00:00:01 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:04 unless you have millions of them, or you're stuck in 1995, it'll be ok 00:00:23 ok thanks 00:01:27 -!- antonv [5d7d3142@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.66] has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:50 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:03:08 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.7] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 00:07:25 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 00:08:32 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 00:09:24 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 00:09:31 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 00:10:27 diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-124.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:24 -!- kmcorbett 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00:34:49 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:36:11 -!- strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:36:59 H4ns: Word wrapping using the pretty-printer (but without FORMAT, I don't remember its syntax for it): http://paste.lisp.org/display/129182 00:41:29 Got it. http://paste.lisp.org/display/129182#1 00:41:56 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 00:44:52 super___ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-58.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:55 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:45:07 -!- super___ is now known as Guest68704 00:46:40 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:48:50 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 00:50:01 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 00:51:23 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:51:47 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:52:09 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:53:39 xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:47 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 00:58:45 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:44 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:57 -!- daedalus_ [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:04:10 -!- daedalus__ [~daedalus@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:04:56 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:05:44 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:09:11 which produces crap 01:10:44 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 01:10:54 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:30 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 01:14:12 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:15:04 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.175.62.106.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 01:15:49 -!- ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-105.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:16:33 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17:35 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647083.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:19:14 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.145.200] has joined #lisp 01:20:32 ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-105.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:02 stassats: Uh? How so? 01:23:41 Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has joined #lisp 01:23:50 -!- Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:02 Bike [~Glossina@63-230-160-8.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:25 Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has joined #lisp 01:25:48 -!- Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:20 Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has joined #lisp 01:26:31 -!- Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:13 Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has joined #lisp 01:27:19 -!- Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:38 Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has joined #lisp 01:28:01 -!- Setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:10 have you tried to run it? 01:29:29 stassats: Yes. It seems to work as expected. 01:30:23 Hexstream: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129182#2 01:30:37 harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-cshooqdeatmbtmvy] has joined #lisp 01:31:39 That's not what I get. An in-progress version did that, but it's not what I pasted. Hum. 01:32:21 it's crap on half of the implementations 01:32:46 Maybe it's implementation bugs. ;P 01:33:44 I should have explicitly bound *print-pretty* to t in that second example. 01:33:51 The FORMAT version, I mean. 01:35:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-69-105.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:44:55 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 01:46:40 les [moreorles@lesharris.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:41 -!- les [moreorles@lesharris.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:46:41 les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has joined #lisp 01:48:04 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.77.158] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:50:16 setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has joined #lisp 01:51:04 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:34 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has joined #lisp 01:55:48 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Quit: I'm finished!] 01:56:17 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 02:04:37 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 02:05:09 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:10:46 -!- harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-cshooqdeatmbtmvy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:36 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-bictfesmhvqpiuav] has joined #lisp 02:19:13 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:21:40 jiaxi [~jiaxi@61.148.56.138] has joined #lisp 02:21:55 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:29 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:45 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 02:25:04 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:20 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-113-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:37 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 02:30:04 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 02:32:25 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:41 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:40:19 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:50 -!- shifty` [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:09 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:49:24 shifty` [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:54:35 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:48 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:16 teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has joined #lisp 02:57:18 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:58 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B7D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:01:40 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:01:58 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1279647083.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 03:02:14 HotHat [~lyhux@27.158.144.22] has joined #lisp 03:02:40 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 03:02:50 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 03:03:10 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@178-164-240-163.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 03:03:10 -!- achiu1 [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 03:03:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:03:25 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:21 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:08:01 kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:08:36 Is there a way to have both a counting loop and a loop over sequences in one call to the loop macro? 03:08:49 of course 03:10:53 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:10:57 -!- HotHat [~lyhux@27.158.144.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:12:05 HotHat [~lyhux@27.158.144.22] has joined #lisp 03:12:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-198.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 03:12:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-198.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 03:12:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:13:08 stassats: Thank you! 03:13:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:13:40 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@178-164-240-163.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:15:04 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:06 DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.77.158] has joined #lisp 03:16:31 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 03:16:32 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:52 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 03:22:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:23:09 dlowe: you should tell xach to pull local-time from your github repo, no? 03:23:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-224-10.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:27:11 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:56 killown [~geek@189.110.232.119] has joined #lisp 03:28:10 -!- killown [~geek@189.110.232.119] has quit [Changing host] 03:28:10 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 03:34:40 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:37:08 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:37:28 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:38:29 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:40:38 Guest55189 [~kyle@arh2050.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 03:40:54 -!- Guest55189 is now known as jack_rabbit 03:41:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:41:44 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:42:15 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:43:45 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-6.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:44:01 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 03:46:34 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:49:20 paul0 [~paul0@200.175.62.106.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:51:19 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-219-144.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:19 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-219-144.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:20 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 03:51:50 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:53:54 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-45-242.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:56 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:54:03 froydnj_: herep 03:55:18 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.175.62.106.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 03:56:09 I've taken a look at iolib, and downloaded the source. Now I'm lost. All of my lisp coding has been from the gigamonkeys website except for my own projects, and I've not worked with other people's source. I can't find any documentation on how to "install." 03:56:29 I have a bunch of asd files, which are full of lisp forms. How do I know which ones I should load 03:57:54 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:09 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-58-95.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:58:13 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-8-192.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 03:58:15 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-58-95.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:58:16 lemoinem [~swoog@248-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:18 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-8-192.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 04:01:26 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:36 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:01:43 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:02:22 jack_rabbit: it looks like iolib is in quicklisp 04:02:59 em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:04 -!- em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:03:04 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:03:05 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 04:03:05 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 04:03:06 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 04:04:11 iolib? 04:07:29 jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 04:10:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:11:54 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-200-146.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:00 Arelius [43b42256@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.180.34.86] has joined #lisp 04:12:20 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-200-146.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:12:41 Is there a way to force an import of a function in a package that isn't exported? 04:12:45 Thanks. Was actually working on that as you typed it. 04:12:54 Quicklisp is great. 04:13:04 jack_rabbit: yeah, you can learn if you want, but the much easier way is to just get quicklisp: http://beta.quicklisp.org 04:13:11 Arelius: functions doesn't have anything to do with packages 04:13:13 symbols are 04:13:14 oh, I had typed out the line and then you said that 04:13:29 stassats: Ok, I see your point. 04:13:34 Same question for symbols than. 04:13:39 jasom: I sense sarcsm? 04:13:46 Can I get at a symbol that's not exported from a package. 04:13:56 clhs import 04:13:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_import.htm 04:13:58 jack_rabbit: no I had already typed the line and enter was faster than deleting it 04:14:14 but what do you mean by get? 04:14:15 Arelius: besides that, you can just do packagename::symbolname instead of packagename:symbolname. 04:14:21 ahh. 04:14:28 just refer to it? foo::symbol 04:14:58 or refer to it as symbol in a different package? then import, but that'd be a really bad idea 04:15:33 stassats, Bike That's exactally all I wanted! 04:15:41 Fantastic! 04:15:49 using foo::symbols isn't a great idea either 04:16:37 stassats: in that if it's not exported I probally shouldn't be using it anyways? 04:16:50 right 04:17:19 Yeah.... I know... I just really really want to use cl-who::tree-to-commands 04:17:27 And I think it actually used to be exported 04:17:37 since cl-who:tree-to-commands used to work. 04:18:25 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:18:35 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:18:44 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 04:19:16 wedgeV_ [~wedge@cpe-24-193-113-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:26 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-113-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:19:27 -!- wedgeV_ is now known as wedgeV 04:19:34 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:20:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:24:39 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-bictfesmhvqpiuav] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:28:34 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-113-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 04:34:10 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ubscjaxjilrgsmlz] has joined #lisp 04:36:27 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 04:40:16 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:21 -!- benny [~benny@i577A11A7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:40:32 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:41:43 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176172871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:44:22 hangin10 [~chatzilla@c-76-16-242-1.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:51 what do you do with it? 04:48:08 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:22 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:54:19 I'm not even sure anymore 04:54:25 it's old code that used to work ;) 05:00:39 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:02:35 entrix_ [~entrix@95-27-85-237.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:03:37 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:48 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:10:16 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442426.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:18 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:14:09 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442426.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:16:15 -!- scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:22 katerbau [~axel@xdsl-81-173-152-236.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:19:32 in cl-who, i can say (:!--[if\ lt\ IE\ 8] ), but how do i get the closing tag to say ![endif]--? 05:20:56 -!- katerbau [~axel@xdsl-81-173-152-236.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:21:12 Levenson [~Levenson@193.110.239.168] has joined #lisp 05:24:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:26:33 nm, i see i can just put strings directly into the stream 05:27:06 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:00 daedalus_ [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:33 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:39 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-203-68.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:39 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-203-68.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:28:40 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 05:28:54 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:16 daedalus__ [~daedalus@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:05 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:33:48 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-unlepjzowdbjzifr] has joined #lisp 05:33:48 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-unlepjzowdbjzifr] has quit [Changing host] 05:33:48 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:34:08 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:38:09 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@193.110.239.168] has left #lisp 05:43:39 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 05:45:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:46:47 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Quit: Hhhhheeeeeeellllllllpppppppppppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] 05:52:21 -!- kevin01123 [~user@97-91-232-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:40 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:53:49 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 05:54:55 -!- entrix_ [~entrix@95-27-85-237.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:59:39 entrix [~entrix@95-27-85-237.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:00:05 -!- hangin10 [~chatzilla@c-76-16-242-1.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120423122843]] 06:00:22 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:34 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-27-85-237.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 06:01:37 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:06:48 asvil [~asvil@178.121.228.226] has joined #lisp 06:08:23 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-dmqomhamvnakyqup] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:08:56 reb [user@nat/google/x-cmpavhuqnrxoizer] has joined #lisp 06:11:24 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176172871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 06:12:41 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 06:14:31 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:16:22 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:16:42 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 06:22:16 -!- shifty` [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:29 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:22:42 shifty` [~user@114-198-37-54.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:25:56 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:27:43 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.234] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 06:31:41 mk2 [~user@PCX143.ipht-jena.de] has joined #lisp 06:31:52 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:33:14 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 06:33:51 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:33:51 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:33:51 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:34:06 Is someone working on SBCL for Raspberry PI or OLinuxino (the small ARM based computers)? 06:34:06 06:35:27 kennyd [kennyd@93-141-62-192.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:35:43 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.77.158] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:38:19 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-124.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:36 diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-124.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:42:42 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 06:43:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:13 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 06:52:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-227-205.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:59 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:53:35 -!- mk2 [~user@PCX143.ipht-jena.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:58:11 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:00:42 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: .] 07:01:31 -!- HotHat [~lyhux@27.158.144.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:04:37 HotHat [~lyhux@27.158.144.22] has joined #lisp 07:06:01 harish [~harish@119.234.35.20] has joined #lisp 07:08:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:00 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-206.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:10:04 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:10:31 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:13 Kryztof [~user@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:15:16 wbooze`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:15:36 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:17:33 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:17:41 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:23:30 benny` [~benny@i577A2433.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:26:10 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:26:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:27:26 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 07:30:51 -!- Arelius [43b42256@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.180.34.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:32:01 HotHat1 [~lyhux@27.158.145.113] has joined #lisp 07:32:48 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-egahoxwyofnomfsn] has joined #lisp 07:34:23 -!- HotHat [~lyhux@27.158.144.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:34:56 jack_rabbit: what do you mean by "network device" ? 07:35:51 I tried to (declaim (inline )) a generic function, hoping that the compiler would use type declarations to inline the correct method 07:36:14 but even with (speed 3) (debug 1) (safety 0) the disassembly shows a call 07:38:32 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:39:26 FreeArtMan [~fam@62.85.99.68] has joined #lisp 07:39:35 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 07:40:56 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:43:29 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 07:46:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:49:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-230-160-8.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 07:50:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:51:13 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:13 -!- wbooze`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:57 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bovfkpttlsbbsxjl] has joined #lisp 07:54:45 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has joined #lisp 07:58:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:55 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 07:59:47 Indecipherable [~user@41.13.0.117] has joined #lisp 08:00:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:01:07 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-140-193.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:22 -!- jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:02:20 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: reboot] 08:03:44 flip214: what makes you think that the compiler (which?) would be able to inline gc invocations? did you provide the proper type declarations to make it even possible? 08:04:44 H4ns: here's a pastie: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129186 08:06:17 that's sbcl on debian amd64, 1.0.56.0 08:06:43 -!- Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:06:53 H4ns: I've annotated with the disassembly 08:07:09 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 08:07:26 flip214: how do you think that this inlining could be happening? 08:08:01 flip214: when i worked on high-performance code (allegro), i used defsubst when i needed to make sure that inlining would actually happen 08:08:24 flip214: inline declarations never did much for me. 08:08:46 well, if I declare the generic to be inlined, and the types of the arguments are sufficiently known, I'd have hoped that SBCL is a SSC 08:09:20 What is an SSO? 08:09:31 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 08:09:45 H4ns: Is there a DEFSUBST for CL? I only find results for emacs 08:09:49 so you actually want to ask "can sbcl inline gf invocations, given enough declarations?". it is one that i can't answer. 08:09:50 Zhivago: I wrote SSC 08:09:53 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:03 SSO would be Single-Sign-On 08:10:06 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:10 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:14 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 08:10:14 flip214: i don't know about the defsubst either 08:10:19 in short, i don't have a clue 08:10:20 :) 08:10:21 sorry. 08:10:27 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.234] has joined #lisp 08:10:42 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:48 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:10:51 Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:08 -!- ASau` [~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:11:10 hmmm, so I could try a compiler-macro that looks through the methods, or some macro trickery 08:11:20 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 08:11:47 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 08:13:15 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 08:14:02 ASau` [~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:14:58 flip214: Someone could remove the methods at runtime 08:15:30 tcr: yes, of course ... or add new ones. but changing the function is a risk that's acknowledged when declaring a function inline 08:16:06 Maybe. I agree it would be neat. :-) 08:18:02 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 08:20:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:20:26 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:20:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:07 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 08:26:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:26:51 I've got a compiler-macro now, and it seems to do something ... but there's still the argument-counting code etc. 08:26:59 that could/should all be gone .... hmmm 08:27:18 can the compiler macro access the inferred or declared type information of function arguments? 08:27:19 perhaps I'll have to look for another solution 08:28:09 H4ns: yes, if the compiler puts that info in the &env 08:28:46 fe[nl]ix: i need to rephrase :) 08:29:02 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-98-89-94-71.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:29:08 flip214: does your compiler macro access the inferred or declared type information of the function arguments? 08:29:09 which implementations put inferred type info into the &env ? 08:29:15 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:29:31 It's likely that I'm doing something wrong ... let me paste 08:29:37 I'd expect sbcl & cmucl at least 08:30:11 H4ns: http://paste.lisp.org/display/129186#2 08:30:33 I think my view of things is a bit too simplistic, though 08:33:22 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:34:47 flip214: yes. type-of won't do what you intend it to do here. 08:35:15 flip214: for constants it is certainly trivial, but try what it does when you pass actual variables. 08:35:39 well, how would I get derived types of arguments? 08:36:04 I asked that about a month ago ... is there some SBCL function that takes a form and annotates it with derived types? 08:36:32 flip214: you'll have to look at the environment, but it might be that sbcl does not provide the information in a convenient way 08:36:54 flip214: i.e. first thing you'll need to do is get access to the environment in the compiler macro, using &env 08:38:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:39:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:40:09 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:40:20 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.35.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:43:27 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:48 H4ns: It's &environment ;) 08:44:10 flip214: i told you i have no clue 08:44:32 never mind, thanks. 08:49:11 hajovonta [zqtnfs@83.170.106.45] has joined #lisp 08:50:35 -!- hajovonta [zqtnfs@83.170.106.45] has quit [Client Quit] 08:51:00 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 08:53:03 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 08:56:50 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:05 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:07:19 strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:13:28 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-39.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:20:01 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:07 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:10 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:21:54 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Quit: Fullmoon] 09:23:04 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.228.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:28:44 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 09:29:11 Levenson [~Levenson@193.110.239.168] has joined #lisp 09:31:05 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 09:31:19 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Client Quit] 09:34:43 -!- HotHat1 [~lyhux@27.158.145.113] has left #lisp 09:36:07 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d013cdd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:48 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:40:19 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:40:28 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:41:07 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:42:14 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:42:52 Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has joined #lisp 09:44:03 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:44:37 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 09:45:16 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-6.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:16 -!- Hussaind [~hussain@115.124.115.71] has left #lisp 09:46:53 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-6.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:47:39 -!- ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:50:49 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:53:01 -!- jiaxi [~jiaxi@61.148.56.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:04 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54:49 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:06 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 10:01:32 what's needed to get hemlock.qt running via qt? I'v installed libqt4-dev, but that's not enough it seems. 10:01:40 Error while invoking # on #SO "qt" "commonqt"> 10:01:44 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 10:03:11 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 10:05:12 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:05:53 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:07:29 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:07:46 ok, libsmokeqt4-dev was needed 10:07:50 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-88-32.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:08:19 -!- Indecipherable [~user@41.13.0.117] has left #lisp 10:08:35 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:10:11 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-219-144.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:49 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-219-144.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:10 anybody who knows hemlock? does slime already work there? 10:13:17 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yxsjdksukqpmrzsb] has joined #lisp 10:13:17 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-yxsjdksukqpmrzsb] has quit [Changing host] 10:13:17 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:14:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:14:15 and vim keybindings won't be available yet, too ... right? 10:15:00 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:15:48 ok, found the hemlock slime howto. 10:16:34 ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-88-32.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:17:10 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:18:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:21:21 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:29 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:21:50 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-nfwkmxmoefpvewmt] has joined #lisp 10:21:50 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-nfwkmxmoefpvewmt] has quit [Changing host] 10:21:50 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:22:06 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:07 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:23:08 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-bbvrflqptjgarqbl] has joined #lisp 10:23:09 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-bbvrflqptjgarqbl] has quit [Changing host] 10:23:09 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:24:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:24:49 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:29:43 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:30:26 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:14 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:32:18 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:24 -!- krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:34:29 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:55 -!- pjb is now known as Guest97667 10:35:01 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:35:10 -!- Guest97667 is now known as pjb 10:35:51 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:38:09 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:38 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-okilyvmtsmtcbygo] has joined #lisp 10:38:38 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-okilyvmtsmtcbygo] has quit [Changing host] 10:38:38 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:39:02 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:49 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 10:40:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:40:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:29 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:41:30 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:42:05 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:13 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:18 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-124.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:36 diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-124.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:35 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:48:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:48:31 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:48:52 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:53:34 -!- daedalus__ [~daedalus@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-014.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:54:30 -!- daedalus_ [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:14 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:01:54 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 11:03:32 Radium [~carbon@117.203.19.4] has joined #lisp 11:07:45 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 11:14:41 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 11:15:14 library or code for transforming lisp to tex latex? (did I ask thos before I can't remember) 11:19:49 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:20:12 minion: tex? 11:20:13 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``tex''. 11:20:16 minion: latex? 11:20:16 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``latex''. 11:20:42 francogrex: but you can go thru intermediary formats, such as sgml (docbook) or others. 11:21:18 cl-typesetting 11:21:33 http://www.fractalconcept.com/asp/qwS1/sdataQ08mZGcU8NvoDM==/sdataQucgleWmCuSG9eWI$Nmw 11:21:57 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 11:23:05 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:24:04 http://www.fractalconcept.com/asp/qwS1/sdataQ08mZGcU8NvoDM==/sdataQucgleW\ 11:24:18 ok sorry for the copy/paste 11:25:05 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-119-175.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:10 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.19.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:34:47 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:56 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-140-193.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:41:11 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.200] has joined #lisp 11:41:15 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@90.150.174.200] has quit [Client Quit] 11:52:01 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:53:45 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:56:24 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:56:48 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 11:58:17 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:01:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:03:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:32 apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:40 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:52 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 12:06:56 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 12:07:38 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:07:55 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:34 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:11:46 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:13:36 Modius` [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:07 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 12:14:48 _8david [~user@port-92-195-60-72.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:15:20 sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:21 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:27 Yuuhi`` [benni@p54839E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:14 treyka [~treyka@ip-188-118-20-209.reverse.destiny.be] has joined #lisp 12:17:37 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:28 kaol_ [kaol@piperka.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:32 timb_ [~tim@72.51.39.49] has joined #lisp 12:18:37 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:18:42 cods_ [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:54 teiresia1 [~teiresias@99-177-241-137.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:57 aerique_ [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:19:00 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:05 impulse32_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442426.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:19:16 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:19:42 <_8david> fe[nl]ix: my problem: I'm not certain what *cpu-word-size-flags* is for. And I noticed the other day that the flags defined there (-m32) are x86-specific. So should this whole thing be just #+x86? Or #-arm? 12:20:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:16 _main_ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:31 -!- theos is now known as Guest56693 12:22:31 -!- Guest56693 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:22:58 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:23:35 -!- harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442426.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839E9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- bpg [~bogdan@unassigned-178.80.183.216.net.blink.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- timb [~tim@bacon2.burri.to] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:35 -!- Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:23:45 bpg [~bogdan@unassigned-178.80.183.216.net.blink.ca] has joined #lisp 12:24:08 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 12:24:11 -!- cods_ is now known as cods 12:24:20 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:24:20 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 12:24:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:25:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:08 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:34 replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-135.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 12:29:18 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:29:27 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 12:29:27 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:30:06 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 12:30:24 _8david: I always add #-arm to make it compile on ARM 12:30:57 _8david: #+(or x86 x86-64 sparc sparc64) I think 12:31:57 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:32:47 <_8david> ivan4th: well, me too :-). fe[nl]ix' suggestion sounds better though. 12:32:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:01 <_8david> fe[nl]ix: shall I commit that and send a pull request? 12:33:03 fAz4 [~amir@95.38.52.65] has joined #lisp 12:33:16 <_8david> ivan4th: Which sort of ARM computer/OS are you running on, BTW? 12:33:42 PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:34:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:07 nipra [~nipra@122.177.231.228] has joined #lisp 12:35:38 -!- kennyd [kennyd@93-141-62-192.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:35:44 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:36:17 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:37:52 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-119-175.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:20 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-119-175.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:28 kennyd [kennyd@93-139-60-57.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:38:38 _8david: it's some Russian Beagleboard clone 12:40:22 OMAP3530 12:40:57 http://mentorel.com/blueshark.html 12:41:05 -!- teiresia1 is now known as teiresias 12:41:17 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@99-177-241-137.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:41:17 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 12:42:39 ivan4th: what's the price range of those boards? 12:43:13 <_8david> cool. Sounds sort of like the Raspberry Pi thing that's constantly in the news, except with a usably new CPU. 12:43:15 *madnificent* is wondering about the BSA boards, mostly. but any indication is welcome 12:43:35 madnificent: kind of $150-$250, depending on configuration, may seem pricey, but these things are rather hard to find here 12:43:55 _8david: Raspberry Pi can't run CCL 12:43:56 madnificent: dev kit $450 12:44:14 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:19 H4ns: that's exactly what i needed to know, thanks :) 12:44:49 ivan4th: feels like a reasonable price range. at least for the operating temperatures and the features. 12:45:09 btw I have some bitbake scripts needed to crosscompile smoke stuff for ARM, if anyone is interested 12:45:24 If I declare a function (or method) inline, does SBCL keep the source forms in some internal structure? 12:46:35 (building smokeqt on the device itself takes WAY too long and is rather difficult when using Angstrom Linux...) 12:46:39 flip214: yes, for functions. 12:47:07 -!- fAz4 [~amir@95.38.52.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:50:40 pkhuong: not for methods? where would I find it for functions? 12:51:34 rPi has decent temperature limits as well, it seems 12:52:44 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-246-245.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:53:09 -!- setekhid [~hzdai@112.4.154.131] has left #lisp 12:53:32 pkhuong: I found symbol => function => code => debug-info => source => form 12:56:01 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@62.85.99.68] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:57:11 _8david: yes, go ahead 13:00:09 flip214: function-lambda-expression is a semi-portable option 13:02:28 <_8david> fe[nl]ix: hrmm, current iolib git doesn't build as easily as the old version I had quicklisped 13:03:03 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.231.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:03:54 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-egahoxwyofnomfsn] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:05:00 -!- xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:14 _8david: what are the problems ? 13:07:33 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:07:57 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:08:53 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@193.110.239.168] has left #lisp 13:10:43 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:10:44 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:48 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:13:22 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-86.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:19:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.209.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:21:36 ikki [~ikki@189.139.24.38] has joined #lisp 13:24:29 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:46 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:26:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:26:18 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:42 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:26:42 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:26:42 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:34:47 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:36:39 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:37:03 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:42:21 profmakx [~profmakx@unaffiliated/profmakx] has joined #lisp 13:42:28 hi people 13:42:47 hi person 13:43:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-247.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 13:43:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-247.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:43:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:43:41 :) just thought I'd say hi. gotten back into lisp recently. so i'll lurk a bit 13:45:14 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-71-238-24-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:45:19 _8david: ?? 13:45:25 echo-area [~user@114.254.109.26] has joined #lisp 13:45:32 morning 13:45:44 hi slyrus_ 13:47:41 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-173-66-213-19.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:29 xyxu [~xyxu@61.171.42.155] has joined #lisp 13:51:34 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:58 enjoy your stay profmakx 13:54:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:55:17 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:58:41 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-124.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:00 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@61.171.42.155] has left #lisp 14:02:32 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 14:08:42 -!- sellout1 is now known as sellout 14:09:21 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-094-218-033-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:19 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:17:23 passionke [~Administr@58.100.73.208] has joined #lisp 14:18:15 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 14:19:03 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ubscjaxjilrgsmlz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19:40 Radium [~carbon@117.203.10.5] has joined #lisp 14:20:05 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:46 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-35-219-144.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:20:46 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 14:23:56 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:24:02 Greetings lispers 14:24:53 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:21 Hello 14:28:35 Anyone with SLIME skills here? 14:28:37 Actually 14:28:40 SWANK skills 14:29:38 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:04 loke: what's the problem ? 14:31:23 fe[nl]ix: well, I would like to know if there is some swank functions that can find a list of all external symbols in any package that matches some pattern 14:31:53 Something like swank:apropos-list-for-emacs but package-agnostic 14:33:12 Couldn't you just couple that with LIST-ALL-PACKAGES? 14:34:04 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:34:30 <|3b|> looks like that does all packages except KEYWORD if you pass it NIL 14:34:44 <|3b|> or don't pass a package 14:34:59 -!- replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-135.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:09 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:35:38 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:19 |3b|: actually, no. If you don't give it a package, it uses SWANK::*BUFFER-PACKAGE* 14:36:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:44 *|3b|* wonders if my slime is out of date or something 14:36:59 LIST-ALL-PACKAGES with DO-EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS with CL-PPCRE, bam, you're done. 14:37:21 loke: not here 14:37:23 ThomasH: all right. I'll do it that way 14:37:50 fe[nl]ix: You sure? If you try it from the REPL, then swank::*buffer-package* is set to your current package 14:38:17 <|3b|> (swank:apropos-list-for-emacs "open" t) lists stuff from 8 or so packages here 14:38:20 loke: I understand that that lacks a little elegence, but it definitely is expedient. And, I'm not savvy enough to come up with a better approach. 14:38:37 loke: I see the sources and the results 14:39:33 <|3b|> yeah, current git matches what i have... maybe your slime is old or modified? 14:39:38 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-246-245.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 14:40:06 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:40:50 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:04 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:41:15 loke: Alternatively, you could use the loop for-as-package subclause instead of DO-EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS. 14:41:30 loke: Might make terminating the loop easier to follow. 14:41:45 ThomasH: I know. It's just that it seems as though swank does a bit of fancy sorting on the results 14:42:27 loke: Ah, ok. 14:43:22 <|3b|> loke: alternately see if you have M-x slime-apropos-all and see how that works 14:44:13 |3b|: It seems as though those commands makes plenty of expectations about the environment that just isn't true when running swank outside of slime 14:44:29 <|3b|> (which just calls swank:apropos-list-for-emacs with NIL for package) 14:44:49 I'll just follow thomas's suggestion and make my own 14:45:10 |3b|: right, and that causes a fallback into swank::*buffer-package* 14:45:23 try unbindning it and call the function and youll see 14:45:38 if you're not running inside emacs, why not just use cl-ppcre:regex-apropos? 14:45:55 <|3b|> well, yeah... you do generally need to call things with the environment they expect 14:45:55 nikodemus: good question. 14:46:05 nikodemus: That's pretty much what I'm about to do now :-) 14:46:18 i thought you wanted to use swank stuff to display the results in a buffer, or something 14:46:21 I was trying to be lazy, I guess 14:46:37 there's also apropos-list, but it just does substring matching 14:46:54 nikodemus: No. I use Swank stuff to do implemntation-independent introspection stuff. But I figured I could also use it for some apropos-related stuff, since I needed it 14:47:22 OK, and I think I've overused the word "stuff" now. 14:48:17 For the record, I'm working on the interactive search for Docbrowser. 14:50:00 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:50:12 <|3b|> for what it's worth, binding swank::*buffer-package* to *package* and swank::*buffer-readtable* to *readtable* makes swank:apropos-list-for-emacs work 14:50:36 there's a 3-clause IF in swank-sbcl.lisp 14:50:37 |3b|: hmm 14:50:47 nikodemus: is that fixed in CVS ? 14:50:54 |3b|: I think I'll write my own anyway. I need the flexibility 14:51:42 in lisp-source-location 14:52:31 no IF in lisp-source-location in CVS HEAD at all 14:53:41 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120417165043]] 14:53:44 oh, wait 14:53:51 M-. confused me 14:53:53 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:54:05 yeah 14:54:13 *nikodemus* fixes 14:54:26 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bovfkpttlsbbsxjl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:55:07 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:53 fix committed 15:00:25 thanks 15:00:43 hmm 15:01:10 is there a hook that updates the git mirror ? 15:01:34 the update appeared immediately 15:01:35 cool 15:01:44 no more 30m lag 15:02:06 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:07 yay to antifuchs 15:03:03 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 15:03:35 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:54 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-200-146.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:58 naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-232-9.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:09:50 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ikpawdvndtdejnbh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:54 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 15:12:07 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.234] has joined #lisp 15:12:16 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17:17 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 15:18:52 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:25 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:42 rillo [~patrick@p549648F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:25:01 soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has joined #lisp 15:25:10 -!- soveran [~soveran@186.19.214.247] has left #lisp 15:28:17 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-163-13.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 15:28:24 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-178-88.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:28:56 dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:28 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:28 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:34:29 i use clisp on ubunt 11. when clisp compiles a package, it places the fas somewhere under ~/.cache/common-lisp/blahblah. Where can this be configured? 15:36:57 rillo: not sure but it's a fairly standard location, are you jsut changing it for convenience? 15:37:21 just want to understand the package-mechanism 15:37:23 all the CLs i've worked with recently put fasls there 15:37:39 ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-067-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:44 <|3b|> do they? i thought only asdf put them there 15:37:45 well that is orthogonal to packages 15:37:59 oh really? 15:38:31 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:38:33 ah its a matter of asdf. thank you. i will then search there 15:39:06 <|3b|> if you meant asdf, see http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-saves-compiled-files 15:39:18 <|3b|> and asdf deals with 'systems' not 'packages' 15:39:18 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:39:43 actually i suppose that must be, because doing a slime-compile-file dumps it in the cwd .. it would actually be useful to dump it into the asdf location heh 15:39:58 3b: perfekt! thank you for the link! 15:41:01 does system mean "collection of packages" ....? 15:41:07 <|3b|> no 15:41:18 <|3b|> a system is a group of files + dependency information 15:41:19 ok... 15:41:52 <|3b|> a 'package' in CL is just a mapping of strings to symbols, similar to what many languages call a 'namespace' 15:42:09 <|3b|> 'package' in CL has nothing to do with files 15:42:36 -!- aerique_ [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:43:14 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.109.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:32 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.161.237] has joined #lisp 15:43:58 that might be the reason why it took me quite long to manage to succesfully "use" a package. 15:44:52 'package' in YOUR CL might have nothing to do with files. The build system I'm using right now maps from package names to file names in order to build a dependency tree for which files to build in which order. 15:45:38 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:45:40 nyef: you're doing that now? Exciting! Tell me more! 15:46:04 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:47:01 so does cl never resolve the dependencies by itself ...? 15:47:01 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:35 <|3b|> rillo: packages exist at runtime, so ad nyef suggested you can process them to infer dependencies 15:47:44 <|3b|> there is nothing in the CL spec itself to do that though 15:47:49 so that there is dependency between cl and package maintainer... :-) 15:47:59 nyef: I remember seeing something like that years ago. Are you making one? 15:49:11 I've been running it for a while. Looks like the initial commit of the build system was April 2. 15:49:15 thats quite a hurdle if one starts to use packages with cl, i fear 15:49:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:49:46 Really hasn't needed much tweaking since. 15:49:47 <|3b|> rillo: again, 'package' is just a namespace in CL 15:50:06 <|3b|> rillo: you have no choice about using them 15:50:36 yes, i understand. its just a hashtable. 15:50:42 nyef: how's it work? Do you have it up anywhere? 15:50:42 Basically, it treats package names with a particular prefix as mapping to file names. The first form in each file is a CL:DEFPACKAGE form, and it can parse that to find more packages to load. 15:51:36 <|3b|> rillo: dealing with 'systems' is pretty easy if you use quicklisp, since it handles downloading and compiling dependencies for most of the popular CL libraries (and a lot of less popular ones) 15:51:40 So the first step is to grovel the files starting from an initial set of package names, producing an unordered dependency graph. 15:52:28 Sort it into a usable order by using depth-first search on each node not already part of the sorted list. 15:52:51 Map over the sorted nodes doing a compile-file and load. 15:52:56 And that's basically it. 15:53:18 wc tells me that it's 132 lines of source for the build system. 15:54:21 3b: i already discovered quicklisp an use it with ubuntu and cygwin. its great. 15:54:26 now you just need a makedepends analogue 15:54:42 so you don't have to guess which files depend on what 15:54:49 ... why? The information is explicit at the top of each file. 15:55:26 (That is, each file starts with a DEFPACKAGE specifying its immediate dependencies.) 15:55:52 <|3b|> nyef: does it handle dependencies that aren't :USEd? 15:56:39 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.10.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:56:44 -!- rillo [~patrick@p549648F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:58:06 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.2] has joined #lisp 15:58:26 Radium [~carbon@117.203.16.167] has joined #lisp 15:58:32 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:47 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:27 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:38 nyef_ [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:39 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-232-9.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 Hunh. Got disconnected a while ago. Damnit. 16:03:40 |3b|: It handles :USE, :IMPORT-FROM, and :SHADOWING-IMPORT-FROM. 16:03:51 Dependencies on other systems are loaded explicitly before we do the dependency-based loading, and house rules forbid using a package prefix for packages internal to the system unless the package is at least mentioned in the DEFPACKAGE form. 16:04:11 It handles :USE, :IMPORT-FROM, and :SHADOWING-IMPORT-FROM. 16:04:11 Dependencies on other systems are loaded explicitly before we do the dependency-based loading, and house rules forbid using a package prefix for packages internal to the system unless the package is at least mentioned in the DEFPACKAGE form. 16:04:11 (If you need a package to be loaded, but don't want to bring the symbols into the package being defined, just use an :IMPORT-FROM without specifying symbols.) 16:04:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:11 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-094-218-033-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:11 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-094-218-033-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:12 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-232-9.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:12 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.161.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:12 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:04:41 paul0 [~paul0@200.175.62.106.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:04:43 <|3b|> yeah, empty import-from doesn't sound too bad 16:04:52 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:05:04 *|3b|* would probably just try to READ the file and catch package errors instead though 16:05:14 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.237] has joined #lisp 16:05:28 I READ the file to get the defpackage form and just parse it. 16:05:43 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:05:53 It's CL:DEFPACKAGE and then all keywords and strings, so fairly easy to deal with. 16:06:16 <|3b|> right, i'm just saying i'd check the whole file for packages, since i'd probably forget to add the import by hand 16:06:48 <|3b|> if i were implementing something similar 16:07:24 That's less of a problem when all of your package names are a minimum of 14 characters long, and typically longer. 16:07:54 <|3b|> yeah, in that case the local-nicknames would probably make the dependencies obvious again from just the defpackage :) 16:08:06 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:08:45 Shortest package name in the system looks to be 20 characters long. 16:09:21 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.195.230] has joined #lisp 16:09:33 how many files, and what's the typical file size? 16:10:08 There's also a marked preference towards files shorter than 512 lines, with only a couple really exceeding that (one of which is permitted to exceed the base limits freely, and one of which is in desperate need of refactoring.) 16:10:47 sounds pretty neat 16:11:42 And I'm currently seeing 58 files. 16:12:19 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:12:24 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 16:13:08 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:14 Longest package name is 50 characters. 16:13:43 what's a lot of packages :) 16:14:00 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.111] has joined #lisp 16:14:14 inching towards smalltalk-like granularity? 16:14:51 Umm... A couple of the files don't show up in the normal system, they're for things like setting up the database schema. 16:15:09 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.16.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:15:19 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:17 *|3b|* needs to figure out how to break up my parenscript files better 16:16:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:17:09 setekhid [~setekhid@223.65.8.162] has joined #lisp 16:17:11 *sykopomp* is also doing 1-package-per-file, has 33 files totaling ~3.5kloc. 16:17:56 8281 loc here, according to wc. 16:18:08 I used sloccount. 16:18:37 Only program I have in my path beginning with "slo" is "slogin". (-: 16:18:42 nyef_: is your buildsystem somewhere so i can try it out? 16:19:10 nikodemus: Nope. It's basically a one-off for the company I'm building this software for at this point. 16:19:34 gotcha 16:20:26 Still, shouldn't take too long to recreate, even just based on the description I have here. 16:21:20 true enough 16:21:34 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A2433.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:44 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:56 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-233-56-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:03 -!- treyka [~treyka@ip-188-118-20-209.reverse.destiny.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:25:28 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:31:19 Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-158-239.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 16:31:37 It is hoped by me that Passive Voice Day be celebrated by the inhabitants of #lisp! 16:33:02 Radium [~carbon@117.203.16.167] has joined #lisp 16:34:00 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.2] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:34:29 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:35:13 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 16:35:24 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 16:36:19 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:15 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.249] has joined #lisp 16:38:08 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:38:14 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.24.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:24 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:40:30 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.2] has joined #lisp 16:40:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:40:46 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41:05 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 16:42:03 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 16:43:15 am i mistaken, or is CLSQLs idea of reading symbols into the _current_ *package*, rather than the definition package of a view, a bit unhelpful? 16:43:28 if i change package, case fails because the symbols are now interned in cl-user, for example 16:45:39 its not just the build system, but you will want to re-create the machinery to plug it into swank, display compiler notes and go to their source location etc 16:47:19 maxm: what? 16:48:57 sykopomp: was related to above conversation nyef had about his build system 16:49:10 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:12 if he's compiling+loading the file itself and uses defpackage, you don't need to touch slime at all. 16:50:48 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:51:24 well.. for some reason I imagining this type of setup (file per package) will result in lots of files and lots of packages (kind of like java) 16:52:35 java, python, erlang, haskell, smalltalk (kinda), and a ton of other languages. 16:52:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:52:46 not that bad, but if you have to manually C-c C-k 10 files in the right order, defeats the whole purpose of auto dependency groveling and such.. ie you changed com.whatever.helpers.useful-macros package, then have to remember to c-c c-k everything that uses it, I tohught whole idea is that everytihng that uses it gets rebuilt automatically 16:53:04 xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:26 that's the purpose of a build system, yes. 16:53:45 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-178-88.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:57 what nyef did is different from asdf in that the dependencies are determined not by a single tree in a definition file, but by the headers of individual files. 16:54:08 -!- Kryztof [~user@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:19 well thats why I said it needs to plug into slime, to have dependency highlighting and such.. Coz CL way of displaying errors (as form number in a file) is not supported by default by Emacs compile-mode 16:54:47 s/dependency highlighting/compiler warnings highlighting and folllowing/ 16:55:09 iiuc, that's not related to asdf at all. 16:55:36 implementations and slime do that through stuff like COMPILE and LOAD 16:56:31 For the most part, we don't get build errors, because we sort them out in local development before checking into source control. 16:56:44 or you can just be awesome and not have build errors, yeah :\ 16:56:59 nyef_: so for majority of development you just C-c C-c and C-c C-k? 16:57:43 no matter how much I try, having stuff compile right and work from the first try is usually a pleasent surprise :-) 16:57:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:10 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 16:58:21 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:37 nyef_: btw what industry you doing this in? seen you mention app server before 16:59:00 not trying to get any prop info, just kind of interesting to see people doing actual production stuff 17:00:23 Mobile e-commerce, actually. 17:00:58 vague and intriguing.. "you should blog about it" 17:01:34 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:01:47 benny` [~benny@i577A2433.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:31 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-100-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:12:55 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:13:39 meiji11 [~mark@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:41 maxm: Backing up a bit, yes, most development is C-c C-k and C-c C-c. Occasionally I'll hit C-d in the primary REPL to force a full reload of the system. When a series of commits is ready to go live on the server, it's a git push, connect to the server, git pull, update the database if necessary, and hit C-d on the server REPL. 17:16:41 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 17:17:04 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-158-239.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:17:22 <|3b|> C-d ? 17:17:32 EOF 17:17:45 <|3b|> ak, kill it and let something restart it? 17:17:52 Yup. There's a nanny script. 17:18:32 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:34 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:50 Recent changes include that sending a SIGTERM to the lisp process will cause the lisp process to quit and the nanny script to not restart it, and to provide a pidfile so that an init.d script would know which process to kill. 17:21:57 -!- guymann [~charles@64-252-121-252.adsl.snet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:22:25 now thats job security for whoever wrote the machinery :-) 17:22:43 Oh? 17:23:01 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:23:42 on my last job such custom scripts grew into a holy tree of ksh scripts that did everything from housekeeping, to backups, setting up / dropping users etc... Was a mess to go through it when guy who developed it retired 17:23:47 Ah, yes, and part of the sigterm handling also includes the hooks to clean up stray files, write out log messages, and so on. 17:24:03 Ah. 17:24:08 nyef_: you're not using sb-daemon by any chance? 17:24:17 nikodemus: ... no. No, I'm not. 17:24:47 Am I about to start kicking myself for not knowing about something that does pretty much exactly what I've just spent too much time doing? 17:24:58 nyef_: daemontools? 17:25:11 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.211] has joined #lisp 17:25:19 https://github.com/nikodemus/sb-daemon/blob/master/daemon.lisp#L27 17:25:26 there is no shame in spending time if its billed 17:25:58 Oh, not like this. The server runs in a screen session. 17:26:41 I reflected SIGTERM to an fd-handler by way of signalfd(). 17:27:01 this is a job for ... 17:27:05 systemd, our superhero :) 17:27:13 Yea, systemd is pretty awesome. :) 17:27:27 It'd be even awesomer if everything used it already. 17:28:28 Okay, on the whole, nothing said in the past five minutes invalidates the machinery that I'm currently using, so I'm happy. (-: 17:28:52 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 17:29:01 :) 17:30:40 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 17:33:50 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:53 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:23 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:37:38 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:39:56 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:41:05 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:41:31 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:01 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:17 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.211] has joined #lisp 17:45:33 -!- setekhid [~setekhid@223.65.8.162] has left #lisp 17:46:46 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 17:48:31 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Client Quit] 17:50:23 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 17:51:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.2] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:54:47 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:55:02 -!- kaol_ is now known as kaol 17:56:42 replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-133.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 17:58:10 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 17:58:18 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:50 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:03 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:09:35 S11001001 [~sirian@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:35 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:09:35 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 18:14:53 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:04 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 18:19:43 how to alter dynamic environment for the lparallel *kernel*? 18:20:37 it's said to see bordeaux-threads:*default-special-bindings* 18:21:03 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 18:21:20 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:21:23 "said" ? 18:21:37 This variable may be rebound around calls to MAKE-THREAD to add/alter default bindings. 18:21:43 said here, sorry: http://lparallel.org/api/kernel/ 18:21:54 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:25 it's very unclear to me how to alter the dynamic bindings of threads you want to create 18:23:14 dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has joined #lisp 18:23:17 (lp:submit-task channel (lambda () (pmonitor queue))) 18:23:24 I will continue using that technique meanwhile 18:24:28 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:45 what do you want to do ? 18:26:07 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 18:27:45 (let ((bt:*default-special-bindings* `((*standard-output* ,*standard-output*) ,@bt:*default-special-bindings*))) .. start your threads ...) 18:28:02 threads will have value of standard-output bound locally to same one as calling thread 18:28:07 similarly for the rest 18:28:21 eek 18:28:31 use acons or pairlis 18:28:46 well wrap into your own fancy stuff 18:29:29 and there's already a mistake there, *d-s-b* expects an alist 18:29:31 yea verify if pairs are lists or conses too, coz I dont remember 18:30:10 fe[nl]ix: meant to be pseudo-code, as there are many variants of default-special-bindings.. some do eval, some don't etc 18:31:19 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 18:32:45 actually bt: does eval 18:34:34 -!- dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:46 dca [~user@178.252.127.251] has joined #lisp 18:36:38 yeah, I wrote that 18:38:18 -!- theos is now known as Guest90170 18:38:50 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:41:27 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:41:35 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 18:41:43 -!- Guest90170 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:44:11 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 18:48:47 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 18:49:11 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 18:49:31 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:09 booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:22 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 18:53:47 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:54:09 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:56:22 mucker [~harsha@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 18:57:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:58:08 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:59:02 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:01:41 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:03 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has joined #lisp 19:04:59 -!- mucker [~harsha@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:05:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:08:34 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 19:11:50 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 19:12:27 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-6.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:12:36 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:13:27 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:04 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 19:14:53 the lambda trick looks easier to read to me just now, though 19:16:44 What's the best way to append an element to a list? I guess it's not fast but I want it for prototyping 19:17:10 (cons element list) 19:17:12 fast, best 19:17:18 "Best" is subjective, but have you looked at APPEND ? 19:19:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 19:19:58 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 19:20:10 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.111] has joined #lisp 19:20:45 stassats: oh, I forgot to say that the element should go to the end 19:20:51 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has quit [Client Quit] 19:21:22 huangjs [~huangjs@190.8.100.83] has joined #lisp 19:21:22 sepi: if it's a lot of appends, use cons then flip the list 19:23:11 p_l: hmm, I've thought of this too but ill eventuall replace this with an array so it does not have to be efficient 19:23:13 I'm in favor of (let ((foo (cons nil nil))) (setf (car foo) foo)), then using (setf (car ...) (push new-value (cadr ...)). The current list is always available on the cdr, and it's always built in order with low overhead. 19:23:23 I guess I'll just use nconc 19:24:02 sepi: arrays in lisp are quite different in use from lists, so why not start with an array in the beginning... or write a more generic code where you can swap the data structure? 19:24:48 p_l: yeah, it would be nice to just have something like python sequences 19:25:07 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 19:25:13 I'm basically just too lazy to replace an append with a direct assignment 19:25:51 and wondered if there is no easy way to just push to the back of a list 19:28:14 I'm in favor of vector-push-extend, myself 19:28:34 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:29:17 Yeah, V-P-E is nice when you're working with a known-adjustable vector. 19:30:30 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:30:46 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:49 dlowe: yeah, I'll eventually use that :P 19:31:10 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:08 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:19 sepi: nconc or setf+append is the "easy way to just push to the bask of a list". It's just very inefficient. 19:33:19 JordiGH [~jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH] has joined #lisp 19:33:52 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-236-198.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:53 oconnore: yeah, but I just noticed that I can't nconc nils into a list 19:34:12 like (setf L (list)) (nconc L (list nil)) 19:34:14 Does Peter Seibel hang out here or in IRC? I want to send him some money over paypal for a pdf of his book. I don't want to register to Amazon.com or similar nor use a credit card. 19:34:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:35:18 JordiGH: maybe gigamonkey_ ? 19:35:34 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-149-149.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:36:07 ... Isn't PCL available in pdf for free anyway? 19:36:14 Or is that no longer the case? 19:36:18 nyef_: No, only the HTML. 19:36:44 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-119-175.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:36:46 sepi: thanks, I guess I'll email him. I was just hoping for more "real time" interaction. :-) 19:36:48 *JordiGH* is impatient. 19:36:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:42 nyef_: it's available on my hard disc 19:39:01 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-236-198.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39:01 stassats: it's available on my hard desk 19:40:09 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-226-120.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:50 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.175.62.106.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:34 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:41:46 Ah, I found a pdf. 19:42:00 Now to find a paypal target... 19:42:17 Ok, I now just use a 2d array without appending because it's not necessary. It also makes my code shorter :) 19:42:31 but is it clearer? 19:43:58 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-149-149.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:44:20 stassats: yes :) 19:47:17 paul0 [~paul0@189.115.60.47] has joined #lisp 19:50:12 I'd also like to say that I like iterate. Thank you author of iterate! 19:50:22 -!- JordiGH [~jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH] has left #lisp 19:51:33 -!- rson_ is now known as rson 19:52:20 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-22-50.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:22 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-137-26.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:52 *stassats* doesn't like iterate 19:55:13 -!- aperture is now known as mnemonicide 19:55:24 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-226-120.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:12 stassats: maybe it's just the well structured documentation 19:57:11 not for technical reasons, i just like LOOP and it's enough for me, but some people use iterate and i'm forced to learn it if i want to read/modify their code 19:57:50 -!- nyef_ [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 19:57:58 just like zsh ^^ 19:58:17 you mean just like bash? 19:59:47 yeah 20:00:05 at least it's possible to do some real work in bash :P 20:00:20 is it? 20:00:46 totally 20:01:17 my zsh sessions disagree 20:01:51 zsh vs. bash holy war, just what we needed 20:02:13 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 20:02:39 well I'm sure I would like zsh if I gave it a chance. I just don't like the idea of having to cope with bash when I'm on another computer and I'm used to zsh 20:05:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:05:15 My favorite post on this subject -> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3231686262094385@naggum.net.html 20:05:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:07:03 Oladon_work [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:16 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:09:50 -!- ASau` [~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:41 ASau` [~user@95-25-227-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:12:24 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:13:08 dekuked [~user@mail.kesnermorrissey.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:57 i never knew guy who wrote it, but I hate him 20:14:35 maxm: Rather strong emotion for someone you never knew. 20:14:45 and is deceased. 20:14:47 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:10 bah... 20:15:21 he ruined a good sarcastic joke by writing wall of text 20:15:39 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 20:15:58 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:16:19 also yea hate was wrong word.. I meant dislike his style of writing 20:17:03 -!- impulse32_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442426.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:20 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442426.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:18:16 -!- strange_ [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:19:12 maxm: No clue what you are talking about and I really don't care. I like that post because it's apropos to the dozen people per day that come in here and ask about Lisp -vs- __________ 20:19:50 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:07 Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has joined #lisp 20:20:16 I personally think "10 underscores" is a great programming language. 20:20:20 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:36 I think it could be a bit more punctuation-heavy 20:20:38 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:52 At least it doesn't have any parentheses, those are so hard to read. 20:22:41 would someone mind reposting the link? 20:22:53 minion: logs? 20:22:54 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 20:22:55 <_8david> woah, careful here. Erik's 5121 articles are required reading for anyone partipating in this channel. Once you've read through all of them, you can say that you "dislike his style", if indeed you then still think that. 20:22:56 ThomasH: sorry no insult intended, its a nice observation on human nature.. I just personally dislike when trying to google-fu about x vs y, skipping these kind of "all is vanity" esseys gets tiring 20:23:17 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:23:30 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:23:41 Naggum is the original Toxic Lisper 20:24:02 *maxm* has a feeling he stepped into it.. guess guy was some kind of super-elder disciple of mccarty or something, sorry, I repent 20:24:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:23 and you're a metatoxic one? 20:24:40 maxm: No insult taken. You should try a different tact with those types of searches. X vs y probably seems too ambiguous. 20:25:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:25:30 adeht: I don't know. Whatever the good kind of toxic is. 20:25:55 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-243-177.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:12 Of the Naggum posts I've read, he was out of line on occassion. But, I've always respected feedback from toxic people. You just have to keep your own emotions under control and filter out the constructive part from the vitriol. 20:27:08 Polite people are often too polite to point out the elephant in the room. 20:27:38 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-241-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:41 itym, filter out the boring parts from the hilarious parts 20:27:44 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:27:53 Does anyone have any experience with iolib, or other network programming in lisp? 20:28:05 jack_rabbit: ask your question. 20:28:08 pointing at elephants can get you referred to HR :-) 20:28:14 don't ask to ask, etc. 20:28:25 makes sense. 20:28:44 0: (CCL::+-2 0 NIL) 20:28:51 I'm trying to figure out how to send packets over a raw socket using iolib. 20:28:54 how do I figure out what's causing that debugger trace? 20:29:02 So far, I have no idea. 20:29:04 I'm not using +-2 myself 20:29:10 The documentation is skimpy. 20:29:25 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:29:50 jack_rabbit: did you download iolib from git repository ? 20:29:52 dim: well there should be full backtrace, eventually in the middle of it you'll find your code calling something 20:30:05 dim: from the look of it, you used NIL where you wanted zero 20:30:14 yes just the next one but it's not precise enough for me 20:30:18 dim: Go back and read the error message. 20:30:22 or I'm missing some basic usage of the debugger 20:30:27 value NIL is not of the expected type NUMBER. 20:30:29 not helping 20:30:37 go to previous frame 20:30:39 press v 20:30:40 I have a dozin NIL values in the stack 20:30:42 jack_rabbit: from a quick look at the docs it seems that sockets:send-to is what you need 20:30:46 fe[nl]ix: I installed it using quicklisp. I have access to the iolib: package, and have tried several make-socket calls 20:30:50 it should go to exact source line the +-2 was called from 20:30:52 maxm: that's where I have a dozen NIL values 20:30:58 That tells you that you are passing a nil value to a function that expects a only numbers. 20:31:05 those are all local variables 20:31:09 try pressing v 20:31:12 the exact line where v leads me is 20:31:13 (loop for (times executes all min max avg outliers) in timings 20:31:15 sepi: I agree, but I can't figure out how to generate the raw socket type that I need. 20:31:35 but that might just be because it's the first line of the defun? 20:31:37 sepi: i.e. handmade packet headers. 20:31:42 jack_rabbit: what OS are you using ? 20:31:58 jack_rabbit: you want to write the ip header yourself? 20:32:19 fe[nl]ix: linux 3.2 20:32:22 ok 20:32:25 sepi: yes 20:32:26 dim: it will be in the code after it.. Guess CCL source location thing is no better the SBCL, in fact SBCL one will show you inside of (loop) 20:32:39 dim: it will be later, when you try to do some arithmetic with these timings 20:32:40 download the git repository if you want raw sockets, and also CFFI from git 20:33:06 jack_rabbit: you could also look at libpcap bindings 20:33:06 I'm doing sum.collect/minimize/maximize/count etc 20:33:07 dim: try doing (assert x) for everything you think should be a number 20:33:11 collecting stats 20:33:22 dim: ok, then one of your stats is nil 20:33:33 jack_rabbit: https://github.com/sionescu/iolib.git and https://github.com/cffi/cffi.git 20:33:54 plokami looks kind of cute in fact. 20:34:02 I added some format debug and it seems I found it thx 20:34:03 you can either use sum (or stat 0) or if it should not be nil, then add do (assert stat) before, and that will tell you which one 20:34:11 I would have hoped to find it straight from the debugger 20:34:15 H4ns: RIGHT! I forgot about that. I tried to use libpcap at first, but couldn't get it installed. I believe it's in quicklisp, though, isn't it? 20:34:17 but it wasn't easy to spot 20:34:27 fe[nl]ix: Thanks, but I already have iolib installed. 20:34:32 CLBENCH::TIMINGS = (NIL (10000 ("execute foo(1)" "execute foo(2)" "execute foo(3)") 3775900.0 233.0 69816.0 377.59 ...)) 20:34:37 I guess I can see it here 20:34:38 dim: try compiling with (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) thats what I do and it helps a bit in sbcl 20:34:55 jack_rabbit: don't know. i've just skimmed the plokami source and found it rather well organized ans straightforward. can't claim to have used it, though. 20:35:01 jack_rabbit: the one in quicklisp does not have support for raw sockets 20:35:06 jack_rabbit: the quicklips and git versions of iolib are quite different. He's saying the current quicklisp version of iolib does not support raw sockets. 20:35:14 maxm: it seems like I had the evidence but wasn't looking right at it 20:35:26 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:27 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:45 yea happens.. /me uses defensive programming a lot... Under SBCL declaring the types catches it sometimes 20:35:57 H4ns: That's great. It's what I wanted to use originally, because all of my C coding was done through libpcap. Quicklisp is loading up PLOKAMI right now. 20:36:47 fe[nl]ix: I've tried loading the git version, but had no success. I'm inexperienced at integrating code from other developers when it comes to lisp. 20:36:59 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:57 mmm it seems to boil down to misuse of &optional and &key in a defun 20:42:41 asvil [~asvil@178.121.228.226] has joined #lisp 20:48:15 dim: you know about &optional (idx 0) to give var default value if not passed right? 20:48:44 I didn't, thanks, will try that tomorrow 20:49:15 I shouldn't be trying that kind of new things (for me) and do parallel stuff at the same time... 20:49:18 gn 20:49:31 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:12 nah its fine.. not everyone can't be maxwell, world needs faraday's too 20:51:42 *maxm* is of the same bent, learning best by doing and asking around 20:53:12 maxm: that's hillarious 20:53:59 lol caught me furiously googling to figure out if I made fool of myself 20:54:17 :D 20:54:28 coz somehow in my mind it was faraday playing with magnets coz they were cool, and maxwell later using that to derive the equasions 20:55:18 Basically, faraday came up with some cool equations, and maxwell came along later and was like, fuck you and ampere and some other guys. I have more complete descriptions based on your equations. 20:56:24 So now faraday's law is one of the maxwell equations. 20:57:56 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:58:09 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:58:17 How do I "switch" into a package so I don't have to prefix my function calls with (package-name: 20:58:49 (in-package :package-name) 20:58:58 maxm: thanks 20:59:02 or actually you want to use it in your package 20:59:19 (use-package :package-name) when doing it ad-hoc 20:59:25 I've never constructed a package. 20:59:32 Or really even know much about them. 20:59:40 or (defpackage :my-package (:use :cl :other-package)), then (in-package :my-package) 21:00:29 interesting. 21:00:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:00:51 What exactly is the function of a package? Like a namespace in C++? 21:00:59 jack_rabbit: yeah 21:01:02 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-094-218-033-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:01:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:01:13 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:38 its complicated and old-fashioned.. its mostly like a namespace, except rather then giving you conflict resolution only when you use it 21:01:55 it resolves the conflicts when you declare your package 21:02:04 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-187248.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:02:08 which can be annoying if 2 or more packages export a common word 21:02:12 I was just going to ask that. How does conflict resolution work? 21:03:33 to fight it there is :shadow and :shadowing-import-from options of defpackage. First one makes your own symbol override any of the USE'd packages, and 2nd one selects which package to import from, when >1 USE'd packages export same symbols 21:04:24 The overridden functions are still accessible with the package prefix, though, right? 21:04:26 <|3b|> you can also use :IMPORT-FROM to only import specific symbols, which avoids problems when later versions of a library you use add features and export more symbols 21:04:42 jack_rabbit: it signals an error, usually providing a restart to select select one of the alternatives.. Ie if you do (use-package :a) and then (use-package :b) and both export "foobar", the 2nd use-package will signal such error 21:06:13 <|3b|> importing specific symbols also avoids the problem of stepping on symbols you didn't realize were exported from some library you use 21:07:25 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 21:07:56 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:08:44 jack_rabbit: it is also possible to just prefix the symbols that you use from other packages. i find that it makes code easier to read, because all bare symbols are either from cl or from the local package 21:08:51 jack_rabbit: also, i never have conflicts. 21:09:51 *|3b|* uses that strategy too 21:10:18 H4ns: I also prefer to do this. It just bugs me when I have to write foo:foo-bar because of the redundency 21:10:38 *|3b|* tends to name things as if they would be used with the prefix 21:10:39 movie quote "how does it feel" "have you ever tried to swim while wearing shoes?" 21:11:00 which version of sbcl has the with syntax trick? 21:11:02 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:06 |3b|: me too 21:11:25 -!- Sgeo [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:33 <|3b|> maxm: you mean the package::(...) syntax? 21:11:37 yea 21:11:39 |3b|: the problem is that I also don't want to create too many packages. So I'm often in a dilemma 21:11:40 Sgeo_ [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:42 the latest has it 21:11:59 H4ns: Yeah, that seems like a much better way to handle things when you use multiple packages. 21:12:19 sepi: what bothers you about many packages? 21:12:20 it just rebinds *package* inside right, its not like that macro that actually walks the &body and does smart resolution? 21:12:27 sepi: i have one for each file. 21:12:47 <|3b|> looks like 1.0.55 was the first release with it 21:13:02 I only :use packages that contain ubiquitous functions 21:13:12 H4ns: hmm, yeah, I'm not so sure yet what bothers me. Maybe that I'd like some kind of parent package for each library which then contains many packages 21:13:13 why has :: been chosen? : would be nicer and compatible to allegro 21:13:21 Lisp is so robust anyway, I was using the thinking I've come to have after years of "using namespace std;" so I don't have to prefix a 4 character cout with a 5 character std:: 21:13:25 sepi: but why? 21:13:50 and, well, the "custom :CL package" stuff also does :use :) 21:14:07 H4ns: because I like the idea to be able to find stuff in new libraries easily 21:14:17 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:14:20 <|3b|> maxm: something similar to binding *package* if i remember right, but not exactly that due to package locks 21:14:21 H4ns: I like how python handles this 21:14:35 sepi: ah, ok. that i understand. 21:15:10 H4ns: I might just call my packages library.package but and then create an alias to package 21:18:49 Btw, I've been writing some more procedural code in cl lately and it bothered me that when I use let* and create some bindings, then want do something for effect and continue to create bindings I have to insert another let*. Can I avoid this? 21:19:16 *|3b|* sometimes just adds a junk binding for that 21:19:55 sepi to me it suggests that I should factor the code differently 21:19:58 <|3b|> i'd probably try to avoid needing either though 21:19:58 |3b|: hmm, not very nice but why not 21:20:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:20:24 the key to "right" way of handling it is to do resolution at read time, not import time 21:20:38 adeht: yeah that's what I was thinking too. It reminds me of the difference between C98 and c)) 21:20:41 c)) 21:20:45 ahhh, c99 21:20:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:21:02 sepi, I think you meant C89 21:21:12 yeah ^^ 21:21:13 the budden/RG thread on c.l.l had the basic implementation, altho guy's code is very unpolished 21:21:38 requires custom reader intercepting basically all characters to implement portably tho 21:22:35 and you'll have to start all your files with some variant of (in-readtable) or #.(each-file-setup-header) type thing 21:25:05 sepi, in fact I get suspicious already when I think that I need LET*... then I consider making another function 21:28:12 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 21:29:02 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:32 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:33 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:29:50 adeht: yeah, I should write more functions. But it's so difficult to generate good names :( 21:30:11 I found that easier when programming in "oo" languages 21:30:13 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:18 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:30:53 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:31:11 the naming tends to become easier and more consistent. Allthough I also think that this object verb model does not fit on most problems 21:32:39 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@2.49.66.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:12 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:01 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:50 Apparently I have to use byte vectors for injecting packets. I'm not sure what I'm doing. I've created a byte vector with make-shareable-byte-vector, but how do I write to it, and do I have to deallocate it? It seems very c-ish, the whole byte-buffer idea. 21:35:30 jack_rabbit: aref 21:35:51 jack_rabbit: are you sure that you don't need (make-array :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) ? 21:36:29 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:51 H4ns: make-shareable-byte-vector seems to be a wrap-around function for that. Anyway, the plokami reference specifically requested the function I used 21:36:57 jack_rabbit: sorry, forget this. I don't know what I'm talking about 21:37:07 jack_rabbit: ah, ok. 21:37:26 jack_rabbit: ared should be right. and deallocate i would not assume. 21:37:30 when I print the variable holding the byte-vector I get #(0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0) 21:37:39 jack_rabbit: that looks good. 21:37:53 I thought so, but now what? 21:37:54 jack_rabbit: i.e. that is what a byte vector looks like :) 21:38:03 :D I hoped so. 21:38:12 jack_rabbit: now (setf (aref the-vector 0) 20) 21:38:28 jack_rabbit: or (aref the-vector 20) to read it. 21:38:37 jack_rabbit: looks clunky? sure, it is :) 21:39:16 Sweet! 21:39:36 It's not much more clunky than writing to arrays in C. 21:39:36 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.111] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:39:44 Guest32400 [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 21:39:51 just slightly so 21:40:16 jack_rabbit: How would you access an array for a raw socket otherwise? 21:40:28 that's just the abstraction level you're on 21:40:31 Perhaps. It's nice not dealing with offsets, though. 21:40:37 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:40:47 sepi: Yeah, I'm not complaining. I love this stuff. 21:41:15 FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:17 jack_rabbit: I was just asking. It might have been that you had something in your mind I was missing :P 21:42:23 :) ahh. Naw, I think byte-buffers seem to be the only way. I just didn't expect such low-level access in lisp. Everything seems unbelievably cleverly abstracted. 21:42:50 -!- Guest32400 [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:54 jack_rabbit: use type-of btw to get the type of something unknow 21:42:55 n 21:43:11 jack_rabbit: well the byte-vectors are garbage collected, so there is that :) 21:43:19 H4ns: So each element is a decimal representation of the data within that byte? 21:43:33 jasom: That's really good to know. No deallocation needed. 21:43:38 but it turns out to write useful software, at some point you need to move a bunch of bytes around 21:43:38 jack_rabbit: yes, by default, numbers are printed to the base of 10 21:43:57 Is there some way to change that? I usually write packets in Hex. 21:44:02 jack_rabbit: you can set *print-base* 21:44:12 jack_rabbit: or better yet, bind it around the form that prints the stuff. 21:44:21 jack_rabbit: on the repl, it can get confusing. 21:44:27 (let ((*print-base* 16)) 21:44:31 (let ((*print-base* 16) (print my-vector)) 21:44:45 er I missed a paren 21:44:49 great! 21:44:52 (let ((*print-base* 16)) (print my-vector)) 21:45:17 I hate gushing, but lisp really is such a cool language. 21:45:26 :D 21:45:40 (write my-vector :radix 16) 21:45:49 base, rather 21:45:59 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:16 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@75.Red-88-7-128.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:46:47 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:44 Is there some easy way to write numbers in hex as well? 21:47:58 #x16 21:48:18 so Bx16 = 11? 21:48:24 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 21:48:52 looks more like 22 21:48:56 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.121.228.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:49:02 stassats`: he means #xB 21:49:09 ahhh. 21:49:14 madnificent: does he? 21:49:20 jack_rabbit: do you? 21:49:24 I couldn't tell if the hash was real, or a wildcard. 21:49:29 hahaha 21:49:32 Yes I meand #xB 21:49:42 XD 21:49:50 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:01 wildcard? like on twitter or something? 21:50:12 more like oldschool DOS * 21:50:23 wasn't that called a wildcard? 21:50:25 * 21:50:36 it is, but i've never seen a # wildcard 21:51:00 right, but hash # also means "number" 21:51:05 like phone # 21:51:27 glad that you two could work it out! :) 21:51:28 so I thought maybe you meant #x16 -> "number-goes-here"x16 21:52:18 stassats`: i seem to recall it being used as a wildcard for numbers somewhere in a windows application (so that's more than 6 years ago) 21:52:48 just when you thought the horse was dead, madnificent pulled out his stick! 21:53:08 :D 21:53:18 H4ns: don't you talk about my pony! don't you dare call it a horse! 21:53:23 H4ns: he pulled a wild card 21:53:31 XD 21:53:44 a spreadsheet (I think excel) used to use # to represent a digit in the templates for outputting numbers so ####.## would print out e.g. 1234.56 21:53:48 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:08 jasom: Yeah, I remember that one. 21:55:31 Guest32400 [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 21:56:13 rk[imposter] [~karason@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 21:56:18 -!- _8david [~user@port-92-195-60-72.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:56:52 -!- Guest32400 is now known as X-Scale 21:56:57 in CLISP/CLOSS do objects share a namespace with fns/variables ? 21:57:34 CLOS* 21:57:43 objects have no namespace 21:57:52 and it's called Common Lisp, not CLISP 21:58:04 commonly abbreviated as CL 21:58:41 perhaps you're talking about classes, yes, you can have a function, a class and a variable with the same name 21:59:08 rk[imposter]: there are two namespaces, one for functions one for variables (technically it's more complex, but that's the 101) 21:59:22 technically, it's not true 21:59:30 -!- gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey_] 22:00:53 and not technically, just not true 22:01:54 packages, classes, variables, functions all have their own name spaces. and there is more, i think :) 22:02:05 blocks, catch tags 22:02:11 oh boy LOLOLOL. 22:02:12 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 22:02:21 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d013cdd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:30 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:02:43 restarts 22:03:05 so saying common lisp has two namespaces is downright wrong :) 22:03:14 p_l: you're wrong. 22:03:20 :) 22:03:30 p_l: but don't despair, i could be you. 22:03:34 you can also say that there's a name-space for slot names 22:03:46 -!- dekuked [~user@mail.kesnermorrissey.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:04:14 it 22:04:37 what's it? 22:04:42 Kryztof [~user@77-58-246-8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:05:44 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:29 replore__ [~replore@EM117-55-65-136.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 22:08:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:34 -!- replore_ [~replore@EM117-55-65-133.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:12:02 Is gigamonkey the same one who wrote that book? 22:12:08 yes 22:12:18 aaallright! 22:12:29 *gigamonkey* pokes up his head. 22:12:31 He seems like a cool guy. His book is awesome. 22:13:21 So on that note, thank you gigamonkey, for sparking my interest in lisp. 22:13:31 H4ns: heh. I wanted to make a newbie-friendly simplification ;) 22:13:55 jack_rabbit: you're welcome. And happy lisping! 22:14:02 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-067-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:14:23 the simplification would be "CL has separate namespaces for functions and variables, unlike Scheme." 22:14:42 stassats`: true 22:14:56 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-100-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:19 stassats`: sorry wrong buffer 22:15:42 gotta notify the Right Buffer Police 22:16:14 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:16:28 if i were to create an instance of object X called Y, how can i pass the object Y into a function. when i attempt to say (fn Y), i get that Y is not defined as a fn, is there a FN that returns the entire object, not just the slots? 22:16:46 instance of object? how's that? 22:17:01 show some code 22:17:11 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:12 your whole terminology is way off 22:17:19 that damn book 22:17:23 one second 22:17:53 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:17:53 rk[imposter]: can you put a pastebin of what you're talking about up? 22:18:00 DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-121-60.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:27 jasom: a "paste". one puts a "paste" in a "pastebin" 22:18:47 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:19:12 yeah, you better watch out, everything you say should be of utmost correctness 22:19:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:19:15 fe[nl]ix: well he could create his own pastebin that only contains that 22:20:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:20:30 greaver [~jo@41.138.11.188] has joined #lisp 22:20:33 i am writing it up in pastebin as you speak 22:20:56 i'm silent 22:22:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:23:13 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326DA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:38 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:24:46 http://pastebin.com/G5ZKJCEh 22:25:53 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082AE81.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:27:01 are you sure that it does say that? 22:27:54 most likely it says that they're not known variables, which is true, you shouldn't SETQ a variable without first defining it 22:28:04 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-17-204-216.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:28:10 better just to use LET (let ((tasklist (make-instance 'tasklist)) (task (deftask "write tasklist program" "software" 4 nil))) (add-task task tasklist)) 22:29:03 and your indentation is off 22:29:53 also you don't need increment-count, (incf (tasklisk-count tasklist)) should work 22:30:57 <|3b|> might also find PUSH useful 22:31:21 urandom__ [~user@p548A25DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:56 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 22:32:17 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 22:33:45 stumpy [~stumpy@150.101.97.47] has joined #lisp 22:35:39 daedalus_ [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:40 daedalus__ [~daedalus@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:51 -!- stumpy [~stumpy@150.101.97.47] has left #lisp 22:37:30 stumpy [~stumpy@150.101.97.47] has joined #lisp 22:37:44 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:37:50 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 22:38:45 -!- Kryztof [~user@77-58-246-8.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:39:01 Is there a way to select a range of values in a byte-vector short of using loop? 22:39:17 define select 22:39:26 rather, return a sub-section of the byte-vector. 22:39:36 clhs subseq 22:39:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_subseq.htm 22:39:36 subseq 22:39:55 stassats`: thanks for the bots :) 22:40:07 sweet. Is that a new byte vector then, or does it point to the old one? 22:40:22 i avoid using subseq, sequence functions in CL have bounding designates 22:40:25 jack_rabbit: it is new 22:40:36 fe[nl]ix: yrwlcm 22:40:54 s/designates/designators/ 22:41:06 awesome, thanks. 22:41:24 ^thanks to the all of you. i will try those things out. i am new to CLOS so i am not quite sure yet the paradigms for defining objects and mutating them. i am reading off some books and they use setq so i was following that style. i will try using let. 22:42:11 <|3b|> you can also make a displaced array that shares with the original array 22:42:21 btw, it's funny how (some) lispers complain about the performance of displaced arrays, I think I heard scott mckay saying they should be removed from a "future lisp" 22:42:42 i think displaced arrays are great and should be made faster 22:42:58 but for the time being, i'm using simple-arrays whenever i need performance 22:43:06 *jasom* agrees with stassats` 22:43:20 rk[imposter] let creates a local variable, defparameter a (sort of) global one. 22:43:23 and some days ago I read a Go tutorial saying that Go has plain arrays but they're rarely used, on would typically use "slices" 22:43:30 you can use setf to mutate either 22:43:37 which turn out to be displaced arrays :D 22:43:57 in sbcl subseq on a simple-array is often faster than displaced arrays, and just passing around bounds with a simple array is even faster yet 22:44:13 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-187248.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:17 (let ((x 10)) (setf x (* x x)) x) => 100 22:44:26 jasom: yes, I know 22:45:03 I was just pointing out that Google's new "systems" language uses displaced arrays everywhere and nobody cares 22:45:34 well, arrays in CL are quite complex, and it's hard to optimize for each case 22:45:43 true 22:45:49 if you only have one type of arrays, displaced arrays can be just as fast 22:46:10 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-86.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:46:21 i don't want local instances of objects, i want global ones 22:46:29 but in cl there are adjustable, with fill pointers, specialized, and displaced again 22:46:42 rk[imposter]: there's no such thing as a global or a local instance 22:46:51 and objects don't have instances, classes do 22:47:15 classes are metaobjects 22:47:19 rk[imposter] (defparameter *var* (make-instance 'whatever)) 22:47:23 rk[imposter]: if you want a dynamically bound variable use defvar or defparameter 22:47:36 sorry about my terminology. 22:47:37 ** or earmuffs are a convention for "global" vars 22:48:17 okay thanks 22:48:25 anyone have any good references for learning CLOS? 22:48:26 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:48:29 defglobal? 22:48:58 minion: please tell rk[imposter] about Keene 22:48:59 rk[imposter]: please look at Keene: "Object-Oriented Programming in Common Lisp: A Programmer's Guide to CLOS" by Sonya E Keene. http://www.cliki.net/Keene 22:49:32 thank you very much! 22:49:47 minion a bot? 22:49:55 minion: are you abot? 22:49:56 maybe 22:49:59 err 22:50:01 minion: are you a bot? 22:50:02 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 22:50:23 rk[imposter]: so, no 22:50:24 nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has joined #lisp 22:50:33 an old bot 22:51:11 minion: AMOP? 22:51:11 AMOP: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the specification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 22:51:28 let, defparameter setf have nothing to do with CLOS though, it's just basic lisp 22:51:33 for advanced students 22:51:46 CLOS is basic lisp too! 22:51:47 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:16 i actually borrowed AMOP from the library 22:52:19 a few days ago 22:52:23 i haven't read too much yet 22:53:15 -!- mensch_ [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:53:19 it's good to read if you want to implement CLOS (including extending it) 22:53:54 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-14-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:26 rk[imposter]: also check out chapters 16 and 17 of http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 22:54:55 thank you all 22:55:30 LMAO, my code in pastebin was correct 22:55:49 the code i had typed in, put tasklist in a list; (tasklist) 22:55:53 -,- 22:56:04 PCL on CLOS was hard to grasp to me, because i didn't have an intimate experience with any object system in any languages, Keene's book was much more accessible 22:56:26 intesting 22:56:39 *jasom* knew some smalltalk before reading PCL so it was fairly easy for me 22:57:10 i have done work with OO systems in Java and a academic language called Resolve 22:57:25 but never a functional OO system 22:57:51 functional? 22:57:52 CLOS is not functional 22:58:02 fe[nl]ix: well, it works for me! 22:58:52 ^lol 22:59:08 can you elaborate on how Common Lisp Object System is not a functional programming language? 22:59:23 Common Lisp Object System is not a language 22:59:46 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:00:03 Common Lisp is a programming language, but not a functional 23:00:09 and "In computer science, functional programming is a programming paradigm that treats computation as the evaluation of mathematical functions and avoids state and mutable data." <- what of that applies to CLOS? 23:00:09 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@mobile-166-147-098-022.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:25 some might say it's a DSL, notice the #\L :D 23:01:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:01:34 I guess it could be described as functional as part of its design allows you to compose methods in the same manner you can compose functions 23:01:37 object-oriented is kind of opposite of functional, in a sense that instances are mutable, and there is not even a standard copy constructor or such 23:02:09 its possibel to mix the two, but you have to keep separation line in your head as to which part returns copies and which mutate the object tree 23:02:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:02:45 its a response to purely functional style clashing with reality in a consing explosion 23:02:47 maxm: I think in general OO and functional are orthogonal, since you can fairly easily write mutator-free objects 23:02:53 CL is whatever-oriented programming language 23:03:50 well generally its hard, without optimizations like copy on write (ie see Qt) 23:03:50 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 23:03:52 It's "programmer-oriented". 23:04:05 kmee- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 23:04:42 maxm: yes, but really much of common lisp has tension between mutation-free and performance, so CLOS isn't unique in that regard 23:08:22 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:15 rk[imposter], you stepped on the booby prize there, never mention functional programming in this channel, it's an incitement to a flame session 23:11:16 to me purely functional language would be one that had no d-list, on an a-list. 23:11:21 -!- meiji11 [~mark@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11:25 on = only 23:11:53 d-list? 23:11:55 i have some heat resistance 23:11:58 definition list 23:12:07 and association list 23:12:08 what's that? 23:13:53 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@mobile-166-147-098-022.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:13:57 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:58 so the entire "state" of a running lisp program is its definition list. these are functions that the user defines. ex: (defun add1 (this) (+ 1 this)) 23:14:07 so now add1 23:14:10 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176173615.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:14:10 is on the dlist 23:14:10 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@178.170.99.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:15:06 looking something like ((add1 ((this) (+ 1 this))) 23:15:14 then when you call the function 23:16:04 is when the binding of arguments to parameters of a function begins 23:16:11 which is basically adding things to the a-list 23:16:20 ^this is something of which is not state 23:16:22 you can stop, i don't think anybodies interested in your definition of "function programming" 23:16:30 oh okay. 23:16:37 you asked, so i thought you were. 23:17:51 well thanks for the incites, i have to buzz. 23:17:58 -!- rk[imposter] is now known as rk[afk] 23:18:09 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:12 -!- stumpy [~stumpy@150.101.97.47] has quit [Quit: interesting] 23:18:47 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 23:19:43 jake___ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 23:26:19 -!- Oladon_work [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-247.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 23:28:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178-164-242-247.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:28:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:30:19 about finalizing SAP in sbcl, I'm not sure if that's still the case, anyone knows? http://pvk.ca/Blog/Lisp/finalizing_foreign_pointers_just_late_enough.html 23:31:41 The_third_man [~The_third@47319hpv099117.ikoula.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:19 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:37:30 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh2050.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:42:03 -!- passionke [~Administr@58.100.73.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:02 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:43:34 passionke [~Administr@58.100.73.208] has joined #lisp 23:44:37 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:53:37 kyle [~kyle@arh2050.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 23:53:56 -!- kyle is now known as jack_rabbit