00:00:45 LoneLisp` [~farzadbek@46.225.105.56] has joined #lisp 00:01:54 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:02:01 -!- LoneLisper [~farzadbek@46.225.105.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:02:09 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:07 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:22 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:05:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:21 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl5-19-52.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 00:09:25 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:47 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 00:11:24 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:18:39 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-140-226.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:32 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:20:42 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:21:17 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:46 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:18 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22:45 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:22:48 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:23:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:28:35 -!- LoneLisp` [~farzadbek@46.225.105.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:52 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has joined #lisp 00:31:47 What scope does (local-time::define-timezone ) place the resulting object in? 00:32:32 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:33:31 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 00:38:38 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I remember the future.] 00:40:37 antoszka: global scope 00:42:31 dlowe: So I need to predefine an object of that type when writing functions referring to it, so that I do not get an undefined variable warning? 00:42:47 (and then perhaps modify it in flight?) 00:44:15 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 00:44:19 -!- kloeri_ is now known as kloeri 00:52:55 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:53:28 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:44 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:56:14 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-113.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:30 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:59 antoszka: or just use define-timezone. They should be constant. 00:57:18 Timezones should, I mean 00:57:38 Thanks. 01:00:17 I wish it had a construct letting me (let ((current-tz (get-timezone #P"/some/zonefile"))) (format-timestring  :timezone current-tz)), but I can't think of a way to do it like that. 01:02:28 timezone parsing is pretty slow. I don't think you'd like it 01:02:40 -!- egn_ [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:02:56 Oh, that's the reason. Hadn't thought of that. 01:03:35 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:41 So I guess I could pre-parse all the TZ's at program launch. 01:03:57 All? *boggle* 01:04:20 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052097168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:04:55 I need world-clock functionality somewhere. Basically, I want it to answer the what is the time at Some/Timezone question. 01:05:24 (given the US/Eastern timezone file-naming-convention) 01:05:38 meister_ [~meister@pool-74-103-152-206.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:38 antoszka: in that case, I'd look at the definition for define-timezone and read the timezones manually 01:05:51 using the unexported functions from local-time 01:05:57 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 01:06:27 Well, I'm already doing that, hence my first question. I just wasn't sure how to understand the scope and wished for a lettable construct. 01:06:33 Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:35 Otherwise it seems to be working. 01:06:40 neat :) 01:07:46 dlowe: Thanks for the code :) 01:08:18 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:20 Hello, I'm a long-time programmer but CL/SLIME-noob and I had a few questions 01:09:43 kai_ [~kai@f052096119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:09:44 How do I enable debugging so that I can use "v-view source for the frame" in Steel Bank Common Lisp. 01:10:58 It's been a long time since I used IRC and I'm rusty on etiquette so I apologize if I'm interrupting a discussion. 01:11:27 Not at all. 01:11:41 You should be able to "just use" it if you compiled the code within that slime session 01:12:33 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:13:05 A bit of background - I'm using emacs/slime. I compiled Steel Bank Common Lisp from source. 01:13:29 I never thought to use v. I usually just M-. on the function name 01:13:35 depends on what granularity of debug info you want. it should go to the right function by default. if you want it to highlight the right subform in the function, you need to compile with at least (debug 2) 01:13:58 woah, I didn't know it would do that! 01:14:13 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:14:30 ouch :-D 01:14:46 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:14:58 Ok, M-. I hadn't thought of that. 01:15:49 I have a preconceived notion that if an error happens on a specific line in a function that when I hit "v" in the backtrace it would jump to the line in the function. 01:16:02 sometimes that works, too (: 01:16:26 Can I paste a few lines of code into the discussion? 01:16:43 please use paste.lisp.org 01:16:48 davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:52 meister_: as I wrote a couple of minutes ago, it will do that if you compile with (debug 2) 01:18:16 dlowe: Thanks - I just did http://paste.lisp.org/+2QOV 01:18:25 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:41 The idea is when I get the following traceback 01:19:21 Traceback: http://paste.lisp.org/+2QOW 01:20:25 I move to the traceback window, move the cursor to 0: (XXX 5) and hit "v" - I expect to jump to the second a ref but it says: "Error: The source path no longer exists". 01:20:34 I feel like I'm missing something. 01:20:43 um, is that function in a file? 01:20:51 or written on the repl? 01:20:57 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:17 It is in a file "test.l" that was written out to disk before I evaluated (a 5) 01:22:14 so you put the functions in a file, compiled+loaded the file with C-c C-k, and then evaluated (a 5) in the repl? 01:22:23 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:03 if you did that, the proclaim should be a declaim 01:23:06 -!- kmcorbett [kmcorbett@clozure-9FE07BBF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:23:52 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:23:53 I evaluated in the emacs window with C-c,C-p 01:24:04 emacs/slime is awesome 01:24:34 proclaim vs declaim - hmm, let me read the CLHS 01:24:40 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:25:14 well, that'd mainly matter for getting the subform level information. it wouldn't cause an outright error 01:26:00 I read the entries on "proclaim" and "declaim" I'm a bit confused as to what they do. 01:26:01 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:26:10 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@mobile-198-228-193-123.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:32 jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-51.cust.suomicom.fi] has joined #lisp 01:26:44 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436662.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:27:08 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:27:20 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:32 I changed (proclaim '(optimize debug)) to (declaim '(optimize debug)) - it still says "The source path no longer exists" 01:28:37 right, like I said above, this would not be the cause of an error, just of getting imprecise results 01:28:46 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:51 if you're compiling + loading the file properly, I don't know what the issue is 01:29:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-146.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:51 Ok - I'll do more digging. I'm not even sure how debugging in slime is supposed to work or what I can expect it to do. 01:30:57 hey jsnell! 01:31:01 I really appreciate the help though. 01:31:44 yo, slyrus! 01:32:12 am I correct in recalling that you've joined teclo? 01:32:26 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:32:32 well, a year ago :-) 01:32:43 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@bdn33-2-89-86-25-253.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:32 nice :) I've been ... distracted. 01:34:10 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:23 but I'm on a ski vacation with a busted leg, so I've been trying to hack on some various lispy things for the first time in months 01:35:17 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:36:29 ouch. I read that sloppily first and was about to say "cool!" to the lisp hacking, but it probably wouldn't be appropriate to the busted leg part 01:39:25 heh. leg's not too bad -- stress fracture, but it greatly limits the skiing. it's good for me to try to remember and hack every now and then. 01:43:06 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:43:25 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:53 Senmorta [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:15 -!- Senmorta [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:44:33 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:45:39 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128198042.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:50:59 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 01:52:07 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:20 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:17 slyrus: Where are you skiing (or not skiing)? 01:55:19 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:31 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052096119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:06 kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:36 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:01:53 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:02:22 How do I do regex-replace (From cl-ppcre) on files instead of just on strings? Thanks. 02:03:52 -!- kmcorbett [kmcorbett@clozure-5F85AF18.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 02:03:52 ravster: read the file into a string, run the replace, write it back out 02:04:16 ok, cool. thanks. 02:05:18 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@mobile-198-228-193-123.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:05:18 -!- kmcorbett_ is now known as kmcorbett 02:06:12 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: good night] 02:07:08 Joreji [~thomas@64-146.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:07:29 anyone ever worked with sw-http before? 02:07:56 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:09:22 gko [~gko@27.240.152.40] has joined #lisp 02:10:36 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:37 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:59 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:11 ok, guess I'll take that as a massive "no" 02:12:06 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:12:21 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:12:55 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:09 -!- meister_ [~meister@pool-74-103-152-206.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: meister_] 02:19:09 Ansik [~user@117.33.99.182] has joined #lisp 02:25:35 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 02:26:23 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 02:35:10 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.35.157] has joined #lisp 02:36:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.35.157] has quit [Changing host] 02:36:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:38:16 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:39:28 ghuntley_ [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:40:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:41:57 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:43:40 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:48 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:08 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:45:23 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:39 zmv [~zmv@186.204.150.191] has joined #lisp 02:47:15 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483D710.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:52 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A3C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:49:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-146.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:50:47 Joreji [~thomas@64-146.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:50:58 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:51:09 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 02:51:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4B50.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:30 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 02:53:05 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 02:53:16 adeht [void@shahih.muslim.st] has joined #lisp 02:53:16 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:18 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:59:19 fcl [~chatzilla@123.186.208.2] has joined #lisp 03:03:28 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:04:36 xiaoxu [~lenovo@2001:da8:d805:a217:8aae:1dff:fe29:5019] has joined #lisp 03:06:17 anyone know if there are any docs around for sw-http? 03:06:41 is there anybody? 03:06:59 I mean, besides the ~12 line readme at the github? 03:07:04 meister_ [~meister@pool-74-103-152-206.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@64-146.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:10:00 -!- xiaoxu [~lenovo@2001:da8:d805:a217:8aae:1dff:fe29:5019] has left #lisp 03:11:55 When I use ":if-exists :overwrite" on a file, and then do a write-sequence from a string to that file, it just adds new stuff to the end of the file instead of removing the old stuff and then adding new stuff. Why is this? I would expect that that would work with the :append flag. 03:12:05 enticeing [~chris@74.194.112.188] has joined #lisp 03:12:14 is there anyone here who might be able to help me? 03:13:13 this is my problem: http://pastebin.com/5jafR05a 03:13:31 basically, i'm confused why it's giving me a type-error, when the same type clearly works 03:13:54 xiaoxu [~lenovo@2001:da8:d805:a217:8aae:1dff:fe29:5019] has joined #lisp 03:14:19 it doesn't even work when i replace the slot-values with numbers 03:14:32 ravster: you need to use ":if-exists :supersede" 03:15:20 cesarbp [~user@187.193.216.239] has joined #lisp 03:15:24 nevermind, i found the problem 03:15:25 -!- enticeing [~chris@74.194.112.188] has quit [Client Quit] 03:15:42 inaimathi: thanks, will try that 03:17:10 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:25 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:18:45 is there anybody? 03:18:52 no 03:19:09 me neither 03:19:10 you are dog? 03:19:26 xiaoxu: We're all bots. You're the last person on Earth. 03:19:55 perfect 03:20:17 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:25:49 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:26:37 -!- meister_ [~meister@pool-74-103-152-206.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: meister_] 03:28:08 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:30 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436662.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:27 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436662.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:31:41 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:03 -!- rme [rme@13FF0A92.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:32:03 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:32:07 -!- ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:59 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:45 meister_ [~meister@pool-74-103-152-206.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:03 -!- italic [~em@unaffiliated/italic] has left #lisp 03:35:13 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37:23 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:44 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:41:29 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:15 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:25 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.41] has joined #lisp 03:49:18 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:51:11 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-235-204.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 03:53:19 mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has joined #lisp 03:55:12 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:00:03 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: alvis] 04:01:29 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:23 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:49 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:04:59 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-iezdvduslmstebhl] has joined #lisp 04:08:12 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-107-4-57-167.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:13 vigil_ante [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:40 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:10:08 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-144.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:10:54 soo, clsql thinks my sqlite3 db has no tables. sqlite3 CLI disagrees. ideas? 04:11:58 it's ridiculously big for an sqlite db, like almost 700 meg. maybe that's breaking something? feels like a stretch though, since I opened it just fine. 04:15:30 Incorrect filename? 04:15:55 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.207.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:20:21 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.28.126] has joined #lisp 04:20:35 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:21:07 Sgeo: # 04:22:42 it seems to be using it as the default db correctly 04:24:16 -!- mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:24:44 What happens when you use the sqlite3 on a nonexistent file? 04:33:21 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:14 Sgeo: ...hm it opens too. So, good thought there. guess I need to check my paths 04:36:36 thanks 04:36:53 You're welcome 04:37:07 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:22 babel is so fast compared to flexi-streams :o 04:42:01 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:04 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:45 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-144.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:52 flexi-streams are... more flexi 04:45:19 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-144.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:46:07 -!- xiaoxu [~lenovo@2001:da8:d805:a217:8aae:1dff:fe29:5019] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:46:49 xiaoxu [~lenovo@2001:da8:d805:a217:8aae:1dff:fe29:5019] has joined #lisp 04:48:25 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:14 xx 04:49:21 -!- xiaoxu [~lenovo@2001:da8:d805:a217:8aae:1dff:fe29:5019] has left #lisp 04:49:36 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-144.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:49:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:15 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436662.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:52 stassats`: and documented. I didn't expect an entire order of magnitude's difference, though. 04:52:37 can you also test sb-ext:octets-to-string? 04:55:07 mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has joined #lisp 04:55:38 babel is an order of magnitude faster than that, too. 04:55:43 *sykopomp* wonders if babel is broken. 04:55:55 what are you converting? 04:55:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.107.24] has joined #lisp 04:56:42 and it's totally possible, SBCL string I/O doesn't shine 04:56:43 I'm converting a bunch of strings to unsigned-byte 8 for output (so, string-to-octets) 04:57:04 i was interested in the encoding 04:57:27 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has joined #lisp 04:57:54 the encoding bit wasn't really showing up in my profile, but the boost is welcome anyway. 04:58:11 *sykopomp* is up from 3k reqs/s on sbcl to 5.5k \o/ 04:58:40 well, what encoding are you using? 04:58:47 utf-8 04:58:59 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:59:06 ok, that's what i wanted to hear 04:59:13 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:25 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:03:49 -!- vigil_ante [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:06:17 -!- meister_ [~meister@pool-74-103-152-206.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: meister_] 05:07:03 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:09:06 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-107-4-57-167.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:09:44 sykopomp: are you only talking to anglo-saxons? 05:10:09 not necessarily. The external-format should be user-configurable. 05:10:14 in practice. 05:10:19 I just happen to be testing against utf-8 right now. 05:10:34 in practice, I imagine it'll mostly be utf-8, if any. 05:11:00 Outputting utf-8 quickly in the general case is hard, but easy in practice, in a lot of languages. 05:11:05 -!- mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has quit [] 05:12:05 converting -from- utf-8 to octets was really the bit that was showing up in my profiling more. 05:12:14 nepnux [~wildnux@pool-71-252-145-78.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:22 same here. 05:12:23 or I guess from lisp strings to octets, rather. 05:12:30 that's *to* utf-8. 05:12:54 wouldn't that depend on the lisp's internal representation for strings? 05:13:30 that'd require a peculiar interpretation of vector. 05:13:30 I assumed that for SBCL and the like, it would just be a straight char->code point conversion. 05:13:52 sykopomp: what do you think utf-8 means? 05:14:04 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 05:14:23 pkhuong: I'm scared to answer. I want to say multibyte characters. :\ 05:14:30 sbcl doesn't use utf-8 internally, it's not practical 05:14:35 It's a variable-length encoding for unicode codepoints. I expect most CLs have character = code point (modulo 16 bit chars). 05:15:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:16:29 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:16:31 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:16:35 sykopomp: utf-8 *is* octets. 05:16:42 that's what the 8 is for. 05:16:46 anything is octets 05:16:57 it's logically octets :P 05:17:26 octets are ancient aliens 05:17:28 logically, utf is between 1 and 4 octets 05:17:41 yes. 05:17:53 Ralith: I'm glad we agree. 05:18:17 mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has joined #lisp 05:18:30 sykopomp: if you understand that, I'm not sure what you meant by "converting from utf-8 to octets" 05:19:54 Ralith: convert from strings (vectors of characters) to arrays of octets representing the code points that those characters are meant to represent. Is that not clear? 05:20:08 that's not what you said, no. 05:20:19 -!- fcl [~chatzilla@123.186.208.2] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 05:20:24 well, that's what I meant. 05:20:41 since we were talking about string-to-octets 05:20:52 yes, it did seem strange 05:21:04 sykopomp: I don't understand how "char -> code point conversion" differs from a conversion "*to* utf-8" then. 05:21:48 pkhuong: I was thinking of it in terms of "utf-8 character objects in lisp" vs "sequences of bytes representing those characters". Sorry. 05:22:00 utf-8 is an encoding. 05:22:09 utf-8 characters does not make sense. 05:22:12 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:21 lisp doesn't use utf-8 as an internal representation 05:22:33 you might mean Unicode, but Lisp characters aren't necessarily that either. 05:22:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:22:50 okay 05:22:51 hey folks. 05:22:59 sykopomp: utf-8 specifies how characters are represented by sequences of bytes. 05:23:13 s/character/codepoint/, but this is CL. 05:23:36 utf-16 being sequences of two-byte pairs, utf-32 being etc. 05:23:39 pkhuong: ...and my main mistake, as mentioned, is that I assumed lisp implementations represented them as such internally, which they don't necessarily. 05:24:01 point being 05:24:15 I'm happy about the free speed boost from using babel instead of flexi-streams! 05:24:22 ^^ 05:24:36 i doubt any implementation uses utf-8 internally, it's quite impractical 05:24:36 I don't know why I thought last time the topic of speed of these two libs came up, I thought flexi-streams was considered the fast one. 05:25:03 flexi-streams is rather about streams 05:25:07 stassats`: what would you say is the most practical internal representation for text? 05:25:22 Ralith: strings are vectors. That kills a lot of possibilities. 05:25:35 hm, good point 05:25:46 still, not what I really wanted to know 05:25:52 stassats`: what would you say is the most practical internal representation for *characters*? 05:25:53 sykopomp: and, as I wrote earlier, if you're mostly interested in english text, that's much easier to get right and fast than the general case. Same for western european. 05:26:07 Ralith: for characters? fixed length with one-to-one mapping to unicode codepoints 05:26:12 Ralith: who cares about individual characters? 05:26:30 pkhuong: with the understanding that they will be assembled into some sort of text-representing data structure. 05:26:43 I do not expect the details thereof to have a great deal of bearing on which character representation is optimal 05:26:59 Ralith: so you're looking for strings, but not CL:STRING? 05:27:06 not necessarily. 05:27:12 that is to say 05:27:19 you are correct in that I am not necessarily looking for CL:STRING. 05:27:29 'sjust an item of idle curiosity, though. 05:28:11 rope or vector of utf-8 bytes, I'd say. 05:28:56 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-12-181.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:28:58 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:29:11 that's if you care more about external communication than internal computation 05:29:22 and in the latter case? 05:29:49 what i said previously 05:29:49 stassats`: no. A lot of string processing can work directly on utf-8; it's self synchronising, and there can't be any false equality match. 05:30:51 oh right 05:31:48 I forgetaren't there multiple codepoints that map to single characters? 05:31:59 to the same, rather 05:32:14 Ralith: they might look the same. 05:32:41 things like 'combining umlat' + u and 'lowercase latin u with umlat' sound like the same character to me. 05:32:55 are they not? 05:33:07 they both sound pretty metal. 05:33:10 Ralith: that's often pre-processed away. That's two code points VS one, though. 05:33:32 right 05:34:00 still, I observe that even with UTF-32 or something along those lines, things like per-character iteration are nontrivial 05:34:00 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:34:18 Ralith: yup. But CL pretty much forces us to work with codepoints, not characters. 05:34:36 how so? 05:34:41 string processing is hard, let's stick to ASCII 05:34:45 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 05:34:57 Ralith: strings are vectors of characters (or subtypes thereof). 05:35:17 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:01 string operations are defined in terms of character operations. Try and downcase that etset now. 05:36:03 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has joined #lisp 05:36:52 etset? 05:37:03 Ralith: capital ss. 05:37:30 not sure I follow 05:37:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_s 05:37:47 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:37:50 eszet 05:37:53 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 05:38:11 stassats`: sorry, I think that was the french spelling. 05:38:12 t 05:38:20 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has joined #lisp 05:39:52 I mean I don't follow how that forces codepoints, or the relevance of downcasing 05:40:29 Ralith: string-downcase is specified as the result of mapping char-downcase. 05:41:04 and why wouldn't that work with a character-oriented representation? 05:41:24 because downcasing an Eszett yields two characters. 05:41:31 riverswain [~avery@67-41-229-111.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:50 With codepoints, we can be consistently stupid. 05:42:01 isn't it already downcased? 05:42:42 ah yes, it's the upcase that's a funky two characters. 05:43:55 or, depending on which continent you're on, \'{e} upcases to E or \'{E} in French. 05:44:37 and, as you point out, that e acute doesn't have to be encoded as a single codepoint. 05:44:49 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:45:01 well. 05:45:21 sure as hell am glad I don't need to implement a system to do this Right. 05:47:27 "right and fast" 05:47:50 stassats`: btw, with small leaf chunks, ropes offer lg(n) random access, along with much better density than UCS-4. And, as I said before, a lot of bulk operations can work on the utf-8 encoding directly. 05:48:25 -!- riverswain [~avery@67-41-229-111.slkc.qwest.net] has left #lisp 05:51:31 pspace [~andrew@d118-75-26-80.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 05:52:15 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-144-177.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:29 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:53:08 Ah. CL strings and why they suck. :) 05:53:17 As usual, the answer is 'mutability'. 05:53:29 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:53:59 And being vectors, probably. 05:54:12 Get rid of those two points, and it's hard to go too wrong. 05:54:16 Zhivago: even without mutability, there's a lot of suckage. Vectors of characters hurts a lot. 05:54:45 Yes. Although the real problem is characters, now that I think back. 05:54:52 what else instead of vectors? 05:54:54 Get rid of characters and there's no problem with vectors. 05:55:23 Well, really, you can just compose strings out of substrings. 05:55:51 what about random access? 05:55:55 But that seems to upset a lot of people, so having vectors of code-points or something is probably ok, as long as you don't confuse them with characters. 05:56:11 Random access on strings is silly. 05:56:20 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.41] has joined #lisp 05:56:23 is it? 05:56:28 Yes. 05:56:39 hmm, i'm a bit disappointed that this sony monitor only tilts back 10 degrees 05:56:55 stassats`: vectors per se aren't bad, is that it means we have to support random access, and that complicates things a lot... I'm not sure what uses there are for random access. 05:57:46 i often use random access when parsing strings 05:57:53 Why? 05:58:04 because it's fast 05:58:12 For what? 05:58:22 stassats`: how random is it? jumping a couple characters forward and backward? 05:58:35 Probably prefix matching on the tail. 05:58:52 pkhuong: yes, the strings aren't large per se 05:59:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:01:04 stassats`: so O([change in position]) random access isn't too bad? 06:01:19 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:49 that depends on the number of times i need to parse it 06:01:57 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.148.59.35] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:03:41 stassats: Are you using it for something other than prefix matching on the remainder of the string? 06:04:59 i'll paste it 06:05:13 *Sgeo* ponders Clojure 06:05:21 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127907 06:05:23 On the one hand, I like immutability. On the other hand, the JVM? Really? 06:05:43 Sgeo: The Java ecology is the important bit. 06:05:44 although it can be rewritten for sequential access, it'll look more complex 06:05:56 Also, no TCO, whereas at least CL is allowed to have TCO 06:07:06 I think that it would be simpler if you compose those consumers linearly, myself. 06:07:11 stassats`: you move the position 1 to the right at each operation. 06:07:48 in this case, yes 06:10:13 Then you could just return the remainder of the string after each successful parse. 06:10:23 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 06:10:44 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:02 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 06:11:27 I'm kind of hoping that javascript will bite the bullet and eliminate random access upon strings, but it seems unlikely. 06:11:41 or use an interface that exposes a cursor in the string. 06:11:42 Still, it gets everything else right, so ... 06:11:54 Expose it as a string. :) 06:12:50 With immutability it's easy to make an efficient substring operation. 06:13:39 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.41] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:13:47 And then you can treat your steams as strings. 06:14:43 lakkris [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:35 I actually like hidden state for that sort of caching. 06:15:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127907#1 06:15:57 rewritten it as sequential access, it's even slightly faster 06:16:31 Well, for composition, perhaps. 06:17:00 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:17:30 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:17:53 stassats`: with a cursor, you could keep the initial code, even with a variable-length encoding. 06:18:16 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@pool-71-252-145-78.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18:21 Which you'll need for unicode. :) 06:18:35 This is the real reason that random access on strings is silly. 06:19:24 What you consider to be a character is a composed-character-sequence. 06:19:38 -!- jakky [jokk@motherfucking.ddosking.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:19:44 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:22:47 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-255-62.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:51 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:22:56 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-255-62.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:25:08 nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:26:12 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:28:41 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:30:27 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:34:31 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-43.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:36:03 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.103.115] has joined #lisp 06:36:05 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-229-53.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:36:40 bubo [~bubo@88-117-8-61.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 06:38:03 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-218-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:49 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:39:19 pkhuong: I'm playing with napa-fft3 now. I have it wired into Shuffletron to display a simple spectrogram, but I'm toying toward something more interesting. 06:39:42 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 06:39:48 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:40:53 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:40:53 hefner: cool. I have some deadlines coming up soonish, but I'll try to hack in multi-dimensional FFTs, thread safety and decimation in time and frequency for both forward and inverse transforms. And maybe try and explain what it does. 06:41:59 wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:03 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45:40 -!- levi` is now known as levi 06:49:27 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:50:30 -!- mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:56:20 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-onznhxkihifprfbx] has joined #lisp 06:56:20 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-onznhxkihifprfbx] has quit [Changing host] 06:56:20 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:57:04 Question: 06:57:09 About UnCommon Web 06:57:37 Is it similar to Smalltalk's Seaside? I know I don't like the bizarre URLs of Seaside. 07:00:27 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:00:54 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: shutdown] 07:00:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-43.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:21 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:02:47 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:23 mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has joined #lisp 07:05:14 splittist [~splittist@74-104.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:05:21 morning 07:08:50 -!- wildnux_ [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:11:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-12-224.bla800.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:12:31 -!- splittist [~splittist@74-104.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist] 07:13:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:13:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:16:23 -!- mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:16:31 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:16:56 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:17:46 -!- cesarbp [~user@187.193.216.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:18:04 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:18:24 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:19 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:22:19 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 07:32:19 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 07:34:38 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:45 nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:36:31 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:39:02 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 07:40:46 sykopomp: i just test, and sb-ext:octets-to-string is actually faster for me for ASCII strings and the same on two-byte characters 07:41:37 maybe my test is unscientific, because it uses the same character 07:43:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:44:51 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-26.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:15 tried on a random string, the same performance 07:47:43 Is arnesi generally liked? 07:47:51 What of its #L reader macro? 07:47:54 no 07:47:57 (I think I saw that discussed recently) 07:47:58 o.O 07:49:06 Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:18 How not? 07:51:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:02 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:52:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.103.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:53:10 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:58:42 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-98-117-65-239.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:00:32 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:33 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:02:44 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:10:20 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:11:26 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:12:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.107.24] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:13:05 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-12-224.bla800.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 08:14:14 blandest [~user@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 08:15:21 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 08:16:20 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:22:34 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1325.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:36 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 08:46:31 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-134-200.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:56 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-144-177.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:51:56 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-140-226.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:56 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-255-62.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:10 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-255-62.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:54:23 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Quit: Hhhhheeeeeeellllllllpppppppppppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!] 08:54:26 kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #lisp 09:00:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:01:53 good morning 09:05:08 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:07:22 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:49 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:21:09 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 09:21:13 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:23:21 rudi [~rudi@120.138.81.178] has joined #lisp 09:26:54 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA1216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:28:35 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1325.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:53 -!- Ansik [~user@117.33.99.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:22 Ansik [~user@117.33.106.40] has joined #lisp 09:34:35 -!- rudi [~rudi@120.138.81.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:36:23 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 09:37:26 namoamitabuddha [~namoamita@116.230.16.162] has joined #lisp 09:37:39 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:38:57 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:39:01 How to define a variable pointing to itself? 09:39:12 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:39:59 Lisp doesn't have pointers. 09:40:25 And variables are not first class objects, generally speaking, except for global symbols. 09:40:37 I guess that (defvar x 'x) might be what you mean. 09:41:00 In scheme: 09:41:13 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 09:41:15 (define a (cons 0 0)) 09:41:20 (set-car! a a) 09:41:24 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:41:28 That doesn't do anything like what you said at all. 09:41:36 ? 09:41:44 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl5-19-52.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:42:03 That makes a cons block that refers to itself. 09:42:10 No variable involved. 09:42:24 You can do the same in CL. 09:42:40 (defvar a (cons 0 0)) (setf (car a) a) 09:42:45 I didn't express well but I want a simpler way without 'set!' 09:42:58 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:58 Use #= notation. 09:43:38 namoamitabuddha: (defparameter *a* #1=(#1# . 0)) 09:44:00 jdz: what about in scheme? 09:44:06 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-vcodbepykvpmkppp] has joined #lisp 09:44:23 namoamitabuddha: what about scheme? you want #scheme or what? 09:44:36 Scheme possesses no such notation, iirc. 09:45:39 -!- Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: We be chillin - IceChat style] 09:45:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:07 Thus such ugly expression is necessary? 09:47:07 namoamitabuddha: which one is ugly? 09:47:22 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:47:40 jdz: set! 09:47:49 namoamitabuddha: what's ugly about it? 09:48:05 jdz: It's not direct. 09:48:21 namoamitabuddha: i hope you understand that it cannot be, either. 09:49:31 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:49:55 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:52:59 yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has joined #lisp 09:58:06 -!- Ansik [~user@117.33.106.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:10 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:00:25 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:00:31 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 10:00:55 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:38 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 10:03:11 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 10:06:28 -!- namoamitabuddha [~namoamita@116.230.16.162] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 10:09:23 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:33 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl5-19-52.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:41 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl5-19-52.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:14:45 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:37 -!- lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:16:24 what's not direct about the above, anyway? 10:18:31 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:19:02 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.28.126] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 10:20:11 it's not clear what direct means 10:20:43 I guess it means that the data does not correspond to a piece of syntax 10:21:08 and the reason it "can't be direct" is that lisp syntax is a (finite) tree rather than a graph 10:22:08 -!- CrazyEddy [~detainabl@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22:12 tomodo: unless the above mentioned reader macros are used 10:25:51 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 10:28:08 the #n# thingie basically makes the syntax tree a graph (still restricted, though, because you can reference either direct children (implicitly) or parents, not arbitrary nodes) 10:28:49 (or am I wrong?) 10:30:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 10:30:35 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-248-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:32:58 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-140-226.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:35:16 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.207.74] has joined #lisp 10:37:08 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:37:36 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 10:38:36 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:40:55 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:44 xjrn_ [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:25 TheMue [~TheMue@pC19F6AEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:31 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:52:49 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:10 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 10:53:14 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:53:18 saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 10:55:56 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:58:05 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:58:30 -!- gko [~gko@27.240.152.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:59:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:00:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:14:30 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 11:14:44 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:15 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:15:16 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 11:16:53 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 11:16:53 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 11:16:54 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:18:13 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:29:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.181.163] has joined #lisp 11:29:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.181.163] has quit [Changing host] 11:29:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:31:22 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129253233.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 11:33:41 quazimodo [~quazimodo@120.18.64.19] has joined #lisp 11:42:47 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: work work] 11:42:52 daniel__1 [~daniel@p508295E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:08 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082B970.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:44:21 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-26.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:44:49 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:27 antoszka: you can write (let ((current-tz (load-time-value (get-timezone #P"/some/zonefile")))) (format-timestring  :timezone current-tz)) so the slowness occurs only once at loadtime. 11:47:10 pjb: Thx. 11:47:18 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:48:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:00 vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:50:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:52:21 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:44 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:55:33 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 11:58:33 -!- benny [~benny@i577A749F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:01:34 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-255-62.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 12:05:34 kai_ [~kai@e177091128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:45 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 12:16:19 stassats`: hi! did p_l chat with you re commonqt and old qts? 12:16:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:17:15 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:25 -!- lusory_ [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:39 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:43 lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:18:28 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 12:18:32 morning 12:18:52 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 12:21:45 morning 12:22:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:22:53 stassats`: http://paste.lisp.org/+2QOM/1 <--- further corrected, now should build on old and new 12:25:25 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@120.18.64.19] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:26:09 quazimodo [~quazimodo@120.18.64.19] has joined #lisp 12:27:10 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:30 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129253233.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:28:21 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 12:28:55 youlysses [~youlysses@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:10 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has joined #lisp 12:31:39 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 12:33:10 knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:14 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-iezdvduslmstebhl] has left #lisp 12:43:32 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:45:26 -!- bubo [~bubo@88-117-8-61.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 12:49:59 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:12 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:57:31 -!- xjrn_ [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:59:34 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 12:59:49 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:02 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:01:03 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:19 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:02:44 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120215222917]] 13:03:10 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:04:51 megamind [~Nevermind@113.190.234.46] has joined #lisp 13:07:31 yawns 13:07:43 -!- spacebat` is now known as spacebat 13:08:04 uh 13:08:19 xudonghuang [~user@222.213.60.172] has joined #lisp 13:08:34 -!- xudonghuang [~user@222.213.60.172] has left #lisp 13:08:37 p_l: it doesn't build on old ones? 13:08:57 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:08:57 stassats`: Debian stable got Qt from medieval times 13:09:17 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:33 can you build it there at all? 13:10:05 xudonghuang [~user@222.213.60.172] has joined #lisp 13:10:45 -!- xudonghuang [~user@222.213.60.172] has left #lisp 13:11:06 stassats`: I figure it built before, because that's the platform Xach tested it... 13:11:32 i have qt 4.7.3 and it builds fine with either -lsmokebase or without -lsmokebase 13:11:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:11:52 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 is the problem in qt or in smoke? 13:14:00 looks like the latter 13:14:54 hmm, why is it seems in-style to use (with-whatever ((obj) &bodybody) type macros 13:15:31 while most 1-body CL forms don't have extra parenthesis, ie with-slots 13:16:46 maxm-: that means there's always a place for keyword arguments, ie. for extensions ... (with-whatever (obj :bar 1 :baz 2)....) 13:16:46 *maxm-* always mis-remembers if its (with-whatever (whateer-of obj)) or (with-whatever ((whatever-of obj)) in different libraries 13:16:48 maxm-: extra parentheses? (defmacro with-whatever ((obj) &body body) ..) -> (with-whatever (obj) ...body...) 13:17:43 maxm-: (with-slots (slot-entry*) ...body...) is just like that. 13:17:49 no 13:18:24 if the object you want to work with is in a variable, its (with-slots (slotlist) var ...body ...) 13:18:58 if it was defined like so (defmacro with-slots (slotlist (obj))), then it would have been (with-slots (slotlist) (var)) 13:19:20 right 13:19:50 anyway, as far as always having the () there -- I've heard it mentioned that it's a good idea for user macros because it's more future-proof. 13:20:22 espadrine [~thaddee_t@AMontsouris-157-1-121-253.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:20:30 so even when I write my own with-whatever, and I don't need any arguments, I'll put the () there just in case I want options in the future (and I often end up needing them) 13:20:56 yea I guess.. still does not stop me from forgetting them when object I work with is returned by function call, since visually (with-something (foo-returning-something) ..) looks "righter" then (with-something ((foo-returning-something)) .. 13:20:58 standard macros have the benefit of stability :3 13:21:15 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has joined #lisp 13:22:22 man cnbc is hilarious, they are making the female anchor do tongue twister about fig plucking, and it sounds exactly like what you think it does 13:22:38 maxm-: sounds like off-topic 13:22:48 sorry wrong window 13:23:16 *maxm-* needs to modify his emacs color scheme to make status bar stand out more 13:23:17 I want a tshirt that says "sorry wrong window" 13:23:18 Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:56 Not watching TV would help too. 13:26:02 ChibaPet: have to have cnbc on when trading, talking heads talk nonsense, but because of a huge audience even nonsense moves the markets 13:27:59 its actually a quite interesting area, similar to placebo effect. The technical analysis sometimes works, only because people believe in it, and since large mass of people believe that crossing some arbitrary drawn line means something, in in fact starts to mean something, because people beleiving so adjust their behavior due to their beleif 13:28:42 *maxm-* re-reads his statement and is unsure if its nonsense or profound :-) 13:29:15 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:29:17 meister_ [~meister@pool-74-103-152-206.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:35 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:29:37 maxm-: read http://lesswrong.com/ 13:29:57 heh 13:30:03 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA1216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:30:49 -!- m0prl is now known as clarkema 13:31:13 flip215: thanks for the link, very interesting 13:31:42 maxm-: yes, there's quite a lot of information there ... 13:32:37 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@120.18.64.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:32:51 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:34:52 [1]knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:04 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:45 -!- meister_ [~meister@pool-74-103-152-206.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: meister_] 13:37:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:37:25 -!- knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:37:26 -!- [1]knob is now known as knob 13:41:22 v0yager [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:41 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:42:46 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.136.192] has joined #lisp 13:43:56 Damn those parentheses ! I miss them :( 13:45:05 You may have some of mine. 13:46:16 megamind: do you want to buy a subscription? I have a webservice that offers different kind of parentheses, really cheap 13:46:41 here's a free teaser to close that frownie: ) 13:47:09 *megamind* haven't received his salary this month yet. 13:47:57 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:49:13 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:30 Xach, would be great ;)) 13:51:07 btw. is that lisp image a bulk of functions ? 13:51:23 ( in compiled form ? ) 13:52:23 *stassats`* can't seem to find the solution to the commonqt problem 13:53:00 megamind: functions and other objects 13:53:37 interestingly, libsmokebase gets linked automatically here 13:53:56 stassats`: i have no libsmokebase available or visible in apt-file 13:54:17 Xach: yeah, i got that 13:54:23 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:54:55 newer versions seem to be unable to link to libsmokebase automatically 13:56:29 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:17 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:02:55 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:01 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-196-113.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:32 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:04:18 Why do people use linux workstations again? 14:04:31 there's nothing better 14:04:43 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:05:23 stassats`: I'd say "there's also nothing worse", but Windows makes that difficult. 14:05:49 stassats`: the latest correction only links to smokebase if Qt >4.4, because it seems to have been changed around kdebindings 4.5 14:05:55 hi,do someone use allegro cache? how can i store a hash table in allegrocache?how can i define encode-object decode-object for a hash-table. 14:06:30 p_l: how version of kdebindings is dependant on the version of Qt? 14:06:35 stassats`: 1:1 14:06:47 dunno about people, but I'd get a mac a long time ago if the hardware just didn't rub me wrong (no, I'm unable to elaborate on that) 14:06:47 cfy: I don't know if many here use allegrocache, but their mailing list and support staff are very responsive 14:06:51 or so it seems to me 14:07:06 Xach: Oh,thanks 14:07:28 and there i thought that its version reflects the version of KDE, not Qt 14:07:35 stassats`: KDE seems to be tracking Qt versions one to one 14:07:51 not to me, at least 14:08:31 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:08:41 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:47 oh? well, it was the closest I could get 14:08:54 I find qmake abhorrent 14:09:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:26 (the functions to check it are undocumented, and Smoke doesn't use pkg-config...) 14:09:34 *check versions 14:11:49 kdebindings 4.5 seem to be the version that changed the linking 14:11:55 well, then the users of old kdebindings are out of luck 14:12:08 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:12:10 heh 14:12:32 the joys of the linux desktop 14:12:54 LoL, exactly 14:13:10 the same problem would be on mac os too 14:13:38 and windows got smokebase hardcoded before 14:18:07 well, the problem is easy to solve by hand 14:18:56 or foot, if you type with your feet 14:19:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.152.191] has joined #lisp 14:19:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.152.191] has quit [Changing host] 14:19:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:20:45 Froward [~PANZERKON@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 14:21:01 _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.115.128] has joined #lisp 14:21:33 ufff... Another interview finished! 14:22:12 p_l, how was the candidate? ;-) 14:22:38 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:22:53 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.65] has joined #lisp 14:23:22 stassats`: you don't know life until you crosscompile smoke stuff for ARM using bitbake ;) 14:24:00 i hope i never get to know life, then 14:24:08 yakov: I was the candidate :) 14:25:17 p_l: Where'd you interview? 14:25:27 p_l: then your answer should be 'briliant' 14:25:30 sellout: phone screen with Google 14:25:52 p_l: Oh cool  any idea which group / location you're looking at? 14:26:11 They have a Lisp group in Boston ;) 14:26:24 sellout: Google Dublin, Site Reliability Engineer team, with software developement position 14:26:52 that doesn't smell lispy 14:26:55 the programming question was done in CL, btw :) 14:27:16 phew 14:27:41 were they able to run it? 14:27:47 I was asked later to translate it into one of their production languages, but algorithm was done in CL 14:28:01 stassats`: afaik the engineer interviewing me was at least a former lisper 14:28:19 there can't be "former" lispers 14:28:22 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:28 X-Scale [email@89.180.144.243] has joined #lisp 14:28:29 stassats`: "didn't use lisp recently" 14:28:32 There are only temporarily inactive ones. 14:28:32 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.115.128] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:28:33 :D 14:28:36 ^ 14:28:47 then he maybe wasn't a true lisper, after all 14:28:53 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest20075 14:29:12 but programming was minor part of the interview due to position I was applying (SRE instead of normal dev) 14:30:08 -!- knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30:44 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:31:43 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:31:51 "found lisp to be quite theoretical in uni and want to see whether it can really be used to solve problems" maybe 14:31:55 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:01 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:26 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 14:34:34 cesarbp [~user@187.193.216.239] has joined #lisp 14:34:55 or "yeah well, JS has closures too so why bother" 14:35:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:18 H4ns: Yeah, I met at lot of those at Amazon, too. I really admire Lisp, I just haven't found a project where it's a good fit, yet. 14:36:13 sellout: "right". in my experience, lisp is not a good "fit" for anything unless you really want it to :) 14:36:39 It fits everything. You just have to work with it until it does. 14:37:09 the it above may as well refer to the "everything" 14:37:35 To an extent. 14:38:28 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 14:39:07 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:50 *Odin-* thinks the moment it goes 'click' is when you realise that Lisp works at a level below where you're usually thinking; you spend most of your time mucking around with what everywhere else would be an opaque AST and difficult-to-get-at compiler bits. 14:40:05 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:05 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 14:41:43 oh... you reminded me that I need to reed again the Dragon book and LiSP 14:41:50 -!- yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:41:52 sellout: IMO OSX is far worse kernel-wise 14:42:11 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:42:43 if you say so... why android phone didn't beat iOS device ? 14:43:15 knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:15 Because technical superiority is not the sole determinant of success in commercial ventures? 14:43:17 they do...? 14:43:24 Then there's that. :) 14:43:28 fe[nl]ix: I agree. But my point was that it's all tradeoffs depending on what you look at. 14:43:36 megamind: there's a lot of difference in userland, and yeah, they are kicking the shit out of it (might not be visible that much in USA...) 14:43:53 fe[nl]ix: as someone whose Thinkpad has only recently stopped randomly failing to wake up from suspend, I'd be inclined to not value that criterion very highly 14:45:43 megamind: where I live and work, SGS II seems to be the new iPhone 4 (in that everybody around me is trotting one out) 14:46:02 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 14:46:06 in EU SGS was the *big* thing 14:46:31 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:45 SGS2 is pretty well going too 14:47:20 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:47:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.107.24] has joined #lisp 14:50:07 Anyways, the desktop metaphor was dumb. Instead of giving orders to the computers to let it do your work, with a "desktop" you had to do it yourself, constrainted to a single button mouse input. That's why "linux desktop" is oxymoronic. Linux is used to get work done, _by_ _the_ _computer_. 14:50:26 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-134-200.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 14:50:37 I know linux is cool. It's damn awesome. 14:50:41 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-134-200.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:01 megamind: no, linux is awful. But as said above, it's the less worst of them all. 14:51:11 in term of customization, hacking on your own... 14:51:15 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51:16 Yes. 14:51:22 megamind: that gives Android too. 14:51:25 netbsd 14:51:43 and MacOSX is also some kind of unix customization, Apple's having hacked its own. 14:51:47 Oh, next time I will finish my sentence in one line @.@ 14:51:51 good taste madnificent 14:52:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:52:21 [1]knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:23 8 undefined function warnings. After that my program is done? Really!? :-) 14:53:01 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:16 the desktop metaphor was an absolute breakthrough for its time. In order to learn something, there has to be some overlap with prior knowledge. The desktop metaphor allowed people to think of computers in terms of physical objects. 14:53:43 It's less useful nowadays because computer literacy is relatively very high 14:53:52 my computer resides on both sides of the desk 14:54:13 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:54:15 -!- knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:15 -!- [1]knob is now known as knob 14:54:22 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177091128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:31 dlowe: 'relatively' 14:54:32 dlowe: computer literacy isnot being able to use some kind of software, it's being able to program. 14:54:43 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:48 the so called "digital natives" tend to be incapable outside of FB 14:54:54 pjb: you have to use some kind of software to program :p 14:55:14 Look, people were having trouble figuring out what *files* were 14:55:15 jlongster [~user@pool-98-117-65-239.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:29 dlowe: when people slave hours on MS-Word, they have absolutely zero computer literacy. When they start thinking the computer should do it for them, and think about how to tell the computer how to do it, ie start to program, then they have some computer literacy. 14:55:37 dlowe: GUI don't lead to that. CLI do. 14:55:38 dlowe: punch holes in the card with scissors? 14:55:52 pjb: or when they simply switch word from "WYSIWYG" to "outline" mode... 14:56:19 dlowe: once you've typed three time the same kind of command in a CLI, you may be enticed to put them in a file and call it a script. Not when you do three time the same "work", mousing around. 14:56:21 pjb: that's a very constrained view of literacy 14:56:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:56:40 Not constrainted, a strict view. 14:56:47 doesn't Word have keyboard macros? 14:57:18 I hear it even has macros, kind of visual basic stuff, thru which MS-Word viruses spread. 14:57:38 kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:57:40 stassats`: and full blown programming interface, first through VBA, and through everything that can call COM (including PowerShell) 14:58:42 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:00:30 sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:23 mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has joined #lisp 15:02:06 -!- kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:02:17 kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 15:02:38 -!- mon_key- [~mon_key-@69.64.7.202] has quit [Client Quit] 15:06:43 -!- kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:53 kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 15:07:03 -!- kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:56 heck, one again, I'm asking if it's worth making separated functions to define variables, parameters, and functions or it's fine to treat them all like one ? 15:08:18 eh? 15:08:29 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:08:41 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:08:50 megamind: remember, #lisp is about common lisp 15:08:59 For short : (defun defvar defparameter) vs define 15:09:05 Hungarian Common Lisp uses "def" for all. 15:09:31 I'm actually asking for something that may be better this way :-? 15:09:35 Xach: wouldn't it be more like hungarian lisp vs. common lisp? 15:09:41 no mean to common lisp & scheme 15:10:27 megamind: Well, scheme is gradually bloating up. 15:10:33 H4ns: maybe! 15:10:36 megamind: Eventually it should get half away to CL. 15:10:38 megamind: how would you do DEFPARAMETER vs. DEFVAR using only DEFINE? 15:10:40 Xach: they really seem to be making their own thing, aren't they 15:11:08 jdz: (define var value :redefine t) 15:11:14 mega: Ah, you want everything in one namespace so that you have to pick stupid names like in python? 15:11:20 HCL 15:11:37 who's 'mega' by the way ? 15:11:40 :D 15:12:01 mega: Consider it an intelligence test. 15:12:01 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:10 jdz, schemer did it that way. So I'm thinking about those things's diff 15:13:16 *erence 15:13:51 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:31 stassats`: you're cheating (using named parameters :) 15:15:21 anyone know AjLisp ? 15:15:28 -!- kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:17:05 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:30 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:42 -!- vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 15:18:49 reading those .NET based lisp always hint me the difference between defun, defvar, defparameter and define. Most of implenmentations did the defining "something" process in non-CL way. I guess, for simplicity. 15:19:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:19:32 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.141] has joined #lisp 15:19:49 uabcl is a a straight port of ABCL (ANSI Common Lisp) to .NET 15:19:58 c.f. dmiles 15:20:27 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.141] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:20:33 It is lacking the abcl java5 bytecode compiler, so it can be a bit slow. 15:20:41 But the semantics are the same. 15:20:54 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.141] has joined #lisp 15:21:02 can it "quickload" something ? 15:21:07 Of course. 15:21:46 Guest9073 [~balthasar@host248-53-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:21:54 http://code.google.com/p/uabcl/ 15:21:54 -!- Guest9073 [~balthasar@host248-53-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:56 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:22:29 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.141] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:22:41 *easye* wiggles. "You might have to get out and push a bit.' 15:22:52 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.141] has joined #lisp 15:23:19 I can't see .NET src 15:23:20 =.=" 15:23:52 only Java 15:23:58 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24:06 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:17 [1]knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:37 It runs via IKM. 15:24:42 megamind: see the macro define in http://paste.lisp.org/display/126856 15:25:33 When I try to use SB-INT:ENCAPSULATE for advice-y kinds of things, it seems like the advice body is getting compiled each time it's called. Is there some way to avoid this? 15:25:53 Which takes the Java source from ABCL, which defines the CL semantics as an interpreter, and runs it on a .NET vm with a dll (the IKM part) that runs the thing. 15:26:32 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:26:46 -!- knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:26:46 -!- [1]knob is now known as knob 15:27:22 @pjb, a work of art. 15:27:29 kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #lisp 15:29:11 easye: had no idea about that project 15:29:27 easye: how slow does it run? 15:30:37 seem like I need to take less primative from my implementation. And keep only some enssential. Need your hints here to keep only minimal definitions in my Lisp / .NET (O 15:31:31 megamind: Is "your Lisp" a Common Lisp? 15:31:45 If not, I would prefer you discuss it somewhere else. 15:31:55 felideon: dunno. 15:32:00 *easye* doesn't do Windows. 15:32:11 Xach ofcause it's =.=" . 15:32:38 easye, ok, you can pass by it. 15:32:59 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:33:08 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:33:14 megamind: What does that mean? 15:33:55 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-188408.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 |SLB| [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 15:34:05 .......... 15:34:50 -!- |SLB| is now known as [SLB] 15:35:03 Xach, what do you mean ? 15:36:30 megamind: You seem to be rambling in incomplete sentences and broken English about something but I can't tell if it's on-topic because it will eventually be about Common Lisp, or just a bunch of garbage. 15:36:53 megamind: Please don't ramble any more unless you'd like to ramble about CL (or implementing CL). 15:39:05 megamind: If you pretend to be an intelligent person, Xach will be nicer to you. 15:39:58 I can't guarantee that. 15:41:04 -!- Guest20075 is now known as X-Scale 15:44:15 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 15:44:28 =.=" I'm not that smart, of cause. 15:45:17 megamind: please stop. discuss common lisp or keep quiet. thank you. 15:46:31 megamind: Pretending is sufficient. 15:51:37 urandom__ [~user@p548A46EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:33 Kron_ [~Kron@64.235.96.2] has joined #lisp 15:55:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.107.24] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:57:51 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:58:17 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.247.176] has joined #lisp 15:58:32 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:57 vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-247-151.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 16:01:30 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.247.176] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:30 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-124-101.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:06:53 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:11:15 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 16:13:35 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:05 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-247-151.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 16:17:15 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:59 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:19:55 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:21:05 Let's say I load a few lisp files into my repl, is there way to get a list of all the functions I loaded? Other than doing "grep defun [files]" in my shell? 16:21:33 howeyc: not anything as simple as (list-functions-i-loaded) or anything. 16:21:37 howeyc: not in general 16:21:51 howeyc: if you put the functions in a package, you could get a list of those symbols 16:22:06 howeyc: and then you could figure out which ones had function definitions 16:22:43 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 16:23:01 dlowe: how do i get list of symbols in a package? 16:24:21 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@176.222.152.191] has joined #lisp 16:24:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:24:24 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 16:24:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.152.191] has quit [Changing host] 16:24:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:24:39 howeyc: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/mac_do-symbol_-all-symbols.html 16:26:36 apropos is also useful: (apropos "" :package) will get you all symbols, but I find that I rarely actually want to look for all symbols 16:27:13 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:27:14 if your in slime (package: ...) to get exported symbols can also be useful 16:28:08 -!- wolgo [~jarrod@184-106-201-185.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:01 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@64.235.96.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29:39 awesome, thanks 16:30:28 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 16:31:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:00 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:12 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:59 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:32 kai_ [~kai@e177091128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:36:01 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:40 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:24 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 16:39:45 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:00 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:40:40 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:44:47 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-216.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:44:58 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:49:00 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-216.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:05 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-216.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:51:51 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:52:47 Hi, how do I see all slot values in an object? 16:53:31 -!- blandest [~user@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:53:33 I mean I have an object, but don't know what slot-values it contains, a way to list those? 16:54:31 francogrex: from the slime repl or from a program? 16:54:32 print-object setting? 16:54:49 describe or inspect will probably show them to you 16:54:55 from the inf-lisp repl 16:55:05 ok inspect I will try 16:55:38 francogrex: the slime inspector will inspect instances in a useful fashion, including all slots. 16:56:48 antgreen` [~user@70.50.67.203] has joined #lisp 16:56:58 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:57:36 strange, I have this with inspect: The object is a STANDARD-OBJECT of type SIMPLE-DATE-TIME:DATE-TIME and then YEAR: 2012 1.MONTH: 2 etc 16:57:53 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-151-48.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:00 but when I do (slot-value object 'YEAR) I get an error 16:58:09 wrong package? 16:58:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 jeez true 16:59:46 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:01:55 rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.200.233] has joined #lisp 17:02:12 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 17:03:03 so it should be (slot-value object 'SIMPLE-DATE-TIME:YEAR) ? 17:03:14 if that's what it is 17:03:38 it should -probably- be (simple-date-time:year-accessor object) 17:03:39 it's actually 'SIMPLE-DATE-TIME::YEAR 17:04:37 actually 17:04:49 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:05:02 francogrex: you should probably be using the interface functions defined in http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/simple-date.html 17:05:46 ok but (slot-value object 'SIMPLE-DATE-TIME::YEAR) works ok 17:05:49 oh. Wrong libraray. 17:05:52 nevermind. 17:06:45 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:00 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 -!- cesarbp is now known as cbp 17:07:21 have you tried using (simple-date-time:year-of object)? 17:07:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:06 ehu [~ehuels@mk089144206213.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:08 -!- cbp is now known as cbp_ 17:10:31 -!- cbp_ is now known as cbp` 17:10:54 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-255-62.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:11:49 -!- cbp` is now known as cbp_ 17:11:59 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:55 -!- cbp_ is now known as cbp` 17:13:35 (simple-date-time:year-of also works. Is it better that slot-value? 17:14:17 why is it year-of and not just year ? 17:15:06 ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:25 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:27 shouldn't it be instance-slot ? 17:18:14 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:29 but (simple-date-time::date-time-year object) doesn't work 17:19:58 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:02 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-384139.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:21:11 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-188408.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:22:22 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:23:55 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.28.37] has joined #lisp 17:24:09 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.65] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:24:09 cyrillos_ [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 17:24:27 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.101.15] has joined #lisp 17:26:35 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:12 frkout [~frkout@p24125-ipngn401akatuka.ibaraki.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:28:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:44 -!- kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:13 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A46EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:36:45 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:38:34 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:38:46 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-63.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@mk089144206213.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:40:07 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:41:37 naeg_ [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:41:51 Joreji [~thomas@78-165.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:42:01 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 17:43:50 kilon: have you looked at blocky.io yet? i am curious what you think about it 17:44:11 eMBee: what is that ? 17:44:16 it ring a bell 17:44:22 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:26 i got really bad memmory sorry :D 17:45:03 -!- pspace [~andrew@d118-75-26-80.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:45:07 dto's work 17:45:10 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:12 hard to summarize, look at the website: http://blocky.io 17:46:17 it kinda looks like squeak/etoys but in common lisp (a not not aimed at children) 17:46:37 since you worked with squeak i am curious what you think 17:46:53 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.130] has joined #lisp 17:47:23 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:50 otakutomo [~otakutomo@27.83.117.212] has joined #lisp 17:48:24 Alright Zach. How do I make a quicklisp distribution? 17:49:16 no screenshots 17:49:26 easye: make a distinfo.txt, systems.txt, and releases.txt 17:49:55 easye: have the distinfo.txt provide the name and link to systems.txt, have releases.txt point to tarballs, and have systems.txt provide info about system relationships. 17:50:04 there are screenshots, he posted the link here on irc yesterday or before yesterday 17:50:32 put them all on the web somewhere 17:50:36 well this could as well be my dream come true 17:50:46 lisp syntax in a visual environment 17:50:51 then use (ql-dist:install-dist "url-for-distinfo.txt") 17:50:55 easy as mud! 17:51:02 Cool beans. 17:51:08 *easye* gets crackin'. 17:51:33 easye: if you want to cheat, the md5 and sha1 values in the releases.txt are not currently checked, so you could use anything. 17:51:50 *easye* is still trying how to patch things. 17:52:25 bbertie [803e3e6d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.62.62.109] has joined #lisp 17:52:26 restas seems tres cool. Finally got it to work with non-ssl capable Hunchentoot. 17:52:27 eMBee: no i have not tried , i would like to but the page is not helpful, i am back to python by the way :D , python is not perfect but i love its libraries 17:52:35 kilon: you can also check the video, actually better than the screenshots 17:52:42 also, if you don't want to work out project relationships, you can just not list any relationships and hope they are demand-loaded correctly. 17:53:02 if you do work out relationships, it will download things up front rather than lazily in the error handler. 17:53:07 my connection is too slow , i would if it was streaming on youtube or something but i can find something 17:53:15 *cant 17:53:21 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.152] has joined #lisp 17:53:33 download and watch later? :-) the videos are short 17:53:35 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:38 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 17:53:39 anyway i dont think a one man project can compare to something as mature and smalltalk 17:53:50 oh, of course not 17:54:53 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:56:00 but i applaud the effort of course with a big smile 17:56:04 will definetly try it 17:56:06 thanks 17:56:16 and yes i will download the video 17:56:38 I am looking into adder too 17:56:41 welcome, i had thought you might be interested in it... 17:56:49 lisp that copiles to python 17:57:07 well not compiles more like converts source code 17:57:14 kilon: he didn't implement Common Lisp, just the graphic stuff. 17:57:30 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 17:57:33 kilon: in Squeak, not the same persons are implementing the Smalltalk VM and the graphic stuff either. 17:57:46 pjb: who said he did 17:58:32 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1216.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:51 You said: anyway i dont think a one man project can compare to something as mature and smalltalk 17:59:11 yeap that what i said 17:59:12 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:59:17 I bet if every built-in python library were re-implemented in CL, people would still find a reason not to use CL 17:59:22 *as mature as 17:59:48 i meant that smalltalk if a group effort that took decades to mature 17:59:52 *is 17:59:59 kilon: you are comparing apples and oranges. 18:00:06 yog [~yog@122.172.213.85] has joined #lisp 18:00:08 whats wrong with that ? 18:00:10 Common Lisp is also the result of a group effort that tooks decades to mature. 18:00:20 one can compare anything 18:00:36 kilon: #asylum is that way 18:00:42 i meant smalltalk the ide 18:00:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:12 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:41 i never got that apple and oranges remark , at least it does not make sense in greek they are both fruit why one cant compare them ? :D 18:02:58 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:33 kilon: it's just an idiom. it doesn't have to make sense. 18:04:12 i see 18:04:29 kilon: blocky.io is the result of several years of work by various people. I'm not sure how your statement applies to blocky.io, if that was what you were implying. 18:05:07 oh i thought it was an one man project 18:05:13 even above the basic lisp layer, there's all the CFFI stuff, the various libraries blocky.io uses (such as lb-sdl, cl-opengl, etc) 18:05:28 blocky.io stands pretty small on top of all that work by all those different people. 18:05:34 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-vcodbepykvpmkppp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:05:44 isnt blocky.io and graphic env / ide ? 18:05:49 *an 18:05:50 is it appropriate to simply ask a question during the flow of the discussion? 18:05:59 It is. 18:06:08 kilon: sure, but it's also built on top of all this other work by all these other people. 18:06:19 yesimnathan [~nathan@li319-200.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:19 dto has relatively little left to do at that point 18:06:20 Dull discussions are made only to pass time while waiting for interesting Lisp questions. 18:06:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:06:36 i dont get your point really, i never talked about the language 18:06:46 much like the folks working on the graphic ide bits of smalltalk have relatively little to do oncne the smalltalk vm has been built and all the supporting graphics libraries are there. 18:06:52 by the way i find lisp superior to smalltalk as a language 18:07:00 or else i would not be here :D 18:07:00 that's irrelevant 18:07:15 -!- yog [~yog@122.172.213.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:37 why not both 18:08:09 not that i dont like smalltalk as a language 18:08:40 well it really dependts smalltalk is not like lisp where the language is isolated from the ide 18:09:11 unless you look at gnu smalltalk 18:09:13 kilon: I have a smalltalk compiler with no IDE and no graphic stuff. 18:09:16 there are people who work on both and it depends from implementation to implementation, for example visualwork works on both 18:10:04 so its possible people who work on area to work in another area 18:10:07 hello sykopomp and friends, wait i am reading the back scroll. 18:10:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:10:31 for example elisp is close integrated with emacs 18:10:55 yog [~yog@122.172.213.85] has joined #lisp 18:10:59 dto: Summing it up: sykopomp says writing blocky.io was basically a NOP, so you shouldn't get any credit ;) 18:11:04 but as i said i was talking mainly for the graphical part 18:11:07 hmm :) 18:11:26 that's just the web domain. the project itself is just "blocky" i think 18:12:04 well it's a bit under 8kloc, so take that for what its worth relative to all the code size of all the various dependencies. 18:12:05 dto: Irrelevant  my IRC client makes "blocky.io" a clickable link, so it's the better way to write it. 18:12:10 oh i see 18:12:11 :) 18:12:32 ok lets download the video and see how fun blocky is 18:12:36 sellout: pffft 18:12:38 dto: I was just kidding though  I'm sure sykopomp doesn't actually devalue your work. 18:12:40 i dunno, do people feel like i am not giving enough credit on the site? im pretty sure i have 18:12:42 does it integrate with the debugger as well ? 18:12:52 I'm a lisp beginner, and I'm having trouble understanding how to pass a variable to a macro inside a function. I'm basically trying to define a function web-dev that takes a string projectname as an argument, loads the libraries that I'm using for the project, and then calls (defpackage projectname (...)) and (in-package projectname) so I can get started. The problem I'm having is that neither defpackage nor in-package actually take th 18:12:58 dto: No, he was just mentioning the "standing on the shoulders of giants" thing. 18:13:10 oh well thats why lisp is so awesome. 18:13:16 Agreed. 18:13:26 bbertie: you don't pass variables to macros. macros operate on the source code, not the runtime value the source code might represent. 18:13:37 sellout: basically, shoulders of giants, yes. 18:14:03 bbertie: MAKE-PACKAGE is a function that creates a package. IN-PACKAGE is a fancy way to set the value of CL:*PACKAGE*. 18:14:26 well as I said the page lead me to believe blocky was a one man project 18:14:27 not only that, but that blocky.io can very much compete with the likes of smalltalk, precisely because of those giants :) 18:14:29 kilon: the GUI stuff is in a pretty early state 18:14:30 that is why i said what i said 18:14:43 (and really, the massive amount of work dto himself has put in) 18:14:55 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 18:15:02 Xach: Thank you! I'll try using make-package. Your blog has been really interesting to read, by the way. And planet-lisp is a huge help. 18:15:05 bbertie: but anyway, if web-dev takes a string, it could expand into `(progn (defpackage ,string ...) ...) 18:15:05 well i do like to think that me doing games with blocky has occasionally helped others test their libraries :) 18:15:06 hey dto i am a big fun of smalltalk and i was looking for a visual programming enviroment for lisp 18:15:23 bbertie: as long as the case is appropriate (if it isn't, you can always convert) 18:15:36 -!- saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:15:50 bbertie: how would you refer to your package later, though? 18:15:58 bbertie: You might also want to look at Xach's quickproject, which sets up the usual stuff for getting a project started. 18:16:19 dto: how exactly i install and use it is there a link or something to help through ? 18:16:22 bbertie: Not sure if it's where you're going with dynamically creating packages, or whatever. 18:17:12 quoting sykopomp: "kilon: blocky.io is the result of several years of work by various people." <- that implies a lot more than 'standing on the shoulders of giants', it makes it more sound like as if blocky was written by others and dto merely picked up the torch to continue/complete it 18:18:35 kilon: i need to put out a build of the GUI stuff---if you build from source now things might not work. but i can put one out soon. 18:18:42 eMBee: But you're pulling it out of context (like I did as a joke) 18:18:54 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:10 bbertie_ [803e3e6d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.62.62.109] has joined #lisp 18:19:11 -!- bbertie [803e3e6d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.62.62.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:11 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:36 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:38 sellout: not really. even in the context it had me thinking that. 18:20:01 because he also says later that dto had little left to do 18:20:26 dto: ah ok, if you can make a macos build or show me how i will like to try it 18:20:36 -!- megamind [~Nevermind@113.190.234.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:20:53 eMBee: And it's supposed to make you think that, setting you up for the "even above the basic lisp layer, there's all the CFFI stuff, the various libraries http://blocky.io/ uses (such as lb-sdl, cl-opengl, etc) http://blocky.io/ stands pretty small on top of all that work by all those different people." of his next statement 18:21:36 Xach: I was just opening the REPL and importing libraries and creating packages over and over again when I was trying out parenscript, so I thought I'd automate it. 18:22:06 i mean my hope is that any interest it generates would generally rebound to the lisp community itself and the dependencies too, because i can imagine a lot of projects that would benefit from Lisp and cl-opengl and lispbuilder and the whole basket of quicklisp, but probably a lot of projects wouldn't need Blocky itself, or might find the non-clos nature distasteful, 18:22:27 someone could still use it as an example of how to do certain things in opengl 18:22:29 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.181.27] has joined #lisp 18:22:34 sellout: sure, i am just elaborating what the statement made me thing 18:22:39 lipbuilder has been disaster for me on Lion :( 18:22:39 bbertie_: oh, i see. i always work with files & systems for that kind of thing. 18:22:41 i.e. or whichever libraries , cl-fad etc 18:22:54 kilon: i'll get back to you. 18:23:27 Xach: I thought these packages could work like scratch paper, because I'm not comfortable enough yet to try implementing anything. Is defining a package necessary for using libraries? 18:23:28 running the lispbuilder examples created all sort of crashed and weird behavior 18:24:03 dto: nice , i am alway here and #lispgames 18:24:26 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-216.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 18:25:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:26:15 Xach: nevermind that question. thanks for all your help! 18:26:32 -!- bbertie_ [803e3e6d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.62.62.109] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:27:16 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:27 aie 18:27:28 dto: i messed the question you had yesterday about my comment. i was refering to visualizing in my mind how using the plaintext api would be like 18:27:34 missed 18:27:46 *Xach* recently pondered the feasibility of defining systems independently of .asd files and asdf:defsystem forms 18:27:53 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:28:50 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:30:17 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-129-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:21 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:31:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:31:13 Xach: have a look at make-depends in com.informatimago.common-lisp.tools 18:31:37 No thank you. 18:32:53 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:53 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:33:25 Xach: that just answers your pondering: it's definitely feasible to define systems just looking at the source files! 18:33:33 Duh! 18:33:53 eMBee: did you want to see a source example 18:34:16 pjb: Plenty of things might work if you are willing to enter into a self-contained universe with a population of one (yourself) 18:34:53 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 18:35:51 mathrick [~mathrick@176.20.6.28] has joined #lisp 18:36:02 Xach: the only self constRained thing I do, is to declare the packages also used. For 99.999% of the cases, it would be enough to read the source file for qualified symbols. You could go 99.999999% if you'd also check for some function calls such as INTERN. 18:36:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:37:10 In anycase, it wouldn't worse than ill-written asd files. 18:38:44 -!- Froward [~PANZERKON@206.231.99.110] has quit [Quit: butts] 18:40:05 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.200.233] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:40:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:52 eMBee: the video looks great , i see alot of potential 18:41:27 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:29 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:41:34 dto: if you have one i'll take a look, but i am already satisfied for now, so no need to make an effort 18:41:40 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:41:53 kilon: redirect comment to dto :-) 18:42:33 dto: the video looks phenomenal, i am very interested on how this projects goes 18:44:18 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 18:44:28 kilon: there's another video: https://github.com/downloads/dto/blocky/blocky-lightning-talk-3-edit.mp4 <---- or ogv if you prefer 18:44:36 kilon: i'll keep you all updated :) 18:45:14 no i like mp4 18:45:19 eMBee: pasting a url isn't really effort :) https://raw.github.com/dto/xalcyon.blocky/master/xalcyon.lisp 18:45:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:45:35 great thanks, as i said i am a huge fan of visual programming 18:46:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:48:08 cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.65] has joined #lisp 18:48:51 well i hope i'll be able to contribute my own unique spin on it 18:49:36 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:12 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-048-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:29 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-255-62.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:50:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:52:47 cabaire [~nobody@p54940B1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:53:06 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:54:18 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:48 kilon, Xach here are the macros ive been developing for blocky. it's a bit rough, but http://i.imgur.com/OBiOr.png 18:56:00 dto: watched the video, xalcyon looks very funky :D love interface 18:56:01 what sorts of things would prevent sb-thread:terminate-thread from working on a sleeping thread (ie the thread is still RUNNING after that call). Inside the the parent and child thread sb-sys::*interrupts-enabled* is T 18:56:06 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 18:56:08 kilon: :) 18:56:11 so is blocky game orientated only ? 18:56:12 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:32 kilon: nope, multimedia in general, i want to be able to wrap any lisp functionality/library with visual blocks. 18:56:33 brb. 18:56:41 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:41 perfect 18:56:45 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-43.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:56:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 18:56:58 dto: cool 18:57:44 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 18:58:31 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 18:59:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:03:49 -!- arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-37-75.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:04:55 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 19:05:13 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:43 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384139.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:28 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:07:01 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384139.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:07:03 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:08:27 -!- Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: Life without danger is a waste of oxygen] 19:09:57 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.101.15] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:11:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:12:21 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:29 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:12:33 I'm implementing a 'sniffer' that sits between a client and a server using iolib 19:12:48 so I have two sockets, and anything that's read on one I want to be written to the other 19:12:49 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 19:12:57 but I also want to read everything independently of that 19:13:10 is there some magical way to connect them, or do I just have to write everything I read? 19:13:35 -!- ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:14:44 -!- Xof_ [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:14:57 you could sniff at a lower level, using libpcap for example 19:15:49 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081EC27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-190.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:55 the sniffing I'm doing would be a fair bit more difficult if I didn't have a nice CL stream to do it on 19:16:34 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:16:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:47 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:16:55 then afaik you had to manually write everything you read 19:17:25 ok, thanks 19:17:27 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:17:28 Xof_ [~crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 I guess it's easy enough to replace calls to read-sequence with calls to a custom function 19:18:21 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 19:18:41 or you could implement gray-streams methods and keep the read-sequence calls. 19:18:42 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 19:18:51 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 19:19:20 ah 19:19:25 so something like a spied-on-stream class? 19:19:46 http://www.nhplace.com/kent/CL/Issues/stream-definition-by-user.html trivial-gray-streams makes it cross-implementation. 19:21:36 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22:06 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Gray-Streams.html is probably a better reference, actually 19:22:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:22:49 thanks 19:26:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:25 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:27:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:29:30 -!- espadrine [~thaddee_t@AMontsouris-157-1-121-253.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:29:51 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:30:08 ISF [~ivan@187.106.53.231] has joined #lisp 19:30:41 compj [~compj@p54BF5C42.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:05 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:33:10 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:34:21 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:36:24 rwiker [~rwiker@233.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:38:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.136.192] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 19:38:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:40:04 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:52 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@pC19F6AEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 19:42:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:43:12 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:43:39 Is anyone aware of a CL layer for the dropbox API? 19:43:58 fezghoul [~user@li221-11.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:40 mon_key: i think there is something in quicklisp? but not sure 19:44:55 https://github.com/jsmpereira/cl-dropbox mon_key 19:44:55 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:23 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 19:45:32 worst thing is i'm already _watching_ it (: 19:45:33 that is in quicklisp 19:46:04 dto: Xach: thanks 19:47:32 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:48:31 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:51:20 -!- cbp` [~user@187.193.216.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:51:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:52:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:53:27 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 19:53:38 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-048-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:53:46 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:53:46 -!- ura [~ura@unaffiliated/ura] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:31 mon_key: for future reference: ql:system-apropos 19:55:16 -!- neena [neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:55:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-43.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:40 Ralith: thanks. 19:56:13 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:39 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 19:58:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:03:32 I found that calling the c (foreign) function "mysql_init" prevents sb-thread:terminate-thread from working on a sleeping thread (ie the thread is still RUNNING after that call). Any idea why that would be the case or how to resolve it? 20:03:40 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:04:04 bobbysmith007: does that function block signals? 20:04:49 *easye* goes eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 20:05:15 looking at the docs: "MySQL blocks SIGPIPE on the first call to mysql_init" 20:05:24 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:33 pkhuong: so yes I guess... 20:06:49 bobbysmith007: we use sigpipe for interrupt-thread, which is how terminate-thread works. 20:08:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:03 just saying: if you're tempted to use handler-case around a read function to catch end-of-file and you care about performance, think again. 20:08:32 *H4ns* does not do that and saw a nice 15% speedup in a program written by someone who thought it did not matter. 20:08:48 ouch. Tiny reads? 20:08:55 character reads 20:08:58 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:09:18 thanks pkhuong, certainly sheds light on the situation. It sounds like that means that I need to fix the clsql mysql client to somehow allow that to go through I guess. 20:09:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:11 bobbysmith007: block/unblock sigpipe around foreign calls, I guess. 20:10:21 not sure why it blocks sigpipe, though. 20:10:28 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: (make-condition 'dtw:sleep)] 20:10:29 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:33 might be an idea to use some otehr mechanism to terminate other threads? 20:11:44 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.98.159] has joined #lisp 20:12:02 pkhuong: there is some handwaving about it : http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/threaded-clients.html 20:12:23 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:24 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:12:46 rwiker: terminate thread isn't a good idea in development, true, but it tends to be useful during development. 20:13:31 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:13:33 well, my take on it is that a tidy mechanism for terminating threads should be part of a multithread architecture :-) 20:14:05 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:14:20 pkhuong: two questions, 1: why isnt terminate thread a good idea? (we are concerned that occasionally job threads runaway and we would rather save the processor cycles till someone can fix the underlying issue by killing the job thread. 2:Is there an easy way to reinstate the sbcl sigpipe handler if it has been disabled? 20:14:23 rwiker: yes, as part of the software, not the runtime library. 20:14:35 ura [~ura@unaffiliated/ura] has joined #lisp 20:14:47 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:14:58 bobbysmith007: terminate thread kills a thread at a random point (e.g. while holding a lock). That tends to break invariants. 20:15:27 pkhuong: this also seems to be interfering with deadlines expiring 20:15:35 -!- frkout [~frkout@p24125-ipngn401akatuka.ibaraki.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:52 pkhuong: does unwind-protect still run when a thread has been killed? 20:15:53 and, hopefully, mysql only masks the signal handler, rather than removing it. 20:16:11 sykopomp: if you're not unlucky, iirc. 20:16:11 in sbcl, I mean. 20:17:54 a thread is not a process, and one cannot expect "the system" to perform resource management for threads. as such, it is up to the application to make sure that any resources that the thread held are being freed. a language runtime may certainly implement a (resource managed) process abstraction on top of threads, but i don't think sbcl really does. 20:18:30 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:21 ehu [~ehuels@mk089144206213.a1.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:23:00 pkhuong: is there a way to de-mask the signal handler? (thanks for the help btw) 20:23:52 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:24:12 bobbysmith007: ok. So the docs says that it's ok to install our own handler. You can use sigaction to grab the current handler, initialize mysql, and sigaction again to reinstate it, I think. 20:24:24 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:24:55 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-224-200.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:17 awesome, sounds good 20:26:20 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:01 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-239-110.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:27:02 don't forget to mysql_thread_end. 20:27:15 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:27:28 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:45 You probably want something like with-mysql-context (who does that? :) 20:28:28 frkout [~frkout@p24125-ipngn401akatuka.ibaraki.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:28:52 pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.217] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:30:45 pkhuong: hah! mysql_thread_end does not currently exist in the client lib... so yeah i guess that currently leaks 20:31:45 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@p5081EC27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:09 -!- pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.217] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:33:54 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:02 -!- gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:34:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:35:27 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 20:35:37 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-2457e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:38:26 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:30 can I ask abcl-specific question here? 20:39:39 may* 20:39:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:39:55 asvil: sure 20:40:02 I don't think anyone will bite your head off. 20:40:09 asvil: the mailing list might have a quicker response if abcl hackers are not here. 20:40:11 Sure, but you may get a better answer on a more specific chat group. 20:40:18 Though I could be wrong. 20:41:08 *Guthur* sharpens his teeth 20:41:30 -!- yesimnathan [~nathan@li319-200.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 20:41:36 only kidding, I wouldn't file my teeth 20:42:53 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.22] has joined #lisp 20:43:03 I have the error "can not intern zero-length symbol", when loading maxima sources. 20:43:20 How can I see where it occurs? 20:44:10 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:15 I mean not only file, but line of code. 20:44:52 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-097-177.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:44:56 *Xach* wonders where that message comes from, as a zero-length symbol is no big deal 20:45:06 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:47:33 asvil: some of them are on #abcl atm 20:47:43 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:47 *easye* thinks that abcl-1.x has problems with a zero-length symbol. 20:48:59 Naturally, we should solve that in the implementation. 20:49:17 that error was once fixed in 0.12 or 0.12 or something 20:49:24 *easye* assumes that ANSI allows the existence of the zero length symbol. 20:49:32 We can whack a mole again. 20:49:36 :|| 20:49:40 Right. 20:49:43 great emoticon, too 20:49:43 It should exist. 20:49:47 mhi^ [~mhi@home.zedat.fu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:50 how does a symbol actually have zero length 20:49:51 *easye* chuckles. 20:49:51 When I do that in abcl it works for me. 20:49:52 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:49:53 True dat. 20:49:55 "extreme meh" 20:50:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:50:37 the error is when it hits one creation API vs another in ABCL 20:50:46 Ah, :|| works fine in abcl, but '|| fails. 20:51:17 oh .. hehe 20:51:21 reb`: seems to work in abcl-1.1-dev 20:51:58 ok good chance for me to ask thi9s long standing question.. 20:52:02 easye: OK ... I'm running version 1.1.0-dev 20:52:06 or i can ask the repl 20:52:43 -!- howeyc [~howeyc@2607:f2f8:a958::2] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:53:36 [2]> (type-of :||:) 20:53:36 KEYWORD 20:53:49 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 20:54:07 that is an interesting result to me 20:54:19 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:19 i would expect an error 20:54:29 shouldn't taht give non-existent pacakge? 20:54:33 the last ";" is ignored? 20:54:39 the last "" is ignored? 20:54:42 oops 20:54:47 dmiles_afk: it isn't 20:54:51 or "shouldn't that be expected to give ?" :-) 20:55:22 well, I shouldn't say anything before upgrading abcl 20:55:27 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 20:57:47 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:54 -!- knob [~knob@genesis.ballesterhermanos.com] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 20:59:43 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has left #lisp 21:00:23 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 21:00:31 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:02:19 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-248-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:56 howeyc [~howeyc@2607:f2f8:a958::2] has joined #lisp 21:04:31 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:45 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:09:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.135.22] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 21:09:58 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:10:36 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:11:27 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@233.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:01 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:12:43 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:22 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:15:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:15:37 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:57 unfortunatly, I lost chat history, where can I download abcl 1.1? 21:18:13 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-89-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:19:19 I changed '|| to :||, but now some maxima tests are failed. 21:19:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:40 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.54] has joined #lisp 21:20:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:23:12 asvil: '|| and :|| are not equivalent 21:23:53 one is a zero length keyword symbol 21:25:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:26:36 yes I know, I hope that all will be fine:) But it is not fine. 21:27:03 Reading sequential 8-bit bytes from a specialized byte array, then shifting and ORing the bytes to create a 32 or 64 bit unsigned long should be slower than just doing an unaligned longword read in assembly code. Does SBCL have any build-in unaligned word reading function? 21:27:09 Harag [~phil@wbs-196-2-121-101.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:27:22 s/build-in/built-in 21:28:12 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:37 mgraham [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:31:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:32:31 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:33:58 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128091118.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 21:35:25 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-129-253.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 21:35:44 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-134-200.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:37:04 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.181.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:40:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@mk089144206213.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:40:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:27 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:43:21 benny [~benny@i577A8627.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:43:40 -!- Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@p5081EC27.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:43 reb`: sb-kernel:%vector-raw-bits 21:44:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:10 -!- compj [~compj@p54BF5C42.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: compj] 21:45:21 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:30 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:47:28 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-151-48.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47:45 elrzn [~elrzn@129.218.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:48:56 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081EC27.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:07 ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:29 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p54940B1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:54:05 dpierce [~dpierce@pool-108-33-15-110.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:30 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:56 pkhuong: Thanks ... I'll experiment with it. 21:56:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 21:59:53 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Quit: decaf] 22:00:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:01:37 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:48 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:01:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:05:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:08:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:08:37 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 22:08:57 pkhuong: sb-kernel:%vector-raw-bits fetches aligned 32-bit words. Is there a primitive that fetches unaligned 32-bit values? 22:08:59 -!- naeg_ [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:13 reb`: you have to go throuh the FFI for that. 22:09:21 not all platforms support it (: 22:09:22 OK, maybe I don't even need that. 22:09:29 yup! 22:09:57 All my SBCL octet vectors will be aligned anyway, I suppose. 22:10:09 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:10:16 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:16 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:10:16 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 22:10:52 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:01 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:12:10 -!- lakkris [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:12:38 LucasCampos [~lucas@186.212.159.239] has joined #lisp 22:15:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:17 -!- yog [~yog@122.172.213.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:17:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:19:05 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:33 Ashii [~Ashii@c-2457e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:21:32 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:22:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:22:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:15 -!- mgraham [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:57 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:31 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:34 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:27:13 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:27:42 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 22:28:50 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db59b3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:11 saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 22:30:24 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 22:31:50 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:32:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has joined #lisp 22:34:53 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.65.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:36:51 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177091128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:50 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:07 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:38:40 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:46 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:42:20 -!- fezghoul [~user@li221-11.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:43:13 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 22:45:18 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 ghoti- [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 22:48:07 rpg_ [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 22:49:27 DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.89.154] has joined #lisp 22:49:48 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:51:35 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:32 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:53:48 good 22:55:12 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:26 -!- elrzn [~elrzn@129.218.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 22:55:56 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 23:01:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:30 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384139.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:33 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:03:43 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:33 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:11:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-250-113-190.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:55 Xach: there are several people, which wants to see (not to use yet) embeddable-maxima in quicklisp. I can merge embeddable-maxima code with original maxima code every time, when it is needed. May I reopen github issue? 23:15:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 23:18:46 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:30 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:37 see but not use? 23:20:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-98-250-113-190.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:21:08 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:25 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:21:31 -!- k1o [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:14 -!- ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:22:46 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl5-19-52.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 23:23:58 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:13 kai_ [~kai@e177091128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:24:32 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:25:42 not to use _yet_:) I find that abcl developers tests abcl by maxima, and embeddable-maxima will be usefull for they. 23:26:54 -!- dpierce [~dpierce@pool-108-33-15-110.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long, and thanks for all the fish!] 23:26:55 today big amount of maxima tests fail on abcl 23:27:19 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:34 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:31:57 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 23:32:15 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:32:49 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:19 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 23:35:19 k1o [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:35:59 ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:36:31 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177091128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:16 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-165.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:15 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:30 Xach: I need to go, I will ask you later about embeddable-maxima. 23:45:30 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:45:46 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:46:48 daniel__ [~daniel@p508295E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:04 |3b|` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:01 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:04 literal_ [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 23:48:04 guaqua_ [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 23:48:05 pkhuong_ [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has 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[Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:05 ok, there is a problem with common-lisp.net cvs 23:58:43 cvs [export aborted]: unrecognized auth response from common-lisp.net: cvs pserver: /project/adw-charting/cvsroot/CVSROOT/config [14]: warning: duplicate LogHistory entry found 23:58:52 i get that when trying to "cvs export" anything