00:03:21 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:42 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 00:04:45 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:02 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:06:16 ltaoist [~mo@183.20.103.117] has joined #lisp 00:07:48 -!- diginet [~diginet@ppp-69-153-141-111.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-197.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:03 diginet [~diginet@ppp-69-153-141-111.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:13 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:23 rlb3`` [~user@204.62.13.112] has joined #lisp 00:09:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-197.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:59 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:10:21 -!- p_l [~pl@089-101-208053.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:10:26 p_l [~pl@089-101-208053.ntlworld.ie] has joined #lisp 00:11:29 fe[nl]ix: on HEAD, the first test as you said has yet to fail, and the second fails after the first read, could this be due to the addition of lfp, or was that added before 0.7.3? 00:11:49 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:11:49 -!- wolgo [~jarrod@184-106-197-125.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:11:49 -!- mal [~mal@www.wimmekes.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:11 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:11 -!- drysdam [~dr@pool-70-16-206-52.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:11 -!- elliottjohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:37 wolgo [~jarrod@184-106-197-125.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:46 elliottjohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:07 drysdam [~dr@pool-70-16-206-52.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:25 -!- rlb3` [~user@204.62.13.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:16 mal [~mal@www.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:45 Froward [~PANZERKON@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:16 ysph: 0.7.3 doesn't use it 00:16:20 hello dudes 00:16:29 looking to learn lisp, haven't programmed in ages and know nothing about lisps 00:16:51 more for a hobby. I need some ebook or something I can easily download, because I don't have internet at home. any recommendations? :D 00:17:03 Froward: Practical Common Lisp 00:17:07 -!- Guthur` [~user@host86-147-201-35.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:17:16 ^ 00:18:43 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ ? 00:19:08 Yep 00:20:38 Froward: ! fancy seeing you here (: 00:21:01 fe[nl]ix: Maybe that's it then, I will start using HEAD for my app and see how it goes. Btw, how would the compilation of lfp work in quicklisp proper? 00:21:40 Frowardly [~PANZERKON@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:56 the gigamonkey book is great, there's also Land of Lisp, which I like (: 00:22:43 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 00:23:24 Land of Lisp is fun 00:23:33 I wish it would have gone over CLOS. 00:24:12 ysph: you have to install it manually 00:24:27 ysph: are you using debian/ubuntu ? 00:24:34 -!- Froward [~PANZERKON@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:01 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:06 fe[nl]ix: ah, yes, i see, that's not too bad 00:26:14 Frowardly: also check http://cliki.net/ it has all the pointers. 00:26:45 ysph: for debian and ubuntu I've setup a repository 00:26:54 dangle ALL the pointers 00:26:57 (scnr) 00:26:58 thanks, but I'm mostly limited to things I can download. wikis are annoying for that reason 00:27:24 Frowardly: you can download it. 00:27:24 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:26 in that case, the gigamonkey book it is (: 00:27:29 wget http://cliki.net 00:27:44 ysph: see http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/iolib-devel/2011-December/000509.html 00:27:52 is that legal? 00:28:01 tomodo: it's a wiki! 00:28:49 And laws should not apply to mind stuff. The internet is mind stuff. 00:29:42 you can download on lisp as a pdf, as well as gentle introduction to symbolic computing 00:30:05 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-50-126-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30:47 fe[nl]ix: thanks, that's helpful (i'm on debian) 00:34:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:10 Xach: being able to make the xin32 binaries with Wine has made something occur to me, with regard to games as historical objects and the problems of "abandonware" 00:35:34 spacebat [~user@150.101.97.47] has joined #lisp 00:36:20 Xach: i mean win32 00:36:48 think of Metroid----it's available as a single file, you'll never have some version of linux that can't run it 00:37:01 whereas my linux binaries might break, 00:37:30 sorry, i'll finish in a few minutes. i have to take cookie outside. 00:37:35 (a dog) 00:38:57 dto: what about things like DOSBox? 00:39:18 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:16 dto: haha, your linux binaries will break, unless you run them in an emulator with the appropriate version of linux+ecosystem installed (: 00:41:41 antifuchs: but wine will run them. 00:41:47 even the opengl works 00:41:50 heh 00:41:55 although i havent tested it extensively 00:42:10 I think that modern Windows systems with DLL loading, assemblies, egc have the same issue, dto 00:42:10 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-320579.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:17 *etc 00:42:30 pnathan: my dlls are included tho. 00:42:42 pnathan: i guess it's possible that other things could change though, like opengl 00:42:56 you can't make your stuff eternal 00:42:57 but i thought backward compatibility was very important to microsoft 00:43:29 anywya i found i was having trouble building my oldest games to play them again, and what ended up working was to just play them on windows 00:43:34 they dont work on wine, the older versions 00:43:35 dto: it is, but with NT6 they started to care less about broken applications 00:43:42 tomodo: true 00:44:11 MS does, but it has about a 15? year longjevity. They aren't IBM with OS/360 apps still running. 00:44:17 Ansik [~user@117.33.101.43] has joined #lisp 00:44:40 pnathan: but they had (till 6.0) similar stance on backwards compat. 00:44:48 -!- elatedpixel [~elatedpix@cpe-174-097-005-182.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:45:11 if the app is using documented APIs properly, and was done for Win1.0, it will still run on NT6.1 32bit :) 00:45:28 Wow. 00:46:21 tritchey [~tritchey@12.69.199.162] has joined #lisp 00:46:21 p_l: i do have another concept though 00:46:21 distributing the Blocky runtime separately from the game files 00:46:27 they stopped caring about buggy apps in 6.x series (before, they'd try to make broken applications work too... with varying successes, but the common case worked) 00:47:07 the best thing you can do for longevity is use free data formats and write the code in a modular way 00:47:07 (so that e.g. the use of opengl is easily replaced with something else) 00:47:09 pnathan: personally, I think IBM and Bull have backwards compat done in scary way. 00:47:31 Bull? 00:47:31 chromati` [~user@71-222-145-201.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:32 tomodo: or keep care of your sources so that they can be later donated to archives/museums 00:47:33 Froward [~PANZERKON@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:34 then as long as i dont change the API i'll be able to run the old games with new blocky 00:47:34 pnq [~nick@ACA2034B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:34 not a perfect solution but 00:47:34 one of the very original reasons for my becoming involved in free software, was that i was making music with proprietary tools and realized i couldn't count on being able to access my work 00:47:34 not that i'm that good at music or anything, i just have the concern all the same 00:47:34 -!- Frowardly [~PANZERKON@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:34 i guess what im saying is that Wine is awesome :) 00:47:53 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:11 pnathan: I think they ended up being owners of one of the surviving "machines for HLL" systems 00:48:22 the stack-based ALGOL ones 00:48:25 yeah, specify a machine and program to it - something like SCUMMVM 00:48:56 dto: Another World was recently re-released on several systems thanks to having internal VM 00:48:59 I've never heard of Bull. 00:49:06 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:06 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-135-103.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:11 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 00:49:27 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 00:49:54 p_l: i'll have to look that up 00:49:59 @dto: I've leaned much more FOSS since I dug around antique research from the 50s/60s and realized that the research source was almost certainly unrecoverable. 00:50:20 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:50:27 ohhhh out of this world 00:50:38 pnathan: source for what code 00:51:05 Man, I don't even remember. I was grubbing around research projects from that era. 00:52:06 Well, some of thoses sources where on punch cards, some on paper tapes 00:52:15 ah, sorry, it wasn't Bull, but Burroughs 00:52:32 though Bull still sells GE-600 compatible mainframes 00:52:45 And when you see how universities treat homepages of their professors when they leave 00:53:20 pjb: hell, our IT group actively destroys *current* usability 00:55:20 *pnathan* laughs 00:56:05 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 00:56:18 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:20 pnathan: when you start thinking of dealing with it in terms of "takeover", "occupation" etc.... 00:58:28 On another topic - does anyone know of a lisp-friendly vps host for websites? I'm thinking about putting up a lisp-backed website and I don't know the vps market very well 00:58:41 pnathan: i think tech.coop 00:59:33 pnathan: by my advice is to get your own virtual machine, so that you have root access and can do whatever you want. 01:02:10 linode is good 01:02:45 i'm not sure what lisp friendly means... i mean, you can do whatever you want. 01:03:12 pnathan: any VPS that runs KVM or Xen will work. LXC *should* work, but I don't have experimental data 01:03:15 They have installed sbcl instead of php? 01:03:39 you just get a stock debian or whatever 01:03:41 pjb: I think SBCL was "crashy" with some early Xen versions (wouldn't surprise me) and possibly other solutions 01:03:53 I recall UML having similar problems 01:08:39 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:09 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:17 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 01:12:21 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2034B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:14 vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:37 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.118] has joined #lisp 01:22:20 -!- vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:22:39 vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:28 -!- clintm_ [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:24:53 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 01:27:57 -!- borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.69.199.162] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:39:16 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:40:05 sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-49-244-20.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:32 So is Lisp a serious language? 01:41:42 yes 01:41:51 Why does it appear nobody uses it? 01:41:52 Dead serrious. 01:41:59 sickle: people are not serrious. 01:42:07 They only think about eating and sex. 01:42:13 pjb: and apparently programming 01:42:28 not many people use lisp because it's good 01:42:35 Illogical 01:42:47 sickle: not many people eat at La Tour D'Argent, because it's good. 01:42:56 sickle: more people eat at McDonald's. 01:42:56 And expensive? 01:43:07 Yes, in intelligence. 01:43:21 Intelligence, if you have to ask, you don't have it. 01:43:24 :-) 01:43:48 I just don't see an advantage to using Lisp 01:43:52 sickle: Lisp makes it easy for one programmer to do what would normally take many programmers. As a result, there are very few lisp jobs that get posted. 01:44:05 sickle: don't use it then! 01:44:19 Well I think if people are crazy about it 01:44:25 It must have some greatness I'm missing 01:44:31 sickle: you could start reading sicp. 01:44:33 it is great 01:44:49 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 01:44:57 -!- vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:45:08 Then you may decide if you want to learn Common Lisp. 01:45:20 -!- ysph [~user@mobile-166-147-125-035.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:45:36 sickle: it only takes one look at pop culture to see that popular doesnt mean good 01:46:33 -!- kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46:44 So the mainstream languages may not be great then 01:46:52 But Lisp can't be good because it's not popular 01:47:02 faultless logic 01:47:12 Allow me to correct myself 01:47:19 The reason for Lisp being good can not be because it is popular 01:47:23 sickle: also, you have to know why you learn lisp. Is it to use it professionnally, or to have fun? In the laster case, you will have more fun with lisp than with any other programming language (only Smalltalk may come close). Professionnaly, it's a powerfull tool, but often misunderstood, so it's harder to make it accepted. 01:47:33 Lisp is good because smart people designed it 01:47:33 That's true. 01:47:52 Lisp is good mostly because it's so maleable, and offers so many abstraction tools. 01:48:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:25 there's no single reason why Lisp is good, it's good because it's Lisp 01:48:30 a lot of people say learning lisp will make you a better programmer in any language 01:48:36 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:40 cyphase: I've heard the same about Latin 01:48:48 sickle, indeed 01:49:03 lisp and sicp are mind openners. 01:49:05 learning any language will make you better 01:49:14 except for Java 01:49:21 yea, but people dont say that about any language 01:49:33 I would say Latin has a very taxing grammar, so to use it you must learn much grammar which will help you in other languages. 01:49:34 they say learning a new language will make you better, and learning lisp will make you better 01:49:47 But what is the quality of Lisp that is eye opening? 01:49:51 lisp is singled out more than any other 01:50:18 learning a new way to solve problems will make you a better programmer. 01:50:32 sickle: http://random-state.net/features-of-common-lisp.html 01:50:40 sickle: Lisp got bad press due to being involved in a fiasco caused by overhype on AI 01:50:48 stassats`: as a sysadmin, I always work on server running java apps instead of php. most java programmers are really programmers. 01:51:08 stassats`: want to work* 01:51:10 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 01:51:27 decaf: most java programmers are programmers? 01:51:28 woah. 01:51:35 deep. 01:51:41 decaf: i don't understand what you're trying to say 01:51:44 sickle: the thing is, Lisp either provided, or made it easy to add, many things that were impossible or require lot of work otherwise 01:51:48 burton` [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:02 stassats`: kids coding php drives me crazy most times. 01:52:04 it leads... to interesting results, I guess 01:52:05 Programmable programing? 01:52:08 sickle: Programming is ultimately abstraction building, manipulation, and utilization. Once you read into the main features of lisps you will understand that this is the core focus and is facilitated more than in other languages. 01:52:11 sickle: in some ways 01:52:22 p_l: Is that the big deal about it? 01:52:40 sickle: have you heard of "Aspect Oriented Programming"? 01:52:59 No! 01:53:02 sickle: we've been repeating the same thing over and over. You don't seem to be able to understand. 01:53:09 The same stuff, presented first to Java people got ovation. Presented to Lispers, it got a "meh" 01:53:15 sickle: which is also one of the reasons it is unpopular, most people just end up making a mess that they can't reason with. 01:53:17 sickle: go read sicp! 01:53:25 pjb: sicp? 01:53:30 sickle: he linked you 01:53:38 I'm reading "Features of Common Lisp" currently 01:53:42 -!- xplorer00 [~xplorer00@141-136-210-148.dsl.iskon.hr] has left #lisp 01:53:46 good 01:53:59 SICP will require at least a year of reading 01:54:14 Watch the videos, it's faster. 01:54:20 SICP was the other link? 01:54:26 sickle: AoP project for Common Lisp got shelved at one point because it wasn't really needed (while Java needs an extra compiler!), and people went for other problems to solve that couldn't be so easily macroed out 01:55:44 sickle: sicp --> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 01:55:50 Gracias 01:55:56 Why do people in this channel have such short names? 01:56:46 The average age is older than in other channels. So we clobbered the TLAs. 01:57:11 On some old systems it has been a tradition to use TLAs for logins. 01:57:19 sickle: or initials 01:57:25 or just the name 01:57:26 etc. 01:57:30 short names 01:57:52 sickle: a lot of us use *nix systems, which also weighs on that, I guess 01:58:06 let's talk about Lisp, not names 01:58:24 and it helps distinguish pjb from string-equal :-) 01:58:42 I see 01:58:54 So have you all lurked here for years? 01:59:08 lurking.. waiting.. planning.. 01:59:17 Writing demonic Lisp could tambien no doubt 01:59:24 not necessarily lurked. But we might have kept nick preferences from long ago, or from some system that had predefined rules etc. 01:59:49 I remember a while ago I came to lisp, saying I wanted to make a new lisp, where for example ` was just replaced with ', so all quoting and quasiquoting was done with just an apostrophe/backquote 02:00:09 did you get laughed upon? 02:00:28 vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:35 no, more like "why/what's the point" 02:00:38 so indirectly, yes 02:00:47 hey what if we make [] short for lambda?? 02:01:06 what if don't? 02:01:11 tomodo: sure, do it! 02:01:22 []{}!? are reserved for user reader macros. 02:02:50 Quadrescence: indeed. Nobody prevents you to just use `. 02:03:08 (let ((a `(1 2 3))) (prin1 a) (princ " and be happy!") (terpri)) 02:03:13 no more `', 02:04:49 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:33 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:57 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-108-49-244-20.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:07:13 -!- vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:07:38 vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:05 brooke [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:29 I work on Windows, want to install common lisp, I have installed clisp, but I don't know how to load quicklisp from clisp, please help. 02:11:06 Ansik: it's explained there http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 02:11:38 Basically, you donwload quiklisp.lisp and (load "quicklisp.lisp") then (quicklisp-quickstart:install) 02:12:50 exec the command in clisp? 02:13:03 Yes. 02:13:06 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:12 thx, I'll try. 02:13:13 I also advise to run: clisp -ansi 02:14:23 tomodo, why don't we make [] short for lists 02:14:24 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has left #lisp 02:15:35 Did #lisp already form an opinion on Animvs? 02:16:27 what is it? 02:16:38 ... wait, is that YetAnotherToyLisp? ;) 02:16:39 I did. I thought he had some interesting semantics, but was wasting his time on killing off parens. 02:17:01 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:17:04 oh, so it had some interesting stuff? 02:17:11 It's a skin on Clojure trying to make it more useable. 02:17:35 ahh 02:18:05 Animvs: Lisp for people who dont like Lisp 02:18:19 http://brianwill.net/blog/2012/02/07/animvs-lisp-for-people-who-dont-like-lisp/ 02:19:14 we like lisp here. 02:20:07 I think the capability to mix static & dynamic code might be useful and the desire to work with the IDE is a good design approach. But having unclosed parens makes my eyes bleed. 02:20:22 pjb, :) 02:21:40 pnathan, yes. If I have any major complaint with Common Lisp, it'd have to be the inability to detect errors earlier on, not when-it-happens. 02:22:25 Quadrescence: hahaha. Animvs: Like Zimbu, with parentheses. 02:22:31 sykopomp, hahaha 02:26:32 pnq [~nick@AC8124B4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:08 one of the key points is that "traditional lisp indentation style is very hard to read" and "doesn't give programs a 'shape'" 02:27:14 this video has got me fuming 02:27:19 ha 02:27:55 o.O 02:27:57 that's ridiculous 02:27:58 The indentation style of functional code is different. I've never really heard of that as an objection before though. 02:28:13 It might have validity? 02:28:25 not remotely, at least in my eyes 02:28:36 Lisp has consistent, generalized indentation 02:29:02 whereas in C-likes you've got whatever weird shit the author was in the mood for at the time 02:29:07 Well I think it can be argued that lisp looks the same everywhere. I mean, it does. Very little syntax is distinguishing. But that's kind of the point of lisp. 02:29:19 right 02:29:29 Ralith: through bondage and discipline in so many areas, Common Lisp eliminates distractions and creates freedom :) 02:29:31 you're not supposed to distinguish by syntax, you're supposed to distinguish by what's being invoked :P 02:30:02 Imperative code is straight line down the page quite often. functional code goes in and out. 02:30:06 syntax is just a hardcoded line-noisy way of doing the same thing after all 02:30:19 dto, I tried to get a BASIC programmer to use Blocky, but he wouldn't budge. I think it's because the homepage doesn't have some interesting graphic/game thing created by blocky. ;) 02:30:20 sometimes i feel like there's some other Common Lisp I've never seen and everybody is talking about it 02:30:33 Why are you talking about syntax? In lisp we just ignore it, we work directly with the syntactica tree! 02:31:01 pjb, in theory 02:31:03 Quadrescence: good point, i should link to my new game. Quadrescence also, i still haven't made a proper beta release. but it's getting there. 02:32:09 Quadrescence: my GUI framework-slash-visual-programming-thing is getting a workout now too: http://i.imgur.com/L2x05.png 02:32:33 i'll be back in a few minutes. 02:32:34 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:42 neena [~neena@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 02:32:42 i just saw it today, got me really excited 02:33:11 it? 02:33:19 dto, we all know you're secretly making a hypercard rip-off 02:33:26 sty [~quassel@66.49.142.186] has joined #lisp 02:34:00 -!- neena [~neena@76.73.121.203] has quit [Changing host] 02:34:00 neena [~neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has joined #lisp 02:34:09 pnathan, http://blocky.io 02:35:34 yeah, that 02:36:17 Oh, cool 02:37:01 Quadrescence: hypercard!? 02:37:58 dto, someone in here must know what hypercard is 02:38:02 Yes 02:38:54 Quadrescence: my first 'programming' was in hypercard 02:38:58 :) 02:39:04 -!- burton` is now known as kruhft 02:39:17 dto, the links to the videos on your site are dead 02:39:48 yeah i am going to put them up somewhere else 02:40:23 Quadrescence: no i'm aware of hypercard but haven't spent a lot of time with it 02:40:39 oh 02:40:40 i really went the smalltalk route. i even implemented my own version of squeak halos 02:40:51 -!- Ansik [~user@117.33.101.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:41:09 Quadrescence: it's really more of a scratch clone, or a clone of http://byob.berkeley.edu 02:42:41 this joystick config screen is the first time ive actually shipped a Blocky UI. 02:46:38 That's really cool man. 02:46:54 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D586.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:32 pnathan: theres actually a company called stencyl that sells a visual game dev builder that appears to be a Scratch clone in Flash. but i have something slightly similar to a BYOB clone, which i think will be a lot better. plus, arbitrary opengl for everything :). 02:49:56 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-243-212.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:57 but, as my thing is gpl3, people will not depend on some single vendor for access to some closed-source tool. i figure if i work really hard testing and polishing and documenting in 2012, i could have a REALLY nice beta. 02:51:14 yeah, it looks really nice 02:51:23 Will people have to release their stuff under gpl3 if they use your tool? 02:51:37 /not a very good legal beagle 02:52:13 legal beagle 02:52:33 So, I'm sitting here pondering asdf. And it seems to me that in lisp, there's two kinds of dependencies, but only one is supported by asdf 02:53:09 One is "file A is required to load before file B" and the other is "If file A changes, file B must also be reloaded" 02:53:52 asdf seems only to support the latter 02:56:16 back another time. 02:56:17 dlowe: isn't the order that you put files in handle the first case? 02:56:20 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:56:36 kruhft: only when using :serial t 02:57:00 and then it just makes later files depend on earlier files 02:57:01 well isn't that handling the first case? 02:57:26 the second case always handles the first case 02:57:51 The point is that I can't tell it to load A before B, but don't reload B when A changes 02:57:54 -!- brooke [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:03 dlowe: Why not just reload it anyways? Do your builds really take that long? 02:59:23 oconnore: yes. yes they do. 02:59:37 dlowe: no, asdf supports both types of dependencies. 02:59:53 antifuchs comes in for the save 02:59:57 dlowe: check out the difference between :in-order-to and :depends-on 03:00:03 antifuchs: I was hoping to be contradicted :D 03:00:08 it's subtle, and supremely confusing 03:00:08 \o/ 03:00:51 I'm never sure how to do it - rpg/Fare may actually have fixed this discrepancy (: 03:01:29 the things you discover when you run TRAVERSE on your systems a lot (; 03:02:32 I'm trying to move a big project over to a system where the dependencies are handled in layers 03:02:47 so macros, constants, and other time effects are declared in one module 03:03:00 compile time 03:03:14 hmm, I may actually have misunderstood 03:03:23 struct and class definitions, special variable declarations in another module 03:03:36 then the rest of the code in subsequent modules 03:03:40 AFAIR, compile-op causes load-op to be done on the things following it 03:03:59 erm. "AFAIR, compile-op causes compile-op to be done on the things following it" 03:04:04 so the compile module should force all the other modules to recompile 03:04:07 Tcepsa [~user@pool-108-15-89-215.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:15 but the rest just has load order dependencies 03:04:18 so, one recompile in the middle triggers a full recompile or something 03:05:49 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.192] has joined #lisp 03:06:52 -!- coder` [~user@p54918FB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 03:11:49 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:22 well, perhaps something like :in-order-to ((compile-op (load-op :compile-module) (load-op (load-op defs-module))) would work 03:13:42 I'll play with it, I guess 03:19:34 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:46 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:48 Ansik [~user@117.33.101.43] has joined #lisp 03:30:27 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:06 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 03:37:16 teggi [~teggi@113.172.52.225] has joined #lisp 03:37:34 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:16 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:40:16 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:40:16 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:42:41 Cosman246 [~user@216.9.29.126] has joined #lisp 03:45:17 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 03:46:48 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-128.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:02 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 03:49:51 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-175-125.netcologne.de] has 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quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:10:01 dlind_ [~david@h-2-37.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 04:10:21 drysdam_ [~dr@pool-70-16-206-52.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:08 -!- dlind [~david@h-2-37.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 04:11:08 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:11:09 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:09 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B32615A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 04:11:09 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:09 -!- drysdam [~dr@pool-70-16-206-52.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:09 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:34 nope. doesn't really look possible. 04:11:54 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] 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[Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:19 Cosman246 [~user@216.9.29.126] has joined #lisp 05:25:59 aib [kvirc@unaffiliated/aib42] has joined #lisp 05:27:30 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:28:58 Does anyone here use the ALU wiki? 05:29:36 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:32:06 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has joined #lisp 05:32:36 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:33:51 oh man apparently to do LISP shit I have to learn emacs 05:33:54 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:33:54 this is kind of a downer 05:34:17 Not really true 05:34:26 but emacs does have a lot of awesome tools 05:34:35 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:34:36 Cosman246: have not found enough information to keep me there. 05:34:57 the ALU has a wiki? :) 05:35:14 Froward: don't be so froward emacs is fun. ;-) but there are other interfaces: I think there's one for eclipse? and definitely one for vim 05:35:39 no I mean like, I am not really nerdy at all 05:35:45 -!- ltaoist [~mo@183.20.103.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:36:01 so my impulse to learn the basics of lisp is, so far, an exercise in self hate 05:36:13 Then emacs will really help you along there 05:37:02 Froward: I'm totally missing how emacs, nerdery, and lisp make you hate yourself. 05:37:12 It's okay, there are no nerds on IRC. 05:37:18 None. 05:37:24 ... lol 05:37:27 We're all geeks here anyway. ' 05:37:40 who are you calling a geek 05:37:46 *p_l* thinks his two years in Psychology (one failed) aren't enough to diagnose this shit 05:38:02 haha 05:38:44 last time I tried to learn emacs i was a bright eyed fourteen year old, and I got bored with it 05:38:47 p_l, do you have any advice for moving BASIC/C programmers to Lisp? 05:39:09 Froward: did you go through the tutorial? 05:39:11 Quadrescence: show them the database examples of PCL 05:39:16 working on it, sbryant 05:39:21 why do you need to be excited about your editor? it's just a tool 05:39:23 and #emacs is usefl 05:39:25 Quadrescence: then a lot of patience 05:39:29 just don't feed the trolls 05:39:40 and emacs-starter-kit might also be helpful 05:39:48 emacs-starter-kit is a godsend 05:39:59 at least after removing the clojure bits from lisp part 05:40:03 but paredit, and slime makes me super happy when I write lisp 05:40:07 sbryant: tbh, I've never found #emacs to be very useful. :\ 05:40:34 p_l, :) 05:40:38 sykopomp: I try to be helpful and some good people are there. 05:40:52 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: kthxbye] 05:41:20 sbryant: but I could just sit here and ask you, instead of #emacs! 05:41:56 haha 05:42:09 does anyone want to be my lisp buddy, where we just talk about lisp programs and write lisp code, be lispbros 05:42:21 be brogrammers following brotocol? 05:42:31 maybe 05:42:33 you could just talk about lisp in #lisp 05:42:38 I hear they like lisp talk. 05:42:41 There's an idea 05:42:48 *p_l* wonders where he left his marksman rifle, with dedication "to shoot bros with impunity" 05:43:01 sykopomp, no one shows me their code and wants to talk about it though 05:43:02 p_l: don't break brotocol 05:43:23 Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.21.28] has joined #lisp 05:43:24 >_> 05:43:32 Froward: What editor are you used to using? 05:43:41 notepad++ 05:43:44 We have a high rate of converting heathens 05:43:48 Notepad++?! 05:43:52 p_l: have you seen the brogramming talk? 05:43:55 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 05:44:02 Not even Venom, Implemented? 05:44:06 It's a pretty hilarious talk if a bit wonky 05:44:11 brogramming, ha 05:44:25 sbryant: I've seen at least one thing related to it. Then recently was bombarded with "be a brogrammer! Learn *Python* the hard way!" 05:44:31 like I said, I'm not really a nerd. 05:44:34 (ads for some online course) 05:44:50 Python doesn't treat unicode stuff as strings, which is bad enough for me 05:44:56 like, I know enough for normal people to call me a nerd, but for me not to consider myself one 05:44:58 Weird, I would think Zed would be murdering those people 05:45:00 I know it was "funny" but it was a waste of time, he didn't really say anything worth hearing 05:45:03 Froward: welcome to delightfull world of self-delusion. You prefer couch or the chair? 05:45:04 Froward: you must learn! 05:45:04 but here's the talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_AAqi0RZM 05:45:14 tomodo: that was kind of my problem with it 05:45:15 brogramming is so lol. 05:45:24 I mean, Python is better than a lot of things 05:45:27 but the guys at twilio are a great bunch of people 05:45:32 Yes, Cobol comes to mind. 05:45:36 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:45:48 but Unicode...not string...... 05:45:49 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@70-36-215-74.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:58 Froward: Emacs isn't really "for nerds". It's just very powerful, and some people go crazy with their setups 05:46:11 Probably the most powerful editor out there 05:46:21 and these days there's a lot more less-powerful but candy-like stuff around 05:46:58 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:47:01 also, qualities associated with nerds might not come from affinity to technology. Just saying. 05:47:55 p_l: are you alluding to editors like sublime and textmate? Or useless emacs stuffs? 05:47:55 Froward: what's the problem with a nerd label/lack thereof? 05:48:15 nothing 05:48:37 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:48:51 sbryant: more so towards Notepad++ (though it's fine editor, really), but also to IDEs and such 05:49:07 *p_l* recalls horribly the age of "real webmasters use Notepad.exe!" 05:49:09 >_> 05:49:55 Oh don't remind me of those times 05:50:01 Amen 05:50:03 also "webmasters" 05:50:04 antgreen [~user@70.50.65.48] has joined #lisp 05:50:28 I'm sorry I prefer to be called God-king of the web. 05:50:44 sbryant: in defence of that word, it was actually adopted as proper name in Poland, though recently fell into disuse 05:51:09 Interesting, did not know that 05:52:31 Froward: regarding Emacs - on Windows, I've used for some time (with success) Emacs-W32 builds. 05:52:42 they are slightly patched to better work out of the box on windows 05:53:21 I'm actually running it in a ubuntu VM 05:53:37 because I might as well go full nerd, right 05:53:41 just like 05:53:42 LOL 05:53:44 get all up in the linuxes and shit 05:53:45 dude 05:53:56 full nerd is hand-rolling your own Linux. 05:54:08 or better yet, writing your own os. ;) 05:54:13 pnathan: without using premade scripts ;) 05:54:13 takin baby steps, kemosabe 05:54:37 haha just messing with you man. 05:54:44 pnathan: your own os, you say... I raise you "own cpu, motherboard, firmware, *then* OS" 05:54:57 Phfah. 05:55:15 by own cpu, I mean designing it from scratch 05:55:16 If you havn't built your own cpu with transistors hand-cooked from silicon... 05:55:25 ;) 05:55:25 Writing your own OS is a pretty good exercise 05:55:44 Especially if you want to learn systems programming 05:55:54 full nerd is building a Lisp Machine 05:56:04 sbryant: unless done on x86, then you spent inordinate amount of times adapting to chip made for calculators 05:56:25 hah 05:56:34 Cosman246: uhmm... my OS was kinda in that direction (direct support for Forth, Haskell, Erlang and Lisp was planned...) 05:56:40 Bring back lisp machines. Symboilcs for everyone! 05:57:52 symbolics is the best 05:57:53 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:56 their machines at least 05:58:14 I'd like to see the Connection Machine architecture given another spin 05:58:22 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:58:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127701 Can someone help me out here? I'm not sure what I'm missing, and I can't get sbcl to provide any more debugging info. 05:58:48 pnathan, I want to see a connection machine enclosure design, we need one light per CPU and 65536 CPUs 05:58:58 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 05:59:30 If I saw that in my room blinking away, I'd either run screaming towards or away. Not sure which 05:59:38 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:48 Bike: can you read the png file? 06:00:13 Sure. 06:00:36 Man, my ideal OS would be written in a Lisp 06:00:37 (SIMPLE-ARRAY (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8) (450 500 4)), just like it should be 06:00:47 (probably CL) 06:00:51 with Emacs 06:00:58 -!- conntrack [~tor@pdpc/supporter/professional/conntrack] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:13 but with the backend replaced 06:01:23 Cosman246: I sort of treat Emacs as my OS 06:01:28 Indeed 06:01:30 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:01:41 hhh_ [71598408@gateway/web/freenode/ip.113.89.132.8] has joined #lisp 06:01:45 Bike: I would suggest a bisect and comment approach to debugging 06:02:26 There's also trace and step 06:02:32 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 06:02:50 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.65.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:02:57 trace is sbcl is pretty rad, and I've had success with the step debugger as well 06:03:20 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:03:54 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@70-36-215-74.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:03 Cosman246, start working on CLIMACS 06:04:21 Is that still being worked on 06:04:25 ? 06:04:44 it better be or I will take it over myself and ruin it 06:04:59 pnathan: modern DSPs (including GPUs) are kinda similar to connection machines 06:05:37 p_l, nowhere near as cool though, you must admit 06:05:40 Huh, think i found the problem, it's a weird one. Thanks anyway. 06:05:49 Bike, I'm curious what it is. 06:06:01 Bike, I didn't see anything blatantly wrong with that code there. 06:06:01 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:06:14 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129205241.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:06:48 Well, (opticl:pixel ...) is a values place of four values, and I was assigning three values to it. That worked when the values form was (values something something something), but not (apply #'values ...). I'm guessing it has something to do with &optional values types. 06:06:59 Oi. 06:08:46 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:08:47 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 06:08:47 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:09:12 You can also use values-list 06:10:47 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 06:11:53 p_l, what is your favorite or most often used utility function 06:12:12 That was a silly thing to forget, so I can, thank you. STill doesn't work, though, guess I have to provide that fourth value now. 06:12:13 hmmm 06:12:28 p_l, also it 06:12:32 's not allowed to exist in https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/qtility/src 06:12:40 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 06:12:40 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 06:12:40 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:12:59 Quadrescence: depends on language, but my faves in CL are probably MAPCAR and LOOP facility... oh, and the whole of CLOS... ^^; 06:13:17 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:13:54 Yeah, that makes it work. oh well 06:14:20 p_l, oops, I mean non-standard utility 06:14:27 sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:38 e.g., ZIP or ALIST->HASH-TABLE 06:14:42 split-sequence, maybe 06:14:48 oh good one 06:14:54 don't have a really clear favourite 06:15:02 -!- hhh_ [71598408@gateway/web/freenode/ip.113.89.132.8] has left #lisp 06:17:33 I <3 split-sequence 06:17:49 split-sequence is pretty bloody awesome 06:18:25 I think my favorite library is CL-PPCRE 06:19:04 cl-ppcre is solid. 06:19:35 I really want to use cl-javascript 06:19:40 Just because it's so damn cool 06:22:22 -!- Froward [~PANZERKON@c-71-200-123-212.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:22:52 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 06:27:17 -!- lakkris [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:33:22 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 06:34:10 is the following code (or an isomorphism of it) defined anywhere in a standard place: #'(lambda (x y) (equalp x (car y))) 06:34:11 ? 06:34:46 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:35:24 Wasn't there a slime command to trace all the functions of a package? I thought I read that in the manual, but I can't find it. 06:35:26 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.21.28] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:35:47 Shaftoe: This is not a standard function. 06:36:05 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.133] has joined #lisp 06:36:06 Shaftoe: mind the :key argument of most functions that take a :test argument. 06:36:17 yeah, that's where I'd want to use it 06:36:19 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has joined #lisp 06:36:36 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.133] has left #lisp 06:36:38 (find 42 '((1 . 2) (42 . 84) (50 . 100)) :test 'equalp :key 'car) --> (42 . 84) 06:36:55 ahhh. 06:37:02 I was concentrating on the :test key instead 06:37:54 pjb: that's exactly what I needed. Thank you 06:38:56 speaking of awesome libraries, alexandria and arnesi 06:39:13 I love having curry and rcurry around 06:39:25 and the anaphoric functions are fun too 06:41:17 Does the spec define which restarts (like ABORT) must be active when there is an unhandled condition? (OK, I'll go reading...) 06:43:25 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:45:52 Its availability seems to be "encouraged": http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/r_abort.htm 06:51:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.172.19] has joined #lisp 06:51:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.172.19] has quit [Changing host] 06:51:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:52:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-159-90.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:53:21 Has anyone here used IOLib's :local sockets? I can get IOLib to create the local socket, but I can't seem to properly get a client to CONNECT to it (I may just be expecting local sockets to work differently than they do) 06:55:06 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:55:12 Let me see, I believe this is their mapping to unix domain sockets but I could be wrong 06:56:30 sykopomp: :family :local is for unix sockets. (make-socket :address-family :local :type :stream :connect :passive :local-filename "/tmp/some-socket") 06:56:58 pjb: yeah, I've successfully created one that way. 06:57:05 You connect to them by opening the socket file IIRC. 06:57:10 sykopomp: so according the docs you need to create the pair 06:57:31 but that doesn't sound right 06:58:01 -!- Ansik [~user@117.33.101.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:22 pjb: but when I try to (connect (make-socket :connect :active) (make-address "/tmp/some-socket")), I can't seem to communicate. 06:58:54 I mean, generally speaking, that should start a connection, correct? 06:59:09 Ansik [~user@117.33.120.101] has joined #lisp 06:59:20 (make-socket :address-family :local :type :stream :connect :active :remote-filename "/tmp/some-socket") 06:59:37 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-90.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:41 oh right, the address-family! 06:59:54 That's what I have in some code, I'm not sure it's working. 07:00:33 That was exactly it. :) 07:00:36 ok 07:00:43 thank you! 07:01:57 otakutom_ [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:04:04 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:06:48 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:08:33 -!- otakutom_ [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:16:47 ltaoist [~mo@183.20.103.117] has joined #lisp 07:23:14 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 07:23:54 -!- naryl [~weechat@citadel.niflheim.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24:14 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26:01 ghoti- [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 07:35:45 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:35:59 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.118] has joined #lisp 07:36:04 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:38:23 -!- snits [~snits@71-223-162-11.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:40 Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 07:38:40 -!- neena [~neena@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:39:12 neena [~neena@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 07:40:59 snits [~snits@71-223-162-11.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:45 -!- levi` is now known as levi 07:42:06 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:43:12 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 07:46:42 anyone use json parsers? 07:46:51 I see a bunch of them on cliki. commentary? 07:47:56 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:48:02 mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has joined #lisp 07:49:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:51:35 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 07:54:20 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.133] has joined #lisp 07:56:11 what's the nice way of getting unstructured data from the world (e.g. in the form of xml or json) and internalizing it into the womb of one's application 07:56:46 e.g. I get a string that's xml, I can parse it, and I can even bind the values programatically. but how does one sanely deal with the fact that the xml might be *anything* ? 07:57:17 JSON is nice. 07:57:36 I've used both Yason and Jsown, and like them both. 07:57:53 I think the other ones bothered me for reasons I can't even remember. Probably the way they parsed keys. 07:59:12 ok. so if you've used that, you've probably had to deal with the last question I asked too 07:59:35 how do you sanely make the transition from completely freeform data to a well known signature inside your own code 07:59:57 um. That's what the parsers do? 08:00:11 no, I"ve got the parsed data. it's in the the form of a list. 08:00:25 so, I have raw text -> json|xml parser -> plist 08:00:33 it's not really freeform. Both XML and JSON have specified formats. You then agree on how that data will be structured. 08:00:34 -!- Cosman246 [~user@216.9.29.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:35 I want to take that and make it a lambda list. 08:01:11 Just pick out the bits you want and pass them around as you need? ;) 08:01:16 that's the part I'm talking about. I can agree all I want about how the data will be structured, but do you just assume your third party will always abide by that agreement? 08:01:39 what if there's a field that gets added that says ("warning" . "everything I just sent you is false")? =) 08:02:13 if you're really paranoid, you check the structure yourself. :) 08:02:25 and if it comes from an untrusted source, you should always do that. 08:02:25 indeed. 08:02:53 it's coming from a trusted source, and it even has versioning. I'm just not trustful of documentation 08:03:10 specifically, the docs say "it fails this way", but I've already had it fail in another way 08:03:33 so I'm concerned there's hidden functionality that's not well defined in docs. 08:04:02 a la "when jupiter is in the 3rd quadrant of the sky, everything I say needs to be xored" 08:04:04 blah. 08:04:11 -!- sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:04:12 I'm gonna give it a rest and just blindly read my data. 08:04:21 it's late and I think I'm being useless paranoid. 08:09:40 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:10:42 Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:13:13 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:13:18 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:15:06 -!- neena [~neena@76.73.121.203] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:15:44 -!- EmmanuelOga 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has joined #lisp 10:37:24 After updating hunchentoot from 1.1.1 to 1.2.2 *approved-return-codes* went to nirvana, and my application only shows the 'welcome to hunchentoot' page. 10:40:55 -!- sadeness_ [~vic@pdpc/supporter/active/sadeness] has quit [Quit: too late] 10:43:10 -!- Buglouse [~buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: #WeeChat #Mises #emacs] 10:45:28 Ah the second problem is becaus *default-handler* went to hell as well -.- 10:45:46 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:45:56 So I guess i'll just downgrade it again 10:53:24 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 10:53:36 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:53:39 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:39 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:53:40 bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 10:56:21 -!- 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[~tapioca@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:33:51 hi 11:34:05 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B32615A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:28 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has joined #lisp 11:35:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:36:22 hi 11:37:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:38:45 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:39:07 maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:24 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:49:57 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:50:21 -!- dlind_ [~david@h-2-37.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:50:36 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:51:06 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:19 -!- sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:51:45 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:52:13 paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-95-40-132-250.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has joined #lisp 11:52:34 Guthur [~user@host86-147-201-35.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:47 sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.44.254] has joined #lisp 11:52:59 I use slime through emacs, how do I evaluate all the definitions ( defun ) ... there are couple of eval cmd's but I'm confused 11:53:15 paul424: all the definitions in a flie? 11:53:21 -!- JKiiski [~JKiiski@178.239.192.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:40 yeah ? 11:54:00 paul424: read the slime manual. It's small and well writte. 11:54:24 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/ 11:55:50 pnq [~nick@ACA29897.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:59:19 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-045.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:00:18 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 12:00:21 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 12:00:39 check out M-x slime-cheat-sheet too. C-c C-k to compile entire file. C-c C-c to compile current function 12:02:25 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:02:37 ok ok thanks 12:03:16 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-320579.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:01 *paul424* brains is getting overheated . He starts supertuxkart :D 12:04:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:04:46 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-320579.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:06:55 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:10:22 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-4-174.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:28 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:19 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:27 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:12:28 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:12:34 -!- ihyoyoung_ [seoz@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:38 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 12:26:35 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:45 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hcfoxksekascglhw] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:28:03 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:28:21 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:28:23 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:30:07 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA29897.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:31:45 pnq [~nick@ACA29897.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:32:50 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:34:34 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:8a53:8940:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 12:35:58 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhzexyohwbpgexxx] has joined #lisp 12:37:10 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:37:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.50.192] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 12:39:27 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:41:19 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:43:15 francogrex [~user@109.130.6.47] has joined #lisp 12:47:33 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 12:49:19 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:50:20 *Guthur* considers buying a beefier PC just to compile things faster... 12:50:34 hear hear 12:50:53 compiling whole toolchains is horrible 12:51:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:57:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:57:55 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 12:59:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:05:12 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:07:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:08:57 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 13:12:19 Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:54 what are people using for cross-platform light object persistence nowadays? manardb doesn't work on mac, cl-prevalence? rucksack? 13:13:44 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:52 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:10 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 13:14:31 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:15:20 to answer that you probably need to qualify "people" 13:15:40 (to a smaller set than lisp programmers) 13:15:50 i've never used cl-store, but it looks sound, i use my own persistence myself 13:16:06 Lycurgus: that's irrelevant 13:16:25 let me rephrase: any light solutions that don't try to do too much; i have max 20k objects 13:16:54 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:16:58 how is irrelevant stassats` ? 13:17:40 vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:52 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:12 -!- vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:15 guaqua: and rucksack is nice too, so i'd try cl-store first, then rucksack 13:18:30 that's just my superficial impression of both 13:18:32 vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:19 stassats`: thanks! will take a stab (in my foot) 13:22:20 hey, is there a library that provides destructuring lambdas? as in, (funcall (dlambda ((a b) c) (+ a b c)) (list 2 3) 4) 13:23:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:24:16 (defmacro dlambda (args &body body) (with-gensyms (%args) `(lambda (&rest ,%args) (destructuring-bind args ,%args ,@body)))) 13:24:19 something like this 13:24:57 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:00 so, if it's trivial to write, why do you need a library? 13:25:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:25:49 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:12 although i don't see a merit in such thing, the amount of time i'd benefit from such a thing explicit DESTRUCTURING-BIND does its job 13:26:14 utility libraries that contain stuff that i want may also contain stuff that i don't yet know i want 13:31:43 is something wrong with defining local functions ? 13:31:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has joined #lisp 13:32:18 Is there some theorem or method of avoiding them ? 13:33:38 It depends on if you need lexical closures to pass through foreign functions or not. 13:33:49 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:33:50 there's nothing wrong 13:34:07 the general theorem is "if your code looks too large and unreadable, split it" 13:34:41 Mostly, it makes them hard to test as you can't call them directly. 13:35:07 -!- zfx [~zfx@host109-156-16-183.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:35:07 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 13:35:50 I'd suggest writing global functions first and converting them to local functions later if they work and are only needed locally. 13:36:46 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:00 ok 13:38:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:40:09 and i don't agree with dtw 13:40:20 (Of course trivial functions can be written right away.) 13:41:36 lisp connection broken by remote peer .... >_> 13:41:42 Can anyone please recommend a 2d or 2d geometry library that has datatypes for points, lines and segments and also supports stuff like vector algebra and maybe some simple geometric algorithms? 13:42:06 I've found one a few months ago but forgot the name. It was not cl-geometry btw 13:43:07 cl-vectors? 13:44:19 benny [~benny@i577A8B4F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:16 zfx: well that's not that bad but it does not have functions that determine if a point is on a segment or in a polygone. But I might implement that myself 13:50:40 zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.18.250] has joined #lisp 13:51:24 Ah, l-math seems to fit me well 13:51:30 -!- zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.18.250] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:52:14 zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.18.250] has joined #lisp 13:52:37 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:54:05 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:59:40 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 14:01:27 cnl [~cnl@95.106.111.171] has joined #lisp 14:01:32 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA29897.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:03:51 pnq [~nick@ACA29897.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:03 french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:16 Hi, 14:05:16 common lisp send back +:nil is not number, why ? 14:06:05 because it's not a number 14:06:14 huh? what's +:nil ? 14:06:29 #+:nil ? 14:06:57 read-macro ? 14:07:09 Hello. How do I process data from /dev/input/js0 for example? It has no length and I do not know when I should receive new event. It is obviously catched with kbhit() in C, but what with common lisp? 14:07:11 + is a function 14:07:28 (+ 0 nil) ? 14:07:29 aah 14:07:32 lol 14:07:39 not necessarily 0 14:08:10 the way he wrote it didn't make any sense 14:09:02 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:19 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-230-159.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:09:50 Isn't +:nil a reader macro turning off reading the following form? 14:10:06 no 14:10:12 #+nil is 14:10:13 <|3b|``> no, +:nil is the symbol named "NIL" exported from the package "+" 14:10:16 #+:nil 14:10:17 (serving a function of a form-length comment?) 14:10:25 Ah. 14:11:16 I try to create a recursive function who compte the number of word in a list who begin by a letter give in argument. 14:11:17 means something like unconditionally suppress the evaluation of the following form..... 14:11:26 I doubt there is any package named +, it's very dumb to name it so 14:11:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:11:51 <|3b|``> also #+nil isn't "turn off reading", what it does depends on whether :NIL is in *FEATURES* or not 14:11:51 |3b|``: i wouldn't trust french to be able properly communicate his problem 14:12:07 <|3b|``> (it is commonly used that way though, since :NIL usually isn't in *features*) 14:12:24 |3b|``: Well, obviously, but normally you wouldn't expect NIL in *FEATURES*. At least I don't. 14:12:43 what about New Implementation of Lisp? 14:13:04 <|3b|``> if you are going to rely on things like that, why not use something shorter like #++? :) 14:13:05 :) 14:13:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:14:16 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:44 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 -!- |3b|`` is now known as |3b| 14:17:07 It's my function : http://pastebin.com/qxUzvFsg 14:17:24 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:17:57 +1 is clearly wrong 14:18:07 why 14:18:12 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:14 it should be 1+ 14:18:42 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:19:04 french: and ((not liste) nil) should be (not liste) 0) 14:19:47 Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 14:20:11 -!- Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 14:20:19 or rather ((not liste) 0), but you got the gist 14:20:27 In my book, it's written ((not liste)nil) nil equal 0 14:20:30 Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 14:20:48 throw your book out of the window 14:20:55 lol 14:21:12 or you're just misinterpreting what it says 14:22:47 I try to learn, and for lisp there are not lot of book about lisp 14:22:56 in any case, with my suggested correction 14:22:59 it works 14:23:07 french: what book are you reading? 14:23:37 i would recommend http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ "A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" 14:24:05 stassats`: The Gigamonkey book is much better for someone who already understands programming. 14:24:14 Introduction a lisp but I take too Lisp of patrick henry winston 14:24:17 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:52 loke: i'm left with the impression that Gentle is the right book in this case 14:25:15 stassats`: fair enough, I only skimmed the beginning of the discussion 14:25:37 french: Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation is very easy to follow, you should give it a try 14:26:16 ok thanks, I try to find this book 14:26:21 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:26:38 stassats`: personally, I found Gentle to be incredibly long-winded. It could be because I already knew what was in it though (I browser through it to figure out who the intended reader is). I can't help but feel that many readers (with pre-existing programming experience) will get bored before the first line of code is written. 14:26:39 you can download it online 14:27:26 french: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/book.pdf 14:27:45 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:28:39 Great book very thanks 14:28:42 french: what is your previous programming experience? 14:29:17 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:29:35 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:29:58 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:54 I am a noob in programming, I know python a little but in my job I work with autocad 14:31:07 a job in industrie 14:31:13 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:31:14 myrkraverk [~johann@157-157-140-89.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #lisp 14:31:14 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@157-157-140-89.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has quit [Changing host] 14:31:14 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 14:31:28 french: are you trying to learn Autolisp? 14:31:28 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.6.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:46 because none of the mentioned books are about Autolisp 14:32:07 no i try to learn lisp 14:32:17 but knowing Common Lisp will help with any other Lisp as well 14:32:47 yes 14:34:49 -!- naryl [~weechat@citadel.niflheim.info] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 14:35:06 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 14:36:15 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has joined #lisp 14:37:35 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:39:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:39:59 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:13 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 14:44:07 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.171] has joined #lisp 14:47:04 can you look why the slime crashses at compile time : slime-events buffer " http://pastebin.com/9DCZDbfx 14:48:08 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:00 slime crashes? 14:49:33 the server whats' its name .. .swine or swan .. 14:49:38 swank 14:49:46 paul424: can you also paste *inferior-lisp* 14:49:47 osa1 [~sinan@88.241.57.102] has joined #lisp 14:50:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:50:24 http://pastebin.com/YSFseE8A 14:50:37 inferior lisp ^^^ 14:51:33 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:52:05 -!- zepard [~zepard@unaffiliated/zepard] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:52:11 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.241] has joined #lisp 14:52:13 paul424: it says that there was a stack overflow, now, can you paste the file you're trying to compile? 14:53:16 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:53:22 example.lisp : http://pastebin.com/LZE1aNMh 14:54:40 ok, i can reproduce this 14:55:00 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.241.57.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:55:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:56:01 so ??? 14:56:08 ((car list) ) is not a legal syntax 14:57:11 that's not the reasone to crash the whole ENV. 14:57:20 that's clisp for you 14:57:31 try using SBCL or Clozure CL instead 14:57:59 uhh I will try look ar t 14:58:13 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA29897.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:01:05 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:02:34 and it's possible that the problem is in slime 15:03:03 so move to Clozure CL ... 15:03:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:03:21 huh and reinstall slime in it ? 15:03:39 you don't need to reinstall slime 15:04:01 you just modify inferior-lisp-program variable in Emacs to point to the lisp you want to start 15:04:11 ok 15:04:19 or C-u M-x slime for a quick-test 15:04:56 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:26 With variable slime-lisp-implementations user can configure several implementations. They work simultaneously. 15:06:54 dtw: err dude read my logs :D , I run clisp with no problems 15:07:20 except that it crashes? 15:07:23 ? 15:07:28 -!- Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:07:58 well .... except that. 15:08:28 i'm in the process of fixing this bug 15:09:21 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:42 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 15:10:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:10:18 -!- french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:19 stassats: are you slime developer ? 15:10:33 yes, one of the 15:11:49 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:11:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:12:00 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:14:11 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:43 ok. I use the policy of listening to the wiser ones ... 15:14:53 stassats: ... lucky few ? 15:15:01 *paul424* shifts to clozure cl 15:15:16 iolib question: is it possible to have multiple event-dispatch loops in multiple threads handling the same sockets? 15:15:21 fe[nl]ix: if you call that lucky 15:15:37 Yuuhi [benni@p5483ABEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:53 sykopomp: I don't know, try it 15:18:40 that's likely to be OS-dependent 15:18:41 fe[nl]ix: well, I could, but that's not really gonna guarantee an answer, since i might never happen to hit a race or something. 15:18:51 hm, alright. 15:19:12 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:31 fe[nl]ix: is there any other way to have multiple threads listening on the same port? 15:20:46 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:56 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:44 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:22:47 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:26 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:23:32 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:23:46 sykopomp: my guess is if you register the same FD with multiple epoll instances, all will be notified of an incoming connection 15:24:30 just make sure that you then call accept-connection :wait nil and check that it returns a socket(instead of NIL) 15:25:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:25:18 Hm. I guess that then leaves the issue of load balancing across the multiple threads. 15:26:20 fe[nl]ix: thanks for the tip. I think I'll try that. 15:26:24 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:28:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:37 slime uses an internal function of Clisp and looks like it was changed in november of 2009 15:28:38 sykopomp: if all tasks are computationally equivalent, you can use a priority queue to keep track of the number of clients assigned to each worker thread 15:29:03 and i'm not really sure that nobody uses clisp dating back to 2009, so i'd have to make sure it's backward compatible 15:29:27 sykopomp: and the listener thread pushes incoming connections to the least busy worker thread 15:29:45 fe[nl]ix: wow, thank you. That does sound really easy :S 15:30:32 vc-annotate is quite slow on mercurial and clisp's repository 15:30:36 oh well 15:31:55 ok moved to clozure cl, now it works properly it even informs exactly about the syntax errors and what proper exp are expected .... not bad ! 15:31:59 stassats: :P 15:32:03 :* 15:32:22 osa1 [~sinan@78.175.15.148] has joined #lisp 15:33:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:17 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:23 mrSpec [~Spec@188.21.162.214] has joined #lisp 15:37:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@188.21.162.214] has quit [Changing host] 15:37:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:37:45 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:38:11 paul424: alright, fixed and committed, thanks for the report 15:38:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:42:30 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:42:45 -!- paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-95-40-132-250.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:22 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:45:41 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46:42 sykopomp: it's easy but won't work well unless the model is correct 15:48:35 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.100.101] has joined #lisp 15:49:16 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:49:31 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 15:50:57 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:51:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-045.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:16 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 15:53:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:46 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:53:46 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:54:12 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.28] has joined #lisp 15:54:23 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:55:49 now to fix slime for ECL, looks like its debugger is broken as well 15:56:22 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 15:56:58 or not, looks like something with the protocol, which causes perpetual errors and a stack overflow 15:57:03 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:57:10 i wonder why nobody has reported that yet 15:57:17 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:57:59 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.51] has joined #lisp 15:58:03 mjs2600 [~user@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:25 -!- ltaoist [~mo@183.20.103.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:53 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-48-81.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:02:54 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-230-159.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 16:05:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:06:32 stassats: because swank-ecl is known to be buggy so nobody uses it 16:06:52 well, it was working previously 16:06:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:07:01 and not reporting bugs is a sure way for it to stay buggy 16:07:24 compj [~compj@p54BF440C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:24 *maxm-* sometimes finds bugs so huge, that I somehow become much more interested in debugging how the it was possible for software to work at all with that bug, then in fixing it 16:10:35 usually its like a huge cascade of coincidences 16:12:12 Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 16:12:28 -!- compj [~compj@p54BF440C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: compj] 16:12:34 compj [~compj@p54BF440C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:18 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-48-81.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:47 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.175.15.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:51 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-48-81.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:17:16 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:38 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:21:29 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-48-81.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:21:37 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:22:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:23:07 and ECL is really not easy to debug," ;;; Stack overflow. ;;; Jumping to the outermost toplevel prompt", no backtrace, no nothing 16:23:22 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:06 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:26:02 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:02 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:26:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:29:11 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:11 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:31:07 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-220-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:46 ok, slime without slime-repl is fixed, now onto slime-repl 16:35:07 hefner: are you there? 16:37:40 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-059.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:39:47 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:40:32 chykrkr [~user@14.33.85.74] has joined #lisp 16:41:55 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129105005.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 16:44:10 Blkt [~user@82.84.158.49] has joined #lisp 16:46:35 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:56 maden [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 16:47:19 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:47:58 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: gone] 16:48:16 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:50:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:44 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 16:50:52 ahoy there. I have a question of unknown unknowns. Is there a standard functiont hat does (find "string-name" foo :test #'equalp :key #'car) ? 16:51:15 this signature would correspond to parsed xml data structures 16:51:28 FIND does this 16:51:36 that's what I'm using. 16:51:37 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:51:41 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 16:51:46 so, what are you asking? 16:51:50 I'm just wondering if there's an even shorter hand version of that. 16:51:55 that maybe I don't know about. 16:52:01 Not really 16:52:19 aight. 16:52:21 flet it is. 16:52:24 thanks. 16:52:53 Shaftoe: (assoc "string-name" foo :test #'equalp) 16:52:55 I would say if your first thought was wrapping that in a function for a common use case, you're on the right track 16:53:59 stassats, yeah, assoc is already better, thanks. 16:54:35 sbyrant: it's not global enough that I'm going to make a function out of it (would have to think of all edge cases), but I"m going to locally flet it, yes. 16:56:49 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:56:54 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 16:57:09 limetree: what's up? 16:57:14 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:41 hefner: i was wondering about mpg123-ffi. it's exporting frameinfo-bitrate etc, but shouldn't it be frame-info-*? 16:58:58 hmm. 16:59:14 rme_ [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 16:59:53 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.52.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:05 -!- sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.44.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:00:10 limetree: no, the intent was to have a mostly 1:1 correspondence with the C names. mpg123.h defines it as struct_frameinfo 17:00:13 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 17:00:15 er, struct mpg123_frameinfo 17:00:33 but the conc-name is frame-info- 17:00:55 oh, so it is. 17:01:03 alright, ECL is up and working, finding wasn't easy (ECL debugger sucks), but the fix is quite trivial 17:01:09 typo? 17:02:00 so, if anyone likes to use ECL with slime, it's working again 17:02:07 sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.45.237] has joined #lisp 17:02:30 limetree: looks like it. I'll push a fix. 17:02:36 *stassats* waits until ECL is broken again 17:03:11 ok, cool 17:04:29 ugh, my slime repl has turned read-only 17:04:39 next bug: cmucl not working with :spawn 17:05:20 limetree: kill the buffer, then go to M-x slime-list-connections and press RET on the connection 17:05:43 this should create a new repl buffer 17:06:06 yay, thanks. 17:06:22 if you know how to reproduce this, that'd be great 17:08:04 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-206-130.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:05 ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:08:07 i guess it's possible that i hit C-x C-q but i'm pretty sure the modeline didn't indicate read-only-ness 17:09:20 how can I loop over a list and also have a variable that holds the loop variable value from the last iteration step? 17:09:27 yes, slime-repl marks some parts read-only, and it was possible that this was inherited to other parts 17:09:42 slime-repl output code is such an incomprehensible mess that everything is possible 17:10:28 sepi: (loop for previous = nil then element for element in list ...) 17:10:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:10:35 sepi: iterate has previous 17:10:55 stassats: thanks! 17:10:55 sepi: what do you want to do that? 17:11:17 stassats: well I need to create segments from a list of vertices 17:11:37 daimrod: hmm, I'll also have a look at iterate, I don't like loop to much 17:11:40 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:12:14 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:12:15 sepi: that doesn't explain much 17:12:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:54 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:14 stassats: well, I have a list of points and neet to call (line p1 p2) for all consecutive pairs of points in the list 17:14:27 s/neet/need/ 17:14:28 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:28 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:14:29 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:14:30 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:8a53:8940:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:16 so if the points are in a list together and you want to group them in loop you can by using on, by, in 17:15:29 sepi: then maybe use: (loop for (a b) on '(1 2 3 4) by #'cddr collect (list a b)) => ((1 2) (3 4)) ? 17:15:48 and then using destructuring to refer to them as p1,p2 or whathave you 17:15:49 ^ 17:15:51 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:55 or without cddr, it'l be ((1 2) (2 3) (3 4) (4 NIL)) 17:15:57 stassats, fine just give him the code. 17:16:02 -!- chykrkr [~user@14.33.85.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-059.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:16:29 sbryant: already did 17:17:36 :P 17:17:47 aha, I'll give it a try 17:20:11 alexandria sure has some great utilities. 17:20:19 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:20:25 I guess that's old news to the old hats =) 17:21:15 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:15 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:21:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@mobile-198-228-195-056.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:55 hefner: i'm noticing some weird behavior. the first time a call mpg123-info on a particular file the bitrate field is set to 24000, and subsequent times 320 (which is obviously the correct value) 17:21:59 oh well, i hope nobody uses cmucl with threaded communication on slime, because i don't really see how to debug it 17:22:10 hefner: have you noticed anything like that? 17:22:50 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-320579.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:39 sbryant: stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127717 Thats what I do now 17:26:36 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 17:27:04 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:20 looks ok 17:27:34 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:00 Demosthenes [~demo@mdd2c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:03 looks okay to me. Just out of curiosity what does points look like? 17:29:12 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 17:29:45 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:08 sepi: does order matter? 17:30:35 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:08 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:08 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:31:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:31:25 let me paste what i mean 17:31:49 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:32:13 sepi: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127717#1 17:32:23 (polygon '(1 2 3 4)) => ((1 2) (2 3) (3 4) (4 1)) 17:32:53 instead of ((4 1) (1 2) (2 3) (3 4)) 17:33:12 (it's faster and conses less) 17:33:13 limetree: no, but I think I see a problem. are you following the version from git? 17:34:42 hefner: mixalot-20120107-git (from quicklisp) 17:36:27 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 limetree: I pushed a change to my copy on github which I think will fix it, but I don't feel like coding up a test case that uses mpg123-info (apparently nothing in shuffletron or mixalot uses it). 17:38:24 ok. i'll try it out in a while. 17:38:37 limetree: it's trivial, you could maybe patch your local copy, if that's a kosher thing for quicklispers to do: https://github.com/ahefner/mixalot/commit/9a5118f0f6b72b1224e5321c02e31c322a90bb80 17:38:39 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-049.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:39:03 -!- diginet [~diginet@ppp-69-153-141-111.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:28 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:36 I'll take a wild guess that the foreign structure gets copied somewhere, somehow, and having the wrong foreign type trashes it, but it somehow works by accident the second time. (?) 17:39:42 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:40:45 bozhidar [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:41:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:41:17 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 17:41:24 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:45:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:45:09 sacho [~sacho@95-42-88-244.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 17:45:28 hefner: it still behaves the same way 17:45:32 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:42 -!- bozhidar [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:46:31 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:49 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:48:57 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 17:48:59 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:18 sometimes the bitrate gets set to 0 17:49:27 johan` [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:49:43 woohoo, added tags to my news.arc site 17:49:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:50:07 arc is interesting 17:50:13 -!- johan` [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:43 hefner: if you want to i could give you a small test case 17:51:06 jdmssmkr [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:51:25 -!- kmcorbett [kmcorbett@clozure-9FE07BBF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:38 -!- jdmssmkr [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:42 limetree: I'd like that. 17:51:44 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-057-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:22 jdmssmkr [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:52:30 -!- jdmssmkr [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:51 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129105005.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:54:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54:19 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 17:55:26 pnq [~nick@ACA357C2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:56 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:22 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 17:58:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.100.101] has left #lisp 17:59:33 hefner: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127719 18:00:11 i've been getting some memory errors from sbcl too 18:00:25 i don't remember exactly what it said 18:00:37 I just hacked up a test and got one of those too. 18:01:49 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:38 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:08:14 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:01 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #lisp 18:12:35 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.185] has joined #lisp 18:14:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:15:34 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:15:54 *hefner* is tempted to try this in ECL, just because he knows how to debug that with gdb 18:18:15 -!- k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:19:26 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:19:31 adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:34 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA357C2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:43 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:19:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:27 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:58 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-147-201-35.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:09 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:10 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:21:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:21:37 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:16 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-128.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:27 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mdd2c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:26:40 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:27:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29:00 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:29:19 JiggyBlkMn [~JiggyBlkM@200.38.31.146.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:44 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 18:30:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:31:30 k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:10 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:34:40 -!- JiggyBlkMn [~JiggyBlkM@200.38.31.146.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has quit [K-Lined] 18:36:40 rudi_ [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 18:37:34 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 18:42:10 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:10 In asdf, if I declare a module as :serial t, will its component modules inherit that setting? 18:45:17 -!- zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.18.250] has quit [Quit: ] 18:48:23 -!- maden [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:35 dlowe: just yesterday, i spent a while headscratching as to why a macro wasn't being seen after I moved it to a different file. 18:50:46 turns out my module needed :serial t 18:50:48 ;) 18:51:15 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:52:05 sykopomp: I have a complicated project, and I'm trying to get a new directory structure to work properly 18:52:09 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@ip-89-176-173-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:25 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 18:54:13 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 18:55:37 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 18:55:46 Greetings lispers 18:56:55 ok, the answer to my question is empirically no 18:57:49 lisp has one of the most powerful yet frustrating compile/edit/build cycle 18:57:51 If anyone here has an Elance account, there was a job posted this week looking for someone to build a lisp website application. 18:58:01 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 18:58:02 So far, there are only 2 proposals. 18:58:09 And neither look like lispers 18:58:19 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:29 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:58:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:41 technically, I think I have 18:58:42 maxm-: why frustrating? 18:58:43 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has joined #lisp 18:59:12 dlowe: works in 98% of cases, hard to reproduce/debug when fails 18:59:26 one of the best tests, is use 'compile-system rather then load-system 18:59:29 from scratch 18:59:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:59:41 maxm-: It's all perspective. I can hardle stand the E/B/C of any other language. 18:59:50 this quickly uncovers lots of forgotten (eval-whens) around stuff 19:00:13 I prefer to put stuff in different files rather than use eval-when 19:00:30 more sanity all around 19:00:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:42 frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust535.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:48 dlowe: yea thats what I end up doing, but kind of weird to have class and its methods in different files 19:01:06 you shouldn't need eval-when for defclass 19:01:11 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:15 maxm-: A class doesn't have methods in the CLOS 19:01:41 dlowe: if you have defclass and then defmethod specializing on it in the file, I find that often file does not load at first due to some compile error in the method 19:01:42 maxm-: Besides, methods specialized on a specific class don't need to be in a different file. 19:01:56 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust535.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:04 I think if you have a method with a single argument specialized on a class, I think it's reasonable to say that the class "has" the method 19:02:05 so fixing the method manually, and doing C-c C-c still does not work, because entire FASL did not load, so class is not yet defined 19:02:38 latest slime really puts fasl compile failures in your face 19:02:44 so yes while its not nessesary for perfectly written code that compiles at 1st try, but in reality (at least for me) its a bit nessesary 19:02:57 dlowe: that's configurable 19:03:08 Anywho, I hope to see some lisper win that Elance project. 19:03:26 stassats`: no doubt. I like not being able to ignore them, though 19:03:40 ok 19:03:48 but anyway, those are small price to pay for speed of development and flexibility 19:03:51 for reasons mentioned previously 19:04:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:34 Elance Lisp Project -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/127721 19:06:21 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:21 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:06:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:06:31 *Fade* wonders if the ruinwesen.com guy is a #lisp person 19:07:01 Fade: wesen is. 19:07:20 Wooh, I just noticed that now there is only 1 proposal, the other one was withdrawn. 19:08:34 ThomasH: $1000 is a pretty small budget for that job, isn't it? 19:08:51 hefner: *nod* 19:09:01 i thought it was just one person. :) 19:09:26 nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba4421.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:35 rme_: given the kinds of budgets I see... it's quite good 19:09:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 19:10:02 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:10:03 that elance posting is pretty funny. poster explicitly asks for a CL programmer, and only responses are spam from a VB dude and a UNIX/C guy. 19:10:09 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:10:13 is that just typical of elance? 19:10:15 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:16 rme_: I'll defer to p_l, I don't do web development. Most of the engineering jobs posted on Elance are too low, though. 19:10:17 dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:30 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:10:36 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:46 ThomasH: I think it's more about freelancing sites 19:10:56 *ThomasH* nodes 19:11:00 *nods* 19:11:00 Fade: no, that's typical of public job bidding sites 19:11:13 Not sure what nodes is. 19:11:25 ah. I haven't used same. 19:11:34 Fade: people started to include 'passwords' in the postings, that you have to include in your proposal 19:11:40 to show that you actually read it 19:11:48 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-75-201.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:30 I rarely submit proposals, and usually only if it is a small job that looks interesting. Something to occupy an evening or 2. 19:13:01 p_l: have you picked up gigs using these kinds of site? 19:13:15 Never make money on them. I think of it as the lottery, there's a 1 in a million chance that some sweet job will show up. 19:13:26 Fade: little 19:13:54 *nod* 19:13:59 I lack the clout of finished jobs and such, as well as often find out a lack of time, even if I find a 'compatible' job 19:14:28 well, the CL posting ThomasH pointed out wants only U.S. based contractors. 19:14:41 eliminating a great many of us. :) 19:14:51 although for the money it isn't worth the trouble. 19:15:30 well, if you have no other job prospects and want to brush your lisp skills 19:15:38 Fade: The location is noted as 'Anywhere'. 19:15:50 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:13 stassats: Exactly, I did a javascript job one time just to have an excuse to use Javascript, hadn't used it in years. 19:16:46 https://www.elance.com/j/lisp-website-application/28604330 19:16:48 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:02 odesk tends to have more interesting postings 19:17:03 right in the header "W9 required (U.S. contractors only)" 19:17:16 Fade: That means if you live in the US you have to submit a W9 19:17:27 ah 19:17:42 i sometimes wish there was an oxford comma for context. 19:17:44 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 19:18:41 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:54 Maybe I should post this somewhere else, lest this job reinforces the perception that you can't find lispers. 19:19:26 submit it to the lisp subreddit 19:21:14 situ [~situ@223.183.157.200] has joined #lisp 19:21:32 Yeah, and lisp forum too. I'll have to register on reddit. 19:22:14 -!- situ [~situ@223.183.157.200] has left #lisp 19:27:23 maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:18 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:29:22 fAz4 [~amir@95.38.52.65] has joined #lisp 19:29:31 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:30:34 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:20 is there any book on Functional programming like Design Patterns book for Object oriented programming ? 19:32:05 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:32:10 -!- maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:32:55 it doesn't need such books 19:32:59 Object-Oriented Functional Programming? Is that a thing? 19:33:24 Design Patterns are only needed for broken languages 19:33:29 fAz4: Purely Functional Data Structures 19:33:42 no i mean a refrence book how to design correct functional programs 19:33:59 fAz4: This one is popular: http://www.amazon.com/Purely-Functional-Structures-Chris-Okasaki/dp/0521663504/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329075223&sr=8-1-fkmr1 19:34:08 and note, this channel isn't about functional programming 19:34:44 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.161.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:47 stassats: yeah, i know 19:35:32 austinh: thanks for link 19:35:54 *dlowe* is chopped liver. 19:35:56 fAz4: You might also be interested in this: http://norvig.com/design-patterns/ 19:36:20 dlowe: you don't have links! 19:36:21 Great googily moogily, the 'ASCII Form Conversion Utility' example in the IGES 5.3 spec is written in Fortran 77. 19:36:34 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.117.139] has joined #lisp 19:38:45 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:39:09 msmith2 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-151-137.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:45 -!- msmith [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-143-106.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:40:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:42:26 hefner: peons ? 19:43:43 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:49 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:03 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:07 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-10-204.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:44:24 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:44:30 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-44-176.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:44:34 pnq [~nick@AC810303.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:45 vantage|2 [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has joined #lisp 19:44:54 fe[nl]ix: sorry, I don't follow. 19:44:58 ThomasH: I think it was fitting choice 19:45:00 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.107.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:43 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:02 fe[nl]ix: ah, reddit? I still don't understand the question. 19:47:15 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:47:33 p_l: The best part is: "The program is known to fail to convert a file from Compressed ASCII Format to regular ASCII Format if the file contains any string constant compressed such that an ASCII character D falls into column one." 19:48:09 hefner: funny choice of word 19:48:27 p_l: So, it's totally up to chance if it works or not. 19:49:27 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:49:41 yetifoot [~user@unaffiliated/yetifoot] has joined #lisp 19:49:44 -!- yetifoot [~user@unaffiliated/yetifoot] has left #lisp 19:49:45 fe[nl]ix: it's not an uncommon idiom when being sarcastically self-deprecating 19:50:10 ThomasH: from what I have seen, D in column one wasn't common 19:50:21 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:50:38 syamajala [~syamajala@2002:a027:ca4f:a:d1d4:9991:f196:d72b] has joined #lisp 19:50:49 p_l: Ok, good. I'm not familiar with IGES files, just looking through it to get an idea of what is involved. 19:51:04 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:21 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:29 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:06 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:39 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@2002:a027:ca4f:a:d1d4:9991:f196:d72b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:23 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:54:02 ThomasH: I'm not too familiar either, just skimmed a bit of what was available 19:54:16 don't take me as gospel :) 19:54:55 vantage|3 [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has joined #lisp 19:54:55 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:56:06 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:56:09 p_l: I've become motivated by licensing fees to develop my own geometry generation routines. I think it's best to stick with IGES and STEP, just trying to figure out if I can get either up and running quickly. 19:56:13 -!- vantage|2 [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:22 For my purposes, at least. 19:59:01 -!- vantage|3 is now known as vantage|home 20:00:39 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 20:03:03 Raz_ [~Raz@cpc1-cmbg15-2-0-cust883.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:10 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.117.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:12 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:58 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:02 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:07 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:07 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:07:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:08:52 -!- Raz_ [~Raz@cpc1-cmbg15-2-0-cust883.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 20:11:41 -!- fAz4 [~amir@95.38.52.65] has left #lisp 20:13:13 sbelmont [~user@211.59.199.247] has joined #lisp 20:13:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:14:09 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has joined #lisp 20:14:58 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:58 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:14:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:16:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:43 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-5-249.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.205.249] has joined #lisp 20:19:56 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.44.12] has joined #lisp 20:20:30 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.44.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:44 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.44.12] has joined #lisp 20:22:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.200.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:22:14 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 20:23:44 limetree: I think the problem is that there's some undocumented constraint on when you can call mpg123_info. The way our tests are doing it, the decoder hasn't read any frames yet, and not everything in the handle is initialized. 20:24:08 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:23 limetree: for instance, if you call mpg123-getformat on the handle before mpg123-info, it works reliably. 20:24:39 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:49 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:25:33 -!- sbelmont [~user@211.59.199.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:48 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:17 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-162-233.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:27:20 hefner: oh, weird. i noticed get-tags-from-file does that, and i couldn't see why. 20:28:09 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-162-233.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:41 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:30:24 Frijolenstein [~USUARIO@201.170.65.102.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:26 francogrex [~user@109.130.6.47] has joined #lisp 20:33:45 Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:34:08 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-057-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:03 Window 12 20:35:23 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 20:36:24 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:43 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-162-233.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:38:50 -!- Frijolenstein [~USUARIO@201.170.65.102.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has quit [K-Lined] 20:39:03 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-162-233.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:16 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-162-233.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:41:42 -!- sepi [c8dkxg9a40@hcl-club.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:42:06 sepi [k7c5m0vj12@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 20:42:29 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 20:42:39 hefner: it seems to work here too now. thanks! 20:43:04 limetree: no problem, had some debugging fun. 20:43:15 did that get rid of the memory errors too? 20:43:25 limetree: yeah, that was a symptom of the same problem. 20:43:27 elatedpixel [~elatedpix@cpe-174-097-005-182.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:50 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:46:14 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 20:46:28 does anyone have lukego's current email address? 20:47:14 pkhuong: luke@teclo.net 20:48:57 this is ridiculous; we need a journal of awesome bit twiddling hacks instead of relying on folklore and word of mouth. 20:49:02 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:49:29 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 20:49:58 maybe alexandria should have separate projects for various classes of base utility software. 20:50:00 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-118-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:03 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 20:50:35 http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/hbaker/hakmem/hakmem.html 20:51:33 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:52:03 Hi there. I am trying to resize a png with cl-gd preserving the alpha channel. 20:52:23 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.199.168] has joined #lisp 20:53:10 In the documentation of cl-gd I can see that save-alpha-p exists for that purpose, however if I do (setf (save-alpha-p myimage) T) in the form of a (with-image) call, I get an 'odd number of &KEY arguments' error. 20:53:16 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 20:54:02 Fade: why? 20:54:46 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129182075.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 20:55:02 because it's already a collection of best-of-breed hacks for various things 20:55:26 why do you need to separate them? 20:55:33 phryk: can you post your code? 20:55:47 dlowe: that's old, incomplete and doesn't include new stuff. 20:55:47 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.44.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:43 pkhuong: i guess gigamonkey's Code Quarterly should be well suited for stuff like this 20:56:50 well, it seems to me that not all of the utilities are related, and if it is extended with things like bit twiddlers and other stuff, it's going to get large. 20:56:55 I thought code quarterly was discontinued. 20:56:56 stassats`: it's dead. 20:57:04 so the utilities are logically separated. 20:57:05 already? oh well 20:57:18 yeah, i see now 20:57:34 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:54 For things as mainstream as integer division by constants, I see a lot of duplicated efforts because papers are all over the place. I don't want to know how awful it is for more obscure operations. 20:59:55 sbryant: http://paste.lisp.org/+2QJV. 20:59:59 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 21:00:43 sbryant: That version works, as soon as I uncomment the save-alpha-p line, it gives me the 'odd &key arguments'-error. 21:04:50 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-162-233.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:02 okay, look at (describe 'cl-gd:save-alpha-p) 21:06:24 it looks like it wants a key for the setf 21:06:50 so (setf (save-alpha-p :image thumbnail)) 21:07:12 that's a strange API 21:07:19 rgc [~user@162.Red-79-153-88.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:25 Indeed 21:07:38 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 21:08:04 sbryant: The arguments are described as: (&OPTIONAL (IMAGE *DEFAULT-IMAGE*)) 21:08:09 vairav [~vairav@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:22 wouldn't that mean that image is only an optional argument, not a key argument? o_O 21:08:49 Not for the setf 21:09:06 nice. they broke the contract on places. 21:09:12 Indeed they did 21:09:30 phryk: so it's a place and has a different function signature for some reason 21:09:50 https://gist.github.com/1810861 21:11:00 Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:12:00 sbryant: aah, okay 21:12:02 maybe that's a type, it clearly should've been &optional 21:12:02 phryk: no, keys can have default arguments too 21:12:28 write to the author 21:12:31 I would image under (with-image) *default-image* will be bound to image 21:12:36 but you never no 21:12:45 always yes? 21:12:47 so you could just potentially avoid worrying 21:12:51 err never know 21:12:56 since the api is already strange 21:13:47 from the html doc, (setf (save-alpha-p &optional image) save), so it's a typo 21:14:13 indeed it is 21:14:59 sbryant: Okay, with the key :image it doesn't fail anymore, but transparency still doesn't work :/ 21:15:09 did you turn on blending? 21:15:17 H4ns: are you in charge of cl-gd as well? 21:15:18 alpha-blending-p 21:15:34 sbryant: nope, gimme a sec. 21:17:06 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:17:25 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.188] has joined #lisp 21:18:52 sbryant: Doesn't make any difference :< 21:19:50 weirdly enough though for alpha-blending-p (setf (alpha-blending-p thumbnail) T) is right 21:20:12 phryk: we've already established that that was a typo 21:20:33 You mean by the author of cl-gd? 21:20:37 yes 21:20:42 Ah okay. 21:21:12 and someone should report it 21:21:32 someone being me^^ 21:22:14 -!- vairav [~vairav@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:30 Does Edi Weitz hangoing in #lisp? 21:22:38 no 21:22:49 :( 21:23:22 proof by contradiction: Suppose he did, then he wouldn't have time to write all that code. QED 21:23:38 nice. 21:24:17 he doesn't write it anymore anyway 21:24:31 So... he *is* hanging out on #lisp. 21:24:34 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:47 *ThomasH* looks around 21:25:03 I can surely say that I'm not edi weitz. 21:25:37 what happened to him? did you had enough of programming? 21:26:10 redline6561 was telling me something about him at LispWorks or something but I don't know 21:29:17 vairav [~vairav@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:48 was he considered the 'God' of lisp programming? 21:32:05 He just did a lot 21:32:11 Especially for web programming 21:32:35 http://weitz.de/ 21:32:42 he wrote a number of good documented quality software 21:33:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:14 francogrex: I always think 'Guru' is a better word. 21:33:32 I think at least hunchentoot was developed further in the last half of 2011. 21:33:54 H4ns took over hunchentoot development 21:33:58 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:34:06 Ah okay. 21:34:41 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:42 naryl [~weechat@citadel.niflheim.info] has joined #lisp 21:35:01 who's the Guru now? 21:35:15 I don't think there has to be one. 21:35:20 Sebboh [~hobbes@ip24-252-13-179.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:47 francogrex: Brucio 21:36:33 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.158.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:28 is there some story behind Brucio? 21:37:28 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:43 *sbryant* is still a new lisper 21:37:50 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:38:20 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 21:38:39 -!- Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 21:40:23 can anyone tell me how to reference functions that are loaded into another file? for instance, I'm trying to use pregexp 21:40:42 sbryant: he had a funny blog 21:41:00 msmith2: What is pregexp? 21:41:04 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:11 regex library 21:41:18 but now has sold out to arc or something, or tried to outcrazy arc, i don't remember really 21:41:28 msmith2: cl-ppcre ? 21:41:44 *hefner* is relieved to know there aren't regular expressions capable of giving birth. Yet. 21:41:56 William Frederick Schelter ? 21:42:06 who's that? 21:42:13 msmith2: okay, so asdf handling code loading but if you want it quick. Use quicklisp 21:42:18 the guru 21:42:24 sbryant: no, seems easier to use then cl-ppcre 21:42:33 the guru of what? 21:42:35 and if it's not there configure your system source registry. 21:42:49 of lisp 21:43:04 isn't he dead? 21:43:09 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:43:11 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:12 msmith2: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html 21:43:23 yes true. ok the guru is then Xach 21:43:28 I'm teaching myself lisp using various free reading materials and videos I've found online. Every author uses her own favorite small REPL... But I'd like to just use clisp. Can I .. define #f to equal nil and #t to equal t? 21:43:30 and the code of Maxima is not that impressive, to be frank 21:43:36 it's more mathy, then lispy 21:43:50 Sebboh: are you mixing up scheme and common lisp? 21:44:06 Sebboh: you can, but you shouldn't do that 21:44:47 tomodo, oh, yes, you're right. This video is about scheme. Sorry. 21:44:49 stassats: the code of Maxima is impressive in the sense that it's like a million years old and still alive. 21:45:21 i meant that it's not an example of idiomatic CL 21:45:26 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 21:45:37 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@mobile-198-228-195-056.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:45:38 sure. 21:47:03 stassats: In that sense, you were being excessively polite. The Maxima source is gross. :) 21:47:15 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:48:17 ...like a maggot-infested zombie triceratops. 21:49:04 a lot of PS3 gaming 21:52:05 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 21:52:23 there was a site comparing speed of different prog mlangauges for some programs/algorithms; like genetic programming, blast etc... anyone remembers the address? 21:52:30 msmith2: wouldn't know, always use cl-ppcre. 21:53:14 francogrex: google for language shootout 21:53:49 sbryant: thanks, I just had a break through with cl-ppcre so I may just stick with that. 21:54:07 NP 21:54:20 p_l: that's it 21:56:38 rgc` [~user@173.Red-79-152-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:34 -!- rgc [~user@162.Red-79-153-88.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:35 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:59:50 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:00:28 Fortran wins for the mandelbrot 22:00:49 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:26 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:02:21 sbryant: did msmith2 say something to which you replied "wouldn't know, always use cl-ppcre."? 22:02:50 did i misconfigure my client to hid too much things? 22:03:41 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:43 stassats: sbryant: no, seems easier to use then cl-ppcre 22:04:34 ok, that i saw, although i didn't connect them, given the time difference 22:05:01 ah, yeah sorry for the confusion. 22:07:02 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-107-87.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.199.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:09:19 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-220-200.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:09:38 -!- vairav [~vairav@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-206-130.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:15 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:13:42 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14:16 vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has joined #lisp 22:14:36 Guest68987 [~rr@host8-72-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:14:43 -!- Guest68987 [~rr@host8-72-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 22:15:10 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:18:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:19:24 vairav_ [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has joined #lisp 22:20:28 -!- vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:21:05 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:06 -!- rgc` [~user@173.Red-79-152-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:22:08 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.6.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:12 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 22:24:06 -!- compj [~compj@p54BF440C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: compj] 22:24:23 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:24:23 vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has joined #lisp 22:24:37 -!- vairav_ [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:25:07 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:25:51 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:25 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:28:41 -!- vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30:55 sbryant: I have another question for you. how do you return a matched string from scan-to-strings? for instance, I've gotten the needed result from the regular expression using scan-to-strings but when I try to store the result in a variable, the string is the same as before the scan-to-strings call 22:31:03 -!- kmcorbett [kmcorbett@clozure-9FE07BBF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:31:03 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:31:13 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-126-90.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:50 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-126-90.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:06 basically I'm trying to do something like (setf myvar (scan-to-strings "regex" "string")) 22:32:51 What is the correct way to obtain the last element of a list? I can't stand the (FIRST (LAST LIST)) approach and (NTH (1- (LENGTH LIST)) LIST) seems equally poor. 22:33:10 rgc` [~user@99.Red-83-43-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:10 ThomasH: the correct way is not to need to do that 22:33:42 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:53 So you can use multiple-value-bind and the second value is a list of the matched strings 22:34:28 sbryant: ok will look that up 22:34:32 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:34:32 -!- nicdev_ [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:34:33 stassats: Yes, I probably should be using better data structures. On that note, I'll use FIRST/LAST so that every time I see it, I'll be motivated to fix it. No time now. 22:34:41 msmith2: do you use describe? 22:34:55 I haven't been 22:34:57 sbryant: the first value is a match, the second value will return matched groups 22:34:58 or if you use slime C-c C-d d 22:34:59 stassats: lists are just too damn handy sometimes. :-) 22:35:10 stassats that's what I said? 22:35:41 uhm, no 22:35:50 nicdev_ [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 22:36:01 (nth-value 1 (ppcre:scan-to-strings "." "abc")) => #() no matched strings (and it's not a list) 22:36:14 OH 22:36:17 yeah 22:36:25 I did leave out the matched grouped 22:36:29 matched groups 22:36:55 (multiple-value-list (ppcre:scan-to-strings "(.)(.)" "abc")) => ("ab" #("a" "b")) 22:37:10 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 22:37:56 stassats thanks for catching that 22:38:42 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810303.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:28 vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has joined #lisp 22:40:03 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 22:42:16 YokYok_ [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-75-86.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:44:02 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:34 -!- vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:46 vairav_ [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has joined #lisp 22:44:54 dradtke [~damien@205.178.121.76] has joined #lisp 22:45:04 -!- YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-56-114.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:45:25 can anyone help me with getting asdf to load in clisp? 22:45:50 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-107-87.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:28 YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-65-244.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:48:36 just use quicklisp 22:48:42 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:49:06 -!- YokYok_ [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-75-86.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:49:46 -!- vairav_ [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:12 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.176] has joined #lisp 22:50:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:50:35 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:06 -!- YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-65-244.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:52:11 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:52:11 stassats: I still get an error saying a file with name asdf doesn't exist 22:52:27 YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-233-241.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:52:27 when doing what? 22:52:34 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129182075.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:05 stassats: never mind, I think I just missed an install step 22:53:08 stassats: thanks 22:55:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:10 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:22 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 23:00:24 Just got bitten using NCONC. Very subtle error. 23:00:51 Karmaon [~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon] has joined #lisp 23:01:27 -!- mjs2600 [~user@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:06 ThomasH: yeah you have to be really careful about destruction 23:03:50 "I AM NCONC, DESTROYER OF THE LISTS" 23:03:56 :) 23:04:56 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:22 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 23:06:31 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:32 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:46 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:19 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:14:20 -!- bieber [~quassel@169-75.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:14:41 bieber [~quassel@169-75.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:55 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:26 what's the logic behind emacs'/slime's indenting by default? when does it use tabs, and when does it use spaces? 23:16:11 limetree: it uses tabs when it can, depending on the established tab-width setting for the buffer 23:16:41 does anyone use gtk-cffi? I'm having trouble getting it to work 23:16:50 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:08 vairav [~vairav@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:19 limetree: it is generally bad practice to use tabs in source code, though. use spaces instead. the indent-tabs-mode variable should be set to nil accomplish that. 23:17:34 limetree: (this is an emacs question and does not have much to do with slime) 23:19:21 H4ns: well, let's not get into that, but i suppose for lisp especially it's bad :) 23:19:38 tabs vs. spaces is contested 23:19:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:19:48 limetree: no. it is not worse in lisp than in any other language. 23:19:56 *p_l* uses tabs, let the other side define how much a tab should have 23:20:39 lisp's indenting seems more complicated. i would think it's easier to screw up if you start mixing. 23:20:57 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:00 *hefner* doesn't understand why you'd use tabs in a language where the default indentation is only two spaces 23:21:21 hefner: thank you 23:21:25 :) 23:21:28 not just set indent-tabs-mode to nil, use (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) 23:21:50 yeah, i remember you had to do two things 23:22:19 well, for lisp I have spaces for that reason. I guess I digressed due to "general bad practice" ;) 23:22:36 H4ns: are you in charge of cl-gd too? 23:22:42 stassats: yes 23:22:53 H4ns: by the way, i cooked up pretty printing in yason 23:23:12 H4ns: (setf save-alpha-p) has &key instead of the advertised &optional 23:23:17 limetree: uh, i've just committed some pretty printing myself. 23:23:30 stassats: eek. 23:23:36 it works well, i think, but i don't know how good it is "design wise" 23:23:42 stassats: let me see if i can quickly fix that. 23:23:57 H4ns: ok, no problem, i'd be interested to see how you did it then :) 23:23:59 limetree: you may want to look at what i committed today to see whether it fits your bill. 23:25:14 are you sure you pushed it? 23:25:21 stassats: &optional would be right, do you agree? 23:25:29 limetree: let me check 23:25:53 -!- bieber [~quassel@169-75.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:26:09 limetree: on the v0.4 branch 23:26:14 has anyone noticed cl-who failing to close a div node 23:26:21 H4ns: the documentation, common sense, and non-setf alpha-blending-p agree 23:26:31 stassats: ok 23:26:56 I have a div as the sole direct child of body which is not getting closed 23:27:15 Guthur: do you misuse str or something? 23:27:18 rather post your code 23:27:38 I'll try an get a minimal example 23:27:41 stassats: fixed, thanks! 23:30:39 H4ns: you're involved with hunchentoot, too, right? 23:30:50 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:30:55 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-115-0-236.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:31:00 limetree: right, i'm maintaining it at the moment. 23:31:34 H4ns: I found and fixed some bugs in the handling of of the Range header (byte ranges) 23:32:11 limetree: nice, please send me a pull request 23:33:17 there's still one thing missing from its support. you're supposed to be able to specify e.g. -5 as a byte range, and get the last 5 bytes 23:33:42 -!- sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.45.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:14 -!- dradtke [~damien@205.178.121.76] has left #lisp 23:35:32 stassats: couldn't really cut it back much http://paste.lisp.org/display/127731 23:35:40 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-115-0-236.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:41 DataLink_ [cb1b90a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.27.144.167] has joined #lisp 23:35:46 sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.112] has joined #lisp 23:35:53 it's the blog entry loog in the handler that is causing it 23:35:56 limetree: an update in the test would be appreciated, too :) 23:36:02 if I take that out it is fine 23:36:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.249] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:36:21 -!- vairav [~vairav@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:37:05 Guthur: ftw 23:38:08 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:23 vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has joined #lisp 23:38:34 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:44 turtool [~hi@ip72-201-171-74.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:46 sykopomp: which doctype is that, I can't make out that weird symbol 23:38:53 nearly looks like the middle finger 23:38:58 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 23:39:00 http://unicodesnowmanforyou.com/ 23:39:03 a little bigger here 23:39:23 ah, hehe 23:39:24 -!- vonn [~vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:39:28 vonn^2 [vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:41 that's the html5 doctype 23:39:49 is there a way of creating a copy of an array without iterating manually? ex:(make-array :copy mOldArray) 23:39:50 even in snowman format I'm sure an un closed div is illegal 23:39:56 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:40:21 -!- Karmaon [~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:41:02 sykopomp: fwiw I am strongly considering move to html5 for this, just no immediate need to change the prologue in cl-who 23:41:08 that's not a div. It's a doctype. 23:41:18 html5 also allows plenty of unclosed tags. 23:41:35 sykopomp: I know, I'm just referring to my issue 23:42:36 turtool: alexandria:copy-array 23:42:44 turtool: http://lemonodor.com/archives/000100.html 23:43:40 austinh: thats the function i'm already using 23:43:51 i was wondering if there was just a built in function that i overlooked 23:44:33 (make-array (length source) :initial-contents source) works fsvo works 23:44:56 H4ns: ok, i'll look at making some tests tomorrow. do you still want me to send what i have now? (i'm not too familiar with how github works...) 23:44:58 sykopomp: doesn't that just point to the original array? 23:44:58 sykopomp: copy-seq would work on the arrays that would work for 23:45:20 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba4421.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 23:45:41 dlowe: and copy-array would work on all the other ones. 23:45:47 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:45:55 sykopomp: yes... 23:49:44 limetree: i'd prefer a pull request with everything in one commit. but that is just my preference. basically, you have to fork the edicl/hunchentoot repository, clone your fork, make your changes, commit and push them and then send a pull request. 23:50:13 -!- vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:50:22 limetree: but i'll not reject a patch sent by mail, it'll just take a bit longer 23:50:25 sykopomp: using 'initial-contents source' doesn't work for multi-dim arrays 23:50:40 right. 23:51:12 *sykopomp* wishes someone else would write a fast http header parser that worked on incremental input. 23:52:10 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-32-166.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 23:54:16 nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba4421.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:18 if only those other people were more cooperative 23:56:18 ah oops, nevermind about that cl-who issue 23:56:32 vairav [~vairav@96.24.68.145] has joined #lisp 23:56:37 sykopomp: i take a slightly different approach in ql's http client. i don't parse incrementally, i just look for the end of header incrementally, and when it's seen I parse the whole thing. and i throw in a limit on how much data i'm willing to consider for a header. 23:56:45 non-issue, twas all my fault, and nothing actually to do with CL 23:56:56 H4ns: all right, i'll send a pull request tomorrow. if you're interested, this is what i found: https://github.com/beakdoctor/hunchentoot/commit/71af095e49acc3694dd1ee1578804ec5e4a6998e 23:57:07 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:34 Xach: I'm trying to avoid string concatenation and other consing as much as possible, but maybe that's just extremely premature. :) 23:57:36 stassats: found the issue with the missing tag 23:57:42 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:57:44 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has joined #lisp 23:58:21 string? 23:58:27 *Xach* does not parse anything as strings 23:58:35 excellent! 23:59:13 hm