00:01:38 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 00:02:33 wow 00:03:00 your nickname reminds me a lot of _8david's for some reason (: 00:03:07 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:03:11 cheezus1 [~Adium@75-27-167-48.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:55 -!- meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:52 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 00:05:52 lifeng [~lifeng@bb121-7-108-184.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:06:29 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-27-167-69.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:08:18 nkraft [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:54 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:10:44 -!- dmizzle [~dmizzle@65-130-132-248.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:36 Dalek_Baldwin: contextl is quite interesting in that respect 00:13:31 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:14:22 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:14:51 yeah 00:15:05 there's so much stuff out there though 00:15:24 I keep reading arguments about whether or not AOP is a special case of COP or whatever 00:15:46 but I haven't had much of a chance to play with all these things 00:16:55 I ported my old 3-D renderer from c++ to lisp and now that I have it written nice and elegantly I want to use it as a playground for all these concepts 00:20:08 -!- nha [~prefect@f052237138.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:21:34 superflit_ [~superflit@75-171-207-50.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:07 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 00:30:50 meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:53 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:38:07 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:32 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:38:33 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 00:42:20 depends on what you want to do with mop? common themes are 1. simple stuff, like get list of class slots, or their types, or such 00:42:31 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-009-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:43:23 2. non-simple stuff is metaclasses and defining virtual slots and such.. There is a good virtual slots example on lispworks website, that i think everyone writing "magical" slots (ie virtual, or persistent or such) usually starts from 00:44:31 harish [~harish@119.234.131.107] has joined #lisp 00:44:45 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:45:46 3. defining another object system for interoperability. I've long wanted to make a C++ FFI :) 00:47:04 retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-159-164.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:07 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.170.255.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:47:58 4. DAO system 00:49:06 well dao is mostly persistent slots, with whatever additional class properties to specify relationships 00:49:19 5. UCW like web component system with backtracking for slots and different slot-value's for objects depending what 'frame' you are in\ 00:49:51 whats backtracking for slots, an undo/redo type thing? 00:50:01 *drewc* may disagree about "mostly persistent slots" because he has a DAO system where that is minimal 00:51:35 anyway my point is, that usually this example http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/LWUG/html/lwuser-173.htm is enough to get ppl started on it 00:51:40 whatever they want to di 00:51:42 do 00:51:55 if you are in frame where the slot-value is one, and there are multiple links that add 1/2/3/4 or 5 to the slot value ... you click on the second link 5 times, what is the value of the slot 00:53:01 drewc: no idea coz i don't know what "frame" means 00:54:00 *drewc* is not going to explain that. There are docs to UCW (: 00:54:18 yes! I want to do all those things 00:54:24 ah, I never used ucw so not familiar with lingo 00:55:36 well, there are other things that use frame to represent a 'frame' 00:56:23 smalltalk has a web system which does that ... so does scheme ... so does anything that has call/cc or similar 00:58:09 lisp-on-lines has something similar as well, where slots can have different values or exist/not exist depending on what 'description' is active 00:58:30 (descriptions are now based on contextL's layers ...) 00:58:38 drewc: any advance on the append-only btree, btw? 00:58:48 which reminds me! ContextL 00:59:09 kind of sounds too complicated just to pretend you not having page transitions 01:00:34 pkhuong: I have not done anything recently no ... looking at the repo I have not touched in in over a year :( 01:00:36 https://github.com/drewc/planks 01:01:30 maxm: I do not know what you are talking about ... page transitions are an important part of web apps! 01:01:38 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.131.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:01:44 -!- nkraft [~nkraft@ip72-192-253-246.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving on a jet plane...] 01:03:07 does have MOP in it though (: https://github.com/drewc/planks/blob/master/src/btree-class.lisp ... man, that is a long time ago since I even touched planks 01:04:46 pkhuong: I do remember that append-only btree's were great for functional programming. I also remember GC being a big deal, and that I decided to use postgresql in the product I originally wrote planks for 01:04:54 drewc: I thought that idea behind ucw was to hide page transition so you can write interactions with the user as you would via a blocking input/output terminal, ie so you can do stuff like (if (show-modal-dialog-to-user) (submitted) (cancelled)) 01:05:20 and that it was doing it via emulating call/cc.. Maybe I'm mixing UCW with some other framework tho 01:05:38 how does that hide the page transitions though? 01:07:41 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:16 well it hides them from the programmer, ie (show-modal-dialog-to-user) renders the page, then exits with call/cc, then once user submits the form or does other action, it comes back inside of the if statement and does either (submitted) or (cancelled) 01:08:35 at least thats how I imagined it, am I completely off my rocker here? 01:09:12 thought that was the whole point of bothering with continuation passing style and all 01:10:13 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.123.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:10:26 UCW hasn't used CPS in ages... 01:10:42 no, what you are talking about (kind of) makes sense ... but I still do not understand how page transitions are hidden ... the page transitions are quite important for that sort of thing... UCW even has something where once it is completed, you cannot hit back to do it again 01:11:23 That is not hiding that page transitions at all, it is an important part of the web application! 01:11:26 drewc: s/hiding page transitions/coding in direct style/. 01:11:37 oh 01:11:58 well, sure, we like coding in direct style! :) 01:13:20 https://github.com/drewc/ftw/blob/master/dispatcher/functional-dispatcher.lisp <--- my version of using call/cc for the web 01:14:03 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:14:19 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:14:25 UCW's version of call/cc : http://common-lisp.net/project/bese/docs/arnesi/html/Automatically_Converting_a_Subset_of_Common_Lisp_to_CPS.html 01:15:13 ignas__ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 01:18:25 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 01:18:37 -!- Codynyx [~Codynyx@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:19:28 I has been a while since I looked at UCW's call/cc stuff, though I do still use CALL and ANSWER every day because I have a product that is based on UCW that my clients want updated about twice a week :) 01:19:36 Codynyx [~Codynyx@c-75-72-28-122.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:28 the next version will use a smaller version of FTW because I no longer use UCW if I can avoid it. 01:21:40 not because UCW is bad or wrong or anything... just because it is no longer my 'thing' for such 'things'. 01:23:02 well after reading "getting started with ucw" document, as an un-interested party, its a something only lisper would love :-) 01:23:23 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.160.5] has joined #lisp 01:24:53 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:25:16 pkhuong, what does ucw use instead of cps? 01:25:41 Fare: an interpreter. 01:25:47 oh, ok 01:25:51 it does both it seems.. without cps it uses kind of a pseudo-language like (go-to) (answer) (call) 01:26:47 at least thats what I got from the "intro" document 01:27:58 ahem. So this asdf-finalizers thingie works great, but somehow, it looks like defclass processing at load-fasl-time causes the deftypes to be expanded and issue warnings because they are not run within finalizer support 01:30:49 maxm: CALL is a function, not a "pseudo-language" construct, whatever that is 01:31:57 Fare: what is asdf-finalizers all about? I am curious indeed! :) 01:33:00 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:22 lemoinem [~swoog@144-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:42 Fare: nm, I am looking at the gitweb now 01:34:11 *maxm* fills he won't get the terminology right until he actually tries the thing 01:37:54 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.250.223] has joined #lisp 01:38:19 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 01:38:22 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:42:26 Fare: well, I now want to play with asdf-finalizers... that is either a good thing or a bad thing. 01:42:27 drewc: actually looked at your LOL stuff, it makes much more sense to me then UCW intro.. at least the description/attributes part 01:42:57 *maxm* did similar thing for Qt, but in a kludgy way, yours is much more generic protocol 01:43:58 maxm: it used to make sense to me as well. It turns out that it does not anymore and there are 'easier' ways to do things without being so 'generic' :) 01:47:25 and, using contextl has issues because it is dynamically scoped ... whereas continuations are generally lexical ... now you can capture the dynamic env and use it later, when the cont is called, but that does not make a lot of sense for what I was trying to achieve 01:48:40 I do like the description/attribute names though! So will likely use them again, but in a much simpler form. 01:50:11 drewc: the racket guys have a story for continuations + dynamic scope. 01:50:30 yea I'm not sure what what contextL is or how its used, but the idea of (find-description obj) and then specializing presentation / attributes on description and obj is neat.. 01:50:45 I just converted qres to use asdf-finalizers' list-of. 01:51:19 Fare: does it end with "use a lexical variable to hold the dynamically scoped type stuff'? :) 01:51:56 drewc: no. It ends with "partial continuations carry part of the dynamic scope with them" 01:52:22 drewc: the way I did it when working in ANF was to capture frames representing dynamic scope/extent stuff like CATCH blocks, specials, BLOCK, TAGBODY, etc. 01:52:34 what Fare just said (: 01:52:47 ah, yeah ... that is what I did as well :) 01:52:47 *maxm* is wondering if his "code flattener" I used for CILK can be considered as kind of a relative to CPS 01:53:51 it lets you leave and re-enter the same lexical scope multiple times, with descent performance, but it can't handle flet/labels/unwind-protect.. Well it can, but you can not re-enter/exit from them 01:53:51 is the dual of a continuation a tinuation? 01:54:48 it basically take piece of code, lifts all variables into single big (let), and converts insides into one large (tagbody), rewriting inner LET's into (setq) 01:56:17 so would ucw/lol be good to look at as examples of MOP use? 01:59:10 now i use the monad to do dynamic/lexical/whatever you call it/ variables, and actually the continuation captures the state ... and it is not at all trying to emulate or interpet CL but rather a monad type thing 02:00:30 *eli* is infinitely amused 02:00:48 but don't you have then to write all your code with alternate names for all control structures? ie (let! (if!)) and such? 02:01:32 Dalek_Baldwin: I can recommend looking at UCW's use of MOP, as well as postmoderns use of MOP for DAO things. I cannot recommend LOL because , well, it is mine and I do not think it is that good or clear for MOP type stuff 02:03:31 I see 02:03:36 maxm: ALL the code? no. The things that actually use call/cc and state are about 4-5% of the code, basically only the web dispatchers and very few things otherwise. 02:03:48 trouble is I know absolutely nothing about databases or web programming 02:04:09 Dalek_Baldwin: what _do_ you know about? 02:04:21 Dalek_Baldwin: start with virtual slots example I pasted above then, its small above to play with, and does not have dependencies 02:04:23 graphics mostly 02:05:45 hrm .. i have no idea what kind of meta-objects would be used for graphics unfortunatly... 02:06:56 that virtual slots example looks kind of familiar, is it based on something that was in the AMOP book? 02:07:15 could be I guess 02:07:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:43 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:46 ahem. What name for a condition to raise when one tries to use finalizers but they are not enabled? 02:11:00 eli: what amuses you? 02:11:15 that CL is playing bad catchup? 02:11:34 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:11:37 No, that drewc went all the way to using monads. 02:12:04 define-condition finalizers-not-enabled (warning) () ? 02:12:29 well it was always my firm beleif that while CL/racket/clojure playing with continuations/monads/schmonads, some 15 year old guy is coding next facebook in php 02:12:35 I dislike them as a cheap solution for state in a stateless language, which only gets it to a language that suffers from the same diseases that a stateful one does. 02:13:13 ie thats why I said initially that "maybe its not worth it to go through contortions, just to hide a few details from a programmer (who is likely to be yourself anyway), since everyone rolls their own lib 02:13:26 no-finalizers ? 02:13:27 maxm: Not much you can do about that. Same as some other guy making millions by shouting "buy" and "sell" at the right moment. 02:14:00 -!- Archenoth [~user@96.51.223.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:13 eli: heh, thats what I'm doing actually.. All you need is to be right in 51% of cases, leverage or frequency does rest 02:14:24 finalizers-off 02:14:32 Thereyougo 02:15:38 Archenot` [~user@96.51.223.95] has joined #lisp 02:19:01 Xach: (ql:quickload :qlmapper) --> ; Evaluation aborted on #. 02:19:01 02:23:09 pjb: did you download qlmapper? 02:23:17 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:46 xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has joined #lisp 02:25:16 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 02:26:28 mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:34:25 johnn [~john@91.85.45.135] has joined #lisp 02:36:19 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@177.142.160.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:25 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-169-88-121.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 02:37:38 Guest16004 [~rouslan@pool-173-55-243-18.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:43 -!- Aethaeryn is now known as nyreahtea 02:40:24 wow, I'm looking at the sbcl source and I just noticed this about the loop macro: 02:40:26 (2) A clean "superset" extension of the ANSI LOOP which provides functionality similar to that of the old LOOP, but "in the style of" the ANSI LOOP. For instance, user-definable iteration paths, with a somewhat cleaned-up interface. 02:40:45 but I can't find any documentation on this 02:42:44 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:45:12 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:54 sbcl and several other loop implementations derive from a common MIT ancestor 02:46:03 -!- johnn [~john@91.85.45.135] has left #lisp 02:46:26 Xach: I expect quickload to download things for me, thank you :-) 02:47:20 does this mean it can do more than what's described in the hyperspec? 02:47:45 Yes, superset of the CL languages are allowed by the standard. 02:48:11 <|3b|> some of the things SBCL LOOP does beyond the spec are bugs though :) 02:49:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~confidant@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:04 is there any way I can find out about these extensions without having to look through the source? 02:50:35 I'm not seeing anything on this in the manual 02:50:45 Dalek_Baldwin: you want to steer away from any implementation specific extension. 02:50:56 pjb: qlmapper isn't and won't be distributed in the quicklisp dist 02:51:07 I see. 02:51:50 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-21-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:52:14 I'll decide where to steer once I've seen what it is 02:53:04 -!- beaky [~beaky@92.96.99.125] has left #lisp 02:53:16 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.130.187] has joined #lisp 02:53:26 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:37 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 02:56:35 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:58:50 -!- cheezus1 [~Adium@75-27-167-48.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:00:49 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:01 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:01:44 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:05:52 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 03:06:42 rbarraud [~rbarraud@ip-58-28-154-210.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:06:56 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 03:07:27 Yuuhi`` [benni@p54839ABB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:43 cheezus [~Adium@75-27-167-48.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:36 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:09:14 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839DA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:11:37 -!- shmore [~shmore@S01060026f31b5d58.hm.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:13:25 -!- ignas__ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:22:03 BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:29 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:22:57 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-242-14-97.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:25:21 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-242-14-97.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:24 gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:01 -!- nyreahtea [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:29:04 Hi, anybody know how to set up Slime to go into normal CL mode for files with a custom file extension? (I want to use .gdl and .gendl) 03:29:29 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:32:38 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:35:12 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:35:31 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 03:36:18 lispm [~lispm@g231144043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:36:57 -!- lispm [~lispm@g231144043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 03:36:57 -!- Guest16004 [~rouslan@pool-173-55-243-18.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37:06 lispm [~lispm@g231144043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:37:22 <|3b|> gendl: same as any emacs mode, see http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/AutoModeAlist, and use lisp-mode for lisp files 03:37:53 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:38:35 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 03:43:07 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128124245.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:44:11 |3b|: Cool, thank you. 03:44:34 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:44:49 kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:45:21 Next (and I think lastly): How about necessary tweaks for Quicklisp and asdf2 to make it recognize custom file extensions? 03:46:26 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:22 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 03:47:53 can I recommend using the same extensions that everyone else uses and focus on other things instead? 03:47:56 <|3b|> quicklisp shuldn't care, i think it says how to tell asdf about it at the end of http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/FAQ.html 03:48:21 *drewc* probably cannot 03:48:46 *|3b|* sometimes like to use something other than .lisp for things that aren't actually CL, but are close enough for the tools to work, like parenscript 03:49:36 <|3b|> just using .lisp is easier though, if you don't need to distinguish them by extension for other reasons 03:49:39 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-27-167-48.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:50:06 |3b|: true, I do tend to use .lisp-expr for, well, lisp expressions that are not lisp source code per se 03:50:19 <|3b|> if they are actually normal CL source files then using .lisp would probably be best 03:50:38 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:50:59 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:51:13 <|3b|> stuff like .asd is another reasonable case, where it is lisp code but expected to be loaded in some specific context 03:51:52 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@ip-58-28-154-210.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:16 for parenscript, I usually use .lisp because there is other lisp source in that file ... for .asd, that is true, I don't use a .lisp to defsystem 03:52:21 rbarraud [~rbarraud@ip-58-28-153-132.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:52:41 These are Gendl files, Gendl is a declarative language embedded in CL. 03:52:51 reasonable abbreviation is gdl 03:53:35 and of course I know how to make asdf use cl-source-file.cl because sometimes that is the extension for cl files ... at least the older stuff and some franz things 03:54:08 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55:15 Xach: Thanks, that's just what I needed 03:56:53 gendl, what kind of file extensions are you talking about? 03:57:01 gendl: well, in that case, don't listen to what I have to say! :) 03:57:07 how do you process .gdl files? 03:57:20 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@144-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:38 fare: the same as CL files. 03:57:48 then why a different name? 03:57:59 but see the asdf docs for an example 03:58:02 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.99] has joined #lisp 03:58:10 Well for one thing, the Gendl compiler has to be loaded first, to be able to process a .gdl file. 03:58:33 And, I'm teaching Gendl to non-Lispers, they get confused when I tell them to use ".lisp" as filename. 03:59:49 not terribly confused, but it's just one less thing to have to explain 04:00:19 have the .asd use a :defsystem-depends-on gendl 04:00:42 have the .asd use a :defsystem-depends-on (:gendl) and use (:gendl "foo") as your component type 04:00:59 gendl has a defclass asdf::gendl (cl-source-file) ... 04:01:40 how do i use the mop to finalize-inheritance for each and every class before I dump my image? 04:01:50 Fare: Ok. Sounds good. Thank you. 04:03:22 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:03:47 or have your gendl system use :default-component-class :gendl and use :file 04:03:49 <|3b|> drewc: yeah, i only use a different extension for PS-only files, and even then i think i've just been using .lisp lately 04:04:44 *|3b|* tries to keep parenscript code separate from normal lisp, since it is easier to let SLIME handle it differently that way 04:07:29 Fare: I usually have that in some other function that requires finalization for it to work... I don't think I have finalized each and every class before dumping though, and I am not sure how tbh 04:07:43 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:09:29 Fare: what about just explicitly including the .gdl file extension on each (:file ) entry in the :components 04:10:03 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 04:11:12 *Fare* iterates over every symbol, find-class x nil, and when a class is found, finalize-inheritance it. 04:11:31 gendl; read the docs about how file extensions work 04:11:41 you either want it everywhere or nowhere 04:11:45 Fare: that will work 04:12:05 man 04:12:12 sellout STILL hasn't merged my pull request >:/ 04:12:17 asdf 2 will NOT auto-guess, or worse, merge like asdf 1 04:12:41 Ralith: after 1 year and 1 day, you become the new maintainer and your tree is the new official tree. 04:13:08 good to know! 04:13:21 10 months to go. 04:14:10 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:58 -!- kwa1977 [~kwa@CPE-121-214-126-60.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 04:18:18 eli: heh ... just pgup'd the text and saw your comments about monads. We must have a different opinion / interpretation about what monads are/do 04:19:50 *Ralith* wasn't aware that was a matter of opinion 04:20:06 drewc: I have several negative opinions about them, wrt the state monad, my negative point in the context of Haskell is that it's trying to be this nice pure thing, then they add the state monad to cope with ... state, then your average haskell program looks like any other imperative goo. 04:21:11 drewc: BTW, my amusement was not completely justified though -- I thought that you used it for continuations, and assuming that it would be amusing for a CLer to resort to monads, of all things, to implement continuations... 04:22:07 Fare: From the asdf docs, it looks like if I use an actual #p"my-file.gdl" as a :file in :components, then it will literally go for the "my-file.gdl" file as a .lisp source file? 04:22:28 I do use the continuation monad to implement continuations 04:22:42 although " pathname objects should only rarely be used." 04:23:10 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.130.187] has quit [Quit: ] 04:23:27 drewc: Heh, consider my amusement reinstated, then... 04:24:02 (finalize-inheritance 'standard-class) ==> big trouble 04:24:18 eli: https://github.com/drewc/ftw/blob/master/dispatcher/monads.lisp#L113 04:25:58 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:26:41 eli: your average haskell program does not use the state monad [much]. 04:26:43 :P 04:26:54 drewc: your code looks like interface-passing style. Is it? 04:27:20 Fare: yeah, it is. 04:27:32 :-) 04:27:45 you saw I spawned lisp-interface-library off fare-utils 04:27:50 Ralith: Pretty hard to avoid it when the main function needs it... 04:28:13 I kind of has to be to implement such things in a dynamic language! :) 04:28:19 lemonodor_ [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:32 eli: the main function uses the IO monad, not the State monad, and it generally calls out to code not in the IO monad immediately. 04:29:05 eli: a program which did not do any IO would not be very useful. 04:29:11 Fare: yeah, I saw LIL ... I may actually use it when I have the time to look at it proper 04:29:43 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:29:43 Ralith: Yeah, state, io, all the same... The point is that it's there, in all programs. 04:29:52 eli: no, they're not remotely the same. 04:30:09 The same in the sense of haskell trying to compensate for things it doesn't have. 04:30:18 but it does have them--in the IO monad. 04:30:38 Right, which means that the illusion of a nice, pure language is just an illusion. 04:30:44 *drewc* thinks that LET* implements the identity monad ... 04:30:46 not at all. 04:30:59 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:30:59 -!- lemonodor_ is now known as lemonodor 04:31:05 Ralith: Please to define "not at all". 04:31:44 the only way to write impure code in Haskell is unsafePerformIO, which of course should never be used. 04:32:03 but this is offtopic; if you want to discuss further, I suggest we take it to #haskell. 04:32:45 Ralith: I'm not even talking about the unsafe hack, which is even more of a compensation for problems that have no good solution. 04:32:58 what problems? 04:33:31 it does not exist to "compensate" for anything. 04:33:32 I'm talking about things like the IO monad that encode IO in a purely functional data type, but can be used in the same way that any real IO code is used. 04:33:47 take it to #haskell 04:34:10 (Re the unsafe thing, I'm talking about things that some (Wadler?) paper was discussing, like reading configuration files. 04:34:11 ) 04:34:18 I have no interest in #haskell. 04:34:33 it would seem otherwise! 04:34:48 That's yet another illusion. 04:34:53 perhaps you should not hold strong opinions on things you have no interest in :P 04:35:04 The Haskell people IME tend to be pretty obnixious. 04:35:47 people on #haskell have been great to me.. 04:36:00 The best example being their thunderous ignoring of any lisp-related macro work -- when the joke is that they got to macros after a long period of claiming that they're not needed in a lazy language. 04:36:30 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:37:26 hum. 04:37:44 Ralith: Just to clarify -- I have some interest in Haskell, not all due to positive opinions, obviously, but I don't have interest in starting some flamewar in #haskell. 04:38:17 so... apparently, finalizing inheritance is not enough. 04:39:01 some of the list-of are from check-type statements, which only get evaluated at runtime - so code gets generated the first time such a type is checked. grrrrrrr. 04:39:51 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:41:47 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:43:06 -!- smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:43:29 *drewc* does not know much about haskell, but knows about monads... BIND and RESULT. 04:45:21 that's JOIN and MAP to you! 04:46:20 (defgeneric result (monad value)) 04:46:21 (defgeneric bind (monad monadic-value monadic-function)) 04:46:45 with the interface passed first! :) 04:47:51 nice 04:52:15 https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/smug.org#a-quick-word-on-monads <--- my quick word on monads 04:52:45 and with that, I am going to have a beer and then go to bed. gnight #lisp 04:53:06 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 04:53:53 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 04:54:56 *Fare* is once again baffled by CL evaluation times 04:55:08 some function uses a check-type 04:55:28 the type expansion uses my magic eval-at-toplevel 04:55:55 yet the functions are created neither at compile-time nor at load-time nor at runtime 04:57:14 at what point was this type expanded??? 05:04:05 cerebral_monkey [berkley@173.255.176.89] has joined #lisp 05:04:11 http://php.net/manual/en/language.variables.variable.php 05:06:20 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has joined #lisp 05:08:27 chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:08:27 -!- chu [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 05:08:27 chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 05:08:54 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:10:58 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:15:37 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@184.175.54.34] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 05:18:15 -!- lispm [~lispm@g231144043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:21:43 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:22:53 -!- mmalorni [~mmalorni@modemcable162.45-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:24:05 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:24:07 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:24:30 CrazyEddy [~Palaeosau@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 05:26:13 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:34 drewc: Your fn:3 is correct, but its implementation is not, you'd need to use something like `list' to demonstrate the potential effects of unspecified order. 05:31:20 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@ip-58-28-153-132.static-xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34:38 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.107.251] has joined #lisp 05:40:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:43:09 -!- Tuxedo [~tuxedo@bas1-cooksville17-1279271663.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:44:14 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 05:44:37 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:52 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 05:50:32 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed 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quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:03:51 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.135.228] has joined #lisp 07:07:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-21-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:07:55 -!- Archenot` is now known as Archenoth 07:10:13 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@a94-133-182-12.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 07:11:32 maxm: do you want the log4cl mailing lists at common-lisp.net or should i close them? 07:14:23 nha [~prefect@f052066042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:16:25 woo 07:16:34 finally worked out how to rebind [] to () 07:16:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@84.235.97.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:16:40 shiftless lisping here we come 07:17:09 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@a94-133-182-12.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 07:17:33 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:17:44 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:59 DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] 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[~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:25:39 pseudomander [~pseudoman@101.165.37.46] has joined #lisp 08:26:37 poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-70-116-22-88.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:27:04 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 08:29:12 Hey do I enable a function to use another function as it's argument, In such a context as this --> http://pastebin.com/S8Znk0kL 08:29:14 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-026.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:30:35 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:31:34 I'm just getting function f undefined. it appears not the associate functions with input arguments. 08:32:06 man funcall 08:32:06 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for funcall. 08:32:21 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:32:27 pseudomander: use funcall (funcall #'f arg1 arg2 ...) 08:34:28 Thanks alot daimrod! 08:34:57 <|3b|> clhs funcall 08:34:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_funcal.htm 08:34:58 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:35:21 <|3b|> ^ like that to get CL spec refs, 'man' is for unix/posix man pages 08:35:48 |3b|: oh, thank you :) 08:36:37 <|3b|> also, you don't want #' there, since the function object was a parameter 08:37:15 <|3b|> #' is for when you want to get the function object bound to a particular name in the function namespace 08:38:42 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:39:11 tcr [~tcr@46.184.191.90] has joined #lisp 08:39:15 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 08:39:32 lispm [~lispm@g231144043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:39:37 -!- lispm [~lispm@g231144043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:40:19 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:43:23 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-013-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:37 For give me if it should be obvious but after reading that and a few more results on google I've concluded to structure it as http://pastebin.com/3HWjcNFb 08:45:07 pseudomander: * does not mean what you think it means there 08:45:37 but I'm getting. FL [or a callee] requires more than two arguments although I believe I've filled all three requirements, how would it/is it possible to express what I'm attempting to? 08:46:07 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 08:46:08 pseudomander: it is entirely possible. what book are you reading to learn lisp? 08:47:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:47:47 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:48:04 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:48:12 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 08:48:18 flashback [fb@bitchx/dev/flashback] has joined #lisp 08:48:42 <|3b|> (funcall f (car l1) (car l2)) only passes 2 args to the function in F, not 3 08:49:40 pseudomander: (mapcar '* (list 1 2 3) (list 1 2 3)) maybe? 08:52:24 Thanks everyone, I just needed to call it as (fl (list 1 2 0)(list 1 2 3) '*) 08:53:22 Also is it pssibleto add functions to the lisp language in a persistent sense, so as to remain after the session without redefinition? 08:53:47 <|3b|> generally you write files containing the definitions, and load them when you want to use them 08:54:19 <|3b|> you can also same an 'image' containing whatever is currently defined, then restart that to get back to your current state (more-or-less) 08:55:01 raining_ [~abc@S01060026f396243f.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:56 pseudomander: slime helps a lot when both adding code to a file and applying its definitions interactively in the image; those files can be compiled and loaded into a new image 08:57:19 -!- raining_ [~abc@S01060026f396243f.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 08:57:35 for the second suggestion |3b| made, see save-lisp-and-die if you're using sbcl 08:58:35 cool, thanks heaps for the help, I'm over on #python if anyone has a question I'd be able to answer. 08:58:57 it's still always good to have the code in files, since it's quite easy to "corrupt" an image, especially when beginning with lisp 08:59:35 then loading a file is the easiest way to re-apply your changes into a new "virgin" image 09:00:07 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:21 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:04:06 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-21-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:06:01 jewel [~jewel@196-210-197-27.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:06:38 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 09:08:50 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Client Quit] 09:09:27 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 09:11:48 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Client Quit] 09:13:57 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:14:06 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.78.164] has joined #lisp 09:14:06 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.78.164] has quit [Client Quit] 09:14:14 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:16 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.78.164] has joined #lisp 09:14:16 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.78.164] has quit [Client Quit] 09:14:37 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.78.164] has joined #lisp 09:15:20 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 09:16:22 lucimeter [~triarchy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 09:19:08 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:35 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Client Quit] 09:21:42 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:04 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 09:24:23 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-21-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:33 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.142.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:33:16 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:41 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:37:57 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:38:03 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 09:39:36 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-21-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:45:38 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:46:23 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:46:31 H4ns: go ahead and close them, so far people just contacted me via email anyway. 09:47:21 on a related note, if someone can let me know how to "take over" entry in lisp directory, would be great.. Xach? do you know contact info for admin on cl-user.net? 09:48:34 -!- lucimeter [~triarchy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:48:35 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 09:49:06 -!- Guthur [~user@host31-53-155-234.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:38 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-bgcqyyeqyjypnbox] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:51:07 *maxm* actually did a pretty useful thing yesterday and added quick persistent save/restore of logging configs.. (log:save :blah) (log:restore :blah).. Coz I got tired of right-clicking and muting unrelated stuff when working on different areas of the project. 09:51:34 *because 09:52:41 madnificent: reminds me I actually the "artbollocks-mode" to my emacs setup, that highlights these words in really annoying font, but forgot to restart my irc emacs instance 09:53:46 LoL 09:54:14 maxm: I /think/ Marc Battyani is in charge of cl-user.net. (Though alemmens is listed in whois...so...one of them, prolly.) 09:54:21 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:45 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 09:57:15 *pinterface* idly wishes cl-user.net had a forgotten password UI. :/ 09:58:27 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:58:33 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has left #lisp 09:58:38 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 09:59:40 did someone answered my cl-user question while I was restarting? 09:59:42 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 09:59:55 maxm: ask the logs. 10:00:22 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:01:04 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:02:46 pkhuong: just did.. Yea I know its Marc Battyani, but googling him brings up lots of links with different contact info in them, I don't want to spam all.. tried g+ already 10:04:37 cthuluh [jca@chomsky.autogeree.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:01 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:41 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:05:41 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-197-27.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:06:12 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:37 *maxm* did not realized he was the novasparks guy 10:07:51 btw about novasparks, from briefly researching them, their product is not about trading, but about order book management.. Ie it would fit in at trying to fix what happened at nasdaq on facebook open.. 10:10:30 only problem is, when there are two actors competing A and B, on a exchange E, they both waiting for event X, and whoever detects X first, gets the money. So optimal strategy for both A and B, is to poll, which they do via fill-or-cancel orders. They do it as fast as exchange E can handle it.. If you make exchange E servers 10 times faster, A and B will just poll 10 times more frequently, still resulting in 100% load 10:11:49 *maxm* had a very similar situation (on much smaller scale) with a bidding website, where he thign "opens" at certain time, and the 1st person to click on a juicy item gets it.. ppl would just "click click click click", and even open 4 browser windows and use macro to click in all of them, to win 10:11:58 isn't there an algorithmic trader's channel where you can find someone to actually discuss this with you? 10:12:30 H4ns: thought it was interesting since novasparks was recommended to me here to check out 10:12:36 i'm not complaining, as i've gotten used to it, but i still kind of pity you as you seem not to be talking to anyone. 10:12:37 *maxm* shuts up 10:14:19 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:52 CrazyEddy [~wildernes@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:17:31 -!- pseudomander [~pseudoman@101.165.37.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:19:55 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:19:55 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:22:53 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:25:27 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:32:30 edgar-rft [~me@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:03 well, I thought it was interesting, but I have a tertiary personal interest in the subject. 10:34:22 it's only marginally on topic by accident. 10:37:28 sshirokov [~sshirokov@caladan.boot.sh] has joined #lisp 10:37:41 sbryant [~freenode@caladan.boot.sh] has joined #lisp 10:39:53 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-013-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42:29 Fade: yea my fault, I was overexcited thinking of generality of "if consumers poll for event, making system faster surprisingly does not improve response time at all" thing 10:43:45 It depends on how they decide to poll. 10:44:38 If they poll with a period proportional to their response latency, then it does. 10:45:34 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:46:18 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:51:50 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-237-76-181.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:53:44 Zhivago: yea I misspoke not response time but load on the system. Response time gets faster, but clients just submit more requests/sec, system utilization stays at 100%, and since usually there is queuing of requests, naive (non-flood-polling) consumers get the shaft, ie "I clicked, but it took 30 seconds to load and said it was no longer available" 10:54:21 AeroNotix [~xeno@bdb145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:55:00 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:29 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 10:59:23 hello. isn't it possible to write (setf assoc) that would work even on an empty list? (defun (setf assoc) (item list) .. ) can't modify passed list 11:01:29 You don't want to work on the list, but on the binding to the list. Consider PUSH. 11:03:04 I know. what I'm asking is, can this be made to work somehow? (let ((list nil)) (setf (assoc 'foo list) 10)) => '((foo . 10)) 11:03:52 not conformingly 11:06:13 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:23 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:11:50 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:15:00 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:28 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:44 Guthur [~user@89.185.154.122] has joined #lisp 11:20:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:22:00 -!- CrazyEddy [~wildernes@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:28:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-188.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:07 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:31:05 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:06 is there any library for connecting to twitter's streaming API? 11:44:19 there is afaik 11:44:41 cl-twitter 11:46:17 tweeeeeetyyyyy! 11:46:51 (ql:system-apropos "twitter") 11:48:14 cheers 11:48:30 I thought I've seen a kitty? 11:49:18 ah puddy cat 11:49:46 lol 11:55:25 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:57:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:00 Suthe [~Suthe@76.Red-83-33-87.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:23 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053004039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:08:11 orivej [~orivej@176.14.51.193] has joined #lisp 12:09:57 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:23 -!- nha [~prefect@f052066042.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:13:15 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.206] has joined #lisp 12:15:44 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:17:01 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:19:13 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:53 snearch [~snearch@f053004039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:24:59 -!- tcr [~tcr@46.184.191.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:25:16 -!- Guthur [~user@89.185.154.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:20 spree [~heffaklum@eduroam16-232.hh.se] has joined #lisp 12:29:57 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 12:35:13 hiyosi [~hiyosi@188.93.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:35:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:43 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:13 hunchentoot fails because of some dll for me 12:36:59 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:38:38 pseudomander [~pseudoman@101.165.37.46] has joined #lisp 12:40:29 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 12:48:18 Install openssl, or read the manual: "Note: You can compile Hunchentoot without SSL support - and thus without the need to have CL+SSL - if you add :HUNCHENTOOT-NO-SSL to *FEATURES* before you compile it." 12:48:57 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-000-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:04 http://hpaste.org/70625 12:49:53 I don't think initarg does what you think it does. 12:50:33 And incf/decf are useful. 12:51:32 http://hpaste.org/70626 12:51:53 pkhuong: i wanted it to set to zero for size but that didnt work 12:52:09 You didn't in-package after defining BST. 12:52:46 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:53:23 If you specify useful :initarg, you'll be able to initialise slots in the make-instance call, for a nice mostly functional style. 12:53:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:53:52 yeah so how do i? 12:54:13 You read. Either a book or the spec. 12:54:16 clhs defclass 12:54:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 12:57:28 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 12:57:37 tcr [~tcr@84.235.97.124] has joined #lisp 12:58:45 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:59:47 cant find anything useful in plc 13:00:41 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:56 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:18 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 13:04:11 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.135.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:06 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:05:08 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:11 sbcl --load quicklisp.lisp // isnt that how i load quicklisp into the repl? 13:10:31 agentbob: that's how you load it the first ime 13:10:42 s/agentbob/spree 13:10:51 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.203.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:13 how do you deploy on production servers? asdf? 13:16:12 first time? and then? 13:17:10 gko: asdf for some, images for others. 13:18:02 spree: and then you read the instructions quicklisp prints out when it's run for the first time. 13:18:30 Guthur [~user@89.185.154.122] has joined #lisp 13:19:32 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.35.219] has joined #lisp 13:20:29 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:21:16 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:21:33 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:23:40 but i didnt 13:24:04 you can run it again and read more skillfully this time. 13:25:32 if you add :HUNCHENTOOT-NO-SSL to *FEATURES* before you compile it." where do i do that? 13:25:45 the REPL is a fine place. 13:26:12 how do i add it to features and will it be added permanently? 13:26:52 You can add that to an init file. SBCL uses ~/.sbclrc; I don't know what that's called on windows. 13:28:00 but how do i write to add to features? 13:29:43 clhs *features* 13:29:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_featur.htm 13:30:57 benny [~user@i577A3FD3.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:27 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:32:32 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:32:51 so i cons it to *features*? 13:33:16 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053004039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:33:26 push it. 13:34:22 graphitemaster [~graphitem@unaffiliated/graphitemaster] has joined #lisp 13:36:10 Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-53-26.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 13:36:11 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-53-26.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 13:36:11 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 13:36:11 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:14 -!- graphitemaster [~graphitem@unaffiliated/graphitemaster] has left #lisp 13:36:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:18 i consed 13:39:43 but how do i push? 13:40:00 clhs push 13:40:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_push.htm 13:41:02 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:36 it says quicklisp is installed but i get error if i try to asscess the package cl 13:47:40 what do i have to do? 13:50:32 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:51:20 anyone know of a CL lib that will allow me to get location information from a longitude and latitude? 13:52:46 any information would be good, such as country post code etc 13:53:03 no, but I could give you a dcm program 13:53:38 Posterdati: dcm program? 13:54:28 is there anyway to get info on some cl libs in quicklisp ? 13:54:37 like a description of what it does ? 13:54:54 yes a rotating frame, with assigned angular speed, in open gl 13:55:04 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:17 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:02 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 13:57:24 nha [~prefect@f052067131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:57:55 nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:58:27 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:01 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-000-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:04:25 -!- benny [~user@i577A3FD3.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:05 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.117.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:10:54 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:11:10 How do you pull off a rot cipher ideally, I put together http://pastebin.com/eNGnaQZ9 but I'm wondering what kind of wizardry exists out there. 14:11:12 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:45 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:52 shit 14:12:12 I copied the wrong version, pretend I'd replaced the string with the input argument 14:12:17 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:13:12 pseudomander: code-char and char-code commute; much simpler than COERCEing. 14:13:13 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 14:13:28 I'd just use an array though. 14:13:29 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-189-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:39 I meant that http://pastebin.com/Lp54aWWW 14:14:54 How would that be done, I don't quite understand how to use initial-element properly with functions I've looked at a few examples but the best I've seen so far was sent to me on here when I inquired as to the construction of random strings 14:15:15 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-lwnewejinuvrqrdh] has joined #lisp 14:17:48 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 14:18:29 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:42 I'd use char-code and code-char, and map-into. 14:25:08 make-array is a function, so :initial-element is evaluated once. 14:26:38 -!- spree [~heffaklum@eduroam16-232.hh.se] has quit [] 14:28:17 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@76.Red-83-33-87.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:12 azkay [~Trale_Lew@c114-77-169-162.fitzg3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:29:20 Morning' 14:29:33 -!- Guthur [~user@89.185.154.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:54 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 14:31:47 -!- tcr [~tcr@84.235.97.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:33:10 -!- adeht [void@flash.ignite.lol.vc] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:33:10 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 14:33:14 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:33:47 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:34:15 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:34:49 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:54 ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has joined #lisp 14:35:35 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:36:16 -!- saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.35.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:39 -!- mal__ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:54 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:38:31 lemoinem [~swoog@103-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 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wah_java is now known as wahjava 15:07:12 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:07:27 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-lwnewejinuvrqrdh] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 15:07:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-21-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:09:29 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@bdb145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:09:37 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-32-151.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:10:34 -!- cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:12 tcr [~tcr@94.76.25.114] has joined #lisp 15:18:09 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-009-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:37 why do i have to assign more and more memory to sbcl on every update of quicklisp libs ? 15:19:44 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.78.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:13 it's on the lines of lapack ffi stuff.... 15:20:44 -!- ticking [~janpaulbu@87.253.189.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:20:47 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.250.223] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 15:21:35 is an array returned by SUBSEQ on a simple-array still a simple-array? 15:21:59 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 15:22:12 is subseq destructive ? 15:22:13 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-jwjfjdiawabfjxmd] has joined #lisp 15:22:26 minion: clhs subseq 15:22:27 you speak nonsense 15:22:33 clhs subseq 15:22:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_subseq.htm 15:23:00 ,df subseq 15:23:11 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.242] has joined #lisp 15:23:14 minion: describe subseq 15:23:14 you speak nonsense 15:23:23 nayyyyy 15:23:25 subseq always allocates a new sequence for a result; it never shares storage with an old sequence. The result subsequence is always of the same type as sequence.  15:23:42 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 15:25:21 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:25:41 thanks 15:26:49 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 15:27:28 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-jwjfjdiawabfjxmd] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 15:28:44 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:28:45 kensai [~kensai@dslb-188-099-239-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:35 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:48 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129030155.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 15:35:36 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:36:24 sellout [~Adium@c-98-229-86-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:20 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:14 -!- wahjava [unlegate@fsf/member/wahjava] has quit [Quit: Machines are always better than humans] 15:45:12 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:46:55 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 15:47:03 punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:05 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 -!- zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@124.90.130.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:51:47 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:52:28 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:47 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:55:50 -!- prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-71-249-63-193.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:56:19 prince_jammys [~mischa@pool-71-249-63-14.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:18 wah_java [quash@fsf/member/wahjava] has joined #lisp 16:01:22 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:41 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:06 -!- chu [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:06:31 pixelbrei [~user@83.125.62.242] has joined #lisp 16:07:02 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wloxjszzmcpyhrug] has joined #lisp 16:07:08 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 16:07:14 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:31 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:52 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:34 -!- wah_java [quash@fsf/member/wahjava] has quit [Quit: Machines are always better than humans] 16:10:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:10:56 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 16:11:12 minion: chant! 16:11:12 MORE AND MORE 16:14:34 LESS AND LESS 16:17:03 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:17:55 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:11 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 16:23:31 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:31 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:09 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:30:16 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:37 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 16:37:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:46 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-189-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:42:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:37 someone broke some lisp libs..... 16:45:40 afaik 16:45:43 lol 16:46:23 alarm red! 16:46:36 shields up! 16:47:07 (/me) 16:47:45 -!- paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has quit [Quit: paul0] 16:49:54 ?? 16:50:01 now i always get heap exhausted errors 16:50:03 during gc 16:50:03 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:50:05 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 16:50:05 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 16:50:08 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:50:12 right from the start when i load my libs 16:50:15 from my .sbclrc 16:50:30 happens after dgesvd of lapack 16:50:45 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:46 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:51 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:51 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:52 16 bytes available but 40 requested 16:50:56 meh 16:51:58 and backtrace shows mostly ffi stuff 16:52:25 homie: ... are you compiling stuff i .sbclrc? 16:52:31 maybe 16:52:37 i'll start without .sbclrc now 16:52:40 and see.... 16:55:35 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-189-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:55 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D3B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:15 Guthur [~user@host31-53-155-234.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:22 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:57:14 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176324030.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:57:35 What's the convention for declaring a class a mixin? (I like Java's `abstract' keyword.) 16:58:04 zort-: none 16:58:39 isn't abstract one for non-instantiables ? 16:59:21 that's what it means yeah 16:59:34 you can probably fix that with MOP, but you might get burned I think 17:00:15 zort-: many people call these classes -mixin 17:00:18 define an uncopyable class 17:00:30 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:00:31 antifuchs: good enough for me 17:00:35 homie: What's uncopyable? 17:00:37 I think that is pretty much good enough (: 17:00:43 zort-: documentation. Stupid people deserve to suffer. 17:00:54 a behaviour 17:01:01 an attribute 17:01:06 an adjective 17:01:22 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-009-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:01:23 maybe (defmethod initialize-instance ((o p_l|backup: class-of/find-class. 17:01:40 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:40 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:25 wahjava [sought@fsf/member/wahjava] has joined #lisp 17:02:44 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 17:03:38 ah 17:09:36 there seems to a bit sourness slipping into #lisp recently 17:10:55 you got it too ?! 17:13:09 me, nah, I'm as sweet as they come, hehe 17:13:23 zort-: There's a book about OO in Lisp that has quite a bit on mixins... Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS. 17:13:41 zort-: but yeah.. -mixin is a good route :) 17:18:25 -!- alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:20:39 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-opnkyefykakmukdl] has joined #lisp 17:20:46 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-opnkyefykakmukdl] has quit [Client Quit] 17:25:39 "The result subsequence is always of the same type as sequence." <- that's a specification bug; consider implementations that track sequence length in TYPE-OF. 17:27:20 huh ? 17:28:04 alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:28:06 length != type! 17:28:28 maybe in a special dsl 17:28:36 but not generally.... 17:28:37 AeroNotix [~xeno@bdb145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:28:44 homie: (type-of (make-array 3 :element-type 'integer))  (SIMPLE-VECTOR 3) 17:30:05 galdor: what's with it ? 17:30:29 well the type can include length information 17:31:15 yea but type is not solely based on length! 17:32:22 are lisp types more of a composite and relate more with has-a relationship ? 17:32:43 or inherited with a is-a relationship ? 17:34:59 homie: it's not 'part' of the type. It *is* the type. 17:36:37 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D3B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:06 ok then i see..... 17:38:07 meh 17:40:56 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:20 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:47:13 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-104-224-112.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:42 free-thinker [~androirc@92.40.253.139.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:50:46 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 17:51:43 gabnet [~user@ACaen-257-1-110-72.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:54:15 -!- gabnet [~user@ACaen-257-1-110-72.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:20 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:54:43 gabnet [~user@ACaen-257-1-110-72.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:55:12 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-028-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:35 I have 3 methods on three classes which are identical except for the type in a THE statement. I feel like there is a dry way to write this? or did I miss something completely? 18:00:16 the ? 18:00:33 isn't that like dereferencing pointers ? 18:00:52 or references.... 18:01:05 and bypassing type-checks ? 18:01:19 yep 18:01:28 im optimizing some input routines 18:01:36 ah 18:02:54 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:59 Are you getting good performance increase from this optimization? 18:05:05 not stellar but yes 18:05:08 noticeable 18:06:26 Cools. 18:06:29 Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-232-106.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-232-106.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 18:06:29 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 18:06:55 There's probably some neat way to refactor it all, yeah. 18:07:02 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:55 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:15 -!- azkay is now known as azkay|slp 18:15:53 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:19:33 -!- gabnet [~user@ACaen-257-1-110-72.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:21:49 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-qilqkbubzfmqswrt] has joined #lisp 18:21:51 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:26:02 stickycake_ [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:02 RomyRomy_ [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:27:56 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:27:57 -!- stickycake_ is now known as stickycake 18:29:12 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:29:15 paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 18:29:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:49 -!- p_l [~pl@089-101-219086.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:13 ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has joined #lisp 18:37:44 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:25 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:41:55 karlosz [~lambdakne@cpe-67-10-75-19.rgv.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:01 -!- karlosz [~lambdakne@cpe-67-10-75-19.rgv.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:42:18 karlosz [~lambdakne@cpe-67-10-75-19.rgv.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:36 -!- ez271 [506d3e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.109.62.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:52 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:54 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:46:02 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-104-224-112.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:29 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@103-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:50:56 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.118] has joined #lisp 18:52:27 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:37 sezo: it's perfectly possible to write a conforming setfer that does what you want. But SETF must return the last value assigned: (let ((list nil)) (list (setf (assoc 'foo list) 10) list)) => (10 ((foo . 10))) 18:56:27 -!- benatkin [~bat@68-71-141-194.servers.zerigo.net] has left #lisp 18:57:19 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:00:43 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:32 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:02:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:29 -!- free-thinker [~androirc@92.40.253.139.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:06:03 -!- karlosz [~lambdakne@cpe-67-10-75-19.rgv.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:07:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:55 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:09:30 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:15 (good morning 'lisp) 19:15:13 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-028-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:17:04 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.42.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:18:08 xrash [~rash@201-95-211-158.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:19:43 -!- scrimohsin [~shamber@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: scrimohsin] 19:19:43 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:02 ,yow 19:21:18 durp 19:21:18 not here. 19:22:05 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:22:45 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:48 gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:42 -!- xrash [~rash@201-95-211-158.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:27:58 Hi, in asdf is it not possible to specify a pathname as a :file for a :component, e.g. with (:components (:file #p"some/path/to/file.lisp" )  ) ? 19:29:10 I'm getting ``No methods applicable for generic function # with args 19:29:10 (# 19:29:11 #P"slide-show/source/package.lisp") 19:29:12 of classes (asdf:system pathname) '' 19:30:05 I'm trying to use a pathname object here is to be able to override the component-type default file type... 19:30:20 * the reason I'm trying 19:31:40 gendl: (:file "some/path/to/file") 19:31:58 or (:file "foo" :pathname #p"some/path/to/file.lisp") 19:32:06 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:32:07 Note that #p"..." notation is NOT portable. 19:32:26 I noticed that warning about non-portability from the manual 19:32:36 though these days, everyone is unix or windows, and you can kind of make it work. 19:32:53 but - why do you hate genera and rmcl users? :-) 19:34:03 the notation (:file "some/path/to/file") is more portable 19:34:21 as the slashes are parsed by asdf itself 19:34:47 Well when Gendl is ported to those platforms, we will extend our compatibility layer to handle the pathname issue. 19:34:54 :) 19:35:04 why not just use asdf's portability layer? 19:35:19 -!- paul0 [~paul0@186.222.48.210] has quit [Quit: paul0] 19:35:38 yes, if possible we will just use that. 19:35:54 right now I am extending code which auto-generates our .asd files, 19:36:10 ok 19:36:11 the goal is to be able to mix & match .lisp, .gdl, and .gendl files in the same source/ directory 19:36:20 no problem 19:36:38 so it looks like I have to do it with pathname objects 19:37:03 -!- pseudomander [~pseudoman@101.165.37.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:37:54 Cannot have two of the same named :file's in the same :component, right? 19:38:10 -!- RomyRomy_ [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy_] 19:38:12 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 19:38:14 So we cannot have (:file "file" :pathname #p"some/path/to/file.gdl") and 19:38:29 (:file "file" :pathname #p"some/path/to/file.lisp") 19:38:29 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:30 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:30 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:32 living together, right? 19:39:07 I'll have to conflate a unique name for each extension, just like (:file "file.gdl" :pathname "some/path/to/file.gdl") 19:39:26 and (:file "file.lisp" :pathname "some/path/to/file.lisp") 19:40:18 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 19:41:24 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@76.Red-83-33-87.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Suthe] 19:43:39 yep -- confirmed that -- just got error "multiple components are given same name  " 19:44:19 each name actually has to have path info prepended too, lest there be two "package.lisp" for example, in two separate subdirs, in the same :component. 19:47:41 you could have a :gendl and a :gdl file types for the two extensions 19:47:53 and use :pathname to override 19:48:34 why not include the path in the name??? 19:48:44 pixelbre` [~user@83.125.62.242] has joined #lisp 19:48:47 it's the recommended way for asdf2 19:50:29 -!- pixelbrei [~user@83.125.62.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:51:24 ok did that it's working now for .lisp files 19:51:31 trying for .gdl files now... 19:53:58 Yes! it appears to work for .gdl files now as well.. . 19:54:13 so I have stuff like this in the .asd file now: 19:54:17 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:54:35 :components 19:54:35 ((:file "slide-show/source/package.gdl" :pathname 19:54:37 #P"slide-show/source/package.gdl") 19:54:38 (:file "slide-show/source/assembly.lisp" :pathname 19:54:38 #P"slide-show/source/assembly.lisp")  ) 19:54:53 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:35 but now i can start migrating the names to .gdl at my leisure, without having to do them all in one shot, and just keep regenerating the .asd files 19:56:03 actually those should be reversed! It should be package.lisp and assembly.gdl .. 19:57:22 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:34 Fare: anyway Thank You, I'll try to work on my own now for a while :) 19:57:43 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:59:42 :components ((:gdl "slide-show/source/package") (:lisp "slide-show/source/assembly") ...) 20:00:31 or with an extension-less default-component-class, (:file "slide-show/source/package.gdl") (:file "slide-show/source/assembly.lisp") 20:00:43 I discourage using :pathname 20:01:25 except when you really can't do without for some reason (i.e. not under the same tree, or using magic characters or extensions) 20:02:47 That first way looks easy, I will try it now. 20:03:07 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:32 But will it just recognize the component-type :gdl without additional setup or class definition? (don't have to answer, I'll find out in a few seconds here) 20:04:33 you need to define asdf::gdl and asdf::lisp as classes 20:04:53 Ok, just like you were saying last night 20:04:59 (defclass asdf::gdl (cl-source-file) ((:type :initform "gdl"))) 20:05:13 (defclass asdf::lisp (cl-source-file) ()) 20:05:25 or something 20:05:30 got it. Trying now 20:05:53 I recommend putting those defclass in a system that you :defsystem-depends-on 20:06:26 and/or using a (defclass asdf::lisp-file (cl-source-file) ((:type :initform nil))) 20:06:34 using it as your :default-component-class 20:06:45 and then always specifying the extension of a :file 20:07:03 whether it's lisp, gendl or gdl 20:07:47 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:07:57 if you want your syntax to vary from Lisp, you may consider asdf-finalizers, reader-interception, package-renaming, and the :around-compile feature in general 20:08:12 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:36 that's my effort to make CL suck less. 20:08:55 lambda-reader is nice, too 20:10:01 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:08 jewel [~jewel@196-210-197-27.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:13:16 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 20:16:27 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 20:18:58 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has joined #lisp 20:19:07 my syntax doesn't vary from Lisp. 20:19:21 Gendl is just one macro, essentially: define-object 20:19:36 that takes keywords and expressions, the syntax is all CL. 20:19:57 "embedded language" 20:20:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:02 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 20:21:16 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-52-215.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:25 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-184.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:42 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:00 should be (defclass asdf::gdl (asdf-utilities:cl-source-file) ((:type :initform "gdl"))) right? 20:24:04 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-184.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:31 Suthe [~Suthe@76.Red-83-33-87.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:42 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:25:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-155.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 20:27:24 -!- pixelbre` [~user@83.125.62.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:29:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-217.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:29:51 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ddenvektyoqfhuzm] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:30:29 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-rxmdfeszlfulnvfw] has joined #lisp 20:31:14 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.82.19] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 20:31:45 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:13 rryoumaa [~user@ip68-226-110-213.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:29 -!- rryoumaa [~user@ip68-226-110-213.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #lisp 20:32:40 help lookups 20:32:41 CrazyEddy [~piscation@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 20:32:51 help 20:34:58 Yes it works fine with, for example: (defclass asdf::gendl (asdf-utilities:cl-source-file) ((type :initform "gendl"))) 20:35:32 then: :components ((:gendl "slide-show/source/assembly")) 20:35:53 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 20:36:17 note type is not a keyword symbol in the class definition --- it's (type :initform "gendl") not (:type :initform "gendl") 20:36:59 jay01 [~dxxx@unaffiliated/stafford] has joined #lisp 20:37:02 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-197-27.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:37:31 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:37:54 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@76.Red-83-33-87.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:29 -!- jay01 [~dxxx@unaffiliated/stafford] has left #lisp 20:39:08 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:33 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 20:40:01 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:12 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 20:40:19 I will check into the need for :defsystem-depends-on -- but i know for sure those class definitions will be loaded in the bootstrapped system, before there are any attempts to operate on any system which has components of type :gdl, :gendl, or :lisp. 20:40:21 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-110-72.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:41:13 But it might be a good habit to include :genworks-gdl in any defsystem which uses those component types, in case someone gets ahold of such a .asd file and gets frustrated with errors about unknown component types... 20:41:19 That's the point of defsystem-depends-on, right? 20:41:52 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D3B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:01 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 Hello everyone 20:42:25 Does anyone know if the cl-cookbook project is still alive? 20:45:23 it's hibernating, almost mummied 20:45:28 *mummified 20:45:52 thats too bad. there is some stuff up there that I've found helpful. 20:47:21 sellout: oy, pull request is *still* pending 20:48:03 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-021-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:03 irpanech6 [~user@S0106000024ccea30.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:36 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:56:10 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 20:56:12 drc [~drc@unaffiliated/drc] has joined #lisp 20:58:33 Kryztof: are you a paiprolog maintainer? 20:59:01 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:59:27 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:49 karlosz [~lambdakne@cpe-67-10-75-19.rgv.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:43 -!- drc [~drc@unaffiliated/drc] has left #lisp 21:13:45 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p54839ABB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:43 -!- Longshot__ [Longshot__@180.183.165.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:16:02 Longshot__ [Longshot__@180.183.83.172] has joined #lisp 21:16:02 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-qilqkbubzfmqswrt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:11 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-nrwjfvpebdzszhdl] has joined #lisp 21:18:19 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:37 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@cocytus.blisses.org] has joined #lisp 21:19:37 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@cocytus.blisses.org] has quit [Changing host] 21:19:37 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 21:21:23 meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:02 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-68-41-192-171.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:23:02 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-189-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:24:36 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-189-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:11 Matt___ [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has joined #lisp 21:27:32 sorry 21:27:33 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:27:51 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:28:06 I've read that programming languages are catching up to lisp, and I'd like to know whether lisp is advancing itself. if so, what direction is it taking? 21:28:13 *that other programming 21:29:06 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:29:34 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-nrwjfvpebdzszhdl] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:29:55 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ixbwurwbsnpaxyfg] has joined #lisp 21:29:55 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:36 Matt___: The ANSI spec is stable  implementations are getting better and the ecosystem of libraries and support tools is growing. 21:31:49 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ixbwurwbsnpaxyfg] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:55 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:33:46 okay, thanks, I'm not sure if that really answered my question though, I meant more like this: http://www.paulgraham.com/icad.html 21:34:01 paul graham gave a list of why lisp was different 21:34:42 I was wondering if there are more differences being created that's giving lisp a new foothold over other languages 21:34:55 k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:36:47 gendl: do NOT use asdf-utilities -- it's an obsolete backwards compatibility name for asdf. 21:37:53 how does gendl differ from CLOS? Is it class-based or prototype-based? 21:38:43 Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:19 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@bdb145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:40:57 -!- wahjava [sought@fsf/member/wahjava] has quit [Quit: Machines are always better than humans] 21:42:40 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-110-72.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:45:23 Matt___: As the standard is there, and there are no (serious) plans to create a newer one, everything's hapenning in the libraries. Have a look around the cliki, there are libraries implementing new/other ideas/paradigms in programming. 21:45:28 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.135.228] has joined #lisp 21:45:55 alright, thanks, I appreciate it 21:46:01 -!- Matt___ [60fd6497@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.100.151] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:48:37 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:48:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:49:34 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 21:49:49 hocwp [~user@AAmiens-552-1-107-22.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:49:59 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:50:20 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host76.190-228-122.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:50:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:53 -!- hocwp [~user@AAmiens-552-1-107-22.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:54:08 hocwp [~user@AAmiens-552-1-107-22.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:56:29 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 21:57:56 -!- tcr [~tcr@94.76.25.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:58:04 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-189-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:52 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:08 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.135.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:02:39 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:13 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089D3B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:03:20 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-75-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:51 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:04:53 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05:13 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: .] 22:05:37 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-021-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:06:39 r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.101] has joined #lisp 22:06:47 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:07:01 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@119.111.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:09:02 -!- irpanech6 [~user@S0106000024ccea30.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:48 -!- meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:52 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:10 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has joined #lisp 22:15:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:19:45 I want to check if two arbitrary lists contain the same elements according to #'test, if their sort order is arbitrary, and I can't force same sort order.. So far it seems (set-exclusive-or seq1 seq2 :test #'test), but seems there must be some cleverer way? 22:21:46 (and (subsetp a b :test (function test)) (subsetp b a :test (function test))) 22:22:33 But yes, set-exclusive-or sounds nice too. 22:22:51 well, I did not know about subsetp before, so still useful 22:23:31 (set-exclusive-or a b) = (union (set-difference a b) (set-difference b a)) 22:25:14 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:26:26 (every #'pred a b) ? 22:26:50 oh, that's not parallel traversal like mapcar 22:27:24 no, it is. That should work 22:27:29 with a 2-arg pred 22:28:00 looks like alexandria has a nice set-equal 22:28:03 do you mean when they're unsorted though? 22:28:06 would not work even if it was, coz they are not sorted. I can sort them, but they are multisets, ie some elements have no way of ranking them, and initial order comes from them being collected from EQ hashtable, so its kind of random where elements of the same rank end up 22:28:26 took me half a day to chase this bug, I thought I was going crazy with sort then mismatch not working 22:28:36 like only sometimes not working 22:28:49 cyphase_ [~cyphase@adsl-99-22-94-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:50 is your test hashtable-compatible? I've solved this issue using those 22:28:50 -!- karlosz [~lambdakne@cpe-67-10-75-19.rgv.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:29:12 though I guess multiset throws a wrench in that, too... 22:29:34 -!- r_r_r [~chatzilla@77.127.35.101] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 22:37:54 -!- Myk267 [~myk@71.149.250.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:18 -!- poisonarms [~poisonarm@cpe-70-116-22-88.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:39:57 -!- alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:43:04 -!- punee [~punee@set25-1-88-166-168-141.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:43:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:43:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:16 alexander__b [~alexander@140.100.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:50:07 karlosz [~lambdakne@cpe-67-10-75-19.rgv.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:54 mcspiff [~user@CPE78cd8ec16698-CM78cd8ec16695.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:06 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:41 Kvaks [~quassel@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 23:05:09 -!- cyphase_ is now known as cyphase 23:05:30 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@adsl-99-22-94-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:05:30 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 23:06:23 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.200.61] has joined #lisp 23:06:24 -!- magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:07:20 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:25 magnificrab [~duranain@202.168.106.176.dynamic.rev.eftel.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:41 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.204.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:10:09 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:40 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:15:05 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wloxjszzmcpyhrug] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:19:19 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:07 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:56 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:25:14 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 23:26:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:14 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.165] has joined #lisp 23:27:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:38 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@99.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Suthe] 23:36:57 -!- Guthur [~user@host31-53-155-234.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]