00:07:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:20 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:08:25 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:09:30 https://gist.github.com/1379067 what is the right way to do this? 00:10:58 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:12:36 jaimef: I strongly prefer to define systems for all my projects. That means I put project relationships into an .asd file instead of into .lisp source code. 00:16:49 -!- Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:17:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:18:15 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:23:44 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.106] has joined #lisp 00:25:14 tarleb [~user@e179239159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:26:33 dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has joined #lisp 00:27:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:15 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:23 spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:31 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:33:41 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 00:34:08 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 00:43:22 -!- mooglenorph [~marco@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:48:46 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:49:17 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.78] has joined #lisp 00:53:12 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:40 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0468.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:58:26 -!- cYmen_ is now known as cYmen 00:58:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:01:23 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0705.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:02:42 -!- tarleb [~user@e179239159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:04:27 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:05:43 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:05:54 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:09:11 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-75-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:12:13 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:12:19 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:36 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:45 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:14:58 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:15:04 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-147-178.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:17:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:19:21 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:19:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:23:03 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:23:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:25:44 tarleb [~user@e179239159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:26:34 -!- |3b|` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:11 |3b|` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:52 -!- tarleb [~user@e179239159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:22 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:43:45 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0468.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:45:36 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@2001:470:1f15:1c54::fade:1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:52:13 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:52:48 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:48 Iceland_mac [~user@gigur.vedur.is] has joined #lisp 01:54:20 In Peter Norvig's PAIP he passes the plus operator into a function by using '+ 01:54:37 how is that different from passing in (function +)? 01:55:18 <|3b|`> '+ returns the symbol +, (function +) returns the actual function object 01:55:50 <|3b|`> for symbols in the CL package, there isn't any semantic difference (in conforming code/implementations) 01:55:54 ah, but it gives the same result when called with FUNCALL? 01:55:59 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-147-178.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:56:34 <|3b|`> for other symbols, (function foo) might evaluate to a different function than (funcall 'foo) would call 01:56:40 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:46 hm, it also prints differently 01:57:04 I suppose that obvious in retrospect: # versus + 01:57:53 <|3b|`> the main difference is that FUNCTION can see local function bindings, like FLET or LABELS functions 01:58:28 <|3b|`> there is also the question of what happens when you redefine the function 01:58:56 Hm, there's nothing similar to that going on in the book's example 01:59:09 lanthan [~ze@p54B7CC38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:23 <|3b|`> right, and + is a symbol in the CL package, so you can't bind it locally or redefine it anyway :) 01:59:24 so I assume he passed '+ instead of #'+ to make it display nicer when printed 02:00:07 since the function includes something like (format t "~&How much is ~d ~a ~d?" x op y) where op is '+ 02:03:59 Just to be sure |3b|`, passing in #'+ is more idiomatic? That's at least what I see more often in code 02:04:38 <|3b|`> not really 02:04:45 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 02:04:51 hm 02:05:01 <|3b|> they have distinct meanings, so you should pick whichever is correct first 02:05:07 ah right 02:05:24 I do recall reading that passing in 'function was a mistake when the author actually meant to pass in #'+ 02:05:32 so that must've been flat out wrong 02:05:34 <|3b|> beyond that it is probably more a question of style which you would pick when it doesn't matter 02:06:09 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:06:29 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:40 <|3b|> if you mean "the local function foo", then #'foo or equivalently (function foo) is the only correct answer 02:08:44 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0468.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:11:16 -!- rme [rme@50BE4D1C.A884877E.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:11:17 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:14:24 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:55 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 02:20:04 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:20:08 sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925080656.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:20:38 crassus [~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:27 thank you for your help |3b| :) 02:26:00 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:26:06 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:30:51 rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has joined #lisp 02:31:59 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D6C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:19 chenbing [~user@115.205.5.243] has joined #lisp 02:32:37 ;-) 02:33:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CA67.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:08 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3D91.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:33 resu_ 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[~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:18:43 resu__ [~resu@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 05:20:02 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:21:01 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:21:59 -!- OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:22:15 -!- resu [~resu@97.72.154.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:27:45 jsoft [~josh@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 05:29:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:32:41 wow cmucl is a pita to build 05:33:49 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:33:54 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 05:34:47 I seem to recall that being the raison d'etre of SBCL. ;) 05:35:05 heh 05:35:21 "you need cmucl to build cmucl" 05:39:35 akovalen` [~anton@95.73.52.175] has joined #lisp 05:39:58 -!- akovalen` is now known as 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[~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 06:59:30 psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-253-191.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:44 -!- psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-253-191.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 07:00:25 jaimef: you need a c-compiler to build a c-compiler too 07:01:23 yeah cross compiling is so non-existant :P 07:01:48 if I have a native version, I wouldn't be trying to build it :P 07:02:16 oh, well cross-compiling is a different can of worms 07:03:40 yeah that thread was so many hours ago though :P 07:04:44 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:02 yea, someone should fork cmucl and rewrite it to allow cross-compiling from other CL implementations 07:06:21 doesn't sbcl do that? 07:06:29 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:36 kloeri_ [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 07:06:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:06:57 pretty sure it does 07:10:37 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:41 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 07:15:01 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:05 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:13 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 07:18:28 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 07:18:32 -!- kloeri_ is now known as kloeri 07:19:19 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:19:25 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:47 clbuild maintained? lot of things hit repos no longer maintained 07:27:23 everyone uses quicklisp these days 07:28:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:31:25 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:35:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:37:17 Mekanik [~vov@91.79.128.235] has joined #lisp 07:37:38 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 07:39:43 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 07:43:32 sylecn [~sylecn@180.120.17.69] has joined #lisp 07:48:21 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:50:02 -!- Phoodus [~foo@63-235-81-162.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:52:25 quickload build anything successfully? :P 07:53:18 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:54:01 jaimef: why are you trying to use cmucl? 07:54:10 jaimef: and why are you trying to build it? 07:54:28 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 07:55:09 I am on sbcl in ql trying to build, climacs, hemlock, and they bomb. 07:56:01 jaimef: ah, climacs, hemlock. are you trying to use sbcl 1.0.53? 07:56:34 1.0.45.0.debian 07:57:09 lose everything debian installed for you in terms of common-lisp. install sbcl from the tarball, then use quicklisp for everything 07:57:20 ok thanks 07:57:21 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:35 yeah I forget the debian "versions" tend to be antiquated 07:57:51 debian's common-lisp support will just get in your way, constantly. 07:57:51 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.98] has joined #lisp 07:58:33 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:02:55 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:17 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 08:12:13 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:00 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:15:48 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-12-152.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:15:48 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-12-152.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:15:48 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:16:16 "support" 08:18:57 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:22 in many ways that's sad 08:21:25 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.187.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:21:41 it is a reflection of the fact that we have not yet got organized enough to support actually useful stable software 08:23:21 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:16 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-132-43.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:24:57 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 08:26:47 what are you on about? 08:28:05 so if you install something like climacs, or hemlock via cl how do you call it? 08:29:31 jaimef: you mean "ql"? 08:29:47 yeah 08:30:36 jaimef: you call the entry point function of the library that you've loaded. 08:31:42 (ql:quickload :buildapp) ;; may be useful here 08:33:47 *H4ns* tried to find out how to start climacs by looking at the docs, failed. 08:35:16 (climacs:climacs) 08:36:18 jaimef: see, you figured it out :) 08:36:33 jaimef: does it come up as something pretty? 08:36:39 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:36:55 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-130-248.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:33 H4ns: sort of ugly motif looking 08:40:31 schme [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:40:33 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-190-169.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 08:40:33 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 08:41:39 Ralith: debian really does do good stuff at packaging software that doesn't need to be both the absolute latest version and doesn't need to be updated frequently 08:41:49 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:49 dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 08:41:56 we as a bunch of Lispers have singularly failed, with a few exceptions, to deliver such software 08:41:57 Kryztof: oh, I see your point 08:41:59 I find that a bit sad 08:42:08 but, well 08:42:17 "hemlock and climacs are not stable software" 08:42:20 is not a compelling anecdote 08:42:30 for generalization across all of CL 08:42:53 since, you know, they're not really *supposed* to be stable. 08:43:37 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:46:14 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:43 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-130-248.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:50:03 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 08:50:44 I'd like a VIM rewrite in CL ... 08:52:01 problem is that most keyboard maps (be it for emacs, textmate, whatever else) either don't have the text objects, don't get the modes correct, and/or don't provide things like ":g//normal j:s///" (find a string, substitute in the previous line) etc 08:52:02 shouldn't be too hard, isn't the basic vi about 10 lines of C? 08:52:22 df: you might be thinking about ed .... 08:52:40 well, vi is just a visual mode on top of ed 08:52:42 and no, the simple thing wouldn't work - the text objects and so on make it good 08:52:47 or ex, which I think is basically the same 08:53:17 and of course, for maximum usability it should have a vimscript => CL translator ;) 08:53:27 to be able to use all the plugins ... 08:53:27 I've not tried, but do the various vim emulators for emacs not meet your above requirements? 08:53:57 Well, I wasn't happy the few times I tried. 08:55:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:55:47 they are vi emulators, not vim emulators 08:56:03 vim is hairier than emacs these days 08:56:16 oh? 08:56:22 vim with it's 3k plugins shows vi lost the war 08:57:14 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:57:45 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:57:56 well, let's just say that most vim users around me would be very unhappy with a more traditional vi 08:58:04 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 08:58:18 oh yeah. seen many a vim user on vi from unix and choke 08:58:30 well I think the emacs modes go a bit further than plain vi 08:59:37 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:43 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-99-68.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:00:51 I really don't know what editor I'd choose if I were starting programming today and so weren't as used to emacs as I am. emacs is certainly not as clearly nicer than the alternative now as it was 20 years ago 09:02:07 it is often lighter weight though, ironically 09:02:41 yeah, but who cares these days 09:03:07 eighty megs and climbing! 09:03:29 cmm: I've seen eclipse crawl on some fairly powerful machines 09:05:34 df: the dismal performance of eclipse is the only reason people even care about things like emacs or vi, so be thankful :) 09:05:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:38 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 09:07:09 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:07:18 cmm: is there a slime for eclipse? no? didn't think so ... so there're other reasons as well ;) 09:07:43 it's strange really, eclipse plugins must be horrible to write, but there are loads of them out there for all sorts of things 09:08:06 flip214: http://bitfauna.com/projects/cusp/index.html 09:08:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:08:26 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:43 actually maybe we should just embed abcl in eclipse and all buy loads of RAM 09:08:51 that's nothings to do with eclipse, right? 09:09:04 ah, sorry 09:09:26 hmrpf, didn't want to know that, but thank you ;) 09:14:16 marsell [~marsell@101.116.48.235] has joined #lisp 09:16:15 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.217.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:17:31 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:17:44 Ralith: sure, but the fact is that as H4ns says, empirically, there is almost no useful lisp stuff packaged for Debian. Not just not climacs nor hemlock, but also everything else. The only thing I can think of that is packaged is cedilla 09:18:02 debian doesn't have maxima? 09:18:10 sorry, you're quite right 09:18:24 maxima, axiom, acl2 and probably that kind of thing is well-represented 09:18:39 they all largely predate the "modern" lisp community 09:18:42 true 09:18:47 and a good point besides 09:19:03 there's a confounding variable, though 09:19:15 many major and stable lisp projects simply aren't intended for that kind of distribution 09:19:52 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 09:20:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:23:18 am I right in thinking that the initial value of a defparameter form is evaluated at load time? 09:24:10 Ralith: yes. One thing, though, is that Debian manages to package other language stuff (libraries, utilities) in a way that is at least marginally useful to people who want to develop things using those libraries. Where we haven't done so well as a community is in establishing a base which might not be quite so up-to-the-minute as to be useful to language developers, but is nevertheless usable to application developers and supportable 09:24:10 by third parties 09:24:32 of course our problem is harder than many others' because of the implementation x library cross-product effect 09:24:36 nevertheless, I find it a bit sad 09:24:41 (go Xach) 09:24:47 it's also in part a factor of community size 09:24:51 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.187.231] has joined #lisp 09:25:16 I often find that I need to patch libraries I use as a result of them recieving very little recent attention 09:25:43 cl-opengl and cl-llvm, for example, seem to have very few (active, in-community) users 09:26:06 and even postmodern seems to be maintained singlehandedly 09:32:37 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.187.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:20 hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:22 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:50:46 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:16 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:53:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:02:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.46.34] has joined #lisp 10:02:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.46.34] has quit [Changing host] 10:02:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:07:03 daniel_ [~daniel@p508292D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:22 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326005.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:14:24 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:16:23 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *_*] 10:19:47 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-147-178.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:22:29 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:23:40 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:25:19 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:36 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:16 -!- resu_ [~resu@97.72.154.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:51 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 10:34:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:36:10 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 10:38:17 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.1 -- Are we there yet?] 10:46:32 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:21 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:52:30 topo [~topo@77.228.206.176] has joined #lisp 10:52:33 hi 10:52:45 im trying to install ppcre 10:52:47 im doing 10:52:53 (require 'asdf-install) 10:53:05 (asdf-install:install 'cl-ppcre) 10:53:05 it asked me for a folder 10:53:09 so i created it 10:53:34 hereP 10:53:40 /usr/local/lib/sbcl 10:53:45 and then im getting this 10:53:49 http://pastebin.com/BE8uNv1R 10:53:51 any idea? 10:54:49 topo: your user doesn't have permission to write to that directory 10:55:06 ummm 10:55:07 but anyway, I suggest using quicklisp (http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/) rather than asdf-install 10:55:14 how can i have permision? 10:55:32 ok thanks im gonna check quicklisp 10:55:48 i think i have quicklisp installed 10:56:04 because for loading swank i usually do: 10:56:05 (ql:quickload "swank") 10:56:52 ohhh 10:57:47 i did (ql:quickload "cl-ppcre") and it worked 10:57:47 thanks 10:57:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:51 ;) 10:58:25 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.98] has joined #lisp 10:59:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:59:22 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:00:55 -!- topo [~topo@77.228.206.176] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:01:30 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:47 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 11:03:52 -!- marsell [~marsell@101.116.48.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:30 urandom__ [~user@p548A22D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:23 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D6C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 11:10:39 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 11:12:16 urandom_ [~user@p548A5EF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:22 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 11:13:17 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A5EF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:48 urandom_ [~user@p548A5EF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:52 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A22D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:27 morning 11:19:14 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:21:40 -!- Iceland_mac [~user@gigur.vedur.is] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:23:31 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:12 -!- Mekanik [~vov@91.79.128.235] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 11:30:28 *nikodemus* reads logs 11:31:42 phax [~phax@5ade3efb.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:42 -!- phax [~phax@5ade3efb.bb.sky.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:31:42 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 11:33:36 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.88] has joined #lisp 11:33:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.88] has quit [Changing host] 11:33:36 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:36:17 deepfire_ [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 11:36:29 -!- deepfire_ [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Client Quit] 11:39:17 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 11:42:47 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:52 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:17 Kryztof: re. third party distributions for developers and application bases. i don't know about the developer tool stuff -- because i can't really see how distributions can compete with quicklisp. for applications i think making it easier for multiple versions of sbcl to co-exist and adding heapdump to contribs could go fairly far 11:47:26 Kryztof: so applications could look like #!/specific/sbcl/version --script\n(load-heapdumped-libs)(load-heapdumped-app)(run-app) 11:47:33 or something 11:50:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:32 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:57:06 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:58:34 Kryztof: no, it's a reflection that a lisp system is not a unix system. 11:58:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:17 flip214: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.ed) (com.informatimago.common-lisp.ed.ed:ed) 12:01:08 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:04:19 df: you're wrong. It's evaluated at compilation-time. Try: (macroexpand '(defparameter x (+ 1 y))) 12:09:00 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:44 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:10:09 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:16:30 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:18:15 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:18:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:19:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.69] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:19:49 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.69] has joined #lisp 12:20:30 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.5.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:48 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:53 pjb: I think the unixity or otherwise of Debian is a total irrelevance to the supportability of Lisp software by third parties 12:21:00 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.241] has joined #lisp 12:21:03 pjb: in sbcl, that wraps (SB-IMPL::%COMPILER-DEFVAR 'X) in an (eval-when (:compile-toplevel)), but the assignment of the initial value form is wrapped in (eval-when (:load-toplevel :execute)) 12:21:27 which agrees with the brief testing I did 12:21:32 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:22:28 and the spec, as I understand it: 'it must neither evaluate the initial-value form nor assign the dynamic variable named name at compile time' 12:22:30 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 12:22:34 pjb: where are you looking at macroexpand? It shouldn't have other compile-time side effect than proclaiming special X special (well, maybe some internal debugging / source location stuff as well) 12:23:22 nikodemus: quicklisp is just a distribution mechanism, plus a single person doing some sanity checks (e.g. "does the universe still build"). There is so much more integration and distribution work to do that in the Linux world is often done by distributors such as Debian 12:23:41 checking whether anything that builds actually works together, for example 12:23:50 and yes of course manpower is an issue 12:24:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:24:22 but we haven't been great at harnessing the external manpower that is potentially available, at engaging with those sources of integration 12:25:14 don't like what debian-cl does in practice? Help them to do it better; if you think they're actively harmful in their uselessness, tell them about it 12:25:28 (if you think they're wrong in principle, then fine) 12:26:22 has anybody rendered the (draft) spec into an ebook friendly format? pdf would be ok, but preferably with a small page size 12:26:26 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 12:27:07 Kryztof: who is they? i'd like to write them an email and ask them whether they can make common-lisp-controller optional. 12:28:41 H4ns: pkg-common-lisp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org 12:28:43 df: there's a dpans2texi program available and from texi i think you have a lot of options. 12:28:58 df: thanks! 12:29:22 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:29:28 Xach: thanks, I'll have a look 12:30:17 H4ns: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=debian+common+lisp 12:30:40 Kryztof: df's answer was actually helpful and i'm writing this email now. 12:31:17 and my point is that you could have found it out for yourself 12:31:33 Kryztof: right. i can also not write this email. 12:31:56 Kryztof: i don't disagree, but i think "how to do third-party distribution of applications and libraries for applications" is a problem that needs technical solutions on our side -- whereas "how to do third-party distribution of libraries for development", which seems more of a social problem at the moment 12:32:52 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:09 H4ns: of course you can choose not to. 12:33:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:33:23 Kryztof: ok, i won't. this community does not deserve better. 12:33:39 I'm not sure why you think that that affects me 12:33:50 but by all means cut your nose off to spite your face 12:34:29 and sure, this community gets what it deserves 12:34:39 Kryztof: i'm not trying to affect you. i misinterpreted your expression of sadness as being meant to motivate people to help, but apparently you seem to be more interested in whining. 12:34:44 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@180.120.17.69] has quit [Quit: Yaaah!] 12:36:03 I must be failing to communicate in quite some special way today 12:36:13 possible. 12:37:09 one thing that is probably affecting the communication is that I am basically semi-detached from Lisp at the moment, so I don't think of myself as "us" any more 12:37:28 "this community" wgets http://www.sbcl.org/... happily. Some smart people at pkg-common-lisp-devel@... experiment with CL software packaging, happily as well. The only source of problems is when someone mistakes debianish experiments for something ready to use. 12:37:30 another thing is that my natural bent is to observe, not to motivate 12:37:48 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 12:38:24 at least on IRC 12:40:06 -!- waveman [~tim@124-170-16-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:40:41 so an observation about the effect of two groups of workers not only talking past each other but failing to collaborate fairly spectacularly to the extent that, as akovalenko says, there are basically groups of smart people not coordinating in any way, isn't (in my space) incompatible with an admittedly snide observation that asking on IRC for stuff that's the top hit on google is generally frowned on 12:40:50 I apologise for the snideness 12:41:11 I /should/ have pasted the hit instead, because that too would have been useful 12:41:27 and now, that is enough about me 12:41:29 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has left #lisp 12:42:34 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.161] has joined #lisp 12:44:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.161] has quit [Changing host] 12:44:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:47:58 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:48:06 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 12:52:00 so what is it that linux packagers could do better, other than staying on top of the latest versions of everything? 12:54:34 Xach: is it possible to get quicklisp to only download a (with and without dependencies), and build in a seperate step? 12:54:40 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-135-22.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:54:54 eMBee: there isn't a terse way 12:55:34 eMBee: in the ql-dist package, ENSURE-INSTALLED, REQUIRED-SYSTEMS, and some other functions can do the trick. 12:56:05 ok 12:57:23 can it handle a systemwide directory for installed packages? 12:58:53 eMBee: It isn't designed for that, but there has been at least one person who has installed like that. 12:59:09 I don't know what things he had to avoid or change to make it work for him. 13:00:01 Some things that spring to mind: it expects that the quicklisp directory is writable and that new files and directories can be created without issue there 13:00:29 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:01:06 ok, well, i am thinking of it using a directory per user as normal, but look in a system directory for preinstalled packages that might fulfill dependencies. 13:01:41 oh, that is a matter of configuring asdf. 13:01:52 ok 13:01:58 it will load asdf-visible systems first if available 13:04:12 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:09:37 is it possible to find the version of a package, and get quicklisp to download a package by version? 13:10:21 I'm not sure what you mean by that, sorry. 13:10:43 I suspect as a result the answer is "not tersely" 13:10:47 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:12:55 well many (or some?) packages have releases with numbers, others have a repository. i guess quicklisp in most (or all) cases takes the latest of a repository. 13:12:55 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:11 but if i want to install a package on different machines, sometimes i want to ensure i get the same version even if i don't install at the same time 13:14:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 13:14:41 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 13:14:51 eMBee: ah. all projects are versioned together as a set. you get the dist from the timeframe you want. 13:15:21 http://blog.quicklisp.org/2011/08/going-back-in-dist-time.html has the outline. (it's still not terse) 13:16:26 ah, yes, that is good enough, thank you 13:16:54 does anyone have allegro or lispworks handy? 13:16:58 nikodemus: i do. 13:17:03 What's the difference between heapdump and save-lisp-and-die? 13:17:05 what does (write (make-array 3 :element-type 'single-float) :readably t) do? 13:17:38 nikodemus: on alisp, it errors: PRINT-NOT-READABLE 13:17:39 Ralith: heapdump is david lichteblau's system to dump / load parts of the heap 13:17:51 nikodemus: the utility of this being? 13:18:00 use-case, rather 13:18:26 nikodemus: on lispworks, #.(COERCE #(1.761085E-19 -6.1139653E-12 0.0)'(SIMPLE-ARRAY SINGLE-FLOAT (3))) 13:19:35 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:20:42 thanks 13:24:31 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0468.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:47 hi 13:29:24 Ralith: the utility of heapdump, compared to save-lisp-and-die, can be twofold. Consider /parts/ of the heap above, and /DIE/ in save-lisp-and-die. 13:29:52 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:28 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:30:30 so, saves a bit of disk space and doesn't force you to reset global state? 13:30:44 vhygt6fv 13:30:59 nicdev: you may want to change your password. 13:31:44 *gensym* changed nick to nicdev 13:32:08 and consider http://xkcd.com/936/ while you are at it 13:32:52 i was searching for benchmarks that compare performance of sbcl and clozure cl but can't seem to find any 13:32:57 tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:33:16 troydm: i don't think i've seen any published lately. 13:33:19 no one tried benchmarking those two impls? 13:33:34 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7CC38.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:45 troydm: yes, they have, but not lately. in general sbcl produces faster machine code and ccl produces machine code faster. 13:34:10 Xach: so basicly sbcl performs faster? 13:34:13 I would be interested in a fresh set of benchmarketing. It's been a while and things have changed. 13:34:13 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:50 troydm: no, basically not. sbcl has a very slow compiler compared to ccl, for example. 13:35:17 Xach: i mean in a production set where you have running app that is already compiled 13:35:28 troydm: That's my impression. 13:36:03 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:12 easyE [4H5HbdexHH@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:19 -!- cow-orker [~foobar@pogostick.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:19 -!- shoerain [~mortimer@wc249-118.resnet.stonybrook.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:19 -!- koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:19 -!- C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:20 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:20 -!- _krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:20 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:20 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:20 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:22 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- Intensity [eze1bCJjAL@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@INDIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- kruhft [~user@209.89.22.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- rbancroft [~rumble@S0106000024ccf2b4.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- ineiros_ [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- limetree_ [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:23 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:36:24 Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 13:36:25 _krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 13:36:25 cow-orker [~foobar@pogostick.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:25 C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 DrForr_ [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 troydm: There may be important things that ccl is faster at (e.g. i/o or clos or something), so it would be interesting to see comprehensive benchmarks. 13:36:27 PuffThe`` [~PuffTheMa@cpe-74-76-135-40.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:27 Pepe__ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:30 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:34 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 13:36:39 limetree [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:45 i'll try cl-bench 13:36:47 Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:36:58 and on sbcl fasloader... aut bene, aut nihil 13:37:03 vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:03 -!- vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:03 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 13:37:10 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:17 shoerain [~mortimer@wc249-118.resnet.stonybrook.edu] has joined #lisp 13:37:32 troydm: what does your application do? 13:37:32 Intensity [UgkqQK1boU@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 13:37:34 troydm: some ostensibly-runtime things actually invoke the compiler, like CLOS, so compiler performance can be important 13:37:47 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:37:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:37:59 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.106] has joined #lisp 13:38:16 Xach: i don't have one :) just curious 13:38:34 rbancroft [~rumble@S0106000024ccf2b4.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:22 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:39:36 (then again, performance in general is less important than it sometimes seems to be. other things may be much more important: documantation, tool support, portability, error clarity, etc) 13:39:57 god I can't type today 13:40:15 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 13:40:26 huh Heap exhausted during allocation: 32755712 bytes available, 36000016 requested. 13:40:33 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 13:40:38 while running cl-bench on sbcl 13:41:12 cmm: documentation wise which one is better? 13:41:23 troydm: try playing with --dynamic-space-size 13:41:25 frozencemetery [~frozencem@INDIUM.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 13:41:52 -!- frozencemetery is now known as Guest82532 13:42:07 between sbcl and ccl? no idea, I've never used ccl enough to tell 13:43:19 dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has joined #lisp 13:44:56 but clisp, for instance, is great on the portability and compiler speed fronts but not much else. which does make it a great deployment choice for when you need to run script-like stuff on many platforms 13:45:29 see, with great diversity comes great confusion :) 13:45:34 i used to think clisp was great on portability but i always, always have a devil of a time building it. 13:46:31 well, i guess that's not a portability knock. 13:46:51 Xach: last time I used it (5 or 6 years ago?) I've indeed struggled a little to build it on AIX and HP/UX, but since that was a one-time thing it wasn't a big deal 13:48:01 i have trouble on linux and os x 13:50:17 Xach: ISTR that leaving pretty much every possible build-time extension out helped a lot 13:50:34 macports seem to manage to build it for me 13:50:44 bad luck if you actually need those, of course 13:50:51 cmm: then you get to revise the common remark "clisp is easy to build and has such a friendly repl!" 13:50:55 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:51:30 I don't find its REPL too friendly either, for what it's worth :) 13:51:48 "friendly" meaning "readline" in that case 13:52:00 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:52:05 I know what you mean, yeah :) 13:52:07 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:53:35 back then it was very helpful to have CMUCL and SLIME to develop with 13:56:05 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:56:11 Hello 14:01:43 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:03:22 pers [~user@96-25-162-104.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:41 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:08:47 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:45 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has joined #lisp 14:18:28 -!- hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:56 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:25:27 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:26:32 ngz [~user@244.44.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:21 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:54 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:39:59 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:42:17 waltwhite [~waltwhite@ABordeaux-256-1-98-74.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:47:11 -!- nikodemus` is now known as nikodemus 14:48:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:57 -!- nikodemus is now known as nikodemus_ 14:52:09 -!- nikodemus_ is now known as nikodemus` 14:52:18 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 14:53:43 -!- nikodemus` is now known as nikodemus 14:54:02 -!- nikodemus is now known as nikodemus` 14:54:43 -!- nikodemus` is now known as nikodemus 14:55:10 -!- nikodemus is now known as nikodemus` 14:55:24 -!- nikodemus` is now known as nikodemus 14:56:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:19 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:08:00 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:09:08 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:25 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:35 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 15:14:28 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:51 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:20:16 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:30 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:21:25 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:38 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:22:29 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:47 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:26:49 ruediger_ [~ruediger@93-82-13-243.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 15:28:24 So I'd like to compile a list of foreign libraries loaded during the life of a SBCL session. What would you recommend? I was thinking about intercepting/instrumenting sb-alien functions. 15:28:50 Could something be loaded that circumvents the sb-alien stuff so that instrumenting it would not catch everything? (If it's possible, is it actually done?) 15:29:05 Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has joined #lisp 15:29:13 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.166.115] has joined #lisp 15:29:37 like, could something load e.g. libdl and then use libdl directly in some way? 15:30:05 Xach: on the C-level, yes of course 15:30:14 on the Lisp level I have no idea 15:32:59 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:36:24 I would like to use socket-server in usocket. It lives in a different file called server.lisp . How do I got about loading it? 15:36:48 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:36:56 Xach: why not just run under strace? 15:37:23 FSVO "just", of course 15:37:53 Blkt [~user@82.84.130.206] has joined #lisp 15:38:03 cmm: There are a lot of options. I'd like to have a lisp list as the result. strace seems like potentially more work to me, but I don't know exactly what I had in mind for sb-alien. 15:40:29 ivan-kanis: look at https://github.com/xach/quickproject maybe 15:41:47 huh, sbcl *really*objects to being ltrace'd 15:42:09 so there goes that idea 15:43:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:44:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:44:37 Xach: if someone calls dlopen and dlsym directly, that would circumvent things 15:45:03 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:03 H4ns: i don't see how quickproject will load the file I want... 15:45:38 ivan-kanis: quickproject is a tool that helps you set up a project. you'll then use asdf to load it. 15:45:42 Xach: instrumenting things with static addresses in the runtime would be problematic as well, but afaik akovalenko has a plan to get rid of the static symbols completely, so... 15:46:09 ivan-kanis: if you just want to load a file from the repl, you could use (load "server.lisp") or (load (compile-file "server.lisp")) 15:46:25 nikodemus: i'm looking just for a list of "libfoo.so" "libbar.so", etc. Can you recommend something? 15:46:39 nikodemus: maybe walk after the fact? does SLAD do that? 15:46:42 Xach: sb-sys:*shared-objects* 15:46:52 nikodemus: is that what slad uses as the basis? 15:47:08 H4ns: thanks 15:48:09 Xach: yes. slad closes them, and on initialization tries to reopen each 15:48:47 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:48:49 i suppose we should actually be exporting shared-object-slot accessors from sb-sys as well 15:49:44 nikodemus: thanks. that looks like a nice start. 15:50:11 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:50:13 Xach: shared-object-namestring is the string dlopen gets, shared-object-pathname is the pathname originally passed to load-shared-object 15:50:13 nikodemus: so anyone that used dl* directly would lose if they wanted to save a core, eh? 15:50:18 yes 15:50:24 good to know, thanks. 15:50:26 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.130.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:00 Is there any way to know if a call to dlopen *would* succeed without actually doing it? 15:53:13 i don't think so 15:53:16 More generally, is there a way to warn someone that they're missing a library? 15:53:42 without trying to open it first? i don't think so 15:55:04 Silent [~silent@bzq-79-179-195-107.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:09 Hello 15:55:34 So I understand LISP is good for coding AIs 15:55:42 Isn't it? 15:56:46 as good as any high level language with a rich feature set 15:57:45 I see. 15:57:53 -!- ruediger_ [~ruediger@93-82-13-243.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:01 I've been using C for 3 years now, and I'd like to get into AI coding 15:58:14 Was wondering if LISP is right for the job. 15:58:58 Silent: quite likely. However we call it Lisp now. 15:59:21 Alright then. 15:59:28 So Lisp is right for the job. 15:59:39 I came across this page - http://www.apl.jhu.edu/~hall/lisp-books.html 15:59:40 i am struggling to get a basic server with usocket, shall i paste what i did so far? 15:59:41 It also has a bunch of features that are handy for certain kinds of AI. 16:00:17 I'm downloading "Lisp by Winston and Horn(3rd edition)" atm 16:00:21 ivan-kanis: you can paste it to paste.lisp.org if you want, but please include all information and be specific about what does not work and how. 16:00:39 ivan-kanis: Maybe you should look at https://github.com/gigamonkey/toot/blob/master/http.lisp around line 196. 16:00:40 I'm talking about an AI that you can talk to 16:00:43 A virtual friend. 16:01:02 Silent: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ # is possibly a better start 16:01:32 not an AI book, but an /execellent/ book that teaches you the language 16:01:38 Silent: I've written a chat bot in Lisp. I found it pleasant. 16:01:56 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:02:04 Practical Common Lisp huh 16:02:19 gigamonkey Is it capable of learning? 16:02:35 gigamonkey is capable of /teaching/, which is a lot harder 16:02:37 Well, not really. I can be taught. 16:02:41 conrad_ [~conrad@96-25-162-104.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:51 Er, it can be taught. Me too, sometimes. 16:02:54 I see. 16:03:09 But that's an unsolved problem which has little to do with what language you use. 16:03:13 My final goal is a bot that you can have full conversations with 16:03:19 Good luck. 16:03:28 Ask it to for example, remind you things 16:03:29 lol thanks 16:03:33 Gonna be HARD. 16:03:38 Be sure to remember us in your Loebner Prize speech. 16:03:54 Silent: after you've that, buy Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence. it's a classic but dated in terms of what AI field looks today. follow up with eg. "Artificial Intelligence, A Modern Approach" 16:04:09 Loner Prize lol 16:04:10 Anyway, Lisp will take care of a bunch of stuff that you'd waste time dealing with in C and allow you to get to the point more quickly where you realize *how* hard a problem this is. 16:04:11 gigamonkey: thanks for the link 16:04:28 nikodemus Thanks, I will 16:04:52 Is the class of object returned by make-string-output-stream specified? I'm not seeing it. 16:05:15 gigamonkey: are you Peter Siebel? 16:05:42 ivan-kanis: Nope. I'm Peter Seibel. 16:05:48 So do you guys recommend starting with a general book rather than an AI-focused one? 16:06:40 gigamonkey: whoops my bad typo 16:06:44 ivan-kanis: ;-) 16:06:57 I guess it's a string-stream, which is probably good enough for me. 16:07:08 gigamonkey: thanks for "Practical Common Lisp" I've read it some years ago 16:07:08 Silent: Where did you get Winston & Horn? 16:07:14 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.11] has joined #lisp 16:08:12 Define "get" please. 16:08:30 Silent: You said you were downloading it. From where are you downloading it? 16:08:53 Second. 16:09:18 http://www.4shared.com/document/5Cn1xDku/_1991__-_LISP__Winston-Horn_3r.html 16:09:28 Now, I have to go for 10 minutes. 16:09:29 brb 16:09:33 -!- Silent is now known as Silent-afk 16:09:43 rumina [~mikko@88-148-145-93.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:10:18 Silent-afk: It's very cheap to buy. 16:10:31 nikodemus, is there any documentation for slime-indentation? 16:10:36 I know 16:10:40 I wonder if the Stanford AI course is going to stay up after it's officially over. 16:10:42 I'd rather have it as a text actually 16:10:53 But I live in Israel, and they don't sell such stuff around here 16:10:58 I'm not really sure if it's working or what to do to tweak it 16:11:04 And I don't have a credit card so I can't buy it online 16:11:20 hba [~hba@187.171.204.21] has joined #lisp 16:11:21 Either way, now really brb. 16:11:30 ok, don't laugh at my lameness -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/125986 16:11:47 yvdriess: as docstrings 16:12:05 doing a "nc localhost 9999" on the console I expect to see "hello" being printed 16:12:18 yep, reading them from your github as we speak 16:12:35 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:41 does adding the contrib to slime-setup automatically change the behavior of for example? 16:12:43 yvdriess: ouch, that tree is stale 16:12:46 let me update it 16:13:34 (everything i have is now merged to upstream slime, and a few things have gone directly there without waiting around in that repo) 16:13:37 ah ok 16:13:45 my slime version is the latest from the cvs though 16:14:48 ivan-kanis: your connection is probably dropped before the data is sent to you. 16:14:58 yvdriess: it doesn't change how TAB is hooked up, but if you have a reasonably normal setup then TAB is hooked up to mode-specific indentation, which it will take over 16:15:02 ivan-kanis: maybe use finish-output instead of force-output. 16:15:03 so yes and no 16:15:25 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.166.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:15:34 ivan-kanis: what do you have the type declaration for/ 16:16:40 H4ns: i just tried finish-output, got the same result 16:16:42 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:53 ivan-kanis: FYI, asdf:system-relative-pathname can help locate resources relative to where a system file is found. 16:17:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:17:15 ivan-kanis: then maybe read something from the socket after you wrote to it? is the connection even accepted? 16:17:39 ivan-kanis: when you changed it to FINISH-OUTPUT, did you stop and restart the server? 16:18:09 nikodemus: no, i re evaled default-tcp-handler 16:18:10 because otherwise the server has reference to the old definition of #'default-tcp-handler, which uses FORCE-OUTPUT... 16:18:12 Now, I have to more. 16:18:18 Thanks for your help guys. 16:18:24 nikodemus: oh 16:18:27 See you later today. 16:18:30 Bye :) 16:18:31 -!- Silent-afk [~silent@bzq-79-179-195-107.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:18:37 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:42 ivan-kanis: with #'default-tcp-handler you grabbed the function object 16:19:27 which doesn't (cannot) change when you re-evaluate the defun 16:19:27 ivan-kanis: you can probably use 'default-tcp-handler instead of #'default-tcp-handler to defer the lookup until the function is actually called. 16:19:46 ayey 16:20:28 ok, i am surprised by this behavior, let me try again 16:21:02 an so it works, yay 16:21:33 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.102.36] has joined #lisp 16:22:33 and setting 'default-tcp-handler let's me redefine the function, even better 16:23:18 Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.217.126] has joined #lisp 16:23:29 so setting a # in front of a function means you can't change it later? Interesting. 16:24:16 nikodemus, describe-variable tells me: indent-line-function is a variable defined in `indent.el'. So I guess it's not mode-specific 16:24:38 oops, pasted the wrong line, value is lisp-indent-line 16:25:16 ivan-kanis: socket-server does not know what types its arguments are in advance. whatever is passed as callback function is called with funcall later on, when a connection is accepted. funcall accepts function objects and symbols as argument. if a symbol is passed, the function definition for that symbol is looked up. 16:25:28 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:26:16 -!- ngz [~user@244.44.76.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:27:38 H4ns: i understand, it's subtle 16:27:56 yvdriess: what's the problem? 16:28:58 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:14 sorry to bother you with that, trying to get slime-indentation to work with my inferior emacs-fu :) 16:29:52 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:21 yvdriess: do you have (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-indentation))? 16:31:40 yep, it's loaded up 16:31:51 but I still seem to have the old slime indentation behavior 16:32:13 what does M-x describe-key TAB say? 16:32:40 indent-for-tab-command 16:32:47 that's ok 16:33:22 i am trying to figure out asdf:system-relative-pathname 16:33:25 any quick way to test if it's different from the default slime behavior? My current common-lisp-style is sbcl 16:33:36 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:33:38 i see it takes two arguments but i can't figure out what they should be 16:33:54 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:34:29 never mind, i should have googled before asking 16:35:49 (load (asdf:system-relative-pathname 'usocket "server.lisp")) is much nicer :D 16:35:52 yvdriess: what's the value of your lisp-indent-function when in a common lisp buffer? 16:36:29 ivan-kanis: it'd be even nicer if you put server.lisp into a new directory rather than colocating it with usocket. 16:36:59 yvdriess: it should be common-lisp-indent-function, defined in slime-cl-indent.el 16:37:10 but... it's part of usocket 16:37:20 Its value is common-lisp-indent-function 16:37:20 that's the one, but defined from lisp-mode.el 16:37:51 yvdriess: sounds like slime-indentation hasn't been loaded after all 16:38:20 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:27 "C-h f" describes the functions it loads though 16:38:51 ivan-kanis: erm, oops. 16:39:29 ivan-kanis: but then, why do you need to load it? it should be loaded when you load usocket anyway? 16:39:36 Loading /Users/yvdriess/dev/slime/contrib/slime-cl-indent.el (source)...done 16:39:40 ivan-kanis: at least here in my lisp, it is loaded automatically. 16:40:05 so it seemed to have been loaded 16:40:31 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.105.255] has joined #lisp 16:40:43 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:17 yvdriess: where does your lisp-indent-function get set? 16:43:04 it only mentiones defined in lisp-mode.el 16:43:18 i mean your .emacs 16:43:26 do you set it manually at some point? 16:45:40 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:11 damn, you're right 16:46:25 there were some old indentation bindings buried in the .emacs 16:46:58 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:48:39 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:50 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:45 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:49:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:49:57 nikodemus, where does lisp-indent-function get set in slime-indentation? 16:51:14 yvdriess: slime sets it elsewhere, iirc 16:52:06 (i did just verify that a minimal emacs with only slime/ and slime/contrib/ added to load path, and (require 'slime) and (slime-setup ...) gives me slime-indentation that works properly) 16:52:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:53:02 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:53:44 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:54:27 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:09 ok, I will dig out the problem with my configuration, thanks for your time! 16:55:37 -!- rumina [~mikko@88-148-145-93.bb.dnainternet.fi] has left #lisp 16:57:02 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58:00 no problem. if you still can't get it to work, fall back to a minimal config you can lisppaste, and i can try to reproduc 16:58:01 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:00:08 is it compliant for listen to only work on character streams? 17:00:34 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:02:53 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:32 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-98-217-184-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:05:19 H4ns: you're right it's loaded with usocket, slime made think otherwize 17:07:30 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:07:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 17:08:06 right, another slime-setup was buried somewhere else 17:08:14 lesson learned, keep your .emacs clean 17:08:15 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:47 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 17:09:12 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:09:22 Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.227.217.126] has joined #lisp 17:09:47 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 17:10:02 How do you go about debugging an asd that insists on the wrong path for a file component? 17:10:54 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 17:11:15 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:49 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.217.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:17:12 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-170-230.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:10 stratobacker_a [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:02 -!- stratobacker_a [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:21:11 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.11] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:21:49 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:21:52 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:19 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:05 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.102.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:26:36 me345 [~me345@adsl-71-131-134-78.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:01 Phoodus [~foo@63-235-81-162.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:39 ravster [~user@199.243.206.58] has joined #lisp 17:39:43 Hello all 17:39:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:40:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:43:17 vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@178.125.218.158] has joined #lisp 17:43:29 rtoym: how wrong? 17:45:06 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 17:49:28 -!- ravster [~user@199.243.206.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:49 -!- conrad_ [~conrad@96-25-162-104.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:51:52 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:50 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 17:59:33 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:02:05 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 18:02:40 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:39 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-223-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:03:54 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has joined #lisp 18:05:40 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:05:44 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 18:06:40 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 18:07:41 bozhidar [~user@173-160-196-25-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:43 drsnuggle [~drsnuggle@dyndsl-085-016-063-235.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 18:07:50 -!- bozhidar [~user@173-160-196-25-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:53 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.11] has joined #lisp 18:09:58 oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:21 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:13:14 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.253] has joined #lisp 18:13:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:16:18 morning 18:16:36 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:41 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:18:23 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:50 morning. 18:19:04 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:19:26 morning 18:20:28 mooglenorph [~marco@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 18:22:18 how can I access the condition being signalled from a restart? 18:22:52 tyson1 [~Ian@CPE0026f3374420-CM0026f337441d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:09 how can I access the (condition being signalled) from a restart? 18:23:09 vozhyk_: what kind of form did you use to set up the restart? 18:23:20 restart-bind 18:23:54 you meant this? 18:26:20 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:26:59 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:59 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-103-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:27:16 I use the *config-key-unsets* variable currently. (let ((*config-key-unsets* (cons condition *config-key-unsets*))) (signal ...)) 18:27:30 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:46 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:17 ravster [~user@199.243.206.58] has joined #lisp 18:31:20 Hello all 18:32:55 The asdf info-page says that they provide backward-compatibility using *central-registry*. It also says that this will take precedence over the new mechanism they have. Quicklisp seems to be putting itself in the *central-registry*. does this mean that I can't use the new system? 18:33:14 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:33:22 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 18:33:40 ravster: No. 18:33:53 ravster: quicklisp only loads one system through the central registry, the quicklisp software itself. 18:34:06 ravster: you can still use the new config system if you want. 18:34:08 vozhyk_: restarts get their argument (directly or indirectly) via invoke-restart. Typically you'd set up a handler for the condition that would invoke the restart. At that point you can pass along the condition if yo uwant. 18:34:56 Xach: Ok, thanks. 18:35:33 -!- tyson1 [~Ian@CPE0026f3374420-CM0026f337441d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 18:36:33 gigamonkey: But if I invoke the restart interactively? 18:37:06 gigamonkey: (with SLIME) 18:40:34 Does anyone happen to know if it's possible to make tcp connections in the client in the "web" nowadays? 18:41:11 drdo: with websockets. 18:41:35 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:41:35 Dunno about that. Typically interactively invoked restarts take no args. You can use an :interactive keyword to restart-case to set up arguments to be passed to the restart. But off the top of my head I can't think of the best way to pass the condition. 18:41:44 Or even if that's a good idea. What are you actually trying to do? 18:43:00 pkhuong: but can i do it to arbitrary hosts ? 18:43:06 no clue. 18:43:21 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 18:43:25 so lost 18:43:59 gigamonkeys: I want to set a config parameter to default in the STORE-DEFAULT restart. 18:44:46 gigamonkey: I want to set a config parameter to default in the STORE-DEFAULT restart. Sorry about the name 18:46:06 drdo: no. 18:46:12 trebor_home [~email@dslb-178-004-067-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:14 H4ns: Is there an alternative? I mainly want to connect two clients together without pointlessly routing everything through the server 18:47:37 drdo: you could use a signed java applet. 18:47:43 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:47:59 drdo: consider nat routers in between. it may be harder than you expect. 18:48:11 I'm praying for ipv6 18:48:38 also, upnp 18:49:19 i'm guessing pretty much every home commercial router supports upnp these days 18:49:21 drdo: then, talk to you in 10 years or so? :) 18:49:24 H4ns: the server could provide the nat punch-through ;) 18:49:54 pkhuong: right. it is possible, yet it is not trivial. 18:49:56 pkhuong: I was thinking about that for a whole 5min, how does one do that? 18:50:09 drdo: you read and ask on appropriate fora. 18:50:28 waltwhite_ [~waltwhite@ABordeaux-256-1-94-32.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:50:34 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@ABordeaux-256-1-98-74.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:50:34 -!- waltwhite_ is now known as waltwhite 18:50:38 drdo: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Session_Traversal_Utilities_for_NAT may be a starting point. 18:51:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:51:56 vozhyk_: and why do you need the condition? 18:52:32 drdo: sorry for the german url, stun is your keyword. 18:52:49 gigamonkey: to know the variable's name. 18:52:59 I'd expect that a case like this you would signal a condition to indicate that a certain parameter was not provided and immediately around that signal would be a restart to use the default value. Then the question is where to get the default value. I'd assume that'd be in some dynamic variable. 18:53:21 Right. 18:53:28 -!- ravster [~user@199.243.206.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:31 t 18:54:42 joghurt [~user@xdsl-188-155-236-158.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:54:52 -!- joghurt is now known as jojogurt 18:55:57 vozhyk_: I'm slow this morning but why not something like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125989 18:56:26 I.e. at the point where the restart is defined you know the parameter that is missing. 18:57:25 You could obviously put it into the condition in order to provide information the user can use to decide whether to invoke the restart but I don't think you need to pass it to the restart. 18:58:15 -!- jojogurt [~user@xdsl-188-155-236-158.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:29 pnq [~nick@AC811898.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:45 gigamonkey: Perfect. I didn't think about that earlier. Thank you 18:59:57 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-230-13.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:57 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-230-13.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:59:57 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 19:00:08 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:19 Sylvain Ageneau here? 19:01:57 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 19:03:37 vozhyk_: cool. 19:06:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:57 anyone use restas? 19:11:43 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:12:01 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:12:56 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 19:15:04 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:08 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:15:42 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:16:53 -!- drsnuggle [~drsnuggle@dyndsl-085-016-063-235.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:46 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:19:15 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 19:22:18 -!- Pepe__ is now known as Pepe_ 19:27:25 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:06 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 19:29:51 _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 19:32:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:32:12 ssd7 [~user@c-24-19-51-45.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:18 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:08 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:02 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-103-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34:35 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1F41.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:35:53 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:36:30 -!- ssd7 [~user@c-24-19-51-45.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:47 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:37:28 benny [~benny@i577A7AAF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:52 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:06 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #lisp 19:43:25 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 19:51:19 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:50 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:16 -!- mooglenorph [~marco@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:01:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:02:45 entrix_ [~entrix@93-80-222-245.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:04:00 does anyone use an lisp-implementation to create android-apps? 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20:50:00 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:50:05 puchacz: M-RET 20:50:11 thx 20:50:20 :) 20:50:32 _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 20:50:35 No problem 20:50:40 very handy 20:50:47 indeed 20:51:00 is current slime doc up to date? 20:51:15 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:18 keybindings I mean 20:51:23 *Xach* does not know 20:51:28 nw 20:52:18 _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 20:52:56 puchacz: you can use C-h m to see the current bindings 20:53:08 yup 20:53:29 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:42 oh sooo much bit rot 20:55:49 software takes way too long to die 20:56:34 thanks for all the help 20:59:38 Xach: I'm again enjoying splitting up some of my large personal libraries into smaller more cohesive ones knowing that that's okay thanks to Quicklisp. 20:59:43 spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:51 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:00:17 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:57 rgrau [~user@159.Red-79-159-33.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:59 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:21 -!- `micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:31 `micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:57 -!- `micro is now known as Guest87499 21:07:15 woo 21:09:33 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:11:23 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:14:15 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928224103]] 21:15:54 jaimef: referring to anything in particular on the bit-rot comment? 21:17:37 ruediger_ [~ruediger@93-82-9-79.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:17:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:48 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:17:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:18:23 Bahman [~user@2.146.44.190] has joined #lisp 21:18:28 Hi all! 21:20:01 hi 21:20:15 hi 21:25:07 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@108.54.29.185] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 21:26:35 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:40 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:27:56 ifnspifn [b85bccad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.91.204.173] has joined #lisp 21:28:20 Anyone know if an idiomatic way of reducing a list of booleans with 'or'? 21:28:22 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:28 ifnspifn: (some #'identity list) is one option 21:30:08 hm, (some #'or '(t t t nil)) gives 'The function OR is undefined" 21:30:48 That is why I used IDENTITY and not OR. 21:31:22 ah, I thought you were being generic :P 21:31:54 interesting.. so is identity just the 'or' concept for booleans? 21:32:16 Nope. 21:32:42 see http://l1sp.org/cl/some and http://l1sp.org/cl/identity 21:33:00 and http://lisptips.com/post/11608641449/how-do-i-apply-and 21:34:01 stickycake [~stickycak@108.54.29.185] has joined #lisp 21:34:05 very cool, so (some #'identity list) is kind of like a lazy eval of (or list) 21:34:46 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-66-56.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:34:55 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-51-181.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:59 -!- Guest50676 is now known as frozencemetery 21:35:43 OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 21:35:50 That is not really how I would put it. 21:39:45 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@108.54.29.185] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 21:39:59 haha, alright then :) well, it will effectively supplant that for me, so I'll use it anyhow. Thanks very much! 21:40:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:40 oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:45 Out of curiosity, why can't you reduce using a macro as a predicate? Because macros don't evaluate the code they produce? 21:41:33 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:42:30 oconnore1 [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:52 ifnspifn: because a macro transforms one bit of source into another. 21:43:04 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:43:10 -!- oconnore1 is now known as oconnore 21:43:16 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:43:25 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:45:08 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:45:22 I think I understand.. 21:45:50 oconnore1 [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:24 pnq [~nick@ACA257BD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56:35 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-223-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:36 -!- Bahman [~user@2.146.44.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:48 oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:12 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 22:04:16 -!- oconnore1 [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:45 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:12 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:18 *Xach* is so close to getting his github atom feed working 22:08:40 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:19 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:02 oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:07 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:46 Xach: does that mean you have code for generating ATOM? 22:17:51 So are lisp programs meant to be compiled and run? Or are they meant to be run from within an interpreter, like "sbcl(load "prog.lisp")(run-prog)" 22:18:48 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:58 howeyc: that example is compiled and run. 22:19:50 oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:02 gigamonkey: bare minimum for my purpose. done with html-template currently. 22:20:30 oh, I'm used to like gcc, where you compile source and get a brand new executable, it's not like that? 22:20:53 howeyc: not usually. 22:21:01 howeyc: most development is done interactively, mutating the lisp process's state with definitions. It's often sufficient to also do that for applications, but you can also save a dump of the process's state to an independent executable. 22:21:40 oh, ok 22:22:18 Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 22:26:26 Xach: speaking of which, Manifest now depends on a couple new monkeylib libraries I just put on github. (They are actually parts of monkeylib-foo which is well on its way to being deprecated.) 22:28:52 marsell [~marsell@120.19.179.140] has joined #lisp 22:29:05 i'll check 'em out 22:30:43 howeyc by default sbcl compiles the source to machine code on load btw. see (disassemble 'function) 22:33:30 -!- H4ns [57bd7c0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.124.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:34:51 kennyd: Oh! now I get why my example was example of compile, thanks. 22:35:21 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:40:47 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.227.217.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:48:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49:01 The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:01 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:49:55 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:54:02 -!- The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 22:54:04 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:48 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:53 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:25 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA257BD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:39 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:06:54 -!- OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:07:20 -!- ifnspifn [b85bccad@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.91.204.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:07:56 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 23:08:04 Hi! Has anyone used cl-emb? I'm trying to print object's slot inside <%  %> Is it possible in some easy way? 23:08:25 I've found work-around <% (my-package:bar (getf env :foo)) %> But it is not so nice as <% (bar @var foo)%> 23:10:17 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.11] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:13:52 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:45 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 23:18:04 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 23:21:51 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:30 are there any known implementations of lambda calculus? (untyped or not) 23:24:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:25:11 acml [~user@217.131.110.123] has joined #lisp 23:25:49 -!- acml [~user@217.131.110.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:00 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:29:28 nowhere_man: It's a mathematical concept, not an API. Most functional programming languages & Lisps are derived from the lambda calculus concepts. Wikipedia probably has some nice tables about it. 23:33:33 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 23:33:46 I konw what lambda calculus is, I'm actually teaching it 23:34:39 I'm wondering if anyone already implemented common strategies like NOR or AOR on some kinds of lambda calculus, especially plain ol' untyped lambda calculus 23:35:12 nowhere_man: I vaguely recall that Lisp in Small Pieces had some scheme code to implement something that may have been a sort of lambda calculus interpreter. 23:35:21 But I read it years ago so could be totally misremembering. 23:37:12 Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.227.217.126] has joined #lisp 23:37:14 damn, I already heard so many good things about this book, but even used it still cost a fortune, as far as books go 23:37:53 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 23:39:26 and of course my local university library wouldn't have it (although I recently stumbled on the Art of MOP there!) 23:41:01 -!- jsoft [~josh@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:41:52 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:49 nowhere_man: it might have the original French version. 23:48:12 nowhere_man: the haskell community has developed a game to visualize reduction rules, and a couple implementations on the web, iirc. And, there's always unlambda. 23:49:25 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:44 rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has joined #lisp 23:51:02 pkhuong: totally forgot it's actually a translation, but they don't have the French either 23:51:34 pkhuong: and while I find unlambda really fun, my goal is definitely not to disgust my students ;-) 23:53:17 pkhuong: a quick Google search didn't return anything about the game you mention, would you remember a project name? 23:54:30 See . 23:57:15 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]