00:00:46 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1DF9.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:01:23 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 00:03:13 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:19 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:58 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 00:05:07 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.187] has joined #lisp 00:06:09 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@nc-184-3-67-31.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:03 -!- zfx- [~zfx@109.144.223.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:08:23 centipedefarmer [~centipede@97-125-186-97.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:35 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-102-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 00:10:11 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:07 benny [~benny@i577A7FE6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:23:30 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:25:22 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:25:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@vpn13.hotsplots.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:26:23 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.187] has joined #lisp 00:28:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B90E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:33:05 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has joined #lisp 00:34:44 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:40:51 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:41:11 summersault [~george@189.107.236.10] has joined #lisp 00:41:38 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:42:15 so of the CommonQT dependencies what is all that is needed, smokegen 00:42:29 smokeqt and smokekde? 00:42:42 -!- cheezus1 [~Adium@69-165-129-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:04 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-129-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:11 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 00:43:48 if you want to build from sources, smokeqt and smokegen 00:45:01 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:05 hi 00:45:22 yes, from sources I don't feel like falling into dependency hell. e.g. my packagemanager wants me to install the pimservice which wants mysql. life is too shourt for that. 00:45:55 hello dto 00:45:58 hello there 00:46:52 mon_key: life is to short to care about dependencies 00:47:31 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:47:37 i have smoke from debian installed without having mysql 00:47:42 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:45 stassats: prob. but I don't like unmonitored MySQL server running in background for a personal information manager that i will _never_ use ;) 00:48:19 what distro are you using? 00:48:25 stassats: without mucking with the package manager fedora 15 doesn't want to let me do that 00:49:15 installing kdebindings pretty much gets me KDE. 00:49:18 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:01 you could use a better distro if you're into that sort of things 00:50:34 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:21 Yes, i guess i could. But my previous Arch distro got hosed when the fuckers at GNOME decided to destroy an already perfectly hopeless desktop manager with a new and improved version. 00:51:58 you should've known better before using GNOME in the first place 00:52:27 if you're feeling funky, you could just use slackware 00:52:53 It wasn't like that... GNOME got pulled in when i uninstalled a bzr plugin! 00:53:05 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:53:07 stassats: I run slackware 13 on my laptop :) 00:53:35 i run it on my old desktop, which is actually turned off 00:53:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:14 I'm beginning to think maybe slackware 12 was the pinnacle. 00:54:26 no, slackware-current was 00:55:52 the recipe here http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Languages says i should now do 00:56:06 cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr 00:56:37 I'm lisp only what does that do? 00:57:55 IOW, how will that install path relate to what CommonQT wants? 00:59:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:59:57 try and tell us 01:00:45 Yes. 01:02:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:44 It says to stick with lisp. 01:05:32 jamiee [~jamiee@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 01:05:34 hello 01:06:12 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:06:26 is there a way to silence "in function var X is not used" warning? 01:07:28 (declare (ignore x)) 01:07:45 or (declare (ignorable x)) if you might or might not use it 01:08:09 thanks 01:08:30 you can also use it, or remove its declaration 01:09:06 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:09 doesn't apply here 01:12:45 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cf94.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:37 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011c13.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:17:21 Evanescence [~chris@122.236.242.84] has joined #lisp 01:17:30 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:56 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.236.242.84] has quit [Client Quit] 01:18:22 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.187] has joined #lisp 01:19:32 cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has joined #lisp 01:19:33 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has quit [Changing host] 01:19:33 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:20:00 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.68] has joined #lisp 01:20:03 Evanescence [~chris@122.236.242.84] has joined #lisp 01:20:38 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.236.242.84] has quit [Client Quit] 01:21:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:01 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 01:26:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:00 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: day] 01:38:36 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:39:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:12 is there a way to use an accessor for a clos object if there's a function in the same package with the same name? 01:42:22 or is slot-value the only way to access it 01:42:37 use a different name 01:43:13 or maybe you want that function to be generic 01:43:28 and it makes sense for the accessor to be a method of that GF. 01:43:43 if it's semantically similar 01:44:04 (e.g. sometimes the value is computed from other properties, other times it's in a slot) 01:44:28 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:48:48 -!- peearr [~aaron@159.153.4.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:52:11 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-12-116.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:08 -!- plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-12-116.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:06:16 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:37 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:55 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has 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[Changing host] 03:01:49 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:05:19 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 03:07:15 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:11:01 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:32 Evanescence [~chris@122.236.242.84] has joined #lisp 03:12:42 -!- Jubb [~ghost@68.34.79.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:47 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:17:52 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A507F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has joined #lisp 03:20:15 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:20:37 -!- ahriman [~ahriman@109.123.146.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:55 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 03:25:06 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:25 hey i should be ready to do a little alpha release of Blocky tonight with 3 examples, including a GUI example 03:25:35 in the next hour or so, i'm just preparing it 03:25:44 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:26:14 if interested and if you are comfortable with sbcl and quicklisp and have a 3d card, visit #blocky 03:26:18 that is all :) 03:26:49 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.236.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:26:58 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jkrhxqmsdkelfeqr] has joined #lisp 03:27:09 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 03:28:01 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.236.242.84] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 03:31:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:31:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:34 ahriman [~ahriman@109.123.146.238] has joined #lisp 03:31:46 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:33:14 13WAALCEC [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 03:33:14 31NAAUN3H [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 03:33:40 is there a way to list the methods that belong to a clos generic function? 03:35:21 tempire: using the MOP. 03:35:39 You can also inspect the function in SLIME if you don't actually need programatic access. 03:35:43 mop:generic-function-methods. If you inspect a generic function in SLIME, you'll get a nice menu with the methods that you can use to navigate to the source 03:36:06 hmm 03:36:30 the generic function is being generated by clos, so I'm not sure how I'd do that. 03:36:42 the inspect in slime, I mean 03:36:58 hsrt [~yes@93-141-78-217.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:36:58 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:17 M-x slime-inspect#'function-name 03:37:46 oh. it's just a function name symbol. 03:37:47 right 03:37:49 while we're talking about CLOS, is it possible to automatically call a method for all child classes that inherit from base class, including when they override that method? 03:38:31 jamiee: what does that even mean? 03:38:43 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:44 jamiee: Perhaps "method combination" is what you want to look up. 03:38:45 All instances of all child classes? 03:38:56 jamiee: With an :after/:before/:around method, if I understand what you mean correctly. If that's not good enough, you can write your own method combination. 03:39:19 summersault [~george@189.107.137.165] has joined #lisp 03:39:23 meaning when I do (foo object), both (defmethod foo ((obj base-class)) and (defmethod ((obj foo-class)) are called 03:39:38 (defmethod foo ((obj foo-class)) even 03:39:46 jamiee: yes. 03:39:56 Assuming foo is an instance of foo-class 03:40:16 You can use a PROGN method combination or the method specialized on foo-class can use (call-next-method) 03:42:55 cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has joined #lisp 03:42:56 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has quit [Changing host] 03:42:56 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:43:41 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:46:47 ok progn method combination does this: "Execute all methods that apply in most-specific to least-specific order.". that's not what I want, I want to call just the foo method of top-most base class, without explicitly using (call-next-method). can :after/:before do that? I can't seem to get it working 03:51:12 (defclass parent ()) (defclass child (parent)) (defclass childs-child (child)). (func child) and (func child-child) should call both their own and parent's func. childs-child should not call child's func 03:51:31 is this possible? 03:51:48 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:49 without explicitly calling parent's func 03:52:20 jamiee: it depends on what you want the base class's method to do, but probably. 03:52:23 jamiee: well, if you put the method specialized on parent in a :before or :after method it'll run. 03:53:33 Of course if you have a :before or :after method specialized on child it'll run too. 03:53:46 What are you actually trying to do? 03:53:52 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:59 jamiee: alternatively, you can paste what you already tried somewhere and explain how it doesn't work (and how you'd like it to work instead). 03:56:06 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:23 ah :after and :before actually work, I had them in a wrong place 04:00:18 what I'm doing is keeping track of the objects that should be collected (objects from a C library, that need to be manually freed). if user of the library collects them manually, it should be removed from the hash table that keeps track of them 04:01:15 so on (collect obj), base collect should be called that removes the object from the *garbage* hash table 04:02:03 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:04:20 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:15 I was wondering if it would be possible to emulate C++ way of doing this? to automatically call destructor once the object goes out of scope. right now I have a macro that collects them, but that doesn't help if I want to do this (func (alloc-some-object ... )) 04:05:16 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:45 jamiee_ [~jamiee_@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 04:09:08 jamiee: that's going to be hard to do. 04:09:19 (let ((obj (alloc-object)) ... ) <- destructor should be called here. (func (alloc-object)) <- destructor should be called after func returns. first is not that hard to do, but what about second? 04:09:21 If you really mean scope, just use UNWIND-PROTECT 04:09:33 jamiee: the usual way is to use a macro to create a scope, and finalizers for safety. 04:09:38 quackv2 [~quackv2@cpe-76-88-124-138.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:03 The lisp way is (with-object (obj (alloc-object)) ...) where with-object is a macro you write. 04:10:12 but if you really do mean a dynamic scope, you can accumulate a set of finalizers and call them before exiting the scope, via unwind-protect. 04:10:12 built on top of unwind-protect. 04:10:31 -!- jamiee [~jamiee@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 04:10:44 yeah that's what I'm doing now. but I get tired of writing that in repl all the time. in code it's not an issue 04:10:44 -!- quackv2 [~quackv2@cpe-76-88-124-138.san.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 04:12:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:06 is there a way to manually call finalizers for all objects without references? 04:14:21 jamiee_: trigger a GC and hope. 04:15:13 finalizers are best used as a backup plan, not as your main way of handling resource allocation. 04:15:43 Because there's lots of ways to run out of one resource (e.g. file descriptors) on a very different schedule than you run out of memory. 04:15:51 I would use them in repl, to ocassionally call them so that I don't have to type (with-object ... ) all the time 04:16:33 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:16:45 quackv2 [~quackv2@cpe-76-88-124-138.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:51 I have *track-garbage* special now, that pushes all collectable objects to hash table, and then collects them all after you call (collect-garbage). does that sound reasonable? for use in repl. (func (alloc-obj) ) (alloc-obj) (alloc-obj) (collect-garbage) 04:17:58 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 04:18:07 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:20:15 how often are finalizers called? 04:20:37 not specified I guess, but in practice? 04:20:40 hsrt: depends how often the GC runs 04:20:49 which depends on how much garbage you create. 04:21:11 are they guaranteed to run when GC runs 04:21:17 no. 04:21:43 I'm not even sure the spec requires a GC. 04:21:45 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-129-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:21:58 is it resaonable to expect them to run when GC runs ? 04:22:03 jamiee_: no. 04:22:32 I'm really not sure I've ever seen a problem for which finalizers turned out to be a good solution. 04:23:22 Other than as a kind of fallback to give you at least a chance to clean up some resource if it's not released properly. 04:25:29 that's what i meant, as a back up plan if i accidentally (or out of laziness) don't dispose objects in repl. like I'm doing. but if they are not even called on unreferenced objects during GC then there's not much use of them 04:25:45 jamiee_: eventually, they will be. 04:25:47 ympbyc1 [~ympbyc@219-89-18-125.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:27:03 But you can't expect finalizers to run on all dead objects after every GC, because efficient GCs tend not to identify all dead objects each time they run 04:27:24 ok that makes sense 04:32:20 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:25 hello 04:33:25 this is truly a torrential downpour outside!! 04:33:29 (central massachusetts) 04:45:20 Evanescence [~chris@122.236.242.84] has joined #lisp 04:46:09 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001346a40ef1.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:37 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:48:43 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:19 dto: while you don't need a arc, let's just call it rain. 04:49:30 oh, ark 04:49:50 yes. 04:52:11 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 04:52:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jkrhxqmsdkelfeqr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:53:08 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:14 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:54:21 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:00 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:55:28 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180102032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:55:47 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:06 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.72.117.9] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 04:58:09 -!- 13WAALCEC [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:13 hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has joined #lisp 04:59:08 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180097090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:00:19 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-deweioawfxwwyynf] has joined #lisp 05:00:25 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:19 why can't i sometimes inspect local variables within a function on (debug) ? it seemingly happens for random functions 05:05:26 what can cause that? 05:06:13 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-87.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 05:07:08 jamiee_: variables may not exist. 05:07:29 (defmethod initialize-instance :after ((obj garbage) &rest args) (when (typep obj 'bitmap) (break))) <- typing obj, getting "variable OBJ has no value" 05:07:54 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-87.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:09 but (defun foo (x) (break)) <- (foo 10). typing x when break fires gives me 10 05:08:10 It also depends on the implementation. 05:08:16 And on the debug optimization level. 05:08:17 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:08:37 oh, perhaps it doesn't work for compiled functions 05:08:38 Also, methods are different from functions... 05:09:32 In clisp, the debugger works best with the interpreter, indeed. But on other implementations, the debugger works well on compiled code, as long as it's (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (safety 3) (speed 0) (space 0))) 05:09:55 yes it does not work when function is compiled on clisp 05:10:01 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:54 doesn't work in sbcl either. can I make it work somehow? I don't know how to reduce optimization level 05:11:10 (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (safety 3) (speed 0) (space 0))) and recompile everything. 05:11:34 jamiee_: also, patch the code that declares other optimization levels... 05:12:47 jamiee_: break takes arguments. 05:16:05 I still can't read the variable. doesn't work with plain functions either, I have this. (defun func (x) (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (safety 3) (speed 0) (space 0))) (break)) 05:16:35 jamiee_: declaim is to be used as a toplevel form. 05:16:45 jamiee_: inside functions, you can write declarations. 05:16:45 oh 05:17:15 jamiee_: but as I said, patch the code that declares locally. Ie, kill those local declarations, and put the declaim form instead in your rc file. 05:18:09 I have no idea how to do that 05:18:12 jamiee_: it is not the writer of the code who may decide what compilation option the user of the code will need! 05:18:53 jamiee_: well, killing an expression can be done easily with emacs, by moving the cursor just before the expression, and typing C-M-k or M-x kill-sexp RET 05:19:28 I see 05:19:38 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:20:01 jamiee_: if you want to look at the value of obj when you BREAK, the most foolproof way is probably to (break "obj: ~A" obj). 05:20:41 That said, if you don't compile the code, the debugger of clisp lets you evaluate any form, including variables. 05:20:52 i want to inspect several variables, check their slots etc. would be nicer if I could do it all in repl 05:21:17 You can, as long as you don't compile in clisp. 05:22:00 when using asdf it's compiled automatically 05:22:16 all the functions in the loaded asdf system are compiled 05:22:26 jamiee_: breaking this might even make the variable live across enough code for you to get access to it in the debugger. 05:22:31 *breaking this way 05:22:33 jamiee_: http://www.cliki.net/TutorialClispDebugger 05:22:51 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:22:53 jamiee_: you can load the source with (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-source-op :system) 05:23:02 (I actually prefer using the slime inspector to inspect objects) 05:23:38 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:12 thanks, finally it worked. :) 05:24:42 just curious, how does one make sbcl to do the same? I plan on switching in the future 05:25:07 jamiee_: I said it. 05:26:27 can't find it 05:27:23 cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has joined #lisp 05:27:23 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.49.244] has quit [Changing host] 05:27:23 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:29:00 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:29:03 Just reread all I've said. 05:29:27 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:27 -!- hsrt [~yes@93-141-78-217.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [] 05:38:39 blackdawn [~Euler@186-194-35-2.i-next.psi.br] has joined #lisp 05:43:40 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 05:43:51 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:46:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hcbpjsfsxqwhtsky] has joined #lisp 05:48:15 hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:40 -!- jamiee_ [~jamiee_@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 05:52:25 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-78-217.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:54:19 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:05 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-121-34.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 05:59:23 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:06 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.236.242.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:06 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:04:28 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:05:33 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:01 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:09:07 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cf94.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:11:43 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 06:13:00 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001346a40ef1.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ArchMonkey] 06:16:05 ignas [~ignas@ofq162.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:18:29 trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:18:31 will the next version of sbcl correct the kernel 3.0 bug? I ask because a dev at arch linux would like to push a patch to the repos 06:18:43 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:53 however keeping packages as vanilla as possible is encouraged 06:20:39 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:53 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 06:23:53 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 06:23:53 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:25:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:27:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:28:02 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 06:31:42 anyone know how to specify ascending order with clsql? 06:31:48 *tempire* is failing 06:31:49 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 06:37:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123928 06:37:28 maybe I need a macro 06:39:36 ah, never mind. the :asc keyword expects t or nil 06:40:02 downvote on the clsql docs 06:40:52 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-121-34.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:43:16 reverse never mind. that wasn't it either. 06:43:24 *tempire* cries 06:45:34 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-76-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:47:14 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 06:50:10 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:50:47 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 06:52:12 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:52:14 -!- trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:39 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-76-108.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:54:54 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 06:55:27 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has left #lisp 06:55:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:58:05 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-81-133.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:01:09 gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:56 -!- gcv [~gcv@c-76-126-148-240.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:05:46 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:07:30 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-46-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:07:30 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-46-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:07:30 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:07:58 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA309E5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:54 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:17 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:22 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:27 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:18:27 zardoz8 [~zardoz8@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 07:19:45 hi. is there a function that can detect if there are duplicate elements in a list? 07:20:50 zardoz8: all the functions already exist, you only need to state its name. Some names are of the form (lambda ...). 07:20:59 zardoz8: no. you'll need to write one yourself, but maybe cl:sort or cl:remove-duplicates can help. 07:21:14 zardoz8: the function you want is (lambda (seq) (= (length seq) (length (remove-duplicates seq)))) 07:21:56 zardoz8: pjb wants to say "one possible way would be ..." 07:22:30 No. This is a name of that function. But there is only a single such function. 07:22:40 I actually saw remove-duplicates, thought there could be detect-duplicates or something as well 07:22:53 You could prove that any other name would designate the same function, even if CL is not able to establish such a proof. 07:23:05 pjb: right. 07:23:09 zardoz8: why do you want to detect duplicates? 07:24:45 if there are duplicates hash function failed or user gave same element twice by mistake 07:25:48 I don't know what you mean by the first disjonction, but if the user must give unique elements, why aren't then stored in a hash table in the first place, or why aren't they added to the list with pushnew? 07:26:26 Or why the new element is not detected with gethash or member? 07:26:59 Why not just test for collisions as you enter them? 07:27:04 user is providing them in a config file as a list, for convenience 07:27:12 Zhivago: this is what I just said! 07:27:52 zardoz8: then just remove-duplicates, there's no need to make the user's life more complicated that it is already, with his problems with taxes, wife, children, etc. Don't bother him for a mere duplicate! 07:32:29 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:32:37 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:32:56 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:35:50 -!- incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:39:51 nonduality [d41f5a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.31.90.45] has joined #lisp 07:41:41 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:45:16 incandenza [~incandenz@ip68-2-171-175.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:44 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:48:19 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:11 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:36 -!- blackdawn [~Euler@186-194-35-2.i-next.psi.br] has left #lisp 07:52:43 -!- 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[~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:17:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:17:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:28:27 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:41 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:19 pjb, zardoz8: as a user, i think i'd like to have a warning message if some of my config settings are removed 08:36:39 -!- ignas [~ignas@ofq162.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:37:04 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:38:58 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:43:48 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48:41 -!- 31NAAUN3H [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48:44 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:21 -!- hussaibi_ [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:49:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-6-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:38 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 08:59:02 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:12 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:59:29 xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 09:04:15 hi ! 09:04:29 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-79-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 09:08:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:09:50 xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 09:11:42 hi! 09:12:16 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 09:15:09 -!- gonzojive [~gonzojive@142-141.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit 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[~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 09:38:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:39:28 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:39:33 good morning 09:40:55 ch077179 [~ch077179@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:41:19 good morning 09:41:34 (sorry for the repetition) 09:42:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:44:28 nicdev` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:29 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 09:44:59 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:08 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:46:03 Vivitron` [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:10 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483BCFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:06 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9EAEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the 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[~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:51 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:55:27 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:56:51 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.24.124] has joined #lisp 09:58:54 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:58:57 bozhidar [~user@95.87.216.58] has joined #lisp 10:01:06 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:10 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:04:32 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-133-100.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:26 -!- gko [~gko@60-251-71-121.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 10:08:57 Can someone explain the difference between let/let* and multiple-value-bind to me? 10:09:28 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:09:34 let* gives sequential bindings -- like nested lets. 10:09:51 multiple-value-bind binds ... multiple value results. 10:10:25 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:11:07 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:12:36 phryk: and since functions can return multiple values, multiple-value-bind and friends are used to access them 10:12:46 But what does that mean? As far as I can see, multiple-value-bind just returns the result of the execution of the last form 10:13:02 let is like (lambda (x y z)), let* is like (lambda (x) (lambda (y) (lambda (z)))), m-v-b is like (m-v-call (lambda (x y z)) ...) 10:13:19 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:13:54 phryk: yes, the body of multiple-value-bind is an explicit PROGN, just like in LET 10:14:00 s/explicit/implicit/ 10:15:28 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:40 I still don't get it. I have the example from the clhs (http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm) and the two variables (f,r) aren't accessible after the call to multiple-value-bind 10:16:15 do you know what lexical scope is? 10:16:48 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-133-100.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:17:37 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-133-100.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:49 _pw_`` [~user@123.112.73.218] has joined #lisp 10:20:59 muddyferret_ [~muddyferr@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:09 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:22:03 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:42 rlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 10:23:09 fihi09`` [~user@pool-71-190-67-127.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:15 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:23:29 I know there is lexical and dynamic. 10:23:54 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:24:03 One is "kind of" global while the other one is local. But I didn't get into the fine differences of how one (i think the lexical) is not-exactly global 10:25:11 But within a let I have a local scope as well That is where it gets difficult for me to get the difference to let* 10:26:25 _class_ [~class@99-105-57-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:13 The lexical variables bound in a lexical scope are not visible outside that textual area. Other function calls can't see them. They don't last after the area is done. 10:27:35 -!- RobBlackwell [~RobBlackw@host86-169-91-64.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:35 -!- muddyferret [~muddyferr@88.Red-80-26-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:35 -!- tempire_ [~tempire@72.91.241.135] has quit [Quit: Tempire is going dark. Keep it crispy, folks.] 10:27:35 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:35 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7FE6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:36 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:36 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:36 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-57-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:36 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:36 -!- msmith [~msmith@75-150-13-105-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:36 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:36 -!- fihi09` [~user@pool-71-190-67-127.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:36 -!- _pw_` [~user@123.112.73.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:38 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 10:27:52 The visibility of a and b in (multiple-value-bind (a b) foo ...) is the ... part and nowhere else. 10:29:18 Yes. So multiple-value-bind binds only within its own body As far as I can tell, this is exactly what let* does. 10:29:53 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 10:30:57 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:31:10 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:31:26 phryk, multiple-value-bind will allow to store the multiple return values of a function inside variables 10:31:33 xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:36 let is to define local variables 10:32:02 ooooh 10:32:17 and let* allows you to do (let* ((a 42) (b a)) ...) 10:32:25 thanks, that after you telling me it was stupendously obvious from the clhs example m( 10:32:41 (where in this example, the value of b will be 42) 10:32:56 (and you can't do that with a let) 10:33:05 Yep. 10:33:37 I didn't understand that this calls a function and assigns the different parts of the returned list (if it is one) to supplied variables 10:34:03 Hm, and suddenly I'm writing my own gray stream class. Before I go any further, does anything like this exist now?: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/eaa379b14fd10cf 10:35:16 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 10:35:20 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:35:35 phryk: It is not a returned list, it really is several returned values 10:36:03 zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has joined #lisp 10:36:03 -!- zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:36:03 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 10:36:05 If you return a list, then it is one value, which happens to be a list 10:36:21 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 10:36:25 Returning several values is done eg. with the function values 10:36:59 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 10:37:07 phryk: note that there are also multiple-value-setq or (setf values), 10:37:29 Any ideas for ECL and building binaries? I get linker errors like "multiple definition of _eclm8yLVoUi8VKeU_RzzPG001", for cl-unicode-0.1.1/packages.o, cl-unicode-0.1.1/packages.o, cl-unicode-0.1.1/specials.o 10:37:48 they will demonstrate the behaviour you were initially expecting from m-v-b 10:37:56 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 10:38:11 msmith [~msmith@75-150-13-105-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 10:43:03 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 10:47:28 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:47:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:50:05 lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:51:03 H4ns [~user@pD4B9EAEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:39 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:52:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-172-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:52:59 -!- jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 10:53:57 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:02 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:54:06 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 10:55:58 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:56:33 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC866B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:39 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 10:57:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 10:57:39 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:59:45 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9EAEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:00:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:02:05 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:02:17 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 11:02:25 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:47 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-57-153.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:04:50 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 11:06:59 xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 11:07:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:08:23 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 11:09:09 sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:15 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:12:38 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.135.144] has joined #lisp 11:14:10 Vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.36.36] has joined #lisp 11:14:33 hi 11:14:40 there is a function that copy an object? 11:14:49 Vaaal: no. 11:14:57 ffff 11:15:06 can i ask why? 11:15:42 Vaaal: think deep vs. shallow copy. 11:15:51 -!- xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:11 Vaaal: think object identity. 11:16:38 Vaaal: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html has some info on the topic 11:16:42 jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has joined #lisp 11:17:23 thank you 11:17:31 -!- bozhidar [~user@95.87.216.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:11 benny [~benny@i577A7FE6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:45 vaaal: There are many functions to copy objects, but not a general function to do so. 11:18:53 bozhidar [~user@95.87.216.58] has joined #lisp 11:19:40 mmm 11:19:53 it's seems to understand that copy an object is a bad style of coding, right? 11:20:03 Not at all. 11:20:08 It is just not well defined. 11:20:15 What does it mean to copy an object? 11:20:16 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 11:20:45 i can say what i want to do: i want to create a new object with the same value in the slot 11:20:53 If I ask you to copy '(a b c) what should you copy? 11:21:11 What is the value of an array? 11:21:27 uhm 11:21:46 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:22:13 i would say that "value" is inappropriat for an array 11:22:25 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:29 What if the slot holds an array? 11:23:04 i want the slod holds a DIFFERENT array 11:23:17 mm 11:23:18 What about when you don't want that? 11:23:23 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:50 don't want what? That the slot holds a different array? 11:23:55 Sure. 11:24:03 That's a legitimate choice, isn't it? 11:24:04 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:24:10 i don't know, objects that share array, why not 11:24:21 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:24:25 yes, i think it's legitimate. 11:24:28 And that's why there isn't a generic copy operator. 11:24:34 yep 11:24:38 Copying isn't a generic operation. 11:24:46 ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has joined #lisp 11:24:59 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hcbpjsfsxqwhtsky] has left #lisp 11:25:17 bleakgadfly [8f610223@gateway/web/freenode/ip.143.97.2.35] has joined #lisp 11:25:19 ok, i will define my copy method 11:25:42 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 11:26:42 dmytrish [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 11:26:44 -!- dmytrish is now known as EarlGray 11:28:15 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:28:52 -!- Vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.36.36] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 11:29:47 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.156.140] has joined #lisp 11:31:50 -!- Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:32:58 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:33:39 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-133-100.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:33:52 pnq [~nick@ACA2E0B0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:56 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 11:44:08 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:31 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:09 hello everyone 11:49:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.135.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:31 hi there dto. 11:53:45 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-dnnrjfmgscxhmjqa] has joined #lisp 11:53:45 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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[~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:14:26 ÷¸ 13:14:33 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:23 ÷? 13:16:08 ±! 13:16:37 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:45 ¿? 13:17:53 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:20:31 that reminds me... 13:20:32  13:20:34 quit 13:20:39  13:20:45 we need support for these curlies, too 13:20:53  13:21:06 ahriman: see what you did? 13:21:07 to get a new, multi-dimensional Lisp ... 13:21:35 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:21:37 befunge in Lisp 13:22:20 for the third dimension there'd be  (arrow pointing out of the monitor), and  for the other direction ... 13:22:58 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:23:03 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-193-139.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 13:23:35 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:41 -!- sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has left #lisp 13:23:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:24:08 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 13:24:11 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:32 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:25:21 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 13:26:22 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.185.77] has joined #lisp 13:28:24 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:12 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 13:33:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:33:41 flip214, then, I think you should learn apl 13:33:45 It's a nice language 13:34:24 well, even brainf%ck is only 2-dimensional now ... 13:35:36 ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has joined #lisp 13:36:02 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-ngsbrxqvogscoyds] has joined #lisp 13:37:12 setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 13:39:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:55 -!- bleakgadfly [8f610223@gateway/web/freenode/ip.143.97.2.35] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:40:47 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 13:41:32 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 13:41:45 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:42:02 -!- setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43:35 Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-124-176-52-91.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:45:23 kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.225] has joined #lisp 13:45:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.163.225] has quit [Changing host] 13:45:23 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:45:57 lichtblau: thank you again for adding those new command-line options. they are making my life easier. 13:47:03 yeah, I was tired of typing --eval '(sb-ext:quit)' myself. 13:47:32 -!- Guest74278 is now known as xristos 13:47:50 j #zeromq 13:48:26 lichtblau: to be honest, i think i'm going to use --non-interactive even more than --quit 13:49:04 lichtblau: i usually used it to do a quick "does it build from scratch?" test to make sure I didn't screw up my .asd after a lengthy random hackfest 13:52:34 Makes sense, but I still think it's nicer to explain --non-interactive in terms of the low-level options than to just have the high-level one. 13:53:00 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:03 I've never been able to figure out what the allegro options do, for example. "-batch" implies weird stuff (and still not everything I need). I hope SBCL now gets it right in comparison. 13:54:48 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:54:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:55:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:57:16 -!- nonduality [d41f5a2d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.31.90.45] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:57:51 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:57:59 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:58:48 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:58:52 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:00:17 gly [~gly@180.136.73.133] has joined #lisp 14:01:02 -!- gly [~gly@180.136.73.133] has quit [Client Quit] 14:01:26 it's live! http://www.indiegogo.com/SBCL-Threading-Improvements-1 14:01:29 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:07 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:02:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.185.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:03:22 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:31 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@CPE-124-176-52-91.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:07:18 xan_ [~xan@client195-220.wlan.hu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:37 awesomebeard! 14:07:50 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:07:58 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:10:39 mperillo [~manlio@151.75.71.52] has joined #lisp 14:12:26 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:12:31 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:14:46 EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 14:16:04 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:16:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:16:28 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:50 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:20:00 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@175.40.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:20:32 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:20:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 14:21:03 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:04 -!- scottyn [~scottyn@13.168.70.115.static.exetel.com.au] has left #lisp 14:24:31 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:25:11 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:21 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 14:26:47 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:49 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:27:39 Good morning, lispy people. 14:28:31 :) 14:28:57 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:06 'morning 14:29:45 EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has joined #lisp 14:30:46 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:25 hello lispers. does anyone know if it's possible to run the Win32 version of SBCL in Wine, in order to build a Win32 executable without having Windows? 14:31:42 i've tried it before and got an error, i could reproduce it again if needed 14:32:01 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:03 *dto* installs wine 14:33:08 *z0d* drinks wine 14:33:37 dto: hlavaty managed to do it 14:33:44 hlavaty: ping 14:33:49 hmm awesome 14:34:15 now i can stop using my moms crufty old win32 laptop 14:34:26 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-103-241.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:34:56 dto: in case that doesn't work, can always just run windows in a vm just to make the binary 14:35:03 right but then i need an XP license 14:35:10 right... 14:35:31 dto: your mom might have a crusty old xp license 14:35:39 no it's for Vista 14:35:46 its unBEARABLE 14:35:50 she has so much random shit installed 14:36:02 it takes 10 seconds just to CLOSE an explorer window that has 2 or 3 tabs 14:36:04 dto: http://sbcl-internals.cliki.net/Build%20on%20Wine works today with Anton's branch, and soon with upstream SBCL 14:36:13 lichtblau: awesome!! 14:36:51 i want people to be able to take any Blocky project and say "publish as Windows executable" 14:36:53 dto: why do you need XP for a VM? 14:37:35 p_l|backup: what do you mean? if i really need Real Windows TM instead of Wine, then Wine in a VM wouldn't do. i need REal windows (virtual or not) 14:41:15 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:41:38 well, the question was why XP, instead of 7 14:41:49 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:13 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 p_l|backup: wouldn't 7 be more of a resource hog 14:43:38 oh i have a 7 license DUH! 14:43:49 i paid for one with my HP laptop but never booted it---just installed ubuntu 14:44:10 my moms desktop is full of icons 14:44:12 dto: not necessarily... actually, it might work better if configured properly on new hardware 14:44:12 FULL 14:44:16 like a mahjongg boads 14:44:29 p_l|backup: in a vm? how? 14:44:37 doesn't it have to like, simulate every step the processor makes? 14:45:06 this is a dual 64-bit athlon fx with 3.0ghz per core and 4.0gb ram :) 14:45:21 also recently upgraded to near-silent liquid cooling 14:45:46 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:51 dto, you're back! 14:45:57 hi tic 14:46:00 heh 14:46:06 where were you? 14:47:05 i went off the internet for about 8 days 14:47:16 and everything with you! 14:47:28 yes i needed to rearrange my online presence. 14:47:36 okay. :-) 14:47:37 dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:44 tic: whats up? 14:47:54 dto: your athlon has hw virtualisation support, so no :) 14:48:07 dto, work, mostly. (i.e. coding) soon it'll be non-work, which means ....coding! 14:48:08 p_l|backup: oh. wow. what is that? 14:48:09 dto, and you? 14:48:17 tic: coding! :) 14:48:20 lisp GUI 14:48:43 Blocky. I like the idea 14:48:46 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:59 wellll i spent a long time in the name search 14:49:00 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 14:49:21 lisp gui? 14:49:27 :-) 14:49:34 okay, time to leave. *poof* 14:49:42 corni [~corni@schleptop.visitor.camp.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:44 well, i'm vaguely curious as i'm working on the same and have some significant progress 14:49:46 -!- corni [~corni@schleptop.visitor.camp.ccc.de] has quit [Changing host] 14:49:46 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 14:49:49 but sure 14:49:51 oGMo: cool 14:49:58 tic: have a good one :) 14:50:14 oGMo: would you be interested in trying out a mini alpha release with 3 playable examples? 14:50:18 dto: basically, a way to abstract and interrupt ring-0 behaviour that is supported in hw, so even ring-0 code runs on real cpu without binary translation, and VM only has to interrupt in order to emulate devices... and I recall that there might be special drivers for virtualised windows to better talk with hypervisor 14:50:21 oGMo: i was going to tag it in the next hour or two 14:50:39 dto: what's this? 14:50:43 p_l|backup: thats amazing. 14:50:48 -!- EarlGray [~dmytrish@195.238.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50:58 oGMo: my lisp gui? 14:51:15 dto: ahh well i'd be curious to take a look sure 14:51:42 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:49 if you want instant gratification there is a video on http://blocky.io , as I'm fixing a bug or two before i put this out 14:51:52 dto & fe[nl]ix: lichtblau already published the latest howto ;-) beware though that there are some limitations that obscure features are not implemented in wine; the first one i hit is asynchronous locking :-D 14:52:38 dto: cool. i'm almost certainly taking a different approach but it will be interesting 14:52:52 well, i only need the save-lisp-and-die part to run in wine 14:53:53 actually hmm, maybe not SO far off heh .. that looks moderately smalltalk-influenced 14:54:16 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.93] has joined #lisp 14:54:26 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:17 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has joined #lisp 14:56:11 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:56:46 am0c [~am0c@218.51.116.50] has joined #lisp 14:56:54 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-200.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:57:22 oGMo: very 14:58:59 dto: yeah i'm working on something vaguely similar, but less squeak/pd-like, though i suppose doing that would be possible 15:00:13 using cairo to render at the moment, but the backend is easily extensible 15:01:52 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.49.47] has joined #lisp 15:02:09 -!- theBlackDragon [~user@212.123.24.66] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:04:18 -!- fourier` [~user@h-199-43.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04:59 oGMo: well hey if you are interesting in following, check out the #blocky channel, we need members :) 15:05:03 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-deweioawfxwwyynf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:05:09 oGMo: what is cairo like? 15:05:11 dto: heh k 15:05:13 any screenshots? 15:05:33 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:45 hlavaty, p_l|backup thanks for the info on virtualization and Wine 15:05:48 no screenshots yet, but once i get this layer done i'll consider it featureful enough to post stuff 15:05:49 gjhhj [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:09 dto: cairo kinda sucks and the CL binding needs a bit of updating, but it works 15:06:27 i'm finding opengl to be pretty comfortable after an initial mindbend 15:06:35 it's not as robust as GL, but it has a lot of convenience stuff 15:07:24 dto: GL is nice, you just have to do a lot of things manually 15:07:41 oh well, that's what my wrapper is for. 15:07:48 i wrapped SDL initially 15:09:24 well. there's nothing you can't do, and because of a few CL modules you don't really have to do too much work, but cairo is a decent higher-level api wrap 15:09:49 http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/screenshot1ekc.png/ 15:09:59 -!- upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: upwardindex] 15:10:01 i have to eat something. i'll be back in a few minutes. 15:15:53 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 15:20:31 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:21:12 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:54 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:23:39 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-131-84.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:26:36 HG` [~HG@p5DC0526E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:33 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.49.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:08 dto: do you realize that after your bickering with someone related to the militaro-industrial complex, we thought you had been snatched by some secret military organization, and being enslaved to work in some subterranean computer center. 15:30:56 That's what they'd like you to think. 15:31:45 hello, you can buy great watches and viagra at trappedinamalwarefactorypleasesendhelp www.4realztotally.leg1t.com 15:31:48 upwardindex [~upwardind@modemcable016.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:32:07 then again, I doubt they'd use lisp writers for nefarious purposes 15:32:07 anvandare: wrong channel 15:32:31 hmm, yes :\ sorry Xach 15:32:37 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.109] has joined #lisp 15:33:37 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:36:46 -!- gjhhj [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:31 sellout [~Adium@93.82.165.101] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 wow. Almost halfway there already! 15:42:47 it's been 1.75 hours. 15:43:16 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.176.70] has joined #lisp 15:44:34 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45:14 pjb: i have got a lot of conflicting information about it 15:45:22 and thoughts 15:45:25 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 15:45:25 *stassats`* waits for external-formats work 15:45:43 threads are boring 15:46:22 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:46:53 stassats`: you don't need to rain on the parade, stassats`! 15:48:25 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:35 a boring parade! 15:52:26 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-onzmxjpmyjwwlfln] has joined #lisp 15:53:00 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:29 does CCL use futexes on linux? 15:54:54 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.156.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:55:05 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55:42 looks like it does 15:57:36 *Fade* nods 15:57:51 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:02:12 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:46 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 23:22:46 23:22:46 -!- names: ccl-logbot routebee phadthai dto ch077179_ pearle waaaaargh Mococa Athas X-Scale mrSpec juniorroy ltriant drdo ISF fisxoj Jubb kleppari_ freiksenet fourier` s0ber vert2 syrinx_ markskil1eck kennyd z1l0g araujo carlocci Joreji tfb ch077179 srid rpg lisper bgs100 dmiles_afk SegFaultAX ASau mstevens slyrus_ cracauer jcazevedo El_Diablo realitygrill setmeaway AntiSpamMeta abeaumont Spion depy kslt1 ikki betta_y_omega Bike z0d Khisanth rswarbrick kpreid fbass 23:22:46 -!- names: macrobat otwieracz sellout anvandare dostoyevsky gffa djuber Lycurgus replore BlankVerse REPLeffect phax Aisling stassats` zenbalrog hlavaty drl DGASAU benny jamief Nshag H4ns lnostdal msmith peterhil` Krystof djinni` fihi09`` rlevel tempire tritchey muddyferret_ _pw_`` mathrick nha Hun bobbysmith007 housel Yuuhi` Vivitron` nicdev hugod Phoodus attila_lendvai insomniaSalt incandenza pchrist p_l|backup hakkum cfy Hundenn quackv2 ahriman daniel__ madnificent 23:22:46 -!- names: cods Modius MeanWeen Tristam Oddity sonnym cmatei Demosthenes Odin- _root_ cnl Inode gigamonkey zeroish antifuchs sbalousek Xach doc_who sebyte McMAGIC--Copy Younder Guest9666 bandu jeekl tarmil EyesIsMine dlind phryk katesmith cataska cYmen sykopomp stepnem jsnell michelp` xristos mikejs kpal tty234 Kryztof aoh bfein tsuru cpt_nemo CrEddy Amadiro Jasko Posterdati parabolize kiooeht Adrinael __mal easyE JuanDaugherty joast sanjoyd samebchase peterhil 23:22:46 -!- names: fe[nl]ix Obfuscate lucca Tordek Elench DrForr ocharles The_third_man dgiaimo pjb j-f Salamander acelent ianmcorvidae ecraven hyoyoung bege daimrod geoffhotchkiss billstclair wivlaro tunes cpc26`` redline6561 Euthydemus` srcerer martinhex __main__ Ralith mon_key space-cadet njan koollman Yamazaki-kun dRbiG |nix|` scode tessier lichtblau acieroid Intensity Dodek schoppenhauer C-Keen zakwilson prip clop CallToPower maxm pinterface _3b yroeht literal mgr 23:22:46 -!- names: guther elliottjohnson ozzloy weirdo Jasko2 lonstein ymas antoszka felipe quasisane clog dfox yahooooo ski_ mornfall Borbus BrianRice reb`` Patzy shachaf boyscared jiacobucci oGMo elliottcable cmm tetsuharu levi nuba morphling johs guaqua jrockway Iceland_jack pbusser3 ``Erik Quadrescence OliverUv scharan @Zhivago loke bohanlon eli froggey ineiros nullman finnrobi tomaw em Axioplase_ derrida schme a7p sbryant Zephyrus devhost kjellkt naryl zbigniew yan_ 23:22:46 -!- names: galdor eno Fade Mandus kanru jkantz_ chr`` albino fds dcrawford foom daedric rotty egn churib tychoish rvncerr sirmacik hyko fmu luis Pepe_ mtd _krappie_ ve specbot tic ilmari felideon Jabberwockey PissedNumlock joshe j_king rsynnott pkhuong frodef tvaalen sshirokov krl hohum xale pok sid3k |3b| adeht df_aldur Bucciarati spacebat herbieB SpitfireWP klutometis kloeri erg cmbntr_ 23:23:30 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-87.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:27:04 urandom__ [~user@p548A562F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:30 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28:10 corni [~corni@81.162.92.49] has joined #lisp 23:28:10 -!- corni [~corni@81.162.92.49] has quit [Changing host] 23:28:10 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 23:30:11 anyone about? 23:30:36 yeah 23:30:48 welcome, routebee 23:31:02 i'm teaching my son to use emacs and i was thinking lisp may be a good first programming language for him 23:31:10 what can you do with it? 23:31:16 everything 23:31:26 it's a general purpose multi-paradigm language 23:32:08 so for instance if we wrote a C++ music program you could access it in emace through lisp? 23:32:26 just a simple a b c d e f 23:32:27 routebee: you could start with emacs lisp. 23:32:40 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:32:41 routebee: Land of Lisp might be worth investigating 23:32:51 url? 23:33:03 http://www.amazon.com/Land-Lisp-Learn-Program-Game/dp/1593272812 23:33:21 thanks looking now 23:33:30 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:57 djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:04 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:35:18 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:36:00 thats perfect sdryant thanks 23:36:40 might even include how to setup SLIME 23:37:01 There's a better way now 23:37:44 Xach: ? 23:38:45 quicklisp-slime-helper is a bit easier these days 23:39:40 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483BCFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:39:59 did you write that up? 23:40:23 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-169.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:41 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:46 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87e6c2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 23:45:55 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-77-233.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:57 Yes. 23:52:34 pnq [~nick@ACA24423.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:50 zargio [~zargio@c-68-52-135-244.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:34 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:56:07 zfx [~zfx@host109-156-61-112.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:07 -!- zfx [~zfx@host109-156-61-112.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:56:07 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 23:56:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 23:58:24 corni [~corni@node-cqqc8osv7xm40ku.camp.ccc.de] has joined #lisp 23:58:24 -!- corni [~corni@node-cqqc8osv7xm40ku.camp.ccc.de] has quit [Changing host] 23:58:24 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp