00:00:50 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:38 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.114.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:42 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:49 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-170-209.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:09 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:15 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:21 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-170-209.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:05:31 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:40 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 00:07:36 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:07:56 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:27 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:09:32 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-170-209.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:11:43 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:16:52 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:53 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129239249.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:09 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:56 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:24 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 00:20:59 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:25 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@pool-74-108-167-200.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:25:48 *maxm-* re-reads exchange above, and realizes his words were probably offensive to someone who takes chess seriously as a hobby. If you got offended, I apologies, I was talking out of my ass there 00:28:04 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:32 now all chess players can breath a sigh of relief 00:30:02 cool, cos I was already imagining waking up next to chess large knight's head :-) 00:30:20 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 00:30:41 lol 00:32:02 -!- koo2 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:02 -!- ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:02 -!- k1o [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:26 ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:32:37 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:42 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 00:37:45 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:39:44 even the guys of www.lispworks.com say they only support clim for legacy applications 00:39:56 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:40:00 fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has joined #lisp 00:43:32 -!- snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:44:17 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-171-202-150.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:54 is there a better alternative to clim 00:45:13 anything 00:45:17 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:23 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-nvqigifmgecvzcku] has joined #lisp 00:45:23 haha fair enough then 00:45:26 just unfamiliar 00:46:28 *hefner* extends middle finger 00:46:40 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:46:51 *p_l* would love a CLIM-style command system, though, especially the listener part 00:47:30 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:47:44 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 00:52:53 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Quit: even in laughter, the heart of Snorlax is sorrowful. and the end of that mirth is heaviness.] 00:55:32 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:36 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.157.101.18] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:56:55 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:58:23 msmith2 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-145-177.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:33 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-210-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:01:25 hi all, i'm trying to create a usocket client with the following (defparameter my-stream (usocket:socket-connect "localhost" 4000)) and i'm getting invalid keyword argument: :SERVE-EVENTS (valid keys are ... 01:01:31 any thoughts? 01:01:57 old usocket/old sbcl 01:02:00 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 01:04:55 stassats: hmm ok 01:06:45 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.71.206] has joined #lisp 01:09:46 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:10:31 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:18:24 *Xach* gets ready to make a new release!! 01:18:37 yay! 01:19:03 so many new projects and updates 01:21:20 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:24:34 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28:33 \ 01:31:13 *Xach* wonders what to do with genworks-gdl 01:31:43 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-85-111.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:32:53 Xach: what makes you doubt? 01:33:30 Doubt what? 01:35:08 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-135.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:35:59 existentialism? 01:36:10 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:30 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-220-8.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:36 you were wondering what to do wiht genworks-gdl. that hints me you doubt about inserting it (and otherwise i expected to know what the doubt was about when you'd say what it was exactly). 01:36:57 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:38 It doesn't fully build because it uses quicklisp as a supporting library. 01:37:48 My build system does not actually build with quicklisp integrated. 01:38:08 can you install quicklisp using quicklisp? 01:38:20 nope. 01:38:36 He seems to be using it for some of the portable things I define, but I'm not sure exactly what. 01:38:43 I haven't read the code to see. 01:39:46 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:10 could you include it and contact the author asking to remove that dependency for said reason? 01:41:41 If it has never built, I can't include it. 01:41:55 I have contacted the author about it. 01:48:44 -!- msmith2 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-145-177.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:49:29 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:25 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:35 is there "trivial-launch-browser"? 01:56:37 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:57:22 stassats`: no. i really wish there was something like that. browse-url or similar. can be customized with a smart default on mac, linux, & windows. 01:57:34 it would make some oauth crud easier for me 01:57:54 and with things like :new-window t 01:58:37 so, what's the most used process launching facility? 02:00:06 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.66.76] has joined #lisp 02:00:12 port browse-url! 02:00:42 or try xdg-open 02:01:16 xdg-open just launched firefox and i'm using opera... 02:01:40 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 02:02:00 *Xach* only knows about /usr/bin/open on MacOS X and gnome-open on linux 02:02:13 and "cmd " on windows 02:03:15 http://frank.zinepal.com/open-a-file-in-the-default-application-using perhaps 02:03:45 xdg-open tries to detect your desktop environment and calls the (gnome|kde|...)-open 02:03:47 i'll just write a browser in CL so there won't be a need 02:04:05 but i don't have a desktop environment! 02:04:18 kanru`: thanks, good to know 02:05:25 *stassats`* just wrote (sb-ext:run-program "opera" (list url) :search t :wait nil), good enough 02:05:30 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:41 -!- r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:06:22 heh 02:06:28 (:go url) 02:06:35 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:06 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:00 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:35 DataLinkDroid [~David@120.153.85.20] has joined #lisp 02:12:14 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 02:13:54 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:58 <_schulte_> does documentation exist for toot? 02:16:48 yoklov_ [~yoklov@137.99.228.131] has joined #lisp 02:20:04 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.228.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:20:40 springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has joined #lisp 02:22:15 -!- fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:26:25 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:22 urandom__ [~user@p548A3152.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:35 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:18 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 02:46:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:47:55 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 02:51:26 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:55:08 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:59:44 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:00:08 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:36 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:02:27 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vqzwjwykknetpqpo] has joined #lisp 03:03:35 -!- rme [rme@F367759E.4E81D677.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:03:36 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:05:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:06:09 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:58 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:07:14 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:32 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:26 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:53 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3152.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:07 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:21:20 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 03:22:33 Hmm. Can't remember if fixnum is a class or not.... 03:22:45 It's a type. integer is a class. 03:22:52 Which is arse-backward. 03:23:29 Ok. Why is that backwards? 03:23:45 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f71e4c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:23:48 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:23:52 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:01 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f71e5ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:17 Because fixnum/bignum correspond to the implementation of the object, which is normally distinguished by the class. 03:24:33 And integer doesn't. 03:24:52 So having integer as a type, and fixnum/bignum as classes would make a lot more sense. 03:25:14 It's just cruft left over from the land of pre-clos. 03:25:41 -!- yoklov_ [~yoklov@137.99.228.131] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 03:26:53 I see. But fixnum could be a class and it is in cmucl, sbcl, and, I think ccl. Ecl complains that fixnum is not a class. 03:27:14 It isn't a class in CL. 03:27:30 But implementations can add extra classes to correspond to types if they like. 03:27:44 So, ECL is correct, afaik. 03:27:51 Agreed. And neither is double-float. Dang. 03:28:20 But this is good. Makes the code more portable. 03:34:38 cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has joined #lisp 03:39:52 lcc [~user@71-222-135-74.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:26 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:42 Yay! Matlisp now run with ecl. 03:40:51 rtoym++ 03:41:34 Mostly thanks to someone contributing a cffi interface for matlisp. Couldn't have done it without him. 03:44:47 pkhuong: Say, your napa fft looks pretty cool! (Haven't used it, but the reading the docs was very interesting.) 03:48:15 rtoym: thanks (: I'll probably go for multi-dimensional DFTs next (surprisingly easy when you have bit reverse)... Then, either some ricing with all four DIT/DIF forward/inverse transforms and a generalisation of bit reverse, or non-power of two transforms (which doesn't that interesting for 1d transforms). 03:48:43 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:48:49 ricing? 03:49:41 And why are are non-power of two transforms for 1d transforms not interesting? 03:50:33 A ricer is someone who spends a lot of time tuning their (usually japanese) car. 03:51:21 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:51:24 And 1d non-power of two is mostly achieved with (more or less clever) padding. With multi-dimensional transforms, we can skip transforming rows known to be all zeros. 03:53:18 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:43 That, or you can try to implement generators/routines for more radices than just 2/4, which I most likely won't. 03:55:10 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:56:58 -!- lcc [~user@71-222-135-74.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:56:58 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:59:25 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21632.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:04:37 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 04:06:11 snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:17 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:59 -!- snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:07:33 snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:07 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:04 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:41 mornin 04:17:16 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:07 -!- dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:20:32 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:36 (reduce [list 'orelse] body :from-end t)) 04:28:50 How is that valid CL? Does cl-stm use reader macros for some bizarre reason? 04:28:53 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-stm/doc/Interface.html 04:29:23 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.71.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:34 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-gkjusdanuxjkaoza] has joined #lisp 04:34:34 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-gkjusdanuxjkaoza] has quit [Changing host] 04:34:34 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:34:51 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:35:46 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:35:57 -!- dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 04:37:09 BrianRice` [~water@97-126-55-141.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:20 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:39:06 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:39 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-48-18.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:39:39 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 04:40:19 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:41:28 dan64- [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:42:15 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: .] 04:42:41 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.71.206] has joined #lisp 04:50:29 teggi [~teggi@113.172.47.199] has joined #lisp 04:53:07 fantasticsid [7ca06a0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.160.106.12] has joined #lisp 04:59:02 -!- dan64- [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 04:59:14 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.71.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:25 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:17 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.71.206] has joined #lisp 05:01:43 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 05:01:54 someone should extend the wikipedia article with the lisp machine features, it would come handy in a discussion I have now... :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_machine 05:02:19 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:02:28 dan64- [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:03 -!- dan64- [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:03:21 -!- kmcorbett [kmcorbett@clozure-9FE07BBF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 05:03:21 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:08:12 fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has joined #lisp 05:08:58 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 05:09:20 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.58.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:10:19 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:28 Efficient, user-managed, generational garbage collector: major collections are implemented via power cycling. 05:12:32 -!- fantasticsid [7ca06a0c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.160.106.12] has quit [] 05:13:02 tiglog [~topeak@123.114.127.36] has joined #lisp 05:13:17 fantasticsid [~user@122.224.85.198] has joined #lisp 05:13:31 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:07 like it or not this is the keyboard i will be using now. http://i.imgur.com/Ylinf.jpg 05:15:02 i've been altering keybindings and thought i might ask here and see if any of ye Lispers use laptops and what issues/solutions that occur to you. 05:15:34 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:47 for example i still have a numeric keypad, and i use the cursor keys on that instead of the tiny arrow keys they put on this keyboard. 05:16:05 hello kmcorbett . 05:16:56 dto: hello 05:16:59 dan64_ [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:17 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:18:14 except for the shrunken cursor keys, those are the same as my Model M-alike, so I can't imagine it'd affect keybindings too much 05:18:47 at least your left Ctrl key is in the corner; some laptop keyboards have the Fn key on the left, then Ctrl to the right of that, which is a real annoyance 05:18:47 wellll 05:19:18 (and of course with the numkeypad, you're now off-center to your display, which is just as terrible. Stupid short-screen... erm "wide-screen" monitors...) 05:19:26 Phoodus: right control is a pain to use though because of how far left it is . im coming from a keyboard with right control directly under RETURN 05:19:39 Phoodus: that's not a problem for me 05:19:47 true, I tend to use the meta keys with my left hand far more than my right 05:20:58 also this spacebar is short 05:21:02 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:21:08 that hasn't been a problem tho 05:21:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-210-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:21:30 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:09 Phoodus: i should get in the habit of actually using the capslock-as-control setting 05:23:42 it hurts my pinky 05:23:50 I should get in the habit of tab-as-control, capslog-as-run/stop 05:23:57 capslock* 05:24:08 I'm a fan of using the thumb for control 05:24:24 I have a "windows" button on my keyboard (why? I bought this wiyth GNU/Linux on it) 05:24:27 and I set that to be control 05:24:49 works better 05:25:28 the windows key should be supported for X hotkeys nowadays 05:25:34 just another meta key 05:33:17 tomodo: which linux? what brand 05:33:33 tomodo: i use the windows key for Gnome-do and also to switch desktops 05:33:49 i have another question 05:34:00 do people ever bind () to non-shifted keys in emacs 05:34:04 for lisping. 05:34:31 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.153.85.20] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:37:37 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 05:39:11 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 05:39:23 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Client Quit] 05:41:01 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:46:27 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:28 Kenjin_ [~josesanto@bl16-255-50.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 05:50:45 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:50:52 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has joined #lisp 05:51:02 vsync [~vsync@rrcs-24-173-173-81.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:51:51 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 05:53:09 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.66.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:53:36 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:58:13 -!- fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:59:27 I keep wanting to find out how to swap [] and () in my keyboard layout 05:59:38 but it seems to be this disproportionately involved and complicated procedure 05:59:40 so I haven't bothered 05:59:45 (or nonobvious, anyway) 06:00:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:03:48 wakeup_ [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:55 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:04:19 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:05:25 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p57A5750D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:09:43 Ralith you can map keys the way you like them to be on your keyboard 06:09:57 I am aware of that. 06:10:08 however, the process to do so appears to be involved and/or highly nonobvious. 06:10:12 so I haven't bothered 06:13:02 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:06 Ralith: xmodmap? 06:15:24 Ralith: check out xkeycaps 06:15:24 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:52 Ralith: but if you just want to swap a couple of keys it's a 5min process with xev then make a 4 line thing that you feed to xmodmap 06:16:01 i'm in the midst of something but i can give you pointers in a bit if you want 06:16:39 vsync: xkeycaps doesn't run correctly under a tiling wm 06:16:47 have tried it before 06:17:13 then yeah just go the xev route 06:17:15 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has joined #lisp 06:17:27 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:17:44 pointers and/or docs for that would certainly be appreciated 06:17:57 cool, let me unwind my stack first 06:17:58 -!- wakeup_ [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:18:20 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:06 (it strikes me as a little odd that there was no question whatsoever as to my OS) 06:19:17 (not to fault anyone, just funny how that worked out) 06:20:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:22:24 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:01 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:28:06 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:28:09 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:28:52 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:29:03 H4ns: ok, some very minor documentation added. 06:29:14 Ralith we did a ctcp version of you. and it returned linux :P 06:29:25 so you did. 06:29:31 :) 06:32:38 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:43 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 06:33:13 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:33:35 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:02 snowbeard [~user@c-71-198-213-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:05 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.129] has joined #lisp 06:45:15 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.89.251] has joined #lisp 06:46:29 -!- dan64_ 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seconds] 07:17:42 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:16 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:18:17 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:18:31 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:18:55 Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@89.146.13.124] has joined #lisp 07:20:22 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:20:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:24:22 zhaojun [~limingyan@218.205.172.2] has joined #lisp 07:24:39 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:28 -!- zhaojun [~limingyan@218.205.172.2] has quit [Client Quit] 07:26:41 zhaojun [~limingyan@218.205.172.2] has joined #lisp 07:30:21 Hi everyone! I am using Fedora,and installed sbcl,but when i type 'sbcl' in terminal,i got 'debugger invoked on a SB-KERNEL::MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR in thread',does anyone know what does it mean?Any Suggestion is appreciated! 07:32:38 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:32:48 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:33:04 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:33:25 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:46 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:34:59 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 07:35:35 moemoeo [~user@h-73-200.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 07:39:01 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:39:46 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ywgieqorbruwvmvy] has joined #lisp 07:39:52 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:40:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 07:41:07 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:30 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:41:58 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:01 -!- Ragnaroek_ is now known as Ragnaroek 07:42:03 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:20 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:42:27 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:54 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:53 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:48:11 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48:28 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:48:47 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:38 u 07:51:16 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:51:40 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:45 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:57:50 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:50 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 08:01:54 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:01:59 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:33 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 08:02:38 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:02:44 good morning 08:03:45 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:05:31 morning mvilleneuve! Still working on the super sekrit project? 08:06:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:07:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:09:57 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.72.245] has joined #lisp 08:10:23 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 08:11:25 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xebvpvrrxmjekxco] has joined #lisp 08:11:54 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:13:36 splittist: not these days (customer projects have overtaken r&d work), I'm not sure when we can return to it... 08:14:08 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has joined #lisp 08:15:15 -!- Kenjin_ [~josesanto@bl16-255-50.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:17:33 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:17:36 blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 08:17:38 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:03 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:22 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-210-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:23:25 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23:51 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:24:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:24:27 mvilleneuve: paying customers are good (: 08:24:41 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 08:24:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:30:23 splittist: they sure are, even though this can be frustrating 08:32:06 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:53 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:33:34 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:33:54 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:00 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 08:34:12 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 08:35:09 -!- lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:37 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:37:52 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AAA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:59 lcc [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 08:41:33 fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has joined #lisp 08:46:24 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:47:45 I'm possibly losing my mind and/or have forgotten the lisp indentation convention, but did emacs always indent CL with a mixture of one and two space indentation? 08:51:37 Farzad [~root@46.225.97.160] has joined #lisp 08:51:42 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:54:20 -!- zhaojun [~limingyan@218.205.172.2] has left #lisp 08:55:37 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:40 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 08:55:54 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 08:57:05 hefner: i don't think i've never seen that. I have (setq tab-width 2 indent-tabs-mode nil) and that seems to do the right thing. 08:58:39 hmm, probably time to flush out all the weird accumulated cruft in my .emacs and start again. 08:59:11 oh the happy days of having just ~/emacs 08:59:32 now I got 30 "my--config.el" files 08:59:46 sprawling with who knows what hacks 09:01:33 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:04:51 that's the joy of Lisp customization 09:06:25 -!- moemoeo [~user@h-73-200.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:06:32 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:08:00 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:15 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:12:10 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:12:37 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:13:12 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:13:18 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hgtmwcqmrvqpmkvo] has joined #lisp 09:13:43 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:39 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 09:17:20 pavelludiq [c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.141.47.130] has joined #lisp 09:17:39 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:17:43 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:18:14 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:21:16 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:19 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 09:23:39 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 09:23:47 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 09:28:09 hm, what was the URL to the discussion of paul graham's style in on lisp? I can't find it again 09:28:09 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:17 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:28:25 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 09:29:16 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 09:31:40 -!- Farzad [~root@46.225.97.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:32:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-204.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:37:19 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:00 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:38:10 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:39:22 C-Keen: wrt ANSI Common Lisp, there's http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/graham-notes.html 09:39:29 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 09:39:42 chr`: ah thanks, that's what I was looking for! 09:40:10 chr`: wrong book correct comments, thanks 09:46:18 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128121047.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 09:50:07 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-201-25.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:55 cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 09:52:43 -!- fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:12 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:36 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.112.71.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:38 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:56:37 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AAA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:56:43 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 09:59:08 -!- jakky [jakk@razor.sharp.penisbird.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:00:35 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:44 jakky [jakk@razor.sharp.penisbird.com] has joined #lisp 10:02:56 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 10:10:39 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AAA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:14:43 -!- pavelludiq [c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.141.47.130] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:15:52 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 10:17:10 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:17:25 fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has joined #lisp 10:20:22 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:30 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:16 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:22 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:31:48 -!- snowbeard [~user@c-71-198-213-68.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:31:49 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:32:07 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:34 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:44 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 10:44:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:46:58 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:03 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:49:30 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:51:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:52:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:53:54 -!- segfault_ [segfault@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-vilspdoxlrkmrfny] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:49 segfault_ [segfault@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-vjdnjjvwjbwwuxbs] has joined #lisp 10:57:42 ThunderJap [~ThunderJa@unaffiliated/thunderjap] has joined #lisp 10:58:43 -!- ThunderJap [~ThunderJa@unaffiliated/thunderjap] has left #lisp 11:00:34 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:56 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.126] has joined #lisp 11:03:13 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-255-50.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:09:45 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.116.154.214] has joined #lisp 11:10:35 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:10:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:13 ka2be [~ka2be@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:11:38 *Xach* feels the excitement 11:13:49 Xach: congratulations! 11:14:35 Shouldn't that be added to the slime startup messages? (or is it...) 11:14:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vqzwjwykknetpqpo] has left #lisp 11:21:51 -!- fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:57 fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has joined #lisp 11:25:27 *splittist* decides not to install cl-emacs-if 11:27:15 maxm- will be heartbroken 11:28:23 is cl-emacs-if the same thing as franz' if, with an implicit progn in the else clause? 11:29:13 -!- springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:29:20 yes 11:29:29 also includes an emacs-style while 11:29:52 while i can agree to the while, the changed if is just a bad idea 11:30:38 *H4ns* decides not to install it, too. 11:31:45 I saw my first project that uses a lambda glyph instead of lambda 11:31:59 It may be cute for small examples but I found it unreadable 11:32:46 sellout: did you delete your comment? i can't find it on lj 11:32:48 right. changing fundamental language operators is doing nobody a favor. but it is a mistake that everybody seems to need to make themselves. 11:42:45 -!- Guest75069 [~root@li129-64.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 11:43:16 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:43:56 -!- nicdev_ [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:17 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:46:25 unwind-protect would be a better one to tart up, anyway. 11:47:32 Harag [~phil@wbs-196-2-106-73.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:47:38 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.116.154.214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:10 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:34 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:48:49 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:51:27 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52:06 -!- Beetny 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[~arne@54.80-203-170.nextgentel.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:53 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:53 -!- Munksgaard [~philipm@tyr.diku.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:53 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:53 -!- kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:20:54 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:08 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:22:24 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:49 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:23:38 *maxm-* is heartbroken 12:23:47 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 pnq [~nick@AC81322E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xebvpvrrxmjekxco] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 dubellz [~tdubellz@freenode/staff/tdubellz] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 peccu1 [~peccu@ZU206142.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 arnsholt [~arne@54.80-203-170.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 Munksgaard [~philipm@tyr.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:25 but may I pointout, that cl-emacs-if is super-configurable. You can include the while, but not if, by utilizing (:shadowing-import-from) feature of the defpackage 12:24:59 -!- pnq is now known as Guest18492 12:25:25 and say what you will, visually I find 2-clause cond with single form in 1st condition, less clear then emacs style if 12:25:31 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:27:19 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:28:17 maxm-: there a lots of things in common lisp that i find ugly 12:28:38 maxm-: but the number of things that i like is much greater 12:29:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.72.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:45 H4ns: whats wrong with fixing ugly things in a minimalistic way? I disagree with the if* type extensions that include :then and :else keyword, but it seems emacs style if extension follows "do no harm" to the letter. If you don't use extra clauses, it looks exactly like what it replaces 12:30:21 -!- dubellz [~tdubellz@freenode/staff/tdubellz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:24 -!- inaimathi [4c42a896@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.168.150] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:31:43 maxm-: I didn't mean to break your heart (: And I hope I haven't discouraged you from contributing further! 12:32:32 maxm-: with cl:if, i know that there will be exactly two forms to follow, then and else, and they will be on the same indentation level 12:32:39 splittist: too late, I already rm -rf'ed all my stuff, and about to install haskell 12:33:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:33:11 maxm-: with multi-clause else, it makes sense to have different indentation for the then clause and the else clauses. this is a fundamental structural change. 12:33:43 maxm- Not a bad idea, maybe I try this too. 12:34:18 H4ns: I have no problem using it in my application level code.. Not sure if anyone noticed or no, but when releasing libraries, I actually use only standard CL and as little dependencies as possible 12:34:26 maxm-: even though i sympathize with your perception of ugliness and your desire to beautify your environment, i think that changing fundamental language operators does no good in the long run. for one, your taste may change. for another, your next cl-savvy programmer will have trouble reading your code. 12:35:16 Also, due to Emacs, the multi-else if is very easily recognizable to any CL programmer. 12:36:16 H4ns: heh then this snippet is sure to give you heart attack http://i.imgur.com/606W9.png 12:36:55 maxm-: I think that if I was to use c-e-i, I would call it something like EIF, just as I wouldn't use one of the absurd all-singing all-dancing BIND operators with the name LET. 12:38:18 -!- Guest18492 [~nick@AC81322E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:38:35 maxm-: i just sense that i would probably have made my qt interface different. 12:42:12 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 12:48:14 maxm-: so that's "color.isValid" instead of "#_isValid color"? 12:48:31 yea 12:48:47 in this example the standard syntax would not have been too ugly 12:49:15 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has joined #lisp 12:49:52 but something like (+ (scene.view.transform.dx) 100) looks much better then (+ (#_dx (#_transform (#_view scene))) 100) 12:50:59 in fact even worth, coz transform staff returns point so add (#_x (#_d1 )) in there 12:51:36 maxm-: without asking you to rewrite it, how would you write https://github.com/splittist/qt-tutorial-app/blob/master/application.lisp ? 12:51:43 with standard syntax and doing a lot of scaling, rotating and zooming around code, it would have been completely un-readable 12:53:26 splittist: it would look exactly the same, except #_ replaced by dot syntax. That example does not have much uglyness, ie only 2 levels in (#_new QMessageBox (#_QMessageBox::Warning) 12:53:49 mine would have looked like (new QMessageBox (QMessageBox.Warning)) 12:53:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:54:18 maxm-: OK. It is a super-simple example, true. Any other tips on structure/layout? 12:55:27 splittist: not really, I done my own qt-mvc framework which I may split out of my project.. It makes dialogs connected to CLOS class models, in a kind of cl-who like syntax 12:55:54 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:56:15 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:57:01 and handles the standard GUI metaphors such as "edit the model" does deep copy of the model, then as the view edits it, underlaying model changes at the same time, and Cancel in the view restores the original state 12:57:45 it also makes validators out of CLOS :type, so a slot (blah :type (integer 0 20)) automatically gets a QIntValidator 0 20 12:58:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 12:59:24 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:59:29 sounds complicated, but it reduces writing a dialog to edit an arbitrary CLOS instance to 10 lines of code, with all the MVC functionality (Apply/Cancel) or direct edit (changes model as you change controls) built-in 13:00:20 the CLOS instance copier is actually released as part of cl-maxlib on my github 13:01:49 *maxm-* waits for inevitable H4ns "there he goes again" comment, since I got carried away talking about his awesome stuff :-) 13:04:11 splittist: actually in your example, you know you can connect slot to a lambda? You don't have to have a receiver object 13:04:28 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:18 splittist: So really instead of :slots (newFile) etc, which is extra level of indirection, I would have turned (create-action) into a macro, and made it accept a body, that it would have expanded into a lambda, and used that is argument to (#_connect) 13:07:27 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:07:52 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:07:52 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 13:07:52 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:11:06 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:28 maxm-: but don't I re-use actions in menus and tool-bars? (It's a while since I looked at the code.) 13:11:40 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:12:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:12:23 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has joined #lisp 13:12:35 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:18 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 13:17:25 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 13:19:12 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:17 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:56 splittist: ah I guess if you need to use it from multiple places you need a slot 13:20:31 splittist: other then that there is really nothing that springs to mind about that code, it seems pretty good as is 13:22:02 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 13:22:11 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:22:54 splittist: to me I pretty much live inside QGraphicsView/QGraphicsScene (my app is charting app), so its kind of a different world then regular Qt API, with a lot of scaling/zooming, QTransforms everywhere etc 13:24:37 uwjweq [~jeyisu@HSI-KBW-046-005-177-112.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:56 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.62.22] has joined #lisp 13:25:12 Hello. What is the difference between (something 'test) and (something "test")? 13:26:07 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:26:26 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:27:58 'test is a symbol test, "test" is a string.. Symbol is different from string is that its unique, and every time you use 'test you get the same one 13:28:34 -!- ka2be [~ka2be@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28:52 maxm: I suppose a Symbol is not supposed to have whitespaces. 13:29:00 With the default configuration 'test is a list containing two symbols: CL:QUOTE and TEST. 13:29:14 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 13:29:14 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 13:29:18 TEST is a symbol named "TEST". "test" is a string different from the symbol name "TEST". 13:29:29 uwjweq: technically you can create symbol with arbitrary name, there isa special syntax for that, but all standard CL symbols are alphanumeric 13:29:35 uwjweq: a symbol can have any character in its name. 13:29:48 |A SYMBOL WITH SPACES AND SPECIAL CARACTERS!| 13:30:06 pjb: Nice, I try that. 13:30:08 |A SYMBOL WITH A PIPE: \|| 13:30:17 a\ symbol\ with\ 13:30:26 a\ pipe\:\ \| 13:30:47 |a-symbol-with-lower-case-letters| 13:31:19 uwjweq: sometimes, symbols are used as string designators. (string= 'test "TEST") --> T 13:31:37 (string= 'test "test") --> NIL 13:32:31 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 13:32:44 Pipes did not work, but \ did. 13:33:06 Thank you. You realy jumped to it. Never had this in any other channel. 13:33:56 Easy questions answered easily 13:36:59 pjb has pipes on his mind 13:39:15 all is missing is stassats finding that something in above explanation was redundant or could have been made shorter 13:39:25 r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #lisp 13:39:49 pjb n'est pas une pipe 13:40:12 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:04 http://reason.com/assets/mc/psuderman/2011_09/series_of_tubes.jpg 13:42:39 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:52 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 13:47:02 ka2be [~ka2be@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:48:21 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:49:27 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:44 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:51:32 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:52:33 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:53:31 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 13:54:37 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 13:56:57 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:57:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:59:12 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:05 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.58.205] has joined #lisp 14:01:10 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:29 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host81.201-253-131.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:02:27 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:02:31 (symbol-name '|A SYMBOL WITH A PIPE: \||) => "A SYMBOL WITH A PIPE: |" 14:02:42 Works perfectly well. 14:02:43 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:03:32 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 14:07:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:07:15 w00t, my first homemade let over lambda /o/ 14:07:42 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:07:54 Ttm: for what it's worth, nobody calls it that except Doug Hoyte. 14:08:06 Well, you can be #2 14:09:07 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:09:11 I'm reading his book, so that must be why 14:12:05 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:12:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:13:06 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:19 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:45 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:15:58 dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:03 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has left #lisp 14:16:50 dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:18:30 *maxm-* urges Europeans here to work harder, or I'm on a road to the poorhouse again 14:20:41 ?? 14:22:15 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:22:38 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:22:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:23:45 maxm-: European outside EU here, but I'm doing CSS right now, which is a black hole for productivity. 14:27:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:28:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:28:24 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ywgieqorbruwvmvy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:29:41 fe[nl]ix: my lame attempt at humor re: bottom falls out from the market because of bad EU GDP number 14:32:21 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:33:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:34:41 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 14:35:14 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:36 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:36:45 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:30 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 14:37:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:38:33 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:37 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:40:39 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.241.224] has joined #lisp 14:40:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:17 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:37 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:44:39 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:50 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.241.224] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45:53 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:18 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:23 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.115.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:34 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@pC19F6B5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 14:48:41 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:48:42 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-255-50.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:50:57 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 14:51:29 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:53:43 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:55:21 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 14:56:25 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:57:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:58:11 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:58:57 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:01:11 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:05 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:58 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:05:46 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:08:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:00 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:09:44 cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has joined #lisp 15:09:56 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:13:13 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:13:14 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 15:14:20 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:15:58 (format nil "~,3F" (ignore-errors (/ 0 0))) this gives "NIL" as expected but I would like that wheenver it's nil (so there is an error) the output would not be NIL but 0.000 15:16:22 francogrex: OR is one option 15:16:49 (format nil "~:[0.000~;~:*~,3F~]" (ignore-errors (/ 0 0))) => "0.000" 15:16:55 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-69-243.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:17:00 francogrex: ignore-errors should be avoided 15:17:13 francogrex: it breaks *break-on-signals* 15:17:19 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:18:44 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:37 ok, the ignore-errors was just a test. pjb ok, I will go with "or" however seems easier but I will note down your format for my knowledge 15:19:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:21:49 I will pad this 00.000 just to keep the columns aligned 15:22:16 so that 14.645 and 00.000 fit is that acceptable? 15:22:57 (format nil "~:[0.000~;~,3F~]" (ignore-errors (/ 0 0))) 15:23:16 that is madness 15:23:21 pjb: So much faster. 15:23:48 (format nil "~,3F" (if (zerop b) 0 (/ a b))) 15:24:41 H4ns: I'm building a rep here: https://plus.google.com/114198572364830184739/posts/MUNgYrHxdBU 15:24:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:47 Well, if padding and so on is wanted, indeed OR would be better: 15:24:51 (format nil "~10,3F" (or (ignore-errors (/ 0 0)) 0)) => " 0.000" 15:24:57 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:25:25 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:02 v0yager [~v0yager@bordm.com] has joined #lisp 15:26:36 (format nil "~10,3F" (or (ignore-errors (/ 0 0)) "ERROR")) => " ERROR" 15:27:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:48 *splittist* notices further quicklisp fundraising opportunities: "nice library you got there; wouldn't want it to be inadvertently omitted from the next update, would you..." 15:31:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:32:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:33:19 haha 15:33:40 thats somewhat my reason for avoiding ql 15:34:04 A solid plan 15:34:07 I don't follow. 15:34:35 centralized distribution and a creepy client 15:35:11 The intent is for others to distribute if they like. I need to document how it's done. 15:35:23 .. says he who reads and understands the source code of all software that he runs... 15:35:34 Anyone who can put files on the web could provide software that Quicklisp could load. 15:35:45 wakeup: "creepy" ? 15:36:32 apt, now *that*'s creepy. They're obviously trying to put a positive spin on their software, by implying that all the other package managers are inapt. 15:36:54 fe[nl]ix: install by curl | sh, suddenly a directory in my $HOME 15:37:12 pkhuong: hahaha 15:38:04 What has Debian got to hide? One can't help but be alarmed. 15:38:43 debian users would tell you that other packagemanagers are indeed inapt 15:39:28 Xach: I'd appreciate documentation on how to use QL autonomous 15:39:47 wakeup: I'm writing bit by bit every day. 15:39:52 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:39:58 but seriosly, what apt hides is that horribly inapt userinterface that apt replaces. (forgot the name) 15:40:15 dpkg 15:40:17 Xach: also, is it possible to just install/load QL as a ASDF system? maybe document how to setup QL without autoscripts 15:40:48 wakeup: No, it isn't. 15:40:59 wakeup: you could simply download that file and read it. But no, let's go with "creepy". 15:41:18 wakeup: Maybe someday! 15:41:20 bit by bit every day? hmm, that gives 45 bytes a year, this' gonna take a while 15:41:30 *eMBee* coudn't resit, ducks and runs 15:41:34 Xach: that's definitely a requirement for me 15:41:36 resist 15:42:24 pkhuong: I just explained why I don't want to use it (because I don't want to read the shell script). No offense intended 15:42:35 wakeup: It is not a shell script. 15:43:01 nicdev_ [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 15:43:16 wakeup: have fun not using quicklisp! 15:43:21 Xach: my bad 15:43:43 H4ns: I am. Why is it such a profanity? 15:43:54 -!- fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:44:52 wakeup: some of us have a hard time with public irrationality; it might infect others. 15:46:10 wakeup: i can't understand your reasoning. but you must have reasons, so have fun. i'd appreciate if you would not inflict it on the rest of us, though. i think quicklisp can be improved in many ways, but making it into an asdf system does not seem to be of any relevant importance to me. 15:46:35 pkhuong: I'd say you're just trolling for reasons of pack-dynamics. 15:46:41 curl | sh is creepy. wget, then read the file isn't an option. That might leave wget; sh, I suppose. 15:47:07 Enerccio [~enerccio@158.194.169.130] has joined #lisp 15:47:12 H4ns: what am I inflicting on others? 15:47:14 I was wondering if someone was trolling, but pkhuong isn't on the list of suspects 15:47:22 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120228210006]] 15:47:34 hmm, cond cant have function call in the predicate? 15:47:46 Enerccio: yes it can. Mind your parentheses. 15:47:51 wakeup: you are asking xach to change quicklisp so that it suits your requirements. 15:47:58 we could change the subject to something more pleasant and less controversial like default character encodings! 15:48:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:48:01 yeah! 15:48:02 *slyrus* ducks 15:48:05 oh no... 15:48:08 slyrus: you pinged last night? 15:48:13 slyrus: line endings is the new cool of discussion topics 15:48:39 pkhuong: I get badly formed lambda error 15:48:40 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/561924/ 15:48:51 on (cond (((function sign) 15:49:15 Enerccio: that is not a function call 15:49:18 Xach: yeah. when I recall why, I'll let you know :) 15:49:19 Enerccio: read a tutorial. 15:49:20 H4ns: whats wrong with that? No pressure on anyone. 15:49:23 ah right 15:49:25 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:49:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:49:35 the thing is 15:49:37 I had if there before 15:49:41 and it didnt work the same way 15:49:58 Enerccio: what function do you want to call as the predicate? 15:50:27 either > or < 15:50:55 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@bordm.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:03 So you could use (cond ((< x 42) ...) ...) 15:51:11 Enerccio: See funcall 15:51:24 wakeup: "creepy: adj. causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease". That's what's wrong with that. A stranger asking your name, age, gender and address on IRC is creepy. I don't see how QL qualifies. 15:52:47 Using Quicklisp does involve an element of trust. I have no problem with someone not wishing to extend that trust and not using Quicklisp. I hope to add more ways to trust Quicklisp, but there will always be some trust involved. 15:53:52 pkhuong: creepy in terms of software does include creating directories in my ~/ without asking and an install process thats basically a script for me. I might install a game like that but for a software distribution facility I'd expect a more sensible approach. 15:54:04 -!- snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:35 pkhuong: that's not to say that package managers couldn't give one a feeling of fear or unease. I was never really comfortable with asdf-install. Any potential unpleasantness with QLs engineering is offset by my trust in Xach. 15:54:35 If you do not read the program or the documentation, you are bound to have a life full of unpleasant surprises. 15:54:55 Enerccio: Well, I mean, go read a Common Lisp tutorial, not a Scheme tutorial. 15:55:02 OTOH, there are much better ways to abuse the trust than in the installer. There's a lot more code to review in, e.g. cl-ppcre. 15:55:08 Xach: I appreciate that position on the topic. 15:56:01 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:59 slyrus: right, but I believe that "reckless" would be a better-fitting adjective for asdf-install ;) 15:57:00 This is the Internet. If you assert a view, you may be challenged at any point. 15:57:24 yakov_ [~yakov@ip-83-149-2-246.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 15:57:33 dlowe: oh, yeah? 15:57:37 pkhuong: feckless, even :) 15:57:43 pkhuong: but it verifies the pgp signature of the distribution against the common-lisp.net key ring!1elf 15:57:49 splittist: :D 15:58:52 pgp in asdf-install did indeed not really function, but I liked it's decentralized approach. Getting the software directly from the authors is the way to go imho! 15:59:25 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:59:38 wakeup: there's a real tradeoff there. if there are a lot of separate things to gather, the chances are increased that at a particular point in time one of them will be unavailable or incompatible. 15:59:40 just drop the centralized keyring and use a ssh like confirmation on first trusting a key, voila! 16:00:17 spatial-trees, for example, has been gone for something like a year 16:00:19 wakeup: i like the centralized approach that quicklisp takes. if you don't, you are free to come up with something decentralized. 16:00:22 and it is needed for clim 16:00:31 M.C. Clim that is 16:00:34 H4ns: dude please chill 16:00:48 wakeup: "dude" 16:00:56 H4ns: yes why not 16:01:02 wakeup: please bear more respect to the elders 16:01:07 H4ns: too controversial? 16:01:30 just because someone is old doesn't mean they deserve respect 16:01:46 -!- C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has left #lisp 16:01:46 well, old and chanop 16:01:47 *H4ns* is not old 16:01:50 :) 16:01:53 *H4ns* is not a chanop 16:03:04 just because somebody has an opinion does not mean everybody in the channel should know about it 16:04:56 jdz: it is kind of a public channel 16:05:14 and I believe that is a good thing 16:06:17 if you want a channel without me expressing "controversial" opinions from time to time go to #lispelders and password protect it or something 16:07:31 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:08:09 "and the government of incompetent robot elders" 16:08:12 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 16:09:09 I mean it's not like I flamed, or trolled, or disrespected anything. I didn't even said QL is bad, I merely expressed what I don't like about it. If thats too much for people then I think those people have dangerously closed mind 16:09:20 +s 16:09:28 the problem with virtual communication channels is that it's not possible to punch people in the face, so some people think they can do whatever they please... 16:09:47 why do you want to punch me in the face? 16:09:52 i did not say that 16:10:03 then whats the problem? 16:10:13 some people 16:10:36 my computer is full of software creating directories in my home folder 16:10:43 i don't see anything creepy about it 16:10:49 don't know about those 16:10:59 preference I guess 16:11:06 mine isn't 16:11:10 Xach: you see? should have named the folder .quicklisp :) 16:11:14 anyway stop talking about this rubbish 16:11:16 wakeup: try 'ls -a ~' for a change 16:11:33 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0E5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:55 wakeup: you may express your opinion, and others get to dissent. 16:11:57 jdz: point taken. 16:12:58 you know you old when even the "elders" on a channel call directories folders :-) 16:13:14 :D 16:13:17 its a habit 16:13:46 maxm-: i use the terms interchangeably, for what it's worth 16:13:51 urandom__ [~user@p548A45A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:02 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Quit: dekuked] 16:15:07 -!- blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:15:19 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:23:29 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:25:07 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:34 drwho [~drwho@78-7.trans.uaf.edu] has joined #lisp 16:26:24 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:00 -!- drwho [~drwho@78-7.trans.uaf.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:57 -!- nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 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[~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:15 what's the way to list all the symbols that have been introduced by a program (like a loaded fasl) only those? 17:10:50 (do-symbols (s) ... lists all the symbols and I cannnot differntiate 17:11:24 francogrex: save the previous list of symbols, load, compare 17:12:33 ok; each time I want to load the program with diferent parameters in the same session, does it make sense to unintern all the symbols before running the program again? 17:13:17 or they will be overwritten anyway 17:13:22 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:13:22 dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xebvpvrrxmjekxco] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:00 francogrex: if you define them with defparameter they will take new values 17:14:00 why are you worried about the symbols? why do you re-load the software for every run? why don't you load the software into a package that you can conveniently delete? 17:15:03 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 17:15:03 all with defparameter (no defvar used). true, I can load into a package I didn't think of that is better 17:16:44 how can I convert float to integer? 17:17:13 (integer ...) doesnt seems to work 17:17:20 while (float ...) works... 17:17:26 Enerccio: FLOOR, FFLOOR, CEILING, FCEILING, TRUNCATE, FTRUNCATE, ROUND, FROUND 17:18:14 because there are different ways of converting a float to int 17:19:01 ah I see 17:19:15 hmm, is there nth variant that only returns the first portion? 17:19:26 not the whole list from that point 17:19:28 RaceCondition [~erik@m83-176-25-52.cust.tele2.ee] has joined #lisp 17:19:42 whole list? 17:19:52 Enerccio: you mean like NTH? 17:20:31 hmm wait then the problem is somewhere else... 17:21:12 I think he wants (car (nthcdr ...)) 17:21:47 so many possibilities 17:22:00 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.62.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:27:59 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:28:19 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:28:33 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@m83-176-25-52.cust.tele2.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 17:29:32 Enerccio: pastebin your problem? 17:30:00 or rather pastelisp 17:30:43 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@ip-83-149-2-246.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:32:03 optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has joined #lisp 17:32:12 toronto lisp meetup tonight right? :O 17:32:39 Wooo! 17:32:45 Fade will be there! Well, probably not. 17:32:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:34:49 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:36:20 Skola_ [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:37:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:37:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.174.95] has joined #lisp 17:37:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.174.95] has quit [Changing host] 17:37:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:37:51 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has joined #lisp 17:38:22 I'm brining two lisp books, almost three heh 17:38:28 bringing* 17:38:40 :) 17:38:41 Almost three? 17:38:47 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:39:31 (defpackage new (:use :plain-odbc :cl :cl-user :cffi)) do I have to specify both cl and cl-user? 17:39:52 I never include cl-user in my own packages. 17:39:53 francogrex: You should never :use :cl-user 17:40:24 ah, that's because in sbclrc I had added some functions that I use currently for every session 17:40:25 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399162.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 Xach: yeah I left one book at someone's house, too lazy to pick it up heh 17:40:53 Not a great idea to enshrine in some library or application. 17:40:55 it's just Land of Lisp, nothing fnacy :po 17:41:29 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-317778.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:43 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.47.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:09 maybe I can import-from only those I need at least? 17:42:47 francogrex, could you put those functions in another file and then use that file? 17:42:51 s/file/package 17:43:31 I guess I can 17:43:40 francogrex: if you're putting some utility in cl-user from your rc file, you should give it a system and put it on your asdf path. 17:44:10 I put a bunch of utilities in my .sbclrc but they are for repl use only, not for putting in projects. 17:44:18 Anything I want to put in a project goes into a system. 17:44:40 huangho [~huangho@177.29.78.138] has joined #lisp 17:45:33 ok. those in .sbclrc I even forget about them, sometimes I tend to think they are part of the standard... 17:45:42 Phooodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:43 -!- huangho [~huangho@177.29.78.138] has quit [Client Quit] 17:45:45 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:10 What is an example? 17:46:23 sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.116] has joined #lisp 17:46:40 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:46:49 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hgtmwcqmrvqpmkvo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:47:26 like the function to tokenize a string according to delimiters... 17:48:09 I use it so often that I added it to sbclrc but asdfing it is the thing to do 17:48:18 split-sequence? 17:48:28 (cl-ppcre:split ",+" "blah,crap,blah") 17:48:28 ("blah" "crap" "blah") 17:48:55 another fine option 17:49:16 is there a way to add to the list if there is no such element in the list? 17:49:28 I think there was a way to do it without explicitedly checking member 17:49:32 push-new 17:49:41 no - 17:49:43 daimrod - thanks! 17:49:48 pushnew is the name 17:50:07 wow, I actually did not knew about pushnew 17:50:15 maxm-: how about adjoin? 17:50:18 probably have 100 places where I do (unless (member)) 17:50:43 also had no idea 17:50:54 I won't even ask about nreconc then 17:52:21 read the hyperspec! 17:52:46 nah screw hyperspec.. I doubt many ppl knew about it, coz I would have seen it reading code 17:53:13 I found reading the hyperspec pretty revelatory. 17:53:26 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-010-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:42 maxm-: reading code is good, knowing the spec is good 17:53:44 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:54:46 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:54:54 heh out of all installed systems, only iterate and contextl have '(adjoin ' 17:54:55 sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 17:55:20 pushnew is actually used a lot in pushing to *features*, I probably seen it 1000 times, but yet forgot about it somehow 17:55:41 not everybody uses sets 17:56:31 donno hyperspec is kind of too dry for me, I actually learned lisp by reading clct2 and reading code 17:56:45 nreconc doesn't seem to come up too often either:) I remember the one time I saw it ussed fondly! 17:57:13 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:39 I wouldn't trust anyone who purposefully avoids the hyperspec. 17:58:04 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:58:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:58:18 austinh: I don't avoid it, ie if I need something clarified or looked up I look at it, but it never appeared to me to actually read it from cover to cover 17:58:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:58:57 mental indexing is very useful 17:59:37 just for the sake of understanding better defpackage (I know the example is not appropriate): (defpackage new ((:use :plain-odbc :cl :cffi) (:import-from :cl-user :tokenize))) wouldn't work, why? 18:00:31 is there a way to give dolist a return value upon finishing the whole list? 18:00:33 well, what happens when that package is loaded by a lisp that hasn't been initialised by your rc file? 18:00:43 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.93.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:02 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:01:05 lemoinem [~swoog@211-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:16 the correct thing to do is put that utility into its own package. 18:01:30 system, rather 18:01:31 Enerccio: not that i know of. you can do it with loop though. 18:01:44 hmm 18:01:49 nvm there is 18:01:50 Fade: yes I know you guys have advised on that but the issue here is different 18:01:51 Enerccio: it takes an optional result formhttp://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_dolist.htm 18:02:14 should've checked the hyperspec first, assumed it wasn't there as the question was asked 18:02:19 just for the sake of testing, it is givving an error as bogus options 18:02:26 galiley [~user@46-47-94-53.sf.ddns.bulsat.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:33 I don't know what to tell you. that defpackage looks damn weird. 18:02:44 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:02:58 hey, what sort of license is the hyper spec under? I mean could I host a version of it (the exact same, no modifications) with just cosmetic change? 18:03:16 claint [~user@78.188.204.182] has joined #lisp 18:04:03 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 18:04:25 dekuked: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Help.htm#Legal 18:05:50 oGMo: ping 18:05:59 fe[nl]ix: i'm here 18:06:50 weird: bogus DEFPACKAGE option: ((:USE :CL)) did I break my lisp? 18:07:38 francogrex: options don't go in a list 18:08:08 right 18:10:04 -!- claint [~user@78.188.204.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:09 *Fade* hatches a plot to get out of the office early enough to hit up the toronto lisp meetup 18:10:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12:51 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:12:57 oGMo: I think I fixed static-vectors. please pull and run the tests: (asdf:oos 'asdf:test-op :static-vectors) 18:13:32 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:14:55 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:59 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:49 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:58 fe[nl]ix: heh, one of the tests fail, but it appears fixed 18:18:08 "fails" 18:18:09 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.120.17] has joined #lisp 18:18:13 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.120.17] has quit [Client Quit] 18:19:44 fe[nl]ix: much thanks, this is extremely helpful .. image handling to/from foreign space will be very efficient now :) 18:20:00 Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-157-230.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 18:22:05 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 18:22:10 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:22:25 So I'm struggle to remember a function that always returns no values... 18:22:30 struggling* 18:22:34 (values) 18:22:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:22:41 ;) 18:22:44 VALUES doesn't always return no values. 18:23:27 (That's a function call, not function.) 18:23:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:23:52 for any given input, true 18:24:08 for what purpose? 18:24:23 You'll see about as soon as I get my answer. 18:25:03 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:16 (defun my-function-that-returns-no-values (&rest junk) (declare (ignore junk)) (values)) 18:25:34 dlowe: A standard one would be better. 18:25:39 even better: (lambda (&rest junk) (declare (ignore junk)) (values)) 18:25:48 It's for illustration purposes. 18:25:54 that's why i was wondering about purpose; presumably if you want a function you can define it 18:26:07 my-picturesque-function-that-returns-no-values? 18:26:36 oGMo: which test ? 18:26:39 paste please 18:27:12 Hexstream: does it have to return no values according to the standard, or just in a given implementation? 18:27:13 One of my projects this year is making a symbolic database that would make answering that kind of question a snap. :) 18:27:21 df_: According to standard. 18:27:46 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:28:07 fe[nl]ix: er, sorry, i misread the output; the tests pass, i'm just seeing compiler notes about :initial-element/:initial-contents 18:29:51 I grepped the CLHS after all. o_o PPRINT will do. 18:31:02 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.120.17] has joined #lisp 18:31:47 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:32:49 will do what? 18:33:01 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:33:08 can someone show me/point me to an s-sql example of an WHERE .. IN clause with the set coming from a lisp variable? 18:33:42 https://bugs.launchpad.net/slime/+bug/948265 18:33:47 kai_ [~kai@e179024115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:05 anyone remember that parser that take lisp code and converts it to python code 18:34:09 ? 18:34:13 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@211-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:15 I forgot it 18:34:18 (Feature request: return values hinting in slime.) 18:34:18 H4ns: (query (:select foo where (:in 'x (:set *variable*)))) 18:34:20 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 18:34:21 me and my bad memory 18:34:29 s/where/:where/ 18:34:35 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.83.191] has joined #lisp 18:34:41 stassats: thanks! 18:36:33 ignore question, found it , adder 18:37:14 Hexstream: how would you come implementing it? 18:37:48 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has left #lisp 18:38:07 lispmeister [~fix@200.91.185.62] has joined #lisp 18:38:21 stassats: If I make you a nice machine-readable list of return value hints, will you integrate this functionality in Slime? 18:38:25 -!- Skola_ is now known as Skola 18:38:43 what you're describing isn't exactly usable, i would like (multiple-value-bind ([]) (get-decoded-time)) where it would display at what value the cursor is currently 18:38:52 ([] is the cursor) 18:39:14 Hexstream: i don't want it to be limited to the CL package 18:39:14 stassats: Right. That would be Step II. 18:39:51 I think it's a bit harder to implement in general than just for the CL package. But the CL package would already be a big start. 18:40:22 "If we think big enough, we don't have to do anything!" as Xach would say. 18:40:39 i don't know, the only functions which i would be interested in seeing a thing like that is get-decoded-time and decode-universal-time 18:41:18 I think it would be really great for newbies. And some features seem little-known, like the second return value of GETHASH for example. 18:41:23 i'd be happy if i could have a separate window that had the slime-describe-function for whatever would normally be displayed in the minibuffer 18:41:31 who cares about newbies 18:41:41 Not you, apparently. 18:42:03 i don't care about anyone but myself, and i'm not a newbie, so, that's accurate 18:42:06 Also, if something returns an implementation-defined value, it's good to know that you're making your code unportable if your implementation returns some useful value. 18:43:09 It's a wonder why you're the maintainer of Slime. ;P 18:43:22 daem0n [~yaargh@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:22 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:43:22 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 18:44:01 Apparently you're too busy stroking your ego to implement this useful feature. 18:44:07 i'm not a maintainer, i'm a committer, and i fix bugs which annoy me 18:44:13 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 18:44:47 https://launchpad.net/slime says: "Maintainer: Stas Boukarev". You are a maintainer. 18:45:21 stassats: bend over! 18:45:28 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:45:29 i maintain the launchpad page 18:46:24 you can't believe everything you read on the Internet 18:46:59 in particular, what some random launchpad page says is obviously much more believable than what someone tells you live on IRC 18:47:32 Helmut Eller is the maintainer, and he has the last word 18:47:46 Kryztof: It's irrelevant anyway, a commit bit is sufficient. 18:48:12 stassats: What, you're telling me he'll reject that feature? On what grounds?? 18:48:28 If that's the case, Something's Broken in this Kingdom. 18:48:47 Hexstream: can you please add more question marks? you could also use capital letters liberally to make your cause more important! 18:48:56 *Hexstream* gets crazy thoughts of forking Slime. 18:48:59 it's not sufficient, the proposed commit should interest me as well 18:49:00 instead of all this noise, you could write the feature and contribute it, and if it's not accepted, post it as a separate addon 18:49:47 Hexstream: he has the last word in accepting and rejecting it 18:49:58 oGMo: Sounds like a plan. 18:50:18 I seriously expected this to be a non-issue. Expectations rectified. 18:50:26 Hexstream: so why aren't you bothering me about it? I have a slime commit bit too! 18:51:04 I should also be in line for people telling me how I should spend my spare time, or even my lack of it. 18:51:06 Kryztof: Of course you'd rather sit back and enjoy the show than telling me that sooner. ;P 18:52:07 who doesn't have the slime commit bit, those things are dime a dozen 18:52:18 I'm so glad that my volunteering to do work for the greater glory of Lisp is lost in the mists of antiquity 18:52:50 means that when I actually have no spare time, I don't have people queueing up to give me work 18:53:08 you're an open source fairy! 18:53:29 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:53:29 DCVS means always having the commit bit 18:53:39 fortunately, slime has resisted the modern age 18:53:59 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 18:54:07 that doesn't stop me from using a git mirror 18:55:06 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 18:55:17 Hexstream: just make a contrib. 18:55:21 to slime. 18:55:42 pjb: Right, seems that I'm on my own. For a change. 18:56:17 -!- kai_ [~kai@e179024115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:56:53 if i knew how to properly implement this feature, it'd be committed in 15 minutes, but i don't know 18:58:07 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 18:59:18 if you just want return values, in sbcl at least doesn't sb-introspect:function-type return that? or am i misinterpreting the output 18:59:51 type is not useful 19:00:11 stassats: I guess you're considering that having this feature available for *all* functions is an absolute requirement?... 19:00:21 Well, all operators. 19:01:08 i don't need such a feature for CL 19:01:21 I guess I could make a "trivial-hinting" library or something. 19:01:36 A 43rd project can't hurt! 19:01:40 kai_ [~kai@e179017075.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:54 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-69-243.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:03:59 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:59 Hexstream: it's not a round number anymore 19:07:49 Kryztof: spatial-trees seems still to be down. do you know who might best adopt it? 19:08:52 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-157-230.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:09:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-204.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:48 Someone should really write an article about the CL tradition of system construction 19:10:05 I am really sad to see so many projects with .lisp files containing (ql:quickload "my-dep1") (ql:quickload "my-dep2") etc 19:10:20 https://github.com/colinyoung/pappy/blob/master/pappy.lisp is just the latest in a long line 19:10:44 oh dear... 19:10:57 .... ;) 19:11:01 ...ouch 19:11:11 well, a year ago, you'd just see a bunch of (require ...) 19:11:21 yeah 19:11:22 so at least this is more portable. 19:11:22 A year ago they might not even bother 19:11:26 i have (:asd ...), so nobody can use it 19:11:29 *redline6561* sighs 19:11:33 Xach: you advocated github mere days before the github/rails security issue 19:11:40 care to review that recommendation? 19:11:49 they fixed that issue didn't they? 19:12:22 I still have strong confidence in github and will continue to create projects there. 19:13:07 git is decentralized, so if github falls down you can always pack up and leave 19:13:23 The problem isn't falling down, it's stealthy malicious commits 19:13:28 Well, falling down is bad too. 19:13:28 Kryztof: i actually have a copy of spatial-trees already on github; if you want to put the official version there i'd be happy to nuke it 19:13:34 and that security issue created more drama than a real problem 19:14:10 oGMo: or maybe your version can be the official version 19:14:19 it's not like I have time to fix the bugs in it or even do releases 19:14:25 stealthy commits are difficult without access to the tree 19:14:26 Xach: i think i would notice that my tree is not what i have locally 19:14:27 I have the latest darcs repo if that is needed 19:14:30 problem solved! 19:14:49 Kryztof: i wouldn't mind maintaing it, as i make heavy use of it 19:14:50 stassats: I think I would too. I think it is more of a problem on a large project with many committers. 19:14:55 oGMo: seriously? That's great! 19:15:12 I didn't even know that there was a user, since mcclim faded away 19:15:13 Kryztof: sure .. i'd like to make a few things cons less etc 19:15:25 I'd like to fix the X-tree consistency bug 19:15:56 (and I came to the conclusion, I think five years ago so I might have misremembered, that there was an algorithm bug in the R+ tree as described. But now we're on hazy memory) 19:16:03 please do take it over, oGMo 19:16:23 that library is one reason i started a lot of work in CL again actually, i have an unreleased canvas project that it just makes fly 19:16:27 oGMo: do you want a copy of the last darcs or are you good? 19:16:35 Kryztof: sure thanks 19:17:01 oGMo: and what is the repo URL? 19:17:03 Xach: if the darcs repo hasn't been updated recently i might have it, since i built the git repo off a conversion 19:17:19 Xach: https://github.com/rpav/spatial-trees 19:17:34 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:18:31 The last commit I have is Wed Apr 19 06:55:19 EDT 2006 crhodes 19:19:02 yes same on here apparently, "Don't try to compile spatial-tree-viz, as clim might ..." 19:19:03 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:07 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:15 ok, then i will switch to your repo 19:19:23 thanks! 19:19:57 *Xach* crosses a dead source off his list 19:19:57 not a problem! 19:20:01 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 19:20:09 somebody should edit the cliki page 19:21:06 The_third_man [~The_third@178.170.99.117] has joined #lisp 19:21:27 will do 19:23:31 also, Xach: maybe we can pimp quickproject more to get folks creating systems properly. I've made a change or two to improve my workflow, will submit a pull request soon to see if you like it. rough idea: https://gist.github.com/1988394 19:23:52 thank you both 19:23:54 also, added a restart for "this path already exists, nuke it?" 19:24:10 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:44 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-137-28.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:27:06 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:27:57 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:28:08 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:29:14 I was surprised when that started happening 19:29:35 quicklisp as system definer, that is. 19:30:03 people are trying to python their way through 19:31:09 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.123.98] has joined #lisp 19:31:25 french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:30 I really like quickproject, it was an easy way to grasp ASDF until I take the time to read the documentation. 19:31:51 -!- french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:58 quickproject is super useful. 19:32:11 french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:22 *redline6561* will miss defsystem's :pathname option when it dies. #lazy 19:32:34 -!- benny` [~benny@i577A8423.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:32:46 benny` [~benny@i577A2A78.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:52 it has caused a certain bloating in my system definitions since quicklisp; i've developed a tendency to include everything I think i might need right at the beginning. 19:33:01 Hello all 19:34:11 i seem to be the only one that doesn't like quickproject 19:34:12 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:20 dekuked_ [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:30 who can tell me how instal clisp on windows, please 19:34:40 I have to use the hooks to patch it but afterwards it's great. Why type the boilerplate madnificent? 19:34:45 yes, well, you have a well established proclivity for peculiar taste, madnificent 19:34:46 There's a japanese library along the same lines, cl-skeleton or similar. 19:35:15 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-252-116.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:35:25 i had my own thing before quickproject was conceived, so i still use it 19:35:27 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:35:29 redline6561: i like the idea! it just doesn't do what i want exactly. 19:35:40 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35:40 -!- dekuked_ is now known as dekuked 19:36:11 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:36:23 clbuild had something too, didn't it? 19:36:24 *after-make-project-hooks* not cutting it? why so? :) just curious... 19:36:30 madnificent: ^^ 19:36:37 Fade: that was a nice sentence 19:36:50 :) 19:37:01 super simple, http://paste.lisp.org/display/114448 19:37:11 Xach: i seem to remember something along those lines, but that could have been based on cl-skeleton. 19:37:54 As for me, I neither like nor dislike quickproject per se, I don't use it (I just copy/paste the base stuff from another project and make the relevant changes), but I recognize that it's useful to some, especially to get started, so that's nice. 19:38:37 *Xach* has an Idea flash into his brain 19:39:12 Enlighten us! 19:39:29 i guess i just want it to be more extensive. making it easier to specify the license, base version and all that. plus, if it aims to manage the project, it should help me when i create a new file (for instance, it should add a license preamble and make sure it's included). lastly, quickproject doesn't work together nicely with literate programming in org-mode, but that's something nearly no one will be bothered with. 19:39:35 Too raw. 19:39:50 Xach: we're curious animals, we don't mind 19:39:57 *Hexstream* waits for Xach to bake it. 19:40:21 madnificent: the emacs mode called header2 might be up your alley. 19:40:29 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:40:30 Ok, well, it's more a "This could work with existing tools with no modifications" than a "This is a great idea", but. 19:40:32 madnificent: my paste includes a license preamble! 19:40:36 stassats: i've seen that preamble in one of your files, cool to see how it got there! 19:41:13 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:19 madnificent: i could've copy pasted it before i had this make-asd thingy 19:41:56 -!- lispmeister [~fix@200.91.185.62] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 19:41:56 You could have a system-definition/ directory in your project. There could be a file called "required-libraries.txt" with one library per line. There could be a "source-files.txt" with one file name per line. A function in asdf:*system-definition-search-functions* could generate the .asd from that data on the fly. 19:42:07 Of course, it's inadequate for complex systems. 19:42:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:39 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:42 The flash was more "that would fit what i do right now and doesn't require any changes to asdf" 19:42:45 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 19:42:48 *redline6561* sticks to quickproject with a few choice hooks... 19:43:06 there should totally be a graphical UI for quicklisp and quickproject 19:43:07 *Xach* could use a git registration hook 19:43:14 in mcclim! 19:43:19 that would be ++useful 19:43:24 Fade: not sure why i'd love that, but thanks! it's indeed more in the direction i'd want to go in :) 19:43:37 'love' is a strong word 19:43:43 i just said it might be up your alley. 19:43:52 Wearing my project aggregator & distributor's hat, the fact that .asd files are unconstrained common lisp source code is mostly annoying. 19:43:53 RomyRomy [~stickycak@pool-108-14-214-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:53 stickycake [~stickycak@pool-108-14-214-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:04 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@pool-108-14-214-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:06 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@pool-108-14-214-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:09 Xach: and in 3d? 19:44:48 stassats: why not 4? 19:45:05 Xach: shouldn't the idea be that you can load the asd definition and then query the interpreted form of it by lisp expressions? 19:45:54 madnificent: ha ha ha ha 19:46:10 burn 19:46:15 madnificent: the exciting part (to me) of my idea is that it does not require changes to asdf. 19:46:56 Xach: wait, i wasn't commenting on that. i was commenting on your comment on .asd files. or was that what you were replying to? (in that case, burn still stands) 19:47:02 to make git registration hooks, a CL implementation of git should be written first 19:47:06 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.206.116] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:32 madnificent: systems are hard to query. 19:47:45 madnificent: the unconstrained code often creates implied dependencies. 19:47:57 often enough to be a headache, anyway. 19:48:08 i had expected the latter problem to be there, but the former is a surprise to me 19:48:50 It's gotten better, actually. Still not great. 19:50:38 Anyway, I was thinking about that file thing because editing sexps in files is a pain. 19:50:49 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:51:07 even though slime has that handy export thing 19:51:15 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.120.17] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:52:05 that i have not yet used 19:52:51 making it work right wasn't painless 19:54:04 this pappy system makes me sad. this guy has invented an ellaborate load system that's totally wrong. 19:54:26 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 19:54:27 "people are trying to python their way through" is a good way to put it 19:54:47 I think it is a failure of examplary exposition. 19:54:50 that's definitely what it looks like, although judging by his github frontice, he's a ruby dev. 19:55:15 i'm tempted to quickproject the code for him and issue a pull request. 19:55:19 "No... like this." 19:55:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:55:30 Xach: wat? 19:55:45 i have a policy, projects with .asd go to github, with (eval-when () (:asd dependency)) go to gist 19:56:43 Ok, I'm officially on the "return values hints" case. Project stub at: https://github.com/Hexstream/return-values-hints 19:57:42 stassats: policy +1 19:57:46 that's the way to do it 19:58:12 Xach: your common lisp created atom feed doesn't contain links to the github projects (either that, or they are written in a way that my client doesn't understand). if you ever want to extend it, that would be a nice addition. (and thanks for hosting it) 19:58:31 madnificent: it does contain the links. 19:58:34 *stassats* remembers about https://gist.github.com/741780 19:58:47 *madnificent* shouts at his RSS feed client 19:58:48 damn it, my first brown bag quicklisp update might be en route. 19:59:07 cbp`` [~user@187.193.228.84] has joined #lisp 19:59:09 -!- cbp`` [~user@187.193.228.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:19 brown bag update? 19:59:37 quick update after a serious problem slips in 20:00:02 *redline6561* nods 20:00:03 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-010-221.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:00:27 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00:52 *stassats* uses 35.78 % of symbols in CL 20:01:36 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:02:14 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:16 Xach: why arent you using literate or structured programming or writing out programs by pen+paper to reduce errors?! Knuth-Dijkstra is disappointed! :p 20:02:36 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:02 is Knuth-Dijkstra a double-headed eagle? 20:03:34 knuth-dijkstra is like c/c++ 20:03:46 optikalmouse: you use lisp and literate programming? 20:04:03 madnificent: I've been thinking about it 20:04:05 gabnet [~gabnet@124.195.197.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:13 madnificent: but I haven't had a lisp project to work on lately so.... :-/ 20:04:41 optikalmouse: quick summary of your future experience: it's stunning, but the toolchain isn't integrated as well. 20:04:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:45 i write perfect programs without any of your literature things 20:06:08 *madnificent* mumbles something about BLUB and ignorance 20:07:12 Who have created a language yet 20:07:25 Guy Lewis Steele Jr 20:07:43 he's to smart to come to #lisp 20:07:45 too 20:09:06 there are days when this channel could stun a team of oxen. 20:09:11 other times, it's great. 20:09:17 Ok, who has the commit bit for alexandria? 20:09:21 in lisp 20:09:35 There is a bug in copy-stream; it checks (< start end) when end is NIL. 20:09:38 you cant have something that evaluates into function be in the first position? 20:09:55 Enerccio: not in common lisp. 20:09:56 Fade: that's it? you should see ##php, #ubuntu, #ruby-lang 20:10:19 french: More or less, all lisp programmers are constantly creating languages. 20:10:23 you can have (#.(evaluate-to-function) arguments) 20:10:27 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 20:10:52 french: I created a parallel programming language once, with an IDE. It was a toy for a school project, but complete. 20:10:55 madnificent: in the last few years I was writing stuff out by hand, the last literate programming thing I wrote was a python program, beautiful LaTeX, just beautiful ;p 20:11:03 espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2342.res.insa-lyon.fr] has joined #lisp 20:11:09 french: now that you know an instance of who created a language, what have you learned? 20:11:43 optikalmouse: org-mode has nice suppert for writing applications, and you can export to latex. to my experience, that's quite fast. however, it doesn't integrate as nicely with lisp in terms of M-. and the likes. 20:12:15 I know nothing, it's just a question. 20:12:52 madnificent: I don't mind not having slime/lisp-mode support, I do mind not having learned how to export org-mode :p 20:13:11 attila is to blame :( 20:13:35 optikalmouse: C-c C-e d ; back to lisp 20:16:47 Well, quicklisp is to blame. If everyone ran stuff out of version control, this probelem would have been noticed shortly after it was committed. 20:17:04 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:17:08 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:39 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.89.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:19:28 what if i don't update daily? 20:21:29 Someone else would 20:22:01 Crowdsourcing the qualitysphere 20:22:08 Alexandria is allowed to have bugs? o_O zomg 20:22:09 *redline6561* panics 20:22:31 there should to be a build-server which updates all projects and builds them daily 20:22:54 stassats: I do that, but do not do runtime tests. 20:23:35 That actually would be really cool. But between that and a quicklisp project rating+review site, I'd prefer the latter. Site promotes evangelism and discovery, build-server promotes maintenance and reliability. Hmm... maybe my values are off. 20:23:50 Let's have it all! 20:24:08 :) 20:24:26 interesting that emacs indents what comes after the slot name "defense-variation" differently that otherwise named slots. 20:24:32 probably because it starts with def? 20:24:38 yes 20:25:02 it's not written using literate programming 20:25:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:29 what? 20:25:51 indentation code 20:26:22 i don't see the connection 20:26:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:30 bugs 20:26:33 oh, you were talking about it 20:26:42 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:26:55 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:40 -!- french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/] 20:28:14 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:39 fe[nl]ix: is there anything I can do to help get that babel issue solved? 20:31:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:50 provide a patch? 20:32:15 basically, you need to find where it calls CODE-CHAR and make it handle NIL 20:32:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:27 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:49 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:09 Ralith: you can hire me :) 20:33:10 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DA65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:54 or what stassats says 20:34:07 stassats: oh, is NIL actually a legitimate thing for code-char to return? I had the impression it was a CCL issue. 20:34:20 i tried to do that, but babel has so many levels of indirection that i gave up 20:34:20 that shouldn't be hard to fix, then. 20:34:27 Ralith: yes 20:34:33 oh, perhaps I am overoptimistic. 20:34:36 just add a level of indirection 20:34:37 still, I'll give it a go 20:34:52 Ralith: dlowe knows the answer! 20:34:58 wisdom! 20:35:09 Ralith: i was just not motivated enough 20:36:46 hyperspec: "Returns a character with the code attribute given by code. If no such character exists and one cannot be created, nil is returned. " 20:37:00 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:37:15 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:37:21 so some implementations might not support characters others might support, but it's allowed 20:37:39 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:50 except probably for base-char which all implementations must support 20:37:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:07 not base char, standard characters 20:38:12 ah, right 20:38:34 although their code isn't specified 20:38:59 Affected By: 20:39:00 The implementation's character encoding. 20:39:07 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:32 so portable code should expect nil I guess 20:40:55 I'd merely assumed that babel already allowed for there existing codes which code-char returns nil for. 20:41:35 I guess whatever such measure there are must necessarily be incomplete, though. 20:42:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:30 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 20:43:07 optikalmouse: you're going to the torlisp meetup tonight? 20:44:35 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:08 Fade: ja 20:45:34 cool. I'll be hitting it up for the first time. 20:46:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:47:16 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@124.195.197.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:49:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:17 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:51:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:51:23 -!- wws [~billstcla@p-68-237-140-116.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 20:51:36 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:54 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:54:39 -!- rme [rme@F367759E.4E81D677.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 20:54:39 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 20:55:18 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:37 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:03 sellout: does cl-llvm work with 3.0? 21:02:34 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 21:02:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 21:02:39 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:05:42 -!- Enerccio [~enerccio@158.194.169.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120210194511]] 21:07:21 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:53 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:59 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-234-209.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:09:59 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:10:00 Xach: are there any sort of continuous integration thinks with cl for quick lisp maybe? I remember reading this http://concatenative.org/wiki/view/Factor/Build%20farm and thinking it was pretty cool 21:10:06 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:16 but I probably don't know what I'm talking about 21:11:55 hi 21:12:28 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0E5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:58 francogrex [~user@109.130.131.50] has joined #lisp 21:13:09 dekuked: it would be cool, there isn't anything systematic yet 21:13:10 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has joined #lisp 21:13:23 A little confused about bidirectional file streams. How do you splice new lines into the middle of a file? 21:13:31 Without overwriting those that precede or follow them... 21:13:46 redline6561: you can't do that with unix file semantics. 21:14:18 Xach: really?!? advised solution is to read into a sequence and then operate on that and write it out then? 21:14:42 redline6561: well, it's a lot like working with an array. if you need to put something in the middle, maybe an array is not the best data structure. 21:15:00 heh. right. 21:16:23 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-234-118.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:33 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 21:17:37 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-241-156.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:48 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:18:45 There's not in the standard a pipe stream. But you could implement it with Gray streams. Then you could write: (make-concatenated-stream (pipe-stream source-stream :start 0 :end-line 42) (make-string-input-stream (format nil "Intermediary line~%")) source-stream) 21:19:22 pjb: That is good to know. And preferable to what I was about to do. Thanks. 21:20:27 are gray streams sbcl specific? 21:20:39 Of course, you have to implement make-pipe-stream yourself. No gray stream is a de-facto standard. 21:20:43 dekuked: you can use trivial-gray-streams to do them in a portable way. 21:21:23 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.50] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:21:44 :trivial-gray-stream is not in quicklisp :-( 21:21:51 Ah, streamS 21:22:02 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:05 a lot of projects would break without trivial-gray-streams 21:22:19 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:22:41 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 21:26:38 -!- Phooodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:26:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:26:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-227.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:28:58 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:26 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:31:28 daniel [~daniel@p5B326AD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:23 about streams, how do i represent bit-streams? 21:33:27 use bytes, and construct non-aligned things manually? 21:34:29 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p508290E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:35:52 *stassats`* peruses bitstream.lisp from skippy 21:36:06 stassats`: probably best. I don't think bit ordering is always well defined (: 21:36:11 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:37:03 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:37:07 who ever thought that having bits in a format is a good idea 21:37:31 Kind of essential for compression. 21:37:41 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:37:51 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:38:11 i'd take "use 8 bits, but pack more than one things to it" 21:38:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-130-19.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:39:29 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: pa pa pa pa pa] 21:40:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:41:08 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:29 francogrex [~user@109.130.131.50] has joined #lisp 21:41:37 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:41:42 nice link: http://lisper.ru/apps/format/139 21:45:31 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-139-58.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:57 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.123.98] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 21:47:26 maybe i should experiment with bit-streams myself, although i don't think that performance loss will be outweighed by space savings 21:47:56 although reduced number of disk reads will translate in some performance increase 21:49:14 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:50:27 davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:44 stassats`: don't underestimate how slow disks really are 21:58:03 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:20 SSDs and RAM caches are good at mitigating that 21:58:34 though if you're reading from an SSD, the block side may be so big that your data fits in a single read anyways 21:58:59 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:12 SSDs are very slow in comparison to RAM as well. you need a kernel context switch and even bulk read speed is slow when compared to RAM. 22:00:11 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:30 i have enough RAM to get all files cached 22:02:00 and now i need to rewrite gigamonkey's binary-data 22:03:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:59 (using MOP instead of macros) 22:06:13 -!- sellout [~user@setf.clozure.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:19 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399162.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:08:53 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0E5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:38 RaceCondition [~erik@62.65.193.72.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 22:18:48 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:19:26 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:15 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:41 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Quit: o/] 22:23:13 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 22:23:31 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:02 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:24:06 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 22:24:10 Greetings lispers 22:24:27 -!- galiley [~user@46-47-94-53.sf.ddns.bulsat.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:31 greetings ThomasH 22:24:39 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:24:40 galiley [~user@46-47-94-53.sf.ddns.bulsat.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:47 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128121047.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:55 PISERUIC 22:28:36 -!- davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:28:51 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Quit: dekuked] 22:30:35 *Xach* is in suspense over alexandria 22:30:53 foul euros, sleeping 22:31:02 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-212-177.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:08 Xach: alexandria? The utilitity package? 22:31:47 pappy.lisp reminds me long, long ago - back in CLtL - PISERUIC was a mnemonic for the recommended order of (IIRC) provide, in-package, shadow, export, require, use-package, import,  um, code? 22:32:01 heh 22:32:12 ThomasH: that 22:32:31 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:32:41 Xach: What is causing the suspense? Looking at common-lisp.net I don't see anything obvious. 22:33:07 *stassats`* imagined Xach suspended in a large balloon over the city of Alexandria 22:33:41 the adventurous Xach Verne 22:33:55 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:50 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has joined #lisp 22:35:13 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:15 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@62.65.193.72.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 22:35:36 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:35:46 ThomasH: it is Busted and has been for days, and it breaks my programs and others 22:36:17 ah, my strategy of not upgrading to anything pays off again 22:36:35 by the time I upgrade all problems are resolved 22:36:53 Xach: Ugh. Now that I depend on QL for all but a few things, I don't have those problems. :-) 22:36:57 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.154.122.112] has joined #lisp 22:36:58 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:13 that's the problem 22:37:17 RaceCondition [~erik@62.65.193.72.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 22:37:45 exactly 22:37:56 ThomasH: the busted version made it into the latest quicklisp dist 22:38:03 let them young guns go out exploring teh wilds, I'm staying with the infirm 22:38:42 Xach: Doh! I really lucked out. I've been buried in work for the past couple weeks and haven't updated. I was just about to, tonight. 22:40:27 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 22:40:53 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:40:54 cmm [~cmm@109.65.212.177] has joined #lisp 22:41:08 Xach: So... If I had the latest dist that has the borked alexandria, couldn't I just disable it? 22:41:34 its no big deal, ppl will just patch the source 22:41:40 thats why its lisp 22:42:07 LupusY0nderboy [~somebody@cpc19-aztw23-2-0-cust99.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:21 -!- LupusY0nderboy [~somebody@cpc19-aztw23-2-0-cust99.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 22:42:56 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:33 ThomasH: you could go back to the previous dist 22:46:04 -!- dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 22:46:41 maxm-: your #\' key is not working 22:47:29 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:48:08 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:19 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:41 stassats`: no ones is, isnt that right #lisp? 22:56:09 My prime works. 22:57:00 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:19 and writing "teh" instead of "the" isn't something I would recommend to do 22:57:20 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:15 *maxm-* tries to think of a appropriate response in a form of picture of a cat 22:59:17 fails 22:59:20 Clozure now sells some app on app store for 5$ 22:59:27 written in CL, of course 23:00:06 maxm-: dijkstra-quick&dirty.jpg 23:00:46 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:00:52 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01:08 -!- Zephyrus__ [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 23:01:27 (and it can show pictures of cats, i presume) 23:02:23 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEF31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:33 stassats`: I think it was proof of concept 23:05:54 it looks like a glorified "donate" button 23:07:49 wow I scrolled towards the end of google picture search. Always thought it was endless 23:07:56 ok time for toronto lisp meetup, see y'all later 23:07:59 -!- optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:50 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:29 HaroBin [~Haro@pool-96-245-203-45.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:52 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:10:13 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 23:10:54 -!- jakky [jakk@razor.sharp.penisbird.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:09 hello, i'm new to Lisp and have a very basic question about naming conventions for parameters, i can't seem to find anything online but it seems there are some like i commonly see L for parameters that are any basic list, is there any naming conventions like these? 23:11:14 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:11:43 no 23:11:46 hugod [~user@modemcable171.160-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:12:09 naming convention in lisp is: spell out everything as it is 23:12:40 if it's a list, use "list" 23:12:48 jakky [~jokk@razor.sharp.penisbird.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:58 HaroBin: good naming is an art, some ppl are good at it, some not.. Just decribe what you think parameter is in 3-4 variants, select shortest 23:13:28 okay cool, thanks all 23:13:44 if its a an object representing a duck name parameter duck. If you'r project is mostly about duck, naming it "d" will be good convention 23:14:11 *maxm-* seen convention of naming a helper function that you can't think name for "frob" 23:14:20 or temporary helper macro 23:15:12 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 23:16:11 Qt has good naming. After a few days immersed in it, in 90% of the time you can guess parameter or class name for functionality without checking 23:17:08 -!- jakky [~jokk@razor.sharp.penisbird.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:17:19 consistent doesn't necessarily mean good 23:17:37 jakky [jakk@razor.sharp.penisbird.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:12 billyr [97976d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.151.109.15] has joined #lisp 23:18:36 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:41 hi what is "registry" in the context of asdf or asdf-install, thanks 23:19:03 a place where it finds .asd files 23:19:14 and better use quicklisp instead of asdf-install 23:21:30 stassats`:thx, i am on windows, have lisp-cabinet which has pre-configured quicklisp, however, somehow, given a package name, quicklisp's list command returns NIL 23:22:22 What package name? 23:23:08 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:21 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:03 this is what i tried in quick-lisp (ql:system-apropos "xml") 23:24:42 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:43 And that did not print anything? 23:24:55 a NIL is returned 23:24:56 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:24:58 rme__ [~rme@50.43.184.114] has joined #lisp 23:25:02 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:25:04 But is anything printed? 23:25:28 -!- rme [rme@F367759E.4E81D677.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 23:25:30 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-146.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:25:42 nothing is printed 23:25:46 -!- RaceCondition [~erik@62.65.193.72.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: RaceCondition] 23:26:46 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:26:46 -!- rme__ is now known as rme 23:29:32 -!- kmcorbett [kmcorbett@clozure-9FE07BBF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 23:29:33 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 23:29:53 could my network enviroment have caused the problem? 23:30:44 lisp-cabinet could have caused the problem. 23:30:49 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:31:03 In a properly installed Quicklisp, you should get 20 or so results printed. 23:31:30 where did you enter that command? 23:32:19 ok, i will try something different then, thank you Xach 23:32:46 you just wait, answer my question 23:33:01 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:33:30 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:33:32 i entered the command from emacs/slime 23:33:57 under CL-USER> prompt 23:34:15 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:34:29 can you switch to *inferior-lisp* buffer and look around? 23:34:48 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:54 dekuked [~k@pool-108-7-203-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:07 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:35:36 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 23:36:54 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.159.153] has joined #lisp 23:37:53 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:40 *inferior-lisp* had some undefined functions "ASDF-Config" being one of them, I just shutdown emacs, and this time slime wouldn't start.... 23:40:05 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:34 maybe I should reinstall lisp-cabinet 23:41:27 Vicfred [~Futaba@189.143.79.99] has joined #lisp 23:42:03 start emacs/slime and error msg says "The name "QUICKLISP" does not designate any package." 23:42:36 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:48 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:15 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:10 http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-windows/ is a pretty good guide to do it without any of the lisp cabinet stuff, though I'd use ccl instead of clisp 23:46:30 Otherwise you might want to appeal to the lisp cabinet person/people for guidance 23:46:44 *Xach* has heard multiple lisp cabinet problem reports today 23:48:10 or maybe i'd use the Friendly Fork of SBCL 23:48:29 i will try all of them Xach, thx 23:49:58 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:50:53 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEF31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:05 -!- dekuked [~k@pool-108-7-203-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dekuked] 23:55:28 -!- jakky [jakk@razor.sharp.penisbird.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:55:57 *stassats`* found his patch to SBCL which does The function COMMON-LISP-USER::LISC is undefined. [Condition of type UNDEFINED-FUNCTION] Restarts: 0: [DWIM-FUNCTION] Did you mean LIST? 23:57:21 i should try to use it for a while to see how useful it really is 23:57:53 zsh does that; I haven't found it to be terribly useful there. 23:58:11 CCL does it OOTB 23:58:29 i actually use it in zsh and find it useful MOT 23:58:37 jakky [jakk@razor.sharp.penisbird.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:52 T 23:58:54 -!- ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:05 too much abbreviations