00:00:01 what is warns you about is that package now has (:export foo), but used to have (:export :foo :bar) and simply removing :bar from there does not cut it, its still exported.. 00:00:30 Hmm, I'm starting to see why the Racket people prefer restarting the REPL I think 00:00:44 Although I guess that's still the big reason I'm still looking at CL 00:00:45 *maxm-* has it on his todo list to wirte defpackage wrapper that automatically unexports anything that is not in (:export) since forever, never got around to it 00:00:48 Sgeo, you've been told thousand and thousands of times not to exaggerate... ;-) 00:01:13 Sgeo, seriously: in practice it isn't a problem, is it? 00:01:26 I guess I don't really know 00:01:34 I don't have any CL experience to speak of 00:01:43 Sgeo: its kind of tough, but there is survival of the fittest, and its getting better 00:02:33 Sgeo: good libraries are becoming defacto standards, ie cl-ppcre for regular expressions, alexandria for general useful stuff, bordeaux-threads for generic threading wrapper 00:02:55 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:03:12 Sgeo, I haven't come across any library code yet that suffers from the problem of cryptic macros. not to say there aren't any. 00:03:18 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-158-47.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:48 I guess at least for short lambdas, it doesn't make a difference if some code uses #L and some uses other mechanisms 00:03:55 *maxm-* had more troubles with cryptic macros in elisp to be honest 00:04:04 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-178-78.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:04 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 00:04:05 Can reader macros start with things other than #? 00:04:13 Of course. 00:04:15 Sgeo: Yep. 00:04:30 mostly because with slime C-c C-m is a godsend, and really easy to see what macro does 00:04:37 Sgeo: apart from reading symbols, integers and floating point numbers, everything in CL is read with reader macros! 00:05:20 C-c C-m? 00:05:24 Sgeo: yes, technically a perverted person can make a reader macro for every character in a code set, and implement their own reader that does not have parenthesis or does other perverted things 00:05:28 Sgeo: (loop for i from 32 to 127 when (get-macro-character (code-char i)) collect (code-char i)) 00:06:14 That loop makes me vaguely think of list comprehensions 00:06:33 also if you going to be screwing with reader macros, using :named-readtables package is a good idea 00:06:44 => (#\" #\# #\' #\( #\) #\, #\; #\`) 00:06:53 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:06 maxm-: OK, it seems to have vanished when I tried to recompile. I'm not sure how it previously saw a different export list, nothing in the export list changed. 00:08:22 *Sgeo* wants Maybes in CL 00:08:31 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 00:09:01 (if (just nil) 'just-nil-is-true 'just-nil-is-false) => true 00:09:05 erm 00:09:10 'just-nil-is-true 00:09:21 Sgeo: why would you want to do that? 00:09:42 groovy2shoes, no ambiguity when trying to retrieve values from something 00:09:42 What's the definition of JUST? 00:09:54 pjb, just ... shoves it in a container, which can be read from 00:09:59 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:10:18 Have some generic functions defined on that container and on nil 00:10:44 Sgeo: a container is always true. 00:11:08 Sgeo: but you can define your own IF and COND that will unwrap your containers. 00:11:38 *Sgeo* just wants something similar to Haskell's Maybe type 00:11:44 And for such things to be pervasive >.> 00:11:46 Sgeo: you can define your own IF and COND that will unwrap your containers. 00:13:54 "Cannot grow stack any larger -- exiting"  is that a restriction of free ACL, or is that a stack overflow? 00:14:28 AFAIK it doesn't have a restriction on the stack size. 00:14:44 -!- ikarus_ [~ikarus_@93-138-105-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:15:23 pjb: Yeah, I couldn't find anything about one, but I can't see what would be blowing it up. 00:15:27 sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 00:17:50 -!- rme [rme@13FF0A92.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:17:50 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:18:08 how would i save a list or hash table to a file and then later read it back? 00:20:54 (setf (sexp-file-contents "file" :if-does-not-exist :create :if-exists :supersede) your-data) 00:20:58 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:21:00 com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:sexp-file-contents 00:21:30 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:29 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:20 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 00:25:27 what is com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file ? 00:26:01 sezo: It's a package / system  you can install it with quicklisp. 00:26:03 What does #. do? 00:26:31 reader macro, it executes code at read time 00:27:16 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:41 sezo: anything that goes before : in x:y is the name of a package. 00:27:51 (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp) will give it to you. 00:28:50 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.12] has joined #lisp 00:29:04 so that's a serialization library? I kind of wanted to do it on my own. but i'll save its name for future 00:29:21 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:30:18 sezo: it just use PRINT and READ! 00:30:35 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-1-226.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:31:08 Is the ability to detect circular structures that useful >.> 00:31:45 Is the ability to add two numbers that useful? 00:31:46 (Haskell doesn't .. really have that. It has circular structures, but as far as I'm aware they're impossible to distinguish from infinite structures) 00:32:05 Sgeo: stop asking dumb questions, start programming! 00:32:23 sometimes you want to print circular structure 00:32:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:10 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.12] has joined #lisp 00:34:37 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:35:37 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 00:36:54 What's better - Land of Lisp or PCL? LoL seems fun, but quite basic. I know elisp and a little bit of CL. 00:37:39 do you have any other pgoramming background? 00:37:51 urandom__ [~user@p548A5D06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:52 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 00:39:15 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:02 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:25 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 00:42:48 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:43:50 Ralith: doesn't it feel great when you're trying to help people and they don't respond? 00:44:32 madnificent: I don't really put a lot of energy into that sort of effort until there's been a certain amount of back-and-forth collateral, so it's not that big a deal. 00:44:43 it might also help if I actually said dronf's name. 00:45:30 Sorry, was afk. :-( 00:46:13 Ralith: I have no CS education 00:46:20 Ralith: and by that, the conversation starts again :) 00:46:47 I know some other languages, mainly C, have done some programming 00:47:02 dronf: then PCL is probably not inappropriate. 00:47:21 I understand that LoL is more an 'intro to programming (and lisp)' sort of thing 00:47:34 I see. Thank you. 00:47:37 *madnificent* hasn't read LoL but has heard similar 00:50:50 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@p4FF5F707.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:36 The use of compliment bothers me 00:53:41 Haskellers call that (not .) 00:55:52 sezo: serialisation 00:56:05 oh never mind, was scrolled up. 00:56:17 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:56 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 00:58:27 *rtoym* likes getting compliments. 00:59:15 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@p4FF5F707.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:10 Anyone familiar with cffi and loading foreign libraries on ccl? 01:00:23 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:43 (defun compliment (f) (alexandria:compose #'not f) 01:00:43 -!- sezo [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 01:00:47 ) 01:00:54 *Sgeo* shrugs 01:01:01 Wait, that doesn't work 01:01:19 Sgeo: Why not just use complement? It's even in ANSI CL! 01:01:59 rtoym, because the fact that it's in the standard seems to indicate to me that what should be straightforward composition isn't so straightforward. 01:02:58 Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. 01:03:18 (defun complement. (f) (lambda (x) (not (funcall f x)))) what more straighforward? 01:03:33 complement = (not .) 01:03:35 -!- kai_ [~kai@f052098164.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:40 Much more straightforward to me 01:03:46 (defun complement. (f) (lambda (&rest x) (not (apply f x)))) actually. 01:04:00 I don't know Haskell, so I don't know what that means. 01:04:10 . is compose in Haskell 01:04:30 (not .) is a section that, when given an argument, sort of fills in the other side 01:04:34 So (not .) f is not . f 01:04:40 Sgeo: common lisp is useful, not minimal. 01:07:54 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:08:44 *quazimodo* is so happy lisp has an easy qt binding :D 01:09:12 kai_ [~kai@e177089139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:09:18 Let's do the qt 4 dance! 01:10:04 thats absurd! 01:10:46 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-108.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:52 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 01:13:08 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 01:13:13 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-8.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:16:16 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:40 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 01:17:21 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:36 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 01:18:53 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:25:29 cwardell [~cwardell@ool-4351ef1e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:42 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:05 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:27:15 I'm createing a binding to the Bullet Library and I have an odd issue with C++ deletes. In some cases, at cleanup, I get a error that my object is corrupted or doublly freed. Is there anything special I need to know about C++ bindings? 01:27:21 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:45 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 01:31:39 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 01:33:02 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:33:31 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 01:33:40 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:33:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:55 Perhaps you're using finalizers poorly? 01:37:19 Zhivago: Actually, I'm using a wrapper dll to move things from c++ to C from which I can use the wrappers. They are a simple new/delete calls, as far as I can tell. And it's not just one object. I have multiple. I'm certain the library works, in haskell. 01:37:40 Are you using finalizers? 01:37:53 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:37:59 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-145-166.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:59 Zhivago: You mean like trivial-garbage? no. 01:37:59 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:22 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 01:38:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@216.99.52.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:36 WarWeasle: are you sure you're using delete right? 01:39:05 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:06 pkhuong: I've repurposed Haskell's lambdaCube bindings. 01:39:49 I'm calling the same pointer, and I'm calling it as the same type. 01:39:51 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 01:40:05 that doesn't answer the question. 01:40:32 pkhuong: How do you mean? 01:40:54 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:07 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-108.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:41:10 Is it morally acceptable for a setf to send data over a network? 01:41:19 Either way... You might want to keep a trace of the addresses you allocate and release; that'll help you know for sure if your code is doing double frees, or it's just regular heap corruption. 01:41:55 pkhuong: Is there a built in tool for that? 01:41:57 Kron_ [~Kron@216.99.52.253] has joined #lisp 01:42:30 format? 01:43:00 pkhuong: ok. I didn't know if there was a low level debugging to for watches and the like. 01:43:00 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:03 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:43:31 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 01:44:08 Thanks for your help. That rules out any required special knowledge anyhow. 01:45:36 Hard to tell without code. 01:45:39 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-99-87.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:46 pkhuong: And there is a lot of it. 01:45:56 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 01:45:58 Sgeo: Sure, why not? 01:46:32 I have some ideas that some things are and are not acceptable 01:46:42 I want to avoid severe abuses of the language 01:47:26 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:14 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:49 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 01:50:20 The question should be: is it acceptable for setf to fail unpredictably? 01:51:36 And the answer is: If you're using threads, then it probably already does. 01:51:56 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-204-168-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:21 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-204-168-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:15 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812119.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:59 Sgeo: (setf (sexp-file-contents "file" :if-does-not-exist :create :if-exists :supersede) your-data) may send the data over the network, if "file" is on a NFS server. 01:57:26 For my own library, I'm more thinking 01:57:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:57:52 (setf (get-object-in-world *the-object-id*) new-object) 02:03:20 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177089139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:03:27 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:55 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 02:05:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:05 kai_ [~kai@e177090113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:09:48 Are there any guidelines for ordering of arguments? 02:09:55 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:57 Are things like alexandria:curry used often enough to care? 02:11:48 Sgeo: you can grep the lisp libraries. 02:12:13 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:38 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 02:12:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:15:17 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 02:15:40 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DA6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:17:30 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-59-208.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 02:17:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-59-208.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 02:17:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:19:29 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:59 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.33.24] has joined #lisp 02:20:41 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:21:54 I vaguely think that I'd like a Clojure that was not tied to the JVM 02:22:30 It's called Common Lisp. 02:24:36 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:25:42 The problem is that Common Lisp is tied to Common Lisp. 02:26:13 Zhivago, I doubt people here view that as an issue... 02:27:54 Data: The basic problem of patriotism ... 02:27:55 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:14 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:53 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:54 Clojure is tied to the java api ecology, which is the more intractable issue (and feature). 02:29:52 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:30:02 CL is tied to the CL ecology, likewise. 02:30:02 Why does Land of Lisp talk about defstruct? 02:30:15 Why shouldn't it? 02:30:16 I was under the impression that defstruct is not generally preferred 02:30:31 defstruct is simple and straight-forward. 02:30:37 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 02:31:28 structures are generally preferred when you need structures 02:31:59 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:02 I'd probably introduce defstruct before clos. 02:32:18 It would give you a simple start, which you could then elaborate upon with generic functions. 02:32:28 Zhivago: defstruct and interactive development don't mix very well. 02:32:33 And then show how this maps to standard classes. 02:32:49 and i wouldn't say that defstruct is simple, it has so many options 02:33:00 You don't need to deal with them. 02:33:15 Just show the basics, introduce generics, and then work your way up. 02:33:35 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:33:36 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 02:33:36 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:33:47 defstruct has the advantage of 'getting trivial stuff done trivially' 02:33:57 (defstruct point x y) ; there you go. 02:34:20 Now you can write some generic-functions to do vector stuff. 02:34:54 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 02:34:57 Then you can show how (defstruct point x y) maps to defclass. 02:35:22 Are there any seemingly useful functions that people should generally avoid? 02:35:29 The way head is derided in Haskell? 02:35:38 Sgeo: No. 02:35:49 head is derided in Haskell? 02:35:49 -!- rme [rme@13FF0A92.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:35:49 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:35:54 Sgeo: If it seems useful, use it; if it proves otherwise, it should stop seeming that way. 02:35:57 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:04 Ralith, because it errors when the list is empty 02:36:09 Instead of giving Nothing 02:36:16 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 02:36:16 ew 02:36:21 oh, yes 02:39:39 vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-255-015.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 02:40:16 Sgeo: destructive functions. 02:40:45 (list (car nil) (cdr nil)) => (NIL NIL) 02:40:46 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:41:09 pjb, wait, what's wrong with that example? 02:41:21 car is not like head. 02:41:27 AH 02:41:29 *Ah 02:41:31 don't listen to pjb, destructive functions are good 02:42:17 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:59 That's why CL is a procedural language. :) 02:43:49 and that's why i like it 02:44:28 Zhivago, stassats: hardly. it's multi-paradigm. 02:44:28 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:44:28 I like javascript's approach to the problem -- it is an algorithmic language. 02:45:10 *Sgeo* likes Haskell 02:45:27 The problem with functional systems is that they don't scale :( 02:45:41 hm? 02:45:53 that's the opposite of what the functional people say 02:46:34 That's because they haven't consider incoherent failure semantics. 02:46:46 Imagine that half of your system is on A, and half is on B. 02:46:53 Now B fails without A failing. 02:47:26 The problem is that as soon as you distribute across systems you are engaged in an external system of time that imposes state changes. 02:47:44 If you stick to a system where everything must fail simultaneously, then it's ok. 02:48:40 So, I don't see a functional future for computing. 02:49:01 Probably islands of functionality bridged with procedural glue. 02:49:04 Could the systems localized to one computer be... 02:49:06 Right 02:49:08 (Which is how CL works) 02:49:23 Each function in CL is subject to static analysis. 02:50:03 Zhivago, you do realize that Haskell has parts that are not functional-style? (Although still purely functional) 02:50:35 Well, hm 02:50:48 Sgeo: It doesn't matter. 02:51:06 Anyhow, that's why I like javascript's compromise on algorithmic computation. 02:51:32 It uses procedures, but they operate in a static environment. 02:52:26 Ansik [~user@124.116.210.237] has joined #lisp 02:52:56 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:27 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-1-226.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:10 Zhivago: what we've done is separate think from act. Thinking is pure functional, acting performs its side effects only on specific boundaries outside the thinking process. It actually works quite well 02:59:03 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.33.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:24 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 03:00:26 Phoodus: Misses the point, unfortunately. 03:00:48 Phoodus: How does it work across multiple systems? 03:01:21 [SLB] [~slabua@host19-165-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:01:21 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host19-165-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 03:01:21 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 03:01:23 Phoodus: yeah, you and your silly working system. 03:01:46 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:47 hypercube32 [~hypercube@246.111.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:55 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:01 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 03:06:55 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 03:07:44 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:26 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 03:10:52 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 03:11:16 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 03:11:32 [SLB] [~slabua@host19-165-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 03:11:32 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host19-165-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 03:11:32 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 03:13:37 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177090113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:57 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:27 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:03 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 03:17:02 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:17:31 -!- _pw_ [~user@123.112.69.199] has left #lisp 03:18:11 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.41] has joined #lisp 03:22:41 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:02 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 03:23:42 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: It is now safe to turn off your groovebot.] 03:24:12 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:29:36 Zhivago: the thinking process, being pure functional, is restartable on partial failure 03:30:04 it's just the action phase that requires various optional levels of transactional integrity 03:30:21 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:31:26 and since the entire program isn't just 1 long chain of pure functional calls, but phases of thinking between action, the restart granularity isn't too large 03:32:47 Phoodus: Right -- you're stuck in a model of coherent failure. 03:33:58 that's actually only per-KB 03:34:02 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:19 (knowledge base, if that's not obvious, not kilobyte) 03:34:27 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:39 each KB is independent, and asynchronously messages or queries others 03:34:50 multiple KBs make 1 application, multiple applications run on the server 03:34:59 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 03:35:25 And that's where your functional programming has run out -- at the KB. 03:35:26 but the fact of the matter is, when something goes wrong that doesn't have a specific handler, you've got to stop somewhere if you want a reliable systm 03:36:13 yes, I'm not advocating full-functional programming, just that it's useful for thinking, not for action. It must be combined with side effects at some point, and having a hard distinction instead of trying to mix them seems to work well for u 03:36:22 us 03:36:46 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5D06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:27 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:02 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 03:40:23 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:41:41 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:43:19 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:45 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:48:07 Ok, so guessing what loop is like is a bad idea 03:49:28 Uh 03:49:32 Is paste.lisp.org working? 03:49:58 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:49:59 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fjlknnsbzgsfutbp] has joined #lisp 03:50:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127867 03:50:38 complained about the datatype of y, I think 03:50:46 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:51:11 Hmm, (list x y) works 03:51:31 (cons x y) 03:51:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 03:51:57 What was wrong with (x . y)? 03:51:59 after collect is an evaluated expression, so (x . y) tries to make a functional call on x, with a dotted parameter list, which is of course broken 03:52:12 Ah 03:52:15 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 03:52:22 (let ((x 1) (y 1)) (x . y) 03:52:23 ) 03:53:15 Ok, I see 03:53:24 `(,x . ,y) would work if you _really_ want to stay shape-centric 03:53:29 Loop is controversial, though? 03:53:36 Sgeo: no 03:53:53 nah, it's just effectively another sub-language/DSL to learn 03:53:55 Sgeo: everything is controversial. 03:54:13 if by "controversial" you mean "someone has written an angry blog post about it" 03:54:24 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 03:54:34 I just used tail-recursive labels recursion for a long time before finally getting around to learning loop 03:55:09 loop really helps a lot of simple cases be syntactically small, then you can grow from there 03:55:31 The form of loop I played with reminds me of list comprehensions 03:55:35 I like list comprehensions 03:55:45 Although Haskell's do notation is more general than that 03:56:09 (And do notation on lists is ... close to list comprehensions) 03:56:23 is there a parallel list-walker in loop? ie, x in '(1 2 3), y in '(4 5 6), where it'd only do 3 iterations 03:56:52 *Sgeo* notes the lack of a zip function 03:57:06 Of course, it might be called something else, or found in loop somewhere 03:57:08 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:57:23 dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 03:57:25 mapc/mapcar/etc do list zipping 03:57:40 but of course that's not as general as loop 03:57:51 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:48 (mapcar 'list '(1 2 3) '(a b c)) => ((1 A) (2 B) (3 C)) 03:58:54 Clojure is supposedly lazy? 03:59:18 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@239-85-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:38 (apply 'mapcar 'list '((1 A) (2 B) (3 C))) => ((1 2 3) (A B C)) 03:59:38 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.40] has joined #lisp 04:00:14 Sgeo: I think it's got some lazy libs, but not inherent lazy call semantics 04:00:17 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-244-50-48.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02:28 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.26.17] has joined #lisp 04:02:54 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:04 Phoodus: were you asking a question about loop? 04:03:31 is there a parallel list-walker in loop? ie, x in '(1 2 3), y in '(4 5 6), where it'd only do 3 iterations 04:04:03 is that a question or what? because it's confusing 04:04:33 Phoodus: LOOP only does parallel iteration. 04:04:46 because Sgeo just pasted "a parallel list-walker" 04:04:49 Sgeo: I can't believe your still actively trying to find deficiencies in CL. It is perfect. Any problem is on your end, not CL's! (: 04:05:41 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yjpnhburrmxxpzsq] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:06:45 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 04:07:50 I'm trying to make a small script 04:07:57 Nothing fancy--no ASDF system 04:08:04 but I need to use a library 04:08:17 what should I put at the top of my file to ensure its usage? 04:10:59 -!- mon_key` [~user@69.64.7.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:46 stassats/pkhuong: ah yeah, oops 04:12:36 Cosman246: a command to load the library 04:15:34 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:16:11 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 04:16:21 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:18:40 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-105-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:22:03 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:07 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:24:40 stassats: Indeed 04:26:43 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 04:27:19 -!- b4 [~hraban@sd4406b9e.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #lisp 04:28:13 what such command is recommended? 04:29:18 whatever you use to load the library 04:29:32 Cosman246, would asdf:load-system do the trick? 04:31:12 Thanks 04:32:41 bbjwerner [~bbjwerner@c-71-227-176-38.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:11 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 04:34:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.219] has joined #lisp 04:34:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.219] has quit [Changing host] 04:34:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:37:08 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:29 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:23 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:38 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:12 vigil [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:49 Can I make my own kind of streams? 04:44:57 Say, a stream that pushes my kind of objects? 04:45:37 Sgeo: using gray streams, yes 04:47:34 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:41 -!- bbjwerner [~bbjwerner@c-71-227-176-38.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:50:51 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:50:51 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 04:51:22 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:52:05 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:52:08 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:31 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:20 -!- Ansik [~user@124.116.210.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:59:25 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:01:22 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:06 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:14:14 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:46 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 05:23:48 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 05:27:14 -!- cwardell [~cwardell@ool-4351ef1e.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: cwardell] 05:28:52 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:00 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:29:48 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 05:32:54 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:54 -!- Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:33:21 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129203122.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:34:59 where would one find the .clsql-test.config example file or "tests/README" ? I installed with apt-get, am sadly knowledge-deficient when it comes to where Unix stuff is traditionally put. 05:35:28 don't use apt-get to install lisp code, use quicklisp 05:36:04 except QL doesn't work for half the stuff I want 05:36:13 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:36:18 the clsql test runs but gives me an EOF error due to bad config file 05:36:45 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:21 how's apt-get working for you? 05:37:32 what config file? 05:37:35 about as well as QL, thanks 05:37:44 for clsql tests 05:37:47 .clsql-test.config 05:38:03 why do you need to run clsql tests? 05:38:25 trying to save myself headaches before I go and just try to use it 05:40:02 on that note I haven't found a package name that works, but since the test is half-working I figure it isn't :clsql-user anymore 05:41:49 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@246.111.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:41:51 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-1-226.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:42:00 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:42:18 could I get a confirmation/correction on that front at least? 05:42:40 vigil: clsql-user is for interactive use of clsql  like if you were treating it like pgsql. 05:42:42 :clsql and :clsql-user don't work but the test is clearly doing something clsql related sooo.. 05:43:05 vigil: What do you mean they "don't work"? What are you doing with them? 05:43:21 (use-package :clsql) 05:43:31 or user 05:43:58 is that wrong? should I do the :: thing? 05:44:21 vigil: You don't USE a -USER package, you do (in-package #:clsql-user)  it's for a different purpose. But (use-package :clsql) should work. 05:44:39 by "use" I meant type in SLIME's REPL, sorry 05:44:54 though I obviously want to put it in my source too 05:45:32  so what happens when you (use-package :clsql) 05:46:02 Debugger. The name :CLSQL does not designate any package. 05:46:30 vigil: and how did you load CLSQL? 05:47:07 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 05:47:54 ah hm, good point that. ok I think I just hacked it into working by accepting by way through the EOF error. 05:48:08 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:16 sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.81.140] has joined #lisp 05:48:20 Probably better that I go look at my .emacs and see what's up 05:48:38 or, eh, guess I am all around rusty with packages 05:48:42 ok thanks 05:49:30 -!- vigil [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:51:50 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Client Quit] 05:54:13 nostoi [~nostoi@160.Red-95-121-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:28 What happened to Arc? 05:56:45 it's off-topic 05:57:51 -!- tensorpudding_ is now known as tensorpudding 05:57:59 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 05:58:27 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-115-94.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:56 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 06:00:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 06:00:56 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:01:00 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-145-166.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:03:56 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:05:02 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:12:22 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:14:21 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 06:17:50 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:17:51 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@160.Red-95-121-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:18:32 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:19:22 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fjlknnsbzgsfutbp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:21:03 Sgeo: Arc is vaporware 06:22:09 :/ 06:22:10 Arc actually exists, which disqualifies it from being vaporware. 06:22:21 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:22:45 You might argue for 'stillborn', but there is an arc community. 06:26:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-spvhnxinvgpmjpfy] has joined #lisp 06:27:50 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 06:31:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:31:45 if you want to know more, you should probably ask that community. 06:33:25 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:33:37 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 06:33:57 Sgeo: I eagerly await your first CL program. 06:35:23 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@216.99.52.253] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:36:02 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-122-51.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:14 How should I go about converting the result of (read-line) to an integer? 06:36:42 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:03 parse-integer 06:37:33 "The value 2124 is not of type SEQUENCE. 06:37:33 [Condition of type TYPE-ERROR]" 06:37:47 Here, let me paste it 06:37:49 looks like an integer to me 06:38:01 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:39:14 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-115-94.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:39:22 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127872 06:40:31 Before, it complained that it wasn't an integer 06:40:41 concatenate doesn't work on integers 06:40:50 ah 06:41:01 Thanks! 06:41:08 (format nil "http://www.questionablecontent.net/comics/~a.png" number) will work 06:41:31 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-255-015.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 06:41:41 nick1964 [~gaiazzo99@net-2-38-54-197.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 06:41:50 ciao 06:41:55 -!- nick1964 [~gaiazzo99@net-2-38-54-197.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has left #lisp 06:48:49 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:38 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.125.53] has joined #lisp 06:50:26 I've updated it with an annotation, and 06:51:33 and? 06:51:42 and! 06:52:14 And now something seems to be wrong still 06:52:28 let me guess, it's not running? 06:52:44 what made you think that lisp will call main function automagically? 06:52:58 No, that's not it 06:53:07 I call it myself 06:53:22 so, what's your question then? 06:53:35 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:53:45 There's some error in compilation which utterly baffles me 06:53:54 which error? 06:54:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127872 06:54:08 Here, it's in the annotation 06:54:21 i don't see any errors there 06:54:31 i even tried searching "error", nothing! 06:54:39 Cosman246: warnings are not errors 06:55:00 oh, were you concerned about style-warnings? 06:55:04 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 06:55:21 if so, reorder the functions definitions so that they're defined first 06:55:28 I tried that 06:55:31 Let me update again 06:55:58 and are you trying to save space? why there's no empty line between definitions? 06:56:13 and why is that LET takes 175 characters on a line? 06:56:45 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127872 06:56:56 you can link to annotations with #2 06:57:04 ah 06:57:06 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 06:57:35 Cosman246: you forgot a ) at the end of download-qc defun 06:57:49 Oh damnit 06:57:51 Thanks 06:58:36 *Cosman246* reminds himself to get paredit 07:02:17 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:03:00 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-122-51.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:03:08 *Cosman246* facepalms 07:03:42 trivial-http:http-download doesn't actually download 07:03:55 Oh well 07:04:27 why dontcha use drakma? 07:04:42 does drakma do it? 07:04:44 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:04:45 and if so, how? 07:07:59 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:10:23 Cosman246: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127872#3 07:11:23 Thanks! 07:11:33 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-138-53.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-146.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:34 It worked! 07:14:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:43 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:16:45 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 07:16:47 good morning 07:17:51 Ansik [~user@124.116.210.237] has joined #lisp 07:22:00 -!- splittist2 [~splittist@74-104.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist2] 07:22:05 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:16 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:22:22 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:25:10 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has left #lisp 07:25:34 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:25:51 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:14 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.159.249.204] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:26:45 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:37:26 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:38:21 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:38:21 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:38:21 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:42:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:25 hello 07:43:55 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:44:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-195.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:45:25 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:45:32 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:46:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:25 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 07:47:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:52:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.125.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:54:23 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.26.17] has joined #lisp 07:54:26 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.26.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:52 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:58 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:55:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-51-182.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:57 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:07:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.98.39] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:07:30 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:07:32 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 08:09:07 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:11 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 08:11:34 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:12:14 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:13:16 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:15:45 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:18 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:24 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 08:16:43 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 08:18:51 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:31:04 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:31:38 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:34 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:36:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:01 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-haidptlololnudmh] has joined #lisp 08:37:02 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-haidptlololnudmh] has quit [Changing host] 08:37:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:38:33 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:39:58 http://www.daansystems.com/lispide/ 08:40:03 What is going on in that screenshot? 08:40:11 Those defmacros look very repetitive. 08:43:05 do you care? 08:46:08 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:46:31 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:07 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:48:49 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 08:49:28 Sgeo: yes. That's pretty obvious 08:52:11 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:52:20 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:52:45 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.41] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:53:53 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:38 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 08:59:02 good morning everyone 08:59:57 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 09:03:00 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:09:57 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:21 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 09:13:00 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 09:13:33 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 09:14:26 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:14:35 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:14:38 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:16:59 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:12 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:17:13 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 09:18:31 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:19:11 ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has joined #lisp 09:19:30 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:19:36 I am having some trouble setting up a working SBCL environment. 09:20:07 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 09:20:10 I take it that the usual advice is still not to use the packages that come with the distro, but to build everything from source (even if the distro is Debian)? 09:20:10 (ccl:save-application "helloworld" :toplevel-function #'hello :prepend-kernel t) 09:20:14 That was deliriously fun 09:20:22 morning 09:20:28 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:20:48 ZabaQ: especially if it's debian 09:20:55 quicklisp does the job 09:21:25 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 09:21:27 Right. Time for a package purge, then :-) 09:21:38 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:58 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:23:16 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:23:23 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:23:55 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 09:23:58 *Sgeo* is now thinking insane thoughts of making images without prepend-kernel where their toplevel-function just does a save-application that does prepend the kernel 09:24:16 Thus giving me a file I could distribute, and anyone who wants a binary just runs ccl on this file 09:24:32 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-55-21.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:01 you're not making much sense 09:25:34 Wait, the stuff that goes into the saved-application isn't cross platform, is it? 09:25:35 :/ 09:25:52 no 09:28:18 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:28:38 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:01 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 09:30:17 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 09:30:54 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:33:59 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 09:35:12 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:37 http://imgur.com/a/2bhQM#0 some images of progress on my editor's system menu thing 09:35:51 -!- ghoti- [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:37:44 dto: looks nice. is it a CL program? 09:37:49 yes osa1 09:38:00 dto: what gui libraries/frameworks etc. are you using? 09:38:10 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38:25 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:38:29 dto: and what's the purpose of this project? is it a map editor for a game? 09:38:29 it's my custom gui library called Blocky 09:38:42 osa1: this particular screen is a sort of map editor yes 09:38:46 on top of lispbuilder-sdl? 09:38:59 yes, with opengl for graphics. 09:39:12 dto: is it open source? can we see it? 09:39:21 yeah. http://github.com/dto/blocky 09:39:44 brb. 09:39:56 theres some videos in the download area of that. 09:41:58 dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 09:46:07 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 09:48:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:48:18 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 09:51:06 stassats`: i'm trying to build a general multimedia visual programming language 09:51:13 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 09:53:54 -!- Ansik [~user@124.116.210.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:07 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:57:50 ghoti- [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 09:58:28 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:09 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.12] has joined #lisp 09:59:11 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 10:00:48 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:02:10 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:02:15 why 10:02:27 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 10:03:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-spvhnxinvgpmjpfy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:21 sergiolps_ [~sergiolps@187.111.81.140] has joined #lisp 10:04:24 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:25 -!- sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.81.140] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:25 -!- nuba_ [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 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[~pradyus@117.192.50.104] has joined #lisp 10:18:08 mike [~mike@ks391369.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 10:18:32 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:18:46 -!- mike is now known as Guest15948 10:18:53 -!- Guest15948 [~mike@ks391369.kimsufi.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:20:10 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:21:53 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.50.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:24:05 mal [~mal@www.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:09 mikekelly [~mike@ks391369.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 10:24:09 dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 10:25:01 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 10:25:32 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:26:09 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 10:27:56 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:01 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 10:29:24 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:29:29 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:22 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:33:37 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:33:49 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:34:38 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:52 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:38:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xvlowkcljnxzoran] has joined #lisp 10:39:54 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:01 "To construct block matrices (concatenating in the first two dimensions), the syntax [a b; c d] is used to avoid confusion." I hope this is less confusing to MATLABists, because it seems confusing to me. (From http://julialang.org/manual/getting-started/ ) 10:40:45 looks like MATLAB 10:44:17 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:26 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:46:02 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 10:47:08 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:49:01 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 10:53:52 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:54:35 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-195.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:42 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 10:56:47 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.12] has joined #lisp 10:58:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:32 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:59:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:59:45 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:00:55 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1AB9.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:08:08 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 11:08:24 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:10:54 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 11:11:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:12:44 context, context 11:13:05 right at the beginning: "Julias syntax is intended to be familiar to users of MATLAB®." 11:13:18 yep 11:13:21 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:51 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:14:12 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 11:15:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:15:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:19:25 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:20:42 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 11:22:01 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-105-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-178-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:24:23 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:25:59 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@99.181.132.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:31:22 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xvlowkcljnxzoran] has left #lisp 11:33:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:34:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:35:20 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 11:35:39 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:35:55 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 11:37:12 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C24DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:55 *splittist* pities users of MATLAB(R) 11:39:23 ® 11:39:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127874 is there a library that enables a graphical representation of such model of decision tree? 11:40:33 retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:49 daniel__1 [~daniel@p50829F11.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:50 there was very recently a hack posted by someone about visualizing twitter relationship, and he used the CL library that draws these types of diagrams 11:41:53 lemme find it 11:42:08 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p50829220.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42:11 good 11:42:30 http://martin-loetzsch.de/S-DOT/ 11:44:25 maxm-: exactly what I wanted :) 11:44:37 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:57 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:51:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:56:36 Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:00 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:28 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:19 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:14:42 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-51-182.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:17:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:21:04 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:21:23 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:21:36 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.143.123] has joined #lisp 12:22:48 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[~andrew@d118-75-26-80.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:56:14 JKiiski [~JKiiski@178.239.192.228] has joined #lisp 13:56:29 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.158.247.52] has left #lisp 13:56:45 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:47 -!- sshirokov [~sshirokov@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:57:12 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 13:57:35 kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #lisp 13:58:16 -!- kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:21 sshirokov [~sshirokov@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:47 ura [~ura@unaffiliated/ura] has joined #lisp 13:59:05 Hi 13:59:43 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384272.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:59:51 Why (eq (cons 'a 'b) (cons 'a 'b)) evaluates to false but (eq '(a . b) '(a . b)) in unspecified? 14:00:14 because the latter is literal data and compiler is allowed to coalesce it 14:00:22 saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:02:07 stassats`, thanks! So it's possible that (eq '(a b) '(a b)) can be evaluated to true? 14:02:15 yes 14:02:36 ok, thanks :) now it's clear for me 14:08:56 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-1-226.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:03 -!- maxm- [~user@openchat.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:44 maxm- [~user@openchat.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:53 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:02 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 14:14:01 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:27 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:03 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:11 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 14:16:49 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 14:18:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:23:20 Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 14:23:26 -!- Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:51 Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 14:25:46 sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.91.194] has joined #lisp 14:26:19 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:26:40 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:46 -!- sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.91.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:54 sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.81.140] has joined #lisp 14:30:02 -!- sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.81.140] has quit [Client Quit] 14:30:43 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:32:43 -!- Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:34:19 -!- pnq [~nick@AC811FED.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:36:17 nefo [~nefo@58.37.45.234] has joined #lisp 14:36:17 -!- nefo [~nefo@58.37.45.234] has quit [Changing host] 14:36:17 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:36:19 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:04 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:50 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 14:47:59 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-206-76-114-91.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 14:48:13 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-206-76-114-91.public.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 14:49:48 vs` [~user@94.45.59.210] has joined #lisp 14:51:08 Does anyone know, if it's possible to run sbcl with --script and other options at once: like sbcl --dynamic-space-size 2000 --script. Somehow, script becomes ineffective, if combined with other params... 14:52:36 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 14:53:22 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:53:40 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 14:53:47 it's intended for shebang line and you can't pass more than one option using shebang 14:54:42 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55:10 oic, thanks. Maybe aliasing sbcl --dynamic-space-size to something, like sbcl-script will help? 14:55:47 you can change the default value dynamic-space-size during compilation of SBCL 14:55:49 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:56:14 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 14:56:41 ./make.sh --dynamic-space-size=8Gb 14:56:41 Yes, I know, but I'd like to control it dynamically... 14:56:42 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:47 stassats`: would save-lisp-and-die save the dynamic-space-size setting? 14:56:51 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 14:56:55 sykopomp: yes 14:58:13 bah, running ./make.sh --help deleted my compiled sbcl 14:58:23 hah 14:59:01 ouch 14:59:36 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 14:59:41 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:00:11 _nix001 [~Adium@114.92.118.197] has joined #lisp 15:01:08 -!- JKiiski [~JKiiski@178.239.192.228] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:39 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:02:51 can anybody point me to some code where they used cl-oauth with hunchentoot (not the callback handler) 15:02:56 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 15:03:06 *stassats`* sees no easy way to fix it, files a bug 15:04:16 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:24 Harag: there is an example in the cl-oauth distribution. THere's an examples/ directory or something 15:04:49 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:04:51 loke: that has not brought me joy 15:05:03 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:05:12 Harag: to be fair, I've had plenty of problems with cl-oauth. I have the intention of writing my own 15:05:27 I need to, since I need to put OAuth support in cl-gdata 15:06:18 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:06:19 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:07:13 well at this stage a would accept any hack because I am desperate, i need oauth for authenticating api calls to facebook,twitter and linkedin from a hunchentoot page 15:07:21 Harag/loke: I have a fork of cl-oauth at sellout/cl-oauth. I need to merge the changes upstream, but I did fix a lot of things, and I was using it with Hunchentoot. 15:07:35 sellout: interesting 15:07:42 And I used it for FB/Twitter/Runkeeper, etc. 15:07:51 (not LinkedIn, though, I don't think) 15:08:19 I'm holding back my own implementation for now anyway since I have more important things to do. I'll look at your stuff once it's merged back and available through QL... 15:08:42 sellout: I'm really only interested in using it with Google though, so I might be able to take shortcuts 15:09:39 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.241.226] has joined #lisp 15:09:41 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:52 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has left #lisp 15:09:54 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:10:30 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:34 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:10:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:14:50 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:15:15 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:16:04 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:21:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:30 i found some code that does it just for google because of an issue with cl-oauth, lost the link now 15:23:15 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:24:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:25:54 loke: https://github.com/mtravers/waybacker/blob/master/src/oauth2-google.lisp 15:26:24 -!- vs` [~user@94.45.59.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:28:45 Harag: woah. Nice! 15:32:03 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:38 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:50 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:24 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 15:35:27 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:49 -!- borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:37:30 urandom__ [~user@p548A4227.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:24 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-122-100.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:52 Athas [~athas@0xbcb35cbe.cpe.ge-2-2-0-1104.glnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:43:14 -!- Athas [~athas@0xbcb35cbe.cpe.ge-2-2-0-1104.glnqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:38 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:51 -!- dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:51:01 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120208012847]] 15:53:44 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:53:53 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:52 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:37 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:55:48 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:56:02 benny [~benny@i577A8C6E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:52 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:04 osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:58:48 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:07 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-195.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:02:35 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 16:03:33 -!- borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:07:32 How can the program handle user interrupts in CCL? There doesn't seem to be a condition to handle 16:09:12 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:12:50 pjb: on Unixes, you could use ccl:wait-for-signal to wait for SIGINT. 16:13:38 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:13:45 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:14:00 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 16:15:55 Kron_ [~Kron@216.99.52.253] has joined #lisp 16:17:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-98-39.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:46 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:18:59 Well , the point of signals is to be asynchronous 16:21:30 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-384477.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:22:48 But it seems indeed that I can use ccl:wait-for-signal to learn when one occured. 16:22:49 Thanks. 16:22:56 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384272.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:23:22 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 16:23:51 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:26:32 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 16:26:39 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384780.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:29:32 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-384477.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:32:03 pjb: i think the idea is to have an extra thread wait for the signal. that way, there will be no guesswork regarding the dynamic context and you can do whatever you want to properly propagate the signal within your application. 16:33:10 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:30 H4ns: Yes, I can understand the advantage of dealing with signals at known points. 16:33:58 The problem is that almost each implementation does it differently :-) 16:35:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-98-39.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:09 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-137-229.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:40 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 16:39:11 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:35 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:28 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:41:53 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 16:41:55 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:45:57 luis: around? 16:50:01 loke: FYI I was playing around the other day with the cl-gdata from Quicklisp and was unable to LIST-DOCUMENTS presumably b/c one of the docs was a pdf. Not sure if this is a problem for upstream (or if i'm simply doing it wrong). 16:50:01 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 16:50:10 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:05 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:17 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-169-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:17 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:56:49 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-242-129.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:11 sergv [~sergey@217.77.215.57] has joined #lisp 16:58:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:00:20 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:00:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:25 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:11 -!- sergv [~sergey@217.77.215.57] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:16:28 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:05 BrianRice [~water@97-126-48-18.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:22:40 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:25 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 17:24:08 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 17:25:20 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.241.226] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 17:26:19 pnq [~nick@172.129.33.51] has joined #lisp 17:30:35 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:00 french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:11 Hi 17:31:55 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:38 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 17:34:44 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 17:37:29 yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.81.24] has joined #lisp 17:39:21 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:00 sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:15 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:40:32 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:22 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:42:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-13.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:43:22 pldn [~dvorak@77.226.151.243] has joined #lisp 17:43:29 kai_ [~kai@e179007238.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:41 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-124-101.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:44:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-117-24.taosnet.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:10 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:48:42 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-319863.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:48:46 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384780.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:49:00 -!- The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 17:49:04 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 17:50:23 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:59 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:51:32 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 17:53:25 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 17:55:03 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:55:06 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.216.179] has joined #lisp 17:55:40 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.33.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:55:59 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-bqwkkkiyszztbxzy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:57:38 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:03:58 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:05:57 -!- Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song?] 18:07:25 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:03 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.70.77] has joined #lisp 18:08:54 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:08:55 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4227.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:59 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 18:09:12 *Neronus* wonders if its worth to try to write a lisp to lua compiler; doesn't know to what end, though 18:09:35 it's not worth it 18:09:37 I think the latter indicates "no" 18:12:01 That's what I thought :) 18:12:10 I feel tempted, anyway 18:14:08 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 18:14:48 Why not write something useful instead/ 18:15:03 -!- EarlGray^ is now known as EarlGray 18:17:07 Neronus: no, it would be more worthwhile to write a lua to lisp compiler, so that you can substitute ecl for lua, inherit old and luser lua code, and write your own extensions in lisp! 18:18:10 encf pjb 18:18:14 incf pjb 18:18:21 Yo 18:20:37 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-1-226.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:39 AlexLibman [~AlexLibma@ool-18b8a819.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:01 I'm as new to lisp (and all functional programming languages as one can be), but I wanted to play around with the hemlock editor. 18:26:27 AlexLibman: the easiest then is to use ccl, since it bundles it. 18:26:41 pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.217] has joined #lisp 18:26:55 AlexLibman: http://ccl.clozure.com/ 18:27:41 On FreeBSD 9, I installed cmucl-19f_2 and cmucl-extra-19c from ports. You can see the files it installs at http://pastebin.com/yDGXQRR5 18:27:43 Otherwise install http://www.quicklisp.org/ and (ql:quickload :hemlock) should give it to you. But it doesn't work with all implementations. 18:27:58 heh, sec 18:28:00 -!- french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/] 18:28:17 hemlock is an OS X thing? 18:28:18 AlexLibman: yes, it's true cmucl also bundles Hemlock. 18:28:22 Sgeo: no. 18:28:51 I'm completely new to the functional programming language world, all the different dialects and implementations make my head spin. 18:29:12 Basically I'm a copyfree licensing fanatic, and I wanted to see if there was a non-copyleft implementation of emacs. 18:29:24 AlexLibman: Common Lisp isn't a functional programming language. Not really. 18:29:35 AlexLibman: do you have a MacOSX system? ccl is in the AppStore. 18:29:37 You mean not "pure" like Haskell? 18:29:42 Yes. 18:29:47 No, FreeBSD 9. 18:30:18 AlexLibman: it doesn't even stress functional programming like 'impure' languages (such as Erlang) do. 18:30:44 It doesn't even come with compose (although it can be written) 18:30:46 ccl works on FreeBSD 6 and later: http://ccl.clozure.com/download.html 18:30:48 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:31:00 Sgeo: what are you doing here? 18:31:03 Sgeo: or you can just use alexandria. 18:31:03 >.> 18:32:15 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:07 Oh hell. "Haskell isn't even suited to perform basic string processing tasks: its strings are linked lists, so it takes two words to represent each character, and random access is linear time." 18:35:41 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:36:01 >.> the Text library exists and is part of the Haskell Platform, if that's any help 18:36:20 O(n) won't be helped by a library 18:36:29 Sgeo: the alexandria library exists and is part of quicklisp. 18:36:38 Doesn't erlang do that too? 18:37:00 FreeBSD ports has http://www.freshports.org/lang/ccl/ (Clozure CL 1.7), but it's (L)GPL, which is what I'm trying to avoid. Quicklisp doesn't seem to be in ports. In addition to CMUCL, I've also installed SBCL 1.0.55. 18:37:09 pjb, Text is a different data type, not using builtin Haskell Strings 18:37:09 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:37:29 AlexLibman: quicklisp is a single file. 18:38:23 jlpeters [~james@c-67-171-37-138.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:26 CMUCL has hemlock and I wanted to try it, but the instructions on http://www.cons.org/cmucl/hemlock/index.html don't work for me. 18:38:44 AlexLibman: Seems you're cornered. 18:38:49 AlexLibman: hemlock is not in a very usable state unless you have very special needs. 18:38:56 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:39:02 The MIT license software doesn't work, and you won't touch the GPL software. 18:39:07 AlexLibman: good night! 18:39:11 AlexLibman: ports are nice and all, but not very useful with lisp. 18:39:15 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:22 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:39:37 CMUCL is broken? 18:39:51 AlexLibman: not at all, but not very popular nowadays 18:39:55 I thought I needed a proper -lib argument or something... 18:40:07 AlexLibman: Why is CCL's (L)LGPL license undesirable for you? (I would personally like to see CCL changed to Apache 2 or something, but trying to do that relicensing is lot of work for not much practical benefit.) 18:40:18 I just want to play around with hemlock and decide if I want to invest more time into learning all this stuff... 18:40:31 AlexLibman: hemlock is not a good selling point for lisp 18:40:38 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:53 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 18:41:01 It's a philosophical issue. Don't want to start a holy war, just find a solution within my constraints - http://copyfree.org/licenses 18:41:09 AlexLibman: if you want to learn lisp, use sbcl or ccl. 18:42:00 Well, my copyfree choices for an editor are rather limited. Even if something is copyfree (ex. MIT or BSD licensed), it usually depends on something that isn't (ex. Java, Ruby, GTK, Qt, wx, etc). 18:42:28 AlexLibman: right. if the license is the most important thing to you, you'll have a hard time with lisp. 18:42:49 AlexLibman: use vi as part of freebsd base system 18:43:12 So the only editor choices for a base "pure BSD" system are nvi and mg/elle/jove. I wanted to see what the alternatives were. 18:43:32 AlexLibman: using lisp with these editors will be no joy 18:43:40 SBCL doesn't come with an editor? 18:43:43 AlexLibman: no 18:43:50 AlexLibman: we use emacs. 18:43:56 H4ns: there's tons of MIT software around, so lisp in itself seem suitable 18:43:58 flip215: your turn 18:44:00 AlexLibman: I wrote com.informatimago.common-lisp.ed:ed for implementations that don't have an editor. 18:44:04 AlexLibman: but it's GPL! 18:44:20 AlexLibman: you don't want to use *any* gpl software? 18:44:51 If I can avoid it. FreeBSD is getting rid of all GPL stuff from base system. 18:45:36 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:55 Funny. I'd move toward purely GPL a system rather. 18:45:57 I don't agree with copyleft philosophically, and want to see how much can be done without it - a free lawyerless UNIX. Politics aside, it's also a fun thought experiment. 18:46:11 pjb: yeah, but that's why we don't use your code ;-) 18:46:17 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:18 BSD/MIT is the dark side of freedom software. 18:46:31 I think you'll have trouble using the internet without going through the routers with proprietary code on them 18:46:38 AlexLibman: SBCL is an option. but i use emacs as an editor for lisp. it seems to be the sane option. 18:46:40 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 18:46:41 AlexLibman: as you don't seem to care much about practicality, give hemlock a shot. 18:46:42 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:46:58 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 18:47:02 H4ns: +1 18:47:49 How would you say it compares to mg/elle? 18:48:01 Hmm, saw something saying that for CLISP, doing the saveinitmem (I think, or was that for a different Lisp) from SLIME is a bad idea. 18:48:08 Is that also the case for Clozure CL? 18:48:34 For all implementations it's a bad idea. 18:48:34 for pretty much every implementation, you'll be bringing SWANK and SWANK state along. 18:48:45 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 18:51:15 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:12 hi 18:52:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-195.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:16 decaf [~mehmet@95.10.189.41] has joined #lisp 18:54:41 -!- decaf is now known as Guest59049 18:55:20 pkhuong, what sort of problems could that cause, besides a larger image? 18:56:04 -!- Guest59049 is now known as decaf 18:56:07 -!- decaf [~mehmet@95.10.189.41] has quit [Changing host] 18:56:07 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 18:56:12 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:56:25 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:28 Sgeo: I don't know, I've never saved an image with swank (running!) in it. 18:57:14 also, swank usually works with threads, and saving an image with multiple threads running can lead to tears. 18:57:19 o.O 18:57:48 When I was playing around last night, a helloworld binary seemed to work fine 18:57:49 >.> 18:58:04 I haven't used clisp in ages. 18:58:08 Sgeo: the worst thing that can happen is that your image won't work 18:58:12 *Sgeo* was using Clozure CL 18:58:20 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.81.24] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 18:58:47 H4ns, would that brokenness be noted immediately, or later on? 18:59:00 H4ns: I could imagine random deadlocks 18:59:02 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 18:59:35 Sgeo: what pkhuong says. if your image contained locked mutexes with the threads that locked them gone, you'd be screwed. 19:00:02 or references to closed/stale streams. 19:00:05 Sgeo: if you want to play it safe, perform an orderly shutdown of all threads before saving the image. that should work. 19:00:40 pkhuong: in theory, anything can go wrong. in practice, he may be just fine :) 19:01:11 I find it simpler to just save an image outside SWANK/SLIME. 19:01:19 Typically, what would someone do? Just load a lisp file from the non-SLIME repl and do save-application or whatever from there? 19:01:28 Sgeo: [x] exactly. 19:01:56 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:19 Although that's no fun if I want to just type out some code at the REPL and make an executable from there without ever saving any source code simply because I can. 19:02:32 >:D 19:03:15 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 19:03:21 Sgeo: you may want to look into smalltalk if that is what you want to do. 19:03:31 I have played with Smalltalk. 19:03:42 Sgeo: or ask pjb, he has some gpl code to allow image based development. 19:04:08 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.170] has joined #lisp 19:05:40 -!- AlexLibman [~AlexLibma@ool-18b8a819.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 19:08:39 -!- jlpeters [~james@c-67-171-37-138.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:08:51 n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@178.46.15.204] has joined #lisp 19:12:21 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.241.203] has joined #lisp 19:13:01 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 19:13:29 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:33 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:18:08 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:33 hey Xach i have been busy refining my system menu widget and editor. some images: http://imgur.com/a/2bhQM#0 i also made a bunch of changes to the compiler portion to clean things up and also added syntax support for the data flow (where blocks compute result values based on values of child blocks, etc.) 19:19:42 how are you? 19:21:44 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:57 -!- saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:22:02 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:55 -!- ZabaQ [~jconnors@85.207.11.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:27:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@209-188-117-24.taosnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:19 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:33 -!- pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.217] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:29:49 I want to ask about cltl-2ed book. Is there mistake in paragraph, which starts with "Specifiers for aux variables."? 19:29:49 http://www-prod-gif.supelec.fr/docs/cltl/clm/node64.html#SECTION00922000000000000000 19:30:37 asvil: Yeah, looks like it should be &aux, to m. 19:30:38 me. 19:31:28 Indeed. There are a couple of typoes in clhs. 19:31:28 rwiker [~rwiker@233.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:04 sucks about the licensing then 19:32:42 too. 19:33:00 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:33:19 ok, thanks. 19:33:45 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:27 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 19:35:35 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:30 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #lisp 19:41:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:29 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:46:34 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 19:48:08 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:37 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081ECE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:39 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:54:52 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:31 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:00:49 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-076-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 20:01:22 *eMBee* had some time to watch the blocky intro videos yesterday. really impressive! 20:01:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:04 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081ECE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:05:14 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-138-53.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:05:52 hi eMBee :) hey thanks. 20:06:10 im hoping to do a proper beta release sometime in 2012 20:06:36 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-386360.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:08:25 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:47 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-319863.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:09:39 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-138-53.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:00 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A313.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.143.123] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 20:10:56 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:21 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-1-226.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:16 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:12:29 -!- bieber [~quassel@169-75.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:39 bieber [~quassel@169-75.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:40 -!- bieber [~quassel@169-75.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:31 i like it but i also really like writing my code as text so i don't know how i could use it. i had a similar problem getting into squeak 20:14:17 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 20:14:44 i could see myself using it as a teaching tool 20:14:48 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 20:15:58 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-41-187.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:16:35 and maybe as a replacement for the repl for interactive programming 20:18:10 btw: is the game actually writtenwith blocky? or does it just interact with blocky to allow modifications? 20:18:38 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20:13 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:21:23 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@178.46.15.204] has quit [Quit: Òîïèíàìáóð?] 20:21:43 eMBee: the game is implemented in Blocky's plaintext api. the gui builder stuff that you're seeing in the videos is the framework im developing for exposing the engine's featureset as programmable blocks. 20:22:24 eMBee: i.e. were you asking if the game logic for this game is actually all composed of blocks? not yet :) but I have a lot of the infrastructure working to make that happen very soon. 20:23:23 it's not a good replacement for the SLIME repl, but you can run it from within slime. 20:24:39 the gui work is going really, really well. it's satisfying to see it come together 20:24:40 what a great idea, blocky 20:24:54 hello tomodo. im not sure if i ever answered your question from the other day. 20:25:05 it's not necessary 20:25:23 ok :) 20:25:27 there is a plaintext api? nice. 20:25:57 do tou have something written that shows how the plaintext api relates to the gui? 20:26:01 yes. the GUI world is not hermetically sealed---you have access to everything in the engine, most of which is implemented as game objects (including the gui.) 20:26:21 there are things like that all over the place. what do you want to see specifically? 20:26:37 i definitely will add more documentation for the beta 20:27:02 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:02 CampinSa1 [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:13 an example that makes the same thing once using plaintext, and once using the gui. 20:27:35 -!- CampinSa1 [~CampinSam@24-176-98-217.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:14 like in your talk where you show the turtles 5 or so actions as blocks. how would the same thing be done using the plaintext api? 20:29:12 one moment. 20:30:43 https://github.com/dto/blocky/blob/master/blocks.lisp#L757 starting here are some of those methods like move-to and turn-left and move-forward 20:31:20 the verbose argument lists are used to construct a block with the right names/field types 20:32:15 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-137-229.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:26 Posterdati [~tapioca@host249-171-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:32:43 https://github.com/dto/blocky/blob/master/turtle.blocky/turtle.lisp the turtle-specific stuff is here. 20:32:55 i mean the example-specific stuff. all objects can do turtle movement thought. 20:32:57 thouh. 20:32:59 though. 20:33:00 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:00 :( 20:33:11 eMBee: does that answer your question 20:33:13 brb 20:33:51 yes 20:34:00 thank you 20:36:16 -!- __class__ [~class@99.105.56.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:45 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:37:03 french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:25 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:33 from seeing the function definitions i can visualize the code... 20:38:04 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@233.80-202-200.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:38:27 Hi i try to create a function who can detect if a list is circular, i must use the function eq 20:38:57 for some reason i couldn't do that before... 20:39:02 sounds like homework 20:39:40 sykopomp: he's been here before, and before, and before 20:39:49 pjb: your friend is back 20:40:01 running in circles? 20:41:17 *eMBee* is out... good night... 20:42:00 pjb c'est mon pote 20:42:58 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:44:18 eMBee: visualize which code? 20:44:34 saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:46:07 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:03 midnight [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:21 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-41-187.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 20:49:48 -!- EarlGray^ is now known as EarlGray 20:50:12 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:50 pjb: There were two reasons why I think it *might* be a good idea. a) the lua-vm and especially luajit are supposed to be fast and b) the lua vm supports most of the features you want in a lisp anyway 20:52:58 Neronus: how do you know what features I want in a lisp? 20:53:49 dlowe: I've got my spies everywhere. 20:54:39 Neronus: I see a lot of talk and no code 20:56:08 dlowe: Then go look at an IDE instead of a chat window 20:56:37 Neronus: no code coming from you, I meant 20:57:15 dlowe: something wrong with your food supply or anything? 20:58:26 H4ns: I guess :/ 20:58:28 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 20:58:40 dlowe: go see the snack vending machine :) 20:59:10 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:12 Neronus: so, i'm curious. what features do you assume make up common lisp? 20:59:22 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 20:59:52 http://pastebin.com/XBy8aie6 21:00:51 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:01:32 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-204-168-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:42 madnificent: If I said Common Lisp, I would've said anything in the spec :) And a lisp: Well, functions as first class objects with real closures come to mind, mutable state space, code as data 21:02:55 french: #lisp doesn't make homework questions, sorry. also, you should indent your code correctly to make it more readable. for the sake of syntax, the last option in your cond clause probably misses a T: (T (circulaire ...)) i haven't looked at the code functionally. 21:03:13 madnificent: your attempt failed. 21:03:53 H4ns: i know :( i hate my compulsive nature. though i don't think i ruined the exercise 21:04:14 Neronus: and why would we like a lisp with less features than common lisp? :) 21:04:15 madnificent: if the exercise was about "type something" then congrats! :) 21:04:35 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:37 :/ 21:04:45 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-204-168-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:48 madnificent: Because nobody uses get and set anyway? 21:04:51 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:06:14 Neronus: Because too many people still use get and set* 21:06:20 had to correct that, sorry. 21:07:10 Neronus: so? i rarely use compilermacro-functions, but sometimes i really really want them. implementing lua on top of CL seems to make more sense. but have your pick :) 21:07:31 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:42 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 21:11:32 sykopomp: Mh, can you point me to a usecase that is not memoization? This is not a rhetoric question, I would actually be interested 21:12:48 Neronus: I've seen symbols used like one would use hash tables. Heck, even -generated- symbols. 21:12:52 Neronus: memoization generally happens at run time, whereas compiler macros work at compile time. even though much of what compiler macros do can be done with memoization, the two things are fundamentally different. 21:13:18 "Hm. I need a key/value store. I guess I'll generate some symbols and use those." 21:13:22 H4ns: I was talking about get, not compiler macros 21:13:36 Neronus: apologies. 21:13:39 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:14:42 And why would I use that instead of hash-tables or an alist? 21:15:25 Neronus: because you can. i actually have to work with code that does. 21:15:32 Well, one usecase I guess is to store function documentation with the function 21:15:37 Neronus: why would I use hash tables or an alist instead of get? 21:15:45 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:05 H4ns: Always a good reason :) But you don't sound too happy about it 21:16:20 Neronus: no, i'm definitely not happy about it. :) 21:16:33 if you don't have weak hash tables, it can even be useful. 21:17:13 pkhuong: how would that work? 21:18:13 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:18:29 sykopomp: having something on a symbol's plist doesn't prevent the symbol being GCed. 21:18:35 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:07 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:19:53 dlowe: Becaue you can use an alist in exactly the same circumstances without the possibility of information leak in that variable. If you want to use a plist locally you need to generate a symbol. If you don't, then you have a hidden global variable, in a way 21:20:30 If you want a real global variable, then use a dynamic variable and an alist, imho 21:21:20 Neronus: what if I don't care about information leaks? :) 21:23:45 dlowe: Then you can use plists and make the programmer coming after you unhappy. Ask H4ns how it feels 21:25:06 H4ns: how does it feel? 21:25:09 pkhuong: I'm confused. Having something inside a hash table doesn't prevent the hash table being GC'd, either. 21:25:33 dlowe: it makes my life miserable 21:26:19 (funcall (get 'foo 'bar-fn) some-argument) 21:26:25 Kron [~Kron@216.99.52.253] has joined #lisp 21:26:30 H4ns: yuck 21:27:24 thing is, (get 'foo 'bar-fn) yields something in the lines of 'foo-bar-fn, so what the hecking heck? 21:27:25 sykopomp: no, it prevents the keys from being GCed. 21:28:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.216.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28:54 H4ns: Maybe its abstraction gone bad? 21:29:10 Is it at least documented? 21:29:13 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@216.99.52.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:17 lol 21:29:18 hahahah documented. 21:29:18 Neronus: hah! 21:29:19 that's rich 21:29:30 *H4ns* cries 21:29:49 *sykopomp* pats H4ns' shoulder. 21:32:39 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 21:34:37 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 21:36:47 -!- vimja is now known as emacsdaddy 21:37:12 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:24 Hi everyone 21:37:30 ahahaha documentation 21:37:44 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 21:38:50 -!- french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/] 21:41:37 dlowe: you can use com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.list:plist-get so you don't need to attach plists to symbols. 21:42:43 pjb: I don't ever use get. I used hash tables and alists. 21:43:32 Neronus: my "interest" for lua comes from flight simulators. FlightGear and LockOn Flamming Cliffs use lua. The first is free software, which means that I can insert ecl into it, and write scripts in CL instead of LUA. The other is proprietary, which means I'm locked with lua. Better spend my efforts on FlightGear. 21:44:20 Isn't get intended more for compile-time purposes like passing information between macros? 21:44:41 Neronus: however, implementing CL on LUA (and on Java, on Javascript, on bash, on Ruby, on Perl, and on every other programming language should drive some nail home: We don't want your fucking half aborted languages. Just use ecl in all applications! 21:44:58 docAvid`: I'd tend to agree. 21:47:27 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:47:28 pjb: that plist-get is just getf. Also: I was more interested in the lua vm than in the language :) 21:47:51 -!- pldn [~dvorak@77.226.151.243] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:48:32 pjb: Which you probably know, if I look at those initials :) 21:48:44 Yes :-) 21:49:38 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.155.149.238] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 -!- emacsdaddy is now known as vimja 21:52:10 We've got alists, we've got plists, I suggest another equivalent concept: the zlist. It is a cons cell that contains two lists of equal length. The cdr contains the keys, while the car contains the value. Why this way around? Why not! 21:52:38 Errr ... wha? 21:54:01 Just making fun, don't take it seriously :) 21:54:26 Neronus: actually they're used to make bindings. See progv. 21:55:29 Neronus: also PAIRLIS 21:55:58 damn 21:56:05 Er. 21:56:28 pairlis does alists. 21:56:46 Yes, from a zlist. 21:56:58 (pairlis (car zlist) (cdr zlist)) 21:57:08 Hm, true. 21:57:09 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:02 I wonder if I will ever use progv. At least the CLHS knows what its useful for. For plists it gives no such advise :) 22:00:06 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.85] has joined #lisp 22:00:53 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:00:55 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:01:12 With plists I mean the things you get from get, not the once you work on with getf 22:01:45 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-124-101.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:51 Neronus: &key arguments are plists. When you want to manipulate them, you're manipulating plists. 22:02:54 (defun f (&rest plist &key k1 k2) (apply (function g) (plist-put plist :k3 v3))) 22:02:56 pjb: See, that's exactly not what I meant. I know why I would use plists as in the things I use with getf. I don't know why I would use the things I would use with get 22:03:36 I use plists as in getf for an embedded language, for example 22:04:20 and you don't like (setf (getf ...) ...) it seems 22:05:03 It returns the value, not the plist. 22:06:16 aaaahhhh 22:06:37 indeed 22:10:55 Farzad [~root@46.225.105.0] has joined #lisp 22:11:56 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:11:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has left #lisp 22:13:13 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.70.77] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:13:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:50 arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-37-75.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:53 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:14:33 hefner: what did you use for the text rendering in your game? 22:15:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:51 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:18:31 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:19:20 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.241.203] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 22:19:34 -!- sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:20:40 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:58 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 22:26:38 -!- November [november@osiris.parodius.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:11 November [november@osiris.parodius.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:16 Guthur: github.com/madnificent/copp -- you should fetch and read the html file, github doesn't want to render it. guess i'll extend it when i discover more wanted use-cases. 22:28:53 arrsim` [~user@ppp118-209-37-75.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:02 -!- arrsim` [~user@ppp118-209-37-75.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:32 madnificent: cool, will do 22:31:37 Guthur: perhaps the last topic should become the first or second. it's more tangible and practical. 22:32:10 urandom__ [~user@p548A3B31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:35:02 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:35:10 -!- Farzad [~root@46.225.105.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:11 pkhuong: Ok, so I know you're (almost?) never wrong but, whaaaat?? "13:16:55 if you don't have weak hash tables, it can even be useful. 13:18:51 sykopomp: having something on a symbol's plist doesn't prevent the symbol being GCed." 22:35:16 "13:25:31 pkhuong: I'm confused. Having something inside a hash table doesn't prevent the hash table being GC'd, either." "13:27:47 sykopomp: no, it prevents the keys from being GCed." 22:35:45 If you really meant what I think you meant, I can't reconcile that view with the existence of SYMBOL-PLIST... 22:35:45 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:16 LoneLisper [~root@46.225.105.0] has joined #lisp 22:37:20 Hexstream: symbols don't get garbage collected as long as they're interned or used/imported in a package. 22:37:36 (import '#:no-gc-here) 22:38:15 pjb: Right, I know that. Also, they don't necessarily need to be interned in any package not to be GC'd. ;P But it's not what's being discussed here. 22:38:20 Hexstream: I can put stuff on the symbol's plist and the symbol is still up for GC. If I use a hash table, the hash table keeps a strong reference to the symbol. 22:38:21 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:46 Ah, you need for gensyms. Basically. 22:38:56 mean* 22:39:22 no. for symbols. 22:39:37 I mean, for gensym keys. 22:39:56 Wait... now I'm confused. 22:40:01 no, I mean for symbols. Symbols get GCed all the time during interactive development. 22:40:53 What about SYMBOL-PLIST?? 22:41:16 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:46 what about it? 22:41:56 I use a gensym as a key in the symbol's plist, and then it gets happily GC'd, and then I call SYMBOL-PLIST... What happens? The plist will magically lack the entry for the key that was GC'd? 22:42:30 *madnificent* would really like it if the garbage collector called a method on instances by the time they'de get garbage collected. 22:42:37 (in combination with weak hash-tables) 22:42:40 TimKack [~user@c-2ec23731-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:43:05 how hard is it to understand? Instead of associating a value to the symbol in a hash table, you put the value in the symbol's plist. 22:43:39 And how does that emulate a weak hash-table in any way?? 22:44:09 I dont understand what you don't understand. 22:46:56 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 22:47:21 Unless you can pull up a citation from the CLHS to the contrary, I strongly believe that doing (setf (get 'symbol (gensym)) 'value) would establish a strong reference from 'symbol to both my gensym and 'value... 22:47:58 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:22 Hexstream: yes, but it's useless AFA the GC is concerned. 22:48:42 Hexstream: that's completely irrelevant. 22:48:44 Err, sorry, I read it exchanged. 22:48:50 You seem to be saying that my gensym could be GC'd even if I still have a strong reference to 'symbol. To me that makes no sense in the presence of function SYMBOL-PLIST, unless you're telling me that the symbol-plist will then lack that entry... Which is also, well, startingly surprising... 22:48:55 The reference I'm worried about goes the other way. 22:49:02 symbol is interned therefore it won't be GC'ed. Therefore the gensym neither. 22:49:24 Which way is that?... 22:49:33 from the hash table to the symbol. 22:49:40 pkhuong: indeed (setf (get (gensym) 'indicator) 'value) will be GC'ed as soon as the REPL loses it (*, **, ***). 22:49:58 -!- TimKack [~user@c-2ec23731-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:41 pjb: That's specifically not what I'm interested in, I assume a strong link to the symbol whose plist we're talking about. 22:51:35 I don't understand what you want, the semantics of Garbage Collection are clear. 22:52:22 But if you're using a symbol as an hash-table via its plist, I'm pretty certain that there's indeed a strong link from the symbol used as hash-table to the symbol used as key... 22:52:26 Hexstream: so did CMUCL's designers when they created the infodb. It's still a source of bugs nowdays. 22:53:20 They did what? 22:53:33 Hexstream: (setf (gethash symbol *property*) value) <-> (setf (get symbol 'property) value) 22:53:45 The dictionary is implicit. 22:54:08 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:13 -!- arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-37-75.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:54:13 Hexstream: they assumed that symbols don't get GCed so adding strong references doesn't matter. 22:54:30 is there an osicat developer here ? 22:54:44 galdor: yes 22:54:44 Symbols can be GC'd alright, no questions about that. 22:55:03 I'm adding support for prctl() 22:55:36 some constant values passed to prctl() are available depending of the version of the kernel 22:55:37 pkhuong: g2g eat, I'll be back later. 22:55:49 arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-37-75.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:51 is that correct to declare them all in unixint.lisp ? 22:56:13 afaik it will trigger warnings in old kernel versions 22:57:25 this must be what MacLellan's Deux Solitudes referred to. I don't see how hard it can be to understand that using a symbol as a key in a hash table prevents the symbol from being GCed, but that using the same symbol's plist doesn't. 22:58:09 pkhuong: if there's a reference to a symbol, it won't get GC'ed. It doesn't matter if that reference is from a hash-table or from a plist. 22:58:24 a live reference. 22:58:26 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:59:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:59:04 pjb: a plist does not contain a back-reference to the originating symbol 22:59:27 Neither does a key to a hashtable. 22:59:28 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:12 even if it did, we have real GCs that can handle cycles. 23:00:19 Indeed. 23:01:17 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:01:29 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 23:01:45 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-386360.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:04 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:19 I think the only part I'm really confused about is how this could simulate weak hash tables. Heh. 23:02:57 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:30 same here 23:04:18 sykopomp: scroll up a bit: (setf (gethash symbol *property*) value) <-> (setf (get symbol 'property) value) 23:05:54 galdor: I'd define them directly in unix.lisp since they won't change and are linux-only 23:06:42 -!- LoneLisper [~root@46.225.105.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:52 Guthur: freetype 23:06:59 fe[nl]ix: why unix.lisp and not linux.lisp, since it's linux-only ? 23:07:55 hefner: any particular binding, or did you roll your own 23:07:56 ? 23:08:30 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:09:04 LoneLisper [~user@46.225.105.0] has joined #lisp 23:09:10 galdor: yeah, you're right 23:10:24 pnq [~nick@ACA21135.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:27 Guthur: I don't use any libraries in that. :) 23:10:34 fe[nl]ix: thank you 23:10:42 well, no lisp libraries, anyway. 23:11:09 LoneLisper_ [~root@46.225.105.0] has joined #lisp 23:11:49 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 23:12:10 hefner: so just alien calls to Freetype C interface? 23:12:45 Guthur: I've got the freetype calls wrapped up in some C glue, so the interface I need to call from lisp is just a function or two. 23:13:50 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:51 Guthur: it uses ECL, so it'd be easy enough to drive Freetype directly from inline C, but I already had basically the interface I needed as part of another project written in C, so I borrowed the code from there. 23:14:54 hefner: that reminds me: there's a huge hack potential here: http://root.cern.ch/drupal/content/cling-build-instructions . Runtime-compiled inline C++? Yes (: 23:15:06 -!- LoneLisper_ [~root@46.225.105.0] has quit [Client Quit] 23:15:43 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:40 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 23:19:50 huge hacks are good 23:19:55 hefner: cheers, I'll look to freetype if the need arises, seems a reasonable solution 23:20:39 Guthur: cl-vectors + zpb-ttf work pretty well too, if you want to go 100% Lisp. 23:21:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:23:29 pkhuong: that does look interesting. 23:26:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:11 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:29:10 pkhuong: "(05:57:22 PM) pkhuong: this must be what MacLellan's Deux Solitudes referred to. I don't see how hard it can be to understand that using a symbol as a key in a hash table prevents the symbol from being GCed, but that using the same symbol's plist doesn't." <-- Of course using a symbol's plist doesn't prevent that symbol from being GC'd... 23:29:25 If that's the only thing you were asserting all along, there's zero confusion. 23:29:29 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Ping timeout: 608 seconds] 23:30:18 In what situations is CL not able to warn about trying to use an undeclared variable at compiletime? (As in, no warning, just errors at runtime) 23:30:29 What you seemed to be saying was that using arbitrary symbol A as key into symbol B's plist wouldn't create a strong reference from B to A... 23:30:37 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:44 (up until the point where it's removed, and then it could be GC'd) 23:30:47 Hexstream: no, what I'm saying is that "(setf (gethash symbol *property*) value) <-> (setf (get symbol 'property) value)" is a useful transformation. 23:31:16 Froward [~PANZERKON@64.134.68.171] has joined #lisp 23:32:22 Sgeo: non-local symbols can be dynamically created at runtime, so setf/defparameter/defvar will do a runtime check and then create the symbol as needed 23:32:33 Hum. (Doesn't help my understanding that GET has arguments "reversed" :/) 23:32:43 or rather, global and dynamic cope variables 23:32:47 s/cope/scope/ 23:33:05 phadthai, so a typo in a setf'd variable might not be detected at compile-time then? 23:33:11 Sgeo: the compiler may warn at compile time that the variable isn't known, but a runtime check will have to occur 23:33:24 Oh, so it can still warn, that's good. 23:34:21 Kind of spoiled by Haskell where the compiler will yell at me for typos like referring to things that don't exist. 23:34:28 Rather than waiting until runtime. 23:34:31 pkhuong: ... Did you get the arguments to GET reversed?... 23:34:50 Hexstream: no. 23:34:56 I thought we were comparing using a hash-table as a hash-table VS using a symbol's plist as a hash-table. 23:35:24 Sgeo: true haskell can do full static analysis, lisp has to support interactive image modification at runtime 23:35:24 Hexstream: no, we're comparing using a hash table, or the keys that happen to be symbols' plist instead of a hash table. 23:35:36 Sgeo: my Lisp complains about a lot of things at compile time. 23:36:26 -!- midnight [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:48 pkhuong: you should be more careful then, hehe 23:37:02 heh 23:37:08 Hum. So you're saying that with respect to the comparison, the keys of the hash-table are NOT analogous to the keys of the symbol's plist?? 23:37:27 no. the keys are the symbols. 23:37:35 Ah, fuck. 23:38:24 Ah, fuck, I see. Well, I mean, I see that I had entirely the wrong perspective. Now I need to rethink everything from the ground up... 23:38:40 Ah, right. Damn. Yeah, no surprises there. 23:39:14 A simple misunderstanding. However I'm kinda philosophically opposed to symbol plists in the first place, and of such usage. ;P 23:39:40 To me that's unnecessary complexity/global resource. But anyway. 23:40:12 I think I'd like a purely functional generic "setter" 23:40:39 That instead of modifying a structure, returns a new copy of the structure with that particular place changed. 23:40:57 Sgeo: There was something like that somewhere. 23:41:27 possibly even with rollback support 23:41:34 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:41:40 However I can't say that it's really a pattern I've wished to use enough that I'd want to invest in some system to deal with it... 23:42:30 Sgeo: You should probably spend more time studying CL and less time wishing for features. 23:42:49 Sgeo: code it 23:43:00 then you can implement sgeo-set :) 23:43:10 and sgeo-make-instance etc 23:44:55 -!- saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:15 Haskell has several lens libraries. 23:45:29 And what good is something like what I described if only a few people's stuff support it? 23:45:31 Sgeo: so use haskell 23:45:32 Haskell is another language. 23:45:47 phadthai: a way of copying instances and their references (including loop detection) and a different setter should get you a long way. 23:46:09 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:39 -!- LoneLisper [~user@46.225.105.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:06 Hexstream: i tried out clhs this weekend when traveling with spotty internet access 23:47:32 Xach: Did you have a pleasing experience? 23:47:59 Mostly. The direct reference to the software location troubled me a bit. It might be better to indirect through the installed/projects/clhs.txt file. 23:48:05 A la quicklisp-slime-helper. 23:48:17 There was a code suggestion I had but it has temporarily slipped my mind. 23:48:41 LoneLisper [~farzadbek@46.225.105.0] has joined #lisp 23:49:58 -!- LoneLisper [~farzadbek@46.225.105.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:52 clhs? 23:51:33 Common Lisp HyperSpec 23:51:41 Xach: I'm not entirely satisfied with the URL either, if that's what you mean. Especially the HyperSpec-7-0/HyperSpec/ part. Maybe I could make a symlink to HyperSpec from the .asd's directory, with prominent notices explaining stuff for legal purposes... As for what quicklisp-slime-helper does, I don't know what that is, I'll investigate a bit... 23:51:47 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:51:52 I'd recommend working with guides such as CLtL 2 instead, though 23:52:49 I mean, I know what quicklisp-slime-helper does and I use it and love it, but I don't know the "installed/projects/clhs.txt"-analogue part. 23:53:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-95.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:53:13 Sgeo: an online version of CLtL2 is at CMU's website 23:53:27 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/cltl2.html 23:53:41 I'd recommend downloading the DVI or PS file 23:53:47 if you have a PostScript viewer 23:54:03 It's slightly different than the spec 23:54:22 (e.g. SERIES is just a library now) 23:54:54 (if you really want lazy evaluation, I'd suggest you look at SERIES or CLAZY) 23:54:57 Hexstream: if you update clhs, the path changes from .../software/clhs-201202xx-git/ to .../clhs-201203xx-git/ and your emacs setup breaks 23:55:04 (or write your own, it's pretty easy( 23:55:04 Personally I haven't bothered with CLtL2 yet. The CLHS is a bit raw, but it's nice to know that you're reading the actual authoritative version. 23:55:09 ) 23:55:36 Hexstream: but ~/quicklisp/dist/quicklisp/installed/releases/clhs.txt will always point to the latest installed version 23:55:38 Xach: Oh. That's an issue. 23:56:43 Hexstream: quicklisp-slime-helper puts a file in ~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el that peeks slime's file 23:56:44 Sgeo: what are you trying to do? 23:57:17 vigil [~vigil@adsl-074-229-197-048.sip.mco.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:09 is clsql broken for 64 bit? 23:58:20 Cosman246, be more functional 23:58:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-177-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:59:05 Xach: Alright, uh, I can't seem to think straight. I'll need some time to digest this. 23:59:38 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp