00:02:14 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:04:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:05:21 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-035-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:06:09 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-139-100.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:06:50 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:11:13 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:11:20 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 00:11:50 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:15:56 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:17 -!- tlw8913 [tenorplaye@2002:ceff:c637:1234:159e:3a8a:163b:b989] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:17:53 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.236.146] has joined #lisp 00:21:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:10 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:11 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:22:11 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:29:27 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:30:45 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:46 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:59 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31:07 eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has joined #lisp 00:31:07 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has quit [Changing host] 00:31:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:31:23 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:33:56 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 00:34:17 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 00:34:27 is there a destructive string concatenation method? 00:35:23 kenanb: how would that work? both arrays are too small to fit everything in them... 00:35:55 madnificent: i see 00:36:05 (that implies: no) :) 00:37:53 madnificent: yeah, i realized that :) 00:38:11 so is there something like a pointer to a string? 00:39:09 you can have adjustable arrays whose element-type is character 00:39:11 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:39:18 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 00:40:29 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:40 here is my problem, i wrote some function to get the recorded strings in a plist of plists :D this specific plist has some strange properties so it was a headache tp write it, I, like an idiot, was thinking i can setf the values i get from this list 00:41:12 juturna [59d33a8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.211.58.141] has joined #lisp 00:41:51 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 00:42:07 now I have a good complex function that gets the values it the plist, but i realize the vales cannot be used as first argument to setf, so if I can change the return values in my function to pointers to those values, I can still change them 00:42:10 or I hope so 00:42:40 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5baee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:41 you can hold the cons cell whose car is the string 00:44:38 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.100.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44:47 adeht: or I think I can modify my function into a macro that doesn't return the value but the getf code to it, right? 00:45:18 you don't need a macro for that 00:45:26 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 00:45:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:35 write a setf function 00:46:31 (actually with getf it may make sense to write a macro.. depends on what you want to do really. and I would consider re-design so as to not use plist-of-plists) 00:48:30 ebobby [~fms@50-0-172-141.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:22 adeht: I'll use that plist as direct input to a call to make-instance 00:50:50 so plist consists of initargs of that class infact 00:51:25 there is only one nested plist as one of the :keys in plist 00:51:56 so it isn't a completely silly structure i guess, but i admit it is very close 00:55:07 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:14 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:14 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:55:14 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 00:55:24 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.14.230] has joined #lisp 00:55:28 hmm, I guess setf won't directly let me evaluate its first argument, so even if a make a macro of my get function, it won't be expanded, right? 00:55:36 i need to write a setf-expander anyway 00:55:44 oh boy :) 00:57:48 I might be inclined to cons up a new plist of plists in your original function around your changed value and return that 00:59:47 kenanb: doesn't all of this shout to you that it's time for a redesign? you seem to be building a hack on a hack on a hack. 01:00:31 What is the typical workflow for starting a new lisp project? I created a skeleton with quickproject, but it feels awkward starting that way because I have to export all of the functions I want to toy with in the interpreter. How is it normally done? 01:00:51 juturna: (in-package :your-new-package) 01:00:59 (in the repl) 01:01:19 or (also in the repl) ,change-packageyour-new-package 01:01:40 Thanks 01:01:41 I also often swap to a package in the repl after quickprojecting it 01:01:44 you're welcome 01:02:19 madnificent: you won't believe it but this is the redesign :) I got a working version of the whole thing but it was going to be problematic in later so I wanted to change it to a stranger but better working version 01:02:26 madnificent: I'll get there :) 01:03:18 kenanb: think functional datastructures and try to work from there on. don't try to change everything everywhere. it makes everything hard to understand. everything is simpler when you dumbify it. 01:08:37 juturna: to be more specific, I usually quickproject, then asdf:initialize-source-registry, then I have a macro that loads the system, swaps to the package, and imports my repl convenience functions (like, e.g. that macro itself) 01:10:45 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-21-15.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:11:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:12:00 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:25 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:26 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:12:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:13:48 tlw8913 [~tenorplay@206.255.198.55] has joined #lisp 01:14:11 -!- juturna [59d33a8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.211.58.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:14:55 -!- workflow [~workflow@178-83-8-30.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:15:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.14.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:16:13 yates [c05e5c0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.94.92.11] has joined #lisp 01:16:44 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:17:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:17:43 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.14.230] has joined #lisp 01:18:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:20:55 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-139-100.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:46 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 01:28:07 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483AED5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:28:51 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:30:41 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:30:41 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:30:42 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.80] has joined #lisp 01:32:16 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:16 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:32:17 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:32:31 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:32:32 -!- tlw8913 [~tenorplay@206.255.198.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:32:51 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 01:38:32 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:00 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:48 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:40:01 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-46-145.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:40:16 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:41:57 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.14.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:45:44 hi, I'm trying to add a slot to a class using sb-mop. My current (failed) method is to call reinitialize-instance on it which, of course, is overwriting the original slots. What's the best way to do this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/128529 01:48:12 My other failed method was to push an instance of 'sb-mop:standard-slot-definition to the class's direct slots 01:49:08 lazybone [~yukiy@182.148.187.244] has joined #lisp 01:49:30 Which gives me this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128530 01:49:36 -!- yates is now known as everybody 01:49:41 -!- everybody is now known as yates 01:50:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.14.230] has joined #lisp 01:50:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:51:09 i keep on getting confused on the difference in functionality between quicklisp and ASDF. 01:51:30 following a tut and getting an error - http://pastebin.com/7YNmZ5pH 01:51:37 is there a nice tut on ASDF? 01:51:44 undeclared free variable 01:52:11 why? 01:52:16 yates: quicklisp is for downloading, installing, and loading packages. 01:52:19 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:20 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:52:20 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:52:25 yates: ASDF is for defining systems. 01:52:31 -!- antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:52:33 you can tell; it's in the name 01:52:38 Ralith: what is meant by a system? 01:52:40 I wouldn't put it that way. 01:52:50 well, you're the authority. 01:52:54 how would you put it? 01:53:10 I know my question is n00b 01:53:22 daem0n: What error do you get? I don't see one. 01:53:26 the word "system" is a bit overloaded - is there a special meaning for it in cl? 01:53:46 yates: Quicklisp is a program that can fetch things on demand for ASDF to load. 01:53:55 Xach: undeclared free variable *db* 01:54:10 daem0n: how are you loading this code? 01:54:17 daem0n: did you evaluate (defvar *db* nil) at some point? try pasting a transcript. 01:54:36 -!- milanj- [~milanj_@212-200-192-196.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:03 hmm it evals as *db* 01:55:04 yates: "system definition" in CL is a description of how to load some bits of software somehow 01:55:13 yates: a "system" generally describes a collected body of code, such as a library or program. 01:55:44 i see 01:55:51 that helps alot - thanks Xach and Ralith 01:55:55 np 01:56:17 daem0n: what lisp implementation are you using? 01:56:19 so quicklisp is more like a utility to go grab the package and get it into ASDF? 01:56:28 Xach: Closure 01:56:30 yates: kind of. 01:56:41 yates: s/package/system/ 01:56:44 daem0n: can you please paste a transcript of what happens? 01:56:45 via lispbox 01:56:50 1 sec 01:57:47 yates: quicklisp also hosts the software archives, and there is some testing to make sure that things work together to some degree. 01:57:52 well, one thing that confuses me is this: are we talking about source or compiled code? 01:58:03 Xach: it's working now but I didnt change anything 01:58:20 only thing I did was eval like you said 01:58:21 e.g., you mentioned a "library" - is that source code or compiled code? 01:58:21 yates: loading a system usually means compiling it (if needed) and then loading the resulting fasl files. 01:58:51 so ASDF does the compiling of code ? 01:59:01 ASDF loads the code. 01:59:02 yates: if needed, yes. 01:59:05 your CL impl compiles it. 01:59:50 Ralith: yes, i appreciate the distinction - i know it's actually CL that compiles it - so ASDF is controlling the CL compiler 01:59:57 yeah 02:00:04 cool 02:00:20 so does quicklisp handle getting the source? 02:00:48 yates: yes. 02:02:15 it can also load stuff that is locally visible via asdf 02:02:47 what does it mean to "install" a library? does that mean a) downloading the source, b) placing it in some sort of file storage area, and c) compiling it to fasl so it's ready for use? 02:03:19 as I used the term, it meant "downloading it and extracting it somewhere that ASDF can find it" 02:03:24 yates: quicklisp's notion of installing is fetching it and putting it somewhere where it could be loaded if needed. 02:03:30 yates: there is no uniform notion of installing 02:05:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:06:30 '"system definition" in CL is a desription of how to load some bits of software somehow' - but quicklisp also "loads" software - maybe this is where i'm still confused 02:06:44 between quicklisp and ASDF 02:07:28 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:28 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:07:28 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 02:07:33 does "load" mean the same thing in both cases? 02:07:35 quicklisp invokes ASDF. 02:08:05 in some cases, it acts as a thin wrapper around ASDF. 02:08:41 ok, that makes a lot more sense then. it's really ASDF that does the loading, but quicklisp can control ASDF? 02:09:32 asdf calls cl:load (and/or related things), quicklisp calls asdf, you call quicklisp. 02:10:39 are "system" and "library" synonymous? 02:10:51 no. 02:10:58 again, "library" is an informal term with no precise meaning. 02:11:12 (for CL) 02:11:38 it is often the case that a body of code will be considered both a system and a library. 02:12:10 when is a system not a library? 02:12:21 when it's a program, for example. 02:12:34 you mean the top-level program invoked by the user? 02:12:56 I'm not sure what you mean by that. 02:13:16 I mean a piece of software intended to be used directly, rather than as a component in other software loaded into the same image. 02:13:19 i.e., at the command line 02:13:28 the command line has nothing to do with it. 02:13:35 a webserver is a program; so is a web browser. 02:14:05 neither typically involve either REPL or command line interaction. 02:14:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.14.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:14:44 so when you said "program" you meant something that could be invoked in a REPL? 02:14:53 no. 02:14:59 define program 02:15:00 any function can be invoked at a REPL. 02:15:12 I already did. 02:15:18 just two minutes ago. 02:15:34 ok, you said "used directly" - exactly how does that happen? 02:15:49 with a mouse, keyboard, and display, usually. 02:16:02 often, with sockets or filesystem access. 02:16:49 antonv [5d7d31e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.232] has joined #lisp 02:16:56 so you mean a final executable for an OS that can be loaded into memory and used for some purpose, either by a user or OS? 02:17:11 in this case, I was referring to a system, not an executable. 02:17:47 some software exists to ease the development of other software. Some software exists to fulfil a task in and of itself. The former are often called libraries, and the latter are often called programs. 02:18:10 would you call grep a program? 02:18:12 -!- two-na [~textual@67.23.193.215] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:18:15 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:18:37 grep is not a CL system, and isn't relevant. 02:19:07 I'm not really interested in discussing semantics. Have I resolved your confusion about the term "system"? 02:19:23 no. 02:19:27 my apologies. 02:19:41 perhaps you should ask someone more able than I. 02:21:00 i think suspect you are being overly pedantic and i actually got the gist of "program" about 10 minutes ago. 02:21:23 i don't understand why that happened, and I don't mean to sound insulting or unappreciative 02:21:58 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:22:33 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 02:22:36 it would appear that we're not communicating effectively, and I don't know how to resolve that; if you feel you have an adequate grasp of the terminology, then I see no reason to worry about it further. 02:22:37 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has joined #lisp 02:24:25 Ralith: agreed, and thank you. 02:25:17 good luck with the lisping! 02:28:58 can you guys believe it, SBCL has unreachable code. how dare they waste my disk space 02:29:23 tlw8913 [~tenorplay@206.255.198.55] has joined #lisp 02:29:47 how insensitive 02:29:54 you should switch to clisp, that'll show it 02:30:03 yeah! 02:30:59 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:32:44 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:51 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:32:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 02:34:59 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-21-15.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:26 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-21-15.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:36:37 -!- lazybone [~yukiy@182.148.187.244] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:37:12 i'd like to write a simple lisp program/system that creates an sqlite datastore and populates it with a few default records - one that i can ultimately invoke via the command line 02:37:24 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:38:01 i guess i need to start with quicklisp? then get the cl-sqlite package? 02:38:22 that sounds like a good beginning. 02:38:31 lazytone [~yukiy@182.148.187.244] has joined #lisp 02:38:43 pnathan1 [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 02:38:57 ok, reading... 02:39:02 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:48 (assuming cl-sqlite is decent; I've never used it) 02:40:14 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 02:40:14 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 02:40:57 Ralith: based on others' recommendations here, and my cursory look, it seems like the right tool for the job, and i really like the simplicity of the tutorial examples 02:41:13 that sounds compelling enough! 02:41:14 (this was a few days back) 02:42:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:43:02 is there a standard directory structure for storing things like quicklisp in a user's home directory? 02:43:48 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:49 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:43:49 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 02:44:17 quicklisp will install itself in ~/quicklisp. You don't really get a choice in the matter afaik. 02:44:30 the file you download is just a bootstrap. 02:44:38 ah. 02:45:35 it would be nice to configure quicklisp to put it somewhere other than my home directory. 02:46:01 the admins at this company, in their infinite wisdom, give folks a minutes amount of home directory space, 02:46:09 s/minutes/minute 02:46:13 use a symlink? 02:46:26 good idea. 02:49:33 Xach, pjb, fe[nl]ix: Thanks for the advice earlier re modlisp vs. other solutions. I got pulled away :) - looking at Hunchentoot now. 02:50:04 -!- lazytone [~yukiy@182.148.187.244] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:55:50 does quicklisp not run under clisp? 02:56:11 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:23 I have no idea, but most people use CCL or SBCL. 02:56:34 so you'll find better support for those impls in general 02:56:48 i have used QL on CLISP 02:57:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128532 02:57:24 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.14.230] has joined #lisp 02:57:55 this is probably a very old version of clisp. 02:58:15 that certainly wouldn't help 02:58:22 -!- tlw8913 [~tenorplay@206.255.198.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:59:13 Ralith: again, our sysadmins, in their infinite wisdom, have locked down many programs in the name of maintaining a system that works with ancient software 02:59:27 my sympathies 02:59:31 CCL will run off a thumb drive! 02:59:32 and also have taken root access away from their users. 02:59:56 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 02:59:58 Lisp is one of the environments least prone to caring about root, really. 03:00:03 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 03:00:19 Ralith: are you implying that i could just run my own local thingie of clisp? 03:00:25 yep 03:00:25 an updated version? 03:00:34 again, I'd recommend using CCL or SBCL instead 03:00:38 but you could do it with clisp too. 03:00:59 i wish i could try out CCL 03:01:01 yes, that is recommended to me often here. 03:01:14 why the attachment to clisp? 03:01:43 ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:44 is there a version of sbcl that runs under cygwin? 03:01:46 Ralith: why should we care less about root? do you say that only with respect to the installation and running of applications, or do you have other reasons? 03:01:54 Does anyone know if it's possible to get MCL to run from the command line? 03:01:55 madnificent: what? 03:02:14 Ralith: "Lisp is one of the environments least prone to caring about root, really." 03:02:18 yes. 03:02:21 it is. 03:02:34 but are there other reasons than those which i mentioned? 03:02:45 none come to mind 03:02:47 yates: doesn't sbcl run on windows? 03:02:51 Ralith: ok, then i agree 03:03:07 yates: SBCL has an experimental windows port, but you're probably better off with CCL there. 03:03:25 mostly I try to avoid cygwin whenever possible. 03:03:39 Ralith: well, because i was hoping to make it easy for other folks on my team to use these tools on either linux or cygwin, and sbcl doesn't come with cygwin while clisp does. 03:03:53 why would you want it on cygwin? 03:03:55 sbcl windows port is quite OK 03:03:56 Ralith: I have found cygwin to be extremely useful for over 10 years now. 03:03:58 I use it all the time 03:04:13 antonv: does it have good multithreading support yet? 03:04:24 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:29 multithreading it the point of this prot 03:04:41 yates: nonetheless, it is orthogonal to running lisp on windows. 03:05:04 because the rest of my project files rely on cygwin and it would be good to stay within the same environment/toolset. 03:05:06 it exists as a separate branch untill the code is merged to the main branch 03:05:21 CCL is also mostly OK on windows, I use it all the time too 03:05:34 what is CCL? 03:05:38 yates: win32 native lisp impls should neither rely on nor interfere with cygwin. 03:05:46 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 03:05:57 running them in cygwin would accomplish nothing but added complexity. 03:06:01 Ralith: you're wrong. path name conventions differ between the two. 03:06:10 cygwing is very helpful in general, but I would advice to avoid Lisps built with cygwin; compiled natevily to windows are more convenient 03:06:15 Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 03:06:16 c:/ versus /cygdrive/c/ 03:06:36 does your software rely on hardcoded absolute paths? 03:06:57 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:07:05 not hard-coded, but passed via the command-line. 03:07:15 an option or part of the file name, that is 03:07:38 CCL is Clozure Common Lisp, notable for having good debugging support and a very fast compiler. 03:07:47 yates: CCL is Clozure Common Lisp (Yes, that's a Z. It's unrelated to Clojure.) It's a nice, open source, CL implementation. 03:08:16 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-170-109-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:50 nice and open source and no powerpc love :( 03:09:12 Vivitron: thanks for the fill-in 03:09:39 who uses ppc these days? 03:10:01 Ralith: probably lots of embedded systems 03:10:18 I can't think of any. 03:10:38 How about Integrian's digital video recorders? 03:10:47 (I worked on them for a few months..) 03:10:52 never heard of 'em! 03:10:57 I'm sorry. 03:11:07 are they very exciting? 03:11:30 jlongster [~user@c-24-131-32-207.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:35 if you're a police department or public transportation organization, yes. 03:11:57 no, technically, yes, it was very exciting 03:12:09 interesting. 03:12:23 used the TI TMS320DM642 video-oriented DSPs for the video compression 03:12:39 and linux with busybox on the host side 03:12:44 on a ppc! 03:13:01 how odd! 03:13:06 why? 03:13:09 -!- emma is now known as em 03:13:34 it's not a common platform choice for embedded systems, to my knowledge. 03:13:48 wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC 03:13:52 I wasn't even aware ppc existed in the embedded space 03:14:04 more to my error, it would seem. 03:14:34 yeah, i guess a lot of folks think of it as a high-speed mac processor 03:16:07 tlw8913 [~tenorplay@206.255.198.55] has joined #lisp 03:17:02 Ralith, I exclusively use a PPC just because I can't afford anything more. 03:17:12 /begin{vent} 03:17:17 \ 03:17:22 i really really hate this old freaking RHEL OS! 03:17:28 /end{vent} 03:17:30 \ 03:17:48 yes, in LaTeX that is correct 03:19:00 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:17 anyway, if you absolutely must use cygwin-wrapped syscalls, I'd try compiling a recent lisp 03:20:58 Ralith: agreed - i'd go for sbcl 03:21:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:25 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 03:22:27 problem is, on this old rhel, i've had second-level compatibility issues, e.g., the perl interpreter was too old for the TeXLive installation, so I had to install my own perl. 03:22:41 just to install TeXLive! 03:22:59 so i'm loathe to build my own stuff here. 03:23:04 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:23:29 i'm going to bring in my own system very soon. Intel 2600 w/ SSD; OpenSUSE 12.1. yeah baby! 03:23:34 I don't think lisps have many dependencies aside from another lisp impl. 03:23:46 Ralith: what do you need to build sbcl? 03:24:06 well, ldd says it depends on libc, libm, libpthread, and libdl at runtime 03:24:12 a lisp, a C compiler, make, sh 03:24:14 which is about as minimal as it gets 03:24:23 dunno about buildtime but I doubt it's much more 03:24:49 CCL is the same 03:25:06 in fact, a CCL svn checkout comes with bootstrap binaries. 03:26:18 i'm wondering if i can install the sbcl binary locally, and have the required deps 03:26:31 probably 03:27:16 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-240-148.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:29:00 sbcl: error while loading shared libraries: requires glibc 2.5 or later dynamic linker 03:29:14 *yates* beats his head against a wall. 03:31:40 yates, just take binary distor 03:31:57 antonv: huh? 03:32:02 distor? 03:32:15 binary distribution of SBCL for windows 03:32:33 oh, well it's gotta run under linux too - my main platform 03:32:42 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:53 for linux get another binary - the linux one 03:32:55 http://www.sbcl.org/ 03:33:15 antonv: you don't understand - i did that and that is the error i'm getting when trying to run it. 03:33:24 ah 03:33:28 ok 03:33:31 antonv: he wants a binary that runs on cygwin and a binary that runs on an ancient version of RHEL. 03:33:36 neither of those meet the deps, it would seem. 03:33:52 well, it may run under cygwin, but i want it under linux first 03:33:53 teggi [~teggi@113.172.46.243] has joined #lisp 03:34:37 these people produce a world-class linux application and their own systems won't even run it due to their age 03:34:54 do i sound bitter? 03:34:56 I AM. 03:35:03 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:35:18 so frustrating, after running my own linux boxes at home for several years. 03:35:24 yates, it looks like you are not affraid of difficulties 03:35:37 antonv: maybe that's why i lost my hair? 03:35:38 :) 03:35:44 :) 03:35:48 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:35:53 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 03:36:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 03:36:35 trying the source.. 03:38:12 mathslinux [~user@118.186.129.155] has joined #lisp 03:40:09 giving up - gotta deliver some stuff. thanks anyway all. 03:40:14 -!- yates [c05e5c0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.94.92.11] has quit [] 03:42:59 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:43:00 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:29 Ralith, do you appreciate it when people (defmacro mv-bind ...) 03:45:39 -!- Arbamisto [~christoph@192.188.108.71] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:46:16 Quadrescence: I haven't encountered that. 03:46:16 -!- antonv 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seconds] 10:22:10 ysph [~user@68-191-98-185.dhcp.dctr.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:41 samebchase: Your string and your stream don't have the same type. It will still work, though, because base-char is a subtype of character 10:27:15 samebchase: And the :end parameter for read-sequence is unnecessary 10:28:33 samebchase: But yes, this at least is pretty much the way I would to it. Except that I would use alexandria:read-file-into-string :) 10:28:48 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 10:32:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:32:51 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.104.244] has joined #lisp 10:35:52 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:35:53 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 10:35:53 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:37:19 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 10:40:46 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Client Quit] 10:43:31 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:43:32 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 10:43:32 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:46:05 Neronus: hmm 10:51:02 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.241.63.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:33 fam_ [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 10:53:39 -!- fam_ [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:07 modified-version: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128533#2 10:55:14 samebchase: compare the performance of the first and the last version 10:55:48 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:57:48 pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128533#3 11:00:10 albacker_ [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:11 The first approach is very slow 11:00:22 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:01:54 Now, file-length on a character file needs to read it first. Eg. if newlines are CR LF in ascii, or if it's in UTF-8 or similar kind of encoding. 11:03:06 To avoid reading it twice, you could first open the fine as a binary stream of octets, get the file-length (this is O(1)). And reopen it as a character stream. The binary file length is an over estimate of the character count. So you can allocate an adjustable array of character, fill it with read-sequence, and adjust it to the actual number of character read. 11:05:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:07:56 -!- albacker_ is now known as albacker 11:08:02 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:08:02 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 11:09:09 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:13:16 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 11:13:55 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:51 does'nt alexandria have something for this? 11:23:44 ok, I wrote a parser program that use a little mopi and nothing else fancy 11:24:07 when i compile it from repl in slime, works like a charm 11:24:26 when i try to load it as a system, it malfunctions 11:25:10 it has nearly no macros at all, so i don't think i am failing with macroexpansion time, what else is different between manually compiling and system loading? 11:25:32 s/mopi/MOP 11:26:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:26:54 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:27:16 pjb: something like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128533#4 11:28:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:29:01 osa1 [~sinan@88.241.63.204] has joined #lisp 11:34:31 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:34:54 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:35:00 ainm [~ainm@109.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:24 samebchase: not make-string, which doesn't make an adjustable array. Juse (make-array file-size :adjustable t :element-type 'character) 11:38:54 oh 11:39:44 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:44:36 Guthur [~user@host86-151-84-76.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.92.213] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 11:46:29 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:07 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 11:49:39 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 11:51:33 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:53:24 *[6502]* just discovered that (setf #'foo #'bar) is not legal 11:55:18 you have to use (setf (symbol-function 'foo) #'bar) right ? 11:55:24 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:55:24 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 11:55:24 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:55:27 <[6502]> yes 11:55:30 conntrack [~tor@pdpc/supporter/professional/conntrack] has joined #lisp 11:55:41 (btw, hi [6502] :)) 11:56:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:57:06 or fdefinition. 11:57:14 <[6502]> galdor: Hey! :-) ... how's going? 11:57:55 we're starting to get some sun here, so pretty nice 11:58:13 <[6502]> pjb: I suppose there is a good reason for which (setf (function ...) ...) cannot be used 11:58:42 <[6502]> galdor: hehehe... here in italy it's a few weeks we're basically in summer :-) 11:59:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128537 12:00:25 nice 12:00:39 I still don't have a good reason to use jslisp, but still following it 12:00:43 when i compile this from within slime, works like a charm, when i load as system, fails 12:01:23 i think there something doesn't let mop part check for slots defined for ies classes but i couldn't debug it, any idea? 12:02:55 <[6502]> galdor: I've been working on it lately and now I've come to the big decision about how to partition namespaces... read-time solution (a la CL) is tempting but i've still something I need to understand better about the implications 12:03:00 ikki [~ikki@67-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:21 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081EE29.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:18 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:04:41 <[6502]> lunchtime for me.... l8r 12:04:45 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:04:53 [6502]: yes. function is like quote. You cannot change an immutable literal object. 12:05:12 (setf (Function f) ) is like (setf 42 ) 12:11:53 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:37 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 12:15:34 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:15:34 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 12:15:34 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:17:12 ok, when I run parse-ies while i am in cl-user as (cl-ies:parse-ies ...) it fails, when i in-package :cl-ies and try, it works 12:17:47 what can cause this, my brain is going to explode soon 12:18:05 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-120.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:18:07 kenanb: it may intern symbols in *package* instead of where they should go? 12:20:03 pjb: i am not sure i can follow 12:20:16 pjb: i exported every slot accessor, class name, and functions that needs to be exported 12:20:58 i refer all lib functions that my package depend on with their package prefix 12:21:58 When I do something it fails. Can you help me? 12:22:24 pjb: someday, I hope 12:22:33 but you are way over my league 12:22:55 Sorry, but today, my telepathic debugging abilities are tired. 12:23:00 pbj: You are a failure. I hope this helps. 12:23:33 pjb: if you mean I should paste code I already did and linked here 12:24:22 I see no defpackage and in-package form in that paste. 12:24:34 ah, just a sec 12:24:42 pardon me, 12:25:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128537#1 12:25:20 package.lisp 12:25:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128537#2 cl-ies.asd 12:27:26 should i also export slot names maybe? 12:28:24 my code basically parses an ies file, gets some keywords and values from it, checkes if the keywords match any slot names in specified classes using mop 12:28:33 Still no in-package form. 12:28:35 maybe I do something wrong while referring slot-name 12:28:54 May be your source file is loaded in the CL-USER package. 12:29:22 pjb: ah, (in-package #:cl-ies) is at the beginning of my first paste, absent copy-paste :) 12:30:26 kenanb: you can use M-x insert-file when editing a text box. 12:30:59 klltkr [~klltkr@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:31:51 hmm, thanks for the tip, scrolling mouse while holding button was not really the best practise 12:32:10 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:32:55 kenanb: so how do you call it? 12:33:30 i am trying to call it with (cl-ies:parse-ies "/some/ies/file.ies") 12:33:45 And how do you invent that file.ies? 12:34:07 I told you, no telepathy today! 12:34:20 -!- alanpearce_ [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Quit: alanpearce_] 12:34:54 it is a photometry file: http://www.intencitylighting.com/pdf/GL-50%20LED%20Garage%20Lighting%20IES%20File.IES 12:34:54 like that one 12:35:36 SO I get an error: IES LM-63-2002 Standard requires TEST (Test Report Number) keyword. 12:35:44 In the function: 0: (cl-ies::noncompliance-reaction "LM-63-2002" "TEST (Test Report Number)") 12:36:06 And in the package, #. 12:37:21 In match-body, you have (read-from-string key); if you are reading symbols, they're interned in *package*, which is different when you're in CL-USER than when you're in CL-IES. 12:37:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:38:08 pjb: hmm, how can I solve that? 12:38:22 (let ((*package* (find-package "CL-IES"))) (read-from-string key)) 12:38:25 that is probably the part my code breaks 12:38:38 Or, if you only have a symbol name in key, (intern key "CL-IES") 12:38:53 and (intern key "KEYWORD") 12:39:03 But I wonder why you need two symbols, in different packages 12:40:06 When you return a list (in contrast to a cons), don't use car and cadr on it, but first and second. 12:40:10 I made both the keyword and the slot version because I used symbol to compare against slots of class and keyword as a feed to make-instance in parse-ies 12:40:56 ok. 12:41:12 So you definitely need to intern it in your package. 12:41:32 (list (intern key "CL-IES") (intern key "KEYWORD")) would be better than read-from-string. 12:41:56 pjb: in-fact i think it would be a much better approach to compare against the initargs of classes so don't duplicate the keyword as a symbol 12:43:31 well, if the initargs are not in the public API (ie. if you don't expect users of your package to make instances themselves), you could also use the slot-name as init-arg (slot :initarg slot) so that you can (make-instance class 'slot value) 12:43:42 But otherwise it's ok. 12:44:07 You can write (loop for (slot-name initarg-keyword) = (match-body line)  12:45:27 ok, I'll work on that now, 12:47:11 pjb: one last question,http://paste.lisp.org/display/128537#3 12:47:19 this is the macro version of parse-ies function 12:48:03 i first wrote it as a macro then decided it complicates things since i am not good with macroexpansion time runtime things yet 12:48:17 No, there's no need for a macro here. 12:48:35 ah, ok, so defun it is 12:49:20 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:49:25 thanks pjb, it was going to take me a lifetime to figure this out myself 12:50:47 Macros are for when you need a new syntax. 12:51:04 When you want to write a new control structure, like if, loop, handler-case, etc. 12:51:43 If arguments to your operator are code of which you want to control the execution, then you write a macro. Otherwise a function. 12:53:26 i see, one tends to think a macro can make things easier when lost in list manipulation 12:53:37 osa1_ [~sinan@88.241.63.204] has joined #lisp 12:54:21 Not at all. 12:54:23 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.241.63.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:54:32 kenanb: but functionnal abstraction can. 12:55:55 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:39 anyway, since I know the main issue with my code now, i can finally sleep for some time, thanks again pjb, I really appreciate it 12:57:28 if only there was a like button below your name :) 12:58:21 -!- dobroerlanger [591f76a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.31.118.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:43 (incf pjb) works like that :-) 12:59:43 was there a counter for such things when there was a channel bot around really? 13:00:31 (incf pjb) 13:00:43 that would indeed be quite cool 13:00:54 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:51 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 13:02:53 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 13:02:55 Now you've replaced pjb with another faceless number. 13:03:50 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:04:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:05:12 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:14 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1233.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:07:17 hi. what should I use to parse (possibly malformed) html? 13:08:08 qnavry [~cow@c114-76-42-96.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:08:44 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:09:47 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:10:12 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:03 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:50 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:51 stassats` [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-35-26.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 13:12:52 -!- stassats` [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-35-26.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 13:12:52 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:13:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:13:28 -!- DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:19:18 ASau` [~user@95-24-102-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:22:11 sezo: http://common-lisp.net/project/closure/closure-html/ 13:22:15 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:16 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:22:16 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:22:54 thanks 13:24:08 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-232-151.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:24:28 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.64.66] has joined #lisp 13:27:59 -!- ASau` [~user@95-24-102-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:29:19 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 what do you guys think about hash tables? 13:33:33 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:50 they hash things, store in a table 13:34:21 not much to think about 13:34:30 hash tables are yummy 13:35:15 tables made out of hashish? 13:35:33 omg 13:35:47 Well, i wondered if there is any 'bad form' in using hash tables rather than lists, in lisp. 13:35:56 in some ways hash tables seem to make things so simple. 13:35:58 em: no. 13:36:04 em: what made you think so? 13:36:07 And looking up and setting things in hash tables is constant time 13:36:16 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:35 stassats`: I don't know. Just the general commonality of the expression, "That's bad form". 13:36:38 it's a bad form to use inappropriate data structures, when you have access to appropriate ones 13:37:19 I thought maybe using hash-tables might be cheating in a similar way that using "set" is cheating because you are sort of doing something proceduraly or using side-effects. 13:37:20 em: what gave the impression that using anything, apart from lists, is a bad form? 13:37:56 luckily, Common Lisp is a procedural language 13:37:59 em: "cheating" whom? 13:38:12 stassats`: it might not be purely functional or "the lisp way". 13:38:30 em: purely functional is not a lisp way 13:38:32 em: the lisp way is 10000 ways and lisp is not purely functional. 13:38:43 stassats`: that is debatable 13:38:56 stassats`: i.e. functional is one of the 10000 ways 13:39:06 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 13:39:14 the lisp way is to do things in the most sensible way 13:39:20 Well the type of lisp I use is Scheme. I thought this question was of a general enough nature though. 13:39:33 pjb: your intern additions did the job beautifully :) 13:39:35 H4ns: functional, yes, but not purely 13:40:00 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081EE29.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:13 em: note that this channel is about Common Lisp, #scheme is another way 13:40:16 stassats`: i often write purely functional code, but i never restrict myself to that. 13:40:45 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 13:40:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:41:29 maybe people who use scheme are more academic while people who use common lisp are more industrious. 13:41:49 maybe generalizations will get you nowhere fast 13:42:31 doesn't it apply mostly tho? that's the impression i got. i'm relatively new at CL, never used scheme 13:43:17 when i instance a class defined in my cl-ies lib, the instance is created like # is the normal behavior of a lib to create the instance as part of the lib package or the package user is in while creating the instance? 13:43:52 don't confuse symbols and what symbols are referring to 13:45:55 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:33 -!- Kreol[UKR] [~quassel@85.198.173.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:44 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5baee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:46 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:48:06 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 13:48:13 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:49:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:29 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:51:10 stassats`: consider you wrote a lib, part of it makes instances of a class, would the outputting instance be like # or # 13:51:19 or would it make no difference? 13:51:39 classes has nothing to do with this, it's all about packages and symbols 13:52:02 it would be printed BAR if it's accessible in the current package, FOO:BAR if it's not 13:55:51 vantage|2 [~vantage@109.131.64.66] has joined #lisp 13:55:59 -!- vantage|2 [~vantage@109.131.64.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:01 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 14:00:17 so how can I make a function that is defined in that library package define the symbol that refers to that instance in the package I call the function from 14:01:18 god, I am the silliness threshold of the channel today 14:03:02 a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma 14:03:24 kenanb can you elaborate what you want to do 14:03:42 i know, kenanb wants to learn packages 14:04:08 why this works? (search "foo" "foo bar") 14:04:30 because it's specified to do so 14:04:31 i did not do :test 'equal 14:04:41 it compares character by character 14:04:53 they're comparable by EQL 14:05:10 oh! 14:05:19 thought it compares substrings 14:05:26 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:47 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:33 kenanb: that's a little hard to parse, but I'm pretty sure that the answer is that it's symbols that live in packages, rather than the objects they refer to. # is the unreadable printed form of an object, not a symbol. 14:07:02 ASau [~user@93-80-57-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:08:05 and the default form of # is implementation dependant, don't sweat it, and you can over ride it by defining a method on print-object. 14:08:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:42 mathslinux [~user@118.186.129.155] has joined #lisp 14:13:27 doh, I should watch those quit messages when I'm typing 14:13:34 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:11 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.52] has joined #lisp 14:16:37 it can be hard with people coming and going all the time 14:17:08 I wrote an xchat plugin that tracks the people who have spoken in a channel, and only displays parts/quits from those people 14:17:40 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:18:25 guess I should put it on github 14:18:37 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:19:05 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.64.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:47 i'd take something which made text of the recently departed speaker faded or some other color 14:20:37 -!- mathslinux [~user@118.186.129.155] has left #lisp 14:22:41 that'd be neat, but outside the capabilities of the plugin architecture, I think 14:23:22 well, i don't use xchat, should be doable for ERC 14:24:03 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 14:24:04 tensorpudding_ [~michael@108.87.21.106] has joined #lisp 14:25:00 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:27:07 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081EE29.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:12 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 14:29:27 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:27 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:29:27 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 14:30:23 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 14:37:32 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:38:06 iLogical [~iLogical@187.112.151.157] has joined #lisp 14:39:10 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:39:21 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 14:39:42 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:40:28 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-198.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:48 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 14:42:39 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-143-234.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@67-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:58 kenanb "<15:00:13> so how can I make a function that is defined in that library package define the symbol that refers to that instance in the package I call the function from" 14:47:21 functions are not defined in a package. The defining form may be read in some package, but this is irrelevant to the function definition. 14:47:46 (in-package "P1") (defun f (x) (* 2 x)) 14:47:53 (in-package "CL-USER") (defun p1::f (x) (* 2 x)) 14:48:02 define the same function. 14:48:18 symbols are not defined, they're interned. 14:48:34 instances are not in packages. 14:49:11 class names are symbols, and symbols may be in packages. (but there are also homeless symbols that are not imported in any package). 14:49:17 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:20 he's not here, you know 14:49:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:50:04 tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.192] has joined #lisp 14:50:51 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:51:18 -!- tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.192] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:51:45 tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.192] has joined #lisp 14:52:32 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-198.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:47 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:59 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-240-56.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:05 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@88.241.63.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:38 Oh, I saw Vivitron answer him and no quit after; didn't see him quit before :-( 14:56:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@187.112.151.157] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:57:07 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:58:18 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128092141.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:58:38 osa1_ [~sinan@88.241.63.204] has joined #lisp 15:03:01 ikki [~ikki@90-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:04 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-240-56.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:47 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEF31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:05 urandom__ [~user@p548A2274.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:55 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@111.15.150.162] has joined #lisp 15:15:08 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 15:15:09 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:16:04 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:19:51 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:21:33 mathslinux [~user@117.79.233.210] has joined #lisp 15:21:55 is there a hash table like structure that keeps the order of insertions 15:21:58 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 15:22:16 A threaded hash-table. 15:22:21 But why do you want this? 15:22:21 hashtable+list 15:23:17 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@111.15.150.162] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:24:21 want to print entries by the order i got them 15:24:33 Why? 15:24:43 is threaded hash hash-table + list or something smarter 15:25:09 because i prefer the order of creation than a random one 15:25:19 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:25:43 So, no actual reason, then. 15:26:14 thought i just gave a reason 15:26:19 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 15:26:24 No. That's just a whim. 15:26:27 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 15:26:54 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:40 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1192.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:09 a whim is a perfectly valid reason 15:28:52 No. It isn't a reason at all. 15:29:36 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:29:49 It might be used as a justification, but arbitrary things cannot be reasons. 15:32:05 -!- mathslinux [~user@117.79.233.210] has left #lisp 15:34:00 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:34:15 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-102.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:20 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:34:24 pjb: "04:53:46 * [6502] just discovered that (setf #'foo #'bar) is not legal 05:05:15 [6502]: yes. function is like quote. You cannot change an immutable literal object. 05:05:34 (setf (Function f) ) is like (setf 42 )" 15:34:29 ^-- I don't think that's a sound analysis. On a fundamental level, in some dialect (setf #'foo #'bar) could simply have behavior analogous to (setf foo bar) (the only real difference being function vs variable namespace)... 15:34:34 And (setf (function foo) bar) is not at all like (setf 42 bar). (setf 42 bar) would be a bit like (setf (lambda ()) bar), which wasn't the scenario in question. I'm sure you know the difference between objects and bindings... 15:34:56 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:35:45 Hex: Were #'foo to mean (symbol-function 'foo) ... 15:36:15 I don't hate the idea of (setf #'foo #'bar), honestly. It could help with writing functional code with less FUNCALLing. And there need not be a performance penalty when it's not used, since the compiler can statically determine if (setf #'foo) is used or not. 15:36:18 Hex: The problem is more that function is overloaded to conflate function generation and function location. 15:36:55 Hex: Consider #'(lambda (a) a) 15:37:11 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.21.106] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 15:38:13 Well, LAMBDA could be made a special form and we'd use #' only for named functions, then? #'(lambda ()) is already legacy anyway. 15:38:22 It could have been. 15:40:42 why does (defun len (x) (length x)) give me an unbound variable error? 15:41:13 nialo-: It shouldn't... Are you sure you're using a CL implementation? 15:41:13 because you forgot to use the CL package 15:41:25 hm, ok 15:41:39 Try cl:length instead. 15:41:41 Is it also telling you that the function X is undefined?... 15:41:53 And maybe cl:defun :) 15:41:55 I get: Unbound variable: LEN 15:41:55 [Condition of type UNBOUND-VARIABLE] 15:42:07 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 15:42:13 cl:defun should fix that, then you can look at importing. 15:42:15 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42:20 ok, thanks :) 15:42:31 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:44 don't use cl:defun, just add CL to the use-list 15:42:47 oh 15:43:02 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-236-146.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:43:02 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A011.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:02 drysdam [~dr@pool-71-161-95-235.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:02 Posterdati [~tapioca@host249-171-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:43:02 enn_ [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:02 rson [~randy@c-68-32-170-89.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:02 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:43:14 it's because I'm dumb and typed (def len stuff) instead of (defun len stuff) 15:43:16 :( 15:43:17 And then you get to see what "symbol conflict" means. 15:43:44 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest32072 15:44:06 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:44:42 paul0`` [~user@201.47.47.73.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 tensorpudding [~michael@108.87.21.106] has joined #lisp 15:46:14 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:47:50 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 15:48:24 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 15:49:25 morning 15:49:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:50 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:51:59 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:00 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-43-65.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 15:53:47 RomyRomy [~stickycak@70.88.154.33] has joined #lisp 15:53:48 stickycake [~stickycak@70.88.154.33] has joined #lisp 15:54:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:58:24 gustavderdrache [~Adium@c-69-136-236-122.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:57 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:07 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:08 -!- kanru` [~user@61-228-146-12.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:02:14 -!- ysph [~user@68-191-98-185.dhcp.dctr.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:08 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:16 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 16:06:38 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:08:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:03 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:09:05 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:09:34 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:10:09 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 16:15:19 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:34 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:18:36 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:41 Hi! For those interested in testing: I put CL eval bot on #lisp-repl again. There are a couple of new features. 16:22:21 12 years of SBCL development, courtesy Gource: http://youtu.be/ZGeR37RDrd0 16:22:49 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:12 dtw: I expect that its only use will be sandbox breakout attempts 16:23:19 Fade: what does it tell me? 16:23:39 most of the info I got out of it was social. 16:24:00 *stassats`* skips forward to see himself 16:24:34 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:03 now i'm dizzy 16:25:07 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:25:31 well, 12 years in ~5 mintues, things move. 16:27:18 benny` [~benny@i577A7C69.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:52 -!- qnavry [~cow@c114-76-42-96.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:53 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:27:53 so, what do you mean by "social info"? 16:28:30 -!- pchrist_ is now known as pchrist 16:28:31 well, i didn't know who all the committers were of the project going back to the beginning, because I had never read the entire commit log. 16:32:25 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 16:34:22 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@70.88.154.33] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 16:34:23 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@70.88.154.33] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 16:42:04 i'm getting some confusing behavior doing use-package inside of a progn form 16:42:54 use-package? 16:42:55 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 16:43:07 yeah 16:43:20 in any case, the progn form is read wholesome before being evaluated 16:43:33 hmmm 16:43:49 that would intern read symbols into the current package, wouldn't it: 16:43:52 *it? 16:44:45 dobroerlanger [591f76a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.31.118.163] has joined #lisp 16:45:06 stickycake [~stickycak@70.88.154.33] has joined #lisp 16:45:06 RomyRomy [~stickycak@70.88.154.33] has joined #lisp 16:46:25 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:16 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 16:48:40 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DD4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:34 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:49:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:58 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:50:27 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:50:40 okay, so is it possible to (use-package :foo) within a progn, or should i brace for some awkward use of shadowing-import 16:50:46 or should I rethink this code? 16:52:07 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@88.241.63.204] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:52:22 osa1 [~sinan@88.241.63.204] has joined #lisp 16:53:34 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:53:46 Hello. Which Lisp/Scheme compiler implementation is really portable and has good Lisp->C->Lisp interface? 16:53:52 gustavderdrache: what are you trying to do? 16:54:07 ECL is really portable 16:54:22 stassats`: i'm teaching myself Lisp by writing a small project and some unit tests 16:54:33 gustavderdrache: that's too vague 16:54:45 and i wanted to wrap all the tests in a macro that set up and tore down the test environment 16:55:27 so it was (with-test-plan 5 (load "mycode.lisp") (use-package :foo) (ok (func 'value))) 16:55:51 i can't buld the gmp part for ecl for android.... 16:56:08 i get a linker error for -lsupc++......not found.... 16:56:14 bleh 16:56:16 stassats`: the unit tests are TAP style 16:56:45 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:56:48 gustavderdrache: why does the implementation need to be really really portable. common lisp in itself is really really portable, just use another implementation if you need it. 16:56:48 gustavderdrache: why do you need use-package? just use qualified symbols 16:57:02 stassats`:  16:57:11 that thought literally never occured to me 16:57:15 madnificent: dobroerlanger asked that question 16:57:25 ah sorry 16:57:35 dobroerlanger: read my question, respond! :P 16:58:06 madnificent: common lisp is portable, but performance model isn't 16:58:19 if you optimize for SBCL, it won't be as fast on other implementations 16:58:45 stassats`: did he ask about performance? (which you need to optimize per architecture anyways, if it matters that much) 16:59:00 alek_b_ [~alek_b@137.110.40.80] has joined #lisp 17:00:07 stassats`: i agree with your statement in itself though 17:00:31 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 17:00:42 stassats`: rats 17:00:50 it's telling me that there is no such package 17:00:53 madnificent: implementation must be portable, because if it isn't portable enough I can't use it, obviously :) 17:00:54 I've already failed to compile CLisp on Haiku, so I'm looking for something easy to build. 17:01:12 dobroerlanger: common lisp is an ansi standard 17:01:15 probably because the load runs inside the progn... 17:01:50 dobroerlanger: it's not going to change because you look at it with an angry eye. so if your code runs on sbcl (which supports less platforms than ecl) then you should be able to load it into ecl and be done with it. as long as you write a conforming program. :) 17:01:53 madnificent: I can't compile my code with standard itself 17:02:48 dobroerlanger: no, but you can with *any* conforming compiler. thus, if you need it to be portable, you can use *any* conforming compiler and later load the code in *any other* conforming compiler which targets the device you're targetting. 17:03:18 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@70.88.154.33] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 17:03:19 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@70.88.154.33] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 17:03:19 i don't think he wants to write a CL compiler, but instead compile one on haiku 17:03:39 -!- ainm [~ainm@109.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:03:52 ainm [~ainm@109.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:53 dobroerlanger: and conforming compilers to use because they are friendly for their users seem to be (in order SBCL CCL CLISP ECL) and that's the inverse of the order of portability as far is i can tell. that's why i try to pull them apart :) 17:04:52 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1233.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:07:57 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402650.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:46 sbcl too damn permissive 17:11:11 not a bad thing, but developing for sbcl always have to fix warnings later on clisp or such 17:13:46 maxm-: I only experience this with LOOP. 17:14:47 dobroerlanger ECL is your best bet. 17:14:49 FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:15:27 -!- FreeArtMan [~fam@93.177.213.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:54 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:03 pkhuong: other thing for me was clisp warnings on specialized defmethod arguments which were not used, SBCL does not 17:18:26 pkhuong: may be that SBCL is wrong there, but I think CCL does same thing. 17:18:46 maxm-: that shouldn't be a warning, and the standard says that specialised arguments are considered used. 17:18:57 pkhuong: before I forgot, got bitten by (decode-universal-time UT NIL) being accepted by SBCL but throwing error on lispworks recently 17:19:01 i find clisp to be pretty good at diagnosing pebcak in complex loop forms. 17:19:03 fwiw 17:19:09 pkhuong: ah clisp bug then 17:20:42 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:20:51 I wonder why the sequence functions (almost?) all accept NIL for default, but not d-u-t. 17:21:27 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:27:36 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:36 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Quit: time to be late to a weddiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing] 17:33:06 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5baee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:35:26 -!- dobroerlanger [591f76a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.31.118.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:35:45 -!- benny` is now known as benn 17:35:49 -!- benn is now known as benny 17:36:22 nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:09 -!- gustavderdrache [~Adium@c-69-136-236-122.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:41:03 default for KEY, but not for TEST 17:41:03 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:04 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:41:04 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 17:42:12 -!- achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 17:42:34 achiu [~achiu@ip68-96-95-213.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:54 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:46:26 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:47:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.14.230] has joined #lisp 17:49:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:11 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:51:45 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-25-166.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:41 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:01 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:03:21 dobroerlanger [591f76a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.31.118.163] has joined #lisp 18:04:21 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:06:23 Good morning/afternoon/evening 18:12:11 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:12 slothrop [~Evan@99-50-46-191.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:36 -!- slothrop [~Evan@99-50-46-191.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:00 Cosman246: Good time of the day! 18:15:39 (get-decoded-time) => 38, 15, 20, 24, 3, 2012, 5, nil, -2 18:17:28 (format nil "Good ~A!" (get-universal-time)) => "Good 3541601848!" 18:17:36 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:12 maxm-: actually sbcl gives more warnings than clisp. The point is that different compilers detect different errors and problems. That's why it's good to compile one's code with different compilers. 18:21:43 dtw: how generous. A good one second! 18:22:13 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-187265.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:22:33 pjb, those were the days^Wseconds. 18:22:45 ofcooper [~ofir@CBL217-132-227-178.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:24:51 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:27:35 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:28:29 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 18:36:52 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 18:37:41 what was the exact sequence of eval in an s-exp function like (foo bar baz bla) 18:38:58 bar->baz->bla->foo? 18:39:14 kenanb: thought so, yea. 18:39:34 Jovlang [~user@36.109-247-16.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:29 kenanb: the impl needs to know whether foo names a function or a macro before it can decide whether to evaluate the rest. 18:41:23 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:41:28 Ralith: ah, then if it turns out to be a function and all the important parts are argument sequence to that function? 18:41:42 I'm not sure what you're asking. 18:42:28 Ralith: pardon me I make no sense again, I mean, assume foo is a function, in which order will bar baz and bla will be evaluated? 18:42:50 kenanb: left to right. 18:43:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:03 but it's interesting to note, that CLHS explicitly says that it's undefined when foo will be evaluated first 18:44:14 s/first// 18:44:16 However, if it's a function, it can be "evaluated" last or first, or in the middle. 18:44:40 Ie. (defun foo (x) 1) (foo (setf (symbol-function 'foo) (lambda (x) 2))) can return 1 or 2. 18:47:32 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:47:39 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:47:58 pjb im not sure i understand. isnt (func (a) (b)) a always called before b? 18:48:27 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 18:48:59 it was just a list in this case, it reads a line for every key in the plist, but iI figured the ordering of values were wrong so I thought maybe I am wrong about eval order 18:49:16 sezo: it is 18:49:24 sezo: yes, a is called before b. But the resolution of func into (fdefinition func) may be done before after or in the middle of the evaluation of the arguments. 18:49:28 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-011.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:00 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.167] has joined #lisp 18:50:16 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:50:18 -!- Jovlang [~user@36.109-247-16.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:39 pjb: any idea what the rationale for that is? 18:50:51 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:50:54 Ralith: as always, some freedom to the compiler to optimize things. 18:51:22 can you describe a case where that enables an optimization that fixed-order lookup would prevent? 18:52:06 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.46.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:06 Ralith: you can save register/stack space when looking up function last (or almost last) 18:52:30 ah; interesting. 18:52:49 Ralith: you seem to need to learn assembler and to write a few assembler programs. 18:52:58 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:59 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:52:59 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 18:53:00 been there, done that 19:01:24 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 19:03:57 how can i fetch class of an object? 19:04:24 Damn! I didn't notice that ECL requires Boehm. Well, if I can't use CL, which Scheme with good Lisp->C->Lisp interfacing would you recommend? 19:04:46 sezo: class-of. 19:04:47 dobroerlanger: I don't think it requires it, IIRC, it also has the option of using its own GC. 19:04:52 thanks 19:05:00 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Client Quit] 19:05:04 dobroerlanger: but it's better to use Boehm since that allows to collect C garbage too. 19:05:22 dobroerlanger: what's the problem with BoehmGC? I think ECL had a flag to use its own (lower-performance) GC at some point. 19:06:25 pjb, with this option on, configure script fails with error, telling that boehm is needed :\ 19:06:54 Ok. 19:06:58 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 19:09:33 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:10:27 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:13:30 -!- drysdam [~dr@pool-71-161-95-235.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:14:02 would it be possible to create an alist from any random object of any type? with slot being a key and slot-value value 19:14:23 So, what a list would you create from 42? 19:14:31 42 is a random object of class integer. 19:14:37 (obj-to-alist (make-instance 'point :x 10 :y 20)) -> (:x 10 :y 20) 19:14:45 and of a number of different but embedded types. 19:14:50 I don't know what slots integer has 19:15:07 dobroerlanger: so .. give it boehm? 19:15:12 sezo: think about it. 19:15:20 (integer-length 42) => 6 19:15:53 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:39 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:42 Ralith: not ported. 19:17:10 to where? 19:17:16 Haiku. 19:17:19 ooh. 19:17:22 pjb not sure what your point is. (obj-to-alist 42) should fill alist with all slots and their values 19:17:31 What slots? 19:17:31 from 42 19:17:43 (:value 42 :length 6) 19:17:45 class slots. slot-value 19:17:59 (class-of 42) => # 19:18:06 You said random object of any type! 19:18:14 hmm 19:18:16 If you don't like 42, they dont' say random object of ANY TYPE! 19:18:32 i don't get why 42 is secial 19:18:35 special 19:18:53 It is not. 19:19:04 drysdam [~dr@pool-71-161-90-94.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:18 But then, for some classes, you may want to define an additionnal set of "accessors". 19:19:39 yes, but just slots will work for now 19:20:48 what i'm really asking is, is it possible to iterate through all the slots given some object 19:21:16 Yes, for standard-object instances, using the MOP. 19:21:34 But in most implementation, not for structure-object instances, and not for other lisp objects. 19:21:56 meaning defstruct? 19:22:05 Yes. 19:22:18 ok im only interested in defclass 19:24:09 sb-mop:... <- so i want this? 19:24:25 it's sbcl specific though 19:24:29 ngz [~user@198.111.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:30 sezo: no, you want closer-mop, no need to be gratuituously implementation dependant. 19:24:45 oh ok 19:24:53 http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/closer-mop.html 19:26:44 thanks 19:28:17 42 is pretty special, though :\ 19:28:40 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-187265.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:49 nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:17 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5baee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:32 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:31:50 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.150] has joined #lisp 19:32:27 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:32:38 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:20 -!- paul0`` is now known as paul0 19:35:15 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-407886.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:37:31 sykopomp: true, (sb-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'integer)) => 42! 19:37:47 pkhuong: ! 19:41:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:35 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:45:08 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:18 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 19:47:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:13 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:38 cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:28 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:51:11 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:51:42 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:51:47 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-169-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:01 nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:29 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:01:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-105-111.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:03:31 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5baee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 20:04:19 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 20:04:53 (sb-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'string)) => 42, should've been "42" 20:05:25 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:06:23 (maphash (lambda (&rest args) (print args)) (sb-mop:class-prototype (find-class 'hash-table))) => Unhandled memory fault at #xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF9 is less nice 20:11:27 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 20:12:59 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-228-104.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:58 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:09 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-240-66.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:15:23 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:16:26 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:48 DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@90-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:37 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:38 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2274.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:17 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:24:08 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:26:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:52 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:42 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:36:46 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:38:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-105-111.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:40:12 dobroerlanger_ [591f76a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.31.118.163] has joined #lisp 20:40:26 -!- dobroerlanger [591f76a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.31.118.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:41:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-105-111.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:43:49 is there a function for plists corresponding to pairlis of alists 20:44:51 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:44:55 kenanb: what would that function do? I did not understand your question 20:45:39 kenanb: (lambda (keys values) (loop for k in keys for v in values collect k collect v)) 20:45:40 (pairing-foo '(:a :b :c) '(1 2 3)) => '(:a 1 :b 2 :c 3) 20:46:14 (mapcan #'list '(:a :b :c) '(1 2 3)) 20:46:31 too. 20:48:51 thanks pjb stassats` i'll write your names as the authors instead of mine when the ies-parser is finished, this will effect your reputation in a bad way, but meh :) 20:50:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:37 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:55:35 nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:49 -!- ofcooper [~ofir@CBL217-132-227-178.bb.netvision.net.il] has left #lisp 20:57:58 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-105-111.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:01:22 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-46-145.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:33 sergv [~sergey@217.77.215.108] has joined #lisp 21:03:18 "thanks to #lisp, for their warm support and understanding" 21:03:55 hi, I want to have a class FOO with the metaclass HAS-TITLE which adds a slot to FOO with the name TITLE. What's the best way to do this with sb-mop? I've failed with trying trying to push an instance of SB-MOP:STANDARD-DIRECT-SLOT-DEFINITION to the class's direct slots 21:04:14 and I've failed by trying REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE 21:04:14 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-49-158.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:04:45 egn: are you sure that you need to use the mop for this? 21:05:08 H4ns: I'm not sure 21:05:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128543 21:05:32 augment the ensure-class-using-class method 21:06:01 egn: why don't you just inherit the title slot from a base class? 21:06:21 H4ns: Because I want the accessor to be FOO-TITLE 21:06:38 not sure if I can do that with inheritance 21:07:00 egn: sure. you can just override the options for an inherited slot in a derived class 21:07:13 Man 21:07:26 why not just use TITLE? 21:07:30 There are some real madmen on c.l.l 21:07:45 stassats: Yeah, maybe I'll just do that 21:07:51 Cosman246: please keep c.l.l in c.l.l 21:08:41 OK, OK 21:13:13 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Quit: o/]