00:04:04 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:18 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.3] 00:08:57 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-fokztpelpmrqames] has joined #lisp 00:10:28 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 00:13:15 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: dobranoc/good night] 00:17:08 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:53 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:20:23 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:20:53 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:21:14 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:04 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-18-75.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:19 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:30:17 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-fokztpelpmrqames] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 00:33:02 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:34:43 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:31 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 00:35:35 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:06 how do i create a new directory in sbcl? 00:37:22 It's not specific to sbcl. 00:37:25 (ensure-directories-exist (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute "some" "directory") :name "ignored")) 00:37:55 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:38:17 Note: to be portable (I'm not saying conforming, the specification is not really clear or specifying anything here), you have to put a file name. Some implementation would ignore the last component of the directory if there's no file name. 00:39:15 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:19 is it possible to access sb!kernel? Specifically, I'd like to call random-chunk directly just to have an apples-to-apples benchmark for my PRNG implementation 00:40:42 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 00:40:58 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 00:41:21 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:43:04 pjb: Thanks 00:43:14 i figured it might be portable-ish 00:43:24 but i'm dealing specifically with sbcl 00:44:52 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:43 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:46:16 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 00:47:32 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:52 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:49:27 kcj_ [~casey@203-173-219-88.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:49:39 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:50:33 Well, what's portable or (portablish and working in your implementation) should be good. There's no need to look for something more implementation specific. 00:52:05 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:52:10 *jasom* found answer to own question: sb-kernel 00:53:54 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:55:02 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129213079.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:43 pjb: one more question. if i call it like this: (ensure-directories-exist (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "foo") :name "ignored") #P"/home/duran")), i get an error: "Can't create directory /home/foo" 00:57:02 is there a concise way of ensuring the trailing / is there? 00:57:14 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 00:58:14 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:58:51 Yes, just put it there! #P"/home/duran/" 00:58:59 well, of course :P 00:59:02 You may also use (user-homedir-pathname) 00:59:23 thing is, i'm looking at where it's called, and i can see a user leaving it off 00:59:31 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has joined #lisp 01:00:14 actually, shouldn't be a problem 01:00:54 the argument will be called with an impled *default-pathname-defaults* 01:01:04 If you have #P, it's a CL:PATHNAME, and if it's a pathname to a directory then it should be printed with the "/". 01:01:24 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:37 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-194-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:01:46 But if the user enters the string "/home/duran" instead of "/home/duran/" it's easier to append a / before parsing the string as a pathname. 01:02:04 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:02:10 i redefined the interface to the function to take local-path as an optional argument that defaults to *default-pathname-default* 01:02:29 You can use: (make-pathname :directory (append (pathname-directories p) (list (pathname-name p))) :name nil) to convert #P"/home/duran" into #P"/home/duran/"). 01:02:29 the explicit declaration of local-path should be used for recursion anyway 01:03:13 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:05:09 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:50 -!- kcj_ [~casey@203-173-219-88.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: kcj_] 01:06:10 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:06:59 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:08:46 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:47 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:08:47 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 01:10:13 -!- statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: statonjr] 01:10:26 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:07 -!- fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:48 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:21:34 is there a nicer way to do this: https://gist.github.com/3167329 01:22:56 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:23:15 -!- pterygota [~user@cpe-76-188-1-129.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:00 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:05 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 fold [~fold@71-8-117-85.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:36 magnificrab: not AFAIK. Notice that ensure-directories-exist creates the whole directory hierarchy (if it can and must). 01:34:45 i'm mostly concerned about the double comma 01:35:22 Oh, I didn't notice you had a macro. Don't. Write a function here. 01:35:35 There's no reason to have a macro for that. 01:35:46 it started out as a function 01:35:50 but didn't want to work 01:36:08 it works as a macro, but it makes me uncomfortable 01:36:17 mast` [~alex@bas1-troisrivieres32-3096574097.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:36:56 as you should, since it should be a function. 01:37:05 Just remove ` and , and s/defmacro/defun and it'll be ok. 01:37:18 -!- mast` [~alex@bas1-troisrivieres32-3096574097.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Changing host] 01:37:18 mast` [~alex@unaffiliated/mast/x-9924406] has joined #lisp 01:37:43 (list :relative subdirname) 01:44:17 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:50:06 hmm 01:50:19 cl-ftp seems to transfer everything as binary 01:50:30 and even that doesn't seem to work too well 01:51:09 statement retracted 01:51:16 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:51:19 :type :ascii works, :binary doesn't 01:52:41 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-plgeeoponrrzqqaq] has joined #lisp 01:52:54 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 01:53:30 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:55:32 magnificrab: Feel free to send a testcase / bugreport. 01:56:02 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:57:39 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.48] has joined #lisp 02:00:10 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.125.0] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 02:00:59 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:04:17 hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584728.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:04:17 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.23.125.0] has joined #lisp 02:04:24 tensorpudding_ [~tensorpud@99.23.125.0] has joined #lisp 02:04:29 dnolen` [~user@pool-96-224-18-75.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:18 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined 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His manner of speaking in channels may be different that what you are used to, but Freenode staff asks that you act like everything is normal so that the FBI investigation is not impeded. : Christel - Freenode Staff 03:42:23 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:55 -!- StaffNotice [~Staff@213.140.116.188] has quit [K-Lined] 03:51:47 -!- and1_ [~namtsui@adsl-69-105-225-44.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:52:04 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-eydxcbhtncxemstz] has joined #lisp 03:52:27 Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.96.159] has joined #lisp 03:56:41 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:58:58 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.56] has joined #lisp 04:00:06 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:06 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:10:42 -!- snearch 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[~DataLink@58.165.223.245] has joined #lisp 06:57:09 eni [~eni@31.171.153.34] has joined #lisp 06:59:23 agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:56 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@95.Red-80-39-205.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:00:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-141-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:01:18 -!- am0c_yk [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:01:41 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:02:12 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:59 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:03:22 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:05:56 uuytjhgfj [~ytjyjjgh@teweco-sk.cust.sloane.cz] has joined #lisp 07:06:08 First or best nigger joke you ever heard. 07:06:08 How many chimpers remember the first nigger joke you ever heard? If you don't remember the first one, how about the best one. 07:06:08 The first one I ever heard... 07:06:08 Q: Why is it that so many niggers were killed in Vietnam? 07:06:08 A: Because when somebody yelled "Get Down!" the coons all got up and started dancing. 07:06:23 I love your avatar, cal the AMBERlamps...I have an oldie but a goodie and I think one of my favorite 07:06:23 What's the difference between dog shit and niggers? 07:06:23 When dog shit gets old it turns White and quits stinking. 07:06:23 How do you get a nigger out of a tree? 07:06:23 Cut the rope. 07:06:24 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o p_l|home 07:06:29 -!- p_l|home has set mode +b *!*ytjyjjgh@*.cust.sloane.cz 07:06:29 -!- uuytjhgfj [~pl@91.222.124.6] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l|home (uuytjhgfj) 07:06:53 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o p_l|home 07:06:58 sorry for late reaction 07:07:09 you were quick enough 07:07:16 thx 07:07:42 what was that o_O 07:08:12 foreignFunction: random freenode racist troll 07:08:56 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seconds] 08:04:08 so robust: http://codepad.org/9Fw2kDh7 08:05:04 rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:05:50 ice_ [~ice@222.130.133.243] has joined #lisp 08:06:18 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 08:06:42 -!- kanru [~kanru@209.118.182.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:07:27 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:08:40 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:11:04 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:36 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 08:20:33 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 08:22:03 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@c-76-102-23-188.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:24:05 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 08:28:41 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 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seconds] 08:59:32 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 09:00:34 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 09:07:15 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 09:10:23 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:18:47 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:19:25 Quadresce: you wouldn't want a memory leak in that :P 09:22:17 bege [~bege@91.146.170.203] has joined #lisp 09:24:20 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 09:27:28 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:31:04 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:31:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:37:43 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.129.147.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44:51 bitonic 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mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:47:02 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:47:04 -!- ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-kyrdgphtsnuchyxn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:48:06 -!- am0c [~am0c@121.160.18.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:50:08 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-123-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:33 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-123-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:52 jasom: if you can paste the PRNG code somewhere, I'd be interested. The recent kerfuffle on float PRNG stoked my interest in giving SBCL a *mechanism* to implement such alternative policies. 12:52:14 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:54:30 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:55:42 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA059F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:57:53 hugoduncan [~user@69.157.169.36] has joined #lisp 12:58:35 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584728.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:01:40 -!- CrazyEddy [~cyclonite@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:04:54 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:06:33 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:07:22 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:08:16 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 13:08:20 wws [~billstcla@p-216-227-81-61.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:10:00 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:10:09 -!- wws [wws@clozure-E1CE060A.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 13:13:46 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:15:07 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:15:27 CrazyEddy [~unexpert@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:18:41 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 13:20:56 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:25:18 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:27:31 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:35:01 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:18 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 13:37:56 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:41:59 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:43:01 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 13:46:07 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:36 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 13:47:00 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-188-79.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:50:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:50:27 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:33 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:45 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-vnxvgrcwzimubstc] has joined #lisp 13:54:59 Eulo [~Eulo@78-72-37-188-no21.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:09 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.65] has joined #lisp 13:59:17 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:03:12 javi_ [~javier@56.Red-83-56-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:50 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@host229-131-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:07:00 -!- javi_ [~javier@56.Red-83-56-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 14:08:18 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.60.226] has joined #lisp 14:11:23 tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.125.0] has joined #lisp 14:11:43 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:13:08 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-115-184.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:14:29 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-vnxvgrcwzimubstc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:48 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:16:49 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:08 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 14:18:50 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:19:25 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:51 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:17 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225018022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:20:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:21:36 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-geybleifxmykajpf] has joined #lisp 14:26:17 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.60.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:27:20 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.37.18] has joined #lisp 14:27:53 can someone take a look at this plz? http://paste.lisp.org/display/130658 14:29:21 Farzad: the problem you're having is that i is the same place in each lambda 14:29:23 Farzad: try (dotimes (i 5) (let ((i i)) (push (lambda () (print i)) tmp))) 14:29:31 Farzad: dotimes changes the value of i 14:29:45 three answers, all valid :D 14:29:59 I like stassats' answer best. 14:30:20 thanks guys 14:30:23 I think it's important to explain the problem first 14:30:24 well, dotimes not necessarily changes the value, but it can and you shouldn't depend on it 14:30:28 but I like that we gave a complete explanation in parallel. 14:30:47 yeah, that was some good task reduction 14:32:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:00 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:06 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:06 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:45 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:53:21 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:57:15 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-nuvgtrcqvtdedikd] has joined #lisp 14:58:02 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-xbnsvfwnrrjyxtze] has joined #lisp 15:04:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04:41 kanru [~kanru@2620:101:8003:200:8ea9:82ff:fe77:2e8e] has joined #lisp 15:06:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-147-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:06:28 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-vpqgtskocranwdsk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:09:00 fredrik_ [~fredrik@vpn14.hotsplots.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:30 -!- PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:31 -!- H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:32 -!- mal__ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:12:33 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 15:12:54 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:13:38 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:14:01 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-194-68.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:14:01 H4ns` [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:01 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 15:14:01 PissedNu1lock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:14:02 efftee [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:14:02 -!- efftee is now known as ft 15:14:02 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:14:02 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 15:14:12 Is there an online Lisp REPL? 15:14:54 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:58 Gurragchaa: why? I mean, you can easily download a Common Lisp implementation 15:17:29 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 15:17:29 -!- LaughingMan [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:29 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-244-142.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:02 I'd like to be able to find a REPL I can use at an internet cafe or public library computer 15:21:05 pretty sure i saw a clojure repl somewhere, if that's lispy enough for you... 15:21:20 http://tryclj.com/ 15:24:52 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:25:30 Gurragchaa: maybe you could put a lisp implementation on a usb drive or a cd? 15:26:07 Gurragchaa: Or ssh home from said computer. 15:26:46 there's an irc channel with an evalbot 15:26:47 chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:26:55 pjb: do you remember the channel name? 15:27:50 hello people 15:28:10 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:30:30 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:44:04 k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.9] has joined #lisp 15:48:36 why is scala considered so cool for basically doing what cl/clos has done for years? 15:49:34 it's hard to understand people when your first step is to denigrate them. 15:49:39 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:52:22 fe[nl]ix: do you plan on fixing the fiveam stuff I submitted? the only real showstopper for me is the named-lambda one 15:53:24 bjorkintosh: I'm not quite sure how scala is doing what CLOS has been doing? 15:53:26 bjorkintosh: would you care to elaborate on that? i don't readily see that many similarities. 15:53:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:53:42 oo+functional. 15:53:50 bjorkintosh: Also I'm a big fan of scala personally. I find it very pleasent to work with. 15:54:10 is it fast too? 15:54:19 @schmx? 15:54:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:54:25 there's functional and functional. scala is statically typed with decent inference 15:55:09 bjorkintosh: I think winning points for it is that it runs on top of JVM and CLR, has a nice "actor-model" for the multicore stuff instead of doing threads etc., nice syntax, and yeah.. statically typed + has more of a "functional" ala haskell/SML/whatever feel to it than CL does. 15:55:27 bjorkintosh: Basically it lets you avoid java :D 15:55:45 interesting. very interesting. 15:55:50 schmx: exactly that - it's what java should have been. 15:56:23 tkd: That's a good point. :) 15:56:52 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-123-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:59 I also find scala to be messy. Very messy 15:57:17 or so it went when trying to learn it 15:57:25 who cares about Scala, let's talk Common Lisp 15:57:38 stassats: just what I wanted to add :) 15:58:14 p_l|home: well, compared to common lisp it does look a bit messy:> 15:58:28 stassats, is right. 15:58:46 let us talk about lisp pretending to be all functional when it is mostly just parenthesis :P 15:58:57 OH yeah.. It doesn't have much on lisp. and iirc sykopomp was talking about brining the nice erlangish multiprocessor thing to CL. 15:59:01 totally kidding. 15:59:03 tkd: compared to Haskell, Factor, and others too. I'd rather use Clojure, or ABCL (though it does miss some nice stuff) 15:59:10 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:59:31 If Factor ran on top of jvm or CLR otoh... well yeah. I shut up. 15:59:45 bjorkintosh: i find CL to be very much buzzword non-compliant when it comes to FP and after a year of clojuer, i like it that way :) 15:59:51 schmx: eh. Everyone outside Erlang community is talking about as if messaging processes were everything Erlang was about... 15:59:51 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 15:59:54 I don't know why 16:00:06 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-nuvgtrcqvtdedikd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:00:17 emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has joined #lisp 16:00:34 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.37.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:35 the multiprocessing part is easy to replace/clone compared to OTP 16:00:36 p_l|home: That is indeed so. I think it's the thing that has been mostly marketed about it. I dunno. 16:00:44 *schmx* nodsnods. 16:01:14 I think it's a bit because people don't see OTP till they dive deeper into Erlang 16:01:33 brb 16:02:07 I suppose it is a bit like lisp. Most people think it's just C with parenthesis. and don't see CLOS and what not until they dive in deeper. 16:02:20 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.181] has joined #lisp 16:02:25 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.181] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:45 schmx: esp. when they hear about macros and go "oh yeah, i know #define":> 16:05:27 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@101.68.54.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:05:38 tkd: people tend to think they know more than they actually do, I'm very guilty of doing that, two years ago i knew all languages and paradigms :) 16:06:56 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-166-21-1-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:27 mal__ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:48 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:55 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:09 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 16:09:15 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:53 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-mdghecfgpgunjmho] has joined #lisp 16:10:51 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:06 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:15:49 -!- kanru [~kanru@2620:101:8003:200:8ea9:82ff:fe77:2e8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:16:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:17:43 is there a way to remove a system from quicklisp ? 16:18:22 wbooze: delete it from dist directory 16:18:30 that does not solve it 16:18:43 i still get truename of bla could not be found errors.... 16:18:48 cause it's registered..... 16:19:16 noobie question... function expects (simple-array (unsigned-byte 8) (*)) and i have a buffer that type-of shows as (vector (unsigned-byte 8) 12345)... what are the options, other than creating a array and copying 16:19:16 put empty ASDF for it in local projects? 16:19:22 and by the way does anyone else get utf-8 errors on sockets in iolib.trivial-sockets ? 16:19:28 LAMMJohnson [ja@cpc11-nrwh10-2-0-cust397.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:15 emit: can you change the type of the buffer? 16:21:52 i wish i knew how, it's just the first return value of dramka http-request 16:22:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-109-205-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:33 and passing it to pb:merge-from-array in protobuf library 16:23:02 i guess i will just have to do a copy 16:23:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 16:24:31 drakma returns a simple-array here 16:24:40 emit: try passing :force-binary t 16:26:21 ok, disregard that 16:26:50 it returns non-simple array for chunked replies 16:27:07 stassats: yes. for small packets it was working 16:27:14 so, yes, just add (coerce reply '(simple-array (unsigned-byte 8) (*))) 16:28:10 ok great. i was just returning (copy-seq reply) which works but seems redundant 16:28:28 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.42.125] has joined #lisp 16:28:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.42.125] has quit [Changing host] 16:28:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:29:09 sweet, it works as well. thanks 16:29:33 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:50 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:33:39 pnpuff [~user@host5-89-dynamic.247-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:33:46 -!- pnpuff [~user@host5-89-dynamic.247-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 16:33:46 pnpuff [~user@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:34:51 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:36:50 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:37:47 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 16:38:40 tritchey [~tritchey@12.97.199.50] has joined #lisp 16:38:54 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 16:40:18 slime-repl buffer seems renders the output in some mouse selectable format which seems to slow down my emacs considerably when the output is huge... any way to disable that and just dump plaintext? 16:41:14 you can just print it 16:41:43 ah that works... thanks 16:42:54 -!- ozzloy_ is now known as ozzloy 16:43:33 probably a faq, but while you're at it... how would i just ignore the return value (something like >/dev/null it) 16:44:42 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:44:55 if you simply want to make emacs not print it, you can probably do (and something nil) 16:45:36 tkd: perfect, thanks 16:46:05 or (prog1 nil foo) 16:46:44 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:48:55 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:49:54 -!- piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:08 (null foo) 16:50:20 (not foo), if you want something shorter 16:50:26 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:53 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 16:51:22 piko [~piko@ip4-83-240-108-205.cust.nbox.cz] has joined #lisp 16:51:34 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:52 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 16:53:52 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:54:09 -!- 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[hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:50 -!- H4ns`` is now known as h4ns 17:01:30 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 17:01:37 emit: M-x slime-repl-clear-buffer usually does it for me 17:01:47 -!- h4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has left #lisp 17:01:52 -!- H4ns` [hans@netzhansa.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:01:54 yeah i was using that all the time c-c m-o 17:01:54 auganov [~auganov@83.238.158.122] has joined #lisp 17:02:13 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-224.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 hugod [~user@69.157.169.36] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129027068.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 SeySayux 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[~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:59 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:19 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:15:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-192-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:15 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-124-58.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:17:46 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-234-59.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:02 You can also disable presentations 18:29:58 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:31:36 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:32:52 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:36:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-234-59.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:37:45 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:17 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-247-165.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:25 snearch [~snearch@g225018022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:38 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:45:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:45:17 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:45:51 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:45:55 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:12 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:52 -!- p_l|home [~pl@91.222.124.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:49:21 p_l|home [~pl@91.222.124.6] has joined #lisp 18:55:27 bjorkintosh: " let us talk about lisp pretending to be all functional when it is mostly just parenthesis :P" If you want. But there are really no parenthesis in lisp http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/6ec4dab4a8d57f6e 18:55:44 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 18:56:07 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:34 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:07 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.80] has joined #lisp 18:57:08 very clever Mister Bond! 18:58:51 schmx: the erlangish multiprocessor thing is progressing along nicely. I can spread event handling across N processors. I'm working on interrupts on kills, and then it's just a matter of writing some straightforward library code. :) 18:59:14 schmx: https://github.com/sykopomp/memento-mori/blob/develop/README.md :D 18:59:59 sykopomp: How are you doing processor affinity stuff? SBCL-specific? 19:00:28 *schmx* has a look. 19:00:43 My own multi-proc project does CCL-specific stuff, but I want to switch to libdispatch and less the OS handle that. 19:01:14 pjb: "That's why things like ((expression1) (expression2)) are antithetic to 19:01:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:01:27 the lisp way" (sorry, stray newline) - what did you mean by that? 19:01:30 But currently dispatching async breaks both CCL and SBCL (they seem to get confused when a non-lisp thread calls into lisp repeatedly). 19:01:35 sellout: there's no affinity right now, and I don't know why I need it right now. For actors that you want to be able to block with (FFI stuff, for example), I'm planning on adding a pinned-actor scheduler where there's a 1:1 actor:thread relationship. 19:01:38 sounds like he was taking a jab at lisp-1s 19:01:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:02:44 (is there any other reason for processor affinity?) 19:02:51 dlowe: yeah that would be my first guess but... why? so i asked. 19:03:30 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-mdghecfgpgunjmho] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:17 tkd: for one thing, you can't know statically what's called 19:04:20 sykopomp: Well, affinity is nice if you have multiple threads feeding from the same queue (for example), since you prevent the threads from cannibalizing each other's time. 19:04:26 which may be harder to understand/reason about 19:04:43 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-uimfnnaomwkmaioy] has joined #lisp 19:05:00 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 19:05:31 sellout: I round-robin actor work, so you can't really starve other actors unless you take way too long to do your work. 19:05:49 ice [~ice@222.130.133.243] has joined #lisp 19:05:54 I'm essentially implementing M:N without the preemption. 19:05:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:06:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:07:34 stassats: you i don't think you can know what's called statically with generic methods either. 19:07:52 s/you i/i// 19:08:28 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 19:09:09 n 19:10:02 hlavaty: problems with mkstemp ? 19:10:13 tkd: In that context, I meant that sexps are AST, and an AST node needs a label, not an (expressoin1). 19:10:22 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 19:10:22 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:10:25 tkd: that's why generic-function should do one thing, just slightly differently depending on the arguments 19:10:28 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:43 generic-function methods, that is 19:11:02 and dlowe is probably right too :-) 19:11:27 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:03 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:28 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:14:53 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 19:14:53 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:17:09 pjb: ok, so let's say i have some sort of a processing pipeline that i dynamically build up and then want to apply to some data. something like ((apply #'compose operations) data) would be ugly, but something like (apply-pipeline operations data) would be better style in your book? tell me if it's a bad example, but this is the first thing that comes to my mind. 19:19:45 johndoe [johndoe@unaffiliated/johndoe] has joined #lisp 19:20:32 im on linux, which compiler/interpreter should i use? or better, where should i start? never used clisp before :P 19:20:37 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 19:20:49 johndoe: go with SBCL, Emacs and quicklisp :) 19:21:13 practical common lisp should be a good book, if you need one. and the language is called "CL" rather than "clisp" 19:21:46 kk 19:22:01 clisp (an implementation) is pretty good, but majority of people here use SBCL which has certain mapping to library support, quicklisp will solve your "how do i install" woes 19:22:06 did some mini lisp hacking when i write my emacs config 19:22:16 ah 19:22:32 ok thanks 19:22:34 tkd: the point is code=data. In ((expresion1) (expression2)) you cannot know how to interpret it without evaluating (expression1). In (IF c t e) you know how to interpret it just looking at the label of the AST node (IF). 19:22:47 johndoe: what-implementation is at telnet://clis.informatimago.com:8101 19:24:43 sloanr [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 19:25:25 haha how cool is that :) 19:25:40 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:26:27 what-implementation might be nice as an irc bot feature, actually' 19:26:47 using private messages, of course 19:26:54 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:13 yes, private messages and notices 19:28:09 you'd think, but clients do weird things with notices even though they're supposed to be just like privmsgs 19:28:43 dlowe: yes, but NOTICE doesn't tend to spam the channel 19:28:59 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 19:29:26 -dlowe:#lisp- just as spammy :p 19:29:49 ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:10 what was that 19:30:30 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@84.255.191.174] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:30:37 a notice to the channel 19:30:55 thank god almost nobody knows about that 19:31:26 This is still on topic because I have a CL irc bot, but notices and privmsgs are supposed to be handled identically, except that bots should only generate notices and never respond to them. 19:31:27 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.9] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:43 k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.9] has joined #lisp 19:31:50 But the system is totally broken because *all* clients handle them differently 19:31:51 i hope it's not comin in this channel 19:32:47 so people write irc bots that emit privmsgs, and you might as well not have notices at all 19:32:47 in fact, some clients will throw up a popup even if you're on a different channel on a different server 19:32:53 >_< 19:33:04 Private notices are pretty broken in general. Channel notices generally work okay in most clients, don't they? 19:33:04 -!- BeLucid__ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:50 apparently not, judging from reactions :) 19:33:59 oh noes, why did JJGR have to abandon the POSIX concurrency API and implement his own for ECL ? 19:34:02 pjb: is it actually possible in common lisp for ((foo) (bar)) to evaluate to something else than a funcall to whatever foo evaluates to, without reader hackery? 19:34:35 tkd: ((lambda (x) (1+ x) 5) works as a special case 19:34:40 that's about it, though 19:34:52 dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 19:34:52 -!- dan64- [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:34:52 fe[nl]ix: because windows didn't provide the posix semantics? 19:35:18 fe[nl]ix: link? 19:35:22 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:35:55 also, directly depending on POSIX API isn't a good idea, IMHO 19:36:25 -johndoe:#lisp- testing NOTICE 19:36:32 dlowe: yes, ircbot and web interface. When I have time (or you may do them, the sources are AGPL3). 19:36:57 p_l|home: from my POV of *nix(mostly Linux) developer, I disagree 19:37:07 did you see? 21:36:24 [notice(#lisp)] testing NOTICE 19:37:22 yes, notices work. 19:37:31 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:37:35 p_l|home: latest post on planet lisp 19:37:48 dlowe: That's exactly the decision process Fade and I went through with our bot. 19:37:57 i think they shouldnt, not sure. maybe you should check channel flags 19:38:11 "Hey! Notices! That'd be a good way to segment off bot-originated traffic." 19:38:21 "That's hideous. PRIVMSGs it is. 19:38:22 " 19:38:33 tkd: indeed, in scheme ((e1) (e2)) is a function call: (e1) can only return a function. But notice how often people want to "call" a macro at run time (and if they do, they won't know the difference between a macro and a special operator either). 19:38:34 Tuxedo: yes. very sad. 19:39:21 fe[nl]ix: well, for me an important use of ECL is getting lisp in places I can't fit other implementations, and thus reliance on less common POSIX elements is a hindrance 19:39:30 ehu: if adding windows support makes *nix programming hard/incompatible with the rest of the ecosystem, then it's one more reason to avoid ECL 19:39:47 fe[nl]ix: I'm just worried about compatibility between ECL and hosting applications. 19:43:58 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA059F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:00 personally, I've only ever used ECL to test usocket on. Back then it wasn't an implementation I'd work on regularly. Lots of changes since then though, so I'm sure it's no longer representative of the situation today 19:44:26 however, if I wasn't embedding CL in Java applications, I wouldn't use ABCL as much as I do today either. 19:44:45 So I guess it really depends on where you're coming from and where you're headed. 19:46:18 ehu: is there a *good* manual for using ABCL to extend java classes? 19:46:42 pjb: i guess you see this as the better way from experience, but it seems pretty arbitrary to me - a CL newbie, i freely admit - to have first class functions but disallow them to appear in the standard function call syntax. except for lambdas. 19:47:25 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: scrimohsin] 19:47:36 CL is not about reason or elegance, it's about compatibility with legacy lisps 19:47:38 tkd: the lambda thing is an artefact of old 19:48:03 tkd: it means you can have separate namespaces for variables and functions 19:48:09 it was for ease of portability from some other lisp, which was later dropped, but the special case remained 19:48:24 Yea, ((lambda (a) ...) 5) isn't actually calling the return value of lambda. It's actually special-cased syntax. 19:48:29 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-130-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:31 dlowe: ((get-function)) could be made to work 19:48:31 tkd: if you want to learn more than you ever wanted, look up lisp-1 vs lisp-2 19:48:34 ehu` [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:49:08 foom: oh, that's interesting - i didn't realize that 19:49:09 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-222-143.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 stassats: that's essentially funcall 19:49:19 stassats: but that would be even more confusing 19:49:35 stassats: because then (let ((x (get-foo))) (x)) 19:49:50 *THAT* can't be made to work, because of the different function-namespace 19:49:50 dlowe: yes it does give you 2 namespaces but i'm not sure why you'd ever want that. 19:50:06 tkd: it's not so much a question of want, it's just how it is. 19:50:23 i want two namespace because i want to give my variables sane names 19:50:25 tkd: means you can name variables LIST and LENGTH without worrying about clobbering some important function 19:50:32 or any function 19:50:46 like list or vector, not lst or some other bastardization 19:51:10 shrug, sure. that's a slight benefit. But there's really not much point in arguing about it. It is what it is, and it really doesn't make any real difference. 19:51:31 ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:03 I believe the actual reason was that it's really hard to effeciently compile function calls on a lisp-1 19:52:14 s/reason/argument/ 19:53:01 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:53:02 scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@static-50-43-23-161.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:02 -!- scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@static-50-43-23-161.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:53:02 scrimohsin [~scrimohsi@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 19:53:06 Blkt [~user@82.84.189.92] has joined #lisp 19:53:07 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:53:26 foom: please don't interpret me as trying to argue - i'm trying to understand the reasoning behind this (esp. in context of what pjb wrote in a post about ((foo) (bar)) being a signature of someone very inexperienced with lisp) 19:53:56 because it doesn't work? 19:54:27 tkd: I was more talking to the other people making arguments about why it's good/bad. 19:55:57 stassats: yeah in common lisp, i kinda thought it was meant about lisps in general. 19:57:06 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.89] has joined #lisp 19:58:02 tkd: I trend to philosophize probably too much into design choices. 19:58:02 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-182-232.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:58:22 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 19:58:22 -!- dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:58:53 tkd: the think is that you can consider lambda expressions to be function names. 19:59:30 The FUNCTION special operator takes an argument called NAME, which is either a function name or a lambda expression. 19:59:35 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:19 So in function calls: (name arguments), name can also be either a function name or a lambda expression. A lambda expression here is not a special case if you consider that FUNCTION and function applications take a NAME. 20:00:56 So anonymous functions have a name: it's themselves! Hence all the functions already exist and have a name, you just have to find what's their names. 20:01:27 What's the name of the function that do such and such? (lambda (x) (such (such x))) :-) 20:02:40 -!- mathrick_ is now known as mathrick 20:02:48 pjb: ok, thanks for that, i think it actually makes it clearer for me. 20:02:52 dan64 [dan64@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:7dc0] has joined #lisp 20:03:15 it's actually easy to post-rationalize things, especially if they're vague enough 20:03:54 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:04:35 stassats: the point is to build some "theory" that ease learning. At least, that's my way to learn complex things: make simplifying "theories". 20:05:17 paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-162.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:12 ebobby_ [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:20 stassats: sure:) this is essentially what you said earlier on - you wouldn't know what to call statically. except i now see why this could matter. 20:06:29 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 20:06:44 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:01 antgreen` [user@nat/redhat/x-xeyvjjdwycwrlkap] has joined #lisp 20:08:17 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:17 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-uimfnnaomwkmaioy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:17 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-174.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:17 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:08:17 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-190.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:09:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-174.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:31 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-148-233-236.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:31 k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.9] has joined #lisp 20:09:56 -!- SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:09:56 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:10:14 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:45 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 20:11:08 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:12:20 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:13:26 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:13:37 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-147-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:38 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:15:38 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A28C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:39 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:15:43 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483A28C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:59 ah. the joys of defending CL in #python... 20:16:08 shrug. why bother? 20:16:13 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 well, hate for misinformation to exist 20:16:36 rbarraud [~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:16:38 pkhuong: (or other sbcl guys), if I declare lexical var dynamic extent and then collect list into it using PUSH inside of the LET, will sbcl handle do it? or it only works for the consing to be right there in the LET? 20:16:48 someone is WRONG on the Internet 20:16:55 always. 20:17:10 we must remain vigilant :) 20:17:11 but less often in here :) 20:17:28 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 20:19:23 SeySayux [SeySayux@libsylph/developer/seysayux] has joined #lisp 20:20:35 -!- saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA059F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:21:12 saschakb [~skbierm@p4FEA059F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:06 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:22:56 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.41.137.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:55 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:28:20 coderunner [bd201b5e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.32.27.94] has joined #lisp 20:28:42 is possible create a native code to newlisp today? 20:28:53 is there someone? 20:29:06 or just in time? 20:29:08 this isn't really a forum for newlisp 20:29:14 try #newlisp 20:29:24 one person there 20:29:30 Me 20:29:39 ... 20:29:40 that's about a measure of its popularity 20:29:40 maxm: won't work. Could, but won't work in (current) SBCL. 20:30:20 dlowe thank you 20:30:25 pkhuong: any way to make it work in current sbcl (the concept of collecting to stack allocated list?). Ie apply with &rest or such? 20:30:53 -!- coderunner [bd201b5e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.32.27.94] has left #lisp 20:31:20 well actually have to have the list 1st 20:31:43 i assume it still works with vectors, I remember it was working.. 20:32:10 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:39 maxm: yes, I plan to fix those issues but I'm a bit busy right now 20:33:49 fe[nl]ix: thanks, if you only have time for 1, just do the named lambda one, its actually conceptually the easiest one too 20:35:08 -!- ice [~ice@222.130.133.243] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:36:03 ok 20:43:39 Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.96.159] has joined #lisp 20:45:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@089144206245.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:46:18 |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:33 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225018022.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:48:20 -!- agumonkey [~agu@85.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping 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joined #lisp 21:57:03 -!- Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:59:12 -!- b__9 [~user@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:07 -!- sloanr [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:58 etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:04:01 Hi there 22:04:34 -!- Quadresce` [~quad@c-24-131-149-41.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:05:32 Hi! 22:05:52 (That was your first wish). 22:05:52 I'm reading some lisp code, and it has some calls to the function DECLARE. I've read the hyperspec about it, but I still don't understand this function's purpose. Am I right in thinking that it tells the compiler to consider some symbols in a particular way? 22:06:07 DECLARE is not a function, not a macro, not a special operator! 22:06:26 I already feel the headache coming :D 22:06:35 declare is a sexp that is parsed by an enclosing macro or special operator. 22:06:46 Its meaning is interpreted by that enclosing macro or special operator. 22:07:20 you can consider it an argument :) 22:07:22 In general, it allows you to declare things. The compiler may use those declarations to optimize or vary its code generation. 22:07:33 It has nothing to do with arguments. 22:07:51 etenil: notice that you can invent your own declarations. 22:08:01 well I still don't understand :( 22:08:33 you can't put declare where you want, it's only expected in some very precise places 22:08:40 (declaim (declaration funny-fun)) (defun f () (declare (funny-fun)) 'fun) 22:08:49 for instance what I can read is: (declare (readtable rt)) 22:09:14 but I don't understand what this does 22:09:24 that tells the compiler that rt refers to an object of type readtable. 22:09:27 This is a type declaration. It is expanded to (declare (type readtable rt)) 22:09:39 It tells the compiler that rt is bound to an object of type readtable. 22:09:48 etenil: it's a promise from the author to the compiler that RT will always be bound to objects of type readtable in the scope of that declaration. 22:09:53 oh alright 22:09:55 This could allow the compiler to optimize things. 22:10:09 But the point is that declarations are used by tools manipulating functions. 22:10:28 does it only let the compiler optimize things or is it also a guarantee that rt will be of type readtable? 22:10:41 For example you could write a tool that reads lisp sources, and when it sees a function f with a funny-fun declaration, it could print "Ha ha f!" 22:11:07 etenil: no, it doesn't guarantee anything; YOU are promising to the compiler that rt will always be bound to a readtable. 22:11:16 I see 22:11:27 stupid question, what is defun? 22:11:35 etenil: to guarantee types of things you'd use check-type. 22:11:38 a macro that defines a function 22:11:40 defun is a macro that creates a function. 22:11:41 it's too late for me to think about it 22:11:58 check, macro. I couldn't remove that for my head nor could I explain myselfwhy 22:12:17 (defun f (x) (check-type x integer) (+ x 2)) <-- the compiler will guarantee that x is an integer (if it is not, it will signal an error). 22:12:21 alright I see 22:12:42 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:12:43 well thanks to you, I'll be able to read on my code :) 22:12:58 (defun f (x) (declare (type integer x)) (+ x 2)) <-- you promize you will only call f with integers. If you pass it something else, anything can happen. 22:13:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:21 It may launch a missile, fly dragons out of your nose, signal an error, return strange results, anything. 22:13:26 he he 22:14:09 -!- hswe [~hswe@vpn.space150.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:10 Strangely enough, since a few years, the launch a missile thread doesn't sound so theoric 22:14:23 It could blow a nuclear plant in Iran, etc. 22:14:37 well I suppose you could run a predator drone with lisp 22:14:48 then it's not that far from reality 22:15:01 or play ACDC tunes over there 22:15:05 "who started the war?" "a badly placed declare statement!" 22:15:15 Yep. 22:15:27 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:30 So I rarely use declare, but you can often use check-type. 22:15:51 well the code I read must have some speed requirements 22:15:52 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:15:53 etenil: now of course, sbcl has a specific understanding of type declarations. 22:16:00 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:16:05 that's sbcl's reader, so I guess they tried to optimize it 22:16:08 etenil: beware, with some compilers, adding type declare makes it generate slower code. 22:17:02 ah that sorts of defeat the purpose then 22:17:10 It's implementation dependant. 22:17:36 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:17:38 yes and the CL spec can be rather loose at times 22:17:39 SBCL is different: most declarations are checked as well at default optimisation settings. 22:18:00 pkhuong: does that mean that declarations actually speed things up in sbcl? 22:18:14 Again, not necessarily. 22:18:35 type declarations can only be used to speed things up in portable code. 22:18:44 One problem of type declarations is that it may force unboxing/boxing of arguments. That takes time. 22:19:07 oh 22:19:38 Speed optimization with declarations is implementation dependant. 22:19:51 I prefer to use algorithmic optimisations instead of those micro-optimization. 22:20:26 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:21:20 pjb : about unboxing values, why is it more interesting to manipulate boxed values when you are looking for speed ? 22:21:49 unboxed values can be processed directly by the microprocessor. 22:21:53 yup 22:22:03 But unboxing/boxing takes time, so in a lisp program it may be better to keep values boxed. 22:22:51 In a tight loop you may unbox and use unboxed values. But if you call often a function that is basically O(1) and that does this unboxing/boxing, then you're losing that time for nothing. 22:23:55 -!- etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:02 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:24:10 (defun f (x) (box (use-once (unbox x)))) (loop repeat 1000 do (f x)) vs. (defun f (x) (let ((u (unbox x))) (loop repeat 1000 do (setf result (something u))) (box result))) 22:24:34 In the first case, you have O(n) unbox/box, in the later case you have O(1) unbox/box. 22:25:22 What that means is that declaring types will have to spread out to the function type, and all the functions that call that function, etc, until your whole program is just a C program. 22:27:18 I would rather have an operator to specialize functions. I would rather have the compiler do it itself. (defun fact (x) (if (<= x 0) 1 (* x (fact (1- x))))) (specialize fact-fixnum (fixnum) fact) (fact-fixnum 4) (fact 16/5) 22:28:25 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-244-142.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:37 there's nothing stopping the compiler from already doing that though is there? building multiple specialized versions 22:28:45 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host113-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:28:51 Indeed, some compilers do something like that. 22:29:00 i thought sbcl essentially _did_ that for a number of things, internally 22:29:13 Yes, I'm thinking of sbcl. 22:29:14 since upgrading emacs slime is giving me an error along the lines of "error in process filter: wrong number of arguments" when i enter (make-instance 'some-definedclass []) my cursor is at []. it immediately hangs too. has anyone experienced something similar? 22:29:48 that's just one more neat thing about CL imo .. the compiler _can_ be smart 22:29:56 a type decl shouldn't ever need to *force* reboxing a value that's already available boxed. 22:30:03 that seems like a bug in sbcl. :) 22:30:44 About the increase of time when declaring types, I observed that in ccl. I don't use sbcl enough. 22:31:19 well concurrency could come into play and bite you 22:32:15 foom: representation selection is Hard and the local heuristics are easily confused. Mostly an issue with fixnum/machine integer choices. For everything else, the boxed representation is usually so bad to work with that it's always better to go for the unboxed one. 22:33:24 Jonasmith [~jons@31-35-196.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 22:33:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:35:17 Is there a Boston lisp meeting tonight? 22:35:48 If so, where is it? 22:37:46 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:39:14 kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:21 what does this mean?: https://gist.github.com/3173140 22:40:01 I have (require :sb-md5) in the file 22:40:45 and the line causing the error is: (setf md5 (sb-md5:md5sum-file path-absolute)) 22:41:10 It means that the package SB-MD5 does not exist. 22:41:22 kanedank: require is a function. top-level function calls are executed at load-time, not compile-time. 22:41:28 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:41:39 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:42:09 Posterdati [~tapioca@host57-4-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:42:44 re: previous error: this seems to be what happens when the hints for a forward-referenced class are asked for. 22:42:45 so I have to force that function call to be executed before compiling the rest of the file? 22:43:26 (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (require :sb-md5)) 22:43:26 kanedank: see eval-when 22:44:00 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:54 pjb, oGMo: thank you! 22:46:29 also, I don't really understand why I should have :load-toplevel in there 22:46:55 -!- antgreen` [user@nat/redhat/x-xeyvjjdwycwrlkap] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:15 Try to compile the file, quit sbcl, launch sbcl and (load "file.fasl") 22:47:16 -!- Jonasmith [~jons@31-35-196.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:46 -!- ozialien_ [~ernest@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:06 -!- kanedank [~user@pool-72-74-50-53.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:41 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:10 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:26 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:45 gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:46 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@bb-216-195-184-91.gwi.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:57:46 gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has joined #lisp 23:01:04 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-xbnsvfwnrrjyxtze] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:03:09 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.89] has joined #lisp 23:05:16 pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:05 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:06 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:09:06 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:09:21 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:11:29 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:12:57 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:13:15 b__9 [~user@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:55 -!- gurrag [~gurrag@unaffiliated/gurrag] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:16:29 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 23:16:35 saschakb [~skbierm@gateway/tor-sasl/saschakb] has joined #lisp 23:19:10 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:19:37 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:47 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.96.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:44 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 23:27:50 "Fun": interrupting a thread in the right context to stop a task only if it's executing a specific task at that point in time. 23:31:09 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night] 23:33:58 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:37:19 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 23:39:03 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:54 -!- auganov [~auganov@83.238.158.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:09 auganov [~auganov@83.238.158.122] has joined #lisp 23:40:52 -!- pspace [~andrew@li450-44.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:46 *jasom* just avoids threads like the plague 23:48:41 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:16 lisptastic [b89139e2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.145.57.226] has joined #lisp 23:49:28 hello there lisp community 23:50:40 may I ask you what lisp implementations do you prefer and what is that implementation good for? (I am a beginner in search of a implementation but I am not sure yet on what I want to do with it so I was hoping to see different uses here) 23:51:06 lisptastic: if you want to learn CL, there are a number of good ones, all of which would serve most of your purposes. 23:51:24 I suggest SBCL, Clozure CL, and CLISP among the open source ones 23:51:33 ECL and ABCL are nice, too, depending on what you need 23:51:46 oh ok 23:52:02 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:08 but like is an implementation a rewritten version of common lisp? 23:52:10 lisptastic: SBCL is known for how fast the code it compiles is, clozure is nice for development, or if you're doing threads or targeting OSX 23:52:21 an implementation is an implementation of the common lisp standard. 23:52:37 so the standard can not be used alone? 23:52:45 The standard is a text. 23:52:58 implementations implement the standard, meaning the behavior defined by the standard. 23:53:01 lisptastic: There is a document describing exactly how a Common Lisp implementation is supposed to behave. 23:53:06 what do you mean by text? 23:53:12 Written words. 23:53:18 lisptastic: it's just a bunch of text describing the language. Words, English. 23:53:19 Like a book. 23:53:20 there seem to be a number of people coming in lately not knowing what an implementation is. I wonder why. 23:53:35 oh ok 23:53:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:11 lisptastic: The point is that if you write a conforming program (meaning, a program that conforms to what the standard defines), you can run that program in any compliant lisp implementation, unmodified. 23:54:32 nice 23:54:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:55:09 can common lisp be used at a low level? or is it more high level 23:55:11 lisptastic: have a look at what-implementation is at telnet://clis.informatimago.com:8101 23:56:00 lisptastic: have a look at http://common-lisp.net/project/movitz/ 23:56:39 lisptastic: it's both 23:56:52 oh ok 23:57:57 You can use the standard alone, of course. Just read it. 23:58:00 timack [~timack@hlfx60-2a-226.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:58:05 Or use it as a doorstop. 23:58:12 Bike: it's not really surprising, I actually went through the same 23:58:22 what does ANSI stand for? is ANSI Common Lisp an implementation as well? 23:58:35 American National Standard Institute. 23:58:38 pjb: do you know where I could find this standard 23:58:39 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:42 lisptastic: Google is your friend here .... 23:58:48 yes 23:58:51 ok 23:59:14 -!- b__9 [~user@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:19 You could buy a copy from the ANSI, but they sell a cheap print of a badly scanned PDF. Better read the CLHS. 23:59:24 brown`: the question in itself wasn't void though 23:59:38 lisptastic: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 23:59:40 Bike: when I came to CL I had not really been exposed to multiple language implementations 23:59:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-154.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:50 the CLHS is not official ANSI standard, but it contains the same characters. 23:59:54 mooglenorph [~marco@70-90-96-161-ma-ne.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp