00:00:19 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00:30 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:02:22 extranapkins [~lolmatt@bas1-toronto03-3096531991.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:02:47 I require clisp assistance :P 00:05:00 there aren't that many clisp users here. 00:07:33 peterhil` [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 00:07:52 I use clisp. 00:07:57 POOP 00:08:07 I mean 00:08:11 lisp 00:08:18 -!- TimKack [~tkack@c-2ec2134b-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:08:35 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:37 Well, the topic is about Common Lisp. We don't discuss lisp in general 00:08:43 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.227.9] has joined #lisp 00:08:51 Try #lispcafe for relaxed lisp discussion. 00:08:58 COMMON LISP! 00:09:01 i do mean 00:09:11 Make up your mind! 00:09:47 Now, #clnoobs may be more indicated, you don't seem to be knowing much about CL 00:09:56 Hey now. 00:10:02 I do know 00:10:05 about cons 00:10:20 and symmetry 00:10:50 Also irc messages can go upto more than 200 characters! 00:12:30 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:35 extranapkins: What do you need assistance with? 00:12:59 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:37 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 00:17:46 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:47 jacius: moved over to #clnoobs 00:17:59 Ok 00:19:42 duko` [~user@static-71-177-221-121.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 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joined #lisp 01:51:26 format-timestring? 01:51:52 i'm looking at some sample code and can't find what to include for it 01:51:57 Poopermex [c9aa41f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.170.65.245] has joined #lisp 01:52:01 I am so sick of niggers! 01:52:04 God damn them! 01:52:09 Their fucking monkeyshines piss me off! 01:52:15 That is why I am a member of Chimpout Forum! 01:52:23 This is the premier niggerhating forum on the Internet! 01:52:33 You can check us out here http://www.chimpout.com/forum 01:52:39 That is not all! 01:52:50 Chimpout Forum has never been a white supremacist forum! 01:52:54 I myself am a Mexican! 01:53:06 Basically, if you are not a NIGGER and you hate NIGGERS, we welcome you with open arms! 01:53:13 Join us at Chimpout Forum today please! 01:53:21 The link is here: http://www.chimpout.com/forum 01:53:30 -!- Radium [~rajesh.na@117.203.3.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:02 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:54:05 no ops here to ban the spambot? 01:54:27 ezakimak: decode-universal-time/get-universal-time? 01:54:52 i don't wanna rewrite it, just figure out what to load and import 01:55:18 what are the most common time/date packages used? it's probably just one of them 01:55:22 ezakimak: in some code you didn't write? I'd guess LOCAL-TIME. 01:55:35 k. will try that 01:56:07 ezakimak do you hate niggers? 01:56:14 pkhuong do you hate niggers? 01:57:34 that was it, thanks 01:58:54 -!- Poopermex [c9aa41f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.170.65.245] has left #lisp 01:59:52 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:02:12 extranapkins [~lolmatt@bas1-toronto03-3096531991.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:03:27 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:16 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:49 -!- extranapkins [~lolmatt@bas1-toronto03-3096531991.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:05:18 extranapkins [~lolmatt@bas1-toronto03-3096531991.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:05:41 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:50 -!- extranapkins [~lolmatt@bas1-toronto03-3096531991.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 02:08:19 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 02:10:09 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-nesomrjdgtjbpziy] has joined #lisp 02:12:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 02:15:31 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176342765.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:42 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:15:52 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176342765.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:15:54 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:36 -!- e271 [d521469d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:24:11 gko [~gko@220.228.255.204] has joined #lisp 02:28:27 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@206.205.176.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:31:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:32:11 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:39 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:27 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:35:31 How to iterate over the slots of a structure easily? 02:37:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:37:31 leo2007: you can't conformingly, without defining a wrapper macro to defstruct to do the needed bookmarking. 02:38:01 leo2007: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/8e06a7470724aa38 02:38:08 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/f687db3424753775 02:38:35 Some implementations have MOP available on structure-objects. Some other may provide other implementation specific things. 02:38:54 pjb: thanks. 02:41:44 OliverUv [~gandhi@h-62-13.a163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 02:44:02 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:45:47 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:48:05 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:49:26 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-141-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:49:43 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.64.170] has joined #lisp 02:53:54 -!- arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-64-7.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:55:51 arrsim [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:a800:4ff:fe00:a04] has joined #lisp 02:58:26 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:59:04 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 02:59:12 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 02:59:37 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A223.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 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[~grettke@CPE-70-92-11-221.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:09 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:51:39 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:52:57 -!- shifty is now known as Guest99086 03:54:47 jewel [~jewel@183.62.46.82] has joined #lisp 03:55:31 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:55:33 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:55 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@252-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:57:58 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 03:59:04 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.16] has joined #lisp 03:59:17 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:04:42 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 04:05:09 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.yhikad.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 04:15:01 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176342381.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:21:44 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:25:35 asvil [~asvil@178.121.217.32] has joined #lisp 04:26:32 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 04:27:29 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:38 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:30:33 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-nesomrjdgtjbpziy] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:33:15 Boston Lisp Meeting this Thursday 2012-05-12 at MIT 32-D463 (Star). Xach on quicklisp. +foom +fare. 04:33:19 http://fare.livejournal.com/166595.html 04:34:14 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 04:35:56 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:36:02 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:09 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:43:09 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-217-188.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 04:47:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:47:41 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7E12.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:50:06 holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 04:52:14 nipra [~nipra@125.20.84.54] has joined #lisp 04:58:16 -!- nipra [~nipra@125.20.84.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:58:25 BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:08 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:00:45 -!- 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as tensorpudding 05:28:02 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-etnzqihdwuzjdzoi] has joined #lisp 05:28:02 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-etnzqihdwuzjdzoi] has quit [Changing host] 05:28:02 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:30:06 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 05:30:27 -!- zophy [~zophy__@24.220.134.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:44 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 05:34:21 -!- cmatei_ [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:39 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:17 -!- Guest96734 is now known as mtd 05:39:47 -!- mtd is now known as Guest40725 05:44:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gmobfnonbzxeoyat] has joined #lisp 05:44:52 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:47:09 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 05:47:19 -!- nydel 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joined #lisp 05:57:40 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 05:58:25 -!- Modius` [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:02:36 -!- Guest40725 is now known as mtd_ 06:02:50 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 06:03:28 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.47.168] has joined #lisp 06:05:34 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 06:06:01 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06:08 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-195-29.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:09:43 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:09:43 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:09:43 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:14:08 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.21.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:15:52 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 06:16:15 mucker [~mucker@183.83.21.171] has joined #lisp 06:22:27 Suppose I'm processing a list, item by item. At each item, I'll make changes to a data structure. Is there a idiom or a higher order procedure to do it in a more functional way? The idea is to execute the same function N times, each time passing the result of the last call as the argument. Here I've created two functions operating in a set, one using recursion and one using `do', to illustrate the idea. 06:22:32 -!- harish [~harish@111.65.28.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:23:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:24:30 <|3b|> is that function doing the same as REMOVE-DUPLICATES? 06:25:16 <|3b|> not sure if it applies to that specific problem, but the general description sounded like REDUCE 06:25:54 |3b|: Nice. I didn't know about `remove-duplicates', thank you. 06:26:03 |3b|: Hum... Reduce... 06:26:10 Great. 06:26:30 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:26:39 Go |3b|! 06:27:56 <|3b|> if you might operate on large lists, you probably wouldn't want to use adjoin like that, might be better to accumulate to a hash table then convert back to a list at the end (REMOVE-DUPLICATES might do that for you, depending on implementation) 06:30:14 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 06:30:28 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:34 robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:38 cymew [~cymew@62-20-124-51.customer.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:30:42 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 06:30:56 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:30:58 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:31:33 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:41 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:38 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32:50 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:33:24 That's great. `remove-duplicates' solves my immediate problem and `reduce', the big picture. Awesome. 06:34:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:35:12 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@176-93-191-189.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:35:24 -!- cymew [~cymew@62-20-124-51.customer.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:35:44 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:54 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:19 metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 06:38:16 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:41:37 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:43:11 -!- holycow [~fekoff@69.172.160.67] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:44:44 ur5us [~ur5us@253.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 06:46:08 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.47.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:46:16 s_view [~s_view@l-man.telenet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:49:24 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:49:27 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:51:49 -!- metaphysician [~matrix@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:52:53 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2b8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:34 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 06:54:59 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 06:55:02 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 06:56:09 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:21 Is there something builtin to flip arguments as in ? 06:58:34 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-gmobfnonbzxeoyat] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:58:36 -!- echo-are` is now known as echo-area 07:00:51 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:02:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pabptrhckdsiyncm] has joined #lisp 07:02:53 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 07:03:30 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:57 Vivitron` [~user@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:45 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:06:45 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:10:25 didi: yes. The built-in is named: (lambda (func) (lambda (x y) (funcall func y x))). 07:10:58 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:10:59 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:11:07 ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has joined #lisp 07:11:25 pjb: Nah, that is the didi's way. 07:11:35 pjb: I saw it at paste.kde.org 07:12:30 didi: All the functions already exist, you only have to find their name. :-) 07:12:38 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:12:50 :^D 07:14:24 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:14:56 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 07:15:43 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 Is there an easier way to trace a (labels) than (trace :encapsulate nil :function (function local-name) :function (function local-name) ...)? 07:16:44 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 07:16:45 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:16:55 (defun my-trace ...) 07:16:55 :D 07:17:02 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 07:17:10 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:17:16 -!- robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:17:46 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:52 -!- echo-are` is now known as echo-area 07:18:42 flip214: this is not conforming (which is ok, but then why searching for an easier way?) 07:18:55 flip214: instead of defun my-trace, you can defmacro tracing-labels. 07:19:09 or just use com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility:tracing-labels 07:19:53 it's just for a single location, so it's not really a problem. 07:20:04 just wanted to know whether SBCL has a shorthand for that. 07:20:15 that's the point of having a library: you can easily add "tracing-" before a "labels" with no fuss. 07:21:05 flip214: another thing you can do, is to implement the shorthand in emacs. 07:21:48 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:14 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:35 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:28:55 pjb: I'm one of the renegades using vim, but thanks all the same ;) 07:29:43 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 07:31:18 -!- pspace [~andrew@c-24-5-81-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:32:27 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:36:14 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:21 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 07:36:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-26-207.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:48 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 07:37:27 Is this too weird? ? 07:38:08 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:38:24 ahinki [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:38:34 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:38:51 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:03 stlifey_ [~stlifey@119.121.146.181] has joined #lisp 07:39:03 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:39:46 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@111.134.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:39:50 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@111.134.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:39:51 didi: use "below end" instead of "to (1- end)" 07:40:05 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:40:23 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.227.9] has joined #lisp 07:40:32 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 07:40:45 flip214: Thanks. 07:41:13 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:47 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-75-117.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:47 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-75-117.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:41:47 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:41:50 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.147.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43:35 has anyone used verrazano (fetter)? http://common-lisp.net/project/fetter? 07:44:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:44:22 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:37 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:06 didi: what are the semantics of the start/end syntax? 07:46:41 adnap: With only one argument, it's end, with two, it's start. 07:47:12 (range 3) => (0 1 2); (range 3 5) => (3 4) 07:47:13 didi: oh, i get it! 07:47:22 didi: that's pretty cool :p 07:47:30 ;^) 07:47:58 didi: is there a rule against having multiple of those expressions? 07:48:11 *adnap* wonders how that would work 07:48:17 adnap: I have no idea. 07:48:26 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:51:43 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:05 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 07:54:14 pandora17 [~eagle@p508D52B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:10 i run gentoo and i have installed both ecl and asdf through the portage tree. i am trying to get slime to run in emacs, but it says: "here is no package with the name ASDF" 07:57:12 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:57:30 *there 07:58:09 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:58:17 good morning 07:58:18 adnap: use quicklisp, http://quicklisp.org/ 08:00:17 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 08:00:45 H4ns: quicklisp seems to break when you do (ql:quickload 'asdf). It can't find any quicklisp-installed system. 08:01:43 H4ns: i will check out quicklisp 08:01:52 the answer to my question was (load "/usr/share/common-lisp/source/asdf/asdf.lisp") 08:01:55 dnm: ping some more 08:02:12 moar 08:02:15 rather, one solution 08:03:12 naryl: you never have to quickload asdf. quicklisp loads asdf automatically, as it uses it for all loading operations. 08:03:31 H4ns: so why not just use asdf? 08:03:56 H4ns: is quicklisp is quicker? :p 08:03:56 adnap: because asdf just loads systems, it does not download them. 08:04:00 H4ns: (ql:quickload 'xcvb) wants newer asdf. (ql:quickload 'asdf) installs the version xcvb wants but then it breaks. 08:04:15 adnap: And quicklisp just downloads systems but does not load them ;) 08:04:28 naryl: i don't use xcvb 08:04:50 Neither do I. Just wanted to check it out. 08:05:02 I need to report it to Xach probably. 08:05:08 naryl: the seems to contradict H4ns. he said quicklisp uses asdf for all loading operations. what loading operations? 08:05:09 naryl: right. 08:05:24 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:05:36 adnap: quicklisp downloads systems, asdf loads them into your lisp-image. 08:05:40 adnap: think of quicklisp as maven and asdf as ant. 08:05:46 :D 08:05:56 what do you think i am, a java programmer? XD 08:06:19 adnap: i think you're someone who does not like to read web pages. 08:06:23 H4ns: what "loading operations" does quicklisp use asdf for? 08:06:56 adnap: loading code into the currently running lisp image. 08:07:26 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 08:08:04 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 08:08:43 H4ns: it depends on the web page. with lisp, i'm not sure where to start. i have some things bookmarked, but i'm currently struggling to set up my lisp environment. i was going to opt for lisp-in-a-box for learning purposes, but all of them appear outdated 08:09:30 adnap: http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 08:09:32 adnap: What OS are you running? 08:09:38 antoszka: gentoo 08:10:18 adnap: use layman to add the lisp overlay, emerge sbcl from there, emerge emacs-vcs, setup quicklisp, use slime/swank from quicklisp and you're done 08:10:19 H4ns: thank you 08:10:32 lisp overlay? O_O 08:10:43 w00t 08:10:46 adnap: this link doesn't really apply to gentoo, feel free to /query me if you want more detailed advice, i'm running gentoo, too. 08:11:32 antoszka: so perhaps i should unmerge slime 08:11:47 adnap: I'd suggest you did. 08:13:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:09 antoszka, i have sbcl from lisp overlay 1.0.55-r1 is the latest in there 08:14:15 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:14:30 emacs and emacs-common-gentoo have slime already included 08:14:47 I prefer running all my libs from quicklisp. 08:14:50 antoszka: emacs-vcs and sbcl are in the main portage tree 08:15:05 antoszka: is quicklisp provided by the lisp overlay? 08:15:12 just add to your ~/.emacs (setq inferior-lisp-program "/usr/bin/sbcl") 08:15:13 no 08:15:16 adnap: No. 08:15:25 adnap: Run the instructions from the quicklisp website. 08:15:27 just download quicklisp.lisp and run it from sbcl on the command line 08:15:39 follow the guide on their page, it's easy-peasy 08:15:49 after that you can use it from w/in slime 08:16:02 well you could load it from slime also 08:16:19 1.0.55 has only *just* gotten into the main portage tree, still it's better to run stuff from the lisp overlay, you'll get more frequent updates, less legacy stuff, etc. 08:16:24 ah, so does the lisp overlap have newer packages, perhaps? 08:16:33 most of the time, yes 08:16:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-35.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:16:50 also, probably #gentoo-lisp is a better place for that discussion 08:17:02 ooh 08:17:20 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:19:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@101.169.171.59] has quit [Quit: Bye] 08:20:35 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.21.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:21:09 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:22:14 mucker [~mucker@202.65.155.202] has joined #lisp 08:24:39 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:25:33 -!- DaDaDOSPrompt [~DaDaDOSPr@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:25:34 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.122.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:27:58 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 08:30:09 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:31:58 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:02 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:38:14 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:40:31 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-11-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:41:29 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-11-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:42:24 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-11-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 08:44:01 -!- |SLB| is now known as [SLB] 08:44:03 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host68-162-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 08:44:03 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 08:44:12 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-11-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:47:33 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:47:45 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:41 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-11-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:49:53 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 08:53:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:55:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-145.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:55:40 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.220.23] has joined #lisp 08:56:41 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:57:14 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:19 ciaranb [~user@w-110.cust-9805.ip.static.uno.uk.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:34 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-230-68.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:41 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:14:20 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:15:00 -!- hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 09:15:01 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:16:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:17:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:17:13 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:17:36 ale` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-39-224-132.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:18:22 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:19:25 hi, is there a way to pass the numerical argument to ~T in format (like ~10T) as a parameter to format itself? 09:19:26 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:20:12 ale`: ~VT 09:20:21 ale`: "In place of a prefix parameter to a directive, V (or v) can be used. In this case, format takes an argument from args as a parameter to the directive." 09:20:36 great, thanks :) 09:21:32 -!- cyb3r3li0g [~eguzman@c-69-254-128-192.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:22:19 Hi all. Is there gui toolkit the same as allegro cg. I mean event passing to CLOS methods, possibility to draw custom widget, etc. 09:22:30 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:22:52 cyb3r3li0g [~eguzman@c-69-254-128-192.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:26 asvil: commonqt, although it is not quite the same as cg. or capi. 09:23:46 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:24:06 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 09:26:02 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-23-103.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:27:22 clg is also undergoing a revival, I believe 09:27:31 (also probably not the same as cg/capi) 09:31:30 -!- pandora17 [~eagle@p508D52B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:31:31 s/ same / similar. I just need to draw spreadsheet with some user interaction. 09:34:11 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 09:34:15 is there a way to get sbcl to produce line numbers on errors?? 09:34:22 or am i doing something wrong 09:34:58 ezakimak: why do you need a line number when you can jump to the exact point of error instead? 09:35:07 how? 09:35:14 ezakimak: SLIME 09:35:18 i'm using slime 09:35:21 no idea how 09:35:33 is there a debug faq/tutorial somewhere? 09:35:34 ezakimak: in backtrace, press 'v' on the frame in question 09:36:03 it just highlights the whole form in question 09:36:29 ezakimak: if it jumps to the function instead of the exact point you should do (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) before compiling your code. 09:37:06 actually, it highlights something in asdf.lisp 09:38:03 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:39:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:41:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:41:40 ahinki_ [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:42:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:42:20 ahinki__ [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:43:21 ezakimak: what is the error you're trying to track? 09:43:29 -!- ahinki [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:43:44 :COMPONENTS is not of type list in my .asd file 09:43:53 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:44:10 but it is... 09:44:19 ezakimak: well yes, the error would be triggered in asdf's parser. 09:44:26 ezakimak: try and lisppaste your definition 09:45:10 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA050C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:59 did it paste? 09:45:59 -!- ahinki_ [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:42 ezakimak: no. 09:47:18 graspee [~graspee@02dd1c10.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:27 there 09:47:37 i think 09:47:41 it still hangs on success 09:47:53 ezakimak: v jumps you to the source of that frame of the backtrace, you can navigate with n/p 09:49:08 pkhuong, anything? 09:49:10 -!- ale` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-39-224-132.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:49:12 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:50:24 ezakimak: the error is "The value :COMPONENTS is not of type LIST." You wrote the symbol :COMPONENTS where a list was expected. 09:50:37 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:50:53 -!- prip [~foo@host117-121-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:50:53 oh, i found it 09:51:19 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:51:25 ezakimak: letting emacs indent stuff for you will make these mistakes more obvious. 09:51:34 that was subtle 09:51:39 i do let emacs indent 09:51:54 i moved a depends-on line around and messed it up, but checking parens it looked okay 09:52:55 ezakimak: C-j reindented so that :components and :depends-on weren't be on the same column. 09:52:59 and btw, emacs gets some things indented poorly, such as in defsystem, it doesn't know when things aren't regular forms 09:53:25 SLIME gets its quite right here. 09:54:53 I don't see anything obviously wrong in http://paste.lisp.org/+2RVV/1. 09:55:14 i don't want :depends-on indented the same level as :module's parameter, i want it the same as :module 09:55:42 ezakimak: have you looked at my paste? 09:56:07 i don't have the paste link 09:56:20 the paren counting on paste.lisp.org is broken, as it seems 09:56:33 ezakimak: try and read 5 lines up. 09:57:14 it didn't display to me, cause it's my handle 09:57:38 ahinki [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:57:47 and the submit hangs w/o giving me the link 09:58:07 ezakimak: that is a known bug. 09:58:31 H4ns: is the bug complex that nobody has fixed it? 09:58:36 and it wouldn't paste w/o my handle, guess i coulda given it someone elses, but it should check ip from whois to stop spam 09:58:37 jdz: seems like it. 09:58:39 ezakimak: I have no clue what you're trying to say. I wrote an URL. Paste that in any browser's address bar and you'll be taken to my annotation. 09:58:57 oh, i didn't see that 09:59:01 jdz: stassats took over the bots and lisppaste, but that particular problem he seemingly could not fix easily. 09:59:07 thought you meant my pastebin 09:59:19 -!- ahinki__ [~ahinki@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:59:34 pkhuong, yes, that was the error 09:59:50 ezakimak: no my point is that this is how slime indents this form, automatically. 10:00:13 not in mine 10:00:20 hang on, i'll show you 10:00:30 well then, time to get slime to smarten up. 10:01:21 I think the logic is in slime-asdf and/or slime-indentation. Both these contribs (and many more) are probably loaded in when you require slime-fancy, though. 10:01:28 i pasted what it looks like if I let it have it's way 10:02:52 hey, someone should add that pastebin's color-coded paren matching to emacs 10:03:06 -!- stlifey_ [~stlifey@119.121.146.181] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 10:03:12 right. after he's fixed it so that it actually works :/ 10:03:31 arnuld [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/arnuld] has joined #lisp 10:03:31 oh. well, the idea is fantastic 10:03:48 ezakimak: so. My .emacs has (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf slime-indentation)) (and a couple other irrelevant contribs). 10:04:01 prip [~foo@host191-131-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:04:15 if you want to have "algorithmic mind" or "problem-solving brain" what you need to study in programming ? e.g 10:04:27 Write a fucntion which takes a BST and returns a list of its elements from greatest to least 10:04:40 problems like these: explained here: http://www.bigriddles.com/riddle/dropping-eggs-from-a-building 10:05:00 Take SICP for exmaple. I wonder how to develop that kind of thinking 10:05:17 pkhuong, if i eval that do i have to restart slime for it to take effect? 10:05:26 didn't seem to do anything to indenting mode in .asd file 10:05:51 ezakimak: http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/11571143331/reloading-slime-without-restarting-emacs 10:06:49 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 10:07:39 arnuld: are you talking to yourself? 10:08:22 of course not 10:08:28 what you mean ? 10:08:34 arnuld: if you want a "problem-solving brain" then solve problems 10:09:25 pkhuong, hrm. didn't work. dropped me into the debugger 10:09:29 arnuld: lisp is built around lambda-calculus 10:09:39 arnuld: predicate-logic 10:09:56 homie: lisp is built around programming 10:09:56 can i just run that slime-setup command in .emacs though, after slime is loaded? (before it's invoked) 10:09:58 homie: I know, I thought predicate-logic was prerequisite to becoming a good programmer 10:10:14 ezakimak: yes, it's meant to go in your .emacs 10:10:16 arnuld: what makes you think so? 10:10:20 jdz: hmm.. I did not know that. Thanks 10:10:21 araujo, i never took that class. may have been helpful theory 10:10:29 ezakimak: slime without a slime-setup call is pretty bare. 10:10:35 arnuld: i think class logic pred-logic, lambda-calc all that helps maths in general.... 10:10:42 it probably has one in my site-lisp folder that loads it for me 10:11:03 arnuld: lisp is a multi-paradigm language, with a focus on writing programs, and not around one or the other "theory" 10:11:26 arnuld: the only thing common lisp has common with lambda calculus is probably the word LAMBDA 10:11:49 -!- nipra [~nipra@125.20.84.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:12:22 still, the lambda symbol makes a good logo for many projects! 10:12:51 except in Greece, where people think they are all boring 10:13:17 like, what's the point of making a logo of a single letter for anything? 10:13:21 buut I solved some interview problems in seconds when I learned Common-LIsp (solved right there in interview) 10:13:38 I was struggling with those problems from last 2 years (using C,C++) 10:13:52 like what? recursive solutions to problems? 10:14:02 pkhuong, hey that did work. thanks 10:14:14 well, I was asked, How can I print factorial without using for loop 10:14:24 arnuld, recursively. 10:14:28 immediately to my mind struct the page of ANSI Common Lisp 10:14:42 easy: use a while loop. 10:14:48 arnuld, or implement the closed function for it 10:14:59 though I have read reccursion 5 times from K&R2 in C, but was never been able to think when question comes 10:15:12 pkhuong: without using *any* loop 10:15:14 of course that requires asking for the nth item 10:15:22 but you can recur on that also 10:15:28 ezakimak: closed function ? 10:15:30 nipra [~nipra@125.20.84.54] has joined #lisp 10:15:39 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:15:43 there is a closed formula for the nth digit of the fibonacci series 10:16:00 nth element, whatever you call it 10:16:04 so you have paul graham leaping into your brain during interviews? 10:16:20 like a weird kind of textbook séance (of the living) 10:16:31 i shouldn't have started that comparison. failed. 10:16:49 ezakimak: you need a good approximation of the golden ratio. n better be small. 10:17:01 dont know but I also never forgot Binasy-Search done once in Lisp from ACL. though I have done in C 100 times and never understood 10:17:06 Biinary* 10:17:10 Binary* 10:17:12 :-\ 10:17:18 Of course, if we're dealing in C, it's just a table lookup and a branch into undefined behaviour.. 10:17:34 okay, tell what what do you guys think about SICP, what makes SICP different from all other texts ? 10:17:50 arnuld: I don't know, you're the only who seems interested in SICP here. 10:17:58 i had to derive the formula for a math class once. i found it entertaining 10:18:22 *arnuld* is mro einterested in understanding how google implemented MapReduce and changing it 10:18:35 how did they change it? 10:18:42 they did not, I want to 10:18:46 oh. 10:18:53 change it how/why? 10:19:05 changing a.k.a improving 10:19:09 they've documented how they implemented it in their paper 10:19:34 SICP is a very computer science book, as opposed to a "learn this language" book 10:19:35 improve it? why does it need improving? it's a method of computation 10:19:43 yeah, my head hurts when I read that because I cant understand much 10:20:11 are you trolling? 10:20:14 Map/Reduce framework itself is very simple, basically a C/C++/Java distributed version of MAP and REDUCE calls (or Erlang's pmap) 10:20:20 ezakimak: helll no 10:20:26 I wanted to read MapReduce paper and understand it as easy like eating food 10:20:36 the rest is in details involving actual google infrastructure iirc 10:20:37 right now its like climing Mount Everest 10:21:04 well, sometimes you have to just let your brain think on it in the background, internalize stuff, then it just "clicks" and away you go 10:23:16 so the only thing I am missing is I am not giving much time to think over 10:23:35 SICP is a good book but be aware it uses scheme not CL so if you want to learn CL, although you're learning Good Things and Ways (tm), you're learning them with a scheme rather than CL syntax 10:23:35 repeat 10:23:38 well, learning does take time 10:23:40 repeatedly 10:24:31 if it didn't we'd all finish college in a day... 10:24:31 if you know both syntaxes you can convert between them in your head almost 10:24:49 ofc there are hairy details stuff..... 10:25:32 i would think it would be easier to translate a lisp1 program to a lisp2 rather than the other way around (symbol collisions) 10:27:31 well i like the cl syntax more 10:27:40 i dunno why..... 10:27:58 homie: there's a translation of SICP code exercises to CL 10:28:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:28:06 oh 10:28:33 hmmm, haven't looked yet, when i do snippets i do the converstion myself mostly.... 10:28:49 well i didn't do much snippets yet.... 10:29:41 i think i don't know scheme syntax fully.... 10:29:49 so lisp-1 to lisp-2 is easy yes 10:30:09 the other way around i would have more problems .... 10:30:28 hmmm, have to get a cheat sheet for both syntaxes actually.... 10:31:14 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-040.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 10:31:37 and i would like to try some of those snippets.... 10:32:19 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:33:04 homie, i fixed that to fit standard letter size 10:33:04 i already have clqr 10:33:19 just not something for scheme .... 10:33:21 oh. 10:33:38 the scheme standard takes the same space as clqr 10:33:38 i got the din-a4 version 10:33:46 ah 10:33:55 and i don't know which one to pick actually 10:34:09 i just grabbed the latex sources and built them all 10:34:09 it's so confusing....r7rs ? r6rs ? 10:34:17 oh. nm. you meant which standard 10:34:19 take r5rs 10:34:23 ah ok 10:34:32 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:43 so that's the oldest ? 10:34:48 nobody likes r6rs, and r7rs is not ready yet 10:35:27 ok 10:35:28 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:35:29 stassats`: I have a r6rs zealot sitting three meters to the left. 10:35:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-62-19.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 10:35:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-62-19.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:35:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:35:52 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-040.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:36:13 and actually, r5rs has 50 pages, clqr has 52 pages 10:37:44 i printed clqr too 10:37:53 just in case...... 10:38:04 would somebody think of the trees?! 10:38:50 i don't own a wood house! 10:39:56 Greetings! 10:40:51 Could somebody help me with little problem? 10:40:52 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ergoopcinmdaaocx] has joined #lisp 10:40:56 yes 10:41:27 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:43:47 So, I'm trying to save lisp machine state in the binary file via save-lisp-and-die (I'm using sbcl) and all goes OK. But when I'm trying to run it says that something is wrong and throws me in ldb. I think it's because I'm using SDL but it's installed correctly. What I should do? I'm using sbcl 1.0.55 and mac os. And really sorry for my English, it's not my native language. 10:44:27 using shared libraries as well as s-l-a-d is nontrivial 10:44:41 hitecnologys: do you reinitialize SDL before interacting with it? 10:44:43 because they have to be loaded after the image restarts. I don't recall the details though 10:44:44 hitecnologys: can you try doing it without loading sdl? 10:45:13 kpreid: it mostly happens automagically when the images are started from the same machine they were saved on. 10:45:32 unless sdl requires some initialization sequence to be performed 10:46:21 So, I need just to reload SDL before saving or what? I'm very newbie in lisp& =( 10:46:35 no, immediately after 10:47:48 Tried it. Got the same error. 10:48:09 i guess you need to _unload_ sdl before saving the image, too. 10:48:15 if that is even possible 10:48:16 kpreid: saving an image only saves the state of the lisp program. Anything that happened outside (e.g. in C libraries) must be run again. And keeping references to C-side objects (or files, sockets, etc) will just not work. 10:48:26 that was for hitecnologys, sorry. 10:48:52 hitecnologys: why do you want to save an image anyway? 10:49:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:49:16 are you using lispbuilder-sdl? 10:49:47 H4ns: Just to understand how it works. It's not re necessary. 10:49:59 stassats: Yes. 10:50:05 really* 10:50:44 hitecnologys: for deployment, you'd load all code that you need and save an image before starting anything. 10:51:22 hitecnologys: for some libraries, it might be necessary to explicitly deinitialize and/or unload them before saving the image. 10:51:24 just loading lispbuilder-sdl and saving&loading an image works here 10:51:38 hitecnologys: Well, now you know: saving an image saves the state of the lisp implementation, re-creating the full state of the process (including the C heap) is next to impossible. So, if you must save an image, you'll probably end up doing what H4ns says, and saving code and data, but leave all the setup and initialisation to after the image has been resumed. 10:52:50 Oh, I realized what I should do! I need to add reloading lispbuilder-sdl to the main function? 10:53:17 not the whole lispbuilder-sdl 10:53:54 pnq [~nick@172.129.14.52] has joined #lisp 10:54:30 Only reload library or what? 10:54:31 do you run any sdl code before saving? 10:54:49 No. 10:54:56 because if i just load the code, it's fine, but if i run some sdl code, i get a memory error on start up 10:55:56 Yeah, I gotting memory error too. But I'm just loading it via (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :system) and then running (save-lisp-and-die filename :toplevel #'main :executable t) 10:55:59 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 10:56:58 hitecnologys: does the error say something about finalizers? 10:57:49 No, mostly Invalid connection errors. 10:57:59 hitecnologys: can you try doing (lispbuilder-sdl:quit-sdl) before save-lisp-and-die? 10:58:12 hitecnologys: how do you save the image? From SLIME? 10:59:23 pkhuong: no from sbcl console that is running in the other window. 10:59:49 stassts: Yeah, wait a minute. 11:00:15 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-201-216.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:22 stassts: Getting the same errors. 11:00:42 i also found http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/wiki/StandAloneExecutables 11:01:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-63-239.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 11:01:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@188-143-63-239.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:01:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:02:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:37 the advice to do cffi:define-foreign-library is a bit strange, since sbcl reloads the libraries 11:03:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:39 Lol, I've forgot about (cffi:use-foreign-library sdl) 11:04:30 anyway, i was trying it on Linux, maybe it's different on os x 11:04:51 -!- guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 11:05:37 Maybe. But I'm clearly know that adding (cffi:use-foreign-library sdl) changes nothing. =( 11:06:01 So, fuck this shit. Sorry for my French. 11:06:04 not surprising, because sbcl does that automatically 11:07:19 Maybe better idea is just forget about saving lisp machine states on os x. I've tried to do it on windows and it works fine with the same code. Apple 11:07:24 hitecnologys: does your program work if you don't try to save an image first? 11:07:29 Yes 11:07:34 It works OK. 11:08:17 if i have a (setf object-id) gf, can i specify a slot's initform to it directly? eg (id :initform object-id) ? 11:08:54 ezakimak: i don't get the question 11:09:18 ezakimak: no, you need an initialize-instance method for that. 11:09:59 what about (id :type id :initform object-id) ? 11:10:13 hitecnologys: yeah, apple's GUI stuff is kind of brittle. I think lispbuilder used to have a couple workarounds, but it's hard to tell when all the holes have been plugged. 11:10:20 pkhuong: This is the whole code that I'm trying to save if you're interested in it: https://github.com/HiTECNOLOGYs/ISOL 11:10:39 ezakimak: what about that? 11:10:44 ezakimak: are those slot descriptions for defclass? 11:10:47 clhs defclass 11:10:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 11:10:51 yes 11:10:56 you can read there all the possible options 11:11:03 ezakimak: it does not do what you want. you need an initialize-instance method 11:11:05 hitecnologys: not interested, no. It might be useful to make sure you get the same failure with lispbuilder-sdl's own examples, though. 11:11:32 er (id :type id :initform (object-id)) ? 11:11:49 ezakimak: what are you really trying to do? 11:11:52 ezakimak: if you don't need the instance, then that would be fine. 11:11:57 pkhuong: Good idea. I'll try it. 11:13:24 what I want, is for the initform to be called for me w/o having to specilaze make-instance for every class i create 11:13:49 ezakimak: an initialize-instance method would be called for derived classes, too 11:13:53 they will all have a uniform id slot, and object-id is already specialized as both a getter and a setf-able gf that will generate new ids for me 11:14:23 i just want that id generator called for me with minimal boiler plate 11:14:55 ezakimak: if the id generator does not need access to the created object, then what you last wrote is just fine 11:14:59 *ezakimak* assumes a macro is probably in order here 11:15:07 ezakimak: what doesn't work with that example? I'm still trying to understand the question here. Are you wondering if initform works when you defined setter and getter gfs? 11:15:27 i'm just not sure if it works the way I think i understand 11:15:40 how do you think it works? 11:15:49 i'm hoping it just does :) 11:15:56 did you try it?! 11:16:11 ezakimak: is "object-id" the generic function that you are talking about? 11:16:16 yes 11:16:27 it is 11:16:30 ezakimak: and why is it a generic function if it does not take any parameters? 11:16:46 i dunno. i didn't write it 11:16:59 ezakimak: you wrote :initform (object-id) 11:17:08 i didn't write the function 11:17:52 how will initform invoke object-id ? 11:18:04 just like you wrote it 11:18:07 (object-id) 11:18:08 oh. 11:18:12 ezakimak: you have used object-id as both an accessor and a nullary function here. 11:18:13 that won't work. 11:18:13 no magic happening. 11:18:33 Tried (save-lisp-and-die "test" :toplevel #'lispbuilder-sdl-examples:mandelbrot :executable t) and getting the same error. Not sure if I stupid or just something wrong with sdl.framework. Anyway I reccomend just don't touch the s-l-a-d on os x. 11:18:35 ezakimak: should i repeat what i wrote about initialize-instance methods, or can you scroll up and read it yourself? 11:19:26 ezakimak: do you need the object to determine its id? 11:19:57 i believe so 11:20:49 so is there no way to refer to object from the :initform syntax within the defclass? 11:20:53 ezakimak: NO 11:20:56 ok. 11:21:12 ezakimak: what makes you not want an initialize-instance method? 11:21:24 cause i'm gonna have lots of these 11:21:39 ezakimak: do you know how method invocations in class hierarchies work? 11:21:43 wanted to just be able to sprinkle something in an initform and be done 11:22:16 you talking about generic methods or initialize-instance, :before, :after, etc? 11:22:30 ezakimak: you could have a mixin class that has the id slot and an intitialize-instance method to set up the id, and then have your classes inherit from the mixin 11:22:33 ezakimak: initialize-instance is a generic function. 11:23:11 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA050C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:23 yes, i know. but he asked about invocations, and I didn't know if he meant specialization or sequence 11:23:53 ezakimak: i meant generic function method invocation in class hierarchies. 11:24:06 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:24:09 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:24:18 I'm still trying to understand why there is a need to initialise the id slot when it's simply caching the result of object-id. 11:24:56 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA050C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:01 pkhuong: maybe it should be unique for each object, but constant throughout the object's life span? 11:26:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:26:23 ezakimk: Even I know that if you write (defmethod initialize-instance ((obj Your-class)) (do-something)) and then (defclass Some-other-class (Your-class) ) it will call initialize-instance for Your-class if you mean that by lots of initialize-instances of course. 11:27:06 pkhouong: I think that he's trying to set an unique id for each object he creating via make-instance. 11:27:11 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 11:27:12 H4ns: sure... the slot can just be left unbound until object-id computes it once. 11:27:27 pkhuong: that may be true 11:28:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:28:16 the problem is a unique id space for each class 11:28:35 if they all inherit from the same mixin, with a single initialize-instance for that mixin, don't they all share the same id space? 11:28:35 pkhuong, H4ns: and so using macroses here is a good idea, sure? 11:28:45 a macro is what I was thinking 11:28:48 ezakimak: how would object-id work if initform did what you wanted it to? 11:29:19 ezakimak: what prevents you from using the class of the intialized instance to determine the id space? 11:29:23 hitecnologys: not at all. 11:29:30 well, if there was a syntax to be able to pass the object to the initform, the initform could use a gf 11:29:50 H4ns, from within the initform, that's all. 11:29:59 i get that it can't be done there 11:30:00 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@253.194.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:30:04 i was hoping otherwise 11:30:11 ezakimak: object-id is a function or an object? 11:30:11 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA050C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:30:16 a function 11:30:30 call it gen-id if that's easier 11:30:37 And it generates an id for each instance? 11:30:41 ezakimak: is it the same gf as the reader? 11:30:52 same name 11:31:11 let's just call it gen-id to not get confused 11:31:15 ezakimak: if it has the same name it's the same generic function. 11:31:51 k. let's use a different name then. 11:32:02 ah that makes much more sense now. 11:32:19 leave object-id as a getter and setter 11:32:25 and gen-id to create new ids 11:32:34 sorry for confusing things 11:32:43 ezakimak: so, what's wrong with initialize-instance then? It can simply call gen-id, and you get to define methods on gen-id as you want. 11:33:22 making it setf'able just means you can do (setf (object-id obj) value), right? 11:33:31 or does making it a getter allow that already? 11:34:04 pkhuong, i just wanted to save typing and be able to do it in the initform 11:34:08 ezakimak: a reader is a regular function like any other. If you don't define a setf expansion or a setf function, you'll get an error. 11:34:27 ok. that makes sense 11:34:45 so :accessor does both for me, right? 11:34:50 right. 11:35:12 minion: tell ezakimak about keene 11:35:14 ezakimak: please look at keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/keene 11:35:23 it's in the mail :) 11:35:30 ezakimak: well, there might be a hack with a generator function stowed in some class-allocated slot. Not sure it's good taste though. 11:39:11 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 11:40:13 (I guess the right way to simplify this would be with a metaclass, but I don't think the win in concision and clarity is that significant) 11:40:36 Sorry, guys, I know that it's not topic for this channel but who knows how to cook bread with gluten-free flour? I've done what is written on the package but then I got only a piece of shit =| 11:40:59 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:41:00 hitecnologys: it is indeed extremely off topic. 11:41:01 gehts noch_ 11:41:43 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:42:24 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 11:42:26 ignas__ [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:42:30 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 11:43:40 pkhuong: I'm from Russia. Maybe it explains a lot. ;) 11:44:29 hitecnologys: How does it explain asking offtopic questions? ;) 11:44:55 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:00 -!- ignas__ is now known as ignas 11:45:02 hitecnologys: there are newsgroups about cooking bread, and most certainly irc channels too. Use google to find them! 11:45:20 bread machines 11:46:55 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-57.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:33 strobegen [~strobe@l-man.telenet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:47:49 am0c [~am0c@175.127.181.245] has joined #lisp 11:47:49 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 11:49:24 -!- arnuld [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/arnuld] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:03 arnuld [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has joined #lisp 11:50:28 -!- arnuld [~chatzilla@124.123.173.211] has quit [Changing host] 11:50:28 arnuld [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/arnuld] has joined #lisp 11:50:37 Where can I find CLUE (CLX GUI) repo? 11:51:10 naryl: Vodka 11:51:16 some uni maybe.... 11:53:19 some bears 11:54:01 And matrioshkas of course! 11:54:47 hitecnologys: I'm sorry to spoil your fun but you're not the first. 11:55:10 (And others happen to avoid offtopic somehow) 11:55:16 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-215.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:35 I know. Sorry. 11:55:39 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 11:55:58 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 11:57:33 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:106:dd5d:58b1:845e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:10 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:31 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:01:33 jix [~jix@jixco.de] has joined #lisp 12:03:02 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.227.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:04:24 russians perpetuating stereotypes about themselves? how quaint 12:06:36 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-26-207.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:06:36 MassPingXperimnt [~Nucltinni@ip70-179-170-114.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:48 -!- strobegen [~strobe@l-man.telenet.ru] has left #lisp 12:07:14 stassats`: Omsk. This indeed explains much :D 12:07:24 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 12:08:21 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.14.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:09:31 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:11:00 pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:15:21 -!- MassPingXperimnt is now known as YourKidDies 12:18:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:19:28 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:50 -!- YourKidDies [~Nucltinni@ip70-179-170-114.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:37 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:47 ? 12:22:08 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:23:52 ATroll [46b3aa72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.170.114] has joined #lisp 12:24:19 _3b __class__ __main__ _root_ _tca ``Erik a7p abeaumont acieroid add^_ adeht adnap aerique ahinki airolson alanpearce alvis am0c Amadiro angavrilov anthracite antifuchs AntiSpamMeta antoszka aperture araujo arbscht ArmyOfBruce arnuld arrsim asvil ATroll axion Axioplase_ basho__ BeLucid BigEndian billstclair BlastHardcheese bobbysmith007 Borbus borkman boyscared brendyn btbngr Bucciarati Buglouse cataska_ ccl-logbot ccomendant ChibaPet 12:24:26 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Kryztof 12:24:39 -!- ATroll is now known as TROHL 12:24:41 certain lack of imagination here. 12:24:46 \/nick oiewfieofiweionreuiognerg 12:24:57 -!- TROHL is now known as oiewfieofiweionr 12:25:03 sporous [~sporous@antispammeta/bot/irssi/sporous] has joined #lisp 12:25:09 -!- oiewfieofiweionr [46b3aa72@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.170.114] has left #lisp 12:25:39 more than usually anodyne, yes 12:25:59 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:28:07 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:57 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176342381.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:32:42 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.202] has joined #lisp 12:34:32 zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-kpqaieppqhsfxnan] has joined #lisp 12:36:03 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:08 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:36:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:37:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:37:41 pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:00 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:58 dialga [53c7c347@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.199.195.71] has joined #lisp 12:41:46 hi, everyone. 12:41:51 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:42:36 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:42:39 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:43:24 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-012.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:36 pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:24 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:04 i try to do a lisp interpreter, in c. is appropriate to speak about c code for this node ? 12:46:20 Yes. 12:46:31 dialga: but my advice is to write your lisp interpreter in lisp! 12:48:36 You can limit yourself to a very simple subset of CL, that can be easily translated to C. So eventually you may translate your lisp interpreter written in lisp into C, but with the advantage of being able to use CL for interactive development and macros for abstraction. 12:49:20 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 12:49:39 Also, there are various lisp to C translator already existing, and there are CL implementations generating C code and using gcc as their assembler. 12:51:35 dialga: Also, read: Lisp in Small Pieces http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/Books/LiSP-2ndEdition-2006Dec11.tgz 12:51:35 pjb: i have no choice. it's for study; we are supposed to know only c, and a little lisp. :( 12:51:49 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA050C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 dialga: that's why you should write it in lisp! So that you learn more lisp. If you write a program in C, then you'll learn C. Better write it in lisp so that you learn lisp! 12:52:57 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.127.181.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:13 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:54:25 dialga: you had a question? 12:54:42 H4ns: yep 12:54:45 -!- nipra [~nipra@125.20.84.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:55:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-012.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:55:09 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:55:15 i do not how do define. 12:55:22 http://codepad.org/Hwq18ONY 12:55:57 pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:58 i'm not a crack in lisp and i begin c. 12:56:21 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176342381.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 12:56:27 dialga: that is not a "question". if you need the kind of help that you seem to need, you should talk to your peers or your ta. 12:56:49 dialga: A book is a good idea. 12:57:05 I'm sure SICP has the answer. 12:57:15 The lexical environments. 12:57:22 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:57:33 dialga: your implementation is doing too much, and I don't see too much reusing.. You need just very few core primitives, and then build on top of them 12:58:42 dialga: your Node should be called "struct cons" and have only two memebres, car and cdr.. Assuming you going to be using NULL as nil, then you build your abstractions on top of that only.. 12:59:04 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:59:09 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:46 maxm-: I think it builds cons on top of list. 13:00:09 dialga: Should be the other way around. 13:00:43 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 13:02:02 hum 13:02:37 dialga: also I don't see how your Lisp_typeOf works.. sizeof(atom) will always be the same, since its a pointer 13:02:58 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:11 would you need, is a generic pointer to something, and then figuring out what that pointer means 13:03:23 it is too late to change implementation -- dead line is for the next monday. 13:04:45 maxm-: yes, i have realized. 13:04:51 You may have to change implementation anyway because of define. 13:05:50 Without it you just need to evaluate the forms recursively. It's not so simple when you have define. 13:06:47 the easiest way is to have everything boxed, (which means integers and floats are always inside a structure).. So you need to define something like struct BoxedObject { int type; union {int i; float f; double d; char *s; struct Cons }} 13:07:16 -!- arnuld [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/arnuld] has left #lisp 13:07:19 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.227.9] has joined #lisp 13:07:20 means your object will be probably two machine pointer words in size 13:07:32 then start by defining predicates for object types 13:08:09 vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-255-030.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 13:08:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:38 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:45 inline bool atom(BoxedObject *o) { return !o || o->type == INT || o->type == FLOAT || o->type == STRING ... } 13:08:49 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:13 atom === (not cons) 13:09:16 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:37 maxm-: i have not found a way to type in the union, to know what it contains. 13:09:58 then write functions to build your objects, such alloc_int(), alloc_string() and such.. You can call alloc_cons() just cons() 13:10:18 then build list() out of calling cons() recursively 13:10:42 kiuma [~kiuma@proxykno.emea.fedex.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:09 as it takes the greatest type, i can not know after that there has inside ? 13:11:23 dialga: you don't keep type in the union, your BoxedObject should contain 2 memebers, int type, and the then union for all possible objects 13:12:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:13:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:13:12 #lisp -- the place to go for tutorial on C 13:13:17 I defined them inline to be short. You want to do it separately for clearness. typedef union {int i; float f} BoxedObjectUnion; typedef struct { int type; BoxedObjectUnion u } BoxedObject. Then you access type as o->type and values as o->u.i for integers, o->u.f for floats and so on 13:13:35 ok gona stop 13:13:56 but its an ambiguous project, and he'll learn a lot by doing it, and maybe come back 2 years later with awesome lisp library 13:14:03 :3 13:14:30 Why there a C code on #lisp channel?! 13:14:47 there is a* 13:14:52 hitecnologys: It's about implementing lisp. 13:15:00 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:15:11 naryl: Ah, okay. 13:15:22 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:16:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:18:07 maxm-: thanks. 13:18:22 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:19:09 would ##c be happy with lisp code implementing C? 13:19:36 -!- mucker [~mucker@202.65.155.202] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:20:47 lisp programmers not understanding C are useless. They are the ones who come here asking for on how to y-combinate their with monads to make facebook killer 13:22:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:23:46 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pabptrhckdsiyncm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:10 -!- hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.227.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:24:19 hitecnologys [~noname@46.233.227.9] has joined #lisp 13:24:40 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nexdiqqlguhijnas] has joined #lisp 13:25:35 stassats`: now back to lisp, why do values in inspector have highlight face, but not right-click menu? Seems there is ability to copy them to repl, via M-RET, but imho copying to kill ring would be more useful.. imho same menu as presentations (ie copy to kill ring, pretty print, etc) is called for there 13:25:37 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:26:07 because nobody implemented it 13:27:53 pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:12 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 13:29:44 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@111.134.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:31:04 jamper [jamper@net-2-32-209-240.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 13:31:31 -!- jamper [jamper@net-2-32-209-240.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Client Quit] 13:31:45 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:24 how do you delete a generic method? (makunbound it) 13:34:12 actually, same question for normal funtions also 13:36:38 ezakimak: (fmakunbound it) 13:36:52 found that. but I want to only remove one specialization of it, not all of it 13:37:03 remove-method? 13:37:06 ezakimak: inspect the gf in slime 13:37:38 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:03 stassats: what does that mean? 13:38:03 Could (setf (symbol-function func) nil) be used to remove function? 13:38:24 dekuked: what is? 13:38:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:33 that will unbind the symbol from it, sure, but only regular functions I think 13:38:58 hitecnologys: it cannot be, nil is not a function 13:39:08 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:39:32 dekuked: gf = generic function 13:39:32 pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:51 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ergoopcinmdaaocx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:39:53 ezakimak: so, did you inspect it? 13:39:58 dunno how 13:40:01 stassats`: ok. understood. 13:40:09 i tried remove-method, can't get the syntax right 13:40:16 ezakimak: C-c I 13:40:24 ezakimak: C-c I #'function 13:41:07 oh that's cool 13:41:37 ah, I didn't get that meant generic function. my bad. 13:42:38 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:43:04 does a in slime always do abort? 13:43:04 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-255-030.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 13:43:11 Can someone tell me if (declare (type SomeClass vriable)) is correct or not? 13:43:14 ezakimak: it does 13:43:25 hitecnologys: it is correct 13:43:31 omg. i've been annoyed to no end having a diff # for abort each time 13:43:39 hitecnologys: whenever you define a class defclass, there also is a type created with the same name 13:43:43 about time i read the slime docs 13:43:46 stassats`: Thanks. 13:45:26 stassats`: and the same with defstruct or not? 13:45:35 clhs defstruct 13:45:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 13:46:32 nice. it has a full crossreference facility builtin. 13:46:57 -!- ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:59 -!- xyxu [~Adium@58.41.12.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:47:34 hitecnologys: as you can see from the clhs, it's the same 13:47:45 yeah. 13:48:08 and if you don't specify :type list or some else type, it will also create a class 13:48:27 so, you can use structures for specializing methods on them 13:48:37 hitecnologys: why do you want to declare the type of that variable? 13:48:45 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 13:49:18 ccomendant [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ccomendant] has joined #lisp 13:49:33 hitecnologys: i'm asking because if what you really want is _check_ the type of the variable, you should use check-type instead of a declaration. 13:49:42 H4ns: I think this will speed up my programm? 13:50:12 A declaration is a promise to the compiler; if you break it all bets are off. 13:50:23 This can allow the compiler to optimize stuff. 13:50:34 So the question is -- do you care about safety or speed? 13:50:48 hitecnologys: declare types only if you actually know that the declaration will be useful. 13:51:00 Zhivago: it can make things slower too 13:51:24 Speed of course 'cause my previous main language was C so I don't care about types checking as I can control it by myself. 13:51:55 well, you have to break that habit 13:51:58 hitecnologys: if you want to write c, write c 13:52:03 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-nexdiqqlguhijnas] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:50 No, I want to skip type checkings to save some resources. 13:53:02 hitecnologys: don't 13:53:38 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810E34.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:54:09 So declaring types is a bad habit? 13:54:10 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:31 hitecnologys: it is something that you should do only when you actually know that it is good 13:54:44 hitecnologys: so, for a starting lisp programmer, it is a bad habit. 13:54:57 Okay, what about optimize? 13:55:13 hitecnologys: don't use it. 13:55:20 declaring types would often make things slower than not 13:55:25 on SBCL 13:55:52 Okay. Wrote this to my brain's hard drive. ;) 13:56:19 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:56:21 stassats: really? wow, that's counter-intuitive. 13:56:23 you need to know when and where to declare types 13:56:41 dekuked: not really, it adds additional type checking 13:57:34 stassats`, H4ns: Thx again. 13:59:15 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:00:02 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-23-103.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:08 As I see, the main rule in programming now is: "Thrust compiler. It knows best!". 14:00:49 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 14:00:54 minion: advice on optimization? 14:00:54 #11908: Premature optimization is the root of all evil. 14:01:08 add^_ [~add^_^@m83-190-143-133.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:02:17 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:02 hitecnologys: it is still important to know what the cost of an operation is, but compilers are much better at micro-optimizing than humans. what they can't fix is bad architecture and bad choice of data structure. 14:04:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@183.62.46.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:19 H4ns: Yeah, the architecture is very important part of any program. 14:06:21 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 14:06:45 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:06:57 -!- s_view [~s_view@l-man.telenet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-212.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:10:06 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:11:30 *madnificent* sometimes likes to microoptimize 14:11:49 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.217.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:12:34 stassats`: afaik, they don't make it slower if you set safety to 0, which is what you'd likely do if you're doing micro-optimization 14:12:44 its like this, once you profiled it and its on top of the profile, then optimize 14:12:59 are slot initforms evaluated after initialize-instance is called? 14:13:13 that is if its rationally running too slow for you 14:13:22 maxm-: IRL you'd add "when it's too slow" 14:13:26 maxm-: you win 14:14:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:14:21 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 14:14:30 an example for my app was: using scroll wheel to change color saturation rapidly, and my chart redraw could not keep up -> ok I'll profile you -> nikodemus gets involved -> found corner case in sbcl ffi as well as improved my design a lot 14:14:41 but i developed for a year without worrying about performance before that case 14:15:14 add^_^ [~add^_^@m212-152-0-148.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:15:30 About optimizations: Is there's any library for lisp to add assembler insertions? Just want to know. 14:16:21 hitecnologys: how could that be library material? Lots of implementations have support for some sort of inline assembly, but it's obviously not portable. 14:16:29 not so obviously 14:16:38 ffi has been portablized 14:16:54 *Xach* looks forward to CLAP 14:17:08 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m83-190-143-133.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:08 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 14:17:19 Xach: given the great success that GNU Lightning is, I'm not holding my breath. 14:18:11 pkhuong: It's something like C++ __asm__? 14:18:11 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:18:11 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 14:18:19 hitecnologys:give type declarations, that should be enough. if not, how about loading a shared object? can be written in c or assembler ... 14:18:26 what's wrong with gnu lightning, besides that it's stagnated a bit? 14:18:42 it has* 14:19:06 hitecnologys: that's no library. They're non-standard directives that lots of compilers interpret differently (msvc VS gcc, are regular issues) 14:20:25 dekuked: it shows how useless the common feature set of the few remaining ISAs is. 14:20:51 hitecnologys: out of sheer interest: do you have a use case in mind? 14:21:38 *madnificent* has often been impressed by the code SBCL generates when given the right optimisations 14:22:24 madnigicent: Don't understand what does "do you have a use case in mind" means. D'= 14:22:40 hitecnologys: where would you want to use the inline assembly? 14:22:56 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-25-97.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:23:37 hitecnologys: and, when you go so low-level, why would you still be writing common lisp, instead of targetting a specific compiler... (it can make sense btw) 14:23:53 xyxu [~Adium@180.157.5.32] has joined #lisp 14:23:59 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 14:24:00 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:00 madnificent: Nowhere. Asked just for interest. 14:24:29 does anyone know a good *example* to learn parenscript from? so far I've found a few tutorials, and I know I could just read the library, but I'm dumb and kind of want some easier steps. 14:24:46 or at least somewhere to start modifying 14:24:57 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 14:25:25 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:25:34 dekuked: given the amount changes parenscript went through, the source would probably be my best guess. there used to be a pdf manual about it, perhaps that's up to date. 14:26:22 Also, is this good that I'm using :type in slots definitions or better to remove it? 14:26:33 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-19.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:27:37 madnificent: when did most of these breaking changes occur? should I simply ignore anything from 2+ years ago, or what? 14:28:24 dekuked: they are minor things, i'm just being grumpy. i think it throws warnings on the things you're not advised to do anymore. 14:28:42 ah, okay. thanks! 14:31:17 hitecnologys: Type declarations are a contract in your library's API. Other than that only insert them where you want to optimize. 14:31:23 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:47 hitecnologys: And just write the code. You'll learn when to use what soon :) 14:32:06 naryl: Okay, thnaks. 14:32:07 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:32:11 naryl: they're always about optimisations, in Common Lisp. 14:32:55 pkhuong: Sometimes they're also about giving better errors when a user does something stupid. 14:33:03 naryl: not in common lisp. 14:33:07 (From our POV) 14:33:25 pkhuong: Why? It seems to work for this purpose. 14:33:37 In CL too. 14:33:38 naryl: Type declarations in CL are promises on the programmer's part. The compiler is free to ignore them or assume they are always satisfied. 14:34:12 pkhuong: So SBCL's behaviour of signalling TYPE-ERRORs is not portable? 14:34:37 with high safety 14:34:41 SBCL attempts to convert most type declarations to assertions when safety > 0, but this isn't mandated by the standard, and actually fails to happen in some rare cases. 14:34:50 ok 14:35:33 pkhuong: i find it somewhat odd that that isn't mandated by the standard 14:36:14 use check-type. it is entirely portable. 14:36:35 and should result in even better errors. 14:37:32 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:44 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:39:53 nice 14:40:30 -!- antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:41:38 antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:22 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 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[~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:17 BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:25 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:38 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:46 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@164-177-155-66.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:19 well, this is the slowest day in memory. 19:04:54 *everybody* working, simultaneously, for five hours? 19:06:27 Nope 19:07:15 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:21 sort of 19:08:58 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128170023.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 19:08:59 making progress on boring work stuff, then hacking a little schemaverse.com + lisp on breaks in between 19:10:01 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:11:19 join #windows 19:13:39 Fade: *you* didn't start an interesting conversation! and now *we* don't have a scrollback to enjoy 19:13:39 no 19:14:07 Fade: i demand you write an AI algorithm to spur conversation on #lisp. like the troll post on #\{ 19:14:32 I have an artificial moron that generates language using markov chains 19:14:42 i'm sure I'd be set on fire if I dropped it in here. 19:15:32 Fade: hahaha 19:16:20 the output is _just_ relevant/good enough that you're sometimes tricked into reading it. 19:16:37 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 19:16:56 finally, someone to replace brucio 19:17:18 I'm not understanding why is failing. SBCL is complaining about the type of END. 19:17:18 pnq [~nick@ACA21C35.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:21 we're actually cleaning up the code a bit; the plan is to drop it onto github. 19:18:26 didi: in the "false" branch of the if, END is known to be NIL 19:18:26 didi: you can't detract from NIL 19:18:48 Hum... 19:19:29 Shouldn't fix it? 19:19:51 no, because in the false branch of the if, END is known to be NIL 19:20:08 please take some time to think about this a bit before pasting again 19:20:24 I did it all day, but OK. 19:20:28 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 19:20:51 this is so trivial 19:24:08 it would really help to know what are you really trying to do, because i can't seem to understand what it's supposed to do even if it were right 19:24:15 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@192-197-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:25:31 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.47.168] has joined #lisp 19:25:32 04:02 < Ralith> dnm: ping some more 19:25:34 Huh? 19:25:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:07 didi: maybe are you confusing CL with the likes of C where 0 would be false, though I suspect that code would still not make sense 19:27:38 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:39 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-83-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:51 DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:56 -!- nha [~prefect@f052233056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:29:58 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:48 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.202] has joined #lisp 19:33:09 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39:02 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:40:59 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@c90636ec.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:41:43 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@c90636ec.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:45 francogrex [~user@109.130.134.245] has joined #lisp 19:41:46 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-76-173.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:42:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-14-183.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:46:39 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:48:21 snearch [~snearch@f053006194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:32 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:38 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:48:43 snearch [~snearch@f053006194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:28 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:05 asvil [~asvil@178.121.217.32] has joined #lisp 19:50:29 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:59 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-76-173.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:10 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-7-79.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:51:22 muha [menchauser@88.200.167.185] has joined #lisp 19:52:57 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:54 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053006194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:56:43 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:06:18 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.64.170] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 20:10:01 heh finally did slime integration hack I wanted http://i.imgur.com/dh2wW.png 20:10:56 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-72-129.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:11:00 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-21-241.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:11:46 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-72-129.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:12:28 ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:33 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-21-241.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:12:59 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:13:01 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:29 maxm-: couldn't you write do it in qt? 20:14:13 s33 [~s33@114-25-205-57.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:10 -!- s33 [~s33@114-25-205-57.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:21 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:16:36 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:15 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:28 msimoni [~m@212-183-108-93.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:18:19 Does anyone have an example of usage of the spatial-tree library? 20:18:32 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.20.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:08 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.18.140] has joined #lisp 20:19:18 well there's SP-GiST in PostgreSQL :) 20:19:30 sepi: why do you need it? 20:20:37 it has a very straightforward API 20:21:06 stassats`: I'd like to store 2d vectors in it in order to make nearest neighbor searches fast 20:21:33 what data structure you want to use? 20:21:53 I use l-math vectors 20:23:25 stassats`: what do you mean "write it in qt"? 20:23:33 sepi: is that one of the trees in spatial-tree? 20:23:38 maxm-: i don't know 20:23:58 maxm-: whatever you have done, can it be done in qt 20:24:24 stassats`: why the hell I would want to do logging in qt? 20:24:42 gui part is not the only module of entire thing, there are backend parts too 20:25:15 maxm-: well, you did it with slime 20:25:19 so, is that logging output for SLIME? 20:25:26 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 20:25:28 stassats`: ah, you mean what tree I want to use? Well I'm not aware of the differences they exibit yet 20:25:32 Yeah, got it. Bad `if'. 20:25:38 yes, its my repl 20:25:52 stassats`: l-math vectors would just be the elements that I want to store 20:26:03 *maxm-* now understands the confusion, should not have cut-off the bottom of the window with LTR> prompt 20:26:15 maxm-: my question stands 20:26:55 wouldn't make sense to do with Qt, IMHO 20:27:18 though it would have been more interesting if you included a way for SLIME to catch logging output to separate buffer 20:27:19 stassats`: well I don't quite understand your question, if you would elaborate on what you mean, write the log viewer in qt, with custom qt appender? 20:27:26 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:27:49 maxm-: whatever makes more sense for what you showed us 20:28:29 nha [~prefect@g225165002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:28:54 well, its dynamic configuration, basically just enabling debug for entire thing gets you flooded, this way you can quickly click on offenders you don't want to see, and turn them off 20:30:08 stassats`: I'm missing how to specify the connection between the tree and my vertex datastructure 20:30:18 araujo [~araujo@190.38.84.85] has joined #lisp 20:30:18 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.84.85] has quit [Changing host] 20:30:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:30:26 Hum, maybe I should use &key instead of &optional. 20:30:35 meh whatever, I did it for myself, works for me...I'll release it as a separate system log4cl-fancy-setup so ppl can use it 20:30:36 And how that fits in with rectangles. I might miss how these trees are used normally 20:31:01 CommonQT is great. 20:31:30 didi: so, can you annotate the paste with what you eventually got? 20:31:52 stassats`: Hum. I don't know if that's possible. I'll paste the new version. 20:32:12 you can't annotate? why is that? 20:32:21 did you make the paste perishable? 20:32:50 p_l: not sure its possible to write real slime appender, without getting into slime protocol and having to patch slime, and I won't be able to get any patches in past stassats. This current hack does not require slime modification, other then (defadvicing) slime-repl-output, to fontify stuff and put properties on 20:33:14 or is paste.kde.org too simpleminded to have annotations? 20:34:04 right, you won't be able to get any patches with such attitude 20:34:07 for the separate buffer I guess can just a log file, and emacs tail -f thing (forgot its name).. This actually gets me an idea.. I can reuse this whole machinery to make it slime-independent too, to work in any buffer tailing the log file 20:37:26 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:04 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 20:38:54 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@111.134.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:39:28 stassats`: I don't seem to find a annotations mechanism. 20:39:30 maxm-: iirc you can eval elisp code in SLIME from lisp 20:39:36 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.47.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:39:37 Anyway, here 20:39:47 didi: that's what you get for not use paste.lisp.org 20:39:55 stassats`: could you give me a small hint on usage of spatial trees? 20:39:56 stassats`: :^P 20:40:10 sepi: not really 20:40:16 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@111.134.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:40:20 sepi: try reading on R trees, i guess 20:43:13 ok, thanks I'll do that 20:43:16 bye 20:43:24 didi: right, &key would be better 20:43:36 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 20:45:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-145.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:37 didi: and http://paste.lisp.org/display/129457 20:46:13 stassats`: Yeah, much cleaner. 20:46:20 stassats`: Thank you. 20:46:44 and i changed below to to, because the start is inclusive, no reason for end to be exclusive 20:47:03 stassats`: I prefer end being exclusive, though. 20:47:16 then you better stop! 20:47:23 Never! 20:47:42 another way (loop for i from (if end end/start 0) to (or end end/start) by step collect i) 20:48:33 didi: if you indeed do, you could just use alexandria:iota 20:49:04 although its docstring tells lies 20:49:16 Hehe. 20:49:57 so, it's a tad different 20:51:21 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@111.134.223.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:51:32 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-83-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 20:52:04 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@37.79.40.83] has joined #lisp 20:54:08 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.220.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:03 nikodemus [~nikodemus@176-93-191-189.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:57:37 ok, sent a patch 21:00:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 21:00:58 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:01:17 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:19 -!- zanoni [quassel@nat/indt/x-kpqaieppqhsfxnan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:48 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:31 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:48 -!- gridaphobe [~gridaphob@cpe-74-68-151-24.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:33 -!- 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[~saschakb@p4FEA0277.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:23:37 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:23:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.134.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:10 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2b8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:24 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:42:18 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:45 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:00 -!- BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:35 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:44 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:27 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:37 lobo_d_b [~lobo_d_b@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 21:48:23 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:31 scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has joined #lisp 21:48:32 how can i use slime inspector to search for any gfs specialized on a specific type? 21:49:36 there might be an interactive function called slime-who-specializes 21:49:50 otherwise, sb-introspect might provide a who-specializes 21:50:50 perfect, thanks 21:50:54 C-c C-w C-a 21:51:03 -!- cyb3r3li0g [~eguzman@c-69-254-128-192.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:51:10 "a"... 21:52:03 -!- kilon [~kilon@195.74.237.167.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:51 -!- Guest99086 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