00:00:07 TeP -> TiP? 00:00:07 (this is unrealistic, but whatever) 00:00:09 Yeah 00:00:19 though it's case insensitive 00:00:38 (that is, unless you are using X-SAMPA) 00:00:42 sbryant: it compiled , zero errors this time but no window appeard 00:00:55 i think i am very close :D 00:01:00 It might be running 00:01:09 sometimes it doesn't popup in the foreground 00:01:09 so env-before would be the T, and env-after the P? and sound the e, result i? 00:01:18 Yeah 00:01:24 sbcl should be in your dock, try clicking it 00:04:11 Cosman246: So you could describe each sound change as a tuple: (before, thing, after, becomes), where all of those are strings. What are the lists for? 00:04:22 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:35 Because env-before and env-after are usually a set of sounds 00:05:01 e.g., labial consonants (p, b) 00:05:48 I'm not sure I understand, but couldn't you just describe that as multiple rules? 00:06:48 One could, but then this would be outpaced by even the most basic sound change applier, Mark Rosenfelder's sounds 00:06:55 it's also kind of clunky 00:07:06 -!- aliasxerog [~mveety@thefoundry.csh.rit.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:08:06 In fact, that's the reason I have the cond and mapcar 00:08:31 sbryant: I am still using ccl, the problem is that it cant stll find cocoahelper 00:08:43 DId you compile it? 00:08:44 i have make install 00:08:50 ok, maybe I'm not being clear. What I'm thinking is, say you have a rule like "a becomes e if after a labial consonant". The user inputs this as, I don't know, "La->Le". Your program gets to this, and interprets it as two rules, "pa->pe" and "ba->be". 00:08:58 yes i did make and make install 00:09:03 it should have a restart of use-value 00:09:06 (or rather, internal representations of those) 00:09:07 it put it in usr/local 00:09:09 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:09:10 point it to the dylib it generated 00:09:41 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.70.162] has joined #lisp 00:09:48 absolute path ? 00:09:48 Ah, so the rule is converted to multiple rules, then thrown into the engine? 00:10:02 Yep 00:10:11 yeah. 00:11:00 There's always the option of converting it into a parse tree and passing that to regex-replace-all, but that's a bit too black magic for me 00:11:40 It's just that I'm guessing your error might be due to env-before, sound, and/or env-after being lists of different length. 00:12:14 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.203.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:13:18 sbryant: i do , still it complains now that it cant construct argument list 00:13:29 Bike: ah 00:13:33 i assume its the libglfw.a file 00:13:36 Not sure what's going on at that point 00:13:56 kilon run the lispbuilder-sdl-examples 00:14:10 load that system and checkout some examples to see if it works at all 00:14:52 cosman246_ [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has joined #lisp 00:14:58 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has left #lisp 00:15:06 Cosman246_: actually, you could skip what I said... if you have a rule with two befores and two afters (and one sound) you'd want four changes applied, wouldn't you? 00:15:46 sbryant: it loads it with no complains 0_0 00:15:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:15:59 did any examples run? 00:16:03 -!- cosman246_ is now known as Cosman246 00:16:17 sbryant: sorry for being noob but how do i run them ? 00:16:18 Bike: yes 00:16:29 (sdl-examples:recursive-rects) run that 00:17:10 ejbs`` [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 00:17:15 sbryant: unhandled exception 00:17:29 No clue 00:17:40 Works for me 00:17:40 exception occured while executed foreign code 00:18:00 i am pretty sure cocoabuilder is to blame here 00:18:01 Cosman246: mapcarring over all three lists simultaneously is wrong anyway, then. if you had (p,b)a(c,d), you'd only apply pac and bad. you want nested iteration, probably with dolist. 00:20:17 Thank you! 00:20:25 Bike: I will need to look at that 00:20:34 kilon: it works for me :-\ 00:20:44 but I ended up ditching CCL 00:21:15 -!- ejbs` [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:21:30 Not for any fault of it's own but I don't have familiarity with it like I do sbcl 00:22:50 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:25:35 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:30 sbryant: i installed sdl via dmg, i will install it from source to me sure, i like ccl because of the objc bridge 00:28:21 i dont have a serious problem switching to sbcl but i am pretty sure its my mistake that sdl does not work 00:28:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:06 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.100] has joined #lisp 00:33:12 wws [~billstcla@p-209-105-142-74.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:15 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-195-82.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:37 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:34:49 -!- wws is now known as billstclair 00:34:53 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-209-105-142-74.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:53 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:34:58 -!- billstclair is now known as wws 00:36:47 -!- christoph_debian [~user@DSL01.212.114.250.148.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:57 Bike: I haven 00:38:01 whr [~user@89-73-66-87.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 00:38:07 *haven't ever used dolist before 00:38:20 Thanks for your suggestion, though 00:39:10 sbryant: I did it ! 00:39:10 You could do it with nested mapcar too, but dolist seems more natural to me in that situation. 00:39:18 the example works! 00:39:26 but of course it freezes slime 00:39:40 but it opens the window and draw the rectangles 00:39:51 Cool 00:39:57 I'll look it up. Thanks 00:39:58 thanks man, could not do it without you 00:40:03 Yeah, I need t oput a repl in the main loop 00:40:09 so it can receive events during the run 00:40:20 it was my stupidity, dont know what i made earlier but it was not the right cocoahelper 00:41:03 sbryant: http://paste.lisp.org/display/18280 00:41:17 ikki [~ikki@189.247.130.170] has joined #lisp 00:41:48 I was just going to have swank handle events 00:41:54 and let slime be my repl 00:42:07 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-188-76.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:42:50 can you paste me again what i need to change in slime in order not to freeze ? 00:43:30 That's normal 00:43:47 the game loop blocks the main thread 00:43:53 ah ok, so it goes inside a infinite loop without any hopes of exiting ? 00:44:02 ok i see 00:45:05 Yep 00:45:46 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-63-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:47:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:48:53 ok 00:49:00 your test compiles 00:49:11 but i have to quickload from repl 00:49:34 for a strange reasons it bypasses the quickloads in source code 00:49:43 still i cant see a window 00:51:20 quickload only loads what is not already loaded. 00:52:58 well when i load the test file it reports the quickloads 00:53:23 both lispbuilder-sdl and cl-opengl 00:54:03 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:54:18 (load "sdltest.lisp") 00:54:40 ^ this is how i load my lisp file 00:56:30 and here is my lisp file 00:56:31 http://pastebin.com/MPuRAdM1 00:56:35 kilon: i don't even mention that file in the asd that's why 00:57:36 test is more of a playground of things 00:58:03 sbryant: should not the above code i linked create a window ? 01:07:40 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE9059F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:12:52 kilon it does in here after I load that file and call test-sdl-openg1l-drawing function 01:17:03 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402451.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:18:53 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:22 Bike: how should I use nested iteration in this case?? 01:19:23 *? 01:20:39 think about what it is you want. you want to do something different for each env-before, so you think "for each env-before...". You want to do something for each env-after, so you get "for each env-before: for each env-after...". etc. 01:21:12 for each element of*, I guess 01:21:23 Thanks 01:21:58 OK, wow 01:22:05 then I don't need that big cond statement! 01:22:10 yay 01:22:35 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:24:22 I'll just put an if and a dolist inside that if 01:24:25 Yay 01:24:59 jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-76-119-13-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:56 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 01:26:10 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-411342.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 01:26:25 OK guys, just one thing: (ql:quickload '(:cl-opengl :lispbuilder-sdl)) 01:26:33 You don't need several statements. 01:27:04 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 Cosman246: not sure if you've tried this but why not just use method dispatching that CLOS gives you? 01:28:48 sbryant: I'll look into that 01:28:48 -!- Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has left #lisp 01:35:22 sbryant: it works fine with me in ccl 01:35:39 Oh awesome 01:35:47 the only issue is that when i try the bezier example 01:36:01 it does not capture the esc key and so it cant exit the loop 01:36:06 dont know why 01:36:38 sbryant: I would not have gone so far without your help, thanks once again :D 01:37:00 Np 01:37:27 kilon: it might be that the events are intercepted by slime 01:37:32 so figure out what works for you 01:37:33 sbryant: can you try for me the bezier example and hit the esc key and tell me if it exits ? 01:37:44 i mean from slime 01:37:45 what package? 01:37:54 its in the examples 01:38:00 its called bezier 01:38:18 Works for me 01:38:26 from slime ? 01:38:32 Yep 01:38:48 weird, maybe i need to set a slime flag or something 01:39:02 I'm using the fd-handler communication style 01:39:15 sbryant: you are on macos ? 01:39:22 Yep 01:39:58 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:41:42 Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has joined #lisp 01:44:10 -!- ejbs`` [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:26 ok time for me to sleep, good night everybody 01:47:09 sty [~quassel@dsl-173-248-237-75.acanac.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:19 tirinim. 01:49:40 mlkith [~mlkith@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 01:50:12 oh by the way, tried running bezier with ccl from command line instead of slime, exact same problem 01:50:31 window with no x button and no response to esc key 01:50:54 so it must be ccl orientated problem, or it may be issue with lion dont know 01:51:02 but will found out 01:51:29 but this way i made sure its not a slime issue or emacs issue 01:51:54 hello. is there a crossplatform CL library for capturing desktop content as an image? 01:52:07 mlkith: AFAIK, no. 01:52:46 Be a hero, write one! 01:52:53 :D 01:57:17 I started writing one, not fun having to manually declare every C function and struct I want to use. I have to get swig working to automatize this somewhat 01:58:08 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:11 -!- jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-76-119-13-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4497.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:48 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:01:24 jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-76-119-13-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:27 do you really need a library? can't you just call "import -window root screenshot.png" and be done with it? 02:03:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-152-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:34 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:05:41 stassats it would be more convenient (and faster) if I could manipulate screenshots without saving them to a disk first 02:06:50 is it slow? 02:08:02 probably if I'm doing it a couple of times per second 02:08:08 mlkith: saving to /tmp probably doesn't ever hit disk. 02:08:24 pkhuong really? 02:08:26 why do you do it so often? 02:08:42 to detect a change in the window 02:09:10 my /tmp is on a ramdisk 02:09:11 mlkith: that's how tmpfs works. 02:09:21 interesting, didn't know 02:09:25 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 02:09:30 mlkith: are you sure that taking screenshots is the right way to go? 02:09:45 mlkith: your /tmp may not be on a ramdisk 02:09:56 but if you have enough memory, it should be 02:10:09 (meaning, you should make it) 02:10:12 and we're back to stassats`'s question: is it slow? 02:10:28 mlkith: xwd doesn't write the dump to a file, but to stdout... 02:11:10 i haven't tested it, didn't think of running imagemagick directly. I'll give it a shot 02:11:11 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:32 but what are you really trying to accomplish? 02:12:29 mlkith: of course, you could have a look at the sources of xwd and do the same with xlib/clix. 02:12:33 xlib/clx. 02:12:53 I'm trying to detect movement in a game. a horrible way to do it I know, but it's the simplest one 02:13:53 mlkith: It's good, we need more intelligent software reading the screen autonomously... 02:14:33 mlkith: anyway, write something which works first, then you can make it faster if needed 02:15:26 -!- dsabanin [~dsabanin@128.75.141.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:17:18 will do. so if I go this route is there a CL library for loading and manipulating images? 02:17:34 depends on the image to load and manipulation to perform. 02:18:03 there's opticl 02:18:29 any image format that imagemagick can output will do. and I just need a way to access individual pixels 02:18:43 opticl works with png 02:20:06 mathslin` [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 02:20:32 looks good 02:20:40 although using some simpler format, like bmp, could be faster 02:20:53 yes true 02:21:04 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:12 time import -window root scr.bmp => 0.177 total time import -window root scr.png 0.511 total 02:21:40 JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 02:22:11 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:47 and tiff is also faster, but it may be slower when opening with opticl 02:27:31 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-411342.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:43 I'll test it 02:28:16 ppm looks to be the best option 02:29:16 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 02:29:31 (time (type-of (opticl:read-ppm-file "/tmp/scr.ppm"))) => 0.359 02:29:36 23.708 for png 02:30:14 66 times faster? 02:30:31 is that what you calculated? then yes 02:30:59 quite a difference 02:32:10 what was the resolution of png? that seems way to slow to open an image 02:32:43 => (SIMPLE-ARRAY BIT (1080 3840)) 02:32:57 3840x1080 02:34:03 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:15 and the same with ppm 02:34:44 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.44.90] has left #lisp 02:34:49 size comparison: 250K for png, 24M for ppm 02:34:55 so, compression is slow 02:36:11 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 02:36:33 slyrus: wouldn't it be reasonable to separate ppm reading into a its own library? 02:38:05 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AF95.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:35 stassats`: you mean two mmaps and allocating an array header? ;) 02:40:09 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:13 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 02:40:23 pkhuong: it also reads pbm and pnm 02:40:25 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B9D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:40:51 it'd be nice for those who don't want to use opticl but want to read them 02:45:19 and from profiling, looks like most of time is spend in SUBSEQ 02:47:13 and looks like it could be optimized away easily 02:55:07 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 02:55:15 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:55:45 hmm, and it looks like it's optimized in a compiler macro but it's not applied when asdf-loading it, but when it does when i do C-c C-c on the form 02:56:27 and who thought it would be a good idea to write a compiler macro which optimizes (foo (subseq ...)) instead of just providing :start and :end to foo? 02:56:58 anyway, with this optimized the time goes from 23 seconds to 3 seconds 02:57:18 And why don't they use COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM.UTILITY:NSUBSEQ ? 02:58:35 stassats` much better, 23 seconds was insane 02:58:49 now i wonder why doesn't sbcl apply this compiler macro 02:59:34 -!- JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: JuniorRoy] 02:59:50 so how did you load it if not with asdf:load-system 03:00:15 mlkith: i did C-c C-c on the form which calls the offending form 03:00:39 isn't load-system compiling and loading all the files? 03:00:44 it does 03:01:39 so why the difference? 03:01:46 you tell me! 03:01:47 mlkith: order, for instance. 03:02:02 the order appears to be correct 03:02:02 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:23 oh no, it isn't 03:02:37 it's loaded in the wrong order in .asd 03:03:13 so the function is compiled after the function that calls it? so sbcl can't inline it or whatever 03:03:23 peccu1 [~peccu@ZU205167.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:03:31 the compiler macro is defined after it's called 03:04:09 -!- PECCU [~peccu@ZL198080.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:04 just fixing the .asd does the trick, although i'd rather just remove that compiler macro and use :start end 03:06:25 order of what files did you change in asd? 03:06:52 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.102.70.162] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:07:04 -!- rme [rme@705FF19F.6C775BE1.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:07:04 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:07:44 (:file "decode" :depends-on ("package" "png-state")) => (:file "decode" :depends-on ("package" "png-state" "basic-chunks")) 03:08:05 although i now see that some files which use this macro are cross-dependent on each other 03:12:49 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:16:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.130.170] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:17:14 JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 03:17:14 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:18 -!- incandenza [u726@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-weelecnodshxbmem] has quit [] 03:23:17 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:27 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:29 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:44 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 03:27:08 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:34:20 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8142F2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:38:15 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 03:38:54 -!- Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:41:40 png-read looks like it wasn't really optimized 03:41:46 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-126-199.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:42:09 duomo [~duomo@120-dcmp11.goeaston.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:15 i bet reading that 3840x1080 png can be done optimized to be read under 100ms 03:44:09 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:07 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:46:14 although it'd involve rewriting the thing from scratch 03:47:01 Bike: the nested iteration approach creates code duplication, though 03:47:12 -!- chenbing [~user@60.186.241.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:48 stassats`: that happens a lot. I just (like now) realized that my optimised FFT is too general: it could be simplified a lot to only support arrays of sized at most ... 4 billion (: 03:49:38 Cosman246: How's that? 03:51:02 (if (listp sound) (if (listp env-before) (if listp env-after...) (if listp env-after....)... 03:51:41 too bad i don't need to read pngs so far, otherwise it'd be fun to write a fast library 03:51:53 I was thinking something like (dolist (sound (ensure-list sounds)) etc) 03:52:39 now i only made it from 3 seconds to 2.3 seconds 03:52:53 which is still slow 04:00:19 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@81-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:01:10 lemoinem [~swoog@149-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:30 Thanks, Bike! 04:05:55 or, better, do-list-designator. 04:06:14 that's a premature optimization! 04:06:29 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:11 What's that? 04:07:16 stassats`: at 4 repetitions, I'm ready to call that a macroable pattern. 04:07:31 Bike: not consing a list 04:07:40 pnq [~nick@AC81A7D0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:47 stassats`: I wasn't even thinking about that aspect. 04:08:27 i call it "do-maybe-list" 04:08:53 Oh. 04:09:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126693 04:09:50 -!- lghtng [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/lghtng] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:56 but stassats` is right: representing single-element lists as atoms instead of lists is probably not worth the trouble. 04:11:29 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:49 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.207.110] has joined #lisp 04:12:15 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:43 -!- JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:49 So is do-maybe-list a way of eliminating all that nesting? 04:15:09 JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 04:16:28 no, it's for dealing with things that may be lists or may just be atoms. I don't see a problem with nesting iteration when that's what you want to do 04:16:31 \ 04:18:01 ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 04:18:20 Bike: depends. Sometimes an old concept called power loops can be useful. 04:18:27 quek [~quek@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 04:18:49 Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:00 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:19:09 Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:32 is there a power-loop macro? 04:19:45 don't think so. 04:20:29 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:41 -!- Guest49411 [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:22:10 I don't think I've even read about it outside c2 and a single old (scanned!) ACM paper from the 70's. 04:22:16 Bike: Still solves my problem! 04:22:23 huh, I've never heard of that before. interesting 04:22:33 Thank you, stassats` ! 04:27:44 -!- ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:01 lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-76-207.w92-160.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:31:25 -!- jackhammer2022 [~textual@c-76-119-13-121.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 04:32:31 -!- lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-76-207.w92-160.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 04:40:01 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:47:07 Yahovah [yann@orion.pi.edu.pk] has joined #lisp 04:50:26 g000001_ [~mc@www14045u.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:50:38 gffa_ [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 04:51:09 setheus_ [~setheus@cpe-76-183-42-9.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:16 Ralith_ [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 04:51:47 stassats`: do-maybe-list has similar syntax as do-list, right? 04:51:55 right 04:52:04 Thanks 04:52:33 (dolist (x (ensure-list list))) == (dolist (x list)) 04:52:35 stepnem_ [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 04:52:51 do-maybe-list in the second 04:52:53 unless list is not a list. 04:53:54 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:54:07 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:55:34 Wait, so it doesn't produce a new binding to a variable that's been passed to it, or...? 04:55:49 *Cosman246* realizes what he's just said, then facepalms 04:55:53 -!- peccu1 [~peccu@ZU205167.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- g000001 [~mc@www14045u.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-76-183-42-9.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:55:53 -!- stepnem_ is now known as stepnem 04:56:03 it may create a new binding, or may update the existing one 04:56:18 on each iteration, that is 04:56:57 so if I have (defun sc (sound env-before env-after result lexicon) (do-maybe-list (sound env-before env-after result))) then.... 04:57:34 it should not create/update the binding? 04:57:50 (as in, send me into the debugger) 04:58:08 that's the wrong syntax 04:58:26 Hmmm? 04:58:47 your usage of do-maybe-list is wrong 04:59:05 you'd use it just like DOLIST 04:59:09 I know what "that's the wrong syntax" means 04:59:16 I just wanted to know how 04:59:20 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:59:32 OK, thanks 04:59:41 it expects two arguments, you give it 4 04:59:54 OH 04:59:58 *Cosman246* facepalms 05:00:39 so I should put some (do-maybe-list...) nesting? 05:01:01 if that's what you want to do 05:01:02 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 05:01:16 Thanks 05:01:27 do-maybe-list is exactly like dolist except that it also accepts non-lists 05:01:47 I must go now, but thank you! 05:01:49 Good night! 05:01:59 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 05:02:04 good day 05:03:01 hba [~hba@189.130.178.126] has joined #lisp 05:03:27 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:04:21 peccu1 [~peccu@ZU205167.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:05:04 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 05:06:19 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-61-74.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:29 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:11:52 chenbing [~user@60.186.111.197] has joined #lisp 05:12:20 1 05:12:28 tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:40 -!- tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:57 pkhuong: http://paste.lisp.org/+2PRA Is this how it works? 05:18:05 Well, cl:dotimes doesn't take a place, but a variable... 05:18:12 tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:26 Bike: I don't see why the recursion depth should be specified in advance. 05:18:29 yeah, that's what I meant with the "magic dotimes" bit. 05:18:35 Just use a recursive function. 05:18:56 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:11 it's just a nicer way to implement (labels ((rec (...) (dotimes ... (rec ...)))) (rec ...)) 05:19:46 okay. I see. Thanks. 05:20:43 -!- tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:23:13 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:25:09 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:38 Guest79775 [~como@50.12.34.87] has joined #lisp 05:30:20 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129036181.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:25 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 05:35:53 U 05:36:06 -!- duomo [~duomo@120-dcmp11.goeaston.net] has left #lisp 05:36:10 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:40:26 -!- SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:41:35 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:41:51 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:46 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 05:46:02 ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:36 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:55 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:12:43 -!- JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:59 -!- gaidal [cosmo@61.144.107.101] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:17:35 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18:30 JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 06:23:19 quek| [~quek@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 06:23:20 -!- quek [~quek@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:34 -!- quek| [~quek@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:33:30 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:34:02 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:44 -!- Guest79775 [~como@50.12.34.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:35:02 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 06:36:13 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81A7D0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:37:15 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:10 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 06:43:07 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:50:25 am0c [~am0c@58.227.209.54] has joined #lisp 06:53:06 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.168.137] has joined #lisp 06:53:24 vjacob [~vjacob@87.61.170.233] has joined #lisp 06:58:49 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:00:15 ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:58 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 07:03:31 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:07:10 -!- cwardell [~cwardell@pool-108-5-120-252.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: cwardell] 07:09:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:14:56 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:10 bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:15:51 aliao [~user@115.50.19.2] has joined #lisp 07:17:08 -!- aliao [~user@115.50.19.2] has left #lisp 07:19:59 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 07:21:36 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 07:22:52 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 07:25:09 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:25:47 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 07:30:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:31:03 zmyrgel [~user@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe91fa00-218.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:31:33 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.168.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46:17 if i setf the value of a slot of an object to another object, is that slot a reference to that object or a copy? 07:47:49 to that object 07:48:32 CL is call-by-sharing 07:50:24 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:25 okay, i don't know exactly what that means, but thanks 07:51:35 CL is call by value, where values are object references. 07:51:44 Similar to java, etc. 07:51:49 ah 07:52:02 call-by-value is ambiguous 07:52:02 Except that java complicates things by having primitives, due to ... um, brain damage or something. 07:52:06 -!- elliottcable is now known as coob 07:52:34 call-by-value means that variables are not passed -- just their values. 07:53:22 The question is, can (foo a), given that foo is a function, and a is a local variable, affect the value of a by reassigning the parameter that it received it with? 07:53:30 The answer is "no". 07:54:55 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 07:56:00 but when value can be a reference it gets ambiguous 07:56:27 that's why i don't like call-by-value/call-by-reference terms 07:57:06 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 07:57:36 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:21 It's about the _variable_. 07:58:40 How the value is implemented doesn't matter -- the question is how is the variable passed? 07:59:15 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 08:00:29 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:44 yes, that's clear, but that there can be two kinds of references is confusing 08:01:49 But there aren't -- in one case we're passing the variable by reference (and reference isn't a thing here), in the second we're passing an object reference as a value (and here it is a thing). 08:02:04 But it is an unfortunate collision of terminology. 08:03:09 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:05:52 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:30 -!- mlkith [~mlkith@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 08:07:06 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:41 Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:05 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 08:12:37 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-61-74.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12:47 -!- JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:26 JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 08:18:44 maybe a place is passed? 08:19:24 for call-by-value maybe create a new place to [pass 08:19:50 no, places is a different thing, in CL 08:20:24 i am thinking of a place like the car of a cons 08:20:41 or a symbol shadowed value 08:20:49 symbol's 08:21:26 well shadowed or not i suppose just a symbol's value 08:23:34 i am just thinking of when implmenting a lisp and one wishes to pass in something creating a {void* setf,void* getf} 08:26:18 for the function call to have two methods for either setting or getting the value 08:27:09 situ [~quassel@118.102.200.42] has joined #lisp 08:28:17 i just fantisize the usefullness of sending in the car or cdr place of a cons.. instead of the cons itself 08:30:00 don't forget to fantasize about complications and confusions it brings 08:33:53 i wonder what the notation would be.. (foo *bar*) == would be like (foo (symbol-value *bar*)) 08:34:48 (foo-by-ref (symbol-value *bar*)) 08:35:02 (foo-by-ref (cdr bar)) 08:35:12 do you know about locatives? 08:35:32 i love the concept of locatives!.. but no lisps i can find uses them anymore :( 08:35:49 i dont know enough about them though 08:36:11 why do you love it? 08:36:26 i merged a while ago a prolog interpretor and very old ecl 08:37:17 i wanted the ability to use prolog like vaqriables somehow 08:37:39 locatives seemed the closest thing 08:37:49 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@87.61.170.233] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:38:22 what problems do they solve? 08:38:52 (symbol-value *bar*) could become a prolog variable .. but implemnted in a global symbol 08:39:31 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:39:37 the undo value (prolog's undo) could be set in the trail to make up a unwind 08:40:12 well locative i guess doesnt solve many problems .. but actually create more 08:40:42 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.178.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:41:17 locatives did solve issues for my program though.. by giving me an object that fit both worlds 08:41:44 creates more problems when implementing lisp i'd assume 08:42:21 but i was thinking locatives solve the problem of a call-by-ref vs call-by-value 08:42:48 is there such a problem? 08:43:38 not really a problem but a call-by-ref could be made to not use any local stack 08:43:43 -!- bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:44:15 where a call-by-value argument needs some reserved stack area 08:45:37 where would you pass it instead? through ether? 08:46:16 the function itself gets a locative refernce in all cases 08:46:39 call-by-value doesn't need to reserved stack area. 08:46:58 Pass them in registers, and spill as required. 08:47:30 call-by-value's caller i suppoise makes room for the cvalue.. puts the value in there.. and passes the reference to the place it put it 08:48:13 Or, passes them by register, and spills as required. 08:49:28 ok the registers thing makes sense 08:49:30 dmiles_afk: call by value just passes the value (through stack or registers) 08:50:19 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:52:31 in call-by-ref do you pass a place (locative) or do you pass the source form (like a macro) 08:55:41 *dmiles_afk* reads scrollback and realized call-by-ref might just be his fantasy now 08:56:11 C++ has call-by-reference 08:56:18 In call-by-ref, the key point is the variable is passed. 08:56:46 e.g., (defun foo (a) (setf a 10)) (foo b) implies that b is now 10. 08:57:24 (because foo operates on the variable b that you passed) 08:58:46 dehun [~user@djgames.com.ua] has joined #lisp 08:59:19 so also if b had a special getter/setter macro that would have gotten the 10 09:01:14 do any lisps do this? 09:07:09 *dmiles_afk* naps for a few hours but will read back 09:07:49 do any lisps do this? = Zhivago's example 09:08:23 -!- situ [~quassel@118.102.200.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:26 -!- dehun [~user@djgames.com.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:24 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:53 dmiles_afk: doubt it 09:12:05 -!- ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12:06 dmiles_afk: you can replicate it with macros though 09:12:25 and the earlier "fexpr" system could also do it 09:12:42 But it's not used anymore 09:13:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-93.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 09:16:32 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189733.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:24:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:26:50 -!- JuniorRoy [~JuniorRoy@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: JuniorRoy] 09:27:31 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 09:30:07 kpreid [~kpreid@72-255-60-201.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:04 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:32:36 slash_ [~unknown@p54A8E61E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:50 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:47 holycow [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:52 hi guys 09:35:38 when you install something like cells-gtk3, is there a way to find out 'what' is available to play with via quicklisp/lisp interfaces before opening up some code? 09:35:59 typically packages come with examples, i'm curious how one discovers what might be available once everything is loaded up 09:38:11 slash_1 [~unknown@p54B86CF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:08 (apropos 'cells)? 09:39:11 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54A8E61E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:39:41 ah there we go. thank you 09:39:43 -!- waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:40:58 if you figure it out, please paste some sample code... 09:42:19 heh 09:43:33 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:56 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:49:46 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:50:17 -!- EyesIsChristmas [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:54:17 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p54B86CF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:58:47 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:09:17 hey eMBee , morning guys 10:10:45 ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:00 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:29 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 10:17:10 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189733.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:33 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:59 linmin_ [~linmin@180.168.30.174] has joined #lisp 10:25:59 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189733.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 10:28:05 Drakken [~dan@ppp-70-225-172-176.dsl.chmpil.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:53 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:30:14 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:38 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.207.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:33 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:56 daniel [~daniel@p508295F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:38 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-160-249.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:33 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p50829CAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46:32 is there a way to force quit a lisp application that i run through slime without force quiting slime ? 10:47:56 well that's confused 10:48:03 what's quitting a Lisp application for you? 10:48:22 and what are you using right now? 10:48:45 Are you using ,sayonaara? (which will quit the inferior Common Lisp and "quit" all Slime related buffers) 10:49:07 in that case, you might be looking for ,quit (which will just quit the inferior Lisp but will leave all slime buffers untouched) 10:51:10 what's the point in keeping slime around if the process it was attached to is killed? 10:53:19 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:53:25 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:43 kennyd: you might have multiple connections or connect to a new one 11:00:22 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp121-45-88-67.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:02:01 i am getting some very strange behaviour with lispbuilder-sdl 11:02:29 first when i quickload lispbuilder-sdl-examples and then bezier 11:03:05 i get a window with no minimise exit restore buttons , second the app should exit on esc key and it does not 11:04:04 and another weird thing is when i quickload lispbuilder-sdl dx86c64cl is loaded and is kept open, I assume its the clozure intepreter 11:04:14 the question is why it opens and it remains active 11:04:40 -!- holycow [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:05:36 hi 11:05:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.37] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 11:06:42 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:45 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 11:09:44 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:10:59 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.254.37] has joined #lisp 11:11:00 hello lispers :) 11:12:08 Does cl.net have a doc page somehwere for project members to ftp into their project? 11:12:39 I haven't logged in for a couple years, so I forgot how :( 11:19:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:52 waaswolf [~waaswolf@78-20-236-54.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 11:25:28 -!- waaswolf [~waaswolf@78-20-236-54.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 11:25:40 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-208-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:28:48 slash_ [~unknown@p54B86CF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:37 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:32:32 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.40.254] has joined #lisp 11:35:11 tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:36:09 Hey. 11:38:35 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:40 X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1400:b::b793] has joined #lisp 11:42:09 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:17 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:42:44 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:42:44 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 11:43:06 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:49 Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE902FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:13 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:45:38 tic: toc 11:46:18 Posterdati, as the time goes on. 11:48:26 Hehehe, you must get that all the time. :P 11:48:29 sylecn [~sylecn@207.7.149.39] has joined #lisp 11:48:33 tic: it depends on your speed 11:48:57 slash_, what makes you think that... 11:49:15 Just figured. 11:54:45 Guthur [~user@host86-168-2-140.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:39 dehun [~user@djgames.com.ua] has joined #lisp 11:57:52 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-78-173.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:57:52 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-78-173.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:08 are there any good way to fast developing of gui applications on lisp? 12:04:40 dehun: CAPI seems likely 12:06:43 Xach: will it work under linux? 12:09:57 dehun: yes. but that seems odd - what kind of application are you going to make? 12:09:59 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:20 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:28 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:52 Xach: i just a newbie in lisp. and it is interesting for me what lib is usually used for gui. for example - if I want to make a crossplatform chess game? 12:15:41 Xach: i am looking now at commonqt and another qt bindings. is this is a good choice? 12:15:57 pnq [~nick@ACA2A2EB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:12 -!- zmyrgel [~user@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe91fa00-218.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:16:27 commonqt is a good choice 12:16:55 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:18:00 thanks =) I will try it 12:23:34 -!- am0c [~am0c@58.227.209.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:17 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:29:29 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:31:17 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189733.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:33:44 zardoz8 [~zardoz8@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 12:33:56 hello 12:34:41 when typing a function that takes a lot of arguments how can I have slime echo lambda list in more than one line? 12:34:52 (setq max-mini-window-height 4) didn't make any difference 12:35:01 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-187112.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:35:29 zardoz8: http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/10887294446/viewing-large-arglists 12:35:52 thanks 12:35:53 nialo_y [~nialo@c-24-128-98-55.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:37:04 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE902FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:38:09 zardoz8: if you are not in need of many of the standard GUI widgets, you could possible get away with just using something like lispbuilder-sdl 12:38:39 i think that's for dehun 12:38:58 oh yes indeed 12:39:07 -!- nialo [~nialo@c-24-128-98-55.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:39:12 I'd recommend dhtml :) 12:39:40 no Lisp on the client side though. 12:41:05 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:42:26 Don't need it. Just render dhtml such that it sends messages back down a websocket upon an action. 12:42:37 Like X11, but done properly. 12:45:05 osa1 [~sinan@78.173.255.184] has joined #lisp 12:46:27 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 12:46:46 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:35 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:44 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 12:48:53 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:09 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2A2EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52:47 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.29.2] has joined #lisp 12:54:52 pnq [~nick@ACA2A2EB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:39 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:57:45 Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE902FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:38 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2A2EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:59 pnq [~nick@ACA2A2EB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:36 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.46] has joined #lisp 13:09:11 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:10:17 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 13:14:29 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2A2EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:14:51 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54B86CF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:25 pnq [~nick@ACA2A2EB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:22 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:20:23 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 13:21:41 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:26:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@72-255-60-201.client.stsn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:16 kpreid [~kpreid@72-255-109-234.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:32 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 13:30:36 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:59 zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.16.73] has joined #lisp 13:34:29 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2A2EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:56 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.173.255.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:58 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:37:25 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2318.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:38:17 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:38:55 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:39:10 ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:39:30 Why are some packages defined with a hash (#) in the beginning of the name? 13:42:59 to save space 13:47:28 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 13:48:00 ejbs: that, and to prevent the package name symbol to be interned in the wrong package, yes? 13:48:17 Or that's for the exported symbols actually... 13:48:17 keywords do that job 13:48:24 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:49:08 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:18 pnq [~nick@ACA34C2F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:35 stassats`: How does that save space? 13:49:45 ejbs: the symbols are not interned 13:49:56 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:51:14 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:52:49 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:53:52 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 13:55:07 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:57:01 Oh lovely 13:57:07 anyone good with CFFI here? 13:58:55 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:03 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@207.7.149.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:40 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:53 cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 14:06:19 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:07:50 -!- ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:08:23 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:19 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:34 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:19:30 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:52 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 14:21:41 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:56 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:24:21 davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:04 urandom__ [~user@p548A56E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:33 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:25:55 -!- nialo_y is now known as nialo`` 14:28:18 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA34C2F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:35 ikki [~ikki@189.247.130.170] has joined #lisp 14:36:13 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:48 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:37:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:37:44 i'd do it for 100 mil 14:38:28 what ? 14:38:32 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:39:06 work in Wallstreet 14:39:22 oh 14:39:40 they use a lot of lisp there 14:39:53 heh 14:43:54 i am using stumpwm, and do a (define-frame-preference "Default" (1 t t :class "Emacs")) 14:44:05 pnq [~nick@172.129.25.221] has joined #lisp 14:44:29 however emacs is switching to frame 0, how should i got about it to troubleshoot? 14:44:34 velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:45:41 oh i found out the culprit.... 14:46:04 it's not stumpwm, it's emacs setting geometry 14:46:09 sorry for the noise 14:49:14 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A56E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:56 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:50:47 eutopia [~eutopia@202.101.100.100] has joined #lisp 14:52:04 -!- eutopia [~eutopia@202.101.100.100] has left #lisp 14:52:13 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:52:49 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:26 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:38 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:29 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:52 still getting error with quickloading "cocoahelper" 14:57:06 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:58:22 and it seems i am not the only one --> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.quicklisp/54 14:58:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:55 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.25.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:00:16 is there a way to tell stumpwm that all windows should go to frame 1 15:06:37 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 15:07:14 -!- zardoz8 [~zardoz8@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 15:07:44 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:55 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-63-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:08 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856a53.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:46 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-152-91.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:14:01 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:28 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-187112.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:15:41 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:29 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:13 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-318780.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:21:06 benny [~benny@i577A2C06.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:27 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-233-56.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:22:09 -!- davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:34 pnq [~nick@172.129.63.204] has joined #lisp 15:23:34 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-49-216.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:30 Anyone here familiar with the connection pool behaviour of clsql? 15:26:50 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE902FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:30:04 -!- whr [~user@89-73-66-87.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:35:57 ejbs` [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:36:40 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-318780.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:28 ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:29 -!- ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41:28 Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has joined #lisp 15:43:01 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-233-56.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:49:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-49-216.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 15:51:32 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:52:05 Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:21 What's the trick, SBCL/Slime, to get other threads printing to the REPL? 15:52:32 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-233-56.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:52:47 it used to be swank:*globally-redirect-io* 15:53:34 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:54:51 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 15:55:21 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 15:55:36 Modius: I haven't been able to make that work nicely, but I do (defvar *out* *standard-output*) in my repl, and then use (format *out*. 15:55:44 it's very ugly, tedious, error prone, but it works 15:58:49 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-233-56.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:01:17 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:06 am0c [~am0c@58.227.209.54] has joined #lisp 16:08:04 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:08:07 is there any unknown (to me) benefit or side effect of having a defun instead of a defmethod, especially if this function/method is specifically meant to operate on a class defined in the same file? 16:08:38 IOW: could there be any implementation information leakage if I changed a defun to be a defmethod in a library? 16:09:14 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:23 The defun will be slightly faster. It will probably warn if overridden elsewhere. 16:09:37 Shaftoe: not unless someone was explicitly looking for it. 16:09:39 The defun, by default, won't tend to be compiled. 16:09:46 Modius: uh? 16:09:49 Although with the file compiling 16:10:09 nvm, reference to how defmethods in the implementation I was using seemed to automatically get compiled, the defun stayed interpreted - moot in sBCL 16:11:19 mathrick_ [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 16:11:23 Modius: that's entirely implementation dependent; I don't see a reason to believe one is more common than the other. 16:11:46 so that someone would have interspersed defun's with defmethod's can only be interpreted as general style laziness? 16:12:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@72-255-109-234.client.stsn.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:12:21 Shaftoe: I don't follow. 16:13:38 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:13:43 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:14:55 Shaftoe: Use generic function when you need dispatch, or when auxiliary methods are sensible. 16:15:42 pkhuong: I want to modify the class conn-pool in clsql. I'd normally just specialize a method and create a derivative class without modifying clsql libraries at all. 16:15:44 or when a bunch of generic functions can form some kind of protocol 16:15:57 otherwise use defun 16:15:58 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:16:00 pkhuong: but to my dismay, the method I want to modify is a defun. 16:16:10 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 16:16:15 As a rule of thumb, use the simpler, more specific way. 16:16:23 (which means I can't :around or :after on it) 16:16:36 tcr: I'm not writing the library. I'm trying to modify one. 16:16:53 Shaftoe: the library's author didn't mean for that behaviour to be extended. Maybe there's a reason. You could ask them. 16:16:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:17:11 I'm gonna have to, yes. 16:17:18 If you are lucky, you can specialize on a generic function that's higher up the call chain 16:17:34 tcr: I don't think I'm lucky, unfortunately. 16:18:04 the specfic problem I cace is that a connection to MSSQL needs to get "SET TEXTSIZE xxx" run on it at the beginning of the connection. 16:18:21 if you must, you can monkey patch a generic function in the regular function's stead. 16:18:23 I need to be able to control how pool allocations work (unless I want to run that command on every query I make) 16:18:24 Well if it comes to it, you can probably just redefine the function 16:18:52 Asking, then moving on, seems like a good strategy 16:18:58 yeah, that's the worst case scenario that I'm seeing, along side a patch recommendation to Kevin. 16:20:17 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-63-87.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:20:21 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:24 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-233-56.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:21:44 The respective brain areas have been underutilized for too long; what is the precise terminology for what generic functions provide? class-based method dispatch? Some kind of polymorphism? 16:22:14 multiple (class-based) dispatch? 16:22:21 what about eql? 16:22:34 multi-methods, I thought, no? 16:22:35 What's polymorphism then? 16:22:36 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 16:23:29 tcr: polymorphism means that you can supply an instance of class B, in which B is a subclass of A, where an istance of class A was expected. and the whole thing will not say boom. methods handle that :) 16:23:31 i guess polymorphism makes sense only in statically typed languages 16:23:34 tcr: multimethods IsA polymorphism? is a good reference. 16:23:56 (fwiw: gigamonkeys defines it as multimethods) 16:24:06 stassats: no. You might be thinking of overloading. 16:24:26 stassats: no, statically typed languages use it to verify that it will not say boom by default. though obviously, if you want to break it, you can. Liskov was one of the people that formalized rules about it (trivial, but nice) 16:24:53 tcr: * ad-hoc or real polymorphism, depending on the crowd you're talking with ;) 16:25:25 pkhuong: aren't they related? 16:25:51 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.207.110] has joined #lisp 16:26:12 either way, i feel like both terms aren't really necessary in CL 16:27:06 stassats: which they? overloading and polymorphism? Overloading is a way to implement early-bound polymorphism. 16:27:06 stassats: maybe, but who would want to read a ppm without using opitcl? :) 16:27:53 rollyholer [~chatzilla@c-75-72-213-208.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:10 -!- rollyholer [~chatzilla@c-75-72-213-208.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:57 slyrus: i'm not planning on using either, so i don't know 16:28:59 pkhuong: yeah 16:29:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:29:24 well, i guess overloading and polymorphism are useful when comparing CL with different languages 16:29:57 stassats: count the number of people who'd like generic functions to also dispatch on arity. That'd be overloading. 16:30:43 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:32:13 that's easy to make, just write a defmethod macro which would create methods for generic-function-1 ... generic-function-x, where x is arity 16:32:37 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:51 and generic-function will call the appropriate method 16:33:02 the appropriate function, that is 16:33:15 stassats: it's still overloading. 16:33:47 i wasn't arguing about that, i was thinking of a solution to people who want this 16:35:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-233-56.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:37:51 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:56 hah. Funny thing I just noticed: the connections are reset each time they're taken from the pool. which means all of my dreams and designs are in vain. I need to issue my set textsize each time anyways 16:39:03 c2.com is a like a web forum with no quoting functionality 16:39:17 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:38 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:39:43 and funny titles 16:42:02 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:00 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:46:29 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:58 -!- kwmiebach_ [kwmiebach@31-222-138-133.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:48:29 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:49:43 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 16:50:00 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:51:05 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC 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[~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 18:07:02 hi 18:07:15 -!- alexzin [~Alexey@ppp85-141-174-96.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has left #lisp 18:07:15 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:12 epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-0733.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:10:28 hello 18:11:08 it seems lispbuilder-sdl is a fail for my macs, time to test another library 18:11:46 Or to debug and contribute a patch and be lisp hero of the day! 18:11:46 lol 18:12:00 did you try testing sdl alone ? 18:12:08 does it work ? 18:12:20 pjb: sure but the beauty of it , is that it does not tell me what is wrong 18:12:40 well i know that for some reason it cant load cocoahelper 18:12:42 simple as some lib version mismatch ? 18:12:50 kilon_alios: That's when you start debugging. 18:13:31 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 18:13:33 no problemo debugging it, but i cant do it alone fast, cause I am not experienced with lisp , quicklisp and debugger 18:13:34 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:06 and I did try to make sense of it as much I can, but its way beyond my current level of understanding 18:14:19 That's tackling such tasks that you become experienced. 18:14:21 tried ccl and sdl, both had diffirent problems with it 18:14:51 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:15:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:15:19 kilon_alios: I've had trouble with lispbuilder-sdl and cocoahelper. Have compiled cocoahelper for your system? 18:15:25 tried browsing the code , found nothing wrong with, tried to search with google for problem with cocoahelper, it seems its a problematic lib that recently supposedly got fixed 18:15:44 yes Kenjin I have made cocoahelper 18:15:51 i had even made sdl source 18:15:58 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:16:04 make +make install 18:16:22 i had some warning with cocoahelper though 18:17:14 kilon_alios: my issue was architecture related. I had sbcl compiled for 64bit and cocoahelper for 23bit 18:17:17 *32bit 18:18:13 well this is the warning i have 18:18:14 http://pastebin.com/KYMeLFfi 18:18:23 bare in mind , i am clueless with building things 18:18:58 though I am a regular blender builder for linux 18:19:15 kilon_alios: I believe the warning is harmless. Don't think thats the cause of your trouble 18:19:38 from the warning its clear that setapplemenu is not found, i heard that apple removed it 18:20:18 i am no so sure Kenjin , with ccl i was getting windows with no close button and not apple menu 18:20:29 with sbcl i cant even get the libraries to load 18:20:51 with ccl there is no response to key events too 18:21:19 another macos user i talked in here, does not have these problems 18:22:19 so i dont think i can solve this anytime soon unless i do some serious reading on lisp FFIs and C/C++ compilers 18:23:26 i think that probably it cannot find the libraries 18:24:32 kilon_alios: what does "file cocoahelper.dylib" output? 18:24:46 Kenjin: what you mean ? 18:25:19 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:26 the debugger complains that system not found 18:25:46 kilon_alios: you have built cocoahelper successfully right? 18:26:39 well i dont like saying big things, but i want to cocahelper's folder, inside quicklisp folder and issues a make command 18:26:46 according to website instructions 18:26:49 right 18:27:03 and i got the message i linked above 18:27:04 you should have a cocoahelper.dylib then 18:27:08 i do have it 18:27:22 and the object file 18:27:28 could you please run "file cocoahelper.dylib" and see what is the output? 18:28:00 cocoahelper.dylib: Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library x86_64 18:28:14 and your sbcl executable? 18:28:14 seems ok 18:28:24 one sec 18:28:48 -!- bubo [~bubo@178-191-75-24.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:03 sbcl: Mach-O executable i386 18:29:12 hmm that means 32 bit ? 18:29:33 yeah 18:29:42 brilliant 18:29:43 kilon_alios: that is probably the issue 18:29:53 how have you built sbcl? 18:30:06 again following the instructions 18:30:13 I use homebrew 18:30:21 wait, did i build it? 18:30:45 It should build sbcl correctly for your arch 18:31:01 well what i did was home=/application/sbcl sh sbcl-install.sh 18:31:10 or something very similar to this 18:31:27 and then i did 18:31:47 home=/usr/local sh sbcl-install.sh 18:32:02 cause it complained it could not find sbcl in usr/local 18:32:09 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:13 HOME=... 18:32:22 shell variables are case sensitive. 18:32:47 yeah that one 18:33:04 it's SBCL_HOME or INSTALL_ROOT. 18:33:20 it was a copy paste from the install file instructions let me check 18:33:53 ok here it is 18:33:55 INSTALL_ROOT=/usr/local sh install.sh 18:34:13 so it was not home , my bad 18:34:39 so the above is the one i used , copy paste, from install instruction file 18:35:34 anyone knows how i can force sbcl to install for 64 bit ? 18:36:08 by downloading a 64-bit version 18:36:09 kilon_alios: SBCL_ARCH=x86-64 sh make.sh 18:37:03 Or stassats's suggestion if you don't need to build the bleeding edge yourself. homebrew handles all that very nicely. 18:37:30 does darwin have threads enabled by default nowadays? 18:37:31 ASau [~user@95-26-97-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:37:35 ok in the website its says only AMD64 18:37:50 which website? 18:38:04 my macs has intel processors, so i assumed that that was for hackintos and not real macs 18:38:05 kilon_alios: I see x86, amd64 and ppc here. 18:38:06 sbcl website 18:38:10 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 18:38:13 pkhuong: exactly 18:38:19 so where is 64 bit for macs 18:38:19 kilon_alios: intel 64 are an implementation of amd64. 18:38:35 kilon_alios: AMD64 column 18:38:47 ok , well i did not know amd and intel is the same thing 18:39:03 You could even read the legend : "AMD64: 64-bit X86 (AMD64, EM64T, Via Nano)" 18:39:09 downloading 18:39:11 thank you 18:39:23 intel made an incompatible 64-bit architecture, amd made one that was compatible to 32-bit x86 18:39:34 so the amd one stuck, and it's called amd64 in general 18:39:39 if it doesn't heave threads enabled, you'd need to build one yourself if you need them 18:40:09 oh .... i see, very strange ! thanks for that knoweldge 18:40:33 it's also called x86-64 18:41:00 yeah i know that one, did not know the amd thing 18:41:00 right, to remove the vendor-specific name from the classification 18:41:50 ok, lispbuilder-sdl is impressive 18:41:52 stassats: yeas i care about threads and multicore support 18:42:06 the last sdl library I used, I had to do a ton of this stuff by hand 18:42:09 dlowe: what are you using it for? 18:43:16 by the way ccl also had problems with cocoahelper and yes i am using the 64 bit intepreter 18:43:17 kilon_alios: if you're trying to use sdl, it might be simpler to stick to single threaded for now. 18:43:24 Fade: nothing atm. I was thinking about porting my ruby/C 3d game engine over, but it looks like a lot of the work has been done 18:43:44 kilon_alios: ccl is not an interpreter, but a compiler 18:43:56 :( 18:44:16 one day i will figure it out, that compiler intepreter things confuses me 18:44:18 or rather, an implementation 18:44:22 sweet 18:44:29 the best way to refer to it is "implementation" 18:44:34 -!- velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 18:44:45 because some have both, an interpreter and a compiler 18:44:46 stassats: agreed , i should have said implementation 18:45:16 and i think the majority does, CCL is one of the few which is compiler-only 18:45:43 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:45 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:46:10 kilon_alios: compilers translate one type of code to another. interpreters execute code by repeated inspection 18:47:18 dlowe: i knows what a compiler an intepreter is , i dont know however where inside lisp one things start and the other ends 18:47:45 hmm i get errors 18:47:49 when i open emacs 18:48:04 Error opening /dev/tty: Device not configured 18:48:04 Welcome to LDB, a low-level debugger for the Lisp runtime environment. 18:48:05 ldb> unknown command: ``(progn'' 18:49:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.39.195] has joined #lisp 18:49:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.39.195] has quit [Changing host] 18:49:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:49:28 can you start sbcl from the command line? 18:49:33 it probably can't find the core 18:49:51 stassats: I don't think that lands in ldb anymore. 18:50:19 or the right core 18:50:28 pkhuong: it does for me, at least for the wrong core 18:50:30 stassats: yeap it runs ok 18:50:45 it stranger because the paths are the same 18:50:47 stassats: wrong core does, you're right. 18:51:23 kilon_alios: are you using a graphical emacs or in the terminal? 18:51:35 graphical 18:51:48 kilon_alios: can you provide the actual error message? 18:51:52 not the last two lines 18:52:00 ro four 18:52:13 fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 828: 18:52:13 unknown core file entry: 0x0 18:52:14 and paste it in on lisppaste. 18:52:37 ok will paste all of it in lisppaste 18:53:16 paste your .emacs as well 18:53:37 the unix environment between shell and graphical emacs differs. 18:53:58 stassats: http://pastebin.com/1cVAArJa 18:54:12 eeeh i use a .emacs.d folder 18:54:20 pkhuong: slime can augment the environment for starting the lisp 18:54:23 so there many elisp files triggered 18:54:32 kilon_alios: the one with slime configuration 18:54:49 stassats: good, I'll let you handle this one the right way (: 18:55:17 stassats: http://pastebin.com/YuLTRAZm 18:55:20 pkhuong: and provide --core as well 18:55:35 stassats: that's what I do. 18:55:35 oh shit 18:55:39 wrong path 18:55:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:56:27 fixed it 18:56:29 works ok now 18:56:40 pkhuong: i do both, setting SBCL_HOME for contribs 18:56:48 sorry for stupid mistake, i forgot that at first i have sbcl installed in applications folder 18:56:54 *had 18:57:19 kilon_alios: let the hacking commence! 18:57:37 :) 18:59:10 xpololz [~xpol@50.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:54 IT WORKED 19:00:16 the windows draws minimise restore and close buttons properly 19:00:21 and it closes normally 19:00:26 at last! 19:00:32 thanks guys 19:01:11 wow, yeah and wow. Even the esc key works and exit the programm, phenomenal , i am a happy man now, at last i can start coding 19:04:57 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:32 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:09:30 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:09:32 make some hot new code, and it will all have been worth it. :) 19:10:43 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:48 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:50 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:16 somebody stop me ;D 19:12:20 ? 19:12:28 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 19:13:33 and lispbuilder comes with tons of examples, lovely, lol i just tried to autocomplete in my irc clinet, man , slime will spoil me heavily :D 19:13:48 kilon: check out erc 19:13:59 src ? 19:14:05 erc? what is that ? 19:14:06 emacs irc client 19:14:13 Comes with emacs 19:14:17 oh i have, really nice 19:14:27 but i dont use it cause i am abit noobish yet with emacs 19:14:44 does it autocomplete words ? 19:14:45 -!- epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-0733.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:54 Sort of: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DynamicAbbreviations 19:15:07 Emacs in general has a bunch of completion utilities 19:15:26 Some are semantic others just cycle through stems 19:15:56 kilon: cocoahelper loading fine? 19:16:05 That's still broken for you?! 19:16:09 I thought we had fixed that 19:16:28 Kenjin: yeap smooth as baby's but :D 19:16:36 all my problems have been solved 19:16:42 now enjoying the sdl exampler 19:16:46 *examples 19:17:02 Turn on OpenGL yet and try kicking the tires? 19:17:18 sbryant: (ql:qucikload "cl-opengl") ? 19:17:22 Yep 19:17:55 kilon: awsome. :) 19:18:46 sbryant: do i need anything else beside (ql:quickload "lispbuilder-sdl-examples")? 19:19:03 For opengl? 19:19:13 yeap 19:19:34 ok found it 19:19:34 Okay, so SDL is going to be useful from a context point of view. 19:20:20 You can use SDL to do blit offscreen surfaces in SDL and use that a texture over a quad or something like that if you want 19:20:31 but you can't really mix SDL primitives and OpenGL 19:20:54 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-125-222.w86-220.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 19:20:59 It's mainly useful for handling other things though, like sound, input and image loading 19:21:10 well i tried to load "lispbuilder-opengl-examples" 19:21:23 Evaluation aborted on #. 19:21:34 sbryant: i want to use sdl especially for opengl 19:22:02 you mean i have to choose whether i draw screen with sdl or opengl ? 19:22:05 when you create your window, turn opengl on 19:22:12 that'll create a managed context for that window 19:22:19 ok 19:22:19 and then you can just use cl-opengl 19:22:33 that my plan, to use sdl for anything that opengl cannot handle 19:22:41 just remember to call gl:flush before sdl update window 19:22:44 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-93.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:27 sure, i plan to divide deep inside documentation and figure everything out at my own pace 19:23:34 *divide = dive 19:24:17 Ah cool 19:24:41 Feel free to use anything in that project I linked to yesterday 19:24:48 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:56 Now with an edgewalker! 19:25:59 emacs-dwim [~user@cpe-67-249-179-243.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:29 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:41 davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:32 sbryant: absolutely, all code is welcomed. And anything i use, will give you full credit 19:39:56 -!- nialo`` [~nialo@c-24-128-98-55.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:44 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:56 Guthur` [~user@host86-148-186-247.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:49 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-168-2-140.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:17 -!- ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:04:20 -!- bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:01 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:34 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:04 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:57 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:29 how can you edit a function definition so that the debugger will trigger at a certain point so that you can analyze the frame? 20:12:44 tensorpudding: (break), I think 20:12:51 i saw (break) 20:12:57 never used it myself 20:13:13 i'm not sure 20:13:23 i couldn't see anything using it 20:13:25 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:47 davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has joined #lisp 20:13:54 i put it inside of a loop, and the frames that appeared in the debugger didn't include any useful information at all 20:13:57 tensorpudding: just tried it 20:14:01 no locals, nothing 20:14:05 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:14:30 i put it in a LET and it claimed the variable i bound in LET was unbound 20:14:42 when i evaled in frame 20:14:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp121-45-88-67.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:16 tensorpudding: maybe step? 20:15:22 step? 20:15:32 as in, instead of BREAK, do STEP? 20:15:36 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_step.htm 20:15:50 Maybe change the declarations? 20:16:07 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-152-91.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:08 tensorpudding: correct 20:16:22 oh 20:16:27 That should give you a stepping debugger so you can step in and out of frames examining state as you go? 20:16:28 you wrap the thing in STEP? 20:16:31 Yep 20:17:56 wrap your function call in the repl 20:17:57 wrapping forms is a pain in paredit 20:18:03 no it's not 20:18:07 it's simple! 20:18:11 how? 20:18:23 You know about the sexp raising and lowering? 20:18:27 no 20:18:30 i'm using M-) 20:18:44 http://www.emacswiki.org/pics/static/PareditCheatsheet.png 20:19:01 So C-left and C-right from inside the paren yo uwant to grow / shrink is what you want 20:19:02 -!- iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:19:13 tensorpudding: also, the amount of information provided by the debugger varies with the debug level and other optimization settings. In a function with (declare (optimize (debug 3) (speed 0)) usually a lot more information is visible. 20:19:27 and it'll gobble up siblings 20:19:58 break is fine usually, but it is rarely found in production code for obvious reasons. 20:20:35 the STEP goes around function invocation or definition? 20:20:43 invocation 20:20:50 You can just try it in the repl 20:21:25 step-next and step-into seem to just do the function call, they don't step through it 20:21:32 Oh my mistake 20:23:15 put it inside of your definition 20:23:25 That worked for me 20:23:28 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.29.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:23:37 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:55 STEP still gives me nothing 20:29:20 Can i see your code? 20:29:54 do i need to explicitly say "provide info for debugging this function" somewhere 20:31:30 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:25 paste.lisp.org ate my paste 20:33:09 You might want to declaim or declare can't remember which one 20:33:39 declare it looks like 20:33:44 aliasxerog [~aliasxero@plns-64-111-157-190-pppoe.dsl.plns.epix.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:13 oh, it accepted it 20:34:23 why the flaming hell does it redirect you to a completely blank page 20:34:25 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:25 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:34:25 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:34:35 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:35:39 No idea 20:36:07 Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has joined #lisp 20:36:46 i don't know what you mean by declare 20:36:51 -!- aliasxerog [~aliasxero@plns-64-111-157-190-pppoe.dsl.plns.epix.net] has left #lisp 20:37:26 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/CLHS/Body/d_optimi.htm 20:37:38 You can tell the compiler to pile on the debug in 20:38:08 is there a way to make a sbcl that doesn't depend of /lib/ld.so.1 explicitly, but would be ok with just having an ld.so.1 in the directory with it? 20:38:56 I'm trying to get lisp running on my router to server a page with hunchentoot, but this seems to be the sticking point, the router doesn't have a /lib/ld.so and I can't make the filesystem rw to put one there 20:40:13 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:37 okay, now i get to step through 20:40:44 but all locals i care about are unavailable 20:42:17 Did you set debug to 2? 20:44:47 i did 20:45:53 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.220.13] has joined #lisp 20:46:54 Can you show me the code? 20:47:28 I sprinkled debug into two functions one calls the other I steped through the invocation of the first into the other 20:48:45 i pasted it http://paste.lisp.org/display/126702 20:49:05 Okay one second 20:49:07 fisxoj: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./ ./sbcl 20:49:30 tensorpudding: you have to set debug to 3 20:49:38 i did 20:50:15 Ralith, that was my idea, too, but it's looking for the library only in /lib/ 20:50:24 and that's read only on the router 20:50:48 tensorpudding: what should *board* be set to? 20:50:59 *board* is a hashtable 20:51:39 the values are a certain kind of object, a slot 20:52:02 err, a spot 20:54:00 oh, adding (speed 0) helps too i guess 20:54:36 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-320152.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:54 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-320152.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:57:15 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:47 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 20:59:29 what makes it so that some information doesn't appear in the frame 20:59:35 like, the arguments to function calls 21:00:14 Sorry I don't know :-\ 21:01:04 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:09 tensorpudding: optimizations 21:02:31 even with (debug 3) (speed 0) i got very little information at all 21:02:38 the optimizer can do a better job if it is allowed to garble everything 21:02:56 tensorpudding: what is your setup? Using arch linux by chance? 21:03:01 no 21:03:28 sbcl 1.0.50.0 debian 21:03:50 Try the latest SBCL 21:04:00 Though I don't get much information either 21:04:01 tensorpudding: probably a bug that fixed in the latest release or the one before. 21:04:27 i don't particular want to upgrade 21:04:41 having to keep track of an updated version, that isn't patched by debian, could cause problems 21:05:31 tensorpudding: the only things debian patch for make it harder for others to help you (and it's disabled by default nowadays). 21:05:33 i'll just skip using the debugger and work it out with my head 21:06:43 pnq [~nick@ACA21B1B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:03 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:26 francogrex [~user@109.130.164.66] has joined #lisp 21:07:37 using debian-packaged lisp stuff is usually a recipe for trouble 21:08:03 i don't use debian packaged lisp libraries 21:08:05 just sbcl 21:08:12 sbcl is lisp stuff 21:08:12 Yeah, I installed CLISP from deb repositories 21:08:17 it won't work with SLIME 21:08:24 why are you using clisp in the first place? 21:08:26 so I just stick to SBCL 21:08:33 o 21:08:38 Oh, just to see how Unicode differs 21:08:43 *Unicode support 21:08:50 on the sbcl site it appears as if sbcl is now fully supported, but it isn't because "This is experimental prerelease support for the Windows platform" 21:08:55 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:06 -!- gffa_ is now known as gffa 21:09:08 on windows 21:12:20 well, one man's experimental prerelease is another man's release 21:12:44 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:54 I should also get CMUCL up and running 21:12:55 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:29 SBCL on Debian is usually quite up to date 21:14:42 for debian packages 21:15:13 squeeze (stable) is 1.0.40 21:15:22 not too bad imo 21:15:41 it should be set back to yellow 21:17:42 the debian package does have common-lisp-controller as a dependency though 21:17:50 I tend to use the debian package of sbcl to bootstrap a current sbcl I get from the source code repository. 21:17:50 i think the issue is nested AREFs 21:17:56 but i'm not sure 21:18:04 as long as you don't get tripped up by commonlisp controller, it works fine. 21:18:14 when i SETF the nested AREF, all the outer array elements are set to the same 21:18:46 that is, the rows are all set when i meant to only set one element 21:19:04 Fade: That tends to be my use case as well 21:19:24 I have to admit I remove the deb package after I get one from source 21:20:38 I usually keep it around, but manage my third party lisp systems with quicklisp. 21:20:45 tensorpudding: :initial-element copies references to the same value. see http://lisptips.com/post/12070678005/initialize-a-vector-with-map-into 21:20:49 so long as your path is set correctly, there's no conflict. 21:21:21 Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:03 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:25:31 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:05 pkhuong, oh, damn 21:28:09 i thought ijust made copies 21:29:48 tensorpudding: any copying in CL is explicit. 21:31:23 that's not quite true if you consider boxing as copying :-) 21:32:13 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.164.66] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:32:18 tcr: I don't (: 21:34:22 -!- coob is now known as elliottcable 21:37:52 DataLinkDroid [~David@CPE-121-212-131-12.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:38:50 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-208-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:42:34 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:43:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.130.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:44:45 ikki [~ikki@189.247.130.170] has joined #lisp 21:45:30 tcr! 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