00:00:01 which is a good thing or bad thing, depending on your knowledge of qt, which is zero in my case 00:00:05 what is "lispy"? 00:00:31 having characteristics common to idiomatic common lisp code. 00:01:11 battered in parentheses 00:01:16 then it's common and idiomatic when it comes to writing programs for Qt 00:02:15 Xach: what's the license on your zpack.lisp ? 00:02:38 writing programs for Qt is not common to idiomatic common lisp code :P 00:02:49 pjb: no license yet 00:03:00 what is common to idiomatic common lisp? 00:03:22 probably not a lot! 00:03:22 here we go :) 00:04:16 Xach: Well, I won't distribute it yet anyways. 00:09:08 lispy: adj. similar in the manner to which the speaker writes lisp code 00:09:36 synonyms: "arbitrary" 00:09:53 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:32 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.18.81] has joined #lisp 00:12:22 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:12:42 *slyrus* used sequence:make-sequence-like today 00:13:56 pjb: if it had a license you liked, what would you do with it (aside from just distributing it) 00:14:38 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.60.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:15:16 two- [~textual@67.23.193.215] has joined #lisp 00:18:42 stassats: I seem to recall you advising a new lisper on a matter of idiomatic common lisp style a mere 2 days ago. I'm sorry to hear that you have caught amnesia and forgotten what idiomatic common lisp is. Truly a great loss to the community. :'( 00:19:35 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-72-229-224-111.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:07 what a nonsense 00:21:57 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.63.51] has joined #lisp 00:22:26 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 00:23:04 Xach: I'm using it in conjuction with my reader to read symbols (ie. to make zsymbols and zpackages instead of native ones). 00:23:21 Xach: also, it could be used in sicl and other similar projects. 00:23:47 Xach: I'm removing the z prefix and shadow/export those symbols. 00:24:54 Xach: actually, the only license I must dislike nowadays is GPL 2, since GPL 2 (without the "or ulterior version at your choice" clause) is incompatible with GPL3 and AGPL3. 00:26:09 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.18.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:27:19 stassats: indentation style and placement of closing parens would be one common thing, I hope (: 00:29:33 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 00:29:42 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:30:56 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:31:32 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 00:31:37 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-139-151.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:31:39 Anyone using cl-dot? I'm trying to write hello-world, it gives me "could not open a temporary file: No such file or directory". 00:32:07 I use this http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/projects/cl-dot/#Usage 00:32:17 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 00:35:27 NeedMoreDesu: I used S-Dot recently, and it did the job well 00:36:00 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:36:36 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:56 kenanb: thanks, trying it. 00:42:24 kenanb: As far as I can understand from example: are they just run dot from shell? 00:42:53 -!- ainm [~ainm@205.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ainm] 00:44:44 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-139-151.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:19 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-139-151.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:45:28 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A1C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:46:05 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 00:46:18 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:23 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 00:46:51 NeedMoreDesu: I am not sure I understand what you mean, I just used it to create diagrams in png format. 00:47:17 https://github.com/kenanb/twitgraph this is the code, it is fairly documented. 00:47:24 pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128660 00:47:55 NeedMoreDesu: http://kenanb.wordpress.com/2012/01/22/twitter-diagrams/ these are some sample diagram outputs of that code snippet 00:48:16 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-234.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:31 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.41] has joined #lisp 00:48:55 -!- achiu [~arthurchi@216.174.109.254] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 00:49:41 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-139-151.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:50:42 Xach: Thanks. 00:51:28 tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.102.66.136] has joined #lisp 00:51:54 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:13 kenanb: Thanks, I think I'm starting to get how it works. 00:52:13 00:52:13 00:52:13 00:52:16 00:52:19 00:52:51 deep 00:52:58 ... guess i need to fix autocomplete a bit. 00:53:46 NeedMoreDesu: np, read the docs here http://martin-loetzsch.de/S-DOT/ it is well documented and exteremely easy to use 00:54:32 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.63.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:55:58 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 00:56:14 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 00:56:19 kenanb: Well, my first purpose is to generate this to work on web. Now when I looked through 3 different libs, I guess I'll get trough it. 00:56:19 00:56:20 00:56:20 00:56:23 00:56:27 00:56:34 ..sorry. 00:58:50 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:02:04 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:09:00 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 01:11:38 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.171.119] has joined #lisp 01:11:40 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:45 -!- tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.102.66.136] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:46 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-234.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:16:52 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:57 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has joined #lisp 01:24:03 shosti [~user@c-76-24-17-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined 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stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:09 `could not open a temporary file: No such file or directory' Why? (sb-ext:run-program program args :input (with-input-from-string (stream my-string) stream) :output *standard-output*) 02:25:01 -!- k9quaint [~k9quaint@unaffiliated/k9quaint] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:25:34 Yep, I's about :input, but why can't I use my own string-stream? 02:28:02 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-81.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:31:25 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:36:43 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c96b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:18 -!- sirdancealot2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Wait, IRC is for drug boats? I've been using it all wrong.] 02:40:23 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0d8b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:42:58 DataLinkDroid [~David@110.144.151.204] has joined #lisp 02:47:53 NeedMoreDesu: One thought, try using (make-string-input-stream my-string) instead of (with-input-from-string ...) 02:48:38 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:50:16 jake__ [~jake@c-71-198-241-152.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:18 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:02:11 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.189] has joined #lisp 03:02:26 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has joined #lisp 03:02:43 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has quit [Client Quit] 03:04:06 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:10:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:12:24 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sickle] 03:12:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:17:06 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 03:17:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-124-44.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:15 gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 03:19:42 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 03:20:07 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-144-234.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:05 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 03:26:58 jacius: Lambda-list: ((VAR STRING &KEY INDEX START END) &BODY FORMS-DECLS) 03:27:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:29:42 it should be (with-input-from-string (string-string string) (sb-ext:run-program program args :input string-stream :output *standard-output*)) 03:29:48 (obviously) 03:30:37 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:03 And yea, I think it closes stream outside this sexp, but ... oh, meh, slowpoke. Just right as you typed. But it signals the same error. 03:31:53 can you paste the exact code and backtrace to lisppaste? 03:33:42 Wait a minute. 03:35:56 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:36:46 stassats: http://www.everfall.com/paste/id.php?8kd5afj309b4 03:39:00 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:25 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:08 Commenting out this line i get process exit with 0 code. 03:40:52 s/this line/line with :input 03:41:43 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:43:00 it requires /tmp/ to exists 03:44:22 huh? 03:44:33 duh! 03:46:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:36 -!- cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:14 I'm still in confusing. 03:48:27 *on 03:48:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:48:58 / is a directory separator, tmp is the name of the directory, sb-ext:run-program requires directory /tmp/ to exists 03:52:55 stassats: Where are you getting /tmp/ from? 03:53:14 what do you mean? 03:53:54 Why do you say /tmp/ needs to exist? I don't see any mention of /tmp/ in the paste or in the SBCL docs 03:54:42 from SBCL source code, naturally 03:55:12 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.160.220.151] has joined #lisp 03:55:14 Oh, "naturally". 03:56:40 When I made it like this :input (open "D:\\end06\\qwerty.dot") it worked 03:56:40 03:56:57 and i've already filed a bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/968837 03:57:03 jacius: Naturally. 03:57:06 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.63.162] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:57:06 NeedMoreDesu: you can remove (open ...) 03:57:07 cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:17 just "D:\\end06\\qwerty.dot" 03:58:27 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8048.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:58:37 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:41 NeedMoreDesu: On a side note, you're less likely to introduce errors in pathname is you use MAKE-PATHNAME, like (make-pathname :host "D" :directory '(:absolute "end06") :name "qwerty" :type "dot") 03:59:00 s/pathname is/pathname if/ 03:59:00 lemoinem [~swoog@28-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:13 -!- ered [~ered@108.201.125.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:49 ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:11 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 04:00:20 but there's no reason to do this 04:01:21 logical host not yet defined: "D" 04:01:38 because it should be :device, not :host 04:01:49 so much for less errors! 04:02:13 lol 04:02:24 That most be implementation dependent. It's :host on LW. 04:02:33 NeedMoreDesu: just use "D:\\end06\\qwerty.dot" as you were 04:02:33 *must* 04:03:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.44] has joined #lisp 04:03:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.44] has quit [Changing host] 04:03:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:04:21 -!- shosti [~user@c-76-24-17-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:05:09 -!- achiu [~achiu@rrcs-74-62-252-146.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06:20 Pathname are notorious for behaving in different ways depending on the implementation. :\ 04:06:52 pathnames are notorious for being notorious 04:07:10 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has joined #lisp 04:08:26 -!- scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:29 Yeah, but why isn't it work with my streams? It work for (open ) stream too, why not input-string stream? 04:10:13 because it needs /tmp/ to create files in 04:10:32 Yeah, I'm slow today. 04:10:34 file-streams are already backed by files 04:11:20 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has quit [Client Quit] 04:12:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zxvpogaypducenio] has joined #lisp 04:12:26 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has joined #lisp 04:14:54 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:11 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:39 -!- ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:44 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:24:15 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:24:54 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:27:14 Ralith 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[~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:44:37 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 08:45:32 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:22 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:51:24 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:01 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:10 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@adsl-71-146-151-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:53:10 tca [~tca@a79-168-253-128.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 08:54:43 Hi all... 08:57:35 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 08:57:39 hi 08:59:14 hi 09:00:57 I'm trying to profile a package using slime M-x slime-profile-package asks two questions: 09:02:23 what is the package: ok. 09:02:55 FreeArtMan [~fam@62.85.99.68] has joined #lisp 09:03:13 "record the most common callers?" I say yes, ok. 09:03:46 "Profile methods?", also yes. 09:04:02 fractal_heart [~mzhang@adsl-71-146-151-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:05 that's three :) 09:04:29 and the question is? 09:04:33 And the the error follows: "The name nil does not designate any package." What am I doing wrong? What's missing? 09:04:49 tca: what package name did you enter? 09:05:11 the one I've made: profile-bis 09:05:16 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:05:17 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:06:05 tca: what slime version, what lisp implementation? 09:06:36 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:07:36 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:09:07 Lisp: SBCL 1.0.40.0.debian, Slime: Can't find the version in source file... looking... 09:09:40 tca: sbcl 1.0.40 is too old. you should upgrade to a recent version and install slime with quicklisp first. 09:10:20 H4ns: it's a bit annoying to install the newest version of sbcl on debian.. 09:11:04 add^_: Nobody says that you have to use a debian package 09:11:10 add^_: it is not. you download and install the binaries in /usr/local, done. 09:11:16 or $HOME/.local 09:11:19 ... 09:11:21 No? 09:11:23 aptitude says that slime is v. 1:201900722-1 ?!?! 09:11:29 You need a newer version of libc 09:11:33 2019, awesome! 09:11:35 tca: don't try to use slime from aptitude. 09:11:36 which debian does not provide 09:11:46 add^_: then you compile it yourself. 09:11:50 Then compile it yourself. It's not hard at all 09:11:55 I'm on my way :-) 09:11:57 add^_: that sounds more painful than it is. 09:12:05 I only said it was annoying 09:12:21 :-P 09:12:31 ok, getting the source code for slime... and going to compile it. 09:12:41 tca: please first upgrade your lisp 09:13:07 Sorry: slime is v. 1:20100722-1 ?!?! 09:13:19 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:13:27 tca: right. upgrade sbcl, then install slime with quicklisp 09:13:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-12.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:13:44 tca: ignore debian packages for everything lisp related 09:13:53 Thanks H4ns. 09:14:04 Oh right, I forgot. Where should I install my newer version of eglibc? Since they don't recommend installing it in /usr/local 09:14:14 ? 09:14:16 TimKack [~user@c-2ec21d2c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 09:14:22 Is that a good advice?"ignore debian packages for everything lisp related" And why? 09:14:32 Well, because it's outdated? 09:14:41 add^_: you don't actually need to do that. it is sufficient if you recompile sbcl with the debian sbcl using your standard libc 09:14:52 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:59 tca: you can ignore my advice, but your lisp experience won't be good. 09:15:15 But when I do that it says "GLIBC_2.14 not found" 09:15:33 H4ans: my experience has been very good so far :P 09:15:34 when I try to use sbcl 09:15:36 add^_: you need an older sbcl version to compile the new one. 09:15:39 ah 09:15:42 wait, no 09:15:48 I already installed the newer one 09:15:55 well 09:15:58 I'll try anyway 09:16:00 add^_: tuff luck. and yes, that _is_ annoying :) 09:16:22 :-) 09:16:22 tca: well. up to a point. then you run into problems, and then you need to do it right or suffer. 09:16:23 <|3b|> you can download a slightly older binary from sbcl's sourceforge page 09:17:10 Indeed 09:17:27 m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.146] has joined #lisp 09:17:31 tca: but if you ask for support here, you'll have to make sure that you're up to date with your lisp and slime. otherwise, the recurring reply will be "upgrade your lisp and slime first" 09:20:15 H4ns: But are your certain that this (my question, that is) does not occur in the cutting edge versio of sbcl and slime... 09:20:32 tca: not at all. 09:20:49 It will take some time to upgrade... 09:21:15 and if the error persists ... 09:21:31 tca: then? 09:21:47 I will suffer even more :D 09:21:57 "Yay" 09:22:02 .. 09:22:17 tca: i can assure you that slime-profile-package works for me. 09:22:34 <|3b|> tca: if you report problems with current versions, people might fix them... most won't bother trying to fix old versions though 09:22:55 H4ns: Thanks. I will follow your advice and report later. 09:23:37 |3b|: Ok, got it. 09:26:33 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 09:28:02 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 09:28:10 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 09:28:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-185.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:29:10 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.2.5] has joined #lisp 09:29:29 Don't understand this thing. Why? http://www.everfall.com/paste/id.php?8i6heu78pwhd 09:30:03 Second is the same with asdf:run-shell-command 09:30:29 Why it passes strange argument to it? 09:30:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: home] 09:31:33 sn0rri [~sn0rri@213.249.49.158] has joined #lisp 09:31:42 H4ns: I've tried using CLISP (from debian) and slime-profile-report works! 09:32:20 tca: nice. just that the results are not very useful if you plan to deploy with sbcl :) 09:32:25 H4ns: I mean slime-profile-package 09:32:34 oops 09:32:34 I think I messed up my system xD 09:32:35 Oh well 09:32:55 H4ns: you are right! 09:34:42 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:25 And I can't get sb-ext:run-program to work with :input. It works when I pass file as argument, but not when give a file to stream. 09:36:59 NeedMoreDesu: you may have more luck with ccl or clisp on windows 09:37:08 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:39:36 antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has joined #lisp 09:43:03 I found out why. Yep, all's working. 09:43:34 I just used bad version of sbcl. 09:45:41 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 09:45:51 -!- antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:27 NeedMoreDesu: i don't see in documentation for sb-ext:run-program that it takes a string for input 09:46:29 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:47:02 H4ns: Just found what is causing the error! 09:47:29 I add a line in my .sbclrc (setf *print-case* :downcase) 09:47:38 tca: ah, nice! 09:47:49 but not in .clisprc 09:48:05 that is why it worked in clisp! 09:48:25 but if I include the same line in .clisprc 09:48:28 jdz: It takes. It can be nil, t, string, stream. 09:48:34 tca: then don't. 09:48:35 profile-package does not work 09:48:56 NeedMoreDesu: well, my documentation says «Either t, nil, a pathname, a stream, or :stream.» 09:48:57 Sorry I can't make proofs, I really need to go. Bye. 09:49:08 tca: but what you _could_ do is finish your sentences before you send them to the channel :) 09:49:17 jdz: pathname is string I guess. 09:49:27 NeedMoreDesu: no it is not 09:49:29 But why does it depend on case? 09:49:35 antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has joined #lisp 09:49:44 #P"" thingy you mean? 09:49:52 yes, that would be pathname 09:50:11 I think it understands strings as well then. 09:50:15 It shouldn't? Is this correct? 09:50:24 tca: you could try to find out and fix the bug, or you could stop messing with your environment by setting the reader's case related variables to non-standard values. 09:50:39 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.2.5] has quit [Quit: Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!] 09:50:55 tca: there are subtle side effects, and there are several open source libraries that don't work properly with non-standard reader case settings. 09:51:17 ok, the pathname can be a string, too 09:51:53 guys, is there some lib that implements genetic algorithms ? 09:52:12 H4ns: hummm, ok. All upcase from now on! 09:52:26 tca: one gets used to it :) 09:52:27 anonus: http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=genetic 09:52:30 -!- Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:36 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:42 lindes [~user@p4FF1C6B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:53:04 jdz: nothing but GECO which unmaintained as i noticed 09:53:50 «October 25, 2011: Released version 2.01a. Made sure everything still works, and removed old emacs-related cruft.» 09:53:58 i digress 09:55:16 hm, ok, but why there are so much reinvented things in it ? 09:55:28 for example random number generator and "defsystem" 09:55:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:55:48 anonus: because it's a) free, and b) not written by you 09:55:57 i'm little afraid to use this lib 09:56:38 random gen written by author of geco 09:57:03 in case it is indicated in header of random.lisp 09:57:29 anonus: i think you are talking to nobody here. nobody said that they use that library. the only thing that was said is "there is cliki, and it has something". 09:57:56 anonus: please do not complain here if you don't like what you found on cliki. complain to the author maybe, or better yet, fix the library or write a better one. 09:58:26 anonus: also, you may want to pose your question in other channels. #lisp is not the sole source of information for lisp related questions. 09:58:42 just saying. 09:59:40 i'm planning to write my own, but i intends to use some exising libs because it's algorithms is ready and debugged. i just want to make it parallel 10:05:22 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:05:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:05:46 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:37 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:07:15 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 10:09:45 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:15:04 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:27:23 There is a good reason to write your own PRNG for that kind of thing. 10:30:15 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has joined #lisp 10:44:12 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 10:44:44 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-115-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:45:00 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:45:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:46:25 ^ 10:47:35 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:48:21 -!- dsabanin [~dsabanin@89.22.161.11] has quit [Quit: dsabanin] 10:51:13 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:51:58 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:16 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:57:28 *maxm-* found SBCL's (random) works just fine, and produces similar results in genetic/evolutionary algos as the custom ones written in C++ that use /dev/urandom and stuff 10:57:59 if you want to do genetic algos, forget about RPNG's and use (random), you'll be fine 10:58:04 araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has joined #lisp 10:58:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has quit [Changing host] 10:58:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:01:41 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:45 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-115-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:39 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:12 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Quit: reboot] 11:07:43 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:13:04 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:14:19 Am I wrong in assuming that when I implement an object over whose contents one can iterate, that the best strategy is to implement an iterator and the implement map and an extension to iterate on top of that, so that everybody can use their favourite looping construct? 11:14:22 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 11:14:44 and of course a (do-basket (banana basket) ...) 11:17:17 Neronus: personally i prefer to use "iterate" package, for which you can add extensible iteration drivers via define-iterate-clause or such.. SBCL also has extensible sequences, which you can use to make your new basket work with all standard sequence functions, like map, find, reduce etc 11:18:23 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:58 well, as I said "and an extension to iterate on top of that" :) 11:19:16 But of course you can use iterate on the bottom and then the rest on top of that 11:19:56 well was not sure you were using it as system name or as a verb 11:19:56 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: all we are saying; is give peace a chance.] 11:20:27 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 11:21:12 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:23:34 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@213.249.49.158] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:23:39 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:55 ah; sorry :) 11:27:32 *lindes* <3 slime and C-M-x 11:30:34 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:33:17 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:35:30 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:35:33 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@62.85.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:35:54 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 11:41:52 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:43 peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 11:47:29 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:38 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:48 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C6B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:47:54 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:48:44 -!- antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:49:46 Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has joined #lisp 11:50:10 jollyG [~JollyG@KennPAT.uncc.edu] has joined #lisp 11:50:45 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 11:52:22 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:54:43 -!- Guest32898 [~arm@190.108.236.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:56:05 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:36 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-149-91.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:57:45 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:58:42 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-58.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:55 -!- tsuru is now known as tsuru` 12:03:32 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:03:58 sn0rri [~sn0rri@213.249.49.158] has joined #lisp 12:04:38 megamind [~Nevermind@123.16.104.185] has joined #lisp 12:04:52 hey 12:05:33 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@213.249.49.158] has quit [Client Quit] 12:10:01 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-214.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:12:04 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:53 hagish [~hagish@pD9FBED8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:20 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:33 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:20:00 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:24:02 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:24:53 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:25:46 sn0rri [~sn0rri@213.249.49.158] has joined #lisp 12:27:45 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@213.249.49.158] has quit [Client Quit] 12:27:53 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:32:57 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 12:33:24 Word 12:33:50 Hi Xach! 12:36:52 m5g [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has joined #lisp 12:37:06 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:37:08 -!- m5g [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has quit [Client Quit] 12:37:25 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:38:16 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:38:25 I will never understand why the ietf drafts in text-form no about page-numbers, but the pdf versions do not *grml* unsuitable for printing 12:42:28 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has left #lisp 12:44:49 Are bits and font attributes still available for common lisp char objects? 12:46:50 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:47:49 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:12 asvil: I don't know if any implementations support it. 12:49:20 Xach: ok, thanks. 12:51:09 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.191.101] has joined #lisp 12:51:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:51:10 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 12:51:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.191.101] has quit [Changing host] 12:51:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:53:19 btw, I tried pimping lisp yesterday on a quants meetup 12:53:49 Did it work? 12:54:10 two guys who were actually into coding, were under impression that its an interpreted language, slower then R or mathematica. And one guy who heard of SBCL, preferred xlisp? to it, coz of xlisp has graphs 12:55:33 I gave them the standard speech. SBCL as good as C for numerical stuff (a tiny expatriation :-) told the guy who heard of SBCL about quicklisp, had to use "its like CPAN but for lisp" analogy 12:55:55 honestly was a bit disappointed, 25 ppl interesting in applying math to making money, but not a single one who actually trades for themself 12:56:14 i would find it easier to trade someone else's money 12:56:44 overheard a lot of "you know such and such" "used to be with lehman" hes now in city" type talk, but could not butt in really.. Most ppl seems to be into rink management type stuff 12:57:16 s/rink/risk/ 12:57:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-158-242.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 12:59:08 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:59:13 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-158-242.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:01 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 13:03:08 kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-233.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:47 ainm [~ainm@115.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:50 bit late for that, too 13:06:29 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:09:13 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:37 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:11:47 Kryztof: one french guy had funny, about his company software being used by someone invested in madoff. Software warned them that madoff returns "do not correlate with any known asset class" and that his returns are "at least 20 times larger" then the best performing asset class doing the time period... The client submitted it as a bug, saying software was wrong, and then stopped using it 13:12:04 when madoff blew up, client sued, saying software did not warn them strongly enough 13:12:24 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:12:52 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 13:13:07 AI Winter 2 13:17:04 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-158-242.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:17:13 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:06 Xach: too much money produced to lead to winter yet 13:21:06 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 13:21:19 unlike with original AI Winter, the investments yield *very* visible returns 13:21:25 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 13:26:20 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:26:22 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-237-249.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:27 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:26:52 fe[nl]ix: around? 13:29:29 -!- antgreen [~user@67.110.80.10.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:52 Speaking of lisp/finance I noticed Ravenpack advertising an opening http://www.ravenpack.com/aboutus/employment.htm#Lisp 13:33:45 -!- iLogical is now known as dichenson 13:34:50 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-229-9.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:04 Vivitron: when did you notice it? 13:37:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:46 Recently, but that doesn't mean it isn't old. The site looks active. 13:37:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-237-249.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:38:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:59 Vivitron: http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/2011/03/30/common-lisp-developer-marbella-spain/ 13:39:14 (that's when i noticed it :) 13:39:50 Aha:) I did a search on the front page of lispjobs but didn't think to check the archives. 13:40:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:40:18 a year ago, that's when you noticed it 13:40:32 Kryztof: exactly! 13:41:12 icrazyhack [horieyui@115.173.253.176] has joined #lisp 13:41:13 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:47:50 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:48:53 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 13:49:05 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:54 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:50:50 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:23 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:51:42 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:44 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:52:13 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-72-229-224-111.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:37 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:28 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:57:23 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-72-229-224-111.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 13:58:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:03 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-149-91.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:33 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-149-91.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:01:28 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:02:29 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:03:30 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:41 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-149-91.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:03:54 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-vtxmgawgywgjlnsj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:03:56 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 14:04:58 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 14:11:55 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:12:47 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:04 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:13:14 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:13:16 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.82.175] has joined #lisp 14:13:40 hi folks, is there a way to flatten a nested list? 14:13:49 kenanb: alexandria:flatten is one easy way 14:14:30 Xach: thanks Xach :) 14:15:07 kenanb, the idea is to recursively walk the tree and push each element to a new list. 14:15:12 LiamH: yes 14:15:38 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:45 fe[nl]ix: Have you seen this? https://github.com/mathematical-systems/cl-static-array 14:16:25 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@220.227.122.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:16:48 Trying to do the same thing as static-vectors? 14:17:03 dtw: I wrote something similar before, my concern is not duplicating functionality that is already defined in standard or a popular library 14:17:25 dtw: so using Alexandria is the way to go I guess 14:18:11 -!- dichenson [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:12 kenanb, yes, that's what I would do too. :-) 14:22:09 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:23:44 LiamH: no, it's a totally different thing 14:24:12 What is it? 14:25:49 clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:22 that library 14:27:26 it defines the array type as a struct and shadows cl:aref 14:27:44 I'm missing something fundamental here, clearly. '((:thing . (concatenate 'string "a" "b"))) what I want is '((:thing . "ab")) of course, but no combination of ` and , seem to work. 14:28:17 `((:thing . ,(concatenate 'string "a" "b"))) 14:28:55 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:29:04 clintm: notice the difference between ` and ' 14:29:05 `'((:thing ,@(concatenate 'string "a" "b"))) => '((:THING . "ab")) 14:29:21 fe[nl]ix: I swear that's the first thing I tried. huh. 14:29:22 fe[nl]ix: oh, I wondered if there was anything worthwhile there that we didn't already have. 14:30:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@69.212.124.44] has joined #lisp 14:30:14 oooooh, for some reason, I didn't think you could say `'( 14:30:25 LiamH: not IMO 14:30:44 clintm: also note that that might not be what you want 14:31:00 thanks fe[nl]ix, dtw, and jdz 14:31:02 clintm: and also, 'foo is just a shorthand for (quote foo) 14:31:16 LiamH: the only useful thing we can't do with static-vectors is disguise a mmap'd file as a vector 14:31:52 chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #lisp 14:31:54 LiamH: for that we need the implementation to support arrays displaced to a foreign pointer 14:32:41 fe[nl]ix: Ah, OK. I don't think I've ever used a mmaped file. 14:33:15 Arrays displaced to a foreign vector is only supported by ACL? 14:36:15 treyka [~treyka@ip-188-118-20-209.reverse.destiny.be] has joined #lisp 14:37:44 LiamH: no, not even Allegro 14:37:54 dtw: in your example, I'm not quite clear on why the fact that you are making an alist is implicit. 14:38:27 optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has joined #lisp 14:38:33 mathematical systems looks like a solid company 14:38:35 LiamH: Allegro has a type of array where the header is separate from the data, which allows it to be reclaimed by the GC 14:38:41 they use CL, they use org-mode notes 14:39:05 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 14:39:06 not clear on which license their code is under though.... 14:39:29 LiamH: but there's no way to specify the foreign pointer to which the array is displaced 14:39:57 fe[nl]ix: That's what I was remembering you said about ACL. 14:40:03 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 14:40:13 clintm: `'((:thing . ,(concatenate 'string "a" "b"))) => '((:THING . "ab")) 14:41:32 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-318646.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:42:23 jdz: right, but `'((:thing ,@(concatenate 'string "a" "b"))) - ie no . between :thing and ,@(conc... does the same thing and I'm not clear on why. Though I just got up not long ago, and might just be my early a.m. density. 14:42:55 clintm: notice the , and ,@ before concatenate form 14:43:38 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733]] 14:43:49 jdz: is it someting besides the symantic differences between , a 14:43:51 oops 14:44:12 , is unquote, ,@ is unquote-splicing 14:44:17 meant to ctrl-u... 14:45:05 clintm: instead of quasiquote you can try without it 14:45:46 hrrrmm... maybe I only *think* I get the , ,@ difference from writing small macros. 14:46:16 clintm, difficult to explain. I actually wrote the "." and ,(concatenate) in my custom /EVAL command but SBCL's printer changed it to ,@(concatenate ...). 14:47:08 clintm: (values (list (cons :thing "ab")) (list (list* :thing "ab")) (list (list :thing "ab"))) 14:48:05 (I have /eval command in IRC client. It evaluates expression in SBCL and returns the value with "=>".) 14:48:35 -!- jollyG [~JollyG@KennPAT.uncc.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:03 FreeArtMan [~fam@62.85.99.68] has joined #lisp 14:49:28 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:12 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-192-196.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:50:24 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 14:50:31 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:51:29 jollyG [~JollyG@KennPAT.uncc.edu] has joined #lisp 14:51:32 boy, I wasn't wrong re. I'm missing something fundamental. (defpa. *b* "honk") / `'(a ,*b*) vs `'(a ,@*b*) .. I was expecting `'(a ,@b) to expend to '(a (b)) for whatever reason. 14:51:50 dtw: I patched it not to send the message, but just insert it in the erc buffer, so that I can check it, decorate it and send it. 14:51:51 err, expand to 14:52:18 clintm: '(a b) has the same cons structure as (cons 'a (cons 'b nil)), but '(a . b) has the same cons structure as (cons 'a 'b), that's where the similarity between splicing [ ,@(...) ] one element and the dot notation comes from 14:52:31 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:37 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-176-78.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:52:51 Vivitron: yes, at the end of the list 14:52:58 pjb, "it"? Is there an implemantation of /EVAL somewhere? I did it myself. Thanks for the idea though. I could to that too. (Actually I'd prefer an eval bot but ...) 14:53:03 dtw: http://paste.lisp.org/+2RA4 14:53:33 Ah, it was sycopomp. 14:53:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-183-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:46 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-183-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:54:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-183-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-183-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:54:33 Vivitron: sounds like I'm making it harder on myself thinking of an alist as somehow different fundamentally than any regular list. 14:54:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-183-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:55 dtw: there's also a CL eval bot in development. 14:55:32 pjb, yes, I'm doing one. 14:55:34 does there happen to be a (macroexpand - a like function to expand a list out into its explicit (cons x (cons y ... list? 14:56:07 dtw: If #lisp vetoe it, #emacs has fsbot and rudibot. They'd probably gladly take clbot. 14:56:16 why do you need that? 14:56:59 It can support discussions: !tell !dick quicklisp / !clhs / ,expression 14:57:00 stassats: lurk in #scheme and #emacs and see how it's used. 14:57:06 clintm: not that I know of, but pjb has a nice printer of cons with com.informatimago.common-lisp.picture.cons-to-ascii:draw-list 14:57:18 !dict (= dictionary, I meant) 14:57:25 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:57:57 Vivitron: hah, nice. that's quite a name. 14:58:33 clintm: get it with quicklisp: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp) 14:59:01 pjb: oh, even better. thanks! 14:59:09 I meant to suggest that have an CL eval and help bot on two channels: #lisp and #lisp-repl. The latter would be for playing and testing and other noisy stuff. The bot would be used on #lisp only when it supports the discussion. 14:59:23 bas_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 14:59:27 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 14:59:45 Vivitron: also, thank you and everyone else. gotta take off for a bit but I'll see if this stuff doesn't sink in on the way to the doctor. 14:59:48 clintm: or write your own: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128670 14:59:53 thanks again guys. 14:59:58 Like !tell !dict install-slime 15:00:01 jdz: I'll give it a shot when I get back. 15:00:02 -!- clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:00:18 in the good old days, minion was here for that kind of thing 15:00:46 and we had clhs and lisppaste. 15:00:55 *sigh* 15:01:12 No-one ever put an evalbot here, as far as I know -- it's really not that easy to sandbox CL enough 15:01:12 and the grass was greener... 15:01:20 and the coffee was tastier 15:01:30 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gone] 15:02:11 and the honey was sweeter 15:02:35 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:03:20 nikodemus: fyi, your latest slime changelog entry wraps oddly 15:03:33 or rather, it seems to wrap at something like 90 rather than something like 80 15:04:47 (I put my CL eval/help bot on #lisp-repl channel again for testing.) 15:04:59 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 15:05:42 dtw: will it allow me to do (sb-ext:run-program "rm" '("/"))? 15:06:03 jdz, no. 15:06:06 you can join and try 15:06:16 what else are eval bots good for? 15:06:57 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:19 lindes [~user@p4FF1C6B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:27 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 15:08:40 jdz: you can't rm /, it's a directory. 15:08:59 and you can't rm -rf /, you don't have access rights. 15:08:59 pjb: thanks, i'll try to remember that. 15:09:05 Try: sudo rm -rf / 15:09:14 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:09:47 way to escape the past, pjb! 15:09:55 pjb: really? I think you should try rm -rf / without sudo, and see what happens. :-P 15:10:06 *lindes* is, of course, very much kidding. 15:10:31 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.41] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 just be sure to ignore all the errors it spews. maybe riderect stderr to /dev/null, and just wait. 15:11:19 paul0 [~user@177.41.243.226] has joined #lisp 15:11:19 lindes: well, you're allowed to erase all your files, if you're not root, that should have no incidence on the working of the system :-) 15:11:53 well, I only just connected, so I completely missed where this came from, but... yeah, it'll still do just fine at removing plenty of your own files. 15:11:54 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:13:16 dtw: we tell everybody not to paste to the channel, so why would we want a bot that effectively does just that? 15:13:41 dtw: such an eval bot is only good for the most trivial of cases. as soon as there is only a little nesting, it becomes a nuisance. 15:13:53 tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.220.151] has joined #lisp 15:14:10 H4ns: we keep quoting forms and their results: (+ 2 3) --> 5 15:14:40 H4ns: it'd be useful if a bot computed the results for us. The bot can also send it to lisppaste if it's too big. 15:14:52 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has joined #lisp 15:15:08 the eval bot could have a code length limit + number of evaluations per minute limit, and so on. 15:15:10 pjb: yeah. lisppaste needs fixing. that i agree to. 15:15:58 h4ns: dtw's bot also does hyperspec linking 15:16:06 who owns lisppaste btw? 15:16:23 being able to !clhs foo again would be nice. It's been a long time since we had that. :\ 15:16:33 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.41] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 15:17:01 my thinking is that we had bots that were witty, useful and linked to lisppaste and i'd like to see those back. 15:17:24 but then, other witty and useful bots that are connected to a paste site which does lisp formatting well would be as good. 15:18:03 what happened to all those bots? 15:18:19 they vanished, ok, but when and why (and I assume: with whom)? 15:18:36 they are still on common-lisp.net, but i do not know who maintains them. 15:18:53 i think they were switched off because there is a problem in cl-irc that makes them instable. 15:19:02 ok 15:19:06 but i've never seen anyone give any precise answer to that question. 15:19:42 H4ns: if i want to fix the problem, who should i talk to? 15:20:00 stassats: if i knew! 15:20:07 -!- morganb [~user@ip24-250-206-250.ga.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:20:15 well, you should! 15:20:25 stassats: i mean, this is kind of a thing where i tend to think that i could just use my administrative rights to empower whoever wants to fix it. 15:20:32 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:39 pjb: significant portions of cons-to-ascii.lisp uppercased; were they written with ibcl? 15:20:47 but i'll gladly not do it if anyone speaks up and objects. 15:20:47 Sbidicuda [~antani@host187-229-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:20:48 * are uppercased 15:21:11 Vivitron: No. I have emacs commands to upcase or downcase lisp code. 15:21:21 stassats: you got an common-lisp.net account? 15:21:29 Search them in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/emacs 15:21:50 H4ns: yes, sboukarev 15:22:32 pjb: thanks 15:23:14 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:23:26 *Neronus* votes for moving cl-irc to github. At least websvn is not working anymore 15:25:05 never mind. svn works; so its not necessary 15:26:05 stassats: done. 15:26:18 ok, what superpowers do i have now? 15:26:22 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-38.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:26:46 ok, i have a lisppaste group 15:27:04 I've got a neat irc bot, but I'm having to get it open sourced because I developed it at work :p 15:27:04 stassats: you are member of the lisppaste group and you can write the files in /home/lisppaste. when you need anything else, let me know. i'd suggest that you have a look at the stuff and get back to me with anything you need. 15:27:24 *H4ns* hands dlowe a pile of paper forms to fill out 15:28:11 H4ns: can i start the bots? 15:28:45 i mean, does it require anything special? 15:29:04 stassats: i don't know. please look at the readme file 15:29:08 the people who were most recently in charge of it were (I think) drewc and nyef 15:29:19 H4ns: ok 15:29:22 H4ns: thanks 15:29:31 stassats: thank you 15:29:54 H4ns, you are exaggerating. An eval/help has its uses when showing small examples. I suggest having one on two channels. Noisy stuff and playing on #lisp-repl. On #lisp it would be used only to support discussion. 15:30:04 An eval/help _bot_ 15:30:36 -!- icrazyhack [horieyui@115.173.253.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:54 icrazyhack [horieyui@115.173.253.176] has joined #lisp 15:30:57 i don't see how the ability to evaluate small examples would be helpful to anyone 15:31:06 don't they have a repl or something? 15:31:28 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 15:32:13 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.23.124.245] has joined #lisp 15:32:46 And I don't see why don't see it. Having a common, visible REPL for all is better for discussion. And a bot could do things like !tell !dict install-slime (Show a dictionary item for "install-slime") 15:32:55 H4ns: any idea what the problem with cl-irc was? 15:33:10 dtw: the bot for telling newbies to go RTFM already exists 15:33:12 stassats: books and tutorials about lisp usually contain a lot of example forms and their results. 15:33:16 dlowe: no, sorry. 15:33:28 dtw: you do not have to make a case for that; we already know it's useful 15:33:32 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:33:42 please concentrate on the motivation for eval functionality 15:34:03 Kryztof: "i wrote it" 15:34:11 And fsbot and rudybot are not abused. 15:34:14 "lisppaste requires a recent SBCL 0.8" 15:34:15 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:34:17 "recent"... 15:34:17 i'm not saying that that is not a valid motivation. 15:34:21 OK. There was the general idea. To help discussion. 15:34:28 stassats: try 0.8.5 15:34:50 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:09 H4ns: isn't that a bit of a demeaning way to put it? 15:35:33 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:35:39 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.160.220.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:35:45 sykopomp: maybe. i'm retracting that comment. 15:37:54 Spion_ [~spion@77.29.254.250] has joined #lisp 15:37:57 -!- Spion_ [~spion@77.29.254.250] has quit [Changing host] 15:37:57 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:38:04 dtw: the normal problem with an evalbot is sandboxing sufficiently to everyone's satisfaction 15:38:47 Well, fsbot sometimes answers that fs-something is not defined, but that's no big deal. 15:39:23 Ie. how often newbies come with a question regarding files or run-program? 15:39:46 happened earlier today 15:40:05 That's why I'm writing a virtual-fs :-) 15:41:05 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:10 hrs [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:41:24 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:41:35 -!- hrs [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:53 hrs [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:42:10 -!- hrs [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has left #lisp 15:42:31 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:25 I guess the easiest solution would to put the bot into a VM. If something goes wrong, just reload the image. Wouldn't it? 15:43:26 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:43:54 hrs [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:44:15 I'm not all that concerned about sandboxing. With bots that produce public responses, I most often get annoyed by aimless poking and prodding for "amusing" results. 15:44:16 -!- tca [~tca@a79-168-253-128.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:52 yeah, or by people senselessly trying to see how well the sandboxing works. 15:45:43 Again this doesn't occur often with rudybot or fsbot, you can easily /msg and the bot could do it itself once it senses that it's being proded or poked. 15:46:13 kpreid_ [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:14 pjb: Happened pretty often with minion. 15:46:46 morganb [~user@n128-227-3-84.xlate.ufl.edu] has joined #lisp 15:47:13 Well, rudybot and fsbot also have eliza modes. I don't commend it, indeed. 15:47:20 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.102] has joined #lisp 15:48:26 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:27 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-115-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48:48 minion had a nice rate limiter, though 15:50:13 So, it does more harm than good? 15:50:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:38 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@62.85.99.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:38 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:13 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 15:51:21 dtw: if you are convinced that it does good, you can try it out. i'm sure that it will get banned if it is too annoying. 15:51:38 dtw: i'm not threatening, i'm not a channel op. 15:52:11 I would suggest a policy that all playing and noisy stuff would be on a different channel. 15:52:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:52:55 dtw: you could have it send large responses to that other channel and reply with an according message here. 15:52:56 Currently I don't have server hardware (nor service) ready for such bot. I'm here gathering people's opinions. 15:53:14 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 15:53:27 how about just trying it out? If it actually turns out to be a nuisance, we could feature a public burning 15:53:29 But if there is interest I could buy s small virtual machine service. 15:53:37 prxq, yes, I might do that. 15:53:46 is ther any problem in using `(,foo ,@bar) kind of expressions in normal functions 15:54:02 kenanb: not at all. 15:54:03 kenanb: No. It will produce a list 15:54:18 great, thanks pjb Neronus 15:54:40 it always produces a list; don't think it's special 15:56:33 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.143] has joined #lisp 15:57:14 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:57:50 i just haven't seen ,@ kind of expressions outside macro definitions so much, so I thought maybe there is a reason other that those being extremely needed in macros 15:58:15 kenanb: lisp is quite orthogonal, since every form is an expression, and you can put expressions anywhere you can put expressions (that is, in a lot of places). 15:58:28 :) 15:58:29 -!- ainm [~ainm@115.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ainm] 15:58:52 i think people tend to separate them just habitually .. i don't often find myself needing complicated substitution outside macros 15:58:53 kenanb: backquote is quite useful in macros since it allows you to describe a "template" list. But you can use it elsewhere, to generate code or data. 16:00:09 I sometimes use it to create plists from structs for html-template, i.e., `(foo ,(f-foo x) bar ,(f-bar x)) 16:00:16 pjb: this is one of those moments one says "dammit, why didn' t I ask this before" 16:00:18 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@adsl-71-146-151-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:40 so many silly list manipulations that could easily be handled with these sugar syntax 16:01:03 (let (x (s 0)) (dolist (e (setf x `(1 ,(+ 1 1) ,(+ 1 1 1))) s) (print (incf s e)))) => 6 16:01:12 kenanb: list construction, yes. 16:01:29 But sometimes it's also clearer to use list, list*, append, concatenate, etc. 16:04:31 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:02 pjb: I already try to use the normal versions where possible, but this code I am trying to write will really be much clearer with some suhar 16:05:05 sugar* 16:05:37 -!- rlb3`` [~user@204.62.13.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:56 One place where backquote is useful is to build "literal" lists containing functions. '(#'sin #'cos) doesn't contain functions. `(,#'sin ,#'cos) does. 16:07:05 mcstar [~chatzilla@adsl-89-134-25-21.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:09:51 pjb: ooh, that looks like a useful one to try to remember. :) 16:09:58 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 16:11:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.82.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:37 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:13:51 -!- mcstar [~chatzilla@adsl-89-134-25-21.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:52 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:14:11 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 16:19:38 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-188328.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:20:23 Guest32898 [~arm@190.108.236.64] has joined #lisp 16:21:52 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-318646.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:22:22 Kron__ 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[gkeith@nat/google/x-tjqcdwmmmgpgeroy] has joined #lisp 16:50:14 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 16:51:02 -!- hrs [~textual@ip-128-239-135-42.v4.wm.edu] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 16:52:05 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:52:09 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:51 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:52:58 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has joined #lisp 16:55:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.143] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:56:24 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:57:24 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:57:56 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:39 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.143] has joined #lisp 17:01:34 mel0on [1000@h-70-73.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:03:09 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has joined #lisp 17:03:40 dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:05:05 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:15 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:12:41 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.200.233] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:13:48 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:34 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:14:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@69.212.124.44] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:15:01 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:15:30 Hi, I'm trying to use cl-gtk2-gtk from quicklisp but I don't understand why the following code fails. http://paste.lisp.org/display/128671 17:16:00 by fail, I mean the application freeze and I've to restart SBCL to destroy the window. 17:16:57 it happens when I push the button, when gtk:gtk-main-quit is called. 17:16:58 -!- icrazyhack [horieyui@115.173.253.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:47 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-tjqcdwmmmgpgeroy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:52 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0937.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:28 daimrod: if you look at the examples they use leave-gtk-main, which is also what my code seems to use 17:20:32 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Quit: ugh] 17:22:01 i guess gtk:gtk-main-quit terminates a thread or something 17:22:03 icrazyhack [~horieyui@115.173.253.176] has joined #lisp 17:22:14 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:25 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:24:18 achiu [~arthurchi@216.174.109.254] has joined #lisp 17:25:10 tensorpudding_ [~michael@108.87.21.241] has joined #lisp 17:26:19 -!- dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:00 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 17:27:16 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 17:27:19 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:28:11 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.124.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:29:42 ferada: ah, I didn't look at the examples includes with the system, only those on the website, thanks. 17:32:05 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-120-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:34:41 is there a common lisp Elnode/node.js like project? 17:35:18 or am I confused? 17:35:56 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:19 there is 17:36:28 but it's kind of in its infancy :) 17:36:41 and only supports tcp and http 17:37:46 sykopomp: are you referring to hinge or something else? 17:37:56 I've never heard about hinge! 17:38:00 Hinge is new. :) 17:38:09 link! 17:38:11 https://github.com/sshirokov/hinge 17:38:24 sykopomp: what were you talking about 17:38:31 haha 17:38:46 https://github.com/sykopomp/conserv 17:39:28 Nice. 17:39:32 I like my echo server better. :) 17:40:06 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@115.173.253.176] has quit [Quit: http://www.cnblogs.com/crazyhack] 17:40:23 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 17:40:37 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 17:41:26 madnificent did some benchmarks on the http server, and it was doing about 22k reqs/s on a single thread. 17:43:27 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399152.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:43:59 Ah sweet. libev bindings. I'd been looking to drop iolib. 17:44:24 what make libev better? 17:44:30 sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:44:52 not sure. I was going to try both and see which one I liked more. 17:45:39 I'm still using the iolib in quicklisp, and I'm not really interested in dealing with libfixposix. I'm using a pretty small subset of iolib, too. 17:46:13 I actually kinda like libfixposix 17:46:38 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-401015.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:23 I was hoping to have something that was relatively easy to quickload. libfixposix isn't something I can rely on having available in a package manager. 17:47:27 maybe i'm just being nitpicky. 17:47:50 I also kinda wonder if libev would be faster/lighterweight than iolib, or provide better cross-platform support. 17:48:15 sykopomp: maybe if we could add some way for iolib to build local libfixposix... 17:48:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.143] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:48:44 p_l: is it not possible? I thought that's what postmodern/clsql/other things did. 17:48:46 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:49:04 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:08 I just figured libfixposix must've had some dark magic of its own that prevented that from being possible. 17:49:10 sykopomp: yeah, but maybe make it a weebit more sophisticated 17:49:21 I think it's mainly that for now it's *separate* 17:49:39 postmodern doesn't have any c code 17:50:01 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 17:50:02 the other question is why there isn't a more recent iolib in quicklisp. 17:50:08 stassats: I must've been thinking of clsql then. 17:50:37 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399152.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:50:58 I am using the iolib release tarball. 17:51:40 are there plans for another release? 17:53:39 ask fe[nl]ix 17:54:58 kilon_alios [~kilon@ppp-94-64-178-94.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:55:21 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:51 -!- rgrau [~user@245.Red-79-158-51.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:29 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:58 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.120] has joined #lisp 17:59:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.120] has quit [Changing host] 17:59:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:00:44 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:26 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:47 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:44 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:05:36 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-318632.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:06:23 SaidinWoT [~sfrazier@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 18:07:55 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@ppp-94-64-178-94.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:08:05 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:09:02 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:39 rwiker [~rwiker@233.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:29 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:34 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A13E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:43 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-318632.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:14 francogrex [~user@109.130.107.153] has joined #lisp 18:12:59 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:15:19 there are 2500 downloads of sbcl-1.0.55-x86-windows-binary.msi for windows I'm impressed, it's even higher than linux binary doanlowds 18:15:47 *francogrex* would never download the windows binary, he always builds from src 18:16:09 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402191.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:16:15 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has joined #lisp 18:16:35 did you build it with clisp initially? 18:17:17 i don't have a c compiler on my windows, so i did download, but the forked one with threads 18:17:47 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 18:18:24 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:31 stassats: do you like the forked one? I didn't really like it's feel... I initially built with ecl I think I don't remeber well 18:18:41 snearch [~snearch@g225149226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:46 i don't really use windows 18:19:02 chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 but you know the stats on sourceforge mean something, windows users like using sbcl 18:20:36 dkasak [dkasak@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #lisp 18:20:44 2500 isn't a very big number 18:21:05 Sold at $1000 each, that's 2.5 million dollars. 18:21:12 Not bad. 18:21:23 I know not by itself, but compared to others: http://sourceforge.net/projects/sbcl/files/sbcl/1.0.55/ 18:21:29 why stop there? sold at 1 million each, it's like 100 million 18:21:56 Xach: because at $1000 you'd be cheaper than Lispworks, but at $1e6 you'd be more expensive. 18:22:18 ok, ok, but at 1 million, you only need to sell one or two 18:22:33 what do these stats tell? i've never download sources, i use VCS 18:22:52 some linux distros have SBCL 18:23:07 and there are generally much more people who use windows 18:25:04 I'd guess that most of the people who are interested in SBCL do not use windows? but that might be wrong. 18:25:44 dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:25:47 interested as in interested developing it? 18:26:23 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:38 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:26:42 interested as in interested - I was actually thinking of ssbcl users, and not sbcl developers 18:27:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:35 ? but the same probably holds for sbcl developers 18:28:26 most of developers, yes, but i don't know how you can tell what the users are doing 18:29:25 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-384913.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:30:14 trying to beat the averages, perhaps 18:31:08 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402191.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:17 well, one way to do that would be not to use windows; another might be to use sbcl on windows :-) 18:31:33 lispworks is too expensive 18:31:49 here's a dime 18:32:33 francogrex: there's a version that you can get for 18:32:40 £0. 18:33:02 I know but it's not the sexy one 18:33:36 the other has the app delivery, the shaker and all the bling bling 18:33:40 for "serious" use, the professional version is a better use of money than the perosnal (free) version 18:34:50 also, LW isn't all that pricy 18:35:00 at least for commercial use 18:35:06 ainm [~ainm@115.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:12 agree with that 18:35:18 how do you use money fr the free version? 18:35:29 what is ssbcl? 18:35:30 corman lisp is more or less evaporated, right? 18:35:53 JuanDaugherty: a typo 18:35:53 evaporated? It's just not active 18:35:54 kenanb: unfortunately 18:35:55 you don't, but you get much less value for the free money than the profession version (imho) 18:35:58 ah 18:36:26 for 0 cost, you get infinite value 18:37:09 typo for what? 18:37:10 that depends on how you do the mathematics? functionality / price is just one option 18:37:23 rwiker: 18:37:25 (sbcl can't be contrasted with itself) 18:37:27 rwiker: Agreed. 18:37:32 stassats: you don't 18:38:11 JuanDaugherty: typo for sbcl, gee 18:38:22 you have 1000 $ you use the free version, you develop shit, sell nothing meanwhile you eat, drink, crap, your 1000 has become 5 18:39:04 while for the pro version you use your 1000 $ fast for a few days while developing apps, you sell those by the end of the weak for 50000 $ 18:39:09 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 18:39:10 why not just spent 1000$ on hookers and booze and forget about developing anything? 18:39:10 francogrex: but you live! 18:39:15 :) 18:39:17 better value all around 18:39:18 one good reason for the non-free version is that you develop stuff that you sell 18:39:40 On the ohter hand, you buy Lisp works, you are $200 in debt, you can't eat or drink anything, you've got the bailiffs at your door, you can't program, your house is foreclosed, you become a bum. 18:39:57 So you put up a sign on the road: "Will program for food". 18:39:58 francogrex: so, how much money did you earn on selling applications written in Lispworks? 18:40:02 one other good reason for the non-free version is that you develop stuff that you cannot sell, but you have a lot of fun developing free stuff, or just stuff for your own use 18:40:07 but a happy bum, maybe you'll find happiness at last 18:40:25 stassats: 0. That's why i'm starving 18:40:43 francogrex: if you can salvage solar panels, and laptop. But this kind of hardware needs replacement every few years. 18:41:06 *Xach* thinks of REMaas 18:41:55 I don't think REM has caught up with laptops or solar panels, yet 18:42:15 didn't they disband? 18:42:49 hmmm? I had the feeling that that abbreviation could be misinterpreted? now I know why :-) 18:43:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:43:31 i still have no idea what REM are you talking about? 18:43:32 CL:REM? 18:43:48 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 18:43:52 Greetings lispers 18:45:03 wow, I totally blacked out the possibility of non-developer users of sbcl 18:45:35 Developer of SBCL or just developer of software? 18:46:46 stassats: Robert E. Maas 18:47:59 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:50 stassats: someone with way more problems than solutions, including those related to money 18:50:16 ThomasH in comment b4 your entry: "I was actually thinking of ssbcl users, and not sbcl developers" 18:51:02 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-384913.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:51:10 do you actually think that I meant that sbcl users are not developers? 18:52:05 no, it's just natural language, the economy thereof, the sbcl users are typically developers, but not necessarily developers of sbcl itself 18:52:29 which I missed when I was bug eyed on ssbcl 18:53:01 right :-) economical language, which means that you can get misunderstandings at a fair price, too :-) 18:53:30 because of the way the convo was going, at first I thought ssbcl was a priced fork of sbcl 18:53:37 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:55:08 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.107.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:09 it would've been named $sbcl 18:55:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.245.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:25 or $sbcl 18:55:28 $bcl 18:55:31 $bcl 18:55:33 yeah 18:55:34 i was thinking "supported sbcl" 18:55:45 vanilla sbcl is supported 18:56:07 you can catch an sbcl developer and bribe him with money 18:57:13 I think there are one or two people who have made a little money that way 18:57:13 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:47 "a little" may not be the exact figure 18:58:00 I <3 quicklisp. That is all. :D 18:58:38 davlaps [~davlaps@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:38 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:58 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-321105.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:00:24 If you like Quicklisp, you'll love Quicklisp Platinum 19:00:35 only $2300/year 19:00:44 I'll wait for Quicklisp Iridium. 19:00:52 lol 19:01:01 I'm waiting for the Quicklisp after Mithril 19:01:03 :D 19:01:09 hagish_ [~hagish@p5DCBF608.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:11 -!- hagish [~hagish@pD9FBED8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:01:12 Xach: new subscription platforms? 19:01:20 Going for the enterprise 19:03:06 -!- ainm [~ainm@115.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:03:13 ainm [~ainm@115.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:14 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:54 -!- megamind [~Nevermind@123.16.104.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:57 dammit, my ego was in a much better situation when this code was unreadable and long 19:07:21 Enterprise Quicklisp, aka EQL 19:08:19 maybe QPX, Quicklisp Par eXcellence? 19:08:22 does that mean I have to retrain myself from doing ql:quickload to eql:quickload? 19:08:53 stassats: i like that even more 19:09:15 rwiker: a nickname compatibility module is only $300 19:09:21 (defun ql:quickload (&rest stuff) (apply #'eql:quickload stuff)) ? :) 19:09:33 that'll void your warranty 19:09:53 "no user serviceable parts inside"? 19:10:17 the files will be in ebdic 19:10:22 anyway... I'm sure it could be better, but the fact that I just got opengl running with very little pain from inside slime makes me happy. 19:13:02 reminds me that I need to scavenge someones SDL code 19:13:32 what do you need? 19:13:50 sykopomp: a friend of mine did some games with lispbuilder-sdl 19:14:17 I have a prospective work on a linux "media center" application (think windows' MCE) 19:14:18 yay 19:14:42 and there's no real constraint on language 19:15:29 oooh. Maybe you could get proper ffmpeg bindings working :3 19:15:38 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sickle] 19:16:17 sykopomp: nah 19:16:24 I'm dumping all that on MPlayer 19:16:30 aw 19:16:55 what would the CL side end up doing? 19:17:02 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:23 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:17:33 sykopomp: the UI 19:17:34 rwiker: hey, old-timer 19:18:29 not sure how I should take that :-) 19:18:57 ? I'm still younger than Lisp 19:18:58 is lisppaste messy or what 19:19:22 it does (setf *features* (remove "SB-THREAD" *features* :test #'string-equal)) 19:19:29 there are many gems 19:21:07 well, I was wool-gathering when my unkind interviewer pointed out that I'd been doing sbcl commits for a decade now 19:21:32 aha :-) 19:21:33 and asking me about those mythical creatures who were around when I started 19:22:13 Did you storm out of the interview shouting, "They're not a myth!"? 19:22:29 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:00 "you mean, you actually spoke to Dan Barlow!?" 19:23:12 *gasp* 19:23:36 another person who's accumulated a wife and child since hacking on Lisp. Clearly, SBCL implementation work improves your marriageability 19:23:43 No so much speak, as just sit there and observe him in meditation. 19:24:11 watch him use IRC as single-player notepad 19:24:39 tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has joined #lisp 19:24:59 -!- hagish_ [~hagish@p5DCBF608.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28:07 is Dan Barlow still doing Lisp-related work? 19:28:42 Ruby pays his bills -- and he's got a seven-week old baby, so I think he's somewhat not doing anything 19:28:48 not even skating 19:29:32 Kids will do that. 19:29:54 *ThomasH* has 4 kids, one is 3 months old. 19:30:19 is aserve (franz web server) often used? from its doc it seems cool 19:30:50 dim: I don't think so, at least not outside ACL-based projects 19:30:59 well, not anymore would be a better term 19:31:03 what is prefered then? 19:31:09 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:23 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:31:23 dim: many people use hunchentoot 19:31:50 some projects have their own servers. Antiweb is quite cool but might have incompatible license for you 19:31:55 is it "nice" to use for just publishing some internal application state, monitoring and live setup? 19:31:59 and mongrel2 is pretty sweet 19:32:06 dim: I think so 19:32:44 I'm using hunchentoot for some relatively heavy work; works great 19:34:45 Kryztof: I've seen danb lurking on the clojure mailing lists of late 19:34:51 ah yes Antiweb is GPL, hunchentoot is BSD, cool 19:35:00 is conserve just a poc at this point? 19:35:05 Kryztof: with respect to IRC as a notepad, I presume the channel was being logged? That's a pretty good idea. You could probably do the same with Twitter. 19:35:44 a bit like doing backups by mailing files to yourself :-) 19:36:18 There are two public logs of #lisp. 19:36:52 pjb: Yes, but I was thinking more along the lines of some little private IRC room that you logged yourself. 19:37:12 erc does it. 19:37:31 rcirc too :) 19:37:44 mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:48 having a chat channel for chatting to yourself sounds a bit? unusual :-9 19:38:19 Not if you have several computers. 19:38:21 rwiker: It's not "talking to yourself", it's "thining aloud". ;-) 19:38:28 *thinking* 19:39:42 zbigniew [~zb@ipv6.3e8.org] has joined #lisp 19:40:40 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C6B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:01 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:42:29 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:31 Twitter has some interesting possibilities. I like how it can be used for remote commands. You could interact with a lisp image using cl-twitter. 19:45:04 irc too. 19:45:51 ThomasH: I don't know if it was being logged 19:46:14 actually it was to paste bits of assembler between his two computers, back when he was trying to get sbcl to work on alpha 19:46:53 The infinite forms of IPC. 19:47:27 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:31 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:47:31 zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@92-249-192-115.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 19:47:34 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.142] has joined #lisp 19:48:30 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:30 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:48:30 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 19:48:43 ThomasH: Does cl-twitter work? I thought it only supported pre-oauth interaction. 19:49:03 sellout: I found a github repo where someone had cleaned it up. 19:49:09 Just now. 19:49:18 ThomasH: Cool  link me? 19:49:45 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:45 http://github.com/fons/cl-twitter 19:49:59 sellout: The CLiki page is up-to-date. 19:50:06 Ah 19:50:25 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.119.30] has joined #lisp 19:53:15 -!- zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@92-249-192-115.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:53:46 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:56:57 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-66-219.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:57:02 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-66-219.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:57:08 minion: what's up? 19:57:08 not much 19:57:38 phew, finally managed to load it 19:57:47 minion: is that a problem? 19:57:47 maybe 19:58:04 clhs list 19:58:04 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for list. 19:58:38 that sounds? wrong. 19:58:39 I don't think specbot even tried. 19:58:45 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-208-68.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:58:53 Interesting 19:58:56 maybe it's the wrong specbot? 19:59:05 could it be the one for Ada? 19:59:17 ada has no clhs 19:59:39 right? but the clhs should have something about list :-) 19:59:56 well, i didn't copy it 20:00:21 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-208-156.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:00 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 20:01:50 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-66-219.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:50 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-66-219.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:21 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-66-219.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:02:26 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-66-219.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 20:03:26 clhs cons 20:03:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_cons.htm 20:04:17 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:18 yay 20:04:31 clhs ~A 20:04:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cda.htm 20:04:47 not yay yet, i have to make it Sanely Loadable, and then fix all the issues 20:04:53 clhs boa constructor 20:05:03 --- had to be tried :-) 20:05:10 yay specbot 20:05:27 sellout: pull request for you, btw 20:05:42 but, being able to load this pile of hacks is a start 20:05:55 no wonder no one wanted to do anything with it 20:06:35 Ralith: I saw :) I haven't really looked at it yet, but re: with-*, why not just use llvm:with-objects (or at least use that in the macros)? 20:06:41 minion: please tell me about PCL 20:06:42 stassats: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:08:08 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:51 sellout: as I mentioned before, I'm kind of averse to coopting CLOS just to associate something with a symbol. 20:10:58 if nothing else, it pollutes slime's arglists 20:13:13 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:14:32 ykf3 [~user@114.205.86.94] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 Ralith: Yeah, I think I'm sold on getting rid of the make-instance stuff. How does it pollute slime's arglists? 20:16:08 minion: chant 20:16:09 MORE CODE 20:16:17 *dlowe* cheers 20:16:18 stassats: you heard him. 20:16:27 I *like* minion 20:16:33 i'd opt out for less code, but more sane code 20:16:49 where's the fun in that? 20:16:50 maybe some day you can explain how minion's chant works. 20:16:59 sellout: I'm not sure *how*, but the class-specific prompts for make-instance in CCL get spammed until you type a valid class designator, and iirc in SBCL even then they stay there, obscuring useful initarg reminders. 20:17:05 more explaining to come! 20:17:09 minion: chant 20:17:09 MORE EXPLAINING 20:17:13 easy 20:17:39 minion: beer 20:17:40 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``beer''. 20:17:44 bah. 20:18:02 sellout: you should be able to reproduce easily; open up slime, load llvm, put the cursor in (make-instance) and look at the minibuffer. 20:18:02 Ralith: Ah, I just hadn't noticed that. 20:18:15 Ralith: When using make-instance in slime, am I to understand that it will hint the class specific initargs? 20:18:22 yep. 20:18:26 it's very handy. 20:18:35 Ralith: Very nice. 20:19:04 yay, minion 20:19:14 but apparently it doesn't handle eql-specialized initialize-instance methods very well. 20:19:14 Ralith: just make-instance? 20:19:20 -!- jollyG [~JollyG@KennPAT.uncc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:19:25 minion: yay 20:19:26 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``yay''. 20:19:30 I'll have to use Krystof for a while 20:19:48 er, make-instance 20:19:56 minion: are you a bot? 20:19:56 stassats: that's the one that I've noticed. 20:19:57 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 20:20:10 Ralith: just (make-instance) shouldn't show much of arglists 20:20:26 unless you're doing something totally fishy 20:20:27 stassats: it shouldn't, but it does if there's eql-specialized make-instance methods. 20:20:48 I don't *think* there's any more going on than that. 20:21:31 Ralith: Yeah, crazy. Well, like I said, I'm sold on getting rid of the make-instance stuff. 20:21:49 Ralith: indeed! 20:21:53 lindes [~user@p4FF1C6B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:59 *stassats* goes to fix this 20:22:05 \o/ 20:22:19 didn't know you had commit on slime 20:22:35 sellout: not sure what the best way to replace it while maintaining the same interface is, though. 20:23:09 my usual modus operandi for this sort of thing is to have a global alist or hash table that definition macros add to 20:23:26 and do lookup directly into that 20:24:02 If you've gotten cl-twitter working, I'd love to read about how you did it. 20:24:17 not sure if that's actually a very clean thing to do, though. 20:24:43 of course, could just hardcode the lookup 20:24:48 it's nice to have more bots around 20:24:49 that's already done for the deconstruction, after all. 20:24:52 minion: chant 20:24:52 MORE BOTS 20:25:00 destruction? deallocation? 20:25:07 Xach: Have you look at the version on github? I didn't actually try it, but it looks like it's been cleaned up a bit. 20:25:27 ThomasH: I want to read about a foolproof way, not puzzle it out on my own :) 20:25:54 Ralith: gah, it's not slime's fault 20:25:58 Xach: We rely on you for that. 20:25:59 (sb-introspect:function-lambda-list 'make-instance) does that 20:26:08 but no worries! i have a SBCL commit-bit as well 20:26:20 although, this is actually right 20:26:55 also, sbcl is frozen 20:26:55 I guess that explains why on SBCL it clobbers the intelligent prompts in general 20:27:08 -!- benny [~benny@i577A838B.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.38.72] has left #lisp 20:27:50 the generic function accepts all keywords the methods accept 20:28:10 so this is a correct result 20:29:13 but, i think slime may be smarter about it by removing not specific keywords when having (make-instance 'foo) 20:29:55 although it will be hard do decide which are not specific to the said method if it uses &rest 20:30:34 clhs 7.6.4 20:30:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_fd.htm 20:31:32 sellout: alright, I think I can switch this over to a hardcoded statick lookup much like the deallocation bit, and have things be no less functional and clean. Shall I? 20:31:47 er 20:31:47 static 20:32:09 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:32:25 maybe slime can sort and highlight differently the keywords defined by the method and keywords defined by the GF 20:32:35 Ralith: Sure :) 20:32:36 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:38 cleaner, eventhat macro's more dynamic than it needs to be 20:33:27 clearly, there are many options, but i'm not going to implement either of them right now 20:33:56 if it's feasible to detect which methods of the genfun might run given the first arg, perhaps only the keywords of those might be displayed? 20:34:26 sellout: do you remember why dispose-module is commented out? 20:34:42 slime doesn't do that in general, only for make-instance and friends 20:34:44 I vaguely recall it might have been segfaulting some time ago, but with-module has been working fine for me. 20:35:02 -!- Sgeo_ [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:08 benny` [~benny@i577A838B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:12 stassats: right, but if it can be done even just there, I imagine it would be an effective solution. 20:35:45 i said above some limitations of this 20:35:47 Ralith: Yeah, I was running into segfaults. But possibly that is no longer the case. 20:36:59 stassats: ah, I skimmed past that by accident. 20:37:13 young_soul [~user@78.90.30.8] has joined #lisp 20:37:18 sellout: do you recall how reproducible they were? 20:38:04 Ralith: I think it was pretty much 100% of the time. 20:38:23 okay, then on 3.1svn at the very least it's not happening any more. 20:38:25 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:25 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38:43 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:34 nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:11 hmm does minion have globbing? 20:45:24 what? 20:45:42 I remember a calc script from old efnet #warez was very useful for looking up stuff stored with globbing 20:45:57 ie calc newb.setup = blah blah blah lisp started pack blah blah 20:46:00 and obt remembers it 20:46:08 i don't think it does 20:46:13 then it responds to it when someone does "calc newb.setup" 20:46:34 minion: what does SBCL mean? 20:46:34 Subacid Baptismally Common Lisp 20:46:49 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:55 but the coolest thing was you could do calc *newb* and it would repond with Matches: newb.setup newb.recommended.books newb.windows etc 20:46:59 minion is back \o/ 20:47:07 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:47:56 it's not on full duty so far 20:48:18 in fact that thing was still running on efnet #warez as of around 2 years ago, containing priceless database of calced stuff from 1996 to present day.. Lots of those actually made it to bash.org 20:49:09 stassats: you are the man! 20:49:59 i run it locally right now, so it may die as my dsl connection dies 20:50:12 stassats: anyway, my point is if you going to be doing coding to add features to the bots, IMHO globbing query, would improve quality of noob help on the channel, and as database is build-up, it will grow into cool resource 20:50:20 -!- benny` is now known as benny 20:50:58 minion is not for noobs, it's for olds to automate handling of noobs 20:52:19 Because, let's be honest, minion will demonstrate greater manners with a noob than an old would. 20:52:37 not really 20:53:30 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-235-210.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:35 -!- dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has left #lisp 20:55:08 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-231-220.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:14 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:07:14 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:07:59 #git has a bot which gives a short "how to get help on IRC" when someone joins and says just "hi" 21:08:14 -!- ainm [~ainm@115.Red-83-61-38.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ainm] 21:08:37 hah 21:09:35 I think it's a nice solution to the problem of "hi can someone help me" "sure, please actually write your question and also don't fixate on me as the answerer" 21:11:04 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:16:40 sellout: pull request appended 21:16:49 lemme know what you think 21:17:10 bonus points: no longer necessary to specify llvm: for the type designator 21:17:48 Ralith: Thanks. 21:19:16 np ^^ 21:19:57 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:10 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sickle] 21:20:14 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:20:14 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:24 *Ralith* really enjoys how win-win upstreaming a worthwhile patch is 21:20:56 more win if you are the upstream 21:21:53 I'm just happy to not have to worry about maintaining and distributing a patched version. 21:27:18 #emacs has a nice fsbot in elisp using erc 21:27:27 I guess that would be good inspiration for minion 21:27:33 minion: what do you think? 21:27:33 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:27:34 i can't divulge what i think 21:27:43 right, right 21:27:46 gn :) 21:27:50 minion is self-inspired 21:29:33 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 21:30:21 minion finds minion very inspiring. 21:32:29 paul0` [~user@177.41.243.226] has joined #lisp 21:33:29 minion: do you like yourself? 21:33:29 here i am, brain the size of a planet, and all i do is answer your silly questions all day... maybe you have time to like myself 21:33:53 -!- paul0 [~user@177.41.243.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34:53 *maxm-* tries to imagine what would happen if it was cleverbot like algo 21:35:12 aperture [~aperture@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 21:39:37 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225149226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:40:51 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@233.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:47 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44:17 |tca| [~tca@a79-168-253-128.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:44:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-38.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:46:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-185.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:47:14 -!- |tca| [~tca@a79-168-253-128.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:22 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-229-9.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47:43 tca [~tca@a79-168-253-128.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:47:51 -!- paul0` [~user@177.41.243.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:42 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host187-229-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:53:38 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:54:03 -!- optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:29 daniel___ [~daniel@p50829D37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:38 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082927C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:23 what was again the way of turning on all fp traps in sbcl? I get a quiet nan with the default settings. I am having no luck with google. 21:59:54 sb-int:with-float-traps-masked 22:00:37 with (:underflow :overflow :inexact :invalid :divide-by-zero :denormalized-operand) 22:02:26 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:35 doesn't that turn them *off*? 22:02:51 it does 22:03:32 I think prxq wanted to know how to turn them on. 22:03:39 stassats: That helped me find (sb-int:set-floating-point-modes :traps '(:invalid :divide-by-zero :overflow)) 22:03:48 which yes, is what I wanted. So thanks 22:03:54 Ralith: prxq is smart! 22:04:00 yay ^^ 22:06:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:07:24 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:09:05 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 22:13:18 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:10 Froward [~uh-oh@64.134.69.248] has joined #lisp 22:14:38 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:14 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:23 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:07 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 22:21:07 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 22:21:24 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:43 -!- tca [~tca@a79-168-253-128.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:48 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:49 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:23:49 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:26:00 ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:30 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128674 22:30:35 i want parse keywords to get every string in [...] as a keyword, string after that as the value, and list them as (:keyword "value" :keyword "value" ...) 22:31:04 why do you have a macro there? 22:31:35 if the keyword is already parsed once, the value should be concatenated, if the keyword is [more], it should be concatenated to last saved keyword 22:32:27 and, what is your question? 22:32:32 stassats: because I realized I do use that snippet inside the function to many times 22:32:53 kenanb: yes, and why did you chose to define it as a macro? 22:33:33 stassats: because i don't know how to define a setf function yet :) 22:33:57 kenanb: it might be better to use a macrolet in those cases. 22:34:24 pjb: but i use the same in one other function also 22:34:27 You see, as a general, macro, (concat-key (aref keys (incf i)) "data") won't do what you think. 22:34:40 Then you should write it correctly ;-) 22:35:11 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:36:10 pjb: but it should do the job in this function, right? or does it seem to be the reason I get wrong results? 22:36:29 As long as you don't call it with a generalized place that has side effects, yes. 22:37:20 if you look at the results, it somehow automatically concatenates the whole thing wrong, it creates a test keyword, and places the value, then it concatenates testlab's value to test 22:37:41 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-192-196.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:44 automatically is the wrong term there :) 22:37:48 pardon me 22:39:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 22:40:36 i mean, when the KEY is :testlab, in the second iteration, (equal key :more) should return nil, so I don't see why it concatenates :testlab to the value ot :test 22:42:00 you didn't provide the whole code 22:42:36 doing so, just a second 22:43:25 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128674#1 22:44:05 i excluded the one page boring class definition not to make things more cluttered, it seems extremely irrevelant 22:44:17 but I can paste it too, if needed 22:46:36 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C6B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:47:08 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:48:33 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:50:46 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:50:48 because you're using AND instead of for 22:51:41 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-qepltmzfinbkxctw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:29 stassats: yes, thank you, it works now! 22:54:52 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:57:04 brown [user@nat/google/x-ejuzrukemmrangxg] has joined #lisp 22:57:30 -!- brown is now known as Guest12648 22:57:34 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 22:57:36 -!- Guest12648 is now known as reb 22:58:10 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:02:54 -!- ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:03:00 ainm [~ainm@56.Red-83-33-83.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:24 Sometimes, you just have to back away from the REPL. I've made more progress today by leaving my desk for an hour or two and doing something else. I end up solving the problem in my head and coming back and cranking it out quickly. 23:04:51 ThomasH: That's good advice :) 23:05:28 kenanb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128674#2 23:05:38 Yeah, I often solve the problems while I'm dreaming, then I wake up and win! 23:06:50 ThomasH: yeah it can be good to be forced to figure out where a problem must be or where you should most look by not actually touching the code.. focus you on understanding instead of random testing 23:08:05 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:11:20 stassats: dammit this works :D 23:11:28 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:11:34 now the only problem is to understand how :) 23:11:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:54 -!- Vutral [vutral@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:12:07 i suggest you to read it line by line 23:12:36 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-113.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:22 another variation would be to use unless (member key '(:block :endblock)) 23:15:36 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:07 mirTapir [vutral@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #lisp 23:18:02 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:05 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:16 stassats: i couldn't understand this part: " for key = key-raw then .." and what you did with format there 23:18:32 you couldn't and now you can? 23:18:37 -!- achiu [~arthurchi@216.174.109.254] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 23:18:47 stassats: nope, still can't 23:19:49 it binds KEY to either current key or to LAST-KEY in case current KEY is :MORE 23:20:21 and format prepends a string unless it's NIL 23:20:25 stassats: but why the "= key-raw" part 23:20:52 there's no last-key the first time it's run 23:20:56 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:21:49 well, if the first key can't be :MORE, then it can be omitted 23:22:21 it can't, unless the file is malformed 23:23:12 but still, there is always the possiblity that the file is malformed :) 23:23:22 then just remove `key-raw then' 23:23:48 urandom__ [~user@p548A3B13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:55 Wouldn't block/endblock translate to sublists? 23:24:15 and you can add (assert (not (eq key :more))), if you want to 23:25:20 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 23:25:45 pjb: it probably would, but it is incredibly hard to find the true behaviour of blocks and since the block/endblock syntax is excluded in the last revision of the standard (2002) i just chose to omit it 23:26:07 ok 23:26:12 rather, you need to leave `key-raw then' if you want to add the assertion 23:27:36 stassats: i think if the photometry lab put a more keyword in the first line of file, it is better to error and not be able to read their file :) 23:28:10 stassats: this version of parse-keywords is 100x better than mine, thanks :) 23:28:14 well, you can add more checks 23:28:22 kenanb: of course it is! i wrote it 23:29:15 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-127-161.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 23:32:37 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-127-161.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:35:49 -!- new [new@subtlepath.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:37:34 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 23:47:42 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-46.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:23 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-321105.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:27 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 23:53:41 so an editor just inputs, outputs, and writes, right? 23:53:54 Right. 23:54:05 Just like any other program. They all just input, output and write. 23:54:13 (well some programs also read). 23:54:13 also read 23:54:18 ah 23:54:46 pjb: But an editor does it in a considerably simpler way, though, right? 23:54:49 though read=input and write=output 23:55:02 You put in text, and then you write from the buffer to the file 23:55:12 a _text_ editor does that 23:55:15 Aethaeryn: You're not making any sense. 23:55:19 an editor drinks coffee and makes something reasonable out of your gibberish 23:55:22 represents the contents of a file in a text buffer, with save/load 23:55:45 My point is: a basic editor (that no one would use) doesn't seem to be much work. 23:55:48 Aethaeryn: have a look at: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/sedit/index.html 23:55:48 but things like a vector graphics editor has a lot more presentation & manipulation 23:56:03 Aethaeryn: an editor can be really simple, indeed. 23:56:21 You can write an ed in a few lines. 23:56:47 See https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/ed/ed.lisp 23:56:52 $ wc -l *.c *.h | tail -n 1 23:56:55 3207 total 23:56:59 Actually, the regexp library might be bigger than ed 23:57:00 ed seems to take a lot of C 23:57:05 At least, GNU ed 23:57:28 Aethaeryn -> http://www.finseth.com/craft/ 23:57:46 Anything takes a lot of C. 23:58:02 A program that would take ten lines in perl or lisp could take 10000 lines in C. 23:58:46 Or one line of dangerous bash that no one could comprehend ;-) 23:58:55 Aethaeryn: already: (* 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19) would takes hundreds of lines in C. 23:59:15 (ie. you'd have to fetch the gmp library). 23:59:18 Aethaeryn: if you're using a GUI lib, throwing the contents of a file into a text area is the easiest way to do it; let the environment's tools just do their thing 23:59:33 The answer is 121645100408832000 for anyone who was curious. :-P 23:59:54 Phoodus: That already is not a basic editor