00:01:37 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:09:38 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:10:48 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:12:15 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #lisp 00:16:41 zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178171086.5.12.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 00:17:50 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 00:18:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:37 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:19:37 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.24] has joined #lisp 00:20:59 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 00:23:52 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.81.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:16 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.66.230] has joined #lisp 00:31:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:36:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello062178171086.5.12.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:39:13 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:39:55 -!- pnathan [~Adium@c-66-235-46-34.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:41:59 pnathan [~Adium@c-66-235-46-34.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:23 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:34 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:48 pnathan1 [~Adium@c-66-235-46-34.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:37 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:20 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:30 Farzad [~root@46.225.110.170] has joined #lisp 00:46:31 -!- pnathan [~Adium@c-66-235-46-34.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:03 Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.26.77] has joined #lisp 00:51:19 hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 00:52:27 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:52:57 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@c-66-235-46-34.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:53:18 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:22 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-oczahanyaxiasbfc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:01:17 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:57 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 01:07:25 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 01:07:46 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:09:05 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:30 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 01:10:18 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-71-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:10:36 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:11:11 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:11:25 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #lisp 01:11:55 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:59 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:04 -!- Farzad [~root@46.225.110.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:16:37 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:47 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:23:54 superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-67.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:07 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 01:25:41 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:28:38 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.71.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:43 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:41:38 entrix_ [~entrix@93-80-222-35.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:41:50 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 01:45:35 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:53 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:43 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 01:55:47 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-144-138.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:57:52 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:00:57 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-67.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:09 superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-67.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:12 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:18:06 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:21:20 topo [~topo@f053045029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:21:26 ehine1 [~ericyoda@cpe-69-205-201-49.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:54 Hi, is it possible to export an .obj or dfx file from a opengl app made in common lisp? 02:21:58 is there a library for this? 02:22:36 if there isn't you could write your own 02:22:48 obj is trivial to implement 02:23:15 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:29 ummm 02:23:51 how? 02:24:04 kpreid [~kpreid@72-255-124-244.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:11 OpenGL doesn't implement any file formats for objects, so it's more a question "Do I know how to save a model into such format?" 02:24:46 topo: you start by reading the specification of the file format and then write code that transforms whatever you use internally in the application into it 02:25:06 ok thanks 02:25:21 seems a little complicated 02:25:43 other programming languages has libraries for exporting in different formats as dxf, obj, stl etc 02:25:44 ... not really 02:26:42 topo: it's not a function of the language. It's a function of a graphic engine to have code to read/write such files 02:26:47 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:26:54 OpenGL doesn't give a shit about what is the on-disk format 02:27:29 i found auto lisp 02:27:30 and you can always link to external libraries that support native linking using FFI 02:27:36 is that compatible with common lisp? 02:27:57 topo: no. AutoLISP is a quite ancient dialect used internally as part of AutoCAD 02:28:56 liking with externals libraries you mean using libraries made in other programming languages inside common lisp? 02:29:39 topo: yes, calling other libraries that support your OS' ABI (usually whatever floats the boat for C, though Windows and VMS have slight extras there) 02:30:44 can i use java libraries? 02:31:27 with ABCL, easily 02:31:40 (ABCL is a CL implementation running on JVM) 02:32:55 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:55 pundit [~gopal@mk046207255088.a1.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:29 i found this 02:34:30 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B1B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:31 http://common-lisp.net/project/ply/src/ply/cl-obj.lisp 02:42:01 -!- pundit [~gopal@mk046207255088.a1.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:46:35 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:46:39 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:32 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 02:51:04 -!- syrinx_ is now known as mrderp 02:52:05 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-71-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:53:06 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-71-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:53:41 -!- mrderp is now known as syrinx_ 03:00:11 qzg [~qzg@ppp227.ld.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:44 -!- qzg [~qzg@ppp227.ld.centurytel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:02:58 mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has joined #lisp 03:03:35 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:47 -!- topo [~topo@f053045029.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:05:18 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-67.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:30 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:10:05 topo [~topo@f053039012.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:12:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:13:43 -!- entrix_ [~entrix@93-80-222-35.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.48.155] has joined #lisp 03:18:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.48.155] has quit [Changing host] 03:18:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:18:28 wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.156.79] has joined #lisp 03:23:26 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:22 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:29:24 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 03:29:56 ars-delirum [~Adium@189.217.171.93] has joined #lisp 03:30:06 -!- ars-delirum [~Adium@189.217.171.93] has left #lisp 03:41:56 jpop [~rmln@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 03:42:50 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:42:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:43:24 hello. sorry for slight OT but is anyone familiar with slimv plugin? I like it, but I'm wondering what's causing the delay when sending a form to the swank, and if it's perhaps possible to make it shorter? 03:43:25 -!- qeed [~qeed@adsl-98-85-59-217.mco.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-142-11.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:29 fridim_ [~fridim@78.250.230.59] has joined #lisp 03:46:44 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:08 ASau` [~user@89-178-12-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:51:17 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:03 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@118.186.129.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:18 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@78.250.230.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53:20 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-201-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:59:05 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:19 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177698358.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03:42 -!- el-maxo_ [~max@p57A5749E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:46 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8EA44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:11 -!- waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:06:23 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:06:27 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 04:06:48 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:02 ikki [~ikki@228-externo-1p5ec.vxn.itelcel.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:15 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:11:11 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:53 lghtng [~don@pdpc/supporter/active/lghtng] has joined #lisp 04:18:05 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:19 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:19:25 -!- borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:09 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.215] has joined #lisp 04:22:09 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.215] has quit [Changing host] 04:22:09 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:22:15 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-71-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:26:31 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:20 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:31:18 -!- Em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:45:39 -!- mmauryc [~mmmau@cpe-69-201-143-154.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@228-externo-1p5ec.vxn.itelcel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:07 -!- PuffTheMagic_ [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:53:12 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 04:54:04 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 04:58:44 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:44 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:58:44 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 04:58:57 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:29 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 05:01:58 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:05 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:04:16 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:05:50 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:42 sellout- [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:18 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-bmfhstqfulqmbimk] has joined #lisp 05:11:18 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-bmfhstqfulqmbimk] has quit [Changing host] 05:11:18 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:14:13 -!- Kron__ [~Kron@69.166.26.77] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:14:22 -!- rme [rme@50BE4D1C.A884877E.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 05:18:54 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:18 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:38:30 -!- borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:30 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:01 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: Heaven isnt a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.] 05:45:21 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:55 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 05:48:17 tugosavi [~tugosavi@dhcp-192-207-37.in2cable.com] has joined #lisp 05:49:33 superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-67.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:38 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 05:51:02 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:02 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.12.24] has joined #lisp 05:55:31 oudeis_ [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:56:00 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:57:03 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:58:41 -!- lghtng [~don@pdpc/supporter/active/lghtng] has left #lisp 06:03:50 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:05:05 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:56 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 06:09:30 H4ns [57a9efee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.239.238] has joined #lisp 06:17:03 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 06:17:10 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:13 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:21:20 bsod1 [~sinan@88.242.138.114] has joined #lisp 06:26:35 -!- prip [~foo@host143-123-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:29 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 06:29:40 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-squiadosezpjciff] has joined #lisp 06:30:38 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.103.172] has joined #lisp 06:32:20 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 06:38:02 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 06:39:56 prip [~foo@host195-9-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:46:00 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:27 -!- tugosavi [~tugosavi@dhcp-192-207-37.in2cable.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:50:54 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:50:54 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 06:58:32 peccu [~peccu@ZL198045.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:59:11 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:56 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:04:30 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:04:50 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 07:05:15 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:05:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.28.91] has joined #lisp 07:07:26 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 07:11:19 replore__ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 07:11:22 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:48 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 07:15:01 Good morning. 07:16:11 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 07:18:32 tugosavi [~tugosavi@203.192.254.252] has joined #lisp 07:18:44 z1l0g [jgw@miku.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 07:19:39 -!- z1l0g [jgw@miku.sdf.org] has left #lisp 07:23:24 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-138-70.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:56 jpop: what order of magnitude are you talking about? 0.1sec or 10 sec? 07:27:48 -!- peccu is now known as peccu_ 07:28:25 -!- peccu_ is now known as peccu 07:28:26 quek [~read_eval@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 07:29:04 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:29:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.28.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:00 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:38:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:44:17 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 07:45:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-41-64.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:45:32 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 07:48:09 drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 07:50:08 good morning #lisp 07:51:55 stickycake [~stickycak@ool-ade5658a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:36 -!- quek [~read_eval@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has left #lisp 07:54:06 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:54:26 drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 07:54:58 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 07:56:08 -!- drl_ [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Client Quit] 07:58:44 no-name- [~no-name@207.240.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:00:20 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:01:00 -!- herbieB_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:01:10 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:02:10 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.0.36] has left #lisp 08:02:53 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:03:43 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 08:05:15 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-44-164.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:15 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-44-164.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:05:15 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:06:18 herbieB_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:08:16 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:08:16 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:08:53 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:10:03 entrix_ [~entrix@89-178-118-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:10:27 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:35 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:10:49 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:12:20 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:05 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:17:34 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:19 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:23:14 nostoi [~nostoi@57.Red-81-44-159.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:20 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:23:30 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@ool-ade5658a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 08:23:57 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:26:11 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.156.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:26:57 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-fqgogcmpiugpppqu] has joined #lisp 08:35:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-14-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:36:16 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:38:24 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 08:46:07 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:48:49 hypnocat [~hypnocat@ool-4575ea16.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:51 -!- no-name- [~no-name@207.240.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:50:53 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:06 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 08:51:09 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:52:34 -!- entrix_ [~entrix@89-178-118-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:54:37 good morning everyone 08:54:46 -!- replore__ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:54:46 hello Blkt 08:55:00 hi 08:55:48 -!- rme [rme@50BE4D1C.A884877E.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 08:55:49 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has quit [Quit: rme] 08:56:27 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 08:57:15 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:57:26 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:57:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-190.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: lost terminal disease] 08:57:50 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:58:02 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:20 -!- H4ns [57a9efee@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.239.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:00:01 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has left #lisp 09:00:15 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:02:58 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.103.172] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:03:18 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@77.51.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:03:30 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d069487.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:35 Good morning! 09:04:19 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:24 Good morning serichsen. 09:04:54 Xach: I'd like to announce the next meeting in Hamburg: Monday, 2011-11-28 19:00, at the Ristorante Marilù. 09:05:00 Hi, kami. 09:06:08 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 09:08:02 -!- SidH_ [~SidH@203.101.61.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:27 SidH_ [~SidH@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 09:09:59 wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.156.79] has joined #lisp 09:10:39 leo2007 [lsd@SDF.ORG] has joined #lisp 09:11:58 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.216.28] has joined #lisp 09:13:31 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:16:59 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:17:31 _joey [~joey@110.23.175.86] has joined #lisp 09:17:50 -!- _joey [~joey@110.23.175.86] has left #lisp 09:17:56 ave Blkt :) 09:17:57 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:19:40 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@57.Red-81-44-159.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:19:46 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 09:20:23 -!- jpop [~rmln@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 09:21:22 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 09:21:54 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 09:26:41 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 09:27:16 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29:02 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:29:05 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:29:26 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:31:35 Nopik [~Nopik@92-244-56-108.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 09:31:56 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:20 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:32:29 H4ns [5ce7d0eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.231.208.235] has joined #lisp 09:34:13 -!- tugosavi [~tugosavi@203.192.254.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:25 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d069487.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:44:13 nonduality [d41f5a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.31.90.45] has joined #lisp 09:44:21 silenius [~silenius@i59F70DBC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:49:12 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:49:57 -!- ymas [~ymas@unaffiliated/ymas] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:37 I'm trying to start cl-webdav in hunchentoot following http://weitz.de/cl-webdav/ 09:51:33 Under 'Example' it shows the easiest way to start a webdav server 09:52:01 But I can't find (tbnl:start-server :port 4242) 09:52:22 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:52:44 the following (hunchentoot:start ..) obviously starts a server on port 4242 09:52:56 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:53:24 but I get a 403 for http://localhost:4242/ 09:54:23 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:54:30 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:52 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 09:56:41 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 10:01:48 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:06 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:45 Shapeshifter [~Shapeshif@unaffiliated/shapeshifter] has joined #lisp 10:05:09 Harag [~phil@wbs-41-208-196-101.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:05:14 kami: maybe cl-webdav has not been brought up to date to the latest Hunchentoot? 10:06:20 Hi there. I worked through part of the practical common list book some time ago and I now would like to pick up lisp again for a small experimental project. I need two recommendations for tutorials: A) How to write web services in lisp, B) How to effectively use lisp with vim (I used slime in emacs the first time around but I'd like to avoid emacs this time around) 10:07:15 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.12.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:07:58 -!- SidH_ [~SidH@203.101.61.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:41 SidH_ [~SidH@203.101.61.7] has joined #lisp 10:08:42 Shapeshifter: in my opinion, a) writing web services is not the best way to learn programming languages, and b) anybody not using a proper environment for lisp developement are doing themselves a huge disservice 10:08:55 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-71-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:09:02 jdz: proper environment meaning emacs? 10:09:05 Shapeshifter: i'd recommend against "avoiding emacs". it is by far the best free development environment for lisp. 10:09:20 kami: cl-webdav has not been updated. 10:09:23 Shapeshifter: yes, or one of the commercial IDEs 10:09:28 kami: patches would be welcome; 10:09:42 oh well 10:10:12 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:10:19 jdz, H4ns: thanks. Is there some kind of logging or such which I can activate to see what happens? 10:10:19 Shapeshifter: developing lisp using vim is probably the same as developing java in vim 10:10:43 -!- easyE [mBcRsGbFde@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:10:50 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 10:11:03 Shapeshifter: except the whole lisp developement approach is not based on restarting the whole program after each edit 10:11:26 jdz: only that the java+vim user population is larger by order of several magnitudes than the cl+vim population. 10:11:30 jdz: but I don't really need to run the repl inside emacs, do I? 10:11:35 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A684.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:47 Shapeshifter: why do you think you don't need it? 10:11:48 huh? using slimv i get function-name completion and documentation for lisp in vim too 10:11:59 kami: hunchentoot logs to the console. you can also set tbn:*catch-errors-p* to nil or use *debug-on-signals* 10:12:12 There seems to be an acceptor-message-logger 10:12:29 kami: true. that is responsible for logging messages. you can trace that. 10:12:29 H4ns: thanks. 10:13:07 eMBee: right. you can write lisp programs using vim, but emacs supports lisp much better. 10:13:08 jdz: I was asking. The thing is, emacs itself poses a hurdle and requires a lot of learning to use properly. I barely manage using vim. 10:13:13 -!- leo2007 [lsd@SDF.ORG] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 10:13:44 Shapeshifter: It doesn't require a lot of learning to use improperly, and an improperly used emacs is still pretty useful. 10:13:54 -!- Nopik [~Nopik@92-244-56-108.home.aster.pl] has left #lisp 10:14:07 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082907D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:14:39 jdz was comparing vim+lisp with vim+java, which i disagree with. (but then i don't know what support there is for java in vim, i use eclipse for java) 10:15:08 eMBee: so you don't know what vim does for java, and that's why you disagree? 10:15:28 eMBee: i was not comparing. i was saying it makes no sense to use inferior environment if a superior one is available. 10:15:49 jdz: ah, ok, that makes sense 10:16:02 jdz: from that perspective, most software development does not make sense :) 10:16:26 jdz: well it does make sense to use the inferior environment if the superior environment takes more effort to learn than time is gained by using it 10:16:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-41-64.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:41 H4ns: you got a point there :-) 10:17:14 Shapeshifter: you assume that you'll not saving time by using emacs. that is something that most experienced lispers will disgree with. 10:17:14 -!- peddie [~peddie@repl.esden.net] has quit [Quit: peace!] 10:17:16 if the environment takes more effor to learn, is it really superior? 10:17:23 Shapeshifter: i disagree. i can already imagine you coming here for advice, and showing code snippets which are indented incorrectly, and thus unreadable for us. 10:17:27 Shapeshifter: in fact, i know 0 (no) professional lisp programmer that uses vim for working with lisp. 10:17:46 having used emacs before, i disagree that it it takes more effort to learn however 10:18:07 allright, allright, I give up, I'll use emacs 10:18:28 \o/ victory! 10:18:29 :) 10:20:36 *fanfare* 10:21:28 C-f, C-b, C-n, C-p :/ 10:21:34 *Shapeshifter* tilts head 10:22:18 Shapeshifter: we know those keybingings, you don't have to tell us 10:22:50 Don't worry, In a week you'll be frustrated when you're browser doesn't respond correctly to those bindings. Then you're hooked. 10:23:27 tvaalen: browsers not responding to them is not as annoying as having letter 'i' as the first one in every input box 10:24:10 tvaalen: also, it is possible to have emacs keybingins work in GTK, and on OS X they work by default 10:24:38 except C-n, which can be quite annoying at times 10:24:55 on linux, that is 10:25:11 Well, you still can use the arrow keys to navigate, if you must. I would not try that, though 10:25:40 Neronus: I feel that the navigation keys should be the last things to teach new Emacs users about 10:25:59 peddie [~peddie@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:15 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:26:21 Shapeshifter: i went from VIm to Emacs for lisp. not saying that VIm isn't cool, but emacs hasn't slowed me down in the long run either. 10:26:24 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:26:44 The first several times I tried Emacs I went through the tutorial and most everything it taught was navigation, the gain from which didn't seem worth learning Emacs at all 10:27:15 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:27:21 the problem with emacs is, you need a special keyboard layout for it 10:27:29 Iceland_jack: you must learn how to walk, before you learn how to run :) 10:27:35 *phryk* grabs his popcorn. 10:27:37 fantazo: like "qwerty"? 10:27:53 H4ns: heresy! 10:27:55 *H4ns* uses both vi and emacs, no issues with either. 10:28:02 madnificent: Yes but coming from other editors where I was *already* able to navigate, it didn't seem very interesting 10:28:18 H4ns, not really it sucks balls with qwerty / qwertz 10:28:37 by the way http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/pirate-party-andersdotter "A friend who was much older than me told me that I would need Emacs to write TeX," she explains. "I didn't know that it wasn't true" 10:28:38 It was only later on, once I'd discovered all the cool stuff Emacs had in store that I realized how annoying it was to reach for the arrow keys when I finally quit them cold turkey 10:28:46 fantazo: interesting. i've been using qwerty for some 20 years and can't find that it "sucks balls" 10:29:48 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:29:49 H4ns: dvorak is easier on the hands, if you get used to it you'll notice it big time. however, using vim with dvorak isn't such a great experience. 10:30:12 H4ns, jdz: cl-webdav *does* seem to work. It just doesn't like GET / which is more my fault that cl-webdav's 10:30:29 Speaking of remapping keys: does anyone remap the opening parenthesis to a single key? :) 10:30:49 Iceland_jack: the navigation tutorial comes from a time when arrow-keys didn't work 10:30:52 Switch keyboard layouts is always a pain in the ass 10:30:53 madnificent: i like qwerty because i am fast on any computer, not just on those that i've configured myself. 10:31:11 eMBee: That wasn't my point 10:31:40 H4ns: i understand the choice for qwerty. neither of both is perfect. i personally find it a tad sad that qwerty is so popular and yet so bad. 10:31:42 *H4ns* is always disturbed to see pro hackers not making significant progress on other people's keyboards because they're use to, say, dvorak. 10:32:13 Iceland_jack: sorry, i missed your followup, just read it now... 10:32:14 H4ns: what are pro hackers doing on other people's keyboards? 10:32:16 kami: cool :) 10:32:33 jdz: pair programming, helping out, diagnosing problems. 10:32:37 setxkbmap dvorak seems to solve the issue quite rapidly though. besides, i seem to have my own toys to work on for over 99% of the time. 10:33:02 I'm not going to optimize for the 1% case, I am the 99%! 10:33:19 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: benkard] 10:33:23 Shapeshifter: use slimv for vim, that's what I'm using too. 10:33:37 *akovalenko* remaps []'s to ()'s in lisp modes, with M-[]'s for literal []'s 10:33:53 bah, those bad occupy satires 10:34:30 yeah, more accurately it's the 0.3% case, sorry for rounding up 10:34:32 Shapeshifter: don't listen. 10:35:27 to hiphop 10:35:29 benny, you sound like those guys I would love to hit into their stomach. 10:35:47 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-163-3.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 10:35:56 Into? 10:35:56 Shapeshifter: i've switched to emacs whilst learning lisp. i can't say that it has been perfect, as you're learning more than you bargained for. however, you'll get much more help on this channel, as roughly everyone uses slime. and if i understand it correctly, slime is much much better integrated with emacs than slimv is with vim. 10:36:26 Shapeshifter: though, unless you swap keyboards, there doesn't seem to be a reason why you can't keep using vim for other tasks. 10:37:32 well, due to the lack of bindings for stuff I usually code with, I probably wont be using lisp all the time, I just want to try it out for this project. 10:37:48 Shapeshifter: what do you normally code with? 10:38:58 I normally write most of my stuff in python, just because that's what I happen to know best. I use qt bindings. I know there are bindings for lisp, but it's not only the lack of bindings. For example, I can port a python/pyqt application from my desktop to my mobile (Nokia N900) within minutes. I don't think lisp is even packaged for my phone. 10:39:41 kidfoo [~neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has joined #lisp 10:39:52 But I'm interested in writing web services using lisp. It seems natural (although I'm clueless) and people say it's a strength of lisp. 10:39:59 Shapeshifter: See http://pinterface.livejournal.com/39435.html for fun 10:41:06 Shapeshifter if you have fast connection might want to take a look at this. shows what you can do with SLIME (common lisp environment in emacs). http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 10:41:16 Shapeshifter: coding sites in lisp is a blast, indeed 10:42:22 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:42:22 Shapeshifter: and the link kennyd gave you is a really nice thing to watch, i've enjoyed it in the past. 10:42:41 kennyd: thanks, I'm watching it now 10:43:44 Neronus: still won't help porting to the n900 though... i wonder if ECL could make porting apps to the n900 trivial, it'd probably require some groundwork 10:44:02 madnificent: Nope, but he gets all the bindings he likes to have 10:45:37 nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:45:41 -!- nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:49 that's okay, I like python ;) Doesn't stop me from trying something else, though. 10:49:52 CCL runs on the N900 10:50:15 There was a thread just yesterday on how to set it up. 10:51:17 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:51:58 looks like at least some people are interested in using lisp in the mobile world. ecl on the iphone, ccl on android, meego, webos 10:53:57 madnificent: the typical lisp user wants to use lisp everywhere. 10:54:56 Isn't that true of users of most programming languages? 10:55:04 Iceland_jack: yes, of course. 10:55:32 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-reeuughdjxkgarza] has joined #lisp 10:55:40 Also, what about the atypical Lisp user¹? ;) 10:55:53 ¹ Not anaphorically typical mind you 10:56:01 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F70DBC.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:07 oudeis_ [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:59:56 Uhm, so I broke my emacs. I hit C-a which this site says is 'go to beginning of line' but then it said "Arglist:" at the bottom and then I git some more keys without thinking because I wanted to get back (C-c or something) and now everything is frozen. 11:00:26 Shapeshifter: C-g is the "abort" key 11:00:33 H4ns: thanks 11:00:36 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:01:06 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:01:07 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:39 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 11:02:57 madnificent: I'll be a downer and point out that CCL is like a sore thumb on android (more so than ECL) 11:03:21 p_l: sore thumb? 11:03:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:00 H4ns: after dropping a wardrobe (Android) on it 11:04:19 p_l: slow? crashes? useless? 11:04:26 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:29 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:04:58 H4ns: more towards the last. Not because of being a bad implementation, but because of not mixing well with the rest of the environment 11:05:14 p_l: ok, that's like expected. 11:05:20 indeed 11:05:44 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.156.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:44 "if this is not what you expected, please alter your expectations" 11:05:52 p_l: but (defun fac (n)....!!11elf 11:06:26 that is, it would be all-okay if it was a normal linux environment. The point is, Android isn't one. So unfortunately, CCL is a no go for normal android developement (not to mention that it works only on the mid/high-end phones) 11:06:27 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:57 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:07:15 I'm very interested in how it will go for the future ABCL port, though 11:08:03 android is a drag. 11:08:48 p_l: although true, the indication is still that people are interested in doing stuff with lisp on mobile devices. i do catch what you want to say though. 11:09:13 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:09:29 madnificent: A very interesting, from my (commercial) pov area, is to use Lisp as developement environment for mobile devices 11:09:52 Shapeshifter: and what would you consider to be a good mobile operating system? frankly, i don't think any of them aren't screwed up one way or another. either by the environment they live in, or by the complete lack of usability. 11:09:55 though I was mainly thinking of mobile games 11:09:58 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:12 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:14 p_l: native? 11:11:10 madnificent: more among the lines of carefully optimized game engine, that is "assembled" by the CL-based developement environment and loaded the bytecode and other data done in that IDE 11:11:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11:31 p_l: if native, it should be feasible. opengl runs on these devices. with webos, at least, you'd be able to compile cl-opengl against the C libraries and start from there 11:11:55 madnificent: maemo 5 is/was great. It's almost a pure linux that actually behaves as you'd expect any linux to behave. Meego was a worthy successor but Nokia killed it off. First reason was that most nokians were part of the Symbian cult, second reason was that Elop (ex-microsoft) took the rudder and killed of both symbian and maemo in favour of WP7. 11:11:57 madnificent: the problem for me is Android, where I have to go with a shared library 11:12:12 entrix_ [~entrix@93-80-131-144.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:12:42 Shapeshifter: there is no future in that OS, no one is using it, thus apps aren't easy to find. also, i don't remember being able to do the simplest things like typing an sms message and then saying, right this was for 11:12:51 madnificent: and frankly speaking, that's the only platform I'm interested, with iOS as a second. WebOS is dead from my perspective, Meego would have been great but arrived stillborn :/ 11:13:02 madnificent: plus the stock applications are actually pretty awesome on the N900. the way telepathy is integrated is truely great and I haven't seen any of the competing devices do a better job at pulling together SMS, IM, phone/SIP and email this nicely 11:13:12 madnificent: indeed, it's dead soon. 11:13:13 p_l: i agree, webos is dead, it's sad to see. 11:13:15 which is a shame. 11:13:52 madnificent: I don't know what you mean by typing an sms etc. 11:14:12 -!- nonduality [d41f5a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.31.90.45] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:14:15 Shapeshifter: don't know about email, but webos with patches is pretty amazing. it really is the most productive phone, if only it wasn't as dead as it is now. 11:14:57 Well now we have tizen to see die in a while. 11:16:03 Shapeshifter: in webos you can interact in many ways. I can start typing stuff to search for, but what i've typed in can also be something i'm going to send to an application (like the messaging app, or the calendar app). this basically means that when i'm thinking "I want to have dinner with foo tonight" that i can type the massage without losing focus. If i have to use android, i'll first have to search the sms application, then 11:16:03 find foo, and by that time I've forgotten what i wanted to do :) 11:16:25 and sorry, this is offtopic 11:16:38 madnificent: sounds neat 11:18:17 sounds dead 11:18:27 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:18:53 well, I'm optimistic, sooner or later something good will come around again. There were always superior devices and they all died and other came by 11:19:22 *Shapeshifter* still mourns the death of Psion 11:21:10 Shapeshifter: if marketing decides what processor will be put in a smartphone (or any other device) and the amount of memory and the screen and ..., then how on earth could we get good consumer devices? there's this essential thing wrong with the way we currently build products. 11:21:29 -!- entrix_ [~entrix@93-80-131-144.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:35 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:05 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:22:26 madnificent: it's not the market who decides, it's Steve Jobs. 11:23:05 Steve Jobs is dead 11:23:18 well, at least they say so 11:23:19 Who will decide then? 11:23:41 morons like Elop? 11:24:09 now nobody will decide! 11:24:19 people will just have to stop making consumer electronics. 11:25:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:29:43 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 11:30:12 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:31:42 -!- drdo`` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:59 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:04 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 11:33:29 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest96818 11:33:37 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:35:03 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:06 nialo- [~nialo@pool-74-106-83-73.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:13 quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:44:07 rvrebane [~rvrebane@78-28-101-94.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #lisp 11:45:34 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.163.207] has joined #lisp 11:47:35 hi 11:48:31 tugosavi [~tugosavi@203.192.254.252] has joined #lisp 11:48:50 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:49:29 hagish [~hagish@e181028149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:01 -!- Guest96818 is now known as X-Scale 11:55:39 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:56:25 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:59:23 -!- Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.195.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:26 H4ns: i fixed the date handling as you suggested: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Simple_database#Common_Lisp don't know if that still can be improved... 12:00:54 yello Kenjin 12:01:32 eMBee: it could, but i have told you the details yesterday and i'm not interested in repeating that. 12:02:22 *eMBee* goes to read the log 12:03:29 -!- hypnocat [~hypnocat@ool-4575ea16.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 12:03:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:04:30 -!- hagish [~hagish@e181028149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05:39 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:06:15 your comments were: typechecking of arguments, fixing the date order, storing dates in a unified form. as far as i can tell, the code is doing all that now. 12:09:04 eMBee: i seemingly could not express my comments properly. sorry for that. 12:09:37 I'm not sure why slime is useful. Can't I simply edit the source files in any editor, run the repl in another window and load the files from there? How is it different from C-c C-c and switching buffers? 12:09:42 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:15 Shapeshifter: typing C-c C-c is much faster than switching windows and loading files. 12:10:33 Shapeshifter: also, you can reload individual functions, inspect the running state of your system, debug. 12:10:42 mh mh 12:11:08 Shapeshifter: more important is IMO the debugger - inspect variables in different stack frames, try to evaluate expressions in them, etc 12:11:17 that's not that easily done without slime 12:11:19 okay 12:11:25 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 12:12:13 I don't know the slime, but only slimv - but there it's a simple to get data from a stackframe ... beats debugging via (print) etc. hands-down 12:13:01 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:13:40 also 12:13:49 autocompletion, argstring prompts, documentation lookup 12:13:58 even just good indentation support 12:15:14 H4ns: oh, there is the (some #'< date-a date-b) suggestion that i missed... 12:15:48 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.242.138.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:14 sinan [~sinan@88.242.138.114] has joined #lisp 12:16:37 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 12:16:40 -!- sinan is now known as Guest45758 12:17:14 -!- Guest45758 [~sinan@88.242.138.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:42 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 12:17:44 osa1 [~sinan@88.242.138.114] has joined #lisp 12:20:17 what might I be doing wrong for cl-oauth to complain about query-string being a vector and not a string. I'm calling cl-oauth:obtain-request-token 12:20:55 -!- quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:21:46 quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:40 Joreji [~thomas@89-196.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:24:37 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:14 *Lycurgus* returns a slug. 12:27:44 hagish [~hagish@e181028149.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:34 -!- quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 12:29:16 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:32 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:37:43 H4ns: fixed now. sorry for missing that. 12:37:55 *Xach* inches closer to a qrcode maker for CL 12:41:08 eMBee: remove all uses of assoc and c[ad]+r now. also, what is (cond ((endp what) nil) (t ...)) ? hint: it is (when what ...) 12:42:15 do people actually use qrcodes? 12:42:47 rsynnott: no, we just waste hours trying to scan them in. 12:51:51 -!- anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 12:53:03 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:53:45 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 12:53:49 tugosavi_ [~tugosavi@203.192.254.77] has joined #lisp 12:54:16 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:25 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-50-76.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:52 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:05 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:57:19 -!- tugosavi [~tugosavi@203.192.254.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:57:57 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:23 -!- DrForr_ is now known as DrForr 12:58:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:15 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.66.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:52 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.6] has joined #lisp 13:00:55 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: benkard] 13:00:58 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 13:02:15 osa1__ [~sinan@88.242.74.231] has joined #lisp 13:02:27 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.242.138.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:06:55 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:09:21 -!- tugosavi_ [~tugosavi@203.192.254.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:09:35 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:50 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:09:59 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-151-114.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:11:28 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:34 knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:21 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:39 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:15:12 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:18:05 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.216.28] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.91.1] 13:18:48 H4ns: done, thanks 13:20:05 nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:20:41 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-138-70.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:21:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:46 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:21:59 -!- nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:16 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-170-114-39.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 13:30:51 sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-53.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 13:33:13 sacho_ [~sacho@90-154-150-53.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 13:36:06 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-53.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:40 evenson [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 13:40:38 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:08 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.216.28] has joined #lisp 13:41:39 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:49 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:42:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:14 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B44F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:31 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 13:50:38 morning 13:50:57 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 13:51:00 lmatteis [u3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fdvblslzstsysszc] has joined #lisp 13:51:03 Hello! 13:51:14 *Xach* pushes some :documentation updates to ancient softwares 13:51:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:51:35 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:51:42 I want to learn lisp, and I figured doing a web app in it would be the easiest thing to get started. Is there an easy interpreter I can use? Which one would you reccomend? 13:54:11 lmatteis: common lisp is a compiled language. clozure cl and sbcl are the most popular compilers here. 13:54:27 lmatteis: as for "easy", i don't know. you certainly want to use quicklisp if you like easy. 13:54:31 compiled to machine code? 13:54:43 so there's no interpreter? 13:55:53 lmatteis: doing a console app should be easier, start with (+ 1 1) 13:56:06 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:12 lmatteis: the system compiles everything you enter and then executes it. 13:56:29 isn't that called interpretation? 13:56:41 lmatteis: Not usually. 13:57:10 Anyway, I use SBCL for web stuff and quite enjoy it. 13:57:11 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:58:24 Xach: where do you get libs for it from? is there a package manager? 13:58:57 i personally use both SBCL and CCL (and change between them just to see some new warnings) 13:59:01 lmatteis: I use Quicklisp http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 13:59:30 lmatteis: quicklisp is unfortunately more useful if you already know what you want to get. it's not super for exploring what's available for a particular task. 13:59:39 I wonder what will happen the day Xach stops using Quicklisp 14:00:12 Xach: so what if i wanted to download a lib to help me run a webserver? or maybe a webserver library? 14:00:32 lmatteis: You want hunchentoot. 14:00:34 lmatteis: you first find out which library that is, and then use quicklisp to get it 14:01:06 lmatteis: hunchentoot is the thing i use 14:01:59 Xach is getting all the libs from quicklisp? doesn't that create a circular reference? ;-) 14:04:20 great 14:04:27 installing sbcl on mac is already not working 14:05:24 lmatteis: try ccl 14:08:46 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:09:52 entrix [~entrix@95-28-188-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:10:39 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-232-74.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:43 swig + defconstant + sbcl => madness 14:10:55 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-232-74.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@72-255-124-244.client.stsn.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:15:07 Neronus: (handler-bind ((sb-ext:defconstant-uneql #'continue)) ...) 14:15:41 been there, done that, doesn't work with (compile-file ...) for some reason 14:15:41 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.63.233] has joined #lisp 14:15:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:15:43 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 14:15:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.63.233] has quit [Changing host] 14:15:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:18:10 I'm unhappy about the decision to make defconstant work while loading and while compiling and then not specifying that they have to be uneql. In fact, I could work around the problem by hacking swig 14:19:29 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:20:55 lmatteis sbcl works fine on my mac. what issues are you having? 14:21:57 lmatteis: works pretty well for me. i get it from www.sbcl.org. 14:22:05 lmatteis: and then i rebuild it from source with thread support. 14:22:31 yes i downloaded the source 14:22:37 and just ran sh install.sh as the document states 14:22:50 and getting: install.sh: line 13: output/prefix.def: No such file or directory 14:22:51 ... 14:23:06 lmatteis: you need to build before you can install 14:23:14 lmatteis: maybe you want to download a binary? 14:23:20 1. BINARY DISTRIBUTION 14:23:23 if the binary was available. sure! 14:23:24 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:24 lmatteis: or ccl. it does not require you to rebuild it. 14:23:27 2. SOURCE DISTRIBUTION 14:23:34 where is the binary? 14:23:38 i cannot find it on their site 14:24:25 lmatteis: the green squares can be clicked to download. 14:24:27 http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 14:24:30 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:31 "The table below links to the latest binaries for SBCL on each platform, where are available." 14:24:46 ah beauty 14:25:15 wow 9 mb? certainly not as small as i was hoping ;-) 14:25:31 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:38 sorry :-) Batteries not included 14:25:47 If only it was as small as java... 14:26:30 lmatteis: I think your experience with CL will be non-stop disappointment if you have a lot of preconceptions about how things should be. 14:27:07 chenbing [~user@218.72.95.224] has joined #lisp 14:29:11 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 14:29:42 Xach: i agree 14:29:56 am mostly doing it for learning 'something new' 14:30:03 not for productivity 14:30:57 lmatteis: one option is to adjust or discard preconceptions 14:34:43 ok :) 14:35:20 X-Scale` [email@89.180.160.218] has joined #lisp 14:35:25 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:08 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.163.183] has joined #lisp 14:37:23 hi lisper ! 14:37:32 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890648.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:38:08 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:39:33 just ( slowly ) test my colmak keyboard layout. 14:41:49 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:34 splittist: burn java, burn. but people tend to forget the jre's and jdk's size 14:45:49 madnificent, do you hate java that much ? 14:45:53 :O 14:46:09 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:20 morphism: i loved it before i got to know other, more expressive, languages! 14:47:33 weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.lain.pl] has joined #lisp 14:47:56 -!- weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.lain.pl] has left #lisp 14:47:58 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@server.204.196.itcsa.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:59 Common Lisp ! 14:48:21 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.6] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:48:47 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.6] has joined #lisp 14:49:01 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:49:47 brainfuck! 14:49:48 morphism: common lisp wasn't the start of that, but it seems to be an endpoint 14:49:52 ... well, you are lucky, I hate java since I was learning it at school 14:50:20 any recent developments on the lisp OS front? 14:50:49 (to snap back to topic) 14:50:59 LoL, is there one ? 14:51:12 (or at least try) 14:51:23 Lycurgus: yes! you just asked about it, which means you ought to continue work on it. IIRC the original dev (sorry, forgot who it was) wasn't going to spend time on sbclos on the short run. 14:51:25 morphism, yet many 14:51:34 *yes 14:51:52 in C ? 14:51:54 madnificent, thx, hadn't heard of sbclos! 14:52:34 you were thinking about genera then? 14:52:54 are you talking to me? 14:52:59 yup 14:53:09 no, I meant what I said. 14:53:26 though of course I'm aware of genera, lisp machines, etc. 14:53:42 oh, you weren't talking about anything in specific 14:54:00 a generic thing can still be specific, madnificent 14:55:51 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-squiadosezpjciff] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:10 sbclos appears to be a dead salient of Lemonodor 14:57:09 it may still work, if you ask him about it, he'll likely tell you what the next steps are 14:57:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:57:39 madnificent, kthx 14:58:59 (fwiw, I meant pieces parts, like iolib oder, not necessarily the whole magilla) 14:59:00 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:10 Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.195.90] has joined #lisp 14:59:25 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 14:59:56 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 15:01:19 nanoc [~conanhome@190.15.199.148] has joined #lisp 15:01:20 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:39 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 15:01:58 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:58 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:06 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:24 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 15:02:44 fridim_ [~fridim@78.250.236.104] has joined #lisp 15:02:45 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:12 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-reeuughdjxkgarza] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:03:25 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 15:05:00 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:17 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:28 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:55 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:08:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:09:54 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:41 nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:10:58 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:11:05 -!- nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:18 Martiini [~martin@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:11:59 how about Movitz ? 15:12:00 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:25 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 15:15:58 Until I started writing wrappers in CL I never know that emacs (or rather slime) actually has a progress bar when fontifying erros 15:17:21 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 15:17:28 morphism: i had forgotten about it 15:17:50 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 15:17:58 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:18:03 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 15:18:35 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:22:15 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 15:22:21 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 15:24:30 those remind me of my previous lisp impl on .NET attempt 15:25:43 does allegro have its own clx? 15:26:18 prolly 15:27:27 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:11 antifuchs should know... 15:28:20 http://franz.com/support/documentation/8.2/doc/release-notes.htm#clx-1 also 15:28:23 tugosavi_ [~tugosavi@203.194.97.101] has joined #lisp 15:28:45 Anyway, portable clx does not build on allegro 8.2 but does with some light changes. don't know if it works, though. 15:29:00 benkard [~benkard@mnch-d9bdcbe9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:51 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:30:42 Guthur [~user@host86-148-167-49.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:53 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@78.250.236.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:31:11 stands to reason they'd had to maintain for their priced products on nix platforms 15:31:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 15:31:27 CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 15:31:36 you know what's really awesome? 15:32:11 no what? 15:32:30 common lisp. 15:32:32 :p 15:32:50 *Lycurgus* whacks j_king with a nerf bat. 15:33:06 Lycurgus: gg 15:33:18 Lycurgus: Why nerf? :p 15:33:21 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 15:33:29 :O 15:33:57 =)) 15:34:03 funny 15:34:52 because this isn't #scheme 15:38:07 -!- hlavaty [~user@91.65.217.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:33 -!- nialo- [~nialo@pool-74-106-83-73.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:33 -!- Martiini [~martin@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46:06 ThomasH [46822acb@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:46:13 Greetings lispers. 15:47:17 nialo- [~nialo@pool-74-106-72-37.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:24 urandom__ [~user@p548A52AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:34 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:53:30 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-35.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:58:20 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111116091359]] 16:02:30 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-19-79.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:43 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-144-138.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:55 G'morning all. 16:05:27 G' evening nyef 16:05:28 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 16:05:34 o/ nyef 16:06:30 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A52AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:38 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.163.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:09:52 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:10:30 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.163.183] has joined #lisp 16:10:56 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 16:12:10 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 16:12:39 -!- emma_ is now known as em 16:14:25 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:14:34 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.163.183] has left #lisp 16:15:08 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 16:15:28 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:15:35 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-153-31.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:16 the reg 16:18:23 oops, wrong window 16:19:15 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:19:51 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-151-114.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:57 Neronus: Do you take requests? 16:22:23 chenbing` [~user@218.72.95.224] has joined #lisp 16:22:35 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-35.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:11 Xach: Probably. What do you wish for? 16:24:28 -!- chenbing [~user@218.72.95.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:24:52 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:59 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:25:16 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 16:25:44 Neronus: :description in .asd file, and license info 16:25:54 Xach: Will be done 16:26:23 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-fqgogcmpiugpppqu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:43 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:34 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 16:27:40 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:27:47 gigamonkey [~user@cpe-76-167-161-98.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:27:50 is there a particular unit testing framework that is used by convention? been thinking about getting that smoke testing system going; would be useful to have a common way to run and parse test reports 16:28:04 redline6561: you here? 16:28:27 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:28:36 j_king: there are several. Xach might have the best sense of which ones are more or less popular. 16:28:39 j_king: I use lisp-unit, maintain an extension of it. It works pretty well, but the reporting is primitive. 16:29:11 j_king: I'm trying to free up some time to implement updates to it. 16:31:03 ThomasH: cool.. TAP would be a nice extension for test output. the idea is to create a server that runs the unit tests across N compilers on k platforms and report the results. 16:31:23 Xach: Like this? 16:31:31 I actually don't know offhand what people use 16:31:42 You could analyze the system relationships to find out, maybe 16:32:27 Neronus: looks nice. I'm not familiar with the word "diagramm" 16:32:48 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 16:32:53 damn. German mistake. One second 16:33:21 j_king: Off the top of my head, that could be accomplished using swank. I don't see that as a core part of the unit test library, it would be an extension. 16:33:36 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-86.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:33:40 thinking of licence info.. wouldn't it be great to have (ql:use-only-non-gpl-systems)?.. 16:33:52 akovalenko: i intend to provide that kind of info sometime. 16:33:59 j_king: It would be a fairly complicated extension. There is a fair amount of factoring of the core required at the moment that would probably facilitate doing that. 16:34:57 ThomasH: understood 16:39:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:09 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:23 ThomasH: I'd be writing the server part that runs all the stuff. it will just have to assume the test runner outputs a common result format like TAP or something I guess. 16:41:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:41:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:43 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 16:41:52 j_king: I'm not familiar with TAP, let me Google it. Are you familiar with swank? 16:42:34 familiar as a user 16:42:43 http://testanything.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page 16:43:07 j_king: Reading up on TAP, looks like it would be a good extension to lisp-unit. 16:43:20 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:43:26 j_king: Thanks, that's where I am. 16:43:26 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.140.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:14 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-170-75.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:13 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:20 -!- tugosavi_ [~tugosavi@203.194.97.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:48:36 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-216-43.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:48:37 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:46 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:00 j_king: I won't be able to dig into this until the end of next week. 16:52:06 ThomasH: I'm in no rush, no worries. 16:52:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:25 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:52:44 just putting feelers out there. i've been sitting on this idea for a while and it still seems like a good one. ;) 16:53:25 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-53.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:53:58 j_king: lisp-unit hasn't received any attention since April. I was working on an internal set of fundamental tests for the core of lisp-unit, got stalled on one aspect and haven't taken any time to work on it since. I think I have a solution. 16:54:18 BrianRice` [~water@174-21-122-121.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:24 ThomasH: coolio. :) 16:54:27 j_king: Once the internal tests are complete, I'm going to change how the test data is internally organized. 16:54:38 j_king: TAP definitely fits into the system after that. 16:55:00 ThomasH: good to know! if you could use a hand, lemme know 16:55:11 j_king: Externally, the tests definitions will see no changes. The reporting will improve. 16:55:17 j_king: Thanks. 16:56:41 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-122-121.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:56:41 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 16:56:57 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 16:59:05 Tegi [~Tegi@123.20.58.106] has joined #lisp 16:59:18 -!- Tegi [~Tegi@123.20.58.106] has left #lisp 16:59:45 Tegi [~teggi@123.20.58.106] has joined #lisp 17:00:16 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:23 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:38 -!- H4ns [5ce7d0eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.231.208.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:04:26 -!- Tegi [~teggi@123.20.58.106] has quit [Client Quit] 17:04:30 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.216.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:50 -!- ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:15 tugosavi_ [~tugosavi@203.194.97.101] has joined #lisp 17:05:16 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:06:03 gah 17:06:17 why can't I do ((list #'+ 2 2)) ? 17:06:50 anvandare: Because lists in function position aren't evaluated? 17:07:08 anvandare: (list (#'+ 2 2)) 17:07:17 o_O 17:07:38 ... that very carefully doesn't behave as expected, surely? 17:08:00 nope 17:08:18 :[ I honestly forgot everything I ever learned about lisp 17:08:22 Then again, what are you actually trying to do? 17:08:45 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:53 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 17:08:57 I thought: ((list #'+ 2 2)) => 4 17:09:09 anvandare: You probably wanted (eval (list '+ 2 2)) 17:09:12 -!- tugosavi_ [~tugosavi@203.194.97.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:16 yes 17:09:19 (funcall #'+ 2 2) --> 4 17:09:24 i'm guessing this is why macros exist 17:09:28 anvandare: :) 17:09:46 back to lisp 101 it is :( 17:09:47 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:03 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-d9bdcbe9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:06 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-d9bdcbe9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:06 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 17:10:19 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 17:10:32 both list and #'+ are function call 17:10:36 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 17:10:47 Umm... No. No, they're not. 17:10:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:52 i thought #'+ was the function symbol? 17:11:05 it is 17:11:10 hmm 17:11:12 #'+ is (FUNCTION +), and FUNCTION is a special form... 17:11:16 and the first argument in in (....) is a function too 17:11:21 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 17:11:42 but only the first is supposed to be 17:12:34 en ,#' is a symbol-function 17:12:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:13:03 sorry 17:13:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:13:27 (apply (funciton +) '(1 2 3 4)) 17:13:40 ahhhh 17:13:41 #'+ is not the function symbol. 17:13:43 function* , bleh 17:13:49 ok, it finally got to me 17:13:55 ((+ 2 2)) is not a proper form 17:13:57 derp :< 17:14:14 #' is not a symbol-function; it's a dispatching macro character. 17:14:22 right 17:14:28 ((lambda () (+ 2 2))) should be, though. 17:14:41 ((lambda () (+ 2 2))) is a proper form. 17:15:26 because it returns a function, whereas my thing just returned a list, right 17:15:44 anvandare: what because? 17:16:06 ? 17:16:13 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.216.28] has joined #lisp 17:16:16 anvandare: you're not making any sense. 17:16:37 no, i mean, when i did (list #'+ 2 2) it returned a list... and ((+ 2 2)) isn't valid, since (+ 2 2) is a list, not a functoin 17:16:50 Yes. 17:17:09 Since (+ 2 2) is not a lambda list or a symbol denoting a function, macro or special operator. 17:17:15 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:17:47 anvandare: a lambda form in the car of an sexp is a special case. It's not that it returns anything per se 17:18:21 i thought a lambda returned a ... well, i'm not sure about the terminology, a function symbol? 17:18:33 It is not evaluated, anymore than the lambda in (function (lambda (x) x)) is evaluated. 17:18:43 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Quit: Oh, this thread again...] 17:19:00 (lambda ...) in an evaluated position is just a macro, expanding into (function (lambda ...)) 17:19:03 anvandare: In operator position, or in (function ...), they're not evaluated therefore they don't return anything. 17:19:14 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:19:30 anvandare: alone, a lambda form expands to (function ...), since cl:lambda is defined as a macro epxanding such. 17:19:35 how do you unintern an anon lambda ? 17:19:36 anvandare: when evaluated, yes. In this case, it's a very special case, and it's read as it is and used as a function. 17:19:40 anvandare: (function (lambda ...)) returns a function 17:19:48 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 17:19:51 homie: functions are not interned. Only symbols are interned. 17:19:54 and what does (lambda ...) return then? 17:19:57 homie: what? 17:20:09 anvandare: when it's in the CAR of a sexp, nothing. It's just used. 17:20:13 anvandare: (lambda ...) expands to (function (lambda ...)) ; it's function that returns something. 17:20:19 ... What about constructing (# 2 2) ? 17:20:26 homie: you don't have to. GC should collect it when it becomes inaccessible. 17:20:28 nyef: it's meaningless. 17:20:39 nyef: the operator must be either a symbol, or a lambda form. 17:20:39 (lambda () (+ 2 2)) => # how do i unintern that ? 17:20:48 hi! I just installed emacs; does anybody know of a good resource for setting up a scheme environment? I need details on installing an interpreter 17:20:51 homie: it's not interned. 17:20:56 nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:20:57 so the print name is not interned ok 17:20:58 homie: how do you unintern #S(point :x 42 :y 24) ? 17:21:04 hmmm 17:21:08 ThePawnBreak: wrong channel. This channel is only for Common Lisp. 17:21:11 -!- nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:14 homie: your question is meaningless. Just use the memory, and let the garbage collector do its job. 17:21:14 ThePawnBreak: try #scheme, or #racket 17:21:16 how do I unintern 0? 17:21:32 Ah, right. A symbol or a lambda expression, literal function objects need not apply. 17:21:34 akovalenko: your question is meaningless. Just use the memory, and let the garbage collector do its job. 17:21:38 akovalenko: (unintern 0), duh 17:23:16 *akovalenko* is using my memory. It's obviously better than my rhetorical skills... 17:24:33 I had a friend who was uninterned once... he's now a fully certified doctor. 17:24:34 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:54 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 17:25:43 adeht: My ex-wife was uninterned, she's a pilot now 17:25:44 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@89-196.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:22 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 17:26:31 Iceland_jack: does she have a car or is she an atom? 17:26:37 are the trolls following me or what ? lol 17:26:59 am i the fluter of troll-city ? 17:27:00 lol 17:27:15 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 17:27:15 adeht: that's a fairly personal question 17:27:27 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-86.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:28:19 adeht: It could be both. 17:28:35 pjb: perhaps.. he did say "ex" 17:28:51 just what are you insinuating? 17:29:10 (car 'nil) --> nil (atom 'nil) --> t 17:29:40 ..true car owners are never atomic. 17:29:53 and nil is not true. 17:31:16 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-170-114-39.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:31:36 rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has joined #lisp 17:31:59 *sykopomp* wonders if 'CDR' is too short for a license plate in the US. 17:32:04 lutok [~luckystok@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:05 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:32:11 sykopomp: Add 3 numbers 17:32:20 sykopomp: My other CAR is a CDR. 17:32:23 Or 3 more alphanumeric characters 17:32:28 try CDDDDR 17:32:36 !!!! 17:32:43 (incf adeht) 17:32:59 what DDR ? 17:33:01 lol 17:33:39 don't try to change me! 17:33:41 more than 4 D's not guaranteed to work ? 17:34:10 or not allowed ? or just not viable as coding standard ? 17:34:26 cause it gets on the eyes or so ? 17:35:32 homie: yes. For more, we write cIXDr 17:35:39 exporting new symbols (like CDDDDDR) from COMMON-LISP package is not allowed. So any CL:CnDR is either guaranteed to be there, or forbidden. 17:35:53 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:36:00 sykopomp: It might depend on the state, but I've seen NH plates at least that short. 17:36:34 nyef: I think CA is longer. 17:36:38 Than 6 17:36:55 As a minimum length for a vanity plate? 17:37:30 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-35.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 nyef: Hm, not sure about vanity plates. Those have never appealed to me, so I don't know the rules. 17:37:47 NH plates default to seven digits (base 10), grouped as three and four, but vanity plates are cheap enough that a huge number of people have them... 17:37:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.103.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:42:54 superflit_ [~superflit@71-208-212-67.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:03 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-67.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:03 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 17:43:07 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0D09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:06 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-153-71.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:48:49 -!- chenbing` [~user@218.72.95.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:04 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 17:50:11 gigamonkey: herep 17:50:14 => t 17:51:02 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:52:37 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:54:17 Yo. Did you see my tweets? 17:54:17 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:30 I just pushed some updates to prose-diff 17:54:43 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 17:54:56 Were you looking for something that would take two strings and return a string of HTML? 17:55:42 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:56:46 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:56:47 Hum. Hopefully it's kosher to inherit directly from the base metaobject classes like class/generic-function/method etc in portable code? Any good examples of doing that? I'm making a new kind of generic function that invalidates some assumptions about method congruence and such and that seems to preclude just inheriting from standard-generic-function... 17:57:10 gigamonkey: I did. You're fantastic. Thanks. :) 17:57:16 Gotta run for a bit. Cheers. 17:57:21 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_nop 17:59:30 I'm just hoping I won't hit a brick wall of unwarranted assumptions in the implementations if I do that... If it's been done before successfully that would be encouraging. Else I guess I'll just run fast and see if I hit the brick wall :) 18:01:46 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:03 Hexstream: it should be portable if you use closer-mop. i don't know which assumptions you're invalidating, but it'll likely fit in what amop describes 18:02:26 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:03:15 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.103.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:05:43 One particular assumption I'm invalidating is "all methods of the generic function have the same number of required arguments". 18:06:45 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:07:55 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:09:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:32 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.28.91] has joined #lisp 18:09:41 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 18:10:05 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:30 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 18:10:37 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 18:10:57 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:04 The MOP clearly specifies what methods you can and cannot override and how and what the semantics are, but it specifies everything in terms of subclassing standard metaobjects, so by subclassing the base metaobject classes directly I guess the specified rules don't have much bearing (at least where they contradict the semantics I want to achieve). 18:11:31 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 18:12:09 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.103.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:16:40 -!- nialo- [~nialo@pool-74-106-72-37.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18:46 kruft [~user@c-24-1-176-247.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:52 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@78-28-101-94.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Quit: time to go..] 18:22:19 Hexstream: that might be a problem, but nothing you can't work around. you can accept the same number of required arguments, by specifying the arglist as &rest rest and creating a binding manually. 18:24:44 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:08 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 18:25:22 AMOP should be able to answer that question semi-authoritatively. 18:26:13 madnificent: I'd like to present a nice high-level interface, avoiding implementation tricks/workarounds that leak through. The new kind of generic functions would have lambda lists like (what &others others), where an &others argument is like &rest except it acknowledges that methods can have further required arguments. 18:27:37 -!- ThomasH [46822acb@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 18:28:08 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-35.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 18:28:17 -!- Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.195.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:31:47 gigamonk` [~user@cpe-76-167-161-98.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:18 Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.195.90] has joined #lisp 18:33:41 -!- gigamonkey [~user@cpe-76-167-161-98.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:06 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-67.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:40 Hexstream: add some macrology to make things easy from the frontend, and use the minimal amount of necessary parameters in your normal method definition. it might yield problems with the way the method preference is calculated, so you may need to do redo that. 18:37:50 superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:24 -!- knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:39:26 Hum. I don't think adding macrology is the kind of solution I need for the kinds of problems I'm expecting... For instance, if I call (generic-function-lambda-list #'my-phased-generic-function), I definitely want to get (what &others others), not (what &rest others). Anyway, I guess I'll do just fine. It's just a bit more reimplementing of stuff than I expected. 18:40:17 nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:40:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:36 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 18:43:15 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:37 -!- nikodemu_ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:30 sacho_ [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 18:53:31 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:45 iwillig [~ivan@pool-71-161-154-140.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:57:50 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 18:58:34 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:00:27 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.163.183] has joined #lisp 19:00:33 LoL 19:03:55 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 19:04:55 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.163.183] has left #lisp 19:07:14 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-zyznvkqbezizpctu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:07:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.103.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:09:22 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:40 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-170-114-39.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:09:43 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:21 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wveioytyqmjqhhui] has joined #lisp 19:11:36 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 19:11:53 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-49-14-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:38 morning 19:12:48 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 19:13:48 Hello slyrus. 19:14:40 hey nyef. I'm going to migrate your clx branch over the sharplispers repo now. 19:14:56 The glx-fixes branch, I hope? 19:15:08 Cool. 19:16:25 yes, assuming I can find it :) 19:16:50 ah, there it is 19:16:54 It's in a public git repository in my account on clnet... 19:17:57 Most recent commit should be something about double-floats. 19:19:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:19:57 yup 19:20:19 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:47 sbrk-song-from-threads-inc-limited.....lol 19:24:02 -!- X-Scale` [email@89.180.160.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:11 nikodem__ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:24:11 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:20 -!- nikodem__ [~Nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:35 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:24:42 didn't know pooh-pooh was a noun..... 19:24:43 lol 19:24:46 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 19:24:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:24:54 is there a lisp equivalent of a multi-map ? 19:25:06 a bag of many to many relationships? 19:25:07 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:28 I speak, and the ideas become clearer. and then I recluse myself. 19:25:30 thank you all =) 19:25:38 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 19:27:05 Shaftoe: Perhaps you should get a cardboard consultant? 19:27:54 nyef: a chat bot would also do it, but yes, I am going to look into it! 19:29:15 emacs has a counselor :P 19:29:40 lol 19:29:53 hah. I should check him out 19:29:58 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.48.251] has joined #lisp 19:30:39 nice tank-drums...... 19:30:41 hmm, odd bug 19:31:01 even aliens.... 19:31:03 lol 19:32:19 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:33:41 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:35:48 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:49 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1787.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:39:45 H4ns [5b3d5159@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.81.89] has joined #lisp 19:39:45 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:18 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 19:43:29 pnq [~nick@ACA20C45.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:44:51 paul0 [~user@177.16.108.241] has joined #lisp 19:45:01 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:45:30 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 19:47:33 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:48:15 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:48:50 benny [~benny@i577A115F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:40 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 19:54:36 I don't remember de function that gets a list, and uses a function using a number and its successor 19:55:19 like (mapsomething #'(lambda (x y) (+ x y)) '(1 2 3 4)), would return 10 19:55:32 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20C45.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:55:32 nyef: can you take a look at https://github.com/sharplispers/clx/tree/glx-fixes at some point? 19:55:32 mapcar? 19:56:00 paul0: these are all the map* functions: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 19:59:36 slyrus: Nothing immediately leaps out as wrong. 19:59:52 good! 20:00:40 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:01:23 oh, I was looking for apply 20:01:36 (apply #'+ '(1 2 3 4)) => 10 20:02:14 -!- iwillig [~ivan@pool-71-161-154-140.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:02:40 faw months without programming in CL, and I'm getting confused by maps and apply 20:02:52 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.173] has joined #lisp 20:02:53 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:59 few 20:03:34 paul0: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 20:05:46 thanks stratobacker, that's what I was looking for 20:13:51 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:20:06 -!- kruft [~user@c-24-1-176-247.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:55 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:10 superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:20 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 20:35:04 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.109] has joined #lisp 20:35:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:35:36 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-79.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:55 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-79.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:35 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:37:36 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:42 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:42 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:05 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 20:39:11 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-153-71.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:40:05 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-79.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:40:21 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-79.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:41:49 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:24 -!- H4ns [5b3d5159@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.81.89] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:44:27 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:46:33 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:48 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:55 -!- lutok [~luckystok@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:46 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-79.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:17 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:38 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-79.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:30 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:51:04 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:15 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:52:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:32 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 20:54:20 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-148-238.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:54:35 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:56:08 waltwhite [~waltwhite@ABordeaux-256-1-94-32.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:56:21 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@ABordeaux-256-1-94-32.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:57 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:00 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:02:59 CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 21:04:08 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-d9bdcbe9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:05:33 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:48 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:01 sacho_ [~sacho@90-154-150-53.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 21:07:02 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:35 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:39 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 21:07:48 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 21:07:53 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:55 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:07:59 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 21:08:37 -!- paul0 [~user@177.16.108.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:37 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:05 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 21:12:53 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-35.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:16 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:15:20 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:16:20 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:17 CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 21:20:09 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-28-188-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:20:55 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 21:21:18 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 21:22:14 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-190.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:57 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:28 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:37 superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:04 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.109] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 21:29:18 sellout- [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:06 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:45 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.48.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:33:13 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:56 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.48.251] has joined #lisp 21:34:41 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:08 CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 21:36:10 -!- CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:22 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.109] has joined #lisp 21:37:23 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:45 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 21:40:04 paul0 [~user@177.16.108.241] has joined #lisp 21:40:45 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:41:13 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:01 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:01 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:43:01 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 21:43:49 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-170-114-39.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:45:21 Cloud__ [~cbp@187.193.246.90] has joined #lisp 21:45:32 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@184.52.91.205] has joined #lisp 21:46:40 -!- Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.195.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:46:49 entrix [~entrix@93-80-219-185.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:47:25 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:05 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.109] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 21:49:32 -!- entrix [~entrix@93-80-219-185.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:16 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@184.52.91.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:52 -!- paul0 [~user@177.16.108.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:17 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:56:20 CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 21:56:56 -!- xristos [~x@research.suspicious.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 21:58:37 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:53 acml [~user@92.44.144.149] has joined #lisp 22:01:52 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:01:54 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:03:49 Pterygota [~me@cpe-76-188-7-196.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:23 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.109] has joined #lisp 22:08:13 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0D09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:08:59 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 22:09:23 tfb [~tfb@92.40.117.110.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:14:47 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:16:08 -!- osa1__ [~sinan@88.242.74.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:42 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-148-238.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:52 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:18:42 -!- redline6561_nop is now known as redline6561 22:24:13 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.117.110.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:24:35 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:25 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:43 superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:29 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:28:09 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:25 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-146-228.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:30:28 izz_ [joel@montezuma.acc.umu.se] has joined #lisp 22:31:11 *Xach* feels the excitement 22:31:32 Xach: that's great! why? 22:32:19 things are bubbling, don't you sense it? 22:32:19 Polishing old stuff up to modern standards 22:32:55 did you take a tour of the ai repo, or is this something else? 22:33:25 hey guys, I'm about to start on SICP, and thinking about ordering land of lisp also, but I'm a little confused about the different dialects and development environments 22:33:41 is it possible to use racket for both common lisp and scheme? 22:34:08 no 22:34:39 nikodemus: almost all my own crud 22:35:15 izz_: it can help to just think of them as different languages with some ideas that are widely applicable (but which are widely applicable to non-lisp-ish languages) 22:35:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:23 sicp is a great book, though. i still maintain that i learned most of what i know of programming from it 22:35:45 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 22:36:13 the rest is marginalia. lots of it, but still... 22:36:25 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:18 I found a version of racket which is supposed to be 100% compatible with SICP, but what's a good option for common lisp environment in os x? 22:37:40 izz_: Clozure Common Lisp, and SBCL 22:37:50 sbcl or clozure, using emacs and slime as the environment 22:38:25 superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:58 ok. no love the vim users? :( 22:39:33 izz_: vim users sometimes use slimv, i think. 22:39:49 most learn Emacs, though 22:39:51 :) 22:40:20 there's slimv, but i've no idea how polished it is or how ful featured it is compared to slime 22:40:33 what about this, from the clozure page: "An IDE on the Mac OS X, fully integrated with the Macintosh window system and User Interface standards." 22:40:40 listed as feature 22:40:50 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:40:55 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:41:06 izz_: give it a try 22:41:09 izz_: well, it includes one. And a way to easily interface with Cocoa and other Objective-C code 22:41:33 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 22:42:46 ok thanks guys, I'll try some of these options 22:43:03 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:16 and glad to hear someone thinks sicp is a great book, I hope it will be worthwhile 22:46:47 i couldn't maintain the info for sicp, i lost it somehow.... 22:51:13 lutok [~luckystok@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:31 -!- Cloud__ [~cbp@187.193.246.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:53:19 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:58:57 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:18 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:59 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:08:52 anyone seen beach recently? 23:08:55 timack [~timack@hlfx62-1-44.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:08:58 i saw him at eclm 23:09:23 I haven't seen him here for a while, but then again I haven't been around too much 23:10:31 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:49 hmm... is clim-gtkairo broken on darwin/x86-64? 23:11:20 -!- Pterygota [~me@cpe-76-188-7-196.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:11:36 never tried the cairo backend 23:12:05 I get: Process inferior-lisp trace/BPT trap: 5 23:12:38 what's the preferred backend for getting a font rendering system that looks like it was designed after 1983? 23:12:38 hmm apparently now you need a library called `libcheck' in order to compile `libfixposix' (in order to work with `iolib')? 23:15:01 there's iirc an option that get pretty fonts for the clx backend 23:15:31 look for stuff that depends on cl-vectots 23:16:05 cl-vectors, even. in the .asd, would be my first guess 23:16:12 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:24 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:16:37 ah, mcclim-freetype.asd and mcclim-native-ttf.asd 23:16:46 and mcclim-truetype.asd 23:17:27 the thing with the rendering path in lisp should be the pretty one 23:18:12 adeht: yes 23:18:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:39 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 23:18:39 fe[nl]ix: so where can I find it? 23:19:03 in your distro 23:19:22 hi, do anybody have tried sb-dxf library? 23:19:29 fe[nl]ix: I use archlinux.. didn't see any libcheck 23:19:45 nialo- [~nialo@c-24-128-99-161.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:30 -!- nialo- [~nialo@c-24-128-99-161.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:41 nialo- [~nialo@c-24-128-99-161.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:55 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:57 adeht: check.sf.net 23:21:55 chp [~chp@dyn-carl-202-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:22:15 fe[nl]ix: thanks.. perhaps it'd be a good idea to make it an optional dependency 23:22:28 beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-99-49-14-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:35 ok, that's a bit better. thanks nikodemus 23:22:39 -!- nialo- [~nialo@c-24-128-99-161.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:50 nialo- [~nialo@c-24-128-99-161.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:52 adeht: the test suite is not optional 23:23:06 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #lisp 23:24:29 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.109] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 23:24:42 beslyrus, i have a modest proposal re. clx 23:25:03 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:06 -!- nialo- [~nialo@c-24-128-99-161.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:07 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-148-167-49.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:32 shoot 23:25:54 two branches. one called classic, mostly in deep freeze and uberconservative maintenance mode 23:26:26 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:26:38 the other (master, modern, whatever) strips all support for non-ansi stuff 23:28:18 because build options that aren't regularly tested will break, and broken build options (or rather exotic platforms in this case) are worth less than nothing 23:29:15 i'm not advocating this as a wholesale change, mind. but as a longer term maintenance stance 23:29:20 sound good to me 23:31:33 I tried using portable clx on both allegro and clisp and no dice 23:31:39 Of course, they have their own bundled CLXs 23:31:56 made me wonder about a shim to load either portable or bundled depending on circumstances... 23:32:17 maybe antifuchs will investigate the difference between allegro's and portable-clx 23:32:17 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:30 Pterygota [~me@cpe-76-188-7-196.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:34 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-216-236.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:37 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 23:32:39 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.106.238] has joined #lisp 23:32:51 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.109] has joined #lisp 23:32:54 has anyone tried using hunchentoot on a router? I'm thinking of trying it to run an apartment-wide webpage :) 23:33:20 quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.28.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:36:36 fisxoj: yes! though not a real hardware router. 23:36:43 just a pentium-ish with two NICs 23:37:11 neat! I got a slightly nice buffalo router with this plan at the back of my head 23:37:38 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:37:43 I've been working through learning who, hunchentoot, ps, css and now I'm gonna need some clsql to store things. Sort of learning as I go. 23:37:52 glad to hear it's probably doable, though 23:38:03 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.109] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 23:40:42 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:40:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-154-188.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:48:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:49:56 -!- Pterygota [~me@cpe-76-188-7-196.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:50:10 snearch [~snearch@e178061013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:50:53 drks [~drks@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 23:51:04 hello. do all the reader macros have to start with #? 23:51:14 no 23:51:26 drks: ( is a reader macro 23:51:36 ' too 23:51:40 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-94.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:44 oh I see. so I can use any character? is there any convention I should follow? 23:51:58 besides avoiding ones used by the language obviously 23:52:21 don't munge the global readtable is the important one 23:52:21 drks: there's a table, let me find it 23:52:32 copy it, and theb munge the copy 23:52:47 http://l1sp.org/cl/2.4 23:52:50 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:52 not quite what i had in mind 23:53:46 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:53:53 as a practical example, I want to copy clojure's #(+ 2 %) (which expands to (lambda (x) (+ 2 x)), would #f be appropriate name? #f(+ 2 %) 23:54:15 maybe just f? 23:54:22 drks: There #L in dwim.hu. 23:54:26 drks: Doing the same thing. 23:54:37 ah I see :) 23:55:13 ok so why did they use #L and not just L? 23:55:28 if one can use any character 23:55:36 so that you can use L. 23:55:46 Except it doesn't use %, but !1, !2 for nth argument. 23:55:47 as a variable name etc? 23:55:50 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #lisp 23:56:04 for general use adding readmacros to alphabetic characters is frowned upon 23:56:06 antoszka that's fine 23:56:40 but there's at least one pretty neat one that adds them to numbers, to get support for units 23:56:42 nikodemus but this seems like a good case for it. (l + 2 %) would look ugly compared to #l(+ 2 %) imo 23:57:25 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-155-94.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:28 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:35 drks, that's #l, not l 23:57:42 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:52 sorry I misread 23:58:06 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-94.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:06 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 23:58:38 pferor` [~user@119.Red-2-137-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:50 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:59:13 beslyrus: https://github.com/franzinc/clx is public! 23:59:17 you can investigate yourself ((: