00:02:38 H4ns: do the mcna coding standards mandate tabs in sources? 00:08:37 dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has joined #lisp 00:10:52 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.116.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:26 ikki [~ikki@189.247.116.252] has joined #lisp 00:19:37 -!- kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:19:38 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:26:18 -!- ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:27:39 ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:09 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:32:06 kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:19 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5175.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:24 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA06D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:38 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:52 ddp [~ddp@anon-154-9.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:57 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA06D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:37:40 saschakb` [~saschakb@p4FEA0FE7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:37:54 -!- pocket [~pocket_@p4155-ipbf811hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ] 00:39:08 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA06D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:15 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-96-177.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:40:53 -!- ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:42:32 -!- brendn [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:08 ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:27 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-23-174.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:47:17 -!- saschakb` [~saschakb@p4FEA0FE7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:50 -!- davazp`` [~user@89.100.226.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:51 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-21-69.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:59 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:56:29 brendn [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has joined #lisp 00:57:21 overminder [~overminde@wf106-221.ust.hk] has joined #lisp 00:59:24 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 01:02:11 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 01:05:03 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:06:31 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 01:07:22 -!- Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:08:23 Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:17 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129082097.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:18 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 01:15:44 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-23-174.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:16:42 *akovalenko* would like to know if CFFI team has some release schedule (like "one minor version per year") 01:17:19 akovalenko: we don't 01:17:27 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:22 fe[nl]ix: I'd like to see sbcl/win(32+64) fixes from cffi git in the quicklispable CFFI, and I hate to open silly bugs like "please make a release 'cause I want it so much" 01:18:27 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:15 is there something that *prevents* cffi git from becoming a new release? maybe I can help? 01:19:40 wait until Christmas, maybe Santa will bring you a gift 01:20:38 liamh is working on something interesting, too 01:21:04 akovalenko: that was serious :) 01:21:07 oh, if i could ask santa for something, it would be for an informative, detailed restart when a foreign library fails to load 01:21:29 hopefully during the winter vacation we'll have time for a release 01:21:31 so some outer system could e.g. auto-install the library and invoke a restart 01:22:19 "something interesting" sounds a bit scary when I want a new release *sooner* :) anyway, if next cffi release will happen before next QL update, it's fine, thanks 01:25:06 *Xach* meant "detailed *condition*" 01:25:32 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:58 Xach: i'm just home from a party, but "a condition" and "a restart or two" are definitely possible for sbcl at least 01:27:26 details beyond "whatever dlopen gives in errno" and pathname are harder to come by 01:27:35 pathname would be a good start 01:27:52 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:30:11 Xach: list of pathnames, probably (every pathname tried, not just the last one when CFFI becomes sure there's no such library) 01:30:15 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/905840 01:31:42 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has joined #lisp 01:35:16 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:38:11 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:57 davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has joined #lisp 01:45:07 sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.240] has joined #lisp 01:51:44 OKan` [~user@212.253.56.128] has joined #lisp 01:52:05 hello i try to set up slime environment on my computer 01:52:40 but my current user directory on my windows 7 has same non english character 01:53:31 thats why . slime is created under the user directory 01:53:40 -!- ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:48 does anyone has anny suggestion 01:54:38 ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:42 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:56:44 My suggestion would be to just switch to GNU/Linux, but that isn't very helpful, so I will abstain 01:56:52 OKan`: what is the problem? 01:57:16 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:42 i cant install linux because of the direver problem and the computer actually netbook uses by my wife 01:59:54 so let me coppy the problem 02:00:05 Put it on paste.lisp.org if possible 02:00:11 ok 02:00:22 teggi [~teggi@123.21.164.107] has joined #lisp 02:00:55 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:06 -!- Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Neban] 02:02:12 OKan`: what implementation of CL are you using? 02:02:42 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126559 02:03:03 My implimentation is CCL 02:03:30 the current problem is my Surname in it.. 02:04:25 That paste doesn't show much of a a problem. Are you able to use Slime now? 02:04:43 That looks like a fairly ok startup. 02:05:07 i cant use slime 02:05:22 OKan`: why? what happens when you try? 02:06:17 i know how to configre slime and ccl on emacs well .. but my username on this computer is Okan Akyüz 02:06:29 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 02:06:56 ü is non english character thats why i get this error and i dont know how to change this deffould directory 02:06:59 What error? 02:07:01 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:09 Could you please paste the error, too? 02:07:41 there is no error i cant jupm in repl or infoernal-lisp doesnot response 02:07:55 Can't jupm in repl? 02:07:59 What does that mean? 02:08:13 How did you add slime to your .emacs? 02:08:14 i cant see the REPL prompt 02:08:21 The repl prompt is right there: "?" 02:08:36 Did you add the slime-repl or slime-fancy contribs in your .emacs? 02:08:58 My HOME directory is C:\lispemacs 02:09:42 and configration is 02:09:47 (setq inferior-lisp-program "~/ccl/wx86cl -K utf-8") 02:09:47 (add-to-list 'load-path "~/.emacs.d/slime/") ; your SLIME directory 02:09:48 (require 'slime) 02:09:50 (slime-setup) 02:10:12 OKan`: ok, try using (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) instead. 02:11:39 Xach: works fine :) 02:11:51 Hooray 02:13:28 fantazo_ [~fantazo@91-115-175-135.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 02:14:08 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 02:15:13 Xach: are you the writer of quicklisp? 02:16:30 I am 02:16:54 I'm sorry if it gets confused about your home directory on Windows. That is a little tough for me to get right. 02:17:08 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-174-166.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:40 i am one year user quicklisp it is amazing tool for me.. 02:18:25 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:18:27 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-92.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:18:39 Glad to hear it 02:20:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 02:21:36 Im out.. I have to configure my environment on this computer.. And its to late.. Abaout half past 4 .. Thans for your help.. bye 02:21:45 -!- OKan` [~user@212.253.56.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:52 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 02:22:53 i wonder if there couldn't be a crowdsourced scheme for some of these configuration issues. with CFFI for instance, you need to install libraries from your package manager. if you've figured out what you needed to install you could push your solution to a centralized place. then later on someone else encountering the same error could check if someone else has solved it already. 02:27:40 -!- brendn [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:29:31 onembk [~onembk@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:08 chenbing [~user@115.192.192.247] has joined #lisp 02:35:33 nick Chen Bing 02:36:00 -!- chenbing is now known as ChenBing 02:36:47 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483CBB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:16 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:38:07 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CFC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:12 brendn [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has joined #lisp 02:49:20 _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.105.43] has joined #lisp 02:50:30 sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.240] has joined #lisp 02:50:32 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-92.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:44 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.171] has joined #lisp 02:54:44 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.171] has quit [Changing host] 02:54:44 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:55:00 Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.20.62] has joined #lisp 02:55:49 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:58:32 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:45 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 03:07:14 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-92.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:08:27 Modius` [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:34 Anyone on who maintains the site archive.siftsoft.com ? It carries the SBCL/win32 for installers.. . . 03:09:40 I can't seem to get to it 03:09:56 Modius`: I do 03:10:17 Modius`: hmm, couldn't reproduce any problem here... 03:11:10 akovalenko: I think my antivirus is blocking it (long story, I've had grave virus problems and installed 5 for the reinstall of this machine) 03:11:39 Modius`: do you download MSI or EXE? (It could become better with MSI) 03:11:43 akovalenko: Amazing effort, by the way - do you have any tips for someone with a Win64 PC trying to build sbcl/win32? 03:11:48 -!- elliottcable is now known as xxx 03:12:00 I'd love to be able to compile the tip for myself. 03:12:01 -!- xxx is now known as elliottcable 03:12:42 Modius`: get and install Mingw + MSYS, invoke sh make.sh, report any problems :) 03:13:00 akovalenko: Should I do that from Cygwin, or from regular dos prompt? 03:13:02 Modius`: if you want 64-bit SBCL, then you need 64-bit Mingw GCC 03:13:33 Modius`: doing it from MSYS prompt is the most natural thing 03:13:45 i.e., neither Cygwin nor MS-DOS 03:14:18 (iirc, it works from cygwin prompt as well, but I'm not sure) 03:15:16 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-92.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:41 anyway, "prompt" is not what's important here, the environment is. As long as you have sh.exe (and make and gcc) in your PATH, *any* prompt will do. 03:16:58 happyrabbit [dd02a41f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.221.2.164.31] has joined #lisp 03:19:12 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 03:20:39 clhs ~? 03:21:27 fe[nl]ix: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgf.htm 03:21:38 I would think pop of a place which is the slot-value accessed by its accessor would mutate the list. 03:22:04 mon_key: it would mutate the place. 03:22:32 I'm doing something wrong then... 03:22:58 Yes, it sounds like your expectations are wrong. 03:23:02 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.87] has joined #lisp 03:23:20 I'm just trying to understand why. I will paste an example. 03:23:24 mon_key: ask yourself how you would mutate non-empty list into an empty one. Understanding that it's impossible helps to adjust your expectations. 03:27:20 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-151-92.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:28:17 -!- happyrabbit [dd02a41f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.221.2.164.31] has left #lisp 03:28:21 akovalenko: How do I tell it to build 64-bit? 03:29:17 Modius`: sh ./make.sh --arch=x86-64 03:29:32 Xach: akovalenko: Sorry about that. It does exactly what i expect. I'm maybe too cross-eyed staring at this blork for too long (-: 03:29:45 and gcc.exe should be 64-bit (see mingw64 project on sourceforge) 03:30:29 -!- ASau` [~user@89-178-0-42.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:02 ASau` [~user@89-178-106-228.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:36:04 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:36:06 sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.240] has joined #lisp 03:37:09 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.20.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:37:33 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.62] has joined #lisp 03:38:56 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:13 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 03:41:16 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:46 Xach: are you subscribed to CFFI's mailing list ? 03:43:08 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f735024.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:44:04 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f73792f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:33 akovalenko: Was building the 32-bit (default it seems) and it grenades after a while on "make-target-1.sh: line 43: ./tools-for-build/grovel-headers: Bad file number" 03:48:55 Modius`: if you run tools-for-build/grovel-headers > output/stuff-groveled-from-headers.lisp by hand (in MSYS shell), what happens? 03:49:36 also, if you remove redirection 03:52:05 akovalenko: The output file ends up full of (defconstant s 03:52:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:35 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 03:54:05 Modius`: looks like something wrong with your shell (sh) 03:58:20 akovalenko: You interested in a simple code frag that crashes SBCL/64-bit? 03:59:53 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.64.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:14 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.91] has joined #lisp 04:00:29 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 04:03:44 -!- davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:11 Modius`: I am 04:08:34 I'm a real menace when it comes to breaking multithreaded. I pasted in the one that also breaks CCL/Winxx 04:09:01 Modius`: especially if it's SBCL *alone* (note that CFFI from quicklisp (not from git) has known problems with sbcl/win64, up to possible memory corruption) 04:09:33 Oh yeah, I ran SBCL 32, from the latest .msi, from dos prompt 04:09:47 what's the URL of your paste? (pastebot seems to be on vacation) 04:10:03 I put it on the github project 04:10:14 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:38 spike2251 [~user@c-76-24-24-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:37 I uninstalled the 32 bit and installed the 64 bit. The 64 bit isn't leaking either; but it's not dying. 04:21:49 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 04:25:48 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:26 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:27:19 akovalenko: I was on here in '05 whinging for a decent Windows SBCL (decent meaning multithreading) - seems you may have nailed it! Congratulations 04:30:36 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:35:25 Modius`: actually, Dmitry Kalyanov's work on it was essential (I was waiting since '07 for the same thing, and there was already a runnable multithreaded SBCL when I dared to step in with some code) 04:36:21 . . . .shoulders of giants. . . 04:39:01 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.116.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:47:47 -!- Noctifer [~Noctifer@82.113.119.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:48:13 -!- kingofspain [~king@108-215-232-154.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:49:28 sacho [~sacho@90.154.201.240] has joined #lisp 04:51:17 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 04:51:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:47 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.55.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:23 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:53:01 cl1 [~cl1@adsl-99-75-115-2.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:42 Does SBCL/Windows now do threads+sockets well enough to run a webserver (hunchentoot)? 04:57:30 Modius`: yes 04:58:10 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-67-189-241-178.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:59:23 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:07:06 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:12:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:12:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:14:07 i noticed in the topic that lisp is #1 05:14:21 is it better or just as good as haskell? 05:15:02 cl1: that tagline is a bit of a joke if you know CL reader macros. 05:15:19 Or a pun or something 05:15:35 oic 05:16:50 i don't know lisp at all. I've been looking for a functional programming language to learn. I picked haskell becuase it seemed popular, however i read this article and hopped over here to check things out (http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html ) 05:17:30 -!- pers [~user@99-5-216-95.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:17:34 Languages vary in power; but I think that the line as it goes up forks, CL is best-of-breed dynamic (making powerful macros possible), haskell is near best of breed static. 05:17:49 I.e. it's high enough that unlike Java etc. the type system actually buys you things. 05:18:04 A CL god and a Haskell god will write very different programs 05:18:49 i'm a fan of static, so I guess I picked correctly then :) 05:19:00 Unless dynamic is inherently more powerful 05:19:18 I wouldn't say. Both have their strengths 05:19:19 however code writing code is something I have done more than once in the past 05:19:38 i would have to agree with p_l|backup 05:24:57 thanks for the info 05:25:27 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.169.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25:32 after i get through this haskell tutorial i'm going to read one that has me write a scheme interpreter in haskell, so i'll get a little exposure to lisp pretty soon 05:26:35 3 05:28:45 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:28:45 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:30:49 The advantages to the paradigm, if any, is at the extreme end of writing lisp programs the lisp way. 05:31:08 I would assume so 05:31:15 you gotta be good to use the best features 05:31:19 It's almost impossible to avoid doing haskell in haskell though :) 05:32:15 so lisp allows you to write crappy code, and haskell makes it more difficult to do so? is that what you are saying? 05:32:30 No; but haskell forces you to be exposed to the things that set it apart. 05:32:48 ah, i see what you mean 05:32:48 You can fake imperative style programming in haskell; but you have to be pretty good at haskell to do it. 05:35:00 *ski_* . o O ( ) 05:35:02 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 05:35:47 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 05:39:09 heh, I remember looking back at some very early code when I was learning lisp; big let blocks of variables with lots of setq mutating them 05:41:50 (.. alternatively ) 05:43:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:43:25 wow, hello POKE53280,0 05:46:17 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:47:08 Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:38 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:49:16 -!- onembk 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[~kvirc@128.72.198.106] has left #lisp 06:45:43 astern [~kvirc@128.72.198.106] has joined #lisp 06:48:54 http://world.std.com/~mhuben/plofker.html 06:49:00 Oops, wrong channel 07:01:36 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.131] has joined #lisp 07:03:27 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:07 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-230.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-129.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:26:06 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:36:54 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.169.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:37:35 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:37:35 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:37:59 Nice job on SBCL/Win64, indeed, it is serving up hunchentoot pages. . . . 07:38:50 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:57 sylecn [~sylecn@49.79.88.46] has joined #lisp 07:39:08 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 07:41:50 -!- astern [~kvirc@128.72.198.106] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:41:54 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 07:49:09 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:53 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 07:51:30 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-23-174.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:51:47 -!- markski1beck [~Mark@iammark.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:54:15 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:20 markski1beck [~Mark@iammark.us] has joined #lisp 07:56:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.87] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 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timeout: 244 seconds] 10:03:43 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-150-137.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:04:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:06:30 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 10:10:17 [6502] [5e24fbab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.251.171] has joined #lisp 10:13:39 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:06 *[6502]* hates fw development 10:22:15 fw = framework ? 10:22:24 <[6502]> firmware 10:23:09 <[6502]> actually i hate complex build tools, and fw is the festival of complex build tools 10:23:27 <[6502]> they also hate me (they never work on my machines) 10:23:55 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770DCD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:08 firmware with lisp or C ? 10:25:12 -!- phadthai_ is now known as phadthai 10:26:05 anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-215-214.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:26:20 <[6502]> kilon: C ... i bought a bifferboard (http://www.bifferos.co.uk ) but it's a lot less fun that I'd have expected 10:26:42 alexzin [~Alexey@ppp85-141-142-12.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:27:03 <[6502]> kilon: basically all I got is either trying to do anything (and the card won't boot any more) or restore factory firmware (and the card does basically nothing) 10:27:24 <[6502]> of course the problem is me 10:27:30 i love lose lose situation, they are... funny 10:27:31 C on a 6502? :) 10:28:09 <[6502]> Phoodus: hehehe... nah. It's an x86-compatible processor (rdc). More or less a 486 without floating point 10:28:31 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:28:34 well, that's no fun then 10:28:39 used to own 486 DX 60 mhz , back in my dos day, it was fun 10:29:20 if i am not mistake SX is younger 10:29:27 *mistaken 10:29:35 SX = without floating point 10:29:47 not sure if they came out at the same time, differentiated due to yield 10:30:27 <[6502]> dos was fun indeed... but those boards run linux and things are an awful lot more complex (they do a lot more, of course... like usb or network support) 10:30:29 they did not come at the same time no, but they coexisted together for sometime 10:31:06 yeah 32 mb for ram is way above my 486 10:31:08 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:43 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-215-214.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:46 i think it was 1994 when i bought it, maybe abit earlier 10:31:54 urandom__ [~user@p548A445F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:12 my first x86 was a 386DX/16MHz with 1MB+256KB of extended memory 10:32:23 anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-215-214.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:32:36 I have no idea why they made a machine with such a tiny amount of extended ram 10:32:48 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 10:33:47 16mhz is kinda low too, well not as low as my oldest computer , amstrad cpc 6128 with 6mhz cpu , if you could call it cpu 10:33:48 [6502]: is there a reason you didn't just wait for a raspberry pi? 10:34:03 yes, that's a CPU 10:34:22 <[6502]> Phoodus: not really (except not knowing it was going to be around) 10:34:30 I drooled over AMIGA 500 at the time 10:34:37 <[6502]> Phoodus: raspberry is so cool that it may be a scam :-D 10:34:45 the love of my life till this day 10:34:47 and you sound kind of young. i'm sure there are old codgers in here where the oldest computer they worked with filled a room and had kilobytes of RAM ;) 10:35:18 Phoodus: me ? 10:35:20 yeah, I finally bought an A3000 some years back 10:35:24 kilon: yep :) 10:35:52 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082923C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:05 <[6502]> Phoodus: I'll probably buy that too... so I'll waste my free time just trying to do things with it (it won't boot) and restoring it to factory firmware (it won't do anything except some colorful demos) 10:36:06 well I am 32 years old, I was 9 at the time 10:36:08 [6502]: they're supposedly shipping actual hardware 10:36:15 at least pre-release to devs 10:36:16 i dont know if that qualifies as old :D 10:36:25 *ski_* . o O ( C compiler on a 6502 ) 10:36:50 ski_: yeah, cc65 also contains the assembler ca65, which is one of the best for the platform 10:37:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:09 Phoodus : yeah, but that's a cross-compiler, iirc 10:37:12 yep 10:37:25 oh, that's a different one? 10:37:28 yes 10:37:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:37:40 this is Philip Zembrod 10:37:46 assembly is loads of fun if you keep it simple 10:37:48 's C compiler, runs on the c64 10:37:50 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AEAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:37:58 (written in forth) 10:38:05 huh 10:38:16 well, crossdev > on-machine retro dev anyway ;) 10:39:13 timestamps on those files are 1992-95 10:39:19 probably never finished 10:41:08 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-80-15.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:43:38 -!- Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:39 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-214.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:47:19 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:53 -!- BountyX [~andrew@adsl-76-241-85-191.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:51:46 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined 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peer] 12:12:41 tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.131.188] has joined #lisp 12:13:02 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 12:22:56 fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:20 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:44 calliostro [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-72-134.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:31:18 -!- bubo is now known as haplotype 12:42:02 chenbing [~user@115.192.192.247] has joined #lisp 12:44:19 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 12:46:45 seems everyone is sharing holiday now 12:47:02 Holidays are for hacking 12:48:14 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:48:24 add^_ [~add^_^@h134n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:28 hi Xach:-) I heard Garbage Collection is some difficult for some lisp implementions include SBCL ,is it true? http://john.freml.in/sbcl-optimise-gc. the article is publisheded in 2009, I test a (time (reverse (make-list 10000000))) due to the old testcase doesn't produce GC. a slight improvement in gc-time proprotionally. 12:48:28 12:49:51 rjj [~rjj@cpe-76-90-79-73.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:50:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:52:21 chenbing: garbage collection is always difficult. maybe you want to ask a specific question? 12:55:46 now I can't ask a specific question. I just read "In Lisp implementions with bad garbage colletors, programs that cons a lot tend to run slowly" in Pual Gramham's ACL2 ,page 239. so it is just a general questin 12:57:11 that's usually the case 12:57:14 it is true that consing costs time. modern garbage collectors are pretty fast, though. 12:57:17 That is like saying "People with bad legs run slowly" 12:59:29 Its "until recently" is 1996, ofcourse 13:00:26 chenbing: good garbage collectors are not optimized for benchmarks such as (time (reverse (make-list 10000000))), but for real applications. 13:00:31 running on real data flows. 13:02:15 absolutely pjb 13:03:15 i can optimize this with just a single letter 13:06:05 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.160.43] has joined #lisp 13:06:47 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:17 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 13:14:36 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@207.7.149.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:10 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 13:24:01 -!- incandenza [u726@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xmnekiudytufottw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:19 -!- whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uayishckbcbroahl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:23 epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-1997.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:25:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:00 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 13:26:08 -!- evenson [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:01 evenson [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 13:28:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:41 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 13:29:05 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 13:29:07 Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:37:23 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:37:28 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:38:57 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:39:05 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:40:20 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 13:42:23 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:45:11 -!- EyesIsAsleep is now known as EysIsPerson 13:45:29 -!- EysIsPerson is now known as EyesIsServer 13:46:50 lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-22-57.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:48:19 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:15 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:20 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:54:32 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 13:55:42 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:48 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 13:56:54 gffa [~gffa@5249FBAA.cm-4-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 13:56:59 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has quit [Quit: am0c] 13:57:20 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has joined #lisp 13:57:35 -!- gffa [~gffa@5249FBAA.cm-4-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Changing host] 13:57:35 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:57:55 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.122.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:03 ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:00:56 -!- epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-1997.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:51 mcspiff [~user@142.68.77.111] has joined #lisp 14:03:01 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.160.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:03:35 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:02 is there any way easy/supported way to hook into slime-connect? To setup an ssh tunnel for example 14:04:18 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.198] has joined #lisp 14:04:36 whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wuksgkfcwhhbvqtj] has joined #lisp 14:04:47 YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 14:06:43 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:45 just write slime-my-connec 14:08:45 t 14:09:53 -!- tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.131.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:11:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:11:47 tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.202.117.143] has joined #lisp 14:13:13 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:13:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:13:38 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:34 incandenza [u726@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-shxakbusxcexjffh] has joined #lisp 14:15:27 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:20:46 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5bcd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:47 stassats: much easier, thanks 14:21:14 -!- tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.202.117.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:22:15 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814DB9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:07 tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.213.56.91] has joined #lisp 14:26:21 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:26:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:27:16 how  14:28:24 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-221-171.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:31:20 how to represent a constant string ? (defun aword () "abcd") seems not a constant structure. 14:31:42 "string" is a constant string 14:31:43 chenbing: what's wrong with "foo" 14:31:45 ? 14:31:59 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:32:29 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:32:55 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-204-210-148-165.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: SeanTAllen] 14:35:19 chenbing` [~user@115.192.192.247] has joined #lisp 14:36:19 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:37:03 -!- chenbing [~user@115.192.192.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:21 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.105.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:37:46 Hi, I'm reading the iterate manual. Is Iterate prefered to Loop ? 14:37:58 daimrod: by some. 14:38:33 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:35 -!- chenbing` is now known as chenbing 14:38:56 frx [~frx@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 14:40:20 daimrod: It's a matter of taste. I have no problem with LOOP myself, and see no reason to use iterate. Other people think differently. 14:40:37 ok, I suppose that main drawback to iterate is that it's not included in the standard, right ? 14:41:05 daimrod: well, that's not much of a drawback given that iterate is fully common lisp compliant, so it works on all CL's 14:41:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A445F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:04 the main drawback is that not everyone knows it and not everyone uses it 14:42:50 so you end up with having to use both LOOP and iterate 14:43:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:44:16 -!- lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-22-57.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 14:44:30 lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-22-57.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:44:59 ok thanks. 14:45:17 iterate gets no love in here? :). I like it how you can use collect at any level. for example (iter (for x in list) (cond ((.. (collect x)))) 14:45:19 so I'll finish the iterate manual and see which one I prefer. 14:46:05 frx: it's good and all, but that's not enough to convince me 14:52:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:52:30 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-221-171.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:50 Sometimes I write local functions to collect or do some other things at any level. 14:53:28 *mcspiff* is wondering why (setf puri:uri-scheme) doesn't produce valid uri's... seems like the entire point... 14:53:32 Would an iterate form work for that, without an explicit iteration? (eg. I'd collect things in a recursive procedure, or in an alternative, etc. 14:54:13 Actually, just asking that on interate is more work than writing the labels form I want... 14:54:45 collect, maximize etc work only inside iter form 14:55:03 frx: So I was right not to investigate iterate :-) 14:55:24 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has left #lisp 14:56:00 not sure how you expected it to work outside of iter. what form would return collected data 14:56:39 (collecting (bag1 bag2 ...) (collet x bag1) ... (collect y bag2) ... (values bag1 bag2)) 14:58:10 -!- haplotype [~bubo@178-191-155-139.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 14:58:56 you can't do something similar AFAIK. would be nice if you could 15:00:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:00:54 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:01 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.77.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:01:09 frx: sure you can. It's trivial. 15:01:54 (iter (repeat 1) (collect x into bag1) (collect y into bag2) (return (list bag1 bag2)) 15:02:21 (finally (return even 15:02:22 Good. 15:03:10 actually it doesn't matter, as we are iterating once. 15:03:17 silenius [~silenius@i59F752D8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:03:21 Yep. 15:06:56 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.62] has joined #lisp 15:07:19 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:53 Kron [~Kron@98.143.102.40] has joined #lisp 15:13:19 -!- Kron is now known as Guest77705 15:15:04 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15:16 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:14 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:17 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 15:24:06 evenson` [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 15:24:37 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:29:25 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:31:22 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 15:38:38 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:13 compmstr [~compmstr@cpe-74-68-138-100.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:46 -!- tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.213.56.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:42:08 -!- chenbing [~user@115.192.192.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:38 tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.133.236] has joined #lisp 15:44:45 francogrex [~user@109.130.144.205] has joined #lisp 15:44:52 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.144.205] has left #lisp 15:45:18 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-257-1-150-137.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:46:16 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:04 -!- tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.133.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:52:01 pnq [~nick@ACA27327.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:29 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.169.114] has joined #lisp 15:53:47 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5bcd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 15:54:01 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:56:24 -!- evenson` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:31 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 16:01:54 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 16:06:34 epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-1997.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:08:10 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 16:10:53 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5bcd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:13:15 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:15:00 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:06 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 16:21:16 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:22:04 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5bcd6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:23:01 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:23:11 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:24 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:48 calliost` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-69-221.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:25:20 -!- calliostro [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-72-134.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:25:50 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.122.70] has joined #lisp 16:27:40 pjb: would you consider updating the system descriptions of your many systems? 16:28:56 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:29:34 Xach: definitely. 16:29:45 pjb: did you see the issue in my descriptions.txt? 16:30:00 I didn't. Where is it? 16:30:02 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/UNOFFICIAL/descriptions.txt 16:30:15 search to com.informatimago 16:31:34 What's the deadline? 16:31:38 -!- epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-1997.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:32:10 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:29 Anyone know where I can get in touch with anyone that's involved (or has lots of experience with) CLSQL? 16:32:32 lemoinem [~swoog@158-85-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:54 ... gflags bindings?? what for? o_O 16:33:15 pjb: no deadline. it's been unhelpful for 7 years, what's a few more days? 16:33:21 Xach: very nice list with descriptions there. That information should be available though QL:SYSTEM-LIST and apropos as well? 16:33:32 loke: the mailing list for clsql is active and responsive 16:33:35 loke: yes, something like that 16:33:46 Xach: already posted there last week. No answer so far :-( 16:34:46 epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-1997.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:35:04 then you might be fucked. 16:35:12 Xach: apparently :-( 16:36:43 What was the topic? 16:37:23 Xach: speaking of CLSQL, how come QL doesn't allow me to load clsql-oracle, even though it's actually included? 16:37:46 Xach: The topic is that I can't seem to be able to to store anything Unicode in an oracle database with CLSQL-oracle 16:38:45 I'm not an OCI expert, but I believe they're using the wrong call to initialise the library. There is an "NLS" variation to the init call that one apparently should use if there is a desire to use unicode 16:39:09 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:40:53 ikki [~ikki@189.247.116.252] has joined #lisp 16:41:33 So I'm wondering what were the biggest events 2011 for Lisp for someone who has only sparsely followed along? 16:41:50 nikodemus' crowd funding success was pretty cool, what else? 16:42:54 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 16:43:02 loke: ah ok 16:43:15 timack [~timack@hlfx57-1-31.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 16:43:28 loke: could be that few if any people use oracle 16:43:39 Xach: yeah, exactly 16:43:55 tcr: ECLM ? 16:44:44 -!- Modius` [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:12 Well I'm not talking of an actual event like that. More like what's new and cool. 16:45:13 daimrod: +1 for me 16:45:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:46:06 Xach: I'm getting a bit frustrated actually, as I hadn't tested this part before (I just naively expected it to work). I only have a handful of options, one of them being trying the dwim oracle bindings, another one is to try to fix clsql myself (which is hard, given that my OCI experience can be summed up in around 1 hours of browsing oracle's documentation) 16:47:58 tcr: oh, then shelisp and manifest looks very promising to me. 16:49:25 -!- epsil [~vegard@ti0145a380-1997.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:54:15 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-188210.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:55:07 sacho [~sacho@95-42-125-255.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:55:47 hi people 16:57:24 onembk [~onembk@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:03 -!- Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Neban] 16:58:18 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA27327.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:03:09 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #lisp 17:06:47 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:05 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 17:07:17 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx57-1-31.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:32 teggi [~teggi@113.172.55.75] has joined #lisp 17:11:53 loke: if you need oracle stuff, then look into this: http://src.knowledgetools.de/tomas/porting/ 17:12:19 stock hu.dwim.rdbms is not used in produsction, but their fork is 17:12:41 some of their work is in HEAD, but it's on my TODO to merge all their changes 17:12:56 *attila_lendvai* is mostly afk 17:13:17 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@123.21.164.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:47 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:20:41 Good evening. I started learning Lisp and have the problem, that loaded .lisp files work in "native" sbcl in a terminal, but not when I use them in Emacs/Slime/SBCL. This is a short paste what happens. The file is loaded via the .sbclrc. https://gist.github.com/1493943 17:20:58 saschakb: what's your sb-impl::*default-external-format*? What's your ~/.sbclrc character encoding? 17:21:26 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 17:21:44 saschakb: and what's your SLIME version? 17:21:58 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:49 saschakb: and what's printed if you type (print #\ü) in SLIME repl? (and in non-slime REPL?) 17:23:57 In Terminal and Emacs, it's both utf-8. 17:24:15 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:25:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:08 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has joined #lisp 17:26:20 The print leads to an unrecognized character name. 17:26:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:27:06 ah, so emacs thinks it's unibyte encoding.. 17:27:13 saschakb: C-h v slime-net-coding-system 17:27:37 slime-net-coding-system utf-8 leads to package corruption. 17:27:52 it's utf-8-unix 17:27:55 agumonkey [agumonkey@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:05 "package corruption"? 17:30:16 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:30:33 saschakb: I think I know what you need to do. 17:31:00 I got the whole time the message "End of file during parsing (:return (:ok "fünfte liste)") 3 17:32:00 Xach: Any help is welcome. 17:32:43 saschakb: Are you using Mac OS X? 17:32:49 No. Linux. 17:33:04 Ok, sorry. I do not know what you need to do. 17:33:43 well, then I'll continue. What's your slime version, again? (or where did you get your slime/swank?) 17:34:01 I got my slime/swank via Quicklisp 17:35:18 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 17:37:20 saschakb: let's try this: (1) exit & restart your emacs, (2) in emacs, set slime-net-coding-system to 'utf-8-unix, (3) start slime 17:38:11 saschakb: btw, do you use M-x slime, or do you slime-connect to existing server instance? 17:39:41 M-x slime is, what I use, and I reactivated utf-8-unix in slime-net-coding-system 17:40:13 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 17:41:08 SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:09 and now, after you restarted emacs and set slime-net-coding-system, WHAT HAPPENS in your slime? "End of file during parsing...", or some other thing? 17:41:37 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 17:41:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:44 that happens, when I try using my functions, yes. 17:41:56 "that" == "End of file"? 17:42:24 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:05 No, the message "End of file during parsing in package: (:return (:ok "fünfte LISTE)") 3 17:43:22 is anyone here using the quicklispable slime? 17:44:23 *Xach* is 17:45:43 i'd recommend saschakb to check out what external format is used on SWANK side, but I'm unsure if it's done similarly for my swank (CVS head) 17:46:36 jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:46:38 akovalenko, how can I check the external format from SWANK. 17:46:47 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:07 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 17:49:37 saschakb: there was a revolution is that area between your slime and mine, so looking it up is hard for me. Xach is your hope 17:51:55 saschakb: also, let's check (ql:where-is-system "swank") ;; should point deep inside your quicklisp home. 17:53:07 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:12 sometimes, people get ancient slimes preinstalled by a system-wide package manager, and it's troublesome 17:58:54 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:01:59 -!- kwmiebach_ [kwmiebach@31-222-138-133.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:17 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 18:03:21 Greetings lispers 18:03:24 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:37 akovalenko: Thanks for you're help. I installed a cvs-version of Slime, changed the path in my .emacs and now it works. 18:05:41 saschakb: congratulations! (btw, next time, please try giving as much info as possible from the very start. This time, I've almost got a feeling like I was torturing you...) 18:06:13 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:53 akovalenko: Sorry, I just started with Lisp/Emacs/Slime - and - I got trouble myself working with it. But as time goes by and I learn more Lisp, I guess my handling of those 3 pieces of software will improve. 18:07:50 akvalenko: I really still have sometimes trouble to get the information I want out of those nice software pieces ... the trouble of a learner at the very start. 18:08:36 Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:06 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 18:10:06 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 18:10:15 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-125-255.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:10:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:44 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 18:10:48 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:11:02 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:11:33 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:38 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.55.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:58 -!- pjb is now known as Guest37518 18:12:45 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:13:55 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-125-255.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:14:24 Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:42 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 18:15:21 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 18:15:22 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:23 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 18:15:37 Snaffu [~snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:20 X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1000:b::9eff] has joined #lisp 18:17:46 -!- Guest37518 is now known as pjb` 18:18:02 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 18:18:43 kwmiebach [kwmiebach@31-222-138-133.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:20:12 ddp_ [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 18:21:56 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-154-9.relakks.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:57 -!- ddp_ is now known as ddp 18:23:51 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:25:33 -!- onembk [~onembk@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:28:31 -!- lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-22-57.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:30:26 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:22 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:34:40 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:56 jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:39:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:41:42 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-252.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:28 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:45:14 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:45:23 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:45:36 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:46:01 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:30 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 18:47:54 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:10 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:48:52 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:13 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:52:25 Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:38 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F752D8.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:39 hi, am I banned here too? 18:52:45 apparently not, no worries 18:52:56 (I am banned on #httpd) 18:57:17 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:32 daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 18:59:34 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129066201.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 19:00:01 onembk [~onembk@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:13 -!- Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:04:20 Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:13 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:05:13 dardevelin [~dardeveli@5.114.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:10:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-116.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:22 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.59] has joined #lisp 19:13:08 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:58 YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 19:16:16 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:38 -!- alexzin [~Alexey@ppp85-141-142-12.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:16:39 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:54 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:20:54 davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:33 -!- onembk [~onembk@c-98-245-158-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:24:04 -!- dardevelin [~dardeveli@5.114.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #lisp 19:29:54 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 19:30:24 happy sunday folks 19:31:13 -!- McMAGIC-1Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:16 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:34:33 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #lisp 19:35:16 happy sunday to you 19:35:54 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:07 boy it feels so great not to have case sensitivity, no more camel case torture. Hooray! 19:38:20 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 19:44:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:45:14 hydo [~cmoore@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 kingless [~kingless@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:54 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:07 anonus [~anonymous@95-55-20-47.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:47:27 -!- anonus [~anonymous@95-55-20-47.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:28 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1602.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:48:14 anonus [~anonymous@95-55-20-47.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 19:48:29 benny [~benny@i577A1610.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:53 -!- anonus [~anonymous@95-55-20-47.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-116.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:50 ly- [~ly_@unaffiliated/ly-] has joined #lisp 19:50:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:58 hello, I'm new to Lisp and would like some help with this snippet: http://pastie.org/3037327 19:54:30 sbcl returns (1 3 5) where I expect him to return the list of all multiples of 3 and 5 up to 1000 19:55:44 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 19:55:48 Hello. 19:56:04 How I can read data piped to sbcl in lisp? 19:56:06 For example: 19:56:22 ly-: There is no need to print the result, evaluate the form from the REPL. 19:56:29 -!- kingless [~kingless@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:56:43 echo -e "foo bar\n\n\ncar zar" | sbcl --script script.lisp 19:56:50 otwieracz: echo foo | sbcl --eval '(print (read))' 19:57:27 Hmm. 19:57:34 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:49 -!- davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:57:58 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:01 ThomasH: but still, it doesn't display the list I expect 19:58:40 ly-: You need to review the definition of MOD 19:59:01 ly-: You're using it incorrectly for your purpose. 19:59:10 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 19:59:18 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:33 ly-: (mod n x) and (mod n y) 19:59:50 *ThomasH* takes the spoon away from akovalenko 20:00:00 there is no spoon 20:00:04 Heh 20:00:36 *ly-* hangs himself 20:00:36 akovalenko: 20:00:43 ? 20:00:51 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:58 Or, nevermind. 20:01:00 My fault. 20:01:00 :) 20:01:05 (: 20:01:07 akovalenko, ThomasH thanks, my bad, I was sure my syntax was wrong.. 20:01:07 :) 20:01:23 but it was my logic in the end :p 20:01:31 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:01:37 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 20:01:37 akovalenko: Oh, I have question! 20:01:46 well, I'm listening 20:02:17 ly-: Sure, those mistakes are common. 20:02:19 echo -e 'foo\nbar\ncar' | sbcl --eval '(print (read))' gaves me: 20:02:25 FOO 20:02:25 * 20:02:30 The variable BAR is unbound. 20:02:34 The variable CAR is unbound. 20:02:53 otwieracz: foo is read by (read), other things go into SBCL repl 20:03:10 otwieracz: there are many ways to fix it, like --quit for modern SBCL 20:03:38 But after quit I'm still reading only foo. 20:03:52 otwieracz: read reads *one* lisp object 20:04:08 otwieracz: if you want to read everything until EOF, do it in a loop 20:04:17 *otwieracz* forgets everything from lisp basics he knows :( 20:05:12 otwieracz: it's important to decide if you need objects, or lines, or characters.. 20:05:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 20:07:30 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:09:01 Modius` [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:16 -!- agumonkey [agumonkey@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:10:09 agumonkey [agumonkey@8.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:12 akovalenko : SBCL/windows threading, is there something about it that limits it to 2 cores? 20:11:07 Modius`: no. Of course, it won't use more cores than you have threads.. 20:11:13 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:22 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:16:35 Modius`: nor will it use more cores that you have non-blocking threads. 20:17:39 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 -!- Snaffu [~snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:20:58 Snaffu [~snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:52 akovalenko: SBCL/Win64 is quite stable under my denial-of-service type attacks on hunchentoot, etc. I am most impressed. What's keeping this out of the main line of SBCL? 20:23:08 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:23:10 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:23:26 davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has joined #lisp 20:23:43 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:51 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.55] has joined #lisp 20:26:10 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:39 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #lisp 20:27:07 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:14 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 20:27:29 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:20 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:40 Modius`: there's a lot of stuff in it; reviewing and merging it accurately takes time. 20:29:29 setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 20:30:25 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-229-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:40 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:34 Modius`: btw, was it your donation? 20:31:47 Modius` : Yes 20:31:53 thanks! 20:31:55 akovalenko: Yes 20:32:03 Did you get my private msg? 20:32:32 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-229-85.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:49 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:35:28 -!- wildnux_ [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:36:41 I'm not sure people have grokked how important it is to have a good Win32. Most people I interact with are on Win32 - coaxing them toward this kind of thing (lisp) is hard enough without them having the ability to do solid experimentation from within their own OS. Yeah, I have a lispworks subscription; but I can't really hand out people something *they* can use - well, (I think) until now. 20:37:57 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:17 Actually, CCL's on the brink of it also; but I think there's different levels of focus on win32 20:39:27 OKan` [~user@212.253.56.128] has joined #lisp 20:40:05 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 20:40:07 That thread crasher I put up for 32-bit SBCL/W32 takes down CCL/Winxx as well - it bugs me as my (server test) trips it. 20:40:08 -!- setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@119.201.52.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:25 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:44 Modius`: consider reporting the bug. 20:40:54 H4ns: Already did :) 20:40:58 Modius`: ok. 20:41:51 H4ns: actually, any CL that has global WITHOUT-GC (equivalent) can eventually crash in that Modius`'s test 20:42:17 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:19 oh. he's testing something stressful with gc off? why? 20:42:21 Was that what it was? 20:42:25 I didn't turn GC off 20:42:26 Modius`: why? 20:42:29 ah, ok. 20:42:50 Hello I cant configure ac-slime and auto-complete-mode on my .emacs file http://paste.lisp.org/display/126567 20:42:52 Modius`: btw, when you're testing, don't you run (ROOM) periodically? (ROOM) is one of the typical things with lengthy WITHOUT-GC section 20:43:17 can anybody have any idea 20:43:29 *does 20:43:37 akolalenko: When I ran that code in 32-bit (before uninstalling it and putting on the 64-bit) I just ran the fragment you see there, from sbcl.exe, no Slime or anything, and it grenades on its own. 20:45:21 Modius`: it's not easily reproducible, 'cause it depends on things like CPU speed and thread scheduling. However, getting a crash like this in real application is not as easy as you could expect.. 20:45:54 akovalenko: Actually, it is in my situation (first saw it in CCL) - Zip-encrypting a bunch of things in parallel. . . . 20:46:24 It was said that in CCL the reason this triggered it is the class system needed to modify then read back something that was allocated, very quickly. . . 20:46:59 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:47:33 Modius`: probably the best solution is rewriting the compressor so it doesn't cons "on the fly" at all. It's definitely possible, though maybe not easy.. 20:47:48 akovalenko: I'm reinstalling the 32-bit - you sure you're testing on the 32-bit? 20:48:29 akovalenko: This is the importance of having a solid underlying lisp system - you may use libraries that have a certain performance profile ; you don't want to have to worry about them. 20:48:40 Modius`: if I add a couple of ROOM invocations, the crash is easily reproduced here 20:49:06 that is, threads are running, and I run (ROOM) in REPL several times => crash 20:49:31 Should running "room" be enough to take it down though? GC is only suppressed for an instant. . . 20:49:53 *Neban* can also test on win32 (CCL though) if needed. 20:50:00 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50:38 Modius`: the problem is, that "instant" is long enough for your threads to cons a lot (well, not for non-verbose (ROOM NIL)) 20:52:01 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:21 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:38 Modius`: actually, I recommend a rewrite because I wouldn't count on *any* multithreaded CL not having the same problem. Just reusing instances and buffers and hashes instead of reallocating them could be enough 20:55:29 urandom__ [~user@p548A40B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-129.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:38 Can anybody help me about http://paste.lisp.org/display/126567 this is .emacs lines and doesnot run at slime startup 21:08:55 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:10:55 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-116.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:02 lakatosi [~lakatosi@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 21:12:26 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:13:11 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:13:26 I need to be able to do arbitrary-precision arithmetic 21:13:45 are there any good libraries for Lisp for such a task? 21:14:00 lakatosi: if you use rationals, you can get that as part of normal CL. 21:14:23 lakatosi: otherwise wu-decimal can let you have a semi-syntax of floats with underlying usage of rationals. 21:14:27 The thing is that at some point I need to be able to do some square rooting 21:14:40 *Xach* does not know what is available 21:14:41 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 21:14:54 And with big enough numbers I end up with an overflow 21:15:06 akovalenko: Interesting, although my original crasher didn't have memory allocating unbounded. . .. Either the code that originally caused the crash was inherently crashable code, or I was seeing 2 different problems (the CCL manifested itself as corruption) 21:15:27 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:16:04 Xach: I know that GCL should do the trick, as long as I don't try to print the float 21:16:38 It's just that GCL is old, and there's next to no support for it :\ 21:16:41 I sorry to disturb.. I had a question about ac-slime (cant run under .emacs). I posted the paste link before ... can anybody help me? 21:16:50 Modius`: it may be 2 different problems as well (did you test how CCL reacts on actual heap overflow? it's easy to test it and see if there's some sensible error reporting) 21:17:34 akovalenko: I may not be fully understanding what I (was) seeing on Win32 - I tried to repeat the problem on a VM for the win32 (don't want to mess up my Win64 installation) and can't get it to repeat in SBCL now at all. 21:17:55 When it crashed (SBCL) it did NOT grow process RAM; but I assume it was running out of Gen 0 ram? 21:18:33 lakatosi: I swear someone had an arbitrary precision floating point library, but I can't seem to find it. 21:18:43 Modius`: note that zero-filled arrays don't grow process RAM, but they *do* occupy heap space 21:19:21 akovalenko: Why is that? 21:19:33 akovalenko: (I am behind you in understanding of the issues here) 21:19:41 ThomasH: Think! :P 21:19:43 Modius`: I don't commit memory until it's absolutely necessary 21:20:01 johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-39-151-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:12 akovalenko: . . . and if that "necessary" comes when without-gc is in play. . . . boom. . . ? 21:20:18 no 21:20:32 lakatosi: I'm seeing 'bigfloats' in maxima. 21:21:07 Modius`: it means that you can't rely on OS-level process accounting of memory usage when you want to know used heap space 21:21:19 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:26 akovalenko: Fair enough; but usually you'd see memory grow *somewhat*, disk thrashing a bit, etc. 21:22:27 ThomasH: Hm... You think it's possible to use the bigfloats in maxima as some sort of libary? 21:22:32 Modius`: anyway, thanks for the test. It *can* be my bug, after all (and I'm reviewing my code now). Also, I have a couple of ideas for fighting the effect even if it's "objectively" necessary 21:23:03 Yeah, if possible a delay/stutter may be better than death 21:23:17 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 21:23:17 Although that may turn out to be deadlocky 21:23:29 lakatosi: I know there is a way to use Maxima from CL, but I've never done it and can't help with that. I found something else, just a minute. 21:23:57 ThomasH: Oh, great 21:24:28 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-67-248-14-24.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:25:22 hi, for web sites, do you somehow limit sbcl's heap size? like Xms/Xmx arguments in Java 21:28:05 Snaffu_ [~snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:18 akovalenko: Under DOS attack, I had SBCL crash with "GC invariant lost, file "thread.c", line 1382" - how to isolate? 21:28:24 SBCL/Win64 21:28:34 -!- Snaffu_ [~snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 21:30:07 lakatosi: Check out this -> http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fateman/lisp/mma4max/more/bf.lisp 21:30:34 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-187-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:30:35 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:31:03 lakatosi: Dr. Fateman is well known for mathematical work with lisp. This is part of some Mock MMA library that, I think, will evaluate Mathematica commands. 21:31:04 puchacz: For web sites? 21:31:10 Xach, yes 21:31:12 puchacz: I think you can use --dynamic-space-size for that. 21:31:24 Xach, ok, let me see 21:32:08 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-116.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:32:46 -!- Snaffu [~snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:59 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:35:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:36:44 lakatosi: Correction, MockMMA reads Maxima commands. 21:38:10 zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:38:16 lakatosi: Finally, there is this -> http://www.haible.de/bruno/MichaelStoll/reals.html 21:38:27 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:31 lakatosi: Doesn't quite do what you're looking for, but related and interesting. 21:40:10 ThomasH: Actually, this is very close to what I'm looking for :) 21:40:30 If I'm reading it correctly :) 21:40:48 -!- Modius` [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:59 Thanks for the help ThomasH 21:41:31 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:41:37 lakatosi: No problem, I'm always on the lookout for CL mathematics libraries. This was a good excuse to look. 21:42:18 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-410312.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 21:42:21 now that we have we have named-readtables for sanely dealing with custom readtables, does anyone have a nice listing of various cool readtable hacks? 21:42:24 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-188210.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:40 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:57 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 21:44:26 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-410312.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:07 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:48:06 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:48:52 -!- zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:17 zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:49:50 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:50:13 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:50:33 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 21:50:58 75 21:52:33 beslyrus: named-readtables is not done yet 21:52:53 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 21:53:27 Hey LiamH 21:53:54 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.131] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:54:07 Hi ThomasH. No idea what "75" means. I think it was supposed to be typed into another window. 21:54:20 LiamH: Yeah, I guessed that. 21:54:42 -!- zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55:05 zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:55:07 -!- zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has left #lisp 21:55:15 zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:55:40 ThomasH: Although compiling the file is unreasonably hard :\ 21:55:59 It keeps complaining that functions are undefined, but their definition is right there in the file 21:56:26 lakatosi: The bf.lisp file? 21:56:34 -!- frx [~frx@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 21:56:49 huangho [~vitor@187.112.48.211] has joined #lisp 21:57:10 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-215-214.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:58:06 lakatosi: Sorry, have to run. Good luck. 21:59:46 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.122.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:00:22 ThomasH: No, the real.lisp file 22:00:31 The last one you showed me 22:00:40 Ok, thanks again for the help 22:01:07 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:02:23 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-233-246.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:03:23 daniel__ [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:04:11 -!- zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:04:16 -!- daniel__ is now known as zmv 22:07:42 It sure is nice to see a package from 1989 working flawlessy in the present :) 22:09:18 -!- zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:52 even better when you get an even older one :D 22:10:14 zmv [~zmv@c953345a.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:11:05 It's kinda like discovering an old radio in the attic and finding out that it still receives the local stations :) 22:11:07 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:18 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-50-9.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:11:22 beslyrus: I've never come to it, but after named-readtables, I wanted to publish a small project that would map [foo], {bar} to (square-brackets "foo") and (curly-brackets "bar"), which would allow (with-foo-syntax () ) which would macrolet e.g. square-brackets appropriately 22:11:36 hello 22:11:48 I neet little bit help about 22:12:11 auto-complete and ac-slime configration on .emacs 22:12:17 need* 22:12:58 OKan`: there's a mailing list for slime, consider trying that one. 22:13:27 ok 22:13:53 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 22:16:01 -!- lakatosi [~lakatosi@c3.uaic.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:41 lakatosi [~lakatosi@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 22:18:12 -!- OKan` [~user@212.253.56.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:01 [6502] [5e24fbab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.251.171] has joined #lisp 22:19:44 -!- H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:01 Oooh, ECLM videos 22:20:22 cmoore [~cmoore@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:38 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:38 Why does it have to be 12 AM WHERE I live?! XP 22:21:05 <[6502]> where are you ? 11:21PM here 22:21:13 Romania 22:21:17 You? 22:21:21 <[6502]> italy 22:21:30 Nice :) 22:21:37 <[6502]> and I was at ECLM :-) 22:22:16 I was thinking of going, but I have school, and can't afford to travel :P 22:22:49 <[6502]> lakatosi: I wanted to go there to try to understand why so few are using lisp 22:22:55 I need a job :P But there's no demand for CL knowledge where I live 22:23:21 6502: I ask myself that question every time I go to sleep :)) 22:23:27 [6502]: seriously? 22:23:33 Keeps me up at night... 22:23:34 [6502]: I'd say that's clear. 22:23:38 <[6502]> lakatosi: there must be some dark side we don't understand 22:23:46 <[6502]> ehu: it is? 22:23:55 Yeah, it kinda is 22:23:56 [6502]: yea. it's old. So it can't be good. 22:24:07 It's not just that it's old 22:24:10 C is old too 22:24:16 Hell, FORTRAN is even older 22:24:19 <[6502]> ehu: C is quite old too... but still used a lot 22:24:43 It has more to do with Lisp's legacy. 22:24:43 you shouldn't be using C either. C++ is even getting old; we need a new revision to keep people interested. 22:25:09 *tcr* writes c++ these days :-) 22:25:11 <[6502]> ehu: hehehe... C++1X sucks bad. I'm not sure it will get any use 22:25:12 lakatosi: how many are using FORTRAN? 22:25:13 ehu: What are you talking about? C is awesome! 22:25:19 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:25:24 *zmv* coughs. 22:25:25 C++ is the one that should be baned 22:25:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:35 lakatosi: I agree, but I'm a lisp user :-) 22:25:41 ehu: To my surprise quite a lot :)) 22:25:49 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:26:12 Lisp's image was hurt pretty badly with the onset of the AI winter 22:26:12 <[6502]> C++ is ok... but a bit too complex; C++1X just got an hell more complex 22:26:27 well, there are enough lisp users to have 10 active implementations - open source- and 3 or 4 closed source 22:26:45 <[6502]> lakatosi: That would explain why stupid people are not using it... i wonder why smart guys don't use it either 22:27:06 we had a room full of very smart people at ECLM. 22:27:13 It was really a great experience. 22:27:27 6502: Because most of the smart people are just stupid enough to believe what the smarter stupid people are saying :P 22:27:38 <[6502]> ehu: I'm not saying that no smart guy uses it... but many smart guys don't, and I wonder why 22:27:38 ehu: at least we we're told we're smart. who would not like to hear that? 22:27:41 not only the talks, but very much the conversations between them. 22:27:59 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-39-151-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Nodding off now.] 22:28:08 H4ns: hehe. yea. 22:28:11 I'm planning on working my arse of this summer, so I can attend the next ECLM 22:28:12 Well... Uh, at least Clojure is getting some attention. 22:28:26 ejbs: Yeah, at least we have that going 22:28:52 [6502]: maybe smart guys try to use the right tool for the job and lisp isn't their hammer at the moment? 22:28:57 But many people feel that Clojure's idea of paralelism is not the way we should be going :\ 22:29:19 ejbs: Clojure is just another lisp dialect 22:29:38 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-187-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:29:42 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-229-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:01 I think most people are afraid of Lisp's performance 22:30:05 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-229-64.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:11 <[6502]> google uses Java (!) 22:30:11 ejbs: also, dialects have come and gone. others will rise. None of them were so strong that they completely replaced Common Lisp. 22:30:28 [6502]: (I don't think it has much to do with smartness anyhow, but:) Maybe the smart people are not the one who do decisions 22:30:46 [6502]: I think google uses all languages which make them productive. 22:30:58 Nah, they mostly use C++ and Java :P 22:30:59 <[6502]> and they've Peter Norvig that sure knows lisp quite a bit :-) 22:31:13 <[6502]> yet they don't even touch lisp with a ten foot pole 22:31:25 -!- ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:31:26 [6502]: they took over a Lisping company. 22:31:33 so, they're doing lisp now :-) 22:31:38 <[6502]> really? 22:31:41 ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:31:47 [6502]: yea. they acquired ITA. 22:31:53 Oops, seems like I lost my connection. Did I miss anything interesting? 22:32:23 They took over the guys that created the searching system for the airline companies 22:32:31 <[6502]> wow 22:32:39 <[6502]> and now are rewriting everything in java? 22:32:41 <[6502]> hehehe 22:32:47 :)) Nah, I hope not 22:32:52 [6502]: http://www.itasoftware.com/ 22:33:00 Apparently they are hiring right now 22:33:11 Or at least were last month 22:33:21 -!- lakatosi [~lakatosi@c3.uaic.ro] has left #lisp 22:33:32 lakatosi [~lakatosi@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 22:33:42 Did I miss antyhing? 22:33:47 <[6502]> lakatosi: a smart company is always hiring, or to say it better is always considering doing so 22:34:12 True 22:35:16 their site says they're hiring. hackers with people skills. 22:35:22 Too bad there are so few companies that hire Lisp people :P 22:35:32 lakatosi: make your own. 22:35:35 -!- rjj [~rjj@cpe-76-90-79-73.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:35:37 That's an oxymoron :P 22:35:54 why? 22:36:05 http://streamtech.nl/site/ 22:36:12 they do lots of lisp. 22:36:35 the people behind it wanted to do lisp, so they started their own. 22:36:45 I'm refering to "hackers with people skills" as being an oxymoron. Just an inocent joke 22:36:55 <[6502]> lakatosi: learn java. make money. go to ECLM to get in touch with companies that love lisp :-) 22:37:18 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:37:27 <[6502]> i remember someone looking for people to program using SBCL 22:37:29 I would start a company, but I just don't fancy working alone 22:37:32 <[6502]> but NOT lisp hackers 22:37:46 just write a lisp -> java compiler! 22:37:58 nialo: no need. 22:37:59 spike2251 [~user@c-76-24-24-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:01 nialo: abcl. 22:38:04 hehe 22:38:05 nialo: Already working on something similar for school work :P 22:38:06 *[6502]* is writing a lisp->javascript compiler :-) 22:38:10 well no, that's not the same thing 22:38:11 nialo: run your lisp on the JVM. 22:38:18 that won't let you pretend to be a java programmer 22:38:28 [6502]: Not to break your momentum but we do have Parenscript :) 22:38:46 duomo [~duomo@cpe-67-248-14-24.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:47 nialo: I deploy programs which claim to 'be based on jvm technology' 22:38:48 <[6502]> ejbs: it's something different 22:38:52 sure 22:38:56 or 'run on java' 22:38:59 I gotta go 22:39:05 nialo: that works. 22:39:05 Bye guys! 22:39:11 -!- lakatosi [~lakatosi@c3.uaic.ro] has left #lisp 22:39:13 [6502]: it is? Gosh, gotta go and see what that is then 22:39:13 it works! 22:39:19 it's just not the joke I was failing at :( 22:39:23 <[6502]> ejbs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFavBwPYuxU 22:39:34 nialo: the program uses a quite heavy library: abcl.jar. 22:39:40 (8mb) 22:39:49 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:39:49 that's all. 22:40:27 chicken scheme has a JavaScript compiler: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/spock 22:43:12 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-50-9.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:17 <[6502]> ddp: that looks similar, except that jslisp is more like CL than scheme (it's a lisp-3, with un-hygienic macros) 22:43:26 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-76-24-24-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:44:57 <[6502]> i was amazed by the speed of chrome jit compiler... speed was closer to SBCL than to clisp 22:45:50 chrome's based on strongtalk, isn't it? 22:46:37 <[6502]> argument check however slowed things down a lot (especially on 64-bit ubuntu chrome... not idea why) 22:46:49 <[6502]> so next step is removing run-time check and adding compile-time check for arguments 22:48:59 <[6502]> ddp: chrome uses v8 22:49:08 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h134n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:50:55 i think the v8 vm assembler *is* strongtalk's, but i'm not 100% sure... 22:51:06 it's been a while... 22:51:12 <[6502]> may be... i don't know the details 22:51:18 <[6502]> i'm just amazed by the speed :-) 22:51:35 <[6502]> so I decided to try to use JS as my "CPU" 22:51:38 i'm using chrome myself :-) 22:52:51 I'm actually using Opera, incredibly slow JS 22:53:12 *ejbs* just decided to pop in on the convo for some reason 22:54:56 <[6502]> ejbs: opera is quite ok too... actually writing the compiler I found a strange bug; basically a string "2" that looked like a string but that couldn't be converted to number correctly 22:57:53 <[6502]> ejbs: even IE9 is ok (!) 22:58:37 <[6502]> ejbs: I only found a few problems in the repl... it's based on a textarea, but features autoindenting and somehow works correctly only in a few browsers 23:01:21 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:01:27 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 23:01:31 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:01:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:02:09 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:03:57 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:04:34 what does ` expand to? 23:05:00 nothing per se, or an implementation-dependent thing 23:05:18 <[6502]> tensorpudding: in my implementation `x expands to (` x) 23:06:32 okay 23:06:47 drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:07:02 i figured that ` was just a short way of writing something else, like ' for quote 23:07:32 nope, not in Common Lisp; it's implementation-defined 23:07:33 johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-39-151-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:36 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129066201.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:39 <[6502]> tensorpudding: it is like that indeed... but allows for some part of the quoted object to be replaced 23:08:06 the #\` reader macro could expand to the appropriate list structure directly 23:08:30 tensorpudding: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/CLHS/Body/02_df.htm 23:08:50 <[6502]> tensorpudding: for example `(x y ,z) will expand to something that when evaluated will return a list containing the symbol x, the symbol y and the current value of z 23:09:02 i know what ` does 23:09:07 as in the results 23:09:30 tensorpudding: you are interested in 2.4.6.1 23:09:32 i'm comparing cl with other lisps i've seen 23:10:50 <[6502]> tensorpudding: in my implementation `x is just a short form for (` x) exactly like for quoting, and similarly ",x" expands to (, x) and ",@x" expands to (,@ x)... then those are regular macros 23:11:07 which implementation is that 23:11:28 <[6502]> tensorpudding: and `(x y ,z) finally becomes (list 'x 'y z) 23:12:17 http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/paulgraham/glsbq.lisp has steele's backquote 23:12:21 <[6502]> tensorpudding: mine... https://github.com/6502/JSLisp 23:12:47 <[6502]> tensorpudding: backquoting is implemented in lisp itself... (boot.lisp file) 23:13:02 that wouldn't be a common lisp though 23:13:59 <[6502]> tensorpudding: in common lisp backquoting is already available, and there is no need to implement it or to wonder how it is implemented 23:14:06 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-14-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:14:08 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:13 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:16 you don't understand my question 23:14:31 but the link that Bike posted made it clear 23:15:45 <[6502]> tensorpudding: the most common error is to think that `(1 2 3) is the same as (list 1 2 3) 23:17:03 <[6502]> tensorpudding: backquoting result is not guaranteed to be fresh 23:17:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:40 fresh? 23:17:43 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 23:18:41 http://l1sp.org/cl/glossary/fresh 23:18:54 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:19:13 -!- ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:19:16 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 23:19:18 <[6502]> tensorpudding: for example `(,x 2 3 4) could be expanded to (cons x '(2 3 4)) and that's quite different from (list x 2 3 4) 23:19:33 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 23:19:40 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:12 ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-106-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:05 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-171-26.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25:17 lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:26:55 bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:27:17 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:11 SeanTAllen_ [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzolfhtjjluqtuny] has joined #lisp 23:33:15 Snaffu [~snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:04 -!- SeanTAllen [~SeanTAlle@cpe-98-14-83-126.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: SeanTAllen] 23:35:08 -!- SeanTAllen_ [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lzolfhtjjluqtuny] has quit [Client Quit] 23:35:36 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gaggfenkmimcvwog] has joined #lisp 23:38:33 -!- ybit [~ybit@131.252.130.248] has quit [Changing host] 23:38:33 ybit [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #lisp 23:38:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:03 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 23:41:40 snearch [~snearch@e178191053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:43:33 -!- [6502] [5e24fbab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.251.171] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:48:34 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:24 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:50:13 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:50:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:56:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:56:34 -!- huangho [~vitor@187.112.48.211] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:58:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:45 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp