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01:02:33 nicdev: i don't think it's by default yet. 01:02:54 nicdev: --fancy will give you threads, core compression, and a few other things. 01:02:56 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:03:24 Xach: pkhuong, thanks will do that 01:03:30 I have this in my customize-target-features.lisp: (lambda (list) (adjoin :sb-thread list)) 01:03:36 -!- Neban [~neban@168.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:03:43 Neban [~neban@168.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:41 emit: in CL, it is legal for a function to call an undefined function so long as the undefined function becomes defined before the original function gets called. 01:05:53 or something like that. 01:07:42 you can forward-reference functions 01:08:05 but references outside the current compilation unit will result in warnings (and compilation failures) from the compiler 01:09:05 antifuchs: warnings? really? I'd expect style warnings. 01:09:21 yeah 01:10:12 pkhuong, i could understand if it's outside the current comp unit 01:11:46 asma [~chatzilla@2001:250:3003:80:224:21ff:fe09:750e] has joined #lisp 01:11:53 -!- asma is now known as Guest92297 01:12:32 -!- Guest92297 is now known as ema 01:12:49 "The compiler is permitted to issue warnings about matters of programming style as conditions of type *style-warning*. Examples of this situation are as follows: ... calling a function with a wrong number of arguments" 01:13:00 -!- ema [~chatzilla@2001:250:3003:80:224:21ff:fe09:750e] has left #lisp 01:16:37 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has joined #lisp 01:19:42 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:58 johnstorey [~johnstore@64.134.238.255] has joined #lisp 01:23:55 Ralith: i'm getting invalid message length in my postgres log when i run my app from a different computer with ccl. googled the error and your name came up. did you find out what causes it 01:25:00 emit: gimme the link to jog my memory? 01:25:07 http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/2011-08/lisp-2011.08.28.txt 01:25:15 works from sbcl 01:25:53 emit: yes, that's quite familiar; let me dig up the relevant emails... 01:26:27 it's scary all my stupid questions are getting archived in various irc logs 01:26:51 eh 01:26:55 it's normal these days 01:27:16 people're just going to have to get used to the fact that it's normal to ask stupid questions 01:27:31 It's even worse when your stupid commits (and dopey commit messages) end up living in some repository forever. 01:27:48 IIRC, I tracked this down to a protocol error 01:28:05 The most useful advice I heard on the topic was from Bruce R. Lewis: "In my experience, people are esteemed more for the presence of accomplishments than the absence of so-called stupid questions." 01:28:06 postmodern-on-ccl was sending malformatted messages to the daemon 01:28:12 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:39 ah... bummer. oh well :P 01:29:04 emit: that wasn't the answer to your question 01:29:06 just thinking aloud 01:30:05 hm, I can't find/recall where I spoke with the maintainer about this issue 01:30:09 you should contact him directly 01:30:23 oh! 01:30:26 it was a bug in CCL, I think. 01:30:40 I had intended to contact the CCL maintainers about it, but got sidetracked by university. 01:30:47 onembk [~onembk@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:47 would you like to handle that? 01:30:57 dagda [~dagda_@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:15 i will attempt to trace it down... 01:31:28 not at all familiar with ccl. just seeing if it works 01:36:26 -!- Noctifer [~Noctifer@89.204.130.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:03 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:40:17 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:19 Ralith: the undefined function can be defined AFTER being called, eg. in the debugger. 01:40:39 pjb: yes, but at that point the error has already been signalled 01:40:55 which is perfectly legal I guess 01:41:02 I suppose I meant to say "no error will be signalled if" 01:42:02 Ok, so you only need to fbind the function just before calling it. No need to have it defined before the function that calls it. 01:42:18 (progn (setf (symbol-function 'x) (lambda () 'hi)) (x)) 01:42:33 pjb: that's what Ralith said. 01:42:34 hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 01:42:54 No: emit: in CL, it is legal for a function to call an undefined function so long as the undefined function becomes defined before the original function gets called. 01:43:12 pjb: you seem to be be misreading that. 01:43:18 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:43:27 Notice you cannot write: (x (setf (symbol-function 'x) (lambda (z) 'hi))) because the function X can be obtained before evaluating the arguments. 01:43:59 Ralith: I read it with original function /= undefined function. 01:44:27 I suspect original funcction = a function, but it could be another one perhaps. 01:44:30 pjb: that's how it's meant to be read. 01:44:42 Then I'm right. Ralith is too restrictive. 01:44:59 pjb: no. 01:45:02 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@64.134.238.255] has quit [Quit: Nodding off now.] 01:45:06 (defun original-function () (setf (symbol-function 'undefined-function ) (lambda () 'hi)) (undefined-function)) 01:45:16 There's no need to define undefined-function before calling original-function. 01:45:22 pjb: yes, that's correct. 01:45:25 I did not exclude that. 01:46:00 ok. 01:46:26 I was describing the sitution that pertained to the question, not the set of all possible situations; this is why I did not say "if and only if." 01:47:07 pjb: ok. You're right. 01:47:15 (A implies B) does not imply (B implies A), etc 01:47:35 You're saying that you can apply abs(x) so long x>10, and I'm saying that this is too restrictivve, you can apply abs(x) so long x>=0. But you're right if x>10 you can also apply abs(x), and if that suits your situation, ok. 01:48:00 it's not restrictive because I make no assertion about other circumstances. 01:48:02 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:18 good morning 01:48:30 Depends on how you translate so long mathematically, I guess you're right. Time for bed here... 01:48:43 for the precise reason that CL tends to have lots of weird little cornercases and strange things to do like that 01:49:02 I'm loathe to assert that I'm aware of all possible ways to accomplish something. 01:50:55 -!- Neban [~neban@168.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Neban] 01:51:33 -!- davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:53:25 "Cells" (http://common-lisp.net/project/cells/) seems quite interesting for concurrency. Is it still being actively developed? I can't tell from the site. 01:53:50 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:54:10 deech: I don't think so. 01:54:13 deech: I don't think it supported concurrent execution. 01:54:38 Thanks! 01:56:15 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@90-154-146-229.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:57:30 spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:31 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:05 spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:01 sacho [~sacho@90.154.215.105] has joined #lisp 01:59:04 edgar-rft [~edgar@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 01:59:13 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:16 what does #+( ) and #-( ) do? can't even google for something like that 02:01:14 reader macro to conditionally skip a form 02:01:24 based on the contents of *features* 02:01:24 ah, thanks. 02:01:37 -!- edgar-rft [~edgar@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 02:01:40 if you use SLIME, it will syntax-hilight them correctly based on the current value of *features* 02:01:44 the google term is "sharp plus" or "sharpsign plus". 02:05:30 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:06:17 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:08:44 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:25 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:15:29 what's the difference between package:foo and package::foo 02:15:44 : is for exported symbols only 02:15:49 ah ok thanks 02:17:27 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 02:18:51 jacks- [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 02:22:14 hello. this seems to work but I'm not sure if it's safe to do. I have a GUI message loop running (Qt), and I'm recompiling a function that's called when button is pressed without quitting the loop 02:23:23 so it seems that slime is sending that function to lisp process in a separate thread, as the current one is blocked with a message loop 02:25:06 as I understand it, not only is that safe, it's one of the great things about CL. 02:25:24 you can do that in java too 02:25:30 yes it's amazing 02:25:31 (completely irrelevant) 02:27:09 nice to know the mainstream isn't *that* far behind. 02:27:34 There's a repl for java? 02:27:38 i have a similar set up with my lisp project right now. parsing tcp packets and i can c-c c-c packet decoders live while the stream is still connected 02:27:40 and you can recompile function at runtime in java? 02:27:42 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:27:48 and that 02:28:09 it's pretty cool, but i've done it before in java so not that big a surprise 02:29:03 kennyd: it requires proper IDE support imo. like in eclipse or netbeans you can... basically attaches to a live java vm and injects recompiled sections of the code 02:29:28 but what i like about messing around in lisp right now is i can just use emacs :D 02:30:18 I like how I don't need 4GB of ram to develop in lisp. 02:30:26 (and that's just for the IDE...) 02:30:42 slight exaggeration but i know what you're talking about ;) 02:31:03 -!- Nauntilus [~Benji@ip68-231-176-93.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:06 Ralith: that's irrelevant tbh 02:32:31 drdo: it's highly relevant to me. 02:32:41 my netbook has 2GB of RAM. 02:33:02 (and nowhere near enough screen real-estate for either of those terrible UIs) 02:33:15 You can pick up 2gb of ram for like what? 10-15 euros? 02:33:28 and it won't do me any good. 02:33:32 probably way cheaper if you are in the US 02:33:37 2GB is the maximum that the motherboard supports. 02:34:15 otherwise I'd have a 4GB stick in there, because web browsing can be a bitch these days. 02:34:46 It's not that bad :P 02:35:13 yes, actually, it is. 02:35:24 all that ajax :p 02:35:45 i got one of those free chromebooks from google. i used it for like 10 minutes 02:35:58 that seems kind of dishonest 02:36:08 I hope you gave it to someone who uses it extensively 02:36:09 sitting in a box now... everything's too sluggish 02:36:40 considering that you were required to commit to using it regularly and submitting bug reports to even apply... 02:36:46 teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has joined #lisp 02:36:59 yeah they want feedback 02:37:06 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B4A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:11 my feedback is it sucks balls and it will probably fail 02:37:19 pjb: the result of our conversation earlier this afternoon: https://github.com/AccelerationNet/collectors/commit/5978c57dca880fb96d530d043284298de70bedce 02:37:24 gabkck [~gabkck@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 02:37:41 I think they'd be more interested for you to send them examples of websites which run slowly, so they can examine optimization techniques 02:37:51 hello 02:37:54 hi 02:38:29 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF04.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:22 I still have no idea why they thought anyone would like that chromebook thing 02:40:45 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2335A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:42:33 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:35 -!- gaidal [gaidal@61.144.105.68] has quit [] 02:44:41 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:56:47 Taslem [40e9e315@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.233.227.21] has joined #lisp 02:58:32 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-1-99.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 02:58:44 Can anyone identify something wrong with this function? http://pastebin.com/x6e0sziG 02:59:19 Nevermind 02:59:56 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:56 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:59:56 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:01:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Client Quit] 03:01:40 Rapeseed [~Rapeseed@201.160.242.164] has joined #lisp 03:01:55 -!- jacks- [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 03:03:30 cheezus [~Adium@75-119-252-154.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:26 -!- gabkck [~gabkck@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 03:05:21 -!- eTarap [~chatzilla@roa76-6-82-238-233-207.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:24 gabkck2 [~gabkck2@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 03:07:29 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 03:08:48 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-68-236.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 03:08:56 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-119-252-154.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:10:43 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 03:11:31 -!- gabkck2 is now known as gabkck 03:11:43 spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:09 how can I iterate through all the live instances of a certain class? 03:13:34 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rqbabrmjavtdlhmh] has joined #lisp 03:13:47 By keeping a list of them 03:13:55 hmm 03:13:58 gabkck: there's no such thing in the standard. 03:14:24 for them to be live you would have to have a reference to them anyway, i'd assume 03:14:35 heidymadia [~saasten@61.247.42.167] has joined #lisp 03:14:43 or else they may get garbage collected... or is that wrong in lisp 03:14:46 yeah but that doesn't help 03:15:40 something has a reference, but that doesn't mean you can find it 03:16:13 gabkck: what do you want to do? 03:17:07 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:17:42 -!- PECCU [~peccu@ZL198080.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:18:05 PECCU [~peccu@ZL198080.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:20:17 nevermind I found a better way to do it 03:20:23 I don't totally remember as I rarely use CLOS, but if you control the code, I guess that you could setup an early non-specialized method to link your objects post-instantiation... that won't help for gc though, unless perhaps you can use weak references 03:21:30 this is interesting, I updated defclass person and added a new slot, and all the old instances were updated and have that slot as well. is this guaranteed or is sbcl being extra smart there 03:21:34 Mitt Romney will change the course of American economic policy and get America back to work! It is at once a deeply conservative return to policies that have served our nation well and a highly ambitious departure from the policies of our current leadership. In short, it is a plan to get America back to work. Vote Mitt Romney 2012! http://www.mittromney.com 03:21:44 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 03:22:05 gabkck: a CLOS feature 03:22:06 gabkck: it is required 03:22:40 Rapeseed: wrong channel 03:22:41 gabkck: you can have additional control over class redefinition, too. Also, don't expect the same thing to happen with structs. 03:22:46 Rapeseed: gtfo 03:23:54 I'm just using classes not structs. what additional control btw? 03:24:41 -!- Taslem [40e9e315@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.233.227.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:24:53 can i, for example, assign a default value for old instances when adding a new slot? 03:25:47 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_upda_1.htm#update-instance-for-redefined-class for example 03:26:14 For more information on Mitt Romney and his plan to get America back on track, visit http://www.mittromney.com ! 03:28:04 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has joined #lisp 03:29:35 Breaking news: Mitt Rodney boycotted for spam bots 03:29:36 heh 03:29:57 that's gotta be an obama supporter trying to drum up hate 03:30:39 romney isn't stupid enough to spam irc channels 03:32:29 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o antifuchs 03:32:47 -!- antifuchs has set mode +b *!~Rapeseed@201.160.242.164 03:32:48 wow... so i'm going through postmodern's code.. and see (write-uint4 .. obviously i can tell what that function does but i want to see the implementation so i M-. and it goes to the line that says (integer-writer 4), where integer-writer is a macro that takes number of bytes 03:32:51 that's freaking amazing 03:32:54 -!- Rapeseed [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has been kicked from #lisp by antifuchs (Your behavior is not conducive to the desired environment.) 03:35:06 also M-, brings you back where you were before pressing M-. 03:35:13 oh i was using M-* 03:35:15 same thing? 03:35:29 M-, much easier to type :D 03:36:16 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 03:36:40 brondsem [~brondsem@sourceforge/staff/dbrondsema] has joined #lisp 03:36:41 M-, is mapped to slime-pop-find-definition-stack, M-* to pop-tag-mark. not sure what's the practical difference in this case 03:37:12 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 03:39:03 dys` [~andreas@krlh-4d02b8d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:38 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7132dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:40:43 I am looking at Clojure as well as ABCL, and wondering, can I could get the immutability guarantees of Clojure using FSET? (http://common-lisp.net/project/fset/). 03:40:51 well, I know that M-, freaks out for me sometimes when I kill buffers :( 03:41:24 pnq [~nick@AC81431B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:30 mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has joined #lisp 03:41:55 -!- chenbing [~user@122.233.180.9] has left #lisp 03:42:03 chenbing [~user@122.233.180.9] has joined #lisp 03:42:32 I created defclass person with name and age slots. I added a sex slot after alraedy creating a couple of perosn instances. and I've set all the old instances sex slot to 'uknown via update-instance-for-redefined-class method. should I now recompile that method with empty body, so that in future it doesn't reset all the sex slots to 'uknown value 03:42:58 You can guarantee immutability by not mutating -- that's about it, for CL. 03:43:40 -!- antifuchs has set mode -o antifuchs 03:44:44 gabkck: redefining the method to not do an undesirable thing sounds good (: 03:44:47 it'll work 03:47:07 *sykopomp* wasn't so much thinking of using u-i-f-r-c interactively, but I guess ymmv 03:47:18 what do you mean? 03:48:26 instances seem to be updated on access, not all in one go as I update the class. so I can't recompile u-i-f-r-c with an empty body. how do I handle this 03:49:13 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:24 spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:13 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:39 -!- sellout is now known as Guest48628 03:56:00 gaidal [cosmo@61.144.105.68] has joined #lisp 03:57:03 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:59 spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:23 italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-202-204.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:59:56 -!- gabkck [~gabkck2@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:00:50 gaidal_ [~gaidal@61.144.105.68] has joined #lisp 04:00:55 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@61.144.105.68] has quit [Client Quit] 04:00:56 -!- brondsem [~brondsem@sourceforge/staff/dbrondsema] has left #lisp 04:05:44 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:06:16 Anyone aware of some erlang style conccurency for lisp? 04:07:02 <_schulte_> jsoft_: I don't know if this counts... but there are lisp bindings for zmq 04:07:44 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 04:08:41 jsoft_: Doesn't really work in practice, OS threads are very expensive 04:08:51 You'll run out of memory in no time 04:09:32 Hmm. 04:09:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:09:50 So it would require some serious mincing about in the lisp vm for it work right? 04:11:46 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:47 consider the fact that multithreading isn't even standardized across lisps...... 04:12:20 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 04:12:36 That's not even the problem, the problem is that current CL implementations use OS threads 04:12:41 Yeah 04:12:56 that's my point. i guess i didn't say it right 04:12:56 You would basically have to write an implementation 04:13:37 kdas_ [~kdas@117.201.99.35] has joined #lisp 04:13:40 to implement erlang style green threads into a lisp vm, you'd be better off implementing lispy frontend for erlang's vm 04:16:01 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:17:38 -!- deech [~user@71-11-140-18.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 04:18:07 no, I think patching it into an existing lisp impl would be easier 04:19:02 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:20:10 -!- rme [rme@705FF19F.6C775BE1.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:20:10 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:20:42 adding multithreading capabilities to a program that wasn't designed for it from the ground up is very very difficult 04:22:24 writing something to translate lisp-like syntax to erlang syntax wouldn't be trivial but in theory, not as difficult 04:22:34 but who know, i doubt anyone will try. not worth the time 04:22:37 knows* 04:23:09 Neither of those things are relevant concerns. 04:25:53 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81431B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:28:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 04:35:25 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 04:36:37 i'm reading about continuations and cl-cont, is it possible to save one in a db as a binary blob or something? 04:37:03 spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:54 I'm going to take a wild guess and say no 04:47:35 Cosman246 [~cosman246@198.134.90.180] has joined #lisp 04:47:42 -!- Cosman246 is now known as Cos|Airport 04:53:20 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@117.201.99.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:26 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:40 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:56:47 edgar-rft [~edgar@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 04:56:58 Wow, someone wrote a web server in MacLisp 04:57:09 why is that surprising? 04:57:52 It....isn't.....I just never thought I'd see it 04:58:15 do you mean someone did it *recently*? 04:58:24 Relatively 04:58:27 MACLisp 04:58:38 (sorry about the capitalization) 04:58:44 relative to what? 04:58:56 I'm confused as to why this is a thing you wouldn't expect to see 04:59:06 Relatively recently 04:59:12 as in, 2010 04:59:14 oh 04:59:17 that is surprising yes 04:59:27 maclisp systems still exist? 04:59:48 Someone must have had a copy of the spec 04:59:55 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:59:55 if there was one, in the end 05:00:27 -!- edgar-rft [~edgar@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 05:00:30 i thought maclisp was just running on old timesharing machines 05:01:00 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:37 Someone probably ported it 05:01:58 It's running on ITS on a PDP-10 emulator... 05:02:23 well, i know there is at least one site that still runs TOPS-20 with public access 05:02:26 but it's a novelty 05:02:48 I have tried to connect to that, actually 05:03:05 it redirected me to a public UNIX server, also run by the same group 05:03:18 I think CompuServe and its successors are all dead, so little PDP-10 still running 05:03:33 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:47 simh provides a pdp-10 emulator 05:04:09 The PDP-10 had a 36-bit word length 05:04:55 lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-78-138.w92-160.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:05:45 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-68-236.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 05:06:03 That meant that a cons cell could be held in one word 05:06:12 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:07:13 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:09:48 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:09:58 -!- mmullis [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:11:08 -!- Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:11:33 mmullis [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has joined #lisp 05:12:37 There's a guy who has a public-access ITS machine 05:12:55 but he asks for your full name, email address, phone number, and snailmail address 05:13:18 daniel73921 [~daniel@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:57 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:16:55 -!- daniel73921 [~daniel@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:18:42 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:07 rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has joined #lisp 05:22:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:26:59 i don't see the point of that exactly, you can run it locally in an emulator 05:28:01 Well, you don't have a community then 05:28:12 You just have one user 05:28:20 One measly luser 05:28:27 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:26 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:32:27 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-202-204.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:33:49 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.249] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:34:03 i guess 05:34:12 insofar as sharing the same machine is part of a community 05:34:50 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101209123813]] 05:38:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:40:28 tensorpudding: SIMH is good enough for running ITS, but in general, I prefer KLH10 05:41:02 klh10 is just a pdp-10 thing though 05:41:35 anyway i rather like simh's interface 05:47:22 beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-99-49-14-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:34 evening 05:49:35 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:12 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:51:27 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:51:35 -!- Cos|Airport [~cosman246@198.134.90.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:52:12 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 05:53:00 i wonder if maclisp had a repl 05:56:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.201.164.76] has joined #lisp 05:57:37 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:58:51 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 06:00:57 I think it had, but I don't remember getting it to run 06:01:29 I didn't recompile it when setting the site last time 06:01:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01:33 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:01:35 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.66.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:01:48 but I have a TOPS-20 installed somewhere, and it also has some lisps installed 06:03:04 dan23094 [~dan23094@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:08 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:29 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.122.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:35 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 06:07:31 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:47 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:15:38 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:49 -!- lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-78-138.w92-160.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:15:59 jsoft_: you maybe interested in lisp-flavoured-erlang: http://forum.trapexit.org/viewtopic.php?p=40268#40268 https://github.com/rvirding/lfe seems to be under active development 06:17:22 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 06:17:49 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:21:32 jsoft_: there is also http://common-lisp.net/project/erlang-in-lisp/ 06:23:36 YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 06:24:07 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.108.102] has joined #lisp 06:25:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:29:15 realitygrill [~realitygr@ppp-71-133-211-86.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:15 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:34:12 -!- am0c is now known as jeen_ 06:34:27 -!- jeen_ is now known as am0c 06:34:58 nostoi [~nostoi@156.Red-79-157-250.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:01 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-66-192.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:35:10 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:36:17 -!- shin_getter [~baka@125-228-254-184.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed 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[~sylecn@207.7.149.39] has joined #lisp 08:34:58 good morning everyone 08:35:30 (yes, it is a /amsg, but I love to greet everyone) 08:36:02 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:36:19 hi Blkt :) 08:36:22 hi fe[nl]ix 08:36:28 *phadthai* amsgs his reply 08:36:30 heh 08:36:35 hello 08:36:41 hi 08:38:00 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-101-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:38:00 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-101-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:38:00 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:40:09 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:41:09 -!- zipace [~hi@unaffiliated/zipace] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:17 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:17 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:46:03 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:49:25 -!- evenson 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has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:15:08 -!- PECCU is now known as peccu 13:15:20 felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:43 -!- pnq [~nick@AC818723.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:17:01 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.234.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:51 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:18:03 hello 13:18:14 pnq [~nick@AC818723.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:25 first kuma http server crying has came to life :) 13:22:49 award85 [~itsame@unaffiliated/award85] has joined #lisp 13:24:36 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 13:26:19 -!- Cos|Airport [~cosman246@65.14.229.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:30:51 I did not know servers could cry, Lisp is not only flexible but miraculous too :D 13:31:05 St. Lisp ? 13:31:57 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-218-243.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:07 13:34:29 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.33.48] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 -!- mmullis [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has left #lisp 13:37:11 chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:27 Cos|Airport [~cosman246@65.14.229.26] has joined #lisp 13:38:40 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:16 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:40:49 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.131] has joined #lisp 13:42:00 servers cry when you something inferior like php on them 13:43:56 I think you accidentally a word 13:44:50 heh 13:44:57 lol,I meant s/crying/vagitus/ (if vagitus is english too) 13:45:36 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-024.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:45:47 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-39-151-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Nodding off now.] 13:46:05 -!- Cos|Airport [~cosman246@65.14.229.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46:13 no 13:46:21 0_0 13:46:27 yes: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vagitus 13:46:29 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:48 :) 13:47:02 happy birthday do it :) 13:47:07 mmullis [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has joined #lisp 13:47:09 good old latin :) 13:47:23 vagitus sounds like a disease men get when they're afraid of touching women 13:47:32 oooook 13:47:32 "I might catch Vagitus!" 13:47:33 hehe 13:48:09 I try to declaim that a function returns a list with (fixnum structure-type structure-type ...)) 13:48:10 seems to be a popular reason for not touching women :) 13:48:26 but I'm not too sure about the syntax 13:48:28 so how do you call the cry af a newly born baby ? 13:48:35 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mdf2c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48:43 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 13:48:51 flip214: nested specs of (cons type type) will do, but only when ... means something finite. 13:48:53 (declaim (ftype (function (...) (list fixnum . (list structure-type) )))) ?? 13:49:22 well, the fixnum is always there .. but there might be 0 structures, too 13:49:32 would (cons ...) allow for a NIL there, too? 13:49:41 flip214: type of nil is NULL 13:50:07 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-67-248-14-24.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 13:50:10 e.g. (cons fixnum (cons structure-object null)) 13:50:26 can I declare a list, too? 13:50:31 ie. 0 or more elements? 13:50:47 (cons fixnum (list structure-object)) ? 13:50:48 eMBee: I was doing a search yesterday in Github "lisp" and it came up with 2100 results more or less, in the first few pages almost 80% of them were some kind of lisp compiler or DSL . Including a lisp2PHP compiler 13:51:16 -!- peccu is now known as PECCU 13:51:39 flip214: no (there is no (LIST ...) typespec, only LIST -- nothing about element types and length) 13:51:56 makes you wonder, how many people "secretly" use lisp and make it appear like another language 13:52:10 so I'd have to use (cons fixnum (cons (or null structure-type) (or null cons))) 13:52:36 flip214: you can also write a deftype to generate something like this from something easier to write. 13:53:38 kilon: about all of them. 13:53:55 vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:53:57 :D 13:54:41 -!- vervic [~vervic@chello080109071009.14.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:49 afaik, no one was fired for thinking in Lisp, though :) 13:54:49 Any good tutorials/explanations about types in teh internets? deftype, declare, declaim, etc.? 13:55:18 http://l1sp.org/cl/declare and so on 13:55:34 flip214: What is your goal? 13:55:59 flip214: I mean, what do you hope to achieve by learning about types? To make something run faster? To catch errors? 13:56:01 deftype satisfies: http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=deftype+satisfies+group%3Acomp.lang.lisp+author%3Apascal+author%3Abourguignon&btnG=Search 13:56:07 flip214: one of the most important things to remember is "no recursive deftype" rule 13:56:08 a) making things a bit more readable b) declaring types as narrowly as possible for b1) type checking and b2) performance 13:56:25 as of performance, that's entirely implementation-specific 13:56:30 pjb: thanks, looking through it 13:56:45 akovalenko: sure 13:57:18 as of typechecking, SBCL's "declarations are assertions" approach is uncommon; most of the time, you want check-type, etypecase, typep... for this purpose. 13:57:19 but if I get the wrong type in a variable told immediately it's easier to debug 13:57:31 The question is whether and when your implementation use those deftype for anything. 14:00:06 flip214: It can be a tradeoff. Having thorough and eager typechecking can make things hard to evolve. 14:00:08 -!- sorabji5252 [~user@ip72-199-176-160.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:20 Xach: yes, of course. 14:00:21 sorabji5252 [~user@ip72-199-176-160.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:43 that's why I'd like to declare the types via deftype ... then it's easy to change them, as necessary 14:04:26 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:04:45 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 14:05:32 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:45 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 14:06:35 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:15 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:09:50 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:35 Xach: that one was psychic 14:11:36 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 14:13:41 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:13:41 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 14:15:55 H4ns: it's very frustrating! 14:16:21 CCL is now available via the Mac App Store: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clozure-cl/id489900618?mt=12 14:16:38 -!- Guest48628 is now known as sellout 14:17:02 sellout: http://xach.livejournal.com/300244.html#comments 14:17:05 Xach: you don't say. 14:17:58 Xach: that's really neat 14:18:00 Xach: I just saw that it hadn't been mentioned in-channel yet. 14:18:22 Oh just out curiosity any of you sbcl users can you quickload glop or cl-opengl? 14:18:27 in a slime repl 14:18:31 That was the important part 14:18:54 sbryant: I can (on Linux) 14:19:08 sellout: Right, I am linking to a question on the topic that I don't know how to answer. 14:19:11 I think I'm getting bitten by the dladdr problem on Darwin 14:20:02 Xach: Oh, I see 0 comments on that post. 14:20:04 Which is fixed in head 14:20:31 sellout: hmm 14:20:51 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:54 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:21:08 looks like lj screwed up. how about now? 14:21:50 Xach: I see 1 comment on your blog index 14:21:58 but no comments when I click the link 14:22:07 Maybe the cache hasn't expired? 14:22:08 ugh 14:23:16 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.215.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:58 sacho [~sacho@90.154.215.105] has joined #lisp 14:24:03 Xach: I was going to use SBCL for playing around with glop or cl-opengl bindings but CCL has that sweet Cocoa binding 14:24:25 That might make things substantially easier 14:25:34 sbryant: I think I recall some issues about which thread things start in, too. 14:26:26 Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:28 ? 14:26:30 Xach: My Safari is going crazy  I guess I really should reboot to get the latest version installed. 14:26:49 rudi_ [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:27:02 Oh you mean about the bindings and CCL? Or re:SBCL dl fixes? 14:27:17 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has joined #lisp 14:28:01 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 14:28:23 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.163.183] has joined #lisp 14:29:05 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:29:09 Greetings lispers 14:29:40 Morning 14:29:44 Xach: I follow your quickproject article http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html, and I add an asdf register in ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d$ ls 01-chenbingstudio.conf,which content is ((:tree "/home/chenbing/studio/lisp/studio/")). Now I can (quickproject:make-project "~/studio/lisp/studio/test_iter/" :depends-on '(iterate)). the files are create true, and I can quickload "test_iter", but 14:29:45 (asdf:initialize-source-registry) complaints "Invalid source registry ((:TREE "/home/chenbing/studio/lisp/studio/")) in #P"/home/chenbing/.config/common-lisp/source-registry..." (will be skipped) 14:30:12 chenbing: You have too many parens. 14:30:14 chenbing: no double parens 14:30:23 was it (:source-registry (:tree ...)) ? 14:30:30 No. 14:30:32 it's just (:tree ...) in the confs 14:31:11 ok . thanks 14:31:13 And no need to initialize the source registry or at least I never do 14:31:32 chenbing: I don't use the source registry any more. I just put things in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/. I need to update my guide. 14:31:36 I notice that everyone seems to quote the entire path, but it is more robuts to define it as (:tree "home" "chenbing" "studio" "lisp" "studio") especially if you have any directories with spaces. 14:31:52 It's called lisp for a reason. 14:32:14 meh it doesn't matter 14:32:21 Hell you could do it with the environment variable 14:32:26 and not fuss with any files 14:34:00 Yep. That will be great 14:36:08 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:49 wolfpython [~wolf@221.226.210.27] has joined #lisp 14:37:33 Xach: would you consider making .cache/common-lisp configurable? Then I could stuff things below ~/Library/Caches/ 14:37:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@161.Red-79-148-232.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:49 (which is not backed up by default) 14:37:53 rudi: that's ASDF and it follows a standard 14:38:01 ah ok 14:38:12 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-searches-for-systems 14:38:14 I guess local-projects will support symbolic link 14:38:16 rudi: You can set that up using ASDF. 14:39:03 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@221.226.210.27] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:39:15 thanks all 14:39:38 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 14:39:40 wolfpython [~wolf@221.226.210.27] has joined #lisp 14:40:03 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:10 G'morning all. 14:40:55 hi nyef 14:41:07 morning! 14:43:02 ThomasH: Your opinion remind me what h4nt talks about SYSpath 14:44:54 chenbing: I didn't see that. My opinion is based on the experience of migrating between systems. I use (:tree (:home "Lisp")) in my ASDF config which makes the migration painless. 14:45:50 great view, I believe 14:46:38 chenbing: Well, it works. I like sbryant's comment about not having config files, but I've never bothered setting that up. 14:47:08 I still have a config 14:47:37 That's just like dbkg and aptget 14:47:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-024.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:49:06 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49:49 I've been thinking about how to use (asdf:initialize-source-registry (:source-registry (:tree (:home "Lisp")) :inherit-configuration)) in init files. The main problem with that approach is that I use, or at least experiment with, multiple implementations. Not sure where to put it. 14:50:06 You can't extend the configuration at runtime via function calls. 14:50:55 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.76.199] has joined #lisp 14:50:56 ThomasH: I have all of my implementation specific rc files load a central file that contains my repl utilities 14:51:56 Xach: Really? What's the point of initialize-source-registry? 14:52:08 ThomasH: fucked if i know. 14:52:13 I have never used that 14:53:04 ThomasH: i haven't gotten the impression that the way i want to use the source registry (by extending it incrementally over the life of the session) was not considered in the design 14:53:31 I base that on feedback from the mailing list prompted by direct questions about how to do it. 14:53:47 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 14:54:25 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:54:47 Maybe in, that far off place called, the future will it be possible. 14:55:03 Xach: Ok. I think that initialize-source-registry will update the search tree but I can see how it will not synchronize with existing systems. 14:55:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 14:55:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:59 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 14:56:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.215.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:56:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 14:56:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:39 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 14:56:59 Xach: If you were moving systems that were loaded and updating the search tree, I doubt any of the system definitions in the *defined-systems* table get updated and then things probably start breaking. 14:57:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 14:57:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:58 ThomasH: that was indeed a source of breakage but i think it has been fixed. i want something less exciting, though: i downloaded new project foo and put it in foo/ and now I want to load it. 14:58:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 14:58:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:24 sbryant: I think it's called XCVB. ;-) 14:58:40 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:58 *Xach* does not have high hopes for XCVB 14:59:09 I'll have to check that out 14:59:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 14:59:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:14 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:59:15 but I ended up doing that on my own 14:59:22 and more lazy about it 14:59:33 I just compile dependency cores 14:59:41 And then use those to load up code to test 14:59:51 Xach: I would have naively assumed that (initialize-source-registry (:source-registry (:tree (:home "foo")) :inherit-configuration) would accomplish that. 14:59:54 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:00:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:25 I also turned off asdf features like output translations to make sure it didn't regenerate fasls 15:00:30 and that seemed to do the trick 15:00:46 My impression of XCVB is that it is too sophisticated for my purposes. I really to like using that much brain power on system management. 15:00:55 *really don't* 15:01:01 ThomasH: now you know better. that form clobbers whatever past stuff you had. 15:01:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:01:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:29 hah 15:01:30 Xach: :inherit-configuration is false advertising. 15:01:46 tantalizing 15:01:48 tensorpudding [~michael@99.32.59.66] has joined #lisp 15:01:51 XCVB looks okay, but I'd rather see more use of ASDF 15:02:00 I mean the concepts are there 15:02:04 and it is essentially make 15:02:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:34 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 15:02:43 That is to say I already have a make driving another make (asdf) and this would be yet another make 15:02:59 Who will make the makers? 15:03:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:03:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:24 hah 15:03:50 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@221.226.210.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:03:54 -!- kephas is now known as nowhere_man 15:04:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:04:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:05:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:03 Although I could be doing terrible things 15:06:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:06:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:13 but the binaries seem to run on OS X and Linux with no real problems 15:06:28 Save for and dynamic library paths 15:07:13 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:07:14 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:12 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:08:13 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:09:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:10:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:41 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:11:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:14 The only problem I really had is that asdf really wanted to regenerate the fasls if they weren't there 15:11:38 even though it had compiled and dumped and executable image with the systems already loaded 15:12:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:12:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:13:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:14:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:15:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:52 -!- cl1 [~cl1@adsl-99-75-115-2.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:16:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:17:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:54 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db578b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:19:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:19:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:14 hakzsam [~hakzsam@bg266-1-88-183-246-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:17 cl1 [~cl1@adsl-99-57-149-11.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:23 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:20:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:05 Looking through the XCVB presentation, it's the transitive dependencies that bother me. I used to explicitly list all dependencies in ASDF, but that is a nightmare to maintain. 15:21:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:21:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:23 Noctifer [~Noctifer@89.204.130.180] has joined #lisp 15:21:54 ThomasH: I would say a nightmare worth pursuing. 15:22:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:22:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:42 teggi [~teggi@123.20.53.18] has joined #lisp 15:23:13 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db578b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:32 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:23:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:23:55 sbryant: It probably is. I've started segmenting projects into finer grained modules, so that cleans things up a bit. Transitive dependency maintenance is probably a worse nightmare. 15:24:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:24:12 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:25:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:25:12 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:25:29 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:56 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:56 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:25:56 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 15:26:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:26:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:44 -!- pnq [~nick@AC818723.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:28:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:28:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:17 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:29:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:29:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:11 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db578b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:47 if an array is not adjustable, how can I modify its content ? (let ((str "hello")) (setf (aref str 1) #\x) str) gives a warning condition 15:30:02 This array is a literal vector! 15:30:06 You cannot modify literals. 15:30:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:30:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:17 (let ((str (copy-seq "hello"))) (setf (aref str 1) #\x) str) 15:30:27 Well, you CAN inmany implementation, but you probably don't want to 15:30:47 The other thing that saves me is that I don't use ASDF for incremental changes. Incremntal changes occur in the running lisp image. XCVB is an industrial build system solving industrial problems that I don't have. 15:30:51 pjb seen :) 15:31:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:31:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:06 How does (copy-seq "hello") differ from (string "hello") 15:32:07 ? 15:32:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:32:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:17 ThomasH: Many of the changes in ASDF2 were more clear to me when I heard about how they solved specific problems encountered by ITA. 15:32:55 ThomasH: (defun hello () (string "hello")) (eq (hello) (hello)) 15:33:02 For example, when files had odd ad-hoc version control names like foo.lisp.2 that weren't parsed the same way on different lisps. "aha, time to make up our own namestring syntax" in ASDF2 15:33:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:33:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:28 ThomasH: ..and (defun hello* () (copy-string "hello")) (eq (hello*) (hello*)) 15:33:36 *copy-seq 15:34:02 akovalenko: Just realized that reading the hyperspec page on STRING 15:34:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:34:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:31 (let ((s "hello")) (eq (string s) s)) --> T 15:34:34 -!- easyE [sMRmtpTuBm@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:35:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:23 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-385074.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:36:05 xpololz [~xpol@50.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:36:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:16 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-blkgwhoyxzrtndxa] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:25 If you're going to be modifying the string, maybe MAKE-STRING is really the way to go. 15:37:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:37:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:38:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:56 ThomasH: make-string initialization is lame. More often you want copy-seq or format. 15:39:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:39:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:31 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 15:40:04 But the reality is that you really very rarely want to modify strings... 15:40:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:40:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:20 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:40:42 nyef: (ldiff cpl (cdr (member particular-class cpl))) seems more appealing to me somehow. (than subseq + position) 15:41:10 pjb: Yeah, I can't think of the last time I modified a string. Hadn't thought to use format to generate one for that purpose. 15:41:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:41:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:42:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:43:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:43:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:44:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:44:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:45:12 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:45:30 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:05 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:46:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:41 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.62.142] has joined #lisp 15:47:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:47:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:48:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:38 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 15:49:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:49:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:11 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:50:11 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:27 _nix00 [~Adium@114.86.213.24] has joined #lisp 15:50:54 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.249] has joined #lisp 15:51:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:51:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:10 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 15:52:10 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:15 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 15:52:23 -!- Zhivago has set mode +b krl!*@* 15:52:28 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 15:55:18 Zhivago: Who is krl? 15:55:26 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.163.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:06 Xach: Someone whose connection is causing him to spam the channel. 15:56:22 Ah, sorry. I'll check logs next time. 15:56:29 *Xach* has that stuff ignored lately 15:56:48 yeah I generally do but I'm on ERC without any custom config 15:57:33 onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:38 dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:00 It's amazing how much stuff I miss with erc-hide-list '("JOIN" "PART" "QUIT") 15:58:28 That covers a lot of noise. 15:58:56 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:43 It requires a mental shift when looking through the channel logs. I'm just not accustomed to seeing all of that stuff. 16:01:32 -!- twopi_ [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:02:15 X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1400:b::b793] has joined #lisp 16:02:43 I added tailored exception list from ignores for that 16:03:36 (so I know when certain people show up, but I don't get everyone) 16:04:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:04:17 p_l|backup: whitelist or blacklist? 16:04:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:05:16 rcirc-omit-mode is a bit more clever w.r.t. ("JOIN" "PART" "QUIT"); when there was a message from a user, his PART/QUIT becomes visible. 16:05:46 ThomasH: whitelist 16:05:58 *akovalenko* didn't look too deep at erc and rcirc customization facilities, though 16:06:12 akovalenko: That's a nice feature. 16:06:34 p_l|backup: I would have guessed that. Less maintenance. 16:06:41 I have *: JOINS PARTS QUITS MODES as main ignore, then a whitelist 16:07:07 -!- lazybone_ [~yukiy@110.185.233.67] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:07:15 (and three cases of blacklisted people) 16:07:31 Hah! Just for good measure. 16:07:36 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 16:09:00 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has left #lisp 16:09:08 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:33 one of them was a troll, another was just plain stupid (ignorant?) 16:09:41 p_l|backup: ...people whose names can't be mentioned :) 16:10:12 heh 16:10:14 p_l|backup: ignorance is correctable, ignorance+laziness is punishable. :-) 16:10:34 Both of them are well known in the channels they inhabit 16:10:51 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 16:11:00 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:01 p_l|backup: I hope you give people enough time to measure the dStupidity/dt 16:11:01 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:25 iwillig [~ivan@66.209.120.98] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 akovalenko: I rarely put someone on full ignore... though I noticed that I'm much snarkier lately 16:12:13 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 16:12:28 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has joined #lisp 16:12:44 Neban [~neban@65.Red-88-18-194.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:00 -!- ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:18:25 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:19:23 tfb [~tfb@92.40.128.72.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:20:47 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:29 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:43 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:21:52 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:22:21 ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:22:22 dcrawford_ [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:22 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:32 -!- dcrawford_ [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 16:22:39 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:52 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:37 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:26:34 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.128.72.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:07 vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-155-056.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 16:28:29 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.62.142] has left #lisp 16:36:58 -!- Noctifer [~Noctifer@89.204.130.180] has left #lisp 16:38:17 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:02 mmullis` [~user@2002:d041:5ae9:1234:21d:7dff:fe01:9061] has joined #lisp 16:48:14 Why does this return T: (every #'digit-char-p "") 16:48:15 BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.234.78] has joined #lisp 16:48:28 mon_key: which char in "" is not a digit? 16:48:40 which is? 16:49:04 every char that is there is also a digit :) 16:49:05 mon_key: Read the 3rd paragraph under the description of EVERy in the hyperspec. 16:49:06 i.e. (notevery #'digit-char-p "") => nil 16:49:14 -!- mmullis` [~user@2002:d041:5ae9:1234:21d:7dff:fe01:9061] has quit [Client Quit] 16:49:27 mon_key: why does (or) return NIL and (and) return T? 16:50:58 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:20 I would think that every/notevery would return similiarly to (char "" 0) => out of bounds error 16:52:19 aristotelian meaning of every/any/all is not the one commonly used by programmers... 16:52:33 wangchangli [~user@118.186.129.186] has joined #lisp 16:53:33 I nominate gigamonkey to write a sequel to PCL titled "Thinking in Lisp". (Thanks to Bruce Eckel for the meme) 16:54:13 mon_key: why? 16:54:26 The first argument to PREDICATE is an element of the first sequence. 16:55:16 mon_key: "If the end of a sequence is reached, every returns true." 16:55:44 mon_key: So, I guess the debate is whether this makes sense? 16:55:45 and likewise b/c the execptional circumstances clause leaves open the possibility of other errors depending on PREDICATE 16:55:50 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:56:20 ThomasH: It makes sense because the empty-string is "complicated" (-: 16:57:47 mon_key: I actually rely on this aspect of the behavior of EVERY, just implemented something recently where that was the desired result for an empty sequence. 16:57:58 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:58:10 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:58:55 ThomasH: OK. what was the use case? 16:59:22 mon_key: Dammit, I was afraid you were going to ask that. Let me see if I can remember. 17:00:06 ThomasH: Don't bother I can imagine. 17:00:48 mon_key: Thanks. I just recall reading the hyperspec page and being relieved that that was the result. 17:04:37 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:05:53 hrm, M-- M-x slime doesn't seem to be acknowledging slime-lisp-implementations .. spelling/var-help/content appears correct .. 17:06:16 *Xach* is delighted by finding a possible bug in SBCL! 17:07:36 ThomasH: Here's mine -- which is borken b/c of EVERY's said behaviour: (when (every #'digit-char-p ) (format nil "~V,'0d" 6 (parse-integer string))) 17:08:55 mon_key: I can see how you would prefer NIL. 17:08:57 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890505.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:09:01 Throw in a (and (plusp (length string)) ...) 17:09:32 Xach: yes of course or likesie could m-v-b parse-integer with :junk-allowed t 17:09:52 johnstorey [~johnstore@12.208.167.194] has joined #lisp 17:10:23 On a side note, it's always bothered me that there is a standard PARSE-INTEGER, but no standard PARSE-FLOAT. 17:10:47 ThomasH: ISTR arnesi having one 17:11:08 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc1-midd16-2-0-cust160.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:10 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:12:08 mon_key: There are many, LW has one as an extension, it's the non-standard part that bugs me. 17:13:27 Hah! If it's not a bug, it's at least an area of divergent interpretations. 17:13:37 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:13:53 ThomasH: maybe had something to do with unreliability of floating-point maths? 17:13:58 Xach: do tell! 17:14:01 *Xach* is so excited 17:14:02 SBCL devs think they're so smart 17:15:00 Probably the CMUCL devs are responsible. CMUCL, SBCL, and ABCL behave one way, CLISP, ECL, and AllegroCL another. 17:15:11 *Xach* checks lispworks for good measure 17:16:07 mon_key: the spec for CL:IMPORT says this: "If any symbol to be imported has no home package (i.e., (symbol-package symbol) => nil), import sets the home package of the symbol to package." 17:16:15 immediately followed by this: "If the symbol is already present in the importing package, import has no effect." 17:16:21 mon_key: In a round about way. Because of the representation of irrational numbers coupled with the inexact text representation, generating the most exact float from text is non-trivial. Still, it's a solved problem, although I think the solution may have been around the same time as the spec. 17:16:26 mega1 [~user@2E6BB436.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 17:16:44 mon_key: It looks like SBCL, etc have the first sentence take priority, while others have the second sentence take priority. 17:16:50 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:17:12 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:49 *Xach* has some short code to demonstrate 17:17:50 too bad there is no COND in English :) 17:18:15 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 17:18:16 -!- wangchangli [~user@118.186.129.186] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:18:19 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:20:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126631 17:20:46 gotta quickly vent, since this caused instant facepalm: discussing code check-in procedures/philosophy with $PROJECT_LEADER: $PL: "even before QA, we should check in the code and if it needs review we can do that since it is now shared with everyone" ... good thing I just work here. 17:20:53 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:21:09 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.76.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:05 *Xach* wonders about Xof's thoughts on the matter 17:23:00 Xach: That seems like a pathological example to me, is based on an actually scenario? 17:23:54 ThomasH: (symbol-package (make-symbol "buuba")) 17:24:00 I guess I don't understand where you would use a symbol without a home package. 17:24:38 ThomasH: in (hygienic) macros. 17:24:59 ThomasH: GENSYM returns homeless symbols. 17:25:02 ThomasH: Hehe, the spec even calls it a pathological case in http://l1sp.org/cl/22.1.3.3.1 17:25:18 see also http://l1sp.org/cl/glossary/apparently_uninterned 17:26:05 ThomasH: No, it's not from any real case. I am implementing a sketch of the package system, from reading the spec, to get a through-and-through understanding of the package system. This is an implementation detail that prompted me to check what other implementations did. 17:26:23 Basically "Should this be inside the conditional or outside?" 17:26:36 pjb: That makes sense, except that I'm not sure why you would be importing those symbols. 17:27:00 ThomasH: it may happen, eventually. 17:27:19 Xach: Ah, now I understand how you came to this point. That's a great way to understand something. 17:27:54 I hope to turn this sketch into a better package system tutorial than Ron Garret's loathsome guide. 17:28:24 heh. 17:28:51 Rather than "This is confusing and you will get burned", more like "Here are the concepts and simplified implementation, now here's how to understand why you might get a conflict that you did not naively expect" 17:29:59 Xach: That's a great idea. 17:30:57 I hope I can finish it, and do a good job. I'm sick of people referring to documentation and tutorials from people who clearly don't like Common Lisp. 17:31:20 I like Common Lisp, I think the package system is useful and worth knowing well, and should not be feared. 17:32:16 -!- dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:23 onembk1 [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:32 dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:36 -!- onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:00 Xach: RG's packages section 4 page 10 gives a similar example/discussion as your paste no? 17:33:29 eventually, Xah Lee will start writing CL tutorials, and then all current ones will seem full of respect and greatness 17:33:44 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:05 mon_key: Yes, but without the subsequent check of the implications of IMPORT. 17:34:27 Xach: OK, got it. 17:35:34 YuleAthas [~athas@ip1.c291.frb32.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:35:38 -!- onembk1 [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:40 -!- dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:42 onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:45 -!- onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:35:53 dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:58 Looking through the ToC, PCL seems to cover the topics in "Thinking in Java". A "Thinking in Lisp" book would be better modeled after "Thinking in Patterns", just based on a scan of the ToC. 17:36:02 onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:19 could you tell me why I have this error ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/126632 17:36:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:34 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:36:54 kiuma: show your defclass for body-stream 17:37:00 *Xach* hopes to avoid words like "surprising", "weird", "annoying", "mysterious", "dangerous", "hairy", "unfortunate", "confusing", "not straightforward" 17:37:01 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.93.110] has joined #lisp 17:37:30 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.53.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:43 kiuma: and you shouldn't define method for read-sequence if you aren't shadowing it 17:37:44 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 17:38:14 akovalenko: Although, it would be nice to be able to do that. 17:38:31 akovalenko, I'm shadowing read-sequence 17:39:03 akovalenko, http://paste.lisp.org/display/126632#1 17:39:07 Xach: yeah, these words are better saved up for reviews of your work ((-: 17:39:31 mega1` [~user@2E6BB436.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 17:39:55 kiuma: if you use Gray streams, inherit from a Gray stream superclass[es] 17:40:00 I'm using it in a concatenated stream that I'll read with read-sequence 17:40:10 -!- mega1` [~user@2E6BB436.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:59 -!- onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:41:16 onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:24 mmm, maybe it is a better solution than a nearly-a-stream 17:41:43 kiuma: btw, are you _using_ an appropriate package for stream-read-sequence? (sb-gray in sbcl, trivial-gray-streams for portability layer,...) 17:42:22 I'm already using trivial-gray-stream 17:43:05 subclass trivial-gray-streams:fundamental-binary-input-stream then 17:43:52 (I'm not sure it's the only problem, but it /is/ a problem anyway) 17:45:38 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 17:45:41 tfb [~tfb@92.40.128.72.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:46:19 I need to implement stream-read-byte too ... sigh 17:46:54 humasect [~humasect@OSHWON95-1176260417.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:46:59 I'll take a deeper look at chunga 17:47:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-114.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:32 anyway subclassing trivial-gray-streams:fundamental-binary-input-stream seems to be the path 17:48:29 -!- humasect [~humasect@OSHWON95-1176260417.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 17:48:41 humasect [~humasect@OSHWON95-1176260417.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:49:37 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-385074.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:49:51 kiuma: there's also trivial-gray-streams:trivial-gray-stream-mixin. Adding it as another superclass provides some workarounds for implementation differences. 17:52:41 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384025.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:54:24 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 17:57:06 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396790.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:58:01 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db578b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:53 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384025.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:18 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.86.213.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:28 is there a way to bind last element of a sequence with destructuring-bind ? 18:06:46 osa1: Yes. Enumerate all the elements before it. 18:07:18 If you don't know how many elements there are, you can't. 18:07:52 ok, thanks 18:08:00 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:08:49 Xach: don't forget "here be dragons" 18:08:53 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:04 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:21 ok, cl-freetype2 is done for now .. not terribly generally-useful, but i needed it :P 18:13:08 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.249] has joined #lisp 18:14:01 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:55 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:22 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 18:23:53 YuleAtha` [~athas@ip1.c291.frb32.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:23:54 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.128.72.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:49 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@ip1.c291.frb32.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:26 -!- YuleAtha` is now known as YuleAthas 18:25:30 sacho [~sacho@90.154.215.105] has joined #lisp 18:26:18 Hi all, quick question on using SETF/DELETE on a hash of lists versus just using DELETE. http://paste.lisp.org/+2PPL 18:26:53 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:09 yes, there's a difference. 18:27:30 SurlyFrog: try to delete 1, 2, and 3, and see the difference. 18:27:50 Or for more fun, try to delete 3, 2, and 1. 18:28:14 pjb: meaning, (delete 3 ) then (delete 2 ) then (delete 1 )? 18:28:19 yes. 18:28:20 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hwhvxvfutkwrpbxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29:21 -!- lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-78-138.w92-160.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:29:28 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:29:55 SurlyFrog: Read Side Effects on the hyperspec page for DELETE. 18:30:09 pjb: thanks. I see that there is definitely something odd about that. The quick test I ran (delete 2) seemed to yield the same result. But I guess some stuff was going on under the covers. Thanks all 18:30:56 SurlyFrog: the point is that (let ((l (list 1))) (delete 1 l)) returns nil, but doesn't change the binding of l from a cons cell to nil. 18:31:36 okay 18:31:40 SurlyFrog: another problem is that while DELETE is _allowed_ to modify the conses, it is not obliged to do so. It could be implemented as: (defun delete (&rest args) (apply 'remove args)) 18:31:42 I think I see that 18:34:38 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:35:10 The use of just (lambda ) and #'(lambda ) is simply a question of style, correct? For instance in a call to MAPCAR? 18:35:24 yes 18:35:48 pjb: thanks. 18:35:53 just checking. 18:36:40 SurlyFrog: It's actually a matter of religion. Choose wisely, or you shall be smitten. ;-) 18:36:52 :-) 18:37:42 Now that I know that, I can just randomly pick sides and troll. 18:38:13 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:28 -!- mmullis [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:41:44 ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 18:44:27 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:45:51 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.39] has joined #lisp 18:48:04 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 18:50:34 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:04 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:58 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:16 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:55:02 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-221-50.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:56:23 Kron__ [~Kron@129-97-120-56.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:57:27 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:30 Noctifer [~Noctifer@82.113.121.12] has joined #lisp 19:00:40 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-221-50.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:04:08 -!- Neban [~neban@65.Red-88-18-194.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:04:15 Neban [~neban@65.Red-88-18-194.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:15 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 19:04:31 seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:19 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:09:56 mmullis [~mmullis@208.65.90.233] has joined #lisp 19:16:10 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:18:35 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:22 -!- ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:29:09 I'm using wget to try and hit a hunchentoot handler, but it keeps reporting 500 internal server error and giving no further information. The server should be sending some sort of response body as well as the headers, is there some way to persuade wget to show me it? 19:29:31 (For that matter, I can probably predict what the body should be, but validation would be nice.) 19:29:38 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:30 -!- Neban [~neban@65.Red-88-18-194.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Neban] 19:31:58 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 19:32:12 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 19:33:09 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:35:49 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.197.234.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:32 I think this: wget -S -O - 19:38:50 Doesn't return the body, unfortunately. 19:39:26 That's basically what I'm using, modulo a --post-data= parameter. 19:39:32 Works for me. 19:40:01 It's just giving me the headers. 19:40:20 I suppose it's possible that the body is empty, but it seems unlikely. 19:40:27 What does the content-length header say? 19:40:34 -!- Noctifer [~Noctifer@82.113.121.12] has left #lisp 19:40:39 "Content-Length: 142" 19:40:56 Yes, it does seem like you should get 142 octets of something. 19:41:20 The problem being that I don't. 19:41:45 "curl -D - " might behave more sensibly 19:42:07 I don't appear to have curl on this linux box. 19:42:08 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:42:42 Hrm. But it's available on the OSX side. That could work. 19:44:03 -!- prip [~foo@host41-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:44:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:44:41 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.215.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:43 Yeah, curl did the trick. Thanks. 19:45:19 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:42 pnq [~nick@AC814462.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:41 -!- benny [~benny@i577A258E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:46:52 Drakma also might have worked nicely :) 19:47:04 sacho [~sacho@90.154.223.98] has joined #lisp 19:47:39 Oh, probably, but I wanted to hit it from something outside the lisp process. 19:48:24 I'm reading about class precedence lists. It seems that the logic for the ordering of the class precedence list applies to system definitions, whether ASDF or XCVB. It seems to me that the CLOs mechanisms readily apply to system dependencies and would obviate some of the dependency issues that ASDF has. 19:50:39 Hrm. My input parsing is definitely happening, but my database update is getting silently dropped... 19:52:02 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:52:22 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.223.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:24 ... oh. I'm abandoning the transaction. Oops. 19:54:07 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-90-38.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:49 sacho [~sacho@90.154.216.167] has joined #lisp 19:55:39 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@ip1.c291.frb32.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:02 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890505.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:45 prip [~foo@host26-132-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:00:12 dan38478 [~dan38478@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:42 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.216.167] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:04:16 sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-117.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:06:04 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-117.btc-net.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:06:24 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:34 sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-117.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:07:02 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:57 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-117.btc-net.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:08:29 sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-117.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:10:22 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-170-117.btc-net.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:10:22 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128160190.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:12:38 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:45 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:24:06 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:10 -!- dan38478 [~dan38478@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:24:26 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:36 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:02 setheus [~setheus@cpe-76-183-42-9.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:34 j2002ba2 [~chatzilla@nirved.ddns.playtime.bg] has joined #lisp 20:31:27 -!- j2002ba2 [~chatzilla@nirved.ddns.playtime.bg] has left #lisp 20:33:36 what is the difference between package-name:symbol and package-name::symbol? 20:33:54 External/internal symbol 20:34:12 Single colon is an external symbol 20:34:13 osa1: you may use the : syntax if a symbol has been made external via EXPORT. 20:35:08 thanks 20:35:35 so there is no way to hide some definitions of a package, right? 20:36:00 osa1: "hide" in what sense? 20:36:38 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:21 -!- ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:38 benny [~benny@i577A105D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:21 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@129-97-120-56.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 20:40:51 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0787.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:23 "hide" in "unshared love for C++" sense, probably (no, CL has no "private") 20:42:23 akovalenko: #define private public :0 20:42:41 H4ns: #defining keywords is not valid C++ :) 20:42:47 It's a, it's behind this curtain 20:42:51 please don't peak 20:42:58 NOW YOU'VE SPOILED EVERYTHING 20:43:55 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:13 I like how CL lets you hang yourself by using unexported symbols. There are many scenarios where it is the only viable short-term solution. 20:44:19 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:24 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:45:40 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-218-243.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:25 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:48:14 so if I understand correctly, CLHS mandates that (cos ) will return a single-float if the return value cannot be specified as an integer, and this is not configurable? 20:48:32 *Phoodus* is in the process of shifting everything over to double-float 20:48:53 Phoodus: Coerce the integer to a double-float 20:49:13 right, meaning hunting down every use. This is not configurable? 20:49:36 Phoodus: those are the rules of contagion. 20:49:48 ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 20:49:52 You might find an implementation where single-float is the same as double-float. 20:49:52 yes, so I feared 20:50:06 Phoodus: You shouldn't have to hunt down every use, just where the integer gets introduced. 20:50:17 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:50:22 I don't want to convert all integers to double-floats, only singles 20:50:45 but in the case of passing values to irrational functions like cos, I'd need to check that integers don't hit it 20:51:13 hmm, bignums could break spectacularly there, too 20:51:40 since things like cos only care about the pi-sized lowest portion 20:52:58 As far as I know, all libms do the range reduction part naively anyway (manifests as a test failure in SBCL). 20:53:20 The problem is present pretty much everywhere. 20:56:13 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:56:20 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-31-102.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:57:48 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:03 ASau [~user@93-80-123-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:01:09 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:01:40 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:06:13 doesthiswork [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:22 francogrex [~user@109.130.147.89] has joined #lisp 21:07:22 how can I import all names in a package? 21:07:38 I want to use them without package-name: prefix 21:07:58 that's called using the package 21:08:08 interactively, (use-package :package-name) 21:08:10 osa1: There is no terse way to do that. There is a terse way to inherit external symbols from a package. 21:08:14 That won't include the internal symbols 21:08:22 how was it again to have 1.e3 print out as 1000 in repl evaluations? 21:08:23 in a defpackage, (:use :package-name) 21:09:44 I'm trying to make a function that I give several lists, and it gives me back all possible lists that have one element from each list I gave it. 21:10:16 Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has joined #lisp 21:10:21 but I'm having a surprising amount of trouble 21:10:22 by default e(X) get printed instead of the whole, do I have to use format of some "printer" option 21:12:40 doesthiswork: Paste your work to paste.lisp.org 21:13:27 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:13:27 doesthiswork: If you're trying to do what I think you are. First, get it to work for 2 lists, then write a second function that works for many. 21:13:58 First, get it to work for 0 and 1 list, actually. 21:15:25 so here it what I have that doesn't work 21:15:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126635 21:15:36 I will now try it for two lists 21:16:21 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:31 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-396790.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:36 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:20:05 huh, (cos ) fails on sbcl with an "expected-type: DOUBLE-FLOAT" error 21:22:28 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:29 -!- ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:58 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c351d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:22 hi 21:26:58 hmm, this might actually be a good candidate for my first use of restarts... 21:27:04 Hello prxq 21:28:19 hi ThomasH! 21:28:22 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:29:48 DataLinkDroid [~David@CPE-121-212-131-12.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:30:06 francogrex: my SBCL/slime setup prints 1.e3 as 1000.0 21:30:14 thanks ThomasH it works now 21:31:07 doesthiswork: Good deal. 21:31:40 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:31:47 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:25 ralith yes but this: (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (* 0.75 x)) (list 13841737 1387080 424330 8450049 920034)) annoys me with 1.0381303e7 ... 21:34:50 francogrex: 1e7 is quite different than 1e3 21:35:10 yes ok but how to?$ 21:35:20 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814462.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:02 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890505.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:37:57 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-227-26.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:41 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-229-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:46 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:40:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@CPE-121-212-131-12.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:44:15 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.147.89] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:46:31 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:25 -!- mega1 [~user@2E6BB436.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:49:53 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:50:22 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:50:39 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-114.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:18 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-90-38.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:55:24 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:56:46 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.27] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:39 -!- humasect [~humasect@OSHWON95-1176260417.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:00:01 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:20 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 22:01:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-108.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:40 ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 22:14:18 marsell [~marsell@120.18.135.5] has joined #lisp 22:17:21 naiv [~naiv@AAnnecy-651-1-62-87.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:20:29 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c351d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:22:26 sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-124.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 22:23:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Offline] 22:24:02 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-169.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 22:26:37 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:38 how can I string-trim only end of the string? I'm trying to trim spaces at the end of a string 22:27:08 string-right-trim, maybe 22:27:29 ThomasH: wow, thanks 22:29:13 oconnore [~eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:26 Is possibly there a "batteries included" CL implementation of something like a Trie data-structure but for bit-vectors instead of strings? 22:31:46 ISF_ec09 [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 22:33:28 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: reboot] 22:34:21 -!- ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:48 are #- and #+'s at the beginning of some lines some kind of platform specific interpreter commands? 22:35:00 Features 22:35:28 osa1: the conditionalize code per some value in *features* 22:36:10 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-92-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:36:11 Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:39:26 osa1: #+ and #- operate at read time, off the read time value of *features*. They're also used to comment out (or 'feature out') s-expressions, instead of lines of code... (frob #+nil(x (y)) (blah)). Keep in mind that this example does not work as well if you use a New Implementation of Lisp. 22:40:28 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:56 sykopomp: that's The NIL. It actually exists. 22:41:13 pkhuong: I know :D 22:41:20 #+() works though. 22:41:25 I don't remember if it's an implementation of ANSI CL, though, but whatever. 22:41:33 er #+(or) rather 22:42:11 What is a "New Implementation of Lisp" ? 22:42:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIL_%28programming_language%29 22:42:47 sykopomp: successor to maclisp. Cute foil to T. 22:43:15 I always use #++ 22:43:27 does that not work on some implementations? 22:43:35 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:43 Guthur: any runtime in which someone pushed :+ on *features*. 22:44:08 nil has the virtue of being semi standard, and (or) of actually working. 22:44:57 there's also obnoxious ones like #+xxx #+nahhhh #+maybelateridono #+nahh 22:45:12 oh oh, and #+shhh 22:46:02 well, if you think SBCL has long compile times, try and play with FFTW. I think it doesn't like my asking for 11 threads. 22:46:16 #+dragonshield 22:46:45 #+FIXME 22:51:57 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:56 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:55:31 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db578b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:55:40 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-198.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:09 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-124.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:38 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:10 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db578b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:47 seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:05 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-1-99.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 23:01:13 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-1-99.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:19 -!- felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:06:09 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:17 DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.54.227] has joined #lisp 23:07:13 -!- dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:13 -!- onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:50 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.54.227] has quit [Client Quit] 23:11:11 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:12:24 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:21:31 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:33 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:57 -!- Guest81674 [user@nat/google/x-ofzwormtgtuufxjn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:16 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:23 brown [user@nat/google/x-uoozmmtdpprzwbxj] has joined #lisp 23:24:26 -!- brown is now known as reb 23:24:53 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@bg266-1-88-183-246-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:03 SBCL question: Is the value specified with --dynamic-space-size a hard limit on the heap size? 23:25:10 yes 23:28:06 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-169.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 23:29:22 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.93.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-63-252.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:47 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-63-252.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:52 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-63-252.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:53 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 23:38:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:27 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.212.252] has joined #lisp 23:42:40 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-71-129-63-252.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:44:56 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-012.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:45:41 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:50 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:09 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db578b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 23:51:20 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp