00:00:15 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.61] has joined #lisp 00:01:20 kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 00:01:27 hmmm.. that doesn't seem to work 00:02:54 Taslem [320472e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.4.114.231] has joined #lisp 00:05:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:13 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:10:18 hi WarWeasle . 00:10:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:10:24 HELLO! 00:10:27 :) 00:10:30 How are you? 00:10:30 i should join #lispgames 00:10:37 WarWeasle: o 00:10:43 you arn't a founding member? 00:10:45 i'm good, taking a hack break 00:11:02 Cool. I'm trying to figure out how to and cffi enums 00:11:15 (Making ASSIMP bindings) 00:11:23 when i dont want to be disturbed in deep hack, i close pidgin and just hook one erc process into #blocky 00:11:32 so that i can at least get dev pings 00:11:34 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:34 from people 00:11:46 http://assimp.sourceforge.net/ 00:11:46 WarWeasle: anding cffi enums sounds funffi 00:11:57 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:41 oh yes ive seen this. 00:12:54 WarWeasle: get their integer values, logior them 00:14:18 stassats: I thought of that but it seems wrong... 00:14:57 I have to go afk for a moment...back later. 00:17:37 -!- Taslem [320472e7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.4.114.231] has left #lisp 00:20:08 WarWeasle: who named assimp 00:20:13 Germans 00:20:19 ah. 00:22:31 nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:55 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:24:33 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:48 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:27:13 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:32:04 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 00:36:18 msmith2 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-145-177.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:30 hello all. anyone know how to break out of a format loop? I just want to print the first element of a list and ignore the rest 00:37:58 ~1{ 00:38:28 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:43 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 00:38:53 stassats: thanks, been looking everywhere for the answer 00:39:09 have you tried reading CLHS? 00:40:25 KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.50.144] has joined #lisp 00:46:27 -!- msmith2 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-145-177.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:10 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:32 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:50:38 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8D5F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:04 one does not just read CLHS 00:52:10 simply 00:53:00 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA01AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:53:42 Why does clhs.lisp.se exist? To be an easy to remember URL? l1sp.org/cl is also easy to remember 00:54:12 why do you ask so much questions? 00:57:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:30 fail: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: PermGen space at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1(Native Method) 01:10:51 hmm... how do I give ABCL more memory 01:10:53 ? 01:11:25 google java set heap size 01:12:24 yeah yeah 01:17:32 ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has joined #lisp 01:17:49 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:54 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:21:03 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 01:27:15 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:28:04 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:12 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128247084.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:40 Inaimathi [4c42a896@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.168.150] has joined #lisp 01:37:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37:45 at least when these java processes crap out they stick around spinning and chewing up lots of CPU 01:44:28 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:18 Hello 01:48:49 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 01:48:56 slyrus: there's also the problem that code in java can't be unloaded 01:49:09 nor GCed 01:49:45 How much does being on the JVM hurt Clojure as a language? 01:49:52 It means no built-in TCO, but anything else? 01:50:14 Maybe I should ask in #clojure 01:50:27 you should 01:50:45 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:50:54 Sgeo_: many things 01:52:31 Are you still here? 01:52:42 yes 01:54:18 Cosman246, yes? 01:54:55 Here: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42 01:55:06 My main objections are there 01:55:13 (I didn't write the thing, though) 01:57:36 http://jng.imagine27.com/articles/2009-08-19-011225_clojure_the_false_lisp.html 01:58:21 Forget clojure, just start a useful project and write some code 01:58:41 Or write your own toy lisp (or spec if you're like me) 01:58:50 (IOR, not XOR) 01:59:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.147.218.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:59:45 Coming from Haskell, I kind of like enforced immutability. 02:00:22 I feel it's a straitjacket 02:00:50 Support, don't lock 02:01:32 -!- lebro is now known as seanstickleses 02:01:53 while you dicking around with haskell, another 5 "taught himself php in 20 days" coders will write a useful web forum or whatever. Yes it will be non-functional, full of holes, and sql inejections, but it will be there working, while you still designing your type system 02:02:07 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052096124.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:02:54 -!- seanstickleses is now known as lebro 02:07:39 kai_ [~kai@e177091061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:07:46 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has joined #lisp 02:10:24 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:28 maxm-: i doubt you've done any code in haskell 02:10:46 madnificent: you are correct, and I have no desire to do so 02:11:08 vortixo [~topobot@200.108.108.164] has joined #lisp 02:11:27 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: good night] 02:11:44 maxm-: that's fair. but your remark about the time it takes to write the type system is misplaced. 02:12:08 once haskell guys start producing useful software, I'll change my mind, so far they produced darcs and the window manager thing (forgot the name). I had tried one of these, and it sucked so bad it was not even funny 02:12:23 xmonad is pretty cool 02:12:26 judge things by its results not its content 02:12:40 (the window manager thing) 02:12:45 I assume you tried darcs, which is maligned by several Haskell obsessives I know. 02:12:48 maxm-: that window manager is xmonad. don't judge a language on what's written in it, judge it on its potential. the same goes for lisp. 02:12:55 02:12:57 I've heard good things about xmonad. 02:13:04 Haven't tried it myself though. 02:13:14 soooo, back to lisp, it's #lisp :) 02:13:28 is it true i can reanimate corpses with lisp?? 02:13:37 *maxm-* also heard good things about xmonad, but stump is just good/hackable enough for me so I don't see payoff in learning haskell to just try it 02:13:46 hi, can i make a non lisp related question? 02:14:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-220-236.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:14:31 every repository when I was using darcs eventually hit exponential merge explosion that could not be recovered from 02:14:42 Fare [Adium@nat/google/x-nduoparmqxipcnzn] has joined #lisp 02:14:47 hi 02:15:00 Published quite a few libraries this weekend. 02:15:09 I wonder which versions will make it to Quicklisp. 02:15:33 as the APIs have fluctuated somewhat. 02:15:56 Fare: the quicklisp release has been postponed, so you may get more in than expected :) 02:16:09 cmm [~cmm@109.67.212.234] has joined #lisp 02:16:42 lebro: indeed you can! 02:17:00 scav_vector in gc-common ? 02:17:15 just use (necromance :zombie nil...) 02:17:30 unhandled dwarf expression opcode 0xf3 02:17:33 haha 02:17:54 line 1778 02:17:59 lol 02:18:07 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18:57 scan_weak_pointers ..... 02:18:57 I think SBCL sets zombie to nil internally 02:19:08 probably because of all the invasions 02:19:27 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:01 very wise 02:21:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.212.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:22:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-212-177.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:14 -!- alek_b [~alek_b@99-10-120-63.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:04 low_level_handle_now_handler (signal=11, info=0x7ffff72b7db0, void_context=0x7ffff72b7c80) at interrupt.c:1727 uhh 02:25:08 A syntax error in expression, near `$pc+24'. 02:25:44 and now i'm in ldb, gc-signals blocked.... 02:25:47 bleh 02:25:52 i have this fuction that allows me to interpolate between 2 values 02:26:09 how can i extend it in order to interpolate 3 or 4 values? 02:26:15 can i post a 2 line code? 02:26:38 OK. I'll try to publish a full example with package-renaming, then... 02:26:50 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:27:01 vortixo: paste.lisp.org 02:27:48 *maxm-* has lame emacs iface that pastes active region at http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/newpaste.el 02:28:01 Seems to work for me 02:28:37 ok 02:29:45 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:29:55 vortixo: the channel posting feature of paste.lisp.org is broken. do not select a channel there, but paste the url manually 02:32:40 ok 02:32:42 here it is 02:32:44 http://paste.lisp.org/+2QVO. 02:33:10 vortixo: you are in the wrong channel. #lisp is about lisp. 02:33:39 lmao 02:34:05 probably asked on #haskell and they trolled him to come here 02:34:12 where can i ask this? is more a general question 02:34:12 not a about a specific language but more about the algorithm 02:34:33 vortixo: your ta? a textbook on algorithms? 02:35:08 vortixo: maybe you can reformulate your sample code in lisp so that we can discuss it here? 02:35:38 it seems to be a new fashion to come to #lisp in order to solve "general programming questions". 02:36:27 dont you understand the code? 02:36:31 i think its pretty clear 02:36:37 vortixo: no. 02:36:46 I don't recognize that language 02:36:55 and i got an internal X failure RenderBadPicture invalid picture parameter.... 02:37:02 vortixo, what language is that? 02:37:07 vortixo: also, i'm not interested in "general programming questions" really. i am hear to discuss lisp. 02:37:16 perhaps its his own dsl in lisp 02:37:18 here 02:37:23 lebro: right. 02:37:31 | in1, in2, frac | is the argument of the function 02:37:37 I was thinking Smalltalk because of the | | but it's not. 02:37:37 vortixo: please. 02:37:44 vortixo, what language is that in? 02:37:48 Or is it pseudocode? 02:38:04 what might cause cl-fad:list-directory to return nil when the dir is not empty? 02:38:20 in1 =in1; I can imagine a bizarre language where this may be useful, but if so, this isn't pseudocode 02:38:32 it is small talk 02:39:00 vortixo: and why don't you go to a smalltalk support forum with your smalltalk programming question? 02:39:04 f.value makes little to no sense in Smalltalk 02:39:23 dammit. I just realize that to locally rename packages, you need a hook not just around compile, but also around load. 02:39:24 Sigh. 02:39:33 Same with = in that context. 02:39:48 And that's not comment syntax. 02:40:06 Grrrr.... 02:40:33 vortixo, if you go to a Smalltalk channel, let me know? I want to be there too. 02:40:37 Lets see ... (defun interpolate (a b frac) (+ a (* frac (- b a)))) 02:40:42 that about right? 02:40:49 Grrrr again. 02:41:00 Is it Ruby? 02:41:04 Should I have two hooks, one for around-compile, the other for around-load 02:41:08 or only one hook? 02:41:20 or three hooks, one for both, and one for either? 02:41:23 I forgot if |a, b, c| means anything in Ruby 02:41:26 Oh, actually 02:41:36 It does 02:41:48 Sgeo_: it specifies block arguments 02:41:50 Yeah, I think it's Ruby 02:42:11 also, I don't think so. Ruby doesn't terminate lines with ;s 02:42:45 Inaimathi, apparently they're allowed 02:42:53 "Ruby allows the use of the semi-colon as a statement separator. This means you can place one at the end of a line and also use it as a way to put multiple statements on a single line. Don't do this. A semi-colon at the end of the line is superfluous and placing multiple statements on one line decreases the legibility of your code." 02:42:57 http://www.caliban.org/ruby/rubyguide.shtml#semicolon 02:43:16 vortixo is in #ruby right now. 02:43:36 Fare have you thought about custom reader instead, thoght somenone here already has one? 02:43:46 Well yeah, but I'd only expect them in one liners (and ending a {}-wrapped block with one is just asinine IMO) 02:43:57 Fare: then you can really do any magic you like, including late binding conflict resolution 02:44:01 yes that Inaimathi 02:44:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:44:05 but how can you extend it for using with 3 values instead of 2? 02:44:10 interpolating between 3 values? 02:44:13 &rest ? 02:44:59 it is smalltalk! 02:45:42 no bro thats php 02:46:05 Someone in another channel: "it's almost-valid Ruby (needs a "proc" or "lambda" before the {); I think there's also a embedded scripting language that nicks the lambda syntax from Ruby in which it might be fully valid" 02:46:14 vortixo: can you explain why you want to extend the function for three instead of two values? 02:47:17 vortixo: what H4ns said. What would you want the output of an N number set to be? Just the mean weighed by `frac`? 02:47:18 vortixo, where did that code come from? 02:47:22 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:29 because i want to interpolate between a lot of numbers not just 2 options 02:47:45 i need to have something like this: 02:47:48 (2, 5, 2, 0.5) -----> gives 5 02:48:00 because the index goes from 0 to 1 always and 0.5 is the half of (2, 5, 2) so it is 5 02:48:02 vortixo: but why? what does your program do, in the end? 02:48:20 they are just experiments 02:48:20 vortixo, what program do you use to run your code? 02:48:33 maxm-: I have custom reader with reader-interception. 02:48:33 nothing really useful as a traditional programmer 02:48:37 That works great. 02:48:43 -!- Inaimathi [4c42a896@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.168.150] has quit [] 02:48:49 See my reader-interception package. 02:48:56 i use small talk 02:48:56 but it doens mind the sintaxis 02:48:57 vortixo, and did you write that code, or copy it from somewhere? 02:49:00 it a problem of the algorithm 02:49:12 how to implement the algorithm , sintaxis doesnt mind 02:49:21 Fare: so why do you need to hook load, would not packages be already translated by the reader? 02:49:24 but then, I haven't written a reimplementation of the CL reader to tweak packages. 02:49:29 it is my school homework 02:49:36 ah, the sintaxis 02:49:39 vortixo: no, really! 02:49:52 the hack I was thinking of was renaming the packages while compiling 02:49:57 vortixo: and you come to #lisp to get help for your smalltalk homework, eh? 02:50:04 vortixo: hire a brighter kid to do it for you, sheesh. nerds need work 02:50:09 but then the fasl contains the renamed packages and won't load unless you also rename while loading. 02:50:26 H4ns, it makes little to no sense as Smalltalk. 02:51:12 Maybe I should open Pharo 02:51:15 em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:54 ok guys 02:52:04 forget about my question and answer this: 02:52:08 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:52:18 how can i extend this function in order to use 3 values instead of one? 02:52:23 (defun interpolate (a b frac) (+ a (* frac (- b a)))) 02:52:43 vortixo: 1) get a lisp book 02:52:46 vortixo: 2) read 02:52:59 Fare: oh I have not thought of that, I thought you doing it like "existing package foo, but make source refer to it as :bar" kind of like adding a nickname, but you doing the opposite 02:53:02 vortixo: 3) change function to accept more arguments. 02:53:05 vortixo: done. 02:53:08 vortixo, where did you get the program to run your code? 02:53:11 vortixo: what exactly do you want to do with it? 02:53:15 Fare: maybe hook find-package instead? 02:53:18 Cosman246: it is homework 02:53:27 Using &rest might help 02:53:30 H4ns: ah 02:53:30 altho its probably not guaranteed implementation use that instead of their own interface 02:54:54 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177091061.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 02:55:22 Fare: just out of curiosity what is the use-case for it, not by any chance to have a debug and optimized version of same package? Coz I have a different direction hack on that 02:55:47 which changes asdf .fasl stores location, to include compilation policy setting 02:56:16 -!- em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:56:16 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:57:17 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:47 Hooking find-package is not portable. 02:59:11 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:28 and/or would have to come with plenty of implementation-dependent package-lock averting code. 02:59:44 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.50.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:59:51 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:53 KDr2 [~kdr2@219.236.86.63] has joined #lisp 03:00:12 Whether the implementation's reader calls find-package is not guaranteed either and might or might not work in practice. 03:00:43 vortixo, I think you should ask #ruby 03:01:01 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:02:12 vortixo, do you use lisp? 03:02:23 if I only allow for nicknames, not renaming, the thing might work 03:02:41 as long as you don't clash with existing packages 03:03:45 forget it 03:04:27 No, please, stay! 03:04:32 We're just a bit confused 03:05:06 vortixo, you're looking for the d sharp minor mixolydian algorithm 03:05:21 :O 03:05:33 Some of us don't suffer newcomers very well 03:05:48 shark milon mixolydoid algorithm? 03:06:22 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:27 have u tried the frufru whoopbang martini algorithm?? 03:12:23 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wkqftjyiezaqbxto] has joined #lisp 03:12:32 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A26E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:33 chenbing` [~user@60.186.111.84] has joined #lisp 03:15:10 here is the complete code 03:15:15 but only for hardcore people 03:15:32 http://paste.lisp.org/+2QVP 03:15:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.174.83] has joined #lisp 03:15:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.174.83] has quit [Changing host] 03:15:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:15:46 -!- chenbing [~user@122.233.177.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:17:12 only hardcore brains can understand that 03:18:45 Ask on the channel for whatever language this is written in? you don't go to a hockey club asking for soccer tips. 03:18:54 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:19:16 Vicfred [~Futaba@189.228.27.126] has joined #lisp 03:19:24 maxm-, I don't think anyone entirely knows what language this is written in 03:19:35 maxm-: But I think you can ask any of them for exercising tips 03:19:51 It's almost-Ruby 03:19:58 Except vortixo thinks its Smalltalk. 03:20:01 it is a programming language called supercollider 03:20:09 it is based on smalltalk 03:20:10 ...Thank you, you could have told us this sooner. 03:20:58 A language being based off another does not mean the syntax will be the same, or that people from the ancestor language will be able to understand your code. 03:21:05 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.228.27.126] has quit [Client Quit] 03:21:17 "Based on" is NOT "same as" 03:22:06 Phooodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:12 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:22:27 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:28 ok 03:22:43 There is in fact a supercollider channel 03:22:46 #supercollider 03:22:59 yes im there 03:24:05 dys`` [~andreas@krlh-5f71e4c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:50 -!- dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f71e967.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:25:56 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:27:19 Vicfred [~Futaba@189.228.31.254] has joined #lisp 03:28:10 wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:30:08 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:14 -!- wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:34:53 teggi [~teggi@123.21.170.206] has joined #lisp 03:42:21 sunmix [~user@49.49.198.127] has joined #lisp 03:44:37 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:40 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.58.205] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 03:50:36 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:55:02 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 03:55:39 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:47 inaimathi [4c42a896@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.168.150] has joined #lisp 03:57:54 -!- vortixo [~topobot@200.108.108.164] has left #lisp 03:59:50 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:06:29 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:08:25 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:10:03 -!- zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 04:11:42 I finally worked out how to write a function I want to write. 04:11:50 (Just to see that I can, no real use) 04:13:17 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:39 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has joined #lisp 04:17:39 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has quit [Client Quit] 04:18:10 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128150 04:19:19 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:20:50 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:10 Are there better ways to write that? 04:21:18 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:21:24 -!- otter-nmc [~brian.jon@wsip-24-234-67-220.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [] 04:21:29 demonview [~ayrnieu@50.15.104.42] has joined #lisp 04:21:54 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-135-74.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:58 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:08 I'm getting sbcl compile errors when trying to compile stumpwm. 04:22:52 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:59 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:23:04 I don't know how to understand the compile error. 04:23:26 it seems to be in the sbcl debugger. I've also asked on stumpwm. 04:23:52 -!- inaimathi [4c42a896@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.168.150] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:24:38 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA01AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:24:40 Sgeo_: yes, the usual way? (let ((discriminant^1/2 (sqrt (- (* b b) (* 4 a c))))) ...) 04:25:11 I should probably install paredit 04:26:30 springz [~springz@116.231.107.88] has joined #lisp 04:28:43 what kind of compile error would: debugger invoked on ASDF:COMPILE-ERROR in thread # be? 04:28:43 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:05 I hope I'm not being rude here. I am a newb. 04:32:17 there's a pastebin in the title; if you don't know what's significant, dump the whole thing into it and then ask. 04:32:36 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ymvylmusuavovaln] has joined #lisp 04:32:37 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ymvylmusuavovaln] has quit [Changing host] 04:32:37 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:33:05 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:05 ok 04:35:03 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wkqftjyiezaqbxto] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:36:43 ok, I made package-renaming more useful by explaining how to work around the limitation to renaming packages at compile-time. 04:36:55 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:37:18 long README 04:37:50 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:37:59 it's possible to do arbitrary compile-time renaming, as long as you follow some discipline. 04:38:25 who was it who asked how to do compile-time package renaming? 04:40:20 http://pastebin.com/h11Y9tmx 04:40:37 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:56 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:41:05 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:41:15 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 04:41:57 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:44:36 I'm not convinced debian's CLX works with stumpwm. I'd try to use the one in quicklisp. 04:44:57 Argh 04:45:07 I activated paredit in SLIME REPL 04:45:21 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 04:45:21 pkhuong: ok 04:45:21 Now I can't seem to type (+ and have enter take me to the next line 04:45:58 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 04:46:00 Sent the full details to asdf-devel 04:49:08 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-248-14.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:49:36 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-158-202.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:19 Sgeo_: I use ctrl-j 04:53:35 Neat, thanks 04:53:52 Sgeo_: also had to make a slight mod to one slime function to make history search work 04:54:18 History search? 04:54:24 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 04:55:01 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:55:14 my terminology may be incorrect, but e.g. you type (def then alt-p and it will bring up the definitions you have typed, in order 04:55:24 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:03 Unless paredit blocks it in the REPL, is what you're saying I gues.s 04:56:04 guess. 04:56:11 Hmm, do I really need paredit in the REPL? 04:56:38 IIRC the problem was the closing paren made the search pattern (def), I'll make a paste... 04:57:12 Meh 04:57:19 I didn't even know that functionality existed 04:57:25 I'm a bit of an emacs newbie 04:57:48 pkhuong: quicklisp worked 04:59:38 bwinner [~privado37@201.79.131.129] has joined #lisp 04:59:52 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:59:57 -!- bwinner [~privado37@201.79.131.129] has left #lisp 05:00:26 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-135-74.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:01:55 metaxy [47c01bb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.192.27.178] has joined #lisp 05:03:22 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-135-74.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:28 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:04:38 DataLinkDroid [~David@120.158.171.142] has joined #lisp 05:04:44 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:05:16 thnx 05:09:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128153 I prefer my repl with paredit, but I'm sure preferences differ 05:09:50 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:11:07 dmh [~dmh@tradesys.us] has joined #lisp 05:11:19 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:24 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:31 -!- dmh [~dmh@tradesys.us] has quit [Changing host] 05:11:31 dmh [~dmh@unaffiliated/dmh] has joined #lisp 05:11:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lzbetwekopvcpekf] has joined #lisp 05:13:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:50 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has joined #lisp 05:13:52 -!- arbscht 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[~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:11:04 lambda47 [~lambda47@175.169.144.218] has joined #lisp 06:12:16 -!- lambda47 [~lambda47@175.169.144.218] has left #lisp 06:12:33 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:15:24 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:15:40 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-210-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:21:40 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:22:37 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 06:23:17 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-185-162.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 06:23:43 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.89.251] has joined #lisp 06:30:07 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:30:08 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.158.171.142] has left #lisp 06:31:46 Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-77-206.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:31:56 -!- dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:28 -!- demonview [~ayrnieu@50.15.104.42] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:38:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:39:00 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:39:43 nostoi [~nostoi@18.Red-79-154-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:40 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:43:43 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:42 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:47:05 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 06:51:18 maxm-: as long as there's no :compile-depends-on in the main system loading infrastructure, the whole question of cl-def not wrapping its export in eval-when is moot... I'm aware of these issues, but don't bother until I port a library to xcvb. 06:51:44 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:51:55 Riz_L [~Riz_Lapto@adsl-75-57-170-76.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:09 ...at which point the question is much more complex than a mere eval-when around exports... 06:53:31 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:54:59 huh. people use xcvb? 06:56:38 -!- dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:56:53 dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 06:57:38 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 07:01:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:02:55 So, compiler macros exist for optimizations only? 07:05:10 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.228.31.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:07:03 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:07:52 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:02 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@18.Red-79-154-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:09:40 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has joined #lisp 07:10:27 Yes. They must not affect program semantics. 07:10:49 (Since they are applied at the discretion of the compiler) 07:13:33 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:15:31 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-urqpwshisqngcmbu] has joined #lisp 07:21:22 -!- fukushima [~fukushima@z176.58-98-148.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:24:06 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:24:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:25:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:25:09 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-185-162.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:43 -!- sunmix [~user@49.49.198.127] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:27:29 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 07:30:18 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:33:11 nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:06 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35:29 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:37:20 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.89.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:37:26 -!- nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:40:17 nauar [~nauar@ip235200.bcn.altecom.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:16 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 07:42:57 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:43:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:47:13 railajs [423af461@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.244.97] has joined #lisp 07:47:31 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:50:38 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.223.196] has joined #lisp 07:51:09 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.223.196] has quit [Client Quit] 07:53:44 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:04 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@181.28.178.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:57:54 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:00 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:58:11 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:58:55 -!- railajs [423af461@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.58.244.97] has left #lisp 08:00:39 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:03:38 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:07:22 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.55.19] has joined #lisp 08:09:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-19.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: a sixty] 08:10:53 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 08:10:57 morning 08:11:32 hi 08:11:35 adhoc [~adhoc@50-56-189-236.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.55.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:12:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:15:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:16:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:19:13 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:38 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:20:00 -!- pjb is now known as Guest45319 08:21:14 -!- Guest45319 is now known as pjb 08:25:53 good morning 08:26:06 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:21 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:27:16 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tgabgxnbcpgawnbu] has joined #lisp 08:28:04 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:28:26 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:28:45 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-112-169.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:53 Shvillr [~Shviller@poncelet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:30:30 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.195.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:31:38 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 08:32:38 Can I remove a function from function namespace? Undefine? 08:32:46 fmakunbound? 08:33:59 Indeed. 08:34:02 why is it mak and not make? 08:34:14 alesguzik [~alesguzik@86.57.158.170] has joined #lisp 08:34:38 -!- Shvillr [~Shviller@poncelet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:02 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:39:29 Shvillr_ [~Shviller@poncelet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:40:33 limetree: have you ever typed a program on 029? 08:41:07 or even on a tty? 08:41:56 never heard of 029 08:42:24 http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/029.html 08:43:01 Those are electro MECANICAL devices. The keys are very hard to press. Each spared character is a big win on your fingers. 08:43:44 Besides, shorter identifiers stand on less words. When packing 6 character a word, sometimes one character can double or multiply by 1.66 the memory usage. 08:44:25 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:46:05 aha! i wonder why they didn't use unbind/funbind instead 08:46:13 Where could I find the definition of defun? 08:47:27 speaking of mechanical keys, has anyone else tried these new keyboards with "cherry switches". i think they are fantastic. 08:47:38 sie: in the source of your favourite implementation? 08:47:54 -!- chenbing` [~user@60.186.111.84] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:48:13 pjb: have you programmed on such a machine? 08:48:36 chenbing [~user@60.186.111.84] has joined #lisp 08:49:17 Yes. 08:49:41 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.100.3] has joined #lisp 08:49:44 I punched a couple of COBOL programs on those. 08:49:59 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:11 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:50:38 Happily, there were also professionnal punchers who could be bothered to punch our student programs when their workload was light, so I didn't have to punch the third COBOL program. :-) 08:51:10 hehehe 08:51:24 I thought you punched the students ;) 08:51:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-210-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:51:28 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:51:59 limetree: heavy keys is also why unix convention for program options uses '-' instead of '+', as well as having short command names and everything lowercase 08:52:39 (the shift key on ASR-33 was supposedly *very* hard to press) 08:53:08 :) 08:54:58 playing a bit with retrocomputing can be great learning experience even today 08:55:14 How much do those cost these days? 08:55:18 If I want to play with one? 08:55:33 I'm guessing either a lot due to antiqueness or not much due to age 08:56:06 *Sgeo_* has no idea about retrocomputing costs 08:56:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:45 Sgeo_: well, thehardware doesn't cost much, if you can find it. What costs a lot is the transport: they're heavy! 08:56:48 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has joined #lisp 08:56:56 emulation tends to cost nothing :) 08:57:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:57:13 but yes, a lot of the hardware will be cheap, assuming you *find* it 08:57:24 and sometimes it's a problem of finding all the parts that match up 08:58:10 and some hw is simply near-impossible to get, and you would need specialist knowledge to patch it up to run 08:58:25 (like surviving PDP-10) 08:58:52 And the problem for emulation is finding the documentation. 08:59:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.100.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:08 At least, you cannot hope to find it all on the Internet. 08:59:40 And when companies who made the hardware have been bought over half a dozen time or more, there's little hope to find the specs 09:01:09 ehu [~ehuels@109.38.250.92] has joined #lisp 09:01:24 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 09:03:27 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:03:48 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:04:56 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 09:07:20 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:07:56 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-112-169.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:08:11 well, Digital's stuff is pretty well documented with lots of software available, at least for their major systems 09:09:05 but when one of the prominent designers of said hardware is the guy writing the emulators, and the other emulator was originally done on contract for Digital to support migrating customers... :D 09:09:48 the one thing that is probably close to impossible to get would be Multics versions of Maclisp 09:11:35 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:39 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:11:50 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:12:20 TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5CED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:59 blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 09:17:09 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:17:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:20:43 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:24:50 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:26:43 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@86.57.158.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:48 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:11 -!- chenbing [~user@60.186.111.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:03 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:42 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ebmxdpluejavbycz] has joined #lisp 09:31:51 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:32:51 -!- _KDr2_ [~kdr2@123.112.71.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:53 -!- gf3 is now known as everyone 09:36:00 -!- everyone is now known as gf3 09:38:29 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:36 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:38:58 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:03 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 09:40:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 09:47:08 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:19 -!- springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:56:55 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:00:09 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:02:23 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:29 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 10:08:57 momo-reina [~user@e0109-114-22-45-52.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 10:10:11 is there anyway to automate finish-output? at the moment, i have to place everywhere i print to screen 10:10:13 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:11:24 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-185.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:11:35 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:43 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A8DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:01 momo-reina: define a function that does it for you? 10:13:36 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-99.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:14:16 same thing, i would have to place the function everywhere 10:14:29 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 10:14:42 my app does a fair bit of interaction with the user 10:15:19 right now, everytime i print something, i have to put finish-output before the (read) command 10:16:06 you could wrap the standard output stream with your own, I guess. unfortunately, extended streams are not standartized. fortunately, there are libraries that provide a compatibility layer 10:16:18 momo-reina: i meant to make a function that would do printing _and_ finish-output, all in one function 10:16:45 jdz: wrap the princ and format functions you mean? 10:16:52 momo-reina: and why don't you do all 3 in one function: print the thing, finish output, and then read input? 10:16:58 could do that i guess but isn't there a more generic way to do it? 10:17:37 trivial-gray-streams is in quicklisp 10:17:41 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:46 cmm: i think that's the best way to do it 10:17:58 cmm: will look into it thanks 10:21:34 will this do the trick? (sb-gray:stream-finish-output *standard-output*) 10:21:49 shevy [~shevy@88-117-33-21.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 10:22:40 hi. perl was the first "scripting" language, that paved the way for others in some regards gradually (php, python, ruby). Before perl, there were shell scripts, I think. My question is - did lisp fit into the niche of "scripting" languages, or what they do? I am trying to find out if there were other "scripting" languages before perl 10:23:35 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:23:51 shevy: tcl. 10:24:47 shevy: bsh is 11 years older. 10:25:15 pjb: wikipedia says that tcl is newer than perl -- 1987 vs. 1988 10:25:22 bsh? 10:25:49 momo-reina: I doubt it 10:25:51 the bourne shell, predecessor of bash -- and there've been other shells before that 10:25:54 ah 10:26:21 although there has to be some limit to what gets called "scripting" somewhere 10:26:39 flip215: bourne shell is just 'sh' 10:26:40 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:42 not 'bsh' 10:26:56 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:27:22 well, there's been ksh and csh too ... ksh is listed as 1983 10:27:41 did lisp not fit into the perl mentality back then? I am trying to understand a little bit the ecosystem around those days (as I still wonder why shell scripts are so popular) 10:27:45 sorry 10:27:48 not "perl mentality" 10:27:51 just "mentality" back then 10:28:22 I don't actually know gray streams, but I would expect that you'd need to define your own stream class which defines its own :after output method (not sure if just one, btw) that does (finish-output). and then you'd need to somehow make sure the screen output is an instance of your class. it should be easily doable 10:28:22 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 10:28:23 -!- bas_ is now known as SKola 10:29:11 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129204048.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 10:29:29 shevy: CL comes from a non-unix environment, and was definitely one of the "heavier" languages 10:29:55 cmm: yeah i'm looking at the sbcl manual on gray streams and the example does just that 10:29:56 springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has joined #lisp 10:29:58 emacs lisp is probably closest to a scripting lisp you can find 10:30:14 bourne shell ad its descendants, as well as C shell, were much simpler and depended on mixing different DSLs and tools 10:30:18 cmm: problem is it's a bit way over my head, i'm quite the newbie 10:30:35 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:11 momo-reina: the suggestion to abstract print/prompt/read is a very good one. 10:31:27 using gray streams is not a great idea. 10:31:33 maxm-: actually it's harder to write #! scripts with emacs than with clisp or even sbcl. 10:31:42 I use clisp to write all my #! scripts. 10:31:59 maxm-: eg. it's hard in emacs lisp to write filter scripts. 10:32:05 Xach: why not? performance issues or just leads to buggy code? 10:32:21 -!- dys`` is now known as dys 10:32:38 it's just hard to run #!/usr/bin/emacs scripts I had to write a little bootstrap program to be able to use emacs as a #! scripting language. 10:33:18 momo-reina: It's the wrong place to solve the problem. 10:34:03 vsync [~JBouncer@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 10:35:14 ThatOtherPersonY [~david@166.87.157.149] has joined #lisp 10:36:40 Well, it's harder and less direct, anyway. 10:37:49 yeah, making the stream effectively unbuffered is a big hammer. a more localized solution, if possible, would be preferable 10:38:12 -!- vsync [~JBouncer@24.173.173.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:22 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-210-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:41:06 -!- springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:42:56 Xach: thanks, i just implemented that solution and it works 10:44:56 KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.237.37] has joined #lisp 10:45:22 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:46:20 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:47:35 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:48:41 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 10:51:00 -!- wakeup_ [~wakeup@p57A5750D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:51:11 wakeup [~wakeup@p57A5750D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:23 -!- ThatOtherPersonY [~david@166.87.157.149] has quit [Quit: Error 314: math homework unfinished] 10:52:07 I see p_l, thanks 10:52:42 -!- momo-reina [~user@e0109-114-22-45-52.uqwimax.jp] has left #lisp 10:52:46 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 10:55:35 mensch [~mensch@c-24-128-27-99.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:37 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 10:57:46 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.237.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:17 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.110.241] has joined #lisp 10:59:39 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 11:01:45 Hm. Someone said something to or about me several days ago. I wonder if it was important 11:02:11 shevy: mind you, there was mildly successful Scheme Shell (SCSH), which included various nice things people lacked in KSH and relatives, while having arguably cleaner syntax and being faster than Perl 11:03:45 hey shevy! 11:03:56 madnificent!!!! 11:04:00 :) 11:04:18 KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.237.37] has joined #lisp 11:04:30 madnificent I am on my long quest to uncover the historic reasons why shell scripts still exist today :D 11:04:40 unfortunately I gotta leave here in about ~10 mins 11:05:07 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 11:05:51 meta-physicist [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 11:07:02 shevy: why would we remove shell scripts? the language they're written isn't fixed, so that isn't a problem. and it kind-of makes sense that programmers want to automate things. 11:08:07 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:08:43 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:45 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:12:14 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 11:14:24 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 11:14:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lzbetwekopvcpekf] has left #lisp 11:15:03 -!- meta-physicist [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:59 if you worry about speed of your shell scripts, its time to rewrite it in diff language 11:16:00 11:16:03 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has joined #lisp 11:16:55 is there a faster way to copy a sequence into another sequence with a certain offset, other than copying each of its elements one by one? 11:17:05 maxm-: case in point: boot time of unix-like systems 11:17:27 madnificent: replace 11:17:47 thanks maxm-, totally forgot 11:18:09 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Client Quit] 11:18:15 jdz: well its really inefficient design, I doubt actual execution of the shell scripts takes as much as 5% of that time 11:18:19 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 11:18:42 jdz: there are parallel start init.d projects that cut this time down dramatically 11:18:47 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p57A5750D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:09 wakeup [~wakeup@p57A5750D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:44 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:22:48 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 11:23:08 _KDr2_ [~kdr2@123.122.100.5] has joined #lisp 11:25:34 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@114.243.237.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:25:54 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:26:52 maxm-: do you know the number of times the grep and/or awk are invoked during boot process? 11:27:20 fifty times? 11:27:37 well, of course it depends on the system 11:27:44 Minimum user process ID is around 100 in general. 11:28:54 pjb: yeah, that's a good number to look at (the minumum PID) 11:29:22 the point being that shell scripts run too many external programs, for simple things 11:29:38 Well, unix systems are optimized for this use case. 11:29:55 But using real programming languages can help indeed. 11:30:37 «On my system the scripts in /etc/init.d call grep at least 77 times. awk is called 92 times, cut 23 and sed 74.» (http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html) 11:31:02 those are fortunately quite fast 11:31:03 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:01 yeah, and unnecessary 11:32:08 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32:58 jdz: IMHO it depends partially on whether you value the reasons behind the original approach 11:33:32 p_l: i like the approach; i hate the shell scripts 11:33:46 jdz: the shell is the essence of unix 11:34:04 jdz: fork(), exec(), pipe(). that's the way you do it there. that's what it does well. 11:34:09 jdz: the bourne shell is unwieldly, true. rc is a bit better 11:34:37 -!- Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-77-206.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 11:34:39 jdz: if you don't like it, long for the unix-haters handbook and amuse yourself 11:34:48 it's like PHP -- shell scripts just encouraga bad programming 11:34:58 encourage even 11:35:19 of course it is possible to do it properly, but so easy to get it wrong it's not even funny 11:35:20 yeah. 30 years of encouraging bad programming. and they've won. or windows 11:35:20 jdz: and implement a lisp-os which keeps the same mentality (being, one script for one task, easy to combine). 11:35:31 madnificent: no please. 11:35:51 H4ns: i was joking ofc, but why would you be opposed? 11:36:02 There are sh compilers. I guess some would "inline" some forked commands. 11:36:08 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:18 echo vs. /bin/echo ;-) 11:36:33 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:36:38 jdz: IMHO perl and various ideas related to "I don't want to write in korn shell!" were more encouraging to bad writing ;) 11:36:49 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:38:13 *maxm-* uses zsh personally, but that thing is too powerful. If you not careful, you'll find yourself not understaning your own scripts after a month break 11:39:16 but the plain fact that a="one two" ; program $a three will correctly pass args as "one two" and "three" is worth it 11:40:00 maxm-: go hunt for a good common lisp shell. you'll probably want to use the clisp trick and add clshell to that (if that was its final name) 11:40:26 madnificent: it's Clesh. 11:40:52 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:41:01 maxm-: are you sure? 11:41:19 maxm-: maybe you meant 'program "$a" three'? 11:41:41 jdz: about zsh? yes absolutely. In default settings that what zsh does, its its signature difference from bourne shells 11:42:06 maxm-: that's also one of the problems: keeping all the differences in mind... 11:42:28 *maxm-* has lots of zsh scripts for sorting/converting/tagging mp3 collections, so I rely on that feature extensively 11:42:30 jdz: a proper shell script is a bourne shell script. 11:42:37 [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:42:37 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host89-69-dynamic.182-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 11:42:37 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:43:45 H4ns: these days its a korn shell script :) 11:44:18 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:22 iirc korn shell was basis for the posix shell 11:45:33 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:46:18 -!- _KDr2_ [~kdr2@123.122.100.5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:06 -!- lars_t_h 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[~nick@AC8127E1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:32 rme [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 14:01:24 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:03:32 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:09:20 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:10:17 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:26 fe[nl]ix: hm? 14:12:47 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 14:12:48 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.34.168] has joined #lisp 14:12:49 how about putting that guy in read-only mode ? 14:13:02 Fare [~Adium@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:27 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129239249.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:15:30 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 14:15:56 i made him moderated 14:16:26 dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:44 :) 14:16:48 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit 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joined #lisp 14:52:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:54:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.123] has joined #lisp 14:54:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.123] has quit [Changing host] 14:54:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:55:11 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:23 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:55:48 -!- gigamonkey [~quassel@38.117.156.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:49 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:57:58 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:58:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:59:07 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.100.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:26 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:00:54 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 15:02:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:03:25 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:03:39 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:04:27 Xach: what are you trying to say? :) 15:05:36 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 15:05:42 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:06:55 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:07:06 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:08:00 H4ns: just saying we could get way more users if it was called Lispp! 15:08:26 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:41 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.58.205] has joined #lisp 15:08:43 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:08:43 why so? o.0 15:09:00 theos: sorry, it is a joke about the creative spelling in the venue for the next florida lisp meeting. 15:09:12 -!- espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2342.res.insa-lyon.fr] has quit [Quit: espadrine] 15:09:14 "champps" 15:09:17 oh ok :D 15:09:17 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 15:09:47 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 15:09:55 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 15:10:06 we get this much crowd onl because we are #lisp. people join thinking that its about lisp. but this is a CL channel :D 15:10:44 just one guy at #CL on the other hand :S 15:11:10 90% of them are bots 15:11:17 kmcorbett1 [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 15:11:18 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890515.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:11:19 oh noes :/ 15:11:24 fortunately they are AI bots in Common Lisp 15:11:27 thus on-topic 15:11:30 :) 15:12:58 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:13:01 arent those python bots spying on us? 15:13:12 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Quit] 15:13:57 Xach: let's do it! finally a compelling reason to make a revision of the common lisp standard! 15:13:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:14:04 fe[nl]ix: sure enough, he came again. 15:14:20 fe[nl]ix: now i have to tell him to go away. thank you for the suggestion :/ 15:14:39 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:48 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:36 i finally got time to learn CL. feels good :) 15:18:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:19:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:19:30 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:20:10 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:20:53 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:20:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:21:24 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:21:51 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.93.153] has joined #lisp 15:21:53 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:49 m7w_ [~chatzilla@31.24.92.84] has joined #lisp 15:24:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:24:13 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:16 -!- m7w_ is now known as m7w 15:25:11 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:06 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:27:48 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@37.99.87.123] has joined #lisp 15:27:51 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 15:27:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.123] has quit [Changing host] 15:27:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:28:25 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:29:27 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:22 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-385365.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:49 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:59 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:09 morning 15:32:13 NO U 15:32:17 hello slyrus 15:32:19 :3 15:32:23 hi 15:32:38 hey mvilleneuve, how's the hacking? 15:34:47 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:34:51 H4ns: thanks 15:35:12 stassats: perhaps you'd like to maintain [amateur] too? :) 15:35:15 slyrus: quite active at work, but currently no time for interesting hobby projects 15:35:19 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 15:35:39 fortunately, these days work gets done in CL most of the time 15:35:45 slyrus: that's #lisp 15:35:48 cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has joined #lisp 15:35:54 hah! 15:36:23 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:37:58 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:58 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:37:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:43:25 fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has joined #lisp 15:43:32 arrdem [~arrdem@europa.icmb.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 15:44:07 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:46:53 ha, my contract termination was the best thing that ever happened, now my work and hobby project is the same 15:48:13 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120222074758]] 15:51:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-210-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:52:13 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:54:58 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has 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#lisp 16:53:46 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:54:03 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 16:55:23 -!- fvw [~user@2001:da8:200b:2690:62eb:69ff:fe8d:a973] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:55:23 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:18 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.84] has joined #lisp 16:57:44 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:59:07 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:59:24 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.176.101] has joined #lisp 16:59:36 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-112-169.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:43 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:59:58 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:01:00 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 17:02:05 Hi, based on what do you chose a specific implementation? 17:02:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:02:32 whether i have a commit bit or not 17:02:58 francogrex: I chose CMUCL because other people were using it. Then other people started using SBCL. And now I am too afraid of change! 17:03:02 Also, SBCL is great. 17:03:04 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:06 I wonder if there is a tentative assessment of+ve and -ve bewteen different implentations 17:03:33 for me too, was just a habit of using sbcl 17:03:42 francogrex: daniel weinreb did a survey of implementations a year or two ago 17:03:44 use anything that builds on your system for testing :P 17:03:46 more seriously, i chose SBCL because it's fast and in active development 17:03:54 my second choice is Clozure CL 17:03:55 francogrex: it is mostly a summary of features and related info 17:04:14 Xach: yes that's good a summary of features etc 17:04:27 is on planet lisp archives? 17:04:28 francogrex: linux, heavy on math/floating point, research type stuff ie neural networks/ai etc, SBCL 17:04:39 francogrex: large codebase, windows -> ccl 17:04:50 francogrex: http://common-lisp.net/~dlw/LispSurvey.html is the survey 17:05:31 clisp not used it too much other then check my stuff compiles, seems more fragile then ccl / sbcl 17:05:38 and now that i'm familiar with internals of SBCL, it's hard to switch 17:05:49 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:06:18 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:06:33 also lets not forget, if your work depends on it, and also windows, then you may want to consider commercial lisps, both lispworks and allegro are excellent from what I understand 17:06:37 Man, CLISP is a pain  constantly get warnings like adding a method to a generic function that has already been called. How is that something that is reasonable to message in an interactive system? 17:07:00 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:07:08 I'm surprised that ccl isn't in some of the linux package repositories 17:07:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:07:23 I'm working however with 3 at the same time sbcl for routine, clisp for debugging and ecl to produce executables for delivery 17:07:27 Vivitron: The last time I asked about it, there isn't a standard/normal way to install Clozure CL system-wide. 17:07:50 Xach: Well, on OS X, there's the App Store ;) 17:08:00 who uses repositories for lisp anyway? 17:08:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:08:17 ah. 17:08:40 app store schmapp store 17:09:22 no insult to clisp authors, since producing full CL implementation is hell of an accomplishment, based on the current trajectory I think clisp will slowly disappear over next 5 years or so 17:09:51 Put ccl into /usr/local/src/ccl, copy script to to /usr/local/bin/ccl, done. 17:10:00 maxm-: just like CMUCL disappeared over the past 10 years, right? 17:10:17 rme: "/usr/local/src/" right. 17:10:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:10:53 That sounds like a good way. 17:10:57 sykopomp: well CMUCL/SBCL I would consider kind of same thing, since core of the compiler is still there from cmucl 17:11:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:31 maxm-: I hope clisp will not disappear, or that at least the strong features will be recycled to sbcl 17:12:02 sykopomp: and it has no alternatives if you want fast code.. But it seems CCL is in the same niche as CLISP (very fast compilation, slower code), and seems to me taken its place 17:12:13 francogrex: What are CLISP's strengths? I'm pretty ignorant of it, other than testing my libs on it. 17:12:18 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:12:29 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:12:30 CLISP can (in theory) be built with a C compiler, which can be handy. 17:12:33 debugger is one 17:12:35 maxm-: CLISP is more portable than CCL, it has a smaller footprint, and it works better as my command-line calculator. 17:12:36 ccl is faster and bigger than clisp in my experience 17:12:41 ccl isn't that much slower and only on some things (clos notably as i recall) 17:12:45 I have trouble getting it to build most of the time, but it's not too bad. 17:14:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.250.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:15:18 sykopomp: I had not considered it in that role actually. 17:15:25 i mean any lisp 17:15:49 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:16:18 xach: you have my sympathy, and I'd be glad to hear details, if you have/had trouble building ccl. I think the instructions in our online doc have worked for me every time, once I got the gist from the doc. 17:16:37 I always wonder what is the minimum expected from an implementations: full cl compliance, a strong FFI and that's it... nothing more 17:16:37 *maxm-* tried building SBCL with clisp when I accidentelly deleted my working lisp, and after around 2 hours gave up and downloaded binary 17:16:42 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:16:45 No trouble building ccl, I have trouble building CLISP. Mostly due to missing libraries like readline or libffi or libsigsegv. 17:16:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:16:54 ah 17:17:01 CCL is always pretty easy for me. 17:17:31 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:18:11 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.89.251] has joined #lisp 17:18:49 svn co from svn.clozure.com; exec the image; run the rebuild function. if all the prerequisites are in place it's a smooth install. 17:19:12 not so easy on android! 17:19:13 also, maybe FFI is not needed, one can add it as a library if just a full cl is there 17:20:11 francogrex: supports MOP, gray streams, is fast, exposes its internals in a nice way 17:20:16 stassats` is your android host lacking in system requirements? :) 17:20:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:41 kmcorbett1: no, but i have to cross-compile if i want to compile the kernel 17:20:49 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:21:09 and install the sdk and ndk 17:21:15 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:22:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:16 I should acquire a device so I can try it out. 17:22:29 anyway, its really a huge sign of a strength of a standard that so many implementations exists, and that stuff just works on most of them 17:22:38 it runs well on my phone 17:22:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:23:06 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 17:23:12 I'm seeing worse incompatibilities between different JDK variants then SBCL / CCL 17:23:49 It used to be worse. 17:23:50 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:23:52 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:23:54 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.123.98] has joined #lisp 17:24:05 stassats`: but if I have a cl implentation that is very basic, one can add to it the MOP support, streams, FFI etc, just by 'meta'programming it with cl no? 17:24:09 Sometimes it's funny reading old comp.lang.lisp archives to see what we now take for granted was often broken or implemented wrong. 17:24:26 interactive brokers TWS on linux with sun jdk -> complete lockup after 1 hour.. OpenJDK -> works fine, but login window it first shows is 2452 pixels in height 17:24:28 francogrex: see lisp500 for that 17:24:34 Paul Dietz's work really helped illustrate the situation. 17:24:40 francogrex: if you're not planning on doing anything useful in the meantime, yes 17:24:47 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tgabgxnbcpgawnbu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:24:48 yoklov_ [~yoklov@137.99.243.162] has joined #lisp 17:24:55 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has joined #lisp 17:25:06 Xof_: lisp500? 17:25:16 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:36 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:25:39 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:25:44 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:25:50 stassats`: yes of course I would prefer something that has it all, but in theory I mean having a basic fully compliant cl, will be enough to add the rest of the features 17:26:02 -!- CrazyEddy [~compassio@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:26:23 http://www.s2.org/~chery/projects/lisp500/lisp500.c 17:27:02 that's like a minimal cl? 17:27:04 Xach: like zero length arrays of type NIL? 17:27:19 i can't live without them! 17:27:35 stassats`: more stuff like Allegro CL not supporting :key in cl:reduce 17:27:37 and the like 17:27:42 -!- kmcorbett1 [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:44 francogrex: yes. http://embox.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/embox/third-party/lisp5000/init500.lisp turns it into a less minimal CL 17:27:49 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.243.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:27:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:27:51 CLISP's missing CLOS features 17:28:27 Xof_: cool 17:28:31 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:55 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:03 Xof_: I doubt it's high on compliance though! 17:29:21 "Ever wonder why it is customary to speak of the wildly different Common Lisp, Scheme, ZetaLisp, Emacs Lisp, etc. as though they were a single language? I would like to suggest that we start referring to C/C++, Java, Python, etc as ALGOL." 17:29:26 I've successfully built sbcl /w clisp as recently as a couple of months ago. 17:29:37 you want a fast machine for it, though. 17:29:47 Sgeo_: writing "C/C++" is already halfway there. 17:30:36 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:30:56 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:24 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ebmxdpluejavbycz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:31:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:32:30 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:32:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:33:26 Sgeo_: who is that from? 17:33:37 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:37 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:33:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:34:21 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:34:36 http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69 17:34:37 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 17:35:21 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:59 it's pretty common already to say things are 'Algol-like' or 'Algol-derived' 17:36:43 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 dlowe: like Scheme? 17:37:38 stassats`: I don't think that's commonly said, no. 17:38:06 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:39:12 Sgeo_: well, you can mostly run ZetaLisp and Emacs Lisp (and also LISP 1.5 and MacLisp and other lisp) programs in Common Lisp. http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 17:39:46 Sgeo_: furthermore, you can also run the same code in Common Lisp, emacs lisp and scheme: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 17:39:52 Blocked by URL filter 17:39:58 Sgeo_: so yes, one can speak of lisp, as one can speak of C/C++. 17:39:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:02 Xach: what do you mean? 17:40:29 Danish Police Accidentally Censor Over 8000 Sites As Child Porn ? 17:40:33 CrazyEddy [~autochole@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:41:03 pjb: because they used lisp? 17:41:48 Hmm, what is the easiest way to determine the current "week number" in CL? For example, we are (I believe) currently in the 10th week. 17:41:51 dlowe: Does local-time do it? 17:42:13 Sgeo_: the point of Common Lisp is to delimit the approximate intersection of all lisp dialects. 17:42:42 Xach: that should involve decode-universal-time I'd say. 17:42:44 CL is missing call-cc 17:42:46 :( 17:42:59 Sgeo_: #scheme is that way! 17:43:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:43:22 But I like non-fragmentation 17:43:47 Sgeo_: call-cc would have been nice, but it's not there. there are some libraries which offer some sort of continuations, but it's somewhat hairy. 17:44:12 Sgeo_: what do you use call-cc for? 17:44:15 There's a recent paper that reconciles call-cc with dynamic binding and unwind-protect. 17:44:19 to scare children? 17:44:26 sbcl would take over the lisp world if they added call/cc, but that would breaking a bropact 17:44:29 Sgeo_: it's not: http://lists.scheme-reports.org/pipermail/scheme-reports/2012-February/001824.html 17:44:31 Perhaps the next CL standard could include call/cc. 17:44:40 *H4ns* wished for call/cc yesterday to turn a callback based library into a pull based one. 17:44:44 Using a library that takes callbacks as though I could write straightforward linear code, is my main usage I have in mind. 17:44:44 UCW and weblocks would have been a lot cleaner if CL had call/cc 17:44:57 maxm-: sbcl has already taken over the lisp world, because they are fast and abide to the standard, not because they tried to move away from it. 17:44:59 Xach: don't think local-time does it. It can also differ based on how you count the weeks. 17:45:27 Fade: well, writing something in a way that is not supported by the underlying language and then wishing for the language to support that way is kind of the wrong way round, i'd say :) 17:45:41 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:45:54 Xach: ISO 8601 says that the week containing the first Thursday is the first week of the year 17:45:54 madnificent: i can't run SBCL on my phone 17:46:00 I guess. it is a useful way to write that kind of system, though. 17:46:03 dlowe: ah, interesting, thanks. 17:46:11 i'd vote for including call/cc in the next iteration of CL. 17:46:31 Fade: see that link ^^ 17:46:38 good thing i won't live to see that 17:46:51 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:47:00 snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:04 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:47:04 is that where the scheme guys are going on about removing call/cc? 17:47:29 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:47:48 yes 17:48:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:48:15 that makes me a little sad, but I haven't used scheme in anger in a very long time. 17:48:21 stassats`: your phone is not the world :) 17:48:43 madnificent: there are more mobile phones in the world than computers 17:49:02 stassats`: i was joking 17:49:07 Fade: did you always use call/cc? 17:49:20 of course not 17:49:30 sometimes? 17:49:40 yes 17:49:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.176.101] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:50:05 Fade: if it had a condition system like in CL, would you still use call/cc? 17:50:07 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:50:19 I believe so 17:51:16 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:21 I do remember seeing a thing by Oleg saying that delimited continuations are more powerful than undelimited continuations. 17:53:16 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:53:54 it was just linked to you 17:54:20 10-minute nostalgia 17:54:25 No, that's a thing referencing it. 17:54:34 Although the link is there 17:54:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:22 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55:30 I probably wouldn't have any need for call/cc if there was a CL implementation with microprocs/microthreads. :\ 17:56:38 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.176.101] has joined #lisp 17:56:45 -!- clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:57:34 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 17:57:44 cl-cont is _delimited_ continuations, right? 17:57:49 So... more powerful than call/cc? 17:57:49 yes 17:58:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:58:27 I don't know if I'd say they're more -powerful-. I just don't see a use for regular call/cc if I already have shift/reset. 17:59:25 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 17:59:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:41 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Client Quit] 18:00:50 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:50 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:00:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:01:49 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:14 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:03:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:03:48 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:03:55 all this continuation stuff is useful for mental gymnastics 18:04:27 stassats`: it's genuinely useful when you're dealing with asynchronous stuff. It really does make the code look much cleaner. 18:05:02 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 18:05:21 *stassats`* envisions a language with APL syntax, with monads, continuations, and whatnot 18:05:34 now, learning that would be something to brag about 18:06:04 "i'm so abstract it hurts" 18:06:18 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 18:06:32 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:07:24 10 key-strokes, bam, a clone of twitter, 15 key-strokes, bam, a facebook 18:07:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:07:59 graham would be proud. 18:08:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:08:58 If you put macros in it, I'll be interested :) 18:09:47 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.47.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:34 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has joined #lisp 18:11:51 Ttm: macros are for new abstractions, that language will have every abstraction imaginable so that you don't need to create your own 18:12:25 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:14 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:13:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:13:52 stassats`: but macros are an abstraction, no? 18:14:49 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:49 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:49 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:15:36 but you wouldn't need it 18:16:07 it's n ot about needing it. 18:16:09 Rational Rose and associated training is sold by IBM consultants that way.. Get your architect to draw it. Iterate. then press a button -> viola an e-enabled portal 18:16:11 not* 18:16:22 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:26 to leverage stuff with 18:16:47 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:17:44 so far i invented some syntax only for math stuff, i need to go broader 18:17:51 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:19:25 also about call/cc, what people want IMHO is not fancy stuff, dynamic wind this or unwind that. What ppl want is very basic, and explained like so: my thread has to wait for something... I want to reuse this thread and do other work while it waits. then i want to come back to this exact point I left of and continue 18:20:14 maxm-: + "And I want it to -look- like synchronous code." 18:20:23 the "do other work" is defined as starting from scratch from toplevel, then "getting back in" into the bathtoob, including all the handlers and etc.... That "do other work" exit is special and does not trigger any unwind protects or such 18:20:32 maxm-: but if you have dynamic binding and/or unwind-protect in the middle it's not easy to provide what people want. 18:20:35 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:21:06 microthreads/fibers are probably still a better bet there 18:21:10 so forget continuations and give us bloody microthreads. >:| 18:21:22 ruby went that direction due to less overhead and more intuitive use iirc 18:21:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:06 pjb: but isn't unwind protect is implemented in the end as just bunch of bound special variables? ie (let ((*unwind-list* (cons #'this-here-local-unwind *unwind-list*))) ..this-here-protected-code__), and then non-local-exit code simply runs all of them up to the point it jumsp to? 18:22:32 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:38 and as i recall you can implement call/cc in terms of microthreads if you really want those semantics 18:22:42 https://github.com/vpavlov/cl-fiber hmm 18:22:43 so why not just save the binding and control stacks, and restoring them 18:22:50 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 18:22:54 It's based on cl-cont though, so I'm wondering if it has similar limitations 18:23:31 Sgeo_: it does. 18:23:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:23:46 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:24:26 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:59 me actually had a very naive and dumb implementation semi-working, by dumbly copying the stack via various sb-impl:sap stuff, and it was successful in exiting and jumping back a few times 18:25:13 but obviously real implementation would have to be a vop 18:25:52 -!- shevy [~shevy@88-117-33-21.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 18:26:30 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@europa.icmb.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 18:26:40 -!- snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:27:08 ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:27:18 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-16.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:33:02 -!- yoklov_ [~yoklov@137.99.243.162] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 18:33:17 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:34:30 sykopomp: looks like an interesting way to write code that looks mostly sync, without using powerful constructs like fibers or continuations. 18:36:00 isn't that essentially a future value? 18:36:32 you just don't get thread reuse, which as i understand on some platforms (windows) is an issue 18:36:40 oGMo: there's no parallelism or concurrency in that. 18:37:14 pkhuong: in which? 18:37:58 (yes, according to wikipedia, at least, promise is a synonym for future) 18:38:01 oGMo: the link I posted. 18:38:08 pkhuong: right 18:38:24 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:32 oGMo: we like to reuse confusingly similar names in computer science. 18:38:47 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:26 pkhuong: i'm very much a fan of the future/promise concept .. one of the far-more-interesting-than-manual ways to do parallelism 18:39:33 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:39:56 Googling Common Lisp promises is not helpful 18:40:03 manual parallelism is like manual memory management, except far more error-prone 18:40:49 the promises in E or the link I posted aren't futures. The goal of these construct isn't to express parallelism, but rather to make programes that use async interfaces look like synchronous code. 18:41:17 pkhuong, that sounds exactly like what I want 18:41:23 Now, where's the CL library? 18:41:33 That link looks Java-y 18:41:33 pkhuong: i don't see how this differs from futures 18:42:26 oGMo: there is no parallelism in the link. How can it be identical to futures? 18:42:29 How do I grep quicklisp? 18:42:32 futures don't really imply or express parallelism, but make parallel computation look serial, and could be applied to i/o as much as threading 18:42:36 yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.72.36] has joined #lisp 18:42:58 pnq [~nick@ACA21632.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:21 oGMo: how do you implement futures without threads? 18:43:42 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 18:44:06 pkhuong: you don't need threads, just asynchronous or lazily-resolved values 18:44:13 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:44:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:45:20 oGMo: futures are also usually associated with a thunk from their creation. Instead, promises here are simply write-once, but anything can write to them. 18:45:26 "The promise is very similar to the future, the difference is that it is not possible to block upon it." <-- difference in this specification, though 18:46:13 oGMo: the interface is superficially similar. The implementation and goals are vastly different. 18:46:23 pkhuong: i disagree, they're essentially identical 18:47:04 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:47:38 regardless, it's neat, and you could do it in CL without much trouble 18:47:44 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.176.101] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:47:46 oGMo: implement both, you'll see the difference. 18:48:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:37 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:50:47 the only way I see to implement futures without threads will quickly explode stack usage when the program waits a lot on IO. There's a reason doug lea's JSR 166 doesn't support that use case well. 18:51:31 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:11 -!- sellout` [~user@setf.clozure.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:47 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-112-169.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:26 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-182-18.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.23] has joined #lisp 18:54:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:54 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:54:58 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: away] 18:56:16 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:16 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:56:16 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:56:22 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:57:18 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:35 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Colonel upgrade...] 18:59:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:02:13 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5CED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 19:04:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:54 pkhuong: these promises strike me as similar to plain old CPS with some Java flavor on top. 19:05:17 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:06:32 sbcl is compiled with threads by default now, right? 19:07:26 Hmmm 19:07:38 Threads in SBCL are expensive, apparently? 19:07:41 sykopomp: its hard to figure these types of setups out. I was initially very excited about lparallel (the cl equavalent of this) 19:07:51 At least on my system, the sample code http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?CommonLispThreads does crash 19:08:00 and thought 'wtf this guy found a way to do what I thought is impossible' 19:08:00 (loop repeat 590 do (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (sleep 5)))) 19:08:22 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 19:08:34 but then I tested it, and you can't really achieve fine-grained parallelism with it 19:09:12 Sgeo_: sbcl threads are native threads. 19:09:22 :( 19:09:26 *Sgeo_* wants Haskell-like threads 19:09:36 Configure your linux kernel! 19:09:47 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:50 does sbcl or ccl have the best threading support on freebsd? 19:09:52 Sgeo_: they are available. in haskell! 19:10:05 which of* 19:10:20 H4ns: sorry about the merge commit in the pull request. not sure how to get rid of that... 19:10:35 slyrus: rebase -i maybe 19:10:36 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:10:36 ? 19:11:02 sykopomp: they're nicer to use than CPS; see the code snippets in the other sections. 19:11:53 dekuked: I know that there are people using CCL and FreeBSD to do real work. 19:12:02 rme: there are such people 19:12:25 rme: (i'm one) 19:12:48 the closure docs say that the distributed kernel for ccl works only with freebsd 6 or through freebsd 7 compatibility mode 19:12:56 H4ns: I was pretty sure you did, but I didn't want to name names. 19:13:01 clozure* 19:13:15 rme: i'm the only one? :/ 19:13:26 Heh, no, there are others. 19:13:28 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:30 hopefully the docs are out of date and there is a better default binary? 19:13:55 dekuked: you're just a 'svn co' away from actually knowing. 19:14:02 dekuked: The ccl binaries are built on a FreeBSD 8.1 system. 19:14:04 I'm on os x 19:14:25 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:15:36 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:17:28 lispm [~lispm@g224045060.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.34.168] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.94.1] 19:19:03 TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5CED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:12 H4ns: new pull request done (hopefully) more properly 19:19:33 dekuked: If the distributed binary doesn't run on your system, just cd path/to/ccl/lisp-kernel/freebsdx8664 and type make. 19:20:06 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:20:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:21:59 slyrus: looks proper. what do you think about documentation? it might be nice to mention what this REPORT method is for, at least. 19:22:08 momo-reina [~user@e0109-114-22-19-191.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 19:22:31 slyrus: in the sense of "drakma supports the REPORT method so that one query *relevant reference* servers with it" 19:23:51 H4ns: I would kind of prefer that the method could be any string designator. I can imagine that it might cause runtime problems for e.g. typos. 19:24:30 daem0n [~yaargh@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:30 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:24:30 daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 19:25:14 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:24 H4ns: Ok. that will have to wait until this evening however. 19:25:33 I haven't looked at the code to see further implications, though. 19:25:48 e.g. if there is some dispatch on the identity of the method argument 19:26:00 I suppose there must be, for posting parameters. 19:26:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:27:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28:39 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:47 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8A96.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:07 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 19:29:22 Xach: perhaps also not looking for a body when requesting HEAD. 19:30:34 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-241.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:31:02 sensible 19:31:03 I'm just curious, I have only been playing around with ccl on my os x box, but I just want to make sure I don't run into many problems going with a freebsd9/ccl setup 19:31:14 but thank you guys very much for the clarifications 19:31:17 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:31:58 benny` [~benny@i577A8423.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:08 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.72.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:32:22 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 19:33:44 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:39 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-ixknunzyjobtjhby] has joined #lisp 19:36:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 puchacz 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#lisp 19:50:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:47 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-186666.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:51:14 not sure if any of you (awesome) guys are clojure fans 19:51:28 but I just put my clojure pastebin with code evaluation online 19:51:40 This channel is for Common Lisp. 19:51:46 if you care to take a gander: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3667954 / http://cljbin.com/ 19:52:00 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:52:01 Xach: yes I know, perhaps someone will find it interesting at the very least 19:52:13 gf3: Next time, please announce it somewhere clojure is the topic. 19:52:35 okay, sorry, dude 19:55:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:56:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:56:43 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:00 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has 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[~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 20:06:54 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5CED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 20:06:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:07:17 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:07:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:09:40 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 20:09:50 hey I was looking at cl networking libraries, why is there such a fuss about zeromq? udt seems better suited for most of the stuff people are using zeromq with, at least going by my primordial knowledge 20:10:02 mstevens_ [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:10:15 francogrex [~user@109.130.131.50] has joined #lisp 20:10:16 that or tsunami 20:10:22 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.50] has left #lisp 20:10:53 francogrex [~user@109.130.131.50] has joined #lisp 20:11:13 dekuked: 0mq is popular, because it is popular. 20:11:28 DataLinkDroid [~David@CPE-124-183-88-10.lns13.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:11:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:11:59 huh? I mean what attribute does it have that caused the initial rise in popularity? 20:12:25 *maxm-* had not tried zmq yet, but it looks promising.. My worry is how it behaves when there is a mix of other threads in the app 20:12:25 I mean I guess it's good, if you're limiting yourself to tcp for some reason 20:12:28 dekuked: i can't tell you, but as a matter of fact, it is popular and that is why there exist several lisp libraries to use it. 20:12:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:12:42 ie callback from qt thread doing zmq stuff 20:13:09 sure beats writing your own publish/subscribe stuff, which was my original plan 20:13:54 dekuked: from what I understand its not limited to TCP, it has in-proc, sysv IPC, and multicast 20:14:07 maxm: what do you mean? you seem to be using it for internal system communication? 20:14:48 oh, that does make it pretty interesting, I didn't know it was for ipc or that sort of stuff 20:15:05 dekuked: zmq has multiple transports, that look the same from API standpoint.. inproc transport is for zmq sockets withing same process, and it just passes pointes around.. ipc does sysv ipc, tcp does tcp, multicast does IP multicast (you send one packet, routers do the rest) 20:15:40 at least thats what I got from reading the manual 20:16:13 maxm: ah, okay that's pretty cool. I was thinking it was only for networking withing data centers, I had no clue it could used for that sort of stuff as well 20:16:47 dekuked: http://www.zeromq.org/ 20:16:49 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:17:23 dekuked: the home page has all sorts of information that you apparently don't have. so before discussing any further, can you get yourself up to speed with the basics? thank you. 20:17:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:19:32 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-185.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:22:52 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:23:17 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:23:52 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:27:17 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-170-209.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:52 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-170-209.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:28:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:30:35 sellout [~user@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:32 klltkr [~klltkr@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:31:38 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 20:31:49 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:31:55 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-170-209.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:32:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:33:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:34:26 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129239249.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:18 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 20:35:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:28 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:28 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:36:28 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:37:15 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:37:29 pjb: fyi, using :verbose t in quickload will show more compilation output 20:38:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:39:49 pspace [~andrew@c-24-5-81-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:53 -!- bsamograd [~user@184.71.240.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:18 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-25-16.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:40:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:27 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: yarr..] 20:41:28 /quit$ 20:41:32 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.131.50] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:42:04 If I'm in a restart-case clause, is there a way to tell it to try re-evaluating the protected form? 20:42:18 I feel like I should know this but the answer eludes me. 20:43:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:45:38 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.115.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:47 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129239249.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 20:47:47 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:47:55 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:48:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:48:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:48:49 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:32 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-31.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:34 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:47 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:11 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-241-156.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:33 -!- Phooodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:51:33 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:52:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.89.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:53:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:08 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.140.101] has joined #lisp 20:53:10 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:53:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:53:41 redline6561: you need to do loop 20:54:04 or use a "retrying" macro or something. that's what I was afraid of. 20:54:07 thanks maxm- 20:55:11 does having ~ instead of EQUAL and  instead of EQUALP sound logical? 20:55:18 *maxm-* finds default restart-case/restart-bind horrible too, have to re-read cltl2 chapter every time I have to use it 20:57:22 *redline6561* sighs 20:57:50 maxm-: this'll do - https://github.com/redline6561/paktahn/blob/master/src/util.lisp#L9 20:57:52 with-simple-restart helps 20:57:57 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:57:59 o_O 20:58:22 redline6561: oh hey, is paktahn still alive? 20:58:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:58:45 Ralith: heh. barely. 20:59:02 stassats`: I'd probably like to use ~ for complement ;) 20:59:04 it broke a while back, didn't get fixed for weeks, and I gave up and went back to yaourt 20:59:09 Ralith: lpolzer or I are making sure it doesn't fall behind whatever the current pacman/libalpm release is. 20:59:11 or bitwise not. 20:59:22 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:59:23 that's an improvement 20:59:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-210-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:37 redline6561: thanks, i'm stealing this for my utils lib 20:59:43 Ralith: it works right now. leslie's picked up since I lost interest, basically. I was trying to get some interested friends up to speed but that didn't happen in time. :-/ 20:59:45 maxm-: Sure. :) 21:01:45 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-147-175.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:02:28 redline6561: why do you need return-from? 21:02:57 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:09 ...stassats`: good point. That doesn't even need the progn because there's an implicit one inside the flet! 21:03:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:04:47 stassats`: not my code actually but I'm surprised I didn't notice that before. Thanks. 21:05:22 and show-result macro doesn't handle multiple values 21:06:19 (finish-output) == (finish-output *standard-output*) 21:06:43 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:06:56 stassats`: yeah, paktahn was and remains a bit of a mess. it's not a project I'm interested in anymore. Was reminded of that retrying util is all. 21:08:28 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:08:46 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224045060.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:08:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:09:04 ok, i won't read it anymore then 21:09:16 Probably a good idea. :) 21:09:30 Been hacking any hemlock stassats`? 21:10:16 not yet, but since dtc is adding some unicode to it, i might start sometime in the future 21:10:43 Cool. 21:10:54 *Xach* wonders if dtc will go to ILC in Japan 21:11:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:13:40 *stassats`* just updated emacs and cursed again at its window splitting changes 21:13:41 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.73.188] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:14:10 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:14:11 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:14:23 more and more reasons to migrate to hemlock 21:17:56 i need a Unified Lisp Experience 21:18:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:19:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:19:40 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-182-18.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 21:19:43 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:48 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 21:19:53 you should totally do it 21:19:56 don't be a wuss 21:20:00 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:20:06 i am 21:20:11 but it's a slow process 21:20:22 dan64_ [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:25 and neither hemlock.tty, nor hemlock.qt seem to work for me properly currently 21:21:55 i thought hemlock was the mcclim thing? or am I mixing it up with something 21:22:15 you are 21:23:32 and i'm not sure yet that hemlock is the right path to go 21:24:18 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:24:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:28:58 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:29:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:29:54 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-130-19.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:52 daniel__1 [~daniel@p508290E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:05 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.228.131] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 21:32:08 -!- daniel [~daniel@p50829C5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:03 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:07 *maxm-* is not sure about starting or contributing whole new editor project.. Emacs and Eclipse are a huge collective effort 21:33:17 AndChat- [~David@1.157.101.18] has joined #lisp 21:33:41 maxm-: not starting because there are huge, bad things are in existence is not the spirit of innovation either :) 21:34:01 stassats`: i think climacs exists because hemlock is not so tasty, no? 21:34:14 "exists" 21:34:26 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:34:30 climacs, tasty, hm... 21:34:39 H4ns: well if I were to select a project for myself, I would have gone with something like "source level lisp debugger".. So you can step through code like through java in eclipse, without the warts 21:34:49 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.228.131] has joined #lisp 21:34:53 maxm-: [ ] i need that 21:34:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:35:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@CPE-124-183-88-10.lns13.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36:24 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:36:46 i want a source understander, say, i run a function and it says LISC is undefined, and a restart "call LIST instead and replace LISC in the code with LIST" 21:37:04 i once made the first part for SBCL (CCL has it built-in), but the second part is harder 21:37:04 unfortunately looking at the speed I'm coding realistically, its impractical to start on it.. cost&benefit and so on 21:39:04 "unbound variable FOO, [RESTART] it appears you need LET* instead of LET" 21:39:14 now, that'd be cool 21:39:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:39:46 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:55 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:17 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:40:30 clang has something like that 21:41:14 I don't imagine it would be hard to implement with the right data structure 21:42:01 and it would allow for things like renaming variables and such 21:43:07 actually, the hard part would probably be interfacing with emacs to do the actual code rewrite 21:43:09 i also want a better fuzzy completion, which understand typos and context, like completing packages when doing (in-package ) 21:43:13 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 21:43:42 Ralith: i was planning on writing My Own Emacs 21:44:03 oh, well. 21:44:04 have fun! 21:44:22 yeah, planning is fun 21:44:44 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:45:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:46:52 -!- AndChat- [~David@1.157.101.18] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:47:09 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I'm flyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyying] 21:47:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:40 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:49:00 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:16 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:50:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:50:43 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:17 i also want to write ogg/vorbis decoder in CL 21:51:35 -!- dan64_ [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 21:51:39 and h.264 decoder 21:53:03 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@europa.icmb.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 21:54:09 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:13 -!- Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-184.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:54:20 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:33 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:51 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:05 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:55:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:56:12 snits [~snits@75-167-2-163.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:20 those would be interesting things to have written in CL. 21:57:56 so far i only have an ogg container parser, which can extract tags 21:59:58 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:45 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:02:01 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:39 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-213-12.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:39 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-213-12.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:02:39 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:03:09 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:40 codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.231.206] has joined #lisp 22:05:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:07:24 Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has joined #lisp 22:08:15 and it still works, took me 10 minutes to figure out how to use it 22:09:40 -!- bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:45 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:51 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-213-12.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:51 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-213-12.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:09:51 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:10:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:10:54 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:12:35 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.157.101.18] has joined #lisp 22:13:11 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:08 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@66.71.231.206] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:15:22 stassats`: on the same note of emacs helping you with code. i wrote a simple extension to slime which allows the programmer to supply 'bettur' argument lists for functions, than what the function actually accepts. for instance, some functions use &rest args, though they actually want a few keywords instead of any &rest. it could be cool to write something of the likes which knows which functions can be nested, as such pro 22:15:23 to limit the hints emacs supplies. 22:15:57 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:16:06 you got cut off after "as such pro" 22:17:22 as such providing a way to limit the hints emacs supplies. 22:18:23 it'd be nice if CL had some better way to express this common idiom 22:18:29 *maxm-* now feels much better about his git troubles, after finding a person more confused about git then me- 22:20:04 madnificent: and i don't understand what extension you wrote, because slime you can already do that for slime, and it's done, for example, for WITH-OPEN-FILE to provide parameters of OPEN 22:20:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:20:44 stassats`: how would i say that the arguments list of the function foo is not &rest ? i had to create a generic function, it seemed. 22:21:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:21:58 you write a method for swank:compute-enriched-decoded-arglist 22:22:33 it works, except uses some horrible weird matcher that took me a while to figure out 22:22:48 or for swank:arglist-dispatch, i don't really remember what's the difference 22:23:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:19 stassats`: it would have been nice if you'd been around when i asked this question instead of whomever started being an ass that i should dig into the source code. thanks! 22:23:37 See: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128159 22:24:16 its adds correct arglist highlighting for classes / methods / functions defined using (def function foo) or (def (function ) foo) syntax 22:24:22 will probably work with hu.dwim.def also 22:24:43 there are GFs extra-keywords, compute-enriched-decoded-arglist, arglist-dispatch, extract-local-op-arglists 22:24:51 only computed arglist-dispatch is exported 22:25:05 so arglist-dispatch is the one i should overrid? 22:25:23 probably 22:25:30 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Quit: dekuked] 22:25:50 somebody should totally rewrite swank-arglists.lisp 22:26:08 madnificent: in my opinion yes, thats the best entry point. I would do (trace swank::arglist-dispatch) and observe what it does for a few things, it should make it clear how you need to modify it 22:26:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:26:34 or you could just read the code, for say, with-open-file method 22:26:47 argh, i forgot that it uses compute-enriched-decoded-arglist 22:26:57 darn, it _is_ confusing 22:28:01 stassats`: i recall not finding a generic function for functions (but i did find one for macros) and i turned out hacking that in there. i shouldn't have started to try and do that without someone around that did know about slime. 22:28:07 maxm-: just did that :) 22:28:15 *stassats`* did M-x vc-annotate on it 22:28:19 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:28:26 and what's funny, that it was me who added (export 'arglist-dispatch) 22:28:45 maxm-: thanks for the example btw 22:29:06 why i exported it, and not something else, i have no freaking idea 22:29:49 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has joined #lisp 22:30:00 stassats`: you should have documented it! 22:31:05 that was almost two years ago 22:31:17 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:31 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:31:32 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:32:03 stassats`: there is nothing similar in which i can limit the hinted functions based on the forms surrounding it, right? 22:32:41 -!- kai_ [~kai@e179009223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:51 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:32:56 i don't really understand the question 22:33:00 -!- Jabberwockey is now known as Jabberwock 22:33:17 can you make example, code looks like X, cursor is at Y, and i want COOKIE 22:33:21 -!- Jabberwock is now known as Jabberwockey 22:33:47 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 22:35:10 he wants to match (arglist-dispatch situation === '(with-special-thingy (...) (...(some-foobar )))) 22:35:15 asume > is a package which contains functions for html tags, then (>:html (>:head (>:Y ))) should only hint those tags from the package > which can be nested in >:head (which could be >:title, but not >:body) 22:35:27 *maxm-* has this type of matcher on emacs side only, but my language for defining the situations is horrible 22:36:05 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:36:10 See http://paste.lisp.org/display/128160 22:36:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:38:10 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.123.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:38 *maxm-* uses it to make ) and backspace key ultra-electric, ie backspace before 1st form in the body of let, adds new binding in the outer let, and positins cursor inside 22:40:01 madnificent: not using any exported interfaces 22:40:03 -!- pspace [~andrew@c-24-5-81-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:40:24 it doesn't provide the whole shebang to arglist dispatchers 22:40:55 ok 22:40:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:42:10 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:42:50 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1274.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:00 and non-exported too 22:45:49 it doesn't even display (let ((list properly 22:46:01 but that's not that easy to do 22:46:21 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:46:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:56 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:08 or maybe it is and i'm just being lazy 22:47:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:47:31 maxm-: that's an interesting example too btw. though not swank. 22:47:49 stassats`: it's not that big of a deal, but it could be something nice to have. 22:48:19 madnificent: yea I need clean it up and release.. My point in posting it, that to do what you want, you'll need to come up with a method of identifying the what in paredit-magic I call "a situation" 22:48:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:48:39 ie specific syntactic context.. 22:48:50 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:10 i'm not kin on fixing it, i'll wait for My Own Emacs with superior code parsing technologies 22:49:20 you need two ways of identifying ones, one is the actual context, and one is how to speficy the matcher (ie the context that acts as a template matching against the real one) 22:49:33 maxm-: i was secretly hoping that someone figured out what to make that look like exactly. i would probably have chosen for some mix between regular expressions and a regex syntax, but that'd be dull too 22:49:40 "Your code appears to be ugly as butt. Delete it (y/n): " 22:50:55 stassats`: lol 22:51:11 thank god that isn't real. 22:51:21 you just wait! 22:52:15 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:23 stassats`: could it be that swank doesn't export a way to create a keyword argument. as in: i the struct swank-backend:arglist is exposed, but swank-backend::keyword-arg isn't. 22:52:36 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:53:21 ebw [~user@krlh-5f7221f1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:24 madnificent: it's exported because it's also a function 22:54:12 -!- gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has quit [Quit: LOLeaving] 22:54:43 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 22:54:44 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:55:11 stassats`: so i can override arglist-dispatch, but i don't receive the basic constructs so i can edit it? 22:55:21 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A8DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:55:36 well, nobody stops you from using unexported stuff 22:55:59 unless your colon key has a tax on the number of presses 22:56:12 -!- gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:56:15 it has! it tells me that what i'm doing is not supposed to happen. :) 22:56:31 nice pun 22:56:45 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:47 ah the word "key" ruins it 22:56:53 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:56:57 because it's not like it is guaranteed that exported stuff from slime will be there tomorrow 22:57:09 maxm-: no puns, we're not in a kindergarten 22:57:13 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 22:57:18 stassats`: slime doesn't hold to any of the common rules? 22:57:36 with common being: export those things which are expected to stay the same 22:57:49 it's not a library, really 22:57:53 I have a minimal mcclim application see http://paste.lisp.org/display/128161 but If I press one of the buttons, provide a string and press enter, it yells at me. Please explain what is going wrong. 22:58:03 slime only cares about itself 22:58:34 stassats`: i have unreturned love for it ;_; but thanks for the heads up. 23:00:39 ebw: can't reproduce 23:01:24 stassats`: I only did a (ql:quickload "mcclim"), maybe I did forget something? 23:01:41 wait, i can't reproduce the error, but i think it's not doing what you want it to do either 23:02:15 Ahh at first I just want to run it without error. :) 23:02:17 alright, i can, i just can't read 23:02:45 or better produce some working minimal app 23:03:31 but why clim? 23:03:48 it's kinky 23:03:51 ebw: how do you start the application? 23:03:53 H4ns It is my software archeology project :) 23:04:06 ebw: ah, that's a good reason. 23:04:13 madnificient: (run 'buttons) 23:04:37 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:56 H4ns What are you using for a decent gui in cl? 23:05:06 ebw: i'm not doing them :) 23:05:09 i'm using commonqt 23:05:29 ebw: i'm using web interfaces mostly. qt seems the new cool for native ui's though 23:06:25 stassats` I read that a C++ FFI binding can be difficult and awkward, how is it doing for qt? 23:06:36 magic 23:08:47 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 23:08:48 ebw: fails here too 23:09:32 Maybe I try the example in lispwork to see if it is a mcclim bug 23:12:39 if you use T, instead of *query-io*, it works 23:15:51 but anyway, i switched from mcclim to commonqt several years ago and never looked back 23:15:53 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:17:43 my chess interface still works 23:17:45 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:32 i should probably make a video of it, because videos are cool 23:18:33 that's strange, the doc for accepting-values at lispworks.com suggests that t and *query-io* are synonyms in this case 23:20:10 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:22:11 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:22:51 stassats` If there was a qt backend for clim, would you use clim again? 23:24:25 no 23:24:49 ok, i made a video! 23:24:54 url me! 23:25:11 encoding 23:25:53 url me too 23:26:37 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-186666.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:21 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:29:25 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:29:51 -!- daem0n [~yaargh@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Quit: o/] 23:30:40 (fighting youtube0 23:31:34 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.122.114.229] has joined #lisp 23:31:56 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.23] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:33:50 Xach, ebw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dv_mNE4AN8 23:35:29 i had to remember how to use it in the process 23:36:08 and the disappearance of pieces when i hover over them is a mcclim bug 23:36:32 Looks nice 23:36:36 a black dot is because i can't make a pixmap to move because of the same bug 23:37:00 and the debugger popping is when you move to the board from the interactive pane, a mcclim bug as well 23:37:21 ah sounds like hell 23:37:57 and the black dot appears to be off is either because my math is bad or another mcclim bug 23:38:29 just delete it and burn it with fire. People looking for CL to write gui, would probably be turned off from CL by looking at clim 23:38:48 sometimes you got to be realistic about these things. 23:39:08 i kinda like the interactive pane 23:39:44 when you can enter command and arguments will be selected by selecting a piece on the board 23:41:18 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:42:38 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-170-209.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:42:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 23:42:48 and the added white bishop appears for some reason only when i make a move, that's my bug 23:43:33 but you can actually chess with it... if you're stranded on an island without access to any other chess board 23:44:20 lol 23:44:25 but a computer 23:44:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:44:51 fukushima [~fukushima@z176.58-98-148.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:44:57 or you could construct one with paper and pen :) 23:45:38 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:46:49 i wrote it as one of "all existing X suck, let's write my own", but then abandoned because of mcclim bugs 23:47:00 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:27 i can probably reuse the move checking logic and rewrite it on commonqt, but i grew out of chess 23:49:38 RomyRomy [~stickycak@pool-74-108-167-200.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:22 imho chess does nothing but fill in one's kettle with useless info, those brain cells can never be reused for something else again 23:50:51 kasparov, fisher and other grandmasters being kooks other then chess prowess, shows it 23:51:35 -!- dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:51:35 thank you for your profound neuropsychological insights. 23:51:59 pkhuong: you play chess? :-) 23:55:11 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:10 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp