00:00:54 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.104.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:02:22 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:22 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:02:23 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:02:49 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:03:14 -!- ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ainm] 00:05:32 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:30 someone remind me how do i catch all exceptions? 00:07:43 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 00:08:04 by not making them in the first place 00:09:08 sezo: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node317.html 00:09:41 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:15 thanks 00:12:40 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 00:13:27 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.140.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:18:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A5F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:21:31 sezo: (handler-case form (t (condition) (do-something-with condition))) 00:21:39 sezo: there's no exception in CL, only conditions. 00:22:12 But in general, you don't want to handle them all: this could break your implementation. Just handle errors and your own conditions. 00:23:04 -!- josvuk [~josef@p549D01D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:23:54 it's just a difference in name no? conditions are exceptions 00:24:01 -!- mrzackbot [~zack@dyn-jj-146-210.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 00:25:01 sezo: conditions are a superset of exceptions 00:25:43 they signal events which might not be errors 00:26:09 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:27:39 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:55 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 00:28:07 See CL:SIGNAL. 00:28:29 sezo: conditions don't necessarily unwind the stack; they are handled at the point where they're signaled, and the handler may unwind the stack to the point needed, return an alternate value, etc. 00:33:19 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:39 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:39 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:33:39 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:37:15 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:28 josvuk [~josef@p549D01D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:38:36 -!- josvuk [~josef@p549D01D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:39:19 - 00:39:40 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:40:16 meloin [1000@h-70-73.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 00:43:14 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:31 isismelting [~jo@ip72-197-244-33.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:05 i'm using comm package to download a website, but i can only get root pages, that is, if i try domain.com, i get its index. but if i try domain.com/specificpage. then i get nothing - could anyone point me in the right direction? 00:46:39 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:47:05 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sickle] 00:47:34 isismelting: I use drakma. It works very well. 00:49:28 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.140.101] has joined #lisp 00:49:38 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:50 paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-159.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:25 pkhuong: thank you...i saw that - i'm trying to battle this information-stealing website & noticed their list of emails can be found at /subscribe_thankyou/anumber where anumber is anything between 1 & some 14000 -- it's the response page for successful signup -- could i use drakma to write a script to collect all the email addresses? 00:51:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:35 (if i collect all of them & mass mail them i figure we have a chance of shutting the unethical company down with a group attack) 00:51:44 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:52:10 isismelting: try it and report back. 00:52:34 pkhuong: will do, sincere thanks for the tip 00:52:52 *madnificent* doesn't feel 100% ok with it. but would ensure to set a reasonable browser name and check if his requests aren't bounced if he asked too many. 00:54:48 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:48 -!- StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:53 StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has joined #lisp 00:55:17 Is it possible to create a hash table describing it like you can create a vector? For example, #(1 2 3) instead of (vector 1 2 3). 00:55:20 madnificent: it's an ethical grey area i've been forced into, i don't feel 100% ok with it either. but the place is using a convincing fake foodstamp signup to sell information to predatory lenders. plus they won't stop selling my mum's information to the next company. i don't know what else to do. 00:55:37 didi: with the right reader macro, yes. 00:55:55 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 00:56:02 *didi* . o O ( OK, reader macro... ) 00:57:46 madnificent: is there a way to use something like tor with lisp? (i know this isn't exactly white hat but, well, come on etc.) 00:58:34 isismelting: drakma works with HTTP (or SOCKS, I believe) proxies. 00:58:35 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:59:00 didi: (defmacro hash (&rest key-value-pairs) ...) might just be good enough for you. 00:59:24 didi: there's no built-in way, but it's possible to add it to CL using read macros, as pjb says. Read macros are code that changes how CL reads the source code, a very advanced topic. 00:59:41 # is a reader macro. so is ' 01:00:06 as* 01:00:24 ok, thank you kindly everyone. 01:00:51 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:01:16 -!- StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:23 oic. Thank you guys. I think I'll accept pkhuong suggestion and keep it simple for now. 01:01:35 wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:01:36 Yeah, simple is good :) 01:02:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:15 anything else that's a reader macro in standard CL besides # and ' ? 01:03:56 ` (backquote), #C (complex), #P (pathname) #A (array) ... off the top of my head :) 01:04:11 aren't ( and ) just reader macros too? 01:04:14 didi: of course, it'd also be possible to write a function filling and returning a hash table, which is given a list of items to add 01:05:18 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 01:07:39 For anyone who's really curious, here's a list of the "#" read macros, from CLtL: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/html/cltl/clm/node191.html 01:07:45 phadthai: True. 01:08:42 what is diff between when and if. 01:08:59 when has no else form 01:09:08 tnx 01:09:35 when has an implicit progn for the then branch. 01:09:37 with an implicit progn 01:09:39 (when (..) (form1) (form2)) is the same as (if (..) (progn (form1 (form2))) ... 01:09:59 heh 01:10:25 do you always use when if you dont have else form 01:10:42 is that good practice? 01:11:05 sezo: I would say yes, (almost) always 01:13:46 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:52 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:14:05 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 01:14:17 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:14:18 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 01:15:14 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:18 sezo: everything's a reader macro but numbers and symbols! 01:15:27 what do you recommend for beginners to use sbcl or clisp ? 01:15:39 jasox: I recommend clisp. 01:15:58 or ccl, or sbcl or ecl, or abcl, or 01:16:15 heh 01:16:26 i was going to say heh 01:16:32 heh 01:16:32 but probably not cmucl 01:16:41 Yes, cmucl too. 01:17:02 jasox: You'll get many different answers to that question, depending who you ask. And apparently many different answers from a single person, sometimes. :) 01:17:15 is it any more convenient to build than it was like.. how old is 17 now 01:17:40 oGMo: I don't think so. The convenient to build cmucl is sbcl. 01:17:47 pjb: yeah 01:18:05 pjb: of course i guess you don't have to "keep up on releases" so much ;) 01:18:14 jasox: What operating system do you use? (Windows, Mac, Linux, ...?) 01:18:30 Debian - gnu/linux 01:18:54 It looks like sbcl is faster than clisp 01:18:56 :/ 01:19:13 When I type: allhosts clall '(some form)' # I get answers from 27 different implementations on different systems :-) 01:19:23 in LispWorks how do you know/change your home directory 01:19:33 jasox: wrong. sbcl is much slower to compile code than clisp. 01:19:37 jasox: I think the most common answer for GNU/Linux would be SBCL. But either one should work fine. 01:19:51 jasox: have a look at http://cliki.net/Performance 01:20:10 jasox sbcl compiles to machine code, clisp to byte code 01:21:00 And ix86 machine code is much more complex to compile to than clisp virtual machine code. 01:21:22 i don't think he's talking about compilation speed 01:21:24 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:53 If you're a beginner, honestly, the differences between sbcl and clisp probably aren't going to matter, except that clisp might (I hear) be easier to set up on Windows. Which doesn't matter in this case :) 01:22:07 sezo: then, some benchmark might be in order, because nowadays clisp has a JITC. 01:23:29 It looks like clisp is made by jews :D 01:23:38 Wrong again. 01:23:42 KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.40.54] has joined #lisp 01:23:50 It was made by non-jew Germans. 01:24:09 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128179182.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:09 oh kk 01:24:24 -!- ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:24:40 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:24 anyone know why CCL's default external format isn't :utf-8? 01:25:39 also, is setfing that in ~/.ccl-init.lisp a good solution? 01:26:18 It's good enough. 01:26:53 jasox: Here's an explanation about the menorah, if you are curious: http://clisp.sourceforge.net/impnotes/faq.html#faq-menorah-why 01:27:12 Ralith: http://paste.lisp.org/+2R9C 01:27:14 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 01:28:09 jacius, thanks 01:28:17 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:28:52 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:23 pjb: thanks! 01:30:43 much more involved than I expected, though admittedly most of that looks to be locale autodetection. 01:30:48 Aha. Sneaky #(). You don't evaluate your elements. 01:30:49 -!- pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:02 didi: Very sneaky :D 01:31:09 :^) 01:31:25 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:25 from a hebrew speaker 01:31:32 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 01:31:36  isnt just a religious object 01:31:41 (mnorah) 01:31:53 it also means just a normal light like a lamp 01:32:08 didi: cl:vector is a function. 01:32:34 -!- pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:10 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:23 pkhuong: Good idea. 01:34:10 -!- pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:34 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:50 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 01:35:00 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:05 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:36:15 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-159.lpa.idec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:08 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 01:37:52 Hi! 01:38:09 Hi, ASau`! 01:38:16 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@c-98-216-97-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:17 Does anyone know how I can turn this redefinition warnings in CLISP? 01:38:48 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:49 "WARNING: DEFUN/DEFMACRO: redefining function FUN in ..." 01:39:21 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:40:38 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:42:35 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@c-98-216-97-19.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:45:48 Hm. 01:45:54 ASau`: Sorry, I dunno. 01:46:12 I see custom:*suppress-check-redefinition*, but it suppresses all checks. 01:46:24 Not exactly what I wanted, still anything... 01:48:26 Are you trying to get rid of the warning coming from inside your code, or just while you're doing stuff at the REPL? 01:49:18 It is not my code, but I suspect that CLISP misreports warnings and errors, 01:49:35 and thus confuses DSL compiler. 01:49:48 I'm checking that. 01:52:04 Ah, okay. I ask, because if it's happening because of function redefinitions inside some code, you could perhaps add (fmakunbound 'fun) before the new definition. 01:55:48 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@74.125.63.65] has joined #lisp 01:56:00 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:00 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 01:56:17 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 01:57:07 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:00:00 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 02:02:32 #:alexandria has become a standard part of my :USE list. 02:03:22 sellout: do you also include it into your local :CL replacement? :) 02:04:05 p_l: Hrmm. I haven't yet  02:05:36 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128395 <--- I used something like that in one project :) 02:06:01 c2cl being :CL augmented by closer-mop 02:11:04 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120314211133]] 02:14:36 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:43 davlaps [~davlaps@adsl-76-215-232-14.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:49 -!- two- [~textual@67.23.193.215] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:22:27 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 02:23:09 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:46 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 02:32:28 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:04 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:38:09 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 02:39:59 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-202-56.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 02:44:55 p_l, conduits? 02:45:07 Any inspiration from Haskell conduits, or a separate thing entirely 02:45:22 separate 02:48:00 What was the rationale that went into designating something a type versus a system class? 02:48:20 ThomasH: I suspect history 02:50:02 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@adsl-76-215-232-14.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:50:02 ThomasH: classes are more restrictive, because we have to allow dispatch on them. 02:50:53 If I understand section 4 of the hyperspec, classes are types. 02:51:22 classes are types, but types aren't necessarily classes. 02:51:31 CLOS dispatches on classes, not types. 02:52:18 pkhuong: Yes, I found that out early on the hard way. SBCL would dispatch just fine on double-float, but when I ran the code in other implementations, it failed. 02:52:46 I'm just curious about what motivated the distinction. 02:52:56 ThomasH: Ouch. I'll have to watch out for that one. 02:54:23 ThomasH: like I said, classes are more restrictive. Making something a class may rule out interesting design choices, or, as p_l points out, pre-existing designs. 02:54:27 drysdam_ [~dr@pool-71-161-87-184.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:20 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 02:55:37 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:42 This question came up because I always check, now, whether something is a system class or type. I checked keyword, which is a type. It is a subtype of symbol, which is a system class. That made me wonder what the rationale was. 02:55:50 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 02:57:08 ThomasH: class dispatch on keyword might have been considered too slow. That, or some implementation was already doing the equivalent of (deftype keyword () '(satisfies keywordp)). 02:57:17 -!- drysdam [~dr@pool-71-161-90-94.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:58:02 gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 02:58:11 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:51 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@cpe-024-074-197-085.ec.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: night] 02:58:55 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@74.125.63.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:00:54 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0FAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:01:53 Thomas: CLOS was bolted on afterward. 03:02:12 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-202-56.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:31 Thomas: One of the most egrerious cases is fixnum/bignum vs. integer. 03:02:54 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 03:03:21 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:04:03 Also note, that symbol is both a class and a type. 03:04:16 (Because each class has a corresonding type). 03:05:04 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sickle] 03:05:18 I notice a couple #lispers played with pratt-style (top-down operator precedence) parsers ~3 years ago. Any feedback or conclusion from the experience? 03:05:25 Ah, gotta love CL. So many wonderful easter eggs to find. :) 03:08:31 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 03:15:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:16:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gpizqzdzzbyhhjkp] has joined #lisp 03:26:08 psilord [~psilord@c-24-118-208-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:20 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-24-118-208-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:34:31 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:36:52 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:40:01 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 03:40:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:43 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:46 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.40.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:41:32 KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.40.54] has joined #lisp 03:42:47 Ralith 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05:35:10 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:23 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 05:38:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: reboot] 05:40:01 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:40:46 Hi all. 05:41:22 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@adsl-76-215-232-14.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:41:32 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-232-13.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:41:44 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 05:42:19 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-123-65.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:58 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:45:49 I just want to ask. Is it mistake in cltl2ed here: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node134.html. Paragraph "The value of least-negative-normalized-short-float....". Maybe last sentence must end with "....as the value of least-negative-short-float."? 05:46:17 Mistake with respect to what? 05:46:25 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has joined #lisp 05:47:16 jjkola_worik [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 05:48:08 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48:59 Zhivago: I mean "least-positive-short-float" in paragraph should be least-negative-short-float, because there is speaking about least-negative-normalized-short-float. 05:49:23 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:49:36 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 05:50:24 You mean the one that ends with: "In implementations that do not support denormalized numbers this may be the same as the value of least-positive-short-float."? 05:52:08 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:53:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:54:20 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:42 Zhivago: Yes, there are two same sentences. And, I think, the last one is copypasted from first one. But the last should contain least-negative-short-float. 05:55:08 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 05:55:44 Ah. Probably. 05:55:55 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:56:10 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 05:57:09 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:57:52 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@220.227.122.149] has joined #lisp 05:58:19 -!- jjkola_worik is now known as jjkola_work 05:59:10 asvil`` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 05:59:56 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:00:45 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:25 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:04:56 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 06:05:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:05:35 -!- asvil`` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:06:05 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:06:14 hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:10:03 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:12:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:12:47 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has joined #lisp 06:15:16 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 06:17:51 Harag [~phil@196.215.161.139] has joined #lisp 06:18:21 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:18:46 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 06:19:58 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:21:24 [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has joined #lisp 06:24:26 asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:24:53 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:25:01 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:29:39 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:53 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:54 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:29:54 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 06:32:18 gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has joined #lisp 06:33:48 -!- howeyc [~howeyc@2607:f2f8:a958::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:34:47 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@110.144.233.54] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:37:27 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 06:38:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:38:40 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:46 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38:59 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:00 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-210-198.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:39:00 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 06:39:40 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:40:24 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:46:18 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-135-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:07 superflit_ [~superflit@71-218-200-111.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:17 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:47:28 <[6502]> are there lisp dialects out there where there is no cons cell and where arrays are used to represent lists? 06:47:58 -!- Guest94268 [name@89.180.168.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:42 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 06:48:50 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:29 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:50:29 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 06:50:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:52:17 ...that would be ... horrible 06:52:27 someone probably tried to do so 06:52:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:54 it would be kind of hard to implement structure sharing 06:54:33 <[6502]> p_l: hehehe... i did indeed. I was wondering if someone else did. 06:55:27 <[6502]> mal: what you lose is just tail sharing, sharing can still be done at subtrees level. For example in my jslisp toy quasiquoting is not guaranteed to return a fresh tree... 06:56:18 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 06:58:24 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:58:35 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:58:40 6502: You don't actually lose tail sharing. 06:59:35 The important point is recursive deconstruction, which can be done using arrays, if you're sufficiently enthusiastic. 07:00:07 <[6502]> Zhivago: i'm not sure I understand your point... 07:00:07 Think about an implementation that yielded a displaced array as the result of a cdr. 07:00:23 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:00:24 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 07:00:35 Now you could recursively compose the array, which would make it suitable for s-expressions. 07:01:12 <[6502]> Zhivago: yeah... but that's not how javascript arrays are implemented, and even if tail or section sharing is not possible arrays are perfectly ok for s-expressions... 07:01:30 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:01:59 <[6502]> Zhivago: I used javascript arrays because that's what my "hardware" provides, and they're a perfect fit. Exactly like IBM 704 words were a perfect fit for cons cells. 07:02:04 Well, it's how javascript strings are generally implemented, because it makes 'a' + b cheap. 07:03:26 <[6502]> Zhivago: not sure about this is how strings are implemented but surely they could be implemented that way 07:04:30 <[6502]> Zhivago: note that even cons cells guys ended up thinking to cdr-coded lists for efficiency 07:04:53 blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 07:06:00 <[6502]> I'll leave "most if not all other lisp dialects" in the no CAR/CDR page, hope no one feels offended 07:06:18 -!- BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:07:11 BigHugeDog [~QQ@221.0.13.125] has joined #lisp 07:07:23 <[6502]> office time... l8r 07:07:29 -!- [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:11:22 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:12:56 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:07 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:15:00 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 07:16:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-120.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: my head] 07:17:02 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-109-40.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:18:28 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.160.64] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:21:46 Dildeaux [~Dilberto@ip72-207-16-214.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:54 The Trayvon Martin affair is an injustice! 07:21:56 I am so mad! 07:22:01 That is why I am venting over at 07:22:05 chimpout 07:22:06 .com 07:22:09 /forum 07:22:17 George Zimmerman deserves a medal! 07:22:55 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:23:02 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 07:23:14 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@78.157.103.6] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:23:29 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*Dilberto@*.sd.sd.cox.net 07:23:29 -!- Dildeaux [~pl@089-101-208053.ntlworld.ie] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Dildeaux) 07:23:59 now to relearn the ban interface... 07:25:04 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:26:07 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:27:25 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 07:28:41 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 07:30:05 frugalfirbolg [~Joseph@cpe-75-180-54-117.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:20 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-jwaazxfipoqiduna] has joined #lisp 07:39:02 pon1980 [~pon1980@h66n6-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:39:38 -!- pon1980 [~pon1980@h66n6-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has left #lisp 07:42:17 howeyc [~howeyc@2607:f2f8:a958::2] has joined #lisp 07:47:16 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:51:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-129-198.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:28 jpjacobs [~jpjacobs@pec.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be] has joined #lisp 07:52:54 Hi! I recently discovered Lisp and I really like it! 07:53:45 jpjacobs: \o/ 07:53:54 But I was wondering, I'm looking at some really bad ass data processing tasks (like images 1000x1000x200 (last one spectral bands)) 07:53:56 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has joined #lisp 07:54:01 is Lisp up to this? 07:55:15 Because now I'm using matlab, but I'm looking for alternatives 07:55:27 jpjacobs: it can be used for that, yes 07:55:37 ok, nice 07:55:39 it might take some time to be proficient to do so *well* 07:55:46 but it's a general purpose language 07:55:53 I can imagine :) 07:56:22 and with such data, you start to really feel differences in implementations (things like differring garbage collectors, etc.) 07:56:30 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:57:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:00:01 for some implementations, 1000x1000x200 is bigger than array-total-size-limit 08:00:51 I'm not sure I'd load that into memory at once anyway 08:01:09 maybe with mmap 08:01:16 it's not that big. 08:01:18 in numerics, that's a small array nowadays :) 08:02:37 the ANSI spec magnanimously guarantees that total-array-size-limit is at least 1024 :) 08:03:17 :) 08:03:48 yeah, not that big. I think I had seen some extra zeroes there :) 08:04:16 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:05:13 well, of course it's going to need some operations on that kind of matrices, not only loading them in memory ;) 08:06:39 antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has joined #lisp 08:07:51 -!- wbooze_ [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: qicr for android: faster and better] 08:08:01 jp: Generally, for 'bad ass' processing, you want operations upon streams. 08:08:11 ``bad ass'' 08:08:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:34 Otherwise known as 'naughty donkey'. 08:08:57 :) I'll keep it in mind, thanks 08:09:12 that's brilliant. 08:09:22 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 08:10:42 there's a 'bad ass' cafe in dublin, with exactly that for logo :D 08:11:47 'you want operations upon streams'? 08:11:48 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 08:11:50 Sbidicuda [~antani@host249-171-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:12:07 Zhivago: no, naughty donkey ;) 08:12:31 Pity. 08:12:32 there *is* water nearby, but it's a river afaik 08:13:20 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:13:44 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:15:01 jpjacobs: as for matrix operations, I think there was some intrinsics for SSE in SBCL, which could help. Some scientific libraries (GSLL?) as well 08:16:43 I found something neat on lisppaste: http://paste.lisp.org/display/87221 08:17:05 reminds me of whoever was asking about gesture recognition the other day, even though this isn't. 08:17:59 it'd be handy if lisppaste had a button to download the paste contents as a file. 08:19:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/87221/raw 08:19:57 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:20:12 you can have a M-x wget quite easily in emacs too 08:21:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128202,1/raw 08:21:15 oh, right. 08:21:47 *Sgeo_* notes the asdf1 stuff 08:21:51 so open a new file, M-x wget the raw url, C-x C-s, done ;) 08:21:52 the lisppaste UI is so familiar, I'm blind to it. ;) 08:22:00 hehe 08:22:31 dim, what's with the comma? 08:22:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22:53 I guess that would be the annotation number separator 08:24:47 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:18 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.14.209] has joined #lisp 08:29:54 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA09A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:37 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:31:43 What do you think of this notation? http://paste.lisp.org/+2R9E 08:32:57 Neronus: the "defun" seems redundant 08:33:00 Can I use cffi to make c++ class methods calls? 08:33:15 Neronus: i think edi did not get it completely wrong with easy-handlers 08:35:14 H4ns: The defun is there because I envision that you can also write (route "bla" 'sansibar), where 'sansibar is the symbol-name of a function 08:35:26 s/symbol-name/name/ 08:35:55 Why the defun then? 08:36:09 Why not just have route take a function argument, and use #'some-function or lambda? 08:36:25 Although I'm not used to CL, so not sure if that's a good idea, especially if route is a macro 08:36:32 why not use restas? 08:36:38 restas? 08:37:01 Sgeo_: http://restas.lisper.ru/en/ 08:37:02 Sgeo_: You can use (defun ...) inside it, since defun returns the symbol of the function it just defined 08:37:28 Neronus: too much redundancy in my eyes. the argument name is repeated, too. 08:37:45 Because restas is based on hunchentoot and I like my fastcgi playground 08:37:46 H4ns: That's true 08:39:02 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:39:07 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:39:08 Neronus: just saying: if you made your fastcgi playground use the same handler and route declaration as, say, restas, you might attract people who want to use both or switch. 08:39:43 -!- blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:40:32 Neronus: i'm not saying that i like how restas interns part of strings to use them as symbols. i'd rather use something in the likes of ("/foo/" bar) to declare a route beginning with "/foo/" and binding bar to the argument. 08:40:46 Is Common Lisp metaprogramming faster than Ruby metaprogramming? I'm thinking mostly in terms of CL macros do stuff at macroexpand time whereas Ruby does stuff at runtime (I may be mischaracterizing Ruby, I'm not a Ruby expert) 08:40:49 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:41:03 Neronus: ("/foo/" (bar :type integer)) would be how it would be extended. 08:41:28 Sgeo_: ruby metaprogramming is basically dispatch on "method not found" 08:41:39 Sgeo_: so it cannot be fast. 08:41:46 How about ("foo" (bar :type integer)) and having the slashes inserted by the algorithm 08:41:58 I like restas:genurl 08:42:20 Neronus: the slashes give some kind of a visual clue, so i'd leave them in 08:42:26 But I also like to have my routes as functions, so that I can actually test them without a running web-server 08:42:58 Neronus: there is nothing wrong with giving them names. that is what easy-handlers do right, i think. 08:43:00 NeedMoreDesu: calling C++ is perilous. You need to make an extern "C" wrapper, or ensure there are no exceptions and then we can start talking about how GCC encodes vtable 08:43:17 restas has routing as a fairly separate module (i think) 08:43:36 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA09A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:44:37 p_l: then it is "calling g++ class methods", not "calling c++ class methods" 08:45:03 p_l: i'm just agreeing with you more :) 08:45:54 wbooze [~wbooze@h-188-63.a189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 08:47:03 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 08:48:50 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@h-188-63.a189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:14 kay, thanks, I see where it goes. I think I should read more about extern C and C/C++ before asking something again. 08:51:20 NeedMoreDesu: I had waking nightmare related to the question you just asked. After I had already figured everything except exceptions (pun intended) 08:52:17 jdz: g++ implements IA-64 C++ ABI, and so do compilers that claim they work with G++ 08:52:30 (the ABI got translated into other architectures) 08:52:49 i've stopped caring about C++ a long time ago 08:52:54 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 08:53:09 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53:15 Mh, CL-Routes lacks documentation 08:53:59 Neronus: so will your library :) 08:54:03 alvis`` [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:56:04 -!- alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:56:46 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:56:47 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:57:28 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:29 H4ns: I doubt it. If you have a look at my github you will see mostly documented code. I'm a big fan of documenting functions :) 08:57:37 TimKack [~user@c-2ec233af-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:58:11 Neronus: ok. no offense intended 08:59:10 H4ns: I was not offended 09:00:32 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:59 Mh.. difficult decisions. 09:01:57 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:03:40 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:04:07 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:06:13 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-196-253.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:06:26 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:06:34 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host249-171-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:11:12 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host249-171-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:13:56 Hm, I think my googling level is quite bad. I see only one example of C++ method in C, but he made it like another cpp function which creates c++ object locally in it. 09:13:56 09:13:56 09:13:56 09:13:59 09:14:03 09:14:10 'oops 09:15:22 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:44 NeedMoreDesu: basically, you end up generating C wrappers. Swig can automate that to certain level, but it's not infallible 09:15:49 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 09:16:22 You might also figure out how to get Smoke to generate wrapper for your clas, then load it with commonqt 09:16:37 s/clas/library/ 09:17:56 how about this, then? http://paste.lisp.org/display/128642 09:19:04 well, this: http://paste.lisp.org/+2R9E/1 09:23:33 p_l: swig can generate C wrapper from C++, right? 09:23:36 It gets rid of the redundant defun and variables, anyway 09:24:03 Neronus: that looks better. i'm wondering about the slash in the end of "/new/" (intentional?). i'm not particularly partial to macros who infer the meaning of arguments by their type, but that is just my opinion. 09:26:02 As Xach said time is short. Where do I publish my funlib? commonlisp.net? 09:26:13 H4ns: The slash is a mistake. When parsing a request, then /post/foo/new would not match this 09:26:40 NeedMoreDesu: and create CFFI definitions 09:27:03 NeedMoreDesu: read carefully through the docs and generated code though 09:27:22 Younder: i don't know. i can help you with a common-lisp.net project if you need that, though. 09:27:32 H4ns: I did not understand what you meant by "macros who infer the meaning of arguments by their type". Or rather, I do understand. but if I want to do route-matching, then I will have to at least distinguish symbols from everything else, won't I? 09:27:57 Younder: github and make an entry in cliki 09:27:57 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:58 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:07 p_l: Does it required to have source that way? I.e., not libraries. 09:28:14 Ah common-lisp.net and you git gotcha. 09:28:33 Neronus: yes - for the route destructuring itself, i don't have any objections. it is more that you seem to infer that the :post is a http method at macroexpansion time, which is what i meant. 09:29:10 metabang-bind is good 09:30:04 Neronus: in common lisp, there is a tradition of having one point in the macro's signature that takes options and use plists for that. but that convention has been broken by popular libraries, and i can see how not using plists is more concise. 09:30:34 H4ns: I intended to infer it from its position before the route. But I also think that the macro should check that these parameters are members of '(:post :put ...) 09:30:54 -!- jpjacobs [~jpjacobs@pec.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.be] has left #lisp 09:31:11 plists are much underestimated. For less that 100 values there is little to be gained by hashing performance wise. 09:31:12 H4ns: My first suggestion didn't use macros at all, by the way. route would've been a function :) 09:31:17 Neronus: i'd make the signature "name methods route" 09:31:46 Younder: we are talking about compile time and your number is wrong. 09:32:01 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.40.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:12 Younder: 100? 09:32:32 Also works, I guess. But then the default case is ugly 09:32:44 Neronus: ugly how? 09:32:45 could of course be replaced by :all 09:33:03 jdz: hashing is REALLY expensive. There is a k that is the function if the key length. 09:33:12 Neronus: sounds proper. but you can also ignore me, i'm just a traditionalist 09:33:15 (route (:get) "/foo/" 'banana) is not nicer than (route "/foo" 'banana) IMHO 09:33:22 The O(1) is deceptive 09:33:34 H4ns: Well, I like to hear opinions 09:33:48 Neronus: (route :get "/foo/" 'banana) would be what i'd allow 09:33:58 Neronus: i.e. ensure-list the routes 09:34:39 also not bad 09:34:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:44 mhmh 09:35:37 Younder: i was not asking about hahshing performance characteristics, but where'd you get the number "100" 09:35:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-12.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:37:36 NeedMoreDesu: only for generating the wrapper (it requires header files) 09:37:57 and compiling the C wrapper (which gets called by CFFI) 09:38:01 I work a lot with Hunchentoot against a PostgreSql database and plists win every time. Also in successiveness 09:38:11 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 09:38:16 what is successiveness? 09:38:28 elegance 09:41:35 The number of field in a database record means a hash would be a bad idea. A plist is perfect. 09:41:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:42:01 Younder: your records have 100 columns? 09:42:44 Remember symbols are compared with eq this is very fast. 09:42:45 araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has joined #lisp 09:42:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.61.1] has quit [Changing host] 09:42:56 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:43:04 jdz I use < 10. 100 is a bit ambitious 09:43:48 Younder: so where the number 100 is from, then? 09:43:58 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:44:32 there is probably not much of a point building a hash table for a database record if that record is then only accessed one or two times. 09:44:36 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:49 jdz got it off the net. Don't remember where. 09:44:51 but i fail to see how anyone suggested to do that or something in the lines of that. 09:44:57 Younder: "haha" 09:45:33 I am just saying plists are underused. They are elegant and have good lib support. 09:45:48 *H4ns* does not underuse plists. quite to the contrary. 09:45:51 And I am NOT wrong about this 09:45:58 Younder: what makes you think that plists are underused? random page off the nets you don't remember any more? 09:47:19 jdz I just think hash tables are overused for small data sets. I won't do all the metrics for you. I'll leave it wit you. That is if you know math ;) 09:48:01 Younder: who does that? i find hash tables rather clumsy in lisp and tend to underuse them. but maybe i'm just an exception and everyone else overuses them. 09:48:10 Younder: what makes you think what you think? i have not seen such evidence 09:48:19 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:32 Younder: plist / alist? 09:48:53 dim plist.. alist is ugly 09:49:04 sometime I do wonder about that actually :) 09:49:21 and alists are not ugly 09:49:22 I guess it boild down to the value "type" 09:49:47 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:49:48 when using more complex values but still list based, alist are nice 09:50:05 and let us not forget RASSOC! 09:50:30 YES a alists are slightly faster, I just HATE the way it looks 09:50:34 say '((key . (complex value)) (key2 . (whatever else))) 09:50:44 Younder: you're full of shit, you know that? 09:50:54 But if you like it by all means use it. 09:50:55 Younder: how are alists faster than plists? 09:51:06 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 09:51:16 jdz one pointer reference less 09:51:27 loop on it by 'cddr is faster? 09:51:49 Younder: alists have the same number of conses as plists 09:54:33 jdz no they don't. 09:55:18 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:55:48 I'll ask you to think twice WHY a ALIST looks like a ALIST and not a PLIST 09:59:20 Younder: you are wrong again. and this time, there is no lee way. 10:00:21 Younder: here's why: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128644 10:06:31 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 10:06:37 jdz: you counted trees, he counted sexp in top level 10:06:54 he said he was counting conses, not sexp 10:07:05 antgreen [~user@67.110.80.10.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:08 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:15 NeedMoreDesu: did you actually check what the code does? 10:08:24 Count all atoms, no? 10:09:10 -!- Harag [~phil@196.215.161.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:09:37 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/they-called-it-lisp-for-a-reason-list-processing.html contains a cons cell primer worth re reading I guess 10:09:44 i'm speechless 10:10:41 why would anybody make a function named "count-conses" that counts atoms? 10:11:14 NeedMoreDesu: and the function is so simple it's mind boggling how you came to that conclusion 10:11:54 jdz: that's only obvious when you already know what a cons cell is, I think, because your example has as many cons cells as atoms 10:13:19 dim: what is obvious? how is CONSP test in the function not obvious? 10:13:34 (that's the only place where the number can increase) 10:13:51 are you supposing that he both read the *code* (rahter than the examples) and yet missed it? 10:14:17 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14:41 i'm not assuming anything; it just totally escapes me how people come up with crazy stuff on spot 10:15:00 hehe 10:15:08 it would be easier for newcomers if we wouldn't stress that lisp is a list processing language. nor that code is data. my limited experience shows that just saying that the parens indicate a grouping of content works best. 10:15:11 jdz: but thing is not 'consp is 'atomp 10:15:19 Am I wrong? 10:15:26 NeedMoreDesu: which thing? 10:15:38 NeedMoreDesu: and yes, you're wrong 10:16:07 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:16:55 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:17:19 Mm. There is something that not cons and atom both? 10:17:37 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17:49 But yea, I'm wrong about what I said above. 10:18:38 NeedMoreDesu: http://l1sp.org/cl/atom (the function) 10:19:15 NeedMoreDesu: look at the notes section 10:20:00 >It is equivalent to (not cons). 10:20:42 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:07 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:22:00 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 10:24:47 relevant: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3225769957792533@naggum.net.html 10:25:19 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:41 Example code for path matching in the way H4ns suggested http://paste.lisp.org/+2R9E/2 10:27:39 Neronus: there is a magic "/" in the first test which i'd get rid of 10:28:03 Neronus: it confuses me that there are some explicit slashes and some implicit ones. either none or all of them should be explicit, i think. 10:28:34 H4ns: implicit should have been a warning word for me, maybe 10:28:53 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:30:39 H4ns: Do you mean the second test of routes? 10:30:57 Neronus: the one at the bottom of the file 10:32:03 ok. but the first test of that has only explicit slashes, doesn't it? 10:32:33 Btw once I tried (defvar some-hashtable (make-hash-table)) (let ((some-list (list #| lots of defconstants |#))) (mapcar #'(lambda(key value) (setf (gethash key some-hashtable) value)) (mapcar 'eval some-list) some-list)), thing like this killed my lisp with "Heap exausted". What exactly using heap in this code? 10:32:49 Neronus: i'm staring at ("/foo/" post-id action "/") and can't see one between post-id and action 10:33:38 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 10:33:49 Need: Probably keeping everything in memory from both stages. 10:34:27 Staring intently, I can't see one either :) 10:34:30 Younder: github 10:34:38 defconstants use heap too, or it's just my try to keep it in hashtable? 10:34:43 Need: Is there a reason to compute all evals before putting the results into the hash table? 10:35:31 A minimal test case would be easier to diagnose. 10:35:36 There is no reason why I couldn't compute them one-by-one. 10:36:49 Yeah, that's far from optimal, but i'm still qurious what exactly can get my lisp down like that. 10:37:36 H4ns: That of course means, that '(banana "monkey" apple) will never match anything 10:38:37 Neronus: why not? if you'd convert that to "(.*)monkey(.*)" as a regular expression, it would match cherrymonkeydonkey, no? 10:39:19 Need: See if you can paste some code that does it. 10:40:08 because 'banana always matches until it finds a "/". That's what delimits what a variable matches. Makes sense when you are trying to match URL, doesn't it? 10:40:45 Neronus: i understand that, sure. but there is no need to encode that in the url parser if the slashes are not implicit 10:40:59 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-135-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:41:52 H4ns: Mh.. I'll go to lunch and think about it 10:41:55 :) 10:42:41 are you though with John is a idiot bit 10:43:02 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:09 because I am right you know 10:43:17 Younder: To whom do you speak? 10:43:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:43:32 github apparently 10:43:41 Zhivago: it's exactly code I wrote, just more(2.7k, documented) constants inside. I guess I'll try to test that. 10:43:46 I don't think that github is here. 10:43:54 lol 10:44:11 Need: Perhaps a subset of those is sufficient to produce the effect? 10:44:28 funlib needs github 10:45:03 Just like I need Vivaldi 10:45:56 -!- cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:18 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:47:45 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:47:49 sorry if I seem a bit MAD (I am) but i am driven by emotions. At the moment Vivaldi spring. My favorite music and my first love. (from age 2) 10:49:01 lindes [~user@p4FF1C475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:49:48 I do love my music 10:52:47 speaking of music... is this channel newby-friendly? I have some questions in trying to make Common Lisp Music work. :) 10:53:28 lindes: we like answering questions that show some exploratory spirit in the person asking. 10:53:37 Fair enough. :) 10:54:08 So... I downloaded CLM, and got it compiled OK, it seems... and loaded into an SBCL REPL... 10:54:51 and then I was looking at some examples, but they seemed to show creation of new instruments, yet I noticed in the directory structure that CLM came with some ".ins" files, which seemed... well... instrument-like... 10:55:07 so, I tried loading one with... the most intuitive thing I could think of, namely: 10:55:28 (load "stochastic.ins") ; as one example 10:55:47 which then proceeded to give me the following: 10:55:49 ; Writing "/Volumes/extra/save_space/otherware/quicklisp/clm-4/clm_STOCHASTIC.c" 10:55:49 10:55:49 debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR: 10:55:52 Error opening shared object "/Volumes/extra/save_space/otherware/quicklisp/clm-4/clm_STOCHASTIC.so": 10:55:52 dlopen(/Volumes/extra/save_space/otherware/quicklisp/clm-4/clm_STOCHASTIC.so, 10): image not found. 10:55:55 10:56:24 it appears to be trying to compile a C file and load it 10:56:25 so, it created a .c file, but didn't seem to even attempt (that I can see evidence of) compiling it into a .so, before its attempt at loading the latter failed. 10:56:47 lindes: are you o OSX? 10:56:52 So, I guess I'm wondering... yes, this is OSX 10:56:59 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:57:33 lindes: I suspect that it might be confusing CLM a little, possibly also a bug somewhere 10:57:34 wondering how to begin looking for how it might do this. I'm pretty new to CL, and... not sure if I'm going at his (with "load") right, or..... 11:00:00 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:00:32 the docs didn't say anything? 11:00:37 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-135-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:50 Though I do suspect you were on good track, it's just that CLM bitrotted a bit 11:02:23 hmm, so perhaps it's just a problem of insufficient OSX support? OK. The docs... well, I guess I deviated from the docs when deciding to try to load extant instrument definitions. ;) But I can go back and dig some more... let me do that now. 11:06:01 not finding it one way, trying another... ;) 11:07:54 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 11:08:02 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.14.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:06 ahhh! Well, I think I found it... 11:08:50 I found an instrument definition from online somewhere that mentions doing (load (compile-file "...")) -- instead of just (load "...")... and that seems to do the trick! Now, can I use it. ;) 11:09:07 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:38 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:09:48 heh 11:10:43 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.14.209] has joined #lisp 11:10:43 See, I was hoping it was a newbie thing. I did mention being a lisp newbie, right? ;) 11:11:02 lindes: so common lisp music generates synths that are then compiled and executed within a C runtime? 11:11:28 seems so 11:11:36 lindes: you're the first person i meet here who tries to use common lisp music. 11:12:34 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:12:38 Are there other things that would fit better? I heard about it from a friend, who'd played with it years ago... 11:12:56 lindes: i'm just curious - i don't have a suggestion to make. 11:13:06 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 11:13:06 OK. :) 11:13:33 I like the idea of making music with code... and I've been wanting for a while to learn lisp, so... I figure this could be a good project to combine the two. :) 11:13:45 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:13:49 lindes: so you got it running on osx? i'll have to try that, too. 11:14:18 well, I haven't heard any sound yet, but it seems to nominally be loading, at least... 11:15:41 85k of defconstants works fine. It can be mapcar, or hashtables, or both, then. 11:15:45 oh, interesting... another alternative seems to be (clm-load "..."), which indeed generates a .so. 11:15:57 (though with a bunch of STYLE-WARNINGs) 11:16:34 lindes: I suspect clm-load handles all the hooks that need to be called 11:18:24 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:18:40 yeah, that seems sensible... I just didn't know it existed. :) 11:18:59 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gpizqzdzzbyhhjkp] has left #lisp 11:19:55 welcome to the wonderful world of open source. THe only way to be sure is to read the source ;) 11:20:11 no corporate overlords to make sure documentation is written :) 11:21:49 wow, I can make "heap exausted" just with (let ((some-list (list #|lots of defconsts|#))) some-list). 11:22:11 NeedMoreDesu: why do you need to eval all those defconstants in the first place? 11:22:20 NeedMoreDesu: you are doing it wrong, but why? 11:22:28 oooh! Sound! Thanks, indeed, to -- well, a comment, but from -- the source. ;) 11:23:05 lindes: cool! so you downloaded the clm tarball, compiled it with sbcl, fumbled with clm-load a bit and got sound? 11:23:17 H4ns: To have hashtable with value-to-variable. 11:23:34 NeedMoreDesu: and what do you need the defconstants for? 11:23:54 For variables. 11:24:05 Variables sounds bad, right 11:24:29 NeedMoreDesu: i don't understand it at all. you have some constant values that you want to map to a name and back? 11:25:18 I want to have constant and function to get constant name back, yes. 11:25:34 NeedMoreDesu: and what do you need the constant name for? 11:25:43 asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 11:25:56 H4ns: Basically, yeah. :) 11:26:02 Need: Do you have a minimal test case that's pastable yet? 11:26:04 lindes: encouraging. 11:26:06 (documentation constant 'variable) 11:26:38 NeedMoreDesu: are these named constants used in source code? 11:27:08 H4ns: indeed. :) 11:27:25 NeedMoreDesu: why don't you write a macro my-defconstant that puts the backward mapping into a hash table and expands to a defconstant? 11:27:29 H4ns: Do you mean, can it be just value-to-documentation? 11:28:14 H4ns: I though it would really be the solution, yes. 11:28:52 NeedMoreDesu: you can remember the general rule that you're doing it wrong if you try to use eval. 11:29:08 NeedMoreDesu: there are exceptions, but you'll find out what they are later on. 11:29:55 btw, does cl have something like elisp's defadvice? 11:30:07 NeedMoreDesu: some implementations do. 11:30:54 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA09A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:19 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-129-198.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:31:29 NeedMoreDesu: e.g. http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter4.3.html#Advising 11:33:46 ACL also has something like that 11:34:31 -!- antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:34:52 what's the current portable(ish) way to run a program from Lisp? Do people use asdf:run-shell-command or something else? 11:35:52 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:36:10 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA09A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:18 i use #+sbcl(sb-ext:run-p...) #+ccl(ccl:run-program...) 11:37:25 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:28 asdf:run-shell-command is pretty easy, trivial-shell too 11:38:26 thanks! abcl is currently redesigning its run-program thingie wrt control of environment variables, and I wanted to see what people use 11:40:41 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:03 running external programs is not so trivial, for example, some implementations don't support binary i/o 11:43:23 it'd be cool of ABCL did you support this (if it doesn't already) 11:43:30 s/of/if/ 11:43:40 s/you// 11:46:16 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 11:46:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: home] 11:51:50 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has joined #lisp 11:56:18 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-224-146.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:23 CLOS has "advices" too, or at least before/around/after dispatching 11:59:13 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-123-65.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:00:41 It doesn't seem to me like advice is used for the same kinds of things as auxiliary methods 12:01:28 the way I understand things, you're right 12:01:51 but if I was desperate about defadvice I would consider auxiliary methods 12:02:00 or just stick with CCL which seems very nice :) 12:02:05 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 12:04:58 or just don't require advising 12:05:27 advising looks like an after the fact thing... 12:05:45 it seems to be only useful for code you can't modify 12:06:53 you always have monkey patching don't you? 12:07:10 Blkt [~user@82.84.151.15] has joined #lisp 12:07:52 good day everyone 12:08:44 dim: I had to use defadvice in elisp when made kill-ring with ido. 12:09:08 I didn't want to modify .el files, obviously. 12:09:14 yeah I've been using defadvice in elisp too 12:09:19 and monkey patching also 12:10:25 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:30 Posterdati [~tapioca@host165-224-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:11:01 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:13:38 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:13:56 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.14.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:58 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@220.227.122.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:43 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-196-253.uio.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:15 TimKack` [~user@c-2ec2af72-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 12:23:05 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec233af-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23:33 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:27:02 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:11 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 12:34:26 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 12:34:27 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 12:38:00 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:04 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:33 man I knew the picture of Xof on "lisp hackers" interview reminded me of something 12:41:55 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:42:24 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/pufpuf/rhodes.jpg vs http://i.imgur.com/7ertc.jpg 12:42:27 twins :-) 12:43:03 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 12:43:54 wigflip, nice :) 12:44:26 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:35 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:48:36 H4ns: however, the AIFF files generated don't seem to convert well to mp3 with bladeenc. *digs in to try to figure out why.* 12:48:49 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:48:50 paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-159.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:54 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:11 lindes: uh, so the c engine does not directly render to the sound device? 12:50:11 actually, I think it's a problem with bladeenc, maybe... or... well, QuickTime Player plays the AIFF just fine, and says it's a 32-bit file. bladeenc seems to think it's a 16-bit file, though... 12:50:39 lindes: sox might fare better. 12:51:09 pkhuong: cool, thanks, I'll try it. 12:51:26 though I might also want to change CLM's notion of output formats, which does seem possible, per the docs... 12:52:08 right (: 12:53:09 though not terribly well documented, at least in the place I'm looking. ;) 12:53:32 current value of *clm-data-format*: 4. Uhm, ok! ;) 12:54:07 bladeenc. haven't heard that name in liek 10 years. 12:54:25 what can I say, I'm oldschool? ;) 12:56:08 sox did indeed do nicely, thanks pkhuong! 12:58:57 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:32 in case anyone's curious about CLM, here's a little test I did: http://photo.lindes.net/tmp/4-notes.mp3 13:00:16 code for the above was: (with-sound (:channels 2) (loop for i from 1 to 4 do (stereo-flute (- i 1) i (* i 220) 0.55 :flow-envelope '(0 0 25 1 75 1 100 0)))) 13:01:07 Not all of which (in particular the :flow-envelope part) I understand -- that much was taken from an example, verbatim. 13:01:20 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 13:02:46 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:20 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:03:40 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:05:21 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:05:31 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:32 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:05:32 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 13:05:33 flow-envelope ?? 13:05:50 sounds quirky 13:05:53 I'm guessing it creates the warbling effect, but I don't understand its parameters. 13:06:12 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 13:06:34 I'm thinking "flow" as in the flow of the breath on a flute, and "envelope" as some sort of... tweaking that within certain parameters. 13:06:40 Probably just a really bad name! 13:07:10 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:08:12 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:49 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.136.32] has joined #lisp 13:09:21 an envelope usually specifies how something changes with time (volume, or perhaps pitch) 13:09:25 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 13:09:32 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has left #lisp 13:09:56 Yeah, I think it's a great name, it's just using domain-specific lingo. 13:10:07 (which I'm fine with, though new to -- my music theory is pretty weak.) 13:10:34 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:10:36 hey 13:10:39 there's some info on https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/snd/snd/clm.html -- search for envelope. 13:11:09 ainm [~ainm@205.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:15 'domain specific ligo' well I could say the same for cryptography 13:12:06 it exists in all sorts of domains. I suspect "lisp programming" among them. ;) 13:12:35 guys, I did the same way as it's written down here: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/ch24s06.html#id623985 and whenever I do ./myecl I get back Hello World and ecl's prompt or even help message if I do ./myecl --help, how to get rid of that? 13:12:38 *stassats* goes to cons some breakfast 13:12:49 the opinion of Younder is officially irrelevant 13:13:24 zolk3ri: ecl has a QUIT function, right? call it after printing hello world. 13:13:36 Is there a #lisp-specific lingo for that fact, jdz? ;) 13:13:47 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has joined #lisp 13:13:52 okay 13:14:47 jdz thanks. guess funlib is irrelevant too then. 13:14:51 (not that I'm anything but too new here to treat that as fact or fiction, but only a data point that one person says it.) 13:15:03 well, nonsense can be measured in micro-younders 13:15:08 Why give perls to swine after all 13:15:37 That, or there may be an option (in build-program, I expect) to completely replace the function that's called at start up. 13:15:37 lindes: Younder made like at least 5 claims just a while ago, and could not back any of those up. 13:15:52 oy, why do I get the feeling I just stepped in a pile of... po(o?)litics? ;) 13:16:01 jdz List them please 13:16:21 heh I did not realize sox could generate music: play -n synth pl G2 pl B2 pl D3 pl G3 pl D4 pl G4 delay 0 .05 .1 .15 .2 .25 remix - fade 0 5 .1 norm -1 13:16:25 Younder: right after you back them up. please shut up until then. 13:16:26 just tried above, mind blown 13:16:54 *maxm-* gonna make so many cool small sound effects for various trading alarms using that, rather then scavanging /usr/share/sounds 13:17:02 jdz I honestly have NO idea what you are talking about 13:17:29 number of conses in a plist or an alist? 13:17:34 Younder: i think you need to visit a doctor. really. 13:17:37 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA09A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:48 dim: is that a question? 13:17:58 maxm-: neat, you just blew my sample out of the water. ;) 13:18:05 stassats: no, a participation into a discussion I should stay away from, sorry 13:18:29 lindes: well reading your scrollback made me check if I had sox installed (remember using it like 10 years ago) and read its man page :-) 13:18:39 dim: i just thought that was an out of context question 13:18:47 Until you can back up your claim please stop insultting me. I have worked hard last week and produced 200 lines of lisp code I wished to share with you.. But not anymore. screw it 13:18:55 2000 13:19:03 ahh yes, when actually reading produces joy. :) 13:19:18 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 13:19:43 Younder: will you promise to shut up if I back up my claim? or will you forget it the same way you forgot your claims? 13:19:44 lindes: above "synth" line is directly from man page, not something I came up with... But seems cool way to generate effects, its found in "man 7 SOX" on suse 13:20:20 You wan't mycode or not? 13:20:34 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:20:52 jdz: May I humbly request a nicer tone? 13:21:15 jdz You mean like assoc is more efficient than plist.. IT IS 13:21:15 lindes: sure, your sanity has not been threatened today, yet. 13:21:25 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA09A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:40 Younder: ok, please show why. 13:22:02 jdz: as schizophrenic as it may make #lisp seem, /ignore can be useful. 13:22:08 Younder: i'm sure you have a test case handy 13:22:29 A kid like you should never be let close to a assembler 13:22:31 jdz: could you transit your discussion somewhere else? 13:22:32 pkhuong: noted. ;) 13:22:55 stassats: i'll shut up now, thanks 13:23:12 people are arguing about stuff for hours, that can be checked in 10 seconds from REPL by using (time) 13:23:15 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:23:15 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 13:23:15 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:23:40 reminds me of american "space pen" vs russians just use pencil meme 13:23:48 The main difference between plist and alist in the CL standard, is that plist keys should be symbols, while alist keys can be anything (assoc takes :test, plist uses EQ). 13:24:06 Otherwise, the same number of memory accesses are done when searching in a plist and in a alist. 13:24:18 pjb: this topic has been discussed to death on c.l.l 13:24:22 maxm-: for all architectures and all implementations? 13:24:49 jdz: It's worth repeating the conclusions here if that avoids a flame war. 13:25:06 jollyG [~JollyG@KennPAT.uncc.edu] has joined #lisp 13:25:31 pjb: you can write your own accessors to plists 13:25:32 ignore the pissed idiot retard underdog 13:25:41 pjb: conclusion is: don't claim random stuff 13:26:09 is going to ignore anyone using tone like that, soon. 13:26:15 stassats: of course. I'd argue that writing new functionnal abstractions creates a new ADT (even if the same cons structure is used). 13:26:15 assoc is of better efficiency. It just isn't enough to be relevant 13:26:19 oops, that should have been a /me. 13:26:39 lindes: enjoy the silence 13:26:45 will do. :) 13:27:08 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.151.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:27:38 ignore me at you leas-ure. I AM right. 13:27:58 the layout in memory after GC might be different. If it ever matters, it's probably time to use something else anyway. 13:27:59 I don't care about right and wrong as much as I care about civility. 13:27:59 stassats: obviously not, but if someone is concerned about space/speed of plist vs alist, they probably concerned with a single implementation anyway 13:28:14 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 13:28:34 with civility, I can listen to two arguments and make up my own mind. With out it, I'll tune out -- one way or another. 13:28:39 maxm-: if somebody is concerned about their speed, then they're doing it wrong 13:28:48 maxm-: but you don't understand! alists are proved to faster than plists, universally! 13:28:57 or proven 13:29:01 to be 13:29:04 teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has joined #lisp 13:29:27 *p_l* ponders just ignoring some people for now 13:29:35 hey, it's comp.lang.lisp here, about 7 years ago. Lucky us, to have this argument again 13:30:04 Kryztof: didn't SBCL/x86 used to have an assoc VOP or something silly in that vein? 13:30:06 *lindes* does a couple, just to try to re-set myself. 13:30:07 I preferred it when it was Dietz vs Naggum; at least then there was a large amount of expertise 13:30:59 pkhuong: I doubt it; I can't really see us getting round to implementing whatever prefetch magic is theoretically needed 13:31:15 we did rewrite dolist I think to be clever, though 13:31:59 (fetch the next cdr in the chain at the head of the loop body rather than at the tail) 13:32:02 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:57 We'd simply inherited it from CMUCL. 13:33:18 xach or Krystof will you please ban me before I totally loose my temper 13:33:27 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Kryztof 13:33:30 -!- Kryztof has set mode +b *!~john@4.203.34.95.customer.cdi.no 13:33:38 -!- TimKack` [~user@c-2ec2af72-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:33:38 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o Kryztof 13:33:45 ... you sure? 13:33:47 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:52 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-156.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:00 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:43:18 adu [~ajr@64.134.101.211] has joined #lisp 13:43:39 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:01 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-196-253.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:46:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:46:22 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.101.211] has quit [Client Quit] 13:47:21 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:24 adu [~ajr@64.134.101.211] has joined #lisp 13:51:05 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:51:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:58:38 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 H4ns: I've thought about it more. I think I will stick to the convention that (foo "/bar") will bind foo up to the next "/", not to the next "/bar". It's a simple solution that fits the job, and I'm not trying to write a general pattern matching library. Also it runs in O(|path|) 13:59:31 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:59:42 -!- pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:00:06 And I will give out a warning if I see stuff like '("/foo" bar baz), which cannot match anything. Same for '("/foo" bar "baz") ("baz does not start with "/") 14:03:13 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:07:28 -!- frugalfirbolg [~Joseph@cpe-75-180-54-117.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:08:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:08:48 -!- alvis`` [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:08:49 alvis``` [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:20 -!- Kyril [~Kyril@fedora/Kyril] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:11:02 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:13:26 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:13:45 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:21 dekuked [~user@pool-108-49-139-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:48 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:15:49 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.101.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:15:57 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 14:15:58 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-196-253.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 14:16:06 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:01 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17:21 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:53 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 Greetings lispers 14:20:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.136.32] has quit [Quit: reboot] 14:21:12 jpanest [~jpanest@108-166-73-199.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:09 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.136.32] has joined #lisp 14:23:37 is there any chance to block compiler notes like "... will be stack allocated" portably in CL, or in SLIME, or do i have to ask support (acl)? 14:24:37 ferada: I don't think there's anything in the standard. 14:25:31 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:47 Those notes are generally implementation dependent, right? So, I would guess that suprressing them would be as well. 14:25:53 in sbcl it's (declare (sb-ext:muffle-conditions sb-ext:compiler-note)) 14:26:33 hmm, yeah, some of those have conditions associated, but i didn't see one for this (or any docs at all ...) 14:26:36 or, if you're wrapping, (handler-bind ((sb-ext:compiler-note #'muffle-warning)) ...) 14:26:38 k support it is 14:27:21 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:36 i mean honestly: its the most useless condition to warn me that i'm creating a closure -.- "well of course i am, what should i do else" 14:27:53 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:28:24 ferada: Is it a warning or a note? 14:28:58 I try to pay attention to warnings. 14:31:35 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733]] 14:32:06 ferada: you sure it's not "will not be stack allocated" and you've ratcheted up your speed and/or declared the variable as dynamic-extent? 14:32:14 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-1-189.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:33:52 dlowe: it might be a safety-oriented note. "This will be stack-allocated; make sure you're not leaking any reference." 14:34:56 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:35:12 i thought it wouldn't stack-allocate if it couldn't be sure 14:35:24 or else! else what? else we'll emit an note that it can't be stack allocated 14:36:26 nah it just "Closure ... will be stack allocated." but i'll check if i find some declarations 14:36:45 apparently not, it will if it knows how 14:39:10 hmm, OK, question for y'all again... I'm doing (load (compile-file "/path/to/some.lisp")), and that's generating (perhaps this is a CLM-specific thing?) .c, .o, and .so files in the current directory. I'd like them to be created in /path/to/... any hints? some sort of with-pwd function, maybe? 14:39:29 dlowe: ok, a marketing-oriented note then ;) 14:39:46 I'm failing to get love from (sb-posix:chdir), so far as I can tell... 14:40:00 lindes: try setting *default-pathname-defaults* 14:41:22 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 14:41:33 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:42:00 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 14:42:02 pkhuong: i've compiled the file with different DECLAIMs and i get it every time, so i don't think i can influence it with that 14:43:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:45:40 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:47:07 pkhuong: I tried (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* (pathname *my-clm-dir*))) ((load (compile-file ipath)))) (where ipath is a fully-qualified path, and my-clm-dir is the directory name that ipath is in), and it still generates files in my PWD... 14:47:23 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:00 X-Scale` [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 14:49:12 rgrau [~user@245.Red-79-158-51.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:47 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:50:48 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50:52 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:51:37 -!- r_takaishi [~r_takaish@www5072u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:37 -!- herbieB_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:49 herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:56 it's possible this is being done by the load, not the compile-file. Probable, even, I'd say... so it may be CLM-specific... 14:51:57 r_takaishi [~r_takaish@www5072u.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:53:20 looks like it's probably in defins.lisp... digging... 14:54:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.140] has joined #lisp 14:54:30 Style question: Would you use the names row1 and row2 or row-1 and row-2? 14:54:45 row1 and row-2 14:54:55 Dammit 14:55:10 -!- X-Scale` [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:56:07 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:51 sigh. Looks like it spends effort making sure the .so lands where the .c file was generated, but I'm not quite sure how to get it to generate the .c in the correct place. 14:58:52 lindes: Do you have CLM working? 14:59:26 ThomasH: Yes... though it's a little fugly in certain ways, and I'm trying to sort that out. 15:00:02 e.g. where it creates .c files for instruments (and the compiled versions thereof)... also some style warnings that I might get back to at some point. 15:00:15 lindes: Good job. 15:00:26 X-Scale` [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 15:00:47 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 15:00:56 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A1C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27100107.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:01:39 Thanks. :) 15:01:57 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 15:02:23 Hmm, perhaps I'll have to see who (if anyone) is maintaining this, and how to submit patches... though, I'm still a bit early on that. Or, maybe I'll just put it up on github by myself? ;) 15:02:42 what does it use C for? 15:02:52 lindes: Did you get the source off of the CMUCL repository? 15:04:03 I think we may be talking about two different CLMs. (Did I type it right?) -- I mean (and got it from) this: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/clm/ 15:05:16 lindes: Indeed we are. The interesting thing is that both generate C files. What a weird coincidence. 15:08:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:26 ThomasH: ah well. :) Hmm, meanwhile, I wonder if I ought instead to be using this: http://commonmusic.sourceforge.net/ 15:09:28 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:09:59 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:10:45 ahh, no, different things (though I might still want to be using that, *also*): http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/cmdist/2011-January/006268.html 15:10:54 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.137] has joined #lisp 15:11:38 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:11:46 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:56 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:28 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:39 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:18:17 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-165.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:19:25 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 15:20:20 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:39 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:22:49 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:03 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 15:23:28 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:29 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:32:37 lindes: do you use the clm-4.tar.gz file? 15:32:48 gunnar_m [~gunnar_m@tmo-103-182.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:02 I've put CL eval/help bot on #lisp-repl again for those who want to test. (There's no dictionary feature yet. But there will.) 15:35:43 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:54 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-192-196.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:38:16 H4ns: yup, that's what I started with. And haven't really made changes, just... slowly figuring out how to write my code to effectively use it. 15:38:34 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:39:04 lindes: it compiels _very_ quickly and creates the .c file, but fails to find the .dylib even when i use clm-load. did you have that? 15:39:24 I ended up not using clm-load, but instead using (load (compile-file ...)) 15:39:28 (to load the instrument) 15:40:01 You're trying to get it working, I presume, H4ns? 15:40:03 ah, nice. 15:40:11 yeah, seems to work already 15:40:19 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:40:28 cool. :) Got some sound, then? 15:40:47 there seems to be a test.aiff that i'm going to listen to now 15:41:05 *H4ns* starts live, drag and drops 15:41:08 If you've only loaded the intrument, it probably doesn't have much in it... 15:41:20 can it generate 4'33"? 15:41:28 but I figured out this as a vaguely interesting starting point: (with-sound (:channels 2) (loop for i from 1 to 4 do (stereo-flute (- i 1) i (* i 220) 0.55 :flow-envelope '(0 0 10 0.5 25 1 75 1 100 0))) 15:42:01 lindes: in a .ins file? 15:43:25 stassats: I don't see why not... (with-sound (:channels 2) (stereo-flute 0 (+ (* 4 60) 33) 220 0)) ; should do the trick? 15:44:08 i don't have it, so i can't try 15:44:18 uh, that is nice! 15:44:19 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:19 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:44:19 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 15:44:25 it even plays the sound right away 15:44:41 from within slime *drool* 15:45:06 -!- gunnar_m [~gunnar_m@tmo-103-182.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:45:59 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-jwaazxfipoqiduna] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:22 H4ns: yup. It's nice that way, eh? ;) 15:46:32 lindes: very much so 15:46:54 stassats: hmm, no, that seems to make some noise... let's see... 15:48:57 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-onjxwovkuxoqzqur] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.180.140] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:50:12 -!- DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:21 stassats: hmm, I'm having trouble getting it to be as quiet as I'd like. Maybe I'll play with it sometime, when I better understand it. 15:50:33 anyway, I see no reason why in theory it couldn't do so. 15:50:41 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-224-146.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:50:59 H4ns: Should I put this thing (and perhaps some tweaks and/or examples) onto github, you think? 15:51:02 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-238-79.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:40 lindes: i'd at least ask the author. 15:51:56 if the license allows, don't ask anyone 15:52:14 the license allows it. 15:52:41 Include attribution and a link to the original page in the README. 15:52:42 *lindes* might ask the author anyway... there is an e-mail address in here. 15:53:05 I'd rather have the author do it, and then fork if need-be, if the author is on github. 15:53:19 That would be ideal 15:53:22 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:53:38 loks like the author is still active, per mailing list archives in recent months. 15:53:40 looks 15:53:42 -!- 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[~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:51:52 dsabanin [~dsabanin@89.22.161.11] has joined #lisp 16:51:52 -!- clintm_ [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:57 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:54 stereo flute! 16:55:49 lindes [~user@p4FF1C475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:07 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 16:57:36 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:57:58 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:00:17 Kron__ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:00:54 Xach: 17:01:15 MikeD, come and rock the sure shooooooot 17:01:25 man its pretty hilarious how amazon affiliate clickscams caused explosion of super-nerdy tweets with a bimbo profile picture.. Unsuspecting person may think hot girls are suddenly into functional programming 17:01:33 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.32.56] has joined #lisp 17:01:35 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:36 hahaha 17:02:01 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:01 maxm-: when it sounds too good to be true..... well... you know... 17:02:10 I'm amused by the number of young, female, recruites on LinkedIn. 17:02:16 *recruiters* 17:02:31 When it sounds too google to be true? 17:02:38 heh 17:03:17 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:03:41 recruiters trying to market to technical people is almost as funny as large corporations trying to market to kids. "Finally! an egg for my generation!" 17:04:08 brand-new unscratched skateboard, cap turned backwards, etc. 17:04:52 Oh, here at Jones, Ding-Dong, Dewitt, and Fontleroy, we're all 'propeller heads' too!" 17:05:05 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:33 nah 17:05:39 vantage|home [~vantage@178.205-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:05:53 I had contact with former techies as well as techy current recruiters 17:06:29 p_l: actual real programmers/admins that turn recruiter are the *best*. 17:06:40 hands down. 17:06:43 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:07:02 embed ecl in postgresql server anyone? 17:07:11 Tiraspol [Tiraspol3@29.138.26.37.dyn.idknet.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:13 you can be anything you want to be: http://www.dailydot.com/news/victoria-nigar-google-plus/ 17:07:17 they were so good they became recruiters 17:07:38 H4ns: no, but it sounds interesting 17:07:49 *maxm-* catches himself posting offtopic and self-lectures himself in H4ns tone, then goes back to coding 17:07:55 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:08:02 H4ns: So you can embed lisp in SQL queries? (I've never used postgresql) 17:08:21 ThomasH: Stored Procedures in CL 17:08:23 ThomasH: well, or write triggers or server-side functions in cl 17:08:25 ThomasH: you can write callable functions in the target language, usually. 17:08:37 *Xach* has used pl/tcl for that kind of thing in the distant past 17:08:38 dlowe: In my case, the guy was good. Very, very good. one of those rembrandt-with-a-text-editor good, and it made him a bad-ass recruiter. When it came to working on a team as a programmer though...well, he got an F in 'works well with others'. 17:08:54 Xach: _that_ is what i want to avoid. 17:09:55 clintm: nice story. 17:09:57 H4ns: i avoid it mainly by using plpgsql or whatever it's called. 17:10:47 Xach: right. if all fails, i'll do that or use perl. 17:11:11 dlowe: you're missing a 'bro' in there. 17:11:19 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:31 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:11:37 -!- Tiraspol [Tiraspol3@29.138.26.37.dyn.idknet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:11:54 ok, I think that's my cue to shaddap and drink more coffee. 17:13:47 clintm_ [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:59 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 17:14:01 -!- clintm_ is now known as clintm 17:16:57 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:09 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 17:17:26 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:17:31 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17:44 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:00 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:25:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-203-30.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:26:55 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:27:19 chavezgu_ [~chavezgu@131.178.110.113] has joined #lisp 17:27:34 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:27:56 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:28:03 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-137.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:55 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-yfyopgfjcpmlfhey] has joined #lisp 17:29:41 -!- Sgeo_ [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:56 Sgeo_ [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:05 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:31:41 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:32:13 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-215-89.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:34:13 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:34:39 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-163-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:34:48 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 17:35:20 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:37:29 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 17:37:49 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has joined #lisp 17:40:28 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-yfyopgfjcpmlfhey] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:42:31 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:47:58 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:53:31 HaakonKL [~user@ti0004a340-0627.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:53:40 try to ask this question again: is there any library for 2d graphics, like SDL-bindings but more CL-oriented ? 17:54:45 anonus: /join #lispgames 17:55:44 anonus: You can also search CLiki, common-lisp.net, github, and gitorious. 17:59:52 -!- chavezgu_ [~chavezgu@131.178.110.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:01:59 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:02:27 lindes [~user@p4FF1C475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:05 (declare (ignore some-keyword-arg)) is dangerous because you don't get an error if you provide the keyword. Then, confusion sets in as to why it isn't having any effect. If the keyword isn't used, it is probably better to check it and signal an error if it is bound. Ideally, the interface wouldn't need the keyword. 18:04:27 This applies to generic functions and making things congruent. 18:06:51 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-vssmectipevjitqr] has joined #lisp 18:07:13 gigamonkey_ [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:37 anonus: vecto 18:08:38 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:08:39 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 18:08:43 ThomasH: it's useful for API compatibility 18:09:48 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:06 stassats: Right, it's required for generic functions, but instead of ignoring the keyword, I think it is better to test if it is bound and signal an error or warning if the keyword is bound, but should not ever be. 18:10:17 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10:57 it can be safely bound if it's irrelevant 18:12:09 Except that that causes confusion if the person binding it is expecting the keyword to have an effect and it doesn't. The error or warning is feedback to reduce confusion. 18:12:11 young_soul [~user@78.90.30.8] has joined #lisp 18:12:21 then it's not irrelevant 18:12:30 if it's irrelevant, it can be safely ignored 18:13:29 shosti [~user@c-76-24-17-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:43 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:49 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:15:11 *ThomasH* is trying to figure out how to communicate with stassats. 18:15:34 It is not worth trying to explain. 18:16:15 that's right 18:16:32 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0d8b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:36 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:49 (declare (ignore some-keyword-arg)) is the meaning of the arg doesn't affect the semantics, otherwise, just don't include the keyword into the list of accepted keywords 18:16:57 s/is the/if the/ 18:17:03 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-98-81.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:17:33 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-vssmectipevjitqr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:57 I'm referring to a generic functions, where the keyword is required for congruency, but not necessary for a specific method. 18:18:08 hi 18:18:23 Hey prxq 18:18:32 ThomasH: then the generic function is wrong 18:18:43 ThomasH: hi 18:18:48 achiu [~arthurchi@216.174.109.254] has joined #lisp 18:20:42 stassats: Let's say it was right for all the initial cases, but for some unanticipated new case, it is wrong. Until the interface can be factored for the new uses, the keyword is included. 18:21:34 There are many practical reasons for not factoring the interface immediately. 18:22:26 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:22:47 then don't provide any keywords in the GF 18:22:54 in the first place 18:23:01 (i never do) 18:24:49 Just &allow-other-keywords ? 18:25:00 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:26 &allow-other-keys 18:25:26 in the GF? just &key 18:27:32 So it is just &key, I thought I had to include &allow-other-keys. 18:27:53 no, &allow-other-keys would have bad consequences 18:28:00 all methods would accept any kind of keywords 18:28:52 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 18:28:55 without it, it accepts only those specified by all the methods 18:29:33 Then why not include the keywords in the GF if they have to be congruent anyway? 18:29:45 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:29:45 because of what you just said 18:29:57 and they don't have to be congruent 18:30:32 you can read what congruent means on "7.6.4" 18:30:45 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 18:31:24 I am, "without it, it accepts only those specified by all the methods" <- that implies they have to be congruent. 18:31:43 it does not 18:32:58 it implies that it accepts the union of sets where each set is a set of keywords of each method specified for the generic function 18:33:27 Then what do you mean by "accepts only those specified by all the methods"? If I have no keywords in the GF, just &key, and have a method with a keyword that is not in any other method, what are you saying will happen? 18:34:00 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:01 i just spelled this out as formally as i could 18:35:44 if that's not enough, 7.6.4 is where it's specified 18:36:40 I was typing when you posted that. My point is that if you are relying on the union, that could get confusing and that you might as well specify it in the GF. 18:37:21 then they would have to be congruent 18:37:43 which is what you were complaining about initially, isn't it? 18:39:07 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.32.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:40 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:41:43 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:42:37 I can see how you took it that way, but that's not really the issue I was trying to raise. 18:46:57 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:48:23 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 18:52:25 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:55:27 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:55 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:56:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:57:37 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@178.205-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:37 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.137] has joined #lisp 19:05:58 -!- ainm [~ainm@205.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:07:59 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:11:02 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.127] has joined #lisp 19:11:38 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:25 -!- shizzy0 [~user@c-24-91-161-73.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:52 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.14.209] has joined #lisp 19:15:42 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:16:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:16:51 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-199-200.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:53 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:18:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:18 I'm trying to make executable with (save-lisp-and-die) on sbcl of restas "hello world" http://restas.lisper.ru/en/tutorial/hello-world.html If I call (restas:start ...) in sb-ext:*init-hooks* it say `Protocol not found: "tcp"', but if I start it in (save-lisp-and-die :toplevel) it works just fine. Why? 19:18:39 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-208-68.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:46 -!- clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:19:17 Isn't that hook supposed to load after system is fully-loaded? 19:19:23 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:58 I just wanted to start it and have toplevel together. 19:21:14 -!- KognizantKog [~Kognizant@72.168.55.98] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 19:22:13 s/together/too 19:22:31 -!- shosti [~user@c-76-24-17-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:22:39 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:22:43 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:39 that error usually means that you're missing /etc/protocols 19:24:59 but since it works fine otherwise, it might be something else 19:25:58 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 19:31:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 19:32:22 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:32:34 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.14.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:33:49 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.2.5] has joined #lisp 19:34:19 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-238-79.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:56 clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:21 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:40:59 ainm [~ainm@205.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:20 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:41:31 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 19:45:08 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:16 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.160.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:44 lindes [~user@p4FF1C475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:00 lol I can make proprietary web server with proprietary hello word in lispey. 19:49:48 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.160.64] has joined #lisp 19:49:52 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:50:02 chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has joined #lisp 19:51:41 nobody will stop you 19:51:54 :( 19:52:05 you can make it in any language 19:52:26 in fact, anything you make is proprietary 19:52:36 Can I compile code in php? 19:53:19 compilation has noting to do with propriety 19:54:03 also, you can write a compiler in PHP and you can also compile PHP 19:54:04 Yes you can NeedMoreDesu, although why you would want to use php is beyond me. 19:54:15 I wonder if GCC has an extension for it? 19:54:54 http://scriptor.github.com/pharen/ 19:54:56 like GCC-MELT? 19:55:15 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.137] has joined #lisp 19:55:17 or do you mean a PHP front end 19:55:18 ? 19:55:28 Php to binary. 19:55:42 let's discuss questions pertaining to PHP somewhere else 19:55:44 I think I mixed up terms now, since I have made a fool of myself, but still... 19:55:57 Yeah, but I mean I can do .exe file with all the pages inside. Nobody can be safe running it, cuz on 1 april it can suddenly go like "Goodbye, world". 19:56:08 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:56:25 NeedMoreDesu: In that case don't you think a quick onceover with a dissassembler would have revealed that? 19:56:30 Assuming it's a small program? 19:56:35 Not that anyone would have bothered. 19:56:48 40mb is a small program? 19:57:19 Or there is special way to disassemble lispey code? 19:57:35 "lispey code" what's that? 19:57:57 (guess (message "Something like this")) 19:58:10 *sykopomp* tries to come up with a good Fonzie joke, but fails. 19:58:13 .exe, created with (sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die "foo.exe" :executable t) 19:58:15 NeedMoreDesu: there's a big runtime. The rest of your program, unless it's very large, will add very little to that. 20:01:14 So, one can easily read my code, because he knows which functions are default in lisp, or what? 20:01:41 so, you're confusing proprietary and closed-source? 20:01:51 NeedMoreDesu: If the person using the exe can get to the debugger, they can explore your program as much as they want. I'm not sure what options are available in SBCL for removing parts of the runtime. 20:01:52 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@74-84-110-222.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:47 and can't they just ask for all your docstrings? 20:02:48 btw I'm still interesting why sb-ext:*init-hooks* don't work like just typing command to repl after it loads. 20:03:12 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 20:03:25 Alas, I don't have any docstrings in this hello world. 20:04:04 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:52 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:50 -!- jollyG [~JollyG@KennPAT.uncc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:06:57 That's not really an impediment to exploring the image. 20:07:55 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:07:55 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 20:12:30 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-189-91.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:13:58 Guys, is it okay that, let's say, I have 5 different .lisp files and they are all related to each other, and I write a shell script to compile each one and then load the compiled *.fasl files? Is that enough? To be honest, I'm all new to Lisp and I don't really get the asdf thing, how do I actually load my .asdf file? 20:14:40 zolk3ri: ql:quickload can load your own systems 20:14:51 zolk3ri: It will be worth your time to learn to use ASDF. (and quicklisp) 20:15:16 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:15:20 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-186568.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:15:23 I see, so asdf is up to quicklisp! Thanks, I got it now. 20:15:40 http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html shows how to write a simple .asd file from scratch 20:16:01 hmm, although I usually use :serial t these days 20:16:06 Bookmarked! :P 20:16:08 and quickproject to write an .asd for me 20:16:23 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 20:16:35 Ok, I definitely like this page. 20:17:50 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.162.108] has joined #lisp 20:19:50 -!- young_soul [~user@78.90.30.8] has quit [Quit: Timein error] 20:21:43 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.160.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:24:14 tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.32.56.218] has joined #lisp 20:24:20 it is actually possible to maim the sbcl debugger to a point where it is almost completely useless. At some point, sbcl in arch was distributed that way due to a bug in their build script. 20:25:04 scombinator [~user@203.171.40.170] has joined #lisp 20:25:11 *dim* reads how to write a simple .asd file too 20:25:57 Do you still need to write an .asd file if you're putting it whatever on quicklisp? 20:26:05 -!- ainm [~ainm@205.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ainm] 20:26:24 scombinator: yes. quicklisp uses asdf to load systems. 20:27:08 okay then 20:27:38 it's kind of strange that the standard addresses the packaging, load, require, provide, but fails to address systems 20:27:54 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.162.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:04 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:33 require and provide are that 20:28:45 dim: require and provide are deprecated. 20:29:09 oh? 20:29:21 in favour of what? 'load'? 20:29:31 nothing is deprecated 20:29:34 scombinator: most of us use asdf 20:29:42 dim: Deprecated Language Features -> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/01_h.htm 20:29:48 paul0 [~user@177.41.243.226] has joined #lisp 20:29:58 you may safely disregard that section 20:30:42 lol, 'not expected to appear in future Common Lisp tandards[sic]' 20:30:45 you mean (info "(ansicl) Deprecated Language Features") ? 20:31:06 As if there was going to be another language tandard ever 20:31:26 another thing is that iirc they were ill-defined 20:31:29 scombinator: yes, that's why you should disregard it 20:31:34 I hold out hope that there will be some derivations and that 1 or 2 become de facto standards. 20:31:55 i hope that nothing happens because i don't want to learn something new 20:32:09 But stassats is correct, there's not much point in making an effort to avoid "deprecated" features. 20:32:52 ThomasH: it is still not a bad idea to avoid require and provide and use asdf instead. 20:33:13 Perhaps, but I never did find documentation for asdf 20:33:39 did you even try to find it? 20:33:46 H4ns: Sure. I was using require on SBCL for a while because it ends up using ASDF, but then I just started skipping the middle man. 20:33:54 scombinator: you could try the "google" thing 20:34:00 H4ns: Then came Quicklisp. 20:34:17 scombinator: it is easy. just open the google.com web site and write "asdf documentation". then press enter. 20:34:31 scombinator -> http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ 20:36:18 ThomasH: I do that too, cuz asdf requires me to write a lot of hard words where require just make it for me. 20:37:02 NeedMoreDesu: (asdf:load-system :the-system) -or- (ql:quickload :the-system) are pretty easy 20:37:03 quicklisp is greatness. 20:37:25 i just write ,l system 20:37:26 what about CL related debian packaging? 20:37:30 or (:asd system) 20:37:34 dim: "don't" 20:37:45 why not? I'm curious, I'm a n00b here 20:37:53 asdfmovie 20:37:57 bad experiences. Stick with quicklisp. 20:38:04 dim: it's bad 20:38:24 quicklisp looks like solving problems for developers, installing software in $HOME and all 20:38:40 that's exactly what it should do 20:38:40 it does not look like easy to reproduce server packaging and install management 20:38:47 dim: can't that be set? Although you would need to run the repl as root. 20:38:48 Damn I should install emacs/slime, I'm using vim lul 20:39:02 HaakonKL: dunno 20:39:08 zolk3ri: There's always VIPER mode for vim keybindings. 20:39:10 dim: I use quicklisp to gather stuff and asdf to build images 20:39:13 Yep, quicklisp is great thing indeed. I get all the packages just inside the language. 20:39:29 dim: you should condsider your lisp applications to be fully self-contained during deployment. 20:39:42 sbryant: and you ship executables that don't depend on your implementation of CL to be installed? 20:39:46 dim: do not try to attempt splitting up applications and libraries. it won't do you no good. 20:39:52 dim correct 20:40:08 H4ns: I'm happy to read that explicitly, it's the implression I have about CL 20:40:10 H4ns: having reproducible application building is useful for linux distros wanting to package them. 20:40:17 I use quicklisp to bootstrap the environment 20:40:23 sbryant: CCL seems good at that if you want to target linux+macosx+windows 20:40:23 H4ns: I assume you mean the distributions, right? Because having different files with different source should be okay? 20:40:23 and asdf to actual load the code 20:40:32 dim: I use SBCL and CCL 20:40:33 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:40:39 both are good at it 20:40:39 sykopomp: i do not say anything that contradicts that. 20:40:52 -!- H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:07 also congrats to the CCL people an 1.8! 20:41:23 yay CCL 20:41:23 I start loving lisp 20:41:34 CLisp! 20:41:51 What is CCL? The Common Lisp also known as CLisp? 20:41:57 Clozure Common Lisp 20:42:07 Clisp is a common lisp implementation as well 20:42:10 common lisp is not known as CLisp 20:42:31 stassats: I meant the Common Lisp implementation also known as CLisp 20:42:46 zolk3ri probably didn't 20:42:59 Not that CLisp was a common abbreviation for Common Lisp. 20:43:21 it's not common, it's bad 20:43:26 I think cl is better. 20:43:31 Btw, what do you guys recommend a noob like me use for a simple GUI application? 20:43:41 HaakonKL: commonqt 20:43:44 dim: you can manage quicklisp files in a repository. some files under quicklisp are tmp and cache, you don't need or want to store them. 20:43:45 hunchentoot+cl-who 20:43:48 HaakonKL: 20:44:05 sykopomp: gui? my lynx disagrees! 20:44:07 http://www.clisp.org/ Seems to be used in teaching a bit at least, and isn't SBCL a fork of it? 20:44:14 commonqt? 20:44:21 HaakonKL: SBCL is a fork of CMUCL 20:44:21 Can I get that through quicklisp? 20:44:27 sbryant: Ah, my bad. 20:44:30 HaakonKL: yes, you can 20:44:35 and I believe you can, there's a system apropos 20:44:39 so you can actually search 20:44:42 stassats: Even better! Instant terminal interface! Does Qt give you that these days? 20:45:37 Is commonqt lispish enough? 20:45:44 Who actually cares? 20:46:00 It's not like looping and formatted output are that lispish. 20:46:04 I'm just asking, no offence. 20:46:16 NeedMoreDesu: it's QT with parens 20:46:16 NeedMoreDesu: Sorry, didn't mean to sound aggressive,. 20:46:18 how do you measure lispishness? 20:46:19 HaakonKL: Looping is pretty lispy. 20:46:31 (loop while x collecting...)? 20:46:37 and what amount of it is enough? 20:46:40 enough for whom? 20:46:44 stassats: cumulative poo-poo rating in #lisp 20:46:55 At least 23% of source code must be parens? 20:46:58 Or something? 20:47:03 What is Lispishness anyway? 20:47:09 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:47:10 A functional look and feel? 20:47:29 It's not using void* everywhere. 20:47:42 use (values) instead of void* 20:48:45 I would call that sane more than lispy... 20:49:43 (define-symbol-macro void* (values)) 20:49:43 Autogenerated things aren't so sane this days. 20:49:48 or just use void* everywhere. It's okay. 20:50:01 Who needs type checking, right? 20:50:26 I like type checking. 20:50:50 sykopomp: i don't see the connection between void* and (values) 20:50:52 Type checking and void? 20:51:05 stassats: I assume they're allocating structs on the heap and returning a pointer to it. 20:51:18 I guess void* is an actual pointer... 20:51:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:51:25 It... isn't? 20:51:26 I am not versed at all in the art of C 20:51:42 it has one ear-muff, it's a pointer 20:51:44 it's not?! 20:51:49 it is! 20:51:51 You tell me? 20:52:21 I don't know C. Ask stassats. 20:52:35 I thought you were being sarcastic. 20:53:44 sykopomp: void* is like T type 20:54:11 oh 20:56:48 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:57:44 Kyril [~Kyril@76-10-136-9.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:40 -!- Kyril [~Kyril@76-10-136-9.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:59:41 Kyril [~Kyril@fedora/Kyril] has joined #lisp 20:59:53 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.197.117] has joined #lisp 21:00:17 sudaraka [~sudaraka@124.43.23.203] has joined #lisp 21:01:36 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 21:02:05 SIFTU [~SIFTU@unaffiliated/siftu] has joined #lisp 21:02:09 -!- SIFTU [~SIFTU@unaffiliated/siftu] has left #lisp 21:02:57 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.127] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:23 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.127] has joined #lisp 21:03:25 -!- tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.32.56.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:38 and void is like NIL 21:04:28 although a type of a function NIL usually means that it doesn't return 21:05:21 I'm looking for a LISP programmer to restore a messed up system, anyone? 21:05:37 What system? 21:05:53 LISP in all capitals; must be old 21:07:04 some system that generates PDFs from a database, for a friend of mine 21:07:16 how much does he pay? 21:07:22 And it's written in Common Lisp? 21:07:46 (and indeed, we're professionals). 21:07:50 I know about pl/scheme for PostgreSQL, written using Guile, but I don't know about PL/CL, which could use ECL I guess, that would be fun 21:07:54 to both questions - no idea 21:08:08 dim: postmodern is a postgresql interface for CL 21:08:20 it's for a friend of mine, he tried to modify some thing and it broke 21:08:32 PL/x means procedural language, means it runes from inside the database server 21:08:34 sudaraka: Why not just revert to the old version then? 21:08:52 HaakonKL: that didn't work 21:09:04 sudaraka: have your friend post a description of his problem on news:comp.lang.lisp or on mailto:pro@common-lisp.net 21:09:05 dim: ah 21:09:11 What source control do you guys use? 21:09:15 RCS? 21:09:17 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:09:17 fossil. 21:09:19 dim: figured someone shoved guile into pg 21:09:23 http://www.fossil-scm.org 21:09:30 git 21:09:34 HaakonKL: it includes a bug tracker and a wiki :-) 21:09:38 thought fossil is damn cool 21:09:44 though* 21:10:05 pjb: ok, will do, thanks 21:10:12 copying files manually and appending ~n, of course 21:10:28 remember guys, tarballs are the best way of doing SCM 21:10:36 Qworkescence: of course. 21:10:37 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:10:38 *chupish* uses VMS with RMS-11 21:10:44 Qworkescence: and the funny thing is that modern scm just do that! 21:10:51 (modulo some optimizations) 21:11:05 I think git's set of changes in files are rather cool. 21:11:22 Then again, I've only used git and subversion, so my experience is rather limited. 21:11:28 pjb: What was the "killer feature" of fossil that motivated you to use it? 21:11:54 It lets the public create accounts for the bug tracker in the box. 21:12:05 The all in one approach is pretty awesome 21:12:14 With trac, I would have had to find some external module to create users. 21:12:18 Mongrel2 used to do that 21:12:26 or used to use fossil 21:12:41 yeah, and then it exploded for one reason or another 21:12:46 What about the expensive commercial ones like Perforce? 21:12:52 chupish: yeah, no idea 21:12:54 Are they any good? 21:12:57 HaakonKL: perforce is awesome 21:13:06 http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1276624594.html 21:13:11 they wouldn't be expensive if they were any good 21:13:14 that's his initial "Why I Use Fossil" 21:13:22 http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1306005291.html 21:13:31 that's his "Everything is on Github" post 21:13:43 How can you trust commercial software? I've had a look at the C sources of fossil, they're quite nice. 21:13:57 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA09A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:03 On the other hand, each time I had a peek at proprietary commercial software, I was rather horrified. 21:14:04 -!- sudaraka [~sudaraka@124.43.23.203] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:14:19 pjb: the same way as with non-commercial software, by looking at its source code 21:14:22 I've been horrified at open source software too 21:14:39 *Sgeo_* reflects on trusting trust 21:14:44 stassats: yes, but when you don't have the sources, you must apply bayes, and it's not good for commercial software. 21:15:03 hah 21:15:04 pjb: bayes? 21:15:04 there exist open source commercial software 21:15:10 RedHat? 21:15:12 IBM? 21:15:19 HaakonKL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes%27_theorem 21:15:32 stassats: true. But it's rare. 21:15:56 (On the other hand, they're probably the best amongst commercial software). 21:16:27 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:18:07 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:16 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:26 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.65.225] has joined #lisp 21:18:59 zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@92-249-207-4.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 21:20:03 -!- zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@92-249-207-4.pool.digikabel.hu] has left #lisp 21:20:14 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:20:55 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:21:30 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:22:54 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C475.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:24:38 I have a problem with the fact that Shedding Bikes doesn't have a timestamp on the post. I have no idea if he talking about Fossil from last week or last year. 21:26:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:28:26 felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has joined #lisp 21:28:57 kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:34 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:30:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:20 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 21:34:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-12.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:30 ThomasH: well, suggest he put one on there and provide that compelling example. 21:34:58 tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.23.126.59] has joined #lisp 21:35:27 ThomasH: I'm guessing Tuesday, June 07, 2011 7:38:45 AM 21:36:14 scombinator: Did I miss it somewhere or is that a joke? 21:37:56 -!- kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:08 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.148.197.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:16 ThomasH: I'm kidding, it's the page modification date. Of course there's a counterpoint against fossil here: http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1306005291.html 21:38:23 it's "Last modified" 21:38:37 kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:48 -!- kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:33 stassats: whatev 21:39:54 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@74-84-110-222.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:39:59 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA09A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:40:00 i answered the question, not corrected you 21:40:37 I don't see "Last modified" on any of the pages. 21:40:48 it's an HTTP header 21:43:51 heh.. I think it's the last time he built his jekyll 21:44:13 Anyway, the latter post suggests he never goes back to fossil 21:44:59 now that this dilemma is resolved, i can sleep well 21:45:13 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:45:32 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.65.185] has joined #lisp 21:45:36 chturne [~chturne@host86-136-158-113.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:38 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:45 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:54 -!- tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.23.126.59] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:46 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:53:04 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-189-91.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:04 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:54:18 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:47 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082927C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:07 -!- daniel [~daniel@p50829F77.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:58:44 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:58:45 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-192-196.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:59:48 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 22:07:12 ilkmgf [~chatzilla@2965.artic.edu] has joined #lisp 22:08:41 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:20 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:52 ainm [~ainm@205.Red-79-156-37.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:49 batot [~batot@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:50 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 22:14:40 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 22:15:31 -!- asvil [~asvil@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:15 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@101.63.220.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:21 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:25 -!- batot [~batot@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:20:46 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-108-49-139-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:21:23 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.61] has joined #lisp 22:21:47 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:27:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:45 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 22:32:55 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-18-50.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:35:17 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-163-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:33 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 22:36:17 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host165-224-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:36:18 jules` [~user@c-98-225-158-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:26 -!- ilkmgf [~chatzilla@2965.artic.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:24 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 22:40:00 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:40:13 -!- HaakonKL [~user@ti0004a340-0627.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Good bye and thanks for all the fish] 22:45:40 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:41 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:45:41 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:46:38 dekuked [~user@pool-108-49-139-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:08 kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-233.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:25 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:58 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:57:11 Posterdati [~tapioca@host187-229-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:57:59 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:08 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129194179.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:11 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:02:25 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 23:03:43 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-108-49-139-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:05:11 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:10:17 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 23:11:20 Wow! (make-sequence 'cons 8) 23:11:49 what a country! 23:12:03 where's wow? 23:12:40 I never knew. 23:12:55 what did you expect it to return? 23:12:59 error 23:13:14 that's not logical, is it? 23:13:43 -!- jules` [~user@c-98-225-158-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:04 (make-sequence 'cons 0) 23:17:17 as compared for example to using vector, string, bit-vector etc as the type arg 23:18:21 a list of zero length is not a cons 23:18:36 yeah i get it. just surprised me is all :P 23:18:36 "An error of type type-error should be signaled if result-type specifies the number of elements and size is different from that number." 23:18:54 you're easily surprised 23:19:11 maybe so 23:19:36 -!- chupish [182c5af4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.44.90.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:20:58 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:19 Prob because many of the functions of Section 17 of the spec require that their sequence arg be a proper sequence 23:22:10 why can't conses be proper sequences? 23:22:26 in fact, most of proper lists are conses 23:23:41 a cons is an improper list and therefor not a proper sequence 23:24:12 that's not true 23:24:34 erp sorry i misread 23:25:32 tensorpudding__ [~michael@108.87.23.217] has joined #lisp 23:27:01 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gone] 23:27:58 rgrep of my local dists/quicklisp/software/ doesn't find alot of make-sequence usage either. 23:28:51 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.65.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:16 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 23:30:29 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:31:14 hi folks, what is the most preferred gui lib for cl nowadays? 23:32:11 there was cl-gtk2 but Dimitry seems to stop maintaining it 2 years ago, works like a charm in linux but I have not been able to test in windows 23:32:14 jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:05 has anyone used cl-gtk2 in windows recently? 23:34:53 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:09 commonqt 23:35:14 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:35:28 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:35:28 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:36:19 mgodshall [~quassel@pool-108-36-207-226.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:08 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 23:37:27 stassats: thanks man, checking now 23:38:35 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:57 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 23:43:27 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:15 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:10 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 23:47:37 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:48:40 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-159.lpa.idec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:37 kenanb: ltk has its limitations, but I've never had it fail on any CL on any platform at any point in the last several years 23:55:39 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.32.60.145] has joined #lisp 23:56:00 but the dependency on wish is something some ppl don't like 23:57:30 jasom: yeah, I am thinking of dropping to ltk anyway, commonQt seems cool and well maintained but example code make me think it will take some time to learn, and I will need to learn some qt in the meantime :) 23:58:04 -!- paul0 [~user@177.41.243.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:58:04 the horrors of learning 23:58:11 -!- kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-233.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:58:53 -!- tensorpudding__ [~michael@108.87.23.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:59:04 -!- jollyG [~JollyG@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:59:19 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Quit: even in laughter, the heart of Snorlax is sorrowful. and the end of that mirth is heaviness.] 23:59:27 stassats: I don't care about learning but bindings doesn't seem incredibly lispy