00:01:49 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 00:02:15 -!- hypercube32 [~hypercube@231.125.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:15 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:12:19 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:21 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 00:18:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:22:06 lucca [~lucca@kuu.accela.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:10 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 00:24:45 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:25:42 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:27:18 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 00:31:23 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:36:43 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.56.212] has joined #lisp 00:36:48 -!- alfa_y_omega is now known as betta_y_omega 00:41:53 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 00:43:04 sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:44:35 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:13 pnq [~nick@ACA2205B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:03 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:47:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:46 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:57:25 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:01:26 tsanhwa [~user@210.13.109.82] has joined #lisp 01:15:17 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483BB7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:17:00 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-195-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:21:50 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 01:22:33 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:31 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@130.56.92.101] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:37:57 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@198.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:46:44 CrazyEddy [~suppletiv@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:47:02 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:38 cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has joined #lisp 01:47:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has quit [Changing host] 01:47:38 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:50:18 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:54:06 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:50 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2205B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:58:13 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:21 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:48 pnq [~nick@AC8446FC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:30 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:36 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:10:50 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 02:16:49 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:11 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:23:39 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:34:14 -!- Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: bbl] 02:47:31 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:15 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:13 -!- ympbyc [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #lisp 02:52:42 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:04 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4295.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:31 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8CB93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:53 -!- el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8C829.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:04:58 darkf [~darkf@unaffiliated/darkf] has joined #lisp 03:04:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 03:06:46 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:37 deathmoniac [~needcoffe@201-25-142-177.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:14:00 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:16:21 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:56 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:26 -!- tsanhwa [~user@210.13.109.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:20:46 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 03:22:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:24:41 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:25:31 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:17 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:35:49 Axioplase [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 03:42:56 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.65] has joined #lisp 03:43:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:21 is there a term to describe programs that are not portable according to CL's spec, but work on a number of implementations and fail gracefully (either at compile-time or run-time) on the parts that are not adapted? 03:57:31 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 03:57:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:02:03 seangrove [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:03 All of them? :P 04:10:35 nowhere_man: non conforming. 04:11:18 depends on your definition of "fail gracefully". 04:14:41 Rakura [~Rakura@pool-72-66-227-161.ronkva.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:17 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.140] has joined #lisp 04:17:07 -!- Rakura [~Rakura@pool-72-66-227-161.ronkva.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 04:19:45 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20:51 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rhjrwdrkmyynbcgj] has joined #lisp 04:22:26 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:14 setmeaway [stemearay@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 04:25:09 -!- Hundenn [~Hunden@e180099238.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:25:29 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:26:11 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:05 Hunden [~Hunden@e180104191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:40:30 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-238-154.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:33 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-140-87.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:46:46 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:57:15 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DC11E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:06 jingtao [~jingtaozf@117.79.232.151] has joined #lisp 05:13:27 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8446FC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:14:37 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:18:25 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@117.79.232.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:57 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:26:13 sacho [~sacho@87-126-4-140.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 05:27:32 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wternyuebythtlcj] has joined #lisp 05:37:40 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:38:39 jingtao [~jingtaozf@117.79.232.151] has joined #lisp 05:40:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 05:40:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 05:40:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:40:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 05:42:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.65] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 05:48:37 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.29.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 05:50:29 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7D90D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:56:51 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 05:59:00 fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 06:01:13 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 06:03:53 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-16-92.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:06:58 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:59 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@155.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:13:33 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.120.150] has joined #lisp 06:16:37 DelPuerto [~youguy@55.Red-217-125-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:56 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-16-92.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:20:57 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.120.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:50 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:23:27 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:29:01 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 06:30:03 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 06:36:01 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:36:34 tsanhwa [~user@210.13.109.82] has joined #lisp 06:37:42 gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.120.150] has joined #lisp 06:41:06 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:20 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:40 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:47:28 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 06:48:23 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:53 good morning 06:49:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:50:12 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-16-92.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 06:52:11 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-238-154.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:04 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-49-48.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:37 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:22 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.148] has joined #lisp 06:59:15 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:00:29 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-qtornlkdstckkrzh] has joined #lisp 07:12:54 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 07:18:27 Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 07:20:40 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:23:41 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:26:03 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 07:27:20 morning lispers 07:28:45 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:30:07 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-55-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:07 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-55-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:30:07 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:32:23 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:37:48 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:39:16 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-118-167.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:40:57 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-54-189.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:43 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-45-30.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:43:38 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 07:44:09 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:44:47 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:45:34 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 07:46:15 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DC11E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 07:48:13 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 07:49:08 hi, how would you translate into cl this: while (var != EOF) ? (I know how to deal with the while loop but what would the EOF equivalent be? 07:50:07 You tried to search? 07:50:27 francogrex: How are you reading from the file? 07:50:59 reading from standard input so it would be (read ...) 07:51:17 You tried to search? 07:51:31 francogrex: And what do the docs for READ say? 07:51:51 That's first result from google. 07:52:05 francogrex: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/files-and-file-io.html 07:54:00 wow: https://github.com/pyb/zen 07:54:24 -!- puddingpimp [jjankrh@118-92-22-141.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:55:17 X Server in lisp? 07:55:20 Whoah. 07:55:37 sellout1: I think then we'll need to specify a symbol for eof in read unlike in C where EOF is already something there 07:57:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-104-117.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:59:47 this what I came up with but it's ugly: (loop (if (equal (read nil :eof) :eof) (return) (print "..."))) unlike the simple C example 07:59:53 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:02:15 francogrex: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/files-and-file-io.html 08:04:31 z0d: thanks but as you might have noticed already have my answer from somwehere else 08:05:43 francogrex: That chapter gives specific examples that maybe help you get to a cleaner solution. 08:06:03 puddingpimp [exvqfcuc@118-93-71-58.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:08:26 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.109.120.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:19 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-030-115.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:22 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:13:31 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082A3A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:27 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326C12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:16:18 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:20:35 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 08:23:50 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:24:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:30:22 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 08:31:11 Another question about "case" it tests on eql right? or can it also be mlade to test on equal? 08:32:19 splint [~splint@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 08:32:37 hello 08:33:09 I have (defparameter var (something)) on top of one lisp file that's part of the asd system 08:34:20 but (asdf:load-system 'system) updates var only if I made changes to the source. how can I handle that? to update just the var (and not entire file) every time I load my system 08:34:22 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:35:45 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 08:37:54 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 08:39:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:40:03 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7559a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:50 trigen [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has joined #lisp 08:45:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:21 -!- CrazyEddy [~suppletiv@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:33 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:48:23 wanted something like that: (case x ((numberp x) (print "Found")) ... but then I think case is not appropriate here 08:48:32 splint: I belive that asdf detects what files have been modified and only loads those 08:49:52 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-171.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 08:49:57 hey 08:51:18 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:52:36 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-49-48.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:52:49 <_3b> francogrex: wouldn't that be COND rather than CASE? 08:53:14 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d069726.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:16 Moin! 08:53:26 <_3b> even if you did evaluate the first form and use EQUAL, comparing X to (numberp x) seems a bit odd :p 08:53:34 can slime expand parenscript forms? :-) 08:53:59 <_3b> parenscript comes with something to let it do so i think 08:54:53 <_3b> extras/js-expander.el maybe 08:55:09 _3b: yes I'm using cond, but translateing switch case from C put me on the wrong track 08:56:50 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-030-115.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:57:20 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7559a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:06 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:08 lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.42.22] has joined #lisp 09:02:15 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@55.Red-217-125-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:03:19 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:40 -!- lifeng [~lifeng@155.69.42.22] has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:44 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:47 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:04:51 hmm... how is redefinition of types that have live instances done? I mean, I know of the MOP part in that, but how is it actually fired? 09:05:27 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-63-224.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:05 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:06:33 I have (defparameter var (something)) on top of one lisp file that's part of the asd system 09:06:40 but (asdf:load-system 'system) updates var only if I made changes to the source. how can I handle that? to update just the var (and not entire file) every time I load my system 09:07:39 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:07:48 splint: (asdf:load-system 'system :force t) iirc 09:08:07 splint: otherwise it won't recompile the file 09:08:17 (think of Make) 09:09:17 yeah I understand why it's not realoding 09:09:52 force would reload everything. is there a way to reload just those lines when changes were not made 09:09:59 DelPuerto [~youguy@55.Red-217-125-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:07 also, you can create a function to handle initialization to pristine state 09:14:00 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-63-224.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:15:32 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:15:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 09:15:32 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:17:32 -!- fmu` is now known as fmu 09:18:21 -!- tsanhwa [~user@210.13.109.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:19:13 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 09:19:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:20:10 splint: try using the method (asdf:perform :after ...) in order to initialize your variable after the system has been loaded by ASDF 09:20:31 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@55.Red-217-125-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:24:26 what would that gain me though? 09:24:48 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-4-140.btc-net.bg] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:24:48 it still wouldn't reload it every time even if there were no changes to the source I think? 09:25:04 maybe it's best to put init code in the function as p_l|backup suggested 09:26:12 nefo [~nefo@61.184.206.212] has joined #lisp 09:26:12 -!- nefo [~nefo@61.184.206.212] has quit [Changing host] 09:26:12 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 09:27:09 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-199-138.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:16 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:41 DelPuerto [~youguy@134.Red-81-44-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:03 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:31:19 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:58 jingtao` [~jingtaozf@117.79.232.151] has joined #lisp 09:34:42 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@117.79.232.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:34:55 any idea whether the kawa backend works in slime? 09:38:24 splint: yes, you can put the initialization code in a function and call that function after the system is loaded 09:39:39 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:45:18 azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has joined #lisp 09:47:52 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:48:52 DelPuerto_ [~youguy@55.Red-217-125-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:57 -!- DelPuerto_ [~youguy@55.Red-217-125-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:51:17 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@134.Red-81-44-91.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:53:02 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 09:56:14 kafergots [~kafergots@FL1-119-241-244-73.chb.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 09:58:08 fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 10:01:11 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:07:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-46-38.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:08:24 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-124-186.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 10:23:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A4035A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:26 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rhjrwdrkmyynbcgj] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:33:52 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:33:52 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:21 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:43 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.129.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:39 ympbyc1 [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:44:12 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:48:24 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-181-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:03 abeaumont [~abeaumont@130.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 10:53:47 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-199-138.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:48 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.56.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:54:59 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:56:07 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-181-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:56:12 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-181-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:36 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-199-138.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:57:56 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BAEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:51 leo2007 [~leo@th041110.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 11:00:46 H4ns``` [~user@pD4B9EF19.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:10 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:03:25 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:04:06 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC962A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:34 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has left #lisp 11:10:43 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:27 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:12:27 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-171.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:14:18 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 11:15:11 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:15:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:39 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.95.119] has joined #lisp 11:16:41 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18:37 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-138-254.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:18:41 -!- H4ns``` is now known as H4ns 11:19:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:20:15 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Fear not, I will return] 11:21:26 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:22:17 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has left #lisp 11:22:22 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:22:48 hi 11:22:52 pjb: are you there? 11:24:54 I implemented conditions and used handler-case to print out error, how can I block program without fall into debugger? 11:25:11 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@130.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:27:30 Posterdati: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html 11:33:30 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has left #lisp 11:34:27 z0d: I read this 11:36:21 Posterdati: paste some code that demonstrates your problem in isolation. 11:36:34 s/paste/lisppaste/ 11:36:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041110.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:36:49 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:37:12 ok 11:38:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A4035A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:38:46 H4ns: this is an example http://paste.lisp.org/display/123503 11:39:03 H4ns: then in the calling function I'd like to put 11:39:10 leo2007 [~leo@th041110.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 11:39:33 H4ns: (handler-case (find-element (where :name "test")) 11:39:48 (parse-error () ())) 11:40:25 Posterdati: lisppaste does not work for me, but here is a guess: do you export parse-error? 11:40:41 H4ns: question is, if I like to stop program in the calling function after the error 11:40:46 export? 11:41:11 it is defined in the code with define-condition 11:41:15 Posterdati: never mind. i need to see some self-contained code that demonstrates your problem, but lisppaste seems to be dead. 11:41:26 :( 11:41:36 Posterdati: is your define-condition in the same package as the calling function? 11:41:45 yes 11:41:53 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:41:53 ok. so use some other pastebin 11:42:12 DelPuerto [~youguy@55.Red-217-125-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:53 please retry: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123503#1 11:43:07 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:45:28 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:46:11 -!- kafergots is now known as zqwell 11:46:24 Posterdati: did you try warn/handler-case in isolation? 11:47:55 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:14 abeaumont [~abeaumont@223.212-8-68.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 11:49:16 Posterdati: http://paste.lisp.org/+2NAN/2 11:49:28 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:51:36 sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:51:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:13 pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:45 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@55.Red-217-125-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:55:22 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-124-186.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:57:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:57:57 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 11:58:56 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:02:32 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:02:34 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:07:05 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.24] has joined #lisp 12:07:15 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:11 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-16-92.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:09:56 vervic [~vervic@081-003-214-195.yesss.at] has joined #lisp 12:12:35 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-124-186.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 12:13:00 -!- zmv is now known as Guest43341 12:14:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-54-189.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:14:23 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:14:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041110.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:15:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.41.125] has joined #lisp 12:16:58 Ttm [~ripault@sao-paulo.lrde.epita.fr] has joined #lisp 12:17:01 -!- darkf [~darkf@unaffiliated/darkf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:02 hi 12:17:09 pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:59 -!- pnq is now known as Guest19358 12:19:11 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.41.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:28 -!- Guest43341 is now known as MyNickIsUnavaila 12:20:48 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:21:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:22:15 -!- MyNickIsUnavaila is now known as zmv 12:24:21 -!- vervic [~vervic@081-003-214-195.yesss.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:24:42 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:25:10 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:22 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-159-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:28:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:48 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-16-92.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:29:27 -!- Guest19358 [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:29:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:30:35 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 12:35:01 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jposivlefcrniaxn] has joined #lisp 12:37:30 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-174.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 12:38:07 leo2007 [~leo@th041110.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 12:38:45 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-199-138.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:41:35 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:42:15 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 12:44:18 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:36 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:06 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:49:08 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-198.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 12:51:25 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-237-243.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:04 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jposivlefcrniaxn] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:09 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-198.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:56:14 chp [~chp@76.191.104.101] has joined #lisp 12:56:21 H4ns: here again! 12:56:51 -!- splint [~splint@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: .] 12:57:23 H4ns: I saw your pasted code... 12:58:04 H4ns: ok, but in my case, some signal are simple warning (no program exit) others are errors (program should stop). 12:58:27 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-224.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 12:59:21 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-16-92.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:59:35 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:00 Vivitron` [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:33 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:44 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.41.125] has joined #lisp 13:13:03 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:19 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:25 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7559a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:08 pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:43 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:56 Hi, what does #+nil ? (it's realy annoying to google those symbols) 13:17:40 BlueF [~lijing07@61.135.165.162] has joined #lisp 13:18:19 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:18:38 daimrod: it means "read the following form if :nil is present in CL:*FEATURES*" 13:18:45 daimrod: see http://l1sp.org/search?q=%23%2B 13:18:52 daimrod: it's used to "disable" the form following it. Basically, #+symbol checks for the symbol in cl:*features*, and if not found, ignors next form 13:18:54 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:19:06 the opposite for #- 13:19:09 daimrod: since :nil is not commonly there, it's a way some people use to comment out a form. 13:19:12 not a very great way. 13:19:32 yeah, we had at least one "New Implementation of Lisp" system 13:20:24 bobbysmith007: oh nice. 13:20:49 vervic [~vervic@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:20:58 daimrod: l1sp.org is a great place to be able to look up all the funky syntaxy stuff you run up against 13:21:08 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.29.189] has joined #lisp 13:21:56 normally you can link to http://l1sp.org/cl/ e.g. http://l1sp.org/cl/11.1.2.1.2 13:22:06 more of xach's work, makes it way easier to find the specific format directives as well (ie: ~{) 13:22:08 but #+ defeats that scheme because I don't check url fragments 13:22:13 well, thank you all. 13:22:17 http://l1sp.org/cl/~{ does work 13:22:33 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:52 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:23:39 ok I got it, but it's dirty :( 13:24:03 Xach: I recall you used that read only k/v store by Bernstein? 13:24:50 p_l|backup: not for this. 13:25:03 but i use it for usenet-legend a little bit. 13:25:28 Xach: does it do any optimization on hashing? 13:25:54 *p_l|backup* was considering an application of such database that would use perfect hashes 13:26:43 p_l|backup: I don't know, sorry. 13:27:01 -!- Zephyrus__ [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 13:27:24 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 13:27:28 http://cr.yp.to/cdb.html has the spec 13:27:40 daimrod: so it means the following form is to be used only on the New Implementation of Lisp (NIL). 13:27:48 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-237-243.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:28:33 daimrod: better use #-(and). 13:28:39 Posterdati: i don't quite understand your problem. 13:28:46 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 13:28:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:54 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:17 hmm.. CDB doesn't seem to do any optimization to the hashing functions themselves 13:31:20 I have a question : In a macro, I have a list made from slots and strings, and i would like to be able to get each element separately, is there any way I could do that ? 13:31:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123506 13:31:58 here is an example 13:32:38 Ttm: the same way you'd do that in a function.' 13:32:43 Ttm: Is the length of the list always the same? 13:32:45 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:32:56 pkhuong: Well, macro lambda lists can destructure (if appropriate to the situation) 13:33:25 Xach: a combination of CDB, maybe with perfect hashing, and manardb would be a quite interesting thing, IMHO :) 13:33:32 no Xach 13:34:35 -!- vervic [~vervic@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 13:34:36 Ttm: I think that you are duplicating the functionality of FORMAT there. 13:34:49 yep, kindah, but it's to wrap around 13:35:13 i want to make a generic function which is supposed to print an array with few bonuses 13:35:15 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:35:28 (something similar to sb-profile:report, but in a more generic way) 13:37:23 -!- BlueF [~lijing07@61.135.165.162] has quit [Quit: ] 13:38:02 p_l|backup: perfect hashing for millions of keys could be painful. Keep in mind that CDB has been optimised for on-disk databases as well, so, here, the streaming model (with memory access costs being incurred per-block) is a good representation of reality. 13:39:06 pkhuong: I wasn't thinking of hashing for that kind of size, though 13:39:28 pkhuong: actually, the perfect hashing came to me due to working with android 13:40:37 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-222-37.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:41 -!- azaq23 [~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:41:54 (another idea was translation database files, but I wasn't sure about those) 13:45:23 so under hundred of thousand keys (pushing it), write-once datafiles 13:45:38 that could be blitted into memory 13:46:28 sbryant [~freenode@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:36 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:14 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:54 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:50:55 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-124-186.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:51:50 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wternyuebythtlcj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:40 pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:43 zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-124-186.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:52:52 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:53:09 -!- zmv is now known as Guest59304 13:53:29 cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has joined #lisp 13:53:29 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has quit [Changing host] 13:53:29 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:53:41 -!- Guest59304 is now known as zmv 13:55:09 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:34 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:55:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:57:04 SuChek_ [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has joined #lisp 13:57:25 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:57:31 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:41 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 13:58:14 pkhuong: btw, is there anything special done by SBCL(or any other implementation) upon redefinition of a type? (including structs and classes)? 13:58:24 pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:34 redefinition of structs is unsupported. 14:01:07 redefinition of classes is executed incrementally, as each object is accessed. 14:01:44 As for the compiler, since structs can't be redefined, it justs uses the current layout information. Classes always go through a dynamic lookup. 14:01:55 I was actually more looking for a way to catch it, to avoid cases of inconsistent type info and actual instances (part of my exercise in designing a VM) 14:02:04 ok 14:02:07 good to know 14:02:36 *p_l|backup* was thinking of putting aside some bits in type info pointer as version number 14:03:28 there'll never be enough data to support redefinition. 14:03:51 Just add a new class and change the name mapping. 14:04:15 Zhivago: that's not so good if the user wants transparent upgrade 14:04:49 p_l|backup: we just always point to the correct type info, and mark the type info object as obsolete. 14:04:50 cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has joined #lisp 14:04:50 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has quit [Changing host] 14:04:50 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:04:58 -!- ympbyc1 [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:06:07 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@189-47-124-186.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:55 pkhuong: my idea basically had a "type pointer" as first word of any complex object (that is, not cons, not fixnum, not reference) that served as reference to a datastructure describing the layout of the object, including what is a pointer etc. 14:08:58 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:09:11 sure. 14:09:28 kinda trying to adapt Dis' model to Lisp 14:10:28 I sometimes wonder what could be done if we separated that type info from objects. 14:11:23 pkhuong: Dis only included a pointer to actual type descriptor with the object 14:11:50 GC would then consult type descriptor to check what is a pointer, for example 14:12:04 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 14:12:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:12:47 sure, but if the runtime assumes that it can always map objects to type descriptors, you lose some design possibilities. 14:13:00 while it wouldn't completely fit with conses unless you disallow inline fixnums, it might be useful 14:14:33 then again, with shared memory, you really want reference updates to consist of a single write. 14:14:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.41.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:15:03 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-222-37.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:16:31 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 14:16:59 well, it doesn't increase the amount of writes, since type info pointer is written only once when object is allocated 14:18:30 -!- DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Quit: reboot] 14:19:01 -!- kjellkt_ is now known as kjellkt 14:19:24 again, only if you don't separate type info from the data. 14:20:06 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:16 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 14:20:17 pkhoung: Dylan does that, iirc. 14:20:52 I think it effectively uses a pair of class and object when it can't infer the class statically, iirc. 14:22:42 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 14:22:57 Zhivago: unless that pair is flattened as two slots in the parent object, that's pretty lossy nowadays. 14:23:04 test [b4e641a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.180.230.65.160] has joined #lisp 14:23:28 The point was that you rarely needed it, since you could in the majority of cases figure it out from the containing structure. 14:23:50 -!- test [b4e641a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.180.230.65.160] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23:54 e.g., if you know slot foo is a bar, then you can just refer to it directly. 14:24:04 guys what is the state of affairs with iolib on windows? 14:24:26 could anybody explain me why does it exist at all? 14:24:32 doesn't work on windows 14:24:44 "it" what ? 14:25:00 pkhuong: like in Objective-C, the type info would be pointed by first word of a complex object, and invalidation would be detected part of the pointer turned into version tag (which would be masked for actual access) 14:25:10 yakov: Perhaps it wishes to inspire you. 14:25:50 yeah, sure. the thing is i don't see a reason to invent another wheel 14:26:10 yakov: it doesn't invent another one, IMHO 14:26:13 actually, i'm disappointed ;-) 'cause i've wanted to use 3b' clws which depends on it 14:26:19 what are you talking about ? 14:26:33 there is already usocket 14:26:42 why do we need another "socket layer" 14:26:44 etc. 14:26:48 yakov: I think I was the only person with both some will and idea regarding iolib on windows, but I really have it waaay bottom on my list 14:26:58 usocket is a totally different thing 14:27:09 p_l|backup, yeah like me.. :-( 14:27:17 fe[nl]ix, huh 14:27:20 and I started iolib before usocket existed 14:27:23 yakov: It's probably more about i/o multiplexing. 14:27:33 yakov: usocket simply bridges whatever is exported by implementation. IOlib actually exposes advanced interfaces like multiplexing etc. 14:27:38 oops, right. sorry. missed a bit. 14:27:46 a fine place to add async i/o,too 14:27:59 damn, p_l|backup we should do something with it on windows! :-D 14:28:28 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-132-189.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:47 yakov: right now, I don't even have a viable windows dev machine :P 14:29:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:29:19 p_l|backup, at least i have LW pro and windows7.. and no time.. 14:29:35 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oylygepukwgzzgnq] has joined #lisp 14:29:46 p_l|backup: that's not a lot of versions. 14:30:05 *yakov* in a hurry boostraping his startup thing 14:30:36 anyway, hlavaty is working on the windows port, you might want to help him 14:30:37 pkhuong: 256 versions should suffice? 14:31:07 Not quite up to 640k standards, but ... 14:31:44 fe[nl]ix, thx for a tip! 14:32:07 though i don't see him here right now.. 14:32:37 could someone please drop me his mail address? 14:32:37 Zhivago: the idea is that an object might be checked before rolling over 14:35:08 p_l|backup, yakov: http://src.knowledgetools.de/tomas/winapi/index.html 14:35:52 cool. 14:37:06 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has left #lisp 14:38:58 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:18 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:45:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oylygepukwgzzgnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:47:19 I suspect that this iolib port uses winsocks api 14:47:50 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.29.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 14:48:37 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 14:48:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041110.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Quit: Leo heads home] 14:50:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51:01 p_l|backup: yes, I'm not interested in using the (ill-functioning) POSIX layer 14:51:24 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:52:12 fe[nl]ix: there's a NT-native AIO system that handles afaik all I/O, including sockets 14:52:48 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:32 -!- pnq [~nick@AC813414.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:03 is the sockets implementation in windows radically different from berkeley? 14:55:59 no, but there are lots of subtle differences 14:56:16 *Fade* nods 14:56:22 zfx- [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has joined #lisp 14:56:50 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:57:23 urandom__ [~user@p548A2269.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:54 -!- zfx- is now known as zfx 14:57:54 -!- zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:57:54 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 15:01:18 Fade: Winsocks emulates berkeley sockets 15:01:30 including select() 15:02:33 is there an epoll equiv? 15:02:53 kind of 15:06:02 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:06:44 well, luckily, I don't think that's something I'm going to have to worry about any time soon. :) 15:07:42 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@223.212-8-68.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10:01 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:10:46 Fade: there's a Wait-on-condition-flag system 15:12:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:12:50 yakov_ [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-209.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 15:14:27 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-224.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:16:19 HG` [~HG@p5DC05665.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:39 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-209.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:25:57 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:29:47 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@216.239.45.130] has joined #lisp 15:30:00 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:31:08 -!- Ttm [~ripault@sao-paulo.lrde.epita.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:25 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 15:38:22 *Fade* nods 15:40:00 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-2-248.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:41:27 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:04 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-gnmbocnzyejywpci] has joined #lisp 15:45:24 kingsknighted [~adrian@c-174-52-163-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:40 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 15:46:14 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@216.239.45.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:47:18 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:47:50 -!- kingsknighted [~adrian@c-174-52-163-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:31 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:51:02 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:51:54 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:54:11 hi. lets say i want to reinitialize an array of structs, should i use with-slots, or just (setf (field1 s) val ....) for all the fields? 15:54:18 which is recommended performance wise? 15:54:31 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:54:54 -!- trigen [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:55:02 mcstar: you need to experiment with your compiler. accessor functions tend to be faster than named slot access, but it is really compiler dependent. 15:55:24 mcstar: i'd recommend that for starters, you use whatever you think reads best. 15:55:36 kingsknighted [~adrian@c-174-52-163-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:57 I prefer to think of the slots as an internal bus for classes to communicate into the future with. 15:55:58 mcstar: with-slots is frowned upon by some because slot names are considered implementation details, but you don't need to share that view. 15:56:10 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has joined #lisp 15:56:29 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 15:57:03 thx. im just looking for a way to efficiently reset ALL the fields of a struct, i thought with-slots would be faster, cause all the fields are of the same struct/class 15:57:18 i mean, it is guarantedd, that they are 15:57:35 -!- kingsknighted [~adrian@c-174-52-163-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:57:44 Perhaps you want a new struct, instead ... 15:57:55 i was considering it 15:58:07 maybe ill profile all 3 ways 15:58:49 cnty [~cnty@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 15:59:18 hello. for (method a b) being equal to (method b a) do I need to define two methods? (a and b are of different type) 16:00:05 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.161.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01:14 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 16:03:02 ever since i found out about minion, i wanted to say hi to him(since yesterday) 16:03:18 it isnt here? :S 16:05:55 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:02 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05665.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:06:08 cnty: Yes, but it can be something like (defmethod foo ((a x) (b y)) (foo b a)) 16:06:15 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-181-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:07:55 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:52 ok thank you 16:09:15 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 16:15:04 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:16:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:49 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-104-117.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:34 Vivitron` [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-gnmbocnzyejywpci] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:21:53 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-24-22-67-190.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:56 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:23:00 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-egzxrrkqbrhgtwcb] has joined #lisp 16:28:15 mcstar: with-slots doesn't work on structure (not conformingly at least). 16:28:24 mcstar: for structures, you need to use with-accessors. 16:29:01 ah, ok, i just tested on an example on sbcl 16:29:27 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-24-22-67-190.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:29:48 And notice that structure accessors may be heavily optimized. 16:30:05 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:30:12 so you recommend me to just stfm them 16:30:16 setf 16:30:33 It's the conforming way, yes. 16:30:50 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 16:30:59 you could always write a macro to make it terse. 16:31:39 btw, i saw a code, where the guy inlined +,-, such functions. is it recommended? i mean somehow i assumed the compiler decides this for itself, i should interfere 16:31:55 shouldnt* 16:32:23 mcstar: it is recommended to optimize using a profiler. 16:32:25 mcstar: i don't think that's a very common practice any more. 16:33:10 Xach: but can it have any performance impact? 16:34:36 so are those functions declared inline or not, where they are defined, basically thats what im asking 16:34:41 How do you inline +? 16:34:43 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:34:54 (declaim (inline +)) 16:35:07 AFAIK, this is ineffective. 16:35:18 You can do it, but the implementation can do whatever it wants. 16:35:19 Ah, I thought you meant faking it with macros. 16:35:39 no, i saw this in the code 16:35:48 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:52 Perhaps on his implementation it did something. 16:36:08 i think it was sbcl 16:36:36 ok, i will not do it then 16:37:51 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-qtornlkdstckkrzh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-egzxrrkqbrhgtwcb] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:39:14 zfx [~zfx@host86-145-64-98.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:14 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-145-64-98.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:39:14 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 16:40:16 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-vgxciurijuphbanu] has joined #lisp 16:41:01 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 16:41:01 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 16:41:01 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:41:03 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@216.239.45.130] has joined #lisp 16:43:49 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:10 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:44:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-vgxciurijuphbanu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:47:48 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@216.239.45.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:49:58 -!- chp [~chp@76.191.104.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:17 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.16] has joined #lisp 16:53:46 rlb3 [~user@2620:0:28a0:2004:72cd:60ff:fea8:e7de] has joined #lisp 16:55:42 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:57:15 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:57:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.16] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:58:37 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.16] has joined #lisp 16:58:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A4035A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:30 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:04:17 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-64-119-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:40 jdz [~jdz@host218-69-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:05:49 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 17:06:28 pnq [~nick@AC816B24.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:14 fper [2669c8fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.105.200.252] has joined #lisp 17:13:34 is there a text editor in common lisp? 17:13:43 There are several. 17:14:02 Portable Hemlock is the most accomplished and available. (You have it in ccl). 17:14:09 climacs is the most advanced. 17:14:17 Able is another one. 17:14:44 I am writting one emacs like in CL, and there's my sedit, structure editor Q&D proof of concept, to edit sexps. 17:14:57 i just looked into climacs, it seems it;s not dev-ed anymore? 17:15:03 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/sedit/ 17:15:10 I also have an ed(1) implemented in CL. 17:15:38 fper: the LispWorks built-in editor is an emacs-like written in CL. 17:15:40 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/ed 17:16:02 fper: climacs is not under active development as far as i can tell. i'm not sure by which metric it would be judged "most advanced." 17:16:06 fper: in conclusion, writing a text editor in Common Lisp is trivial. 17:16:25 writing an non-trivial text editor is non-trivial in anything 17:16:33 Xach: technologically. It uses CLIM, etc. 17:16:41 CLIM is advanced? 17:16:41 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for is advanced?. 17:16:46 Xach: isn't it? 17:16:47 I think climacs succumbed to scope creep 17:16:50 dlowe: sounds plausible 17:16:54 CLIM my ass 17:16:54 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for my ass. 17:17:07 pjb: In what regard? 17:17:10 haha, specbot. I love you 17:17:12 See, even specbot agrees. 17:17:18 Xach: your comments cut deep )): 17:17:49 beach likes to make the analogy with common lisp, that people make fun of CL and they also make fun of CLIM. 17:17:49 Climacs went from "emacs-like in common lisp" to "we're researching a new parsing technology for partial grammars" and then disappeared 17:17:53 (although they're true clim needs a haul; could be an over- one or one over the side, into the ocean) 17:18:01 except CL has been used to make stuff that people use 17:18:24 Xach: when did you mind-meld with Kenny? (: 17:19:04 Xach: seriously, though: http://ecocyc.org/ECOLI/NEW-IMAGE?type=ENZYME&object=G7843-MONOMER is generated using clim 17:19:32 I guess in general it would require a lot of context for me to suggest climacs or clim as examples of something in CL. 17:19:52 Maybe it's just mcclim? I don't think I've ever used or seen "real" clim. 17:19:55 Xach: lots of people use wigflip? 17:20:06 dlowe: FSVO "lots" 17:20:07 Jini [~jini@195.112.102.205] has joined #lisp 17:20:31 -!- Obfuscate` [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:21:08 Xach: "people" use wigflip 17:21:25 People "use" wigflip 17:21:56 -!- Jini [~jini@195.112.102.205] has left #lisp 17:21:57 Hemlock looks mature (at least used by cmucl)? 17:22:30 fper: it is mature, like mature in "mature porn" 17:22:36 haha 17:22:41 ahahaha H4ns ((: 17:22:46 also, hey, long time no see (: 17:22:47 *Xach* stifles a cough 17:22:57 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 17:23:15 fper: What do you want to do with or learn from an editor written in CL? Maybe that will help direct the answers more. 17:23:26 antifuchs: yeah, hey! i'm returning to common lisp by the way of linux sound driver debugging :) 17:23:51 that must be the weirdest trajectory yet (: 17:23:57 just poking around lisp apps 17:24:51 fper: There are a lot of libraries but not a lot of applications. I think many of the applications turn out to be internal, company-only, proprietary type things. 17:25:15 seangrove [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:20 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:25:33 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:39 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 17:25:41 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816B24.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:19 Hello, Dragons! 17:29:04 fper: Are you interested only in something that puts up a GUI? Or in anything that is structured as an end-user-oriented application? 17:29:15 I'm curious if anyone knows if there some technical reason why cl:sbit can not be viable argument in the car of PLACE argument to SBCL's sb-ext:compare-and-swap? 17:29:32 fper: "jwacs" is a CL program that is designed to be run from the command-line to transform special javascript code. It's called a little like a command-line compiler. 17:29:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30:37 fper: one could argue that the Shoutcast server in PCL is an "app". 17:31:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:19 Obfuscate` [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:28 mon_key: Think pkhuong or nyef would be the folks to ask. 17:33:15 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:50 what does the phrase "The list form of the function type-specifier can be used only for declaration and not for discrimination." mean in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_fn.htm ? 17:34:05 redline6561: yeah, or Nikodemus 17:34:34 (declare (type (...) name)) 17:35:38 acelent: DECLARE vs. TYPEP, I suppose 17:35:47 HG` [~HG@p5DC05665.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:06 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:00 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:37:36 antifuchs: right, thanks! 17:38:27 np (: 17:39:36 -!- rlb3 [~user@2620:0:28a0:2004:72cd:60ff:fea8:e7de] has left #lisp 17:40:15 -!- fper [2669c8fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.105.200.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:40:51 -!- jdz [~jdz@host218-69-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:34 FSVO 17:44:49 antifuchs: I guess you mean DECLARE vs. CHECK-TYPE. 17:47:17 pjb: can't typep be used for discrimination based on type? 17:47:24 or typecase? 17:47:46 antifuchs: you're right, for discrimination. I was thinking of compile-time vs. run-time type checking. 17:49:10 ok (: 18:00:06 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:07 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 18:04:16 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 18:06:09 ollkorrekt [~psych069@87.246.39.12] has joined #lisp 18:09:47 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-2-248.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:10:27 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 18:12:39 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:12:48 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-000-078.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:13 http://epr.adaptive.cs.unm.edu/about.html general-interest link, not lisp specific. I assume lisp would be a better candidate for this sort of thing than c. 18:14:20 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:15:27 hah, I recall reading a similar paper about binary-search debugging 18:15:37 you've come to the right place! lisp is better than c at anything 18:16:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-46-38.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: /me is sleeply.] 18:16:15 that seems like a fun way to fix bugs and lisp's s-expression structure would definitely let you use a different strategy (exchange symbols, change list structure) 18:16:34 and now that i've read the abstract, i think some people do that already, by hand 18:16:54 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:17:14 a similar technique really helped me figure out a certain bug that was stumping me a few days ago. 18:18:19 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:18:33 j_king: C is the worst candidate for any project (but implementing a unix kernel). 18:18:48 stassats: i hope not... seems it would take forever. ;) 18:18:49 And even, unix kernels have been implemented in Pascal and other higher level programming languages. 18:19:21 pnq [~nick@AC812509.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:57 pjb: and the unix kernel is the worst kind of kernels? 18:20:35 pjb: I dunno.. graphics programming seems to be one area where C/C++ tends to be handy as well. 18:20:45 and embedded real-time systems. 18:21:31 j_king: that's because no one said "fuck it, we'll do it in lisp!" 18:21:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 18:21:53 stassats: which has been my modus operandi in my spare-time hacking of late. 18:22:17 it does seem curious that there aren't more lisp projects out there. 18:22:48 j_king: with the only problem that Common Lisp is faster than C at graphic programming. See http://cliki.net/Performance 18:23:20 pjb: thanks will do. :) 18:23:27 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:23:29 By the way, my critic of FFI, applies to each function in C, not only to wrapper functions, since there's no such thing in C. 18:23:44 pjb: your humor is too subtle for me today. 18:24:09 pjb: Yes, but libtiff will convert my 60+MG bmps to a tiff. I've not been able to this with CL yet. 18:24:16 Xach: since C programmers don't use garbage collectors, they have to copy the data they pass to their libraries, etc. 18:24:29 One of the researchers behind that automatic program repare gave a keynote at the SPLASH conference co-located with the last ILC. 18:24:33 It was pretty interesting. 18:24:33 mon_key: that's because you've not programmed a tiff library in lisp yet. 18:24:40 mon_key: what problems did you encounter? 18:24:44 http://www.cs.unm.edu/~forrest/ 18:24:59 pjb: Still too subtle, sorry. 18:25:18 I blow the stack and/or retrospectiff/opticl has problems (i think) with adobe deflate 18:25:31 or maybe i'm doin it wrong 18:25:44 oh, i thought you were doing everything yourself 18:25:51 so, that's not technical problems of CL 18:26:17 gigamonkey: nice link. :) 18:26:54 Maybe, I'm pretty sure slyrus had to fall back on CLTL2 feature to get the performace he wanted from opticl... 18:27:32 mon_key: i can't comprehend that sentence 18:27:35 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:47 she has some cool research projects. :) 18:30:09 stassats: cltl2:variable-information opticl.lisp `%get-image-dimensions' 18:31:33 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:32:16 What do you recommend for Vim + Lisp integration? 18:32:21 -!- zqwell [~kafergots@FL1-119-241-244-73.chb.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:26 markskilbeck: emacs :P 18:33:38 markskilbeck: i think i've heard most about slimv lately (not sure if i got the name correct) 18:33:52 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:04 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:34:08 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:10 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:34:24 scharan [~scharan@97-90-195-82.dhcp.losa.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:37 markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-69-146.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:41 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-69-146.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:34:41 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:34:49 Oopsy. I x'd out. 18:35:11 I should see about irssi's logging cap. 18:35:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A4035A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:35:45 gigamonkey: awesome. 18:36:01 markskilbeck: You missed my snarky comment about using Emacs. You may find using a lisp with lineedit helpful 18:36:05 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:36:16 mon 18:36:26 markskilbeck: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 is the thing i've heard about lately 18:36:29 markskilbeck: Check out slimv. 18:37:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:14 mon_key: lucky me! ;) 18:37:26 Thanks, mon_key, Xach and redline6561. 18:37:30 +1 internet to you all. 18:38:53 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 18:39:10 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 18:39:36 markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-69-146.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:42 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-69-146.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:39:42 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:40:36 markskilbeck: you seem to have connection troubles without all those internets you gave away 18:40:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Client Quit] 18:40:55 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 18:41:13 I'm just too damn kind. 18:41:15 ghartshaw [~ghartshaw@pool-71-241-104-179.scr.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:49 stassats`: did the clarification help? 18:49:00 no 18:49:49 -!- ghartshaw [~ghartshaw@pool-71-241-104-179.scr.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:51:28 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-170.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 18:51:33 mon_key: I wonder if it would fare better with Mai's deflate library. 18:53:02 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:56:41 Xach: No idea. AFAICT The tiff stuff happens in retrospectiff and there are more than a few "not implemented yet" errors there. Also, it looks like development stalled around frobbing tiff "predictor" tags. 18:56:46 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 For portable RUN-SHELL-COMMAND, is ASDF:RUN-SHELL-COMMAND still the easiest way to go? 18:57:16 mon_key: Please try and report back 18:57:35 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812509.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:43 -!- Obfuscate` is now known as Obfuscate 19:03:29 SuChek [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has joined #lisp 19:05:35 -!- SuChek_ [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:06:31 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 19:06:38 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:07:49 yakov_ [yakov@95-27-241-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:09:31 nha [~prefect@190.118.36.80] has joined #lisp 19:09:59 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:25 tempire_ pasted "cl-who macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123512 19:10:31 halp! 19:10:59 Xach: I mis-spoke, the "not implemented yet"s in retrospectiff refer to lack of support for reading 16 bit strips in lzw/packbit. 19:11:09 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-000-078.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:11:25 trying to get the thumbnail-photos to expand as if (:img :src "/url") was inline 19:11:34 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-170.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:40 tempire_: see http://weitz.de/cl-who/#syntax under "A form which is neither a string nor a keyword..." 19:12:18 Retrospectiff does not define constants for ifd 259 tag values 32946 or 8 (e.g. deflate/Adobe-deflate) 19:12:43 tempire_: so if you want to do something like what you pasted, you should have thumbnail-photos contain another with-html-output, or similar. 19:12:53 tempire_: use (defun thumbnail-photos () (with-html-output (*standard-output*) (:img :src "/url"))) instead 19:13:34 Yeah, that works...but isn't the point of a macro to expand when called? 19:14:03 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:10 also, with-html-output in a separate place doesn't maintain the same indention 19:14:14 tempire_: You still have to follow the evaluation rules of the enclosing context. 19:14:15 yes, but that's not how cl-who works 19:14:47 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:14:50 ah, so it's due to the design of the with-html-output-to-string macro 19:15:12 -!- nha [~prefect@190.118.36.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:29 looopy [~looopy@64.134.176.233] has joined #lisp 19:20:51 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:51 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:22:41 loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 19:24:17 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:31:41 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:59 loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 19:38:32 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:49:24 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@189.17.97.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:52:26 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:53:34 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:54:32 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DC11E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:04 blandest_ [4f703c47@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.112.60.71] has joined #lisp 19:56:03 Penten`` [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 19:56:09 loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 19:56:30 carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.4] has joined #lisp 19:58:49 -!- Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:00:38 pnq [~nick@AC814681.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:42 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:04:18 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 20:05:20 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:46 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05665.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:11:27 -!- yakov_ [yakov@95-27-241-252.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:11:57 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-34.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 20:15:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-138-254.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:27 rosario [~rosario@p4FCDDFE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:28 -!- rosario [~rosario@p4FCDDFE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:15:28 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 20:16:09 yakov_ [yakov@95-27-220-178.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:16:35 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:17:09 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 20:17:09 loke [~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 20:19:05 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-34.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20:34 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A4035A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814681.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:39 nha [~prefect@190.118.36.80] has joined #lisp 20:24:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:27:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:27:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:28:05 Siliconjesus [~Jeremy@henle2.scs.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 20:31:08 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7559a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:19 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:40:18 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:42:58 rolando [~user@88.34.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:45:22 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:22 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DC11E2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:52:56 pnq [~nick@AC8119C6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:18 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:59:27 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:04:41 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:54 -!- cnty [~cnty@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 21:11:36 -!- blandest_ [4f703c47@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.112.60.71] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:13:23 I wish someone would port Perl POE to CL 21:14:56 POE? 21:17:01 http://poe.perl.org/ 21:17:31 is makes it easy to write e.g. server applications with a few lines of code 21:17:36 very powerful 21:18:02 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-248-33-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:18:11 make it so 21:18:11 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:32 I'd love to port it to Lisp, but I'm not good enough 21:18:44 fake it 'til ya make it. 21:18:49 lol 21:20:37 I wrote about a dozen of apps with POE 21:20:54 it's amazing 21:21:02 z0d: silly! It's by porting it lisp that you will become good enough! 21:21:22 z0d: If you don't do anything become you're not good enough, you will never become good enough for anything. 21:21:27 s/become/because/ 21:22:24 pjb: that's true, but POE involves acquiring other, non-Lisp related knowledge 21:22:32 with which I have no problems 21:22:40 but it would takes ages 21:23:23 -s 21:26:13 to be honest I'm not even familiar with the inner workings of POE 21:26:17 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:27 z0d: you're more familiar than any of us, since you seen to have been programming in perl and POE. We never touched perl with a ten feet long pole. 21:27:48 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:20 I started programming in Perl in 1998, because it was then "the web language" 21:28:36 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:28:44 Lisp came a bit later for me 21:28:51 z0d: who told you so? How wrong this is. 21:29:08 In 1998, ViaWeb already had been written in clisp and sold for billions. 21:29:12 Is there a way to speedup cl-gtk2 initialization? It takes a long time to load here. 21:29:19 yeah, but I didn't know viaweb back then 21:29:38 I mean I started programming in Perl because I wanted to do dynamic web sites 21:29:48 z0d: you've been misinformed. If I were you, I'd find those who told you to use perll and I'd beat them with a copy of the clhs. 21:30:02 no one told me to use Perl 21:30:13 Then beat yourself with a copy of the clhs. 21:30:19 don't cast stones at me, but I also like Perl <-: 21:30:53 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 21:31:34 No, we'll just cast you the hardcopies of clhs... 21:31:58 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:31:59 I was hoping for some precious Lisp Machine manuals 21:36:41 *gigamonkey* has a Lisp Machine manual but also has a soft spot in his heart for Perl. 21:38:00 does anyone know if there is an recent cl implementation of the *lisp syntax described in "The Connection Machine" by W. Daniel Hillis? 21:38:23 even a toy impl would be useful to me 21:38:35 google didn't shed much light on it :/ 21:39:06 Have you tried the one in the programming language preservation project? 21:39:15 *michelp* googles 21:39:25 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 21:39:38 That might not be the right name; I'll get it. 21:39:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A4035A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:08 pjb: your humor is killing me 21:40:14 ah http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/parallel/#Connection_Machine_Lisp_ 21:40:24 Bike, thanks! i'll follow that lead 21:40:34 Yeah, try the Franz one. 21:41:39 It's certainly not "recent", however. Looking at the readme, it's been tested on Lucid, Coral, Kyoto... 21:41:55 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:02 hah... yeah. really i just want some code to look at 21:42:14 other than the one chapter intro in the book 21:42:36 looking for a little more meat to chew on 21:42:47 michelp: you can probably find JP (the guy who wrote it); he has ocassionally posted to comp.lang.lisp. 21:42:52 Oh, wait, those readmes are from 1992, there's one from 2001. 21:43:08 alex``` [~alex@p549B33A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:11 anthracite [~user@brln-4dbc414e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:06 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:06 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has left #lisp 21:45:20 Bike: no, don't wait. That's the advantage with readmes from 1992 and 2001, things won't change between the time you download them and the time you read them. 21:46:20 hmm odd, that source for starsim doesn't mention the term 'xector' anywhere, but that's the key concept in the book 21:46:46 maybe this is some lower level piece, i don't know enough of the history to really know 21:47:21 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:22 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-24-22-67-190.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:08 It may not use the word, but the concept is there. 21:48:15 what i was hoping for was some code describing how the features show starting on page 33 work: http://books.google.com/books?id=xg_yaoC6CNEC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q=xector&f=false 21:48:25 Bike, thanks, i'll dig deeper 21:48:31 They may be called pvars? 21:48:38 deeper than a grep-find at least ;) 21:48:46 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 21:49:23 Yeah, check tutorial.ps. 21:50:28 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 21:50:33 whoops 21:50:43 Lesson seven looks to be it. Obviously it doesn't use the alpha/beta/dot/etc syntax of the thesis. 21:50:45 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:36 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441869.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:51:45 Bike, thanks! this looks like some good stuff :) 21:52:15 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-24-22-67-190.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:52:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:53:52 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:55:34 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:48 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:56:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:57:05 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633459.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:59:06 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:22 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 21:59:28 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:59 killerbo1 [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 22:00:00 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:00:55 -!- killerbo1 [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:01:03 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 22:02:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:02:24 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:36 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:05:34 hba [~hba@187.171.206.52] has joined #lisp 22:05:45 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@216.239.45.130] has joined #lisp 22:05:57 hey I have some trouble using slime. When I enter any invalid expression in the repl emacs stops working correctly. I can't switch buffer, I can't quit, I just get "Error in post-command-hook: (wrong-type-argument characterp nil)" in the minibuffer. anyone know about this error? It's os x, emacs 23.2 and ccl 22:06:47 danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has joined #lisp 22:07:18 someone described my exact problem in more detail here http://bit.ly/of1xv9 but there is no solution mentioned :( 22:08:12 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 22:11:34 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:12:21 anthracite: where did you get your slime? 22:12:33 it's the cvs version 22:12:38 *Xach* scratches head 22:12:58 Does anyone have experience using cl-xmpp? 22:13:06 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:13:14 Any experience - I need working code example. 22:14:30 -!- yakov_ [yakov@95-27-220-178.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:14:41 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8119C6.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:27 this pvars thing is so ugly compared to the xector syntax 22:15:35 pnq [~nick@ACA38351.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:52 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:18:45 Xach: I noticed that with every invalid expression entered in the repl another 0 byte *sldb ccl/12* buffer shows in ibuffer. When I kill all of them I can at least quit emacs the normal way, but it doesn't behave as expected 22:19:06 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:28 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:57 -!- alex``` [~alex@p549B33A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:31:55 -!- wivlaro [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has left #lisp 22:34:24 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:35:37 lispm [~lispm@g224045105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:37:56 michelp: *lisp was a bridge to CMlisp 22:38:34 the paper by hillis and steele has a relatively complete implementation embedded in it, modulo some edge issues. 22:39:11 there's also some work and a lecture by preston brigs on xappings 22:39:20 s/brigs/briggs 22:42:17 -!- looopy [~looopy@64.134.176.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:49 fade i did find preston's paper online, but no implementation 22:44:15 it was enlightening though, he has some good examples, like doing a conway life cycle in parallel 22:45:55 i'm know i'm digging around into some pretty old dirt but this concept has been fascinating me lately. also i've been using 0mq a lot which seems like it would be a perfect tool for emulating the message passing underneath 22:46:03 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2269.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:35 Hm, didn't know about Hillis & Steele's. It has two metacircular interpreters, it says. 22:47:16 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:47 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:00 Penten``` [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 22:50:25 -!- Penten`` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:51:01 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:53:59 Fade, are you referring to the paper "Data Parallel Algorithms?" 22:55:22 ah wait, i see there are some other papers from them 22:57:18 that I don't have access to :( 22:58:16 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224045105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:59:39 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-174.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:19 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 23:00:46 -!- Siliconjesus [~Jeremy@henle2.scs.uiuc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:27 meh, fifteen bucks ain't so bad 23:01:43 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:15 The paper I found is a free download. I don't know that it's what Fade is referring to, however. 23:03:40 Bike can you send me the link? 23:04:26 gz [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:56 -!- danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has quit [Quit: Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung.] 23:06:13 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.108.5413&rep=rep1&type=pdf 23:07:01 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA38351.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:57 (@michelp) 23:08:21 it might be free for you, but it's asking me for $15 23:09:00 which isn't a problem, i was going to order it later tonight. right now my boss is giving me a bit of stink-eye for not writing python right now :) 23:09:32 That's odd. Sorry. 23:09:34 the link you sent redirects me to https://portal.acm.org/purchase.cfm?id=163361&CFID=36911423&CFTOKEN=14602277 23:10:08 yeah it's no sweat, knowledge is worth the cost of a couple beers :) 23:12:31 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:15:41 chu [~mathew.ba@130.56.92.101] has joined #lisp 23:16:33 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:21:05 -!- anthracite [~user@brln-4dbc414e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:23 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:22:30 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 23:24:04 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:30 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:26:50 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:56 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:31:49 -!- SuChek [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has left #lisp 23:34:29 Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-254-64.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:37:46 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:38:22 lars_ [cfed4bef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.207.237.75.239] has joined #lisp 23:38:43 how to start hemlock in sbcl? 23:38:54 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-132-189.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:39:01 (hemlock:hemlock) IIRC. 23:39:48 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:24 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:01 it says package "HEMLOCK" not found 23:42:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:23 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:30 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:43:11 lars_: Did you load hemlock? 23:43:14 (list-all-packages) 23:44:10 pjb: listed, no hemlock found... 23:44:21 it's sbcl in archlinux. 23:44:39 There. Why do you ask how to start hemlock, if you don't load it? 23:44:57 lars_: you need to load it first. 23:44:59 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:06 how to load it? 23:45:10 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:45:12 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:45:22 lars_: do you have quicklisp installed? if so, (ql:quickload "hemlock") will load it. 23:45:43 if not, get quicklisp from www.quicklisp.org first. pretty easy to set up. 23:46:02 Xach: i had it but deld. i'll download it again 23:48:45 -!- scharan [~scharan@97-90-195-82.dhcp.losa.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 23:49:20 yeah loading hemlock now 23:50:05 just want to try something in common lisp, other than common lisp implementation it self 23:50:06 ympbyc [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:50:22 lars_: hunchentoot is another fun thing 23:50:33 web server? 23:50:43 yes. 23:51:11 oh i prefer apps 23:51:48 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.29.189] has joined #lisp 23:52:28 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-25-37.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:46 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:47 Not a lot of apps to check out. 23:53:36 you can try out jofrli, my hunchentoot-based url shortener (; 23:53:48 but I'm not sure it'll be of much use /-: 23:54:46 -!- benny [~benny@87.122.19.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:05 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:16 there are lots of lisp libraries that you can very easily assemble into apps yourself, but not many stand-alone apps 23:56:23 at least, published ones (: 23:57:15 i just loaded hemlock, and it set up cl-user::hemlock. 23:57:24 Not sure if it just sets it in the current value of *package* or what. 23:57:57 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.4] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:58:00 antifuchs: i was browsing clozure.com a few days ago and it mentions the forthcoming clappa (or maybe it was clornucopia) 23:58:22 then how to start hemlock? 23:59:18 lars_: (hemlock) might do the trick.