00:00:31 Shaftoe: If you want to "hold a place in hand" just for the purpose of transforming it and putting the transformed value back, you might be interested in my upcoming MODIFY that will be an ali-baba's cavern of modify macros... 00:00:45 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 00:00:53 Example: (modify (reverse my-place)) 00:01:59 so my-place would get reversed? 00:02:08 prxq: Yes. 00:02:38 hexstream: that's exciting. I'm actually checking out with-resolved-places 00:02:43 Hexstream: what are the use cases where you see those modifyers make the most impact? 00:02:44 Equivalent to (setf my-place (reverse my-place)), except without multiple evaluation of the subforms of my-place... 00:02:44 it seems like what I Was asking about. 00:03:20 _F from on lisp is a nice execution of the same idea: (_f reverse my-place) 00:03:21 oh so it is for writing macros. 00:03:32 prxq: Well, it's much more interesting in the case of non-variable places because those are pretty simple anyway... 00:04:05 Oh yeah, one really big use case is for "tweaking" of function arguments in a "prologue". 00:04:26 Hexstream: but what does it expand to? The non-variable place also has to satisfy a thing or two, I would bet 00:04:32 I often encounter scenarios like: "Oh, so this argument is a string-designator but I want to coerce it to a string right now". 00:04:56 (modify (coerce x 'string)) 00:05:19 prxq: It basically it expands to the same thing the traditional REVERSEF expands to... It uses GET-SETF-EXPANSION like everything else... 00:05:34 prxq: That, or (modify (string x)) 00:05:36 ok. great :-) 00:05:54 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:39 Traditionally modify-macros have had very limited adoption because the usual "let's create a new symbol with F at the end" strategy incurs much overhead, overall. 00:06:54 and DEFINE-MODIFY-MACRO is way too limited... 00:07:15 You can always fall back to normal macros and stuff, but that's unsatisfactory. 00:08:20 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db578b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:10:20 Hexstream: should this be working or am I doing something wrong: (with-resolved-places ((place (second '(1 2 3)))) (incf place)) 00:10:47 Shaftoe: '(1 2 3) is not a place. 00:10:50 (caveat: I Didn't load the library via quicklisp, just evaled the novel.lisp file) 00:10:59 That's (quote (1 2 3)) 00:11:12 Why not load via quicklisp? 00:11:43 Uh, wait. Yeah, you're modifying a literal... Hum... 00:12:04 First load the library via Quicklisp and we can talk ;P 00:12:17 (I simplified, it gives me the same error fi I wrap the whole thing in (let ((foo '(1 2 3))).... 00:12:23 yeah, I'll do that later and call on ya 00:12:26 that's still a literal 00:12:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.43.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:34 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 00:12:38 (second foo) is a literal? 00:12:41 no 00:12:44 '(1 2 3) is a literal 00:12:46 correct. 00:13:01 you should not attempt to modify literals. 00:13:14 the results may not be what you expect. 00:13:15 I'll just load quicklisp later tonight and check out the samples. 00:14:42 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.128] has joined #lisp 00:19:23 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 00:19:34 Hmm Is there a standard way to compare two objects ? something like (equal (make-instance 'foo) (make-instance 'foo)) => T 00:19:54 Or should I shadow cl:equal and use my own ? 00:20:11 daimrod: The recommended link for that is http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html 00:20:34 It says that there can't be a truly "universal" comparison or copying function. 00:20:48 daimrod: What objects are you trying to compare? 00:21:39 If you're trying to compare FOO objects, the usual approach is defining your own FOO-EQUAL or FOO= function. 00:22:11 Ok 00:22:44 Hexstream: thank you. 00:23:23 daimrod: np. For more complex, extensible "walking" you might consider making a generic function. 00:24:23 what do you mean by "walking" ? 00:25:45 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@ceesit01.nees.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 00:25:45 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 00:25:45 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:25:45 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 00:25:48 something like MY-EQUAL defined for my objects ? 00:25:49 daimrod: Uhh, that's harder to wikipedia/google than I expected. 00:26:18 "Walking a graph/tree/whatever structure" means traversing it... 00:26:27 oh I see 00:26:41 Which is something you might do to parse, pretty-print, compare, deep-copy something... 00:27:13 -!- cwardell [~cwardell@pool-108-5-120-252.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: cwardell] 00:27:56 I think I'd rather use something like tree-equal to be sure I've no surpise because it takes some times ;) 00:29:10 daimrod: tree-equal only works on trees made of conses... Though that might be okay for you. 00:29:46 doh I didn't know tree-equal exists 00:30:23 hm back to dpans, thank you again. 00:30:53 daimrod: Hum. Isn't that a draft of the CL standard? That's not as authoritative as the CLHS... 00:31:07 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 00:31:21 Hexstream: right, but I find it easier to read. 00:31:44 Fair enough. I wonder how safe that is though... 00:32:07 like Ctl2 I suppose 00:32:18 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has joined #lisp 00:33:20 There are a lot of differences between CLtL2 and CL... Anyway, bbl. 00:34:38 I recenlty wrote some stuff that culminated in copying lots of files across file system boundaries only to realize afterward that my copy-file function (a poor mans cp) didn't create the new files with the same attributes as their source. So, now I'm using the sb-posix:atime and sb-posix:mtime from the source as arguments to sb-posix:utime to update the attributes of the destination... I'm not a C guy so i'm curious if this is the 00:34:38 preferred idiom for doing this sort of thing from Lisp? 00:37:11 FTR I couldn't use sb-unix:unix-rename b/c of file system boundary stuff. 00:37:36 mon_key: I use rsync. 00:40:20 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-117-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:41:26 mon_key: there's nothing in CLHS to copy file attributes. The only file attributes available are file-author, file-write-date and file-size... 00:41:41 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:41:47 pkhuong: The file system boundaries were mount points on the same machine with lots of mostly trivial pathname transforms happening so other than no goto CL version of `cp' I felt like a CL was a fine fit. (-: 00:42:49 mon_key: there's mmv/mcp/mln to move/copy/link files with name transformations. 00:42:52 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-57-199.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:31 pjb: I'd forgotten about those. 00:46:09 Nauntilus [~Benji@ip68-231-176-93.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:24 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 00:49:30 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:01 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 00:51:23 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:56:35 -!- dagda [~dagda_@38.109.196.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:53 X99 [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 01:00:18 pjb: file-size?... 01:01:34 file-length I mean. 01:01:44 Bizarrely there doesn't seem to be a portable way to determine a file's size without opening it and going at the end and querying the FILE-POSITION... 01:01:49 -!- eulyix [~charles@host86-128-9-79.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:02 Oh, there's FILE-LENGTH. Cool. 01:02:10 Hexstream: indeed, since file-length is given in units of the file contents (characters, bytes). So they have to be "counted". 01:02:26 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:03:51 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:04:29 SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has joined #lisp 01:04:30 pjb: Not necessarily in the case of characters, if I'm interpreting CLHS FILE-LENGTH correctly... 01:04:44 xD 01:05:25 Which kind of makes sense, I guess, as correctly returning the character count could involve traversing the entire file for variable-length multibyte encodings such as UTF-8... 01:05:40 In the case of bytes, you mean. For characters (eg. utf-8) you have to read the file to count them. 01:06:06 Or even to count newlines if the file contains CR-LF sequences... 01:06:55 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 01:06:55 -!- iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:07:27 -!- chenbing [~user@122.233.180.9] has left #lisp 01:07:37 pjb: I meant that the spec doesn't mandate that the FILE-LENGTH be the count of characters in the case of a file opened with :element-type 'character. 01:07:40 Apparently. 01:08:46 But that's the intent. See the example. 01:09:13 Examples are not normative ;P 01:09:50 luminaryhart [~luminaryh@75.76.52.253] has joined #lisp 01:09:59 what parts are needed to create a functional robot xD 01:10:00 wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has joined #lisp 01:10:08 The external-format is not specified in the example, and they're just using ASCII characters. So not really conclusive. 01:10:35 SlayersZ: fsvo robot. 01:10:39 You'd get the same count by naively returning the bytecount. 01:10:47 Hexstream: external-format is implementation dependent though... 01:11:04 mon_key: Irrelevant to my point. 01:11:06 by default element-type is 'character. 01:11:13 pjb: I know that. 01:11:16 But implementations do count characters. 01:11:31 I'm quite ready to believe that. 01:12:35 Hexstream: it is possible for a stream to have an external-format yes? 01:12:44 yes 01:12:50 clhs stream-external-format 01:13:27 seangrove [~user@68-113-62-237.dhcp.rdng.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:29 anything that is not a count of fixed-bit-width words is insane, imo. 01:13:37 I wonder what that would return for a "purely" binary stream... 01:13:57 i mean, as a return value of file-length 01:13:58 depends on the element-type size. 01:14:29 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:41 (= (/ (with-open-file (f "/some/file" :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) (file-length f)) 2) (with-open-file (f "/some/file" :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) (file-length 16))) 01:14:57 with the right correction... 01:15:08 *pjb* is going to bed. 01:15:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c39a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:16:01 pjb: changed the wrong param there, I think 01:16:47 railsmonk [~railsmonk@FTTB-dynamic-79.104.219.158.ranetka.ru] has joined #lisp 01:17:50 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18:06 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:18:15 -!- railsmonk [~railsmonk@FTTB-dynamic-79.104.219.158.ranetka.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 01:18:38 Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has joined #lisp 01:23:00 agumonkey [~agumonkey@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:34 YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-141-146.w90-27.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:25:39 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:41 -!- SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:26:14 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.128] has joined #lisp 01:26:16 SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has joined #lisp 01:27:09 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:34 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 01:41:48 -!- waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:42:59 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:40 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Bye/Memento Mori] 01:47:27 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 01:54:48 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 01:55:07 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 01:58:49 -!- drdo [~drdo@drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:01:47 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:27 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:09 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:08:24 bbommarito [~bbommarit@c-68-83-194-239.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:56 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:57 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 02:10:47 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@h-91-26.a163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:11:21 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:35 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-212-252.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:13:16 Is Climacs available via Quicklisp? 02:13:18 Does anyone know? 02:14:04 (ql:system-apropos "climacs") 02:14:06 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:22 Cosman246: yes. 02:14:29 Thanks 02:18:20 -!- bbommarito [~bbommarit@c-68-83-194-239.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 02:19:00 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 02:19:09 bbommarito [~bbommarit@c-68-83-194-239.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:25 heidymadia [~saasten@fm-ip-61.247.42.167.fast.net.id] has joined #lisp 02:21:22 -!- bbommarito [~bbommarit@c-68-83-194-239.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:22:06 bbommarito [~bbommarit@c-68-83-194-239.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:18 -!- bbommarito [~bbommarit@c-68-83-194-239.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 02:30:24 latyas [~latyas@2001:da8:b000:6709:ba70:f4ff:fe9e:a43] has joined #lisp 02:31:50 -!- tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:31 -!- latyas [~latyas@2001:da8:b000:6709:ba70:f4ff:fe9e:a43] has quit [Quit: ] 02:36:35 jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 02:37:24 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-241-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:37:30 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B00F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF38.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:59 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 02:46:38 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 02:46:40 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:49 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:38 -!- davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:56:10 Hmmmmmm 02:56:15 That's strange 02:58:00 -!- SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:01:27 teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has joined #lisp 03:01:42 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0724.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:01:51 SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has joined #lisp 03:03:31 -!- heidymadia [~saasten@fm-ip-61.247.42.167.fast.net.id] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:04:11 _nix001 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 03:05:09 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:08:11 msponge [~msponge@wsip-184-186-220-205.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:31 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 03:17:54 -!- SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:20:03 heidymadia [~saasten@fm-ip-61.247.42.167.fast.net.id] has joined #lisp 03:23:59 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-155-056.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 03:27:08 -!- agumonkey [~agumonkey@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:00 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:23 chenbing [~user@122.233.180.9] has joined #lisp 03:37:33 When I load a package that depends on a file, all is fine 03:37:57 When I call a function in that file, nothing works 03:38:14 -!- dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f713315.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:04 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f713224.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:21 dsabanin [~railsmonk@FTTB-dynamic-79.104.219.158.ranetka.ru] has joined #lisp 03:41:13 Cosman246: How doesn't it work? 03:41:26 Cosman246: debug time! YOu can set breakpoints with (break), you can trace functions with (trace ...). 03:41:29 Here, let me try again 03:42:40 I used Quickproject and load the package.....but, even though it loads the package perfectly, it doesn't recognize it when I type (cl-sca:main) 03:42:55 try (cl-sca::main) 03:42:59 you likely didn't export main 03:43:19 Hmmm 03:43:40 (cl-sca::main) doesn't work either; what do I need to do to export it? 03:44:28 if that doesn't work, export probably isn't the problem. By "it doesn't recognize it", you mean it tells you the function is undefined? 03:44:33 Yup 03:44:41 Loading the package is not enough, you must also load the files that define the functions in the package. 03:44:56 Ah. 03:44:58 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.192.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:45:21 So I should load the package.lisp and cl-sca.lisp 03:45:23 Also, you can't load packages. 03:45:48 You should define an asdf system and use asdf or quicklisp to load it. 03:45:51 In lisp parlance, you'd load the files that compose the system that define and use the package. 03:46:14 The vocabulary can make things a bit confusing. 03:46:50 where you are currently thinking package you should probably be thinking system 03:47:02 systems consist of files (and other things) 03:47:15 Here, let me try again 03:47:25 packages are described by the contents of those files 03:47:32 SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has joined #lisp 03:48:04 Vicfred [~Futaba@201.102.81.4] has joined #lisp 03:48:30 lazybone [~yukiy@110.185.233.67] has joined #lisp 03:48:47 Would it be enough to (load "~/Documents/programming/Common-Lisp/cl-sca/cl-sca.asd") and then (cl-sca::main)? 03:49:29 No. You should use (ql:quickload :cl-sca) 03:49:42 or (asdf:load-system :cl-sca) 03:49:59 Ah, thanks! 03:50:02 It works now! 03:51:00 and I've fixed the bugs revealed with C-c C-c earlier, so I should be able to finish this soon 03:53:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:53:44 Also: completely unrelated, can anyone point me to some background on the -*- convention? 03:58:33 evaluate (info "(emacs)Specifying File Variables") in emacs. 04:00:08 Thanks! 04:02:08 -!- sshaginyan [~sshaginya@cpe-76-167-139-212.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:34 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:02:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:04:21 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 04:08:15 -!- 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[Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:35 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 04:54:46 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 04:55:09 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:56:15 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-117-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:57:34 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-117-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:57:37 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-117-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:59:45 -!- Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:57 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:02:51 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-117-10.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 05:08:07 italic: avoiding the hathred of all the CL programmers who want do use your code on another implementation. 05:08:12 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:11:00 italic: also not having to learn a new threading API every time you want to write software in a new implementation. 05:12:50 kpreid [~kpreid@72-255-101-195.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:46 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:48 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:50 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:15:50 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 05:16:32 mathrick_ [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 05:19:12 mathrick__ [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 05:21:49 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:22:53 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp121-45-21-58.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:22 -!- msponge [~msponge@wsip-184-186-220-205.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: msponge] 05:23:29 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:56 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:25:13 guys, what is the best most active web framework for lisp? 05:25:52 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 05:26:45 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:55 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 05:28:49 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:29:25 dsabanin: not sure what to recommend hunchentoot is probably the best-tested thing out there (: 05:29:30 (it's what I use all the time) 05:29:57 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 05:30:34 I think the usual answer ends up being "there are too many, I'll write my own". 05:30:47 if you're looking for something more MVC-y, I guess restas? 05:30:49 -!- ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:30:56 -!- SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:31:06 there used to be weblocks, but it hasn't gotten updated for the newest hunchentoot yet, AFAIK 05:31:38 msponge [~msponge@wsip-184-186-220-205.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:15 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:32:23 ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:27 -!- msponge [~msponge@wsip-184-186-220-205.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:35:40 SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has joined #lisp 05:35:44 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-3096525958.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:35:53 what's the deal with #'SORT? 05:36:17 I'm doing a sort on a sub-list...is that something I should avoid? 05:37:44 and my problem is that I have a list of 3 items, when I call sort, there's only 2 items in the list... 05:38:23 Are you forgetting to use the return value of sort? 05:38:34 ...yep. 05:38:56 I thought in-place and destructive meant it would replace the list it sorts with the sorted list 05:39:57 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 05:40:28 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.249] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:40:36 i use copy-seq when that happens :P 05:40:51 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:15 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 05:43:50 derrida: good thinkin ;p 05:46:16 antifuchs: thanks, I'll check out restas 05:46:24 definitely don't want to write my own framework :) 05:46:49 that's the spirit (-; 05:53:31 chenbing` [~user@60.186.111.197] has joined #lisp 05:56:48 -!- chenbing [~user@122.233.180.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:58:02 -!- jsoft_ [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:17 sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-124.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 06:01:19 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:02:53 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:09 -!- akovalenko 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quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:10 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA306B5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:01 kmizumar [~kmizumar@gl08-237.gl08.cilas.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:38 pnq [~nick@ACA306B5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 06:54:38 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:54:49 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-202-204.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:00:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:01:34 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 07:02:55 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 07:05:27 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yzpckbafkjececwv] has joined #lisp 07:05:28 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:01 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 07:08:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:09:27 -!- SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:49 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 07:10:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:10:49 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:14:49 -!- drdo [~drdo@drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:35 -!- kmizumar [~kmizumar@gl08-237.gl08.cilas.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:38 Any ideas re deftype problem with SBCL? http://paste.lisp.org/display/126655 can't be compiled, is that my fault? 07:28:53 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:32:30 good morning 07:34:04 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.122.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:21 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.173.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:36:34 -!- X99 [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:35 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 07:36:48 flip214: are you using an old SBCL (~2 months or older)? 07:37:11 happens to me with 1.0.54.halfway-to-head 07:37:17 no, current head 07:37:19 from git 07:37:34 I thought I had fixed this. Oh well. 07:38:31 flip214: thanks for the .asd bug report, I fixed it after waking up (: 07:39:11 fine ... I saw it via planet lisp and wanted to test it (having used php libraries once in the past) 07:39:34 your lib does better error reporting. 07:39:41 (for invalid input, that is) 07:39:50 hah, I would hope so it's definitely not perfect 07:39:57 but it should work (-: 07:40:17 (if I encounter any errors, I still have to scratch my head a lot) (: 07:40:33 realitygrill [~realitygr@ppp-71-133-121-101.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:34 but hey, that's what a test suite is for, right (: 07:44:03 If you remember to test _invalid_ input ... then yes ;) 07:44:17 -!- ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:44:19 haha 07:44:22 sometimes ((-: 07:44:28 well, some invalid inputs 07:44:56 I can't guarantee I understand punycode really, but the encoder passes all the published idna tests I could find, so I'm happy (: 07:46:53 ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:53 cscolt [~cscolt@li166-102.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:47:03 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.156.251] has joined #lisp 07:48:38 slash_ [~unknown@p54B8676C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:33 with system:iterate there is some syntaxs like (for (k,v) in-hashtable ht1), we can recogize exported symbols from #:iterate( for in iter...). I wonder where 'in-hashtable comes from? I can't locate it in Hyspec nor packlisp_interate 07:51:31 anonus [~anonymous@95-55-97-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 07:54:00 -!- ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:54:31 -!- markski1beck [~Mark@iammark.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:55:08 markski1beck [~Mark@iammark.us] has joined #lisp 07:55:42 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has quit [Quit: rme] 08:00:09 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:02:19 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 08:09:10 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:09:24 -!- heidymadia [~saasten@fm-ip-61.247.42.167.fast.net.id] has left #lisp 08:15:14 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 08:16:02 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:10 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:18:01 mathrick_ [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 08:18:40 Evil_Piccolo [~Namek@ip-83-212-223-243.adsl.aueb.gr] has joined #lisp 08:20:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:25:05 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:26:15 is there any recommended library for regex-based matching? 08:26:41 porting my clojure chess to lisp and i need to match xboard protocol commands somehow 08:26:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:27:29 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-124.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:27:47 here's the part in clojure: https://github.com/zmyrgel/tursas/blob/master/src/tursas/engine.clj#L279 08:28:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has joined #lisp 08:28:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has quit [Changing host] 08:28:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:31:57 kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:32:11 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:32:24 zmyrgel: cl-ppcre 08:34:15 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:34 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.117.41] has joined #lisp 08:38:03 flip214: ok, gotta delve into it. Looks bit weird at first glance 08:38:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:39:05 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 08:39:15 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 08:40:44 sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-124.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:41:45 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:20 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 08:42:29 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f713224.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:43 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:25 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:43:50 -!- Evil_Piccolo [~Namek@ip-83-212-223-243.adsl.aueb.gr] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:46:26 can we restore lisp-files from fasl? 08:46:57 disassemble or decompile 08:48:12 i remember my DOS day where I have found a disassembler for C, it converted binary executable code back to C code, it was fun but hardly readable 08:48:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:49:05 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 08:50:26 chenbing`: implementation dependent. Generally won't give you useful results. 08:52:22 has anyone here combined clws (or a similar websocket server) with hunchentoot or toot? 08:56:16 Ralith: are fasl-files useful? I found the process of quickload or asdf:load-systems needn't them 08:56:33 that is implementation dependent. 08:57:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:57:57 -!- anonus [~anonymous@95-55-97-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:58:14 you mean some implemetatoin need fasl for quickloading or asdf:load-system.. 08:58:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has joined #lisp 08:58:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has quit [Changing host] 08:58:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:59:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:00:37 no. 09:02:21 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:02:37 okay. you mean restoring 09:03:17 OliverUv [~gandhi@h-91-26.a163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 09:03:40 YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 09:03:42 -!- teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:04:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:04:08 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has joined #lisp 09:04:09 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 09:04:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has quit [Changing host] 09:04:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:05:08 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-124.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:41 fasl is for faster loading as it is already compiled, without fasl it will compile before loading. fasl -> fas(t)l(oad) 09:06:07 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:06:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 09:07:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.156.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:07:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:10:20 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:10:53 I found with no lispfiles, only fasl can't be load in my sbcl-slime e 09:11:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:11:47 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has joined #lisp 09:11:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:12:26 -!- wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:41 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:15:34 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:43 zmyrgel: cl-ppcre has two regex syntaxes, a lispy one and a 'normal' regex one. i tend to use the regex strings as i already know them and haven't bothered to learn something new. it should just work(TM) 09:20:33 Evil_Piccolo [~Namek@83.212.223.243] has joined #lisp 09:20:41 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:21:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has joined #lisp 09:21:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.62.77.38] has quit [Changing host] 09:21:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:21:19 EarlGray [~mitra@turnpikeless-detective.volia.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-99-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: away] 09:25:51 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:41 chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:46 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@turnpikeless-detective.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:28:57 easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:30:53 -!- tali713 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[~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:39 good day everyone 11:04:27 hi Blkt 11:06:02 hi fe[nl]ix 11:10:31 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:19:39 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 11:23:49 -!- markski1beck [~Mark@iammark.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:27 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 11:46:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:49:35 chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:23 agumonkey [agumonkey@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:42 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:29 -!- award85 [~itsame@unaffiliated/award85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:24 award85 [~itsame@unaffiliated/award85] has joined #lisp 11:58:11 mstevens 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12:37:01 *Levente* just launched his android game backed up with a lisp server 12:37:17 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.24.139.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:44 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:46:27 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 12:51:06 what kind of game? 12:55:39 https://market.android.com/details?id=hu.dwim.numbertoss.free 12:55:57 puzzle game similar to sudoku 12:56:18 server provides database and XML communication for scoreboards 12:56:55 web server, database model, XML processing, etc. in less than 1000 lines 12:57:14 I think I'll put that up somewhere, so others can take a look 13:00:36 -!- Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-146-216.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:05:17 -!- q0tw4 [~rsumin@46.164.135.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:11 q0tw4 [~rsumin@46.164.135.37] has 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[~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:28:05 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-31-164-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Nodding off now.] 13:28:49 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:29:05 Nauntilus [~Benji@wsip-68-14-222-194.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:04 teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.12] has joined #lisp 13:31:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:41 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA25BC7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:31:46 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:32 Does lisp have anything like interfaces in Java? Is there even really a need for them? 13:32:58 pnq [~nick@ACA25BC7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:11 jmckitrick: no, there is no need for them. you can just implement methods for those generic functions that you need. 13:34:24 jmckitrick: this is not to say that interfaces would not be useful as a method of grouping functionality. common lisp has no such thing, but you can certainly define your own macros to do that if you desire so. 13:34:56 I think it could possibly be useful for housekeeping. "Did I implement all the methods I set out to?" 13:35:39 *Xach* has gained a newfound appreciation for cl:shadowing-import this week 13:37:32 hello, I finally have something working with kuma http server 13:37:43 Xach: how so? 13:37:51 has anybody got indentation to work in slime-mode with filtered functions (http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/filtered.html)? 13:38:14 but I have discovered a bug that now is partially fixed in thread-pool package 13:38:46 https://github.com/kiuma/thread-pool/blob/master/src/thread-pool.lisp 13:39:17 I have problems with slime indenting the defmethod forms incorrectly when using :filter qualifier 13:39:27 -!- lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-9-5.w90-43.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:42:46 Xach: H4ns: they are used often in Java and csharp to make sure an object complies with a spec, and also to encourage use of an api rather than direct access to class methods. 13:42:59 hans: Generic functions provide interfaces in CL. 13:43:01 Not saying I'm a fan, that's just the selling point I hear most often. 13:43:17 jmckitrick: i understand what they do, it is just that cl per se has nothing like that. 13:43:28 jmckitrick: in the sense of checking completeness 13:43:33 Zhivago: i agree. 13:43:46 You could use unit tests for that. 13:45:46 H4ns: I never understood before how it was different from separate shadow+import. Now I realize it is quite different. 13:45:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:46:43 chenbing [~user@60.186.241.18] has joined #lisp 13:47:06 It works around potential conflict points. 13:48:33 Xach: i guess i need to find my own use case to appreciate it :) 13:48:43 jmckitrick it would be trivial to write a definterface macro which, given method declarations, creates default methods that throw "Method not defined" condition for instances of that class. and then just inherit from it 13:49:13 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:19 H4ns: I hope to write up something soon 13:49:22 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 13:49:36 Not just on shadowing-import, but on all aspects of package manipulation 13:50:34 fade_ [~fade_@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 13:50:43 Xach: i'm looking forward to that! 13:51:30 -!- award85 [~itsame@unaffiliated/award85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:51:51 I learned a lot, but I'm not sure to what degree others shared my previous ignorance... 13:52:15 *H4ns* is pretty ignorant 13:52:16 *Xach* has implemented a semantically-compatible package system from scratch and thinks it has didactic value 13:52:31 but that is because packages don't bite me often anymore. 13:52:33 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:52:44 H4ns: same here. 13:53:13 kennyd: that's true.. 13:53:23 hello. how to create a default method for all objects, except those that explicitly defined it? 13:53:53 Specialize it on T. 13:53:55 fade_: (defmethod (foo bar) (do-something)) 13:53:58 fade_: (defmethod method ((object t)) 'default) is one way, shorthand is (defmethod method (object) 'default) 13:54:07 fixed 13:54:19 where 'default is replaced by whatever actual thing you want to do 13:54:23 not part of the syntax. 13:54:24 gah 13:54:46 fade_: if you don't specialize an argument on a type, it is specialized on t implicitly. 13:55:01 H4ns not sure I understand 13:55:36 fade_: (defmethod a-function (foo bar) (do-something)) would be the right syntax 13:55:40 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:55:52 Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has joined #lisp 13:56:08 which one is self-equivalent? 13:56:13 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.82.6] has joined #lisp 13:56:17 fade_: what is the naem of the generic function in question? what is its lambda list? 13:56:41 it just accepts self, one argument 13:56:43 fade_: (defmethod a-function ((foo t) (bar t)) (do-something)) ; would be equivalent. 13:57:33 fade_: And what is the name of the generic function? 13:57:56 ok I got it. so (defmethod method (self)) 13:58:05 or (self t) 13:58:09 fade_: right. 13:58:27 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:34 what does t represent here? 13:58:51 T is the superclass of all classes. 14:00:02 works thanks. I've used that before without even knowing, in print-object's second argument 14:00:19 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yzpckbafkjececwv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:00:36 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has joined #lisp 14:01:14 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.134] has joined #lisp 14:03:18 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:47 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:04:25 any reason why one would use (defmethod method ((obj t)) (do-stuff)) instead of (defmethod method (obj) (do-stuff)) ? 14:04:44 fade_: in the first form, obj will be declared ignorable for you. 14:05:17 fade_: so if you use the argument just for specialization, the first form spares you from having to add a (declare (ignore obj)) 14:05:38 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:12 *Xach* learns something new every day! 14:07:33 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA25BC7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:09:03 pnq [~nick@ACA25BC7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:29 i like how methods are not tied to classes. you can add new methods even from classes that are you didn't define 14:09:35 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129053043.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:09:50 s/are// 14:12:31 -!- udoprog [~udoprog@h-39-66.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:13:31 award85 [~itsame@c-69-181-38-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:31 -!- award85 [~itsame@c-69-181-38-133.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:13:31 award85 [~itsame@unaffiliated/award85] has joined #lisp 14:18:58 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.146] has joined #lisp 14:20:38 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@49.79.88.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:51 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:05 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0404.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:32 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:31:10 -!- fade_ [~fade_@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 14:32:10 -!- xpololz [~xpol@50.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:25 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA25BC7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:34:56 pnq [~nick@ACA25BC7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:14 felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:46 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has joined #lisp 14:39:07 slime/swank have something like interfaces that report missing methods for a given implementation. 14:39:20 dagda [~dagda_@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:30 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.59] has joined #lisp 14:39:39 -!- dagda [~dagda_@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:13 dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:29 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 14:42:49 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:46 BrianRice` [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:47 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:47 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 14:44:00 teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.12] has joined #lisp 14:44:57 BrianRice` [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:57 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:57 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 14:45:42 When people talk about "creating a Lisp image" (eg AllegroCL has (dumplisp), (build-lisp-image), and (generate-application), is it analogous to taking a C-program and statically compiling/linking to all of its libraries? Basically building a Lisp image wraps up "everything" your Lisp program would need so you can just dump it onto another machine and run? 14:46:20 SurlyFrog: sort of. 14:48:22 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:48:24 Is there a good example of a simple, "hello world" Lisp program that isn't run from the REPL? Such as, we know the source code of your program is (princ "Hello world") here are the steps you follow to compile that, package it, and make an executable so someone can just open a terminal and run it. 14:48:29 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:49:16 I'm trying to wrap my head around a deployed Lisp program versus developing in SLIME. 14:49:53 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.249] has joined #lisp 14:50:02 SurlyFrog: it really depends on the kinds of deployments that you do. in most of my systems, i'm just checking out from git and then compile on the target system. 14:50:13 urandom__ [~user@p548A2CEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:32 SurlyFrog: that hurts startup times, but it is good because there is a close match between my development environment and the deployed systems. 14:52:15 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 14:52:23 H4ns: can you talk to me about that a bit? What's running on the deployed systems? For example, right now I deploy a Python based web-service by grabbing the latest Python source code out of my git-hub account, extracting it and fixing up some links, then getting mod_wsgi to reload the code. So I understand how that is working. Meaning Apache loads an instance of the Python interpreter and starts executing my code. 14:53:05 SurlyFrog: i cannot "talk to you", but i can answer specific questions :) 14:53:28 H4ns: sure, :-) sorry about that. 14:55:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:55:29 In Python, it's pretty clear how to start things. You run "$ python foo.py" I've never seen anything like that in the last month that I've been using Common Lisp. Everything seems to be, start the REPL and then load/write code. A question is, when you deploy your code to a target system. How do you actually start up the program? 14:55:55 -!- cwardell [~cwardell@pool-108-5-120-252.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: cwardell] 14:55:56 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:56:04 One strategy to achieve what you are doing with python with CL is to start a CL on your server, start up the swank server, and connect to it with a local SLIME 14:56:15 SurlyFrog: i use a "load.lisp" file that contains the code needed to start my system. i load that from the command line. 14:56:17 SurlyFrog: i personally start the repl in screen with a startup file that loads the application. 14:57:16 SurlyFrog: start here https://github.com/hanshuebner/quickhoney/blob/master/src/run.sh for an example. 14:57:37 quek [~quek@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 14:57:52 So nobody goes to the level of creating a final, binary executable that can be run directly from a terminal (or double clicked from an interface)? 14:58:25 SurlyFrog: i'm doing that only when users need to start my programs, which rarely happens. 14:58:26 very rarely. 14:58:34 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:34 antgreen [~user@70.50.66.113] has joined #lisp 14:59:14 SurlyFrog: sometimes i do. 14:59:39 SurlyFrog: usually if i want something to run from cron, though lately i'm doing it more for other utilities. 14:59:58 Okay. H4ns, I just checked your link. That makes perfect sense to me. It's funny that it's taken a month for me to see anything resembling the three-line shell script that makes it clear :-) 15:00:53 Xach: so is that where doing something like (dumplisp) come into play? 15:01:09 SurlyFrog: yes. i use sbcl, and wrote a program called buildapp to do it for me. 15:01:49 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:52 -!- quek [~quek@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:02:10 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.66] has joined #lisp 15:02:29 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.249.208] has joined #lisp 15:04:26 quek [~quek@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 15:05:25 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-192-111.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 15:05:48 anyone see Sussman's "We Really Don't Know How To Compute!" presentation from Strange Loops 2011 15:06:40 I watched it last night. I find my quite an inspirational speaker. 15:07:00 cwardell [~cwardell@pool-108-5-120-252.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:05 video is here, http://www.infoq.com/presentations/We-Really-Dont-Know-How-To-Compute 15:08:26 reassuring to see he is still very much into his sexp based languages 15:09:01 -!- quek [~quek@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:09:40 quek [~quek@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 15:09:54 -!- quek [~quek@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 15:12:20 HmmmI just realized that I need to ask a stupid question. When Lisp code is compiled, is it truly compiled all the way down to machine code? Such that a true binary is created (ELF, DLL, etc.). Or is the compiled file still to the level that you must have a Lisp interpreter executing it. 15:12:45 SurlyFrog: that depends on your implementation 15:12:59 SurlyFrog: ccl, sbcl, acl, lispworks, compile to machine code. 15:13:17 SurlyFrog: abcl compiles to jvm byte code, clisp has an own virtual machine, ecl compiles to c. 15:14:03 SurlyFrog try (disassemble 'function) 15:14:14 H4ns: I was afraid you where going to say that :-) 15:14:16 SurlyFrog: it can be compiled to machine code and still not appear in a disk file. 15:15:00 Xach: oh.I hadn't thought of that. 15:16:08 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129053043.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:10 Coming from C and Python, I assume interpreted is Pythonesque and compile means the same thing it does in C-land. 15:16:45 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129053043.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 15:17:18 SurlyFrog: No. In C land there are interpreters (Cint, EiC, Ch), and in python land there are compilers (CL-Python). 15:17:26 You are assuming too much. 15:17:38 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:59 I have a lambda function # given by (callable-handler-func callable) , when I call (funcall (callable-handler-func callable)) I've this signal # pjb: sure 15:18:02 why ? 15:18:32 kiuma: Because there is no applicable method. 15:18:39 kiuma: because it calls a generic function on an object of a class for which there is no applicable method. 15:18:45 quek [~quek@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 15:19:24 what should I use instead of funcall ? 15:19:32 Irrelevant. 15:19:37 Debug your lambda function! 15:20:03 And use princ to print your error messages... 15:21:50 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.44.226] has joined #lisp 15:21:51 sigh, I think it's a typo 15:22:35 dagda_ [~dagda_@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:01 -!- quek [~quek@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:23:48 iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has joined #lisp 15:25:17 -!- dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:25:58 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has left #lisp 15:27:12 to every lisper http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=2981 15:29:16 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.118.92.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:29:59 -!- kennyd is now known as quincunxes 15:30:18 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:19 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA25BC7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:34:44 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.46.3.189] has joined #lisp 15:35:40 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-321068.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:37:53 -!- dagda_ [~dagda_@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:24 dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.249.208] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 15:42:48 here's my message for Lispers> (mapc (lambda (x) (format t "~C" (code-char x))) '(72 101 108 108 111 32 87 111 114 108 100)) 15:42:59 slightly rushed because I need to go 15:44:22 seangrove [~user@68-113-62-237.dhcp.rdng.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:40 *Xach* doesn't understand what it is, since he uses ebcdic lisp :( 15:45:03 doh 15:45:10 never thought of that 15:46:17 though the question is why? 15:46:25 Big iron. 15:46:41 really 15:46:57 Xach, you got a mainframe in your living room 15:47:04 httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/ebcdic.html 15:47:18 is there an actual non-ascii lisp in existence? 15:48:01 Xach, do you work with IBM? 15:48:14 anyway, must go 15:48:21 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:53 Cosman246: yes. IBM compatibles, anyway. 15:50:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-EBCDIC 15:59:45 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0404.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:08 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-321068.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:02:18 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-395360.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:04:43 is that some difference sense of IBM compatibility 16:05:35 no sane person would choose anything other than unicode for character encoding today. 16:05:48 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:06:08 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.249.208] has joined #lisp 16:06:09 *Xach* shift-jis all the way 16:11:31 davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:15 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:44 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:38 knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:25 Is quickload able to handle external dependencies like shared libraries and executable well? 16:15:47 knobo: quickload uses asdf to load things. 16:16:42 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-198.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:47 And, can these things be handled through asdf? 16:16:59 Yes. 16:17:15 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:17:59 ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:44 I'm thinking about a funny "joke". using quickload and asdf as a package manager for a lisp distribution. 16:19:04 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0404.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 -!- iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:22:13 iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has joined #lisp 16:25:14 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:21 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined 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[~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:36:37 rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has joined #lisp 17:36:48 vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-246-120.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-246-120.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:38:35 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 17:39:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-48-89.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:41 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:32 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-104-215.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:52 mikecsh [~mikecsh@host86-185-60-62.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:07 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@host86-185-60-62.range86-185.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:17 dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has joined #lisp 17:47:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-48-89.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-48-89.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:50 vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-246-120.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 18:03:28 -!- dsabanin [~railsmonk@FTTB-dynamic-79.104.219.158.ranetka.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:40 dsabanin [~dsabanin@FTTB-Beeline-213.221.28.57.ranetka.ru] has joined #lisp 18:03:44 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-246-120.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:32 -!- iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:10:23 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:11:22 that is pretty funny 18:12:41 drewc [~user@207.6.31.109] has joined #lisp 18:13:09 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-383822.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:42 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-48-89.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:19:18 -!- anonus [~anonymous@95-55-97-194.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 18:21:23 there's a 'sixth wall' that I think only irc users in channels for semi-obscure computer languages know about involving humour and translation loss between human languages. 18:25:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:36 -!- davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 18:32:49 -!- eulyix [~charles@host86-128-9-79.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:07 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:34:15 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:43 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA208F2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:35:56 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-383822.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:36:30 spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:45 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 18:37:23 microbes in motion ?! 18:37:25 lol 18:41:45 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:42:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:45:47 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 18:49:31 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:11 So, can anyone who is around check out http://common-lisp.net/ and make sure that is works and is not the old version of index? 18:50:36 how can I tell it's old or new? 18:50:45 (I can see the a welcome page) 18:50:45 drewc: looks new to me 18:50:51 -!- mmullis [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:50:52 latest news, 2011-06-05 18:50:57 antifuchs: someone emailed earlier and said it was 2003 18:51:02 antifuchs: the old version was from 2003 18:51:04 hahaha 18:51:23 ok, yes, this is either a 2003 page that came back from the future, or indeed a 2011 page. 18:51:48 ah good, I am glad it works! 18:51:50 drewc: well the lists.common-lisp.net don't point toanything 18:53:04 sbryant: odd... I will check that out as well. 18:59:43 sbryant: http://lists.common-lisp.net/mailman/listinfo/cl-user ... seems to work. What is the problem you are having? 19:00:05 The link on the front page of lists.common-lisp.net does not work 19:01:16 oh ... so it doesn't. did it work before? what was it pointed to? 19:01:20 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 19:01:20 -!- v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has quit [Client Quit] 19:01:26 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 19:02:10 No clue 19:02:15 but I do know that is surpsing 19:02:33 and I was looking from some CL lists and that hit me 19:05:18 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:06:01 bobbysmith007: FYI, asdf provides & supports asdf:map-systems to map over defined-systems 19:07:25 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:08:35 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:35 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:42 sbryant: odd, it does not seem to be setup to point to anything. I sould redirect it to http://lists.common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/, but I suppose that first I want to find out what happened to the main website and figure out if they did something to lists as well. 19:08:49 should* 19:09:30 oh, and btw, hello #lisp! :) 19:09:47 drewc! hi! 19:10:13 drewc: who's "they"? 19:11:50 eulyix [~charles@host86-128-9-79.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:51 -!- levi` is now known as levi 19:14:02 well, I am pretty sure the only person who is supposed to do the website, who also moved it to git, is on clo-devel ... 19:14:43 do I want to mention their name? No, in case it is not their fault! :) 19:15:17 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:16:46 hey drewc welcome back again 19:17:08 H4ns: I believe your statement about foo vs (foo t) in method definitions is inaccurate... required parameters are always "used", even with implicit specialisation on T. 19:17:51 -!- Dvozerty [~Dvozerty@tga83-2-88-161-210-241.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 19:18:02 Hexstream: in the spec, it says "This means that a compiler warning does not occur if the body of the method does not refer to a specialized parameter, while a warning might occur if the body of the method does not refer to an unspecialized parameter. For this reason, a parameter that specializes on t is not quite synonymous with an unspecialized parameter in this context." 19:18:25 felideon: it is nice to be here :) my internet was not so great beforehand, so I stopped being on #lisp. Now, well, it should be better and I should probably be here! 19:18:26 I can believe there might be ambiguity. 19:18:31 Or contradiction. 19:18:36 Xach: Wholy shit. 19:18:56 Ok, I guess "Holy shit" would be better. 19:19:00 Too many Ws? Not enough Ls? 19:19:38 I kind of have a blank on what kind of spontaneous portmanteau I was trying to make. 19:20:29 Anyway, in SBCL (defmethod foo (bar)) doesn't throw a warning, which I find pretty convenient. 19:20:58 Other implementations do. It prompted me to add a bunch of declarations, but now I'm tempted to go back and use (foo t) instead. 19:21:31 Well, cool then. We *did* learn something new today. And it's even true! Woo. 19:21:48 *Xach* learned so much today 19:22:07 that's what days are for 19:22:39 I'd advise whoever makes the successor to Slime to assume multi-implementation development from the start, and treat single-implementation development as a special case. 19:22:52 Hexstream: STYLE-WARNING if the generic function does not exit and it is the first defmethod :) 19:23:10 exist* 19:23:17 Hexstream: what do you mean by that? 19:23:22 *drewc* cannot type quite yet 19:23:45 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:23:51 stassats: I was quite disappointed with lack of usability when I optimistically tried to run several implementations at once. 19:23:53 development of slime or development under slime? because i use multiple implementations all the time without problems 19:24:03 drewc: that's not true. however, you can do with more practice. 19:24:07 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.117.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:24:16 drewc: we've chatted quite good enough :-) 19:25:06 stassats: One glaring example is that invoking the command to cycle to the next connection in the REPL did not actually cycle to next implementation, and/or it didn't switch to the REPL for the newly selected implementation. I think I filed a bug in LP about that... 19:25:22 that's true, but that's just a bug 19:25:38 ehu: true ... it may be that it is still morning and I was awake fixing cl-net and not chatting :) 19:26:07 stassats: K, well, I don't know but it's such an obvious thing that I immediately thought: "Ok, so 'nobody' actually uses multiple implementations simultaneously." 19:26:40 i just switch between them using slime-list-connections 19:27:19 although i usually run just two implementations, sometimes i run more and cycle connections isn't great at that 19:27:49 Another thing: there are 2 different ways to configure slime, one if you only use 1 implementation and another if you use multiple implementations. And if you have both at the same time, some conflicts can happen... A successor to slime should just have a way to configure multiple implementations from the start. 19:27:58 i'll fix this today 19:28:11 stassats: Neat. 19:28:14 (after i finish eating) 19:28:42 Hexstream: that's just a backwards compatibility, i believe 19:28:46 And there should be a "clall" thing... Or a "multiREPL" thing. 19:28:54 Yes, I think so. 19:28:59 although i don't use either method of starting implementations 19:29:26 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:27 Hexstream: like http://paste.lisp.org/display/123280 19:29:37 i have M-x sbcl M-x ccl M-x abcl and so on 19:30:03 pjb: No. Something nicely integrated into Emacs would be quite different. 19:30:32 Well, I actually haven't tried or read the source of clall so I can't really tell for sure ;P 19:30:55 Hexstream: so, when are you planning to start work on the slime successor? 19:31:14 stassats: When my current backlog is exhausted! 19:31:35 what, you don't process it in parallel? 19:31:39 My current estimate is about 3 years, not counting the additional backlog I'll probably accumulate in that time. 19:31:43 -!- Evil_Piccolo [~Namek@83.212.223.243] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:32:08 If I did that I'd make insignificant progress on all fronts instead of significant progress on a single front at a time. 19:32:24 And then there's context-switch overhead. 19:32:33 but don't you get bored doing the same thing all the time? 19:32:58 Hexstream: what stassats says: can you be fully productive on a single subject all the time? 19:33:06 I don't really do the same thing all the time, unless you mean programming. 19:33:30 the same project, whatever you call it 19:34:15 Actually in the last several months I worked on many different projects... 19:34:52 But every time I'm about to be able to publish one I start working on a dependency... 19:35:24 I'm a bit of a depth-first guy. (reference whatever relevant xkcd that was). 19:37:51 Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:02 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:04 drewc: if you ever have the time, and a blog or other place to dump contents, could you blog about your experience with ContextL? there's very little information available and LoL places a layer on top of ContextL. I'd like to learn more about ContextL 19:39:10 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:44:06 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.46.3.189] has quit [Quit:    ] 19:44:47 agumonke1 [~agu@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:28 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 19:48:58 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:49:28 -!- benny [~benny@i577A101B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:49:54 benny [~benny@i577A7D40.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:15 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:53:01 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:11 madnificent: I basically read the papers on http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/contextl.html ... Pascal Costanza is way better at writing then I will ever be. Did you read those? 19:53:57 drewc: yes, but code examples seem to be very sparse (or i have missed them) 19:55:01 drewc: and the article links to lisp on lines :) 19:55:25 Ok, well since I am writing lol/rofl code these days, I probably know a bit. I am planning on starting a blog regardless, so that will be one of my first entries :) 19:55:29 drewc: i skimmed over the articles is more correct though, i haven't fully read them 19:55:41 it would be a post i'd love to read! 19:55:45 thanks for considering it 19:56:01 lol is being extended as we speak then? 19:57:16 not really, but it will be, the lol-extensions in my current app will probably become part of lol proper 19:57:50 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 19:57:56 what kind of extensions are you using? 19:59:21 Ok! 19:59:41 spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:47 Xach: Hum. What information do you want in DEFPACKAGEs, again? Just :description?... 20:01:13 Hexstream: :description is good, :author, :license also good 20:01:23 And the :description would just be replicating the ASD information... 20:01:36 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:01:40 Oh, sorry. 20:01:48 Defpackage docstring? 20:02:01 defpackage does not have :description. 20:02:05 Oh. 20:02:17 Sorry, :documentation. 20:02:18 it does have :documentation. I have seen no standard practice for that. 20:02:28 I'm mixing up things. Oh, ok. That's good. 20:02:33 Fade: has-many-attribute, has-one-editor, list-as-table, file-download-window, boolean-attribute floating-point-attribute, textarea and currency editor, simple-date-editor, paged result-set-viewer, and select-db-object-attribute-editor. 20:03:06 I saw unknown-lamer mention that he's doing some JS + LOL stuff 20:03:21 Fade: basically, combining rofl (postgresql based) with lol. 20:03:27 *Fade* nods 20:03:36 I like rofl 20:03:53 bloody vc, freezing emacs while committing to slow cl.net cvs 20:03:58 Hexstream: fixed in CVS 20:04:01 drewc: LoL should work together with bknr-datastore also, right? 20:04:14 Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has joined #lisp 20:04:18 Fade: yes, he is working on JS for has-many-attribute IIRC 20:04:38 stassats: Luckily Quicklisp pulls from CVS... I think. So I'll just wait ~1 week. 20:04:40 does rofl overlap pomo in any way? 20:04:54 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:55 Hexstream: quicklisp not always pulls from CVS 20:05:14 madnificent: it should, I used to use bknr-datastore so it worked _back then_ anyway. 20:05:20 for example, the current quicklisp dist is old, because slime cvs was unstable 20:05:23 drewc: cool 20:05:25 Well, try not making big potentially breaking changes at the last minute ;P 20:06:41 i still can't get cmucl with :spawn to run 20:06:49 -!- Nauntilus [~Benji@wsip-68-14-222-194.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:06:51 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:25 How do I use buildapp for a program that is using quicklisp? I get "package "QL" not found" 20:07:28 lol isn't in quicklisp :( 20:07:39 i wonder why helmut decided to overhaul threaded communication, it only broke things and didn't add any value 20:07:55 Fade, drewc: so what exactly does rofl do? 20:07:59 while he's usually against things which doesn't break anything and add value 20:08:00 oh well 20:08:01 nope, i was wrong, it is in there. shouldn't have searched for lol 20:08:06 felideon: well, it uses postmodern to interact with postgres. 20:08:34 Who wants to see a sketch implementation of the package system in a few hundred lines? 20:08:44 drewc: and what else? 20:08:45 I do! 20:08:46 ah yes, just saw that in the defpackage I just foud 20:08:51 Xach: I'd be interested. 20:08:57 found* 20:09:17 http://xach.com/tmp/zpack.lisp 20:09:43 Sorry, no clarifying comments at the moment. I hope to flesh out more in prose sometime soon. 20:09:44 thanks to drewc #lisp looks like an ordinary chat with lols and rofls 20:10:15 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:48 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:37 Xach: how do I require quicklisp when using buildapp? I use ql:quickload at the top of my lisp files, but get "package "QL" not found" when trying buildapp. 20:11:43 The basic idea of that file is that the semantics of the CL package system can be implemented by an object with three special kinds of tables (present-table, shadowing-table, external-table) and two lists (used-packs, used-by-packs). The rest is implementation. 20:12:02 howeyc: --load /path/to/quicklisp/setup.lisp 20:12:36 howeyc: I don't recommend doing that, though, unless your application *really* needs to have quicklisp embedded in it. Better to use quicklisp's export of its system paths. 20:12:52 Xach: what are you planning to use it for? 20:13:01 stassats: Exposition. 20:13:12 stassats: I learned several things about the package system that I did not understand before. 20:13:22 I hope to help others understand, too. 20:13:40 felideon: it essentially creates objects from the db and lets you interact with them. the standard db-access-object has %persistent/modifications and %foreign-modifications (transient slots), which allows it to just work really. 20:13:55 oh, okay. Thanks 20:14:09 drewc: so it is basically an orm? mop based? 20:14:17 *Xach* strongly recommends against putting ql:quickload in any .lisp source files 99% of the time 20:14:30 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:34 Oh! 20:14:41 I'm doing it wrong then, lol 20:14:52 howeyc: Usually you would define those relationships in the system definition. 20:14:53 mathrick_ [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 20:17:20 H4ns: yes, that is essentially it. It also does SELECT-OBJECTS and the like based on cl-postgres:prepare-query... I was just trying to answer " and what else 20:18:13 drewc: thanks, sounds interesting - we might want to use that in the future. 20:19:03 i basically use it and contextl to define a description which can display the objects in different things... one does not have the webpage interact with the object, but rather the description, which is different 20:19:38 stassats: In particular, I dislike the notion that the package system is unknowably difficult and it will surprise you with problems all the time. 20:20:11 do you have an example of what you have learned along the way? 20:20:15 H4ns: that would be great! I am planning on updating the code soon, and it would be useful if someone else used it 20:21:47 stassats: I did not fully realize that SHADOW takes a symbol-name and what that means. I did not realize that EXPORT of an inherited symbol imports it first. I did not realize why SHADOWING-IMPORT was useful and necessary and how it differed from SHADOW+IMPORT. I did not appreciate how IMPORT assigned the SYMBOL-PACKAGE of symbols with no home package. 20:22:19 stassats: I mixed up present, accessible, external, and inherited - i could not keep the terminology straight. 20:22:42 drewc: I haven't used pomo's DAO much, but I'm trying to understand where rofl would help on top of it 20:23:12 stassats: I did not have a firm idea of how many situations could cause symbol conflicts (now I know it is exactly 4) 20:23:40 stassats: Also, I learned that implementations diverge on what happens when you import an apparently uninterned (but not actually uninterned) symbol. 20:23:51 felideon: well, the original DAO was not enough for my application. I have no idea what the modern DAO is like 20:24:29 stassats: That last thing came up as a consequence of having to implement it myself and wondering if a particular form should be inside or outside a particular branch. 20:24:34 Xach: that's interesting indeed, a prose write up would be useful 20:27:08 felideon: as far as i understand the documentation, daos map rows to clos instances. they do not cover relationships, and seem to be very explicit about writing and reading. 20:27:43 felideon: from an orm, i'd expect to automatically handle relationships between objects and automatically handle crud operations in transactions. 20:28:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:11 *madnificent* did such a mapping in fridge also, bknr-datastore database communication turned out to take a fair amount of time. 20:28:30 oh I see. 20:28:32 madnificent: bknr-datastore database communication? 20:28:48 *stassats* waits for zlisp 20:28:53 H4ns: no! that's what made bknr-datastore so much faster than fridge 20:28:58 stassats: zlisp? 20:29:10 madnificent: right. making an orm fast is quite a task :) 20:29:15 what does the %slot-name convention usually signify? 20:29:21 H4ns: Zach Lisp 20:29:25 or ZBCL 20:29:40 stassats: uh 20:30:30 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 20:30:30 felideon: "don't use it" 20:30:40 felideon: one thing ROFL does it allow you the have foreign-type slots so that access to the slot brings an object, and :referenced-by slots that will access a list of objects that have the primary key referenced on a column. 20:30:49 H4ns: i think it'll always be substantially slower, but that's obvious. though i must say that the read operations were far from perfect in fridge (one read per object, instead a single read for all outstanding objects when the first unknown slot was accessed) 20:30:51 ah :) 20:31:26 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:31:39 drewc: that's pretty neat 20:31:43 madnificent: it is all so much easier if you're dealing just with main memory :) 20:32:18 or some sort of Educational Common Lisp, written for better understanding of CL, not for performance 20:32:29 H4ns: yes indeed. but the database does make searches somewhat easier. with an in-memory store you have to think about how you'll want to access the data. 20:32:49 madnificent: with the database, you'll have to do it, too. 20:32:54 H4ns: in a map-reduce setting, that'd be invalid 20:33:09 Xach: I'm looking forward to your writeup! All these years and I still can't say I completely master the package system, sometimes I get "random" symbol conflicts and kind of use UNINTERN "appropriately" but without a perfect understanding of what exactly is happening... And I mix up the present/accessible/external/inherited terminology all the time too... 20:33:16 i wish computer were fast enough so that you could write clear educational code and not worry about performance all the time 20:33:20 computers 20:33:24 H4ns: true, but sql makes it declarative... i don't need to specify how i'll access it up front 20:34:13 madnificent: you don't have to do it with in-memory objects either. but i'll freely admit that sql is often more succint. 20:34:16 succinct 20:35:08 felideon: it also has join slots that will specify a join on a table with the pkey... it helps me to write an application as well :) 20:35:50 H4ns: with a mapreduce like setting much of this is gone though. you'll specify how the operation works on the complete list and let the in-memory store ensure that it has mapped over all values. i think i'll try such a thing in bknr-datastore sometime soon. it sounds like a fun thing to do (though placing limits on the amount of results to return etc might still be a pain). 20:36:57 drewc: that's what counts! :) 20:37:29 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:39:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:41:00 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:41:09 stassats: I did not respone to your lol/rofl chat thing... sorry! I also have FTW ... I suppose I am either really good with names, or not good enough so choose what I know. 20:42:14 there's a competition with ASDF, XCVB and POIU 20:43:52 for the web! 20:44:09 I stopped that naming thing I think... my two most recent projects are SMUG and PLANKS 20:44:34 although i don't pretend to name my projects, my in-memory lisp database is called "storage" 20:44:42 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 20:45:00 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 20:45:05 on the topic of naming: what would you call an alternative to bordeaux fft? 20:45:08 CTOP 20:45:27 pkhuong: napa fft? 20:46:13 Xach: that wouldn't mean much to those who don't understand cyrillic 20:47:17 otakutom_ [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:48:37 Xach: I guess it's that or bagel fft ;) 20:49:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:50:01 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:50:05 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:09 deech [9ffb0d07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.159.251.13.7] has joined #lisp 20:50:13 -!- lazybone [~yukiy@110.185.233.67] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:52:04 CTOP == Concurrent Transactional Object rePository 20:52:55 the last word causes problems 20:52:58 pkhuong: YSAS ... stands for "You're such a square!". http://markephair.com/ejokeday.html <--- search for Fourier 20:54:06 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:16 agumonkey [agumonkey@173.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:16 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@173.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:35 YuleAthas [~athas@ip1.c291.frb32.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:56:15 -!- agumonke1 [~agu@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:45 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 20:56:59 agumonkey [~agu@173.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:05 iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has joined #lisp 20:59:18 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Bye/Memento Mori] 21:00:15 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:21 Nauntilus [~Benji@ip68-231-176-93.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:18 aramil [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:33 -!- aramil is now known as nialo- 21:03:55 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 21:05:19 -!- elliottcable is now known as notakshatj 21:09:22 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:56 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129053043.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:30 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:14:22 -!- notakshatj is now known as elliotcable 21:18:02 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:19:29 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:26 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@ip1.c291.frb32.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:53 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:23:00 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 21:23:54 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.61.67] has joined #lisp 21:24:05 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 21:24:12 Greetings lispers 21:24:33 does anyone know if CLSQL:QUERY is thread safe? 21:24:47 TGIF or good morning to everyone in Chia. 21:24:56 *China* 21:24:57 ASau` [~user@95-25-46-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:25:01 Chia a pet. 21:27:05 9 21:27:12 (wrong buffer) 21:27:39 (wrongp buffer) => t 21:28:29 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-101-16.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:55 Shaftoe: as long as you don't share database resources 21:30:17 define share resources? Does a connection count? 21:30:22 Yep 21:30:29 -!- nialo- [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:42 So multiple threads can not issue clsql:query statements concurrently 21:30:45 correct? 21:31:01 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:31:39 You can, but not with the single connection 21:32:07 there's database pooling that works and with-database 21:32:16 wait, why am I telling you this. it's on the site! 21:33:04 *ThomasH* takes the spoon away from sbryant 21:33:10 http://clsql.b9.com/manual/query.html, F3: thread => nil 21:33:24 http://www.cliki.net/CLSQL 21:33:26 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 21:33:38 ahh 21:33:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-194.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:44 f3: thread => win 21:33:52 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:52 http://clsql.b9.com/manual/connect.html 21:34:04 heh. and it even says right there: "This is not obvious from the documentation" 21:34:34 I will investigate this "with-database" macro they mention. 21:34:45 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:34:51 thanks. 21:35:16 You're welcome 21:35:41 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:37:01 nialo- [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:22 -!- drewc [~user@207.6.31.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:30 -!- nialo- [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:59 -!- elliotcable is now known as elliottcable 21:43:42 drewc [~user@207.6.31.109] has joined #lisp 21:44:28 nialo- [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.168.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:50:25 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-92-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:52:20 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:53:49 -!- deech [9ffb0d07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.159.251.13.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:59:02 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.61.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:00 -!- waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:14 duomo [~duomo@120-dcmp11.goeaston.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp121-45-21-58.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:02:26 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:06 -!- rpgsimmaster_ [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 22:04:31 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:25 -!- EyesIsServer is now known as EyesIsAsleep 22:08:12 -!- knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:59 -!- rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:10:02 vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-246-120.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 22:12:13 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:40 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:29 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:33 -!- nialo- [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:14 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 22:18:53 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:09 -!- rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:26 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:39 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:11 nialo- [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:25 -!- rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:30:23 rpgsimmaster [~rpgsimmas@system00.packetstability.com] has joined #lisp 22:34:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:34:35 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.66.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:18 antgreen [~user@70.50.66.113] has joined #lisp 22:38:08 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:29 -!- nialo- [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:23 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.66.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:15 nialo- [~nialo@66-87-7-152.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:47 any easy way to make a reverse of (ldb (byte 32 0) -1)? 22:49:59 (reverse 4294967295) => -1 22:50:34 -!- dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:05 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:52:20 in sbcl, (sb-c::mask-signed-field 4294967295 32) 22:52:32 more generally, there's nothing built in 22:52:40 i would use signed-sap-ref on sbcl 22:53:09 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:58 mask-signed-field gets you the same nice properties as ldb does for arithmetic. But sure. 22:56:59 pnq [~nick@ACA214F1.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:58:10 stassats: (logior x (- (logand x sign-bit))). 22:58:19 i can think of (if (logbitp 31 x) (- -1 (ldb (byte 31 0) (lognot x))) x) 22:58:50 if minion were here I'd tell him about that advice. 22:59:48 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.44.226] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.92.1] 23:00:58 that looks better 23:01:02 stassats: it's just sign extension; we want to replicate the sign bit ad infinitum. 23:01:24 (although i don't understand it) 23:02:24 (logand x sign-bit) selects the sign bit. Negating a value with single bit replicates it to all more significant bit positions. 23:03:59 what's sign-bit? 23:04:07 (ash 1 31) for you. 23:04:09 (ldb (byte 1 31) x) doesn't seem to work 23:04:52 ah, of course 23:05:30 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 23:12:44 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp121-45-21-58.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:51 seems to be the same performance as with storing sign and absolute value separately, now, let's see how it fares with unsigned-sap-ref 23:17:38 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.127.63] has joined #lisp 23:17:40 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:46 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:15 BrianRice [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:59 BrianRice` [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:59 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:01 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 23:20:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp121-45-21-58.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:14 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:24 BrianRice [~water@97-126-49-15.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:00 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:00 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-383822.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:15 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:24:24 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:24:37 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:12 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:28 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:25:50 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:12 pkhuong: could any optimizations be done knowing that i reconstruct the integer from little endian bytes? 23:28:11 using (logior (ash 4-byte 24) (ash 3-byte 16) (ash 2-byte 8) 1-byte) 23:29:27 -!- felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:31:46 Theorically. 23:32:45 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:39:40 stassats: you're probably wasting more time in the byteswap than sign extension. 23:40:25 May your parens be balanced. 23:50:15 may the hell be without them. 23:50:43 csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has joined #lisp 23:51:14 and the heavens cheesy! 23:51:19 amen 23:53:31 using two's complement appears to be as fast as using sign and integer, but it saves space 23:58:53 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp