00:00:13 -!- _6502_ [3e0a0483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.10.4.131] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:02:20 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:03:08 tildeleb [~tildeleb@c-24-7-85-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:08 pkhuong: have you ever used maclisp 00:03:39 I wasn't even born when it still existed. 00:08:12 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:46 denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:20 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:12 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:26 I am trying to work through the CLIM user guide, and in the first example it uses a function (mp:process-run-function... but I've no idea what package mp is. Is that implementation specific for something other than SBCL? 00:14:54 -!- ergo [~ergo@rrcs-67-78-118-45.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:13 pislocide: Yep. You probably want to use the portable library bordeaux-threads. 00:15:38 pislocide: It should have an analogous function. You can get the library with quicklisp...which you should be using if you're not already. ;) 00:16:14 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-90-56.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:17 minion: bordeaux-threads? 00:16:17 bordeaux-threads: Bordeaux-Threads lets you write multi-threaded applications in a portable way. http://www.cliki.net/bordeaux-threads 00:16:18 redline6561: all right. thank you for the information. I will use that. 00:16:37 Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 00:16:39 -!- denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:16:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:16:50 pislocide: I think McCLIM has a wrapper for threads and everything. 00:18:24 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-50-174.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:38 I've installed mcclim, but it doesn't recognize :mcclim as a package, so I used :clim. Are there other packages that I need to be using available by McCLIM? 00:22:48 -!- sellout- [~Adium@98.158.124.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:27:36 so it seems, instead of using (mp:process-run-function "test" #'run-frame-top-level frame), I need to use (bordeaux-threads:make-thread (test :name test))? 00:27:50 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 00:29:19 pislocide: Unless the mp package is somehow created/loaded/provided by mcclim then yes, that's probably the thing to do. 00:29:57 psmore like (make-thread (lambda () (run-frame-top-level frame)) :name "test"). And be wary of assignments to frame. 00:30:42 Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 00:32:24 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.34.98] has joined #lisp 00:33:16 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 00:33:26 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-174-62-239-154.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:26 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:33:29 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:34:09 -!- H4ns````` [~user@p4FFC8D9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:56 H4ns````` [~user@p4FFC8D9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:15 pnq [~nick@172.162.176.212] has joined #lisp 00:36:14 hmm, this is becomming quite an adventure. Thanks again for the information. 00:36:36 how to make sure that something is executed regardless what happens within a block, whether condition is thrown, user quits program etc 00:37:04 should i catch all conditions and then rethrow them? 00:37:16 pislocide: if you're not interested in advancing the state of the art of user interfaces, something more pedestrian like commonqt will probably work better for you. 00:37:22 cnty: unwind-protect. 00:37:38 That might or might not work if you terminate the process. 00:37:47 perfect thanks 00:37:57 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:38:33 denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:52 DelPuerto [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 00:43:25 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has joined #lisp 00:43:31 -!- denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:44:36 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:44:45 xxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.1.251] has joined #lisp 00:47:40 pkhuong: i've been trying to get the libsmokeqt.dylib to build for a few days now. Including building, rebuilding kde4 and still no luck. 00:49:58 pislocide: ah, OS X and Qt is a bit of a mess. I'd try to get as much as possible in binary form from trolltech. 00:50:23 pislocide: There's also cl-gtk2. 00:50:26 *shrugs* 00:50:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:51:24 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:52:13 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 00:53:30 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has joined #lisp 00:54:02 Is there some documentation about quicklisp and buildapp integration? 00:56:28 I guess I will have to learn cl-gtk2. 00:57:12 pislocide: It's nice. 00:57:29 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2A1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:27 pislocide: (mc)clim! 00:59:34 sup 01:03:03 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:03:56 didi: no. Starting from today 00:00 GMT, all the documentation of all the Lisp code has been erased from the internets. 01:04:40 pjb: Let's start fresh! 01:04:54 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has joined #lisp 01:05:56 pjb: of course every lisp coder starts afresh all the time anyway 01:09:21 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:10:53 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 01:11:25 hakkum [~hakkum@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 01:12:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-166.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 01:12:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 01:16:41 -!- Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:03 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has joined #lisp 01:20:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:20:55 So apparently I was able to build something with `buildapp', but I'm now having `warning's from glib. 01:22:11 Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has joined #lisp 01:24:20 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:27:21 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@186.214.253.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:31:56 mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has joined #lisp 01:34:58 superflit [~superflit@71-33-158-83.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:43 Penten [~user@114.255.149.182] has joined #lisp 01:36:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:36:30 kiooeht [~kiooeht@184.154.102.118] has joined #lisp 01:40:04 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:12 nicdev_ [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:02 is the API documentation here : http://trac.common-lisp.net/bordeaux-threads/wiki/ApiDocumentation , all that is available to get started with bordeaux-threads? I am not quite sure if I need (start-multiprocessing) or not. "There is no support for this method on this implementation." I am using SBCL 1.0.49. *supports-threads-p* returns nil. I know I missing something simple for you all, but this is all new to me. 01:44:34 pislocide: *supports-threads-p* is because you're using Mac OSX, I presume. SBCL doesn't build with threads by default on that platform. 01:45:08 On my linux 64-bit install I get t for that, for example. 01:45:54 Also, I'm not seeing any reference to (start-multiprocessing) on that page... 01:47:17 so I need to rebuild sbcl? 01:48:26 pislocide: Doing that or using Clozure CL are both valid options. 01:48:42 Someone smarter than me may be able to suggest other options or which is preferable. 01:49:09 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:57 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:51:55 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:10 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.34.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:54:41 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.34.186] has joined #lisp 01:58:18 thanks redline6561. It is difficult getting this implementation up and going. I was using LW and seemed to be picking up CL quickly, but I wanted to be able to build executables and didn't have $5000. 01:59:41 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00:49 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-68-80-192-44.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:03:54 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05:07 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:06:21 -!- taiyal is now known as octogon 02:07:52 I keep giving my programs too large input and practically freezing up my computer. Is there an CL implementation that (in the REPL) tries to detect if it's in an infinite loop or just taking too darn long (I'm using Clozure currently) or is at least very responsive to interruption from the REPL (C-c C-c)? 02:09:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CE83.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:11:07 zort-: you can rewrite your code to use a recursive version so sbcl/clisp will stop after too much loop. 02:11:44 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 02:11:47 ok 02:11:52 -!- zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 02:11:58 zort- [~eitan@bas1-toronto07-1176122518.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:12:09 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:14:25 Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 02:15:29 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:15:30 DelPuerto [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 02:15:40 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:49 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 02:17:51 daimrod: what? 02:19:29 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:19:33 zort-: C-c C-c should work; if not, you can try in *inferior-lisp*. Although, if the issue happens when printing the result, it that might really worsen responsiveness. In that case, carefully setting *print-circle*, *print-length*, *print-level*, etc. will help. 02:20:29 ive fallen 02:20:35 im just joking... 02:21:08 (but it works) 02:21:26 daimrod: not always. 02:22:10 I also don't see how it would work more on clisp or sbcl than on ccl. 02:22:29 I dont know ccl 02:24:12 And if you don't use tailrec I don't see why it won't work. 02:27:39 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-90-56.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:28:03 pkhuong: It works but very delayed; usually I have to (painfully) switch to a shell and kill the lisp process. 02:32:16 fbass [~zac@71-222-128-153.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:40 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-251-104.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:06 didi` [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 02:43:25 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:30 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.205] has quit [Remote 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:element-type (type (integer 0 9))) ? 06:45:18 -!- mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:46:01 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 06:46:04 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 06:46:10 <_6502_> :element-type '(integer 0 9)) ? i mean 06:46:53 <_6502_> 0.424 seconds (with element type) against 0.294 seconds without 06:47:53 maybe because with type it has to set up type-checking 06:48:19 <_6502_> even with (optimize (speed 3)(safety 0)) ? 06:48:34 oh right. hm. not sure then. 06:48:40 for that it shouldn't type-check ... is that sbcl? 06:48:50 <_6502_> yes, sbcl 06:49:15 you could try (integer 0 255) or (unsigned-byte 8) or fixnum as type 06:50:19 _6502_: Look at the upgraded array element type. 06:50:28 <_6502_> flip214: with :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) is faster than with (integer 0 9), but still slower than without element-type 06:50:34 with fixnum? 06:50:42 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Client Quit] 06:50:58 and if your (solve) would ignore whitespace characters you could format the input in a readable way ;) 06:51:10 <_6502_> with fixnum the speed is the same as without :element-type 06:51:32 There's no native support for nybble access on your architecture, so (unsigned-byte 4) vectors are fairly slow. 06:51:53 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-78-147.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:52:04 <_6502_> this makes sense 06:52:11 It gets better when you hit (unsigned-byte 8) and up. After that, it's a question whether the codegen prefers to work with tagged integers or not. 06:52:12 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-12-219.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:52:12 pkhuong: I always thought the name is "nibble"? 06:52:31 <_6502_> and being the final table actually quoted in the macro probably there's no point in telling SBCL the types... it knows even the values... 06:53:10 well, at least from digit-char-p it can derive your expectations of the input 06:53:17 Tagged integers are often faster, but it depends on a lot of things, not least among which the codegen pass, which probably loves its fixnum a bit *too much* for x86oids. 06:54:06 But even simpler would likely be to just work with pairs of coordinates and multiply them to get linear indices, instead of going the other way. 06:54:24 <_6502_> or using a 2d array 06:54:41 <_6502_> but still i need block index from coordinates 06:54:55 _6502_: that's easy if you go with a 4-d hypercube. 06:55:25 *_6502_* doesn't get it 06:55:43 I don't remember where I found that trick, but sudoku boards are actually pretty naturally represented as 4-dimensional hypercubes (3x3x3x3). 06:56:01 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@212.Red-79-156-245.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:56:09 <_6502_> indeed i saw some code using large matrices... i didn't investigate however 06:56:11 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:56:19 <_6502_> matrices of bits, actually 06:56:28 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 06:56:41 <_6502_> 9am: time to go to work... 06:56:44 <_6502_> see ya 06:56:59 a nice concidence is that 4 values in [0, 2] fits just right in 8 bits. 06:57:10 -!- fgump [~fgump__@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:57:22 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:59:09 -!- _6502_ [3e0a0483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.10.4.131] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 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[~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:32:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:33:42 easyE [jsSwvtKTyd@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:14 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 11:40:42 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 11:40:50 denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:00 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.42.42] has joined #lisp 11:43:43 Is there any simple way to split string into list? 11:43:55 Where separator is a char or string. 11:44:05 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 11:45:03 split-sequence or cl-ppcre and similar 11:45:16 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:29 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:47:51 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 11:47:58 I guess that's a favourite for a FAQ ... 11:48:12 217 results for this IRC channel and split-sequence: http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Accl.clozure.com+inurl%3A%2Firc-logs%2Flisp%2F+split-sequence 11:48:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:48:54 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:50:22 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:52:41 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440917.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:04 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:57:28 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:57:46 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 12:00:09 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:02:23 chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:03:25 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:48 urandom__ [~user@p548A2158.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:15:48 i just saw that make-array can make 0-dimensional arrays, what are those? id be glad to hear an example when theyre useful 12:15:54 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-52-214.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:16:53 Well, you could think of a normal variable as being like the cell of a zero dimensional array. 12:17:09 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:39 what bothers me, is that aref cant access those elements(it is somewhat expected, since the array is 0 dimensional) 12:19:50 <_3b> why not? 12:19:59 <_3b> (aref 0d-array) -> value 12:20:11 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:22 aham 12:20:40 well, thx 12:21:49 Zhivago: i tried a couple of priority queue implementations, but for the sizes i was interested in, they all turned out to be quite slower than my list-based priority queue 12:22:33 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:22:43 I'm trying to use Swank with ECL; but on the first error (eg. misspelled function name) ECL quits. 12:22:58 What sizes are you interested in? 12:23:01 Does ECL need some configuration I'm missing? 12:23:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:24:22 well, not more than a couple hundred elements 12:24:33 And what implementations did you try? 12:24:48 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:24:53 i tried pjb's, cl-heap, and pileup 12:25:59 On average, how large? 12:26:40 *debugger-hook* is set to # ... so it's not this http://osdir.com/ml/lisp.ecl.general/2006-02/msg00011.html 12:26:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-106.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:27:23 hm, lets say 1-200 12:27:41 njoh [~njoh@94.182.67.90] has joined #lisp 12:27:42 So, on average? 12:27:45 yep 12:27:49 20? 12:28:05 no, id say 100 on avergae too 12:28:13 im not sure, but its not like 20, no 12:28:26 Ok. And what about the distribution of keys? 12:28:57 sry, i dont know what that means in this context 12:29:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-27-85.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:29:31 Well, the values by which you want the priority queue to order things. 12:30:27 those range from 0 to a 100, a lot of them can be equal 12:30:57 Just use a vector of length 101. 12:31:12 Push the values into the correct positions. 12:31:14 it is used to pick the most promising element from an "open-set" for an a* algorithm 12:31:42 -!- workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:46 i see 12:31:47 Hmmm, swank gives the ECL error back ... but then ECL quits. Any ideas? 12:31:58 but i would need all of them later, if i cant find a path this way 12:31:59 Now your values are sorted for free. 12:32:09 i cant lose elements 12:32:14 You still have all of them -- you have 101 stacks. 12:32:23 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.32.32] has joined #lisp 12:32:28 well, it means i'd need a bigger stack 12:32:32 but yeah, it could work 12:32:48 Now you just need to remember the lowest set element, and when it's exhausted you work your way up. 12:32:54 but im happy with my list for now, if it turns out i need more speed, ill rewrite it 12:32:58 Fair enough. 12:33:36 i can do 20000 full-search(no path) in 1.63 seconds, versus a java guy with 17 seconds on a core i7 12:33:38 :) 12:35:20 I'm guessing the Java guy has a problem with his algorithm 12:35:36 probably 12:35:55 but even if a path can be found i beat him for 0.4 seconds vs. 1 sec 12:39:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oiglovszarhmvjfi] has left #lisp 12:39:29 DelPuerto [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 12:40:13 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-194.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 12:40:57 hey 12:41:22 how do you handle cl-i18n with ASDF? 12:48:40 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 12:49:10 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-18-127.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 12:49:10 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 12:49:47 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@240.pool85-56-66.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:50:16 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA25158.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:51:00 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:21 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 «Since he didn't provide acceptable evidence, God obviously doesn't want me to believe in Him. Thus, out of respect for His will, I don't.» 12:52:22 oops, sorry 12:53:06 pnq [~nick@ACA25158.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:16 (imagine this is a manual twitter to IRC feed) 12:53:32 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-194.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:36 3 13:02:23 gxdssoft [~Hansy@190.43.9.9] has joined #lisp 13:03:07 jdz, it doesn't compile 13:03:29 :) 13:03:57 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:04:33 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.164] has joined #lisp 13:04:34 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:09:03 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:11:10 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.128.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:32 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 13:11:40 -!- Axioplas1_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 13:11:46 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 13:13:30 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 13:14:34 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:47 sellout-1 [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:15:55 -!- joebo [423d7877@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.61.120.119] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:17:24 -!- sellout- [~Adium@98.158.124.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:29 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:19:40 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:20:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:38 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:22:54 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:23:16 G'morning all. 13:24:05 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.164] has joined #lisp 13:25:21 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:25:48 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 13:27:00 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:11 -!- HumanRemains is now known as AdrianGsMom 13:31:14 ChibaPet: night^_^ 13:31:17 -!- AdrianGsMom is now known as HumanRemains 13:32:32 That too, Ugoubuntu. 13:34:48 -!- chu_ [~chu@CPE-58-165-253-149.lns1.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:39:39 -!- fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:39 fds [~frankie@fsf/member/fds] has joined #lisp 13:40:29 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 13:40:43 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:01 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:43:09 loke [~elias@121.6.25.83] has joined #lisp 13:47:38 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:12 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:48:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:49:51 -!- octogon [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:50:12 val227 [~val@host31-14-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:50:31 TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:50:34 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 13:50:37 hi 13:50:51 today i've noticed that if i pass a variable to a function 13:50:55 and change it inside the function 13:51:05 outside the variable is unchanged, and this is pretty normal 13:51:17 hello everyone, i'm a real beginner.(just finished the book:"hacker and painter"). 13:51:19 Do you know any books or documents, which is helpful for people like me to have a deeper understanding of lisp? 13:51:27 but if i pass an array the changed inside the function real modific the array 13:51:27 why? 13:51:47 ugoubuntu: land of lisp might be interesting to you 13:52:42 val227: can you paste the code you are using? 13:53:06 anvandare: thanks that's really helpful~^_^ 13:53:16 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:26 yes 13:53:27 <_3b> when you modify a local variable in a function, you are changing the value bound to that variable 13:53:29 no problem, it won't grant you deep insight into lisp, but that only comes with experience 13:53:47 (defun aaa (x) (setf x 12)) 13:54:01 it doesn't modific the x 13:54:02 <_3b> when you pass an object to a function, it passes the actual object, so modifications to that object are seen outside of the function 13:54:06 ahhh 13:54:13 ok _3b, this is really clear 13:54:25 but a symbol isn't an object? 13:54:34 <_3b> a symbol is an object, but you aren't modifying a symbol 13:54:41 <_3b> or passing a symbol to the function 13:54:48 i'm passing a variable? 13:55:05 <_3b> (defun foo (x) (setf (symbol-value x) 12))) would be modifying a symbol 13:55:13 <_3b> no, you are passing a value 13:55:20 ok 13:55:23 now it's clear 13:55:24 thank u 13:55:44 <_3b> the 'variable' is what hold the value inside the function 13:56:06 -!- gxdssoft [~Hansy@190.43.9.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:18 <_3b> if you change that 'variable' it hold something else 13:56:29 *_3b* wonders where my #\s are going 13:58:45 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:00:09 Hey, is there literature to which someone can direct me describing methods for minimizing GC pauses for applications throwing around large amount of data that are intolerant of pauses? 14:00:21 Specifically involving CCL or SBCL would be ideal. 14:00:22 ChibaPet: preallocate 14:00:35 that's the strategy 14:00:39 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:41 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 14:00:54 Or use a suitable GC. 14:01:20 -!- val227 [~val@host31-14-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 14:01:40 Preallocation, as in, re-use structures rather than reallocating, and so forth? 14:02:27 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA25158.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:02:43 ChibaPet: right 14:02:56 It probably seems blasphemous, but I'd dearly like to manage memory allocation manually for my project. 14:03:24 I guess preallocating will get me close to that. 14:04:00 also declaring things as dynamic-extant will help some 14:04:19 silenius [~silenus@p4FC2382C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:23 manual memory allocation won't help you that much 14:04:32 allocation still isn't free 14:04:48 No, not free, but the point would be making deallocation very granular. 14:05:08 yeah, I've wished for memory pools in the past too 14:05:40 I'm frightened of a large hunk of time going away while some hunk of code outside of my control tries to decide whether something is garbage or not, when I can simply tell it and save it the trouble. 14:05:54 if you want some insanity, you could just call malloc() and free() via FFI 14:06:09 and declare all your data as C types 14:06:25 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.204.33] has joined #lisp 14:07:02 That's not complete insanity. It'd be more pleasant than actually doing this stuff in C. 14:07:28 Do you have a reference for dynamic-extent? Google is fighting me. 14:07:42 what is this stuff anyway ? 14:07:45 just curious 14:07:55 The only reference I'm finding so far is something you said in some IRC log from 2009. :P 14:08:11 18:40:54 auclairb: have you tried (let ((neg-z-coord (- (rc-z coordinates)))) (declare (dynamic-extant neg-z-coord)) ... )? 14:08:26 ChibaPet: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Dynamic_002dextent-allocation.html 14:08:30 ty 14:08:52 ChibaPet: keep in mind that a) it's a promise to the compiler and Bad Things will happen if you lie 14:09:02 and b) it may not actually save anything 14:09:04 Shouldn't that be "extent", not "extant"? 14:09:11 it should 14:09:13 yes. typo 14:09:16 extent in the docs 14:09:40 So, is preallocation how people control GC timing in practise generally? 14:10:10 I need to understand GC guts in greater detail I think. 14:10:25 yeah, most GCs don't actually trigger until you try to allocate something 14:10:35 alternately, you could just turn it off 14:11:04 Memory is cheap. As long as you don't allocate too many temporaries of your large dataset, it may be worthwhile 14:11:14 Is it possible to cause GC to happen more frequently? I don't mind giving it cycles. I can conceive of being able to tell it to limits its total impact. 14:11:46 sure. implementation specific 14:11:47 dynamic-extant sounds like the start of a "machine ontology" 14:11:51 I was reading at the end of the week about GC that works concurrently, with no pause, but with a slower total operation as a result. 14:12:21 Not sure what CCL and SBCL have that way. I suspect I should try to find their implementation-specific docs. 14:12:29 ChibaPet: my experience is that you never know until you have tried with real data. I'd therefore try and see if there is a problem in practice 14:12:37 tfb, agreed 14:12:48 (sb-ext:gc) I think 14:12:49 I'm just trying to be aware of architectural implications. 14:13:15 ChibaPet: I used to spend ages stressing about this kind of thing, only to discover that was a non-problem 14:13:22 -!- drforr is now known as DrForr 14:13:32 Hopefully it'll end up being just that for me. :) 14:14:04 I guess the pleasant side is that my project isn't on a schedule, and hence can afford as much exploration as I want to give it. 14:16:08 (It's boring in its ubiquity... Yet another MMORPG, single shard ala Eve Online, with a goal of effectively no downtime. But I don't really want to use Erlang, as I want to share code between server and client, and I can't see Erlang being ideal for desktop clients at the moment.) 14:17:38 Well, just write it in javascript, then. :) 14:18:14 Pleasingly, I was able to turn my head in time that I didn't splash stomach acids onto my keyboard. Please give some warning,f irst, Zhivago. 14:18:45 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:19:06 so that* 14:19:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 14:20:04 Madsy [~madman@188.113.83.44] has joined #lisp 14:20:04 -!- Madsy [~madman@188.113.83.44] has quit [Changing host] 14:20:04 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 14:20:22 ChibaPet: eve solved that problem with python 14:20:25 have you looked at clojure ? JVM means no sweat over platforms and nice quiet GC with the right settings 14:20:39 also awesome concurrency 14:20:52 (causing them endless trouble on MacOS, because they trustingly believed that Apple wouldn't change the default python at one point, so used it) 14:21:33 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:21:42 TDT_ [~TDT@dhcpw80ff91d6.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:21:42 Eve has been moving away from Python as it's failed to scale for hotspots. 14:21:44 tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 14:21:47 -!- TDT_ [~TDT@dhcpw80ff91d6.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:21:53 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:21:58 Should have gone with javascript :) 14:22:00 I've thought about Clojure a little. I want to compile to metal. 14:22:02 heh 14:22:19 CL seems ideal. Although I see there's an Erlang SDL project now. But that's still a VM. 14:22:44 Amusingly, clojure and v8 javascript have about the same performance. 14:23:08 that makes a lot of sense somehow 14:23:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:23:36 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has quit [Client Quit] 14:24:13 Well, they're both about ten times faster than cpython. 14:24:44 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:24:55 The only thing I miss in CL is a featherweight thread implementation and nice message passing constructs 14:25:18 That seems like something that can be largely written as part of the app. 14:25:31 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:25:35 dlowe: What would you use the lightweight threads for? I'm curious, as I find the concept really interesting, but I can't really see many uses for it 14:25:36 My general model will be few threads working serially. 14:25:47 Presumably he wants coroutines. 14:26:02 loke, microthreads can be assigned to handle socket connections, for instance 14:26:07 loke: it can be used pervasively 14:26:08 think of a web server 14:26:46 Perl's Coro seems useful as well, but every time I think of using Perl for the project, I cringe, as I've been wanting to do something really serious in Lisp for over 20 years now. 14:26:58 The problem there is that they don't scale -- what you really want are featherweight processes. 14:27:12 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:27:25 That's a criticism I've seen of Clojure. No support for microthreads. 14:27:52 I'd recommend avoiding threads entirely. 14:27:52 I've been tinkering with Go. The signal model is that you read from a channel for a signal object, which blocks until you get a signal 14:28:22 So for a signal handler, you start a goroutine and read from the incoming signal channel 14:28:27 Zhivago, that's my plan. One thread or process per core, and everything handled by queueing work serially otherwise. 14:28:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:53 dlowe, how does that differ from the Erlang model? Or is it the same? 14:29:02 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:18 tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 14:29:43 ChibaPet: It's different in many ways, but Erlang was the pioneer for microthreads, so the comparison is apt 14:29:57 Erlang doesn't have microthreads. 14:30:02 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.178.204.33] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:30:02 It has micro-processes. 14:30:08 Zhivago: good point 14:30:09 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 14:30:15 Is there a distinction? 14:30:23 yeah, threads share memory space 14:30:30 No implicit propagation of side-effects. 14:30:31 Alright, good point. 14:30:54 Another thing javascript got right. :) 14:30:56 it has to be that way for erlang, because of its "transparent distribution" 14:31:08 It has to be that way for anything that wants to scale. 14:31:51 Otherwise you're limited by your shared memory model. 14:32:53 So Go has microthreads, but channels are so useful that you end up not accessing shared structures very much 14:32:54 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:26 well, you could abstract the memory model itself 14:34:58 Sure -- you can abstract it in terms of message passing. 14:35:16 In which case you need to consider failure of delivery semantics for each and every memory access. 14:35:30 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-50-126-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:38:32 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:39:04 then use precaching and versioning... 14:39:26 basically like a CPU cache 14:39:41 The problem is that the operations have different semantics. 14:39:59 There's no benefit in trying to hammer one into the hole shaped like the other. 14:40:49 The most fundamentally important point is that a process fails coherently. 14:40:56 But a distributed system doesn't. 14:41:30 Which means that distributed systems resist the benefits of static analysis. 14:41:53 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 14:42:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:42:23 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-emxuymawzoizrycc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:28 e.g., inside a process if you say (setf x 1) you can be sure that it won't spontaneously unbind itself. 14:42:50 In a distributed system, you can't, because the substrate for x might have failed without your substrate failing. 14:43:51 So you need to use approaches like compare-and-swap via messages. 14:44:08 -!- drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:44:27 Instead of knowing how the world is, you need to carry the relevant model with you to test before acting. 14:45:53 substrate meaning the "original" location of x ? if x is decentralized it doesn't matter. I just timestamp it locally and anyone nearby who cares will pick up on it 14:46:15 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:47:25 Timestamps aren't sufficient. 14:47:37 Imagine that you want to increment a counter. 14:47:43 drunkk [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:48 -!- sellout [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:53 And this counter is on a remote machine. 14:48:04 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:48:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:49:38 You need to have an expectation of its current value. 14:49:44 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-134-9-59.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 14:50:06 If you don't, then there's no way to know if it has been corrupted. 14:50:36 Given that expectation you can then test your expectation, and modify it, or fail and update your expectation. 14:50:48 But in order to do that, you need somewhere reliable to keep your expectation. 14:50:55 ramus [~ramus@99.23.128.50] has joined #lisp 14:51:16 Fortunately the inside of a process is such a reliable space. 14:51:37 If the local machine fails, then your expectation will fail at the same time as the expectee. 14:51:52 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:46 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:55:56 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-168.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 14:56:47 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 14:57:22 cracauer [~Adium@nat/google/x-gokxecselsjyoibw] has joined #lisp 14:57:41 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.199.177] has joined #lisp 15:01:43 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.86] has joined #lisp 15:01:55 hargettp_ [~hargettp_@dhcp-161.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-181-173.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:04:39 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:55 sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #lisp 15:08:43 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:52 -!- levi` is now known as levi 15:14:48 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 15:15:33 Wiallim [~Lambda@113.139.184.89] has joined #lisp 15:18:34 alexey_z [~alexey_z@ppp85-141-157-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:19:38 louis418 [~louis@cm218-253-158-90.hkcable.com.hk] has joined #lisp 15:20:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:25:52 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:46 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.32.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:15 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.32.32] has joined #lisp 15:30:23 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:31:01 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003d68.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:29 pnq [~nick@172.129.18.144] has joined #lisp 15:33:54 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:36:09 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-91.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:38 -!- sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:46:49 -!- cracauer [~Adium@nat/google/x-gokxecselsjyoibw] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:47:06 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@222.209.32.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:48:45 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:50:07 -!- denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:52:03 when I get an invalid array index error, is there a way to find the exact place in the source code that signaled the error ? 15:52:41 slime prints me a backtrace from a foreign function (a compiled function I suppose), not really useful 15:52:41 galdor: are you using slime? 15:52:44 yes 15:53:10 galdor: well, find the last lisp code frame in backtrace, and press v on that 15:54:59 jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:55:01 I get: 15:55:02 Error: The value # 15:55:02 is not of type 15:55:03 SB-DI::COMPILED-DEBUG-FUN. 15:55:31 that's the only frame? 15:55:40 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:55:42 is there some kind of debug flag to activate ? 15:56:19 well the backtrace is: http://paste.lisp.org/display/123203 15:56:26 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56:29 galdor: you can compile stuff with maximum debug setting using prefix argument (like C-u C-c C-c) 15:57:43 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:35 C-u C-c C-c doesn't allow me to use 'v' either 15:59:08 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:27 denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:47 <_8david> which operating system? 16:00:11 -!- Wiallim [~Lambda@113.139.184.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:13 homie [~root@xdsl-78-35-143-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:12 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:44 'v' is broken quite often, e.g. inside itearate and other macros that don't keep sexp identity 16:03:16 <_8david> I can believe that, but you can't really blame 'v' for not working on a foreign frame. The real issue here is that the stacktrace is cut off. 16:03:31 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 16:04:19 <_8david> if 16:04:40 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:03 <_8david> that's not Darwin, there's probably reason to be concerned about it; backtracing from signal handlers usually works elsewhere. 16:05:06 sbcl on linux 16:05:18 x86_64 16:05:43 <_8david> can you supply a self-contained test case? 16:07:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:07:36 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:56 mhh yeah 16:08:54 galdor pasted "fov" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/123204 16:09:11 evaluating (rune::fov-test 4 2 20) triggers the problem 16:09:24 well (fov-test 4 2 20), here it's not in a package 16:09:47 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:37 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-tlnldirnbrdxesld] has joined #lisp 16:10:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:21 bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:33 xan_ [~xan@219.Red-83-39-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:09 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:20 -!- louis418 [~louis@cm218-253-158-90.hkcable.com.hk] has quit [Quit: ] 16:18:17 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:19:09 DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:43 -!- trigen [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:20:36 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:22:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:23:26 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:24:00 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 16:24:24 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:27 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 16:26:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:27:10 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC2382C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:34 HG` [~HG@p5DC0512C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:26 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:35:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:36:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:54 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:37:43 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 16:41:09 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-168.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:41:12 -!- gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-168.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 16:43:02 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:43:32 kenjin [~user@2.83.71.31] has joined #lisp 16:47:15 -!- kenjin [~user@2.83.71.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:46 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:48:20 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-zdzfughhzmixwqek] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:54 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 16:49:41 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:52 tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 16:52:45 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 16:53:50 <_8david> galdor: hmm, works for me 16:54:08 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 16:57:11 you mean you get a backtrace which can be used to find where the error is signaled ? 16:59:28 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:01:10 <_8david> right. Complete stacktrace, and 'v' capability. 17:01:43 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003d68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:21 <_3b> galdor: don't suppose you have been running any code that declaims (debug 0) lately? 17:03:00 <_8david> Even with zero DEBUG I get a sane stacktrace; the change is that 'v' goes to the function rather than the exact form. 17:03:16 as far as I know I didn't not 17:03:35 <_3b> ah, nevermind then 17:03:45 galdor: how old is that SBCL? 17:03:46 *_3b* just wondered since some was pasted earlier 17:03:47 try reloading your image, cull stale fasls? 17:04:04 it's sbcl 1.0.49 17:04:16 ok, gonna try with a fresh image and no existing fasl files 17:05:09 sacho [~sacho@87.126.39.0] has joined #lisp 17:05:57 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:08:23 tildeleb [~tildeleb@c-24-7-85-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:43 exact same result 17:10:05 well perhaps one of the system I use set (debug 0) for all functions 17:11:02 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:07 <_8david> sb-c::*policy* would tell. But as I mentioned, zero debug shouldn't cause a problem with backtraces from a signal handler AFAIK. 17:11:44 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:45 <_8david> 1.0.44.26 here, recentish debian testing 17:12:01 same here. 17:12:12 <_3b> yeah, tried here on .49 and couldn't get it to break either 17:12:14 on 1.0.49.xx 17:12:27 <_3b> .49.79 rather 17:12:31 pkhuong: I recently saw one of the sbcl tests hang. I believe it was a defclass concurrently test and it looks like someone may have just filed a bug about it. I haven't seen this failure before. 17:12:57 reb: cool. 17:13:03 *_3b* filed that the other day i think 17:13:10 <_3b> it is actually 2 tests overlapping 17:13:40 I guess my point is that some recent change may have triggered it. 17:13:58 ... since the bug reporter and I both noticed it around the same time. 17:14:23 <_3b> yeah, i assumed it was just really rare or something, not new... guess maybe not :/ 17:15:00 I think I saw it twice, and had never seen it happen before. 17:15:11 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:16:37 in I think there's something wrong generally, not just for this code, it's definitely not the first time I'm unable to get a useful backtrace 17:17:25 dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 17:17:48 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:26 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 17:22:00 Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:29 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:24:05 I can currently think of two ways this could affect only your install: you're actually running something older than 1.0.49, or the toolchain used to build the runtime doesn't obey -fno-omit-frame-pointer. 17:26:25 -!- tsuru` is now known as tsuru 17:26:49 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:32:22 cracauer [~Adium@74.125.59.113] has joined #lisp 17:34:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:27 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:35:08 if the toolchain was build with -O2 will -fomit-frame-pointer or -fno-omit-frame-pointer take effect ? 17:35:19 or rather cause trouble ? 17:36:05 i mean the runtime case again 17:37:35 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 17:38:32 -!- ChongLi` [~user@dslb-092-076-084-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 17:39:01 it's the archlinux package, it seems that it has been built with -O2 17:42:10 i think i read somewhere most distro stuff get's built this way.... 17:42:15 with -O2 i mean 17:42:32 and that -fomit-frame-pointer or so is then useless... 17:42:34 the makefile explicitly sets -O3 and -fno-omit-frame-pointer. 17:42:34 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.168] has joined #lisp 17:43:47 -!- tildeleb [~tildeleb@c-24-7-85-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tildeleb] 17:49:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:55 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-ftzfnpknxnbvryih] has joined #lisp 17:54:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56:59 tritchey_ [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 17:57:21 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:57:21 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 17:59:11 -!- gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:22 -!- nicdev`` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:00:03 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:45 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:10 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 18:01:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:17 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:02:57 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC0512C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:05:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.172.199.177] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:06:48 cheezus [~Adium@206-248-160-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:06 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-39-232-220.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:37 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:08:37 symbole [d1bfab0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.191.171.11] has joined #lisp 18:09:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:26 -!- talyz [~user@2001:67c:2a0:9:216:3eff:fe6b:13eb] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:11:06 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:07 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-xzvgbkwspswzcvds] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:16:51 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:16:59 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:35 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:41 -!- legumbre` is now known as legumbre 18:26:30 -!- nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:30:38 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.27] has joined #lisp 18:33:11 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:41 -!- bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:03 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:40:04 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634389.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:45:14 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-184-32-7-148.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:16 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:02 -!- alexey_z [~alexey_z@ppp85-141-157-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:09 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:46 gadek [~konrad@83.142.184.59] has joined #lisp 18:55:02 Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has joined #lisp 18:56:14 -!- njoh [~njoh@94.182.67.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:02 hi 19:01:59 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:02:41 im going much serious about CL day by day and im searching for really active Open Projects. 19:03:05 and unfortunately dont know these groups well 19:05:02 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 19:05:10 -!- nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:32 anyone got an idea ? 19:05:50 CL-Gardeners might still exist. 19:05:56 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:16 Hm, then again, perhaps not. 19:06:39 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:14 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:07:35 ChibaPet: not just communities i meant, projects etc 19:07:49 That was a clearinghouse of projects at one point. 19:08:57 seem's there is no one in that channel 19:09:15 No, it seemed moribund. 19:10:43 yeah their website's update is also for 2010 19:12:35 so, are CL active project's so rare nowadays ? 19:12:47 Yes. 19:13:02 -!- ec|fkn_a1ay_nick is now known as elliottcable 19:13:08 Basically,since January 1st 2011, all CL projects droped dead. 19:13:27 Night-hacks: so your only choice is to revive one by working on the one you like. 19:13:51 HG` [~HG@p5DC0512C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:03 pjb: are you serious about that time ? 19:14:14 It was called The Great CL Deading. 19:14:39 sarcasm died on the internet. 19:15:10 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 19:15:15 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:54 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:16:58 Fade: sorry, a bit confused ! 19:18:12 pjb was being sarcastic 19:18:55 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:19:18 that's good sometime ! but doesn't works for new comers ! 19:21:03 -!- gadek [~konrad@83.142.184.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:21:08 Night-hacks: what are you interested in? 19:21:31 #lisp is not particularly newcomer oriented, but you can learn a lot here if you stick through it. :) 19:22:20 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:22:28 tali713: of course anything, but rather active project's. 19:23:10 levi: i've learned a lot here, that's why im still here ! 19:24:16 Night-hacks: that is very unhelpful. surely you have some interest in using lisp for a specific thing? 19:26:02 tali713: webserver's (core) are real fun but i dont know if i'll face Threading issues, im not good at CL threading yet. 19:27:52 hmmm, maybe a different tack would work... /why/ do you want to find an active project? 19:29:41 Night-hacks: the point is rather that 1- open projects are as active as you are on them. 2- in the lisp world, time scales are different. We're using a programming language that is 52 years old, and that is not used on a big scale by the "industry", so resources are limited therefore progress is slow (but still quite noticeable with the naked eye). 19:30:29 tali713: you've always updated TODO list's and people to collaborate with, and that makes much sense 19:33:17 Night-hacks: so you want to be involved in a community of some sort then? have you looked at http://www.cliki.net/ ? 19:33:40 TeMPOraL [~user@cpc12-oxfd18-2-0-cust64.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:55 pjb: that's why im asking, cause cant find these resources easily on Net. 19:34:18 hello lispers! 19:34:48 Night-hacks: http://cliki.net/ http://common-lisp.net/ 19:35:07 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:22 Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 19:35:33 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:35:47 Am wondering if there is an existing sbcl function to perform the equivalent of unix' cp -r 19:36:01 thanks, must checkem 19:36:38 mon_key: in cersarum, there's a copy-file. So basically: (mapcar (lambda (f) (copy-fie f ...)) (directory "**/*.*")) 19:36:41 -!- naiv_ [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-43-42.w86-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:12 pjb: thanks will look 19:37:14 -!- benny [~benny@i577A86B1.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:37:52 pjb: does clisp include anything like this pre-packaged? 19:37:56 gadek [~konrad@83.142.184.59] has joined #lisp 19:38:19 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:38:29 benny [~benny@i577A8B86.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:40 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 19:38:54 antgreen [~user@CPE00259c01a935-CM00186845e694.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:23 Yes: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum) (describe 'com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:copy-file) 19:39:43 pjb: the use case(s) are that of late i'm needing to write shell scripty stuff and its leaving me with a dirty feeling each time... I would prefer to do this stuff from a scripted Common lisp. 19:39:56 pjb: Ok 19:42:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-110.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:43:56 -!- Night-hacks [~nullpoint@95.38.52.69] has left #lisp 19:44:12 mon_key: well, CL file operators are not made to access every file on the underlying file system. So if you want cp -r , you better use (ext:shell "cp -r ..."). 19:44:26 -!- gadek [~konrad@83.142.184.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:44:46 mon_key: but if you don't care about strange named files, you can do it in lisp too. 19:44:49 Yeah. I'm looking at cesarum copy-file's element-type right now :) 19:46:11 francogrex [~user@109.130.119.83] has joined #lisp 19:47:50 guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.186.146] has joined #lisp 19:48:28 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87fbfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:35 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:50:33 I am going for a job interview this week; It was advertised as a python job, i wrote that I know almost nothing of python and a little of lisp and that with my little knowledge of lisp I can convince them that they'll never need python again! lol 19:50:40 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00259c01a935-CM00186845e694.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:12 sounds like a bad idea 19:51:56 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:05 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:52:24 francogrex: they actually called you to an interview even though you said you pretty much know no python? 19:52:37 well, I wasn't that direct to be honest i told them that I can bring more than a python programmer can. let's see 19:52:57 francogrex: I think they will be deeply disappointed. 19:53:03 schmrkc: the python I know is a little debbing with clpython but that's almost nothing 19:53:16 /debbing/dabbing 19:53:27 guidj0s: why? i was honest totally 19:53:45 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:53:49 francogrex: well congrats on getting called to an interview. 19:53:52 francogrex: No, you weren't. You cannot deliver a superset of what a python program can deliver. 19:53:57 pjb: Happy to report that on sbcl 1.47 from the slime-repl buffer cesarum:copy-file with :element-type '(unsigned-byte) works fine moving a jpeg from a local mountpoint to a destination on a fuse mounted sshfs 19:53:58 they want: a python programmer; you are not: a python programmer 19:53:59 programmer, even. 19:54:04 I think they seem open minded 19:54:48 I'd recommend contacting them and cancelling. That'd be the moral thing to do. 19:54:55 francogrex: you still cannot deliver a superset of what a python programmer can, no matter how open-minded they are. 19:55:05 they might figure that you are teachable. 19:55:17 tali713: certainly 19:55:32 I think that's one of the reason, they saw my CV 19:56:06 I hope there was more in it than "a lil' bit of lisp, and next to no python".. or else I'd not have that high hopes for the company :) 19:56:59 schmrkc: Unless it's a "this guy must be retarded - call him in and let's laugh at him" scenario 19:57:02 which happens 19:57:08 on the other hand, they might just be amused and want to find out what you can come up with. 19:58:20 KindWord [~KindWord@unaffiliated/kindword] has joined #lisp 19:58:48 all is possible, though I have a very solid CV because I'm more than a programmer. I have managerial experience, business and a Cv that shows that i am a fast learner... anyway as I said they're nothing comiited yet beyond let's see 19:59:42 The way I'd have approached that would be to cram in Python syntax and colloquial expression starting from the moment you knew they might be interested. 20:00:12 ChibaPet: which i stared doing, I am clpython now 20:00:17 started 20:00:20 ugh 20:00:24 screw clpython. 20:00:55 no, it's very good 20:01:00 I guess clpython is a Python interpreter in Common Lisp. 20:01:34 serichsen: yup. 20:02:27 serichsen: it tries to be up to date with python 2.x 20:02:52 I thought it was a python to CL compiler 20:02:53 gadek [~konrad@83.142.184.59] has joined #lisp 20:03:46 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-168.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:53 nope... it's a python implementation. 20:04:29 have you guys written anything exciting in python recently? 20:04:35 lisp, sorry 20:05:14 yes it's implementation. I'm surprised to see on this forum some people who seem skeptical of the superiority of lisp. knowledge of lisp should be established as an asset 20:05:34 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:05:39 Superiority for what? 20:05:57 No one's talking about whether Lisp is superior or not. I think the general feeling is that the company may well not realize that you aren't a Python programmer. 20:06:04 superiority for looking down your nose at everything else 20:06:05 KindWord: haha, yes (: 20:06:10 some need refreshers: http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html 20:06:27 sigh 20:06:35 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.171] has joined #lisp 20:06:35 if you are not convinced if this then i don't know what the hell you're here for 20:06:35 Isn't religion fun!? 20:06:55 Can't we just write some codes instead? 20:06:57 yes, of course, lisp is superior to everything. Just no one has realized it, or some multibillion dollar industry is opressing it. 20:07:09 arrogancki lispnik beatnik averaczki? 20:07:24 KindWord: define "exciting"? 20:07:32 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:07:40 antifuchs: Where did you learn such good Polish :)? 20:07:42 antifuchs what'd it do? :) 20:07:43 no, some industries have smart people who read and know 20:07:54 antoszka: soup.io! (-; 20:08:00 *antifuchs* giggles 20:08:08 francogrex: What made google rich? lisp or python? 20:08:18 KindWord: I'm working on a nice graph database implemented in lisp (: 20:08:22 (allegrograph) 20:08:24 probably c++ schmrkc :P 20:08:35 KindWord: could be! 20:08:36 nice antifuchs :) 20:08:39 hi, where do I put (declare (optimize (debug 3))), if I want to apply it to the whole package? 20:08:54 ChibaPet, they know i'm not. they're just interested in talking to me anyway. 20:09:04 KindWord: I'm just thinking that working at a python shop, like francogrex applied for, then lisp seems a very inferior choice. 20:09:21 KindWord: unfortunately I still only use it for personal toys; but among those are an irc bot and a software synthesizer for ECL+NetBSD lately 20:09:36 (15:52:37) francogrex: well, I wasn't that direct to be honest i told them that I can bring more than a python programmer can. let's see 20:09:46 schmrkc: who said it's a python shop. we don't know yet 20:10:02 But I gain nothing from pursuing that. It'll go however it goes. Good luck. 20:10:05 francogrex: well they wanted a python programmer anyway. I suspect they want you to work with python. 20:10:16 *sshirokov* writes lisp at a ruby shop 20:10:21 YMMV 20:10:30 sshirokov: excellent. 20:10:41 puchacz: declaim has greater scope than define 20:10:56 I hope all lispers on the northeast coast of US are ok and not riding on amtrak trains today... 20:10:59 *sshirokov* is writing a mongrel2/0mq application router in it 20:11:09 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 20:11:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-110.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:27 schmrkc: if it's the case then I might not accept 20:11:30 sshirokov: Getting those cl-redis patches upstream? ;) 20:11:43 I need to :O 20:11:46 mon_key, the crash was in Maine. That's north of where you'll find most Lisp programmers. However, it's unfortunate that people were injured regardless of profession. 20:11:55 Haven't cleaned them off yet :( 20:11:58 After this week 20:12:17 ChibaPet: Lots of Yankees take holiday in Maine. 20:12:24 I will go with the mindset that they are not that attached to python but they need a job to be done with whatever and they chose python because it is popular enough 20:12:33 sshirokov: Good stuff. Also, I'm jealous of you sneaking Lisp into work. ;) 20:12:42 Well, one lisper dead has more impact on the lisper community than 100 java monkeys dead has on the java community... 20:12:45 *redline6561_* 's CL chops languish at CMG 20:12:56 pjb, true 20:13:11 phadthai: so where to put it? say, for the whole system (as in defsystem) 20:13:13 francogrex: Well I wish you luck anyway. 20:13:17 pretty sure Xach has family in Maine... 20:13:18 ChibaPet when I said direct, I mean I didn't tell them "fuck python" or something that blunt 20:13:27 thanks 20:13:44 redline6561_: :( 20:13:53 Convince them to use my crap once I opensource it :P 20:14:00 LOL! 20:14:08 Yeah, I'll try. 20:14:15 I pitched it there, didn't get time to write it :( 20:16:20 puchacz: hmm I place it at the top of modules/files here 20:16:22 sshirokov: what crap? 20:16:35 phadthai: every file? 20:17:00 francogrex: Mongrel2/ZeroMQ application router with an infinite-length request buffer 20:17:10 puchacz: if I remember for some implementations it's also best to put it into an eval-when 20:17:18 why do you call it crap? 20:17:24 -!- gadek [~konrad@83.142.184.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:17:32 phadthai: thx 20:17:38 puchacz: sure; it can also be nice to have per-function changes with declare 20:17:42 francogrex: I use "crap" interchangeably with "stuff" far too often :( 20:17:45 zfx [~zfx@host86-141-56-149.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:45 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-141-56-149.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:17:45 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 20:18:15 phadthai: eval-when? isn't the whole point that it takes effect exactly at compile time? 20:18:16 ok. Because you should be proud of everything you produce. 20:18:39 puchacz: i.e. especially with the safety setting, often you don't want to apply it to the whole file but to specific well tested functions 20:18:54 -!- confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:19:00 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:19:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-224-145.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:08 puchacz: it's good to use debug especially in early phases when you are testing, then if things go wrong you can pinpoint them with the stepper 20:21:08 zort-: I think I was confusing with LOAD :) you're right 20:22:22 thx 20:24:17 -!- denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:46 -!- guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.186.146] has left #lisp 20:25:31 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:25:33 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:37 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:27:18 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:28:39 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-212-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:29:05 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.119.83] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:29:54 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 20:32:52 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:58 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.171] has joined #lisp 20:34:21 chturne [~charles@host86-128-227-101.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:14 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:38:18 Hunden [~Hunden@e180098005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:54 I wonder how many are 'closet' lisp programmers. In my current job, everyone knows that I use CL even though it's not the standard. I even convinced a few of the bosses to add it to the 'repertoire'. 20:40:49 francogrex: It's kind of funny...at my current position, the two people noted as lispers had already left when I showed up. 20:40:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:25 redline6561_: do you have an idea why they had left? 20:43:14 they won the lottery! 20:43:52 *sshirokov* left to write lisp 20:43:56 francogrex: I think they were just more interested in work elsewhere. 20:43:58 Right./ 20:44:38 In reality, though, I left because one of the dudes there was, to put it politely, sub-optimally performing his duties. 20:44:48 ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has joined #lisp 20:44:52 francogrex: We're basically writing a glorified CMS here. There is more interesting work to be had. 20:44:59 The "I get to write lisp" came after 20:45:12 work sucks 20:45:13 sshirokov: I have been amazed at some of those stories btw. 20:45:35 a hellish prison due to the artificial scarcity created by capitalism 20:45:36 sshirokov: Far as I can tell there's no one like that left. Except me maybe. ;) 20:47:24 HumanRemains: Let the workers unite and seize control of the means of production that are cruelly dangled before them by the fat-cats enslaving the worker in the bindings of wage-slavery! 20:47:42 yes! 20:48:12 in the future: rent w/out equity and labor without equity w/be outlawed 20:48:25 *redline6561_* wants to know more about "natural non-scarcity" / "natural abundance" 20:48:51 Wait. This is #lisp. That's OT! ... where's Xach et al when I need them... 20:48:54 Together, by each according to their ability for each according to their need we will build a people's paradise, a true workers party of equal living. 20:49:04 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:49:18 Simple models are simple... 20:49:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@219.Red-83-39-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:49:56 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-49-6-99.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:50:36 well communism and capitalism are both top-down authoritarian systems that benefit a few... but i will say 2 things: it turns out "communism / command capitalism" (china model) is beating capitalist economies, and a world with 90% capitalist economies is just as evolutionarily stable as a world with 90% communist economies 20:50:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionarily_stable_strategy -- evolution is more like rock, paper, scissors than "the best wins" 20:51:23 xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:39 discussing lisp jobs every once in a while is not to be considered a taboo. Lispers need to talk to each other about job opportunities, it's a way to help the community 20:53:26 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:53:28 would cuba be impoverished if 90% of economies were communist (as opposed to current situation where its potential trade partners are capitalist)... majority wins 20:55:14 you see it in haiti (as documented by the recent wikileaks). US govt and trade groups with companies like hanes and fruit of the loom pressured haiti to *lower* the minimum wage (they already has the lowest wage anywhere in the world).. and US pressured them to refuse aid and a deal for cheap oil from venezeula 20:55:28 -!- symbole [d1bfab0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.191.171.11] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:57:05 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:57 HumanRemains: although we respect your opinion, it maybe going a tad off topic there... 20:59:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:00:14 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-20-32-147.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:23 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87fbfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:00:58 "topics are a false bourgeois construct" 21:02:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:00 tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 21:04:28 the CONSumist revolution is nigh! 21:04:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.211.82.253] has quit [Client Quit] 21:04:48 xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:51 soon all ATOMS shall be EQ, bonded in the great LIST 21:05:08 and... errr... 21:05:12 *anvandare* ran out :( 21:06:33 the seal of the soviet union is 2 parentheses.. http://files.myopera.com/Don_Rumato/blog/gerb.jpg 21:06:37 seems fairly lispy 21:06:41 The fixnums will rise up against their unbounded masters? 21:06:49 (made of wheat) 21:07:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:28 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:46 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC0512C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:15 of course the soviet union was evil beyond belief.. on par w/the US or the 3rd reich 21:12:49 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 21:14:13 peterhil [~peterhil@hoasnet-ff04dd00-56.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:17:31 xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:32 clpython is amazing really. I'm experimenting with Mixed-syntax Lisp/Python mode; kudos to the developers! 21:21:30 It sounds like a really cool idea 21:21:45 Does it handle scope better? 21:21:52 I will celebrate mightily if it's ever as fast/compatible as PyPy 21:21:55 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:22:08 To fix scoping in python is to break python :( 21:22:08 sellout- [~Adium@ALagny-751-1-2-90.w86-218.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:22:32 xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:35 sshirokov: Yeah, might be a lost cause. 21:23:15 sshirokov: it's worth a try really: http://common-lisp.net/project/clpython/manual.html 21:23:32 francogrex: It's on my list. 21:23:45 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d069c9e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 21:23:53 -!- homie [~root@xdsl-78-35-143-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12] 21:25:44 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@62.57.174.62.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:33:16 xan_ [~xan@36.Red-83-39-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:02 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:37:40 psilord [~psilord@76.201.159.108] has joined #lisp 21:38:04 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.201.159.108] has left #lisp 21:39:09 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-169-203.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:28 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:41:06 ISF [~ivan@201.82.135.204] has joined #lisp 21:41:12 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-170-20.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:41:23 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:42:23 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:02 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Be back later] 21:46:37 some guys are missing for some time (like stassats, nyef etc) I hope they're fine, on vacation... 21:46:55 francogrex: Me too. 21:47:20 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:47:21 I still see stassats around. It's certainly been a while since I saw nyef. Or froydnj for that matter. 21:49:48 I wonder where drewc has been. 21:49:58 I haven't seen him in ages. 21:51:06 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 21:51:11 people burn out IRC 21:51:17 *on 21:51:32 it's also summer holiday in some places 21:51:39 yeah I haven't had sufficient enough reason to email him. 21:51:48 True. 21:52:10 I've at least seen some of drewc's stuff pop up on github though. 21:52:23 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634389.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:52:31 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:48 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.187.62] has joined #lisp 21:56:53 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633705.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:59:51 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-ftzfnpknxnbvryih] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:00:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-27-85.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Now for some sleep.] 22:00:21 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.187.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:00:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:22 denebola [~denebola@S0106001966a61521.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:56 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:10:28 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:10:30 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:10:35 irc = vortex of hell 22:14:26 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 22:16:07 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.187.62] has joined #lisp 22:16:28 bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:39 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:21:40 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-52-214.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:08 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:11 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:34:33 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.187.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:36:22 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:43 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:42:01 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.187.62] has joined #lisp 22:42:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@46.207.255.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:47:24 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:03 confab [180a3cb9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.10.60.185] has joined #lisp 22:50:18 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.187.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:51:49 -!- legumbre [~user@ec2-174-129-82-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:25 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-129.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:55 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:28 TeMPOraL` [~user@cpc12-oxfd18-2-0-cust64.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:58:51 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@cpc12-oxfd18-2-0-cust64.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:59:58 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:00:03 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 23:00:58 -!- TeMPOraL` [~user@cpc12-oxfd18-2-0-cust64.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:17 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 23:12:29 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:13:21 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:49 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:16:14 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 23:17:13 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:17:52 zardoz8 [~xenon@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 23:20:21 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 23:21:50 hello. probably a long shot but is there a portable library that can take a screenshot and then do basic manipulation on it (cropping etc)? 23:22:21 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-212-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:02 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 23:30:47 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-207-34.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:42 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:09 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.42.42] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 23:40:20 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.187.62] has joined #lisp 23:40:47 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 23:41:33 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:44:11 zardoz8: have a look at http://cliki.net there are libraries to access ImageMagick and stuff like that. 23:44:45 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.187.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:45:10 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:46:07 Jasko [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 23:49:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:50:01 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:50:01 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:51:57 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-196-35.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53:10 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.168] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:54:10 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-126-134.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:24 Jasko2 [~tjasko@64.211.82.253] has joined #lisp 23:55:25 -!- cracauer [~Adium@74.125.59.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:37 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.27] has joined #lisp 23:56:41 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.180.138] has joined #lisp