00:00:47 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:01:09 Hmm, made the directory and added the file, is there something I need to do in my emacs config to load it? 00:01:37 It takes effect when you log in again 00:01:50 To do it in the current emacs you can use M-x setenv 00:01:51 ohh, crap ok, well I'll restart then. Thanks xach for your help 00:02:03 oh well that'd be nicer - I'll do that for now 00:02:54 You'd need to restart SBCL though 00:04:01 ok 00:04:10 i just read somewhere that python is relatively lisp-like 00:04:24 all this time, i assumed the ruby tag in html5 was related to ruby, the language. i should've known better 00:04:28 For some values of relatively. 00:04:28 atleast moreso than many other languages 00:04:41 is this statement at all true/ 00:05:00 Norvig seems to suggest so, I don't share that sentiment. 00:05:13 Xach: *nod* yeah found that out the hard way, seems to work just fine now 00:05:39 quazimodo: it depends the angle and degree of squinting 00:07:32 quazimodo: many languages are like lisp. i follow the view of Paul Graham on it: it is the grouping of /all/ the features of lisp that makes lisp what it is. you can have some of the features, you'll still not have something comparable. in python, you can't implement features which look like they're implemented by the implementors of the language itself, i think. as in "you still can't treat code as data". i know very l 00:07:32 python. 00:07:52 quazimodo: relatively so compared to what is commonly used to teach at universities these days... 00:08:24 probably moreso when AIMA was published for the first time 00:08:49 jbiesnecker [~textual@58.246.90.198] has joined #lisp 00:09:47 madnificent: i get you 00:09:54 also, "relatively" is a *very* vague term 00:10:02 vague enough to fit a supertanker and have space 00:10:09 ok 00:10:26 (analogy brought to you by Bad Analogies, LLC.) 00:10:40 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 00:13:01 p_l: you know, i find it odd that the likes of google haven't found a way to penetrate our beloved IRC network with add messages yet. the way you played it is just like i'd expect it to be. 00:13:14 hahaha 00:14:08 afaik ads like that one woul be frowned upon in Google. Oh sure, it could run for some time, but someone would probably get called out for this 00:14:33 OTOH, I completely wouldn't be surprised at something like that from certain operators in poland 00:14:47 -!- Illiux [~nol@cl-wireless-pittnet-150-212-22-220.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 00:14:56 The simple truth, though, is that IRC is not mainstream at all 00:14:58 also irc is full of grumpy fucks that buy nothing 00:15:11 (well, mainstream for the ad market) 00:15:19 market's target, that is 00:16:16 quazimodo: not really... a lot of people I talk with on irc often have their own companies, often working well enough that it's not a question of "do I have enough money?" but "how long is the amortization period?" 00:16:29 that changes a lot when it comes to buying 00:19:09 hell, if I had work, I would be buying quite a lot : 00:19:12 *:D 00:21:54 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:29 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.158.68.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:05 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.158.68.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:25 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 00:27:57 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@arh2459.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 00:28:00 p_l: lol 00:28:05 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:12 p_l: are you running your own stuff? 00:28:27 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:12 quazimodo: in what sense? 00:29:37 The machinery behind his IRC ad business, you mean :)? 00:29:44 technically I am self-employed, which means I'm going to be even further in debt due to not paying taxes on time 00:29:47 decafbad [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 00:30:08 -!- decafbad is now known as decaf 00:30:09 hint: when you get so ill you drop off the grid, get someone to look over such stuff 00:31:58 Frozenlock [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:16 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 00:32:21 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:32:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-025.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:32:50 -!- mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:32:52 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 00:34:28 quazimodo: however, my family had long struggled with various kinds of self-employment, and some knowledge stuck 00:34:56 like the fact that 1200 for LW when you have sensible cashflow is not that much :P 00:35:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:40:29 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.142] has joined #lisp 00:40:45 IIRC there was a am i suppose to run tests from asdf systems without knowing what test lib it's using. anyone knows what i'm talking about? 00:40:53 there was a way* 00:41:10 daveo [~daveo@97.73.171.234] has joined #lisp 00:41:15 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:42:15 are there many differences between clisp and sbcl? using emacs and slime is there a consensus for perfernce? 00:42:36 preference* 00:42:58 daveo: sbcl is better-supported by slime. 00:45:34 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-58-225.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:47 Xach: ah, thank you 00:46:53 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:47:15 There are quite a lot of differences. They have different design & implementation & footprint & features 00:47:56 daveo: if you have them both installed, set the slime-lisp-implementations variable in your .emacs so that you can start your second favorite by calling slime with a prefix arg 00:48:43 Xach: so if'n i was pretty well set on emacs for editor, sbcl would be a good choice 00:48:51 Vivitron: that makes sense 00:48:54 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:51:59 daveo: sbcl is a good choice in general. 00:53:36 Xach: thank you for your opinions, i'm installing sbcl now 00:53:38 daveo: fwiw I agree that sbcl is a sane default, on linux at least 00:54:54 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:55:47 Vivitron: right this is for linux 00:56:38 daveo: best to get it from www.sbcl.org 00:57:31 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@arh2459.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:00:01 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-202-static.acedsl.com] has 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01:58:09 I need a fun lisp project to work on. 01:58:53 Write a 3D roulette program, simulating the movement of the ball. 01:59:21 (and fun (not too-hard)) 01:59:50 drysdam: needs more details 02:00:05 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 02:01:30 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@110-114-139-174.e5.protectedgroup.COM] has left #lisp 02:01:35 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:08:17 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:10 drysdam: write an intelligent unix shell, ie. an assistant that manages automatically files and processes, following natural language requests from the user. 02:09:54 A shell sounds cool. Dunno if I can handle the nat lang, though. 02:10:15 classic [~watchkeep@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 02:10:34 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 02:11:12 There's a stanford course starting this month about NLP. 02:11:25 http://www.nlp-class.org/# 02:12:13 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 02:12:38 I started the AI class, but I didn't really have the stats pre-reqs and dropped out. Will the NLP be a little...less steep? 02:12:54 ...do you conjecture? 02:13:16 drysdam: I think so. 02:13:25 sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:06 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:14:24 heh 02:15:51 drysdam: something simpler then - build a ready-to-use container that transforms a CL web app into a desktop application. You could use commonqt to use QtWebkit. 02:16:32 the very basics of it should be possible to do as weekend project 02:16:34 signed up for the NLP and machine learning. 02:16:42 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:02 (single frame + HTTP redirection to lisp) 02:17:16 Oh, that reminds me, I actually do have an idea for a web app but I'd want to do it in CL, obvs. But I couldn't figure out what people are using for that. 02:17:36 I use Hunchentoot + my own libraries for html generation. 02:17:40 a lot of people use hunchentoot. Some people use more exotic tools 02:17:49 But a lot of people use cl-who to generate html. 02:18:01 and above http server, it's "whatever floats your boat at the time" 02:19:08 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:58 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:05 -!- rme [rme@9D5E9625.1B3AA978.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:20:18 rme__ [~rme@50.43.152.6] has joined #lisp 02:20:18 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:18 -!- rme__ is now known as rme 02:20:19 hrm 02:20:23 im trying to figure out clos 02:20:36 do we have the abstract notion of classes with private and public methods 02:20:40 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:21:22 No. Methods are not attached to classes, but to generic functions in CLOS. 02:21:50 A private generic function could be named %my-private-function, while a public generic function would be named my-public-function. 02:21:54 well, it would be on my hosting provider's servers. I wonder if they have mod_lisp 02:21:57 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:22:14 drysdam: Nobody uses mod_lisp anymore. 02:22:28 oh 02:22:47 drysdam: Hunchentoot can run stand-alone, or you can easily setup a reverse proxy to it. 02:23:15 -!- rme [rme@9D5E9625.1B3AA978.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 02:23:16 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:29 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:42 i'll have to see if my provider will let me do that. at my pricing level. 02:25:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-186-210.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:10 drysdam: Aren't you getting ahead of yourself? Why not just write it on your local machine? After you get it working, you can worry about hosting. 02:25:35 There are cheap hosting of all kinds, you may easily have one matching your needs. 02:26:04 well, maybe. it'd really just be for me and (extended) family. but then I guess I could do it right from my machine forever. 02:26:12 good points, though 02:26:47 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:33 Then you can run it on a Raspberry Pi and 4 AA :-) 02:27:53 drysdam: if you look well, you can find really *cheap* hosting capable of running lisp if you're willing to deal with possible downtimes 02:28:26 *p_l* pays 50/year for something that can run "whatever that doesn't blow when used with grsec" 02:28:59 (which means making sure your SBCL runtime memory is below 0.5G :D) 02:29:56 Or use ecl or clisp. 02:30:22 pjb: true 02:30:50 though ECL can be annoying during developement compared to clisp or sbcl 02:31:47 rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has joined #lisp 02:31:50 clisp uses less ram than sbcl? 02:32:05 1/10th about. 02:32:44 gko [~gko@42-74-211-173.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:46 The magic of virtual machines :-) 02:33:20 interesting, always thought that would make it use more 02:33:54 nope 02:33:57 Of course not, since clisp VM uses byte codes optimized for lisp. It's a kind of compression. 02:34:15 -!- gko [~gko@42-74-211-173.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:34:23 the 1/10th ratio is during start up? does that tend to even out when program grows? 02:34:35 It's the size of the implementation. 02:34:54 For programs it should maintain, for data it will beabout the same. 02:34:55 frx: for many applications, SBCL's runtime and compiler outweigh the program and its data. 02:35:28 Sure, if you load 2GB or more of data, it doesn't makea difference if the implementation is 8 MB or 50 MB. 02:35:33 actually, for some data, SBCL may be tighter. 02:36:28 SBCL-produced code is also fairly big 02:36:37 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 02:36:55 I thought we're talking about runtime memory use 02:37:07 *hefner* remembers doing cool shiny things in CMUCL and having the dynamic space size still under 15 megs or so 02:37:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:43 hefner: unicode and x86-64 bloated things up a lot. 02:39:08 frx: look at it like this: SBCL runtime takes ~40MB after loading. Then your libs take another 40MB. Then you go for your own code ;) 02:39:26 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:40:01 I have to manipulate low level code (bits in UDP datagram). Should I make my datagram in lists, or in vectors? 02:40:20 Frozenlock: lists are rarely the right answer. 02:40:22 p_l sure. but if say your VPS account had 500 MB max memory usage (as mentioned above) would 40MB start up advantage of clisp really matter? 02:40:57 pkhuong: So for an octet I should use: (make-array 8 :initial-element 0 :element-type 'bit) ? 02:41:00 Frozenlock: probably vectors. 02:41:22 Frozenlock: I'd go with a vector of (unsigned-byte 8), probably. 02:41:24 Frozenlock: '(unsigned-byte 8) 02:41:25 (make-array datagram-length :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) 02:41:27 I guess it could if you run several lisp processes 02:41:40 and then write functions to access easily 16-bit and 32-bit values. 02:41:55 (as well as bits). Remember, paquets are in bigendian. 02:42:14 Oh, I wasn't aware of the (unsigned-byte 8) type, thanks! 02:42:15 hefner: http://pvk.ca/misc/assembled.pdf <- napa-fft's actually faster than FFTW's default planner when the data exceeds L3 (: 02:42:16 frx: depends on how much memory you wat to use 02:42:28 frx: also, clisp can run on platforms SBCL can't 02:42:39 like raspberry pi 02:43:30 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AAAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:45 Frozenlock: you also have the option of working directly with foreign memory and not pulling the data into lisp 02:44:12 sbcl had (has?) issues with small vectors and gc 02:44:19 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:48 xristos: it does? 02:44:55 well it did for me 2 years ago 02:45:09 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A8F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:13 xristos: oh, if you try and pass them to syscalls, then yes. 02:45:44 "just" execute a dummy (setf aref) first. 02:47:02 i'll try and find the the testcase i had for this 02:47:31 the consensus here was that the vectors were never going to be collected 02:47:51 (ccl had no issues with same) 02:47:58 uh? Conservativeness is independent of vector size. 02:48:48 antgreen [~user@64.134.168.217] has joined #lisp 02:49:26 pkhuong: very cool. 02:50:55 pkhuong: http://paste.lisp.org/display/89710 02:50:58 i found this 02:51:43 format question.. I need to prefix a string I'm printing with some number of tab characters that I know only at runtime. Is there a way to do this with a special format directive? 02:53:09 most likely. 02:53:11 xristos: what does it mean? 02:54:05 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 02:54:06 pnq1 [~nick@ACA213DD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:53 pkhuong: seems fine on 1.0.55/x86-64 02:55:56 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA208E9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:56:52 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:57:46 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:44 antgreen: You could use ~T but it doesn't necessarily use TAB. 02:59:29 Otherwise: (format t "~V,,,VAHello~%" 10 #\Tab "") 02:59:54 or ~// 03:00:01 Note, for indentations, you may prefer to use the pretty printer 03:00:09 ~// ? 03:00:44 (format t "~V/print-tabs/" n) 03:01:06 But you have to write PRINT-TABS. 03:01:07 I wish CL used \t \n etc 03:01:17 xristos: I think the runtime is now slightly more robust against stack conservativeness. I sometimes spawn threads solely to work around conservativeness. 03:01:31 frx: there's CL-INTERPOL. 03:01:35 frx: it does: http://paste.lisp.org/display/69905 03:02:18 pkhuong: good to kno 03:02:31 pjb :) 03:04:02 of course i meant use them directly in string literals not via a function 03:04:20 frx: that's what the reader macro I propose does! 03:04:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 03:05:23 how do you use it? 03:05:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:05:35 I haven't got to reader macros yet 03:05:35 frx: try reading to the end. 03:05:54 pjb: awesome - thanks. trying it now. 03:05:58 hmm, no pastebot. 03:06:06 ah there's more 03:06:07 But you probably want CL-INTERPOL instead of overriding "" 03:06:14 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:25 hefner: nice :) 03:06:51 *Kazinator* has been wanted by CL Interpol for years. 03:07:12 pkhuong why? could it break some things or? 03:07:36 frx: yes it could: it changes the standard string syntax. 03:08:09 what could it break 03:08:14 for example 03:08:33 a program that has literal strings in its source. 03:08:36 i mean isn't it affecting only my code 03:09:01 it's affecting everything that goes through the reader while that readtable is in effect. 03:09:17 -!- daveo [~daveo@97.73.171.234] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:09:49 hefner: how would canons work? 03:09:49 ok, but in practice, I can't see why any code would be using \t \n etc in string literals. 03:10:21 I think I'll be using this :) 03:11:45 cl-interpol has the same kind of syntax (and more) and doesn't depend on "in practice" assumptions. It's also easier to depend on. 03:13:02 it's a fair assumption I think, no reason why you'd use "\n\t" in regular lisp code instead of "nt" 03:14:09 it's kind of awesome how you can override something as fundamental as a string literal 03:14:34 -!- peccu1 [~peccu@ZU207108.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:14:40 yes, and with great power comes great responsibility. There's only one current readtable. 03:15:21 pkhuong: I suppose you'd define the melody in a function with a transposition as a parameter, then glue them together. 03:16:10 drysdam: here is another project: write a bot that read #lisp, remember all the factoids, and is able to regurgitate them pertinantly next time same questions occur. 03:16:28 hmm. 03:16:51 pjb do you recommend against using that " reader macro? I mean did you write it just so you can show it's possible 03:17:36 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:47 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:18:15 I can't get it to work. evaluated both read-c-string and *-readtable*, and "\t" still returns "t" 03:18:33 (setf *-readtable* .. ) 03:19:03 there's no hyphen. 03:19:16 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:19:40 gko [~gko@27.52.115.233] has joined #lisp 03:19:44 frx: you could use it, eg. in the case you inherit a lot of C string. It would be better thantrying to translate them. 03:19:54 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 03:20:30 Otherwise, \t is not useful,since TAB is banished, and we have ~% in format strings. 03:21:50 it works, blows my mind. so you can basically redefine entire language? 03:21:56 all the syntax 03:22:28 frx: yes. The only syntax that is fixed in Common Lisp, is that of the integers, floating points and package:symbols. 03:22:45 All the rest are reader macros or dispatching reader macros, entirely modifiable. 03:22:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has joined #lisp 03:22:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has quit [Changing host] 03:22:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:23:01 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:23:17 And you could disable reading integers floats and symbols, by installing reader macros on the digits and letters. 03:23:21 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:23:52 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has left #lisp 03:25:05 is stream passed to the read-c-string function stream from the lisp source? if I got it right 03:25:55 Yes. 03:29:08 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:29:43 Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:59 peccu1 [~peccu@ZU207071.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:30:39 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 03:31:43 simplechat_ [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:31:43 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:31:43 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:32:27 I messed with clojure briefly, I liked it's #(..) syntax. #(+ 5 %) is equal to (lambda (x) (+ 5 x)). I guess it would be possible to do something like this? I wouldn't want to break the # syntax for arrays though so maybe we could use some other syntax, but still concise 03:33:04 -!- Frozenlock [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:33:20 frx: possible, though frowned upon by some 03:33:26 (majority, I'd guess) 03:33:59 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:34:17 what syntax could I use? 03:34:20 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 03:34:21 what character 03:34:54 With unicode you have a large choice. 03:35:01 couldbe one. 03:35:16 frx: there's a list of reserved dispatch characters in CLHS 03:35:27 lambda character? great :) 03:35:42 reserved by CL implementation? 03:35:45 frx: in general, CLHS is your friend, then hit AMOP if it's a question on "how can I mangle CLOS" 03:36:15 frx: reserved by standard, as in "do not change them if you want resulting readtable to properly read ANSI CL code" 03:36:41 of course, you can change it, resulting readtable just might do weird things to ansi-compliant code :) 03:36:42 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 03:40:16 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tpcdgqmlofkhwkoi] has joined #lisp 03:42:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:16 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has joined #lisp 03:42:19 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 03:42:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has quit [Changing host] 03:42:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:43:11 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 03:44:41 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-cubwprlcmjbboxsx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:02 if I want to make enable-c-strings and disable-c-strings, should I just save a copy to original *readtable* reference? 03:45:08 +function 03:46:08 or I should call copy-readtable 03:46:27 Yes. (let ((*readtable* *c-stirng-readtable*)) (load "c-strings.lisp")) 03:46:37 -!- DataLinkDroid is now known as DataLinkAway 03:48:06 I want to make a function enable-c-strings and disable-c-strings 03:48:36 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:48:53 There;s no need to save the stadnard read table it can be recreated by (copy-readtable nil). 03:48:54 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 03:49:02 But the current readtable may contain other reader macros 03:49:20 frx: You might want to use named-readtables, I guess 03:51:38 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:52:14 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 03:52:37 sorry for quit/join flooding, something's wrong with my connection 03:52:49 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-174-55.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:58:17 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:58:35 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 03:58:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-52-210.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:58:42 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has left #lisp 03:58:49 on a VPS that only has 256MB (300MB burst) ram, I cannot even run a simplest hunchentoot program with SBCL. 03:59:12 kanru`: 64bit SBCL? 03:59:43 *p_l* found 64bit SBCL to use 2x the memory 04:00:39 x86 04:01:24 and clisp only use 3.5% of the total memory after a long run 04:02:50 pjb for some reason I had to delete your (setf *-readtable* (let ((rt (copy-readtable nil))) code and just set-macro-character current *read-table* directly to have any effect when loading a system 04:03:08 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:03:34 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 04:03:54 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:03:59 does hunchentoot run fine on clisp by the way? I might use it if I ever write a webserver in lisp 04:04:19 s/webserver/web page/ 04:04:30 frx: no. 04:04:34 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:51 davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:02 no? 04:08:41 frx: you may need the clisp with threads. 04:10:03 Katniss [~Katniss@24.144.9.150] has joined #lisp 04:15:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:16:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has joined #lisp 04:16:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has quit [Changing host] 04:16:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:16:21 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:19:09 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:19 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.95] has joined #lisp 04:19:31 more lisp audiovisual porn: http://ompldr.org/vY2wwZg/xalc222.mp4 04:20:04 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 04:20:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:20:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:22:02 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:04 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:22:35 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:30 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 04:26:12 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 04:29:45 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:32:17 dirty, dirty lisp. 04:33:07 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:44 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:39:08 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:50 dto, clearly this uses the finest elements of CLIM 04:42:56 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:44:33 Katniss_ [~Katniss@24.144.9.150] has joined #lisp 04:44:38 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@arh2459.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:44:48 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:47:57 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:48:28 -!- Katniss [~Katniss@24.144.9.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:49:13 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.56.244] has joined #lisp 04:49:39 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:50:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:52:53 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 04:53:04 impossible; there's not a badly pixelated courier bitmap font to be seen anywhere. 04:53:13 -!- DataLinkAway [~David@123.208.28.125] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:55:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:55:56 Quadrescence: what haha? 04:56:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has joined #lisp 04:56:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has quit [Changing host] 04:56:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:56:09 hefner, hahaha 04:56:09 no i made my own gui framework 04:56:25 with some clim ideas and some non clim 04:56:40 dto, do you have the variables +EVERYWHERE+ and +NOWHERE+ ? 04:56:45 constants rather 04:56:54 nope. 04:56:59 traitor 04:56:59 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.212.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:01 ha 04:59:28 -!- davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 04:59:28 if you wanted to poke fun, you should've trotted out +FLIPPING-INK+ 04:59:41 zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@219.137.211.141] has joined #lisp 04:59:48 zkc [~zkc@219.137.211.141] has joined #lisp 05:00:24 although I'm still saddened that XOR is no longer a politically correct compositing operator. 05:01:16 -!- zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@219.137.211.141] has quit [Client Quit] 05:03:01 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03:19 not only did i create my own non-clim gui framework, i wrote it using objects from my own non-clos object system 05:03:38 dto, you devil 05:03:42 YESSS 05:04:03 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:04:10 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has joined #lisp 05:04:10 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 05:04:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has quit [Changing host] 05:04:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:04:37 *hefner* does that for breakfast 05:05:08 hefner: it's not? 05:06:21 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436984.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:06:55 So is every criticism of Lisp based on a 20- or 30-year-old version instead of common lisp and its libraries today? 05:07:22 Pretty much 05:07:25 Aethaeryn: What do you think? 05:07:27 pkhuong: I got the impression that the trend was to discard old-fashioned bitwise operators and only support porter-duff alpha compositing. I know when lichtblau worked on gtkcairo, he couldn't make XOR work. 05:08:00 hefner: HTML5 canvas still supports xor! 05:08:06 Because "wait a minute X said Lisp didn't have (a standard) Y" is my standard reaction to a new feature discovery. 05:08:27 Oh, wait, there's one. "I don't like parentheses". 05:08:34 most of the people who rail against lisp do not know it well if at all. 05:08:34 I guess that's still relevant. 05:08:54 inaimathi: Can't I just fork sbcl and replace () with {}? 05:09:09 no need for a fork. 05:09:13 the only thing i want to criticize about common lisp, is pathnames. but, i never seem to be able to articulate what i was going to say about them. 05:09:20 { :( } ( :) ) 05:09:29 "they are unnecessarily complicated?" 05:09:41 yep! 05:09:45 dto: if you could, it would be unprintable. 05:09:49 hello Xach. 05:12:11 pkhuong: that's interesting. Cairo and Quartz supposedly don't. I've never seriously looked into it. 05:12:31 jingtao [~jingtaozf@118.186.129.182] has joined #lisp 05:13:10 DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.28.125] has joined #lisp 05:13:38 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.17.200] has joined #lisp 05:14:16 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:16 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436984.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: fuck it, SLEEP] 05:14:32 I don't want to know what the operator does on non-monochrome images. 05:14:36 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:14:55 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-52-210.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:28 Aethaeryn: you don't need to fork an implementation to use {} instead of ()! 05:16:35 (set-macro-character #\{ (lambda (stream ch) (declare (ignore ch)) (read-delimited-list #\} stream)) ; is all you need. 05:16:52 ) 05:17:20 and now {} returns NIL 05:17:23 wow, that's pretty cool 05:17:54 pjb: so you could basically write your own language in Lisp? 05:18:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-99-124-138-41.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:07 yates [~yates@rrcs-97-79-165-138.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:20:22 and (set-syntax-from-char #\} #\)) 05:20:44 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:46 Aethaeryn: yes, read again the /topic! 05:21:09 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-52-210.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 05:21:11 You need the set-syntax-from-char so that 2} is interpreted as two tokens insteads of |2}|., 05:21:35 as in {+ 1 2} 05:22:00 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-169-124.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:18 ah, good catch 05:22:37 well, I guess now the parentheses aren't a reason against using Lisp. 05:23:00 Aethaeryn: have a look at https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/AkU0JCnGGAA 05:23:06 what is the conventional file extension for common lisp files? 05:23:11 .lisp 05:23:14 what else? 05:23:20 .cl? 05:23:26 .clisp? 05:23:37 No. 05:23:51 Once upon a time it was .l 05:23:52 yes. 05:24:20 The keys on those teletypes were really hard to push. 05:25:13 I've seen .l files 05:25:20 Are those extremely out of date? :-P 05:25:49 anyone knows a example that uses (read) to implement a parser? 05:27:02 Aethaeryn: rather. Nowadays, other programs use .l files. 05:27:22 kanru`: Lisp does. 05:27:35 kanru`: what do you want to parse? 05:28:09 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28:36 how does the (loop repeat ...) construct work? 05:28:43 other than lisp 05:28:44 :P 05:28:59 yates: (macroexpand '(loop repeat 42 do (something))) 05:29:07 kanru`: what do you want to parse? 05:29:12 For most of the languages I parse, I use Zebu or my very own rdp to generate the parsers. 05:29:21 pjb: aha. thank you. 05:29:42 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago-rdp 05:30:21 pjb: anything else, I have read the CLHS chapter about #'read can be used to implement a parser 05:30:40 just wondering if anyone actually use it 05:30:41 yates: or (do ((n 42 (1- n))) ((<= n 0)) (something)) if your implementation generates something too unwieldly. 05:31:09 kanru`: it's often used in toy parsers, or in pedagogical examples. 05:31:36 kanru`: for example, the example in cl-yacc: http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/cl-yacc/cl-yacc.html 05:31:59 use lists as source to be parsed (by the parser generated by cl-yacc). 05:32:11 Those lists could be read with (read), or generated programmatically. 05:32:52 kanru`: your question is rather meaningless since READ as a very definite meaning, and parsing a very definite other meaning. 05:32:58 -!- dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-202-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:33:09 READ itself contains a parser, to read sexps! 05:33:38 If your language is the language of the sexps, or a sublanguage of the sexps, then you can use READ to parse it. How much further are you once I've told you that? 05:33:43 lisp compilers are amazing hacks: http://codepad.org/pu2aeFCB 05:34:30 pjb: yes, that's why I was asking. CLHS is written like it can parse other syntax 05:34:44 It can, if you write the right reader macros. 05:34:48 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.37] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:34:56 Have you read the link I gave above? It was for you! 05:35:07 pjb: ah, .l conflicts with lex and The Game of Life and a few other things. 05:35:21 kanru`: have a look at https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/AkU0JCnGGAA 05:35:23 pjb: thanks, reading :) 05:35:56 too. 05:37:08 Good night! 05:37:23 good night 05:39:05 -!- Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: EPIC5-1.1.2[1638] - amnesiac : the most common elements in universe - hydrogen & stupidity] 05:40:25 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: adding SIG_ALARM hooks. If you see this, /msg AfterDeath hi!] 05:41:23 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:42:01 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 05:46:09 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.28.125] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:48:53 yates: Hi! 05:49:02 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.236.227] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 05:52:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:52:43 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:07 -!- Katniss_ is now known as Katniss 05:57:39 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@li382-207.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:24 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@118.186.129.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:01:17 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:29 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8D66.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:03:07 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 06:05:16 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:06:42 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:53 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has joined #lisp 06:08:21 -!- jingtao` [~jingtaozf@li382-207.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:08:26 lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-104-181.w92-160.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:11:27 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 06:11:41 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has left #lisp 06:13:24 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:17:39 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:17:52 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 06:18:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:18:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has joined #lisp 06:18:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has quit [Changing host] 06:18:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:20:43 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Client Quit] 06:22:16 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 06:22:25 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Client Quit] 06:22:45 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 06:23:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:24:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has joined #lisp 06:24:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.146.48] has quit [Changing host] 06:24:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:25:12 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.212.17] has joined #lisp 06:29:24 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:29:50 deego [~user@unaffiliated/deego] has joined #lisp 06:30:22 teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has joined #lisp 06:33:25 -!- jbiesnecker [~textual@58.246.90.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:34:19 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.31.44] has joined #lisp 06:34:19 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.212.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:38 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 06:34:43 Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined #lisp 06:34:59 Hi. Anyone remember who used to run the !tr bot .. the one that used to ask simple math. puzzles. 06:37:13 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:37:46 drwho [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:07 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:47:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:47:48 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:51:52 paratattva [~quassel@0025111258df.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 06:54:27 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:28 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:48 sunmix [~user@223.205.68.167] has joined #lisp 06:56:57 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 06:59:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-200.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:00:04 kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 07:01:06 -!- sunmix [~user@223.205.68.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:12 sunmix [~user@223.205.68.167] has joined #lisp 07:05:05 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:54 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:09:50 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@m212-96-64-74.cust.tele2.kz] has joined #lisp 07:09:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:10:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-200.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:59 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:11:26 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:43 i'm having problem with sbcl compilation 07:11:58 i'm installing in gentoo from portage 07:12:33 and also i have enabled grsecurity, so DEVMEM_STRICT option is forced on 07:12:57 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:13:20 and i'm getting "mmap: Operation not permitted" when it tries to build first genesis 07:14:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:14:36 no MAC/RBAC is active 07:15:08 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 07:15:18 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 07:17:34 and you absolutely must compile on a system that is paranoidly configured? 07:17:36 anonus: you need to change memory limits 07:17:51 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:18:26 anonus: also, you need to permit SBCL to disable address space randomization 07:18:59 ulimit -a shows "unlimited" for max memory size and virtual size 07:19:12 anonus: then it's a problem with address space randomization 07:19:18 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:30 I don't know the commands for grsec, but you can set it per executable 07:19:41 oh, pax 07:19:43 thanks 07:20:05 anonus: vanilla SBCL is non-relocatable, and the relocation patch wasn't updated in a long time 07:20:11 gensym [~user@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 07:20:22 sad 07:20:47 anonus: more like nobody cares enough about it 07:21:55 also, unlike with C, it's hard to get "well known addresses" 07:22:02 ok2 [ok2@kozachuk.info] has joined #lisp 07:22:03 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:41 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:12 nobody cares about security, yep 07:24:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:24:06 anonus: I'd say that this class of attacks is less relevant on platforms that aren't C/C++ 07:24:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:25:07 and finding out data necessary, for example, to hijack app's postgresql connection is much, much harder :) 07:26:07 anonus: remember, that code from one build of SBCL doesn't run in another 07:27:45 *p_l* considers it easier to reverse a session hash in most CL webapps than make a hit through a shellcode 07:28:14 drwho_ [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:14 -!- drwho_ [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:28:51 now the question how to build it without messing with ebuilds >.< 07:29:17 anonus: do a conditional on grsec and add apropriate command 07:29:26 anyone know who is the maintainer of lisp overlay in gentoo? 07:30:35 -!- drwho [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:31:11 I think he showed up here, but I don't remember who that was 07:32:22 also... when it comes to security, why not use a MAC? 07:32:25 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:32:39 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 07:32:45 not all are anal retentive like SElinux :D 07:33:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-169-124.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:33:22 ehm, i'm not saying that i'm not want to use MAC, i'm saying that i'm not using it now 07:34:00 i'm just not configured grsec RBAC for now, because of it's awesome lerning mode i need to install all apps before... 07:34:02 -!- echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:09 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:31 and yep, i'm lost my anal virginity with selinux, but i' 07:34:32 *p_l* is partial to TOMOYO 1.x. Least annoying configuration 07:34:46 -!- Katniss [~Katniss@24.144.9.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:34:47 i'm still can't make it work properly 07:34:49 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 07:34:51 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 07:35:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:35:38 TOMOYO not fully integrates with gentoo-hardened 07:35:52 there isn't much to integrate, frankly speaking 07:36:15 anonus: there's #gentoo-lisp 07:36:20 wow 07:36:29 thanks 07:37:34 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:37:38 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:37:38 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:39:01 p_l: portage do some useful things automatically with grsec/pax to make packages work properly 07:39:15 not every time, but often 07:41:27 anonus: TOMOYO is practically transparent, and yes, it uses a learning mode... but even writing from scratch is easier 07:42:14 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:42:16 maybe i'll try it later... 07:43:15 but anyway i need grsec/pax to harden kernel 07:44:06 so why to include other MAC's ? 07:45:21 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:50 heh. I simply like TOMOYO 1.x (not 2.x) model of operation, and it's definitely easier to configure and manage than some other systems 07:46:19 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 07:46:52 p_l: can you gimme an example ? 07:47:03 or link to some tutorial ? 07:47:04 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Changing host] 07:47:04 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Bot/WiseBot] has joined #lisp 07:47:27 because MAC configuring it really pain in the ass even with autolerning 07:47:33 the wiki pages on sourceforge are quite good 07:47:38 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Bot/WiseBot] has quit [Changing host] 07:47:38 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 07:48:10 ok 07:48:25 but basically it drops to this - TOMOYO has "domains", which have security settings applied to them, and tracks *execution* path - that is, which process called which etc. 07:48:29 it's compatible with PaX i hope ? 07:48:42 anonus: it doesn't do anything to randomization 07:48:53 hmmm 07:49:03 it's like tursted path execution in grsec ? 07:49:16 so does it only match path? 07:49:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.31.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:31 an execution path could be /sbin/init ... /sbin/login /usr/bin/bash ... 07:51:14 so 07:51:23 so you can apply your restrictions for example to stuff called from sudo, running with root permissions, because you know who invoked them 07:51:30 arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-152-147.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:53 for example can i define special domain for rc scripts for example ? 07:52:10 anonus: yes 07:52:31 well, you can implement a domain switch for execution of specific files, but you can match them with wildcards iirc 07:52:45 emm, no no no 07:52:55 anonus: or you can match a list of files 07:53:15 -!- lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-104-181.w92-160.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:31 i want everything that is executed inside rc scripts will be ran in that domain too 07:53:48 anonus: domains are inherited from parent process 07:54:12 ok 07:54:15 interesting 07:54:20 that's how you can track, for example, who executed a suid program and still apply restrictions based on that 07:54:45 mmm 07:55:01 or for example disallow any kind of acquiring root permissions for something started from a webserver process 07:55:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:55:40 -!- Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:56:11 Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:05 p_l: two more questions: can i allow users to switch domains with some magical command (but not allow them for example to switch it to admin domain)? 07:57:14 mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has joined #lisp 07:57:14 so, let's say someone cracks your hunchentoot-based lisp web app, and gets a shell from it. Even if he/she used an exploit to make a setuid shell, they won't get root permissions 07:57:52 anonus: yes - you can create a simple script that would pass parameters, and put a rule that makes it run in a new domain 07:58:15 and can i allow users to define it's own policies for it's own apps (which not interfer with system-wide policies) ? 07:58:31 let's say, /sbin/domains/web (which is just an exec "$@") 07:58:36 anonus: that would be trickier 07:59:09 what exactly ? domain switching or custom policies ? 07:59:11 technically possible, but you'd need to write a validator that would check permissions described to avoid adding something 07:59:18 user-supplied policies 07:59:24 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:59:39 personally I think it's a rather... dangerous thing 07:59:42 but is it possible without large security impacts ? 08:00:18 anonus: if you make a program that checks and sanitizes policy description files, and then pass it to a program that would load them, yes 08:00:37 but I'd prefer to have a trusted person in between 08:00:45 noway, it's not secure... 08:00:48 hmm.. 08:00:57 i want a simple thing 08:01:11 anonus: for such stuff, it's better IMHO to go with containers or user mode linux 08:01:24 some mechanism that helps users to protect their data from some untrusted app (for example browser) 08:02:02 containers needs admin rights, and uml has god damn large overhead on io 08:02:31 anonus: TOMOYO supports keeping track of pivot_root calls 08:03:20 and well... you could provide a "untrusted" app generator, that would create a simplified environment for an application to run without access to anything sensitive 08:03:54 chroot/pivot_root is a little bit unuseful because you need to make full environment 08:04:09 anonus: you can, however, use mount --bind for it 08:04:36 disclaimer - I installed Arch64 on top of Gentoo with chroot and mount --bind ^^; 08:05:08 oh,they got a nicer webpage now... http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/ 08:06:04 i reinstalled arch64 to gentoo without reboot using disassembled mdraid and mount --bind ) 08:06:12 anyway it's a bit complex.. 08:07:00 (COMPLEX BIT) 08:07:15 hmm... AKARI Provides more MAC functionality than TOMOYO Linux 2.x. 08:07:16 No need to recompile the kernel. 08:07:26 is it usermode MAC ? >.< 08:07:39 get the joke? 08:07:42 anyone? anyone? 08:07:52 anonus: no, it uses current kernel APIs 08:08:01 while 1.x patches it's own hooks 08:08:23 Quadrescence: o_O o_o 08:08:45 because of that, AKARI can't check for mount options like nosuid,nodev,noexec 08:08:46 drwho [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:16 c++ templats are cancer 08:09:49 i cant compile boost because g++ can't fit into memory %) 08:10:03 sorry, offtop %) 08:11:35 anonus: http://tomoyo.sourceforge.jp/1.8/index.html.en <--- anyway, read this. 08:11:44 *p_l* can't compile cl-zeromq because paywall 08:12:48 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.187.241] has joined #lisp 08:12:56 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 08:13:01 morning 08:13:09 yay, mail from Franz 08:14:46 p_l, i got mail from franz the other day 08:15:05 but it was depressing, "we discontinued PPC after Allegro 8.2" 08:15:09 heh. 08:15:35 In my case, it's "is thursday evening good time to call, and is the number below correct?" ;) 08:16:20 mine also had stuff along the lines of "we'll send you an extension to your license for your book" 08:16:21 (licensing query) 08:16:44 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-136.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:10 hmm 08:19:50 after i'm turned off the mmp randomization sbcl build failed with message that i need to recompile it with -fPIC 08:19:55 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:20:28 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-038.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:21:47 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 08:21:50 Katniss [~Katniss@24.144.9.150] has joined #lisp 08:22:15 interesting 08:22:48 holycow [~start@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:56 i can make a log 08:25:01 moment 08:25:19 nah, that message is usually from GNU ld, just check if you aren't missing the -fPIC somewhere (probably it isn't done so by default, and hardened toolchain balks 08:25:22 ) 08:25:26 it apocalyptically slow 08:25:56 so i just need to include -fPIC in gcc flags ? 08:26:18 or ld flags ? 08:26:20 or both ? 08:26:22 gcc 08:26:51 ok 08:28:09 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:33:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-038.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:09 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-032.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:36:44 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 08:38:27 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:40:16 -!- deego [~user@unaffiliated/deego] has left #lisp 08:43:31 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tocbscnftxckmvjf] has joined #lisp 08:44:29 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:48:45 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:50:05 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:50:28 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:50:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 08:52:30 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:53:38 good morning everyone 08:54:09 faust45 [~faust45@94-248-48-175.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 08:54:40 heh. Nice side of the (comparatively) small lisp market. A student project with budget of 0.00 gets a call from VP of sales :D 08:55:21 what kind of project? 08:55:43 Blkt: coursework, with 6 students in the team 08:56:03 basically we had to simulate creating a new software from scratch to demo 08:56:54 AstralStorm | anyway, solution is simple: using hardened = use something else than sbcl 08:56:55 =\ 08:56:56 ... I proposed using CL for core logic, to be exact ACL, for the easiest api to a graph database I could find :D 08:57:26 anonus: what more did fail? 08:57:33 p_l: nice 08:57:55 nope, i can't add -fPIC because of hardened toolchain 08:58:03 anonus: ... wtf? 08:58:29 -fPIC should be the default in a hardened toolchain anyway, because it makes randomization easy 08:59:25 Blkt: I suspect it might help that linkedin places the VP as second-degree connection :3 08:59:40 https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=154887 - 2006 year 08:59:46 bug not fixed 09:02:31 -!- holycow [~start@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:05:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-032.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:05:15 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:59 -!- antgreen [~user@64.134.168.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:09:11 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-039.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:09:29 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:11:43 ngz [~user@239.242.24.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:09 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13:27 dehun [~user@djgames.com.ua] has joined #lisp 09:15:23 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:53 kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:16:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 09:16:23 right. SBCL as it is right now needs some sticky addresses 09:16:58 camurascura [~justinher@cpe-69-133-58-248.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:13 Sbidicuda [~antani@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:19:36 kenanb [kenanb@176.54.5.80] has joined #lisp 09:20:02 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:24:54 anonus: the assembly doesn't seem hard to PIC-ize, though I'm not a spec 09:24:59 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:41 *p_l* reminds himself for having *too many bloody things in flight* 09:27:53 TNA-MichaelK [~flux@pool-72-91-191-232.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:07 ivan-kanis [~user@136.239.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:17 Does anyone here use LISP for web programming? 09:29:24 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hqthkriwxtwjpyqx] has joined #lisp 09:30:08 TNA-MichaelK: yes, for some value of "web programming" 09:30:11 p_l: i know, there is a guide for that 09:32:25 TNA-MichaelK: and Lisp, not LISP 09:32:28 H4ns: I was thinking about using it with the AJAX/PHP/MySQL. Happen to know if that'd be reasonable? 09:32:40 p_l: Thank you. 09:32:58 TNA-MichaelK: in that combination, lisp usually replaces php 09:33:21 TNA-MichaelK: other than that, your question is far too general to be answered specifically. 09:33:41 TNA-MichaelK: some would argue that using lisp is unreasonable in any case. 09:35:22 H4ns: Yes, you're right, too general. I'm looking to make some sort of quiz for my students. A friend showed me a few simple solutions which seem much more elegant than in other languages. I thought it'd be more geared to the task of creating problems/answers on the fly. 09:36:24 TNA-MichaelK: you could look at hunchentoot and just try it out. 09:36:35 TNA-MichaelK: http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/lispweb.htm this tutorial is a bit old but still nice. 09:36:40 TNA-MichaelK: obviously, reading some background material is advised. 09:36:45 -!- dehun [~user@djgames.com.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:39:01 H4ns: Yes, I'm looking into the language structure now. I was just hoping to find some sort of plugin which computed lisp and returned it to a more traditional web language. 09:39:16 H4ns: daimrod: Thank you both. 09:39:29 TNA-MichaelK: i don't understand what you mean by "compute lisp" 09:40:02 do you mean something like CL-WHO? 09:42:21 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:30 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:42:44 Ex: jQuery newproblem -> PHP/Lisp -> Creates a new problem/answer returns it to PHP/Lisp -> MySQL -> then back to the user, not sure that'd be sane to do or not. 09:42:58 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:30 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:43:31 daimrod: CL-WHO looks good, didn't know about it, thanks. 09:43:34 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 09:45:30 TNA-MichaelK: there is http://msnyder.info/posts/2011/07/lisp-for-the-web-part-ii/ which uses jQuery. 09:45:39 TNA-MichaelK: hunchentoot, a very simple handler, parse arguments and return data... 09:47:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-039.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48:29 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:49:21 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-048.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:50:25 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has joined #lisp 09:58:00 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 09:59:26 TNA-MichaelK: small propaganda: for web application you can use modern lisp web stack based on hunchentoot - restas, cl-closure-templates and parenscript. 10:01:08 -!- paratattva [~quassel@0025111258df.click-network.com] has left #lisp 10:01:13 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@136.239.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:01:34 -!- finnrobi_ [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:02:39 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 10:02:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-048.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:02:53 goldenlight [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-kzdgilwvksjdbymf] has joined #lisp 10:03:18 restas simplifies route handling. cl-closure-templates is port of google's html templating library to common lisp. parenscript is translator from common lisp to javascript, as well, supports jquery specific "syntax", like chain calls. 10:03:20 finnrobi [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:15 restas-based web sites: lisper.ru, cliki2 (not released yet). 10:04:17 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:04:39 asvil: but viewable on the web! 10:05:32 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 10:05:43 I'm pretty sure that's what I am looking for. Thanks, this will take me some time to digest. 10:06:05 -!- cYmen_ is now known as cYmen 10:06:05 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-048.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:07:07 -!- Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:38 Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:15:16 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 10:15:39 ehu: Did you mean, that I did not provide links to documentation? sorry, http://restas.lisper.ru/en 10:15:40 parenscript - http://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/reference.html 10:15:40 cl-closure-templates - https://github.com/archimag/cl-closure-template 10:15:40 http://code.google.com/intl/ru/closure/templates/docs/commands.html 10:16:01 fgump [~fgump__@host-2-97-18-17.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:02 -!- fgump [~fgump__@host-2-97-18-17.as13285.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:09 no, that cliki2 is being tested and accessible from a public IP 10:18:32 ivan-kanis [~user@136.239.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:20:15 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:20:34 -!- kenanb [kenanb@176.54.5.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:21:14 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 10:21:22 ah, yes. https://github.com/vsedach/cliki2 or http://cliki2.lisper.ru, but vsedach (cliki2 maintainer) use embedded html, which is provided by macroreaders. And I think it is not so good for simple projects. 10:21:29 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:43 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:27:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:27:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-048.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:28:01 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-036.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:29:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 10:29:36 /use/uses 10:30:45 -!- gko [~gko@27.52.115.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:31:56 fe[nl]ix: herep 10:32:09 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:55 i always read that as "herp" 10:33:08 ahahah 10:33:39 -!- conntrack is now known as auditor 10:34:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:05 jtza8 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[~nitro_idi@EM1-114-39-134.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:37:38 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-39-134.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:38:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tpcdgqmlofkhwkoi] has left #lisp 11:42:46 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:44:27 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:45:42 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:00 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:46:37 faust45 [~faust45@94-248-48-175.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 11:46:42 jbiesnecker [~textual@116.237.69.188] has joined #lisp 11:48:34 is it real to rewrite sbcl's code to make it be PIC/PIE-compatible ? 11:48:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:06 and also mmap randomization compatible 11:49:30 bah 11:49:32 lol 11:49:39 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:49:50 and how do you debug it then ? 11:49:56 i can't run it on my hardened machine 11:50:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:50:16 i can debug it on my not PIC/PIE-enabled machine 11:50:26 well see 11:52:03 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-229-43.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:25 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:56:55 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 11:57:41 tfb [~tfb@92.40.233.113.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:57:59 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:59:39 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:49 -!- qelsi [~qelsi@205.Red-83-33-84.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:05:20 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:05:34 kushal [~kdas@117.214.2.127] has joined #lisp 12:05:34 -!- kushal [~kdas@117.214.2.127] has quit [Changing host] 12:05:34 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:08:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:42 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:09:38 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-236-227.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:10:17 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:10:55 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-136.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:28 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:18:21 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:11 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:20:38 kdas_ [~kdas@117.201.106.70] has joined #lisp 12:20:59 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:01 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:22:37 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-39-134.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:39 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:23:01 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-39-134.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@117.201.106.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:26:16 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-036.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:26:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:27:37 sure. it's just a simple matter of programming 12:27:39 Athas [~athas@194.182.142.5] has joined #lisp 12:28:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:29:39 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 12:30:54 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:30:54 -!- Athas [~athas@194.182.142.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:33:13 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 12:33:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA213DD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:34:09 pnq [~nick@172.130.252.42] has joined #lisp 12:34:57 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-96-181.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:35:07 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-058.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:36:49 hakzsam [~hakzsam@82.245.96.206] has joined #lisp 12:37:53 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-39-134.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:38:40 qelsi [~qelsi@205.Red-83-33-84.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:17 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:39:32 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:41:05 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:41:55 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@82.245.96.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:43:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:20 -!- no-name- [~no-name@39.245.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:47 -!- jbiesnecker [~textual@116.237.69.188] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:48:33 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129235064.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 12:49:34 hi 12:49:48 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:32 may I use set-difference to test the equality of two sets? 12:50:36 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:50:59 good morning 12:51:10 err, afternoon 12:51:39 Sbidicuda: you can use it to test set equality, yes. 12:51:40 kdas_ [~kdas@117.201.101.195] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 Sbidicuda: i think that's its purpose 12:52:22 ok thanks 12:52:30 sorta like asking "May I use + to add?" 12:53:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:58 because in the book: COMMON LISP: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation, page 175 an exercise ask to write a function set-equal to test two sets equality 12:55:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:57:16 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 12:57:37 Sbidicuda: you could use (equalp (sort (copy-list set1)) (sort (copy-list set2))) too ... 12:57:43 Sbidicuda: my statement was wrong - please ignore 12:58:02 yates: np 12:58:20 flip214: no 12:58:53 flip214, H4ns: I'm posterdati on another PC! :=) 12:59:03 flip214: consider (set-difference '(1 1) '(1)) 12:59:25 H4ns: set-difference doesn't care about position 12:59:42 Sbidicuda: did i say that it does not? 12:59:54 H4ns: no 13:00:05 Sbidicuda: so why do you tell me? 13:00:35 H4ns: because is flip214 solution depends on elements position? 13:00:48 Sbidicuda: flip214's solution is not a solution. 13:00:52 H4ns: if your sets can have duplicates, put (remove-duplicates) instead of copy-list 13:01:41 H4ns: ok 13:03:27 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:03:27 H4ns: please enlighten me, anything else I don't see? 13:03:40 Sbidicuda: (defun set-equal (seta setb) (if (set-difference 'seta 'setb) nil (if set-difference 'setb 'seta nil t) t)) 13:03:53 maybe? 13:04:41 no, that won't work 13:04:47 flip214: no, (equalp (sort (remove-duplicates a) ... would work 13:04:54 flip214: but it would not be efficient. 13:05:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:05:16 (null (setf-difference set-a set-b)) 13:05:17 removing duplicates may not be necessary depending on the problem specification 13:05:53 -!- amagnus [~alice@alice.ipq.co] has quit [Quit: amagnus] 13:06:04 yates: right. there are many ways how the problems statement can be modified to make things easier. 13:06:19 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-241-86-82.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:06:19 H4ns: short of populating a hash table, what other "efficient" ways are there? 13:06:22 yates: yet, if talking about sets represented as lists in common lisp, duplicate elements are allowed. 13:06:52 (defun set-equal-p (set-a set-b) (null (set-difference set-a set-b))) 13:07:03 kenanb [kenanb@188.38.176.248] has joined #lisp 13:07:13 flip214: remove-duplicates is inefficient because it cannot assume the list to be sorted. if you first sort, you can use a faster algorithm to remove the dups. 13:07:40 kdas__ [~kdas@117.201.105.254] has joined #lisp 13:08:19 with the possible disadvantage that you have many duplicates to sort ... of course, remove-duplicates on a sorted list is O(n), so it only depends on the assumption of multipleness ... 13:08:53 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-78-117.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:19 BuffaloBuffalo [~BuffaloBu@158-147-137-27.harris.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:41 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@117.201.101.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:14:12 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 13:15:23 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:17:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:18:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-058.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:20:20 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:20:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:24:21 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-78-117.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 13:24:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:54 ngz [~user@239.242.24.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:57 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:26:29 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:49 -!- Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:43 *Xach* feels the excitement! 13:29:13 -!- sunmix [~user@223.205.68.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:33 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@136.239.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:29:57 -!- kdas__ [~kdas@117.201.105.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:30:46 *splittist* imagines huge turbines spinning up the caverns under quicklisp labs 13:31:13 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@m212-96-64-74.cust.tele2.kz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:29 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.206.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:41 s/up/up in/ 13:31:44 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:32:16 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has left #lisp 13:32:33 patterngazer [~patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:38 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 13:33:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:34:54 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:35:37 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 13:36:46 amagnus [~alice@alice.ipq.co] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:49 ivan-kanis [~user@136.239.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:48 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:53 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:39:37 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:43 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:40:57 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:42:17 don't forget the control rods getting removed ;) 13:42:47 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:45:20 And you thought 'The China Syndrome' had something to do with Asia... http://china.govoffice.com/ 13:46:20 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:46:22 see also http://www.futilitycloset.com/2012/01/12/small-world-6/ 13:47:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:48:18 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:51:24 -!- kenanb [kenanb@188.38.176.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:25 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:25 morning Xach 13:55:30 howdy dto 13:55:53 Xach: would you like to see a brief video of the game ive been working on? 13:55:56 how are you doing 13:55:58 Is it in Lisp? 13:56:20 yep. 13:56:22 one moment. 13:56:26 Xach: When's the next quicklisp update? :) 13:56:51 http://ompldr.org/vY2tjag/xalcyon-video2-2.ogv also http://ompldr.org/vY2wwZg/xalc222.mp4 13:56:51 naryl: I aim to have an update ready in a few days 13:56:54 LiamH [~healy@wireless-206-196-161-202.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:57:24 Thanks. We need that new lparallel. 13:57:41 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:57:56 neat 13:58:01 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436984.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:58:29 -!- LiamH [~healy@wireless-206-196-161-202.umd.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:34 Xach: this game requires a gamepad with dual analog sticks. 13:58:45 LiamH [~healy@wireless-206-196-161-202.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:58:52 Xach: might distinguish it from other pc games, few of them have console-style controls despite many pc gamers owning gamepads 13:59:00 i mean indie pc games 13:59:11 *Xach* remembers trying to play Doom deathmatch with a Gravis PC Gamepad 13:59:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:59:59 Xach: That probably didn't end well 14:00:02 -!- drysdam [~dr@pool-70-16-206-187.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:00:46 *qelsi* recommends playing doom with one hand (keyboard) for an interesting challenge. 14:00:57 I used to be pretty competitive but it began after I switched to keyboard + mouse. 14:01:48 gravis gamepad :) 14:02:15 drysdam [~dr@pool-70-16-206-187.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:31 -!- goldenlight [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-kzdgilwvksjdbymf] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:04:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-018.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:19 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:04:55 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-047.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:05:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:06:47 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 14:07:43 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:08:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-047.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:10:11 Xach: what might be wrong when a new system on local-projects does not get picked up by quicklisp? 14:11:03 H4ns: (equalp (sort (remove-duplicates a) ... would NOT work, because remove-duplicates may return its parameter if there are no duplicates, so you're destructing it with sort. 14:11:19 if I load the asd manually, then I can quickload 14:11:30 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-045.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:11:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:44 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:51 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 14:12:00 -!- pnq [~nick@172.130.252.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:12:08 "remove-duplicates returns a sequence that may share with sequence or may be identical to sequence if no elements need to be removed." 14:12:08 14:12:12 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:13:01 -!- yates [~yates@rrcs-97-79-165-138.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 14:15:23 KaM^PreT [~Rom@180.249.49.203] has joined #lisp 14:15:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:17:35 -!- LiamH [~healy@wireless-206-196-161-202.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:17:38 LiamH1 [~healy@wireless-206-196-161-202.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 14:18:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:19:30 *KaM^PreT* ad orng ya? 14:19:31 -!- KaM^PreT [~Rom@180.249.49.203] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 14:20:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:20:57 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.105] has joined #lisp 14:21:06 is sbcl ignores supplied env $LDFLAGS ? 14:21:40 when it is linking sbcl binary 14:21:57 -!- echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:23 -!- LiamH1 [~healy@wireless-206-196-161-202.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:24:58 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:26:55 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 14:26:58 rvrebane [~rvrebane@78-28-68-71.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #lisp 14:27:21 omg 14:27:38 it uses $LINKFLAGS instead of $LDFLAGS O_O 14:27:55 -!- qelsi [~qelsi@205.Red-83-33-84.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: qelsi] 14:28:21 Guest48190 [Guest48190@host21-117-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:28:29 kill me now 14:28:37 ciao 14:29:09 how god allows such things to exist? >.< 14:29:09 !list 14:30:05 -!- Guest48190 [Guest48190@host21-117-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 14:30:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:30:47 Illiux [~nol@cl-wireless-pittnet-150-212-5-200.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 14:30:51 clisp doesn't ignores LDFLAGS. 14:32:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:32:06 em, do i not tell that i'm compiling sbcl ? 14:32:07 -!- drysdam [~dr@pool-70-16-206-187.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:32:34 dto: FWIW, I enjoyed it. It had a happy ending! All that LOSE was getting depressing (: 14:32:34 anonus: edit the makefile directly if you're just trying to see if you can make things work. 14:32:42 drysdam [~dr@pool-70-16-206-187.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:06 anonus: your choice. 14:33:24 Disabling address randomisation for SBCL seems simpler to me; we have a native code compiler in there, and the codebase certainly hasn't been exhaustively checked for security bugs. 14:33:27 pkhuong: nope, i'm fixing the ebuild for lisp overlay 14:34:24 pnq [~nick@ACA3BF49.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:27 pkhuong: at least some of that code could be changed to work with PIC, though 14:34:40 so now i should make additional pointless patch >.< 14:35:14 sbcl hands you the gun. sbcl dares you to pull the trigger. 14:35:15 pjb: right. thanks. so basically, my point is proven :) 14:35:25 I enjoyed some of the comments in the bug log 14:35:25 sunmix [~user@223.207.47.98] has joined #lisp 14:35:26 p_l: I doubt it. 14:35:33 "does sbcl generate code at runtime?" 14:36:16 pkhuong: the assembler files that caused linking errors *could* be, IMHO compiled PIE 14:37:17 p_l: the assembly exists so that generated code can jump to it at fixed addresses. 14:37:33 and, in some case, jump at offsets as well. 14:38:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-045.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:39:29 *p_l* wonders if it would be possible to augment compiler to output relocation data 14:40:23 sure it's possible. 14:40:39 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:11 there is no god 14:41:13 i love how libX11 assumes losing a server connection is fatal and exits regardless of error handler 14:41:19 terrible for lisp 14:41:24 splittist: :) yes i may add a shield and a hit meter to make the player a bit more resilient :) 14:41:31 oGMo: at least it fails fast... 14:41:37 p_l: heh 14:41:48 oGMo: Swing will leave your app with nullPointers, everywhere 14:42:03 ... and that's just after engaging xscreensaver at wrong time 14:42:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:12 p_l: ergh 14:42:28 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-061.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:42:36 anonus: nope. Get over it. 14:43:49 The runtimes for SBCL and CMUCL are huge hacks that abuse posix to support their own almost-operating-system. 14:44:05 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:44:43 Kenjin: the automatic part of local-projects is based on the timestamp of the directory vs. the timestamp of the system-index.txt file in that directory 14:45:02 Kenjin: it's possible that the logic is wrong, or that the timestamps didn't get adjusted like I expected, or something else. 14:45:59 pkhuong: ok, let it be... but why it uses LINKFLAGS instead of env-supplied LDFLAGS? T_T 14:46:18 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:48 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 14:48:27 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:49:28 Xach: something weird with my files maybe, because I just tried with a new system and worked fine 14:49:37 anonus: who knows? It probably dates back to a grad student's choice 20 years ago, back when there might not have been such a strong consensus between SUN, DEC and who knows what crap ran on x86. 14:50:01 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-78-117.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:50:24 sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:29 config for *BSD uses LDFLAGS, 14:50:35 config for linux is not >.< 14:52:21 ah, looks like a one-off hack for linux/alpha that no one bothered to make fully right. 14:52:41 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:52:43 nope, not even. 14:53:02 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:43 Xach: I modified the asd and now loads fine. Maybe some combination of actions that got the asd timestamp in a state that breaks something. Now system-index is up to date 14:53:54 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:00 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has joined #lisp 14:54:13 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:54:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-061.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:54:15 SLB [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 14:54:16 -!- SLB is now known as [SLB] 14:54:43 yup. The naming scheme dates back to the initial fork from CMUCL. Someone who cared about bsd changed it. 14:55:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:56:05 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-047.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:58:15 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:55 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-222.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:59:00 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:15 *Odin-* finds the "Unix is right" mentality somewhat surprising, here of all places... 14:59:20 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:59:54 Unix is not right, it's the worse is better. Unix is wrong everywhere, but in a genial way that makes it right. But still, it's wrong. 15:00:10 Odin-: http://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf 15:00:18 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 15:00:35 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 15:01:20 pjb: Read it already. Several times over, in fact. 15:01:31 Odin-: eh? Conforming to the environment is a priori a good thing. 15:02:23 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 15:02:30 Greetings lispers 15:03:28 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:03 H4ns: what's the scoop with drakma landing on weitz.de? 15:04:14 Oh, did I miss it? 15:04:34 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 15:04:34 Looks good, thanks. 15:04:43 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-222.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:56 pkhuong: It's usually good, but not unconditionally. 15:05:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:21 Odin-: what's the condition here? 15:05:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-047.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:06:26 pkhuong: Here, symmetry and using LDFLAGS probably is better. What I found interesting is the apparent assumption that LINKFLAGS was deliberately out of sync. 15:07:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:07:20 Which, as you pointed out, need not be the case, especially considering the rather conflicted development history of POSIX environments. 15:07:22 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-58-225.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:07:38 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-145-218.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:09:15 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-96-181.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:49 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-96-181.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:09:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:10:47 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-229-43.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:27 maybe it's just that, regularly being in close proximity with grad students, I have no trouble assuming their lack of interest for that kind of issue. Nobody graduates because their makefile is a jewel of conventions. 15:11:35 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-222.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:12:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:33 The build process for my current academic project is a shell script on top of main.cpp, and ccache (: 15:12:34 jdz_ [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 15:14:31 pkhuong: I'll see your shell script and raise you. I just got a project that requires Fortran77 on OpenVMS. 15:14:52 The 80's called, they want their OS back. 15:15:00 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-96-181.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:15:03 ThomasH: sh main.cpp is still awesome ;) 15:15:42 *ThomasH* chuckles 15:16:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:16:40 it does obey the usual flags though (: 15:16:43 ThomasH: Tell them it's gone off 15:17:44 I'm avoiding that project today and getting back to some CL. 15:17:47 hmm... seems LDFLAGS isn't actually POSIX... ;) 15:17:52 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-nrzjnowshmgrukns] has joined #lisp 15:17:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:18:08 What's POSIX? 15:18:33 My dog is. 15:18:43 Good name. 15:18:52 benny [~benny@i577A74DE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:19:01 awesome 15:19:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:20:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:20:29 it would tempt me to do unspeakable things to the poor dog 15:21:02 fe[nl]ix: You live in Sweden? 15:21:22 no, why do you ask ? 15:21:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:22:12 -!- chairos is now known as inklesspen 15:22:17 fe[nl]ix: Perverse joke, it's legal to do unspeakable things to poor dogs in Sweden. 15:22:51 heh. Found it. {C,LD}FLAGS are defined for C language dev environment, as part of make 15:22:52 really ? 15:23:29 details please 15:23:44 fe[nl]ix: Google it. 15:23:45 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.236.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:59 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:14 *ski_* . o O ( "Unaussprechlichen Kulten" ) 15:24:33 Ia! 15:24:33 fe[nl]ix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoophilia_and_the_law 15:25:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 15:25:42 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 15:25:47 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 15:27:09 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:27:15 I see 15:27:28 ThomasH: I wasn't referring to that :D 15:28:25 more like skinning it alive to turn it into steak 15:29:03 fe[nl]ix: So... you're from Korea? 15:29:45 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-063.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:29:45 *ski_* thought fe[nl]ix meant something like putting its brain in a jar and sending it to Pluto 15:29:52 ThomasH: nope :) 15:30:08 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 15:30:09 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31:07 fe[nl]ix: Having grown up thinking of dogs only as pets, every time I learn about their other "uses", it seems to traumatize my brain and I can't will myself to forget. 15:31:14 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 15:31:50 *ThomasH* refrains from any more OT posts 15:34:09 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:10 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:34:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:38:28 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-021.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:38:32 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 15:38:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-063.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:40:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:40:50 Frozenlock [~user@216.113.73.34] has joined #lisp 15:41:00 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:01 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:41:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:41:21 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 15:43:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:48 -!- drwho [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:43:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:44:10 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129235064.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:44:17 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-021.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:44:52 -!- aib [kvirc@unaffiliated/aib42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:29 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:46:37 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:46:47 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-169-124.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:01 lanceio [Lance@59.92.172.118] has joined #lisp 15:47:07 -!- Illiux [~nol@cl-wireless-pittnet-150-212-5-200.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 15:47:15 can you give me a startup tutorial on lisp? 15:47:34 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 15:48:07 compj [~compj@p54BF46B6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:48:20 lanceio: http://cliki.net 15:48:31 lanceio: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ Is an easier tutorial if you end up needing something a little simpler to start with. 15:49:12 im not sure if im NOT supposed to say thank you 15:49:15 so anyway 15:49:17 thank you 15:49:24 You're welcome. 15:49:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:51:41 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:52:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:35 r126l [~r126l@martini.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 15:52:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:53:58 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:58 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:53:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:54:12 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-051.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:57:00 kenanb [kenanb@188.38.176.248] has joined #lisp 15:57:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:58:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:58:53 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-051.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:30 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.75] has joined #lisp 16:01:44 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:51 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-050.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:03:24 Illiux [~nol@mc-wireless-pittnet-150-212-11-180.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 16:03:53 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:43 msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 16:05:56 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:56 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:05:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:06:53 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tocbscnftxckmvjf] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:41 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:08:47 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:08:51 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:14 -!- msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:11:05 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:11:11 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:11 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:11:11 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:12:23 -!- ltaoist [~mo@183.20.109.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:12:56 cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 16:14:54 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:17:11 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:17:21 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:17:49 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:04 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:04 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:18:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:18:29 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:50 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-050.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:06 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279436984.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: cheers] 16:24:15 -!- blandest [~user@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has left #lisp 16:25:58 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-222.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:25 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:50 Anyone every tried to get XPATH working with ECL? 16:28:31 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:29:09 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:29:59 -!- sunmix [~user@223.207.47.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:30:09 sunmix [~user@223.207.47.98] has joined #lisp 16:30:17 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 16:30:45 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:31:35 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:41 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 16:31:57 -!- mk_ [~mike@ks391369.kimsufi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:32:09 mikekelly [~mike@ks391369.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:20 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-196-229.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:22 mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:37 -!- Illiux [~nol@mc-wireless-pittnet-150-212-11-180.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 16:34:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:40 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-221-222.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:08 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:40 antifuchs: is your gmail filter thingy available somewhere? 16:37:43 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:59 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:41:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:42:58 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:58 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:42:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:44:59 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129019130.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 16:47:12 molqr [~m@202.3.77.11] has joined #lisp 16:49:57 hey all! an absolute noob here ... i set up emacs+slime-cvs+sbcl as in https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Slime ... then i start emacs and M-x slime ... what i get is a prompt with * ... however the tuts on the www show the REPL with a chevron > how do i get that? and how do i gracefully exit the environment? currently C-x C-c reports i have to kill some processes 16:49:58 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-222.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:50:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:51:43 molqr: http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ he explains how to setup slime with quicklisp. 16:51:54 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:52:07 daimrod: many thanks. 16:54:50 -!- lanceio [Lance@59.92.172.118] has quit [Quit: Localhost Calling] 16:55:58 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-155-049.dsl.sil.at] has left #lisp 16:57:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:09 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:09 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:58:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:00:08 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:00:28 cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 17:00:37 tca [~tca@a79-168-253-128.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:01:52 when i start slime using M-x slime does some lisp process run on my localhost ... nmap localhost shows nothing though 17:02:37 molqr: yes 17:02:54 molqr: When you start slime it starts a CL in a separate process 17:03:09 -!- jdz_ [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:11 -!- sunmix [~user@223.207.47.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:25 sunmix [~user@223.207.47.98] has joined #lisp 17:03:59 loke: thanks. how do i gracefully exit from slime? 17:04:27 Press , (comma) then type sayonara (or sa) 17:05:16 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:51 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-411551.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:06:23 n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@188.19.232.85] has joined #lisp 17:07:03 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:04 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:07:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:07:45 loke: there must be something wrong in my setup. the prompt is a * and i do not have any TAB completion ... i m guessing pressing , should have taken me to the mini bar but it does not. 17:07:56 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@188.19.232.85] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:12 molqr: yeah, that's because you're interacting in the *inferior-lisp* buffer 17:08:19 The variable SAYONARA is unbound. is what i get.. 17:08:24 use the QUicklisp installation instructions 17:08:41 loke: ah i see. thanks 17:08:50 try C-x b and then to see what other buffers you have. maybe there's a *slime-repl... one? 17:09:35 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 17:10:20 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:46 Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-202-87.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:10:50 -!- tca [~tca@a79-168-253-128.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:35 I had that problem too when I first tried to use slime. Turned out I had screwed up when installing it 17:11:45 It's been years now, so I can't remember my mistake 17:11:53 Using Quicklisp to install will fix it though. 17:12:15 molqr: did you add stuff manually to .emacs? Can you paste it? Also, where did you install SLime from? 17:12:54 *sipo* installed slime wrong also and for a long time could not jum 17:15:14 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.75] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:17:26 -!- patterngazer [~patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: Copywight 2011 Elmer Fudd. All wights wesewved.] 17:18:18 loke: that's because you need (slime-setup '(slime-repl ...)) 17:18:33 but quicklisp-slime-helper does it. 17:18:41 gigamonkey: yeah, github.com/antifuchs/gmail-britta/ - completely undocumented for now, sorry 17:18:51 I prefer (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-xref-browser)) 17:19:10 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127463 17:19:55 That's all I do 17:20:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:05 eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has joined #lisp 17:22:05 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has quit [Changing host] 17:22:05 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:22:18 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120129021758]] 17:23:04 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3BF49.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:25:27 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:30:17 -!- 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[~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:00 sharepointlover [~jeffholla@137.28.156.75] has joined #lisp 17:41:35 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 17:41:42 * *inferior-lisp* *sldb sbcl/1* *scratch* *Messages* *slime-events* drysdam i have those buffers 17:42:41 loke: i have these in my .emacs http://codepad.org/Z7OSxGSL 17:42:45 repl buffer isn't being made. that's all I know... 17:43:20 drysdam: i see. will look in to in and report back. thanks. 17:44:23 molqr: use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 17:44:37 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:44:46 did you install quicklisp and quicklisp-slime-helper? 17:44:49 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:59 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:59 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:46:59 eno 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[~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:58:56 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:01:32 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.31.44] has joined #lisp 18:01:44 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 18:02:33 -!- kenanb [kenanb@188.38.176.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:42 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:05:08 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.16.149.185] has quit [Quit: paul0] 18:05:56 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-198-154.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:59 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:31 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 18:07:49 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.233.113.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:52 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:52 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:07:52 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:09:19 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:09:36 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:13:05 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-124-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:29 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:13:56 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.212.17] has joined #lisp 18:14:23 qelsi [~qelsi@205.Red-83-33-84.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:44 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:14:44 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.212.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:46 daimrod: no i have not installed quicklisp ... have to read up on that ... my last attempt at getting a start left me wit the lesson that a basic lisp development environment is to use emacs+slime-cvs+sbcl ... so i was just trying to set that up and running 18:14:48 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 18:14:50 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-001-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:33 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:16:39 molqr: these days best bet is SBCL + Emacs + Quicklisp and then use Quicklisp to install SLIME. 18:16:47 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:47 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:16:47 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:17:05 gigamonkey: thanks so much. 18:17:24 i see quicklisp has peter siebel's vote as well ... :) 18:17:43 s/ie/ei/ 18:18:00 gigamonkey: sorry. 18:18:42 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-027.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:19:00 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:23 No worries. Just stamping out error where I can. 18:19:44 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:19:56 s/er/re/ too 18:20:51 would somebody please point me to a good getting started guide for "emacs+sbcl+quicklisp"? though i m off to google for it at any rate 18:21:01 gigamonkey: is it pronounced "seeble"? 18:21:25 molqr: you mean getting it set up or actually using it? 18:21:45 sykopomp: SIGH-bull 18:21:47 dlowe: getting it set up please. 18:21:49 -!- kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:21:53 gigamonkey: thanks 18:22:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:19 molqr: you should read the link I gave you earlier. 18:22:28 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 18:22:37 *molqr* used to pronounce that wrongly as well :( 18:22:42 17:54 < daimrod> molqr: http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ he explains how to setup slime with quicklisp. 18:22:51 daimrod: sorry. thanks again. 18:22:59 *slyrus* was trying to figure out signal condition was H-bull 18:23:07 s/signal/what signal/ 18:26:15 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:26:45 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:27:30 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 18:27:32 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:27:45 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:27:55 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@136.239.140.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:28:09 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:41 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:41 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:28:41 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:30:49 SegFaultAX|work 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[~BuffaloBu@158-147-137-27.harris.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:30 BuffaloBuffalo [~BuffaloBu@158-147-137-27.harris.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:33 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:53:37 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:56:08 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 18:58:07 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:58:25 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:00:31 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:47 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-012.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:01:48 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:14 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-oabaxxjokwnlivgh] has joined #lisp 19:06:46 daimrod: your suggestion to use (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) instead of (slime-setup) finally gave me the *slime-repl sbcl* buffer and now the prompt is CL-USER> .... now i can start learning some lisp :) 19:07:33 thanks to all guys for helping a noob out .. have not used quicklisp yet as archlinux does not have it in it's repos ... thanks everybody again 19:07:59 molqr: the whole point of quicklisp is that once you have Lisp installed you only have to download one file and load it. 19:08:23 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:45 molqr: i have this which is all pretty helpful: (slime-setup '(slime-asdf slime-fancy)) 19:09:12 molqr: quicklisp is meant to be installable through just downloading the file. It installs at the user level, so it doesn't put anything in your global system. 19:09:35 molqr: and if you want a bit of whimsy (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf slime-banner)) 19:09:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09:58 molqr: I would also grab swank and quicklisp-slime-helper from quicklisp, instead of from AUR, or wherever slime is. 19:10:13 (slime-fancy doesn't include slime-banner does it?) 19:10:18 what does slime-banner do other than the animation at the start (which I learned recently can be disabled independently) 19:10:19 nope 19:10:31 and the quotes 19:10:36 felideon: I think that's it. And maybe the inspirational quote. 19:10:40 the leomonodor thing 19:10:57 I have the lemonodor quotes, and I've never used slime-banner. 19:11:04 molqr: sykopomp is right, you shouldn't try to mix AUR pkgs and quicklisp, just let quicklisp handles everything for you. 19:11:32 I only use AUR for implementation packages when needed 19:11:36 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:36 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:11:36 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:11:48 oh I've only seen implementation-specific quotes. 19:11:53 molqr: heck, don't install anything lisp-library-related through the package manager. The only thing I use the package manager for the implementations themselves. 19:12:07 and even then, there's some problem with the sbcl in the repos that I can't remember right now. 19:12:10 like clisp w/ threads (that was a fail... build process couldn't handle test case failure) and recent ECL with unicode and threads 19:12:16 evidently i do not know much about quicklisp 19:12:17 and it's bitten people a few times. 19:12:36 aur/sbcl-git is fine. 19:12:57 but i was admonished last time when i tried to install some python package using setup.py .. i was advised to use pacman for each and every install 19:13:02 sykopomp: b0rked debugger 19:13:25 molqr: that's what you get for asking advice :-) 19:13:27 sykopomp: installing sbcl (and ecl) manually easens my mind. i perefr it over my package manager these days. 19:13:51 molqr: it's different with python, perl, etc, which have relatively good support in arch for packages. 19:14:02 i see. 19:14:22 all these comments and advice is valuable ... thanks you all. 19:14:26 molqr: what sykopomp says is 100% correct. lisp is the only language for which i do it manually. if you support a distribution, please fix this issue :) 19:14:42 plus, #lisp doesn't like dealing with implementation packages. There's some old debian-related war wounds that are still healing. 19:15:16 Thankfully, setting up Lisp implementations and packages is so easy today, too. 19:15:35 sykopomp: which war wounds would be that? 19:15:40 gentoo is rumored to have more acceptable emerge-based lisp support, but if you're using gentoo, you're probably a masochist anyway, so go ahead. 19:16:07 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:16:13 prxq: common-lisp-controller i'd assume? 19:16:23 ^ 19:17:00 that's a war wound? How so? the guy who did clc was part of the lisp community, and iirc some people liked it. 19:17:08 and it was in debian. 19:17:09 *madnificent* is like intellisense(TM) or autocomplete 19:17:12 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:17:15 osa1 [~sinan@88.241.140.107] has joined #lisp 19:17:37 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:59 hi, how can I have second REPL in Slime/SBCL, pls? 19:18:02 prxq: I just recall people showing up here with complaints about how clc was doing something or other or breaking implementations 19:18:05 but I might be making that up. 19:18:47 I seem to recall people having a lot of trouble with CLC because they couldn't figure out which packages were being included, either from their package manager or by some other means. 19:19:09 puchacz: you can use C-u M-x slime to start another lisp process. 19:19:48 daimrod: cannot I have 2 threads for REPLs? I could do it in the old days with running external process and slime-connect ing 19:19:51 Or just M-x slime and answer y. 19:19:56 iic, clc basically sucked if you wanted to use lisp directly, as opposed to just install a lisp based package. 19:20:12 s/iic/iirc 19:20:46 puchacz: uh pjb is right, forget the C-u. 19:21:04 what about 2 REPLs for the same lisp? 19:21:08 puchacz: but I don't think you can have 2 REPLs with 1 lisp. 19:21:14 ok 19:21:19 vantage|home [~vantage@12.204-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:21:28 but I'm not 100% sure. 19:21:34 does M-x slime-connect allow you to connect to the same lisp if you use the same port for swank? 19:21:37 There should be a way. 19:21:57 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:22:06 I can't remember how it worked with slime-connect, but I am certain I had 2 REPLs 19:22:08 madnificent: looks like it works. 19:22:22 so, am I to slime-connect? 19:22:34 yes. 19:22:56 open-network-stream: make client process failed: connection refused, :name, SLIME Lisp, :buffer, nil, :host, 127.0.0.1, :service, 4005 19:23:10 you have to start it at first. 19:23:27 I have standard REPL 19:23:29 wait a second, how do you ask swank what port it's currently running on? 19:23:31 and inferior-lisp 19:23:39 look at *inferior-lisp* 19:23:43 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 19:23:43 because i don't think it runs on 4005 by default. i think it takes a random port 19:23:50 you should see something like ;; Swank started at port: 40716. 19:23:56 ;; Swank started at port: 52192. 19:23:57 y 19:24:11 how do I make it start on say 4005? 19:24:35 actually, let me dig 19:25:30 not in my .sbclrc :) 19:25:48 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-oabaxxjokwnlivgh] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:25:59 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-222.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:26:43 4005 is the default to swank:create-server, m-x slime usually uses a different port though 19:27:09 actually, even if I try to connect to 52192, it fails 19:27:19 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-onsvlwewvytsqgut] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:28:05 maybe it doesn't use :style swank:*communication-style* or something like this. 19:28:25 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 19:28:28 I'll give up, for long running processes, I can use *inferior-lisp* 19:28:32 thanks anyway 19:28:34 puchacz: if you use M-x slime-connect it will ask you the port, just enter 52192 there 19:28:38 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 19:28:43 madnificent: this is what I did 19:28:45 but it refuses 19:28:54 You can find out ports with netstat -tnpl 19:29:15 pjb: 52192 is the right port 19:29:15 or better even sudo netstat -tnpl, since that will also display the process names. 19:29:31 maxm--- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:53 -!- maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:54 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:55 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-198-154.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:35 puchacz: you can also start your lisp separately, load swank and call (swank:start-server "/path/to/portfile") which writes the port number to connect to in that file. i do that for my window manager. 19:31:21 madnificent: yeah, I was using external lisp process in pre-quicklisp world 19:31:37 now I do exclusively M-x slime 19:31:48 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:48 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:31:48 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:34:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-012.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:38 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-044.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:34:46 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.65.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:35:16 puchacz: I get connection refused for a second repl on a lisp created by m-x SLIME, but for a lisp launched separately that I ran swank:create-server in accepts multiple repls 19:35:20 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 19:35:37 Vivitron: this is what I remember 19:36:28 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:09 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:10 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:37:10 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:38:51 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399699.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:41:00 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:41:43 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 19:42:07 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-411551.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:19 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:46:03 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:03 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:46:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:50:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:51:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:45 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:52 hi 19:54:44 hello ehu 19:55:51 hi ehu 19:59:01 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:00:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-044.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:34 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-047.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:00:59 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:01:23 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-198-154.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:56 dca` [~user@178.252.127.251] has joined #lisp 20:02:41 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 20:02:45 are there any slime devs around? 20:03:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:05:09 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-202-87.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:07:19 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0134ec.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:31 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:10:22 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:11:11 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:12 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:11:12 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:12:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined 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21:44:41 -!- maxm--- is now known as maxm 21:45:09 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-001-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:46:29 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 21:48:57 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:49:51 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 21:49:52 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 21:50:55 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 21:53:58 DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.21.242] has joined #lisp 21:55:39 Is there a way to force CL to print an s-expression all on one line, no matter how long? 21:55:40 davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:06 (well, I mean an easy lazy person way...) 21:56:13 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 21:56:15 ... write? 21:56:25 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:29 or print with pretty-print set to null? 21:57:07 p_l: that's enough? I was over-thinking.... 21:57:18 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:57:23 just shooting from my memory 21:57:41 should be very close to enough 21:57:55 probably setting *print-pretty* to nil would do it, but not guaranteed most likely 21:58:13 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399699.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:14 Without pretty printing, there's nothing that can introduce newlines in lists. 21:59:15 p_l: WRITE doesn't do it, but PRINT with *PRETTY-PRINT* bound to NIL does. 21:59:25 right 21:59:27 (meta-T that last..) 22:00:36 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-a9b1e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:08 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 22:01:09 rpg: i don't think so 22:01:16 With *print-pretty* bound to nil, I get the same single line output with prin1 print and write. 22:01:39 rpg: *print-pretty* nil, also *print-right-margin* 22:01:47 clozure cl seems to print everything on one line too 22:02:14 SHODAN [~shozan@c-a9b1e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:02:21 Once *print-pretty* is nil, *print-right-margin* is notused anymore. 22:02:25 jbiesnecker [~textual@116.237.69.188] has joined #lisp 22:02:29 maxm: AFAICT *print-right-margin* NIL just means "leave it to the implementation to choose the right margin." Do you find that it changes things? 22:02:37 its not? I was searching sbcl sources for it, and it seemed to use it 22:02:39 for wrapping 22:03:04 It does. When *print-pretty* is true. 22:03:17 -!- Guest59765 [~jdz@host30-105-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:20 maxm: If you look at the CLHS, it says *print-right-margin* NIL means "implementation-dependent." 22:03:39 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 22:03:53 yea sbcl defaults it to 78 when its nil, but you can set it to kind of high value like 500 or something.. I don't know if it will print any diffirent then if *print-pretty* nil 22:03:58 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@12.204-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:04:08 not sure if *print-pretty* does other fancy stuff then wrapping 22:07:09 pjb: your rdp libraries don't build 22:07:14 rdp and rdp.basic that is 22:08:03 com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.dictionary does not designate any package 22:12:32 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:47 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:14:50 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.75] has quit [Quit: Offline] 22:15:06 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:15:12 Xach: thanks, I'll look into it. 22:15:50 The slime-banner contrib... also displays a banner in the REPL with the implementation name and port. 22:17:12 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:14 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129019130.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:33 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:23:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:23:23 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:26:20 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 22:26:59 mathrick [~mathrick@2.104.92.204] has joined #lisp 22:28:24 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 22:29:38 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:30:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:30:44 Xach: I pushed the correction. The asd was missing a dependency on com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum. 22:31:55 pjb: phew 22:33:19 Since I load it in my rc file, I tend to forget about it. 22:33:55 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 22:34:30 Sbidicuda [~antani@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:38:22 -!- faust45 [~faust45@94-248-48-175.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Quit: faust45] 22:38:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:45 what would you do without quicklisp CI!! 22:39:00 QA you mean? 22:39:04 What's CI? 22:39:09 continuous integration? 22:39:15 ^ 22:39:27 I'd wait and wait and wait for bug reports :-) 22:39:32 francogrex [~user@109.130.72.22] has joined #lisp 22:39:39 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.72.22] has left #lisp 22:39:40 pjb: Now I get "Illegal loop context :DO" 22:39:46 *Xach* scratches head 22:40:03 Me too, here it works 22:40:42 If I update quicklisp, do I get the updated systems, or do you test them in a private sandbox? 22:42:41 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-118-139-17-1.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 22:42:45 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-118-139-17-1.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Client Quit] 22:43:22 -!- jbiesnecker [~textual@116.237.69.188] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:45:01 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:45:27 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.137.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:45:46 I test in private and when everything works, publish updates 22:46:05 Hopefully everything working coincides with my desired publish dates... 22:46:15 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:46:35 Do you have a script to let us test it in private too? 22:46:45 With the same configuration. 22:46:54 Sorry, I don't. Do you have SBCL? That might be enough to reproduce for you. 22:47:07 Ok, I was with ccl. I'll try with sbcl. 22:48:37 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:12 Xach: updating quicklisp with ccl 1.7 I just got 0: (PARSE-INTEGER " New functio" :START 0 :END 12 :RADIX 8 :JUNK-ALLOWED NIL) / 1: (QL-MINITAR::PAYLOAD-SIZE #(114 64 99 111 109 109 111 110 22:49:12 22:49:33 Hmmmm 22:50:50 "Lisp threads are implemented as preemptively-scheduled, native operating-system threads." from Wikipedia entry about CCL. what they mean by "lisp threads" here? 22:51:10 is there kind threading in spesification? 22:51:15 no 22:51:16 decaf: no 22:51:30 I thought so 22:51:37 decaf: what they mean is that the threads running lisp code in CCL are native, os threads 22:51:39 The wikipedia entry most likely refers to what is the most common method of threading in those implementations that support it. 22:51:48 (using whatever interface library provided) 22:51:49 although cmucl supports (or used to support) green threads. 22:52:05 oh, CCL wikipedia entry! 22:52:06 Xach: corrected rdp; it was some new code still unused, that I just commented out for now. 22:52:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@2.104.92.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:52:19 *sykopomp* fails to read. 22:52:29 decaf: for example, ACL8 has green threads for Lisp, but afaik the native code you call with FFI can run concurrently 22:52:35 I read sbcl has posix threads implemented just like in C 22:53:32 decaf: not "just like in C", just using the same OS interfaces 22:53:37 mathrick [~mathrick@0x5ebd416d.terminal.tdcmobil.dk] has joined #lisp 22:53:41 that is, they are concurrent OS-based threads 22:55:04 ok, one can think C as a part of unix 22:55:35 decaf: because APIs use C calling conventions 22:55:44 decaf: indeed, some define OS as including languages editors shell services in addition to kernel. 22:55:58 and are defined in often in terms of C headers 22:56:13 hrmm, does CFFI (and/or sbcl) support returning structs from foreign functions? not pointers-to- .. 22:57:06 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:06 oGMo: you want the fsbv branch of CFFI. 22:57:40 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:57:53 lispers are the most helpful by far, thank you. 22:57:59 LiamH: hm 22:58:12 decaf: don't tell anyone 22:58:27 oGMo: you will need the libffi library. 22:58:44 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 22:59:07 LiamH: ergh? although it's probably already installed heh 22:59:10 we wouldn't want them getting the wrong idea, that we are approachable non-surly old farts 22:59:14 yeah 23:02:37 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:05:16 LiamH: oh, wow, thanks, would have been screwed without this. 23:05:38 oGMo: bah no. You just have to write/generate a couple wrappers in C. 23:06:59 pkhuong: possibly, assuming only a couple functions .. swig just generated 16522 lines of wrapper code and i have no idea how many will need it 23:10:15 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:36 hi, is there base64 like library (I know of Kevin Rosenberg's one) that let me choose which characters are allowed? 23:13:30 mathrick_ [~mathrick@2.106.103.187] has joined #lisp 23:13:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@0x5ebd416d.terminal.tdcmobil.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:13 quandle [~tim@pool-71-243-244-79.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:15:20 -!- quandle [~tim@pool-71-243-244-79.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:15:41 puchacz: what do you need it for? 23:16:15 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 23:16:23 inaimathi: for URLs, Kevin's library has url-safe switch, but it includes dots 23:16:37 ehh 23:16:38 and dots trip over copy/paste programs 23:16:55 I had hopes that when they say they'll call, they will. Eh 23:18:28 nw, I will change Kevin's library actually 23:18:42 that's what I was going to suggest 23:18:59 package.lisp seems to have a *uri-encoding-table* defined 23:19:07 y 23:19:12 and dot is a padding character 23:19:25 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:44 yup; (defvar *uri-pad-char* #\.) 23:20:45 You can probably get away by doing (setf cl-base64:*uri-pad-char* [your character here]) as part of your config 23:20:52 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:57 :: 23:20:58 it is defvar 23:21:04 not defparam 23:21:07 defparameter 23:21:44 can I reset defvar value? 23:21:59 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:16 ok, nw. I will do (let ((cl-base64::*ur-pad-char* #\whatever)) in my code 23:24:00 That should do it for a local scope. setf would work too if you want to change it for the entire pakcage 23:24:12 (you got me a bit paranoid, so I just tested it) 23:24:38 really? I did not know I could setf defvar'ed value :) 23:24:40 thanks 23:25:09 AFAIK, the difference between param and var is what happens if you do it again 23:25:35 So (defvar foo 1) (defvar foo 12) foo => 1 23:25:57 but (defparameter bar 1) (defparameter bar 12) bar => 12 23:26:04 puchacz: DEFCONSTANT is the one you can't setf. 23:26:39 ok 23:29:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:59 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@2.106.103.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:47 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34:06 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:34:16 mathrick [~mathrick@2.110.27.116] has joined #lisp 23:38:57 momo-reina [~user@p5029-ipbfp1301osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:39:27 rgrau_` [~user@99.Red-83-43-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:59 Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@2.110.27.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:42:46 mathrick [~mathrick@188.181.83.186] has joined #lisp 23:43:34 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:44:59 -!- Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:06 mathrick_ [~mathrick@0x55817866.terminal.tdcmobil.dk] has joined #lisp 23:49:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@188.181.83.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:11 what's funny, is that parameters of your programs you will have to define them with defvar, since you don't want to override them when loading the program; while variables of your programs, you will have to define them with defparameter, since you want to set them to definite values when you load the program. 23:51:27 Eg. a program that takes a port as parameter, and that needs a list of clients in a global variable, will have to have (defvar *port* 5000) ; default value, don't override if set outside of the program, it's a program parameter! and will have to have (defparameter *clients* '()) ; reset the clients when reloading the program. 23:53:10 *p_l* does a happy dance