00:00:47 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:00:59 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 00:01:23 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has quit [Quit: gotta go, my dad is going to arrive and stuff] 00:04:17 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:22 How can I map car a function with options? 00:06:05 Quaydon: use a lambda function 00:06:30 map a lambda that calls that function with the right options. or an flet or a labels function 00:07:02 function composition in other words ;p 00:07:32 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:08:01 Quaydon: example, (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (log x 2)) list) 00:09:49 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:12:22 Iceland_jack, I have been looking for easy to compile every file in a directory. So this is what I have so far (mapcar #'compile-file (mapcar #'(lambda (s) (concatenate 'string s ".lisp")) files)) 00:12:34 files is a list of strings 00:13:16 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:46 <3 curry rcurry compose 00:14:45 It works but I need it to ouptput the compiled files in to a different directory 00:15:08 Quaydon: can't you configure ASDF to do that? 00:15:30 loke, Im new what is ASDF? 00:15:38 Quaydon: (directory (merge-pathnames "*lisp" "~")) 00:15:56  outputs all files that end in "lisp" in your home directory 00:16:12 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:37 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:43 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:11 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 00:18:49 Quaydon: it's the Lisp package definition tool. I have to go to the office now, I'm late already, so I don't have time to explain further. But check the web page: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ 00:19:13 loke, ah documentation thank you 00:19:35 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 00:19:37 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:19:41 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:19:53 ASDF is for defining systems. A system specifies how to build and load Lisp code. 00:20:06 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:40 http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html shows how I use ASDF these days, approximately. 00:21:41 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:23:09 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 00:23:21 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:23:52 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:53 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:25:56 Paul Graham's On Lisp mentions that arguments are evaluated left-to-right in Common Lisp 00:26:15 is this a part of the standard and does this apply to (most) lisp dialects? 00:26:53 CL guarantees left-to-right argument evaluation. Scheme, for instance, does not. 00:27:24 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:27:25 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:27:42 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:27:54 rme: Ok, that's good to know. So I can always be 100% sure that (concatenate 'string (print "One.") (print "Two.")) prints "One." first 00:29:17 -!- [6502] [5e24e649@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.230.73] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:30:02 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 00:31:01 -!- venk is now known as vpit3833 00:31:20 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:32:42 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:34:14 waveman [~tim@124-170-16-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:34:27 ruediger [~quassel@ptmx.org] has joined #lisp 00:34:47 -!- ruediger [~quassel@ptmx.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:02 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:36:47 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:36:51 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 00:37:24 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 00:38:49 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40:01 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:41:24 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 00:41:36 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@24.106.207.82] has joined #lisp 00:45:03 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:46:45 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-88-8.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:06 has anyone here used cl-mechanize? if so, what are your thoughts on it. 00:51:50 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:56 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:15 I used the perl version a couple years ago breifly and it wasn't that bad 00:54:29 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.24] has joined #lisp 00:55:19 huh, looks like it's using drakma and cxml-stp 00:55:26 I haven't used it, but it seems sane 00:55:44 not very complete though, it seems 00:56:15 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:56:22 dnolen_ [~davidnole@p72-0-226-114-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:07 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 00:58:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-88-8.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:40 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 00:58:53 -!- dmiles_a2k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:56 Hmm ill have to take it for a spin this weekend and see how it compares to the perl version 01:01:16 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AFA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:02:13 check out the README, it says it's highly incomplete and shouldn't be used as anything other than a toy 01:02:22 looking at the sources, it looks like it implements only history 01:02:24 not much else 01:03:36 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:30 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping 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02:09:18 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 02:10:36 What is the proper way to handle the following style warnings? http://paste.lisp.org/+2P8A 02:11:18 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:12:15 howeyc: put (declare (ignore secs hour minute)) as the first form within multiple-value-bind. 02:12:41 howeyc: sorry, after DECODE-UNIVERSAL-TIME 02:13:10 howeyc: The first form of the body of M-V-B 02:14:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:06 mcox: awesome, thanks. 02:22:13 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:08 -!- ruediger_ [~ruediger@93-82-2-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:49 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:20 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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joined #lisp 03:13:47 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:15:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dnkgmhsaafieqaid] has joined #lisp 03:17:57 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:22:38 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:23:01 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:30:21 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:44 qsun` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:33:24 -!- qsun [~qsun@66.220.3.138] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:35:18 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:08 -!- Em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:40:01 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:14 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@p72-0-226-114-static.acedsl.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:45:56 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:35 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:01 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 03:52:53 I was thinking of writing some macros that would auto-ignore any variable starting with "ignore" eg (m-v-b (a b ignore1) (xxx) ...( => (multiple-value-bind (a b ignore1) (xxx) (declare (ignore ignore1)) ...) it happens so often. 03:53:32 waveman: you don't need to bind all the values a function returns with mvb 03:53:47 just omit trailing ones 03:54:22 I was thinking of writing some macros that would auto-ignore any variable starting with "ignore" eg (m-v-b (a b ignore1 d) (xxx) ...( => (multiple-value-bind (a b ignore1d) (xxx) (declare (ignore ignore1)) ...) it happens so often. 03:54:27 You 03:54:40 Em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:54:51 You're right with trailing vars just leave them off, but ... 03:55:39 Also sometimes I want to put asserts within a sequence of lets (let ((a (whatever)) (ignore1 (assert (numberp a)) ...) 03:57:15 put it inside the let body. 03:59:26 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:00:01 what if you want to ignore leading variables, or variables in the middle? must explicitly use ignore form to avoid warnings? 04:00:33 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:07 lemoinem [~swoog@200-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:27 There's also nth-value. 04:01:49 if you frequently need a random scattering of values from a function that returns multiple, it's probably a design problem. 04:03:28 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:50 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:04:56 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:04:59 -!- el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8F43D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:07:04 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8C4A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:08:14 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:04 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:11:13 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:36 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 04:20:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:35:11 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:36:12 is there anything that needs to be done to get the new asdf-install to work? I updated my sbcl to .53 and now asdf-install seems not to fetch dependencies properly... it just stops 04:36:34 rbancroft: does it error? 04:36:42 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:37:07 also, "new" asdf-install? i don't think it's changed recently. 04:37:13 Xach: it just says: Component not found 04:37:29 rbancroft: In response to what? 04:37:44 I just noticed in the .52 release notes, asdf was updated... 04:38:20 chenbing` [~user@60.186.105.91] has joined #lisp 04:38:29 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 04:39:09 if I try to asdf-install cffi, for example, it says cffi-tests not found 04:39:42 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40:02 I may have lost startup file along the way 04:40:13 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:40:25 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.5.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:38 syamajala [~syamajala@2002:a027:c9eb:a:fc7d:2230:c0ff:4184] has joined #lisp 04:42:05 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890250.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:09 ok, user error... my central-registry is nil. sorry about that 04:42:12 Is there any way to define translators from arbitrary Lisp values (e.g. a list) to CFFI structs? 04:42:44 rbancroft: you should consider using quicklisp instead of asdf-install 04:42:49 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890250.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:42:55 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:42:55 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:42:55 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 04:43:53 04:47:04 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.173.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:47:42 ok Ralith, looking into it. thanks 04:48:26 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:50:24 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890250.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:08 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890250.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:51:11 quicklisp is pretty rad 04:51:52 Would it be safe to use boehm's GC to manage foreign memory in a SBCL process? 04:54:19 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.172.69] has joined #lisp 04:55:04 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-121.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:00:14 benny [~benny@i577A8DFD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:00:20 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-121.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:01:05 -!- chenbing` [~user@60.186.105.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:01:29 wolfpython [~walter@58.212.238.82] has joined #lisp 05:02:46 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:03:26 nostoi [~nostoi@73.Red-83-33-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:12 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890250.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:08:28 Ralith: one common situation is the decode-universal-date where I am only interested in the date parts not the time. It is also quite a slow function. My current app spends 30% of the time in that function. 05:08:42 waveman: what is your app? 05:10:16 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 05:12:08 SBCL's implementation of it looks as efficient as can be expected 05:13:09 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@2002:a027:c9eb:a:fc7d:2230:c0ff:4184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:48 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:17:09 -!- hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 05:18:13 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.253] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:22:24 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:22:57 I am interested in getting some code ready to be quicklisp-ized. What do I have to do to make that happen? 05:23:37 chenbing [~user@115.205.0.36] has joined #lisp 05:23:49 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 05:24:00 make it stable and have users, I imagine 05:24:05 you'd have to ask Xach though 05:25:55 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:26:40 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 05:27:57 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:28:38 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:39 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:32:21 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:17 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@73.Red-83-33-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:37:53 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:39:55 -!- PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:40:06 Bahman [~user@2.144.214.67] has joined #lisp 05:40:11 Hi all! 05:41:09 hi 05:41:47 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:44:05 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 05:44:28 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 05:47:28 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.112.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:49:07 I am trying to define a new class (inheriting from another) and a method based on the new class at run time, the class is created and I can use it in make-instance but the method for the created class is not found when I try to use it...is there a trick to get the method defined correctly? I see postmodern does method creation in finalize-inheritance :after for the meta class but that method never fires in my code.. 05:52:45 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:53:42 Pinging Xach 05:54:28 marsell [~marsell@101.116.58.41] has joined #lisp 05:58:44 -!- Bahman [~user@2.144.214.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:58 H4ns [57bd7fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.127.163] has joined #lisp 06:00:25 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has left #lisp 06:03:50 Bahman [~user@2.144.214.67] has joined #lisp 06:13:00 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: time to go..] 06:16:07 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 06:23:45 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:24:00 wvoq [~user@bio-86-120.pooled.umbc.edu] has joined #lisp 06:25:22 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 06:30:13 -!- Bahman [~user@2.144.214.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.105.255] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:30:56 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.105.255] has joined #lisp 06:33:04 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:33:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:34:14 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:40:30 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 06:40:38 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:59 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 06:45:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:45:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:20 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 06:48:12 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 06:49:30 -!- Em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:50:13 -!- marsell [~marsell@101.116.58.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:38 Em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 07:01:49 -!- Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:04:05 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:06:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:08:18 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 07:10:41 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:48 How do I re-evaluate the init clause of a defvar in slime? 07:16:06 M-x slime-re-evaluate-defvar 07:16:44 that was C-h a defvar RET - thanks for suggesting that there should be a slime function to do it :) 07:18:01 -!- wolfpython [~walter@58.212.238.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:23 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:25:07 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-59-179.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:17 iirc, C-M-x does it too 07:26:50 oh, that's nice! 07:26:55 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:58 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.112.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:29:50 thanks 07:32:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.3.243] has joined #lisp 07:32:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.3.243] has quit [Changing host] 07:32:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:33:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:34:28 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:34:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:28 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.112.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:35:50 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:37:05 -!- tmp___ [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Quit: > /dev/null 2>&1] 07:38:21 good morning 07:39:51 morning mvilleneuve 07:41:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:51:55 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:54:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:58:19 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:59:25 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:01:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.34.108] has joined #lisp 08:01:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.34.108] has quit [Changing host] 08:01:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:01:12 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:51 (mapcan #'+ '( 1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) ;=> 9 it's totally diffent with mapcar... 08:06:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:07:14 chenbing: mapcan expects to get lists returned .. so you'd need (mapcan (lambda (a b) (list (+ a b))) '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) 08:08:05 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:08:57 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-97-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:57 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-97-221.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:08:57 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:10:52 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 08:11:25 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:29 -!- insomniaSalt 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[~oudeis@92.40.253.112.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:32:55 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:04 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:54 -!- qsun` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:35:49 -!- H4ns [57bd7fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.127.163] has quit [Quit: relocate] 09:36:58 Is there any open source expert system toolkit ? 09:38:17 -!- Guest7490 is now known as `micro 09:38:49 Pip: http://www.google.com/search?q=open+source+expert+system+toolkit ? 09:40:15 -!- Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-49-121.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:49:07 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.112.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:50:33 gmlk [~gmlk@2001:888:10f4:0:94c4:34be:322e:2cc6] has joined #lisp 09:53:23 Harag [~phil@41.56.22.234] has joined #lisp 09:54:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-31-4.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:57:53 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:59:18 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:59:28 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:59:33 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 10:00:53 -!- gmlk [~gmlk@2001:888:10f4:0:94c4:34be:322e:2cc6] has quit [Quit: Left] 10:01:32 anybody have experience in LFE lisp faloured erlang?is it mature to application? 10:04:26 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:05:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.112.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:07:08 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mbvfljpvravhtysw] has joined #lisp 10:08:47 daniel_ [~daniel@p50829885.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:11:33 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:11:39 -!- daniel___ 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joined #lisp 10:42:16 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:44:43 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:49:04 as lisppaste is not here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126014 10:49:39 it's a possible bug in sbcl, i don't know what to do with it. it doesn't bother me all that much, but if it really is one, it should likely be reported. 10:49:49 yeah, maybe not here, though :) 10:50:04 i guess that the stepper does not like tail call elimination. 10:50:07 could be, but i'm not sure if i'm doing something else wrong, so i thought i'd better ask first :) 10:50:22 but i'm just guessing, really. did you try to compile it with optimize debug? 10:50:45 no, i haven't done anything special with it yet, i wanted to check if it was something known or dull first :) 10:50:54 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:17 madnificent: could it be caused by not high enough debug setting? 10:51:22 madnificent: do you define it in REPL, or in a separate buffer? 10:51:29 optimize debug 3 didn't change anything either 10:51:32 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 10:51:33 akovalenko: repl 10:51:50 *akovalenko* seems to recall something like this for repl-defined functions. Never had enough time to investigate or report, though. 10:52:13 akovalenko: ah, i'll see if placing it in a buffer will fix it, will try later :) 10:52:16 sigh, b;; this is a trivial, unimportant function 10:52:16 (defun fib (nr &optional (a 1) (b 1)) 10:52:17 (if (= nr 0) 10:52:17 (+ a b) 10:52:21 (fib (1- nr) b (+ a b)))) 10:52:25 ;; but a step form makes it 10:52:25 (step (fib 5)) 10:52:28 ;; angry! in *Messages* i find: 10:52:31 what the hell?! sorry 10:52:38 madnificent: wrong window! 10:52:55 drake01__ [~drake01@115.246.214.30] has joined #lisp 10:53:04 jdz: wrong key combo, over ssh... i don't know what happened to be honoust, but it's the second time it occurs 10:53:09 -!- drake01__ [~drake01@115.246.214.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:13 madnificent: and it seems to work in raw, non-slime REPL 10:53:57 regardless, i'll try to compile from a buffer later. and i'll try to figure out what an acceptable bug report would be. it's not something that's blocking me 10:55:03 killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 10:55:33 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:55:36 so I think it's caused by SLIME using SBCL introspection interface (well, the message itself comes from SBCL, but when SBCL is "fixed" to give more sensible diagnostics, SLIME/SWANK is likely to need its own fix) 10:55:42 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:59:19 with a bunch of semi-private SBCL interfaces used by SWANK, I'm not at all sure if there's a problem in SBCL at all. 11:02:07 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:02:30 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:02:59 -!- df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:42 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 11:06:47 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-31-4.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:08:20 -!- Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09:24 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 11:09:28 pjb: ping 11:11:46 t 11:13:17 have you read "Principes d'implantation de Scheme et Lisp" ? 11:13:26 is it much different from "Les langages Lisp" ? 11:14:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:03 I didn't notice a lot of difference between the two editions. 11:16:11 df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 11:16:23 But then, I compare my memories of the English translation of the first edition with my 2nd edition French copy... 11:16:41 the second edition, at Paracamplus, is cheaper than any copy of the first edition I've found on the web 11:20:37 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:20:40 Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #lisp 11:21:32 -!- rgrau` [~user@88.87.210.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:48 wvoq` [~user@bio-86-120.pooled.umbc.edu] has joined #lisp 11:23:21 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.114] has joined #lisp 11:23:48 -!- wvoq [~user@bio-86-120.pooled.umbc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:27:07 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 11:29:46 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:01 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:30:13 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:29 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-98-217-184-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:31:41 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:17 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dnkgmhsaafieqaid] has left #lisp 11:34:36 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 11:41:51 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.88.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:42:45 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:43:08 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-156-30.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:47:42 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:48:11 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-156-30.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:24 akovalenko: oh, that'd change the issue a tad, I think 11:48:38 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51:23 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:52:10 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52:34 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:34 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:52:34 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 11:53:32 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-244-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:56:07 easyE [fqf4rv6wpf@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:45 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:59:52 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-59-179.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:01:25 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.88.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:04:53 hello 12:08:25 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:22 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:59 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:30 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.254.88.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - 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Can you suggest something? 13:55:53 Something portable, that is. 13:56:31 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:58:59 Xach: a big lookup table? 13:59:50 I wonder if babel or flexi-streams has something. 14:00:03 perhaps generated by calling ucs-to-sjis many times ... 14:01:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.56.116] has joined #lisp 14:01:28 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:20 Xach: babel::ucs-to-cp932 14:02:23 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:02:27 which could be exported 14:02:37 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 14:03:19 fe[nl]ix: I have no function by that name when I load babel. Do I need to load something else? 14:03:33 oh, sorry 14:03:39 the package is babel-encodings 14:03:45 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-156-30.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:04:53 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:05 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:34 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-156-30.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:55 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.56.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:07:16 Thanks. 14:07:52 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 14:09:41 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:10:09 Xach: would (babel:translate-ucs-code-point code-point :sjis) be ok ? 14:11:04 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:46 That seems ok. 14:13:16 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:26 Hee hee! Allegro CL being more pedantic than SBCL caught a bug! 14:13:45 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]] 14:13:59 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 14:15:24 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:17:09 -!- nonduality [~alex@t193-015.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:18:04 (compile nil '(lambda (bits) (declare (type number bits)) (dotimes (i bits) (print i)))) 14:18:36 Perhaps "pedantic" isn't the right word, but it lands in the debugger for that form, anyway. 14:18:43 not too helpful. How do you dotimes #c(0 30)? 14:19:00 hmm 14:19:04 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:06 *Xach* was misreading all along 14:19:56 I guess that looks more like an allegro bug now. 14:20:02 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:20:02 And a brain bug for me! 14:20:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:21:05 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-edkbnwoywltzsyyg] has joined #lisp 14:21:15 *Xach* just doesn't know any more 14:21:33 zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-70-100-22.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:58 Well it shouldn't be essentially worse than (compile nil '(lambda (bits) (dotimes (i bits) (print i)))) 14:22:44 (progn (print "Foo") (dotimes (i #C(0 1)) (dotimes (j #C(0 1)) (print "Foo")))) => ;; should print nothing 14:23:00 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:23:33 I think it should produce a program-error or a type-error. 14:23:38 "dotimes evaluates count-form, which should produce an integer. ". 14:23:58 after having printed "Foo". 14:25:08 for extended dotimes with complex support, two nested dotimes with #C(0 1) print "Foo" -1 times. Together with preceding "Foo", it's 0 times. 14:27:15 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:00 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:29:40 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:18 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-cjntltlyqenoovdu] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 14:31:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:32:51 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:33:00 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890206.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:33:01 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:45 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:09 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:37:57 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:22 -!- mensch [~mensch@158.121.107.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:40:08 akovalenko: that sound like a very complex behaviour 14:42:13 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:39 -!- markskil1eck [~chris@host86-136-237-95.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:50 *Xach* loves the new github feed 14:43:18 https://github.com/onixie/sb-mgraph looks neat 14:44:14 Xach: you already tried it? 14:44:32 oh, it uses clim 14:44:46 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:58 i have not yet tried it 14:45:24 wow, that deserves a prize :D 14:46:07 fe[nl]ix: for perseverance in the face of the enemy? ;) 14:46:56 more or less :D 14:46:59 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-156-30.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:47:04 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: time to go..] 14:47:25 This webscraper project looks interesting too 14:47:59 just a toybox without aim or design! 14:48:09 it doesn't have to stay that way, though 14:50:49 nonduality [~alex@t197-089.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:50:58 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has left #lisp 14:51:05 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:13 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 14:51:15 is there a particularly more efficient way to blit array to array besides element-by-element? 14:51:27 replace 14:52:01 (map-into dst-array #'identity src-array) 14:52:13 + temporary displaced array(s) if dst or src is not 1D 14:52:14 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:21 that doesn't support 2-3 dimensional arrays though does it? 14:52:28 hrm 14:52:39 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:50 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:54 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 nifty 14:58:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.105.255] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:54 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.105.255] has joined #lisp 15:05:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-edkbnwoywltzsyyg] has left #lisp 15:05:49 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:30 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:07:48 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 15:07:48 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:03 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:09:20 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:10:37 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:43 oudeis [~oudeis@bhaji-mythic.collabora.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:12:33 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 15:12:34 -!- tsuru`` is now known as tsuru` 15:14:18 douw [douw@14.104.40.72] has joined #lisp 15:15:28 -!- douw [douw@14.104.40.72] has quit [Client Quit] 15:15:47 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B198.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:43 -!- nonduality [~alex@t197-089.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:17:54 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:17 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 15:23:16 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:26 G'morning all. 15:23:37 heya, nyef 15:23:42 Hi nyef 15:24:11 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:26:36 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.0.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:06 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-103-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:31:25 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:32:04 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.101] has joined #lisp 15:33:25 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:33 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bhaji-mythic.collabora.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:38:44 sellout- [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:04 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ysyhsrrdcjvtfbls] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:56 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 15:46:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-160.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:13 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:47:44 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-160.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:48:23 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 15:48:35 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:50:01 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:50:27 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:15 quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:01 -!- quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 15:56:42 quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:46 rpg_ [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:02:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:04:55 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111116091359]] 16:05:14 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:05:39 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:06:14 Can anyone suggest a way to "hook" a function, almost like a :before method for a given method, just for functions (and is reversible) 16:06:33 Qworkescence: check your implementation's "advise" facility 16:06:45 (let ((old (symbol-function 'f))) (setf (symbol-function 'f) (lambda (...) (do-something) (funcall old ...)))) 16:06:54 Qworkescence: or sometimes even TRACE (with implementation extensions) is enough 16:07:07 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:07:13 Qworkescence: clozure cl's is here: http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter4.3.html 16:07:21 pjb, that's what I suspected, except OLD would be saved somewhere 16:08:42 wvoq`` [~user@bio-86-120.pooled.UMBC.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:09:08 What's the Lisp etymology if "advise"? I have seen it in other implementations. 16:09:39 In emacs lisp it's defadvice 16:10:20 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C86D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:24 -!- wvoq` [~user@bio-86-120.pooled.umbc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:11:47 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C86D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:12:57 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:11 -!- orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:14:21 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C86D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:29 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:17:36 -!- quek [~read_eval@router1.gpy1.ms246.net] has left #lisp 16:20:30 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:23:00 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.105.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:36 -!- anaumov 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[5b3d40d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.64.216] has joined #lisp 17:07:21 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-66-56.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-66-56.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:08:19 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:09:52 rtoyg [chatzilla@nat/google/x-wlptnuyfcsgosbox] has joined #lisp 17:09:55 Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:12 blumbri [1000@204.152.219.51] has joined #lisp 17:12:28 sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 17:14:47 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-185-28.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:55 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 17:21:36 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:22:07 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-agqngksnkbyxkefi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:36 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 17:23:53 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:26:56 So, why there are more people in #lisp than in ##lisp? 17:28:50 pferor: Because #lisp is the place where people interested in Common Lisp discuss Common Lisp, and ##lisp is not? 17:29:19 #lisp has been around for a loong time (: 17:29:34 I see. Thanks. 17:30:44 -!- alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:07 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.63.155] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 17:33:45 The allegro bug was a bug and has been patched for a year. I now have allegro patch shame. 17:34:24 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.86.208] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.86.208] has quit [Changing host] 17:34:24 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 17:34:28 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-cjntltlyqenoovdu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:34:44 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 17:34:56 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Client Quit] 17:36:53 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 17:37:26 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:51 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:38:43 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:47 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:06 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:16 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg_] 17:43:29 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:45:21 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:39 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@200-170-114-39.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:45:46 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:46:45 clynbech [~clynbech@0133300649.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 17:48:03 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.130.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:49:58 -!- H4ns [5b3d40d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.64.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51:47 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 17:52:11 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:35 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:55:08 Morning. 17:56:32 morning 17:57:10 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-xyransnsflwyknmb] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:57:36 -!- clynbech [~clynbech@0133300649.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:57:54 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-205-158.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:08 evening 17:58:15 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 17:58:44 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:18 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:15 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:03:16 clynbech [~clynbech@0133300649.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 18:04:06 -!- Harag [~phil@41.56.22.234] has left #lisp 18:05:20 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-jmwcvbwrxyffiyum] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 H4ns [5b3d40d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.64.216] has joined #lisp 18:06:41 mamaleone [~mamaleone@dyndsl-085-016-063-230.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:27 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:58 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@200-170-114-39.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:13:20 -!- clynbech [~clynbech@0133300649.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:14:40 snowmanZOMG [~user@c-98-253-56-51.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:41 -!- X-Scale` [email@89.180.156.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:59 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:31 -!- snowmanZOMG [~user@c-98-253-56-51.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:16:43 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:17:38 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 18:19:14 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:27 Hi lispers, I'm considering starting a evening group for teenagers, covering some basic computer programming and would value a little input on language choice 18:19:52 My choices are Python, Scheme or CL 18:19:56 Guthur: Our totally unbiased opinion is that you should use Common Lisp 18:20:15 I say use python. either one. 18:20:21 dlowe: hehe I was expecting bias opinions somewhat 18:20:32 Guthur: just the facts here 18:20:54 python was actually my first thought 18:21:01 honestly, I'd say scheme 18:21:06 but I'm always drawn to Lisp when I can 18:21:27 unless you have specific problems in mind that need python interfaces 18:21:30 dlowe have you used DrScheme 18:21:45 the only decent dev env for CL i know is Emacs 18:21:46 Guthur: when you say "my choices", what do you mean? 18:21:53 Guthur: are you restricted to those by some external force? 18:21:54 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.22.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:22:05 and think emacs might be a step too far 18:22:24 Guthur: for CL, there's the lispworks IDE 18:22:28 Xach: no, sorry I probably should have said 'preference' 18:22:43 DrScheme is a pretty nice learning env. 18:22:54 oh, yeah, I totally never thought of LW 18:23:09 Careful not to wake the r*cket kibo 18:23:19 go with racket 18:23:21 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:23:23 *Xach* slaps forehead 18:23:28 if you want easy 18:23:30 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 18:23:31 lol 18:23:33 lol 18:23:35 Guthur: do you want to teach serious programming or let them have fun writing games? 18:24:12 eMBee: to be honest I don't subscribe to the 'games aren't real programming' 18:24:33 it's only subject matter and gives them something to relate to 18:24:44 Guther: teach the one you know best 18:25:08 that would be CL 18:25:28 ok then 18:25:29 I check out LW tonight 18:25:40 going to check out DrScheme as well 18:25:42 is it on windows ? 18:25:57 I hoping to use Linux VMs 18:26:05 ok 18:26:07 true, i didn't mean to imply that games isn't real programming, but if you want to use games as a teaching vehicle you need to consider what makes games easy (pygame, sdl, squeak (smalltalk)) 18:26:30 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:41 eMBee: true 18:26:51 eMBee: programming browser games is easy 18:27:14 it's easier to teach than opengl or even sdl, it's useful to learn web programming 18:28:46 Guthur: also, if you want to talk to someone who is experienced in getting teenagers to use linux, try this guy: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/ 18:29:30 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:29:35 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:04 eMBee: cool, cheers 18:30:42 one cool thing about using Scheme might be the possibility of using Lego Mindstorms in some future group 18:30:46 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:18 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:41 everyone knows robots are cool, hehe 18:31:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:58 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:32:26 I probably wouldn't mind investing in the NXT system anyway, 18:33:03 Guthur: I have a NXT and it's a lot harder than you'd think to build the damn things 18:33:42 if you have any talent at software development, however, you will be a god among mortals on the NXT forums, though 18:34:21 lol 18:35:11 hehe, well I could always do with the ego boost 18:35:32 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:45 it's offset by the disappointment that technix is so much harder to build things than the normal legos 18:35:48 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:05 dlowe: out of interest; have you tried the scheme for NXT 18:36:06 you can't build by accreation 18:36:31 Guthur: I haven't. I used a system called BitC 18:37:06 not sure I knew at the time there was a scheme 18:37:08 I think there is also a CL for NXT 18:37:12 dlowe: where ? 18:37:19 maybe it doesn't use the new brick 18:37:44 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:38:04 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #lisp 18:38:30 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:38:54 -!- mamaleone [~mamaleone@dyndsl-085-016-063-230.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:54 fe[nl]ix: not BitC... NXC 18:39:03 fe[nl]ix: http://bricxcc.sourceforge.net/nbc/ 18:39:24 Guthur: that seems unlikely, unless you're talking about a subset 18:40:03 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:40:27 it was via Allegro 18:40:29 http://www.yuasa.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~yuasa/xs/ 18:40:48 sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 18:40:52 I have no idea how well it all works though 18:41:09 only stumbled across the link today, when researching this 18:41:57 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:09 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:16 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:27 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:48:25 I've also considered creating a small LOGO-like turtle graphics system 18:50:00 stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:50:55 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:16 we had a scheme for pics at udem's summer camp once. Worked very nicely, and the kids got to build interesting logic for the tiny bots. 18:53:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:55:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 18:55:57 I think scheme might be more sensible choice for this level of activity over CL, only hitch is that I've never really used scheme in anger 18:57:10 Who will teach the teachers? 18:58:23 Xach: The autodidacts, of course! 18:58:42 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:36 nice word 18:59:40 I must try to use that, hehe 18:59:50 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:02:13 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:37 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:56 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:06:54 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:07:25 -!- wvoq`` [~user@bio-86-120.pooled.UMBC.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:32 Anyone here have an opinion about any books published by Manning? 19:08:02 which would that be? I don't know all book I've read by author ... 19:09:21 flip214: Manning is a publisher. 19:09:54 *Xach* does not have any books published by Manning 19:10:04 I'm not sure I do either. 19:10:17 However I'm talking to them about doing some editing work. 19:10:30 Actually, I think I have Object Oriented Perl somewhere. 19:13:15 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.22.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:24 hmmm, no, sorry, can't help here 19:13:25 and you want people actually know you have it, hehe 19:14:28 *sykopomp* thought gigamonkey was talking about Bradley Manning 19:18:13 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:18:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:18:55 gabnet [~gabnet@245.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:30 -!- Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:47 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEA7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:12 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:01 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:29 nepnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:27:57 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:28:41 Oh, I have the Joy of Clojure. 19:29:03 gigamonkey: there's a topical ointment for that 19:29:19 The book, I'm talking about. 19:29:25 Published by Manning. 19:29:29 Per my earlier question. 19:29:32 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:57 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:06 *antifuchs* giggles 19:33:51 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34:29 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8DFD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:00 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:49 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:31 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 19:42:04 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:43:17 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.232.237] has joined #lisp 19:49:21 -!- H4ns [5b3d40d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.64.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:50:17 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-30.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:57:06 hi, what is a good ointment against the joy of clojure? I read somewhere that there is a topical ointment for that. So which brand actually works? 19:57:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:00 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:58:07 Whatever you do, avoid SOAP, which is highly irritating. 20:01:51 oh ok, so probably using just some water. and then probably RESTing in bed. 20:02:12 g443 [~gmt@host31-53-172-91.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:49 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:11 -!- _krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:16 -!- blumbri [1000@204.152.219.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:59 You could also try a Simple, Basic, Common Lintment. 20:05:18 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890206.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:05:35 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:57 -!- PuffThe`` is now known as PuffTheMagic_ 20:06:21 It's "liniment" I think. 20:06:44 Though actually sounds like a good name for some Lisp project. 20:06:50 Mmm. Couldn't get google to offer a spelling correction. 20:07:02 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:07:04 Sure. But the acronym might be in use already... 20:07:29 _krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 20:07:31 I just meant "liniment" 20:07:47 Maybe, or "common liniment". 20:08:10 Some sort of automatic model-checking and code critique system, perhaps? 20:08:15 sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 20:08:26 Yeah, something like that. 20:11:27 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:12:36 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.101] has joined #lisp 20:12:54 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 20:12:57 accursed javascript 20:13:11 who do I have to throw money at to make browsers accept native common lisp? 20:14:01 but now serious. clojure is an interesting new conception of lisp. Making it atleast as "functional" as it always was refered to. Which means we now can heat up multiple cores, using more power. 20:14:08 anvandare: yourself, for therapy to get over it. 20:14:18 ;_; 20:14:42 nah, clojure stinks. You have to know all the ins and outs of java classes to get any use out of it. 20:15:12 talking of browsers, I had this weird idea the other day that LaTeX would have been better than HTML 20:15:42 Guthur: not as accessible in the beginning 20:16:05 but certainly prettier 20:16:08 tbatchelli- [~user@ppp-71-139-29-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:32 yep, the web would have looked pretty sweet 20:17:43 and considering gymnastics people where doing with HTML to get reasonable layouts it may have actually been easier in the long run 20:17:51 stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:18:04 You could develop incrementally with HTML, though 20:18:07 thankfully soon it'll all be canvas :> 20:18:29 I haven't yet seen latex code which didn't look like a hack. HTML is an ugly mess, but that mess looks atleast a bit well minded than say latex. 20:19:03 anvandare: Hah! Some people /still/ keep an IE6 around for certain things. 20:19:13 and those people should be set on fire 20:19:27 with 'firefox' 20:19:28 http://www.tatanka.com.br/ies4linux/page/Main_Page 20:19:48 used that for a long time for testing 20:20:11 o.O 20:20:32 anvandare: it's just a wine bottle :p 20:20:46 blumbri [1000@204.152.219.23] has joined #lisp 20:20:56 no, i was wondering about the legalese 20:21:30 anvandare: it's a script that downloads from MS's site 20:22:30 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:23:26 -!- Kovensky [kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:24:15 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:25:29 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.22.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:25:31 b 20:25:34 Er, sorry. 20:25:44 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:47 There were supposed to be some control keys along with that 'b' 20:26:24 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:26:41 ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:43 Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:27:45 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:18 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:29:12 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 20:29:58 benny [~benny@i577A23C9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:34 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 20:31:05 -!- PuffTheMagic_ [~PuffTheMa@cpe-74-76-135-40.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:31:05 PuffTheMagic_ [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 20:32:25 stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:32:38 -!- tbatchelli- [~user@ppp-71-139-29-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:09 tbatchelli- [~user@ppp-71-139-29-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:16 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:41 -!- tbatchelli- [~user@ppp-71-139-29-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:14 tbatchelli- [~user@ppp-71-139-29-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:01 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:16 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: g'night all.] 20:41:29 has somebody, or however to correctly say it, coded in lisp something like a transactional system but for code and data? I mean from the deployment perspective that doesn't look that stupid. 20:42:19 you mean a package manager? 20:43:06 more a vcs ? 20:44:37 fantazo: Drew McDermott did something like that. 20:45:02 Xach, do you know some details? 20:45:26 and for what did he use it? just curiosity. 20:46:27 fantazo: http://cs-www.cs.yale.edu/homes/dvm/papers/lisp05.pdf 20:48:03 its interesting, most of lisp papers I download have so meaningful filenames like lispN.pdf, where N is a number starting from 0. 20:48:22 I don't think it is a system reserved for Lisp. 20:52:13 stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:52:50 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 20:52:50 -!- g443 is now known as G4rb4 20:53:32 -!- G4rb4 is now known as Garba 20:53:39 -!- Garba is now known as G4rb4 20:55:16 -!- nepnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:52 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.22.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:56:26 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:57:33 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 20:57:34 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770DAD.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:58:12 nepnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:28 sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 21:00:28 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:02:02 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:03:03 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-jmwcvbwrxyffiyum] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:54 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:12 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:51 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:05:19 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:06:38 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:14 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:07:18 -!- foocraft is now known as art` 21:07:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has joined #lisp 21:07:39 woo, 20 subscribers for my github feed 21:07:48 well, 20 google reader subscribers 21:09:53 21 :p ;) 21:11:35 i really enjoy it. i have seen some new stuff that looks interesting via it. 21:12:49 -!- tbatchelli- [~user@ppp-71-139-29-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:08 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-57.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:13:19 tbatchelli- [~user@ppp-71-139-29-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:22 aglenday [~aglenday@59.167.161.74] has joined #lisp 21:14:08 yeah it's great to see all the new/interesting CL goings-on 21:14:12 -!- senj 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[~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:28 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.253.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:46 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:40:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:40:23 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 21:41:53 stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:43:20 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 21:46:20 xaxo [~space@tph119.physik.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 21:47:30 hi guys, how do i avoid calls to GENERIC-+ in the following code http://pastebin.com/S7NgG5Px 21:47:44 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.253.190] has joined #lisp 21:48:14 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:48:38 xaxo: you could mask off the results of the calculation so it fits in a fixnum 21:49:03 jasom: how do I do the "mask off"? 21:49:10 xaxo: logand 21:49:48 right now you are adding together a bunch of numbers that might not be a fixnum 21:50:07 jasom: ok, I will google logand, thank you 21:50:29 you probably want to do it on the results of the calculation too 21:51:03 since you're just hashing. I assume you want a fixnum hash of a point? 21:51:05 well I see calls to GENERIC-* and GENERIC-< GENERIC-NEGATE, so I would like to remove all 21:51:13 xaxo: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_logand.htm 21:51:49 jasom: yes, I want an integer, the mod will gove me something positive less than 113 21:51:56 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 21:52:24 why modulo 113 (out of curiosity) 21:53:04 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:28 -!- tbatchelli- [~user@ppp-71-139-29-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:53:40 the paper I'm following says that that number should be somewhere between 2N and 10N, and in my case N is on the order of 10 21:54:00 so 113 is fairly ok and prime :) 21:54:11 ah, so it has to be prime 21:54:17 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 21:54:33 austinh: I'm quite new to lisp, started learning it on the weekend, these website are still cryptic to me 21:55:03 xaxo: Well, definitely get comfortable with the hyperspec. It's an incredible resource. 21:55:04 also, you could probably use mod rather than logand, since SBCL ought to generate the same code for modulo 2^N and logand 2^N-1 21:55:35 Can someone please help me with this program? http://paste.lisp.org/display/126021 Only the join-hook gets called, the PRIVMESG commands don't trigger the registered hook but only a generic hook.. 21:55:44 joshe: is there a portable way of knowing the size of fixnum when I want to use logand? 21:55:51 but the hyperspec is a reference, not a tutorial. You'll learn all the fiddly details as you go, but it's a great way to find functions you might not know existed, by category 21:55:52 I use the current cl-irc from quicklisp btw 21:56:05 xaxo: most-positive-fixnum 21:56:30 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-144-57.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:56:58 -!- sepisultrum is now known as sepi 21:57:04 -!- blumbri [1000@204.152.219.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:28 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:58 entrix_ [~entrix@93-80-43-209.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:59:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.227] has left #lisp 21:59:52 sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-88.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 21:59:54 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:01:41 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:54 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:02:41 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 22:03:19 thank you, the assembly of this looks far better http://pastebin.com/vLRiccJ8 even though it looks ugly 22:03:25 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03:25 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 22:03:38 is there some easier way of doing this kind of optimisation without inserting all this stuff? 22:04:50 xaxo: There is no safe way to make sbcl add up a bunch of non-fixnums using fixnum arithmetic 22:05:35 xaxo: if you know for a fact that point-z is less than 1/7th of most-positive-fixnum, you could declare its type like that, so then it would know it's definitely a fixnum 22:06:09 but (* (point-z p) 7) is going to be bigger than a fixnum some of the time otherwise, and you need to use generic+ 22:06:29 how do I do that? I've seen only the unsigned-byte type? 22:06:33 xaxo: it's hard to lie to the compiler. 22:06:41 (integer lower-bound upper-bound) 22:07:03 You can have implicit wrap-around, like in C, easily: insert a single (logand m-p-f) around the sum. 22:07:08 ok, I will try that :) I hope the compiler is smart 22:07:10 *gigamonkey* once agains imagines a with-modular-arithmetic construct 22:07:59 gigamonkey: I'd rather have (wrapping-[unsigned|signed]-byte ...) types (: 22:08:37 btw is there some better profiling tool than (sb-sprof:with-profiling (:report :flat :loop nil) (main)) ? 22:08:51 xaxo: sure, the non-flat report. 22:09:09 also the non statistical profiler 22:09:14 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-205-158.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:28 blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:35 which is what slime uses 22:10:06 jasom: what? There's even slime-sprof. 22:10:24 there is profiling in the menu 22:11:06 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:10 pkhuong: if you just say "profile this (package|function)" it uses the deterministic profiler 22:11:45 anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-215-197.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:13:02 jasom: because the statistical profiler doesn't work that way. 22:13:57 pkhuong: the last time I read the slime docs it didn't mention a statistical profiler. I didn't know about slime-sprof 22:15:03 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:15:07 xaxo: you're probably just best off defining inline functions for * and + that are modulo a constant power of 2 22:15:33 jasom: absolutely not needed. 22:15:43 pkhuong: oh? 22:16:03 Like I said, it suffices to mask bits off with logand or mod around the sum. 22:16:26 pkhuong: yes, but if you're doing it a half-dozen times, then define inline functions for it 22:17:02 sacho_ [~sacho@90-154-150-88.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 22:17:38 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:54 I want to trace a method in sbcl but get: invalid function name: 'CL-IRC:ADD-HOOK. What could this mean? I can call the method though 22:17:58 " inline functions " I can redefine them locally ? 22:18:13 It's very rarely the best way to express a program, except when the arithmetic is explicitly modular (e.g. cryptography) 22:19:28 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-88.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:42 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:40 -!- blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:22:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:22:31 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@245.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has left #lisp 22:22:51 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:24:41 sepi: (trace function) not (trace 'function) 22:25:45 pkhuong: I think that's when I first thought of such a construct--I was trying to translate a C implementation of MD5 or something into CL and wishing there was an easy way to say, "just do math like C". 22:26:11 Obviously not what you normally want but in that case, it was. 22:26:56 gigamonkey: like uint32_t, not like C ;) 22:28:07 pkhuong: yes, of course. 22:28:35 Though that's in C99, isn't it? (Maybe by a different name.) 22:29:01 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.46.170] has joined #lisp 22:29:12 gigamonkey: hence my suggestion of doing it with number types. 22:30:18 pkhuong: I suppose. But then you have to delcare the types of all the variables and all the functions you use. What I was thinking was something where you could say (with-modular-arithmetic ((expt 2 32)) (+ x y)) 22:30:43 or make a macrolet that maintains let* entries with proper type declarations & masking 22:30:52 gigamonkey: uint32_t is in c99, but there were non-standard equivalents in common use for long before that 22:32:13 gigamonkey: a wrap-around-ful integer type could contaminate, like C. 22:33:03 Can anyone think of a modern programming language that doesn't support floating point arithmetic? 22:33:47 gigamonkey: bash? 22:33:49 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:55 gigamonkey: there are some high-reliability langagues that disallow floating-point 22:34:32 blumbri [1000@204.152.219.46] has joined #lisp 22:34:33 jasom: Interesting. I assume you're not referring to bash. ;-) Any specific examples? 22:36:07 gigamonkey: I'm trying to remember; there are so many "better systems language" C dialects 22:36:15 I was thinking cyclone, but it appears to support float 22:37:52 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-25-126-88.lightspeed.sjcpca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:52 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41:51 is forth "modern"? I think FP support is an optional extension 22:42:27 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:42:29 yep, the latest spec seems to still consider it optional 22:42:35 If you want to talk optional, I would bet that C doesn't require it... let me check 22:42:55 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:44:14 daimrod: thanks a lot, that did the trick :) 22:44:31 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-166-30.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:44:43 the funny thing is that you get different FP numbers out of the same program, depending on how you compile it and what architecture you have :) 22:44:48 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:39 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has joined #lisp 22:46:21 CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 22:46:56 jasom: assembly looks better just using the integer type with bounds, thank you, it's the better way than putting logand all over the code 22:46:58 xaxo: if you use strict IEEE754 you will always get the same result, but you still get the wrong answer a lot of the time 22:47:06 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.100.46.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:48:52 aha, C has to have a "float" type, but it need not be implemented as floating point 22:49:30 jasom: well different compilers/options can use SSE for the computation and the like, copying the FLOAT around truncates it to the register size 22:50:02 so your compiler can fuck you computation from on different machines if it uses different floating units and order of operations on them 22:50:15 xaxo: but then you aren't getting strict IEEE-754 behavior. I don't actually know of any C compiler that enforced IEEE-754 behavior on hardware floats though 22:50:24 btw there is funny issue with gcc about this http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=50773 22:51:01 xaxo: there's a better and older one about how if you store a float to memory and read it back you lose precision 22:51:09 it's like bug 300 22:51:10 and the flag -fexcess-precision=standard 22:51:38 jasom: this one no, but the implications are the same :) 22:52:04 bug 323 22:52:41 and bug 323 was responsible for a DOS vulnerability in PHP that was discovered about a year ago 22:53:03 the one that hit java too? 22:53:05 the hilarious thing is how many dups there are of it 22:53:27 fridim_ [~fridim@dafuckingbox.fridim.org] has joined #lisp 22:53:31 the real answer is "if you want exact results, don't use floating point" 22:53:53 :) then you have to wait like forever to get some 22:55:11 well I like how (a float? 22:56:19 yeah I meant x87 22:56:23 it doesn't happen on SSE 22:56:49 and a and b have to be computed from a function 22:57:06 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-164-109.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:57:38 but like (float)atoi("1")/atoi("3") < (float)atoi("1")/atoi("3") can evaluate to true depending on the codegen 22:58:00 :) well that you depend on also if you are using the memory to pass a and b from the function 22:58:24 maybe if you can force it to use a calling convention with memory stack, then both would get truncated the same way 22:58:40 xaxo: are you in Leipzig? 22:58:45 yes 22:59:03 cool, I spent a month in a little town called Eilenburg that isn't too far from Leipzig 22:59:30 :) I'm studying physics here since about 6 years 23:00:08 but I come from plovdiv, bulgaria 23:00:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.101] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:07 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA08D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:04:46 sacho__ [~sacho@90-154-150-88.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 23:07:46 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@90-154-150-88.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:10:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.253.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:10:49 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-190.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:30 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:15:10 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:24 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:28 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:21:19 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-220-163.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 23:24:13 -!- blumbri [1000@204.152.219.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:44 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.253.190] has joined #lisp 23:26:55 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 23:27:08 -!- sacho__ [~sacho@90-154-150-88.btc-net.bg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:09 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 23:27:22 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:28:26 sacho [~sacho@90-154-150-88.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 23:30:54 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:32:44 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:57 blumbri [1000@204.152.219.7] has joined #lisp 23:38:48 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:38:57 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:28 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@dafuckingbox.fridim.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:55 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:39 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:01 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:53:06 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.101] has joined #lisp 23:54:27 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.253.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54:57 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.253.190] has joined #lisp 23:57:40 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEA7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:43 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep]