00:00:18 rosario: but in Common Lisp, lambda has been defined as a macro so that one doesn't have to write #'(lambda. So either you are programming in Common Lisp, or you are programming in CLtl1. 00:01:23 xan__ [~xan@pD953A707.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:02 One could argue that it's more consequent when using higher-order function (think of #'> #'foo #'bar #'(lambda...)). 00:02:03 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20433.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:02:05 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:12 *functions 00:02:32 rosario: thing of (sin 42) and ((lambda (x) (* x x)) 42) 00:03:14 Does anyone use the latter? 00:03:28 It happens. 00:03:35 (in macro expansions). 00:03:59 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1F82.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953BD59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:51 Also, (mapcar (lambda (x) (* x x)) '(42)) is hyper common lisp: it works also in scheme [if you (define mapcar map)]. While (mapcar #'(lambda breaks elsewhere. 00:05:32 Don't like to quote yourself but "So either you are programming in Common Lisp, or you are programming in [Scheme]" :P 00:06:25 davazp [~user@238.Red-88-18-3.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:36 rosario: Well, I'm not programming in scheme, I'm programming in a more general, higher level programming language. 00:06:47 And using #' happens somewhat automatically in my mind when using higher-order functions. 00:06:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 00:06:55 #'(lambda is unnecessary cruft. 00:07:08 LAMBDA is already big enough to mark a function. 00:07:39 And if it's so important to mark functions, I prefer the bigger (FUNCTION sin) to the conspicuous #'sin. 00:07:57 s/conspicuous/unconspicuous/ 00:08:41 -!- paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:38 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 00:09:52 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:47 -!- xan__ [~xan@pD953A707.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:11:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:12:11 It still looks like a matter of taste to me. #'(lambda...) is equivalent to (lambda...) and both versions are fine. But when learning about Common Lisp it's probably better to realize why you can omit a call to (function... ) (or #' for syntactic sugar) if (and only if) you use lambda. 00:13:44 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:15:22 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-155-204-212.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:00 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:05 Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has joined #lisp 00:19:18 -!- sebyte [~sebyte@chimera.gnukahvesi.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 00:20:28 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:09 -!- _6502_ [5e24e326@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.227.38] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:33:16 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 00:37:09 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:37:09 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:38:27 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:39:03 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:29 user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has joined #lisp 00:41:30 yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 00:41:43 hey, how does one use clim with sbcl? I grabbed the source via apt-get source (on ubuntu), buuut... i'm not sure what i have to do in order to run the programs in the 'Examples' directory, let alone the programs in the 'Apps' directory. i've tried both clisp and sbcl, with no avail. any help plox? :( 00:42:46 for the Examples/ stuff, I get messages along "The name "CLIM-DEMO" does not designate any package." and "*** - SYSTEM::%FIND-PACKAGE: There is no package with name "CLIM-DEMO"" 00:43:21 i also ran "symlink-asd-files.sh" properly (to $HOME/.sbcl/systems), did not help either 00:43:27 i'm kind of lost at this point 00:43:40 (i also have zero experience with lisp) 00:43:59 mutenewt [~mutenewt@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:44 user17: you may be trying to chew too big a piece at once. 00:45:12 yes, i'm afraid so too, but i'd still love to know how to run clim apps nonetheless :P 00:45:19 cfy [~cfy@125.123.46.186] has joined #lisp 00:45:20 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.46.186] has quit [Changing host] 00:45:20 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 00:47:27 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has joined #lisp 00:48:09 user17, you need to gain a little understanding of ASDF 00:48:17 ...I suspect 00:48:41 do you have a crashcourse? one that essentially allows me to run beforesaid programs? 00:49:58 -!- gajon [~gajon@201.141.224.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:50:05 ub 00:50:13 sorry 00:51:08 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.153] has joined #lisp 00:51:27 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:51:52 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:52:15 user17, I would consider ASDF and CLIM to be respectively in the intermediate and advanced areas of your lisp programming journey 00:52:21 octavo [~octavo@186.22.74.95] has joined #lisp 00:52:26 so i've just ran '(asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :clim-examples)', which seems to do some weird black magic, i suppose 00:52:50 reading the README properly seemed to help a great deal, i guess (i hope) 00:52:52 yep that would probably do the trick 00:53:18 quicklisp is also nice to get to know 00:53:27 clim is probably in there 00:53:34 quicklisp? 00:53:50 http://www.quicklisp.org/# 00:53:54 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:55 oops remove the # 00:54:20 neat, thank you 00:55:10 has anyone used Lispworks for opengl animations? i´m stuck with a timer and mp: package functions to properly update opengl panes. 00:55:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:55:25 been trying with a timer, but that sucks. 00:56:06 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:56:12 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:23 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 00:56:51 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 00:59:25 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:07 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:00:41 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-155-204-212.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:12 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:02:12 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 01:02:55 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 01:03:51 ikki [~ikki@189.247.122.246] has joined #lisp 01:05:45 okay, that command from before didn't magically allow me to run the apps 01:05:53 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 01:08:59 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09:10 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09:17 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:09:35 Reelix [~John@197.173.219.162] has joined #lisp 01:09:44 -!- sellout [~Adium@pool-98-114-58-126.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:09:58 Test 01:10:05 *Reelix* shrugs 01:10:05 -!- Reelix [~John@197.173.219.162] has left #lisp 01:16:55 okay, i give up :| 01:17:29 it looks like i have to think like a lisp programmer to understand all that strange voodoo involving clim 01:17:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:48 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:17:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:18:24 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:18:31 user17: What are you trying to run, anyway? 01:18:44 Examples/calculator.lisp 01:18:56 just to see if it works in the first place 01:19:06 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.119] has joined #lisp 01:19:21 I meant, why are you trying to load CLIM with zero Lisp experience. Didn't you say you had some application you wanted to run? 01:19:38 *maxm* tried clim once, have not tried since then 01:19:41 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:19:44 sometimes you just have to shoot the horse 01:19:56 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:59 i meant the apps in the 'Apps' folder :P 01:20:52 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 01:20:58 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 01:21:02 ah... but still, why? 01:21:50 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:16 -!- pjb is now known as Guest87056 01:23:01 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 01:23:36 -!- Guest87056 is now known as pjb 01:23:36 for shits and giggles? 01:23:47 but really just to see if it works 01:24:22 What I'm getting at is, if I didn't know C, GTK would not be how I would start. 01:25:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.122.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:31:10 -!- peterbb [~peterbb@146.247.161.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:23 i see 01:32:28 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:29 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:32:29 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 01:34:41 clim is very old heritage 01:35:11 its like cobol, it has its own idioms that most ppl younger then 60 get never even learned 01:35:51 at least thats the impression I got from it when I tried it 01:37:40 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:06 is there anything other (read: newer) than clim that isn't just a C wrapper? 01:39:30 fisxoj: I don't know if Garnet is younger or older. 01:40:14 But Garnet is not just a C wrapper (however, there's a rewrite of Garnet in C++, which is probably the reason nobody use it anymore). But the CL Garnet code is still good (it uses KR, Knowledge Representation object system). 01:42:15 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:33 fisxoj: We had a big discussion about this a while back in TCLispers. 01:44:22 The conclusion I got from that was "Roll your own with OpenGL, use ClozureCL with Cocoa, or just run a web server and have people use a browser." 01:44:57 or use CAPI, if you care to buy a LispWorks licence. I hear it's good! 01:45:26 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 9] 01:46:44 or commonqt, I hear it's good! 01:48:43 -!- dgiaimo [~dgiaimo@pool-96-237-60-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:49:00 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 01:52:37 -!- ignas [~ignas@user-46-112-136-151.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:34 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:54:43 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 01:54:57 commonqt rocks big time 01:55:12 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Client Quit] 01:55:44 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:14 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:26 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h88-206-143-215.vokby.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 02:00:39 Heres a quick test http://i.imgur.com/KKwRz.png 02:01:59 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 02:02:23 main thing is you can really do rapid development with it, since you can basically play with your widget live in repl 02:02:34 that's pretty neat, maxm (: 02:03:01 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2201.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:07 well I had to add syntaxic sugar, barebones commonqt looks uglier but functionality is the same 02:04:56 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:56 have you seen the eql project maxm? 02:05:49 no, link? 02:06:04 *maxm* had not really done any lisp lately, only got back into it since I got enemployed 02:06:05 oh sorry, http://password-taxi.at/EQL 02:06:13 so I'm behind the times by about 2 yeras 02:07:38 so its like embedded lisp inside qt? 02:08:28 my problem is I already have quite an extensive SBCL lib, and bindings into my domain specific C++ library (non-qt), 02:09:27 are they not portable to ecl? 02:10:24 qt for lisp? imma drop clim immediately 02:10:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 02:11:05 not sure, probably not, I have a lisp CL-CILK package (basically parallel computation stuff), which is kind of arnesi/sbcl specific 02:11:09 would be a pain to port 02:12:16 anyway, I'm quite happy with commonqt right now..In fact developing is easier more/rapid then with c++... 02:12:44 really? 02:12:53 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D2CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:19 *maxm* is using global vars extensively and (defun (make-something (&optional (data *global-data*)))) idiom, so I can setup data and play from REPL with some mockup data, and for real I just do (with-data (whataver) ....) 02:14:09 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:21 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:25 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.132] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:14:31 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C821.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:14:38 user17 yea the package i'm using is called commonqt, there is also smokeqt (which does full CLOS thing) and the link cheir just posted, for embedded common lisp 02:15:06 i'm trying to compile commonqt right now 02:15:10 wish me luck 02:15:15 Did you get quicklisp? 02:15:41 i bet 50/50 it will not work because of some error i will not be able to figure out, but i'm open for surprises 02:15:47 yes, i did 02:15:57 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:16:11 i also tried installing clim with quicklisp, but it got some compilation errors, so i said fuck it 02:16:15 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D2CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:17 literally, actually 02:16:20 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D2CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:01 *** - SYSTEM::%FIND-PACKAGE: There is no package with name "QT-TESTS" 02:17:04 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:13 that package system gives me a headache 02:17:47 So, you just did (ql:quickload "qt") or the like? 02:18:38 Also, do you have the qt libraries and smoke installed? 02:18:55 it compiled just fine, so yes, i do have both :P 02:19:24 just do (require :qt), if it lodas, do (require :qt-repl), then do (qt-repl:start-gui-thread) 02:19:39 then do (let ((w (#_new QWidget))) 02:19:46 (#_show w)) 02:20:16 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:20 it doesn't load because it can't find the package 02:20:22 user17: This may help with understanding packages: http://weitz.de/packages.html 02:20:35 cfy [~cfy@125.123.46.186] has joined #lisp 02:20:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.46.186] has quit [Changing host] 02:20:35 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:21:04 meh if it compiled it should load... just do (require :qt) see what it says 02:21:05 "At least once per week (my personal estimate) some "newbie" on c.l.l or a Lisp-related mailing list seems to be confused about packages one way or the other" - they must be talking about me 02:21:15 it's a great feeling to be the "newbie of the week" 02:21:27 yea lisp package system is horrible TBH 02:22:06 i'm waaay to used to #include, import (python, java) or require (ruby, lua) 02:22:35 never quite figured out the module system of lisp, it's like it had been made to be as complex as only possible 02:22:36 quickload should work well enough. 02:23:11 user17: It's pretty simple, packages have symbols, that's about it 02:24:02 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:24:20 yes, but, where are they loaded from, what kind of rules are there that determinate when a package is valid (such as package path, package naming) .... from a first glance it seems rather inconsistent in lisp 02:24:25 but really just at a first glance 02:24:38 user17: packages aren't loaded 02:24:52 read weitz's page 02:25:31 user17: it's actually as simple as it comes. 02:25:41 Namespaces aren't even hierarchical. 02:25:43 i am reading that page 02:27:08 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:31 honestly I would prefer to have package system behave in a java like way, which is easy to understand and consistent.. (import ppcre) (import stock-scanner), both export 'scan, but I don't want any conflicts unless my code contains (scan).. Ie allow conflicts as long as we are not trying to intern the symbol...But of course CL kind of has it backward, that import of symbols into new package is done before we read any code 02:30:37 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:31:11 so whole (use-package) should be replaced with lazy import, that only remembers "imported" packages, but resolves conflicts only at (read) time 02:37:08 iirc, there are very vapory plans to allow that sort of customisation by subclassing packages in SBCL. 02:37:42 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:42 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:37:42 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 02:38:45 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Client Quit] 02:39:41 pnq [~nick@ACA325F2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:55 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.144] has joined #lisp 02:43:26 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:13 imho one can implement above in a brute force way by re-implementing (read) 02:45:16 gajon [~gajon@201.141.244.65] has joined #lisp 02:45:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:26 Packages aren't modules. 02:47:33 Maybe what you want is something else. 02:47:59 *maxm* wants more easy syntaxic sugar, and common sense behavour 02:48:23 Common sense is just another way to say "things that I've forgotten learning". 02:48:31 packages-as-modules is only "common sense" if you insist on thinking of them as modules. 02:48:59 ie I'm using anaphora, and I want to use other-package, that also exports (awhen)... My code does not use any (awhen).. Common sense says there should not be a conflict 02:49:35 So, what does the lexeme awhen mean here? 02:49:35 ie its a tree falls in the woods situation... Conflict exists, but is irrelevant to the user, if he never used that symbol 02:49:40 How is the system supposed to know you won't use anaphora's later? 02:49:48 it means nothing, if its not present in the code at all 02:49:53 Is it the other-package lexeme awhen, or the anaphora lexeme awhen? 02:50:13 that sholud be asked if I have a piece of code that says (awhen) 02:50:20 or do (print 'awhen) 02:50:47 If you think that, then qualify it. 02:50:55 Just write other-package:awhen 02:51:41 thats why I said conflict resolution would be better of delayed / lazied until such time as symbols are interned... Currently its at package definition time, which leads to needless conflicts for symbols that arent even used... 02:52:14 A package is like a language. 02:52:32 Deciding what language you're speaking at the last moment has its own issues. 02:54:49 well its pedantic and not user friendly.. Imagine java not allowing you to do improt java.sql.* and forcing you to add shadowing-import for each conflict. 02:55:07 would be pain, CL users are just used to it :-) 02:56:13 anyway these are just kind of if wishes were fishes.. would be nice to have as long as someone else does the lifting, /me is too lazy 02:58:22 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:00:34 daniel [~daniel@p5B326875.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:49 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:02:12 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:15 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has joined #lisp 03:02:35 ignis_ [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:49 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:02:57 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B326787.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:03:25 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:06:19 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:29 -!- gajon [~gajon@201.141.244.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:10:01 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 03:10:54 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 03:13:07 It's important to understand packages before trying to fix them. 03:13:18 I don't think that you do, yet. 03:13:33 CL packages aren't modules -- they're namespaces. 03:17:16 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:17:31 oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has joined #lisp 03:19:37 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 03:28:31 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:41 -!- Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:27 ikki [~ikki@189.247.118.15] has joined #lisp 03:34:15 bege [~bege@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:27 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:37:29 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:40:23 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.191] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:40:37 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:42:05 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.153] has joined #lisp 03:42:51 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:43:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:44:34 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:45:04 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:00 Good morning everyone! 03:54:10 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:42 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 03:58:54 Morning plage 04:03:37 -!- davazp [~user@238.Red-88-18-3.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:21 allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has joined #lisp 04:06:26 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:35 specbot: macrolet 04:06:50 macrolet? 04:07:05 clhs macrolet 04:07:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 04:07:42 specbot: ppc eieio 04:07:42 Enforce In-Order Execution of I/O: http://www.nersc.gov/vendor_docs/ibm/asm/eieio.htm#idx390 04:07:45 thx 04:07:57 blast. 04:10:25 -!- user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:45 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:12:51 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:15:41 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:45 hi, why doesn't this work? http://paste.lisp.org/display/124034 04:16:20 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:16:27 if i change ,,fn to ,@(,fn) it works, but i don't know why... 04:19:03 bege: ,@(foo) does not split (foo) in; it splices the result of (foo) in. 04:22:13 pkhuong: but shouldn't ,,fn just expand to the outer fn variable? 04:22:26 it expands to ,fn for me, what i don't understand why 04:22:52 bege: you want ,', 04:23:34 pkhuong: hm, yes, that works too, thanks :) 04:23:49 i should learn a bit more about macros, because i don't get why 04:24:04 ,,fn expands into ,#:G0..., which attempts to evaluate the gensymmed symbol 04:24:35 while ,',fn expands into ,'#:G0..., which expands further into #:G0... 04:25:56 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 04:26:26 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.153] has joined #lisp 04:26:26 hm, but with this logic why ,fn doesn't expand to anything (if i use that instead of ,,fn) ? 04:26:45 Because it is quoted? 04:26:58 Remember that , is an unquote. 04:27:51 So if you have two levels of quoting, and one level of unquoting ... 04:27:53 bege: ,fn will be expanded in the inner quasiquote. There's a certain algebra to this. ``,fn ~ `fn. 04:29:14 pkhuong: yes i thought so, but the ``,fn doesn't seem to work for me 04:29:28 have you read what I wrote? 04:30:00 pkhuong: yes, i tried :) 04:31:13 is there a place where this certain algebra is properly documented? 04:31:32 on lisp? maybe some more compressed material? 04:32:00 clhs 2.4.6 04:32:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 04:32:46 bege: Alan Bawden's "Quasiquotation in Lisp" is a classic. 04:33:29 Bike, pkhuong : thanks for the help, i will try to fill this gap in my head 04:34:54 Huh, didn't know about the ,. thing. 04:36:46 -!- mutenewt [~mutenewt@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 04:38:41 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:24 Bike: it only works in last position of a list. Better use ,@ since it works in all positions. 04:51:49 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:25 pjb: Huh? It seems to work anywhere. Not that I could think of anything to use it for. 04:53:19 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180099146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:53:21 Oh right, I confused with `(a . ,y) sorry. 04:53:29 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180099146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:55:29 bege: fwiw, I once spent a good few days with the Hyperspec trying to develop some kind of clear understanding or even good intuition about how to write complex quasi-quoted forms by hand expanding various forms following the rules given there. 04:55:48 In the end I decided that there are a few idioms that actually get used in real macros and you just learn those as idioms. 04:56:15 But maybe smarter folks for me have had more success internalizing the rules. 04:57:08 Hunden [~Hunden@e180102197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:57:22 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:00:47 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-152-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:55 ,', 05:01:06 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 05:01:15 gigamonkey, wouldn't it be more efficient to learn from the reader algorithm? 05:01:27 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yqaaxftddkljykot] has joined #lisp 05:01:33 weirdo: that's what I'm talking about. 05:02:10 weirdo: I can integrate weird functions over strange domains. Doesn't mean it's intuitive. 05:02:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.118.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:02:37 weirdo: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 05:02:52 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:03:02 people in this channel gave me advised me to read about directed acyclic graphs 05:03:09 i have problems with Steele's CLtL2 reader, it doesn't handle vectors 05:03:13 i did this and i've succesfully implemented one 05:03:52 weirdo: well don't use CltL2 if you want up to date information. 05:03:57 fatblueduck: congrats! 05:04:09 gigamonkey, i believe the reader is the same 05:04:11 thank you 05:04:21 ugh. 05:04:21 weirdo: well, you just said it's not--it doesn't handle vectors. 05:04:24 I'm just going by what you said. 05:04:27 not the reader, the quasiquote 05:04:44 Ah. 05:04:46 sorry it's la... i mean early 05:04:57 same thing actualluy 05:05:09 I guess I didn't look back to CLtL2 when I was trying to grok backquote. 05:05:27 i have my algorithm transcribed to Scheme 05:13:28 gigamonkey: yes i need a good few days too for macros, i've been lazy as i've written easy ones so far 05:14:06 hello people. 05:14:19 that "Quasiquotation in Lisp" paper looks good, if i can understand the half of it, i think i will be ok for a while again :) 05:15:05 are you referring to the series of articles with topics like elisp fexprs and stuff? 05:15:20 i used to love writing elisp macros :) 05:15:27 -!- allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:34 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.23.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:58 no i don't think so 05:18:23 it is a paper published by alan bawden 05:18:51 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA325F2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:19:01 Good morning! 05:23:24 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:27:08 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:55 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 05:28:29 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 05:29:32 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:30:43 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:31:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:34:18 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:37:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:50:44 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.144] has joined #lisp 05:50:59 sebyte [~sebyte@chimera.gnukahvesi.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:36 -!- octavo [~octavo@186.22.74.95] has quit [] 05:52:51 sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:31 El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-193-53.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:30 cfy` [~cfy@125.123.42.210] has joined #lisp 06:01:47 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:01:55 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 06:01:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.42.210] has quit [Changing host] 06:01:55 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:03:00 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-201-237.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:03:08 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: it's alive!] 06:04:49 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:05:40 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-169-177.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:07:49 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:30 -!- Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:17:28 CrEddy_ [~Aporobran@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 06:17:58 -!- CrEddy [~phyllocar@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:19:54 -!- CrEddy_ is now known as CrEddy 06:21:03 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has joined #lisp 06:21:19 varadharajan [~user@116.203.166.229] has joined #lisp 06:23:00 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:23:48 -!- El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-193-53.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:24:30 -!- ignis_ [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:22 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:26:29 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:26:30 allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has joined #lisp 06:33:11 lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:33:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:36:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:38:20 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:39:49 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:51 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:42:32 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-193-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:05 _6502_ [5e24e326@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.227.38] has joined #lisp 06:46:53 <_6502_> hello... how does SBCL avoid giving a warning about calling an undefined function in case of a recursive function in defun? 06:47:31 <_6502_> i mean... doesn't the name get bound AFTER compilation of body completes? 06:50:33 Why don't you look at the internals? 06:51:04 <_6502_> ok... i'll try 06:51:33 <_6502_> i was thinking to add a special case hack doesn't feel like the right thing to do 06:52:48 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 06:53:35 _6502_: I think that the system makes the name defined before compilation. 06:56:17 <_6502_> the problem for me is that (defun foo ...) is just a macro expanding to (setf (symbol-function foo) (lambda ...)) 06:57:35 <_6502_> and even expanding to a (progn (set-symbol-function 'foo 'dummy) (set-symbol-function 'foo (lambda ...))) i would get the warning anyway 06:57:38 Well, as you can see from SBCL's macroexpansion, its behavior is more complicated. Besides, doing that denies debug information, yes? 06:57:52 Anyone here had an attempt at clojure yet? (And in particular, using java libraries) ? 06:58:00 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:06 <_6502_> because the "dummy" set would still happen at defun execution time, (after lambda got compiled) 06:58:08 Im finding it somewhat difficuilt to use java stuff in a lisp :| Anyone else get this? 06:58:20 java class libraries I should say 06:59:01 jsoft: Do you want #clojure? 07:00:10 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:00:51 -!- H4ns``` is now known as H4ns 07:01:31 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:47 jsoft: using java libraries from clojure is relatively easy, but also very foreign to clojure itself. 07:01:49 paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:02:26 jsoft: i find it more convenient to orchestrate java libraries with javascript, at least when i just need glue and not implement a lot of logic myself. 07:02:53 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:02:57 jsoft: but as this is #lisp, i need to point you to abcl anyway. 07:06:00 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:07:45 slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d043902.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:54 <_6502_> bike: i think i found a reasonable solution, i will just make defun setting the name at macro expansion time instead of expanding to a progn 07:09:08 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:09:37 <_6502_> nah.. doesn't work 07:10:04 <_6502_> may be i should remove warnings about calling undefined functions instead :-D 07:10:26 _6502_, i'm not sure i recall correctly, but i think defun expands to something that uses eval-when to dodge this 07:10:30 what are you doing, exactly? 07:11:16 <_6502_> lnostdal: i thought eval-when was used to be able to do different things in defun at top-level or not 07:11:23 ..in one eval-when case, it'll mostly only "register" the function name; make it known to the compilation environment so warnings aren't generated .. and in the other eval-when case it'll actually compile the function or "add the guts" to it 07:12:03 ..note that progn is interpreted as the top-level in CL 07:12:17 ..or as top-level forms .... (IIRC .....) 07:12:45 just look at the macroexpansion of a defun form and you'll probably see 07:12:51 <_6502_> i'm not sure i understand this eval when thing ... if i type in the repl (defun foo (x) (foo x)) ... don't worry, i'm not going to call it :-D ... what happens? 07:13:17 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 07:13:17 try: (macroexpand-1 '(defun foo (x) (foo x))) 07:13:25 _6502_: You know of http://insidelisp.blogspot.com I hope 07:13:47 <_6502_> bike, nope... 07:13:54 Now you do, then. 07:14:24 I think "Lisp in Small Pieces" had a section about different implementations of recursive functions and environments generally, too, if you can find a copy. 07:15:48 <_6502_> don't you love when a blog just use 400 pixels of the 2000+ available? 07:16:13 scrimohsin [~asshole@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 07:17:54 <_6502_> may be it's just done in the named-lambda thing, that would be easy 07:19:24 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-152-85.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 07:19:51 does the ECL project have it's own channel somewhere? 07:20:38 <_6502_> bike: i have the book, and i've got no problem for example when implementing labels even for mutually recursive functions (i've to process all names beforehand anyway - e.g. to hide macros) 07:20:45 trigen_ [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has joined #lisp 07:20:51 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:21:49 <_6502_> actually defining the name at macro expansion time in defun MUST work... i need to understand why doesn't 07:22:35 Can I see what your code looks like? 07:23:21 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:23:36 -!- trigen_ [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has left #lisp 07:23:40 trigen_ [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has joined #lisp 07:23:50 -!- paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:15 -!- plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:26:32 <_6502_> the project is on github (jslisp ... you need to page a lot because there are dozens of those dead projects around), but i'm refactoring the compiler to generate warnings for mistyped vars or functions. You can see the lisp bootstrap part here http://raksy.dyndns.org/boot.lisp (jslisp.html instead to try the repl - chrome/ff3+/ie9/ipad). Some doc in jslisp.pdf 07:27:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:27:46 mistyped? 07:27:50 you're doing type inference already? 07:27:57 i still haven't finished mine 07:28:31 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:28:44 <_6502_> weirdo: no static typing, the hardware is javascript :-D 07:29:24 but you don't plan on making it self-hosting? 07:29:48 <_6502_> weirdo: not really, what would be the nice thing of it? 07:30:07 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:30:11 _6502_, EVAL :) 07:30:18 perhaps porting cl-ppcre :) 07:30:28 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has left #lisp 07:31:01 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl12-41-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 07:31:05 <_6502_> weirdo: i don't want CL ... when something gets too different between lisp and javascript then javascript wins 07:31:08 i hate GNU software for their bloated 'configure' files. the whole GNU toolchain is a mistake 07:31:27 *jsoft* gives up on clojure 07:31:58 why so? 07:32:02 jsoft: if you need lisp, look at abcl 07:32:03 <_6502_> jsoft: giving up on java feels good, doesn't ? or may be you're giving up on lisp? 07:32:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:32:42 -!- varadharajan [~user@116.203.166.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:32:49 weirdo: what do you suggest instead? 07:32:54 <_6502_> weirdo: because it's a lisp for js "hardware". there's something in me that thinks for example that cons cells are there just because of PDP hardware... 07:33:06 ASau, GNU toolchain? portable Makefile 07:33:22 Cons cells are there because they can be recursively decomposed 07:33:23 H4ns: No I dont wnat java stuff. 07:33:23 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:33:25 weirdo: try writing portable makefiles some time. 07:33:30 ASau, i do 07:33:30 Using cons cells for syntax, on the other hand ... 07:33:39 they even work on solaris make 07:33:53 i guess i should use omake 07:33:58 or cmake, for that matter 07:34:03 jsoft: ok 07:34:18 *_6502_* hates build tools in general, and they hate me back 07:34:19 H4ns: I basically thought 'hey look at that, a lisp with lots of libraries'. But then it kind of just got painfull. 07:34:41 weirdo: and does your software build with read-only source tree? 07:34:42 It would probably be a nice language for java guys 07:34:49 ASau, no 07:35:08 weirdo: support cross-compilation (almost) out of the box? 07:35:10 it's only for intra-company use. and they'd hate me if i had a configure script that runs for 20 minutes 07:35:14 like the one of gnu-guile 07:35:19 <_6502_> jsoft: there's always a language mismatch impedence. for example qt is a great library and python a fantastica language. yet with pyqt you can feel some problems 07:35:29 ASau, OOTB no 07:35:43 i guess one could override LD and CC 07:35:43 :) 07:35:56 weirdo: then it isn't interesting at all. 07:36:09 ASau, it's not supposed to 07:36:17 it's just a way to build the goddamn thing 07:36:21 <_6502_> jsoft: it doesn't look strange to me that there are big problems between lisp (the nicest language) and java (the worst since cobol) 07:36:25 xan_ [~xan@pD953A707.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:40 weirdo: gnu configure is just a way to build the goddamn thing. 07:36:49 for twenty minutes? 07:36:49 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 07:37:01 oh, finally, it compiles 07:37:02 Only in a more useful way and with less pain than plain makefile. 07:37:31 these fsckers at gnu guile configure script can't even figure out basic combinatorics principle 07:37:39 do cheap stuff that fails the earliest 07:37:52 like, checking whether dependents exist 07:38:06 E.g.? 07:38:21 <_6502_> hehehe... like having configure running for minutes and at the end saying "you must select either --this or --that" 07:38:28 instead of testing the whole libc, and only then barfing out that i don't have the latest boehm-gc 07:38:47 and gcc is a piece of garbage because of stupid politics 07:39:22 thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 07:39:48 Suggest a patch. 07:39:51 *ASau* shrugs. 07:40:01 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.4.94] has joined #lisp 07:40:21 _6502_: Yeap. The main reason I like lisp is it is so nice. Throwing java in it with what looks to me like a super verbose OO approach just rubs me the wrong way. 07:42:11 <_6502_> ASau: once a friend told me he wrote a nice proggie for interfacing an infrared remote ... total time a couple of days. then he tried to package it with autoconf automake. two weeks. 07:42:41 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 07:42:57 _6502_: what is it to demonstrate? 07:43:16 That your friend didn't know autoconf? 07:43:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:31 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:43:35 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:44:12 paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:44:18 <_6502_> ASau: nothing... just that if that's complex to just use the tool I assume that internals about fixing things (like giving a dependancy list beforehand instead of failing at each of missing one and restarting) is far from trivial 07:44:42 _6502_: software configuration management is complex. 07:44:45 That's all. 07:45:36 <_6502_> ASau: it's the typical "meta" jump... exactly like writing macros is harder than writing functions 07:45:48 -!- sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:45:54 No, it involves more. 07:46:25 autoconf handles many platforms. 07:46:36 Much more than typical programmer has heard of. 07:47:30 That's about the only advantage of autoconf. 07:47:48 It would be much better if it was rewritten in Common Lisp as a rule system. 07:48:14 Also it handles cross-building and building with read-only source tree. 07:48:22 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-26-41.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:48:31 All that combined it comes with some price. 07:48:50 As annoying as it may be, autoconf is a vast improvement over what came before. 07:49:21 This problem is probably more difficult than you imagine, but if you can improve upon it -- more power to you. 07:49:23 pjb: that would require Common Lisp on build system. 07:49:24 If it was developed in lisp, there would be no price, you could easily separate the different kind of rules. And declarative programs are more reusable (you can interpret them in different ways). 07:49:37 pjb: given the current state of Common Lisp, it isn't acceptable. 07:49:45 And autoconf isn't new. 07:49:57 ASau: yes, that'd be an added advantage, that instead of installing bash, people would install a CL implementation, so Common Lisp would become ubiquituous! 07:50:14 pjb: autoconf doesn't require bash. 07:50:25 pjb, yeah, like instaling modula to get cvsup... 07:50:38 ASau: then let's do what is needed in CL so that it's acceptable to use it in the infrastructure. 07:50:38 (Unless stupid programmers write bash-specific macros.) 07:50:47 _6502_: Hey, I think I figured out a way to do it (the defun thing). It's pretty ugly, though. 07:51:08 ASau: bash or any other shell. It's silly to use such dumb interpreters, better use clisp! 07:51:21 <_6502_> bike: like? 07:51:37 pjb: two years ago there was no implementation running on DragonFly. 07:52:11 With autoconf worked just fine, because it requires only semi-standard shell. 07:52:32 (And semi-standard set of other unix tools.) 07:53:04 and forking them off for each rule 07:53:21 weirdo: how are you going to invoke C compiler? 07:53:30 ASau, IPC 07:53:40 IPC to what? 07:53:45 to the compiler 07:53:45 ASau: (COMPILE 'FOO) 07:53:50 C compiler process doesn't run constantly. 07:53:56 that's GNU's problem 07:53:57 ASau: autoconf is just fine if you think unix is the world. 07:54:20 H4ns: autoconf works fine for MS Windows and even for MS DOS. 07:54:21 ASau: but then, isn't it pretty annoying that such a huge, complex tool needs to be used just to get portability among unix dialects? 07:54:34 ASau: to me, autoconf is just a proof that unix stinks. 07:54:42 ASau: "works fine for ms windows" yeah my ass 07:54:42 H4ns: what isn't? 07:54:51 _6502_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124035 (apologies, my internet connection is weak) 07:55:08 H4ns: what do you suggest as replacement? 07:55:44 cmake? 07:55:46 ASau: i don't usually care about "portability" and tend to languages and environments that don't waste my time making me think about that. 07:56:13 I suspect that we're reaching the end of that era. 07:56:32 Zhivago: what's "that era"? 07:56:33 And that the future will feature distribution in the form of virtual machines. 07:56:45 The era of autoconf. 07:56:50 Zhivago: ! 07:56:58 Probably. 07:57:15 i can only hope the day it happens, VMs can allocate memory on-demand 07:57:19 instead of taking a fixed amount 07:57:22 like vmware 07:57:40 weirdo: we're also reaching the end of the virtual memory era 07:57:55 wait, what? 07:58:00 hans: What does that mean? 07:59:13 Zhivago: i don't think that a memory system has a future where access times to a random memory location can be anything between a few nanoseconds (cache) and seconds (swapped in from a virtualized disk from another vm system) 07:59:46 And instead you see what? 08:00:01 Zhivago: i see real memory be allocated to applications instead. 08:00:18 It doesn't make significant difference. 08:00:25 *ASau* points that SBCL build system is written in much more horrible mixture of shell, one very specific dialect of make, and Common Lisp. 08:00:37 Memory has a steep i/o gradient already, and that is unlikely to change. 08:01:15 L3 cache is a zillion times faster than main memory. 08:01:32 Having main memory a zillion times faster than tertiary memory doesn't seem like a big deal. 08:01:33 SBCL also runs tests as it builds, thus mixing phases that autoconf separates. 08:02:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:02:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:17 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 08:02:32 Zhivago: i'm not sure if it is right to just claim the inability of programs to control how fast their memory is should be considered a fact of life. 08:02:58 And because of that you can't "just build" SBCL. 08:02:58 Well, there's no reason that they shouldn't be able to control it. 08:03:04 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d043902.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 08:03:24 Like any other kind of storage. 08:03:30 Zhivago: right. but presently, they can't. virtual memory is one of the reasons that is easy to identify. 08:03:39 but I don't see that removing virtual memory. 08:03:52 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:04:08 _6502_: ? 08:04:21 Zhivago: i think pageable memory is useful in some situations, but should not be mandatory as it is now. 08:04:40 Already we can make regions that a pinned in ram. 08:05:23 Zhivago: right. but if we don't do that, we end up with machines that basically freeze because they page themselves to death. and that is because paged vm is not an option, but the default. 08:05:28 <_6502_> Bike: i don't have flet (only labels) but i can try to use that. I want first to investigate why setting the name at macro expansion time of defun is not working (and in the process i found a couple of other bugs that i need to fix and cover with tests) 08:05:43 Well, I don't see that as being a big problem, either. 08:05:45 Zhivago: and most systems don't even give you an option to run without paged vm. that's something which will change. 08:06:02 Zhivago: ok. 08:06:08 Have the machine take itself down and rent space in a better neighbourhood. 08:06:20 Well, it's not the paging that's the issue. 08:06:26 You're confusing that with swapping. 08:06:30 Zhivago: aha. 08:06:48 And we already have mechanisms to prevent swap. 08:06:56 <_6502_> bike: using a lexical name during the expansion works nice because this way the defun body can refer to an old version using symbol-function (i can think to no use of that, tho) 08:07:02 Zhivago: ok. you may stop now. i'm not making sense. 08:07:09 hans: Fair enough. 08:08:04 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 08:10:16 _6502_: labels but no flet? odd. but it should work the same if you replace flet with labels. As for setting the name at macroexpansion time, the code you linked doesn't do that, so I'm still curious what you're doing. 08:11:29 <_6502_> bike: yeah it's not commited yet because it's still not working 08:12:22 <_6502_> bike: about the missing flet it's just because i'm used to labels instead than flet. also there's let, let*, do but not do* (i'm not sure i understand exactly how do* should work) 08:12:47 well, I mean, you can define labels in terms of flet, is all. 08:13:16 rosario [~rosario@p57967461.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:16 -!- rosario [~rosario@p57967461.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:13:16 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 08:13:32 Also, the way I did it doesn't actually allow for grabbing the old function with symbol-function in the lambda body, since by the time the symbol-function call is evaluated the function has already been redefined. 08:14:59 <_6502_> bike: yeah... you're right. Indeed when wrapping already existing function i use (setf (symbol-function 'foo) (let ((old (symbol-function 'foo))) (lambda ...)) 08:15:41 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:16:27 <_6502_> bike: defun cannot work (well... it worken in a previous toy but because defun was defined differently, with (defun fact (x) (* x (fact - x 1))) (defun fact (x) when (< x 2) 1) 08:16:49 <_6502_> bike: allowing "defun-when" i mean 08:17:25 <_6502_> s/fact - x 1/fact (- x 1)/ 08:18:06 I don't understand what you mean there, sorry. 08:19:27 <_6502_> bike: the defun macro can access the old version of a function, not the function at execution time. but this can be true anyway even if defun sets the symbol function value before compiling the body 08:21:12 Oh... well, I think that if I wanted to do that, I'd wrap it in an flet or something explicitly, rather than change defun's behavior. 08:22:32 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:24:18 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:24:19 <_6502_> bike: i found the problem... i cannot smash the symbol function before compiling the body because there are a few operators that are first defined "poorly" just to be able to boot (e.g. "+") and then defined better later, but during the macro expansions of the new definition the old definition is used 08:24:30 -!- dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:24:46 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 08:24:52 <_6502_> bike: i could use a different name for the poor version, or just i'll set the function value to null only if it's not defined 08:24:54 Put them in separate files. 08:25:01 -!- scrimohsin [~asshole@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:05 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:28 Beetny` [~Beetny@mail.zaptechnology.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:05 <_6502_> ah... now works :-) 08:28:42 <_6502_> it's ugly but not horrible: (unless (symbol-function name) (set-symbol-function name 42)) 08:28:50 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:29:36 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:30:42 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 08:31:08 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-221-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 08:31:51 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:32:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-121.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:33:35 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@an9iex1i.u10r.net] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 08:37:14 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-17-213.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:31 fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 08:39:41 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:40:12 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:40:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:46:18 <_6502_> damn eval... it's really true that any use of eval is a mistake 08:46:37 <_6502_> i only use it once, and it's a mistake 08:49:55 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953A707.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:54:53 dgiaimo [~dgiaimo@pool-96-237-60-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:13 benny [~benny@i577A8FD2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:59:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:01:17 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-iwyntkylrlkbgvel] has joined #lisp 09:02:58 -!- allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:03:06 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:52 ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-175.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 09:09:56 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:27 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: test] 09:10:50 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 09:11:39 -!- fgump [~fgump__@openvpn-124-140.inf.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:14:38 cfy [~cfy@125.123.42.210] has joined #lisp 09:14:46 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.42.210] has quit [Changing host] 09:14:46 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:19:03 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:41 SBCL officially in git? I missed that..when did that happen? 09:20:16 a couple of months ago? 09:20:25 Ah. 09:21:35 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:23:46 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:24:26 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-17-213.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:26 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 09:26:45 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 09:26:45 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 09:26:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:28:32 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:29:31 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 09:35:16 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-19-181.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:11 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:37:20 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:38:28 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:39:38 <_6502_> YES! ... everything works now 09:39:42 <_6502_> well 09:39:48 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 09:39:49 <_6502_> at least it's not worse than before... 09:40:08 <_6502_> git rocks 09:40:54 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:55 <_6502_> but any serious language must write its own source control system 09:41:07 <_6502_> it's like the bootstrap thing 09:41:14 <_6502_> useless, but trendy 09:42:01 stuff trendy. 09:42:21 git is like a rock maybe... helps you to get to the nut, but there are more civilized ways... :) 09:42:39 <_6502_> like .tgz files? 09:43:07 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 09:43:34 <_6502_> how large is the SBCL team of committers? 09:44:28 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:44:29 -!- paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:03 <_6502_> we're not many at work, but not being able to commit locally is a true pain for non trivial changes. When you start making tgz files as temporary backups while working it's clear that there's something wrong 09:47:28 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 09:47:44 _6502_: That. If you don't mind, I'll quote you in the future 09:48:21 heh :) 09:48:25 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:48:42 that sounded a bit pre y2k... :) 09:49:48 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-19-181.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:50:34 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:50:58 <_6502_> MasseR: no problem. I also loves quotes by no-ones :-D... like james fuksakis said "it's the quote, not the quoter" 09:51:12 Exactly :P 09:51:51 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-23-115.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:26 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:54:56 there are ~25 sbcl committers, not all of them highly active these days 09:57:06 cyrillos [~cyrill@ppp78-37-201-169.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 09:57:16 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:59:40 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:02:20 epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has joined #lisp 10:04:24 <_6502_> lunch time for me... l8r 10:04:46 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:04:47 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:06:18 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:56 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:32 tarmil [~user@109.74.51.29] has joined #lisp 10:14:33 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@ppp78-37-201-169.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:57 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:18:53 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:20:11 peterbb [~peterbb@146.247.161.37] has joined #lisp 10:20:32 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 10:22:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:24:30 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:34 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:28:55 -!- peterbb [~peterbb@146.247.161.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:31:42 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:33:45 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:35:30 _pw_ [~user@123.112.73.218] has joined #lisp 10:36:21 nikodemus: one thing I'd like to have a portable library for: getting environment variables. 10:36:46 (if you're considering areas to branch madeira into) 10:38:05 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:38:47 ehu: that's definitely one of the things madeira will do 10:39:15 ah, the "environment" there referred to the OS environment 10:39:56 i mean, the "environment" in my "what madeira will do" bit is the OS environment, not the lisp environment 10:42:29 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:46 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 10:45:30 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:38 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@mail.zaptechnology.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:50:00 <_pw_> Hi, all, is there any lisp package can i use to fetch multiple urls like curl_multi interface? 10:50:51 _pw_: For fetching URLs, I would use Drakma. 10:51:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:51:52 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:53:23 <_pw_> serichsen: Thanks, if i want to re-use a http connection, for example, do http/1.1 pipe-line request, how can i do that with drakma? 10:53:43 did you check the docs? 10:53:55 nikodemus: no. 10:54:06 xan_ [~xan@host217-39-9-152.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 10:54:09 H4ns: :) 10:54:22 http://www.weitz.de/drakma/ 10:55:18 nikodemus: wrong question... the proper first question should be: 'did you check the tests?' :) 10:55:36 *attila_lendvai* hasn't, just playing idealist... 10:56:39 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9ECD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:45 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:57:07 <_pw_> serichsen: ah, i just see :want-stream arguments. Is drakma thread-safe? 10:57:41 _pw_: what exactly do you mean by that? 10:57:51 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 10:58:49 _pw_: if you mean "can i call it from two threads in parallel, with non-overlapping arguments" then yes. if you mean "does it do something beyond that to ensure thread safety" then no. 10:59:06 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:12 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:59:42 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-23-115.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:19 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC8A96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:02:54 <_pw_> H4ns`: I mean fetching multiple urls, each call drakma:http-request in its own thread. 11:03:04 if you are screen scraping 11:03:27 then unless you also willing to investigate 3 different xml libraries, save yourself time, and google beatifulsoup 11:03:31 _pw_: sure, that'll work. you only need to be careful if you want to share resources like cookie jars or streams. 11:03:38 yes its pyhton, but the right tool for the job and all that 11:04:01 unless someone made a lispy clone 11:04:20 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:12 <_pw_> H4ns`: Thanks, I'll try it. 11:05:15 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 11:12:29 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 11:16:57 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:26:19 -!- Younder [~john@238.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:27:47 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:28:39 slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d043902.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:54 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:11 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 11:30:43 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d043902.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 11:37:17 -!- ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-175.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:44 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:18 gavino_ [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has joined #lisp 11:51:53 question: why did paul graham fake continuations with closures? and how is this better than first class contonuations in say chicken scheme? 11:51:56 if it is... 11:52:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:52:33 Well, a closure makes for a perfectly good continuation. 11:52:57 The only issue is 'does the closure expect to return'? 11:53:16 And that may be something that is non-negotiable in the language you are using. 11:53:44 A continuation is just a procedure that you call with your result in order to continue with the rest of the computation. 11:53:59 There's nothing particularly magical about them. 11:55:46 there seems to be this new way of thinking about a web interaction as the web app requesting the next response from user say 45, then getting it, producing results, sending them to user 45, and feezing, using this continuaton style, and asking user for next request 11:55:54 thus avoiding the cookie session thing 11:56:26 continutiy library in perl seems to do this and I noticed chicken scheme uses continuations for its awful/spiffy web tool 11:56:52 do you think this kinda thing is beter than the php model of get then compute? 11:57:09 and having each page have logic for each thing 11:57:35 I know im wildly broadstroking 11:58:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:58:56 Continuation-based web applications: just say no - http://carcaddar.blogspot.com/2011/06/continuation-based-web-applications.html 11:59:33 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 12:00:25 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has joined #lisp 12:00:29 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:00 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.117.39] has joined #lisp 12:02:35 gavino: That is essentially "back-button oriented design". 12:03:42 gavino: These days, you're probably better off thinking in terms of downloading an application to the browser, and then having that communicate with the server. 12:06:03 but who will allow me to do that? 12:06:14 and ajax is different for different browsers ns stuff 12:06:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@host217-39-9-152.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:06:23 so that gets into testing liek 5 browsers for your web app 12:06:24 bleh 12:06:26 gavino_: are you living in the past? 12:06:33 never 12:06:36 <_6502_> html5 is quite 0k 12:06:38 I live in 8 dimensions 12:06:41 <_6502_> 0k=ok 12:06:55 like the mud creature from deathstalker 2 12:07:03 gavino_: ok. please read up on html5. learn javascript. 12:07:08 <_6502_> just start with and things almost work on everything 12:07:10 nah 12:07:16 javacsript sounds barfish 12:07:32 gavino_: you need to get up to speed. 12:07:33 opera has different javascirpt than firefox 12:07:44 I know because blogger.com breaks in seamonkey and opera 12:07:46 badly 12:07:50 nah 12:07:51 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 12:08:03 I prefer stay away from ajax poop 12:08:27 I am not sure yet anyhow 12:08:29 <_6502_> gavino: they're probably running in some backward compatibility mode... check out http://raksy.dyndsn.org/torus.html 12:08:56 <_6502_> runs in IE9, chrome, safari on ipad and iphone and osx, androind browser, ff3+, opera 12:09:05 <_6502_> and i wrote it using chrome only 12:09:37 <_6502_> canvas 2d/javascript, all rendering done in javascript (including texture generation and the raytracer) 12:09:40 <_6502_> 4k 12:10:08 http://raksy.dyndsn.org/torus.html whats this? 12:10:24 that is a non-working url, but you'll figure out the right one. 12:10:28 this does not load on seamonkey 12:10:30 :) 12:10:30 <_6502_> a remake of an old 4k 3d demo i wrote many years ago in assembler 12:10:31 _6502_: neat. 12:10:45 gavino_: hint: it is dyndNS.org 12:10:45 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:56 <_6502_> sorry, typo 12:11:14 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-yzpdaykeprboageb] has joined #lisp 12:11:19 oow the pretty colors 12:11:41 <_6502_> ff3 has some problem with the texture mapping parts (some triangles disappear) and i even got it crashing X on my ubuntu 12:11:44 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:59 _6502_: though it does not make a good case for a web application :) 12:12:38 why would you run ff3 anyway? 12:12:59 <_6502_> h4ns: did you see fabrice bellard javascript virtual machine? boots a linux system in a virtual machine written entirely in javascript 12:13:08 H4ns: so what would you use for an e commerce app? 12:13:10 :) 12:13:37 <_6502_> udzinari: just because it's the default on my unbuntu distro 12:13:39 _6502_: sure, i've seen that. even nicer. the massive investments into javascript really begin to show. 12:14:24 gavino_: html5, javascript, a rest backend. 12:14:32 <_6502_> h4ns: i'm writing a lisp compiler that generates javascript and i'm amazed by the speed, on the stupid pointless fibonacci test it's much closer to SBCL than to CLISP :-) 12:15:03 ignas [~ignas@user-188-33-224-61.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:15:43 _6502_: some day, we'll even have source-level debuggers for languages that use javascript as virtual machine. 12:15:52 a rest backend meaning what? 12:15:52 lol 12:16:13 gavino_: meaning that you'll have to go and do some research on current web technology next. 12:16:18 and am I asume common lisp to tie it all together? 12:16:30 <_6502_> h4ns: i'm planning starting on that, so far i'm not keeping any debug info when generating the js code, but it's becoming too hard to debug 12:16:53 pnq [~nick@ACA356A4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:58 _6502_: what one would really want is source-level debugging capabilities in the built-in debuggers of the browsers, but i think it is too early to hope for that. we've come a long way with javascript's debugability already. 12:18:29 ok H4ns i guess you are going to use a computer somehow lol 12:19:14 rjack [~rjack@net-2-38-16-57.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 12:19:14 <_6502_> h4ns: why? i think it would be quite easy to write a debugger running in the dom. didn't firebug actually start at just dom? 12:19:43 -!- rjack [~rjack@net-2-38-16-57.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Client Quit] 12:20:12 _6502_: nothing is "quite easy" 12:20:42 <_6502_> quite fun 12:20:46 :) 12:20:47 <_6502_> so will look easy :-D 12:20:57 suspect hand waving , ah well 12:21:09 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:22:20 <_6502_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnZQwqkG4v8 12:22:51 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:23 http://www.cliki.net/Web holy shit 12:24:39 dmytrish [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 12:24:58 -!- dmytrish is now known as EarlGray 12:25:19 <_6502_> that's my tea :-) 12:27:12 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:29:53 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:29:56 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:10 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 12:37:11 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-196-248.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:39:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-26-41.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:39:22 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:42:08 rafael [~rafael@156.245.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:59 teste 12:44:22 xan_ [~xan@pD953A707.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:13 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 12:46:35 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has joined #lisp 12:47:30 damn u hunchentoot serve my static html!! 12:47:50 TotoTitus [TotoTitus@79.113.2.141] has joined #lisp 12:48:47 anyone tell me how in easy way I have hunchentoot running lol 12:49:43 man every time I see a headline "7 ways to" it makes me rage for some reason 12:50:48 "7 ways to make maxm rage." 12:51:14 serenity now 12:51:22 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 12:51:23 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 12:51:29 x-men first class? 12:51:54 ok how do i get hunchentoot to just show my static html page? where is the buggers doc root? if it has one? 12:53:40 there is no doc root 12:54:01 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:54:03 have you read the manual? it has an example of serving static stuff 12:54:15 also, there's a test.lisp file or something like that 12:54:20 it also serves static files 12:55:00 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:55:15 <_6502_> the new york teenager way or something like that is enough to start 12:57:05 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:57:23 <_6502_> http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/UNOFFICIAL/docs/hunchentoot/doc/index.html#start 12:59:48 yea but get serving stsic file 12:59:50 ;) 12:59:50 nikodemus: great! that's what I meant too. There's an open ticket to implement access to "environments" (the CLtL2 variant) for implementation in ABCL. We will get to that (eventually) 13:00:27 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :hunchentoot-test) Now go to "http://127.0.0.1:4242/hunchentoot/test" and play a bit. this fails for me 13:00:43 hmm 13:00:48 it will listen 13:00:54 per the first example ya 13:01:02 but not serve static html 13:01:19 (push (create-static-file-dispatcher-and-handler "/foo.html" "foo.html") 13:01:19 *dispatch-table*) 13:01:47 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 13:02:20 so i gota make 1 handler per page? 13:02:38 hm 13:02:38 gavino_: first, you need to read the manual from the beginning to the end. 13:02:42 guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has joined #lisp 13:02:49 falling asleep 13:02:52 will read tomorrow 13:02:56 good night gents 13:02:59 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.117.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:07:33 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-196-248.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:08:27 H4ns: remember germany beat england twice 13:08:38 -!- gavino_ [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has left #lisp 13:08:45 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-33-95.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:11:00 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:05 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:13:10 -!- rafael [~rafael@156.245.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:13:15 EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 13:15:26 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-33-95.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:17:17 jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has joined #lisp 13:19:08 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 13:20:05 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:21:17 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:21:40 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:00 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.83] has joined #lisp 13:23:08 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-211-145.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:23:40 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA356A4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:27:58 -!- chr`` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:29:52 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:31:08 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:34:38 pnq [~nick@ACA356A4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:05 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:23 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:44:24 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-48.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:29 BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-48.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:19 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:47:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:38 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.32] has joined #lisp 13:48:37 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:50:00 man asdf 2 is sure faster then old one, restart-inferior-lisp now is like 3-5 seconds instead of 20 13:50:07 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:50:28 *maxm* loads bunch of stuff and a kitchen sink ~/.sbclrc 13:50:34 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 13:50:47 in ~/.sbclrc rather 13:54:59 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:55:39 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:55:57 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 14:01:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:06 nikodemus: congrats on reaching all of your goals 14:03:07 and the new one 14:03:09 which I wish I knew what pieces you were talking about filling in? 14:05:41 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 14:06:55 silly me, it's right there in funding page 14:07:04 urandom__ [~user@p548A558C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:10 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:07:35 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:07:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:07:47 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:10:21 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 14:11:11 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:53 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-211-145.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:15:00 antgreen [~user@bas3-barrie18-1279407297.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:17:40 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 14:18:48 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-213-30.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:18:55 *sykopomp* wonders if MADEIRA is supposed to be a BT replacement with extra features. 14:19:22 is there a nice actor implementation ala erlang? 14:19:22 ignis_ [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:49 sbryant: there are a couple libraries with actors on top of threads 14:20:07 but since threads are heavier weight, you don't exactly have the same programming style. 14:20:32 drdo`` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:20:34 sykopomp: Between conversations here in #lisp and the message, I figured it was a better-defined/implemented BT + Compare-and-swap support so folks can implement sb-concurrency portably. ...more or less. 14:20:39 riverspeed [~riverspee@180.127.59.54] has joined #lisp 14:21:29 pkhuong: I believe you made a crack about writing the state machine yourself last time this was brought up. Any examples of that you'd care to point to? 14:22:08 -!- riverspeed [~riverspee@180.127.59.54] has quit [Client Quit] 14:22:10 nothing in lisp and nothing interesting. 14:22:16 Gotcha. Thanks. 14:22:21 -!- housel [~user@217.115.14.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:22:53 -!- drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:23:29 pareidolia [~michaelk@voncosel.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:23:57 Hi all... I hope you are ready for a noob question :) 14:24:19 Is there a way to get the list of applicable methods for any object, for example "*" in the REPL? 14:24:48 pareidolia: no. Methods belong to generic functions, not classes or objects. 14:25:37 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-193-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:13 Well, a list of specialisations on generic methods which accept one or more parameters of the type of "*" or a superclass of "*" ? 14:27:03 there's compute-applicable-methods-using-classes. 14:27:39 I use emacs->slime->swank->sbcl 14:27:45 mop compute-applicable-methods-using-classes 14:28:54 Is that a command? 14:29:04 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:31:37 peterbb [~peterbb@146.247.161.37] has joined #lisp 14:32:40 pkhuong: bots dead? 14:32:53 specbot: mop? 14:33:12 specbot: mop compute-applicable-methods-using-classes 14:33:22 hmm. 14:33:39 where are minion and lisppaste? 14:34:08 pareidolia: If you're more interested in looking at available methods during -development-, SLIME lets you inspect generic function objects, and M-. on a genfun will also give you a list of methods to look through. 14:35:17 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 14:35:20 Thanks! I already know of metapoint... but I really am looking at this from a java mindset. I miss my autocomplete and type hierarchy :) 14:36:48 It might be beneficial to look at CLOS in a very different way from what you might be used to. 14:37:58 I know. But if I get an object returned I'd like to get acquainted 14:39:14 At this moment I have no idea what to do with a "RUNE-DOM::ELEMENT" 14:40:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:44 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.142] has joined #lisp 14:41:02 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-barrie18-1279407297.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:40 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:43:32 pareidolia: personally I mostly check the developer's documentation. 14:43:59 In this case, the DOM is only there to make JavaScript hackers happy, so that's why it isn't documented explicitly in cxml docs; the W3C specs already explain it. 14:44:25 If you're not after DOM specifically, you might be more happy with cxml-STP. It's homemade, but in return has actual documentation. 14:45:30 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl12-41-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 14:45:41 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-213-30.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:43 pareidolia: what do you _need_ to do with rune-dome::element? 14:46:11 Check its tag name, add attributes... 14:46:13 pareidolia: you might want to use the slime inspector on the object 14:46:32 felideon: this is a discoverability issue as well. 14:46:50 rme [~rme@50.43.133.191] has joined #lisp 14:47:08 pareidolia: try (find-class 'rune-dom::element) to get the class object and then "C-c C-v i" on the presentation to inspect it in slime. This shows methods with direct specializers. 14:47:42 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-197-138.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:47:42 -!- guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:48 WHOOP! 14:47:52 guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has joined #lisp 14:48:03 pareidolia: you can also inspect the instance in the same way 14:48:04 "It is used as a direct specializer in the following methods: 14:48:24 That's exactly what I need... why is it so buried? 14:48:30 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 14:49:21 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:49:24 pareidolia: what i did was type dom: at the REPL to see what was exported 14:49:42 Useful, but not entirely the same... 14:49:46 :) 14:49:50 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:03 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:50:57 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:51:03 -!- jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 14:51:03 I love Emacs, but it just isn't like IntelliJ :) I hope I don't get shot now ;) 14:51:40 pareidolia: nope, it's not. OTOH, SLIME works with the actual current state of the program instead of a static approximation. 14:51:41 pareidolia: in slime the inspector is not really hidden, its accessed the same way as most of slimes features, through a key chord of random characters and modifiers 14:52:05 Indeed 14:52:10 Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift 14:52:13 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.191] has left #lisp 14:52:25 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:57 Oh, about slime 14:53:10 I forgot the keystroke for clearing the current REPL input... Anyone remember? 14:53:27 C-c M-o 14:53:43 bobbysmith007: that clears the whole buffer. 14:53:49 *pareidolia* needs another postit 14:53:58 pareidolia: but check the slime menu, it lists many useful commands and their key cords 14:54:09 pareidolia: emacs is discoverable. Use the drop-down menus and learn the shortcuts when it makes sense to. 14:54:12 oops, input not output 14:54:47 pareidolia: you can also discover what various modules can do by doing M-x slime- 14:54:50 and then browse around. 14:55:09 pareidolia: also M-x describe- can be used to find out about everything that is available in emacs 14:56:01 Thanks! 14:56:18 jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has joined #lisp 14:57:21 pareidolia: once you've discovered the function you want, C-h f will give you more information about it, including the binding, if any. 14:57:37 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 14:58:22 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has joined #lisp 14:59:26 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-yzpdaykeprboageb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:54 antgreen [~user@bas3-barrie18-1279407297.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:08:53 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-253.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:09:34 http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2011/08/-native-client-enabled-in.ars 15:09:41 guess we'll need some native client bindings. 15:10:10 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:10:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:44 lol salt 15:11:44 Fade: ECL works with it already 15:12:47 and runtime-compiling implementations will have a very hard time. 15:13:00 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 15:14:01 pkhuong: not to mentio that other than clisp, all other implementation can easily reach sizes making them impractical 15:16:23 well, gzexe and ilk drop the SLAD images down into the realm of reasonable for such things. 15:16:32 assuming that chrome is caching this stuff. 15:16:58 Fade: if you use html5 manifests, then caching works quite well 15:17:14 except you can't use gzexe with NaCL 15:17:17 <_6502_> (define-condition malformed-log-entry-error (error) ((text :initarg :text :reader text))) 15:17:30 all I know about NaCL is what I read in that article. 15:17:31 pkhuong: yeah, and that kind of defeats the purpose for me 15:17:31 <_6502_> what were they smoking? 15:17:40 -!- ignis_ [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:18:04 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-197-138.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18:06 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:40 <_6502_> is it normal to have the same condition object type to be signalled in many places? 15:18:43 Fade: it provides a special, sandboxed environment with x86 ISA and a set of APIs to interact with browser. OS access is verboten 15:18:57 makes sense 15:18:57 but NaCl depends on a really clever and hackful static binary analysis pass for safety, so anything that looks like codegen will, at best, have to go through a google-specific call. 15:19:13 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-30-13.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:19:15 that, is a problem. 15:19:23 _6502_: I don't see the problem. 15:19:53 <_6502_> pkhuong: this syntax is truly horrible 15:19:55 pkhuong: hmm... not so on the old x86 implementation, at least 15:20:14 pkhuong: simply changing interrupt vectors worked for it :) 15:20:43 <_6502_> pkhuong: just add a "virtual-constructor-proxy-builder" and it will be java 15:21:09 right. GC reeks of java as well. 15:21:15 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:21:18 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:22:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:22 <_6502_> can I define a condition locally? 15:24:04 locally declare ? 15:24:05 apparently the code safety stuff is based on Russ Cox's thesis at MIT. 15:24:55 <_6502_> homie: i mean I'm in the middle of this function and i want to signal a problem giving two alternative solutions, can i do that or i've to define something at toplevel to be able to do that? 15:25:34 exceptions ? 15:25:54 Fade: the runtime safety is enforced by having local interrupt vector, though. At least on x86. On other platforms it goes through dynamic recompilation, afaik. 15:25:55 hmm, there are exception handlers in lisp implementations.... 15:26:23 Fade: vx32 is used for x86 15:26:26 <_6502_> homie: well exceptions are too harsh... once the caller catches it the callee is already dead 15:27:07 _6502_: you must not be coding in CL. 15:27:11 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yqaaxftddkljykot] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:35 <_6502_> pkhuong: i'm trying to learn the condition system, i know nothing about it actually 15:28:17 p_l|backup: do you use ECL? 15:28:29 <_6502_> pkhuong: but as a start these statically typed conditions are throwing me back at the java world... 15:28:41 the last time I played around with it the MOP stuff wasn't quite right. 15:28:48 6502: handler-bind and handler-case work differently. 15:28:52 Fade: sometimes 15:29:00 closer-mop and contextL wouldn't compile. 15:29:12 hmm 15:29:49 _6502_: I don't see the static typing. 15:30:10 gonna check 15:31:02 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:31:07 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 15:31:21 -!- TotoTitus [TotoTitus@79.113.2.141] has quit [] 15:31:28 hmmm 15:31:36 they compiled (latest quicklisp dist) 15:31:55 with ECL/amd64/linux 11.1.1 15:32:19 cool 15:32:45 haven't run tests, though 15:32:55 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:32:57 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:33:08 well, it's an improvement from my last look where they didn't load at all. :) 15:34:34 <_6502_> running time... l8r 15:36:01 Fade: yeah 15:36:46 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:38:26 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:38:42 HG` [~HG@p579F7844.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:33 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA356A4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:31 Davidbrcz__ [~david@ANantes-151-1-188-228.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:42:51 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-30-13.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:03 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-barrie18-1279407297.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47:54 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:50:28 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has joined #lisp 15:52:41 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-114-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:29 -!- thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:53:51 markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-38-87.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:16 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:57:44 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 15:58:29 -!- jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:00:08 carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.137] has joined #lisp 16:00:09 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:02:24 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host-92-12-38-87.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:03:07 jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has joined #lisp 16:03:32 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:04 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:04:28 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:33 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:00 pareidolia: there is a slime thing for that, M-x slime-who-specializes 16:06:13 so just do (type-of *), then M-x slime-who-specializes on that type 16:10:06 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d040443.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:33 chxane [~chxane@c-68-42-0-80.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:03 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:11:55 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping 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joined #lisp 16:51:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA27DCD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:50 (setq index '(#)) => I don't understand thi #, nor why I get an error, please could anyone explain it ? 16:52:36 Is that what you tried to evaluate, or an error message? 16:53:32 davazp` [~user@162.Red-88-19-180.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:48 the error message is : # What exactly is the code that gave you an error? 16:54:53 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:55:27 mutenewt [~mutenewt@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:34 (setq index '(#)) 16:56:12 A sharpsign doesn't make any sense there. 16:56:13 I'm following a tutorial on making a tree, and this is supposed to be the first root 16:56:24 Printed too deep. 16:56:42 So the form was printed as a #. 16:56:50 See *print-depth* or something. 16:57:10 -!- routebee [~norman@120.21.39.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57:15 Either that, or the tutorial writer was on crack. 16:58:07 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has joined #lisp 16:58:47 CrEddy__ [~malacopod@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:00:58 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:01:27 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:29 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:03:18 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:04:22 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:05:43 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:05:45 I don't see. Btw # has no sense ? Isn't that some king of something but nothing ? 17:07:08 What tutorial are you following? 17:07:10 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/v_pr_lev.htm 17:07:15 Like I said ... 17:08:17 # is an omission marker. it says that the data structure contains something, but the printer doesn't output it 17:10:03 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 17:10:10 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:18 Bike, it's a French university document I have on my hard drive 17:12:40 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:16:02 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:35 I tried *print-level* nil -1 0 1 2 without a good result 17:17:50 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:06 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 17:18:19 Maybe it's not an error but a warning, I can run the script from the command line and it says 0 errors (even if it still prints the warning message) 17:18:21 naiv: using -1 as a 'nope' is not a pattern I've seen in CL yet. 17:18:24 Perhaps reading would be better than entering random values ... 17:18:38 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:18 silenius [~silenius@p5B16B230.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:25 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:25 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-148-217.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:24:25 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 17:24:38 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:27:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953A707.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:08 xan_ [~xan@pD953A707.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:53 Zhivago, I read it 3-4 times, please forgive my poor intelligence, I don't see at which point it could help preventing this message. 17:30:31 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:30:55 naiv: perhaps if you pasted the document on paste.lisp.org someone could guess the actual meaning of that line in context 17:31:05 naiv: otherwise, you'd have to ask the author of the document 17:33:10 Without more context, I'd say that either the author made a mistake, or the # is meant metaphorically as a number sign, and just means "input the index here manually". 17:33:47 http://pastebin.com/WwX6MQkk 17:33:53 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:34:31 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:34:57 I'm asking to myself if I don't just need to say read stop output user warnings. 17:35:25 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDDCEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:46 pnq [~nick@AC811137.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:41 Do you have the same message when typing in program clisp : (setq index '(#)) 17:40:29 mperillo [~manlio@151.75.71.52] has joined #lisp 17:41:55 Ought to be. #) is illegal to the reader. 17:42:27 naiv: I don't need to try that to know that it's incorrect, and others have already told you that. The question is only what they mean by it. 17:44:34 hmm, maybe it's just the character #, as all other tree branches are letters 17:45:18 I won't speculate further since I don't speak french, but perhaps someone else here does and can take a guess. 17:45:56 thank you for you time, I will now email the author 17:45:57 (Alternatively, try the normal approach, and ask the people who gave you the exercises.) 17:49:21 scrimohsin [~ubuntu@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 17:53:27 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 17:54:51 christoph_debian [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has joined #lisp 17:55:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:24 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-iwyntkylrlkbgvel] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:57:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-9.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:58:09 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-9.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:07 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:06 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:07 slash__ [~Unknown@mnch-4d043902.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:11 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:08:16 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:08:24 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:34 naiv: I have the impression that this is not _Common_ Lisp, and that # is meant as just a character. 18:09:21 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:11:48 naiv: It seems that the author used the symbol # as a marker for the root node of a trie, and symbols with names starting with # for translations. 18:15:19 -!- slash__ is now known as slash_ 18:17:23 -!- silenius [~silenius@p5B16B230.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:31 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 18:20:02 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:02 -!- lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:20:02 -!- Intensity [lpsJvkyqT2@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:24:14 slash__ [~Unknown@mnch-4d04285a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:18 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:13 ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-175.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:32 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27:11 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d043902.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:51 TotoTitus [TotoTitus@79.113.14.188] has joined #lisp 18:30:18 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:25 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:07 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:34:36 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:48 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:07 alex` [~alex@p549B376E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:43 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:37:11 -!- slash__ is now known as slash_ 18:38:11 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:38:54 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:39:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-174.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:48:10 -!- guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:20 guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has joined #lisp 18:49:46 poindontcare [~user@122.163.201.126] has joined #lisp 18:51:00 The paste expired, I can't give my excellent advice. 18:51:46 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:23 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:55:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 18:57:35 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-59-225.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:58:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:59:11 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:59:53 -!- pnq [~nick@AC811137.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:02:43 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.137] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 19:03:54 -!- trigen_ [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:08:26 -!- ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-175.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:39 I can give an excellent advice: repost the paste 19:08:42 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 19:11:49 lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:49 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-59-225.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:19:00 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:21:03 -!- alex` [~alex@p549B376E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:23 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:13 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:11 alex` [~alex@p549B376E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:30 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has joined #lisp 19:27:58 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 19:29:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:29:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:30:47 -!- mutenewt [~mutenewt@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:36:53 serichsen: duly noted thx (I was eatin) 19:37:18 lnostdal [~lnostdal@2.149.155.25.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined 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quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:57:06 <_6502_> do you guys think that having string literal interpolation is a crazy idea? I mean having "(fibo {i}) --> {(fibo i)}" that compile time expands to the proper lisp code... 19:59:04 doesn't cl-interpol do something like that? 19:59:13 it does 19:59:35 <_6502_> yes exactly 19:59:39 <_6502_> i just found it 19:59:44 <_6502_> so it's not a crazy idea 19:59:51 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:59:52 <_6502_> but having it by default? 20:00:19 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00:49 I don't see what's wrong with just an installable reader macro. 20:01:49 <_6502_> hmmm 20:01:59 <_6502_> true 20:02:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:02:18 <_6502_> makes sense to be the default for things like perl 20:07:00 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 20:10:06 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d040443.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 20:11:11 -!- plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:10 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:13 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:51 ASau [~user@95-24-221-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:22:55 sellout [~Adium@rrcs-98-103-95-226.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:06 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 20:29:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:32:39 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:32:59 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:24 "(fibo {i}) --> {(fibo i)}" vs. (let ((form '(fibo 42))) (format nil "~S --> ~S" form (eval form))) Notice the later is parameterized! 20:33:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:50 <_6502_> pjb: Notice how the latter is longer and less readable... flexibility comes at a price. Interpolation is just sugar but if you've a lot of string to format it's way better and can make a difference 20:36:17 <_6502_> also eval wouldn't work with lexicals 20:36:39 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 20:36:39 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 20:36:39 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 20:37:43 <_6502_> but format can use a string variable as template (something that cannot be done with interpolation, i suppose) 20:37:44 eh .. i've always found interpolation to be a lot more unreadable 20:42:46 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:06 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:48:01 -!- guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:35 guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has joined #lisp 20:52:43 home [~home@24-246-37-150.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:52 _6502_: you don't have much choice. How do you evaluate a sexp you just read from a string? 20:55:04 _6502_: or said otherwise, My eval can be absorbed by a macro just like yours can be absorbed by a reader macro. 20:55:30 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:40 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:40 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:55:40 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:57:09 <_6502_> pjb: i was simply thinking that interpolation doesn't work well with dynamic format strings, unless done using not full expression interpolation but just symbol interpolation by passing e.g. an hash table 20:57:56 <_6502_> pjb: positional substitution sometimes is annoying (complex cases or dynamic cases) 20:58:35 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:41 pnq [~nick@AC81138C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:10 <_6502_> C++ in this area made a step BACKWARD in respect to C 21:02:12 -!- mperillo [~manlio@151.75.71.52] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:02:36 <_6502_> C uses positional substitution, C++ explicit code for every piece 21:02:56 <_6502_> like basic 21:03:38 <_6502_> but they managed to make it also slower than C 21:05:59 <_6502_> my reader macro sucks 21:06:09 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-barrie18-1279407297.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:06:16 <_6502_> it's almost a page and still doesn't handle everything 21:09:41 -!- home [~home@24-246-37-150.cable.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 21:10:32 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:15:31 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:47 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 21:16:00 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:30 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:23:12 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:23:34 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7844.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 21:24:03 -!- chxane [~chxane@c-68-42-0-80.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:24:23 <_6502_> hmmm... i rewrote it and it's even longer. It's not my reader that sucks, apparently it's my Lisp :-) 21:24:48 <_6502_> long an thinner, tho 21:28:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:51 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-132-238.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:14 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [] 21:31:45 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-253.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:33:52 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:34:06 <_6502_> hmmm.. much better now 21:35:26 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-143.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:37:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-174.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:24 -!- 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Operation timed out] 22:13:21 -!- El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-193-53.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has left #lisp 22:15:13 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:19 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-114-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:18:29 <_6502_> sleeptime for me, nite guys 22:18:39 -!- _6502_ [5e24e326@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.227.38] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:20:03 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:20:31 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:31 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:20:31 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 22:22:45 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:11 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:25:25 yates [c06843de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.104.67.222] has joined #lisp 22:26:01 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:25 is there a predefined function that will take two strings "abcxyz" and "defxyz" and return "xyz"? 22:27:44 convert them to lists and use set-intersection 22:27:47 clhs set-intersection 22:27:47 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for set-intersection. 22:27:49 erm. 22:28:00 clhs intersection 22:28:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_isec_.htm 22:28:26 ah - very good antifuchs 22:28:29 thanks 22:29:02 note, it won't necessarily return them in order 22:30:40 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:30:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:30:54 that's not good 22:31:05 how do you convert a string to a list? 22:31:38 (coerce the-string 'list) 22:31:58 i'm not seeing anything under "string" in the hyperspec index 22:33:02 ah ok. 22:35:28 -!- elliottcable is now known as egirljr 22:37:06 -!- egirljr is now known as elliottcable 22:37:13 i'm trying to take two filenames that should have the same endings and determine their common ending 22:37:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953A707.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:37:43 some custom version control stuff 22:37:45 are you talking about the file extension? 22:37:49 no 22:37:51 or the contents of the file? 22:37:59 -!- elliottcable is now known as Vorian 22:38:03 yates: you could use the mismatch function, with :from-end? 22:38:09 i'm talking about the entire path, including filename and extension 22:38:13 or if it's about the pathname, use enough-namestring 22:38:13 'no' what? 22:38:29 no, i'm not talking about the file extension 22:40:38 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.192] has joined #lisp 22:43:39 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:55 -!- guilhon [~guilhon@187.18.137.79] has quit [Remote host closed the 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