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[~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:50 Good morning everyone! 02:27:42 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:03 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 02:31:26 anzime [~defkurtz@ip70-176-48-167.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:13 armence [~armence@c-98-248-229-2.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:13 -!- armence [~armence@c-98-248-229-2.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:40:13 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 02:42:59 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.215.40] has joined #lisp 02:45:52 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:11 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-154-159.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:35 superflit [~superflit@71-208-202-115.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:52 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8C77B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:12 -!- ikki 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has joined #lisp 03:40:43 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:06 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 03:43:11 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:11 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:43:30 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:30 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 03:43:33 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:44 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:47 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 03:45:07 dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-065.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:01 In CLIM is there a way to refer to a gadget specifically? I've tried using (gadget-id (eql 'id)) but I get an error for too few args for (eql). I would like to be able to set the value of one gadget that I know its ID. 03:47:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:47:21 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:49:51 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:50:05 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:19 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:54:53 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.247.95] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:56:53 it doesn't seem like there is anyway to (setf (gadget-value 'gadget-id) new-value). I guess what I am asking is how would I refer to a gadget by its id as a gadget class. 03:57:11 -!- albino [~albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:23 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 03:58:45 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 04:02:52 -!- _pw_` [~user@125.34.47.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:13 _pw_` [~user@125.34.47.139] has joined #lisp 04:03:23 -!- _pw_` [~user@125.34.47.139] has quit [Client Quit] 04:04:09 _pw_ [~user@125.34.47.139] has joined #lisp 04:04:28 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:04:45 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 04:09:41 albino [~albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 04:14:56 -!- daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:15:10 what is cffi's sizeof(CSTRUCT) equivalent? 04:15:11 pislocide: Maybe (eql (gadget-id gadget) 'id)? 04:15:29 pislocide: You can't pass just one argument to eql. 04:15:44 -!- chu_` [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:16:13 pislocide: And what do you mean by "refer to a gadget specifically"? 04:16:20 pis: Set up an index? 04:16:35 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.24.109] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 04:17:23 pislocide: If you need to refer to one of your gadgets, the traditional method is to keep a reference to it somewhere, like in a variable or in some kind of data structure. 04:18:01 pislocide: But if memory serves, gadgets are panes, and panes have names, so you can try to use FIND-PANE-NAMED. 04:18:10 clim find-pane-named 04:18:10 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/28-3.html#_1508 04:18:16 kennyd: ROOM 04:18:21 daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 04:18:38 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:24:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:32 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 04:26:30 plage: thanks, i will try that out. What I meant was that I know the id of the gadget I want to use , a text-editor, and I want to display formatted text to it from a stream. 04:29:18 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-178-166.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:29:36 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: goodbye] 04:30:52 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180102129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:32:08 plage: are you saying to use (setf gadget-var (make-pane ':gadget-pane &options)) instead of (defmethod make-gadget-pane (make-pane ':gadget-pane &options)) 04:32:38 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:32:53 -!- deathmoniac [~needcoffe@200-138-135-160.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:33:04 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 04:33:21 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:33:28 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:34:34 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ncfoxktzorjkbvvs] has joined #lisp 04:34:54 deathmoniac [~needcoffe@201-25-142-177.ctame705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:35:05 Hunden [~Hunden@e180098208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:35:33 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 04:35:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:35:54 superflit [~superflit@71-33-179-220.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:13 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:13 -!- Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:41:33 Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 04:42:54 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-71.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 04:44:08 -!- Quadresce [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Client Quit] 04:44:09 benny [~benny@i577A8A52.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:47:24 pislocide: I think you should be able to use find-pane-named. 04:50:24 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ArchMonkey] 04:51:41 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:56 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:52:24 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:55:04 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 04:55:50 allright. I've been trying the Guided Tour of CLIM and it used (defmethod make-gadget-pane), it seems somewhat confusing on trying to (setf gadget-var (make-pane))) as it doesn't recognize my options. 04:58:30 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:00:50 Xach is a brilliant guy 05:00:52 hes cool 05:03:46 -!- anzime [~defkurtz@ip70-176-48-167.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:04:07 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@ip68-109-29-26.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:14:48 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:19:51 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 05:26:24 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:27:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-71.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28:12 pislocide: defmethod specializes on a class. I though you wanted a particular instance? 05:28:51 -!- symbole [~user@ool-4a5a4bdd.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:39 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:37:23 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-040-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:34 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-179-220.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:44:00 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:46:25 cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 05:46:26 superflit [~superflit@71-33-183-4.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:43 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:38 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 05:58:30 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 06:01:50 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 06:02:03 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 06:04:27 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-183-4.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:05:00 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:07:32 -!- albino [~albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:11:13 superflit [~superflit@71-33-152-106.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:15 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has joined #lisp 06:16:28 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 06:19:29 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-152-106.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:20:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:23:53 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:25:53 superflit [~superflit@71-208-214-117.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:09 Quadresce` [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:30:39 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d85229b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:31:01 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:08 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-192-179.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:33:35 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:54 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:43:05 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:43:05 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:43:20 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87fd78.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:47:02 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:47:13 -!- Quadresce` is now known as Quadrescence 06:47:29 Quadresce` [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:47:40 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:05 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:56:59 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 06:57:08 Hello. 06:57:50 How I can modify emacs find-file sugestions? 06:58:04 For example, I want not to match dot files until I type dot. 06:58:39 #emacs 06:59:10 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:01:37 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:57 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:07:30 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:07:44 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:08:01 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:03 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:08:19 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:09:46 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:03 -!- El_Diablo [~Aaron@adsl-68-88-64-64.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has left #lisp 07:11:08 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:11:18 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-040-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:14:13 plage: thank you for the help. I wanted a particular instance. I guess a safe rule to say would be, if you don't need the internals to manipulate the pane, use defmethod, otherwise use setf 07:15:20 sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:15:20 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:40 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:41 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-yymeetrjgskthesp] has joined #lisp 07:21:41 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:23:14 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:23:56 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:24:25 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.233.44.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:25:32 chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:26:27 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:26:51 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:27:20 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:27:23 am0c [~am0c@222.233.44.234] has joined #lisp 07:30:00 ciao 07:30:21 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:30:21 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:32:56 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 07:33:57 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 07:35:16 Posterdati: guten morgen 07:35:32 Bonjour! 07:36:06 jo reggelt 07:37:09 flip214: sys 64738 07:37:24 flip214: look at the space between sys and 64738 07:38:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:38:46 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:39:07 pjb: hi! 07:39:53 Posterdati: looks like \x20 to me ... 07:40:20 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 07:40:20 slater [~slater@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 07:40:29 kerx [~kerx@76-240-161-60.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:57 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:41:40 hello. I am getting odd error when loading the system asdf, can someone take a look 07:42:46 slater pasted "asd error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123348 07:44:17 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:27 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:44:41 when loading asdf system even 07:46:48 -!- kerx [~kerx@76-240-161-60.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:48:34 slater, This isn't an ASDF problem. 07:48:45 What's happening is that the macro gets expanded at compile time 07:48:54 Before func has been defined. 07:49:01 I see 07:49:07 If you *really* have to do something like this, use (eval-when) 07:49:13 (on func) 07:50:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.249.255] has joined #lisp 07:50:34 Another option is to avoid your macro depending on actually executing code defined in the same module. 07:50:40 you mean (macro) in (defun foo () (macro)) is being expanded before foo and func are even defined? 07:50:53 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 07:51:00 Yep: sorry I was slightly wrong. It gets expanded at read time, I think 07:51:29 how come it works if I use the file directly though? clisp test.lisp 07:51:35 So the parser first goes through the file and expands all the macros etc. and then tries to compile the result. Unsurprisingly, that ain't going to work here. 07:51:44 Hmm. 07:51:46 -!- chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:42 Doesn't work here with sbcl... 07:52:46 macros are not expanded at read time, but quite logically, at macro-expansion time. 07:53:05 pjb, Thanks. Sorry, I'd forgotten the name. Either way, it's before compilation 07:53:11 slater: indeed, (macro) in (defun foo () (macro)) is being expanded before foo and func are even defined. 07:53:13 -!- peddie [~peddie@repl.esden.net] has left #lisp 07:53:52 slater: that's because when the compiler sees a defun, the only thing it's required to do, is to note that func and foo are functions. But it doesn't have to load the definitions for func and foo in its environment. 07:54:28 slater: The situation is different when you execute the file without compiling it. Then you have basically the equivalent of a REPL, and of course, as soon as a form is read, it's evaluated. 07:54:47 and its side effects are available in the run-time environment for the following forms. 07:54:57 ok I think I get it now 07:56:05 That's why the functions used at macroexpansion time, must be defined in the compilation environment, and you can do that with (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (defun func ...)) ; of course, you often want those functions to be also available when you load the source, so add :execute, and when you load the fasl file, so add :load-toplevel too. 07:56:20 chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:56:26 (eval-when (:execute :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) (defun func ...)) (defmacro ... ,(func ...) ...) 07:57:50 pjb, Thanks for that: I understand the clisp result now too! 07:57:57 those functions are only used by the macro. so I think I'll be happy with (eval-when (:compile-toplevel ... )) 07:59:04 good thing I got that error, I completely misunderstood how macros work until now 07:59:28 sacho [~sacho@95-42-118-162.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 08:00:58 Well, you want to define your macro when you load the source too. So you need at least (:execute :compile-toplevel). 08:01:48 pjb: I'm starting the project :) 08:02:23 oh, actually I want to be able to use in repl as well. should I go with (eval-when (:execute :compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) (defun func ...)) then? 08:02:32 Posterdati: good! 08:02:34 "to use macro in repl" 08:02:42 slater: yes. 08:03:04 That's the usual way to use eval-when, with all the situations. 08:03:33 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@ec2-184-73-244-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 08:03:41 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7BACC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:04:02 antifuchs [~foobar@ec2-184-73-244-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:04 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082AF2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:47 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p508291EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:13:30 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 08:19:25 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-zuvnilaqljvdsrju] has joined #lisp 08:21:13 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:22:02 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 08:22:06 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:41 -!- leo2007 [~phd@114.247.10.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:31 Sulimo [~angel@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:33:56 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b7b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:37 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 08:37:52 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87fd78.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 08:41:34 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has joined #lisp 08:41:52 i/nick H4ns 08:41:56 -!- H4ns``` is now known as H4ns 08:43:09 leo2007 [~phd@114.247.10.69] has joined #lisp 08:46:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-103-125.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:46:34 -!- slater [~slater@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 08:47:08 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-71-15.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:50:22 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Sleeping] 08:50:25 sykopomp: can you have views over more than one "doc type" in chillax? 08:50:39 pjb: I'm reading a bit of AIMA 08:52:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.45.136] has joined #lisp 08:56:40 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b7b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:36 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:05:35 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 09:10:25 zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:25 -!- zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:10:25 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 09:11:48 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:11:48 trigen [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has joined #lisp 09:12:16 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:51 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 09:12:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 09:12:51 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:13:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zhnwhpqjybqhuxny] has left #lisp 09:16:18 -!- d2biG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:19:56 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:21:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:24:24 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:25:31 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:29 Posterdati: that's a good idea. 09:27:54 Posterdati: PAIP is the practical AIMA companion. 09:27:55 pjb: got little problems with aima code 09:28:05 PAIP? 09:28:12 minion: tell us about PAIP 09:28:12 us: look at PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 09:28:28 There's code available. The book must be bought. 09:28:37 And is worth it. 09:30:28 So, what code poses problem? 09:31:50 sbcl compatibility 09:32:01 ordered now from hoepli.it 09:32:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:37:39 I've got a copy of AIMA code that I can load in sbcl without much problem (just 4 style warnings). 09:39:45 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:40:47 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:40:47 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:13 ftp://ftp.informatimago.com/pub/lisp-misc/aima.tar.bz2 09:41:28 (load "aima/aima.lisp") 09:42:09 got it 09:42:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.249.255] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:42:36 AIMA is a old favourite of mine. 09:43:16 pjb: thanks 09:43:38 These days it is Learning from data by Muller and Cherkassky 09:44:35 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.67.80] has joined #lisp 09:44:51 Coupled with All of statistics by Wassermann 09:45:39 The couple beets Bishops Pattern recognition and machine learning hands down 09:47:45 pjb: I've got a lot of errors 09:48:17 Today's calendar is the Coptic and Ethiopic calendars 09:48:26 ; caught STYLE-WARNING: 09:48:26 ; undefined function: OPERATE-ON-AIMA-SYSTEM 09:49:55 pjb = Pascal B.. 09:50:21 -!- Kryztof` [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:23 seen you on conp.lang.lisp .. 09:51:37 comp 09:54:33 ,aima 09:57:29 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:40 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:04:56 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.24.61] has joined #lisp 10:06:58 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:10:58 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:41 -!- plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-69-23.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17:42 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:17:47 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-192-179.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:19:55 Well, that was weird. SBCL was refusing to find an (existing) applicable method the second time the gf was called with an object of a particular type. Re-eval the defmethod, re-run: finds method the first time, not the second. 10:21:39 Posterdati: I loaded my copy of aima with sbcl 1.0.45 without error. 10:21:45 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:22:15 :( 10:22:34 Did you try my copy? 10:22:42 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.69.44] has joined #lisp 10:22:50 yes 10:22:55 (test 'agents) 10:22:56 worked 10:25:06 pjb pasted "success" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123352 10:25:37 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:09 add^_ [~add^_^@h44n5c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:28:42 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123353 10:28:48 pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123353 10:33:51 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:04 Posterdati: Try with (declaim (sb-ext:muffle-conditions (or style-warning SB-EXT:COMPILER-NOTE)) (optimize (speed 0) (space 0) (debug 3) (safety 3))) 10:34:41 ; No value 10:35:00 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:35:06 ok! 10:35:43 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 10:35:46 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:36:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123353#1 10:36:13 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vytbryzorcaizmtt] has joined #lisp 10:36:23 shall I embed it in my .sblcrc ? 10:36:28 shall I embed it in my .sbclrc ? 10:36:34 That's what I do. 10:36:43 what is it actually? 10:37:07 It says shut up to sbcl :-) 10:37:19 ok 10:37:27 after quicklisp stuffs? 10:38:02 Or before, as you want. 10:38:06 ol 10:38:07 ok 10:38:25 should "restart" be suffice, or have I to reload emacs? 10:39:04 worked! 10:39:05 Just evaluating it at the REPL is enough to activate it. No need to reload anything. 10:39:26 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 10:40:01 no for the .sbclrc 10:40:11 the correct method for setting a class-slot in a matrix is (setf (slot-value (aref matrix index) 'class-slot) value) - right? 10:40:34 A matrix is usually a 2D array. 10:40:43 So (aref matrix i j) 10:41:09 All right, so it would fine in a vector then? 10:41:36 Posterdati: If you make extensive changes to .sbclrc, you can (load #P"~/.sbclrc") ; but on the condition that your .sbclrc's are idempotent (or benign). 10:42:37 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:43:13 dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 10:44:54 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:46:27 ok 10:46:31 (test 'agents) 10:46:34 wumpus :) 10:49:46 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ncfoxktzorjkbvvs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:50:11 add^_^ [~add^_^@h186n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:52:09 -!- add^_ 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bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:04:13 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 14:04:33 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.137.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:05:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:09:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:15:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-duqljcufiyanlxif] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19:00 -!- chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:19:58 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:37 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:22:32 mon_key annotated #123011 "cobol EVALUATE docstring URL 404'd" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123011#1 14:23:11 -!- scrimohsin [dink@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:23:34 chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:26:59 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-153-49.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:28:44 -!- Quadresce` [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:28:49 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:30:32 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:32:02 mon_key annotated #123011 "good approximation of the expected behaviour?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123011#2 14:32:30 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:37:57 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:39:47 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:40:43 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 14:41:12 Quadresce` [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:42:10 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] 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[~elias@bb115-66-87-235.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:58:17 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 14:59:37 -!- bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: derp.] 15:00:03 Confusion about compilation: Why do I still get the error about Functions not being allowed in fasls when I'm in an (eval-when (:load-top-level)) block? 15:00:12 jdz [~jdz@host192-90-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:02:37 Ah ha, the answer is that I'm not 15:02:43 I'm getting it elsewhere as an ancilliary 15:02:58 if you think you need eval-when, you are probably doing something wrong 15:04:15 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-ivzhtalzljkcmtqn] has joined #lisp 15:04:21 I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you on that one :) 15:05:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:41 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:48 nowhereman 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[~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 15:32:37 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-cudyttwwdhbjcfag] has quit [Client Quit] 15:32:42 HG` [~HG@p5DC059AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:15 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:33 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC059AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35:50 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-192.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:36:33 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:39:25 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 15:45:47 curfont [~q@oh.yeeaaaah.org] has joined #lisp 15:49:21 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:52:58 urandom__ [~user@p548A26AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:41 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@69.70.212.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:30 -!- armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:55:44 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:00:59 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kbkputgkujlfjphs] has joined #lisp 16:04:42 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 16:09:29 Anaeluxo [~jorixZloz@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:11:00 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-227.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:12:28 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-160-192.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:14:58 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-rzigwkxqjzkqtlbm] has joined #lisp 16:15:08 I've a macro within a macro. Is that an acceptable standard? Or should I remove that, because it won't recognize a vector as a type array. 16:15:49 pislocide: if it is not working you should remove it. 16:16:18 srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:18 -!- srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:16:18 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 16:16:26 schmrkc: easy enough, but does your response mean it is atypical to embed macros within each other? 16:16:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A40394.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:17:27 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-227.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:29 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-142-116.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:18:11 pislocide: what does it mean to you to embed a macro in a macro? 16:20:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20:36 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:21:45 xach: i guess my vernacular is of a lay person, but in my limited understanding of a macro, I figured that calling a macro to be evaluated within a macro would be 'embedding' one within another. 16:21:48 -!- ec|fkn_away_nick is now known as elliottcable 16:22:42 pislocide: a macro is a function that accepts some source code as input and produces some source code as output. do you mean there is a macro call in the output? or do you mean that a macro is used to produce the output? 16:22:50 pislocide: it's quite ok to put a macro in a macro. 16:22:58 pislocide: eg. (loop ..... (loop ..... )) 16:23:20 -!- trigen [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:24:16 Yes, within the output there is a macro called. 16:25:04 pislocide: that is pretty normal. for example, your macro might expand into something that has the macro COND in it. 16:26:31 -!- Anaeluxo [~jorixZloz@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:10 I guess I will have to play around with it more. For some reason it won't recognize my vectors as arrays. 16:28:04 pislocide: paste it? 16:28:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:29:34 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.85] has joined #lisp 16:29:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:33:34 psilocide pasted "macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123361 16:33:37 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:34:54 A quick glance at that paste and my intuition is those should be functions, not macros. 16:34:57 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:35:02 Same here. 16:35:06 Ameshk [~jorix72Tk@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:35:48 when should one use a macro versus a function? It seemed to me that when I tried these as functions, that I didn't get any output into *offspring* vars. 16:36:13 same problem except that I didn't ` and didn't use (progn 16:36:17 It should be a macro when you are trying to make a syntactic abstraction of a repeated pattern. 16:36:34 Sometimes the rule is "It should be a macro when it can't work as a function." 16:36:56 Your functions should be functions and not macros. Better to write them as such and fix the problems with them as they are instead of turning them into macros. 16:37:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:38:04 Well, if they were written as functions; what would prevent (mate-breed population-1 population-2) from evaluating (crossover population-1 mate-1 mate-2)? 16:38:31 I've checked *offspring1* and *offspring2* and they are the same as when defined : "0". 16:39:57 -!- chu_ [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:40:05 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 16:40:23 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:41:30 pislocide: Functions operate on data. Macros operate on syntax. You're operating on data here. 16:41:50 pislocide: try tracing. 16:42:03 Or simplifying. 16:43:17 If you can write functions that return values rather than setting global variables, life will probably get better. 16:44:11 pnq [~nick@ACA2B6EA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:10 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.193] has joined #lisp 16:45:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.193] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:10 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:46:30 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:35 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.20] has joined #lisp 16:46:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:47:33 zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:33 -!- zfx [~zfx@mail.inqmobile.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:47:33 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 16:48:22 bhaskara` [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:50 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 16:50:13 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:27 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-216-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:31 Thank you for the help and advice, guys. I guess it's like picking up any other foreign language. 16:52:07 ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:17 tessier_ [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 16:53:41 gz__ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:01 Quadresce_ [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:54:08 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-192-179.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:54:21 DrForr_ [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:22 bizarrefish [~lee@cl-15.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:24 Hi, all 16:54:29 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.167.251.191] has joined #lisp 16:56:00 I'm just getting into the slightly deeper end of common lisp, and have come up with something strange: given the function (defun somefunc (a b) (eval a)) , Calling it like this: (somefunc 'b 2), i'd expect it to return '2'. 16:56:27 Could someone give me a stupid-person's explaination as to why this doesn't happen? 16:56:42 Change your expectations. EVAL is a function and cannot access the value of B in the lexical environment. 16:57:39 Ah...right. ok, that seems obvious now :P O.o 16:58:20 Is there some way to do what i'm proposing, or is the function's lexical environment lost after the function is created? 16:58:36 What are you proposing? 16:58:59 Why do you want EVAL ? 16:59:01 Pass a name to a function and get the value associated with that name in some context? 16:59:16 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- Quadresce` [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.251.191] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.234.14] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-192-179.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-52.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- fds [~frankie@fsf/member/fds] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:16 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:59:48 I'm proposing passing an unevaluated symbol into a function, which can then be linked to an object in the function's environment 16:59:56 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.69.44] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:09 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@122.167.251.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:00:13 bizarrefish: why do you want to do that? 17:00:47 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:00:53 bizarrefish: you could do that by creating a hash table and using the symbol as a key. 17:00:54 i want to redefine a struct to a class. however, you can't legally redefine the struct to be a class. how would i undefine the struct in order to define a class with that name later on? 17:01:05 madnificent: in what implementation? 17:01:08 gigamonk`: I don't actually want to do it for a practical reason, i'm just trying to understand the finer points of namespaces in CL. I know that this kind of thing would very much be 'doing it wrong' 17:01:33 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-136.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:35 Xach: sbcl, but I'd be somewhat surprised if it wouldn't be defined in the hyperspec :) 17:01:45 tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:02:05 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 17:02:06 Xach: That's what i'd probably do if I was trying to write working code, yeah :) 17:02:14 Xach: wait, i take that back, this is probably buried in the mop somewhere 17:02:28 madnificent: (sb-ext:quit) is how one technique starts 17:02:32 So is there some kind of situation where a function has access to a different namespace from the context it's called from? 17:02:35 madnificent: it finishes by reloading your project after restarting. 17:02:39 madnificent: redefinition of structs is not well defined as far as I recall. 17:02:57 That's why standard-classes are much better. 17:03:13 fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:14 Xach: well, yes, I can do that. however, i wanted to learn the fancy way without restarting my image 17:03:30 or....can't you call a function from outside it's namesp... nvm, I got it now :P 17:03:31 madnificent: there is no such fancy (and portable) way for structs. 17:03:38 gigamonkey: i wanted to save characters (print) by using a struct 17:03:40 cheers guys :) 17:03:47 bizarrefish: CL does not call anything a "namespace" 17:04:04 is there an sbcl-specific way either? 17:04:06 bizarrefish: maybe http://l1sp.org/cl/3.1.1 would help 17:04:37 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 17:04:59 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:15 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.221.186] has joined #lisp 17:05:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:05:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:06:20 Xach: yeah, I mean 'namespace' very much in the purer sense 17:06:30 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:06:36 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:06:38 But thanks for link, reading 17:06:46 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kbkputgkujlfjphs] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:07:20 paul0 [~paul0@200.146.125.129.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:07:55 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:55 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:07:55 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:09:49 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2B6EA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:10:04 pnq [~nick@ACA2B6EA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:50 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:30 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:33 -!- gz__ [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 17:13:22 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 17:13:47 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-234-14.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:14:27 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:02 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 17:20:53 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 17:23:46 OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 17:24:46 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:24:57 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:28:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:19 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:26 -!- Ameshk [~jorix72Tk@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:54 has lisppaste been stable the last two weeks now? 17:38:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:38:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@p57A40394.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:49 (I've changed some parameters in the setup which should make it stabler) 17:38:57 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:39:05 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:41:30 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:23 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2B6EA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:43:08 ehu: On a side topic  who should I talk to to invite the IRC-bot that works with lisppaste to the Polish lisp channel? 17:43:25 gigamonkey: I have a question/beef with CL-FAD:PATHNAME-AS-FILE and the empty string. what do you think about this: http://paste.lisp.org/+2N64 17:44:05 antoszka: well, that's a tough question; the bot has been in a race between spammers and the bot developers 17:44:21 pnq [~nick@ACA2B6EA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:24 joker` [~user@dslb-188-105-097-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:25 one way to keep spam down is by not having it join so many channels. 17:44:32 but the value is low these days: 17:44:47 the bot doesn't paste the link into the channel anymore. 17:44:49 zfx [~zfx@host86-133-8-97.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:49 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-133-8-97.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:44:49 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 17:45:10 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-zuvnilaqljvdsrju] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:45:41 antoszka: but I believe nyef would be the person to talk to, at the moment. I don't know any other maintainers. I'm just the infra guy. 17:46:05 ehu: Thanks. 17:46:16 Except he's not here. 17:46:30 true. 17:46:47 he's not here regularly anymore. 17:47:03 (neither am I; I'm on holiday :-) 17:47:19 *antoszka* senses a missing closing paren 17:47:53 -!- Younder [~john@86.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:07 ehu: ah! 17:48:13 make it leave 17:49:37 Has been discussed before: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/ted_talk.png 17:50:30 -!- rmarianski is now known as rmar|mtng 17:50:42 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:14 lol 17:51:25 -!- joker` [~user@dslb-188-105-097-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:39 mon_key: what's the problem you're trying to solve? 17:52:44 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 17:53:11 On (cl-fad:pathname-as-file "") signals an error even though the empty string is a valid pathname. 17:53:21 ^ On SBCL 17:53:56 Hmmm. What file does the empty string name? 17:54:39 this one -> #P"" [: 17:54:48 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-192-179.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:55:02 mon_key will not give up! 17:55:04 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:55:05 The purpose of pathname-as-file is to make sure the pathname is in a certain format. It's not clear the empty string can be converted to such a format. 17:55:24 xcv [~xcv@hermes.logmenn.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:28 mon_key annotated #123340 "rationale (for posterity)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123340#1 17:55:54 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:09 I think I'd be inclined to say that pathname-as-file should error on the empty string. 17:57:23 Are there any implementations where it does not? 17:57:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-209-136.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:34 Assuming no, then the question is should it error in a more informative way. 17:57:44 At the very least there is a significant differene between clisp and sbcl here. The former does somethnig very ugly (IMHO) whiel the latter errors 17:58:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:56 Did this actually come up in the wild? 17:58:58 My primary concern/beef is that it should either error (and earlier) for all implementations, or it should provide an interface to allow/not-allow the empty string. 17:59:01 gigamonkey: yes 17:59:04 How so? 17:59:23 cl-fad:list-directory 17:59:29 Of what? 18:00:30 (cl-fad:list-directory "") 18:00:33 So I'm moderately strongly opposed to changing the interface to allow for passing the empty string because that doesn't seem to me to make any sense. 18:00:42 And what happened? Works fine for me. 18:00:44 pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 18:00:52 (Of course I'm using my original code, not actually cl-fad.) 18:00:52 -!- pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has left #lisp 18:01:06 so, com.gigamonkey.pathnames? 18:01:06 Nope, cl-fad version works to. 18:01:22 Yeah. But they're not particularly different as far as I know. 18:01:37 it works because it does this: (cl-fad:directory-wildcard "") 18:01:48 So what's the problem? 18:02:25 An issue is that if (cl-fad:directory-wildcard "") is valid then why isn't (cl-fad:list-directory "*.*") 18:02:54 on SBCL (cl-fad::directory-wildcard "") => #P"*.*" 18:02:54 18:03:19 Because that's an implementation detail. 18:03:25 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:33 The point of LIST-DIRECTORY is to list an actual directory. 18:03:50 Because the wildcard foo is not particularly portable. 18:05:13 I'm still not understanding how this actually came up. 18:05:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:05:41 (list-directory "") works, yes? What doesn't work? 18:06:00 If the answer is passing a wild pathname to list-directory, well, it says right there in the docs that it doesn't accept wild pathnames. 18:07:07 when walking a directory if there is any possibility that some function higher up which frobs a path if that that function returns the empty-string and it gets passed to pathname-as-file it can fail non-portably. 18:08:17 clisp> (cl-fad::directory-wildcard (cl-fad:pathname-as-file "")) => #P"nil/*" 18:08:17 18:08:54 clisp> (cl-fad::directory-wildcard (cl-fad:pathname-as-file nil)) => #P"nil/*" 18:08:54 18:08:55 mon_key: That last thing means nothing to me. directory-wildcard is an internal function which you shouldn't be messing with. 18:09:46 But if you wan't to submit a patch to Edi that makes pathname-as-file (and perhaps pathname-as-directory) to error on the empty string, I could probably endorse that. 18:10:08 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.146.125.129.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 18:10:19 That would be nice. 18:11:24 Thanks for taking the time to entertain my query. 18:11:44 I still don't see when it matters. 18:12:07 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:12:49 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:13:19 Perhaps instead of (if (directory-pathname-p name) ...) it should be (if (and (directory-pathname-p name) (pathname-directory p)) ...) 18:14:50 cnl [~cnl@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 18:14:55 pkhuong: When I re-ground i will try to dig up the specific use-case. One general area is when parsing argv/script arguments b/c as it is one has to check for the presence of both nil and the empty string which may be complicated in the presence of a non-lisp's e.g. bash/C/etc. . 18:15:22 nil? When do you get nil as argument to a script? 18:15:52 In either case, the script should do its own error checking. 18:16:18 gigamonkey: hi, how are you ? 18:17:20 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:52 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:31 Younder [~john@86.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:25:49 Posterdati: hello. Good. How are you? 18:26:02 gigamonkey: not bad, not bad 18:27:51 dnolen [u2594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dzpnpskbtwftuzhv] has joined #lisp 18:28:05 -!- dnolen [u2594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dzpnpskbtwftuzhv] has left #lisp 18:30:19 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:11 -!- looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:16 The emtpy string thing also influences return value of CL-FAD:FILE-EXISTS-P 18:31:19 sbcl> (cl-fad:file-exists-p #P"") => #P"/value/of/default-pathname-defaults/" 18:31:22 clisp> (cl-fad:file-exists-p #P"") => #P"" 18:32:49 mon_key: clisp does not treat directories as files for the purposes of standard CL file-related functions (e.g. PROBE-FILE) 18:33:01 (probe-file *default-pathname-defaults*) for example will result in an error. 18:35:09 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b7b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:28 xach: Fine. clisp is in error and CL-FAD et al need not nec. be responsible for accomodating that. I'm just pointing out that there is a potential discrepancy: cl-fad:file-exists-p "The truename is returned in `canonical' form, i.e. the truename of a directory is returned as if by PATHNAME-AS-DIRECTORY." 18:36:38 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 18:38:20 Yeah, so the return value of the probe-directory branch of the CLISP bit should probably be (merge-pathnames directory-form) rather than directory-form. 18:38:31 mon_key: Why is CLISP in error? 18:41:23 -!- dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:27 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:12 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:34 Or maybe, more to the point (truename directory-form) since file-exists-p is advertised to return a truename. 18:42:49 Is this permitted by the spec? clisp> (cl-fad:pathname-as-file "") => #P"nil" 18:42:52 mon_key: can you check that (truename #p"") in fact returns *default-pathname-defaults* on CLISP? 18:43:36 The cl-fad "spec"? I'd say that looks wrong. 18:43:37 gigamonkey: clisp> *default-pathname-defaults* => #P"" 18:43:39 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:43:52 Eh? 18:44:03 Anyway, we agreed that "" is not a valid argument to pathname-as-file. 18:44:11 Or I agreed. ;-) 18:44:27 kitizen_kain [~chatzilla@MSSC-182-152-dhcp.colorado.edu] has joined #lisp 18:44:59 I'm sorry. clisp returns #P"" for *d-p-d* and the value of the environments pwd for (truename #p"") 18:45:59 zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 18:48:28 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:10 Wow. That's a different way to approach things. 18:49:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:43 So anyway, file-exists-p should probably pass everything it returns through TRUENAME 18:51:53 Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-192-179.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:52:55 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 18:53:05 So to be clear. sbcl (truename #P"") returns *d-p-d* clisp (truename #P"") returns the equivalent of clisp> (ext:cd) 18:53:20 mephisto_ [~mephisto@69-165-217-17.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:53 looopy [~looopy@64.134.177.0] has joined #lisp 18:54:43 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:54:58 -!- jdz [~jdz@host192-90-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:56 IOW. on clisp initially (truename #P"") is equivalent to (ext:getenv "PWD") but after doing (ext:cd "./subdir") (truename #P"") returns as per (ext:cd) 19:02:29 HG` [~HG@p5DC059AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:51 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@69-165-217-17.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:56 rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD5C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:03 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:03:08 gigamonkey: w/r/t file-exists-p what about symlinks to nonexitent files? 19:03:09 mephisto_ [~mephisto@69-165-217-17.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:26 e.g. clisp will error sbcl will return the symlink itself. 19:04:37 dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has joined #lisp 19:05:21 zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 19:06:45 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:07:06 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.233.44.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:07:53 -!- ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:08:14 jdz [~jdz@host183-17-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:09:48 mon_key: dunno. What does TRUENAME say? 19:11:35 gigamonkey: for return value of CL-FAD:FILE-EXISTS-P? 19:12:58 I mean, if you have a pathname that denotes a symlink and that symlink doesn't point to an actual file, what does TRUENAME of it give you? 19:13:02 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:19 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 19:14:07 on a *NIX clisp it signals an error. on sbcl it returns the symlink itself. 19:14:14 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:43 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:02 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 19:16:07 Yeah. So cl-fad doesn't really do anything (that I'm aware of) to deal with symlinks in a sane way. There's just no primitives in CL to do much of anything even vaguely protable there. 19:17:00 The implementations may provide enough common functionality for someone to write a library of symlink-aware functions but I have no idea. 19:17:32 Right. but the issue is that if you pass the retun of CL-FAD:FILE-EXISTS-P through TRUENAME it will not do what is expected either. 19:17:55 So, i have symlink-to-non-file -> non-file clisp> (cl-fad:file-exists-p #P"/path/to/symlink-to-non-file") => NIL 19:18:30 (truename (cl-fad:file-exists-p #P"/path/to/symlink-to-non-file")) => TRUENAME: File #P"/home/sp/HG-Repos/CL-repo-HG/CL-MON-CODE/mon-systems/nil" does not exist 19:18:30 19:20:26 Yeah. I think I'd say if you start passing symlinks to cl-fad functions it may break and you get to keep both pieces. 19:20:52 But file-exists-p should at least always return the result of calling TRUENAME on something. 19:20:58 -!- bhaskara` [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:21:07 Which may error on some platforms and not on others in the case of symlinks. 19:21:31 If i do that directly your right. But what of indirect callers higher up. 19:21:56 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:22:02 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 19:22:16 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:47 mon_key: what of them. I'm telling you, if you mix symlinks and cl-fad you'll probably be sad. 19:23:00 OK :) 19:23:19 BTW, I'm saying that file-exists-p should be changed to do the TRUENAME for you. 19:23:29 Though again, Edi's the guy you have to convince. 19:23:40 am0c [~am0c@222.233.44.234] has joined #lisp 19:23:53 Look all i'm really getting at is that cl-fad:file-exists-p already relies on clisp's "EXT" so there is likely an equivalent to SBCL's TRUENAME :) 19:24:16 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 19:24:21 FWIW i can see why you handed off maintenance... this is ridiculous 19:24:32 Yes. But it's advertised to return a truename, i.e. something that would be returned by the function TRUENAME. 19:25:05 If implementations differ there, I'm not really sure we can paper over that in a principled way unless we want to bite off all of symlink portability. Which I do not. 19:25:22 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:47 EXT:ABSOLUTE-PATHNAME would prob. do the trick 19:26:22 it does 19:30:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:58 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 19:32:30 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:35:21 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-118-162.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:13 sacho [~sacho@95-42-118-162.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:37:25 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:40:25 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-118-162.btc-net.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:42:31 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.85] has joined #lisp 19:42:51 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 19:43:03 sacho [~sacho@95-42-118-162.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:46:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:46:09 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:25 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 19:48:03 dic3m4n [~dicmn@host81-129-225-82.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:51 dic3m4n_ [~dicmn@host86-128-235-113.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:35 tempire_ pasted "use packages" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123367 19:53:10 the paste generates an error because the :use'd packages are not loaded. What's the correct way to load the packages? 19:53:20 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 19:54:15 -!- dic3m4n [~dicmn@host81-129-225-82.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:54:15 -!- dic3m4n_ is now known as dic3m4n 19:54:24 tempire_: (ql:quickload "cl-who" "hunchentoot" "parenscript") 19:54:35 even in production scripts? 19:54:57 tempire_: there is a distinction between packages (which are only namespaces for symbols) and 'systems' 19:55:05 tempire_: you'd define an asdf system and load it in your production script. 19:55:27 tempire_: what pkhuong said. 19:55:27 yeah, I was having trouble with that. figured I'd go back to basics. 19:55:34 Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.182.144] has joined #lisp 19:55:44 tempire_: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html is a nice intro to systems and packages. 19:55:59 tempire_: look at quickproject it helps 19:56:21 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 19:56:27 and pretty much describes how I handle my own systems. Quickproject simply abstracts the details a bit, but it does the stuff in that link. 19:56:44 ISF_ [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 19:56:53 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:02 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.85] has joined #lisp 19:59:09 -!- dic3m4n [~dicmn@host86-128-235-113.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:11 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:36 look at http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html?thread=674335 if you want to try quickproject 19:59:49 it also explains some of the asdf stuff 20:00:10 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:00:44 sykopomp: can you do a view over more than one document in Chillax? 20:01:18 dic3m4n [~dic3m4n@host86-128-235-113.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:46 Harag: Kinda. You can do something called a 'couchdb join'. 20:02:06 http://www.cmlenz.net/archives/2007/10/couchdb-joins 20:02:17 couchdb insert 20:02:40 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:51 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 20:04:48 Harag: if you want to skip everything else, just jump down to "Optimization: Using the Power of View Collation" 20:05:01 Harag: I'm using it for a very similar task in my own project and it works nicely. 20:05:02 got there already ;) 20:05:07 aha :D 20:07:18 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:07:36 gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:17 zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 20:08:25 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:08:30 sykopomp: that looks like it will do the trick 20:08:33 thanx 20:09:44 no prob. 20:10:09 sykopomp: was i dreaming the other night when you said you might abandon couchdb because of the lack of ACID ...cant remember the big word you used 20:10:52 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:11:06 -!- dic3m4n [~dic3m4n@host86-128-235-113.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: dic3m4n] 20:13:26 Harag: correct. I did say that. 20:13:34 I'm using it for now because it's nice for prototyping. 20:13:46 but I haven't found reasonable workarounds to certain genuine needs I have. 20:14:18 I mean, things as basic as "No duplicate emails" are pretty much impossible. 20:14:48 but the couchdb bumph says : The CouchDB file layout and commitment system features all Atomic Consistent Isolated Durable (ACID) properties 20:14:52 -!- Puffy_tp is now known as PuffTheMagic 20:15:02 Harag: for single document, yes 20:15:19 There is no atomicity outside a single document insert. 20:15:53 and there's no db-side way to guarantee uniqueness of any field other than _id (the key) 20:16:10 so if you want it to be unique, you have to encode it in the _id. 20:16:26 ouch 20:16:34 -!- xcv [~xcv@hermes.logmenn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:09 thanx for that heads up, i have reviewed so many nosql solutions in the last month and each of them have those little snaggs no one will speak about 20:17:18 yeah, no kidding. 20:17:43 it's still a great DB, though. I just don't know how to make it do what I need it to do :( 20:18:12 one suggestion has been to forget about general atomicity, and have other ways to ensure consistency. Delayed checks, for example. 20:18:33 so the duplicate email makes it in, but I check afterward whether there's dupes (a view can do this) 20:19:09 i might be lucky to not have a problem with the duplicates because all my data is timestamped anyway 20:19:47 so my views should always look at the "latest" record 20:20:03 yeah :) 20:20:12 maybe I could end up doing something like that instead of abandoning couch. 20:21:08 i have to be able to do reporting "at a point in time" so I have no choice, it makes creating views/queries a lot of fun ;) 20:22:33 if you are going to consider it go for a dual stamp approach...stamp (when the record was created) and stamp_exp(when a record was expired) that way queries are faster and cleaner 20:22:41 -!- seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:35 sykopomp: speed wise if you had to map over a million docs using chillax what kind of execution times should i expect 20:24:38 ? 20:25:02 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 20:25:12 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 20:25:15 Harag: no idea. I assume you're talking about using the chillax view-server, right? 20:25:21 -!- ISF_ is now known as ISF 20:25:21 yes 20:25:47 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-153-49.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:53 Last I checked, I think it was 3-5x faster than the native JS view server. 20:26:18 but I think that could reach 10-15x if I find time and motivation to modify the view server to use jsown instead. 20:26:19 i have not installed chillax yet :( ..... need to do it asap to get a rough benchmark 20:26:37 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:26:40 how can i motivate you? 20:27:15 I collect all chillax donations. I will forward. 20:27:20 felideon: haha 20:27:21 ceaseless adulation 20:27:32 roflmao 20:27:34 Harag: You can at least make sure the performance is not up to par. 20:27:46 -!- looopy [~looopy@64.134.177.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:07 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:17 but remember that Couchdb views are like materialized views: They're built as necessary. Actually -getting- results is just a matter of making your query, and having couchdb find things in the prebuilt tree. 20:28:45 So view server speed only really matters (afaict) when you're importing lots of things all of a sudden. 20:29:14 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:30:18 -!- rmar|mtng is now known as rmarianski 20:33:43 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:34:01 that should not be an issue for me 20:34:37 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@69-165-217-17.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:00 scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 20:41:04 looopy [~looopy@65.240.149.74] has joined #lisp 20:41:09 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:42:17 zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 20:45:01 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:47:09 srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:09 -!- srid [~srid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:47:09 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 20:47:24 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 20:48:27 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:50:00 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Changing host] 20:50:01 ch077179 [~urs@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 20:51:51 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:52:21 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 20:52:30 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:12 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-134-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:57:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:01:58 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.233.44.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:14 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 21:02:41 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 21:05:39 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:51 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06:07 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:08:22 -!- jdz [~jdz@host183-17-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:09:13 sykopomp: is the view server the only way to map over a "resultset"? 21:10:12 and does it use a cursor or fetch all the data and then map? 21:11:57 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2B6EA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:14:22 am0c [~am0c@222.233.44.234] has joined #lisp 21:15:36 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:14 Harag: there's a protocol. It loads as much as it thinks is necessary, at a time. 21:21:41 *sykopomp* may have misunderstood the question. 21:22:22 sykopomp: ok let me rephrase 21:22:33 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:23:37 if i wanted to map over each doc one at a time without fetching all the docs(or sets of docs) form the server first is the viewserver quickviews the best option 21:24:15 are you talking about temporary views? 21:24:21 yes 21:24:29 sorry got the name wrong there 21:24:50 temporary views are only meant for development. Once you've cooked up a view, you should use a designdoc 21:25:50 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:25:58 and if you want to test a map function on a single document, you could just load the function in your dev environment and call it yourself. 21:26:18 defun emit into something like (cons ...) 21:26:24 ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:31 well, (push x (cons ...)) 21:27:03 brb, heading home. 21:27:07 k 21:27:15 thanx 21:27:57 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:28:01 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC059AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:27 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has joined #lisp 21:34:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.45.136] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:34:27 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:27 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 21:36:23 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 21:37:34 woo, my canvas now has offscreen compositing :p 21:39:41 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-bqzuzgbuoikhrcow] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:40:35 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:40 pnq [~nick@ACA30670.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:00 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:44:53 -!- rosario [~rosario@p4FCDD5C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:48:36 -!- looopy [~looopy@65.240.149.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:46 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@ANantes-151-1-192-179.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:57:35 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.35.234.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:31 nixfreak [~Aaron.Mei@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:10:01 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 22:11:25 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:14:23 Harag: did that answer your question? 22:15:38 sykopomp: well yes and no ... i am at a loss as to how to do it in code...most likely becuase of a lack of couchdb knowledge 22:15:57 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:17:31 looopy [~looopy@adsl-074-236-131-226.sip.cae.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:31 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:34 tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:20:40 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:48 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:29:22 Mustansir_ [~Mustansir@64.125.180.153] has joined #lisp 22:29:23 -!- Mustansir_ [~Mustansir@64.125.180.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:25 -!- Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.182.144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:44 Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.182.144] has joined #lisp 22:29:44 -!- Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.182.144] has quit [Client Quit] 22:30:29 Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.182.144] has joined #lisp 22:32:42 albino [~albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 22:35:04 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:40 -!- albino [~albino@69.12.222.214] has quit [Quit: real men don't quit, they flee] 22:39:41 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:59 albino [~albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 22:48:08 Xof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:35 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:56:53 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:57:29 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-142-116.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:58:20 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:20 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:58:41 sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:16 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:15 -!- sbryant_work [~user@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:05:11 -!- Quadresce_ [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:21 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:05:36 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:40 rosario [~rosario@2002:4fcd:d5c6:0:22cf:30ff:fe67:e789] has joined #lisp 23:12:19 -!- Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.182.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:13:15 Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.180.153] has joined #lisp 23:15:12 -!- rosario [~rosario@2002:4fcd:d5c6:0:22cf:30ff:fe67:e789] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:04 -!- Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.180.153] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:27 -!- kitizen_kain [~chatzilla@MSSC-182-152-dhcp.colorado.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:46 an8yearoldvagyna [46b3a543@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.165.67] has joined #lisp 23:20:18 -!- an8yearoldvagyna [46b3a543@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.165.67] has left #lisp 23:22:21 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:22:28 -!- ngz [~user@104.236.75.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:23:09 I'm writing some simple code to record seen files (by content). The idea is to use (ironclad:digest-file :sha256 filename) as a hash-entry key. However, in a standard hash this would get hashed twice (and collision probability would be larger esp. if the internal hashing function has a smaller space). 23:23:41 Can I use the output of ironclad:digest-file as the direct hash, without rehasing? 23:24:18 make-hash-table has a hash-function key, can I use anything there (as long as it spews out some expected hash-key format)? 23:25:05 antoszka: read the documentation; that's a non-standard extension. 23:25:11 (this hash-function thing does not seem to be mentioned in the CLHS, is this an sbcl thingy?) 23:25:15 yeah 23:27:24 rosario [~rosario@2002:4fcd:d5c6:0:21f:e2ff:fea9:b9d8] has joined #lisp 23:28:06 OK, so in sbcl this could be apparently any function, another question arises: ironclad spews out a vector of bytes as the hash, what would be the fastest way to concatenate them into a fixnum (bitwise) for using as a hash in a hash-table? 23:28:08 antoszka: can't use hash value directly 23:28:50 256 bits is too big for hashtable hash that has to fit in main memory 23:29:19 (and that's what make-hash-table creates) 23:30:14 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:15 p_l|backup: Certain? 23:30:28 p_l|backup: A 256-bit fixnum is too big as the hash-key? 23:31:05 antoszka: as *direct* hash, yes. what hashtable needs to do is to hash the key into a simple form that can be used to quickly pick a slot 23:31:26 But then it doesn't make sense to hash it twice. 23:31:32 antoszka: uhmmm 23:31:48 Then I should use the file's *contents* as the key, don't you think? 23:31:50 Directly. 23:32:00 antoszka: cryptographic hash and hash used in hashtable are two different things in practice 23:32:21 Certainly, I'm not interested in the crypto quality of the hash. Only need to avoid collisions. 23:33:04 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:09 For a moderately large pool of random input streams. 23:33:12 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:33:55 Does a hash guarantee uniqueness in some magical way? 23:33:56 the first has to ensure as little collision as possible. the second has to turn a big key into a small fixnum that can be used to pick indice in an array. a 32bit indice gives you probably somewhere around 2^32*ptr_size bytes needed for hashtable 23:33:57 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:34:51 -!- rosario [~rosario@2002:4fcd:d5c6:0:21f:e2ff:fea9:b9d8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:02 antoszka: basically, hashtable hash takes a file's unique identifier (SHA256) and turns it into something that can be used to quickly store and retrieve something under that key in an array of buckets 23:35:20 rosario [~rosario@2002:4fcd:d5c6:0:21f:e2ff:fea9:b9d8] has joined #lisp 23:35:44 p_l|backup: But that's hashing twice (with two different hashes)  shouldn't I in this case 01:31:48 < antoszka> Then I should use the file's *contents* as the key, don't you think? 23:37:28 antoszka: too big for practical use 23:37:46 Still, maybe faster than hashing twice? 23:38:09 antoszka: the second hash will be unnoticeable 23:38:29 In this case why not skip the first one altogether and just rely on the quick one :)? 23:38:41 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 23:38:46 antoszka: because then it will stop being a quick one :P 23:38:50 As I said, I need to mark a certain stream as seen, no need for a high quality hash. 23:39:40 antoszka: sha256 would take care of uniqueness constraint, while hashtable hash is just there to let you quickly check if you had seen that chunk before 23:39:48 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.221.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:39:57 actually, that should be a hashset, I guess 23:39:58 -!- rosario [~rosario@2002:4fcd:d5c6:0:21f:e2ff:fea9:b9d8] has quit [Client Quit] 23:40:00 Maybe it will still be quicker than ironclad/sha256 + coerce + make hash entry. 23:40:08 antoszka: nope 23:40:17 I don't see how it would take care of the uniqeness constraint. 23:40:58 It's getting late. 23:41:05 Think will have to postpone that till tomorrow :) 23:41:24 antoszka: hashtable hashing doesn't care for uniqueness, only for apropriate distribution (collisions are only a performance drop). crypto hashing is all about being unique :) 23:41:38 Quite the opposite :) 23:42:24 crypto hashing does *not* guarantee uniqueness (other than having a low probability of collision because of the number of bits, nothing more). 23:43:00 antoszka: I'm not saying it will guarantee, just "take care" for useful approximation of certainty 23:43:05 :) 23:47:11 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:57 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8A52.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:35 foocraft [~ewanas@178.152.90.79] has joined #lisp 23:55:13 -!- CrazyEddy [~horoscopy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]