00:00:14 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-158-47.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:00:38 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-108-246.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:03:02 hmm, interesting code have not seen this before 00:03:20 Farzad` [~farzadbek@46.225.110.36] has joined #lisp 00:04:47 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 00:04:55 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.102.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:09 I don't immediately see whats the difference from arnesi and such? Arnisi seems to have no problems expanding macrolets 00:06:24 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:17:24 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 00:19:30 -!- ozzloy is now known as racket 00:20:09 -!- racket is now known as ozzloy 00:21:20 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:51 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 00:31:11 kai_ [~kai@f052101225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:32:32 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-71-227-84-167.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:07 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.44.57] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:34:55 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:40:27 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:46 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 00:40:54 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:40:55 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: brb, exploding. /msg Athanasius herro] 00:41:01 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 00:41:25 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:41:36 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:06 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 00:42:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:46:56 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-197-249.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:48:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-71-227-84-167.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:51:56 -!- maxm-- is now known as maxm- 00:54:42 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 00:55:35 -!- Farzad` [~farzadbek@46.225.110.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:38 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052101225.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:56 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-224.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:43 -!- djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:40 testingnetcat [~a@208.180.95.99] has joined #lisp 01:01:53 -!- testingnetcat [~a@208.180.95.99] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:36 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:05:24 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:08:17 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:08:22 *maxm-* just found how to customize @@ x,y y,z @@ hunk header text that git shows 01:08:54 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:09:41 you can specify the regexp in .gitattributes file for it, but .lisp in unsupported by default config... So you need custom regexp in .git/config to define [diff = "lisp] that defines right regexps for lisp to find hunk's block name 01:10:19 wondering if any project already has this configured, so i can borrow it 01:11:32 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: brb again] 01:12:14 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 01:12:14 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 01:12:16 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:13:02 Perhaps google code can help you? 01:15:51 seems very few ppl aware of this feature.. found one for .org files, but not for lisp...Funny enough none of the git based lisp projects have it either, did grep diff **/.git/config 01:16:15 guess I'll make my own and submit it as lisp tip 01:17:09 I have it 01:17:24 ah, can you paste pls? 01:19:30 http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/14919 01:21:03 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:21:23 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 01:22:46 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@203.149.70.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:23:06 Just wrote METHOD-COMBINATION-EXPAND (CCL-only so far). It's pretty neat. 01:24:12 fe[nl]ix: thanks.. ~/.gitattributes does not work, it looks for ~/.gitattributes in project dir (found using strace) 01:24:25 unless there is different setting to make it look for ~/.gitattributes as well as ~/.gitconfig 01:24:53 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 01:25:30 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:56 does this look cool or what, shows the right defun name after @@ 01:26:05 http://i.imgur.com/HwU8t.png 01:28:34 snazzy. 01:36:13 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: aaaand, brb again] 01:38:08 Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:39 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:06 Froward [~PANZERKON@64.134.68.226] has joined #lisp 01:41:21 dan64_ [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:31 quazimodo [~quazimodo@203.149.70.202] has joined #lisp 01:45:44 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:44 -!- dan64_ is now known as dan64 01:46:05 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 01:46:42 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 01:49:23 -!- Sgeo [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:06 Sgeo [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:18 o.O at Edi Weitz 01:55:29 Sgeo: ? 01:55:50 He made/makes so much stuff 01:56:01 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:52 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:14 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 02:01:54 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:48 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:06 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 02:03:31 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-411511.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:03:37 Sgeo: we call it ediware. 02:10:49 that guy is hardcore :-) /me can only dream of such productivity.. I have probably same amount of projects, but none of them in releasable state. Took me 3 month to barely make one meager library publishable 02:12:08 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.53.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:49 -!- ddp [~ddp@64.134.232.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:13:15 maxm-: well, for one, he's never on irc. 02:13:29 makes sense that 02:17:37 cbp` [~user@187.208.9.159] has joined #lisp 02:18:00 ddp [~ddp@64.134.232.36] has joined #lisp 02:24:40 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 02:25:02 for two, he just writes code, and Gets The Job Done 02:25:08 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:09 he's actually really impressive, as far as the quality of code he spits out and the time it takes him. 02:26:50 because he sits down and writes code 02:27:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.139.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27:57 *|3b|* thinks "sits down and writes /docs/" is actually a bigger part of why ediware is nice :p 02:28:02 the quality and consistency of his docs is worth highliting too 02:28:07 beat me to it 02:30:41 |3b|: He writes docstrings for everything! 02:30:44 while developing! 02:30:47 !!! 02:31:18 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128138179.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 02:31:23 I prefer to aim at writing code that's clear per se. 02:31:27 :-) 02:33:31 pjb, Some people say documentation and comments could be supplanted by clear and concise code, but I tend to disagree. Unless the architecture and logic is trivial to follow, then it's a disservice to others' understanding to not provide it. ;) 02:35:47 |3b|: I agree, would like to know what he uses to generate his pages 02:36:26 <|3b|> doesn't it have a link at the bottom of the docs or something? 02:36:30 *maxm-* tried started log4cl quickstart guide with org mode, but quickly gave up (too many start_src/end_src), ended up with markdown 02:36:32 maxm-: it does 02:36:37 http://weitz.de/documentation-template/ ? 02:36:49 oh actually, not all of them do, I guess. 02:37:00 I want a good literate programming system for lisp 02:37:04 that integrates well with slime 02:37:05 but would have been nice to have colorized REPL type code blocks, like he does 02:37:33 Quadrescence: I have seen brave warriors go down that road. They have fun. Then they stop doing it and you never hear about it from them again. 02:37:49 theconartist: cool thanks, have not seen it before 02:37:51 *|3b|* uses markdown + colorize for nice colorized code 02:38:04 sykopomp, the hardest thing about doing it is when you don't have a good plan for your code 02:38:12 when you're refactoring every day out the wazoo 02:40:10 to minimize refactoring /me learned over the years certain techniques help. 1. Use clos objects for everything.. Even if it just a pair, you think "I'll store it in a cons", but eventually you'll need 3rd thing in there, and your code will look ugly 02:40:31 maxm-, well the real lesson there is data abstraction 02:41:06 funny, I learned the opposite lesson. 02:41:07 if you have semantically meaningful data, then give it syntactically meaningful form, even if that means calling MAKE-POINT instead of CONS. 02:41:32 sykopomp, I don't agree with the CLOS objects for everything part. 02:41:51 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436662.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:41:57 2nd is to not to be lazy to define good print-object methods for your objects 02:42:30 maxm-, what good does that do? 02:42:40 makes debugging easier 02:42:48 and prettier 02:42:52 Ralith, Doing it for every single thing? 02:43:06 do you tend to define massive numbers of new types? 02:43:13 if so, I suspect you're doing something wrong 02:43:16 depends what I'm doing! 02:43:40 or better yet, what I want the compiler to be doing 02:43:48 Quadrescence: helps a lot when reading stack traces, or experimenting with things in REPL 02:44:18 Also, I will tend to use structs more often, and they print fine by default for most things 02:45:00 maxm-: you realize you can inspect objects in backtraces, right? 02:45:08 and in the repl? 02:46:44 sykopomp: yes I know that, but still having a nice print function for the object is nice. different strokes for different folks, I'm saying what works for me 02:47:08 I actually find structs pretty annoying because they print too much. 02:47:11 :\ 02:47:20 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D93A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:52 sykopomp, yeah sometimes, in which case printing their identity is usually fine 02:48:55 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A583.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:29 -!- kpal [~kpal@5ac28f05.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:52:56 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 02:53:11 kpal [~kpal@5ac28f67.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 02:53:32 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:17 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:55:23 sykopomp: often you've got several objects of interest in a backtrace, so it helps to be able to casually judge them without inspecting them one at a time. 03:01:19 RomyRomy [~stickycak@64.134.98.251] has joined #lisp 03:02:30 -!- Froward [~PANZERKON@64.134.68.226] has quit [Quit: even in laughter, the heart of Snorlax is sorrowful. and the end of that mirth is heaviness.] 03:03:02 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:05 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 03:04:39 teggi [~teggi@113.172.44.162] has joined #lisp 03:10:26 sykopomp: that's where defining a print-object method comes handy. 03:15:01 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:18:12 pjb: indeed 03:18:22 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 03:18:46 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:19:46 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.207.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:20:06 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:15 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:59 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:02 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:28 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 03:27:00 leo2007 [~leo@111.194.101.182] has joined #lisp 03:32:26 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.240.205] has joined #lisp 03:32:35 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.240.205] has quit [Changing host] 03:32:35 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 03:33:11 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A353E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:56 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:33:59 ...why does cl-stm have :use :cl-user 03:34:13 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:35:02 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:02 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-stm/doc/tutorial.html 03:36:09 What an impressive "tutorial" 03:36:37 You could demand your money back. 03:36:52 because it's not like it's in development or anything 03:38:25 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 03:38:58 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436662.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 03:39:09 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:20 *Sgeo* smiles at ChanL's intro thing 03:42:56 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 03:44:49 Hmm, so Haskell channels are somewhat like ChanL bounded-channels with infinite boundsa? 03:44:54 (which don't exist) 03:45:09 erm, buffered channels 03:45:16 ChanL has a variety of different channels to fit your channeling needs. 03:45:28 I forget if there are buffered unbounded channels, but it would make sense if there weren't 03:45:37 Wow, I think I must have a short attention span :/ 03:46:19 unbounded-channel 03:46:20 Ok 03:46:22 >.> 03:46:25 one thing to note about ChanL is that it doesn't demux very well at all. It's good (and fairly fast) at channel-to-channel interactions, though. 03:46:30 demux? 03:46:36 the select thing 03:48:23 sykopomp, what is your favorite library to use that is not your own 03:48:43 Quadrescence: he likes postmodern 03:48:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:49:00 sykopomp, I note that there hasn't been any commits for two years 03:49:19 Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 03:50:41 sykopomp, and what do you mean "doesn't demux very well"? 03:50:48 Is it slow to do so, or what? 03:51:10 it thrashes 03:51:23 instead of sleeping until one of the possible interactions is available 03:51:41 it just thrashes until one of them happens to succeed, if ever. Busy-wait or whatever. 03:52:04 Quadrescence: funny. I rarely use my own libraries. 03:53:14 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:21 Sgeo: I believe calispel is in better condition than chanl. Speaking of non-syko-ware. 03:53:34 Quadrescence: and yes, I think Pomo is definitely one of my favorites. 03:53:40 Hmm, ok 03:55:37 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:56:10 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@64.134.98.251] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 03:59:08 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@141-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:32 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.10] has joined #lisp 04:03:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.191] has joined #lisp 04:03:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:55 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA10C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:31 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 04:08:03 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 04:10:29 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:17 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:17:05 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:37 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0A28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:17:44 evening 04:17:48 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:19:41 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 04:22:20 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-224.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 04:22:44 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:24:05 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-224.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:29 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:37 -!- dsp1 [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:24:56 dsp1 [~dsp@cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 04:27:14 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:27:33 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-197-249.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:29:03 -!- devhost [~devhost@174.143.148.179] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:29:24 Some people say not to use macros often or at all because it usually hinders the ability to understand what is happening in code. Does anyone agree with this? 04:29:56 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:29 *|3b|* assumes no sane people do 04:30:42 <|3b|> CL would be pretty hard to use without things like AND and OR 04:30:44 Quadrescence: use them sparingly, and it's okay 04:30:58 <|3b|> don't use them when you don't need them 04:31:10 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 04:31:16 I thought someone in here said that statement, but it was a while ago. 04:31:16 devhost [~devhost@174.143.148.179] has joined #lisp 04:31:47 |3b|, I think that rule of thumb is pretty poor, because it doesn't exactly say what necessitates using a macro. 04:31:49 <|3b|> any tool can be misused, powerful tools possibly more than less powerful tools 04:31:55 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:31:55 -!- r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:31:59 if you don't know if you should use macros, don't use them :D 04:32:14 "if you need to ask, the answer is probably no" or something like that. 04:32:25 r126f [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #lisp 04:33:19 By "use macros" I don't think invoking them was meant, but creating them. 04:34:33 levi, yes 04:34:42 *|3b|* also makes some distinction between "library code" and "large end-user application" code, with much more freedom given to the latter 04:34:53 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-134-132.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:35:14 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:35:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:35:38 that was my weak attempt to start some kind of HoT dIsCuSsIoN about lisp 04:35:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:51 There's something to be said for having programs consist mostly, if not entirely, out of well-known syntactic forms. 04:36:22 unless you are hungarian 04:36:29 ^_- 04:37:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:37:09 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:37:13 you and your sweeping generalizations 04:37:22 It makes it easy to bring new people familiar with the language up to speed on a codebase. Easier, anyway, than if they had to learn a bunch of new language extensions. 04:38:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:10 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:41 <|3b|> that's one of the main reasons i have for being more permissive in end apps... people looking at that code want to work on that app, people looking at a lib probably just want to fix it and get back to their app that uses the lib 04:38:59 true 04:39:26 libraries that are to be released elsewhere should keep somehow to "idiomatic" CL 04:39:33 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:39:49 i rarely use something else than with-x and def-y macros, and those are fairly idiomatic to be understood 04:39:56 On the other hand, macros can go a long way towards eliminating the sort of nasty inconsistencies that crop up when you have to do a whole bunch of the same sort of boilerplate with the native language. 04:39:58 a specific application? ... hehehehehe, mine typically start by providing a replacement for CL package 04:40:10 p_l, haha 04:40:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:40:50 the only macros that have bothered me are non-optional reader macros 04:41:13 Quadrescence: I have a small "lib" that covers "patches" like closer-mop and conduits 04:41:30 and the rest of the code uses that instead of :cl 04:42:47 -!- bzzbzz_ [~franco@modemcable151.155-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:43:40 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:37 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:46:11 so 04:46:49 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 04:47:22 hypercube32 [~hypercube@246.111.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:49:25 I have a column of rows, each holding a string that is associated to some data object. I'd like to move the strings up and down relative to each other, how would you guys do it? My first tought is to rank them 1 to n, then as i move a string it swaps its rank with either the one below or the one above 04:49:32 does this seem 'corrcet'? 04:49:33 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host155.201-253-134.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:50:16 if that's what you need 04:50:22 For an example of the sort of macros that lead people to talk about how they make it impossible to understand code, look at what the early Bourne shell source code looks like: http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V7/usr/src/cmd/sh/blok.c 04:50:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:51:06 stassats, i'm not sure, i am still new so i dont know what are some good ways 04:51:14 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 04:51:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:49 it's not a CL question, it's general programming 04:51:52 Obviously lisp macros would be a lot more sophisticated, but remaking the syntax of the language just because you feel like it is definitely macro abuse. 04:52:47 stassats: should I ask it elsewhere? 04:52:58 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:59 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:53:14 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:53:41 levi, i made the useful macro %x for integer x to mean (the fixnum x) 04:54:00 i suggest you to think about it yourself 04:54:33 *|3b|* wonders how much code that macro would break 04:55:11 :) 04:55:49 <|3b|> also, if you mean literal integers (as in %123) rather than a variable, you need a better compiler :p 04:56:58 yes I mean literal integer (but perhaps also a variable). Perhaps it is indeed useless. 04:57:01 Quadrescence: did you notice that % is "unofficially reserved" by typical coding conventions? :) 04:57:26 p_l, yes I am perfectly aware, which is why it's in a named readtable and used in very certain portions of my code 04:57:47 uff 04:59:05 *|3b|* tends not to use THE anyway 04:59:37 It's for bignum code, intending to replace bignum code in, say, a compiler 05:00:15 saschakb__ [~saschakb@p4FEA06AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:01:57 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@90.154.203.198] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:02:20 Can anyone think of a better way of performing this task? http://paste.lisp.org/display/127966 05:03:24 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 05:03:42 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0A28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:04:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:04:42 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 05:06:08 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:15 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:06:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:24 <|3b|> for i below (+ len chunksize) by chunksize collect (subseq str i (min (+ i chunksize) len)) ? 05:06:36 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 05:07:14 <|3b|> also, you should probably check chunksize for validity rather than just declaring it 05:07:38 Why do you say that? 05:07:48 <|3b|> because if you lie to the compiler, it is allowed to break 05:07:52 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:03 Quadrescence: a better way would be to use with instead of :with 05:08:03 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:03 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:07 and so on 05:08:13 stassats, >:( 05:08:36 stassats, I find the loop structure easier to read this way 05:08:46 <|3b|> a declaration tells the compiler it can assume that is true, and skip checks (or add checks, but you can't rely on that) 05:08:57 did you find it empirically? 05:09:01 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 05:09:28 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:29 |3b|, yes, this is the intention. Most reasonable compilers will put checks in with proper declarations. 05:09:33 -!- borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 05:09:37 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:40 stassats, yes 05:09:44 <|3b|> so if the declaration is wrong, you have made things worse on compilers that don't check (or in optimization settings that skip those checks on compilers that do verify declarations) 05:09:59 yes I agree 05:10:01 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 05:10:02 *|3b|* thought only sbcl and cmucl did that? 05:10:15 LispWorks does checking too 05:10:16 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 05:10:21 <|3b|> if you mean check-type, say check-type 05:10:28 Quadrescence: did you hook up an MRI to your brain and watched how much energy it spends reading the either way? 05:10:39 and := is vicious 05:10:53 stassats, whatever, doesn't really matter 05:11:21 -!- elliottjohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:11:46 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 05:11:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.181.27] has joined #lisp 05:12:00 elliottjohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:15 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 05:12:27 -!- ddp [~ddp@64.134.232.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:12:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.194.101.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:37 <|3b|> Quadrescence: also, wouldn't that first clause be covered by the second? 05:13:34 |3b|, looks like it 05:13:37 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:13:37 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14:12 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@246.111.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14:12 -!- prip [~foo@host199-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14:20 <|3b|> possibly confusing (in rare edge cases) to get some other empty string back anyway 05:14:41 prip [~foo@host199-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:14:53 Quadrescence: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127966#1 05:14:58 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 05:15:28 hypercube32 [~hypercube@246.111.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:16:05 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:40 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@246.111.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:17:22 stassats, looks good 05:17:24 thanks 05:17:30 of course it does! 05:17:59 *|3b|* supposes you don't even need the second clause, since the loop works fine with 1 iteration 05:18:06 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:14 "That is, languages that encourage abstraction lead to less habitable software, because its expected inhabitants--average programmers working on code years after the original designers have diasppeared--are not easily able to grasp, modify, and grow the abstraction-laden code they must work on." 05:19:24 *|3b|* isn't sure 'habitable' is a good word there 05:19:44 Well, it's the point of the essay the sentence was lifted from. 05:19:55 <|3b|> abstractions make it more habitable, it is just that trying to live somewhere someone else has been living for a long time is a bit strange 05:20:07 It's from Richard Gabriel's Patterns of Software 05:20:32 I'm not sure I entirely agree with him either, but it's an interesting argument. 05:20:39 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:20:58 Given "average programmers" I agree 05:21:03 *|3b|* wasn't completely disagreeing with the conclusion, just the wording 05:21:25 but we're in #lisp, so no average programmers here 05:21:36 <|3b|> or projects with more than 1 developer :p 05:22:02 Shortly after, he remarks that it's no wonder that C rules the world and Lisp and Smalltalk are niche languages. 05:23:57 i don't agree with such conclusion, code unreadable by average programmers can easily be produced in C 05:24:24 and then there's C++ 05:24:36 C is definitely abstraction-poor, though. 05:24:37 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:42 C and C++ beckon you with the lure of "this is easy" 05:24:55 Lisp simply doesn't lie about the complexity. 05:24:57 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:24:57 levi: because it was supposed to be a portable assembler with algol-like syntax 05:25:05 |3b|, stassats, final go at it: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127966#2 05:25:11 Okay, that's probably a lie and a cheap shot, too. But it felt good to say. 05:25:15 C++ was what happened when some people forgot that 05:25:32 except I think I will take out that OR, because it's not clear what's happening and why 05:26:11 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:14 ruined my loop with those pesky colons! 05:26:44 ha 05:26:46 <|3b|> oh yeah, forgot about empty strings 05:27:16 why hello Quadrescence. 05:27:32 The OR is perfectly clear 05:27:54 i think it takes the same effort to read either code (save for := and for :collect :key-of-plist), but the fact that you can see both ways in the wild is what makes it hard 05:28:01 docAvid, I didn't find the conditions under which the loop would return NIL clear 05:28:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28:25 are clear* 05:28:29 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 05:28:41 <|3b|> yeah, an explicit check would be reasonable there 05:29:16 *|3b|* isn't sure if always returning the original string when not splitting or always returning a copy would be better though 05:29:52 |3b|, Tell that to SORT! 05:30:28 Cosman246 [~user@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:30 ayushj [~ayushj@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:44 <|3b|> you can build a non-destructive sort out of SORT if you want one 05:30:50 yes of course 05:32:05 Actually, you may have a good reason, but isn't the empty list more correctly descriptive of "no chunks" then a list with an empty string? 05:32:36 why do you need to chunk a string into chunks anyway? 05:32:48 stassats, bignum parsing 05:33:35 docAvid, maybe so. I can't think of a good reason. In fact, perhaps NIL is more consistent. 05:33:36 then you don't need to create copies of the string, do you? 05:33:46 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 05:33:53 stassats, no, not for my application 05:34:55 -!- Sgeo [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:38 docAvid, I think my reasoning was that (apply #'strcat list) should return the original string. But it makes sense to have this hypothetical STRCAT (perhaps it's just CONCATENATE 'STRING) return "" when provided no arguments, which is indeed the behavior of CONCATENATE. 05:36:40 Quadrescence: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127966#4 05:37:25 stassats, good abstraction! 05:39:38 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:51 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 05:46:48 Is it possible to access the current set of optimize declarations portably? 05:46:54 no 05:47:33 darn, it'd be nice to have separate functions get compiled in some cases. X and X-unsafe versions of things. 05:52:38 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-115-181.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:36 Quadrescence: Use #+ and #+ and push things on *FEATURES* 05:53:41 umm, #+ and #- 05:54:29 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:54:34 Quadrescence: i'm almost finished encoding the edit-down of this new screencast 05:55:35 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-224.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:55:46 cool 05:56:16 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01:37 stassats, i bet that you would also dislike my habit of doing (:conc-name struct-name.) 06:02:01 yes, i do 06:03:01 my reason: A-B-B is ambiguous! Is it A.A-B or A-A.B? 06:03:57 oops, I mean A-B.B or A.B-B 06:04:12 Or really, with any A-B-C combination. 06:04:44 i've never found that to ambiguate me 06:05:13 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8DD61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:07:00 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:07:06 \leave 06:07:10 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has left #lisp 06:07:57 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: bye!] 06:08:52 Quadrescence: http://blocky.io/blocky-lightning-talk-4.ogv 06:08:53 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:09:02 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8F68E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:39 Cosman24` [~user@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:42 CrazyEddy [~merocele@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 06:11:05 -!- ayushj [~ayushj@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:11:15 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:44 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128138179.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:11:58 -!- Cosman24` is now known as Cosman246 06:14:56 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-rdydarbexkbjpags] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:15:46 sunmix [~user@223.205.20.253] has joined #lisp 06:19:33 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 06:23:35 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177698380.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:23:54 ayushj [~ayushj@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:27 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:47 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 06:27:36 -!- CrazyEddy [~merocele@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:25 -!- cbp` [~user@187.208.9.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:39:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127968 I know this is perfectly valid, but is it possible for a SETF function's compiler macro to actually receive the literal arguments as the function would receive them?... 06:43:18 is it valid? 06:44:34 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.24.9] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:44:42 -!- rme [rme@13FF0A92.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:44:42 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:45:18 actually, I'm not even sure about that. 06:45:49 CrazyEddy [~typhonic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 06:46:02 i say it's a bug in SBCL, but i'm not an avid user of compiler-macros, so i may be missing something obvious 06:46:23 it would certainly be nice to have access to this in SBCL, at least. 06:46:24 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:48:57 clisp prints #:NEW-4762 as well 06:49:11 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-11.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:49:13 CCL actually gives me the argument, fortunately. 06:49:16 CCL prints the right thing 06:49:23 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 06:50:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:51:34 well, that has nothing to do with compiler macros 06:52:07 (defun (setf bar) (new) new) (macroexpand-1 '(setf (bar ) 1)) => (LET* () (MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND (#:NEW1453) 1 (FUNCALL #'(SETF BAR) #:NEW1453))) 06:52:24 rather strange expansion, i would say 06:52:38 right, which is why I'm wondering whether it's reasonable to hope for compiler macros to work on setf functions. 06:53:04 they work, you just have to check for CONSTANTP 06:54:52 well, they expand, but they're not really going to be useful for this purpose, are they?.. 06:54:57 or am I missing something? 06:55:22 compiler-macros are never guaranteed to be useful 06:55:24 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:55:53 but it would be *nice* if they could be useful, in this particular case. 06:56:01 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:27 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 06:57:03 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 06:57:44 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:58 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:59:44 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 07:04:24 Sgeo [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:25 -!- CrazyEddy [~typhonic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:06:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:07:30 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 07:13:18 venk [~user@r49-2-6-166.cpe.vividwireless.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:14:21 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 07:15:09 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 07:16:12 Does slime currently require emacs 24? or is 23 ok? 07:16:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:16:25 no 07:16:33 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:18:10 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 07:18:28 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.187] has joined #lisp 07:20:01 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host155.201-253-134.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 07:23:43 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 07:25:11 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:26:01 CrazyEddy [~querimony@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 07:26:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178.88.91.232] has joined #lisp 07:26:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178.88.91.232] has quit [Changing host] 07:26:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:27:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 07:28:08 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:30:53 TheNegativeOne [~TheNegati@client-66-116-3-52.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:15 -!- CrazyEddy [~querimony@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32:18 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 07:32:51 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:46 *Sgeo* has an idea for a macro that does what he really wants 07:33:47 >.> 07:34:04 But I'm sure there's some library that provides it somewhere 07:35:09 i haven't seen a macro named "what-sgeo-wants" 07:36:10 I think dolists (which behaves differently from loop with several for clauses) might accurately describe what I want 07:36:13 As being nested dolist 07:36:29 I should just write the macro to see if I can 07:42:05 -!- TheNegativeOne [~TheNegati@client-66-116-3-52.consolidated.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 07:44:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:45:00 it should be trivial 07:45:20 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:29 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 07:47:43 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:49 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-197-249.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:52:39 I should go to sleep now 07:58:26 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 08:03:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:04:14 Is there anything specific that has to be done to get slime-edit-definition to work? (declaim (debug 3)) perhaps? 08:05:04 CrazyEddy [~only@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:05:31 depends on implementation 08:06:03 slime-edit-definition should work everywhere with default debug settings 08:09:52 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.207.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:10:55 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-134-132.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:32 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-56-150.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:21:22 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23:57 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 08:25:30 sunmix` [~user@171.4.113.237] has joined #lisp 08:25:50 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:16 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 08:27:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.191] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:27:08 -!- sunmix [~user@223.205.20.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:27:57 -!- ayushj [~ayushj@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:28:32 -!- sunmix` [~user@171.4.113.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:29:00 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-56-150.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:32 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-56-150.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:31:23 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-56-150.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:37 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-115-181.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:32:17 bubo [~bubo@178-191-218-95.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 08:35:24 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-120-138.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.207.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:38:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-63.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep.] 08:41:59 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:06 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-397538.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 08:48:04 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-197-249.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:58 -!- venk [~user@r49-2-6-166.cpe.vividwireless.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:54:25 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:44 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 08:55:57 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:23 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:06:29 -!- bubo [~bubo@178-191-218-95.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:07:36 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:08:08 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:22 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 09:09:28 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 09:10:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:58 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD939.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:40 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:24:20 ElPenetreitor [~cornpoop@200.79.150.72.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:22 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:30:15 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 09:32:51 2/lastlog marijn 09:34:54 who here hates niggers? 22:21:38 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:38 22:21:38 -!- names: ccl-logbot rme_ Ashii s0ber airolson tali713 homie wbooze dnolen Guthur urandom__ Kyril MoALTz_ simon_weber puchacz Sgeo ISF kilon_alios tomodo AntiSpamMeta rvirding wuj naryl rotty_ galdor SHODAN poindontcare rabite_ tychoish OliverUv kleppari EdwardIII yan__ ``Erik zerd billstclair Jeanne-Kamikaze bege samebchase Bike Phooodus LiamH dl ch077179 asvil kuzary sigjuice lemoinem vairav pnathan toekutr apathor mathrick ASau` pchrist Mandus _schulte_ lebro 22:21:38 -!- names: totzeit macrobat Kron sousousou anonus gravicappa yoklov cbp` ko1 EarlGray^^ djuber CrazyThinker ivan-kanis micro___ arnsholt hugod ivan\ kwmiebach EyesIsServer gaidal segfault_ timb benny n1tn4tsn0k cyphase kennyd tvaalen Xach otwieracz daniel___ CrazyEddy hagish_ nowhere_man jkantz sigi-ntb tensorpudding cods cmbntr superflit kpal ghuntley dan64 kpreid killerboy zophy drl mrSpec drwho easye wakeup abeaumont prip elliottjohnson dcguru alvis stassats r126f 22:21:38 -!- names: devhost sanjoyd dsp1 parabolize brendyn araujo dRbiG Yuuhi`` Ralith quazimodo alanpearce gniourf_gniourf pspace Nisstyre oiir` foocraft Posterdati ecraven rootzlevel sawjig hyko SeanTAllen gffa hoverbear REPLeffect froggey Intensity zenlunatic p_l snorble_ df_ sysop_fb arbscht Fade j_king peterhil johs dfox__ |3b| The_third_man ghoti- dlowe jeekl cmm karswell theBlackDragon tempire BixSqrl dryman MrBusiness sykopomp finnrobi dmiles_afk Kvaks Vivitron 22:21:38 -!- names: docAvid izz_ reb Patzy cataska aoh newcup maxm- Demosthenes ramus Nshag Quadrescence scharan StrmSrfr daimrod Adrinael Praise Yamazaki-kun PECCU antifuchs fe[nl]ix ec tomaw Khisanth vpit3833 djinni` kanru phadthai Zephyrus gkeith_lt eMBee jasom Enoria qsun r_takaishi_ 16SAASELP C-Keen limetree_ Kovensky zbigniew Inode pkhuong guaqua literal xjrn howeyc gf3 frkout Amadiro ura yroeht Xof_ [SLB] sipo lusory stepnem adeht jlaire mon_key setheus Odin- eli 22:21:38 -!- names: vhost- redline6561 TristamWrk g0 ft kaol ihyoyoung_ kloeri spacefrogg^ daedric_ anthraci- blackwolf ianmcorvidae rson setmeaway mikekelly k9quaint rtoym levi austinh niko twopi Jasko clarkema tty234 November __class__ jiacobucci srcerer ChibaPet BrianRice sshirokov chr gz Jabberwockey mal nuba loke Bucciarati conntrack keltvek yeltzooo Obfuscate Corey freiksenet tswett drdo ArmyOfBruce shachaf erg flip215 cmatei Guest75069 gensym _root_ luis housel sbryant 22:21:38 -!- names: syrinx_ scode Utkarsh e__krappi _3b___ joast jaimef boyscared lnostdal oGMo ered copec FireFly DrForr rlb3 spacebat bsamograd jsnell cYmen Neronus Dodek tessier pjb __main__ lonstein em basho__ surrounder eno z0d vsync felideon BlastHardcheese Zhivago theconartist pokes_ Tristam fmu peterbb_ dcrawford billitch_ SpitfireWP ozzloy herbieB_ lsenta ineiros ve Euthydemus antoszka sepi nicdev_ foom jrockway Tordek axion drysdam_ quasisane acieroid koollman rdd` 22:21:38 -!- names: clog Axioplase_ felipe a7p sav H4ns ok2 guther mgr cpt_nemo gemelen madnificent joshe MikeSeth PuffTheMagic vimja mtd oconnore _stink_ jayne pok bps Borbus tic PissedNumlock xristos 22:23:01 *dl* likes specticl! :) 22:24:56
Xach: thanks also for fixing the ABQLisp/Scheme meeting time on your (oh-so-useful) calendar! 22:27:06 dl: slyrus is in ABQ today, but only on the way to the airport 22:27:08 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has joined #lisp 22:27:25 He was remarking on the coincidence with the meeting that helped me realize my error 22:28:01 It wasn't a tragic near miss 22:28:19 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:33 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:51 -!- k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:28:52 I know a ccl hacker who lives in ABQ, but I don't think he likes meetings. 22:29:06 k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:14 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:22
rme_: bummer! 22:40:01 -!- Sgeo [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:40:22 osa1 [~sinan@78.175.217.204] has joined #lisp 22:40:52 Sgeo [~sgeo@ool-ad034d00.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:44:33 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:45:56 nerds of a feather hack together 22:46:14 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:47 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:50 Is there anything like XSLT for s-exps? And please don't say "macros" :) 22:52:48 -!- ASau` [~user@176.14.69.54] has quit [Quit: reboot] 22:53:58 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:13 docAvid: i haven't seen anything like that 22:54:31 Modius` [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-118-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:55:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:56:05 Yes, it's to close to your nose. The whole lisp language is XSLT for sexps! 22:56:10 Not really. 22:58:13 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.175.217.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:41 ASau [~user@176.14.69.54] has joined #lisp 22:59:27 has joined channel #lisp 22:59:27 ERC> Xach: Thanks anyhow.. I didn't find anythign through Google either. 23:00:26 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:54 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-28-207.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:07 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:06:24 docAvid: Xach: see http://paste.lisp.org/+2QRA 23:06:46 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:09 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:11 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-408021.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:16 ironChicken [~richard@195.3.137.108] has joined #lisp 23:10:35 -!- ASau [~user@176.14.69.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:27 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:11:31 anyone know how to select a restart in ecl? 23:12:19 naiv [~naiv@AAnnecy-651-1-161-101.w90-48.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:12:35 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-118-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:12:50 pjb: Thank you... 23:14:19 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:30 ASau [~user@176.14.69.54] has joined #lisp 23:16:16 ironChicken: :c works for me 23:16:27 ironChicken: in the debugger, :help shows a lot of help 23:16:39 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 23:18:27 ironChicken: maybe you're looking for invoke-restart? 23:18:55 eek 23:19:05 C-d in debugger exits entire process 23:20:37 docAvid: generally if you looking to parse a tree, looking for patterns, with various tests, capturing sub-trees, generally you'll want a matcher, as described in AI with lisp book 23:21:19 Xach: *debugger-hook*. 23:21:22 slime. 23:22:04 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:20 you can write a trivial one in a few hours, at least the one that does something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/127992 23:23:40 *maxm-* does not post the matcher itself, because it works on custom clos objects and their children rather then lists, but the conceptually its the same 23:24:56 maxm: Also looks interesting... What do the question marks do? 23:25:37 docAvid: those are just symbols, I call my ast rules with them, so its easy to recognise them.. It just matches the tree structure of the passed object with the passed list 23:25:53 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:26:20 ie that root is of type ?stmt, first child of type ?assign, which has a child ?expr and a child ?if-return-stmt 23:26:25 maxm: Ah, thought for a minute there was some syntax I didn't know yet :) 23:27:13 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@178.47.224.59] has quit [Quit: Топинамбур?] 23:28:07 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:28:46 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:08 maxm: what book is that you mentioned? 23:29:13 docAvid: but anyway, google "paip common lisp book" and it will have example of a generic matcher, which is probably the closest thing to XSLT you can get 23:29:35 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@209-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:29:47 in fact i think the examples code is available online somewher, but not the book itself 23:29:57 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: /msg dax AntiSpamMeta died!] 23:30:31 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 23:30:34 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:30:36 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.80.67] has joined #lisp 23:31:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:32:26 Thanks maxm, I should probably get that book. 23:32:31 -!- hagish_ [~hagish@p5DCBEF31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:38 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:40 Ideally, I should try to get drakma running under iolib too 23:34:51 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:35:09 *maxm-* not really familiar with iolib, what does it do, aio? 23:36:24 Just io. 23:36:45 maxm-: some kinds, yes. 23:36:51 ah select/poll 23:37:03 also general UNIX API stuff 23:37:03 maxm-: it abstracts over the handling of multiple connections 23:37:21 there are so many libraries fighting for survivel of the fittest, its hard to keep up to date 23:37:27 plus it has a scheduler, which is what I really like 23:37:47 even if it does fall over if you try to have 20,000 repeating timers at once 23:39:21 as far as I know. iolib is the only one in its class. 23:39:31 unless you dare serve-event 23:40:13 *maxm-* had good expirience with boost aio 23:40:16 from c++ 23:40:28 very nice on modern linuxes 23:42:41 I wouldn't characterize anything involving c++, STL, or boost as very nice. 23:44:12 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.62] has joined #lisp 23:44:21 you can love both chocolate and bacon 23:44:41 chocolate and bacon are both delicious and can be had together. 23:44:55 I don't think either of them are appropriate metaphors for C++ 23:45:17 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:25 haters gonna hate. Bet you still played half life 2, or stalker, or any other modern PC game 23:45:38 guess what language most of them written in 23:46:52 maxm-: Guess how much pain they caused. 23:47:00 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:05 anyway its offtopic.. My point was that aio (as a technique independent of language choice), is a thing worth looking at if you into server 20k+ simultaneous sockets 23:47:09 yeah those games would have been way less fun if they had been writtent in a differen lang, sure... NOT 23:47:33 most modern technology is built through abuse. Foxconn factories in China, clothing sweatshops in south america, game development companies in americaland. 23:47:37 maxm-: yes. that's why I appreciate iolib 23:48:25 the way I understand it does not do aio.. aio is you submit write request, and it returns immediately, then you have separate call to get list of completed requests 23:48:40 so its kind of kernel level continuations for write() 23:48:56 getting input asynchronously is a real pain 23:49:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-104.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:10 maxm-: Well, I guess I misunderstand aio and you misunderstand continuations ;) 23:49:24 boost encapsulates it, you just give it bunch of workers, or an object represting worker pool, and a bunch of sockets 23:49:34 and it does the rest 23:49:39 maxm-: that's not how conventional event-based I/O multiplexing works, no. 23:49:44 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:52:00 sykopomp: My own technology is not built through abuse, only through my own work. 23:52:20 pjb: sure 23:52:37 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:59 it's pretty grossly unfair to rank corporate game development alongside sweatshop labor and chinese electronics factories 23:53:07 see http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-async/ 23:54:19 Xach: ta 23:54:26 -!- apathor [~apathor@c-24-218-104-106.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:55:14 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:08 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-8-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:58:01 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 23:59:13 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]