00:03:06 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has joined #lisp 00:06:21 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:10:35 pnq [~nick@172.162.54.59] has joined #lisp 00:11:21 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c20c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:14:18 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:16:15 -!- alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:20 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:17:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:17:51 alfa_y_omega [~alfa_y_om@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 00:17:59 foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.120.32] has joined #lisp 00:19:57 benny [~benny@i577A8913.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:20:44 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:20:50 cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has joined #lisp 00:20:51 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has quit [Changing host] 00:20:51 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 00:22:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:22:54 bohanlon [~bohanlon@pool-108-20-68-105.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:45 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:24:58 zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has joined #lisp 00:27:41 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:10 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:44:18 cpc26` [cpc26@pilot.trilug.org] has joined #lisp 00:46:26 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has joined #lisp 00:46:48 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:52 yroeht_ [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 00:47:03 kjellkt_ [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:17 crypto_ [~z0d@artifact.hu] has joined #lisp 00:47:26 Zephyrus__ [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 00:47:36 quasisane_ [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:43 Xach_ [~xach@cpe-76-178-243-38.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:47 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:49:27 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:29 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:47 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:48 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 00:51:52 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:52 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:52 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:52 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:52 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:52 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:52 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:52 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:53 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:53 -!- cpc26 [cpc26@pilot.trilug.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:53 -!- kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:51:53 -!- micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:54:25 redline6561: (ql-dist:uninstall (ql-dist:release "release-name")) 00:54:35 -!- Xach_ is now known as Xach 00:56:57 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:49 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:10 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:04:38 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 01:04:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 01:04:44 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:12:55 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:04 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 01:16:59 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:42 zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has joined #lisp 01:27:28 why does this fail in such an an ugly manner (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (print sb-thread:*current-thread* *standard-output*)) :name "bubba") 01:28:22 mon_key, (setq *print-circle* t) 01:28:32 it should be fixed in newer versions 01:28:32 seriously? 01:28:34 yes 01:28:39 though i haven't checked :P 01:32:21 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:33:33 zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has joined #lisp 01:34:21 wierdo: 1.0.49.65 built from git appears to works OK independent of whether *print-circle* is T 01:35:32 cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has joined #lisp 01:35:32 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.55.61] has quit [Changing host] 01:35:32 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:35:45 mon_key, which was the version that exhibited an error? 01:35:56 s/an/the 01:35:59 1.0.47 01:36:01 ok 01:38:08 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 01:38:23 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 01:38:45 also on 1.0.47 the (setq *print-circle* t) has to occur in the _new_ thread. Or at least setting it from "initial thread" and then sb-thread:make-thread'ing doesn't seem to help. 01:44:34 strange 01:45:01 yes, 01:46:24 stranger is what happens after unsetting *print-circle* in "initial thread" and then evaluating the same make-thread'ed form above again 01:47:20 weirdo: do you know if the CONTROL-STACK-EXHAUSTED-ERROR is local to the thread it is signalled from? 01:47:39 no :( 01:47:45 but it's bad if it ever happens 01:48:49 Well, after recieving that message a couple of time and _not_ dropping into the ldb i was finally able to find my way to the LDB :) 01:49:50 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.233.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:51:46 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.81] has joined #lisp 01:54:54 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 01:57:30 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:58:26 phao [phao@189.119.50.105] has joined #lisp 01:59:02 I never programmed in common lisp, but I am a scheme programmer. The thing is that I wanna read On Lisp, and I was wondering if I would be able to understand it. 01:59:04 any clues? 01:59:45 phao: probably. 02:00:33 it is very low-cost to try it and see 02:00:52 Yeah 02:01:16 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.209.60] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:03:25 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:07:29 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:24 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483BB7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:33 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:11:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:11:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:54 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:11:54 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AD39.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:15:30 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.81] has joined #lisp 02:16:17 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:37 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:34:59 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:35:00 -!- Intensity [aAERzbcdXs@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:40:01 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@46.158.124.182] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:41:35 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:03 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:33 Does loop have a way to bind multiple values? 02:48:00 analogous to 'for ... on some-list' 02:48:40 er 02:48:41 not on 02:48:59 nvm 02:49:34 phao: you could read the most advised CL books, and make some "report" or http://cliki.net/ page describing your learning experience as a schemer. 02:50:24 Ralith not sure, but you can get a list with (multiple-value-list .. ) 02:50:29 yeah 02:56:49 is there something like sequencep? 02:57:17 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:23 (defun sequencep (x) (typep x 'sequence)) 02:57:44 thanks 02:58:28 Notice that (sequencep x) doesn't imply (or (vectorp x) (listp x)). 02:58:42 I know 02:59:42 actually conses would fall under listp. what were you hinting at? 02:59:50 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:59:58 Implementations can provide additionnal sequence types. 03:00:01 SBCL does. 03:00:28 ok that's fine 03:00:50 el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8C829.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:44 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 03:03:50 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5790FDD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:07:19 -!- pnq [~nick@172.162.54.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:08:28 -!- Soulman [~knute@205.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 03:09:34 pnq [~nick@AC8118EB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:02 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-58-31-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:05 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:15:27 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-240.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:19 Intensity [1x1OYOPeDn@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 03:29:07 -!- jfletcher [~quassel@95.149.202.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:29:45 phao_ [phao@187.80.72.105] has joined #lisp 03:29:48 -!- phao [phao@189.119.50.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:36:24 -!- ympbyc [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:37:33 pjb 03:37:34 sounds goo 03:37:44 good 03:38:28 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:40:32 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:32 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:40:32 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 03:40:59 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:10 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Client Quit] 03:44:55 scrimohsin [~hdfg@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 03:46:37 -!- Simul [~user@97-93-224-156.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:50:01 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53:52 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8118EB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:55:19 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:49 -!- scrimohsin [~hdfg@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:13:40 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@221.237.126.193] has joined #lisp 04:22:55 Hundenn [~Hunden@e180099238.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:23:45 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:24:09 Obfuscate` [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:43 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:26:27 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180103099.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:26:39 scrimohsin [~hdfg@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 04:28:07 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@130.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:30:20 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:30:39 -!- scrimohsin [~hdfg@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Client Quit] 04:33:12 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:33:23 ympbyc1 [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:39:53 scrimohsin [~hdfg@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 04:44:03 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:24 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.81] has joined #lisp 04:52:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: [insert quit message]] 04:53:58 mobydick [~textual@124-171-79-28.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:01:56 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:56 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:01:56 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 05:08:48 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:10:33 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:13:47 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@221.237.126.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:14 Deathaholic [~Mococa@177.16.237.130] has joined #lisp 05:15:47 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:12 -!- Deathaholic is now known as Mococa 05:17:18 -!- bandu [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: I need my meds... >.<] 05:23:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:30 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:25:55 ch077179 [~ch077179@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 05:33:38 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:34:59 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.237.130] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 05:36:12 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:37:18 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:38:07 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:29 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:47:57 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:47:57 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:47:57 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 05:49:41 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:30 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has joined #lisp 05:51:37 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:21 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:05:17 -!- mobydick [~textual@124-171-79-28.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:11:42 phao_: you just want to learn about macros or is there more to it? 06:15:46 littlebobby, macros 06:15:50 pretty must just macros 06:16:00 but I am interested in what those CL books have to say 06:16:19 phao_: yeah, then on lisp and maybe let over lambda. the latter isn't free though 06:16:26 people that program in CL, old timers, (I may be wrong here), but they seem to have a lot of experience, and osme of that is in those books 06:17:01 I use chicken/scheme 06:17:05 and it allows for CL like macros 06:18:28 phao_: I've recently started learning lisp with practical common lisp (also free) and now I'm reading "paradigms of artificial intellingence programming" on the side. the first one is an introduction, probably less interesting to you, the latter... that's where you probably should check the table of contents. maybe you'll find something interesting there 06:19:09 phao_: http://www.amazon.com/Paradigms-Artificial-Intelligence-Programming-Studies/dp/1558601910/ 06:19:27 phao_: If you're coming from Scheme, you may also find the OOP system and its implementation interesting. 06:19:52 you mean CLOS? 06:20:23 phao_: also, this book maybe (check TOC): http://www.amazon.com/Lisp-Small-Pieces-Christian-Queinnec/dp/0521545668/ 06:20:53 Yes. 06:21:13 Lisp in Small Pieces is good too, and not really CL-specific either. 06:21:47 phao_: this is the over macro book's TOC: http://letoverlambda.com/index.cl/toc ;-) 06:22:47 well 06:22:54 it wll 06:23:02 it will take some time for me to read all that, if I do 06:23:47 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:47 Much of LoL is available onlne 06:23:49 online 06:24:21 indeed, I'd start with on lisp though 06:24:28 yeah 06:24:40 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:24:42 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 06:24:42 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:25:04 I find the density of useful information in all those lisp books refreshing 06:25:19 yeah 06:25:23 that is an *up* 06:25:35 I'm kinda tired of 1400pgs books with "nothing" in them 06:25:38 like deitel ones 06:25:44 those CORE 06:25:53 and so many other 06:25:54 others* 06:26:10 I've seem a 700pgs HTML book 06:26:15 can you believe that/ 06:26:21 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:37 I've read a 700 page HTML book. Wasn't very good, either. 06:26:49 -!- mtd_ is now known as mtd 06:26:52 for dummies; in 21 days, yadda yadda :-) in stark contrast to that is PAIP which takes you from a novice or intermediate level up to the skies, at least the TOC indicates that, but also it's rave reviews 06:27:33 a good thing about well written book is that they tend to teach a lot of stuff implicitly 06:27:55 I've learned basics of writing algorithms by reading K&R, which is a C book 06:28:30 anyway... thx for info 06:28:36 gonna read now 06:28:38 fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 06:29:17 phao_: I'll join you with the reading, because so much it is still... :-) 06:29:26 yeah 06:29:29 know how it is like 06:29:53 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 06:30:56 -!- phao_ [phao@187.80.72.105] has quit [Quit: Fui embora] 06:46:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A40947.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:54:48 mudshark [~dvgb@c114-77-112-238.chirn2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:55:24 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 06:55:27 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@182.149.91.171] has joined #lisp 06:57:03 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:57:12 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@182.149.91.171] has left #lisp 07:01:27 -!- mudshark [~dvgb@c114-77-112-238.chirn2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:06:45 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:10:24 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has joined #lisp 07:11:57 mudshark [~dvgb@c114-77-112-238.chirn2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:20:13 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-78-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:14 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-78-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:20:14 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:24:01 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:24:01 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:26:05 -!- mishoo_ is now known as mishoo 07:27:12 anyone knows a PDF version of "lisp in small pieces"? 07:28:03 yes, illegally 07:29:09 heh. I wouldn't mind paying for an ebook, but I just can't find it :-\ 07:30:41 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:46 Does cl-gtk see much development these days? Looks pretty good, very promising, but no stable release for a few years, no sure if it's still being actively developed... 07:32:29 Actually, the version on github saw something pushed April, so that's promising 07:32:37 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.82] has joined #lisp 07:36:47 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37:27 delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has joined #lisp 07:37:27 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:48 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-81-36.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:43:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-118-167.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:48:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-104-117.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:52:22 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:53:09 -!- mudshark [~dvgb@c114-77-112-238.chirn2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:55:24 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:44 varjag [~eugene@21.59.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 08:00:44 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:01 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 08:03:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:11 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08:45 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:09:46 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-183-79.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:11:57 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326C12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:28 Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:41 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B744.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18:58 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:18:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A40947.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:19:04 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-78-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:04 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-78-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:19:04 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:30:00 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:31:53 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.240] has joined #lisp 08:34:54 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@182.149.91.171] has joined #lisp 08:38:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:14 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.82] has joined #lisp 08:53:42 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:53:54 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:55:52 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f7d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:29 val132 [~val@host86-14-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:00:33 hi 09:00:40 describe isn't a generic function? 09:01:07 See describe-object. 09:02:29 implementation dependent 09:02:40 ^^ 09:03:07 mm 09:03:18 but it talks about "The generic function describe-object prints a description of object to a stream" 09:03:32 so describ IS a generic function, so why can't i specialize it? 09:03:59 um 09:04:06 can you read the sentence you just quoted? 09:04:24 Literacy is an essential skill. 09:05:02 :-\ 09:05:23 do you talk about describe and describe-object? 09:05:52 Describe is a function. Describe-Object is a generic function. Sometimes Describe calls Describe-Object. 09:06:12 so describe itself is not a generic functino? 09:06:14 *on? 09:07:04 What does the documentation say? 09:07:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:21 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 09:09:38 function. 09:09:52 And there you have it. 09:11:03 awesome. 09:11:06 : ) 09:11:46 another question, when i implicity call print-object 09:11:47 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:11:49 ok 09:11:58 first i will use the documentation ;) 09:14:57 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-183-79.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:16:15 -!- val132 [~val@host86-14-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:19:57 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-176-1.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:22:37 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 09:26:54 -!- kytibe [~kytibe@212.174.109.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:10 gaah 09:30:19 sbcl .49 is refusing to give me backtraces 09:30:20 even on debug 3 09:30:36 (often) 09:32:33 Ralith: you only have something like (foreign-call: #...) ? (I've the same problem) 09:32:44 I don't know what that is supposed to be 09:32:58 I am using a CFFI'd lib, but these aren't callbacks from it or anything 09:36:07 hm nvm. 09:48:10 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has joined #lisp 09:49:52 wtf, when i start maxima now, it tells me /root/.cache cannot be created.... 09:49:58 i run it as user tho 09:50:02 and it was running before 09:50:19 and sbcl starts as normal too 09:54:24 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:52 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:04 ktbe [~ktbe@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 10:04:07 jef_ [~quassel@95.149.202.230] has joined #lisp 10:04:07 -!- jef_ [~quassel@95.149.202.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:08 lanthan [~ze@p54B7DA1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:12 -!- ktbe [~ktbe@212.174.109.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:54 homie, sounds like for some reason maxima is confused on where to put its stuff. 10:09:31 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:12:01 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:16:22 argh 10:16:32 why is passing (vector 0 0) to a C function making ccl crap itself 10:22:55 (arg type carray) 10:26:11 "Invalid memory operation?" 10:28:42 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7DA1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:33:28 what's wrong with: 10:33:35 (CFFI:FOREIGN-ALLOC :pointer :INITIAL-CONTENTS #(0 0) :COUNT 2) 10:33:43 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.29.189] has joined #lisp 10:36:50 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.155.153] has joined #lisp 10:37:37 ktbe [~ktbe@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 10:38:32 ahah, bug in the llvm wrapper. 10:38:48 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 10:40:46 or not! 10:41:27 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.155.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:52 lanthan [~ze@p54B7D90D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:43 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 10:45:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:01 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.29.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 10:45:14 -!- mishoo_ is now known as mishoo 10:52:39 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 10:53:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:37 H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC962A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:11 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:02:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:04:22 -!- H4ns` [~user@p4FFC9DF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:09:26 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 11:09:48 -!- ktbe [~ktbe@212.174.109.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:45 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:10:53 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:20:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-54-189.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:20:31 arquebus [~arquebus@189.221.12.73.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 11:23:28 abeaumont [~abeaumont@155.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 11:28:42 ch077179 [~ch077179@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 11:29:05 leyyer_su [~user@118.113.50.153] has joined #lisp 11:29:40 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Changing host] 11:29:41 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 11:30:10 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f266.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:56 zfx [~zfx@host86-145-64-98.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:34:56 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-145-64-98.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:34:56 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 11:40:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:40:16 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:40:24 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:43:43 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:46:13 Is there an alternative apt-get repo with new sbcl releases for Debian/Ubuntu? The distro-provided 1.0.45 has the bug preventing it from running clx. 11:48:58 like a ppa? I don't think so. 11:49:39 Hm... Will run a newer release unpackaged into a directory then. Thx. 11:50:25 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:47 antoszka: what almost everybody does is install the newest version. Ends up in /usr/local/ .. 11:51:07 Yeah, I'll do that. 11:52:17 hmm, squeeze ships 1.0.40, not 1.0.45 11:52:54 and i would say that is surprisingly up to date for debian. 11:53:07 sid and wheezy both have 1.0.50 11:53:24 i am shocked. :-) 11:53:56 i have 1.0.49 11:55:31 Actually, as otwieracz suggested I just downloaded the debian unstable .deb for 1.0.50, dpkg -i'd it, and that's it, works. 11:55:54 Easier than fiddling with manual installation into /usr/local/ 11:56:16 -!- arquebus [~arquebus@189.221.12.73.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:57 -!- bohanlon [~bohanlon@pool-108-20-68-105.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: So long!] 12:03:45 pnq [~nick@AC81400D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.240] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 12:07:29 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.29.189] has joined #lisp 12:09:56 EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 12:10:55 Soulman [~knute@205.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:16 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81400D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:13:48 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:14:10 antoszka, fine enough, though it should be noted that compiling sbcl isn't really difficult 12:15:05 not difficult if you already have sbcl 12:15:26 pnq [~nick@AC81400D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:19 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 12:17:33 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f7d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:48 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:19:07 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:38 fighterlyt [~liuyuntan@124.165.35.45] has joined #lisp 12:25:23 -!- fighterlyt [~liuyuntan@124.165.35.45] has left #lisp 12:30:14 -!- varjag [~eugene@21.59.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:30:43 -!- crypto_ is now known as z0d 12:30:46 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@155.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:52 -!- z0d [~z0d@artifact.hu] has quit [Changing host] 12:30:52 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 12:34:06 kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.70] has joined #lisp 12:34:06 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.161.70] has quit [Changing host] 12:34:06 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:35:08 -!- CrazyEddy [~shachle@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:33 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@182.149.91.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:53 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@182.149.91.171] has joined #lisp 12:38:58 hi 12:40:46 hellooo 12:45:20 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:46:21 leo2007 [~leo@th041097.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 12:47:44 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:10 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-40-90.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:48:19 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:52:40 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 12:56:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:57:11 -!- Krystof_ [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:16 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:59:38 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@85.139.250.201] has joined #lisp 12:59:45 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has joined #lisp 13:02:09 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@182.149.91.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:02:09 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.120.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:36 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 13:12:18 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-032-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:17:07 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f7d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:24 urandom__ [~user@p548A4295.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:34:20 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:34:26 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:47 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:43:28 do lisp compilers optimize the concatenation of two lists in such a way as to avoid calling 'last' on the first list? for example in (nconc (loop for x in foo collect blah) list2) it is possible to keep the tail of the first expression and modify it at the end to point to list2 13:44:53 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81400D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:46:07 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 13:48:34 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 13:49:18 abeaumont [~abeaumont@130.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 13:53:40 jewel: probably not. The problem is that most lisp compilers have threads, so they will rarely be able to infer that the last cell of a list doesn't change. 13:54:15 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:54:46 jfletcher [~jef@5ac8b031.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:54 is there an idiom for doing this when the programmer knows it's safe? 13:54:54 jewel: in the specific case you give, it might be possible. 13:55:05 -!- jfletcher [~jef@5ac8b031.bb.sky.com] has left #lisp 13:55:33 it's possible that some compilers do it, or just possible? 13:55:46 It would depend on whether they opencode nconc. 13:59:12 You'd get better chances (conformingly wise) if you wrote your own nconc, which would allow you to write a compiler macro in which you could opencode it, and have a chance of letting the compiler try to extract the last cell from the innards of the loop. 13:59:27 Then, perhaps you'd have to write your own loop macro to to ease that... 14:05:43 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:05 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 14:08:21 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:11:21 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:24:07 Hi, I cant remember the name of the function wich returns something like (defun foo (fun) #'(lambda (&rest args) (not (apply fun args)))) :/ 14:24:23 complement 14:24:52 of course thanks fe[nl]ix 14:31:17 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:32:23 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:37:14 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:16 -!- ympbyc1 [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:41:33 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:44:45 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-150-115.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:45:03 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:48:12 fsntation [~fsntation@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 14:48:55 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-150-115.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:57 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 15:00:04 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:38 garslo [~user@99-44-180-131.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-190-236.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:05:58 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:09 ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:26 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@85.139.250.201] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:00 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:16:01 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:19:41 carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.81] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 -!- leyyer_su [~user@118.113.50.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:22:03 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:35 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 hi all 15:23:53 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:25:39 hi 15:27:20 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:29:26 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:29:26 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 15:31:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:31:38 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:40 am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has joined #lisp 15:35:17 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:28 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:34 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:37:56 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ArchMonkey] 15:39:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:20 hi, do we have any DSL interpreters on board, like Javascript or Scheme? 15:41:47 maybe somebody automatically translated Rhino from Java? 15:41:57 (semi automatically) 15:42:04 pnq [~nick@AC81F407.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:07 Soulman1 [~knute@198.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:48 -!- Soulman [~knute@205.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:44:42 puchacz: schemes written in CL you mean? There's the one from PAIP at the very least. 15:44:54 puchacz: no. That's something that is impossible to write in Common Lisp. 15:45:16 pjb: huh? 15:46:02 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-31-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:05 prxq: ah, yeah, I roughly remember there might be one in PAIP, cheers 15:46:21 chapter: "uncommon lisp" or so 15:47:02 pjb: I am not pulling anybody's leg, you can switch sarcastic mode off 15:47:19 I don't have it here, but yes. It has full continuations iirc. 15:47:23 prxq: do we have any iteration control structure on board, like loop or do? 15:47:32 puchacz: you are. 15:47:50 pjb: maybe you know better.... 15:48:16 Yes, like using google or http://cliki.net 15:48:25 I found none 15:48:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-31-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:48:41 What I've said. 15:48:45 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-58-31-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 15:49:36 hi 15:49:37 pjb: hi 15:50:04 Hi! 15:51:13 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:51:41 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f7d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:02 -!- garslo [~user@99-44-180-131.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:52 I learned about defcenum yesterday in this channel and it seemed like a good idea to use it for defining C constants, until I had to combine several of them with logior that is. (logior :some-flag :other-flag) obviously doesn't work. how to handle that? (logior (foreign-enum-value 'enum-type :some-flag) (foreign-enum-value 'enum-type :other-flag)) seems to be the only way to do it without 15:52:52 wrapping it in a function 15:53:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:53:42 kennyd: usually, by making a list of them. 15:54:18 kennyd: what's wrong with wrapping that into a function? 15:54:24 you mean passing (list :some-flag :other-flag) directly to a C function works? 15:54:36 that would be surprising 15:55:21 prxq it's still kind of ugly compared to just using constants as you have to mention enum type. (combine-flags 'enum-type :some-flag :other-flag) vs (logior +some-flag+ +other-flag+) 15:55:23 kennyd: I'd not expect it to work, but that's the lispy way to build a set of flags. 15:56:01 kennyd: ffi is dirty. Don't do it. Better write the library in Lisp. 15:56:17 pjb: are you having a bad day? 15:56:37 prxq: yes, but my opinion on ffi is made before. 15:57:28 kennyd: you can defconstant the keywords too, btw. 15:57:30 There's too much code to add to nicely wrap over a FFI library. It would be easier to rewrite it in lisp directly. And **safer**! 15:57:51 pjb: easier? Like rewriting gtk in lisp? 15:57:53 what if it's an OS api, rewrite the OS in lisp? :) 15:58:22 Yes. 15:58:39 In the end, it'll be better. 15:58:58 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Foo.] 15:58:59 i'm sure that's a fun position to take. 15:59:30 Further more, with FFI you get less efficient code that a lisp rewrite, because you';re constantly copying and converting data. 16:00:11 pjb: you are hurting the feelings of all the people that claim FFI is beautiful. 16:00:31 pjb, but certain impls have zero-copy FFI 16:00:33 like SBCL 16:00:40 that is, for vectors at least 16:01:20 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81F407.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:02:34 Strings, fixnums, integers, etc. 16:02:48 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-31-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:01 Globally, FFI is bad, and if you can avoid it it's much better for everybody, includning kitten. 16:03:08 I've found using C code from ffi is often nicer than using the real thing. 16:03:38 For example, if you start with FFI, you'll spend ten times the debugging time, with each crash in the C code, and restart of the lisp image, reloading your app, etc. 16:04:36 Not counting of course that 99% of the C (or worse C++) libraries are not designed to be called from a FFI, so they have dumb APIs. 16:07:39 nothing is designed to be called by ffi 16:07:51 lol 16:07:52 There are a few libraries that are easier. 16:07:59 ok 16:12:28 you need to wrap carefully, which might be non-trivial. For many things, it still takes less time than reinventing the wheel. 16:12:51 often enough, however, pjb is right and you can rewrite the thing with less hassle. 16:13:46 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:15:15 yes but then again, if you would have to rewrite everthing.... 16:15:19 every* 16:15:28 -!- ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:25 homie: rewrite a couple of libraries. Then you will start to see some pattern, and you'll be able to write a C to lisp translator. 16:16:50 (Or rather, a C back to algorithm, then translate algorithm to lisp). 16:20:46 yay for modulo arithmetic! 16:20:50 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:21:34 machine-translating c with all its idiosyncracies programmatically would be a pretty daunting task 16:21:42 s/programmatically// 16:22:10 Nah. 16:22:21 C has very few idiosyncracies. 16:22:32 -!- quasisane_ [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:22:34 It has a lot of undefined behaviour -- but that's easy to translate. 16:22:40 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:44 weirdo: it's time to advance AI a little. 16:23:12 Writing C compilers is actually very easy -- it was one of C's design points. 16:23:30 Writing optimizing C compilers, on the other hand ... 16:23:43 But translating from language to higher level language (generating maintainable sources) is not easy. 16:23:48 Joreji [~thomas@83-096.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:24:04 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.150] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:14 "higher level" is propaganda. 16:25:10 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:25:29 My definition of higher level is you can write the same thing in less code. When I rewrite my C libraries into Common Lisp, I was left with 1/30 the code. For me, CL is that much higher level than C. 16:25:45 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-48-130.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:25:58 hi 16:26:05 Or maybe you're just a lousy C programmer. 16:26:12 Like I said, propaganda. :) 16:27:03 i have a clos question: when initialize-instance runs, i cannot access the slots of the class, when they were initialiuzed with :initarg 16:27:20 mcstar, :after 16:27:41 shall i write make-instance :after? 16:27:47 or :around, yes 16:28:09 :after should make more sense 16:28:17 ill try thanks 16:28:49 also, doing a normal method prevents slot initialization from running ta all 16:28:56 you could technically call call-next-method, though 16:29:02 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:02 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-104-117.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:05 lets say, i have two classes, one is the superclass of the other, i want make-instance to run for both of them. in the class's make-instance, i want to refer to slots, that were initialized during the call to the superclass's make-instance 16:31:13 is it ok to use :after for both of them? 16:31:22 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 16:33:27 (call-next-method) 16:34:41 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:51 ok, so the superclass's make-instance should be :around, the class's m-i normal, and i add (call-next-method) to the super-class's m-i's end 16:35:55 is that right? 16:36:10 Yes. 16:36:20 thx again 16:38:17 mcstar: http://pupeno.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/common-lisp-method-composition.png 16:38:27 ooooh, SBCL 1.0.50 :D 16:39:01 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 16:40:05 nice diagram 16:41:07 Hmm 16:41:20 What happens if an :AROUND method does not call CALL-NEXT-METHOD? 16:42:18 the chain terminates? 16:42:29 mcstar: true, but where? 16:42:52 I was under the imporession that you have to call CALL-NEXT-METHOD. If you don't, things would fail (like the primary not being called) 16:44:07 maybe you intentionally dont call the primary 16:44:31 but obviously i dont know much about clos :S 16:44:31 mcstar: maybe, but is there a "correct" answer? 16:44:54 I obviously don't know enough 16:45:04 even though I've recently written some pretty hairy MOP cod 16:45:05 code 16:46:00 pnq [~nick@AC816F5E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:46:33 mcstar: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html 16:48:00 ah, thats good, i read a couple of paragraphs of that some time ago 16:48:10 i will definitely read it when i need more 16:48:27 there is parts about methods combinations. 16:48:32 yes 16:49:19 i just have enough on my mind, i dont want to read it now, its enough if it works(TM) 16:49:36 OK, thanks daimrod 16:49:44 Turns out my understanding of :AROUND was correct. 16:51:07 yes. 16:52:21 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 16:53:50 fiveop [~fiveop@p4FCDF2E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:28 In a normal (:around) method, you must call the next method indeed. 16:54:43 ah, another stupid question of mine: what do you do when you try to track down a type error? i asked this before, and i think i still dont get something. i think i have (debug 3), but the backtrace is still very terse, 3 levels, the thirs is a foreign function call, i cant really do anything with it 16:55:26 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:44 See above: do you use FFI, rewrite it in lisp. 16:56:55 no i dont 16:57:06 Then spend 10 times the debugging time. 16:57:09 its standard sbcl, nothing fancy 16:57:21 Try ccl. 16:57:25 :S 16:57:46 then please, enlighten me, what do big projects do? 16:57:58 they dont use sbcl? 16:58:03 i heard ita used sbcl 16:58:20 mcstar: But at least one of their projects switched to CCL ;) 16:58:32 mcstar: viaweb used clisp. 16:58:37 is it recommended than, to use type declarations all the time for function arguments? 16:58:41 mcstar: But maybe describe the particular problem you're seeing  like put the stack on lisppaste. 16:58:45 ITA hired the sbcl hackers... 16:58:46 Zhivago: how long would it take you to write a c compiler in lisp that can compile to lisp a real piece of software? without optimizations? 16:58:57 prxq: 1 day. 16:59:10 pjb: that long??? 16:59:16 I'm slow. 16:59:48 sellout: i try using first or second on a struct 17:00:14 the problem is, the error can occur in many places, its tedious for me to hunt it down 17:00:20 eventually i will do it 17:00:53 mcstar: And the call site of FIRST is not in the stack? 17:01:45 http://paste.lisp.org/+2NA5 17:01:48 this is the error 17:02:39 Where do you pass an ANT to a function? 17:04:22 when the nosebear is not around! 17:04:25 lol 17:06:52 i dont know yet 17:06:57 but i spotted another error 17:06:59 mcstar: you are passing an ant to a something that expects a list. You need more backtrace than that 17:07:08 i know that :) 17:07:20 the problem is where do i do that 17:07:57 mcstar: you can scroll down in the slime window with the backtrace 17:08:02 prxq: so, how can little me persuade sbcl to spit out more? 17:08:13 thats the full backtrace 17:08:33 that 17:08:49 that's really odd. No slime, nothing? 17:09:02 what versions of stuff are you using? 17:09:13 1.0.49, recent slime 17:09:55 do you have (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-asdf)) after (require 'slime)? 17:10:12 i put (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) at the top of every oen of my files 17:10:25 sure, i have fancy 17:10:45 presentation loads up, i can access return values 17:10:52 thats not the issue 17:10:55 mcstar: try adding (speed 0) to that too 17:11:16 how do you call the function in question? 17:11:49 still the same 17:11:56 () 17:12:12 i dont use funcall or similars now 17:12:31 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 17:13:19 mcstar: what do you mean? Do you have a function (run-stuff) or something that you type into the prompt that then triggers the crash? 17:13:20 i probably will try ccl, i have it installed, but i have a couple of sbcl specific thins in my code(run-program,threads) 17:13:34 prxq: the first 17:13:51 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:13:57 mcstar: what? :-) 17:14:30 the first of what you said: i have an "netry point" so to speak, that i type into the repl 17:14:41 it isnt a single expression 17:14:53 it is very strange that you don't have slime in the backtrace. 17:15:17 like swank calls and alike? 17:15:21 yes 17:15:46 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:16:41 when my stuff runs, the I/O streams are redirected over the network(well, they are piped into/from netcat) 17:17:02 but i dont think this sould affect debugging 17:18:21 no, it shouldn't. 17:18:21 prxq: what should i see? when you encounter a similar type error, do you see where did it happen? 17:18:28 yes 17:18:43 ill try with something simple 17:19:02 did you see if you could scroll down the backtrace window? 17:19:28 mcstar: normally, I get a rather full backtrace. 17:19:43 as i said, thats the full output 17:19:48 whoa. 17:20:37 devhost [~devhost@174.143.148.179] has joined #lisp 17:20:46 i load the program with asdf, is it possible that it affects the compilation, so as to make the backtrace this terse? 17:22:29 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:23:10 Bit confused about INCF... (macroexpand '(setf (values foo baz) (bar))) is fine, but (macroexpand '(incf (values foo baz) (bar))) complains with "Multiple store variables not expected in setf expansion of (values foo baz)" 17:24:30 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:25:00 oh it's on purpose? 17:25:38 prxq: i wrote up 2 functions, one calls the other, in the other i try to (first arg) , and i give the first one for example a number as an arguemnt 17:25:46 the same error output is present 17:26:14 mcstar: bordeaux-threads 17:26:36 There's a run-shell-command in asdf, and in other portability libraries. 17:26:49 mcstar: ok, no idea. sorry. 17:27:04 pjb: ok, thats good, does it mean you dont use sbcl? 17:27:28 or only for fully debugged code? 17:27:29 No. It means that I'm independent from sbcl. 17:27:44 Yes, if I need more speed than clisp or ccl provide. 17:27:52 I also use ecl or abcl depending on circumstances. 17:27:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@218.51.169.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:18 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 17:34:28 pjb: how is ecl nowadays? 17:35:16 prxq: would you be so kind to put this in a file http://pastebin.com/xrFd4WTF, and paste me sbcl's output? (load "file") (fun1 3141592653) from terminal? 17:35:20 ecl's maintainer is a pretty cool guy, he replaced all symbols to ecl_ overnight because i had a conflict 17:35:33 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 17:36:00 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:36:00 prxq: ecl is very good. 17:36:19 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@130.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:36:31 mcstar: 1s 17:36:32 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-65-89.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:36:47 prxq: over 17:37:27 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:39:01 > Error: value 3 is not of the expected type LIST. 17:39:03 > While executing: FIRST, in process listener(1). 17:39:09 from ccl 17:39:29 mcstar: http://pastebin.com/XpDDBf6j 17:39:50 i had to move the cursor past the 'more' to get that much bt 17:40:26 whoa 17:40:29 thats nice 17:40:34 the 'more' that appears at the bottom of the backtrace buffer 17:40:54 prxq: i know what youre talking about, but my moar after 2 expands to nothing 17:41:04 i surely didnt miss that :) 17:41:15 :-) 17:42:00 i use 1.0.49 17:42:10 prxq: if you do this without slime, whats te output? 17:42:22 does (fun1 (fun2 appear too? 17:42:38 same version for me 17:44:25 (excuse my garmmar/typos) 17:44:54 http://pastebin.com/WnQMzSjx 17:45:05 (yes) 17:45:13 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 17:46:49 to use sbcl directly, without slime, there is inferior-lisp mode - in case you didn't know that. (Sorry if I'm being patronizing) 17:48:02 :) 17:48:15 i used inferior, then i realized i can have more 17:48:30 i think i watched marco's video 17:49:10 well, my output differsbefore the backtrace begins 17:49:20 prxq: you have been very cooperative, thax :) 17:49:47 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:50:04 in my .sbclrc theres only a couple of lines loading quicklisp, i suppose the error cant originate from there 17:50:43 i don't have anything fancy either. 17:51:12 can you paste your output in the case without slime? 17:52:14 http://pastebin.com/J4TZeLSQ 17:52:32 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 17:53:10 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 17:53:12 if i type backtrace, i get this: 17:53:15 1: (SB-KERNEL:INTERNAL-ERROR 17:53:17 #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X7FFFF6D8F080) 17:53:19 #) 17:53:21 2: ("foreign function: #x417940") 17:53:23 not much 17:53:50 mcstar: your calling a list function on an integer 17:53:54 That's weird. Did you compile that yourself? Do you have threads enabled? Do you have a custom image? 17:54:05 Kenjin: no shit, sherlock 17:54:05 That's why I don't like sbcl, it uses "foreign" code. 17:54:10 Try ccl instead. 17:54:50 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:54:52 mcstar: got to leave. good luck. 17:54:56 pjb: ok, i probably(eventually) will, but he has a nice output and i want it too 17:54:59 prxq: I'm sorry. I've come in, in the middle of the conversation. Apologies 17:54:59 *mcstar* cries 17:55:09 bb, thx 17:55:20 fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 17:56:13 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:56:20 since you asked: the distro compiled sbcl(Arch), i have threads enabled(i used them before) and i dont think its a custom image 17:57:25 val876 [~val@host253-59-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:57:27 f i hope its not 17:57:41 i messed with another one, but that cant eb loaded 17:58:36 how can i unintern a function or a method? 17:58:44 You cannot. 17:58:50 One can unintern only a symbol. 17:59:17 yes, i can't explain myself 17:59:18 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 17:59:26 i've insert a method :after 17:59:33 clhs delete-method 17:59:33 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for delete-method. 17:59:39 ok, tu 17:59:46 clhs remove-method 17:59:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_met.htm 18:01:20 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.108] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:40 pjb: lets say, i once loaded an image of sbcl.core of another operating system(extracted from a .deb, ~1.0.45), and that compiled my files "over", can you tell me where could this damn thing write? .cache? .config/? 18:02:42 No, it's too configuration dependent. 18:03:05 but if there a version mismatch, sbcl recompiled the files, so i still dont understand 18:03:05 Is there a way to get ASDF to not print out the diagnostic messages? 18:03:37 I tried to let *standard-output* to nil and do the loading inside that, but that failed spectacularly 18:03:49 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:15 try that with *error-output*? 18:05:17 (guessing) 18:05:30 ah, you cant bind it to nil 18:06:43 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f7d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:09 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 18:09:11 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:56 (make-broadcast-stream) --> /dev/null 18:10:40 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 18:11:20 -!- val876 [~val@host253-59-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:45 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 18:16:11 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:15 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 18:30:55 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:34:47 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 18:38:36 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40:05 silenius [~silenus@ip-80-226-24-15.vodafone-net.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:36 HG` [~HG@p5DC05714.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:17 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:21 hey all 18:53:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041097.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 18:56:01 pjb: prxq i asked someone to run that sample code on an Arch system, there was no lisp before on that machine, the debugging output is the same as mine was 18:56:21 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:18 mcstar: what version of sbcl is it? 18:58:33 1.0.49 18:58:47 mcstar: seems like a good idea to compile a version from the net. 18:58:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:58:52 fundamental [~fundament@li48-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:52 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:53 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:58:53 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 18:58:57 mcstar: that's odd odd odd. 18:59:00 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:59:08 i could try compiling it, but im not sure what to change... 18:59:34 mcstar: I don't think you need to change anything. Just enable threads. 19:00:41 well, when i run a compute-intensive code, i see 2 sbcl's on 100% 19:01:03 that's two threads, likely. 19:01:12 ill check my distro's compile flags 19:01:30 for sbcl? 19:01:41 that doesn't work that way :-) 19:01:57 ah, did i misunderstand something? 19:02:11 you said i should compile sbcl with threads enables 19:02:13 d 19:02:19 well, there's an equivalent to flags, so maybe not. 19:02:52 i mean i copy the script that my distro uses to compile packages, and i can see what goes to configure 19:02:52 mcstar: you unpack the sources, and create a file called customize-target-features.lisp in the top source dir 19:03:05 no autoconf for sbcl 19:03:12 oh 19:03:16 i didnt know that 19:03:59 http://pastebin.com/kXi1T7Ha 19:04:14 that's what goes to this file, minus the long-float business. 19:04:15 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:04:19 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 19:04:25 then make.sh and install.sh (with sudo) 19:04:48 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:07 i can see those in my PKGBUILD 19:06:02 (enable :sb-thread) 19:06:04 (disable :largefile)) 19:06:11 Kenjin: i'm sorry for being somewhat grumpy 19:06:20 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 19:06:50 doesn't look like it'd make a difference. Maybe the local-.lisp-expr. 19:07:51 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:07:58 maybe arch sucks :-) 19:08:21 it woudl be odd, since it rock in any other aspect 19:08:25 s 19:09:35 mcstar: how is it with hardware drivers? could it substitute ubuntu? 19:10:38 i dont really get this: what is the difference between linux distros ragarding hardware support? if something is not supported oob, you get the sources and you have it 19:11:05 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:08 mcstar: the level of automation is the difference. 19:11:26 well, it wont download for you anything automatically 19:11:38 arch is kiss 19:12:08 but since it has aur, usually youre only 1 command away 19:12:26 if something isnt in the official repos i.e. 19:13:08 -!- fundamental [~fundament@li48-162.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 19:13:28 im using it for >3 years, i can only recommend it 19:13:48 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:03 let's see how your self-compiled sbcl runs :-) 19:15:02 it shouldnt make a difference, since it is the exact thing tha packagers use :S 19:16:53 iirc there is almost no difference between a vanilla self-compiled sbcl and the sbcl from arch's repository 19:17:14 so something in arch linux is crippling the debugger. 19:17:20 that sounds weird. 19:17:49 they had the debugger disabled by default for a while iirc. 19:18:46 Maybe they proclaim (debug 0) before dumping the final image as well, who know? 19:19:18 so proclaim supersedes any declaim? 19:19:38 btw i dont see such in the compile script 19:20:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:05 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has joined #lisp 19:21:14 Look for a site wide sbclrc too. 19:21:33 http://pastebin.com/eHKLYtvd 19:21:48 this is the arch specific part for the compilation 19:23:00 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:23:48 no site-wide config 19:29:05 mcstar: Im an arch user too, and I've the same problem than you (foreign call in stack trace) 19:29:49 I've just finished to compile sbcl from the git repo, and it works. (no more foreign call) 19:29:52 :) there are 3 of us now 19:30:15 i recompiled from the official PKGBUILD, and the error remains 19:30:28 daimrod: is it a newer version? 19:30:36 ill try that too 19:31:26 yes, sbcl from extra is 1.0.49 and the git version is 1.0.50 19:32:09 arch uses sourceforge for sources 19:32:10 the 1.0.49 from sources works well here (ubuntu) 19:32:35 weird. 19:33:03 so that won't be the problem. The build script messes up something, I would say. 19:33:08 Try --no-sysinit --no-userinit 19:33:16 tried 19:34:19 yeah, could be(should be, theres NO other explanation :)) but its soo clean, the error has no place to hide 19:34:58 daimrod: could you give me instructions as to what to do? 19:35:16 did you just clone the repo, and run an install script? 19:35:39 pjb: Thanks, that did the trick! (Sorry for the delay. Stuff intervened) 19:35:51 mcstar: sh make.sh 19:35:56 then sh run-sbcl.sh 19:36:10 git clone blahblah? 19:36:12 yup 19:36:16 ok 19:36:57 arnsholt: good. 19:38:44 daimrod: is there no official git repository? 19:38:47 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:39:59 git clone git://sbcl.git.sourceforge.net/gitroot/sbcl/sbcl.git 19:40:28 thx 19:40:51 git://sbcl.boinkor.net/sbcl.git i found this 19:40:56 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 19:41:45 -!- yroeht_ [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:40 arch-sbcl -> http://pastebin.com/D53tsw7R , git-sbcl -> http://pastebin.com/KKVMFNZT 19:42:53 but i don't know what's wrong with arch-sbcl :( 19:43:50 prxq: It's quite alright. I had no business intervening middle conversation, without context 19:45:22 daimrod: i wont open a ticket (or wth they call the bugreports) i think 1.0.50 will be packages in a couple of days 19:45:41 only if the problem persists, then i might do that 19:45:54 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:57 are you familiar with this reporting of errors? 19:45:59 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 19:46:01 mcstar: I think I'll learn how to make PKGBUILD :p 19:46:04 no 19:46:23 honeslty i did have the need to report errors in 3 years 19:46:28 i didnt* 19:46:45 i made 1-2 aur packages 19:47:14 PKGBUILDs are very straightforward and easy 19:48:03 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:26 symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:46 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:53:27 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:53:50 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 19:54:12 hypercube32 [~hypercube@231.125.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:02 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-3-34.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:55:02 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-3-34.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 19:55:02 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 20:02:38 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:31 -!- silenius [~silenus@ip-80-226-24-15.vodafone-net.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:03:58 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:04:19 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:13:26 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:45 -!- elliottcable [~ec@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: rage] 20:15:42 abeaumont [~abeaumont@155.212-8-69.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 20:17:30 fundamental [~fundament@li48-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:05 yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 20:18:49 anyone here call lisp from C using ecl? 20:19:21 The documents talk plenty of calling C using the ffi, but very little is documented about the reverse direction. 20:19:59 elliottcable [~elliottca@ec2-174-129-205-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:11 Also ecl does not seem to be handling command line arguments as expected "-eval -h -...". 20:21:48 The standard calls to functions defined by ecl appear straightforward, but not calls going to custom lisp code. 20:25:20 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:59 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f76279a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:05 Good evening! 20:32:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:36:10 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 20:36:27 -!- fundamental [~fundament@li48-162.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 20:40:11 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:42:03 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.116.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:43:08 well, works for me too, building from git 20:43:32 if i change the source of the arch install script to build the 1.0.50, it build it broken 20:43:34 s 20:46:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f7d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:06 gn 20:47:08 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-48-130.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 20:48:38 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05714.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:49:23 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:52:49 dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has joined #lisp 20:53:38 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p4FCDF2E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:54:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:01:06 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-48-130.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 21:02:19 i had to come back and comment on the fact, that this is amazing, i was missing this nice debugging facility for at least a month! that is, half the time i knew common lisp 21:03:04 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-48-130.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:06:50 which facility? 21:06:56 oh, he left. 21:07:41 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816F5E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:52 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:10:07 -!- dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:10:23 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:30 pnq [~nick@ACA2A26E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:54 zmv: I think he was talking about backtrace 21:20:01 Oh. 21:20:42 The arch-version of sbcl doesn't work with backtrace, instead we got a weird foreign call. 21:22:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f266.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:36 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 21:23:16 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:30:48 I finally made a separate system from my Hunchentoot taskmaster that limits the number of worker threads. 21:30:57 Only tested in CCL so far, but no reason it shouldn't work elsewhere. 21:30:58 https://github.com/billstclair/limited-thread-taskmaster 21:31:49 Been running my blog with that code for almost two months now 21:32:27 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:34:29 I also made some changes to Nikodemus' port of my FSDB system to SBCL. My Truledger project is now based on that system. Truledger doesn't yet work in SBCL, but the portable FSDB will make that a lot easier 21:34:46 https://github.com/billstclair/fsdb 21:34:55 Looks like I need to write a readme for that 21:37:20 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:17 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f76279a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 21:42:29 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:10 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [] 21:46:54 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:20 README added. 21:51:42 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:37 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@189.17.97.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:56:48 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-176-1.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:15 ympbyc [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:01:56 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:26 amb007 [~a_bakic@189.17.97.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:07 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:09:53 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 22:17:07 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 22:20:36 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-119-188.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:20:36 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 22:21:09 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 22:23:56 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:23:58 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 22:25:01 timack [~tim@hlfx58-2a-226.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:31:51 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-150-115.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:33:21 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 22:38:54 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:40:01 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 22:41:18 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx58-2a-226.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:44:18 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:44:24 timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100201.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:24 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 22:44:44 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-140-87.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:16 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100201.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:04 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:42 Milawa sounds great! 23:02:03 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 23:04:27 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:05:29 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:32 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 23:06:20 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-65-89.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:07:15 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.65.89] has joined #lisp 23:07:15 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.83.65.89] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:53 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:20 -!- scrimohsin [~hdfg@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:13 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 23:22:10 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:22:46 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 23:24:34 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:25:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:46 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:46 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:27:46 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 23:28:29 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 23:32:09 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 23:32:16 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:32:39 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:53 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:33:52 sellout: there's some wierd problem with llvm:verify-module not properly passing the error string on SBCL 23:33:56 seems to work on CCL, oddly 23:34:39 chu [~mathew.ba@130.56.92.101] has joined #lisp 23:35:57 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2A26E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:36:00 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 23:40:30 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.81] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:41:56 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:02 tama [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 23:43:17 Cositta [ircap8@77.209.22.246] has joined #lisp 23:43:23 -!- tama is now known as lakkris 23:43:42 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:43:52 -!- Cositta is now known as _Campana 23:43:56 hey all 23:44:17 -!- _Campana is now known as _Campanna 23:44:21 -!- _Campanna [ircap8@77.209.22.246] has quit [Client Quit] 23:45:17 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.53.81] has joined #lisp 23:52:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:53:42 benny` [~benny@87.122.19.255] has joined #lisp 23:55:06 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8913.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:55:23 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:56:39 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-195-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-31-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]