00:01:04 Vergudo [~Verga@201.170.66.155.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:09 someone makes a video and people ooh and ahh #1 on HN, someone else implements it in clojure, ooh ahh, #1 on HN, guy blogs that there was a great response on HN, THAT post goes to #1 on HN, guy announces kickstarter, #1 on HN 00:01:32 it sort of crystallizes for me everything i think sucks about web 2.0 00:01:32 Join Chimpout Forum! http://www.chimpout.com/forum Join us in our battle against the feral negro beast, and stand in solidarity with George Zimmerman. 00:01:43 hefner: i only just realised that that works in CL, so I'm wondering what it's useful for. i was pointed to an old thread which i'll read soon :) 00:01:44 DataLinkDroid: it's handy for reader macro expansions, e.g. a long time ago I hacked (#!rm :r :f "/home/pjb/") to expand to a use of run-program 00:01:49 -!- kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:02:04 -!- Vergudo [~Verga@201.170.66.155.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has quit [K-Lined] 00:02:35 in web 2.0 you are in danger of being disrupted at virtually any time by cool techniques someone finds in an old pdf on citeseer 00:02:47 kaol [~kaol@piperka.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:16 hefner: didn't pjb get annoyed at that? ;-) finding his stuff missing all the time? 00:03:39 No, I'm not too dumb, I don't run those code examples myself. At least not anymore. 00:04:12 pjb: haha :-) 00:04:19 Last time I debugged a script doing rm -rf $DIR/$SUBDIR as root, with DIR and SUBDIR = "", I patched rm to avoid removing / and a few other directories 00:04:49 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/patches/index.html 00:04:55 oops... good move 00:04:59 dax [~dax@freenode/staff/dax] has joined #lisp 00:04:59 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:03 Since them something similar has been included in the official distribution. 00:05:13 back soon 00:05:19 DataLinkDroid: come to think of it, I use it fairly frequently in regular (non-reader) macros, as I like bundling the user's &body inside a lambda and writing the rest like a higher order function 00:05:45 hefner: yes, interesting 00:06:12 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449538.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:07:04 *hefner* plays a game of avoiding GENSYM 00:08:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:04 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:10:25 -!- DataLinkDroid is now known as DataLinkAway 00:11:52 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:12:10 hefner: use gentemp (: 00:14:52 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:14:59 in soviet russia, package uses you.. 00:16:43 ew 00:17:29 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:20:06 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:38 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.59.246] has joined #lisp 00:20:57 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:22:18 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:23:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-242-129.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset 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timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:54 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 01:39:20 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:37 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:39:44 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 01:43:48 -!- bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 01:44:03 bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has joined #lisp 01:45:40 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46:46 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:51 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:48:53 ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:53:19 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:40 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 01:54:25 -!- Whitesqu_ is now known as Whitesquall 01:54:54 bchi [~bji@cpe-174-096-192-072.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:25 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.252.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:59:35 Vergudo [~Verga@200.76.244.140.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:54 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 02:00:21 rukubites [~user@d58-111-189-47.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:01:40 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:02:13 I've used Xach's buildapp to create an executable using save-lisp-and-die. However, I can't seem to handle sb-ext:interactive-interrupt, i.e. the serious-condition generated when you press Ctrl-C. I've bound sb-ext:*invoke-debugger-hook* and it works on errors signalled in the code. What gives? SBCL 1.0.45.0.debian. 02:03:06 Estimado(a) Erik Schultz Rodriguez: 02:03:06 El Servicio de Administración Tributaria (SAT), le recuerda que la cita que solicitó para el día 18 de abril a las 10:04 a.m., debe ser confirmada en el siguiente periodo: 02:03:07 Inicio: 07/04/2012 01:47 a.m. Final: 09/04/2012 01:47 a.m. 02:03:07 Dicha confirmación deberá realizarla ingresando a la siguiente dirección: 02:03:07 https://citas.sat.gob.mx/citasat/C.aspx?Q=Wn8gCJegT0gH.hi5cwfK0qBwZT493nZPOGF 02:03:07 En caso de no confirmar su solicitud de cita en el período establecido, se reasignará a otro contribuyente. 02:03:07 “Cumplir nos beneficia a todos” 02:03:29 rukubites: I'd try a more recent version first. It's been 1 year since 1.0.45. 02:04:23 -!- bchi [~bji@cpe-174-096-192-072.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:04:29 Yes, even gentoo upgraded. 02:04:40 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:17 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:38 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 02:06:39 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:56 Ahhhh, hopefully there's an ubuntu ppa for sbcl 02:07:11 That would make my life easier. 02:08:00 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:07 Or perhaps a backport 02:10:41 hrs_ [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has joined #lisp 02:10:42 Verdugo is a spammer (sending privmsgs) 02:11:20 Yes, awful racist messages 02:11:55 /ignore 02:12:01 or tell someone in #freenode 02:15:02 -!- Vergudo [~Verga@200.76.244.140.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has quit [K-Lined] 02:17:59 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 02:18:51 -!- bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:21 bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has joined #lisp 02:20:28 -!- bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:52 bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has joined #lisp 02:22:21 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:29 pnathan [~Adium@64.126.165.35] has joined #lisp 02:24:17 Is asdf 2.20.16 available in git? I don't seem to be able to get it. 02:25:14 rtoym: btw, thanks for matlisp. PCA is incredibly easier to implement when it's 3 LOC ;) 02:25:44 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 02:25:56 pkhuong: Glad it works for you. There are some nice changes in the pipeline (but not from me). 02:26:10 *rtoym* has forgotten what PCA is. 02:26:34 principal components analysis? >.> 02:26:38 principal component analysis? SVD to find a projection matrix. 02:26:41 Probably not Presbyterian Church of America. :-) 02:27:07 Also pretty useful to prototype an implementation of the ellipsoid method for convex optimisation (: 02:27:38 *pnathan* hacked on pca some years ago in relation to cryptographic analysis of all things 02:28:10 pkhuong: Cool. If you need something or something's not working as expected, let me know. 02:28:13 I'm just abusing it and google predict to find interesting articles. 02:28:38 rtoym: well, I'd like sparse matrix code, but I'll likely just code that up in the final C++ version. 02:36:43 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:40c8:fdc2:f2e1:9454] has joined #lisp 02:37:12 -!- hrs_ [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:43:08 flipout` [~user@75-175-117-95.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:37 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:53:28 hrs_ [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has joined #lisp 02:55:41 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:35 -!- CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:06:35 -!- DataLinkAway is now known as DataLinkDroid 03:07:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:55 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.149.19] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 03:10:40 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.165.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:10:56 pnathan [~Adium@64.126.138.167] has joined #lisp 03:11:14 cage [~cage@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 03:11:15 ska` [~user@203.146.146.169] has joined #lisp 03:11:22 pnathan1 [~Adium@64.126.138.167] has joined #lisp 03:12:27 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-172-37.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:12:32 It seems problem existed between user and REPL. Q__Q 03:13:30 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:38 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:15:08 kennyd [~kennyd@93-140-17-119.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:15:08 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.138.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:16:21 _tca [~tca@thewired.me] has joined #lisp 03:16:40 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.53.238] has joined #lisp 03:25:34 -!- deech [~user@adsl-99-126-111-162.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:29:51 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:34:25 drumond19 [~drumond19@186.214.55.53] has joined #lisp 03:34:38 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:39:31 -!- hrs_ [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:41:58 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:47 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-tgewzjsdbpoopkxs] has joined #lisp 03:48:19 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:56:41 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.90.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:57:49 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:59:09 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 03:59:40 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:59:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:06 teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has joined #lisp 04:00:08 -!- bieber [~quassel@97.97.75.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01:38 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:15 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 04:03:40 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.85] has joined #lisp 04:04:48 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 04:05:01 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 04:06:24 Is there something built-in to do a three-way comparison like this: http://paste.kde.org/459164/ 04:06:46 Not _exactly_ like this, mind you. 04:07:00 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:40c8:fdc2:f2e1:9454] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:07:40 didi: no 04:07:43 you can macro it 04:07:50 but you prolly know that. :) 04:08:28 pnathan1: It's macro time! 04:08:41 pnathan1: Thanks. 04:08:57 didi: no... signum, I suppose 04:08:57 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 04:09:14 sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 04:09:36 What is diff between cond and case ? thanks 04:10:35 cond has a more general condition setup 04:10:50 case expects to switch on a constant returned by the condition 04:11:00 e.g., didi's example switches on keyword 04:11:04 jasox: cond is a chain of if/else if. 04:11:23 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Quit: veni vidi taedui] 04:11:48 -!- rukubites [~user@d58-111-189-47.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:12:25 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-193-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 04:12:34 thanks guys 04:16:00 didi why macro? just write a string-compare function. 04:16:45 kennyd: Right. Which returns one of '(:greater :equal :less). 04:17:26 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 04:17:44 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:30 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:20:45 pkhuong: Oh, I see. `string-compare' is sorta `signum' version for strings. 04:21:25 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@64.126.138.167] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:23:12 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 04:23:25 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 04:31:04 wyunchi [~wyunchi@2001:250:3002:4410:226a:8aff:fe16:f878] has joined #lisp 04:31:18 -!- Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.13.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:35:32 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:16 asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has joined #lisp 04:39:02 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.13.123] has joined #lisp 04:40:12 -!- wyunchi [~wyunchi@2001:250:3002:4410:226a:8aff:fe16:f878] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:42 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nbidvmubwvzkxydw] has joined #lisp 04:45:20 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 04:45:58 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-107-108.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:46:18 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-107-108.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 04:48:06 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:08 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 04:49:30 jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:24 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:56:07 -!- Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.13.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:59:55 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has left #lisp 05:00:30 hi all, i have a slime question. is there anything i can hook into on the CL side that runs after the user does C-c C-c to redefine a function and/or variable value 05:00:38 so that i can execute some code to show changes 05:03:50 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 05:06:10 -!- benny [~benny@i577A19CF.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:06:20 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:26 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-108-4-74-122.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:09:27 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:55 -!- jakky [jokk@2001:470:33:2::1ce] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:11:17 Kognizan` [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 05:11:26 -!- zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:11:41 zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has joined #lisp 05:11:46 -!- Kognizan` [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:35 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 05:12:55 asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has joined #lisp 05:12:55 jakky [jokk@2001:470:33:2::1ce] has joined #lisp 05:13:14 re: my slime question, i'm trying to make this "future projection" gimmick auto-update itself http://i.imgur.com/s7DCg.png 05:14:59 dto: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/22414 and http://paste.lisp.org/display/127219 for slime<->swank rpc. 05:15:15 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:16:50 pjb: both awesome, is there a license? 05:17:08 -!- dax [~dax@freenode/staff/dax] has quit [Ping timeout: 604 seconds] 05:17:29 No, free to use it. 05:18:03 pjb: however it's not exactly what i'm looking for---I want to hook into whatever already happens when you C-c C-c 05:18:24 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-tvaofsxrblunhwcv] has joined #lisp 05:18:24 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-tvaofsxrblunhwcv] has quit [Changing host] 05:18:24 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:18:33 i don't need any actual information from emacs other than the fact of the user having updated something via slime 05:18:54 defadvice slime-compile-defun 05:19:08 oh, inside swank. 05:19:27 But there are other ways to update things thank C-c C-c. 05:19:43 Check the sources of swank 05:20:23 well i might use your pastes plus defadvice slime compile-defun 05:20:48 just to hack something tonight to make a fun video of the "change a variable, update the object's future in realtime" gag 05:21:33 pjb: the second paste with just the one function eval-in-cl, can that be used by itself (with slime and without the other paste for now) 05:23:20 dto: I don't remember; try it. 05:23:22 dax [~dax@freenode/staff/dax] has joined #lisp 05:24:54 pjb: what am i supposed to pass for process-result-values 05:25:53 pjb: thanks so much for helping out. did you see the screenshot 05:29:46 pjb: ahhh figured it out 05:29:59 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 05:30:26 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-tgewzjsdbpoopkxs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:34:29 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:54 KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 05:35:23 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.53.238] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:35:35 eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:35 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:35:35 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 05:39:58 pjb: the short one works well enough for now. thanks. 05:40:05 i should be able to make the video 05:40:49 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 05:41:04 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.218.88] has joined #lisp 05:41:54 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:41 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-uozpnhjctmqlxewf] has joined #lisp 05:47:15 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-107-108.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:47:18 angavrilov 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[~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:13:39 -!- ska` [~user@203.146.146.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:15:28 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 06:16:12 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:17:16 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.218.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:18:46 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:19:40 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:20:39 joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has joined #lisp 06:21:19 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:47 PosterdatiFR_ [0273c7da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.115.199.218] has joined #lisp 06:23:22 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:18b1:9440:136:46d3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:23:41 hi+ 06:24:36 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:26:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has joined #lisp 06:28:37 Ragnaroek [~Adium@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:29:08 tsoet [~Widoa@78-73-117-181-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:30:03 fowl__ [~fowl@99-117-5-219.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:41 Yuuhi [benni@p54839D20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:24 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:37:33 -!- Ragnaroek [~Adium@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has left #lisp 06:37:57 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:39:43 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:45:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:22 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-252-15.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:49:12 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 06:50:00 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-uozpnhjctmqlxewf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:52:49 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:54:43 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:48 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 06:56:03 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:56:14 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 06:58:29 -!- cage [~cage@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:58:56 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:59:52 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:00:05 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:01:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-uhltlraavdyptjgo] has joined #lisp 07:01:45 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:01:51 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:02:02 Is this reasonable? http://paste.kde.org/459206/ 07:02:20 It's suppose to be a three way string comparison. 07:02:39 Well, it's inverted. 07:03:00 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:03:07 Here: http://paste.kde.org/459212/ 07:03:31 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:03:53 didi: str1 and str2 might be evaluated multiple times ... use alexandria:once-only. 07:03:59 cage [~cage@199.38.234.76] has joined #lisp 07:04:17 flip214: Thanks. I will. 07:05:57 you could use string/= once - that returns the position of a differing character, which you could use to differentiate between < and > - would save traversing the strings once. 07:08:21 flip214: Hum. Both (string/= "foo" "bar") (string/= "bar" "foo") return 0. 07:08:34 didi: and you expected what? 07:08:42 didi: of course, character at position 0 is different! 07:08:59 jdz: I don't know. Trying to parse flip214 sentence. 07:09:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:09:17 flip214: hi 07:09:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:09:45 didi: as in, (char "foo" 0) doesn't equal (char "bar" 0). flip214 presumably means to compare the characters. 07:09:48 PosterdatiFR_: LDA #"ho" 07:10:22 Bike: oic. Thank you. 07:10:27 flip214: you can't load such thing in the accumulator 07:10:33 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 07:10:41 flip214: lda #$00 07:10:46 you're at it guys. again. 07:11:03 PosterdatiFR_: if the string is in the zero page, the address goes into A. 07:11:06 jdz: sorry, thanks. 07:11:11 flip214: sys 64737+1 07:11:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.152.53.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:11:33 PosterdatiFR_: we'll keep to (sys (1+ 64737)) 07:11:54 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 07:11:59 flip214: have you got commodore 64 lisp? 07:12:34 no time for playing, sorry. but I took a short look at forth lately. 07:12:42 if you talked about z80, i'd not object as much, probably. 07:12:56 maybe. 07:13:01 jdz:hi 07:13:15 jdz: did you program z80? 07:13:35 very little. 07:14:23 I found its hardware interrupt solution interesting 07:14:26 spectrum beats commodore. end of story. off topic. 07:14:53 jdz: definitely not. End of story. Off topic. 07:15:27 jdz: the c128 had a z80 in it ... I ran CPM a few times, but it was too slow. 07:16:12 http://www.alfonsomartone.itb.it/fztsmo.html 07:17:03 Widoa [~Widoa@78-73-117-181-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:13 flip214: were you asking about light table and/or bret victor immediate feedback visualization stuff in lisp 07:19:18 and/or emacs 07:19:37 TimKack [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 07:19:42 dto: yes, saw that there are already multiple implementations ... only no links were given here 07:19:44 -!- tsoet [~Widoa@78-73-117-181-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:20:08 http://blocky.io/future-demo1.ogv <---- here's some progress on one part 07:20:23 pjb: this uses the snippet you gave me 07:25:18 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:25:31 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:28:23 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-kdssvqlvylrezlgq] has joined #lisp 07:28:30 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-uhltlraavdyptjgo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:29:12 Nice. 07:29:35 It their demos it was bidirectional. You could move graphic things around, and it would update magic numbers in the sources. 07:29:51 that sounds suspiciously magic 07:30:05 By they way, why do they have magic numbers in the sources? Haven't they been taught that the only literal numbers you can have in sources are 0 and 1? 07:31:09 Houl [~Parmi@194.94.79.226] has joined #lisp 07:31:10 -!- Houl [~Parmi@194.94.79.226] has quit [Changing host] 07:31:10 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 07:31:54 yeah, i'm not hyper convinced i'm spending my time usefully here 07:31:56 however 07:31:59 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:32:15 it will work even if you segregate all magic numbers into defparameters 07:32:17 Put a price tag and see how many customers you get. 07:32:25 ha. 07:32:25 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:55 welllll i do like how it enables me to visualize enemy patterns but.... eh well 07:33:05 pjb: all of my sources consists of only 0 and 1 bits 07:33:17 Does this solve the problem with multiple evaluation? http://paste.kde.org/459218/ 07:33:37 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 07:34:05 dto: yes, it would be more useful at run-time :-) 07:34:08 didi: looks fine. the double let is exactly what once-only gives you ... 07:34:21 Perhaps if you swallow a magic pill, you can see the future? 07:34:25 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:47 didi: oh, and btw, if you use paste.lisp.org it would get nice syntax highlightning, too 07:34:49 flip214: Nice. Not that I'm ditching once-only, mind you. 07:35:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/129018 pjb if i get sick of it, whatever, cuz it was short to write :) 07:35:16 flip214: I know. But with paste-kde I can paste directly from my buffer. 07:35:36 no configuration setting to change that to paste.lisp.org? 07:35:57 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.149.19] has joined #lisp 07:36:03 flip214: Nope. 07:36:58 araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has joined #lisp 07:36:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has quit [Changing host] 07:36:58 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:37:13 -!- cage [~cage@199.38.234.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:38:21 -!- PosterdatiFR_ [0273c7da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.115.199.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:42:34 cage [~cage@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 07:43:03 morning 07:44:23 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-52-152.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:03 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:45:25 -!- cage [~cage@FLH1Aaq228.fko.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 07:46:29 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:50 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:47:56 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:49:10 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:41 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:49:42 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:27 TimKack [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 07:52:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-20.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 07:55:39 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 07:56:57 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qlulefllouqznmvs] has joined #lisp 07:57:29 -!- monotux [~user@juno.hamsterkollektivet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:32 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 07:58:43 -!- docAvid [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:02 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:59:46 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 08:00:53 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:12 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 08:02:13 docAvid [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:28 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:03:08 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:06:50 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:35 I did not know that string/= and friends returned a mismatch index 08:09:20 Kryztof: that's why reading CLHS is always a pleasure. 08:09:38 -!- xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:50 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:10:22 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:10:23 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:28 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #lisp 08:10:50 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has joined #lisp 08:13:29 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:13:50 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 08:14:36 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-026.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:38 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:16:22 TIL 08:17:26 humm, so using string/= can be faster than mismatch? interesting 08:17:27 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:17:36 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:17:56 kanru`: why? 08:19:02 jdz: it's specialized for string operation 08:19:33 It hardcodes the :test and :key parameters. 08:20:11 meh 08:20:30 EQL is a good enough test for characters 08:22:05 and unless one uses safety setting 0 (which nobody should), EQL might as well be daster than CHAR= 08:22:11 or even faster 08:22:20 is there a rope library that can keep multiple encodings simultaneously, ie. have a CL-internal representation, but also UTF8 (and others) "cached", too? 08:22:48 but why? 08:23:32 caching is not the magic wand that solves all performance [non]problems 08:24:36 i need a function that performs exactly the same thing as "notany", but for 1 sequence only and supporting keywords :start and :end 08:24:49 should i write this myself ? i cannot find one in CLHS 08:24:59 seems like there's no such a facility 08:25:12 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:25:27 egnarts-ms: notany will happily accept only a single sequence 08:25:48 egnarts-ms: use cl:find with :test (complement #'eql) 08:27:19 jdz: yeah, my concent is that it doesn't support :start and :end 08:27:25 * my concern 08:27:39 H4ns: thanks a lot 08:29:33 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-165-111.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:31:05 -!- KognizantKog [~user@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:06 jdz: eg. because reading in an UTF8, converting to some "internal" format (to make indexing fast) and writing out again might be lossy? 08:34:23 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 08:35:15 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:38:31 add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:39:24 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:39:41 -!- tiny [~tiny@183.3.179.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:41:04 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-165-111.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 08:41:45 -!- flipout` [~user@75-175-117-95.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:01 garbage in, garbage out, as they say 08:45:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-128.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:46:04 -!- docAvid [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:48:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:48:40 yeah, #'string/= is way faster than #'mismatch on sbcl and clisp 08:49:33 kanru: #' means function lookup, that should be the same speed irregardless of the symbol used ... 08:50:10 lol 08:51:08 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:03:18 -!- joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:23 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-38-11.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:11:55 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15:08 #'x means (function x) 09:15:20 Which is not quite the same as 'function lookup'. 09:15:37 You might find that 'string/= has slightly better performance 09:16:19 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.46.12.249] has joined #lisp 09:17:47 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:19:19 kanru`: you should show the code to back up your claim 09:20:15 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:21:42 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has quit [Quit: egnarts-ms] 09:21:53 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 09:23:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:26:29 EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 09:28:27 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.13.123] has joined #lisp 09:30:33 I'm creating a package with some data structures. Many of them have a procedure called `insert'. What is the proper way to handle this clash of names? Prefixing stuff like `foo-insert' and `bar-insert'? 09:33:04 didi: packages don't contain data structures. Packages contain symbols. 09:33:20 pjb: I see. 09:33:23 You can have symbols named "INSERT" in packages named "BAR" and "FOO". 09:33:32 foo:insert bar:insert. 09:33:48 stickycake [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has joined #lisp 09:33:48 RomyRomy [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has joined #lisp 09:33:49 Or as you said, if you have a single package, or long package names. 09:34:20 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:35:27 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has quit [Client Quit] 09:35:27 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@207.239.107.3] has quit [Client Quit] 09:36:14 ur5us [~ur5us@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:42:50 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:44:39 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 09:45:08 Does Lisp always use lazy evaluation? 09:45:22 it never does. 09:46:26 Then how come (or (not (foo)) (bar)) doesn't evaluate (bar) if (foo) is false? 09:46:47 Or at least, I can put a print statement in the bar that won't be printed. 09:46:51 or is designed to be that way. 09:46:57 it's the same in all programming languages. 09:47:03 stops at the first t 09:47:11 Yes. 09:47:14 clhs or 09:47:24 dammit specbot's dead again? 09:47:27 Aethaeryn: it is not about lazy evaluation, but not evaluating at all 09:47:37 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-165-111.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:37 http://l1sp.org/cl/or right? 09:47:49 Ah, then the person who said this was "lazy evaluation" in another IRC channel was wrong! 09:47:56 yes. 09:48:08 OR is a macro, where arguments are not evaluated. 09:48:30 So in which circumstances can I rely on something not being evaluated and in which circumstances can I not? 09:48:35 Aethaeryn: It's called short circuit. 09:48:53 Aethaeryn: in the circumstances which the spec specifies. 09:48:59 Aethaeryn: macros can decide what and when to evaluate 09:49:23 Ralith: That makes cl a little harder than other languages, since there's a spec, not just "experiment on an implementation" 09:49:54 ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:50:03 I can't imagine why you find that to be a disadvantage. 09:50:06 Aethaeryn: that's a feature, not a deficiency 09:50:07 How do procedures in sequences know what to dispatch? 09:50:36 didi: a) there are no procedures, and b) what is your question again? 09:50:42 Ralith: Disadvantage for people (ab)using bugs (or undocumented features), advantage for people who have to update the language at some point :P 09:51:09 what does updating have to do with anything? 09:51:30 Aethaeryn: you mean introducing backwards-incompatible changes is a good thing? 09:51:30 Aethaeryn, this is a non-issue 09:51:50 jdz: a) there are no procedures? b) When I operate in a sequence, how does CL decide if it is a list or a vector? 09:52:04 Aethaeryn: you are perfectly welcome to use implementation-specific extensions all you like. 09:52:11 didi: (typep #(x) 'vector) => t 09:52:11 didi: (typecase object (list ) (vector )) 09:52:14 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 09:52:20 Aaaah... 09:52:20 Aethaeryn, you will never have problems with this in actual life. don't know what you're aiming for. 09:52:53 So... How does (or (not (foo)) (bar)) differ from (if (foo) (bar)) ? 09:53:08 didi: I use (defgeneric add (parent child)) then methods specializing on various parents.. Also (defgeneric child-added (parent child)) (child-removed parent-child) etc, with default primary methods empty 09:53:09 Aethaeryn: it does not. 09:53:25 (macroexpand ' (or (not (foo)) (bar))) => (let ((#1=#:g16913 (not (foo)))) (if #1# #1# (bar))) 09:53:41 *maxm-* not sure if he is abusing clos, or using it the way it was meant to be used 09:53:45 pjb: good, that's how the math should be. 09:54:08 makes it really easy on GUI, since you can do before/after/arounds, to do various fancy housekeepings 09:55:08 maxm-: Nice. Thank you. 09:56:52 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:19 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.1.22] has joined #lisp 09:58:30 jdz: (time (dotimes (_ 10000) (mismatch "a" "a"))) and (time (dotimes (_ 10000) (string/= "a" "a"))) 09:58:58 on sbcl it's 3,730,460 processor cycles vs 23,314 processor cycles 09:59:29 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:30 *didi* learns _ 09:59:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:57 leo2007 [~leo@221.223.82.57] has joined #lisp 10:00:06 and mismatch with |:test #'char=| it's even slower 10:00:51 You could contribute some nice compiler macros to those implementations. 10:03:39 "(cond ((foo)) (bar)))", "(if (foo) (bar))", "(and (foo) (bar))", and "(not (or (foo)) (bar))" all evaluate to the same thing. Interesting. 10:04:06 The results here are slightly different than logical equivalences since the second doesn't get evaluated under certain circumstances. 10:04:24 yeah, was trying.. but I have to find out exactly what combination of :test and :key of mismatch is equal to the string/= and string-equal semantic 10:05:13 kanru`: one of those might well be constant-folded out 10:05:20 kanru`: MISMATCH has different semantics than STRING/= (if the strings are not of equal length) 10:05:45 Harag [~phil@dsl-243-197-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:05:49 23000 processor cycles sounds much like the time to increment and compare 10000 times 10:06:13 Aethaeryn: you're a lier: http://paste.lisp.org/+2RJV 10:06:36 right, I shouldn't use the constant string in the bench 10:06:40 pjb: I might have made a mistake 10:07:00 Aethaeryn: just read the CLHS about IF, COND AND and OR! 10:07:20 oh wow, I did make a mistake 10:07:36 (or (not (foo)) (bar))) 10:07:53 too late at s/night/morning 10:08:25 Also, I should be copying and pasting, but I'm not. 10:09:06 -!- Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.13.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:09:29 Radium [~carbon@117.203.12.56] has joined #lisp 10:11:08 but then, MISMATCH should be able to constant-folded too ;) 10:11:16 tritchey [~tritchey@82.153.31.25] has joined #lisp 10:12:18 What's the emacs key chord to bring up the hyperspec? 10:12:33 C-c C-d h 10:13:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:15:05 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@82.153.31.25] has quit [Client Quit] 10:16:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.1.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:16:43 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0019.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:22:57 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:27:08 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-uxaxpzcgxruxjmsg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:28:54 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:33:52 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 10:41:38 joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has joined #lisp 10:45:44 how can I get a list of variables defined in the current package? 10:45:57 do-symbol boundp 10:46:19 do-symbols 10:46:45 er, this exact syntax? 10:47:06 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.223.82.57] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 10:47:59 never mind ... 10:48:14 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.12.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:55:46 ok, this gets `accessible' symbols ... I actually only want those defined (`present' ?) in the package 10:56:43 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 10:57:00 And you want fries with your predigested pap? 10:57:12 Houl: symbol-package find-package eql ??? 11:00:59 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:47 ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-026.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:03:42 asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has joined #lisp 11:05:02 homie``` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:07:08 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:13:19 pjb: that looks more like postscript or haskell ... 11:14:42 That's a few operators he might use to build the function he wants. 11:15:12 pjb: thanks for your pap 11:19:09 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:21:10 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:25:26 ghuntley [~ghuntley@CPE-60-225-85-11.hhui2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:36:25 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:36:58 oiig_ [oiig_@112.161.134.227] has joined #lisp 11:41:09 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:42:51 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 11:44:36 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@182.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:55 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec20ff0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:51:18 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-57.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:22 -!- tsuru is now known as tsuru` 11:51:35 Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:16 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 11:55:25 is there a way to do: "(loop when x do y" then unconditionally in the same loop "do z" ? 11:55:47 francogrex: END! 11:55:50 -!- phadthai [mmondor@206.248.143.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:55:50 -!- samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:55:56 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:56 samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:00 it works when I loop ... do z before but that doesn't fit waht I need 11:56:17 end? loop-end? 11:56:43 I want to only end the condition of when 11:57:23 francogrex: END! ;) 11:57:32 see 26.10. Conditional Execution 11:58:08 unknown LOOP keyword: END! 11:58:14 :/ 11:58:19 or use iterate ... there's (when x (y)), ie. cleanly defined where the when ends 11:58:30 so please explicitly... 11:58:45 I know with iterate is ok but Iw ant loop 11:59:03 francogrex: use "end" - the keyword that I wrote within quotes 11:59:39 flip214: ok that seems to work but now I have another problem: 12:00:12 no ok that works fine. THANKS! 12:01:05 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:01:44 well, that's a problem ... try to break it again, pls 12:01:50 francogrex: btw, why not (loop ... do (when x y) z) ? 12:03:02 facefox3 [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:59 antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has joined #lisp 12:06:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:06:52 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-52-152.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:31 jdz: yes that can also work, / I haven't thought about it here to use ione do and the non-loop when... 12:08:43 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:09:48 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:10:36 and a boring question, I could never figure out the practical difference between (loop for i in x for j in y... and (loop for i in x and j in y... ? 12:11:07 None. 12:11:12 they seems to be the same in terms of results 12:11:16 ok none 12:11:22 good to know 12:12:16 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:44 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-016.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:54 francogrex: you know about the difference between LET and LET*, right? 12:13:31 francogrex: "for and as clauses can be combined with the loop keyword and to get parallel initialization and stepping[1]. Otherwise, the initialization and stepping[1] are sequential. " 12:13:47 for y in x and z in y would be different. 12:16:41 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:11 -!- r_takaishi [~r_takaish@www5072u.sakura.ne.jp] has left #lisp 12:17:17 so for is like let while and is like let* ? 12:18:32 Yes 12:18:40 No, the reverse. 12:19:35 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 12:19:44 ok 12:20:47 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:35 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.104] has joined #lisp 12:25:11 -!- drumond19 [~drumond19@186.214.55.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:25 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:29:18 facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:12 -!- facefox3 [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:31:20 TimKack [~user@c-2ec2228f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 12:34:37 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:40:56 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.53.238] has joined #lisp 12:43:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-016.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:43:15 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:44:15 nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:20 Hi! Is there any convenction to name variables in closure? 12:44:37 s/convenction/convention/ 12:45:16 mrSpec: in what? 12:46:33 mrSpec: #clojure is --> there 12:46:43 see /topic 12:46:44 eg: (let (my-variable) (defun foo () ...) ), is my-variable ok, or should I name it differently ? 12:46:54 oh, sorry 12:47:05 whatever you want is fine 12:47:22 all usual variable naming considerations apply 12:47:31 that's just a normal lexical variable. as vanilla as they come 12:48:20 well, jdz is right too. so-lowercase-with-dashes, etc 12:48:26 oki, I see 12:48:27 thanks 12:49:09 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:50:49 *maxm-* is abusing font lock by crossing the lines emacs god not meant for humans to cross 12:51:35 gods have no business in hacker affairs 12:51:39 :o 12:52:32 maxm-: This better not destroy the fabric of space-time 12:52:44 http://i.imgur.com/Dmvpt.png rose background => variables, cyan backgrond -> conditions, light yellow => consequent/main branch, slightly darker one -> else/otheriwse branch 12:54:45 Inavlid 12:55:39 invalid what 12:55:40 -!- harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:55:47 invalid invalid 12:55:56 ah thanks 12:57:22 hmm this is interesting, my font-lock with 'prepend faces apparently overrides flyspell 12:58:09 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:58:51 DZevilz [~XX@AC810B03.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:59 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:17 hey peeps. 13:01:25 kilon_awya [~kilon@athedsl-188610.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 tsoet [~Widoa@78-73-117-181-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:19 -!- Widoa [~Widoa@78-73-117-181-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:08:29 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:24 -!- kilon_awya is now known as kilon 13:11:26 -!- kiuma 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13:33:58 c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.238.48.190] has joined #lisp 13:34:18 -!- wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:22 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:55 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.238.53.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:53 Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-133-215.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:36:34 hi 13:41:34 -!- ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:43:34 thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-188094.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:44:38 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-188610.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:12 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:46:47 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:39 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 13:53:07 -!- ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:53:10 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:50 chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:41 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 13:57:03 Greetings lispers 13:57:11 Evening 13:57:35 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-165-111.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 13:58:28 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:59:25 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:46 -!- tsoet [~Widoa@78-73-117-181-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 14:01:57 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:17 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 14:05:38 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:34 sn0rri 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quit [] 15:35:10 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:35:46 cl-who is not composable. discuss. 15:36:03 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:27 what major library is? 15:36:53 (or did you mean within itself?) 15:36:58 Shaftoe: within itself 15:38:56 -!- alexisTp [~alexisTp@81.184.6.157.static.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 15:40:47 optikalmouse: I tended to agree thus buildnode... 15:41:02 though to be fair I have not given cl-who a totally fair shake 15:41:10 I have a question about the CL webapp server I'm writing. Does it make sense to store an http request in a file and the accessing file via random method when the variable of hte http property I'm searching is unbound ? (maybe creating only a metadata of the file while wring the request body file) 15:41:43 s/store an http request/store an http request body) 15:42:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-036.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:42:45 optikalmouse: I just tended to not appreciate the evaluation rules in the macro based templating stuff and wanted an in memory model (obviously this has the overhead of keeping an in-memory model) 15:46:04 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:48:11 kiuma: I'm unable to parse your question. What to you mean by "accessing file by random method" 15:48:47 kiuma: also by "file" you mean the common meaning of that word, as in on-disk filesystem file? or do you mean stream 15:48:49 bobbysmith007: yes, I couldnt get a handle on that when trying to use other functions :S 15:48:52 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nyyzrjzpljzbpauf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:06 maxm-, sorry I meant using a random access file 15:49:18 yes, on disk 15:49:26 to spare memory 15:49:35 kiuma: well generally http requests are small 15:49:51 kiuma: unless you are handling a file upload 15:50:02 intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:50:05 hello all 15:50:35 maxm- suppose that someone want to stress the server sending long requests 15:51:11 kiuma: you can set a timeout of a few min 15:51:16 kiuma: as in unlimited headers etc? I would just put the reasonable limit on it, check what apache or such does 15:51:41 kiuma: are you writing your own http server or using someone else's? 15:51:50 my own 15:51:52 kiuma: imho only valid scenario of multi-megabyte request to the web serevr, would be file upload.. 15:52:20 for others just cut it off in the "65k should be enough for everybody" type approach. Make it a configurable limit 15:52:23 I'm refactoring first version because I want to add fastcgi and websockets suppport 15:52:48 I think firefox itself has some limit as to amount of data in the headers, some AJAX guys get bitten by it.. I think its 4096 15:53:00 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.1.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:53:06 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.171] has joined #lisp 15:53:42 65K for 1000 requests (an attack) could be very much) (I already have buffer limits anyway) 15:54:12 maxm-, I'm not scared by headers, I'm scared by body 15:54:20 well to answer your initial question, lets imagine you write these 65k into a file 15:54:36 imho stress on the system would be at best case the same as in memory, and in worst case actually more 15:55:05 yes, because for cgi I have to ('cause de-chunking for cgi) 15:55:12 you can make a global counter, as to amount of currently buffered data 15:55:45 so that its 65k if your "globally_count_of_incoming_buffered_stuff < global_limit" 15:56:07 -!- ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:56:07 once global limit is exceeded, you throttle, by simply not reading from sockets 15:57:41 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:58:18 here you will start getting into advanced stuff, such as different thread / worker pools.. For example, you can handle this situation for weblogic, by allocating two separate worker pools to main app, and admin page.. this way main up that is being slashdotted, is throttling, and it takes 1 minute for new requests to travel through incoming queue into a worker 15:58:18 ok, even because I'm handling pipelinig too 15:58:37 but admin page has its own 2 workers allocated with a separate queue, and answers immediately 15:58:39 no threads ... more or less 15:59:01 is't an event based with a thread pool 15:59:07 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:00:29 *maxm-* does not know enough about how fastcgi works.. I have actual expirience in optimizing very high bandwidths situations, but its limited to weblogic and its clustering 16:00:52 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:01:11 fast cgi is more or less like cgi with sockets :) 16:01:12 generally the solution seems to be to separate accepting requests, and executing them logic, and then its simply resource allocation.. 16:01:22 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-76.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:01:47 Mongrel2 is interesting in that domain. 16:02:11 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 16:02:43 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-113-247.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:43 Fade, do you mean fastcgi ? 16:02:57 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:03:15 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 16:03:30 High bandwidth separation of accepting requests and dispatching them to logic in $WHATEVER language. 16:03:39 xjrn [~innocuous@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:21 kiuma: imho what you worrying about here, being overwhelmed by large number of bodies of requests, is an artificial load situation, and won't happen other then someone trying to DOS you 16:05:00 generally only case for large http request body is uploads, and any site allowing uploads is usually very skewed to lots of readers, relatively few writers 16:05:12 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-235-191.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:05:26 mmm... and correclty you say that delegating the problem to the FS would not avoid the problem , right ? 16:05:53 kiuma: in modern linux, fs/vm/pagecache is basically the same thing 16:06:55 they all share the memory.. You can play tricks with special flags to open() to bypass page cache, but generally writing 4 gig file to disk, and mallocing 4gig and memsetting it, will have about same performance impact 16:07:11 maxm-, but do sbcl keep vars into fs/vm/pagecache ? 16:07:41 ah 16:07:43 sbcl just allocates big blob of ram, and will start swapping, generally I give SBCL less memory then my physical 16:07:52 so that in worse case it runs out of memory without killing my system 16:08:01 got it 16:08:14 ie I have 16 gig physical, so I configure SBCL with 14gig limit 16:08:19 I'll have to enble fine tuning then 16:08:55 using unix processes as "large structure" GC is a very old and valid idea 16:09:04 apache uses it, tuxedo too 16:09:08 oracle also 16:09:41 mmm.. 16:10:08 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:10:16 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:53 maxm-, and what would you suggest when passing a request to a cgi script when body is chunked (and could be a multipart-form-data with large files) 16:11:16 I need to know the body size before sending the body 16:11:55 kiuma: there are already a couple of systems that do what you're talking about; why are you recreating the past? 16:12:21 hunchentoot, toot, and mongrel2 all come to mind 16:12:43 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #lisp 16:12:50 kiuma: now that I'm thinking about it, maybe I would wrap it with a CLOS object, that would keep it in memory up to a certain limit, then back it into a file 16:13:02 Fade, hunchentoot is not event based 16:13:09 and not a web server 16:13:10 that method is used by Tuxedo, it passes blobs via IPC, until certain size, after which it switches to file 16:13:50 kiuma: are you trying to emulate node.js or something? 16:14:02 kiuma: is normal POST such as sumbitting a form usually chunked? 16:14:58 optikalmouse, no I'm trying to do a mix between nginx and jboss 16:15:23 i don't understand 'hunchentoot is not a webserver' 16:15:24 maxm-, depends by the client 16:15:31 certainly it isn't only a webserver. 16:15:31 kiuma: well since you want to handle DOS situation, can't assume anything, so I personally would do the above "wrapped body" idea, that stores small stuff in memory, then starts backing into a file.. With implementing in memory 1st, and leaving file part for later :-) 16:15:37 but there's a web server in there. 16:15:43 Fade, it's more a webapplication server 16:16:08 mongrel2 is event based. 16:16:29 maxm-, even more complicated , but I like it 16:16:31 :) 16:16:38 and since it backs on to 0MQ, it scales horizontally with little effort 16:16:54 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:54 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-91.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:17:01 Fade, I like mongrel2 thought I've never used it 16:17:38 -!- eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:56 it may save you a ton of work, is all I'm saying. 16:18:13 an in-lisp reactor based web server would be interesting. 16:18:58 kiuma: well you need clos.. ie (defclass body-buffer () ()), generics (add-chunk consumer chunk) => returns body-buffer, then (loop with buf = (make-instance 'body-buffer) as chunk = (read-next-chunk) do (setq body (add-chunk body chunk)) 16:19:09 Fade I don't understand what you mean with "reactor based" 16:19:11 -!- dekuked [6c318b0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.49.139.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:19:31 y3llow_ [~y3llow@114-36-240-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:37 Fade: You mean like node? 16:19:39 kiuma: then ADD-CHUNK would store stuff in a vector and return OBJ until limit reached, when limit reached, it would return (make-instance 'file-buffer) 16:20:12 and copy the in-memory vector collected so far to file, and then add-chunk specialized on file will continue writing to file 16:20:25 well, sure, but I have more experience with twisted.web, so I was thinking about that. 16:20:44 -!- BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:46 and of course to finally retreive the body, you will need (defgeneric body-buffer-get-input-stream) which 16:20:57 *maxm-* got carried away sorry :-) 16:20:58 Fade: I've been working on one. It has a basic working web server. 16:21:06 ciao & thanks 16:21:22 -!- Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-133-215.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:25 and can do ~20k+ reqs/s on a single thread, iirc. 16:22:02 is it going to be a public project, or is this for a client? 16:22:29 https://github.com/sykopomp/conserv/blob/develop/examples/http/hello.lisp 16:22:38 cool 16:22:56 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.202] has joined #lisp 16:23:30 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:23:46 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:39 sykopomp: what do you use, iolib? 16:24:54 yeah. I'm trying to get rid of that dependency, though. 16:25:11 Why? 16:25:31 -!- y3llow_ [~y3llow@114-36-240-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has left #lisp 16:25:51 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:25:57 are there any browser plugins whose wide usage would feed masses of garbage data to online advertising platforms 16:26:19 1. the iolib version is ancient, 2. the new version requires an external C library that isn't widely available in package managers, 3. iolib provides a lot more thna what I need, 4. I want to see if libevent2 or libev are faster 16:26:40 ah 16:26:49 I have libevent2 bindings, but I need some lightweight direct socket api bindings. 16:27:10 fwiw, fe[nl]ix has made rpm's and debs of libfixposix available for popular platforms 16:27:30 usocket doesn't fit? 16:27:31 I'd like things to be as quicklisp-installable as possible. 16:27:44 a lot of stuff in quicklisp has external deps. 16:27:48 commonqt forex. 16:27:49 no, usocket doesn't give me access to the underlying OS fd that i need to give libevent/libev 16:27:59 y3llow_ [~y3llow@114-36-240-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:08 qt is widely available in package managers. 16:28:17 libfixposix is not. 16:28:19 and if you're going to make it portable, you're going to need something like libfixposix yourself... 16:28:20 <3 multiplexer timers 16:28:24 Fade do you mean my project or sykopomp's ? 16:28:32 sykopomp's 16:28:43 Fade: why? 16:28:51 libfixposix - the autoconf of the lisp world 16:29:03 because your direc socket api is going to end up talking to the underlying OS 16:29:12 *direct 16:29:15 on the standard socket API 16:29:25 I can iron out the details lisp-side easily enough, afaict. 16:29:52 the current quicklisp version of iolib doesn't use libfixposix :) 16:29:58 well, i'll be interested in seeing it when you've got it going well. 16:30:06 sykopomp: the next one will 16:30:25 right 16:30:58 where is xach these days? 16:31:05 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:31:13 with current do you mean the git one ? 16:31:13 in the next two weeks we'll have new releases of babel, cffi, bordeaux-threads and iolib 16:31:36 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.1.215] has joined #lisp 16:32:05 I kinda wish iolib's basic socket stuff could be extracted without libfixposix (I don't need the multiplexing stuff) 16:32:59 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:42 that won't happen 16:34:22 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:37:30 larsthegeek [~larsthege@c-67-171-37-138.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:42 anyone have any interest in my lisp font-lock hacks? wondering if I should bother cleaning it up and githubbing it 16:41:11 what does it do ? 16:41:43 [08:52:44] http://i.imgur.com/Dmvpt.png rose background => 16:41:43 variables, cyan backgrond -> conditions, light yellow 16:41:43 => consequent/main branch, slightly darker one -> 16:41:43 else/otheriwse branch 16:41:46 16:41:46 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:53 err sorry for bad paste, thought it would come out as 1 line 16:42:32 maxm-: I have done some context-aware highlight for CL for my thesis 16:42:45 they are slow as fuck and very hacky, but can be relevant for you 16:43:01 here is another example: http://i.imgur.com/t8Gmc.png 16:43:05 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-017.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:29 yea I finding liking them more and more as I actually use them for real.. Still tweaking faces around 16:43:47 and with emacs jit lock, its not really that slow at all 16:43:49 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:44:10 -!- larsthegeek [~larsthege@c-67-171-37-138.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus is updating...] 16:44:18 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:44:24 larsthegeek [~larsthege@c-67-171-37-138.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:53 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:22 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 16:47:51 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:00 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.109] has joined #lisp 16:49:08 sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has joined #lisp 16:49:15 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@182.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:30 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:20 Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-137-147.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 16:52:43 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec29d09-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 16:54:26 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:54:45 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec2228f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:55:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:58:34 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@182.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:59:52 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:02:06 superbeer [~superbeer@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:17 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@182.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:04 as a monochromat, I'm having some trouble seeing what's happening in your screenshots. 17:05:10 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:05:34 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:02 sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has joined #lisp 17:07:46 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-140-17-119.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:14 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:47 Fade: different faces for variables in let, condition in if/when/unless/cond the type or constants in case/typecase, for the object being tested in case/typecase, THEN branch of if/cond/when/unless have its own face, as well as ELSE branch of if, or (t ..) branch of cond/case/typecase 17:09:07 ah 17:09:20 Fade: forgot function-name-face for function names in macrolet/flet/labels too 17:10:09 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.12] has joined #lisp 17:11:40 dekuked [~user@pool-108-49-139-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:15 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.130.91] has joined #lisp 17:13:31 I rely on a fontlock, but it's much less subtle than that. :) 17:14:48 *maxm-* just looked up monochromat in wikipedia, holy cows 17:15:52 if its not too intrusive, which kind you have? wikipedia says there are 3 types 17:17:49 i see in colour, but the only wavelength where the perception jibes with the general public is in the blue range. 17:18:01 so, s-cone monocromacy. 17:20:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:20:47 bloody oom, killed minion again 17:20:50 your screenshot appears mostly white. 17:21:03 how large is minion's image? 17:21:14 not large, i have no idea why it did so 17:21:19 *stassats* hates oom so much 17:21:42 i've run into it so rarely, and always because I've done something stupid, so I haven't formed an opinion of oom. 17:22:20 i haven't run into it before, but now it seems to come into action regularly, killing sbcl at the first try 17:22:55 minion is causing SBCL to run out of memory? 17:23:07 i don't know what's causing it 17:23:11 s/sbcl/os-kernel 17:23:15 something is, and oom decides to kill sbcl 17:24:14 i should lower the scores of sbcl 17:24:23 Oh, so the OS is actually running out. 17:24:37 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-76.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:24:45 I guess sbcl's allocation pattern causes a high oom_badness score. 17:26:22 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-98-87-52-254.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:43 -!- tsuru is now known as tsuru` 17:27:09 i'll try to filter out from dmesg what actually happened 17:29:07 -!- dax is now known as xaD 17:29:56 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:04 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:30:09 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 17:30:20 -!- TimKack` [~user@c-2ec29d09-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:34 -!- nha [~prefect@dhcp-15-244.math.tu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:31:39 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec29d09-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:31:40 *RenJuan* hasn't seem a program exhaust or even use all of VM in a long time. 17:31:45 *seen 17:31:45 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``*seen''. 17:31:54 what 17:31:54 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``what''. 17:32:01 oh, not good (: 17:32:02 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 17:32:04 *(room) 17:32:04 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 17:32:05 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:32:12 fuck 17:32:12 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``fuck''. 17:32:25 *ThomasH* chuckles 17:32:25 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:34 why did it respond to that? 17:32:38 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-137-147.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:32:54 it responds to fuck whenever? 17:33:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:33:15 ah, didn't see it was ds'ed 17:34:16 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 17:34:19 clhs list 17:34:28 not good 17:34:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 17:35:15 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:36:07 -!- zophy [~zophy__@host-18-111-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:36:22 Fade: Depending on the kernel version, I've seen the OOM killer do some really stupid things. It would not surprise me if SBCLs high VSIZE penalizes it for the OOM killer 17:36:39 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-52-254.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:56 *jasom* had the OOM killer kill init once back in the 2.4 days 17:38:07 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-204.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:43 I think init has been blacklisted from the oom kill targets list. :) 17:40:52 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.119.155] has joined #lisp 17:40:59 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qlulefllouqznmvs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:41:03 From the badness calculation: points = p->mm->total_vm; 17:42:03 how much RAM does the machine that hosts minion contain? 17:42:41 but more recent kernels have this: points = get_mm_rss(p->mm) + p->mm->nr_ptes; 17:42:55 which is much kinder to SBCL 17:45:10 jasom: actually, SBCL's allocation of unboxed pages results in an artificially high umber of PTEs. 17:45:36 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:46:23 doh 17:47:56 Fixing this (e.g. by allocating unboxed pages from the top of the heap) would probably be an interesting introduction to the runtime system. 17:48:43 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-244.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:46 would that just allow unboxed pages to be merged, reducing the number of PTEs? 17:50:01 jasom: right, and it'd definitely help fork (: 17:50:34 do people fork a lot with SBCL? Only time I do it is before saving an image 17:51:20 nobody forks because fork is slow, anyway. 17:52:17 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 17:52:42 -!- larsthegeek [~larsthege@c-67-171-37-138.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 17:55:46 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:13 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 17:59:38 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:53 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 18:02:16 ale` [~user@dynamic-adsl-84-221-191-250.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:02:38 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 18:03:05 BigHugeDog1 [~QQ@221.0.11.215] has joined #lisp 18:03:15 -!- superbeer [~superbeer@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [] 18:03:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:03:54 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:00 hi, what would be the best way, given a pathname like #P"/home/ale/", to get the "ale/" portion? 18:04:01 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.11.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:04:47 ale`: (car (last (pathname-directory #p"/home/ale/"))) 18:05:30 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 18:06:46 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-057-247.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:27 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:12:12 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.149.16] has joined #lisp 18:13:16 -!- c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.238.48.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:28 dlowe: thanks. 18:14:46 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:14:49 -!- fowl__ [~fowl@99-117-5-219.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:50 fowl__ [~fowl@unaffiliated/fowlmouth] has joined #lisp 18:15:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:15:49 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:16:08 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-396208.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:16:14 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:23 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:18:04 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:27 -!- thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-188094.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:52 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:20:53 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 18:22:54 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:23:30 weelevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:06 Apparently Slime breaks INTERACTIVE-STREAM-P. :( Bug filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/slime/+bug/985085 (apparently nobody ever uses INTERACTIVE-STREAM-P it or it would have been detected...) 18:24:19 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:20 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:20 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-95.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:26:40 bga_ [bga@me0w.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:43 -!- facefox [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:27:41 Aethaeryn, pjb: "02:53:15 So... How does (or (not (foo)) (bar)) differ from (if (foo) (bar)) ?" "02:53:31 Aethaeryn: it does not." <-- Sure it does! 18:29:29 facefox3 [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:36 -!- facefox3 [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:30:46 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 18:31:32 facefox3 [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:40 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 18:34:39 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:34:56 its what they call a trick question.. focuses one's attention on the side effect, and makes forget about return value 18:36:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-017.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:14 *maxm-* writes it down to torture future interviewees with :-) 18:36:54 Let's hope they'll think more than 16 seconds before answering. :) 18:37:06 leeeroy jenkins 18:39:25 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:27 sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has joined #lisp 18:42:16 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449538.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:42:56 anyone know much about cl-ppcre? 18:43:13 It's nice and popular. What about it? 18:43:15 jasom: "know much"? 18:43:20 From reading the docs, it seems like (funcall (cl-ppcre:create-scanner "Hi") "Hi") should work 18:43:32 i.e. not drop me into the debugger 18:44:14 (or (not nil) "foo") => t 18:44:20 (if nil "foo") => nil 18:44:24 Right. 18:44:31 Mwahahaha. 18:44:32 jasom: why? The result of create-scanner is not meant to be called directly, but passed instead of a regexp string. 18:44:48 pkhuong: ah, I see, I didn't realize that 18:44:56 1I wish I had thought of that. 18:45:22 s/1I/I 18:45:43 "Accepts a string which is a regular expression in Perl syntax and returns a closure which will scan strings for this regular expression." made me think it was meant to be called directly 18:45:46 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #lisp 18:46:02 And it actually does work if I explicitly pass start and end 18:46:24 which made sense once I called describe on the closure 18:46:34 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C797B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:48:27 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-108-49-139-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:48:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:56:00 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 18:56:05 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.149.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:04 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:50 So... How does (or (not (foo)) (bar)) differ from (not (if (foo) (bar)) ? :-P 19:01:49 jasom: Be careful, you might be relying on an implementation detail there. If it's not stated in the documentation that the closure takes exactly these parameters, I wouldn't rely on it (well, for a project which actually has real documentation, which this one does). 19:04:24 Aethaeryn: (or (not t) nil) (not (if t nil)) 19:05:06 -!- bga_ [bga@me0w.net] has left #lisp 19:05:20 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:05 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C797B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:08:07 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:04 dekuked [~user@pool-108-49-139-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:13 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:11:57 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 19:13:09 This is actually pretty enlightening about side effects. 19:13:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.130.91] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 19:14:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:16:55 what do side effects have to do with it? 19:17:19 *ThomasH* was wondering the same thing. 19:19:43 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-30-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:57 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-234-70.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:13 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:20 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 19:20:41 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-30-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:21:09 -!- ale` [~user@dynamic-adsl-84-221-191-250.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:37 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-30-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:59 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-30-32.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:22:01 Ralith: Let's say you have a function that looks like this: 19:22:18 (defun fun () (print "foobar") t) 19:22:53 Now, if you dissect the or and the if with (fun), you're going to think they're the same because of when (print) gets called and when it doesn't. 19:22:54 They want (if (foo) (bar) t). 19:23:20 -!- joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:27 (As in, the variants where it's t and the variants where it's nil) 19:23:28 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-113-247.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:46 peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 19:24:12 PRINT always returns its argument, by the way. So FUN above would return a true value even without the T. 19:24:15 So actually you can just have the function take nil or t and return what it takes as a parameter. 19:24:39 Hexstream: The negation won't, though. 19:25:14 (defun fun (x) (print "foobar") x) 19:25:33 Now you can have a (fun t) and a (fun nil) and this is a way to evaluate when side effects get called and when they don't. 19:25:49 (defun fun (x) (print "foobar")) would always return "foobar". Which is true. 19:26:04 Yes. 19:26:21 But what we need is a 'truth table' 19:26:40 t t, t nil, nil t, nil nil 19:26:49 veritas aeternum 19:27:52 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:30:06 So we'd go through (or (not (fun t)) (fun t)) and (if (fun t) (fun t)), etc. 19:30:45 sup yall. im interested in learning lisp, is there a guide to getting started on windows? (im forced to use it atm) 19:31:57 fowl__: try clisp and get a copy of Practical Common Lisp 19:32:07 There's http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-windows/ 19:33:01 thanks that looks perfect 19:34:56 c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.224.149.109] has joined #lisp 19:35:10 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.149.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:16 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38:24 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 19:41:35 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:42:12 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:47 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:59 dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:43:38 Aw, I missed all the fun. 19:43:39 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-040.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:44:43 -!- Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.1.215] has quit [] 19:44:59 DDR: what's the difference between (or (not (foo)) (bar)) and (if (foo) (bar)) ? 19:45:32 the former will return T in case (foo) returns NIL 19:45:47 so, it'd bee (if (foo) (bar) t) 19:45:50 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:46:51 yay, I now maintain FiveAM :) 19:46:59 fe[nl]ix: nice! 19:47:04 mel0on [1000@h-91-136.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:47:20 stassats: Cool, you didn't fall for the trick question that was discussed in #lisp while you were away. 19:47:24 fe[nl]ix: You are like some kind of library collector ;) 19:47:26 double-float in sbcl seems to cons a lot ;/ 19:47:40 stassats: You win a (tracking) cookie! 19:48:41 Aethaeryn: stassats could give you correct answers to *actual* trick questions. ;P 19:49:24 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:30 Hexstream: Okay, since you were the first one to answer *correctly* to the question, I'm sure you have or can think of some trick questions you could pose #lisp just for fun. 19:49:31 <|3b|> oGMo: yep, no room for tag bits, so it has to get stored on heap in a lot of cases 19:49:35 sellout: only the finest antiques :) 19:49:59 sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has joined #lisp 19:50:49 so, PROG1 and PROG2 walk into a bar, who gets the first drink? 19:50:54 Not a trick question, but I recently discovered that WITH-INPUT-FROM-STRING has an INDEX parameter that I had just never noticed before. 19:51:07 -!- oiig_ [oiig_@112.161.134.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:51:58 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:52:05 minion: will you behave now? 19:52:06 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 19:52:08 ok 19:53:07 Oh, I see. 19:53:22 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:29 |3b|: ah right .. and the array allocation hack 19:54:01 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.119.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:05 <|3b|> right, storing them in preallocated space is one workaround, or just inlining as much as possible :) 19:54:09 Hexstream: that's quite interesting 19:55:02 |3b|: inlining doesn't seem to help afaict, the real killer seems to be coerce 19:55:11 *stassats* is anxious to apply this somewhere 19:56:22 <|3b|> inlining helps avoid boxing to pass to or from functions, but if it is already getting boxed it won't matter 19:56:22 or, i guess, there's no optimization for coercing into a preallocated space (?) 19:56:26 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:56:47 <|3b|> might try checking type before coercing 19:57:06 well, it will be coerced the majority of the time i guess 19:57:46 <|3b|> silly looking things like a typecase with the exact same body in each branch can help 19:57:59 eni [~eni@31.171.153.13] has joined #lisp 19:58:16 oh definitely 19:58:23 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 19:58:57 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:57 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:57 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:34 fe[n]ix: fiveAM looks like one of the more modern testing suites I've seen for cl, is there anything close to it? 20:00:16 I mean if I had to choose a testing suite, would it be wrong to just pick fiveAM? or is it for a certain development methodology or something? 20:00:17 only stefil 20:01:09 to me, fiveam is the best so I wanted to pick it up to improve it further 20:01:51 I used to use LIFT, but switched to fiveam at some point  don't remember why. 20:02:37 i tried the others not too long ago and fiveam was the most-working .. i think something like test dependencies were lacking from stefil (?) 20:03:50 I've used fiveam and stefil, and I don't recall much difference between them, except I liked stefil's failures better 20:04:03 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:04:35 yeah, fairly sophisticated use of restarts or somesuch 20:05:21 oGMo, dlowe: I'll blog about it tonight 20:05:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:57 inaugurating the blog :) 20:06:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:06:38 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-9-123.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:06:52 fe[nl]ix: heh 20:07:29 dekuked: and btw, autocompletion is really useful especially wich nicknames like mine 20:07:57 /me wondering why your message wasn't highlighted 20:08:15 I don't much like Hungarian common lisp, though, so I've kinda backed off from the mainline stefil 20:09:00 fe[nl]ix: He forgot the l. 20:09:15 thus my remark :) 20:09:35 fe[nl]ix: your irc client should be able to interpret your nick as a regex 20:11:58 -!- Kynes` [~GTSpyVan1@adsl-75-0-4-201.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:18 Kynes` [~GTSpyVan1@75.14.208.66] has joined #lisp 20:12:29 more like match also words with levenshtein distance of 1 or 2 20:18:25 or from a trie 20:18:31 -!- y3llow_ [~y3llow@114-36-240-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:55 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-240-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:56 y3llow [~y3llow@114-36-244-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:05 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-244-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:55 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:32 sacho [~sacho@46.10.14.57] has joined #lisp 20:24:32 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:47 -!- dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has left #lisp 20:28:49 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-234-70.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:29:41 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-234-70.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:31 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 20:31:13 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:32:05 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 20:32:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-91.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38:20 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:03 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-204.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:40:34 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-243-197-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish] 20:46:01 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@182.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:50:54 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:51:43 thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-400871.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:52:49 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.10.245] has joined #lisp 20:53:54 -!- c0atz1n_ [~c0atz1n@189.224.149.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:49 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-396208.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:55:05 -!- xaD is now known as Dax 20:57:55 lemoinem [~swoog@199.180.99.120] has joined #lisp 20:58:00 sysfault [~exalted@c-69-141-108-208.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:01 -!- sysfault [~exalted@c-69-141-108-208.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:58:02 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 20:58:16 -!- maxm- is now known as maxm 20:58:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:58:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:00:02 -!- maxm is now known as maxm- 21:02:18 -!- maxm- is now known as maxm 21:04:54 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:05:40 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 21:05:43 hello 21:05:51 Greetings 21:05:54 If my variable stores value 2.2644876e7 21:06:14 how to configure lisp printer to print in usual notation (not exponentional)? 21:06:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-040.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:42 strekoza [~strekoza@cpe-72-178-161-48.rgv.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:49 impulse32_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177960550.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:06:57 minion: ~f 21:07:01 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``~f''. 21:07:04 *sellout* figured that wouldn't work. 21:07:10 I have many values like this and whould like to see it as a plain number 21:07:11 antonv: Look at ~f 21:07:31 no, I mean not when using format, but when REPL prints expression results 21:07:46 -!- strekoza [~strekoza@cpe-72-178-161-48.rgv.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:54 -!- impulse32_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177960550.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:20 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:29 impulse32_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177960550.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:08:31 i see nothing in pinter dicionary of chls for this... 21:08:34 -!- impulse32_ [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177960550.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:09:24 antonv: Why would you want to do that? 21:09:25 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177960550.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:09:44 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10:06 probably in sbcl you can specialize print-object on float 21:10:56 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:11:02 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177960550.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:11:13 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 21:11:29 antonv: (defmethod print-object ((f float) stream) (format stream "~f~%" f)) 21:11:30 sellout: (* 1000 2106.50) => 2106500.0 thats OK, but when I multiply to 10000, it starts printing in exponential notation (* 10000 2106.50) => 2.1065e7 21:11:33 works for me under sbcl 21:11:42 customize as you want 21:11:57 maxm: thanks 21:12:00 note that its non-portable, as float not required to be built-in class 21:12:10 maxm: ok 21:12:18 antonv: what would you want to see printed for 2.1065e7? 21:12:21 I think float is 21:12:35 Float is a system class 21:12:36 you can still fix it portable by doing :around primary method, and using (typep) 21:12:37 Yeah, float is. 21:12:49 maxm: Your original is portable. 21:12:51 antonv: i mean, the notation is actually correct. it would not be correct to just fill the missing digits with zeros. 21:12:56 H4ns: 21065000.0 21:13:36 ha actually float is 21:13:37 This will also be affected by the pprint dispatch table that may override print-object 21:13:42 so the above thing is portable 21:13:52 I'm not sure it is 21:13:54 <|3b|> maxm: isn't specializing a CL GF on a CL class non-portable anyway? 21:14:12 <|3b|> or was print-object an exception? 21:14:38 I think |3b| is right. What is portable is making sure that *print-pretty* is on and stuffing something into the pprint-dispatch-table 21:14:53 Kryztof: Clhs 4.3.7 Integrating Types and Classes, fig 4.8 seems to list all types that require corresponding class, and float is there 21:14:53 21:15:14 oiig_ [oiig_@112.161.134.227] has joined #lisp 21:15:26 maxm: but you're not allowed to define overriding methods on standardized generic functions applicable when all arguments are direct instances of standardized classes 21:15:31 |3b|: i'm out of my element here, and defer to experts :-) 21:15:33 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 point 19 21:15:59 (the point is that the implementation might well have its own definition of print-object on float that you a 21:16:15 ... that your method clobbers, and the implementation can be unhappy about that) 21:16:32 <|3b|> is there any guarantee format doesn't call print-object, for that matter? 21:16:59 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:07 I would expect it does for ~s but not for ~f 21:17:31 it would have to be a pretty clever print-object method to cope with all the exciting parameters you can pass to ~F. Not impossible though (imagine it as a bunch of special bindings) 21:17:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.82.96] has joined #lisp 21:18:31 -!- thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-400871.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:19:59 nif [~nor@gateway/tor-sasl/nif] has joined #lisp 21:20:28 H4ns: do you mean 2.1065e7 is not 21065000.0? 21:22:20 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:23:25 <|3b|> antonv: probably more that 2.1065e7 is also 21065001.0 21:23:26 greaver [~jo@41.138.11.188] has joined #lisp 21:23:30 *maxm* notices that CLHS converted to info does not have numbers in menu items, so finding 11.1.2.1.2 is kind of hard 21:24:33 -!- Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:01 ha, I'm emulating it with going to top menu item, then doing C-u 11 21:25:27 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:28 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26:47 Fullmoon [~Fullmoon@dsl-stat-43-17.mmc.at] has joined #lisp 21:26:57 -!- phf [~phf@75-150-171-219-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:53 Kryztof: technically if he is only interested in having it work in slime, would not specializing on (stream slime-output-stream) get around point 19? 21:28:16 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:39 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 21:28:53 -!- maxm [~user@openchat.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:28:53 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 21:29:07 Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has joined #lisp 21:29:18 <|3b|> aren't you not supposed to specialize on the stream argument? 21:29:32 |3b|: so float can't represent 21065001.0 or 21065000.0 preciesely? 21:29:53 <|3b|> a single-float can't distinguish them 21:30:24 *|3b|* doesn't know if it happens to actually represent one of them 21:30:55 so small number and already loss of precision.... 21:31:46 single-float is 6-9 decimal digits of precision 21:31:54 (at least in ieee 32-bit speak) 21:32:17 btw, print-object doesn't help me to print (* 10000 2106.50), it confirms it because printed notation follows it's internal representation 21:32:18 here (= 2.1065e7 21065000.0) => t 21:33:11 <|3b|> Houl: right, they read as the same single-float 21:33:11 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:33:35 H4ns: yes, and also (= (* 10000 2106.50) 21065001.0) => t 21:33:45 <|3b|> Houl: as does anything within about +-1 of that 21:33:58 antonv: you can set *read-default-float-format* to double-float 21:35:25 maxm: I've done that in a project, but it does get annoying as trig and other functions return single-float if given a non-float input 21:35:38 Cosman246 [~user@D-128-208-138-216.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:36:25 maxm: I did... 21:36:56 (type-of 2106.50) => double-float 21:37:24 but still (* 10000 2106.50) is printed in exponential notation 21:37:36 scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has joined #lisp 21:37:54 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:38:16 now (= (* 10000 2106.50) 21065001.0) => nil 21:38:33 and (type-of (* 10000 2106.50)) => double-float 21:38:42 tomekd789 [tomekd789@hbm66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:38:45 and yet, exponentional notation.... 21:39:15 How about this: I want to implement multiple data structures. Many of them have an operation called `insert'. Instead of creating symbols like `foo-insert' and `bar-insert' in a package, I'll create multiple packages like `datastructure-foo' and `datastructure-bar' so I can have `insert' inside each of them. 21:39:59 antonv: with ~s or ~a I get scinotation, but with ~f it prints out 21065000.0 21:40:39 Hi all. I've read already about the with-open-file function. The subtle issue is that I need to define a function that reads from the open file in many places of the code. The approach I use now is to define a global handle, open at the beginning of the main form, and close manually before end. 21:40:47 Is there a more lispy way? 21:40:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.82.96] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:50 didi: (defgeneric insert (data-structure data)) 21:40:52 hmm slime uses prin1-to-string to print results of eval 21:40:54 rstill [~rstill@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 21:41:18 Phoodus: if I do format with ~f, it prints 21065000.0, but my print-object method is not called for some reason 21:42:34 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:42:48 antonv: ok, it could be possible to do what you want through pprint-dispatch 21:43:01 sykopomp: Thanks, I'll look into it. 21:43:02 *maxm* never used it, so its just a theory 21:44:12 didi: but really, insert may depend entirely on the interface itself. Defining multiple functions may still be a good idea. 21:44:36 antonv: or if you are really interested in just getting it done in "screw the consequences" manner, go to definition of sb-impl::output-float, change last line from -3 8 to -3 20 21:44:40 then C-c C-c it 21:44:52 (* 10000 2106.50) now prints 21065000.0 21:45:05 maxm: ) 21:45:24 russian lisp, american lisp, sledgehammer approach works everywhere :-) 21:45:50 sykopomp: I'm envy of CL's operations on sequences, I guess. 21:46:23 didi: SBCL supports extending sequences, too. 21:46:44 sykopomp: Hum, interesting. 21:47:07 so you can use the built-in CL sequence functions on your own sequence types, once you implement the protocol. 21:47:14 antonv: it seems print-object is a dead-end, only works for (print something) 21:47:33 -!- rstill [~rstill@12.104.144.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:47:45 just monkey patch it like above and get on with your life 21:48:29 maxm: ok, I'm reading about pprint-dispatch, will try to do it more civil, because I will need this script later and not sure will use it with SBCL then 21:49:05 can you cast it to an integer? your example number doesn't have any fractional component 21:51:12 maxm: ha, it's quite easy: (set-pprint-dispatch 'float (lambda (stream object) (format stream "~f" object))) and it works as I wanted 21:51:36 Phoodus: no, I want the results of calculations to be printed in REPL as I want. I have many such expressions 21:52:02 Phoodus: and I can't every time type code to convert types 21:52:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-128.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:03 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:06 thanks all! no I can continue with my task 21:55:37 antonv: cool, just beware that if *print-pretty* is nil, it wont through pprint thing.. But for interactive debugging its cool to always have *print-pretty* t anyway 21:55:53 maxm: ok 21:56:13 -!- ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:57:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:58:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:58:28 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:28 -!- tomekd789 [tomekd789@hbm66.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Wychodzi] 21:59:37 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@199.180.99.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:01:51 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 22:02:22 rstill [~rstill@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 22:02:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:03:18 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:05:44 starji [~starji@c-76-105-137-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:26 -!- prip [~foo@host56-134-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:43 prip [~foo@host56-134-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:06:53 lemoinem [~swoog@29-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:28 -!- intinig [~user@93-50-99-219.ip152.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:11:12 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 22:11:24 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:13:17 Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 22:15:10 daniel__2 [~daniel@p5082A78B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:16:14 -!- starji [~starji@c-76-105-137-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:25 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:17:19 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082BC5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:05 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:33 afternoon 22:19:52 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 22:20:44 DataLinkDroid [~David@120.158.228.164] has joined #lisp 22:24:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:25:37 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-107-108.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:40 -!- Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:32:01 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:25 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:32:36 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-3-20.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:37 -!- deech [~user@adsl-99-126-111-162.dsl.stl2mo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:27 ainm [~ainm@7.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:53 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.67] has joined #lisp 22:40:48 what's cool in LispWorks Personal Edition that I can't do in SLIME? 22:40:56 or that's easier than using SLIME? :S 22:41:27 optikalmouse: has a cool graphical debugger and stepper 22:42:08 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:43:01 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-95.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:49:47 -!- Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:55 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:56 *maxm* was underwhelmed by their debugger, at least it was not intuitively obvious to figure out, as if you lets say show eclipse to someone for the 1st time 22:50:17 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-114.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:29 in fact I had easier time with slime 22:51:00 but I did not spent more then 10 minutes or so trying to figure it out.. 22:51:06 -!- rstill [~rstill@12.104.144.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:03 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-52-155.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:31 ah ok, I've used Squeak and the smalltalk debugger before, is it anything like that then? 22:54:00 *maxm* was kind of impressed with allegro debugger webcast, but the pricing was "ouch" 22:54:01 airolson [~airolson@174.119.26.215] has joined #lisp 22:54:12 but you can try it in their demo edition 22:55:19 fjl [~fjl@178-25-98-61-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:56:00 optikalmouse: haven't used them sorry 22:56:15 maxm: yeah allegro seems pitched at a different market, so say the least 22:57:17 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-20-106.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:52 Is it because most personal users are using the FOSS implementations, so they need high prices to break even in that market. I almost think this is a shame. 22:58:38 well I tried buying 64bit version from them. Single user, non-redistributable (ie I can't sell any programs I produce) 22:59:00 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-52-155.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:01 flipout [~user@75-175-121-38.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:28 chturne: nope 23:00:00 I think there is money in paying for directed development, and support 23:00:04 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-108-49-139-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:00:08 though perhaps you'd need more users 23:00:19 is there a web page that summarizes CDR implementation status? i can't find anything on cliki, nor on the CDR pages 23:00:55 *maxm* does not mind paying for stuff, but not at price levels where I can buy a small car with that 23:01:08 One would hope that any lisp worth using already has cdr well implemented 23:01:35 scombinator: you're joking, right? 23:01:39 nixfreak_ [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:58 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:02:05 fjl: I don't know what cdr is other than contents of decrement register 23:02:26 scombinator: i meant http://cdr.eurolisp.org/ 23:02:46 fjl: I think in implementation features you might see which are implemented, but I doubt most implementations implement most 23:02:52 DataLinkDroid, can you elaborate? 23:03:02 scombinator: this is like PEP (python enhancement proposals) and the lile 23:03:10 scombinator: *like 23:04:38 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:14 oh... this is because a new standard is never going to happen? 23:05:19 churne: nope. sorry, busy working 23:06:13 -!- nixfreak_ [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:06:16 scombinator: there's definitely money in that, I remember there was a kickstarter project or something to fund development of some SBCL features? 23:06:51 optikalmouse: Threads on Windows is the one I remember. 23:07:29 didi: 1+ CCL 23:11:54 -!- mathrick_ 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