00:00:26 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 00:02:56 -!- fourier [~user@h-138-163.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:37 -!- names [~jihad@68.225.103.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:22:31 dlowe [~dlowe@pool-108-7-150-15.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:27 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:26:18 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 00:26:44 zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:28:08 loke_ [~elias@bb121-6-175-58.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:28:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:25 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.240.138] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:30:41 -!- loke [~elias@bb121-6-70-100.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:34:37 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:41 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:42:02 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:45 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:50:12 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-154-230.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:19 nilboog [~null@unaffiliated/nilboog] has joined #lisp 00:53:26 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.2.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:55:37 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:56:15 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:04:35 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:42 cheezus [~Adium@206.248.160.123] has joined #lisp 01:08:54 naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-4-177.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:10:15 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:11:23 how to most elegantly replace substring with a string that may be of different size? 01:12:08 -!- cheezus [~Adium@206.248.160.123] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:12:20 cl-ppcre ;) 01:13:13 what function? I'm doing this many times btw 01:13:22 in a single string 01:13:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:34 (apropos "REPLACE" "CL-PPCRE" t) 01:16:07 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-235.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:33 if you want to do it yourself, the easiest way is with with-output-to-string to incrementally build the result, or some equivalent code that manipulate vectors directly. 01:18:09 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-133-102.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:04 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:00 razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has joined #lisp 01:21:06 hi lispers 01:21:09 I'm drunk 01:22:22 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@pC19F39F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:51 hi lispers 01:24:03 razieliyo: 'ello 01:24:20 I'd like to say that lisp has opened a few windows inside me 01:24:37 and that I've read lot's of logs here 01:24:53 that makes me think lots about programming 01:25:07 I'm gonna keep here because I love this channel 01:25:12 please don't ban me 01:25:21 I'm gonna drink a little more 01:25:25 thanks! 01:25:30 I love you, lispersç 01:25:43 cool 01:25:47 wait wait wait 01:25:50 ç? 01:25:59 Brazilian keyboard? 01:26:01 no 01:26:03 spanish one 01:26:05 I'm spanish 01:26:10 from the south 01:26:13 we're like beasts 01:26:25 we still make fire twith stones 01:26:36 take that =D 01:27:00 sorry 01:27:16 but I'd like that tomorrow you do like if I'm not gonna be here 01:27:16 que? 01:27:19 what 01:27:21 español 01:27:22 julius2 [~julius@unaffiliated/julius2] has joined #lisp 01:27:23 capullo 01:27:33 yo soy andaluz 01:27:48 well 01:27:49 thanks 01:27:51 about all 01:27:52 bye 01:28:03 adiós 01:28:46 bye 01:29:27 -!- razieliyo [~user@unaffiliated/razieliyo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-sqrqjraznfbzasxe] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:34:00 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has joined #lisp 01:34:30 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:52 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has joined #lisp 01:40:22 -!- nilboog [~null@unaffiliated/nilboog] has left #lisp 01:43:06 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.41.224] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:43:52 cheezus [~Adium@206-248-160-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:50 -!- sharkasgo is now known as FreedomBurrito 01:49:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:44 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:50:47 how to iterate over a flat list two elements at a time? '(1 2 3 4 ...) -> first (1 2) then (2 3) etc 01:50:57 -!- FreedomBurrito is now known as sharkasgo 01:51:53 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.99] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:52:20 was hoping loop can do it, but (loop for (a b) in list would work only if I had '((1 2) (3 4) ..) 01:55:13 kennyd: (loop for (a b) in '(1 2 3 4) by #'cddr ...) 01:55:15 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:56:43 -!- cheezus [~Adium@206-248-160-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:56:56 dlowe: *on. 01:57:04 oops. thanks. 01:58:33 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:58:57 nice 02:01:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:05 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:04:36 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@pool-108-7-150-15.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:05:29 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483BF04.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:01 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BEC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:09:16 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:26 -!- symbole [~user@50-56-28-56.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:29 (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) (princ ..) (princ ..)) <- are there any potential issues in doing this when building a string? other than not being able to print to stdout in that block 02:16:32 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.18.168] has joined #lisp 02:18:46 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-194-86.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:53 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-52-235.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:24:55 Cloud_ [~cbp@189.247.164.87] has joined #lisp 02:25:13 -!- Cloud_ is now known as cesarbp 02:31:02 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:31 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 02:36:35 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 02:36:39 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:42:58 vlion [~user@64.126.142.148] has joined #lisp 02:45:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-71-202-151-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:11 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:18 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 02:48:06 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:40 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2C5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:00 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 02:55:41 cafesofi_ [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:55:57 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:59 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:21 el-maxo_ [~max@p5790FCF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:57 -!- zmv is now known as nerdshark 03:02:01 -!- nerdshark is now known as zmv 03:05:18 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8EDCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:07:05 joekarma [~joekarma@S01060026f3e2a647.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:17 -!- Soulman [~knute@101.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 03:12:38 j999 [~landers@cpe-98-154-54-248.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:13:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:13:22 -!- j999 [~landers@cpe-98-154-54-248.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:15:39 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:16:43 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:48 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:57 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:14 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:33:15 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:33:57 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:25 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:35:20 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:37 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-71-202-151-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:41:35 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:43:04 -!- vlion [~user@64.126.142.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:07 vlion [~user@64.126.142.148] has joined #lisp 03:49:04 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-74-67-199-254.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:50:02 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-108-81-171-51.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:08 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.214.43] has joined #lisp 03:50:39 Hi all! 03:50:41 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:53:51 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95315ce.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:55:29 hi 03:56:07 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-63-71.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:41 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-194-86.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:59:17 penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has joined #lisp 04:00:12 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-71-202-151-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:06:03 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-71-202-151-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:08:55 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-108-81-171-51.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 04:13:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:17 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:22 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:54 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22EC7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:28:09 -!- penryu [~tanuki@unaffiliated/penryu] has left #lisp 04:38:46 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-188-107-193-144.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:33 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:52:56 -!- vlion [~user@64.126.142.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:00:53 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 05:01:53 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:04:12 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.18.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 05:04:25 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.18.168] has joined #lisp 05:07:14 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.18.168] has quit [Client Quit] 05:08:05 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:51 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.18.168] has joined #lisp 05:09:06 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 05:10:21 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:58 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has joined #lisp 05:15:04 joshmc [~josh@c-98-248-16-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:33 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:15 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:22:08 -!- cafesofi_ [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:45 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:32 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 05:36:23 StephenDaed [6f45f3de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.69.243.222] has joined #lisp 05:39:10 -!- joshmc [~josh@c-98-248-16-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:39:51 Page 113, I have arrived at IF ! 05:40:09 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 05:40:38 hello. just got told about #+ #- in another channel. how do they work? are they like C's #ifdef and #ifndef? 05:41:05 I would have used google but ti's useless on non-letters like these 05:41:49 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-182-44.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:36 I have only seen # used in sharp notation of circular lists so far, maybe in a few hundred pages I will know 05:43:00 :) 05:43:17 I've only seen them in array literals 05:43:33 shaggy-: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/sec_2-4-8-17.html 05:43:44 shaggy- (print #+sbcl 10 #+clisp 20) 05:43:54 will print 10 on sbcl, 20 on clisp 05:44:19 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has joined #lisp 05:45:48 cool thanks 05:45:57 Why is # called sharp and not hash? Isn't it a hash? 05:46:12 it's also a sharp sign 05:46:12 kennyd: and on other systems it will give you a wrong-number-of-arguments error 05:46:16 It has different names in different parts of the world. 05:46:16 can it be used to selectively call functions as well? 05:46:16 or an octothorpe. 05:46:23 I guess music is cool 05:46:25 pkhuong: actually, no 05:46:31 kpreid: close enough ;) 05:46:33 kpreid correct ;) 05:47:01 is a sharp sign; it has a distinct shape from the # 05:47:14 ahhhh mind=blown 05:47:14 # only qualifies as an asciified sharp 05:47:31 this is a pretty nifty feature. can it be used to selectively call functions as well? if you needed to call different function on different compiler 05:47:45 shaggy-: #+/#- let you conditionalie READing. What happens to the form returned by READ is quite another issue, but it could be a form that ends up as a function call 05:47:46 It looks quote different from a sharp on my computer, it looks like a hollow rectangle. 05:48:15 You're lacking some Unicode support, then. 05:48:47 *s-expression returned by READ, actually. 05:49:00 so #+sbcl (function)? I can't check now 05:49:09 sure. 05:49:18 ok 05:49:25 No, just a monospaced font that both looks good and has decent number of non-latin-1 glyphs. 05:50:02 can you add a custom "feature expression" like #define foo in C 05:50:05 joshe: good systems these days font-switch as needed :-) 05:50:13 That works too. 05:50:17 shaggy-: yes. Please, read the spec. 05:51:02 kpreid: tell that to the xterm maintainers ;) 05:51:30 joshe: let go of the past1 05:51:43 (kpreid: don't let go of the shift key) 05:52:34 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb121-6-175-58.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:53:13 tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:53:29 do all the compilers define #+ ? 05:53:42 loke [~elias@bb121-6-175-58.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 05:54:35 You can check *features* on a given implementation. 05:54:55 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54:57 The standard defines certain symbols which should be in *FEATURES*, implementations and some packages will add more. 05:55:17 Check the standard and the docs for the implementations you are interested in. 05:55:19 what I mean is, can you distinguish all popular compilers using this ? 05:56:00 You should check the documentation for all popular compilers. 05:56:26 or I can just ask in here :) 05:57:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-242.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:58:37 You may not have a high success rate asking questions with well-documented answers. You might have better luck asking about approaches to a specific problem. 05:59:27 you think it's more reasonable to check documentation for dozen different compilers than to ask in here? 05:59:56 shaggy-: why would you want to specialize your program for a dozen different lisp implementations without knowing anything else about them? 06:00:22 I'm asking because I'm curious not because I have some specific problem in mind now 06:00:52 most lisp code doesn't use #+ stuff except for occasional special cases 06:01:08 and a lot of the cases where you used to need to can be handled by compatibility-layer libraries these days 06:01:12 You would probably learn many interesting things about those implementations by reading their docs. 06:01:27 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-172-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:01:35 I have always found it interesting to read about how they all interpret and extend the standard. 06:02:01 Why are lisp compilers written in C+ ? (I have no programming background) 06:02:07 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:02:11 they aren't 06:02:26 I'm sure I've seen at least one that said it was 06:02:40 well, most aren't, and the ones that are have reason to :) 06:02:40 Maybe not 06:05:03 StephenDaed one of the most popular ones (SBCL) is written in lisp 06:06:00 shaggy-: have a look at http://www.cliki.net/features 06:06:24 nice thanks 06:06:35 Notice that: (print #+sbcl 10 #+clisp 20) is not conforming: it is a program-error on all other implementations. 06:06:49 (print #+sbcl 10 #+clisp 20 #-(or sbcl clisp) 30) ; is conforming. 06:07:10 StephenDaed: C+ is a language? 06:07:44 C++ is post increment, the language is therefore less than C. 06:07:54 ha ha 06:08:09 My understanding is that most repl kernels are written in a near-metal language, and then the rest of the repl is implemented in the language 06:08:26 StephenDaed: most lisp compilers are written in Lisp, even those for implementations that are mostly written in C! 06:08:42 I don't know of any lisp compiler not written in lisp. 06:09:14 what percentage is written in lisp? 06:09:19 usually 06:09:33 It is well possible I was mistaken 06:10:14 clisp is written mostly in C (like, 50-75%). The other implementations are written mostly in lisp (like 90-95%). 06:10:18 find /path/to/a/impl | grep *.lisp ; find /path/to/a/impl/ | grep *.(c|h) 06:10:34 pjb interesting 06:12:43 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has joined #lisp 06:13:19 There's XCL which is written in C++. And there are some smal student lisp implementations that are written in C or C++, eg. lisp500.c (but it has also 500 lines of lisp "library", so even lisp500 is no more than 50% C). 06:14:11 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:34 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:59 one thing i was wondering about. how can lisp be compiled when it has eval function? 06:15:29 But even the XCL compiler is written in lisp. 06:15:37 shaggy-: it has both. 06:15:47 JIT compilers 06:16:00 JIT as in java? compiles to byte code? 06:16:01 shaggy-: further eval can be implemented as: (defun eval (form) (funcall (compile nil (list 'lambda '() form)))) 06:16:16 (eg. in sbcl, this is basically what it does). 06:16:29 just in time compilers. you can hot swap interpreted code and machine code if you know what you are doing. 06:16:33 JIT is orthogonal to the target processor. 06:16:36 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:04 It is not clear to me exactly where I am after double clicking on my CLISP icon 06:17:16 On MS-Windows? 06:17:17 I can say lispy things and get answers 06:17:20 yes 06:17:27 You should get a terminal window connected to CLISP. 06:17:38 yes that is what I have 06:17:50 Information trickles out. 06:17:51 This is the REPL: Read Eval Print Loop. 06:17:54 I guess that is the answer 06:17:59 cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-18b97779.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:06 Basically: (loop (print (eval (read)))) ; with some added features. 06:18:06 It is different to writing a program, is it? 06:18:13 StephenDaed: no. 06:18:22 the repl is usually used to test snippets of code as you are developing 06:18:59 You store your code in a file and load some or all of it into the repl with an editor. the repl also makes for a good calculator if you are so inclined 06:19:06 In Lisp, there's no clear separation of read-time, compilation-time, macro expansion time, load-time, or run-time. 06:19:24 That is, there's a clear distinction, but you can switch from one to another at any time. 06:19:54 I sort-of understand, thankyou 06:20:16 StephenDaed: that said, it's better to use emacs as a front end to clisp, so that you can easily edit your source in emacs, and load them in clisp without leaving emacs. 06:20:52 Get it from ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/windows/ 06:20:57 I also have lispinabox which uses emacs I think 06:21:10 emacs + slime works great. you get repl in emacs buffer 06:21:19 Good. (but lispinabox is old and unmaintainted AFAIK.). 06:21:19 slime is a wonderful thing. your source file can be treated as a repl of sorts. 06:21:20 There is a command to eval a given form in lisp with emacs/slime. 06:22:45 So I should make CLISP work with Emacs/SLIME somehow? Also my brother (who knows many languages but not lisp) says he normally finds notepad++ hands down better. 06:23:18 Emacs&Slime are the best free ide for lisp currently out there. 06:23:26 agreed 06:23:53 the reasons are long and varied, but basically boil down to, "everyone uses it, so it stays updated and working" 06:24:18 Can I somehow appropriate the emacs/slime that came with lispinabox for clisp, or do I need to download them again 06:24:47 what version of emacs & what version of clisp? 06:25:05 CLISP 2.49 06:25:16 emacs tells you version on startup typically 06:26:08 Emacs 23.2.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7601) 06:26:32 that is pretty recent, you probably don't need to worry about upgrading for another year 06:26:36 try typing M-x slime 06:27:24 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@80-218-247-218.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:29:18 slime-20110205.092829 06:29:26 So, seems recent 06:29:37 have CL-USER> ? 06:30:36 Oh, yes 06:30:49 Somehow I was opening emacs independently of lispinabox before 06:30:56 it works then 06:31:47 try this for fun. (format nil "~R" (expt 2 64)) 06:32:28 I will stick to doing what this book is telling me for the moment I think 06:32:47 PCL? 06:32:57 (Practical Common Lisp) ? 06:33:03 No, um 06:33:31 Common Lisp: A gentle introduction to symbolic computation 06:33:43 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:34:16 Ah. Havn't studied that one. Heard of it though. 06:34:34 I'm on second chapter of PCL 06:35:07 PCL is a really good book, IMO. 06:35:15 I've recently graduated to the third chapter of this book, where you first start using the computer 06:35:30 I will certainly have a look after finishing this one 06:35:42 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:36:21 I have found Lisp to be the easiest to learn when working on a project. 06:37:15 Yes, I was wondering about that eventually, what sort of thing I could begin doing with LISP 06:37:24 could/should 06:37:40 I have a functional test executor written at work 06:38:14 At home, I have an encryption software in-progress, and I'm porting my thesis code to CL 06:38:39 StephenDaed: you can and should write all your programs and scripts in Common Lisp. 06:39:13 Yes, certainly. I am extremely new to programming, so that isn't hard. Unless you mean all my windows programs 06:39:20 Which sounds challenging 06:39:26 *vlion* laughs 06:39:37 Yeah, that would be 06:39:37 StephenDaed: it's easier than in C++. 06:39:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:39:54 what do you want to do with learning programming? what's your day job? 06:40:09 is CL your first language StephenDaed 06:40:17 yes 06:40:25 student (wildly unrelated) 06:40:50 major? 06:40:58 science 06:41:15 biology, specifically 06:41:30 Then I suggest implementing a predator-prey simulation. 06:41:44 Oh, yes, all those dinky little programs 06:42:02 hey, it's a starter, man. 06:42:03 that draw graphs, and look at DNA and things 06:42:07 that is a good idea 06:42:50 Common Lisp has a metric ton of libraries that do things. 06:43:15 msponge [~msponge@nat/google/x-kdgdbprsykwuyhve] has joined #lisp 06:43:21 You probably want to defer graphics until you have a good handle on how the logic works 06:43:36 Am I right in thinking libraries add to the primitive functions available? 06:43:52 yes, a few more chapters of this book at least 06:43:56 :P 06:44:08 Technically, no. 06:44:22 they add functions certainly, but i am not certain primitive is he right way to think about it. 06:44:33 Practically, they give you the means to call other people's code. 06:44:47 So, add functions as though I had made the functions, not add functions like / 06:44:53 Yea 06:45:00 gotcha 06:45:38 i don't really see the difference. honestly. 06:45:56 If I recall correctly, the true primitives in CL are the special forms: For what it's w 06:45:58 oops 06:46:03 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node59.html 06:46:25 I believe all of CL can be implemented with the special forms. 06:46:47 At least metalinguistically. 06:47:09 what about cons car and cdr? 06:47:23 (defun cons (a d) (lambda (s) (funcall s a d))) 06:47:34 pjb: fair enough. 06:47:46 that's cons? 06:47:52 Yes. 06:48:18 One of the key things about CL is that the special forms are not really distinguished as separate from macros or functions, unlike C. 06:48:20 (defun car (c) (funcall c (lambda (a d) a))) (defun cdr (c) (funcall c (lambda (a d) d))) 06:48:40 Indeed, an implementation can implement all the special forms as macros. 06:48:55 (and the macros as special forms if it still provides the macro function for code walkers). 06:49:04 that returns a function though, cons returns an object? 06:49:18 functions are objects in lisp. 06:49:21 Objects are functions. 06:49:27 =) 06:49:41 (closures and objects are dual) 06:49:42 I used wrong terminology then but 06:49:52 Okay, I am off. Thanks everyone. 06:50:03 (functionp your-cons) -> t; (functionp cons) -> nil 06:50:14 sorry 06:50:25 (functionp (your-cons 1 2)) -> t; (functionp (cons 1 2)) -> nil 06:50:27 -!- StephenDaed [6f45f3de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.69.243.222] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:50:36 This is an implementation detail. You can wrap things up so that functionp returns whatever you want. 06:50:55 true but that's just because functionp hasn't been correctly defined for that implementation of cons. 06:51:05 Abstractly, an object can be implemented with a function that has a closure. A closure can be implemented with an object. 06:51:51 I see, interesting 06:52:02 is cons really usually implemented as a lambda? 06:52:27 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has joined #lisp 06:52:48 shaggy-: perhaps not. We never know. 06:53:06 it could be a machine instruction. 06:53:39 http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg03277.html 06:57:43 I feel like implementing conses, lists and their supporting functions myself now with lambda 06:57:47 ;) 06:58:06 should be a good practice 06:58:17 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:59:27 a list would then be a lambda that closed over a lambda? 06:59:37 over a lambda.. 06:59:45 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.32.74] has joined #lisp 07:00:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:01:46 is that just being silly or it's how one could reasonably implement lists 07:02:43 a list is a series of conses 07:04:00 -!- MoALTz__ is now known as MoALTz 07:04:32 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-138-14.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:06:27 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:06:47 a list is simply nil or a cons cell who's cdr is a list. so that gives you listp. 07:08:10 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 07:08:26 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:09:17 (defun cons (a d) (lambda (s) (funcall s a d))) <- what is s in there? 07:09:31 global variable? 07:09:47 *vlion* was wondering that himself 07:09:48 it returns the lamda so it is an unbound variable. 07:10:02 oh 07:10:22 it's just an argument you can pass to returned lambda 07:10:45 so you see how the definition of car and cdr work. 07:10:51 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has joined #lisp 07:11:36 yes i get it now 07:12:59 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:13:39 not sure how you would implement consp though. 07:14:20 gotta add a type tag I bet 07:14:27 I guess you could push lambda's address to a hashtable or something 07:15:17 vlion's suggestion is better. since it has good locality. 07:15:30 how would you add a type tag 07:16:18 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:16:31 s in there is a continuation. 07:17:15 it need not be. 07:17:30 (funcall (cons 1 2) (lambda (a d) a)) -> 1 07:17:35 but yes. 07:17:36 shaggy: in the most general way, it'd be a symbol tht denoted what type your closure represeted 07:17:59 A link in a linked list is a pair of successor functions. 07:18:14 it is a continuation. 07:18:23 iley [~iley@2a00:f480:4:10c:219:e3ff:fe3a:e3f5] has joined #lisp 07:18:33 -!- iley [~iley@2a00:f480:4:10c:219:e3ff:fe3a:e3f5] has left #lisp 07:18:50 shaggy: In any way that your tagger can discriminate it. 07:19:03 *vlion* nods 07:19:06 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:19:54 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-26-254.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:21 Imagine (tag x) -> 'cons 07:20:26 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.95.111] has joined #lisp 07:20:33 It doesn't matter how tag operates, as long as it can give the right answer. 07:20:57 bsod1 [~sinan@188.58.153.128] has joined #lisp 07:21:05 It could look at a pointer value, or inspect a byte in the object, or look it up in a dictionary or ... 07:21:06 night all 07:21:15 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.95.111] has quit [Client Quit] 07:21:21 ... or know it by static type analysis. 07:21:49 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.95.111] has joined #lisp 07:22:19 ok. now that we have a cons, how can we implement a list? &rest feels kind of like cheating, but I guess I have to use it 07:22:21 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:23:02 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-46-199.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:03 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:25:09 (my-car (my-cdr (my-cdr (my-cons 1 (my-cons 2 (my-cons 3 nil)))))) => 3 07:25:12 :) 07:26:18 I don't get it though how &rest was implemented though? is it a language primitive? 07:27:16 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:00 would it be possible to write list function without the &rest 07:28:46 Yes. 07:28:50 Everything's possible. 07:29:06 how? 07:29:19 shaggy-: By implementing &rest in a meta-language. 07:29:39 ie. in lisp, since lisp is its own meta language. 07:31:06 wizardry. 07:32:44 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 07:37:01 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.159.163] has joined #lisp 07:40:33 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:40:33 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:40:33 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 07:41:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:33 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:43:33 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 07:43:33 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 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[~Katibe@212.174.109.55] has joined #lisp 09:07:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-1.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:16:42 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:22:57 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:39 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 09:26:47 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 09:27:19 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Client Quit] 09:31:54 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-63-71.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:32:29 daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-155-39.w109-211.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:35:29 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.208] has joined #lisp 09:37:44 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-108-81-171-51.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:00 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:44:50 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-247-49.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:56 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:49:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:50:21 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:47 hello 09:57:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:07 Vinnipeg [~zaytsev_k@PPPoE-78-29-116-58.san.ru] has joined #lisp 09:58:53 Kenjin: hello 10:01:33 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:01:52 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:26 schmrkc: Hi. I can't seem to understand how to inspect variables on running code 10:02:46 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.165.208] has joined #lisp 10:02:59 schmrkc: is there any resources you could point me to. My google searches are not being very useful 10:03:33 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 10:04:07 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-43.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:05:53 Kenjin: I'm not sure what you're wanting to do. 10:07:11 schmrkc: I'd like to see the contents of some variables in my program during execution 10:08:22 Kenjin: I suppose you could put a break in your code and do some debugger magic that way. or just have some FORMAT statement wherever you want to get the info. 10:09:00 Kenjin: if you're asking about a gdb style lifestyle then I have not a clue and it seems to be sadly lacking. 10:09:46 (of course the break will stop execution= 10:09:48 ) 10:09:59 schmrkc: I've set some breaks and but don't know how to inspect my variables from the debugger, if possible at all. 10:10:03 ignas [~ignas@78.63.105.97] has joined #lisp 10:10:57 oho 10:11:04 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.252.103] has joined #lisp 10:11:09 what lisp are you using? 10:12:31 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:12:34 sbcl 10:12:51 Kenjin: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Variable-Access 10:13:10 Kenjin: also you might have to set a high debug policy 10:13:18 schmrkc: awsome. thanks ;) 10:14:01 Kenjin: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Debugger-Policy-Control 10:14:05 Kenjin: well best of luck anyhoo :) 10:16:36 schmrkc: many thanks 10:17:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:18:33 -!- Bahman [~bahman@2.144.252.103] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 10:24:03 bsod1 [~sinan@188.58.153.13] has joined #lisp 10:24:18 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@188.58.153.13] has left #lisp 10:24:46 Bahman [~bahman@2.144.252.103] has joined #lisp 10:26:00 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:06 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 10:26:38 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:30:38 fiveop 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[~jingtaozf@123.120.37.158] has joined #lisp 13:29:19 littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has joined #lisp 13:35:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:35:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:35:57 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:38:16 dlowe [~dlowe@pool-108-7-150-15.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:41 hi 13:42:47 please is there anyone using gsll? 13:42:48 thanks 13:43:30 rainyrhy [~rainyrhy@bb220-255-83-118.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:47:31 MoALTz [~no@92.18.4.138] has joined #lisp 13:47:57 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:48:23 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:48:31 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:41 gmail was hacked.. 13:50:17 Their entire user database was screwed 13:50:57 Reference, please. 13:51:34 Zhivago: I need matrix type definition 13:51:48 Ok, and? 13:52:04 Just got it from a guy on #philosophy on Undernet 13:52:20 Zhivago: I don't know how define a matrix in gsll 13:53:21 :) 13:53:41 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755613.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:00 Zhivago: I need something in (gsll:invert-matrix a) 13:54:12 I've never used gsll. 13:54:44 ok 13:55:34 LemonLoaf [~marmalade@142.177.247.152] has joined #lisp 14:00:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:05 youguy [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has joined #lisp 14:01:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:01:26 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:02:11 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.A328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:02:26 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:03:23 hmm, it seems that one can't specialize on keyword arguments 14:04:24 that is, stuff like (defmethod my-function (arg-one arg-two &key (key-arg string)) ...) aren't acceptable 14:04:56 cutty [~cutty@aolclient-24-33-82-117.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:51 Key-arg and value not neccesairly string it is interpreted as a sexp 14:11:53 -!- cutty [~cutty@aolclient-24-33-82-117.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [] 14:12:27 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 14:14:16 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-58-169.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:15:11 -!- youguy [~youguy@90.170.20.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:49 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C970.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:53 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 14:19:26 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@123.120.37.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:43 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:39 tauntaun [~Crumpet@64.134.240.138] has joined #lisp 14:41:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 14:47:23 4/quit 14:47:32 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:50:04 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:55:45 youguy [~youguy@42.pool85-56-118.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 14:56:55 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:57:25 -!- youguy [~youguy@42.pool85-56-118.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:03 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:03:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:07:03 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:42 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 15:09:04 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:10:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-10.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:13:58 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.18.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 15:15:28 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 15:17:30 Greetings fellow lispers (and sundry bots)! 15:17:56 youguy_ [~youguy@42.pool85-56-118.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 15:17:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:18:02 pnq [~nick@ACA43881.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:13 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:18 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:19:32 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.165.208] has joined #lisp 15:19:42 We only have whitegoods bots here. 15:22:17 hi 15:22:32 is there anyone using gsll: I need to sum two matrix :) 15:22:59 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:23:06 Zhivago: "whitegoods" <-- ??? 15:23:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-213-10.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:25:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA43881.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:27:18 -!- youguy_ [~youguy@42.pool85-56-118.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:28:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:29:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:30:37 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.18.168] has joined #lisp 15:32:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:33:02 -!- finnrobi [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:58 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:37:51 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:53 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:11 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:42 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755613.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:54 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:44:28 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 15:44:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:45:39 sb-posix doesn't have select or poll? 15:45:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:00 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:47:10 StrmSrfr: there might be some version in SB-UNIX. You could copy paste the definition, as SB-UNIX is internal, and even submit a patch to include it in SB-POSIX. 15:47:35 there's a lot of things in posix, sb-posix only has what people have needed enough to patch it in. 15:47:35 hello. I have been implementing my own conses and lists and their supporting functions for fun. I was wondering if it would be possible to create print-object method for them, or would I have to wrap the implementation in CLOS? 15:48:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122920 15:49:10 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:49:13 print-object *is* CLOS. You might want to look into funcallable objects, that way you'll be able to dispatch on your objects and use them as functions. 15:49:26 well, I'm trying to implement the algorithm describe here: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=20734703 in a "supported" manner 15:49:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:49:58 StrmSrfr: sb-alien is very well supported. 15:50:06 if that can't be done, and sb-bsd-sockets isn't going to solve the problem for me, I think it would be a bug in one of the packages? 15:50:19 what can't be done? 15:50:22 I wanted to keep implementation simple, by just using lambdas. can't print-object be specialized for non-classes? I think I've read somewhere it can be 15:50:56 well, not to be overly dramatic, but, connecting to a remote host via TCP 15:50:57 shaggy-: CLOS methods can specialise on object identity. Otherwise, you could play with the pretty printer. 15:51:26 StrmSrfr: if you want select, you can copy the definition in sb-unix. 15:51:43 if you'd like to see if it sb-posix, the easiest way to ensure that is to submit a patch. 15:51:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 15:52:00 I'd rather it just connect instead of throwing on EINTR, but I can see how some people might want it to throw on EINTR 15:52:02 sb-posix and sb-unix are mostly a bunch of sb-alien declarations. 15:52:11 pnq [~nick@ACA257F4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:22 so you think select would be accepted into sb-posix? 15:52:44 so what should I use, print-method or pretty printer for this? 15:53:48 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:54:03 StrmSrfr: I don't see why not. 15:54:05 -!- longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:09 this whole thing is rather ridiculous 15:54:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:54:34 StrmSrfr: it's just history: nobody has cared enough for select in sb-posix to patch it in. 15:54:38 I suspect sbcl is generating the signals that are interrupting my connect call in the first place 15:54:47 StrmSrfr: probably. We use signals for GC. 15:55:11 shaggy-: I'd go with funcallable objects and print-object if you really want to go with your every is a function trip. 15:55:17 but it seems, at the moment, that there's no supported way to deal with said signals 15:55:30 if they arrive during a connect call 15:55:41 is there a set in CL? hashtable without a value 15:55:49 kennyd: nope. 15:56:12 StrmSrfr: I thought you were supposed to select on it? 15:56:35 kennyd: there are some set functions in the "conses" section of CLHS 15:57:07 kennyd: but of course they won't be as efficient as a hash table for large sets, and I'm guessing there's no guarantee you won't get duplicate items 15:57:24 yeah I'll stick with hashtables 15:57:39 kennyd: how many items do your sets have? 15:58:01 unspecified, depends on the input 15:58:03 pkhuong i wanted to avoid classes for this. would it be possible to push my lambda to a hash table, and then specialize print-object for lambdas that are in my hashtable? 15:58:53 You can have classes such that their instances are functions as well. But with the pretty-printed, you could look in a hash table to dispatch. 15:59:02 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 15:59:03 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 15:59:14 but not with print-object method? 15:59:17 longfin [~longfin@211.187.37.46] has joined #lisp 15:59:49 shaggy-: no. 16:00:37 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-40.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:01:13 pkhuong: apparently I'm to call select (or poll) on the fd of the socket if connect errors EINTR. But select and poll aren't in sb-posix which " is the supported interface for calling out to the operating system." And then after that call I have to do a few things. So I'm a little frustrated that I just want to do an HTTP get on a remote host and apparently there's no "supported" way to do this reliably. 16:01:35 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:01:39 od odd, thought I remembered you can do something like this. (defmethod print-object ((foo #'identify-foo))). and use this method so long as (identify-foo foo) returns t 16:02:26 now, perhaps I'm only having problems because some of the hosts I'm trying to pull from are down, but really, this is ridiculous 16:02:27 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 16:02:27 StrmSrfr: right, and it's just an oversight that nobody cared to include select or poll in sb-posix. 16:02:41 I probably confused it with something else, haven't gone deep into CLOS yet 16:02:51 pkhuong: ok, fair enough, but some oversight! 16:02:56 In the time you have taken to try and explain how frustrated you are, you could have easily copy/pasted their definition and hav gone on your merry way 16:03:09 and ith just a littlemore time, even submitted a patch that would have benefited others. 16:03:37 but until my patch is accepted I'll have to patch every sb-posix I come across 16:03:50 no. You can just copy the declaration in your own code. 16:04:02 also, there's the possibility that I'm totally wrong and there's actually a good way to do this 16:04:14 please tell me that's the case :/ 16:04:44