00:07:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:08:55 -!- pferor` [~user@201.212.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:07 pferor`` [~user@201.212.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 00:09:29 rosario_ [~rosario@p4FCDC9A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:35 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:17 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:13:09 -!- rosario [~rosario@p57967598.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:13:35 -!- rosario_ is now known as rosario 00:18:03 -!- bhaskara` [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:20:20 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:51 Xach: http://charliepark.org/slopegraphs/ might be interesting to you - the "speed per dollar" graphs reminded me of your box office scores 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[~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:26:05 -!- phadthai_ is now known as phadthai 01:26:27 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 01:28:14 kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.98] has joined #lisp 01:28:45 -!- zmv_ [~Telefonic@187.34.55.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:32:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216.239.45.98] has quit [Client Quit] 01:36:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:55 sellout-1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:41:55 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:48 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 01:43:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 01:44:10 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:44:42 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:14 neaer [~adskjf@118.39.114.41] has joined #lisp 01:52:25 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:06:54 Good morning everyone! 02:12:13 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:05 -!- nixfreak [~nixfreak@mailserver.dayport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:16:07 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.50] has joined #lisp 02:19:07 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:21:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:23:38 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-248-40.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:24:27 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:24:39 tenawa [~user@adsl-76-216-106-81.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:30 morning 02:26:45 -!- asmer [~asmer@85-90-197-63.adsl.sta.kh.velton.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:19 Hello RwarDoome. I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 02:32:34 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:45 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:01 Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 02:53:34 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:09:32 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.247.54] has joined #lisp 03:20:06 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:51 beach: sorta I change nicks/ips often 03:31:01 Avoiding angry mobs? 03:32:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-acmftenjzewlvwva] has joined #lisp 03:32:49 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cjszvbgvluavijji] has joined #lisp 03:36:59 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:07 * 03:37:25 -!- pjb is now known as Guest4214 03:38:18 -!- Guest4214 is now known as pjb` 03:39:04 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 03:39:07 nope just like to change personas 03:39:13 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 03:39:31 you can always tell im me though by the bad spelling 03:40:56 *RwarDoome* puts on tophat 03:44:20 -!- spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cjszvbgvluavijji] has left #lisp 03:45:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-acmftenjzewlvwva] has left #lisp 03:46:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mlmwkqitmhxinmft] has joined #lisp 03:46:48 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 03:47:40 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:22 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 03:53:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:54:28 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:45 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-66-148-217.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:00:14 -!- Hunden 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05:54:15 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:54:23 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.123.203] has joined #lisp 05:55:54 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:11 -!- sellout-1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:31 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:57:42 forest [~user@99.162.253.149] has joined #lisp 05:58:04 hello lispers 05:58:28 -!- forest [~user@99.162.253.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:23 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-66-148-217.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:05:39 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-7-148.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 06:07:15 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@175.40.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:10:17 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:14:03 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has joined #lisp 06:17:04 fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 06:23:02 ehu` [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has joined #lisp 06:24:09 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:24:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:26:33 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has joined #lisp 06:27:45 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:28:54 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:53 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has joined #lisp 06:30:53 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:7a2b:cbff:fed0:c11c] has quit [Changing host] 06:30:53 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:54:02 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 06:59:17 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:03:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:11:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:11:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 07:11:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:14:27 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-121.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:33 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-119-112.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:18:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:19 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has joined #lisp 07:23:17 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:25:09 cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.99.45] has joined #lisp 07:36:04 -!- nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev_] 07:36:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-152-64.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:37:35 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:39:29 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:47 Hello. 07:42:51 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 07:45:22 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-ldjgaoavgssrnxjq] has joined #lisp 07:48:22 Pathin [~root@gladsheim.nullbytestudios.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:45 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:52:20 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-61-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:52:21 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-61-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:52:21 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:54:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:54:19 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:54:20 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 07:54:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 07:54:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:54:41 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:57:32 I'm trying to write my own font-lock definitons. 07:58:07 kisp [~user@e178187217.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:58:09 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:29 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:58:31 Currently constants names are hilighted while defining using (defconstatn +foo+ bar). 07:58:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:58:50 But I want to hilihght with the same font-lock-face every +foo+ in code. 07:58:52 But. 07:58:59 How to get name of this font-face-lock? 08:00:09 Guthur [c0c1f50f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.15] has joined #lisp 08:01:12 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:02:19 markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-162-93.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:28 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:17 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-120-131.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:17 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-120-131.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:04:17 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:05:32 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-ldjgaoavgssrnxjq] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:05:53 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-jqwpjyjfcgzygmhw] has joined #lisp 08:13:16 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:18:09 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-060-251.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:23:01 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:23:14 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:25:30 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-40.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:26:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:27:26 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.50] has joined #lisp 08:28:43 otwieracz: it looks like font-lock-variable-name-face 08:30:24 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:42 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:31:04 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-162-93.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:32:51 c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-dfgwpikjrjgoimwi] has joined #lisp 08:33:35 fourier: Thanks! 08:36:46 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mlmwkqitmhxinmft] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:38:06 _6502_ [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 08:38:21 -!- _6502_ [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Client Quit] 08:39:44 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:01 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:42:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:52 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-195-171.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:44:11 _6502_ [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 08:44:46 <_6502_> can I declare the type of a defstruct slot without providing a default? 08:44:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-68-238.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:45:05 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:45:13 _6502_: how about using NIL? keeping the slot unbound won't work with any type 08:46:01 <_6502_> i thougt it was an error to say for example (price NIL :type fixnum) because NIL is not a valid fixnum 08:46:58 no, it's not - it's just that every instance generation will have to provide a :price value to avoid the type error 08:47:54 <_6502_> ok, nice to know 08:48:21 -!- k9quaint [~quaint@c-24-4-97-212.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:50:52 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:51:25 good morning 08:52:25 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 08:54:27 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:54:37 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:54:51 -!- _6502_ [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:55:58 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jyyduxsobwiegbbs] has joined #lisp 08:56:04 flip214: it is an error. Please don't mislead the newbies! 08:56:32 Now he's gone with ideas making hime write non conforming code! 08:56:45 And who's have to deal with the maintenance mess now? 08:57:09 flip214: I'll come hit your head each time I see such a bug in libraries! 09:00:27 zfx [~zfx@host81-158-150-122.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:00:27 -!- zfx [~zfx@host81-158-150-122.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:00:27 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 09:01:27 CL ecosystem needs a coherent bash replacement story. 09:01:35 deepfire: there's clash. 09:01:49 http;//www.gnu.org/software/clisp/clash.html 09:01:54 pjb, nobody seems to use it, why? 09:02:04 Thanks for the pointer, though.. 09:02:36 If we can get into bash replacement business, we'll have no rivals. 09:02:45 All we need is to solve stream redirection issues. 09:02:57 And fork business.. 09:02:59 pjb: and with that nickname chances are you won't recognize him later:) 09:03:38 If we implemented the process management primitives provided by scsh, it might be used more. I started something like that, in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/lisp&h=9e6206cb946526717277c9899ef0f31762a43a3b&hb=33edd3c76b38f4d8b088fd65f584abda20dbed10&f=clisp/shell.lisp 09:04:16 madnificent: why? ash bash clash ! 09:04:19 clash looks like a sick joke 09:04:37 deepfire: like climacs and a lot of other CL system names. 09:04:38 pjb: i was talking about _6502_ 09:04:39 It doesn't even do pipelines. 09:05:12 deepfire: see my shell.lisp ; but it's a "work in progress"... 09:05:20 madnificent: oh. ah.... 09:05:30 pjb, man, climacs is an undertaking, I can understand its struggle, but clash.. 09:05:33 shelisp was another lisp to make bash-scripting easier 09:05:38 pjb, see executor:pipeline 09:05:47 flip214: I'm sorry, you were right. defstruct must accept any type of default, and signal an error only if the value is used. 09:05:59 pjb, CCL/SBCL only though, atm 09:06:11 deepfire: ok. (but executor is probably more recent :-/ ). 09:06:37 executor isn't a shell, it's an (one of) external process invocation library 09:06:57 It does provide a working shell-style pipeliner. 09:07:04 (used by desire) 09:07:18 Otherwise, I have a dream to implement a retargettable CL, that could be targetted to bash. So basically, you'd write cl RET in bash, and start entering CL forms. 09:07:39 Of course, since it'd run on bash, "ffi" to the shell would be trivial. 09:08:16 functions calls would have to return values through gensymmed global variables 09:08:40 because bash is a sick joke when it comes to actual programming 09:08:51 ..you cannot even list hash table keys.. 09:09:20 I cannot imagine the mindframe of a person who designed such an abomination of hash tables. 09:09:52 C programmer. 09:10:22 It's so hard to manage memory and pointers, avoiding buffer overruns and so on, that you don't have the time to think clearly about your program. 09:10:26 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:26 -!- longfin [~longfin@124.198.53.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755828.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:52 pjb, oh, I've had a patch to the lisp reader in informatimago. 09:13:31 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:33 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.99.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:14:02 what is an example of a class with sparse slots (i.e. which has many slots, but only a few of which ever have a value)? 09:14:48 ecraven: I don't think you'll find such an example. In such a case, I guess most programmer will use a hash-table or a plist to implement the "slots" of the class... 09:15:25 pjb: hi 09:15:44 ecraven: also, if there was such a class, it would often means that the classification has not been done correctly, and that this class should be split into several classes each more cohesive. 09:15:51 Posterdati: hi! 09:15:57 deepfire: thanks ;-) 09:16:12 deepfire: I'll have a look at it tomorrow. 09:16:17 pjb: how are you ? 09:16:21 Fine thanks 09:16:32 pjb: i haven't been able to think of any, thus i thought i'd ask here, as CLOS gives you the ability to define hash table slot storage, i believe 09:16:33 pjb: do you need an automatic flying drone? 09:17:43 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has joined #lisp 09:17:56 Posterdati: well, I don't really have a need. However, if I had more resources and more time, I think it'd be interesting to develop these technologies for the use by the common people. We could start to spy on the governments! 09:18:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:18:30 Personnaly, what I'd love to be able to do, is to send my own personnal sonde to the Moon, particularly to the "Apollo sites"... 09:18:50 pjb: or look at the naked girls :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM 09:19:10 pjb: this drone can pass thru windows 09:19:19 Ah, you have an idea here, it's probably what could finance the product development... 09:19:31 Yep, I already saw it. 09:19:34 pjb: spy spy spy 09:19:50 pjb: but I don't see camera 09:20:37 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:20:55 Posterdati: that, is awesome 09:21:41 Or, remember the beetle in "The Fifth Element". 09:21:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:23:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:23:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:23:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:24:27 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 09:26:38 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:27:00 hi 09:27:08 lo 09:27:10 joachifm [~joachim@ti0150a340-0161.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:27:47 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: kwertii] 09:27:51 just a fool question but, suppose we haven't special operators, couldn't we implement IF like : 09:28:11 if '(blah blah) '(other things) 09:28:46 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.67] has joined #lisp 09:29:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.67] has quit [Client Quit] 09:29:39 Night-hacks: If there are no special operators, just function calls, the entire expression (with all sub-expr) has to be evaluated. 09:29:40 (defmacro if* (test then &optional else) (system::if* ,test (lambda () ,then) (lambda () ,else))) 09:29:51 (defmacro if* (test then &optional else) `(system::if* ,test (lambda () ,then) (lambda () ,else))) 09:31:54 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:22 Night-hacks: google for "Metacircular Semantics for Common Lisp Special Forms". 09:32:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.123.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:53 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jyyduxsobwiegbbs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:33:06 just curious, is it possible to implement lisp pure in functions. 09:33:58 We've answered above. 09:34:03 Go read Metacircular... 09:34:27 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 09:35:08 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:11 madnificent: :) totally amazing 09:36:20 yes, just added my purpose behind that question ! 09:36:50 pjb: could macro's dsl and so on could elevate us as drones creators? 09:36:58 Night-hacks: for most questions, remember that lisp is just a layer above lambda calculus, and that lambda calculus only has functions. 09:37:20 Posterdati: No. You'd have to build a robot to build the drone. 09:37:29 pjb: I could 09:37:31 Posterdati: There's some hardware to bootstrap. 09:37:35 pjb: money apart 09:37:56 pjb: would ep9302 arm running linux be suffice? 09:38:14 Posterdati: When I think robot, I think AI. 09:38:33 Posterdati: it doesn't really matter where the code runs, nowadays, there's Wifi, Internet and clouds. 09:38:40 pjb: robot -> AI -> money (earned - spent) 09:39:10 pjb: yes, wi-fi is not the best choice due to range 09:39:52 pjb: your defmacro if* used (function) (via (lambda)), which is a special operator (according to special-operator-p) ... so it doesn't qualify as answer for the question ;) 09:40:13 :-) right... 09:41:07 flip214: by the way, :you-should-provide-a-value might be a better default value for structure slots when you don't want to give one, to get an error message more informative ;-) 09:41:17 pjb: then? Wanna run a business? 09:41:28 pjb: yes, good idea. 09:41:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:41:37 Posterdati: #lisp is probably not the place to discuss it. 09:42:28 pjb: #smishsp ? 09:42:49 flip214: we could use (coerce '(lambda () ,then) 'function) instead. 09:42:54 flip214: hi 09:42:57 Posterdati: hi 09:43:04 milanj- [~milanj_@109-92-212-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 09:43:36 Night-hacks1 [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 09:43:37 flip214: pjb would use a Lisp programmed c64 to run a drone to spy naked girls :) 09:44:01 Not exactly. I'd send it to the Area 51... 09:44:12 nicdev` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:36 Hunden [~Hunden@e180102120.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:44:40 where lot of naked girls are 09:44:45 pjb: yes, that's correct. I'm not sure whether that would be so nice ... I smell a compiler invocation in the background at runtime ... 09:44:52 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-121.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:09 pjb: or, you know, (error "You should provide a value"). 09:46:40 -!- Night-hacks1 [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 09:46:48 Night-hacks1 [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 09:47:18 right, that should work too. 09:47:48 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-212-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:48 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:48 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:48 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-121.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:49 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:49 -!- nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:47:49 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 09:48:02 Hmm. 09:48:03 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:49:51 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 09:50:33 I had modified part of this: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=LIVE%20hu.dwim.environment;a=plainblob;f=/emacs/dwim-init.el 09:51:05 And now I have this set for syntax highlighting in emacs: 09:51:06 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:51:27 https://github.com/otwieracz/lisp/blob/master/otwieracz-lisp-colors.el 09:51:32 It works, but no at all. 09:51:43 For example, print isn't hilighted. 09:51:53 And in-package. 09:51:56 Anyone have idea, why? 09:52:36 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 09:52:57 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hfojngzwcroypkib] has joined #lisp 09:53:00 longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.192] has joined #lisp 09:55:02 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:31 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 09:56:51 clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 10:00:50 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:01:11 -!- kisp [~user@e178187217.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:01:46 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:23 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:32 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:39 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:04:27 pjb pasted "if without special operators." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123237 10:05:21 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:29 Night-hacks1, flip214: there, I guess that's it. A full implementation of IF* using no special operators (unless the system functions do it, but you can write a CL implementation that doesn't use special operators, if you write it in lambda-calculus).. 10:05:31 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:32 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:32 littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:05:32 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:32 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 10:05:33 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:33 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 10:05:33 -!- littlebobby [~bob@i5E8799B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:33 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:06:34 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 10:07:03 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:03 sellout-1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:07:57 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 10:08:20 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:08:53 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:08:56 pjb: as i read The Metacircular Evaluator in SICP, it said lisp evaluator has been implemented with lisp and ... 10:09:34 Night-hacks1: I was thinking about: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:5nHM64vAR7kJ:citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.46.9657%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf+metacircular+common+lisp+special+operator&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjUn9nJc7EsacItCAmo2Od7bcftvCNv7aC22mv5PDiV6Dte0b7vQi_5nFzlhcgXYToMRhp2FiGmSLr5ZnF10WwQL043biQf1K07xOlKlbJI_WgSFnXo8XODqGtB9z8dAIH6yEh2&sig=AHIEtbSo14HraWBpzizcOpoVlf1D8IodHA 10:10:13 Night-hacks1: otherwise, read AIM-8: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/aim-8/ 10:10:50 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 10:11:10 yeah thanks, needed ACM log in . 10:11:36 Night-hacks1: there are several links, and some of them are accessible without any login. 10:11:48 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 10:13:08 longfin_ [~longfin@1.109.35.130] has joined #lisp 10:13:24 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:13:29 is there a way to get the size an object uses in memory, at least with sbcl ? 10:13:35 -!- longfin_ [~longfin@1.109.35.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:58 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 10:14:01 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.72.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14:06 longfin [~longfin@1.108.198.150] has joined #lisp 10:14:12 pjb: used wrong ( Microsoft research ) ... ! everywhere MSFT is a wrong decision ! 10:14:39 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 10:15:03 -!- Penten` [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:13 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:28 <_8david> galdor: not really. I once had code (http://www.lichteblau.com/tmp/dot/) that used graphviz to show a tree of objects, showing their sizes in bytes. I haven't tried whether it still works correctly with recent SBCL. 10:17:36 too bad 10:17:38 galdor's gate 10:18:03 Posterdati: ? 10:18:17 galdor: a joke! 10:18:36 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:19:14 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 10:19:14 pjb annotated #123237 "metacircular if" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123237#1 10:19:24 Night-hacks1: ^ 10:19:36 -!- longfin [~longfin@1.108.198.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:56 longfin [~longfin@211.246.78.185] has joined #lisp 10:22:15 yeah, that article is exactly what i was after. 10:24:29 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-249-99.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:50 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.246.78.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:24:59 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-249-99.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:25:51 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-121.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:27:42 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:27:49 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:27:54 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-160-156.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:38:03 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:39:15 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:40:00 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:40:01 Posterdati [~tapioca@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:41:06 -!- Night-hacks1 [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 10:44:26 galdor: this might be of some use to you: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.presentation;a=headblob;f=/source/util/object-size.lisp 10:47:06 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:47:32 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:49:56 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 11:02:39 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 11:03:14 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:03:34 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.69] has joined #lisp 11:05:01 daniel__ [~daniel@p50829C5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:52 -!- daniel [~daniel@p50829536.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:08:11 Lisp Machine, Lisp Machine! 11:10:15 Posterdati: Giving away some? 11:10:42 no looking for 11:11:05 Posterdati: run in an emulator? 11:11:27 Posterdati: http://www.aviduratas.de/lisp/lispmfpga/index.html 11:11:39 ehu: how? 11:11:55 Unfortunately the x64 Genera emulation image doesn't seem to work with recent X11 versions. 11:12:03 In the meantime, there's some lisp machine do available on ebay: http://shop.ebay.com/?_nkw=lisp%20machine&rvr_id=247297379439&clk_rvr_id=247297379439 11:12:25 antoszka: run it in Xnest? 11:14:02 -!- denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:32 "a CPU with Lisp optimized instruction set". The first thing would be to instrumentalize an CL implementation and gather some statistics about the "instructions" executed by the existing CL applications... 11:14:33 denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:23 pjb: you only need CAR, CDR, COND or IF, and perhaps EVAL ;) 11:15:25 pjb: Probably better in a virtual machine with an oldish OS. Haven't tried that yet, though. 11:15:27 emacs and clisp optimize CAR... 11:15:50 flip214: I'd bet the image processing libraries optimized on sbcl don't use CAR that much. 11:16:16 but they won't run on that FPGA anyway ... 11:16:29 well, okay, you get (make-array) for simple types and an (AREF), too 11:16:38 antoszka: you're not wrong: the iPad is a unix OS, isn't it? 11:16:38 that enough? 11:17:18 pjb: I'm not sure I ever mentioned an iPad on this channel. 11:17:46 There's some literature about implementing lisp primitive in microcode (on old computers that let the programmers access the microcode). 11:18:06 antoszka: no, but that's an example of a system that doesn't look at all what it's based upon. 11:18:21 antoszka: so you can make a lisp machine, based on a linux kernel. 11:18:50 pjb: Which still doesn't seem to pertain much to my problem of the Genera image not running in recent X versions :) 11:18:57 antoszka: at least not according to google 11:19:09 antoszka: I said: use Xnest. 11:19:30 notably, and old Xnest, if it doesn't work on the new one. 11:20:06 how about x2go? 11:20:55 pjb: Xnest is just the server, AFAIR it was not the matter of speaking some version/revision of the X protocol, but some underlying libraries (which would be easiest to separate in a VM or at least a jail). 11:23:26 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:27:11 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:05 justinm [~zfx@92.40.254.182.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:33:45 -!- denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:34:15 pjb: no lisp machine 11:34:21 -!- justinm [~zfx@92.40.254.182.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 11:34:43 Posterdati: every couple of years, however, you may find one., 11:34:46 denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:00 Posterdati: spare money, they cost more than $4000. 11:35:07 Plus the transport, and they're heavy. 11:35:30 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:36:07 pjb: three phase or single phase power? 11:37:01 Indeed, but this is a small problem. 11:37:21 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hfojngzwcroypkib] has left #lisp 11:42:08 pjb: I should buy a three phase inverter then 11:43:10 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:43:39 Find a lisp machine first. 11:44:14 the lisp machine on fpga is interesting 11:44:26 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:44:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:44:52 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:44:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:46:32 ls 11:46:39 wrong windows, sry 11:46:53 I'm not sure which is more practical - enhance compilers so that Lisp sources can be compiled like C sources (very small, unused functions dropped (eg. EVAL)), or meeting in the middle by a specialized instruction set 11:46:53 library/ private/ src/ works/ tmp/ 11:47:01 pjb: Thx. 11:47:05 pjb: is that MacOS? 11:47:12 pjb: Would you cd into tmp for me, please :) 11:47:13 No, my home. 11:47:31 antoszka: there's a tmp/misc/wang.txt file... 11:47:34 http://cgi.ebay.com/AMIGA-LISP-DISKETTE-AND-MANUAL-BRAND-NEW-NEVER-OPENED-/220810896890?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item33695ae5fa 11:47:35 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:42 lol Amiga Lisp lol 11:47:44 tee /dev/kmem /dev/sda /dev/sdb < /dev/urandom 11:48:00 pjb: do you run _any_ command pasted here? 11:48:09 pjb pasted "wang.txt" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123241 11:48:32 flip214: only the funny ones. 11:48:42 ~/tmp/misc/wang.txt is my standard text test file. 11:48:44 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 11:49:15 zfx [~zfx@host86-133-8-97.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:15 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-133-8-97.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:49:15 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 11:49:15 Posterdati: clisp began life as Amiga Lisp, IIRC. (or perhaps it was Atari Lisp, but in any case, it ran on Amiga). 11:49:33 Posterdati: Shipping:$179.61 UPS Worldwide Saver  and I just wanted to bid on that 11:49:44 pjb: I want it 11:50:00 antoszka: what an impossible price 11:50:12 antoszka: for a little package like that 11:50:47 Maybe the teleport it. 11:50:50 they* 11:51:15 pjb: heh, what a scam! :) 11:51:24 yes 11:51:29 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 11:51:29 179$ 11:51:40 will come with a naked hostess :) 11:51:43 -!- Elench` [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:52:21 Posterdati: well, judging from links that circulated here some time ago you might prefer to pull your eyes out with a rusty spoon 11:52:36 pjb, sorry, I've misaddressed the previous line, but that delivery price is still a scam... :) 11:53:29 flip214: ? 11:54:08 Elench` [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 11:55:16 Posterdati: perhaps not on #lisp, but somewhere on freenode 11:55:30 why a rusty spoon? 11:55:40 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:14 because it hurts less than looking at the links I referenced 11:59:08 which one? 11:59:21 -!- denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:59:49 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 12:00:59 was denebola a planet where kirk and spock got attacked by flying vomit shape monsters? 12:02:56 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:05:18 -!- milanj- [~milanj_@109-92-212-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:57 any hint? 12:07:36 denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:20 Posterdati: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denebola 12:09:10 lol 12:12:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:13:42 yes 12:13:47 I told this :) 12:14:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:15:16 anyway denebola was such a place 12:15:55 -!- joachifm [~joachim@ti0150a340-0161.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:41 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 12:17:06 sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:06 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:17:06 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 12:18:06 is > operator a predicate? 12:18:16 (sort (list 10 3 2 4 1 2) #'>) 12:20:49 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_p.htm#predicate 12:22:20 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:22:47 Posterdati [~tapioca@host245-214-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:23:47 -!- sellout-1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:01 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:24:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:36 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:24:45 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:29:05 tcr1 [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:29:59 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 12:31:02 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 12:31:04 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06a1c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:05 Hello! 12:33:44 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:33:48 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-160-156.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:35:03 zmv [~Telefonic@187.34.48.58] has joined #lisp 12:36:28 -!- denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:58 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 12:37:58 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 12:37:58 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:40:41 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-212-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 12:43:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:40 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:57 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:44:09 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:10 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-ccqvnzromypdojjv] has joined #lisp 12:44:22 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:44:32 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:44:43 orm [a126ddab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.161.38.221.171] has joined #lisp 12:46:55 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-159-34.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:09 Using ASN.1 with ECL I get «Cannot replace the lambda list of # with (OBJECT) because it is incongruent with some of the methods.» 12:47:18 Has someone else seen something like this before? 12:47:57 how us the code 12:48:09 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8188FE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:48:33 ; Loading "asn.1" 12:48:33 An error occurred during initialization: 12:48:33 Cannot replace the lambda list of # with (OBJECT) because it is incongruent with some of the methods. 12:48:55 ECL with (ql:quickload :asn.1) 12:48:58 sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #lisp 12:49:06 flip214: that has been discussed on the ecl list 12:49:11 ah, ok 12:49:12 thanks 12:49:20 by you? 12:49:23 yes. 12:49:33 sorry, different issue. 12:51:44 Xach: yes, I'm active on ECL at the moment ... 12:54:30 So I've been loooking into common lisp. I got a book and have been studying it (Land of Lisp), but as a C++ programmer I am a bit confused. Not so much by the language, but by the workflow. I am used to vim->commandline->make->run->debug->repeat, but what about lisp? 12:54:54 does it behave more like a scripting language? 12:54:59 orm: with CL, you usually start up the environment and work to transform it into the environment that solves your problem. 12:55:02 as faras workflow is concerned 12:55:03 orm: incrementally. 12:55:17 but then what of deployment? 12:55:45 orm: there are lots of options. i sometimes load everything and save the environment as a (big) executable file and use that. 12:55:46 orm: with SBCL or ECL you can create standalone binaries, if you wish. 12:55:59 what about clisp? 12:56:05 clisp can also do that. 12:56:18 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has left #lisp 12:56:21 as a vim user I'd suggest looking at the slimv plugin ... and yes, it's more like a scripting language. but even more fun! 12:56:48 slimv work with cygwin clisp? 12:57:25 Im stuck with windows on this laptop until I graduate but I run archlinux at home 12:58:09 orm: the slimv developer (tamás) also uses windows 12:58:22 I guess that answers that question 12:58:23 you'll just need the python dlls - but they're referenced on the slimv page, IIRC 12:58:35 cygwin has python installed 12:58:50 2.6.5 12:59:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:59:31 I don't think that will work - I think the windows slimv needs _exactly_ python27 12:59:53 look at :version in vim to find out - or open the vim.exe binary and look for the pythonXX.dll string 13:00:59 vim is using python27 13:01:06 but that's outside of cygwin 13:02:26 Now I tried to compile ECL from git ... «ecl: undefined symbol: cl_env_p» 13:05:04 pnq [~nick@AC81ADAC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:22 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.32.32] has joined #lisp 13:05:42 but the concept of cons cells, let me make sure I got this right. I know everything in lisp is lists, but if I was to represent a cons cell in C, it woulld probably be something like struct CCell { void* left; void* right; };, and then using functions like car, cons, and others, I can make the two parts of the cell point to absolutely anything. am I overanalyzing this right? 13:06:05 ah, ok ... build$ ln -s libecl.so libecl.so.11.1 13:06:12 orm: Not everything in lisp is lists. 13:06:50 ? 13:07:21 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:07:35 You can think of a cons as an object that can hold two other objects, and you get the first one with CAR (or FIRST) and the second with CDR (or REST). 13:08:45 and then I can either nest those calls or use some brain-fucking shorthand 13:09:01 If you want. 13:09:06 the book I have thoroughly confused me with that 13:09:23 caddadadddadadr 13:09:29 wat? 13:09:46 I think I've used cdr and cddr but no other combination other than that. 13:10:08 and cddr gets the second part of the next cell, right? 13:10:16 I think it might have been idiomatic to use other combinations because "everyone" knew that cadr or whatever was the way to get the name in a deffoo-style macro form or something. 13:10:32 orm: I've used it exclusively for (loop for (a b) in list by #'cddr ...) to work through a list by pairs. 13:10:49 sounds useful 13:11:37 *Xach* has renewed interest in quickly finding the answers to questions like "how many projects use cddr and which ones use it the most" 13:11:57 X-Scale [email@89.181.16.111] has joined #lisp 13:12:16 -!- X-Scale [email@89.181.16.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:20 tai [d8c385bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.195.133.189] has joined #lisp 13:12:24 so basically, car and cddr aren't used all that often and when they are, it's usually for specialized circumstances 13:13:19 I guess they're used if the programmer wants to tell the reader that it's a CONS cell he's processing here, and not intends to look at that LIST 13:13:31 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 13:13:51 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:51 X-Scale` [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 13:14:27 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:14:39 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 13:16:06 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:16:51 and this is where the whole "self programming programming language" thing I have heard so much about comes in 13:18:01 Is function-lambda-expression the only way to get the inverse of symbol-function? 13:18:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:39 I suppose, do the inverse is a better way of putting it 13:18:51 herbieB: yes, and only if you're lucky 13:20:02 tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:20:29 Bah, back to the drawing board I head 13:23:23 orm: You might get some insight by downloading projects and reading the source. 13:23:43 orm: Which is that book you are referring to? 13:23:47 I want to glob a filename pattern into a list of filenames. E.g. /home/tcr/foo* into ("/home/tcr/foo1" "/home/tcr/foo2" ) 13:24:03 Is that something for wild pathnames? 13:24:25 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:24:48 tcr: (directory #P"/home/tcr/foo*")? 13:25:14 There're some keyword parameters on sbcl, you might want to take a look at them 13:25:19 so that symlinks are not resolved etc. 13:25:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:25:28 -!- orm [a126ddab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.161.38.221.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:26:34 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.248.40] has joined #lisp 13:26:57 hello 13:28:37 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/19_ca.htm 13:28:43 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 13:30:46 flip214: That does not work for me. Also maybe only a whole component can be wild? I tried (make-pathname :name '("foo" :wild) :type ':wild :directory "/home/tcr/") 13:31:25 (directory "/etc/g*") 13:31:26 (#P"/etc/gEDA/" #P"/etc/gconf/" #P"/etc/gdb/" #P"/etc/ghostscript/" 13:31:26 #P"/etc/gimp/" #P"/etc/gnashpluginrc" #P"/etc/gnashrc" 13:31:26 #P"/etc/gnome-vfs-mime-magic" #P"/etc/groff/" #P"/etc/group" #P"/etc/group-" 13:31:26 #P"/etc/gshadow" #P"/etc/gshadow-" #P"/etc/gtkmathview/") 13:31:27 cl-fad irons out some of these wrinkles 13:31:29 works for me 13:31:36 dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 13:32:54 ah ok right, I had to use "/home/tcr/foo*.*" 13:32:59 in my specific case 13:33:31 ah yes, the wildcards are strange - I guess because of "compatibility" with DOS 8.3 and so on 13:33:43 funny that you can't portably construct such a pathname using make-pathname 13:34:09 I mean in a structured way instead of constructing an appropriate string 13:36:14 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:53 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:37:54 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 13:40:22 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:41:23 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:41:26 killerstorm [~alex_mizr@satellite3.donapex.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:34 hi 13:41:35 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 13:41:46 how do I open additional repl in slime? 13:42:01 I remember I did it somehow... 13:42:57 -!- nicdev` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:43:06 -!- tai [d8c385bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.195.133.189] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:43:08 just do M-x slime again 13:44:11 It asks about additional inferior-lisp 13:44:28 y/n? 13:45:10 y 13:45:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.123.203] has joined #lisp 13:45:40 hmm wouldn't that launch another CL process? 13:45:56 jdz [~jdz@host118-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:45:56 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:13 yeah, it does. but I want another REPL into same lisp world. like a new thread... 13:47:17 that's a fair question and it probably does 13:47:32 then run a new swank server manually in a new thread, and use M-x slime-connect 13:47:43 there's also the slime-mrepl contrib not sure if that still works 13:47:48 I remember it was working with ABCL + XEmacs, now I'm unable to replicate success with SBCL + Emacs (and probably different version of SLIME) 13:48:18 hmm, interesting 13:48:19 thanks 13:48:58 its a wonderful day 13:49:17 *Xach* worked Quicklisp + buildapp into a makefile this week 13:49:42 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 13:51:10 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:31 haha, I've just realized that inferior-lisp is my other REPL (i.e. it runs in a separate thread and so I can issue commands when REPL is blocked). Ok, that works as poor man's version... 13:53:19 or as an inferior version 13:53:26 exactly 13:58:24 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:08 -!- killerstorm [~alex_mizr@satellite3.donapex.net] has left #lisp 14:02:38 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:29 cakofony [~cakofony@eu51-183.elon.edu] has joined #lisp 14:04:30 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:05:58 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:27 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:42 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:13:09 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.27] has joined #lisp 14:13:27 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B32620E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:36 -!- dnolen_ [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen_] 14:14:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:15:11 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p50829C5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:23 symbole [d1bfab0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.191.171.11] has joined #lisp 14:16:40 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:17:34 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-hozerzyyaszlsidx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19:03 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 14:19:34 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.110] has joined #lisp 14:20:41 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:43 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:20:44 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-156-35.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:21:15 orm [a126ddab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.161.38.221.171] has joined #lisp 14:21:28 -!- cakofony [~cakofony@eu51-183.elon.edu] has left #lisp 14:22:33 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:59 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.32.32] has quit [Quit: see u] 14:24:10 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.32.32] has joined #lisp 14:25:27 -!- martinkb [martin@2001:470:1:41:a800:ff:fe3e:ad1c] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:29:03 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.32.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:39 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:38:55 urandom__ [~user@p548A4F4C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:19 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:24 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 14:42:44 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326ABD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:24 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has joined #lisp 14:44:18 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B32620E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:44:18 Can someone show me an example of the value of *mt-random-state* on lispworks? 14:47:16 -!- clog_ [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Quit: ^C] 14:47:46 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 14:50:15 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:50:41 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:51:07 -!- sellout is now known as Guest70198 14:53:09 cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-173-77-24-106.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:11 umaefx [~user@39-8-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:15 -!- Guest70198 is now known as sellout- 14:55:33 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:15 phf [~user@75.150.171.217] has joined #lisp 14:59:28 lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:01:08 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755828.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:27 i've been having issues with slime-c-p-c, after i choose a completion from the *Completions* buffer emacs appends the whole name to whatever i've typed so far. so for example `for' results in `forformat' 15:02:38 i also get a message "Obsolete `base-size' passed to choose-completion-string". it's some kind of version mismatch but i'm sitting on trunk slime and emacs 23.3.1. anyone know of a solution? 15:02:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:02 -!- hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 15:03:04 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-149-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:03:14 -!- k3yb1n [~abfen@host-190-11-73-4.supernet.com.bo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:15 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:04:03 HG` [~HG@p579F7749.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:48 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:06:49 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 15:07:13 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 15:07:37 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 15:10:29 tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 15:10:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:12:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-39-232-220.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:51 Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 15:12:55 morning 15:13:24 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:14:36 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:14:48 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:15:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:35 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.13] has joined #lisp 15:15:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.13] has quit [Changing host] 15:15:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:17:04 ASau`` [~user@95-27-211-57.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:18:24 -!- orm [a126ddab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.161.38.221.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:25 -!- ASau` [~user@95-26-236-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:18:43 k3yb1n [~abfen@host-190-11-73-4.supernet.com.bo] has joined #lisp 15:21:15 -!- guther [guther@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:24 Hey there slyrus. 15:22:46 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-017-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:24 -!- vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:25:34 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-78-147.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:35 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-106.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:28:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:32:55 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has joined #lisp 15:33:16 Xach: what's the story of this quicklisp/buildapp makefile? 15:33:58 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-017-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:55 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:38:15 -!- umaefx [~user@39-8-132-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has left #lisp 15:39:42 Fade: i wrote an application that processes a telecom billing file and i wanted to make sure it could be built easily by a non-lispnerd 15:40:08 I'm going to be doing something similar pretty soon. any chance you'll write it up? 15:40:45 phf: have your tried updating your slime? 15:40:57 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:03 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:41:34 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:32 Fade: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123247 15:43:04 It's kind of roundabout. Builds the app twice, the first to make sure the right libraries are available without explicitly listing all of them. 15:43:36 nice. thank you 15:44:31 I'm slightly tempted to include Quicklisp bootstrapping. 15:44:32 Xach: That's pretty awesome. :) 15:44:48 or maybe even a checkout of a skeleton quicklisp... 15:44:49 do it! :) 15:45:32 Guthur: unless slime has moved away from that CVS repo, i'm up to date 15:46:01 When I started working on Quicklisp I imagined having some kind of system for creating a directory structure of required libraries and an index of their system files, so you could bundle & use it without quicklisp at all. 15:46:09 mmauryc [~mmmau@stu232-227.bard.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:16 directory tree + asdf.lisp + system-index.txt or similar 15:46:23 This was easier. 15:46:29 *Xach* was in a hurry 15:46:29 that would be _awesome_ 15:47:30 What's funny is I imagined that nobody would even bother with Quicklisp unless I got that done before I made a beta available 15:47:51 But nobody has actually brought it up as an idea, so I guess it was obvious and a showstopper only to me :) 15:47:55 you underestimated the frustration with the library picture in CL. 15:48:25 my company just signed it's first major lisp dev contract. 15:48:27 I also imagined that nobody would use Quicklisp unless they could install an arbitrary library tarball given an URL. 15:48:39 quicklisp was pretty vital in securing internal buy-in. 15:48:42 *Xach* still wants to make that possible, but nobody has complained yet 15:48:46 cool, glad to hear it 15:48:53 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:51 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:22 well, quicklisp is such a massive step forward, I think people are kind of still in the warm glow of how much better things are now. 15:50:22 *Xach* has been too busy with summer stuff to get much hacking done recently 15:50:41 Fade: That's awesome. Congrats! 15:50:55 as non #lisp people come online /w quicklisp, the feature requests will probably also start flowing. 15:51:13 And yeah, I think *everybody* underestimated the frustration with the library picture in CL. Or rather, how much better it could be. 15:51:17 redline6561_: thanks. it's actually quite a major coup. we've been pretty focused on python for a very long time. 15:51:39 Fade: I work at a Django shop and I miss CL+Slime a good deal. 15:51:50 I have three brand new copies of PCL in the hands of project dev's who are furiously working their way through it. 15:51:51 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:09 Joy. Raw joy. 15:52:13 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 Where is this? 15:52:19 Toronto 15:52:24 Aww. 15:53:39 Canada: the friendly lisp hotbed to the north. :) 15:54:23 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:55:24 redline6561_: where are you? 15:56:35 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-106.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:56:40 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:56:45 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-149-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:56:54 Fade: Atlanta, GA. 15:57:28 kenny tilton is looking for lisp developers in Florida. :) 15:57:51 is he still around? 15:58:01 very much so. 15:58:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:58:19 Fade: This is true. I'm pretty happy where I am for a little while. This is actually my first job out of school and I'm learning a decent bit. In a year or two though...kenny and copyleft solutions will be some of my first doors to knock on. :) 15:58:24 maybe it's to develop that cello thing into a commercial product :) 15:58:39 (sadly, he seems to have removed the wonderful screenshot of the inspector on a rotating cube) 15:59:01 he's doing some insurance app using cells + qooxlisp 15:59:24 oh, interesting 15:59:30 cells is quite nice, in principle 16:00:26 if somebody with both interest and time would port qooxlisp to something besides allegro, I think he'd be on to something. 16:00:45 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:01:30 kennyware seems pretty married to allegro. 16:01:51 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 16:01:58 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.51.106] has joined #lisp 16:03:03 What does qooxlisp do? 16:03:10 killerbo1 [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 16:03:10 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:03:21 Fade: someone ported it to hunchentoot 16:03:26 -!- killerbo1 [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:31 CL bindings for the qooxdoo javascript framework. 16:03:45 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 16:03:47 felideon: oh? do you have url specifics? 16:03:48 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 16:03:59 Fade: unfortunately that version of qooxlisp is so far behind now which is meh 16:04:09 :( 16:04:20 Fade: yeah let me check anyway 16:04:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:55 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81ADAC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:04:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:07:04 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:22 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-aqmsvtyxheyrydjf] has joined #lisp 16:07:29 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-aqmsvtyxheyrydjf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:32 Fade: this is the guy https://github.com/hankhero/qooxlisp 16:07:45 thanks 16:08:11 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-cytzxqtnrtfwajbc] has joined #lisp 16:08:58 Fade: couldn't UCW be used to wrap a library like qooxdoo? 16:09:34 well Cells does had the dataflow stuff to qooxdoo though. 16:09:56 once upon a time, ucw included a js library (dojo) but the consensus among the core devs was that the js interop didn't belong in ucw-core. 16:10:06 s/had/add 16:10:18 Fade: right, understandably 16:10:30 so, I guess the answer is 'yes', but 'no'. 16:10:31 :) 16:10:59 right, I didn't mean in conjunction with 16:11:13 Fade: also a lot of people dont like RIA 16:11:23 Fade: that's more or less following current trends 16:11:49 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:11:50 the new big thing is having a website be essentially a javascript application, which does client-side templating and makes RPC calls to a server 16:12:03 little room for server-side javascript creation magic there 16:12:18 Fade: so he's onto something, but it may be too late as HTML5 will bring back more "pure websites" 16:12:43 well, that's kind of a natural evolution from a couple of years ago with the strict MVC architecture people were going on about. 16:13:18 I tend to treat html as just another presentation layer, and strongly prefer to manage the client from the server side. 16:13:26 If i ever get the energy i will create a framework called DamnTheRest and it be a UCW-backed qooxlisp lol 16:13:53 in reference to drewc's ForTheWeb! 16:14:13 FTW is a very insteresting system. 16:14:19 drewc does great work 16:14:23 Fade: has he shared it yet? 16:14:28 I never knew what happened to it 16:14:35 but he's always so busy using his stuff, he never gets around to documenting it. 16:14:44 felideon: it's on github, iirc. 16:14:54 ah 16:15:11 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:15:27 well I'm used to no documentation. case in point: Cells 16:15:33 I also liked (and used) LoL for quite awhile. 16:15:34 :D 16:15:43 now there's a system with a learning curve. 16:15:44 heh 16:15:46 *Xach* wonders to what TLDR should expand 16:16:02 Fade: i never used UCW enough to get to LoL but was looking forward to it 16:16:34 felideon: LoL is the system that really uncovered for me what MOP was all about. 16:16:39 Fade: do you still use UCW a lot? 16:16:39 see also contextL 16:16:45 lately not at all. 16:16:52 just Hunchentoot? 16:16:58 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:16:58 (or not web at all) 16:17:08 I'm bringing a bunch of python devs up to CL literacy, and I didn't want to change that many core beliefs in one fell swoop. :) 16:17:18 :) 16:17:22 Eataix [~Eataix@209.237.253.51] has joined #lisp 16:17:32 at the moment I'm looking at mongrel2 with a lisp backend. 16:18:18 this new project isn't principally a web application. 16:18:34 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:18:35 gotcha 16:18:40 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 16:19:35 Fade: so you were doing contract work in another lang, and finally are doing a contract in lisp? 16:20:12 my company is principally a colocation facility, but we have a professional services group that does bespoke software in support of our hosting clients. 16:20:28 ah nice 16:20:51 tech.coop in for some competition soon :P 16:20:57 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.51.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:21:00 Fade: colocation? nice 16:21:01 in this case, we had a client come to us who was at the tail end of 18 months of a failed java project and had spent so much and undergone so much pain that they were willing to listen to any mad notion. 16:21:11 ... wow 16:21:22 haha excellent! 16:21:22 Rebound win! 16:21:36 Fade: similar here. Ruby contractors were falling behind, and had built a non-flexible system anyway. 16:21:41 so I cooked up an architecture with an aggressive schedule and got them to buy in to a common lisp solution. 16:21:47 so CIO read him some pg and called in the Lisp trrops 16:21:51 troops* 16:21:54 which puts me under pretty incredible pressure, but i'm confident atm. :) 16:22:07 fade: In python-land recently I came across wsgi, which seemed remarkably sane. 16:22:10 nice, good luck 16:22:12 felideon: yeah, that'd be me. lol 16:22:24 wsgi is remarkably sane. 16:22:26 I wonder if that would help with cross-language integration issues. 16:22:37 there's a lot of good stuff in the python ecosphere. 16:22:54 Yeah, it's also in javascript land as well. 16:23:02 Have to see about a lisp implementation sometime. 16:23:14 hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:23 felideon: are you working with kenny? 16:23:24 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:24 -!- hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:26 I'm not very happy with hunchentoot's design. 16:23:43 Zhivago: which aspects of it? 16:23:57 Mostly the threads. 16:24:20 you'd prefer asynchronous? 16:24:25 or thread-pooling? 16:24:33 Asynchronous. 16:24:35 Zhivago: naturally, wsgi was done by a lisper! 16:25:12 Recently at work a $3,000/year program we got to decode a telcom file came up for license renewal. I got the greenlight to buy the spec for the file format ($740) and was able to write a replacement in a couple days. I was able to cut & paste tables of record specifications out of the spec PDF and have CL rewrite them into processing code. 16:25:29 Got lucky with that - if I couldn't automate that step, it was hundreds of pages of tedious tables to work through. 16:25:37 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-132-160.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:25:48 Fade, felideon: FTW is an empty repo on github. Is there one suitable for reading around somewhere? 16:26:03 redline6561_: if it's empty on github, drewc hasn't released it. 16:26:03 Xach: PDFPen (with its excellent OCR engine) is $69 (: 16:26:26 antifuchs: I was able to get consistent-enough output from evince to make it work. 16:26:36 Xach: how many LOC did the CL app turn out to be? 16:26:39 Xach: cool 16:26:47 I had to write some stuff to fix up lines that got staggered over multiple lines, but other than that it wasn't too bad. 16:26:50 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-40.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:25 And there was one amusing moment where I was comparing the output of my program to the old program and couldn't figure out why the hell it was failing. I eyeballed diffs for 15 minutes before I found it was a unicode en-dash vs. ascii hyphen issue. 16:27:43 Fade: 800 16:27:49 nice :) 16:27:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:28:39 Xach: haha, ouch 16:28:57 *Xach* must punt to hexl-mode sooner 16:30:44 Zhivago: clack claims to be wsgi inspired 16:30:55 atm I'm pretty impressed with mongrel2 16:32:33 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:32:42 Fair enough. 16:33:35 I've never used it, and the docs are in japanese 16:33:57 so, situation normal. :) 16:34:15 Japanese is fine. 16:34:44 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-jqwpjyjfcgzygmhw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:08 No. It seems to be in English. 16:35:16 ah, cool 16:35:23 when I first investigated, it was not. 16:36:26 Lately I've been using node.js. 16:36:40 I've been seeing a lot of people picking up node.js 16:36:59 It's pretty close to what I think a lisp system should be. 16:37:12 seems like a nice system 16:37:23 I get cranky when I have to write all the js syntax, though 16:37:28 The tricky part is figuring out how a lisp should look for such an environment. 16:37:41 anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770F0B.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:38:51 Fade: clack is afaik based on Rack and WSGI, yes 16:39:15 Zhivago: it would look saner, thanks to macros 16:39:27 Macros aren't sufficient. 16:39:50 There are a whole bunch of underlying semantic issues that need to be dealt with. 16:40:15 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.33.53] has joined #lisp 16:40:46 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41:02 Zhivago: I assumed "Node.js don in Lisp instad of JS" 16:41:11 -!- Eataix [~Eataix@209.237.253.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:41:16 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:27 Oh. That would largely be a waste of time. 16:41:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:24 The thing is that js has better infrastructre than most lisp systems already, and it's only going to get better. 16:42:39 Also, it isn't mired in the past and tied down to a lot of baggage. 16:42:41 i've long thought that building a reactor based system like twisted in CL would be a fun project. 16:43:05 JS is a better lisp, except for the lisp bit. 16:43:12 wll, on of th eissues I had seen mntioned by othrs were related to syntax, lading to rather ugly and hard to read code 16:43:31 Sure, and things like dynamic bindings and so on. 16:44:15 working in JS always leaves me wishing that it had been left a Scheme. 16:44:34 Well, I keep on discovering interesting bit of it. 16:44:53 the first time I did a big JS project, I kept being amazed at how lispy it was. 16:44:57 The other day I realized just how nice it is to be able to define local functions _after_ you use them. 16:45:03 then I went and read the history. 16:45:05 ... damn lag 16:45:13 { ... return x; function Foo() { ... } } 16:46:05 Which was kind of surprising. 16:46:16 ... that works? 16:46:18 hum 16:46:28 named function defs are hoisted to the beginning 16:46:45 Yeah, it's really nice because you then write the simple logic next to the entry point. 16:46:51 btw, anyone who works with JS and appreciates language features should take a good look at the new stuff in the ES5 standard 16:47:09 Well, all variables are established through the whole scope. 16:47:16 you can define property accessors standardly, and make things immutable, and avoid some various ways-stuff-blows-up 16:47:28 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:34 Bindings require evaluation to be applied, but not function definitions. 16:47:53 Yeah, it looks like a bright future. 16:49:29 Zhivago: that's quit a simple bit, though 16:49:43 What is? 16:49:56 If Javascript didn't have this ugly syntax and the newline problem, I might have mustered the motivation to take a deeper look at it. 16:49:58 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:18 The newline problem doesn't exist if you don't write bad code. :) 16:50:38 Zhivago: return 16:50:38 oops. 16:50:45 Yeah, like I said ... 16:51:01 "newline problem"? 16:51:09 Implicit semicolons for idiots. 16:51:25 pfft heh 16:51:43 But if you use a reasonable indentation style it just never comes up. 16:51:47 I guess that I am spoiled by languages where I can separate my tokens by arbitrary whitespace. 16:52:19 With syntax, I've found that capitalizing all function names helps a lot. :) 16:52:29 having used languages that use both it's a trivial issue 16:53:21 one of the hardest problems to deal with in a lisp mapping is 'this'. 16:53:25 i will say that the one thing i wish i could do easily in lisp is something like with-package 16:53:57 Actually, I still don't understand the reasoning behind this in js properly. 16:54:05 oGMo: you could write a reader macro... 16:54:16 Zhivago: eh. it's just a convention. i declare "self" to be the first parameter of every method if i want to do smalltalky OOP 16:54:35 (which i do, quite often) 16:55:11 xan_ [~xan@144.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 Zhivago: you mean how it behaves, or why it is the way it is? 16:55:26 kpreid: it's possible 16:55:43 The why of it. 16:56:11 the why of "this"? 16:56:27 Yes. 16:56:27 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-152-64.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:41 I mean, if it were an additional parameter, it would make sense, and then closures would work properly. 16:56:51 i find that "very lisp" people tend to want to overlook the fundamentals of OOP the way, say, ruby people want to overlook the fundamentals of type 16:57:37 Zhivago: then people would be looking at that parameter funny, like for python :) 16:57:38 Zhivago: that sounds more like the mechanics of "this" than the identification of an object as "this" 16:58:04 ogmo; That's what we're talking about -- why 'this' is that way in js. 16:59:26 I found a lot of javascript littered with 'this' where the programmer got lost in scoping issues. 16:59:50 Well, you need it if you want to work with constructors and prototypes. 17:00:01 in practice it seems to act as an escape valve 17:00:06 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has joined #lisp 17:00:08 The most perplexing thing is why it can't be captured by closures. 17:00:23 I'm sure there's a sensible reason behind it -- I just haven't figured it out yet. 17:00:44 javascript is more syntaxy, isn't "this" a keyword? 17:02:04 Well, the question is -- why is it a keyword? :) 17:02:15 it was written by people who think that way? ;) 17:02:23 Not a useful explanation. 17:02:29 gabnet [~gabnet@sma83-1-88-185-8-89.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:53 it feels like the kind of thin introduced when eich maybe found himself in a corner at implementation time. 17:02:58 arbitrary things often aren't 17:03:03 You can say the same things about a lot of things in CL. 17:03:17 But if you dig deep enough there is usually a sensible rationale. 17:03:21 Fade: possible but it'd be easy to implement "this" as an implicit variable, too 17:03:24 I didn't actually ever figure out its correct use either. 17:03:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.167.123.203] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:03:47 Zhivago: if JS were lisp i would assume that to be the case 17:04:06 That's a nasty form of arrogance. 17:04:13 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:04:14 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has joined #lisp 17:04:24 Most hallowed lisp features are expedient hacks with the corners rubbed off. 17:04:41 -!- k3yb1n [~abfen@host-190-11-73-4.supernet.com.bo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:59 semantically, 'this' can't be captured by a closure because *every* function invocation is or isn't method-ish, which fully determines the value of this 17:05:00 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:05:01 Zhivago: not meant like that ... JS is a simple spec and a simple language and doesn't feature stuff that has probably at some point had hardware-level implications 17:05:04 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 17:05:19 if you were to say that non-method functions closed over this, then you would get a bizarre semi-dynamic scoping. 17:05:27 Generally people aren't stupid -- so when they do apparantly stupid things there is usually a good reason for it. 17:07:00 Zhivago: But generally people think others are just stupid. :) 17:07:14 *rsynnott* finds javascript's weak typing extremely unfortunate 17:07:27 It isn't weak. 17:07:40 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.248.40] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 17:07:42 It just has a lot of polymorphic operators, like CL. 17:08:10 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 17:08:37 The choice of polymorphic operators, on the other hand, is something that you might complain about -- but given eq, eql, equalp, etc ... 17:10:05 fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has joined #lisp 17:10:16 b4283 [~b4283@111-254-58-32.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:20 hi 17:10:25 i'd only complain about the inability to extend them 17:10:56 *rsynnott* finds things like [1,2,3] + [4,5,6] = "1,2,34,5,6" particularly jarring 17:11:21 Yeah, it's a bit like TCL in it's preference for strings. 17:11:23 rsynnott: it makes sense if you see how JS does things 17:11:24 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 17:11:24 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 17:11:24 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 17:11:26 er, its. 17:11:27 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:11:33 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:11:51 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-dfgwpikjrjgoimwi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:13:23 bhaskara` [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:11 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:04 It contains an informally specified, slow implementation of half of Common Lisp... 17:18:12 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/437913/ 17:18:27 what is the latest quicklisp version? 17:18:36 i got a question about why the result doesn't return 3 elements 17:19:01 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.69] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:24 leo2007: june 19th 17:19:48 b4283: mapcar stops at the shortest list 17:20:02 b4283: it does not examine the signature of the function it's mapping. 17:20:13 i see 17:20:22 thanks Xach 17:20:52 okbrogon 17:21:47 Xach: thanks. 17:22:18 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-149-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:23:07 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d0490fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:35 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 17:23:35 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 17:23:35 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 17:24:48 _3b, therep? 17:26:26 ubii_mobile [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 17:27:51 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:57 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:31:36 carlocci [~nes@93.37.209.171] has joined #lisp 17:31:37 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.195] has joined #lisp 17:32:20 Fade: yes I am (working with Kenny) 17:32:23 <_3b> deepfire: more or less 17:33:22 felideon: lord have mercy on us. 17:33:34 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:40 On whom? 17:34:30 on me, at least. 17:34:43 is he any tamer in real life than he is on c.l.l? :) 17:34:52 -!- lanthan [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:35:02 Fade: lol! we were just talking about that at lunch 17:35:05 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-mmyofxpoizwkdunj] has joined #lisp 17:35:21 No comments. 17:35:25 what felideon said. 17:35:35 and, how do you guys find working in allegro? 17:35:35 Fade: also depends who you ask. 17:35:49 Fade: it's great! I can get antifuchs to do work for me. 17:35:49 so, how do people find those juicy lisp contractor positions? :) 17:35:56 lol 17:36:00 aaah (; 17:36:16 Franz are cool folks. :) 17:36:29 sykopomp: I started a company and then started creating them. 17:36:47 Fade: do any of those positions still exist? 17:37:07 (make-instance 'lisp-job :name 'fade) 17:37:22 maybe. it depends on how this project goes. 17:37:23 It's easier for you, with all that free healthcare. 17:37:34 Xach: that is very true. 17:37:48 Fade: just kidding. I don't have a strong opinion. I switched back to Emacs+SLIME after I got used to the IDE and started missing Emacs 17:37:51 although if I had both money and cancer I'd be heading down to see your health boys in the states. 17:38:35 some non-trivial number of the heavy research people are ex or part-time canucks. 17:38:45 -!- jdz [~jdz@host118-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:38:58 sykopomp: we are!! (-: 17:39:11 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@sma83-1-88-185-8-89.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 17:39:42 antifuchs: there was that VNC incident, but we've put that in the past now ;D 17:39:55 I'll have to look that up (: 17:39:55 antifuchs: I've often wondered which irc culture the 'reversed' smiley comes from. 17:40:11 Fade: mine come from typing convenience on weird keyboards 17:40:21 also, from taking an inside inside joke way too far 17:40:26 ahh 17:40:27 heh 17:40:47 antifuchs: are you australian? ;D 17:40:53 nope (: 17:40:57 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:40:57 boo 17:43:27 Fade: i get weirded out at home when I run slime and see CL-USER in caps though./ 17:44:11 felideon: ...that's happened to me recently when I go home and hack, too. 17:44:19 I remember when the opposite was true :P 17:44:24 MORE CAPS 17:44:56 MORE DERN 17:45:18 minion: chant 17:45:18 MORE DERN 17:46:01 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.144.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:06 -!- b4283 [~b4283@111-254-58-32.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:46:07 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 17:46:07 does allegro default to 'modern' mode now? 17:46:19 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:21 I don't think there's a default. 17:46:22 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 17:46:22 I have several different binaries to run. 17:46:24 You choose what to run. 17:47:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:24 sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:48:42 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:49:07 antifuchs: took me a min to _get_ that 17:49:30 ((-: 17:50:20 and there was much laughter in the office thereafter. 17:50:21 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:22 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-123-53.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:50:22 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:50:38 ianmcorvidae: o/ 17:50:41 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:03 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:06 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.33.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:41 Zhivago: JS rules of parsing/evaluation first construct the whole block, adding all elements to current environment, and only then execute it. With that, it's easy to define functions later, especially since without non-standard optimization, a function call is equivalent of, iirc, (funcall (make-symbol "function-name" ... 17:56:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:55 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:01:48 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.51.106] has joined #lisp 18:05:53 -!- ubii_mobile [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:07 der-rho-ist [~rho@chello213047112079.11.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:07:19 p_l: It's easy enough to do it in anything. 18:07:37 p_l: What was interesting was the consequence of being able to do so. 18:08:14 You could write a version of labels that had the body first, without any difficulty. 18:08:21 Zhivago: An interesting case of that was once mentioned to me in #haskell, similar to how drewc mentioned his programming style 18:09:33 where you'd start by writing th interface, thn start filling up till it startd to compile :-) 18:10:09 p_l|backup: I've been trying to do it purely that way -- and I'm not sure that works too well for me. 18:10:26 I've honestly had more success writing a damn dirty hack first, and extracting an interface when I want/must. 18:10:44 extracting an extensible one* 18:10:50 a-la-AMOP 18:11:06 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-mmyofxpoizwkdunj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:11:59 *sykopomp* wonders if once one is more experienced, writing the defgenerics first is more natural. 18:12:23 sykopomp: well, first it's required in CL conforming code. 18:12:58 pjb: I mean, writing the defgeneric first, instead of just having all DEFUNs. 18:13:02 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.195] has joined #lisp 18:13:06 sykopomp: then, you can also write methods inside the defgeneric form, and this is something you can take advantage of, when you're writing a cohesive function, for which you have all (or most of) the method logically bound. 18:13:08 and -then- refactoring and adding defgenerics. 18:13:19 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-jdgqjabyagdjigft] has joined #lisp 18:13:23 sykopomp: well, it depends if you start with an OO mindframe. 18:13:43 <_3b> pjb: or if you start with a "knowing what you are doing" mindframe 18:14:00 ^ 18:14:45 I guess it's probably not something that changes unless you've solved the problem before. My attempts at just writing defgenerics for what I "think" might be the interface have generally gone pretty badly... 18:16:34 http://grooveshark.com/s/Your+New+Cuckoo/1ATrg?src=5 18:17:17 HumanRemains: Wrong channel. 18:17:26 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:40 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:17:55 <_3b> has anyone here use OpenCL? 18:18:09 besides you? 18:18:15 <_3b> right :p 18:18:22 <_3b> and preferably more than i have :) 18:21:28 OK 18:21:55 wheres my velvetron? 18:22:10 *_3b* can't decide if i should try to add more 'nice & easy to use' to the mid-level API, or just start on the high-level API for cl-opencl 18:22:36 <_3b> or just dump the mid-level API completely for that matter 18:24:46 -!- luis` is now known as luis 18:25:50 jweiss_ [~user@nat/redhat/x-hqdaubdpzdeiksvl] has joined #lisp 18:25:53 _3b: I'm interested in a cl-opencl. My level of expertise will be similar to the one I habitually demonstrate on cl-opengl. :-) 18:26:08 http://grooveshark.com/s/Been+It/NRC1U?src=5 18:26:24 HumanRemains: Why are you posting those links? 18:27:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@144.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:27:19 <_3b> luis: there is enough of one for simple use, just can't get full GPU use out of it in the general case yet, since it doesn't do asynch stuff 18:27:32 <_3b> which is what i'm tryijng to decide how to add now 18:27:51 'cl-opencl' - oh, dear; naming scheme breaking down 18:28:09 <_3b> yeah, working with two CLs at once can be confusing :p 18:28:34 <_3b> and the obvious package (nick)name is already taken :( 18:28:42 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 18:29:33 The obvious name being cl2? ;) 18:29:43 cloacl? 18:30:44 *_3b* meant the one that looks like the prefix on the C function names 18:31:33 *_3b* could always just locally nickname it C: or something i guess 18:31:47 *_3b* likes 1 character local nicknames 18:31:57 _3b: C? ecl and cmucl wouldn't be happy. 18:32:10 <_3b> well, not like they have local nicknames anyway :p 18:32:16 Xach: no; that sounds like a library for either ACLs or sewage treatment 18:32:53 #1=cl-open#1# 18:33:16 Zhivago: generally, half the people are stupid, by definition. 18:33:18 *_3b* isn't sure if using CL as a local nickname would break things or not (in the common case where the package already :USEs the real CL: ) 18:33:54 _3b: If only someone had written a clear and precise description of how such things should work ;) 18:34:18 <_3b> pkhuong: yeah, that's why it only works on my sbcl :p 18:35:00 <_3b> (well, it could work on other people's sbcl too if they were adventurous) 18:35:08 leo2007: the last version of QL is the one you get with (quick-update). Have a look at http://groups.google.com/group/quicklisp/browse_frm/thread/d5311f364501d84 18:36:48 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:38:44 *_3b* should sign up for a bitcoin pool or something, so i can get some fractions of a cent out of this testing :p 18:39:06 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:41:12 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 18:41:56 hi 18:42:38 <_3b> guess i'll start on the high-level API and decide the fate of the mid-level API depending on how the high-level one goes 18:43:02 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7749.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:23 _3b: You are aware of the inner platform concept? ;o) 18:48:53 *_3b* doesn't recognize the term 18:49:09 _3b: push it to github :) 18:49:42 <_3b> luis: https://github.com/3b/cl-opencl-3b you mean? 18:53:18 what does the cl in opencl stand for? 18:53:23 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.27] has left #lisp 18:53:30 <_3b> "compute language" i think 18:58:09 *nod* 19:03:34 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:50 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:04:11 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:04:40 HG` [~HG@p579F7749.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:18 there's also openal and opensl; eventually, presumably, they will run out 19:09:24 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7749.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:05 cheezus [~Adium@206-248-160-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:50 HG` [~HG@p579F7749.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:23 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-40.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:15:50 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-40.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 19:15:59 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-30-40.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:16:25 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 19:19:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:20:11 Ryu__ [462d7513@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.117.19] has joined #lisp 19:20:39 Penis? 19:20:55 hello, i got some questions 19:21:18 i got a fever last week unexpectedly yes, the fever is gone now i got the coughs and extreme dizziness 19:21:38 will these symptoms go away soon too? 19:21:42 slackmeister [~slackmeis@unaffiliated/slackmeister] has joined #lisp 19:22:02 -!- slackmeister [~slackmeis@unaffiliated/slackmeister] has left #lisp 19:22:08 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: but don't be sad.] 19:22:14 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:26 Ryu__: wrong channel. 19:22:42 -_- sorry 19:23:57 Hello lispers! 19:26:24 lol 19:27:49 On SBCL if i have a file named empty-file in a directory contained of other files which are not empty along with one other file named subdir which is a directory how come (directory "/some/path/*") returns ("/some/path/empty-file" "/some/path/subdir/")? 19:27:50 What just happened 19:28:36 mon_key: at a guess, because of how the wild matching works on sbcl. 19:28:54 mon_key: I would guess you'd see all files with *.* (even ones without a . in them) 19:29:05 FWIW (sb-impl::native-file-kind "/some/path/empty-file") -> :file 19:29:23 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:29:46 mon_key: I think your "/some/path/*" matches only things with a pathname-type of NIL. 19:29:58 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:58 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:29:58 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 19:30:30 mon_key: you want to make the pathname-type of your pattern be :WILD, not NIL. 19:32:11 Xach: i'm using only the native-namestring... 19:32:48 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:25 mon_key: Do you understand why a wildcard pattern that has a wild PATHNAME-NAME and a NIL PATHNAME-TYPE does not match /some/path/foo.txt? 19:33:51 Do you understand that "/some/path/*" has a NIL PATHNAME-TYPE? 19:34:05 If you get those two things, you will understand why you got the result you did, I hope. 19:34:17 Ok. thank you :) 19:34:42 -!- symbole [d1bfab0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.191.171.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:27 -!- fourier [~user@213.141.149.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:39:04 So wildcars in DIRECTORY are implementation dependent? 19:40:09 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2413.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:40:09 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-ccqvnzromypdojjv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:27 mon_key: No. 19:41:25 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:41:33 So which is the correct implementation clisp/sbcl? 19:41:39 mon_key: the translation of a namestring to a pathname object is implementation-dependent. 19:41:46 ah got it 19:42:14 And there are other implementation-specific behaviors of DIRECTORY, like whether directories are returned. 19:42:23 benny [~benny@i577A24A4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:35 and symblinks ... 19:42:49 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:42:53 Yep. 19:43:04 thanks again for your input. 19:43:55 mon_key: this might also be illuminating http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-portable-pathname-library.html#listing-a-directory 19:46:12 silenius [~silenus@p4FC22ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:30 phf: Yes, I always forget to look at cl-fad first... 19:46:49 In any event I will stick to sb-impl::native-file-kind for the current task at hand :) 19:47:07 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:47:57 mon_key: why? 19:48:04 mon_key: What is the task? 19:48:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 19:50:43 given a list of file/dirs perform a recursive copy of image files from a local src mountpoint to a remote fusermountd directory checking that both mountpoints are live and filtering any files that don't satisfy checks against their mime/libmagic... i.e. the files need to be "image/; charset=binary" 19:51:14 Destined for installation with buildapp :) 19:51:53 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 19:52:06 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:52:23 (directory "/path/to/**/*.*") will give you a list of all files in a particular directory tree in sbcl. 19:54:25 Yes, I wrote all the file checking stuff first assuming that walking the directory tree would be the easier portion. 19:55:17 yes, it's a one-liner. 19:58:04 mostly, but i thougth it might be nice to be able to check the remote side for presence of existent mirrored directories before blindly initiating the transfer and relying on ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST 19:58:52 mon_key: I'd use cl-fad for that. But I'm biased. 19:59:07 Xach: I wondered if you had given up on #lisp. Good to see you back. 19:59:54 mon_key: you surely are able to do that. 19:59:58 gigamonkey: Likely I will be using a cribbed walk-directory :) 20:00:49 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:01:12 mon_key: Why cribbed? Use quicklisp. Install cl-fad. You're good to go. 20:01:15 rolando [~user@87.116.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:01:16 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has joined #lisp 20:02:38 -!- mmauryc [~mmmau@stu232-227.bard.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:01 gigamonkey: b/c i maybe wanna make walk-directory report when it is descends for logging purposes 20:04:07 You could do that by passing a test function that reports whatever you want and then returns T. 20:04:25 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:04:31 Wait, just do it in the regular function argument. 20:04:44 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:05:09 gigamonkey: yeah I'd forgotten about :test too 1 20:05:15 jjkola [~jjkola@syi-ogw1-3000.syi.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:05:15 ! 20:06:41 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.51.106] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:07:23 jdz [~jdz@host118-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:07:36 -!- cheezus [~Adium@206-248-160-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:07:42 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:08:10 Are any of you coming to the ECLM in Amsterdam? 20:08:34 serichsen: I am. 20:09:54 Great! 20:10:04 *Xach* is speaking, in fact 20:10:24 Heh, yeah, I just realized. :) 20:12:04 gigamonkey: so which is preferred com.gigamonkeys.pathnames or cl-fad? 20:13:36 mon_key: I think that cl-fad is a cleanup of the code from the book. 20:14:21 mon_key: I would generally go with what is available from quicklisp. 20:14:34 :) they are both available 20:15:00 *serichsen* is surprised. 20:15:57 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 alvis [~alvis@71.54.103.115] has joined #lisp 20:19:24 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:21:26 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-156-35.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:04 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:24:46 -!- Ryu__ [462d7513@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.45.117.19] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:25:35 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770F0B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:15 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:26:56 "If it ain't in Quicklisp, it possibly ain't worth using!"® 20:27:13 Words of Truth 20:32:31 "If it ain't in Quicklisp, either you ain't got clearance, or an NDA is obstructing, or it aint worth using!" [: 20:33:50 Or it's an application. 20:35:07 Or someone found a way to sneak it past Apple onto the iphfone and doesn't wanna get found out. 20:35:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:57 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-149-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:38:18 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:39:11 nixfreak [~nix@mailserver.dayport.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:36 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:39:46 does anyone have a link or a tutorial to show how you would program in lisp to add plugin ability 20:40:43 nixfreak: you have read, eval and load. 20:41:00 And unload? 20:41:10 No. 20:41:17 You have to program unload yourself. 20:41:33 is there an example I could look at 20:41:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@host118-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:42:04 nixfreak: I got started on something like this for a project of mine called coleslaw...but didn't get around to unloading support. 20:42:08 nixfreak: why do you not understand it from it's principle. read, eval? load? 20:42:24 pnq [~nick@ACA34254.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:26 I admit it would be cool for someone to produce a library for such functionality... 20:43:09 redline6561_: what's the problem with what PJB is talking about? 20:43:20 ehu: plug-ins. 20:44:23 ehu: Nothing is wrong with it. 20:44:33 -!- Elench` [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:44:34 nixfreak: https://github.com/redline6561/coleslaw/blob/master/plugins/s3.lisp 20:44:47 thx ma 20:44:48 man 20:44:52 nixfreak: Probably not a great example but it could help. Dunno. 20:45:28 Whoops. Almost forgot. 20:45:33 nixfreak: https://github.com/redline6561/coleslaw/blob/master/src/plugins.lisp 20:45:55 ehu: He did ask for an example though. :) 20:46:33 *ehu* reads 20:47:52 any hunchentoot-based project. Each dispatcher is a plugin, and, at the end, you just call hunchentoot's main function. 20:48:17 pkhuong +1 20:48:18 -!- RwarDoome [~resu@97.72.154.166] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:49:25 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06a1c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 20:49:42 -!- phf [~user@75.150.171.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:47 you could also just keep a hashtable of functions. 20:49:56 or to get fancy, 'plugin description objects' 20:50:29 with proper load/unload/disable/enable methods, and such. 20:54:31 But you would have to design a plug-in DSL to ensure that you don't leak any lisp object when unloading. 20:54:52 pjb: You lost me a little re: leaks during unload. Can you elaborate? 20:54:58 jdz [~jdz@host108-107-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:55:11 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:18 I take it you don't mean an interface the plugins conform to. 20:55:29 redline6561_: first, loading a file may intern symbols. 20:55:50 loading or executing code may set properties to symbols that were already there. 20:55:56 Ah. Yeah, good point. :-/ 20:56:49 And if your plug-in returns a closure (or any other data), it may be kept around by the main code, and therefore "unloading" will have no effect. 20:57:11 (apart making it difficult to access, and risk a duplicate if you reload it after). 20:58:30 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: good night :-)] 20:59:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:08 Thanks pjb. 21:00:44 nixfreak: I hope some of this discussion was helpful. Ought to help me when I get around to picking coleslaw back up. :) 21:01:03 redline6561_: what you could do instead, if you really want to 'unload' some code, is to fork subprocesses, and load the plugins in children. Then you can kill them. 21:03:46 That's a pretty interesting/creative solution. 21:04:00 Of course I don't have any IPC issues now. The joy of simple apps. :P 21:04:31 -!- elliottcable is now known as otherbody 21:04:43 But I'm much less concerned with unloading than making it easy to enable/disable features at an initial configuration time. For which eval-when, compile-file and load are quite well suited. :) 21:04:49 redline6561_: and then, ifyou design your app as multiple processes communicating thru IP, it has a lot of advantages: modularity, better crash resistance, distributability, etc. 21:05:15 *redline6561_* first grows a brain, then... 21:05:18 See for example, postfix. 21:06:10 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:06:19 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@host108-107-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:10:20 -!- otherbody is now known as elliottcable 21:10:30 em_ [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:28 gabnet [~gabnet@sma83-1-88-185-8-89.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:38 modularity, better crash resistance, distributability Distributable actors on green threads will do better in most cases. 21:11:40 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7749.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12:52 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:14:05 naryl: like erlang supports? :) 21:15:12 I wasn't discussing the high level abstraction layer. 21:16:26 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:17:30 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:34 p_l|backup: That's where I used them first time. 21:22:45 yeah I like erlang nodes 21:23:18 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has left #lisp 21:25:45 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:45 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:25:45 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:27:45 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:06 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|fkn_away_nick 21:28:28 pleenerzeen 21:30:52 I need to interop CL and Erlang, so that CL code would serve as c-nodes 21:31:26 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:32:17 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@pool-173-77-24-106.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:46 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 21:37:46 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 21:37:46 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:40:34 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@syi-ogw1-3000.syi.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 21:41:14 p_l|backup: there are two easy ways. 21:41:33 1- implement CL in erlang, so that you can easily mix CL code and erlang code. 21:41:53 2- have two processes one in erlang, another in CL, communicating thru IP (cf. above). 21:42:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:44:01 pjb: I'm going the second route 21:44:21 assuming the project starts at all 21:44:21 p_l|backup: the first one would be funnier, but I guess you're pressed by time. 21:45:24 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:46:01 p_l|backup: cleric? 21:47:54 Fade: hmm... did it reach functional status? 21:48:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-64.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:49 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:12 not sure, but it's the only erlang in cl project that seemed to still be vital. 21:49:45 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:53 are there any tough spots going route 2? 21:51:43 I might be interested in helping, though it is questionable how much I can help 21:53:21 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:21 littlebobby: not really - I think there's even an official library to handle the protocol, in ANSI C 21:53:41 vert2 [vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:03 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:54:40 -!- ec|fkn_away_nick is now known as elliottcable 21:55:51 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:55:57 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:49 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:36 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-159-34.lns21.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:03:48 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:00 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:04:38 silenius_ [~silenus@p4FC22ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:56 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:05:38 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC22ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:43 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:06:43 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@sma83-1-88-185-8-89.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:07:38 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d0490fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 22:09:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:03 xan_ [~xan@248.Red-83-39-57.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:44 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-104-146.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:41 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:44 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:21:57 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA34254.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:28:08 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:31 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.122.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:27 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:34:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:34:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:36:14 mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has joined #lisp 22:42:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:49 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:45:52 anyone know if it's possible to make USB joysticks vibrate from lisp via sdl? 22:45:54 xenocryst [~napum@c-174-56-110-166.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:29 -!- xenocryst [~napum@c-174-56-110-166.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:46:31 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.209.171] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 22:47:24 blahj [c9138837@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.19.136.55] has joined #lisp 22:47:25 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:06 dto: does SDL export force feedback interface? 22:50:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:09 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-jdgqjabyagdjigft] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:15 -!- blahj [c9138837@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.19.136.55] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:56:52 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 22:59:06 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01:35 -!- dans [~daniel@92.81.77.185] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:04:58 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:05:30 -!- tessier_ [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 23:05:30 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 23:06:48 -!- silenius_ [~silenus@p4FC22ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:45 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:10:33 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:42 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-028.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:12:14 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:16 sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:14:14 p_l|backup: hmm, looks like only sdl1.3 23:16:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:21 mmauryc [~mmmau@stu232-227.bard.edu] has joined #lisp 23:27:59 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [K-Lined] 23:28:25 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:41 sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:32:00 -!- HumanRemains [~RawdealHu@oldwww4.internection.com] has quit [] 23:32:03 pnq [~nick@AC816C12.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:22 HumanRemains [~RawdealHu@oldwww4.internection.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:45 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 23:34:30 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:34:41 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:37:08 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 23:40:35 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:31 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:26 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:57 -!- alvis [~alvis@71.54.103.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]