00:00:18 NFI 00:01:15 gigamonkey: prose-diff fails due to alexandria/monkeylib-utils ONCE-ONLY exports 00:01:52 WFM. 00:02:13 Oh, hang on. 00:03:42 Ah, bother. Wrong branch. 00:03:47 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-32-106-187.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:04:14 Try pulling prose-diff now. 00:04:25 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 00:04:28 Though that's unlikely to have anything to do with the thing you pasted. 00:04:37 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:17 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:05:17 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 00:07:15 no updates 00:08:01 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:08:38 Er sorry. Now. 00:12:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 00:16:14 hydo [~hydo@69.170.161.42] has joined #lisp 00:18:01 I used to sorta like the CL package system. But the more I work with it, the more I grow to hate ti. 00:18:02 it. 00:18:08 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:22 *Xach* continues to like it 00:18:40 *Xach* must start/finish his article on the topic 00:18:59 *dlowe* just thinks it needs a bit of tweaking. 00:19:17 *gigamonkey* is pretty sure dlowe is wrong. 00:19:49 is there a recommended package for dealing with dates/times? I've got some unix timestamps to convert to a readable date format in a little practice script i'm writing 00:19:53 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-136-24.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:19:58 rson: local-time 00:20:44 see also http://lisptips.com/post/11649360174/the-common-lisp-and-unix-epochs 00:20:46 dlowe: that's about the only one I've found, I'll play with it and see if I can make it work. Thanks. 00:20:47 gigamonkey: I think all that's needed is package local nicknames, analogous to python's "import foo as bar" 00:21:03 rson: net-telent-date also works 00:21:17 Xach: thanks 00:21:25 dlowe: true, that would help. 00:22:00 dlowe: so, basically, Symbolics' relative packages? 00:22:31 p_l|brage: beats me 00:22:41 dlowe: it allowed similar functionality 00:23:44 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81B51F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:07 pnq [~nick@AC8124B5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:11 I'd rather have very long absolute names for packages and then be able to pick my own nicknames for themfor 00:24:24 rather than have some kind of package hierarchy 00:26:07 unfortunately, it requires deep reader magic, so is unlikely to be made as a CL extension 00:27:10 then again, there seem to be plenty of libraries that simply provide an implementation for each CL compiler. 00:27:22 so I suppose that could be done 00:28:33 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:28:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:28:46 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:28:54 deep? 00:29:42 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.85] has joined #lisp 00:30:38 deeper than mucking with the readtable 00:30:55 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:13 Ah 00:31:14 Once again the lack of intern-macros bites us. 00:32:04 intern-macros? 00:32:34 actually, to be consistent, it'd have to touch the whole symbol and package mechanism 00:32:41 not just the reader 00:33:39 so meh 00:33:40 dlowe: intern-macros are an idea I had where you could hook into the mechanism that takes a token and turns it into a symbol. 00:33:42 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:34:02 The default interner splits on colon, looks up a package, and interns the right side. 00:34:09 But you could do other things. 00:34:54 Maybe it would be more like *interner* that you could bind along with *readtable* than macros. 00:35:18 But anyway, a way to customize that part of the transformation from characters to Lisp data. 00:35:31 Due to the lisp nature, you could also just write another reader that returned the appropriate tree 00:35:47 beach was doing that a while ago. I wonder how that's going. 00:35:48 dlowe: yes, but then you need to write your own load and compile-file that use that reader. 00:36:03 And teach ASDF to use them instead ... 00:36:05 you can "just" hook #\( 00:36:15 and #\a to #\z 00:36:24 dlowe: Why? 00:36:42 Xach: someone might type a symbol into the repl? 00:37:06 That will be forbidden 00:37:12 hah 00:37:13 *Xach* was thinking only of files 00:37:31 Xach: I think then you run into trouble having to reimplement things like parsing floats yourself. 00:37:32 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:43 Since you can't use CL:READ to read tokens. 00:39:35 But I haven't really thought it through. 00:48:30 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:53 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:56:49 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 01:00:14 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 01:00:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:00:59 KindOne [~KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut] has joined #lisp 01:01:29 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:32 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:04:07 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.153.144.63] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:30 DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.170.113] has joined #lisp 01:11:44 -!- KindOne [~KindOne@colchester-lug/silly-fool/donut] has left #lisp 01:16:27 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:53 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has joined #lisp 01:18:39 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:22:57 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 01:23:00 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:12 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:12 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:27:24 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 01:27:33 -!- hydo [~hydo@69.170.161.42] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 01:29:44 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:56 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.170.113] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:33:14 kanru` [~user@218-167-101-30.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:03 rmathews_ [~roshan@59.92.84.84] has joined #lisp 01:35:44 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.56.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:44 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 01:37:00 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 01:37:44 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:44:42 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 01:44:56 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:47:52 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:48:39 X-Scale` [email@2001:5c0:1000:b::9eff] has joined #lisp 01:49:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:50:15 Jasko [~tjasko@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 01:50:18 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@108.60.121.114] has quit [Client Quit] 01:50:18 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 01:51:24 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 01:54:52 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.100.166] has quit [Quit: http://www.cnblogs.com/crazyhack] 01:58:20 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:59:00 gko [~gko@27.243.180.187] has joined #lisp 02:00:31 Is there an i18n'ed version of format? 02:00:51 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:54 cl-i18n might have something along those lines. 02:01:06 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 02:05:09 mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 02:06:00 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 02:06:39 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-065-013-204-170.sip.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:06:44 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:06:53 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:09:25 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.117.147] has joined #lisp 02:09:38 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.84.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:10:59 -!- pavelludiq is now known as pavelpenev 02:18:11 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-227-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:44 ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:27:05 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:57 ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:28:35 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:42 -!- gko [~gko@27.243.180.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:36:58 gko [~gko@27.247.85.100] has joined #lisp 02:37:46 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:38:17 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:23 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:39:07 nialo- [~nialo@64.134.26.168] has joined #lisp 02:41:44 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AEFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:44 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AE48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:50 teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has joined #lisp 02:47:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 02:57:17 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:58:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-041.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:08 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:02:36 am0c [~am0c@121.88.109.90] has joined #lisp 03:06:27 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.117.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:08:35 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:14 ar1and3rr [~ar1and3rr@97-118-178-120.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:16 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:16:40 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 03:20:57 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-161-120.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:22:50 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:31:22 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:24 -!- am0c [~am0c@121.88.109.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:31:41 petisnnake [~petisnnak@89.137.126.121] has joined #lisp 03:32:04 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:24 Hi, If I want to check if a given list has a 'mountain aspect' (meaning it has increasing and then decreasing elements), how should I go about it? any ideas? 03:32:32 I cant seem to find a good recursion model to do it 03:33:33 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:33:36 am0c [~am0c@121.88.109.221] has joined #lisp 03:34:39 Is it exact of fuzzy? 03:34:43 s/of/or 03:37:33 For exact: (defun mountainp (list) (not (member-if 'minusp (member-if 'plusp (mapcar '- list (cdr list))))) 03:37:49 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 03:38:09 -!- whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zsvsssasdxnclcpm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:10 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wxomxqmgidfjscjw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:39 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:02 Goosey124 [~Goose@cpe-72-178-49-126.elp.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:32 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.22] has joined #lisp 03:44:52 -!- ratxue [~chatzilla@host-89-241-166-147.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:45:24 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:12 ratxue [~chatzilla@host-89-241-166-147.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:12 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.117.147] has joined #lisp 03:51:17 -!- nialo- [~nialo@64.134.26.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:53:45 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgcnmuvopwwuxtkb] has joined #lisp 03:54:00 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 03:54:56 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.43.91] has joined #lisp 03:55:52 leo2007 [~leo@117.128.173.211] has joined #lisp 03:58:50 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-d9be669d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:59:29 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f735b32.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:05 whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sfjmqmtkpuvsqbjr] has joined #lisp 04:03:41 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:05 am0c_ [~am0c@121.88.109.90] has joined #lisp 04:07:49 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.7.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sfokfxoajadwbesf] has joined #lisp 04:09:48 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:10:09 -!- am0c [~am0c@121.88.109.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:10:11 Jasko [~tjasko@12.236.109.2] has joined #lisp 04:12:37 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:15:06 tritchey [~tritchey@12.236.109.2] has joined #lisp 04:16:03 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:19:48 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:20:59 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@121.88.109.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:23:33 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:25:22 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 04:25:22 mburke [~max@S0106000c41f2f3de.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:46 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:30:21 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:35:44 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:30 -!- petisnnake [~petisnnak@89.137.126.121] has quit [] 04:42:03 -!- mburke [~max@S0106000c41f2f3de.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 04:42:26 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:44:16 can loop make nested loops something like (loop for i in '(1 2 3) nested for j in '(4 5 6) collecting (list i j)) -> ((1 4) (1 5) (1 6) (2 4) (2 5) (2 6) (3 4) (3 5) (3 6)) 04:44:19 ? 04:45:35 (loop for i in '(1 2 3) nconc (loop for j in '(4 5 6) collect (list i j))) 04:46:22 so in one loop it can't... 04:46:28 But of course, you can write a macro that can. 04:47:32 See rloop in http://www.informatimago.com/develop/emacs/emacs/pjb-emacs.el 04:48:45 thanx 04:49:20 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:50:17 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 04:50:35 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:26 -!- teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:56:34 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 04:56:41 SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has joined #lisp 04:56:44 evening 05:01:42 Good evening 05:02:00 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 05:02:01 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 05:03:02 have you checkout tablets 05:04:37 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:25 ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:05:38 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8124B5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06:51 -!- rme [rme@323D5415.47C9A248.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:06:52 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.137.115] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:07:05 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-161-120.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:35 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.215.42] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:11:43 chenbing [~user@115.205.7.44] has joined #lisp 05:12:02 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:14:35 Is McCLIM available via quicklisp? 05:15:22 yes it is 05:15:42 but not fun with keyboards 05:17:16 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sfokfxoajadwbesf] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:17:53 What's the system name? 05:18:04 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:18:27 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.43.91] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:33 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 05:19:01 mcclim just 05:19:17 (ql:system-apropos "mcclim") will show you 05:19:34 Yeah, there's lots of them 05:19:35 ok there's a suffix of cvs version but..... 05:19:45 am0c [~am0c@123.228.81.95] has joined #lisp 05:19:48 Which one should I take? 05:19:52 just get mcclim 05:20:03 it's the master project 05:20:07 which pull in the others 05:20:10 Ah 05:20:23 you quickoad the other only when you want sub project only 05:20:45 but mcclim just will pull all others in 05:21:48 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-161-120.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:24:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:27:03 Man, they really need to update their darcs repo 05:27:25 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 05:30:40 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: all we are saying; is give peace a chance.] 05:30:41 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 05:30:45 am0c_ [~am0c@123.228.81.95] has joined #lisp 05:31:22 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:34 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.236.109.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:33:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@123.228.81.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:34:39 -!- ImTheBitch [Apples@ultra30.tptp.cc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:36:24 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:29 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 05:36:39 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-chgjyagscgawsybs] has joined #lisp 05:37:34 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:38:18 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:39:30 ASau [~user@95-24-150-243.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:47:21 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:49:56 -!- SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has left #lisp 05:50:52 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 05:52:33 -!- benny [~benny@i577A106C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 05:54:25 does anyone know how can i find which of my keyboard keys corresponds to hyper ? 05:54:33 i know meta is alt 05:54:38 and control is control 05:54:42 but hyper ? 05:54:49 hyper hyper? 05:55:30 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 05:55:36 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 05:56:20 homie: use xev and press each key. read ~/.Xmodmap 05:56:21 -!- mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 05:56:50 homie: xmodmap -pk|grep -i hyper 05:56:50 no no no, i mean isn't there some standard binding for it for the euro keyboards ? 05:56:56 oh ok 05:57:16 benny [~benny@i577A3824.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:57:19 I use my own keyboard map. So I can have the same on all my computers... 05:57:31 how do you do that ? 05:58:07 it gave me 207 0x0000 0xffed 05:58:08 I use the same map everywhere http://paste.lisp.org/display/123256 05:58:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-chgjyagscgawsybs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:58:16 tritchey [~tritchey@12.236.109.2] has joined #lisp 05:58:24 That grep gave me: 05:58:25 135 0xffee (Hyper_R) 0x0000 (NoSymbol) 0xffee (Hyper_R) 05:58:25 207 0x0000 (NoSymbol) 0xffed (Hyper_L) 0x0000 (NoSymbol) 0xffed (Hyper_L) 05:59:20 i seem to not have hyper-r only hyper-l 05:59:26 and still no clue where it is 06:00:08 The number on the left is the key code. 06:00:20 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:00:26 Use xev and press keys until you find it. 06:01:49 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@123.228.81.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:28 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 06:07:17 ok i don't have it 06:07:24 i have pressed all keys now 06:08:20 ctrl-l, ctrl-r, alt-l, iso-level3-shift, super-l are the only ones i have 06:08:46 alt-r is (alt-gr) iso-level3-shift on mine 06:09:06 i wouldn't need ctrl-r tho 06:09:20 so i could replace that one with hyper-r or so 06:09:23 homie: editing a .Xmodmap, you can map any keycode (eg. one you have a key for) to any keysym, 06:09:26 Yes. 06:16:52 Xmodmap yay 06:16:56 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tkuzuudpvxuedjzm] has joined #lisp 06:17:09 I just went with keysym in el so that the flag key is now a meta key 06:19:18 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:50 is a "for from" clause in a loop evaluated before a "for =" clause? 06:21:18 No. In order. 06:22:07 then acl's loop is buggy. 06:22:10 *sigh* 06:22:47 ah, no. different problem 06:23:05 is the by clause only evaluated once? 06:23:45 i.e. can i have a "for foo by x" where x is assigned in a preceding "for x =", making it change dynamically? 06:23:50 Probably. 06:23:59 I mean probably once. 06:24:07 for x = 0 then (+ x variable) 06:24:13 I'd think it would be evaled only once 06:24:24 yeah, but that means that below won't work 06:24:43 until (< x max) 06:24:55 ah screw it, loop is teh suck 06:24:56 :) 06:25:24 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@pool-71-246-112-82.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:00 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 06:26:05 the fact that there was "probably" and "i think" in your answers is the proof 06:26:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 06:28:03 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.236.109.2] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 06:28:29 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 06:28:48 hydo [~hydo@c-24-7-60-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@117.128.173.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:31:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:32:43 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 06:34:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:45 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:34 dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 06:36:35 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 06:38:19 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:41:14 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:43:18 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:45:37 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 06:46:30 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.14] has joined #lisp 06:48:33 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:49:02 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:52:44 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:13 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-24-7-60-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:55:08 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has left #lisp 06:55:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.255.66] has joined #lisp 06:55:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.255.66] has quit [Changing host] 06:55:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:55:36 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 06:57:06 robde [~robde@p57903854.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:06 -!- robde [~robde@p57903854.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-123.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:02:26 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.233] has joined #lisp 07:07:03 why sbcl's footprint is to large ? 07:07:18 what making it so big ? 07:09:48 anonus: what do you mean by "large" and "big"? 07:10:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-123.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:10 anonus: are you referring to its use of address space or the working set size? 07:10:22 working set size 07:10:47 anonus: what is "big" in that context, then? 07:11:04 if i clearly understand it around 36 mb, isn't it ? 07:11:46 anonus: yeah, that does not seem too big to me 07:12:48 but for example clisp is only 8 mb (i know that there a huge difference between sbcl and clisp) 07:12:58 anonus: it contains the compiler and the full language spec, that's why. if you want/need something smaller clisp or ecl may be options. 07:13:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:14:07 i don't need something smaller, i just interested why sbcl 4 times larger that clisp or ecl... 07:14:18 madnificent: clisp contains a compiler too. 07:14:30 anonus: ccl is about the same size as sbcl on my box (24 mb) 07:14:32 pjb: yeah i know, i was realizing that after i typed it 07:14:34 anonus: sbcl targets ix86 processors. clisp targets a lisp vm... 07:14:46 The problem is Intel. 07:15:36 anyone tried sbcl on ppc or mips ? 07:15:48 is it the same size ? 07:17:23 teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has joined #lisp 07:17:31 anonus: on my box, node (javascript jit compiler + runtime) is about 11MB. the common lisp library is much bigger than what node comes with, so i'm not surprised about the size 07:17:53 anonus: you may want to compare with other dynamic runtimes to get to know what you can expect. 07:18:06 -!- jaykub_ [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:24 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:40 ddp [~ddp@anon-158-35.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:49 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 07:19:51 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 07:21:45 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:23:01 *anonus* went to install qemu... 07:23:12 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-88.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:25:00 H4ns: i understand, it not to big. question was why it bigger than some other cl implementations (and i hope that i got answer) 07:25:43 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:25:59 anonus: it's basically O(n) like any other implementation... 07:27:12 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:27:58 turtool [~hi@ip72-201-171-74.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:29 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 07:29:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.233] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.90.1] 07:31:34 Hi. I'm relatively new to lisp and was wondering if someone could help me out 07:32:05 Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with . Instead, ask your real question and someone will answer if they can help. 07:32:05 07:32:36 pjb: so, out of frustration that the bots are not here, you're actually becoming one? \o/ 07:32:45 pjb, "the ultimate lisp machine". 07:32:53 ok. I am trying to create a function that takes a list (which contains atoms and other lists inside) and I want to just print each atom in the order in which it occus 07:33:05 (remove-if-not 'atom list) 07:33:25 turtool: should the lists be walked recursively? 07:33:46 any method. pjb, doesn't help. that just deletes all sublists 07:34:07 ex: ((a b) c d) => (a b c d) 07:34:08 seems like it is time for a new generation of robots, as the old ones have been abandoned 07:34:23 incf H4ns 07:34:37 turtool: who/what is teaching you lisp? 07:34:39 (alexandria:flatten list) 07:34:57 self learning mostly. books and reference online 07:35:06 turtool: now of course, the fun is in implementing flatten, not in fetching libraries... 07:35:46 well that helps tremendously, just knowing what it's called 07:35:47 thank you 07:36:15 turtool: the trick when implementing flatten is to keep it O(n) in time and space... 07:36:26 It's easy to go O(n^2) or worse. 07:36:31 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.35] has joined #lisp 07:38:17 is there a ipso facto common lisp reference place? 07:38:32 The Hyperspec. 07:38:40 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 07:38:52 *madnificent* would've done the printing directly with a recursive function, #'consp and #'mapcar 07:38:54 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:38:54 turtool: but you'll be better served by the references on http://cliki.net 07:39:15 http://i.imgur.com/mV5FD.jpg 07:39:15 madnificent: yes, but printing is cheating (not functional). 07:39:49 pjb: it may be cheating, but it was what was actually asked :) 07:40:08 gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has joined #lisp 07:40:20 plus we all know CL is not ideal for functional programming 07:40:20 madnificent: perhaps it was asked to print it on paper? Perhaps we should issue postscript? 07:40:56 turtool: So, what did you mean by "I want to just print each atom in the order in which it occurs"? 07:41:04 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41:20 pjb: you answered by saying flatten 07:41:33 fe[nl]ix: ping 07:41:36 that was what i wanted, but didnt know the term 07:41:47 turtool: flatten is a function that returns a list of all the atoms found in the tree. It doesn't print anything. But you asked to print something!? 07:42:07 no. just returning a new list of just the flat list is what i meant 07:42:24 Quadrescence: is the the one someone's gonna get hitten by next time ?! 07:42:25 lol 07:42:27 Ok. So my telepathic debugging abilities were right. 07:42:32 yes 07:42:37 Guthur: you summoned me ? 07:43:30 pjb wins 07:43:32 fe[nl]ix: with iolib, how does one pass flags to receive-from 07:44:32 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.43.91] has joined #lisp 07:45:15 fe[nl]ix: the compute-flags func is only called on args 07:45:31 :wait-all t 07:45:31 fe[nl]ix: but I can't pass args if I use :buffer etc 07:45:34 ah 07:46:14 the :flags kwarg was throwing me some what 07:48:37 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:48:59 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 07:49:04 -!- ar1and3rr [~ar1and3rr@97-118-178-120.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-135-57.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:06 good morning 07:53:35 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:07 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 07:54:18 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 07:55:38 good morning mvilleneuve 07:55:50 -!- turtool [~hi@ip72-201-171-74.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #lisp 07:57:15 -!- DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU 07:59:05 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:02 cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 08:01:49 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:02:50 ysph [~user@68-186-193-128.dhcp.unas.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:04:35 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-pzzjcxvbzudynowj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:04:58 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-exodczlrbhefrlfi] has joined #lisp 08:05:10 -!- jrockway_ [jrockway@itchy.jrock.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:05:16 To whoever writes/maintains the cffi manual: thanks. It's informative and well written, with great examples. 08:06:25 jrockway [jrockway@itchy.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 08:08:35 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:47 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:29 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:11:01 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:13 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 08:12:47 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:05 yangzhiwei [~yang@180.117.107.67] has joined #lisp 08:13:38 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:46 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:22:07 *anonus* gently touches flip215 08:22:09 -!- gko [~gko@27.247.85.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:22:18 anonus: stay away, I'm married! 08:22:21 have another question about slimv 08:22:27 %) 08:22:38 shoot 08:22:44 but not me, the messenger ... 08:22:46 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-exndafwjhuhliwhr] has joined #lisp 08:22:52 same situation 08:23:04 before i start REPL all ok 08:23:58 but when i started it (for example) let variables defenition indented by one space more to the right 08:24:37 moment, i'll try to show it 08:24:40 well, slimv takes information about macros and special forms from the running lisp (via swank, again) 08:24:52 so the results _without_ being connected are just a first-order approximation 08:25:01 just take the result when connected as "ok" ;) 08:25:43 -!- whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sfjmqmtkpuvsqbjr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:44 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgcnmuvopwwuxtkb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:26:40 gko [~gko@27.240.147.205] has joined #lisp 08:27:10 http://sprunge.us/RUgE?cl 08:27:25 is it ok? 08:28:27 (i don't think so) 08:29:53 flip215: ? 08:29:57 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:30:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:30:28 anonus: do you have noexpandtab set, perhaps? 08:30:36 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:31:02 works for me, again ... 08:31:19 nope, "set expandtab" in .vimrc 08:31:55 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:32:41 go to the (let, and press =%, please 08:33:27 it indents like second one (with REPL) 08:35:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:35:23 :echo SlimvIndent(), please? 08:36:00 7 :( 08:36:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:36:13 maybe i have wrong swank ? 08:36:43 without REPL it shows 6 08:37:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.192.100] has joined #lisp 08:37:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.192.100] has quit [Changing host] 08:37:33 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:41:45 -!- teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:42:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-178-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:27 anonus: please tell Tamás, he seems to be available via email just now 08:43:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:21 I guess he will tell you to do ":set verbose verbosefile=/tmp/vim.log" ":echo SlimvIndent(...)" and send that file to him 08:44:23 ok 08:45:22 i think i'll try an mercurial version before, maybe it fixed it already... 08:45:58 yes, I'm running hg already ... but that's because I'm regularly sending patches, and this way it's easier for both of us 08:46:39 oww 08:46:40 also 08:46:52 whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxvkgbtwayparack] has joined #lisp 08:47:01 i cut out all clojure* files inside slimv distribution 08:47:43 can this relate to this bug? %) 08:49:44 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.117.181] has joined #lisp 08:51:03 flip215: it fixed in hg version, thanks 08:52:11 and fuzzy completion working :3 08:52:24 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:54:59 fine! 08:55:33 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:55:45 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:56 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:56:15 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129143104.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 08:57:08 Kryztof [~user@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:02:45 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:02:55 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:51 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:17 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pizzwddkylvotsvj] has joined #lisp 09:09:16 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:10:14 good morning everyone 09:12:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:13:08 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:19:26 -!- yangzhiwei [~yang@180.117.107.67] has left #lisp 09:21:46 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 09:21:50 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:22:50 Neronus: have you figured out a way to pull back frames which you accidentally closed? or the windows within those frames? 09:30:08 -!- ratxue [~chatzilla@host-89-241-166-147.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:31:15 about iterate: it is possible to create new drivers (which is awesome), but it seems i can't create something that will allow me to write (for my-var primes from 0 below 100) as there needs to be another identifier after the symbol primes (for the driver). is there a common way to work around this? 09:31:37 anonus: I've asked Tamás about a new release 09:33:09 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:33:10 madnificent: perhaps I don't understand you, but how about using &rest et.al. in the defmacro-driver? 09:34:01 flip215: is that allowed? i've just written my first defmacro-driver so it's all fairly new to me (more examples would be handy for me personally) 09:34:13 flip215: and what he said? 09:35:08 flip215: why can't i just drop the variable in the template? 09:35:10 madnificent: I've already used &optional ... don't see why you shouldn't be able to use &rest 09:35:26 madnificent: Nope, no Idea. I bet I could figure out a way using xlib, but that's too much work 09:35:29 don't know ... perhaps it's better with reiterate? 09:35:40 anonus: don't know yet, but now you're using hg anyway ... ;) 09:36:40 flip215: could you try to write the header of the defmacro-clause, it errors out on me here, so i must be trying all sorts of dumb things. the error i keep getting is DEFCLAUSE: required part of template (stuff be here) is of odd length. 09:36:48 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 09:36:53 morning 09:37:21 Neronus: or create a kill ring for frames which have been killed. i guess there is something for unmanaged windows though. haven't come across it yet. 09:37:24 hello splittist 09:39:17 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-2-188.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:39:29 *madnificent* finds the syntax of defmacro-clause somewhat odd. would've used keywords to distinguish fixed points from variables in the template. 09:42:15 madnificent: how about (iterate:defmacro-clause (FOR var PRIMES upper-limit &optional from) ? 09:42:21 seems to be a bit of limitation ... 09:42:36 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:01 perhaps reiterate is better ... 09:45:13 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:46:03 -!- gko [~gko@27.240.147.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:46:18 guajalote [Usuario@189.214.158.32.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 09:46:21 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 09:46:47 gko [~gko@27.240.47.93] has joined #lisp 09:49:20 flip215: reiterate? 09:49:35 http://dwim.hu/darcs/hu.dwim.reiterate/ 09:49:47 flip215: i find it to be an odd limitation because the variable is obligatory. if it were a keyword i guess i'd find it to make sense 09:49:51 ah dwim stuff 09:50:27 anyone else got spam from guajalote? 09:50:30 yes 09:50:49 and yes (strange limitation, spam) 09:50:50 ;) 09:51:37 the documentation of of reiterate seems to be a tad limited 09:55:45 kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:57:11 that's because it's just a reimplementation of iterate - source-compatible 09:57:40 rudi_ [~rudi@1x-193-157-201-4.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:57:58 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 09:58:02 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.43.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:59:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:00:03 hello lispers 10:01:48 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.233] has joined #lisp 10:04:14 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 10:04:37 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.43.91] has joined #lisp 10:04:37 lo kiuma 10:04:58 *homie* makes the channel greeter bot! 10:05:04 lol 10:05:44 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.22] has quit [Quit: ...] 10:06:09 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.22] has joined #lisp 10:06:50 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 10:07:47 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:08:00 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.2.22] has quit [Client Quit] 10:08:48 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:09:44 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:12:46 lo 10:14:24 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:18:17 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:01 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:19:06 flip215: I'm not aiming to make reiterate 100% iterate compatible... I may provide a package though that defines clauses at 100% iterate compatible, but that's not my primary goal 10:19:40 madnificent: I don't believe in documentation when it comes to programmer libraries. but I do believe in tests, many of them covering interesting corner cases 10:22:06 attila_lendvai: the whole _reason_ for reiterate is to have a few differences, after all ;) 10:23:56 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 10:26:18 yeah, the primary difference is to have a proper code walker that doesn't fail in corner cases and properly updates the environment, so that non-trivial macros inside reiterate don't break 10:26:33 -!- guajalote [Usuario@189.214.158.32.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [K-Lined] 10:28:53 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 10:31:08 how about a walker-less iteration package, for a change? :) 10:31:28 *cmm* doesn't really trust code-walkers, proper or not 10:33:43 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:34:31 heh 10:36:36 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 10:37:50 yangzhiwei [~yang@180.117.107.67] has joined #lisp 10:38:45 cmm: if you show me one that passes the tests in reiterate, then I'll rewrite it not to use a code walker 10:39:06 s/one/a way/ 10:42:24 dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:42:30 mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 10:42:32 -!- dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Changing host] 10:42:32 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 10:42:33 hello. how come this works: (in-package :package) *var* but this doesn't: (let ((*package* (find-package :package))) *var*) 10:43:21 eheh 10:44:21 mlkith: compile-time vs. run-time? 10:44:56 mlkith: Because the binding of *package* comes at evaluation-time, while the package to which the symbol *var* belongs is determined at readtime 10:47:10 mlkith: and now you know the purpose of sbcl's reader extension, described at http://sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Reader-Extensions 10:48:10 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:11 mlkith: You can demonstrate the problem using (let ((*package* ...)) (symbol-package '*var*)) and (in-package :package) (symbol-package *var*) 10:48:26 let last *var* misses a quote 10:48:51 put another way: in your second form, by the time that the in-package form would start being evaluated, *var* has already been read (and produced a read error) 10:50:11 yes I got it, thanks. odd I could swear I used (let ((*package* .. )) before for something useful 10:52:42 rmathews [~roshan@59.92.2.66] has joined #lisp 10:54:54 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 10:56:22 mlkith: it will be useful, if the code that is in the dynamic scope of that LET does READing/INTERNing; the form itself will not benefit from the binding, of course. 10:57:15 right that's what I used it for 10:58:07 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:58:36 (let ((*package* ..)) (intern "SYMBOL")) 11:00:46 -!- echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:11 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 11:05:38 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A4C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:37 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:46 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:08:14 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p50829E8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:09:45 mlkith, note that you can also do (intern string package) 11:10:49 attila_lendvai: guess we have a different opinion there. generally the code itself doesn't show the reasoning behind certain designs, it also doesn't show the intended use. 11:12:41 madnificent: IMO, then spend the time, you would spend on docs, on the code instead, to better/clearer encode the design and on tests that show intended use. 11:12:53 *deepfire* is furious about how unnecessarily hard it is to change default USB stlck permissions in ubuntu.. several hours spent on udev configuration and counting.. 11:12:58 pnq [~nick@ACA386F0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:10 madnificent: I don't oppose a page or two of bird's eye view, but anything more should be spent on the code 11:13:38 -!- kanru` [~user@218-167-101-30.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:13:53 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:14:01 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 11:15:49 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 11:16:24 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:19:03 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:21:06 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:08 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:22:38 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-017.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:22:44 -!- gko [~gko@27.240.47.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:23:00 how can I get match all whitespace except new line with cl-ppcre sexp syntax? 11:23:17 s/get// 11:23:36 Do you think that a lisp program for automatically downloading all images from InterfaceLift would be worth a blog post? 11:24:12 Neronus: yes 11:24:18 hi 11:24:47 and a program to solve electrical circuits? 11:25:11 Xach: thanks 11:25:12 osa1 do you know how to do it with regular expressions? if yes just do (cl-ppcre:parse-string "...") 11:26:20 Posterdati: no 11:26:26 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.43.91] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:26:27 why not? 11:26:32 Posterdati: I've seen your code. 11:27:01 It is bad, but not in a simple way that offers easy lessons. It is complex and terrible. 11:27:30 but it is actually work 11:27:50 The worst kind of bad code. 11:30:32 robde [~robde@wlan-95-115.uni-koblenz.de] has joined #lisp 11:33:13 Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:44 That's the kind of attitude that gives people little scars inside. I simply love it. 11:34:47 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.2.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:35:45 -!- SpitfireWP [spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:35:45 -!- emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:36:25 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:31 How do you characterise it? Helpful criticism? 11:36:46 *splittist* reads "little cars inside", is momentarily confused... 11:36:49 -!- Frozenlock [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:36:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:37:16 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 11:37:21 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:53 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:25 -!- rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:57 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:57 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:57 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:39:08 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:12 deepfire: no criticisms at all 11:39:46 msponge_ [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 11:39:48 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:39:49 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Client Quit] 11:39:50 -!- msponge_ is now known as msponge 11:39:56 SpitfireWP [spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 11:39:57 rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:05 emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has joined #lisp 11:40:12 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 11:41:00 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:05 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 11:41:06 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 11:41:27 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:42 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db57cb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:45 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:19 deepfire: shut up! 11:46:17 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 11:48:17 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 11:49:40 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:50:12 kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 11:50:22 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 11:50:27 is there a SLIME function that adds remaining closing parenthesis? 11:50:38 s/remaining/required 11:50:54 mlkith: C- 11:51:05 mlkith: C-] i mean 11:51:35 that is bound to abort-recursive-edit in here 11:51:55 what's the actual name? 11:52:11 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-135-57.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:52:29 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA386F0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:52:33 mlkith: can't look up the functions name right now, don't have a slime running at the moment 11:54:00 deepfire: oh forgive me, it was a joke! 11:54:06 pnq [~nick@ACA386F0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:11 it is slime-close-all-parens-in-sexp 11:54:19 deepfire: are you interested in solving electrical circuits? 11:55:43 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tkuzuudpvxuedjzm] has left #lisp 11:56:11 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:20 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:56:45 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db57cb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 11:57:04 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:53 mlkith: it was C-c C-] , called slime-close-all-parens-in-sexp 11:58:10 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 12:01:36 gensym, not bound in my Slime but thanks for the command name. 12:02:32 Wait, it's bound in lisp-mode but not in Slime REPL. 12:04:38 -!- gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:24 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-eeheuloqjosoqtth] has joined #lisp 12:14:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA386F0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:17:20 pnq [~nick@ACA386F0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:18:02 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:41 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:19:40 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:20:02 -!- mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 12:20:30 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 12:22:56 gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has joined #lisp 12:24:36 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:24:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:25:37 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-43.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:26:16 mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 12:26:25 -!- robde [~robde@wlan-95-115.uni-koblenz.de] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 12:28:41 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:29 -!- ysph [~user@68-186-193-128.dhcp.unas.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:32:25 rmathews [~roshan@59.92.41.134] has joined #lisp 12:32:47 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 12:33:08 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Client Quit] 12:34:34 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:49 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 12:35:43 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:01 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890396.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:36:05 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:37:06 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 12:37:08 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:38:53 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.155.140] has joined #lisp 12:39:09 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:43:38 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:45:41 -!- mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:47:35 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 12:47:50 icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.93.198.23] has joined #lisp 12:49:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:22 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:51:01 pjb: hi! 12:52:14 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:42 msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 12:54:13 Posterdati, no, not quite 12:55:33 -!- Guest99662 [~emanuele@avalon.bagnaschi.eu] has quit [Quit: ""] 12:55:46 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 12:57:50 deepfire: my I show you my google code page? 12:59:36 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:04:45 nialo- [~nialo@64.134.26.155] has joined #lisp 13:04:47 Posterdati, sure 13:05:09 deepfire: http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 13:05:22 I wouldn't be able to spend much time on it, though. 13:06:01 project is far away to be finished, I need to implement electrical machines models 13:08:26 robde [~robde@wlan-93-125.uni-koblenz.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:43 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:10:33 Posterdati, a note: the "Write a complete netlist in a file." 13:11:05 docstring for a function with the signature write-netlist (file-name netlist) .. adds quite little. 13:11:56 You have complicated functions like UPDATE, which would be much better served with a docstring. 13:12:41 The instinct should probably be "if I can easily think of a specific docstring for this function, then it's probably not worth it." 13:13:08 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:15 It's not an universal rule, but I think it's somewhat useful. 13:13:24 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:18 -!- robde [~robde@wlan-93-125.uni-koblenz.de] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 13:15:49 Also, you probably mistake yourself into thinking that the jargon usage like "create know factor matrix" and "create the Sv matrix for your joy 13:16:19 would illuminate the reader much. 13:17:20 am0c_ [~am0c@203.226.203.12] has joined #lisp 13:17:40 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:15 deepfire: obviously not 13:18:17 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:18:31 deepfire: there's nothing to know 13:19:10 Alright, I think I need to do work over here.. : -) 13:19:19 where? 13:19:49 Well, at my workplace. Anyway, good luck with your project. 13:20:04 deepfire: tx, good work 13:20:04 I think it's definitely worth blogging about. 13:20:21 thanks for your appreciations 13:20:32 s0ckpuppet [~s0ck@unaffiliated/s0ckpuppet] has joined #lisp 13:21:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-017.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:21:30 AFAIK the industrial-level HW simulators use hundreds of parameters per component (diode, transistor etc.), so you have a way to go : -) 13:21:31 -!- s0ckpuppet [~s0ck@unaffiliated/s0ckpuppet] has left #lisp 13:24:47 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:25:36 mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.114] has joined #lisp 13:26:40 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 13:27:15 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890396.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:53 deepfire: the program is configurable, models could be provided in the form of Lisp sources 13:29:54 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:06 deepfire: the program could be improved too, I'm a newbie in the Lisp world... So the source may be ugly to see... 13:31:30 rme [~rme@50.43.137.115] has joined #lisp 13:31:53 mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 13:33:17 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:37:05 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:44:00 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:19 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-2-188.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:48:34 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-161-120.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:46 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 13:49:13 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:33 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:45 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@203.226.203.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:45 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:54:14 how can I load project I created with quickproject? 13:54:54 osa1: (asdf:load-system "your-project") or (ql:quickload "your-project") 13:55:22 Xach: ql:quickload doesn't work 13:55:29 should I insert project path? 13:56:51 yeah, same for asdf:load-system 13:57:30 osa1: You have to either put the project somewhere that asdf or quicklisp know about, or add to the list of paths they know about. 13:57:46 osa1: the easiest thing is to put the project in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ - you can symlink if you like 13:58:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:43 Xach: strange, I've symlinked the project to quicklisp/local-project but nothing changed, should I do something to system-index.txt ? 14:00:18 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:00:25 osa1: It should be automatically updated. If it isn't, you can force an update with (ql:register-local-projects) 14:01:40 _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.63.80] has joined #lisp 14:01:44 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:01:55 Xach: I called (ql:register-local-projects) but system-index.txt is still empty. btw, pushing asdf:*central-registery* worked, but I have to push everytime I restart SBCL 14:02:15 osa1: Odd. 14:02:54 osa1: does (directory "~/quicklisp/local-projects/**/*.asd") return anything? 14:03:55 aren't you suppose to push it in your .sbclrc file? that's what I did 14:04:09 Xach: NIL. but I have a symlink from local-projects, I can go to project folder with cd ~/quicklisp/local-projects/project/ 14:04:22 osa1: What version of SBCL are you using? 14:04:28 mlkith: You can. That's a hassle. 14:04:30 Xach: I don't know, how can I learn? 14:04:39 osa1: evaluate (cl:lisp-implementation-version) 14:05:02 Xach: 1.0.53 14:06:58 osa1: The behavior recently changed, but I thought it was less recent than 1.0.53. 14:07:06 mlkith: what line should I add to .sbclrc? 14:07:27 *Xach* checks his mail archive of the discussion 14:08:01 I have (push asdf:*central-registry*) in .sbclr 14:09:23 osa1: Ah, ok, it was changed in 1.0.54 14:09:44 osa1: From NEWS: "* bug fix: (DIRECTORY "foo/*/*.*") did not follow symlinks in foo/ thatresolved to directories." 14:10:26 Xach: wow, thanks. I'm updating SBCL then 14:10:28 *jjkola_work* finds '#:~a-some-symbol-name very useful to make it easy to get code work with different read-table-cases when symbol name munging is needed 14:10:48 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:39 diddy [diddy@41.92.156.231] has joined #lisp 14:12:16 *jjkola_work* fixing babel to work with :invert readtable case... 14:14:34 ned [~root@li129-64.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:39 how is a slot any diferent from a property in C#? 14:15:09 hello 14:15:10 *Xach* would like to answer, but does not know C# 14:15:13 What's the preferred way to include things into SBCLs core on a debian installation? I'd like to put some (ql:quickload) lines into a config file and have them apply automatically on a dist-upgrade 14:16:22 what is # symbol before keywords for? 14:17:05 ned: not sure, but can't slots be masked by getter and setter functions in C#. if they are the most basic form of variable in C# then they are the same, aside from the fact that lisp slots can't be protected so they can only be used from within the class (which has no meaning in a lisp-context afaict) 14:17:24 madnificent: ahh okay thanks 14:17:35 osa1: "#:" is the syntax for an (possibly apparently) uninterned symbol. 14:17:46 ned slot is a member variable equivalent. property equivalent would be accessor (method) 14:17:52 osa1: it's not simply a keyword with a #, the two characters have meaning taken together. 14:17:55 tak0_n [~tak0_n@41.102.202.31] has joined #lisp 14:18:49 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:03 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:20:38 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-161-120.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:20:59 ned: feel free to ask if lisp slots have a particular feature and how we survive without the feature if we wouldn't have it. lisp has some stuff that C# doesn't have. that is to say, the MOP allows metaprogramming that's infeasible in C# 14:21:17 -!- diddy [diddy@41.92.156.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:22:15 which keyword should I use in defpcakage to use symbols from packages but with package's prefix? 14:22:41 osa1: You don't need to do anything special in depackage if you use the package prefix on the symbols. 14:23:03 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:16 diddy [diddy@41.92.156.231] has joined #lisp 14:24:01 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-161-120.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:56 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.93.198.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:28:43 ned (defclass person () ((name :accessor name :initarg :name))) (name (make-instance 'person :name "ned")) => "ned" 14:28:57 :accessor name part creates defmethod that accepts object of person type for you 14:29:52 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 14:30:45 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:30 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:27 flip215: hi 14:33:38 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 14:33:42 How do you guys handle customizations to libraries? For example, I'm modifying and extending some code in CL-PDF. Most of it needs to be in the cl-pdf package. 14:33:44 Posterdati: poke eye, stick? 14:33:51 I don't consider it a 'patch' per se. 14:34:02 But it's also not part of a package I've written. 14:34:16 flip215: why? 14:34:18 So how do you organize and package those changes in a logical way? 14:34:22 flip215: didn't you sleep? 14:34:48 oh yes, I did. I vaguely remember, I think it was ~1983 or something like that. 14:34:55 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 14:34:58 sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:20 jmckitrick: You could put it in a separate system that :depends-on cl-pdf. 14:35:32 is there something like a slime-eval-form-at ? which would evaluate form cursor is currently on 14:35:35 flip215: (sys 64738= 14:35:37 flip215: (sys 64738) 14:35:54 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:36:25 awww, that's getting old ... 14:39:06 Xach: So basically, a new project that depends on cl-pdf and is depended on by my project, right? 14:39:11 Yeah, that would work. 14:39:39 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:54 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:41:09 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: +++ATH0] 14:41:10 Xach: some weeks ago you mentioned some subtlety you learned regarding shadowing. 14:41:29 Did you ever document or explain what you meant? It was some kind of a-ha moment. ;-) 14:41:56 Also, how difficult is it to import a font like, say, Cambria, into a format cl-pdf understands? 14:42:34 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 jmckitrick: i would like to write all about it 14:43:46 -!- diddy [diddy@41.92.156.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:37 I "solved" my issue, see http://paste.lisp.org/display/127111 in case that's interesting for other SBCL users, too 14:46:03 jmckitrick: I feel like I've gone from vague (sometimes incorrect) ideas to concrete and full understanding of all aspects of operations on packages 14:46:10 jmckitrick: And it didn't take that much code or work! 14:46:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:47:08 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has joined #lisp 14:47:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:50:06 mlkith: and in a broader sense, are slots thes ame in other languages (i think smalltalk has them too right?) 14:51:02 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-43.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 14:51:44 Xach: What was it that was so illuminating? Something you said about shadowing that was very subtle. 14:51:48 ned: slots are the same as in other languages in the sense that they're part of objects and contain data. 14:52:09 I'm working hard myself to break through from basic CL understanding to the level where CL really shines. 14:53:52 jmckitrick: Well, I didn't fully realize that cl:shadow takes a *string* and that cl:shadowing-import takes a *symbol*, for example, because I was too used to using designators and didn't realize when one was a designator and another was not. 14:54:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:54:21 I thought shadowing-import was really just shadow followed by import, but it does a lot more work than that and carefully avoids potential conflict. 14:55:12 So when does the string-vs-designator subtlety become an issue? 14:55:42 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:56:23 ned: you could say that in CL accessors are more important than slots - if you change the class layout existing code continues to work because no one ever directly accessed a slot 14:56:59 i.e., there's no difference between a reader method that looks up a slot value and a "reader" method that calculates it from something else 14:59:48 jmckitrick: When writing a symbol I thought shadow had something to do with the identity of the symbol rather than just the name. 15:00:00 rudi: C# has similar support 15:00:04 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.123] has joined #lisp 15:00:12 jmckitrick: My thinking was fuzzy and uncertain on the topic 15:00:24 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:29 rudi: it's actually quite nice in that respect. though C# doesn't have a nice understanding of lazy evaluation or unbound slots. 15:01:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.123] has quit [Client Quit] 15:01:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:02:37 madnificent: excuse my ignorance, but how can C# simulate a 'reader method'-esque concept 15:02:52 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:07 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 15:03:33 ned: getter methods are the equivalent of reader methods 15:03:57 AHA ok that makes loads more sense 15:05:26 sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:05 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:22 robde [~robde@wlan-95-134.uni-koblenz.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:31 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:31 ned: and C# has ok support to define those methods. also, wasn't there something in C# that allows you to make it make a method call when you write foo.bar = baz; i'm not sure at all, i've never actually have to write C# 15:09:10 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.117.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:10:26 good thing this channel is about lisp, because I'm not interested in C$ 15:10:31 oops, C# 15:11:27 sykopomp: no, you use PHP, you filthy filthy filthy... piece of filth or something 15:12:00 Night-hacks [~amir@95.38.52.65] has joined #lisp 15:12:25 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:53 is it correct that lisp numerical calculation is slow because of calculating in arbitrary-precision way ? 15:13:02 Night-hacks: no. 15:13:03 no? 15:13:25 madnificent: Actually, I do python and erlang these days :S 15:13:38 I haven't touched PHP in like two years? 15:13:42 Night-hacks: you have to be more specific to make statements about performance 15:14:15 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:07 Xach: i read in an article that lisp numerical calculation is slower because of it's logic beyond numbers, but cant remember the article well . 15:15:18 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:36 Night-hacks: you may safely ignore it 15:15:53 i think you may have to use different function in some cases (e.g., for integer division), but otherwise that's very wrong 15:16:18 zmv [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has joined #lisp 15:16:19 Night-hacks: and there are articles showing how lisp is actually faster than C in some cases 15:18:02 jdz: yeah, but i meant just for numerical calculation. 15:18:10 Night-hacks: yeah, that's what i meant, also. 15:18:43 jdz: any refrence for checking ? 15:18:47 The playing field is easier there. When it comes to treating a blob of memory as a struct or maybe as a vector depending on how you squint, C is hard to beat. 15:19:18 *Xach* bookmarks pkhuong's bitvector bashing paste 15:19:23 Xach: except in the presence of pointers 15:19:37 Night-hacks: Lisp has arbitrary-length integers but sbcl can generate C-like machine code for modular arithmetic, e.g. for cryptographic algorithms using 32-bit values 15:20:42 Night-hacks: Here's one (pdf) http://www.iaeng.org/IJCS/issues_v32/issue_4/IJCS_32_4_19.pdf 15:21:39 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:57 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:23:05 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 15:23:16 thanks splittist, that's a nice link. 15:23:54 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:23:55 except it suffers the usual problem of not having date on it... 15:24:11 -!- tak0_n [~tak0_n@41.102.202.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:18 I would guess ca. 2006 15:24:19 -!- ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:36 splittist: yeah, but the problem does not go away by guessing :) 15:24:39 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 15:24:57 yeah it's 2006 as i checked in google scholar. 15:25:23 jdz: The bottom of the first page has a date on it! 15:26:33 http://dblp.uni-trier.de/rec/bibtex/conf/imecs/Verna06 has the bibtex entry, if anyone cares about these things 15:26:41 Xach: ouch. (i actually scrolled to the bottom, but my brain filtered out the bold text; i only read the footnote; the brain is an amazing thing!) 15:26:44 Oh, Xach, you and your reading comprehension! 15:27:00 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA386F0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:27:10 It is my secret weapon 15:28:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@12.236.109.2] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:29:12 Night-hacks: also, i'd rather have bignums and slower computation than faster computation and no bignums. 15:31:34 jdz: i think mixing the both world is the best approach. 15:32:17 Night-hacks: yes, and it is easy in Common Lisp, but pretty painful for some other languages. 15:33:58 jdz: what's the difference ? you should change the implemenation as in other langs. or im not right. 15:34:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:27 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 15:34:45 Night-hacks: what implementation? of + function (which is not a function, but an "operator" in many other languages)? and not use numbers, but instances of classes instead? 15:34:46 Night-hacks: http://random-state.net/log/3530433886.html <-- also possibly relevant realistic assessment of sbcl's recent/current performance and also a bit of insight into how things work 15:35:20 As anecdotal evidence, I have a semi-finished CRF decoder which performs more or less comparably to a C decoder (which has handwritten SSE assembler for vector ops), using not too much tuning and reasonably idiomatic CL 15:35:24 Night-hacks: in Common Lisp one does not have to change anything at all. 15:35:45 how can we have something like this: (equal (list 2 3) (list 3 2)) giving T, if you know what I mean, irrespective of the sequence of occurrence of the numbers, the list contains same numbers 15:36:30 francogrex: sort first? use a set data structure? 15:37:01 jdz: i mean what would you do to add arbitrary percision in Common Lisp ? ( suppose it doesn't support's it) 15:37:09 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120111092507]] 15:37:15 <_3b> lists are the 'set' data structure in list, see SET-DIFFERENCE for example 15:37:19 <_3b> *in lisp 15:37:32 Night-hacks: add it to the implementation; the user code does not have to change. 15:37:48 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 15:37:49 _3b: lists aren't optimal for large set computations 15:37:59 jdz: that's what i mean, so it's like adding this feature in other langs 15:38:03 Night-hacks: and in the implementation, the definition of functions operating on numbers would be changed. 15:38:26 there's also pkhuong's fft being comparable to djbfft 15:38:33 <_3b> oGMo: true, but that is a different issue :) 15:38:59 _3b: ;) 15:39:12 Night-hacks: sure, what's your point? 15:39:12 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 15:39:22 Night-hacks: that Common Lisp has this feature, and C doesn't? 15:40:33 jdz: no just because you said it's pain in other langs, i thought may be common lisp handles it in other way. 15:40:57 Xach: ping 15:40:58 bignums are part of common lisp standard 15:41:02 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 15:41:18 jjkola_work: hi 15:41:44 jdz: i'm not Lisp guru ;). that's why i ask 15:41:47 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:57 Night-hacks: my point was that CL has it, but to have it many other languages, one only can do it in libraries; and the libraries will make it not feel "native" to the language. 15:42:27 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-201-4.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:42:28 Xach: is it feature of quicklisp or asdf that if I specify :verbose t to quickload the loading fails if a warning is issued while compiling? 15:42:55 Night-hacks: for instance in Java and C++, one would have to have to use a "bignum" class, even though one could overload the mathematic operators. 15:42:58 jjkola_work: that is how ASDF on SBCL operates normally. I don't think :verbose makes a difference. 15:42:58 without :verbose t the code loads fine 15:43:08 jjkola_work: that would be quite a surprise to me if so. 15:43:15 Night-hacks: so, instead of 2 + 2 you'd have Bignum(2) + Bignum(2) 15:43:32 Night-hacks in CL integer doesn't overflow, it automatically promotes to bignum. also dividing two integers creates a rational number. meaning there are no rounding errors 15:43:35 Xach: well, that's what I experienced just a moment ago... 15:43:47 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.123] has joined #lisp 15:43:57 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:44:09 Night-hacks: or in C, bignum_plus(make_bignum(2), make_bignum(2)) 15:44:27 jdz,mlkith: : but it can be a feature i think. suppose you never want your calculations pass the Machine limits. 15:44:30 mlkith however, in tight loops, can explicitly use dumb overflowing integers like most other languages do, while keeping it safe in the rest of the code 15:44:38 -!- nialo- [~nialo@64.134.26.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:40 jjkola_work: if it's a compilation full warning, and the second time you do it (without :verbose) the file is already compiled, then you would observe different htings 15:44:50 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-161-120.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:45:09 Night-hacks: we already discussed that case. now we're discussing the case where we want the bignums (which for me is *always*). 15:45:53 jdz: not agree, suppose in embedded devices, or mission critical systems. 15:45:57 Night-hacks: have a read of http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/papers/els2009/unportable.pdf for more discussion about your ability to tell your implementation about your intent 15:46:04 Night-hacks: we already discussed that. 15:46:31 Night-hacks: and you've been given a pointer to a paper showing that you can get performance similar to C in those cases. what else do you want? 15:47:04 Kryztof: just to be sure I did it again with created fasls deleted (and without :verbose t) and babel loaded fine 15:47:17 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:47:29 jdz: actually i'm convienced. 15:47:37 jdz: isn't "mission-critical" enough of a tell? 15:47:37 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:47 hah 15:47:55 I don't think that's gavino 15:47:58 Just gavino-esque 15:48:26 jjkola_work: There could be a bug in Quicklisp, then. There's certainly no desire on my part to make the behavior different between :verbose t and :verbose nil, except for the volume of output. 15:48:27 -!- gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:43 cmm: good point. 15:48:59 Kryztof: and then again deleted the files again and run with :verbose t and it failed 15:49:17 interesting 15:49:40 slime is reporting asdf:compile-error 15:50:10 Night-hacks: in Common Lisp (* 3 (/ 1 3)) is always 1 (integer); i would never want it to be anything different, especially in any "mission critical" systems. 15:52:39 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.123] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:52:40 Xach, Kryztof: took me some time to realize that the verbose flag was the problem as I was finding :invert readtable case problems so I thought it related to that somehow 15:54:03 by the way, I got babel to load correctly with :invert readtable case (there was some style warnings and warnings but as far as I can see those are unrelated to readtable case problems) 15:54:36 does emacs or slime have a command to comment out selected region? 15:55:13 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.123] has joined #lisp 15:55:21 astonishingly, it is called "comment-region" 15:55:27 osa1: you can bind comment-or-uncomment-region 15:56:20 (doing C-h a comment RET would have provided a list of commands plausibly connected to comments) 15:56:26 osa1, Kryztof: there's also comment-dwim 15:57:51 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:51 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:58:30 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.155.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:58:56 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:04 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:25 sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:39 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:12 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:01:36 shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:36 -!- robde [~robde@wlan-95-134.uni-koblenz.de] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 16:02:18 robde [~robde@wlan-95-134.uni-koblenz.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:59 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:03:08 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:04:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:05 -!- Kryztof [~user@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:05:04 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 16:05:32 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:05:47 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:54 babel readtable case fixes: https://github.com/cl-babel/babel/issues/3 16:09:43 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 16:11:45 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:13:13 sykopomp: just for the record, i wasn't serious. i think i saw you watch a php library on github, so i picked that. i would've picked something more appropriate if i had a clue. 16:13:28 -!- Night-hacks [~amir@95.38.52.65] has left #lisp 16:15:21 maucar [~chatzilla@c-76-127-197-39.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:29 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:15:52 -!- robde [~robde@wlan-95-134.uni-koblenz.de] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 16:16:15 -!- maucar [~chatzilla@c-76-127-197-39.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:17:17 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:18:05 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:19:12 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:20:53 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 16:21:08 Hello #lisp 16:21:35 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:57 Is there a facility in slime (other than the inspector) which would show me the super and subclasses of a class (maybe in a tree like presentation) ? 16:25:59 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db57cb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:39 kirkwood [~user@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 16:31:51 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-43.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:33:27 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:33:54 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-eeheuloqjosoqtth] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:54 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:55 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:05 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-exndafwjhuhliwhr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:07 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db57cb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:40:33 Xach: aroundp 16:41:28 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:41:47 lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:41:58 silver [~kingrat@178.121.134.139] has joined #lisp 16:42:02 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD6385.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:02 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: vervic] 16:42:19 Jasko [~tjasko@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 16:42:49 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:04 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:05 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 16:43:16 tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 16:44:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:26 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:48:14 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 16:48:53 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:49:16 madnificent: frankly, I'm hurt. 16:49:51 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:00 -!- kirkwood [~user@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Moo] 16:50:48 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:39 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:43 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:51 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:03:31 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:05:09 sykopomp: you still maintain cl-devil? 17:05:33 hi gigamonkey 17:07:21 bfein [~bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:08 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:27 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.123] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:09:29 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 17:09:41 -!- pavelludiq is now known as pavelpenev 17:10:23 Xach: yo. Two things. 17:10:31 oGMo: I mostly just accept patches from people and merge them in for everyone's convenience. I don't actually use it myself. 17:10:42 1. Any outstanding problems with monkeylib? 17:10:44 sykopomp: ah 17:11:25 gigamonkey: yes, monkeylib-foo does not build 17:11:26 kami: #'describe will print out a textual description of a class. 17:11:37 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:50 including direct superclasses and sublcasses 17:11:53 2. Long ago we talked idly about some idea of making an sort of pseudo file system that could live in a single file. Have you had any more thoughts along those lines. 17:12:11 Xach: unless there are other libs that depend on monkeylib-foo, I think you can drop it from QL. 17:12:17 gigamonkey: ok 17:12:19 If there are, I'll see if I can fix it up. 17:13:15 gigamonkey: no real evolution of my ideas on the topic. i'd just like some way to perform filesystem operations on things that are more abstract than the actual filesystem. pkhuong rightly pointed out that it will only work if there is no foreign code involved, but that's not an issue for me. 17:13:52 I'm trying to think of a good way to make Whistle plugins that can bundle up some code and CSS and JS into one unit that can be dropped somewhere and Just Work. 17:13:59 kami: there's a very, very crappy visualizer thing. 17:14:03 e.g. i'd like it if I could have a directory, probe-file, open, file-write-date, etc that worked on e.g. an iso9660 image 17:14:21 gigamonkey: oh, i don't think it's feasible for portable CL any time soon. i'd be happy with something sbcl-only. 17:14:45 Well, I guess for my purposes I don't really need full filesystem. 17:15:08 One way to do it would be to compile the contents of the files into the code (as strings or octect arrays). 17:15:21 Which seems a bit gross and bloated but maybe isn't so terrible. 17:15:35 Or I can just assume the source is around and can use the asdf-system-directory to find things. 17:15:39 Which also seems a bit gross. 17:15:53 asdf:system-relative-pathname is the thing, but i avoid that too, now. 17:16:03 right, that one. 17:16:10 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:16:11 http://xach.livejournal.com/294639.html has a few things i do now, and more good ideas in the comments 17:16:20 That was one nice feature of Java. You could have arbitrary "resources" that would be found the same way .class files were. 17:16:30 rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 17:16:41 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:01 Anyone have a library for parsing PNG files. 17:18:09 gigamonkey: png-read by ramarren 17:19:24 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:20:40 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-200-105.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:21:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-221-112.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:21:56 I'm loving slime-close-all-parens-in-sexp . if you can't get used to paredit-mode this is a pretty handy function to use 17:22:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.76] has joined #lisp 17:23:07 Okay, maybe I don't need to even parse a PNG. What's the simplest way to take two PNGs and create a new one consisting of the two originals stacked vertically? (I'm on a Mac.) 17:23:23 Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-145-215.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:23:55 gigamonkey: i'd say something in the imagemagick thing must be able to do that 17:24:02 *Xach* does not know, on a mac 17:24:12 *Xach* would use imagemagick or wfcomp otherwise 17:24:40 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:47 doesn't imagemagick work on mac? 17:25:04 If you install it, yes. 17:26:39 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:55 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe40fb00-225.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:27:12 Seems like I have it installed (I have convert in /usr/local/bin) but not montage which is the command I need. Hmmm. 17:27:34 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:28:05 gigamonkey: also, making a filesystem so you're able to bundle stuff both sounds extremely cool and overkill. i wouldn't be surprised if i'd start to hack the filesystem in order to get more in touch with lisp's file and directory abstractions. 17:28:05 *rudi* off-topically recommends homebrew for os x unixy-tool-installing 17:28:15 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-145-215.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:28:25 gigamonkey: convert -append 17:29:28 robde [~robde@p57902E18.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:50 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.113.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:28 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-124-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:19 *easye* is a macports committer, and never understood the attraction of homebrew. 17:33:35 I try to keep the CL implementations and SLIME current. 17:34:06 easye: I'm not sure, either, but sometimes it takes a really different way of doing things to appeal to a previously unserved segment of users. A bit like ILISP and SLIME maybe. 17:34:36 Or CMUCL and SBCL. Though I guess those aren't *really* different, but different enough. 17:34:59 The only concrete complaint I've ever heard about macports is that homebrew is "more current", but I try to help a bit with that. 17:35:09 -!- yangzhiwei [~yang@180.117.107.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:36:00 I don't have root on my work machine 17:36:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:51 I think macports has a non-sudo mechanism now, but that is pretty recent (last year) 17:37:08 cool 17:37:13 Xach: thanks. That did the trick. 17:37:51 But requiring sudo privileges is a concrete reason, for sure. 17:37:52 ehu [~erik@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:39:09 And Homebrew is coded in Ruby hosted on Github, so it would get the "cool kid" badge if ports were a game... 17:39:10 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 17:39:50 Alright, going home. 17:39:58 *easye* nods asleep. 17:41:19 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 17:42:40 Jovlang [~user@36.109-247-16.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:49 robde_ [~robde@pC19F7491.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:20 Fade: thanks for #'describe 17:44:56 -!- robde [~robde@p57902E18.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:45:33 hi, is there a more elegant way to convert a list to arguments than (eval `(* ,@'(1 2 3)))) ? 17:45:50 Jovlang: APPLY is the usual thing. 17:45:57 (apply #'* '(1 2 3)) 17:46:09 aha 17:46:23 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.63.80] has left #lisp 17:47:01 -!- ehu [~erik@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:04 yangzhiwei [~yang@49.83.69.133] has joined #lisp 17:48:33 sykopomp: cannot find anything with visual in it other than 'sldb-toggle-details "Toggle frame details visualization"' 17:49:16 using slime 2011-07-03 17:49:57 should I be using a more recent slime for that 'very, very crappy visualizer thing' ? 17:54:18 -!- yangzhiwei [~yang@49.83.69.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-43.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:15 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:20 weinholt [weinholt@debian/emeritus/weinholt] has joined #lisp 17:57:35 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:57:37 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-43.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:59:35 -!- shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:15 robde [~robde@pC19F7B51.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:58 shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:36 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.190] has joined #lisp 18:01:38 (labels ((f (s) (make-symbol (concatenate 'string "programm" s)))) `(Common Lisp the ,(f "able") ,(f "ing") language)) 18:01:49 -!- robde_ [~robde@pC19F7491.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02:03 -!- shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:06:56 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 18:12:02 ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:56 serg_foo [~sergey@80.252.242.109] has joined #lisp 18:14:25 n'p 18:21:50 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe40fb00-225.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 18:22:03 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:29 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 18:25:31 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:30:02 littlebot [~littlebot@212.183.128.190] has joined #lisp 18:31:52 robde_ [~robde@p57902D3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:48 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:50 -!- robde [~robde@pC19F7B51.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:38:11 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:40:21 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:59 -!- littlebot [~littlebot@212.183.128.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:41:34 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:36 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 18:42:16 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:49 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 18:42:59 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 18:43:27 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:43:48 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:46 Hi all, does anybody use slime with latest ecl? 18:45:07 I do, but not really the latest slime 18:45:26 (and it's ecl cvs/git head, not the last release) 18:45:35 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:45:56 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 18:46:03 latest cvs slime seems to hang when connecting to development, doesn't you experience similar problems? 18:46:21 I've not tried the latest slime with it so far 18:46:32 when it works, I try not to update slime unnecessarily too often :) 18:47:34 I should update less too 18:48:31 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 18:48:56 hmm that slime might be from mid-december 18:49:41 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:47 latest slime seems to be 6th january if github version is really the latest one 18:49:55 hmm oh actually... early september most likely, now that I look at the timestamps 18:50:18 I've never tried its git repository, only the official cvs one 18:51:45 I see, thanks for help 18:52:30 http://ftp.pulsar-zone.net/tmp/slime.tgz if you want my snapshot btw 18:52:38 jdz [~jdz@host251-106-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:52:45 I just archived it in case you can get that one working 18:54:33 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has joined #lisp 18:55:43 thanks a lot it works well 18:55:56 shurane [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:59 welcome 18:56:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:04 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 18:56:27 hmm so that probably means there's a bug in latest slime which must be fixed, though 18:56:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:59:56 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:19 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 19:04:11 peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 19:07:11 Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-62.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 19:07:13 Hello 19:07:32 Paridize-o! 19:11:18 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:04 Is there a non-destructive way to pull items, two at a time, off of a list passed as a parameter to a function? 19:12:27 (loop while my-list collecting (foo (pop my-list) (pop my-list)) 19:12:58 works, but I'm pretty sure that (pop) is destructive to my-list, which is being passed as a parameter to my function, so I shouldn't really mess with it. 19:13:10 (defun f (list) (pop l) (pop l) (when list (list))) 19:13:19 SurlyFrog: pop is not destructive. 19:13:28 it isn't? 19:13:48 I read http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_pop.htm#pop and it made me think that it is 19:13:48 pop expands basically to (prog1 (first list) (setf list (rest list))) ; no destruction here. 19:14:07 by destructive, SurlyFrog means it mutates 19:14:07 binding is changed but list is not mutated 19:14:39 hmm. okay, I think I see that 19:14:40 (loop for i in list by #'cddr for j in (cdr list) by #'cddr collect (foo i j)) 19:14:53 SurlyFrog: (loop for (a b) on my-list by #'cddr SurlyFrog: if you don't want to change the binding of your parameter, use let: (defun f (list) (let ((rest (rest list))) (process (first list)) (when rest (f rest)))) 19:15:17 fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-156-169.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 The multi-variable-binding that Xach suggested is in line with what I was thinking about doing. 19:16:32 Either way, the real nugget of understanding is knowing that the binding has changed, but the list itself isn't mutated. 19:16:39 as always, thanks everyone 19:19:22 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.14] has joined #lisp 19:21:07 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:22:17 robde [~robde@p57902D3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:17 -!- robde_ [~robde@p57902D3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:22:37 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:26:13 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-43.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27:50 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-104-253.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:20 I'm guessing that in the completely general case it's undecidable but suppose you have two regexps and you want to determine if the languages they match overlap, what's a good way. (The answer can be huristic, i.e. allowing for false positives and negatives.) 19:29:25 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:38 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:06 I'm not helping you with your job interview questions! 19:31:15 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 19:31:36 Xach: oh, snap! 19:31:44 Actually this is Whistle related. 19:32:02 gigamonkey: Did you make recent changes to foo? Or to a supporting library? I'm wondering how it happened to break. 19:32:31 hydo [~hydo@69.170.161.42] has joined #lisp 19:33:22 Xach: well, a while back I started pulling the good stuff out of FOO into e.g. monkeylib-html ... 19:33:44 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:53 Then lately I made some changes to com.gigamonkey.utilities which all my stuff depends on, and that could well have done it. 19:34:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:32 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has joined #lisp 19:34:33 ah ok 19:35:29 *Xach* yoinks it for now 19:35:52 is this an error in the CL spec?  defun is not required to perform any compile-time side effects. In particular, defun does not make the function definition available at compile time. 19:36:05 since macros can call previously defined functions... 19:36:22 gigamonkey: regarding overlapping of regexes, you can build dfa's for two given regexps and try to find overlapping ways in thos dfa's given that regexps are without backreferences 19:36:28 mishoo_: no, that means you can't rely on that. 19:36:43 Use EVAL-WHEN if you want to define functions in the same file as macros that use them to compute their expansion. 19:37:06 ah, I see.. so it's just fortunate that most implementations do make them available? 19:37:21 Or unfortunate depending on your point of view. 19:37:27 mishoo_: Most don't. 19:37:36 Do any? 19:38:01 sbcl does (I think ccl too). sorry for mentioning 'most', I actually only played with sbcl and ccl 19:38:24 ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has joined #lisp 19:38:26 mishoo_: SBCL does not. 19:38:35 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-62.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:49 CCL does not. 19:39:02 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:39:09 lol.. somehow my code works magically then 19:39:11 mishoo_: Compiling a file with (defun foo () 42) does not create a function in the running environment. 19:39:14 *mishoo_* does a quick test 19:39:21 you are loading the file instead of compiling it? 19:39:22 gigamonkey: The intersection of two regular languages is regular, so as long as your regexes aren't too fancy it should be computable 19:40:06 vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-159-204.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 19:40:18 kennyd: I'm loading stuff from slime during development, but build via buildapp to get production builds 19:40:47 bjonnh [~bjonnh@bdn33-2-89-86-25-253.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:43:34 hmm, indeed, I do get a compile-time error when I just do (compile-file "test.lisp"), but it works fine via buildapp 19:45:30 mishoo_: How do you work with the file via buildapp? 19:47:54 Xach: buildapp --entry main --load test.lisp --output test 19:47:59 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:48:02 hmm, must be because I used --load? 19:48:28 Yes. 19:48:39 Xach: just out of curiosity, does FOO build for you now. The problem was indeed the change to com.gigamonkey.utilities (which now is a superset of Alexandria) 19:48:42 --load uses cl:load, it does not use compile-file. 19:48:53 And I forgot to change some with-gensyms to with-unique-names. 19:49:22 I'll try sometime soon 19:49:29 But I still think perhaps you should leave it out of QL lest it be an attractive nuisance. 19:49:44 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:48 *Xach* wishes he heard that from more authors! 19:49:54 So don't waste your time unless you're curious or have some reason to want to include it. 19:50:56 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:51:03 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:12 gigamonkey: And given some further thinking, the intersection of the regexes is the complement of the union of the complemented regexes (that is, union(not(A), not(B))) so if you can easily compile your regexes to NFA it's pretty easy 19:54:10 arnsholt: cool. I'll think about that. 19:54:19 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.145.252] has joined #lisp 19:55:33 vantage|2 [~vantage@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:59:04 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.145.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:01:19 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.78.166] has joined #lisp 20:01:49 -!- Jovlang [~user@36.109-247-16.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:08 PCL actually explains this pretty well.. I should have re-read the section on eval-when before asking here :) 20:02:26 one thing I still don't get  what would be a practical usage for eval-when :execute? I can totally get the other two 20:02:28 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.111] has joined #lisp 20:02:51 mishoo_: The idiomatic use is to specify all three all the time. 20:02:58 yeah, got this 20:03:32 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:34 I reckon that when the size of the .fasl matters it's nice to use compile-time for stuff you know you don't need at runtime 20:03:41 but :execute? 20:03:56 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 20:04:09 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:04:24 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:19 -!- pavelludiq is now known as pavelpenev 20:07:49 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 20:09:08 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:13:59 -!- serg_foo [~sergey@80.252.242.109] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:15:04 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20:27 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 20:20:43 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 20:22:07 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:24 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:24:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:05 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 20:26:17 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 20:26:40 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:53 mishoo_: I think :execute is for if you have macro that can be used both at the top level and not. 20:28:35 But EVAL-WHEN was something where I tried really hard to fully wrap my head around all the implications of what the spec says and failed. 20:28:45 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:28:54 :load-toplevel is when loading .fasl files. :execute is when loading .lisp files. 20:29:39 maybe it's because the spec didn't want to imply that conforming implementations should be compilers? (so perhaps :execute is something that makes sense for an interpreter instead). just guessing 20:29:43 yeah, it's a hard section 20:29:59 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:30:24 I'm writing a compiler for lisp in JS and got to the part where eval-when makes sense. :) but the CL spec on the matter is hard to grock 20:31:00 -!- saeftl [cbauerm@pestilenz.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:32:37 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-049.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:33:03 pjb: I don't think that's right. 20:33:22 "The use of the situation :execute (or eval) controls whether evaluation occurs for other eval-when forms; that is, those that are not top level forms, or those in code processed by eval or compile." 20:34:12 Though I wouldn't fall off my chair if you can point to some section of the spec that says that syntactically top-level forms in a file aren't treated as "top-level" when the file is LOAD'ed. 20:34:26 Well, I'm talking about toplevel eval-when. LOAD of a .lisp calls EVAL. 20:38:20 I'm defining 2 systems in my .asd file(defsystem), and creating 2 packages in project_name.lisp file(while in cl-user), but when I asdf:load-system or ql:quickload, only functions in one of this packages are being evaluated, I can't use any variables in other package, does anyone have any ideas about this? 20:38:26 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has joined #lisp 20:38:40 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 20:40:47 osa1: The entire project is in that lisp file? 20:41:17 Xach: nope, I have 2 package, each one is it's own file 20:41:36 Xach: I added files to :components part of defsystem 20:42:20 osa1: Can you paste your system definition file? 20:43:16 Xach: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/536385/ 20:44:19 osa1: Which system's functions are unavailable? 20:44:32 Xach: cl-mst-test 20:44:50 osa1: Did you (asdf:load-system "cl-mst-test") first? 20:45:04 Xach: no, I'm just loding cl-mst 20:45:10 -!- koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:45:48 Xach: should I seperately load cl-mst-test? they're defined in same .asd file 20:46:21 How could (asdf:load-system "cl-mst-test") work if there's no cl-mst-test.asd file? 20:46:34 koollman [samson_t@87.252.5.161] has joined #lisp 20:47:16 pjb: it can work. 20:47:26 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-rqnhdiogkzorvlog] has joined #lisp 20:47:42 osa1: evaluating the defsystem form creates the system definition. asdf:load-system actually loads the components of the system. 20:48:00 osa1: it's a bit like reading the blueprints first, and then actually building the house. 20:48:05 -!- robde [~robde@p57902D3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:48:19 pjb: after (asdf:find-system "cl-mst") the .asd file is loaded and the test system is defined. 20:48:20 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-208.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-88.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:28 It cannot be found independently 20:48:35 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:38 I am not overfond of that style. 20:48:51 OK. I too would prefer to have a single system per asd file. 20:50:04 right, thanks. btw I've tried for hunchentoot, it has one .asd file but two systems and we need to load each system separately. 20:50:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.76] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:50:09 am I missing something or everything works as expected? he is loading cl-mst, which does not depend on cl-msg-test (as it shouldn't). so obviously files in cl-mst-test aren't loaded 20:50:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-201.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:50:52 kennyd: good point 20:50:56 kennyd: it is a matter of adjusting expectations 20:53:30 Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-153-48.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 20:54:12 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:54:53 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-049.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:57:59 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:58:17 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.29] has joined #lisp 21:00:15 pjb: hi 21:00:28 gigamonkey: hi 21:02:10 cl-json converts JSON dictionaries to plists and JSON lists to cl lists, how can I distiguish them? right now I'm checking 21:02:28 (and (consp list) (consp (car list)) (consp (caar list))(keywordp (caaar list)))) 21:02:47 obviously it's not a good solution 21:03:05 osa1: I think there is an option to return hashes instead of plists for objects 21:03:09 mensch [~mensch@blade71.cs.umb.edu] has joined #lisp 21:03:26 I didn't find it very useful though  normally I know what kind of data to expect and act accordingly 21:03:40 s/useful/needed/ 21:05:19 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:07:07 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 21:07:38 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:09:22 -!- pavelludiq is now known as pavelpenev 21:09:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:12 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has joined #lisp 21:11:34 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has quit [Client Quit] 21:12:25 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 21:13:31 osa1: in my json library (https://github.com/gigamonkey/monkeylib-json) I return dicts as either plists or hash tables and JSON lists as vectors. 21:14:16 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:14:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:28 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.41.134] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:18:12 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:18:39 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD6385.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:18:51 Kryztof [~user@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:21:54 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-239-67.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:24 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-170.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:15 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:24:20 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-230-162.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:28 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:26:02 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-049.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-049.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:27:41 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:07 Posterdati [~tapioca@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:29:50 cmm [~cmm@109.65.208.18] has joined #lisp 21:37:29 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-2-188.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:40:50 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:42:28 gigamonkey: looks great. can I get your lib from quicklisp? (I tried monkeylib-json but didn't work) 21:42:45 -!- clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:44:50 hi 21:44:55 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:45:09 pjb, flip215, fe[nl]ix: hi 21:45:16 Hi! 21:46:27 hi 21:46:47 davlap [~davlap@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:58 -!- mensch [~mensch@blade71.cs.umb.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:01 osa1: hmmm, looks like maybe it's not in there. 21:49:35 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:49:36 I just added an issue for Xach to add it. So maybe next month. 21:50:52 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:51:20 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:51:59 -!- Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:08 Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:10 ok, thanks. btw I just saw that cl-json can convert JSON lists to cl vectors and JSON dictionaries to cl hash tables(clos decoder part of http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-json/ ) 21:53:30 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 21:54:10 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:17 I've got to be missing something dead obvious with this macro.... 21:55:18 http://paste.lisp.org/+2Q36 21:55:45 Why isn't the list 'stuff' spliced into the all-stuff list? 21:56:16 -!- vantage|2 [~vantage@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 21:56:20 are you calling it as (define-tester (all this stuff in a list))? 21:56:32 yes 21:56:43 '(a bunch of stuff) 21:57:47 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-rqnhdiogkzorvlog] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:11 that would splice in (quote (a bunch of stuff)) 21:58:33 yielding (list "start" quote (a bunch of stuff) "end") 21:58:34 Ah, that's what I'm getting. 21:58:47 How should it be called? Just raw (a bunch of stuff) 21:59:04 I'd use a &rest argument first of all 21:59:05 Yes, that works.... 21:59:09 Ah, ok. 22:01:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has joined #lisp 22:01:50 Except I actually want to pass in a list. There are other params that will be in the real macro. 22:02:08 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.78.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:47 then don't quote the list coming in 22:04:22 I see. I forgot macros don't evaluate args, even QUOTE 22:04:24 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:37 yep, QUOTE and FUNCTION tend to be real hangups 22:04:39 pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-241-86-82.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:02 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:01 If I did use REST and quoted the list passed in, how could I splice those args from 2 levels of quotes? 22:07:06 er, parens? 22:08:25 why would you quote the list coming in? 22:08:54 but if you know it's quoted, you should be able to use ,@(second params) 22:08:58 I probably won't, but I'd just like to know how to handle it, since this tripped me up. 22:09:05 however, leaving off the quote is by far the clearest way to go 22:09:23 -!- operative [~lol@adsl-70-234-105-120.dsl.tul2ok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:09:33 Ah, ok. 22:09:55 and if you want every element of your list quoted in the final output, using backquote instead of list would be better 22:10:25 I believe it'd be `("start" ,@,stuff "end") 22:11:04 ",@',stuff", actually. 22:11:20 Leaving off the quote is better, lol. 22:11:25 `,@ 22:11:33 ah, ok 22:11:46 I was just being academic at that point. 22:12:01 Phoodus: unless he wants two rounds of evaluations. 22:12:10 I do not, in this case. 22:12:16 jmckitrick: this last round _is_ without quoted input 22:14:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.29] has quit [Quit: Offline] 22:14:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-200-105.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:50 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:14:58 I have an old quicklisp dist (2011-08-29), and find that I need a newer version of one of the packages. I'd rather not do a full upgrade of everything at this time because I don't want to run into any compatibility problems between my code and newer versions of anything I might be using (such as hunchentoot). What's the easy way to do this? 22:15:04 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:15:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:38 -!- ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:16:49 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 22:17:30 -!- silver [~kingrat@178.121.134.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:24 nyef: use regular asdf? QL has a hook to look in ~/quicklisp/local-dist [?] now, and has for a couple months. 22:18:55 local-projects I think it is. 22:19:19 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:19:25 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:28 Mmm... I'm not seeing a local-projects directory, and I think that's more recent than my quicklisp install. 22:22:28 -!- jdz [~jdz@host251-106-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:23:06 -!- mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:23:17 Okay, I just push a directory containing .asd files or symlinks to .asd files to the start of asdf:*central-registry*? 22:27:34 francogrex [~user@109.130.1.48] has joined #lisp 22:29:02 you can update the QL client though 22:29:02 nyef: that works. Your normal ASDF configuration takes precedence over Quicklisp. 22:29:30 I assume that leaves the dist the same 22:29:50 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:59 for something like that: (maphash #'(lambda (k v) (declare (ignore k)) (setf (nth 0 v) (remove nil (nth 0 v))) (setf (nth 1 v) (remove nil (nth 1 v)))) *table*) is it better to use "delete" nil instead? 22:30:16 Guthur: I don't want to take the chance, I just want this to be working when I leave the office in about 15 minutes. 22:30:47 And it looks like pushing a new directory to the central registry works. Thanks! 22:30:57 Sure. Xach could confirm either way 22:31:55 I assume because there is a separate update-all-dist that update-client would be doing something else; but better safe than sorry 22:32:26 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:16 nyef: are you busy these days? don't see much activity from you around here, compared to the past. 22:33:18 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-156-169.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:52 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:26 Yeah, I have a $dayjob. 22:36:32 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:37:26 They do eat into ones free time 22:37:40 ...bills need to be paid though 22:37:48 Also into one's free motivation. /-: 22:38:08 just wait until you have children 22:38:11 True. 22:38:12 yep, preach it nyef 22:38:13 (hi nyef) 22:38:14 Still, getting paid to put hunchentoot to good use isn't all bad. (-: 22:38:48 I'm actually quite enjoying my current job at the moment, helps a lot in maintaining overall motivation I fell 22:38:49 feel* 22:38:55 Although my copy of Muchnick has been relegated (along with a stack of other books) to serving as a monitor stand. 22:39:21 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:39:24 Kron [~Kron@69.166.20.111] has joined #lisp 22:39:26 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:31 paid to do lispy things would be great 22:39:41 the closest I get is some elisp 22:39:50 -!- Kron is now known as Guest609 22:40:12 the rest is C++ and Tcl; Tcl ain't so bad though 22:40:23 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:40:24 Actually, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we end up needing another person to hack on our server soon. 22:40:30 we really need some sort of lint though 22:40:47 *oGMo* discovers slime-profile-* 22:40:48 Guthur: it's overrated 22:41:23 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:35 I had to fix a prod issue today because someone copied and pasted some code which call a non existent proc 22:41:38 nyef: sucks for muchnick ;) 22:41:51 Not sure a lint would catch it, but maybe 22:42:09 nyef: where are you getting paid to use hunchentoot? 22:42:20 *gigamonkey* plots an eventual infiltration of toot/whistle 22:42:25 gigamonkey: A small startup in Boston. 22:42:59 felideon: btw, what was overrated, Jobs Tcl or lints 22:43:04 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:43:12 hehe, or all three 22:43:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:34 Guthur: nevermind 22:43:41 *felideon* exits quietly through the side door 22:43:49 gigamonkey: We needed a server component for our project, and I would be damned if I let the opportunity to hack in lisp go by after being told I had a free hand on technology selection. 22:43:58 Guthur: these days, gcc or clang -W -Wall catches most of what lint used to be useful for. 22:44:20 nyef: if you guys are using hunchentoot in anger and run into any pain points, I'd be interested to hear about it. 22:44:24 pkhuong: it was for Tcl 22:45:16 Well, we're using whatever hunchentoot was current at the end of September. 22:45:26 gcc is reason for sure, though at the moment we are still using the Sun compiler that comes with solaris; we are moving to RHEL soon 22:45:46 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:45:46 francogrex: depends. 22:45:47 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.76] has joined #lisp 22:46:25 If you have somewhere (setf (some-place) (gethash :key *table*)), do you want (some-place) to change when you remove the nils or not? 22:46:33 Having to reset the dispatch table to add new handlers was a pain-point for a while, but I've changed my approach since. 22:47:01 Umm... Scalability might be a problem down the line. I don't suppose you've got a thread-pooled version do you? 22:48:10 nyef: I don't at the moment. But part of the point of toot was to strip things down enought that I could wrap my head around making a change like that. 22:48:14 ehu [~erik@62.140.137.155] has joined #lisp 22:48:30 Fair enough. 22:48:33 Sounds like the cool kids these days use iolib or whatever it's called so that's a distant plan. 22:48:56 I'm also thinking about making toot async under the covers to enable supporting long GETs without burning a thread. 22:48:56 Oh, you know what's a pain? Dealing with parameter lists. 22:49:05 pjb: yes want it to change as to have no nils only that. 22:49:13 you mean parsing parameters coming from forms? 22:49:27 All this (cdr (assoc blah blah :test #'string=)) is annoying. 22:49:58 gigamonkey: if it's just for COMET (long polling), you don't have to support full-blown aync GET. 22:50:34 nyef: Thats assoc lists. parameter lists are with getf. And for exactly the case you mentioned I have a function callod safe-assoc which does what you describe and signals a condition if no entry was found 22:50:51 So in whistle you can do (with-parameters ((foo integer) (bar keyword)) ...) 22:51:08 is hunchentoot vulnerable to the POST hash-table DoS bug that's been making the PHP/Python people cry into their beers? 22:51:11 Neronus: No, that's property lists. 22:51:23 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has joined #lisp 22:51:30 pkhuong: I'm not sure I follow. 22:51:32 Neronus: Hunchentoot parameters are stored in alists. 22:51:43 Though maybe I don't know what you mean by "full-blown async GET" 22:52:18 My point is you need to allow the user-code that handles a request to return without generating a response and then later grab the request and use it to send a response. 22:52:48 ah, for slow severs, not slow clients. 22:53:03 Kryztof: probably not since it doesn't use hash tables for much of anything. 22:53:04 Kryztof: no, because alists are expected to suck. 22:53:12 i.e. what pkhuong said. 22:53:21 *phew* Lisp wins again 22:53:25 DataLinkDroid [~David@110.141.149.28] has joined #lisp 22:53:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:53:56 francogrex: then use delete. 22:54:07 francogrex: however, becareful if you have threads. 22:54:25 If you have a loop on the list while you call delete, things will break. 22:54:59 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:55:24 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:26 ok i see. thanks pjb; 22:55:41 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.1.48] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:58:36 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:58:49 madnificent: the whistle config file is now Lisp code. 22:59:51 -!- Guest609 [~Kron@69.166.20.111] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 23:00:07 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.111] has joined #lisp 23:00:59 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:22 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 23:01:37 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:02:56 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-2-188.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:04:10 -!- ehu [~erik@62.140.137.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:25 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.225.246] has joined #lisp 23:04:37 Okay, time I left again. Maybe back tomorrow. 23:04:43 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all, and thanks again.] 23:06:57 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.194.72] has joined #lisp 23:08:31 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:54 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.111] has joined #lisp 23:09:12 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:10:53 Hey, yet another blogging engine written in lisp. At least the starts. NIH-syndrome \o/ 23:12:29 Neronus: on top of hunchentoot? 23:12:34 Neronus: What is that? 23:13:47 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:17 gigamonkey: Yes; toot is not ready/stable, right? 23:14:32 antoszka: What? NIH? Not invented here :) 23:15:02 Neronus: No, what blogging engine are you mentioning. I know what the NIH syndrome is :) 23:15:18 antoszka: The one on my harddisk :) 23:15:22 :) 23:15:50 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:00 One day it's going to be grown up blog with content that does not consist of "foo bar baz" 23:16:36 Neronus: well, I'm in the process of building ... wait for it ... a blog framework on top of whistle. 23:16:38 So it's getting there. 23:17:02 I have even 2 ideas to blog about: A crwaler for InterfaceLift and a comic website crwaler. And of course clesh 23:17:10 gigamonkey: What a surprise :P 23:17:16 But, yeah, it's not totally stable. On the other hand, if folks want to kick the tires on it that feedback would be useful. 23:17:39 Well, I guess I can give it a go 23:17:41 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.117.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:09 I'm not using any features so far except routing and getting the uri and GET parameters 23:19:18 Anybody here in Philadelphia next week or in New York the two weeks after? 23:20:56 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-124-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:21:23 Neronus: so you'll probably want to build on top of Whistle. 23:21:47 Though there are no docs at the moment so if you want to wait a bit, that's understandable. 23:22:24 At some point I'll probably take things folks have built on top of hunchentoot and try to rehost them on whistle. 23:22:41 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:22:43 So if yours is on github at some point, maybe I'll try the transplant. 23:23:44 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:21 gigamonkey: ok, acknowledged. I'll think about it 23:25:24 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pizzwddkylvotsvj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:33 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-153-48.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:49 gigamonkey: If you ever make another project ontop of toot, call it sweet, and the stack is called toot/sweet 23:25:53 -!- msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 23:25:56 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:26:58 anyway, good night 23:27:09 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:31 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 23:28:33 Though someone poined out the other day that toot and whistle are half of toot, whistle, plunk, and boom, from some old Disney movie. 23:29:51 hrm does the sbcl (deterministic) profiler count stack allocations as consed? 23:30:26 oGMo: no. 23:30:50 didn't _think_ so, but wanted to eliminate the obvious 23:31:15 it will count at a fairly high granularity though 23:31:21 a couple KB at a time 23:32:13 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:34:41 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:36:29 gigamonkey: how does monkeylib-json differ from the other jsons? 23:37:16 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 23:37:29 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-136-24.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:37:54 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-184-61.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:38:08 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:40:41 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:40:44 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@bdn33-2-89-86-25-253.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:36 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 23:42:02 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@149.62.178.226] has joined #lisp 23:42:59 Xach: dunno. I wrote it so it does what I want. :-| 23:43:27 It came up because it returns vectors for JSON lists which makes them distinguishable from dictionaries 23:43:36 (which come back as either plists or hashtables) 23:44:18 It also goes both ways json->lisp and lisp->json. (Maybe the others do as well.) 23:44:40 gigamonkey: the information lossage inherent to alists/plists makes that difficult. 23:45:04 osa1 wanted to try it but it's not in QL. 23:45:14 pkhuong: eh? 23:45:40 Well, it can't convert arbitrary Lisp data to JSON, just Lisp data that maps to JSON. 23:46:11 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-upghczqulezajrsm] has joined #lisp 23:46:32 gigamonkey: other libraries can't round trip because they can't distinguish between lists and alists reliably. 23:46:34 And the mapping I've defined uses plists (or hashtables) to represent dicts. 23:46:54 pkhuong: I think that's because they use Lisp lists for JSON arrays. But I use vectors. 23:47:00 right. 23:47:13 So no, others can't. 23:47:38 I remember one that tries a couple combinations (backtracking via condition handling) and then gives up by not handling some internal error. 23:47:39 *gigamonkey* wins! 23:47:41 telefon [~telefon@82.113.106.138] has joined #lisp 23:48:07 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 23:50:12 all right. What's this disqus thing? 23:50:53 disqus is a hosted comment system 23:51:13 you stick a snippet of js into your page and you get a comment system with a lot of management features 23:51:37 oh, management features. Sounds like work ;) 23:51:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:52:47 Well, if you get the kinds of comments that need management, it's work no matter what. 23:52:55 Kron [~Kron@199.91.214.37] has joined #lisp 23:52:56 Otherwise it is pretty hassle-free. 23:53:21 -!- Kron is now known as Guest5711 23:53:23 -!- Guest5711 [~Kron@199.91.214.37] has quit [Client Quit] 23:53:35 Kron__ [~Kron@199.91.214.37] has joined #lisp 23:53:56 -!- telefon [~telefon@82.113.106.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:49 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:59:04 gigamonkey: when did you write it?