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[~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:47 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 00:14:13 brooke [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:47 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 00:15:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:16:26 -!- gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:19 anybody have a good website on the car, cdr, cadr... ? 00:19:23 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:07 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 00:20:34 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 00:20:35 solussd [~solussd@rrcs-76-79-18-158.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:29 brooke: What are you looking for? 00:21:32 -!- Illiux [~nol@wsp047550wss.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 00:22:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:23:02 i want a thorough tutorial, i get lost around cadr 00:23:05 brooke: ah 00:23:16 SICP is probably a good way to g 00:23:16 o 00:24:28 thanks 00:24:42 brooke: cadr == (car (cdr x)) 00:25:10 is the car, cdr and alliteration example only in the videos? 00:26:15 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-15.html 00:27:07 ty 00:27:31 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.51] has joined #lisp 00:29:52 -!- rme [rme@13FF0A92.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:29:52 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:32:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:20 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-82-188.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 00:32:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-82-188.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 00:32:28 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:33:57 -!- wildnux 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[~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:28 faux-perseus [4b4858c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.72.88.197] has joined #lisp 01:12:31 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:12:50 -!- _schulte1 [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:13:05 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:38 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128244201.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:18:11 -!- Corey [~Corey@freenode/staff/corey] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:18:36 -!- brooke [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:20:25 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:16 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:23:10 wuj [~wuj@dyn-160-39-18-214.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 01:23:20 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:24:22 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:52 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:25:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:27:40 why does sbcl give me this warning? 01:27:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127760 01:29:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:18 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:30:59 Cosman246 [~user@nat60-100.kcls.org] has joined #lisp 01:33:35 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:35:40 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:35:49 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-198-213-195-226.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:40 limetree: doesn't give me a warning 01:38:50 -!- Cosman246 [~user@nat60-100.kcls.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:39:05 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:03 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 01:40:08 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 01:40:19 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:37 nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 01:40:50 There's no yaml in quicklisp's library list. 01:41:17 Aethaeryn: Once, I thought I wanted yaml, but turns out it was json. 01:41:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:01 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:44:36 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:40 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 01:49:12 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:08 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 01:54:30 limetree: it's a style warning; basically, register-group-binds expands into code that binds some variables to NIL when no match is found, and some code later assumes that those variables are strings. It's not an issue because that code is protected by a conditional, but the static analysis isn't smart enough. 01:55:05 Still, it's a style-warning, so you can simply ignore it (like asdf). 01:57:14 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:15 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:57:56 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 01:58:35 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:17 seangrove [~user@ec2-23-21-229-151.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:47 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:03:08 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-148-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:03:10 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.155.202.140] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:04:21 Kron [~Kron@98.143.99.39] has joined #lisp 02:05:31 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 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has joined #lisp 02:33:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:54 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 02:34:17 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:36:16 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:37:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:38:51 sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.194] has joined #lisp 02:40:31 gko [~gko@27.52.134.182] has joined #lisp 02:43:44 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:45:19 Just realized that when in the package BAR CL:STRING does not package qualify symbols, e.g. (string 'some-package::foo) => "FOO" whereas CL:PRIN1-TO-STRING does. 02:47:02 One of those obvious things that you didn't know you knew until you rediscover it (: 02:47:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:33 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AEEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:48:43 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:51:23 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 02:53:13 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 02:58:27 -!- basho__ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:59:27 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:59:35 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:39 basho__ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 03:00:20 BuffaloBuffalo [~BuffaloBu@158-147-137-189.harris.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:05 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:01:32 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:11 guys 03:03:39 is there a cl implementation that has great support on linux, unix, windows & mac 03:03:40 ? 03:03:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:51 what's "unix"? 03:03:51 one that is worth using like sbcl 03:04:06 quazimodo: sbcl supports all of those? 03:04:22 sbryant: uh, 0_o i ... what the hell did i read 03:04:32 ok ill be back, :/ 03:04:49 *_* 03:04:50 GLEE!! 03:04:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:05:21 oh cool they are porting over to 64bit tech too huh 03:06:02 I think what you really want is to stop snorting cocaine. 03:06:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:06:29 It might not be wise to stop. 03:06:44 cocaine -- the penultimate nasal demon! 03:06:58 or better yet, snort as much as you can fit into your nostrils in as short amount of time as possible. 03:07:52 sykopomp: hey, you'll get to know me soon, im starting a **project!!** 03:08:22 now i need a cross platform gui i can bundle in with my code to have Glorious Graphics tm 03:08:51 cataska_ [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:11:28 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:11:30 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.235] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:12:15 Good luck! 03:12:41 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 03:13:01 sbryant: cello seems to have apretty powerful mission statement, how legit is the project? 03:13:48 hello 03:14:10 No clue. 03:14:29 I'm not the best person in this channel to ask. I have limited experience. 03:14:42 unlike me who has unlimited experience 03:14:54 you should tm that -> "Limited Experience" tm 03:14:57 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:15:32 tomodo: excellent, wanna talk about how im gonna make a little program and have it work flawlessly in osx, windows 2k through 7 and the various nixes? 03:15:48 I honestly think that's impossible 03:16:03 you can definitely get something to work eventually 03:18:00 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 03:18:20 pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-241-100-169.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:28 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:22:49 tomodo: actually I don't mind, I just want there to be a nice abstraction between getting gui to work, and the program itself 03:23:04 -!- snits [~snits@71-223-162-11.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:23:12 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:24:42 it seems cello is hardly production ready 03:25:35 -!- wuj [~wuj@dyn-160-39-18-214.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:26:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:27:59 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:32 tomodo: think a nice elegant gui can be written in clim? 03:33:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:20 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:32 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 03:35:38 quazimodo: you may wan to consider using Assembly for your "elegant gui" tm 03:36:10 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:12 hi 03:36:30 Xach: got a new video going :) want to see? 03:37:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:10 mon_key: lol as in goal? 03:38:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:40:48 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 03:41:14 quazimodo: for sure but the problem is that you need clim to do that... 03:42:02 tomodo: im a little confused 03:42:31 i'd have thought something as mature as lisp would have an abundance of cross platform gui's 03:42:44 goal needs allegro, right? 03:42:51 -!- elatedpixel [~elatedpix@cpe-174-097-005-182.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:45:32 well I could be wrong (let's hope so) but I don't think we have this 03:46:23 quazimodo: commercial implementations have cross-platform GUIs 03:46:39 you can link with Qt, go directly with X11, etc. 03:46:49 and btw, X11 is *the* cross platform GUI ;) 03:47:09 hrm 03:47:10 quazimodo: you can do whatever you want. just doing it is going to be varying degrees of difficult 03:47:42 Tk is also fairly easy to get running everywhere 03:47:50 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:16 Qt is a good choice as well 03:48:28 DataLinkDroid [~David@120.155.153.115] has joined #lisp 03:48:49 http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 03:48:55 Not sure if that's any good 03:48:58 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:48:59 sbryant: i've used qt, never tried to make it work on windows/mac tho 03:49:02 commonqt is quite good 03:49:10 but it even has lisp translations of the qt tutorials 03:49:11 but you need to watch out for C++ problems 03:49:30 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:47 Anyone used SWIG before? 03:50:04 at least one common failure I've noticed is compiling CommonQT's interface shims with mingw and use them against MSVC-compiled Qt 03:50:08 sbryant: I did 03:50:16 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:50:33 Anything to look out for? 03:50:59 sbryant: hmm... you might have to copy the definitions to your *.i files 03:51:10 I generated cffi glue for libev and it seemed to go out 03:51:11 also, it won't magically solve C++ 03:51:12 err 03:51:13 okay 03:51:22 Don't really care about C++ 03:51:34 but yes, C code that is sensibly written is easy to get interfaced 03:52:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xvfzzdoeqeivwtjb] has joined #lisp 03:52:07 Or if anyone already has libev bindings now is the time to tell me 03:54:22 what are you going to use it for? 03:55:31 p_l i know enough c++ to be dangerous 03:56:17 hrm i really wanted this to be a small project with a little download and memory footprint and a consistent interface 03:56:27 maybe ill have to use java :( 03:56:40 p_l: so I don't have to reimplement an event system really. And libev is small and quick and has all the things I want. events, and timers 03:57:22 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:23 quazimodo: you might know C++ enough, but do you always remember to track down which lib has which ABI? :) 03:58:33 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:59:18 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:40 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.63] has joined #lisp 03:59:56 p_l: think it's a bad idea? 04:00:55 sbryant: I think iolib has that stuff 04:01:01 and SBCL includes at least some 04:01:09 quazimodo: why don't you use java for the GUI, but write the program in lisp? 04:01:34 I tried to use iolib's but it was failing to fire more than a single event on OS X. 04:01:43 iolib's multiplexer that is 04:02:05 sbryant: which implementation? 04:02:26 http://tmblr.co/ZWk82xE4YwRt 04:03:09 sbryant: umm... you're not supposed to use 0MQ fds in polling 04:03:19 it's by definition "hairy and probably will fail" 04:04:14 I suspect it was more an issue with 0MQ 04:04:41 or rather the fact that ZMQ_FD is ugly backdoor hack from what I know 04:05:01 p_l: where did you find that info? 04:05:09 tomodo: that is an option i guess :/ 04:05:26 why aren't you happy with that 04:06:13 sbryant: I'm working on using 0MQ in my project, so I investigated a little. It's mentioned several times on website, and at least few times seen that in #zeromq 04:06:16 if you don't have trouble writing a simple java program it solves the problem perfeclty 04:06:30 p_l: http://api.zeromq.org/master:zmq-getsockopt 04:06:45 It says it can be used. 04:06:54 I know it used to have problems 04:07:29 so as long as I check the ZMQ_EVENTS I should be okay 04:07:53 sbryant: afaik it still has problems. I'm not part of 0MQ team, so I can't give authoritative answer, though 04:08:12 it's also fully possible that the same code would work okay on another unix 04:08:15 I've used it quite a bit :) 04:08:20 it did 04:08:42 brb laundry 04:08:44 OSX has hairy and iirc halfway broken event system 04:08:49 no 04:09:01 kqueue is standard and pulled from BSD 04:09:31 I used to be from *BSD land and was pleased when it worked the same way 04:09:37 brb4realz 04:09:41 sbryant: the API might be. The underlying event system is not 04:10:00 ... though.. it might be, then it's more hairy >_> 04:11:06 ok 04:11:06 so 04:11:38 i kinda wish lisp had a powerful cross platform gui system. 04:11:46 a non commercial lisp tho 04:11:46 leoncame` [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:11:47 haha 04:12:42 it does 04:12:48 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.155.153.115] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:12:50 it's called html5+css 04:13:36 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-148-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:46 -!- leoncamel [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:14:08 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:15:15 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:15:45 sykopomp: lol thats crappy 04:15:51 i dont want to run it in a browser! 04:15:55 quazimodo: why not? 04:16:11 it wont work out, nature of the software 04:16:19 p_l: hrrm I'll look into that 04:17:10 quazimodo: why? 04:18:40 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:18:44 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-32-166.public.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 04:20:29 sykopomp: mm, the software needs to be very responsive, use keyboard shortcuts and have very customizable fields. Atm a prototype runs in emacs and really, thats quite ideal, except i dont want to expose users to emacs 04:20:50 quazimodo: sounds like a job for modern browsers. 04:21:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-44.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:52 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:23:13 cl-webkit? 04:23:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:50 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.25.8] has joined #lisp 04:23:52 or just, you know, host the software on your server instead of having anyone download a binary. 04:24:50 sykopomp: it wont work, the software needs to be completely hidden (not even seen in the task bar), be popped out via a keyboard shortcut, have the user make quick changes (under a few seconds) and then popped away 04:25:22 unless i run a browser embedded into a new software, im not sure how youd get firefox to do that 04:25:27 then just use java 04:25:33 yeah 04:25:40 looks like that'll be happening 04:25:43 ##java is over there -> 04:25:53 its a shame lisp doesnt let me do what java does :( 04:26:05 a shame really 04:26:15 no joke 04:26:20 for real 04:26:23 i'd have *loved* to do it with lisp 04:26:31 so you say 04:26:33 woulda learnt it better, exposed it more, et 04:26:43 or you could just go use java now 04:26:45 i guess i can do lisp+qt 04:26:54 ill think bout it and read more 04:27:00 thank you for all the help :D 04:28:59 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:05 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:15 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 04:31:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-128.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:31:44 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:04 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-128.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:57 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:01 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:06 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:33:29 -!- seangrove [~user@ec2-23-21-229-151.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:52 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:35:31 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:35:56 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:37:22 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:48 quazimodo: abcl is a common lisp on the jvm. 04:37:50 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 04:38:32 also, dto seems to be doing fine making cross platform common lisp applications with opengl/sdl on windows and linux. 04:38:33 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:38:45 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:38:58 quazimodo: opengl/sdl is a good combo 04:39:04 nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:50 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:43:45 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:37 dto: opengl/sdl eh, ill research it in a moment, does osx work with it? 04:46:18 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.89.253] has joined #lisp 04:46:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:52 -!- peccu1 is now known as PECCU 04:47:40 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:47:46 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:48:05 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 04:48:23 Vivitron 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mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:43:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:44:02 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44:58 good morning 07:45:14 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:48 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:00 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:50:59 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:52:02 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:36 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-205.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:14 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:57:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host 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has joined #lisp 08:37:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:50 -!- irctc446 [5a118ee8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.17.142.232] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:41:39 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:41:45 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:43:38 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:47:52 I'm trying to write a web app in common lisp and I don't know SQL, do we have any good ORM libraries for CL? 08:49:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-141.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:37 osa1: you don't have to use a SQL RDBMS. 08:50:45 You can use an OO DBMS. 08:51:15 http://www.cliki.net/database 08:52:29 pjb: thanks. I've heard somewhere that there are now some modern databases that uses JSON or something other than SQL to manipulate records, do you know anything like that? 08:52:51 osa1: http://www.cliki.net/database 08:53:17 Good morning. CL-CSV reads comma-separated streams or strings. 08:53:18 All I know comes from the web. Wikipedia, google, cliki.net. You can go to the source yourself. 08:54:01 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:54:09 I found it odd that the main entry point, #'read-csv, takes a stream or a string but _not_ a pathname. 08:54:37 with-open-file 08:54:39 What could be the rationale behind demanding a stream? 08:54:42 with-input-from-string 08:54:54 Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:58 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:56:21 pjb: w-o-f, certainly. The blurb for the lib says: "This library aims to simplify working with csvs to the bare minimum of tedium" 08:56:53 I'm grasping for a /reason/ not to handle a pathname. 08:57:24 One more function to include in the library. 08:58:21 chr: compare COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM.FILE with COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM.STREAM. 09:00:42 osa1: There is elephant. It uses SQL as a backand, but AFAIK it shouldn't be necessary to know it 09:00:52 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 09:01:40 Neronus: thanks, will look 09:02:58 pjb: sed -i s/Xarch/Xach/ /develop/lisp/com/informatimago/common-lisp/cesarum/stream.lisp , maybe? 09:03:07 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:03:39 chr: find them in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/cesarum 09:04:12 or (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp) 09:04:39 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:33 osa1: I recommend learning SQL - things that try to replace or gloss over the relational model are usually a bad idea in my opinion. Postgres even let's you use Scheme for procedures http://plscheme.projects.postgresql.org/ 09:08:36 osa1: it's better to write code processing streams than files, because your streams can come from anywhere, not only from files. Furthermore, even in files, you may have parts with different forms, so parser should still work on stream, so that you can call a sequence of parsers. You could have some CSV lines, followed by some JSON followed by something else 09:08:43 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:10 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:09:28 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 09:10:32 docAvid: I don't know. I alredy have lots of stuff to learn in queue. 09:11:32 I can't believe a mature language like CL doesn't have a widespread web framework like Python's Django, Ruby's Rails, Clojure's Noir etc. 09:11:52 yeah we have weblocks but I saw it's documentation and now I don't want to use it 09:12:13 osa1: if you just want to do a small app you could just write some lists in a file. 09:12:58 when I quickload a project fasls are created in one location but when I compile in emacs/slime they are created in the source code location, how do I get emacs/slime/sbcl to also use the quickload location for fasls? 09:13:30 Harag: (setq slime-compile-file-options '(:fasl-directory "/tmp/slime-fasls/")) 09:13:57 daimrod: thank you 09:14:13 but iirc you can't (yet) put them in the same directory used by quicklisp or asdf 09:14:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:42 because it uses .cache/common-lisp/..../project-name/ or something similar. 09:15:20 yeah .cache in my case 09:15:36 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:15:51 daimrod: why not yet? 09:16:33 because it's not implemented, but maybe someone'll do it one day. 09:17:32 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:17:33 for now i am only interested in getting my own projects fasls out of my source directories so its simpler to clean up 09:18:32 so I can wait for one day ;) 09:18:38 you should put before (make-directory "/tmp/slime-fasls/" t) to ensure the directory exists. 09:19:39 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:19:48 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yshlrqlxuperpvnq] has joined #lisp 09:21:03 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 09:22:25 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:22:58 mmm i see the problem, so how would i set the slime fasl-directory per project... 09:24:05 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 09:24:41 -!- BuffaloBuffalo [~BuffaloBu@158-147-137-189.harris.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:24:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-128.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:27:46 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:41 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has left #lisp 09:33:26 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:45 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 09:37:41 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rzkwmxitwtvmneul] has joined #lisp 09:40:46 PfhatHome [PfhorSlaye@cpe-76-94-20-207.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:41:59 Hey all, anyone around who is familiar enough with syntax objects to help me figure out why I'm not getting the error reporting I'd expect? 09:44:01 PfhatHome: what's "syntax objects"? 09:44:03 "syntax objects" is Scheme lingo, ain't it? 09:44:59 well, then #scheme is more appropriate 09:45:00 it's first class macro masturbation! 09:45:01 lol 09:45:06 Ah, sorry 09:45:52 I'm not familiar enough with scheme to realize common lisp didn't have syntax objects, my bad 09:46:48 -!- lispyone [~lispyone@24.144.25.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:47:16 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:47:28 lispyone [~lispyone@66.158.179.66] has joined #lisp 09:47:36 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 09:49:04 PfhatHome: still, would you please tell us what "syntax objects" are used for? 09:49:29 I can try :) 09:49:42 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-217-69.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:50:01 My understanding is that they wrap expressions up along with contextual information about where the expression came from 09:50:08 ie, source file and line number info 09:50:09 PfhatHome: In your case, that is. I suppose the web is an equally good source for info on syntax objects in the general case. 09:50:47 I can explain my issue if it would be appropriate to do so here? 09:51:41 I suppose the solutions may depend on what CL implementation you intend to use. 09:52:45 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:37 Let me read up on something a little bit, maybe I can figure it out on my own 09:55:22 With Lispworks you'd look at dspecs: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw61/LW/html/lw-68.htm 09:55:59 chr: that's a bit different, i think 09:57:25 probably a combination of dspecs and environments would be close to syntax objects (as far as i understood from racket page on the topic) 09:57:55 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:58 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:45 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:59:15 Vutral 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has joined #lisp 11:32:42 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 11:32:42 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 11:32:42 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 11:32:42 Xof_ [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 11:32:42 felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has joined #lisp 11:32:59 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wohmnfweetrzcmlc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:07 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:33:09 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:33:09 bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 11:33:38 -!- attila_lendvai is now known as Guest84673 11:33:55 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 11:34:07 daniel__2 [~daniel@p50829EDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:33 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:35:10 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:37 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:35:41 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:36:26 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:36:27 rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:37:06 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082B4EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:37:37 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:40 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:43:35 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:50 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:39 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 11:45:23 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:47:37 X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1400:b::b793] has joined #lisp 11:49:36 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:36 hkarlen [~user@ip-85-197-171-11.c4stads.bikab.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:43 can anyone recommend a lisp flavor for a beginner? 11:50:25 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:50:29 There are no Common Lisp flavor. 11:50:39 All CL implementations are 100% conforming. 11:51:02 rurufufuss: you can choose any implementation you want to start. You will use several implementations for different deployment. (this is a late decision). 11:51:09 in that case what are the big differences between implementations usually? 11:51:18 ah right, thats good to hear 11:51:27 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:57 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 11:52:02 sbcl generates optimized native code. clisp is small. ccl sources are more readable (IMO) than others. 11:52:04 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:52:21 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has joined #lisp 11:53:09 cool, sudo apt-getting clisp then 11:53:19 Good choice. 11:53:31 madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 11:53:52 Then get emacs and paredit; and install http://www.quicklisp.org ; with quicklisp, install slime and any CL library. 11:54:05 common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/ 11:54:22 rurufufuss: browse http://cliki.net for the other pointers. 11:54:38 in my experience clisp backtrace was useless (last time i saw one many years ago) 11:55:02 gracias mon freund 11:55:05 also, SBCL is the implementation best supported by SLIME 11:55:52 but the apt-get version of sbcl for ubuntu is dated and does some funkies that dont play nice with quicklisp 11:56:09 ugh, just finished installing sbcl from apt-get, haha 11:56:12 32 megs of it 11:56:31 Yes, sbcl is big. 11:56:41 To compile optmized x86 code, you need a lot of code 11:57:02 rurufufuss: it was some thing that was easy to fix, if you run into trouble i am sure some one could help here 11:57:09 clisp compiles to a Lisp VM, so it needs only amuch simpler compiler, and its disassemblies are much more readable. 11:57:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:57:47 pjb: yeah, apples and oranges 11:58:17 some people look at disassemblies to see what _machine_ code is generated 11:58:34 that sounds pretty hectic 11:58:48 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:00:15 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:34 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-yshlrqlxuperpvnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:01:13 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:01:44 -!- ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:01:57 -!- mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:02:28 leoncamel [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:02:29 -!- am0c [~am0c@59.5.107.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:02:37 siganderson [~siganders@dynamic-adsl-78-13-13-199.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:02:46 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:03:10 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:03:19 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:03:29 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:03:29 -!- basho__ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:36 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-eahsaznkmvilywub] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:03:41 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:03:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:03:45 -!- Neronus [christian@heraklit.ayous.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:03:54 -!- kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:54 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:54 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04:19 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04:19 am0c [~am0c@59.5.107.158] has joined #lisp 12:04:24 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 12:04:28 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:04:33 kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:34 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:38 ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has joined #lisp 12:05:08 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:12 lacedaemon [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:05:24 I should write a program to sum two polynomials represented by two lists (es X^2 + X + 3 ---> ((1 2) (1 1) (3 0)) ) but I can't find a fast and smart way to do it. Any ideas? 12:05:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:05:57 hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:08 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:06:15 To begin with, this representation is bad. 12:06:26 siganderson: append lists, sort by exponent, go through adding together terms with same exponent? 12:06:37 Imagine: (X^100) + (X^1) 12:06:53 vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:06:58 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:06:58 dys [~andreas@krlh-d9be7edd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:07 pjb, the representation is forced to be that (by requirements) 12:07:23 fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:35 what flip214 said. 12:08:20 siganderson: why is it X^2 and not (^ X 2)? 12:08:52 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 12:08:57 mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:27 jdz, this is an exercise, I think it's structured in a way to let me learn something and so the representation is in this way 12:09:34 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:34 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 12:10:01 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ytemvvbalkieuoyw] has joined #lisp 12:10:10 Neronus [christian@heraklit.ayous.org] has joined #lisp 12:10:35 siganderson: if the lists were sorted in increasing exponents, it would be easier to do the sum. 12:10:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:10:51 cYmen [~cymen@78.46.36.170] has joined #lisp 12:10:55 but if you use flip214's solution it doesn't matter, since you're sorting it. 12:11:09 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 12:11:41 pjb, yes I forgot to say they are already sorted in decreasing exponents 12:11:43 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:11:57 siganderson: then use reverse. 12:12:01 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:03 it'll be faster than sorting. 12:12:05 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:12:28 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 12:12:42 if they're sorted, then you can just loop through and add up matching values ... no need to reverse 12:12:53 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 12:13:05 pjb, but why should the exponents be sorted in increasing order? 12:13:17 basho__ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 12:13:21 and what about missing exponents in one of the two lists? 12:13:31 siganderson: study the merge algorithm. 12:14:42 Well one could do the same sorted in decreasing order too. 12:14:55 pjb, ah ok :) 12:15:10 The increasing order is good for the following representation: (3 1 1) instead of ((3 0) (1 1) (1 2)) or the reverse. 12:15:15 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 12:15:22 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 12:17:32 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1400:b::b793] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:17:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:47 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:18:41 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:44 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:18:56 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest95161 12:19:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-141.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:47 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:59 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:24:01 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:25:14 Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has joined #lisp 12:25:25 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:26:18 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 12:27:29 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:45 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:29:01 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:30:13 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 12:30:35 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:21 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:06 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:33:45 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:58 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:28 fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:38:53 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:39:03 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:59 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:12 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:43:46 -!- siganderson [~siganders@dynamic-adsl-78-13-13-199.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: siganderson] 12:44:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:45:22 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:45:36 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 12:45:38 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:46:57 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:16 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:47 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:51:44 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:52:22 em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:27 -!- em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:52:28 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:52:42 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:46 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:53:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:54:38 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:50 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:57:45 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 12:58:04 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:59:05 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:00:08 paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-77-114-76-208.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has joined #lisp 13:02:13 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:02:36 What is the name of such higher order function similar to map : map f list IS ( ( f elem1) ( f elem2 ) .... (f elemn)) and foobar would be : (f elem1)@( f elem2)@.....(f elemn). Where @ is concatenection of 2 lists ? 13:03:24 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:43 dtw: are you dto? 13:03:47 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:03:52 paul424: is that not just (apply append (map f (list elem1 elem2 ...))) 13:03:53 paul424: do you mean mapcar and mapcan? 13:03:54 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:04:32 *paul424* googles at definition 13:04:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:50 tomodo: is it just I wanna to know name 13:04:57 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:07 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:05:48 -!- setmeaway2 is now known as setmeaway 13:05:50 quazimodo, I'm not. 13:06:02 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:06:41 Bugti [~nightride@182.183.133.183] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 hello 13:07:18 -!- Bugti [~nightride@182.183.133.183] has left #lisp 13:08:16 -!- ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:08:42 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #lisp 13:10:01 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 13:10:15 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:35 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 13:10:53 ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 13:11:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:11:47 -!- sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:34 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:13:22 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:41 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:14:15 -!- Guest84673 [~attila_le@87.247.3.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:16:32 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 13:17:09 knobo [~bohmer@14.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:53 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:18:01 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 13:18:29 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-89.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 13:18:58 I can do (let ((name 'x)) `(',name)) and get ('X) but is it possible to expand it in to the keyword package so that I get (:X)? 13:19:03 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:19:28 knobo: (let ((name :x)) ...) 13:19:57 knobo: otherwise, the way to get a keyword symbol with the same name as some other symbol is (intern (symbol-name other-symbol) :keyword) 13:20:17 that has nothing to do with backquoting or quoting or anything else 13:20:37 ok, so I have to go through intern, then. 13:21:09 I just wanted to check if there was a way I did not know of. 13:22:07 paul424: don't use google. use clhs: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 13:22:18 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:22 hhe ok thanks . 13:22:46 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:22:58 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 13:23:03 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:03 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:31 pjb: or, how'bout http://lispdoc.com/ ? 13:24:29 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:24:30 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:18 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:25:49 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:29:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:53 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:30:59 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:32:32 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:33:53 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:36:02 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:36:19 arghht the 0 LOOKS like empty list () in here :D .... ( slime + emacs ) 13:37:01 paul424: try a different font. 13:37:17 It is critically flawed if 0 and () are hard to distinguish 13:37:53 yeah ... is there any single line command in emacs to do that ? 13:38:03 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:38:09 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:38:30 I don't know. 13:38:40 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:38:43 M-x customize-face RET maybe 13:38:47 C-x C-+ 13:38:57 -!- Guest95161 is now known as X-Scale 13:39:14 if it stays like that enev on bigger size, then the font is not worth using 13:39:17 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:39:42 i'm very happy with Ubuntu Mono 13:41:01 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has joined #lisp 13:42:20 *Xach* is a happy 7x14 user 13:42:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:06 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 13:43:33 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:44:57 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:13 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:45:35 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 13:46:03 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:46:45 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 13:47:46 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49:13 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:19 sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.194] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:51:29 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:52:48 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:55:38 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:40 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-048.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:56:53 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:54 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-241-100-169.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:57:03 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:26 -!- hkarlen [~user@ip-85-197-171-11.c4stads.bikab.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:57:37 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:54 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 13:58:05 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:58:08 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:58:23 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.89.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:33 paul0 [~paul0@189.26.129.30.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:59:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:04:07 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:20 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:23 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:06:23 dto: yo i was waiting for you! 14:06:33 hi quazimodo 14:06:45 is it ok if i ask you some questions? 14:06:49 sure 14:08:16 so i was looking at the idea of linking to opengl and sdl 14:08:36 as i said i wanted cross platform support (as much as possible) while still writing a lisp application 14:09:02 i've no idea, but how sane is it to write a gui using opengl + sdl? 14:10:29 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:52 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 14:11:06 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:50 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:56 quazimodo: a little. 14:12:05 does it make more sense to dynamically link to qt and incldue that in my bundle? 14:12:12 maybe. 14:12:21 Ooops, I'm not dto. 14:12:25 :P 14:12:49 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:12:50 i already need to bundle a cl interpreter with the product 14:13:04 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:27 interpreter? 14:13:30 -!- paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-77-114-76-208.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Quit: GG] 14:13:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:56 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-djwejzwaqhlvqmvo] has joined #lisp 14:14:13 quazimodo: sorry was afk. hold on 14:14:35 xach unless i compile it, dno if any of the open cl implementations do compile tho 14:14:42 Most of them do. 14:14:47 Xach: hey, in case you want to see progress: https://github.com/downloads/dto/xalcyon.blocky/xalcyon-megavideo.ogv 14:15:15 Either to bytecode or native. 14:15:22 quazimodo: they all do 14:15:31 quazimodo: when you say GUI do you mean you want typical textboxes, slider scroll bars, buttons, menus? 14:15:37 Actually, is there _any_ strict interpreter for CL? 14:16:17 quazimodo: if you make an executable with lisp, the runtime is included (and any interpreter/compiler that may be present) 14:16:30 Much as with C. 14:16:38 Zhivago: :) 14:16:42 im still very new guys :D 14:16:59 Zhivago: Much of the C runtime goes by the name "operating system", though. 14:17:00 quazimodo: Probably best to drop assumptions early 14:17:02 Yes. The inability to spell "I'm" is indicative. 14:17:07 Odin: Nonsense. 14:17:11 dto: Cool video 14:17:23 dto: I can see the dual analog style in effect 14:17:42 Zhivago: no, im just not particularly puritanical regarding punctuation when everyone understands what im communicating 14:17:49 Xach: yeah i guess 14:18:20 dto: ill see how sbcl can make an executable, but yeah a fairly basic user interface is needed 14:18:27 quazimodo: Lazy writing encourages lazy thought. 14:18:39 quazimodo: i don't know much about the state of CL bindings for things like Gtk and Qt. im one of the people who went off into the wilderness and came back with my own GUI framework 14:18:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:42 Zhivago: interesting nonesense 14:18:54 Zhivago: Something like half the standard C library is derived from Unix system interfaces, and without that, C is as capable of being useful as plain JavaScript. 14:19:16 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19:24 dto: thats cool, i like that option too, did you find that using sdl an opengl was ... good? 14:19:24 Odin-: can you continue discussing lisp, please? thank you. 14:19:32 by that i mean did making it portable seem easy 14:19:34 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:20:01 Odin: Such as strlen? malloc? fopen? 14:20:44 H4ns: Well, it is relevant to the annoying, but common, argument that "Lisp executables are so large". But yeah; not the right place. 14:20:53 *dto* realizes he forgot an apostrophe in "i'm" a few lines back. thats a sin for someone named O'Toole 14:20:56 :) 14:21:37 quazimodo: portability is great. for making the downloadable windows and linux versions of my games, I change only the build script, not the code. 14:22:21 Xach: thanks :) i'll probably upgrade the graphics soon, i really want to show off the opengl transparency stuff 14:22:29 although some is being used in what you saw. 14:23:04 dto: that seems very cool, im guessing on os x it'd be a similar thing then 14:23:13 dto: do you have a link to your work? 14:23:21 bubo [~bubo@91-114-177-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:23:33 for the most part. i think i have one or two extra lines of code that run when its on mac, because of some library paths issue. but it's not a big deal. 14:23:47 Huh. 14:23:54 ok, this is lifting my spirits 14:24:00 Lisp executables are mainly large because of implementations that thought that dumping images was a good idea. 14:24:07 having opengl accessible on 3 platfroms easily :D *glee* 14:24:30 dto: Is that because of the supposed-to-be-self-contained nature of OS X applications? 14:24:34 quazimodo: http://dto.github.com/notebook/xalcyon.html is my current project, others are at http://dto.github.com/notebook/games.html <---- sorry for some broken links 14:25:06 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:07 Odin-: i don't remember the details. my friend who was making my mac builds for me at the time, gave me the line of code 14:25:15 'k. 14:25:19 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:28 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:25:28 -!- ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:25:28 -!- cYmen [~cymen@78.46.36.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:25:34 quazimodo: you can do opengl multiplatform, yeah 14:25:35 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:25:35 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:25:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:25:41 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:42 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:25:54 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:25:57 -!- kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26:10 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ytemvvbalkieuoyw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:26:10 -!- H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:26:10 -!- mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:26:18 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:26:23 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:26:35 -!- basho__ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:35 dto oh no, you made XONG?! 14:26:36 hahaha 14:26:45 :) 14:26:49 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:26:51 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:27:04 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:27:18 so 14:27:21 -!- Neronus [christian@heraklit.ayous.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:27 im guessing these are just your side projets 14:27:32 whats your job? 14:27:32 Speaking of large executables, bzexe and gzexe both use tempfiles and stuff. What's the other executable compressor that does it all "in place"? 14:27:43 *Xach* has used it but can't remember 14:28:01 dto: That game is looking mighty nice, by the way. Gamepad-only, you say? 14:28:06 upx? 14:28:51 Xach: UPX does in place, but I had strange errors with it 14:29:22 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:25 ah, same here. it's not working with the saved core, just the runtime. 14:29:29 dto: xalcyon seems fun as hell, though completely blinding to theye eyes 14:29:48 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 14:29:50 Odin-: hey thanks! yeah it requires a USB controller with dual analog sticks. you can get one on amazon for $10-15 if you make sure to check the reviews of the one youre buying 14:30:11 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:19 *Odin-* lives in Iceland. Shipping is more than that, wherever I buy it from. 8) 14:30:33 quazimodo: ha, well i'm upgrading the graphics soon. these pixels arent really representative of my best art skills 14:30:35 Well, except maybe dealextreme... 14:30:54 dto: whats your income work? 14:31:00 Odin-: arent there ten game stores within 30 minutes driving distance? 14:31:21 Xach: It worked for me with saved core... as long as I didn't specify my own init function 14:31:26 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 14:31:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:43 quazimodo: how to summarize..... 14:31:48 *Xach* would be up for a reykjavik lisp conference 14:31:52 ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has joined #lisp 14:31:56 p_l: d'oh 14:31:58 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-kiupcdtlqigdjczp] has joined #lisp 14:31:59 Zhivago: what implementations don't dump images? 14:32:00 hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:10 dto: I probably could get hold of a PS3 controller and cable. 14:32:11 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 14:32:12 dto: those games can't be bringing you an income 14:32:13 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 14:32:30 Neronus [christian@heraklit.ayous.org] has joined #lisp 14:32:46 mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:32:51 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:57 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:33:36 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:38 quazimodo: i do what could be considered fairly low-level consulting work as an independent contractor. some of it is stuff like making small websites for bands/musicians, or helping with recording and/or editing stuff, 14:34:21 quazimodo: i have also done some work training a group of employees at a publishing company in the use of emacs and git and helping them set up a document workflow for their publishing system 14:34:30 its very diverse which is why it's a pain to summarize. 14:34:38 madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:47 i can't just say "i make next generation web apps that cause awesome tablet UXperiences" 14:34:59 dto: you could just say "I freelance" 14:35:08 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:42 freelance is a really broad term ... anyway, never mind. 14:36:41 exactly :D 14:36:43 Odin-: it should work fine with a ps3 pad, i tested it here 14:37:02 Odin-: you will have to swap the two right-stick axis numbers in the config screen 14:37:24 also you have to press the PS button to turn on the analog sticks as with many pads. hopefully that doesn't turn on your ps3 in the room 14:38:29 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:39:09 quazimodo: what will your application do? 14:39:31 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:39:37 dto: Won't be one. Those things are EXPENSIVE. 8) 14:39:41 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:26 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 14:41:47 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.242.138] has joined #lisp 14:42:18 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 14:44:31 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.242.138] has quit [Client Quit] 14:44:35 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:33 quazimodo: it would be cool to monetize the actual games at some point but that's very hard. the market is flush with independent games and there are so many portals competing for attention to generate sales for a $1.99 game 14:46:05 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:46:09 Odin-: yeah but they seem to last and last, i've had my ps3 for like .. a long time 14:47:08 Xach: work flow organiser 14:47:19 dto: They do, but when it's a question of food for the month or one of those... :/ 14:47:21 an offtopic in #lisp , wow 14:47:26 *kilon* saves log 14:47:29 dto: long way to go, the game needs to have prettinees 14:47:46 kilon: off topic is good so long as questions are still answered 14:48:00 its how a channel becomes a *tear* community 14:48:11 kilon: dto is trying to convince people to try his lisp game. it's not offtopic 14:48:18 like in #unixhelp on efnet we never talk about unix 14:48:29 quazimodo: that sounds really useful 14:48:31 is it common lisp game or just lisp game ? 14:48:31 dlowe: im not even trying at the moment, just discussing it 14:48:38 i think i was the last person to ever ask a question about unix there 14:48:44 kilon: it's common lisp 14:48:55 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-89.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:49:07 but atm no one is asking lisp stuff, so.. whats wrong? 14:49:14 quazimodo: So it does help you with Unix: helps you not think about it. ;) 14:49:30 quazimodo: signal to noise ratio :) 14:49:31 well done, i can try and would love to , links ? 14:49:40 quazimodo: theres 392 people in here so the off-topic threshold is much lower. 14:49:42 Odin-: actually the guys there are super experienced so when i do ask i get excellent responses 14:49:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50:03 we did have a less pedantic channel called #lispcafe 14:50:13 quazimodo: just something to keep in mind, it can be worth making a side channel if a big discussion evolves 14:50:14 Is it used? 14:50:16 but no one ever talked there :) 14:50:23 Quite. 14:50:25 we decided pedantry suited us better. :) 14:50:28 hey i just joined it. 14:50:29 see 14:50:31 should be 14:50:31 redline6561: I think that's the case 14:50:34 #lisp 14:50:36 and #lisphelp 14:50:48 quazimodo: the power lies with YOU 14:51:13 *savant_* chortles 14:51:34 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:52:40 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:53:02 dlowe: is that a captain planet quote 14:53:33 sort of a metaquote 14:54:17 dto: you know you have almost helped me 14:54:28 #lisphelp is already a registered channel 14:54:48 quazimodo: :) 14:54:51 -!- am0c [~am0c@59.5.107.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:51 i'll be back in a few minutes. 14:54:58 i mena 14:55:03 now im stuck with 14:55:19 lisp+qt = fun OR lisp + opengl/sdl = fun 14:56:13 kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:07 basho__ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:00 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:06 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:16 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:58:47 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 14:59:11 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:00:27 superjudge_ [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 15:00:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-048.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:01:21 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:36 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:47 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:02:25 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:02:25 -!- superjudge_ is now known as superjudge 15:03:44 How about web stacks. Is postgresql-ccl-postmodern-hunchentoot-restas a reasonable solution? 15:04:00 chr: yes. 15:04:12 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:23 can somebody help with rcl? I get errors, using sbcl 64bit 15:04:31 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:38 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:45 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:05:55 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:06:19 I'm looking at my own code, and hating it. Any suggestions as to how to make it, erm... prettier? 15:06:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127768 15:06:48 loke: photoshop it 15:06:56 quazimodo: good point 15:07:05 quazimodo: dipshit answers unwelcome. 15:07:07 There is no photoshop on Linux though. I better try Gimp 15:07:13 *quazimodo* wonders why ide developers never let us include cute figures and nice colors etc in our code, for fun 15:07:27 quazimodo: Investigate APL 15:07:28 loke: ~{...~^...~} might help there. 15:08:01 -!- rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:24 loke: either format, as xach said, or if you want to iterate, use iterate:iter and first-iteration-p (or whatever it's called) 15:08:29 Xach: Hmm... I don't think it can handle the situation where the first argument has to be prefixed by ? and the rest with &. Also, the values should have URL-ENCODE called on them if they are non-nil 15:08:42 clintm [u1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-blxtbothqysxfjob] has joined #lisp 15:08:48 flip214: first-iteration doesn't work. It fails if the frst argument is nil 15:09:06 loke: That could have two phases; construction of the list of encoded arguments with nil-values filtered out, and, if that list is null, concatenation with the prefix. 15:09:16 loke: that works nicely with format's conditional and looping. 15:09:17 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 15:09:18 (the equivalent on LOOP is something like: for first = t then nil) 15:09:21 quazi: Just use ms-word as your ide. 15:09:22 loke: whats wrong with how it looks? 15:09:31 Zhivago: i learnt slime 15:09:47 quazimodo: Well, I don't like the WITH/SETQ pair 15:09:48 Sorry, if the list is NOT null. 15:09:53 quazi: I don't think that will solve your problem. 15:10:17 quazi: It doesn't even have comic sans. 15:10:25 actually its funny, the program i want to write is written already in elisp, except i cant go letting non emacs users download & learn it etc 15:10:46 Zhivago: hey you jest but aesthetics is an important topic 15:10:57 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11:26 emacs, for example, looks like crap and i like to use it less because of that 15:11:33 -!- borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:11:41 quazimodo: On a serious note, if you really want to do that nothing prevents you from using full Unicode in both symbols and comments 15:11:51 Unicode has all sorts of pretty characters 15:11:56 lol true eh 15:12:02 C-x 8 RET in emacs 15:12:15 -!- borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:15 M-x tetris 15:12:17 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:12:18 oh 15:12:36 M-x doctor RET is even funnier 15:12:46 (let (( (make-))) (play- )) 15:12:53 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-032.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:13:01 () => T 15:13:14 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 15:13:44 (defconstant  nil) if you want to be more mathematical 15:13:54 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120208012847]] 15:13:59 splittist [d59070a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.144.112.164] has joined #lisp 15:14:23 loke: for example, if you had an auxiliar function called prepare-query-arguments, you could do something like: (format nil "~A~@[?~{~A=~A~^&~}~]" url (prepare-query-arguments args)) 15:14:29 auxiliary, rahter 15:14:29 loke: :( i can't see why its not nice 15:14:33 andddd im back. 15:14:40 morning 15:14:40 quazimodo: It's because you don't know CL yet. 15:14:47 hi splittist 15:14:54 Xach: yeah I figured 15:15:03 quazimodo: Lurk a while and see how it goes. 15:15:26 ah yes compare them now and later to see why beauty etc 15:15:37 Xach: good point 15:15:54 loke: that's assuming (prepare-query-arguments "foo" nil) returns nil and (prepare-query-arguments "foo" "bar" "baz" nil "qux" 42) => ("foo" "bar" "qux" "42") or similar. 15:16:18 Xach: yep. that's an option 15:16:47 sloanr` [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 15:17:45 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:18:03 quazimodo: re emacs looks: after turning off the tool bar and menu bar and inhibiting the start up screen, the two lines that it takes up outside of your buffers aren't so bad 15:18:33 Vivitron: yeah but it always has that old style motif feel to me 15:18:48 not the new style nom nom pastel colors + sexy flat tab buttons of today 15:18:52 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:19:13 don't get me wrong, its an -=unbelievable=- piece of software 15:19:27 i fully get that 15:19:46 quazimodo: install zenburn theme, and you get the pastel colors 15:20:50 jdz: cool, looking now 15:21:27 hrm it isnt in the color-theme libraries :? 15:21:28 :/ 15:22:03 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rzkwmxitwtvmneul] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:22:22 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 15:22:40 hhutch [~E78C8EE4B@static-74-109-0-164.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 -!- hhutch [~E78C8EE4B@static-74-109-0-164.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:24:42 quazimodo: my emacs is compiled against gtk 3 15:24:50 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:25:26 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:25:36 and it has nice, anti-aliased fonts. there's nothing old school about its looks imo. 15:26:47 quazimodo: here is what my gui looks like at the moment, but it's nowhere near ready for release. http://i.imgur.com/eBDJE.png 15:30:29 limetree: do you have a screenshot? 15:30:54 dto: has promise, is the widget toolkit yours or? 15:31:10 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:31:49 yep. 15:31:55 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:32:07 i'm going to do a beta release of my whole thing, probably in late 2012 15:33:34 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:38 quazimodo: no, i'm not at home, but if you google images for "emacs 24" most of what you get will not have that "motif" feel 15:33:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-032.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:59 except emacs 24 is not released yet 15:34:00 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:34:05 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:44 no... but it's easy to install 15:34:49 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:37:04 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:37:34 dto: it could push lisp forward a *lot* if you provide a really slick amazing gui that is completely cross platform 15:37:39 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-51.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:37:46 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 15:38:22 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:38:48 quazimodo: someday i hope. i'm building it as a visual programming system modeled along the lines of MIT Scratch and subsequent/current research in that vein. 15:39:48 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 15:40:05 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 15:40:42 hello. what is popen equivalent for lisp? (for sbcl if there's nothing portable) 15:40:46 i hope that if i can make it easy to wrap other lisp functionality with fun GUI blocks and create custom GUIs, it could be really useful to create application mash-ups where different blocks are from different applications. I hate the pernicious "app" model where everything that you do is constricted to one single full screen app running at a time and where you dont have access to your "data" separately from the app. 15:40:47 argh 15:40:56 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:05 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:41:10 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:41:12 |SLB| [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 15:41:12 good vision dto 15:41:12 tfb [~tfb@92.40.167.13.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:41:13 -!- |SLB| is now known as [SLB] 15:41:21 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:41:25 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:27 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:41:48 OK, I'm having a problem with Drakma... When I try to fetch a URL, say "http://foo/bar?a=x%26y", it will actually try to do some magic re-encoding of the argument, making the last part into "...x%2526y" 15:41:56 If MAPCAN builds its result with NCONC, and NCONC requires all but the last argument to be a list, why does this not create an error? 15:41:58 (mapcan #'identity (list 1 2 3)) 15:42:18 frx: I googled and saw this: https://github.com/archimag/cl-popen 15:42:19 loke: I have your answer... one sec 15:42:23 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@cpe-67-246-36-87.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:29 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@cpe-67-246-36-87.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:42:29 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 15:42:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-51.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:46 (puri:*strict-parse* nil) 15:42:48 loke: pass the parameters in :parameters to avoid that. 15:42:50 tomodo: i think computer experiences should be more like Emacs and/or Symbolics Genera----all functionality and data interconnectable with no boundaries except those established willingly by the user----apps distort the software market because you have your FoobleCompany that wants to monetize FoobleApp and has to play nice with Apple or Google so that their app isn't yanked 15:42:51 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128138003.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 15:42:54 loke: I think that's what you need. 15:43:00 -!- antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:43:28 -!- emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:28 -!- anthracite [anthracite@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:eaaa] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:42 Xach: right. but what if I don't want that? (there are a few reasons, already-written code (lots of it) is one, another is that the URL-fetching part separated out) 15:43:58 Is there no way of telling Drakma to just stop messing with the url? 15:44:00 -!- kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:00 -!- vonn [vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:00 -!- PfhatHome [PfhorSlaye@cpe-76-94-20-207.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:00 -!- vimja [~kyle@cayce.dropsonde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:00 -!- _3b___ [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-208-87.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:09 (after all, it doesn't do the right thing anyway) 15:44:10 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:44:13 vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:17 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:21 loke: Dunno. I rewrote my code. 15:44:22 PfhatHome [PfhorSlaye@cpe-76-94-20-207.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:32 -!- clintm [u1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-blxtbothqysxfjob] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:32 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:32 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:32 -!- CrazyEddy [~strabotom@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:32 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:32 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:32 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:33 Drakma list is usually helpful. 15:44:33 Xach: OK, good to know 15:44:35 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:44:41 brown```` [user@nat/google/x-dqoshagxtnrvkscz] has joined #lisp 15:44:46 Xach: I'll just start looking at the Drakma code before I do that 15:44:48 Looks like my question disappeared.... 15:44:49 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:44:50 totzeit1 [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:52 tomodo: my hope is that in 5 years we will have a cross platform GUI wrapping lots of lisp functionality on top of a nice linux base and convince everyone on earth to replace whatever runs on their tablet/phone/pc with it, but of course thatll neve happen :) 15:44:57 (mapcan #'identity (list 1 2 3)) 15:45:04 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:04 -!- brown``` [user@nat/google/x-ftukuubyilborhmt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:04 -!- sbryant [~freenode@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:04 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:06 kaol [kaol@piperka.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:07 jmckitrick: SBCL? implementation artifact. 15:45:10 clintm [u1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dpantidpcrnjlkyl] has joined #lisp 15:45:11 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:15 vimja [~kyle@cayce.dropsonde.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:16 -!- Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:20 Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has joined #lisp 15:45:21 Why doesn't that create an error, since the arguments are not all lists? 15:45:25 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 15:45:26 pkhuong: Ah, ok. 15:45:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-208-87.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 _3b___ [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 I'll try a different lisp and see what happens. 15:45:36 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:38 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 15:45:39 myrkraverk [~johann@157-157-140-89.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 15:45:39 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@157-157-140-89.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Changing host] 15:45:39 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 15:45:45 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 15:45:49 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has joined #lisp 15:45:54 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:08 -!- jasom_ [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:46:08 -!- ineiros_ [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:46:12 sbryant [~freenode@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:46:15 emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has joined #lisp 15:46:18 jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:19 ineiros_ [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 15:46:31 antifuchs [foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:37 -!- sloanr` [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has left #lisp 15:46:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.167.13.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: gone] 15:47:17 loke: if it's encoding the url you pass, why not just send & instead of %26? 15:47:18 Xach: i don't know if you care, but i've put Brian's Brain code on github (https://github.com/jdz/brians-brain) 15:47:27 anthracite [anthracite@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:eaaa] has joined #lisp 15:47:36 limetree: because it doesn't 15:47:56 -!- splittist [d59070a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.144.112.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:48:04 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:48:13 limetree: The escaping behaviour is above me, it's really bizarre. So % signs get escaped, but only if they are actually valid sequences 15:48:34 CrazyEddy [~nonpunish@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:48:34 huh. 15:48:51 So, %26 becomes %2526, but %xy gives a parse error(!) 15:48:52 -!- clintm [u1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dpantidpcrnjlkyl] has left #lisp 15:49:01 jdz: cool 15:49:09 jdz: can't wait for the next part in the series 15:49:30 Xach: what would you like tho read in the next part? 15:49:39 Whatever you want! The previous stuff was great. 15:49:55 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-400921.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:50:00 benny` [~benny@i577A2099.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:50:04 Xach: hehe 15:50:17 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:20 pkhuong: Clozure does the same thing. 15:53:10 -!- benny` is now known as benny 15:53:19 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:53:57 jmckitrick: coincidence 15:54:34 So according to the spec, it should generate an error? 15:55:04 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:55:31 jmckitrick: according to which part of the spec? 15:55:50 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:56:08 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:56:19 Aha. Lispworks gives an error! 15:56:19 dto: i like where you are taking that, let me know how it goes 15:57:19 found it 15:57:23 jdz: Arguments and Values: 15:57:25 list---each but the last must be a list 15:57:29 for NCONC 15:57:33 quazimodo: hopefully taking it to a world in which technology is not dominated by shit advertising companies 15:58:55 Xach: A Reykjavik lisp conference would be cool indeed. 15:59:35 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:00:33 LOL my hello world sbcl program is 31 mb!!! 16:00:43 why is my binary 31mb!? 16:00:45 In request.lisp is where the mess happens: 16:00:45 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127770 16:00:50 quazimodo: your hello world program has an embedded compiler 16:00:55 that's because your hello world will also execute arbitrary lisp expressions 16:01:03 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-cclazyhfcvxlxrku] has joined #lisp 16:01:08 Turns out, that even if I pass a prefabricated PURI:URI to Drakma, it sill messes with the request string 16:01:24 quazimodo: dumped sbcl binaries include the whole lisp runtime 16:01:25 quazimodo: you'll find that figure doesn't change very much, even on big projects 16:01:34 It really should only do that when I pass in parameters using the :parameters argument 16:01:56 quazimodo: because your hello world program is awesome. as you're combining the lisp runtime with it, it's equivalent in the java world to distributing the complete JDK /and/ your application! 16:01:56 bsamograd: no way to compile it like gcc would? 16:02:08 quazimodo: no 16:02:10 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:02:21 quazimodo: you could do something of the likes with ecl, it'll still be bigger than what you expect, but it should be reasonable 16:02:30 quazimodo: why would you? How often is 31 MB a problem? 16:02:44 (cell phone apps) 16:02:56 (not that you're making cell phone apps with sbcl) 16:02:57 loke: its not really that reasonable 16:03:01 loke: smartphones, or shell scripts (disk isn't that fast either) 16:03:03 loke: i'm not saying that there is no problem, but your solution looks fishy as well 16:03:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:14 H4ns: in what way? 16:03:38 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:42 loke: unless i'm misreading, the append will never happen. 16:03:54 (i.e. won't ever append anything to dissect-query) 16:03:55 All I'm really doing is preventing a rewrite and reparse of the request string if I don't give a parameter list (the parsing is broken anyway) 16:03:55 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 16:04:13 madnificent: ecl will compile to native machine language and have no interpreter?? 16:04:18 ah yes. When I add my check of parameters-used-p I can remove the second call 16:04:29 quazimodo SBCL compiles to native machine language with no interpreter by default 16:04:30 quazimodo: not completely, but it will be smaller 16:04:50 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-89.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:05:00 quazimodo: commercial implementations have various special minimalization routines that strip unneeded code 16:05:26 kennyd: i was just told literally moments ago that sbcl includes an interpreter in with my hello world program that is 31mb 16:05:38 quazimodo you were told it includes a compiler 16:05:39 quazimodo: that's *compiler* and *runtime* 16:05:40 quazimodo: not exactly. i think it doesn't contain all the support you normally get by default. and thus it's smaller. ECL converts to C and compiles that, but the result is slower than what SBCL does. 16:06:17 quazimodo: interpreter isn't exactly correct, it's a compiler. when you type something in the repl, it'll be compiled and then ran. that's somewhat different from an interpreter, which doesn't include the compilation step. 16:06:29 ok 16:06:35 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120208060813]] 16:06:41 its obviously time for me to sleep 16:06:47 my brain is wet sponge cake 16:07:04 madnificent: there are different interpreters, namely bytecode ones. so it is possible that the expressino is first compiled, and then interpreted. 16:07:17 don't confuse compiler available at runtime with interpretation. SBCL still compiles to machine code, as you can see with (disassemble 'function) 16:07:32 madnificent: do you mean slower during compile time, or a slower program in runtime 16:08:04 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-djwejzwaqhlvqmvo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:26 quazimodo: this is what you'll like to see, i guess: http://blog.s21g.com/articles/1649 16:09:30 quazimodo: it's slower at runtime 16:10:49 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:11:30 jdz: i know they exist. i'm trying to formulate it in a way that #lisp generally accepts (even though it's essentially not completely correct) and that won't make quazimodo's head explode. it's not trivially simple to define, as different implementations may make different choices. furthermore, it seems that lispers tend to dislike that some people assume lisp is an interpreted language. 16:12:54 madnificent: and i'm not a great fan of altering the reality when explaining things 16:13:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:13:43 madnificent: if you'd skip the last part of the last sentence, it would be OK 16:13:45 pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.114] has joined #lisp 16:13:59 madnificent: when explaining the compilation vs. interpretation\ 16:14:09 jdz: then you must hate introductions in books and absolutely despise our education system. including most of what you know. face it, that's the way we tend to learn things: make an abstraction first, then try to understand it more in depth. 16:14:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:24 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:42 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 16:15:04 madnificent: our education system is fucked up beyond repair, that's true. 16:15:21 quazimodo: i've quickly compiled a hello-world example in ecl and it seems to end at 44K here (64 bit) 16:15:23 loke: anyway, if you care, please send a pull request on github 16:15:27 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:15:39 *madnificent* isn't a computer 16:15:43 H4ns: I would. If I had the faintest idea how git works :-) 16:15:46 I'm a hg person 16:15:47 madnificent: cool, that looks like an option 16:16:10 if ecl compiles to linux, windows and os x im set 16:16:12 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:18 madnificent I guess it disables #'compile and #'load functions, any other? 16:16:25 quazimodo: could you explain what you're trying to do exactly? i remember thinking that it was really really bad at first. then once i learned there was a way out, then i figured out that such a size really doesn't matter all that much. 16:16:53 loke: well, it is never too late to learn the basics. 16:16:56 frx: ECL has both bytecode compiler/interpreter and a bytecode->C system 16:17:01 frx: sorry, i'm not an expert. i've only used it in practice, never tried it. 16:17:17 H4ns: well, apparently the official repository is on trac 16:17:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.59.59] has joined #lisp 16:17:25 "The current development version of Drakma can be found at http://bknr.net/trac/browser/trunk/thirdparty. This is the one to send patches against." 16:17:25 frx: and the compiler (even the bytecode one) is autoloaded on first use of #'compile 16:17:25 p_l: is the bytecode interpreter included in the 44k? because that's tiny. 16:17:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.59.59] has quit [Changing host] 16:17:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:17:56 loke: no, the official development repository is https://github.com/edicl/drakma 16:18:04 loke: trust me, i am the maintainer. 16:18:06 madnificent: it's a *simple* compiler,afaik, but on my machine it's autoloaded from a separate file 16:18:09 H4ns: then the web page should be updated 16:18:16 loke: true 16:18:35 madnificent: making a program for people to keep track of their projects 16:18:42 its not sophisticate 16:18:44 loke: in fact, it already is updated in the development repository. 16:18:52 p_l: so the binary that i created is likely not a standalone one? if that's the case, then quasimodo should be informed. 16:19:07 still, once ive bundled in the qt (or opengl sdl) libraries ... i dno how big its getting 16:19:13 quazimodo: so, how is 30 megs an issue in that case? :) it takes a minute to download or so. 16:19:44 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 16:19:52 30 megs takes 2 seconds to download... WHat kind of crap Internet connection do you have? :-) 16:19:59 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-44.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:01 quazimodo: in terms of developer support (error messages and the likes) it could be interesting to develop on sbcl, then package/compile in ecl. 16:20:16 madnificent: maybe 16:20:24 loke: haha, you're so funny. 16:20:45 loke: 48kbit/s is pretty common these days 16:20:49 jdz: No, not funny at all. I think the word you'r elooking for it "showoff" 16:20:51 -!- pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.114] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:21:01 quazimodo: i think there's an outstanding but to write a treeshaker that would greatly reduce the size of executables, but for now, there isn't one 16:21:09 outstanding bug i mean 16:21:17 when I show off, I show off with 1.1GBit/s internet connections ;) 16:21:21 ASau` [~user@95-28-177-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:21:32 bsamograd: treeshaker? no idea what it is 16:21:36 loke: https://twitter.com/#!/jdzerins/status/133191438358953984 16:21:38 bsamograd: it was easier to enable core compression (: 16:21:54 pkhuong: yes, that would probably be way easier 16:22:02 jdz: woah :-) 16:22:10 i think the last executable i did with sbcl was around 45 megs 16:22:21 jdz: Let me guess: You hate your ISP? 16:22:37 loke: that's such an understatement 16:22:41 quazimodo: it removes all functionality from the image, which you don't use in your application. like the compiler. 16:22:58 madnificent: makes sense 16:23:09 quazimodo: a tree shakes shakes the leaves off of the runtime code to only contain what is actually needed by your executable. didn't use #'compile, then most of the compiler probably isn't in the executable 16:23:14 bsamograd: it's in the mainline now. I got ~70% compression on x86-64 and a bit less on x86. 16:23:15 bsamograd: it got bigger on 64bit, but it's sane for things that aren't short scripts. at least, i find it sane. 16:23:22 jdz: http://www.speedtest.net/result/1772803926.png 16:23:24 right now 16:23:44 im surprised tbh 16:23:45 loke: gz :) 16:24:03 madnificent: it wouldn't really work for small embedded systems, but even medium sized ones have 128M+ on them these days 16:24:16 the other languages i've used have given me an abundance of choices for nearly everything 16:24:22 the lisp landscape looks so barren :( 16:24:32 bsamograd: yeah, that's where ecl and clisp shine. 16:24:33 (relatively) 16:24:54 it used to be people complained there were too many options to choose from. 16:25:07 quazimodo: that means that we need more users, like you, who will create connections to the tools you need 16:25:08 quazimodo: you may want to actually learn lisp before making judgements. 16:25:16 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-183-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:25:25 H4ns: you said it had been fixed in the git version of drakma? 16:25:34 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:25:41 H4ns: the language is one thing (which i am strongly drawn to), i mean in terms of libraries and toolkits 16:25:43 pkhuong: you work on SBCL develment right? 16:25:45 loke: the documentation bug that you've pointed out. 16:26:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:26:04 bsamograd: from time to time. 16:26:13 pkhuong: i sent an email to nikodemus last week asking if he had anything to add regarding a bug I found that i would like to work on but he seems to be awol 16:26:13 Aha :-) 16:26:32 pick c++ and you have a total abundance of choices, atm i can't find a workable native common lisp gui that I can include in my project, which will work wherever lisp works, im resorting to either qt or opengl 16:26:50 bsamograd: I like to use launchpad for that. 16:27:02 bsamograd: updated launchpad as well but no comments...i guess i could start working on it but i just wanted to make sure it wasn't a completely stagnant request that would be a waste of time 16:27:02 quazimodo: maybe common lisp is just not the right language for you. 16:27:03 quazimodo: have you not heard? the portable gui nowadays is the browser. 16:27:07 H4ns: also i said looks, not is, who knows 16:27:20 I don't see the issue with using Qt from CL. 16:27:22 *kanru* wonders back when the computers had only a few thousands words of memory, how could they implement CL on it.. 16:27:34 kanru: they couldn't 16:27:36 oops, was talking to myself :) 16:27:41 that was meant for pkhuong 16:27:42 OK, so can you give me a pointer as to where I should obtain the necessary skillset to be able to push a suggested fix? (I have one that simply disables the url reqwriting if :PRESERVE-URI is passed non-nil. that will keep backwards compatibity) 16:27:48 H4ns: perhaps your attitude is a barrier to more people using this tool, who knows 16:27:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:28:06 kanru: crazy swapping, compact code, etc. etc. 16:28:10 quazimodo: I think you might be giving H4ns a bit too much credit here :-) 16:28:11 quazimodo: perhaps you should just get some sleep. 16:28:21 mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:25 pkhuong: it was just a wishlist bug on updating the build system a bit so I thought i could handle it...have a lot of experience with that 16:28:34 loke: did you actually try "git introductions"? 16:28:43 loke: first step, get a github account 16:28:47 loke: erm, i meant the google thing 16:28:57 common lisp cann't do GUIs 16:29:03 quazimodo 16:29:13 H4ns: Nope. I'll do that. Please excuse me, I'm usually the one who answers with RTFM-like replies 16:30:09 tomodo: lack of low level hardware stuff? 16:30:26 -!- totzeit1 [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:30:29 http://common-lisp.net/project/cello/ 16:30:29 we are not sure what the reason is 16:30:40 these guys are trying?? 16:30:44 quazimodo: no, people had more interesting stuff to do than implement a general-purpose GUI library ;) 16:30:47 who's we? 16:31:09 Are "we" using a different definition of "can't" than the one I'm used to? 16:31:17 quazimodo: well there is mclim 16:31:17 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:19 i remember when i tried using weblocks, i had a bunch of patches and stuff. but then i could not find a way how to properly manage the branch in hg, and then i got mad at hg for not supporting even basic stuff like rebasing and then i dropped it altogether 16:31:46 bsamograd: i read the spec, something put me off but i can't remember what. Is the cello project dead ? 16:31:50 quazimodo: it looks a bit dated but it's supposedly really interesting. it's a clone of the UI library from one of the lisp machines 16:31:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:12 quazimodo: can't say i've heard of the cello project so i can't say 16:33:48 bsamograd: yeah... lisp is going to need a clear path from code to gui if its ever going to penetrate -any- market. Obviously with web2 stuff coming out now its had a *huge* boost up 16:34:02 by -any- i mean -some- 16:34:03 haha 16:34:05 ok bed time 16:34:08 you guys kick ass! 16:34:14 totzeit1 [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:15 quazimodo: not if you're doing server side apps 16:34:15 thanks 16:34:40 bsamograd: thats what im mostly going to be doing, this 1 app sadly cant easily be done that way 16:34:40 quazimodo: and it's got web guis down with the various html generating DSLs and parenscript 16:34:58 needs native stuff- 16:35:02 bsamograd: and a popular web server called hunchentoot 16:35:07 What's wrong with CommonQt? 16:35:16 quazimodo: bit the bullet and just use Xlib :) 16:35:26 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:27 bsamograd: no xlib on windows 16:35:43 whast the point of an interpreted language if its not gonna gui easily cross platform 16:35:43 quazimodo: install an xserver with your app 16:35:49 bsamograd: what's windows? 16:35:52 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:36:01 oh, sorry, that was for quazimodo 16:36:06 jdz: i don't know, never heard of it :-) 16:36:14 quazimodo: no clue what interpreted language you're talking about. 16:36:23 pkhuong: im considering either commonqt or opengl/sdl 16:36:29 jdz: or i might say, something that i read my email on at work because they force me to use outlook 16:36:30 jdz: It's what you poke your head out of to see weather 16:36:34 pkhuong: blah you know what i mean! 16:36:36 oh, i seem to remember, is it that OS used for installing games only? 16:36:48 does ltk work on windows? 16:36:48 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:36:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:55 jdz: no its the one that is on the vast majority of user machines 16:36:55 jdz: oh, you mean wintendo! 16:36:57 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:37:11 quazimodo: oh, that's the thing that powers solitaire, then? 16:37:17 yup 16:37:20 jdz: and minesweeper 16:37:21 quazimodo: no, I don't understand what you mean. Neither do I understand how you can say that it's impossible to develop native GUIs when you know that CommonQt exists. 16:37:52 pkhuong: maybe he wants to develop a commercial app and not pay the license fees for qt? 16:39:11 bsamograd: ah, that's a new requirement. I wonder what free native toolkit are around. 16:39:27 does mclim run on windows? 16:39:33 where does TK run? 16:39:56 bsamograd: that'd be sweet. it could -in theory- integrate. 16:39:58 it runs on X. 16:40:01 pkhuong: i didnt say impossible, its just not that direct, seeing how qt is this c++ thing 16:40:01 I'm pretty sure Qt is LGPL now, and can be used for commercial applications without license fee 16:40:12 quazimodo: I don't follow. 16:40:13 frx: it has to be LLGPL 16:40:16 frx: i think 16:40:16 thugh i guess if you are using something that is so popular it would help 16:40:26 yeah its been lgpl'd 16:40:35 you dynamically link and off ya go 16:40:35 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:47 quazimodo: in what language do you think the native windows toolkit is written? 16:41:50 quazimodo: lisp and gpl don't work together nicely. so you'll need LLGPL instead afaict. 16:42:21 madnificent: as far as i know, only gpl works together nicely with gpl 16:42:23 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:52 jdz: <3 MIT 16:43:11 LGPL is fine for external dynamic libs, though 16:43:22 Certain technical features make GPL'd Lisp all but impossible to deal with. 16:43:52 not if you're writing code for the FSF 16:43:57 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-131-253.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:09 well, after reading the clisp/readline discussion with RMS i'm steering clear of GPL 16:44:36 it's a pity that McCLIM is GPL 16:44:43 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:00 he thinks software should be free...you want to use GPL software you have to release your software as GPL 16:45:03 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 16:45:11 Not ... quite. 16:45:11 Good morning all. 16:45:13 if you don't like it, don't use it, which you said you were 16:45:25 weren't i mean 16:45:31 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:33 Is MAKE-INSTANCE defined to work (or to not work) on condition classes? 16:46:02 Odin-: by use, i mean use the GPL software in your software 16:46:27 quazimodo: does ltk have what you want? http://cliki.net/Ltk i found it to be simple. 16:46:28 nyef: I'm fairly certain that conditions are not guaranteed to be clos classes. 16:46:56 nyef: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/e_cnd.htm "make-condition, not make-instance, must be used..." 16:47:03 nyef: nope, undefined, but a happy accident for us. 16:47:18 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 16:47:20 H4ns: woohoo. I did it :-) 16:47:22 bsamograd: and if you want to make software that plays nicely with GPL software you also have to release your software as GPL 16:47:23 undefined? Isn't 'must' pretty explicit? 16:47:32 jdz: is that not what i said? 16:47:33 Okay, so my next question is, in SBCL, should make-instance work for condition classes? 16:47:41 jdz: Define 'play nice'. 16:47:45 nyef: no 16:47:51 nyef: explictly forbidden, I think 16:48:17 nyef: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLHS/Body/e_cnd.htm 16:48:29 jdz: if you incorporate code that is licensed under the GPL into your own code, your code must be licensed under the GPL, same for LGPL and AGPL 16:48:32 bsamograd, Odin-: http://clisp.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clisp/clisp/doc/Why-CLISP-is-under-GPL 16:48:34 *sykopomp* sometimes wonders if he's just /ignored. 16:48:39 this will be useful, in case SBCL ever wants to replace CLOS with Flavors as its native object system. 16:48:45 dlowe: No, that's forbidden for conforming code. 16:48:51 nyef: ok, yes. 16:48:53 jdz: they linked to a GPL library, therefore they must license they're code as GPL, that's why the LGPL wasa created 16:48:59 madnificent: ill read about it, never used tk so i've no idea :D 16:49:00 jdz: That's not "playing nice", that's "basing your product on GPL code". 16:49:07 yeah, right 16:49:08 sykopomp: i read you 16:49:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:49:15 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:18 nyef: it would be helpful if it were at least a warning 16:49:23 i don't buy that, and avoid GPL; works fine for me. 16:49:47 clisp is not based on readline, readline is a convenience for users. 16:49:54 some people want the code they write to only be used in free software and thus use the GPL, that's what it was designed for 16:50:00 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 16:50:14 jdz: lots of people take gpl'd php code, modify it then add their own proprietary (and crucial) ajax ontop and sell it 16:50:14 nothing new is going to be said about the GPL. 16:50:30 lots of joomla modules are being made like that 16:50:30 leoncame` [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:50:42 dlowe: indeed. 16:50:52 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:51:28 quazimodo: read the argumentation RMS used to get CLISP under the GPL. the GPL is far too complex for us to understand and the view of the FSF is not exactly one that is guaranteed to work in the long run. but you're free to use the GPL, i won't care. 16:51:38 quazimodo: which is allowed in GPL2 but disallowed in GPL3 16:51:53 loke: the patch looks good, but where is the documentation update? 16:52:27 So, what I've run into is that MAKE-INSTANCE for a condition class works, but it doesn't work if you redefine the condition to add slots with new initargs. 16:52:30 i like the bsd and mit style licenses 16:52:32 free is free 16:52:32 H4ns: nowhere :-) 16:52:38 H4ns: OK, I'll write something 16:52:43 though, i can see how gpl really did kick ass 16:53:05 im waiting for gpl4 to make webapps release their code if they offer a service based on gpl'd code 16:53:15 quazimodo: AGPL, it already exists 16:53:17 loke: thanks! basically, the docstring needs to be copied over. 16:53:22 quazimodo: that's Affero GPL 16:53:23 loke: i appreciate it 16:53:28 oh please. 16:53:29 -!- leoncamel [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:50 can you take the licensing discussion to #hobby-lawyers or something? 16:54:06 oh my god... you are like the grumpiest person here 16:54:13 quazimodo: so? 16:54:32 ignore it, no one is asking lisp questions, no one is getting hurt and the people who form the channel are having a chat 16:54:35 :/ 16:54:43 whats the big deal? 16:55:02 Please. There are other places for random chat. 16:55:02 quazimodo: other people have you on ignore; unfortunately, people still answer. I prefer silence to noise, and so do many other #lispers. 16:55:11 quazimodo: I'm no one? 16:55:12 because sometimes it's too much. Even if I have tendency for OT, I agree with that. 16:55:14 sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:26 nyef: just saw, my bad :( 16:55:42 okies well im off 16:55:45 thanks all :D 16:56:08 ...there used to be much grumpier people here. 16:57:38 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:57 H4ns: do you want american or english spelling? 16:58:07 loke: american, i think 16:59:21 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:00:03 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:00:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:01:00 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-021.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:01:56 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:35 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:22 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:04:35 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:50 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:07:51 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 17:09:49 How do I make runtime compilation warnings? 17:09:57 sorry, not runtime 17:10:01 but compilation warnings 17:11:05 I have to use a macro, then, and just print the warning. I guess 17:11:19 (defmacro foo (&body body) (warn "you used foo") `(progn ,@body)) 17:11:35 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:03 You can probably just use EVAL-WHEN if you're at toplevel. 17:12:10 aha.. ofcourse 17:12:16 I totaly forgot. 17:12:38 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:14:37 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:14:51 H4ns: OK, committed 17:15:20 H4ns: I presume that I don't have to do anything further when adding more commits to the pull request? You should see the two extra committs in there? 17:15:34 loke: checkiing 17:15:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:15:50 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 17:16:07 loke: they're in the pull request ok. let me check 17:16:43 merged, thanks! 17:16:49 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-110-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:26 wooho. Now CL-GDATA works :-) 17:17:37 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:19:04 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-179-77.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:19:57 gdata? 17:20:07 Ralith: Google GData API 17:20:09 o 17:20:12 neat 17:20:37 Ralith: I think so at least, but I'm biased 17:22:18 pnq [~nick@ACA2A262.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-021.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:24:50 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has joined #lisp 17:25:54 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-036.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:26:06 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-036.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:29:07 -!- vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:29:58 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 17:32:28 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.60] has joined #lisp 17:33:08 -!- eMBee 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[~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 18:10:59 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 18:11:22 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:58 m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.82] has joined #lisp 18:12:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:13:04 is commonqt working reasonably well on windows? 18:14:59 vervic_ [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:15:04 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has joined #lisp 18:15:23 -!- vervic_ [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has left #lisp 18:15:41 -!- Guest54665 [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- daedric_ [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1000:21:baac:6fff:fe99:7ada] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.147.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:41 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:42 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:42 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:42 -!- erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:42 -!- lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:42 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:15:55 aib [kvirc@unaffiliated/aib42] has joined #lisp 18:18:40 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:41 I had heard that it loads. I have no idea if it is useful. 18:19:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:02 YokYok_ [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-233-241.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:20:10 -!- Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: Light travels faster then sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak] 18:20:11 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20:46 em__ [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.147.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 18:22:37 eno_ [~eno@70.137.133.209] has joined #lisp 18:23:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:23:28 jasom_ [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:47 surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 18:24:17 I've seen screenshots of it being used, though iirc with LW 18:24:18 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 18:25:00 frx: should work well once you manage to build all the libraries 18:25:21 coyo 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has joined #lisp 18:31:32 basho__ [~basho@static.76.144.4.46.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 ghoti- [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 18:32:08 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:32:18 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:05 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-400921.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:31 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 18:33:54 -!- Buglouse_ is now known as Buglouse 18:34:24 -!- Buglouse is now known as Guest9185 18:34:52 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 18:35:26 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:35:47 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-321140.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:04 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.24.21] has joined #lisp 18:36:44 _schulte1 [~eschulte@64.106.20.108] has joined #lisp 18:37:13 clx contains opengl bindings...are they usable? are there any other bindings that are reccomended? 18:37:48 clx has glx bindings 18:38:05 just glx? 18:38:05 cl-opengl does direct rendering 18:38:07 bsamograd: use cl-opengl. 18:38:20 ok, i guess i looked at the clx code incorrectly 18:38:25 i get it now 18:38:26 or use ECL and just call the C functions. :) 18:38:37 hefner: true 18:38:50 are the bindings stable? 18:39:06 like usable without any work around magic 18:39:08 cl-opengl seemed to work great, what little I've used it. 18:39:16 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:39:26 ok, i'll look into it 18:39:29 thanks 18:39:59 -!- austinh [~austin@c-24-21-49-222.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:14 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-206-130.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:41:28 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 -!- Guest9185 is now known as Buglouse 18:42:54 bjonnh 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[~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:20:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:20:51 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:06 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-029.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:21:22 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-89.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:23:06 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:23:10 loke: is cl-oauth using oauth2 capapble? 19:23:28 er is cl-gdata oauth2 capapble? 19:27:09 maxm---- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:37 -!- maxm--- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:19 -!- weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:44 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:20 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 19:33:23 mon_key: their homepage stated it wasn't yet but it also said it shouldn't be too hard to extend 19:33:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@89.249.82.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:02 madnificent: just trying to understand how cl-gdata is authenticating... 19:35:10 mon_key: i don't know more, i just checked their google code page 19:35:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-029.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:49 madnificent: thanks (: 19:35:50 -!- Guest1780 [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Quit: #WeeChat #Mises #emacs] 19:36:03 mon_key: sorry, i was wrong. it's here http://source.dhsdevelopments.com/home/cl-gdata 19:36:47 Cosman24` [~user@D-173-250-161-62.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 19:37:26 madnificent: I was looking at this: http://code.google.com/p/cl-gdata/ 19:37:50 Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 19:37:51 mon_key: that's where i assumed i read it, but i checked my history because i recalled there was something odd with it. 19:38:05 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: quit] 19:38:20 mon_key: if it's trivial to get running, i wouldn't mind to see a lisppaste as an example. but if it's much work from your end, you don't need to do it. i'm just curious 19:38:29 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-137-194.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:37 -!- Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:07 weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #lisp 19:39:11 -!- Cosman24` is now known as Cosman246 19:39:20 Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 19:39:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:39:42 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-233-68.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:02 -!- Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Client Quit] 19:41:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:49 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 19:41:50 Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 19:42:35 madnificent: i doubt it would be trivial for me :( 19:43:42 -!- Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Client Quit] 19:44:34 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-142-220.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:45:16 ugh. got bitten by drakma's default external encoding. it's still in latin-1 time :/ 19:45:28 i wonder if it should be changed to utf-8? 19:45:50 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 19:47:10 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-64-243.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:47:28 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:56 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-030.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:51:16 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 19:52:08 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #lisp 19:54:49 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:55:35 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:29 bjonnh [~bjonnh@bdn33-2-89-86-25-253.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:57:57 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:59:22 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:24 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:04:13 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:34 does it depend on the default locale of the machine? 20:07:36 theorinf [4e0d0dc7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.13.13.199] has joined #lisp 20:08:14 I need a channel to ask a question about theoretical computer science and context free languages 20:09:41 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:01 -!- Cristi_ [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:11:39 Fade: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/charset.html#h-5.2.2 20:12:32 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:12:46 sure but by what mechanism does drakma set it? 20:13:16 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-174-62-210-182.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:13:17 Fade: http://www.weitz.de/drakma/#*drakma-default-external-format* 20:13:47 ahh, asked and answered. 20:13:49 thanks. :) 20:15:09 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Quit: #WeeChat #Mises #emacs] 20:15:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:41 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 20:15:46 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:17:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:10 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:18 Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 20:23:52 -!- Buglouse_ [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:52 -!- Buglouse 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[~balthasar@host19-165-dynamic.55-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 20:34:01 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 20:34:53 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:40 -!- theorinf [4e0d0dc7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.13.13.199] has left #lisp 20:37:22 mensch [~mensch@c-174-62-210-182.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:53 -!- emma_ is now known as em 20:39:11 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:35 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:56 mon_key: google only wants oauth 2, right? 20:41:45 mon_key: if either cl-oauth supports version 2 now, or if google accepts version 1, then the bulk of the work has been done for you. 20:41:49 -!- Guest75069 [~root@li129-64.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:18 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:57 afaik google uses 2.0 20:43:25 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-163.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:28 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-187.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:50 -!- em is now known as emma 20:43:55 Guest75069 [~root@li129-64.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:06 madnificent: p_l: I'm still wrapping my head around it but this says that oauth_version defaults to 1.0 http://code.google.com/apis/youtube/2.0/developers_guide_protocol_oauth.html 20:44:17 It's not like OAuth 2.0 is hard to work with as a client. 20:44:28 -!- emma is now known as em 20:44:48 nyef: in the sense that writing a library like oauth should be simple? or should it be simple once the library is built? 20:44:48 nyef: afaik OAuth 1.0 was much harder :) 20:45:22 madnificent: 1.0 was iirc harder to implement and had some complex deployment strategies possible (not *required* for deployment, but possible) 20:45:30 madnificent: In the sense that the hard part is logging in, and after that you just pass an authorization header. 20:46:19 and logging in is basically handled by a web page, so that shouldn't be overly complex either 20:47:32 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@bdn33-2-89-86-25-253.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:48:58 Unless you're using the client credential flow, in which case it's even easier. 20:49:22 ok 20:49:26 -!- maxm---- is now known as maxm- 20:49:27 Or was that "resource owner credential"? Whichever. 20:49:27 *madnificent* should read up on openauth before having any sort of an argument here 20:49:52 am I an idiot, or (shared-initialize instance t) supposed to reset slots of INSTANCE with their :initforms? 20:49:58 madnificent: reason i was asking about cl-gdata support for oauth -- I don't get oauth at all :) 20:50:00 does not seem to happen on sbcl 20:50:12 Basically, there's one flow where you have the client post the user ID and password to the server directly rather than messing about with a web browser. 20:50:57 nyef: which I assume is what is wanted for interacting with the google-app API's from the repl 20:51:02 nyef: that'd be nicer for repl apps 20:51:25 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:27 The thing is, it's the server's choice as to which flows you get to use. 20:51:53 And for some google APIs (well, at least one), they're using ClientLogin instead of OAuth 2.0. 20:52:05 that being? 20:52:15 AC2DM springs immediately to mind. 20:53:00 nyef: ok. thanks 20:53:21 anyone wanna take a look? http://paste.lisp.org/display/127776 20:53:50 With ClientLogin, you basically post a user ID (email address), password, and service ID, and get back an error that doesn't conform to the documentation or an auth token. 20:53:52 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:55:34 maxm-: Look again: shared-initialize doesn't overwrite bound slots without an explicit initarg. 20:56:03 (And that's per CLHS.) 20:56:14 any idea what I could make into final year project that would justify "need" to go to ILC? :) 20:56:43 bjonnh [~bjonnh@ABordeaux-551-1-217-204.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:56:45 nyef: can you point sentence in clhs that says that? 20:56:48 p_l: A Japanese-to-polish natural language translator? 20:57:15 nyef: that would fit with local research themes, but I worry about deliverability :/ 20:57:19 says: Slot-names indicates which slots should be initialized according to their :initform forms if no initargs are provided for those slots. 20:57:20 maxm-: The page for SHARED-INITIALIZE, starting at "The system-supplied primary method behaves..." 20:57:59 ah doh, damn it 20:58:09 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128138003.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:16 I assume there is no way to reset instance slots to their initforms with a one-liner then? 20:58:24 coz thats what I'm obviously after 20:58:26 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:58:57 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:10 That'd be beyond my CLOS knowledge. 20:59:36 Then again, I'm not coming up with a scenario in which I'd want to... 20:59:58 reinitialize-instance 21:00:51 dlowe: no it has same problem, does not overwrite already bound slots 21:01:06 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:02:04 ... I think I'm about to create my first non-error condition class. 21:02:04 good reason to use default-initargs instead of initform 21:02:07 well, I'll just do it the dumb way then 21:02:17 dlowe: hmm lemme try that 21:04:04 (apply #'reinitialize-instance foo (loop for slot in (c2mop:class-slots (find-class 'foo)) collect (car (c2mop:slot-definition-initargs slot)) collect (c2mop:slot-definition-initform slot))) 21:04:06 if you have long lines 21:05:32 -!- bubo [~bubo@91-114-177-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:05:51 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06:00 or rather (loop for slot in (c2mop:class-slots (class-of foo)) do (setf (c2mop:standard-instance-access foo (c2mop:slot-definition-location slot)) (c2mop:slot-definition-initform))) 21:06:44 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:07:00 stassats: thanks that what I thought, but I don't want to add too many dependencies to my lib, so I'm going default-initargs route 21:07:08 (c2mop:slot-definition-initform foo) 21:07:26 closre-mop is, like, one of the most common dependencies 21:07:39 and who cares about too many dependencies anyway? 21:08:17 bubo [~bubo@91-115-17-104.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:08:32 -!- myles is now known as mylesh 21:08:48 stassats: the anti-quicklisp minority does! 21:09:05 i don't use quicklisp and i don't care about dependencies! 21:09:11 well I don't want to turn my lib into hu.dwim thing, where pulling 1 little utility lib pulls all of it 21:09:15 madnificent: thats a silent majority no doubt 21:09:16 hi 21:09:21 pjb`: are you there? 21:09:29 *sykopomp* tries to avoid things that depend on iterate. 21:09:37 pjb`: I've got hunchentoot run on a piece of hardware 21:09:52 sykopomp: why? 21:09:56 pjb`: an embedded project 21:10:07 madnificent: prejudice. Severe prejudice. 21:10:28 if I can avoid having it loaded into my lisp image, I do so. 21:10:39 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:10:39 ah ok. i felt iterate wasn't perfect, but it's somewhat better than loop. or so it seems. 21:10:53 it's 2012, who cares what's loaded into the image? 21:10:57 oh boy, here we go... 21:11:09 sykopomp: I feel similarly about metabang-bind. we should start a society for library-hating bigots. 21:11:24 hefner: you understand me. It's not about memory. 21:11:26 hefner: I saw your work on 6502 assembly :) 21:11:30 hefner: that usually means gwking-ware 21:11:49 (not a big loss) 21:11:55 hefner: everybody's talking to you, look i'm too. (but really the assembly thing was cool) 21:12:18 glad people found it interesting. 21:12:22 stassats: are you aware of anyway to set the ordering for slots in slime-inspector 21:12:33 mon_key: which ordering do you want? 21:12:35 I patched a library once to remove its iterate dependency. 21:12:40 french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:56 stassats: sometimes i would like it other than alphabetical 21:13:04 Hi 21:13:09 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.24.21] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:13:16 mon_key: so, what is other than alphabetical? 21:13:18 ha! 21:13:28 default-initargs has the same problem 21:13:36 hefner: I should add arnesi to the list 21:13:52 that's a shame 21:13:56 pnq [~nick@AC82C7DE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:08 stassats: ideally the ordering from the source for the defining class. 21:14:08 -!- Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:12 fe[nl]ix: hah. 21:14:18 Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 21:14:34 mon_key: ok, put (defvar *inspector-slots-default-order* :unsorted) into ~/.swank.lisp 21:14:37 stassats: obv. that would be a problem for heavily/multiply inheritted class definitions 21:14:40 someone know the rules for tranform a point liste in doublet 21:15:14 fe[nl]ix: I think something like arnesi has to grow into an independent language alongside CL, or die trying. 21:15:19 mon_key: there's also *inspector-slots-default-grouping* 21:15:28 stassats: thanks! 21:15:29 does middle english count as english? 21:15:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:44 mon_key: both of those are settable by two toggles " Group slots by inheritance [ ] Sort slots alphabetically [ ]" in the inspector 21:15:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:15:55 stassats: what does the latter do. I can't tell from just a cursory glance 21:16:02 sykopomp: what is "middle english"? 21:16:04 those variables only affect the default value 21:16:12 nevermind 21:16:12 mon_key: try those toggles on an inherited class 21:16:19 stassats: nm got it. 21:16:57 Posterdati: It's the language between "old english" and "modern english". 21:17:08 i should totally write a slime-tip about that 21:20:39 stassats: Thanks for your help. I'm finding this is much nicer: 21:20:39 (setf swank::*inspector-slots-default-grouping* :inheritance swank::*inspector-slots-default-order* :unsorted) 21:21:15 with sbcl+slime on osx, i can't interrupt a running function with C-c C-c. is there something i can do to make it work? 21:21:43 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-110-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:21:46 mon_key: if you had (in-package :swank) in .swank.lisp, you'dnt need swank:: 21:22:01 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-044.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:22:30 and by the way, it's better to use defvar or defparameter, because those variables won't be defined at the time .swank.lisp is loaded 21:22:39 stassats: why aren't those symbols exported? 21:23:38 mon_key: because i use (in-package :swank) in .swank.lisp 21:23:48 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:24 solussd [~joe@rrcs-76-79-44-2.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:26 stassats: You should provide a repl shortcut for those :) 21:24:44 for what? 21:25:17 toggling the inspector slots. 21:25:28 that doesn't make any sense 21:26:33 snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:27:37 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:27:58 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@80.249.86.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:29:14 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:24 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:43 stassats: you are right. 21:30:50 i know! 21:30:51 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-050.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:31:16 oooh, i didn't know about slot-missing. that could be a treat in some metaprogramming things :) 21:31:53 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:02 elatedpixel [~elatedpix@cpe-174-097-005-182.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:14 madnificent: it's better to use MOP for these things 21:34:27 stassats: i didn't know the mop had it either (but it obviously does). i didn't know about slot-missing in either closer-mop nor in the clhs 21:35:28 mop doesn't have slot-missing, but it has things which allow to do "some metaprogramming things" without using it 21:36:45 -!- borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:37:55 *maxm-* found what he was looking for.. Add slot %orig-initargs, initialize it in shared-initialize to initargs, only if unbound. then instead of initforms, use (setf slot-a (or (getf %orig-initargs :slot-a) "default-a) slot-b (or (getf %orig-initargs :slot-b) "default-b)) farther on in shared-initalize 21:38:15 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:28 works like a charm, reinitialize-instance returning its state to exactly the mix of default values and initial creation initargs 21:38:38 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 21:38:54 maxm-: protip: (or (getf %orig-initargs :slot-a) "default-a) == (getf %orig-initargs :slot-a "default-a") 21:39:21 ah doh, /me does not use getf often.. now I feel dumb :-) 21:40:07 maxm-: i forgot, what problem were you solving again? 21:40:49 stassats: I have a parser class, which has some parameters, and also stores some parsing state inside of it 21:41:34 would like to have to reuse the parser it to parse files, (which should reset state to default (ie current line number, etc etc).. 21:41:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-050.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:05 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:42:23 and what problem were you having with using closer-mop instead of the contraption you just showed? 21:42:32 its inconvenient to have it one-shot-only, because I'm adding a call (parse-and-repares-on-changes (make-instance 'parser ...options) "file") 21:42:40 which will start a thread and re-parse when file changed 21:43:11 well trying to minimize dependencies, guess could have used closer-mop too 21:43:23 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 21:43:51 why is it inconvenient? your GC doesn't work? 21:44:18 stassats: if you often use closer-mop for features it may be interesting to double/triple-check contextl. it seems to be a problem solver for some cases where i'd normally try to use the mop. 21:44:28 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:32 hello. is there a one in all collection library out there? binary tree. hash table that supports arbitrary test function.etc 21:44:42 what if call site does (parse-and-reparse (make-instance (parser :some-custom-thing 'x) file)) 21:45:26 how would it create another object just like the parser when it finds the file changed, and needs to be re-read? 21:45:50 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 21:46:08 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:46:10 davlap [~davlap@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:17 joast [~rick@98.145.91.18] has joined #lisp 21:46:22 guess then I can copy the original parser before its used, but then you need mop anyway.. (reinitialize-instance) seemed like a natural thing to achieve "ok lets reset back to the start" state 21:46:40 maxm-: and what if the caller does (let ((parser (parser :some-custom-thing 'x))) (setf (some-non-custom-thing parser) 'y) (parse-and-reparse parser file)) 21:48:28 frx: look at cliki 21:48:32 stassats: then it will not work, but its a bit a contrived example, why would they do (setf) rather then use provided initarg 21:48:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:46 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:10 maxm-: it's standard common lisp, why wouldn't they might want to use it? 21:49:24 s/might// 21:49:33 anyway its no big deal, could be solved by mop obviously.. /me has nice very customizable copy-instance interface in his utility lib, which I could have used, but I want to have minimum dependencies 21:49:57 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 21:50:45 ie (copy-instance obj :reason :whatever), default implementation shallow-copies, functions to copy slots, obtain slot list and such are specialized on the reason as well as instance and slot name, so one can have custom copying behavours 21:51:10 just did not wanted to bring up the whole utility lib for a trivial reason 21:52:21 me2 [~me2@ppp-94-64-187-161.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:52:37 *maxm-* uses it a lot in qt settings dialogs, where you want to change the underlaying model as user changes stuff in the setting dialog, but have "cancel" button reset everything back. So you need to keep original model somewhere, (or work on a copy) 21:52:39 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:52:42 hi all 21:53:06 -!- davlap [~davlap@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:06 maxm-: i'd do something (defun parse-re-parse (parser) (let ((slot-values (extract-slot-values parser))) (unless (do-some-magic) (put-back-slot-values parser slot-values) (do-some-more-magic)))) 21:53:12 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:53 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d810.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:58 Q: Given a positive int, how can I get all the positive ints that add up to that number? eg: 4 -> ((4) (3 1) (2 2) (2 1 1) (1 1 1 1)) 21:54:00 hi 21:54:24 me2: ask your high-school math teacher 21:54:28 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:33 stassats: Is there a way to toggle trunctation of slot-values in the inspector e.g. [ ] SOME-SLOT = "((foo bar baz ...))" 21:54:50 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 21:54:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:02 stassats, haven't seen him in 20 years :-/ 21:55:10 mon_key: see swank::*inspector-printer-bindings* 21:55:14 i have 21:55:33 -!- french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/] 21:56:15 me2: then it's time for a reunion 21:56:39 stassats, you are so clever 21:56:45 increasing *print-lines*, *print-length*, *print-level* doesn't seem to help 21:56:48 me2: i know! 21:57:29 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-rmwtsecwpqtniqgy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:56 me2: #lisp doesn't tend to answer questions from courses 21:57:59 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:58:01 me2: next time you'll know better than asking off-topic questions in #lisp 21:58:39 madnificent, a) it's not from a course b) some pointer to where to read for how to do it? 21:59:16 seems just looking at those answers reveals somewhat of an algorithm 21:59:22 google should be helpful 21:59:34 starting from the leftmost number in the list, carry 1 over to the right 21:59:52 if that makes some number greater than a number to its left, skip that and try it on the next number 21:59:56 davlap [~davlap@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:54 me2: the point is that if we tell you how to do it, the exercise becomes pointless. The idea is that you figure it out yourself. 22:00:59 yes, i did that and get a list. but then it gets complicated. i have to try all the combinations of those lists, with their sub expansions, with no repetitions 22:01:10 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82C7DE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:01:20 are you solving project euler or something? 22:01:22 that's the fun part :-) 22:01:27 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-157-53.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:01:31 what I listed is a purely linear process 22:01:38 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:40 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:48 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:59 no, i want to use it to be able to combine things 22:02:16 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-50-125-96.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:20 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:21 ..words from text, to my "explanations" 22:02:28 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey` 22:02:38 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-195-163.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:02:42 -!- gigamonkey` is now known as gigamonkey 22:03:04 i would probably think: if I have all the ways to make n, how do i get all the ways to make n+1? 22:03:30 off topic, but my hackerspace is working through the project euler problems together. i chose to use lisp and so am here to soak up your knowledge. i've been surprised to see how many of your names i recognize when googling for answers to my problems 22:03:31 eg (downtoabove 6) -> ((5 1) (4 2) (3 3)) and then i should call downtoabove to each element, and make all combinations, with no repetition :-/ 22:03:35 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:55 sort and union, don't worry about internal repetition 22:03:56 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:58 unless you need speed later 22:04:29 limetree, thanks, that seems productive, and i hadn't thought it. i was thinking only n -> n-1 22:04:46 but the algo I listed would naturally avoid repetition 22:04:52 since it balances larger numbers to the left 22:05:21 or is there something wrong with that idea that I'm not seeing? 22:06:00 Phoodus, yes, i was thinking about finding something "cleaner". but thanks 22:06:41 depends on your definition of "clean" :) 22:07:18 there's a very straightforward way to do this without ever generating duplicate values. 22:08:05 Phoodus, i think there is. what you say gives a list of lists. but that is the first step, and you have to combine those and do what you said to their elements, and then it's lost (as far as i can see) 22:08:32 no, you only look at the prior result, and calculate the next result from tha one 22:08:55 (4), "shift" 1 to the right, into (3 1) 22:09:06 then only given (3 1), do the same to get (2 2) 22:09:18 4 doesn't go to (3 1) it goes to ((4) (3 1) (2 2)) 22:09:27 then only given (2 2), you don't want (1 3) because of ordering, so then you start with the 2nd value and get (2 1 1) 22:09:50 (3 1) can give (2 1 1) and (2 2) also gives (2 1 1) 22:10:03 no, (3 1) will only give (2 2) 22:10:09 follow the steps 22:10:42 I _believe_ it will work, just extrapolating from this simple example; I can't see a divergence from the optimal 22:11:29 but given only the prior result, you should be able to calculate the next result, and the whole chain of results should be complete and non-repeating 22:12:12 each step is a linear walk down the list to evaluate what to do next, but that might be cheaper for small lists than doing recursion & duplicate elimination 22:12:15 Phoodus, ie just "expand" the rightermost > 1 ? ..seems correct.. 22:12:52 I'm sure pkhuong's algo he references is probably more elegant, but I don't deal much with arithmetic trickery, so this is just what I saw at face value :) 22:13:25 me2: expand the left-most >1 that will not result in a mis-ordering 22:14:12 so the list of numbers will always satisfy #'>= 22:15:02 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:15:08 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-142-220.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:25 it's a perfect use for screamer, fwiw. 22:15:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:02 a pointer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(number_theory) 22:16:04 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:16:34 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 22:16:43 bjonnh` [~bjonnh@bdn33-2-89-86-25-253.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:17:03 *Phoodus* defers to the real math-heads 22:17:07 stassats, thanks 22:17:57 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@ABordeaux-551-1-217-204.w109-222.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:18:03 -!- Guest88418 is now known as X-Scale 22:18:57 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 22:20:45 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.144.78.142] has joined #lisp 22:20:45 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-149-60.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:21 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:23:03 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-179-77.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:06 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:55 -!- mylesh [~mhenderso@cpe-024-074-118-001.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:13 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:36 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:31:09 Buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has joined #lisp 22:31:10 conntrack [~tor@pdpc/supporter/professional/conntrack] has joined #lisp 22:33:16 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:33:30 -!- noth1ng is now known as Inode 22:33:44 naryl [~weechat@citadel.niflheim.info] has joined #lisp 22:34:29 -!- naryl [~weechat@citadel.niflheim.info] has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:44 naryl [~weechat@citadel.niflheim.info] has joined #lisp 22:37:07 Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-158-56.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 22:39:10 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d810.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:13 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-030.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:40:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:03 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@64.106.20.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:44:50 -!- acml [~user@217.131.104.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:46 pnq [~nick@ACA2D6D8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:00 -!- jasom_ is now known as jasom 22:47:43 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:48:16 Xach: Have you reviewed http://paste.lisp.org/display/127620#2 ? Is it satisfactory? 22:48:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:17 mrsep [~user@drsd-4dbdacc3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:40 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:51:53 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:31 Hexstream: can you convert the (sub ...) to a double-quoted string, please? 22:52:46 That string will be used as the link text in disambiguation 22:53:11 Oh, right. 22:54:03 Xach: I have another feature request for l1sp.org, it's a bit weird but it would be so very convenient: 22:54:07 Could you make it so that accessing, say, l1sp.org/file:///home/hexstream/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/clhs-20120208-http/HyperSpec-7-0/HyperSpec/Body/c_symbol.htm would redirect to 22:54:07 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_symbol.htm ? 22:54:08 -!- davlap [~davlap@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:54:21 Oops, sorry for extraneous newline. 22:55:24 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 22:55:37 The way this would work is that "/HyperSpec/" would be searched in the string, and if it's found then everything that comes before is ignored and a check is made if /Body/c_symbol.htm corresponds to an existing page, and then redirect. 23:00:31 What is the use case? 23:00:40 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 23:01:11 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 23:01:22 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:03:10 Xach: Well, let's say someone asks a question about the standard on IRC, and I want to give the link to whatever page in the CLHS. What I usually do is go in Emacs, invoke C-c C-d h whatever, and perhaps navigate a bit, and then... "uh oh, this points to my local copy". So I go on lispworks' site by whatever means and painfully replace the last part of the URL with the correct end... 23:04:23 Hexstream: we used to have a bot for that. It was nice. 23:04:46 That's pretty bloody annoying. And now that the clhs is in quicklisp I'm making a "Getting started with the CLHS" guide and I'm hoping to popularize local CLHS somewhat, but it would be nice to have a "universal" solution for the kind of local-to-global conversion I've had to do manually each time until now... 23:05:45 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:05:55 sykopomp: Right, well, we no longer have it. And the bot solution only works for IRC, it's not quite as much a "universal" solution we could recommend in every situation as long as you can access a website... 23:07:06 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:44 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:08:02 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 23:08:29 -!- mrsep [~user@drsd-4dbdacc3.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 23:08:46 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:50 -!- elatedpixel [~elatedpix@cpe-174-097-005-182.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:10:19 Hexstream: So if someone says "where is the documentation for car" you go to emacs instead of writing http://l1sp.org/cl/car? 23:10:56 C-c d h is just so easy 23:11:32 not as easy as the key ilisp and probably everything else pre-SLIME used.. which I can no longer recall. 23:11:34 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 23:11:53 rebinding is also easy 23:12:08 oGMo: do you use erc? 23:12:19 *Guthur`* looks but seems to have lost his ilisp key 23:12:22 Xach: nah too primitive 23:13:09 Xach: Hah, actually, yes. Force of habit ;P But, the problem remains if it's not the page for a symbol. And also, sometimes I'm not 100% sure of my answer and try some stuff in the REPL and check various pages with C-c C-d h conveniently, and then when I'm ready to post the answer I must do the conversion... 23:14:04 I'm not inclined, sorry. 23:14:11 Hexstream: I've always thought the best thing would be a local CLHS processed for display with Emacs using lots of text-properties holding lots of links to the rest of the document. 23:14:23 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14:51 Xach: Ok then. More motivation to start making my own web services. 23:14:53 i tried to get w3-mode to work in emacs so i could have it without looking over at firefox, but gave up 23:15:07 like the dpans2texi *info* version of the spec but witout the info overhead 23:15:51 w3m works fine with clhs 23:15:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:03 Oh, I could make a Chrome "page action" for that. Not as universally accessible, but it would be pretty nice. And even quite easy to do, presumably. 23:16:05 stassats: no it doesn't 23:16:16 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:16:17 i couldn't get w3m to work at all, forget the reason 23:16:40 mon_key: but you're wrong! 23:16:50 mon_key: not about this. 23:16:53 I have to agree with stassats 23:16:57 Hexstream: chrome has search engines a la firefox keywords too. i have a clhs keyword set up, but 90% of the time it's in my history anyway. 23:17:02 I didn't much like it though 23:17:17 I just went back to firefox/chrom 23:17:19 chrome* 23:17:55 i'm using w3m for reading clhs for the past 5 years without any problems 23:19:18 oGMo: Right, actually I want to make a kickass Chrome search interface for the CLHS at some point. The first thing to do would be to make a very comprehensive CLHS symbolic database, from which the search tables and stuff would be generated easily. It would also make for a really nice base for a documentation system. 23:19:20 The Right Thing is to have a plain text version of the spec that is fully hotlinked with text-properties which operates like *Help* and which doesn't require emacsw3m or *info* version of the spec 23:19:55 who cares about right things when emacs-w3m works well with the current version of CLHS? 23:20:59 stassats: b/c it doesn't work well with slime-mode 23:21:17 seems to work fine to me 23:21:20 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:21:21 holycow [~holycow@pdpc/supporter/bronze/holycow] has joined #lisp 23:21:24 what does slime-mode have to do with it? 23:21:27 not everything has to be done in native elisp 23:21:44 mon_key: You're really not saving many keystrokes by saying "b/c" instead of because, you know... 23:22:17 and you can tell emacs to substitute b/c with because for you 23:22:30 wow 23:22:43 the time it takes me to reach for / is greater than the time it takes me to type ause 23:22:50 dunno, but slime-describe-function is already pretty useful, i'd think adding the info around there would be nice, assuming copyright issues could be worked around 23:23:04 does anyone know what the new name of layered-slot-set from http://www.jot.fm/issues/issue_2008_03/article4/ is? this is contextl. 23:25:11 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:13 kwmiebach__ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-98-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:27:56 -!- Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:29 -!- holycow [~holycow@pdpc/supporter/bronze/holycow] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:30:13 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-139-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:31:05 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:31:30 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:39 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:32:05 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:32:16 -!- maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:48 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:07 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-206-130.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-030.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:55 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:39:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:40:13 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:40 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has joined #lisp 23:45:21 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 23:48:09 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:48:44 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 23:51:53 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127620#3 23:52:15 -!- Munksgaa1d- [~Munksgaar@UV-DORM2-19-190.resnet.aug.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:14 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@UV-DORM2-19-172.resnet.aug.edu] has joined #lisp 23:55:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:56:19 parfait 23:59:58 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@199.180.145.100] has quit [Quit: Quit]