00:00:26 pavelpenev: it should have an interest for the "customers". 00:01:14 pavelpenev: and the customers don't necessarily need to be lispers, (unless you're proposing just a lisp library of course). You may propose any application useful to potential "customers", and get enough money to implement it along with all the libraries you need. 00:01:37 ccl on raspbian on qemu-arm: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/raspberrypi/ccl-sur-qemu.html 00:03:59 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:04:44 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:44 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 00:06:01 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:07:04 pjb: if I'm to implement just an app, it might as well be just a business, and not go through bountyoss. Since there is no shortage of things to be done in the lisp open source library realm, I assume theres at least a potential for my work to get sponsored. The question becomes, what are people actually willing to pay for. 00:07:35 The "need" is what I'm trying to identify. 00:12:44 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 00:14:22 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:14:22 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:15:35 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:39 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:07 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 00:17:07 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:21:43 -!- atsidi [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 00:24:07 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.140.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:30 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:09 -!- chturne 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[~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:48:30 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:49:37 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:31 joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.222.79] has joined #lisp 00:52:01 pavelpenev: from the submissions I get on http://want.ogamita.org, the "need" people have is for a lot of money, willing to pay very little money :-) 00:52:07 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:16 (plus some need for sex, also for little money). 00:54:28 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:54:52 pjb: well, that explains why my small town has so many casinos 00:56:41 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:56:41 PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 00:57:00 PuercoPop420 [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 00:57:08 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.41.173.174] has 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[harish@nat/redhat/x-rvghdgokqrdxxkwd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:08 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:53:00 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 03:56:54 spradnyesh [d25e2959@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.94.41.89] has joined #lisp 03:58:23 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 03:58:23 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:58:43 hello :) i have a Q about packages. i'm writing a software which has 3 components A, B and C. A is a collection of util functions of which about 95% are needed by both B and C. But B and C have functionality w/ similar names. Currently i have all of A, B and C in the same package, but i'm not very comfortable w/ it 03:59:35 I had tried to put all of A, B & C in their own packages, but then i got tired of exporting every single function that i added to A. is there a way to export * and then un-export a few? i think that would really solve my problem 04:00:13 currently, i have all of A, B & C in the same package, and have B's functions w/ names like B- and similarly w/ C's functions, but as i said i'm not happy w/ it at all 04:00:30 i'm sure this is an already solved problem. what is the correct approach to take here? 04:00:45 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:32 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:06:42 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:11:59 nezumi74 [~MoMoPi@ool-44c0ca05.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:35 girzel [~user@114.250.132.156] has joined #lisp 04:14:21 -!- pnpuff` is now known as pnpuff 04:14:21 -!- pnpuff [~user@host191-250-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 04:14:21 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 04:16:59 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has joined #lisp 04:20:15 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.99.142] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 04:22:21 -!- nezumi74 [~MoMoPi@ool-44c0ca05.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 04:22:25 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:02 Fullmoon_ [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 04:26:30 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:26:30 -!- Fullmoon_ is now known as Fullmoon 04:27:06 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:27:06 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:27:49 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 04:33:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: If 50 people "/msg fn-troll you need to stop trolling", he will quit trolling forever.] 04:33:31 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 04:37:14 evening 04:38:34 -!- SuperSonicSound [~SuperSoni@gateway/tor-sasl/supersonicsound] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:38:55 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:48:22 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 04:53:41 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@174.52.149.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:50 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.171.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:07 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:55:24 stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has joined #lisp 04:56:55 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:01:00 -!- mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 05:09:36 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 05:10:38 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:22 -!- milanj [~milanj_@91-150-119-244.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:21:51 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:21:58 hello :) i have a Q about packages. i'm writing a software which has 3 components A, B and C. A is a collection of util functions of which about 95% are needed by both B and C. But B and C have functionality w/ similar names. Currently i have all of A, B and C in the same package, but i'm not very comfortable w/ it 05:22:06 I had tried to put all of A, B & C in their own packages, but then i got tired of exporting every single function that i added to A. is there a way to export * and then un-export a few? i think that would really solve my problem 05:22:16 currently, i have all of A, B & C in the same package, and have B's functions w/ names like B- and similarly w/ C's functions, but as i said i'm not happy w/ it at all 05:22:24 i'm sure this is an already solved problem. what is the correct approach to take here? 05:22:30 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:03 You could just write A:Q instead of Q. 05:23:33 Importing is overrated, except for language extensions, imho. 05:23:55 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:24:13 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 05:24:16 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:55 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vqmmojdeuhdibkmj] has joined #lisp 05:25:55 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vqmmojdeuhdibkmj] has quit [Changing host] 05:25:56 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:26:27 Zhivago: that would be even more inconvenient, than to export all Qs. i'm really looking for convenience than for hiding 05:26:58 but having to name functions like A- and B- is something i'm not liking. hence the ask 05:27:45 also, i'd still have to export all Qs; or else use A::Q, instead of A:Q 05:27:49 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:28:14 Well, then you could just combine shadow and use-package ... 05:28:34 -!- rtj_ [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: rtj_] 05:29:22 Zhivago: use-package will import only the symbols that are exported from A, right? as i said more than 95% of A's symbols are needed. so what i'm really looking for is from A export *, and then _unexport_ the 5% that aren't needed 05:29:36 instead of explicitly exporting 95% of the symbols 05:29:44 Why aren't those exported from A? 05:29:47 and there are easily about 100 symbols or so in package A 05:30:03 right now all of A, B and C are in the same package, but i want to change that 05:30:08 so looking for pointers 05:30:44 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-098-076-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:48 So, why aren't those exported from A? 05:30:50 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:31:35 Zhivago: it's a pain (inconvenient) to explicitly list down 95 symbols to export. i am searching if there's an easy way to do it 05:32:06 -!- aclocal is now known as brcfg 05:32:21 So your problem boils down to that you want to use a whole bunch of unexported symbols from another package because it's a nuisance to export them? 05:34:50 Zhivago: all of A, B and C have been authored by me (it's not an external library that is/isn't exporting symbols that i want to use). right now all of A, B & C are in the same package, but that leads me to write B- and C- which i don't like. so i want to put all of A, B & C in their own respective pkgs. but A has a _lot_ of symbols which need to exported and it's inconvenient. 05:35:06 so i'm looking for a way to export _all_ symbols from A, and then _unexport_ a few. and the from B and C use only the exported symbols of A 05:36:18 i want to export them (not access unexported symbols) 05:38:19 it's like blacklisting what i don't want and whitelisting the rest (by default), instead of the other way round (the way pkgs currently work) 05:38:29 wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-149-169.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:41:15 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-170-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:44:03 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:49:43 asvil [~asvil@37.214.66.47] has joined #lisp 05:49:55 disciple [~krishna@117.207.98.231] 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sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 06:30:07 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:37:17 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:37:31 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 06:39:19 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:39:31 -!- ameoba [~sean@c-24-22-33-249.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:40:54 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:40:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:40:55 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:42:55 -!- eni [~eni@95-178-196-129.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:43:00 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 06:43:19 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:44:17 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 06:44:47 -!- auganov [~auganov@81.219.91.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:44:50 LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:45:18 auganov [~auganov@77-254-179-132.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 06:46:29 ehu [~ehuels@089144206079.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:19 abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has joined #lisp 06:54:18 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 06:54:54 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@75-142-48-121.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:58 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:03 <|3b|> spradnyesh: unless your code is very boring or very poorly written, i'd expect more internal symbols than exported ones, once you count argument names, local variables/functions/macros, loop keywords, internal functions/macros, etc 06:57:28 <|3b|> spradnyesh: and that's assuming you already filtered out all the symbols imported from CL 06:58:30 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 06:59:12 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 06:59:20 |3b|: let me give some more details. i have about 5-7 classes in A, each of which have about 15-20 slots, and these classes (and slots) are needed in both B & C 06:59:41 <|3b|> spradnyesh: it is easy to build the list of exports by hand with C-c x in slime though, possibly combined with an emacs macro 06:59:43 for A to be in a different package than B & C, i'd have to export both the class names as well as the slots 07:00:10 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 07:00:14 and every time new slots are added, i have to export them, which is painful 07:00:34 loke_erc [~user@c-1756e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:00:39 |3b|: i'll try that approach. but basically you're saying that i'd have to export manually, right? 07:00:43 <|3b|> see also M-x slime-export-class (don't know if that has a key or not) 07:01:00 <|3b|> i'm saying you /should/ export manually, not that you /have to/ :) 07:01:39 hmmm, thanks :). that helps 07:03:34 |3b|: i tried M-x slime-export-class, and it worked like a charm. thanks a ton! 07:10:01 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:14:32 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@12-143-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 07:17:40 Guest5631 [~trees@218.106.61.222] has joined #lisp 07:20:01 -!- rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: rtj] 07:21:29 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 07:23:18 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:23:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:24:55 -!- Guest5631 [~trees@218.106.61.222] has quit [Quit: ] 07:28:34 -!- p_l [~p_l@2a01:348:195:1:38a6:254e:4d2a:906b] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:52 -!- girzel [~user@114.250.132.156] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:29:15 -!- 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[Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:54:13 Hi 07:55:30 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 07:55:47 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-onojpvwxfghfykuq] has joined #lisp 07:55:54 TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has joined #lisp 07:56:00 Can anyone help with a question regarding lists? 07:56:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:57:42 Ask away 07:58:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:58:51 You can also ask a question regarding arrays 07:59:07 hash tables are out though. We discriminate against those. 07:59:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:00:07 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has joined #lisp 08:00:31 He, thanks, won't touch hash :-). I'm new to lisp and trying to make a function which find an element in a list and returns the element after that. Fx (list 1 2 3 4) , (find 3) => 4… How is this done? 08:02:08 (second (member 3 list)) 08:02:40 Or make it an exercise in recursion and loop over the list that way. 08:03:03 no thanks. I know where to find scheme if I want it 08:03:06 Thanks mal__ that looks so easy! 08:03:09 ;) 08:04:17 mskou72: Take a look at http://clqr.boundp.org/ just thumbing through it you'll find new features you will want to try. 08:04:27 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:04:40 I always forget things like the set functions. 08:04:49 or (loop for (x y nil) on '(1 2 3 4) when (eql x 3) return y) 08:05:51 <|3b|> don't need the NIL there 08:08:11 denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bydwjkeiyciybrin] has joined #lisp 08:11:37 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 08:12:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@216.185.105.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:12:57 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-82.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:34 xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:06 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:18:17 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:19:00 minion: memo for spradnyesh: this is lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language, so why don't you write a program to export your symbols? Use do-symbols. 08:19:01 Remembered. I'll tell spradnyesh when he/she/it next speaks. 08:21:04 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:22:17 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust329.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:24:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:25:16 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has joined #lisp 08:26:14 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-5-171.hdqu1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:26:14 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-5-171.hdqu1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 08:29:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:09 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:30:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:35:08 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:35:59 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:36:49 p_l|home [~p_l@2a01:348:195:1:6c65:8648:ab0c:2d63] has joined #lisp 08:38:07 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:38:48 ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-154-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:25 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:43:41 drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 08:46:59 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:48:06 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has joined #lisp 08:54:15 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:55:36 antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has joined #lisp 08:55:42 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust329.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:55:51 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:04 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:33 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 08:57:00 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:57:16 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 08:58:11 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 09:00:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:27 kanedank [~kanedank@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:01:28 hey how do I search for certain keywords in lisp? what site supports it? right now I'm just trying to find some examples of #'(function) being used 09:04:55 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:04:59 kanedank: depends 09:05:09 kanedank: http://l1sp.org 09:05:31 kanedank: code examples are on http://common-lisp.net/ 09:05:42 pjb: thanks! that works really well 09:06:36 kanedank: I've sometimes used grep in my quicklisp directory for practical examples, it's a little akward but gets relevant results 09:07:04 Indeed. M-x find-grep RET edit the line with ~/quicklisp and the regexp you want. 09:08:24 okay, I will try looking through my quicklisp dir next time 09:10:14 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:11:06 Euthy [~euthy@h77-53-198-56.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:18 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:11:20 are symbol-function and symbol-value often used in cl with setf? 09:11:51 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:12 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 09:12:15 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12:16 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust329.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:31 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:56 kanedank: hmm... haven't seen them much outside of macros 09:13:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13:56 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:58 I was just looking at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/869529/difference-between-set-setq-and-setf-in-common-lisp and http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Common_Lisp/Basic_topics/Functions and it kind of surprised me, because I don't remember them from pcl 09:14:05 They're used indirectly in general. 09:14:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:15:33 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-onojpvwxfghfykuq] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qsyeagjvagqbybzn] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- loke_erc [~user@c-1756e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.214.66.47] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsqpevkmjetxkwd] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzujqecfibwvcfiq] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- benny [~user@i577A86AC.versanet.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-174.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:33 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:34 -!- arrsim [~user@russell.its.unimelb.edu.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:34 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@61.14.141.35] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:34 -!- r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:34 -!- yan_ [~yan@64.22.109.95] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:15:34 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:16:02 Joreji [~thomas@83-029.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:16:39 kanedank: yes, PCL is not a reference: it doesn't explain all the nitty gritty details of CL. Just what you need to start writing practical programs in CL> 09:17:02 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-onojpvwxfghfykuq] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qsyeagjvagqbybzn] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 loke_erc [~user@c-1756e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 asvil [~asvil@37.214.66.47] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzujqecfibwvcfiq] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsqpevkmjetxkwd] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 benny [~user@i577A86AC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-174.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 arrsim [~user@russell.its.unimelb.edu.au] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 jmcphers [~jmcphers@61.14.141.35] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 yan_ [~yan@64.22.109.95] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 09:17:33 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:33 I think Graham's ANSI CL contains some discussion of SET and friends. 09:17:55 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 09:18:24 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-154-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:19:02 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:21:06 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.4] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 09:26:17 ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-154-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.56] has joined #lisp 09:27:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.56] has quit [Changing host] 09:27:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:29:56 ferad [~ferada@dslb-094-219-154-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:50 (member "b" (list "a" "b" "c")) returns NIL, why not ("b" "c")? 09:33:08 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-154-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:33:30 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:33:32 <|3b|> you didn't look for the right "b" 09:34:01 <|3b|> try (member "b" list :test 'string=) 09:34:28 <|3b|> or :test 'equal 09:35:33 Thx 3b, (member "b" (list "a" "b" "c") :test 'equal) did the job, 09:36:56 <|3b|> MEMBER normally compares with EQL, which compares most things by checking to see if they are the same object (it compares numbers and characters of the same type by value though) 09:37:54 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 09:37:54 jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has joined #lisp 09:38:52 makes sense, now :-) 09:38:53 <|3b|> two literal strings with the same contents may or may not be the same object, and strings with same contents you READ or create at runtime will also be different objects,, so you usually want EQUAL or STRING= for strings 09:40:18 jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has joined #lisp 09:42:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:45:01 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:47 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:45:57 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 09:47:41 leoncamel [~user@219.142.131.1] has joined #lisp 09:49:15 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.131.1] has quit [Client Quit] 09:49:39 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:50:07 leoncamel [~user@219.142.131.1] has joined #lisp 09:50:50 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:30 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-243-121.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:52:39 Rajesh_ [~Rajesh@117.203.18.216] has joined #lisp 09:53:44 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:55:03 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-2925078992.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 09:56:12 mskou72: beware of string= et al.: they compare string _designators_, not just strings. 09:56:41 (member "B" '(B "A" "B" "C") :test 'string=) => (b "A" "B" "C") 10:05:37 Thanks! 10:05:47 drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 10:07:03 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 10:08:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-029.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09:30 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:42 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:14 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:25:49 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75da38.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:07 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-230.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:04 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-46-132.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:19 hi 10:31:02 -!- nightfly [sage@serenity.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 10:35:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36:10 jtza8 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[~p_l@91.222.124.6] has joined #lisp 11:01:38 disciple [~krishna@117.207.98.231] has joined #lisp 11:02:47 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-49-147.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:07 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-46-132.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:29 rtj [~rtj@bb220-255-83-99.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:09:31 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-47-248.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:03 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-49-147.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:15:03 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:15:10 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:16 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:43 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:15:58 nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:33 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:19:47 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 11:21:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:26:24 vaus [~vaus@55.Red-79-159-7.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:06 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.209] has joined #lisp 11:30:45 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 11:35:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.2] 11:37:48 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:37 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:47:18 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 11:48:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:49:01 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-138.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:50:10 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:51:43 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:53 _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:06 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 11:57:22 Is it possible to get the result of the test-form in an IF (without putting it in a variable first)? 11:57:48 no 11:58:02 a variety of non standard macros exist for that 11:58:10 anaphoric if, when-let etc 11:58:40 ok, thanks. 11:59:23 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-82.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:59:29 (if x x y) == (or x y) 12:02:48 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:53 chturne [~chturne@host86-150-105-110.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:28 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:03:48 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-150-105-110.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:08 pjb: wouldn't that evaluate 'x' twice in the first case and only once in the second case? 12:05:17 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-xylddqyjnacrvpls] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:05:36 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-jdttujdjguconeob] has joined #lisp 12:05:53 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.163.47] has joined #lisp 12:06:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:08:15 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:08:16 vaus: yes, exactly :-) 12:11:29 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:09 Joreji 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reset by peer] 12:36:03 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:45 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qsyeagjvagqbybzn] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:36:54 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:18 -!- pjb is now known as Guest74472 12:39:58 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:40:38 -!- Guest74472 is now known as pjb`` 12:40:39 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 12:40:46 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 12:42:13 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 12:46:41 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:24 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-onojpvwxfghfykuq] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:51:45 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:53:26 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.98.231] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 12:59:19 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.109] has joined #lisp 13:02:35 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:04:21 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:05:13 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has joined #lisp 13:06:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rmqaqvhznyiumjtf] has joined #lisp 13:12:36 http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/02/olympic-wifi-snatcher/ o lol 13:13:26 Mezon [32645a85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.100.90.133] has joined #lisp 13:13:32 ...wrong channel 13:13:51 ? 13:14:08 but still sorry for that, meant to send it somewhere else:) 13:14:11 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.163.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:15:35 -!- antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:17:13 antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:58 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:22:17 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-245.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:08 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:13 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:55 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 13:29:02 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 13:32:23 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:32:28 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:33 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:34 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:33:34 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 13:37:46 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:37:59 gst_ [~gst@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.17.90] has joined #lisp 13:40:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.34.17.90] has quit [Changing host] 13:40:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:40:27 samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:37 Hello. 13:40:58 -!- samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:42:33 samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:45 Hola 13:42:55 Hi there samuel 13:43:11 Is this lisp-es? 13:43:23 Ah, I see I'm in #lisp ^.^ 13:43:28 samuel__98: no, but there's a #lisp-es. 13:43:47 Sorry, anyways, I'll stay here 13:44:06 can anyone recommend a GUI library for either sbcl or ccl on linux? (i have a large lisp app and want to add a gui on top) 13:44:36 clop: have a look on http://cliki.net/ several GUI libraries are listed there. 13:44:41 http://www.cliki.net/Gtk 13:44:55 http://www.cliki.net/GUI 13:45:03 Yeah, also 13:45:38 CommonQt works pretty well 13:45:42 pjb, right, i'm just wondering which one folks think is good. :) 13:45:46 Does someone here use clisp? 13:47:56 Because when I do (COMPILE-FILE test.lisp) I get 2 files 13:48:46 samuel__98: that is normal. 13:48:48 -!- antonv [2e35c344@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.68] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:49:00 -!- gst_ [~gst@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:49:00 I want a final executable file 13:49:22 samuel__98: compile-file is not the tool for it. 13:49:33 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fcietgyuatoyfmpz] has joined #lisp 13:49:35 Oh, then what is the right tool? 13:49:37 bye for now 13:49:38 samuel__98: i think ext:saveinitmem or similar is what works in clisp. 13:49:45 -!- mskou72 [~martin@0x50a277b6.cpe.ge-0-1-0-1109.rdnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:49:48 Uhw 13:50:17 So what would be the command? 13:50:22 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-17-153.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:23 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fcietgyuatoyfmpz] has quit [Client Quit] 13:50:42 samuel__98: see the documentation for clisp at http://l1sp.org/clisp 13:50:54 Okay 13:50:56 http://www.clisp.org/impnotes.html#image specifically 13:51:17 samuel__98: Common Lisp is not typically used like C, where a compiler eats source code and shits executables. 13:51:33 Hehe, I come from C++ 13:51:39 samuel__98: It's more like an environment that is extended with your own code, and the functionality of that code is invoked from within the environment. 13:51:50 Yeah 13:51:54 I just saw a tutorial 13:52:03 And was searching for a book 13:52:03 You can create executables, but it's not as typical, and not usually as much of a focus. 13:52:31 samuel__98: I wrote a program for SBCL to make it easy to make executables, but it doesn't work on CLISP. it's www.xach.com/lisp/buildapp/ 13:52:40 I should port it to clisp (and ccl, and cmucl, etc) sometime. 13:52:54 Ah 13:52:58 Nice 13:53:01 samuel__98: This is a good book: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 13:53:06 But anyway, 90% of the time I do not use CL to create executables. 13:53:09 Yeah Peter's 13:53:43 Mhm, I'm having some problems with the package manager, brb 13:53:52 incf Xach 13:54:04 This library is good for processing command-line options and generating executables across lisps: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier/software/lisp/clon.php 13:54:17 Mhm 13:54:18 sellout: i especially like the full name of clon 13:55:16 Mhm, I see that book uses lispbox 13:55:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:56:04 But I've been using Emacs for some time now, actually, my IRC client is Emacs, the command to execute it is M-x erc 13:56:19 samuel__98: Lispbox is dead. 13:56:28 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-nyblboefcnuazgqn] has joined #lisp 13:56:33 samuel__98: If you already have Emacs and a Lisp, what you want is Quicklisp. 13:56:40 Ah 13:56:41 (for getting libraries) 13:57:12 Well I don't really know why I need it really 13:57:51 So SLIME is also dead? 13:58:08 samuel__98: Oh no, SLIME is necessary. 13:58:18 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-48-36.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:22 So I need to install SLIME over Emacs 13:58:24 (well, in the sense that not using it would be frustrating) 13:58:40 samuel__98: You can get slime via Quicklisp. 13:58:48 I think  13:59:07 So I'll start getting SLIME 13:59:57 samuel__98: if you don't have Emacs and a Lisp, you also want Emacs, a Lisp, and Quciklisp :) 14:00:01 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 14:00:12 samuel__98: (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") btw 14:00:14 I used CL without slime for years and it didn't bother me 14:00:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:16 dlowe: i've lived without a car for years and it didn't bother me either, but i wouldn't want to miss it now. 14:01:20 I already have Emacs, so I need SLIME and QuickLisp? ( I guess a 'Lisp' is a Lisp distribution?) 14:01:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:01:29 milanj [~milanj_@91-150-119-244.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:01:43 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:09 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:02:31 madnificent: I'm just saying, using your analogy, that people might not want to learn to drive at birth 14:02:53 samuel__98 quicklisp downloads lisp libraries. (ql:quicklisp :some-lib) will download some-lib and all the libraries it depends on 14:02:54 dlowe: emacs doesn't seem like the best first editor to use either :) 14:03:04 samuel__98: yes, a lisp distribution. like SBCL, CCL, Clisp, ... 14:03:27 I've used Emacs for 1 year now, in fact, it's my IRC client 14:03:38 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.205.238] has joined #lisp 14:04:33 dlowe: point being, even though you may not miss it when you haven't had it yet, it may still be something good to have 14:04:33 madnificent: I agree with that either. 14:04:40 madnificent: er, too 14:05:25 people who want to learn common lisp might not want to start shaving editor yaks 14:05:40 dlowe: however, if lisp can easily be used without emacs as help, then perhaps our push for users towards embracing a new editor may not be the best one 14:05:41 yeah 14:06:04 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rmqaqvhznyiumjtf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:08:13 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:08:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:10:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 14:11:09 I don't think there's any sensible lisp support in editors outside of Emacs and ViM 14:13:28 bare minimum hilighting doesn't make a good support. And the other swank clients are centered about outdated swank used by clojure 14:13:35 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:13:55 -!- NimeshNeema [u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pzujqecfibwvcfiq] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:14:29 -!- denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bydwjkeiyciybrin] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:14:52 There isn't any sensible C support either from editors outside language-specific IDEs 14:14:59 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thsqpevkmjetxkwd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:15:24 dlowe: it's much easier with C because quite a lot of bigger editors support thinks like ctags 14:15:39 and by bigger I don't mean ViM scale 14:15:40 but those editors tend to use the standard word processing interface, so there's less hassle to learn 14:16:22 -!- tsuru```` is now known as tsuru` 14:16:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@89.201.99.128] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 14:17:39 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:17:40 -!- Rajesh_ [~Rajesh@117.203.18.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving to Quit] 14:19:33 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evbtchjgrznquapr] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:19:38 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cldidmzqkwfrbesa] has joined #lisp 14:19:49 -!- clintm [u1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cdmftiktpvbrkhsc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:22:32 -!- dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dnccflshpzdajfuh] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:22:45 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 14:22:58 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23:18 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rhtgwhnxrfgdetif] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:23:33 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-245.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:24:14 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 14:24:32 -!- sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:24:45 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 14:24:47 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-99-176.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:25:40 the usual response to that used to be that cusp would allow users to use eclipse for lisp development. sadly, i haven't had much luck with it. another complaint often given, is that the backtraces are too complex. 14:25:53 *madnificent* doesn't mind them, they're quite helpful 14:25:55 -!- varjagg [u4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqdihypwjqfzebqx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:26:03 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:56 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cldidmzqkwfrbesa] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:28:07 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:28 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-whglboiwwsfcwhad] has joined #lisp 14:28:59 mike4 [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 14:30:20 dude, wtf, i got my backslash back! i don't get it! 14:30:31 didn't do anything ..... 14:31:43 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:32:30 -!- samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:37 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:32:55 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-243-121.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:32:58 samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:58 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zkjowwcybeyqgshh] has joined #lisp 14:33:02 Back 14:33:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.51.243] has joined #lisp 14:33:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.51.243] has quit [Changing host] 14:33:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:04 -!- samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:19 madnificent: I don't think Eclipse counts as "light" environment 14:37:35 definitely not a hip one. And that's kind of the stuff that drives adoption these days 14:38:03 samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:29 What about CL development in Light Table? 14:38:57 Doing M-x slime yields: file 'lisp' doesn't exist 14:39:21 sellout: The concept is IMHO great. Chosen execution method not so much 14:39:26 (On emacs) 14:39:42 samuel__98: You didn't configure your slime to use your implementation, so it tried the default 14:39:52 Ah 14:40:07 samuel__98: for a quick try, do C-u M-x slime 14:40:22 I don't have any implementation ^.^ 14:40:27 heh 14:40:33 which OS? 14:40:37 Linux 14:40:38 (and architecture) 14:40:54 Debian GNU/Linux i386 14:41:03 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:41:06 grab SBCL then, but *NOT* from debian repo 14:41:15 Mhm 14:41:25 what lisp? 14:41:30 Okay then 14:42:07 binaries from sbcl.org will be good enough for start 14:42:13 Okay 14:42:26 dlowe: how's the repo going? 14:43:02 Is QuickLisp on the debian repositories? 14:43:13 Can't find it 14:43:16 samuel__98: no. 14:43:28 Oh 14:43:56 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ shows how to install (the bit in the green box) 14:43:58 samuel__98: quicklisp is installed in your home directory 14:44:06 see Xach's link 14:44:08 rpg [~rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:16 Thanks :) 14:44:18 Quicklisp uses the Google definition of beta ;) 14:45:03 the hip web2.0 definition ;) 14:45:12 denysonique [u484@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipfwmriosgvgpzyt] has joined #lisp 14:45:29 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:11 -!- samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:02 samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:22 Slime works now, though, with lispbox it looked prettier 14:50:06 Because of Clozure probably 14:50:12 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:50:49 dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-apqzdoueesrlbfwu] has joined #lisp 14:50:56 lcc [~lcc-pi@206.29.182.232] has joined #lisp 14:51:14 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:51:26 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@206.29.182.232] has quit [Client Quit] 14:51:47 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjizbvwcasowpmdr] has joined #lisp 14:51:47 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjizbvwcasowpmdr] has quit [Changing host] 14:51:47 Gurragchaa [u6439@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 14:51:47 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Changing host] 14:51:47 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjizbvwcasowpmdr] has joined #lisp 14:52:07 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 14:52:35 is (ql:quickload "g-lib-cffi") the right way to get gtk-cffi installed? 14:53:05 samuel__98 it probably had something like this in .emacs: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf slime-banner)) 14:53:06 hmm... a bit of sbcl internals question/ideas - precise control stack tracing + immediate doubles, by sacrificing a register for "pointer/not-pointer/immediate-double" tag? 14:53:23 clop: gtk-cffi does not actually work in quicklisp. 14:53:33 clop: its supporting libraries do, but not the library itself 14:54:02 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:20 Xach, ah thanks 14:56:20 Xach: buried. I haven't done any hacking in months. 14:56:20 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:56:32 dlowe: but...but why 14:56:53 kennyd: Thanks, but I already installed SLIME succesfully, along with SBCL 14:57:05 I'm now installing QuickLisp 14:57:18 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:24 Xach: 12 month old :p 14:58:33 even plants can procreate! contributing to lisp has real value! 14:58:45 samuel__98 that line doesn't install SLIME, it's sets some options 14:58:52 sbcl is pretty awesome. was poking around in some of the extensions recently and was pleased to see unix system calls. 14:59:44 the syscalls still go through libc wrappers, though, iirc 14:59:45 Xach: keep this in mind: he'll start out learning lisp. 14:59:58 so really I'm contributing to lisp in a big way 15:00:02 ok 15:00:07 the foom of the next generation 15:01:28 p_l|home: aw. i'll have to dig in more and see if that matters for the project i had in mind. 15:02:21 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:27 well, I was thinking of using CL for gamedev so I was looking into speeding some things up 15:02:32 kennyd: Ah thanks, let me try it ouy 15:02:35 out* 15:03:04 p_l|home: game dev on *nix? 15:03:11 multiplatform 15:03:14 OpenGL etc. 15:03:37 -!- samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:39 you should /join #lispgames 15:03:43 p_l|home: i think some german hackers did this 15:03:56 p_l|home: it's rather popular for java devs, which inherently makes it a well-adopted platform, apparently. i prefer it over emacs for java development (though that may be because of cedet) 15:04:19 j_king: I was there before, might join again when I get time to work on code 15:04:23 samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:30 cool 15:04:36 (and preferably hijack a gpu that can run modern GL code, aka something non-Intel) 15:04:38 p_l|home: #lispgames isn't angry when idlers join 15:04:42 kennyd: Thanks, exactly what I meant :) 15:04:55 welcome 15:05:03 madnificent: I'm on temporary irc client because my laptop reaches 100 centigrade, and shutdown from time to time 15:05:31 p_l|home: znc is your friend 15:05:56 dlowe: *both* of my shells that provided that functionality for me are dead for the moment :) 15:06:14 one is dead semi-permanently, the other is waiting for stable internet link 15:07:01 as for the GC stuff, I was considering taking it for honours project (if I pass the exams...) 15:07:35 i was thinking of a distributed in-memory data store based on an entity-component model and wanted to fsync the transaction log periodically (or on every update if so configured) 15:08:13 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:08:16 well, my ideas for GC involved exposing some hooks 15:08:17 instead of flushing snapshots 15:10:28 j_king: in lisp? 15:10:57 madnificent: investigating that possibility, would be preferred over C ;) 15:11:09 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@smtpbt.pramati.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:11:25 could be cool 15:12:26 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129200123.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 15:12:35 hey 15:12:50 anyone here knows linear partial information 15:13:58 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:14:06 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 15:14:26 <|3b|> p_l|home: i wouldn't worry about speed of ffi unless you have some unusual requirements 15:14:45 I was thinking of GC speed and arithmethic 15:14:56 <|3b|> yeah, GC is a bit more of a problem :( 15:15:10 <|3b|> properly used, SBCL is pretty good at math though 15:15:16 well, less so arithmethic and more cache efficiency 15:15:39 recently managed to see a glimpse into .NET gc, has some interesting choices 15:16:09 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:16:41 for example, nursery size is based on L2 cache size 15:17:55 modification of older generation is recorded by mutator (not sure how SBCL does it - in mutator or by page faults?) 15:18:23 Will "(format nil "string")" send it "string" to stderr? 15:18:34 Sgeo_ [~Sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:37 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18:38 \it* 15:18:46 <|3b|> NIL means 'print to string' for format 15:18:58 Uh? 15:19:04 <|3b|> FORMAT doesn't use the normal definition of 'stream designator' 15:19:12 samuel__98: no, it won't. (format nil ...) does not print anything, and it returns a string. 15:19:21 Ah 15:19:31 So T will send it to stdout? 15:19:37 yes 15:19:38 <|3b|> clhs format 15:19:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 15:19:42 to *standard-output* 15:19:43 samuel__98: it will send it to *standard-output* 15:19:46 whatever it is bound to 15:19:59 Okay, I'll check that link 15:20:22 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:20:29 <|3b|> clhs glossary stream designator 15:20:30 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for glossary stream designator. 15:21:12 *|3b|* wonders what the correct syntax for that is 15:22:08 <|3b|> clhs glossary/stream designator 15:22:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#stream_designator 15:22:14 <|3b|> ah, like that i guess 15:24:04 <|3b|> most things that print aside from format use stream designators, which interpret T and NIL differently from FORMAT (and don't accept strings at all) 15:25:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:27:05 -!- jjkola_work [c064782a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.120.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:29:58 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:36:05 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:36:27 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:36:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-243-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:26 disciple [~krishna@117.207.98.231] has joined #lisp 15:38:54 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:09 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:41:37 Does SLIME allow comments? 15:41:43 ; Comments 15:41:48 samuel__98: Yep. 15:42:44 -!- lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:32 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:45:22 -!- samuel__98 [~user@112.Red-79-151-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:35 shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.77.16] has joined #lisp 15:45:42 anyone read land of lisp?i got a question 15:46:29 ,ask 15:46:32 shinta42: I browsed it. 15:48:20 sellout+pjb:http://pastebin.com/qjxKTtRf 15:49:05 k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.235] has joined #lisp 15:50:10 shinta42: I read that is "the garden is west of the living room, accessed via the door" and "the attic is upstairs of the living room, accessed via the ladder" 15:50:45 It sounds like you go east (through the door) from the garden to get to the living room. 15:50:57 shinta42: in adventure games, nothing says it's an euclidian universe, and nothing says that even if it's an euclidian universe, that the paths are line segments. 15:51:20 sellout:oh!....that make sense then.....shouldn't be read as a east door..... 15:51:30 I've played in a 3d virtual program that has worlds that aren't euclidean 15:52:10 sellout:ur way of reading it make sense i guess....but this kind of code is prune to confusion..lol 15:52:15 shinta42: Yeah, I could see it either way, but since the attic definition can only be read the one way, it forces that view on the other definitions. 15:52:32 shinta42: and otherwise, I dont' see why you couldn't have garden W<->E living-room and the attic above the living-room. 15:53:07 pjb:its just the code in book a little confusing...i am sure there r clearer way to describe them 15:54:32 And in games, the passageways are not always bidirectional. 15:54:42 So the graph is not undirected. 15:54:49 It's the tridirectional ones you have to watch out for. 15:56:05 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.131.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:24 leoncamel [~user@219.142.131.1] has joined #lisp 15:56:26 sellout:wait...a garden is east of living room though 15:57:07 sellout:then it should be garden east door attic upstairs ladder 15:57:59 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:05 shinta42: furthermore, the garden can be all around the house, so you can go to the garden moving East, walk around in the garden, and come back to the house still moving East (using another door). 15:58:40 pbj:yah but there should be a uniform format otherwise its hard to understand 15:59:49 sellout:only way it make sense is this..a garden edge, which living-room is to its west, can be accessed through a door. 16:00:28 hmm but it wouldn't work for attic again 16:00:34 ....aargh 16:00:47 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:01:07 shinta42: I don't think so  if you're specifying the living room, you're going to describe everything relative to it (you see a door to the west and a ladder leading upstairs.) 16:01:36 sellout:but accourding to the map..isnt garden east of living room 16:01:45 sellout: and the door east of living room, west of garden 16:02:30 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-195-36.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:35 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Quit: IRC FTW] 16:02:43 shinta42: Does the map have a compass on it? 16:02:58 In the original, there is no compass: http://www.lisperati.com/casting_spels.pdf 16:03:17 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:03:39 sellout:so u saying it's not oriented to the north? 16:03:48 shinta42: Exactly. 16:03:58 this is very confusing then 16:03:58 lol 16:04:42 From a few pages later: "(THERE IS A DOOR GOING WEST FROM HERE. THERE IS A STAIRWAY GOING UPSTAIRS FROM 16:04:42 HERE.)" 16:05:22 its wrong then 16:05:28 I guess he changed stairway to ladder for the book. 16:05:31 should be there is a door going east from here 16:05:38 shinta42: No. 16:05:46 shinta42: Ignore the map. 16:06:09 in the living room, there is a door going west and a ladder going up. 16:06:09 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 16:06:13 -!- TimKack [~user@213.208.236.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:19 the map is wrong? 16:06:23 in the map the door is on the east 16:06:25 dnolen [~user@12.130.125.21] has joined #lisp 16:06:27 of living room 16:06:34 map is upside down? 16:06:35 lol 16:07:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:07:03 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:07:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-66-109.cust.tele2.kz] has joined #lisp 16:07:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-66-109.cust.tele2.kz] has quit [Changing host] 16:07:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:07:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:07:50 -!- ferad [~ferada@dslb-094-219-154-036.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:06 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:20 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:09:07 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-162-48-36.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:11 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:11:20 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.125.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:15 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.114] has joined #lisp 16:14:07 -!- wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-149-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:20 shinta42: The map is not upside-down  its orientation isn't specified. You are just _assuming_ that north is up. 16:15:00 That said, I think Conrad should flip that image to align with assumptions. But it's not strictly wrong. 16:15:56 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-149-169.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:14 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:44 anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:17:45 stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.143.92] has joined #lisp 16:18:15 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:18:54 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.235] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:45 Why am I so interested in Tcl? 16:20:34 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:35 why should be #lisp interested in that? 16:22:59 Tcl sort of feels, well, not quite as powerful as Lisp, but closer than many other languages 16:23:12 Although it's more run-time stuff than transforming stuff 16:23:32 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 16:23:42 I suspect tcl might more relation to FOrth 16:23:44 *Forth 16:24:16 Sgeo_: http://philip.greenspun.com/tcl/introduction.adp - see "Lisp Without a Brain" 16:24:28 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 16:24:55 nha [~prefect@g225072034.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:16 At this point, I do have more experience writing Tcl than Lisp (1 vs 0 actually useful programs) 16:29:09 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:29:57 I solved all my 'android' and lisp problems... I installed linux debian on top of android and have built all there lisp emacs gcc everything... 16:30:18 Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.163.47] has joined #lisp 16:30:46 is your goal just to build them? 16:30:58 and use them, they run perfect 16:31:09 on the small samsung phone 16:31:23 shinta42: of course, it's easier to draw maps when lying down under the floor and transfer the real landscape it to the map. 16:31:42 francogrex: so, can you make a graphical application? 16:31:44 stassats: because of Ltk. 16:32:18 I could, right now it's the shell but I can easily have the KDE running there as well 16:32:22 *Sgeo_* coughs 16:33:04 I spent three sleepless nights to finally arrive at this great discovery/invention ;) 16:33:19 I will share it soon 16:33:32 pjb, does Ltk use ttk or the unthemed widgets? 16:33:48 why would anyone want to run KDE on a phone? 16:34:09 why would anyone want lisp on the phone? yet they want 16:34:30 k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.235] has joined #lisp 16:34:38 i want lisp on the phone if i'll be able to write graphical applications 16:34:39 Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:35:13 commonqt can potentially work on android, i haven't got around to making it 16:35:37 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-143-213.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:36:30 abcl + swing perhaps? 16:36:40 I guess maybe dalvik doesn't swing. 16:36:43 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 16:37:00 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:37:12 besides, it opens up all the limitations of the droid, apt-get, build from sources etc.... no java shit required 16:37:24 stassats: Qt on Android is misunderstanding 16:37:38 misunderstanding? 16:37:44 scharan: ABCL doesn't run on DVM yet, Swing is absent from Android 16:37:54 admit that my discovery is great and you are all green with envy! 16:38:03 Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has joined #lisp 16:38:09 francogrex: what discovery? 16:38:36 p_l|home: Right. Getting abcl running seems a nicer way to get access to the other dalvik GUI tools there are. I just don't know the name. No biggie. 16:38:36 *francogrex* is thinking of building a statue for himself in the middle of Times Sqaure 16:38:44 stassats: the app will be heavier, less compatible, standing out (in bad way, like direct copies of PhoneGap apps from iOS), etc. etc. 16:39:00 p_l|home: i don't care? 16:39:31 stassats: you also forgo a lot of optimizations that make the GUI run smooth without burning your hand or depleting battery in 10 minutes 16:39:48 native apps can access the gui stuff somehow, can't they? 16:40:01 foom: only through JNI 16:40:01 Sgeo_: No idea. 16:40:20 Sgeo_: I tried ltk once a long time ago. Never had to write a Lisp UI since then. 16:40:30 p_l|home: don't care about that either 16:40:39 Nowadays all users interfaces go thru the web. 16:41:12 foom: it's not a problem when you're making something that doesn't need to use the normal UI (mostly games), because native code gets GLES access, and since 2.3 also direct APIs for input etc. 16:41:36 oh, right, the only thing you can do from NDK directly is draw pixels or opengl. 16:42:05 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:11 foom: 2.3 added input, sensors and some other bits 16:42:39 at least NDK supports exceptions these days. :P 16:43:20 not sure if I'd want to use them ;) 16:44:06 as for other interesting approaches, one could abstract the Java part, possibly autogenerating some of it, and write code in Lisp - like MonoDroid does 16:45:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:46:07 -!- shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.77.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:48:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:34 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:19 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:51:25 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 16:51:57 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:56:07 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:26 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 16:56:26 -!- rpg [~rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 16:56:48 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.160] has joined #lisp 16:58:28 paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-200.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:41 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.98.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:27 shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.71.2] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 disciple [~krishna@117.207.98.231] has joined #lisp 17:04:15 kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has joined #lisp 17:05:34 Lisp without a Brain. wow. What a read. 17:06:30 nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@123.201.64.71] has joined #lisp 17:06:43 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:35 fsmunoz [~user@bl7-99-229.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:10:08 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:12:52 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:23 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@123.201.64.71] has quit [Quit: snooze] 17:27:22 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@89.130.60.29] has quit [] 17:30:51 -!- p_l|home [~p_l@91.222.124.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:37 SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #lisp 17:34:19 -!- shinta42 [~shinta42@123.120.71.2] has quit [] 17:34:19 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.114] has joined #lisp 17:34:57 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:39:36 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:40:23 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:44:52 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.5.223.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:46:14 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:52 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-nyblboefcnuazgqn] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:52:18 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:48 eni [~eni@95-178-196-129.dsl.optinet.hr] has joined #lisp 17:55:57 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 17:57:37 -!- leoncamel [~user@219.142.131.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:47 pjb: where is the code you adapted from my scratch package system? 18:00:20 the package*.lisp files in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader 18:00:50 thanks. 18:01:42 It's actually rather hairy to use it as I intended, that is, to read lisp sources without poluting the host packages, because of read-time side effects (reader macros, etc). It's really hard to process lisp code without loading it. 18:02:37 pjb: i wonder what % of real, in-the-wild CL code adds reader macros. 18:03:08 i can think of some notable projects but i wonder how much space they occupy in the CL code universe 18:03:13 Well, not only defining user macros, but mere use, of things like #+/#-. 18:03:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:03:30 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 18:03:45 Any significant piece of cl code is bound to have a ton of them, along with #. 18:03:51 -!- slyrus__ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:05 ah right 18:04:22 well, i'm fond of using #\( reader macro 18:04:34 Yes, this one is not too much of a problem. 18:04:53 ynniv [~ynniv@204.9.220.50] has joined #lisp 18:05:23 #\ is side-effect free, right? 18:05:33 Yes. 18:05:33 space? 18:05:36 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:44 The #\# #\\ dispatching reader macro :-) 18:06:04 stassats: sharpsign-backslash in general 18:06:16 pjb: minor typo in the symbol defclass 18:06:25 pjb: :initarg :plisp for the plist slot 18:06:41 clhs #\ 18:06:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dha.htm 18:07:12 Right :-) 18:07:14 Thanks. 18:07:52 reader-macro pages could use a title too, i guess 18:08:00 clhs 2.4.8.1 18:08:00 Sharpsign Backslash: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dha.htm 18:08:48 right now only pages referred by chapter numbers have titles 18:08:56 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:53 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:01 Xach: patch pushed. 18:11:31 while we're talking about reader macros, is there a better feature test that is always false than (not common-lisp)? 18:11:39 pjb, you have a lowercase letter 'i' in the abbreviation "ASCII" in the package description in cons-to-ascii.lisp. 18:11:40 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:11:48 How could you make such a mistake? 18:11:49 jasom: #-() 18:12:02 wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-112-170.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:12:08 sorry, #-(or) 18:12:23 stassats: thanks 18:12:37 jasom, #+#:ignore , or replace 'ignore' with whatever word you like to document why it's commented out. 18:13:04 jasom: and it's really confusing, (or) is false, so #+(or) if you want to exclude something 18:13:38 Quadrescence: thanks, corrected, patch pushed. 18:13:57 Quadrescence: I made the mistake because I don't use emacs to its full potential :-( 18:14:38 pjb, ha, I was only teasing (ha ha only serious teasing). 18:14:47 Quadrescence: wow, that's really obvious in hindsight 18:15:03 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-149-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:15:04 I tend to use #+(and) and #-(and), and there's not often confusion possible, because slime colorize read-suppressed forms. 18:15:21 Quadrescence: Sure, but still, it was a typo :-) 18:15:38 some people are afraid of slime 18:16:37 stassats: If you're not an emacs user, it feels weird to write an IDE inside your editor 18:16:54 Well, they try to write editors inside IDEs 18:17:02 haha 18:17:13 pjb: and they fairly universally suck 18:17:19 t 18:17:32 and so we get yate. YetAnotherTextEditor. 18:17:37 jasom: IDE is ultimately about editing, i see nothing weird about it 18:17:42 nerds can be a bunch of navel gazers. 18:18:08 the same goes to IRC, i use emacs to type this message 18:18:27 stassats: IDE is ultimately about developing software, of which editing is a very small part. 18:18:35 all that is needed, is to make emacs bootable. 18:18:43 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:55 and voila. the ultimate lisp machine will be born. 18:19:06 bjorkintosh: yep, emacs used to be an OS without a good editor, but thanks to "evil" it now has a good editor 18:19:29 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-236-74.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:28 this turned to nonsense pretty quickly 18:20:50 Fortunately Lisp is more about editing S-expressions than it is about editing text, so I find text editors to be a poor choice for writing Lisp. 18:21:07 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:29 Quadrescence, what would you recommend? 18:21:58 An S-expression editor of course, like paredit. 18:22:15 icheishvili [~Adium@denver.beatport.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:45 Is there a way to perform recursion with (apply without resorting to a Y combinator? 18:23:27 use labels. 18:23:55 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:24:07 Quadrescence, interesting. is it a standard extension? 18:24:10 or must it be installed? 18:24:19 bjorkintosh, must be installed (easily) 18:24:46 sykopomp: thanks, i'll look into that approach 18:26:49 -!- paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has quit [Quit: paul0] 18:26:56 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:18 pjb, I'm waiting for you to hack out an ASCII(/Unicode) math typesetter. 18:28:01 he's no marc battyani 18:28:15 Yes, that'd be interesting, but I don't think I'll do one. Knuth's typesetting's so nice, it's hard to beat it. 18:29:25 bjorkintosh: you can install or refine one: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/sedit/index.html 18:30:04 Quadrescence, an old competitor for that exists in nroff! 18:30:10 Of course, it certainly wouldn't act as a replacement, but ascii math is useful for computer algebra/terminal interaction. Also, generating nice TeX is difficult. 18:30:15 bjorkintosh, indeed, eqn! 18:30:30 nothing to see here. nothing to re-invent. 18:31:01 perhaps an upgrade to terminal is in order, for algebraic interaction? 18:31:31 Well, IMO you can only obtain a good system if you have a stylus input for mathematical formulae. The system would have to recognize hand driven formulas and beautify them, plus implement mathematically consistent editing. 18:32:00 or. again. use apl. 18:32:05 at least, the notation. 18:32:09 it was very well thought out. 18:32:12 Yeah, possibly. Mathematica has something, but that's closed source/proprietary. Raymond Toy was trying to make something that interacted with Maxima, using CLIM (using CLIM presentations to select mathematical objects). wxMaxima is okay, but is pretty Maxima specific. 18:32:15 nothing new to invent at all! 18:32:34 (or apl) 18:32:52 lcc [~lcc-pi@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 18:33:14 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:18 Like the psychohistory mathematical rooms of Trantor. 18:33:44 they liked tablets. 18:33:47 *lacked. 18:34:08 Well, psychohistory formulas are large, so it'd be painful with a tablet. 18:34:26 ah, Azimov. 18:34:33 yeah? i would like to see a page of that, pjb :) 18:34:50 -!- mike4 [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:41 bjorkintosh, APL is entirely irrelevant to this conversation, really. That is a programming syntax with some symbols inspired by math, but it is nowhere near a replacement or alternative syntax for mainstream mathematics. 18:36:04 Quadrescence, you have no idea why the notation was created then, it seems. 18:36:07 kirin` [~kirin@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:19 none whatsoever. 18:36:25 matlab, octave? (I know nothing about them expect for their names) 18:36:56 bjorkintosh, It was created as a notation for math but it wasn't successful. 18:37:17 by whose standards did it fail? popular opinion? 18:37:59 By popular usage. 99% of published mathematical syntax does not use it, so I consider it an unsuccessful attempt. 18:38:01 what good is a notation which nobody uses or understands? 18:38:58 it wasn't merely a notation. it was an executable notation. much like ... you know, S-Expressions. 18:39:15 that it failed to garner attention from the population at large, does in no way imply it was a bad idea. 18:39:27 lispers of all people, should grok this. 18:39:31 sigjuice [~sigjuice@184-106-98-73.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:42 bjorkintosh, Being an S-expression doesn't imply being executable. 18:39:50 fair enough. but you get my point. 18:39:54 should we converse in lojban then? 18:40:10 bjorkintosh, How do we express non-constructive mathematics then, or declarative knowledge, with strictly "executable notation"? 18:40:11 human languages are not completely logical. 18:40:25 -!- kirin` [~kirin@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:40:52 Quadrescence, it being executable was a beneficial side effect. not the primary reason for its creation. 18:40:55 logic most often is not the right tool for human matters 18:41:33 kirin` [~kirin@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 Fare [~Fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:11 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:12 -!- kirin` [~kirin@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:46:25 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-63-88.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:47:39 kirin` [~kirin@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:49 nowhereman [~pierre@2001:660:2402:14:76de:2bff:fe41:2f1] has joined #lisp 18:52:52 -!- kirin` [~kirin@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:01 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:13 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-63-88.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 18:57:23 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:02 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:46 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:35 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@201.7.186.67] has joined #lisp 19:05:18 abeaumont [~Alfredo@186.Red-88-8-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:12 abeaumont_ [~Alfredo@186.Red-88-8-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:13 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@186.Red-88-8-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:49 -!- abeaumont_ is now known as abeaumont 19:13:26 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:40 -!- eni [~eni@95-178-196-129.dsl.optinet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:14 _travis_2 [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:11 -!- _travis_ [~nonya@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:48 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: pa pa] 19:17:50 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-2-5.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:24 -!- vaus [~vaus@55.Red-79-159-7.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: vaus] 19:30:10 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:31:51 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-68-81-138-209.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:33:59 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@2001:660:2402:14:76de:2bff:fe41:2f1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:34:28 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 19:34:42 hey, where can I find a good example/cookbook of compiling programs with ecl? 19:34:53 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:35:05 I'm not a c person, so I'm not really sure where to start 19:35:06 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:35:43 kanedank: what about the ecl documentation? 19:36:08 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:36:34 http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ecl/The-compiler.html 19:37:10 Notice how it's exactly the same as in any other CL implementation, since it's standardized by the ANSI Common Lisp Programming Language Standard. 19:37:17 (compile-file "file.lisp") 19:38:38 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 19:40:08 mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 19:40:17 http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/ch24.html 19:40:34 http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/ch32.html 19:40:43 atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has joined #lisp 19:42:25 ngz [~user@235.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:28 tijn [~tijn@62.207.190.85] has joined #lisp 19:43:57 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 19:43:58 -!- disciple [~krishna@117.207.98.231] has quit [Quit: zzzZZZ] 19:45:51 -!- tijn [~tijn@62.207.190.85] has quit [Client Quit] 19:45:57 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@59.92.163.47] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:46:14 tijn [~tijn@62.207.190.85] has joined #lisp 19:46:52 -!- tijn [~tijn@62.207.190.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:37 Forty-3 [~seana11@198.24.31.70] has joined #lisp 19:48:58 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 19:49:32 tijn [~tijn@62.207.190.85] has joined #lisp 19:54:07 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has left #lisp 19:54:10 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:58:21 p_l|home [~p_l@2a01:348:195:1:4cec:9949:1ba3:e779] has joined #lisp 20:01:22 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:02:22 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 20:03:19 -!- auganov [~auganov@77-254-179-132.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:03:35 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-63-88.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:04:13 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:04:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:59 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-164-66.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:33 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:46 ASau [~user@89-178-164-66.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:07:29 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:10:48 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:44 anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 20:13:20 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: camp] 20:18:03 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@83.240.225.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:20:11 dmx [~dmx@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:12 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:23:16 whicling [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has joined #lisp 20:23:46 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:03 -!- mike4_ [~mike4_@gateway/tor-sasl/mike4/x-38362156] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24:03 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24:21 -!- tijn [~tijn@62.207.190.85] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:26:42 -!- anon119 [~bman@12.104.144.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:27 pjb: I guess I thought that there might be something like make or something which looks at the asd and figures out how to compile the entire project? something like quickload that auto compiles it to c? 20:28:23 -!- Mezon [32645a85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.100.90.133] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:28:35 kanedank: that would be asdf 20:28:48 oh, you mean ecl 20:28:53 yes, asdf. 20:30:36 snearch [~snearch@f053007187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:02 disciple [~krishna@117.207.98.231] has joined #lisp 20:31:19 rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 20:33:29 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 20:35:39 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-hvyxcirydvimxqao] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:36:03 Hi guys, which (free software) CL implementation do you use for development with SLIME and why that one? I used SBCL until recently but package redefinitions seem to be painful there and I thought about switching to CLISP. 20:36:47 rosario: ccl clisp sbcl ecl etc. 20:37:05 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 20:37:07 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:08 pjb: So you switch between them all the time? 20:38:44 Depending on the project and what I'm doing. 20:39:00 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:39:01 C-- M-x slime RET 20:39:02 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-utlaopnmqmjyzkqu] has joined #lisp 20:40:10 -!- abeaumont [~Alfredo@186.Red-88-8-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:40:39 rosario: I mostly use CCL (but I work for them), sometimes SBCL, and the rest when I am testing libraries. 20:41:54 sellout: ccl used to ignore slime-interrupt, is this normal? 20:42:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-138.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43:20 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 20:43:36 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:44:09 rosario: I think it only happens when running code wrapped in CCL:WITHOUT-INTERRUPTS 20:44:21 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:10 rosario: sbcl and ccl are my two main ones; I use ecl to test, as it seems to be the most anal about what code it accepts 20:50:55 note that CCL also blocks interrupts in the cleanup forms in unwind-protect 20:51:31 (unwind-protect (print "yay") (loop (print "Bwahaha, try to C-c C-c out of THIS one!"))) :( 20:52:06 -!- Scheisselstadt [Scheissels@204.12.223.123] has quit [Quit: GeekBouncer - http://geekbouncer.co.uk] 20:54:03 compare to (unwind-protect (print "yay") (print "might be executed") (print "might never be executed"))... There's just no winning this one 20:55:26 pkhuong: the former is a big loss if your main reason for interrupting is to make things dead when there's nothing else you can do (like send a shutdown request) 20:55:46 sykopomp: I use "kill" for that 20:55:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:14 jasom: you can't destroy threads if you can't interrupt them. 20:56:32 sykopomp: kill the whole process, you can nearly always do that 20:56:37 sykopomp: kill 'em all? 20:56:50 nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure 20:57:38 well, sure, you can shut down the whole lisp. 20:59:37 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.143.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:01:23 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.84.4] has joined #lisp 21:03:53 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-utlaopnmqmjyzkqu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:04:19 abeaumont [~Alfredo@186.Red-88-8-236.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:47 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:42 -!- pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:39 -!- kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13:00 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13:19 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-63-88.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:17:08 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:17:44 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:18:23 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:02 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:23:00 -!- kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:19 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:39 francogrex [~user@109.130.13.107] has joined #lisp 21:23:59 kirin` [telex@xn--phnix-ibb.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:16 Kenjin [~josesanto@a89-155-149-57.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:24:28 did anyone try building sbcl using ecl? 21:25:55 francogrex: why are you asking? 21:26:13 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-243-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26:26 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust329.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:28:30 I try to get a binary with apt get but there was none and when I downloaded binaries (linux x86) on the android it didn't execute 21:28:58 I thought of building from src 21:30:01 how do you expect linux-x86 binaries to work on android-arm? 21:30:15 besides, SBCL is not ported to ARM 21:30:39 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-71-238-24-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:30:43 nor to android 21:31:26 stassats: I explained earlier that my system is: Linux localhost 2.6.35.7 #1 PREEMPT Tue Sep 27 15:10:11 KST 2011 armv6l GNU/Linux 21:32:03 that doesn't change my reply a bit 21:32:07 anything that runs on debian 21:32:11 it does 21:32:33 francogrex: x86 machine language doesn't work so good on an ARM machine. :) 21:32:33 francogrex: SBCL is not ported to ARM 21:32:55 whatever OS you run on it 21:33:39 feel free to port it 21:34:34 and ecl is ported? emacs is ported on arm? 21:34:56 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving, leaving, gone...] 21:34:58 ... yes 21:35:15 I'm not talking about the new one, I'm talking about the old ecl from 2008 21:35:32 which I build and run on the arm 21:35:57 i'm not sure what are you trying to say 21:37:30 http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/pr01s06.html 21:37:52 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:38:02 We regularly get reports on ECL being built on other platforms (ARM, Motorola 68x, Sparc, etc), although not supported 21:38:10 how is that related to SBCL on ARM? 21:38:35 francogrex: SBCL doesn't use a C compiler to get machine code. 21:39:02 are you trying to shame SBCL or something? 21:39:35 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 21:40:11 jtza8: so the fact that ECL relies on the gcc that is already on the armv6 makes it easy to run? 21:40:42 ECL doesn't need gcc 21:40:53 -!- smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has quit [Client Quit] 21:41:19 francogrex: ECL doesn't compile to machine language, but SBCL does. 21:41:59 I think SBCL has a possibilty to run as interpreter only 21:42:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:43:06 you need first to compile it 21:43:19 smanek [~smanek@204.28.125.157] has joined #lisp 21:44:21 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:00 dnolen [~user@h211.81.28.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:30 The compiler bit of SBCL doesn't support ARM machine language, and that's needed if you want to compile SBCL. 21:46:34 that's if sbcl compiles itself, I want to compile it with another lisp that runs on the arm already like ecl that's what I'm saying since the start 21:46:39 kanru [~kanru@199.195.142.182] has joined #lisp 21:46:57 no, SBCL compiles itself even if you use another lisp for bootstrapping 21:47:12 aha 21:47:54 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:24 francogrex: CCL works on ARMv6, though. 21:48:24 besides, interpreting on SBCL on ARM would be a very slow experience 21:48:34 -!- milanj [~milanj_@91-150-119-244.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:48:43 especially considering that you don't have the latest and fastest ARM 21:49:33 v6. I'll compile it from src (ccl) 21:50:01 well, you need ccl to compile ccl 21:50:58 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:12 (yes, and there's a binary, i'm just saying that you don't have to compile it) 21:51:45 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:48 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:51:48 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 21:51:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 21:55:36 stassats: binary on svn, I had tried the svn repo a few days ago but still got the older version (v7) 21:55:59 it grew armv6 support just a few days ago 21:58:39 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:59:03 -!- p_l|home [~p_l@2a01:348:195:1:4cec:9949:1ba3:e779] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:03 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.13.107] has quit [Quit: Remote host closed the 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