00:01:12 -!- Suthe [~Suthe@113.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Suthe] 00:04:09 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:10 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:07:56 cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has joined #lisp 00:08:33 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:03 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-jufmegefllraqlii] has joined #lisp 00:21:39 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 00:28:00 mcspiff [~user@CPE78cd8ec16698-CM78cd8ec16695.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:29 carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-4-115.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:46 -!- tiripamwe [29dd9f54@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:49:00 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:07 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:49:16 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:31 i am defining a metaclass and i would like to have one of the slots in my metaclass sort of inherited as a class slot of classes using it 00:50:07 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:50:51 -!- Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:51:34 Zol [~Zolomon@li152-84.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:46 so, e.g., the instance-allocated slot of the metaclass can be treated as a class-allocated slot of the class 00:51:53 is this possible? 00:52:13 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-4-115.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:52:15 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:52:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:12 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:54:27 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:54:48 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 00:55:37 http://paste.lisp.org/+2SI7 00:58:19 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810196.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:58:46 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:59:29 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:01:09 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:20 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx56-2b-72.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:07:01 -!- superflit [~superflit@209-180-240-24.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:10:29 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 01:13:21 christop1er [~christoph@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 01:13:59 -!- christop1er [~christoph@67.197.37.202] has left #lisp 01:20:37 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:05 superflit_ [~superflit@75-171-209-239.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:06 S11001001 [~sirian@c-98-216-249-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:17 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@c-98-216-249-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:21:17 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 01:21:57 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-jufmegefllraqlii] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:22:25 carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-4-115.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:41 I've been looking around and haven't found a lot of information (maybe I'm Doing It Wrong) about multicast sockets in SBCL. Is there direct support or do I need to set up some defcfun ? 01:24:27 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has left #lisp 01:25:45 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 01:28:19 ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has joined #lisp 01:29:30 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-194.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:31:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-173-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.1] 01:31:45 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-gonfuskrufdmfknq] has joined #lisp 01:38:23 zulu_inuoe: you could try creating a :datagram socket, and either connect/bind it to a multicast address, and/or use the address argument of socket-send, probably 01:39:10 Well since you don't have to do anything special for -sending- over multicast, I'd wager that works. But receiving is another story 01:40:31 there's socket-bind 01:42:14 pnq [~nick@ACA214AC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:19 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 01:42:33 Right, but I was under the impression that you had to do the whole IP_ADD_MEMBERSHIP thing to actually receive anything that multicast group sends out 01:42:56 http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Multicast-HOWTO-6.html 01:43:51 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:43:51 ah that could be possible depending on OS 01:45:00 random question for #lisp, but has anyone modeled RDF in CLOS? I'm trying to think of how I want to handle sub-properties and I've hit a bit of a wall... 01:45:05 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Socket-Options.html#Socket-Options doesn't list those options, but you could check if they exist 01:46:16 Why not model them as properties? 01:46:59 lolsuper_ [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:46:59 lolsuper_ [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:47:42 mcspiff: be wary of over enginering. A mere plist might be more than enough. 01:48:13 -!- Trystam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:40 I suggest always defining your accessors before making such decisions. 01:48:51 Function defines form, and so on. 01:49:14 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:27 phadthai: Took a look at sockopt.lisp from the 1.57 source and it's not in there. For now I'll hack up a solution and maybe later I'll add it in there (after I verify that it works) 01:51:21 phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:21 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:51:21 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 01:51:42 hmm back when I wrote multicast daemons I didn't need such options though, to use 224.0.0.1, but it was on BSD 01:52:31 I'm on Windows 7, and last time I tried to do multicast in C I'm pretty sure I needed to set those options 01:52:50 I remember that on mingw I did need to do something special but I forgot which 01:52:57 with winsock 01:53:07 Zhivago: thats where I'm at currently. Its just a neat problem. Each slot I have currently models a set basically. But I need a way to state that set Foo is a subset of set Bar. 01:53:33 Which leaves me wondering how I even want my accessors to work.. 01:53:53 zulu_inuoe: yeah it wouldn't be too hard to add those options I think, probably that they should check for linux in *FEATURES* though 01:54:03 -!- mathrick_ is now known as mathrick 01:54:32 zulu_inuoe: or windows of course for its specific required options if any 01:54:43 superflit [~superflit@65-128-40-83.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:02 -!- superflit_ [~superflit@75-171-209-239.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:55:37 mcspiff: The most useful idea in TDD is to force people to design their use-cases first. 01:55:41 oh.. hmm I now remember that it was a patch for SDL_net that I had sent for multicast to work on windows with it 01:55:55 That alone justifies most of the rest of the snakeoil they peddle. 01:56:07 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.116.112.221] has joined #lisp 01:57:13 phadthai: That's cool. I'll test it out tomorrow and get back to you. Thanks for the help 01:57:36 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:58:31 Zhivago: You know what, good point. I think I need to have a better idea how I want these regular sets to work first before I get too into the edge cases 01:58:38 zulu_inuoe: so SDL_net might serve as a reference is necessary, as it should support it now. Good luck 01:58:45 s/is necessary/if necessary/ 02:00:59 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:02:19 phadthai: Oh that sounds good. 02:03:02 jingtao [~jingtaozf@220.191.186.26] has joined #lisp 02:03:10 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@120.152.47.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:37 DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@120.152.47.119] has joined #lisp 02:18:18 -!- wag is now known as skalawag 02:20:23 springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has joined #lisp 02:26:20 lusory [~lusory@bb115-66-194-180.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:28:29 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@75-101-56-253.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:31:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:33:37 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 02:37:50 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:41:52 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.222.187] has joined #lisp 02:48:03 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:48 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA214AC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:51:13 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:53:02 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:00:05 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:10 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:06:06 Yuuhi``` [benni@p54839782.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:00 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B9EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:20:18 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 03:22:08 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:59 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:24:42 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:32:14 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:36:36 pnq [~nick@ACA23B6A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:39:23 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:09 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@201-58-229-66.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 03:41:50 -!- lolsuper_ [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:43:12 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has joined #lisp 03:47:14 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:23 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:01 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:48:11 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@124.131.12.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:49:05 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:29 -!- pjb is now known as Guest45128 03:49:45 -!- Guest45128 is now known as pjb 03:57:14 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@8-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:33 lemoinem [~swoog@249-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:06 I believe I've just encountered https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/310120 ... is it still outstanding? 04:02:48 Looks like it. You could wrap it in an eval-when for now? 04:03:13 you mean wrap the defclass in an eval-when? 04:03:17 so it's available for macro expansion? 04:03:54 The defclass, yes. 04:03:58 sigh 04:04:07 i have some number of these, i might as well wrap the whole file 04:04:10 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.111.172] has joined #lisp 04:04:18 or, can i break it into 2 files? 04:04:31 are all the files compiled in one huge compilation environment, or is it file-by-file? 04:05:04 <|3b|> generally you load files after compiling them to get side effects like that 04:05:31 so if i have file1 and file2 in an asdf system, in that order 04:05:42 can i put my defclasses in file1 and have my macro in file2? 04:05:52 to avoid having to wrap all the defclasses in eval-when, if they are in same file? 04:06:02 <|3b|> sounds right 04:06:17 now is that a side-effect of using asdf? 04:06:29 meaning, it compiles and loads file1 before hitting file2? 04:06:37 <|3b|> right 04:06:46 <|3b|> (assuming it knows there is a dependency between the files) 04:07:09 gotcha, but in general, for portable common lisp, i can't count on runtime environment of file1 being available in compile environment of file2 04:07:26 right? 04:07:35 hence the clause in clhs which sbcl breaks :( 04:07:45 <|3b|> well, if you aren't using asdf, it depends on what you did to compile and/or load things 04:07:47 however my project insists on asdf so let me try that 04:08:10 i had enough metaclasses here that breaking it into another file is cleaner, but i still has a sad 04:08:12 <|3b|> if you aren't using asdf, you would need to do the (load (compile-file ...)) by hand or whatever in the proper order 04:08:31 <|3b|> or just use a non-buggy implementation (possibly by fixing sbcl) 04:09:07 i would love to know how to help 04:09:16 from the notes on the bug it looks like that's a hairy one 04:10:15 <|3b|> well, i'd say minimum help would be to make a note on that bug that you ran into it too, so devs can prioritize it more accurately :) 04:14:32 <|3b|> not sure how hard it would be to actually fix... if you want to try, you might try asking on sbcl mailing lists or #sbcl if anyone has pointers on where to look or how to fix it 04:14:59 oh there's an #sbcl? 04:15:23 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 04:16:00 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:17:47 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 04:18:23 ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:58 -!- Kron_ is now known as Kron 04:22:40 -!- shupfs [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:26:22 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 04:28:31 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:15 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:30:39 DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 04:37:17 -!- ozialien [~ozi@ip68-0-179-160.tc.ph.cox.net] has left #lisp 04:37:58 The class named NET.QUADIUM.EMS::EVENT follows the class named NET.QUADIUM.EMS::EVENT in the supers of the class named NET.QUADIUM.EMS::MEDICAL-EVENT.. 04:38:02 should that ever be possible? 04:39:07 -!- benny [~benny@i577A89B8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:41:01 stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.142.238] has joined #lisp 04:41:35 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:56 -!- borkman is now known as shupfs 04:43:28 -!- shupfs is now known as SHUPFS 04:46:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:51:21 Have anyone ever tried to read java string in lisp? I'm using this code: (flexi-streams:string-to-octets (read-line stream) :external-format :utf-8) but it doesn't work correctly. Sometimes I get this: #(63), but then I get something like this: #(2 0 28 0 72 0 105 0 84 0  0 54 0). Is it OK or not? 04:52:24 I've forgotten to notice that I need just char codes. 04:53:58 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:54:17 (loop for x = (read-char stream nil nil) while x collecting x) doesn't work correctly too. It returns lots of #\Nul. Yeah, I know that I can just remove them, but it's not a solution of the problem. 04:58:46 And could someone explain me what does #\Stx and #\Fs means? 04:59:16 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:23 -!- mcspiff [~user@CPE78cd8ec16698-CM78cd8ec16695.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:02:01 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has joined #lisp 05:05:04 hitecnologys: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/chars/c0.html 05:05:50 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.142.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:37 -!- SHUPFS is now known as borkman 05:06:54 H4ns: Oh, thanks a lot. 05:07:10 -!- borkman is now known as SHUPFS 05:18:14 stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.142.238] has joined #lisp 05:19:36 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 05:20:26 benny [~benny@i577A1F39.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:21:53 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 05:28:40 hitecnologys: you're doing it wrong. 05:29:16 hitecnologys: UTF-8 is a binary stream. You need to read octets, and use flexi-streams (or babel) to convert them to characters! 05:29:34 (or just use a character stream with an external-format specifying the utf-8 encoding and be done with it). 05:33:07 Hmm~ What difference between dolist and mapcar? Except for tags 05:33:07 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vafvvadnzlxcwuhc] has joined #lisp 05:33:08 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vafvvadnzlxcwuhc] has quit [Changing host] 05:33:08 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:33:34 zealousJavelin: mapcar builds new list. 05:33:37 mapcar does push and reverse in addition to dolist. 05:33:45 Also, mapcar loops over several lists. 05:34:08 (mapcar '+ '(1 2 3) '(100 200 300)) --> (101 202 303) 05:34:22 zealousJavelin: you should read clhs. 05:35:00 nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-136-21-70.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:35:28 pjb: Thanks for advice, but I've also found a hack: 05:35:29 (loop with result 05:35:29 for char = (read-char stream nil nil) 05:35:29 while char 05:35:29 if (not (eq #\Nul char)) 05:35:29 do (push char result) 05:35:29 finally (return (reverse result))) 05:35:39 mrSpec [~Spec@89-68-55-121.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 05:35:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-68-55-121.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 05:35:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:35:48 hitecnologys: this is idiotic. 05:36:02 pjb: Yeah, I know. It look terrible. 05:36:17 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:37:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@37-136-21-70.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 05:38:56 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@23-78-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:15 gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 05:39:34 pjb: I need to use something like this (make-in-memory-input-stream (string-to-octets (read-line stream)) and then read bytes, sure? 05:40:00 Why do you want bytes??? 05:40:16 A string is a string. Let java and lisp deal with bytes! 05:40:19 You're not writing C! 05:41:34 Hm, I came to lisp from C++ and it's hard for me to get used to lots of things, sorry. =( 05:42:44 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.20.186] has joined #lisp 05:46:14 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:46:26 lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has joined #lisp 05:54:26 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@23-78-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 05:54:36 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@23-78-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:41 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@23-78-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 05:56:05 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@220.191.186.26] has left #lisp 05:56:25 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-4-115.lns1.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:50 ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 05:59:24 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:00:50 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 06:02:20 wahjava [cleve@fsf/member/wahjava] has joined #lisp 06:06:42 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:10:06 teggi [~teggi@113.172.45.222] has joined #lisp 06:10:20 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.62.200] has joined #lisp 06:13:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.62.200] has quit [Changing host] 06:13:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:13:33 <|3b|> hitecnologys: what do you mean by "java string" and from what are you trying to read it? 06:15:11 -!- mal__ [~mal@www.wimmekes.net] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.4 -- Are we there yet?] 06:15:12 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 06:15:40 mal__ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 06:16:59 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@121-98-128-74.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:17:24 <|3b|> if you are using READ-LINE, the stream should be returning characters, so you should have already specified the correct external format (i'd guess utf-16 from the array you showed), and there isn't much point in calling STRING-TO-OCTETS on that string unless you need to send it back out of lisp in some other encoding 06:18:11 jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has joined #lisp 06:18:41 <|3b|> other option is to set the stream up to read octets, read from that with READ-SEQUENCE, then use some OCTETS-TO-STRING to decode it 06:20:26 -!- mal__ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:20:49 mal__ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:54 Basically I just want to write simple Minecraft server(connecting, writing to chat, maybe maps support) to understand how it works. This is what I have now: http://paste.lisp.org/+2SI8. 06:23:48 hitecnologys: Minecraft *server*? 06:23:56 <|3b|> network server suggests you probably want a binary connection, since most protocols aren't pure text, and even if they are they have parts that are specified at the binary level 06:23:59 Good luck. You'll probably wind up with something faster than the official one. 06:24:38 No, I don't want to make alternative. I'm doing it just for fun. 06:25:18 phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:18 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:25:18 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 06:25:33 So the first thing I need to do is to write string decoder/encoder. 06:25:45 <|3b|> i'm guessing the name you tried to sent started with "HiT 06:25:47 <|3b|> ? 06:25:52 Yep. 06:25:55 HiTECNOLOGYs 06:26:01 It's my nick. =) 06:27:19 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:27:28 The #(63) is server info. (max players, description). It sends when you're in the server list. 06:27:50 That's why I need bytes. The first symbol is packet number. 06:28:06 <|3b|> right, better to just read octets directly that trying to go through strings 06:28:40 And then convert chars from 1 to end to characters? 06:28:53 <|3b|> just use babel or flexistremas to decode strings 06:28:59 <|3b|> *flexistreams 06:29:48 make-in-memory-input-stream, sure? 06:29:49 <|3b|> so first thing to do is pass :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) to SOCKET-SERVER 06:29:54 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:30:02 OK, thanks. 06:30:27 <|3b|> that should cause the READ-CHAR in your loop to fail, so switch that to READ-BYTE 06:30:49 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:51 tcr1 [~tcr@46.184.191.95] has joined #lisp 06:30:59 OK. 06:34:13 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 06:34:52 <|3b|> it looks like it sends strings as a 16bit length followed by utf-16 (or ucs2?) characters 06:39:06 *|3b|* would probably read 1 octet, then use that to dispatch to a set of functions that decode a particular packet type 06:39:46 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.20.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:39:49 <|3b|> built up from a set of functions to read 1 of the various types the protocol uses 06:40:22 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:54 <|3b|> so for that packet, it would read the 2, call read-handshake or whatever, that would call something to read a string, which would call the function to read a 16bit length, then read 2x that many octets into an array, then pass that to OCTETS-TO-STRING and return the result 06:43:51 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 06:49:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:51:39 -!- kanru [~kanru@84.124.36.50.static.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:37 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 06:57:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:59:22 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:01:16 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-248.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: asleep] 07:01:34 -!- flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:34 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 07:11:15 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:13:03 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@120.152.47.119] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:13:29 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 07:14:51 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@46.184.191.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:15:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:07 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:19:22 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-poeuirtlqaqksfis] has joined #lisp 07:19:28 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:19:28 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:19:28 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:21:46 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:22:45 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 07:30:26 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:52 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:10 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:35:45 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:37:30 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 07:38:26 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-026-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:35 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:42:45 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:42:46 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:46:19 ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 07:46:37 hitecnologys: why do you want to write a string coder/decoder? Aren't babylon and flexi-streams enough encoder/decoders for you??? 07:46:48 s/babylon/babel/ 07:50:00 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:51:35 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:54:32 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has joined #lisp 07:55:12 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:56:09 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-40-83.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:22 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.89] has joined #lisp 07:56:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 08:02:25 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.174.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:28 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:03:11 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:58 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-026-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:13:36 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:14:23 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:29 mrfinley [no@93-97-129-122.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:14:32 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:41 -!- mrfinley [no@93-97-129-122.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 08:15:56 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-8-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:17:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.70] has joined #lisp 08:17:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.70] has quit [Changing host] 08:17:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:18:24 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-28-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:20:38 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:20:41 It seems that ccl doesn't know about :include option of defstruct 08:21:19 Oh, hang on, it does. Sthing else is going on.. 08:21:56 ZabaQ: as a rule, you can assume ccl to be a common lisp and support everything that the hyperspec defines as being part of the language. 08:22:01 ..then again.. Bad defstruct option (:INCLUDE). 08:22:01 [Condition of type CCL::SIMPLE-PROGRAM-ERROR] 08:22:04 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:22:35 ZabaQ: paste or it did not happen 08:22:44 ZabaQ: better yet, use clos. :) 08:24:13 Ah, I'm getting that error because the form evaluates to :include nil, I think.. 08:24:33 sounds plausible. 08:25:12 tcr1 [~tcr@46.184.255.93] has joined #lisp 08:27:23 Hmm, #+(and win32 windows) should probably be #+(or win32 windows) 08:27:28 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 08:31:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:32:07 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ogfebuerodtaddox] has joined #lisp 08:33:46 pjb: I didn't say that i won't use flexi-streams. 08:38:07 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 08:39:00 -!- BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:36 ZabaQ: win64... 08:40:22 kanru [~kanru@233.Red-88-7-119.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:28 Eh, even with win64, it's still a strangely redundant clause though. 08:41:49 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:56 ccl doesn't have win32 / win64 in *features*: looks like :win32-target / :win32-host instead. 08:44:22 Is it legal to push new keywords into *features*? 08:45:01 yes 08:46:10 c/lear 08:46:19 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23B6A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:47:17 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 08:47:24 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:47:42 how do one pick a restart from the basic ecl command line interface? (not using slime here) 08:48:00 I tried :1 and some variants without luck 08:48:17 just 1 maybe? 08:48:29 it prints it back to me 08:49:15 <|3b|> :r1 ? 08:49:38 thx! 08:50:03 there's :help, next time 08:50:22 I think I've been trying that... that was ,help maybe 08:50:30 (which is not helpful) 08:50:40 :help gives you detailed help on all top-level commands available 08:50:43 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 08:50:57 in all lisps basic cli or just the ecl one? 08:51:01 in the ecl one 08:51:07 well that said I will try it everywhere I think I need it :) 08:51:10 and the ecl repl tells you about it when it starts. 08:51:26 "read what your program gives you to read" 08:51:34 I'm trying to see if ECL produces small binaries 08:51:51 <|3b|> reasonably small last time i checked (depending on how you count the libs) 08:51:53 mm, will read better. good idea. 08:52:05 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:53:19 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 08:55:56 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:56:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:02 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 08:58:54 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@51.108.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:02:44 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:03:54 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 09:09:06 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:10:30 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-gonfuskrufdmfknq] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:17:40 -!- lisporu [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has left #lisp 09:18:50 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 09:22:13 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:12 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:23:47 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:25:10 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:27:14 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 09:29:40 -!- chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:14 chr` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 09:31:28 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 09:33:10 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.67.28] has joined #lisp 09:33:43 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:17 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@51.108.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 09:39:17 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 09:39:22 I'd like an hash table of string->cons (a couple of integers), but my main use case would be scanning the whole content sorted by key --- what data structure would I use in CL do do that? 09:40:57 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:41:10 <|3b|> easiest would probably be an alist, performance would depend on what else you want to do with it 09:41:39 update the counters quite frequently, publish them all at a time every couple of seconds 09:42:40 <|3b|> do the set of keys change often? 09:42:46 no 09:42:56 I could go with hard coding it if I really needed to 09:43:02 256 fixed keys 09:43:15 I'd like a more dynamic approach if possible though 09:43:22 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:22 <|3b|> possibly a hash table plus an alist or set of arrays 09:43:55 I can map my keys to numbers quite easily here 09:44:24 so I could have a static sorted array of the keys in order and use that to probe the hash table when displaying its content... 09:44:26 <|3b|> if you can use small integers for keys easily, then just an array wouljd p-robably be easy 09:44:43 <|3b|> right, or use the hash table to index the sorted data 09:44:43 yeah just the array would do 09:44:46 how often is "update frequently"? 09:45:01 I'm still interrested in something mode dynamic just for reusability 09:45:11 <|3b|> pretty much the same either way if they share the same object for the value i suppose 09:45:46 dim: if you're updating frequently but read the data only every couple seconds, use a hash table. 09:46:19 H4ns: I have 16 concurrent threads doing updates, several concurrent updates could be running at any time, other than that couple updates a second in average would be my guess 09:46:42 the running of the program is estimated to last at least 20 hours, so I want an easy way to know where its at 09:46:50 use a hash table. 09:47:15 and with-hash-table-iterator to display the current status? 09:47:27 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:47:29 well, with-hash-table-iterator to build the display list, then sort it, I guess 09:47:36 dim: you want to sort the keys, so use alexandria:hash-table-keys and sort the list 09:47:46 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-5-234.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:49:12 dim: you could even cache the sorted result, but why bother? it does not sound as if the whole thing is even remotely performance critical on the reading side, so it does not matter whether it takes 1 or 2 milliseconds to generate the result. 09:50:41 exactly 09:56:07 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:56:34 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:56:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:15 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:00:45 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-2cb4e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 10:01:21 SHODAN [~shozan@83.226.180.44] has joined #lisp 10:05:05 ok I still have some hard times about places... so here's a n00b question, and RTFM is accepted as an answer 10:05:36 will this update the counter in the list in the hash table value: (symbol-macrolet ((s (gethash shard stats))) (destructuring-bind (cur-read cur-ins cur-del) s (incf cur-read read))) 10:06:11 (I only pasted the read counter increment, yes) 10:06:12 no 10:06:17 *|3b|* would not expect it to 10:06:26 destructuring-bind is the culprit, right? 10:06:37 <|3b|> destructuring-bind makes a new binding, which is what incf modifies 10:06:52 I'd better build a new list and (setf s newlist) right? 10:06:55 <|3b|> (incf (car s)) would change it 10:07:16 <|3b|> assuming it existed already 10:07:20 or I turn the list into a defstruct or defclass maybe 10:08:39 <|3b|> doesn't matter much 10:09:12 <|3b|> in either case you have to either modify the object in the hash, or store a new object in the hash 10:09:30 <|3b|> just a question of which accessor you use 10:09:55 <|3b|> though if you are trying to use atomic ops to avoid locking, that might limit which of the choices you can use 10:11:13 dim: if the keys are fixed, put them in a vector and use the indices of the keys to index the array of conses (or a 2d array). If you need to look up the keys put the indices in a hash-table. 10:11:49 I can gethash and provide make-stats-counters as a default value, with a defstruct 10:12:06 and I'm using a bordeaux-thread lock 10:12:06 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:30 <|3b|> 'default value' for gethash doesn't store anything in the hash table, so that might not do what you expect 10:12:34 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:39 pjb: once the indices are in a hash-table, I might as well iterate it on reading, right? 10:12:57 No, you'd iterate directly the arrays. 10:13:15 yeah 10:13:16 <|3b|> default works for things like INCF and PUSH, since they store something back, but if you just change the contents of the default, it won't be stored 10:13:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:13:27 perfs on update are more important than perfs on display though 10:14:39 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:17:24 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-179-243.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:48 -!- kanru [~kanru@233.Red-88-7-119.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17:49 (symbol-macrolet ((counters (gethash shard stats (make-stats-counters)))) (incf (stats-counters-read counters) read)) 10:17:54 how does that look? 10:18:03 mmm, looks like it's lunch break though 10:18:18 <|3b|> like i said, probably won't do what you want 10:18:37 dbushenko [~dim@212.98.173.103] has joined #lisp 10:18:56 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 10:19:44 <|3b|> GETHASH doesn't store anything when it has to use the default, and that INCF won't store it either, since it modifies a slot of the stats-counters rather than the hash table 10:20:25 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.116.112.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:57 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.116.112.221] has joined #lisp 10:21:39 harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:22:04 *|3b|* isn't sure if you can add a new key without either locking or risking losing a write 10:22:14 [SLB] [~slabua@host97-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:22:14 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host97-170-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 10:22:14 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:22:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:25:52 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.116.112.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:26:28 DrForr [~jgoff@d149031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 10:31:16 |3b|: if you really want to do it lock-free, we could go with something like alist of key -> counter, and thread-local hash tables for key -> counter. CAS lets you push on the alist without locking or losing writes. 10:31:23 orivej [~orivej@176.14.241.184] has joined #lisp 10:32:08 but I'd just lock around a global key -> counter hash table, or merge counters in batch. 10:32:27 -!- gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:30 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:32:42 <|3b|> yeah, probably isn't updating fast enough for locks to matter 10:33:39 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:33:40 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-13-80.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 10:33:40 chu_ [~chu@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 10:34:21 pnq [~nick@AC817D63.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:13 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.222.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:38 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 10:38:58 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:39:17 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@180.190.130.24] has joined #lisp 10:40:20 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has joined #lisp 10:41:11 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.45.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:31 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 10:43:14 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-34-6.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:43:18 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.101.186] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:50:57 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:54:24 iocor [~textual@164.11.141.5] has joined #lisp 10:54:35 -!- iocor [~textual@164.11.141.5] has quit [Changing host] 10:54:35 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:57:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:27 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:58:55 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:01:28 -!- cfdm [~user@222.235.51.254] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:02:59 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:08:20 -!- zealousJavelin [~niksaak@94.27.88.34] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:18:09 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:18:19 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:03 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:19:10 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@51.108.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:21:26 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:23:13 dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:27:55 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:29:47 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:30:36 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:27 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:58 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:38:52 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@67.197.37.202] has joined #lisp 11:42:34 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 11:48:05 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-196-121.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:50:19 I'm fine with locking 11:50:46 so my question is more about semantics than concurrent side effects 11:54:29 ok (gethash "fl_p123" *test* (make-stats-counters)) is not doing what I'd like 11:55:01 How does it surprise you? 11:57:10 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:35 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:59:35 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:59:50 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:57 mucker [~mucker@183.83.220.148] has joined #lisp 12:00:06 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:00:24 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:40 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:38 -!- pnq [~nick@AC817D63.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05:49 *dim* places n00b 12:06:01 *dim* CL n00b 12:06:36 dim: you're missing the setf part 12:07:19 which is no necessary with (gethash "fl_p123" *test* 1), IIUC 12:07:30 no, you do not understand correctly. 12:07:51 if you did, it would work. q.e.d. 12:08:11 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:09:04 oh. damn. I should have slept last night, I see it now. 12:10:22 so I need to (symbol-macrolet ((foo (gethash key hash))) (unless foo (setf foo (make-stats-counters))) ...) 12:10:55 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:16 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:11:40 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:11:47 Well, if you have to make stats counters, perhaps. 12:11:54 dim: does the symbol-macrolet buy you much? 12:12:13 But usually you just do (setf (gethash key table) (gethash key table default)) 12:12:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:15 I don't like repeating the gethash 12:12:33 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:33 or (setf (gethash key table) (or (gethash key table) (make-stats-counters))) 12:12:39 I could get convinced to stop disliking that form I guess 12:12:45 dim: (incf (gethash key table default)) 12:12:58 well I want to store 3 counters in there 12:12:59 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 12:13:07 (defstruct stats-counters (read 0 :type integer) (ins 0 :type integer) (del 0 :type integer)) 12:13:29 I though it'd be cleaner with a defstruct here 12:13:35 dim: try macroexpanding what i wrote. maybe it gives you some idea 12:13:38 Of course, if you want to do: (incf (cdr (gethash key table))) you will have to use setf: (incf (setf (gethash key table) (or (gethash key table) (cons 0 0)))) 12:13:40 dim: also, get some sleap. 12:13:43 I'm trying to go from adhoc lists to structured data 12:14:11 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 12:14:18 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.220.148] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:15:11 H4ns: your incf/default example will not work with more than a single counter AFAICS 12:15:26 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:20:22 DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@121.216.159.72] has joined #lisp 12:21:33 (update-stats *test* "fl_p123" 34 12 21) then (update-stats *test* "fl_p123" 1 2 3) 12:21:34 #S(STATS-COUNTERS :READ 35 :INS 14 :DEL 24) 12:21:36 works ok 12:22:00 I hope I didn't miss too much details, I still don't see how to do that with the (incf (gethash ... default)), H4ns 12:22:33 I just told you (incf (stats-counters-read (gethash key table))) you will have to use setf: (incf (setf (gethash key table) (or (gethash key table) (make-stats-counters)))) 12:22:37 dim: i don't see it either. i just wanted to give you something to think about, seeing that you tried to use symbol-macrolet, which i'd consider to be distasteful. 12:22:50 oh, that's what I missed then 12:22:55 symbol-macrolet is bad style? 12:23:08 I just told you (incf (stats-counter-read (setf (gethash key table) (or (gethash key table) (make-stats-counters))))) 12:23:14 yeah 12:23:14 dim: i'm not using it a lot. 12:23:35 I dislike using gethash twice pjb, and what looks like overriding the hash entry with itself 12:23:58 dim: i find it confusing to see something that appears to be a simple symbol to expand to arbitrary code. there are uses, but i rarely see those. 12:23:58 Well, symbol-macros are a little overkill. Notably here the problem is that they're not parameterized. A function or a modifier macro would be better. 12:23:59 let me paste what I have now 12:24:21 it's really used only once (ie. read once and written once. 12:24:35 What you need to factor out however is the key and the table. 12:24:53 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130257 12:24:55 The problem is that CL doesn't give you access to the hash-table entry like it does for a-lists. 12:25:45 dim: and with symbol macros, you ARE indeed using gethash each time. 12:26:02 dim: that code is most silly 12:26:23 dim: you are storing the read/ins/del counters in one object, so it makes no sense to visit the hash table three times. 12:26:23 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 12:26:24 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@46.184.255.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:26:28 ah, there we go, I should paste more often :) 12:26:28 dim: you should get some sleep now. 12:26:29 Since in your case (gethash key table) --> a mutable structure, you should just use LET. 12:27:18 H4ns: unfortunately I'm not my own boss yet, I'll be able to sleep when I need from next month, this month I get to go by the wall clock 12:27:52 but yes indeed I forgot about what I gain with defstruct the second I put that in my code 12:29:20 you'll want either locking or atomic increment as well. 12:29:37 pkhuong: he's got a lock 12:30:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130257#1 12:30:31 H4ns: around the incf? No lock in the struct... must be pretty coarse. 12:30:32 ez271 [d521469d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 12:32:00 the (setf (gethash ...) (or (gethash ...) (compute-default))) looks very innefficient to me. I just need to grow up from there? 12:32:26 You can use a IF if you want there. 12:32:39 does it make sense to? 12:32:51 I mean, should I worry about that? 12:33:01 This setf is useful when you just pass it as parameter to an INCF, but since you bind the entry, you can do it separately. 12:33:03 dim: (gethash key table (setf (gethash key table) (compute-value))) 12:33:03 Semantically clearer. 12:33:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:33:08 I'm ok to file that into bad habits from other languages 12:33:10 it makes more sense to have (or (gethash ...) (setf gethash ...) ...) 12:33:17 H4ns: bad. 12:33:22 pjb: because? 12:33:25 Amadiro__ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:33:27 H4ns: that's broken. 12:33:27 The default is always evaluated! 12:33:32 ah, true 12:33:38 dim: i need sleep, too 12:33:44 hehe ;) 12:33:47 *H4ns* disappears in under a stone 12:35:04 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:35:09 -!- p_l is now known as nie 12:35:14 -!- nie is now known as p_l 12:35:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/130257#2 12:35:41 -!- antoszka is now known as nie 12:35:42 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:35:46 -!- nie is now known as antoszka 12:36:12 pkhuong: now you can see the lock definition, inside the class. as I don't intend to access the content without holding the lock, it seems safe enough for me. what do you think? 12:36:15 -!- Amadiro__ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Client Quit] 12:36:45 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:37:41 I don't care. 12:38:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:42:49 fair enough 12:43:17 my son too only cares if I don't ask :) 12:44:08 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLink@121.216.159.72] has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:44:17 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has joined #lisp 12:45:41 ahh it's a wonderful day 12:51:36 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:54:31 zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has joined #lisp 12:57:21 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:43 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:58:53 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:53 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@static-64-61-115-26.isp.broadviewnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:09:27 -!- zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:09:41 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:09:46 zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has joined #lisp 13:11:33 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 13:13:42 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.102.111] has joined #lisp 13:15:00 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 13:17:53 steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has joined #lisp 13:18:49 LiamH [~healy@pc2.shin-miyakohotels-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:19:26 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.142.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:59 stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.142.238] has joined #lisp 13:20:52 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129088207.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 13:27:52 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-rzoxfyvykhnetcuc] has joined #lisp 13:29:15 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@184.152.73.25] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:29:29 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:12 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:18 Undefined function BORDEAUX-THREADS:MAKE-THREAD called with arguments (# mmm 13:38:49 any idea? I don't understand why ccl says that bordeaux-threads, installed, is not providing its own API 13:39:41 I believe bordeaux threads sometimes have this issue with partially-rebuilt fasls. 13:39:46 remove all fasls and recompile 13:39:58 doing that 13:41:29 cool, worked 13:41:38 thanks a lot (again) 13:45:09 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:23 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-194.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:18 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:42 Suthe [~Suthe@113.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:12 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has joined #lisp 13:55:49 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.191] has joined #lisp 13:57:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:58:40 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping 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has joined #lisp 14:53:57 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.142.238] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 14:54:21 Does it make sense that slot-definition initial-instance keywords are coming through unevaluated? Or is this a bug I somewhere else in my metaclass implementation? 14:54:36 -!- ez271 [d521469d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:54:51 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 14:54:58 tried checking AMOP, but im having trouble locating that information 14:55:26 jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has joined #lisp 14:55:50 -!- LiamH [~healy@pc2.shin-miyakohotels-unet.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:56:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:56:10 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 14:56:40 felher [~whitedrag@fasel.nerd2nerd.org] has joined #lisp 14:56:44 s/initial-instance/initialize-instance/ 14:57:05 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:57:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:06 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 14:59:48 superflit [~superflit@65-128-40-83.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:04 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-sxmstnwbdyceunsr] has joined #lisp 15:02:04 visar [~visar@77.29.52.23] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 -!- visar [~visar@77.29.52.23] has left #lisp 15:05:08 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:43 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07:25 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-28-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:23 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.102.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:37 -!- orivej [~orivej@176.14.241.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:08:37 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:11:25 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:12:18 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:12:59 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has joined #lisp 15:13:17 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 15:13:30 mucker [~mucker@183.83.220.148] has joined #lisp 15:14:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:15:01 bobbysmith007: you mean the :initform stuff? Or, rather : yes, it makes sense, what are you trying to do exactly? 15:15:20 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:13 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has joined #lisp 15:16:48 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has quit [Client Quit] 15:16:54 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:19:53 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has joined #lisp 15:20:08 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has quit [Client Quit] 15:20:17 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.206] has joined #lisp 15:21:58 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:21 drewc: I had a quoted symbol come through to the initialize-instance of the slot-definition with the quote intact and that seemed odd (as most initform type things tend to get evaluated). I am trying to track down a bug in CLSQLs view-class-slot-definitions 15:28:04 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:29 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:28:35 -!- dbushenko [~dim@212.98.173.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:43 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-209-64.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 15:30:35 kanru [~kanru@233.Red-88-7-119.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:36 bobbysmith007: methods on metaobjects tend to construct code rather than values. It would be annoying if ":initform (get-uid)" always returned the same id, for example. 15:31:10 how/when do arguments passed via :initform get eval'd? The how is in the AMOP, the when is in the CLHS 15:31:54 pkhuong: good point indeed! 15:34:14 *drewc* also notes that :reader/:accessor/:writer arguments are not evaluated as variables at all 15:37:51 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-13.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:56 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:38:12 AeroNotix [~xeno@bdf92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:39:36 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:40:30 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:36 -!- ANASLEX is now known as gf3 15:43:06 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.251.85] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 15:45:19 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:46:51 pkhuong, drewc: thanks for the input. It seemed likely that it was intentionally uneval'ed but I was not positive 15:52:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-237.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.174.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:54:19 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:34 tcr1 [~tcr@46.184.255.90] has joined #lisp 15:55:14 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.155.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:14 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:00:19 -!- steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-sxmstnwbdyceunsr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:21 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:00:27 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:29 steffi_s [marioooh@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ovujnmceifdhxlaa] has joined #lisp 16:01:40 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-poeuirtlqaqksfis] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:41 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 16:03:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.4.61] has joined #lisp 16:03:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.4.61] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:04:38 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:24 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:11:35 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-195-11.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 16:18:22 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Quit: I'm finished!] 16:23:01 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 16:24:28 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 16:24:29 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 16:24:29 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 16:24:34 kliph [~user@144.92.35.150] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 -!- kanru [~kanru@233.Red-88-7-119.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:25:01 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:43 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 16:26:26 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:28:18 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 16:28:42 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:35:59 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-209-64.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:36:49 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 16:39:14 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD76A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:34 so is using #'foo returning the address of the function named 'foo' ? 16:41:35 paul__: it is returning the function object named by FOO. 16:41:42 possibly locally named 16:41:44 Well it doesn't look like it does .... 16:42:00 might depend on how you're looking. 16:42:01 its returns the interned symbol representation then 16:42:10 I don't know what that means, sorry. 16:42:41 To get the precise specification of what it's doing, see http://l1sp.org/cl/function 16:42:51 #'foo is reader shorthand for (function foo) 16:42:58 ok 16:43:00 thanks 16:43:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:35 I just trying to grapple with idea of functions as data...to me they are no different than function pointers in C 16:44:18 I find it helps to just think of them as a function object, like 1 is a number object. You don't think of 1 as an "integer pointer". 16:44:31 There are certain things you can do when you have a function object handy. 16:44:52 Like: apply it, or map it, or call it, etc. 16:44:57 like use funcall or apply 16:45:02 right 16:45:12 got it,thanks 16:46:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:46:53 speaking of function... in the CLSH page for it, how is (defun adder (x) (function (lambda (y) (+ x y)))) different from (defun adder2 (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) ? 16:47:02 It just seems like Lispers try to put this on some sort of pedestal and make it hard to understand- yeah,ok it's powerful- I get that. To me, so far, the only thing Lisp has on other 'imperative' languages is macros and their ability to muddle with syntax tree 16:47:42 macros are pretty handy 16:47:51 is there a library which provides a local function binding macro? Like flet but binding names to function definitions like (with-fbindings ((my-print #'print)) (my-print 3)) 16:47:57 macros are sick,I agree 16:48:25 slyrus: i give up, how? 16:48:40 dunno! I was hoping somebody could tell me. 16:48:44 lobo_d_b_ [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 16:48:52 slyrus: doesn't look any different to me 16:49:04 must be part of that effort to make things hard to understand that paul__ was referring to 16:49:08 :) 16:50:01 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:50:05 paul__: Probably on a feature-by-feature checklist you could look at Common Lisp compared to other languages and say "this is available elsewhere" most of the time. I like how things tie nicely together, for the most part, in CL. 16:50:27 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@51.108.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:50:33 so let me get this straight, the first adder takes some x and then rets a function that takes some y and adds it to x 16:50:35 I like the object system, the condition system, the number system, and all the other systems and how they interact. 16:50:46 paul__: I think they both do the same thing 16:52:58 The consensus opinion I see among lispers is that CL is a very nice language to write programs in. The only people I see who put it on a pedestal are those who barely know it 16:53:59 ok and I am confused on adder ... when called it internally calls the anon func- which takes some y and adds it to whatever was passed to adder,...but where did you define y? 16:54:17 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:54:35 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:38 paul__: it does not call it (FUNCTION is not FUNCALL) 16:55:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:15 paul__: a lot of what used to be revolutionary in the 80s isn't anymore; it's just useful. 16:55:18 to syyrus and Xach and dlowe- So far, I like Lisp cuz 1) AI , macros -> AI! 2) I enjoy 'mathy' looking code 16:55:53 ok so my first assesment was correct 16:56:15 adder returns a func 16:56:40 not quite: C doesn't have local functions. 16:57:28 'local' functions...hmmm so well any func defined is local to main 16:57:38 and global to every one else 16:58:00 a function in c is local to the block it is in,no? 16:58:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:16 -!- paul__ [~paul@ool-44c6db7f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:58:50 no. GCC calls them nested functions, and even that extension can only have dynamic extent. Apple calls them Blocks. C++11 lambdas (kind of like Lisp). 16:59:06 runborg [2e09e090@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.9.224.144] has joined #lisp 16:59:18 paul__ [~paul@ool-44c6db7f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:24 sorry 16:59:39 so as was asking? 17:00:32 a block in C , { ...} defines a local section...so it not function defs with {} local? 17:01:38 { int im-a-local-func( int k ) ( ret k+1; ) } 17:03:55 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 17:05:03 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb115-66-194-180.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:13 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:13 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@108-222-196-145.lightspeed.nsvltn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:05:13 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 17:05:38 How can I iterate by 3 elements of a list using loop or iterate? 17:06:15 I have no clue what you're trying to say. Functions in CL can be passed around, just like functions in C. The difference is that not only can we have nested functions, but they can also be anonymous and outlive their activation record's lifetime. There's no point in saying "function pointer", because, conceptually, everything is a pointer in CL. 17:06:57 sepi: (loop for (a b c) on list by #'cdddr ...) 17:08:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:37 -!- zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:09:09 paul__: they can also have unique state. So it's not just a pointer to the function, but rather to a function coupled with a block of data that the function can use. I.e. a closure 17:09:18 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has joined #lisp 17:09:32 pkhuong: everything and nothing, in that you can't do arithmetic on them, which seems to be what C folks seem to think of as being a key feature of pointers 17:09:43 Xach: ahh, thanks. I didn't think of that 17:10:34 slyrus: can't do pointer arithmetic on function pointers. Not, in C, anyway. 17:10:56 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:20 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:35 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-37.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 17:13:35 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-37.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 17:13:35 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 17:15:30 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-229-86-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:18:28 zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has joined #lisp 17:21:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:21:25 -!- lobo_d_b_ [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:21:36 antgreen [~user@out-on-205.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:46 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:23:19 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:24:12 Is there a simple, idiomatic way of expressing code like Ruby's: [1,2,3,4,5,6,7].each_slice(3).to_a => [[1, 2, 3], [4, 5, 6], [7]] 17:24:16 in CL? 17:24:31 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ogfebuerodtaddox] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:24:38 (perhaps using on of the popular libraries) 17:24:42 one* 17:24:56 series has a nice one 17:25:17 Ah, series is the thing that almost made it into ANSI :)? 17:25:50 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has joined #lisp 17:25:51 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@181.132.160.27] has quit [Changing host] 17:25:51 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 Dunno about that. I think the series interface is awesome, though 17:26:26 antoszka: What's wrong with (loop for (x y z) on foo by #'cdddr collect (list x y z)) 17:26:27 though I think its current incarnation is insane 17:27:17 loke: It get's a bit unwieldy for higher slice parameters. Like, say, eleven :) 17:27:35 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:51 antoszka: you could say by #'(lambda (l) (nth 11 l)) 17:28:02 antoszka: That sounds like something rather unusual. I certainly can't remember ever having wished for such a feature. That said, it is trivial to build. 17:28:06 er, nthcdr 17:29:01 dlowe: Yeah, but then I have to fill in the loop argument list somehow, anyway. 17:29:49 lusory [~lusory@bb115-66-194-180.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:29:51 (loop for on foo by #'(lambda ) collect ) 17:30:03 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:30:04 (loop for x on foo by (lambda (l) (nth 11 l)) collect (subseq x 0 11)) 17:30:24 it still sucks compared to the ruby version 17:30:36 *antoszka* digs into series. 17:30:56 dlowe: is that something you commonly need though? 17:31:01 Probably not. 17:31:09 Just a case that I got interested in solving. 17:31:13 For no important reason. 17:32:03 in series: (collect (chunk 3 3 (scan my-list))) 17:32:09 It's trivial to build a high-performance version of that (something similar to dlowe's version but that avoids ther SUBSEQ) 17:32:27 loke: if you have to make a new list anyway... 17:32:52 dlowe: Mmm... good point. 17:32:59 Yeah, series was documented as an appendix to CLtL2, that's why I thought it almost made into ANSI. 17:33:17 you can use split-sequence-if for that, no? 17:33:43 *loke* played around with series (as implemented by whatever is in QL) but found performance to be atrocious compared to the naive alternatives using LOOP 17:33:44 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 17:33:47 just need a counting predicate 17:34:14 thanks pkhuong , slyrus 17:34:25 you somehwat clarified things. 17:34:35 loke: Is that because of the possibilities of lazy evaluation and other features of series? 17:34:45 antoszka: most likely 17:35:03 antoszka: I was comparing trivial uses of series vs. trivial LOOP's 17:35:06 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-170-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:35:06 yeah 17:35:11 series was an order of magnitude or more slower 17:35:20 series *can* be really fast 17:35:29 btw, you can do pointer arithmetic on function pointers 17:35:30 but there's too much magic there to be dependable 17:35:32 dlowe: Perhaps. It's just that I never found such cases. 17:35:43 paul__: not according to the C stadnard 17:35:45 loke: it's easy to break series' performance. 17:36:41 loke, well all I know is you can deref the ptr and try anding it and then calling the result 17:36:49 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-28-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 paul__: Yeah, but once you do that you are in the territory that the C standard refers to as "undefined behaviour" 17:37:28 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.20.186] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 you likely will segfsult, but there are ways of capturing the instruction ptr relative the stack registers ( ebp, esp) 17:38:10 and from there you can do crazy stuff like modify your own code 17:38:18 ##c will be happy to clarify the finer points of the ISO standards, if you want. 17:38:36 But thats why Lisp is cool, smc is just a 'feature' of Lisp 17:38:45 actually, chunk in series is utterly lame :/ my example doesn't work 17:38:49 antoszka/dlowe: how about this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/130260 17:39:13 (no need for subseq, and it goes through the list only once 17:39:23 (adjust 1+/fenceposts at will) 17:40:01 antifuchs: pretty neat :D 17:40:06 thanks (: 17:40:17 *antifuchs* <3 split-sequence 17:40:19 I almost never use split-sequence, but that's a good use for it 17:40:31 (note that it works for any sequence, not just lists, too) 17:40:41 antifuchs: Looks cool, thanks :) 17:41:42 paul__: Point is that the C standard specifies that a function pointer cannot be cast into any other poter type. This specifically includes the void pointer. 17:41:57 *dlowe* would rather hear more lisp, less C 17:42:15 paul__: And since a function pointer can't be derefenced in any other way than to call it, and it can't be cast, there is no way you can do pointer arithmetic on them. 17:42:27 hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has joined #lisp 17:43:09 oh ic loke 17:43:15 smanek [~smanek@173-228-44-49.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:25 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-rzoxfyvykhnetcuc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:46:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:35 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-rbnbeclmbkbdpoua] has joined #lisp 17:47:36 loke: is there not a way to somehow get the value of the function ptr and assign it to an int type for muddling? But I see what your saying, cuz that would require casting the funcptr variable to int,which is not allowed 17:48:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-106.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:49:03 aslan [~aslan@115.242.229.57] has joined #lisp 17:53:29 -!- paul__ [~paul@ool-44c6db7f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:47 Suthe [~Suthe@113.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:04 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:05 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has joined #lisp 17:57:10 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.67.28] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:01:46 hi 18:02:47 I'm new to lsip and programming... will any one suggest me a better book to start lisp 18:03:08 aslan: http://gigamonkeys.com/book 18:03:29 sykopomp: not a programming beginner book 18:03:58 aslan: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ if you're a true beginner! 18:04:05 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:04:11 or actually, read it anyway because it's great. 18:04:13 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:04:19 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:46 aslan: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ is also highly regarded 18:05:30 sykopomp, dlowe : Thank you so much... I'm going to start right away... 18:06:28 -!- antgreen [~user@out-on-205.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:57 mmm publishing a static directory in hunchentoot is not straightforward 18:08:07 dim: it is. 18:08:15 (push (hunchentoot:create-folder-dispatcher-and-handler "/highcharts/" (asdf:system-relative-pathname :fotolog-comments "highcharts/")) hunchentoot:*dispatch-table*) 18:08:20 apparently I should be doing that? 18:08:40 and then see the thing published in http://localhost:4242/highcharts/ 18:08:49 (given that I use port 4242, etc) 18:08:51 is that right? 18:08:53 -!- aslan [~aslan@115.242.229.57] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:09:07 dim: yeah, looks straightforward to me 18:09:16 yeah, and it just fails 18:09:19 dim: but i may have a distorted vision 18:09:35 should that work, I would be very happy to call it straightforward 18:10:00 the fact that all I see in my browser is "Resource /highcharts/ not found.", I will refrain 18:10:01 -!- runborg [2e09e090@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.9.224.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:47 is there a form using (hunchentoot:define-easy-handler ...) that allows publishing a static directory? 18:10:49 dim: thing is, as you have not slept last night, you are too hard to support 18:10:57 hehe 18:11:14 ok I'll stop solliciting help here til I got my sleeping 18:11:17 fair enough :) 18:11:38 snearch [~snearch@f053001085.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:56 dim: you may be expecting that hunchentoot tries to open an index.html for you even if you don't specify that. that expectation is not fulfilled. 18:15:34 http://localhost:4242/highcharts/js/highcharts.js works indeed. 18:15:40 I hate sleep deprivation. 18:15:52 and I applause your support and patience 18:16:04 you have a couple of beers to cash out :) 18:16:25 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-139.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:15 (that could happen e.g. in Prague at next european PG conf) 18:21:39 -!- hitecnologys [~No_Name@46.233.224.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:35 *Xach* has enjoyed so many quicklisp beers! 18:23:42 which ones! ? 18:24:36 all of them 18:28:03 phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-74-59-158.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:28:03 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 18:29:32 Xach: SipHash implementation: http://github.com/brown/siphash 18:29:55 (for adding to quicklisp) 18:31:11 ITYM https://github.com/brown/sip-hash (: 18:33:31 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 18:34:18 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:51 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 18:35:21 brown`: thanks 18:35:29 i thought it was something to do with SIP at first 18:36:51 brown`: LDB *might* work out better than logand. In either case, it's clearer. 18:37:47 leve the beer! 18:37:53 alone! 18:37:55 lol 18:38:23 -!- zwick [~zwick@12.200.95.45] has left #lisp 18:39:53 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:40:47 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:45:23 brown`: I don't think *optimize-fast-unsafe*, octet-vector or octet-index are defined anywhere though. And, I'm not sure I should be writing this in public, but there's sb-kernel:%vector-raw-bits for little-endian architectures. Also, define-modify-macro is awesome, and standard sequence functions accent :end nil as a synonym for :end (length sequence), if you really want to go the extra inch. 18:46:04 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 18:47:35 m7w [~chatzilla@37.17.114.54] has joined #lisp 18:47:38 antifuchs: Yes, sorry ... last minute name change. 18:47:48 hah 18:48:10 (old name still stuck in my head) 18:49:15 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-195-11.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:49:44 pkhuong: I'll give LDB a try for clarity, but I think I've seen SBCL occasionally compile LDB code less well than the equivalent LOGIOR. 18:49:47 *standard sequence functions accept nil as well. 18:50:40 brown`: it'd be equivalent to LOGAND here. There may be issues on fairly complicated expressions, but I don't think it'll be an issue for SIP hash. 18:51:04 pkhuong: They're in com.google.base ... might make sense removing the dependency, since only a couple things in base are used. 18:51:21 pkhuong: I'll give it a try. 19:00:44 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@46.184.255.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:02:29 brown`: if it really messes up, I still find #.(ldb (byte 64 0) -1) better than a raw #xfff... 19:02:45 ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 19:03:32 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-117-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:00 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:56 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 19:16:06 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:07 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@37.17.114.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:16:48 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:19:58 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:51 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:24:19 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:25:56 Guthur [~user@host86-148-143-83.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:28:55 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04c4d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:25 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@51.108.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:29:54 flaviori_ [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 19:30:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:33:22 slyrus: Assuming all those symbols are CL symbols, (defun adder (x) (function (lambda (y) (+ x y)))) compiles faster than (defun adder2 (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))). Otherwise they're identical 19:35:18 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:35:41 why ? 19:36:21 oh i see 19:36:27 the extra function call ? 19:36:35 no 19:36:51 the extra macro expansion 19:36:55 ah ok 19:37:00 lol 19:37:00 DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:09 homie: can you tell me which macro is being expanded? 19:37:12 that one was good! 19:37:17 lambda 19:37:21 yeah 19:39:08 pjb: right. so, what's the point of the (function (lambda ...)) support? it's the same as (identity (lambda ...)) no? 19:39:10 haven't seen stassats in a while 19:39:19 does he still come here 19:40:38 function actually creates a function, given a lambda form. 19:41:06 (identity (lambda ...)) macroexpands into (identity (function (lambda ...))), so yeah, it's the same 19:43:15 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:43:25 ah, thanks dlowe! 19:44:45 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:47:11 jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has joined #lisp 19:48:26 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-177-129.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:52 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-34-6.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 19:51:09 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:53:34 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:54:45 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:55:22 Notably, LAMBDA wasn't a macro in CLTL. This was a problem because 11.1.2.1.2 prevents users to define a CL:LAMBDA macro (or a macro or function on any other CL symbol). Therefore you'd have to always write (function (lambda )) in that language, and we couldn't implement eg. ISOLisp as a subset of the CL package. 19:56:19 fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has joined #lisp 19:59:06 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@51.108.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:04:57 flanfl [~flanfl@cpc2-sgyl22-0-0-cust619.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:47 -!- BigEndian [~hurp@li230-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:10:38 in picolisp lambda is the same as quote 20:11:52 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:12:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.148.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:02 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-76-172-30-205.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:27 hola, buenas noches 20:17:49 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:18:43 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:22 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD76A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:24:12 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 20:24:28 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:15 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-40-83.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:26:16 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:09 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:27:09 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.158.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:27:16 superflit [~superflit@67-40-128-63.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:58 dmizzle_ [~dmizzle@65-130-132-248.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:31 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 20:35:33 -!- flaviori_ [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:12 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@186.192.87.33] has joined #lisp 20:37:55 myrkraverk [55dc3315@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.220.51.21] has joined #lisp 20:38:32 Hello. Trying here since (for a change) #emacs is silent: 20:38:44 I have this graphic design project/idea and would like a one line example of Lisp that identifies the programming language uniquely. Kind of like "template class C" does for C++ 20:39:31 he he 20:40:09 do the Y combinator 20:40:12 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-170-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:05 myrkraverk: (let (lisp) (lambda (x) (setf lisp x) lisp)) 20:41:21 mal__: Does that distinguish between dialects too? I haven't played with it for years - and the last time it was probably in Lamda Calculus. 20:41:45 it will differentiate between a Lisp1 and a Lisp2 20:42:28 hrr4 [~hrr4@c-69-245-141-254.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:38 I'd *like* to have (for this project) a 1 or 2 line code snippet that identifies as CL. Uniquely. 20:43:50 setf identifies it as CL 20:44:47 Ah, right. 20:45:32 Well, to be fair, there are more languages that have 'setf'. 20:45:46 myrkraverk: just making sure you're not trying to identify emacs lisp, scheme, etc, with that snippet. :) 20:45:58 (didn't IsLisp have it?) 20:46:24 sykopomp: I'd like to have an example experienced lispers will not confuse with EL or scheme. 20:46:55 ok, just checking. 20:47:01 using SETF is a pretty good bet. 20:47:40 but considering any of the lisps can look like any of the others (and CL can look like any language you want, with just library code), it's never going to be exact :) 20:47:52 did the CL commitee invent setf or came it from one of its predecessors? 20:48:48 myrkraverk_ [55dc3315@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.220.51.21] has joined #lisp 20:50:08 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053001085.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:50:51 -!- myrkraverk [55dc3315@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.220.51.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:50:52 -!- Kron [~Kron@2.49.111.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:52:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:54:22 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:55:35 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 20:56:10 I have no idea what's interrupting my irc sessions. 20:56:13 Sorry about that. 20:56:21 I think I must have missed something by now. 20:56:25 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.84.110] has joined #lisp 20:56:32 Is there something better than setf to identify CL from EL? 20:56:32 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:52 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:08 define 'better' 20:57:09 update-instance-for-redefined-class :) 20:57:47 pnq [~nick@AC815C21.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:07 sykopomp, Allows CLers to identify the language at a glance while being illegal scheme or EL code. 20:58:14 myrkraverk: you could look for any kind of package qualifier. I'm somewhat sure emacs doesn't have those at all. 20:58:24 (cl:if x y z) 20:58:45 : does happen in EL - but not much. 20:59:21 (common-lisp:values) 20:59:22 how often is it preceded by cl:? 20:59:34 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 21:00:24 sykopomp, probably only by coders whose personal initials are C and L :) 21:00:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.20.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:01:33 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:01:40 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.84.110] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:02:55 But a question, when do people prefix if with cl: ? 21:03:54 I've gotten into the habit of prefixing defpackage and in-package with cl: 21:04:40 there's also the case where you're shadowing CL symbols, but want to use the CL version of the symbol. 21:06:10 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:07:13 myrkraverk: in #. forms. 21:07:14 _schulte1 [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 21:07:43 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:08:01 sellout [~Adium@c-98-229-86-75.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:04 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has joined #lisp 21:11:04 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@38.117.156.114] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:38 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:00 I'm googling that now - I'm not really familiar with them myself. 21:12:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:12:27 But no, google doesn't seem to want to google the # character. 21:12:29 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91.119.217.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:41 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-244-186.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:29 myrkraverk: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 21:13:42 Thank you. 21:14:16 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-232-224.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:19 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 21:14:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.113.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:15:01 myrkraverk: http://l1sp.org/html/ can be used 21:15:05 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:08 maybe it'll give you some ideas, too. 21:15:42 -!- _schulte1 [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:46 Nice. 21:18:36 saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has joined #lisp 21:18:36 -!- saage [~saage@200.195.179.34] has quit [Changing host] 21:18:36 saage [~saage@unaffiliated/saage] has joined #lisp 21:21:05 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 21:22:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:13 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.195.174] has 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really exist in SBCL. 22:31:55 -!- harish [~harish@cm108.zeta234.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:33:50 that's fine but it'd be nice to at least see a style-warning from BT instead of silently taking no action ;) 22:33:50 oGMo: the locking APIs in CL implementations are a mess. I'd like to be able to simply say "recursive locks are bad, don't use them" 22:34:05 but there's at least one implementation which only has recursive locks 22:34:05 fe[nl]ix: unfortunately recursive locks are a necessity 22:34:20 zmv [~zmv@186.204.123.135] has joined #lisp 22:34:21 oGMo: no they're not 22:34:48 ltriant [~ltriant@124.148.137.162] has joined #lisp 22:34:49 nnyes 22:37:07 Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-50-93.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:37:07 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-50-93.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 22:37:07 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 22:37:09 Oddity [~Oddity@d75-156-94-70.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:09 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@d75-156-94-70.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:37:09 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:41:10 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:43:18 tcr1 [~tcr@46.184.191.87] has joined #lisp 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[~foo@host250-126-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:46:08 lemoinem [~swoog@177-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:16 -!- tortugo_d_b is now known as bobo_d_b 23:46:44 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 23:47:07 -!- dmizzle_ [~dmizzle@65-130-132-248.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:48 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:48:04 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:48:31 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 23:54:25 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 23:54:28 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:56:18 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:58:11 *Xach* feels deep sadness as his CL S3 library is broken in a way that the ruby S3 library isn't 23:58:39 aw ): 23:58:59 I am not entirely sure if I can pin it on drakma or puri, either. 23:59:06 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.245.201] has joined #lisp 23:59:15 Xach: don't feel sad! It's an opportunity for great CL hacking! Lemonodor fame in sight! 23:59:37 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-kffrvijxzrhtowtu] has joined #lisp 23:59:45 :)