00:00:30 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:35 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1F14.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:16:28 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4D4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:39 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:00 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:34:58 pnq [~nick@AC812A9E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:25 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:44:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:20 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.38] has joined #lisp 00:46:09 abjurer [~user@99-181-55-13.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:37 Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 00:48:42 -!- abjurer [~user@99-181-55-13.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 00:50:47 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:08 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.188] has joined #lisp 00:59:33 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:04:38 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:08 -!- dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:20 -!- Simul` [~user@97-93-224-156.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:13:47 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:14:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:16:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-99-169.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:16:48 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 01:24:11 dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 01:25:33 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 01:27:19 toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:28 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-128-162.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:28:59 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 01:29:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 01:31:30 Wellesly [~jake@h82.158.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:19 Are programs written in Lisp supposed to be much bigger than programs written in C? or am I doing something wrong? I compiled a very simple and small program with SBCL and a similar one with C. The resulting executables were ~26MB and ~5KB respectively. I know space doesnt matter as much as it once did, but Im curious. 01:38:10 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 01:38:54 OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 01:38:54 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Client Quit] 01:40:58 permagreen [~alex@97-120-248-127.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:35 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:45:01 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:15 Hi Wellesly -- it depends on which compiler you're using 01:46:56 i think many common lisp compilers will capture the whole program image (including all runtime libraries and the compiler itself) if you don't specify to optimize the program 01:48:20 Ah, I see. 01:48:23 Thank you. 01:48:55 maybe look at different compiler options, or try different compilers. (i don't know enough to make a better recommendation) 01:49:14 I shall. I only discovered Lisp three days ago, so I should look around more. 01:49:47 nefo [~nefo@61.184.206.136] has joined #lisp 01:49:47 -!- nefo [~nefo@61.184.206.136] has quit [Changing host] 01:49:48 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:50:05 Wellesly: Most lisp implementations I've used dump the entire compiler and runtime when they create standalone executables. 01:50:32 Wellesly: Some Lisp compilers, though, include a treeshaker and other features that allow you to dump much smaller files. LispWorks, for example, does this. 01:51:26 and some simply dump smaller executables, even though they don't treeshake (to my knowledge) such as clisp, which generally dumps ~5mb images for me. 01:52:37 note that these also generally compress quite nicely... SBCL's images generally range ~50mb for me, yet gzip down to ~10mb 01:54:53 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 01:57:29 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 01:57:59 Wellesly: also, when you add more code it won't add that much... it's kinda how it went with simple Delphi apps compared to apps that had handwritten calls to Windows gui libs... the first included the VCL, which made the binary few MB sized compared to <200kB 01:59:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:59:09 I see. I figured it was something like that, as I doubt you would be using a language that generated executables that were thousands of times bigger than similar C programs. 01:59:56 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00:45 you could say that your hello world bundled GCC, pthreads, and full runtime :) 02:01:42 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:57 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:10:23 So its really cramming the interpreter in the file with the program? That sounds like a rather ignorant questioneven to mebut I am afraid I am not really a programmeronly ever wrote one whole program, and that was three years ago. 02:11:35 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:11:38 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:52 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:12:13 Wellesly: well, in case of SBCL, it's the compiler (SBCL doesn't do interpreting till you force it) 02:13:48 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:14:16 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C689.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:38 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has joined #lisp 02:16:21 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:23 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CCEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:19:07 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 02:19:38 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:15 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:25:53 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:26:20 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 02:31:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.188] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 02:33:23 paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 02:35:38 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has joined #lisp 02:39:10 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:35 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:41:11 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:50 xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.21] has joined #lisp 02:47:02 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:33 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:28 it doesn't then, either. 02:59:53 It has a tiny interpreter that will do trivial expressions 03:04:07 dlowe: afaik it only happens in really trivial calls to eval (ones that probably translate to an APPLY or FUNCALL...), and anything more is 1) disabled 2) probably buggy as hell 03:04:14 but I haven't checked much :) 03:05:11 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180097119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:52 daniel__3 [~daniel@p50829C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:07:28 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812A9E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:08:11 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p50829AF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:08:22 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:10:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 03:12:17 -!- nuba_ is now known as nuba 03:18:09 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:20:51 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 03:26:56 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 03:34:13 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:40:15 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-144-92.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:15 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-144-92.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:40:15 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:40:19 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.43] has joined #lisp 03:45:46 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:53 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:51 Anyone have any non-SBCL lisp's handy. If so what does (float (expt 2 -1074) 0d0) evaluate to? 03:47:00 (ignore that #\') 03:48:54 It evaluated to *** - FLOAT: floating point underflow. 03:48:57 I get an underflow in clisp. 03:49:34 Hmmm. No denormalized floats for you, I guess. 03:49:47 Wellesly: which Lisp was that? 03:49:49 ACL gives me 5.0d-324 03:50:00 gigamonkey: CLisp as well. 03:50:10 4.940656458412465d-324 <--- ECL 11.1.1 amd64 03:50:25 5.0d-324 on ccl64, as well. 03:51:19 Okay, now how about (- (float (expt 2 -1022) 0d0) (float (expt 2 -1074) 0d0)) on one of the Lisp's that said 5.0d-324 03:51:48 also, 0.0d0 on ABCL. 03:52:47 ACL says: 2.225073858507201d-308 03:53:08 same result on ccl64 03:53:32 *gigamonkey* realizes he has ccl on this machine too. 03:53:53 It just flashed for a few seconds and then a rift in space opened on my desk. You broke reality. I hope your happy. 03:54:02 gigamonkey: 2.225073858507201d-308 on ECL (which reported 4.940656458412465d-324 for the first one) 03:54:03 youre* 03:54:29 More seriously: I got the same result on CLisp. 03:54:57 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:55:41 So SBCL and some other Lisps say 2.225072267010358d-308 vs 2.225073858507201D-308 for Lisps that think (float (expt 2 -1074) 0d0) is 5.0d-324. What's up with that? 03:56:05 Is one answer "right"? Or is this just yet another wrinkle of floating point I don't understand. 03:57:01 gigamonkey: I suspect one might need to factor in differing compilation options and differing FPU modes... 03:57:53 FWIW python3 and whatever Javascript I've got in Chrome are in the 5.0d-324 camp. 04:00:32 -!- paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 04:00:43 Seems like 5.0d-324 is actually "right" since that's really .0000....00005, i.e. 1/2^1074 04:01:20 I.e. in the denormalized floating point representation there's one bit on in the mantissa 04:01:55 paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 04:05:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:07 -!- everyman [~user@blk-224-153-99.eastlink.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:14 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:41 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.43] has joined #lisp 04:11:04 xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.21] has joined #lisp 04:20:02 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:20:42 Ah, never mind that thing I said before about 5.0d-324 being "right". I'm more confused than I thought. 04:20:49 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 04:23:28 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 2039] 04:25:04 gigamonkey: it's purely a printing issue. 04:26:02 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:04 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:29:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:29:28 for the second computation, I don't know, but it might be rounding-related. 04:29:58 exit 04:30:05 -!- Wellesly [~jake@h82.158.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:35:39 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rst] 04:36:11 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:35 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:40 Hunden [~Hunden@e180102070.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:44:10 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 04:47:48 -!- paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:03:27 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:52 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:17:47 -!- jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:41 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:21:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:23:19 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:27:10 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:31:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-178.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:38:14 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 05:38:24 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has joined #lisp 05:44:49 ku 05:47:06 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:54:03 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:06:25 sshirokov [~sshirokov@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 06:08:13 micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:25 -!- capivara [~capivara@186.215.41.237] has quit [Quit: capivara] 06:09:57 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:12:50 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:14:28 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 06:16:03 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:23:51 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:26:48 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 06:29:14 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:34:30 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 06:34:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:28 -!- daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:45:26 daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 06:47:05 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:48:39 lispnewb [44bd22fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.189.34.251] has joined #lisp 06:53:29 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 06:59:38 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.83.27] has joined #lisp 07:00:33 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:04:52 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:10 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has joined #lisp 07:06:06 -!- lispnewb [44bd22fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.189.34.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:07:28 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:08:45 Jarred [~Jarred@c-98-210-215-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:05 So what are the major differences between Clojure and Haskell? 07:15:41 slash_ [~unknown@p54A8FA23.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:29 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54A8FA23.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 07:16:33 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 07:16:39 -!- Jarred [~Jarred@c-98-210-215-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:16:53 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_sigt 07:17:01 -!- redline6561_sigt is now known as redline_sigtstp 07:19:03 Just about everything, I think. The only thing they really have in common is they are both functional programming languages. 07:19:50 paprika [~paprika@221x114x157x234.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:20:49 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 07:26:51 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-104.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:34:22 -!- paprika [~paprika@221x114x157x234.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:43:46 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:45:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:47:52 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:48:03 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:49:32 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-34.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:52:58 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:44 _6502_ [5e24f053@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.240.83] has joined #lisp 07:58:16 <_6502_> eval-when sucks big time 07:58:24 <_6502_> either that or my brain is too small 07:59:21 <_6502_> really all pre-standard lisp dialects had such a thing? 08:03:10 _6502_: Apparently it's from Maclisp, but what's the problem with it? 08:04:20 <_6502_> bike: if for you is ok then it's my brain problem 08:04:53 <_6502_> bike: not only mine, of course; i've found many rants about eval-when 08:05:13 yeah, but I think I at least understand what it's for. 08:05:19 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 08:05:28 *_3b* is in the "just use all 3, top-level only, and ignore the details" camp :) 08:05:50 <_6502_> bike: cramming all those different semantics to the same lisp code... doesn't sound the right thing 08:06:45 "all those different semantics"? 08:10:13 <_6502_> bike: i originally and innocently thought that lisp was read + compile (optional and basically transparent) + eval, repeat 08:10:30 _6502_: (load "s.lisp") (compile-file "s.lisp") (load "s.fasl") 08:10:49 what you say is only load. 08:10:59 there's also compile-file, and loading the binary. 08:11:21 _6502_: :execute = (load "s.lisp") ; :compile-toplevel = (compile-file "s.lisp") ; :load-toplevel = (load "s.fasl") 08:11:24 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-104.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:08 _6502_: once you understand that, eval-when is simple. (just only eval-when as top-level form). 08:13:16 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:13:27 *_6502_* is thinking hard 08:14:30 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:43 -!- wgl [~wgl@209.242.26.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:16:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:16:20 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:17:23 <_6502_> so the idea is to have a single source that can be executed (load) or compiled (compile-file) or of which the compiled file can be loaded (load with a fasl) ? 08:17:39 yes. 08:18:21 paprika [~paprika@FL1-119-244-44-133.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 08:18:23 There are things that you need to do only when compiling or only when loading the compiled file. 08:19:32 -!- permagreen [~alex@97-120-248-127.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Welcome to the real world] 08:19:36 <_6502_> and this top-level thing.... if i write in the repl (progn (defmacro ...) (defun ...)) can the function use the macro? 08:19:56 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:25:10 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 08:26:37 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:27:18 sacho [~sacho@95-42-121-139.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:27:54 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-134.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:28:20 poindontcare [~user@122.176.206.97] has joined #lisp 08:31:40 No. 08:32:17 Well, yes, since progn keeps the forms as toplevel forms. 08:32:57 But in (progn (defun ...) (defmacro ...)) the macro could not use the function (it could expand to a call to the function). 08:41:31 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has quit [Quit: see u] 08:41:47 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has joined #lisp 08:42:03 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:15 Good morning everyone! 08:43:39 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 08:44:08 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:13 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:29 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has joined #lisp 08:45:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 08:52:37 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:20 benny [~benny@i577A1F34.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:02:24 neena [~neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has joined #lisp 09:23:24 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 09:32:35 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:33:24 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:37:40 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 09:47:17 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:53:20 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 10:00:54 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 10:03:46 -!- _6502_ [5e24f053@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.240.83] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:04:42 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:05:28 francogrex [~user@109.130.187.106] has joined #lisp 10:05:42 cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has joined #lisp 10:05:42 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has quit [Changing host] 10:05:42 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:06:47 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-94.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:07:07 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-94.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:10:02 hi plage 10:13:35 ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:08 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:10 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:26:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-33-78.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:26:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-33-78.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:26:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:42:52 pnq [~nick@AC819D3F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 10:50:47 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.187.106] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:08:13 -!- paprika [~paprika@FL1-119-244-44-133.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:43 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:59 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:21:14 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 11:22:19 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:22:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:22:49 can a LET form shadow a global constant? 11:22:59 (as per the spec, that is) 11:27:22 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 11:28:32 *Xach* scratches head deeply 11:30:34 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has joined #lisp 11:30:53 ahh, l1sp.org expired and i didn't get the notices via email 11:30:56 *Xach* wonders why 11:31:33 Looks like it hasn't yet been scarfed by a domain reseller. Maybe there's still time to renew 11:33:10 I register my domains at NearlyFreeSpeech.net. Very easy to use web interface. Always get lots of expiration warnings, unless I turn them off 11:33:46 penny a day to leave my name and address out of the whois records 11:34:27 josemanuel [~josemanue@1.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:34:43 I host my low-traffic htmp/php web sites there, too. Very inexpensive until your bandwidth gets high 11:34:51 html/php 11:35:20 11:35:34 You work there? :p 11:35:36 no 11:35:49 Just like them. They've served me well for many years 11:35:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-178.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:37:11 Heh. The best sort of advertisement, that. :) 11:38:01 Their one disadvantage is that because of their distributed hosting setup, they can't give you a fixed IP, so you can't use SSL on your site 11:38:30 I consider that a more a fail of SSL, but that's what we've got now 11:39:43 Somebody has to teach them about routers, I guess 11:39:47 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:57 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 11:41:51 Interesting: "We do plan to implement SSL in two phases, one based on IPv6, and then, later, for IPv4 using a TLS extension called SNI that allows sharing of IP addresses between multiple secure sites." 11:41:51 https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/about/faq#SSL 11:48:47 ehu: Compile-time error: +DUPA+ names a defined constant, and cannot be used as a local variable. 11:49:11 ehu: Dunno, what the spec says, though. 11:50:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-122.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:51:15 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 11:52:03 urandom__ [~user@p548A4A3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:05 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:25 ehu: PCL says: it can't be used as a function parameter or rebound with any other binding form. 11:56:50 mobydick [~textual@202-161-7-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:58:45 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:29 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:03:44 -!- ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:04 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:02 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:10:50 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@61.160.83.66] has quit [Quit: ] 12:21:45 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:17 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:54 hargettp [~hargettp@c-71-232-187-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:09 antoszka: thanks! 12:26:40 -!- mobydick [~textual@202-161-7-194.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 12:26:49 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 12:27:52 francogrex [~user@109.130.187.106] has joined #lisp 12:28:16 ehu: But reading the spec suggests you cannot expect your compiler to always error out in such situations. 12:28:49 antoszka: I can imagine that. Do you have a link? 12:29:00 ehu: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcon.htm 12:29:16 <_3b> defconstant page is pretty clear you can't expect anything in that case :) 12:30:36 ccl errors, too: > Can't bind or assign to constant +FOO+., in process listener(1). 12:30:52 sounds good. 12:31:07 I think I should at least try to mimick that behaviour 12:31:22 thanks for the answers 12:31:32 ehu: Are you writing a CL compiler? 12:31:41 antoszka: yup. 12:31:52 Cool. 12:31:55 antoszka: http://common-lisp.net/project/armedbear/ 12:32:11 actually, I'm fixing a bug, but I was wondering about the expected behaviour 12:32:14 how can i get a linedit/sb-aclrepl like repl/prompt for maxima ? 12:32:27 i just want the history functionality... 12:32:38 ehu: When we're at it  at there plans to target Dalvik with ABCL? 12:32:40 it works for my sbcl, but not in maxima 12:33:23 antoszka: yes. easyE is working on stripping down what we have to see how hard it is to get the basics running on Dalvik. 12:33:35 antoszka: we're looking for contributers though. 12:33:40 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.187.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:48 ehu: unfortunately I don't know a thing about Java :). 12:34:07 hehe. neither did I when I took over ABCL :-) 12:34:23 :) 12:35:31 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-48.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:35:47 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-48.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:05 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:39:38 antoszka: all we need is someone who understands how the Dalvik JVM works 12:39:59 (which might not even be close to Java) 12:41:14 I'm not in that set either, unfortunately. Currently just following/considering the possibilities of programming for Android in some humane language. 12:42:14 Kawa Scheme is supposedly usable. Might try that before there's a CL implementation working. ;) 12:43:18 sure. when you're ready for some experimenting, please come to #abcl and test with us! 12:47:53 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:49:43 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-121-139.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:54:50 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:01 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819D3F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:09:29 antoszka: I've used kawa scheme. If you use Proguard to remove unused symbols, the apps it generates aren't even that large 13:10:25 I doubt you're going to get a CL that will comfortably fit on a mobile device 13:11:06 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.209] has joined #lisp 13:13:00 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 13:14:44 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:19:45 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:23:06 dlowe: ABCL runs on the Nokia N900, but indeed nothing near "comfortable" 13:34:49 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:35:13 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:01 pnq [~nick@AC818F92.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:14 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:08 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:01 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:10 -!- pnq [~nick@AC818F92.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:56 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 13:51:42 Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 13:54:34 kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-9-152.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:55:30 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:44 I came here because I was wondering how many of you actually do image-based development..? 13:57:41 *_3b* does short-term image-based dev, but not long term 13:59:29 <_3b> building up state and interacting with it over a few days, but keeping things set up to recreate (or save/load if recreating would be too slow) the state from scratch 14:02:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:02:45 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@c-71-232-187-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 14:03:27 _3b: So you use it to accelerate development, but don't depend on it..? 14:04:13 _3b: I'm asking because I don't do it myself, and am wondering how much of a productivity boost it actually is. 14:04:22 <_3b> i think it is more an issue of trying to balance between increasing the good parts and minimizing the bad 14:04:46 _3b: A trade-off - like so much.. 14:04:51 spending a lot of time inside the Lisp image can be a really wonderful thing, but it's also nice to be able to wipe out all that state and start from a cleaner compile. 14:05:00 <_3b> being able to see changes instantly, rather than waiting for something to reload after changing something is a big plus 14:05:28 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 14:05:45 being able to fix bugs without having to rerun the code that failed... 14:05:48 mmmm 14:05:49 <_3b> getting into a state where you have a bunch of work which only exists in a long-lived image, then breaking that image, is a big minus :) 14:06:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-9-152.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:06:47 oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-8-180.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:06:48 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:55 _3b; there must be defensive practices that can prevent you getting into that state too often. 14:06:55 <_3b> exploratory programming on big data sets is much nicer when you can just keep the data set live in the image 14:07:07 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:08:16 ok. parenscript on ABCL really fixed today. 14:08:23 <_3b> not using images for extended periods is my main defense there :) 14:08:44 *_3b* also uses the repl a lot less than some people, which helps a bit there 14:09:01 ZabaQ: Loading all your source code from source files is another defense... as is having source files with various test data in it that you can easily reload. 14:09:11 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-8-180.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:17 anything non-trivial that isn't a quick repl-test probably belongs in a file somewhere. 14:09:36 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:13 My other defense is to just do a full restart of the lisp image and a full compile every now and then. Just as a sanity check. 14:11:33 <_3b> moving between machines once in a while is another good test, especially if you go by way of a remote version control repo that stuff should have been getting checked into :) 14:12:12 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:14:56 zvrba [96456@diamant.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 14:15:08 in sbcl, how can I change the default floating point output format? 14:15:28 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 14:15:38 i want to display all significant digits, not just 7 14:16:02 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 14:16:36 <_3b> what does 'all' mean? 14:16:50 <_3b> it prints more than 7 for a double-float here 14:16:58 ah 14:17:05 so 2.0 is single-float? 14:17:11 <_3b> probably 14:17:12 how do I make a double-float literal? 14:17:28 <_3b> 2.0d0 or 2d0 14:17:38 yes, float-precision 2.0 returns 24 14:17:39 Or set *read-default-float-format* 14:17:49 Xach: set it to what value? 14:17:57 <_3b> yeah, that variable is what accounts for the "probably" above :) 14:17:58 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 14:18:08 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:18:22 zvrba: Dunno, see http://l1sp.org/cl/*read-default-float-format* to find out. 14:18:29 i just have :-) 14:18:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:20:05 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:20:13 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Fear not, I will return] 14:22:38 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:54 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:32:00 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:16 :lisp (cl:expt 2d0 3) works in sbcl 1.0.50.54-blah-dirty 14:37:37 err i mean the command itself works in sbcl, but not from maxima 5.25 14:38:05 sbcl gives 8.0d0 as answer, maxima reports error "incorrect syntax: 2.0 is not an infix operator" 14:38:50 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 14:40:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:41:46 capivara [~capivara@201.86.14.82.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:51:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:51:19 -!- capivara [~capivara@201.86.14.82.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: capivara] 14:52:19 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:54:28 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:55:30 ljos [~mozzyb@login2.uib.no] has joined #lisp 14:56:59 hmm, it seems to be due to tex-infix in mactex.lisp 14:57:35 the : symbol maybe 14:57:51 but then lisp: (expt 2.0 3) does not work too.... 14:59:55 homie: have you considered telling this to maxima people? 14:59:56 derekv [~user@ip-216-36-86-104.iad.megapath.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:23 i'm just grepping the sources for infix 15:00:26 now 15:00:46 ok, i'll tell them some time... 15:01:40 Hi - I was wondering if there is a way to get a flet-function inside the scope of funcall. What I mean is that I would like to do something like this: (flet ((g (x) (print x)) (funcall 'g 'x)) . 15:02:05 -!- redline_sigtstp is now known as redline6561 15:02:21 use function instead of quote. 15:02:48 when you use quote, funcall must use symbol-function, whih is not bound by flet, since flet is a lexical binding. 15:03:06 Would anything in principle prevent one from writing low level code eg a filesystem driver in CL? 15:03:12 The problem is that at the time of writing the code I will not know what flet-function i will be using. 15:03:17 derekv: no. 15:03:43 ljos: lexical bindings are known when you write it. 15:04:35 Yes yes. I know, the lexical bindings are not the problem. 15:05:24 Strum [~Strum@33.112.96.58.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:05:28 thinking... perhaps the practicality of compiler targets ... but in any case seems like a good way to prototype ideas at least. 15:05:30 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:49 The problem is that I want to define some functions and then run them at different times decided by something from the outside. And instead of going into a lot of conds and ifs I would like to just call the function, but I will probably have to just define the functions outside of the function as well. 15:08:02 -!- adeht [void@common.lisp.su] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:31 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 15:08:54 derekv: fuse doesn't seem to think FSes are so low-level anymore. 15:11:45 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:12:42 <_3b> derekv: implementation details are probably more limiting than the language itself (things like objecting to calls from arbitrary threads, or GC issues) 15:12:52 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:23:16 An impatient friend is asking for a quick condensed CL tutorial -- anything you'd recommend? 15:24:16 PCL hits the ground at a nice speed. 15:25:04 -!- plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:25:54 pkhuong: He looked and said "too much text, too little code". So something more condensed would be welcome. 15:27:03 pkhuong: right i was thinking maybe via fuse it wouldn't be that hard. trying to decide if its something I want to work on. I have more ideas for projects then I have time heh 15:27:07 PCL is pretty condensed and has plenty of code 15:27:35 antoszka: HyperSpec? :) 15:28:28 antoszka: I wonder if he won't appriciate it in the long run, its not like moving from c++ to java ... but there's always rosettacode 15:28:44 antoszka: http://www.franz.com/resources/educational_resources/cooper.book.pdf is 100 pages. 15:28:44 antoszka: he can skip to the code and backtrack when needed. 15:29:14 pjb: thx. Yeah I'll certainly suggest the books for him in the longer run, but need something to have him caught up :) 15:30:39 jesusito [~user@244.pool85-49-244.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 15:30:51 rosettacode, 99 lisp problems, just look up any lisp project with code 15:31:03 I can appriciate where he's coming from 15:31:36 My boss comes over and is like, i want you to learn this I got you a book, and its a for dummies book or a "head on" with like cartoons 15:32:34 The head on books are OK in a way but i'd rather just have a "nutshell" book or look up a tutorial online. Usually i'll go to the irc chan for said subject and look at the topic for links =] 15:33:20 Chan ops on freenode are experianced with helping people learn a language so usually their recomended tutorial/books really are the best ones 15:34:31 OH lol I wonder if he thinks it doesn't have much code because the actual number of lines of code 15:34:38 explain to him, its more expressive =] 15:34:44 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:41:51 :) 15:41:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:33 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:49:03 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:53:20 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:30 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:53:49 capivara [~capivara@201.86.14.82.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:00:34 LiamH [~nobody@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:33 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:05:50 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@1.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 16:08:02 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:36 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 16:09:15 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:09 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.83.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:34 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.215.37] has joined #lisp 16:18:21 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:09 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:45 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.215.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:05 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:23:01 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:56 man where does this warning comes from: could not optimize away %SAP-ALIEN forced to do runtime allocation of alien-value structure 16:24:04 I see no rhyme and reason for it 16:24:45 moved (cffi:with-forign-object) from function to a macro, and it started appearing 16:26:28 actually, previously it was (cffi:with-foreign-object (points :double 2000)), but now its defmacro.... `(let ((,maxpoints ,buffer-size)) (cffi:with-foreign-object (,points :double ,maxpoints))) 16:27:02 -!- Strum [~Strum@33.112.96.58.static.exetel.com.au] has left #lisp 16:27:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:27:37 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:27:48 maxm: pointers in SBCL's FFI are dynamically typed. There are some compiler tricks to avoid consing typed pointers up when they can be optimised away locally. 16:28:21 ah I get it, apparently cffi uses constantp and then either with-alien or foregin-alloc and foregn-free 16:28:22 meh 16:28:29 thats what I get for trying to refactor 16:28:31 ooh, slime-fancy has REPL shortcuts 16:28:45 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.85.142] has joined #lisp 16:28:49 That *note* simply means that the optimisations aren't able to do their work. 16:29:55 it happens when you take the address of a foreign object and bind it to a multiple-use local variable, for instance. 16:31:00 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:06 maxm: it's a hack, but could detect literal values of maxpoints and splice them in directly. 16:31:28 pnq [~nick@AC814414.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:40 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.124] has joined #lisp 16:34:19 yea I just replaced cffi with with-alien since my code is sbcl specific in other places anyway 16:34:43 dl [~download@dhcp95.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:36:33 npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has joined #lisp 16:37:13 Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.215.37] has joined #lisp 16:38:40 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-96-181.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:07 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814414.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41:27 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:46 I like developing with CommonQT in lispy enviroment more and more http://i.imgur.com/ZqQNN.png 16:45:46 16:46:20 where else you can profile your paint event handler, completly redo it, test and deploy teh fix, without even closing your test window 16:46:21 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:20 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:49:20 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:58 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:50:00 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.51.210] has joined #lisp 16:51:20 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.51.210] has left #lisp 16:52:21 Sikander [~userid@5356F49F.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:52:52 LiamH: Hi 16:53:39 Hi Sikander! how are you? 16:53:53 LiamH: Busy, but otherwise fine :D 16:54:21 LiamH: I've had a bit of time this weekend (after months...) and had a look again at the fft tests 16:54:21 Good. Did you see my email about Antik? 16:54:27 Yes, I did 16:54:45 I've pulled the new versions 16:54:57 and saw that gref is now aref again :D 16:55:05 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:08 Good, I'm interested in your thoughts. 16:55:22 gref is still there, just discouraged in new code 16:55:52 I haven't played too much with Antik yet, but it seems quite nice. 16:55:54 What have you learned from the FFT tests? 16:56:07 That I don't know what the hell is going on 16:56:23 Ah. 16:56:42 Is this the speed issue? 16:56:48 Still, yes 16:57:22 I can say this for sure: if you do about 10000 forward transforms on a random vector of length 999, it takes about a second 16:57:26 But the tests take ages 16:57:54 One second, using the C interface? 16:57:59 Sikander: what does a profile of the tests say? 16:58:10 LiamH: No, the lisp interface 16:58:31 pkhuong: I'm not a very great profiler :( I think I'm going to need some help with that 16:59:18 Sikander: That sounds like a good figure then. So the speed problem we notice before is in the lisp-unit tests, not in GSLL/Antik itself? 17:00:24 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 17:00:52 LiamH: It doesn't seem so. 17:01:51 LiamH: However, it is true that the random vector construction takes quite some time. 17:02:19 Still the 10000/sec includes the construction, doesn't it? 17:03:07 LiamH: With random vector construction (new vector each time), it drops to about 1000/sec 17:03:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:03:49 Wow, that's bad. 17:03:58 LiamH: I'm using map-grid for construction now, thinking that it should be faster, but that didn't matter much 17:04:27 I also made specialised functions with declarations to construct vectors of a special type, but that didn't matter that much 17:04:46 *maxm* is reading up on antic 17:05:04 antik rather.. you having performance problems? 17:05:18 Sikander: Can you post your forms and results to the mailing list? I'd like to take a look at how the forms expand. 17:05:26 maxm: only with regards to certain gsll tests 17:05:43 LiamH: Ok. I'll tidy it up a bit and send it to the list. 17:06:42 LiamH: Note, I'm just doing the tests "by hand" (without testing the results) to see if I can isolate the problem. 17:07:36 *maxm* does some numerical stuff too, came up with per-column array storage lib for myself... (ie (defstruct-like interface)) but stuff is stored in native arrays of whatever each element type is 17:07:39 Sikander: Since Antik is now released, I can spend some "free" time GSLL and related issues. Unfortunately, the semester is about to begin, which means less free time. 17:08:09 LiamH: I know the problem... 17:08:20 maxm: Look at the grid chapter of Antik, it might do what you want (you have a choice of CL or foreign arrays). 17:09:02 mine needs are different that I want to efficently store multiple gigs of data, so I have to pack them efficiently, so can't use just 1 array 17:09:05 LiamH: By the way, while actually using gsll for my work, I found that avogadro's number (and all numerical "dimensionless" constants) were missing. 17:09:58 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:10:00 Sikander: I really wanted to get Antik and the GSLL based on it out there, because I've been using it internally and unable to respond to bug reports on GSLL because of the difficulty (mentally) of switching. I thought when I started in December it would take a month or two.... 17:10:19 Sikander: let me look at that 17:10:42 LiamH: Well, I added the file with those constants in my own repository. Haven't pushed it to origin, though. 17:10:56 ie storing market tick data, (defseries-struct ((time (unsigned-byte 32)) (price (unsigned-byte 16) (ask-diff (unsigned-byte 8)) (bid-diff (unsigned-byte 8))))) stores that stuff in the 1 simple-array of the appropriate type per-column, providing (iterate) like interface with typed macrolets, that makes writing functions like (sum) or (avg) a breeze, but with (Speed 3) compiles into C like code 17:11:00 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:44 imho per/column storage is the way to go for large amount of numerical data.. Help CPU cache too when crunching it 17:11:46 LiamH: I was wondering, why did you not keep gsd separate so that both antik and gsll depend on that? 17:11:51 -!- jesusito [~user@244.pool85-49-244.dynamic.orange.es] has left #lisp 17:11:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:12:21 maxm: yup. For a similar use case, I wound up allowing much more dynamic schemas. You can still generate the same inner-loop, but find the columns dynamically. 17:12:58 Sikander: I must have missed GSL_CONST_NUM_FINE_STRUCTURE and GSL_CONST_NUM_AVOGADRO because they're in a separate file. 17:13:03 LiamH: For people wanting to use only gsll, they need to load antik as well... On the other hand, quicklisp makes stuff easier, that's true 17:13:13 LiamH: Yes, I have it. You want me to push it? 17:13:20 Sikander: yes 17:13:25 chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:26 please 17:14:42 LiamH: Hum, remote end hung up? 17:15:01 Sikander: I guess they are in the same system because I had started more than a decade ago putting all my scientific lisp code into one system (not released) and grids are a replacement for the lousy generalized array code I had. 17:15:24 Sikander: git repo troubles? 17:16:11 LiamH: Well, it says remote end hung up unexpectedly :( 17:16:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:16:44 Hmm. My usual response to those kinds of messages is to just try again. 17:16:54 Heheh... 17:22:52 Hmm, even updating ssh keys did not help... 17:26:11 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:26:53 -!- derekv [~user@ip-216-36-86-104.iad.megapath.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:32 LiamH: Ok, fixed 17:27:43 Sikander: Good. I'm off to lunch, back in half an hour or so. 17:27:58 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.205] has joined #lisp 17:28:01 See you later. I might be out for dinner then 17:31:13 maxm: When you say per-column storage, you mean that you fake an array by having a list of vectors? 17:32:17 Sikander: usually the storage is not homogenous, so it's more like transposing an array of structures into a structure of arrays. 17:33:28 Aha. Never have that problem myself; I generally have either vectors or matrices. 17:33:40 Physics, it's just too simple. 17:33:44 well I have a simple-array for each column, ie for above example, I would have a (defstruct tick-series ((time nil :type (simple-array (* (unsigned-byte 32)))) ...)) and so on, with effient macros defined for adding to series (which would double the array each time its size limit had been reached), and a (with-tick-series) macro that has all kinds of fancy macrolets for accessing columns very efficently 17:34:22 Nice 17:34:46 oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-8-180.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:34:59 so for example average of all ticks would be (defun avg-price (ticks) (let ((sum 0)) (/ (with-tick-series (ticks :index i) (incf sum price)) (series-length ticks)))) 17:36:39 Dammit, lisp is just magic 17:36:56 and (with--series) macro has all kinds of fancy syntax sugar for easily accessing columns, shifted columns, offset columns etc... The main advantage is that its all typed and wrapped in (the 'underlaying-type (the underlaying-array-type) array-var) (aref )) stuff, so it compiles into very efficent code 17:37:37 on a decent compiler, the declarations are useless. 17:38:10 commercial only, or even sbcl? 17:38:25 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:38:40 no I can send it to you but it has lots of dependencies, demacs, iterate, sstefil 17:38:48 let me make github project 17:39:10 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:39:29 pkhuong: I had cases where the declarations where appreciated by SBCL even for quite simple code that somehow would slip by 17:39:57 zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-86-4-136.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:38 p_l|backup: When assignment is involved, things get hairy. But aref on a typed array should be fine, same for declaring the variable's type instead of each of its uses. 17:41:40 pkhuong: I usually had hints about adding declarations for values returned from other functions or lambdas 17:41:56 hmm how do you create github repository, I alreardy have an account? 17:42:41 maxm: It says "new repository" in a black button on the right hand side of your home page 17:42:42 p_l|backup: yeah, that's harder. You can declare function types, but those are somewhat unsafe on SBCL. 17:43:26 maxm: Regardless of the dependencies, I'd like to see the code; I could learn from it... perhaps... 17:43:56 damn button is invisible coz my minimum font is set 17:44:04 github ui designers blow 17:44:29 maxm: the button is next to the "Your Repositories" header 17:45:01 pkhuong: still, we have CL:THE :) 17:45:54 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:47:26 p_l|backup: and people see that, don't think too much and figure they should sprinkly declarations everywhere they can think of. Code slows down because of the additional checks, they turned safety to 0. And "Lisp is only fast if you make it unreadable with declarations and turn unsafe mode on". 17:47:27 ok its called cl-maxlib.git on github (someone figure out the public url) 17:47:41 pkhuong: true 17:47:47 any tool can be misused 17:47:51 you'll need demacs, alexandria, stefil, iterate, closer-mop 17:48:04 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:48:17 personally, I usually don't care, though sometimes I set (speed 3) and read through notices 17:48:27 amazingly I even documented most of it in defseries.lisp 17:49:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:49:14 maxm: hum, what's your username on github? 17:49:18 7max 17:49:40 p_l|backup: some tools have a higher misuse ratio than others. 17:49:42 ah I guesss the public url includes my username also? git@github.com:7max/cl-maxlib.git 17:50:50 actually, it's git://github.com/7max/cl-maxlib.git 17:51:01 Thanks 17:51:56 oudeis_ [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:52:13 Ok, time for me to get some dinner. 17:52:27 -!- Sikander [~userid@5356F49F.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:53:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.205] has joined #lisp 17:53:50 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-8-180.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:56:32 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:56:57 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:57:25 oudeis_ [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 17:58:04 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-13-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:00:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:02:32 pkhuong: well honestly when writing this stuff, I started with no declaration, then added (declare ()) variables etc, then looked at disassembly, and only added (the ...) clarifiers where it was not picking them up from declarations 18:02:35 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:02:53 -!- Amyn1 [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:19 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:05:44 _3b: i found the cl-store works very well 18:06:01 i have routinely saved/restored 3-4 gig blobs 18:07:18 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:09:04 D'oh, my statement the other day that (loop for i below (length v) when (elt v i) collect i) == (map 'list #'values `(nth-value 1 (remove-if-not 'aref (ports (t :index) ,v)))) in the upcoming Loopless 2.0 was utterly wrong :( Sorry about that. It's not implemented yet so I can't verify results in the REPL... 18:10:07 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:04 It shouldn't be too hard to make a portability library that takes the implementation-specific representation of backquote and converts it to a portable representation, right?... This way compiler-macros could "look inside" backquoted expressions for the purpose of optimizations... 18:12:13 Hexstream: it would be even easier to write a standard reader macro for `. 18:12:21 I mean, "standard". 18:12:28 This seems much more simple and robust than the usual idea of replacing the ` reader-macro to output a portable representation... 18:13:05 To me, writing a reader macro sounds simplier and more robust. 18:13:10 oudeis_ [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:13:14 It's "simpler". 18:15:50 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:12 npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has joined #lisp 18:16:24 Just converting the implementation-specific representation to a portable representation when needed is certainly less intrusive. For instance, you don't even need to modify the pretty-pretter if you don't need to output it. The rest of the system doesn't need to know about your very local conversion. 18:17:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.205] has joined #lisp 18:17:46 Hexstream: cl-quasi-quote seems to think it's nicer to go with installing their own reader macros. 18:19:25 With you own reader macro, you have conforming code working on all conforming implementations. With a compatibility library, it fails on yet another implementation the library doesn't support. 18:20:53 pjb: Right, but in my case it's only for compiler-macros so on unsupported implementations you'd just have slower code. And I'm assuming converting from implementation-specific to portable representation should be straightforward enough so any implementation worth using would be supported quickly. 18:21:13 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-129-251.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:21:38 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 18:21:43 Hexstream: with bit rot, eventually your compiler macros won't be useful at all, on all the implementations. 18:21:55 The question is, if making a portable reader-macro that does the right thing is that easy, why hasn't the backquote representation been de-facto standardized yet? 18:22:21 The CDR process is recent. Write a new CDR. 18:22:57 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:14 a number of implementors are watching the CDR process. 18:24:25 and CDRs have been implemented. 18:24:44 "recent"? Apparently it has existed since 2006 at least. 18:24:57 Or do you mean "current" or something? 18:24:58 ... that's kinda recent for CL, I guess 18:24:59 1989 is recent in Lisp terms 18:25:05 Hah... 18:25:14 2006 is recent in Common Lisp terms 18:25:32 Agreed. 18:25:48 ABCL is a young implementation (stemming from 2003) 18:26:21 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 18:26:24 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:28:47 jil [~maliky@83.229.34.3] has joined #lisp 18:28:53 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:29:33 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:34 -!- jil [~maliky@83.229.34.3] has left #lisp 18:29:55 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.205] has joined #lisp 18:30:12 oudeis_ [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:33:46 pnq [~nick@ACA39905.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:26 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 18:35:44 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:36:20 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 18:37:55 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:38:58 ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:42 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:43:38 ikki [~ikki@189.139.182.103] has joined #lisp 18:43:53 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 18:48:30 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:56:15 oudeis [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:05:27 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:18 oudeis [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:07:49 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.215.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:16 -!- capivara [~capivara@201.86.14.82.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: capivara] 19:20:43 HG` [~HG@p5DC05C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:49 lol, 8 lisp years is like 1 or 2 in other parts of IT 19:22:34 markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 19:22:50 CDR = critical design review? 19:25:42 Common lisp Document Repository, RenJuan 19:25:49 ah 19:29:41 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 19:29:44 LiamH1 [~nobody@pool-108-18-160-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:07 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:30:21 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:15 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:00 RenJuan: what do you mean by that? 19:34:08 (8 vs 2?) 19:34:23 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:35:15 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:30 y 19:38:53 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:41:06 although iirc that's about when sbcl forked from cmucl 19:43:09 francogrex [~user@109.130.187.106] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:23 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:49:55 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@89-139-48-45.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:52:11 what does :use in defpackage do? it's not the same as :import 19:53:13 it automatically imports every symbol other package exported 19:53:18 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:53:19 ahh, i see 19:53:27 so use = import * from package 19:53:33 whereas import-from is specific? 19:53:49 and import-from can also import non-exported symbols? 19:53:50 yes, import-from lets you pick and choose 19:54:01 use is like python's from x import * 19:54:11 import-from is like pythons from x import blah 19:54:19 yes 19:54:23 great, thanks 19:54:37 still not sure on what interning exactly does aside from marking the symbol as used 19:55:01 i'm guessing it also imports the value/function bound to the symbol? 19:55:22 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:55:32 -!- dl [~download@dhcp95.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:37 no value/function are properties of the symbol 19:55:45 you familiar with C/C++? 19:55:48 yes 19:55:49 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 19:56:32 basically somewhere inside of your lisp is struct Symbol { char *name;, char *package; void *value, void *function} 19:56:36 anvandare: interning creates a symbol if there's none already there. 19:57:00 when (eval) sees a form (some-symbol arg1 arg2) 19:57:05 maxm: very approximately 19:58:06 what it does is internally finds the some-symbol, gets its function definition (which in lisp is called (fdefinition 'symbol), then for arg1, it gets the symbol, and gets its value) 19:58:08 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RenJuan] 19:58:23 well I'm trying to explain to a new guy, so its easier to grasp 19:58:25 so when i talk about "foo" i'm talking about the symbol with the name "foo"? 19:58:49 i'm not that new! it's just been a while and i never really got it to "click" :P 19:59:07 generally in lisp everything is evaluated, evaluated means its value taken, so usually when you want to refer to the symbol itself, you say 'foo 19:59:18 or :foo (the keywords are special symbols which are auto-quoted) 19:59:36 maxm: actually, keywords are self-evaluating 19:59:42 ie. they return themselves 19:59:48 sorry 19:59:52 also it depends on a context, so when speaking about macros, ppl may refer to foo and mean the symbol foo, ie 'foo.. 19:59:56 their evaluation returns themselves 20:00:42 so 'foo is a way to talk about "foo" and not "5" ? (assuming foo is bound to 5) 20:00:43 anvandare: easiest way is just get slime / emacs installed and play with the REPL... 20:00:52 yes 20:01:22 but slime always crashes after a while :\ 20:01:34 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:40 anvandare: exactly. except that 'foo has both a value and a function slot 20:02:16 so you can do (foo foo) where the function of foo is + and the value of foo is 5 20:03:01 anvandare: hmm SBCL is extremely stable for most people, are you using SBCL? also what platform... actually I'm not sure about SBCL stability on win32 20:03:45 SBCL 1.0.45.0.debian on 2.6.38-10-generic-pae #46-Ubuntu 20:04:16 anyway, it's not really crashing, it's just that it doesn't go back to the read phase of the repl 20:04:24 so i guess "hangs" is a better term 20:04:41 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04:50 you sure it did not just popped the debugger? there will be an emacs buffer called "sldb/1" or such in your emacs 20:05:27 like if you type (/ 1 0), debugger will pop-up saying you have exception, you have to do an action in the debugger (tell it to continue or abort or such) 20:06:09 i usually disable the debugger :P 20:06:42 anvandare: also if it says "connection closed", then one problem I found is that SBCL is very anal about coding systems. For example if you open SBCL connection with slime using latin-1, and then SBCL has to print utf-8 string on that output, it can't convert it to latin1, and disconnects. 20:07:07 so you need to start your slime like so: 20:07:09 (let ((inferior-lisp-program "/home/max/cvs/sbcl3/run-sbcl.sh") 20:07:10 (slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix)) 20:07:10 (slime args)) 20:07:11 it's not that the connexion is never established, it's just that it sometimes gives up 20:07:49 Why do you disable the debugger? 20:08:08 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 20:08:28 or just do M-x customize-variable slime-net-coding-system 20:08:38 because it's rarely helpful or needed 20:08:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-34.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:49 slime's default choice of latin-1 honestly sucks, since it causes SBCL to drop connection when anything UTF-8 passes through the pipe 20:09:20 all i need is an error message, not to be dropped into a limbo where i have to press awkward buttons to get back to editing 20:09:56 basically until you get the stable REPL, you will not get far in learning lisp, so fix your stability problems first, and then continue... I'm probably 80% sure its the utf-8 problem, I hit it every time I'm setting up new emacs 20:10:04 i can understand its use in more advanced programming layers, but right now it's about as useful as: "compilation failed, run old executable?" 20:10:35 anvandare: Q will exit (quit) the debugger... 20:10:40 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:10:51 anvandare: I find slime great in providing context help 20:11:18 Hexstream: i know, it just breaks my flow :P 20:11:19 when I'm writing code, it autocompletes what I'm doing. that way, I don't need to remember the exact arguments to every function and macr 20:11:28 macro 20:11:28 anvandare: That's nonsense. 20:12:24 not really, why do i have to acknowledge the error message? 20:12:37 imagine instead of a flush of error messages in compiling, you'd get a popup every time 20:12:48 because you doing stuff interactively 20:13:00 It's not just an error message. For instance there might be restarts you can invoke. In fact Q just invokes a restart. 20:13:02 you should not get into the debugger when you are compiling.. What is your work-flow? 20:13:20 why would i want to restart when it's obvious it's because i mis-laid a ) somewhere? 20:13:33 are you typing stuff in REPL? Or are you editing a file and compiling with C-C C-k? Or are you editing a file and reload the current block with C-c C-c? 20:13:35 And you can explore the stack, and possibly even restart a frame after having fixed a problem. 20:13:59 but I don't need the stack, I rarely program that deeply 20:14:10 90% of the time, it's a typo 20:14:30 anvandare: If you're working in such a way that's it possible to mislay a ), you're Doing It Wrong ;P 20:14:41 slime has evaluation hooks 20:14:43 Inserting () and putting the cursor inside should be just one keypress. 20:14:56 it's quite possible to make a semantic mis-) in a way that it's still syntactically correct :P 20:15:17 And to navigate an s-expression you use commands such as C-M-f, C-M-b, etc. 20:15:19 you can hook them up and wrap every block in (ignore-errors) or actually into (handler-case (eval (stuff)) (error (c) (format t "there was an error ~s" c))) 20:15:33 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:16:16 C-M-k and C-y (basically s-expression cut&paste) is also extremely useful. 20:16:36 *maxm* is proud vimpulse user, my stuctural editing hacks are out of this world... I can dd the lines in let, or "o" on a cond, and it does DWIM thing 20:16:54 limetree [~ircuser@li147-249.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:33 And there's C-M-a and C-M-e to navigate from one top-level expression to the next. And C-M-u to go "up" to the outside s-expression (doesn't work from inside strings unfortunately). 20:19:30 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:20:29 ot: whats the emacs to reload a changed file?(if i try to edit it, it offers the little menu in the minibuffer, among them is reload) 20:20:37 emacs shortcut* 20:20:45 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.85.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:00 C-c C-k? 20:21:06 (i know about c-x c-v) 20:21:10 ill try 20:21:10 i think just finding file again does it, or it autodetects when you try to edit it 20:21:10 That compiles and loads, which is usually what you want. 20:21:17 ah, no, any file 20:21:21 or in viper/vimpulse its just :e 20:21:29 Oh., that. 20:21:54 Yeah, C-x C-v RET. 20:21:56 maxm: so there is a shortcut 20:22:15 the problem is, for example im in hexl mode 20:22:25 if i hit cx cv ret, the mode is gone too 20:22:40 no shortcut would be same as find-file, ie C-x C-f 20:23:45 c-x c-f brings up the last directory, not the file, ret takes me to dired mode 20:24:37 doh, I thought it would be same as M-x load-file or byte-compile-file 20:24:47 i googled this, im only asking cause i didnt find useful info 20:25:11 I guess there is none, at least none that I could find 20:27:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:46 m-x revert-buffer, this is the command that does the reload, now i only have to find the shortcut without confirmation for it :) 20:27:50 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:41 heh I'm bad with synonyms... /me searched for "abandon", "discard", "reload" "undo" but forgot revert 20:29:03 finding the shortcut is F1 w (where is) 20:29:09 if its not in that list, its not bound 20:29:38 or just F1 f revert-buffer and it should tell in the help buffer what keys its bound to 20:30:24 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 20:30:25 you can always bind it yourself with (global-set-key "\C-cr" 'revert-buffer) 20:30:55 Or equivalently, C-h w. C-h C-h for a list of all available help commands, very useful. You can use C-h after a prefix for a list of commands with that prefix, for instance C-c C-h in a slime buffer will list most slime commands. 20:31:13 maxm: thank, you are handy(trinity to the keymaker) 20:31:23 s 20:32:50 i have a two page emacs reference card printout, unfortunately it didnt have the revert command, i guess because it isnt bound to a shortcut by default 20:34:03 yesterday i found out about C-g g 20:34:19 i missed that one from vim very much 20:34:23 usually when trying to find stuff, you do some F1 a (apropos command), or F1 d (apropos documentation) 20:34:43 yeah, i will in the future, ill get used to it 20:34:55 with icicles (advanced completion system), I usually just do M-x keyword and it completes everything that contains keyword 20:38:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-94.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:38:58 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 20:39:10 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:23 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-164.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:39:42 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:44 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:41:11 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-94.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45:47 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:47:10 Tiri [~chatzilla@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 20:48:40 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-164.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:48:44 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-164.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:49:06 -!- Tiri [~chatzilla@41.221.159.83] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603]] 20:49:53 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:22 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 20:57:38 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:57:47 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:59:50 oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has joined #lisp 21:05:53 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:49 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 21:08:54 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:10:43 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:13:49 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:31 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:25:05 -!- LiamH1 [~nobody@pool-108-18-160-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:36 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26:55 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:27:05 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:20 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:34 Blzn [~artus@187.58.43.90] has joined #lisp 21:31:08 -!- markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:40 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:35:08 -!- Blzn [~artus@187.58.43.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 21:40:36 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 21:40:36 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:42:57 *maxm* cries after looking at his long term portfolio 21:43:17 afraid to open the IRA one 21:46:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 21:48:09 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.205] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:50:33 -!- em is now known as botten_emma 21:51:03 -!- botten_emma is now known as boten_emma 21:54:38 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:54:41 i have a file of code that creates a package, switches to it, and runs a few things... except it doesn't work :/ 21:54:59 in what way? 21:55:25 erm, well... it does what it's supposed to do... but when it ends I get left at the package I started out of 21:55:41 is there a way around that? 21:55:59 anvandare: no. by design. CL:LOAD binds CL:*PACKAGE* before loading, so it's always restored to its previous value. 21:56:05 that is a very handy feature. 21:56:43 it also binds CL:*READTABLE* 21:56:48 i guess... but what if I have a set of things I want to run in every package I create? 21:57:13 You could write your own defpackage variation to do that. 21:57:20 -!- boten_emma is now known as em 21:57:33 return the package in a different variable 21:57:55 ie (defvar *newly-created-package*), then in your file (setq *newly-created-package *package*) 21:57:57 There are many ways to solve the problem 21:59:28 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 22:00:36 adeht [void@common.lisp.su] has joined #lisp 22:00:41 peoppenheimer [~peoppenhe@ip98-167-187-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:51 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:33 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:03 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 22:02:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07:08 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:34 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:05 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 22:11:39 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 22:11:51 hi 22:11:52 how do I force reloading all the asdf systems, after for example changing optimization settings? 22:15:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.187.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:01 and by all I mean foo and it's dependencies in (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :foo) 22:16:41 compile times getting to 10 seconds for 1000 line file, time to split up 22:16:42 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :foo :force t) ? 22:17:06 dont do it, unless they fixed it it will recompile all dependencies 22:17:09 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:22 , delete-system-fasls 22:17:28 then load-system again 22:17:53 *maxm* has a hack for per-optimization-policy FASL directory, which works great 22:18:23 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124027 22:22:54 that's interesting 22:28:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-220-122.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:03 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 22:33:13 Guest__ [~textual@ip98-167-187-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:18 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-13-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:34:38 -!- peoppenheimer [~peoppenhe@ip98-167-187-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: peoppenheimer] 22:34:47 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:22 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:03 -!- Guest__ is now known as peoppenheimer 22:39:37 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has joined #lisp 22:42:50 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:43:38 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:49:19 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 22:50:15 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@c-76-19-67-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:35 -!- dlowe_nb [~dlowe@c-76-19-67-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:01 dlowe_nb [~dlowe@c-76-19-67-211.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:15 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-129-251.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:38 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 23:02:32 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:10 -!- peoppenheimer [~textual@ip98-167-187-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 23:10:10 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 23:15:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:26 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA39905.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:21:47 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:26 H4ns```` [~user@p4FFC98B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:07 -!- H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC836D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:31:00 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:00 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:33:03 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 23:37:55 ignas [~ignas@user-109-243-136-187.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:37:55 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:11 -!- ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:45:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@user-109-243-136-187.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:46:15 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has joined #lisp 23:48:03 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:53:35 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:55 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:34 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:10 ignas [~ignas@user-188-33-162-22.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:58:43 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:58:52 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]