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You could just use functions even to generate the code. In any case, since you don't know the package name in advance, you must use INTERN to create the symbols. So be it with a macro or a function, you'll have things like: `(defun ,(intern "FNAME" the-package) ) 01:51:28 -!- isismelting [~jo@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:51:55 For your last question the answer is yes, it can. Once the package exists and has exported a symbol, you can read using the pack:symb syntax. Once the package exists, you can read using the pack::symb syntax or (in-package p) symb syntax. 01:59:50 -!- Jamamooga_ [~Jamamooga@208.67.205.11] has left #lisp 02:00:19 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:29 -!- ultrixx [~ultrixx@p5DC77AEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 02:02:32 Since macros compile themselves out of the language, it should be clear that you never need macros. :) 02:04:20 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:04:53 kanru`` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:55 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:05:55 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:06:21 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 02:06:42 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 02:07:13 Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 02:07:22 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@218.58.12.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:49 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:07:49 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:05 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 02:08:48 Zhivago: right. But what you need is to run code at read time, at compilation time, or at run-time. Reader macros are the hook to run code at read-time, and macros are the hook to run code at compilation time. 02:09:10 -!- chavezgu [~chavezgu@CableLink38-217.telefonia.InterCable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:09:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.7.26] has joined #lisp 02:09:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.7.26] has quit [Changing host] 02:09:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:10:40 chavezgu [~chavezgu@cablelink38-217.telefonia.intercable.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:59 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 02:17:52 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has quit [Quit: (sleep 28800)] 02:25:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:24 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-120.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:46 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@c-67-172-17-89.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:25 -!- airolson 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sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 06:17:05 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:14 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 06:21:44 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 06:23:29 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:26:51 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:30:15 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:30:15 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:30:15 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:34:51 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 06:37:02 -!- flip215 is now known as flip212 06:37:04 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 06:37:04 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:08 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:10 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.196.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:43:20 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-smfchjmerxivdinn] has joined #lisp 06:43:27 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:43:50 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:45:07 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:45:07 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:07 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:45:07 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:45:08 dl [~download@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-183-116.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:47:43 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 06:48:09 Why doesn't #` work? Eg. #`+ should return something like # 06:48:25 it should be #' 06:49:15 oh! 06:49:57 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.150.217.186] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:50:13 both ` and ' work as the quote function? 06:50:47 no 06:50:47 Yes, but the semantics differ regarding , 06:50:56 e.g., `(,a) vs. '(,a) 06:51:21 ' is QUOTE, ` is whatever it takes to make , and friends work 06:51:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:51:28 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:51:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:51:58 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:52:32 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:52:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:54:25 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:54:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-80-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:56:51 superflit_ [~superflit@71-218-200-111.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:57 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:03 morning 06:57:55 morning 06:59:19 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 06:59:42 today I'm trying to figure out if it's faster in iolib a read-line or receive-from + loop over bytes 06:59:50 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:00:10 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:00:10 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 07:00:10 if anybody already knows the answer ... :) 07:00:22 please tell me 07:01:25 I've simpli noticed that looping over a gigabyte takes more than 6 seconds 07:01:31 *simply 07:01:39 Due to GC? 07:02:17 Zhivago, I've done this test (time (dotimes (i (* 8 1024 1024 1024)))) 07:02:24 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-068-143-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:28 dnolen [~user@67.106.254.3.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:34 I presume that the line reader is producing significant garbage. 07:02:39 lol / 8 07:02:49 That might be the reason for your delay. 07:03:13 Zhivago, I'm currently not using read-line 07:03:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:03:59 I'm using a 8byte buffer and then loop over bytes 07:04:15 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 07:04:43 morning 07:05:22 anyway looping 1Gb could take more than 0.78 seconds, that is acceptable 07:05:54 even because in a socket reading the loop is not the bottleneck 07:06:10 ... at least nowaday 07:06:34 0.7 seconds? that's an eternety! 07:06:49 kiuma: an 8 byte buffer is very small. 07:07:02 not much better than no buffer at all, really. 07:07:19 tuning buffer size is one of the first things you should do when benchmarking I/O. 07:07:22 Maybe 4096 bytes would be a better choice. 07:07:25 ^ 07:07:34 or even more 07:07:42 Ralith, I didn't remember the correct amount, I'm using 64Kb by default 07:08:03 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:08:09 that's not what you said a few minutes ago! 07:09:40 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:41 Ralith, my problem is not the buffer size, my problem/question is that I'm using receive-from, and then, when I've received the buffer, I've to check each byte. 07:09:46 what would it take to get PDF rendering (a la the current PS rendering) in mcclim? 07:10:18 kiuma: I wouldn't be surprised if your problem is indeed that you are using receive-from. 07:10:27 have you profiled? 07:10:34 so, supposing I have to handle 1Gb request, I've done this simple test (time (dotimes (i (* 1024 1024 1024)))) 07:11:07 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:11:08 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:11:10 oh, yo uhaven't actually ran this code at all. 07:11:12 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 07:11:17 Ralith, not yet. 07:11:25 dl` [~download@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:29 you should do that before you try to optimize the corner cases. 07:11:57 you will most likely discover that it is I/O bound. 07:11:57 Ralith, I've run 'another' code and worked (it's an http server). Now I'm refactoring 07:13:03 Ralith, it's for this reason that my server is io-event/thread-queue based 07:13:08 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:22 -!- dnolen [~user@67.106.254.3.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:53 -!- dl [~download@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:14:18 Designed not to scale. :) 07:14:28 anyway if I've understood your suggestion is to profile later when I'll have all pieces refactored and glued together , right ? 07:14:46 Zhivago, why do you say that ? 07:14:56 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-252.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:15:18 I would say the opposite 07:15:59 Do side-effects propagate between operations? 07:17:13 Or, more simply, does it make use of shared memory? 07:17:36 use of shared memory 07:18:00 Then it's designed not to scale, because shared memory doesn't. 07:18:07 -!- diginet [~diginet@ppp-70-246-16-75.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:18:13 main thread does read and write to socket, thread pool prepared replies 07:18:56 So, how does state propagate? 07:19:20 diginet [~diginet@ppp-70-246-16-75.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:46 good point 07:21:02 Zhivago, do you have something to read regarding state propagation ? 07:21:28 Well, side-effects is the critical bit. 07:21:47 Essentially the region of side-effect propagation is what is normally known as a 'process'. 07:22:32 The scaling limit of a single process is pretty much that of shared memory. 07:22:46 So if you want to scale beyond that, you need to support multiple processes. 07:22:56 In truth I wanted to remove tread queue and add handling of something like 'not-ready 07:23:26 (Which need not be posix processes -- just envelopes over side-effect propagation) 07:23:27 and delegate multiple processes to the served application 07:24:02 A session, for example, might be a suitable process -- if your side-effects are limited to a single sessoin. 07:24:17 yes you have just suggested me that thread-queue is out of place 07:24:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-120.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 07:24:33 Well, it might be in place. 07:25:03 It might just need to pick the appropriate process for a given operation to occur within, and to have that operation limit its side-effects to that process. 07:25:05 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:25:35 Which would probably end up giving you a model like that of ecmascript, which is probably the right thing. 07:25:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:26:18 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 07:26:56 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:36 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:59 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 07:29:35 Zhivago, I'll take your suggestions into consideration, thank you! 07:32:08 kiuma: Good luck. 07:32:08 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:32:47 -!- Staffgiraffe is now known as tdubellz 07:32:57 slyrus: a simple matter of programming? Emphasis on the simple, I suspect, although I don't understand anything about potential color-model incompatibilities, and that might be your focus (: 07:32:58 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Client Quit] 07:33:13 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:33:39 splittist: perhaps. I was hoping who knows more about the current ps backend and the differences between ps and pdf would weigh in and say "sure, no problem, I'll do it this weekend!" :) 07:33:52 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Client Quit] 07:34:03 pdf is pretty much the side-effect sequence of ps, isn't it? 07:34:09 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:34:20 slyrus: you'll just have to wait to get Xof in a weak moment. Good luck... 07:37:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:37:17 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 07:37:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:37:55 pjb: i read your comment but it was too late to reply meaningfully. i don't know the package name in advance, but the user does. the nicest way to support it seems to be by letting the user write his code in the body, though that doesn't work. still, when i put the code the user enters /after/ the macro, it fails. when i put the code in a file which is loaded later, it does work. i think it might fail because the packag 07:37:55 created conditionally, yet still it's wrapped in an eval-when so i'm not exactly sure. 07:38:10 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-27-154.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:21 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:01 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:39:35 mmajchrzak [~mmajchrza@dynamic-78-8-248-44.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 07:46:48 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:55 what's the current status of 5am vs stefil vs hu.dwim.stefil? are there any new test-framework contenders i should take out for a spin? 07:47:54 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:51:07 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:51:48 kilon|2 [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:51:53 -!- kilon|2 [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Client Quit] 07:53:04 teggi [~teggi@123.21.175.173] has joined #lisp 07:53:55 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 07:54:53 nikodemus: eos has gotten some attention. it's similar/compatible with 5am. 07:55:23 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 07:55:59 nikodemus: i wrote is-right, but that has a different take at testing which mostly applies to relatively straight-forward functions 07:56:35 lindes [~user@p4FF1C618.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:26 aha, dropping arnesi dep. that's good -- not that it /really/ matters anymore with quicklisp, but... 07:57:50 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 07:59:55 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:00:40 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has left #lisp 08:01:55 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:06:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:06:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:09:16 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:11:54 -!- guaqua_ is now known as guaqua 08:12:09 Zypeh [~zypeh@60.53.119.181] has joined #lisp 08:14:08 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.21.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:28 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qytkuibfahhfgqac] has joined #lisp 08:14:35 -!- mmajchrzak [~mmajchrza@dynamic-78-8-248-44.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17:39 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:17:43 -!- kanru`` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:18:47 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:21:35 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 08:23:06 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:29:13 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:29:44 TimKack [~user@c-2ec2bd40-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:31:06 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: vervic] 08:36:15 Kryztof [~user@84.40.217.82] has joined #lisp 08:36:46 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host187-229-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41:50 Posterdati [~tapioca@host187-229-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:46:48 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 08:56:27 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:57:28 -!- dl` [~download@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:59:31 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 09:00:05 hello. can any users of CommonQt check if this work? I'm getting "class not found: HWND_" condition. (#_winId (#_QApplication::desktop)) 09:00:28 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:08 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:04 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 09:03:44 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:89d6:b4dc:86ca:40fc] has joined #lisp 09:08:11 just wondering ... can I define a compiler-macro for a labels or flet definition? 09:11:58 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 09:13:35 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:14:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:15:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:15:19 nope 09:15:29 well... 09:16:04 nikodemus: why not? 09:16:22 compiler-macros are global 09:17:01 nikodemus: right. but it does seem to be legal to define a global compiler macro for a local function, no? 09:17:02 it's not an unreasonable question, though 09:17:14 definitely 09:17:19 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-14-2.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 09:17:29 and they have access to the lexical environment, so you can sort-of get that effect if you play with the environment to figure out if the use is local or global 09:18:10 (compiler macros being global are one of the reasons package-locks prohibit local redefinitions) 09:18:33 It doesn't sound particularly sensible, because it would require all local functions to maintain the semantics of all global functions. 09:19:23 (With the same names) 09:19:32 no, wait, do i misrember? 09:19:35 well, no, what I thought would be sensible would be to have compiler-macrolet 09:19:48 in the (normative) glossary, "compiler-macro" refers only to global functions 09:19:50 -!- cataska_ [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:20:52 I guess that you'd also have to deal with lexical closure. 09:21:15 clhs: 3.2.2.1.3 09:21:15 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bbac.htm 09:21:32 yeah, i misremembered 09:22:11 you can write a portableish compiler-macrolet out of FLET and MACROLET, i think 09:22:46 Personally, I'd rather make all macros have obligatory compiler-macro semantics. 09:24:19 -!- passionke [~Administr@58.100.63.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:24:26 -!- abby_j [~caesar@199.167.199.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:25:35 abby_j [~caesar@199.167.199.145] has joined #lisp 09:26:09 nikodemus: as of stefil, hu.dwim.stefil is the main branch 09:26:22 (Then you could remove inline from the language and define it in terms of a compile-macro) 09:28:19 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 09:28:59 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 09:31:34 jdz [~jdz@host202-90-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:33:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:34:39 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:35:51 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has joined #lisp 09:37:54 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 09:40:07 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vybonmjpnatragjq] has joined #lisp 09:40:07 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-vybonmjpnatragjq] has quit [Changing host] 09:40:07 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:40:48 So, if I've got a local function that does ECASE on a parameter, and I want that to be inlined in most of the parts, what's the best way to do that? 09:41:30 have you considered declaring it INLINE? 09:41:34 write a macro looking for CONSTANTP and KEYWORDP of the argument and expanding to a (different) function call if not? 09:41:39 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:41:52 ViLord [~ViLord@herse.ipb.fr] has joined #lisp 09:42:29 -!- ViLord [~ViLord@herse.ipb.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:42:41 constantp will true on a keyword 09:43:16 ViLord [~ViLord@herse.ipb.fr] has joined #lisp 09:43:31 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:43:38 so, you want it to not always inlined 09:43:40 hello 09:44:23 could someone help me to read an integer in a string? Which function do I have to use? 09:44:42 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 09:44:50 clhs parse-integer 09:44:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_parse_.htm 09:45:03 ah, isn't it nice to have specbot back? 09:45:23 stassats: the local function might be passed around via closures, and then the macro doesn't see in advance which parameter is used. so I'd have to have a macro with the same name as the function ... 09:45:24 Kryztof: very much so! 09:45:32 ho perfect ty 09:46:21 flip212: can you paste what you're trying to do? 09:50:23 stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128739 09:51:03 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:51:20 and what's the problem? 09:51:57 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 09:52:04 if you declare it inline, ($ 1) could become inlined 09:52:29 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:53:02 stassats: yes. but some of the cases do recursive calls with different arguments, and then eg. SBCL crashes for the inline-expansion-limit. 09:53:19 although the "recursion" is at most of depth 2. 09:53:31 yes, recursion and inlinement don't match 09:53:33 <|3b|> declare notinline inside the definition? 09:53:46 but the expansion doesn't take the possible cases into account 09:53:50 |3b|: wouldn't work 09:54:06 |3b|: I'd like to have the calls inlined, even at depth 2 09:54:32 IIRC CCL and/or ECL just don't inline 09:59:14 |3b|: although i don't understand why 09:59:42 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.175.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:54 -!- Kryztof [~user@84.40.217.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:01:35 -!- ViLord [~ViLord@herse.ipb.fr] has quit [] 10:04:49 *|3b|* can't tell if it should work or not, aside from the spec saying compilers aren't allowed to ignore NOTINLINE 10:11:52 i don't see that it's disallowed to do so, maybe SBCL just doesn't want to 10:14:04 hrm, but the implication of not allowing to ignore NOTINLINE says otherwise 10:15:18 attila_lendvai: thanks. i took eos out for a spin for a change -- finally added some tests to esrap... 10:15:42 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:16:29 SBCL ignores it even when used in LOCALLY inside the body of LABELS 10:16:30 nikodemus: well, stefil was born out of half a year of annoyance with the 5am api... ;) 10:17:21 i'm strongly suspecting that SBCL is wrong here 10:20:02 rise and shine 10:25:32 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-80-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:25:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-80-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:27:08 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:29:50 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 10:31:57 -!- CrazyThinker 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[~cmm@bzq-79-177-208-207.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:48:46 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 10:49:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: flight] 10:50:23 <|3b|> hmm, slime-proxy seems to not work anymore, wonder if it can be fixed without just reverting to old slime 10:50:42 udzinari [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3aab] has joined #lisp 10:52:22 <|3b|> doesn't help much that i didn't even really understand how it was supposed to work when it did work, and that was a while ago 10:52:43 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 10:53:07 -!- dek5 [~eugene@83.246.164.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:53:59 -!- xiaohanyu [~lox@118.186.80.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:54:02 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:54:19 xiaohanyu [~lox@114.112.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:55:47 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:55:59 cmm [~cmm@109.64.224.247] has joined #lisp 10:56:18 what's slime-proxy? 10:56:27 <|3b|> a hack for using slime with parenscript 10:56:58 <|3b|> it talks to a host lisp, compiles PS code to JS there, then talks to a browser from there using websockets 10:58:19 hi 10:59:24 araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has joined #lisp 10:59:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has quit [Changing host] 10:59:25 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:00:00 <|3b|> it used to use listener-channel stuff to share the normal connection to the lisp, but that seems to have disappeared 11:00:51 *|3b|* wonders if it would be easier to just implement a separate swank-like and have 2 connections 11:01:18 antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has joined #lisp 11:03:41 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.224.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:04:46 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.41] has joined #lisp 11:05:19 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-068-143-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined 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[~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:24 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 13:15:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:15:44 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.86.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:16:35 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:20:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-67-205-180.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:26:28 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 13:27:14 is there a lisp program that converts lisp expr to latex ? and then renderrs them in like pdf readable equatiions? 13:28:13 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-207-85.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:15 felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has joined #lisp 13:29:48 There could be. The power lies within YOU. 13:33:59 can slime open extra windows to inspect data, ie. eg. start new xemacs windows for that? 13:34:14 yes 13:34:45 slime-inspector C-c I 13:35:29 i think it does open new windows by default 13:36:13 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:37:36 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 13:39:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-207-85.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:40:50 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 13:41:48 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-234-17.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:59 -!- Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:08 francogrex: You could go from clod to org-mode to latex. 13:43:11 stassats: I've found my old example again, it's http://paste.lisp.org/display/128011 - semi-recursive LABELS cannot be inlined on SBCL 13:43:41 Jordan_U [~jordan@216.57.70.194] has joined #lisp 13:43:45 francogrex: Or prepare org-mode files with included lisp expressions, and publish latex from that. 13:44:33 francogrex: that's as true today as it was then 13:44:53 well, to flip212, obviously 13:45:09 francogrex: In this context, you mean Common Lisp when you say "lisp" rather than the larger set of lisp which would include Emacs Lisp. 13:45:35 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:45:43 _nix00 [~Adium@114.229.233.120] has joined #lisp 13:46:24 stassats: yes, of course. that's why I asked about local define-compiler-macros today ... 13:47:43 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.229.233.120] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:17 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:20 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:50:28 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-234-17.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 13:52:19 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-227-130.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:42 francogrex: there's vgrind (well, troff is 'like' latex) 13:55:03 wakeup [~max@p5DE8E039.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:04 (or lgrind or tgrind) 13:55:12 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:15 hello all 13:55:29 splittist: ok I don't care about the intermediate as long as I get a nice render image of the equation like we find in math books in the end 13:55:35 I am trying to choose a parser generator, for a language similar to markdown etc 13:55:49 francogrex: You can also embedd in in an org-mode file. Org-mode does that pretty nicely 13:56:26 I don't care for latex, if there is a lisp expression to nicely renedered image formula the kind mathematica prints 13:56:49 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-227-130.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:56:50 wakeup: Regular expressions :) Otherwise, parser combinators are nice imho. There's also meta and s-meta (or whatever the name was). In general, see http://cliki.net/parser%20generator 13:56:56 i'd say that generating latex is your best bet 13:57:02 ah, meta-sexp 13:57:09 and meta-peg... never seen then 13:57:11 but I can't really decide which one to use, I guess I would like the most stable one. Currently I have a recursive descent parser that I'd like to replace so yeah it ought to be somewhat powerful 13:57:14 s/then/that/ 13:57:25 from latex then I need to render the image using what? 13:57:30 -!- xiaohanyu [~lox@114.112.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:57:31 pdflatex 13:57:35 Neronus: regex = no no hell no 13:57:58 well, that is how the original markdown works :) 13:58:11 similar to markdown 13:58:15 not the same 13:58:15 Neronus: being RE-based is the main reason why the original markdown is buggy on complex markup. 13:58:25 I have nested sections etc 13:59:00 You can have a look at http://christian.ftwca.de:8080/post/parsing-bibtex-files-with-parser-combinators I show parser combinators for bibtex (which is not a regular language) 13:59:12 pkhuong: I know :) 13:59:13 I like the smug parser, myself. 13:59:18 thanks 14:00:14 smug looks like parser combinators again 14:00:25 flip212: do version #2 and #3 fail with current HEAD? (#1 has an unbound variable) 14:00:36 xiaohanyu [~lox@118.186.80.9] has joined #lisp 14:00:48 what about cl-peg? 14:00:53 is it production ready? 14:00:56 nikodemus: will test, currently compiling current HEAD 14:01:41 wakeup: what are you producting? 14:01:43 flip212: i can't replicate the heap exhaustion with my current tree 14:02:14 nikodemus: I'll try again. The problem seems to have been that the recursive inlining was done without regarding any restrictions 14:02:15 bottoming out due to *INLINE-EXPANSION-LIMIT* is expected, though 14:02:17 on the arguments 14:02:25 is it? 14:02:43 Xach: hopefully a parser with less bugs than my current one. Awesome would be if I knew I had no parsing bugs if I specified the language correctly. 14:03:16 I'd have thought that the second level expansion sees the constantp argument and does _not_ expand all occurrences again, only the two that are really in reachable code 14:04:01 teggi [~teggi@123.21.175.173] has joined #lisp 14:04:50 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-228-86.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:55 flip212: a SSC might do that, but there's no end to what SSC might do 14:04:59 dnolen [~user@67.106.254.3.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:16 "we just need a good, optimizing compiler" or whatever the quote was 14:05:17 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:05:53 flip212: "a sufficiently smart compiler can " 14:06:05 oh right, thanks 14:06:25 I've error'd by reading SSA 14:07:10 smug parser does look good 14:07:43 flip212: the reason this is hard for SBCL to do is that it does do inline expansionr recursively as you're expecting, but cyclically 14:08:21 ie. it does a round of optimization and sees something it can inline -- and does so, incrementing the inline-expansion-count for the block 14:08:42 next round, thanks to the expanded function being recursive the same happens again 14:09:12 Yeah, I'd have hoped that it takes reachable/unreachable code paths into account, too 14:09:24 -!- shizzy0 [~user@132.198.9.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:09:37 nikodemus: current HEAD aborts with this: 14:09:38 ; x-compiling (DEFINE-MULTIBYTE-MAPPER *GBK-TO-UCS-TABLE* ...)INFO: Control stack guard page unprotected 14:09:38 Control stack guard page temporarily disabled: proceed with caution 14:09:48 -!- xiaohanyu [~lox@118.186.80.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:09:52 Do I need a distclean? 14:10:12 no 14:10:25 no such thing. you should run sh clean.sh, though 14:10:36 there's a distclean.sh in my git tree 14:10:38 flip212: what system and host? 14:10:38 clean.sh is run with make.sh each time 14:10:46 debian amd64 14:10:47 oh, right. we changed that 14:11:10 compiling again 14:11:27 it shouldn't make any difference 14:11:42 unless your bug is nondeterministic 14:11:59 flip212: what /host/ lisp? 14:12:13 sbcl 1.0.55, debian package 14:12:43 *nikodemus* has knee-jerk instinct to blame debian :) 14:13:10 did they decrease stack size so much? 14:13:20 flip212: are you sure your tree is clean? (ie no local changes?) 14:13:33 ah no ... that reminds me, I've got an own core file with quicklisp, cl-ppcre and others build in ... 14:13:37 perhaps that's the problem. 14:13:41 reverted core, trying again. 14:13:48 nikodemus: no local changes. 14:13:56 git status doesn't show anything? 14:14:02 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:14:08 stassats: no, but I normally patch debian binaries to use only 1G VM. 14:14:37 stassats: the difference it shows is README.LLVM from the LLVM branch I looked at a long time ago, 14:15:15 how did it end up there? 14:15:25 are you sure it's still not on this branch? 14:16:34 * master 137b4d0 contrib/asdf: Import asdf 2.20 from upstream. 14:20:29 nikodemus: compilation successfull, paste works too, saying 14:20:32 ; note: *INLINE-EXPANSION-LIMIT* (200) was exceeded, probably trying to; inline a recursive function. 14:23:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-228-86.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:25:31 cmm [~cmm@109.64.235.46] has joined #lisp 14:26:10 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:24 morning 14:28:26 nikodemus: put that LABELS into a (DEFUN X (x) (LABELS ... (print ($ x)))) - COMPILE-FILE says 14:28:27 madnificent: I don't understand what's the problem? http://paste.lisp.org/+2RC9 14:28:28 ; note: *INLINE-EXPANSION-LIMIT* (200) was exceeded, probably trying to 14:28:29 ; inline a recursive function. 14:28:29 Heap exhausted during garbage collection: 48 bytes available, 80 requested. 14:28:31 with current HEAD 14:29:56 -!- Nauntilus [~NickServ@ip68-231-176-93.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:30:45 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-48-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:30:51 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:31:42 urandom__ [~user@p548A5FB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:52 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 14:31:52 flip212: well, you said you limited your heap to 1G only, that means only 512M for the GC left to use, which you can easily exceed during compilation 14:31:59 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-48-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 14:32:25 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:32:33 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-89-196.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:32:44 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:33:23 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-89-196.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:53 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-89-196.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:34:29 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.235.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:34:37 eh, cl-irc's doing something fishy 14:34:40 stassats`: 1Gb is current default, isn't it? 14:35:22 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-89-196.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:26 anyways, i actually have an idea how to hack the inline expansion to be smarter. i'll see how far i can get in an hour 14:36:01 i should do some analytic debugging of cl-irc, because i don't know how to reproduce it, and when it reproduces itself it spins into a viscous nested errors cycle 14:36:14 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:18 actually I was getting bunch of heap exhausted randomly when compiling tip of SBCL with itself a few weeks ago also 14:36:41 this was compiling pkhuong's clos fixes branch with tip of sbcl 14:37:04 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.135] has joined #lisp 14:37:13 eek, it uses serve-event 14:37:49 stassats`: that was a freshly built sbcl HEAD, nothing patched by me 14:37:51 or that was from repl 14:38:18 flip212: as nikodemus suggests, it uses 1G by default 14:38:32 maxm-: randomly having anything happen during build sounds deeply wrong 14:39:18 which is not much 14:39:19 yeah, compile-file allocates ~450MB ... and then there might be some issue with * on the REPL 14:39:24 nikodemus: it went away after I changed dynamic space size back to 16 gigs, figured the default was changed into too small 14:40:02 450 + run-time, sounds too much for 1G 14:40:29 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:40:40 yea plus I load several systems from ~/.sbclrc, so I can see where 450 + a few systems from ~/.sbclrc will be over 512 14:42:00 does anyone know if smug is maintained in any way? 14:42:07 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-252.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:15 I could only find the github repo and a tutorial 14:44:13 ainm [~ainm@165.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:02 and the source looks good, but no comments and it seems like he bundled a org-mode parser into the parser library... 14:45:06 so weird 14:45:09 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120328051619]] 14:47:18 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 14:48:27 .sbclrc should not come into it, unless you specify a non-default --xc-host: the build uses --no-userinit by default 14:49:04 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:49:42 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-89-196.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:49:57 -!- antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:50:47 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:51:02 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-89-196.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:46 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-89-196.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:52:13 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-89-196.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 14:52:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-252.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:52:52 mickbeaver [~mickbeave@216-136-25-2.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:43 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-225-57.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:00 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has joined #lisp 14:56:24 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 14:57:18 monotux [~user@juno.hamsterkollektivet.se] has joined #lisp 14:57:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.135] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:58:19 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:58:24 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:59:34 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:59:51 shizzy0 [~user@132.198.9.167] has joined #lisp 14:59:57 wakeup: I doubt it. smug seemed more like an experiment, but still very useful. 15:00:16 -!- neena [neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:00:25 I mailed the author, Id like to maintain msmug if he doesnt want to 15:00:35 its a tiny codebase and if it can parse org mode I like it 15:01:38 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.30] has joined #lisp 15:01:52 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:02:03 I wrote a printf implementation with it 15:02:10 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:20 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 15:02:20 wakeup: I have my own version of smug in a project with things like better error recovery, but the version I forked off of was a bit old and merging it back into mainline was a pain. 15:02:21 http://github.com/dlowe-net/printf 15:02:50 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:23 sykopomp: mind sharing? 15:06:32 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:06:44 LiamH [~healy@wireless-206-196-162-153.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 sykopomp: so there's a mainline? 15:07:04 yeah, drewc actually put it up on github 15:07:05 i thought it was just a lisppaste 15:07:07 ah gotcha 15:07:13 I 'forked' when it still lived in lisppaste. 15:07:20 right 15:08:06 wakeup: https://github.com/sykopomp/sykosomatic/blob/develop/src/util/smug.lisp#L313-334 15:08:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-225-57.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:54 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qytkuibfahhfgqac] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128746 15:09:06 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:09:58 yeah I guess Ill go with the original 15:09:58 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:10:05 ;) 15:10:17 the original what? 15:10:22 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-223-238.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:28 well the github smug 15:10:30 the one on lisppaste? 15:11:21 I don't even remember now what was giving me trouble wrt integration. 15:11:29 https://github.com/drewc/smug 15:11:45 split files? 15:11:49 I don't know 15:12:06 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:12:45 -!- lindes` [~user@p4FF1C618.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:12:52 https://github.com/sykopomp/smug ah, this might be more useful. Forgot about this. 15:14:25 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:15:00 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec2bd40-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:09 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-223-238.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:19 wakeup: You might try that. I found the error handling in the parser-combinator library... tricky 15:18:52 cmm [~cmm@109.65.213.247] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 -!- koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:20:44 koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has joined #lisp 15:24:44 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 15:27:20 kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 15:27:43 sezo- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 15:27:43 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 15:27:48 -!- sezo- is now known as sezo 15:29:33 hello. can anyone with Common Qt check if this is working? (#_winId (#_QApplication::desktop)). it's straight from Qt tutorial, but for some reason I'm getting "class not found: HWND_" condition 15:30:57 how does https://github.com/Ramarren/cl-parser-combinators stand in relation to smug? 15:33:22 sezo: (#_winId (#_QApplication::desktop)) => 349 15:33:41 i take it you're using windows? 15:34:03 yes 15:34:12 I suspected it was a windows issue 15:34:45 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:02 Sebboh [~hobbes@unaffiliated/sebboh] has joined #lisp 15:36:19 and i take it you ran (ensure-qapplication) beforehand? 15:36:36 I have 15:37:17 (QApplication.desktop.winId) => 512 here 15:37:32 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.213.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:38:04 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:26 really interesting... (qdescribe "QDesktopWidget") does not even show winId method 15:38:27 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:38:31 maxm- is that some syntax you have to enable? 15:39:00 ehu [~ehuels@109.38.58.81] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 sezo: no my own hack 15:39:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-233-158.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:54 sezo: I suspect if you out for a quick solution, probably easiest would be to just use cffi, load user32.dll and get the thing 15:40:46 why do you need desktop HWND anyway? Qt has almost no API that works with native system windows 15:41:58 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:42:09 not sure, HWND is a windows handle, and it's the time handle to desktop would be in C 15:42:22 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:42:22 the type* 15:42:33 Yuuhi [benni@p54839C91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:17 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:17 you won't accept qt function that accepts hwnd anyway, the API is there for when one tries to get around Qt to get to the underlaying windowing system native object, and do something with it 15:43:18 do you have that hack online somewhere? looks nice. I guess it works for member functions too? 15:43:25 generally losing proposition, as Qt seems very complete 15:43:26 wakeup: They are both parser combinator libraries. The latter is the one I used in my blog-post. Works well, author still active and reacted to a bug-report. 15:43:40 -!- LiamH [~healy@wireless-206-196-162-153.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:43:50 do we need two? 15:44:17 sezo: I pasted it before let me find it.. It requires you to have your package/repl in the inverted readtable 15:44:22 Of course not, but we have two :) 15:44:27 flip212: there's a patch you might want to try on sbcl-devel 15:44:35 Nauntilus [~NickServ@wsip-68-14-222-194.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:37 I am considering maintaining smug 15:44:49 or just using parser-generators 15:44:53 haaaard 15:45:46 sezo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128747 15:45:54 replace (def ) with obvious thing 15:45:55 Are format control strings case sensitive? Meaning, is ~a the same as ~A? 15:46:07 they are case-insensitive, yes 15:46:09 thanks 15:46:12 then macroexpand (with-qt ...body-with-dotted-syntax...) 15:46:17 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-233-158.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:46:41 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 15:46:45 wakeup: I can't say anything about smug, sorry. 15:47:26 pjb: i don't have to output make-package in my macro, i can just define it and when the code is loaded from the fasls, the package will still exist? 15:47:45 pjb: i think that was my problem btw. 15:47:50 nikodemus: I should be subscribed, which one? 15:48:03 cmm [~cmm@109.64.228.180] has joined #lisp 15:48:16 sezo: I added annotation showing readtable setup... 15:48:31 Does it happen often that code will run when interpreted, but fail to compile? 15:49:09 Sebboh: CL has somewhat different semantics for those cases, but often is an overstatement. 15:50:17 pjb: well, that and the fact that i was trying to get it defined in one toplevel progn form (which i'd still prefer but don't think it is in any way possible at the moment) 15:50:34 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:50:37 madnificent: this is what my code does! 15:50:48 It generates a single toplevel progn form. 15:50:49 -!- wakeup [~max@p5DE8E039.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:59 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-smfchjmerxivdinn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:51:11 But that doesn't prevent you to write `(progn ,(generate-f1) ,(generate-f2) etc) 15:51:18 functional decomposition is orthogonal. 15:51:24 For those reading above paste wondering wtf are the unnecessary list-tail-p shenanigans, its to try to leave as many pieces of the original form in-place as possible, instead of consing new, as this allows SBCL debugger to correctly determine the source.. With everything freshly conses, the closest it gets is highlighting entire defun otherwise 15:51:25 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 15:51:27 Sebboh: the only obvious case would be functions needed during macro-expansion not present at that time 15:51:31 iterate has same problem 15:51:50 stassats`!!! That sounds likely! :D 15:52:11 Compilation can also impose additional invariants that you might be breaking. 15:52:19 madnificent: notice a detail: the generating code is not read in the package where the symbols are interned. eg. the local variable symbols are interned in the package of the generating code. 15:52:32 in which case you'd wrap those functions in eval-when 15:52:41 If you rely on redefinition, then calls to functions in the same file may be an issue. 15:52:53 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.228.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:53:12 madnificent: all that matters, is that you intern the symbols explicitely in the package passed as parameter, and that you consistently use ,sym to insert it into the generated code. 15:53:45 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-068-143-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:51 (declaim (notinline f)) 15:54:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-230-116.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:06 pjb: yes i understand it now. i didn't know/realize it'd be like that for forms within progn as well (i thought they behaved like toplevel forms if the progn was a toplevel form). i create a package for my users and they supply a body argument. i wanted the package to be available when their code was read. 15:55:21 Zhivago, that *also* sounds likely. :P What I've done is concatenate a bunch of teach-yourself-lisp lesson code files into one file and try to compile it. I'll go through and eliminate redefinitions and double check that dependencies are present. :) ... Wait, are the flags/options/arguments that I can pass to the compiler to tell it to notify me when a redef happens? 15:55:53 s/are the/are there/ 15:56:14 madnificent: I see. If you can read the package and the body separately, you can _read_ the body in the package. 15:56:41 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:56:42 pjb: how could i read them separately? 15:56:46 madnificent: (let ((*package* (find-package (read-line stream)))) (list *package* (read stream))) 15:56:56 With two read calls. 15:57:29 but the users supply the code in a lisp file, in an s-expression... i'd have to adjust the reader to make it work for that, no? 15:57:31 Be it interactively or from a file. 15:57:51 (or make my users supply a string, but that is insanity:P) 15:57:53 Adjust the reader only means binding *package* here. 15:57:58 -!- koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:57:59 Even in a string. 15:58:05 maxm- that worked great. 15:58:12 koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has joined #lisp 15:58:23 SidH__ [~heroor@122.172.45.7] has joined #lisp 15:58:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:58:30 I see that *redefinition-warnings* will give me what I want. Thanks Zhivago, stassats`. 15:58:33 maxm- could there any compatibility issues though now that Ihave case sensitive reader enabled? 15:59:00 pjb: i'd have to adjust the reader to make sure it doesn't read the contents of my body beforehand. though i think it is sane to make them do it in two steps. it's a bit sad and somewhat odd, but it does make sense. 15:59:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:59:38 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 16:01:21 sezo: so far I have not found any major packages that have problem with it, but I only use a few, ie alexandria, commonqt etc 16:01:43 pjb: also, i don't want it to be the default package, which is what *package* would do. i wanted the package to be available via the handy syntax (p5:hotpo ...) 16:02:25 usually packages that generate symbol names may have a potential problem if they are not careful, and use capitalized (format) and intern.. But if they careful or use alexandria:symbolicate, they will be fine 16:03:27 sezo: if you take commonqt in my git, it has a fix to qt-repl, that adds an optional EXPANDER parameter, which defaults to identity.. It lets you set it up, so that anything typed in repl automatically goes through (with-qt) 16:03:59 sezo: you won't be able to use pjb-ware! 16:04:07 madnificent: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128745#1 16:04:12 sounds good, do you have a link? 16:04:13 also has a few other fixes, such as if you issued a long running op, C-c C-c interrupts Qt gui thread, rather then REPL one stuck in blocking cross-thread signal call 16:04:39 madnificent: well, the package is always available with the handy syntax p5:hotpo. 16:04:49 pjb-ware is non-case friendly? I thought it was only H4ns stuck in the 1970's :-) 16:05:00 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has left #lisp 16:05:18 pjb: What repository holds the best version of ansi-tests? The one on common-lisp.net? 16:05:21 maxm-: I expect the default standard readtable-case. 16:05:42 stassats`: btw you gonna merge my stuff, or you have some objections to the fixes? I can take the print-qobect stuff, or just make it a generic 16:05:57 since then I had added qtypecase and eqtypecase too 16:06:08 I took it from svn checkout svn://common-lisp.net/project/ansi-test/svn/trunk/ansi-tests 16:06:15 Thanks! 16:06:38 maxm-: but indeed, since I balance between uppercase and lower case, my sources are not consistently cased. 16:06:54 maxm-: maybe 16:06:54 maxm you know what else would be cool? if we could get SLIME argument hints when typing (obj.method . wonder if that would be possible 16:06:55 maxm-: perhaps I should process them to put them in a single case. 16:07:07 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 16:07:28 sezo: that's possible. Somebody worked on something similar recently. 16:08:30 pjb: if i add an &body argument to define-my-stuff and generate `(progn (generate-package-name-and-stuff package-name) ,@body) then the body can't use the package like (define-my-stuff p5 (p5:hotpo 10)) 16:08:40 sezo: its in my todo list, to implement tab completion by using (qdescribe), but I don't know when I'll have time for it 16:08:52 pjb: there's a , missing in there 16:09:43 madnificent: the generate package name stuff need to be inside of eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute), thought we went through this yesterday 16:09:52 madnificent: Did you use the raw text? It works here. 16:09:56 madnificent: see also http://paste.lisp.org/+2RC9/2 16:10:03 pjb: no, not with raw text 16:10:06 maxm-: that doesn't work either. 16:10:27 You may want indeed to wisely choose the package(s) in which things are read. 16:10:40 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:51 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:55 pjb: i understand that it'll work with raw text now, it's read when the package is known then. but there's no way i can use the (p5:hotpo ...) syntax otherwise, right? 16:11:15 madnificent: not in YOUR sources. 16:11:25 since p5 is known only at run-time. 16:11:25 clintm [~clintm@c-71-197-178-162.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:27 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:31 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-230-116.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:40 Look at my functions, there's no mention of the package name. 16:11:43 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:50 The package name is only held in variables, at run-time. 16:12:28 pjb: yes, i understand what you do. i was wondering if i could work around it. the macro the user enters creates the package. they'll have to supply the body separately (but i guess that'll have to be ok) 16:13:38 BrianRice` [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:39 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:39 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 16:14:49 BrianRice` [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:50 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:50 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 16:16:07 flip212: 0001-smarter-INLINE-EXPANSION-OK.patch 16:17:01 not that it will make your example perform dramatically better, because KEYWORDP isn't foldable, since (unintern :a :keyword) must have consequences... 16:17:10 madnificent: otherwise, check the using macro recently posted, and http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/Ambitious.html 16:17:25 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 16:17:25 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has quit [Changing host] 16:17:25 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 16:19:15 pjb: for the record, i've read your pastes and they've been clarifying 16:19:58 BrianRice` [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:58 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:59 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 16:20:06 Yes, I always think that the code is clearer than the comments around it 16:22:31 nikodemus: I don't know... Could unintern be considered a side effect on literal data? 16:23:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:33 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-179-236-140.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:34 -!- dnolen [~user@67.106.254.3.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:26:02 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-247.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:49 -!- tsuru``` is now known as tsuru` 16:26:58 andrerc [~Adium@151.112.5.190] has joined #lisp 16:27:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.58.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:27:35 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-89.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:28:41 hmm weird, I think SBCL may in fact have a bug regarding this 16:29:13 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:25 maxm-: there's a ticket. Don't know that it's a bug. 16:29:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:29:47 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-398994.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:30:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128750 16:30:21 Example as pasted works both in loading file, or compling then loading fasl 16:30:44 but if you take 2nd eval-when inside of progn, it signals error on non-existing package when trying to compile baz 16:31:17 *maxm-* remembers reading that top level progn is special, and processes sub-forms as if these were top level forms 16:31:25 [SLB] [~slabua@host22-160-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host22-160-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 16:31:25 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:31:32 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:49 maxm-: it still has to read the entire form before evaluating any of it. 16:32:10 Or not: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/Ambitious.html 16:32:12 ah actually yea 16:32:17 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-50-155.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:23 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 well you never know if outer progn is well formed until you reach the end 16:33:09 but actually abmigious implementation may read symbols as (reserved-for-maybe-will-appear-package):whatever 16:33:38 then as it executes every forms in progn that is inside of eval-when, it can resolve them 16:33:47 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-247.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:15 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:34:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:36:52 there must be some way to solve this.. ie have single macro that both defines the package, and uses stuff in it 16:37:16 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:16 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:16 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 16:37:26 if you put "read" in front of "macro" 16:38:15 -!- andrerc [~Adium@151.112.5.190] has left #lisp 16:38:58 Xach: imho what madnificent is after, is something like ... (generate-stuff-from-dtd "whatever.dtd") expanding into (defun whatever-dtd:validate-this) (defun whatever-dtd:get-that) etc 16:39:12 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 16:39:18 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 16:39:22 kilon_alios [~kilon@ppp-94-64-177-25.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:39:51 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:40:09 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-179-236-140.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:11 madnificent: as long as you only use package in function names (for easy access to it after).. Just generate code in whetever local package you are, then use (setf (fdefinition (intern "NAME") your-package)).. That will work coz it does not go through a reader 16:40:23 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-80-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:40:30 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 16:41:43 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-172-177.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 16:41:44 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-398994.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:42:08 madnificent: an alternative is to use rename-package to add the name given by the user as a nickname to an existing package., 16:42:17 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-181-232-215.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:32 ah actually that may be the solution 16:42:46 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:45:03 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.184] has joined #lisp 16:47:39 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:47:58 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:48:07 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-010-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:09 -!- jdz [~jdz@host202-90-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:36 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-71-197-178-162.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:54:44 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-38-48.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:55:09 -!- Zypeh [~zypeh@60.53.119.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:55:43 -!- SidH__ [~heroor@122.172.45.7] has quit [Quit: SidH__] 16:56:48 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:56:59 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57:12 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-215-135.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:57:21 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-172.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:56 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:16 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-137-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:02:42 madnificent: best I can come up with is http://paste.lisp.org/display/128752 17:02:57 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-181-232-215.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:03:02 madnificent: requires your user to use #.(make-dtd-package whatever) 17:03:16 but otherwise I think has all the rest of stuff you wanted.. Donno how portable it is 17:03:45 number is misspelled in paste, but it works :-) 17:05:02 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.23] has joined #lisp 17:06:53 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:08:18 dnolen [~user@67.106.254.200.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:37 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 17:11:58 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:13:45 como [~como@cpe-67-244-7-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:07 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:14:09 is there a lisp library like python itertools? 17:14:21 what is itertools? 17:14:32 http://docs.python.org/library/itertools.html 17:14:42 can you describe it? 17:14:46 i'm not interested in python 17:14:48 iterate. 17:16:07 it a collection of functions that create iterators with different iteration strategies on sequencies 17:17:21 pjb: thanks, that might be what I need 17:17:28 Neat library. 17:18:03 http://l1sp.org/iterate 17:18:27 yeah iterate is like loop only extensible, so if it doesn't already do what you want from itertools out-of-the-box it should be easy to add 17:19:36 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:06 cmm [~cmm@109.67.217.134] has joined #lisp 17:21:28 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has joined #lisp 17:21:29 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:24:07 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:24:17 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.217.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:24:50 hmm, trivial-irc by naryl has disappeared from github 17:26:48 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:27:50 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120314211133]] 17:28:07 maxm-: that doesn't work when supplying a body etiher. i could use that in the same as pjb's pastes :) it's interesting to see too though. 17:29:15 the code generation itself works so far, what it outputs from the dtd is even configurable with ContextL at this time. but i can't do everything within one specified form, or so it seems. that's just a bit sad. nothing extreme, yet i'd have preferred the syntax to be in one block. 17:30:51 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-232-202.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:32 madnificent: yea only way to do what you after is with reader macro that is installed in a separate toplevel form anyway 17:36:52 gitorious down, then repo.or.cz down 17:39:01 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319373.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:39:30 maxm-: it's interesting as a limitation though. i haven't read the article on Ambitious Evaluation that pjb linked me to yet, but perhaps that has some trick (though i don't see something really simple at this time myself) 17:40:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-232-202.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:39 -!- Sebboh [~hobbes@unaffiliated/sebboh] has quit [Quit: move] 17:40:51 madnificent: the trick is that you'd need to replace the reader macros to implement early evaluation. 17:41:37 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@ppp-94-64-177-25.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:42:01 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 17:42:07 just recognize its getting too complicated, and do simpler if somewhat less elegant solution 17:42:21 ie make user type things in 2 forms rather then 1 17:42:47 pjb: yeah, that, or fetching the body arg into a string and postponing the reading of it. either case i'm still interested 17:43:14 maxm-: sexml is a library with odd stuff in it, i've walked some extra miles on it anyways, i might do this too. it's all about the funk i guess. 17:43:42 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:44:37 -!- otwierac1 is now known as otwieracz 17:45:12 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:47:10 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:47:22 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:47:47 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 17:49:16 On the book On Lisp, the author suggest creating `delay' and `force' procedures using theses: . But I can't use them in the way I'm use to. For exampl. 17:49:26 Wait, there is more. 17:50:05 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:50:20 For example, (delay (/ 1 0)) makes sbcl complain about the division before I force it, and I can't do (defparameter ones (cons 1 (delay ones))). 17:50:37 Am I doing something wrong here? 17:50:39 That's because sbcl optimizes things. 17:50:52 (let ((de (read))) (delay (/ 1 de))) should work better. 17:51:27 (defvar ones) (setq ones (cons 1 (delay ones)) 17:51:28 pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:32 didi: what do you mean you can't do? 17:52:44 pjb: oic. Thank you. 17:53:00 -!- ainm [~ainm@165.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:53:07 ainm [~ainm@165.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:23 stassats`: It complains about not knowing ones and, if I later try to (force (cdr ones)), the stack blows. 17:55:06 stassats`: Look: http://paste.kde.org/451358/ 17:55:45 of course it will, you're trying to print a circular lists 17:55:49 set *print-circle* to t 17:56:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-163-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56:32 It shouldn't try to print a circular list. It's a stream. 17:57:00 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:57:03 what is a stream? 17:57:18 stassats`: A delayed list, most of the time. 17:57:53 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.175.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:14 so is it a list or a stream? 17:58:21 It's a stream. 17:58:26 Which is a delayed list. 17:58:34 so, it's a list 17:58:40 Delayed. Yes. 17:58:50 common lisp has no delayed lists 17:59:16 I know. That's why I was following OnLisp advice in how to make one. 18:00:48 alvis [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:21 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.21.241] has joined #lisp 18:01:43 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:36 is the macro copied verbatim? because it's wrong 18:02:36 stassats`: Thank you about the *print-circle*. It know prints fine. 18:02:45 stassats`: Yes, it is. 18:02:51 stassats`: Or it should, at least. 18:04:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5FB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-199-83.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 pjb: wel, i could adjust that so it only reads top-level progn forms eagerly. that could make sense in more contexts than my current one. though it would require users to select that reader and as such, enter just as much content. i'll thus postpone it for now, but i might revisit it later :) thanks for the link! 18:05:39 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:52 stassats`: What is wrong with the macro? 18:07:00 well, it doesn't work here 18:07:36 Strange. It's what I'm loading here. 18:07:37 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:07:55 you're loading and not compiling? 18:08:04 stassats`: Yes. C-c C-l. 18:08:13 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-384789.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:08:42 I remember having some difficulties with compiling in this case. 18:09:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-199-83.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:09:23 i think i've found a bug in SBCL 18:09:54 Yupi. 18:09:55 Another one? 18:10:04 i'm good at it! 18:10:08 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319373.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:10:09 -!- dnolen [~user@67.106.254.200.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:25 this sounds a little bit like the fireman/arsonist situation 18:10:58 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:11:04 here's the gist of it (defconstant +foo+ :foo), (defun test (x) (eql x +foo+)), (test +foo+ ) => NIL 18:11:11 every foundry needs at least one arsonist. 18:12:06 (and, of course, you need to compile it) 18:12:26 SBCL warns me even with delayed computation: (lambda () (/ 1 0)) 18:12:49 rightly so, why would you do that? 18:13:00 stassats`: It's delayed. 18:13:08 Maybe I never will compute that. 18:13:15 Who knows? 18:13:25 so delay your reading of style-warnings 18:15:18 didi: warnings are emitted when the code is compiled; that's pretty standard 18:15:18 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:45 jasom: oic. So it's actually compiling my lambda. Interesting. 18:16:03 yes, you can (funcall *) after 18:16:25 pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:29 Vivitron: That's the idea. But what surprised me was the warning about the lambda inside. 18:16:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-219-170.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:08 didi: IIRC all function objects are compiled on SBCL 18:17:15 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-156-31.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:17:40 all compiled all the time 18:17:44 rather, instead of :foo for constant, it should be an unintered symbol 18:17:50 Yup, lisp compilers are pretty smart these days. For a user function you could define something like a 18:17:52 compiler-macro that would do the evaluation at compile time if the arguments were constant 18:18:02 so, (defconstant +foo+ (if (boundp '+foo+) +foo+ (make-symbol "foo"))) 18:18:23 Hum. Apparently clisp works differently as it doesn't complain about my (lambda () (/ 1 0)). 18:19:47 (compile nil (lambda () (/ 1 0))) <-- do that in clisp 18:20:04 jasom: Right. 18:20:17 sbcl always compiles functions, which is allowed by the standard 18:20:32 I see. Ah, I'm getting this. 18:20:39 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Compiler_002donly-Implementation 18:22:08 (compiled-function-p (lambda () (/ 1 0))) <-- evaluates to T in sbcl and nil in clisp 18:30:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-219-170.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:31:34 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-191-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:32:13 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:34:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:44 With CLISP, the oddities with (delay (/ 1 0)) and (defparameter ones (cons 1 (delay ones))) don't show up, but I still need to (setq *print-circle* t). Oh well, I keep learning. 18:37:14 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-191-178.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:39:04 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-221-160.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:44 kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.155] has joined #lisp 18:41:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.155] has quit [Changing host] 18:41:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:42:52 those are not oddities 18:43:24 your expectation are just odd 18:44:26 It well could be. 18:44:44 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:44:55 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 18:45:47 bjonnh [~bjonnh@bdn33-2-89-86-25-253.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:46:10 returning '(quoted lists) can be dangerous, right? (if caller of the function goes destructive/mutative on it?) 18:46:26 no, it cannot be dangerous 18:46:55 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-156-31.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:47:04 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:47:06 destructively modifying things can be dangerous 18:47:17 robot-beethoven: You'll mutate the thing inside the procedure. 18:47:34 didi: that's what I mean 18:47:45 didi: altering future calls to the procedure 18:47:57 robot-beethoven: Yes. 18:48:05 stassats`: this returns T in SBCL 1.0.45.gentoo-r0 18:48:18 now to what I'm really wondering: is it the same for `(backquote lists)? 18:48:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-221-160.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:48:43 robot-beethoven: ` is worse, because parts can be literal, and you don't know which parts! :-) 18:48:59 But `(,a ,b ,c) shoud produce a fresh list. 18:50:26 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-156-31.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:50:39 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-210-107.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:02 so, to be safe in general, you should think of a procedure that returns '(quoted) or `(backquoted) as owning the list it returns? 18:51:29 or is it better to just not define such procedures? 18:51:38 i don't think you will ever return a quoted list 18:52:19 but, a quoted list can be a part of some other structure 18:52:38 robot-beethoven: ownership doesn't mean much when you have a garbage collector. Better distinguish mutable and inmutable structures. 18:52:50 robot-beethoven: to be safe you must never modify a quoted list 18:52:55 quote produce literal objects that should be deemed immutable. 18:53:01 so ownership is a non-issue 18:53:05 you should be concerned about modifying side, not producing 18:53:14 if you don't know where the list comes from, don't modify it 18:53:33 backquote produces objects that are part literal part non literal, therefore you should better consider it immutable. 18:53:50 or it may ensue demons not only because it's quoted, but because it's shared somewhere else 18:53:56 copy-seq and copy-tree are useful. Not mutating is even better. 18:54:16 that's why in the standard it's specifically qualified which operators return fresh lists 18:54:35 If you don't see "fresh", don't mutate. 18:54:52 if you don't need, don't mutate 18:55:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-210-107.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-164.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-208-32.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:09 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.30] has joined #lisp 19:01:16 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:01:27 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-50-155.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:30 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-142.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:07 clintm [~clintm@c-71-197-178-162.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:11 pnq 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[~fam@213.175.106.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:53 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.204] has joined #lisp 20:40:55 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:18 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:46:23 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA116E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:46:29 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:34 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-197-61.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:29 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:53:08 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-177-197-61.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53:28 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:43 *felideon* found another use of clisp as an acroynym 20:53:48 http://www.mendeley.com/research/clisp-conversational-lisp-1/ 20:53:49 Well, I don't know why, but I kept receiving weird #:syms with OnLisp's lazy evaluation. I think I prefer SICP's . In the future I'll revisit it. 20:54:56 I wonder if that's where Franz found inspiration for if* 20:55:09 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-179-207-33.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:14 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@200-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:37 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.207] has joined #lisp 20:57:17 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA02E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:30 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA02E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:41 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-9-49.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:14 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA116E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:59:26 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c511.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:58 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-yucmpzzsmeyezsnl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:02:12 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-lveodaazyrikfjut] has joined #lisp 21:06:00 didi: what do you mean getting weird syms 21:06:49 -!- SpitfireWP [~spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:07:08 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:07:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:07:24 maxm-: Let me see if I can't reproduce it again. 21:07:30 s/can't/can 21:08:39 that does not sound right 21:08:40 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:08:46 you using slime, etc? 21:08:58 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-179-207-33.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:09:06 maxm-: Yes. 21:09:07 coz first thing when learning a new language is to make yourself comfortable, and easy to code in 21:09:23 maxm-: (+ slime sbcl) 21:09:30 ok, cool.. anyway the code you pasted works fine, just tested it.. 21:09:37 next time save a screenshot 21:09:49 SpitfireWP [~spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 21:10:37 maxm-: I just found a bug, unfortunately. It should be ,(delay se2), and not (delay ,se2). 21:12:14 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-408433.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:12:50 didi: if you know perl or php, just thing of ` as double quote, and comma as , 21:12:52 cmm- [~cmm@109.64.205.104] has joined #lisp 21:13:00 its the similar concept 21:13:13 -!- como [~como@cpe-67-244-7-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:13:29 comma as $ I meant.. ie perl or php "Value of var is $var" and lisp is `(value of var is ,var) 21:13:54 maxm-: One advantage of this approach is that now I don't have the circular list problem. 21:14:50 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:36 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:15:48 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384789.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:16:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.178] has quit [Quit: Offline] 21:16:21 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 21:18:41 pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:20 -!- inz_killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:33 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:06 Holy sweet Jesus. People complain about CL's case-smooshing. But PHP is case sensitive for variable names but case insensitive for function names. WTFBBQ! 21:24:39 gigamonkey_: makes sense... 21:26:13 gigamonkey_: You've seen the Boolean comparison chart for PHP, yes? ;] 21:26:23 dnm: no 21:27:45 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:27:50 dnm: this thing http://php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php ? 21:27:57 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 21:28:51 gigamonkey_: Sort of. A friend put this together for another friend's presentation about a year or so back: http://i.imgur.com/7unV7.png 21:29:18 gigamonkey_: Same source material. 21:29:25 Yup. 21:29:27 Crazy. 21:29:42 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [] 21:29:47 Of course Rasmus Ledorf is now a co-worker of mine. 21:30:09 ? 21:30:19 Boole's spinning in his tomb 21:30:48 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 21:33:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:34:13 gigamonkey_: you're entering the dark side 21:34:23 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:35:57 scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has joined #lisp 21:36:39 dnm: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat <-- some good javascript wierdness 21:37:53 jasom: Yeah, Gary's talk is pretty funny. 21:38:11 jasom: A friend showed it to me in late January. Literally LOL funny. 21:38:51 dnm: my boss says he watches it every week or two and it still hasn't stopped making him laugh 21:38:52 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:09 jasom: Heh, agreed. I went back to watch it or week or two back just for the giggles. 21:39:20 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:24 jasom: I need to find more people who haven't seen it yet who would get a kick out of it. 21:39:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:43 *scombinator* wishes it was longer / included more examples 21:40:22 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-408433.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:26 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:40:44 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@d54C06DE6.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:41:22 pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:49 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.64.205.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:44:21 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 21:44:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.127.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:45:08 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-137-236.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:01 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:50:29 -!- nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:51:34 -!- booyaa` [~booyaa@adsl-67-121-157-253.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:52:19 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:20 gigamonkey_: a renowned lisper, and the creator of PHP... that should lead to interesting conversations... 21:53:12 felideon: we had one already described by our VP of Engineering as "hilarious" ;-) 21:53:24 haha 21:53:41 kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 21:54:27 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.236] has joined #lisp 21:55:14 nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:33 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:55:40 pjb: seems like my issue is limited in scope to asdf. when i try to load my (or your) code through asdf, it tells me: The name "P8" does not designate any package. 21:55:49 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:56:16 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:56:29 pjb: i've been trying to map my code to yours, but it's only now that i discover that they may not contain any different basic constructions. 21:57:11 ainm [~ainm@28.Red-83-33-84.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:25 pnq [~nick@AC81EC22.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:37 daniel [~daniel@p50829BE3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:48 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-207-202.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:39 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:51 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B326991.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:02:00 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:02:00 -!- mathrick_ 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[~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:57:20 -!- ainm [~ainm@58.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:57:24 ainm [~ainm@94.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:02 Is there some reason to write a macro body as (labels () ...) ? 23:58:38 -!- ainm [~ainm@94.Red-83-33-81.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:58:39 bubzer [~user@ool-45736d6b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:16 specifically wrapping the meat of the macro in a not quoted not quasiquoted labels that introduces no functions 23:59:44 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]