00:00:02 | is a multiple-escape character 00:00:03 oh 00:00:06 Can I use ~ 00:00:19 pitlimit: evaluate (intern "#") and see what is printed :) 00:00:35 :) 00:00:38 \# 00:00:46 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@94.197.127.153.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 00:00:51 (|LIST| |NIL| 1 2) ;;; <=== also instructive 00:00:56 if ~ will do yu can use it directly. since it has no meaning in lisp 00:01:01 ok 00:01:15 `((~ ,(first s) (,(third s))))) 00:02:04 jackson-, and kennyd thank you 00:02:10 that is MUCH more readable and works fine thank you 00:03:14 clhs 2.1.4 "~ is not used in Common Lisp, and reserved to implementors" 00:03:16 ooops 00:03:32 I'd take it as a recommendation to escape ~ in symbols 00:04:44 hm 00:05:53 for unpublished throwaway code it doesn't matter much (never seen an implementation that actually makes ~ a macro character) 00:06:40 ~ would be a problem inside a format string correct? 00:07:46 (format nil "~a" '|~|) => "~" ;; no problem here 00:08:00 completely unrelated. ~ in format accepts a string, we are talking about symbols 00:08:23 (format nil "~~") => "~" ;; if we want a literal ~ embedded into format string 00:09:56 or rather ~ in format is part of a string 00:10:26 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:11:20 I suppose you could make format bite you using ~ as a symbol if you tried: (format t (format nil "~A" '~)) 00:11:45 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-43-60.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:46 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-135-204-43.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:41 kevin2_ [~kevin@31.216.199.218] has joined #lisp 00:14:56 -!- Romy-AFK [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-229-92.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Romy-AFK] 00:14:56 -!- kevin2_ [~kevin@31.216.199.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:42 kevin2_ [~kevin@31.216.199.218] has joined #lisp 00:16:18 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-229-92.dyn.columbia.edu] 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[Changing host] 00:52:29 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:56:05 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 00:57:50 -!- sepok [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:23 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:23 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:59:23 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 01:05:01 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-183-164.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:45 Vivitron: but you wouldn't use format in that way regardless 01:09:27 -!- jackson- [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: quit] 01:10:48 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-251.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:11 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-235-251.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:20:17 pnq [~nick@AC816726.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.132.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:26:43 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B271.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:32:08 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 01:32:40 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@11.165.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:36:02 Is there an easy to get (APPLE) from (((((APPLE))))) 01:36:25 (caaaar' (((((APPLE)))))) 01:36:31 why do you have it in the first place? 01:36:39 No, my poitn is I want to remove all unnecessary nexts if tehre is only one element 01:36:43 nests 01:37:18 (alexandria:flatten '(((((APPLE)))))) 01:37:44 what is alexandria 01:37:45 just don't let your lists become like this 01:38:01 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:38:12 I cannot help user input stassats 01:38:45 why would a user put (((((APPLE)))))? 01:38:57 if he doesn't mean it. 01:41:25 stassats: looks like an apple in stereo 01:43:08 ok, i have done my job. the thing works. thank you for your help 01:43:15 good bye 01:43:20 Good bye. 01:43:30 l_r: you should still try to run the original with ecl! 01:44:00 why? 01:44:25 Because it would have been much quicker, and it would be better at maintainance time. 01:44:48 Kvaks [~kvaks@11.165.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 01:50:21 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Riley14.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:50:52 -!- devhost [~devhost@174.143.148.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:50:54 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 01:51:02 MikeSeth_ [~me@174-143-244-95.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:13 devhost_ [~devhost@174.143.148.179] has joined #lisp 01:51:17 -!- devhost_ is now known as devhost 01:52:05 ifnspifn_ 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Wetter so schön ist] 02:23:34 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 02:33:19 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 02:33:20 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:33:59 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A240A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:14 -!- syrinx__ is now known as syrinx_ 02:36:56 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:47 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:01 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43:03 pitlimit: no one seems to have answered, alexandria is a library which contains a set of handy, common, code-snippets users use. you can install it through quicklisp, i really like it. 02:43:07 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:43:46 Alexandria is a city in Egypt, where a great library once was 02:44:07 stassats: yup, but i doubt pitlimit was interested in that alexandria :) 02:44:19 pitlimit: check http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/ for more info 02:44:21 that's why alexandria is called alexandria, i presume 02:45:09 Actually, as a library Alexandria was so bad it had to be burnt down, and a new better library called Cesarum was built upon its ashes by Caesar. 02:45:15 stassats: i can imagine no other reason, but i haven't seen an explicit reference 02:45:31 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.121] has joined #lisp 02:45:36 marco baringer is still a lisp programmer? 02:45:48 once a lisp programmer, always a lisp programmer 02:45:55 Exactly. 02:45:57 stassats: but not always an active one 02:46:14 I guess alzheimer can always kick in. 02:47:43 stratoba` [~user@vpn241-158.vpn.utah.edu] has joined #lisp 02:47:48 pjb: i was thinking more of corporate kicking in 02:49:32 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:52:18 hm 02:52:20 thanks madalu 02:52:21 oops 02:52:23 madnificent, 02:52:30 but not thanks stassats heh heh 02:52:57 you don't appreciate a little history lesson? 02:53:05 ;) 02:53:26 stassats: he doesn't appreciate *you*, the history lesson was acceptable (i kid, i kid) 02:54:33 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:02:17 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:07:28 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:07:59 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:08:20 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 03:08:43 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:07 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:09:30 -!- kidfoo 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has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:56:47 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:56:52 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 04:57:16 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:57:25 kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 05:05:36 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:06:45 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:11:44 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:11:49 pers [~user@96-25-162-104.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:01 https://github.com/whalliburton/Lisp-Academy/commits/ 05:13:15 what are you trying to tell us? 05:14:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:17:07 -!- pers [~user@96-25-162-104.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:06:51 -!- zennit [4e91481e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.145.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:07:12 lisp is the most uber cool language ever. 06:11:51 phyllis [84aa4210@gateway/web/freenode/ip.132.170.66.16] has joined #lisp 06:14:35 fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:00 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-24-120.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:28:37 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:30:09 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 06:31:51 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-75-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:32:19 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 06:33:35 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:33:55 Did my last message ~1-2 mins ago come through? 06:34:26 no 06:34:37 ok, chromaticwt: Lisp is the most reflective mirror of a language ever, and you get to decide how cool the thing which lisp reflects will be. 06:34:38 unless your definition of minutes is different 06:41:40 Quadrescence: that is nice. 06:42:10 yeah i'm trying to say deep, meta things in hopes to get on one of those Great Lisp Quotes lists 06:44:26 zen 06:55:02 holycow [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:08 hi guys\ 06:57:02 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.78.180] has joined #lisp 06:57:03 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.78.180] has quit [Changing host] 06:57:03 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:57:21 i am doing a bit of animation programming with the pal package. i wanted to have a cyclic algorithm that incremented a property between two values. for example scale from 0 to 10 by 1, when it hits 10 then decrement by one down to 0 and back again. 06:57:54 how might an algorythm look to achieve this? i've tried a few things but i've only been able to get a linear increment in one direction 06:57:58 any tips? 06:58:29 (loop for i to 20 do (print (mod i 10))) 06:58:56 oh! 06:58:57 stassats, I think he wants 0 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 2 1 0 1 2... (except to 10( 06:58:58 )) 06:59:01 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 06:59:08 Quadrescence: correct 06:59:13 right, i misread 06:59:29 so, what's the problem? that seems trivial enoguh 07:00:29 i'm not a programmer, i'm just not able to visualize the mechanism by which it decrements back down by one. i'm not a programmer. 07:00:42 sorry about the dupe 07:00:44 then it's time to become one 07:01:00 (defparameter *x* (list 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 9 8 7 7 6 5 4 3 2 1)) (setf (rest (last *x*)) *x*) (defun bouncing-10 (n) (nth n *x*)) 07:01:39 i put two 7s in there by accident 07:01:48 it's no accident! 07:01:53 >:) 07:01:56 oh neat, let me play with that! 07:03:00 thank you for both examples. i think i can visualize how one can use stassats example as well to do something like this as well 07:04:21 you could also have (defparameter *x* (list ...)) (defun bouncing-10 (n) (nth (mod n (length *x*)) *x*))) 07:05:12 you should 07:05:15 otherwise it's O(n) 07:05:54 Ralith, since when did anyone care about time complexity 07:05:59 well, you're calling length on a list, so still O(n) 07:06:05 Quadrescence: good question! 07:06:12 what else is there to care in this world? 07:06:23 stassats, you~ 07:06:34 I'd just work out the math to obtain it straight 07:07:42 Ralith, the list is constant length though 07:07:44 so it's O(1) 07:07:55 orite, wrong n 07:08:07 still pretty ugly imo :P 07:08:21 so would some piecewise sawtooth-looking function 07:08:36 bogged down with IFs 07:08:42 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:08:43 oh no an entire conditional 07:08:46 we can't have that 07:08:56 i know i wrote an article about how i hate conditionals 07:09:01 maybe i'm not seeing something, but what's the problem here? 07:09:02 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:05 (defun do-something-strange (from to) (loop for i from from to to do (print i)) (loop for i from to downto from do (print i))) 07:09:06 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 07:09:49 stassats: I think he wants a function from N to N, not a list generator 07:10:19 stassats, i think it's because you're a devil for not using keywords for LOOP clauses 07:10:43 well ideally, but anything that works gets me on the road to more understanding so all good 07:11:19 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:12:26 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 07:13:02 ok, then i don't really understand what is needed 07:13:25 holycow, the very best way of going about it would be to get a high-degree Fourier approximation of the sawtooth curve and then put that approximation in a lisp function 07:14:48 morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.98.154] has joined #lisp 07:14:56 hi lisper 07:15:18 (loop for i to 20 do (print (- 10 (abs (- i 10))))) 07:15:52 (loop for i to 20 do (format t "~A " (- 10 (abs (- i 10))))) 07:16:00 oh right! 07:16:02 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 07:16:24 i was also thinking sin/cos might have a function that does similar if i remember math classes correctly 07:16:57 waveman: that is what i was thinking i would do with stassats example *nod* thanks for the sample! 07:16:58 holycow, haha, yes. I was being kind of facetious but you could use sine/cosine to do it 07:17:42 is that loop from ARC ? 07:17:43 =.=" 07:17:51 Quadrescence: haha sure sure, no biggie, my apologies for the noob polution. the fourier thing sounds like something i can look up though 07:18:12 waveman: doesn't really work for for i to 30 07:19:26 http://mathworld.wolfram.com/FourierSeriesTriangleWave.html 07:19:29 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-236-188.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 07:20:10 -!- phyllis [84aa4210@gateway/web/freenode/ip.132.170.66.16] has left #lisp 07:20:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:21:51 oh neat, never seen that site before 07:22:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.39.17] has joined #lisp 07:24:43 for 0<=n<20, f(n) = (cond ((<= 0 n 10) n) ((< 10 n 20) (- n (mod n 10)))) 07:24:55 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:25:08 (loop for i to 40 collect (abs (- (rem i 10) (if (evenp (truncate i 10)) 0 10)))) 07:25:20 then the "full" F(n) = f(n%20) 07:27:21 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:27:47 sacho [~sacho@87-126-39-203.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:28:34 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:28:47 without conditionals: (abs (- (rem i 10) (* 10 (logand 1 (truncate i 10))))) 07:29:10 ah, here it is: processing.org ... i would eventually like to do a bunch of the graphics examples they do on there 07:29:18 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:29:55 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.55] has joined #lisp 07:30:43 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-39-203.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:36:12 holycow, http://paste.lisp.org/display/126274 07:37:57 actually using the term "period" was wrong. it should be half-period 07:38:56 chenbing [~user@218.72.93.248] has joined #lisp 07:39:39 although ABS is most likely implemented with branching 07:41:55 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 07:42:43 Quadrescence: sweet! sorry was reading up. fancy! 07:47:38 holycow, what did you say you were working on? 07:47:39 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:20 just messing around with a package called pal. super simple graphics framework barely maintained. just learning the super basics, lispbuilder-sdl is a bit over my head right now. 07:50:58 holycow, link? 07:52:18 common-lisp.net/project/pal/ 07:52:27 www.common-lisp.net/project/pal/ 07:53:12 chenbing` [~user@122.234.216.201] has joined #lisp 07:54:08 it made it back into quicklisp, the author fixed the sbcl compatability issues 07:54:22 but he's not maintaining it ... still fun 07:55:05 -!- chenbing [~user@218.72.93.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:58:15 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:58:47 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:15 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:19 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 08:01:42 thanks for the help guys 08:01:43 nite 08:01:44 -!- holycow [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:01:57 sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-39-203.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:02:07 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@87-126-39-203.btc-net.bg] has quit [Client Quit] 08:02:56 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:03:24 teggi_ [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 08:03:27 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03:49 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:16 what's the problem with lispbuilder-sdl? i found it easy to do simple animations 08:04:18 -!- teggi_ is now known as teggi 08:04:29 -!- kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:04:33 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-39-203.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:06:20 kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 08:06:39 presumably holycow judged its interface to be less intuitive 08:09:09 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-191-18.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:10:04 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 08:13:59 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:18:47 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:19:00 oudeis [~oudeis@94.197.127.153.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:19:56 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade560d1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:37 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-49.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:26:59 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-1-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:59 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-1-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:26:59 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:30:11 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:30:11 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:32:58 I wish that people would stop trying to use 'intuitiveness' as a design metric. 08:34:11 everything should look like breasts 08:34:19 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 08:34:50 stassats, I think you're on to something... 08:36:44 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@212.106.51.222] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:38:05 dlowe [~dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 08:39:16 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:19 howto represent keysym such a * as keysym 0x26 with #/? 08:43:37 #\ 08:43:57 what's "keysym"? 08:44:26 xev display keycode and keysym in linux 08:44:36 keysym is a combination key 08:44:46 what's it got to do with lisp? 08:45:27 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade560d1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 08:46:02 a (setf word1 (make-string 10)) ;=> " 08:46:26 in my sbcl ,(aref word1 1) ;=>#\Nul 08:46:37 this confuse me 08:46:39 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:50 what are you expecting? 08:47:36 (aref word1 0) ;=>#\Nul confuse me more 08:48:10 your confusion confuses me 08:48:50 ^ and @ all display as #\Nul ,how is possible? 08:49:03 CL-USER> (defvar word1 (make-string 10 :initial-element #\x)) 08:49:03 WORD1 08:49:03 CL-USER> (aref word1 5) 08:49:03 #\x 08:49:54 ^@ is a control character for #\Nul 08:51:18 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:51:38 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caret_notation 08:52:50 chenbing: Do you know CLX? 08:53:15 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.98.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:53:18 Zhivago: I don't yet 08:53:31 chenbing: Then forget about keysyms and keycodes. 08:53:47 chenbing: You're just dealing with characters from the terminal, not X11 keys. 08:56:11 When you say (make-string 10) it makes a string with some default character. In your case, it used #\Nul. 08:57:50 -!- kloeri_ is now known as kloeri 08:58:17 chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:26 -!- kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:59:31 kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 09:00:53 slash_ [~unknown@p54B87633.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:15 YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 09:16:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:21:06 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:26:54 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 09:26:54 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:33 -!- chenbing` [~user@122.234.216.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:47 -!- jewel 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#lisp 10:05:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-58-40.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:06:50 Vent [~vent@208.116.38.102] has joined #lisp 10:07:19 zeekill [~AcidBurn@a83-245-228-162.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:07:21 Hello 10:07:25 I am your god 10:07:33 no you're not 10:07:47 Yes I am 10:08:10 BEHOLD 10:08:12 v convincing argument u provide 10:08:23 xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has joined #lisp 10:08:23 -!- xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has left #lisp 10:08:23 xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has joined #lisp 10:08:23 -!- xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has left #lisp 10:08:23 xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has joined #lisp 10:08:24 -!- xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has left #lisp 10:08:25 My ego is big enough 10:08:25 xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has joined #lisp 10:08:25 -!- xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has left #lisp 10:08:27 xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has joined #lisp 10:08:27 For me to be god 10:08:27 -!- xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has left #lisp 10:08:29 xIAL [~xIAL@94.74.129.86] has joined #lisp 10:08:29 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10:08:40 -!- sFn [~sFn@119.146.220.41] has left #lisp 10:08:40 Nrf [~Nrf@122.194.5.191] has joined #lisp 10:08:40 please take your ego somewhere else 10:08:40 XzATO [~XzATO@213.207.40.3] has joined #lisp 10:08:40 -!- XzATO [~XzATO@213.207.40.3] has left #lisp 10:08:40 -!- Nrf [~Nrf@122.194.5.191] has left #lisp 10:08:40 YJeLeg [~YJeLeg@190.145.104.226] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 Dxghuc [~Dxghuc@62.196.56.135] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 -!- Dxghuc [~Dxghuc@62.196.56.135] has left #lisp 10:08:41 Dxghuc [~Dxghuc@62.196.56.135] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 -!- Dxghuc [~Dxghuc@62.196.56.135] has left #lisp 10:08:41 xFCLbw [~xFCLbw@v-183-181-2-202.ub-freebit.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 -!- xFCLbw [~xFCLbw@v-183-181-2-202.ub-freebit.net] has left #lisp 10:08:41 -!- YJeLeg [~YJeLeg@190.145.104.226] has left #lisp 10:08:41 wgwC [~wgwC@32nhqkpf.emirates.net.ae] has joined #lisp 10:08:41 -!- wgwC [~wgwC@32nhqkpf.emirates.net.ae] has left #lisp 10:08:41 wgwC [~wgwC@32nhqkpf.emirates.net.ae] has 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10:08:43 oh jesus 10:08:43 -!- YJeLeg [~YJeLeg@190.145.104.226] has left #lisp 10:08:43 WcxnRm [~WcxnRm@18-152-89-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 10:08:43 -!- WcxnRm [~WcxnRm@18-152-89-200.fibertel.com.ar] has left #lisp 10:08:43 wgwC [~wgwC@32nhqkpf.emirates.net.ae] has joined #lisp 10:08:43 -!- wgwC [~wgwC@32nhqkpf.emirates.net.ae] has left #lisp 10:08:43 -!- bhsPEr [~bhsPEr@80.191.239.113] has left #lisp 10:08:43 sFn [~sFn@119.146.220.41] has joined #lisp 10:08:43 cds [~cds@host32-180-static.82-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:08:43 Dxghuc [~Dxghuc@62.196.56.135] has joined #lisp 10:08:43 -!- Dxghuc [~Dxghuc@62.196.56.135] has left #lisp 10:08:43 -!- cds [~cds@host32-180-static.82-94-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 10:08:43 -!- sFn [~sFn@119.146.220.41] has left #lisp 10:08:44 WcxnRm [~WcxnRm@18-152-89-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 10:08:44 -!- WcxnRm [~WcxnRm@18-152-89-200.fibertel.com.ar] has left #lisp 10:08:44 Nrf [~Nrf@122.194.5.191] 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[~acDiz@v-183-181-2-202.ub-freebit.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:54 -!- Zhivago has set mode +i 10:10:54 -!- 45PAACZ6E [~QVfhhx@69.7.32.88] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- bTsj [~bTsj@190.210.139.25] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- acDiz [~acDiz@v-183-181-2-202.ub-freebit.net] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- ECRc [~ECRc@119.235.50.226] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- xVMh [~xVMh@195.28.31.92] has left #lisp 10:10:54 Jlal [~Jlal@187.95.64.66-customer.tecwave.com.br] has joined #lisp 10:10:54 VJI [~VJI@e0-0.wtt103.imsbiz.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:54 ECRc [~ECRc@119.235.50.226] has joined #lisp 10:10:54 -!- QrBoX [~QrBoX@2001:da8:201:1013:d685:64ff:feb7:dc36] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- NKR [~NKR@64.76.85.82] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- wMiV [~wMiV@113.106.102.91] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- kVdCl [~kVdCl@renaissance-diamond.egreta.gr] has left #lisp 10:10:54 kVdCl [~kVdCl@renaissance-diamond.egreta.gr] has joined #lisp 10:10:54 -!- hWj [~hWj@85.105.15.86] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- xqDXyF [~xqDXyF@119.235.50.158] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- Jlal [~Jlal@187.95.64.66-customer.tecwave.com.br] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- VJI [~VJI@e0-0.wtt103.imsbiz.com] has left #lisp 10:10:54 -!- xPLhLe [~xPLhLe@201.30.60.20] has left #lisp 10:10:55 -!- kVdCl [~kVdCl@renaissance-diamond.egreta.gr] has left #lisp 10:10:55 -!- ECRc [~ECRc@119.235.50.226] has left #lisp 10:10:56 -!- dSM [~dSM@201.30.60.20] has left #lisp 10:11:01 -!- pQNBQg [~pQNBQg@119.235.50.182] has left #lisp 10:11:06 that was special 10:11:07 -!- TnKI [~TnKI@94.74.129.86] has left #lisp 10:11:42 -!- Dxghuc [~Dxghuc@62.196.56.135] has left #lisp 10:11:43 -!- CwWT [~CwWT@201.18.135.3] has left #lisp 10:11:44 -!- NziS [~NziS@118.99.107.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:52 Presumably they wanted to restore the natural distribution of retardedness to #lisp. 10:12:10 gday mlord! 10:12:17 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:12:38 -!- mindCrime 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12:53:22 entrix [~entrix@89-178-124-130.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:55:26 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:56:48 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:00:42 is there a way to tell loop to collect into a sequence rather than a string, or should I just coerce the value afterwards? 13:03:42 df: loop can't do it directly. you could also use vector-push-extend. 13:04:21 rather than a string? 13:04:28 *Xach* would expect "list" there, not string 13:04:29 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:41 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:47 yep, I meant list 13:08:00 thanks 13:08:32 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A33E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:47 Xach: if there are multiple versions of a library in the dists, ql loads the oldest one, is it by design? 13:12:14 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 13:13:02 kanru: It is not possible to have multiple versions of a library in a single dist. Most people at this time have a single dist. If you have multiple dists, you can assign which one takes priority. 13:13:17 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:05 The intent is that by default, dists are preferred in chronological order of installation. 13:14:30 Reverse chronological, rather. 13:16:00 Noctifer [~Noctifer@89.204.155.160] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 kanru: do you have an example of what you mean? 13:17:15 I only uses (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") to update the dist, while it leaves multiple copies of hunchentoot in the software/ dir 13:17:22 hunchentoot-1.1.1/ hunchentoot-1.2.1/ hunchentoot-1.2.2/ 13:17:41 and ql always load hunchentoot-1.1.1 13:17:55 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:18:16 why is climacs always failing with prolog-syntax.lisp ? 13:19:21 _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.58.52] has joined #lisp 13:19:22 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.58.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:27 -!- alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Quit: alanpearce] 13:20:02 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 13:21:00 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has joined #lisp 13:21:55 Bronsa [~Bronco@host136-184-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:23:06 -!- Bronsa [~Bronco@host136-184-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 13:27:21 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 13:30:05 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:08 kanru: that seems quite odd to me. 13:32:18 kanru: what does (ql:where-is-system "hunchentoot") return for you? 13:32:38 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-27-98.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:33:29 Utkarsh [~quassel@li118-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:34 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:33 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:20 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:39:20 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 13:42:04 Xach: #P"/home/kanru/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/hunchentoot-1.1.1/" 16:03:39 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:39 16:03:39 -!- names: ccl-logbot rme Guest92610 jimmy1980 xcv petercoulton chromaticwt setmeaway gko Guthur xyxu ISF nonduality incandenza nitro_idiot am0c YuleAthas prip hijarian rudi chrnybo`` jewel naeg schoppenhauer SpitfireWP howeyc dlowe daedric eMBee froggey AntiSpamMeta paradela__ mindCrime kpal Guest2194 morphling Obfuscate luis zakwilson Jabberwockey clog Neronus hyko inklesspen jayne gensym rootzlevel fe[nl]ix finnrobi Xach foocraft albino jsnell wolgo dcrawford eno 16:03:39 -!- names: sbryant cods pkhuong adeht OliverUv koollman krl ``Erik Adrinael ruediger kanru _3b orangejuice austinh v0|d felideon _mathrick pinterface PuffTheMagic Shapeshifter ivan4th izz_ rotty_ aperturefever levi jbalint DrForr Koven mtd__ clop k9quaint tempire GeneralMaximus foom vhost- djinni` herbieB phryk Zhivago Shaftoe housel vsync SidH_ Odin- ecraven derrida cmatei kwmiebach rabite elliottcable hcfd__ ihyoyoung dmiles_a3k bhaskara sipo micro` 16:03:39 -!- names: markettaskilbeck abeaumont alvis xristos Mandus DGASAU srcerer Fade rgrinberg ch077179 Modius gaidal JuanDaugherty moah realitygrill Demosthenes bwright_ shachaf df_aldur Brendan_T RenJuan ThePawnBreak el-maxo angavrilov ramkrsna juniorroy ramusara mathrick pchrist urandom__ daniel___ gffa entrix Yuuhi tessier_ mgr pokes_ cow-orke1 rahul z0d ramus tjasko ve madnificent df dfox_ Yamazaki-kun Guest76006 __root__ antifuchs peddie tali713 antoszka galdor 16:03:39 -!- names: limetree naryl Gymnopediste jeekl gigamonkey sepi_ araujo Jasko3 peccu Jasko2 fmu phadthai MrBusiness vpit3833 johs _krappie_ gz pizzledizzle acieroid gkeith_lt billitch pok SHODAN j_king Guest40994 Axioplase_ Guest88073 cYmen em Dodek elliottj1hnson mornfall tvaalen Utkarsh CrazyThinker Noctifer EyesIsServer hakzsam chenbing mishoo__ attila_lendvai homie ykim3 katesmith samebchase joshe zeekill osa1 xan_ loke ivan-kanis deepfire slash_ insomniaSalt 16:03:39 -!- names: mrSpec sdemarre Kryztof Quadrescence kennyd nialo`` syrinx_ duomo Vivitron nu11ptr macrobat Nisstyre zenlunatic spacebat_ MikeSeth_ Kvaks s0ber ASau Oddity lnostdal_ tty234 ljos Salamander cnl ianmcorvidae buhman Posterdati parabolize ybit p8m BrianRice p_l peterhil` dRbiG cmbntr whoops nowhere_man anonus lnostdal ace4016 |3b| rtoym Bucciarati yahooooo bfein CallToPower wtetzner scode billstclair boyscared lonstein klutometis Amadiro C-Keen guther literal 16:03:39 -!- names: tomaw guaqua felipe mal sshirokov a7p gemelen daimrod jlaire cpt_nemo jrockway fridim Nshag qsun Borbus EarlGray^ arbscht nuba theBlackDragon cataska dsp_ egn Ralith_ otakutomo teggi mon_key alek_b quasisane ski_ cmm oGMo CrazyEddy stepnem CaZe setheus cs-colt redline6561_ yan_ frozencemetery Intensity freiksenet scharan erg PissedNumlock tychoish ineiros oudeis cyrillos kloeri bobbysmith0071 bege rsynnott tritchey Patzy kjellkt Tristam Guest8980 djanatyn 16:03:39 -!- names: Pepe_ Saeren g000001_ EmmanuelOga _nix001 darkjh kidfoo fractal_heart ArmyOfBruce ayrnieu lemoinem The_third_man devhost coyo akovalenko rotty jiacobucci fmeyer flip214 hugod sellout yroeht REPLeffect zbigniew Khisanth __main__ rpgsimmaster maxm----- aoh 16:08:33 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-140-186.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:09:46 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.217.95.236] has joined #lisp 16:09:50 -!- Guest92610 is now known as pjb 16:10:06 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.217.95.236] has left #lisp 16:10:17 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:34 angavrilov: afaik, no (at least not actively) 16:10:55 Well, he just went to the loo, so no, definitely not actively. 16:11:51 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-56-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:12:32 is there a version of or that returns all the values from whichever form succeeded? 16:12:51 OR does that. 16:13:03 pjb: primary value only for any form but last 16:13:53 (defmacro mvor (&rest forms) ......) ;; yeah, I'm lazy today 16:14:44 -!- darkjh [~user@AAmiens-652-1-63-68.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:07 It's just that I've got a small but important fix for it: https://github.com/dmitryvk/cl-gtk2/issues/8 16:15:27 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:15:49 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.23] has joined #lisp 16:16:43 and there's also some sb-ext:finalize which should have :dont-save t (not on the gtk* level, somewhere in gobject stuff, probably) 16:17:16 Xach: Have a look at https://github.com/Neronus/Lisp-Utils/blob/master/shelisp.lisp please. It now uses trivial-garbage, I have fixed some problems and introduced some tests 16:17:38 SLB [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:17:43 Somebody said yesterday, that shelisp never worked for them anyway. Have a look if you like and report any errors to me, please 16:17:53 Neronus: how about a system file? 16:18:36 Xach: Will come 16:18:36 angavrilov: someone at lisper.ru have mentioned his tree/fork of cl-gtk2 that contained some fixes (if that was not yourself, looking it up could be useful) 16:18:53 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:27 Xach: I will put it into a repository for itself 16:20:32 -!- paradela__ [~ricardo@bl14-208-4.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:36 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.58.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:21:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-158.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:21:09 My specific wish is somehow getting that tweak into quicklisp, so that my program runs without patching the downloaded code... 16:21:11 Yay 16:21:28 Of course, I suppose that as a temporary hack I could include that redefinition in the program itself... 16:22:44 I also have a (performance) tweak for the "elf" library. 16:24:03 Mhh... github doesn't display the current version 16:24:10 Well, I'll take care of that later 16:24:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126280 - well that's my quick hack at it 16:26:16 -!- entrix [~entrix@89-178-124-130.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:27:31 -!- SLB is now known as [SLB] 16:27:31 -!- [SLB] is now known as SLB 16:28:21 -!- SLB is now known as [SLB] 16:29:33 udzinari [90a0621f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.160.98.31] has joined #lisp 16:29:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:33:37 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-140-186.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:37:01 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:37:12 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 16:38:15 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.140.46] has joined #lisp 16:39:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-58-40.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:40:07 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:27 waltwhite [~waltwhite@78.250.164.134] has joined #lisp 16:40:27 entrix [~entrix@89-178-32-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:40:35 -!- CrazyThinker is now known as CrazyThinker|sle 16:40:48 -!- CrazyThinker|sle is now known as CrazyThinker 16:42:44 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:57 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43:26 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:18 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:44:48 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 16:44:51 waltwhite_ [~waltwhite@78.250.190.148] has joined #lisp 16:45:01 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:18 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:45:22 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:38 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@78.250.164.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:38 -!- waltwhite_ is now known as waltwhite 16:48:54 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-216.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:22 -!- kwmiebach [kwmiebach@31-222-138-133.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:36 kwmiebach [kwmiebach@31-222-138-133.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:51:09 hi 16:51:19 what is the (read) algorithm? 16:51:59 http://l1sp.org/cl/2.2 16:53:36 NovemberX [november@osiris.parodius.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:43 -!- NovemberX is now known as November 16:54:28 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 16:54:37 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:52 -!- kidfoo [~neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:56:56 kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 17:00:49 spike2251 [~user@c-76-24-24-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:25 hey, I want to try and test client/server code with usocket 17:01:32 is there a way to open two slime repls? 17:02:32 Yes. C-u M-x slime 17:02:34 ikki [~ikki@189.247.169.125] has joined #lisp 17:03:28 pjb: Thanks! 17:04:30 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:53 also, I am following this example on how to create a project: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html?thread=674335 and I don't exactly understand how I add new dependencies. Do I just modify the asd file and hope (ql:quickload "example") will get it? Or do I have to do something arcane? 17:06:35 s/hope/be sure/ 17:06:41 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:07:12 spike2251: quickload will download the dependencies on demand. 17:07:51 Xach: thanks! 17:08:04 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:08:58 passionke [~Administr@60.176.43.253] has joined #lisp 17:10:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:11:43 -!- entrix [~entrix@89-178-32-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:12:15 ah, pushing to the right repository helps 17:12:26 add^_ [~add^_^@h178n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:40 zmv [~zmv@189.120.173.189] has joined #lisp 17:12:42 I'm also looking at some concurrency libraries; I'm really looking for something that just makes it easy to for me to test my client/server code. Right now chanL and eager-future2 both look really cool; I'm wondering which one (or another) has more widespread use in real-world cl projects. 17:13:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:15:30 -!- passionke [~Administr@60.176.43.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:15 passionke [~Administr@60.176.43.253] has joined #lisp 17:20:30 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade561e5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:02 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has joined #lisp 17:24:58 entrix [~entrix@95-25-141-225.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:28:59 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:50 -!- Guest88073 is now known as dodecahedron 17:32:20 -!- dodecahedron is now known as Guest89408 17:33:10 chenbing` [~user@115.192.199.58] has joined #lisp 17:33:47 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:35:04 -!- chenbing [~user@115.192.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:50 vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:25 can someone help me with this weird problem I had trying to include eager-future2 in my common lisp program?: http://i.imgur.com/oKpKL.png 17:37:40 hagish [~hagish@mnch-5d86c28b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:50 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@78.250.190.148] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 17:37:51 -!- passionke [~Administr@60.176.43.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:05 -!- Guest89408 is now known as bechmoul 17:38:07 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:08 I don't know what button to hit to get a more detailed backtrace 17:38:33 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:39 hit v on "0: (STARAA::MAIN)" line 17:38:53 -!- vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:40:20 -!- bechmoul is now known as dode 17:40:24 -!- dode is now known as dodecahedron 17:40:41 -!- rudi [~textual@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:40:46 if this doesn't work, open "/home/Dropbox/src/common-lisp/staraa/staraa.lisp", search for "main" and fix how it's called 17:41:10 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:42:58 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:43:22 stassats: thank you, that's a very useful way to go to an error's source 17:44:23 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:35 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:10 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:45:19 rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 17:46:05 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:38 is there a good tutorial anywhere on eager future 2? 17:48:01 my google-fu seems to suck 17:48:14 is that a gam... oh. 17:48:36 spike2251: doubtful. you could ask the author for material or guidance. 17:49:04 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:06 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:13 on second thought, it would be nice if somebody wrote a game called "Eager Future 2" 17:50:36 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:51:57 well, um, which threading library would people recommend? Should I start off with just bordeaux threads until I get a good grip? Or is there a easy, well documented system on top of it which I should start with? 17:52:44 spike2251: When I want to use threads, it's usually for an application I don't care about sharing, and I just use the sbcl thread functions. 17:53:09 spike2251: bordeaux-threads seems like a decent place to start. 17:54:25 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:55:10 Xach: thank you for the recommendation 17:56:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-157.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:46 Xach: Please have a look at https://github.com/Neronus/Shelisp 17:58:59 -!- nialo`` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:59:14 looks interesting, although who needs shell when you got lisp 17:59:22 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:40 stassats: If you need mktemp for example 17:59:58 And don't want to write an ffi. Granted, you can always use other libraries :) 18:00:03 spike2251: it's more of a non-disrecommendation. i don't write programs with threads at all. i don't know the best or worst or whatever. 18:00:13 and it's GPL 18:00:25 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-76-24-24-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:00:45 stassats: I can't help that. The original code was licensed using GPL 18:01:03 *stassats* won't look at the code, lest i remember something from it 18:01:30 stassats: And for one kind of use, see for example https://github.com/Neronus/Lisp-Utils/blob/master/randBG.lisp 18:01:41 Well, there is pretty much nothing from the original code left, to be honest 18:02:18 I removed the nail-clipping-style for example. 18:02:27 i can look at .asd, though. and you shouldn't depend on lisp-unit for the whole thing, define shelisp-test or something and put it into a separate file 18:02:29 I can ask the author if he grants permission to relicense it :) 18:03:12 Yupp, it's on my todo-list. But not for tonight :) 18:03:20 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.140.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:04 -!- kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:34 run-program is usually enough for me to run external programs 18:06:51 kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 18:10:49 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-150-159-127.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:08 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.239.54] has joined #lisp 18:13:30 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-254-62.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:44 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 18:16:10 Neronus: s/:component (:file ...)/:component ((:file ..)) 18:16:47 *Xach* is deeply in love with commando, wonders about porting it 18:17:11 Xach: porting commando? that would make it black ops, right? 18:17:40 commando2: black-ops or streack 18:17:44 streaker* 18:23:06 Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE92F41.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:05 Pomo [~Pomo@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 18:26:45 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 18:31:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:33:12 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:36:26 nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:22 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 18:42:13 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE92F41.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:42:39 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-254-62.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:23 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-254-62.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:19 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@host109-150-73-67.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:47:21 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade561e5.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 18:48:29 -!- hijarian [~kvirc@178.206.115.191] has quit [] 18:48:55 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:31 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:50:37 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 18:51:17 hey Pomo :) 18:51:30 -!- Pomo [~Pomo@192.188.108.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:08 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:55:06 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 18:56:50 Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 18:56:51 -!- Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Client Quit] 18:57:16 nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p4FE31F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:48 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 19:00:14 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 19:03:47 -!- hagish [~hagish@mnch-5d86c28b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:21 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade562f2.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:55 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:13:14 daimrod: Acknowledged, thanks 19:13:25 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:16:04 hi 19:16:31 please I've got a problem with read algorithm: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_b.htm 19:16:48 It would be better if you toold us what your problem is! 19:16:49 at point 2 is stated that an invalid character will produce an error 19:17:19 timack [~timack@hlfx62-1-33.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 19:17:25 You may also have a look at an implementation: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader 19:17:27 but a space is an invalid char: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_adb.htm 19:17:37 Not if it's escaped. 19:17:47 'hello\ world --> |HELLO WORLD| 19:17:49 so: > (list 1 2 3) 19:17:55 would emit an error 19:18:07 The reader algorithm defines the reading of a single token. 19:18:18 (list 1 2 3) is read by the #\( reader macro. 19:18:27 each reader macro implements its own algorithm. 19:18:30 no 19:18:32 I mean 19:18:35 the leading spaces 19:18:42 would emit an error 19:19:27 See point 3 of 2.2. 19:19:39 ok 19:20:07 but point 2 of 2.2 talks about invalid charactes, now space is one of those 19:20:12 That's why I don't like algorithms written in English: then inherit the ambiguity of the English language. 19:20:19 Algorithms should be written in programming languages. 19:20:25 yes 19:20:29 -!- kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:20:55 this algorithm should be swap point 3 with 2 19:21:27 Check reader.lisp lines 570+ 19:22:22 Character syntaxes invalid and whitespace are exclusive. Whitespaces are not invalid. 19:22:43 Character traits and character syntaxes are different things. 19:24:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-254-62.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:24:31 Now, the syntax of a character may be different when it's escaped. #\space alone has whitespace syntax. But | | or \ have the constituent syntax. 19:25:02 I've got the constituent syntax table and space is invalid 19:25:19 Where do you have the syntax table? 19:25:27 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_adb.htm 19:25:38 this is the constituent traits 19:25:58 The syntax table is given in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_ad.htm and space is whitespace, not invalid. 19:26:11 Posterdati: Character traits and character syntaxes are different things. 19:29:06 ok 19:30:18 H4ns [~user@p57A9EF4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:37 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade562f2.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 19:32:34 Space having an invalid trait means that (hello world) contains two symbols, not a single one. with an escape, the space trait becomes constituent, so that (hello\ world) contains a single symbol. 19:33:42 But the syntax of space is whitespace, so for the algorithm in 2.2, the space in (hello world) doesn't make an error, but just separates the two symbols. 19:38:25 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:40:29 benny [~benny@i577A1823.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:00 puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:46:13 iwillig [~ivan@74.72.59.207] has joined #lisp 19:47:59 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:26 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:50:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:07 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:51:03 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 19:51:14 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:53:05 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:12 MoALTz 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[~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 21:04:58 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:06:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-58-40.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:07:08 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:08 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:10:54 hey, is there something like map in place in CL? or map that writes an output to a provided sequence? 21:11:06 map-into 21:11:21 mapcar maplist mapcan mapcon map and map-into. 21:11:22 thanks, stassats 21:11:23 it's both 21:11:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-58-40.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:13:04 (map-into sequence function sequence) and (map-into sequence function [another-sequence]) respectively 21:15:14 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:17:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:25 Also, you have a full access to each CAR within MAPL 21:17:50 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:17:53 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:10 Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE92F41.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:42 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:21:23 vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:56 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:12 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:32 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:34 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:48 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 21:26:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 21:26:48 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:29:06 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:30:38 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:51 pjb: I'm writing a repl in c/c++... 21:31:10 pjb: shall I provide a reader macro function too? 21:32:01 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 21:32:07 If you want to make it conformingly CL, yes. 21:32:17 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-163.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:33:07 compared to full CL:EVAL, read macro support is not that hard 21:33:09 pjb: is there an algorithm for this? 21:33:33 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp-reader 21:35:20 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:35:23 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-49-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:17 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:36:37 Posterdati: writing a REPL in C is silly. Just use libecl.so! 21:36:54 pjb: not for embedded 21:37:18 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:10 Posterdati: In what language are you writing the REPL? 21:39:45 pjb: I'm writing a repl in c/c++... 21:39:56 c/c++ 21:40:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:42 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 21:41:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:29 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.47] has joined #lisp 21:43:04 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 21:45:56 Posterdati: that is not a language. 21:46:05 What language are you actually using? 21:46:22 so, I'm coming from Clojure(and Scheme, I'm reading SICP and I'm at chapter 4 right now, solved almost all exercises in previous chapter) and wondering how experienced common lispers writing their code in terms of style like in "functional style" or "imperative style" or "object-oriented" etc. for example, how common lisp community reacts me if I write a common lisp code in a full functional way? or is it possible? 21:46:23 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:33 English? 21:46:38 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:46:48 c/c++ == 1 /* with a side effect */ 21:46:55 Xach: c++ 21:47:07 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 21:47:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 21:47:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:47:30 osa1: Common Lisp is a multi-paradygm programming language. You can write in any style you need. 21:47:42 osa1: it is possible. typical common lisp style is largely functional, but mixes in side-effects when convenient 21:47:49 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:51 osa1: If writing it in a full functional way led to awkward solutions in parts of the program that are not well-suited to a functional solution, an experienced CL user would probably think it is not good style. 21:48:16 or that the programmer was in a hurry. 21:48:26 purely functional CL isn't really rare, but a bit atypical 21:49:49 yeah when a language provides lots of ways to do something it confuses new programmers(at least in my case) 21:50:12 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:17 Yes, having more than one tool leads to the need to learn to use each when appropriate. 21:50:30 That's a problem I don't mind having. 21:51:19 actually I first started to learn common lisp few months ago, but couldn't write anything useful. then started clojure(with java experience coming from my courses) and almost a week later I started to produce something useful(to me) and I think this is mostly because it provides you one obvious way to solve something 21:51:46 common lisp is huge, with lots of functions doing almost the same thing 21:51:54 also, CLOS 21:52:36 this is wrong 21:52:44 what lots of functions do almost the same thing? 21:52:46 still, I want to understand common lisp because of great books and libraries written with common lisp 21:52:49 You can do useful things with CL without learning it all. The more you learn, the more you can do. 21:53:25 zmv: stassats: you're thinking like this because you're already experienced 21:53:42 experienced? 21:54:01 what the hell are you talking about, I barely know any lisp at all! 21:54:05 arguably, CL provides more than is required to write programs, having only SKI combinators would be enough, but silly 21:54:09 -!- nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p4FE31F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:54:28 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:54:56 the only way I can understand this "more impoverished languages are easier to write code in" meme where it makes sense, is "more impoverished languages are harder to write code that the oversensitive might find shameful". There's less chance of someone saying "woah, why didn't you write that with ROTATEF" , which is a bad thing instead of a good thing somehow. 21:55:32 that is, it's somehow bad for someone to tell you how to improve your code. 21:55:32 the only duplicating things are SETQ and SETF, i never use SETQ 21:56:16 is Esperanto good? 21:56:18 osa1: about what's accepted in the community: to my experience, it's just about anything that's clear and maintainable. as common lisp is rather flexible, it's hard to dictate a specific style. 21:56:23 or rather, better than English? 21:56:50 osa1: a few things that helped me out with the size were learning the organizing of the hyperspec (in each chapter there is a "dictionary" section that lists the applicable functions), getting an environment that lists argument lists and has autocomplete (e.g. slime), and becoming familiar with (apropos "stuff" :cl) 21:57:03 stassats: technically speaking? I'd rather go with lojban :P 21:57:09 there's clqr 21:57:11 yeah I'm already using SLIME and it's great 21:57:13 -!- acml [~user@217.131.106.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:57 pjb: ok, no repl :( 21:58:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:58:13 Yes, repl, but really, why not libecl?! 21:58:33 It's not bigger than libc. 21:58:42 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 21:59:20 osa1: on the next part of your rant, i'd believe that you might need to learn slightly more to write stuff in common lisp, in comparison to some other languages. mostly because the libraries you'll use may use certain features (like clos) that you'll need to know before using the library. though the relative amount you need to know about common lisp before you can write applications, compared to the whole thing that lisp is, isn't 21:59:20 that high. it seems you can just keep learning things from/in/with common lisp. 22:00:33 news at 11, you have to know something to do something 22:00:51 I think osa1 has a point about a smaller language being easier to get started with. There's just less to hold in your head. You don't have to think about "Should I use a hash or alist or plist for this?", etc. That doesn't make clojure necessarily better than CL, especially in the long run, but it helps at first. 22:00:52 although you can always cargo cult your way 22:02:09 But, you can get similar results by introducing new programmers to just a subset of CL's functionality at first, then gradually introducing new topics. 22:03:27 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-66-63.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:03:43 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:27 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:06:59 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:07:22 jacius: all the books about CL (apart CLHS, and ANSI Common Lisp) introduce only a subset of CL to their readers! 22:08:02 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx62-1-33.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.39.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:09:05 Posterdati: a CL reader without reader macro couldn't read strings or lists. It wouldn't be very useful... 22:10:29 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:07 pjb: Well, of course. But I'd argue for an even smaller subset than most books introduce. E.g. leave out setq, hashes (pick either alists or plists, and teach that), nth (use elt instead), probably car and cdr (use first and rest), etc. 22:13:25 are people so lazy they can't learn things? 22:13:52 (defun firresst (tree) (caaddr tree)) 22:14:08 No, but it helps if they don't have to learn as much just to get started 22:14:55 no book on CL i've seen required to learn CL in its entirety to get started 22:15:25 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 22:15:47 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:08 Java isn't simpler and that didn't stop from producing billions of code-monkeys 22:16:10 I haven't said that you have to learn CL in its entirety to get started. I'm saying it would be beneficial to new CL users if there was a clear subset of functionality to learn first. 22:16:11 stassats: what we are trying to say is even subsets of the language which lots of books teach are big to a beginner 22:16:57 jacius: and that's what's done in lisp courses. But then, there are not a lot of good lisp courses either. 22:17:07 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc1-midd16-2-0-cust160.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17:33 *osa1* should work for his finals 22:17:36 stassats: i suppose it is better than english, as far as i know its basically just slammed various europian languages together and tidied it up into a consistant grammar and such. lojban is better than esperanto though :P 22:17:37 osa1: then they shouldn't try to read such books in one day 22:18:09 pjb: Exactly. And there are many different lisp courses, and many different lisp books, and they all teach different things at the start. 22:18:10 quarkup [~quarkup@gw-ext.tagus.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 22:18:41 hey, need help getting the nth first symbols from a list 22:18:44 someone ? tia 22:18:49 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54B87633.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:02 subseq 22:19:24 there are much more math books and math courses, and they teach much more different things. 22:19:36 Brendan_T: have you tried expressing your thoughts in it? 22:19:47 akovalenko: True, but not relevant 22:20:04 akovalenko: whaddya know, everybody hates math 22:20:33 mindCrime [~chatzilla@24.106.207.82] has joined #lisp 22:20:49 if it doesn't have instant gratification people won't be happy 22:20:49 what if i want to subselect from a list? ie: having '(A B C D E F G H I) select the (D E F) 22:20:53 thank you ! 22:20:59 subseq 22:21:05 stassats: hardly, ive just read a bit and learned a tiny bit of lojban and gathered that impression along the way 22:21:11 -!- zeekill [~AcidBurn@a83-245-228-162.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #lisp 22:21:47 is lojban supposed to be an invented language aimed at making verbal communication more fluent? or is it something else? 22:21:52 And I'd say most people learn counting to 10 before they learn addition, and addition before they learn multiplication, for example. 22:22:43 madnificent: not more fluent, more logic. 22:22:44 omg stassats thanks so much 22:22:46 :D 22:22:53 Once you get past algebra there are some branching paths of different types of math you can learn, but at the start there's a pretty clear progression of topics to learn. 22:22:54 madnificent: it's supposed to be free of ambiguities and therefore more suitable for scientific research 22:23:08 pjb, fe[nl]ix: thanks 22:23:12 I guess once the brain becomes more logic, from the use of lojban, then it becomes more fluent too. 22:24:23 jacius: if you teach logarithm before addition, then they can learn both addition and multiplication at the same time. My father had slide rules, so I learned logarithms early :-) 22:24:26 madnificent: lojban also has great expressiveness for everyday ideas, it's more than just talking about logic and science :) 22:25:20 slash_ [~unknown@p54B87633.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:33 pjb: That's pretty cool :D 22:26:00 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54B87633.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:04 pjb: i don't know how i'd explain a logarithm to someone that only knows the numbers 1 to 10 22:26:13 jacius: ever used it in practice? 22:26:44 madnificent: just show them a slide rule! :-) 22:27:36 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:28:06 pjb: will they grasp the concept from that? 22:28:08 madnificent: i head that logarithms are more natural to humans 22:28:15 heard 22:28:30 I heard that too 22:28:31 madnificent: I spent a few months learning it, recently. I'm certainly not fluent, but enough that I can construct and dissect moderately complex sentences. But, we're getting off topic. 8) #lojban #ckule 22:28:31 they usually perceive things on a log scale 22:28:46 jacius: point taken 22:29:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:08 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.9.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:18 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 22:36:03 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:08 pitlimit [~pitlimit@dyn-160-39-55-94.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 22:39:08 -!- pitlimit [~pitlimit@dyn-160-39-55-94.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Changing host] 22:39:08 pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has joined #lisp 22:39:21 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:25 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.52.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:39:31 -!- quarkup [~quarkup@gw-ext.tagus.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Quit: THANK STASSATS] 22:40:53 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:24 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 22:41:24 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 22:41:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 22:41:44 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@p5DE92F41.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:06 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:44:20 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 22:46:22 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.41.55] has joined #lisp 22:48:37 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:22 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 22:50:52 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA06B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:54:06 !echo ?[ echo ?(+ 2 2) ] does what it is supposed to do. Cool. 22:55:02 -!- hagish [~hagish@mnch-5d86c28b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:57 Neronus: What *is* that? 22:56:07 that was going to be my question 22:56:17 is that a shell interpolation thing? 22:56:29 antifuchs: Yes 22:56:34 huh, neat (: 22:57:19 is that a library? (: 22:57:52 Well, more of a general lisp interpolation thing. It first goes and reads [ echo ?(+ 2 2) ], which in turn reads and evaluates (+ 2 2) which then reduces to echo 4, which is interpolated, so that echo 4 is executed 22:58:00 (I've been thinking about reader macros using something like commando's run stuff 22:58:14 antifuchs: https://github.com/Neronus/Shelisp 22:58:22 including things that let you pass various things via the many shell-y sidechannels 22:58:25 I forked the shelisp project 22:58:31 like current working dir, environment alterations 22:59:41 What is commando? 23:00:05 it's Xach's shell command running library 23:00:17 https://github.com/xach/commando 23:00:27 it's sbcl-specific right now 23:00:28 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:01:17 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:48 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 23:04:25 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 23:04:58 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 23:05:03 antifuchs: Thanks 23:05:38 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:08 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:41 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 23:08:56 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 23:10:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-58-40.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:58 -!- Guest76006 [~emanuele@avalon.bagnaschi.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:58 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:12:29 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:13:04 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:19 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:13:26 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 23:13:43 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-157.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:14:00 -!- iwillig [~ivan@74.72.59.207] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:19 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:17:49 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:25 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 23:18:52 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:57 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-56-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:21:22 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:23:33 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:07 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:19 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 23:26:34 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:27:59 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:10 pnq [~nick@AC816776.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:16 -!- vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:12 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 23:46:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:46:56 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:52:16 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:19 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56:09 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has left #lisp 23:56:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:59:31 hi