00:02:21 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:05:54 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 00:07:50 -!- ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:08:45 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 00:11:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:11:50 *Xach* emails clo-devel via gmane (hopefully) 00:15:06 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16:00 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:27 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:10 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:19:14 -!- Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:20:14 Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has joined #lisp 00:22:24 -!- jasom 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#lisp 00:42:07 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:44:34 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 00:45:24 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 00:48:48 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: good night] 00:49:46 StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has joined #lisp 00:52:45 Xach: FYI, aromyxo in QuickLisp isn't compiling for me due to some very creative non-ASCII characters in util/read-macros.lisp 00:54:15 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:34 superflit [~superflit@71-33-184-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:52 -!- Koven is now known as Kovensky 00:58:26 Best to start in a UTF-8 environment 00:58:28 Xach: admin@common-lisp.net would work, too. 00:58:46 Xach: i can fix, but not right now. 00:59:00 -!- X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:42 ok, thanks 01:01:24 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.89.154] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:03:57 Demosthenes [~demo@204.52.135.237] has joined #lisp 01:04:41 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:04:41 Xach: oh gosh, sorry. I thought I was, but I actually wasn't. 01:07:28 Xach: i can't reproduce the error, can you supply a command line that does? 01:07:35 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:53 H4ns: sure, just a moment 01:08:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.20.6.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:09:56 cvs -qz3 -d :pserver:anonymous:anonymous@common-lisp.net:/project/beirc/cvsroot co beirc 01:10:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-165.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:38 *H4ns* tries 01:11:08 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12:31 i remember to have fixed that issue years ago, but my memory is fading. 01:12:35 mathrick [~mathrick@176.20.6.28] has joined #lisp 01:13:08 ah, and i remember that the fix involved patching the cvsd binary \o/ 01:13:15 *Xach* boggles 01:13:53 *Xach* is underfond of cvs 01:14:45 *sigh* 01:15:01 *H4ns* uses the big axe 01:15:06 perl -pi -e 's/^LogHistory/#LogHistory/' /project/*/cvsroot/CVSROOT/config 01:15:11 Xach: there you go. 01:15:15 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:17:03 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 01:22:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:23:31 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 01:23:34 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:22 anyone care to comment/review this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127927 01:28:09 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 01:30:05 Felisp [Felisp@189.27.251.118.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:35:12 Hunh, I just came across some code of mine where I legitimately used the APPEND method combination. Thought I had only ever used STANDARD and non-built-in combinations. 01:36:58 sellout: congratulations! 01:37:08 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:38:56 *sellout* is curious to see examples of the other built-in method combinations being used properly (IE, no suit = pants + jacket stuff). Anyone have any? 01:39:04 Non-built-in combinations, too. 01:39:25 -!- LucasCampos [~lucas@186.212.159.239] has left #lisp 01:39:49 <|3b|`> mon_key: i'd probably use an AND rather than a bunch of WHEN/UNLESS + RETURN-FROM 01:40:53 |3b|`: But each method has to be specialized on a different class  can you show me how you'd do that? 01:41:26 <|3b|`> sellout: was responding to the paste from a bit ago, not method combination stuff 01:41:40 |3b|`: Oh, hahaha  ok, good :) 01:41:54 |3b|`: Since AND is one of the method combinations ;) 01:42:48 *|3b|`* thinks the only unusual method combination i've used is just reversing the order, not changing the results 01:43:43 |3b|`: Reversing the order of what? And which combination was that? 01:44:48 <|3b|`> least-specific first vs most-specific (don't remember which is default), not a standard combination 01:45:42 Oh, right  is it anything that's available online? I'd like to see it. 01:45:47 |3b|`: thats a big AND (: 01:46:26 <|3b|`> mon_key: probably smaller than the broken up version, once you get rid of all the RETURN-FROMs 01:47:08 <|3b|`> sellout: https://github.com/3b/3b-swf/blob/master/low-level/swf-deftype.lisp#L65 though i'm not sure that code is something one should really want to look at :) 01:47:50 |3b|`: *shrug* just decided to start collecting method-combination usages :) 01:48:25 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: vervic] 01:49:14 |3b|`: I see your point. The ANDing is an easy change assuming the methods are in working order. Thanks for your input. 01:50:49 <|3b|`> the 'both are adjustable' part might be better as (eql (not (adjustable-array-p a)) (not (adjustable-array-p b))) 01:51:16 <|3b|`> NOT because they return generalized booleans, so NOT normalizes that to T/NIL 01:51:18 |3b|`: Here's my terrifying method combination: https://github.com/sellout/quid-pro-quo/blob/master/src/method-combination.lisp#L81 01:51:29 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 01:52:54 <|3b|`> yeah, that one looks a bit more fun than mine (was more talking about the big macro a bit past the method combination being the scary part of my code :) 01:55:05 *|3b|`* wonders if the "add up size of nested structures" use case in my code could have use the + method combination 01:55:05 |3b|`: Why have a qualifier on your primary methods with your combination? Just to make them easier to notice? 01:55:13 *|3b|`* has no idea 01:56:07 <|3b|`> which could have been the reason at the time too, since i'm pretty sure i had no idea what i was doing then either :) 01:58:06 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:32 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:40 |3b|`: I don't think the + combination can do that for you  the famous (and hilarious) example of + combination is from On Lisp (IIRC) where suit is a subclass of both jacket and pants, and if you use the + combination on the PRICE gf, and have PRICE methods on jacket and pants that return 600 and 300 respectively, then calling PRICE on suit will return 900. 02:00:56 This is not something that anyone should actually ever think about doing. 02:03:01 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-18bc963b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:04:08 <|3b|`> actually, i guess 'nested' as the wrong word, since it is a class hierarchy 02:05:20 |3b|`: Well, maybe it could work  if you do it, please let me know. I'd love to see a good example. 02:06:13 <|3b|`> i think main issue is how often the size of the parent depends on the size of the child 02:06:51 *|3b|`* hasn't even looked at that code in ages 02:07:13 gko [~gko@27.243.201.86] has joined #lisp 02:07:47 just a brief off-topic diversion: if anyone wants to cut their teeth on a fun security challenge, we have a capture the flag game up at https://stripe.com/blog/capture-the-flag (: 02:14:33 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:14:49 antifuchs: I saw that  very cool :) 02:15:25 <|3b|`> antifuchs: "bash: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable" 02:15:51 yeah, we're bringing up more machines now (: 02:15:58 800 concurrent users/machine ((: 02:16:02 <|3b|`> heh 02:16:49 also, forkbombers gonna forkbomb 02:17:09 <|3b|`> yeah, suspected that would be the case 02:18:54 Hrmm, finding a bunch of custom method combinations  about half of them by Pascal Costanza. What a surprise. 02:20:06 Hadn't looked into filtered functions before (http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/filtered.html)  I have wanted to do that _many_ times. 02:21:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:23:10 echo-area [~user@121.0.29.249] has joined #lisp 02:23:55 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:42 |3b|`: wrt NOT of adjustable arrays. thanks. 02:28:30 <|3b|`> mon_key: might also want EQUAL when you compare the ARRAY-DIMENSIONS 02:29:19 <|3b|`> (which would indirectly compare the ranks as well, so you could skip that part completely) 02:31:53 nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:32:49 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:32:58 psilord [~psilord@c-24-118-208-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:26 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-24-118-208-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:33:49 -!- echo-area [~user@121.0.29.249] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:03 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-32-241.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:06 <|3b|`> mon_key: i'd use WHEN or AND instead of an IF with no else clause in the hash-table/hash-table method, and probably just return-from the whole function rather than adding a block to return-from 02:35:55 *|3b|`* might use OR instead of the outer IF there also 02:35:55 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-32-241.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:57 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 02:38:24 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA07CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:39:08 cbp` [~user@187.193.185.86] has joined #lisp 02:39:42 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 02:40:36 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:48 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41:02 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:41:30 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43:47 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:54 |3b|: http://paste.lisp.org/+2QPJ/1 02:44:33 What if they're displaced to the same array? 02:44:44 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:44:48 pjb: too risky 02:45:41 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:45:47 the assumption was that if one or both is displaced to then either might get adjusted later. 02:46:01 <|3b|> mon_key: (not (array-displacement ...)) is wrong, you want to fail when either is displaced, not succed when one isn't 02:46:05 <|3b|> *succeed 02:46:36 FWIW i think the whole displaced array thing is an ugly corner case in the EQUALS cdr 02:46:50 Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483A51F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:45 ikki [~ikki@189.195.65.30] has joined #lisp 02:47:48 <|3b|> actually, i guess the (not (array-displacement ...)) isn't the problem, you just put too much in the outer OR instead of the AND 02:47:57 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 02:48:08 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:48:14 |3b|: reason i resists the and/or -- i get lost 02:48:18 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 02:48:46 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D710.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:48:47 <|3b|> probably a reasonable reason to use a different construct then :) 02:49:13 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:27 so this then: (and (not (array-displacement a)) (not (array-displacement b))) 02:50:08 <|3b|> no, the (and (eql (...)) needs to extend to the rest of the cunftion 02:50:11 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.230] has joined #lisp 02:50:35 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:49 yep got it 02:52:05 *|3b|* wonders if (eql (ignore-errors (fill-pointer a)) (ignore-errors (fill-pointer b))) would be considered bad style, instead of verifying it has a fill pointer by hand first 02:52:56 it occured to me as well 02:56:01 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:58:17 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@204.52.135.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:01:34 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:01:58 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 03:03:40 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:50 <|3b|> mon_key: see annotation 03:04:33 *|3b|* doesn't see why you would check total size and rank separately, unless you expect changing shapes to be the common case 03:04:59 <|3b|> or expect arrays with lots of dimensions i guess 03:07:08 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has joined #lisp 03:08:28 cyyeung_ [~quassel@ip68-100-21-159.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:51 -!- cyyeung_ [~quassel@ip68-100-21-159.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:56 yoyoson [~quassel@ip68-100-21-159.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:03 hello 03:11:45 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-blaluwuifdbfnphb] has joined #lisp 03:12:35 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 03:12:55 Good night. 03:17:06 -!- yoyoson [~quassel@ip68-100-21-159.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:38 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.154.230.206] has joined #lisp 03:19:44 yoyoson [~quassel@ip68-100-21-159.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:04 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4CAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:26:47 df_: are you writing a tool to debug tcp streams? or is that part of some largr application? 03:31:46 -!- rme [rme@13FF0A92.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:31:46 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:31:55 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.230] has joined #lisp 03:32:30 jlongste` [~user@pool-98-117-65-239.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.65.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:34:07 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-98-117-65-239.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:42:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.125.17] has joined #lisp 03:42:07 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:45 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has joined #lisp 03:45:34 Does anyone have experience with getting SLIME + SBCL working in Kubuntu? 03:46:03 I get this when I try to M-x slime 03:46:09 READ failure in COMPILE-FILE: 03:46:09 SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR at 5611 (line 143, column 52) on # for "file /usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp" 03:46:09 {1002916A41}>: 03:46:09 package "ASDF" not found 03:47:33 <|3b|> don't use slime (or lisp stuff in general) from ubuntu repos if you can avoid it 03:48:02 ok 03:49:04 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:49:24 <|3b|> purge the slime package, get an sbcl binary from sbcl.org then get quicklisp from http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ and follow the instructions there to install slime 03:49:39 Xach: The clhs ASDF wrapper now correctly indirects through Quicklisp by default: https://github.com/Hexstream/clhs/issues/1#issuecomment-4130127 03:50:36 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:51:31 my original problem is that Kubuntu is using GLIBC 2.13 and SBCL seems to want GLIBC 2.14 03:51:37 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:39 -!- NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 03:51:41 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:52 So Im trying to use an older version of SBCL 03:52:08 but the latest SLIME doesnt like the older version of SBCL 03:52:20 which version? 03:52:32 1.48 03:52:33 btw, you can use an older version of sbcl to build a newer one 03:52:38 yoyoson: should work fine 03:52:49 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 03:53:12 <|3b|> either build sbc; from the distro sbcl, or get an older binary from http://sourceforge.net/projects/sbcl/files/ 03:53:54 <|3b|> (not much older, .53 or .54 should work if i remember right) 03:54:19 where is the lisp offtopic channekl 03:54:20 -k 03:54:28 <|3b|> Quadrescence: #lispcafe ? 03:54:28 lispcafe 03:54:40 Should I take this over to there? 03:54:45 yes but what a shame, few lispers are there 03:54:46 no 03:54:48 you're on topic 03:54:51 ok 03:54:58 yoyoson, i just asked so i could paste a song about murder 03:55:05 <|3b|> Quadrescence: good argument for keeping the offtopic out of this channel :) 03:55:19 <|3b|> if the people here wanted it, they would be there too 03:55:23 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:29 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:55:56 there's enough off-topic here, usually (don't take this as an encouragement) 03:56:04 So Im at 1.48 SBCL and when I M-x slime I get this: 03:56:08 compiling file "/opt/slime-2012-02-22/swank-sbcl.lisp" (written 06 JAN 2012 05:22:02 AM): 03:56:08 ; 03:56:08 ; compilation unit aborted 03:56:08 ; caught 1 fatal ERROR condition 03:56:08 ; compilation aborted after 0:00:00.033 03:56:10 ;; 03:56:12 ;; Error while compiling /opt/slime/swank-sbcl.lisp: 03:56:14 ;; Don't know how to REQUIRE SB-BSD-SOCKETS. 03:56:16 aa 03:56:16 ;; See also: 03:56:18 ;; The SBCL Manual, Variable *MODULE-PROVIDER-FUNCTIONS* 03:56:20 <|3b|> yoyoson: use paste.lisp.org rather than pasting into the channel 03:56:21 ;; The SBCL Manual, Function REQUIRE 03:56:23 ;; Aborting. 03:56:24 use lisp.paste.org 03:56:25 ;; * 03:56:30 will do 03:56:32 sorry 03:56:54 yoyoson: looks like your installation of SBCL is borked 03:57:05 *|3b|* suspects it just isn't installed 03:57:06 it has nothing to do with SBCL being old 03:57:21 -!- borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:58:10 Okay.. thank you all for your patience here.. I dont know how to uninstall sbcl after I ran: sh install.sh 03:58:58 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:11 <|3b|> did you uninstall any ubuntu sbcl? 03:59:19 I did 03:59:27 Maybe that borked it 03:59:29 with purge? 03:59:43 yeah I tried : sudo apt-get purge sbcl 03:59:49 it seemed to work 03:59:51 that's good 03:59:52 <|3b|> what does which sbcl say? 04:00:09 which sbcl says: /usr/local/bin/sbcl 04:00:31 yoyoson: can you run sh ./install.sh again and paste the results to http://paste.lisp.org ? 04:00:38 Sure 04:00:39 <|3b|> echo $SBCL_HOME ? 04:00:51 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 04:01:01 echo $SBCL_HOME gives a blank line 04:02:00 You know what 04:02:07 I never successfully ran "sh install.sh" 04:02:17 because when I did I got this : GNU Make not found. Try setting the environment variable GNUMAKE. 04:02:45 here you go, apt-get install make 04:03:57 Thanks, it's installing now 04:04:53 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:21 Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:24 whh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has joined #lisp 04:10:43 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has joined #lisp 04:10:52 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-68-107-217-139.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:11 -!- yoyoson [~quassel@ip68-100-21-159.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:15 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-63.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:11:46 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has joined #lisp 04:12:05 yoyoson [~quassel@ip68-100-21-159.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:34 After the sbcl install with install.sh I decided to try M-x slime again and it must have spun emacs into an infinite loop 04:12:42 or sbcl 04:14:07 try again 04:15:09 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:15:35 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:54 it worked!!! 04:18:37 Thank you stassats, and |3b| 04:18:58 and all others for saving me from breaking more furniture tonight 04:19:03 good 04:20:50 So in the end I just needed to install make 04:20:54 so that i could run install.sh 04:23:12 -!- jlongste` [~user@pool-98-117-65-239.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:24:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:25:25 -!- RomyRomy is now known as RomyBRB 04:26:20 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-63.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:20 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:31:01 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:32:30 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:35:55 -!- dronf [~user@host-46-186-32-201.dynamic.mm.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.52.185] has joined #lisp 04:35:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.52.185] has quit [Changing host] 04:35:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:36:24 -!- ered-away is now known as ered 04:37:00 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.53.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:39:19 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:56:15 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.67.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56:28 -!- antgreen` [~user@70.50.67.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:56:38 saschakb__ [~saschakb@p4FEA0FFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:57:10 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:00 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:22 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA07CF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:04:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:06:30 -!- davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:09:36 yog [~yog@122.172.27.110] has joined #lisp 05:13:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.20.6.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:14:20 am i right to expect (format nil "~,10@r" 10) to print " X"? 05:14:50 -!- borkman`` is now known as borkman 05:14:55 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 05:15:20 because it prints "X" almost everywhere i try, and " +10" on Allegro 05:15:28 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:15:32 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 05:19:40 -!- Felisp [Felisp@189.27.251.118.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [] 05:21:14 <|3b|> both look wrong to me 05:21:36 <|3b|> actually, i guess allegro might be ok 05:22:33 <|3b|> roman numeral stuff seems to be included in the "If no prefix parameters are given to ~R, ..." bit 05:24:20 that sucks 05:24:20 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:26 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:06 it would make much more sense if it said "If the first parameter isn't specified"... 05:27:57 icylisper [~icylisper@123.238.102.74] has joined #lisp 05:27:59 because if you want ~d, you know where to find it 05:28:50 <|3b|> yeah 05:28:59 and it says "If and only if no parameters are supplied, ~R binds *print-base* to 10.", why does it need to bind it to 10 if it doesn't print any integers without parameters? 05:29:56 <|3b|> well, it doesn't say what happens if the value isn't an integer (and most format commands default to ~a when they get the wrong type) 05:30:17 the standard should totally be updated, to fix ~r 05:30:23 (and PROG2) 05:31:04 mathrick [~mathrick@176.20.6.28] has joined #lisp 05:31:15 sbcl errs on "10" 05:31:17 *|3b|* ponders the evilness of intentionally using that fallback to ~a to get the bindings 05:32:16 as well as all other implementations 05:32:48 and it's right, it says "If no prefix parameters are given..." "The argument should be an integer." 05:33:19 and i can't print padded roman numerals! goddamn 05:33:48 -!- yog [~yog@122.172.27.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:34:03 <|3b|> yeah, not falling back to ~a is inconsistent there :/ 05:35:05 yog [~yog@122.172.27.110] has joined #lisp 05:35:08 maybe it wanted to mean if no first parameter is specified, to bind *print-base* to 10 05:35:13 <|3b|> (format nil "~10<~@r~>" 10)? 05:37:25 i actually wanted to print a fixed number of pad characters, so i would have no use of padding in R 05:39:20 to do (let ((x 10324)) (format nil "~v,,,'M<~>~@r" (floor x 1000) (rem x 1000))) => "MMMMMMMMMMCCCXXIV" 05:40:35 -!- yog [~yog@122.172.27.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:41:48 mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has joined #lisp 05:41:55 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:28 "~v,,,'M<~>~[:;~:*~@r~]", rather 05:43:45 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 05:45:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48:05 and again about the base, (let ((*print-base* 4)) (format nil "~,4r" 10)) prints " 10" on Allegro 05:48:18 while the spec says "If and only if no parameters are supplied, ~R binds *print-base* to 10." 05:48:42 looks like everything is broken, including the spec 05:50:32 <|3b|> ~v@{M~} is shorter than using ~< with pad char 05:50:44 indeed 05:51:43 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has joined #lisp 05:51:50 doesn't seem to do the above, though 05:52:46 ah, it is, if there are more arguments 05:53:04 <|3b|> yeah, binding *print-base* when N isn't supplied looks like a bug 05:56:05 -!- RomyBRB is now known as RomyRomy 05:57:09 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 05:57:28 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-91-213.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 05:57:39 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-91-213.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 05:57:39 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:58:24 psilord [~psilord@c-24-118-208-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:38 -!- psilord [~psilord@c-24-118-208-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:05:32 -!- yoyoson [~quassel@ip68-100-21-159.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:23 slime has an auto completion, riiight? 06:07:32 several 06:08:15 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 06:09:05 whats the standard useful one? 06:09:26 all are standard, fuzzy completion is the most cool one 06:09:36 i just tried it, it killed my life 06:09:39 M-V-B 06:10:33 i couldnt use backspace when i turned it on 06:10:57 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:11:04 that means you borked something 06:11:44 eg atm i type (dolist , and once ive typed that all in i get an idea of how to use it in the minibuffer, but it wont complete it for me or give me a list if i tab tab 06:12:20 how did you enable it? 06:12:28 slime-fuzzy-completion-mode 06:12:32 M-x 06:12:39 who told you to do that? 06:12:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:41 in the opposite order :P 06:12:51 -!- mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:13:03 um i just typed slime- and tabbed, then saw lots of stuff and this looked interesting 06:13:12 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-72.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:13:25 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has joined #lisp 06:13:37 that where you went wrong 06:13:48 put (setq slime-complete-symbol-function 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol) into ~/.emacs and restart emacs 06:15:19 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.181.27] has joined #lisp 06:15:19 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:52 maxm-- [~user@openchat.com] has joined #lisp 06:17:04 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:37 -!- maxm- [~user@openchat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:22:18 what actually causes auto completion? 06:22:36 pressing TAB in the repl 06:22:49 stassats: im working on a file though 06:22:52 a .lisp file 06:23:07 then pressing C-c TAB or M-TAB 06:23:19 or M-C-i 06:23:31 ahhhhh 06:23:32 cheecs 06:26:49 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:27:28 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:38 -!- saschakb__ [~saschakb@p4FEA0FFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:29:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:30:55 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:37 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.185.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:36:46 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:37:40 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 06:41:21 saschakb__ [~saschakb@p4FEA0930.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:41:24 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.154.230.206] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:42:46 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:38 I guess I should install paredit 06:48:40 Somehow 06:48:51 Oh, that reminds me 06:49:16 I had issues installing SBCL+SLIME on a Windows computer at school because emacs and sbcl disagreed about what ~ was 06:49:39 So the quicklisp slime helper thingy was put someplace where emacs couldn't see it 06:49:46 So changed the path in the ~/.emacs 06:49:59 But then quicklisp wasn't automatically loaded in SLIME like I expected 06:50:06 So I reinstalled quicklisp from SLIME 06:50:11 add-to-init-file etc 06:51:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:12 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:15 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:58:47 Sgeo: use lisp cabinet on windows. 06:59:12 "Yes, there is Lispbox, and it works pretty well, but it lacks such important feature as ASDF-INSTALL." 06:59:16 How old is this? 06:59:54 lemoinem [~swoog@18-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:38 not much 07:01:14 Hmm 07:01:22 I think I want this LispCabinet stuff on Linux >.> 07:01:34 I guess I could install the basic convenience kit by hand? 07:02:14 if you have emacs and sbcl installed, you don't really need any cabinets on Linux 07:02:30 "need", sure 07:02:36 But I don't know much about emacs 07:02:43 And some of the convenience stuff looks cool. 07:02:47 now is the good time to learn 07:04:24 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@18-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:04:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-72.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06:04 sunmix [~user@223.204.159.141] has joined #lisp 07:09:17 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-emdmakwqqfdkftoc] has joined #lisp 07:11:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:58 lemoinem [~swoog@18-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:46 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:15:40 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-234-174.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:17:14 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:17:19 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@18-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:18:58 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:19:57 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:20:52 Emacs is the kind of stuff you still use 20 years later, so it's totally worth it. 07:21:21 unless you lose your mind and switch to vim 07:22:21 or unless you find your mind and choose a proper ide 07:22:48 it's strange to see proper and IDE in the same sentence 07:23:07 unless you count Slime as IDE, of course 07:23:09 sad but true 07:23:35 I do 07:23:54 then there you go, Emacs is the proper ide 07:24:44 its does not suck and made by a big company so it cant be proper 07:24:59 :D 07:25:02 elisp doesn't suck? 07:25:10 Problem with IDEs is that you still have to change after a few years and have to learn again. And one IDE per language (except Eclipse...) ? Hum... IDEs are very helpful, though, especially with static languages with tons of libraries. 07:25:11 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:25:51 I cant yet find a reason to hate elisp 07:26:06 kilon: i can, Common Lisp 07:26:32 why you hate Common Lisp ? :D 07:26:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:26:48 who told you that? 07:26:57 elisp is meant to be used from inside emacs not as a full blown language like CL 07:27:12 at least that the idea I am getting 07:27:26 i use full-blown programs from inside Emacs 07:27:33 like, right now 07:27:44 (meaning an IRC client) 07:27:49 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-uthkxhymgtqgryzg] has joined #lisp 07:27:49 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-uthkxhymgtqgryzg] has quit [Changing host] 07:27:49 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:27:51 how they can be full blown if they are inside emacs 07:28:00 yes i am using erc now myself 07:28:11 i don't wish to continue this conversation 07:28:14 reb`: if you still want to hash strings, 's abstract looks promising. 07:29:41 wish granted 07:33:53 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:34:04 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:35:39 blandest [~user@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 07:36:32 TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5C8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:40 andersen [~andersen@116.236.150.19] has joined #lisp 07:38:16 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:38:50 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-10-74.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:40:58 Is macroexpand ever unreliable? 07:41:30 no 07:44:00 I've managed to make slime hang while compiling (using slime-compile-and-load-file), is there a good way to debug that? 07:44:27 what hung? 07:44:35 emacs or lisp? 07:44:40 lisp 07:44:47 the swank thread I guess? 07:44:53 have you tried interrupting? 07:44:57 yes, no effect 07:45:11 did you look at *inferior-lisp*? 07:45:37 yep, there's nothing helpful there and anything I type is ignored 07:45:53 well, I say nothing helpful... 07:46:07 have you tried killing it and doing it again? 07:46:08 STYLE-WARNING: redefining EMACS-INSPECT (#) in DEFMETHOD 07:46:12 may be relevant 07:46:16 it's not 07:46:20 yes, it worked for a little while and then hung again 07:46:30 can you paste the code? 07:47:32 it's a pretty big project over several files, not sure I can narrow it down to a snippet that will make it happen, but I'll try 07:47:53 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has joined #lisp 07:49:43 Is anyone concerned that the HyperSpec is proprietary? 07:50:12 Sgeo: no. 07:50:30 ah, it seems to be to do with the gray stream stuff I've done 07:50:40 no doubt I've done something stupid and broken streams altogether 07:52:00 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:54 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 07:53:46 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:53:51 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:54:33 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:56:39 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 07:57:01 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:57:39 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:57:46 good morning 07:57:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.181.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:59:46 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:00:33 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has joined #lisp 08:00:48 yep, I was redefining cl:read-sequence rather than stream-read-sequence :( 08:02:58 and sbcl didn't warn you? 08:04:27 am0c [~am0c@203.226.201.154] has joined #lisp 08:06:17 no 08:07:08 aib [kvirc@unaffiliated/aib42] has joined #lisp 08:08:11 hmm, though now I can't reproduce that 08:12:18 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 08:12:23 morning 08:13:57 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Client Quit] 08:20:32 kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #lisp 08:20:45 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl8-252-127.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:23:19 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:24:29 -!- guaqua_ is now known as guaqua 08:26:55 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 08:27:22 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has joined #lisp 08:27:27 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 08:30:41 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483A51F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:31:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-blaluwuifdbfnphb] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:31:41 Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:14 -!- am0c [~am0c@203.226.201.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:34:04 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 08:34:24 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:36:24 ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 08:36:43 df_: are you writing a tool to debug tcp streams? or is that part of some larger application? 08:37:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:38:13 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:39:15 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:39:15 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:39:15 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:40:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-63.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: die die die die die] 08:41:16 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:08 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:24 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128091118.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:46:20 mecenesiak [~tarnowpws@host-89-230-98-71.tarnow.mm.pl] has joined #lisp 08:49:12 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 08:50:22 http://www.sadistic.pl/nie-zasypiaj-na-imprezie-w-akademiku-vt105256.htm 08:50:43 how's that related to lisp? 08:50:46 and english 08:50:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ltsjkkpcsairtwdz] has joined #lisp 08:50:50 -!- mecenesiak [~tarnowpws@host-89-230-98-71.tarnow.mm.pl] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 08:53:20 *Sgeo* tries LispWorks >.> 08:53:33 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:59:33 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:00:57 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:01:10 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:02:15 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:26 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:03:34 aetoxx [~NewUser@gateway/tor-sasl/aetoxx] has joined #lisp 09:07:51 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:08:02 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:08:17 -!- sunmix [~user@223.204.159.141] has left #lisp 09:10:13 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:13 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:10:41 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 09:11:49 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:36 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@123.238.102.74] has quit [Quit: icylisper] 09:14:32 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-198.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:19:55 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-67-66-51-149.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:07 eMBee: unix socket streams 09:20:16 wayland ones specifically 09:20:41 it's part of a larger app in the sense that it's a means for me to both test my protocol parser and understand the protocol better by watching other apps use it 09:20:47 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl8-252-127.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 09:21:01 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:22:43 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:06 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:15 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:25:57 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 09:29:37 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:30:20 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 09:31:49 df_: mind sharing the code? i use a similar tool in another language, and i'd be interested in the lisp version for comparison, but it's not important enough to figure out how to write it myself 09:32:45 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-sxxrmqxjlyedusjy] has joined #lisp 09:33:26 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:26 eMBee: sure, when it works :) 09:34:37 :-) 09:34:41 though I'm at work atm so that won't be in the immediate future 09:36:39 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 09:36:50 sure, it's not like i am waiting for it now, thanks :-) 09:42:39 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:44:09 *Sgeo* gets a bad idea for his first macro >:D 09:45:47 *Sgeo* puts the macroexpander into an infinite loop 09:51:14 -!- Harag [~phil@wbs-196-2-121-101.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:53:27 -!- andersen [~andersen@116.236.150.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:54:15 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 09:55:56 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:55:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:56:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:57:23 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: router reboot] 10:01:23 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02:06 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-9.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.125.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:02:14 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 10:02:37 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:02:48 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 10:04:22 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-249-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:05:00 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:05:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.20.6.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:06:26 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:06:41 malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 10:07:54 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:09:04 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:09:07 -!- gko [~gko@27.243.201.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:09:19 yog [~yog@122.248.161.59] has joined #lisp 10:10:50 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 10:18:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 10:18:59 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:20:11 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 10:20:16 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 10:21:29 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 10:22:43 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:22:47 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:24:15 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-9.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:33 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:25:53 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:26:00 -!- foocraft_ is now known as foocraft 10:26:29 yakov_ [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has joined #lisp 10:29:36 -!- Inode_ is now known as Inode 10:30:29 Now that I understand CL a bit better, especially quote, I understand the distinction that picolisp draws with its quote thing that takes multiple arguments. 10:30:44 (And with picolisp omitting lambda in favor of quote) 10:32:28 Sgeo: your question was? 10:32:48 Hmm? 10:32:56 LISP 10:33:11 Was not entirely sure why they emphasized its quote acting the way it does, but in CL (quote 1 2) gives an error so I see the distinction 10:33:31 picolisp is rather primitive 10:33:47 Sgeo: you came here to talk to yourself or what? i don't get it... 10:33:59 what does (quote 1 2) do in picolisp? 10:34:26 Same as '(1 2) I ... think 10:34:44 Well, hmm, I may be wrong 10:35:07 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:35:49 "In traditional Lisp, the QUOTE function returns its first unevaluated argument. In PicoLisp, on the other hand, quote returns all (unevaluated) argument(s)." 10:36:35 interesting, what's this magical "traditional lisp" 10:36:45 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:47 in my limited experience i have not seen QUOTE ever accepting more than one argument 10:38:02 why don't you just learn Common Lisp and lay off all other marginal dialects for a while? 10:38:38 stassats, I played with picolisp some time ago 10:38:46 -!- yog [~yog@122.248.161.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:38:52 So have some (if not full) familiarity with it 10:38:55 (quote . a) instead of 'a 10:39:20 but but CL is big and scary! and it has this "baggage" thing, I hear it's very ugly 10:39:35 Syncretic abomination. 10:39:52 Sgeo: so why do you keep comparing it to Common Lisp? 10:39:53 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:40:07 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:40:32 Because CL's quote behavior helped me to understand that line of the documentation 10:40:33 >.> 10:40:48 so what does (quote 1 2) do? 10:41:34 tomodo, likely the same as what multiple-values returns in CL? 10:41:34 that looks like picolisp documentation, why do you use picolisp documentation to learn CL? 10:41:58 oh 10:41:59 I wasn't? 10:42:02 Or in the implementation it might put it on some stack or on the heap if its documentation is correct. 10:42:06 that doesn't make much sense at all 10:42:29 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:55 Sgeo: so can you tell what exactly (quote 1 2) does in picolisp? 10:43:07 : (quote 1 2) 10:43:07 -> (1 2) 10:43:08 tomodo, me? 10:43:17 : (quote (1 2)) 10:43:17 -> ((1 2)) 10:43:24 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:36 that's fucked up... 10:43:39 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:39 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:43:39 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 10:44:34 : ((quote (x) (+ x x)) 5) 10:44:34 -> 10 10:44:44 being in #lisp, i'm not really interested in picolisp 10:44:46 Makes quote more comfortably usable as lambda I guess 10:44:46 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:48 weird 10:45:17 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:45:22 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:45:23 '(1 2) is still (1 2) 10:45:46 Sgeo: i feel something inside me being destroyed, so please no more picolisp in here 10:45:52 so what does ((list (quote quote) (list (quote x)) (quote + x x)) 5) do? 10:46:23 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:46:28 x -- Undefined 10:46:28 ? Segmentation fault 10:46:29 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:46:38 oh well 10:47:05 I was pointed to picolisp after having expressed some interest in newLISP, iirc 10:47:16 Sgeo: shoo! 10:47:36 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:47:49 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:47:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:31 *facepalm* 10:48:48 i don't think anybody here takes seriously picolisp and newlisp, so you'd rather not mention them 10:48:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:48:53 and Arc 10:49:55 Are there lisps other than Common Lisp that this place does take seriously? 10:50:04 Actually, I think that newlisp has a couple of interesting ideas in it. 10:50:23 amidst a sea of nonsense 10:50:35 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 10:50:38 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:51:18 lemoinem [~swoog@18-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:26 I think that the most interesting is the lack of anonymity. 10:51:29 You know who else had interesting ideas? Hitler, that's who! 10:52:13 oh, come one 10:52:16 *on 10:52:20 Well, Hitler was a good Christian. 10:52:30 So what do you expect? Of course he had good ideas. 10:52:41 please let's not go there 10:52:44 Hitler managed to get people to stop smoking, didn't he 10:52:51 and he made the trains run on time 10:53:38 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:04 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:54:41 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:54:45 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:56:34 He also started many homosexual gatherings. 10:56:53 that's news to me 10:58:54 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:59:22 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:00:57 -!- whh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has quit [Quit: ] 11:01:47 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:01:59 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:02:33 tomodo: Well, history isn't everyone's strong point. 11:02:55 <|3b|> antifuchs: that last password is altogether too long :p 11:03:31 -!- EarlGray^^ is now known as EarlGray 11:03:58 Suppose I flet or labels a function but bind it to a function that exists elsewhere in the package. Will I typically get a style warning? 11:04:10 no 11:04:34 Sgeo: Unfortunately that doesn't make any sense -- how would you achieve that? 11:05:19 Zhivago: i think he just didn't express himself properly 11:05:27 It 11:05:41 i got the question as "what if you name a local function using flet with the same name as a global one" 11:05:41 The Thing! 11:06:09 It's just I'm worried about accidentally shadowing function names, and if I understand correctly the typical convention for dealing with hygiene issues at the function namespace is not to worry about it 11:06:40 Shadowing isn't binding. 11:07:00 Sgeo: in other words, FLET and LABELS have lexical scope 11:07:02 There's no problem with shadowing, unless you don't want to shadow, in which case, don't. 11:07:20 Sure, but some macros may not be properly hygienic against doing so 11:07:31 Zhivago: a binding may shadow 11:07:34 And use the wrong function (the locally defined one) 11:07:36 Sgeo: then don't use such macros 11:07:52 <|3b|> you aren't allowed to use symbols from CL as names of local functions, which gets rid of a lot of the hygiene proplems 11:08:11 jdz, I thought conventionally macro writers generally feel free to not worry about hygiene issues in the function namespace? 11:08:38 <|3b|> Sgeo: it isn't usually a problem in practice 11:09:08 yes, because sane people don't go around shadowing global functions 11:09:09 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:19 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:09:23 if you want hygenic macroes you should use scheme 11:09:25 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 11:09:32 it's scheme which has them 11:09:51 Scheme has a lot of things I want, but also insane fragmentation, which I don't want 11:10:16 I think you're excellent at finding fictitious problems 11:10:40 <|3b|> if you are worried about it, just don't expand to things you export, and don't locally bind things you import from other packages 11:11:48 That's a good way to put it. 11:12:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 11:12:10 -!- Intensity [gqiClL7OSn@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:12:24 I'm more worried about doing something stupid by accident 11:12:24 >.> 11:12:39 <|3b|> not importing much also helps 11:12:41 Don't worry, be happy. 11:12:42 don't worry, you will 11:13:24 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:40 vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:13:49 I'm still a bit worried about funcall. Do Common Lispers find that funcall (as opposed to say using a function-containing object directly at the head of a form) improves readability? 11:14:01 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:18 Sgeo: I find it beats spelling things LST 11:14:22 or KAR 11:14:35 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:14:38 That's one of my main complaints about python. 11:14:47 Xach: automobile? 11:14:49 Their lack of namespaces forces people to choose stupid names. 11:14:59 Klassy names 11:15:35 #' doesn't really bother me that much for some reason. Just the funcal 11:15:37 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 11:15:37 funcall 11:16:04 lack of funcall bothers me in Scheme 11:16:05 just accept it 11:17:53 Stupid question: Suppose I installed something with quicklisp. I close out of the REPL and re-open it. Without using ASDF, how can I get at the stuff that was installed? 11:18:08 use ASDF 11:18:37 <|3b|> load it with quicklisp and pretend quicklisp doesn't use asdf? 11:18:50 Can I do the ASDF thingy from the REPL? 11:19:05 Sgeo: you can if quicklisp is loaded. 11:19:15 Sgeo: otherwise you must teach asdf how to find what quicklisp installed. 11:19:36 quicklisp is loaded 11:19:46 then you can load it with (asdf:load-system "...") 11:20:50 Thank you! 11:20:51 i thought asdf was obsolete ? 11:21:00 but nooooo... 11:21:02 asdf-install is obsolete. 11:21:09 Which is separate from asdf. 11:21:09 zophy: ASDF is not obsolete yet 11:21:16 Yes, asdf-install ist tot 11:21:33 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:21:36 asdf-install was always obsolete 11:21:57 welp, i'm using quicklisp snd it made my children well mannered and above average 11:22:03 ASDF will soon be replaced by the Quicklisp Package Experience, or QPX 11:22:41 lol 11:22:43 O_o 11:22:50 Xach: i don't know what keyboard are you using, but on mine Q, P, and X are nowhere close together 11:23:12 Otherwise known as "not thinking about the underlying ASDF"? 11:25:19 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:35 ghjk is probably available for use 11:25:49 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:25:54 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 11:26:12 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:19 zophy, I've stole your quote ;-) you don't mind, don't you 11:26:30 mwyrobek [~mwyrobek@caq236.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:26:32 welcome to it 11:28:02 CL-USER> (functionp #'quote) 11:28:02 T 11:28:03 wat 11:28:57 funcalling it doesn't work 11:29:16 Sgeo: "it is an error to use function on a symbol that denotes a macro or special form. An implementation may choose not to signal this error for performance reasons, but implementations are forbidden from defining the failure to signal an error as a useful behavior." 11:29:19 <|3b|> using FUNCTION on special operators is undefined behavior 11:30:14 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:30:14 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ltsjkkpcsairtwdz] has left #lisp 11:31:25 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:33:38 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 11:33:51 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:34:44 -!- kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:37:03 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.122] has joined #lisp 11:40:20 pldn [~dvorak@77.226.151.243] has joined #lisp 11:40:44 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A51F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:58 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-56-96.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:43:19 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B3260A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:45 Intensity [EbMJBwL9Ml@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 11:44:40 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-234-174.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:45:46 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p508295E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:59 diginet [~diginet@adsl-67-66-51-149.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:18 kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #lisp 11:52:37 see, this is why in newlisp everything is funcallable! 11:54:38 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 11:59:35 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8627.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:01:12 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:26 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:03:29 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 12:03:41 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:04:04 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:31 -!- vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has left #lisp 12:10:59 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-198.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:15:40 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:16:09 stassats`: (define (funcall f . args) (apply f args)) (define (function x) x) (funcall (function +) 2 3 4) 12:16:36 In scheme, I'm more bothered by the lack of function. (map + '(1 2) '(3 4)) :~/ 12:17:24 What does ` and , look like in a list? 12:17:33 As in, what are there names, the way ' is quote 12:17:38 their 12:18:08 Sgeo: read the CLHS! http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 12:18:31 ` is backquote, , is unquote ,@ is unquote-splice. 12:19:22 Thanks 12:20:27 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 12:20:38 There's no standard s-expression equivalence of backquoted expressions, is there? 12:20:52 Sgeo: pjb did not mean to imply that cl actually defines operators with these names. 12:21:05 Odin-: no. 12:21:13 H4ns, thanks 12:21:26 Hmm, so does this make it somewhat hard to write macro-writing macros? 12:21:55 Sgeo: there is a learning curve. 12:21:55 Or, well not, because backquoting can be nested 12:24:49 Sgeo, clear your mind beforehand. 12:24:55 Odin-: There's no standard -expansion- for them, but that doesn't mean you can't write what would be a possible expansion with standard functions. 12:25:08 the learning curve is not that steep then 12:25:43 sykopomp: Sure. I just asked because that seemed to be the question Sgeo wanted to ask. :p 12:26:04 I should sleep 12:26:08 Sgeo, and get yourself a decent Lisp system ;-) 12:26:10 (define (ignore need-for-sleep)) 12:26:17 erm, oops 12:26:21 declare not define 12:26:34 yakov_, SBCL count? 12:26:43 nope. 12:26:47 with tools i mean. 12:26:49 LW. 12:27:02 o.O 12:27:30 *yakov_* spent a penny on LW and did not afraid of anything since then ;-) 12:28:14 where can i get lw for a penny? 12:28:44 H4ns, well :-) not a penny, quite a sum of money - ok 12:29:25 but it completely worths it! 12:29:39 You can spend many pennies on LW... or just use SBCL and have other people give -you- pennies for your fine work. 12:29:40 Sgeo: if you want a standard "expansion" for a backquoted form, you can write it yourself using list, append, cons, list*, etc. 12:29:49 have i more $ i would love to get allegro but then again they have not that friendly licensing .. 12:30:10 yakov_: i'm not saying that lw is bad, i'm just not convinced that spending money on it has any advantage for myself. 12:30:10 sykopomp, example? 12:30:26 yakov_: and i've had enough chances to use allegro to now prefer sbcl 12:30:30 (or ccl) 12:30:36 ccl is cool, yeah. 12:30:44 H4ns, it's personal choice after all. 12:30:52 yakov_: and sbcl runs circles around allegro, speed-wise. 12:30:56 *yakov_* feels ok with LW. 12:30:57 yakov_: of getting paid for using SBCL? There's a number of people here who do so. 12:31:20 sykopomp, products? except ITA. 12:31:24 H4ns: really? I never got around to speed testing them. How does CCL compare to allegro? 12:31:36 sykopomp: depends on the platform, generally slower. 12:31:39 well, i'm not arguing.. 12:31:44 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@nat-sh-168.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:46 yakov_: there's some contractors here that use SBCL, too. 12:31:47 yakov_: you started the advertisment. 12:32:00 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@nat-sh-168.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 12:32:24 H4ns, nope. I've given an advice 12:32:33 yakov_: even worse. 12:32:41 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:32:54 the fact that the advice is not "free" is purerly coincident 12:32:56 Tribalism! 12:33:10 +1. 12:33:21 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@nat-sh-168.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 12:33:54 H4ns, i'm happy with ccl too BTW. but generaly it's easier for me to do things with proper tools at hands 12:34:05 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-10-74.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:08 yakov_: you claimed that buying a commercial product would help the learning experience, which i'd say is bold at least. in particular, as this channel is mostly about "free" software 12:34:11 especially, things i want to bring $ back to me someday.. 12:34:26 H4ns, well, fair enough. it's was IMHO 12:34:30 and by saying "proper", you belittle the tools that are used by this channel's majority. 12:34:54 Meh. 12:35:03 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:35:17 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:35:21 H4ns, correct me please 12:35:22 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:36 but then again I *heard* that ccl on mac does have some tools and IDE.. 12:35:37 You have similar things going on in C-land, where IDE users go "how can you do anything without proper tools" to those who use text editors and command line invocations... 12:35:38 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:44 *yakov_* do not have mac ATM. 12:35:48 yakov_: do i get the source code with LispWorks? 12:36:10 Odin-, i'm emacs user BTW ;-) 12:36:12 stassats`: he does not. 12:36:22 Do Lispwork or Allegro allow generation of iPad applications? 12:36:23 H4ns, not for the complete LW. 12:36:24 ;-) 12:36:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:36:35 editor has source with it. :-P 12:36:45 SLIME isn't even command-line and just text editors 12:36:48 What's the point of being able to send :allow-other-keys to any function that uses keyword arguments? 12:37:04 Sgeo: so that you can call it with other keys. 12:37:08 having the source code of an implementation is pretty important to me 12:37:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 12:37:22 stassats`, why so? 12:37:25 pjb, but what would be the point of doing so? 12:37:46 Sgeo: (write 42 :allow-other-keys t :do-something-nice-for-me t) 12:37:56 sykopomp: And plenty of C IDEs are really straitjackets. It's all nonsense. 12:37:58 stassats`, your business works like this or out from the curiosity 12:38:26 the former 12:38:36 oh I see.. 12:38:38 Sgeo: the point would be anything you want. For example, you could have some code analysis tool that would put those additionnal key arguments to some good use. 12:38:46 toy argument. 12:39:04 when writing high performance code, it's crucial to know what decision the implementation is making 12:39:05 Sgeo: or, for your own functions, you could have compiler macros that would process them. 12:39:27 Hmm, do people tend to use &aux ? 12:39:29 anyway, it wasn't my intention to start such a flame.. i've just shared some of my experince in learing lisp with Sgeo 12:39:48 Sgeo: some people, and when it's useful (eg. when writing macros). 12:40:02 stassats`, i would go code generation for "high performance" but that just me 12:40:16 yakov_: so far, you did not share "experience" but rather justified your investment in public, without good reasons other than belittling everyone else. 12:40:18 say, to C or whatever your target it. 12:40:19 Sgeo: I cannot fathom how those questions and answers help you in anyways. The information content is close to nul. 12:40:36 H4ns, you are biased :-P 12:40:50 Sgeo: just read a book! 12:41:18 *Sgeo* is looking through parts of the HyperSpec 12:41:39 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:42:25 also bugs, i don't want to wait ages until a vendor benevolently decides to fix a bug which is important to me 12:42:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 12:42:36 Sgeo: a dumb question such as "do people use &aux" is better answered by typing: find ~/quicklisp -name \*.lisp -print0 | xargs -0 grep -niH -e '&aux' # at your bash! 12:44:40 1430 hits here.. 12:45:25 H4ns, and please stop making a problem out of me happy with commercial implementation :-) which is by definition order of magnitude better suited for real work; as against typing Lisp examples from the books and watching what have happened 12:45:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:45:56 IMHO! :-) 12:46:19 What's real work? 12:46:26 yes, you can sue the vendor if anything goes wrong 12:46:53 "i bought this iphone and it cost me a lot, therefore it is better than your android" 12:47:10 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:47:25 And you can always try to sue Apple if anything goes wrong. 12:47:32 my android wasn't cheap either! 12:47:40 H4ns, you are completely missing my point. i don't want to adjust your vision of the situation, sorry. 12:47:44 yakov_: sure. 12:47:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 12:49:35 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:46 H4ns: androids are expensive these days ;( The Galaxy Nexus is US$800 12:51:06 sykopomp: there are cheap ones, but they are... cheap 12:51:55 Sgeo: I use &aux here and there. Fairly often in lambda forms because it conserves vertical space. :) 12:52:03 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:11 pjb, like running business on Lisp software.. 12:52:23 obviously. 12:52:30 sykopomp: how much vertical space did you save so far? 12:52:32 sometimes if I need to do some light processing on the arguments to a regular function that i already wrote, i'll use &aux instead of wrapping the body in let. 12:52:40 stassats`: about fitty line 12:52:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 12:52:53 sykopomp: get a nice zte blade with cyanogenmod on it and you're done for eur 100 12:53:09 pjb, as i don't have the ability to hire H4ns in case of a hard bug with ccl, sbcl whatever.. so i leverage that buying LW :-P 12:53:11 Sgeo: but the most useful case for &aux is when used with defstruct's BOA constructors. 12:53:37 since you can't really do what &aux lets you do there without writing a separate constructor. 12:54:06 sykopomp: and why is vertical space important, again? 12:54:20 it's not. I just like how it looks sometimes when I use &aux. 12:54:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:55:27 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-238-237.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:02 (lambda (e &aux (*socket* socket)) ...) from what I'm currently working on. 12:57:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57:09 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 12:57:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 12:58:45 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.169] has joined #lisp 13:00:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:09 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:01:23 (defmacro zzz (&body body) `(zzz ,@body)) (zzz '(8 hours)) 13:02:02 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 13:02:17 It suddenly occurs to me that I wouldn't need that ' 13:02:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:03:39 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:04:52 That's baby fun, just like (defun f (x) (f x)). 13:05:07 Sgeo: how old are you? 13:05:36 so much fun it can blow your stack 13:07:05 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:07:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:10:00 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:12:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:13:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:16:44 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:33 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:18:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:19:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:21:40 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:23:16 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 wakeup [~wakeup@p57A57035.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:08 hiho 13:27:49 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:27:58 -!- mwyrobek [~mwyrobek@caq236.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:28:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:33:26 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:33:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:37:06 emacsuser [~user@194.249.198.46] has joined #lisp 13:38:09 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:38:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:38:37 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:39:07 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.39.16] has joined #lisp 13:39:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:40:55 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 13:42:15 argh, dtc broke hemlock 13:42:16 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:30 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:31 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:45:26 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 13:48:15 benny [~benny@i577A190E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:53 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:22 Xach: I tried to compile hemlock and phemlock on ccl and sbcl recently 13:49:33 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:50:23 What happened? 13:50:48 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 13:51:15 Douglas made dozens of changes as of yesterday. 13:52:13 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:32 It wasn't too successful. I reached the point where I could launch it in X, but it didn't work too good. On the other hand, the cocoa hemlock of ccl works nicely. Too bad it works only on MacOSX :-( 13:53:16 Right now it does not even build due to Scieneer/CMUCL-specific package references. 13:53:17 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:29 hemlock.base has a package that has a naked (:use :extensions) 13:53:49 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.169] has joined #lisp 13:53:50 Also, I tried it with sbcl-1.0.45-gentoo-0 I need to try it with the latest sbcl. 13:54:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 13:56:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:39 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:37 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:00:57 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:01:09 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 14:01:18 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 14:04:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:16 argh, some recent change in sbcl broke cl-kanren-trs 14:06:53 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:11:49 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:41 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:14:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:14:39 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:18 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:17:12 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:10 mgraham [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:19:20 kai_ [~kai@f052098202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:29 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319028.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:21:41 ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:41 -!- aetoxx [~NewUser@gateway/tor-sasl/aetoxx] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:23:49 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:24:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:25:19 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:27:29 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:54 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:29:43 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:31:48 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 14:33:42 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 14:34:19 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:34:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:35:05 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:49 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:38:33 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:40:17 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 14:43:17 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:48:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.39.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:49:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:50:06 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:50:25 cbp` [~user@187.193.185.86] has joined #lisp 14:50:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:53:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:37 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 14:55:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 14:56:46 pkhuong: it might be yours! 14:58:39 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:59:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:20 *Xach* emails sbcl-devel 15:00:27 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:00:28 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:28 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:04:58 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:05:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:05:34 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has joined #lisp 15:05:46 ikki [~ikki@189.195.65.30] has joined #lisp 15:05:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-75.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:10 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 15:06:11 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:07:13 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:48 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:08:42 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:10:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:10:28 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:10:43 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:11:32 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-249-18.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 15:13:35 X-Scale` [email@89.180.157.137] has joined #lisp 15:14:17 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:57 re 15:15:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:15:56 n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@178.47.208.2] has joined #lisp 15:17:52 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:18:20 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:19:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:35 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:24 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 15:22:16 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:25 dialog boxes ! http://i.imgur.com/6neUx.png 15:24:26 dto: cool in a way, though I would have preferred the OS X method of having them attached to a parent window 15:25:03 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:25:23 *Xach* made his QPX joke too early 15:26:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.65.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:26:15 I got it 15:26:49 phew 15:29:20 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 15:31:34 dlowe: watch this 15:31:42 Xach: what is qpx 15:31:52 dto: ita app 15:32:11 ikki [~ikki@189.195.65.30] has joined #lisp 15:32:35 dto: It's the air fare search engine at ITA written in CL 15:33:04 among other things, it powers http://www.google.com/flights/ 15:33:27 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:33:31 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-230-159.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:41 dto: the joke was that i was going to name something quicklisp-related "QPX" 15:33:55 since ITA has caused me so much pain, it would only be fair 15:34:02 no managerial attempts to rewrite it in python^Wgo^Wc++ yet? 15:34:15 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-dqoshagxtnrvkscz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:20 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:31 http://i.imgur.com/0CPHl.png 15:34:36 ah cool :) 15:34:47 what pain, QL integration issues? 15:35:17 *sykopomp* complains that Puerto Rico is a location within the US! :( 15:35:25 dto: No, that is just part of the joke. 15:35:28 did it recommend bad flights? 15:35:38 ha. 15:35:42 it won't give results for 'locations outside the US' 15:35:44 mornin sykopomp. 15:35:51 cmm: I think google is clever enough to not do that 15:35:51 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-238-237.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:36:23 soon they'll become infected and rewrite their search engine in lisp 15:36:39 if Norvig couldn't get them to do it... 15:37:01 he's not smung enough 15:37:01 as long as the matrix interface is still there, I'm happy 15:37:03 smug 15:37:04 dlowe: in that 2nd pic i just linked, you can see that i can have an easily configured global setting for whether dialogs come up like in the first shot, or whether they're embedded like the 2nd . it can do either. 15:37:12 dto: neat 15:37:14 stassats: they'll accidentally use pjb-ware and have to release it all as GPL 15:37:18 Doesn't Norvig just write Python now? 15:37:58 dlowe: to make the screenshot, i made a clone of the system menu by typing in (new 'system-menu) and then pulled it out to the right :) 15:38:10 Python is for non programmers. CS guys still learn scheme at MIT. 15:38:31 oh hmm. the buttons don't have rounded corners when embedded there, but then they do when you pull it out. i think i can fix that. 15:38:34 not in 6.001... 15:38:57 Indeed, in 6.S184. http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.S184/ 15:39:11 6.01 is for non-programmers, that's where they use Python. 15:39:18 6.001 is dead. 15:39:55 odd, i'd say they'd teach scheme to non-programmers. the syntax is simpler 15:40:22 They had some "practical" reasons behind that, supposedly. 15:40:31 (Practical meaning Google?) 15:40:50 Yes. The practical reason is that if you don't have to teach syntax, what else do you have to teach? 15:40:59 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1803815 15:40:59 |3b|: Just saw your third annotation from last night. Thanks! 15:41:04 Hey!, You missed a space there! 15:41:29 antgreen [~user@70.50.66.178] has joined #lisp 15:41:36 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:41:36 pjb: they teach the import statement, basically. 15:41:47 maybe from ... import .., as well, if you want extra credit. 15:42:02 The practical reason is that there are robotics systems which have python interfaces 15:42:10 and no one wanted to write scheme interfaces for them 15:42:14 So now, we need a CL implementaiton able to produce Python modules. 15:42:37 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-emdmakwqqfdkftoc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42:38 there was a python implementation in CL at one point. I thought that was a pretty neat idea 15:42:42 Oh! And it was so hard to write scheme interfaces to robots?! No MIT professor or assistant could do that? 15:42:52 pjb: that would be sweet. i write python for food. would rather be writing CL if I could help it. 15:43:08 you can help it 15:43:20 pjb: apparently not. 15:43:27 Python is adequate for teaching. 15:43:35 brown [user@nat/google/x-wxvjojbmepzrkvsf] has joined #lisp 15:43:43 in* 15:43:51 Although, personally, I'd rather they chose javascript. 15:44:01 -!- brown is now known as Guest11122 15:44:04 javascript? :( 15:44:46 It has a simpler model and a better set of primitives. 15:45:34 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120215222917]] 15:45:44 dunno. seems like you need a fair bit of boiler plate to get partial, curry, etc 15:45:46 dto: blocky project dialogs look cool. Does blocky do any type of completion à la Emacs' completion- 15:45:49 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:45:58 and hard to avoid explaining the DOM when talking about js 15:46:10 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:46:21 j_king: it's as easy to avoid it as it is to avoid it when talking about CL. 15:46:31 volunteered to teach kids programming last weekend @ mozilla. used python. seemed to work... though I'd be more curious to try racket or some subset of CL 15:46:59 j_king: Currying is straight-forward with bind. 15:47:28 j_king: The DOM is irrelevant. 15:47:36 mon_key: not yet. 15:47:54 -!- blandest [~user@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:06 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:13 -!- Guest11122 is now known as reb 15:49:26 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:41 j_king: squeak is meant for just that. 15:49:50 dto: Obv. hard to do well. Also, I remember reading that one of the pre-CL lisp UIs had what many considered to be too much DWIM. Interlisp maybe? 15:50:24 dlowe: scratch was there. quite a hit with some of the kids. 15:51:33 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 15:52:36 mon_key: i'd like to have a transparent pop up that shows completion options in different contexts 15:54:01 Zhivago: irrelevant if you run your js outside of a browser? or just irrelevant in that you don't have to know what the dom is to do interesting things with js? 15:54:28 I'm working on a side project right now in js and if there wasn't a dom I wouldn't get anything done. 15:54:50 so honest q 15:56:03 j_king: there is no need to tell anyone about the dom when telling them something about javascript. thus, the dom is not relevant in the discussion. 15:56:31 My github search for method combinations shows that they're not _quite_ as rare as I thought. 15:56:32 saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:57:08 sellout: did you find any particularly convincing examples of why they should be used? 15:57:38 it's not surprising that a feature that exists, is vaguely neat, and is not obviously broken gets used 15:58:13 a clean experiment would be to take it out and then see if anyone is inconvenienced too much :) 15:58:53 H4ns: UCW component rendering :) 15:59:35 *Xach* recently thought about doing error signaling with subclasses adding initargs via an append method combination 15:59:36 H4ns: Well, right now I'm just collecting instances, then I'll look into them and write up a blag or something. APPEND and PROGN seem to have some reasonable cases. Haven't found any examples of +, OR, LIST, MAX, or MIN. And some good instances of non-built-in combinations (ContextL, of course, plus Filtered Functions, the dbc stuff (although I may be biased about that one), etc.). 15:59:56 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:59:56 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:15 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@nat-sh-168.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:21 H4ns: in other words, for generating HTML. 16:00:26 sellout: i'm looking forward to the writeup! 16:00:28 No instances of NCONC, either, but I consider that an optimization of APPEND (but I don't think it should actually exist) 16:01:42 sellout: yeah, arnesi has non-builtin combinations such as WRAP-AROUND, and WRAPPING 16:01:54 I think APPEND and NCONC should be part of the same combination type, with the NCONC qualifier indicating that your method returns a fresh list, effectively. 16:02:15 felideon: Yep, I found those. 16:02:19 http://blog.printf.net/articles/2012/02/23/computers-are-very-good-at-the-game-of-go 16:02:51 rvrebane [~rvrebane@77-233-69-57.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #lisp 16:03:39 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 16:04:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:06:44 nepnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 16:07:19 sellout: wrt method-combination In case the googling doesn't get you there, don't forget pp 105-115 of Keene 16:08:53 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:59 dto: what are u using for opening windows and font rendering ? 16:09:13 sloanr [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 16:09:19 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-sxxrmqxjlyedusjy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:42 dto: also do you plan to release a 'widget' toolkit? 16:09:51 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319028.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:31 mon_key: That doesn't really have much about use-cases  it mentions one possibility for PROGN and that's it (I think). 16:13:40 And wow, I haven't opened that book in years. 16:17:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:17:38 sellout: what does the term method combination contain in your context? :before :around :after, or #'combine, or #'apply and the likes? 16:18:32 madnificent: The former. http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/07_ff.htm 16:18:32 #'combine? 16:18:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.65.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:46 madnificent: Were you thinking #'compose? 16:18:54 (EG, in Alexandria) 16:19:02 :before and :after are method qualifiers of the standard method combination 16:19:45 sellout: yes. Xach: #'compose 16:19:57 madnificent: And yeah, I'm not interested in the standard :before/:after/:around stuff, because those are very commonly used. I could get examples just by randomly sampling Lisp code ;) 16:19:57 why would you assume that they aren't commonly used? 16:20:15 -!- mgraham [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 16:21:06 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:10 madnificent: Well, one reason is that at the Hamburg ELS, a speaker asked how many people had used a non-standard method combination, and about three people raised their hands. I was one, and I think Pascal Constanza was in the room, too ;) 16:21:50 sellout: ah, now i get it. non-standard method combinations. i missed that in the conversation. pcos would be one of those, i'd guess yeah. 16:22:04 asdf previously employed a method combination 16:22:06 sellout: he likely has to do that for contextl too 16:22:28 -!- sloanr [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:30 stassats: Yeah, I saw that one, too. 16:22:33 Glad you didn't bother to catch up on context. 16:23:08 sellout, do you know about Costanza's (not Constanza!) use of method combinations to implement Beta-style dispatch? 16:23:47 adeht: Yes, sorry for the misspelling  what is Beta-style dispatch? Is that his filtered functions? 16:23:56 no 16:24:27 Xach: if that was to me, i tried but kept losing track in the backlog. sorry 16:24:48 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:25:03 adeht: Oh, I see  where is his code or a paper on that? 16:25:25 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:25:28 sellout, http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/c0ee6af63b0410ee/60353ea473b7493e 16:26:07 adeht: I've thought about implementing http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/publications/oopsla04-gff.pdf, but I don't have any actual use for it. 16:26:13 http://www.p-cos.net/research.html contains a list of Costanza's papers 16:26:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 16:26:26 adeht: Ah, cool  even mentions the same paper. 16:27:35 emacsuser: lispbuilder-sdl and cl-opengl 16:27:56 emacsuser: the project is the widget toolkit, it's one unitary thing 16:29:29 -!- saschakb__ [~saschakb@p4FEA0930.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:35 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-253-87.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:31:16 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 16:31:47 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:31:55 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-230-159.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:34:10 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:35:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:36:29 I gotta go, but please think up more method combinations for me :) 16:36:36 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 16:37:05 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:37:07 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:10 well I think there was some example by Xof, but I'm not certain 16:38:39 what's the best way to join characters in order to form a string? I could coerce to string and concatenate but seems overkill 16:39:23 where are those characters originally? 16:39:39 maybe this one (coerce '(#\h #\e #\y) 'string)? 16:40:08 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:09 saste: the real question is.. why were they separated? 16:40:10 jsnell: from a list or whatever 16:40:53 well, it can't be a whatever since it directly affects the answer :-) for a list I'd probably do coerce like that 16:41:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:41:14 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:33 dlowe: the characters are values stored in a hash 16:42:38 COERCE is good, so is WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING 16:44:02 dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:13 ok thanks all guys 16:46:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 16:47:01 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081D4FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:51:38 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:50 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 16:52:15 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 16:53:54 is there a known issue with CCL where finish-output on a stream does not work from another thread? 16:54:09 it seems it ignores it, unless it was issued from the same thread that opened the steram 16:54:38 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:56:44 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 16:57:57 What CCL implementation do you use? SBCL? 16:58:46 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:59:56 dacoda: CCL is an implementation of Common Lisp. 17:00:35 ok, it seem when I try to inspect the stream, I get Stream # is private to # 17:00:36 Ah, didn't know, because I'm just using SBCL all the time. 17:00:47 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7A4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:52 so CCL definitely has some weirdness with streams being per thread going on.. 17:01:17 But in SBCL bindings (e.g. using LET) are local to each thread. 17:01:21 How does slime auto-flush thread works then? Mine is very similar, I'm sure (finish-output) is called on the right stream, yet has no effect 17:01:52 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:01:57 It might be that's similar in other implementations, and the stream in created in a let. 17:02:29 no stream is created with (open) and is stored in a clos object 17:02:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:03:53 is there ccl channel? 17:04:15 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081D4FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:04:27 maxm--: yes 17:04:28 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:34 it has an obscure name, #ccl 17:04:37 rme also knows a lot about ccl 17:05:26 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:58 maxm--: _or_ you could have a look into the manual: http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter10.1.html#Additional-Open-Keywords 17:07:36 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-117-24.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:41 dacoda: the stream does not know whether it was "created in a let" or "by some other means". objects exist independently of the variables that may or may not be bound to them. 17:07:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:08:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:09:54 H4ns: Yes, but the thread might not be able to see it if is has been created in another thread's let. 17:10:30 Is SBCL sufficiently smart wrt nth-value 0 of standard functions known to return values 17:11:04 For instance, in SBCL global special values are visible across all threads. 17:11:08 mon_key: disassemble and see 17:11:28 Xach: OK. 17:11:34 ah 17:13:12 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:13:14 -!- X-Scale` [email@89.180.157.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:25 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:13:26 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:44 so hold on, what do i need for this to work 17:13:45 :lock? 17:13:51 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0930.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:56 nth-value 0 == values 17:14:06 because reading it seems default is :external and it seems it supposed to work 17:14:20 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 17:15:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:47 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:42 maxm--: from my reading, it seems that :private is the default, but i may have some trouble reading. 17:17:09 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 17:17:17 humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:38 |3b|: you solved it? (: 17:17:43 Doh, /me has bad reading comprehension today, somehow my eyes only fixated on "NIL means :external" part 17:17:47 |3b|: congratulations! (: 17:17:55 and default keywords being nil, thats what i thought 17:18:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:18:49 Thanks: :sharing :external did it 17:18:54 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:18:54 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:19:05 its pretty amazing, only 1 failed test out of 400 when trying my logging stuff on ccl 17:19:07 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-238-175.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:34 wow, clx's translate-text 17:19:55 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-253-87.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:00 stassats`: OK. 17:20:01 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:20:36 maxm--: you should probably use :sharing :lock. :sharing :external means that you're carefully doing your own stream locking somehow. 17:21:37 rme: I have my out locking per appender 17:22:01 so only 1 thread can write to it at a time, and flusher thread uses that lock also 17:22:14 Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:22:56 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:23:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:23:34 maxm--: Oh, OK then. 17:25:55 hrm 17:26:09 parse-float :( 17:26:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has left #lisp 17:27:35 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:58 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 17:28:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:28:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:29:21 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:32 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:30:58 urandom__ [~user@p548A318E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:32 parenscript in elisp 17:33:02 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:36:17 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:28 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:38:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:38:56 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:40 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:39:47 -!- humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:09 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:41:29 sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:56 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:44:08 antifuchs: is your cxml-rpc faster than s-xml-rpc? 17:44:28 well, i should probably try myself 17:45:25 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:45:36 stassats`: I think it might be! 17:46:00 stassats`: I have email from a person saying it was plenty fast for them, but you should definitely try it out though. 17:46:12 can it reuse the stream or something? 17:46:18 (hundreds of reqs/s or so they say) 17:46:28 not sure! it just uses drakma (: 17:46:39 surely there are more low-hanging perf fruit (: 17:46:41 drakma can 17:46:46 well then! ((: 17:47:02 dto: thanks. how exactly do you render fonts? lispbuilder-ttf rendering single characters to textures or ? 17:47:15 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:28 no i render whole strings to textures. 17:47:40 ok 17:48:02 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:48:03 if i rendered single characters i wouldn't get the benefit of kerning 17:48:49 sellout1 [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:00 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:49:08 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:55 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 17:50:00 kinda inefficient, I've used C library something like this ? http://code.google.com/p/freetype-gl/ 17:50:17 also found this https://github.com/Ramarren/opengl-text but didnt test it yet 17:50:49 antifuchs: about the same, so far 17:51:09 I found a use of the + method combination! https://github.com/dballard/fink/blob/3d1eb041fc97c0e7250b0d1946681a512cff2328/board.lisp#L260 (haven't seen how it's used yet, though) 17:51:18 stassats`: oh ok (: 17:51:20 dto: what about problems once you try to display a whole page of text this way? 17:51:21 emacsuser: i cache the textures. 17:51:31 it works fine. 17:51:32 stassats`: feel free to optimize, of course! (: 17:51:35 but i'd really like more to hack on a cxml-based thing 17:51:36 dto: but textures are "per string" 17:52:11 damn those pesky cxml-rods 17:52:22 profiling blames them 17:52:23 dto: is your code available somewhere? I'd like to examine a bit :) 17:52:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:57 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:53:49 the string needs to be drawn every frame, which can be 60fps for example, so in any case it makes sense to cache the texture, because they'll always be drawn many more times than they need to be rendered 17:53:55 emacsuser: sure. 17:54:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 17:54:06 -!- kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:54:37 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:00 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:55:17 emacsuser: https://github.com/dto/blocky/blob/master/console.lisp 17:55:19 dto: makes sense.. and I'm probably too woried about video mem usage - textures need to be 8 bit only 17:55:29 Guest28340 [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:36 dto: thanks 17:56:27 -!- Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: Not that there is anything wrong with that] 17:56:39 awesome project btw 17:56:43 hey thanks :) 17:58:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:59:05 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:02:25 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: maintenance] 18:03:33 the compiler part of SBCL runtime is mindblowing with regards to possibilities ... self modifying programs with native speed. I've been thinking about it in regards to sound processing - allowing users to write their own sound processors or modify existing with some ad hoc GUI creation utility... much less ambitious than blocky, which seems to be pretty general purpose environment 18:03:50 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:52 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:04:00 antifuchs: read some documentation and rewrote my query to use just one request 18:04:14 went from 800ms, to 10ms, no hacking required 18:04:16 (so far) 18:04:26 stassats`: watcha working on? 18:04:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:04:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:04:44 mon_key: talking with rtorrent 18:06:28 stassats`: Ah. and wiki says "rTorrent can be controlled via XML-RPC over SCGI." 18:06:46 -!- Guest28340 [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:06:50 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5C8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 18:07:01 yes? 18:07:52 mgraham [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:45 *stassats`* can display a list of torrents in a window with commonqt, enough for today 18:08:54 gif! 18:09:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:40 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:09:46 so that you can laugh on what kind of movies i pirate? 18:10:48 no 18:10:54 change your search to university lectures first 18:11:09 or linux isos 18:11:40 kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #lisp 18:11:44 stassats`: nm just assumed you were using rtorrent with an scgi/xml-rpc to some lispy server somwhere 18:11:52 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@77-233-69-57.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:01 and now i need to find a name for higher level bits on top of qt, because i can't no longer keep it contained in a single project 18:12:31 mon_key: i'm using a CL xml-rpc client 18:12:44 staqt 18:13:04 *stassats`* named it "qt-ui" for now, in my usual naming fashion 18:13:05 nice name 18:13:17 Xach's that is 18:13:18 stassats`: put the ui in the middle! 18:13:52 (quit:) 18:14:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:14:03 (quit:quit) 18:14:22 (i hate naming projects) 18:14:22 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:14:43 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:15:15 project1, project2, sound like nice alternatives 18:15:16 Qt Project Extensions, or QPX 18:15:24 ok, i have done that one too frequently today 18:16:07 *Xach* retires 18:16:09 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 18:16:14 emacsuser: the blocky gui stuff originally started as this cl program: http://dto.github.com/notebook/clframe.html 18:16:21 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:35 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:16:52 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052098202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:14 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:38 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:18:39 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 18:18:42 very nice 18:19:08 pure data gui 18:19:21 yep, id love to have audio code in the future 18:19:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:20:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:20:38 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:21:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23:12 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:30 -!- trebor_dki 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Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:09 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.181.27] has joined #lisp 19:04:22 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:06 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:06:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:06:48 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-94.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:08:00 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:08:16 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:08:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:20 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:09:39 Any help for hu.dwim.reiterate and defpackage? http://paste.lisp.org/display/127943 19:11:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:11:55 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:29 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:13:53 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:27 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:15:29 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:17:05 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-397253.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:17:13 flip215: I don't think you're using it right. 19:17:30 pkhuong: If I do (:use :iterate) in the defpackage, it works 19:17:41 but of course it might be my fault ... 19:17:55 flip215: that's because you're using iterate syntax. Obviously that will work with iterate. 19:18:11 (for x :in-list '(1 2 3)) 19:18:18 AFAIK reiterate is compatible with iterate, only has some bugs fixed? 19:18:51 hmmm yes, your version works 19:19:10 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:11 flip215: I don't know that reiterate is meant to be 1:1 compatible with iterate. 19:19:36 http://dwim.hu/darcs/hu.dwim.reiterate/documentation/main.lisp has (for x in ...); the documentation is mostly empty 19:20:18 well, thank you very much 19:20:50 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:21:25 flip215: I don't see that string anywhere. 19:21:33 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:21:34 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 19:21:38 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:21:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:21:55 pkhuong: it's (for e in '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)) to be exact 19:21:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:22:01 flip215: the only place I see that syntax is when it quotes your feature request. 19:22:03 but that's just a wish 19:22:08 yes, right. 19:22:25 Well, I was sure that reiterate is compatible ... 19:23:14 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-117-24.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:23:22 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:25:09 I sure hope the hungarians are getting their money's worth after all that greenspunning. 19:25:31 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:26:02 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:26:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:27:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:27:52 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 19:28:31 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.72.12] has joined #lisp 19:29:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:29 Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:32:13 sykopomp: they are, but the valuation is skewed by negative inflation. 19:32:14 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:15 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:32:28 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:34:47 osa1_ [~sinan@31.140.11.210] has joined #lisp 19:35:03 sacho [~sacho@90.154.203.198] has joined #lisp 19:35:06 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:46 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.72.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:49 francogrex [~user@109.130.9.97] has joined #lisp 19:36:19 with format to convert a binary number 00010111 to decimal? 19:36:44 -!- literal_ is now known as literal 19:36:55 francogrex: #b00010111 ? 19:37:14 (format nil "~b") IIRC 19:37:15 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:37:21 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:18 watarum [~watarum@220-208-93-123.koalanet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:39:05 -!- watarum [~watarum@220-208-93-123.koalanet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:33 Xach: If I had not bothered, what is about embeddable-maxima in quicklisp. I will merge all mainstream changes. I also test it on linux, windows (akovalenko) sbcl (all tests passed (except two on windows)) 19:40:07 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.169] has joined #lisp 19:40:24 kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:27 Is there a function to get the byte position in a (character) stream? 19:40:30 flip215: that does the reverse 19:40:32 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:40:49 francogrex: well, format is binary => string 19:41:05 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:17 vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:41:19 if you want to parse, you could try (read (format nil "#b~s" binary-as-string)) 19:41:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:42:29 flip215: (parse-integer "01010101" :radix 2) 19:42:49 ah, yes, thanks. forgot about that. 19:43:01 just wanted to write about *input-radix* 19:43:08 ok 19:44:16 -!- otakutom_ [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:33 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:46:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:47:05 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:55 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.185.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:50:21 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:04 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:51:06 -!- kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 19:55:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:56:41 Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:01:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:01:46 Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:07:38 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Quit: decaf] 20:10:21 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:53 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:11:26 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:13:45 yay for stassats and xml-rpc (: 20:13:48 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has joined #lisp 20:14:03 oddly enough, his use case is /exactly/ what I wrote cxml-rpc for 20:14:07 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:14:18 (and then promptly lost all passion for once cxml-rpc was done) 20:18:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:18:08 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:32 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052098202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 20:27:33 kai_ [~kai@f052098228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:29:10 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081D4FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:09 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:30:10 sacho_ [~sacho@90.154.203.198] has joined #lisp 20:31:04 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:50 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #lisp 20:31:51 rickard [~rickard@c-aaa1e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:32:04 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:33:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.203.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:01 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:37:18 ehu [~ehuels@mk089144206086.a1.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:40 -!- rickard [~rickard@c-aaa1e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: rickard] 20:39:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:48 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:41:23 rickardg [~user@c-aaa1e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:41:57 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:42:31 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:52 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has joined #lisp 20:43:04 is there a way to test if something is a type... I was using subtypep - this emits style-warnings in sbcl which implied that it was perhaps not what i was looking for? 20:43:28 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:43:35 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:35 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:43:35 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:44:43 -!- pldn [~dvorak@77.226.151.243] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:49 bobbysmith007: subtypep is a query about types, not objects 20:45:02 bobbysmith007: perhaps you're looking for typep? 20:45:21 (err... emits a style warning if the type1 is not a type eg: undefined type: NEW-WORDPRESS-VERSION) 20:46:05 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:29 how can I use that to determine if something is a valid typespecifier? It seems to take an object and a type. What type are type-specifiers? 20:46:45 bobbysmith007: you cannot, conformingly. 20:46:56 some implementaiton take any symbol as type specifier. 20:47:05 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:47:22 ok, thanks, just an odd corner case I had not noticed till that style warning was added... 20:47:32 you can determine if a symbol is a class name however. clhs find-class 20:47:49 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:00 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:14 pjb: indeed, that is what I ended up using, it just prompted me to wonder if there was some other find-type function I had been missing 20:48:53 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:50:12 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF5C8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 20:51:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:52:06 fmeyer 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[~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:33 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:15:11 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 21:16:15 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:53 izz_ [joel@montezuma.acc.umu.se] has joined #lisp 21:17:05 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:17:42 ISF [~ivan@187.106.53.231] has joined #lisp 21:17:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:23:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:23:16 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:25:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:26:29 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-049-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:16 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:40 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:37 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:29:10 I don't know how I feel about declare ignore vs. _ 21:29:14 I think I like _ better 21:29:37 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:29:41 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Quit: icylisper] 21:31:06 Sgeo: you're trying way too hard to get a perfect match of Haskel in lisp. under the assumption you're talking about method implementations, you could easily write a macro which takes _ instead of a name and declare ignore. 21:31:32 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:32 s/kel/kell/ 21:32:52 Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:32:58 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-63.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:40 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:33:52 docAvid [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:24 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:35:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.114.75] has joined #lisp 21:36:28 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:05 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:20 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:38:41 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:40:44 Hmm. I have a tendency to use printf-style debugging a lot because I don't like learning debuggers unless they're GUIy. So I think I like this break function, lets me put breakpoints right in code. 21:41:17 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:24 Sgeo: http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2012/02/traces-of-awesomeness.html may be of interest to you 21:42:41 *sykopomp* wonders if anyone has used cl-match and/or something else for pattern matching that they'd recommend. 21:43:40 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:44:01 I'd recommend com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.pmatch:match ;-) 21:44:03 sykopomp: no, but i'm interested about the experiences you have with it once you've tried it 21:44:31 I've been using pattern matching a lot with erlang, and I realize that some parts of my code could really benefit from it. 21:44:46 that, i can imagine. 21:45:16 (as an aside, I also find it pretty cool that erlang can destructure binary data into smaller components through its matching) 21:45:37 *p_l* ponders which will be easier to do in both ruby and CL... Protocol Buffers or ASN.1 21:46:42 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:46:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:02 p_l: isn't there a cl PB project already? 21:47:26 mon_key: there is one 21:47:48 I'm trying to figure a nice way to serialize data between both, that would include a schema 21:48:05 H4ns, eep, the exact debugging facilities are implementation-dependent? 21:48:12 Crud, more death by analysis time? 21:48:14 madnificent: are you implying mean things about my code, madnificent? >:( 21:48:22 A benefit of using ASN.1 is you could avoid worrying about whether you shoulda used Thrift (; 21:48:38 sykopomp: LoL, not at all! I've been thinking similar things about what i've written :) 21:48:46 :) 21:48:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:49:13 *sykopomp* realizes that he uses if-let/when-let a lot, followed by destructuring of the data, and could probably just use PM for that. 21:49:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49:24 Sgeo: more like: the debugging facilities have been standardized to some extent, but implementations are free to extend them if they htink it'd be better. 21:49:30 mon_key: hmm? 21:49:30 Sgeo: no. the blog post is joking. there are no implementation-dependent debugging facilities. all you get is what the clhs says. 21:50:02 H4ns: i didn't get that 21:50:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:50:31 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:50:42 madnificent: i did not mean to be serious. the post is very very explicit about the fact that implementations have different capabilities. 21:50:57 For debugging, is CCL or SBCL better? 21:50:58 >.> 21:50:59 p_l: I remember the following url autocompleted pretty quickly when I was reading about Protocol Buffers: http://www.google.com/search?q=thrift%20vs.%20protocol%20buffers&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t 21:51:09 madnificent: but sgeo seems to somehow not have believed that or object to that or something like that. 21:51:17 Because I was told to prefer SBCL but now that there are differences I may have to take into consideration... 21:51:38 Sgeo: write portable code, switch implementations when you like to. 21:51:53 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:22 The only thing sbcl has, is that it generates fast code. So it's nice when you want to do penis^W speed contests with C compilers. 21:52:29 Sgeo: I wouldn't say either one is necessaarily better. I tend to prefer CCL during actual development, though, because it's more convenient about some things (shorter compile times, helpful rearranging of symbols when you change defpackage forms, sometimes more useful backtraces) 21:52:30 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 21:52:47 pjb: it is also nice when you want to reduce your wait times. 21:53:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:53:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:14 mon_key: thrift doesn't seem to be bringing much to the table 21:53:23 p_l: my thoughts 21:53:42 H4ns: not when you want to reduce your developer wait times ;) 21:53:51 H4ns: looks like i'm being overly naive today! it was a very good post though 21:53:54 especially since I'm not using any existing IPC system but building my own 21:53:57 pjb: how does your pmatch compare to cl-match? 21:54:05 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:54:30 sykopomp: that really depends. i need to process huge files, and reducing the processing time is very much welcome as i then have to wait less 21:54:50 p_l: If you experiment with github.com/brown/protobuf please send me comments. 21:55:08 H4ns: that's true :) 21:55:31 ccl performance bug reports are welcome. 21:55:33 H4ns: parsing XML is a good example of where SBCL is prob. a better fit 21:55:47 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@31.140.11.210] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:55:59 H4ns: sure, I don't mind using sbcl. Only once my program is completely debugged and ready to be delivered. 21:56:21 -!- mgraham [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:26 sykopomp: I didn't compare them. 21:56:33 sykopomp: compare and tell me. 21:56:35 reb: is that yours? 21:56:35 rme: sure. but for me, it is more like i run my program on all implementations that i have and then use the one that is fastest. 21:56:45 rme: (in many cases) 21:56:58 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:02 pjb: well, I can't really use yours, unfortunately. :\ 21:57:06 madnificent: thanks :) 21:57:31 reb: did you intentionally mark that project as C++ on github when you published it? 21:58:31 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:56 sykopomp: would that be because you don't want to give your users the freedom to peruse your source code as they will? 21:59:10 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:59:24 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:59:34 pjb: no, it's because I'm writing a lower-level library and I don't want to force licensing decisions on a user community that doesn't seem to welcome them. 21:59:36 s/freedom/licence lockin/ 22:00:37 not to bring up the licensing topic again, but it's kind of the elephant in the room every time pjbware comes up. :\ 22:00:51 sykopomp: at least iirc pjbware didn't use affero gpl... 22:00:56 sykopomp: a programmer community. Not a user community. 22:01:12 p_l: I'll soon switch to AGPL3. 22:01:14 pjb: for libraries, the programmers are the users. 22:01:15 pjb: the user of libraries is the programmer 22:01:21 pjb: ... you're trolling me, right? 22:01:24 p_l: the code I'm currently working is in AGPL. 22:01:31 p_l: no, very serriously,. 22:01:33 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-049-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:01:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:44 p_l: we all doubt about that trolling, i guess 22:01:51 p_l: so if you prefer GPL2, hurry using the current version! :-) 22:01:56  22:02:00 pjb: fwiw, if it were for the -application- I've been working on, I'd be fine using your libraries, since I also have it licensed as AGPL :) 22:02:06 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:13 *p_l* puts a notice for himself, "don't depend on pjbware" 22:02:22 GPLv3 is the reason why i'd start using 3 clause BSD 22:02:26 (i don't) 22:02:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:02:43 H4ns: I can't argue with that. And it's annoying to spend time on bug reports. But it's nice for an implementer to know about cases where performance is bad. Those cases might get improved. (Or they might not.) 22:03:26 non-lispers don't know what they're missing with their silly single-implementation languages :( 22:03:38 sykopomp: truly, they don't 22:03:39 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:03:43 they can poo-poo all they want. 22:04:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:04:24 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:04:26 sykopomp: though ruby apparently got enough crazies to branch out into several implementations 22:04:32 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:05:08 p_l: eh. Python has multiple implementations too. So does Haskell. It's just not the same without the sexy standard. 22:06:43 sykopomp: yes, but Python's alternatives are practically dead (unless we count the need to maintain a split Python 2.x/3.x install), at least for now, while Ruby got 3 that are in big use, one that is a rather specific modification of mainline, and at least one more that is big enough to be involved in commercial deployments 22:07:16 p_l: I wouldn't really call Pypy dead. Seems to be generating some buzz. 22:07:41 sykopomp: yes, but it seems to be on lower level of completion/use than Rubinius 22:07:46 (which was the last one I mentioned) 22:07:53 and I know someone working professionally with Jython (the poor soul) 22:08:08 and Jython kinda stopped developement, didn't it? 22:09:07 it sounds like that may be the case. Something about not even supporting 2.6. 22:09:16 yeah 22:09:17 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:09:25 I think it tapered out around 2.2/2.3 22:09:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@mk089144206086.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:53 meanwhile JRuby forced standardization of FFI interface and caused more and more gems to use it 22:11:40 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081D4FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:13:18 anyway 22:13:24 we don't need to deal with that nonsense 22:14:01 I have like 5 implementations installed, CFFI, trivial-*, usocket/iolib, and SLIME. 22:14:04 :) 22:14:11 oh, and bordeaux-threads. 22:14:33 bodreaux-threads makes me wonder: does anyone know how madeira's coming? 22:15:28 -!- kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:34 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:09 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7A4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:21:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:25 *sykopomp* hasn't heard a peep about madeira. 22:22:32 oiir [~user@h-73-200.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:22:58 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-67-180-197-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:24:52 ah, not started yet (source: http://random-state.net/log/3523852985.html ) 22:25:40 p_l: Yes, that project is mine. 22:25:49 madnificent: that's from last september. 22:26:10 i think that's the page which is continuously updated with what his latest efforts have been 22:26:25 mon_key: No. The project contains more C++ code than Lisp code, so Github marks it as being a C++ project. 22:26:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.181.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:06 reb: expect testing on ACL, then 22:27:40 Great. It worked at some point on a trial Allegro, but I haven't tried it lately. 22:28:33 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has joined #lisp 22:28:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:37 I've got evaluatio of 8.2 enterprise for my coursework, and protocol buffers are the most probable serialization format right now 22:28:54 You may also be interested in swank-client, which allows you to evaluate Lisp expressions on remote computers ... sort of like RPC. 22:29:09 now, if I only didn't have to consider writing a DSL to generate both CL code and Ruby from single source 22:29:21 reb: wouldn't fit my usage 22:30:01 we have a CL database plus main bussiness logic (for now, at least), Ruby frontend and JS client 22:30:03 Generating well indented Ruby code using Lisp's pretty printer would be a nice demo. 22:30:30 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:31:51 yeah, but it's :effort: that would be detrimental to rest of the project 22:31:58 (probably) 22:32:54 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052098228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:13 though I think the ruby side will be harder to implement due to lack of special variables and proper :around methods 22:34:05 you can fairly easily simulate method combination, there may even be a library for it 22:34:28 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:17 oGMo: yes, but I don't remember enough of Ruby to implement an equivalent of a CL's WITH- macro 22:35:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-10-226.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:59 Joreji_ [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:36:07 p_l: you have a nice syntax for blocks; might as well use a higher-order function. 22:36:13 p_l: oh good luck there :P you don't get real macros sadly, though if you're generating code you shoulnd't need them 22:36:55 cl->ruby would be neat. cl-ruby would also be neat. 22:37:22 pkhuong: yes, but it's more a case for *other* people than me to easily "annotate" code with stuff that will go into trace log 22:38:01 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:38:29 *p_l* is kinda copying some of the google stuff for his coursework project 22:39:02 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:39:48 oGMo: cl-ruby probably wouldn't be that hard 22:39:52 p_l: look at ContextR then. if it follows the papers which have been published about ContextJ and ContextL, then it should have method combination and be nice as a way to extend. but i think it should include anything you need. 22:40:08 p_l: the ruby grammar is not at all easy. 22:40:53 H4ns: I wasn't thinking about grammar, so I missed that. Yeah, it wouldn't be easy -_-; 22:40:54 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.169] has joined #lisp 22:41:09 What's hard is that it's not documented. You have to use Ruby sources. 22:42:15 pjb: that's for Context* ? 22:43:16 p_l: i hear the actual parsing is somewhat nontrivial, but if you don't support MRI modules it wouldn't be too much. 22:43:33 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:49 C modules, that is 22:44:14 oGMo: there's a push for more FFI instead of C-based extensions 22:44:16 and really you would probably have a comparatively easy time of that 22:44:34 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:44:51 oGMo: yes, but I think I'll have a lot more time needed to figure out the algorithms involved as well as build the infrastructure 22:44:54 p_l: i can see it making things more portable between implementations 22:45:00 we have a waaay too high bus-factor in our project 22:45:15 bus-factor? 22:45:57 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:47:03 the "got hit by bus" stuff 22:47:08 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:47:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:47:33 oh a new buzzword for "someone hasn't documented their stuff" 22:47:57 oGMo: not really 22:48:08 oGMo: it's not just documentation. Understanding the system itself is an issue. 22:48:09 it's an old term for amount of stuff depending on single person 22:48:17 in this case, me 22:48:35 I invented from scratch and hold in my head the whole infrastructure 22:48:38 pkhuong: which can be documented :p 22:48:45 but yeah. 22:48:53 oGMo: there's question of skills as well 22:49:31 while I wouldn't say I'm "better" than other guys in the team, our skillsets are wildly different... well, the skillset of me and rest of the team 22:49:48 p_l: of course, you can't just replace someone like that either, but this is also why being able to read and understand source is critical 22:50:11 (for someone who's replacing the bussed-out guy) 22:52:16 p_l: do you consider that to be a good or a bad thing? 22:53:09 p_l: high bus factors are better. 22:53:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:54:09 sykopomp: I calculate it as 1/ 22:54:17 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-397253.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:31 damn 22:54:36 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:36 broken math day 22:54:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:55:11 but the real question remains: Is it a spherical bus of uniform density? 22:55:16 1/(team_size - bussed_people) 22:55:51 Phoodus: that's actually outside the scope, better question would be is the "bussed out" a binary state or a fuzzy state? 22:55:52 In any case, the problem with lisp really is not parentheses, but its bus-factor. 22:56:01 ^ 22:56:12 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:56:17 I'm the sole lisper in a team of 6 22:56:18 p_l: given the difference between 'bussed' and 'bused', I'm not sure I want to go there... 22:56:20 high bus factor also hurts when you're 2000 miles away and you're the only one who can fix the problem :P 22:56:25 on vacation, say 22:56:35 oGMo: I charge approprately for such calls 22:56:45 In any random project, you can send your team on holidays in the same plane, have it crashed, and replace them all with other java or ruby monkeys without a glitch in the projet planning. Not so with lisp. 22:56:52 p_l: i was sadly not a consultant at the time 22:57:05 oGMo: you should have made sure about such cases in contract 22:57:11 hah 22:57:52 Just hire three lispers, one in Americas, one in Europe, one in Asia, and have them work remotely. 22:58:14 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:15 I heard that's how google tends to manage their servers... 22:58:24 Forbid them to go to the same ELS / ILC together. 22:58:42 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-3.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:59 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:11:35 -!- dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:36 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:34 kpal [~kpal@5ad6612e.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:19:23 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:20:28 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:20:28 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 23:20:43 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.91] has joined #lisp 23:22:32 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:49 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@178.47.208.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:23 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:45 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:29 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:37:36 pjb: I wish to see evidence supporting that claim 23:38:35 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:09 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:40:45 Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:43:35 -!- ghuntley_ [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: kthxbye] 23:44:01 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:49:58 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:23 wham 23:50:36 finished writing basic readme, and githubbed my super-duper logging lib 23:50:39 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:45 https://github.com/7max/log4cl 23:50:57 would welcome testing/suggestions/comments etc... 23:51:04 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:51:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:51:49 Joreji [~thomas@74-028.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:51:49 is it avail on quicklisp ? 23:52:04 is it documented ? 23:52:19 no, i guess I can request xach to include it, not sure about the whole protocol 23:52:33 does not he have to check it out and verify its not lame first? 23:52:35 hmm ok 23:52:49 should be pretty easy to install with local-projects thing 23:53:06 what do you use it for mainly ? 23:53:15 logging servers ? 23:53:21 pretty much everything I do 23:53:21 or the running lisp ? 23:53:53 its pretty full featured, but need to write a manual.. Everything implemented from log4j, except filters, and xml config 23:54:01 maxm--: does it have extendable appenders? 23:54:05 of course 23:54:12 oh, there's layouts 23:54:20 somehow I missed it :) 23:54:22 see the readme on github page, it shows the basics 23:54:26 yeah, reading it 23:54:41 ah, its coz (log:config) is just REPL front-end 23:55:01 you need to get into log4cl-impl package docstrings.. 23:55:08 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-229.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:55:18 they will eventually become a manual... See src/appender-base.lisp and src/appender.lisp 23:55:35 maxm--: I was thinking of making logging into binary stream 23:55:43 implemented are stream-appender, fixed-stream-appender, console-appender, rolling-file-appender-base, daily-rolling-appender etc 23:56:34 p-l: (defclass my-appender (stream-appender) ()) (defmethod appender-stream ((a my-appender)) ... return stream ...) is all thats needed to make a new appender 23:56:48 cool 23:57:14 and now it might sound stupid, but have measured overhead? :) 23:57:26 logging case, around 90% speed of log4j 23:57:39 non-logging case around factor of 10 faster then log4j 23:57:45 see tests/speed.lisp 23:57:59 and corresponding test.java 23:58:37 also it does not cons :-) mostly 23:58:52 great 23:59:08 now just to wrap it in few macros... ;) 23:59:32 meh, its already macro on top of macro.. 23:59:37 *maxm--* went for usability