00:00:00 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:52 hugod [~user@209.133.115.80] has joined #lisp 00:03:31 Or "uncomment one of the following" 00:04:57 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:57 -!- loktigon- [~loktigon@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:58 -!- Riz_ [~Riz_@75.57.171.22] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:58 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:58 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:58 -!- November [november@osiris.parodius.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:58 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:58 -!- dsp_ [~dsp@134.117.69.79] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:58 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:04:58 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:05:00 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEF31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:05:04 dsp_ [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 00:05:23 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 00:05:40 I actually don't know if there's a way to do that. Because the variables are set using Heroku's command line tool 00:06:08 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-77-152.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:21 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 loktigon- [~loktigon@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 Riz_ [~Riz_@75.57.171.22] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 November [november@osiris.parodius.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:42 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-035-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:06:54 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:21 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:21 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:07:21 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 00:07:25 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:13 ok 00:09:16 *Xach* is unfamiliar 00:10:24 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:11:57 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:14:01 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:16:07 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-116-145.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:20:26 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-121.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:13 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 00:24:30 I think I found a way though :) 00:25:51 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:27:28 -!- hugod [~user@209.133.115.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:28:19 TDT [~user@50-83-108-248.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:53 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:29:56 Hey all. Not sure how many people have experience with StumpWM. I saw someone basically asked the same question I'm about to. The steps described in the logs didn't work for me. So, I have a system, arch linux, sbcl and am trying to setup stumpwm. I downloaded the git repository, did an LC_ALL=C ./configure, then make, then got it to boot just fine. It's complaining about unable to decode octet. The LC_ALL should be taking car eof 00:29:57 that, according to the logs, but it's not for me. Are there any ideas about what's causing this? 00:30:52 "The octer sequence (194) cannot be decoded" is the specific error 00:31:28 No it isn't. 00:31:31 What's the full real error? 00:32:05 Well, unfortunately stumpwm doesn't really seem to give a nice way to access the full stack trace, at least not a way that I know of. This is what it give me, specifically trying to load a contrib module. 00:33:54 cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:07 bagrelm [~bagrelm@c-71-207-165-211.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:16 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 00:34:17 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 00:35:03 Hello everyone. 00:35:06 What's itneresting is that some reports seem to show that the encoding is :utf8 for some, and it's :ascii for me, which is kinda odd. my ~/.sbclrc is set to use utf8 00:35:53 does anyone have experience interfacing cl with twitter? I'd like to know which package out there is good to use. 00:36:11 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 00:37:46 Sebboh [~hobbes@unaffiliated/sebboh] has joined #lisp 00:38:10 -!- gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:38:20 TDT: What happens if you use the stumpwm from quicklisp? (I don't know how the versions compare) 00:38:31 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 00:39:45 TDT: your problem comes from LANG=C 00:39:56 TDT: I have same problem if I try to start SBCL with LANG=C 00:40:16 thom_logn [~thom@pool-173-60-243-134.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:20 TDT: try LANG=en_US 00:40:33 LANG=en_US.UTF-8 usually solves these kinds of issues for me 00:40:47 TTD: or LANG=en_US.UTF-8 00:41:03 *nod* yeah tried that maxm-. I edited the ~/.stumpwmrc to set the default format there...although it froze the system right off the bat, but it's different than it was..so that's a plus? 00:41:32 TDT: or you can force it by doing (sb-impl::*default-external-format* :utf-8) from sbclrc 00:41:33 If a lisp environment is listed on cliki as a CL... Does that mean ... anything? What guarentees come with the Common Lisp title? 00:42:11 TDT: I get the 195 octet error even before starting stumpwm, just by loading sbcl from command line with LANG=C 00:42:23 Basically I'm trying to decided if I should use ABCL instead of Clojure, because I have a vague idea that CL is good and I should stick near it. 00:42:24 one of the libraries it tries to load, probably has author name or such with umlaut 00:42:47 thus it needs 8-bit clean LANG, C is translated to :ascii, which is 7-bit in SBCL 00:43:14 TDT: just try my suggestion. Do LANG=en_US then start stumpwm 00:43:29 Sebboh: Whatever the ANSI standard guarantees is guaranteed 00:44:03 the offending library is :stefil (for me), error is the octet sequence (195) cannot be decoded 00:44:05 Sebboh: If they actually have right to the title. AFAIK there is no certification 00:44:12 Sebboh: ABCL is CL. Clojure is not. 00:44:22 maxm-: same issue, I built the binary and symlinked it. 00:44:38 maxm-: Also found it dropped me to a debugger (not that I could tell) once I tried forcing the decoding issue with a setf 00:45:02 TDT: so try two things, I'm not sure if value of LANG when you compiled it gets remembered, of if SBCL image re-initializes it on each start.. Lets assume the latter 00:45:46 TDT: simply do LANG=en_US then start stumpwm. If you don't know how to do it, tell me how you starting stamp, and i'll help 00:46:31 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 00:46:33 maxm-: I ruled out the first part, i exported LANG=en_US, did a make clean and make, then restarted (still with variable set) and received the same issue. 00:46:48 TDT: ok, now do same thing before starting it 00:47:15 if you still getting the same thing, you sure that LANG is exported? simply doing LANG=whatever will have no effect it there was no prior export on it 00:47:31 try export LANG=en_US (before the line starting stump) 00:47:33 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:38 maxm-: In my ~/.xinitrc I'm just doing a /usr/local/bin/stumpwm, where that was created by checking out the git repository and doing a configure, make, etc...although I'm using QL for part of this. 00:47:50 maxm-: Added the lang line before the stumpwm execution, same issue. 00:47:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-69-143-121-232.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:05 maxm-: what does LANG=en_US mean? 00:48:27 TDT: can you lisppaste the output of "locale -a"? 00:48:31 Xach: sets the language, it finds the file in /usr/share/locale based on it 00:49:02 maxm-: what does it use for the encoding? 00:49:07 Xach: at least on my system, this affects SBCL's default sb-impl::*default-external-format* 00:49:46 does saved image SBCL still load ~/.sbclrc? 00:50:16 totzeit1 [~kirkwood@207.239.114.206] has joined #lisp 00:50:18 Xach: I think you may have it. locale -a is saying it can't set "LC_CTYPE, messages, and collate. The last two lines are C and POSIX. That's..interesting. can't save the output due to this being on a new machine and X isn't working very well at teh moment. 00:50:30 he can stick (setf sb-impl::*default-external-format* :utf-8) in there 00:50:31 ah 00:50:41 you probably missing all LC stuff 00:50:45 maxm-: yeah did that, and it froze X pretty bad 00:51:03 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:51:06 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 00:51:27 Well, the directories exist in /usr/share/locale, but I'll check the arch man pages on this..maybe I goofed something up 00:51:39 TDT: you can try starting in this way (thats how I start it) 00:52:10 WINODWMANAGER=/usr/local/bin/stumpwm startx 00:52:35 then once it "froze" you can Ctrl-Alt-F1 back to console, and see any error output, if it got into debugger, output should be there 00:54:19 Yeah, first time it happened I thought the whole machine went down, second time found it. It started having issues reading the characters in the conf file..probably after I forced it to be set differently. I found a conf thing in arch that sets the system wide locale, rebooted and am trying that now 00:54:41 I think this is the 2nd time I was bitten by locale issues... 00:55:09 TDT: this is what LANG=en_US strace sbcl 2>&1 | grep LC_ shows for me: open("/usr/share/locale/locale.alias", O_RDONLY), open("/usr/lib/locale/en_US/LC_IDENTIFICATION", O_RDONLY) basically around 10 files 00:55:20 with LANG=C it opens none of those, and gives the octet error 00:58:40 TDT: whats in your ~/.stumpwmrc are you loading lots of contrib modules? 00:58:44 Looks like it's not working. So, apparently arch linux doesn't have locales set by default...so I had to edit /etc/locales.gen, uncomment out a few, then generate them, then set them in /etc/rc.conf. PITA... 00:58:54 errr looks like it's now working. 00:59:09 Yay! 00:59:41 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 00:59:46 ok, through preseverince and magic of tinkering, humans 1, computer 0 01:00:08 arch has a nice install guide on their wiki, probably worth at least skimming 01:00:11 I'm just surprised this locale thing bit me..again 01:00:39 Read it about 5 times so far, at least the macbook section. It's...horribly out of date. Had to write my own wiki page just to solve 3 days of fighting. 01:00:46 literally took me 3 days to install this on my MBA 01:01:05 sbcl is like that super-strict father than knows best.. It rather throw signal then quietly ignore an encoding error :-) 01:01:20 even if its probably french author name in the source file comment 01:01:25 ah! well, I'm jealous of your MBA with stumpwm if not your epic battle 01:01:59 thats why I prefer to hire scottish dba's 01:02:02 Vivitron: It was a lot of work, but I'm happy where it's at. had to customize a lot to get it working, but it's working fairly well overall. 01:02:08 maxm-: sbcl skips encoding errors in comments, but it will barf if it's in code (e.g. :author "Günter" in the system file) 01:02:13 -!- totzeit1 [~kirkwood@207.239.114.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:02:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:02:51 -!- loktigon- [~loktigon@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:59 Xach: well what is weird in his case, is that its a compiled image.. Stumpwm Makefile does asdf load itself, then does save-image-and-die 01:03:08 totzeit1 [~kirkwood@207.239.114.206] has joined #lisp 01:03:36 should not be really loading any systems when it start? so my only suspect is ~/.stumpwmrc and (load) of $STUMPWM/contrib/ modules from it 01:04:07 if only we had a full backtrace 01:04:39 *maxm-* gets full backtrace if I start it with WINDOWMANAGER=stumpwm startx 01:05:01 not sure of TDT startup scenario, it may be in ~/.xsession_errors or in /var/log/Xorg.log 01:06:15 maxm-: unfortunately, the Xorg.log file doesn't log any of the lisp errors, just the errors coming from X itself. 01:09:36 -!- totzeit1 [~kirkwood@207.239.114.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:10:53 maxm-: speaking of stumpwm did you solve the fail on unboud group error? (your paste http://paste.lisp.org/display/127814 ) 01:14:14 Vivitron: yes, I found all the cases (took like a week) and added checks for it.. Let me see all of them, a sec 01:15:10 hmm..I think the battery contrib module is out of date 01:16:36 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0C6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:00 - 01:17:22 Vivitron: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128386 01:17:43 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:55 Vivitron: not a real patch, just to show places.. I used :nogroup instead of unbound slot, so its easier to see if it was being unbound, or was that way from make-instance 01:18:40 Vivitron: also I have 3 programs that cause this, gnubiff, notify-osd, and interactive brokers trading workstation.. Seems to be related to mapping and unmapping windows really quickly 01:18:49 -!- wonderin [~workflow@178-83-8-30.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:19:00 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-184-186.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:19:12 Vivitron: I have it on my todo list to make a test case out of gnubiff popup window logic (simplest of the 3), simply running it in a loop 100 times out to do it 01:20:13 I started getting occasionally on launching one of my programs, thanks this should save me some pain 01:20:17 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-184-186.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:21:52 Vivitron: actually its not all of them, its just unstaged ones, added annotation 01:22:09 roger 01:23:44 ravster: there's cl-twitter. i haven't tried it though. 01:24:41 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Quit: solussd] 01:24:56 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 01:26:21 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:36 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 01:28:22 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:26 *maxm-* outta move cleaning up and publishing his stump fork, it kind of has many stability patches... problem is also few enchancement patches whith I submitted but no one apply, so got to rebase and split it up 01:30:06 ravster: I think cl-twitter was a little out-of-date last time I checked (maybe a month ago). It may work fine, but some parameters weren't implemented. 01:30:10 going back to coding before "shh gestapo" shows up 01:30:25 Yay! 01:32:14 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:32:20 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:29 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-141-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:48 Hello, I'm really stuck on my lisp game and I could really use a fresh perspective. I'm trying to include some C++ libraries and short of exclusively using ECL or building DLLs, I can't figure out how to add them to lisp. I'm really stuck using some of them, like bullet and I'm running into problems memory mapping structures with the asset import library. Do you have any better ideas? 01:33:02 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010705.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:19 WarWeasle: have you looked at the docs and examples for CFFI? 01:33:36 oh, C++ libraries 01:33:41 WarWeasle: It is often mentioned here that C++ does not play nicely with Lisp (or is that just SBCL?) 01:33:42 that's trickier 01:33:54 C++ doesn't play nicely with any other language 01:34:00 C++ doesn't play nicely with *anything* 01:34:04 including itself 01:34:11 dlowe: Yup. I've been through the structures and types, and it claims to have a C interface, it's not equivelant. 01:34:21 C++ doesn't even play nicely with itself! 01:34:23 WarWeasle: I wrote tiny wrapper library for my stuff, using boost::shared_ptr<> to pass pointers to lisp and back 01:34:24 p_l: I'll agree with that. 01:34:30 You cannot mix libraries compiled with different C++ compilers. 01:34:46 maxm-: Can you alaborate? 01:34:47 on lisp side I use finalization hook to call dereference on shared ptrs when they are GC'ed 01:34:56 WarWeasle: I think you'll be either ditching the library or using C++ 01:34:56 WarWeasle: if there's an 'extern "C"' interface, you can access that with CFFI 01:35:04 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: good night] 01:35:15 alternatively, you can try seeing if SWIG will divine such an interface for you 01:35:25 p_l: It has one, but it still doesn't work correctly. 01:35:31 which will depend on how much crack the authors used 01:35:47 I bet you're trying to use Unity or Ogre 01:35:54 WarWeasle: if it has a C interface, use the C interface. 01:35:57 p_l: I already wrote a swig dll for bullet... It works, but there has to be a better way. 01:35:58 WarWeasle: basically start a separate file called lisp_iface.c++.. You can use extern "C" { any function inside will have C linking names (without mangling).. Define your entry points functions here } 01:36:04 WarWeasle: why does there have to be? 01:36:25 C++ is really, really nasty to work with. 01:36:36 it does not interoperate. 01:36:51 maxm-: So you wrote some C++ to export the functions and such? 01:37:04 WarWeasle: he wrote by hand what swig autogenerated. 01:37:07 it's otherwise equivalent. 01:37:30 WarWeasle: I wrote by hand with lots of helper macros, kind of simular to commonqt 01:37:43 Ralith: Assimp's extern C library doesn't line up with cffi's memory. 01:37:50 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:37:54 WarWeasle: what is that supposed to mean? 01:38:05 CFFI doesn't own memory. 01:38:14 nor does it enforce any kind of alignment. 01:38:26 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 01:38:58 Ralith: The structures that are exported don't line up with their C equivalents. CFFI works fine, but C++ adds extra padding and indirection. 01:39:00 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:18 WarWeasle: I pass stuff to/from C functions as whatever &obj, with whatever being typedef for boost::shared_ptr 01:39:25 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:39:50 -!- TDT [~user@50-83-108-248.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:40:23 maxm-: Is this in a dll? 01:40:38 on lisp side I define these as pointer to struct {void *px, *pi}, and just keep that pointer in a object.. Object has a finalizer hook, that calls into C to release_object(ref &obj) 01:40:54 WarWeasle: unix DLL (.so lib) 01:41:20 WarWeasle: what structures are you talking about? What equivalents? 01:41:22 maxm-: That's exactly what I was planning. At least the finilizers part. 01:41:24 WarWeasle: it requires that you derive all your objects from same root on C++ side, so all can be casted to base class to call destructor 01:41:25 If you are using a C API, there are no issues. 01:41:25 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:41:38 if you are not using a C API, your goal is impossible. 01:42:10 Is there a lisp that I could just compile these libraries into? 01:42:16 boost::shared_ptr is basically just two void *pointers 01:42:26 you can copy it around as opaque two words 01:42:29 WarWeasle: C++ does not interoperate. 01:42:34 you can access a C API via CFFI. 01:42:40 that is all there is to it. 01:42:56 :( 01:43:05 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:43:21 so lisp side will always just have 1 reference (referenc will get incremented when you have extern "C" get_some_obj(boost::shared_ptr &ret) { ret = real_get_some_obj() } 01:43:39 when above code assigns "ret" (which gets passed to lisp side), it increments the refcount by 1 01:44:09 then on lisp side you just keep these 2 pointers around (on lisp side you define the function as having pointer to struct shared_ptr (void *pi, *px) 01:44:11 maxm-: WarWeasle is not asking how to do memory management in C++. 01:44:25 WarWeasle: some lisps are capable of compiling to C++. You may want to use one of those. 01:44:33 maxm-: I think I've seen that somewhere. Did you work on the lisp physics library? 01:44:49 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 01:44:58 WarWeasle: no its my proprientary stuff, but commonqt uses kind of simular techniques, except based on QObject 01:45:33 WarWeasle: incidentally, you don't need to do any of the things maxm- is talking about. 01:46:07 Ralith: ECL can compile in C++. Are there any others? 01:46:11 Ralith: thats fine I just described what I'm doing. Person skilled in the art should be able to deduce my technique from above description.. 01:46:18 WarWeasle: probably some schemes. 01:46:41 Ralith: I was thinking of using tinyScheme... 01:46:41 I'd use ECL if I shared your inexplicable allergy to dynamic libraries. 01:47:33 Ralith: It just doubles my work. I have to write a function for every function. 01:48:15 bind them as you need them, or use SWIG to autogenrate the whole deal. 01:48:22 WarWeasle: yea thats kind of a problem.. I'm thinking of switching to some kind of auto-generator, will investigate smoke, as apparently it can cover any C++ lib not just Kde/qt 01:48:34 maxm-: So you boost's smart pointer to keep refcounts, which you store in a cffi pointer? 01:48:49 (the pointer in cffi, not the refcount) 01:49:34 WarWeasle: Yes.. the shared_ptr itself does not contain refcount, it contains pointer to object, and pointer to refcount.. I keep these two as cffi pointers in a CLOS instance 01:50:20 Ralith: sadly, it's almost as much work to write the dll manually. Most complex libraries don't really work well with swig. Bullet for example, uses structs instead of classes, which makes swig ignore their methods. 01:50:39 then I have (release-instance obj) which calls C function, which calls into extern "C" releasle_instance (boost::shared_ptr &obj) { obj.reset() } 01:50:44 maxm-: and then a closure with the pointers held in the finalizer. 01:50:46 ? 01:50:51 which will call destructor on obj, if no other references exist 01:51:15 WarWeasle: yes, you have to be tricky there as not to have teh closure have reference to object itself, let me see how I done it 01:52:53 maxm-: Can't you just store it, lisp doesn't make a new pointer, it should just reference the first one. 01:53:05 WarWeasle: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128387 (code is a huge mess, sorry) 01:53:16 also it uses sbcl ffi not cffi 01:53:21 but similar concepts 01:53:38 maxm-: ECL? 01:53:45 no this is SBCL 01:54:15 as you can see, the closure can't have reference to object itself, but closes over the raw px/pi values (components of boost::shared_ptr) 01:54:20 I didn't realize sbcl named it's ffi ffi...ok, I guess that does make sense. 01:54:55 -!- ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:55:05 maxm-: Ok..that makes perfect sense now. 01:55:08 *maxm-* is embarrassed by above code but well.. it works 01:55:27 WarWeasle: it's called sb-alien. 01:55:56 pkhuong: SBCL's interface? 01:56:04 additional complication that my c++ lib did not anticipated being lispified, so my objects don't derive from same root, hence free-func 01:56:41 so I have different (return-shared-ptr obj obj-type-specific-release-func) for each function that returns an object reference 01:57:17 but if you derive all objects from same thing, you can use boost::something_cast and have single release function for all of them 01:57:30 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:54 maxm-: that would solve some of the difficulity. 01:58:23 maxm-: less code = good. 01:58:53 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-221-78.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:27 loktigon [~loktigon@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:54 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 02:02:02 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:02:50 lemoinem [~swoog@69-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:12 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:34 KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.229.32] has joined #lisp 02:05:23 nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:58 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:24 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.171.99] has joined #lisp 02:07:28 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:41 wuj [~wuj@207-237-2-224.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:41 -!- tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.56.174.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:11:27 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 02:12:26 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 02:12:37 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0C6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:16:43 -!- ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:23:20 jecxjo [~jecxjo@173-26-253-73.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:13 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:27:19 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.105.37] has joined #lisp 02:28:23 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-410626.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:32 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-221-78.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 02:32:04 asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:37:47 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:54 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Quit: solussd] 02:40:10 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 02:43:17 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:44:20 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:44:39 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 02:45:32 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AA79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:58:48 So what do people tend to use for GUIs? 03:00:32 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.56.171.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:10 great question. I've tried ltk and one of the gtk2 libs; the best so far seems to be the lispbuilder SDL, but not sure its widget selection 03:02:06 Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-72-37.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:29 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:07:18 pnathan: Which gtk do you use? 03:07:34 pnathan: I've been looking around at the cl gtk options and they don't look very... documented. 03:07:57 I couldn't make it work. :( 03:08:07 Not well enough, at least 03:10:00 The problem is that GTK has something called "vte" that's used as a real dependency in a lot of actually-used terminals (e.g. the gtk2 one in xfce and the gtk3 one in gnome), and I'm not sure others have something like that, but GTK itself is... awful in cl 03:10:10 -!- jake__ [~jake@63.249.57.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:10:21 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.229.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:28 interesting 03:10:38 I've heard common-qt isn't a bad lib, but hadn't gotten there yet 03:11:05 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:11:27 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:41 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-184-186.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:13 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-184-186.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:16:34 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:16:45 cmoore [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:09 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:38 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-184-186.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:21:21 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:07 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-121.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:30:21 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-184-186.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:34:56 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:37:09 very strange...today i was trying to use ltk to add a GUI to a project and decided on cl-gtk2 as tk doesnt have some UI objects i needed 03:37:52 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:04 -!- djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:23 jecxjo: I'm looking into cl-gtk2-gtk again 03:38:25 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:42:31 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:11 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:32 hugod [~user@209.133.115.80] has joined #lisp 03:43:33 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:34 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:53 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:42 -!- rme [rme@45ABB5FE.20EC5E68.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:45:42 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.146.151] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:47:42 I'd love to see a sample app for common lisp gtk up on github; one with mouse click handling, some rendering, etc. :-/ 03:48:18 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:48:51 CommonQt works for me. Thats all 03:53:48 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-177.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:39 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.183.88] has joined #lisp 03:57:01 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:57:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.105.37] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 03:57:55 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.183.88] has quit [Client Quit] 04:00:19 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.183.88] has joined #lisp 04:01:32 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.183.88] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03:45 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 04:03:54 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-125.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:51 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:09 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.183.88] has joined #lisp 04:06:33 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-177.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:06:41 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:02 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:53 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 04:08:17 -!- pjb is now known as Guest52659 04:09:01 -!- Guest52659 is now known as pjb 04:16:54 -!- yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:17:11 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:17:22 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:55 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-125.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:17:55 yan_ [~yan@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 04:18:38 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-120-143.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:18 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 04:27:50 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:38 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-159-75.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:42 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:34:02 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-64-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:34:27 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-120-143.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:34:39 everyone thinks lisp is so cool with macros but i can just do the same thing in C, look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAII#Ad-hoc_mechanisms 04:36:00 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:36:24 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-184-186.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:37:02 -!- hugod [~user@209.133.115.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:39:00 Quadrescence: no problem, go on programming in C. 04:39:09 ;) 04:41:56 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0C6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:49:00 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-159-203.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:29 At what cost and with how much/little convenience? 04:50:49 shosti [~user@c-76-24-17-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:53 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:13 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 04:52:01 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-159-75.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:52:48 Sgeo: but he can JUST do the same. 04:53:02 Sgeo, C is faster at no cost 04:53:11 Yeah, and it's faster even. 04:53:35 Quadrescence: pretty tell me. how much is factorial of 40 in C? 04:53:37 Quadrescence: what if any of those macros are misused? 04:53:53 adu: you'd get an error message obviously ;-) 04:54:07 *p_l* not sure if trolling is in progress or just lack of enlightenment 04:54:48 I would prefer hygine to text any day 04:54:48 pjb, factorial is academic and has no real world value 04:55:01 p_l, Well it was quiet so... 04:55:07 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-159-203.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:55:08 Quadrescence: um, you've obviously never heard of exp 04:55:12 Quadrescence: well then, let's compute the deficit of USA. 04:55:12 the only good macro package for C that I have seen included an extra compiler 04:55:25 adu, you get hygiene in CL macros? 04:55:38 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-16.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:55:38 Sgeo: through practice, not theory wanking, yes 04:55:42 Sgeo: no, I never said you did 04:55:54 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:54 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:56:11 pjb, :) 04:56:30 tough crowd 04:56:45 Quadrescence: the exp() function is used everywhere throughout the life sciences, natural sciences, computer sciences, etc... 04:57:11 adu, so is Gamma (sort of) 04:57:34 making factorial Actually Useful 04:58:03 calculating exp() requires factorial, calculating gamma() requires exp() 04:58:06 the power series expansion of exp makes factorial useful, who would have known 04:59:30 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-145-37.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:15 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-43-228.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 05:02:37 superflit [~superflit@65-128-43-228.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:35 -!- Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:05 wvoq [~user@c-68-55-255-90.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:08 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-43-228.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:08:22 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:37 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 05:12:58 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-112-30.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:58 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:16:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-145-37.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:16:46 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-179.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:16:51 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-122-47.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:32 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-179.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:22 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-112-30.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:19:58 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:2d20:d114:df3d:c6b4] has joined #lisp 05:31:30 -!- asdfhjkl [~bob@i5E879AE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:35:06 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-123-159.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:07 hugod [~user@12.104.145.50] has joined #lisp 05:37:29 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-122-47.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:38:48 oauth2 success w/ lisp. time for sleep. 05:56:50 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.183.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:57:50 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:08 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:05:44 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 06:09:41 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.147.51] has joined #lisp 06:16:01 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.63.248] has joined #lisp 06:16:45 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.147.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:24:51 -!- shosti [~user@c-76-24-17-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@90-224-48-215-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:32:49 teggi [~teggi@113.172.36.30] has joined #lisp 06:34:17 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:45 -!- loktigon [~loktigon@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:45:43 superflit [~superflit@65-128-43-228.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:48 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-43-228.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:19 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 06:55:07 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 06:55:17 lisp is the main language for AI research ? 06:56:27 the year is 1980 ? 06:57:37 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 07:00:32 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:07:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:13:08 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 07:14:09 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:708:2d20:d114:df3d:c6b4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:15:04 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has joined #lisp 07:16:28 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.168.82] has joined #lisp 07:17:12 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:24:36 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:26:11 venk [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:27 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:34 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:09 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:34:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:35:55 -!- cmoore [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cmoore] 07:37:35 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:37:50 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 07:41:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:54:05 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.168.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:54:49 garbage collection was first introduced in lisp ? 07:54:56 yes 07:56:08 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02:00 -!- kutsurak [~pex@AMontsouris-757-1-21-223.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:28 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.124.57] has joined #lisp 08:04:19 "If you look hard enough, maybe in the highest mountains, in the deepest jungles, or on the lowest basement levels of MIT, you may catch a glimpse of an odd sort of creature. Some call it the Windigo; others refer to it as a yeti, Sasquatch, or rms. But those who really know think it just might be--that it could only be--a Lisp programmer." 08:07:06 are things that bad ? 08:07:38 no 08:10:14 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 08:15:21 Say, has anyone here done work with heroku & hunchentoot this week? trying to get static files published and not quite understanding the heroku environment 08:19:00 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-64-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:30 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-64-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:20:15 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3fd1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:40 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-64-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:25:48 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:25:51 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:52 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:25:52 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 08:27:14 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:28:04 HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82b98f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:17 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:46 namoamitabuddha [~namoamita@114.94.241.148] has joined #lisp 08:34:24 Is there anyone familiar with Y-combinator? 08:38:42 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has quit [Quit: Bye] 08:39:52 -!- namoamitabuddha [~namoamita@114.94.241.148] has left #lisp 08:41:27 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 08:41:59 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has joined #lisp 08:42:27 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 08:48:18 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-78-41.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:57:08 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:01:40 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82b98f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 09:04:30 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:16 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-64-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:11:34 wonderin [~workflow@178-83-8-30.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:13:29 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384153.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:20:39 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:26:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 09:33:23 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 09:40:21 Darn it, I .. know how to use fixed-point combinators. 09:40:29 Which may or may not have been helfpul. 09:40:30 helpful 09:40:47 (Haskell's fix is a fixed-point combinator, but not specifically the Y combinator) 09:43:40 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 09:49:39 Wombatzus [~user@adsl-68-122-35-104.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:31 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:55:10 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.168.82] has joined #lisp 09:57:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:59:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:00:04 -!- Wombatzus [~user@adsl-68-122-35-104.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:01:30 -!- cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:07:22 vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:08:27 impulse32 [~impulse@65.92.153.91] has joined #lisp 10:09:00 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-64-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:30 osa1 [~sinan@88.251.170.35] has joined #lisp 10:14:54 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@37.76.140.3] has joined #lisp 10:16:29 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@37.76.140.3] has quit [Client Quit] 10:16:32 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 10:19:06 -!- vedm [~vedm@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:21:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-72-37.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:26:44 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:06 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:31:59 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:34:17 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 10:35:53 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 10:37:16 I am new in lisp. How you guys deal with all these braces. I use autopair in emacs. Is there anything better ? :/ 10:38:00 jasox: paredit 10:38:06 it can be hard to get used to, though 10:38:19 also, the "parens" stop being visible fast 10:38:56 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.168.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:39:31 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.168.82] has joined #lisp 10:40:08 don't worry about them :) 10:40:51 I found that with the cheat sheet handy and a few days of practice, paredit quickly because second nature. 10:40:58 YMMV, but I wouldn't live without it now. 10:41:08 ok tnx, I will try it. Is there more basic modes to add in emacs for lisp programming. 10:41:31 jasox: the indentation is the importantest thing. if the indentation looks wrong, the parens are misplaced. 10:41:37 It's way harder to misplace them with paredit. 10:41:54 step 0 is learning good indentation, hopefully by reading lots of good CL code. 10:42:30 jasox: get quicklisp and install SLIME (quicklisp has a helper for that) 10:42:46 I use C-j in emacs. it automatically indent lines 10:42:55 Xach: did the current helper set slime-fancy? 10:43:04 p_l, i already installed slime ;) 10:43:11 jasox: good :) 10:43:30 p_l: yes 10:43:33 hopefully current/quicklisp slime, not from distro package from 2005 ;) 10:44:07 jasox: i have RET do newline-and-indent. i don't remember if i set that or if it's the default. 10:44:30 azrael_ [~azraelgot@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:44:38 Hello all 10:44:48 azrael_: hello 10:45:13 :). Having a strange issue with sbcl (strange to me anyway) 10:45:38 kai_ [~kai@f052100108.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:43 what's up? 10:45:46 Rats, this client won't let me copy 10:45:51 use paste.lisp.org 10:46:03 Im on my iPad. :) 10:46:37 I've created my own package and I export a function called #'array that behaves like #'vector 10:46:45 azrael_: is SBCL running on iPad ? 10:47:13 No, sorry if I created excitement there. :). Just this irc client 10:47:38 azrael_: so it's not useful :-) 10:47:40 So as you've probably guessed, I get an error that there's a package lock on array 10:47:54 I know, im sorry. :) 10:48:02 azrael_: you must (defpackage my-package (:shadow #:array) (:export #:array ...) ...) 10:48:08 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.61] has joined #lisp 10:48:11 Did that 10:48:34 Then other packages must shadowing-import-from to use it without a prefix, or shadow to use it with, or just not use-package the package. 10:48:51 Now the next issue is, cl seems to export array for the class array. My package would be used instead of cl so I need to export that class too 10:49:17 azrael_: no, you can :use cl and your package, you just have to selectively shadow 10:49:40 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-33-164.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:49:44 Seemed simple enough, (setf (find-class 'array) (find-class 'cl:array)) 10:50:03 Which works as expected, but sbcl gives me a strange warning. 10:50:15 That is really not anything you want to do. 10:50:21 That is the wrongest way to solve the problem. 10:50:30 "redefining DEFTYPE to be a class" 10:51:08 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:15 You must arrange to use the right name, my-package:array, in places that matter. If you don't want to type my-package, you can use (:shadowing-import-from #:my-package #:array) so that the token ARRAY is interpreted as MY-PACKAGE:ARRAY and not CL:ARRAY. 10:51:27 What's wrong with it? Cl has a separate namespace for classes, functions and variables. I want the array I export from my package to behave as cl's vector does 10:52:17 Xach: all my further packages only use my package, never cl. I just pass any cl symbols I don't define right on through 10:53:21 azrael_: You can't make a standard user-defined class behave just like a CL array and have it replace CL:ARRAY as a built-in class. 10:53:45 The vector symbol from CL has a function associated with it as well as a class. The array symbol only has a class. I want to create my own array symbol and have my new function as well as the normal CL array 10:53:59 You can have code that wants to make an instance of that class refer to the token ARRAY and have it mean YOUR-PROJECT:ARRAY. 10:54:23 And if the code wants to refer to CL:ARRAY it can use the token "CL:ARRAY". 10:54:45 This is purely about names, not other behavior. 10:54:48 No, no, I must not be being clear. I don't want to replace the array class. I want it to behave as always. I just want to add my array function to the symbol 10:55:01 Right, im only playing with symbols here. 10:55:07 azrael_: You can't add your array function to the symbol CL:ARRAY. 10:55:17 See l1sp.org/cl/11.1.2.1.2 10:55:58 Right. So I want to create my own symbol STD:ARRAY that points to my function but has the class slot be the built in array 10:55:59 azrael_: when you do (setf (find-class ...) ...) that looks like replacement. 10:56:13 azrael_: you can't do that. 10:56:14 Im just trying to alias 10:57:56 Why not? STD:ARRAY is a symbol that can point to a variable, a function and a class simultaneously since CL is a LISP-2 11:00:15 If I make the class cell of my STD:ARRAY symbol point to the same class that CL:ARRAY is pointing to then everything is setup how I want. 11:00:40 And this does seem to work fine. It's just throwing up a warming that I don't understand. 11:02:06 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 11:03:02 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:03:47 I didn't see anything I'm violating in that link you sent. 11:04:45 TDT [~user@50-83-108-248.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:52 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:06:22 Potentially using 'cl:array in a find-class call, but I'm only writing to sbcl, so not worried about portability. 11:06:40 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-041-057.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:02 HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82b98f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:38 Am I already kill filed? :D 11:12:32 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.168.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:12:56 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-123-159.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 11:13:34 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-123-159.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:47 -!- FireFly [~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly] has left #lisp 11:17:12 It just doesn't work that way. 11:19:09 Alright, full disclosure then. :) 11:19:35 I know you all probably get sick of hearing this, but im making my own lisp varient 11:20:09 Spot on, I am sick of it. Good luck, though! 11:20:44 Long term, I plan to write it all the way cl is written in SBCL so I wouldnt need CL at all, but the proof of concept will be written in cl 11:21:55 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:22:02 albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:02 -!- albacker [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:22:02 albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has joined #lisp 11:22:18 So in the final version, my built in array class would simpy share the same symbol as my build in array function. Just as vector works in cl. But for the POC thats not an option, so I need a need a way to make it work in the mean time. 11:23:46 My new language is mostly just CL but consistent. Instead of 3 different conventions for "destructive" there is only one. Instead of a different accessor for every possible collection there is a generic one that works for all, and a package specific for each collection for max speed 11:24:42 Based on generic methods so anyone can add their own and have it behave exactly as a built in 11:26:54 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:16 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-123-159.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:27:17 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:27:36 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-137-73.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:12 So setting aside your hostility for my collosal waste-of-time project, can anyone tell me what "WARNING: redefining DEFTYPE type to be class: STD:ARRAY means, and how I've ran afoul of it? 11:29:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:30:18 it means that you're replacing a type known to *deftype*, with a class, which probably will break a lot 11:30:32 wait a moment, I'll find a paper with a good example of how to actually do what you're doing 11:30:46 Thank you! 11:31:16 If there were a way I'd give you IRC karma. :) 11:31:22 mind you, doing it properly, so it doesn't blow up every 5 minutes in complex and hard to debug ways, which are stopped for now with the warning, is not easy 11:31:46 gh0ul [~grim@188.27.101.96] has joined #lisp 11:31:52 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.36.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:11 Well, I could just call my stupid function 'arr like clojure does but I didnt want to knowing put in things that im going to break in the next 11:32:19 Phase 11:32:29 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:33:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-99.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:34:14 http://doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/papers/ilc2007/sequences-20070301.pdf <--- this, if you want to *extend* the standard (as in, you want the core language arrays to be extended with yours) 11:35:07 if you want to just use your own in your own code, and not worry about passing it to external code, just make a package my-array and put all the definitions there, and use it like my-array:make-array etc. 11:36:47 Well, the way it works in this phase is I have a top level class called std.core that has the core macros, functions and so on. Then I have packages later in that define things like generic accessors to collections, etc. and at the top level I have a macro that takes a series of packages and creates a new package from those doing the required shadowing, etc 11:36:53 -!- TDT [~user@50-83-108-248.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:01 Top level package I meant, not class. Doha 11:37:25 Doah even (spell fixer) 11:38:48 So in this phase I have to do a lot of playing with symbols. Importing something in from CL, giving it a new name and exporting the new symbol, possibly creating an inline function if I need to change argument order or something. That sort of thing 11:38:52 well, I recommend not modifying the CL package, although you can use :shadowing-import-from to define your own "base" package (I do so to patch-away certain incompatibilities by using versions of functions from compat libs instead of directly from CL) 11:39:08 also, manipulating of packages becomes easier with conduits 11:39:47 No, I don't touch cl package. I just make my own package that imports the cl symbols that I report with (potentially) some other name 11:40:05 Re-export. Freaking spell correct 11:40:30 http://paste.lisp.org/+2R2J <--- have an example (working!) from my own code 11:40:48 requires conduits, but those are installable from QL (and in this case, closer-mop) 11:42:25 Oh that looks perfect. I was planning to have something like that. I'll check out conduits. Thanks for the pointer. 11:42:44 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.218] has joined #lisp 11:43:11 A lot of people complain about the CL package system but I find it powerful. It's just missing some important utilities like renaming, etc 11:43:57 azrael_: conduits make it easier 11:44:16 the functionality is there, but you otherwise need to manually do it all 11:44:45 Looks like. Yea, I noticed it was doable, just a lot of work. 11:46:20 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 11:50:27 Joreji [~thomas@86-002.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:57 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@65.92.153.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:43 azrael_: you can rename packages 11:52:18 francogrex [~user@109.130.129.200] has joined #lisp 11:56:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:59:21 in #emacs they're all sleeping 11:59:45 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:59:53 I have a Q about auto-indentation (of strings) in emacs, like here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128396 how can I make all newlines in the string align under each other? 12:01:30 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:10 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:09:40 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 12:11:42 francogrex: it is not that easy 12:12:37 but you agree that esthetically it would be better that the string newlines are aligned? Now I do it manually 12:12:47 francogrex: are long blanks a problem in your strings? 12:13:06 no, it's not about blanks 12:13:24 francogrex: not sure it is bad as is 12:13:56 francogrex: because otherwise you may take it for other lisp forms 12:15:06 francogrex: you may use a small defun that concatenates strings 12:15:46 francogrex: use %~ in the end of the lines, then simply align the rest of the string under it 12:15:50 like in (~ string1 ... stringn) and then everything would be correctly indented 12:16:13 even if there are no newlines, the string since it is one entity goes to the beginning: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128396#1 12:16:19 ok I'll try 12:16:30 sorry ~ at the end of the line 12:16:45 it will remove newline and spaces leaving only 1 space 12:17:39 maxm-: nice stuff ;-) 12:19:54 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:19:58 maxm-: in what form do you use it? REPL itself does not transform it 12:20:33 Shiryu: its only a format directiry, so you use it in (format) control strings 12:20:43 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 12:21:02 maxm-: OK I missed it, thanks 12:21:58 francogrex: I forget to mention that my ~ defun also adds a space between strings give in argument 12:22:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:22:44 ok 12:23:13 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:23:13 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 12:23:13 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:27:04 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:27 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:31:54 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:24 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:33:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-002.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:33:21 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:35:01 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:08 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.129.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37:26 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:40:02 Joreji [~thomas@86-002.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:43:04 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 12:47:48 -!- gh0ul [~grim@188.27.101.96] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:51:09 untrusted [~user@stgt-5f718b1e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:21 stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.147.51] has joined #lisp 12:54:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:57:58 I am curious is there any cool web app lisp project? 12:58:38 no 12:59:02 klaushbo [~user@cpe.atm2-0-1121036.virnxx11.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 12:59:31 jasox: all hidden 12:59:34 My blog is a web app written in lisp. I don't know if its cool, though :) 12:59:53 :D 13:00:33 And I'm having a little fun with combining websockets and parenscript; there will be a blog-post about that at some point. 13:01:49 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-137-73.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:03:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-002.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:05:03 jasox: what about you? 13:05:51 Shiryu, I am new in lisp. 13:06:20 jasox: so you probably are trying to build a web app ;-) 13:06:23 -!- azrael_ [~azraelgot@52-45.3-213.fix.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:08:32 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D5D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:24 I am borred to keep on restarting my REPL while developping - have you any tips to prevent it? 13:13:48 Why do you restart your REPL? That sounds wrong 13:14:47 Neronus: well, because I call names in wrong packages for instance and then I get lock stuff errors 13:15:44 lock stuff errors? That should not happen. Can you post your error to http://paste.lisp.org/ so that we know what "lock stuff errors" are? 13:16:49 Neronus: not there but REPL interns symbols even if they are unbound and then I do not know how to remove interned names 13:17:31 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 13:17:34 what kind of cleaning do you make in your REPL to grow it up properly? 13:19:04 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-041-057.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19:12 This is another place where javascript's unification of string and symbol shines. :) 13:19:35 lol 13:20:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:20:42 Shiryu: OK, the REPL interns symbols, but so what, but why should that be a problem? 13:21:24 If you really want to, you can use "unintern" btw 13:21:57 It's a bit like going back to malloc/free. 13:22:22 huh? 13:23:00 Neronus: thanks 13:23:14 Well, you need to figure out if anything is using that symbol, manually, to decide if unintern is appropriate. 13:23:26 I promise publically I won't restart my REPL this week-end 13:24:03 And if you get it wrong, things will break excitingly as half refer to the uninterned symbol, and the rest to the newly interned symbol. 13:25:04 And since lisp doesn't have multiple namespaces for functions, variables, classe, etc ... 13:25:16 Uninterning one name will break everything using that name. 13:25:25 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.244] has joined #lisp 13:25:25 Zhivago: you mean more excitingly than using lisp itself? 13:25:41 Then you can get exciting debugging messages about # not being an instance of foo. 13:25:43 yes 13:26:04 wow! 13:26:41 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:27:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:20 Zhivago: so you would like me to unintern unintern? 13:27:36 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:27:42 ;-) 13:27:55 Only if you do it while wearing a fish as a hat and dancing an irish jig, and film it and upload to youtube. 13:28:40 OK I promise too 13:28:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:29:02 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:29:41 so "cleaning" REPL is not a point, OK 13:30:17 It's ... somewhat risky and tricky, and of dubious benefit. 13:30:52 Shiryu: Interning symbols in wrong packages *usually* is no problem 13:31:16 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-023-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:20 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 hi guys. is there a nice way in SLIME to go to the definition of an arbitrary symbol as entered into the minibuffer? 13:37:01 Shiryu: your implementation should provide a restart to choose which symbol to use when there is a conflict 13:37:31 zfx: look at C-c C-w C-h 13:37:43 Vivitron: ok 13:38:07 FOr me its M-. 13:38:23 or M-x slime-edit-definition 13:38:28 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:38:32 M-. is for the symbol under point, but I want to enter an arbitrary symbol. 13:38:50 -!- jecxjo [~jecxjo@173-26-253-73.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 13:38:59 move your cursor so there is no symbol under the point 13:39:11 ha. thanks. :) 13:39:46 hmm, that only appears to search the current file. 13:39:46 zfx: try "c-h k" "M-." then "M-x" "whatever-that-function-was" 13:41:48 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:42:21 zfx: slime-edit-definition looks up everything the lisp knows about for me 13:43:15 Neronus: seems to only search the current package for me, even if I explicitly qualify the symbol. 13:43:26 well, not the current package, but the one for the file I am in. 13:43:53 What does C-h k M-. say? 13:44:20 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 13:44:28 ah, there is a second parameter. 13:44:42 hehe 13:45:07 Lookup the definition of the name at point. If there's no name at point, or a prefix argument is given, then the function name is prompted. 13:46:12 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:47:11 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 13:47:24 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Quit: solussd] 13:47:34 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 13:47:40 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Changing host] 13:47:40 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:47:43 Jovlang [~user@cm-84.209.27.113.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 13:47:52 what's the preferred way to add an item to the end of a list? 13:48:21 (append list (list item)) 13:48:29 That's not very efficient, though 13:48:43 If you know where the end of the list is ... 13:49:07 so for beginning, it's (push var elt), but for the end, it's (setf var (append var (list elt)))? 13:49:33 for example 13:50:30 If you don't want to copy the list (that is what append does) then you can either do (setf (last var) (list elt)) or (setf var (nconc var (list elt))) 13:51:29 Jovlang: just use append, and come back if you have performance issues. 13:53:54 fiveop [~fiveop@186.221.140.240] has joined #lisp 13:54:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:55:26 Jovlang, you can maintain pointer to the last item of your list. Then set its CDR value to point to new cons. 13:55:35 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 13:57:39 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:57:47 don't over optimize prematurely, only case where you should pre-optimize append, is in the idiom where you are appending large amount of small sublists to a growing "joined" list, piece by piece, reassigning the "joined" list to a variable.. Even that is fine, as long as you realize its O^2 13:58:19 TDT [~user@50-83-108-248.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:49 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@119.121.147.51] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 13:58:53 also if its an sequence, consider if you really need to have it as a list.. If you appending elements one at a time, consider using vector, and vector-push-extend 13:59:16 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:00:29 you're bombarding the poor guy. let him use append and he will come back if it isn't good enough. 14:01:15 yea sorry.. Did not come out right, I wanted to give "just use append" thing, but got diverted by one special case that bitten me :-) 14:06:44 fuggy [~fuggy@146.247.37.165] has joined #lisp 14:07:52 maxm-, what did you mean by using arrays? (like malloc/realloc in C?) 14:07:59 s/arrays/vectors/ 14:08:47 albacker: (let ((a (make-array 0 :adjustable t :fill-pointer t))) (dotimes (i 20) (vector-push-extend i a)) a) 14:08:49 try it 14:09:20 -!- untrusted [~user@stgt-5f718b1e.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 14:11:12 help me, after installing sbcl writes: 14:11:12 sbcl: / lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14 'not found (required by sbcl) 14:11:16 i'm not a lisper, i think i don't have an interpreter installed.. what's the `default` interpreter in linux distros? 14:11:35 i imagine sbcl must be useful 14:12:02 maxm-, ok, i see what you mean :) 14:12:04 davlaps [~davlaps@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:18 sbcl/clisp are probably the ones available through your distro package system 14:14:32 yes, i got sbc. 14:14:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-179.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:14:49 CCL folks need make an RPM/deb. Yes installing by hand is easy, but don't underestimate user laziness. 14:15:12 albacker: ok, then setup emacs/slime and you are on your way 14:15:23 maxm-, i already use emacs 14:15:28 "use" 14:15:29 this channel need calc/assoc/whatever bot that spits out urls.. 14:15:43 Altho Xach functions in that fashion too when his awake 14:15:59 for you guys someone that doesn't know elisp/lisp isn't a real emacsier (emacsian?) 14:16:05 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:33 albacker: technically you don't need to know elisp to customize emacs, altho many people eventually learn to do it, due to its power 14:17:02 that's true. 14:17:05 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:17:22 albacker: modern emacs actually has quite powerful "customize" facility, that lets you change almost anything. 14:18:14 albacker: so you have emacs but no slime, or you have slime too? coz just plain emacs with lisp in a shell is dark ages comparing to Slime Repl 14:18:23 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:19:29 in fact i use emacs -nw 14:19:36 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:19:37 maybe i'm in dark ages.. 14:19:39 what is slime? 14:19:52 superior lisp interaction mode for emacs 14:19:56 ah 14:20:00 ok, it's just for lisp. 14:20:00 it is pretty handy 14:20:10 i thought i was missing out something while coding c/python etc under emacs :) 14:20:14 its an interactive IDE for developing lisp with slime.. I would say slime is to cl, what eclipse is to java 14:20:14 14:20:47 that's in fact the only reason i use emacs for lisp instead of vim 14:20:53 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 14:20:55 will download it; what's the difference between elisp and lisp. is the first one lisp but with predefined functions that let you interact with the editor? 14:21:05 *maxm-* searched scrollback, and recent fashion seems to install slime with quicklisp, is that true? can't guide a noob in that process since I never done it 14:21:26 albacker: on this channel lisp means common lisp 14:21:50 http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 14:21:51 albacker: elisp it the script language for emacs, which is a dialect of lisp, a familly of languages 14:22:06 is* 14:22:19 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-023-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:22:34 But Emacs Lisp is not only a scripting language. It's also the implementation language of Emacs. 14:22:41 yep 14:23:19 i thought learning elisp would be more useful (editing emacs, writing modes) than just learning lisp. Since i'd be getting my head inside functional programming, recursion and stuff, the language itself doesnt change a lot. 14:23:34 albacker: common lisp is basically a huge and well defined standard, so that you can write programs that run on any Common Lisp implementation. The compatibility is usually very good.. Other variants of lisp are different in various ways too numerous to mention. elisp is geared towards extending emacs. Scheme is minimalist etc 14:24:19 i know some scheme looks like a puppy compared to cl (more hardcore) :) 14:25:05 yeah, but scheme is sexy to learn if you want to discover functionnal languages 14:25:34 what do you think of this http://www.amazon.com/Lisp-Small-Pieces-Christian-Queinnec/dp/0521562473 ? 14:25:35 albacker, a subset of Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp can be used functionally but they are really multi-paradigm languages. Most people don't use them that much functionally. 14:26:43 albacker: CL is swiss army knife, scheme is ninja sword, that cuts melons in half nicely, but when you try to cut a pig in half, it breaks and piece stubs you in the foot 14:27:06 heh, nice one :) 14:27:27 talking languages is like talking about religions in fact 14:29:21 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-228-30.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:09 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:31:43 albacker: reading description its probably too dense an introduction if you not already an experienced programmer. 14:32:08 albacker: best introduction to lisp is IMHO "practical common lisp", which is available on the web for free 14:32:29 yeah, or the land of lis, I heard it was nice 14:32:37 the land of lisp* 14:34:40 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-060-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:22 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:35:27 dtw, what do you mean by mutliparadigm languages? 14:36:01 what is the simplest possible way to parse "multiparadigm languages"? 14:40:01 ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:40:18 albacker: common lisp mixes imperative, functionnal and oriented object programming 14:42:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:45:07 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 14:47:07 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 14:52:28 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.124.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:43 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:53:04 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #lisp 14:53:34 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 14:56:32 help me, after installing sbcl writes: 14:56:32 sbcl: / lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14 'not found (required by sbcl) 15:00:30 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 15:01:27 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:03:08 -!- TDT [~user@50-83-108-248.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:10:50 RomyRomy_ [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:29 fuggy: what OS are you using? 15:12:47 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:13:25 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:13:26 -!- RomyRomy_ is now known as RomyRomy 15:14:40 ubuntu 10.04 15:15:16 -!- hugod [~user@12.104.145.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:16:25 fuggy: if you build sbcl from source, you shouldn't have that error. 15:17:30 fuggy: and even though you'd probably just want to download the binary and install it (i always want that), it's still not overly complex. in fact, for building something from source, it was quite trivial. though you'll need another lisp implementation to build it (say clisp) 15:17:43 Download sbcl from the official site. Run install.sh 15:17:43 After that, new (1.0.55) and old (1.0.29) version will not run. Still writes: 15:17:43 > sbcl: / lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14 'not found (required by sbcl) 15:18:27 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 15:22:10 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:38 Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 15:23:22 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:32 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2C86.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:25:46 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:26:59 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:28:29 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:59 Layla [~Me@pool-108-4-51-214.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:08 -!- Layla [~Me@pool-108-4-51-214.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:31:05 evenin' 15:35:11 rme [~rme@50.43.189.235] has joined #lisp 15:35:39 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 fuggy: are you sure the new sbcl didn't install itself in the same location as the old sbcl? 15:38:21 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:39:24 madnificent: I'm not sure. The old version is run with the same error that is new version. 15:40:20 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:42 benny [~benny@i577A3D9A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:57 TDT [~user@50-83-108-248.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:18 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 15:44:07 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82b98f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:44:46 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052100108.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:51 fuggy: you installed the old version with apt-get and it didn't work?? 15:46:20 loktigon [~loktigon@c-98-202-2-109.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:48 dlowe: Yes. After trying to install the new version. 15:50:45 ah, the new version probably overwrote the old version. 15:51:13 try reinstalling the old version 15:51:43 you'll want to build from source rather than using the binaries 15:51:47 if you want the latest version 15:53:59 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:32 Did 'sudo apt-get remove sbcl' 15:54:32 After 'sudo apt-get install sbcl' which (old 1.0.29) 15:54:32 But still writes: 15:54:32 > sbcl: / lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14 'not found (required by sbcl) 15:54:32 Synaptic message established version 1:1.0.29.11-1ubuntu1 15:56:10 and what does "which sbcl" print? 15:58:14 the old version too, displays an error 15:59:21 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:00:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:02:24 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 16:02:35 hugod [~user@209.133.115.80] has joined #lisp 16:06:17 It is necessary the fullest to remove sbcl (new version). How do I do? 16:07:16 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 16:07:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:17 jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has joined #lisp 16:08:33 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 16:12:51 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:53 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 16:15:04 elkng [~elkng@93.88.221.1] has joined #lisp 16:15:05 -!- elkng [~elkng@93.88.221.1] has quit [Changing host] 16:15:05 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 16:17:23 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-47.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:18:40 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 16:19:49 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:21:25 jewel [~jewel@c-76-102-3-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:29 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-060-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:27:30 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:32 paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-159.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:58 fuggy: dpkg-reconfigure sbcl might be it 16:28:54 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:29:43 Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-72-37.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:46 fuggy: man apt-get would also have told you that you'd want to use apt-get purge sbcl to remove it if you'd also wanted to remove configurations 16:32:25 -!- TDT [~user@50-83-108-248.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:38 madnificent: 'apt-get purge sbcl' and 'dpkg-reconfigure sbcl' used did not help. 16:36:28 rogersm [~rogersm@187.Red-212-170-13.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:30 fuggy: so you did: apt-get purge sbcl; apt-get install sbcl; sbcl; and it didn't launch an sbcl image? 16:36:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:36:43 what does whereis sbcl; say? 16:37:32 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-237-2-224.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:37:42 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384153.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:20 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-125-75.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-228-30.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:41:02 madnificent: Yes. I did all this commands, but will not start. 16:41:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-69-143-121-232.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:41:14 fuggy: what does the whereis sbcl command say? 16:41:53 > sbcl: /usr/bin/sbcl /etc/sbcl.rc /usr/lib/sbcl /usr/lib64/sbcl /usr/local/bin/sbcl /usr/local/bin/sbcl.old /usr/share/man/man1/sbcl.1.gz 16:42:24 fuggy: try /usr/bin/sbcl and/or /usr/local/bin/sbcl.olg 16:42:31 s/olg/org/ 16:42:35 grrr 16:42:40 s/org/old/ 16:43:14 HI guys! Could someone explain me please why bar-not-working is not working? 16:43:18 paste: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128399 16:43:28 I thought that #delete works like (setf ... (remove ...))... 16:44:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:44:20 mrSpec: no, DELETE is like REMOVE, except it happens to be able to reuse structure. 16:44:28 From what I've read, it's a bad idea to rely on side effects of a function 16:44:45 So even with something that modifies its argument, you should still use the result and not what happened to the argument. 16:44:50 mrSpec: basically, you shouldn't use DELETE unless you're optimizing, and/or you know what you're doing. Even if you do use DELETE, you have to capture the result value. 16:45:11 it's a bad idea to rely on the side effects of a function if it's not defined to have guaranteed side effects, at least 16:45:12 mrSpec: there is a library (you'll have to search, i forget it) which offers things like removef, which is a setf and a remove combined. 16:45:13 $ / usr/bin/sbcl to run, and $ sbcl does not start. 16:45:28 sykopomp: I see, thanks! 16:45:30 madnificent: deletef/removef/etcf are in alexandria, I'm pretty sure. 16:45:56 sykopomp: could be, then it's not in the separate setf thingy library.... actually that makes sense. 16:45:59 *madnificent* should clear his head up 16:46:11 fuggy: does /usr/local/bin/sbcl.old work, maybe? 16:46:29 are there any other functions like delete I should be aware of? 16:46:33 madnificent: you may be thinking of http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/m_defi_2.htm 16:46:38 mrSpec: nconc 16:47:12 madnificent: /usr/local/bin/sbcl.old not work. 16:47:14 sykopomp: no, i think it's a library hexstream wrote. i'm thinking of that 16:47:34 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:47:34 anyone have a clue on how to fix fuggy's problem? 16:47:54 fuggy: does the sbcl installer come with a remove script? 16:48:55 mrSpec: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/c_conses.htm If you look through this list, the variants with 'n' in front of them tend to reuse structure. 16:49:28 ditto for http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/c_sequen.htm 16:49:33 madnificent: no remove script 16:49:34 and I always should setf theirs result anyway? 16:49:53 mrSpec: or otherwise use the result in some way, yes. 16:49:57 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 16:50:32 ok 16:50:38 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-149-98.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:45 mrSpec: the spec doesn't force implementations to reuse structure. furthermore, as your variables link to the first cons in the list, what would happen if you'd remove that first element? 16:50:55 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:58 (yes, you can work around it, but it gives a clue on where it may well fail) 16:51:05 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:46 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-125-75.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:53:37 madnificent: interesting question! I've tried this and I see... :) 16:54:00 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.41] has joined #lisp 16:54:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.41] has quit [Changing host] 16:54:00 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:55:29 fuggy: what folder does SBCL_HOME point to? 16:55:45 (if it is set) 16:58:10 - 16:59:37 metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 16:59:45 -!- rogersm [~rogersm@187.Red-212-170-13.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: rogersm] 17:00:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:00:59 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has joined #lisp 17:01:24 pjb communicates with is in a very very cryptic form 17:01:39 madnificent: Where to point? Can be copied from /usr/bin in the right? Or make a link from the sbcl => /usr/bin/sbcl ? 17:02:15 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:02:25 wait, what does SBCL_HOME contain? use echo "$SBCL_HOME"; 17:04:00 -!- Sebboh [~hobbes@unaffiliated/sebboh] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:00 Use (sb-ext:getenv "SBCL_HOME") ;-) 17:05:47 pjb: are you joking, or don't you know the issue? it /is/ funny 17:06:12 Yes, there's a ";-)" 17:06:42 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-112-241.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:57 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-149-98.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:19 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 17:11:49 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:12:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:12:07 -!- metaphysician [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:12:55 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081BB36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:32 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 17:16:25 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 17:17:18 -!- hugod [~user@209.133.115.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:26 hugod [~user@209.133.115.80] has joined #lisp 17:22:45 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 17:23:25 skalawag [~twid@li206-225.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:44 -!- skalawag [~twid@li206-225.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 17:24:08 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Quit: solussd] 17:24:23 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 17:25:30 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:15 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@186.221.140.240] has quit [Quit: humhum] 17:26:24 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-116-207.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:27 -!- davlaps [~davlaps@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 17:29:02 HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82b98f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:12 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129106037.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 17:29:23 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-112-241.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:27 -!- solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:31:22 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:31 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:47 ynniv [~ynniv@c-76-23-252-81.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:18 does anyone have experience with a common lisp on ARMv6 with soft floating point? 17:39:00 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:12 I tried compiling ecl on fun_plug, but I'm running into a lot of problems 17:40:19 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-18ba4405.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:15 alek_b_ [~alek_b@99-10-120-63.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:22 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 17:42:53 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:43:53 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:57 TDT [~user@102.207.43.66.sta.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:25 -!- jasox [~jasox@178.239.26.136] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:49:38 realitygrill [~realitygr@wsip-174-70-27-140.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:05 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@wsip-174-70-27-140.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:51 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:57 -!- jewel [~jewel@c-76-102-3-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53:59 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.63.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:55:10 -!- TDT [~user@102.207.43.66.sta.southslope.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:51 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:18 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82b98f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:59:18 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:17 -!- wvoq [~user@c-68-55-255-90.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:05:56 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:15 kwmiebach [kwmiebach@vps-6813.united-hoster.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:09:35 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:41 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:09 ynniv: how about clisp? 18:17:15 realitygrill [~realitygr@wsip-174-70-27-140.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:29 -!- hugod [~user@209.133.115.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:42 TDT [~user@102.207.43.66.sta.southslope.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:57 gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:26 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:32 -!- project2501a [~lpt@109.171.130.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:11 I am the least familiar with clisp 18:24:21 is there an existing ARMv6 port? 18:25:54 I've used gambit on the iPhone a little, but I'd like to use common lisp 18:27:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:23 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:01 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:01 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:29:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:33:21 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:48 have been away for a long while from learning lisp--just tried to fire up slime and I get "cannot open load file: browse-url". any ideas? 18:34:51 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:35:06 ezakimak: sounds like your emacs is incompletely or incorrectly installed. 18:35:18 browse-url is a standard part of emacs these days 18:35:27 phedz [~phedz@h163.95.91.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:38 i've no idea where to begin to debug this 18:35:46 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has joined #lisp 18:36:12 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:27 ezakimak: What does "M-x version" say? 18:36:29 i did update emacs since I worked on lisp last 18:36:46 -!- phedz [~phedz@h163.95.91.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:36:50 23.3.5 18:36:52 oh. wait. 18:37:11 i've updated on disk since restarting--my running emacs doesn't match whats current on disk! lol. 18:37:28 uh oh. it won't even let me quit 18:37:52 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:38:31 that ain't good! 18:38:34 there we go. 18:38:36 endless emacs! 18:38:41 had to kill -9 it 18:38:50 the new version is working now. 18:39:19 note to self: quit emacs before updating it... :) 18:39:43 in fact, it looks like i updated it several times since i started it. i always leave it open--kinda live in it. 18:42:38 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:14 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-173-60-243-134.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:46:29 okay, i'm going through _programming_common_lisp_ but when I execute a function (?) that's wrong, the program won't execute my next commands (?) -any hints - using lispbox 18:47:08 BeWhy, is it still in the debugger? 18:47:29 I'd quit the debugger - kill thread 18:48:04 i'm not familiar w/lispbox, but i'm guessing that kill thread may kill your lisp image entirely and is not what you want 18:48:13 makes sense 18:48:47 BeWhy: he is wrong. Also, lispbox is unmaintained. 18:49:09 try http://lispcabinet.sourceforge.net/ 18:51:56 Can't we `./quicklisp quickload sbcl` yet? ;) 18:52:08 Ralith: thanks, linux version? 18:52:19 ^^ /suggestion? 18:52:31 if you're on linux, you shouldn't use a prepackaged thing; just install emacs, SBCL, and quicklisp yourself. 18:52:59 that way you benefit from being up to date. 18:53:45 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 18:55:15 sellout: that's the coolest thing about quicklisp, suddenly you want much more automization than before. i still remember the pre-quicklisp world vividly. 18:55:54 (automation) 18:55:59 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 18:56:02 ty 18:56:22 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:56:32 Ralith: so that kinda solves that, but that doesn't solve the fact that i can't work the darned thing - do you have any idea why it wouldn't execute commands again? 18:56:33 madnificent, downloading dependencies manually 18:56:41 after figuring out what they were 18:57:02 BeWhy: I don't understand what you're saying in enough detail to comment. 18:57:07 Quadrescence: that too, but mostly using clbuild, managing local-projects and debugging when things went haywire 18:57:17 :) 18:57:21 -!- alek_b_ is now known as alek_b 18:57:32 BeWhy: when you start, can you evaluate (+ 1 2) and does that work/ 18:57:53 -!- BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:03 I do hope quicklisp gets SBCL and stuff into it 18:58:11 ./quicklisp set-up-everything-for-me 18:58:16 HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82b98f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:24 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Quit: home] 18:59:43 BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:49 maybe such support shouldn't be in quicklisp itself 19:00:25 madnificent, it is pragmatic software design to become bloated at some point in a project's lifetime 19:00:35 so someone else can invent a "lightweight, simple" version 19:00:55 and it that sense it could make more sense to make an installer which handles installing your favorite lisp environment, including quicklisp. 19:01:52 cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:08 okay, i'm no programmer, so how does one start lisp from emacs? (since there's no more lispbox) 19:02:19 BeWhy: if you're using slime: 19:02:22 M-x slime 19:02:48 if you're not accustomed to emacs, -x slime 19:03:19 madnificent: thanks, you had me at M-x slime :) 19:03:44 if you don't know if you have slime: download quicklisp and install quicklisp-slime-helper, it's awesome! 19:03:52 in fact, do that anyway 19:03:59 your current slime install is probably leftover from lispbox 19:04:03 and therefore very old 19:04:37 anyone here use gentoo? I'm trying to figure out how to make sure it uses the slime version quicklisp installs and not the one portage installs (which is necessary for other deps) 19:05:32 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 19:05:45 Ralith: lispbox didn't install, it ran from a .sh file and directories i downloaded 19:05:56 then you shouldn't have slime at all 19:06:09 unless you installed it yourself 19:06:25 Ralith: I probably installed it myself 19:06:31 when? 19:06:51 Ralith, have you written any public, open source software 19:07:01 probably same day i got lispbox - I was reading around and got a bunch of stuff :( 19:07:03 Quadrescence: what? 19:07:15 Ralith, which part was confusing? 19:07:23 Quadrescence: the part where you asked me that question. 19:07:40 BeWhy: nothing wrong with that; it's just a good idea to be sure it's up to date. 19:07:46 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:48 if you install via quicklisp, that's easy to do. 19:08:31 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:08:59 Ralith, I think it's a simple question... (if (yes-or-no-p "Have you written any open source software?") (format t "Do you have a link?") 'ok-face) 19:09:15 Quadrescence: It is a simple question. Why are you asking me it? 19:09:19 ok, so now quicklisp has 2 version of slime installed--and it looks like it's choosing the older of the two 19:09:36 Ralith, Simple in the lexical environment that is your brain 19:09:44 more like troll-face. 19:10:59 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:13:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:14:53 Quadrescence: are you planning on answering my question? 19:15:05 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10F1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:39 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:21 Ralith, I am just curious, because I see you talk here somewhat often. 19:25:28 ah. 19:25:29 *maxm-* is running through his slime/paredit/emacs todo list 19:25:58 I put most of my work on github, but I wouldn't call much of it release-quality. 19:26:21 most of my worthwhile contributions have been in the form of patches to other people's projects. 19:26:38 anyone got hack to make REPL always appear on the bottom window? 19:26:57 I experiment with a wide range of things and habitually upstream fixes and changes, so that happens fairly often. 19:27:13 *sellout* finds Ralith quite helpful :) 19:27:17 ^^ 19:27:28 Ralith: takes tons of time to get to release quality.. I probably spent 2 month cleaning my lib up, from the state it was perfectly usable to me, to the state I think its usable to others 19:27:54 solussd [~solussd@108.167.2.53] has joined #lisp 19:28:06 *maxm-* is more of an ideas man 19:28:11 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:30 hah 19:29:11 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 19:29:22 the problem I have is, generally by the time I understand a problem well enough to write a good lib for it, either I've identified a sufficiently good existing one, or have moved on to another project 19:30:11 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:30:33 right now most of my energy is focused on researching and experimenting with type systems 19:30:43 *maxm-* has emacs lib, which is to paredit, what paredit is to typewriters 19:30:55 there's also the possibility to get bored with the project/problem solution. 19:31:00 but its horribly spagettied, and default bindings are all vi like 19:31:27 naryl [~weechat@31.186.100.218] has joined #lisp 19:31:31 but it does amazing stuff, like you can delete any region, and it will keep parentethis balanced, and adjust stuff semantically 19:32:12 Ralith: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2828  I figure if the guy who wrote the biggest books on type systems gave up on them, that's good enough for me ;) 19:32:50 sellout, hah 19:33:44 sellout: contracts are pretty complicated too (: 19:34:37 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:35:11 -!- e__krappi [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35:18 e__krappi [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 19:35:48 sellout: bit of a misrepresentation of his position, I think :P 19:37:17 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:37:22 *maxm-* is greatful to people who by playing with weird stuff sometimes come up with novel things, but can't imagine himself developing something justfor the sake of inventing a new language or something 19:37:47 joy to me is working on a ultimately practical project that would do something cool either for myself or other ppl 19:38:07 maxm- doesn't need to broadcast every thought he has 19:38:30 I think it was relevant to the conversation. 19:39:28 maxm-: what is more useful and cool than an improved language? 19:40:51 Ralith: it is very useful, but I'm amazed (in a good way) by people who work on languages for the sake of languages. That is maybe they have a "eventually I'll be using this to write my beatiful web app server" thing, but seems to rarely happen 19:41:28 successful projects rarely happen, period. 19:41:33 the base rate is about the same. 19:44:49 sellout: it's also worth noting that he argues for a successor to static typing, not a return to dynamic typing. 19:45:32 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:56 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 19:46:10 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:48:12 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:49:52 Ralith: Yeah, I was just kidding. Both TAPL and ATAPL still have a place on my shelf. 19:50:13 I knowbut it's an interesting presentation, doubly so given its authors. 19:51:30 Indeed. 19:52:58 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:52:59 pnq [~nick@AC815FE1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:06 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:53:24 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-33-22.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:21 one thing about such things, is that people always try to come up with "universal field theory" type thing. Ie "types considered harmful".. Universally? 19:57:21 19:57:54 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-78-41.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:58:06 maxm-: if you read the presentation, you'll see that that wasn't his point at all. 19:58:40 1. Writing a rigorous software like a compiler or kernel 2. Doing exploratory / research / ad-hoc programming 3. Writing data importer you going to use one time. 4. Quick work on a project you hate, but client pays huge money for 19:58:51 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 19:59:07 all completely different task, requiring different strategies, and different tools. How can something such as "types considered harmful" be true for all of the cases? 19:59:33 it's just a stupid catchphrased it's not true in any way 20:00:50 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:00:59 -!- TDT [~user@102.207.43.66.sta.southslope.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:05 -!- BeWhy [~chatzilla@c-76-124-138-194.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:35 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-78-41.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:04 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:55 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:26 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:09:50 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vrbenbqjhbfenhjl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:11:37 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177889799.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:11 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-116-207.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:13:25 pdponze [~pierre@37.0.41.146] has joined #lisp 20:13:47 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:13:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:57 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:07 -!- fuggy [~fuggy@146.247.37.165] has left #lisp 20:24:34 tcr [~tcr@37.131.64.63] has joined #lisp 20:25:14 Hi there! 20:26:08 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-194-223.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:36 Xach: herep 20:27:01 anyone's on android for lisp ? 20:27:05 common-lisp.... 20:27:12 pnq1 [~nick@AC816F60.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:33 -!- pnq [~nick@AC815FE1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:28:27 Or anyone really: know any good libraries of statistical routines, in particular PDFs, PMFs, and CDFs? 20:29:28 Xof uses R which he describes as an almost Lisp 20:29:33 homie: In what way? Clozure CL runs on some Android devices. I'm not sure how well, though. 20:29:47 tcr: Yeah, I may need to go down that route. 20:29:49 tcr/gigamonkey: and his swankr is pretty fun :) 20:29:58 But R is, as far as I can tell, kinda sucks as a language. 20:30:13 Ah, swanky. I thought I had a vague recollection of someone having done that. 20:30:27 Er, swankr. (Auto-spell check strikes again.) 20:30:38 gigamonkey: I thought you were making a pun :) 20:31:11 gigamonkey: there is cl-mathstat 20:32:41 I would also be interested in anything that talks about how to implement such functions. 20:32:57 -!- wonderin [~workflow@178-83-8-30.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:33:06 via gf's ? 20:33:12 generating functions ? 20:33:54 -!- pdponze [~pierre@37.0.41.146] has left #lisp 20:34:27 homie: generic functions 20:34:31 -!- conntrack [~tor@pdpc/supporter/professional/conntrack] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:37 homie, I have no idea. 20:34:45 erm, i meant the math part.... 20:34:45 p_l: I think he was clarifying his use of gf. 20:35:53 ah 20:36:04 homie: I assume mean this kind of thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generating_function 20:36:13 erm, yes 20:37:42 thom_logn [~thom@pool-173-60-243-134.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:55 some kind of oop and dispatch .....would be possible i think.... 20:38:45 gigamonkey: finally found it, original link by pkhuong see http://cl-www.msi.co.jp/solutions/knowledge/lisp-world/products/CLML-en.html but its commercial 20:39:22 But: Distributions are CLOS objects, and they are created by the constructor of the same name. The objects support the methods CDF (cumulative distribution function), DENSITY (MASS for discrete distributions), QUANTILE, RAND (gives a random number according to the given distribution), RAND-N (convenience function that gives n random numbers), MEAN and VARIANCE (giving the distribution's mean and variance, respectively). These take the 20:39:22 distribution as their first parameter. 20:43:03 maxm-: sounds like about what I want. 20:44:32 Hmmm. Their free version for SBCL is for 1.0.28. 20:44:57 francogrex [~user@109.130.129.200] has joined #lisp 20:45:34 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:46:03 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 20:46:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@37.131.64.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:47:02 *maxm-* tries out other's machine learning stuff for purpose of learning / research, but in the end I tend to write my own stuff 20:47:18 Do you do ML release, maxm- ? 20:47:19 other then libsvm, since moth is completely beyond me 20:48:16 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 20:48:27 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.129.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:43 pnathan: no, no way I'll show my math related code to the world, phd's will laugh me off the internet :-) 20:49:55 but in the end lots of academic research into machine learning, (ie just take random paper and try to implement stuff in there), is basically excessive in curve fitting, still using same old sunspots, and cancer detection datasets from 30 years ago 20:50:16 _0bitcount [~0bitcount@82.158.226.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:07 -!- Jovlang [~user@cm-84.209.27.113.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:36 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-199-143.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:55:31 Okay, this duplicate compilation (or at least duplicate Fontification) in SLIME is getting annoying. 20:57:53 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:58:53 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 20:58:56 shouldn't (loop for x from 0 below 10 sum (some-function x)) be equal to (apply #'+ (loop for x from 0 below 10 collect (some-function x))) 20:59:59 madnificent: probably max-argument limit in 2nd case, use reduce instead 21:00:27 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@wsip-174-70-27-140.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:00:57 maxm-: the odd thing is that the second case gave me what i wanted, not the first 21:01:16 but yeah, normally i'd agree (it's 12 numbers here) 21:01:49 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:01:56 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:03:46 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@192.188.108.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:01 your function is non-constant then (ie returned diff value for same x).. 21:04:07 no other explanation really 21:04:13 maxm-: never mind, they're both borked, an odd case of me redefining something happened (twice!) 21:04:20 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04:58 i know, i thought it couldn't be as i tried in two different cases, but both were apparently borked. gotta go bug hunting. 21:05:26 madnificent: make sure you did not do (defvar x) before 21:05:35 coz it will make it special, and may not give warning 21:05:51 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 21:06:02 *maxm-* quickly learned there is a reason for *global* convention 21:06:14 maxm-: no, it's got nothing to do with all that at the moment, the example wasn't the exact code (wrt variables etc) 21:06:37 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@p5081BB36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:58 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:07:15 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 21:07:40 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:41 Calling SETF on a raw function parameter doesn't break a function's status as 'functional', does it? 21:09:03 In other words, you're only really changing the function's local binding when you do that, right? 21:09:26 maxm-: just found it, i'm an idiot. it was actually a variable naming issue, but literally me using the wrong variable name (another argument that was given) 21:09:42 robot-beethoven: you want to use flet or labels 21:09:54 -!- _0bitcount [~0bitcount@82.158.226.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:10:00 or let, if you're treating the function as a variable 21:10:40 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:11:55 what I'm trying to do is normalize a parameter... it's usually a string parameter, but in the case when it's a symbol, I want to downcase it: (defun foo (x) (when (symbolp x) (setf x (format nil "~(~A~)" x))) ...) 21:13:22 you can just use (string-downcase (symbol-name x)), no? 21:14:19 robot-beethoven: if you setf that variable, then the variable in your local scope will get the updated variable. and if that doesn't sound like it makes sense, then the answer is "it does what you expect". 21:14:19 Bike: that is indeed better -- more clear of the intention 21:16:12 i think i like a print better, you could accept numbers etc with the exact same code. 21:16:16 -!- Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@p5081BB36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:16:33 madnificent: that sounds like what I want: nothing outside the function is affected by the setf (except the functions return better 21:16:51 *(except the functions return value) 21:18:40 madnificent: print does seem even better now, I just need the separate case string parameters then (because I don't want to lowercase them) 21:20:41 robot-beethoven: i don't see how the function's return value is directly affected, but i assume you didn't mean it like that. 21:20:46 You don't need to setf there anyway. (defun foo (x) (let ((x (if (stringp x) x (format nil "~(~a~)" x)))) ...)) or the like 21:21:04 Bike: sometimes i prefer the setf over the let binding too. 21:21:18 yeah, just saying it's an option. 21:23:00 madnificent: I mean the return value will eventually be affected through the function body's use of the new binding 21:23:05 yes 21:26:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:16 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:27:37 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177889799.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:28:02 I'm having trouble with a drakma request 21:28:52 the URL requested should return a 302 found and then redirect 21:29:28 this is the url: http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/graphicMaterials/label/Action%20%26%20adventure%20dramas 21:30:02 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 21:30:27 when i use curl -i curl -I or manually enter the url into a browser i get what i want 21:31:57 with (drakma:http-request ) i don't 21:32:17 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82b98f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:17 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-223.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:21 tcpdump it and see the diff 21:32:35 could be dispatching on user-agent header 21:33:02 I tried changing to :user-agent :firefox 21:33:09 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-223.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:59 what is weird is that drakma:http-request for this url does work. http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/graphicMaterials/label/Abandoned%20buildings 21:34:56 mon_key: then just "sudo tcpdump -A -s8182 host id.loc.gov", run drakma request, then see whats wrong. Redirect tcpdump to a file, but you may have to run request several times, as tpcdump does not fflush() when writing to a file 21:35:10 maxm-: ok 21:35:18 why are list variables, given as function arguments and being modified by these functions, returning as given, without these modifications? 21:35:40 mon_key: actually -l flag makes stdout unbuffered 21:35:44 Shiryu: because values are passed and returned, not variables. 21:35:49 Shiryu: how did you make the modifications? 21:36:01 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:36:04 *maxm-* had done "repeat several times" for years, rather then do 5 second google search, sad 21:36:20 You may change what value a given variable refers to, but that's not the same as mutating a value. 21:36:25 pkhuong: if you keep the first cons, the changes should ripple through 21:36:55 urandom__ [~user@p548A5ED0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-99.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:36 madnificent: thanks, so what would be the usual way to modifying a list? 21:38:43 madnificent: with push for instance 21:39:00 pkhuong: thanks 21:39:09 Shiryu: what are you trying to do, because it sounds to me like you're not doing it in a very lispy way :) 21:39:32 Shiryu: as in: what problem are you trying to solve 21:41:03 madnificent: I have a _ defun (as in gettext) that adds msg objects to a msg list or returning one if it already exists and I expected my _ defun to have a msg list argument 21:42:21 -!- daniel [~daniel@p508291A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:36 daniel [~daniel@p5082A368.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:06 s/returning/returns 21:43:53 if you need a global state, you can use a special variable. if you need objects which can maintain state, you should probably use CLOS. i'm still not entirely sure what you expect to come in and what you expect the side-effects and return values are. 21:43:59 my msg list is a variable 21:44:28 robot-beethoven: Bike: you can just (string-downcase symbol) ! 21:44:31 i rarely have to modify a state when using lists, if i do it's in a special variable somewhere. 21:44:38 kmcorbett1 [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:51 pjb: Huh. Thanks. 21:45:17 madnificent: so you don't pass it as an argument, don't you? 21:45:28 s/don't/do ;-) 21:45:54 Shiryu: some functions copy the list before modifying it 21:46:43 prxq: like reverse and so on? 21:46:52 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:47:09 Shiryu: for example, if you REMOVE items from a list passed as an argument, the original list does not change 21:47:10 prxq: push does not 21:47:13 Shiryu: yes 21:47:23 Shiryu: if it's a special variable, i don't have to. otherwise i pass it and return the updated list. the function which accepts that must store it where (and if) appropriate 21:47:25 Shiryu: right. 21:48:10 clhs remove 21:48:14 madnificent: ok it is one way or another, not a mix of ;-) 21:48:29 nah. specbot sleepin 21:49:09 prxq: you have a specbot? wow 21:49:39 Shiryu: yah, it got a bit rusty, though 21:50:39 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:50:48 madnificent: but my _ has to return a string, ether the given string or the translated one, so... I should use special variable and overwrite it if its name is not the one I want - what do you think? 21:50:48 Shiryu: it is a good practice not to modify the state in many places. it makes your code much easier to understand 21:51:08 Shiryu: (values "foo" '("foo" "bar")) 21:51:13 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has left #lisp 21:51:56 prxq: ;-) 21:52:08 madnificent: to return more than one result? 21:52:22 [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has joined #lisp 21:53:17 ok 21:53:41 thanks guys 21:53:47 Shiryu: could you paste the minimal section of what you have now at paste.lisp.org? 21:54:57 <[6502]> Hello. May be I asked again but I don't remember... is it legal to share identical quoted expressions? 21:56:00 I think that falls under fair use 21:56:06 Share? 21:56:18 <[6502]> Vivitron: hehehe... good one :-) 21:56:29 madnificent: is there a drakma way to fill paste.lisp.org? ;-) 21:56:47 <[6502]> austinh: yeah... like having (eq '(foo) '(foo)) being true 21:56:47 [6502]: Do you mean, will the compiler coalesce constants? COMPILE-FILE is permitted to (clhs 3.2.4) 21:56:56 Shiryu: there's an xml-rpc interface. That's what lisppaste.el uses. 21:57:27 If *not* file-compiled, that expression is guaranteed to return false, because the reader generates fresh lists and there's no license to coalesce elsewhere. 21:57:47 <[6502]> kpreid: actually coalescing was the way I first wrote it... but then I thought it was a bad word :-D 21:59:06 <[6502]> kpreid: yes... of course with quoted I meant after compiling, an uncompiled quote form is just a regular form 21:59:22 <[6502]> kpreid: it's not "code" yet 21:59:26 madnificent: paste #128411 21:59:41 [6502]: specifically, even COMPILE will not coalesce; only COMPILE-FILE may. 21:59:49 <[6502]> hmmm 21:59:51 Shiryu: my lame attempt (well works for me) http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/newpaste.el 22:00:00 n.b. literal values that are COMPILEd but not COMPILE-FILEd are not coalesced, but may be assumed read-only. 22:00:01 Shiryu: should be able to convert to drakma 22:00:16 however, the rule against *modifying literals* applies to everything you put in QUOTE, whether or not it's file compiled. 22:00:20 maxm-: thanks 22:00:25 (though no CL implementation I've met actually cares) 22:00:38 kpreid: constant folding might care. 22:01:33 good point. I was thinking thinking of cases more like '#.(make-instance 'my-class) where there's nothing foldable 22:02:02 <[6502]> pkhuong: so (funcall (lambda () (eq '(foo) '(foo))) is guaranteed to be false in an interctive environment? 22:02:33 that's what kpreid wrote not 5 minutes ago. 22:03:09 <[6502]> pkhuong: you are right.. i read "compiled" instead of "file-compiled" 22:03:14 Shiryu: thanks. i have no clue why one would want to use such a method. the _ naming doesn't exactly help me now why how and where you'd want to use it either. it seems to me that a special variable would be clearer/more appropriate. 22:03:40 <[6502]> tricky 22:03:43 so as far as i can tell drakma is converting the following portion of the encoded url from "%20%26%20" to "%20&%20" 22:04:31 -!- treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:04:53 madnificent: (_ "welcome") would be "bienvenue" in french and so on 22:05:24 madnificent: but you are probably right, a special would also make it 22:05:39 -!- dotemacs [u801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-elsbxskhlpiokfyf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 22:06:00 mon_key: submit bug request, or actualy read docs first to verify if its not intended.. Maybe drakma has its own interface or parameter not to touch query string? 22:06:07 Shiryu: you want to have one of those i18n translation library things? 22:06:08 madnificent: what do you call "state"? 22:06:08 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-217-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:06:23 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@h164n1-m-sp-d4.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:30 <[6502]> "... eval and compile do not copy or coalesce constants" I wonder why they felt the need to provide this guarantee 22:06:32 madnificent: yes I do but my own way ;-) 22:07:10 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 22:07:20 sometimes only way to clue someone in is to let them fail doing it wrong way 22:07:26 Shiryu: are you sure you don't want to use a readily available library? (i'd probably tackle it slightly differently, but wouldn't mind boxing something together in a few minutes. similar to your syntax, that'd obviously be) 22:07:35 *maxm-* had been taught many a lesson that way 22:07:36 maxm-: FWIW I read docs before coming here to see if anyone else here (more familar with drakma) might have an insight. 22:08:16 mon_key: i'm the maintainer. you say drakma mangles your url before sending it? 22:08:27 mon_key: then I would say its a bug, go to its github page and open issue 22:08:35 Shiryu: with state, i mean: you don't want to have variables that are changed in various locations. always try to keep the scope of what you need to understand small. for instance: a function which takes some input, transforms it into something new (without destroying its input) and returns the transformed value, is relatively easy to understand. 22:08:42 mon_key: you can also talk to me first. 22:09:07 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-199-143.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:09:11 H4ns: yes it seems to be silently converting %26 -> % 22:09:18 er %26 -> & 22:09:41 mon_key: did you try the :preserve-uri parameter? it has recently been added, i think for this very purpose. 22:09:48 H4ns: you came alive millisecond before I hit RET, did not meant to instruct him to ignore you 22:09:53 mon_key: i'm not sure if it is in the documentation. 22:09:55 H4ns: No! I will 22:10:09 maxm-: just saying, no offense intended 22:10:21 mon_key: it is even documented! :) 22:10:27 madnificent: well I take the incremental way ;-) 22:10:31 *[6502]* all of a sudden feels very human... with the strange idea that there is always a logic or a rule, even when there is none 22:10:37 madnificent: ok for states, I understand 22:11:18 Shiryu: you probably want language to be &optional and you probably want to get it out of a special variable for its default as well. that way you'll be able to load your application with a language and you don't need to pass it in each step. 22:12:17 madnificent: oh yes, you are right 22:12:29 treyka [~treyka@85.234.199.185] has joined #lisp 22:13:25 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 22:13:32 H4ns: would this parameter have been added somewhere around the change from drakma-1.2.5 -> drakma-1.2.6 ? 22:13:57 mon_key: did you check the changelog yet? 22:14:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:37 afternoon 22:15:54 H4ns: i don't see it in the CHANGELOG.txt of 1.2.6 but id does appear that the version of drakma i'd been using was 1.2.5 and out of date. 22:16:23 mon_key: it is in 1.2.6. sorry for missing to mention it in the changelog 22:17:04 H4ns: Thanks for your help and for the maintainership of Drakma 22:17:08 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.100.5] has joined #lisp 22:18:17 *madnificent* wonders if H4ns will be the next lisp legend to be interviewed 22:18:55 madnificent: I tried suggesting it on that blog but didn't feel like registering a username :) 22:18:58 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3fd1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:17 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:19:22 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-91-176.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:36 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@192.188.108.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:45 second call for common lisp on ARMv6? I have one recommendation for clisp, I have failed to make ecl functional, I might try gambit or guile, but I prefer CL over scheme 22:21:51 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@100.Red-88-11-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:22:11 Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 22:23:05 clisp is full GPL, which doesn't really jive with what I'm doing 22:23:54 ynniv: what happened with ecl, it didn't compile? 22:24:09 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:19 it was very unhappy that my CPU was software floating point 22:24:36 libffi failed hard, but the latest source of that compiles 22:25:04 ecl has some floating point options, but disabling them still resulted in compiler errors 22:25:13 I'm working with the fun_plug distro right now 22:25:25 ynniv: you had some mismatch between different fpu abis then 22:25:39 also, v6k/v6zk had hw floating point usually 22:26:20 ynniv: oooooh, is that for the raspberry pi? 22:26:20 but most code requires software fpu *abi* 22:26:21 this is a ARM926EJ-S 22:26:28 ouch 22:26:31 no, but its very similar 22:26:43 Pi got ARM1176JZF-S 22:26:47 the raspberry pi is not to my knowledge soft float 22:26:48 ynniv: price + link + tell me if you get it running? 22:27:09 it's an old D-Link removable drive bay 22:27:19 ah old, nvm then :) thanks though 22:27:31 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822155003 22:27:43 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 22:27:56 ynniv: ARM926E-J is ARMv5TEJ 22:27:59 not v6 22:28:06 which might be involved in ECL issues 22:28:13 oh? I'm even farther off than I thought then 22:28:31 v6 is the ARM11 series 22:28:33 well, does anyone have an ARM platform recommendation around ~ $100? :) 22:28:53 I had this around and it's reasonably functional 22:30:02 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:10 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:30:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.108.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:30:46 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-217-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:21 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-217-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:31:28 I'm interested in working with something of the scale of the raspberry pi, but already in production 22:32:56 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 How important/necessary is it to hide Hunchentoot behind a proxy (if at all)? 22:33:14 for security? 22:33:40 people have done much worse 22:33:41 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:52 ynniv: Pi 22:34:15 ynniv: you might look at the beagle boards 22:34:23 usually there's a proxy to provide static HTML, other virtual hosts, URL rewriting, etc 22:34:25 ynniv: it is in production... the cheapest alternative could be a palm pre :) you can run CCL on it really easily (but i doubt it has handy io) 22:34:26 robot-beethoven: depends on the workload that you expect. 22:34:46 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081BB36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:34:52 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:48 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-217-109.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:35:50 I suppose by "production", i meant "available". They haven't shipped any Pi's yet, correct? 22:35:59 -!- kwmiebach [kwmiebach@vps-6813.united-hoster.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:26 the palm pre won't have USB or SATA connectors on it 22:36:49 robot-beethoven: also, while hunchentoot certainly tries its best at connection management, it is not great at dealing with large numbers of incoming connections and it also is not clever about reducing the open connections under high load situations 22:37:01 ynniv: it has usb 22:37:10 can lispworks free edition be used with slime/swank? Got to fix lispworks specific bug 22:37:15 robot-beethoven: that is something a modern http frontend can do for you, with little or no inconvenience in your backend. 22:37:24 ynniv: they have been produced, but something was lagging. probably in a week or 2, i think. 22:37:34 ynniv: but it doesn't have sata either iirc 22:37:43 -!- albacker [~eni@unaffiliated/enyx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:56 H4ns: this is the url i'm using: http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/graphicMaterials/label/Actions%20%26%20defenses 22:37:57 ynniv: in which "it has usb" was on the pre, and all other was on the Pi 22:38:20 this is the puri:uri i see in the response: http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/graphicMaterials/label/Actions%20&%20defenses 22:38:29 I like the Pi, but I'll be busy with my own bugs for now. maybe next year 22:38:39 mon_key: that is with the preserve-uri parameter or without? 22:38:47 both 22:39:18 mon_key: then you have a bug. 22:39:39 Ok. i will file it on the github then. 22:39:40 mon_key: can you open an issue with instructions on how to reproduce, please? 22:39:44 yep 22:39:44 mon_key: thanks! 22:39:47 thank you! 22:40:22 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.100.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:52 *[6502]* thinks picolisp bracket superparenthesis is truly horrible... 22:41:06 H4ns, ynniv: thanks! I'll browse around, but any recommendations for a light frontend that sits well with Hunchentoot? 22:41:20 robot-beethoven: i'm using squid and i still like it a lot. 22:41:30 robot-beethoven: i might be the only one. 22:41:32 I like lighttpd. Other people here use nginx. 22:41:59 i've also seen people use varnish 22:43:05 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:16 the beagles don't have SATA either. this D-Link is really exactly what I want, except for the old processor. bleh 22:43:57 which ARM CPUs are known to run a common lisp well? 22:44:07 ynniv: "none" 22:44:39 hmm, am I right lispworks does not have professional 64bit edition for linux? 22:44:49 *maxm-* not gonna waste $4k just to fix bugs in his lib 22:45:08 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 22:45:13 There's a Heroku setup for Hunchentoot that got set up this week. 22:45:18 kwmiebach [kwmiebach@vps-6813.united-hoster.de] has joined #lisp 22:45:25 madnificent suggested that the palm pre runs something "easily"? 22:45:48 ynniv: for some value of "easy", plus he has not really used it himself :) 22:45:53 ynniv: it runs CCL 22:45:54 madnificent: excuse me. 22:45:57 :) 22:46:09 H4ns: it took me about 15 minutes. you have a shell in the palm pre and a unix environment. 22:46:15 -!- Shiryu [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: emacs upgrade] 22:46:16 ccl runs pretty well on the trim slice (and on a tegra 2 development kit that hardly anyone has). 22:46:36 ynniv: but i agree insofar as ccl on armv7l is probably the best you can get 22:46:37 *madnificent* hasn't done app development with it though. just ran it for fun. 22:46:47 robot-beethoven: I've been able to get dynamic content running on Heroku/Hunchentoot ; it's not terribly hard. I haven't figured out the static content display yet. :-/ 22:47:06 *H4ns* started ccl on a bugbase (beagle board clone) and that worked a bit. 22:49:28 Also the efika mx works ok, although it's a bit slow. The smarttop is only $129 though. 22:49:47 hmm, do we not expect the Raspberry Pi to run CL then? 22:49:56 it being ARM11 (v6)? 22:50:06 yan_: no. 22:50:07 conntrack [~tor@pdpc/supporter/professional/conntrack] has joined #lisp 22:50:35 yan_: it is probably possible to port it, but it requires real work (aka gb/rme) 22:50:57 H4ns: I think you are talking to the wrong user. 22:51:02 dam 22:51:04 n 22:51:19 ynniv: that was for you 22:51:22 oh 22:51:23 *H4ns* needs to sleep 22:51:25 *sigh* 22:51:43 doesn't ECL run on the iPhone? 22:51:47 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-2.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:56 there's a version of the iPhone that arm6 22:52:18 goodnight H4ns 22:52:27 (now! ;) 22:52:30 ynniv: it is possible to get clisp or ecl to run, but i have not personally heard of anyone doing real work on that. 22:52:38 ah 22:52:42 madnificent: "need" does not equal "will" 22:52:47 BBShortcut [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:17 *austinh* had clisp running on a Zaurus at one point, but that was short-lived 22:53:19 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-107-122-25.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:25 *BBShortcut* is the upgrade of Shiryu 22:53:34 H4ns: the followup was part of the message 22:54:23 ynniv: Yes, you can kick over ECL on the iPhone, but I don't know how far people have gotten. I'd like to try to build a Lisp app by the end of summer. :-) 22:54:37 -!- cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:52 -!- kwmiebach [kwmiebach@vps-6813.united-hoster.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:20 I was working with gambit-c on the iPhone until an upgrade to 10.7 broke compiler support and shelved the project for now. 22:55:29 cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:07 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:56:21 it appears that the last arm6 iPhone was the 3G, which might be old enough for people to not care. so, not a good example 22:56:24 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.220.217] has joined #lisp 22:57:08 -!- cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:04 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 23:02:26 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-97-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:32 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-160-124.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:38 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 23:05:16 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:06:14 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:06:43 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:10:03 BrianRice` [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:03 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-125.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:03 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 23:14:22 rme: looks like the Trim-Slice is currently my best bet. thanks! 23:14:57 ynniv: re xcode, can't you switch back to gcc? 23:16:08 I would still have to code sign and whatnot 23:16:25 but Mark suggested that I keep a second install of the tools 23:16:30 it's just too much hassle right now 23:16:54 https://mercure.iro.umontreal.ca/pipermail/gambit-list/2011-October/005402.html 23:17:34 cafesofie [~user@ool-18e4c9a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:07 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:26:54 -!- Arbamisto [~Arbamisto@192.188.108.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:29 -!- [6502] [5e24f39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.243.156] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:28:32 mon_key: try my patch: https://github.com/edicl/drakma/commit/0b96b2bac5111238239d14acc86ccc794e7e1664 23:33:16 *H4ns* calls it quits. nite. 23:35:12 -!- Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-72-37.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: going home] 23:36:22 H4ns: I'll try it. Thanks! 23:37:55 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177889799.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:39:31 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5ED0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:33 H4ns: your patch worked for me 23:48:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:35 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-74-68-151-24.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzzzzzzzz] 23:51:42 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:53:32 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.54.87] has joined #lisp 23:53:41 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-74-68-151-24.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:54:02 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 23:55:10 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-74-68-151-24.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:36 -!- kmcorbett1 [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:01 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving]