00:00:46 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:01:23 -!- Guthur [~michael@212.183.128.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:02:53 benny` [~benny@i577A1346.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:02:53 -!- benny [~benny@i577A78F9.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:06 -!- benny` is now known as benny 00:04:26 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 00:06:56 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:43 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@231.125.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:00 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 00:14:17 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:00 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:30:04 capivara [~capivara@186.215.32.100] has joined #lisp 00:33:33 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:34:04 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 00:36:22 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Client Quit] 00:39:37 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 00:40:15 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-144-92.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:16 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-144-92.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:40:16 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 00:43:25 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has joined #lisp 00:43:55 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:23 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has joined #lisp 00:52:57 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 00:53:32 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 00:55:39 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:57:20 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:58:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-kgqynsuxxqjohykq] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:59:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:12 spetrea [~spetrea@188.40.234.194] has joined #lisp 01:00:13 cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has joined #lisp 01:00:13 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has quit [Changing host] 01:00:13 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:00:41 I don't know LISP, but I want to use this https://github.com/filonenko-mikhail/restmax 01:00:48 so I just use quicklisp to install restas 01:00:53 which is some sort of thing for REST interfaces 01:01:03 anyway, now I can't figgure out how to start restmax 01:01:34 anyone any ideas ? 01:06:04 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:17 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:06:56 mz39-42 [bc1a316f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.26.49.111] has joined #lisp 01:07:01 any lisp fans here ? I don't know squat about lisp but I wanna run this https://github.com/filonenko-mikhail/restmax 01:07:17 mz39-42: please don't spam. 01:07:31 pkhuong: hey .. man .. sorry .. 01:09:39 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:12 -!- elliottcable is now known as fuuuuuuuuuck 01:15:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-145-43.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:15:38 -!- fuuuuuuuuuck is now known as elliottcable 01:16:39 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:26 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-66-118.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:19:11 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:51 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:26:49 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:26:55 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:27:12 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rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:50 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-xwvbdquwiubyxjzi] has joined #lisp 03:00:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-xwvbdquwiubyxjzi] has quit [Changing host] 03:00:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:03:06 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:01 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082BD5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:10 -!- Younder [~john@238.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:10 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326939.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:15:27 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:16:32 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:52 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zmfejegpqqngzhjt] has joined #lisp 03:19:31 -!- cfy` [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:01 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:20:21 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:20:27 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:21:16 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:22 Good morning everyone! 03:24:29 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:24:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:11 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:25:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 03:25:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:55 cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has joined #lisp 03:25:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.40.171] has quit [Changing host] 03:25:55 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:29:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:35:32 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 03:36:29 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:36:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 03:36:50 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:36:57 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 03:37:29 Speaking of Hoopless... (loop for i from 0 below (length v) when (elt v i) collect i) 03:37:39 = (map 'list #'values `(nth-value 1 (remove-if-not 'aref (ports (t :index) ,v)))). Looks like fun? ;P 03:38:09 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 03:38:33 Anyway, g2g. (I'll read the logs.) 03:38:34 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 03:38:39 M-x_slime [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:44 -!- Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:21 ellise [~ellise@125.160.83.53] has joined #lisp 03:42:44 -!- ellise [~ellise@125.160.83.53] has left #lisp 03:43:29 -!- spetrea [~spetrea@188.40.234.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:27 spetrea [~spetrea@188.40.234.194] has joined #lisp 03:48:11 -!- M-x_slime [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:49:25 M-x_slime [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:11 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:50:36 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:57:02 ellise [~ellise@125.160.83.53] has joined #lisp 03:57:09 -!- ellise [~ellise@125.160.83.53] has left #lisp 03:58:15 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:59:02 -!- mz39-42 [bc1a316f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.26.49.111] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:01:54 -!- M-x_slime [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:02:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:22 -!- cryptopsy [~cryptopsy@unaffiliated/aborticide] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:04:51 zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-86-3-223.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:33 -!- zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-86-3-223.tys.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 04:05:59 cryptopsy [~cryptopsy@unaffiliated/aborticide] has joined #lisp 04:06:33 M-x_slime [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:41 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:30 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 04:10:16 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:38 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:01 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:11:14 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 04:20:46 -!- cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:02 cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:38 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:26:46 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 04:27:21 -!- cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:28:20 BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.224.204.29] has joined #lisp 04:28:52 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:05 (who-ps-html (:p "t0" (:span "t1"))), evals to an error 04:34:33 -!- capivara [~capivara@186.215.32.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:34:51 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@117.224.204.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:35:45 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:37:19 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:38 good morning all 04:39:00 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:40 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180103128.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:48:36 Hunden [~Hunden@e180103240.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:54:46 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ultwqluimkwsoxfg] has joined #lisp 04:54:48 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ultwqluimkwsoxfg] has quit [Changing host] 04:54:48 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:12:06 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:17:35 -!- macrobat 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phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-144-92.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:37:19 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 06:42:10 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:43:29 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46:41 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:52:50 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 06:53:36 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:55:55 -!- zelak_ [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:58:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-34.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:00:54 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:01:30 good morning 07:02:36 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:46 morning 07:03:58 YAY! I acquired ABCL.ORG!! 07:05:21 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 07:05:24 hello 07:05:43 what unit test frameworks are usually recommended? I'm a little overwhelmed by choice here. http://www.cliki.net/Test%20Framework 07:06:09 shaggy-: it really depends on your preference... 07:06:28 personally, I like the simplicity of RT, but others find it too restricting. 07:09:07 I'll check a couple and then decide. what are a couple that are used the most? 07:09:11 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:45 shaggy-: I know about LIFT, FiveAM and RT 07:11:57 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 07:11:59 the others don't ring a bell 07:14:16 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 07:15:43 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:45 sellout1 [~Adium@68-113-185-126.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:17:45 sellout2 [~Adium@68-113-185-126.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:18:01 -!- cryptopsy [~cryptopsy@unaffiliated/aborticide] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:18:12 -!- sellout [~Adium@68-113-185-126.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:32 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:21:23 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@68-113-185-126.dhcp.krny.ne.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:22:06 X-Scale` [email@89.180.231.131] has joined #lisp 07:22:58 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:23:14 Did anyone look at shake-lisp-and-die in the last few years? http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2005-07-06.html 07:24:57 mostly people have whined a bit about how 40MB executables are too big. No-one's provided a strong incentive to overcome the pain of maintaining anything like shake-lisp-and-die 07:25:29 And now memories are 4 times the size for 1/4 times the price, so nobody cares anymore. 07:25:39 Just as we told you 6 years ago. 07:25:45 well, people still care, but not enough to do anything about it 07:25:55 And it only took 6 years to do. :) 07:26:30 At this rate, we'll just have to wait another 4 years to everything else to fix itself. 07:29:08 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:10 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-171-51.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 07:29:26 I still feel uneasy about having a package of > 30MB when I know that the same in C would be less than 100kB (executable) ... 07:30:14 Amyn [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has joined #lisp 07:30:43 So, use ECL. 07:30:46 flip214: put in the shared libraries and gcc and see how it goes 07:30:55 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-174-162.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:31:03 Then it will only be 2 meg. :) 07:33:50 -!- lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:35:39 Zhivago: I tried ... but with a few libraries I get a 7MB ecl.so, and an executable of 11MB ... and that's without any real code (which won't amount to anything, anyway) 07:36:00 Fair enough. 07:36:43 drdo: the shared libraries for a C program are installed "anyway" on the system, they don't have to be in my package ... so they don't "count" the same way. 07:38:01 Did you try statically linking with ECL? 07:38:15 I don't remember the shared library being 7 meg, either. 07:38:16 jdz [~jdz@host187-105-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:39:34 Zhivago: well ok, it's a bit over 8MB 07:39:37 # ls -la /usr/local/lib/libecl.so -L 07:39:37 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root staff 8636077 11. Aug 20:37 /usr/local/lib/libecl.so 07:39:46 I remember something like 2. 07:39:49 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:39:55 I wonder why it's so large, now. 07:40:14 and statically linking gave me something like 11MB for a "hello, world" executable, without any libraries IIRC 07:40:20 -!- pjb is now known as Guest23107 07:40:49 -!- Guest23107 is now known as pjb 07:41:42 perhaps sbcl's shake-lisp-and-die should get included, so that it's kept up-to-date .. 07:42:32 perhaps. How much are you willing to pay for that? 07:42:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.95.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:43:00 I'm willing to play with that in the train .... 07:43:10 For how much would you "just do it"? 07:43:20 the problem is the ongoing maintenance 07:43:36 the feature does no good if it bit-rots in seconds. 07:43:42 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.95.206] has joined #lisp 07:44:34 I don't really want to quote because I'm not in the lisp implementation support business. 07:44:51 well, I'd think that the most work would be keeping the variable lists up to date - which SBCL things to keep, etc 07:45:19 well, here's the alternative: you could do it, see how much work it is. If you need it anyway... 07:45:46 well, if there's a way to get a single-file executable core with about 15MB size I think I could live with that ... the example said 11MB without any libs 07:45:52 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:46:22 gzexe 07:46:27 flip214: Why exactly do you care about the size? 07:46:29 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:46:50 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 07:49:59 drdo: perhaps it's just me being old-fashioned (get off my lawn!!), but I'd like to keep the package size as small as possible. 07:50:14 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-cogjdlnwrjaceggw] has joined #lisp 07:50:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-168-76.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:50:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-168-76.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 07:50:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:51:08 -!- jdz [~jdz@host187-105-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:53:12 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-28-62.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:54:44 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:31 flip214: so I ask again, what's it worth? 07:55:35 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has joined #lisp 07:56:57 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:40 Well, for me personally? Of course I'd like to enhance my Language of Choice, but that doesn't pay the rent. 07:58:11 I could start asking some people whether they would pay for that ... 08:01:02 Of course, the willingness to pay depends on the results obtained ... if the core shrinks from 80MB to 77MB it's harder to qualify than if the result is 7MB 08:01:51 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02:16 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:19 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.140] has joined #lisp 08:02:33 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 08:03:32 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.140] has quit [Client Quit] 08:04:10 flip214: I can write you a lisp implementation that takes very little space, the only downsize is that it will be really slow 08:04:28 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.140] has joined #lisp 08:04:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-31.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:05:41 if you use your language of choice to pay the rent, and the addition of this feature would help you to pay the rent more efficiently, you could quantify that benefit 08:06:14 I even thought about using ECL to build .o files with -ffunction-sections, and then doing some linker magic (with self-defined functions for eg. eval) -lgc to get a smaller executable ... 08:06:25 even if it is a small quantity for you that could add up between lots of users. (But usually the quantification ends up as $0/year or something indistinguishable) 08:06:30 Kryztof: that's the problem. lisp doesn't pay my rent. 08:06:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:06:49 well, if you had this feature would it be closer to paying your rent? 08:07:16 it's harder to quantify hobby-time benefits, of course 08:08:31 sadly lisp is still just a hobby for me ... 08:08:37 lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:23 if there only would be a simple way to get nice, small, efficient, fast executables from lisp, perhaps I could convince my employer to sponsor that a bit... ;) 08:10:57 Why does he care about "small"? 08:11:06 Was about to ask the same 08:11:10 He doesn't (yet)... 08:11:46 flip214: my common lisp fits into an 8MB archive 08:11:48 Maybe this is an imaginary problem. :) 08:11:54 flip214: is that small enough? 08:12:04 if not, do you use Microsoft Word? 08:12:10 meta43 [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has joined #lisp 08:12:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:12:18 (if so, why?) 08:12:20 But while for a big application (like a CRM or something like that) it's totally ok to have a binary of 100MB, small things (in the class like /bin/ls) shouldn't be a package of >20MB 08:12:45 the 8MB is a shared library. 08:12:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:59 ehu: ecl? 08:12:59 ls is bound to glibc too. 08:13:06 flip214: abcl 08:13:07 flip214: that's easy, just write a shell in lisp and implement all the coreutils as functions within it :D 08:13:41 flip214: http://common-lisp.net/project/armedbear/ 08:13:43 flip214: you can just use a very small interpreter for things like that 08:14:06 abcl comes with a compiler, but it should be easy enough to strip that out. 08:14:12 well, I'll just stop here. I keep repeating myself. I *don't* want to re-implement /bin/ls, just something of similar complexity. 08:14:37 flip214: or just sbcl --script 08:14:39 flip214: abcl and ecl are shared libraries 08:14:51 flip214: so, the app itself won't be big. 08:15:00 ehu: I did look at abcl yesterday ... but it stumbles upon loading of cl-interpol, and so I haven't looked at it anymore 08:15:01 To put this into perspective, node (of node.js) is 9 meg before considering shared libraries. 08:15:11 And people don't seem to have problems with that. 08:15:22 flip214: why did you not report the problem? (or did you?) 08:15:36 flip214: our development team tries to address issues like that in matters of days. 08:15:50 ehu: not yet, I found that out yesterday and wanted to look at it a bit - in case there's a misconfiguration or something like that. 08:16:03 we have in the past fixed problems in a matter of hours, even. 08:16:15 I just did (ql:quickload :cl-interpol) and some others in my .abclrc, and got this error 08:16:37 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 08:17:00 ok. I'll have a look at it. 08:18:25 in case that helps, I get "java.lang.ClassFormatError: Unknown constant tag 40 in class file org/armedbear/lisp/ASDF_TMP_hash_tables_2" 08:21:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.140] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 08:22:34 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:26:40 -!- meta43 [~jgw@216.99.214.24] has left #lisp 08:27:57 btw, that's with abcl-0.26.2-svn-13500-fasl37-win-x86 08:29:33 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has joined #lisp 08:31:09 ah. that's a compiler error. I'd estimate an overflow of some kind. 08:31:14 thanks, that does help. 08:33:48 flip214: ah. that's probably from cl-unicode. 08:34:21 yup. 08:34:23 it is. 08:34:43 being unable to compile cl-unicode is a known problem. 08:34:43 http://trac.common-lisp.net/armedbear/ticket/116 08:34:44 might be ... I'm doing (ql:quickload :cl-ppcre) (ql:quickload :iterate) (ql:quickload :alexandria) (ql:quickload :cl-interpol) in my .rc 08:34:54 I'll see about fixing that as a priority now. 08:35:28 " milestone changed from 0.25 to 0.26", "from 0.26 to 0.27", ... ;) 08:35:32 thanks a lot 08:37:01 What I don't understand ... why is abcl a 8MB _shared library_? it's a .jar for me ... that does count the same in context of a JVM, I suppose 08:37:56 yea. the point is that you can put it in the class path; you don't need to put it into the application every time. 08:40:44 I want my C program to call one of my Lisp functions (for synchronization). The lisp image has a swank-server running (because I'm editting with slime). I hope that I can inject an instruction from my C program into the swank socket that will do the same as if I ran C-M-x (slime-eval-defun) on this function within slime. Is that possible? Can anyone give me a pointer on the protocol how slime communicates on the swank socket? 08:49:20 -!- freeroute [d590fca1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.144.252.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:52:00 hu is this the one you use? looks a bit outdated? RT - Short for "regression testing", an older (last update 1995) 08:52:09 ehu* 08:52:53 shaggy-: common lisp dates from 1989... 08:52:55 ehu: another question ... abcls homepage says "ABCL is covered by the GNU General Public License with Classpath exception, meaning that you can use ABCL in your application without the requirement to open the sources to your application. " 08:53:08 flip214: right. 08:53:14 misoczki [~misoczki@2001:660:3013:3:222:19ff:fe24:d155] has joined #lisp 08:53:16 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:53:26 while the README says "Linking this software statically or dynamically with other modules is making a combined work based on this software. Thus, the terms and conditions of the GNU General Public License cover the whole combination." 08:53:31 that's a contradiction, isn't it? 08:54:01 (README in the binary distribution) 08:54:05 flip214: it's the same license as Java was originally distributed with. 08:54:14 hmm. that's probably not the right wording then. 08:54:46 well, what gives? 08:55:47 BTW, did you try to use executables in android via dalvik? 08:57:17 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-171-51.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:33 -!- Amyn [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:00:37 Amyn [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has joined #lisp 09:02:41 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:03:08 flip214: re ABCL on Android, not yet. Not enough time. 09:04:26 But the patches are public, so others can pick up the work... 09:13:37 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 09:15:54 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:16:58 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:26:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:01:13 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:13 17:01:13 -!- names: ccl-logbot _6502_ pearle_ algal Bike gravicappa Athas Bucciarati attila_lendvai REPLeffect jewel Amadiro La0fer gemelen jdz yroeht tsanhwa anvandare lundis dmiles incandenza bugQ antoszka gko M-x_slime homie mathrick macrobat pearle Vivitron rfg xan_ urandom__ milanj c_arenz ikki capivara epps wormwood rmarianski msmith1 nikodemus mrSpec kushal LiamH Yuuhi DGASAU srid rvncerr jsnell Oddity gffa ChibaPet madnificent setmeaway pavelludiq HG` H4ns 17:01:13 -!- names: markskilbeck chturne pdelgallego froggey ihyoyoung ignotus sacho nha lucca The_third_man spacefrogg pjb Salamander_ mishoo_ cyrillos mducharme Hunden rtoym parabolize plage daniel__1 gigamonkey super__ martinhex ISF guther Jasko kennyd benny bandu ZabaQ1 Nshag Harag rpg sebyte flip214 sykopomp Intensity dfox naryl TristamWrk rread mornfall jiacobucci rtoyg McMAGIC--Copy RenJuan hyoyoung dlowe billstclair Kryztof sanjoyd prip lonstein jamief Deesl pchrist 17:01:13 -!- names: mk2 _pw_` hyko wivlaro slyrus drdo katesmith bege ineiros ianmcorvidae lnostdal sonnym dRbiG Demosthenes ch077179 zort- Pepe_ ocharles literal Tordek kpal BrianRice loke jweiss Euthydemus otwieracz Xof araujo Phoodus mon_key tali713 phryk xale tritchey cods cmatei s0ber Xach schoppenhauer cess11 levi EyesIsMine antifuchs SpitfireWP geoffhotchkiss felipe a7p cmbntr space-cadet cpt_nemo AntiSpamMeta bohanlon pinterface yahooooo ve nuba kjellkt OliverUv 17:01:13 -!- names: tychoish Obfuscate christoph_debian Patzy CrEddy housel zfx Jasko2 fmu Adrinael Tristam scharan Khisanth billitch derekv peterhil Ralith acieroid MasseR tsuru sbalousek em larva trigen daimrod eli esden phadthai quackv2 nicdev_ djinni` Aisling_ fe[nl]ix foocraft rabite kleppari_ freiksenet z0d dostoyevsky msmith fihi09`` rootzlevel tempire Hun bobbysmith007 p_l|backup _root_ Inode jeekl cataska cYmen stepnem xristos mikejs tty234 aoh bfein Posterdati 17:01:13 -!- names: kiooeht __mal easyE JuanDaugherty joast samebchase Elench DrForr ecraven tunes redline6561 srcerer __main__ njan koollman Yamazaki-kun scode tessier lichtblau Dodek C-Keen zakwilson clop CallToPower maxm _3b mgr elliottjohnson quasisane clog ski_ Borbus reb`` shachaf boyscared oGMo elliottcable tetsuharu morphling johs guaqua jrockway Iceland_jack pbusser3 ``Erik @Zhivago nullman finnrobi tomaw Axioplase_ derrida schme sbryant devhost zbigniew yan_ galdor 17:01:13 -!- names: eno Fade Mandus kanru albino dcrawford foom daedric rotty egn sirmacik luis mtd _krappie_ specbot ilmari felideon Jabberwockey PissedNumlock joshe j_king rsynnott pkhuong frodef tvaalen sshirokov krl hohum pok sid3k |3b| adeht df_aldur spacebat herbieB klutometis kloeri erg 17:01:26 <_6502_> hello :-) ... if a macro expands to a (progn (defmacro macro1 ...) (defun function1 ...)) can function1 use macro1? 17:02:49 you might have to wrap the macro1 definition in an eval-when 17:03:01 and it would only work on the top-level 17:03:29 urandom_ [~user@p548A1D8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:30 -!- pearle [~pearle@142.162.79.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:03:45 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:04:07 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:05:06 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4B02.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:26 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 17:06:16 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:06:18 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-212-199.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:07:05 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:07:42 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:06 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:11:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:13:15 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:13:23 <_6502_> antifuchs: I'm trying to understand eval-when but i'm a bit confused... in the first example there is (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (set-macro-character ...) 17:13:50 <_6502_> does this mean that when compiling normally set-macro-character forms are not executed? 17:14:25 set-macro-character is a normal function and is not executed until run-time unless Provisions are made otherwise 17:14:26 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:15:29 oh. I was wrong about needing the eval-when around the defmacro (: 17:15:38 "If a defmacro form appears as a top level form, the compiler must store the macro definition at compile time, so that occurrences of the macro later on in the file can be expanded correctly." 17:15:53 <_6502_> hmmm... now the confusion is complete... 17:16:45 to answer your question, if that macro is a top level form, the function1 body will be able to see macro1 17:17:48 and progn preserves toplevelness 17:18:15 <_6502_> so lisp is not just (eval (read)) ... :-/ 17:18:25 oh no (-: 17:18:26 _6502_: not when it comes to compilation. 17:18:35 file compilation, that is (: 17:19:14 <_6502_> what's the problem with compilation? i'm writing a compile-only version (there's no interpreter) and it's still (eval (read)) ... 17:19:35 No problem. 17:19:39 <_6502_> however sometimes i bounce in that defmacro problem because progn gets compiled when the macro doesn't exist yet 17:19:46 If you make your own rinky-dink Lisp you can do it as simply as you want. 17:19:54 <_6502_> so i've to do things at macro expansion time (and that's bad) 17:19:59 file compilation in CL is complicated by the compiler sometimes performing things that have side effects 17:20:20 for example, recording definitions that change the semantics of code that comes after these definitions. 17:20:31 <_6502_> like defmacro 17:20:34 for example 17:20:42 also, the macros, as they expand, can have side effects 17:21:00 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 17:21:46 <_6502_> so compile file is a different execution model, that ignores anything except defun defmacro defvar and the like? 17:21:58 CL attempts to remove the ambiguity w.r.t. the compiler, so you can have code that behaves exactly the same when it's file-compiled as when it's just loaded. 17:22:19 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:22:34 <_6502_> i thought the idea was load-load-load-load save-lisp-and-die 17:22:50 <_6502_> with compilation done at load time 17:22:55 nope 17:22:57 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:23:59 <_6502_> is this complexity really useful or just part of a committee effect when it had to make tons of lisp dialects existing implementation agree on a minimum cost effort? 17:23:59 compile-file expands macros and does some more things (see with-compilation-unit). but then you have to load the resulting file to get the defuns that are defined in the file, for example. 17:24:50 I think it's useful sometimes, and a huge pain sometimes (: 17:24:52 <_6502_> is there a good overview of this part of CL? 17:25:18 not sure. CLtL2 might give some insights on why some of this stuff is the way it is 17:25:23 <_6502_> just to know... i'm not going to implement such a madness in my little lisp 17:25:49 at least it explains the reasoning behind the compiler/evaluator-agnosticism 17:25:58 Things Were Worse Before 17:26:09 madness? Sometimes, not understanding something reflects more on you than the misunderstood thing. 17:26:10 yes, they were 17:26:38 <_6502_> i really don't understand this part... SBCL is a compiler-only implementation, why is compile-file needed in a lisp system? 17:26:39 separate compilation is a good thing. 17:26:42 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 17:26:58 _6502_: forward references (: 17:27:02 6502: compile-file imposes a number of semantic constraints on the code. 17:27:34 <_6502_> and that's good? 17:27:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:27:57 have you seen Really Clever CL Code? (: 17:28:06 6502: You might want to look at what they are. :) 17:28:30 6502: e.g., calls to functions in the same file need not respect the redefinition of those functions, etc. 17:29:05 So compile-file might be seen as turning the code in that file into a big labelishy thing. 17:29:38 <_6502_> i could do a big labelishy thing myself if i like it that way, no? 17:30:50 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:54 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:02 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 17:31:15 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:39 <_6502_> i was thinking to add to my toy a warning about calling a function with wrong numbers of parameters, for example. but it was going to be just a warning 17:31:59 <_6502_> now there's a warning when calling a function that has not been defined (yet) 17:32:18 <_6502_> (and a bad trick to shut up the warning for recursive functions, indeed) 17:33:03 <_6502_> (very bad actually... i'm doing a (setf (symbol-function 'foo) 42) at macro expansion time when processing defun) 17:33:53 <_6502_> i need to read a bit about this compile-time thing 17:34:05 -!- pearle_ [~pearle@142.162.228.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:34:06 <_6502_> so far looks like trying to make lisp more like java :-D 17:34:21 Oh, the onions 17:34:50 <_6502_> the onions? 17:35:38 of course. When common lisp was ratified in the early 90s, the goal was to approach an obscure language meant for set-top boxes. 17:41:04 6502 Separate compilation is a large part of it. 17:41:56 <_6502_> pkhuong: hehehe.. i simply mean that separate compilation looks like a bit against bottom-up incremental approach 17:41:57 -!- mk2 [~user@PCX112.ipht-jena.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has joined #lisp 17:43:16 ask the ITA people about it. They sure seem to like getting the minutes of their lives separate compilation saves them. 17:43:23 <_6502_> pkhuong: i wouldn't have been surprised that at least part of CL was not indeed logical or the mosto practical thing, but was there for example for historical/political reasons 17:44:20 <_6502_> pkhuong: but what's the logical difference between compiling a file and wrapping it up in a big (labels ...) ? 17:44:43 <_6502_> s/logical/logic/ 17:45:06 It's faster to load a fasl than to recompile a file is the difference. 17:45:08 pkhuong: the minutes add up, especially when you have to do complete rebuilds fairly often 17:45:32 pearle_ [~pearle@142.162.154.11] has joined #lisp 17:45:57 dlowe: I suffer C++ most of the day, I believe you ;) 17:47:19 hi 17:47:27 flip214: are you there? 17:48:25 -!- srid [u3297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wspfksuhcirnzkjm] has left #lisp 17:48:31 Posterdati: how do you know? just this minute 17:48:40 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:45 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:49:26 flip214: there's _6502_ here 17:49:43 <_6502_> yes? 17:50:01 yes, I already saw that ... been here at least a few weeks, if not months 17:50:43 <_6502_> i keep bouncing back when there's something i don't understand (that's quite often, actually) 17:50:50 google find some lines from 2010-04 ... 17:51:30 _6502_: inc $d020 17:51:35 <_6502_> lisp is sort of a part-time love. got more attention recently because i've been working on a project that takes ages to rebuild 17:52:06 which project? 17:53:11 <_6502_> posterdati: it's a C++/python project for an automatic cutting machine for leather/textile that includes a vision subsystem. to test it on the machine i've to make a deploy and that takes minutes... 17:53:35 _6502_: I just finished a cnc machine 17:53:43 for general cutting 17:53:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ll6LLGePYwM 17:54:15 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:54:24 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:02 <_6502_> posterdati: and btw i'm from Apple ][, $d020 is not that interesting :-D ... may be $C030 ... 17:55:29 _6502_: but you can increment $d020 as well 17:56:10 also from the BBC Micro 17:56:15 <_6502_> posterdati: that brings a good idea... I wanna try to write a 6502 emulator for my toy lisp compiler ... 17:56:41 <_6502_> posterdati: and the run plisp on it... hehehe 17:56:46 _6502_: on c64 there's a good lisp interpreter 17:57:02 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has joined #lisp 17:57:14 _6502_: embedded project? 17:57:20 <_6502_> posterdati: i already wrote a 6502 and apple ][ emulator, but it's in asm, nothing to save from there 17:57:52 _6502_: on linux? 17:58:08 _6502_: I mean your cutting machine 17:58:23 <_6502_> posterdati: you can find it in my dead homepage http://www.gripho.it ... 17:58:39 <_6502_> posterdati: nope :-( windows embedded. But we're working on it 17:58:42 _6502_: ma sei italiano? 17:58:52 <_6502_> posterdati: si :-) 17:58:58 _6502_: buahahaha 17:59:09 _6502_: tutto questo mi ricorda una vecchia barzelletta 17:59:40 please; English or elsewhere. 18:00:12 <_6502_> dinner time for me anyway.... i'll be back later 18:00:22 _6502_: ok 18:02:25 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:03:52 -!- markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:59 -!- _6502_ [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:04:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-212-199.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:05:31 Posterdati: is there anything online about this cnc machine? 18:05:59 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-13-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:06:34 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:07:14 BlankVerse 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wormwood [~wormwood@c-174-48-233-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@host120-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:47:17 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 18:47:50 EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 18:48:03 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.209.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:48:25 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:50:41 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:50:52 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:51:40 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:53:18 Fade: not so much 18:53:31 it will 18:53:45 the cnc machine serves to build piece for a drone 18:55:45 with a lisp machine on it :) 18:55:58 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-212-199.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:56:13 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:58:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:49 :) 19:03:55 sounds like an interesting project. 19:04:00 you should blog about it! 19:05:42 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:06:04 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has joined #lisp 19:10:14 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:10:15 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:35 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-13-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:17:27 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 19:23:10 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:17 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 19:27:51 zomgbie 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-!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:41 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CAC60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:06 -!- M-x_slime is now known as Pizza_Bro_Pizza 20:11:56 -!- bege_ is now known as bege 20:12:16 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:203:47ff:fe8f:f55] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:14:46 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:21 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:29 ASau [~user@95-26-244-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:18:36 hello. I have 3 fiveam's tests failing on clisp. is this a known issue? should it worry me? 20:18:57 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124139 20:19:06 -!- pearle_ [~pearle@142.162.154.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:16 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 20:19:45 pearle_ [~pearle@142.162.73.203] has joined #lisp 20:20:34 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21:45 pnq [~nick@ACA32E45.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:45 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:38 oudeis [~oudeis@212.25.69.18] has joined #lisp 20:30:01 Same result on clisp here. Have been using fiveam without problems even with those results. Though, my tests with it are very simple so I don't know if it would affect more heavy use of fiveam's features. 20:30:10 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 20:32:48 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-xmevkojxsdrtrypq] has joined #lisp 20:36:01 treehug [~treehug@adsl-99-58-211-38.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:41 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:10 paul0 [~paul0@189.115.60.147] has joined #lisp 20:38:18 -!- Pizza_Bro_Pizza [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:35 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:39:37 -!- pearle_ is now known as pearle 20:40:24 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:41:46 chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:48 Xach: ABCL loads cl-unicode now (current trunk) and by consequence also cl-interpol 20:42:05 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-218-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:51 rread [~rread@c-98-234-218-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:12 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:34 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:53:13 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #lisp 20:53:14 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:54:30 -!- treehug [~treehug@adsl-99-58-211-38.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: treehug] 20:56:50 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:42 npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has joined #lisp 20:59:45 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:17 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:05:59 nice 21:06:56 ehu: woo 21:07:53 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@c-174-48-233-198.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:10:33 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:15:37 Xach: you published a list of stats back in Feb; do you have a more recent list? 21:16:04 hmm, not at the moment 21:16:19 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 21:16:51 ok. no problem, but an update is appreciated: we use it to target our focus. 21:17:08 libraries most downloaded get the highest priority to be fixed with ABCL. 21:18:13 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:19:03 august so far is here: http://xach.com/tmp/top100.txt 21:19:13 thanks! 21:20:09 hmm. closer-mop is going up in the rankings. too bad. we've got a lot to do before that's fully supported. 21:20:47 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:13 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:50 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:25 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:58 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54A8DA37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:23:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-101-133.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:24:34 alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 21:26:19 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:26 In (setq a '(b c d)) the list '(b c d) is constant; however, in the clhs it is called differently. I can't remember how. Can someone help me? 21:27:45 literal. 21:28:13 ehu: it might be mutable or not, but to be conforming a program must treat it as immutable. 21:28:14 thanks! 21:28:47 me 21:30:17 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:58 Guest__ [~textual@ip98-167-187-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:26 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:32:42 *Guest__* greets @alama 21:32:51 *alama* waves 21:36:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:08 poindontcare [~user@122.176.246.27] has joined #lisp 21:38:02 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-134.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:22 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:29 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:43:53 ehu: only one thing to do 21:43:59 ehu: sabotage closer-mop in other implementations! 21:44:25 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:01 -!- shachaf_ is now known as shachaf 21:47:01 pearle_ [~pearle@142.162.34.184] has joined #lisp 21:47:55 Xach: :-) 21:50:03 -!- pearle [~pearle@142.162.73.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:50:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-xmevkojxsdrtrypq] has quit [Quit: Offline] 21:53:15 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-150-164.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:08 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:10 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59:15 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-212-199.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:59:15 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:59:34 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.115.60.147] has quit [Quit: paul0] 22:00:54 -!- Guest__ [~textual@ip98-167-187-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:04:07 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA32E45.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:41 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:52 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-184-38.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:21 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04AB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 22:10:02 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 22:10:27 -!- pearle_ [~pearle@142.162.34.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:11:45 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:11:46 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:12:55 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:29 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-222.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:29 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:18:47 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-wlfzaettzcerozbe] has joined #lisp 22:19:15 pnq [~nick@ACA23BB2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:47 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:22:12 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:22 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 22:26:27 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.66] has joined #lisp 22:26:27 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-wlfzaettzcerozbe] has quit [Quit: Offline] 22:29:01 -!- elliottcable is now known as able 22:29:15 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:33:38 charli [~charli@e180185206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:33:55 -!- charli [~charli@e180185206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:18 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 22:42:55 Hello Dragons! 22:43:21 Anyone ever get this one before: 22:43:24 Warning (slime): Caught error during fontification while searching for forms that are suppressed by reader-conditionals. 22:43:28 The error was: (overflow-error "317192554773903544674993329975922389959"). 22:43:38 cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:36 I sometimes get similar errors when I use #+#:foo in allegro cl 22:44:57 what's the length of your *features*? (: 22:45:23 antifuchs: i had an one of these unclosed: "(reduce #'+" 22:48:25 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 22:49:05 antifuchs: FTR `slime-search-suppressed-forms' seems to be the culprit. 22:52:21 pearle [~pearle@142.162.35.185] has joined #lisp 22:53:48 novalis [~quassel@mue-88-130-85-218.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #lisp 22:54:29 Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has joined #lisp 22:55:01 antifuchs: it would be better to use #+(or) rather than #+#:foo 22:55:55 -!- novalis [~quassel@mue-88-130-85-218.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:56:25 novalix [~quassel@mue-88-130-85-218.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #lisp 22:58:42 pjb: I don't think it is 22:59:01 pjb: #+#:foo is guaranteed to never be true, and "foo" can be a comment on why the form isn't there 22:59:04 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:20 Ah, if you need a comment... 22:59:35 -!- able is now known as elliottcable 22:59:42 whats wrong with #+nil 23:00:00 "this form is here but it's not supposed to be evaluated" is not a good comment, IMHO (: 23:00:03 mon_key: a new implementation of New Implementation of Lisp would have :nil in *features*. 23:00:07 (and that's all #+nil and #+(or) does) 23:00:30 NewLisp? 23:00:38 nope, New Implementation of Lisp 23:00:46 that one is CLtL1 or older 23:00:51 and isn't in use anywhere 23:01:08 likely _anywhere ever_ 23:01:25 but defensive programming dictates that some idiot is going to put :nil on *features* and then you're screwed (: 23:01:39 yes ok that does make sense 23:02:36 anyone happen to read Goetz thing on incorporating lambda w/ Java? 23:04:57 http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/lambda-dev/2011-August/003877.html 23:05:57 struck me as quite funny given some the lisper lineage of the early Java designers. 23:11:17 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has joined #lisp 23:13:24 No lisper lineage of early Java designers 23:13:35 Or maybe there is. Who do you think had lisper lineage? 23:13:46 Steele? 23:14:42 Gosling? 23:14:42 My understanding is that Steele wrote the spec after the design 23:15:11 I remember a bit from a while ago where he said something like "So I'd tell them 'If you make this tiny change I can document it in 1 page instead of 10'" 23:15:29 Ah. 23:15:36 I guess Gosling counts. 23:15:45 And he's undoubtedly a designer. 23:16:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gosling_Emacs has a lot of [???]s in it! 23:16:47 the "Green Team"... who was their Murdock? 23:19:51 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:00 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:22:16 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:26:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23BB2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:53 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:16 yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 23:29:03 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:52 -!- alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:37:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@114-42-11-237.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:38:33 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:54 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:45:52 -!- Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:09 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-33-251.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 23:51:46 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:57 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-33-251.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:27 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:39 It gets better, apparently they are considering using #( ) for lambda syntax. http://www.java7developer.com/blog/ 23:57:31 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:59:12 er, http://www.java7developer.com/blog/?p=326