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01:14:39 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@201.53.12.75] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:16:06 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@037096009212.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:27 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@037096009212.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 01:18:08 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:49 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@037096009212.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:06 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@037096009212.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 01:21:08 statonjr [~statonjr@cpe-098-024-165-246.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:35 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:16 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.190] has joined #lisp 01:34:38 leku [~mjf@shell.dhp.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:44 woahh 01:35:17 got a question..how do i define a procedure that takes 3 arguments and returns the 2 larger numbers? 01:35:35 Exercise 1.3. Define a procedure that takes three numbers as arguments and returns the sum of the squares of the two larger numbers. 01:35:50 i've defined my 'square' and 'sumofsquare' functions already 01:39:14 leku: by using your brains, and by programming. 01:39:31 find the two larger numbers, take sumofsquares 01:39:37 simple! 01:41:28 billitch [~billitch@70-36-196-160.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:08 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:12 haha 01:44:17 i dont know how to express that in lisp 01:44:39 Just like in English, only you put parentheses aroud sentences. 01:44:51 (gimme the big numberzzz) 01:45:00 leku: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/a827235ce7466a92 01:45:17 mrky [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 01:45:22 thanks 01:45:44 leku: otherwise you may want to read: Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/dst/www/LispBook/index.html 01:46:01 i'm learning lisp 01:46:04 this is chapter 1 basically 01:46:18 i kno how to do conditionals 01:46:23 well kinda 01:46:44 recursive programming is a lot to swallow when you learned everything wrong to begin with 01:46:46 leku: notice that the two larger numbers are not the smallest one. 01:46:54 (that's the "using your brains" part). 01:47:20 flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@201.53.12.75] has joined #lisp 01:47:57 (cond ((> a b) b) (> b c) b) (else c)) 01:48:37 No. 01:48:50 that will evaluate (> a b) and just reutrn b right away right withotu evaluating the rest ? 01:49:01 That is, if what you want is the two largest numbers. 01:49:22 clhs cond 01:49:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_cond.htm 01:49:54 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:50:17 Your form makes reference to two undefined (assumedly) variables: > and else. 01:53:07 hrm maybe i need and 01:53:11 cyb3r3li0g [~eguzman@c-69-254-128-192.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54:22 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: http://www.cyphase.com/] 01:55:22 leku: Just remember that there are only two interesting numbers; zero and lots. 01:55:23 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:55:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:55:44 -!- billitch [~billitch@70-36-196-160.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:56:14 billitch [~billitch@70-36-196-160.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:36 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:59 leku: Recursion generally involves taking a unit from lots and processing it, and then processing the remainder, and stopping when nothing is left. 01:57:11 The rest is probably better understood as backtracking. 01:57:38 i kind of get it 01:57:49 i just probably need to take a break and come back to it 01:58:32 using emacs and scheme mode would probabyl help too 01:58:54 this stupid ucb stk thing never lets me erase my mistakes 01:59:37 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:03:54 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 02:03:58 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:05:34 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:08 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:07:23 -!- TimKack [~tkack@c-2ec22154-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:07:24 -!- Ralith_ [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:08:24 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:08:43 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 02:08:43 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 02:08:51 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:33 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:11:37 leku: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129370 and https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Apaste.lisp.org+sum+square+two+largest&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a 02:17:22 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 02:20:16 -!- flavioribeiro [~flaviorib@201.53.12.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:23 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 02:23:48 -!- paul0 [~paul0@201.47.45.101.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 02:25:48 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:28:58 gko [~gko@220.228.255.204] has joined #lisp 02:32:44 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-qgydzadlqubuwbme] has joined #lisp 02:33:39 ace4016 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[~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:30:13 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 03:31:03 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-20.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:32:25 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:56 -!- 16WAAJLRQ [~mjonsson@38.109.95.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:56 -!- 17WAADGJR [~mjonsson@38.109.95.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:16 -!- leku [~mjf@shell.dhp.com] has left #lisp 03:37:11 leku [~mjf@shell.dhp.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:16 pjb: thanks dude 03:37:23 i came up to the same conclusion 03:37:41 well kinda i am not familiar with the defun special word 03:38:17 isn't there a better way to do this tho 03:38:20 using recursion? 03:38:26 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:08 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.149.50] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 03:39:21 stlifey 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pirateking-_-] 05:26:19 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-216-175.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:30:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:33:20 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-57-180.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:35:20 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:38:15 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-tjfyqyfzezwliies] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:43:34 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:43 -!- lilin [~lilin@116.19.167.215] has left #lisp 05:43:55 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:14 does anyone here have a copy of the ObjectLisp User Manual (which used to be on rainer joswig's lispm.dyndns.org, which i can't read right now :( )? 05:52:47 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:49 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:42 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ocepiyszcyyqneja] has joined #lisp 06:01:30 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-57-180.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:03:10 sykopomp: i just found Sheeple! it looks very interesting, thanks for making it! 06:03:53 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:06:36 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:42 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:27 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.197.45] has joined #lisp 06:10:53 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:10:53 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:10:53 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:14:53 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:16:26 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:18:03 -!- jaxtr [~vazakl@22.50.5646.static.theplanet.com] has quit [] 06:18:18 jaxtr [~vazakl@22.50.5646.static.theplanet.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:37 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:25:01 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.155.57.221] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:27:42 ecraven: http://81.202.16.46:20080/~pjb/web/lispm.dyndns.org/documentation/ObjectLisp-Manual.pdf 06:27:51 pjb: thank you! 06:28:35 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:29:41 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 06:31:22 comatos__ [~comatose_@CPE0023bee41a54-CM0023bee41a51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 06:31:49 -!- comatose_kid [~comatose_@CPE0023bee41a54-CM0023bee41a51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:34:48 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.197.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:40:37 Who was the guy who was doing the articles on designing protocols/generic functions a few years ago? fare? 06:42:17 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:43:17 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:46:18 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:46:57 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 06:47:38 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:39 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:07 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 06:49:54 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 06:50:00 morning 06:50:14 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 06:51:41 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:53:40 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:03:05 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:03:41 redscare [~ydl@BAKER-ONE-EIGHTY-ONE.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:04:01 does lisp support parallelism / multiple CPUs? 07:04:43 Some lisps do. 07:04:52 Zhivago: SBCL? 07:05:06 It has threading support. 07:05:21 Personally, I think that threads are a bad idea, bit ymmv. 07:05:32 Zhivago: so who does it better? 07:06:00 clisp? i need quick parallel computing so i thought sbcl was the way to go for its speed 07:06:05 scientific stuff 07:08:44 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 07:09:20 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 07:09:36 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:10:02 What problem are you trying to solve? 07:10:39 redscare: Zhivago wrote that he thinks threads in general are a bad idea. I've been using SBCL with threads to accelerate FP and memory-bound computations for a couple years now; never had a problem (except on OS X, but that should be fixed now) 07:11:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:11:26 The problems are due to shared memory; a lack of scaling and contention issues. 07:11:43 Zhivago: simulating solutions to a differential equation and some random particle motion. it's a project with very loose deadlines so I decided I'd implement it in lisp so that I could properly learn the language. 07:11:58 pkhuong: no windows though right? :( 07:12:12 So, if your problem is big enough to benefit from threads, you need to wonder if it's small enough not to benefit from distribution. 07:12:19 redscare: the friendly russian fork has threads on windows. 07:13:37 Zhivago: i have access to a pretty powerful 16-core machine that should be more than enough, i'd like to be able to implement it on that. is there a lisp that offers a threadless solution to this? 07:13:46 pkhuong: thanks, i'll look into it 07:14:52 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 07:18:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:18:51 Zhivago? 07:19:06 sorry i'm just very interested in possible alternatives 07:19:20 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:30 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 07:20:34 redscare: message passing and processes, potentially hidden under a distributed shared memory/objects interface. 07:20:38 Well, it depends on how you expect to be benefiting from parallelism here. 07:20:48 You've been pretty vague about that. 07:21:39 But, in practice, making something go 10x faster is already pretty useful. It's not like we can all easily get time on kilo-core clusters. 07:21:47 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:21:54 Oh, sure you can. :) 07:22:38 The more serious question is; do you want to pay the cost of handling all of that ad hoc contention? 07:22:40 Zhivago: EC2? I'll stick to shared memory. 07:23:11 i'm simulating a probabilistic process, so it would be nice to split multiple iterations of the simulation across CPUs. I'm also interested in possibly calculating trajectories of particles separately until they start interacting, at which point i'd start sharing information. 07:23:42 doing this via C/C++ threads, while not straight-forward, i know can be done. if lisp can make this easier i'll never write in anything else ever :) 07:23:50 Sounds like terrible candidate for parallelism. 07:23:50 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:24:29 You might consider partitioning the problem spatially, perhaps. 07:25:22 Zhivago: spatial separation is the way I decide whether particles are interacting 07:25:41 good morning 07:26:43 Then individual particles are irrelevant. 07:27:10 Think in terms of local regions of space and then think about how much you can reduce cross-talk by having region-to-region interaction. 07:27:38 The benefit of parallelism will be proportional to the amount of cross-talk you can eliminate. 07:28:02 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:28:50 Who said redscare was asking about threads? 07:28:53 Zhivago: i see. i definitely need to think more about optimal program structure. but i really want to make use of those 16 cores :) so is there a particular lisp you would suggest for this? 07:29:18 redscare: almost all CL on POSIX systems have a way to fork(2). 07:29:51 redscare: ccl has well-tested and sane threading support 07:30:03 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:30:08 pjb: well that's "just" threading, isn't it? it seems Zhivago is suggesting there exist better, safer solutions 07:30:38 redscare: no, Zhivago wants you do develop one. 07:30:40 redscare: It's more a question of "do you want to depend on shared memory?" 07:31:01 redscare: you could use a higher-level parallelization library (lparallel has been talked about a lot recently), but you'll still have to structure your program so that it actually makes good use of the 16 cores 07:31:03 (loop repeat 16 do #+clisp (linux:|fork|)) 07:31:41 pjb: with fork, any communication between tasks becomes a bit of a chore. 07:31:43 redscare: otherwise, there are old parallel lisp systems. Have a look at Butterfly CL (and Scheme). 07:31:50 redscare: If the answer is "no", then there are a bunch of message queue, or pub-sub, or whatever systems around. 07:31:56 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:32:07 And those can take advantage of shared memory without relying on it. 07:32:17 H4ns: you have to come to an agreement with Zhivago: either you want communications between tasks, or you don't want them! ("contentions"). 07:32:50 ok i see. thank you very much. i think i'll stick to sbcl: i'll just run on linux, it seems like the consensus on the internet is that sbcl is the fastest on that platform. i have some thinking to do :) 07:33:26 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:34 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:36:10 -!- redscare [~ydl@BAKER-ONE-EIGHTY-ONE.MIT.EDU] has left #lisp 07:39:15 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:26 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:41:38 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:46:04 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:46:13 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:47:40 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:48:59 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-16-252.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:40 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:53:16 stlifey_ [~stlifey@116.19.143.214] has joined #lisp 07:54:07 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:20 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:54:27 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #lisp 07:54:51 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 07:55:04 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.203.36] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:56:18 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.149.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:58:00 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:59:27 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:16 -!- alanpearce_ [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:02:12 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:04:34 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-53.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:07:26 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:37 BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:51 BrianRice` [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:52 -!- BrianRice [~water@75-172-8-148.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:55 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 08:11:43 nipra [~nipra@125.20.84.54] has joined #lisp 08:13:17 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 08:30:29 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-11-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:34:32 jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh2050.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 08:35:43 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 08:36:20 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:36:55 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:37:47 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:53 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:41:20 Pupeno_W [~pupeno@87-194-65-126.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:41:33 Hello. 08:45:59 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:38 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:52:27 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-44.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:53:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-194.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:56:14 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:39 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:00:17 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:02:55 Xach: hi. Question about gtk-cffi ql package. There is gtk-cffi (gtk3 cffi binding) asdf system in the end of file: http://common-lisp.net/viewvc/gtk-cffi/gtk-cffi/gtk/gtk-cffi.asd?revision=1.19&view=markup. But (ql:quickload :gtk-cffi) fails. 09:04:33 asvil: quicklisp doesn't have gtk-ffi 09:04:50 oh, disregard that 09:04:57 wrong search keyword 09:05:30 asvil: it would've been helpful if you provided the error message it produces when it fails 09:05:58 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has joined #lisp 09:06:07 System "gtk-cffi" not found 09:06:07 [Condition of type QUICKLISP-CLIENT::SYSTEM-NOT-FOUND] 09:06:38 May be it is needed to reload ql cache, if it exists? 09:08:08 hm, in the releases.html its systems are listed as "g-lib-cffi, g-object-cffi, gio-cffi, gtk-cffi-utils" 09:08:14 no gtk-cffi 09:08:44 seems like something is amiss in quicklisp, but Xach is not here right now 09:09:00 -!- harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:09:08 ok. I will write bug report. 09:12:08 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:12:48 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-obqocrulthqsqdnk] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh2050.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:42 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:55 teggi [~teggi@123.21.175.206] has joined #lisp 09:17:53 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #lisp 09:23:47 I'm doing (incf (gethash username counts 0) count) with counts being an hash-table, and I'm protecting that operation with a bordeaux threads lock 09:24:08 I've been partitionning the lock so that I'm actually using 1024 of them, for better concurrency behavior 09:24:43 is that correct? I mean, can I have several concurrent incf operations in the hash table if I guarantee they are happening in differents entries of it? 09:25:18 no 09:26:33 benny` [~benny@i577A1DE0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:48 -!- benny` is now known as benny 09:26:52 dim: how do you partition the lock? 09:27:21 (bt:with-lock-held 09:27:21 ((aref locks (mod (sxhash username) +lock-partitions+))) 09:27:21 (incf (gethash username counts 0) count)))) 09:27:21 if the username isn't present in the ht, it would be added, which may cause rehashing 09:27:25 that's the actual code 09:27:49 stassats: I know I have less than 33 000 000 users and I've been created that big an hash table to begin with 09:28:05 I don't *expect* re-hashing to happen 09:28:31 then it's perfectly fine 09:28:58 at least it ran ok in my tests so far :) 09:29:00 dim: sxhash isn't exactly what's used for hashtables 09:29:23 stassats: I realise my hashing for the locks is not the same as the hashing for the values, but I'm ok with that 09:29:29 dim: not going to work. You need to partition into that many hash tables aswell. 09:29:32 I just want more than 1 lock 09:29:57 dim: do you know your users in advance? in what range are the counts that you expect, per user? 09:29:59 pkhuong: oh. why is that? 09:30:19 let's wait pkhuong's answer :) 09:30:41 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 09:30:44 dim: you're still concurrently accessing the same table. While your thing protects against concurrent writes to pre-existing entries, it doesn't protect against concurrent insertions. 09:30:56 H4ns: users are in 256 different databases hosted by 16 different hosts, I could get the information yes, comments should get anywhere between 0 and 10000, I'd guess 09:31:14 pkhuong: oh, dim said there was no rehashing which infers no insertion i think 09:31:19 dim: it's probably simpler to assign one hash table to each thread and merge them pair-wise. 09:31:21 pkhuong: and why concurrent insertions are a problem, as I've made it so that we're not re-hashing? 09:31:22 dim: are the counts mostly zeroes? 09:31:51 huangjs: he said no rehashing because he specified :size to make-hash-table, but not about insertion 09:31:58 I wouldn't think so, mostly low yes, mostly 0 no 09:32:19 stassats: ah yes 09:32:24 dim: your goal is to read the counts from the 256 databases quickly, and repeatedly? 09:32:28 insertion, yes, re-hashing, no (I don't expect any) 09:32:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-194.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:32:33 dim: because there's still no guarantee that concurrent insertion/read are safe. They definitely aren't in SBCL. Not every hash table is first-come first-served open-addressed. 09:32:33 dim: collision resolution may use open addressing 09:32:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-194.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:33:09 concurrent insertions will get in line behind the same lock 09:33:12 and even FCFS open addressing doesn't necessarily guarantee that concurrent insertions are safe. 09:33:14 isn't that enough? 09:33:20 dim: only if they're inserting the same entry. 09:33:27 pkhuong: that's what I meant, yes 09:33:34 no, that's not enough. 09:33:38 pkhuong: so concurrent insertions of different keys are not safe 09:33:50 or even concurrent insertion and lookups. 09:33:52 ok, that calls for 1024 hash tables then 09:34:16 why 1024? why don't you collect the data separately, then merge? 09:34:18 once filled, I need to be able to process all the data in one sweep as if those where in a single vector, anyway 09:34:45 dim: 1024? Why can't each thread have its own private table? 09:34:52 maybe using a single vector with a cons cell (username . count) would be better after all, but well 09:34:59 stassats: is no rehashing guaranteed if size is not exceeded the rehash-threshold? 09:35:20 huangjs: pkhuong: both right about the one hash table per thread 09:35:26 dim: why not have a hashtable and a vector, hashtable would point to indexes in the vector 09:36:12 I wanted for the merge to happen on-the-go but the concurrency here makes it not-practical, so well, I might as well have a different one per thread, right 09:36:18 thread-private hash table. Both safety and performance in one stroke. 09:36:28 huangjs: usually, yes 09:36:59 pkhuong: because of locality? 09:37:03 pkhuong: I want to be merging them in memory though (I could let PostgreSQL handle that later, but that's a CL exercise) 09:37:06 i mean better locality? 09:37:14 I need to go, more later, thx already :) 09:37:18 huangjs: that, but mostly less cache coherency traffic. 09:37:34 ah, yes 09:37:36 huangjs: a moving garbage collector would have to rehash a ht if something in it moved 09:37:50 dim: sure. I don't see the issue. lg n steps of pair-wise merging. 09:38:06 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:38:25 stassats: not if you hash on string content, and GC is atomic wrt the mutator anyway. 09:38:39 stassats: yeah, i think only rehashing is guaranteed but not the reverse 09:38:45 pkhuong: i was talking in general 09:38:59 ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:39:00 ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:42:56 isn't counting key -> num-occurances is textbook case for map-reduce? 09:43:09 lparallel has map-reduce built in from what I remember 09:45:31 in fact look at pcount, pfind, pevery etc 09:45:40 those are parallel versions of the standard seq functions 09:45:41 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:58 or pmap-reduce 09:46:44 fahadyy [~fahadkhan@115.167.41.234] has joined #lisp 09:46:56 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:47:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:48:56 -!- |SLB| [~slabua@host33-161-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 09:50:34 -!- fahadyy [~fahadkhan@115.167.41.234] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:54:07 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iefwxjsangoyfhmz] has joined #lisp 09:54:38 pkhuong: I could also use as many hash-tables as locks with the same partitioning with sxhash, so that I don't have to merge anything but just loop through hash table entries 09:54:44 that was your first idea 09:54:59 I would be trading concurrency inserts/updates against merging later 09:55:07 I think I prefer it this way 09:56:21 maxm-: I don't know if I can easily use lparallel given how the data is split, the only reason why I'm multi-threading here is that I have 256 sources of data that I want to be accesing 16 in parallel because they are hosted in 16 different servers 09:56:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:56:47 and I already have that part figured out, it took me longer to parse an INI file than to arrange for that part :) 09:57:42 dim: or you could just try and see if a single hash table + lock is good enough. 09:58:00 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ocepiyszcyyqneja] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:58:12 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:58:57 hmm (pmapcan #'retrive-data-from-server (get-list-of-servers)) will retreive data with 16 workers in parallel, and merge it safely 10:00:15 I assume data from server will be in form of a list, ((username . cnt) (username2 . cnt)) 10:01:06 pkhuong: for 16 concurrent threads, having to lock at each new data, I don't think it will go ok, because typically the 16 threads are doing an SQL query for minutes at a time then pushing 128000 entries in the hash, and they will be looping through those 128000 lines concurrently 10:01:17 -!- ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:01:18 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:01:18 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bucvytnoqhjbqscr] has joined #lisp 10:01:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@p9225-ipngn100206daianjibetu.nara.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:01:29 maxm-: yeah I'm getting an alist 10:01:32 thing is you don't have to worry about locking if you use lparallel, coz I assume author took care o that 10:01:36 reading on pmapcan then 10:02:09 I'm using lparallel to distribute the work already, and lparallel.queue in some cases, as of now to have a dedicated monitoring thread 10:02:24 dim: then maybe the lock should be acquired around the loop over lines. 10:02:38 *maxm-* is reading the docs, and it seems using the p* functions is a way to go...http://lparallel.org/api/cognates/ 10:02:43 pkhuong: then I don't need parallelism at all :) 10:03:44 dim: of course, you get concurrency in the slow part, waiting for the results of an SQL query. 10:04:05 pkhuong: yeah, hence the smiley 10:04:10 I'm going to see about pmapcan 10:04:19 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iefwxjsangoyfhmz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:04:47 dim: that'll do you good only if you have enough memory to store all the intermediate results from all servers at the same time. 10:05:24 H4ns: yes, remember when I asked for advice on the in memory size of a 33 000 000 entries hash table of (text . int)? :) 10:05:41 that's guesstimated at 2GB 10:05:51 dim: no. i don't remember that, and i also do not know if the users are partitioned per database 10:06:05 yes they are 10:06:31 but the comments are not because of an error in the past 10:07:07 harish [~harish@155.69.194.230] has joined #lisp 10:07:19 dim: then the best strategy is to collect separately, then merge. i'd merge the hash tables, though, rather then serialize them to alists, but that might not matter too much. the bulk of time will be spent waiting for the db servers anyway 10:07:31 if you're doing this for performance, acquiring a lock only to increment a single value is silly. Even without contention and a fast spinlock-style path, you'll be spending maybe 25-50% of the time in locking operations. 10:07:44 H4ns: pmapcan could be just the implementation of that 10:07:54 H4ns: or just serialize access to a single hash table. 10:08:16 pkhuong: chunk wise. that might work, too. 10:08:35 I'm looking at pmapcan then I'm back to a single lock aquired per result loop, ok 10:09:10 in fact I took the lock management as an excuse to teach myself some defclass and defmethod :) 10:09:17 back to the real problem though 10:09:50 dim: you'd get better advice if you stated what the problem is, too :) 10:10:03 hmm seems lparallel missing pmerge 10:11:11 otherwise everything is there to implement classic map-reduce set of elem->count with duplicates into unique elem->sum(counts) thing 10:11:20 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 10:13:08 H4ns: I woulnd't have as much fun then :) 10:13:48 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:15:46 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lvgbbtjbjaojwure] has joined #lisp 10:16:17 dim: can't quite share the ":)" 10:18:15 abbe [lostcase@2a01:4f8:131:13c1:abbe:abbe:abbe:abbe] has joined #lisp 10:18:56 arbn [4817e03b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.59] has joined #lisp 10:19:38 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bucvytnoqhjbqscr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:19:39 -!- arbn [4817e03b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.59] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:20:27 ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ncitknknalqdihyt] has joined #lisp 10:24:42 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lvgbbtjbjaojwure] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:27:15 -!- ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ncitknknalqdihyt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:56 ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wwslqyodfuukxipr] has joined #lisp 10:32:37 snearch [~snearch@f053010082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:24 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053010082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:03 meaning not sharing the fun? 10:36:17 I'm coming from the fact that #lisp isn't a consultancy gig 10:36:22 maybe I should change my mind 10:37:24 anyway been thinking that the pmap would be likely to consume too much memory (plenty for alist entries to then reduce... using a hash table I guess), so I will try the single-lock approach by pkhuong 10:38:49 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 10:38:54 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 10:39:15 truman33 [~Miranda@knowingly-handling.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:40:25 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-194.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:42:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-194.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:42:36 -!- ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wwslqyodfuukxipr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:45 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-yzjfysaqzrbjsjoh] has joined #lisp 10:42:46 manahino [~manahino@softbank126108006128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:52 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:51:04 TimKack [~user@c-2ec2ae41-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 10:52:17 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:29 hlavaty [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:52 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 10:56:36 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-yzjfysaqzrbjsjoh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:03 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rvknbgrhkrikwptq] has joined #lisp 10:59:49 tak` [~user@KHP059129075208.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:01:42 ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 11:01:44 ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 11:03:51 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 11:07:05 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA10A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:07:10 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has joined #lisp 11:09:32 peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:02 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:11:42 -!- ur5us_ [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:11:42 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@210.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:14:13 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:14:35 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:18:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:18:35 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:45 shifty [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:20:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:06 dim: if #lisp was a consultancy gig, incomplete requirements would be no issue. as it is not, i'd recommend asking precise questions and giving useful environment info to enhance the experience. 11:21:24 H4ns: ok so we're on the same line, cool 11:21:35 H4ns: I actually got useful answers to my questions here 11:21:42 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host75-208-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:21:49 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 11:21:53 H4ns: see, I'm not "just" trying to solve my immediate problem, I want to learn as much as I can along the way 11:21:55 nefo [~nefo@58.34.162.100] has joined #lisp 11:21:56 -!- nefo [~nefo@58.34.162.100] has quit [Changing host] 11:21:56 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:22:08 it really is a CL exposure exercise to me 11:22:26 so if I have to redo things when I give more context/env, I'm cool with that, really 11:22:36 I hope you are too :) 11:24:44 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:24:55 (cond ((eq X 'foo) ...) ((eq X 'bar) ...)) is better written case, right? 11:25:26 what do you think? 11:25:59 I just re-read the docs, I think yes absolutely 11:26:00 mikaelj [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:26:08 good 11:26:12 I used cond because that's all I have in elisp 11:26:26 not true 11:26:43 Posterdati [~tapioca@host75-208-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:27:48 oh. and I do (require 'cl). shame. 11:27:54 Posterdati_ [~tapioca@host75-208-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:28:12 -!- Posterdati_ [~tapioca@host75-208-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:18 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host75-208-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:33 Posterdati [~tapioca@host75-208-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:30:52 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:33:20 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[~chatzilla@ip-64-134-239-52.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:33 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:55:19 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-166-69-218.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:28 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.164] has joined #lisp 15:57:18 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@29.Red-88-11-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:58:01 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ozpmttvvselddndt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:10 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-187-216-209.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:04:27 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:04:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:06:21 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:08:06 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053010082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:12:37 jeje 16:12:59 the psychology of readline! 16:13:01 lol 16:17:10 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.203.36] has joined #lisp 16:18:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:18:27 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:22:37 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:06 cheier [~chris@64.129.86.8] has joined #lisp 16:23:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:13 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 16:24:15 I can't explain why I tend to find it nice to run code with SBCL once I developped and tested it with CCL 16:24:29 to a non lisper it would most certainly look like a drawback 16:25:13 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:58 Fade [~fade@66.207.216.43] has joined #lisp 16:26:19 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 16:26:29 The real question is, why aren't you improving SBCL so that you find it nice to use it to develop and test your code in the first place? 16:26:32 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:03 nyef: a. it could be already there I'd have to try and b. not there yet 16:28:37 I just had a hard time settling on a CL implementation and CCL is my first choice here, for now 16:29:07 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:44 dim: I felt the same way, and very similar environment in either implementation by just launching slime with the alternate prefix arg is also cool 16:29:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:11 dim: that's funny, I'm the same way except SBCL is my first choice right now 16:30:43 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 16:30:50 -!- xristos is now known as Guest52273 16:31:00 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:19 rme [~rme@50.43.135.251] has joined #lisp 16:31:28 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 16:31:34 dim: it makes sense, CCL is much faster at compiling, and SBCL is faster at running. 16:31:42 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:15 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:15 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 16:35:36 -!- e-gone is now known as ebobby 16:35:48 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 16:35:55 and CCL supports native threads on windows without being experimental, and I still think about this project I want to redo in CL which I want to be running in windows 16:36:12 self-contained shipable executable + native threads would be a constraint here 16:36:30 anyway, by when I'm ready SBCL will be a serious candidate it seems :) 16:36:45 comute time, see ya 16:36:56 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.163.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:39 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:38:10 <[6502]> hello... how to speed up this ? --> http://paste.lisp.org/display/129379 16:38:35 Profiling and type declarations. 16:38:37 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:38:43 Good luck. (-: 16:38:58 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-229.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:39:31 <[6502]> nyef: i tried adding type declaration (declare (complex z ...)) but still speed sucked quite a bit 16:39:40 Man, I need some magic to prevent me from hacking on things in ~/quicklisp 16:39:48 ikki [~ikki@187.193.157.109] has joined #lisp 16:39:57 <[6502]> nyef: I got some speed improvement by using explicit components as double-float, but still not really impressive 16:41:40 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:45 iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has joined #lisp 16:41:46 <[6502]> nyef: the end speed was still about 8x slower than pypy (a tracing jit for python) 16:41:57 [6502]: Did you profile at all? 16:42:04 <[6502]> sellout: no :-/ 16:42:15 Not that there's much there  16:42:34 [6502]: Which impl? 16:42:44 <[6502]> sellout: i can ensure you the all the time of computation is spent in that loop if this is what you're asking about 16:42:57 <[6502]> sellout: SBCL on ubuntu/64 16:43:08 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8105D9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:20 How expensive is the call to ABS, and can you profitably replace it with a double-ended bounds check? 16:44:25 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:44:38 <[6502]> nyef: it's a complex number, but indeed something can be factored out (i.e. the check could be about squared abs > 4 instead, to save the square root). Note that this is the code (i.e. without factorization) that i tried with pypy 16:44:53 Oh, right, forgot about it being a complex. 16:45:13 <[6502]> nyef: also real**2 and imag** could be saved as their difference is used in next value of the real part 16:45:30 Anyway, I have to get back to work. 16:45:36 -!- iocor [~textual@unaffiliated/iocor] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:15 <[6502]> nyef: using explicit x y with double-float got a bit faster 30%, and this indeed puzzles me a bit (why handcoding real and imaginary parts should be faster than builtin complex math?) 16:46:28 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:46:28 [6502]: Did you try declaring speed/safety/etc? 16:46:30 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 16:46:48 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:55 I'd be interested to see the equivalent pyp 16:47:01 "pypy", indeed 16:47:08 <[6502]> sellout: that was first thing I did. (safety 0) (speed 3) but changed little 16:47:09 [6502]: there's more than one kind of complex 16:47:24 if you don't tell it which kind, there has to be dispatch 16:47:36 -!- Guest52273 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:13 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 16:49:38 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 16:52:07 <[6502]> l8r 16:52:10 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:52:11 mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has joined #lisp 16:52:19 abs(z) > 4? 16:54:34 anyway, specialized version up, going about 15 times faster by my measurement 16:57:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:23 -!- test_ [863a2937@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.58.41.55] has left #lisp 16:58:36 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.231.196] has joined #lisp 16:59:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:02:28 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:02:35 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:03:11 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.167.230] has joined #lisp 17:03:37 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:13 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 17:05:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:13:17 why do i get warnings about heap-size extension when i invoke ecl with --heap-size 2048000 17:13:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:14:09 and why the does not one put in if that is megs or bytes....or kilo..... 17:15:19 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-131-120-189.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:17:15 -!- zbigniew_ is now known as zbigniew 17:17:38 -!- lboat [~lboat@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:18:42 Icke [b200d3a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.0.211.168] has joined #lisp 17:22:07 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:35 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:29 antgreen [~user@out-on-208.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:43 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 17:23:54 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.203.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-194.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:24:35 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 17:24:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:27:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-194.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:27:41 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.203.36] has joined #lisp 17:28:12 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@29.Red-88-11-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:18 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.196] has joined #lisp 17:30:01 ledai [~lda@184.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:11 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:11 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA10A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:54 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev] 17:35:37 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.93] has joined #lisp 17:35:59 ahhh, graylex is gpl3 and cl-ppcre appears to still lack stream support :/ 17:39:07 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:21 how will you do backtracking on streams? 17:41:53 unread-char 17:42:03 sykopomp: only once 17:42:16 :( 17:42:34 Or use com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.peek-stream:peek-stream 17:43:03 you can stack all read characters, but how would that be different than just reading a string an than parsing it 17:43:07 it's a wrapper over streams that allows several ungetchar calls. 17:43:13 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 17:43:50 -!- xristos is now known as Guest80366 17:44:35 pjb: what made you chose such a long qualifier, very Java 17:44:57 Yes, java. 17:45:02 kanru` [~user@199.195.142.182] has joined #lisp 17:45:05 -!- ledai [~lda@184.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:26 But you just copy and paste it once in the (defpackage  (:use :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.peek-stream)) for and then just use (ungetchar ) 17:45:28 ledai [~lda@184.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:29 "Java made me do it" is not a valid excuse, hehe 17:45:35 -!- ledai [~lda@184.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:10 Guthur: it's already established that pjb doesn't want others to use his code 17:46:13 Okay, what about the package-naming convention "system-name/directory/directory/file-name" ? 17:46:20 stassats`: lol 17:46:38 I thought it was gigamonkey that promoted that namespace style, but I see pjb's stuff predates PCL. 17:48:23 nyef: I have a function to convert hierarchical package names into pathnames. 17:49:02 pjb: Sounds fair. You doing dependency-ordering based on defpackage information in your build process? 17:49:10 (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.package:package-system-definition :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.package) --> #P"PACKAGES:com;informatimago;common-lisp;cesarum;package;system.asd" 17:49:20 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:34 Ah, still on asdf, huh? 17:49:42 nyef: indeed I did. check https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/tools/make-depends.lisp 17:49:56 but nowadays I just edit the asd files manually. 17:51:39 Neat. 17:52:12 I just skip asdf and build based on dependency information grovelled from a set of root files. 17:54:02 I like quicklisp.. 17:54:17 i like clisp 17:54:59 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:55:36 stat [~stat@dslb-094-218-247-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:47 I like quicklisp as well, I just happen to be working on a system that isn't a library, so nothing else needs to depend on it that way. 17:57:17 clisp caters to my beginner's ways 17:57:41 i also like using sbcl with slime :) 17:58:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@84-236-66-34.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 17:58:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@84-236-66-34.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:58:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:02:06 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.175.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:37 -!- Guest80366 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:51 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:13 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 18:07:59 graspee: you realise Quicklisp is not actually an CL implementation 18:08:06 i didn't 18:08:19 i'm a lisp noob, as is probably apparent 18:08:39 Ah, I thought you were being funny  like "let's all state random preferences" 18:08:43 Googling quicklisp would have quickly enlightened you 18:08:43 sacho [~sacho@46.10.1.94] has joined #lisp 18:08:45 i shall google and remove a tiny piece of my noobiness 18:08:52 i just assumed 18:09:45 i should have an L by my name so everyone knows i'm a noob and doesn't misinterpret my comments 18:10:03 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@29.Red-88-11-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:17 i'm googling but quicklisp is still not clear 18:10:32 i found a table of some c and some similar looking lisp. is it a translator? 18:11:06 are you serious, google gives me www.quicklisp.org/ as the top result 18:11:16 i went there 18:11:27 and clicked around a bit, without finding out what it actually was 18:11:40 first line "Quicklisp makes it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries." 18:11:49 oh bar the title 18:11:55 that's kind of vague to me though 18:12:02 I suppose it could be spelt out a little more 18:12:04 i know i'll just stop talking 18:12:26 it just allows you to load libraries easily from inside you CL implementation 18:12:41 ok 18:12:44 (ql:quickload :some-system-name) 18:12:55 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:13:12 follow the instructions here http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 18:13:15 and try it out 18:13:26 if you run into major difficulties ask here 18:13:27 do you mean install libraries or just load them? 18:13:38 is it like gem for ruby? 18:13:51 quite similar 18:13:59 i see. thank you. i will try it out 18:14:03 it will download if required and load the system into you image 18:14:09 s/you/your 18:14:19 does it work with clisp? 18:14:35 I would guess it does 18:14:42 nvm i found the list of supported lisps 18:14:45 it supports all major implementations 18:14:50 it does 18:14:59 and sbcl so that's the two i have covered 18:15:39 is there any competition or is quicklisp the only system which exists for CL that covers this kind of thing? 18:16:41 graspee: there was/is a few other solutions, but quicklisp has gained broad acceptance 18:16:43 quicklisp basically destroyed the competition. 18:17:01 i've installed it now i'll give it a whirl 18:17:04 well when the solution is good... 18:17:55 It was more that the competition was awful 18:18:19 but quicklisp does the needed stuff 18:18:40 hmm i installed it via ubuntu package manager and the quicklisp.lisp must have gone somewhere. i'll have to track it down with find 18:18:55 dpkg -S 18:19:28 thanks. found it 18:21:32 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:12 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 18:22:25 sometimes i think there's so much stuff to learn i'll never learn enough of it in my lifetime 18:22:39 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@29.Red-88-11-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:56 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:27:06 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@29.Red-88-11-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:29:00 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has left #lisp 18:29:53 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 18:30:23 dbushenko [~dim@93.125.19.78] has joined #lisp 18:30:36 -!- dbushenko [~dim@93.125.19.78] has left #lisp 18:42:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:42:48 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:44:33 -!- kennyd [kennyd@78-1-177-109.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:47:26 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:48:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:48:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:57 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:24 most of it probably isn't very important 18:53:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:11 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:11 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-hudd6-0-0-cust741.4-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:56:51 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@29.Red-88-11-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:44 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:01:57 i wish i knew why my lisp sdl example segfaults though 19:02:00 that would be useful 19:02:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:10 ebw [~user@krlh-4d03762f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:03:19 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:45 Is there any convention, which symbols should begin with a '%' character? Like the earmuffs convention? 19:04:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:05:14 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:25 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.93] has joined #lisp 19:06:58 -!- stlifey_ [~stlifey@116.19.143.214] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 19:07:11 stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.143.214] has joined #lisp 19:07:58 graspee: there's folks in #lispgames that are familiar with lispbuilder-sdl 19:08:22 thanks i'll try there after dinner if i don't get any joy googling 19:08:24 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #lisp 19:09:16 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:10:58 ebw: "Internal" functions, usually. 19:11:07 That is, stuff that nobody is supposed to call. 19:12:53 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-385630.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:13:05 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:15:11 -!- kilon 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vervic_ [~vervic@vie-078-142-134-236.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 teiresia1 [~teiresias@99-177-241-137.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:57 [6502] [3e0a04cd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.10.4.205] has joined #lisp 20:31:48 <[6502]> What is the point of compiling files? The semantic seems quite intricated and special cased and if the normal process is to load load load and then save an image I don't see what is the gain of compiling... 20:31:57 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.61.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:13 [6502]: faster code..., the stuff in your image has typically been compiled; I tend to load from files after I load a standard base core 20:33:18 asvil [~asvil@178.121.61.2] has joined #lisp 20:34:09 [6502]: also Im not sure what the alternative would be, I guess running fully interpretted but I suppose there could be more options than that 20:34:17 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-078-142-134-236.dsl.sil.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:34:17 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:34:17 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-216-175.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:34:18 -!- vervic_ is now known as vervic 20:34:54 bobbysmith007: he said compiling FILES, not compiling code. 20:35:20 [6502]: but indeed, a few years ago, compiling programs could take 3 or 13 HOURS! 20:35:23 [6502]: what's the point of interpreting if you're going to have to re-optimize everything whenever you see a file, even though the file hasn't changed? 20:35:25 <[6502]> bobbysmith007: Oh... so this applies only to interpreter+compiler implementations. If an implementation always compiles code then I don't see what is the gain of compiling files... 20:35:33 [6502]: so it was a good idea to do it once, and then load the binaries. 20:35:45 [6502]: fasl files are supposed to be faster to load than source files. 20:36:46 [6502]: nowadays, processors are faster, and memories are bigger, so you may compile the code everytime you load it, and the difference is hardly noticeable. 20:36:46 [6502]: nonetheless, if you have a big system with a lot of files to compile, this may take more than 100 ms to compile. 20:36:46 [6502]: like, it may take two minutes! 20:36:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:09 y3llow__ [~y3llow@114-36-228-144.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:14 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-228-144.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:26 <[6502]> pjb: but you don't need to do that every time, you can save the image and reuse it no? 20:37:46 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:14 <[6502]> pjb: the whole eval-when thing looks so intricate and "un-lispy" ... 20:38:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.167.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:38:52 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.196] has joined #lisp 20:39:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:22 <[6502]> pbj: the table http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bca.htm seems coming out from a PHP release note... 20:39:27 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-166.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:39:27 -!- y3llow_ [~y3llow@114-36-235-166.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:39:28 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-216-175.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:39:35 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:39:40 *[6502]* supposes, he actually never read anything PHP related 20:39:56 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-216-175.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:10 quasisan1 [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:38 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:52 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:00 <[6502]> sykopomp: Indeed global file-level optimization is a good argument. Still partial (why not full program optimization?) but good anyway. 20:42:05 basho__ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:08 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:42:12 qsun_ [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has joined #lisp 20:42:23 [6502]: did you see the mildly-optimized version of your mandelbrot code? 20:42:26 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 20:42:27 cataska_ [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 20:42:31 jsnell_ [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:35 ChibaPet_ [~ChibaPet@phlegethon.blisses.org] has joined #lisp 20:42:35 Koven [kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:42:40 jacobw2 [~jacobw@fedora/jacobw] has joined #lisp 20:42:42 rmarians1i [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:47 dsp1_ [~dsp@slinafirinne.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:49 kloeri_ [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 20:42:57 tntc_ [~tntc@c-98-217-26-29.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:10 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:45:01 -!- Icke [b200d3a8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.0.211.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:26 -!- Kwucks [ca091892@gateway/web/freenode/ip.202.9.24.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:16 -!- [6502] [3e0a04cd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.10.4.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:41 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:58 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:59 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:59 -!- jacobw [~jacobw@fedora/jacobw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:59 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:59 -!- dsp1 [~dsp@slinafirinne.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:59 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:46:59 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:47:00 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:47:00 [6502]: and people don't likke to stare at their computer monitor for two minutes without doing anything. 20:47:00 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:47:00 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:47:01 -!- antgreen [~user@out-on-208.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:01 -!- basho___ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:47:01 -!- tntc [~tntc@c-98-217-26-29.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:47:01 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:47:02 -!- Kovensky [kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:47:02 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:47:02 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:47:04 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:47:04 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:47:06 -!- e27128 [d521469d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:47:15 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:19 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:47:22 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 20:47:23 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 20:47:29 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:37 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:47:50 ccl claims to offer light size images but that seems to be 40MB for hello world, is that what they call light? 20:47:51 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 20:48:46 -!- kloeri_ [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:58 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 20:49:19 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:24 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:24 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:47 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:53 http://denver.craigslist.org/sof/3005966457.html 20:54:55 do you want a compiler embedded in your program or not? 20:54:59 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 20:55:44 that's the second colorado lisp job I've seen recently 20:56:04 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.1.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:56:40 Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:41 sacho [~sacho@46.10.1.94] has joined #lisp 20:56:43 ah, Secure Outcomes :) 20:57:08 [6502] [3e0a04cd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.10.4.205] has joined #lisp 20:57:27 who wants to move to colorado? :( 20:57:33 colorado is nice 20:57:47 yeah, I used to live there. It was really nice. 20:57:51 avoid the Springs 20:58:21 I'm not going to move to another city again, though, no matter how lispy the job is 20:58:40 <[6502]> Kryztof: Much better now. Speed is on par with pypy on this machine. Actually pypy execution time is quite random (from 1.9 to 2.9 secs) while SBCL time is stable at 2.4 secs. 20:59:19 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 20:59:34 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 21:00:08 y3llow_ [~y3llow@114-36-228-144.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:13 -!- les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:13 -!- prip [~foo@host149-124-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:17 les [moreorles@lesharris.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:17 -!- les [moreorles@lesharris.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:00:17 les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has joined #lisp 21:00:27 prip [~foo@host149-124-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:00:40 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:40 -!- recycle`` [~user@99-10-120-63.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:52 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:00 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:03 ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 21:01:04 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 21:01:09 -!- rmarians1i is now known as rmarianski 21:01:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:15 -!- LAMMJohnson [~JA@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust336.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:01:29 -!- ebobby is now known as Guest60328 21:01:32 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has joined #lisp 21:02:02 LAMMJohnson [~JA@cpc3-nrwh9-2-0-cust336.4-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:12 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@29.Red-88-11-20.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:03:12 -!- y3llow__ [~y3llow@114-36-228-144.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:12 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:50 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:04:14 wait until I add a mandelbrot-loop detector. 21:04:42 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04:45 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04:48 pkhuong: awwwwww yeeeeaaah 21:05:12 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:05:55 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-11-91.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:55 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06:16 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 21:06:17 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 21:06:17 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 21:06:18 <[6502]> pkhuong: I think pypy has that special case :-) ... during bootstrap I'v read somewhere that outputs a mandelbrot ASCII picture 21:08:08 -!- ilogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:45 <[6502]> pkhuong: In my toy lisp compiler generating the same image requires 4.1 seconds... more than half the speed of SBCL :-) 21:08:47 ilogical [~iLogical@187.112.156.97] has joined #lisp 21:09:00 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:16 -!- booklet is now known as Quadrescence 21:09:25 -!- gensym [~tg@85.158.178.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:25 -!- kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:29 kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:46 pnq [~nick@ACA254CA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:59 gensym [~tg@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 21:11:28 dlowe, why wouldnt you move? 21:11:44 *[6502]* thinks chrome JIT compiler is amazing 21:12:15 (also known as V8) 21:12:56 -!- rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nwbkhlqlduxyehjt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13:12 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ruekbokdyvjlfaih] has joined #lisp 21:13:27 <[6502]> Quadrescence: yeah... i compile from lisp to javascript, run in a browser and the resulting speed is only half of SBCL... isn't that amazing? 21:14:45 -!- Koven is now known as Kovensky 21:14:52 [6502], half in what sense? 21:15:03 SBCL = x, yours = x/2? 21:15:32 or SBCL = x, yours = 2*x 21:15:51 <[6502]> Quadrescence: the code for computing a 640x480 mandelbrot image is 2.4secs with SBCL optimized code and running in the browser is 4.1seconds 21:16:02 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.213.176] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:16:48 I see. I'm not sure that's amazing, especially if you're compiling a subset of Lisp, which can be translated rather directly into JS, and we know Chrome does pretty well. 21:16:49 <[6502]> Quadrescence: not exactly the same code... i've not implemented complex so the loop uses explict real/imag parts 21:17:23 Where's the Lisp code that SBCL compiles? 21:17:57 js has jit compiler ? 21:18:42 wbooze, yes of course. several. 21:18:47 <[6502]> Quadrescence: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129379 ... last annotations 21:19:15 but why do you expect the compuatation to be carried out to be the same speed ? 21:19:27 wouldn't network connectivity require some sort of lag ? 21:19:28 ferada_ [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:42 and the translation layer..... 21:20:06 <[6502]> wbooze: what do you mean? the computation is done locally in the browser... 21:20:18 oh 21:20:52 [SLB] [~slabua@host33-161-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:20:52 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host33-161-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 21:20:53 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 21:21:13 [6502], did you happen to profile the SBCL program? 21:21:49 <[6502]> Quadrescence: Kryztof did... I didn't 21:21:49 CampinSam [~user@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:36 <[6502]> wbooze: here you can see the result in your browser http://gripho.dyndns.org:8001/andrea/runjs.html?mandelbrot.js 21:25:35 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:25:37 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:37 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:37 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:37 kleppari [~spa@212.30.204.85] has joined #lisp 21:25:37 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:37 __main__ [~main@67.180.22.241] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:25:38 -!- kleppari [~spa@212.30.204.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:38 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:38 cyphase [~cyphase@99.27.202.136] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 ezakimak [~nick@69.9.62.212] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:38 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@99.27.202.136] has quit [Changing host] 21:25:38 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 21:26:52 not even colored 21:26:54 -!- cheier [~chris@64.129.86.8] has quit [] 21:27:08 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.61.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:27:30 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:34 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:27:38 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:58 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:28:04 <[6502]> wbooze: hehehe... even grayscale is too much. Mandelbrot set is just a subset of the complex plane... 21:28:17 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:54 <[6502]> wbooze: the javascript source is the output of compiler + treeshaker + minifier 21:29:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:29:30 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 21:30:22 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-131-120-189.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:33:20 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.157.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:35:46 <[6502]> this eval-when thing is truly killing 21:36:33 <[6502]> i don't think i'll implement it 21:42:26 -!- billitch [~billitch@70-36-196-160.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:42:57 -!- ferada_ [~ferada@dslb-088-069-043-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44:16 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.1.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:44:59 sacho [~sacho@46.10.1.94] has joined #lisp 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has joined #lisp 22:53:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-194.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:10 billitch [~billitch@70-36-196-160.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:51 lboat [~lboat@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:20 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:58:48 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-192-10.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:38 Ralith [~ralith@63.64.64.178] has joined #lisp 23:01:37 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:02:20 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:41 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 23:10:39 iandalton [~user@216.51.42.66] has joined #lisp 23:11:15 Is there a term that is the XML equivalent of the Lisp concept of "forms"? 23:11:54 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-385630.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:05 iandalton: XML is not a programming language. 23:12:24 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:55 Are forms a programming language-specific concept? I thought they were used when referring to data as well. 23:13:11 clhs glossary/form 23:13:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#form 23:13:46 Sounds like a data-oriented term from that definition 23:16:57 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:26 doesn't sound to me like that at all 23:18:40 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:19:02 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Client Quit] 23:19:09 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:19:37 "any object meant to be evaluated" If it hasn't been evaluated yet, it's not yet code; it's data, right? 23:19:59 what is code? 23:20:28 data with attached meaning 23:20:43 am i talking in code? 23:20:51 Yeah 23:21:20 so, this definition is arbitrary and meaningless 23:21:53 I don't agree, but I came to ask a question, not argue, so I'll leave 23:21:54 -!- iandalton [~user@216.51.42.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.50.1] 23:22:09 your question was wrong 23:23:50 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:24:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:24:46 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@84-236-66-34.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 23:24:47 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 23:24:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@84-236-66-34.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:24:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:25:57 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:39 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:27:39 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:27:45 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:28 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28:29 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:30:28 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:30:51 zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-70-101-45.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:03 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 23:31:18 ledai_ [~lda@200.Red-79-159-6.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:28 -!- ledai [~lda@187.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:31:29 -!- ledai_ is now known as ledai 23:31:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:32:39 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 23:32:58 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 23:33:22 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:52 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Client Quit] 23:35:40 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:44 sannya [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:36:52 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 23:37:48 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:40:15 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:46 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.185] has joined #lisp 23:43:58 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA254CA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:49:08 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.231.196] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 23:49:16 Pupeno_W_ [~pupeno@host217-34-41-187.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:47 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:50:18 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:51:35 -!- Pupeno_W [~pupeno@87-194-65-126.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:51:35 -!- Pupeno_W_ is now known as Pupeno_W 23:51:41 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:40 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:09 has anyone seen/heard farzad lately? he had some contributions for SEXML which are a cool example as to how you can extend it, but i can't seem to reach him :/