00:00:23 pjb: what does clisp do with these things? 00:00:33 The stepper works well. 00:01:57 Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:47 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:04:11 -!- ympbyc [~ympbyc@222-152-64-125.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:15 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has joined #lisp 00:04:38 -!- Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:12 val700 [~val@host102-152-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:07:06 hi 00:07:06 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:11 so i'm going really crazy. 00:07:14 i can't understand. 00:07:34 when i call a function like (defun aa (x) (push 'a x)) 00:07:35 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B4AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:07:41 and i pass a list like (setf a '(a b c)) 00:07:47 what i'm passing????? 00:07:57 Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:05 -!- Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:09 why something the function modify the list and some other time it doesn't??? 00:08:20 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:21 Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:39 <_3b> SETF of a variable modifies that variable bindings, not the value stored in it 00:09:05 (setf a '(a b c)) means that a  (a b c) 00:09:10 yeah sure 00:09:17 then i pass it to the function aa 00:09:21 os (aa a) 00:09:29 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:09:32 aa push 'a in x, that is a 00:09:34 <_3b> if you pass the list (setf a (quote (a b c))) to aa, aa will return the list (a setf a (quote (a b c))) 00:09:35 right, then it's the same as saying (push 'a '(a b c)) 00:09:43 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:09:52 no no wait 00:09:55 i pass a 00:10:07 what is a 00:10:09 so 00:10:15 let call 00:10:20 var= (a b c) 00:10:24 a list, simply. 00:10:24 <_3b> if you mean you call aa with a variable containing the list (a b c), it will return the list (a a b c), and the variable a will still contain the list (a b c), which shares all but the first cons with the list returned by aa 00:10:34 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has joined #lisp 00:10:39 yeah 3d, this is correct 00:10:40 my question is 00:10:58 WHY if i do a push into the function the function doesn't modify the variable 00:11:07 but if i do i nreverse the variable IS modified???? 00:11:12 <_3b> it modifies the variable binding /inside/ the function 00:11:27 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:34 val700: n is often appended to functions to explicitly /tell/ you it will modify its arguments 00:11:34 <_3b> nreverse modifies the contents of the list stored in the variable 00:11:48 (reverse a) ; a doesn't change 00:12:00 yes, i knew nreverse was destructive 00:12:02 (nreverse a) ; a does change, same as (setf a (reverse a)) 00:12:06 but doens't push destructive too? 00:12:14 ok but if in a funciont 00:12:25 <_3b> no, push isn't destructive 00:12:27 if i define a function like (defun func (x) (setf a (reverse a))) 00:12:40 <_3b> (push 'a a) is the same as (setf a (cons 'a a)) 00:12:41 who/what/when is the variable a 00:12:42 and i pass '(a b c) 00:13:00 then the var '(a b c) will be '(a b c), not '(c b a) 00:13:34 :-\ 00:13:38 <_3b> which doesn't do anything to the contents of a, just stores its value in the CDR of a new cons, then stores that new cons in the variable binding named A 00:14:09 val700: maybe see teh notes section of push 00:14:33 in the spec 00:14:39 mm 00:15:26 excuse me , but Iceland_jack says 00:15:27 (nreverse a) ; a does change, same as (setf a (reverse a)) 00:15:30 "The effect of (push item place) is equivalent to (setf place (cons item place)) except that the subforms of PLACE are evaluated only once, and ITEM is evaluated before PLACE." 00:15:47 but if i do (setf a (nreverse a)) in a function 00:16:06 the value in the variable passed to the function will remeain the same. 00:16:18 if i do (setf a (reverse a)) <---*** 00:16:22 :-( 00:16:34 *_3b* thinks that description of nreverse was wrong 00:16:44 good. 00:16:46 pnq [~nick@AC814E70.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:01 so 00:17:07 <_3b> you need to store the return value of nreverse, it is a function so can't change the binding of a variable passed to it 00:17:30 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:17:47 if i have a variable, say (setf a 3) 00:18:03 and i want to pass it to a function that DO change its values... 00:18:06 how can i do?? 00:18:16 <_3b> (setf a 3) is not a variable, and it does not create a variable 00:18:23 val700: in lisp the arguments are passed by value. 00:18:34 so i cant', right? 00:18:38 <_3b> functions cannot change bindings of variables passed to them 00:18:51 sorry for this newbye question, i'm a bit confuse 00:18:59 ok 00:19:10 but can change object, right? 00:19:12 <_3b> since they only see the value 00:19:15 val700: that means that given (defun func (x) (push 42 x)) (func a), what happens is (setf x a) (push 42 x). 00:19:25 Yes, you can change mutable object. 00:19:35 the objects are: 00:19:38 But values obtained by quoting are literal, ie. immutable objects. 00:19:40 array, structures..? 00:19:41 <_3b> right, then can modify the value, if it is modifiable (numbers for example cannot be modified) 00:19:46 lists arent's objects? 00:19:54 arent' 00:19:54 everything is an object 00:19:55 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has joined #lisp 00:20:00 val700: yes, everything but variables and multiple return values. 00:20:06 variables are not objects. 00:20:12 oook 00:20:31 i'm still confused 00:20:37 if i did 00:20:38 Notice that REVERSE doesn't specify how it reuses the conses. 00:20:48 (defun trythis (x) 00:20:50 ops 00:21:07 (defun trythis (x) (setf (aref 2) 4) 00:21:12 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:21:16 (let ((a (list 1 2 3 4))) (print (reverse a)) a) will first print (4 3 2 1), as specified, but the will return anything. Perhaps (3 1 4 2) perhaps (), perhaps something else. 00:21:20 and (defun trythat (x) (setf (first x) 3) 00:21:29 why if i pass in the first case an array 00:21:33 val700: this would work. 00:21:36 the value of the array change 00:21:43 with (defun trythis (x) (setf (aref x 2) 4)) 00:21:45 and if i pass to the second a list, the value of the list won't change? 00:21:52 if you pass a mutable array. 00:21:54 <_3b> pjb: missed an N in that (let ...) 00:21:56 by value. 00:22:06 It will too. 00:22:10 If you pass a mutable list. 00:22:22 aaah 00:22:25 But again, notice that REVERSE doesn't say how it mutates the list! 00:22:42 <_3b> pjb /N/reverse 00:22:46 lol 00:22:50 Right, NREVERSE, sorry. 00:22:54 mmm 00:22:56 <_3b> REVERSE is specified to not modify the list at all 00:22:59 how can i do mutable list? 00:23:06 I need to wake up... 00:23:11 Using LIST 00:23:17 Notice my example above. 00:23:30 Which should have been: (let ((a (list 1 2 3 4))) (print (Nreverse a)) a) 00:23:46 I didn't use '(1 2 3 4) because that is immutable, and you cannot pass it to Nreverse. 00:23:52 :O 00:23:55 really??? 00:23:58 really. 00:23:59 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:00 yes, 00:24:06 why the book i've read doesn't say this??! 00:24:20 What book is it? 00:24:26 <_3b> books tend to simplify to avoid giving you too many details at once 00:24:30 val700: they aren't as well informed as pjb. trust him on this one. 00:24:43 <_3b> same as it didn't tell you that (setf a ...) is invalid if you didn't create a variable named A first 00:24:45 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has joined #lisp 00:25:07 On the other hand, perhaps they talked only of REVERSE, which is purely functional, and don't modify the argument. Therefore (reverse '(1 2 3 4)) is valid. 00:25:17 no 00:25:23 they talked about reverse and nreverse 00:25:26 Ok. 00:25:27 so i've study on 00:25:38 A gentle introduction to symbolic computation 00:25:41 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:41 val700: you can read clhs to get all the details. 00:25:43 and ANSI common lisp 00:25:54 Yes, gentle doesn't enter into the details too early. 00:25:58 yes i know 00:26:04 but the ansi common lisp! 00:26:06 Notice that most implementation will still try to do something sensible. 00:26:14 wtf, i though that was a pretty deep book.. 00:26:25 In particular, at the REPL, there is not much to distinguish a literal from a non literal. 00:26:47 Since writing '(1 2 3 4) makes the reader build a list with the same functions as LIST, ie. CONS. 00:26:49 val700: gentle is a nice book. esp. the part about dragon dreams. 00:26:59 It's the compiler that may generate the data in read-only memory. 00:27:07 yes, it was a great book for a beginner like me 00:27:13 :) 00:27:18 so pjbc 00:27:32 *_3b* can actually make the GPU fan go above idle with my bitcoin thing now, yay :p 00:27:35 However, if you modify a literal that is used in the source of a function, even at the REPL, then you are modifying that source, and this is particularly visible in interpreters. 00:27:48 _3b: what is a bitcoin? 00:27:50 val700: yes, gentle is a good book. 00:27:55 <_3b> turned out i was checking the results too slowly once they got back to the CPU :/ 00:27:55 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:57 can you please summarize WHEN, when i pass an object, it will be change or not? 00:28:06 mon_key: computing things that are hard to compute to make money. 00:28:09 <_3b> mon_key: some silly virtual currency thing 00:28:17 s/silly/smart/ 00:28:39 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:46 *_3b* thinks most real currencies are pretty silly too, doesn't mean they aren't useful anyway 00:28:51 ^ 00:28:57 i thinks _3b is right 00:29:11 like fake money in a virtual world and what happens when bubba does x with y type stuff? 00:29:28 *_3b* thinks currency is off topic though, can talk about that in #lispcafe if needed, but probably shouldn't here 00:29:30 val700: so, as I said, some implementation try to be helpful. in clisp for example, Nreverse keep the first and the last cons in position, so that (let ((a (list 1 2 3 4))) (equal (Nreverse a) a)) is true. But this is an exception. 00:30:50 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:51 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:30:58 sorry 00:31:06 i'm doing some 00:31:16 test 00:31:26 (setf a (list 'a 'b 'c) <-mutable list, right? 00:31:32 ops, *) 00:31:36 yes. 00:32:05 (defun try1 (x) (setf x (cons 'a x))) <--shouldn't this change the list i passed, if a pass a mutable list? 00:32:26 No. CONS is purely functional, and you are only modifying the parameter variable X. 00:32:34 In lisp, the arguments are passed by value. 00:32:51 so i'm passing the value of the object list? 00:32:54 (try1 a) <=> (setf x a) (setf x (cons 'a x)) ; you never modify A. 00:32:58 Yes. 00:33:03 Only the values. 00:33:07 BUT 00:33:14 and this is where i got confused 00:33:22 when i pass an array, i can change it with setf. WHY?! 00:33:32 You can change the cons cells you are passing too. 00:33:52 (defun try2 (x) (setf (cdr x) (cons (car x) (cddr x)) (car x) 'a)) 00:33:54 BUT 00:33:56 -!- sword [~sword@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:34:05 this doesn't work on empty lists, because empty lists are the symbol NIL. 00:34:16 and you cannot set the car or the cdr of the symbol NIL. 00:34:42 It's the same with eg. DELETE. 00:34:47 -!- zmv_ is now known as zmv 00:34:49 You can delete all the elements, but the last one. 00:34:59 Because there's no way to transform a CONS cell into the symbol NIL. 00:34:59 mmm 00:35:07 so when i'm passing something 00:35:20 i'm passing its value and the cons cells? 00:35:26 (let ((a (list 1 2))) (delete 1 a) (print a) (print (delete 2 a)) (print a)) 00:35:30 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:40 The value of a list IS it's first cons cell. 00:35:50 Here's a big secret: there are no list in lisp! 00:35:54 Only cons cells. 00:36:00 lol yeah i supposed to know this :-D 00:36:22 ok 00:36:25 now i go to sleep 00:36:26 :) 00:36:30 thank you very much pjb 00:36:35 Good night! 00:36:37 night! 00:36:44 -!- val700 [~val@host102-152-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 00:39:51 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:44:49 its a wonderful day 00:49:39 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:05 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has joined #lisp 00:51:09 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:59 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:27 sword [~user@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:33 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:53:56 -!- Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:12 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:27 -!- rednum``` [~user@cpc1-walt9-0-0-cust744.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:02:45 mikewadhera [~mikewadhe@c-98-210-165-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:00 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.24.109] has joined #lisp 01:06:02 Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:20 zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has joined #lisp 01:09:12 OliverUv_ [fuckident@69.70.212.98] has joined #lisp 01:09:15 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:09:22 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:11:22 zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has joined #lisp 01:11:33 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:11:41 -!- zmv [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:16:38 newbie lisper here 01:16:57 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:33 could someone help explain the distinction between dotted pairs and traditional lists 01:17:51 <_3b> lists are made up of conses 01:18:06 <_3b> if the cdr of every cons is another cons, or NIL, it is a proper list 01:18:15 traditional list is (a b c)  (cons a (cons b (cons c NIL))) 01:18:31 dotted list is (a b . c)  (cons a (cons b c)) 01:18:44 if it ends in a NIL, it's proper 01:18:56 hmm 01:19:21 so (list 42) is the same as (cons 42 NIL) 01:19:43 (cons 42 11)  (42 . 11) 01:19:51 (cons 42 NIL)  (42) 01:20:00 ah I see 01:20:05 ISF [~ivan@187.106.54.41] has joined #lisp 01:20:25 so if the terminating element is not a list/nil 01:20:33 its a dotted pair 01:20:42 yes, (unless it's circular) 01:21:01 <_3b> well, NIL is a list, and another cons wouldn't terminate the list, but yes 01:21:03 Well, it's an improper list, a dotted pair is a pair, no? 01:21:12 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:30 well yes but he probably meant dotted list 01:22:56 @iceland_jack: yes I think dotted list is what I meant 01:23:11 I got dotted pair from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cons#Use 01:23:21 it can get quite confusing at first 01:23:56 mikewadhera: as you can see from the Wikipage the image is a (cons 42 (cons 69 (cons 613 NIL))) 01:24:12 which is the same as writing (list 42 69 613) 01:24:12 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:16 benny [~benny@i577A14D5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:25:01 right 01:25:06 mikewadhera: (try evaluating '(1 . (2 . (3 . nil))) just for fun) 01:25:36 (1 2 3) 01:25:49 hmm 01:26:16 so that is eq to (list 1 2 3)? 01:26:21 yes 01:26:33 and (a . b) is the same as (cons a b) 01:26:43 ahhh 01:26:47 ^ this 01:27:03 much clearer now 01:27:08 thanks :) 01:27:09 :) 01:27:11 no problem 01:27:26 <_3b> no, that list probably isn't EQ to (list 1 2 3), it is EQUAL to it though 01:27:54 <_3b> EQ would mean it is the exact same list, stored in the same place, etc... EQUAL means it has the same contents and structure 01:27:54 _3b: I don't think mikewadhera will benefit from arguing such semantics 01:28:11 right, I mean the latter 01:28:19 *meant 01:28:21 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@46.158.112.195] has joined #lisp 01:28:24 Hello. 01:28:24 value not ref 01:28:46 How can I compile clisp bytecode to C or native code?) 01:29:14 <_3b> clisp ha an experimental JIT, but it would probably be easier to just use a different CL implementation 01:29:47 <_3b> for example SBCL and CCL compile to native code by default,and ECL compiles to C 01:29:52 I use ECL but I wanna try clisp too. :) Just an experiment.) 01:31:19 @iceland_jack: (equal '(foo . bar) (cons 'foo 'bar)) => T 01:31:35 mikewadhera: I hope that helped :) 01:32:38 follow-up question. what are the idiomatic use cases for dotted lists 01:33:15 it seems they are syntactic sugar for literal list construction, esp mappings 01:33:31 _3b: so can you tell me how to use `experimental JIT` in clisp? 01:33:38 onlisp introduces them first with a make-dbms function 01:34:11 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:21 <_3b> n1tn4tsn0k: nope, i don't use clisp much... clisp manual probably says something about it 01:34:21 (setq cities (make-dbms '((boston . us) (paris . france)))) 01:34:34 mikewadhera: they're often used for association lists 01:34:38 _3b: `man clisp` ? 01:35:04 <_3b> n1tn4tsn0k: http://www.clisp.org/impnotes.html 01:35:15 thx 01:35:15 <_3b> "implementation notes" rather than "manual" i guess :) 01:35:16 yes assoc lists is what I mean when I say mappings 01:35:48 mikewadhera: you could implement something like coordinates.. anything that comes in pairs really 01:36:00 althought that could also be done with structures or classes 01:37:03 since i've seen the equivalence between the dotted list syntax and using cons i'm wondering if there is anything you can only do with dotted lists 01:37:14 or are they just sugar for pairs? 01:37:32 well, quite the opposite I should think 01:37:43 syntactic sugar is something that makes things /easier/ to write 01:37:58 so (list 1 2 3) would be syntactic sugar for (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 NIL))) 01:38:10 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:26 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:31 *_3b* would call that more of a functional abstraction than syntactic sugar 01:39:14 I seem to have a poor grasp on the terminology and nomenclature :) 01:39:20 s/on/of/ 01:39:20 <_3b> (list 1 2 3) is syntactic sugar for (list . (1 . (2 . (3 . nil)))) 01:39:35 <_3b> typing all the extra parens and . would make lisp programming much less fun :p 01:40:30 Less or more _3b? 01:40:32 right 01:40:53 I guess i'm wonder why the auto used dotted list in his example 01:40:56 *wondering 01:41:10 (setq cities (make-dbms '((boston . us) (paris . france)))) 01:41:49 i'm guessing because using dotted lists is more idiomatic when dealing with assoc lists 01:41:51 In that case the conses are being used as two-element relations, not lists, so they don't need to have nils. 01:41:57 <_3b> in that case, it could have used (list (cons 'boston 'us) (cons 'paris 'france)) 01:42:27 <_3b> and if it were planning to modify those conses, it would even be more correct to do so 01:43:04 @_3b: I see 01:43:41 <_3b> (you shouldn't modify anything returned by QUOTE which is what ' expands to) 01:44:23 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.152.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:44:27 right 01:48:20 I find it interesting that the sbcl repl actually shows a cons pair as a dotted list 01:48:29 * (cons 'boston 'us) 01:48:30 (BOSTON . US) 01:48:44 * (cons 1 nil) 01:48:44 (1) 01:48:59 anyone use kdb? 01:51:49 actually now realize (1) is equal to '(1 . nil) 01:51:54 mikewadhera: there's no other way for it to be shown 01:52:04 kpreid: :) 01:52:11 just realized that 01:52:12 just so, (1) = (1 . nil), but (1 . foo) has no other syntax 01:52:46 what would learning lisp be like without a repl? 01:53:07 makes it so easy to see recursive/axiomatic properties 01:54:17 They managed it early on. 01:55:15 ok I feel much more comfortable around dotted lists 01:55:19 thanks everyone :) 01:56:12 btw is there a good offline way to access common lisp reference 01:56:29 i.e. looking up docs for assoc or setf 01:56:55 or online for that matter 01:58:21 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-126.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59:25 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.164.236] has joined #lisp 01:59:35 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@46.158.112.195] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:01:01 pdponze [~androirc@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 02:02:25 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 02:02:46 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@109.58.189.254] has left #lisp 02:03:23 http://xach.com/clhs 02:04:48 superflit [~superflit@71-208-203-149.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:38 -!- pdponze [~androirc@144.85.121.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:06:27 kpreid: thx! 02:06:45 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.57.30.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:09:58 armence [~armence@unaffiliated/armence] has joined #lisp 02:10:05 -!- mikewadhera [~mikewadhe@c-98-210-165-199.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mikewadhera] 02:10:07 mikewadhera: emerge hyperspec 02:10:16 in any good linux distribution, such as gentoo... 02:11:01 Then M-x common-lisp-hyperspec RET car RET 02:11:29 Personnally, I bind common-lisp-hyperspec to C-h y (and also, I heavily patched it in my ~/.emacs). 02:20:06 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:31 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 02:22:56 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-169-43-95.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:29:58 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@46.158.112.195] has joined #lisp 02:30:25 Why does ECL has no asdf package? 02:30:35 * have 02:35:26 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:39:45 Oh sorry, I'm stupid. %) 02:39:55 But where is :clx package? 02:40:06 I'm trying to build stumpwm 02:40:21 n1tn4tsn0k: in CLISP, CLX is built-in 02:40:41 so (clx:open-display "" :display 0) should return an X server 02:43:26 Hm. 02:43:42 I want to build stumpwm using ecl. 02:43:54 And I see this: component :CLX not found, required by #. 02:46:32 phao [phao@187.91.142.236] has joined #lisp 02:47:21 That article "lisp as an alternative to java", is it still valid today? 02:49:03 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:14 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.80.119] has joined #lisp 02:52:51 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:43 otwierac1 [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 02:55:11 -!- otwierac1 [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Client Quit] 02:59:57 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3B50.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:24 ;-) 03:04:21 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8D249.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:04:26 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8E0D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:31 -!- zanea [~zanea@125-237-51-83.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:17:19 n1tn4tsn0k: asdf is a third party library. 03:17:32 it runs perfectly well on ECL, and on all the other implementations 03:17:46 And? 03:18:06 And this question " Why does ECL has no asdf package?" is Mu. 03:18:31 phao: lisp is a good alternative to everything else. 03:19:34 Uf.. 03:19:35 Ok. 03:20:15 Did you try (require 'asdf) or (require "asdf"). IIRC, it works in ecl. Otherwise, just fetch asdf and (load "asdf.lisp"). 03:20:39 Yes. Yes 03:20:47 I found asdf. 03:20:58 I can't find asdf-version of clx. 03:21:56 Some older systems may not have been upgraded to asdf (yet). 03:22:39 Read the doc and the source. Usually there's some file to load, or they may use the older defsystem. 03:22:48 n1tn4tsn0k: There's one on cliki, looks like. 03:23:10 There's one in quicklisp 03:23:54 oh 03:24:10 n1tn4tsn0k: cliki is the site that I'm thinking of 03:24:42 (I was offering advice in #stumpwm) 03:25:55 zanea [~zanea@125-237-51-83.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:26:36 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:26:53 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:30:32 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:33:30 joshe: I've downloaded asdf-version on clx. 03:33:48 And have made a symlink. 03:34:00 Now I have other error: 03:34:01 An error occurred during initialization: 03:34:02 Unknown keyword :MOVE-HERE. 03:34:08 How to fix? :) 03:34:30 I have no clue without more context. 03:35:27 t might be a better idea to use a CL implementation which stumpwm officially supports, it sounds like getting it running with ECL might be a bit of work. 03:36:22 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.164.236] has joined #lisp 03:36:37 :) 03:36:38 Ok. 03:36:42 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:36:44 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@46.158.112.195] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:37:21 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.164.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:40:19 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:40:26 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:36 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:43:11 -!- phao [phao@187.91.142.236] has quit [Quit: Fui embora] 03:47:25 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.80.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:10 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has joined #lisp 03:50:37 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.80.119] has joined #lisp 03:51:45 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 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[~user@121.61.45.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:09 Good morning everyone! 04:12:24 Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:09 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:24 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:17:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 04:19:09 looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:52 -!- xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.164.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:21:12 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:31 -!- looopy [~looopy@c-69-243-25-135.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:27:53 topeak [~topeak@61.149.224.162] has joined #lisp 04:30:09 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-40.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:32:46 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 04:35:38 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.30] has joined #lisp 04:39:47 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 05:07:30 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has joined #lisp 05:08:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:08:49 splittist [~splittist@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:08:54 morning 05:09:24 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: ...] 05:12:00 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-146-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:16 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:15:03 bitri [~bitri@user-12lc2ok.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 05:16:05 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.155.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:16:06 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:10 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has joined #lisp 05:20:48 Hunden [~Hunden@e180101119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:20:55 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-146-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 05:23:03 -!- bitri [~bitri@user-12lc2ok.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:34:03 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 05:35:12 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has joined #lisp 05:35:46 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:29 hello splittist 05:39:05 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:39:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:10 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:49:02 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.80.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:52 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:01:04 pdponze [~androirc@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 06:01:30 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.240] has joined #lisp 06:05:36 -!- pdponze [~androirc@144.85.121.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:08:33 jpop [~jpop@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 06:09:47 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:11:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:28 is it possible to pass lisp array to a C function that will modify it's content? 06:15:36 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has joined #lisp 06:16:11 I meant passing it directly 06:17:08 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 06:19:36 -!- anzime [~defkurtz@ip70-176-48-167.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:20:22 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-183-245.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:21:25 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814E70.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 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[~ympbyc@222-152-64-125.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:49:02 ympbyc [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:50:21 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:55:14 Hi, I was wondering why this does not work: ((function car) '(1 2)) 06:55:38 and this works: ((lambda (x) (car x)) '( 1 2)) 06:57:15 I spent three nights on Neverland Ranch when I was 13! Michael Jackson and I had so much fun cuddling in bed, climing trees, and riding gokarts. One day when we were climbing a tree, he yanked down my shorts and underoos! Then he proceeded to tap his hard 8 inch cock on my cheeks, spit in my crack, and slowly slip it in. It hurt at first, but then I got this raging woody! 06:57:54 daedric: The function (first) position works differently from the rest, it can only be a symbol or a lambda form, I think. 06:58:54 it is a weird case, it asks more work to make the first version to crash than to work (I'm writting a little lisp interpreter) 07:01:10 is it possible to directly pass lisp array to a C function that will modify it's content? 07:01:28 using cffi 07:02:01 daedric: It comes with the whole Lisp-2 thing. 07:02:17 Lisp-2 ? 07:02:28 a standard ? 07:04:05 No, it's a term for a type of Lisp. A "Lisp-N" has symbols in N different namespaces, meaning that they mean different things in different positions, which is why (for example) you can have variables and functions named the same thing in CL without much issue. 07:04:51 ho ok 07:05:06 like the scheme: Lisp-1 :) 07:05:34 but that does not explain my issue since the first argument is always evaluated 07:05:48 I should take a look at the specification 07:06:04 It's not evaluated in the same way as the arguments. Spec's probably a good idea. 07:06:58 Looks like it's in CLHS 3.1.2.1.2 or so. 07:07:08 :) write a lisp interpreter is not as easy as I thought :) 07:07:09 ok 07:07:11 thanks 07:08:19 You might like "Lisp in Small Pieces", if you can find it. 07:09:21 thanks, I'm on the Paul Graham one currently 07:14:47 I spent three nights on Neverland Ranch when I was 13! Michael Jackson and I had so much fun cuddling in bed, climing trees, and riding gokarts. One day when we were climbing a tree, he yanked down my shorts and underoos! Then he proceeded to tap his hard 8 inch cock on my cheeks, spit in my crack, and slowly slip it in. It hurt at first, but then I got this raging woody! 07:14:54 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.24.109] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 07:15:29 anyway. 07:15:50 are there any known problems with postmodern in clozure-cl? 07:18:51 hrm. everything works fine until I do (use-package :postmodern); I seem to be able to use the package just fine by using (postmodern:query ...), etc 07:20:25 but any attempt to use it in ccl yields a "Using ... would cause name conflicts with symbols already present..."; this same sequence works under sbcl without problem. 07:20:31 can someone suggest how to efficiently get a lisp array from a C function? I tried the dumb way, allocating memory with foreign-alloc, creating array, and then copying all the element one by one. that made the function 100 times slower 07:21:28 penryu: In what package do you do (use-package :postmodern)? 07:22:34 -!- JigABoot [bddc374e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.220.55.78] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:23:02 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-145-83.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:23:42 beach: default repl package; *package* => "COMMON-LISP-USER" 07:24:04 penryu: That is a really bad idea, and you can't expect it to work. 07:24:32 penryu: You can't expect it to work because implementations are free to put symbols there that might (as you noticed) clash with others. 07:24:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-106-42.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:24:57 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:24:58 oh. I'm just starting, and following the postmodern tutorial, which does (use-package ...); what would a better solution be? 07:25:00 penryu: It is a bad idea, because you don't want to write your application using symbols in the cl-user package. You want to create your own. 07:26:06 penryu: So the good way of doing it, is to create your own package with defpackage, and in it, :use the CL package and the postmodern package. 07:26:42 so can I just do: (make-package :a-sandbox) (in-package a-sandbox) ? 07:27:36 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:27:44 Like I said, use defpackage, and in the defpackage form :use the CL package and the postmodern package. 07:27:59 this calls for a crash course in packages. thanks, beach. 07:28:21 penryu: Or you can look at pretty much any application for examples. 07:28:49 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:29:21 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:29:24 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:30:08 penryu: (defpackage #:my-package (:use #:cl #:postmodern)) (in-package #:my-package) 07:30:31 why #: ? 07:30:46 and not just : 07:31:19 jpop: That notation creates an uninterned symbol, so does not "pollute" the keyword package with unneeded symbols. 07:33:57 beach: w00t! it's working. thanks! 07:34:35 the more I thought about it, the more I realized it was only a namespace conflict; I'm only about 2-3 hours into cl. 07:41:48 penryu: Perhaps it is a bit hefty to start with postmodern if you need to learn the basics of CL. It might be better to read a book such as PCL. 07:42:50 I'm reading PCL, actually. second chapter. but I got distracted by a work project using pg, and wanted to play with connecting to pg from cl. 07:43:04 it's my fault, really, skipping ahead. 07:47:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49:50 I mixed approach might be good. Do a bit PCL, then a real project a bit. 07:50:39 sounds like a good way to be increasingly offended by my own code every time I look at it. :) 07:51:17 but yeah. that's what I tend to do when learning a new language. 07:51:40 That's hard to avoid. It shows that you are making progress. It is still happening to me after more than 10 years of CL. 07:51:57 true. 07:52:17 iac, I appreciate the assistance. 07:53:09 most of what I know about lisp I picked up from playing with scheme and elisp; both of which are similar enough to get really frustrated. 07:56:06 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02:58 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has joined #lisp 08:03:08 csdwifi [~carl@76.177.215.56] has joined #lisp 08:05:18 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082BE65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:09 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BB78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:07:10 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has joined #lisp 08:09:18 empt [~empt@112.1.10.76] has joined #lisp 08:10:08 -!- empt [~empt@112.1.10.76] has left #lisp 08:15:50 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 08:16:31 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:18:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:21:15 delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has joined #lisp 08:26:12 plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-28-65.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:31:31 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 08:40:21 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:41:28 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.240] has joined #lisp 08:44:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.71] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 08:45:36 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-146-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:45:38 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:45:42 -!- jpop [~jpop@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 08:47:56 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-39-76.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:59:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-4-166.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:04:50 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-193-212.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:05:37 -!- altctrldel [~windows7@64.291.511.08.ilec.adsl2.net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:07:09 altctrldel [~windows7@64.291.511.08.ilec.adsl2.net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:08:58 leo2007 [~leo@th041130.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has joined #lisp 09:17:51 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:18:14 daedric: the point is that in CL, the function in an application IS NOT evaluated. 09:19:53 hi 09:20:04 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:10 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:20:19 daedric: In (f ...) the compiler generates a direct call to the function named f. In ((lambda ...) ...) the compiler generates a direct call to the anonymous function. 09:20:21 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.217.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:20:28 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:02 -!- alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:27:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-47-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:27:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-47-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:27:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:42:26 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.244.45] has joined #lisp 09:51:47 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 09:57:58 _pw_ [7d276c08@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.39.108.8] has joined #lisp 10:01:01 pdponze [~androirc@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 10:04:24 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:04:24 -!- pdponze [~androirc@144.85.121.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:54 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754845.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:01 -!- _pw_ [7d276c08@gateway/web/freenode/ip.125.39.108.8] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:15:18 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.244.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:09 plage` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-105-181.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:16:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.240.184] has joined #lisp 10:17:47 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D3EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:06 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-28-65.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:18:15 -!- plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-28-65.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:20:24 Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 10:27:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:34:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:46:53 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 10:48:23 -!- plage` is now known as plage 10:54:41 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 10:54:41 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 10:54:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:54:57 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 10:58:05 pnq [~nick@172.162.36.233] has joined #lisp 10:58:22 jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has joined #lisp 10:59:24 H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC8FEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:33 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 11:03:51 -!- H4ns` [~user@p4FFC9DBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:17:13 kai___ [~kai@f052098081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:17:21 -!- kai___ is now known as wetnosed 11:19:25 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.24.109] has joined #lisp 11:25:34 -!- plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-105-181.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:28:25 -!- topeak [~topeak@61.149.224.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:40:25 c0mrade_ [c0mrade_@63.216.105.24] has joined #lisp 11:40:38 WriteLn.Console("Hello"); 11:41:37 Looks somewhat arse about face. 11:47:12 How to access SMM mode? 11:47:51 c0mrade_: ... I think you're in wrog channel 11:47:55 *wrong 11:48:37 DLL infection (file replacement)  new DLL (NTDLL.DLL for e.g.) is provided with some functions patched (like ZwQuerySystemInformation). 11:48:58 You *think*. And that's enough for me. 11:49:03 ... is it a markov chain bot or what? 11:49:42 I don't know. 11:49:53 I mean how can a bot recogize that it's a bot? 11:50:11 I might be a bot. But how can I be sure of that? 11:50:36 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:53:06 So for that reason. 11:53:18 I think the best rootkit would be the kernel rootkit. 11:54:00 ok, so it's not necessarily a markov chain. Still, please don't spam a programming language channel with OS security musings when no-one is talking about it (occassional OT happens, but this looks plain malicious...) 11:54:52 Spam? 11:55:14 Well I didn't see myself typing Microsoft or Linux or Whatever. 11:56:22 But I think the IDT hooking in order to change the execution path of some kernel services.There are many such pointers, for examplep ServiceDescriptorTablein_KTHREAD 11:56:22 object. 11:56:30 d2biG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 11:56:42 -!- dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57:25 Kernel data manipulation. Instead of changing kernel code (or execution path), the idea here is to just unlink the process from the PsActiveProcessLinkHead list. 11:57:51 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:10 But more about API Hooking. 11:59:12 It's a process where you modify bytes in a library with API functions like kernel32.dll and put a JMP instruction the executes your code first. Which will execute it along side with the Operating System code. 11:59:57 My question here. 12:00:11 This technique is Easily detectable by file system integrity checkers. 12:00:40 So how to hide the modification and make it polymorphic so that it will still work as usuall? 12:01:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:04:52 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:04:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:05:53 val601 [~val@host102-152-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:11:26 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 12:11:26 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 12:11:26 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:11:31 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:12:13 loading Elephant gives me "no symbol named "SLOT-DEFINITION-READER-FUNCTION" in "SB-PCL". I'm using SBCL on OS X. 12:13:20 Kenjin: I'd try with closer-mop. Perhaps Elephant can use it when present. Otherwise, patch it. 12:13:36 -!- ympbyc [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:15:17 but is this a known issue? 12:15:28 I don't know Elephant, never tried it. 12:16:05 So right now, you're our local expert on Elephant. 12:17:11 pjb: what do you use for persistence? 12:17:19 add^_ [~add^_^@h34n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:31 Kenjin: fwiw, i use bknr.datastore or something custom 12:17:56 so? 12:18:07 Kenjin: I don't have a lot of persistence needs. Otherwise, I developed a custom mechanism, for a specific use. 12:18:36 Posterdati: so what? 12:18:42 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754845.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:45 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:21:03 pjb: I see. I just need to insert some data to a mysql db. 12:23:13 madnificent: all 12:31:48 ikki [~ikki@189.247.0.193] has joined #lisp 12:34:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:35:38 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.90.56] has joined #lisp 12:38:06 -!- prip [~foo@host250-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:34 prip [~foo@host250-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:38:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:41:51 -!- pnq [~nick@172.162.36.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:04 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 12:50:18 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:04 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|fkn_away_nick 12:51:14 -!- ec|fkn_away_nick is now known as elliottcable 12:52:11 I've been stuck on this for hours. I can't get any callbacks to work in CLIM. http://paste.lisp.org/display/123313 What is wrong with this code? Seems good by the spec. 12:54:59 initvalues do not work on text-field - I am under the conclusion that a text-field cannot have an initial text value, and when callback is activated, it says that it needs to args, which I have switched between gadget and gadget-id several times. 12:55:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@134.61.90.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:55 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:56:45 -!- c0mrade_ [c0mrade_@63.216.105.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:57:36 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:02:33 c0mrade_ [c0mrade_@63.216.109.209] has joined #lisp 13:02:37 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-24-71.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:02:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:04:24 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:05:02 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:05:41 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-132-160.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:43 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:18:06 -!- val601 [~val@host102-152-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:18:21 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:24:27 rednum [~user@cpc1-walt9-0-0-cust744.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:37 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.240] has joined #lisp 13:24:58 pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:19 It seems McCLIM has some bugs on Mac OS X and sbcl - or something. 13:25:43 I make a text-editor or text-field pane and set :editable p as nil, and it will let me delete and add text. 13:26:27 Maybe I am missing something, but the manual (user-guide spec) states that it should not be able to edit any text at all. 13:29:09 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:35:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:45:10 I guess it is a bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/mcclim/+bug/608280 13:46:16 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.240] has joined #lisp 13:46:28 scrimohsin [dink@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 13:46:43 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:49:17 agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-137-212.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:49:47 -!- delian66 [~quassel@84.252.14.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:16 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-47-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:57:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-47-224.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:57:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:59:20 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-203-78.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:59:51 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.163.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:01:22 carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.85] has joined #lisp 14:03:34 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:06:08 where can I find a documentation for common lisp indentation rules in emacs ? 14:06:25 typically, indentation changes depending of the first symbol of a form 14:06:38 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-183-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:06:38 if I use (define-instance (...) 14:06:51 the rest of the form is indented at the second opening parenthesis 14:06:59 if I use (definstance (...) 14:07:06 the rest is indented at 4 characters 14:07:19 If you're using slime, it does it dynamically, lookup up for the definition of the operaetor in the implementation. 14:07:58 both define-instance and definstance are macros I wrote 14:08:09 so it may take decisions based solely on the name of the first symbol 14:08:25 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-183-245.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:08:27 If not, then the usual lisp indent function looks up the lisp-indent-function or common-lisp-indent-function property of the operator symbol, and if none found, will indent as a function. 14:08:50 C-h f lisp-indent-function RET for details. 14:09:17 With lisp-indent, yes. With slime it looks up the definition in the implementation. 14:09:33 You can see the difference in slime, before and after you've defined the macro... 14:09:49 ah, perfect 14:10:32 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-3-197.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:10:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754845.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:53 doesn't seem very configurable to me 14:12:05 thank you, I learned something :) 14:13:00 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:13:51 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-24-71.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:55 -!- pislocide [~PC@ip72-213-141-195.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:15:16 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 14:17:45 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7CE76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:30 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C16D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:21:22 -!- Euthydemus 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quit [Client Quit] 15:28:11 'morning 15:32:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 15:33:43 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:59 fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 15:40:12 urandom__ [~user@p548A3AFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:36 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:42:32 'afternoon 15:43:42 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 15:45:01 -!- leo2007 [~leo@th041130.ip.tsinghua.edu.cn] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 15:47:44 -!- wetnosed [~kai@f052098081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:47:56 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:01 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3AFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:48:12 urandom__ [~user@p548A4792.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:25 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-5-236.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:49:34 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-90-111.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:52:55 Could someone help me with figuring out how to use the transpose keywords in GSLL's matrix-product function? thanks 15:53:06 wetnosed [~kai@e179023048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:54:42 alvis_ [~alvis@tx-71-54-103-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:28 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 16:07:05 -!- c0mrade_ [c0mrade_@63.216.109.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:32 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:49 gor[e] [~svr@ppp91-78-37-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:10:54 pnq [~nick@ACA20342.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:06 c0mrade_ [c0mrade_@178.135.20.200] has joined #lisp 16:14:13 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:15:11 jpop [~jpop@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 16:23:25 seangrove [~user@c-98-234-242-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:04 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.247.235] has joined #lisp 16:29:50 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 16:30:26 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:32:45 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.158.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:34:07 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.240.184] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:40:55 -!- gor[e] [~svr@ppp91-78-37-213.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:26 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-091-089-219-004.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:55 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.240.184] has joined #lisp 16:44:57 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-97-46.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:45:40 anzime [~defkurtz@ip70-176-48-167.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:47 Hello, I'm encoutering the error "The value NIL is not of type (MOD 1152921504606846973)" when executing this code[http://cxg.de/_bf25ac.htm]. Upon searching google, I find bug reports for sbcl. Have I _really_ run into a language bug or did I mess it up (likely, but where is the error?)? 16:47:23 inspect the call frame that results in that error 16:47:54 you've almost certainly passed NIL when you didn't mean to. 16:48:13 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-90-111.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:48:41 What does position return? 16:49:21 -!- elliottcable is now known as d57bfa72c2e4b4a4 16:49:54 -!- d57bfa72c2e4b4a4 is now known as LZ05qOyiJ0CXpo00 16:51:17 Zhivago: an integer 16:51:39 No. 16:51:52 Literacy is an essential skill. 16:51:55 bad_alloc: if you have such wrong ideas, then your programs will be wrong. 16:52:00 clhs position 16:52:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pos_p.htm 16:52:03 -!- LZ05qOyiJ0CXpo00 is now known as twtsqZOWqHlDutmM 16:52:22 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754845.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:23 read it again. What does position return? 16:54:29 "The position returned is the index within sequence[...]" i thought the index must be an integer. Can it be something else? 16:55:29 ah ok, got it, position returns nil, when tehres nothing. so no gaurantee for integers 16:55:31 otherwise nil is returned <- read it all. 16:55:34 faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:55:42 Ok, and what does elt want? 16:57:10 any number n: 0<= n < arraysize 16:57:25 I hope that you understand the error now. 16:59:39 yes. sorry for the unnecessary question. The idea was that find/position returns -1 for absent elements but as pjb. said, that idea is wrong. Thanks for the aid :) 17:00:45 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20342.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:12:49 can sb-sys:with-pinned-objects be used to directly pass an array to a C function that will modify it's content? 17:13:00 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:20 sonnym1 [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:40 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:15:41 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:29 lisp array* 17:16:49 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:26 jpop: depends on the array. 17:19:51 You can look at foreign friendly arrays (FFA) for instpiration 17:20:21 C function writes to memory pointed to by passed unsigned char * 17:21:22 I can't use plain (make-array N :element-type '\(unsigned-byte 8))? 17:21:29 -\ 17:21:40 -!- agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-137-212.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:22:25 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 17:23:56 add^_^ [~add^_^@h34n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:15 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h34n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:26:15 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 17:31:47 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h34n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:06 pnq [~nick@ACA32ED7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:25 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:35:55 mohamehg [~hashim@41.95.10.23] has joined #lisp 17:36:02 hi all 17:36:23 any one can help me on how to add asdf package to emacs lisp ? 17:38:20 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:38:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:38:47 hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:40:57 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179023048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:23 wetnosed [~kai@e179023048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:31 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:47 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:45:44 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@89.222.174.7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:07 npoektop [~npoektop@89.222.174.7] has joined #lisp 17:46:26 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-101-168.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:45 mohamehg: what do you mean asdf package to emacs lisp ? 17:49:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:52:05 -!- anzime [~defkurtz@ip70-176-48-167.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:58:45 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-203-78.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:59:20 mohamehg asdf is for common lisp not for elisp 18:09:21 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:09:48 -!- twtsqZOWqHlDutmM is now known as Du07okDjKfe0X4qF 18:11:53 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:28 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:16:30 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:16:33 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:17:46 -!- bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-091-089-219-004.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:19:35 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@89.222.174.7] has quit [Quit: npoektop] 18:27:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:31:19 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:33 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:33:48 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 18:34:42 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:36:03 isohead [~isohead@82-128-198-170.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:36:20 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.35] has joined #lisp 18:40:46 kennyd : then there is no way to use it with emacs lisp ? 18:40:50 -!- isohead [~isohead@82-128-198-170.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 18:41:30 not directly with emacs lisp, there cl for elisp which you load 18:42:05 there's no packages covering everything between elisp and cl 1:1 18:42:22 and you don't use .asdf files with elisp directly 18:42:39 instead you use them in your cl interpreters config files 18:42:49 and load .asdf packages there 18:42:58 then you start the interpreters via emacs 18:43:22 homie : can you elaborate ? 18:43:35 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:39 no, you have to read up on the manuals 18:43:57 or ask what you don't get 18:44:06 specifically 18:44:09 ok, can you share a link or a document ? 18:44:30 ah ok , asdf.org i think it is where the documentation is 18:44:45 thanks , appreciated 18:44:55 you should go there and read first the intro stuff maybe 18:46:13 I'm afraid this is not the right link 18:46:49 varjag [~eugene@21.59.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:47:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:47:49 http://common-lisp.net/~mmommer/asdf-howto.shtml 18:48:19 http://www.cliki.net/asdf 18:48:51 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ 18:49:31 and last but not least maybe http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html 18:51:15 quizme [~quizme@c-24-5-189-239.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:17 hi 18:51:34 now these are working , thanks homie 18:51:37 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:54 np,yw 18:52:15 you use asdf for getting packages into your lisp systems (which are common-lisp) 18:52:21 emacs lisp does nothing todo with asdf 18:52:40 i'm trying to write a depth-first cross-product of variable length arrays of arrays in order to join them in every way possible. depth first so that i can stop after MAX number of tuples. 18:52:41 you can use then slime etc...to start your common-lisp interpreters in emacs 18:52:44 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:00 you still use asdf in your common-lisp interpreters in emacs to get packages with asdf 18:53:01 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-140-162.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:08 or better use quicklisp 18:53:13 i think i want to do it recursively, can somebody help me out with this 18:53:15 a wrapper around asdf 18:53:21 i've been thinking aobut this for hours 18:53:40 well not hours, but a long ass time 18:54:28 -!- Du07okDjKfe0X4qF is now known as G0EleimMoNF4WDUO 18:56:21 quizme, Gotta run, but define a mapping function that takes a list of lists and a prefix, then append elements from the first of the lists to the end of the prefix and pop from the lists and recurse. 18:56:52 rswarbrick thanks lemme meditate on that 18:57:03 mohamehg: there's emacs-cl which is a CL implementation written in emacs lisp. It would be nice if ASDF would work on emacs-cl (it's probably not the case now). If you could improve emacs-cl and adapt asdf to make them work together, then we could use ASDF to load Common Lisp code in emacs with emacs-cl. 18:57:56 quizme, Er, so if you're mapping on (0 1) (2 3) (4 5), a call might be (foo '(0) '((2 3) (4 5))), which would then call (foo '(0 2) '((4 5))) first... 18:58:21 (and then of course you bottom out when there are no more remaining sequences 18:58:22 ) 18:58:43 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-200-232.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:58:56 rswarbrick thanks a lot. lemme think about that 18:59:07 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:42 mohamehg: then, it should be possible to define asdf operations to load .el files instead of .lisp files, and therefore we would be able to load emacs lisp files, with their dependencies in emacs, using emacs-cl and asdf. 19:02:43 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 19:03:11 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:06:39 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:08:18 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA32ED7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:08:23 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-146.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:10:02 doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:11 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-97-46.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:39 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-183-245.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:53 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-160-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:14 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-160-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:31 -!- mohamehg [~hashim@41.95.10.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:09 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-160-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:40 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-200-232.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:23:38 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:24:04 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-33-196.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:28:02 HG` [~HG@p579F7248.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-33-196.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:36:09 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-057-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:39:15 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-178-006-211-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 19:39:33 -!- G0EleimMoNF4WDUO is now known as lx5daVLzXAYWRFzQ 19:40:24 srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:24 -!- srid [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:40:24 srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 19:44:32 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.240.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:45:32 lispm [~lispm@g224123248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.0.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:48:36 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-034-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:55 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224123248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:08 lispm [~lispm@g224123248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:38 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-32.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:52:53 pnq [~nick@ACA43803.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:59 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-37-125.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:55:32 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-232-32.w90-54.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:43 tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:55:51 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-11-210.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:58:51 hi, in a function i have an flet, i define a function this way, that id like to call with funcall, later in that function, when i do this in the repl, cl says that the function i defined with flet is UNDEFINED, when i compile the function, i get a note, that sbcl deleted the function i defined with flet. im wondering is there a way so that i can keep that function, from deletion? 20:00:05 Paste your code? 20:00:13 a moment 20:00:38 mcstar: the function you define in flet only exists within the scope of the flet 20:00:52 mcstar: if you want to call it elsewhere, you'll have to use defun 20:01:11 http://paste.lisp.org/+2N5L 20:01:21 You could return the function from the flet. 20:01:25 sure, i call it within the flet 20:01:42 but i want to be able to call it with funcall 20:01:50 because i get the function name from somewhere else 20:01:51 mcstar: oh. symbol-function returns the function globally bound to the symbol 20:02:03 ah, ok 20:02:08 mcstar: you can still (funcall 'infun) 20:02:23 Do (function infun) or just #'infun or that. 20:02:28 same thing happens 20:02:33 (funcall #'infun) 20:02:36 sorry 20:03:01 -!- csdwifi [~carl@76.177.215.56] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 20:03:02 dlowe: that works 20:03:26 but i thought #' is short for symbol-function 20:03:33 mcstar: it's short for function 20:04:31 yeah, i should have know that :S 20:04:34 known 20:04:52 well, thx guys 20:08:17 You cannot call it with (funcall 'infun) or (funcall (symbol-function 'infun)) because both are equivalent and try to call the global function named infun (which is undefined). 20:08:20 ska [~ska@ppp-58-8-203-78.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:08:46 -!- ska is now known as Guest27555 20:10:30 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-238-197.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:11:41 hi pjb, apparently i cant use (funcall (function argument)), where argument is like: (defun myfun(argument)(flet ((afunction..... 20:12:16 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-034-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:12:39 its certainly a noobs mistake, but then how would you call a function, defined inside another(myfun) that gets the name/symbol as argument? 20:13:04 (funcall argument)? 20:13:37 -!- Guest27555 [~ska@ppp-58-8-203-78.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:13:37 the argumnt isnt a function 20:13:52 the function is defined within myfun as i wrote previously 20:13:57 You're inconsistent. 20:14:04 i wonder, an assco-list would work 20:14:10 Try to show real code samples. 20:14:15 ok 20:15:01 Local functions are defined in local scope. You cannot have access to the local functions thru their name, as little as you can have access to local variables thru their name. 20:15:35 The only thing you can do, is to return the object (be it a function or something else), or store it somewhere, to be used from the outside of the local scope. 20:16:18 (defun f (x) (flet ((sum (y) (+ x y))) (function sum))) (funcall (f 42) 24) --> 66 20:17:12 (defun g (x) (let ((double (+ x x))) double)) (cons (g 42) 24) --> (84 . 24) ; it's the same. 20:18:44 http://paste.lisp.org/+2N5M 20:18:49 i want this functionality 20:19:42 You have it. 20:19:48 :( 20:20:05 so theres no more elegant way of doing this? 20:20:48 Well, one problem with your function, is that you're consing a big a-list, to select just one function. 20:21:06 And not only select it, but call it! 20:22:08 ok, so what would you do? 20:22:35 i could store the a-list in a closure 20:22:38 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123322 20:22:59 And if you only print in all case, I'd even put the print outside of the case. 20:23:47 no actually, a collection of other function calls would go inside a fun1, fun2... 20:24:30 i know i dont yet understand symbols 20:24:49 but i thought theres a way to do it with only flet/funcall 20:25:02 I don't understand what you want. 20:25:49 a bad implementation would be i guess, is that i get the name of the function i want to call in a string, as an argument 20:26:23 and then to call the function that is asscociated with that symbol, made from that string 20:26:51 the functionality would be exactly like in yours/mine 20:27:15 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA43803.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:27:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:27:47 hm 20:28:00 I seem to recall there being some sort of alternative/successor to Lispbox for windows 20:28:17 but I can't remember what it was called or find it; anyone have any suggestions? 20:29:21 mcstar: well, you can use a CASE, or an a-list or a hash-table, depending on the other requirements. 20:29:39 (defun call-by-name (name) (funcall (get-function-named name))) 20:29:50 I don't see what's the problem. 20:30:23 pjb: thats ok too, i just my first try was with flet 20:30:31 (defun get-function-named (name) (or (cdr (assoc name *fun-map*)) (error "No function named ~A" name))) 20:30:33 i->it's 20:30:39 (defun get-function-named (name) (or (gethash name *fun-map*) (error "No function named ~A" name))) 20:31:07 (defun get-function-named (name) (ecase name (n1 (function n1)) (n2 (function n2)) ...)) 20:31:12 yeah, ok :) 20:31:18 i get these 20:31:21 nvm, found it googling "like lispbox" 20:31:22 lisp cabinet 20:31:32 It doesn't matter if n1 or n2 is local or global, as long as you use (function n1). 20:32:42 But it's rather strange to want a local function, if you are able to call it from a global or even an external scope. 20:35:41 these little functions form a state-machine, they represent states, and the content of them provides transitions between sattes 20:36:10 -!- scharan is now known as scharan_ 20:36:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:42 -!- scharan_ is now known as scharan 20:37:43 ok. 20:38:24 So it's not (call-by-name name), it's (process-event state-machine event). 20:38:47 -!- lx5daVLzXAYWRFzQ is now known as r3wPYEWNrKkAPAVO 20:41:12 i didnt want to go into details, the name of the transition-function is the argument to a caller, like process-event 20:41:38 and its the same name as the machione is in 20:43:46 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224123248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 20:45:01 -!- foocraft [~ewanas@78.101.149.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:45:21 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:46:52 The problem is that if you represent the state machine as a closure, you have to export the transitions function individually. You store them in a map, ok, but this is not a clear abstraction of the state machine. It would be better to use an object here. so that you could manipulate the state machines as they are. 20:47:33 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-203-149.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:48:02 -!- r3wPYEWNrKkAPAVO is now known as elliottcable 20:49:10 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:49:15 peterhil` [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:49:20 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 20:51:24 foocraft [~ewanas@89.211.137.241] has joined #lisp 20:53:29 superflit [~superflit@71-33-154-186.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:39 -!- fourier` [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:46 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-213-243.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:59:52 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-160-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:08:26 -!- varjag [~eugene@21.59.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:09:09 rachekhan [~Rachekhan@188.19.151.30] has joined #lisp 21:09:36 -!- rachekhan [~Rachekhan@188.19.151.30] has left #lisp 21:09:42 rachekhan [~Rachekhan@188.19.151.30] has joined #lisp 21:09:59 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has joined #lisp 21:10:23 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:05 dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has joined #lisp 21:15:45 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:51 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-154-186.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:16:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-67-180-32-11.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:32 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:21:51 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:04 superflit [~superflit@71-208-207-162.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:40 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:01 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:46 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:38 -!- rachekhan [~Rachekhan@188.19.151.30] has left #lisp 21:38:50 -!- srid [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:39:04 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-173-60.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:41:09 how can I list all the asdf packages currently loaded? 21:41:20 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-170-107.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:21 zfx [~zfx@host86-133-8-97.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:21 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-133-8-97.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:41:21 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 21:41:38 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:42:54 tempire_: (asdf:map-systems #'print)? 21:43:04 lanthan__ [~ze@p54B7C82C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:26 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7CE76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:45:56 excellent, thanks 21:47:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-213-243.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:48:06 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 21:48:11 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-207-162.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:48:15 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:48:30 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-213-243.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:50:17 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:24 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:52:28 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:34 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:52:45 ack_syn [~Jedi@unaffiliated/ackz0r] has joined #lisp 21:53:05 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 21:53:06 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-145-83.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:11 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:53:22 please can someone give me a dummy documentation about lisp? I need to do some arithmetic calculus 21:54:31 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:36 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:54:41 superflit [~superflit@71-208-215-40.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:33 timack [~tim@hlfx62-2a-218.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 21:59:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-213-243.w2-8.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:01:46 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7248.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:53 -!- wetnosed [~kai@e179023048.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:58 fantazo_ [~fantazo@91-115-171-164.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:02:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 22:02:47 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-215-40.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:03:04 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:30 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx62-2a-218.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03:39 jpop: there's also https://gitorious.org/iolib/static-vectors 22:05:23 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-238-197.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:06 timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-216.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:09:20 superflit [~superflit@71-208-219-124.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:39 pnq [~nick@ACA2886E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:40 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:16:38 please? 22:16:44 pnq: you could help me 22:16:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-208.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:57 ack_syn: sincerely doubt it 22:16:58 I need some doc to work with arithmetic in lisp 22:17:02 pnq: why? 22:17:06 that's too simple 22:17:54 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.247.235] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:19:49 ack_syn: you asked your question before pnq joined, maybe he didnt read it? 22:21:34 ack_syn: there are too many tutorials you can find, if you use google 22:21:42 the only problem is which one to choose 22:22:25 mcstar: I repeated 22:22:39 mcstar: yes, that's why I am here asking 22:22:44 yeah, i see now 22:22:49 maybe you know a good one 22:23:13 im not sure if it is beneficial to go with the simplest one 22:23:37 hum, give me an url of what you consider better mcstar 22:23:43 what do you mean by "arithmetic"? 22:23:52 the 4 basic operations? 22:25:24 ack_syn: and keep in mind, that Lisp has many dialects 22:26:36 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:28:17 ack_syn: would you be so kind to answer my question, and say which dialect youre considering? 22:30:09 ack_syn: read a book. You'll see how to do arithmetic early enough. 22:31:08 anyway, if you want to use common lisp, i found this 3 parter very useful in the beginning http://www.cs.gmu.edu/~sean/lisp/LispTutorial.html 22:40:37 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4792.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:40 when accessing C api from lisp do you find yourself writing wrapper functions in C that does all the, and then just importing those functions in lisp? or do you do everything in lisp 22:44:03 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:31 for example I'm trying to take screenshot of a window. to do it all in lisp I'd have to define a couple of C structures and a couple of functions before I can even get started. it seems it would be less painful to write a C wrapper function that does all the work, and then importing just that function 22:47:39 both are viable, but it's more common to wrap C libraries via the FFI and build everything else in lisp. 22:48:24 been trying to do that, but I find myself frustrated having to constantly define C types, functions and constants 22:49:15 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@94.233.248.148] has joined #lisp 22:49:21 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-58-246-74.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:29 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-193-212.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:50:07 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.196.85] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 22:50:28 you only have to define what you'd use. If there's a lot of it, there are grovellers that exploit your C compiler to derive definitions 22:50:33 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:51:18 you mean constant definitions? #define's 22:51:59 or can it extract everything, including function and structure definitions 22:52:23 ympbyc [~ympbyc@122-57-176-139.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:52:31 pkhuong: very nice, didint know about that 22:52:59 I'm feeling like my code is ugly: :( http://www.pastie.org/2228808 22:53:18 jpop: it'll grab types, enums, etc. and variables for you. 22:53:49 sounds good, can you recommend me one 22:54:01 the one that comes with cffi, if you use cffi. 22:54:14 I'm using it I didn't know it comes with one 22:54:30 I'll check manual 22:54:48 There's some stuff with SWIG, iirc. 22:55:29 How to use SLIME from emacs? I've `cvs`ed slime from its official site, added to ~/.emacs what said in slime's README file. Do not keybindings like C-c C-z should appear in emacs themselves?? 22:56:02 M-x slime 22:56:07 did you run it? 22:56:39 .) 22:56:45 * No 22:57:22 (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) 22:57:29 dont forget to add a line like this 22:57:49 I've added just (slime-setup) 22:58:07 i believe that first i only had the inferior-lisp buffer 22:58:49 and this line(or another variant) brings up the slime-repl 22:58:53 Filesystem error with pathname #P"/usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank-loader.lisp". 22:59:26 It's after M-x slime. 23:03:02 Why is it trying to find swank-loader in /usr/share/common-lisp? 23:03:20 I've specified other path in ~/.emacs 23:03:35 (add-to-list 'load-path "~/src/slime/") 23:04:15 mcstar: hey. 23:04:24 yes? 23:04:25 Are you there? :) 23:04:30 i am 23:04:32 Why is it trying to find swank-loader in /usr/share/common-lisp? 23:04:34 I've specified other path in ~/.emacs 23:04:41 (add-to-list 'load-path "~/src/slime/") 23:04:41 i read that :) 23:04:49 i just dont have anything intelligent to say yet 23:04:55 :( 23:05:27 Find some intelligent to say, please. :) 23:05:51 (require 'slime) needs to go after add-to-list 23:05:56 is that so? 23:06:00 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:06:21 Yes/ 23:06:25 . 23:07:17 http://sprunge.us/OeEg 23:07:40 That's whole my ~/.emacs 23:08:00 dralston [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:57 n1tn4tsn0k: You have your slime downloaded to "~/src/slime"? 23:11:11 It has the lisp files in it and not ina subdir? 23:11:47 Also see: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Setup-Tuning.html#Setup-Tuning 23:12:01 If you want to use multiple Lisp impls 23:12:45 I'm just making a HomeBrew (a Mac OS X package manager) Formula for slime... almost done... :-) 23:13:17 03:10 < peterhil> n1tn4tsn0k: You have your slime downloaded to "~/src/slime"? 23:13:18 Yes. 23:13:22 03:11 < peterhil> It has the lisp files in it and not ina subdir? 23:13:23 Yes. 23:15:06 n1tn4tsn0k: can you load swank otherwise? 23:17:46 Does Emacs Lisp expand ~ ? 23:17:47 n1tn4tsn0k: the cl implementation needs asdf access to the same versio of swank that your slime comes from 23:18:05 its ok i have ~ in my config 23:19:34 To clarify: Swank comes with SLIME and it is the Common Lisp side of SLIME (the other being the Emacs Lisp side) 23:19:59 mcstar: How should I try to load it? 23:19:59 I don't understand - that config should work. 23:20:07 (require 'swank) ? 23:20:25 n1tn4tsn0k: Try "emacs --debug-init" from shell 23:20:55 (require :asdf) (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'swank) 23:21:08 peterhil: and? 23:21:11 You can also visit your config from Emacs and do C-X C-E on the end of each expression 23:21:35 but surely, it wont load, if you didnt add ~/src/slime to asdf's *&entral-registry* 23:21:38 Just thought if --debug-init would point out some problem -- apparently it doesn't 23:22:44 It doesn't. 23:22:51 mcstar: one sec. 23:23:40 > (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'swank) 23:23:40 component "swank" not found 23:24:02 ecl works for me with slime 23:24:13 Hm.. 23:24:15 yeah, thats bad 23:24:21 One thing. 23:24:41 just add ~/src/slime to asdf:*central-registry* 23:24:57 ecl must have an initialization file where you can put this 23:25:32 Before cvs`ing slime source from off. site, I installed it with apt-get (I use debian). But I've removed it. Maybe it has a negative effect? 23:25:56 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-219-124.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:26:11 or, better yet, add it to your system definitions in ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ 23:27:12 probably ecl is still looking for the ld swank, since you havent specified the new location 23:27:24 im quite sure if you follow what i said, it will solve your problem 23:27:29 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:57 I don't know how to do it. :) 23:28:10 I have no ~/.config/common-lisp 23:28:22 mkdir -p ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d 23:28:27 cd ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d 23:29:06 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has joined #lisp 23:29:09 Done. And? 23:29:12 echo "(:directory "/home/user/src/slime")" > swank.conf 23:29:18 Ok. 23:29:31 Can I use ~ ? 23:29:37 ~/ser/slime 23:29:43 sorry, pls escape those second "'s 23:29:53 Ok. 23:30:10 echo "(:directory \"~/src/slime\")" > swank.conf 23:30:14 or just use an editor :) 23:30:48 So, can I use ~ instead of /home/nitnatsnok ?? 23:30:53 why? 23:31:08 probably, but use full path for sure 23:31:09 Hm.. Portability? :) 23:31:38 Huh.) Stupid idea, sorry. :) 23:31:55 superflit [~superflit@71-33-154-159.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:49 Problem is not solved by this way. :(( 23:33:46 hm 23:34:37 lets try this way: (require :asdf) (push #P"/home/user/src/slime" asdf:*central-registry*) 23:34:51 and then the usual asdf:oos 23:35:04 One moment. 23:35:39 > (push #P"/home/user/src/slime" asdf:*central-registry*) 23:35:39 (#P"/home/user/src/slime" *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*) 23:35:39 > (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'swank) 23:35:40 component "swank" not found 23:35:48 Sorry for flood. :) 23:36:02 Oops. :))))) 23:36:05 /home/user 23:36:10 :) 23:38:52 Same error. :( 23:40:44 hm 23:40:52 it works for me whichever way 23:41:53 (#P"/home/nitnatsnok/src/slime" *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*) 23:42:10 Current value of asdf:*central-registry 23:43:06 can you paste me an ls -l ~/src/slime/ ? 23:43:11 to pastebin of course 23:43:22 (or some other bin) 23:47:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:19 rednum` [~user@cpc1-walt9-0-0-cust744.13-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:34 mcstar: ok, moment 23:49:02 http://sprunge.us/MYBd 23:49:59 hm 23:50:03 where is the rest? 23:50:11 i was interested in the file sizes too 23:50:20 Ah ok. :) 23:50:28 are you sure, it downloaded ok? 23:50:37 im not familiar with cvs.. 23:50:49 http://sprunge.us/YSQS 23:52:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A14D5.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:52:01 seems alright 23:55:46 add a trailing slash to the pathname. 23:56:04 #p"/home/whatever/src/slime/" is significantly different from #p".../slime" 23:56:56 ah, sry, i pasted without / 23:59:42 Same error. 23:59:58 Xach: but i dont understand why it didnt work when he used (:directory "/path")