15:57:34 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:34 15:57:34 -!- names: ccl-logbot pnathan superflit kami` xan_ X-Scale killerboy BlankVerse juniorroy Zhivago theos fmeyer benkard ikki gigamonkey antgreen H4ns theBlackDragon saschakb rvrebane iwillig ThomasH CaZe entrix akovalenko ramusara Kenjin LiamH gko nyef urandom__ wbooze teggi bobbysmith007 ahinki sanjoyd Primpod kushal milanj homie ThePawnBreak replore ihyoyoung dnjaramba spacefrogg mogs silenius stickycake ignas nha tarmil daniel___ |3b| SidH_ peterhil evenson 15:57:34 -!- names: ccorn rtoym ZabaQ topo EarlGray osa1 alvis newcup mishoo naeg jdz trebor_dki Bahman insomniaSalt anaumov Blkt jtza8 ivan-kanis dlowe madnificent nikodemus xcv mvilleneuve mrSpec varjag angavrilov pon1980 e-user Salamander cyrillos attila_lendvai chenbing Nisstyre ASau el-maxo_ lemoinem Phoodus sykopomp karswell nialo- Yuuhi` rgrinberg fihi09 cmm am0c syrinx_ zenlunatic chrnybo` stepnem mathrick Upp3r phryk herbieB Odin- incandenza araujo AntiSpamMeta 15:57:34 -!- names: Bucciarati djinni` spacebat parabolize ianmcorvidae peddie Oddity troydm jiacobucci tali713 erg Tristam peterhil` yahooooo macrobat mornfall __main__ PissedNumlock vhost- foom freiksenet GeneralMaximus bfein ArmyOfBruce CallToPower tempire yroeht anonus k9quaint Vivitron clop mtd__ Koven DrForr Jasko df wtetzner kpal redline6561_ Borbus z0d mgr buhman Axioplase_ scode Patzy billstclair samebchase cow-orker derrida les deepfire p8m Mandus yan_ boyscared 15:57:34 -!- names: lonstein klutometis blackwol` benny rme nowhere_man Amadiro s0ber paul0 The_third_man quasisane kennyd gaidal kjellkt tsuru` abeaumont pchrist Brendan_T rahul jbalint katesmith ve BlastHardcheese xristos em vert2 lnostdal whoops totzeit pjb cscolt naryl antoszka cmatei Euthy markskilbeck setmeaway kidfoo bzzbzz Vutral levi quackv4 Posterdati aperturefever cYmen Jasko2 rotty_ j_king fmu C-Keen Iceland_jack dmiles_afk beslyrus froggey izz_ ivan4th slyrus 15:57:34 -!- names: guther cnl BrianRice dfox Nshag Shapeshifter nikodemus_ Zephyrus prip PuffTheMagic vpit3833 hugod pinterface literal tomaw guaqua ch077179 felipe oGMo mal sshirokov a7p gemelen schme shoerain daimrod art` Xach rotty finnrobi fe[nl]ix rootzlevel ljos churib jayne inklesspen vsync hyko Neronus clog Jabberwockey dodecahedron housel zakwilson morphling Obfuscate luis elliottjohnson sepi albino jsnell wolgo dcrawford gensym`` eno sbryant setheus_ cods 15:57:34 -!- names: Quadrescence Yamazaki-kun billitch joast TristamWrk pokes pkhuong adeht ecraven ski_ OliverUv Hypah Fade koollman Intensity frozencemetery rabite aoh tessier krl maxm----- `micro ``Erik Dodek nicdev_ Adrinael ruediger ineiros kanru _3b CrazyEddy Saeren eli orangejuice austinh rpgsimmaster flip214 v0|d felideon _mathrick Ralith qsun lusory Khisanth elliottcable e0 cataska gkeith_lt ace4016 Pepe_ jeekl phadthai _krappie_ alanpearce Demosthenes rtoyg 15:57:34 -!- names: jrockway scharan cpt_nemo tty234 limetree nuba kloeri djanatyn dRbiG eMBee tvaalen shachaf fridim JoHNMiDGLeY dsp_ _root_ jlaire arbscht p_l SpitfireWP df_aldur rsynnott pok_ tychoish egn acieroid SHODAN johs cmbntr howeyc galdor reb daedric ramus zbigniew MikeSeth devhost 15:58:22 -!- Primpod [~Andrew.St@host81-137-183-81.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has left #lisp 15:59:19 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111122192043]] 15:59:26 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 16:01:06 Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.240.111] has joined #lisp 16:01:07 jdz: that's a fun failure :) 16:02:10 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.87] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:02:52 nikodemus: but at least SBCL has a name for it: vicious metacircle! 16:03:08 all we need is some demons to spawn out of it 16:03:55 -!- pnathan is now known as pnathan|work 16:04:40 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:04:49 what happens is that a deadlock is detected during print-object, which causes more printing, which confuses the metacircle detection logic 16:05:58 that's the general shape anyways. the devil is in the details 16:06:06 McRibbit [~user@astmatix.ida.liu.se] has joined #lisp 16:06:14 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.87] has joined #lisp 16:06:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:08:50 nikodemus: so what file is that define-condition in? 16:10:33 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:15 src/code/condition.lisp 16:12:08 git grep def.*package-at-variance-error # git grep is great for that sort of thing 16:12:20 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:10 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.87] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:18:20 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:18:39 Ah, in your email you said package-variance-error which is what I was grepping for. 16:19:08 sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:20 Hmmm. Can't C-c C-c it because of a package lock. Well I'm about to get on the road. I'll try this later. 16:19:40 Just override the lock? 16:23:39 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:40 nyef: yeah, but I don't know how. I'll figure it out later. 16:25:42 madnificent: Your readme confused me  I kept trying http://is-right.org/ before realizing it was an org file in the repo. 16:25:54 -!- gigamonkey [~user@cpe-76-167-161-98.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:25:55 Should be a restart for it, surely? 16:25:59 Oh well. 16:26:13 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-193.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:26:44 mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.119] has joined #lisp 16:27:15 there is a restart for it :) 16:27:19 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.119] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:22 called CONTINUE 16:28:26 (and a bunch of others, but actually hitting a package lock on that sounds odd) 16:30:07 Xach: Am I reading the code correctly? ql:local-projects-searcher looks into the first thing that is an existing directory and ignores the rest of the list, even if a system with the given name has not been found? 16:30:54 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:31:15 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:31:32 Neronus: you are. it's a bug that has been fixed and is pending release. 16:31:49 Makes me glad I didn't publicize it much! 16:31:54 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:32:26 Hmm, I thought I fixed it. 16:32:27 *Xach* checks 16:32:58 ah, fixed 16:33:09 sorry, didn't update. I didn't notice the new client update 16:33:14 Ok, phew. 16:33:24 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:33:49 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.63.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:55 In postmodern, when using dao-class, is it possible to specify that a slot has a different name in the underlying database table? 16:35:04 *Neronus* votes for introducing the name xach-ware 16:35:14 I'm using quicklisp and buildapp quite heavily 16:35:48 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-107.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:35:54 *Xach* has pending buildapp updates 16:36:15 xachare 16:36:34 zware 16:36:35 Logiciels Beane 16:36:48 zxware 16:38:03 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:31 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:24 xachare reads like the German word "schachern" to me, and that's not a good association :) 16:41:53 -!- H4ns [55b34a88@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.179.74.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:45:19 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:45:24 drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:46:08 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-111-9.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:46:28 *nikodemus* manages to reproduce jdz's metacircle 16:49:23 chp [~user@dyn-carl-202-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:51:54 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 16:52:39 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-179-132.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:55:45 -!- ignas [~ignas@85-206-22-190.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:30 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 16:57:47 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:57:57 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:00 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:52 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:02:11 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.128.148.23] has joined #lisp 17:02:18 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:05:56 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:12 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:37 Is it possible with loop to have a variable set up at the beginning of each iteration like with does before the first iteration? 17:09:02 Borbus: FOR, perhaps. 17:09:09 Borbus: for var = first then subsequent 17:09:40 Borbus: first and subsequent are dummy names, the first value the subsequent values. 17:09:53 Oh yeah, I can just leave off the then 17:10:09 Thanks.. had a brain freeze 17:10:29 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@189.102.74.140] has joined #lisp 17:10:40 Borbus: Yes, but whatever you set it equal to gets evaluated each iteration. 17:12:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.92.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:13:14 Yeah.. I was just ignoring it in my brain search due to the then bit :P 17:13:20 I need a rest I think 17:13:25 -!- les [les@unaffiliated/les] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:50 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.213.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:15:06 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@189.102.74.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:15:16 -!- sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:15:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.92.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:16:41 sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:29 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:18:39 anyone have experience with s-xml lib? 17:18:57 I tried it very briefly before settling on CXML 17:19:18 I see. 17:19:26 ok, well, here's a question of style: 17:19:47 s-xml has a list of entities in it. They're abridged, to say the least. They're most definitely not exhaustive. 17:20:04 I'm wondering if it's better form to modify the library and submit a patch, or override the library in my code only 17:20:29 why not both? 17:20:32 by override, I mean use established mechanisms to use my custom data 17:21:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.92.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:44 Shaftoe: my impression of all the s-* libraries is that they are effectively unmaintained. I would be very happy if that impression is wrong. 17:21:57 Xach: :*S 17:22:00 =) 17:22:13 I'm sad to hear that right now. 17:23:21 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-70-21.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:23:23 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:23:33 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:24:08 Xach: I don't think I could watch a video with that kind of sound quality even if my life depended on it. Would you consider providing a transcript? 17:24:13 oudeis [~oudeis@host86-189-5-178.range86-189.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:38 Hexstream: No way. What makes you think it's any easier for *me* to listen to? 17:24:58 Hi 17:25:07 Shaftoe: How did you come to use S-XML? 17:25:30 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:34 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.215.231] has joined #lisp 17:25:44 Xach: don't recall the exact path of libraries I went through, but I do know I used something that made use of libxml. My main gripe was that I needed to be able to parse very lax html 17:26:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-14-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:26:07 after quite a few days of working on various libraries, s-xml seemed to do the job well enough 17:26:17 When I want to parse any kind of HTML, I use Closure HTML. So far so good. 17:26:25 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:42 Xach: is it native lisp? 17:26:47 Shaftoe: yes. 17:26:57 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 17:27:07 Xach: I might eventually give it a try. it's not burning a hole in my pants atm ;) 17:27:34 I should hope not. 17:28:07 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F70C8C.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:48 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:54 Xach: Presumably you have some idea of what you said, so even if you miss a few words you can reconstitute them. Seriously, I can't even make out a lot of words... And, if you transcript those 50 minutes with a lot of pain, nobody else will have to suffer through that or just give up. 17:29:31 If you send me a transcript with missing parts, I will try to fill in the holes. 17:29:33 *Hexstream* considers making a partial transcript for the glory... and then you'd fill up the words/sentences I can't make out. 17:29:37 Eh. 17:29:58 I think it might be more fruitful to mess with it in some kind of sound editor. 17:33:18 iirc cxml has an s-xml compat mode 17:33:24 -!- sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:34:37 Shaftoe: I think you really want to use cxml 17:34:40 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.146.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:34:55 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:18 s-xml is predicated on the belief that XML is a simple format. It isn't. 17:35:21 nikodemus: you mean to say it produces the same data structure? 17:35:38 Shaftoe: the s-xml compat mode works very well, however 17:35:43 well, I'm not actually using s-xml per se. I'm using s-html which is built on s-xml 17:36:00 hmm. I take that last sentence back 17:36:04 ok. Maybe I'll try out cxml 17:36:13 do we have a html5 parser in lisp yet? 17:36:40 that would be the ideal, honestly. something like webkit would be great... but I dream. 17:37:28 Xach: last change in log is 2008. Is CXml maintained? 17:37:50 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:37:59 sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:28 Shaftoe: it is maintained in git 17:38:34 aye. I see it now. 17:42:05 -!- chp [~user@dyn-carl-202-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:11 nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:47:23 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-xqkpjbfjofybqhrv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:47 ah, it's coming back to me now. 17:48:49 Hum. After transcribing the first 20 seconds I think I'm ready for the "mess with it in some kind of sound editor" approach. 17:49:35 closure-html forces proper documents. Even when I parse snippets (i.e. the top level element isn't ) it creates a top level html + body elements. 17:49:38 any ways to get around this? 17:49:47 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.53] has joined #lisp 17:50:02 Shaftoe: To what end? 17:50:08 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:14 What would it mean to get around it, to you? 17:50:16 Parsing text in a rich text editor 17:50:22 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:29 user entered data. 17:50:33 it's not top level 17:50:39 What's the problem? 17:50:55 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 17:50:58 you mean what I'm trying to solve? 17:51:24 I mean, what problem does the structure introduced during closure-html parsing pose for you and what would you have it do differently to avoid it? 17:51:38 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:51:52 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:51:53 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-txyennkulbnzjtoz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:32 I need to make sure that when I give it a well formed piece of DOM, it remains essentially identical in strucutre (no moving around of script blocks and what have you), and that it can parse it like it is html and not xml. This will allow me to do html aware operations on html snippets. 17:52:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:53:02 having the body introduced makes that break down, unless I carve out the body tag manually. but even so, I'm not positive it's not putting things "where they ought to be" 17:53:45 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 17:53:59 is that clear enough? 17:54:01 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 17:54:22 I don't understand the domain enough to say, sorry. 17:54:32 *Xach* is limited to fairly simple scraping when it comes to html 17:54:48 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-sreczuniysywrecb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:59 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:56:02 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:57:33 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 17:57:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:01:51 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:01:54 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:24 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 18:03:41 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:04:10 I don't know jackshit about sound editing so I officially give up. o_o 18:04:13 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 18:05:01 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:06:28 nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:06:28 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:06:53 Xach: well, for what it's worht, the cxml is already consuming crap html better than the s-xml library. so I think I'm going to stick with it and iron out the wrinkles. 18:06:59 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-107.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:01 thanks for the tips 18:08:29 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:59 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:10:39 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 18:10:50 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:12:29 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:17:08 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:18 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:19:16 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.128.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:01 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.58.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:08 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:26:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:33 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:28:31 dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:38 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-70-21.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 18:29:22 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:52 cl-mechanize uses the same approach that I've been home-cooking for awhile on the web scraping front. 18:35:28 the caveat is that it will choke on seriously syntactically malformed html. 18:37:00 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-28-232-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:51 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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[~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:26:23 Fade: what do you scrape? 19:29:44 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:31:36 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.167.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:32:08 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:34 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 19:33:34 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:45 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.23.59] has joined #lisp 19:33:45 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.23.59] has quit [Changing host] 19:33:45 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 19:34:08 google, yahoo, various other web sources. 19:34:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:34:49 the bbc in particular has a long standing problem that causes the drakma+chtml+stp combination to choke. 19:35:03 although the details of it are currently missing from my recall. 19:36:20 *Xach* scraped his city's assessor database to get info about recent home sale prices 19:36:30 marsell [~marsell@120.19.190.174] has joined #lisp 19:37:41 H4ns [5b3d4196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.65.150] has joined #lisp 19:38:13 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1785.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:48 the chtml+stp combination is a good one, but it reacts badly to pathological cases. 19:39:29 we also ran into a few cases /w google where drakma wanted to encode query parameters that google didn't want to be encoded. 19:39:46 drakma was correct wrt to specification, but I guess google doesn't care. 19:40:52 I've had the same issue with Amazon AWS. puri's the wrinkle, not drakma directly. 19:41:02 *nod* 19:41:25 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 19:41:27 ravster [~user@67.69.17.122] has joined #lisp 19:41:32 Hello all 19:41:46 yo 19:42:24 Greetings 19:44:28 spending a few hours hacking about on a web scraper really causes the spirit to be filled with astonishment that the web ever works, like, at all. 19:44:43 I've tried googling this, but couldn't come up with anything that helped. I see that most lisp projects (Open source) are bsd- or mit-licensed, and wondered why there aren't so many gpl-ed ones. I saw that there is a Franz preamble to the lgpl. Is there something about the way lisp implementations work that makes gpl not a good idea for them? Thanks. 19:44:47 dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:47 Fade: lol 19:44:55 so much ridiculous crap gets served up as 'html' 19:45:35 ravster: it's mostly cultural 19:45:38 Fade: it works so poorly even when it's "correct," you can't normally tell ;p 19:45:57 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:01 ravster: I don't know. I choose BSD rather than GPL because I don't care if someone uses my work and makes changes and uses it in proprietary software without sharing those changes. 19:46:06 ravster: the GPL does need tweaking to be unambiguous in the context of Common Lisp, but these tweaks exist; they're just less popular. 19:46:16 ravster: If I cared, I'd use the GPL instead. 19:46:19 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:21 ravster: there are techical realities in lisp systems that cause the GPL to be more pathenogenic than it is in C or C++ 19:46:28 Fade: I think the focus is on being read by humans, not scraped, so it's left up to the browser devs to deal with the crap. As long is it looks good when finally rendered the vast majority don't care. 19:47:00 I also don't care if someone wants to use the GPL for the Lisp software they write. 19:47:00 i think the gpl applies to lisp code like to any other code. it is the lgpl that needs tweaking, because the lgpl assumes a c linkage model. 19:47:01 it's LGPL that has funny interactions with the Lisp model. GPL is equally virulent in both 19:47:02 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-99.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:30 entrix [~entrix@95-28-232-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:47:41 anyhow, I like the GPL, and I tend to use it with the franz preamble for my own stuff. 19:47:49 I prefer the BSD because I don't fully understand all of the ramifications and politics of the GPL. Consequently, I tend to shy away from using GPL'd code. 19:47:58 ravster: use of GPL is falling in any case 19:48:07 (for new projects) 19:48:27 probably largely because of the percieved legal complexity if you ever let it touch anything else 19:48:50 Shy away from GPL'd code in addition to note using the GPL. 19:49:16 I like BSD-style because I like the idea of my code being useful to other people no matter what they're doing 19:49:24 I mean, a couple of decades on, there are still controversies (as with Android Bionic). Back in the day, Stallman was of the opinion that simply conforming to an interface was infringement; he now isn't 19:49:25 *ThomasH* needs someone to edit his IRC posts before submitting them, this stream of consciousness thing is not working out well. 19:50:10 Sun/Oracle have also tried vaguely to claim that clients for the MySQL wire protocol must be gpl licensed or else mysql commercial licensed 19:50:18 The whole thing is very, very messy 19:50:19 ziyadb_ [~ziyadb@90.148.61.76] has joined #lisp 19:50:45 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host126.186-109-13.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:50:46 -!- dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:39 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-138-141.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:52:08 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:52:12 -!- sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:52:44 -!- ziyadb_ [~ziyadb@90.148.61.76] has quit [Client Quit] 19:52:51 Thanks for all the info. So just to be clear, the technical issue with CL is only for lgpl, and not for gpl, right? 19:53:33 ravster: right. socially, gpl'ed lisp software is rare and many avoid it. 19:53:42 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.123.39] has joined #lisp 19:54:28 okay, cool. Thanks again, everyone. I appreciate it. 19:55:41 -!- kami`` is now known as kami 19:56:32 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:44 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: time to go..] 20:00:50 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-sckofjbzpwwlrdul] has joined #lisp 20:01:20 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 20:01:37 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-158-178.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:16 chp [~user@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:44 benny [~benny@i577A1EB4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:32 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:05 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 20:16:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:21 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:13 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-193.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:17:27 ThomasH_ [4b1349ad@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 20:17:40 -!- ThomasH [4b1349ad@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:17:47 -!- ThomasH_ is now known as ThomasH 20:18:35 zenoli [~pk@dsl-207-245-69-62.cust.oldcity.dca.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:25:52 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:51 nonduality [~Brucio-12@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:29:52 dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:31 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:24 -!- nonduality [~Brucio-12@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:59 -!- McRibbit [~user@astmatix.ida.liu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:43 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:32:45 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:32:50 nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:32:53 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:34:38 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:34:38 Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:34:38 -!- Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:20 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.167.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:35:20 -!- dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:02 Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:42:27 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:24 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:32 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 20:48:24 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:17 diablo84 [29221964@wikia/Deetaha] has joined #lisp 20:50:39 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:51:23 Quick question: which Lisp interpreter for Mac OSX is adequate to be used with SICP? 20:51:25 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:50 diablo84: The language of SICP is Scheme. 20:53:00 Unless you're looking for more of a challenge, I'd recommend asking the #scheme people. 20:53:02 diablo84: I'm not sure which Scheme environment is best for Mac OS X, but #scheme might know. 20:53:37 Xach, nyef: thanks a ton! 20:57:05 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-138-141.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:16 dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:06 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 21:01:01 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:01:28 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.102.36] has joined #lisp 21:01:41 diablo84: why! Chicken, of course. 21:02:12 I should have suggested asking markskilbeck! 21:03:19 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:03:23 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:03:52 Xach: you leave me alone! 21:06:13 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.42.187] has joined #lisp 21:13:11 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.218.80] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.91.1] 21:13:41 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.128.148.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:13:43 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:18:34 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.49.241] has joined #lisp 21:20:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 21:20:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:21:11 -!- ravster [~user@67.69.17.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:38 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 21:22:26 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:22:38 pferor` [~user@160.Red-2-136-238.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:50 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:24:15 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:26:08 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26:15 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 21:27:12 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:27:29 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-059.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:30:35 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-94.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:53 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-94.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:49 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:32:53 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:34:57 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:03 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 21:35:52 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:59 -!- diablo84 [29221964@wikia/Deetaha] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:38:24 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 21:40:41 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 21:42:40 hmm. chtml seems to transform   into a "weird" character that is not %20 21:42:47 anyone familiar with this? 21:43:46 char code 160 21:43:59 Shaftoe: no-break space 21:44:13   is not an encoding. 21:44:15 it's even in latin-1, what's weird about it? 21:44:30 encoded character I mean. 21:44:46 weird in that: it should remain   as an entity. otherwise it's assuming the document as the proper charset set 21:45:22 160 on utf-8 looks like this: Â 21:45:53 could you post a snippet of code to it's easier to understand what you're trying to do? 21:46:12 sure 21:46:12 s/to it's/so it's 21:47:13 sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-80.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:47 -!- gensym`` [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:49 code 160 in unicode is no-break space. When it's written in latin-1 and then interpreted in utf-8 (together with some other byte), it's indeed possible to see something other than no-break space -- but then the problem is in external format used when it was read or written. 21:48:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126141 21:49:17 hi, base64 is not great for URLs, as it has characters that it would have to be escaped. what can I use instead to encode byte arrays as URL friendly strings? 21:50:24 akovalenko: I'm aware that it can be reinterpreted. This is why html entities exist in the first place. To be character encoding independent. I'm wondering how I can have chtml not literalize the entities. 21:50:40 puchacz: hex dump? 21:51:00 Phoodus, why not use all available letters and numbers? 21:51:01 puchacz: there are URI-friendly variants of base64. I think cl-base64 even implements it. IIRC, you plreace +/ with -_. 21:51:18 * you replace 21:51:27 http://blooberry.com/indexdot/html/topics/urlencoding.htm is what you're looking for. 21:51:29 pkhuong, shall I replace it myself? 21:52:41 so no ideas on chtml's default entity handling behaviour? 21:53:38 sellout1 [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:47 Shaftoe: (chtml:make-character-stream-sink :encoding "ascii") will get you   21:53:57 pkhuong, found it, thx 21:54:06 in cl-base64 src 21:54:24 -!- sellout [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:54:39 akovalenko: thanks. that actually unbreaks my problem. Do you know if it's possible to let it keep the human friendly entities? or is that asking for too much? =) 21:55:14 Shaftoe: no idea. This character-stream-sink is what I was able to find in two minutes, actually :) 21:55:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-212-70.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:33 ok, I'm grepping through source now anyways, I'm sure I'll find something 21:55:35 -!- Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.240.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:47 I'm afraid that it might be impossible in chtml, btw. 21:56:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-188-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:08 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:04 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:00:16 -!- pferor` [~user@160.Red-2-136-238.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:02:16 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-8-197.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:14 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:28 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:06:09 why you say that? 22:06:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.17.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:15 it's very sad to see this, btw. 22:06:18 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 22:08:21 does anyone know of good examples of the use of ContextL? i've read one of the papers, but can't get a grip on how it could be put to good use. 22:08:24 it's imo incorrect behaviour given that you can't specify output charset. 22:09:31 Would specifying the output charset even make sense? You get back a lisp string, not an array of bytes. 22:09:32 Shaftoe: when some forms of output are semantically equivalent (for unhuman reader), a good library is sometimes able to meet some formal constraint in its output (like the encoding), but an implementation of "human friendly when possible" output is not what I'd expect generally. 22:09:49 pinterface: charset != encoding 22:10:17 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:10:22 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:43 akovalenko: yes, I was referring to the specific case where it was just clobering it down to a char code without asking. The #xx; for is correct, but not awesome. 22:11:06 Ah, right. 22:11:11 akovalenko: the two forms being absolutely equivalent, I see no need in changing the input data. 22:11:25 (with-output-to-string (out (make-array 0 :adjustable t :element-type 'base-char)) ...) vs. (with-output-to-string (out (make-array 0 :adjustable t :element-type 'character)) ...) 22:11:27 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.123.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:12:02 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:02 Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.240.111] has joined #lisp 22:12:02 -!- zenoli [~pk@dsl-207-245-69-62.cust.oldcity.dca.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:13 akovalenko: in CL, there are only two charsets standardized, base-char and character. 22:12:20 They're often the same. 22:12:36 Shaftoe: chtml is a real parser, and it has (sort of) equal internal representation for semantically equal data. So it has either to turn   into  , or   into &#nbsp; 22:12:57 Shaftoe: the source form is simply *not there* when the output is produced. 22:13:04 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.146.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:13:46 akovalenko: I hear you, but given that the two are identical, what bad can come from leaving either or? The only downside I can see is comparisons of the parsed data structure 22:13:53 (by non library agents) 22:13:57 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:59 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.42.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:14:53 in any case, in this case, I'm actually ok because the data gets modified statelessly: it's not saved back into an area humans can edit. so I'm just being a devil's advocate. 22:14:53 Shaftoe: /every/ character can be encoded as &#; 22:15:28 Shaftoe: so it would have to support both forms, with fallback to &#, if an entity name would be preferred 22:15:59 akovalenko: yes. But it's all in the data nodes. actual node names or attributes can not contain entities. 22:16:22 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:41 akovalenko: so the data need not be parsed unless it's in the form of fixing broken data which violates proper html syntax (e.g. an unescaped >) 22:17:35 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Quit: am0c] 22:17:36 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:17:56 zenoli [~pk@dsl-207-245-69-62.cust.oldcity.dca.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:58 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-168-90.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:10 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 22:19:51 ..the data need not be parsed? I'd say that depends on your purpose. What if I want to search for "cat food" in some html, so it will match cat food and cat food?.. 22:21:11 By my count, "cat food" is 7/8 the same as "cat food". 22:21:29 the proper way to do that would be to walk the tree and coallesce all text nodes - that would handle cases like "cat", and then walk through the string 22:22:04 walking through the string, you could then, *in a specific charset only*, literalize entities. 22:22:10 And you might weight random garbage, particularly random non-alphanumeric garbage, in a space location as being substantially similar to a space... 22:23:15 you'd need to do this because "cat food" would otherwise appear different from "cat food" where that space is actually char 160 22:23:30 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-094-218-047-186.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:24:18 my point is simply that text nodes are data nodes. they can have anything in them and not change the DOM structure. which is why internally carrying around entities in their original form is not a big deal. 22:24:41 -!- ThomasH [4b1349ad@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 22:24:43 -!- Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.240.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25:51 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:19 Well, should CL strings carry an original external-format's code point, too? 22:27:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-059.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:28:09 not at all, the programmer knows what the string he has in his hand is encoded as 22:28:31 not in CL. 22:28:58 it's not "encoded" when he "has" it, it's encoded when written and decoded when read. 22:29:28 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:12 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:12 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:20 what I mean is that if as a programmer, I make an application and use chtml, I, as the application developer, know what encoding I'm dfealing with. As such, I will, at compile time, pick my encodings appropriately. I don't need that knowledge to be present at runtime. 22:32:24 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:13 When I use a parsing library that pretends to "understand entities", having them mapped to characters is one of the major reasons to use it at all. 22:33:54 that is, if I have to walk a tree and literalize entities, it means that ~ half of the parser is not yet there :) 22:34:15 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:48 agree. the parse should provide "flattener" routines. In any case, I just finished working around this whole thing now. 22:35:52 thanks for the input 22:36:42 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:15 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw268248.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:53 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:26 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 22:40:29 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:34 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.63.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:36 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.48.68] has joined #lisp 22:42:24 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:44:00 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:52 paul0` [~user@200.146.127.36.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:48:05 -!- paul0 [~user@177.42.34.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:50:13 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 22:50:14 agumonkey [~agu@139.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:23 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.48.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:55:50 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@173.204.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:28 puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:58:35 drdo` [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:58:57 -!- drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:03 If I want to evaluate more than one function in a single condition in (cond (cond1 ...) ...), is there a better way of doing this than using progn? 23:01:07 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:15 ifnspifn: there is an implicit progn. 23:01:29 ifnspifn: (cond (cond1 a b c) ...) evaluates all of A, B, and C. 23:01:34 well, if cond1 holds. 23:01:40 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:01:44 well that's handy as heck, thanks 23:01:47 it is IF that needs progns. 23:02:27 I see. I suppose I coulda tried it before asking here :P thanks anyhow 23:02:33 Okay, time for me to get out of here. 23:02:36 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:02:53 ifnspifn: http://l1sp.org/cl/cond also has the spec to review 23:04:15 ah, a polite way of saying rtf! 23:04:18 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:19 rtfm, even 23:04:29 Farzad [~root@46.225.120.26] has joined #lisp 23:05:05 -!- pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:05:32 hi, is anyone using weblocks here? i need some help with getting it to work 23:05:53 do you have it installed? 23:05:57 yes 23:05:58 ifnspifn: it's a super resource! 23:06:05 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0348.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:06:20 ifnspifn: i mention it because trying it will only tell you if it happens to work, not if it's meant to work. 23:06:27 what's the issue? 23:07:05 xach: much appreciated :D I was only kidding. Also, is 'form' the generic term for an s-expr? 23:07:26 http://l1sp.org/cl/glossary/form 23:07:30 ok first of all: is the version that quicklisp downloads compatible with hunchentoot 1.2 ? 23:08:01 Farzad: it should build with the hunchentoot that comes with quicklisp. 23:08:15 Farzad: out of curiosity, what CL are you using? 23:08:17 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:31 Xach, sbcl 23:08:50 "building" and "working" are not the same thing, of course. 23:09:04 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:09:36 it builds so far 23:09:43 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:06 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 23:10:26 and the demo works, but the problem is when i try to run the clsql demo 23:11:03 Kron [~Kron@98.143.102.36] has joined #lisp 23:11:29 -!- Kron is now known as Guest69995 23:11:32 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:11:38 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.102.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:11:48 (weblocks-clsql-demo:start-weblocks-clsql-demo :port 80) ==> The function CLSQL-SYS::RELEASE-TO-CONN-POOL is undefined. 23:12:09 Farzad: what did the weblocks list say? 23:12:29 list? 23:12:59 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:13:23 benkard_ [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 23:13:29 Farzad: you know, the people who use and support weblocks, who discuss it on a mailing list. 23:13:31 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:13:31 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 23:13:46 l_r [~lr@adsl-ull-70-6.42-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 23:13:47 hello 23:13:56 well no answer so far, been about 18 hours 23:14:10 what operation is performed between -5 and c ? 23:14:33 and 23:14:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:37 (and -5 c) 23:14:41 incf w (* (- 5 (aref *weights* c)) (if (eql (bref board c) player) +1 -1)))) 23:14:46 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 23:15:04 pjb, that's cryptic to me.. can you help to interpret it? 23:15:15 No. 23:15:40 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 23:15:47 probably some kind of evaluation function for a board game. 23:16:02 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:20 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16:43 pnq [~nick@ACA221EF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:17:24 yes, does it mean w = w + (-5 * weight(c)) . if (c.player != player) then w = w * (-1) ? 23:18:16 i don't understand what operator is between -5 and (aref *weights* c) 23:18:40 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@user-0c9h4tj.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:47 There is no -5 and operators don't go between, but prefix. 23:19:21 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:19:49 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:19:52 pjb, ok but what is 5 (aref *weights* c) ? 23:20:05 Have a look at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 23:20:10 ok 23:20:11 thx 23:20:21 ah ok, you mean it's a prefix notation 23:20:23 It is (- 5 (aref *weights* c)). 23:20:34 now i understand 23:20:42 operator is before operands 23:20:49 5 - *weights*[c] 23:21:20 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-169-35.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:54 is incf a built in function meaning increment? 23:24:25 yes. 23:24:29 not a function.. 23:24:38 You can find the predefined operators in clhs 23:24:50 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 23:25:08 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25:34 l_r: you can use describe to find out about a given symbol: (describe 'incf) 23:25:42 or http://l1sp.org/cl/incf <== you can type an URL like that without looking up anything 23:26:38 thx 23:28:31 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:30:24 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:34:01 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-28-232-234.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:56 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:37:24 *evenson* ponders a syntax for Java aspects in Lisp. 23:37:57 I suppose I could just shoe-horn in CLOS. 23:38:26 Or just use the AspectL library... 23:38:33 But there's no libraries in lisp... 23:40:23 Is there really an AspectL? 23:40:26 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:38 Yes, but it's deprecated. Have a look at ContextL instead. 23:40:59 evenson: yes. AOP has... funny history in CL 23:41:02 But of course, lisp libraries if they existed, wouldn't be maintained. 23:41:16 Maybe that's changing a bit. 23:41:32 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:32 QL throws quite a bit of heat on whatever it incorporates. 23:42:17 p_l: is tehre a succint starting point to learning this history 23:42:28 easyE [9dQdnxEiHD@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:40 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:59 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-94.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:43:06 s/tehre/there/ 23:43:25 evenson: the quote about how little impressed the audience at ILC was when AspectJ was presented seems a good starting point, iirc 23:44:19 My case is a bit unique: my host language is Java, so Aspects are actually pretty useful in debugging/patching other JVM code artifacts. 23:44:30 also, AspectL is deprecated. It turned out that the pointcut functionality of AspectL does not make a lot of sense in Common Lisp, and the support for dynamically scoped generic functions has been replaced with much better mechanisms in ContextL. 23:44:35 *easyE* probably shouldn't capitalize aspects. 23:45:21 *easyE* goes to study ContextL a bit. 23:46:15 But naturally I want to "script" these aspects from Lisp. 23:47:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-188-125.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:47:22 i.e. I wish to "script" them from an interactive REPL resident in the JVM. 23:47:50 ah, found the quote 23:47:55 I am reminded of Gregor Kiczales (sp?) at ILC 2003 displaying some AspectJ to a silent crowd, pausing, then plaintively adding, "When I show that to Java programmers they stand up and cheer." 23:48:03 Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.240.111] has joined #lisp 23:48:11 easyE: hi! 23:48:15 I can certainly see why that occurs. 23:48:21 *evenson* waves to Xach. 23:48:34 evenson: your blog post formatting is somewhat fucked 23:49:03 acknowledged. 23:49:06 *evenson* goes to fix. 23:49:31 evenson: personally, AspectJ somehow never had that "hook" for me, and the same happened to AoP. Now, method combinations... 23:49:45 (and layered and filtered dispatch) 23:49:56 http://abcl-dev.blogspot.com/2011/11/abcl-servlet-unleashed-to-unsuspecting.html is the one i mean 23:50:10 Yeah, I've got it in the editor now. 23:51:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-188-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 23:51:29 tcr1 [~tcr@user-0c9h4tj.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:59:39 Xach: republished with better text. Sorry about that.