00:00:09 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:00:48 How are multiple value returns/bindings compiled by SBCL? 00:04:22 Ralith: it depends. If there's no global call involved, and the number of values is known, it's the same as binding a few variables. Otherwise, there's a register for the number of return values, registers for the first few return values, stack for the rest. on x86[-64] the carry flag is used to denote whether the number of return values differs from 1. 00:04:42 kk, thanks 00:06:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:07:55 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 00:09:07 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 00:09:33 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:44 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A426F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:04 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:55 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:13 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 00:15:29 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has joined #lisp 00:15:59 pkhuong: so, just to be clear, things like a bunch of nested (multiple-value-bind (x y z) (progn .... (values a b c)) ...) produce very efficient code? 00:16:08 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:16:13 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-94-105.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:16:13 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:16:13 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:16:13 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.38.199] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:16:13 -!- df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:16:13 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:16:14 -!- limetree [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:16:14 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:16:27 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ArchMonkey] 00:16:28 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 00:17:09 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:20:23 df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 00:20:46 limetree [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:09 Ralith: yes. 00:21:10 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-94-105.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:21:17 great :) 00:21:26 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:03 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:04 also: calling eval on something like '(lambda (x) ...) (which does not close over anything) produces a fully compiled function, right? 00:24:25 wait, nevermind. 00:24:25 depends on *evaluator-mode*. Usually, yes. 00:24:27 found the docs I needed 00:25:41 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:42 allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has joined #lisp 00:25:53 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:32:03 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:33:08 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 00:36:09 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:37:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:37:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 00:38:59 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:07 what's the best way to inform SBCL of the type of an anonymous form? 01:00:17 clhs the 01:00:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_the.htm 01:00:22 Ralith: that what you want? 01:01:08 I thought that just added an assertion? 01:02:14 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813EBD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:57 Ralith: I guess that depends on the compiler. I don't know what SBCL does with it. 01:03:20 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-92.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:25 kk 01:03:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 01:03:52 I thought you could use that so that SBCL will choose optimized functions at compile-time. EG (+ (the fixnum foo) (the fixnum bar)) will use %TWO-FIXNUM-+ or whatever, rather than doing runtime dispatching. 01:04:00 But I don't know enough about SBCL to say for sure. 01:04:50 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-22-71.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:09:01 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:11:11 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:14:11 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:14:28 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:15:53 Ralith: you get both an assertion, and the consequences of the assertion. 01:17:16 codelurker [~codelurke@65.88.2.2] has joined #lisp 01:17:26 okay, cool 01:18:29 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:18:43 is there any way to find out where a call like sb-kernel:%single-float is being triggered? 01:18:54 (from profiler output) 01:22:05 the profiler gives you callers as well 01:25:25 kk 01:26:43 -!- tomaw is now known as 13WAAIF5K 01:28:08 Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has joined #lisp 01:28:10 cnl [~cnl@95.106.38.199] has joined #lisp 01:28:55 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:29:29 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC872C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:39 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:55 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p508293AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:30:06 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:30:35 -!- nhonhonho_ [~nhonhonho@201.86.47.201.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:23 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC872C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:31:24 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:24 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C911.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:31 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@189.26.25.125.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:32:00 H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC872C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:03 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C911.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:38 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 01:34:04 -!- H4ns` [~user@p4FFC872C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:37 H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC8C4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:44 daniel__ [~daniel@p508293AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:10 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC872C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:41:29 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.20.82] has joined #lisp 01:43:22 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:19 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:13 codelurker1 [~codelurke@65.88.2.2] has joined #lisp 01:46:27 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@65.88.2.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:25 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 01:50:52 -!- ihyoyoung_ [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:10 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.18] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 01:56:53 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:57:38 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1987] 02:02:08 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:02:10 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:04:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:05:00 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-153-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:06:34 I don't remember who complained about dwim.hu not working on firefox, but I've fixed it (on 6.0) 02:09:30 hm 02:09:46 sbcl takes a VERY long time to compile this (admittedly gigantic) function 02:09:46 -!- codelurker1 [~codelurke@65.88.2.2] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 02:09:52 codelurker [~codelurke@65.88.2.2] has joined #lisp 02:10:23 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@65.88.2.2] has quit [Client Quit] 02:11:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:12:26 40 seconds 02:12:27 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:36 wait, what? 02:12:42 "7,356 lambdas converted" 02:12:49 there should only have been a single lambda o.O 02:13:01 half of that was in GC, too? O.o 02:13:12 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:14:09 a lot of things are internally converted to lambdas and then optimised into something else 02:15:06 I imagine this includes let, let*, and/or m-v-b 02:15:12 because those are the only nontrivial structures I'm using 02:15:22 any way I can skip that step? 02:15:29 or rather, help SBCL do it faster? 02:15:42 no. It's also likely not the source of the compile time. 02:15:45 assuming that's even reasonably likely to be worthwhile 02:15:47 What SBCL version are you using? 02:15:47 okay then 02:15:51 .50 02:16:11 50% GC time especially confuses me 02:16:17 if you bump up compilation-speed and leave speed to the default, you might see some improvement. 02:16:52 why would it be confusing? compilation is mostly a lot of symbolic computation, and those tend to cons. 02:17:14 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C911.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:37 I suppose. 02:18:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-83-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:18:48 also, according to time, SBCL has introduced consing into the function 02:19:01 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 02:19:38 kilobytes worth, in fact 02:19:51 which is a problem, as this is called in a very tight loop 02:20:03 potentially millions of iterations 02:20:35 pkhuong: (optimize speed (compilation-speed 3)) actually took *longer* 02:21:12 Ralith: that's not leaving speed to the default. 02:21:17 oh 02:21:20 that's what you meant 02:22:42 (optimize (compilation-speed 3)) is faster by an insignificant amount 02:23:01 and proces a function that's about five times slower 02:23:18 and conses yet more 02:24:09 yup, that's what increasing compilation-speed do. 02:24:20 As for the consing, well, check your code. 02:25:24 here's an example of the code generated: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/467514/ 02:25:32 I don't see anything that I expect to dynamically allocate in there 02:28:03 declaring the argument types would help 02:28:52 yeah, I just noticed that; helped, but did not completely eliminate the issue 02:29:06 that said, what's the relationship between argument type and allocation? 02:29:22 unless you're on x86-64, passing single floats as arguments will cons 02:29:32 if ensure-nonzero isn't declared inline, that's going to hurt. 02:30:13 it is declared inline 02:30:22 but SBCL is still giving me notes for it 02:30:49 i might be able to help if I had the definition 02:31:00 and you'll want to declare the range of the arguments better as well. 02:31:12 Otherwise, mod of single float values can be pretty horrific to compute. 02:31:39 (declare (type (single-float -1.0 1.0)))? 02:31:45 for instance. 02:31:46 had no effect 02:32:03 code is at (defun ensure-nonzero (x) 02:32:03 (declare (type single-float x)) 02:32:03 (if (= 0.0 x) 02:32:03 single-float-epsilon 02:32:05 er 02:32:08 wrong paste buffer 02:32:12 https://github.com/Ralith/quest/blob/master/src/random-art.lisp 02:32:18 ensure-nonzero is on line 90 02:32:53 and you'll probably get better code from something like (- x (* (ffloor x modulus) modulus)). 02:33:33 that particular formula was copied from elsewhere and I wasn't entirely sure of the semantics of fp mod; thanks 02:33:46 I don't know that that's what you want either. 02:34:42 You'll have to verify yourself. mod for signed values isn't uniformly defined. 02:34:51 hm. 02:35:18 And you have to declaim inline-ness *before* defining the function. 02:35:22 ooh. 02:35:29 thanks. 02:35:46 the mod was taken from python code, which just uses python's % 02:38:30 what might I be able to do to speed up compilation? 02:38:49 looks like you want ftruncate, not ffloor. 02:39:01 Not that it's going to help much. 02:39:30 omegapunkt [~textual@60.234.20.206] has joined #lisp 02:40:15 ? 02:40:18 You could use the FFI to call fmod directly, I guess. 02:41:55 there are no circumstances under which that happens naturally? 02:43:02 "that" being? 02:44:15 a FFI call to fmod or something similar 02:44:34 (hm, any way to inline ftruncate?) 02:45:16 nope. 02:46:28 why does ftruncate warn me about float-to-pointer (which I assume to be the alloc for float argument pass) sin doesn't? 02:46:36 when sin doesn't* 02:48:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:49:15 -!- waaaaargh__ [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d0494cd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:51:31 sin has been the target of more optimization effort than ftruncate. 02:52:25 okay then. 02:55:14 I guess it gets inlined? 02:55:52 You could go with 02:56:25 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:46 oo, thanks! 02:56:56 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:22 yates [~yates@nc-71-54-141-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:53 any thoughts/opinions on the gnu clisp implementation? 02:59:36 isn't it kinda dead? 02:59:36 versus, e.g., sbcl? 02:59:45 oh? i didn't know. 02:59:57 sbcl is capable of producing much faster binaries, certainly, but that can be wrt. most implementations 03:00:03 can be said* 03:00:21 are you sure it's dead? 03:00:49 current version is over a year old 03:00:57 http://www.clisp.org/ 03:01:50 that's not what I understand the GNU implementation to be. 03:02:55 what do you mean? 03:03:30 this is the GNU implementation: http://www.gnu.org/s/gcl/ 03:03:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:58 They're both GNU projects, I think 03:04:00 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-83-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:25 clisp isn't a gnu project. It just got infected by way of readline. 03:05:06 pkhuong: then why do they say in big letters near the top "This is GNU CLISP" http://www.clisp.org/? 03:05:53 ok, sorry, the wife is begging me to come to beg (not a joke!) 03:05:55 it is GNU clisp. It's not a GNU project. 03:06:00 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.103] has joined #lisp 03:06:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.103] has quit [Changing host] 03:06:00 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:06:02 good night - thanks for the info 03:06:07 i'll read more in the morning. 03:09:27 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:59 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:15:50 daniel [~daniel@p5B326A06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:06 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p508293AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:20:16 I'm trying to run a SBCL binary package on a system with an outdated SBCL install. How can I get it to not load /usr/share/common-lisp/systems/asdf-binary-locations.asd? 03:21:20 nvm 03:23:07 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:33:07 sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:17 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:36:19 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:39:43 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:40:43 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:41:39 yabber [~captain@c-98-203-196-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:22 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:45 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:05 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:46:15 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:46:20 I hope I'm not breaching any convention by asking this, but does anyone have any advice for people trying to learn lisp from a C++ background? 03:46:51 (particularly common lisp) 03:47:24 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 03:50:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:50:33 start with "Practical Common Lisp" ( http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ ) and keep in mind that Lisp is different from C++ 03:50:41 yabber: I kind of did that  PCL is a good book, I think. But it came a bit late to help me ;) 03:52:20 Thanks, I guess I'll just keep plowing through it 03:55:35 -!- yabber [~captain@c-98-203-196-151.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:02:28 -!- omegapunkt [~textual@60.234.20.206] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:02:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:32 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:16:53 whee 04:17:08 pkhuong: if you were curious, this is what you were helping me with: http://demented.no-ip.org:8080/art 04:23:56 cute. reminds me of the early 90's. 04:30:31 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.202.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:50 omegapunkt [~textual@125-236-232-13.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:33:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has joined #lisp 04:34:31 -!- cheier is now known as cheier^ 04:35:08 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:35:22 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37:16 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:26 -!- nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@189.26.25.125.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:42:04 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:45:18 ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 04:47:49 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-40-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:34 -!- cheier^ is now known as cheier 04:50:47 pkhuong: if GNU clisp is not a GNU project, why is it called "GNU" clisp? 04:51:59 I know there was a kerfuffle about its use of readline, maybe the "GNU" thing is just a concession? 04:53:08 Bike: are you saying GNU clisp stole the "readline" component from the GNU project? 04:53:17 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:53:23 Stole? No, of course not... let me find the mailings. 04:54:11 http://clisp.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clisp/clisp/doc/Why-CLISP-is-under-GPL 04:54:50 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:35 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:35 oh - it uses readline in its REPL ? 04:56:38 hi people. 04:57:19 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 04:57:59 I don't know, but I would assume it's something like that. 05:00:22 yates: clisp can use readline, but it's not required. 05:01:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:01:34 rtoym: how would clisp's REPL function without readline? 05:02:32 yates: Just like any other shell without readline. readline isn't required for a repl. That's just a (very nice) convenience. 05:03:39 i see. 05:04:40 so if haible had provided clisp with a non-readline-repl, why did he have to call it GNU clisp? 05:04:40 ccl and cmucl don't have readline. The repl works fine there. 05:05:01 Isn't that explained in the link? 05:05:14 tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.31] has joined #lisp 05:06:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:08:51 is there anyway to get readline feature in sbcl ? 05:09:10 kushal: use slime? 05:09:19 yates, ok 05:09:40 anyone here used cl-routes? 05:09:52 kushal: Look at linedit? 05:09:54 for some reason ":(x)x:(y)" in a template is making it explode 05:13:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:59 -!- rolando [~user@206.145.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:16:48 gigamonkey: around? 05:19:30 i don't understand the discussion about libgmp.a 05:19:31 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 05:20:17 if it's under GPL, isn't it free? 05:20:21 Riqpe [riqpe@hella.insomnia.fi] has joined #lisp 05:20:34 if it's free, why would haible state "Other pepole shouldn't get it for free."? 05:20:39 -!- Riqpe [riqpe@hella.insomnia.fi] has left #lisp 05:20:42 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.31] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 05:20:52 slyrus_: yo 05:20:59 hey 05:21:36 I wanted to get your thoughts on: https://github.com/slyrus/iso-media/blob/master/binary-data-extensions.lisp 05:22:19 some of that is pretty project-specific, but some stuff might be useful in other contexts 05:22:29 yates: Well, the opportunity cost of using GPL stuff is that it means your own stuff has to be under GPL, yes? 05:22:49 gigamonkey: actually, it's been a long time since I've looked at this, so I figured having you look at it would motivate me to do so :) 05:23:47 Bike: yes 05:23:48 Heh. Looks more or less fine to me. Do you have examples of using it? Preferably as actual examples as opposed to deep in the bowels of some real code. 05:24:01 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rbihfrmljlwzsemp] has joined #lisp 05:24:10 no, just what's in the iso-media.lisp file 05:24:20 The dynamic one is the least obvious to me what it's for. 05:24:30 Maybe even putting some brief comments in that file would be good. 05:24:53 comments? what are those? 05:25:25 Those funny lines emacs colors differently so you can more easily ignore them. 05:25:33 oh, thanks! 05:26:23 Anyway, I'm off to bed--got to get up in the morning to take my kid to her first day of kindergarten. 05:26:31 I think :dynamic is some sort of runtime type identification thing 05:26:36 ok, congratulations! 05:27:04 I'll catch you one of these days soon and continue the discussion if you've got time 05:27:21 *slyrus_* needs to dust off his lisp-hacking skillz 05:30:10 Bike: oh, he means that if libgmp.a wasn't under GPL, then someone else could use it for free without having to make their own code free? 05:30:48 I guess? I don't know all the background. 05:31:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:31:21 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:32:15 gmp is LGPL. 05:33:45 -!- Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:01 licensing issues make my brain hurt 05:34:16 going back to bed. goodnight rtoym, Bike, pkhuong et al. 05:35:11 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:36:06 IIRC, gmp used to be GPL. 05:36:14 yates: Aloha. 05:37:21 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-92.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:45:09 rtoym: night, ray. 05:49:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:57 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:12 -!- yates [~yates@nc-71-54-141-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 05:55:35 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:06 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:07:50 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 06:08:25 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:02 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:14:07 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:16:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:52 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:18:21 good morning 06:18:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.198.239] has joined #lisp 06:21:25 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 06:25:34 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:28:56 slash_ [~unknown@p54A8D491.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:52 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-swbynoxjllbnjqua] has joined #lisp 06:38:58 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:39:40 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:45:14 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54A8D491.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 06:46:17 sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:42 cfy` [~cfy@125.123.48.132] has joined #lisp 06:52:56 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:27 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.238.185] has joined #lisp 07:01:11 yakov [~yakov@83.136.241.54] has joined #lisp 07:01:37 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:56 hans` [~hans@p5DDBBC61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:39 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:24:33 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:30:25 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:33:26 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDD198.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:17 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-144-86.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:45 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 07:36:46 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.48.132] has quit [Changing host] 07:36:46 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 07:36:49 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has joined #lisp 07:37:14 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:39:34 Can hunchentoot deal with request handlers taking a long time to complete? 07:39:47 Ralith: yes. 07:39:53 -!- hans` is now known as H4ns 07:40:56 Ralith: what do you mean by "deal with" anyway? 07:41:08 H4ns: handle other requests. 07:41:15 while the first one is still going. 07:41:28 a quick test suggests it can't, at least not with the default config 07:41:41 Xach: awesome post about rewindinbg 07:41:44 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:41:46 rewinding, i mean. 07:41:50 the ql distro 07:41:55 Ralith: are you using a threaded lisp? 07:41:55 Ralith: if you are running single threaded, only one request can be dealt with at any one time. 07:42:04 flip214: I'm using SBCL. 07:42:09 H4ns: how do I tell it to use multiple threads? 07:42:33 flip214: sbcl on 32 bit linux, that is, so yes. 07:42:39 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has joined #lisp 07:42:42 Ralith: it does so by default if you are running on a multithreaded lisp. 07:43:01 H4ns: then why are my requests blocking eachother? 07:43:19 are you using a common resource, like a stream, database handle, or something like that? 07:43:30 Ralith: i don't know. paste a self-contained example demonstrating the unwanted behavior. 07:43:53 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 07:44:20 if (find :SB-THREAD *FEATURES*) is not nil, check if you are using the single-thread taskmaster? 07:44:20 flip214: not as far as I can tell. 07:45:35 Inode: returns that symbol. Trying to look up how to determine my task master... 07:46:59 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:50:20 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-94-185.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:51:44 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:24 Inode: one-thread-per-connection-taskmaster 07:52:55 Ralith: ok, so you are not using the single threaded taskmaster and multiple request should be served in parallel 07:53:19 dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:53:20 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-41-2.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:35 Ralith: try adding a handler that sleeps for a while and one that responds immediately, use wget to experiment. 07:54:17 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.128] has joined #lisp 07:55:22 H4ns: hm, those work in parallel 07:55:25 weird. 07:55:57 Ralith: paste the hanging handlers? 07:56:00 Ralith: what does the handler that apparently blocks hunchentoot do? where does it spend the long time? 07:56:14 or, perhaps even easier, interrupt while they're hanging and look at the backtrace? 07:56:34 H4ns: it hits the CPU intensively to render some procedural graphics 07:56:46 flip214: I'm not sure how to interrupt another thread. 07:57:23 flip214: hanging handler is just a callout to the rendering lib that passes it the connection stream 07:57:23 Ralith: does it "hit the cpu" in lisp or in foreign code? 07:57:27 H4ns: lisp. 07:58:11 Ralith: ok, so then it seems as if preempting your cpu intensive thread does not work as expected. 07:58:11 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:39 Ralith: try whether another thread that is unrelated to hunchentoot is able to preempt the calculation. 07:58:41 H4ns: it certainly seems implausible for that one thread to be holding primacy for several seconds, considering that my web browser is running on the same CPU and displaying the image as it is rendered. 07:59:09 alright, one minute 08:01:03 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:41 (bordeaux-threads:make-thread (lambda () (print "test"))) successfully outputs test while the apparently-blocking request is running. 08:03:41 hm, interesting. i don't have an idea what this could be. maybe you can try isolating the problem into a self-contained test case. 08:04:49 Ralith: (sb-thread:list-all-threads) to see what is active, and then (sb-thread:interrupt-thread #'break) to get it into the debugger 08:05:07 where might be something like (third (sb-thread:list-all-threads)) ... 08:05:08 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Off to sleep. God is good!] 08:07:53 kk 08:08:10 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has joined #lisp 08:09:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:10:54 Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 08:11:53 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:11:55 -!- Odditus is now known as Oddity 08:14:11 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:19 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:14:38 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:48 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:18:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:09 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770DCF.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:22:26 TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:22:45 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:43 .Hunchentoot..whats with that name? Sounds like a circus act. 08:24:32 ZabaQ: it is a frank zappa reference 08:27:51 ZabaQ: it's the name of a spider in a rock-opera that Zappa wrote. Drakma (the matching HTTP client) was an evil queen in the same opera. 08:29:00 Ah. 08:31:57 I love it when software names are totally unrelated to what they actually do :3 08:32:44 Also: Nobody bitches about apache, and that doesn't really describe the functionality of the product very well either :] 08:33:25 phryk: who bitched about hunchentoot? 08:34:19 actually, i like the name because it works well with google. i hate it when people give their software generic names that don't work well with search engines. 08:35:02 -!- benny [~benny@i577A20A2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:35:09 Lots of people bitch about apache. 08:35:55 *tempire* doesn't like apache at all 08:36:08 You could call your next project "wanglesock". 08:36:23 Zhivago: *noted* 08:36:49 -!- markskil` [~user@host86-152-37-158.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:37:07 phryk: well the full name "apache webserver" deriving from "a patchy webserver" is not too far off 08:37:34 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:38:25 markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 08:38:33 For the record, I wasn't bitching, just curious..not a Zappa fan, personally..:-) 08:38:49 C-Keen: Ah okay. 08:39:05 ZabaQ: Me neither, but the name sounds awesomely ridiculous :) 08:45:12 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 08:48:36 -!- OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:49:13 OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:43 -!- OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:54:12 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:54:17 OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:56:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:56:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:56:13 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:57:33 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Client Quit] 08:57:43 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:00:04 jdz [~jdz@host96-107-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:01:03 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:07:35 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-104-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 09:07:55 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.128] has joined #lisp 09:08:55 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:08 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d0494cd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:52 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 09:13:42 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:13:42 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 09:13:42 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:14:33 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:44 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:20:00 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:20:11 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 09:22:56 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.238.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:24:36 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 09:25:20 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-150-88-186.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:26:09 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-2-215.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:26:20 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.238.185] has joined #lisp 09:26:27 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:28:51 astePC [~astePC@unaffiliated/aste] has joined #lisp 09:29:27 What extension should Lisp files have? 09:29:44 .el? 09:30:01 if you're asking about emacs lisp, go to #emacs 09:30:30 .l or .lisp, emacs lisp has .el, scheme has .scm 09:30:46 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:31:48 Oh, most files use .l or .lisp? 09:32:29 astePC: .lisp is mostly used for common lisp 09:32:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:43 ok 09:32:43 astePC: .l and .cl have some following, but i'd recommend .lisp 09:32:57 ok, thanks. 09:33:18 Is there a good way to get a binary numerical representation of a *random-state*? 09:34:30 .cl comes from DOS days 09:34:32 nice to see the SBCL crowdfunding has been such a resounding success 09:34:49 Ralith: you can print it to a string. 09:35:22 H4ns: specifically, I'd like to have a binary string I can modify arbitrarily and read back in. 09:35:41 I know from the spec that there isn't a standard way to do this, but is there perhaps a wrapper lib, or a third party RNG that has this ability? 09:35:58 I can see that SBCL's random state at least would be easy to do this for. 09:36:10 but I'd rather not roll my own if a portable solution exists 09:36:12 Ralith: ccl's is quite different. 09:36:17 Ralith: there's nothing portable. 09:36:19 Ralith: there is no portable solution 09:36:38 no wrapper libs? no other RNGs? 09:36:49 There are other RNGS. 09:37:33 the ones I've seen, MT19937 and jmt, don't seem to offer an interface for this. 09:37:55 benny [~benny@i577A218C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:37:58 Perhaps not, but you have the source, so you can add the feature. 09:38:24 right 09:38:25 Ralith: alternatively, you could write a CDR, and add the feature to all the free implementations. 09:38:32 CDR? 09:38:51 http://cdr.eurolisp.org/ 09:38:53 (just trying to avoid reinventing any wheels) 09:39:11 Nobody did it yet. 09:39:22 ngz [~user@171.203.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:29 *Ralith* nod 09:39:41 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:44 -!- pbusser3 [~peter@79.99.24.100] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC5-1.1.2 -- Are we there yet?] 09:44:02 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 09:47:37 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 09:47:49 Is there a way to access the state slot of SBCL's random-state? I can't seem to find an accessor bound in any of the likely-looking packages. 09:48:12 No standard way. 09:48:30 In SBCL. I don't know. Check the sources. 09:48:58 that's what I've been doing 09:49:02 haven't had any luck 09:49:03 sharpobject [~asdf@208.80.119.68] has joined #lisp 09:49:23 which scheme should I install on OSX for SICP exercises? 09:49:25 Ralith: hey 09:49:40 sharpobject: IIRC, Racket has a sicp language mode. 09:49:48 thanks 09:49:49 Ralith: http://blocky.io/blog/2011/08/30/blocky-lightning-talk-1/ 09:50:38 -!- H4ns [~hans@p5DDBBC61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 09:50:44 Ralith: a video showing some improvements 09:51:38 -!- astePC [~astePC@unaffiliated/aste] has quit [Quit: Hasta la vista, baby.] 09:51:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:07 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:16 oh there we go 09:52:18 typod the colons 09:52:28 got it 09:56:24 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:58:11 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:09 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.128] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 Blocky is really inspiring.. 10:06:37 -!- H4ns``` is now known as H4ns 10:07:00 davidh` [~user@g225018031.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:07:42 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-051-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:04 -!- davidh [~user@g225019074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:11:20 -!- davidh` is now known as davidh 10:11:44 sharpobject: I'd also go with Racket 10:12:55 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.238.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:16:17 ZabaQ: hey 10:16:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:32 ZabaQ: i'm hoping to make it easy to wrap other peoples libraries/objects with visual fun 10:18:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:48 hm 10:19:57 why does copy-array un-simple a simple array? 10:19:59 and how do I prevent that? 10:20:35 Use COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM.ARRAY:COPY-ARRAY instead. 10:21:31 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:21:52 uh. 10:21:56 Ralith: note: GPL 10:22:07 Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 10:22:16 what about alexandria's? 10:22:23 Compare them. 10:22:33 What else copy-array is there? 10:22:54 that's the one I'm asking how to not un-simple an array with 10:23:05 I'm getting a type (AND (VECTOR (UNSIGNED-BYTE 32) 627) (NOT SIMPLE-ARRAY)) which seems kind of dumb 10:24:22 coerce works, it seems 10:32:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:34:14 -!- jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 10:34:25 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:35:46 -!- markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:35:53 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:11 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:37:10 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 10:37:18 jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:40:45 pnq [~nick@AC8123C5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:41:54 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:43:29 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 10:43:51 hello all 10:44:47 hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.18] has joined #lisp 10:45:28 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:49:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.198.239] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 10:54:40 joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has joined #lisp 10:54:48 yello upper 10:55:45 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-051-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:31 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 10:56:56 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:30 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 11:00:07 -!- denisu [~shelta@amber.merseine.nu] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 11:00:24 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.112.143] has joined #lisp 11:01:40 yakov_ [~yakov@83.136.241.54] has joined #lisp 11:01:54 how can I distinguish between file and directory in lisp? 11:03:31 zmyrgel: http://weitz.de/cl-fad/ 11:04:20 zmyrgel: (defun filep (path) (pathname-name path) ) 11:05:12 H4ns: thanks, I can't believe I missed the file-exists-p functions in it 11:05:26 zmyrgel: there also is directory-pathname-p in there. 11:05:36 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8123C5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:05:40 -!- yakov [~yakov@83.136.241.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06:36 is there any pre-made lazy-sequences a la clojure library for cl? 11:06:48 yes 11:07:00 zmyrgel: do you know http://cliki.net ? 11:08:00 pjb: yeah, I've been browsing it 11:08:40 I found clazy for lazy evaluation but didn't see sequence library which would use it 11:08:57 zmyrgel: so you have a quest to fullfil there! 11:09:20 probably 11:09:27 will take a while though 11:09:48 still struggling on when to use #' on functions and when not :) 11:10:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:10:47 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:10:48 zmyrgel: google is awesome. i typed "common lisp" lazy and got actual, useful results. 11:12:07 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.139] has joined #lisp 11:12:18 -!- xristos_ is now known as xristos 11:15:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@96.237.121.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:16:49 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:18 -!- jdz [~jdz@host96-107-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:41 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 11:19:46 OT: stanford ai-class enrollment started! 11:20:34 pnq [~nick@172.129.68.194] has joined #lisp 11:22:40 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:18 i compiled sbcl, now maxima stopped working: can't load .core for different runtime, argh 11:24:11 i guess maxima is a saved core image then? 11:24:55 its weird, because maxima works with all kinds of implementations 11:25:11 any thoughts guys? 11:27:13 mcstar: how did you obtain maxima? 11:27:26 Is there any way to initialize a global differently for each thread? 11:27:34 or rather, evaluate its initializer per-thread 11:28:56 aerique: hehe, didnt expect you to answer :) 11:29:05 well, from the package manager 11:29:20 i see, theres a core in the installation, so im just gonna build maxima from the sources 11:29:36 nvm, got a workaround 11:32:22 Ralith: workaround with a separate hash, or something better? 11:33:17 flip214: there was a convenient place to stick a (let ((*global* (initialize))) ...) 11:33:32 more appropriate than having the value be truly global anyway 11:33:51 -!- upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:35:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:11 well, but you had to "globally" define it as a special variable anyway, I suppose ... 11:36:18 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:36:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:45:40 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:47:12 oudeis [~oudeis@93-173-48-191.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 11:49:07 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.112.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:55 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.70] has joined #lisp 11:57:57 -!- omegapunkt [~textual@125-236-232-13.adsl.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:00:27 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:01:54 aerique: a rebuild fixed it 12:02:56 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-144-86.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:16 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rbihfrmljlwzsemp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:03:38 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kjnzrdvbbmcnrrli] has joined #lisp 12:04:16 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@83.136.241.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:06:57 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.68.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:07:19 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:10:21 mcstar: awesome :) 12:11:08 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:11:11 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:13:05 -!- 13WAAIF5K is now known as tomaw 12:13:51 -!- beach` is now known as beach 12:18:09 joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has joined #lisp 12:18:15 markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 12:20:34 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 12:30:15 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:32:12 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:37:07 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:57 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:57 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:17 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:50:45 denisu [~shelta@78.46.178.249] has joined #lisp 12:51:05 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-173-48-191.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:52:13 does someone know whether the (defun (setf xx)) is generalized, so that I could define (and call?) functions like (defun (my-word xx)) too? ie. is the special "setf" hardcoded in defun, or does the function "name" get compared with equal anyway? (I'd believe the former, but wanted to ask anyway) 12:52:17 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-144-86.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:30 It's magic. 12:52:38 (unfortunately) 12:53:48 magic is just sufficiently advanced technology ... so tell me more, tell me more, (did you get very far?) 12:54:21 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:55:25 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.20.82] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 12:55:37 hi nikodemus! 12:57:06 nikodemus: in what SBCL version was the :serve-events keyword added? Can SLIME only work with that version and newer now? 12:58:41 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@189.26.25.125.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:00:30 1.0.42.43. 13:00:52 Thanks. 13:01:01 The NEWS entry for 1.0.50+ scared me. 13:01:47 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 13:02:55 Now I see there are older references to it 13:03:01 the default policy changed in 1.0.51; the policy mechanism was introduced in 42 13:05:18 Hexstream was burned by it yesterday, but he's on 1.0.42 13:08:51 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 13:09:17 -!- allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:10:00 Xach: yeap. it's been there almost a year -- but if people are being burnt by slime i can add backwards compatibility there 13:11:08 Let me check my ql SBCL stats 13:11:22 oh, foo, my stats machine is down for a drive upgrade. 13:11:50 flip214: if you're using SBCL you dip ito internals and use SB-INT:DEFINE-FUNCTION-NAME-SYNTAX to define new name syntaxes (withint certain limitations) 13:14:18 cool! thanks, I'll take a look ... although this was more or less just a fun-question ... 13:15:27 I saw that ABCL has fixed the cl-unicode issue ... how about a new release? 13:16:42 How about it, internet? 13:17:18 *foocraft* puts the release soundtrack on 13:17:25 "sorry, internet is to home right now" 13:17:29 to/not 13:18:27 the problem is not so much in the internet ... ehu is not here 13:18:46 Xach: slime HEAD should now -- in theory at least -- work with SBCL < 1.0.42.43 13:19:19 *Xach* will try to test *before* next quicklisp release 13:19:52 (and if you're brave enough to update Slime you can also give C-c C-j a try) 13:19:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:36 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:39 allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has joined #lisp 13:21:59 Xach: about two months ago you said you're planning to get automatic cleanup of dists into quicklisp, so that old versions get removed .... is there hope to see something like this in the next few years? 13:22:03 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has joined #lisp 13:23:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:24:56 Yes, in the next few years. 13:25:13 thanks ;) 13:26:24 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:28:26 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 13:28:54 nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:04 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:09 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:34 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 13:32:54 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:03 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 13:35:47 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 13:36:09 tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.31] has joined #lisp 13:36:26 pnq [~nick@ACA27FEF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:36:43 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:38:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:38:45 Perhaps some crowfunding to improve quicklisp would make it faster? 13:39:01 I think the CL giving community has been tapped out 13:39:25 Yes, perhaps not right now, but in a couple of months... 13:40:03 or a few years ... 13:40:51 ffff. 17 hours and $755 away. :< 13:40:55 so close, yet so far. 13:41:26 pjb: There's a money usefulness gap, also. 13:41:36 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has joined #lisp 13:41:56 Or you could hire somebody to work with you on it? 13:41:57 pjb: I'm not in a position to convert small amounts of money into time right now - I convert it into web hosting and computer hardware. 13:42:28 Maybe. There are projects I think I could fully describe but not implement... 13:42:33 not any time soon, anyway. 13:43:04 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 13:43:46 E.g. a project-wide apropos system 13:44:06 It would be nice to find out what projects supply an "url-encode" function. 13:44:29 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:44:31 It's a SMOP to create, just load every project, one at a time, and take a snapshot of the symbols and packages. 13:44:56 Wire it up to the web or some offline index, and bob is your uncle. 13:45:05 HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:05 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:46 if i have a list '(a b c) how would I call a function as (narf a b c)? 13:45:55 clhs apply 13:45:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 13:46:06 thanks pjb 13:46:20 oudeis [~oudeis@62.0.53.178] has joined #lisp 13:46:23 and it would be (narf 'a 'b 'c). 13:46:37 You would have to add mapcar eval, but eval doesn't work for lexical scopes... 13:47:34 So you'd write: (apply (function narf) (mapcar (lambda (var) (ecase var ((a) a) ((b) b) ((c) c))) '(a b c))) 13:48:54 -!- paroneayea [~user@fsf/member/paroneayea] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:49:27 pjb: eh what now? 13:49:52 pjb: all i want to do is "or" the elements of a list 13:49:58 (a b c) is a list containing three symbols. (narf a b c) is a call which pass the value of three variables. 13:50:15 Then what you want is (narf 'a 'b 'c), not (narf a b c). 13:50:27 and then apply is all you need. 13:50:50 why does it keep saying or is not a function though 13:50:57 HET2: because OR is not a function. 13:51:04 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:51:19 (some (function identity) list) 13:51:20 Xach: that makes sense 13:51:32 HET2: (notevery #'null list) is approximately an OR on list 13:51:33 HET2: and or --> every some 13:53:21 mmm confusing 13:53:29 clhs every 13:53:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 13:53:45 yeah i am reading the hyperspec as we speak 13:53:53 what's confusing? 13:54:17 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:51 pjb: maybe confusing is the wrong word. unexpected perhaps 13:54:55 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:55:21 HET2: in lisp, there are three kind of operators: functions, macros and special operators. 13:55:46 how about (some #'identity (list a b c)) 13:55:49 that should do 13:56:06 Yes, that's what i wrote above: (some (function identity) list) 13:56:12 oic 13:56:23 so #' is syntactic sugar for (function f) 13:56:41 But Morgan said that (or a b c) == (not (and (not a) (not b) (not c))) 13:57:05 so (some (function identity) list) = (notevery (function not) list) 13:57:17 HET2: yes. pjb has Lisp diabetes. 13:57:18 (and since null = not, ...) 13:57:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:57:33 lol 13:57:58 anyway 13:58:00 thanks for the help! 14:01:51 -!- tetsuhar1 is now known as tetsuharu 14:02:14 -!- tetsuharu is now known as tetsu 14:03:51 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:04:39 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62.0.53.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:23 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA27FEF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:08:07 pnq [~nick@172.162.127.239] has joined #lisp 14:09:49 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.198.239] has joined #lisp 14:11:30 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:15:09 -!- upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:42 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 14:19:55 -!- nauar [~kvirc@70.Red-213-4-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 14:20:24 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:39 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has joined #lisp 14:23:34 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-115-66.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:24:02 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 14:24:21 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:35 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:24 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:30 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-132-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:41 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:45 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:31:54 urandom__ [~user@p548A2CC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:11 -!- pnq [~nick@172.162.127.239] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:35:06 pnq [~nick@ACA27FEF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:16 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:37:35 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:40:57 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:40:58 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:41:02 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:41:14 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:43:21 eddayyy [~etate@212.169.34.114] has joined #lisp 14:43:29 ehu [~erik@62.140.137.138] has joined #lisp 14:47:27 -!- allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:31 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:00 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:51:57 Bike1 [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 14:52:07 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:16 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:17 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-180-223.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:52:34 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:53:56 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:56:45 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:57:34 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:33 xan_ [~xan@152.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:59:44 ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has joined #lisp 15:00:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:02:27 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 15:06:00 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:10:34 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:52 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:58 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:16:29 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 15:16:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:46 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 15:16:53 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:19:23 _3b: i'm trying to use 3bmd but it barfs a lot on "Undefined rule OR" 15:20:37 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.31] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 15:22:13 Xach: did you ever get around to adding private distribution support to ZS3? 15:23:01 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:24:46 I didn't. I didn't know that was a thing! 15:24:56 It is! 15:25:08 You can have private cloudfront distributions with expiring URLs 15:25:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.198.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:25:40 if you didn't, then I'll ask the boss if I can put a patch together and send it your way once I'm done. 15:26:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.232.149.115] has joined #lisp 15:26:30 I apologize in advance for the ad hocracy of ZS3's XML processing. 15:27:31 forgiven. I think I've already figured out what I needed involving the xml stuff. :) 15:28:24 the only hard thing seems to be signing the URLs with a .pem file, because I haven't worked with ssl signing before. 15:28:33 I got Big Ideas for Grand Unified stuff, no Big Grand Time to write it. 15:28:46 Signing the urls with a pem file! Where can I read more about that? 15:29:06 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:10 http://anthonyvscode.com/2011/01/11/using-amazon-s3-cloudfront-to-distribute-your-private-files/ There's example C# code. 15:31:31 I guess I meant "what URL within the CloudFront docs" 15:31:35 -!- TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Nyan nyan nyan!] 15:31:47 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:15 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:20 http://docs.amazonwebservices.com/AmazonCloudFront/latest/DeveloperGuide/index.html?PrivateContent.html I guess everything is linked to from here. 15:33:31 http://docs.amazonwebservices.com/AmazonCloudFront/latest/DeveloperGuide/RestrictingAccessPrivateContent.html#CFPolicyStatementSigners specifically 15:34:44 interesting 15:39:57 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:40:03 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:08 retrokid [~chaosday@p508D400A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:19 Hallo, ich habe vor Lisp zu erlernen, finde leider wenig Material dazu. Kann mir eventuell jemand weiterhelfen? 15:41:45 retrokid: in diesem kanal wird englisch geredet. 15:42:25 ok sorry 15:43:04 hey Folks, i search Paper for Common Lisp.. can anybody help me?" 15:43:12 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:43:26 H4ns: i think i understood the german better 15:43:33 Or at least equally badly 15:43:34 Xach: *sigh* 15:44:41 -!- maxm [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:45:07 -!- markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:45:50 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:46:34 maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:47 searching the newspaper for CL jobs maybe? 15:47:02 -!- retrokid [~chaosday@p508D400A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ok, i learn propper english : )] 15:47:13 -!- maxm- is now known as maxm 15:47:36 <_8david> retrokid: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a popular starting place 15:47:44 _8david: He disappeared. 15:48:34 <_3b> Xach: any examples of something it doesn't like? 15:49:04 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-247-181.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 15:49:11 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:33 http://xach.com/tmp/README.md is from chillax 15:50:10 i'm using parse-and-print-to-stream to process it, and get "Undefined rule: OR" 15:51:49 cfy [~cfy@125.123.48.132] has joined #lisp 15:51:49 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.48.132] has quit [Changing host] 15:51:49 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:51:53 -!- upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:52:48 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:52:54 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-133-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:53:03 can somebody suggest me a linear programming package other than PatXi-2 for cl? 15:54:42 mcstar: linear *programming*? 15:54:50 yes 15:54:52 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:55:20 I don't think there's such a package in CL; we've been writing one-off bindings to CPLEX and Gurobi so far. 15:55:29 Bike1 [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 15:56:28 Xach: works for me 15:56:29 for linear algebra, there's matlisp, or tamas papp's current package (LLA I think) 15:56:34 you mean, the bindings are not publicly available? 15:56:38 pkhuong: 15:56:41 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA27FEF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:54 can you inspect the error and check if it's CL:OR or something else? 15:57:24 <_3b> hmm, strange... fails here too, and it is CL:OR 15:58:04 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:58:15 nikodemus: are you using the latest quicklisp? 15:58:18 pkhuong: im not interested in linear algebra(not right now) 15:58:39 pkhuong: i see CPLEX is capable to solve integer programming problems 15:59:07 can you tell me about thoase bindings you mentioned? 15:59:13 -a 16:00:30 updating now -- i was also using local esrap instead of the one from quicklisp 16:00:30 <_3b> ok, looks like a bug in the 3bmd extension stuff 16:00:40 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.232.149.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:01:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-126-46.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:21 works 16:01:52 nikodemus: how much work is it to make win32 sbcl catch stack overflows instead of crash? 16:02:18 i've found a msdn article giving an example of how to do it 16:02:35 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.17.252] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:02:36 zvrba: i don't remember the details 16:02:43 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:02:50 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:52 anton, dmitry, and david are the people to ask 16:03:53 ok 16:04:13 zvrba: actually, i think we already had stack protection working on win32 -- but after you blow the stack for the first time it's gone and not re-protected. but could be i misremember 16:05:30 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 16:07:45 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kjnzrdvbbmcnrrli] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:02 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 16:08:04 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-98-92-214-155.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:43 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has joined #lisp 16:09:58 _3b: can i help you track/fix it somehow? 16:10:14 <_3b> Xach: already (probably) fixed 16:10:32 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-137-82.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:10:41 yay 16:12:21 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.164.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:55 <_3b> Xach: and pushed 16:15:07 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-swbynoxjllbnjqua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:44 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:27 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:32 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:22:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:03 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 16:23:36 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:28:15 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:19 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:32:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:08 altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:12 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 16:34:52 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:37:11 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-40-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:37:15 -!- tarmil [~user@109.74.51.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:24 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:29 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:41:42 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:44:44 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:48:02 anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770BC9.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:49:14 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 16:54:05 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-137-82.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:54:30 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.238.185] has joined #lisp 16:57:15 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:58:16 hi 16:59:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@152.61.17.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:59:57 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:00:57 hi 17:05:22 hi 17:05:43 -!- eddayyy [~etate@212.169.34.114] has quit [Quit: eddayyy] 17:10:25 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:10:32 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:11:49 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:13:08 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:14 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:13:39 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 17:13:44 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 17:17:39 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:19:59 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:20:12 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:20:23 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 17:22:05 What's the correct predicate to check for keyword equality? 17:22:57 eq 17:24:41 hmm 17:24:46 how can i make a relative pathname? 17:26:43 (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "dir") :name "name") 17:27:16 ah, I see 17:27:28 so if I only want one level I have to do (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "dir")) ? 17:27:45 For a directory pathname yes/ 17:27:47 . 17:28:11 and I can also do (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "dir/name")) hmmm 17:28:27 No, it's not conforming. 17:28:29 anvandare: that'd be (:relative "dir" "name") 17:28:30 ? 17:28:38 I don't know what it could be. 17:28:57 assuming "name" is also a directory's name 17:29:07 It could as well refer a device on the Moon base that when accessed, launches missiles down to the Earth. 17:29:15 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:22 I see 17:29:24 (eq (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "dir" "name")) (make-pathname :directory '(:relative "dir/name"))) => nil 17:29:27 <_3b> does CL disallow / in directory names? 17:29:39 -!- denisu [~shelta@78.46.178.249] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:40 ahh, yes, it thinks "dir/name" is the name of a node in the path 17:29:43 not two nodes 17:30:05 _3b: it's implementation dependant. The good chars are [-A-Z0-9]. 17:30:25 denisu [~shelta@78.46.178.249] has joined #lisp 17:30:55 anvandare: also EQ may not do what you think it should do with regards to pathnames 17:31:20 <_3b> pjb: failing to find that in the spec, don't suppose you know where it specifies that? 17:31:29 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:39 well, even equal doesn't say they're the same 17:31:42 *_3b* is obviously missing something, since i can't even find :relative 17:32:14 anvandare: perhaps you should read the CLHS entry for eq/eql/equal/equalp 17:32:27 I did! 17:32:32 but I keep forgetting it ;\ 17:32:48 same object, same value, same type and value, ... 17:32:51 anvandare: eq for symbols, = for numbers and equal for everything else? :) 17:33:13 that's too confusing :P 17:33:16 -!- ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:33:31 <_3b> no, eq for identity, not just symbols 17:34:08 <_3b> and eql is good for numbers sometimes too (particularly when one of the items being compared can be something other than a number) 17:34:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:56 _3b: I meant it as a rule of thumb, and since anvandare seemed to be confused by that simplified version I doubt it will help piling on further rules 17:35:19 Land of Lisp makes a similar recommendation 17:35:28 yes 17:36:26 Land of Lisp is actually an excellent Common Lips guide, I was confused by NIL 'NIL () and '() before I read about it in LoL 17:37:26 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440313.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:37:49 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:38:08 I read Land of Lisp and thought that while it's a nice book I wouldn't want newbies reading it, because it contains certain inaccuracies that may be hard to unlearn. 17:38:38 If you mix it with a little On Lisp you should be fine 17:39:38 adeht, did you notify the author 17:39:52 Qworkescence: no, I did not. 17:40:04 adeht, if you have suggestions to make it better, you really should 17:42:07 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439974.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:44:32 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:45:11 hey, do you thing that "common lispcraft" book is worth having? 17:46:11 wow i never heard of that back before 17:46:40 i've seen the name but never bothered 17:46:56 but know there's a ridiculous price for it on amazon 17:47:12 bidding bots fell into feedback loop 17:47:16 but now* 17:47:26 $0.35 used? 17:47:30 yeah 17:48:07 i don't want to carry a lot of burden on my flight 17:48:14 it's enough i bought cltl 17:48:46 Dodek: I didn't find a decent copy of cltl, so I printed the one on the site :) 17:49:09 Dodek: have you read any other lisp books? 17:49:34 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:43 felideon: yeah 17:50:00 i know lisp pretty well, i'm just asking if it's worth having. :) 17:50:43 -!- denisu [~shelta@78.46.178.249] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 17:50:56 Weird cover... and it's 25 years old, so there's that. 17:50:58 denisu [~shelta@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:18 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 17:51:30 HG` [~HG@p5DC053C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:55:40 jdz [~jdz@host119-109-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:57:29 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:25 _3b: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/19_bbaa.htm 18:02:36 <_3b> pjb: thanks 18:02:37 -!- ehu [~erik@62.140.137.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:45 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:17 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDD198.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 18:06:10 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:07:05 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-2-215.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:09:16 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.103] has joined #lisp 18:09:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.103] has quit [Changing host] 18:09:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:10:28 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 18:19:24 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:24 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:48 pbj: I'm trying to get a sb-bsd-sockets server working. when I try to use read-line a against the stream that is supposed to be returned from the accept method, I get... 18:23:59 There is no applicable method for the generic function 18:23:59 # 18:23:59 when called with arguments 18:23:59 (#). 18:23:59 [Condition of type SIMPLE-ERROR] 18:24:08 any ideas 18:25:27 msmith1: did you do socket-make-stream? 18:26:17 Is there a better way to get all fdefinitions in a package than just checking all symbols for fboundp? 18:26:30 jasom: no sir I did not 18:26:32 jasom: unportable ones, I guess 18:30:15 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CFC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.81.236] has joined #lisp 18:32:04 -!- McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.81.236] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:38 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:38 jasom: just write you own user interface over it! 18:39:56 pjb: that's what I did. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything in the spec 18:43:58 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:28 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:29 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:44:29 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 18:44:36 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.38.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:45:28 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:45:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:46:26 -!- gkeith_lt [~georgekei@nat/google/x-yaoudpdhfycbinrt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:47:58 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 18:49:06 argh 18:49:12 why must hunchentoot be so completely arcane??? 18:50:56 Try UncommonWeb. 18:51:08 not enough time left :/ 18:51:10 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-153-123.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:19 Younder [~john@238.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:51:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-126-46.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:51:24 hi all 18:51:26 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 18:51:59 anvandare: I think that was sarcasm. I don't find HT arcane at all, either. :) 18:52:07 it's very well-documented. 18:52:35 if by well-documented you mean "can't understand where I'm supposed to put a dispatcher so that instead of hunchentoot's default 404 page they get mine" then... no :P 18:52:40 err, yes 18:52:42 gkeith_lt [~georgekei@nat/google/x-bulhegriczwlisqs] has joined #lisp 18:52:44 There are dark areas. 18:52:45 meh, either way! 18:52:52 and thus, arcane 18:53:14 anvandare: put at the end of the list your 404 dispatcher that accepts all paths! 18:53:20 How arcane is that?? 18:53:21 i tried 18:53:22 doesn't work 18:53:36 \o/ and i don't know why because it's arrrrrcane! 18:53:37 I'm thinking of the pretty prenter interface 18:54:11 printer 18:54:41 anvandare: (setf *default-handler* 'my-404-handler) (pushnew 404 *approved-return-codes*) 18:54:53 is how I do it. I'm not sure it's how I'm -supposed- to do it. 18:55:20 o_O what does pushnew do? 18:55:30 I don't need to answer that. 18:55:46 It's push, but it doesn't push if the thing you push is already in the place. 18:55:54 anvandare: and you're persuaded that *hunchentoot* is at fault here? 18:55:56 ahh, right 18:56:12 pkhuong: forgetting every possible function in lisp is excusable :P 18:56:41 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:43 anyway, it doesn't matter, I'll leave the default 404 page :/ shame I can't redirect, but that's for later 18:57:01 anvandare: is there a reason you ignored what I gave you? 18:58:04 well, no, but I simply haven't the time anymore to firugre out how it works :\ 3 hours left and I've still to document everything 18:58:14 *anvandare* starts rushing 18:58:26 oh, it's your homework. 18:58:33 *sykopomp* goes back to work. 18:58:47 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:00:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:52 cnl [~cnl@95.106.90.70] has joined #lisp 19:02:26 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 19:06:52 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:37 *maxm* is back to working on his C++ code for his charting app 19:13:17 its from around 2002-2003 timeframe.. Its amazing how much more you learn, my code from that time kind of sucks :-) 19:13:47 well boost wasnt that good back then, so had to roll lots of my own boost-like things. 19:15:10 and for some reason I had lame infiruation with lower-case-only identifier,s I guess as a lashback against working with java 19:15:18 now it kind of looks lame 19:16:39 shift key is heavy, avoid mixed-case ;P 19:18:17 working with lisp actually makes you a better c++ programmer too 19:18:26 you notice patterns where you can reduce code a lot 19:19:03 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:20:16 sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:38 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:24:43 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.238.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:25:23 phax [~phax@adsl-68-77-75-115.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:23 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-77-75-115.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:25:23 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:28:22 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.238.185] has joined #lisp 19:29:02 rpg [~rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:46 hmm, cl-json wants to output to a stream... how can I create a temporary stream, so to later turn it into a string? 19:30:58 omegapunk_ [~textual@60.234.20.206] has joined #lisp 19:31:05 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:31:14 phax [~phax@adsl-68-77-75-115.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:14 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-77-75-115.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:31:14 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:31:19 <_3b> clhs w-o-t-s 19:31:19 WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_out_.htm 19:31:41 ahh, thanks 19:31:51 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 19:33:14 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDD198.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:56 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.90.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:35:28 Elench` [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:36:40 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:39:03 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:01 freeone3000 [~James@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has joined #lisp 19:42:18 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 19:42:41 -!- ngz [~user@171.203.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:07 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:12 cnl [~cnl@95.106.44.129] has joined #lisp 19:50:15 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:44 i was building something, and it broke 19:51:12 so i started investigation and found the culprit 19:52:32 it turned out to be perl script, so i look into it, and, unsuprisingly, someone tried to parse context free language with a bunch of regular expressions 19:53:03 what really got me down was a comment on the top 19:53:15 # Need to refactor all the code belows. It grew more than I expected. 19:53:47 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.238.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:46 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:19 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:18 Dodek: that's why parser-making (and design of file formats) should be mandatory class in CS 20:01:08 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:01:12 alexshendi [~alexshend@81.253.37.146] has joined #lisp 20:01:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-153-123.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:01:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-221.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:39 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:03:22 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:03:32 kami``` [~user@p57A2B705.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:27 428$ missing and only 11 hours left at http://www.indiegogo.com/SBCL-Threading-Improvements-1 btw. Let's not make this a near-miss... (Also the SBCL version in the topic needs an update.) 20:05:28 -!- kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:05:46 p_l|backup: it's good enough that a bug was somewhere else and i didn't need to edit tht mess... 20:05:47 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.44.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:06:28 (Well, as much as 12572$ over the initial goal can be considered a near-miss ;) But getting rid of the big compiler lock at last would be awesome!) 20:06:29 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:07:46 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:12:25 cnl [~cnl@95.106.23.14] has joined #lisp 20:13:12 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:15:07 -!- freeone3000 [~James@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:15:46 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 20:17:40 ngz [~user@17.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:00 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:19:01 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:22:50 buguldey [~buguldey@client-76-171.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:55 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:32 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:26:05 all of that would have been significantly easier if you guys only accepted my (deflocal) patch a few years back 20:26:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:38 now nikodemus would be endlessly hunting down unbound globals :-) 20:27:24 the goal I assume is to make two (loads) from two threads work simultaniously right? 20:27:45 actually two (compiles) 20:30:04 Hum. Lately I feel that Common Lisp would be tremendously simplified and made more powerful if EVERYTHING was respecified in terms of CLOS. In particular: conditions, streams, structures. With a custom metaclass for each. Defining a new condition would just be (defclass (condition my-condition) ...). 20:30:52 *maxm* actually agrees.. In fact if SBCL was doing it, it would still probably be faster then clisp 20:31:24 altho going to structures gives you that 30/40% speedup, and almost C-like access to members under heavy optimization settings 20:31:36 -!- alexshendi [~alexshend@81.253.37.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:40 streams are already objects btw 20:31:57 And you could do (make-instance '(condition my-condition) ...) instead of (make-condition 'my-condition)... That might all sound slow and stuff, but remember that for a long time Lisp was slow ;P I'm sure medium-term the performance would be quite acceptable, and long-term the benefits in simplicity might give even better performance. And of course let's not discount the conceptual simplicity for users... 20:32:32 problem with CL strems, is that byte streams and character streams are mixed together, without separation. So its impossible to just write byte shoveling layer, without also involving yourself in the pains of unicode, utf8, string-to-octets and friends 20:32:33 maxm: Right, but they're not specified as being just normal classes. For instance you can't MAKE-INSTANCE them. 20:32:53 what java and iostream libs got right finally, is separating byte munching from char crunching 20:33:13 SBCL actually has an half-working implementation of it in contrib/ 20:33:16 but it never took off 20:34:31 they are called sb-simple-streams 20:36:37 maxm: it's the other way around 20:37:41 fe[nl]ix: explain? 20:40:08 joelr [~joelr@95.60.213.7] has joined #lisp 20:40:14 good evening 20:40:35 in the CL standard, character streams and byte streams are separate, and it's simple-streams that mixes them 20:43:18 hmm, so is it possible to write a a wrapper that just does (write-bytes) and (read-bytes), and then attach all the streams machinery on top of it? 20:43:42 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@172.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:00 i thought that the problem was that while its easy to do in Java, in CL you have to write all the little tricky methods, like read-char, read-string etc... 20:44:14 TeMPOraL [~user@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust444.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:29 there's no read-string 20:46:20 and all you need is read-char, on which read-line and read-sequence can build 20:46:26 thats why implementing lets say SSL or such in Java is kind of easy, you implement your transport layer that shovels bytes around (ie InputStream or OutputStream), and attach Java's stream to it (ie BufferedReader) 20:48:36 read-char still has to deal with encodings, does not it? 20:48:48 of course 20:48:53 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:49:15 well thats the problem, because ppl don't really care to re-implement all the complicated encoding/unicode machinery 20:49:26 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC053C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 20:49:33 but writing your own bytes transport layer is more common 20:49:50 <_3b> so add it to babel, and we can all just use that? 20:49:50 Java designers got it really right in their case 20:52:16 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:52:21 java i/o is probably the most painful i/o api i've ever used 20:52:31 oGmo: how so? 20:53:16 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:53:37 maxm: Java I/O is a mess of badly-done OOP 20:54:00 Java is a mess of badly-done OOP ;P 20:54:11 meh I disagree, I find it much more easy to understand then lets say SBCL streams implementation 20:54:29 the fact that they included a separated class for string reading doesn't help it enough for people who sometimes scream for COBOL 20:54:32 alexshendi [~alexshend@ip-109-40-94-155.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 20:54:32 besides, don't gray streams do what you're asking for? 20:54:51 *_3b* thought gray streams was what was being complained about 20:54:56 hah 20:55:08 (due to "enhancing" performance by adding few classes in between, because for some reason unbufferred is default) 20:56:18 *_3b* sort of agrees, gray streams could use some more work, and maybe a convenience utility library 20:58:12 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:20 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:54 p_l|backup: I don't know why you think its a bad thing.. Its basic separation of concepts. For example if i wanted to write Java class that sends string to/from some weird modem that speaks utf8, all i have to do is write a class that impements byte read() and write (byte b) 20:59:13 than pass my class to BufferedReader() and bam I can talk to my modem in utf8 20:59:24 _3b: gray streams are not much of a library, just a set of hooks into the standard CL I/O functions(which are not generic functions) 20:59:25 <_3b> maxm: out of curiosity, would it let you also implement a stream that accepts characters without any encoding/decoding garbage? 20:59:51 <_3b> fe[nl]ix: right, with some missing bits, and some bits that aren't the same everywhere 20:59:53 3b: you don't worry about encoding / decoding, Reader() class does that 21:00:12 <_3b> maxm: i mean if you don't want and encoding/decoding, can you avoid it 21:00:17 maxm: why do you have to write a class to speak utf8 to a modem in the first place? 21:00:35 reader/writer accepts anything in its contructor that can do read() and write() on bytes ie InputStream or OutputStream 21:01:04 <_3b> maxm: say i want to write characters to a stream, and have them end up on screen, clim style... i just want 'characters' with no 'bytes' involved 21:01:17 my point is that modem may be speaking not utf8, but utf-16, or sometimes output stuff in some crazy japanese multi-byte encoding 21:01:25 caring about utf-8 or the modem is already broken 21:01:30 _3b: So, how do you encode #\A? 21:01:41 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:45 maxm: it sounds like you have a contrived example which isn't really a problem and therefore nothing is really being solved 21:01:48 <_3b> pjb: as #\A? 21:01:50 With java way, all of that encoding stuff stays in standard library Reader/writer class, and I'm only implementing readByte() and writeByte() 21:01:52 maxm: I'm not saying that layered approach isn't good, I'm complaining about how it's ridiculously naked 21:01:56 _3b: think more. 21:02:10 <_3b> pjb: i have no idea what you are asking 21:02:16 can't beleive I'm arguing this, to me its kind of basic design 21:02:27 the type of #\A is character. the type of what you can read or write is (unsigned-byte 8). 21:02:37 <_3b> pjb: to a character stream? 21:02:48 maxm: again, I agree with basic idea of layered I/O system... I just really don't like how exposed (and annoying) it can be in Java 21:02:58 You said "to a stream", not "to a character stream". 21:03:02 <_3b> pjb: and i wasn't asking about CL anyway 21:03:05 #\A may be actually encoded as #(1 2 3 3 4 5 6) sequence of bytes in some carzy encoding 21:03:35 -!- joelr [~joelr@95.60.213.7] has left #lisp 21:04:07 btw, have you tried using flexi-streams? 21:04:17 it allows you to create new encodings, iirc 21:04:35 yes, and they do work.. Of course CL community created a bunch of work-arounds... 21:05:32 <_3b> well, gray streams is a 'work-around' in the first place :p 21:05:52 It's work-arounds all the way down! 21:05:54 but whole conversation started because someone said "would not it be nice if more stuff like streams was pure CLOS" and imho if CL streams were implemented in Java way, with clear separation of byte based (whatever you call them byte streams, devices, byte munchers) under the layer that does all the encodings 21:06:16 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 21:06:17 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:06:26 *_3b* would rather just have composable parts 21:06:49 <_3b> which would be pretty easy to build if i really needed it 21:07:01 heh 21:07:27 thus clearly a pressing issue for which a solution needs overengineered immediately 21:07:34 <_3b> being only able to extend streams after some 'encoding' layer processed it would be annoying 21:08:49 *_3b* could see wanting to do some processing on the characters before sending them on, or just using the characters directly 21:09:18 nah current work-arounds are fine 21:09:34 but one can dream of what could have been :-) 21:09:44 maxm: better, one can implement it. 21:09:49 <_3b> still could be, since they are just work-arounds :) 21:10:00 maxm: instead of discussing it here, you could have already implemented 1/4 of it. 21:10:06 <_3b> dreaming is for bad ideas that managed to sneak into the spec :/ 21:10:08 unfortunately there is only so much time each of us has 21:10:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:10:22 Sure, if you spend it on irc... 21:10:34 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 21:10:48 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:48 pjb: I can't just code for 18 hours straight, sometimes I relax by reading irc channels and responding in opinionated way :-) 21:11:17 Let's improve our concentration. 21:11:22 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.23.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:11:29 freeone3000 [~James@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has joined #lisp 21:12:38 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 21:14:05 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:24 -!- freeone3000 [~James@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has left #lisp 21:18:40 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CFC7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:18:49 Guthur_ [~Guthur@host86-148-164-18.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:04 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 21:19:41 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-180-223.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:52 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:02 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 21:21:24 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-150-88-186.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:21:36 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:22:00 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 21:23:23 argh, the crowd fund is little over $300 short of $16k 21:24:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-221.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:33 ASau [~user@93-80-104-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:24:46 *maxm* checks his ameritrade account 21:24:55 still on the road to poorhouse :-) 21:26:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-94.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:32 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-174-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:42 y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-174-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:29 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:29:07 10 hours left D: 21:29:14 -!- SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:29:22 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-173-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:29:32 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-173-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:33 -!- y3llow_ is now known as y3llow 21:29:38 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:29:46 oh well, lemme get my checkbook 21:30:00 is he in the US? so I can deduct it and send him 1099? :-) 21:30:08 *maxm* kids 21:30:38 Finland. 21:32:09 just crossed the 9 hour mark 21:36:04 someone just contrib'd 300 21:36:21 $28 short 21:36:48 *maxm* raises a hand 21:36:50 maxm i guess from the nick 21:37:14 cool 21:37:27 that's quite an affluent poor house maxm, hehe 21:37:59 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:03 major tip of the hat to your support of SBCL though 21:38:26 its from my slowly dwindling corporate account 21:38:41 I'll deduct it on r&d 21:39:02 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 21:41:11 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:41 get-setf-expansion is nifty 21:42:13 weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:42:15 oh hi 21:42:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124400 21:42:23 any ideas, please? 21:42:31 the path exists 21:42:43 looks like it blew right past $16,000 21:42:58 but I guess maxm won. :) 21:43:15 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDD198.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 21:43:25 sykopomp, did cffi on windows? 21:43:25 maxm took it close 21:43:28 but yeah 21:44:00 the compiler lock thing seems hugely beneficial to everyone and pretty in-line with the threading project 21:44:09 weirdo: I haven't done CFFI on windows in any serious way. 21:44:43 now I just hope there is no BS with the actual payout 21:44:46 does this mean I'll be able to actually use my 6 cores while compiling? :) 21:45:05 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.115] has joined #lisp 21:45:19 maybe if we reach $18k he'll implement a parallel GC 21:45:21 *oGMo* runs 21:45:33 9 hours left 21:45:35 gogogo 21:47:40 oGMo: $2k for a parallel GC ? if only it were that easy 21:48:06 fe[nl]ix: exactly ;) 21:48:09 Guthur_ [~Guthur@host86-150-89-204.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:52 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d0494cd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 21:49:04 aren't there actual companies that run SBCL in production? 21:50:34 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-148-164-18.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:50:39 the airline booking crowd 21:50:44 ITA isn't it 21:51:20 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:51:21 at least they did, but they were bought by google afaik 21:51:39 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 21:51:49 -!- j-f [~jef@5ac8b031.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:53:27 Hey, how would you remove the final NIL from a true list? 21:53:37 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:52 something like (magic '((1 2 3)))  (1 2 3) 21:54:07 or (magic '(1 2 3))  (1 2 . 3) 21:54:10 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:55:06 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:56 (setcdr (butlast list) (car (last list))) 21:55:58 imho 21:56:15 err wrong 21:57:39 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:44 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:06 (setf (cdr (last list 2)) (car (last (list)))) 21:58:06 there 21:59:54 oh... well, I would've thought there was an easier way 22:00:36 -!- alexshendi [~alexshend@ip-109-40-94-155.web.vodafone.de] has left #lisp 22:01:02 sellout_ [~rooms@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:08 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 22:02:23 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:26 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:04:23 I don't know how you write it in Lisp but: (fold-right cons (last foo) (butlast foo)) 22:07:18 Sa[i]nT [~SainT_on@fl-67-235-178-42.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:26 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:07:55 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:52 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:11:03 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-150-89-204.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:30 -!- bigjust [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 22:12:41 bigjust [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 22:15:14 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:15:30 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-92.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:04 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:17:11 what do you recommend for implementing binary protocols? 22:18:09 yay nikodemus 22:18:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:11 weirdo: Lisp 22:18:20 Xach, i know. but a system would be nice 22:18:30 weirdo: A Lisp system is pretty good 22:18:32 binary classes with MOP/macros and the like 22:18:47 gigamonkey has a library for that 22:19:07 and there is another one 22:19:16 binary-types by what's his name 22:19:18 thank you 22:20:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:21:57 frodef? 22:22:10 weirdo: what binary protocol did you have in mind? 22:22:15 -!- jdz [~jdz@host119-109-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:22:17 Xach, GameSpy 22:22:33 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:52 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:55 though i can't find any info for the server-list query 22:27:03 -!- buguldey [~buguldey@client-76-171.sibtele.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27:37 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust444.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: nyancopter ;)] 22:27:43 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:28:27 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:41 -!- rpg [~rpg@173-8-98-161-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:01 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.180.198] has joined #lisp 22:40:59 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.180.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:42:43 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:43:42 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:52 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.156.10] has joined #lisp 22:44:19 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-94-105.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45:31 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.115] has joined #lisp 22:50:37 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:50:41 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-176-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:51:02 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:51:40 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:42 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:56:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:34 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.180.198] has joined #lisp 22:59:07 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@172.Red-88-7-133.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:59:10 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:41 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-83-177.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:44 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.115] has joined #lisp 23:04:10 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.20.82] has joined #lisp 23:04:44 -!- ngz [~user@17.100.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:05:14 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:57 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:07:41 what do i need to do for tab-completion to work in slime buffers? 23:07:46 because just using Custom doesn't work 23:08:40 Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.58.180.198] has joined #lisp 23:08:43 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 23:09:16 -!- literal is now known as l 23:09:48 -!- l is now known as Guest99833 23:10:16 -!- Guest99833 is now known as literal 23:12:14 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.180.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:37 try C-M-i 23:12:58 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-115-66.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:13:15 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:17:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:48 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:30 -!- qsun [~Quan@eth123.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 23:24:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:25:55 Jubb [~ghost@64.134.240.54] has joined #lisp 23:26:21 weirdo: (setq slime-complete-symbol-function 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol slime-complete-symbol*-fancy t) (define-key slime-mode-map (kbd "") 'slime-indent-and-complete-symbol) 23:29:12 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 23:30:41 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:31:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:40 fe[nl]ix, thank you! 23:34:44 -!- blacktooth [~blacktoot@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:34:44 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:15 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:26 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:39 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-94.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:01 blacktooth [~blacktoot@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:23 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.234.179] has joined #lisp 23:40:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:41:29 weirdo make sure you're actually in slime buffer and not inferior-lisp 23:41:41 (if it still didn't work) 23:41:43 astePC [~astePC@unaffiliated/aste] has joined #lisp 23:42:33 shaggy- [~microcop@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 23:42:39 How do I define a function in Lisp? (defun ? 23:42:57 and what is this ' I see all the time 23:43:17 astePC: try reading an introductory book like Practical Common Lisp 23:46:45 (defun add (a b) (+ a b)) ' is a quote. and yes, you need a book 23:50:13 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:35 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:52:06 darkf [~darkf_dix@unaffiliated/darkf] has joined #lisp 23:54:37 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:49 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-66-196.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:52 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.156.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:55:56 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:10 rbuck [~rbuck@66-189-68-77.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp