00:00:37 but as a recap, by the standard it's allowed, but in reality it's a bad idea. does that sum it up correctly? 00:01:30 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 00:02:00 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0D6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:04:06 Ashii [~Ashii@c-2457e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:05:03 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:09:36 vairav [~vairav@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:44 RomyRomy [~stickycak@67.217.136.82] has joined #lisp 00:19:02 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.97.229.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:20:56 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:00 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:23:43 sie [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has joined #lisp 00:24:01 rukubites [~user@d58-111-186-155.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:26:22 What's the best way to run cl from command line with sbcl? 00:27:33 from a dumped executable 00:28:22 _schulte_ [~eschulte@209.234.140.58] has joined #lisp 00:29:06 sie: the easy to understand quick and dirty way is by using sbcl's --eval argument. see man sbcl for some quick information. but using a dumped executable is faster. 00:31:29 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:23 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 00:45:27 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 00:46:19 KDr2 [~kdr2@125.34.51.55] has joined #lisp 00:47:27 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:49:50 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.98.207] has joined #lisp 00:50:34 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:50:55 -!- zophy [~zophy@ipv6postoffice.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:28 why does this work in repl but not inside a function? (with-call/cc 00:51:29 (format nil "~a" 00:51:29 (let/cc k (setf cc k) (funcall k "test1")))) 00:52:00 that's not Common Lisp 00:52:14 using cl-cont 00:53:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:10 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:54:28 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:38 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@129-97-120-181.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:30 -!- vairav [~vairav@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:01:03 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:10 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 01:03:53 -!- kai_ [~kai@e179014163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:06:38 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:07:04 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 01:08:34 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:19 kai_ [~kai@f052097114.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:09:32 dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 01:10:14 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:10:28 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@209.234.140.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:10:53 _schulte_ [~eschulte@209.234.140.58] has joined #lisp 01:11:06 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 01:11:06 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 01:13:54 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:16:44 CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.78.19] has joined #lisp 01:16:48 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@209.234.140.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:17:02 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:23:15 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:22 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 01:24:25 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.98.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:37 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:26:30 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 01:27:47 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:58 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:28:12 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:31:07 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 01:31:11 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:10 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:35:32 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:37:05 springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has joined #lisp 01:37:26 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052097114.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:30 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-254-58.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:34 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:25 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 01:57:41 ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has joined #lisp 01:57:44 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 01:58:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-34.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-34.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:01:36 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:10 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:46 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 02:08:24 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@67.217.136.82] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 02:08:33 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:10:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 02:24:49 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:06 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 02:26:29 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:26:42 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 02:28:52 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:49 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 02:31:58 What is the best Lisp for ARM? 02:33:57 ECL or clisp, I'd say. If you can go with armv7a and up, there's CCL 02:34:20 ECL and clisp should work on Cortex M-series, btw 02:34:40 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 02:46:08 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:49:44 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:51:28 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@59.106.108.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:53 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@59.106.108.114] has joined #lisp 02:54:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:56:31 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@59.106.108.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:59:07 kai_ [~kai@f052103156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:06:24 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 03:08:05 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052103156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:56 p_l: Which one is faster? 03:17:04 ecl 03:17:38 Aethaeryn: it should be more "would be" and not so much "is" 03:17:40 maybe equivalent in speed if using the interpreter rather than compiler (it needs a C compiler available) 03:18:05 Aethaeryn: common lisp on arm is not something that involves downloading a binary and then writing lisp code. 03:18:59 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 03:20:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-55-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:45 Harag [~phil@dsl-146-205-216.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 03:22:53 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:01 fe[nl]ix: does iolib have a way to do an async connect? 03:24:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:28:31 evening 03:28:35 fe[nl]ix: also, I'd like to discuss what might be involved in adding async support to the DNS stuff already present. 03:28:42 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f71c509.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:29:02 dys [~andreas@krlh-4d02b870.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:32 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-88-76.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 03:35:33 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:37:30 Ralith: (connect ... :wait nil)? 03:37:56 orite, forgot that was valid 03:37:58 is that in fact async? 03:38:08 or does that just fail if it can't complete instantly? 03:38:09 I don't know. 03:38:13 one way to find out! 03:39:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:42:05 -!- springz is now known as springz-lunch 03:45:53 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:48:10 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:49:53 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-iswtkyiuxtvsttla] has joined #lisp 03:52:19 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-171-202-150.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:33 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.37] has joined #lisp 03:55:30 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:58:55 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.83.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:18 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.86.39] has joined #lisp 04:00:05 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 04:02:14 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 04:04:20 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-120.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:04:35 fezghoul [~user@li221-11.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:19 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-34.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:06:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-34.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:06:49 sykopomp: to get iomux to stop listening to a fd, you just remove all handlers for it, right? 04:07:15 Ralith: you mean listening for new connections? 04:07:24 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.151.253] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:07:24 -!- nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:07:49 sykopomp: I mean doing anything at all. 04:08:02 I'm closing the fd, I want iomux to forget about it. 04:08:43 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:09:08 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:41 Ralith: iomux is a package, I think, which I never use. Are you talking about unregistering them from event bases? 04:10:06 ...event-base is in iomux, sykopomp. 04:10:31 Ralith: I just use iolib: when referring to it. :) 04:10:36 but I did mangle that sentence somewhat; yes, that's my meaning. 04:10:59 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA1310.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:11:08 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:23 in any case, I just remove the handlers i added to it, if any. 04:11:29 I figure that's probably enough. 04:12:04 hope so! 04:13:54 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0D6E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:14:02 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:42 sykopomp: hm, :wait nil seems to result in a no-op. 04:16:18 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:17:38 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:18:58 -!- springz-lunch is now known as springz 04:21:00 but the implementation seems correct... 04:21:05 it's just that my :read handler is never called. 04:26:00 oh herp 04:26:17 sockets are marked as *writable* on connect. 04:32:16 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:32:31 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A492A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:01 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:35:36 sykopomp or fe[nl]ix: what's the correct way to close a socket in a one-shot event bound to it? 04:35:45 I get warnings about failing to unmonitor. 04:35:52 I imagine I can workaround this by manually implementing oneshotness. 04:38:47 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:38:48 hlavaty` [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 04:38:50 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:55 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:19 any fset users around? 04:41:28 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:42:07 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:42:14 -!- fezghoul [~user@li221-11.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 04:43:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-64-100.cust.tele2.kz] has joined #lisp 04:43:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@m212-96-64-100.cust.tele2.kz] has quit [Changing host] 04:43:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:43:31 -!- dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:37 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:58 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:48:27 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:48:58 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:22 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:08 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 04:51:48 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 04:52:34 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:52:37 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:55:44 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 04:55:57 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:56:27 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 04:56:39 wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:32 -!- wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:59:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:00 hlavaty`` [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 05:01:27 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 05:02:35 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-iswtkyiuxtvsttla] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:04:28 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:05:09 -!- hlavaty` [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:05:22 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:06:54 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 05:07:37 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:16:21 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.16.102] has joined #lisp 05:19:16 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:29 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qernmotdbahpzyuf] has joined #lisp 05:20:19 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 05:22:49 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 05:24:02 dryman [~dryman@OpenISDM.iis.sinica.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 05:28:06 guess not... 05:29:44 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 05:29:54 Can anyone recommend a lib to perform URL encoding of CL strings? 05:30:04 one that's smart enough not to encode ASCII, ideally. 05:30:09 er 05:30:13 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:30:16 smart enough not to encode things that don't need to be encoded in URLs. 05:32:14 (com.informatimago.common-lisp.http.hquery:query-escape "abc def été") --> "abc+def+%E9t%E9" 05:33:00 (com.informatimago.common-lisp.http.hquery:query-escape "Happy? 1+1=2 def été") => "Happy%3F+1%2B1%3D2+def+%E9t%E9" 05:33:02 informatimago 05:33:11 Yes? 05:33:29 That is a lengthy package name 05:33:33 let me rephrase 05:33:42 Can anyone recommend a not-GPL-licensed lib to perform URL encoding of CL strings? 05:33:49 :-) 05:34:08 Ralith: warning if it's algorithm is too close I'll sue for GPL infrigement! :-) 05:34:34 pjb: and you'll get kicked for infringing on a proper RFC 05:34:40 ;) 05:34:55 You don't know your luck, I'll soon pass it to AGPLv3. 05:35:12 sunmix [~user@223.205.71.176] has joined #lisp 05:37:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-89.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:39:30 teggi [~teggi@123.21.170.206] has joined #lisp 05:46:29 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:47:24 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:52 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 05:53:31 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.154.96.55] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:55:20 smu 05:55:29 -!- CrLF0710 [~user@114.96.78.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:56 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:58:02 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:58:15 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:25 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:03:52 wakeup_ [~wakeup@p5DE8FE44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:56 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:13 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8FC80.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:05:58 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 06:06:52 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:07:12 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 06:07:37 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:07:39 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:21 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:46 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:22 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: .] 06:13:53 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.86.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:14:18 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:14:27 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.81.132] has joined #lisp 06:14:41 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:52 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:15:01 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:15:38 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:18:39 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:28 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 06:22:06 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:27 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:23:50 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA1310.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:26:55 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.67.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:28:02 Might Lisp cause laziness in coming up with good general-purpose abstractions? Considering how easy it is to make specialized macros, ideas for more generalized abstractions that aren't syntactic in nature might not come so easily. 06:28:23 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:29 As in, sure, monads can be done in CL, but would CL really have given rise to use of monads in programming if Haskell didn't? 06:28:57 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 06:30:35 Anyone have a suggestion for a more succinct predicate name than should-precede-p? 06:31:49 It's a predicate that returns true if one item should precede another in a priority queue. 06:32:52 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:09 before-p is probably sufficient 06:36:32 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:36:58 Is there any way to use cl-ppcre to extract a substring of a regexp match? 06:37:14 yes 06:37:14 foo\(bar\)baz => bar style 06:37:23 how? 06:37:41 There are many ways explained in the docs. 06:38:17 Look for "registers." 06:38:20 can you give me a keyword oh thanks 06:38:25 (defmacro ask-questions-in-irc-#lisp (vague-reference &rest rest) 06:38:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-19.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bed] 06:38:49 ) 06:39:32 should probably be a function :) 06:39:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:39:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:42:05 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 06:44:38 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-229-113.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:46:14 phadthai: WUT 06:48:20 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-159-88.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:49 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:760:d010:31bb:631:8a11] has joined #lisp 06:49:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:49:51 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 06:49:56 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:13 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:52:47 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 06:53:10 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:53:12 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:55:23 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:45 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:50 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.16.102] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:57:08 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.16.102] has joined #lisp 06:59:38 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:59:48 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-stowydaglrpkzghw] has joined #lisp 07:00:28 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 07:01:08 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.62.127] has joined #lisp 07:04:03 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 07:04:31 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host155.201-253-134.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:04:41 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:05:45 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:760:d010:31bb:631:8a11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:08:25 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:08:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:09:24 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 07:09:30 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: alvis] 07:12:28 hm 07:13:49 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:13:58 the regexp "(.*)", fed to create-scanner with :multiple-line-mode t, is failing when the .* contains newlines. 07:14:03 what am I doing wrong? 07:14:36 Using regexes on HTML 07:14:37 >.> 07:14:51 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.65.235] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:14:53 it's incomplete html. 07:15:12 it wouldn't parse with a real parser. 07:15:28 furthermore, I don't actually want to do any real parsing, just extract something that is plausibly the title with a minimum of effort. 07:15:49 Ralith: . doesn't match \n 07:15:57 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 07:16:03 "(.|C-q C-j)" 07:16:07 It should with... uh, single line mode 07:16:10 -!- springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:16:24 Ah, perhaps, yes. 07:16:29 ? 07:16:51 apparently 07:16:54 "Consider using "single-line mode" if it makes sense for your task. By default (following Perl's practice), a dot means to search for any character except line breaks. In single-line mode a dot searches for any character which in some cases means that large parts of the target can actually be skipped. This can be vastly more efficient for large targets." 07:17:22 oh come on 07:17:28 the one substring I didn't search for 07:17:33 welp, thanks 07:17:42 yw 07:17:48 But indeed, consider using a true parser. 07:17:54 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A983.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:16 It would be easier to call (element-contents (find-element doc "title")) 07:18:36 and saner. 07:19:26 pjb: do you know of a lighweight parser that can handle incomplete, possibly mangled, data? 07:20:06 Ralith: I wrote one a long time ago (so at most, html 4.01) but it will be AGPLv3 anyways. 07:20:21 Ralith: but you should reject mangled data 07:20:24 Correct it. 07:20:39 what makes you think I have that option? 07:20:49 :-) 07:21:11 LOL 07:22:31 If only I could reject my clients' mangled data out right! What a beautiful dream.... 07:22:45 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:37 *Xach* has returned from a nice Boston Lisp meeting 07:24:28 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:43 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.37] has joined #lisp 07:26:37 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:28:28 -!- sunmix [~user@223.205.71.176] has left #lisp 07:28:44 springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has joined #lisp 07:29:29 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pfeqizxshpfpzoff] has joined #lisp 07:31:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:31:41 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:31:56 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:21 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:38:38 -!- wakeup_ [~wakeup@p5DE8FE44.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:38:44 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8FE44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.62.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:18 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:42:14 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-173.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:25 -!- springz [~springz@199.119.206.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:42:45 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qernmotdbahpzyuf] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:44:38 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lsqqtbfbmvnyllrb] has joined #lisp 07:45:16 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 07:45:18 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 07:46:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:49:41 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:32 Xach: I thought slime was in quicklisp. I just installed and updated quiclisp on cygwin/MS-Windows-7 with clisp, and installed all the packages, but no slime. How comes? 07:52:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:52:58 It's not automatically configured, is it? 07:52:59 With: (map nil (lambda (system) (handler-case (ql-dist:ensure-installed system) (error (err) (format *trace-output* "~&~A ~A~%" system err)))) (ql-dist:provided-systems t)) 07:53:14 When quicklisp-slime-helper installs, it tells you what to put in .emacs iirc 07:53:16 Sgeo: I don't think so. Anyways, where-is-system gives nil. 07:53:36 Are you on Windows? 07:53:39 Oh, yes 07:53:51 Does emacs and your REPL have the same idea of what ~ means? 07:53:57 (Had that problem) 07:54:04 Although it wasn't on cygwin 07:54:15 Installing quicklisp-slime-helper seems to help :-) 07:54:21 I tend to do things manually 07:54:46 Oh, off-topic 07:54:55 Remember the (setf *readtable* nil) thing that didn't work 07:55:15 Duh! Obviously, slime is not in CL, it's swank :-) 07:55:28 blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 07:55:30 On a Windows computer at school, I tried it on Clozure CL, weird errors abound. 07:55:40 Let's see if I get that on my Linux machine 07:56:00 ...I don't have ccl installed? 07:56:08 Oh, let me go into wherever LispBox was 07:56:36 ccl works well. Even on MS-Windows. 07:56:48 Yay 07:56:52 Same error 07:56:56 Recursive printing error 07:57:12 It can't even print the error properly, apparently. 07:57:24 Which is weird, because I'd imagine that a readtable is not a printtable 07:57:32 You can do that, if you make errors in print-object or the :report functions of your conditions. 07:57:50 There are slots int he *readtable* that are used at print time. 07:58:09 Read the Chapter 22. 07:58:21 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128099 07:59:12 Anyways why do you break it? 07:59:15 It's all your fault. 07:59:20 Because it's fun! 07:59:24 Why do you set *readtable* to a non-readtable object? 07:59:37 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:59:43 Just like Object become: nil. in Smalltalk. Although that's boring, it just crashes the VM 07:59:57 springz [~springz@116.231.107.88] has joined #lisp 07:59:57 It's fun to do weird stuff! 07:59:58 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:00:09 good morning 08:00:14 Hi mvilleneuve 08:00:46 Sgeo: read http://www.xach.com/lisp/lispvan-2008-02-28.pdf 08:01:24 pjb, OOOOOOOOH 08:02:24 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 08:02:41 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 08:02:41 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 08:02:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:57 is it just me or does ccl:save-application not respect :error-handler :quit? 08:03:21 pjb, that's all practical stuff 08:03:28 Well, semipractical 08:03:28 Ralith: I didn't try it yet. 08:03:43 Common Lisp is apractical programming language too. 08:03:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:04:12 pjb, but what fun is practical evil? 08:04:42 I think I'm just looking for more (setf *readtable* nil) like stupidity 08:04:58 Hmm, I think (setf *features* nil) would really only affect things loaded in later. 08:05:01 (setf nil 't) (setf t 'nil) 08:05:18 Some implementations let you do that ;-) 08:06:06 Not SBCL 08:06:33 Nor ccl 08:06:56 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:08:22 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:09:09 Why does reduce have a key argument? 08:09:22 Wouldn't passing in a list that's mapped over work just as well? 08:09:24 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:50 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:58 You would have to cons a temporary list. 08:10:08 Sgeo: CL primitives don't work with futures. 08:10:20 Sgeo: but you can write your own lazy library. 08:11:32 echo-area 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[~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 08:21:00 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129016166.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 08:22:33 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8FE44.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22:53 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8FE44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:26 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 08:25:43 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 08:26:45 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:27:52 in fact, instead of quitting, it locks up 08:27:55 has to be killed 08:27:55 :/ 08:28:35 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:30 tiglog [~topeak@117.79.233.194] has joined #lisp 08:30:46 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:31:24 -!- tiglog [~topeak@117.79.233.194] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:31:50 tiglog 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[Client Quit] 09:19:40 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:40 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:20:29 -!- k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:20:29 k9quaint [~k9quaint@unaffiliated/k9quaint] has joined #lisp 09:21:04 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users68.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:23:56 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.1] has joined #lisp 09:30:05 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:34:35 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:38:01 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:12 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:38:15 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:39:09 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:20 -!- dan64 is now known as Guest8542 09:39:42 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 09:43:54 -!- Guest8542 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:44:08 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:44:30 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 09:44:38 thom_logn [~thom@pool-173-60-243-134.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:34 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:54:01 there is a terrible slowly install from quicklisp.lisp's (:install) 09:56:37 Stupid observation: Assuming that n is a number between 2 and 36, (setf *print-base* n) will return a value that, when printed, looks like 10 09:57:01 every base is 10 09:57:08 1 is not 10 09:57:43 Hmm 09:58:08 ! 09:58:14 It let me set base #C(2 0) 09:58:27 Or, er 09:58:29 try to 09:58:52 Sgeo: read "hacker's delight", they're discussing base -2 and #c(-1 1) there 09:58:53 Real part goes first, ok 09:59:16 #C(2 0) is 2 09:59:17 man only active threads on comp.lang.lisp are by xah lee, that guy becoming timecube.com guy of emacs and lisp 10:00:44 I should go eat 10:00:52 good to know 10:01:01 Need to tutor some Smalltalk person tomorrow 10:02:30 maxm-: I wouldn't know, I killfiled him a long time agoo 10:02:40 maxm-: otherwise, you're right, it's calm. 10:03:08 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:22 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 10:05:14 In SLIME, can I restart the REPL? 10:05:22 Say, I messed around a lot, and want a clean slate 10:05:22 ,restart 10:05:35 Cool, thanks 10:09:29 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 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dan64 is now known as Guest55517 10:40:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:57 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:41:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 10:41:24 silenius [~silenius@i59F73595.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:42:40 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:43:31 -!- Guest55517 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:44:02 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 10:44:30 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.0.84] has joined #lisp 10:45:12 is there an easy way to append or prepend something to a stream? 10:45:44 what does that mean? 10:46:01 if say, I open a file stream, but I want to push a #\Newline onto it, so that the first character read from the file isn't actually from the file but a #\Newline 10:46:06 dan64_ [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:15 can't do that 10:46:17 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.0.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:47:13 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:24 -!- dan64_ [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:45 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.0.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:49:06 even with unread-char? 10:49:27 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 10:49:28 especially with unread-char 10:49:55 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 10:50:21 why do you need the newline? 10:51:04 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 10:51:20 wakeup: i know one way to do that, but i won't tell you until you answer why do you need to do that 10:51:34 then I suppose you can use make-concatenated-stream. 10:52:18 tfb [~tfb@92.40.17.254.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:52:52 I parse source code with included libraries by using make-concatenated-stream, when a source file ends with a ;comment without terminating newline, results can be surprising 10:53:50 then your parser is broken, fix it 10:53:50 the solution is to ensure that source files always end with a #\Newline, either by static analysis or automagic 10:54:04 this is a stupid solution 10:54:12 it's not broken 10:54:32 you just said it is 10:54:52 well ok, I could parse files seperately instead of concatenating the streams 10:55:07 the source file concatenation is broken 10:55:25 just define stream-only-containing-single-newline.. and contcatanate it between files 10:55:26 why do you concatenate them in the first place? 10:55:26 TheTom [~tom@80.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:50 Can't you make your concatenator ensure that there's a newline? 10:55:51 probably trying to make separate files faster by making them into a huge (labels) form 10:56:02 ala CMUCL block compilation 10:56:18 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:26 Or is that a bad idea? 10:56:44 Sgeo: he can 10:56:50 but the whole things smells fishy to me 10:57:51 :) 10:58:10 experimental, fishy, whatever works for you 10:58:26 dan64_ [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:26 neither 10:58:47 Experimental and fishy are not synonyms 10:58:53 why so serious? I'm not earning money or anything 10:59:16 #lisp are full of grumpy old farts that done it alll 10:59:20 It's better to learn and use the proper way to do things 10:59:26 -!- dan64_ [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:41 have to be careful, as they hold grudges :-) 11:00:04 yeah I like them for their grumpyness but sometimes it's tiring 11:00:47 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:00:51 i like how you talk about me in plural 11:01:00 wakeup: to the point, I think "concatenating files into a single stream" is something that at first seems like a good idea, but probably isnt 11:01:17 yeah I agree 11:01:26 or can be done in a simple way, have you considered (with-output-to-string) then read all the files and terpri after each one? 11:01:43 plus you'll be able to analyze files from a in-memory string, making final analisys faaster 11:01:57 and you can always use with-input-from-string to make it into a stream 11:02:09 I would not worry about memory, as rarely you'll have 100 meg of sources 11:02:13 (make-concatenated-stream stream1 (make-string-input-stream (format nil "~%")) stream2) 11:02:21 Dear Chrome: When I search for terpri in l1sp, the page is not in Indonesian 11:02:29 pjb: i'd have (string #\Newline) 11:02:48 *Sgeo* blinks 11:03:01 Why is terpri called terpri? 11:03:01 You may want something more, but all right. 11:03:07 terminate printing. 11:03:18 pjb: but that's just promotion a bad solution 11:03:21 promoting 11:03:31 *Sgeo* mutters something about old function names 11:03:34 see, they key to getting help from lisp, is to ask for a help with a very specific problem, without explaining what it is for 11:03:46 possibly bad, wakeup doesn't want to disclose what he's doing 11:03:48 =) 11:03:58 Sgeo: Line printers or card punchers worked line by line. You didn't get any visible output until you terminated the of printing of the line. 11:04:01 kai_ [~kai@e177088230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:05 then ppl take it as a challenge to give you solution. But if you give out too much (ie what you doing it for), they would rather critisize that as stupid, instead of giving solutions 11:04:22 I am writing a *TOY* lisp dialect that compiles to C. 11:04:22 stassats`: it's pseudo-code. 11:04:37 wakeup: we already have several professionnal CL implementations compiling to C. 11:04:49 what the fuck 11:04:52 pjb, so? 11:05:05 what the hell do I care if you have a CL implementation in BASH 11:05:13 pjb, why can't someone do their own thing for fun? 11:05:13 wakeup: better 1- implement a subset of CL (there's nothing toyish in that). 2- target a more interesting language, such as javascript or bash. 11:05:22 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:30 what the fuck 11:05:40 Sgeo: fun and useful is better than fun and useless 11:05:51 fucking javascript???? 11:05:57 wakeup: you can stop saying that 11:06:01 wakeup: would be cook if CUDA would be a possible target, too ;) 11:06:04 wakeup: nobody careabout toys generating C code. Somebody is interested in a CL targetting other languages. 11:06:10 if pjb stops shitting in my head 11:06:17 wakeup, stop it or you'll get banned. 11:06:22 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:06:23 wakeup, we do not appreciate that tone in #Lisp 11:06:27 yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has joined #lisp 11:06:28 but this is totally uncalled for 11:06:31 wakeup: yes, fucking javascript. Hence the CL to javacript compiler, so that you can write CL when you ahve toproduce javascript! 11:06:36 wakeup, your language is uncalled for. 11:06:44 I do not appreciate the tone oof wakeup. 11:06:45 wakeup, I agree with you up to and entirely excluding the point where you're swearing at people. 11:06:49 I called for it and I got it 11:07:04 Sgeo: thats nice, thank you 11:07:07 now nobody will take you seriously, good job 11:07:19 it already compiles 11:07:27 Im done already, basically :) 11:07:33 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 11:09:35 good job. IMHO the concept of "use lisp to generate C/C++ source" is not stupid, and can be useful. If done right and wrapped, so that generated C/C++ code is compiled into a shared lib, which you can seamlessly load and call into with ffi 11:09:42 I found a bug in slime! :-) 11:09:58 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:00 pjb: what is it? 11:10:07 maxm-: I didn't say that it was stupid. I said it was overdone. 11:10:11 can imagine using it for something like (def-high-performance-math-stuff (lispy math time series calculation) ) 11:10:23 Beside ecl and gcl, there are various Lisp to C translators. 11:10:49 pjb, know of any often used? 11:10:55 On the other hand,we doon't have any implementation targetting .NET or Javascript or a ton of other. 11:11:02 tic: ecl is used. 11:11:13 pjb, ah yes. *hmm* I was thinking something more light-weight. 11:11:20 maybe I should write it myself some day. 11:11:30 there aren't that many keywords in C anyway. 11:11:49 it's hard to make a high-performance lisp implementation targeting C 11:16:39 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:16:58 i would prefer a minimal subset-of-CL to c/c++/cuda, don't need any clos ;) 11:17:23 trebor_dki: https://github.com/angavrilov/cl-gpu 11:21:43 tfb_ [~tfb@92.40.118.224.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:21:50 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.17.254.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:21:53 pjb: I did not appreciate you tone either. You should consider not judging the usefulnes of things you have nothing to do with, as you can not imagine how useful it is for other people but yourself, including the creator. 11:22:09 -!- tfb_ is now known as tfb 11:22:31 why can't pjb judge the usefulness of anything? 11:23:57 he can, but then he wiill eventually hurt peoples feelings 11:24:21 then people shouldn't be so touchy 11:24:23 *Sgeo* will not be offended if he judges (setf *readtable* nil) as useless 11:24:33 Although actually it's not useless, in that it's educational 11:26:03 stassats`: you just don't get the idea that you can not decide how other people should be do you? 11:26:17 wakeup: if you think other people should not judge the usefulness of stuff other people do, then you should not judge their opinions 11:26:40 wakeup: several lines above you were trying to decide that, go figure 11:26:51 -!- krrrcks [~dbr@mail.systemhaus-brunner.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:27:06 *jdz* fetches some popcorn 11:27:06 KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.157.29] has joined #lisp 11:27:10 stassats`: you should be familiar with recursion 11:27:25 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 11:28:31 k1o [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:28:44 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aqasmtoljzydawyw] has left #lisp 11:29:42 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F73595.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:16 wakeup: you're a dick. Here is what I said: " wakeup: we already have several professionnal CL implementations compiling to C." There's no "tone" there! 11:33:09 pjb: you told me to disregard my current efforts and do X instead, thats alot of tone for me. 11:33:11 I understand it is disagreable realizing one has been working hard to archieve something already done, but it's a fact of life, deal with it! 11:33:23 You reacted after that first sentence. 11:33:40 because I expected what was coming 11:33:51 *plonk* 11:33:57 it's not the first time I see you around 11:34:05 If you were expecting it then you're a troll. 11:34:34 +1 on pjb 11:34:42 wakeup, that could be because pjb is a long-timer. 11:34:54 and I'd wager a lot more experienced than you... 11:35:07 I know pretty well what I do and why I do it. I just expect you to not judge wether my eforts are useful to ME 11:35:23 then #lisp is not for you 11:35:24 tic: experienced in what? 11:36:10 wakeup: don't argue, do you thing and prove him wrong 11:36:47 its just ridiculous to say: "Dont write a compiler that compiles to C. Compilers that colpile to C are not useful." 11:37:09 I don't have your context 11:37:11 it's not ridiculous, i concur with this statement 11:37:12 its just his opinion, he has the right to it 11:37:18 in the end only thing that matters is code 11:37:19 and I don't want to have it 11:37:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 11:37:56 did you come here to be comforted? or to receive advice and criticism? 11:38:02 isn't there a rule about metadiscussions being even worse than offtopic? 11:38:24 and listening to criticism about stuff may cause you to think of unexpected things, and be very useful 11:38:40 cmm: your question is a meta-discussion! 11:38:43 krrrcks [~dbr@mail.systemhaus-brunner.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:45 I love this channel for your guys advice and help 11:38:48 uits awesome 11:39:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.203.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:39:15 but sometimes I'm shocked how socially ignorant peopel are, sorry for my swing at you 11:39:33 I will continue writing useless code now 11:39:39 it's a lot of fun 11:39:54 did you know how much fun it is to write useful code? 11:40:17 fun = useful 11:40:21 How about code that's only useful to a small community? 11:40:29 I have a lot of plans in mind regarding that 11:40:59 the grumpiness is even, a new guy coming in asking how to write a function counting number of a's in a list, generates pages upon pages of encouragement 11:41:13 guy comes in writing a compiler, and is called useless 11:41:27 Sgeo: if it's written in CL, discuss it here, about its implementation. Otherwise discuss the software on #your-niche 11:42:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:43:08 maxm-: because it is useless? 11:43:58 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:02 not in my opinion. I learned a lot writing compilers from forth to lisps to various other things 11:44:11 also, there are countless toy lisp dialects 11:44:38 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:44:46 all must have been fun for the authors 11:45:01 SBCL is my favorite toy lisp compiler 11:45:01 and no, i have no point 11:45:49 stassats`: it's "toy" "lisp compiler", not "toy lisp" "compiler" :) 11:45:57 *Sgeo* is thinking of throwing another one into the mix 11:46:05 its as good of a project as any, for learning stuff. One can't immediately go and write useful thing, without practicing first 11:46:24 (Implemented in LSL, the scripting language used in Second Life) 11:46:28 maxm-: Chuck Norris can! 11:47:14 you can practice by writing useful things 11:47:26 the code might not be stellar, of course 11:47:39 Do esolang interpreters count as useful? 11:47:42 In your opinion. 11:49:16 -!- TheTom [~tom@80.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:49:21 useful for what? to do anything practical? utterly useless 11:51:22 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-210-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:52:22 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:32 I'm looking for a web server that's easy to get started with in Lisp, think almost the Lisp-equivalent of PHP: receive request, process, output html 11:53:53 hunchentoot fits the bill 11:53:57 tic: that is what hunchentoot does. 11:54:17 Ah, so that's still the fashion? Thanks 11:54:51 Of course it's ediware 11:54:56 nothing changed while you were slacking from your #lisp-duty 11:55:14 turning into fidel castro of web servers 11:55:36 it cl timeframes :-) 11:56:21 stassats`, :)) 11:56:44 I got an idea for a small project which would be suiting. 11:57:59 *Xach* waits to see what the big alexandria update breaks 11:58:13 There's a big alexandria update? 11:58:30 A lot of +++s in "git pull" 11:59:15 Sometimes I think that CL is a small community that is excessively reliant on a few individuals. 12:00:07 on what should it rely instead? 12:00:47 More maintainers for various crucial libraries? 12:01:15 can you fill that role? 12:02:48 Grmbl. SLIMV doesn't play well with Quickload. 12:03:01 tic: how so? 12:03:32 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:03:57 Xach, not sure what's causing it -- this in my REPL: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128101 12:04:33 tic: you're still using vim! 12:05:11 stassats`, I am! 12:05:13 tic: does slimv use recent swank? 12:05:35 stassats`, I'm not sure. Probably not! I'm looking in slimv.vim to see how it starts SBCL. 12:05:53 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:06:01 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.1] has joined #lisp 12:06:05 that error happened in the past when loading slime-presentation-streams contrib 12:06:14 Ah, cool. 12:06:25 I think it uses its own slime. 12:06:32 i.e swank 12:07:01 if you can tell it not to load this contrib 12:07:08 there's a ~/.vim/slime. And I'm thinking I should be using the one Quicklisp has installed for me, right? 12:07:12 Yeah, I can do that as a workaround. 12:07:16 *tic* finds 12:08:08 grep can't find anything loading it directly. 12:08:11 or ultimately, loading sbcl-pprint-patch.lisp file 12:08:44 whoever though that it'd be a good idea, i don't know 12:09:00 who ever 12:09:05 *hmmm* 12:09:21 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:10:26 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:00 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:11:51 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:52 yay! 12:12:02 I disabled the bundled slime from SLIMV and pointed it to the one in Quicklisp. 12:12:06 :) 12:12:23 does it work? 12:12:45 I quickloaded hunchentoot without errors, so I'm guessing it does. 12:13:14 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.118.224.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:14:41 what's the ql equivalent of (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op ...) ? 12:14:56 quickload 12:15:09 and asdf:load-system is a new way for asdf 12:15:55 I'm looking at the hunchentoot docs. It says (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :hunchentoot-test) 12:16:06 Hm. That worked. 12:16:27 tic: hunchentoot-test must be loaded after :hunchentoot, maybe that confused you. 12:16:57 H4ns, can I use (ql:quickload "hunchentoot-test")? 12:17:05 yes 12:17:18 as well as (asdf:load-system "hunchentoot-test") 12:17:35 they're equivalent, save for different output 12:17:50 load-op :hunchentoo-test, according to docs, seems to start the test directly after loading. 12:17:59 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:18:11 tic: does the doc say that? 12:19:25 H4ns, Yeah. """Enter the following into your listener -- (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :hunchentoot-test) -- Now go to "http://127.0.0.1:4242/hunchentoot/test" and play a bit.""" 12:19:28 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Client Quit] 12:19:52 maybe I'm misunderstanding something. 12:20:17 the land of list is such a fine book 12:20:23 s/list/lisp 12:21:08 tic: it says other things before that, and they are the prerequisite. 12:21:37 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:21:41 tic: it could be more explicit about that, but you're the first to report that it could be misunderstood. 12:21:50 tic: patch welcome 12:21:53 H4ns, :) 12:21:57 Yeah, worked now. 12:23:21 Which is the official Ht repository? 12:23:51 tic: please read the documentation before sending patches to it. 12:24:01 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:24:26 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:24:29 TheTom [~tom@80.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:48 H4ns, I did that, found a part that was slightly unclear, and you told me patch is welcome. Isn't it now? I'm confused. 12:24:57 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:09 tic: the documentation also contains a pointer to the repository. 12:25:22 H4ns, says unofficial. I don't know which the canonical one is. 12:25:32 rather, many repos. 12:25:54 Nevermind. Sorry for the noise. 12:26:00 *tic* heads off 12:26:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:16 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:30:51 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:30:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:31:30 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:32:00 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:32:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:34:15 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:37:17 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:37:41 luis: finally merged your commonqt request 12:39:01 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host155.201-253-134.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 12:39:26 now, they're left ivan4th commits 12:39:29 for some other time 12:39:35 and where's lichtblau? 12:40:24 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:40:54 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:44:11 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:44:34 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:44:34 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:44:58 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:45:20 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Client Quit] 12:45:56 *maxm-* is actually preparing to publish his commonqt branch, whos the official maintainer? 12:46:14 and what the preferred format, many small commits, or a blob? 12:47:06 lichtblau is the original maintainer 12:48:16 futures wise my changes are: 1) around 10x performance increase in calling qt methods 2) more marshalling, specifically for QVector and QVector, as well as QPolygons and QPolygonsF 3) printing of QPoint, QPointFS, QPolygons and QVectors of them, and QSizes showing teh data,ie # 12:48:17 I and ivan4th also have commit rights 12:48:30 but i wouldn't commit anything substantial or controversial 12:48:38 so whats the official most recent repository I should rebase against? 12:48:46 *maxm-* branched off around 7 months ago 12:48:50 gitorious 12:49:03 ah cool, thats my origin 12:49:24 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:49:53 i'm not yet up to par how to handle merging and stuff 12:50:11 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:50:15 well I learned a new thing today, that is once you published, never use rebase 12:50:20 and i think i just diverged my repository with gitorious, oh well 12:50:29 or you will be merging same confict forever from there on 12:51:04 rebase => only for local stuff, once you published and at least one person got it, then you can only merge the master, and never rebase off it 12:51:09 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 12:52:27 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:32 i'm interested in your changes, when will you put it on github? 12:52:33 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:48 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:53:56 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:54:17 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:33 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 12:54:33 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:55 hopefully this week, as I have to take out the logging I sprinkled around and the controversial marshalling (the vectors of lisp complex into QVector) 12:55:05 -!- TheTom [~tom@80.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:55:44 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:56:47 also need to add a test for teh speed improvement 12:58:14 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:59:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:59:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:01:19 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-173.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:29 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:02:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:02:22 ASau` [~user@95-27-150-185.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:02:23 cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has joined #lisp 13:02:59 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:03:39 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:04:02 fdhsfdsgdsg 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[~wuj@rrcs-50-74-152-202.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:41 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:27:33 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:28:25 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:28:26 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:28:46 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:28:46 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:29:05 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:29:06 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:29:10 rme [~rme@50.43.151.253] has joined #lisp 13:31:40 -!- sestisr [~chatzilla@138.227.189.8] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 13:35:28 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:32 stassats: sorry i overlooked your link (cuda/gpu) and maybe i still overlook sth - what file tells me how to use it? 13:37:37 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:54 i don't know 13:40:18 so 13:40:30 If I'm using the lisp reader to read some configuration data; is there a way to get the file position of tokens, similar to SBCL which says "error at line X character Y position Z in the file ..."? 13:40:45 when i use slime i often click around, etc and my cursor leaves the cl-user> input area, whats the quick way to jump back there? 13:40:52 even if just my "parsing" code detects a semantic error it would be nice to have that data 13:41:13 quazimodo: M-> 13:41:23 flip215: you can install reader macros for the macro characters you're intersted in, and file-position. 13:41:48 pjb: it's not about macros, but normal symbols, too 13:41:59 The #\A  #\Z etc. 13:42:01 Then 13:42:13 stassats`: yeah i've been using that, silly 3 button combo. If you type or paste in that buffer it really ought to jump to the right spot 13:42:21 flip215: yea probably something like reading entire thing into a string, then use (with-input-from-string) then file-position it on error, and count how many lines that position is into the string 13:42:41 I'd expect sbcl to fill a hash with cons cell => position, and I'd like to ask that information 13:42:46 quazimodo: it oughtn't 13:42:57 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:43:01 maxm: it's possible that it's syntactically correct but my code wants to flag semantic errors 13:43:33 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:43:33 sbcl has it *something-locations* 13:43:45 v0yager [~v0yager@75-130-82-139.static.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:43:52 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:43:55 but I think it only fills it in starting from toplevel forms, so simply reading it probably does not fill it in 13:44:03 flip215: they did something like that at hu.dwim. 13:44:15 (using my reader). 13:44:24 stassats`: how do you figure? 13:44:30 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:44:31 I don't think file-position works on string stream. 13:44:33 flip215: If I was faced with the same problem, I think I would not use the Lisp reader, but write (or find) a custom reader. 13:44:42 file-position works only on file streams. 13:44:46 quazimodo: because i don't want it to do so 13:45:45 I found *source-location-thunks* 13:46:00 and because M-> works perfectly 13:46:22 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:46:33 I'll try to read that part, thanks a lot .... maxm- ++ 13:46:40 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:46:41 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:47:00 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 13:47:00 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:02 stassats`: oh lol, is there ever a need to type anywhere except after the cl-user> ? 13:48:24 flip: sb-c:with-source-location is where its using it 13:48:26 yes, you can edit your previous commands 13:48:42 *source-location-thunks* appears to be the hash in question, you need to find how its filled in 13:49:40 actually no, that is where it stores stuff.. 13:50:58 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:52:24 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-165-252-158.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:52:40 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.154.131.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:17 flip: found it, the machinery on how sbcl does it is in main.lisp, sub-sub-compile-file -> do-forms-from-info 13:53:22 stassats`: in slime, you type RET on the previous command, and edit it in the input area. 13:53:31 it reads each form, notes the file position etc, counts the forms 13:53:32 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@75-130-82-139.static.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:11 pjb: right 13:55:38 anyway, i see no reason to change the way REPL behaves 13:55:46 just because someone is too lazy to press M-> 13:56:42 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.41.196] has joined #lisp 13:57:58 if that someone sends a patch which can optionally enable such functionality, than we might talk 13:58:32 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:47 Joreji [~thomas@91-031.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:03:45 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:03:46 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:04:07 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:04:09 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:04:30 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:04:31 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:05:08 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:05:10 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 14:05:20 meta-physicist [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:05:46 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:50 -!- meta-physicist [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:50 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:08:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:11:33 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:11:36 can I somehow prevent '(function foo) being printed as #'foo by format t "~a/s" ? 14:12:01 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:12:02 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:12:20 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:12:21 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:12:30 likewise '(quote foo) should not be printed as 'foo 14:12:40 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:12:42 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:13:01 I don't know if its a slime issue 14:13:07 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:13:09 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:13:15 it's not a slime, and not an issue 14:13:28 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:13:29 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has left #lisp 14:14:12 dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:15 bind *print-pretty* to NIL 14:14:26 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-34-57.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:14:41 although, that doesn't work everywhere 14:15:43 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 14:15:51 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has left #lisp 14:15:55 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:16:49 in short, you can't do that 14:18:53 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:18:53 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:19:19 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:21:56 pjb: ping 14:22:05 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.65.235] has joined #lisp 14:22:08 pong 14:22:37 are you trying to run iolib on windows ? 14:22:53 I tried, yes. 14:24:51 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:25:05 Actually, I have a program that can run as a CLI or as a server. It uses iolib only for the server. But I wanted to use iolib.syscalls for things like getenv. But that doesn't seem to work. I'm falling back to ccl::getenv. 14:26:37 the original LISP interpreter had dynamic scope right? how hard is it to rewrite it to lexical scope? 14:27:14 Firstly, you'd need hardware that's been obsolete for over forty years... 14:27:27 Or an emulator for it. 14:27:38 pjb: Sssh! Don't spoil! :p 14:28:13 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 14:28:16 you guys don't get it -- writing a emulator for an obsolete platform is fun! 14:28:25 and useful 14:28:40 pjb: did you get an answer re: slime from 7 hours ago? 14:28:41 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 14:28:55 pjb: the CL side of slime is named swank 14:29:12 Xach: Yes, I realized it :-) 14:29:26 ok 14:29:34 Xach: notoce that ql:quickload takes a system, not a CL package. 14:29:36 notice 14:29:56 ok 14:30:02 But that motivated me to use quicklisp-slime-helper, so it's good. 14:30:02 Ttm [~ripault@sao-paulo.lrde.epita.fr] has joined #lisp 14:30:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-34-57.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:05 hi ! 14:30:13 Bonjour! 14:30:36 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189963.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:30:55 Ttm: So you're a student of Didier Verna? 14:31:47 yep 14:31:48 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-159-88.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:31:59 how do you know this :) ? 14:32:07 my irc realname ? 14:32:07 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-159-88.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:22 Just the hostname is already meaningful. 14:32:23 /who Ttm 14:33:09 Odin-: that was not my question. I am talking about the definition of EVAL, and what one would have to change in order to give it lexical scoping. 14:33:09 Didier Verna is a good CL hacker 14:33:14 Study his ways! 14:34:06 yep, I try to :) 14:34:24 i'd say that Didier is a good hacker in general 14:34:33 wakeup: It uses a simple alist that's passed around to look up variables, no? 14:34:42 Odin-: yes 14:34:46 I came with a question though 14:34:57 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 14:35:26 I'm looking to do statically typed operations, and in order to simplify this, I'd like to make a variadic version 14:36:20 wakeup: have you read Lisp In Small Pieces or something? 14:36:32 nope 14:36:40 wakeup: So that's the element you need to change. 14:36:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128103 << this is what i would like to do 14:36:54 believe it or not. I can't afford the book 14:37:06 you guys don't understand -- reading a book would be like cheating, and spoil all the fun! 14:37:11 steal it then 14:37:20 lend in a library 14:37:21 pirate 14:37:25 but I can't find a way to nake static-var-op work 14:37:30 make* 14:37:50 pjb: you can use hlavaty's port 14:37:56 Ttm: i guess we don't have enough context... 14:38:01 fe[nl]ix: thanks. 14:38:40 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:18 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 14:40:43 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:52 Ttm: (defmacro static-op (type op &rest args) `(the ,type (funcall ,op ,@(loop for arg in args collect `(the ,type ,arg))))) 14:41:26 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 14:41:45 why are you doing this whole charade though, i don't know 14:42:26 sometimes it even makes the CL compilers generate slower code! 14:42:38 Ttm: how do you guarantee that a result of fixnum + fixnum is fixnum? 14:43:02 http://paste.lisp.org/+2QUF/1 14:43:12 jdz: I'm working on optimization right now 14:43:23 Ttm: you'll add correctness later? 14:43:47 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:43:56 blindly slapping type declarations isn't called "optimization"b 14:44:00 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:44:04 no, I jnow 14:44:07 know* 14:44:49 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:44:56 but the idea is that on some points of my code, I know that the result of some arithmetics operations will be fixnums 14:45:04 thanks for the help btw :) 14:45:33 Ttm: i wonder how you know that? 14:45:52 does profiling show that those points are the culprit? 14:46:38 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:47:04 arithmetics on array indices for example jdz 14:47:25 and if you know that results of multiplication will fit into a fixnum, then you can declare more tight types 14:47:33 fixnum, in general, shouldn't be used at all 14:47:43 why ? 14:47:51 Ttm: do you know about the long-standing bug in JVM? 14:48:02 nope 14:48:03 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:48:06 Ttm: because it's implementation and platform dependent 14:48:07 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 14:48:30 if you know that your number will be between -10 and 34, then declare it as (integer -10 34) 14:49:15 ok, I take note :) 14:49:25 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:36 If you know it's an array index, use a deftype to name a type (or I think alexandria has one too) 14:50:26 Yes, it does, alexandria:array-index 14:50:30 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:51:02 I have to go, thanks again for the help 14:52:37 -!- Skola [~bas@89.184.179.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:52:54 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:53:16 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:53:41 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:53:41 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1310.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:06 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:37 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:51 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 14:56:10 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:57:20 *maxm-* is wondering if too much declares are not slowing down stuff when run under default settings 14:57:43 and if your code is very finely structured (ie tons of tiny functions calling other ones, very nested) 14:58:11 I don't remember, but when I tried it it was to optimize some code, so I probably was (debug 0) (safety 0) (speed 3) (space 2) or something like that. 14:58:14 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:58:30 since every declare in fact adds additional piece of code to be executed... (no question that in increases safety/assertability, and with speed 3 safety 0 actualy increases speed) 14:59:40 *maxm-* was testing log4cl under default settings, and I actually shaved off a few seconds after removing declares from most appender methods (ie declaring non-specialized arg types) 14:59:58 declarations are type-checks in sbcl 15:00:18 so far my policy had been to add them on the lowest level functions, but not on the ones calling them 15:00:18 unless it can't prove that the type will indeed be as advertised, it'll perform type-checks at run-time 15:00:26 s/can't/can/ 15:00:31 when lowest one fails, easy enough to figure out from stack trace where it came from 15:00:44 rukubite` [~user@d58-111-178-213.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:00:51 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:01:02 is there already a command in emacs/paredit/... to reformat a long string for the ignored newline directive/FORMAT? i.e. according to fill-column 15:01:13 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:14 m-q 15:01:19 ferada: Hmm, I don't think I've seen one. That would be interesting. 15:01:23 maxm-: really? 15:01:29 ah for the format 15:01:32 no 15:01:44 ferada: I think I did something like that to answer a question on the acl maillist. 15:01:54 acl2 15:02:02 *maxm-* is usually reading faster then brain can understand 15:03:08 stassats`: doesn't it depend on the optimization level in sbcl? (meaning of declarations) 15:03:12 pjb: is there an archive for that list? 15:03:17 ferada: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.science.mathematics.logic.acl2.user/64 15:03:22 thx 15:03:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.41.196] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 15:03:39 madnificent: the question was about default settings 15:03:48 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:53 stassats`: my bad 15:04:18 -!- rukubites [~user@d58-111-186-155.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:17 with safety 0 it would blindly trust declartions 15:05:46 and which can be misused for fun and profit 15:05:50 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:05:59 -!- zerd [~zerd@rex.zerd.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 15:06:01 it's a great way to reach the ldb 15:06:10 Or to let viruses in. 15:06:24 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-xkhuewmbcfpfgaud] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:25 v0yager [~v0yager@bordm.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:41 pjb: that seems pretty advanced, not sure how you'd make sure that happens 15:07:25 Well, you'd need some dynamic-extend buffer too :-) 15:07:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:07:43 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [] 15:08:49 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:09:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.230] has joined #lisp 15:09:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.230] has quit [Changing host] 15:09:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:09:26 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:09:43 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@bordm.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:46 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:09:47 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:10:04 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:10:07 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:10:15 v0yager [~v0yager@75-130-82-139.static.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:28 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:10:30 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:10:51 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:11:20 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:11:30 TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:12:14 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:12:46 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:12:52 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:13:37 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@86.57.158.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:15:13 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@75-130-82-139.static.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:15:16 fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:16:40 -!- fdhsfdsgdsg [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [K-Lined] 15:20:51 sigi-ntb_ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 15:22:01 langbiangplaza [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has joined #lisp 15:23:33 -!- langbiangplaza [~ghkhghffd@117.3.195.94] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:23:38 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:23:40 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-stowydaglrpkzghw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:19 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:21 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:25 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:54 TheTom [~tom@80.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:17 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:49 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:45 -!- yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:53 Xach: didn't you have a handly lisp tip (or similar) on finding asdf-relative files? 15:28:53 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:28:59 I did 15:29:13 http://xach.livejournal.com/294639.html 15:29:58 thanks, that should be on lisptips.com 15:30:28 mmmaybe. i think of lisptips.com more for CL stuff than extra-CL stuff. 15:30:43 -!- KDr2 [~kdr2@123.120.157.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:07 Xach: how is that tip extra-cl, except for the mention on asdf? 15:31:33 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pfeqizxshpfpzoff] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:02 Sure, if you take out the main point, which is extra-cl, it is not extra-cl :) 15:32:08 Xach: extra-cl? 15:32:08 my comment is asdf-free 15:32:24 also, xach. the line (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :defaults *load-truename*) is missing a trailing paren 15:32:40 Xach: isn't the main point "here is how you can reference files relative to your source"? 15:33:30 H4ns: the main point is "resource access and ASDF" 15:33:35 slyrus: thanks, fixed 15:34:25 Xach: the main point is resource access. You happen to be using ASDF for the example, but I think the broader point is CL-y enough 15:34:41 mmmaybe! 15:35:12 everyone is entitled to a stubborn day now and then :) 15:35:53 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:59 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:31 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:37:05 -!- blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:24 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:04 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:50 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:40:31 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 15:42:25 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:42:26 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:44:56 tensorpudding__ [~michael@99.32.58.205] has joined #lisp 15:45:33 *maxm-* not sure how to take "very useful but really surprising that it even works" feedback to his org mode branch 15:45:46 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:45:48 have to make it working in a less surprising fashion I guess 15:45:56 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:57 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:47:45 -!- TheTom [~tom@80.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:48:13 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 15:48:26 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.65.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:49:18 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:50:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:51:46 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:40 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:54:30 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:58:20 is lists.common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/boston-lisp the only way to sign up for the boston lisp mailing list? 15:59:02 dekuked: what is the issue with that? 15:59:06 stupid me, now it's loading, guess it was me 15:59:38 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:00:43 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:01:56 dekuked: Barn burner of a meeting last night! 16:02:39 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:03:27 where can i read about the decisions of that ahem cabal? 16:04:27 there's no cabal 16:04:45 thats what a member of a cabal would say 16:04:48 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:05 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 16:05:06 *Xach* winks 16:06:23 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:06:28 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 16:08:01 huh. I usually just make an app-path function that uses asdf 16:08:44 (app-path #p"data/foo.dat") => #p"/path/to/system/data/foo.dat" 16:10:52 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-159-88.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: busy] 16:12:24 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 16:13:25 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:44 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:13:56 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:14:47 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-87.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:18 hello. when I type `(declare (optimize' slime echoes &any ((speed 1) (safety 1) etc). how can I declare a function to get similar hints? 16:15:39 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:16:05 kmee: functions normally give hints also. 16:16:08 cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 "(car " should show you the arguments to CAR 16:16:34 Xach: it was a really great meeting, it's really cool having an opportunity to meet so many of you smart people 16:17:04 yes. but if one of the function's arguments can be only say :foo or :bar, is there a way to have SLIME hint that? 16:17:37 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-120.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:19:05 define a method for swank:arglist-dispatch 16:19:55 i see, i thought i can do it by just changing declaration 16:20:11 by putting &any somewhere in the declaration 16:20:48 &any isn't part of CL 16:22:03 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:22:13 ok. by the way how would one check and error if argument is :foo or :bar and nothing else? right now I have (defun func (option) (unless (find option '(:foo :bar)) (error "Option should be :foo or :bar"))) 16:22:25 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-181.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:22:33 is that how you'd do it? 16:22:34 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 16:23:01 (check-type X (member :a :b :c)) 16:23:41 or ECASE, in case you do something based on what it is 16:23:43 nice 16:24:06 check-type is the operator to use when you want to "declare" types in CL. It'sthe real equivalent of C typing. 16:24:34 (declare (type )) is something with no equivalent in other programming languages. 16:24:52 well, check-type is what you want to use when you want to check types 16:25:05 i don't care what C has 16:25:46 when is (declare (type xx)) used? 16:25:52 But I'd bet most of newbie CL programmers know C before learning CL. Perhaps I should bet for Java or JavaScript? 16:26:15 kmee: for optimization purposes 16:26:34 kmee: (declare (type tipe var)) is a promise you are making to the compiler, of never binding to var a value not of type tipe. 16:27:02 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:03 kmee: So basically, you're telling the compiler stop doing any check assume the variable has this type. 16:27:39 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:27:59 In C, at least, if you try to pass an argument of type X to a parameter of type Y, it signals an error (it checks the types at compilation time). With declare it doesn't check anything. 16:28:10 Of course, apart from sbcl which deviates from the standard here. 16:28:21 sbcl doesn't deviate 16:29:45 How do I read a string from stream or turn (read) quoted object into a string? 16:30:11 sie: READ-LINE is one way to get a string from a stream 16:30:23 (string (read-char stream)) 16:30:25 sie: (princ-to-string object) will return a string 16:30:39 (with-input-from-string (input " \"Hello\" ") (read input)) => "Hello" 16:30:53 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.41.196] has joined #lisp 16:31:11 madrik [~user@122.168.212.218] has joined #lisp 16:34:38 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:40:17 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 16:42:26 -!- dsabanin [~dsabanin@89.22.164.72] has quit [Quit: dsabanin] 16:42:53 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:01 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081BE5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:05 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:46:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@91-031.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:49 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:48:04 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.230] has joined #lisp 16:48:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.87.230] has quit [Changing host] 16:48:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:48:22 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 16:49:00 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:52 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 16:51:09 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.1] has joined #lisp 16:52:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:25 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:34 superflit [~superflit@75-171-202-150.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:55 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:25 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 16:59:56 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:08 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:49 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:09:07 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-210-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:09:59 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:31 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:12:52 ronankde [~ronankde@186.226.73.98] has joined #lisp 17:13:20 -!- ronankde [~ronankde@186.226.73.98] has left #lisp 17:13:52 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@91-65-218-223-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:14:45 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:20:04 Is DRAKMA sufficient for downloading files from the internet to disk? Or is there a better alternative? 17:20:15 it is sufficient 17:20:25 -!- kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 17:21:05 Qworkescence: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127872#3 17:21:21 aha! 17:21:23 Thanks 17:21:45 this might not be very efficient for large files 17:21:52 since they'll be first read into memory 17:22:07 This looks sufficient 17:22:34 It is pretty easy in drakma to stream the content if needed. 17:23:02 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-181.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:23:07 Before I was looking at Xach's QL stuff. Xach, it looks like you rolled your own? 17:23:54 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Quit: icylisper] 17:23:59 Qworkescence: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127872#4 17:24:22 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189963.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:24:35 now i need to test them 17:24:45 Qworkescence: yes. i wanted something with no dependencies that I could easily stick in a single file. 17:24:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:24:57 drakma has more features 17:25:06 Xach, right 17:25:12 i use drakma for libraries and applications. quicklisp is "special" 17:27:08 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:28:08 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177088230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:29:11 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:33 Xach, Yeah that's understandable, especially since DRAKMA brings in 6 other libraries 17:29:36 davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:30 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-189030.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:32:48 the first version is much faster 17:33:55 kai_ [~kai@e179019071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:35:20 flexi-streams isn't known for performance 17:37:36 babel isn't known for its line terminator support. :( 17:37:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:38:06 yeah, lisp sucks, how can anyone do anything with it? 17:38:26 what 17:38:51 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 17:39:26 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-181.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:39:29 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:40 -!- Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has quit [Quit: need food now] 17:39:58 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:47:22 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:48:20 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 17:49:07 stassats`: they just code their own library like everyone else, of course! :)) 17:49:29 -!- tensorpudding__ is now known as tensorpudding 17:52:32 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:39 sykopomp: patch it! 17:52:55 fork it! 17:53:13 Qworkescence: bear in mind that streaming as in that paste is somewhat wasateful of CPU time 17:53:19 now, that would by babylonian 17:53:21 be 17:53:25 :) 17:53:27 hah 17:53:56 yes, as i tested, the first version is much faster 17:54:12 only twice as slow as wget, and i couldn't wait for the second version to finish 17:54:13 that bad? I wasn't sure if it would actually be a sizable slowdown 17:54:17 wow. 17:54:51 on 600M file 17:55:04 0.5 seconds for write-sequence 17:55:07 Qworkescence: so if you need good performance, you'll have to roll your own with iolib or raw syscalls 17:55:23 or.. just call wget 17:55:29 or that, yes. 17:55:35 iolibbing it up is pretty easy though 17:55:41 wget does it in 0.260 17:55:57 Ralith: you'd need to parse http 17:56:03 yeah 17:58:15 Ralith, you mean I will need to turn quicklisp downloads into a library 17:58:23 Qworkescence: no. 17:59:46 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:58 though that might be a good idea for the http-parsing bits 18:00:24 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:01:09 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-87.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:04:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-87.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:42 -!- 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[~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:53:49 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129016166.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:54:06 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.212.218] has left #lisp 18:54:48 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:54:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:34 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-54-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:57:25 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:02 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081BE5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:59:56 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:55 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:29 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:03:44 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:20 Ralith: the plan is to patch babel if no one beats me to it, but it'll take me a while to figure out how to do it properly. 19:04:31 *Ralith* nod 19:04:31 *sykopomp* has no idea how babel's internals really work. 19:04:37 why d'you need newline frobbing anyway? 19:04:52 so I don't have to write CRLF myself. 19:05:16 -!- osa1 [~sinan@213.43.114.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:05:17 ...for? 19:05:26 and I can just do (format *something* "Foo~%Bar~%Baz~%"), and have those ~% converted to CRLF when they're turned into bytes. 19:05:57 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 19:06:02 I mean, I thought you were mostly just doing HTML 19:06:04 as it turns out, there's a number of protocols that explicitly require ASCII+CRLF for their communication stuff (such as HTTP) 19:06:20 HTML is a markup language. HTTP is the protocol. 19:06:33 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:35 yes 19:06:39 I don't think I'd agree with such a change 19:06:41 and most of what you encode is the markup language. 19:07:19 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:07:29 you certainly shouldn't need to handwrite a ton of things that output http. 19:07:36 fe[nl]ix: such a change for what? For babel? 19:08:05 fe[nl]ix: the thing is, babel already *has* external formats, and it seems like they meant to get around to handling line breaks, too. 19:08:37 Ralith: It's not the end of the world. I already wrote my code by manually shoving in the CRLF. It's a pain, and it makes things ugly, which is why it's also not a huge priority to add to babel. 19:08:45 *Ralith* nod 19:09:06 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:09:41 fe[nl]ix: what do you think might be involved in adding async support to iolib's dns stuff, and would you accept a patch adding such? 19:10:05 v0yager [~v0yager@75-130-82-139.static.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:16 Ralith: DNS is pretty simple to make asynchronous 19:14:32 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@75-130-82-139.static.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:45 wait until you get a full message, which is easy because the length is in the first few bytes 19:15:21 then parse it. if it's ok return it, otherwise retry/cycle nameservers 19:15:45 well, being async, you'd have to have a callback or something rather than return it 19:15:50 but yeah 19:15:56 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.170.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:01 sounds promising 19:16:07 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:26 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:40 so you'd be open to including that? 19:17:29 the current resolver would need to be fixed too, because it doesn't follow the standard algorithm - as described in resolv.conf(5) 19:17:45 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-159-88.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:46 yes, in principle 19:19:01 great 19:19:53 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-171-202-150.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:28 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-181.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:22:02 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:23:00 the standard algorithm being full and equivalent implementation of all behavior specified by 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[~tswett@171.64.42.221] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:15:38 vigil_ante [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:47 tswett [~tswett@171.64.42.221] has joined #lisp 20:21:13 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 20:22:06 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 20:22:06 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:54 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-247-174.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:49 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 20:25:28 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 20:26:12 gener1c [~gener1c@unaffiliated/gener1c] has joined #lisp 20:26:46 -!- gener1c [~gener1c@unaffiliated/gener1c] has left #lisp 20:34:09 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 20:35:04 gabot [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:35:08 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:26 -!- peccu1 [~peccu@ZU204122.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:36:37 -!- kilon is now known as kilon_away 20:36:38 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.240.132.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:42 sup p33ps. 20:37:16 *easye* gives props to Xach for zs3. 20:37:45 easye: I hope you like my next hit single, ZAWS 20:37:46 It is almost criminal how easy it is to make Quicklisp distributions on S3. 20:38:04 fe[nl]ix: you maintain babel? 20:38:13 I hope to make it easy to support any/every Amazon AWS service 20:38:36 S3 is friggin' cheap. 20:38:57 At least, until someone other than me starts using my buckets. 20:39:02 Even with CloudFront it's pretty cheap 20:39:05 *Xach* checks the february bill 20:39:32 CloudFront was worth it for me to knock down the latency and push content out to edges around the world 20:40:03 *easye* has to read up on the AMZN CloudFront abstraction. 20:40:38 Is there a cl-oauth for OAuth 2.0 yet? 20:41:00 This month was $0.99 for cloudfront, $0.22 for S3, and $0.12 for data transfer 20:41:14 babel:octets-to-string with :errorp nil is giving me 'value NIL is not of the expected type CHARACTER.' when supplied with a large block of mangled data. 20:41:56 Ralith: is it still an octet array? 20:42:09 yes. 20:42:11 Xach: you're lucky that nobody uses lisp 20:42:22 SUNE> (babel:octets-to-string *test* :errorp nil :encoding :utf-8) 20:42:22 ; Evaluation aborted on #. 20:42:22 SUNE> (type-of *test*) 20:42:22 (SIMPLE-ARRAY (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8) (65536)) 20:42:43 er, sorry, that was a bit spammy 20:42:54 stassats`: I am ready for a tenfold increase in quicklisp usage! 20:44:10 Eeep, I cost someone else money when I use quicklisp? 20:44:11 :/ 20:44:17 stassats`: so when you and ten friends start using it... 20:44:42 Sgeo: Yes. This month you (and everyone else) cost me $1.44 in amazon hosting costs. 20:44:55 A great deal for Xach and everyone! 20:45:20 Xach gets at *least* a drink a month from evey Quicklisp user... 20:45:25 6.5GB of total data transferred, about 60,000 files transferred 20:46:05 Quicklisp users paid for my trip to the Boston Lisp meeting yesterday. 20:46:13 And for a nice meal. Thanks! 20:46:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:47:47 Ralith: need a test case 20:48:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:50:57 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db58a70.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:36 peccu1 [~peccu@ZU206142.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:52:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.24.224] has joined #lisp 20:53:29 fe[nl]ix: it's 65kB of data; lemme see if I can find a breaking subseq. 20:53:35 64* 20:54:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:11 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:55:33 Darn, SBCL will not load a binary stream as a fasl unless it is associated with a file. 20:55:48 I wonder if that is an implication of the spec or just a coincidence. 20:56:26 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:56:36 *Ralith* bisects 20:56:41 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:58:02 fe[nl]ix: #(231 4 237 189 177 145 205 185) 20:58:30 that breaks it reliably. 20:59:47 (as a simple-array ub8) 20:59:49 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:21 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 21:01:33 Ralith: what are you working on, anyway? 21:02:34 sykopomp: I used to run an IRC bot for a few channels. Apparently they miss so badly that they will hound me until it is replaced, but my old code is too terrible to look upon so I'm redoing it properly. 21:02:51 orite 21:02:57 *maxm-* is rebasing his qt stuff, and after trying standard one I forgot how much useful stuff I did 21:03:20 C-c C-c interrupting gui repl thread, correctly handling *package* etc 21:03:28 quit teasing 21:03:46 almost done, expect it tomorrow morning 21:03:59 it's already tomorrow 21:04:21 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:30 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04:31 I also added generic marshalling from cffi:pointer to "Anything *" 21:04:37 hopefully that is not too contriversial 21:05:03 *maxm-* is using this for special macros that do bulk drawing, stack allocating arrays of floats, and then doing drawLines() and drawPoints() 21:05:53 cffi grovel, does not handle stuff when the ARCH differs from machine-type....... 21:06:22 ?? 21:06:45 Ralith: how did you call octets-to-string ? 21:06:45 i did add a *cc* type for sbcl and for cmucl differently there, as cmucl is always x86 whereas sbcl can be x86 or x86-64 21:07:08 Ahh, I suppose the specification of *load-truename* requires that the stream must be associated with a file. 21:07:40 and my default arch is x86-64, whereas i want to be able to use x86 32bit sbcl too here 21:07:53 and switching gcc's by hand is ugly... 21:07:55 fe[nl]ix: 21:07:56 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:07:56 (let ((foo (coerce #(231 4 237 189 177 145 205 185) '(simple-array ub8 (*))))) (babel:octets-to-string foo :encoding :utf-8 :errorp nil)) 21:08:14 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:31 Kron [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has joined #lisp 21:08:49 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:50 Ralith: what does it break ? 21:09:08 it signals: value NIL is not of the expected type CHARACTER. [Condition of type TYPE-ERROR] 21:09:15 not here 21:09:18 doesn't do that for me 21:09:33 on sbcl... does on CCL 21:09:41 I am indeed running CCL. 21:10:43 Xach: are you trying to handle C-c C-c from slime correctly? If so I have a slime hack in examples/ dir of log4cl 21:10:56 Ralith: ok, I can reproduce 21:10:59 \o/ 21:11:30 maxm-: No. Art Obrezan is asking if it's possible to load a fasl if the contents of the fasl are in a vector. 21:11:33 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:11:41 maxm-: I thought it might be possible with a flexi-stream. 21:11:46 ah 21:12:02 and #(237 189 177) is the shortest sequence 21:12:05 sbcl definitely calls file-position on it 21:12:16 or actually no that is for the sources 21:12:59 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 21:13:02 hmm is he trying to use FASL's as serialization protocol I wonder 21:13:34 Art was quite interesting at ECLM. 21:13:57 "Do you do Lisp for all your primary work? No? I have no interest in speaking with you. You don't know what you are talking about." 21:14:24 Ralith: please open a ticket: https://github.com/cl-babel/babel/issues 21:14:36 kk 21:14:54 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:15:05 jlongster [~user@2620:101:8003:200:129a:ddff:feb0:614d] has joined #lisp 21:15:53 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:41 happens even without :errorp nil, surprisingly 21:17:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:12 fe[nl]ix: speaking of which, is it really best to have babel ignore eol-style of its external formats? 21:18:12 issue up 21:18:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:19:31 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 21:20:49 sykopomp: maybe not. ask luis :) 21:21:12 *sykopomp* put up an issue a week ago, but still hasn't heard back. 21:21:14 TheTom [~tom@80.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.62.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:22:14 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:24:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:26:57 237 189 177 encodes 57201 21:27:02 and CCL doesn't know about such character 21:27:08 (code-char 57201) => NIL 21:27:20 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A4A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:26 and man, is babel's code tricky or what 21:27:45 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:27:52 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:27:54 but it behaves differently for other invalid characters. 21:28:52 #(255) for example produces the expect error and/or replacement char depending on :errorp 21:29:10 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 21:29:20 it's a valid character, apparently 21:29:23 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@24-52-246-61.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:55 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B076.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:30:55 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:33:08 57201 (or #xdf71) is a surrogate code unit. It is not a character, by definition. 21:33:21 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:34:35 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:35:17 stassats`: but babel signals otherwiseis that another bug? 21:35:33 Ralith: it doesn't signal 21:35:45 wat? 21:35:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:35:57 (babel:octets-to-string (coerce #(255) '(simple-array ub8 (*))) :encoding :utf-8) 21:35:59 signals here. 21:36:11 -!- rukubite` [~user@d58-111-178-213.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:18 we were talking about 57201 21:36:26 oh 21:36:50 and i don't want to look at babel source code anymore, i'm scared 21:37:20 I know 21:37:28 luis did that when he was young 21:38:00 he wanted to try 3-level backquoting 21:38:16 I suppose backquotes in CL are like pointers in C 21:38:34 insofar as that excessive nesting gets scary rapidly. 21:38:59 I'm having trouble finding the definition of 'surrogate' in the unicode spec; can anyone point where to look? 21:39:26 UTF-16? 21:39:41 Because I think that's the only reason the concept is relevent 21:39:46 I may be off base though 21:40:01 Ralith: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Mapping_of_Unicode_characters#Surrogates 21:41:48 ah. 21:43:15 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:29 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-235-31.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:32 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:33 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-241-59.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:58 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:46:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:28 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:17 and maxima can't handle two different sbcl's too..... 21:50:21 enni [52e658d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.230.88.217] has joined #lisp 21:50:46 it need two different binary-sbcl dirs....for x86 and x86-64 ones...... 21:52:01 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:33 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:55:21 man its hard to make a test case for qt speed increase, I think its only there when you override qt methods 21:56:23 it caches find-qmethod, which when calling regular methods is actually cached by qt itself, but when you use qt-metaclass and override qt methods, then it uses it on each call, which does cffi:from-foreign-string each time 21:57:42 -!- arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-37-75.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:24 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-43-130.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:57 -!- n1nt4tsn0k|1 [~nitnatsno@31.163.216.168] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:01:07 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-151-211.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:15 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:17 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:02:28 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449274.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:03:03 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:21 -!- enni [52e658d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.230.88.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:04:19 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:04:25 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.24.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:25 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Quit: dekuked] 22:05:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:10:25 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:44 TheMue [~TheMue@pC19F6AB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:15 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:13:19 davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-112-208.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.217.27] has joined #lisp 22:19:32 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-43-130.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:48 Fare [~Adium@74.125.59.113] has joined #lisp 22:20:56 hum. 22:21:09 Prompted by the success of quicklisp, 22:21:17 -!- sigi-ntb_ [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:21:18 I'm splitting fare-utils into smaller bits 22:21:40 also cleaning some of those bits and publishing new bits as I do. 22:21:56 How should I name the .asd files, and the packages? 22:22:00 Example: memoization 22:22:11 fare-memoization ? 22:22:13 I have yet another memoization package 22:22:19 yes, that's how it's currently called 22:22:31 fare-yamemoization ? 22:22:38 I'm cleaning the API right now, and still think tfeb's version stinks 22:23:26 Xach mentionned that fare being a valid noun, that brings confusion, with people thinking e.g. that fare-matcher matches fares. 22:23:41 should I rename to frr- ? 22:23:50 or fareh 22:23:57 farray 22:24:06 or just plain memoization 22:24:10 or use unicode :D 22:24:22 memoization is already in use, i think. 22:24:33 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-153-19.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:53 -!- sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.244] has left #lisp 22:26:28 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 22:26:33 I see quicklisp has tfeb's memoize 22:27:13 the api of which, I think, is even worse than mine. 22:27:39 right. but please do not reuse names. 22:27:48 don't memoize names 22:29:01 his package is called memoize 22:29:12 cbp` [~user@187.193.228.84] has joined #lisp 22:29:48 Fare: ah, ok. 22:30:06 there's an old memoization.lisp from the AI repo, that was included in araneida, and doesn't have a .asd, but has the package "MEMOIZATION", however. 22:30:08 surely i'll be the only one who constantly mixes up the two 22:30:29 Suppose that there is a naming conflict. Two people independently call their package a. b uses person 1's a, and c uses person 2's a. d wants to use both b and c. Not asking if it's easy, but is it in principle possible to make d work? 22:30:39 By dynamically renaming packages or something? 22:31:21 I had code to dynamically rename packages and back, and have asdf wrap that around compilation 22:31:31 fe[nl]ix: looking at static-vectors again, still having prior issue (sbcl x86_64 1.0.55) .. may be a 64-bit issue as the length i get from a returned vector is #x3FFF80000005 22:31:38 But it didn't handle all corner cases; I should update it 22:31:49 fe[nl]ix: err, a vector that should be length 5 22:32:03 corner cases = ugly circularities in how packages and their nicknames clash with each other before and after the renames 22:32:13 so I didn't publish (yet) 22:32:48 Fare, would you stuff cover my use-case? 22:32:59 If so, I think that's awesome that CL can handle that. 22:33:26 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@pC19F6AB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 22:35:35 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 22:37:39 -!- cbp` is now known as a` 22:37:45 -!- a` is now known as cbp` 22:38:42 Sgeo: which is your use case? 22:39:02 Well, not a real use case, a hypothetical one 22:39:07 Suppose that there is a naming conflict. Two people independently call their package a. b uses person 1's a, and c uses person 2's a. d wants to use both b and c. Not asking if it's easy, but is it in principle possible to make d work? 22:39:09 Yes, it would cover it, if there are no clashes in renaming and/or you resolve the cases manually 22:39:25 or I fix my code to avoid the clashes automatically 22:39:35 Awesome 22:39:39 something I want to do in my copious free time 22:39:48 thanks for reminding me about it 22:40:07 You're welcome 22:40:18 ok, so splitting fare-utils into plenty of packages could do it 22:40:30 I suppose for memoization, I will call it fare-memoization 22:40:36 hi fare and friends. 22:40:36 or maybe frr- ? 22:40:39 or xcvb- ? 22:40:39 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:52 xcvb-memoization is obviously not about fares or anything 22:41:09 x-memoization? 22:42:20 oGMo: ok, I'll take care of it 22:42:25 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A983.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:42:44 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:05 optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has joined #lisp 22:45:30 zophy [~zophy@ipv6postoffice.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:41 are CUSP or Lisp in the Box buggy? I want to recommend them to someone as an IDE but havent used either since they first came out :S 22:46:10 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:42 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:47:06 oneirophren [~oneirophr@91.196.91.40] has joined #lisp 22:47:42 -!- oneirophren [~oneirophr@91.196.91.40] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:47:57 oneirophren [~oneirophr@91.196.91.40] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 optikalmouse: Lisp in the box is alright but sadly uncustomizable (by Seibel's design) so it's really only good as an intro to SLIME emacs development. Cusp is the least buggy out of all of the non-emacs options I tried 22:48:41 Certainly much better than the proprietary options 22:48:58 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:49:20 optikalmouse: theres also slimv <--- Slime-like functionality for Vim 22:49:24 Fare: fare-foo looks like a perfectly fine naming convention to me, FWIW... 22:49:26 but i haven't used it myself. 22:49:30 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:49:33 ok I'll give CUSP a go, I need to teach a few beginners some lisp and I dont want them also having to learn emacs and vi 22:49:34 :S 22:49:47 -!- oneirophren [~oneirophr@91.196.91.40] has quit [Client Quit] 22:49:47 We'll come to name it fareware anyway, so... 22:50:14 Is there a (ideally standard) function to find out a class's superclasses (or class precedence list)? 22:50:29 optikalmouse: installing CUSP plugin is bit annoying IIRC, you have to do some kind of compatibility mode and then accept an unsigned package. 22:50:47 jacius: c2mop:class-direct-superclasses 22:50:53 and c2mop:class-precedence-list 22:51:00 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:51:02 -!- wuj [~wuj@rrcs-50-74-152-202.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:51:59 rme__ [~rme@50.43.145.237] has joined #lisp 22:52:07 -!- rme [rme@6B0378F7.A884877E.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 22:52:33 stassats`: Great, thank you :) 22:53:38 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.151.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:53:38 -!- rme__ is now known as rme 22:55:36 vigil_ante: meh easier than learning emacs right? :P 22:56:02 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:39 wuj [~wuj@rrcs-50-74-152-202.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:39 optikalmouse: yes, but in the end I bit the bullet and learned it anyway. The customization options are just too handy. For instance I simply cannot live without rainbow parentheses. 22:56:42 hi optikalmouse 22:56:47 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:57:34 Xach: hey, hows it going? 22:58:38 -!- wuj [~wuj@rrcs-50-74-152-202.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:46 wuj [~wuj@rrcs-50-74-152-202.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:58:48 -!- rme [rme@697F743B.7AD63B8A.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 22:58:53 rme__ [~rme@50.43.128.181] has joined #lisp 23:00:30 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:37 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.145.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:37 -!- rme__ is now known as rme 23:00:41 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:00 ok, time to leave work, cy'all later 23:01:04 -!- optikalmouse [~user@76.9.199.178] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:01:49 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 23:02:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:34 rme__ [~rme@50.43.148.228] has joined #lisp 23:03:40 -!- rme [rme@76ECED1B.92D39A3A.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 23:04:38 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.128.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:38 -!- rme__ is now known as rme 23:04:39 what is the significant number for single float in sbcl ? 23:04:45 and how do you set it ? 23:05:00 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:05:22 i even set fpprec:8$ in my maxima-init.mac and set single-float explicitly, but the results are shown with 16 digits anyway ...... 23:05:44 i mean the test results.... 23:06:18 -!- wuj [~wuj@rrcs-50-74-152-202.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:07:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:07:34 -!- TheTom [~tom@80.79-160-161.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:08:03 -!- rme [rme@852B8574.78A1BA07.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 23:08:06 rme__ [~rme@50.43.155.66] has joined #lisp 23:08:15 Hum. So, in unrelated news, the realisation that nobody cares about my shit finally sank in completely, and I figure hiding my presumed most valuable stuff makes no fucking sense and is counter-productive, so I decided to publish most of my 20 private projects on github (in a few days), with an explicit UNSUPPORTED label (it's a mixed bag, but there's some really nice stuff in there). 23:08:47 that's what everybody is doing 23:09:07 stassats: Then it's time I join the party! 23:09:13 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:51 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 23:10:22 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.148.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:10:22 -!- rme__ is now known as rme 23:10:24 How can you use a check-type or assert to see if something is nil? Either way, sbcl is for some reason deleting the code as "unreachable". 23:10:42 (check-type something null) 23:10:58 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:11:13 well I want it to error on a nil 23:11:15 that is one of the somewhat helpful things sbcl does 23:11:20 I hoped to release nice "finish products", but I'm just hopelessly ineffective at it. And, doing some meta-organisation of projects and stuff is not something I'm motivated to do if I'm the only benefactor, so just publishing fucking everything could encourage me to organise things better, since in theory it can help other people... 23:11:22 (defun test4 (test) 23:11:22 (check-type test t "blah")) 23:11:26 it means that you screwed up, but it often doesn't tell you much of how 23:11:44 nil is of type t 23:11:48 wtf 23:11:50 (check-type test (not null)) 23:11:54 I thought nil was the only thing that wasn't 23:12:02 finished* 23:12:07 you thought wron 23:12:09 g 23:12:19 apparently 23:12:36 vigil_ante: Everything is of type T. Nothing is of type NIL. 23:12:38 but it does the same thing for (assert test () "") 23:12:51 if it returns nil the assert should fail no? 23:13:06 yes 23:13:26 and () "" aren't meaningful 23:13:57 *Fare* picks the name fare-memoization, the nickname fmemo, and writes some extensive documentation, including some criticism of previous memoization libraries. 23:14:01 that was just rounding out the assert form 23:14:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:38 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:46 1+ to the "extensive documentation" part. The CL ecosystem needs more of that. 23:15:00 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:18 who are you to decide what CL ecosystem needs?! 23:15:37 The CL ecosystem needs to exist.\ 23:15:38 Hello, I'm Hexstream. Pleased to meet you. 23:15:48 documentation is for those who don't love adventure 23:15:50 ^^not a disagreeable statement I assume 23:15:59 stassats: Most people are not you, stassats. 23:16:28 ok assert magically working now (or at least the compiler isn't deleting it), guess something else was previously causing assert to be deleted 23:16:40 stassats: everything has documentation, you just press M-. ;) 23:16:58 Thanks for info on t I guess, though I don't understand how the value used for falsity can be a member of T 23:17:10 oGMo: that's what i mean, i'll take good code instead of documentation any day 23:17:25 t the value and t the type (or is it class?) are different things 23:17:26 all those functions are annotated as lisp source somewhere :) 23:17:30 I'll take both good code and good documentation any day. ;P 23:18:00 stassats, so, you'd rather try to understand the inner workings, of, say, cl-cont than just read about what it does? 23:18:03 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:13 "Documentation is overrated" is overrated. 23:18:14 i'd rather not use cl-cont 23:18:18 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-210-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:18:23 And do something similar every time you want to use someone else's macros? 23:18:44 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:18:44 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest64280 23:18:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-241.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:03 Sgeo: but that has to be the worst possible "duality of syntax" (to borrow Let Over Lambda's terminology) ever conceived of. Should have called the root object something other than a shorthand for "truth" if it also includes falsity 23:19:09 parameter signature is usually enough 23:19:15 unless the macro is brain-damaged 23:19:40 vigil_ante: Keep in mind that T the value and T the type are two different things... 23:19:59 Same symbol, different namespaces (value and type namespaces). 23:20:02 vigil_ante, there are a bunch of historical warts in CL. 23:20:42 Hexstream: yes, now I know the difference but the overlap is in this case intuitively inexcusable. unlike other namespace difference which can actually be useful. /rant 23:21:09 heh, wait til you find out nil the symbol is nil 23:21:14 Sgeo: Most of them have no relevance in practice. 23:21:20 my rant/point is what does the class "t" stand for if not truth and falsity isn't goddamn truth. 23:21:34 t stands for "everything" 23:21:37 vigil_ante: understand CL more. 23:22:13 oGMo: I understand lisp just fine. This is a ridiculous CLOS wart, not anything fundamental to lisp 23:22:27 For what it's worth, I think the Factor people adopted the same convention of using the name for the truth symbol as the name for the type of all values 23:22:29 vigil_ante: You're overreacting. 23:22:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.41.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:22:30 I might be wrong 23:22:43 don't call warts things you don't like/understand 23:22:46 vigil_ante, it kind of makes sense to me, for what it's worth 23:23:07 Hexstream: It cost me 2 hours of my time, it was worth a couple sentences of rant. the argument only continues because people are defending it 23:23:12 Would make more sense if nil was also the empty set when used as a type 23:23:24 vigil_ante: Learning is hard. 23:23:34 t and nil are opposites. nil is nothing, so t is everything. 23:23:39 Makes sense to me, kind of 23:24:34 Hexstream: learning about macros and closures and the sublties of lexical environments is worth my time. Stupid CLOS warts, not so much, but I'm not yet rich enough to fund the successor to Common Lisp (god help us, Clojure is the best we have?) so oh well. 23:24:51 dan64_ [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:00 can you please stop? 23:25:09 vigil_ante: You'd do best to master Common Lisp before embarking on a journey to supersede it. 23:25:11 As warts go, I think this may be the mildest one. 23:25:16 -!- dan64_ [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:21 Well, not the mildest. But among them 23:25:43 Lack of standardized way to tell compiler to do TCO annoys me. 23:25:50 i'd call it a well-thought feature 23:26:13 so is the point you're making the difference between an atom that is the empty set and not even having an atom? 23:26:27 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:30 As does lack of standardized networking (there's a library, but presumably it just knows all the popular implementations) and threading (same library situation) 23:26:31 Sgeo: I see lack of standardised TCO as a feature against recursion abuse. If you like that, try Scheme. 23:26:46 recursion abuse? 23:26:49 Hexstream, I'd like Scheme except for its smallness and fragmentation of the community. 23:26:50 TCO isn't useful only for recursion, y'know 23:27:09 oh man, why do maxima people not always put ffprec to some value in their tests....... 23:27:28 they just eval with ev(blah), numer....... 23:27:35 -!- Fare [~Adium@74.125.59.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:36 Sgeo: Scheme sucks, see Let Over Lambda. *ducks* 23:27:39 in those tests i see..... 23:27:45 Sgeo: frankly speaking, I'm not sure networking and threading belong in language standard 23:29:44 stassats: I'm not entirely clear on the details. But anyway, garanteed TCO does encourage recursion abuse. (I think it's pretty clear when you see people coming from Scheme lamenting that they can't reliably use recursion for a problem that doesn't actually need it because there's no garanteed TCO.) 23:30:04 "abuse"? 23:30:22 If recursion is a familiar way to solve a problem, it would be nice to be able to use it 23:30:28 Sgeo: Using recursion for problems where iteration is a perfectly good and intuitive approach... 23:30:39 I think you're confused Hexstream 23:30:43 Hexstream, for me, recursion is just as intuitive an approach to many such problems. 23:30:44 Sgeo: then it's not tail-recursion 23:30:55 Especially after having spent months with Haskell 23:31:18 let's see what you'll crave after months with brainfuck! 23:31:22 tomodo: About what? 23:31:35 programming in general 23:31:51 its true.. /me sometimes cringes what ppl are going through to avoid a simple (loop for ...) 23:31:57 tomodo: An interesting statement. 23:32:15 maxm-, I'm still pissed at the loop macro for not acting nested 23:32:30 It's hard to imagine why would you be saying this other than inexperience 23:32:40 Sgeo: that doesn't even make sense, LOOP can be nested 23:32:55 he meant the loop clauses like collect 23:33:00 stassats, but multiple for clauses don't do the same thing that a nested loop would do 23:33:12 of course they don't 23:33:17 because they're not nested 23:33:19 r_takaishi [~r_takaish@www5072u.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:33:20 tomodo: Inexperience with recursion abuse, that might be. But I have ~7 pretty solid years of CL experience. 23:33:37 can't do it without code walking really.. Well maybe through some really weird macrolets 23:33:49 is anyone (other than graham's arc maybe?) trying to build on the macro and lexical aspects of CL instead of the pure functional aspects? We don't need another scheme/haskell/erlang/clojure. If those work for you I mean great, but there are plenty of choices already. 23:33:49 but don't think you can do it portably 23:33:51 tail recursion is just goto 23:34:04 not true 23:34:29 tomodo: then what it is? 23:34:37 tail recursion 23:34:46 very clever 23:34:49 . 23:35:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:19 tomodo: Since I don't remember seeing you before and you say I'm inexperienced, I'm kinda intrigued to see your "credentials" (github account or whatever). 23:36:28 none 23:37:03 That's a relief. ;P Thought I had some gaping blind spot in my knowledge for a moment. Doesn't disprove that, but anyway. 23:37:04 he's a phony! 23:37:14 here in USA i had quickly learned to love the phrase "if you are so smart, why you are so poor" 23:38:03 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:46 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:38:54 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1310.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:49 tomodo, do you know what tail recursion means anyway ? 23:39:56 yes 23:43:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:43:47 it means "i'm not coming back" 23:45:53 Fare [~Adium@RLE-13-012.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:47:06 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:47:13 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:46 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:48:57 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 23:49:36 -!- machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:49:41 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:49:43 The compiler should TCO because it's the smart thing to do. If schemers abuse it, that's their loss. CL won't remain relevant by trying to pretend to be like whatever the pure functional language de jure is, but that doesn't mean tail call functions can't be intuitively useful beyond the "clarity" purely functional style brings. 23:51:08 machine2 [~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:30 Or to put it another way, any language that focuses on preventing abuse sucks. CL is so awesome precisely because it is the most abusable. 23:52:05 Fare1 [~Adium@RLE-13-012.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:52:18 vigil_ante: what exactly do you think you're accomplishing with this commentary? 23:52:19 -!- Fare [~Adium@RLE-13-012.MIT.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:52:21 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 23:52:33 ISF [~ivan@201.82.132.28] has joined #lisp 23:52:43 Fade it's in response to the above 23:52:44 if you want to win converts, #scheme and #clojure and #dylan are over there _>>> 23:52:49 Fade: relaxation. If I have no audience so be it 23:52:57 Fade: perhaps he's gearing up to start trolling about how awesome C is ^_^ 23:53:28 we will welcome the recruits, but you're in the choir loft in #lisp. 23:53:31 Fade: If you read my previous messages you'll see I am anti scheme / dylan / clojure /etc. in the strongest possible terms. Because they try to prevent "abuse" much, much harder than CL does. 23:53:53 vigil_ante, you're missing the point 23:54:09 The point is most in here _already_ agree that CL is the best. 23:54:31 I don't think I am. madnificient and Fade seem to not have read anything other than my last couple messages, which is fine but they completely misconstrue my point 23:54:55 Sgeo: yes. but I think that some friendly banter is sometimes in order to remind people why that is 23:55:43 what maybe the problem when i see 16 digits after comma in results of expresssions in maxima when running the testsuite and the expected result is shown to have only 8 digits after comma tho the expected result has 16 digits too in the test.mac file ? 23:55:46 vigil_ante: granted :) wrt to the macros: you don't necessarily need macros to have the same flexibility. some claim they don't need them. i don't know enough of the theory to prove them wrong, i can only say that i love lisp :) 23:56:51 you know that unhygienic macros are useful once you made your first recursive lambda function 23:57:08 hence my earlier question about if, admist the mountains of pure functional oriented choices (scheme, erlang, haskell, etc.), there are any languages that instead focus on building on top of the things that make CL uniquely awesome. Like macros and other insane lexical-oriented tricks. 23:57:22 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:57:24 vigil_ante: also, this channel isn't anti very much. it's mostly pro lisp (and we prefer to keep it limited to lisp). 23:57:24 madnificent: read Let Over Lambda. I understand 20% of that book and am proud of it 23:57:36 dan64 [~dan64@li58-98.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:03 so the test say it should have 16 digits but the running lisp is showing the expected result with only 8 digits..... 23:58:04 it's going to be one of those days, I guess. 23:58:12 I'm not anti either, hence my comment we should support tail call recursion in spite of Hex's anti-scheme comments (which I agree with, but that's not a good reason to ignore compiler optimization) 23:58:16 the results contain 16 digits..... 23:58:27 wtf is wrong ? 23:58:34 homie, does it work ? 23:58:36 vigil_ante: paul graham argued that lisp is made awesome because of *all* the features that it has, not just because of some of them. under that assumption, one would have to build common lisp to get something as awesome. and yes, many are doing that: ABCL SBCL ECL CCL CLISP ... 23:58:46 changing read-default-float-format does not change anything in that respect ! 23:59:04 The_third_man: what do you mean does it work ? 23:59:15 "you'll see I am anti ..." few messages down: "I'm not anti either" ENOUNIFY 23:59:26 The_third_man: the test fails with saying the expected result is something different ofc...... 23:59:28 madnificent: this is true, and he had a point. But it's like saying CL is great because it has garbage collection. Important, yes, but it's kind of a moot point in this day and age. 23:59:33 madnificent, does that include some of the names? 23:59:43 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:53 Surely terpri could be replaced with newline without losing expressive power in any way.