00:00:25 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:01:29 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:08 -!- pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-237-177.csuohio.edu] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:07:39 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:09:24 -!- ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ainm] 00:09:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:11:59 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 00:14:01 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 00:14:07 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:17:36 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:19:23 Xach what do you use to write docs? 00:19:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:43 maxm-: emacs 00:20:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:20:18 *maxm-* was looking for more of a useful answer, but oh well 00:20:34 That is what I use. 00:20:58 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:21:07 I meant as in what is the source format, and what tool is eventually used to convert it to the output for the user (ie html?) 00:21:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:21:48 The source format is HTML and the tool is Emacs. 00:21:50 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl081-060-042.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:21:54 *maxm-* still has hopes someone will do redcarpet hack to syntax highlight lisp blocks 00:22:29 Xach: that seems like tons of manual work 00:22:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:39 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 00:22:45 maxm-: emacs helps. 00:23:04 *maxm-* found redcarpet markdown tool to be pretty much what you need, except for syntax coloring part 00:23:14 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:24:04 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:25:00 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:36 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:26:06 <|3b|> 3bmd can do lisp syntax coloring 00:26:41 maxm-: htmlize? 00:26:53 3b: ah cool thanks, that did not come up with my search somehow 00:27:08 |3b|: nifty! 00:28:10 <|3b|> (for best results, you might want the colorize from https://github.com/3b/colorize rather than the one from quicklisp, unless that one has started being updated again) 00:28:37 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:29:01 *|3b|* doesn't remember what specifically was different though, aside from grabbing newer code from lisppaste 00:29:34 3b: this looks interesting.. I'll add it to my list of stuff to check 00:29:40 3b: this is quite awesome from the 1st look, you should have advertised your lib more.. By any chance, did you do github integration (they let you introduce your own markdown parsers, and then submit pull requests, for github support?) 00:30:25 agreed that would be _really_ nice 00:31:31 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:32:31 *|3b|* hasn't done much of anything with it (github integration or otherwise), the project i wanted it for has been stalled for a while :/ 00:33:02 *maxm-* still hopes that he can somehow generate log4cl documentation from docstrings eventually, rather then writing full manual 00:33:12 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:22 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 00:36:25 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:37:17 maxm-: it's pretty simple, i did that for cl-freetype2, but it only forms the reference section of the doc 00:38:20 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:41:06 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:42:12 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 00:46:04 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.103.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:46:08 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:22 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:54:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:32 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:17 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:38 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:48 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:00:14 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 01:03:00 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:10 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:03:21 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:08 -!- kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:07:14 alvis` [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:54 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:08:47 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-6-178-38.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:12:04 KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.40.54] has joined #lisp 01:12:54 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:07 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 01:15:22 ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:40 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:36 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-149-106.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:05 lemonade` [~lemonade`@pool-71-178-183-215.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:58 zulu_inuoe_ [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:09 -!- zulu_inuoe_ [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 01:30:54 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A075.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:31:41 -!- tensorpudding__ is now known as tensorpudding 01:31:49 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:13 By chance, is anyone here running LispWorks Professional 32-bit on Windows 7 x64 ? 01:32:23 Version 6.1 .. 01:32:49 I'm running 64-bit, is this 32-bit specific? 01:33:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:41 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:43 Well it's just that my LispWorks crashes when I open up the "Code" tab on the Interface Builder 01:33:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:10 have you considered contacting support? 01:34:30 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-202-56.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 01:34:42 Haha, yes I am going to do so, but I just wanted to ask if anyone else has experienced the problem. Maybe it was something minor 01:35:33 I've not run into that, but I don't use the interface builder. It's useful for initially laying things out, but after that I find it's best to go in by hand. 01:36:25 I agree with you. Though it seems to be a bug and should be handled regardless 01:36:26 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:36:44 Have you searched lisp-hug? 01:37:07 I did not even know about that 01:38:01 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:38:19 I don't see anything related scanning the GMANE archive. You should subscribe to lisp-hug. 01:38:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:39:20 zulu_inuoe: I'm not going to test my version to see if it crashes, I'm in the middle of something and don't want to have to get back to this point. 01:39:42 -!- clintm [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 01:39:58 ThomasH: Ehehe I understand. Thank you 01:40:15 Kyril [~Kyril@fedora/Kyril] has joined #lisp 01:40:51 zulu_inuoe: Help -> Report bug... They respond very quickly. 01:41:28 rvirding [u5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sbuoooeljsrodgky] has joined #lisp 01:41:41 Oh that's convenient. Roger roger! 01:50:36 Jsandys [~jeff@70.103.58.197] has joined #lisp 01:54:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:54:31 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54:41 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:06 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:56 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:56:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:41 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:10 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 01:58:52 hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:04 davlaps [~davlaps@173-11-70-229-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:45 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:09 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:05:38 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:11 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:15:38 -!- Jsandys [~jeff@70.103.58.197] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:15:56 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 02:24:01 -!- gekko_ [~jjk@exchange.pro-it.dk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:25:04 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:28:40 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-202-56.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:13 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:29:21 11:35:23 Besides, it's just like anything else. Format control strings are not hard to write and not much harder to read. You just have to learn how to parse them. It's like the parentheses in lisp, you learn to ignore them. 02:29:27 ^-- I think it's worth considering that learning to read s-expressions (i.e: learning to ignore parentheses) takes some amount of effort, which is okay since when you're done getting used to it you get very major rentability on your investment... 02:29:31 And then there's this one operator, FORMAT, not even accounting for 1% of CL, that brutally departs from the usual conventions, requiring a significant amount of learning to master reading easily (if ever)... 02:29:35 Sorry but all but the most trivial FORMAT control strings *are* hard to write and read, unless significant effort is expanded in learning it, comparable to learning to read s-expressions, and the benefit is pretty small in comparison. 02:30:40 Oops, forgot the double quotes on the first message... 02:34:46 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:53 hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:54 Anyway, bedtime. 02:34:56 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:35:21 (decf Hexstream) ; for leaving without waiting for an answer. 02:35:42 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c0313.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:48 hehe 02:36:15 I'm a little surprised that he would bring up a topic that old. 02:36:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d013baf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:36:56 People don't understand CL> 02:38:27 If you don't like (format t "~{~A~}~%" list), write: (format t (seq (list (outc)) (nl)) list) instead. 02:39:47 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 02:40:16 -!- didi [~user@187.122.1.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:29 That's one option among many. On matters of aesthetics, it's best to let people follow their own sensibilities. 02:41:08 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:12 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41:40 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:43:41 -!- acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:46:57 http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dvanhorn/pubs/tobin-hochstadt-vanhorn-preprint11.pdf 02:51:29 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 02:53:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-68-41-30-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 02:53:24 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:54:04 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 02:55:18 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:57:53 I havn't seen it yet. How does one create a comment? 02:58:25 ; 02:59:32 ;;; For top level, ;; in code on separate line, ; at EOL 02:59:43 #| |# for block comments 02:59:43 ty 03:00:53 You'll sometimes see #|| ||#, but that's only a hack to help emacs not get confused by syntax. 03:01:21 Also, see 'documentation strings'. 03:02:05 I'd have preferred documentation forms, over comments, myself. 03:03:33 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 03:04:59 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 03:05:19 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 03:06:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:15:45 Zhivago: I think I get your point. documentation that is recognized by the compiler and included in the application only presents a problem if you are on very limited systems. 03:16:17 You can always transform your code to eliminate it. 03:16:52 Meaning instruct the compiler to ignore the documentation? 03:17:16 Well, a code-walker, macro, etc. 03:17:27 Something that understands code can decide to strip them. 03:23:16 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:23:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:20 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 03:29:51 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:58 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-198-107.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:58 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-240-198-107.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:29:58 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:30:13 -!- rme [rme@925CAFE6.4F96F671.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:30:13 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.136.254] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:34:46 -!- ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:39:49 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:02 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-006.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 03:45:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vqqbxgzaaflzqaun] has joined #lisp 03:47:28 -!- lemonade` [~lemonade`@pool-71-178-183-215.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:54:28 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@173-11-70-229-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:57:32 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:00:09 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7A84.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:03:54 -!- cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:07 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 04:07:02 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 04:07:39 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:19:21 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:39 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:19 Kenjin_ [~josesanto@2.82.94.233] has joined #lisp 04:21:49 xzpeter [d24939ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.73.57.202] has joined #lisp 04:22:39 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 04:23:32 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-71-228.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:24:33 Hi, all. I am using Emacs+Slime and learning Common Lisp these days. I am using C-c C-c shortcuts in Emacs to compile my DEFUNs in Lisp, if there is any warning during the compilation, the DEFUN keyword will be underlined with orange color. After that, I can move the cursor onto the DEFUN to see what's wrong here. However, I don't want to use mouse every time to check compilation errors/warnings, what should I do? (Sorry for the long q 04:25:17 xzpeter, slime has a compilation window that is lurking around 04:25:20 try going to another buffer 04:25:33 list your buffers and find the compilation output 04:25:44 xzpeter: C-x C-b should list the buffers 04:25:50 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-188-8.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 04:26:19 -!- Kenjin_ [~josesanto@2.82.94.233] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:26:59 Quadrescence: yes, I see that there is a *slime-compliation* buffer 04:27:24 yes, that should display the info you want 04:27:34 samebchase: thx for the shortcuts, is there any quicker way to switch to the buffer? 04:28:08 Or set SLIME to automatically jump out the buffer after I have complied any DEFUN that has errors/warnings? 04:28:31 xzpeter: M-n and M-p IIRC. 04:28:40 xzpeter: read the slime Manual. 04:29:13 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-149-106.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:29:42 xzpeter: that is the default way of switching buffers. EmacsWiki will have some other buffer-switching alternatives you can check out 04:29:57 samebchase: thx 04:30:02 pjb: thx, I'll check. 04:34:16 xzpeter: M-n/M-p will navigate through errors/warnings/style-warnings/notes. 04:36:00 xzpeter: keep a REPL open at all times and watch output there? 04:36:24 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:05 if you have threaded output, you typically have to watch *inferior-lisp*, though. For later reference, obviously 04:41:38 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:15 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 04:42:49 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 04:43:20 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 04:48:51 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 04:54:07 hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:52 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:56:13 superflit_ [~superflit@71-218-200-111.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:23 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:23 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 05:02:37 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:06:36 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:08:07 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08:55 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:13:17 benny` [~benny@i577A8C5E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:13:28 -!- benny` is now known as benny 05:15:55 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:14 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ijbujilblsgmjvbj] has joined #lisp 05:17:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:35 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:21:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.130.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:23:16 xan_ [~xan@52.Red-2-136-218.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:31 mel0on [1000@h-70-73.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 05:25:33 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:29:02 davlaps [~davlaps@adsl-76-215-232-14.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:31 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-bbwrrcutitmkdkey] has joined #lisp 05:29:31 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-bbwrrcutitmkdkey] has quit [Changing host] 05:29:31 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:34:03 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 05:35:47 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:39:39 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-9-43.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:43:14 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:08 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:37 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 05:48:54 pkhuong: I got it. Thanks! 05:49:31 Ralith: I think the M-n/M-p is the best one I wanted :) 05:49:42 okay 05:49:50 you should have a REPL open at all times anyway, though. 05:49:59 Yes. I do 05:50:21 your impl doesn't print warnings and such there? 05:50:37 Yes. 05:50:59 Ralith: only if I use slime-compile-file 05:51:17 but what I usually use is slime-compile-defun 05:51:32 oh, that reminds me 05:51:40 anyone know how to talk slime into decoding utf8? 05:55:20 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:55:39 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.124.92] has joined #lisp 05:56:24 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:56:40 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:43 Another question: how to convert STRINGs to LABELs? e.g. I have "apple" and I want 'apple. 05:57:58 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:58:15 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.35.86] has joined #lisp 05:58:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-157.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:01:30 `(quote ,(intern "APPLE")) 06:01:46 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:03:15 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 06:03:24 xzpeter: I don't know what a "LABEL" is. Perhaps you mean symbol? 06:03:34 if so, why do you want to do that? 06:03:49 Yes. Sorry 06:04:24 I just found that I can convert symbols to strings, but not otherwise. 06:04:32 use (string 'symbol) 06:04:38 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:44 I must go!.. 06:04:46 -!- xzpeter [d24939ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.210.73.57.202] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:04:52 oookay then! 06:07:43 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@adsl-76-215-232-14.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 06:08:31 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:09:38 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:10:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:12:49 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:13:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:20 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:46 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:16:09 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:16:52 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:19:47 teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has joined #lisp 06:25:00 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 06:27:16 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 06:27:39 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has joined #lisp 06:28:38 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:44 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:29:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:33:11 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:52 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:33:58 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 06:36:32 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:40:42 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:44:53 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has joined #lisp 06:46:12 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:06 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:50:18 SpacePoet [~StarPoet@ppp-124-122-166-203.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:50:23 given a list, how do i get a list of elements composing of all the elements before some element and all the elements after? 06:50:34 (proc 5 (1 2 3 4 5 6 7)) -> (1 2 3 4 6 7) 06:51:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.35.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:53:58 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-068-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:43 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:57:47 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.155.58.239] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:57:58 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.124.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:58:42 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.124.92] has joined #lisp 06:59:03 (remove 5 '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7)) 06:59:05 SpacePoet: could use remove 06:59:12 gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 06:59:18 teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has joined #lisp 07:01:31 does remove remove every single instance of 5? 07:01:37 cuz then that wouldn't really work 07:01:58 i want to compare each element in a list with every other element 07:03:19 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:03:19 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:03:19 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:05:02 SpacePoet: you there? 07:05:19 yes 07:06:00 SpacePoet: filter 07:07:01 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:02 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.16.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:07:19 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 07:10:29 sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has joined #lisp 07:12:13 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 07:12:52 -!- sn0rri [~sn0rri@62.169.219.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:05 you couldn't say that without checking if im here? 07:13:16 filter wont work btw 07:13:21 perhaps you should read what i say 07:15:03 TimKack [~user@c-2ec2aeaa-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 07:17:09 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec2aeaa-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:17 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c0313.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:17:37 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0313.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:00 SpacePoet: there is no function that directly does what you want 07:19:13 SpacePoet: no _standard_ function, that is. 07:20:12 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:21:17 adu: what is "filter"? 07:21:36 oops it's a scheme thing 07:27:17 throw him in the river 07:27:50 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:29:28 TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5CF2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:12 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 07:30:39 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:27 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:30 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:23 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-14-41.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:04 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:38:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@52.Red-2-136-218.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:39:18 bas_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:18 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 07:40:29 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:31 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42:26 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has joined #lisp 07:44:04 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.94.233] has joined #lisp 07:44:50 (throw h4ns river) 07:48:50 (play-music 'harmonielehre :part 1) 07:49:00 o_O 07:49:17 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:49:20 sorry, (play-music harmonielehre adams :part 1) 07:56:19 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:57:42 -!- espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr] has quit [Quit: espadrine] 07:59:36 -!- deMimsyPorp [~SirMimsy@static-50-43-23-71.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 08:01:04 lhz [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has joined #lisp 08:02:42 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:02:44 deMimsyPorp [~SirMimsy@static-50-43-23-71.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:31 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:06:04 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:08:36 blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:56 goodmorning dear #lisp, Is this legal some other way (I dont want to select the slot statically)? (Clisp allows it, sbcl cries) (defstruct foo (bar nil)) (defvar x (make-foo)) (setf (funcall 'foo-bar x) 0) 08:10:04 -!- Younder [~john@4.203.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:54 lhz: you could use clos objects and slot-value instead of structs, problem solved. 08:12:04 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:13:06 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.94.233] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 08:13:23 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill_] 08:13:31 *|3b|* sees nothing in the spec requiring (setf (funcall ...) ...) to work 08:13:35 -!- blitz_` is now known as blitz_ 08:14:04 Yes I'm looking at 5.1.2.2, slot-value would work for clos. O 08:14:31 you can look up the setf functions for the slots. it isn't guaranteed to work portably, but it seems to work on SBCL, CCL, and CLISP 08:15:03 you can also generate your accessor name at run time. 08:15:11 but then, all that just to avoid clos? 08:15:40 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:29 so does #'(setf foo-bar) -> undefined-function indicate that the implementation does some magic for defstruct? 08:17:10 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 08:17:26 <|3b|> spec doesn't say how SETF on struct accessors is implemented 08:18:03 <|3b|> could be a (setf foo) function, or setf expander, or whatever 08:18:57 l1sp.org/cl/5.1.2.2 08:19:21 (funcall (compile nil `(lambda (new-value object) (setf (,accessor object) new-value))) 0 x) 08:19:25 <|3b|> actually, maybe not 'whatever', choices are explicitly setf function or setf expander 08:19:43 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.94.233] has joined #lisp 08:19:58 but yes, if you want to do this CLOS provides SLOT-VALUE for you 08:20:27 |3b|: no, the spec leaves that open. "..it may use setf functions, setf expanders, or some other implementation-dependent mechanism known to that implementation's code for setf." 08:20:38 so in theory, it could use "magic" 08:21:15 imagine there is a rather expensive procedure and i want to say something along the line of; if procedure returns a result, use the result to do stuff. normally i would do (if (proc) (stuff (proc)) but then i will haveto proc twice. can i proc once?? 08:21:18 *|3b|* was looking at "When this option is false or unsupplied, it is implementation-dependent whether the ability to write the slot is implemented by a setf function or a setf expander. " 08:22:05 hefner: does not the paragraph about selector functions of defstruct in 5.1.2.2 apply? 08:22:06 We've each got a sentence from the spec, let's battle them like Pokemon. 08:22:31 SpacePoet: maybe anaphora, like (awhen (proc) (stuff proc))? 08:22:32 TheMue_ [~TheMue@p5DDF774C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:38 SpacePoet: you mean (alexandria:if-let (result (proc)) (stuff result)) 08:22:41 Ok, so there aren't any neat solution using defstruct. I want to run on sbcl too so I'll switch to defclass. Thanks for the help! 08:22:45 oh, i've drifted away from the FUNCALL question 08:22:46 um (stuff it) actually 08:22:56 ferada: you suggested anaphora and got it wrong right away :p 08:23:09 yeees my bad 08:23:17 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:21 © 08:23:42 what is alexandria:if-let 08:24:03 lhz: what do you mean by "neat solutions"? what was the problem? 08:24:09 funny enough the code here has it's own variant of if-let which is also named aif -.- 08:24:45 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.94.233] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 08:24:48 lhz: you can use APPLY, that's required to work by the spec 08:24:49 SpacePoet: well, you could also just use (let .. when ..) 08:24:51 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5CF2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:24:51 -!- TheMue_ is now known as TheMue 08:24:57 jdz: I'm calling a function that is given the slot name and object, and it need to assign a value to that. Like Kryztof solution. 08:25:26 lhz: oh, using slot name. 08:25:52 lhz: maybe you want property lists or alists or hashtables? 08:26:42 <|3b|> class seems reasonable from the description so far 08:26:56 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:27:37 H4ns; do explain 08:28:00 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:28:15 SpacePoet: you can bind the result of calling (proc) to a lexical variable then then call stuff with it, if non-nil 08:28:15 <|3b|> plist/alist/hash table would be better if the set of slots was unpredictable, as opposed to which slot we wanted from a predetermined set 08:28:35 SpacePoet: this seems such a basic thing that i suspect i am missing something in your question. 08:30:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 08:34:20 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-tgrqhwrjgweezwjj] has joined #lisp 08:36:27 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.109.149] has joined #lisp 08:38:56 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:57 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:31 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 08:40:31 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 08:49:12 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:14 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:55 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:56:27 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 08:58:23 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 08:58:26 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:58:30 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:58:30 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:58:36 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:19 -!- lhz [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has left #lisp 08:59:53 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:04 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 09:01:40 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:59 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 09:06:00 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:53 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128179182.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 09:14:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-157.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:14:22 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:15:49 -!- DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 09:20:51 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:24:21 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.24] has joined #lisp 09:24:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.24] has quit [Changing host] 09:24:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:25:48 springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has joined #lisp 09:28:29 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vqqbxgzaaflzqaun] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29:47 mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:38 can i define stuff inside a define? 09:33:29 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:34:48 SpacePoet: what do you mean by "inside a define" and what is "stuff"? 09:36:07 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:36:27 would (define (proc x) (define (sproc) (...)) (map sproc x)) work? 09:36:41 SpacePoet: you are in the wrong channel 09:37:05 SpacePoet: it seems that you are trying to program in scheme. this channel is about common lisp. 09:40:00 blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 09:40:51 wat? 09:40:59 lisp and scheme are the same 09:41:02 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.152] has joined #lisp 09:41:39 is there any simple framework for 2d drawing ? something that needs minimum initialization and can draw poly, circle, line and text 09:42:09 SpacePoet: no. please go to #scheme with your scheme questions. thank you. 09:42:26 anonus: i've been using cl-gd in the past and it worked well for me. 09:42:35 hm 09:42:45 gd is for makeing images ? 09:43:02 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.40.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:03 oh, sorry, i forgot ) i need animation too 09:43:16 anonus: ah. i retract my suggestion. 09:44:05 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.201.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:06 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:15 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:47:31 Younder [~john@4.203.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:48:41 OK, I'm writing funlib (a functional library, based on experiences with Haskell and ML) 09:49:06 Hope you find it usefull 09:50:10 Younder: monads and algebraic types ? curring ? :3 09:50:13 sounds fun. 09:50:31 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:51:19 anonus: NO It will be restricted to lists 09:51:29 wut? 09:51:55 function lib for lists ? 09:52:02 so its about foldr and foldl? 09:52:17 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 09:52:23 Weak I agree, but If you want to use dwfmwtod to extend it to abritrary sequences by all means do so 09:52:38 defmethod 09:53:27 For my means list's are sufficient 09:53:39 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.57] has joined #lisp 09:54:49 ferada, foldr and foldl are fairly low level. Not sure they'll make it. 09:58:35 antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has joined #lisp 10:02:57 they shouldn't -> REDUCE; so whats included then? 10:03:21 span, partion-by etc 10:04:38 Thigs I have written in the past that I have found useful 10:05:09 things 10:06:53 k, if you're making a library maybe consider existing ones, which have a different name though, i.e. split-sequence and so on, not to prevent you from having fun implementing it though :) 10:07:35 ferada, I am working hard NOT to duplicate functionality already in Lisp 10:08:37 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:10:23 I've used Lisp for 20 years now so I'd figure I'd have a shot at this one. 10:11:57 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14:44 Common Lisp as a foundation is very stron. We just need a few good lib's. 10:14:53 strong 10:15:07 Younder: who's "we" in this context? 10:15:17 well I :) 10:15:21 :) 10:15:24 common lispers 10:15:56 dim: people's needs differ 10:16:48 yeah but often enough the same toolset is useful to lots of people 10:17:19 I'm new here, so I don't know yet how much of the common needed toolset is accounted for in the CL standard 10:18:14 Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has joined #lisp 10:19:36 dim: What's this common need? someone like dto needs opengl, someone else needs webtools, and a third needs GUI dev. 10:19:51 Well I'll give you an example.. How is that. 10:20:23 or threads, or encodings, or environment access, or iteration, or lazy structures, or multiprocessing 10:21:38 lazy structures and multiprocessing please :) 10:21:41 http://paste.lisp.org/+2R8P 10:21:50 dim: ya those are not in the standard. 10:22:10 encodings in fact would be more readily important to me 10:22:23 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 10:22:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: home] 10:22:35 dim. FAR more difficult. Though seres shows a way ti implement Lazyness in CL 10:22:43 +series 10:22:55 Younder: consider adding the missing functions to alexandria rather than creating yet another library overlapping with it. 10:23:09 I would think that continuation would provide for lazyness? 10:23:11 just (ql:quickload "series") 10:23:24 http://www.bookshelf.jp/texi/onlisp/onlisp_21.html 10:23:46 there's an exemple of implement call/cc in common lisp with some macros 10:23:50 H4ns, Considered it, but in the end I won't 10:23:57 I guess it's a book example, not production ready code, thoug 10:24:01 though 10:24:50 My code is top notch. I dare you to better it. But it only works on lists. 10:25:36 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.109.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:26:54 dim: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-cont/ 10:27:03 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: C'mon, Deckard. I'm right here, but you've gotta shoot straight!] 10:27:19 dim: you can find libraries for lazyness and what not too if it floats your boat. 10:27:58 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:14 Multicore programming is running over Lisp like a fraight train. You gotta stay on top. 10:28:23 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:28:53 This is just a step. But it IS a step in the right direction. 10:28:54 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:35 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qknpplvvcnlolxgd] has joined #lisp 10:33:35 I DONT like that series is a separate structure from a List. 10:34:26 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has joined #lisp 10:35:05 So I came up with funlib.. take it or leave it. 10:51:39 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:33 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:52:50 -!- gko [~gko@220.228.255.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:52:57 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 10:54:29 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 10:55:07 -!- SpacePoet [~StarPoet@ppp-124-122-166-203.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310010446]] 10:58:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:06:20 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.177] has joined #lisp 11:09:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:11:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.177] has quit [Client Quit] 11:11:57 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.177] has joined #lisp 11:15:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.177] has quit [Client Quit] 11:16:45 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.177] has joined #lisp 11:28:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:32:13 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 11:34:40 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.10] has joined #lisp 11:39:44 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qknpplvvcnlolxgd] has left #lisp 11:43:17 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:43:42 -!- blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has left #lisp 11:44:45 Younder: At the danger of being told to stfu by ppl again, I'll share my practical experience of processing lots of time series with CL.. Functional stuff is great for prototyping, and elegantly coding an idea. But then when you want to process 10 years of 144 tick bars with it, even with SBCL speed 3 safety 0, you hit the wall 11:44:58 that can be only solved by clustering with startup level moneys 11:45:46 What are you gibbering about? 11:46:09 sbcl is an implementation of CL which is a procedural language. 11:46:43 So I ended up recoding my carefully throught out beatiful code, into a kludgy macro system full of (the ...), and emulating defstruct, but storing data per column (ie prices are stored as array of (unsigned-byte 16) of differences from previous tick 11:47:16 Why are you storing them in memory? 11:47:41 Zhivago: you referring to me or Younder? My comment is with regards to him trying to create beatifully functional series type library 11:48:08 I think there were in fact a several projects attempting to do the same, none got any traction due to performance 11:48:42 And what took the most time? 11:49:05 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:49:11 pretty much anything involving lambdas and consing, kills it performance wise 11:49:31 So, you didn't do any profiling? 11:49:38 of course I did 11:49:44 And what took the most time? 11:50:13 generic+/generic- followed by GC 11:50:35 Ok. Now you're not gibbering uselessly. 11:50:48 Why were you using generic+ and generic-? 11:51:19 coz my initial idea was writing on top of one of the "generic" container libraries that already existed, cl-mathstats or such 11:51:50 ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:18 So, what is this gibbering about functional? 11:52:58 Anyway, if someone writes a library that while maintaining functional style, can get 50% of equivalent c++ code, I'll be glad to be proven wrong 11:53:14 What does 'functional style' mean? 11:53:29 50% of speed on a simple task such as transform 1 time series into another one, for example calculating the min/max range over a lagging window 11:53:43 What does 'functional style' mean? 11:54:07 Zhivago: stop repeating, we are not at a game show, you'll get better answer if I think about it for a bit 11:54:10 that sounds like something you could do with a SQL query, why are you writing it in lisp? 11:54:18 hah 11:54:42 I'm serious here, sql has window functions for that kind of stuff 11:55:50 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:55:50 maxm: Let me know if you figure out what you're talking about. 11:56:28 maxm-: please don't let him troll you 11:56:30 dim: yes they do, and no one is using them, because a) its actually hard to write new stuff with it b) its oracle specific c) oracle cost money nd will sue you to get it d) have you actaully tried it? I did 11:56:46 ok sorry did not realize hes a troll 11:57:09 maxm-: PostgreSQL implemented window functions in 8.4, stable version now is 9.1. 11:57:10 Why is it trolling to ask what you mean by functional programming when you're blaming it for your problems? 11:57:29 Think carefully. 11:57:34 and yes I'm using window function with PostgreSQL 11:58:38 Zhivago: I don't blame it for my problem, but gave advice to Younder, as it is my personal opinion, that stuff he is writing has no target market, as the advanced series manipulation is mostly used in data mining and finance, where one deals with huge amount of data 11:59:51 you are free to think I'm an idiot who does not know what you talking about, from my side I see myself as a guy who already tried similar approach, seen in not working, and trying to save the other guy time 12:00:04 I don't think that. That's why I asked what you mean by it. 12:00:22 Your inability to say what you mean might indicate something. 12:00:42 Zhivago: by it I mean the type of series library that uses extensive uses of many little functions, currying, and closures 12:00:49 It's probably indicating that you're an idiot that does not know what you're talking about, but there are other explanations. 12:00:58 A severe head injury, for example. 12:01:09 maxm-: you see? 12:01:12 yup 12:01:23 maxm: So, nothing to do with functions, then? 12:07:11 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:55 you know Zhivago, sometimes you're a prime example of being an ignorant ass on irc. you should read the scrollbacks of some of your conversations in a few years time. 12:14:19 i wonder who it was recently who tried to convince other people that writing yet another lisp implementation is a worthwhile endeavor 12:14:43 "toy lisp implementation" 12:15:48 jdz: i've heard the statement before. if you enjoy writing it, it could be a good thing to have done. 12:16:15 -!- deMimsyPorp [~SirMimsy@static-50-43-23-71.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:22 madnificent: except now somebody is arguing the opposite direction 12:17:49 the logs of 2nd of march shold refresh the memory 12:17:53 should even 12:17:55 any sane arguments? 12:18:01 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:19:42 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-14-41.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:20:31 madnificent: check here: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/2012-03/lisp-2012.03.02.txt 12:21:10 madnificent: around 11:30 12:22:25 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:20e7:c199:fc70:2775] has joined #lisp 12:22:55 btw. shouldn't the topic/join-message mention the logs as per freenode policies? 12:26:36 ferada: if you're referring to the last point in http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml then i strongly disagree 12:26:54 jdz: why the hell was everyone bashisg wakeup? 12:27:11 madnificent: as far as i remember nobody was bashing him 12:27:23 i mean, there was no bashing going on 12:27:39 if there was bashing then, then maxm is now bashing Yonder 12:27:51 Incoherently. 12:27:53 jdz: really, from the start it seems that he just couldn't say a thing right, even though he doesn't actually say much wrong either (there's very little content in the text, or so it seems) 12:27:54 Younder i mean 12:28:25 jdz: um, i just meant that there should be a note that there are logs at some url 12:28:27 gravedigging is offtopic here, i hope 12:28:49 ferada: i remember it bing in the topic a while ago, dunno when it disappeared 12:29:01 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:29:20 jdz: i'm not opposed if you meant that, but if there are some, it should be mentioned 12:29:37 well, i found it by googling freenode lisp logs 12:29:42 yeah well :) 12:29:47 probably not worth wasting topic space 12:30:04 can't the join message be customized too? 12:31:58 jdz: i couldn't get more from it than "there are better ways to spend your time". but then again, that's often the case. 12:32:14 #lisp has been logged for a lot longer than that guideline has been on the channel guidelines page 12:32:50 jdz: I'm not bashing Younder I in fact very interested in what he is doing, and if he is successful in writing his library, that has a decent performance, i'll check it out and maybe use it. Just shared my expirience on doing similar stuff.. 12:33:15 why is that "I tried doing that, did not work" is considered bashing. 12:33:22 maxm-: sure thing, that's exactly what you saind and how it sounded like. 12:33:29 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:33:32 damn, i can't type 12:33:36 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:52 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:34:23 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:49 -!- pjb is now known as Guest24572 12:35:19 -!- Guest24572 is now known as pjb 12:40:34 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:58 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.177] has quit [Quit: home] 12:47:32 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 12:56:28 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:57:21 rme [~rme@50.43.136.254] has joined #lisp 12:57:40 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:58:22 -!- antonv [2e35c31b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.53.195.27] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:00:28 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.35.136] has joined #lisp 13:03:50 Gmind [~nevermind@123.16.226.83] has joined #lisp 13:03:50 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:04:02 ahoy mateys... 13:04:09 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:04:29 I'm going to be in a very particular setting for about a year to come where I'll have a job and some extra time to work - I know, it's unbelievable. 13:04:45 I was wondering how I would go about finding something to contribute to 13:05:11 Step 1: think of something fun to do Step 2: do it with CL 13:05:16 my obvious choice, really, is to contribute to sbcl, but I'm wondering if there 13:05:16 ' 13:05:27 s projects requiring love. 13:05:40 Xach: that's actually a good point =) 13:05:46 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:47 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:05:47 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 13:06:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:06:35 like you did ql? =) 13:07:04 I started by writing a program to rip CDs on 4 different computers 13:07:22 It was not very good, but it was something I wanted to do. 13:07:53 interesting. You mean you made the controller? 13:09:19 I wrote a CL program to coordinate running cdparanoia and lame across a few systems. 13:10:21 (you must be around my age! We seem to all have that problem of old cd's) 13:11:01 Anyway, I guess the point is to find something of interest or utility and stick with it. 13:11:11 That's a personal thing. 13:11:41 yes, I hear you 13:12:20 hmm, it's strange... i don't hear anything 13:12:32 I really wanted to make Flash movies with CL, and I found out that Flash doesn't support fonts directly - you have to convert fonts to curves to use them. So I got sidetracked into writing a truetype file parser that could do that. 13:12:41 Harag [~phil@196.215.161.139] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 And the truetype part is still around but I never did the flash stuff. 13:12:49 I rewrote a system to simulate a pilot's decision processes during instrumentation-only flight 13:13:29 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.241.124.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:13:38 dlowe: Do you fly? 13:13:41 my my. I just noticed that SBCL is now fully ported on osx 13:13:43 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF774C.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 13:14:03 Xach: no. it's on my bucket list. 13:14:53 i do low-level flights... on motorcycle; well, it's actually ground level fligths 13:15:44 dlowe: just do it. You might die next week. 13:16:04 jdz: we're all very impressed by your lack of restraint 13:16:10 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 13:16:20 ArmyOfBruce: can't. I've had the flu 13:16:31 dlowe: I just recently found out that for something like 30 hours of training, you can become licensed sail plane pilot. 13:16:32 anyway, I can't get a license in a week 13:16:36 hah 13:16:38 =) 13:16:42 :p 13:16:58 If I had 30 hours of free time, I'd be hacking 13:17:08 in any case, sail planes are cool. They're like U2 planes, without the thruster. 13:17:20 yes, I hear. 13:20:04 kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:23 Shaftoe: that's 30h+ in a year of just flight, and I'm not sure if that isn't *solo* time only 13:21:14 p_l: won't claim much. Just that it was my pilot friend who told me this, almost in an identical conversation where I Was saying I was not rich enough (time or money) to afford flying. 13:21:22 He said I'd be up in a week. 13:21:29 that said, good gliders cost 80k 13:21:33 + 13:21:49 so maybe he meant that I'd be accompanied, not sure. 13:22:04 Shaftoe: up in a week, yes. but you also need theory 13:22:47 getting licensed in a year isn't common unlike with PPL(A), because gliders depend a lot on local weather 13:24:03 I see. 13:24:10 you fly? 13:24:20 wouldn't paragliders be a lot more feasible? 13:24:32 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A5F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:25 I must comment that this channel has gotten much less high strung over the 2 years I've been frequenting it. 13:25:33 We'd have been impaled by now for not talking about CL. 13:25:52 Shaftoe: you're off topic. please come backe when you have something of value to say. 13:25:59 =) 13:26:10 that was my subtle cue to steer the ship back on track, yes. 13:26:10 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:26:19 Shaftoe: I did, haven't had time/money in last few years 13:26:44 pnq [~nick@ACA202AF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:51 p_l: amen. I know what you mean. 13:27:40 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:43 snearch [~snearch@g225078049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:56 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 13:28:47 hello. did anyone get commonqt working on sbcl or ccl under windows? I followed instructions on commonqt page, and I got it working only in lispworks. in sbcl and ccl repl just freezes when I call qt-tutorial-14:main 13:30:50 sezo: I remember seeing windows-y looking screenshots of CommonQt/{SB,C}CL apps. Unfortunately, I haven't used windows in a long while; if you're running in slime (with a threaded SBCL), it might be worth a try to call main from *inferior-lisp* instead of the SLIME REPL. 13:33:17 stasats have a fix for CCL/Mac that forces qt loop to run in the initial thread 13:33:24 maybe same fix is needed for windows? 13:34:40 same thing if I call it in inferior lisp. by the way CCL freezes on (#_exec (#_new QEventLoop)) call, SBCL on (make-qapplication) call 13:34:43 sezo: see (defun start-gui-thread) in repl-integration.lisp, and search for darwin 13:34:49 I'm trying to load clg-0.93 in sbcl-1.0.45.gentoo-r0 and I get this error: ASDF could not load gtk because Error while trying to load definition for system gtk from pathname /home/pjb/works/patchwork/src/clg-0.93/systems/gtk.asd: Lock on package SB-ALIEN violated when interning SHARED-OBJECT-FILE. 13:34:55 Should I unlock SB-ALIEN? 13:35:03 sezo: ok, then its not that.. No output or drop to ldb? 13:35:29 maxm- no it just freezes, even C-c C-c doesn't make REPL respond, I have to restart it 13:35:50 pjb: I think clg uses unexported internal functionality that changed. 13:36:02 pjb: you can unlock it, but I don't think that will solve the problem. 13:36:11 I'm afraid so. 13:36:34 well repl "freezing" is normal, since you app is running in the same thread.. You need to (require :qt-repl) and (qt-repl:start-gui-thread) to run Qt apps without freezing repl 13:37:56 sezo: try a few things from REPL without actually showing a window, and see if they work.. 1) (qt:ensure-smoke :qtcore) then (qt:ensure-smoke :qtgui) 13:38:38 maxm that worked in both sbcl and ccl. 13:38:42 sezo: then do (in-package :qt), then do (#_new QRect 1 2 3 4) 13:38:52 sezo: see if it responds with the # object 13:39:50 it does 13:40:05 next do (#_new QPushButton "blah") 13:41:08 Lisp connection closed unexpectedly, connection broken 13:41:29 hmm hold on I just tried reproducing this without starting gui thread, and had same thing 13:41:34 *maxm-* is on linux 13:43:45 repeat all that, then do (#_QCoreApplication::instance) should print # 13:45:17 then do (%make-qapplication '("blah")) 13:45:38 all worked so far (I'm testing on CCL right now) 13:45:50 # 13:45:52 #("blah") 13:46:26 repeat (#_QCoreApplication::instance) now should be returning same instance 13:46:40 it does 13:47:05 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 13:47:42 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:47:58 Shaftoe: one possible thing to help with (albeit perhaps only tangentially lispy) would be to come up with some solution for the project lists in common-lisp.net. You could even use hunchentoot or something like that. 13:48:03 moment of truth now: (let ((b (#_new QDialog))) (#_exec b)) 13:48:19 should show a dialog window (while repl is frozen), that you should be able to close with close button 13:48:41 -!- Harag [~phil@196.215.161.139] has left #lisp 13:48:46 I have no dialog window 13:48:57 and repl is frozen right? 13:49:03 yes 13:49:13 anyway you can break CCL to see the call stack as to where its stuck? 13:49:22 also this is from cmdline, with only 1 thread? 13:49:43 I am doing it from slime. i can't break CCL 13:50:09 can you try same thing (just put it into a file like blah.lisp, and then just run ccl from cmdline, and do (load "blah.lisp") 13:50:14 sure 13:50:21 that will tell us if its initial thread thing, or something else 13:51:10 prxq: you mean the listings/ 13:51:16 ? 13:51:48 prxq: let me rephrase: what is the problem to solve? 13:52:26 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:54:03 this is odd. when I do it from command line I get this when calling (#_new QRect 1 2 3 4) : Error: Foreign function not found: WIN32::|new| 13:54:07 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:54:23 pjb: "19:35:42 (decf Hexstream) ; for leaving without waiting for an answer." <-- I waited 5 minutes! And I read the logs religiously anyway, so you can just post your answer anytime and I'll eventually get back to you if I have a reply. 13:54:28 "19:38:48 If you don't like (format t "~{~A~}~%" list), write: (format t (seq (list (outc)) (nl)) list) instead." <-- That's not really an improvement, overall. It's not something that I'd want to read or write. 13:54:37 it returned rectangle when I did it from slime 13:55:33 -!- udzinari is now known as nyquist` 13:56:23 can anyone hint how to enable tab completion like in slime repl when editing source files? 13:56:33 let me see what's causing this 13:56:33 C-c TAB 13:57:27 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 13:57:28 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:57 Hexstream: thanks, desc-func slime-comp-sym did not mention it :/ 13:57:58 sezo: you probably forgot (ensure-smoke) things 13:57:58 *Xach* uses C-c C-i, which is equivalent but easier for him to type 13:58:21 someone does not have caps lock to tab remapping 13:58:51 err I confused it with ctrl.. /me is extra confused in the mornings 13:59:06 btw, about C-c Tab 13:59:34 how to select one of the suggested completion, without moving hand to mouse, or typeing C-o, C-n, C-n, C-n, Enter? 13:59:57 sezo: if you stuck, there is a way to test our theory from slime too 13:59:57 antonv: Just type enough and complete again? 14:00:01 (I mean C-x-o, i.e. moving to another buffer) 14:00:03 nyquist`: you can bind slime-fuzzy-indent-and-complete-symbol to tab fairly easily 14:00:39 I am stuck, I typed ensure-smoke in both slime and command line. not sure why there's a difference 14:00:56 ok, we need to find out how to get the "initial lisp thread" on ccl 14:01:16 oGMo: only for lisp mode right? will it not mess up things for other stuff that might use tab? 14:01:39 about slime-fuzzy completion 14:01:44 nyquist`: well i do it on the slime-mode-hook but yes, use local-set-key, not global-set-key 14:01:52 I usually use it (C-c M-i) 14:01:53 then you do the dialog _exec call inside that thread, by doing (bt:interrupt-thread (initial-thread) (lambda () ...the let form with the QDialog and _exec)) 14:02:37 but what is inconvenient, when I select right completion and press Enter, it does both things: completes the symbol and adds a newline 14:02:48 does anyone know how to avoid the newline? 14:03:13 space 14:03:38 oGMo: great! 14:03:45 antonv: I think you'd greatly benefit from learning touchtyping. 14:04:04 sezo: ok, here we go.. Repeat everything in Slime up to the point before doing the dialog thing.. then do (find "Initial" (bt:all-threads) :test 'equal :key 'bt:thread-name) 14:04:11 antonv: actually even just tab again 14:04:16 Hexstream: what it is? typing blindly? I doit for years 14:04:22 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:04:35 antonv: Hum. You type with 10 fingers? 14:04:41 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:41 sezo: then do (bt:interrupt-thread * (lambda () (let ((b (#_new QDialog))) (#_exec b)))) 14:04:47 yes 14:04:54 maxm ok moment 14:05:02 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:18 Ah, weird. I was sure I had noticed "typing lag" in your answers. 14:05:28 sezo: actually in fact thing you have to try if that does not work, is doing entire thing in that initial thread... Ie put all of the code into (defun test-my-stuff), then run it inside the initial thread 14:06:08 oGMo: tried Tab again, also pleasant 14:06:37 sezo: you can use ccl::*initial-lisp-thread* instead of the (find...) 14:06:51 And I can't imagine a touchtypist actually clicking on completions with the mouse instead of just typing it out or typing some more and completing again. 14:07:40 oGMo: thanks, rebinding it to tab makes sense for my muscle memory, somwhat new to emacs :) 14:08:05 maxm ok, I just got nil returned now when calling (bt:interrupt-thread ...) 14:08:08 nyquist`: yeah 14:08:30 let me paste what I did and what result I got 14:08:33 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 14:08:57 Hexstream: don't know about typing lag (probably because of laptop keyboard, or because I am choosing english words), as for the mouse, it's just and example, my real problem was that I pressed Enter, and then deleted then newline with backspace 14:09:39 Can't imagine a touchtyping giving "clicking on completions with the mouse" as an example. ;P 14:09:46 touchtypist* 14:09:47 antonv: do you use fuzzy complete? much less typing 14:09:50 sezo: i'd suggest ccl::call-in-initial-process instead of bt:interrupt-thread 14:09:59 sezo: and no dialog appeared? maybe you missing it, it may be very small (just the titlebar) check top left corner of screen 14:10:16 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:10:44 nyquist`: yes, i use fuzzy (I even did't know about non-fuzzy untill recently) 14:11:16 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:20 maxm- there is no dialog. http://paste.lisp.org/display/128621 14:11:21 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:20e7:c199:fc70:2775] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:11:21 sezo: redo with (ccl::call-in-initial-process #'test-my-stuff) instead of interrupt-thread as jdz suggesting... If that fails, then I'm out of ideas you can try in lisp 14:12:08 next thing I would do is try to attach debugger (after the ensure smoke calls), and try setting breakpoint in QEventLoop::run or whatever it uses 14:12:16 having qt compiled from source with debug info would help 14:13:45 optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has joined #lisp 14:14:12 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 14:14:26 (ccl::call-in-initial-process 'test) made the repl freeze, still no dialog. I made the rectangle larger so I don't miss it, but it wasn't there 14:14:46 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:15:16 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15:21 I redid all the steps in SBCL too by the way, it froze at (%make-qapplication '("blah")). hopefuly I could get it working with something other than lispworks 14:16:06 I'll try setting breakpoints as you suggested 14:16:25 antonv: And also calling touchtyping "typing blindly" is pretty ridiculous, since it greatly increases your vision, you can actually see what you're typing and correcting mistakes as you go, and if there's other information appearing on the screen you can see it right away. It's typing while looking down at the keyboard that's typing blind... 14:16:33 sezo: well sorry, maybe stasats when he'll be on will have some ideas. I don't have working windows box with debuggers and stuff installed right now 14:16:40 I am very impressed with sbcl's progress on osx. this didn't take a year. 14:16:40 Hexstream: the exampel about mouse because every time I deleted new newline after pressing Enter I was wondering: "How it is supposed to work? Cat it be designed for *mouse*?" 14:17:13 that's ok, thanks for trying to help. 14:17:17 Hexstream: so, what is the conclusion? 14:17:18 Xach: Did the blog pop-up unduly again, or this time only with the correct article? 14:17:32 antonv: Isn't it obvious? Just go learn touchtyping right now. 14:19:03 It's a great investment. Seriously. I actually learned touchtyping just a few years ago (when I was ~21), and now I just don't understand how I could function before then. 14:19:31 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:08 is there still a fund drive for SBCL? 14:20:16 optikalmouse: Not currently. 14:20:28 Hexstream: ok I'll save my cash and donate later then I guess.. 14:21:28 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 14:22:12 Hexstream: I'm sure they'd appreciate it anyway? 14:22:23 Neronus: only one showed up 14:22:34 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 14:23:45 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@123.16.226.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:24:16 loke: true, they were using paypal to accept donations or something else? 14:24:17 loke: He asked if there was a fund drive. I answered the question. I don't know if the SBCL project accepts donations anytime, I can't find anything about that on sbcl.org. 14:24:28 optikalmouse: Indiegogo. 14:25:00 I was sure there was something like that, paypal or whatever 14:25:14 Otherwise, you can always donate to QL. That's what I do. 14:25:26 loke: ask on #sbcl? 14:25:57 wow I got it working on CCL. 14:26:25 I'm asking on #sbcl, next topic! :p 14:26:59 sezo what was it? 14:27:03 I called my own old winapi code that creates a window first, and when calling (qt-tutorial-14:main) after, the window appeared 14:27:12 cool 14:27:53 I think I know what is causing this behavior too. moment 14:29:00 abby_j [~caesar@199.167.199.145] has joined #lisp 14:29:01 dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 14:30:12 hello there, im just starting to learn lisp and wondered if there is any texts that explains how to optimize lisp ? just read Gabriels Good News Bad News, with the examples of correct implementation - i have the siebel pdf and is chewing through that one 14:30:40 dropster: what do you mean by optimise? 14:30:42 dropster: profiling and disassemble 14:30:47 Siebel *pdf*?... PCL is available online in HTML form, btw. 14:31:00 For free and legally. 14:31:13 dropster: http://www.artfulcode.net/articles/profiling-lisp-application/ 14:31:36 i think its called practical common lisp 14:31:39 from his website 14:31:40 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:31:48 dropster: what are you trying to optimize and why? 14:31:54 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has left #lisp 14:31:58 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 14:32:12 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:32:21 a very simple chess program 14:32:35 which im trying to write in lisp 14:32:40 as a learning experience 14:32:43 dropster: you write it first 14:32:47 dropster: Paradigms of AI Programming has info about profiling and tuning 14:32:59 once it works, you can profile and decide if you need to optimise 14:33:39 yea sections on memoization and caching in paip book are worth reading 14:33:59 hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:05 don't worry about profiling and optimization, worry about that once the program works and then profile it and find the bottlenecks and then optimize. 14:34:21 *maxm-* found the easiest solution to caching is saving large chunks of your memoized caches with cl-store 14:34:39 same can be done by making lisp images too 14:34:56 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:14 but cl-store solution can be more fine-grained, as you can save data relevant to particular test case, that otherwise will take days to generate 14:35:24 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 14:35:45 maxm ok so the first call to ShowWindow (winapi function) is using startup info of the process, and the passed argument is ignored. that's why the first created window is not visible. not sure why ccl process has that flag set to hidden (maybe because it's a console program). hopefully there's a way to fix this without having to directly call ShowWindow myself once at start up 14:36:23 -!- kanru`` is now known as k3u 14:36:24 ok thx 14:36:27 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 14:36:28 -!- dropster [~Kim@port284.ds1-oebr.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #lisp 14:36:31 shizzy0 [~user@c-24-91-161-73.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:32 Ok, so let's say I make enumerators for various structures. So I have (:enum list), (:enum :alist), (:enum hash-table), etc. How should I call an enumerator that acts a bit like mapl? (:enum list-conses)? (:enum list-body)? (:enum cons-list)?... 14:36:38 sunwukon` [~vukung@t1.iit.bme.hu] has joined #lisp 14:37:18 -!- k3u is now known as kanru`` 14:37:32 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733]] 14:37:36 sezo: doh! I probably debugged similar problem around 7 years ago, completely forgot about it 14:38:00 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128179182.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:25 sezo: instead of exec, do #_show, then #_show again 14:38:36 I got bitten by this some years ago too 14:38:39 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA202AF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:38:41 sezo: also to really work with commonqt, I recommend using :qt-repl package 14:38:52 Question re: style. I'm writing a database client and I'm sorely tempted to write it in a completely functional style. To me, lisp newb that I am, that means no 'setq', no modification of state or environment, etc. and do all connections wrapped in '(with-db-connection (with-select-pool ... )' .. The question is: is that acceptable, generally? or do most lispers see that and say "oh, not another haskeller coming to lisp..." 14:39:27 sezo: it runs qt event loop in its own thread, and passes every REPL evalutaion into that thread.. IMHO that is what makes development so much easier, as you can work in repl, and do (_exec, _show) etc on actual gui stuff, without blocking 14:39:27 hydo: Don't use SETQ regardless. Use SETF. 14:39:42 -!- Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:39:47 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ijbujilblsgmjvbj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:04 Hexstream: oo! ok, thanks. I see setq everywhere, but I believe you. 14:40:13 X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 14:40:15 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@t1.iit.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:40:21 *hydo* looks up the difference... 14:40:29 hydo: Everywhere you see SETQ is fairly old and probably obsolete. 14:40:39 Hexstream: not really 14:41:03 Hexstream: some people use SETQ intentionally, to communicate that they indent to just set a variable 14:41:09 edi says he uses setq because it sometimes is the most specific operator 14:41:23 exactly 14:41:44 Hexstream: cdrs probably 14:42:24 But with SETQ you still have to wonder if it's a variable or a symbol-macro you're setting, so what's the point. ;P 14:42:31 lisp band name: Edi Weitz and the Jedi Knights 14:42:52 hehe 14:42:59 maxm-: Thanks, now I think I found the answer: list-tails. 14:43:33 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314164.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:43:34 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:43:51 hydo: use the right tool for the job. whenever a functional style makes sense, it's generally not bad. but if something becomes overly verbose in a functional style, you shouldn't shun something with state either. for some tasks using CLOS can be really handy (and in some rare cases you can use it to just configure some functionality as well, still staying mostly functional). 14:43:53 maxm- great, works fine if I call #_show twice :). 14:43:58 ok, I'm just going to go on the assumption that no one will really care about the '(with-connect (with-select-pool .. ))' 14:43:59 rme_ [~rme@50.43.143.147] has joined #lisp 14:44:09 -!- rme [rme@925CAFE6.4F96F671.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 14:44:10 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 14:44:16 sezo: i would try to ask about startup info thing on #qt 14:44:19 I'll check out qt-repl too, thanks 14:44:34 madnificent: that makes sense. I guess I should read up on clos. 14:44:44 In some cases it's really convenient to use functional style for interprocedural and imperative for intraprocedural. 14:44:46 sezo: or googling "startupinfo qt console app" or such 14:44:58 yes I'll give it try 14:45:18 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.136.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:18 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 14:45:31 hydo: you should! it takes a while to wrap your head around it if you're accustomed to more traditional systems (though haskell has some nice features too iirc). so you probably wont be using it optimally from the start. 14:46:19 Where's a good place to, once the client is finished, post it and say "Here, real lispers, tear it apart. Tell me where I'm being dumb, please." 14:46:30 paste.lisp.org 14:46:36 perfect. 14:46:47 Well, github for whole projects. 14:46:48 Thanks, everyone. 14:46:55 hydo: posting snippets of your code on paste.lisp.org is generally a good idea, i wouldn't dump a complete project on it though. unless it's really tiny 14:46:56 yea, all of my stuff goes there. 14:47:04 incf Hexstream, apparently 14:47:08 err re: github 14:47:46 hydo: there's some other code review sites as well 14:48:00 hydo: http://refactormycode.com/ 14:48:03 happy i got it working finally. being able to create gui on the fly without restarting program is what I dreamed about ever since i got into lisp (like 2 months ago) 14:48:22 optikalmouse: oh! nice... I didn't know about that. Thanks! 14:48:50 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 14:49:00 sezo what library are you using? 14:49:09 optikalmouse: It doesn't seem to have a CL-specific section. Good CL is different than good whatever-other-lisp-dialect... 14:49:11 common qt 14:49:24 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has left #lisp 14:49:30 also, I feel compelled to point out what's probably completely obvious to everyone here: drakma + cl-json = dynamic duo of http json requests. holy crap that was easy. 14:49:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:58 ok, back to lurking. 14:50:04 hydo: i prefer jsown (shameless self-promoting) 14:50:21 hydo: Agree 14:50:35 hydo: And on top of that a few macros to do authentication and stuff easy 14:50:37 i recently bumped into a problem with cl-json: apparently it cannot encode some of the json it can decode 14:50:40 madnificent: looking it up now... :) 14:50:51 which is a no-no for such a library 14:51:28 *loke* has been using HTML-TEMPLATE recently, but being a bit frustrated by some of its limitations (and the somewhat obscene syntax). I'm considering writing my own, but I'd rather not, in case there are other alternatives that I don't know about. Is there? 14:51:34 madnificent: !!! yes! very nice. I can drop my nested (assoc s 14:51:50 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 14:51:54 refactor time.. 14:52:15 hydo: if something doesn't work correctly, shout at me or pm me. sykopomp has used it for a while, i guess it's sane. 14:52:40 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:52:44 madnificent: will do. 14:53:20 loke: i'm working on sexml which reads a dtd and publishes functions for emitting the xml. it's configurable and extensible (through ContextL). not everything is fleshed otu but so far it seems to be realtively simple to edit things (though generating macro's can be a pita). 14:53:22 well, there is also st-json 14:53:30 madnificent: I'm using CL-JSON in CL-GDATA. Should I change to yours? 14:53:35 yeah, and YASON 14:53:47 loke: no, change to YASON 14:53:50 :) 14:54:03 json libraries are the personal utility libraries of the 2010s 14:54:17 I don't use it much, since most of GData supports Atom, which is what I'm using. However, their Calendar AI's are JSON-only. 14:54:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:54 loke: jsown is fast for parsing json objects. especially when you know what keys you need to have from the presentation. if that's your use case than it may make sense. i like the interface myself, but that's obviously up to appreciation. if you're happy with cl-json and it's not a bottleneck, i don't know if i see a reason to change. 14:54:56 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:23 * jsow was built on request, i didn't actually need it myself 14:55:39 madnificent: I'm not actively working on the Calendar parts right now, so I'll read up on and test your library. Then I'll change if needed. 14:55:44 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:47 Thanks for the information 14:56:03 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:56:16 you're welcome. feel free to ask if you're in doubt. but again, if cl-json is doing what you want it to do, and it all works... i'd try to spend my time on something that matters. 14:57:00 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:57:22 By the way, please help me out here. As you know, the most difficult part of programming is naming things. I'm about to add Google+ support in CL-GDATA, and I need to know... What the hell should the package name be? googleplus:, gplus:, google+:, g+:, or what? 14:57:28 but remember: cl-json will come to bite you in the back 14:58:16 jdz: CL-JSON bit me a bit in the back in a different project. I had to change the decoder, since I didn't want to decode keys into keywords when the data is unverified. 14:58:20 -!- rme [rme@4BDE6233.DEB6CE53.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 14:58:26 For GData, that's not a problem. 14:58:58 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.143.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:59:15 google advertises it as g+, i personally wouldn't mind seeing that. but others *cough* H4ns *cough* have more experience. 14:59:56 com.google.plus? 14:59:56 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:07 madnificent: ? 15:00:19 dlowe: that would suggest it being an official Google implementation, which it is not 15:00:32 I suppose 15:00:56 H4ns: you tend to criticize little thingse, with good reason, and have used lisp longer than i have. i'd therefore value your naming choice more than mine. 15:01:14 madnificent: "g+" is not a name 15:01:17 :) 15:01:39 it could be a package name 15:01:46 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:01:52 I think googleplus is possibly the best, since it's very clear. I could add a package alias to g+ 15:02:18 *madnificent* wants a decent library for package local nicknames 15:02:39 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:00 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:08 Shaftoe: that'd be a real great thing to tackle 15:04:23 H4ns: which? 15:04:23 Shaftoe: package local nicknames for all implementations. 15:04:31 fsvo "all" 15:04:48 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 15:05:27 H4ns: is this regarding prxq's comment? 15:05:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:49 my inclination is that you would have to reach far enough into the implementation that it would be difficult to have as a "library" 15:05:51 (oh. I just realized you guys might have been haivng a conversation in the interim. I'll catch up on what has been said) 15:06:23 Shaftoe: no. wasn't it you who asked for a task earlier? if not, i'm sorry 15:06:36 you'd have to change the package representation to include a mapping between global and local package names 15:06:42 dlowe: right. that is what makes it a little complicated. 15:06:44 Substitute-if would be more readable if first and second arguments are substituted (substitute-if 0 #'oddp '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)) => (substitute-if #'oddp 0 '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)) 15:07:01 and you'd have to change the reader to intern things into the appropriate package 15:07:09 dlowe: but it is absolutely doable, and it is not even very hard, at least from looking at ccl and sbcl. 15:07:20 -!- nyquist` [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:21 yeah, I don't think it'd be hard for any given implementation 15:08:09 you'd really want the changes in the mainline branches, though 15:08:10 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:26 jasox: write your own macro: (my:substitute :by 0 :if oddp :in list) 15:08:31 H4ns: catch up, done. I'll pay attention to any ideas that get thrown around as I'm not really sure how I'd even start doing such a thing 15:09:08 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 15:09:11 Shaftoe: there is https://github.com/3b/package-local-nicknames for starters 15:09:41 Shaftoe: on sykopomps fork, there is a proof of concept implementation for ccl 15:10:14 H4ns: yay. This is actually the kind of thing I was looking for! 15:10:25 Shaftoe: \o/ 15:10:30 I have a caveat right away though: my free time is starting september. 15:10:31 =) 15:10:39 /o\ 15:10:53 but I'm definitely looking it now unless someone's pants are on fire, it shouldn't be a big deal =) 15:11:03 is anyone's pants on fire? 15:11:13 my pants are cool 15:11:48 good 15:12:21 yes, but it's unrelated to lisp. 15:13:14 dlowe: please accept my sincere apology 15:13:32 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225078049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:13:45 *Neronus* also votes for package local nicknames 15:13:54 joast [~rick@98.145.85.206] has joined #lisp 15:14:28 *Neronus* is also willing to help out, if needed 15:14:39 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:48 Ich will ein paper aus Sprachgruenden ablehnen. Ich kanns zwar verstehen, aber die schlechte Sprache ist schon offensive (hab das Deutsche Wort vergessen) 15:16:51 damn 15:16:55 sorry about that 15:17:05 Auf Englisch SVP! 15:17:12 !! 15:17:15 Tack! 15:18:11 echo-area [~user@123.120.234.195] has joined #lisp 15:18:56 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.16.88] has joined #lisp 15:19:16 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 15:19:43 ha, and google translate is not very helpful. 15:20:59 alright, that package-local-nicknames is large enought hat my brain will require serious study 15:21:06 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:21:37 Man, I really wish I had time to write up my toy package system. I think it would help people understand issues like this more easily. 15:21:58 Xach: is it in quicklisp? 15:22:14 pjb: No. 15:22:23 Perhaps that's why nobody knows it? 15:22:40 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 15:22:54 *H4ns* fails to resolve "it" 15:23:06 zpack.lisp 15:23:14 can you answer me this naive question: is this entirely about the reader, or are there things that packages encapsulate that I should know about? any computer'y stuffs. 15:23:27 The later. 15:23:39 pjb: I think nobody knows it because I haven't written about it. 15:23:46 Not as much as I would like to write about it. 15:23:56 Code without exposition is less useful than code with. 15:24:03 Shaftoe: start from CL:FIND-SYMBOL 15:24:10 You wrote about it in #lisp :-) 15:24:12 roger roger 15:24:13 I wonder if it would be possible to get slime argument hints work with commonqt macros (#_exec etc) 15:24:16 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 15:24:46 http://xach.com/lisp/zpack.lisp is the code sans exposition 15:25:29 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:13 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:23 By the way of slime, if we get package-local-nicknames running, then it also has to work with slime 15:27:11 hmm, I guess I didn't cover nicknames at all. 15:28:48 if you adjust the reader, then couldn't the reader translate anything with a local prefix? why wouldn't that be possible within the standard? 15:29:08 madnificent: you'd just have to adjust find-symbol. 15:29:23 find-package I mean. 15:29:46 point taken 15:31:06 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:31:15 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:31:45 does printing ever use package nicknames, though? 15:32:43 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 15:32:52 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:34:20 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:34:29 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:34:39 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:42 22.1.3.3.1 would seem to suggest otherwise 15:35:27 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:36:35 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:49 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.41.65] has joined #lisp 15:38:20 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.129] has joined #lisp 15:38:24 dlowe: yes, I never saw an implementation printing a nickname as package prefix. You have to print the symbols yourself to choose amongst the nicknames which one you want (often the shortest). 15:38:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.41.65] has left #lisp 15:43:52 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 15:44:28 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:44:44 out of curiosity, how heterogenous is your runtime environments on a daily basis? 15:45:06 (implementations) 15:45:08 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:45:23 *H4ns* uses sbcl, ccl, allegro on macos, freebsd, linux more or less regularly 15:46:16 out of necessity? or choice? (i.e. is it for different products you work on? or are you doingit because you want to have multiple implementations to test on?) 15:46:41 *dlowe* pretty much only uses sbcl 15:46:52 i have some non-portable code (allegro), and some applications deployed on ccl and sbcl 15:47:49 I too pretty much only use sbcl. I gotta get out of that habit, me thinks. 15:48:38 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-120.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:50 For development I usually use SBCL and sometimes CCL. The blog runs on SBCL 15:48:59 I'm thinking CCL looks like a nice implementation to target? 15:49:11 why are you all using so many of them? 15:49:18 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:49:25 hipster cred. 15:49:43 *Neronus* thinks he should get his CCL a fixie 15:49:47 lol 15:50:14 dim: Curiousity, urge to play and its good to know. Also: why not? :) 15:50:21 well, dim, sbcl works great for my problem space, so already you and I diverge. 15:50:40 so when time comes to do stuff on the core workings, I guess you need the hipster bike or else you're out of luck 15:50:41 dim: different speeds, different proprietary features 15:51:11 (which is exactly what I'm reluctantly coming to grips with =) 15:51:30 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:51:36 dim: The extensions to the standard provided by a specific implementation usually drive it's use. 15:52:06 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:07 yeah, but you're really having to choose another implementation for each different proejct you're working on?! 15:52:16 dim: no. 15:52:42 ok good 15:52:47 dim: No, there are libraries that provide compatibility across implementations, but in specific cases, you may want to use implementation specific features. 15:52:50 dim: it is about "choice". if you have some issue with one implementation for some reason, you may find that another one does not have it. 15:52:53 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-396206.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:53:03 it's quite strange to understand that part of hacking in Common Lisp, really, the implementation dance 15:53:16 dim: It's really a non-issue most of the time. 15:53:17 (and the packaging and the systems building too) 15:54:05 NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.14.209] has joined #lisp 15:54:10 H4ns: so we're missing an implementation with all interesting features? :) 15:54:11 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:54:21 dim: no. 15:54:24 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:54:47 I guess I understand the choice thing, like FreeBSD/Linux etc, what I don't get is that often people that pick FreeBSD won't just run Linux for the next project 15:54:50 it's kind of like building your project with both clang and gcc 15:55:11 dim: that is because linux is teh sux 15:55:27 hehe, I kind of expected an answer like that :) 15:55:31 Hi. I'm trying to use cffi. (cffi:defcvar "errno" :int) (setf *errno* 1) gets me to `Trying to access undefined foreign variable "errno".' What am I doing wrong? http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/defcvar.html 15:55:35 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:56:02 dim: There is a fair amount of feature overlap between the implementations, but the specific "implementation" of a feature varies and consequently appeals to different people. 15:56:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:56:21 let's take an exemple 15:56:28 I want to start with CCL for various reasons 15:56:39 dim: well, you can't swap from FreeBSD to Linux by passing a different prefix argument to M-x slime 15:56:57 I also want to use threading (subprocesses would be better but well, that's only because I don't understand lisp threading enough I guess) 15:57:15 should I use CCL specific threading or bordeaux-thread 15:57:18 what would you do? 15:57:29 milanj [~milanj_@212-200-192-196.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:57:32 NeedMoreDesu: have you loaded any foreign libraries? you may need to before accessing things defined in libc, but i'm not sure 15:57:59 NeedMoreDesu: that probably isn't going to work; errno isn't necessarily a normal variable. 15:58:10 Vivitron: apparently you need to invest a fair amount of effort to have code that runs more than one CL implementation 15:58:12 If the features provided by bordeaux-threads is all you needs, use bordeaux-threads 15:58:31 s/needs/need/ 15:58:43 well I don't know yet, I've not written the code :) 15:58:51 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:51 dim: My approach would be to start with bordeaux-threads and then switch to CCL specific threads if there was a compelling reason. 15:59:07 Hm, so their example is wrong? 15:59:23 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 15:59:26 hefner: it works according to the cffi manual, and i can confirm it works here 15:59:28 seriously I have limited needs: more than one active code path at a time, worker model, the "controler" (main thread) has to send out lots of data to the workers 15:59:50 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.203] has joined #lisp 16:00:01 so I need an efficient communication mechanism, I would use a unix pipe or a socket, each thread having its own stdin, which I don't know yet 16:00:08 (sorry for this phrasing) 16:00:13 *dim* is tired 16:00:15 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:29 ok so bordeaux-threads, fair enough 16:00:46 If you want to communicate via pipe or sockets, then don't use threads at all. Use threads only if you intend to use shared memory. IMHO, of course 16:00:46 hmm, works on my linux box. 16:00:49 I really do need to understand libs and dependency management then :) 16:00:50 (cffi:foreign-funcall "strerror" :int *errno* :string) don't work either with same error. What am I supposed to do? 16:01:28 Neronus: what facilities would you use for multi processes? it seems threads is what is easier to use in lisp... 16:01:32 ..works on my mac too. 16:01:35 also, pipe on windows/ 16:01:55 NeedMoreDesu: what operating system are you using? 16:01:57 dim: Ah, it was you who said pipes :) 16:02:10 I know I know 16:02:22 win32 16:02:33 that was easier to explain what I want to achieve 16:02:37 oh, hah. 16:02:42 good luck. 16:02:43 and sbcl 16:03:14 I want to target linux, mac and windows, so I though threads and their IPC would make it easier 16:03:19 dim: If you don't need shared memory, I think I would try sockets and separate processes. Sockets should even work on windows. Though I don't know how IPC works on windows 16:03:38 sockets. So I need another non-standard facility, right? 16:03:44 Threads don't have IPC. They are in one process, after all :) 16:03:57 CCL comes with BSD sockets, but you would tell me to use this lib I've forgotten the name of, right? 16:04:03 yes 16:04:29 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:58 http://www.cliki.net/usocket right? 16:05:11 yupp. 16:05:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.109.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:05:47 do you happen to know about postmodern (PG socket driver)? 16:06:12 it seems not to support COPY TO which I need 16:06:18 I don't happen to know, sorry 16:06:33 np, you've already been helpful 16:06:47 If you use threads, just use locks and shared memory. 16:06:54 I was going to lazily just use the CCL provided features and now I have some more headaches to figure out :) 16:07:21 shared memory == *dynamic* bindings, or something more involved? 16:07:35 NeedMoreDesu: try something like (cffi:defcfun _errno (:pointer :int)) 16:07:58 dim: That depends solely on how you implement it 16:07:58 NeedMoreDesu: load libc! 16:08:24 heh, you have to load the C library? :) 16:09:06 rme [~rme@50.43.142.109] has joined #lisp 16:09:11 if he can't find strerror then it sounds like it 16:09:59 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:09:59 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 16:09:59 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:10:09 if you want to have error, strerror etc, then yes, as they stem from libc. 16:10:09 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-tgrqhwrjgweezwjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:10:50 dim: I hope you know how to implement something moderately complicated with threads. I sure don't and try to avoid them if I can. The essence of course is: minimize sharing. 16:11:55 NeedMoreDesu: what lisp is this? 16:12:20 Neronus: yeah, that's why I would prefer pipes/sockets for internal communication here, no need to share anything 16:12:25 oGMo: it's not that error, that I can't find `strerror'. It's about incoming arg. (cffi:defcfun _errno :int) (cffi:foreign-funcall "strerror" :int (_errno) :string) IS working. 16:12:28 and what platform .. linux with sbcl doesn't seem to require it, but it's already dynlinking libc 16:12:34 also I was doing Erlang 10 years ago, so sharing data, mmm, not for me 16:13:00 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:13:02 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@p5081B773.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:47 NeedMoreDesu: ahh 16:13:50 Neronus: I could share a stream between threads, I guess that would be the lispy equivalent here 16:13:54 How can I work with defined foreign variables? 16:14:25 dim: I'm not so sure that that works portably with threads. What happens if one process reads from the stream while the other process writes? 16:14:43 according to the manual, "Note that accessing errno this way won't work with every implementation of the C standard library." 16:14:46 dim: You can of course lock the stream. Then I Guess it works. With capital G 16:14:51 oGMo: maybe you could have a look at ECL which is made for mixing C and CL? 16:15:02 but windows also knows pipes according to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa365574%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#base.using_pipes_for_ipc 16:15:21 Neronus: you declare their existence to the FFI library and type the corresponding lisp-side name (a symbol). 16:15:24 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:39 I'm not sure about that being reliable given that PostgreSQL implements pipes on windows using sockets 16:15:44 maybe what windows lack is named pipe 16:15:54 and I don't think I'm going to need that, come to think of it 16:16:03 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:16:05 this "same hierarchy" constraint should run fine 16:16:06 Shaftoe: the problem to solve is that the project listings look awful, are not really searchable, etc. 16:16:08 well, will see 16:16:10 Then you only need to write a cffi-wrapper for pipes on unix and windows with a common interface for both and you are good to go :) 16:16:34 or use socket and be sure to use AF_UNIX sockets when available 16:16:37 pkhuong: I guess you meant NeedMoreDesu, right? 16:16:42 prxq: that's actually up my alley. I can give it a go. 16:16:43 AFAIK unix domain socket ~= pipes 16:17:09 Most implementations already have extensions for using pipes, at least SBCL and LispWorks do. 16:17:20 If you spend all your time writing wrappers for this and that, you never have any time to write your actual program. 16:17:21 Neronus: right. 16:17:24 Shaftoe: that would be absolutely great 16:17:26 CFFI not required at all. 16:17:39 or like that. That sounds portable. But it is out of my expertise :) 16:17:58 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:16 ThomasH: If CCL supports them on windows, then it works for him. He has to write "trivial-pipes", though :) 16:18:27 ok, not "has to" 16:18:49 pkhuong: so why this is error, then? (cffi:defcvar nya :int) (setf nya 0) `Trying to access undefined foreign variable "nya".' 16:18:52 prxq: who runs/hosts/manages it now? I see drewc's email associated witht he domain 16:19:13 ah, bordeaux-threads knows conditions. Then you can make your own in-process pipes :) 16:20:02 ccl has file-socket-stream (unix domain sockets) but I don't see pipes 16:20:52 NeedMoreDesu: is there such an (extern) variable in the environment? I don't know of any library with a variable named "nya". 16:20:56 prxq: The Co-op, it would seem. Ok. 16:21:18 dim: Look at run-program, although now that I look at it, I'm not sure it really applies here. 16:21:19 prxq: do you speak out of some type of consensus when you say this needs to be reorganized a bit? 16:21:20 I see ccl::pipe, but it's not exported and I don't know what it does 16:22:03 dim: ThomasH may be on the right track. Do the works only need to listen, or do they have to talk back to the master? 16:22:08 I will have to test file-socket-stream on windows, if that works I'd use that, or the usocket equivalent maybe 16:22:15 works=workers 16:22:25 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:22:34 workers don't need to talk to the master apart from letting it know they're done 16:22:44 They can do that by dying 16:22:48 of course some dynamic monitoring and work queue resizing would be good too 16:26:01 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:01 16:26:01 -!- names: ccl-logbot Kron_ [SLB] rme jacius kpreid wishbone4 milanj quazimodo NeedMoreDesu kilon Bike sykopomp YokYok ISF Spion_ realitygrill tomodo nanoc blitz_ tensorpudding echo-area joast kmcorbett wbooze jasox brandonz superjudge metaphysician albacker X-Scale sunwukon` shizzy0 dl tychoish hydo McMAGIC--Copy abby_j totzeit optikalmouse Vivitron hefner _schulte_ Yuuhi kanru`` phax LiamH Shaftoe leo2007 add^_ DGASAU pjb theos ainm mathrick gravicappa sawgij 16:26:01 -!- names: Matt_S_G gz Younder fe[nl]ix xan_ m7w mensch jsnell asvil` ezakimak schmx mishoo prxq teggi ferada mrSpec stlifey ivan-kanis anonus mel0on angavrilov benny superflit yroeht pspace acieroid dmiles_afk ianmcorvidae Buglouse billstclair Cosman246 robot-beethoven rvirding Kyril araujo alvis` Ralith Nisstyre cyphase ivan\ Patzy Bugson daniel__2 jakky Zephyrus gigamonkey vpit3833 tsuru` sirdancealot2 parabolize koisoke s0ber jasond klltkr ThomasH kennyd wccoder 16:26:01 -!- names: lemoinem gkeith_lt karswell jjkola blackwolf a7p tvaalen pchrist pirateking-_- Intensity kanru` dim ghuntley gf3 AntiSpamMeta dotemacs rlb3`` TristamWrk Phoodus BigHugeDog kleppari CrazyEddy Sgeo_ Obfuscate EyesIsMine Fullma aerique ace4016 dsp_ two- tritchey tr-808 jaimef Kryztof nowhereman bobbysmith007 clop finnrobi hlavaty tdubellz ASau simon_weber kwmiebach shifty monotux` Blkt` cmm samebchase xvilka rvchangue diginet Praise nialo` setmeaway 16:26:01 -!- names: ZombieChicken tessier Odin- Jasko loke SHODAN REPLeffect Modius jlaire ch077179 hyoyoung hugod pkhuong Guest32898 Quadrescence drysdam ve rson enn_ Posterdati antoszka conntrack OliverUv tic em daedric egn macrobat freiksenet Inode_ oGMo adeht sellout poindont` wyan chr arbscht Kvaks clog gemelen stepnem lnostdal rabite srcerer literal madnificent keltvek vsync guther cmatei k9quaint Xach Euthydemus easye reb __class__ newcup Axioplase_ rtoym eli abeaumont 16:26:01 -!- names: dmbaturin housel Nshag lonstein PECCU prip __main__ Khisanth miql fartofagony ski_ gffa ChibaPet timb jerQ ered rdd oconnore maxm- froggey devhost kaol axion Munksgaa1d arnsholt dfox herbieB_ g0 r_takaishi cataska phadthai felideon brendyn e__krappi kanru drdo yan_ redline6561 DrForr jiacobucci dcguru November syrinx_ flip215 anthracite dlowe tali713 rpgsimmaster otwieracz neena ArmyOfBruce z0d _root_ sbryant pokes vhost- Zhivago rootzlevel izz__ jrockway 16:26:01 -!- names: joshe Vutral ejohnson ecraven Tristam dnm dryman pok PissedNumlock foocraft twopi BlastHardcheese Kovensky ``Erik p_l adhoc _stink_ setheus Yahovah MikeSeth _3b___ quasisan1 Utkarsh_ boyscared johs antifuchs cpt_nemo yeltzooo _tca peterhil cmbntr gabot krl Fade j_king scharan The_third_man Mandus gensym StrmSrfr ozzloy rotty jayne dan64 luis nuba nicdev_ r126f theBlackDragon foom ramus mon_key felipe djinni` |3b| howeyc eMBee new sepi daimrod Neronus 16:26:01 -!- names: xristos Borbus mtd shachaf Bucciarati Jabberwockey sshirokov ft zbigniew qsun cods SpitfireWP kloeri Subfusc cow-orker aoh Tordek ineiros noopyks billitch_ fmu koollman sav H4ns mgr basho__ cYmen scode erg mal Xof_ guaqua limetree jasom tomaw ec Yamazaki-kun jeekl df_ galdor 16:26:08 You are welcome. 16:26:25 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:27:20 Do you want a value, or an extern name? If the latter, I don't think there's an easy to way do that except to load a custom .so 16:28:42 For a value, with-foreign-objects or foreign-alloc would work. 16:28:55 maybe he wants to #+windows (load-foreign-library "msvcrt.dll") first 16:29:57 Is there actually I standard way to do a non-blocking read in CL? 16:29:58 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:26 What should I do when function takes pointer and point it to something valuable? 16:30:32 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:30:36 ah. #'LISTEN 16:30:40 Neronus: not really. 16:31:00 Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:14 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-137.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:34 pnq [~nick@ACA32439.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:40 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-137.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:10 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:13 "Returns true if there is a character immediately available from input-stream; otherwise, returns false." 16:32:26 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:32:38 Neronus: you got the non-blocking bit right, but you forgot the read. 16:32:56 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-068-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:33:02 Also "character" is a pretty rough limitation. 16:33:09 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:33:30 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:38 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 16:34:28 -!- fartofagony [fartofagon@c-566ee155.227-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:36:24 well, you can make a loop that reads characters until no more are available, putting them in a stream. It is possible. I admit that its not efficient 16:37:01 fartofagony [fartofagon@c-566ee155.227-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:37:14 I just updated to ironclad 0.30, and I have the following error with SBCL 1.0.55: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128625 16:37:42 am I the only one with this problem, or is this a know issue ? 16:38:31 i don't know if you're the only one, but i was able to build 0.30 without a problem 16:38:42 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C2ACB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:55 i am using 1.0.55.7+ 16:38:57 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:00 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 16:39:00 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 16:39:06 galdor: 32 bit? 16:39:10 64 bit 16:39:13 same here 16:39:41 I'm gonna delete my whole fasl cache and try again 16:40:30 Is there an ASDF function for clearing the fasl cache? 16:40:33 well loading it with an empty fasl cache works 16:40:38 that's strange 16:42:00 hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:02 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:43:06 hmm, seems to compile much more quickly now 16:43:10 maybe i'm imagining it 16:43:26 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C2ACB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:39 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:44:12 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 16:46:04 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-218-200-111.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:12 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.194] has joined #lisp 16:46:37 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-40-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:46:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.203] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:47:34 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 16:47:52 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 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quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:21 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:00 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-409412.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:02:03 kilon_ [~kilon@athedsl-385373.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:02:11 -!- ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:02:15 ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.156.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:03:17 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-396206.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:03:20 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:27 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-409412.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:37 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.49] has joined #lisp 17:05:43 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:06:42 ebobby [~fms@38.111.144.18] has joined #lisp 17:08:24 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-184-159.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:09:19 -!- kilon_ [~kilon@athedsl-385373.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:10:04 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-40-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:12 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:29 -!- Phoodus [~foo@d50-98-2-227.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:12:50 ThomasH: ,delete-system-fasls 17:13:12 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-137-187.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:01 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:35 Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has joined #lisp 17:16:55 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-40-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:41 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-40-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:18:53 phrixos [~Foo@unaffiliated/phrixos] has joined #lisp 17:19:22 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:20:16 maxm-: Thanks 17:22:41 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128179182.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 17:23:40 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:24:19 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25:41 maxm-: I don't find that function in the ASDF version I'm using, exported or otherwise. 17:26:07 ThomasH: It's a SLIME command 17:26:16 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-77-200.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:26:41 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-203-30.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:26:46 jacius: Oh, okay, I was looking for something in the ASDF package. 17:26:59 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:27:26 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 17:28:27 rudi_ [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 17:28:38 I wonder how that command works. 17:29:11 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 17:30:23 Xach: Elfin magic, is my guess 17:30:29 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:31 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:06 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA32439.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:31:40 pnq [~nick@AC814EA2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:47 down to <10 failures for the mop test suite for abcl :) 17:32:58 rudi: That sounds like good news. Congrats! 17:33:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:55 congrats rudi! i don't use abcl but i do like the efforts which is being done to get it on par with the other implementations. especially now that it's geared more directly towards what users commonly use under CL. :) 17:34:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:33 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:47 huh? 17:34:49 thanks! As soon as there's quicklisp support for an implementation, there's lots of motivation to fill in the remaining missing bits 17:35:17 and abcl is nice for sneaking CL into large Java projects ;) 17:35:19 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-017.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:35:57 *jacius* cackles evilly 17:36:03 i find it amazing that quicklisp's effects ripple through to implementations becoming vastly better. as i understand it abcl has made some big steps forward towards compatibility since quicklisp exists (perhaps the maxima effort spurred it all) 17:36:12 bas_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:36:18 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 17:36:55 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:37:20 rudi: i personally found it to be rather cumbersome to connect to some jar files (read: i failed doing so). i could probably use abcl internally if i knew how to connect the dots towards accessing the JDBC stuff. 17:37:58 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-40-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:39:07 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:19 I use something like (add-to-classpath (directory "jfreechart-1.0.13/lib/*.jar")) 17:39:48 rudi: do you have a link to a project which uses a jar file? you probably do and i'm probably missing something blatantly obvious for you. 17:40:38 sadly, nothing public, and I'm quite new to the project - but if you're interrested, I'm sure the mailing list will answer 17:40:45 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-40-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:40:56 and I promise to fix the documentation using the answers you get ;) 17:41:34 rudi: LoL, thanks! perhaps i'll nag them about it in the future. it's not particularly pressing yet. 17:42:01 and i'll hold *You* responsible for their actions :) 17:42:38 that's ok, as long as it doesn't involve flogging with a Cat-5 o' nine tails 17:44:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.35.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:58 lindes [~user@p4FF1C61E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:23 I'm doing research on past and current attempts to either revise the CL 17:45:33 (oops, pressed enter too soon) 17:46:34 I'm doing research on past and current attempts to either revise the CL standard or define alternative packages to use instead of common-lisp. Anyone have pointers to projects like that? 17:47:02 sacho [~sacho@95-42-109-40.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:47:08 not many of those have taken off 17:47:11 jacius: some keywords that spring to mind are kent pitman's "substandards" and the "CDR" process 17:47:20 there's the CDR process, and proposed%20 17:47:38 and extensions like Gray streams, simple-streams, CLIM, the MOP 17:47:42 http://www.cliki.net/proposed%20extensions%20to%20ANSI 17:48:08 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA089B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:48:39 Great, thank you. :) If you think of any more, please let me know 17:49:05 jacius: peter's Reno talk was 1/3rd about the concept 17:49:08 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@1Cust171.tnt10.fft4.deu.da.uu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:10 jacius: a very good listen 17:49:37 jacius: Search for CLtL3 17:50:26 http://s3.amazonaws.com/weekly-repl/weekly-repl_ep-1.mp3 17:50:31 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@91-67-40-102-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:50:35 Xach: awesome :) 17:51:05 Wheres drewc when you need him? 17:51:14 canada, probably 17:51:37 Shifty Canadians. 17:51:43 Xach: and how far is that from #lisp? 17:51:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.203] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:56:02 From the Preface to CLtL2, "Common Lisp has succeeded. Since publication of the first edition of this book in 1984, many implementors have used it as a de facto standard for Lisp implementation." -> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node2.html 17:56:39 Shaftoe: well, unless it has changed from a while back, it is clear it could be improved quite a bit. 17:57:01 Shaftoe: I do some coadministration of cl.net. 17:57:16 The ANSI standard isn't really necessary, if a decent revision is produced, it can become the de facto standard. 17:57:31 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:58:20 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C2ACB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:22 Another good quote, "This second edition, unlike the first edition, also includes a few diagrams to pep up the text. However, there are absolutely no new jokes, and very few outright lies." 17:58:27 Shaftoe: istr from general discussions in the round of people in charge that everybody agrees that the projects page could be improved. 17:59:35 prxq: do they want improvement in the form of someone to shephard the content, but they want no part of messing with the code? or if (after prxq: the I talk about are all about reasonable professionalism etc. I'm not at all thinking about going dark in a room and coming up with an entire new everything. But I am wondering if there's any will to change the code in any way, or if there's people who are attached to the code etc. for whatever "the code" is. 18:02:47 Shaftoe: cl.net lives from voluntary work. If you have an idea of how this can improved, be sure to drop us a mail. Usually, the philosophy is to not stand in the way of people that want to improve things. 18:03:03 prxq: great. That's what I needed to know. 18:03:14 Shaftoe: there isn't much code, if there is any at all. 18:03:28 -!- sunwukon` [~vukung@t1.iit.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:03:30 prxq: I'll think about it some and email. is there a laundry list of gripes somewhere? 18:04:49 Shaftoe: well, it looks like this: http://common-lisp.net/projects.shtml 18:06:14 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814EA2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:33 prxq: ok. I'll look around. I gotta run for lunch right now. 18:06:59 -!- rme [rme@AE5A245C.F74FD1E8.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 18:07:43 phrixos [~Foo@adsl-77-86-57-217.karoo.kcom.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:18 -!- phrixos [~Foo@adsl-77-86-57-217.karoo.kcom.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:08:18 phrixos [~Foo@unaffiliated/phrixos] has joined #lisp 18:08:19 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.142.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:08:21 ...and I have a monsterdeadline tomorrow :-) c u 18:08:24 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0313.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:10:29 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.47.138] has joined #lisp 18:12:19 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:15:04 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C2ACB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:27 978 exported symbols in the common lisp package. Didn't realize it was that large. 18:18:52 large languages make small programs 18:19:48 Someone should make one of them online quizzes: "how many CL symbols can you name in 5 minutes?" 18:19:55 i think that would mess me up because I would try to tab-complete 18:20:31 "Can you name 3 uses for GENTEMP?" 18:22:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:34 rudi: The correct answer is "No", right? 18:22:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:50 Edosed [~Edosed@dyn-160-39-150-69.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:22:56 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 18:23:11 Anyone have a unicode-enabled CMUCL at their fingertips? 18:23:26 Is there a :unicode or something in *FEATURES*, if so? 18:23:52 -!- Edosed [~Edosed@dyn-160-39-150-69.dyn.columbia.edu] has left #lisp 18:24:05 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:08 Yes. 18:24:10 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-109-40.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:37 sacho [~sacho@95-42-109-40.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:24:52 rme [~rme@50.43.154.59] has joined #lisp 18:24:53 Also in lisp-implementation-version: "20b (20B Unicode)" 18:25:40 achiu [~arthurchi@216.174.109.254] has joined #lisp 18:25:53 rpg: http://paste.lisp.org/+2R91 18:26:01 but not all implementations have it 18:28:46 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:28:49 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:25 thanks, pjb! Need to check for this in unicode-enabled ASDF. 18:31:15 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: metaphysician] 18:32:04 rme_ [~rme@50.43.133.91] has joined #lisp 18:32:47 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.154.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:48 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 18:33:05 rpg: char-code-limit may be useful. 18:33:22 Well, no; You want external-format support 18:33:27 pjb: hi 18:33:31 Hi! 18:33:37 We are trying to handle file encoding in ASDF; seems exceedingly nasty. 18:33:56 pjb: (car '(ciao pjb)) 18:34:00 We should write more CDRs. 18:34:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.47.138] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:35:38 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-109-40.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:35:49 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 18:36:02 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.160.64] has joined #lisp 18:36:07 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:38 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.16.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:37:58 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 18:38:44 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-109-40.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:40:08 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.91] has quit [Quit: rme] 18:43:04 -!- ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ainm] 18:43:55 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:19 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-200-151.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:45:23 dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:46:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-199-200.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:07 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:50 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 18:50:12 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:58 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 18:52:20 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has left #lisp 18:54:41 (/ 1 -2) => -1/2 #| then |# (denominator *) => 2. I was hoping that the origin of the sign would be retained, but not sure why or if that is even important. 18:54:43 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:56:04 dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 18:56:47 ThomasH: rationals are normalized, and normalized denominators are positive. 18:57:05 (/ 2 -4) --> -1/2 too. 18:59:50 -!- lindes [~user@p4FF1C61E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:00:31 dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:03:30 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 19:07:12 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 19:07:39 Edosed [~Edosed@dyn-209-2-226-233.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:08:19 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:45 -!- Edosed [~Edosed@dyn-209-2-226-233.dyn.columbia.edu] has left #lisp 19:09:26 sickle_ [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:37 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-148-111.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:37 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:46 -!- sickle_ is now known as sickle 19:11:22 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-137-187.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:12:34 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:13:09 espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2373.res.insa-lyon.fr] has joined #lisp 19:13:29 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:13:54 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-232-13.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:50 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:16:38 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.162.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:47 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0963.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:50 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-148-111.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:17:57 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:19:12 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:37 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:11 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:27 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:33 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:19 young_soul [~user@78.90.30.8] has joined #lisp 19:24:57 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:11 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:26:56 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:24 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:03 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:29:05 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:55 one more question about slime 19:30:10 Are you sure? 19:30:10 when I press M . and navigate to definition of a function 19:30:19 M-. 19:30:22 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:30:24 M . produces M. 19:30:32 yiiiihah 19:30:34 is there are way to return back where I was (as in web browser) 19:30:40 M-, 19:30:59 thanks! 19:31:00 or C-u 19:31:05 pjb: I'm not sure how that applies to retaining the origin of the sign. The GCD is the abosulte value, so (/ (/ 2 2) (/ -4 2)) => 1/(-2) if the sign is retained. Retaining the location of the sign has no effect on the mathematics, it was just something that seemed like it might be useful, but I can't think of an example where it would be. 19:31:18 *absolute* 19:31:41 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:31:57 ThomasH: we'd end up with fractions that are =, but whose numerator/denominator aren't respectively =. 19:32:48 pkhuong: Good reason not to retain the location. 19:34:53 pkhuong: 2/4 =/= 4/8? 19:35:05 -!- mel0on [1000@h-70-73.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:01 sickle: That's not the point, 1/(-2) == (-1)/2 , but numerator 1/(-2) =/= numerator (-1)/2 19:36:15 same for denominator. 19:36:17 ah 19:36:35 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:36:44 pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-236-196.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 19:39:55 Xach: I just listened through Peter Seibel's ILC 2010 talk. It was really informative, thanks so much for linking it. :) 19:41:18 josef_ [~josef@p549D02EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:23 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:43:00 glad to hear it 19:44:05 I got a spam about "getting a speech pathology degree" "As [I] have a related site,", ibcl :-) 19:44:18 pjb: same here! 19:44:25 *Xach* shakes fist 19:45:02 -!- X-Scale [name@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:46:59 -!- Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47:27 -!- pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-236-196.csuohio.edu] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:47:53 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:49:59 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:51:12 X-Scale [name@89.180.168.115] has joined #lisp 19:51:37 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest94268 19:51:37 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:32 -!- young_soul [~user@78.90.30.8] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:55:23 jacius: Peter also did a Google talk at some point earlier. 19:56:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:46 young_soul [~user@78.90.30.8] has joined #lisp 19:57:41 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 19:58:56 is there a way to call arbitrary SQL functions in s-sql, or do i need to add support for every function that i want to call? 19:59:15 H4ns: arbitrary sql functions are automatically tried for unknown keywords 19:59:15 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:26 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:44 Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has joined #lisp 19:59:54 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:03 Xach: hm. ok, i'll try again. 20:00:07 s-sql? any link? (google-fu very low tonight) 20:00:26 dim: http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/s-sql.html 20:00:43 ah postmodern 20:00:59 hey H4ns do you happen to know if postmodern supports COPY TO? 20:01:20 maybe Xach is who to ask that question though :) 20:01:47 dim: our fork does have some support. github.com:mcna/Postmodern 20:01:48 *dim* wants to write pgloader version 3 in common lisp 20:02:21 H4ns: your fork is dependable? :) 20:02:30 dim: no 20:03:22 hehe, ok 20:03:25 Xach: as you seem to have experience - how can i prevent it from inserting commas between certain function argument, do you know that, too? i.e. "TRIM(BOTH FROM COLUMN)" 20:04:02 H4ns: ah, it uses a generic function call syntax 20:04:14 H4ns: SQL functions with funky syntax need either special support, or you can use :raw 20:04:28 H4ns: use btrim() instead 20:04:33 H4ns: or you might find a variation that uses a more conventional syntax (i don't know if such exists for trim) 20:04:40 http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/functions-string.html 20:04:56 I think PG always add a classic function notation support 20:04:57 btrim looks fine, thanks! 20:05:08 That is nice. 20:05:19 SQL functions with funky syntax always make me a bit glum. 20:05:21 because that's how it's implemented, and the sepcial function syntax required by the SQL Standard is then put together in the grammar 20:05:32 Good to know 20:05:34 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:05:34 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 20:05:34 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 20:05:35 the SQL standard plays havoc with their syntax additions, really 20:06:09 | TRIM '(' BOTH trim_list ')' 20:06:13 FuncCall *n = makeNode(FuncCall); 20:06:13 n->funcname = SystemFuncName("btrim"); 20:06:15 see :) 20:06:22 that's from pgsql:src/backend/parser/gram.y 20:06:31 dim: please spare us! 20:06:40 mmm, yeah ok, sorry 20:06:46 -!- young_soul [~user@78.90.30.8] has quit [Quit: Timein error] 20:07:07 that's only 3 lines, but I guess seeing C is not what that channel has been created for :) 20:08:13 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:25 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:26 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:08:26 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:09:28 so, trying to repair: did you know that PostgreSQL has been a common lisp project while in its infancy, and slowly got rewritten in C after '86 (I think) 20:09:58 we still have lots of places dealing with lisp like list structures 20:10:21 dim: Yep. 20:15:16 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:15:32 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:15:40 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:16:42 diginet_ [~diginet@ppp-70-246-16-75.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:00 -!- diginet_ is now known as krfkeith 20:18:24 -!- krfkeith is now known as diginet_ 20:18:29 -!- diginet [~diginet@ppp-70-247-40-9.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:46 -!- diginet_ is now known as diginet 20:18:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:19:19 -!- kanru`` [~user@61-228-144-148.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:21:37 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:21:38 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@206.126.93.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:23:49 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.129] has joined #lisp 20:25:34 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:10 -!- josef_ [~josef@p549D02EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:28:12 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:29:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-017.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:36 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:35:28 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:38:19 bas_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:38:25 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 20:38:42 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:40:48 What does (symbolicate ) means? I'm trying to use http://pinterface.livejournal.com/40037.html 20:41:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:06 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:24 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:49 NeedMoreDesu: it is a function in the alexandria package 20:43:29 meiji1 [~mark@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:43 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:46:39 symbolicate doesn't mean anything 20:47:44 I suggestyou stick to CL proper 20:48:04 Alexandria is a bit musty 20:49:27 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 20:52:04 davlaps [~davlaps@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:18 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:49 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:54:40 ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:22 well I thinkso 20:59:40 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@c-67-169-182-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:36 -!- NeedMoreDesu [~user@109.122.14.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:00 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04:04 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 21:04:57 hello. in Common Qt it it possible to directly connect a signal to a CL function? 21:04:57 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-184-159.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:44 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:08:56 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:10:53 all the #_connect examples in tutorial14 are connecting signal to C++ member functions 21:10:58 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:11:52 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:11:53 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:53 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:53 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181241043.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:53 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:12:10 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:50 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.104.106] has joined #lisp 21:12:54 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:15 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 21:17:00 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:18:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:25:14 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:28:19 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 21:28:31 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:29:46 -!- dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:32 -!- phrixos [~Foo@unaffiliated/phrixos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:59 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:36 dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:33:16 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:26 davlaps [~davlaps@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:36:09 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:40 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:40 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@125.Red-88-11-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:38:15 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:42:22 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:38 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-167-199.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:59 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 21:51:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:43 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:54:06 daniel [~daniel@p50829F77.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:08 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55:29 Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has joined #lisp 21:55:32 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 21:55:56 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-11-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:56:18 -!- daniel__2 [~daniel@p5B3260B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:38 -!- milanj [~milanj_@212-200-192-196.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:59:50 Is there a straight way to compare two arrays for equality? 22:00:27 didi: you mean beyond equalp? 22:00:31 -!- dropster [~Kim@0x3ec66a5a.inet.dsl.telianet.dk] has left #lisp 22:00:48 H4ns: No, not beyond equalp. Thank you! 22:01:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:01:58 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 22:02:20 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 22:04:28 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:53 -!- Fare [~Fare@216.239.55.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:05:35 -!- dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:11 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.235.17] has joined #lisp 22:07:19 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:49 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:08:46 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:55 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:56 -!- optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:48 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 22:12:05 didi: (equalp #(1.0 2 3) #(1 2 3)) --> T (equalp #("hello") #("HELLO")) --> T 22:14:12 superflit_ [~superflit@71-218-200-111.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:50 pjb: Hum. Thank you for pointing that out. In this specific case I'm interested in comparing arrays of only integers, but I would be certainly fooled otherwise. 22:16:52 didi: if they are one-dimensional arrays, it is pretty easy to do something concise that is different from equalp 22:17:04 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:04 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 22:17:12 (every 'eql a b) 22:17:12 Xach: It's actually a matrix. 22:17:18 pjb: Nice. 22:17:19 aiiee 22:17:34 (every 'eql (displaced-row-major m1) (displaced-row-major m2)) 22:17:43 Implement displaced-row-major yourself ;-) 22:18:03 :^) 22:19:49 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:20:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:32 When defining a variable via (defvar *variable*), does *variable* have any kind of distinct type or limits? 22:20:37 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:20:43 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 22:20:52 ZombieChicken: no. the variable does not have a type. the value does. 22:20:54 ZombieChicken: No. 22:21:29 So until it is given a value it only exist as a name then? 22:21:45 Even after, you can bind values of different types. 22:21:53 Variables don't have types in Lisp. Only values have. 22:22:21 (defvar *var*) (setf *var* 1) (defvar *var* "hello") 22:22:59 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 22:23:07 Notice that type is not an interesting notion anyways: the set of types form a lattice from NIL to T, and any given value belongs in general to an infinite number of different types. 22:23:09 I'm just looking for some more regarding PCL's section 3 where he used *db* to store a list of "hashes" 22:23:22 Eg. 1 is of type (integer 0 1) (integer 1 1) (integer 0 2) etc 22:24:16 hmm, ok 22:24:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:43 BIT, etc 22:25:12 types don't matter since it is all really just ones and zeros? 22:25:19 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:31 ZombieChicken: that is a fairly ridiculous notion 22:26:07 Types matter a lot. It is very handy for the type information to be available in CL. 22:26:10 Xach: When I'm not 100% sure I understand something I as questions, even if it seems stupid to me 22:26:22 s/as/ask 22:26:41 ZombieChicken: ok, the answer to that leading question is "no" 22:27:00 Types do matter despite things being ones and zeros at some level. 22:27:03 I understand that much 22:27:56 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-116-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:11 ZombieChicken: if you want, all variables in Lisp are of type T, the union of all types. 22:28:25 rpg [~rpg@mail.shirtikvah.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:35 And the compiler checks that anything you assign to a variable is of type T, statically. 22:28:55 ok 22:29:25 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:29:39 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:49 On the other hand, a C compiler cannot even check if a variable is of type {1,2,42}[100,110]. 22:30:14 In CL you'd write: (check-type var (or (member 1 2 42) (integer 100 110))) 22:31:36 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-137.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:39 sacho [~sacho@95-42-109-40.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 22:35:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-7.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:23 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-109-40.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:38:42 ok, when using (push (list a b c) *db*), is (list) assigning a b and c to one value of *db*? 22:39:05 No. 22:39:26 list is a function that takes its arguments and builds a chain of conses with the arguments in the CAR. 22:39:40 http://paste.lisp.org/+2R99 <- this is the bit of code I'm trying to understand fully (probably should have posted it before. From PCL, incase you are wondering) 22:39:55 (defun list (&rest args) (if (null args) '() (cons (car args) (apply (function list) (cdr args))))) 22:40:51 push is a macro. (push e l) is coarsely equivalent to (setf l (cons e l)) 22:41:02 (but push doesn't evaluate l twice). 22:41:42 ZombieChicken: so what we have here is a variable *db*, and chains of conses. 22:41:57 ZombieChicken *recorddb* is an empty list. you're pushing a new list to it as a first element 22:42:14 ok 22:42:27 ZombieChicken: this is explained in details in gentle. 22:42:36 Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 22:42:50 thanks 22:42:51 -!- meiji1 [~mark@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:08 try (defparameter *list* nil) (push 1 *list*) (push 2 *list*) 22:43:34 or defvar, won't make a difference here 22:44:09 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:09 defparameter = defvar + setq. 22:44:18 Better use defparameter in general. 22:44:35 (defvar *list* '(1 2 3)) (defvar *list* nil) *list* --> (1 2 3) ; this is surprizing. 22:44:42 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:43 I've already used that snippet some. I'm just trying to understand how it works 22:46:02 (setf *db* 'nil) #| *db*: [*]-->NIL |# (push (list 1 2 3) *db*) #| *db*: [*]-->[1|*]-->[2|*]-->[3|nil] |# 22:46:31 Oops, this is wrong. 22:46:47 Let's do it in 2D ;-) 22:47:55 ZombieChicken: http://paste.lisp.org/+2R9A 22:49:03 That is the structure of how variables hold their values? 22:49:20 it's what *db* points to 22:50:02 list is just a chain of conses. (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) => (list 1 2 3) 22:50:42 ok, mind defining 'conses' for me since I don't think I understand that? 22:50:51 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:11 cons is a pair 22:51:17 it has two elements 22:52:06 I found the wikipedia page on the subject 22:52:14 In the diagram, *db* points to the top left cons cell. 22:52:29 That that cons cell is the one created by push. 22:52:37 The three bottom cons cells are created by list. 22:54:31 ok, just to see if I have this 22:54:56 ok, I lost it. gimme a sec 22:55:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:55 in the conses you have a value and what sort of amounts to a pointer to the next value when working with lisp? 22:55:58 er, list* 22:56:14 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gone] 22:56:16 yes. it's a singly linked list built with pairs (or cons cells) 22:56:30 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@gateway/tor-sasl/mattsg/x-78535695] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8-dev] 22:56:38 ok, that I understand 22:56:44 first part of the cons cell (or car) is the actual element, second part is either nil (meaning list ends) or another cons cell 22:56:56 ZombieChicken: both slots have the same structure. You can imagine all values are in little boxes, and there's pointers to those little boxes around. 22:57:06 or another value 22:57:10 A cons cell is a box with two pointers, one car, one cdr. 22:57:58 alright, I think I understand that 22:58:24 and *db* is just the general name for this list 22:58:29 In practice implementations often optimize small varlues to avoid pointers and allocating small blocks, so they store eg. small integers in place of the pointers. 22:59:15 Implementations seems to have alot of leeway when figuring out how to do things internally 22:59:41 -!- rpg [~rpg@mail.shirtikvah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:00:39 They have. 23:00:46 *db* is a list of record. 23:00:54 so when pushing multiple (list) into the same variable what I am getting is a linked list of linked list 23:01:07 A record is a p-list of key and values. 23:01:16 (in that PCL example). 23:01:28 Exactly, a list of list. 23:01:54 anything important I'm missing so far on how that bit of code works? 23:02:06 Well, it's quite trivial. 23:02:12 yes, it is 23:02:21 ZombieChicken: what's more important is the abstractions that are deployed here. 23:02:32 (addrecord r) adds a record to the db. 23:02:39 (mkcd t a r r) creates a cd record. 23:02:50 It doesn't really matter how they work. 23:02:55 I'm the kind of person who likes to know how things are working 23:02:58 You could easily change the implementation. 23:03:02 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:16 ZombieChicken: of course, as programmers we have to implement them. But this is a detail. 23:03:24 mhmm 23:03:44 -!- ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:03:48 ainm [~ainm@206.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:12 you can start writing a program such as (addrecord (mkcd "Cyclone" "Tangerine Dream" 10 t)) without even implementing addrecord and mkcdr. 23:04:42 When running that program you'd get underfined function errors, and while in the debugger, you could define the function and continue the program. 23:05:13 Lisp environments allow what's called "wishful programming" 23:05:17 cases like that being where a SLIME-style enviroment would be handy 23:05:43 Yes, but that's possible in most bare lisp implementations. 23:05:44 CL 23:05:59 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:02 18WAAJ8YK [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 23:06:03 64MAA48UF [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 23:06:14 I was refering to keeping the code itself up to date with what was in the debugger 23:06:15 -!- 64MAA48UF [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:41 Well that's another question. Have a look at Interlisp, or my ibcl. 23:07:05 But otherwise, indeed you have to keep the new function in a separate source file, and send it to the lisp image while "debugging". 23:07:30 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:07:56 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 23:08:16 DataLinkDroid [~David@110.144.233.54] has joined #lisp 23:08:17 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 23:09:31 alright, thanks for the help 23:10:52 with slime if you get an error during runtime, you can recompile the function in question and continue with the execution where it stopped 23:11:34 ... provided that you have a suitable restart when you are sent to the debugger. 23:11:44 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:01 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sickle] 23:12:17 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-20-196-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:07 davlaps [~davlaps@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:21 ZombieChicken: mhave a look at http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/sedit/ 23:14:21 h4ns i didn't see any cases where [RETRY] wouldn't do, but there probably could be some 23:14:28 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 23:16:05 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.234.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:17 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:17:03 I will a little later on pjb. 23:17:32 -!- fartofagony [fartofagon@c-566ee155.227-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 23:22:00 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:22:27 ASau` [~user@95-27-143-55.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:23:16 How many pages does the 'standard library' for CL cover? 23:23:26 or better yet, how many functions are there? 23:23:29 about a thousand. 23:23:44 (let ((i 0)) (do-external-symbols (s "CL") (incf i)) i) 23:24:34 SBCL doesn't seem to like that snippet 23:25:05 oh well. I don't think I need to know that right now 23:25:16 It's an unused variable warning, you can ignore it. 23:25:35 it gives some warnings but it still returned 978 here 23:25:39 ZombieChicken: it is conforming, all conforming implementation should accept it. 23:26:10 ok, I missed that 978 at the end 23:26:16 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-75-141.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:26:23 didn't notice it was seperate from the rest of the output 23:26:26 ZombieChicken: you should learn to read the messages programs give you. 23:27:13 (let ((i 0)) (do-external-symbols (s "CL") (declare (ignore s)) (incf i)) i) 23:27:14 I generally do, I just didn't notice that that was seperate 23:29:41 -!- mathrick_ is now known as mathrick 23:33:00 Not all of those 978 are functions, though. That also includes all the macros, constants, special variables, etc. 23:33:52 change (incf i) to (when (fboundp s) (incf i)) 23:34:14 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:35:18 And use macro-function and special-operator-p to distinguish them from pure functions. 23:35:28 -!- 18WAAJ8YK is now known as ikki 23:36:03 *didi* *sigh* 23:36:11 Let's do the vector/matrix trick. 23:37:01 didi: What is the vector/matrix trick? 23:37:35 jacius: Turn a mxn matrix into a (* m n) vector. 23:39:44 josef_ [~josef@p549D01D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:40:06 didi: Are you wondering how to do that, or..? 23:40:40 mrzackbot [~zack@dyn-jj-146-210.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:40:40 It's a oneliner. 23:41:05 (make-array (reduce '* (array-dimensions a)) :displaced-to a :element-type (array-element-type a)) 23:41:32 Well, (reduce '* (array-dimensions a) :initial-value 1) if you want to deal with empty arrays. 23:42:30 -!- mrzackbot [~zack@dyn-jj-146-210.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:43:43 mrzackbot [~zack@dyn-jj-146-210.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:44:52 jacius: Nah, just thinking out loud. 23:45:08 pjb: Thank you. 23:46:22 didi: for more fun: write a function that displaces slices of a n-dimension array. 23:46:44 pjb: array-total-size? 23:46:44 eg, takes rows of a matrix, takes rows or matrices of a tensor, etc. 23:46:58 Right. I miss it every time :-) 23:47:50 *didi* puts pjb's task at his fun-things.org 23:48:03 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-231-220.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:45 didi: and then, copy orthogonal slices. We can't displace column-major, we have to copy the elements; for a matrix it's easy, for higher dimensions it's more funny. 23:48:59 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:13 Seems very much beyond my current capabilities, but OK. 23:50:13 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-229-36.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:50:24 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 23:50:26 Another nice function is row-major-aref . For times when you just want to /pretend/ your array is a vector. :D 23:51:32 -!- josef_ is now known as josvuk 23:51:38 Hum, why '* in (reduce '* (1 2 3)) and not #'*? 23:52:03 didi: it's the same for CL functions. '* is one less character than #'*. 23:52:16 pjb: oic 23:52:36 cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:40 You made me lose the budget of 110 #'s! 23:53:14 Sorry... :^( here, have a hug. 23:53:17 *didi* hugs pjb 23:53:33 why just CL functions? I usually use 'func for all 23:53:52 sezo: for your own function you may shadow them with flet or labels. 23:54:38 two- [~textual@67.23.193.215] has joined #lisp 23:55:05 ah. not concerned with that 23:55:48 -!- achiu [~arthurchi@216.174.109.254] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 23:56:15 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 23:58:20 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving]