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[~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 08:00:04 I've extracted the problem with the "no debug information for frame" in sbcl: http://paste.lisp.org/+2MQP 08:00:09 Any help? 08:01:19 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:05:04 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:05:46 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:07:37 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-10.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:08:16 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-9.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:07 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-202.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:13 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-202.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 08:10:36 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:10:45 -!- Xantoz 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[~marcoalbe@bl4-155-124.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 08:40:30 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl4-155-124.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:41:08 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.22.230] has joined #lisp 08:42:28 flip214: well, obviously, the problem is in: (3n+1/2 nil) 08:42:43 Can't you infer the type of 3n+1/2 ? 08:42:58 pjb: my question is - why do I get "no debug information for frame"? 08:43:06 This is irrelevant. 08:43:40 No, it's not - for me. I specified debug 3, safety 3 - but don't see which function calls SB-KERNEL:TWO-ARG-= 08:43:53 But the answer is: because it's a frame from the REPL or the loader. 08:44:04 that this function (written by me) needs a numeric argument, is ok. 08:44:06 flip214: I told you to compile EVERYTHING with debug 3! 08:44:11 I did that 08:44:11 You didn't compile sbcl with debug 3! 08:44:32 (AFAIK, it might not be possible to compile sbcl with debug 3). 08:44:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aferxqoloisptsml] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:44:35 that's right ... but why is SBCLs function SB-KERNEL:TWO-ARG-= printed, but my own not? 08:45:02 THere was a nice graphical overview of the builtin types of common lisp listed on reddit a month or so ago. Does anyone quickly have a URL? 08:45:18 flip214: is the backtrace only two frame deep? 08:45:36 no, it's longer - above that I get some swank-frames and so on, but that's the top 08:45:46 and using (debug 3) I expected a name here 08:46:21 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.27.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47:45 http://paste.lisp.org/display/122785#1 08:48:21 flip214: I guess two-arg-= is open-coded, and it shadows your 3n+1/2 frame. 08:48:29 khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:48:52 and that means what, exactly? bug in sbcl? 08:49:32 That means that the frame with no debug information is the caller of (3n+1/2 nil). 08:49:59 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-210-213.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 08:50:09 the problem is that the stack frame was several levels deep - and I had to guess for some time where the problem is. 08:50:35 pjb: ok, because of the repl. but why is 3n+1/2 not listed?? 08:51:48 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 08:51:48 Again, I don't see how it can be a problem: if you call it from a function, the function that calls it appears clearly on the backtrace: http://paste.lisp.org/display/122785#2 08:52:21 I guess [the reason why why is 3n+1/2 not listed is] two-arg-= is open-coded, and it shadows your 3n+1/2 frame. 08:52:37 yes, but in my case the calling function was a LABELS generated by a macro ... 08:53:24 what I'd like to get at - why does SBCL show no information here? With (debug 3) I'd expected all the help it can give, and "= shadows a frame" is not a good answer, IMO 08:53:36 pjb: don't misunderstand me. I appreciate your time and effort! 08:53:54 Yes, but the answer to all your questions is always the same. 08:53:59 Do you know what open-coded means? 08:54:21 yes, ok. But I see a bit of a problem - what do I care what SBCL does internally? I'd like to get a full stack dump! 08:54:32 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl4-155-124.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 08:54:39 pjb: I think that means that it can be inlined, right? 08:54:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-202.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:54:57 Yes. 08:55:31 even gcc can show me "inline function from x.h, called by function y in z.c" 08:55:50 inlining is not a sufficient reason _not_ to show the caller in the stack dump, IMO 08:56:01 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-245-91.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:03 Well, actually disassembling 3n+1/2 shows it's not, it calls generic-= ; perhaps it's generic-= who doesn't establish a frame. 08:56:15 sword [~user@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:31 pjb: thank you very much! I'm a bit off, back later. 08:56:51 flip214: If you consider that not establishing a frame is not a sufficient reason not to show the caller int he stack dump, you should report a bug or at least a feature request... 08:58:16 Notice that sb-vm::generic-= is not a lisp function, but it's called from your function instead of (function =). So I stand on my explaination. 08:58:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:59:02 -!- wislin [~user@118.122.165.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:00 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:01:59 pjb: sorry, your first sentence had too many negatives. will try to think that through later. Thanks anyway! 09:03:48 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:09:31 -!- DrForr_ is now known as DrForr 09:10:57 Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has joined #lisp 09:19:52 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:24:25 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:25:34 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:27:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f42.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:11 how do you "execute" your grovel file with cffi-grovel? 09:32:29 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:32:36 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-202.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:35:14 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@gw249-1.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:40 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-183-74.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:38:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-168-202.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39:48 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-210-213.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:40:29 z0d: http://paste.lisp.org/+2MQQ 09:41:15 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:35 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-210-213.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:42:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:43:12 fe[nl]ix: what if you don't want to use ASDF? e.g. I want to test a grovel file 09:43:34 cffi-grovel:process-grovel-file 09:43:52 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-210-213.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:59 fe[nl]ix: thank you 09:51:00 -!- MoALTz 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longlene [~loong0@175.150.97.68] has joined #lisp 11:22:40 xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.65] has joined #lisp 11:23:02 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:42 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:53 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:32:01 sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:46 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:33:49 tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:41 Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:39:03 -!- _mo_ [~mo@112.207.189.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:40:58 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:40:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:41:59 -!- sykopomp [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:42:12 sykopomp` [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:16 -!- sykopomp` [~user@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:43:16 sykopomp` [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 11:43:31 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 11:45:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has joined #lisp 11:45:31 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@gw249-1.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:50:03 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 11:51:57 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:52:53 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.81.197.47] has joined #lisp 11:53:07 Hello 11:53:28 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:31 Is there a CL bitcoin client ("miner?") yet? 11:57:17 There is one written in javascript 11:57:50 Does that mean the "protocol" is fairly well documented? Is it "buried" in the behavior of th reference code? 11:58:05 zomgbie [~jesus@193.171.142.61] has joined #lisp 11:59:15 Second question: is there a cl framework for using OpenCL? 12:00:11 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:01:04 *|3b|* has thought about making one (bitcoin miner) but not really worth the effort since i only have nv hardware :/ 12:01:11 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:01:28 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:30 |3b|: don't you have a OpenCL lib? 12:01:30 <|3b|> mainly for something to do with opencl 12:01:39 <|3b|> yeah 12:01:44 thought so ;) 12:02:27 |3b|: have you released the opencl lib? 12:02:36 <|3b|> doesn't help that nv opencl drivers were pretty low quality last i tried, even aside from the low speed on hashing 12:02:39 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 12:02:58 cl-opencl-3b? 12:02:58 <_3b> https://github.com/3b/cl-opencl-3b 12:03:01 <_3b> right 12:03:05 Thanks. 12:03:16 urandom__ [~user@p548A3D2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:26 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:30 <_3b> someone else had something named cl-opencl, so didn't want to claim the name until i could say mine was 'complete' :) 12:03:39 Heh. 12:03:42 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:03:44 <_3b> don't think they did much with it though 12:03:51 *easyE* has to finish up that CFFI interface for ABCL apparently. 12:04:22 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:30 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-108-68-163-213.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:30 *_3b* never got cffi to run on abcl, needed some lib i couldn't figure out how to get working :/ 12:04:33 Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:04:36 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:04:51 |3b| I can help with that part if you ever want ... 12:04:59 (jna.jar probably...) 12:05:16 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:05:42 <_3b> could be, not something i'm worried about at the moment though 12:05:45 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-cjupqynkolbeerng] has joined #lisp 12:05:45 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-cjupqynkolbeerng] has quit [Changing host] 12:05:45 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:06:04 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:06:05 Although once I get ABCL incorporating Maven references, the part about referenceing Java libraries should be handled automagically . 12:06:12 |3b|: understood. 12:06:15 Life is short. 12:06:19 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:06:39 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.44.153.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:08:25 replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:08:46 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:10:09 <_3b> as far as bitcoin, my understanding is that basically you just talk HTTP to the local client, ask it for data to hash, try 2^32 hashes, and send 1 back if you find a good one 12:10:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@122.166.119.36] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:10:21 <_3b> otherwise ask for another and try again 12:13:06 _3b: Sounds simple enough. There must be another class of software that has a more "connected" topology so you can spread the "I found this hash" message faster than someone who dupes it. 12:13:18 *easyE* should go read the paper and implementation a bit. 12:13:28 dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has joined #lisp 12:14:05 <_3b> the way it works is that the hash you find includes a transaction giving you 50bc 12:14:09 MoALTz [~no@92.18.19.191] has joined #lisp 12:14:28 What if someone else signs that hash collision a swell? 12:14:33 <_3b> and since it makes up a new account to give it to, nobody can take it without finding the provate # off your machine 12:15:16 <_3b> if somebody else finds a valid hash at the same time, then it would have a transaction giving their new account 50bc 12:15:36 <_3b> and it would just be a matter of luck who actually gets their transaction into the official record from what i understand 12:15:58 -!- tshauck [~tshauck@99-109-59-35.lightspeed.mssnks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: tshauck] 12:16:32 _3b: I suppose it would depend on how many neighbors then agree as to who found the collision first. 12:16:59 Again, I should read things a bit rather than making it up as I go along. Thanks for the explanation, tho'. 12:17:21 xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.167.65] has joined #lisp 12:17:47 <_3b> way it works is that that when someone else finds a hash, they will include one of them, and the longest chain wins 12:18:25 -!- xxxyyy [~xyxu@222.68.167.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:01 <_3b> but yeah, reading the papers is probably better than going off my memories of reading it a while back :) 12:19:11 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vdempizobtiumauj] has left #lisp 12:20:38 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:56 fourier [~user@h-30-84.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 12:22:03 jingtao [~jingtaozf@114.248.165.95] has joined #lisp 12:23:26 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:23:50 -!- fourier [~user@h-30-84.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:54 fourier [~user@h-30-84.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 12:26:20 ramus [~ramus@99.23.131.200] has joined #lisp 12:26:48 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-108-68-163-213.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:27:07 pnq [~nick@ACA227F9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:12 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-192.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:31:31 silenius [~silenus@p4FC23DB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:38 maxigas [~user@mail.szervermegoldasok.hu] has joined #lisp 12:35:38 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:01 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:42 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:41:01 -!- longlene [~loong0@175.150.97.68] has left #lisp 12:42:27 Amadiro__ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:42:41 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:44:12 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:44:41 -!- Amadiro__ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Client Quit] 12:44:57 SuChek [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has joined #lisp 12:45:01 #/join sparkfun 12:45:16 sry 12:49:59 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@ANantes-556-1-326-23.w90-59.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 12:52:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:57:38 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:58:10 lusory [~bart@bb220-255-193-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:59:08 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 13:04:10 Damn. Installing TeX "by hand" has really gotten easier in the last twenty years ;! 13:05:03 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:05:48 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.131.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:06:46 yeah but using it hasn't 13:06:46 ramus [~ramus@99.23.131.200] has joined #lisp 13:07:35 JuanDaugherty: I dunno about that. This XeTeX stuff finally seems to provided reasonable typpographic control to those who wanted to go beyond Computer Modern. 13:08:17 And LyX is a somewhat impressive that at least gets one started quicly. 13:08:38 easyE: I feel like that should be XeTX or something. 13:08:41 yeah was gonna say LyX but still 13:10:06 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:43 the main thing is the initial orientation to the TeX world but then after that it's still ... je ne sais quoi 13:10:50 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:11:13 The Wikibooks on LaTeX sure helps with the basics. 13:11:41 It easily surpsasses the information available from Lamport's (sp?) book. 13:12:17 *JuanDaugherty* prefers those (Knuth's and Lamport's). 13:14:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-203-24.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:14:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-203-24.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:14:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:16:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:41 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@193.171.142.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:22:57 -!- jingtao [~jingtaozf@114.248.165.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:25 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:25:44 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-9.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:29:20 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has joined #lisp 13:31:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:32:14 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:19 its a wonderful day 13:33:24 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.131.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:33:38 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.121.82] has joined #lisp 13:34:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-203-24.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:34:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-203-24.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:34:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:34:16 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA227F9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:34:31 Is it true to say that the syntax for atoms and lists is the only syntax for lisp, apart from syntactic sugar? 13:34:57 Or are special operators syntax too? 13:35:41 Borbus: there's a bunch of syntax, actually 13:35:49 but mostly it's atoms and lists 13:36:01 It's all under the reader section in the clhs 13:36:30 tagae [~user@palenque.dhcp.info.ucl.ac.be] has joined #lisp 13:36:34 kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-16-233.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:43 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-9.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:59 ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-168-171.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:50 <_3b> isn't "atoms and list" everything? 13:38:21 For s-exps, yes. 13:39:30 <_3b> i mean fo CL... "atom: any object that is not a cons", and all cons are lists 13:39:41 <_3b> so not much left 13:39:46 Yes, but atom is about s-exps. 13:40:00 To distinguish between atoms and forms. 13:40:21 I recommend not using it elsewhere. 13:40:36 I thought an atom was a form? 13:40:40 <_3b> right, i think that my point was that it wasn't very useful here 13:41:23 Borbus: well, atom is something not divisible anymore 13:41:39 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-168-171.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:48 Oh ok, so some garbage is an atom that isn't a form? 13:42:05 <_3b> Borbus: the definition above was from the spec (glossary)... if it isn't a cons, it is an atom 13:43:11 #. doesn't evaluate to a form, yet it's part of the common lisp standard 13:43:31 <_3b> dlowe: looks like it does according to the glossary 13:43:42 <_3b> well, ir READs to, not 'evaluate's to 13:44:11 <_3b> form: any object meant to be evaluated 2. a sumbol, compound form, or self-evaluating object 13:44:21 <_3b> *symbol 13:44:29 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:34 *_3b* thinks we are getting a bit off the original question though 13:44:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:44:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:45:15 <_3b> the least configurable syntax in CL are symbols and numbers, pretty much everything else is reader macros 13:45:52 ramus [~ramus@adsl-108-68-168-230.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:05 <_3b> beyond those 2, you could probably manage with just lists, if you don't mind writing strings like (vector (code-char 123) ...) 13:46:16 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:57 <_3b> 'special forms' operate at a different level from surface syntax though 13:47:52 -!- greaver [~DCA@94.126.185.1] has left #lisp 13:48:19 Isn't there a proof by McCarthy for the minimum lisp? Does that include a minimum syntax? 13:48:21 <_3b> they are defined in terms of evaluation of symbols in lists, not in terms of sequences of characters 13:48:52 *_3b* doesn't know of any specific 'minimum lisp' unless you mean the lambda calculus 13:49:17 <_3b> lisp is usually defined in terms of lisp, not syntax 13:49:55 <_3b> you need some minimal set of special operators (but not a particular set, most of them can be implemented in terms of eachother) 13:50:15 Borbus: the original paper never included implementation 13:50:22 <_3b> which operate on something resembling an AST 13:50:24 Yeah I thought there were about 15 special operators that need to be provided 13:50:40 Borbus: then some student said "hey, if I implement eval in assembly, I implemented all of it" 13:50:48 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:48 <_3b> surface syntax with parens and quotes and such is just a convenience for creating that AST 13:51:02 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:20 <_3b> was it one of baker's papers with all the special ops in terms of eachother? 13:52:34 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:40 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.22.45] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 13:53:24 <_3b> Borbus: http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html 13:53:31 Yeah, but to create that AST in the first place you need some kind of syntax.. whether it's lists or dotted pairs, right? 13:53:48 <_3b> right, but that syntax is arbitrary 13:53:54 Yeah 13:54:09 Ok, that's what I though 13:54:57 SuChek_ [~SuChek@62-47-223-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:54:57 -!- SuChek_ [~SuChek@62-47-223-32.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Changing host] 13:54:58 SuChek_ [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has joined #lisp 13:55:05 I'm thinking of writing a presentation for teaching lisp to beginners 13:55:28 And I was going to introduce the CL syntax for atoms and lists then say "and that's it!" 13:55:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:56:17 <_3b> well, symbols, numbers, and lists is probably a reasonable starting set 13:57:01 fdb [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:02 I was going to say "names" instead of symbols, and that names are turned into a symbol 13:57:09 <_3b> you would probably also want strings 13:57:20 *_3b* would not say that 13:57:28 -!- felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has left #lisp 13:57:31 <_3b> 'symbol' is an important concept in lisp 13:57:37 -!- fdb [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has left #lisp 13:57:42 -!- SuChek [~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:57:50 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 13:58:11 <_3b> and as i said before, 'symbol' syntax is even more hard-coded into CL than lists syntax 13:59:50 -!- kunwon1 [~kunwon1@unaffiliated/kunwon1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:24 So I suppose talking about names and symbols separately would only be for implementing a reader? 14:00:51 <_3b> there is also the issue that many things are named by symbols 14:01:44 Yeah I suppose starting with symbols in the first place makes introducing packages less of an issue 14:01:49 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AE02.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:32 kunwon1 [~kunwon1@unaffiliated/kunwon1] has joined #lisp 14:02:59 Does anyone know of any free to use CL slidesets out there? 14:03:40 iwillig [~iwillig@2002:803b:2e10:0:224:d6ff:fe4a:a942] has joined #lisp 14:04:08 -!- Atomsk [ace4016@adsl-98-64-82-40.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 14:04:49 If not I might make some as a project to release under CC 14:06:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:08:07 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-149-130.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:09:38 zomgbie [~jesus@193.171.142.61] has joined #lisp 14:10:15 workthrick [~mathrick@emp.nat.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 14:10:57 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:35 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 14:18:28 -!- tagae [~user@palenque.dhcp.info.ucl.ac.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:18:44 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-243-40.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 14:20:15 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 14:20:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@193.171.142.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:24:35 xiaohao [79e89690@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.232.150.144] has joined #lisp 14:25:05 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@184.152.69.75] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:27:01 taiyallica [d8c385bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.195.133.189] has joined #lisp 14:29:19 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:32:45 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:10 fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-174-73.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:33:13 pnq [~nick@AC8260C5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:50 muhdick [~qle@74-92-196-145-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:11 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-243-40.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:38:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:11 mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:39:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:39:18 -!- spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has quit [Quit: ..] 14:45:44 zomgbie [~jesus@193.171.142.61] has joined #lisp 14:50:18 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:50:36 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@2002:803b:2e10:0:224:d6ff:fe4a:a942] has left #lisp 14:50:44 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-243-40.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 14:50:46 benny [~benny@i577A176A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:52:47 spurvewt [~fess@gate113.iba.by] has joined #lisp 14:53:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@193.171.142.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-37-16-233.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:54:00 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 14:54:37 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-243-40.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:59 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:55:49 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:12 -!- xiaohao [79e89690@gateway/web/freenode/ip.121.232.150.144] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:59:08 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 15:02:10 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:02:16 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 15:02:53 sellout- [~Adium@173-162-137-153-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:00 ziga [~ziga@stargate.fs.uni-lj.si] has joined #lisp 15:03:06 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@1807ds2-noe.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 15:06:48 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8260C5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:07:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:08:00 iwillig [~iwillig@2002:803b:2e10:0:224:d6ff:fe4a:a942] has joined #lisp 15:09:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:09:08 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@nat/google/x-zegvdcsrltibqbpz] has joined #lisp 15:10:21 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:10:51 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:56 Could someone explain why this case doesn't return the first clause? http://paste.lisp.org/+2MQW 15:11:40 <_3b> strings with same contents aren't EQL? 15:12:19 woops 15:12:44 jarmond [~jarmond@makkar.csc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:13:41 _3b: is the fact they need to be eql implied somewhere in the CLHS, i can't see it explicitly defined as so 15:13:42 _3b: what construct would make sense if more/less want a case for strings? just use cond? 15:13:44 -!- jarmond [~jarmond@makkar.csc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 15:14:08 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.121.185] has joined #lisp 15:15:18 <_3b> depends how many options there are. cond, find a string-case macro, index through a hash table (or interned symbols, which is effectively the same thing), etc 15:16:04 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:20 The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:37 Guthur: "same" is precisely defined in the CLHS. (as linked from "same" in the spec for CASE). 15:16:47 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:17:25 _3b: ok, sounds good. thank you. 15:17:44 pkhuong: ah, cheers 15:17:49 HG` [~HG@p579F7F96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:15 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:32 -!- fourier [~user@h-30-84.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:55 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 15:22:51 pnq [~nick@AC8101AF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:21 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:26:42 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 15:29:25 ilowhy [~ilowhy@14.96.199.67] has joined #lisp 15:31:18 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-242.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:51 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 15:32:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 15:32:51 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:33:17 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:34:38 -!- silenius [~silenus@p4FC23DB8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:08 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:38:04 pdlogan [~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:17 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 15:39:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:09 -!- ziga [~ziga@stargate.fs.uni-lj.si] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:23 -!- katesmith is now known as shamasgirl 15:46:46 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7F96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:47:03 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:50:46 kpreid [~kpreid@nat/google/x-mcrmzvghpojpeidu] has joined #lisp 15:50:47 -!- _krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:51:19 -!- ilowhy [~ilowhy@14.96.199.67] has quit [Quit: ilowhy] 15:51:29 antifuchs: boinkor's git daemon is down 15:51:34 anything convenient in CL for stripping null characters from the end of a string? 15:52:20 Guthur: string-trim 15:52:36 Guthur: string-right-trim, actually 15:52:56 fe[nl]ix: cool 15:53:02 ...cheers 15:53:25 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:54:00 Guthur: (string-right-trim '(#\Nul) (concatenate 'string "foo" (string #\Nul))) 15:55:10 I was just searching for the nul character 15:55:21 thanks again you saved my a pile of time 15:55:55 SBCL people: is call_into_lisp ever expected to be called recursively? 15:56:30 ie. if in the GDB backtrace I see call_into_lisp() ... call_into_lisp(), is it something that can happen legitimately, or a sign of a bug? 15:56:37 obviously that's FFI code 15:59:44 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:59:51 ljosa [~ljosa@gmdbc-c50.broadinstitute.org] has joined #lisp 16:00:06 callbacks. 16:00:45 pkhuong: aha, so just because it happens it doesn't mean the callback code is necessarily wrong 16:01:24 btw, why's there the first call_into_lisp on stack? 16:01:42 is it the SBCL bootstrapper calling the SBCL runtime proper? 16:01:59 xan_ [~xan@237.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:02:49 I'm seeing deadlocks in futex_wait that are reproducible across platform (ie. I got it on XP, debugging it on linux), and that means there's something systematically wrong with the lisp side 16:03:41 but when the deadlock happens, the execution never steps outside the foreign code 16:04:30 pkhuong: Your recent change to SBCL ... what is their high-level goal? Better dynamic extent handling? 16:04:59 -!- levi` is now known as levi 16:05:11 *workthrick* wonders if that could be another permutation of the 'ATK / GAIL with a11y enabled hangs non-C GTK+ bindings' one 16:06:20 workthrick: there's magic at the bottom of the stack. 16:06:32 pkhuong: yeah, it does look magical 16:07:25 reb: nyef introduced code to have gcc-style dynamic-extent closures that just look in the relevant stack frame. I added code to make that work with unboxed values as well. 16:08:21 enthymeme [~kraken@96.31.242.194] has joined #lisp 16:08:33 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08:40 My use case is lightweight closures for numerical code, because I want to play with task-stealing and cheap futures. 16:08:48 also, why is SBCL so drastically slower on win32? Loading anything, but in particular cl-gtk2 on win32 takes about 5x longer than on linux, in the same setting (so a VM running inside virtualbox) 16:09:27 fe[nl]ix: seems like my machine is down entirely. 16:09:31 I'll have to check what's going on 16:09:45 ilowhy [~ilowhy@14.96.156.94] has joined #lisp 16:09:45 :( 16:09:49 workthrick: no clue. 16:11:31 pkhuong: it seems that loading code takes the biggest hit, but plain compuational stuff also seems to suffer, and what I thought was due to cairo being much slower on win32 is actually SBCL being much slower, which'd explain why swapping out the different cairo backends didn't change the performance 16:12:16 -!- ilowhy [~ilowhy@14.96.156.94] has quit [Client Quit] 16:12:16 (I love lights-out management consoles) 16:12:30 pkhuong: could the generated code differ much between win32 and linux? I wouldn't expect the differences between two x86 backends to be that pronounced, even if the register allocation differs 16:13:41 I haven't used win32 in ages, never mind SBCL. I sincerely haven't got a clue. 16:15:09 who does win32 in SBCL, besides the russian ninja duo? 16:15:54 slyrus and somebody? 16:16:00 workthrick: I think lichtblau / _8david uses it 16:16:07 or rather, is doing work on it 16:16:11 check #sbcl also 16:16:49 fe[nl]ix: oh my, I think the HDD is finally giving up 16:17:13 workthrick, i.e. who is the "russian ninja duo"? 16:17:56 JuanDaugherty: Dmitry Kalyanov and Alexander... lemme check that 16:18:06 anton. 16:18:07 they're two guys working on win32 threads and IO 16:18:13 antifuchs: right, that 16:18:18 loke [~elias@bb121-6-164-13.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 16:18:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:18:31 Kovalenko? 16:18:40 ah 16:18:43 yes, I think that's him. 16:20:24 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:45 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-vninarlgoqrzdzzg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:34 <_8david> I'm not looking into performance yet. 16:23:36 <_8david> Does your app involve I/O though? 16:24:30 fe[nl]ix: ok, it's pinging again. I think it's for me to salvage as much as possible (: 16:24:46 -!- Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:27 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h45n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 16:26:04 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:24 Buganini [~buganini@2001:288:c237:0:dead:beef:cafe:babe] has joined #lisp 16:26:40 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:28:53 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:30:42 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:34:38 _8david: loading fasls obviously does. The other part (plotting) doesn't though, and I'm seeing a ~5x or so slowdown there too 16:35:31 sabalaba [~sabalaba@75-101-62-95.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:46 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@2002:803b:2e10:0:224:d6ff:fe4a:a942] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:56 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@70-36-146-70.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:12 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-223-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:40:09 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:40:22 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 16:41:04 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:41:55 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8101AF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:45:12 _8david: actually, I could give you the installer for the app that's doing that. It's technically not open source, but I doubt you're going to steal my awesome lipidomics MS processing code :) 16:47:05 elbeardmorez [~elbeardmo@78-86-149-244.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:48:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:51:15 #lisp, can you recommend this Lisp novice a good LISP implementation? (please be as opinionated as possible so I can see your viewpoint on it) 16:51:29 I've heard a lot of good things about SBCL... 16:51:44 -!- gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:51:51 taiyallica: What platform are you running it on? 16:52:05 GNU/Linux 16:52:06 64 bit 16:52:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:52:35 taiyallica: cools. One benefit with sbcl is that it seems to be the most popular one in #lisp so it easy to get implementation specific support for it. 16:52:58 gozoner [~ebg@ip68-6-68-92.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:01 taiyallica: (also I don't think anyone will recommend anything else) 16:53:23 I was trying to use CLISP just because I figured it was the "canonical" one at first 16:53:40 canonical? 16:54:10 taiyallica: If you're just wanting one for learning lisp then clisp is just fine too. 16:54:10 yes, I thought it was the canonical LISP implementation 16:54:19 schmrkc: okay, maybe I'll stick with that 16:54:25 taiyallica: ah as in CL for Common Lisp? 16:54:29 akimbo [~akimbo@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:54:35 that's the assumption I had made. 16:55:32 taiyallica: Personally I find the clisp debugger confuses the heck out of me. 16:55:41 HG` [~HG@p579F7F96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:36 slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-204-74.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:59 taiyallica: you are not the first one to fall into this "trap" 16:57:32 taiyallica: also I have the idea that clisp is not as well working with SLIME as sbcl is. 16:57:52 I don't use SLIME (yet) 16:57:59 I still have yet to learn emacs 16:58:07 I generally use pico/nano to do whatever I need to do 16:58:13 oof 16:58:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:42 not using SLIME makes it harder to really discover the cozyness of lisp, imo. 16:59:02 (or one of the commercial IDEs I guess) 16:59:09 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has left #lisp 16:59:42 iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-46-31.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:59:43 re. sbcl windows performance. unwind-protect is IIRC much more extensive on windows, due to SEH interop 16:59:57 expensive, not extensive... 17:00:02 taiyallica: and emacs really isn't rocket science. You type text and hit control everynow and then .) 17:01:15 -!- xxxyyy1 [~xyxu@222.68.167.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:37 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 17:05:19 -!- shamasgirl is now known as katesmith 17:08:36 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:11:28 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@nat/google/x-dgbryrgaleuduvcy] has joined #lisp 17:13:05 -!- khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:12 odraude [~nobody@200.226.123.253] has joined #lisp 17:13:16 -!- odraude [~nobody@200.226.123.253] has left #lisp 17:13:52 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:34 NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:34 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:34 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has joined #lisp 17:26:13 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-jjeqwreakghticlk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:27:50 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:28:35 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:44 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:55 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.121.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:31:11 bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:53 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:41 tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:14 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.freeshell.org] has joined #lisp 17:39:31 MoALTz_ [~no@92.18.73.94] has joined #lisp 17:40:22 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:22 *z1l0g* surveys the Land of Lisp 17:41:53 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.19.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:15 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[~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:02:53 zpavlas [~zsirc@ip-89-103-7-232.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:03:09 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@188.58.176.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:03:26 -!- zpavlas [~zsirc@ip-89-103-7-232.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #lisp 18:04:17 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 18:06:26 jarmond [~jarmond@makkar.csc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:06:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:07:06 sellout- [~Adium@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:07 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 18:11:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:59 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:16:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@237.56.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:18:11 xan_ [~xan@20.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:19:12 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:19:23 bsod1 [~sinan@31.141.117.26] has joined #lisp 18:19:55 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl8-14-219.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:58 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-126-167.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:20:13 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl8-14-219.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:20:22 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl8-14-219.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:39 davazp [~user@89.Red-83-57-176.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:02 -!- joshmc [~josh@c-98-248-16-132.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:25:17 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:25:54 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 18:26:24 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw256114.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:13 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH 18:31:24 -!- jarmond [~jarmond@makkar.csc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:32:07 timor [~timor@port-92-195-93-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:33:38 lisppaste is broken 18:34:15 but anyway, http://pastebin.com/nH7biSj6 18:34:40 debugging this took me some 4h, including deep-level poking at SBCL guts 18:35:08 sbclites: shouldn't this be caught in some level? I mean SBCL locks up in the kernel here 18:35:45 might be because it's executed in a callback from foreign code in a thread, but it still shouldn't result in uninterruptible lockup 18:36:09 (the bug being of course that I used MAPCAN on something I did NOT intend to mutate) 18:36:15 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0090.fh-trier.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:44 varjag [~eugene@186.170.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:38:23 I can't test the paste, apart from confirming that it's likely to result in a circular list somewhere. 18:38:33 yep 18:39:04 pkhuong: I'll try to produce the smaller test that can lock up as hard 18:39:08 *smallest 18:39:29 Check *print-circle* as well. 18:39:46 or some other way to ensure you're not trying to print a circular structure 18:40:09 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.123.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40:18 pkhuong: it's NIL, but I'm not printing it 18:40:34 I'm just somehow traversing it without ever popping into the consing land 18:40:34 the backtrace or debugger could be. 18:40:41 ah, hmm 18:40:59 pkhuong: shouldn't they rebind it? 18:41:11 they usually do. 18:42:57 -!- The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:43:20 The_Fellow [~The_Fello@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@20.57.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:53:52 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:55:09 pnq [~nick@ACA37252.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:36 cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.164.87] has joined #lisp 18:58:07 Indecipherable [~IceChat7@41.30.174.229] has joined #lisp 18:58:14 -!- varjag [~eugene@186.170.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:59:15 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-149-188.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:31 hey 19:00:07 I'm having some problems understanding the concept of macros. lol. Can somebody help me? 19:00:09 -!- cbp [~cesarbol9@189.247.164.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:00:20 What don't you understand? 19:01:46 basically: lisp code has a linked-list representation, and macros use that as its arguments instead of having them evaluated first 19:01:51 Macros.... The difference between them and functions 19:02:00 oh... 19:02:09 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.18.73.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:02:17 varjag [~eugene@186.170.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:02:34 Indecipherable: macros are functions that generate code 19:02:46 and that code is compiled instead of the original macro invocation forms 19:03:33 pretty similar to C macros but without the same restrictions 19:06:14 I see... Not that I know C XD 19:06:20 But thanks 19:08:00 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 19:13:08 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl14-81-10.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:13:56 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-109-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:37 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-4.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:17:31 pkhuong: Thanks for the explanation of your recent changes. 19:17:32 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host81-152-185-252.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:17:39 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:45 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nc-184-3-67-31.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:26:16 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-67.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:26:24 kruth [~chatzilla@c-98-250-238-12.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:27 -!- Tordek_ is now known as Tordek 19:26:31 on the subject of trying to explain what a macro is would it be terribly wrong to say it is some thing like an compiled html template (on steroids)... like old style asp? 19:27:01 well, it could be described as templating, yeah 19:28:20 ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:28:27 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA37252.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:40 it's funny...people have laughed at me for wanting to generate C from scripts for lack of flexible macros, but those same people do things like that with autoconf etc. 19:28:45 Harag: aside from bad connotations, yes 19:29:02 workthrick: lol 19:29:42 hey you could do some freaky stuff in old style asp ;) 19:29:43 it's a serious concern, never underestimate the power of people to miss the details because of stereotypes 19:30:07 Harag: and how's the new-style ASP different? 19:30:19 to much structure 19:31:36 workthrick: yeah well i am sure there are better templating examples that asp 19:31:49 weeeell, you can do things with C-style macros, and even more so with m4, that you "can't" do with Lisp ones because you're exploiting the fact it forces you to produce well-formed sexps 19:32:02 Harag: just "templating" is enough I think 19:34:37 kewl, then you hope the person asking knows what templating is and has good "reference expierce"...hehe...i think I will leave it to others to try and explain macros... ;) 19:37:01 whatever happened to CLON/proton? 19:37:42 add^_ [~add^_^@h45n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:42 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-4.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:39:49 fourier [~user@h-1-88.A176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:39:53 ewanas1 [~ewanas@89.211.205.169] has joined #lisp 19:40:12 -!- Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:17 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:42:26 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:29 -!- ewanas [~ewanas@178.152.121.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:43:32 -!- koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:39 sausages_ [~sausages@173.255.244.187] has joined #lisp 19:45:57 -!- ewanas1 [~ewanas@89.211.205.169] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:46:01 -!- sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:50:26 HG`` [~HG@p579F7704.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:28 koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has joined #lisp 19:53:43 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7F96.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:46 -!- elliottcable is now known as ec|detached 19:57:21 -!- ec|detached is now known as elliottcable 19:58:21 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:59:14 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:32 CrazyEddy [~velvetlik@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 20:02:12 -!- elliottcable is now known as elliottcabal 20:02:42 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:59 stis [~stis@host-90-239-48-167.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:01 francogrex [~user@109.130.0.152] has joined #lisp 20:13:41 I didn't know this before: within a loop, only "prin"t prints each iteration in a timely manner in the repl (princ and format wait until the end of the last iteration to spit their output out all at once) 20:13:50 "print" 20:14:37 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:14:37 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 20:14:38 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:14:39 -!- ljosa [~ljosa@gmdbc-c50.broadinstitute.org] has quit [Quit: ljosa] 20:17:48 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:59 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:05 francogrex: Unix box? What you're seeing is called buffered I/O. 20:24:24 Are you running Lisp from a shell or with Slime? 20:24:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@186.170.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:26:21 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-40.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:28:06 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-9.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:28:30 varjag [~eugene@186.170.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:29:35 -!- tauntaun [~Crumpet@ool-44c711b3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:33:02 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@31.141.117.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:35:01 reb: from emacs on windows 20:35:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:35:34 -!- bugQ [~bug@c-71-195-206-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:38:21 Hey 20:39:00 -!- Indecipherable [~IceChat7@41.30.174.229] has left #lisp 20:40:15 hi 20:40:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:22 tin machine -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/122811 20:41:00 this is the real song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNw45DYfAlM 20:41:03 :) lol 20:41:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-177-212-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:58 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:46:21 -!- elliottcabal is now known as elliottcable 20:47:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:47:12 Posterdati: good song, but when you start making songs for a programming language, maybe it's time to review whether you need to go out there and get a real life 20:47:21 macrocat [~marmalade@99.192.100.153] has joined #lisp 20:48:11 francogrex: unfortunately this is my sole job now! 20:48:19 tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has joined #lisp 20:49:04 well at least you have a job. I might not keep mine for long... I accidentally fucked my boss today 20:49:59 francogrex: you were unlucky... I could not fuck anyone today... I was at a lattice conference on their products :( 20:50:01 :) 20:50:24 felideon [~felideon@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:35 francogrex: there are day to fuck boss and days to go to conferences on fpgas 20:51:06 -!- taiyallica [d8c385bd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.195.133.189] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:51:22 francogrex: anyway what's the purpose of fucking your boss^ 20:51:24 ? 20:51:49 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:52:15 it wasn't done on purpose 20:52:45 francogrex: ah an impulse? 20:52:46 well, there's always other lisp jobs. 20:52:57 specially if you care to move down to Florida. 20:53:32 sykopomp: did they use Lisp in Florida? 20:54:01 Posterdati: there's positions available where I work. 20:54:11 sykopomp: wow 20:54:20 sykopomp: please explain 20:54:52 Posterdati: http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/even-more-lisp-developers-mcna-dental-ft-lauderdale-fl/ 20:54:54 https://lispjobs.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/even-more-lisp-developers-mcna-dental-ft-lauderdale-fl/ 20:54:58 felideon: cures you 20:55:00 curse* 20:55:08 :) 20:55:09 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:07 sykopomp: :) 20:56:10 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:56:13 sykopomp, felideon: thanks 21:00:36 -!- akimbo [~akimbo@cpe-024-163-093-204.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:03 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-32-176.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 21:03:09 I really like lisp but not to the extent that I would move to florida for it 21:03:37 yeah, it's hell down here 21:03:53 I sure miss 10' of snow. 21:04:26 Funny, I left Florida a few years ago for California.. now I miss the heat 21:04:51 shoveling driveways was my favorite pastime 21:05:17 I'm sure there is a study out there that says working in cold weather is better for productivity... 21:06:44 I hate it when it's sunny, wife and kids started nagging they want to go to the park, to the pool... can't get anything done 21:07:18 wow 21:07:27 pointy-haired boss would be proud 21:07:32 anyway OT 21:08:44 so to come back to T... what's then is the difference with print, princ and buffered output as I explained above? 21:11:14 print inserts a new-line before printing, which would force line-buffering to be flushed 21:11:33 though, i haven't seen what you explained above 21:11:48 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:30 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:13:10 stassats: what i had written: "within a loop, only "print" prints each iteration in a timely manner in the repl (princ and format wait until the end of the last iteration to spit their output out all at once)" 21:13:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:42 yes, what i said applies to this 21:14:02 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:14:06 yes 21:14:13 xan_ [~xan@94.Red-193-152-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:33 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 21:16:54 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:17:27 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.freeshell.org] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 21:21:20 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:42 -!- iwillig [~iwillig@dyn-128-59-46-31.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:35 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-FDAAE900.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: gz] 21:22:37 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:56 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:27:20 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-174-73.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:59 To have effective line buffering, you need a line-based device. Do you use a line printer as output device? 21:31:24 I thought so. On a glass teletype, if you don't use force-output, there's no timely anything guaranteed. 21:31:34 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@vpnsh0090.fh-trier.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:31 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@155-dom-3.acn.waw.pl] has left #lisp 21:33:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-90.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:35 I am using the good old emacs' *inferior-lisp* 21:39:09 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:10 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:42:37 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 21:43:00 -!- kruth [~chatzilla@c-98-250-238-12.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 21:43:42 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-149-130.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:57 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:41 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ 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[~SuChek@unaffiliated/suchek] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:58:56 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.0.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:40 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:59:51 pnq [~nick@AC8256D9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:54 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:02 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 22:02:24 -!- ch077179 [~urs@xdsl-188-155-1-133.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:05:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.38.75] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:34 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-214-227-8.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:14 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:07:43 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:35 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:09:20 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:33 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h45n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:09:50 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 22:11:14 timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 22:13:02 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-109-243.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:14:12 -!- excelsior1979 [~excelsior@cpe-68-175-63-138.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:14:14 -!- stis [~stis@host-90-239-48-167.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:18 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:14:18 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-243-40.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:16:18 -!- varjag [~eugene@186.170.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:19:57 -!- timjstewart1 [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:30 -!- rdd 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22:44:09 naiv [~quassel@ARennes-652-1-90-211.w2-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:44:21 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:45:24 is there a with-slots alternative that binds slot values as a list? or do i pretty much have to do (with-slots (foo bar baz) (make-instance 'qux) (let ((slot-list (list foo bar baz))) (frob slot-list))) 22:46:48 thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 22:46:51 you can write your own thing 22:47:28 but i wouldn't expect it to be particularly useful 22:48:10 true. 22:48:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:22 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:40 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3D2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:30 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:45 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 23:03:42 Sorn 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[~patrick@174-25-37-137.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:37:23 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:44 -!- elbeardmorez [~elbeardmo@78-86-149-244.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:11 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-183-74.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:44:25 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-183-74.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:45:11 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:26 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:50:23 li666w [~li666w@221.212.176.54] has joined #lisp 23:53:18 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53:39 if I acquire a lock in bordeaux-threads under SBCL, will that pause all threads or just one? How about signaling a condition, does that delay some threads? 23:55:21 -!- davazp [~user@89.Red-83-57-176.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:55:53 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-98-113-194-183.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:00 -!- HG`` [~HG@p579F7704.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:57:44 a second SBCL-specific question is: when a thread needs to acquire a new set of free bytes, all threads are locked. Is there a way to raise the amount of bytes taken in each section? I'd like to lower the amount of time that the threads aren't working together 23:58:52 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]