00:05:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:05:38 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:05 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:51 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:48:50 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:50 00:48:50 -!- names: ccl-logbot KDr2 rvirding lebro killown Kenjin Vicfred Flea86 wildnux The_thir- xan_ mjonsson homie` wbooze` Hexstream Bike DataLinkDroid X-Scale` ignas tensorpudding EmmanuelOga daniel Amadiro_ Phoodus Kryztof Kron_ ltriant naryl otwieracz jcazevedo kilon_alios MoALTz_ benny Ralith nowhereman proq RazWelles Ttm docAvid ko1 SegFaultAX|work EarlGray enn wishbone4 cpt_nemo blackwolf Harag AntiSpamMeta mathrick tsuru urandom__ Mandus ikki totzeit acelent 00:48:50 -!- names: alexzin stlifey a7p rme joast lemoinem [SLB] dfox alvis gensym killerboy Nshag prip Zephyrus maxm- StrmSrfr gaidal jjkola_work kuzary peccu1 samebchase kennyd keltvek yroeht wakeup ozzloy Modius parabolize snits arbscht twopi rabite_ rotty dys dmiles_afk jjkola __main__ ianmcorvidae Euthydemus rson kwmiebach airolson sykopomp guther cyphase ghuntley ``Erik jayne dan64 _stink_ pok luis rvchangue CrazyEddy Sgeo_ Vivitron abeaumont austinh madnificent 00:48:50 -!- names: ivan\ BlastHardcheese machine2 surrounder ecraven kleppari Obfuscate mensch jakky vsync pchrist dubellz tessier hugod quazimodo nialo- sellout em froggey McMAGIC--Copy cmm nuba s0ber billstclair Patzy sawgij eno nicdev_ r126f kaol Munksgaard housel arnsholt easye Kvaks alanpearce_ setmeaway segfault_ CrazyThinker jsoft anonus BrianRice phadthai araujo REPLeffect copec fe[nl]ix fukushima gf3 Enoria srcerer theBlackDragon klltkr TristamWrk Praise oconnore 00:48:50 -!- names: bzzbzz lnostdal DGASAU pjb adhoc dryman Riz_L dmh stepnem Xach foom vpit3833 yeatman KingThomasIV schoppenhauer tr-808 OliverUv niko ramus tali713 FireFly pkhuong sigjuice Nisstyre ch077179 karswell EyesIsServer cmbntr syrinx_ r_takaishi Khisanth axion gabot YokYok mon_key tswett j_king Fade quasisane dcguru felipe sie djinni` Intensity djuber conntrack jsnell micro ejohnson |3b| gkeith_lt howeyc eMBee hyoyoung new sepi daimrod drdo acieroid chr` loke 00:48:50 -!- names: snorble_ Odin- Neronus gz eli Axioplase macrobat Posterdati xristos PissedNumlock tic Borbus bps mtd MikeSeth Dodek rlb3 DrForr oGMo boyscared _3b___ shachaf Bucciarati Jabberwockey sshirokov jiacobucci __class__ November Jasko spacefrogg ft setheus zbigniew Kovensky 16SAASELP qsun cataska johs p_l foocraft cods tvaalen cmatei SpitfireWP ironChicken SeanTAllen drysdam ski_ aerique Tril z0d finnrobi kloeri PuffTheMagic gemelen ve rdd freiksenet clop 00:48:50 -!- names: simon_weber ered felideon SHODAN Subfusc cow-orker aoh k9quaint galdor tychoish yan_ timb devhost dsp_ dRbiG rootzlevel hyko gffa df_ peterhil dlowe jeekl izz_ reb newcup scharan Yamazaki-kun antifuchs ec tomaw kanru jasom limetree Inode guaqua literal Xof_ adeht jlaire vhost- redline6561 g0 daedric_ anthraci- mikekelly rtoym mal yeltzooo ArmyOfBruce erg flip215 _root_ sbryant scode Utkarsh e__krappi jaimef cYmen basho__ joshe mgr H4ns sav Zhivago 00:48:50 -!- names: theconartist pokes Tristam fmu billitch_ herbieB_ noopyks ineiros antoszka jrockway Tordek koollman clog 00:50:39 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:51:41 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has joined #lisp 00:52:42 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:55:08 erm, how does one turn off the return value for function ? 00:55:21 what does that mean? 00:55:29 it has something todo with print i think 00:55:36 homie`: ... you don't? just leave nil or T if you want as the last one 00:55:43 *last form 00:55:53 i don't want neither a return value of nil nor t 00:56:04 at least printed i mean 00:56:16 i'm evaluating via C-j in *scratch* .... 00:56:23 return values are not printed. 00:56:32 it sounds like you want #emacs 00:56:34 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 00:56:51 hrm, i'll ask there 00:57:28 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 00:58:43 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-145-218.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:58 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 01:02:20 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 01:02:46 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-147-91.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:03:55 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:05:38 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:09 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-184.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:06:37 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 01:06:46 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:05 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:07:39 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:21 -!- Flea86 [~Flea86@c114-76-82-206.thoms3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Station breakdown] 01:09:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.124.232] has joined #lisp 01:10:39 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:53 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:12:35 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:13:38 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:16:51 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:17:47 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:03 SPECIAL-OPERATOR-P is really supposed to return true only for the 25 standard special operators, regardless of any implementation-defined ones, right? And do all implementations currently do that? (I know I reported that SBCL didn't some time ago, hopefully it's been fixed by now.) 01:22:13 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:24:14 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:24:57 Hexstream: special-operator-p is mainly for the convenience of code-walkers. 01:25:13 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:17 Hexstream: that's my reading of the spec. don't know about the latter question. 01:25:49 Zhivago: So I'll take that as a "yes" for the first question... 01:25:51 Hexstream: I think that it would be sensible for a system to extend special-operator-p to include its extended set of non-decomposible operators. 01:26:09 Zhivago: That wouldn't be standard. 01:26:10 hexstream: But anything using such code would not be conformant CL, ... 01:26:17 Right. 01:26:21 hexstream: So there wouldn't be a problem. 01:26:58 Basically if special-operator-p returns true upon an unknown symbol, then you know that you're not dealing with CL. :) 01:30:28 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:56 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Quit: o/] 01:34:10 Are format strings, without using ~/, turing complete? 01:34:29 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:34:43 Sgeo_: no 01:35:39 Ah, darn. That would have been interesting. I guess there's no way to store stuff? 01:35:52 I noted conditionals. 01:38:49 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:07 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:05 Sgeo_: There would be if it was in this form: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128010#4 ;) But you could use ~* to refer to one parameter multiple times within the format string, skipping at different positions as needed. But it makes the format string even more incomprehensible, usually... 01:41:16 In KoiosLisp, they will be ;) 01:41:24 (mwahahahahahaha) 01:41:42 Hah, I had no idea that STRING< and friends returned mismatch-index instead of just a generalized boolean! 01:42:00 A mismatch-index *is* a generalized boolean... 01:42:14 I think you missed the "just". 01:42:34 Hexstream, I think deleting the word "generalized" from what you said would make some sense? 01:42:51 Sgeo_: Not really... Generalized boolean is a real CL concept... 01:43:27 A boolean is just T or NIL. Anything can be seen as a generalized boolean. 01:43:47 Right, so what is "just a generalized boolean"? 01:43:52 "I didn't realize it was 42 instead of just an integer!" would elicit the same response from me. 01:44:16 Hexstream: actually, some of your projects seem like pretty cool additions into KoiosLisp 01:44:33 A generalized boolean can only be considered to hold the same information content as a boolean, without additional information. 01:44:55 Is there a way to, in the format string, put a value into the parameter list if it wasn't there originally? 01:44:57 So, "just a generalized boolean" means "anything, but you need to consider it as being nil or not nil". 01:45:20 Sgeo_: Nope. 01:45:30 Ok 01:45:49 *Xach* learns something new every day 01:46:59 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: good night] 01:47:06 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:27 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:31 Cosman246: You'd be the first to care about my projects. o_o But don't worry, you'll have some company by the end of the year! 01:49:55 I feel kind-of happy being the first 01:50:24 though I'd have to consider ITERATE when talking about LOOPLESS 01:51:28 Anyway, the only code *I* have on github is a hacked-together, probably borken MUD engine 01:51:45 You'd have to consider not considering Loopless, for now. The project has not yet produced meaningful results, concretely. 01:51:51 I see 01:54:18 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:37 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:55 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:57 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:34 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:34 yates [c05b42bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.91.66.189] has joined #lisp 02:02:36 Hmm, what's the way to find out the dynamic-space-size from within SBCL again? 02:03:07 the obscurely-named sb-ext:dynamic-space-size 02:04:36 Xach: Ok, so this is really bothering me. Isn't it the case that a mismatch-index-or-nil has strictly more information content than just a generalized-boolean would have (oh I did it again), and therefore that it makes sense to say that "it's a mismatch-index, not just a generalized boolean"?... I don't see how you can't see this. 02:05:11 Like, at first I expect something generic, and then I find out that it's more specific. "Oh, it's more specific than I thought, not just a generic answer"... Right?... 02:05:24 Hexstream: I didn't know the correct definition of generalized boolean. Now I know. 02:05:36 Xach: Oh. Ok then. 02:05:49 Hexstream: I thought it meant an potentially information-carrying result, but it doesn't. 02:06:52 Good, now I won't have to lose a night's sleep over it. ;P (Ok, so I'm exaggerating. But still.) 02:09:02 *Xach* fixes core-compression support in buildapp 02:09:03 An implementation can in fact return a more "information-carrying" result while being conforming, but a program that then relies on this more specific information would not be... 02:10:48 is there a package for managing a bdb database ? 02:11:08 or other simple databases? 02:11:11 yates: Hmm, I don't think there's anything direct. Elephant has berkeley db support. 02:11:19 yates: there are a few sqlite bindings 02:11:25 and a CDB reader and writer 02:11:34 Xach: or even something internall maintained? 02:11:41 CDB? 02:11:51 dj bernstein's "constant database" 02:12:06 fast lookup in a static database file 02:12:27 i.e. to update it you have to write a whole new file. but lookup is fast. 02:13:04 Xach: Some time ago you complained that nobody was using zcdb for anything serious, or something like that. Not sure if that counts as serious, but I want to make a symbolic database for CL soon, and I'll quite probably use zcdb for persistence. 02:14:10 Hexstream: cool. it no longer has a critical bug that hits on more than the lightest use. 02:14:11 I was considering using CDB for pregenerated static lookup tables for android apps, and would probably end up either using shell or Lisp for generating them. Sadly, nothing comes to me right now 02:14:42 (as in, android application that needs to include k/v data) 02:15:20 To make an in-memory representation of the CLHS, among other things. And then libraries will be able to symbolically refer to standard symbols, and add their own definitions and "overlays". Among other things it could make it easier to generate cool documentation, with tables and stuff. And search interfaces. 02:16:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:16:51 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:17:10 If you think big enough... 02:17:12 oh! there's this: http://www.xach.com/lisp/zcdb/ ! :) 02:17:28 yates: What kind of stuff do you want to do with a simple database? 02:17:55 Hexstream: BTW, I write that a lot, but I first read it by Erik Naggum. He recycled quips like crazy, so maybe he didn't come up with it either. 02:18:01 i want to use it to main a bunch of measurements for my code, such as data ram usage, program ram usage, MIPS, etc. 02:18:11 for each module, that is. 02:18:14 maintain 02:18:42 would cdb be a good choice for such an application? 02:19:08 Ok. I don't think the project I'm describing warrants "If you think big enough...", though. Only sounds like a medium-sized project to me, honestly. If I don't get carried away with crazy complex unnecessary features. 02:20:00 i also need to be able to distinguish between different instances of each module; e.g., i have an assembly version and a c version of some modules, and i'd like to maintain assembly MIPS and C MIPS, 02:20:07 I'm not talking of putting the ENTIRE contents of the CLHS in the database. Just a useful and "tractable" subset of the useful information within. 02:20:40 yates: CDB is good if you want to look up the values a lot and only write them infrequently. 02:20:49 or would i really need a relational DB? 02:21:06 ok, lemme have a closer look 02:21:21 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:25 springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has joined #lisp 02:21:42 yates: I use cdb to map strings to integer IDs quickly. The data is only very infrequently updated but looked up a lot. 02:21:59 yates: if all you need is key-value store, RDBMS is unnecesarry 02:22:20 p_l, well it seems maybe more than key-value 02:22:43 02:22:45 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-112.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:22:51 e.g., i'd like to query: "What are all the properties of module Abc" 02:23:15 where properties are asm-mips, c-mips, asm-ram, c-ram 02:23:28 or "what are all the asm-mips for all modules" 02:23:30 yates: cdb is not good for that 02:23:39 hmm. 02:23:44 yeah, i was afraid of that 02:23:54 better something like sqlite? 02:24:16 yates: if the data is tree structure, you might consider using a database that will return all keys (ordered) that begin with provided prefix 02:24:42 nah, more i think, i need a relational 02:25:08 so what's the simplest relational db cl package? i'm slow, and don't have much time... 02:25:29 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:25:29 sqlite? i guess? 02:25:34 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:45 yates: an example would be a POSIX filesystem-styled hierarchical database, where you'd have /modulename/{arm,mips,c}/{subproperties} 02:26:17 yates: sqlite is simple, but doesn't seem to have a lot of following from portable packages 02:26:23 or at least, it doesn't jump at me 02:26:36 p_l: yeah, i thought about the directeory approach 02:26:57 yates: there are databases that support tree form 02:27:38 tokyo/kyotocabinet, Berkeley DB 4, Google LevelDB, some of the nosql stuff, etc. 02:27:47 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:27:48 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 02:28:29 Xach: just saw your post about Common Lisp and Heroku. Very cool. 02:28:33 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:45 Kenjin, linky? 02:28:49 Xach: oh, did you write about it? 02:28:55 http://xach.livejournal.com/302627.html 02:29:05 -!- dubellz is now known as tdubellz 02:29:20 ah, someone's project 02:29:47 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:29:47 I kinda expected someone will get going with that, once they started accepting "whatever, as long as it runs on x86" :D 02:30:11 I don't know what Heroku is, but what the hell, they said something about a cloud 02:30:27 :P 02:30:31 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:50 Ah, WTF. clhs substitute says "substitute, substitute-if, and substitute-if-not return a copy of sequence in which each element that satisfies the test has been replaced with newitem." at the top of the page and "substitute, substitute-if, and substitute-if-not return a sequence which can share with sequence or may be identical to the input sequence if no elements need to be changed." at the bottom. So which is it?? Copy or shar 02:31:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.124.232] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 02:31:17 Cosman246: they started out as platform-as-service to make easy deployment of Rails stuff, back in 1.2 age when it was "VPS or dedicated" and there was no EC2 and other cheap clouds 02:31:47 Hexstream: it's a potential copy. 02:32:33 I guess... 02:33:29 p_l: I se 02:33:31 *see 02:33:43 I still think the cloud is intentionally ill-defined 02:34:18 It seems like a fashionable term and not much else 02:35:22 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:26 it's mainly fashionable stuff 02:35:51 if you look at it closely, IBM has been selling "private clouds" for decades 02:35:58 and not only IBM 02:35:59 indeed 02:36:06 I think the oracle exec. put it best 02:36:09 *p_l* is currently playing with z/OS 02:36:42 http://news.cnet.com/8301-13953_3-10052188-80.html 02:36:47 it would be cool to have lisp on that other than clisp/ecl (though I have yet to compile one of those... might be... "interesting") 02:37:48 What I find most interesting in Heroku is that you can have an app running in a few minutes. I find their free option is very feel suited for staging servers or small websites 02:37:49 the big thing could be the fact that "on-demand" functionality got into lower end 02:38:01 s/feel/well 02:38:17 and yes, Heroku is a good example of someone who got an idea beyond "VPS" 02:38:50 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:39:37 interestingly, I found people working on stuff that basically revives VM/CMS on Xen, except that instead of CMS, you run custom OS built using a framework to deal with some specific task 02:42:42 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:42:59 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314212.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:44:56 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 02:44:56 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 02:48:59 *Xach* wants to run some wigflip stuff somewhere on something like that 02:51:56 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:46 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:55:38 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:38 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:38 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:02:40 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 03:08:50 Tanner3 [~tanner@S0106f4ec38fdc4d8.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:02 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-234-118.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:23 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-234-118.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:52 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:46 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:15:52 wuj [~wuj@207.172.162.191] has joined #lisp 03:15:54 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:00 dys` [~andreas@krlh-d9be73a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:52 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-4d02ba64.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:23:17 http://kazimirmajorinc.blogspot.com/2012/03/few-examples-of-lisp-code-typography.html 03:25:53 Clearly McCarthy suffered from lack of paredit and slime. 03:26:32 Land of lisp attempts to deal with many slimes. 03:27:22 and AutoLISP from lack of contact with lisp communities ;) 03:28:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:28:40 mon_key: thanks! 03:28:48 Suppose I do something like 03:28:55 (defclass #:anon-class () ()) 03:28:59 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.184.114] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:29:07 Will that nameless class be garbage collected if it's not used? 03:29:13 speaking of land of lisp, would you guys recommend it for a beginner? 03:29:21 im browsing it and practical common lisp at the same time 03:29:23 Sgeo: It is not nameless. 03:29:48 dmh: I haven't read Land of Lisp. I really liked Practical Common Lisp. 03:29:53 Well, its name is inaccessible, right? 03:30:04 *Xach* owns Land of Lisp, really wants to read it sometime, has not yet 03:30:17 hrm 03:30:17 -!- wuj [~wuj@207.172.162.191] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:30:22 I wanna hit the ground running so to speak 03:30:57 practical common lisp it is :d 03:31:18 while I am comfortable w/ everything so far I havent 'got it' yet 03:31:25 to the point I want to do everything in lisp 03:31:53 Comfort takes time 03:31:58 Proficiency takes time 03:32:03 dmh: warning - one of the examples in PCL might leave you with this weird urge to write a database engine in future 03:32:23 let me put it this way, my dayjob is writing typical C# 03:32:37 learning C# 4.0 stuff opened my eyes to functional programming though 03:32:38 though it might be also the sign that you're getting comfortable enough with CL that you start to notice how "easy" it would be in CL 03:32:44 and now I just want to make personal programming fun again 03:32:53 p_l: haha, ok noted 03:33:16 dmh: LoL is good until chapter 8 03:33:23 then he speeds through a lot of stuff 03:33:32 which is better explained in PCL 03:33:41 I lose interest working on non-practical stuff sadly 03:33:54 on chapter 4, i'll keep that in mind :) 03:34:18 I saw a pic of some AutoLISP code, it looked uglier than Clojure 03:34:45 the AutoLISP one on that link doesn't seem so ugly, though 03:34:56 The problem with 'ugly' is that it is something that you learn. 03:39:07 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:08 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:36 the problem with mathematics is that it is something that you learn 03:42:45 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:42:56 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:02 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.197] has joined #lisp 03:46:45 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 03:51:14 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:53:31 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 03:55:34 Do I need something more to run sbcl darwin binary than "src/runtime/sbcl --core output/sbcl.core" ? 03:55:49 I'm getting "Don't know how to REQUIRE SB-POSIX." 03:55:54 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 03:56:07 Kenjin: you might also need to set SBCL_HOME 03:56:57 Data: No. 03:57:37 Xach: I should be able to run sbcl without running install.sh right? 03:59:41 Kenjin: yes. the easiest way is with sh ./run-sbcl.sh 03:59:54 Xach: yeah, just realized that ;) 04:00:59 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:01:00 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4BBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:39 pnq [~nick@AC814EDB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:39 gz [~gz@209.6.49.85] has joined #lisp 04:23:37 is there any other way to mark something as data other than quote? 04:24:24 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-wwouwfheyzpztpzt] has joined #lisp 04:24:25 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-wwouwfheyzpztpzt] has quit [Changing host] 04:24:25 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:24:52 dmh: backquote? why do you ask? 04:25:10 just curious 04:25:21 i dont 'get it' in that regard either 04:26:08 -!- Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-36-75.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:13 dmh: what don't you get? (sorry, i may have missed previous remarks if any) 04:26:21 `(data more-data even-more-data ,(code that makes data) yet-more) 04:26:29 That's the same as 04:26:45 (list 'data 'more-data 'even-more-data (code-that-makes-data) 'yet-more) 04:26:46 DataLinkDroid: nah you're fine, just trying to wrap my brain-goo around forms 04:26:54 hrm 04:27:06 Err, should be (code that makes data) 04:27:06 so just shorthand 04:27:24 dmh, note that it might not literally expand into list like that, but the meaning will be the same. 04:27:27 But yes. 04:27:30 sure ok 04:27:56 fractal_heart [~mzhang@adsl-71-146-132-146.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:17 (Note that I'm a bit of a Lisp newbie, and thus may be misunderstanding things) 04:28:50 (Well, not that much of a newbie? Also, have toyed with other lisps) 04:29:43 less newbie than I :p 04:31:57 tasksel --section server 04:32:05 er 04:34:49 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:34:52 michael_alex [~michael@c-76-105-6-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:38:05 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:40:02 -!- michael_alex [~michael@c-76-105-6-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:50:28 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@111.15.16.151] has joined #lisp 04:50:49 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@111.15.16.151] has quit [Client Quit] 04:55:14 what interpreter do you guys use? 04:55:55 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 04:56:10 none 04:56:14 all compilers here 04:56:44 which? 04:57:05 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:23 impulse32: you probably want to know which implementations of Common Lisp people use, do you? 04:58:25 SBCL, CCL (occassionally), ECL (even rarer), Allegro Common Lisp (for a current project), sometimes thinking about doing my own implementation using a lot of SBCL code 04:58:47 michael_alex_ [~michael@c-76-105-6-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:59:28 anyone use vim for lisp coding? 04:59:56 regrettably. 05:00:07 emacs is most common 05:00:27 people who use commercial systems also have a commercial IDE 05:00:35 impulse: I do. 05:00:58 Zhivago: you use any plugins or scripts for vim? 05:01:05 that help with development 05:01:10 impulse: No. 05:01:24 I also turn off syntax highlighting. 05:01:34 so you just edit and compile? 05:02:05 Or load or whatever, sure. 05:03:04 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.143.81.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:26 -!- Tanner3 [~tanner@S0106f4ec38fdc4d8.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 05:04:27 slimv might be worth looking at for vim, although I haven't tried it because I am happy with Emacs+SLIME 05:04:28 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:01 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:13:07 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:14:05 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has joined #lisp 05:17:19 gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:50 -!- gz [~gz@209.6.49.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:22:33 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:25:06 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 05:25:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 05:25:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 05:30:31 I should get a handle on the condition system 05:31:29 Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-36-75.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:33:34 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:40:10 Sgeo, read Pitman's papers 05:41:06 -!- Sgeo_ is now known as Sgeo 05:45:16 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-188701.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:04 Hmm 05:55:19 I wonder if coroutines could be implemented nicely via the condition system. 05:56:27 ...I wonder if I'm now sort of improperly imagining the condition system to be something like a delimited continuation thing. :/ 05:56:35 I still don't actually understand it yet. 05:57:09 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814EDB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:59:54 _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:24 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:00 Sgeo: No. 06:02:24 Sgeo: It's a combination of Signals and Handlers. 06:02:49 sgeo: An error is signalled, which invokes a handler -- just like in C, etc. 06:03:12 I'm thinking more of building continuation stuff on top, rather than ... hmm. Because some of what I'm reading does vaguely remind me 06:03:16 sgeo: Then the handler handles it -- one way to handle it is to look for a restart in the dynamic environment. 06:03:36 sgeo: And then you make a non-local transfer to where-ever. 06:03:55 I suggest thinking about what _problem_ you want to solve. 06:04:20 wakeup_ [~wakeup@p5DE8DF54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:43 I'm thinking a lot of problems I want to solve could be done with either delimited continuations or the condition system, enough such that I wonder how similar they may be. 06:05:23 Again, I need to read more. 06:05:31 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DC77.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:06:35 They're not similar. 06:06:35 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:48 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:07:08 Or it's as similar as catch/throw is. 06:08:15 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081E2D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:33 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:08:51 I think that one thing that is hard to grasp is that CL is fundamentally a low level language. 06:09:09 It just has a lot of convenience piled on top in its standard library. 06:11:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-130.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:12:17 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: .] 06:13:32 when creating utility functions that take a general sequence argument, how best to create a new return sequence of same type as passed in? 06:14:14 robot: I recommend not doing so. 06:14:18 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:38 Instead, allow the user to specify the type or supply a constructor. 06:14:50 ah, brilliant 06:14:53 thx 06:15:05 Welcome. Please learn how to spell "thanks". :) 06:15:48 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 06:16:40 Although you'll still run into the fundamental differences between vectors and linked lists. 06:17:12 Usually I handle that by just emitting values and letting the caller decide where to put them. 06:17:58 -!- wakeup_ [~wakeup@p5DE8DF54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:18:00 If you optomize for those two cases, are you pretty much covered? 06:18:09 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DF54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:34 Sure, since that covers the space of sequence types in CL. 06:18:46 But I'd still recommend the emission model. 06:19:10 e.g., (foo bar (lambda (value) (push value list)) 06:19:30 Often people don't want a sequence. 06:19:41 They just want values sequentially. 06:19:57 And if they get that, then they can put them into some sequency object if they want. 06:20:13 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.58.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:22:30 If I understand... istead of passing a sequence as an argument to the utility, map the utility over each element of the sequence. Do I understand? 06:22:40 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:22:44 I don't know how to spell "instead". 06:23:05 No. Instead of returning a sequence. 06:23:36 Although, you can get rid of the sequence on the passing side as well. 06:24:05 Then you just pass values sequentially to the processor and collect what it emits. 06:24:17 s/collect/sequentially read/ 06:25:26 So mapcar would become (let ((result nil)) (dolist (item input) (foo item (lambda (value) (push value result)))) (reverse result)) for the trivial case of one sequence 06:26:05 Then foo is the only interesting bit, and it just takes in a value and emits zero or more results. 06:27:57 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081E2D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:29 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-252-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:30:39 ranmocy [~user@2001:da8:8000:e082:20e:c6ff:fef0:1107] has joined #lisp 06:32:06 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DF54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:32:20 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DF54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:52 So you pass the sequence-builder (the lambda in your example) as an argument? 06:36:42 you can take note of the function MAP (and perhaps inspect an implementation), which takes a result sequence's type's name 06:40:55 are type specifiers implementation dependent? 06:41:49 robot: Sometimes. 06:42:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-19.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 06:43:41 robot-beethoven, also I recommend you check out http://common-lisp.net/project/sequence-iterators/ which has a MAKE-SEQUENCE-LIKE function 06:44:44 "It is recommended that a report message be a complete sentences, in the proper case and correctly punctuated." 06:44:49 *Sgeo* laughs 06:45:53 -!- ranmocy [~user@2001:da8:8000:e082:20e:c6ff:fef0:1107] has left #lisp 06:46:08 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-228-70.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:51 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:49:09 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-63.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:36 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:06 Should functions that are called only for a side effect have (values) at the end so they don't return anything? 06:50:32 Sgeo, I sometimes do that, but as a rule - I don't 06:51:31 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-40-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 shadwick [~erik@S01060026f395c2b7.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:25 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:53:17 adeht: say I'm going to follow MAPs example.... if caller passes in type-specifier, would it be proper to create a return sequence with (make-sequence type-specifier)? 06:53:18 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314212.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:53:36 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314212.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:54:11 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@adsl-71-146-132-146.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:55:03 robot-beethoven, the problem with that is that it doesn't take initial-contents 06:59:39 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:00:22 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 07:00:51 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-26-80.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:06 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:03:15 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:49 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.132.159] has joined #lisp 07:04:30 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-letotilgobatavcl] has joined #lisp 07:05:29 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:10 (though you can obviously use REPLACE or (SETF SUBSEQ) ...) 07:06:26 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 07:06:39 ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 07:08:50 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:00 -!- impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176314212.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:12:49 blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 07:14:27 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:14:44 "The interactive function, which can be specified using the :interactive-function keyword to restart-bind or :interactive keyword to restart-case, is used when the restart is invoked interactively, such as from the debugger, to produce a suitable list of arguments." 07:14:52 Why two different keyword arguments for the same concept? 07:15:59 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:16:26 Sgeo, it's two different layers and the expected argument is different 07:16:40 ..oh 07:16:41 RESTART-CASE is basically sugar over RESTART-BIND 07:17:32 -!- michael_alex_ [~michael@c-76-105-6-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:21:41 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:23:11 -!- X-Scale` [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:09 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host81.201-253-131.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:25:13 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:28:16 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-124.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-222-130.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:39:05 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-127-115.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:34 TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5363.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:54 nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:06 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:55 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:50:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:50:25 -!- alexzin [~Alexey@ppp85-141-147-95.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has left #lisp 07:51:08 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:39 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 07:52:13 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 07:52:41 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:52:56 tessier [~treed@wsip-68-15-4-17.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:26 -!- tessier [~treed@wsip-68-15-4-17.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:02 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 07:55:41 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:53 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:56:21 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:56:35 http://www.cliki.net/Infrequently%20Asked%20Questions 07:56:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:19 http://www.cliki.net/Annotations%20for%20Infrequently%20Asked%20Questions 07:57:25 I'm pretty sure that annotation is wrong. 07:57:32 "Because of how lisp quotes symbols, and due the the fact that the symbols exported from the COMMON LISP package are in uppercase, you'd have to use "(|SETF| *read-base* A)" or (|SETF| *read-base* 10.) to actually reset the *read-base*. Lispers find this sort of thing funny." 07:57:45 (|SETF| *read-base* 10) makes no sense 07:57:49 Unless it's the .? 07:57:55 tessier [~treed@wsip-68-15-4-17.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:05 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 07:58:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:58:20 morning 07:58:38 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:40 Hmm. 07:58:50 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:58:57 It worked for me on SBCL. I want to know how that's even possible. 07:59:13 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:00:06 Sgeo: it's possible, and also ridiculous. 08:00:26 the author probably forgot that modern-mode is not the default. 08:00:41 I am le confused 08:00:53 How does it not read 10 as sixteen? 08:01:32 oh (setf *read-base* 10) is a noop yeah 08:01:39 teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.39] has joined #lisp 08:01:44 but the quote was talking about setf. 08:02:21 I think my confusing is coming from the reader and printer using different bases. 08:02:28 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:30 *Sgeo* ,restarts 08:02:35 that can indeed be confusing. 08:02:43 and also irrelevant. 08:03:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128234 08:04:01 (In SBC) 08:04:02 SBCL 08:04:37 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 08:04:38 10. reads as ten, 10 reads as sixteen. 08:04:47 That's ... somewhat confusing I think 08:06:04 sgeo: try #o12, or #b1010 instead of 10 08:06:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.132.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:06:40 or keep a predefined constant +ten+ ;) 08:06:49 Hmm, so . at the end is similar for some bizarre reason? 08:07:00 To the #o12 thing? 08:07:30 Sgeo: "10." is a float ... don't know whether *read-base* accepts that 08:07:50 Certainly seems to 08:07:57 #o is octal, #b is binary representation - these have the base explicit, so are not changed by *read-base* 08:08:19 Floats ignore *read-base*? 08:08:29 it's not a float 08:08:52 Constant 16.0 conflicts with its asserted type (INTEGER 2 36), 16. works 08:08:56 interesting ... 08:08:57 the dot is called the _decimal_ point 08:08:59 #10r10 08:09:25 dtw, hmm, I can imagine an obvious reason why that might not work unless r is specified to always use decima 08:09:53 It works 08:09:55 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/CLHS/Body/02_cbaa.htm 08:10:17 Hmm, ty 08:10:21 That explains that then 08:10:53 -!- tessier [~treed@wsip-68-15-4-17.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:13 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:11:25 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:11:50 tessier [~treed@wsip-68-15-4-17.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:33 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-229-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:36 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:12:53 ~r seems useful 08:13:20 Is it correct that _all_ macro character arguments are parsed in decimal? #5#, #5A, etc.? 08:13:28 certainly looks that way 08:13:30 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:13:41 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:14:19 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-40-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:14:24 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 08:15:41 flip215: well, apparently not binary 08:16:15 before reading the spec, i'd try setting *print-base* and *print-base* 08:16:16 jdz: it's specified that _only_ 0-9 digits are allowed - else the "a" of hex could be the "a" of #a, too 08:16:26 flip215: OK, fair enough 08:16:57 flip215: then why the question? 08:16:57 jdz: (let ((*read-base* 2)) (read-from-string "(#5=1 #5#)")) 08:17:44 well, perhaps there are exceptions 08:18:34 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:18:58 yep, as per 2.4.8.15: «...n, a required unsigned decimal integer...» 08:19:02 What will happen to Common Lisp once English changes to such a degree that (format t "~r" 4) is no longer a reasonable way to print quantities? 08:19:07 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5363.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 08:19:31 Not that I realistically expect other languages to be able to answer similar questions, I guess 08:19:59 Hmm, although: It doesn't seem like a good idea for internationalization purposes. 08:20:07 Sgeo: implementation is specified to use English, so, implementations will use whatever English is at some point in time 08:20:38 Oh, good point 08:22:06 It doesn't seem like a good idea to use ~r due to internationalization issues though? 08:22:56 Nothing. CL is frozen in time. 08:23:10 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:23:20 I imagine CL will be of mostly archeological interest by then. 08:29:35 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:30:15 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 08:32:01 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:40 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:32:59 -!- tessier [~treed@wsip-68-15-4-17.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:33:19 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:33:22 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:33:23 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 08:34:16 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 08:38:10 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qzwpiuvrrzkqohia] has joined #lisp 08:43:52 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 08:45:40 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:45:50 morning 08:46:06 "A new Condition is defined using the define-condition macro. Conditions are sub-types of the error class" 08:46:07 Argh 08:46:33 Although, this is in a section about using Common Lisp conditions as though they were what other languages support 08:48:29 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 08:48:32 the last sentence doesn't make sense 08:48:39 http://vmathew.in/cond-sys.html 08:48:56 "Before plunging into the full depths of the condition system, let us see how Common Lisp allows the handling of exceptions in the traditional way." was shortly before the first thing I pasted 08:49:16 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:50:38 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:08 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:51:32 stlifey_ [~stlifey@116.26.30.163] has joined #lisp 08:51:32 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:09 for one, error is a type, not guaranteed to be a CLOS class 08:54:11 that article has several errors 08:54:19 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.19.141.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:55 mal, and conditions are a supertype of errors 08:56:27 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:56:29 ebw [~user@krlh-4d0205f3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:27 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:57:37 -!- Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-36-75.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:46 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.132.159] has joined #lisp 09:01:02 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:01:05 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:01:35 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-200-38.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:51 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-200-38.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:22 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.44.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:42 Why does paste.lisp.org offer an XML version? 09:05:11 I note that the XML has no attributes, which implies a rather direct translation to s-exp. Perhaps the XML is a translation directly from an s-exp? 09:06:44 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 09:06:45 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 09:06:51 -!- bas_ is now known as SKola 09:06:56 -!- SKola is now known as Skola 09:07:26 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:07:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:08:26 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.87.167] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:11:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-127-115.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:13:36 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:16:15 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:14 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-30-130.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19:29 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-30-130.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:23:28 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573aef.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:26:10 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@110.140.240.65] has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:27:29 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:15 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 09:30:15 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 09:31:36 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:33:13 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 09:42:28 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:42:38 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:43:55 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:43:56 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:44:10 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:44:13 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 09:45:43 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 09:47:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:47:50 Zhivago: notice that what happened in 1970 is the introduction of glass ttys. :-) 09:48:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: have nice weekend hacking] 09:49:02 1964 ;) 09:49:20 the shock was so big that the "paperless office" starts with that 09:49:29 The first one being the Datapoint 3300 shipped in 1969, says wikipedia. 09:49:58 That's when nicely formating code became inexpensive. 09:50:57 pjb: IBM 2260 which was video terminal capable of taking over the then-dominant cards shipped in 1964, says wikipedia 09:51:25 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@184.99.7.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:51:41 there were video terminals before that, but they couldn't put that much stuff on screen 09:52:07 though it still had separate controller 09:52:25 -!- Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:52:36 ktada [~ketan@123.237.231.29] has joined #lisp 09:53:10 apparently there was another, 2250 which was 1024x1024 raster/vector graphics device 09:54:22 sorry, I just spent few days in Deep Blue space (MVS and z/OS) 09:54:58 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:55:17 Well, they used oscilloscopes to make video output a long time before, but that doesn't count, this wasn't commercial products cheap enough. 09:55:24 Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has joined #lisp 09:55:26 Programmers still used punched cards and listing. 09:55:49 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:55:59 They switched to tty in the late 60's and glass ttys in the early 70's, hence the change in typographical layout of their code. 09:57:36 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:57:43 -!- springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:57:50 -!- Ttm [~ripault@sao-paulo.lrde.epita.fr] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 09:57:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:01:05 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 10:02:53 -!- dys` is now known as dys 10:08:46 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.104.185] has joined #lisp 10:09:39 TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5363.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:24 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:17:09 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573aef.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:28 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 10:24:19 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 10:30:52 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 10:32:09 y3di [~y3di@c-76-117-145-92.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:28 does being a lisp make a language automatically functional? 10:32:53 No. 10:34:13 -!- shadwick [~erik@S01060026f395c2b7.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:34:43 y3di: http://letoverlambda.com/index.cl/guest/chap5.html#sec_1  here's a stance on the subject. 10:34:54 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:35:01 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 10:35:55 thanks 10:38:14 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:16 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:38:25 -!- Ragnaroek_ is now known as Ragnaroek 10:39:44 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:41:32 krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 10:42:28 -!- krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has left #lisp 10:50:09 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-40-119.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:51:36 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.95.234] has joined #lisp 10:53:49 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-252-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:56:01 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:38 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:49 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 11:04:34 -!- ktada [~ketan@123.237.231.29] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:17:50 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573ae0.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:18:10 Hi all. Does anybody try heroku with cl by https://github.com/mtravers/heroku-buildpack-cl? 11:18:59 Has anyone tried*:) 11:19:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21:10 asvil: :) 11:21:39 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:17 Kenjin: you can take https://github.com/mtravers/heroku-cl-example and try it yourself ;) 11:23:24 ups 11:23:36 I meant asvil of course :P 11:23:39 that was weird 11:24:32 and i'd guess the author has tried it 11:24:48 yes 11:25:46 I'm about to have it work with sbcl and hunchentoot ;) 11:28:31 Hi! I made my trie implementation into a public Github repository - feel free to use and improve: https://github.com/peterhil/btrie/blob/master/btrie.lisp 11:28:37 The dag is obviously not working and is very preliminary version... 11:30:03 But the trie works 11:32:34 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:35:24 *Xach* has already snarfed it 11:36:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-152.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:38:11 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 11:38:51 Xach: y u no snarf brians-brain? 11:39:31 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:37 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:54 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.170.67] has joined #lisp 11:49:13 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:49:23 I has an the error. Heroku receiving push 11:49:23 ! Heroku push rejected, no Cedar-supported app detected 11:49:23 11:50:05 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:50:41 And is it reason, that I did not any payments to heroku? 11:50:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.95.234] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 11:57:20 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:57:57 -!- tr-808 [brambles@unaffiliated/contempt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:05 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DF54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:24 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 12:01:10 ebw` [~user@krlh-5f7222f5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:36 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:04:50 -!- ebw [~user@krlh-4d0205f3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:05:06 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-230.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:30 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host81.201-253-131.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 12:06:43 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-44.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:07:24 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:12:56 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:13:39 -!- nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:16:11 asvil: probably you missed something 12:28:35 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.24] has joined #lisp 12:28:58 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-124.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:36:37 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:43:20 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44:44 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-252-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:52:10 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:55:30 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 12:55:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:57:35 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 12:58:29 urandom__ [~user@p548A558A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:40 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 13:05:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:42 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:06:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 13:11:14 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:27 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:20:25 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:22:52 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:25 springz [~springz@115.174.223.129] has joined #lisp 13:29:37 pnq [~nick@AC81A1B7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:34 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:02 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 13:44:32 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:48:12 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:25 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:33 hi 13:50:45 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:50:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:50:52 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:55 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:52:11 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:45 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:54:10 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.84.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:29 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.87.33] has joined #lisp 14:02:29 hi 14:08:09 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:11:15 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-d9be73a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 14:11:33 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81A1B7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:18:29 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:51 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-72-233.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:23:25 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-72-233.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 14:25:12 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:31:33 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 hi 14:32:55 please help 14:33:19 ask the question first 14:33:30 I'm trying to write a macro to create an object from a sexp like (node :name "my-node" :id 10) 14:33:38 I wrote 14:33:47 (defmacro my-objectify (sexp) 14:33:47 `(make-instance (first ,sexp))) 14:34:21 and it worked quite well, but I need to initialize :name and :id too 14:34:43 depending on macro sexp input... 14:35:06 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-letotilgobatavcl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:42 well just do it 14:36:12 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA101B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:39 as in (apply 'make-instance (first sexp) (rest sexp)) ? 14:37:26 chr`: good, how can I test for correct first element (object type)? 14:37:26 er, dunno why I wanted to use apply. Remnants of code from earlier today, I guess. 14:37:53 Posterdati: why is it a macro? 14:38:12 just apply #'make-instance sexp and catch the error? 14:38:22 Posterdati: (defun node (&key name id)) (make-instance 'node :name name :id id)) 14:38:41 (well, you know what I meant to say) 14:38:55 jdz: I'd like to experiment with macros 14:39:18 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39:23 Posterdati: then you should know that a macro is just a function 14:39:34 Probably you meant to write (defmacro my-objectify (class) `(make-instance ',class)) 14:39:34 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:45 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 14:39:50 In which case, it should be easy to see how to do what you now want to do. 14:39:54 t7 [~chatzilla@mailgate.ips-international.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:55 Zhivago: class must be sexp 14:40:01 -!- bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:04 system f doesnt have let statements because first class polymorphism renders it redundant, is that correct? 14:40:24 bondar [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 14:40:36 Posterdati: probably sorting out all the confusion you have before getting to macros would be a good first step 14:40:47 jdz: confusion? 14:40:54 no 14:40:59 <_schulte_> Posterdati: maybe read a book and work with their examples, e.g., from a quick search see http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/macros.html 14:41:31 _schulte_: thanks 14:42:05 Poster: Also, are you familiar with macroexpand? 14:42:08 jdz: I need to generate lisp code depends on specific sexp 14:42:09 Posterdati: well, it seems you do not know or understand how to test something in Common Lisp 14:42:53 t7: what is system f? 14:43:07 a typed lambda calculus 14:43:34 lambda47 [~lambda47@221.200.81.80] has joined #lisp 14:43:59 -!- lambda47 [~lambda47@221.200.81.80] has left #lisp 14:45:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:47:15 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.58.205] has joined #lisp 14:47:44 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA101B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:26 t7: yes, but not the sort of thing discussed here much. 14:48:59 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:26 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:49:49 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 14:53:58 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:54:00 -!- momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573ae0.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:57:12 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-66-98.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:02:39 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-qzwpiuvrrzkqohia] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:36 Kron_ 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#lisp 15:41:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:44 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 15:43:30 Interesting, http://kazimirmajorinc.blogspot.com/2012/03/few-examples-of-lisp-code-typography.html 15:45:14 I was hoping for code typeset _in_ lisp 15:46:16 LiamH: thanks for the link 15:47:23 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:29 dekuked [~user@pool-108-7-203-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:00 chr`: (defmacro my-objectify (sexp) 15:49:00 `(apply #'make-instance (first ,sexp) (rest ,sexp))) 15:49:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:37 pnq [~nick@ACA27444.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:43 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:00 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:00 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:08 chr`: would be fine to create lisp code depending on (first ,sexp), I'll find out how 15:50:38 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120305181207]] 15:51:20 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.72.233] has joined #lisp 15:51:33 Posterdati: For that macro to justify its existence, it would be better to expand into make-instance. 15:56:49 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:57 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:08 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:01:45 -!- samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:02:08 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:02:32 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:31 -!- t7 [~chatzilla@mailgate.ips-international.com] has left #lisp 16:04:53 Xach: it was only a test to study macros functionality 16:05:31 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:35 It is a bad test. 16:05:43 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:45 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-127-115.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:25 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:28 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA101B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:35 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:38 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:10:39 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A558A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:55 mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has joined #lisp 16:12:27 Xach: yes, my purpose was to generate code depending on (first sexp) 16:13:50 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:14:30 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:17:29 Posterdati: what you need, is ,@(code that returns a list based on (first sexp)) 16:18:19 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 16:18:49 Posterdati: like this: `(make-instance ,@(if (eq (first sexp) :cat) (list 'cat :sound "meow") (list 'other-animal :sound "?"))) 16:19:19 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:19:30 maxm-: that's still a bad example of macros. 16:19:59 sykopomp: it meant to be a tool to pierce Posterdati misunderstanding, not a real life example 16:20:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 16:20:01 and in fact, might confuse people, because (intern "CAT" :keyword) won't work. 16:20:32 sykopomp: 1st argument of make-instance is class name, which is not a keyword, so 'cat is fine there 16:21:13 Posterdati: are you familiar with what a macro is? 16:22:04 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 16:22:14 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:18 maxm-: the first argument is a class. 16:22:24 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:54 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-106.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:23:04 maxm-: what my point is that your macro example is going to check the literal, compile-time value of sexp's CAR. Only *literal* :cat will work. 16:23:10 samebchase [samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:29 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:34 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 sykopomp: again, the actual condition I used is not important. It could have been (if (my-predicate-p sexp)).. I only used it as an example, since Posterati's question was "how do I generate different code depending on examining sexp" 16:24:59 shees, what a bunch of nitpickers 16:26:28 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:34 slyrus: NP. Looking forward to cl-vcard API for serialzing/transforming parsed vcard's 16:29:05 Posterdati: I found it helpful to realize that ` is a template system that makes it easy to construct lists of mostly constant stuff mixed with dynamic stuff (via , and ,@). And that a macro is about examining an input list and producing an output list. 16:29:28 ` itself is not magic; you can do the same thing with CONS, LIST, LIST*, etc. It's just less terse. 16:30:34 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 16:32:18 Phooodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:08 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:33:27 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 16:33:39 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:35:05 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384578.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:36:05 sykopomp: it seems that our disagreement is about what he was actually asking, IMHO he was asking for "how to access literal macro args, from inside of backtick", so that what I showed him. 16:37:32 dtw [~dtw@62.237.32.2] has joined #lisp 16:37:42 -!- dtw [~dtw@62.237.32.2] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:42 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 16:42:38 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has left #lisp 16:48:56 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:52:16 sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:44 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:53:12 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 16:53:55 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081D3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:05 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:08 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 16:55:41 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 16:55:44 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.120.228] has joined #lisp 16:56:34 i'd like to revisit the database decision i was talking with Xach et al. about yesterday please 16:56:46 what would be ideal 16:57:06 would be a relational database 16:57:12 and ... 16:57:13 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.108] has joined #lisp 16:57:56 yates: I like to use postgresql and postmodern together. 16:58:28 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:40 -!- springz [~springz@115.174.223.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:00:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.170.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:06 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:01:07 maybe rucksack? 17:01:49 and.. 17:02:01 sorry - had a discussion with a colleague 17:02:18 something that i wouldn't have to configure a server for, something simple that cl could manage all by itself 17:02:49 Xach: yeah, i like postresgl too. 17:03:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:03:26 i.e., i don't need an enterprise level, networked database 17:03:35 just something simple to store my data in.. 17:03:43 sqlite? 17:03:46 yates: Text files? 17:03:48 but yet has relational capability 17:03:52 (print) is a good tool 17:04:00 loke: relational. 17:04:28 last i checked, print wasn't relational 17:04:36 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:51 yates: details 17:04:52 :-) 17:04:53 sqlite is pretty snappy and has the rdbms conveniences .. good alternative to flat files 17:05:20 oGMo: ok, lemme have a lookie / readie on the internet 17:06:07 there are probably some pure lisp things you can use for object storing, but i don't recall anything that has relational integrity/aggregation/indexing beyond that 17:06:19 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-66-98.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:19 oGMo: yeah, this looks good! 17:06:52 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-66-98.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:07:24 and i suppose cl-sqlite is the standard package to use for this database? 17:07:25 just note that pushing it beyond "i need a file to save things in" is probably unwise 17:08:09 oGMo: i don't think that's goign to happen, given the application i have in mind 17:08:44 it appears to be, but i have not used sqlite with lisp specifically 17:08:47 oGMo: is the datastore for sqlite a file, or some convenient cluster of files, i.e., something i can actual check into a version control 17:08:55 yates: a single file 17:09:06 cool - then this is THE ONE(TM) 17:09:13 berry good. 17:09:13 yates: see its website for lots of handy details 17:09:14 thanks all. 17:09:25 ok 17:10:12 yates: the C source code of sqlite is also some of the most heavily commented and informative C source I've ever seen. 17:11:14 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-66-98.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:11:37 springz [~springz@216.24.205.54] has joined #lisp 17:12:06 the anti-procmail 17:12:14 heh 17:12:28 it's so well written that a guy was able to easily translate it into javascript 17:12:45 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.72.233] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:12:59 http://opensource.apple.com/source/procmail/procmail-1.2/procmail/src/procmail.c -- for reference 17:13:43 Xach: really? ISTM sqlite's "C" source is machine generated. 17:14:01 pkhuong: Really? I'll have to revisit it, then. 17:14:05 they ship procmail ?? 17:14:59 Xach: I guess you were reading the pre-mangled source. They go through insane contortions to help inter-procedural optimisation. 17:15:18 yates: Why does everyone want "relational capability?" 17:16:46 it's useful 17:17:00 reb: because data integrity is nice :p 17:17:15 -!- springz [~springz@216.24.205.54] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:17:23 yates: rucksack is CL-based embedded db 17:17:39 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:07 You might need transactions and indexes, but with a nice domain-specific language (for iterating over indexes, etc.) and an interactive REPL, you probably don't need SQL. 17:18:46 impulse32 [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176442207.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:18:53 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:19:49 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:57 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:20:05 Xach: ... what the fuck did I just read? (regarding procmail) 17:20:24 read some cl-ppcre source to cleanse the palate 17:20:26 reb, why reinvent the wheel, especially when there is clsql? 17:21:18 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:52 oGMo: clsql isn't necessarily a good choice 17:22:23 clsql has plenty of limitations 17:22:27 I also find that when developers use a relational DB the need to map everything onto tables screws up their ability to think logically about what they're really doing with the data. 17:22:40 I recently deployed an application using it. I had to, since I was using Oracle 17:22:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.34.127] has joined #lisp 17:22:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.34.127] has quit [Changing host] 17:22:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:22:53 (print/read) is fine for small stuff, but gets slow as you approach a few megabytes 17:23:06 loke: it appears hu.dwim guys have some Oracle code as well 17:23:33 *loke* has written a layer on top of clsql that I program against. That allows me to access other databases (in particular, JDBC on ABCL) via the same API 17:23:46 oGMo: I didn't mean to suggest wheel reinvention ... I think think yates should consider rucksack, elephant, cl-prevalence, etc. 17:23:54 *nicdev_* agrees with reb on relational database screwing how you thin 17:24:00 p_l: it doesn't work. It's specifically targeting Oracle Express (which is notthe same things as Oracle proper) 17:24:34 loke: doesn't it use OCI, and thus should be patchable easier than writing from scratch? 17:24:35 p_l: not that complete eh? too bad .. i've done language bindings for sql before and fairly complete/extensible coverage shouldn't be that hard 17:24:44 If you're interested: http://code.google.com/p/dhs-db/source/checkout 17:25:06 I'm currently building a mapping for postgres 17:25:08 of course writing sql in your code isn't best practices, either 17:25:10 oGMo: I'm not talking about completeness, but about various big parts of the codebase behaviour 17:25:11 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:25:17 but straying from lisp here :p 17:25:22 p_l: ah 17:25:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-106.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:25:59 -!- Phooodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:14 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:21 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:26:35 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:50 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:57 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:26 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:40 loke: in re api.lisp: I'm not sure why you define some of those generic functions. 17:28:05 sykopomp: what do you mean? 17:28:08 like, why are connect/disconnect/prepare-statement/execute-prepared/etc generic? 17:28:21 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:35 loke: what do you plan on dispatching on that will be useful? 17:28:37 sykopomp: because the underlying implementations has their own versions 17:28:59 loke: versions that dispatch on what? 17:29:00 So there is a CLSQL backend, a JDBC backend, a Postgres backend. Etc 17:29:09 loke: looks very nice, adding OCI level should be trivial 17:29:18 they dispatch on the database connection object 17:29:30 its pretty much the same, ie connection/statement/execute and result column accessors 17:29:32 look at the clsql directory for details 17:29:37 loke: there's no database connection object for the genfuns I mentioned. 17:29:51 sykopomp: ah, but there is a database-type 17:29:58 there is a specialisation on the type 17:30:16 http://code.google.com/p/dhs-db/source/browse/jdbc/dhs-db-jdbc.lisp#43 17:30:18 there is one 17:30:25 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-30-130.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:27 what about prepare-statement/execute-prepared/etc? 17:30:43 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-50-126.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:30:53 sykopomp: same thing there. prepare-statement returns a prepared statement. These can be different depending on backend 17:31:05 in addition since around version 9g, oracle has awesome thing, that instead of the whole batch stuff, they added a flag setting, that automatically does it for you. Its something like OCISetBatchSize(500), OCI api stays exactly same (retreive work with 1 row at a time), but underneath it uses batch stuff, speeding up reading lots of data by around 4-5 times 17:31:13 then execute-prepared dispaches on the prepared statement object. 17:31:14 ah ok 17:31:38 There is a generic prepared statement implementation that works if the backend does not support prepared statements (like CLSQL) 17:32:08 The generic prepared statement implementation is in prepared-statement.lisp 17:32:09 does the prepared-statement object have a pointer to the connection? 17:32:16 sykopomp: yes 17:33:55 that makes sense, thanks 17:34:24 It works pretty well. It's deployed in a web application at a customer right now 17:35:18 My postgres code has not been pushed yet, so it's not there 17:35:40 I'd also like to write a native Oracle backend, since CLSQL is a bit of a mess 17:35:58 I would probably end up doing something like (defun exec-prepared (stmt args) (exec-prepared-using-connection (prepared-connection stmt) stmt args)) (defgeneric exec-prepared-using-connection (conn stmt args)), along the lines of what AMOP does. 17:36:27 sykopomp: yes. 17:36:44 sykopomp: I have definitely considered that 17:37:08 you'd only need to define a single class for each backend, that way. 17:37:20 I needed to keep the API intact though because of the project I was working on. I didn't want to refactor all of the code in it because I wanted to fix the API 17:37:38 Xach: thanks 17:37:42 sykopomp: mm... We'll see what I do 17:38:03 It's pretty stable and proven right now though. I might push it to QL at some point. 17:38:13 But that takes documentation. And that's boring. 17:38:43 Xach: so a macro is a mere list manipulator. Isn't it? 17:39:25 Posterdati: compile-time data manipulator. 17:39:37 that returns forms. 17:39:41 sykopomp: ok 17:39:42 ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-229-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:05 Posterdati: consider (defmacro other-way (code) (reverse code)) 17:43:17 Posterdati: Try (other-way "foo"), (other-way (1 2 3 +)), and (other-way ("foo" "bar" 'string concatenate)) 17:43:35 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:44:01 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-106.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:44:01 sykopomp: reverse reverses every sequence? 17:44:20 sykopomp: does reverse reverse every sequence? 17:44:24 Posterdati: and try using (macroexpand-1 '(other-way ...)) on each form. When you're done, write (defun fun-other-way (value) ..), and try the function on the same data. 17:44:27 REVERSE ALL THE SEQUENCES 17:44:32 posterdati: macros can run arbitrary code, but because of the way they are called and the way there output is used they are often used to create lists 17:44:34 Posterdati: clhs reverse. 17:45:07 I hope it'll be clear to you what the difference between macros and functions is from playing around with this example. :) 17:45:30 sykopomp: yes very different 17:45:45 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:51 sykopomp: so, at compile time macros are substituted with code, then code is executed normally with the program flow 17:47:15 Posterdati: they're substituted with the return value of the macro function. 17:47:23 sykopomp: ok 17:48:21 posterdati: character streams are READ, typically into nested lists of symbols, macros are called with those lists of symbols as their arguments, the output of the macro is what the compiler works on 17:48:33 sykopomp: in your example (reverse code) is executed as form but it is the macro return value 17:48:53 Posterdati: no, the return value is whatever (reverse code) returns. 17:49:02 and -that- is what replaces the macro form in your code. 17:49:23 sykopomp: aaah ok 17:49:26 Posterdati: but please /q me if you want to talk more about this. There's better topics for #lisp than macrology 101 17:49:37 chrstphrhrt [~chrstphrh@modemcable006.138-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:49:42 sykopomp: oh thanks 17:50:01 Hmm, functions can be created "dynamically" with (setf (symbol-function (intern "FOO" "MY-PACKAGE")) (lambda () ...)). Is the same possible for symbol macros? I mean without (eval `(define-symbol-macro ...)). 17:50:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.108] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:50:27 b 17:50:45 posterdati: if you type the macro at the repl, the macro's output is executed before you see it. that's why he suggested (macroexpand-1 '(other-way ...)) 17:50:48 dtw: if it was, the change would only apply to anything newly read, so there's not much point 17:51:46 what should I be using if I want to be saying "get next item" a lot? is anything better than just a normal list? 17:51:54 Vivitron: yes, tx, now it is more clear 17:52:14 snowbeard [~user@c-71-198-213-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:19 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128212186.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 17:53:41 Ralith, I have dynamically created (and sometimes deleted) package and I need to create its content dynamically. Well, (eval `(define-symbol-macro ,(intern "FOO" "MY-PACKAGE") ...)) seems to work. 17:54:59 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.108] has joined #lisp 17:55:13 -!- The_thir- is now known as The_third_man 18:00:24 I'm having a bit of mental trouble figuring out how to do basic euler stuff, right now my pseudocode is this: https://gist.github.com/2007774 18:00:50 I think I need to use labels, but other than that I think it will map okay 18:01:48 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.84.37] has joined #lisp 18:02:30 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@174.137.255.113] has left #lisp 18:02:40 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-400967.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:04:04 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:04:47 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-049-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:09 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384578.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:05:40 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 18:06:04 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA101B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:33 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-69-212-127-115.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:07:00 dekuked: You might get more people will to help you with Lisp than almost-lisp-pseudocode. 18:07:50 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-321378.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:08:51 austinh: I'm sure, I just had so much trouble writing lisp that I kind of wanted to take a step back to familiar territory 18:09:06 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:09:59 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-400967.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:44 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 18:15:17 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:16:48 TheMue_ [~TheMue@p5DDF5363.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:17:54 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host81.201-253-131.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:18:06 dekuked: read a tutorial. There are tons of tutorials listed on http://cliki.net 18:18:16 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5363.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:18:16 -!- TheMue_ is now known as TheMue 18:18:23 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.120.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:39 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.132.83] has joined #lisp 18:23:25 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:36 cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 18:29:44 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-049-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:30:44 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.11.254] has joined #lisp 18:33:44 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 18:34:57 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:41:08 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:44:36 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396088.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:45:19 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:47:14 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-321378.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:49:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.108] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:51:20 *sykopomp* eyeballs Erlang's gen_server/supervisor/application behaviors for a possible Lisp port. 18:52:45 sykopomp: you may be interested in cl-muproc 18:53:24 I don't need massive concurrency for supporting the above. They're more architectural utilities. 18:54:52 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5363.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 18:54:55 oh sorry, I confused cl-muproc with some other library that got mentioned here recently that used cl-cont to simulate small processes. 18:55:02 galdor: thanks for the link. I'll take a look. :) 18:56:51 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.84.37] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:58:31 kai_ [~kai@e179023029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:07:23 Phooodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:38 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:25 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:36 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:11:07 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:15:34 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.132.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:46 -!- y3di [~y3di@c-76-117-145-92.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:19:35 y3di [~y3di@c-76-117-145-92.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:19 -!- TristamWrk is now known as elw0 19:23:37 -!- elw0 is now known as TristamWrk 19:23:54 -!- y3di [~y3di@c-76-117-145-92.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:26:40 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:56 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:35 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:28:53 rvrebane [~rvrebane@77-233-74-52.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #lisp 19:30:54 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:32:00 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 19:32:08 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1C01.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:24 kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 19:35:10 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:35:36 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:36:04 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.197] has joined #lisp 19:38:47 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:16 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:41:44 benny` [~benny@i577A7125.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:59 krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:03 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:44:34 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:46:08 -!- krrrcks [~krrrcks@krrrcks.de] has left #lisp 19:46:48 um, in slime what's the command to go the line/point triggering the erro? 19:46:51 error* 19:46:58 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-106.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47:35 C-h m will tell you all the keybindings for the current mode. 19:47:46 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@77-233-74-52.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:58 dekuked: "v" on a frame. 19:49:30 dekuked: often, it will take you only to the top-level form that caused the error. just so you know. 19:49:39 cbp`` [~user@187.208.0.7] has joined #lisp 19:49:53 You can recompile that form with C-u C-c C-c and restart evaluation to get finer-grained locations. 19:51:49 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:52:16 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-035-184.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:20 Xach: C-u C-c C-c in the debugger, or back in the form's source? 19:54:19 febeling [~febeling@e179075173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:23 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:55:01 Either one. 19:56:42 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEF31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:11 blimey, there's a voice from the past 19:58:22 (on sbcl-devel) 19:58:40 -!- cbp`` [~user@187.208.0.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:02:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:03:30 I was reading the SBCL manual yesterday, cover to cover. 20:04:18 There were a couple teensy tiny things for which I want to send patches. Mostly typos or bits of out-of-date stuff. 20:07:08 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-106.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:08:08 that is the kind of stuff I could imagine merging in a free moment 20:08:15 what did you think of it as a manual, though? 20:10:19 Hard to say. I need to finish reading. Some of the historical stuff seems less interesting and relevant these days. 20:10:40 Even though they are prefaced with "you don't need to understand this, you can skip this", I was reading end to end, so. 20:11:03 Also sometimes amusing to see dates and version numbers so distant in the past. 20:11:52 I learned stuff about the compiler output that I did not know before, which will be helpful. 20:12:33 yes, I was looking at it yesterday as well and thought it might help if someone went through and reevaluated every sentence that reffered to a version 0.x.y of sbcl 20:14:22 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:21 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 -!- Phooodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:48 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:01 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.217.183] has joined #lisp 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[~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:55:58 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-133-147.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-63.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:57:16 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:58:37 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-135-202.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:38 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-133-147.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:14 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-139-82.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:02 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:54 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-135-202.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:07:36 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:28 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-234-118.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:15 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-243-39.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:13:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:14:58 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396088.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:20 gigamonkey [~pseibel@adsl-108-200-141-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:32 Afternoon. 21:16:34 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18:10 yo gigamonkey 21:18:42 Well, I can say I've brought Lisp to Etsy insofar as I installed SBCL and Quicklisp on my work machine. 21:19:28 Phase I complete 21:20:09 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-55-141.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:21:49 -!- killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:18 dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has joined #lisp 21:24:03 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:24:08 killown [~geek@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 21:25:34 -!- yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:01 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:30 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 21:27:15 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:04 being inside a LET doesn't intefere with this being tail recursive, does it?: (let ((x 1)) (recurse x)) 21:29:13 robot-beethoven: no. 21:29:23 Dodek: thanks 21:29:45 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:30:22 "no" as in "no, it doesn't", double negation in english is a bit confusing for me 21:31:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:05 or maybe it should go "yes, it doesn't" 21:33:04 n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.227.12] has joined #lisp 21:33:42 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:37 Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-136-192.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:34:52 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326302.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:55 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:35:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:35:28 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.217.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:36:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-124.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:10 -!- daniel [~daniel@p508291BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:23 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:27 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:38:14 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:38:54 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:50 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:40:42 robot-beethoven: depends. If it's a dynamic binding, then it is not a tail call. 21:41:04 pjb: hi! 21:41:06 That's why tail call optimization is not required in CL. 21:41:08 Posterdati: Hi! 21:41:14 how are you? 21:41:19 Fine, thanks. 21:41:38 good 21:42:40 pjb: ah, but all lexical bindings are tail call optimized? (if implementation supports) 21:43:50 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:43:51 robot-beethoven: they can be TCO'ed yes. 21:44:05 robot-beethoven: but you can't count on it. Depends on your implementation. 21:44:17 And your debug settings. 21:44:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:44:22 robot-beethoven: is it you? -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp3VTJmHsKc 21:44:27 robot-beethoven: but there are a lot of operators that use dynamic binding of some sort. A lot of with- macros hide a unwind-protect that makes their final form not a tail call. 21:45:16 shadwick [~erik@host138-221.wifi.ubc.ca] has joined #lisp 21:46:22 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 21:46:27 -!- shadwick [~erik@host138-221.wifi.ubc.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:46:46 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Client Quit] 21:46:57 -!- Phooodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:13 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:14 Posterdati: no, that's not me. I'm just your plain old robot-beethoven 21:47:54 -!- malbertife [malbertife@bl7-33-152.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:48:04 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 21:48:36 gigamonkey, pjb: so is it considered better practice to use the iterative constructs vs tail call recursion? 21:48:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:49:09 robot-beethoven: I'd say so. 21:49:34 If you want to write code that relies on TCO, you know where to find Scheme. 21:50:23 monxx [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:50:54 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 21:54:10 How sanely does the condition system work when something that raises a signal and has a restart is passed into a higher-order function like mapc? 21:54:29 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:54:44 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:25 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:55:26 Sgeo: what is your concern? 21:56:03 That, not knowing how the condition system works under the hood, they may not work as I expect them do 21:56:41 Sgeo: you need to read up on how they work 21:57:09 how does one move around quickly when editing lisp with paredit? I usually use C- to move by words/sections, but with paredit enabled I'm stuck moving kind of slow 21:57:10 Sgeo: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html 21:57:46 dekuked: C-h m 21:58:17 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.184.114] has quit [Quit: rme] 21:58:41 I secretly want to write shift/reset in terms of the condition system 21:58:43 >.> 21:58:51 Sgeo: want want want 21:59:13 dekuked: try the mnemonics [n]ext, [p]revious, [f]orward, [b]ackward, [t]ranspose, [k]ill try every combination of those letters and ctrl, alt, ctrl+alt 21:59:31 oooooooooor read the docs. 21:59:52 this will be helpful on top of the docs. 22:00:29 Vivitron: thank you! Ralith: The docs are still pretty confusing for me to navigate, but I will look there next time 22:05:46 -!- ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:34 okay, well M-f and M-b seem to be what I usually accomplish through C- but M-p/M-n complain of "No next note" 22:06:59 it will cycle compiler errors if you have them linked in that file or give repl history in the repl 22:11:00 C-h k will tell you what command a keystroke is bound to. 22:11:12 -!- febeling [~febeling@e179075173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: febeling] 22:11:19 and C-h m will tell you what keys are bound in the current mode(s). 22:12:16 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:16:13 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:17:22 sorry for another emacs question, but why is that when I hit M-. over a symbol, sometimes it gives me an option of pages to choose from? I mean, how is the choice of which function definition the code using be optional? 22:18:01 dekuked: slime shows you the list of defined methods for the function that you've typed M-. on 22:18:14 dekuked: it can't guess which of the definitions you want to see. 22:19:13 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:19:16 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:47 h4ns: what? I want to see the definition that the code is being compiled with. 22:21:36 dekuked: what symbol did you type M-. on to get a "option of pages to choose from" 22:21:37 ? 22:21:54 dekuked: i'm asking to make sure we're on the same page. 22:22:22 I'm guessing it's a generic function and it's showing him all the methods defined on that generic function. 22:22:37 austinh: that is what i guessed, too. but i'm not sure. 22:22:58 H4ns: well I'm just trying to read code atm, so for example this has popped up when trying to follow socket stuff, asking if I want to see the usocket or openmcl ones 22:23:16 dekuked: ok. then you're looking at generic functions, which can have multiple methods 22:23:36 dekuked: you'll have to read up on generic functions in order to understand what is going on 22:23:57 I'm guessing it's just multiple dispatch based on arguments? 22:24:06 dekuked: correct. 22:24:06 Why guess? 22:24:27 dekuked: but there is more. you'll have to read to understand it. 22:25:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-175.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:25:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-172-196.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:30:32 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-40-119.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:31:50 dekuked: I use C-M-f and C-M-b a lot. 22:32:39 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@ip98-169-80-239.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:39:06 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@178.47.227.12] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:39:08 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:23 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:26 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:58 -!- monxx is now known as lebro 22:43:02 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-85-102.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 22:43:17 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081D3A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:46:26 pjb: M-f/M-b act the same as C-M-f/C-M-b for me. What do they do differently for you? 22:47:29 -!- yeatman [~tim@pool-71-243-244-79.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:48:25 I think one of the modes I installed might be overriding the functionality you are talking about or something. Or maybe I'm screwing up the key-chords. 22:48:31 C-M-{f,b} work on sexps 22:48:40 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-136-192.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:42 they don't always do what i anticipate but if you stand on a ( C-M-f will move past the ) 22:50:18 phb/limetree: ah thank you, I was using it inside of a function, I had no clue that binding is this awesome. Thank you! 22:50:22 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:52:01 most paredit binds work on sexps 22:52:05 that's their point, really 22:53:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:06 -!- dekuked [~user@pool-108-7-203-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:20 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:33 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:04:01 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 23:05:07 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-188-217.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:07 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-188-217.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:05:07 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 23:06:07 ddv [~ddv@unaffiliated/ddv] has joined #lisp 23:09:17 Can you build until-it-dies? 23:09:24 It doesn't work on my Linux system. It used to... 23:09:32 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:11:57 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:13:07 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:15:55 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:17:51 I should get out a pen and paper 23:17:55 Maybe then I can work it out 23:18:58 work out what? 23:19:10 your penmanship? 23:20:42 shift/reset and any way to use the condition system to implement such 23:21:49 I have the distinct feeling that I'm missing something about shift/reset that menas it won't work out like I keep thinking it will 23:24:05 dekuked [~user@pool-108-7-203-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:20 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:23 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:07 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-85-102.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:33:42 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEF31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:37:09 *Xach* updates quickproject 23:37:31 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:27 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:43 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:55 rme [~rme@50.43.184.114] has joined #lisp 23:50:05 -!- sie is now known as zii 23:50:30 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-230.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:37 malbertife [malbertife@bl7-33-152.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:52:18 Restarts HAVE to have a name? There has to be a symbol of some sort, and I can't just say that xyz variable contains the symbol? 23:52:40 Because if so, then ... well, I'm still not entirely sure wtf I'm doing, but that may or may not force me to use macros. 23:53:56 you wouldn't be able to capture continuations anyway 23:54:31 without rewriting the code you're trying to capture, of course 23:55:41 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-124-106.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 23:56:19 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.11.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:56:31 Sgeo if you want it to be dynamic, maybe you should look at catch/throw. But maybe you should just rethink why you think it needs to be dynamic. 23:57:22 stassats: I just updated slime and I get "Required module SWANK-IO-PACKAGE::SWANK-CLIPBOARD was not provided" on start. any idea ? 23:57:51 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 23:58:01 ferguson [~ferguson@h189.212.140.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:42 -!- ferguson [~ferguson@h189.212.140.67.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has left #lisp 23:58:55 fe[nl]ix: what's the rationale for doing libfixposix as a C lib, rather than in the lisp bindings, btw? 23:59:18 -!- chrstphrhrt [~chrstphrh@modemcable006.138-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:59:50 Ralith: macros 23:59:56 fe[nl]ix: yes