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[harish@nat/redhat/x-llbkoqyzoyururdf] has joined #lisp 03:41:15 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:40 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 03:44:31 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 03:46:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.123] has joined #lisp 03:46:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.123] has quit [Changing host] 03:46:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:47:39 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:54 Has anyone got any useful patterns on unit testing compiler macros? 03:48:55 nostoi [~nostoi@179.Red-88-27-67.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:26 Test the expanded code against the test for the function it is optimizing. 03:57:10 s/function/forms/ 03:59:51 What do you recommend when the compiler macro uses the environment? How do you check that that the compiler macro is being invoked? e.g. (symbol-macrolet ((s (the fixnum #:s14234))) 04:00:18 sorry, expressions involving symbol macrolets. 04:02:49 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:02:58 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:03:07 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:36 Well, you have compiler-macro-function ... 04:07:22 -!- benny [~benny@i577A853D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:09:39 -!- hyoyoung [seoz@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:47 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:09:55 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@179.Red-88-27-67.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 04:10:29 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:13:35 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-244-7.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:14:40 ihyoyoung [seoz@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 04:18:13 lispnewbie [6c23a916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.35.169.22] has joined #lisp 04:18:32 isn't emacs supposed to color code parentaces? 04:19:24 nevermind 04:21:10 what is the code to enable slime? 04:21:43 M-x slime 04:22:56 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-244-7.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:23:00 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has left #lisp 04:23:28 getting errors: Warning (initialization): An error occurred while loading `c:/Users/Nick/AppData/Roaming/.emacs': File error: Cannot open load file, c:/Users/Nick/AppData/Roaming/quicklisp/slime-helper.el 04:24:00 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-50-176.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:19 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:07 lispnewbie: check out rainbow-delimiters if you want emacs to color all the parens. some find it gaudy, but i like it 04:25:12 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:31 i got parents working 04:25:31 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 04:25:47 but emacs is giving me the error: Warning (initialization): An error occurred while loading `c:/Users/Nick/AppData/Roaming/.emacs': File error: Cannot open load file, c:/Users/Nick/AppData/Roaming/quicklisp/slime-helper.el 04:26:38 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:28:18 is there a way to unload a package from the running lisp? 04:28:20 Guest79918 [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:30 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gxbtblkcidzatmjj] has joined #lisp 04:30:55 i don't knwo 04:31:21 does asdf not already provide a way for it ? 04:32:01 nm. figured out i needed to use ql:quickload instead of asdf:load-op 04:32:03 registering the symbols of the package which exports them....and then erasing those after the user issues it ? 04:32:34 maybe just restart the repl.... 04:32:52 there is cl:delete-package, not sure what it does 04:33:02 how do i make it go to c:\users\tada\quicklisp instead of c:\users\tada\roaming\quicklisp? 04:33:18 here is the code i'm using: (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) 04:33:50 how do i make it go to c:\users\tada\quicklisp instead of c:\users\tada\appdata\roaming\quicklisp? 04:34:12 change the path used in your lisp's initrc file 04:34:25 defaultxr [~defaultxr@207-118-156-129.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:27 where is that file? 04:35:28 where is the initrc file? 04:35:37 -!- defaultxr [~defaultxr@207-118-156-129.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:35:49 if you just put quicklisp.lisp where you want it and load it from there, then do (quicklisp-quickstart:install) then (ql:add-to-init-file) it should do it for you 04:36:11 i did all that already 04:36:36 quicklisp is inside c:\clisp=2.49 04:36:47 get rid of ~ and use full pathname? 04:37:01 hard cod it? 04:37:29 well, what does (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el") return? 04:38:04 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 04:38:32 whats the command again? 04:38:54 c:/Users/Nick/AppData/Roaming/quicklisp/slime-helper.el 04:39:26 so it's expanding ~ to something you don't want. 04:39:35 i'd specify an absolute path 04:39:58 you mean a hard coded path right? 04:40:06 ~ doesn't expand portably anyways afaik 04:40:36 whats the command again? 04:41:34 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.90.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:41:34 it's meta-x? 04:41:44 command to do what? 04:41:59 use slime with emacs 04:42:40 alt-x slime RET 04:43:54 'crapped out: apply: Searching for program: no such file or directory, clisp 04:44:25 you probably need to specify full path in your emacs init file where it specifies inferior-lisp program 04:44:59 -!- Guest79918 [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:34 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:36 teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has joined #lisp 04:45:45 should be a line (setq inferior-lisp-program "C:\path\to\clisp.exe /I") 04:46:04 This is wrong. 04:46:10 "\a" == "a". 04:46:22 oh, "\\" then? 04:46:37 i'm in linux, so just guessing on what his might look like 04:46:48 Well, not "\a" -> "", but "\p" -> "p" and "\c"-> "c" 04:47:19 does "\a" -> ascii 10 or something? 04:47:26 Most things escape to themselves. 04:47:31 you can use forward slashes in paths on windwos normally 04:47:37 good to know. 04:47:38 (setq inferior-lisp-program "C:/path/to/clisp.exe") should work. 04:47:38 04:47:39 The unmagical version of "a" is "a". 04:47:42 GREAT got it working but it still doestn't work!!! 04:47:51 lispnewbie, how so? 04:47:55 c:/my/path/goes/here/clisp.exe 04:47:57 how can i use format to not insert NIL in the string if a substitution is nil? 04:48:09 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 04:48:14 (progn (load "c:/users/nick/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/slime-20120407-cvs/swank-loader.lisp" :verbose t) (funcall (read-from-string "swank-loader:init")) (funcall (read-from-string "swank:start-server") "c:/Users/Nick/AppData/Local/Temp/slime.1376")) *** - LOAD: A file with name \i does not exist Process inferior-lisp finished 04:48:36 replace your substitution with (or "") ? 04:49:09 lispnewbie: a variable whose name contains -program should contain what? Arguments? 04:49:15 oh, you probably don't need the /I flag 04:49:27 whats /I? 04:49:56 in linux you need to pass clisp -I flag to work better w/emacs/slime/ or something 04:50:00 probably not needed in windows 04:50:15 i have it commented out from years ago--i'm using sbcl atm 04:50:45 -I was useful with ilisp. That's really old. 04:51:13 Connected. May the source be with you! 04:51:15 that's right. it was ilisp. it has been a long time 04:51:34 now what????? 04:51:51 now load your quicklisp.lisp file into a buffer and C-c C-l 04:52:16 or did you already do that from the cmd ? 04:52:23 the one i downloaded or my source code? 04:52:38 i had it autoload 04:52:47 ah, then you're ready to start coding 04:53:13 you can test it: (ql:system-apropos "xyz") 04:54:12 well i loaded my source code and did it 04:54:47 sounds like you're all set 04:55:28 great thanks everyone! Now i can finally go to sleep in peace. 04:56:06 benny` [~benny@i577A8B0E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:56:41 -!- lispnewbie [6c23a916@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.35.169.22] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:57:31 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:57:39 Radium [~carbon@117.203.13.89] has joined #lisp 05:01:10 -!- benny` is now known as benny 05:02:16 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:08:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:09:20 clhs list 05:09:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 05:09:26 yay, reconnect in the wild worked 05:09:36 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 05:09:52 -!- vsync [~vsync@BLISTER.QUADIUM.NET] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:10:29 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:11:11 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:43 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:17:51 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:19:04 Mailtruck [~textual@c-76-112-19-19.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:47 -!- ihyoyoung is now known as hyoyoung 05:22:53 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:23:17 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81A1D4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:25:02 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:24 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:31:17 davlaps [~davlaps@adsl-99-64-115-26.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:00 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mn-10k-dhcp1-5344.dsl.hickorytech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:09 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:56 -!- mtd_ is now known as mtd 05:40:03 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-smbemdahczzqship] has joined #lisp 05:40:03 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-smbemdahczzqship] has quit [Changing host] 05:40:03 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:40:06 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-pmdcilrbqcrecgtu] has joined #lisp 05:40:25 -!- kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-pmdcilrbqcrecgtu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:41:19 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:42 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:42:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:44:53 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-131-188.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:45:08 jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 05:47:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:47:29 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:18 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-9-73.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:27 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-118-226.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:13 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-85.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:51:11 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@adsl-99-64-115-26.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:51:12 Flatlander [~tomppa@b27.kiulu.jyu.fi] has joined #lisp 05:52:29 and1_ [~namtsui@c-67-164-94-142.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:36 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 06:04:26 -!- and1_ [~namtsui@c-67-164-94-142.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:04:45 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 06:05:29 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:37 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:07:31 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:47 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 06:13:36 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 06:14:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:23:08 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 06:24:37 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:26:01 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:31:01 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:35:58 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-17-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:14 randphu [~yaaic@117.136.9.137] has joined #lisp 06:38:06 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:54 kornshell [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/skulls] has joined #lisp 06:40:40 -!- jeekl_ is now known as jeekl 06:42:10 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-85.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:47:03 there's no built-in predicate to test if a character is a hexadecimal digit, is there? 06:48:00 robot-beethoven: digit-char-p 06:49:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ophnnqmduugpspjx] has joined #lisp 06:49:57 fukushima [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 -!- fukushim_ [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:51:58 Bike: perfect! -- it's funny to me, I 'sensed' CL would have this 06:52:32 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:53:43 -!- scombinator [~user@121-73-59-25.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:57 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 06:56:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:57:03 araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has joined #lisp 06:57:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has quit [Changing host] 06:57:03 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:57:07 sadly roman-numeral-seq-p didn't make it the cut 06:57:53 -!- jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:57:59 jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 06:58:20 -!- jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Client Quit] 06:58:29 jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has joined #lisp 07:00:15 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 07:00:19 they probably didn't want to encourage such an innefficient (character-wise) representation 07:00:37 -!- copperx [~rafa@adsl-75-54-98-59.dsl.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: copperx] 07:04:38 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 07:04:48 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-17-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 07:05:18 -!- Mailtruck [~textual@c-76-112-19-19.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:07:10 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:07:38 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177960550.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 07:13:08 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:19 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:16:44 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.145.136.106] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:21:06 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c004c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21:09 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:01 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 07:22:04 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:23:00 having trouble loading anything asdf/quicklisp--stuck on "Class not yet defined: CL+SSL::SSL-ERROR" 07:24:29 -!- EarlGray^ is now known as EarlGray 07:24:48 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:25:58 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:04 found it via google. 07:27:12 -!- Mandus_ is now known as Mandus 07:28:03 ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 07:28:22 morning 07:28:25 morning 07:32:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-9-73.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: el sleepo] 07:33:26 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:35:06 ezakimak: sometimes the asdf files are not correctly defined, so they may or may not load the dependencies before the dependents. 07:35:08 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:27 ezakimak: grep for ssl-error and see in what files it's used. Check that the asd is well defined. 07:39:57 -!- Flatlander [~tomppa@b27.kiulu.jyu.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:41:19 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:42:01 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 07:47:09 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 07:47:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:54:14 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:35 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:55:03 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-71-100.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:03 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:15 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:58 -!- tdubellz is now known as doratheexplorer 08:05:18 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:05:29 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:06:25 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 08:06:31 -!- doratheexplorer is now known as bellz 08:08:46 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:49 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:04 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:10:21 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:35 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:23 _main_ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:51 -!- jake__ [~jake@74.213.226.253] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:15:12 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 08:15:50 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:31 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:17:54 -!- bellz is now known as tdubellz 08:18:47 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-70.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-203.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:21:37 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:26:42 -!- randphu [~yaaic@117.136.9.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:27:27 free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 08:29:36 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:31:22 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-64-156.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:31:31 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-20-111.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:35:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.86] has joined #lisp 08:35:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.86] has quit [Changing host] 08:35:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:35:36 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-96-159.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:35:47 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:36:43 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 08:36:50 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:58 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 08:40:03 behelit [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:41:39 ok, so i've been reading a few lisp tutorials. i see different implementations mentiond (sbcl, gcl etc). how do i determine which one to choose? is there a de facto standard implementation, or an implementation that is suitable for newbies? 08:42:06 behelit: most people use sbcl here, and ccl is also popular. 08:43:03 behelit: personally, i find ccl to be more friendly and approachable, but i'm using sbcl mostly because i need the performance. ccl is not slow, but sbcl is faster. 08:43:35 H4ns: ok, is code written for ccl compatible with sbcl? 08:43:46 behelit: if you make it like that, then yes. 08:44:56 behelit: i.e. you need to use compatibility libraries like usocket or trivial-shell or cffi rather than calling the implementation specific functions for network, o/s interaction or foreign function invocation. 08:45:44 randphu [~yaaic@117.136.9.137] has joined #lisp 08:45:46 H4ns: i see, but the implementation specific versions would be "easier" (require less work) to use? 08:45:59 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:46:22 behelit: yes. but with quicklisp, the value of "easier" is pretty low nowadays 08:47:02 and quicklisp is some kind of package manager? 08:47:42 behelit: right. it is the way to install libraries. 08:47:45 minion: quicklisp 08:47:51 quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 08:48:01 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 08:49:13 H4ns: ok, i think i'll give ccl a try. thanks a lot for your time. 08:49:23 behelit: sure. enjoy! 08:49:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:50:31 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201.251.103.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 08:51:13 H4ns: and sorry, ccl would refer to clozure-cl? 08:51:58 behelit: correct 08:52:16 behelit: well, ccl or "clozure common lisp" to be precise 08:52:25 thanks! 08:52:28 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:52:36 behelit: you use my program what-implementation. 08:52:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.211.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:53 reb` [user@nat/google/x-pqioxpbhgawlrdyp] has joined #lisp 08:53:07 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:53:20 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/small-cl-pgms/what-implementation.lisp 08:55:16 Click on the raw blob data link and download it: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/raw/master/small-cl-pgms/what-implementation.lisp 08:56:01 then load it with whatever implementation you have: clisp -l what-implementation.lisp and evaluate: (com.informatimago.what-implementation:choose-an-implementation) answering the questions. 08:57:39 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-amjstqrmoxjcrhys] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:58:19 Eventually that'll be integrated in some bot. 09:00:48 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0BCB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:05:22 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:23 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-pqioxpbhgawlrdyp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:29 Skola [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 09:09:18 reb` [user@nat/google/x-prymjvctznkebhrw] has joined #lisp 09:09:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:11:56 RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.60.119.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 09:12:06 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:12:26 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-182-174.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:20 pjb: i'm already working hard in ccl; thanks for the link though! :) 09:15:01 -!- randphu [~yaaic@117.136.9.137] has quit [] 09:17:53 behelit: run it, and tell us if ccl is your right choice! 09:18:07 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:18:59 add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:21:45 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:22:29 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-llbkoqyzoyururdf] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:23:15 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 09:23:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:29:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:30:02 -!- Dodek [am291698@duch.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:30:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:30:31 Dodek [am291698@duch.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 09:32:39 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:33:54 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@122.166.165.49] has joined #lisp 09:33:54 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@122.166.165.49] has quit [Changing host] 09:33:54 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 09:33:56 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:35:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 09:35:34 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 09:37:58 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.13.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:38:40 Radium [~carbon@117.203.11.79] has joined #lisp 09:40:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:43:17 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:25 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:43:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:44:19 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 09:44:41 morning 09:44:57 asvil [~asvil@178.121.172.225] has joined #lisp 09:45:01 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:46:07 hi splittist 09:46:45 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 09:53:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.86] has joined #lisp 09:53:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.86] has quit [Changing host] 09:53:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:54:45 macobo [~macobo@sein.ut.ee] has joined #lisp 09:55:18 -!- Xof__ is now known as Xof 09:57:38 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 09:57:54 Is there any way to see docstrings associated with initargs via (documentation 'thing 'type)? Using 'type only brings up the class doc on my SBCL. 09:58:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:58:32 hello. is it possible to write a function that loads asdf system at runtime when called, and calls a function from that system, from a package that did not previously exist? 09:59:42 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:59:44 sezo: one easy way is to put the (asdf:load-system ...) and (system:top-level-function) into a file and LOAD (not compile) that. 10:00:12 sezo: (funcall (intern "function" :new-package)) ? 10:00:21 sezo: you can also use read-from-string or find-symbol 10:00:22 i wanted to optionally load a system, only when that function is called 10:00:26 flip214: intern is totally wrong. 10:01:05 H4ns: why? if the package (and therefor, the symbol) doesn't exist at compile-time, we have to get it at runtime 10:01:10 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 10:01:13 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:01:21 flip214: right. you said it. find-symbol is what you want. 10:01:25 so I would load that file from within my function? 10:01:32 oh, ok. 10:01:45 sezo: either that, or use (funcall (find-symbol #:name-of-entry-point :package-name)) 10:02:08 sezo: really (funcall (find-symbol '#:name-of-entry-point :package-name)) 10:03:44 flip214: i exaggerated obviously, but i'm seeing intern too often when find-symbol is what would be right :) 10:04:07 h4ns how do you mean either? I still have to load the system somewhere 10:04:22 H4ns: yes, you're right ... if the package isn't loaded at (intern) time, the next (defpackage) might see conflicts ... so (find-symbol) it is 10:04:25 sezo: yes. if you use funcall as above, you can just load the system. 10:04:35 ah 10:05:06 flip214: that, and it makes no sense to intern the symbol because if it would not exist, there would also be no function to call under that name. 10:07:04 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:08:49 pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:10 worked great thanks! 10:11:42 if I got it right we called find-package instead of accessing the symbol directly to prevent reader from reading a symbol from a package that does not exist until we call a function? 10:11:54 sezo: correct. 10:12:24 sezo: when you LOAD a file, each top-level form is read and evaluated in sequence. 10:14:25 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:14:41 harish [~harish@119.234.1.2] has joined #lisp 10:22:23 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 10:29:37 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:31:04 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 10:35:49 man my syntaxic lisp highlighter dissapoints... Either that or I'm really bad at choosing colors.. Looks much worse then I had expected 10:36:17 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:36:30 http://i.imgur.com/CArGw.png 10:36:30 10:37:44 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 10:40:04 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-klusbdaceiseoozn] has joined #lisp 10:40:33 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23DAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:59 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 10:42:12 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.98.61] has joined #lisp 10:42:40 multicolored background was done on purpose? 10:43:22 looks fine other than that 10:43:35 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.98.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:40 maxm-: in my opinion the gray background only makes things worse. 10:43:42 oh dear internets, you don't stop to surpise me! 10:43:49 gray background is my default one 10:44:14 the whole thing is to allow coloring conds/lets and such, to color individual elements differently 10:44:24 I prefer whiteish background, greater contrast 10:44:29 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:44:39 as working on 300 line COND (yes I know), I sometimes get lost where the boundaries of each condition/body is 10:44:48 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:44:59 sn0rri [~sn0rri@athedsl-172390.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 10:45:00 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:02 in this example cond condition/bodies have diff background added 10:45:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:45:22 actually trying italic for conditions may not be bad 10:47:00 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 10:47:24 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:49:33 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 10:53:12 -!- macobo [~macobo@sein.ut.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:56:05 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@athedsl-172390.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:59:07 Here it is with condition face with height 0.85, and with touch of gray to text color http://i.imgur.com/Q6ViB.png 10:59:43 unfortunately using different fonts screw up indentation 11:00:35 see hl-sexp 11:00:40 http://edward.oconnor.cx/elisp/hl-sexp.el 11:00:47 maxm-: why not just have a keystroke to collapse the conditions etc - a sexp-based outliner 11:00:59 you will have different background colors per nested level 11:01:07 splittist: somehow I thought coloring them differently will look better 11:01:21 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:01:28 can't really figure if its good until you look at it, now I'm disappointed a bit.. 11:02:06 macobo [~macobo@193.40.12.10] has joined #lisp 11:02:16 I think I'll just go with making conditions italic 11:02:43 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:04:12 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.Red-88-11-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:48 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 11:13:39 Shaftoe: if you want, you may send me your objc bridge, I'll try to make it work with GNUstep; it uses libobjc2 too. 11:14:27 hi pjb: I'll send it to you in a few weeks sans fautes. This week in particular is kinda hairy at work so I'm not going to get to advance on it at all. 11:24:44 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:25:16 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:25:28 Shaftoe: ok. 11:26:48 dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:27:14 pjb: If you really want to, I can email it to you just so you can play around, but it would be on the condition that you don't publish it and you don't do any substantial work on it. I want to get a few basic macros in place before the thing settles into a form. 11:27:56 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:00 -!- krl is now known as blechx 11:34:01 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 11:34:29 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has left #lisp 11:34:36 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 11:35:23 is there any open-source graph database for CL ? 11:35:47 _not_ allegro graph for $3000 (or whatever it costs) 11:36:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-20-111.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:02 anonus: not AFAIK 11:37:11 sad :( 11:37:44 i do not need sparql/rdf storage, any general graph db is ok 11:39:35 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.1.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:45 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890229.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:39:52 -!- tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-18-231.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:41:52 sn0rri [~sn0rri@athedsl-170094.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:43:02 -!- nuba_ is now known as nuba 11:43:15 http://common-lisp.net/project/vivace-graph/ - OH YEAH :3 11:46:11 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:38 -!- Phoon_ [~tanuki@pool-71-180-6-96.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Phoon_] 11:46:46 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:36 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@athedsl-170094.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:50:09 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:50:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-71-100.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:50:34 thaum [~arun@122.179.99.128] has joined #lisp 11:50:51 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 11:50:54 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:14 HUGO-BOSS [deaththrow@41.138.190.210] has joined #lisp 11:51:36 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:54:13 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-51.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:39 -!- tsuru is now known as Guest87175 11:56:15 -!- Guest87175 [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-51.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:28 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-51.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:53 fukushim_ [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:57:33 -!- HUGO-BOSS [deaththrow@41.138.190.210] has quit [] 11:58:28 -!- fukushima [~fukushima@z1.61-193-209.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:58:29 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-51.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:54 Shaftoe: I can way a couple of weeks, thanks. (I still have to install GNUstep properly, for now I can't launch GNUstep applications). 11:59:11 ok. willco 11:59:58 snearch [~snearch@f053015234.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:00:41 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-021.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:02:40 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-51.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:11 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-51.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:06:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-021.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09:06 Ragnaroek1 [~Adium@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:38 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:05 [SLB] [casper@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:15:53 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:19:59 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.204] has joined #lisp 12:20:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.204] has quit [Client Quit] 12:20:33 wtf 12:20:47 why uuid lib wants to run /sbin/ifconfig ? o_O 12:21:12 it assumes that the ethernet mac address is globally unique, i guess 12:22:03 is for type 1 UUID, isn't it ? 12:22:15 but why such crap code ? 12:22:15 i don't know. 12:22:25 i have ifconfig in bin not in sbin 12:22:28 and it dying 12:22:51 caleb_smith [~caleb@rrcs-98-101-157-31.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:00 -!- caleb_smith [~caleb@rrcs-98-101-157-31.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 12:23:06 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.204] has joined #lisp 12:24:39 anonus: make a symlink 12:25:11 \o/ 12:25:22 T_T 12:25:43 but anyway it's huge overhead 12:25:48 ah, wathever 12:25:59 i think no one care 12:26:18 cares 12:28:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:30:53 anonus: and there is no option in the library to provide the mac address manually? 12:33:26 jdz: don't know, but this lib used in another lib that used in another lib so even if it is, there is not help 12:33:29 *no help 12:35:57 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-022.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:38:17 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.90.134] has joined #lisp 12:42:16 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:46:37 -!- macobo [~macobo@193.40.12.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:29 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 12:49:04 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-213-75.w109-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:49:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-022.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:59 does anyone have a good cl tutorial to recommend? 12:53:12 minion: tell behelit about pcl 12:53:23 behelit: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 12:53:35 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:47 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-156-59.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:55:59 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.11.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:56:03 H4ns: thanks again! 12:56:15 Radium [~carbon@117.203.8.77] has joined #lisp 12:56:42 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-5.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:58:03 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:58:22 Hi all. Are :test-not argument and *-if-not functions for sequences deprecated now? 12:58:29 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 12:58:42 Hello. 12:59:01 asvil: they were deprecated over twenty years ago, but people still use them 12:59:03 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 12:59:05 wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:05 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:59:07 asvil: I wouldn't worry about it 12:59:45 dlowe: thanks. 13:00:10 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gxbtblkcidzatmjj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:00:30 I think they wanted to push people towards using (complement function) instead, but it's not really advantageous in any way 13:00:54 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:04:10 It is more convenient, when complement fn is used inside standard functions, instead of using complement fn manually. 13:05:32 -!- thaum [~arun@122.179.99.128] has left #lisp 13:12:55 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:14:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.220] has joined #lisp 13:15:30 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.Red-88-11-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:15:38 dlowe: I thought that remove-if-not is no longer deprecated? 13:15:55 oh, and BTW: just got "Value of 'NIL in (THE NIL 'NIL) is NIL, not a NIL." 13:17:29 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:59 flip214: NIL is of type NULL 13:19:20 and there's no mechanism to undeprecate something in the standard 13:19:30 never mind, just thought that the message is funny 13:19:36 but neither is it going anywhere 13:19:42 well, I got the impression that the deprecation is deprecated 13:19:44 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:03 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-044.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:20:51 flip214, the universe is deprecated. Billions have already adopted the next one. 13:20:52 mk2` [~user@194.94.33.210] has joined #lisp 13:21:09 Fare: multiverse believer? 13:23:08 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:26 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:23:34 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-69-203-204-197.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:25:49 macobo [~macobo@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:26:05 multiverse /traveller/... 13:27:07 only if it's true. just a believer if it's false ... 13:27:43 zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@94-21-146-36.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 13:28:55 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:29:35 flip214: you don't think all that ITA stuff was really about mapping something as mundane as travel arrangements, do you? 13:30:15 ah, that's the reason ... ok, thanks. where can I book a special travel, not the ordinary tourist routes through the multiverse? 13:30:42 -!- [SLB] [casper@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Il motivo per cui le persone sono meravigliose, non è forse perché credono nei sentimenti e uniscono le loro vite? ]] 13:30:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-044.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:32:44 Joreji [~thomas@73-033.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:39:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:42:36 -!- zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@94-21-146-36.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:17 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-prymjvctznkebhrw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:44:53 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:45:34 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:51 well, Google bought us, so we can't talk about that now. 13:46:32 rme [~rme@50.43.187.220] has joined #lisp 13:47:32 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.208] has joined #lisp 13:50:03 slyrus [~chatzilla@209.52.84.50] has joined #lisp 13:50:19 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:51:08 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:07 paul0 [~user@201.22.85.100.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:53:20 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@220.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-033.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57:59 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:59:05 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.139] has joined #lisp 14:00:48 teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has joined #lisp 14:01:25 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:01:45 _danb_ [~user@124-168-46-173.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:02:27 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:44 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:35 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:04 ainm [~ainm@232.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:40 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:06:02 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:39 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:15 metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:07:29 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:08:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:13 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:08 neena [neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has joined #lisp 14:16:38 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015234.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:16:44 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:18:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:20:06 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:29 optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has joined #lisp 14:24:16 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:25:43 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:25:48 Greetings lispers 14:30:52 Hi ThomasH 14:31:32 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.74] has joined #lisp 14:31:52 Hey LiamH, how are you? 14:31:52 Morning, ThomasH. 14:31:53 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@188.19.219.168] has joined #lisp 14:32:13 ThomasH: good 14:32:19 busy 14:32:46 New release of CFFI coming up -- exciting. 14:33:34 LiamH: Yes, same here. I saw that you were doing a lot of CFFI work. Good stuff. Makes since considering all of the FFI experience from GSSL. 14:34:12 *GSLL* rather. 14:34:41 And *sense* 14:34:51 *ThomasH* drinks some more coffee. 14:35:00 ThomasH: yeah, I folded FSBV into CFFI. Writing FSBV took about 6 weeks, folding it in to CFFI about 6 months. But it's *much* better now. 14:35:31 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-156-59.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:54 dodecahedron [~joel@lolnet.org] has joined #lisp 14:37:16 -!- metaphysician [~metaphysi@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:37:16 -!- dodecahedron [~joel@lolnet.org] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:38 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:39 LiamH: Not surprised. Funny how that works. 14:38:39 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-552-1-286-234.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:43:08 It's remarkable how readable c.l.l is when WJ is taking a break. 14:44:14 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:45:35 Really. That's encouraging. Been hoping he'd go away... 14:45:41 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@82.131.60.119.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:46:55 expand WJ, pls 14:47:47 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:47:55 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:33 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:37 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ophnnqmduugpspjx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:51:39 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120403211507]] 14:52:28 fade: he's a troll on c.l.l that ruils pretty much every attempt a rational discussion there 14:52:49 pnathan: Don't keep your hopes up. He's taken breaks before 14:52:57 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:53:07 Probably learning the next language to use in his trolling. 14:55:00 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 14:56:17 dlila [~dlila@72.53.70.164] has joined #lisp 14:57:39 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 15:00:22 joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has joined #lisp 15:00:27 -!- Ragnaroek1 [~Adium@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:02:15 -!- daintihood [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:05:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:07:08 *nod* 15:12:21 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.8.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:44 Radium [~carbon@117.203.8.77] has joined #lisp 15:13:23 antonv [2e35c32a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.42] has joined #lisp 15:15:52 -!- Skola [~Skola@89.184.179.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:16:24 -!- behelit [~behelit@c213-89-59-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 15:16:35 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:54 lemoinem [~swoog@185-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:50 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:04 daintihood [~sunglass@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:20:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:28 hi 15:21:45 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:21:48 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has joined #lisp 15:21:54 it seems to me that l1sp.org isn't answering, is it something local? if not, who should i warn? (i thought Xach, but he doesn't seem to be here). 15:21:56 hello Posterdati 15:22:35 Skola [~Skola@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 15:23:15 l1sp.org resolves, but the server isn't answering. 15:25:25 *madnificent* wonders if he should be glad or sad right now 15:27:56 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-10-42.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:56 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-10-42.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:54 madnificent: it seems to be fixed already, in typical xach style 15:29:29 Vivitron: great! thanks :) 15:29:48 it hasn't answered for most of the day here, but i'm glad it's back 15:30:01 hmm, i didn't use it that much, may just be the last few hours 15:33:57 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:34:44 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:37:50 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:41:18 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:44:17 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (Session timeout)] 15:44:56 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has joined #lisp 15:45:52 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has left #lisp 15:49:07 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.226] has joined #lisp 15:49:27 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-17-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:51:27 -!- Skola [~Skola@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:52:47 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:54:14 sacho [~sacho@46.10.6.113] has joined #lisp 15:54:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:54:37 <_schulte_> anyone have any idea what could be suspending my long-running, thread-using, external process calling SBCL process? See http://paste.lisp.org/display/128982/raw 15:55:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:56:12 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.204] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 15:58:48 bad use of locks? 15:59:22 a race condition is so easily introduced. 15:59:24 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0BCB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:46 "thread-using" jumps out at me there. 15:59:55 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:03 how would I combine multiple functions that output html using cl-who? 16:00:11 <_schulte_> yea, and I haven't seen this problem when I'm not using threads. So maybe this is a problem with EagerFuture2? 16:00:43 <_schulte_> there is no processor spin up though, rather the lisp process is suspended as if it were waiting for I/O to complete 16:00:55 <_schulte_> I'm trying to reproduce the problem with ccl instead of sbcl now 16:02:09 Eager Future2 looks fun. 16:02:11 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:02:23 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:03:05 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.204] has joined #lisp 16:03:08 <_schulte_> so far I've found it really easy to use, made pmapcar into a 2-line function... although if it is implicated in this current problem my review may change :) 16:04:02 _schulte_: fork+threads+locks => "fun" 16:04:18 _schulte_: can you reproduce the problem with ccl? 16:04:31 <_schulte_> installing ccl now, so I'll find out in a bit 16:05:12 mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.10] has joined #lisp 16:05:16 _schulte_: I assume you're using sb-ext:run-program? 16:05:27 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:05:59 <_schulte_> ThomasH: no, trivial shell, which I tried wrapping in trivial-timeout in case the shell processes were hanging but to no effect 16:06:32 _schulte_: "trivial-timeout" haha 16:06:41 <_schulte_> or rather yes, calling sb-ext:run-program through the trivial-shell library 16:06:47 _schulte_: did you see any timeouts before the hanging occured? 16:06:59 <_schulte_> no 16:07:05 ok 16:08:05 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 16:08:07 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:14 _schulte_: How are you communicating with the shell scripts? 16:08:54 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:13 <_schulte_> ThomasH: just calling them with arguments, and then reading their results from stdout. no communication while they're running 16:09:54 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:40 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-46-173.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:30 CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:29 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-17-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 16:13:16 _schulte_: It's hard to diagnose without code. My suspicion is that you're not properly handling communication with the scripts and that SBCL is waiting for the result even though the scripts have finished, which they appear to have. 16:15:30 -!- rme [rme@591A099.BE4DF583.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 16:15:31 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.187.220] has quit [Quit: rme] 16:17:28 <_schulte_> ThomasH: thanks, that does sound like the most plausible given the Sl+ state of the sbcl process (which means something like waiting for I/O). see http://paste.lisp.org/display/128983 16:18:09 <_schulte_> as far as I can tell this is a straightforward invocation of the sb-ext:run-program function through the trivial-shell library, maybe I'll try calling directly (w/o trivial-shell) and see if that helps 16:20:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-97.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:20:28 -!- harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:34 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:22:33 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 16:23:33 harish [~harish@cm50.beta157.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:24:41 brown [user@nat/google/x-dmqomhamvnakyqup] has joined #lisp 16:25:08 -!- brown is now known as Guest21141 16:25:24 -!- Guest21141 is now known as reb 16:25:43 davlaps [~davlaps@204-16-154-194-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:39 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:29:33 rme [~rme@50.43.187.220] has joined #lisp 16:33:44 <_schulte_> so, it looks like the shell script are the problem, as they hang powerfully enough to freeze up their parent process (be that a sbcl thread or my interactive shell). Thanks all for the pointers 16:34:32 -!- starji [~starji@c-76-105-137-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:36:31 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:36:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:39:56 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.210] has joined #lisp 16:40:00 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:43:01 -!- CampinSam [~Sam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:35 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:41 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:44:41 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45:18 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:19 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping 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17:48:04 kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.74] has joined #lisp 17:48:04 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.74] has quit [Changing host] 17:48:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:48:29 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c004c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:16 -!- paul0 [~user@201.22.85.100.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:29 hi 17:50:27 Hey prxq 17:51:39 for communicating with external scripts, you might want to try inferior-shell. 17:55:08 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-85-44.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 17:55:33 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 17:56:23 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 17:56:53 -!- pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:57:27 -!- starji [~starji@c-98-246-168-126.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:49 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:00:48 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 18:02:31 <_schulte_> Fare: will check it out 18:04:51 if you have a race condition, it might not help. 18:05:33 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:17 -!- mk2` [~user@194.94.33.210] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:06:30 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:09:34 thepreacher_ [~thepreach@239.95.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:19 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:12:24 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@87.113.202.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:43 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:13:43 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:15 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping 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seconds] 18:32:14 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:34 thepreacher_ [~thepreach@87.115.152.17] has joined #lisp 18:34:51 thesaskwatch [~mateusz@159-205-199-157.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 18:35:16 hi, I'm trying to clone cl-asdf but git hangs, is it some known issue? 18:36:31 -!- thepreacher__ [~thepreach@105.50.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40:09 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:33 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 18:46:59 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 18:48:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-82.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:49:22 starji [~starji@c-76-105-137-85.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:55 -!- Combatjuan [~charwood@24.111.12.82] has left #lisp 18:50:58 thesaskwatch: cloning from where ? 18:53:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:22 I was cloning from http://common-lisp.net/projects/asdf/asdf.git, but I gave up, I downloaded built package and modified PKGBUILD to use it 18:53:24 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:54:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:54:12 So am I correct in the understanding that GNU Global does not do Lisp symbols? 18:54:42 i.e. that GNU Global cannot associate tags with Common Lisp source code. 18:55:13 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:55:27 easye: from the GNU Global website: support C, C++, Yacc, Java and PHP4 18:55:31 so I'm guessing not 18:55:32 chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #lisp 18:55:37 CL isn't on their plans http://www.gnu.org/software/global/plans.html 18:56:05 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 18:56:26 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:27 Funny. I thought I just saw a recommendation by a Lisp Luminary (TM) for using GNU Global. Must be for non-CL code... 18:56:37 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 18:56:56 scheme is on the list 18:57:04 Why would you need GNU Global for lisp? Any decent CL IDE already does that. 18:57:28 Well, I'm very happy with SLIME. 18:57:33 *easye* lives in Emacs. 18:57:58 -!- thesaskwatch [~mateusz@159-205-199-157.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:57:58 i've never felt a lacking with SLIME 18:58:06 I certainly do feel it when coding C++ 18:58:09 But I would love to unify my Emacs Lisp side tags for all the source I deal with. 18:58:25 especially very large systems 18:58:29 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@phlegethon.blisses.org] has joined #lisp 18:58:29 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@phlegethon.blisses.org] has quit [Changing host] 18:58:29 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 18:58:42 Right now, I just use some elisp fu to associate the buffer based on mode with Semantic, ctags, etc. 18:59:39 But for languages like Java, there is still no decent "class hierarchy" explorer in elisp. 18:59:40 I've start to try semantic 18:59:49 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 18:59:54 *easye* isn't impressed with Semantic. 19:00:03 hehe me neither 19:00:21 but it was all I could fine 19:00:22 find* 19:00:32 But maybe I'm not using it right. For one thing, the "jump to a symbol" shortcut is something like 3-4 keystrokes. WTF is *that*? 19:01:17 I really only want some sort of intelli-sense 19:01:19 Maybe I should go bother #emacs. 19:01:50 add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:01:57 Guthur: exactly. A basic sense of package (i.e. namespace) for a tag would be a great start. 19:02:31 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:03:44 my team mate just says 'use eclipse' but that's not what I want 19:03:56 I have too much else in emacs 19:04:02 But since elisp doesn't really have packages--only symbol naming conventions--it makes it a bit tougher. 19:04:16 *easye* has been using Emacs to edit Java since 1995. 19:04:41 does (close-shared-object) work on sbcl? 19:04:47 it seems my lib is still referenced 19:05:20 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:20 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:40 copperx [~rafa@192.94.29.223] has joined #lisp 19:11:59 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 19:13:31 thesaskwatch [~mateusz@77-255-121-112.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 19:13:36 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:04 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 19:14:45 -!- c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.90.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:44 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:17:48 puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:19:41 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:22:39 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@185-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:23:56 lemoinem [~swoog@185-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:43 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29:51 maxm-: depends on the OS 19:30:23 -!- thesaskwatch [~mateusz@77-255-121-112.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:15 opensuse 11.4, sbcl .51 19:32:28 -!- jathd [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 19:32:34 traced it as far as LD_DEBUG=all, showing that when lib is loaded it says direct_opencount=1 19:32:50 but lsof -n | grep shows 2 refs to it, and dlclose() does not unload 19:33:00 probably glibc bug, or some weird elf changes 19:34:30 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 19:34:42 -!- FACEFOX [~facefox@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.facefox.com] 19:35:04 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 19:35:07 FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has joined #lisp 19:35:14 maxm-: that library ? 19:35:45 *what 19:37:16 its my own lib for interface to my market stuff, it C++ using tons of boost and other stuff 19:37:48 but the test case is simply sbcl from cmdline, then (load-shared-object) then (unload-shared-object), no symbols lookup done 19:38:21 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:39:01 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39:07 *maxm-* not going to worry about it, will continue to restart sbcl when updating the C++ side.. just asked in case someone seen similar problem, and knows the solution from top of their head 19:41:19 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:11 thepreacher__ [~thepreach@228.60.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:30 maxm-: try doing the same with some system library, like libssl 19:42:33 works here 19:43:14 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 19:44:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.204] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.95.1] 19:44:38 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-71-238-24-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:49 -!- thepreacher__ [~thepreach@228.60.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:44:55 -!- thepreacher_ [~thepreach@87.115.152.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:44:56 ok works with a simple C lib 19:45:09 gonna try c++ one that is using it 19:45:48 thepreacher [~thepreach@82.141.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:55 yea something with one of the c++ things I'm using 19:47:42 -!- joachifm [~user@2001:1ad8:c:a4b:2e27:d7ff:fea9:27b6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:29 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:50:10 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:50:27 dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:18 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 19:51:24 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@82.141.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:06 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:42 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:46 is there an accepted way to get puri to relax about what it accepts as legal charactes in a uri? 19:57:00 *illegal-characters* is an unexported bit vector... 19:57:36 and doing (setf (aref puri::*illegal-characters* (char-code #\\)) 0) doesn't have the effect I expected. 19:57:56 -!- copperx [~rafa@192.94.29.223] has quit [Quit: copperx] 20:00:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-82.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:41 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:54 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.19] has joined #lisp 20:01:32 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:37 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:03:38 ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 20:03:50 ok, found the culprit 20:03:57 its /usr/lib64/libstdc++.so.6 20:04:04 if you load and unload it, it stays 20:04:16 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:04:32 fe[nl]ix: when you have time, can you try with libstdc++.so.6? just to confirm I'm not seeing things 20:04:37 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:34 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:32 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 20:06:58 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-193.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:07:00 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 20:07:16 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-101-186.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:07:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-85.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:07:46 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:07 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:11:11 redsky [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:21 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 20:11:43 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:52 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:11 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 20:12:50 Kynes`_ [~GTSpyVan1@adsl-75-0-4-201.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:01 How can one evaluate a single expression, via a function (not special op), without throwing out the lexical environment? 20:13:14 -!- Kynes` [~GTSpyVan1@adsl-75-0-9-125.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:13:51 eval is a function. 20:14:13 according to ANSI CL eval tosses out the lexical environment and thus can't be used with let bindings, for example 20:14:52 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:54 redsky: you can't. 20:15:53 redsky: if you post something more specific, we may be able to suggest alternative solutions. 20:15:58 maxm-: libstdc++ doesn't unload 20:16:04 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:16:19 -!- bpg [~bogdan@unassigned-178.80.183.216.net.blink.ca] has left #lisp 20:16:32 fe[nl]ix: ok guess glibc bug.. I already tried #c++, #linux, #kernel, #glibc and #posix.. getting a runaround :-) 20:16:55 bpg [~bogdan@unassigned-178.80.183.216.net.blink.ca] has joined #lisp 20:18:16 sykopomp: getting into specifics generally doesn't turn out well, but the idea is I have a macro with some arguments that need evaluating and some arguments that don't. The ones that do are bound up in a list. Looking for a clean way of simply evaluating the elements of that list, returning a list of evaluated expressions. The expressions to be evaluated will often have variables defined by enclosing environments. 20:18:35 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:36 answer: (setf puri:*strict-parse* nil) 20:20:02 so, has anyone implemented the live-editing/light-tabling/bretvictor/ooh-and-ahh stuff as an elisp/slime addon? because im pretty sure i could do it. 20:20:29 *Fade* nominates dto to do it, because he wants it but has no time to persue the project 20:20:47 looks like blocky is at least part of the way to such a system. 20:20:52 99% of it is just using lisp, "live feedback editing" is a Design Pattern 20:21:54 isn't it just pushing C-M-x? 20:22:04 could I write a function to wrap a progn around each element maybe? 20:22:41 oGMo: mostly yeah, but the UI impresses the shit out of people who only have ever used compile-edit-run 20:23:02 dto: well it's certainly prettier than emacs 20:23:06 redsky: why don't you return a list of expressions that will be evaluated post-expansion? 20:23:35 oGMo: which one, the light table clojurescript stuff, or the bret victor onionskinning stuff 20:23:51 sykopomp: because they need to be evaluated pre-expansion. 20:24:24 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 20:24:37 dto: oh, guess i didn't see the latter 20:24:39 redsky: you can't/shouldn't really do that at compile time, if you're saying what I think you're saying. 20:25:04 oGMo: i think thats what inspired the light tablestuff 20:25:10 ah 20:25:30 either way-----i bet 1000 or less lines of elisp will do it 20:25:42 the light table guy explicitly referenced bret victor's stuff. 20:26:07 dto: how do you do the graphical part of the UI 20:26:08 ? 20:26:09 and it doesn't require being tied to Blocky either 20:26:12 brb 20:27:19 chupish_ [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #lisp 20:27:31 -!- chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:37 -!- chupish_ is now known as chupish 20:28:20 dto: i like the concept but having been working toward something vaguely related i'm happy to use existing stuff until the new stuff is entirely done heh 20:28:21 Fade: which visual part 20:28:28 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@175.Red-88-11-31.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:28:37 oGMo: :) 20:28:53 well, code display primarily. all the UI in the clojurescript demo. 20:28:54 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:58 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 20:30:18 99.99% of my lisping has been server side, so I'm pretty clueless about graphics. 20:30:23 sykopomp: I don't think it's that dissimilar from once-only (see PoAIP or LOL), just with finer-grained control. 20:30:43 i have read the thing and gone through the screenshots, not the video yet. what i saw in the screenshots looked like slime macroexpansion, but being done with functions args as well, down through the call tree. i'm not QUITE as interested in that part . especially as I can see the drill-downs becoming too large to manage and not THAT much more informative than a plain backtrace showing args 20:30:52 Fade: imo you shouldn't have to worry about graphics when you're just working on functionality .. you should get them for free 20:31:09 I would love the world where that is true. :D 20:31:26 as for onionskinning, i need to do that in my game engine, but i will make the elisp side blocky-agnostic 20:31:29 sykopomp: I'm designing a lambda variant that behaves very specifically when certain classes as passed to it, but I need to be able to define the fields of those objects when calling the lambda. 20:31:58 redsky: that's not information you're supposed to have at compile-time, although you can expand code to detect the class at runtime. 20:32:10 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.212.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:11 Fade: with the introspection available in lisp there is no reason it can't 20:32:25 Fade: I was thinking of something simpler. Make a new "GUI toolkit support" for Emacs that maps windows and frames onto a drafting table UI, and expose some extra interfaces 20:32:32 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.212.210] has joined #lisp 20:32:45 anyway, if we get enough of it it would be cool to say "hey, any other visionaries want to pass out their easily-implementable-in-lisp visionariy ideas 20:32:51 you could just remove your window borders from emacs ;) 20:32:54 so that we can improve emacs 20:33:03 I'm not entirely sure that yet a further extension of emacs is the way. 20:33:17 oGMo: well, it would also need to change the way the windows are composed in a frame, IMHO 20:33:37 it would be nice if the emacs elisp environment could be used as a filter to an exterior display context. 20:33:40 Fade: my preferred solution is to separate Elisp programs from Emacs and redo the editor 20:33:50 p_l: well if you're willing to suffer elisp, then librep isn't too much worse .. sawfish allows for a lot of customization 20:33:54 p_l: I think that's a good idea. 20:33:55 venk [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:34:40 I was thinking that stump could be a base for such exploration, but I guess maybe it'd have to be more GL aware. 20:35:04 Fade: so existing *important* library of code would still work, but for example the underlying buffer structures would now be trees with ability to open a giant file as well 20:35:23 what good CLOS database is for CL ? not with prevalence model, because it will be around 1-100 Gb. with indices. 20:35:33 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:35:36 well im off to sleep for now, i'm feeling uncreative on games right now so perhaps implementing this light table ish stuff will be a fun exercise 20:35:37 maybe not clos, but with clos wrapper or similar 20:35:41 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 20:35:52 dto: cheers 20:35:54 anonus: rucksack is reported to work quite well 20:35:58 dto: later 20:36:01 back soon :) 20:36:01 skyopomp: technically yes, the expansion becomes a lot more convoluted and inefficient though. The class itself can disappear before runtime for all I care, it just makes syntax/implementation separation much easier. I could use structs almost as easy I think, not sure. 20:36:24 anonus: there's also ROFL, but I don't know how it would map to your req's 20:36:32 -!- bpg [~bogdan@unassigned-178.80.183.216.net.blink.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:36:46 Fade: well, ROFL is more of an ORM rather than database, wasn't it? 20:36:47 redsky: again, it's not really something you have access to at compile time. 20:37:00 yeah. it's an object protocol on top of postmodern. 20:37:16 sykopomp: What isn't, specifically? evaluation within a lexical environment? 20:37:49 p_l: thanks, i'll try, looks interesting. 20:37:51 my understand is all of lisp is available at compiletime, it's only runtime that's constrained (no macros) 20:38:09 Fade: very search-proof name for library =/ 20:38:24 anonus: ROFL = relational-objects-for-lisp 20:38:27 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:32 oh, thanks ) 20:40:15 btw how usable cl-tokyocabinet, does anyone tried it ? 20:40:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:41:15 no idea about cl-tokyocabinet, cl-tc kinda stopped at 80% of the C bridge before getting the lispy api 20:41:28 anonus: yeah. drewc's naming convention has that unfortunate side effect. 20:41:36 dto: don't know how much it compares, but my working flow with openqt is very similar 20:41:39 heh 20:41:51 trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-131-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:02 p_l: are cl-tc and cl-tokyocabinet not the same ? =\ 20:42:02 dto: ie I have a "live" window on my screen that I scroll and do stuff with, and I C-c C-c methods acting on it 20:42:11 anonus: no, cl-tc was my abortive project :) 20:42:25 no idea if it's still on GitHub 20:42:43 really helps that in Qt every widget can be top level window, so you can really build tiny modules, ie build a separate combobox function, testing the combobox by itself, then assemble the pieces into 1 dialog 20:42:48 hehe, ok, i definitly should try cl-tokyocabinet ) 20:43:43 there are in docs some notes about rucksack that it uses some lispwork's MOP magic, is it compatible with sbcl ? 20:44:02 right, regarding GUI drawing... slightly OT, but should I make different widgets into subwindows in X11 (assume low-level X11 use) or should I manually track which event goes where? 20:44:06 anonus: it works on SBCL 20:44:14 same on CCL, I think 20:44:22 but should work flawlessly on SBCL 20:44:34 ok, good 20:44:44 lets fill it with data 20:45:12 redsky: you should think of macros as operating on static, literal data, which just happens to be regular lisp data. 20:45:14 sykopomp: why wouldn't a function with progn work? (let ((this 4)) (funcall (lambda (x) (progn x)) (+ 3 this))) 20:45:23 but not necessarily your program's data. 20:45:26 *anonus* cums when doing benchmarking 20:45:49 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:55 TMI 20:46:16 ... 20:46:18 >_> 20:46:25 dude, not funny 20:46:49 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:47:13 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:16 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:07 TimKack [~user@c-2ec21d0f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:32 sykopomp: possibly I am misinterpreting what's happening there. But I'll get busy designing my own solution then. Since the standard answer to the bottom-up programmer seems to be "you shouldn't think of X as that, you should use it like so". 20:49:27 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:49:34 sykopomp: the idea is to have my own lambdalike construct that I use without caring about the underlying implementation. If I have to quote the body or manually evaluate the arguments beforehand, it's ugly. 20:50:03 redsky: I guess if you don't want to hear other people's answers, you may want to avoid asking about it. My opinion is that you may be misunderstanding macros. 20:50:13 that, or I'm misunderstanding your explanation of the problem. 20:50:34 I am have a hard time understanding exactly what redsky is trying to accomplish. 20:51:02 in any case, the quick and dirty answer is "if you want your macro to do things conditional on the run-time value of a variable, expand to code that will test those constraints at compile-time, unless the data is *literal*" 20:52:04 also, "no, you can't evaluate lexical variables at compile time" 20:52:45 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-130-86.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:52:46 easyE [gJ0QKmlUHP@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:16 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-39-193.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:55:22 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:51 maxm-: are you working out of the main common-qt repo? 20:58:03 -!- EyesIsMine [~Eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:07 no I have my own branch on http://github.com/7max 20:58:19 sykopomp: I want to be able to say (f@lambda (($ field1 field2 field2) regular-arg ($ field1) (call-this-function-on arg1 arg2)) (mybody)), where $ denotes arguments that will be treated very differently as governed by the fields. furthermore, I do not want the f@lambda macro to parse the $ forms, I want $ to denote an object-building function, because other stuff will be using the the same arg-objects. f@lambda will detect the obj 20:58:19 ects given as args and will retrieve the appropriate fields as needed. 20:58:46 hi 20:58:57 Fade: main repo does not appear to be active, most active guy on github seems to be ivan4, he has several fixes I wanna merge, like on the stack marshalling for some stuff 20:59:17 sykopomp: actually, I might be able to do this as a macro wrapper around a function... 21:00:06 it'd be nice if all that stuff got passed on to the main repository. 21:00:08 Fade: my main fixes are mostly 1. better print-object 2. Some speedups 3. Marshalling for QVector and QVector, which are needed for QPolygonF's 21:01:03 lichtblau is usually pretty repsonsive. :) 21:01:13 ah i thought he delegated to stassats 21:01:20 oh.. maybe he has 21:01:25 I haven't been watching very closely. 21:01:28 who said he might look at my stuff, or he might not 21:01:55 *maxm-* does not care much as long I put it out there for ppl.. I'll merge what stuff I find useful, fix the rest 21:02:07 you should make a vid of the system you were talking about. I'd like to see how it works. 21:02:19 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:30 Fade: there is a video of around 2-3 week old prototype from a year ago 21:02:38 google commonqt chart 21:02:39 sykopomp: actually that is a woefully inadequate and confusing simplification, so nevermind. Pretty sure I can do this as some kind of wrapper 21:03:54 interesting 21:04:36 do you have any interest in doing a tutorial introduction to commonqt? 21:04:42 ur5us [~ur5us@17.196.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 21:05:45 -!- asvil [~asvil@37.45.215.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:05:52 not really, no time and my stuff is using code munching rewriter to provide dotted calls syntax, ie (view.scene.setBackgroundMode (Qt.SomeConstant)) 21:06:04 which people find contriversial 21:06:44 how is that call rewritten? 21:07:58 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:03 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:04 (progn (optimized-call t (optimized-call t view "scene") "setBackgroundMode" (optimized-call t "Qt" "SomeConstant"))) 21:08:39 optimized-call is CommonQt macro that resolves the method to smoke at compile time and caches it, so its faster then it looks 21:08:42 -!- redsky [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:14 well, the dot syntax looks like a reasonable way to compress that. 21:11:30 even if it isn't particularly lispy. 21:16:30 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:17:54 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:36 Fade: once I posted on cll a (-> obj met1 fun2 met3 fun4) macro. 21:19:42 there's even precedent for that kind of syntax in parenscript 21:19:50 at least, the original parenscript. 21:20:27 -!- dekuked [~user@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:20:39 the standard qt has the read macro, so it looks better then expanded version above, ie (#_setBackgroundMode (#_scene view) #(_SomeConstant "Qt")) but I still find it very annoying, like some kind of reversed Qt Yoda-speak.. Especially since Qt is chock-full of API where you need to chain calls to get to inner guts of some object 21:20:48 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.187.220] has left #lisp 21:21:19 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.252.44] has joined #lisp 21:21:22 Random OT observation : Vacuumed the dust off of the CPU heat sinks and shaved 9C off of core temps during analyses. 21:22:43 scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has joined #lisp 21:22:56 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec21d0f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:18 *maxm-* just opened the box, and pointed fan into it when I run multi-day simulations 21:23:28 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Quit: Out of this 3D] 21:24:13 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:07 maxm-: I could easily run with the box open. Once again, the obvious solution eluded me. 21:26:36 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 21:28:53 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:29:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:29:44 I had a server running for years open with a fan at it. (The internal ventilators were out of service, and it was too cheap to replace them). 21:30:26 It was even the essential server of the setup, the DNS + gateway server :-) 21:30:44 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-131-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:30:53 c0atz1n [~c0atz1n@189.224.90.134] has joined #lisp 21:31:40 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-19-76.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:45 pjb: lol 21:31:49 pjb: no fans? 21:31:51 *ThomasH* chuckles 21:32:23 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:32:26 SOmething like that: http://www.lolwow.com/pictures/2008/10/3881222969921.jpg 21:32:28 but worse. 21:32:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:32:53 For those who're simulating: http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/34-02/noise/Fig10.jpg 21:32:53 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:37 That looks like a noise attenuation tube 21:33:44 a hallmate of mine in college had his CPU fan die on him, so he filled up a nalgene bottle with cold water, laid down his box, and put it right on the CPU to cool it. 21:34:40 we just bought decent heatsinks. 21:35:02 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c004c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:22 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m83-185-142-102.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:35:30 ThomasH: perhaps, But it could be a cold air power blower :-) 21:36:52 pjb: Actually, it could also be active noise control. The possibilities are endless! 21:36:59 Yep. 21:37:04 It could be anything. 21:37:30 use a peltier 21:37:38 if you remove the "Fig10.jpg 21:37:57 " from the URL, it's an article about "Adaptively Cancelling Server Fan Noise" 21:38:14 Funny, I googled image for computer fan :-) 21:38:33 That must be fan noise yes. 21:39:09 to reduce fan nois you could use a speaker with inverting amplifier :) 21:39:21 Phoodus: Total Overkill. 21:43:58 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:13 Matt____ [6c0410fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.4.16.252] has joined #lisp 21:49:44 snearch [~snearch@f053015234.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:49:55 does anyone know where I can find a lisp desktop background? does lisp even have a logo? stupid question, yes, but I'm running out of good desktop backgrounds 21:52:31 Matt____: Google "Lisp Logo" 21:52:52 yeah, but those get stretched out when I put them on my desktop 21:52:58 clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-163-234.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:02 there's a vector of the alien 21:53:14 throw it in inkscape, render to whatever size you want 21:53:51 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:54:09 *lichtblau* is pretty sure both stassats` and ivan4th have commit access to what is (or used to be?) the main CommonQt repo, and trusts them to DTRT :-) 21:54:19 oh thanks for pointing that out 21:54:26 -!- Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:55:32 thanks guys, time for dinner in my timezone 21:55:33 -!- Matt____ [6c0410fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.4.16.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:55:49 lichtblau: thanks for the lib.. I hope you made some money with it, quality stuff :-) 21:56:12 always wondered why it did not took off, seems beats the hell out of anything else gui for CL 21:56:45 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:57:06 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:57:36 Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:58:48 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:06:03 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-163-234.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 22:08:00 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 22:08:26 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:09:13 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:10:47 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 22:11:19 Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:52 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:12:30 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AA42.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:30 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:00 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-9-73.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:50 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p50829BE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:15:19 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:39 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:18:02 easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 22:18:03 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:18:06 -!- easyE [gJ0QKmlUHP@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:17 -!- easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:36 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 22:18:59 trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-131-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:47 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:38 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-20-111.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:22:23 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-zsxvdbsnnqvydprc] has joined #lisp 22:22:53 Zemyla [~zemyla@ec2-50-19-77-190.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:44 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.212.210] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:28:32 -!- Radium [~carbon@117.203.8.77] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:28:52 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:27 Hey everyone. I'm new to Lisp, though I know Scheme and many other languages, and I'm hoping to learn Lisp so I can do stuff on Maxima. 22:29:59 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 22:30:15 -!- optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:39 Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.8.77] has joined #lisp 22:31:17 Zemyla: if you know scheme you already know a lot of CL. http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 22:31:33 Zemyla: the most striking difference is that CL is a lisp-2 while Scheme is a lisp-1. 22:32:03 I don't know what those terms mean. And I don't want to get tripped up by the differences. 22:32:29 Zemyla: in CL, a symbol has two bindings, one for value and one for function: it can be both at once. The binding used is determined by the position in the applications: first position: function; other positions: value (for functions). 22:32:33 Zemyla: Are you adding features to maxima? If you're just using it, no need to learn common lisp. 22:32:45 lisp-1 lisp-2: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 22:32:48 I'm hoping to add features, yes. 22:32:52 Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:12 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-39.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:12 Zemyla: s 22:33:19 minion: tell Zemyla about PCL 22:33:35 Zemyla: PCL = http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 22:33:40 minion!? 22:33:57 I already know about that. 22:34:06 Good. 22:34:27 Happy reading! then. 22:34:38 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-19-76.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:47 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:53 oiig_ [oiig_@112.161.134.227] has joined #lisp 22:35:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:36 Zemyla: also some CL library functions will modify structures in place, and there isn't a common naming convention to let you know that (like scheme's !) 22:36:39 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:50 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:13 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:19 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:38:24 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-131-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:42 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.148.106] has joined #lisp 22:39:09 clintm [~clintm@98.232.33.73] has joined #lisp 22:39:54 I can just get to the REPL in Maxima, right? 22:42:37 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:13 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 22:50:23 -!- clintm [~clintm@98.232.33.73] has quit [Quit: clintm] 22:51:09 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:24 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:18 -!- Radium_ [~carbon@117.203.8.77] has quit [] 22:54:25 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:55:07 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 22:55:10 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has joined #lisp 22:56:45 derekv [~derekv@c-71-238-24-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:40 copperx [~rafa@adsl-75-54-98-59.dsl.elpstx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:22 -!- daintihood [~sunglass@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:07:06 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:42 -!- saeftl [cbauerm@pestilenz.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:07:42 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:07:43 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 23:08:33 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:27 -!- chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has quit [] 23:09:49 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:10:16 pjb: Good interview. 23:10:49 Devon [~devon@vm1.lumi.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:31 Zemyla I believe so yes 23:13:12 didi: That wasn't me. 23:13:25 Distinguish Pascal J. Bourguignon from Pascal Costanza. 23:13:44 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015234.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:14:17 pjb: oic 23:14:32 Hi all, anyone have Android code to read a USB mouse in lisp? 23:15:14 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 23:16:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:31 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:17:52 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:18 saeftl [cbauerm@pestilenz.org] has joined #lisp 23:21:06 nixfreak_ [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:36 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 23:22:21 daintihood [~quincewor@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 23:24:14 android code... to read a usb mouse... in lisp? I'm not sure I understand the question 23:24:27 -!- nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:24:34 Well there's no mouse on an Android device. There's a touch screen. 23:24:48 The android devices are not programmed in lisp, but in Java. 23:25:07 But the android devices are not programmed in the Oracle/Sun Java JVM, so ABCL doesn't work there, so no lisp. 23:25:17 Or do I have preconceived ideas? 23:25:52 -!- nixfreak_ [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:26:05 android 3.0+ support usb devices, so mice and keyboards work 23:26:17 just joking ;-) 23:26:37 ikki [~ikki@189.247.231.40] has joined #lisp 23:26:56 pjb: i've hgeard easye had abcl working on android 23:26:57 it seems that ECL runs on android. no idea how well it works. https://github.com/ageneau/ecl-android 23:27:43 pjb: where ABCL has a rough time of it is where it is not allowed to use a classloader like applet contents 23:28:01 applet contents/applet contexts 23:28:21 dmiles_afk: last time I talked, ABCL doesn't really work, but it's planned for the future 23:28:55 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-107-3-142-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:20 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129057010.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:30:45 i guess the can be a JME lack of needed classes 23:31:19 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:31:26 it would only take a few hours toi mkae it work on JME.. i dont get it ;) 23:32:34 dmiles_afk: it's more a question of not killing the VM with GC behaviour 23:33:08 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:33:21 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:26 oh that right.. i remember hearing something about the GC crashing things 23:34:24 dmiles_afk: an early example was Clojure, which even after "slimming down" was unusable due to generating tons of garbage that Android's stop-and-copy GC (used from 1.0 to 2.2) couldn't deal efficiently 23:35:11 ehu mentioned possibly using a CONS cache to alleviate that 23:35:53 tracking when a CONS is fgreed.. interesting 23:36:04 freed* 23:36:39 well, kind of a pre-allocated cache with some quick'n'dirty custom GC, to take care of all those happy allocations in typical code 23:36:40 something ABCL doesnt do.. not that it should do it.. is string interning at least if something is going intoa symbol table 23:37:09 once its in symbol table obvouslry its interned.. but the string object is always rebuilt for use 23:38:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.231.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:38:23 (well strings arnt the area of issue though.. it is the conses) 23:39:17 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:59 not that i worship clojure in any way.. but hrrm if clojure had issues ABCL barely stands a chance 23:41:08 since clojure for example only uses interned strings (as they are in the class files) and hardly uses linked lists 23:41:22 dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has joined #lisp 23:41:55 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:01 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.149.235.129] has joined #lisp 23:43:12 davlaps [~davlaps@204-16-154-194-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:47 first thing abcl has to do is stop using its own classloader.. and just use the systemclassloader 23:44:06 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:40 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:44:45 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-199-47.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:44:49 its allowed to make classfiles.. all day.. that should be encouragesd!.. just load them from the systemclassloader 23:48:00 diginet [~diginet@adsl-69-153-135-2.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:42 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:19 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:50:31 doesn't using its own classloader circumvents some of the CLASSPATH problems? 23:50:32 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:58 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-216-42.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:58 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-216-42.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:50:58 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 23:51:46 oh i should clearify.. "it should use the systemclassloader for loading the base system" 23:52:46 there are three class loader situations it needs.. one would have a classpath issue.. its when loading a 3rd party jar 23:53:23 you have to use a URLCLassLoader to load a 3rd party .jar "late" 23:53:26 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@204-16-154-194-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 23:53:53 but as far as the base system in fully interpreted mode.. you never have to use your own classloader 23:54:26 in this fully interpreted mode .. you can run any common lisp code and never much with byte[]s 23:54:39 with classbytes* 23:54:59 never muck* with classbytes* 23:55:45 this even runs in applet mode 23:56:28 -!- dim [~dim@2a02:2178:2:4::174] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:56:30 the whole use of geneerating classfiles was a *hope* that things could go faster 23:58:52 booting in interpreted mode was "slower" than compiled mode.. but runing the ansi tests is faster in interpred mode