00:00:08 if you really don't care about performance (or are willing to explicitly compile the performance sensitive parts), you could switch to using the interpreter 00:00:21 X-Scale [email@89.180.148.190] has joined #lisp 00:00:44 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest17124 00:00:54 (setf sb-ext:*evaluator-mode :interpret) 00:02:19 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 00:02:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:03:45 -!- benny [~benny@i577A708B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:07:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:29 benny [~benny@i577A1F82.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:07:57 sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:04 -!- sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 00:08:40 -!- 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quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:12 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:27:31 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:32:17 sellout [~Adium@pool-98-114-58-126.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:34:52 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 01:37:20 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:07 X-Scale` [email@89.180.148.190] has joined #lisp 01:39:31 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has joined #lisp 01:39:46 -!- X-Scale` [email@89.180.148.190] has quit [Client Quit] 01:39:50 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:34 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:44:02 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.219] has joined #lisp 01:44:41 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h88-206-143-215.vokby.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 01:47:28 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:48:01 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:40 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:51:10 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:51:40 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-48-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:05:50 fatblueduck should have tried clisp, it's much faster at loading and running scripts. 02:07:57 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-48-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:09 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:44 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C821.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:06 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A944.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:16:18 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C821.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:36 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C821.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:53 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:28 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.168.35.199] has joined #lisp 02:23:29 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 02:25:35 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:28:02 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.168.35.199] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:28:11 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:28:32 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:28:54 zenbalrog_ [~chatzilla@adsl-98-70-112-111.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:33 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:31:11 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-71-106.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:31:20 -!- zenbalrog_ is now known as zenbalrog 02:34:12 anyone have trouble getting fedora's slime to work? I just re-installed, and it's complaining because slime.elc and swank-loader.lisp are in different directories 02:40:54 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42:02 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 02:42:49 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 02:46:34 gajon [~gajon@201.141.252.129] has joined #lisp 02:49:10 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:54:00 zenbalrog_ [~chatzilla@adsl-98-70-108-38.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:07 opamp [3bb1cb89@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.177.203.137] has joined #lisp 02:55:50 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-70-112-111.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:55:55 -!- zenbalrog_ is now known as zenbalrog 02:58:59 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B326787.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:24 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BF1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:00:23 epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has joined #lisp 03:03:16 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:15:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:21 zenbalrog_ [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-7-125.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:45 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176320600.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:19:09 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-70-108-38.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:19:16 -!- zenbalrog_ is now known as zenbalrog 03:24:51 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:28:39 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 03:30:12 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:19 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:19 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:31:19 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 03:33:36 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:33:38 -!- opamp [3bb1cb89@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.177.203.137] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:34:43 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:22 zenbalrog_ [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-7-62.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:13 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-7-125.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:37:18 -!- zenbalrog_ is now known as zenbalrog 03:39:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:54 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:43:32 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:51:22 zenbalrog_ [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-9-64.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:44 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:42 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-7-62.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:48 -!- zenbalrog_ is now known as zenbalrog 03:55:00 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: *sneeze*] 03:59:39 fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:27 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:28 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 04:03:40 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:48 Good morning everyone! 04:04:44 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:09:43 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:19 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-2-171-175.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:11:20 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:27 billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:53 -!- billstclair is now known as Guest82664 04:13:22 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:15:20 -!- Guest82664 [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:15:40 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 04:18:49 -!- ska`` [~user@ppp-58-8-148-203.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:19:06 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-2-171-175.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:47 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: fisxoj] 04:48:55 -!- fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:05 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180099146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:51:54 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:54:06 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180100104.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:55:16 -!- Hun^06 [~Hunden@e180100104.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:58:08 Hunden [~Hunden@e180099146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:59:56 Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:11:33 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:12:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:15:11 -!- dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:15:20 zenbalrog_ [~chatzilla@adsl-98-70-111-158.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:26 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-9-64.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:17:31 -!- zenbalrog_ is now known as zenbalrog 05:28:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-239.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:38:40 good morning plage 05:38:50 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-79-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:43:13 sellout: you around? Got a pull request pending on CL-LLVM. 05:44:12 is there something like incf but for multiplication? 05:45:14 slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d0444cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:00 No. 05:50:20 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d0444cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:04 slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d0444cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:48 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812661.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:50 El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-193-53.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:31 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:03:07 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-161.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:03:38 fullets_ [~textual@ppp121-44-96-150.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:34 -!- ph1234k [~ph1234k@unaffiliated/ph1234k] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:04:42 paprika [~paprika@p2155-ipbf1015osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:06:56 derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:24 -!- paprika [~paprika@p2155-ipbf1015osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:49 -!- El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-193-53.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:13:00 paprika [~paprika@p2155-ipbf1015osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:14:36 push accumulator recurse then nreverse is really the most efficient pattern? 06:15:23 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@mnch-4d0444cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 06:17:42 I'm just reasoning this out. If you passed the last cons cell of the accumulator to the recursion, append could be done in low constant time, but I am guessing, the difference in cost between this and a push is the same as a single nreverse call on the accumulator at the end. 06:18:29 <_3b> push+nrevers is O(N), which is better than O(N^2) of repeated append 06:18:48 <_3b> tracking end and addiing directly to end is still O(N), but probably has better constants 06:19:08 _3b: right, you don't want to append to lst each time. 06:19:19 or acc or whatever your variable is. 06:20:41 lst looks like 1st when I see it in text. 06:21:50 Gentoo is broken, trying to kill time while revdep-rebuild runs, which probably won't fix the problem. 06:24:09 stupid being a c/c++ guy whose working with obj-c and java and presumably soon .net for work who studies lisp on weekends. I want to use terms like pointers. 06:24:15 -!- paprika [~paprika@p2155-ipbf1015osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26:01 tsanhwa [~user@124.160.106.12] has joined #lisp 06:26:45 lambda-avenger [~roman@209.237.253.59] has joined #lisp 06:27:11 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 06:37:47 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:38:34 -!- elliottcable is now known as redbie 06:40:17 -!- redbie is now known as elliottcable 06:45:30 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46:31 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:47:11 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:52:34 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 07:01:14 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 07:07:41 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:46 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 07:08:10 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:18 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 07:23:46 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.72] has joined #lisp 07:25:49 lakatos [53a6d29d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.166.210.157] has joined #lisp 07:26:01 Hey everybody! 07:26:43 Has anyone had to luck here to get some freelance lisp jobs? 07:28:15 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-184-104.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:28:39 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-201-237.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:31:07 how about full-time lisp jobs then? :P 07:36:02 I got a full-time lisp job by being on IRC for 10 years 07:36:51 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CB543.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:18 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:38:16 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 07:38:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-97-193.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:40:05 rme_ [~rme@50.43.145.2] has joined #lisp 07:40:48 -!- rme [rme@679916F4.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 07:40:49 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 07:41:55 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:41:55 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 07:43:44 Kryztof: How did that happen? Someone aproached you and askd: "Hey, you want a Lisp job?" 07:44:24 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:44:48 xan_ [~xan@pD953BD59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:17 -!- lambda-avenger [~roman@209.237.253.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:48:30 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-184-104.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:23 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-210.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:53:37 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 07:56:39 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-99-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:56:39 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-99-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:56:39 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:57:20 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-230-95.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:58:18 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:58:35 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:59:13 a bit drowsy there, insomniaSalt ? XP 08:06:53 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-230-95.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:12:04 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.145.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:41 rme [~rme@50.43.145.106] has joined #lisp 08:14:41 -!- DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:15:42 rme_ [~rme@50.43.147.241] has joined #lisp 08:16:24 -!- rme [rme@EFB35374.7AD63B8A.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 08:16:25 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 08:17:01 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.145.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:17:01 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 08:19:32 -!- lakatos [53a6d29d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.166.210.157] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:19:49 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:41 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 08:23:50 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:27:43 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-230-95.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:27:56 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:31 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:54 -!- tsanhwa [~user@124.160.106.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:37:27 tsanhwa [~user@124.160.106.12] has joined #lisp 08:39:53 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:40:33 -!- fullets_ is now known as 45PAAGRIO 08:41:21 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:34 drks [~yes@46.188.170.71] has joined #lisp 08:46:19 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 08:46:23 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:43 hello. what is loop equivalent of for (double f = 1; f >= 0.2; f */ 0.9) 08:49:38 f *= 0.9 even 08:50:17 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 08:54:01 paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:54:18 <_3b> (loop for f double-float = 1 then (* f 0.9) while (>= f 0.2)) ? 08:54:26 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 08:54:29 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 08:55:22 <_3b> or maybe (loop for f = 1d0 then (* f 0.9) while (>= f 0.2)) 08:57:00 thanks. just f = 1 worked too 08:57:49 <_3b> well, first version is technically wrong 08:57:55 <_3b> should have been 1d0 there too 09:02:49 <_3b> starting from 1 without the type specifier would be legal, but then you get single-floats instead of doubles as in the original 09:03:25 ah 09:08:31 -!- 45PAAGRIO [~textual@ppp121-44-96-150.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:12:57 -!- paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:13:41 ska`` [~user@ppp-58-8-148-203.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:14:04 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:15:25 nicdev__ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:27 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:47 francogrex [~user@109.130.204.109] has joined #lisp 09:19:57 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2c6a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:57 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176320600.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:21:20 I don't know if anyone saw this before (I doubt). It's a RDBMS engine in lisp: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.1.2364 what do you think? 09:21:58 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:22:40 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:44 francogrex: it looks a little more specialized than that. 09:25:56 prxq: like, even better isn't it? 09:27:10 from the abstract, it looks like a tool to analyze queries. That doesn't mean it it an RDBMS 09:27:43 you'll have to read the whole and especially see the source code in the appendix 09:28:20 ah ok, so he actually implements one? 09:28:22 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:31:00 it's may not be complete, but I think it has what it needs, i still need to test it, it could be useful for someone who wants to write a complete engine 09:36:16 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:39:27 billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:39:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:39:46 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 09:44:36 Ralith: Done. 09:45:46 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDEF3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:17 sellout: great, thanks :) 09:46:46 sellout: incidentally, I saw you were having issues with dispose-module triggering a signal; I've been using that heavily and haven't encountered it. 09:47:44 perhaps it's been fixed on the LLVM side of things? 09:50:12 Ralith: Have you uncommented that line, or are you using dispose-module elsewhere? 09:52:10 sellout: I've been calling it directly; if you recall, I never really liked the pseudo-clos wrapper thing. 09:52:54 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:56:51 -!- drks [~yes@46.188.170.71] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:57:00 ASau [~user@95-24-221-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:00:51 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 10:01:48 Ralith: Yeah, but the part I commented out (while it uses the pseodo-clos wrapper) is part of the WITH-OBJECT macro. I'll try it with a newer LLVM. And at least if I still run into it, I'll be more certain that I'm doing something wrong myself. 10:02:06 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:02:06 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:02:30 billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:36 sellout: right, I'm not using with-object either, just calling the CFFI binding. 10:02:44 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:02:44 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:04:58 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-230-95.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:06:44 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Client Quit] 10:07:30 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:08:31 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:52 kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:00 hey 10:11:20 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.204.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:50 rme_ [~rme@50.43.131.235] has joined #lisp 10:15:05 -!- rme [rme@1D3E5178.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 10:15:06 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 10:16:04 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:16:04 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 10:19:20 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:19:25 good afternoon 10:23:27 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:25:53 khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:32:11 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33:40 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 10:36:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@pD953BD59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:07 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has joined #lisp 10:37:55 rme_ [~rme@50.43.153.92] has joined #lisp 10:38:43 -!- rme [rme@1BD34CE0.241F742B.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 10:38:45 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 10:40:01 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.131.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:40:01 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 10:41:55 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:43:02 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-230-95.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:48:35 rme_ [~rme@50.43.152.31] has joined #lisp 10:49:39 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.153.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:49:39 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 10:49:45 -!- rme [rme@FA08688A.1AC22DFA.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 10:50:24 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-230-95.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:52:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:52 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 10:54:06 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-216-124.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:54:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:26 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C821.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:56:31 H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC8A96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:42 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has joined #lisp 10:58:41 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:59:57 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC9162.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:00:46 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 11:01:24 -!- rme [rme@C135173.1B3AA978.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 11:02:33 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.152.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:02:39 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-237-127.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 11:02:43 rme [~rme@50.43.158.138] has joined #lisp 11:09:11 -!- khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:12:40 pnq [~nick@ACA212ED.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:14:35 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 11:14:57 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:15:42 hi, does cl have function to partition long list of list of list of n items each? 11:16:04 for example chop list of 64 elements to list of 8 element lists 11:16:17 no. It has the building blocks for such a function 11:16:57 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:17:05 ok, gotta conjure something for it then 11:17:06 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 11:17:24 trying to port my clojure code to cl, slow process :) 11:18:40 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-237-127.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:19:27 paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:19:35 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:20:27 why the move? 11:21:17 I want to learn cl 11:22:58 and my atom box takes ~15 sec to start jvm so its not that clojure friendly :) 11:24:46 (defun foo (xs) (loop for xss on xs by (lambda (n) (nthcdr 8 n)) collect (ldiff xss (nthcdr 8 xss)))) 11:25:25 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-124-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:44 adjust for different values of 8. Also adjust if you care about the number of times you do list operations 11:27:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 11:28:58 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:30:10 I ported the clojure version already :) 11:35:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-239.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:36:03 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CB543.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:37:45 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:13 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C821.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:08 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:44:03 -!- zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:44:45 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:54 -!- paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:06 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:09 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.26] has joined #lisp 11:54:43 ska``` [~user@ppp-58-8-175-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:55:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:28 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-155-204-212.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:19 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 11:57:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 11:57:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:57:42 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:58:23 -!- ska`` [~user@ppp-58-8-148-203.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:58:43 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 11:59:11 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2c6a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:59:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-156-115.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:01:44 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:06:39 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has joined #lisp 12:09:07 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA212ED.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:11:19 -!- kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: time's up] 12:11:42 man is it just me or slime/sbcl combo became slower more laggy lately? 12:12:02 there is sometimes 1 seconds delay in evaluating simplest expressions 12:14:17 dbushenko [~dim@93.125.22.247] has joined #lisp 12:14:50 (let ((start (float-time))) (dotimes (i 10) (slime-eval 1))(message "%d seconds" (- (float-time) start))) 12:15:00 above evaluated from emacs takes 11 seconds 12:15:30 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:15:31 cpu usage is basically non-existant, so its all spent in some weird IPC laggy land 12:18:56 maxm: it's "existent" 12:20:19 I get "0 seconds here" 12:20:46 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:21:10 wow, 0 seconds for 10 requests? 12:21:18 must be something wrong with my setup then 12:21:47 and thanks I'm aware I'm having typos often, have to enable flyspell in erc, just lazy :-) 12:21:51 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-122-79.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:22:10 Eataix [~Eataix@209.237.253.55] has joined #lisp 12:22:18 fe[nl]ix: what SBCL and platform, and also are you using threaded SBCL? 12:23:06 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:23:10 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-216-124.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:27 1.0.50/x86_64 threaded 12:23:56 and I get 1 second over SSH to a server of mine 12:24:15 are you using any non-default settings from slime? like swank::*communication-style* other then :spawn which is default (spawns 1 thread per request) 12:26:13 deleted my .sbclrc, rm -rf ~/.sbcl, still no change.. My sblc is 1.0.48, guess I'll try updating to latest then 12:27:39 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-216-124.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:27:49 -!- sellout [~Adium@pool-98-114-58-126.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:28:36 are you trying to connect to a remote machine, or is it local ? 12:28:44 sellout [~Adium@pool-98-114-58-126.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:59 no everything is local 12:30:33 emacs23, sbcl 1.0.48 (actually its 49 just did cvs update and it only changed the verison file), opensuse 11.4 on amd64 12:30:46 everything self-compiled, but without any patches/changes 12:31:08 fe[nl]ix: hmm, are you on multi-cpu machine? /me is on quad opteron machine 12:31:42 i7 12:32:10 thats 2 cores right? I'm behind the times, my machine was bought when opterons were the rage 12:32:57 4 12:33:35 anyway, you'd better start investigating 12:33:51 use wireshark to see the timing of packets 12:34:22 see if the latency is caused by slime or swank 12:34:23 well SBCL socket stuff seems to be working fine, I'm running StumpWM under satme SBCL and its snappy 12:34:24 etc... 12:34:42 could be my emacs, will try with a different one 12:35:24 first I'll rebuild everything from latest and greatest just to be sure 12:35:39 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@209.237.253.55] has quit [] 12:35:58 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.63.26] has left #lisp 12:39:10 -!- gajon [~gajon@201.141.252.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:36 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-82-99.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:46 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-216-124.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:40:39 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:42:54 while new SBCL is compiling, re-tested with "emacs -Q" and just slime and slime-repl loaded, thus eliminating any of my cutomizations as cause 12:46:40 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d0688ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:51 Hello! 12:48:44 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-155-204-212.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:28 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:31 -!- dbushenko [~dim@93.125.22.247] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:57:45 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:36 ok found it, apparently I had some kind of leftover haxoring in my swank.lisp and did not notice cvs updating slime did not work 12:59:02 btw cvs update or checkout of slime repository from common-lisp.net gives me weird CVS error if I use -z3 12:59:23 cvs update: inflate: incorrect header check 12:59:23 cvs [update aborted]: reading from server: Input/output error 12:59:23 12:59:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:56 only visible when using -t option (verbose), otherwise cvs -z3 just silently fails (ie like if there were no updates) 13:00:29 maxm: use git://git.boinkor.net/slime.git 13:00:55 Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:01:14 is there a function to list the slots of an object? 13:02:49 (sb-pcl:class-slots (class-of ...)) 13:03:04 or maybe you want class-direct-slots 13:04:56 fe[nl]ix: thanks. class-slots does what I need. 13:05:26 for portability, you'll want to use closer-mop 13:07:13 vervic [~vervic@046-057-018-052.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 13:07:18 ah doh, everyone switching to git... btw the function that made the difference (receive-if) thats the only thing that changed and it fixes my problem as I move that change into my slime. 13:08:04 maxm: isn't it exciting ? soon CVS will be nothing but a bad dream 13:08:20 yea git rocks 13:08:42 well unless you screw up and can't find 1 month of your commits that you know are in there somewher 13:08:53 that said, slime still uses CVS 13:13:13 man combined with (notinline) of the CL functions, this makes stepper almost usable 13:14:23 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-216-124.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:19:33 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176320600.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:23:28 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:17 capivara_ [~capivara@186.212.41.227] has joined #lisp 13:24:20 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:25:13 rapid development with slime and commonqt is so cool its unreal 13:26:16 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:26:51 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27:16 especially since any QWidget can act as top level window... so as I develop my (make-some-cool-sub-window), I just have (defvar w), and (setq w (make-some-cool-subwindow)) and then (w.show), (w.hide), (w.setCooloption (Qt.whatever)) and it updates in realtime.. Then when its ready I add (main.addWidget (make-some-cool-subwindow)) to the main window creation routine 13:33:01 MasseR [~masse@dyn68-323.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 13:33:06 -!- tsanhwa [~user@124.160.106.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:33:14 tsanhwa` [~user@124.160.106.12] has joined #lisp 13:36:03 Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:36:51 rme_ [~rme@50.43.179.27] has joined #lisp 13:38:27 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.158.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:27 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 13:39:24 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:47:08 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-155-204-212.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:53 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h88-206-143-215.vokby.se] has joined #lisp 13:50:39 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:52:04 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:56 anyone know how to deal with slime complaiining about swank*.lisp not being in the same directory as slime.elc? (fedora 15) 13:53:20 xan_ [~xan@pD953BD59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:13 it does complain? 13:56:47 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDEF3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 13:58:03 -!- zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 13:59:57 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 14:01:15 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:01:20 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:03:08 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:03:36 DrDuck [~duck@146.229.118.153] has joined #lisp 14:03:44 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:04:00 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:01 -!- joooooo [setmeaway3@183.106.96.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:14 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 14:04:33 stassats: yes, it won't start. I can even find in the code for slime.el that it will only look for swank-backend.lisp in the same directory as slime.el, but for some reason they're packaged to be in different directories 14:05:19 an easy way: don't use lisp packages from distro repositories 14:05:22 use quicklisp instead 14:05:59 hard way: set slime-backend to an absolute pathname where swank-backend.lisp is 14:06:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:28 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:19 common lisp needs sane filename handling api, that what it needs 14:07:30 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:07:39 maxm: where did that come from ? 14:08:58 from having to do the following: ;; change default dir to the market.lisp's directory 14:08:59 (setq *default-pathname-defaults* 14:08:59 (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :name nil :type nil 14:09:02 :defaults (parse-namestring *market.lisp*)))) 14:09:10 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:43 it just seems so odd that a distro package has something so blatantly wrong 14:10:06 unless I'm misreading it, there's no way this setup of files and code could ever run... 14:10:21 backstory: I use bjam as a build system for a C library, C library has SBCL bindings, sbcl subdir has t/ subdirectory with tests, bjam can run tests from any directory (it does not CD into the dir), and the tests need to be in t/ dir... Took me like 10 minutes to come up with the merge-pathname stuff that correctly handles all cases 14:11:08 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:11:09 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:12:25 Wish CL had sane path API like (file-name-directory) (file-name-nondirectory) (file-name-absolute-p), (split-file-name) (merge-file-name) etc... I have to pull my hair every time I deal with the path stuff in CL 14:12:35 fisxoj: perhaps that's because nobody uses them, knowing that might be the problem 14:13:48 maxm: cl-fad smooths over the cl file stuff. 14:13:56 maxm: there's osicat and iolib 14:14:07 maxm: directory-namestring, file-namestring, (eql (car (directory path)) :absolute) 14:14:09 :) 14:15:06 ah cool, i think I have iolib installed 14:15:16 s/directory/pathname-directory/ 14:17:32 maxm: you don't use quicklisp? 14:17:40 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 14:19:56 Hellows 14:20:27 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:29 maxm: what did you want to achieve with that snippet? 14:21:38 wu [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:04 -!- wu is now known as Guest95729 14:22:54 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:57 -!- Guest95729 [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:25:29 wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:46 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:50 -!- wuj_ [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:26:16 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:51 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 14:29:39 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:32:00 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:32:02 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:35:56 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:36:02 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:41:18 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:44:12 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 14:47:13 Eataix [~eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:48:20 -!- Eataix [~eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 14:49:15 Eataix [~eataix@baghdad.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:59:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:07:51 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:08:30 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 15:10:11 -!- Eataix [~eataix@baghdad.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:11:03 francogrex [~user@109.130.204.109] has joined #lisp 15:11:10 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-205-204.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:10 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 15:15:10 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 15:15:10 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:20:49 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 15:22:42 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:23:08 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 15:23:55 billstcalir [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:00 -!- ska``` [~user@ppp-58-8-175-112.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24:19 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:24:24 -!- billstcalir is now known as billstclair 15:24:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:24:29 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-82-10.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:24:30 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:25:20 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:25:49 -!- billstclair [billstclai@clozure-21ECE57F.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:30:31 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.204.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:38 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 15:31:02 gumbo [~gumbo@95.214.60.122] has joined #lisp 15:31:19 epps [~epps@81.196.86.150] has joined #lisp 15:31:20 -!- epps [~epps@81.196.86.150] has quit [Changing host] 15:31:20 epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has joined #lisp 15:32:22 hi? is there anyone active? 15:32:52 LiamH [~nobody@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:19 i'm passive 15:33:46 that's ok :) 15:34:06 gajon [~gajon@201.141.224.193] has joined #lisp 15:34:30 I've been learning some common lisp. However, I don't know how to practise that knowledge 15:35:03 You could write it out 500 times on the wall. 15:35:04 have you tried writing programs? 15:35:08 lnostdal [~lnostdal@248.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:12 The thing is, I don't know what programs to write 15:36:38 So, why do you want to learn CL? 15:38:04 I mean programs to be able to make sure I've grasped those concepts correctly 15:38:46 Do you have a book? 15:38:47 gumbo: just write programs you need/want or get paid to write. 15:40:13 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:40:20 i want to learn CL, cauuuusee.....i want to spread over all the universes out there..... 15:40:22 lol 15:40:58 schme: Where do you live these days? 15:41:00 Zhivago: yes, practical common lisp 15:41:27 Doesn't that have exercises in it? 15:41:49 it actually doesn't 15:42:15 no, you can read the book online here: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 15:42:26 stassats`: sorry was busy, heh decided to upgrade stuff out of my SBCL, apparently I still had asdf 1, so took a while to convert 15:43:00 gumbo: You could solve programming puzzles, e.g. http://projecteuler.net, http://www.streamtech.nl/site/problem+set, http://www.quora.com/challenges 15:43:33 i'd rather write something useful to me 15:43:58 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:44:27 serichsen: thanks, I'll have a look to those webs 15:44:57 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:44:59 stassats`: above snippet is achieved like so: (defmacro with-qt (&forms)) which basically rewrites anything in the form of (a.b.c arg arg ) into (qt-method-call (qt-method-call (qt-method-call a "b") "c") arg arg) 15:45:05 stassats`: but what if I don't find anything useful to me? 15:45:27 gumbo: then wait until you need something 15:46:05 then for convenience I changed demacs (which provides clos extensible (def) macro, to have q flags, so that (def (function q) foo) or (def (method q) foo) automatically runs through (with-qt) 15:46:13 maxm: where do pathanmes come into the picture? 15:47:17 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:47:30 stassats`: thougt you were asking about my commonqt snippet, pathname stuff is unrelated, was just rambling about bad pathname API in CL 15:47:50 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:48:12 I'm not sure if the venn diagram of bad and too-general overlap in CL. 15:48:36 considering that it's pretty trivial to make it less general. 15:48:57 pathnames in CL are not general enough 15:49:14 why solve puzzles when there are so many interesting things to work on 15:50:13 Pathnames in CL are only suitable for making a virtual CL filesystem. 15:50:19 If you want more than that, use namestrings. 15:50:44 well ppl pointed me towards iolib which seems to have saner API 15:51:06 FSVO 'saner' 15:51:07 *maxm* just spent 1-2 hours upgrading my lisp libraries, apparently I was still using asdf 1 15:51:39 you don't use quicklisp 15:51:45 now I need to redo the per-optimize-setting FASL location hack with new asdf, seems to be no obvious way 15:51:50 -!- epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:10 maxm: such as...? 15:53:05 -!- capivara_ [~capivara@186.212.41.227] has quit [Quit: capivara_] 15:53:06 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.179.27] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:13 rme [~rme@50.43.133.191] has joined #lisp 15:53:34 gumbo: well I used old asdf-binary-location, with customization that it added optimize settings to directory name. So with (declaim (debug 3)) fasls were stored in ~/.sbcl-whatever-31111/**/*.fasl (the last numbers were for speed/debug/etc) 15:54:09 kind of useful because otherwise library gets stuck compiled with whatever settings you used when it was loaded, which may not be optimal 15:54:36 i thought gumbo was asking about "many interesting things to work on" 15:54:36 whichi s ok for default settings, but when working with (debug 3), its convinient to have everything with (debug 3), not just your current project 15:54:38 Fade: is there some way you think the IOlib file-system functions aren't better than the ones in the CL standard ? 15:54:54 ah 15:55:14 fe[nl]ix: does Iolib work on Windows? 15:55:15 well, just selects whatever interests you :-) 15:55:16 well, do, because I don't use ITS anywhere. :) 15:55:20 er s/do/no 15:55:39 khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:56:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:56:31 pnq [~nick@ACA324DE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:40 schme: I am asking because I am currently in Höör. 15:57:02 schme: And I will be here for another 9 days. 15:57:13 stassats`: in hlavaty's branch(but not everything is ported), which I hope to merge soon 15:57:41 But now I need to go. 15:57:45 -!- plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has left #lisp 15:58:03 wondering how to get started with quicklisp, if I already have large directory with probably 50-60 lisp libraries 15:58:48 maxm: libraries installed outside quicklisp take precedence, so you can boot up easily 15:59:09 i might try using iolib in one of my programs which already uses iolib and suffers from some pathname diseases 15:59:19 ok gonna try it 15:59:30 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-205-204.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:55 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:59:56 stassats`: good, and let me know if you find some aspect of its API not well thought out 16:00:33 does IOlib include now an interface to inotify? 16:00:43 no 16:01:23 ok, then i'll still be using my `inotify' 16:01:28 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:56 that would be a nice feature. 16:02:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:29 are there correlates for non-linux systems? 16:03:06 xan__ [~xani@62.152.144.59.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 16:03:32 there's kqueue on FreeBSD 16:04:34 Fade: if you want to use inotify on linux, there's https://github.com/stassats/inotify 16:04:42 *Fade* nods 16:04:44 I've used it 16:05:01 but that system does seem like it would live naturally in iolib. 16:06:10 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA324DE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:32 epps [~epps@81.196.86.150] has joined #lisp 16:06:32 -!- epps [~epps@81.196.86.150] has quit [Changing host] 16:06:32 epps [~epps@unaffiliated/epps] has joined #lisp 16:07:02 Fade: after hlavaty finishes the windows port, the next priority would be to rewrite the event loop and make it more generic 16:07:31 not just I/O events, but also file-system events, signals, etc... 16:07:54 ngz [~user@168.13.97.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:03 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-242.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:10:31 *Fade* nod 16:11:11 -!- tsanhwa` [~user@124.160.106.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:14 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-216-124.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:11:14 Davidbrcz__ [~david@ANantes-151-1-212-47.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:12:21 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:28 -!- ramusara_ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:16:53 -!- gumbo [~gumbo@95.214.60.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:02 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:06 man new asdf is sure complicated.. Where would be the right way to insert an output tranlation customization (that has to be run dynamically, each time 'fasl name is generated)? 16:21:02 my current reading is that I insert a function into *output-tranlations*, and it will funcall it, and I'll just append my stuff to result of calling (translate-pathname* ) the old way 16:24:11 new? 16:24:57 it sounds like maxm hasn't updated his toolchian in over a year. 16:25:03 -!- billstclair is now known as wws 16:25:06 more like 2 :-) 16:25:11 *maxm* likes stuff stable 16:25:28 s/chian/chain 16:25:34 jebus. the coffee isn't working today. 16:25:42 just checking, as 2 is 18 mo. or so 16:26:32 morning folks 16:26:45 anyhow, I used to maintain my own bag of 'stable' stuff at various release levels, which came with me from machine to machine, but no I just use quicklisp. 16:26:48 'morning, slyrus 16:27:29 to some people "stable" means hasn't changed since it was placed in CMU archives in the 90s 16:27:48 -!- Frozenlock [~Frozenloc@modemcable146.242-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:21 I know people who genuinely believe that windows is a good platform. 16:28:22 *RenJuan* calls that "dead". 16:28:44 'people' as a general notion are kind of dumb. :) 16:29:01 well quicklisp is nice and great, but i found the different FASL name depenidng on optimize setting pretty invaluable 16:29:21 that's an interesting usecase. 16:29:32 and it seems hacking asdf to work with it will also make quicklisp work the same way, since it sits on top 16:29:54 yep 16:30:01 i don't get it, ordinarily a function in lisp evaluates all forms in it and returns the last one but maxima's functions don't obey that rule ? the info "General Operators" for maxima part mentions something of a "The return value is not evaluated"....thing 16:30:09 if you generalise the mechanism, maybe you can get fare to include it. 16:30:57 how do you map system names to the optimised fasls? 16:31:29 if you ask for :iolib, say, and you want ../some/path/.cache/common-lisp/optimized/iolib-speed3 16:31:39 its hard to come up with elegant solution, since it will require understanding asdf 2 code, which I currently don't. It looks all elegant and recursive and lispy but I'm staring at it mostly dumbfounded :-) 16:33:11 my current line of inquery is (defun hack-it-with-poleaxe) which converts #P"/home/user/.cache/common-lisp/(implemantation-name)**/*" and inserts (optimize-settings) after the implementation name), then shove that into *output-translations* variable 16:33:13 *Fade* suggests the asdf-devel mailing list 16:33:33 by the time I'll receive reply, I'll be finished with it already :-) 16:33:37 hi peeps 16:33:40 so how do you grab the optimised fasl? 16:33:46 from inside your lisp? 16:34:07 if there is an optimised fasl, then it shadows all the others? 16:36:26 anyhow, have you looked at this? http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-saves-compiled-files 16:38:28 -!- xan__ [~xani@62.152.144.59.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:44:00 carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.132] has joined #lisp 16:44:18 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:31 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 16:46:35 homie, Note that you're reading the documentation for the macro definition operator... 16:48:36 oh man, sorry 16:48:37 thank you 16:48:46 bleh... 16:48:55 i was confused.. 16:49:17 the name macro function, and the name function is confusing me 16:49:20 lol 16:49:24 Nah, thanks. I hadn't properly thought through how ::= works until now. 16:49:32 i'm just accustomed to macro and function.... 16:50:00 Well, it is like a lisp macro: it quotes its arguments, does some stuff then returns a hunk of code which is evaluated. Pretty similar, no? 16:50:27 (normally I think you'd use buildq to make the bit that gets returned) 16:51:33 macro function is a little bit awkward..... 16:51:51 Ok, the grammar in that message is unparseable. Try again? 16:52:27 are you asking what is a macro-function? 16:52:44 clhs macro-function 16:52:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_macro_.htm 16:52:46 -!- khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:52:52 stassats`, He seems to be reading about Maxima, so this is possibly rather tangential to this channel 16:52:56 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@248.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:19 thanks pjb 16:54:27 now i see where it comes from 16:55:12 i thought it to be just wording independent of the clhs spec or implementation.... 16:55:51 macro-function and macro function are different for me in that way.... 16:56:36 Eataix [~eataix@baghdad.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:50 Fade: to answer your quesiton, to get optimized version you do (declaim (optime (speed 3))) from repl, then (require :system) 16:57:56 and it will reload the optimized version of the system 16:58:12 or compile one if its not there 16:59:00 -!- Eataix [~eataix@baghdad.dreamhost.com] has left #lisp 16:59:22 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-121.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:25 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 16:59:56 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-108-18-170-109.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:03:18 maxm: require is highly implementation dependant. Use compile-file if you want to compile a lisp source with different optimization level. (declaim (optimize (speed 3))) 17:04:24 maxm: also notice that often the relative values of the different optimization categories matter more than the absolute value, so it would be preferable to give (declaim (optimize (speed 3) (space 0) (safety 0) (debug 0))) 17:04:49 But I would never use safety 0. I always use: (declaim (optimize (speed 0) (space 0) (safety 3) (debug 3))) 17:04:57 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:05:04 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:33 well I only use a few for SBCL, usually I use (debug 3) (safety 2) for development, normal settings for running stuff, and (speed 3) (safety 0) for cpu intesive numeric stuff 17:08:03 maxm: yes, you like getting results fast and false. 17:08:10 maxm: remember Ariane 5. 17:10:10 oudeis [~oudeis@62.219.154.220] has joined #lisp 17:10:11 you mean the speed 3 part? I only run that on debugged code, and have tests that run same stuff with debug and optimized to verify results agree 17:10:16 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 17:10:25 maxm: speed 3 = fast, safety 0 = false. 17:10:51 I don't trust the compiler to generate idempotent code with different settings. 17:10:54 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:11:08 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:08 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:11:08 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 17:11:15 well I look at disassembly too to verify it makes sense 17:12:41 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:55 -!- rlevel is now known as rootzlevel 17:14:56 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:17:05 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 17:17:55 capivara [~capivara@186.212.41.227] has joined #lisp 17:18:32 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:47 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:19 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 17:26:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:28:33 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:46 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-96-254-154-66.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:29:46 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:30:37 ok I'm completely unable to figure out how to use (initialize-output-translations) to inchlude a custom (T *) catch-all element 17:30:43 I'll just (setf ) it 17:31:35 -!- capivara [~capivara@186.212.41.227] has quit [Quit: capivara] 17:34:49 Eataix_ [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 17:37:34 -!- Eataix_ [~Eataix@CPE-121-223-195-181.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:40 jvia [~jvia@147.188.254.245] has joined #lisp 17:44:12 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:45:07 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-155-204-212.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:48:16 there it is http://paste.lisp.org/display/124027 17:48:22 all done, works like a charm 17:48:30 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:04 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:46 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-fe1fdd00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:54:22 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl12-41-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:55:23 -!- vervic 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[~pixpop@166.205.137.120] has joined #lisp 19:53:45 urandom__ [~user@p548A2201.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:38 it's a real problem that GC can't run in constant space 19:57:05 dgiaimo [~dgiaimo@pool-96-237-60-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:58:24 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:17 -!- EyesIsMine is now known as Supernova 20:00:29 -!- Supernova is now known as EyesIsMine 20:03:47 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-179.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:03:54 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-210.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:10 -!- gumbo [~gumbo@95.214.52.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:52 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:13:41 pixpop_ [~pixpop@166.205.141.111] has joined #lisp 20:13:54 drdo 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[kvirc@pool-71-164-233-54.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:37 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-54.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:27:37 bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 20:35:28 <_6502_> quick poll... how many would think a reader that changes (x y : (+ x y)) into (lambda (x y) (+ x y)) as stupid? 20:36:13 the first one is lisp ? 20:36:50 a reader = a person who reads or the lisp reader ? 20:36:55 <_6502_> yeah if ":" can be a symbol (not in common lisp) 20:37:09 <_6502_> lisp reader 20:39:58 <_6502_> so for example (: (list (bar) (baz))) is a suspended evaluation 20:40:06 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-46-17.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:15 <_6502_> sometimes o 20:41:33 <_6502_> sometimes i've sort of a feeling that "lambda" is too heavy as a syntax 20:41:37 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-14-127.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:42:01  20:42:08 replace it with that ? 20:42:09 lol 20:42:13 it's shorter 20:42:32 <_6502_> still longer than the ":" split trick 20:42:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-14-127.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:57 well, i don't know... 20:43:17 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-14-127.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:43:28 AFAIK, you can have any character as part of a symbol name. 20:43:35 <_6502_> btw... is there sort of a define-symbol-macro? like symbol-macrolet but global... 20:44:06 try 20:44:19 <_6502_> joshe: but you cannot use ":" ... you've to escape it like \: or |:| i think 20:44:19 clhs define-symbol-macro 20:44:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_1.htm 20:44:38 <_6502_> hehehe... 20:45:02 <_6502_> no idea i didn't thought it would have been there... 20:45:10 Oh, you meant a bare : by itself can't be a symbol. With a standard readtable that is indeed true. 20:45:40 As for the lambda trick, I'd prefer something to allow arbitrary currying, like (member . list) => (lambda (x) (member x list)), but I haven't gotten around to trying it. 20:46:06 npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has joined #lisp 20:46:28 <_6502_> that doesn't work in function position, however 20:46:54 <_6502_> define-symbol-macro i mean (nor that it should, of course) 20:47:17 For your syntax, you could just use another delimiter, like [ or something. 20:47:23 you could use ! or ? instead of : without encroaching on anything 20:47:37 <_6502_> i was thinking to -> 20:48:44 or like Bike says [ (or ], {, and }.. but the latter two work nicely for hash-table delimiting) 20:49:08 <_6502_> [x -> (* x x)] looks nice indeed 20:50:24 ugh 20:52:51 -!- bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:27 <_6502_> LoL proposes a #3`(,a1 ,a2 ,a3) to expand to (lambda (a1 a2 a3) `(,a1 ,a2 ,a3)) 20:53:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-14-127.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:54:27 <_6502_> #1(* a1 a1) that expands to (lambda (a1) (* a1 a1)) ? 20:54:27 that's a good step towards making unreadable code 20:54:57 <_6502_> hmm 20:55:03 that's it, i don't know how the haskellers cope with it.... 20:55:03 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-191-187.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:55:10 lol 20:55:21 why not adopt the syntax of APL right away? 20:55:29 <_6502_> i don't know it 20:55:31 why ? 20:55:49 it's just rightwards oriented lisp 20:55:53 lol 20:56:34 ((a) (b) + ) 20:56:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:51 if you're trying to cut back on lambda-noise, you're probably doing it wrong anyway. 20:57:13 therer is #L 20:57:20 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04C3F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:57:38 (lambda (x y) (+ x y)) is #l(!1 +!2) 20:57:41 <_6502_> sykopomp: you mean that too much lambdas stink anyway? 20:57:51 err #L(+ !1 !2) 20:58:05 its part of iterate package 20:58:54 _6502_: Yeah. 20:59:08 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:59:16 _6502_: you should create named functions for operations you regularly perform in your sources 20:59:21 here's my entry into making lisp more concise: https://gist.github.com/767289 20:59:27 Better factoring of code and learning to use alexandria's curry/compose/rcurry and company provided much nicer code-shortening. 21:00:00 <_6502_> ehu: that's the python view 21:00:34 heh. 21:00:40 that's not the python view, really. 21:00:53 python will force you to do that, even for the most trivial functions. 21:01:19 lisp will allow you to do it, but will allow you to write one-off functions with less triviality too. 21:01:30 it's up to the programmer's judgement. 21:01:43 no language can enforce good programming. 21:02:02 ehu: a goog language can enforce no programming in that case 21:02:12 s/goog/good/g 21:02:33 i like contrapositives in general. 21:02:41 v0|d: I consider the creation of curried functions to be programming as well. 21:02:55 sometimes plain code is more readable then "too functional" code and faster too.. Ppl go overboard trying to be cute with fancy stuff 21:03:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:23 you'll pry curry/compose from my cold, dead hands. 21:04:22 jup 21:04:30 plain code is more readable sometimes.... 21:09:27 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:11:51 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:18 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 21:13:06 Sometimes, to understand code, you read the disassembly. Sometimes, to understand functional code, you need to read the procedural translation. However, it is always bigger, therefore if written by hand, will always have more bugs. 21:14:18 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 21:14:33 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:22:30 ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-145.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:27:44 -!- ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-145.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 21:34:23 -!- ehu changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.26.2, SBCL crowdfunding , SBCL 1.0.50, anaphora 0.9.4, SBCL officially in Git, slime-indentation changes in CVS, usocket 0.5.2 21:38:08 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:41:43 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.35.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:19 gumbo [~gumbo@95.214.83.96] has joined #lisp 21:44:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:12 -!- gumbo [~gumbo@95.214.83.96] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:06 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:54 hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 21:51:57 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 21:53:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-191-187.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:57:14 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:58:11 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:00:05 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176320600.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:03:09 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:32 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@109.179.31.85.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:51 ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-145.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:21 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:08:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:09:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:10:51 -!- ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-145.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:07 ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-145.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:32 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:11:51 -!- ericparent [~androirc@out-pq-145.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:41 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:22:17 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 22:25:05 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25:23 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 22:26:50 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:27:44 fgump [~fgump__@openvpn-124-140.inf.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:30:37 paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:30:51 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:33:22 rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD3D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:23 -!- rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD3D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:33:23 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 22:33:39 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.23.138] has joined #lisp 22:38:28 Hi guys, is this code unportable because it's undefined behavior or is it a bug? http://paste.lisp.org/display/124030#1 22:40:09 rosario: "If the maximize or minimize clause is never executed, the accumulated value is unspecified." 22:40:11 Yes, it's unconforming code. 22:40:44 how is it non-conforming? 22:40:52 Or more exactly, depending on a specific result would be non-conforming. 22:41:14 who said that it depends on a result? 22:42:00 stassats: Where did you quote that from? 22:42:07 rosario: from CLHS 22:42:11 stassats: what does "would" mean? 22:42:31 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has left #lisp 22:43:36 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 22:43:59 oh, semantics 22:44:29 stassats: Do you have a link? http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm <-- can't find it there at least 22:44:44 rosario: you can put it into google 22:46:10 <_6502_> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/06_ac.htm 22:46:15 *rosario* shouldn't rely on SLIME directing him to the right place... 22:46:17 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:46:35 Thank you, _6502_ 22:46:38 _6502_: that's it 22:48:49 -!- paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:16 <_6502_> what would be less surprising... that dotimes/dolist use assignment or a new binding for each iteration? (I know CL says it's implementation-dependent) 22:54:48 _6502_: it doesn't matter. If you need to build closures inside you will use (let ((var var)) ...) anyways. 22:54:58 Programmers of conforming code are not surprised. 22:55:38 you could just avoid looping constructs like the plague. Some people do that. 22:57:13 <_6502_> the easiest way to build a looping constructo is to create first a map-like function and then wrap that with a small macro. in this case you end up with a new binding per iteration... 22:57:47 <_6502_> that choice in CL is there because of performance, i suppose 22:58:04 yes. 22:58:11 (loop) is perfectly fine, common lisp is the big tent lisp, use whatever you like and screw the purists 22:58:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:21 If you have a compiler that optimize well high order functions, you can do that. Otherwise you can generate a tagbody with setq. 22:58:47 It would be easier to translate a tagbody and setq into C code than high order functions... 22:59:03 also try :iterate package, its more lispy loop syntax, and you can have the (collect) and such clauses anywhere inside the body 22:59:08 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:00:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:02:15 in fact iterate seems more sane then loop, (iter (for i in '(nil nil nil)) (when i (maximize i))) returns NIL.. 23:03:27 How is that saner? I'd rather get MOST-NEGATIVE-LONG-FLOAT,. 23:03:30 or something like that. 23:03:48 <_6502_> and where is that syntax closer to lisp? 23:04:01 clhs most-negative-number 23:04:01 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for most-negative-number. 23:04:01 more parentheses. 23:04:07 no such thing! bummer 23:04:16 clhs most-negative-long-float 23:04:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_most_1.htm 23:04:32 <_6502_> pjb: cannot an arbitrary precision integer be bigger than that? 23:04:36 well all the clauses are in parentesis, and also it uses code walker to extract the clauses from tested forms 23:05:02 pjb: bignums can be larger 23:05:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:05:19 <_6502_> then why not returning -42? 23:05:37 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 23:07:10 <_6502_> there are no -+inf/NaN in lisp? 23:08:03 hey.. i suspect this is a dumb question.. i'm trying to work my way through sicp by myself and i'm a little bit stuck on exercise 1.5. i have an error in my program. could you take a look? http://paste.pocoo.org/show/iM9Aoauwh5PZHt1fZJYG/ 23:08:15 pjb: hmm this works (maximize i into result) (finally (return (or result most-negative-double-float)) 23:08:53 _6502_: there are most-positive-xxx and most-negative-xxx constants, not sure about nan/inf.. most-positive-integer, most-negative-single-float etc 23:10:54 _6502_: not portably. 23:10:59 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-187.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 23:11:15 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.122] has joined #lisp 23:11:38 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:11:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:11:59 <_6502_> zelak: shouldn't be "if good-enough?" instead "if (good-enough?)" ? ... also i don't understand your test 23:12:12 -!- ngz [~user@168.13.97.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:21 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:31 _6502_: oh, i think there was an error in the order of operations -- i meant to abs before subtracting from one 23:13:53 <_6502_> zelak: ignore the thing about (good-enough?) ... i'm not used to scheme 23:14:28 i was going to ask -- does it matter whether or not a function call that takes no parameters is enclosed with parenthesis? 23:14:41 zelak: try #scheme instead 23:14:50 this channel is about Common Lisp, not scheme 23:14:50 oh, sorry. ok, will do. 23:14:58 It does, because without parens it's not a call, but you want #scheme, yeah. 23:15:17 ok, thanks for the help and sorry for the (inadvertant) derail. 23:20:50 <_6502_> in a (do ... ) the increment form is evaluated in the lexical environment of the body, while the init form in the exterior lexical environment, correct? 23:22:47 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45767b73.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:03 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:02 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 23:32:08 hola 23:32:46 have question regarding eliminating "NIL" from output 23:32:56 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:56 (values) 23:32:58 clhs values 23:32:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_values.htm 23:33:25 z1l0g: notice that lisp doesn't output anything if you don't explicitely call some I/O routine. 23:33:53 z1l0g: what you mean is returning nil (or some other value) and having the REPL print it, since that's what the REPL does. 23:33:59 I have this lambda function: 23:34:03 (mapcar #'(lambda (z) (if (subsetp (list town st) z) z)) uszips) 23:34:29 ignas [~ignas@user-46-112-136-151.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:34:41 for z that doesn't match I want to eliminate the NIL output 23:34:44 The #' is useless ince lambda is a macro that already expands to (function ...). 23:35:01 (mapcan (lambda (z) (when ... (list z))) ...) 23:35:14 or more simply: (loop when ... collect z) 23:35:32 or more simply: (loop for z in uszips #|what's that name???|# when ... collect z) 23:35:45 us-postal-codes 23:35:48 ah, okay. I'm working my way thru "Gentle Intro" book so I haven't gotten to that stuff 23:36:25 z1l0g: yes, but that doesn't involve new conccepts: you can just peruse the clhs dictionary entries. 23:36:44 z1l0g: when you learn a new language, you learn the grammar, but you don't ask permission to anybody to go to a dictionnary and learn new vocabulary. 23:36:58 On the contrary, the more vocabulary you learn on your own, the better. 23:38:16 yeah, it's going slow; last time I learned a prog language it was WATFIV back in the 80s ;/ 23:38:57 learning CL is my summer project :) 23:39:30 You'll have fun! 23:40:19 yeah, it's interesting; just having trouble keeping it all in my head 23:40:58 okay... back to it - bye! 23:41:01 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has left #lisp 23:41:26 This will come with practice. Just be sure to read clhs when you're programming. With emacs it's easy, there's a M-x common-lisp-hyperspec RET command (I bind it to C-h y) to jump directly from your code buffer to the documentation of the function you're calling. 23:41:30 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.23.243] has joined #lisp 23:42:20 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:42:45 paprika [~paprika@p2061-ipbf1107osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:47:21 pnq [~nick@ACA20433.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:47 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:48:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.122.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:52:16 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:52 pjb: Isn't #'(lambda ...) versus (lambda ...) rather personal style? Or is there any reason you told z1l0g to use the latter? 23:59:44 rosario: one may consider it a personal style, but #'(lambda is ugly (#' is ugly in general, #'(lambda is ugly squared).